I'm Stuck - Requesting help on Elgin/Musselman rear Hub

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Buster1

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Oct 23, 2011
856
Las Vegas
So I received my replacement part (the grooved race) as the old one was totally shot.

Unless I have this wrong, I cannot get the bearing past that first ridge on the left. I assume the bearings roll in the wide deeper smooth groove just over or to the right the first ridge on the left. Does that make any sense? Anyone know if I have this right or wrong, and if there is a way to get the bearing cup pushed over the ridge?

Help!

IMG_4585-1.jpg

IMG_4584-1.jpg
 

Buster1

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Oct 23, 2011
856
Las Vegas
So force it over, then add the bearings?
 

Buster1

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Oct 23, 2011
856
Las Vegas
Are you sure? Seems really really tight.

I'm trusting you guys!
 

cyclingday

Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
Feb 24, 2008
7,747
Costa Mesa, California. United States
Yep,
You've got it right.
The flat side of the retainer facing out with the balls in the retainer and push just like you're having a kid. It will snap into place.
I think the bearing should be a Hartford, so make sure you have the right bearing. That could be the problem.
 

MaxGlide

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Aug 7, 2009
844
60
Vancouver, Canada
Definitely put bearings in, grease well (on bearing race too), balls in and push until it snaps into place. I've done a bunch of those.
 

HIGGINSFOREVER

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Nov 23, 2008
3,350
79
Cape May N.J. area
It looks to me like the bearing race is backward,Put the bearings in and try putting the large side on.If you force the small side on dont it look like the bearings will fall out.
 

Buster1

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Oct 23, 2011
856
Las Vegas
Gene,

The retainer is not backward. If I flip it around to wide end first it doesn't seat in the hub race at all. Gotta go narrow end 1st.
 
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HIGGINSFOREVER

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Nov 23, 2008
3,350
79
Cape May N.J. area
Gene,

The retainer is not backward. If I flip it around to wide end first it doesn't seat in the hub race at all. Gotta go narrow end 1st.
By chance are you using the retainer from the sprocket side that is smaller then the retainer for the brake side.
 

Buster1

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Oct 23, 2011
856
Las Vegas
Gene, that's a good call. I checked it to be sure. I don't think that's the case here as both my sprocket side retainers and bearings haven't been removed from there original positions since disassembly. They are both seemingly 'permanent' in their positions due to ridges and such keeping them in place. I didn't know how to get them off.

I don't know how they do it but the smaller outer retainer seems to be impossible to remove without damaging something.

IMG_4586-1.jpg
 

HIGGINSFOREVER

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Nov 23, 2008
3,350
79
Cape May N.J. area
Gene, that's a good call. I checked it to be sure. I don't think that's the case here as both my sprocket side retainers and bearings haven't been removed from there original positions since disassembly. They are both seemingly 'permanent' in their positions due to ridges and such keeping them in place. I didn't know how to get them off.

I don't know how they do it but the smaller outer retainer seems to be impossible to remove without damaging something.

IMG_4586-1.jpg
My musselman book is kind of blurry so thats the best i can come up with.Good luck
 
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Buster1

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Oct 23, 2011
856
Las Vegas
Okay, so I got the bearing retainer (with bearings) over the lip. (Upper photo, on the right). Had to whack it with a rubber mallet to get it in there.

Now I am assembling my hub looking at my disassembly photos and the same darn retainer won't nestle right into the hub race. What is going on here? I feel like a rookie.

Does it need to 'snap' into the hub race housing too?

IMG_4588-1.jpg

IMG_4587-1.jpg
 

dougfisk

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jun 24, 2008
3,040
under a rock
ASSUMING you have the right parts... roll the retainer assembly a little forward on the cone while sliding the assembly into the hub, sometimes the bearings roll back on the cone/race and expand enough such that they wont fit into the hub... don't you just love the learning process?
 

Buster1

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Oct 23, 2011
856
Las Vegas
man, I'll try that. You guys are saving my bacon on this hub. Never had so much trouble.
 

dougfisk

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jun 24, 2008
3,040
under a rock
Your gonna love it when you get it together. I'll trade you my new departures for your Musselmans all day long. :D
 

Buster1

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Oct 23, 2011
856
Las Vegas
Update:

Okay, I am still unable to get the bearing/retainer in. Talking heavy forcing here too. I removed it from the previously mentioned race and tried fitting it JUST BY ITSELF into the hub shell/cone. It would barely fit!

So I have a theory as too why my last race was so damaged and destroyed...I think the retainer is the wrong one, too big!
IMG_4566-1.jpg


So now, not being able to get the retainer even squeezed into the hub, that seems to indicate to me that it is too big. The bearings were too compressed from the hub and caused the wear seen above as they compressed on that race. I'v also noted that the retainer in question seems too wobbly and big how it sits now on the new race.

Anyone have any pics or measurements of the correct retainer for an Air Cooled Elgin hub?
 

dougfisk

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jun 24, 2008
3,040
under a rock
I'm going to go out and take one apart and tell you what I can find out. :)
 

dougfisk

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jun 24, 2008
3,040
under a rock
1. My retainers are unmarked, but they hold nine 1/4 inch balls.
2. They are the same at each end of the hub.
3. They are the "other" style, open on the outer perimeter, closed on the inner.
4. Are you trying to reuse the balls that were rolling on that other cone? :eek: I hope not.
5. You don't really need a retainer. Get some 1/4in balls at your LBS or hardware store. Paste them onto your "cone" or shell with grease and assemble that way. With no retainer it will probably hold up to 12 or 13 balls.

Warm up on your New Departure and switch to this one and you'll think you are Lance Armstrong.! :eek:
 
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