It rides nice

[Strings-n-Spokes]

badger

I think that the badge would be likely to say Firestone, Hotrod
However, having a badge that says speed is pretty cool.

I have a bit of an idea how to do the paint now,thanks

Shane

 

[37fleetwood]

to my knowledge, Firestone never used Cleveland welding bikes. either the fenders have been changed at some time or some other vendors used the initials holder. I'm guessing the fenders came off a Colson Firestone somewhere along the way as they don't look like Huffman to me.
the catalogues, as has been pointed out, don't always reflect all models offered but to suggest that Firestone used a manufacturer they never used is too far a stretch, most catalogue discrepancies are things like promotional models or maybe trim changes, Marc's Firestone Twin-Flex is a perfect example, it has the Huffman paint scheme rather than the Firestone scheme but it is still a bike that Firestone used. want to know for sure? try to put a Firestone badge on it, if the holes line up you're in if not try something more Cleveland Welding traditional. on Huffmans the holes are approximately 2 1/8" apart, I believe most Cleveland badges are larger.
Scott

 

[Strings-n-Spokes]

The headbadge holes are just under 2 1/4 inches apart.

The fenders are original to the bike there is not a notch in the rear fender brace like some later CWC frames but the fenders were stamped with a flat space where it mounts to the frame, I'm 99% sure they came with the bike. Did colsons ever produce bikes with peaked fenders? I have seen them on Elgins, Monarks and of course CWC bikes.

Thanks
Shane

 

[JRE]

Yea the prewar colsons had peaked fenders.

 

[RMS37]

Colson used several ridged gothic fenders but they are not the same pressing or cut as CWC fenders. I have a front fender in my collection like the one on Shane?s bike and it is identical to other 1937 CWC fenders with the addition of the letter tray.

I measured some badges this morning. A typical CWC Roadmaster badge has vertical holes spaced 2 7/8? on center. I measured two Firestone badges, a Fleetwood archer badge and a Firestone Flying Ace badge. Each of those has an on center spacing of 2 3/16?. The Fleetwood archer badge I have only says Fleetwood, there is no additional text connecting the badge with Huffman or Firestone. The later Flying Ace badge says Firestone but again does not credit the manufacturer.

In my experience early CWC frames appear with a wider variety of badges than the later frames. This leads me to believe that in the early years CWC was selling product in smaller batches to a wider range of distributors. Perhaps after relationships were developed with larger distributors it was easier to sell to them in volume and focus less on smaller contracts.

With respect to Scott?s comments, I think it is important as a bicycle historian to be able to be both skeptical and open minded when assessing and addressing anomalies in the vintage bicycle world. Without a balance of these two approaches, things will get by you. I?m sure his knowledge, just like mine, of who sold to and what was sold by Firestone is based on both literature and personal observations. Without the luxury of being a fly on the wall when bicycle purchasing decisions were made in the day, no one can know for certain everything that transpired. Considering how many companies did build for Firestone I don?t believe it is that much of a stretch to allow that CWC may have been one of them.

Although Scott?s opinion is that CWC-Firestones don?t exist, the evidence I have seen leads me to the opinion that some CWC built bicycles were sold by Firestone in 1937. In my opinion it is the best explanation for the existence of CWC pattern letter tray front fenders appearing on CWC built bicycles.

Back to badging; if CWC made bikes for Firestone it is within the realm of possibility that they may have also produced a badge for them. Since your bike arrived badgeless it is open speculation at this point on what originally sat there. Hopefully another example will turn up with the badge in place.

Phil

 

[37fleetwood]

I'm not trying to be disagreeable, just saying that if we assume anything is possible then I can claim that I have a 1935 Firestone Aerocycle, or an Elgin Phantom. truly we need to keep an open mind but also a bit of reason is required. if another verifiable CWC Firestone is found then we'll know, until then I am very sceptical that this bike is indeed a Firestone. as a Huffman collector, I have seen my fair share of Firestones, and I have Firestone as one of my automatic searches on ebay. if anything Firestone comes up I get an e-mail. I have collected almost all the Firestone catalogs. I have not, in 10+ years of looking, seen one bike made by CWC badged as a Firestone.
all this aside the bike is truly fabulous, I love the early paralell bar bikes, it's sad they didn't make tham for a few more years.
and thanks Phil, it's nice to have someone to bounce ideas off of and don't be afraid to be outspoken, I'm wrong as often as not.
if we're not afraid of stepping on toes, we'll get this sorted out
Scott

 

[Strings-n-Spokes]

Yessssss

Thanks Bender!

Maybe Easywind can scrounge up a headbadge picture.
Do you remember if it had the letter tray on the fender?

 

[37fleetwood]

Ok, I'm throwing away all my Firestone catalogues and looking for a rare Firestone Aerocycle!:eek:
woo, hoo! here's a photo of my rare Huffman made Schwinn!

Scott

 

[Strings-n-Spokes]

Not so fast Scott.

I emailed Eazywind and he says that the frame on Ebay did not have a badge.

I also contacted the guy that I got the bike from, it is doubtful that he will be able to come up with an answer either, he bought it and some other bikes from a high school kid who gets a few bikes at a time from his grandfathers collection. He will let me know if the guy shows up with a handful of headbadges.

Back to the Ebay bike there are differences in the fork (missing tang), the rear fender brace has the notch for the fender peak so they may be different years Hmmm I should have asked Eazywind for the serial number.

so all I know is that I don't know
as usual

Shane

 

[RMS37]

The frame that eazywind has listed on eBay is a CWC frame and crank with a Colson fork transplant. It appears that the bike had a quick overall dark red repaint sometime in antiquity that may have been painted over the headbadge. The remaining white paint where the headbadge sat is likely the remains of a white head and darts from the original paint job. The outline of the badge looks similar to a Fleetwood archer badge. Even if the badge can?t be found the measurement of the badge hole spacing might be useful.

In the carport pictures, the bike has its fenders, did these end up with easywind?

Phil