Info needed - is this a Diamant Pista?

[indycycling]

I visited an 80+ year old prior Schwinn shop owner of over 30+ years here locally in Indianapolis last week and picked up some nice pieces from his old shop. These were mostly Stingray related including some literature.

He tells me his wife raced track at the Nationals back in the day and pulls out this pista frame and parts - pics attached as found. She put some Schwinn decals on it, but he thought it was a Diamant.

It's got Stronglight cotter crankset, really cool roller bearing bottom bracket bearings/cups and looks to be English thread by the BB width, has Campy large flange hubs with fixed rear and Berthet Lyotard platform track pedals.

I think this is a 60's bike or a little older based on his recalling when she was racing it.

Any assistance here on identification would be greatly appreciated! I'm gonna clean it up, remove the improper Schwinn decals, stretch some sew ups on it and put back together at least for now. I would love to restore this one as the paint is gone, but want to understand what I've got first - thanks!

 

[Schwinny]

Kinda looks interesting.
It's the frame you want to know about?
I would recommend pics of the frame and it's construction.
The parts all seem to be marked.
There are a few real good frame construction identification folks here but I'll bet they'd like better pics.
I'd like to know also.. for the old noggin data base.
My noggin base seems remember those RWB bands are applied white bands facing each other so that part is probably a given.
@juvela

 

[indycycling]

Kinda looks interesting.
It's the frame you want to know about?
I would recommend pics of the frame and it's construction.
The parts all seem to be marked.

 

[indycycling]

Kinda looks interesting.
It's the frame you want to know about?
I would recommend pics of the frame and it's construction.
The parts all seem to be marked.
There are a few real good frame construction identification folks here but I'll bet they'd like better pics.
I'd like to know also.. for the old noggin data base.
My noggin base seems remember those RWB bands are applied white bands facing each other so that part is probably a given.
@juvela

the bands decal around the seat tube says Schwinn and is not proper for the frame as I noted in the original post, applied by his wife before she raced the bike. Thanks

 

[juvela]

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if you have investigated the Diamant marque you quickly learned that there are two unrelated

one is Dutch and one is German

because of the lug pattern employed here and the tricolour bands around the tubes in the German national colours would suspect the cycle to be the Diamant from that land

the roller bearing bottom bracket assembly is quite something. these are of very high quality and rare in my experience. produced in versions for use in both cottered and cotterless chainsets. mfr catalogue illustration of the cotterless edition -

the headset appears to be integral. integrals were disappearing by the 1960's so the frame may be somewhat earlier & appears so.

the machine's Stronglight chainset appears to be a model termed the Nr. 54 -

pedals are Lyotard model Marcel Berthet M23 -

you will be able to retrieve a date from the axle locknuts of the machine's Campag hubs -

forum member @non-fixie is very knowledgeable as to cycles from the low countries and will be able to give you more and better information. have sent him a message regarding the machine.

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[non-fixie]

Nice find! I am not very familiar with the German Diamant brand, and I am not really into fixies either, as you may have already guessed. But I do like the purposeful look of vintage track bikes and especially the stories that come with them.

What does it say on the bottom bracket shell? The seems to quite some text. A name, perhaps?

There is a German website dedicated to Diamant, which has a page on (all?) their track models. You might be able to recognize some of the details if your bike is indeed a German Diamant.

There is a German classic bike forum that might be worth a visit: Rennmaschinen bis 1990. One of their members, "martl", also regularly posts on Bikeforums C&V. He may be able to point you in the right direction.

 

[indycycling]

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if you have investigated the Diamant marque you quickly learned that there are two unrelated

one is Dutch and one is German

because of the lug pattern employed here and the tricolour bands around the tubes in the German national colours would suspect the cycle to be the Diamant from that land

the roller bearing bottom bracket assembly is quite something. these are of very high quality and rare in my experience. produced in versions for use in both cottered and cotterless chainsets. mfr catalogue illustration of the cotterless edition -

View attachment 1630104


the headset appears to be integral. integrals were disappearing by the 1960's so the frame may be somewhat earlier & appears so.

the machine's Stronglight chainset appears to be a model termed the Nr. 54 -

View attachment 1630112

pedals are Lyotard model Marcel Berthet M23 -

View attachment 1630111

you will be able to retrieve a date from the axle locknuts of the machine's Campag hubs -

View attachment 1630108

forum member @non-fixie is very knowledgeable as to cycles from the low countries and will be able to give you more and better information. have sent him a message regarding the machine.

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Awesome info, thanks so much! I will check the dates on axle nuts after work - thanks again!

 

[indycycling]

Nice find! I am not very familiar with the German Diamant brand, and I am not really into fixies either, as you may have already guessed. But I do like the purposeful look of vintage track bikes and especially the stories that come with them.

What does it say on the bottom bracket shell? The seems to quite some text. A name, perhaps?

There is a German website dedicated to Diamant, which has a page on (all?) their track models. You might be able to recognize some of the details if your bike is indeed a German Diamant.

There is a German classic bike forum that might be worth a visit: Rennmaschinen bis 1990. One of their members, "martl", also regularly posts on Bikeforums C&V. He may be able to point you in the right direction.

thanks as well! I can't make out the stampings on the bottom bracket shell yet. I will try to clean it up some and/or take a pencil lift. Let you know what I find after work. I'll check out some of the other pages you recommend as well to continue researching it's heritage, thanks!

 

[juvela]

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wonderful information from @non-fixie

forgot to mention above -

expect frame tubes and threading to be of BSC dimension

26.8mm diameter down and seat tubes

25.4mm diameter top tube

BSC threading for steerer and bottom bracket shell

bottom bracket shell likely 68mm in width although there are some vintage track ones which are 65mm

original rear spacing likely 110mm - would expect this dimension for over the locknuts of the rear wheel

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[indycycling]

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wonderful information from @non-fixie

forgot to mention above -

expect frame tubes and threading to be of BSC dimension

26.8mm diameter down and seat tubes

25.4mm diameter top tube

BSC threading for steerer and bottom bracket shell

bottom bracket shell likely 68mm in width although there are some vintage track ones which are 65mm

original rear spacing likely 110mm - would expect this dimension for over the locknuts of the rear wheel

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Thanks again - the rear drop out spacing is 116mm and matches the rear Campy hub width outside the lock nuts. Bottom bracket measures 66mm wide.