Id this race bike

[Billythekid]

So I scored a colnago for $100 last week and it has some Shimano parts since I decided it fits me and I’m gonna keep it I want all campagnolo parts to keep it true to it’s Italian heritage so I start looking for another bike that has all campagnolo parts to trade with the colnago I found this but the sellers didn’t know anything the Lady selling the bike said her husband was giving it by a friend and that he didn’t really care for bike riding

now I’m curious what brand of bike this is I found it has nervix lugs but that’s all I can find hopeing someone will recognize the triangle by the shifters or the diamond where the bottle cage mounts are any ideas

thanks for your time

 

[juvela]

-----

Hello Mr. Bonney and thank you for posting this puzzle

me first thought was that the frame might be a Peugeot PX-10E from the early early 1970's due to the combination of lug pattern, fork crown and seat stay treatment

alas, the dropouts with the threaded adjusters are wrong for that, unless of course they were changed by the person who performed all of the other modifications...

---

things you can do to help readers to help you -

a) verify tubing diameters: top tube will be either 26.0mm or 25.4mm, down and seat tubes will be either 28.0mm or 28.6mm, steerer will be either 25.0mm or 25.4mm

b) verify threading: steerer will be either 25.0mm X 1.0 or 25.4mm/1" X 24TPI; bottom bracket shell will be either 35.0mm X 1.0, 1 3/8" X 24TPI or 36.0mm X 24TPI (this is an easy one as bottom bracket cups are marked)

c) check shell width; it will be either 68mm (nominal) or 70mm

d) check saddle pillar diameter - it is likely written on the pillar so no need to measure, at least for starters...

e) check steerer for any markings

f) check frame for serial; you will want to do this in bright light as the present respray of Imron is pretty thick and may make the serial difficult to locate and/or read

g) what is the make of the frame ends? their flat faces should carry a marking

---

frame has been extensively reworked

some of the changes are obvious and some require a bit of educated guesswork

the top tube brake cable guides and the down tube water bottle bosses are obvious additions

the modifier had a spot of fun putting in the big fillet on the chain stay bridge - completely pointless - perchance they wished to practice their technique

there is a vestige of a fitting showing on the top of the shell on the non-drive side; this could be from an erstwhile cable guide or a lubrication fitting; whoever removed it did not bother to clean everything up

it appears to have begun life round about nineteen and seventy-three

-----

 

[all riders]

Possibly, The work that Juvela has pointed out (water bottle bosses just scream at you) was all done in the Eighties. The Look pedals, and the rear spacing forced from 120mm to 126mm. Also looks as though frame was built for earlier, longer reach brakes. I would agree with his date.

 

[juvela]

Possibly, The work that Juvela has pointed out (water bottle bosses just scream at you) was all done in the Eighties. The Look pedals, and the rear spacing forced from 120mm to 126mm. Also looks as though frame was built for earlier, longer reach brakes. I would agree with his date.

-----

thanks very much for sharing your observations

wrt rear spacing -

am keeping in mind the possibility that the 6V gear block we see may be something such as a Maeda Ultra 6, i.e. six in the space of five

wrt brake centres/reaches -

while we know that the centres on the Campag NGS calipers are 52mm and the travel limit is 56mm we cannot be sure of the cycle's present wheel size. seems reasonable to assume it designed for 700's but can see no evidence in photos to tell us if present diameters are 630 or 622. if wheel size changed to 27" it would of course shorten brake reaches by four mm.

struck by how the cycle's Campag NGS components: headset, chainset, brake set and hubs all issue from a road ensemble which launched in 1974

saddle pillar may be the cycle's latest bit...

unless we hear back from Mr. Bonney with further textual and/or photographic information we may need to let the inquiry go idle...

now if he were to discover a hardwood plug in the steerer that could sort matters in a hurry

-----

 

[Billythekid]

Here’s some pics didn’t see I got a response till now
I’ll try to find a caliper to measure tubing for you I’m intrigued it has custom work done to it I can tell you it rides awesome a little to small for me but still ride able thanks so much for showing interest I hope the serial number helps it’s on the left side drop out

 

[Billythekid]

So your opinions are to keep it together right?

 

[Billythekid]

No cork if this is what you ment

 

[juvela]

-----

thank you for the additional imagery and information

one clue revealed in the new pictures is that the chainstays are rapier pattern (no dimples), this screams British and frequently Raleigh as well

it fits right in with the narrow wedge-shaped no-slide pibb making a Tube Investments product a good candidate

one thing which would have been easy to check is the thread marking on the bottom bracket cups. if it is 1 3/8" X 24TPI this would be supportive of the tentative identification

a metal headplate would have been worn which was affixed with three fasteners. should you have occasion to repack the headset you would have an opportunity to examine the interior of the head tube to see if there are three holes which have been filled in prior to the current respray.

serial -

appears in photo to read 1321A

is this how it looks to your eye?

last character appears somewhat indistinct so it might be a number rather than a letter...or a letter other than an A

checked the Raleigh/Carlton serial archive and there are examples with this placement but not with this format

one clinker with a Raleigh/Carlton id is the crown - it does not fit in. if, for example, the faces on the fork ends bear a name other than that on the faces of the dropouts it would indicate that the fork is not original to the cycle and would keep open the possibility of a Raleigh/Carlton id.

-----

 

[Billythekid]

13214 is the serial number

Campagnolo rear dropouts
Tange t front fork

1.370x24 tpi campagnolo bottom bracket

 

[juvela]

-----

looking like it may have begun life as a Raleigh/Carlton International or Competition

---

in a way it is unfortunate that the paint finish is in such good condition

if it were kaput you could check spots such as the seat stays for removal of the centrepull bridge and the top tube for removal of the housing stops

traces of brass are likely to remain where these bits were removed

---

chain stay bridge -

the big fillets may have been done by the same person who performed the other post-manufacture torch work

suspect a crack appeared at the joint of the bridge and one of the stays

torch person puts it right with an unnecessarily large fillet, so then has a strikingly asymmetrical looking bridge and puts a similar fillet on the other side soley for appearance sake

---

wrt serial -

there is a Raleigh/Carlton serial guide & archive here in case you would wish to explore...

The Headbadge: Vintage Bicycle Resources

www.kurtkaminer.com

(scroll down)

-----