Hendee Mfg Co. / Indian Motocycle Co. Bicycles Information Thread

[Freqman1]

A huge thank you to the people who put this Indian bicycle thread together and keep adding to it. I appreciate the efforts to be true to history. Often not easy.

I've read everything up to this point, and I've not a whole to add, but one thing I noticed was that the Westfield attributes seemed to morph into Iver Johnson attributes in about 1923 for the rest of the 1920s. Note that post-1923 Indians have the IJ-type fork braces with mid-brace bars (tubes?) that rest against the fork blades. Prior to 1923 the forks have the Westfield-type flat mid-braces, integral to the middle plate of the fork crown. The top of the fork braces appear to be just as distinctive, Westfield- and Iver Johnson-specific.

My Indian appears to be a 51T or 71T or possibly a Model 32. It has a 21-inch frame of the "A" type (long head tube) and has the flat integral mid-braces. I've yet to find the serial number. It should be on the bottom of the bottom bracket, right?

Pic?

 

[Breezer]

Not the best photos, but hopefully enough to get across my point...

On the left is our ca1920 Indian deluxe apparently made by Westfield. On the right is a ca1930 Iver Johnson.
Left: The Indian has FLAT mid-braces integral to the fork crown that extend from the crown and loop around the main braces. The top of the braces are fastened to a TWIN-lobed plate affixed to the headset nut.
Right: The IverJ has ROUND mid-braces that extend from the main braces. The mid-braces only kiss the fork blades, they are not attached. Meanwhile above, the main braces merge together before being fastened to the SINGLE-lobed plate affixed to the headset nut.

Many makers used the Westfield design. I only know of Iver Johnson to use the other design.

The Indian catalogs from 1923 onward (to 1928 or so) shown on this thread's prior pages use the IverJ design. Also in these catalogs are shown lesser Indian frames with a design similar to Iver Johnson classic arched truss frame.

Perhaps by 1923 Westfield was out and Iver Johnson was in? This might coincide directly with Harley-Davidson bailing on their bicycle line, built by Iver Johnson.
Westfield was only 10 miles from Springfield, but IJ's Fitchburg was only 80 miles in the other direction.

Can anyone confirm or deny my theory?

 

[Freqman1]

IJ did not build the bikes for HD--Davis did. IJ stuff was more proprietary and had no link to Indian, HD, or any other brand. V/r Shawn

 

[Breezer]

What were the primary bicycle trade publications in the US during the 1920s?

 

[Breezer]

More pics of the bike.
Any idea what year it is?
I know the pedals are wrong. I do have some rubber pedals, but they don't say Indian.
Where might I find a serial number? I don't see one on the BB, but this is a repaint. Might need to do some digging.
Anyone have a photo of a s/n on an Indian BB, or GPS cooridinates?
--Joe

J

 

[Goldenindian]

1917-1923 Hendee badge. cool Indian.

 

[Breezer]

Two things:
1) Precisely where might I unearth the serial number? The paint job is nothing special, but I'd rather not carve it up too badly.
2) What is the real purpose of the split hanger? With ashtabula cranks snaking through the BB there's no way to slide out the crank with Indian's claim of not touching the bearing adjustment. The only advantage I see is minimal chain-line alignment, but there are easier ways to achieve that. Perhaps Indian was contemplating offering a two- or three-piece crank? Then their claim would fly. Still, adjusting the bearings will likely be less hassle than trying to slide out the inner cartridge. Maybe just a marketing thing? What am I failing to see?
Anyone have photos of the Indian BB guts and crank/spindle?

--Joe

 

[Freqman1]

@47jchiggins I’m thinking about 1918-22. I don’t have my notes with me or I may be able to narrow it down further. I’m surprised that you don’t see any numbers on the BB. Anything on the chain stays? This is a Westfield built bike. V/r Shawn

 

[Breezer]

Believe me, I've looked all over the outside of this bike. It's likely somewhere under the new paint. Anybody have a 1916-1922 Indian serial number photo?

BTW, in Post #243 (this page) I see that Indian refers to their split BB as a "two-piece hanger". In 1923 the up-charge from a one-piece hanger to two-piece hanger was $2.50. That's about $40 today. As a buyer, I think I would've been asking what's in it for me.

 

[Breezer]

IJ did not build the bikes for HD--Davis did. IJ stuff was more proprietary and had no link to Indian, HD, or any other brand. V/r Shawn

Maybe you know that Iver Johnson built Lovell Diamond bikes for his friend John Lovell, but that was a long time before, early 1890s.
I'd like to see how Huffman's 1920s Davis-built bike construction compared with Iver Johnson's. I never studied this brand, except in the occasional toss.
Perhaps the Indians from 1923-1929 or so were built by Davis?
--Joe