Hendee Mfg Co. / Indian Motocycle Co. Bicycles Information Thread


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fordsnake

I live for the CABE
May 12, 2010
1,796
450
Mark, have we've exhausted the history of the Indian and its importance, or can I post a picture of my bulldog? He's just as cute as this 1901 Pope built bike. Remember (to Shawn) Hendee contracted with Westfield (Pope) in 1915 not '16 (see my post #45).

I love the Pope springer fork, and it was introduced in 1910 (see below attachment)

Pope Springer.jpg



Here it is installed on an Indian with a Merkel Motor Wheel. Note; the bike is a Special Delivery with the black paint scheme and contrasting pins, it also sports the six spider chainring that was used on the Hedstrom prototype.

Indian Merkel 1.jpg
Indian Coil .png
Indian Merkel 5.jpg



Indian Merkel 2.jpg
Indian Merkel 3.jpg
 

Freqman1

Riding a '37 Dayton Super Streamline
Jul 14, 2009
15,042
14,758
Evans, GA
Mark, have we've exhausted the history of the Indian and its importance, or can I post a picture of my bulldog? He's just as cute as this 1901 Pope built bike. Remember (to Shawn) Hendee contracted with Westfield (Pope) in 1915 not '16 (see my post #45).

I love the Pope springer fork, and it was introduced in 1910 (see below attachment)

View attachment 715806


Here it is installed on an Indian with a Merkel Motor Wheel. Note; the bike is a Special Delivery with the black paint scheme and contrasting pins, it also sports the six spider chainring that was used on the Hedstrom prototype.

View attachment 715807 View attachment 715808 View attachment 715811


View attachment 715812 View attachment 715813

Carlton,
I use the '16 date as the production of bicycles. I was aware that they contracted in '15 but didn't think bicycle production actually started until the '16 model year. Do you contend there were '15 models? Re: the Pope post--this is what started to dilute the Flying Merkel thread//Dean I believe Carlton was referring to the off topic post (sarcasm). V/r Shawn
 

fordsnake

I live for the CABE
May 12, 2010
1,796
450
I'm not sure how you arrived at your conclusion that Westfield built early Indians...but for our edification please share your documentation (evidence) or pics of a 1901 Indian to compare? I'd love to have been a fly on the wall watching Augustus Pope and George Hendee battle over infringements and patents. LOL
 
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fordsnake

I live for the CABE
May 12, 2010
1,796
450
Mark, so let me try to understand…you’re eluding that the 1902 Indians were Westfield built?

Ok, let stick with this conjecture, I’ll concur the frame similarities…(even though, neither of us has ever seen a 1901-1902 Indian! So like your speculation, my agreement is pure superficial based without facts or merit! Perhaps one day in our lifetime we'll have the good fortune to actually see one up close! Regardless, lets look at the known facts we have:

Jobbers and suppliers were abundant during TOC.
Tubing Ads.jpg
The Crosby Co.jpg



Almost every bike manufacturer ordered their parts from a supplier then welded, polished, painted and assembled on site.
Hendee Taylor Shop.jpg




1” tubing (shown in your Pope pics) was not proprietary or an anomaly, but common. Early 1900 there was a trend to go to a smaller size tubing (for a lighter bike)…yet many makers proposed returning to the larger diameter for safety reasons.
1 inch Tubing.jpg
 
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redline1968

Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
Oct 16, 2008
4,698
2,975
Seattle, United States
In the early days Hendee raced bicycles and Col pope did too... so I’m thinking this was a long frendship developed through this and the reason why hendee selected pope for the bicycle Indian brand.. since they in 01-1902 focused on motorcycle building, hendee decited to subletting the bicycle building to pope which saves costs and maintain a long term friendship..
 

fordsnake

I live for the CABE
May 12, 2010
1,796
450
In the early days Hendee raced bicycles and Col pope did too... so I’m thinking this was a long frendship developed through this and the reason why hendee selected pope for the bicycle Indian brand.. since they in 01-1902 focused on motorcycle building, hendee decited to subletting the bicycle building to pope which saves costs and maintain a long term friendship..

Pope & Hendee .jpg


When dealing with history, it’s easy to make conjectures without documented evidence. There's an urge for us to want to fill in the blanks with OUR interpretation of what we think are possibilities. Sometimes these interpretations come from things that seem familiar or from what we've seen or what we've heard. We sometimes attempt to connect the dots that aren’t there, trying to make sense of a situation that never existed and unfortunately jumping to conclusions that are wrong.

Albert Augustus Pope was born in 1843 and George Mallory Hendee was born in 1866…that’s a 23-year age difference! Hendee; America's first national cycling champion, retired from competitive racing at 20 years old. I think we can conclude, the idea of Pope & Hendee ever competitively racing…never happened!

The closest Pope ever came to racing competitively was as a spectator.

We all know Albert A. Pope was a bicycle mogul, a conglomerate and a monopoly; controlling the supply chain of his products, in-house productions, mergers, acquisitions, and patent law suits, (A.B.C trust). And him later becoming a pioneer in the automotive industry…but he was never a racing competitor!

https://connecticuthistory.org/albert-augustus-pope-1843-1909/

If you have evidence that contradicts this fact…I (we) eagerly anticipate your response. We're here to learn.
 
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redline1968

Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
Oct 16, 2008
4,698
2,975
Seattle, United States
AA477C3B-673B-4061-BF62-24DEAC47B08C.jpeg
its a 1902...pope. your right ...I just realized I really don’t care.. nor wish to participate. It’s one of those subjects I prefer to let go and enjoy buying pope, Miami built bikes as I have been for many years and Let the paper freaks do their thing...lol
 
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Dan the bike man

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jan 10, 2013
2,346
4,426
Utica, MI, United States
View attachment 716657

When dealing with history, it’s easy to make conjectures without documented evidence. There's an urge for us to want to fill in the blanks with OUR interpretation of what we think are possibilities. Sometimes these interpretations come from things that seem familiar or from what we've seen or what we've heard. We sometimes attempt to connect the dots that aren’t there, trying to make sense of a situation that never existed and unfortunately jumping to conclusions that are wrong.

Albert Augustus Pope was born in 1843 and George Mallory Hendee was born in 1866…that’s a 23-year age difference! Hendee; America's first national cycling champion, retired from competitive racing at 20 years old. I think we can conclude, the idea of Pope & Hendee ever competitively racing…never happened!

The closest Pope ever came to racing competitively was as a spectator.

We all know Albert A. Pope was a bicycle mogul, a conglomerate and a monopoly; controlling the supply chain of his products, in-house productions, mergers, acquisitions, and patent law suits, (A.B.C trust). And him later becoming a pioneer in the automotive industry…but he was never a racing competitor!

https://connecticuthistory.org/albert-augustus-pope-1843-1909/

If you have evidence that contradicts this fact…I (we) eagerly anticipate your response. We're here to learn.
All of your posts are informative and well researched . Please keep them coming in the future!
 
Likes: hoofhearted

47jchiggins

I live for the CABE
Sep 15, 2013
1,211
1,535
Virginia Beach, 23451
For several months, I along with Shawn @Freqman1, have been trying to crack the Indian serial number code. A lot of time has gone into comparing different numbers to see if a pattern would emerge but we still need more proof. As an example, I have three serial numbers of known 1916 (script badged) Indians, ALL begin with the same letter and having the same font. This is important because there is a point in time where the font appears to change as does the letter sequence. There are several other serial numbers that have a beginning letter which appears to confirm the possibility of a patter and jives with known data found in catalogs and other printed information.
In order to confirm these findings, we would like your help. If you have or had an indian, please post your serial number or partial number (beginning letter and first few numbers) here or if you prefer to keep your information private, please pm me or Shawn @Freqman1. For those who have already provided information, thank you.
Todd
 
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corbettclassics

I live for the CABE
Feb 11, 2012
1,092
1,736
Burbank, United States
I haven't really been following this thread very much but, does it mean that the closest thing you could get to a factory racer by Indian ( 1901/02 ) is a Pope Columbia factory racer ??

I have a factory racer by Columbia 1902 Model 83 - so was just curious if there are close comparisons to the two. I believe it's the only one surviving as I've never seen another.
 

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