Help! Mead Ranger 1936

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Wilfredo

Look Ma, No Hands!
Feb 16, 2020
76
57
00921
I have a situation that is like Odd.
This bike is totally different from the rest of the bikes.
I don’t know if use regular bicycle fenders and wide rims like normal 1936 Shwinn stile bike.
I am very confuse. Don’t know what to do. Or what to buy for this case.
Some one toll me that the bike is an oldes bike. But the serial number
C5 A 68481
One point. The information has question marks.
:(


B2790962-0E6C-4FB7-BD42-5AE78EB6D7FC.jpeg


A938AAB0-7E6D-41C1-BC24-15EFD51D9F3F.jpeg
 
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Archie Sturmer

I live for the CABE
Jun 13, 2018
1,433
Los Angeles, CA, USA
See the Westfield-built frame numbers thread.
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-frame-numbers-1933-1945.100743/
The seat post clamp area is another clue (notched pinch-bolt).

Also, a Westfield built bicycle is not a common Schwinn, (nor a classic Colson); but Westfield, the manufacturer, may have supplied bicycles to the Mead mail order catalog company, among many retailers.

Finding and fitting the right badge on a bike without any might be a challenging task, and especially when the holes are not vertical but horizontal.
 
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Wilfredo

Look Ma, No Hands!
Feb 16, 2020
76
57
00921
The only badge can fit on it is the circle mead Ranger. The bike came with a WINSOR crank. Not gothic arm.
I send the pi
See the Westfield-built frame numbers thread.
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-frame-numbers-1933-1945.100743/
The seat post clamp area is another clue (notched pinch-bolt).

Also, a Westfield built bicycle is not a common Schwinn, (nor a classic Colson); but Westfield, the manufacturer, may have supplied bicycles to the Mead mail order catalog company, among many retailers.

Finding and fitting the right badge on a bike without any might be a challenging task, and especially when the holes are not vertical but horizontal.
yes. They are horizontal way.
The only badge with the right mesure was Mead Ranger circle one and was a very hard chalenge.
It has 26” rims and I bough the 28” and still have almost 3” to fit the weels.

image.jpg


image.jpg


image.jpg
 

Mercian

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jul 1, 2016
698
53
France
Hi, @Wilfredo

I wrote the chart you have shown a section of.

The reason Mead Ranger has question marks is that the bike concerned also had no badge, but was ideantified as possibly a Mead Ranger.

The thread is here:


It's certainly a sister to your bike (the serial number is very close), so gives you an idea of what it looked like originally.

Best Regards,

Adrian
 

Archie Sturmer

I live for the CABE
Jun 13, 2018
1,433
Los Angeles, CA, USA
So it looks like you have a 1936-A Westfield built frame, very likely sold as a Mead Ranger bicycle. Fine for a refurbishment project.
Never heard of a gothic or non-gothic Windsor crank or sprocket, (but Mead may have had a Windsor labelled bike over 100 years ago); I do see that the crank is not painted black. The chain ring sprocket is a Fauber 3-arm, and has peculiar dimensions. If the crank fits the chain ring sprocket, then I would recommend keeping those parts together; (and maybe even using on this bike project). The racing green metallic paint is a sign that the bike has been refurbished before; (looks neatly done), and may not have some original parts, (e.g., Mead sprocket).
I would lean toward your bike being a 26” wheeled machine, although measurements are lacking. If a 26” - then modern Sunlite or Wald fenders might fit with minimal tweaking.
I have a 1932-K Westfield built Mead Ranger, and although it was the age of (non-super) 26" balloon tires, my 19” short frame fits 28” wheels.
http://www.nostalgic.net/1936-mead-ranger-ace-ad
1161228

I believe that later in 1936, Mead started to advertise the more streamlined style bikes.
 
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Wilfredo

Look Ma, No Hands!
Feb 16, 2020
76
57
00921
So it looks like you have a 1936 Westfield built frame, very likely sold as a Mead Ranger bicycle. Fine for a refurbishment project.
Never heard of a gothic or non-gothic Windsor crank or sprocket, (but Mead may have had a Windsor label bike over 100 years ago); I do see that the crank is not painted black. The chain ring sprocket is a Fauber 3-arm, and has peculiar dimensions. If the crank fits the chain ring sprocket, then I would recommend keeping those parts together; and maybe even using on this bike project. The green metallic paint is a sign that the bike has been refurbished before; (looks neatly done), and may not have some original parts, (e.g., Mead sprocket).
I would lean toward your bike being a 26” wheeled machine, although measurements are lacking. If a 26” then reproduction Sunlite or Wald fenders might fit with minimal tweaking.
I have a 1932-K Westfield built Mead Ranger, and although it was the age of (non-super) balloon tires, my 19” short frame fits 28” wheels.
Wow. Thanks
 

Mercian

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jul 1, 2016
698
53
France
Hi @Wilfredo

So, you have two opinions, a possibly pre 1933 possibly Coulson, or a 1936 Westfield.

It can't be both, so how to resolve it?

If you can supply pictures of the serial number on the bike, this will help. The makers used different fonts and layouts, and it should be possible to tell from that.

Best Regards,

Adrian
 
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Wilfredo

Look Ma, No Hands!
Feb 16, 2020
76
57
00921
Hi @Wilfredo

So, you have two opinions, a possibly pre 1933 possibly Coulson, or a 1936 Westfield.

It can't be both, so how to resolve it?

If you can supply pictures of the serial number on the bike, this will help. The makers used different fonts and layouts, and it should be possible to tell from that.

Best Regards,

Adrian
114635C3-C6A8-4805-8F54-26C31E8E6C36.jpeg
is onis almost the same number on the bottom. C5 A 684 _ _
 
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Wilfredo

Look Ma, No Hands!
Feb 16, 2020
76
57
00921
Hi @Wilfredo

So, you have two opinions, a possibly pre 1933 possibly Coulson, or a 1936 Westfield.

It can't be both, so how to resolve it?
I think the bike has the wrong crank.


If you can supply pictures of the serial number on the bike, this will help. The makers used different fonts and layouts, and it should be possible to tell from that.

Best Regards,

Adrian
AD399662-809A-4136-97FD-0E2883E81C3F.jpeg


AD399662-809A-4136-97FD-0E2883E81C3F.jpeg
 

Mercian

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jul 1, 2016
698
53
France
Hi @Wilfredo

thanks for the picture.

yes, there is no doubt at all that that is a Westfield made frame, dating from May 1936.

As I said, the frame number is very close to another bike which was identifed as a possible Mead Ranger, but never confirmed. Westfield, at this point, were making bukes for many different names, hardware stores, catalogue companies etc. so even if the numbers were sequential, it wouldn't be possible to say absolutely what model it was from just a frame (unless the head badge hole spacing was something unusual).

I agree, the Fauber ring and crank looks like it came off an earlier bike (again, these were popular, good quality items and used on a lot of early bike types).

I don't think you will ever know what it was originally, but you can build it up fairly easily as any of the Westfield models of the time (for example, an Elgin). If you want to do that, tell me here, and I'll see if I can find some good 1936 pictures of different models for you.

Best Regards,

Adrian
 
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Wilfredo

Look Ma, No Hands!
Feb 16, 2020
76
57
00921
Hi @Wilfredo

thanks for the picture.

yes, there is no doubt at all that that is a Westfield made frame, dating from May 1936.
Hi @Wilfredo

thanks for the picture.

yes, there is no doubt at all that that is a Westfield made frame, dating from May 1936.

As I said, the frame number is very close to another bike which was identifed as a possible Mead Ranger, but never confirmed. Westfield, at this point, were making bukes for many different names, hardware stores, catalogue companies etc. so even if the numbers were sequential, it wouldn't be possible to say absolutely what model it was from just a frame (unless the head badge hole spacing was something unusual).

I agree, the Fauber ring and crank looks like it came off an earlier bike (again, these were popular, good quality items and used on a lot of early bike types).

I don't think you will ever know what it was originally, but you can build it up fairly easily as any of the Westfield models of the time (for example, an Elgin). If you want to do that, tell me here, and I'll see if I can find some good 1936 pictures of different models for you.

Best Regards,

Adrian
member: 75221"]
Hi @Wilfredo

thanks for the picture.

yes, there is no doubt at all that that is a Westfield made frame, dating from May 1936.

As I said, the frame number is very close to another bike which was identifed as a possible Mead Ranger, but never confirmed. Westfield, at this point, were making bukes for many different names, hardware stores, catalogue companies etc. so even if the numbers were sequential, it wouldn't be possible to say absolutely what model it was from just a frame (unless the head badge hole spacing was something unusual).

I agree, the Fauber ring and crank looks like it came off an earlier bike (again, these were popular, good quality items and used on a lot of early bike types).

I don't think you will ever know what it was originally, but you can build it up fairly easily as any of the Westfield models of the time (for example, an Elgin). If you want to do that, tell me here, and I'll see if I can find some good 1936 pictures of different models for you.

Best Regards,

Adrian
Hi @Wilfredo

thanks for the picture.

yes, there is no doubt at all that that is a Westfield made frame, dating from May 1936.

As I said, the frame number is very close to another bike which was identifed as a possible Mead Ranger, but never confirmed. Westfield, at this point, were making bukes for many different names, hardware stores, catalogue companies etc. so even if the numbers were sequential, it wouldn't be possible to say absolutely what model it was from just a frame (unless the head badge hole spacing was something unusual).

I agree, the Fauber ring and crank looks like it came off an earlier bike (again, these were popular, good quality items and used on a lot of early bike types).

I don't think you will ever know what it was originally, but you can build it up fairly easily as any of the Westfield models of the time (for example, an Elgin). If you want to do that, tell me here, and I'll see if I can find some good 1936 pictures of different models for you.

Best Regards,

Adrian

As I said, the frame number is very close to another bike which was identifed as a possible Mead Ranger, but never confirmed. Westfield, at this point, were making bukes for many different names, hardware stores, catalogue companies etc. so even if the numbers were sequential, it wouldn't be possible to say absolutely what model it was from just a frame (unless the head badge hole spacing was something unusual).

I agree, the Fauber ring and crank looks like it came off an earlier bike (again, these were popular, good quality items and used on a lot of early bike types).

I don't think you will ever know what it was originally, but you can build it up fairly easily as any of the Westfield models of the time (for example, an Elgin). If you want to do that, tell me here, and I'll see if I can find some good 1936 pictures of different models for you.

Best Regards,

Adrian
[/QUOTE]

Thanks Adrian.
Yes. I am interest to find exactly a picture of this bike.
I have found some in eBay and have take pictures of them.
I am interest to make if like new. If I have to recrome, I will little by little. Even if I have to Crome some bolts, I will.
I have 2 types of light, the Indian and the Delta from those years. But the rack I have is older from Pope Indian and culson.
The rims are 1900 skip tooth with wood inside. I have spend 2 hours to sand it, even I got some throat infection. :)
The sit is Troxel restore. But the handlebar is a total rust, but with bund, I will make it like new. It has some holes, but I weld and fill them. Has the Torrington hole in one side. But the handle are ball handle.
The only 3 things missing are, 1. Handle post bolt pre war 2. Crank nut 3. Drop stand (I have the bolts to hold it) 3. Some links for skip tooth (I already bit in some extra links in eBay) 4. The original fork ( because I have not find the exactly picture of the bike, I want it to do some change till I find the pic)
Here is what I am interest in for now.

15F443AC-AC57-4927-A5A3-67CFEAD85959.png


B459FBE2-E992-4CBF-AD03-C4E201118EA0.png
 

Mercian

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jul 1, 2016
698
53
France
Hi @Wilfredo

The two bike pictures you show are later designs than yours. You can see how, in the pictures, the top two tubes are curved? On yours, the bottom tube is straight, and the top tube is straight, but with an angle near the saddle. This is the Motobike, or Motorbike type frame.

This is a 1936 advertisment for your bike new, yours is in the bottom left hand corner, only $22.95 cash (-:

1585499743460.png

Image: jpromo


Here's some links to 1936 Westfield made bikes with the same type of frame as yours.

Elgin https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/elgin.79920/#post-497479

Elgin https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1936-elgin-26-motobike.138833/

Elgin https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/elgin-help-identify.138776/

Elgin https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/prewar-elgin-find-year-have-serial-and-pics.5081/#post-23202

Elgin https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/what-is-this-bike.52994/#post-313230

I hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Adrian
 
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Archie Sturmer

I live for the CABE
Jun 13, 2018
1,433
Los Angeles, CA, USA
It looks like your "project" is starting with a mixture of parts.
In cases like these it is up to the Owner to decide which route to follow.
A refurbishment, but how much to refurb; a leave as-is or repaint, but which pieces to paint; which parts to re-use; which pieces to replace, and replace with what.
I figure that you are not planning on a 'restoration' of a catalog 1936 Mead bicycle (picture in post #6).

The frame is 1936-A Westfield, taller frame, likely for 26" balloon tires.
You indicate that the only badge to fit is Mead Ranger, so I presume that you have one and it fits.
Westfield did make bicycles for many others with the wide badge holes, (such as Shapleigh hardware stores).
1163821

If the bike came with a Mead badge, or if you have later obtained one that fits, then I would leave it at that.

The chain ring sprocket looks like a 1920's Great Western Manufacturing product from La Porte Indiana.
GWM would have been an earlier competitor with Westfield, before closing in the 1920's.
HP Snyder, another Westfield competitor acquired some assets from GWM, not sure if they continued to make Fauber sprockets; (may have sold Crown bicycles).
The Windsor bicycle in the old picture shows an earlier Fauber Chicago 3-arm sprocket; after about WW1, GWM made sprockets in Indiana.
The older sprocket shows the crank drive pin in a different location; the newer design moved the drive pin hole to one of the 3 arms, (not in between 2 arms).
Generally, I would not choose to use a Fauber - except for my GWM projects; (even though they look kind of cool).
The "gothic" crank on the other Mead bicycle thread is called a "diamond" crank, and the "mouse ears" sprocket is a Mead part.
Mead cranks and mouse ears sprockets come up from time to time, but some A&S folks may think that they are Schwinns, and cause speculative prices.

Below is a picture of my 1932-K Westfield built Mead Ranger project, although a short-frame 28" wheel version.
1163780

It shows again a Mead sprocket, as well as the general truss fork style of double bar drop frame models of the motorbike era.
Also, it depicts a shorter frame (like some of Adrian's linked pictures; and unlike the extra-tall Shapleigh). One way to measure the height of the frame is the conventional distance between the seat post clamp and the center of the bottom bracket; another is to observe how low the truss tube on the down tube (but might only be for style, not size); a third way is to measure the head tube. The truss tube on your frame is less than an inch from the head tube; and the head tube on your frame (which I may have referred to as tall or taller), looks more like an intermediate ~4+" head tube. When searching for a replacement 26" fork, be sure to keep that dimension in mind, (plus about 1.3" for the headset parts). The 1940's Snyder-Rollfast-Hawthorne style of springer fork looks nice, but is challenging to even assemble all together.

In the other thread, your photos of the Morrow hub with a "G" stamp may indicate a 1937 hub, but likely too that had been swapped out.
 
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Wilfredo

Look Ma, No Hands!
Feb 16, 2020
76
57
00921
It looks like your "project" is starting with a mixture of parts.
In cases like these it is up to the Owner to decide which route to follow.
A refurbishment, but how much to refurb; a leave as-is or repaint, but which pieces to paint; which parts to re-use; which pieces to replace, and replace with what.
I figure that you are not planning on a 'restoration' of a catalog 1936 Mead bicycle (picture in post #6).

The frame is 1936-A Westfield, taller frame, likely for 26" balloon tires.
You indicate that the only badge to fit is Mead Ranger, so I presume that you have one and it fits.
Westfield did make bicycles for many others with the wide badge holes, (such as Shapleigh hardware stores).
1163821

If the bike came with a Mead badge, or if you have later obtained one that fits, then I would leave it at that.

The chain ring sprocket looks like a 1920's Great Western Manufacturing product from La Porte Indiana.
GWM would have been an earlier competitor with Westfield, before closing in the 1920's.
HP Snyder, another Westfield competitor acquired some assets from GWM, not sure if they continued to make Fauber sprockets; (may have sold Crown bicycles).
The Windsor bicycle in the old picture shows an earlier Fauber Chicago 3-arm sprocket; after about WW1, GWM made sprockets in Indiana.
The older sprocket shows the crank drive pin in a different location; the newer design moved the drive pin hole to one of the 3 arms, (not in between 2 arms).
Generally, I would not choose to use a Fauber - except for my GWM projects; (even though they look kind of cool).
The "gothic" crank on the other Mead bicycle thread is called a "diamond" crank, and the "mouse ears" sprocket is a Mead part.
Mead cranks and mouse ears sprockets come up from time to time, but some A&S folks may think that they are Schwinns, and cause speculative prices.

Below is a picture of my 1932-K Westfield built Mead Ranger project, although a short-frame 28" wheel version.
1163780

It shows again a Mead sprocket, as well as the general truss fork style of double bar drop frame models of the motorbike era.
Also, it depicts a shorter frame (like some of Adrian's linked pictures; and unlike the extra-tall Shapleigh). One way to measure the height of the frame is the conventional distance between the seat post clamp and the center of the bottom bracket; another is to observe how low the truss tube on the down tube (but might only be for style, not size); a third way is to measure the head tube. The truss tube on your frame is less than an inch from the head tube; and the head tube on your frame (which I may have referred to as tall or taller), looks more like an intermediate ~4+" head tube. When searching for a replacement 26" fork, be sure to keep that dimension in mind, (plus about 1.3" for the headset parts). The 1940's Snyder-Rollfast-Hawthorne style of springer fork looks nice, but is challenging to even assemble all together.

In the other thread, your photos of the Morrow hub with a "G" stamp may indicate a 1937 hub, but likely too that had been swapped out.
Wow. So interesting story. Sense I was 26, I started to write about my ancestors, and Was very attentive to my grand parents.
My house is all antique, even I did all the work in it as retro. The kitchen is made like normal cabinets, but with blocks and tiles.
A full show of retro. Tiles designs, even the front door like from the 1800, old San Juan P.R.
Had old cars but now old bike.
Every one here is very interesting.
Let’s see how my protect will end.
My problem is that if is not look like better than new, I don’t like the project.
In the state there is not restoring with pain. Here in P. R. we like antique restore.
Yes, is a big different. Even my friend from here tell me, not to make it like new, then said, “ if you like it, do it”.
Later I will place a pic from this bike.
I thanks to every one for their bit of knowledge. :)
 
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