It's time for the e bike discussion

[oldmtrcyc]

What brand of mid-drive are you using? I have a clunker of a tall frame ranger that has plenty of room where a tank once was to now hold a battery. I have some of Kevin's 700c wheels, but I would want better brakes than the old New Departure C has to offer. Also, I think a front brake is a 100% necessity. I'm not sure what to do there without it looking too modern?

 

[RPower]

So, I have used the Bafang 750 W mid drive and am finishing the red one with the Tongsheng 750 W mid drive (which is a torque sensor rather than a velocity sensor so it kicks in with force, which should be cool). All mid drive motors except a new 250 W Tongshen need rear brakes (because the cranks spin backwards), which is where it starts to get away from most period builds with extra brake levers and cables. You absolutely have to a front brake and the 70mm Sturmey Archer looks and works best (my opinion and my Shelby has a very ugly Shimano band brake). The German hub in the pics is highly regarded and from the 30s or 40s but I probably won't use it. Another option is a front hub motor (rear hub motors are set up for derailleurs) with a disc brake, but you would need a modern fork. I prefer the mid drives for balance and performance but the rear brake issue is.... and issue. Be happy to help with any technical aspects if you decide to build.

 

[oldmtrcyc]

Personally I prefer to pedal my bikes. If I want motorized two-wheel transportation I'll fire up one of the HDs! V/r Shawn

Shawn, you are browsing in the "MOTORIZED BICYCLES" section.

 

[Schwinny]

There is a BIG difference between;
Pros and hobbyists putzing around with electric motation,
The imaginations and sales efforts of those that honestly buy one for transportation and sell them for a living.
and
Reality in-between

They are Mo-peds. Motorized vehicles.
They weigh more and go faster with no effort so need extra stopping power and distance. I've already been smacked from behind by someone that couldn't stop in time and was going too fast for where they were... In a place where motorized vehicles are prohibited... with a look of "get out of my way," with an attitude like I was the problem.

Hobby industry aside, this is a BIG discussion

From the hobby end of it, I may just make an electric burnout bike. That sounds fun.
I had a friend with a front drive motor on his tri-cycle. 750 watts of smoke and torque steer. It was fun to stand with feet in front of the rear tires, jam the throttle till the front tire smokes and sit down on the bike. Reminded me of the little 80's Omni GLH-i I had many years ago. Give it the gun and it heads for the curb.

From the business and use end of it.... Bleh.

 

[HBSyncro]

I do not enjoy noisy bikes, whether they be manual or electric. A guy rode past me yesterday and his bike sounded horrible...but it looked like he was having fun.

 

[RPower]

There is a BIG difference between;
Pros and hobbyists putzing around with electric motation,
The imaginations and sales efforts of those that honestly buy one for transportation and sell them for a living.
and
Reality in-between

They are Mo-peds. Motorized vehicles.
They weigh more and go faster with no effort so need extra stopping power and distance. I've already been smacked from behind by someone that couldn't stop in time and was going too fast for where they were... In a place where motorized vehicles are prohibited... with a look of "get out of my way," with an attitude like I was the problem.

Hobby industry aside, this is a BIG discussion

From the hobby end of it, I may just make an electric burnout bike. That sounds fun.
I had a friend with a front drive motor on his tri-cycle. 750 watts of smoke and torque steer. It was fun to stand with feet in front of the rear tires, jam the throttle till the front tire smokes and sit down on the bike. Reminded me of the little 80's Omni GLH-i I had many years ago. Give it the gun and it heads for the curb.

From the business and use end of it.... Bleh.

I guess I am a cyclist first, antique bicycle enthusiast second and then comes "I built a couple of custom e bikes". The red Westfield in my pics is the last e-bike I am building. In product testing, I rarely took them on trails (which in Colorado Springs basically allow you to ride anything - yet another BIG discussion) and when I did I was on the lowest possible setting and avoided the throttle. Makes for leisurely, relative safe (I mean, you have to be able to ride any bike safely and that means understanding the components) ride with varying degrees of effort. Now, I am not going to lie - I do test top speeds, full throttle operation and gearing combinations on roads and love it but I do not consider it a bike ride. To me, they are not bicycles, rather they are mopeds similar in concept to old motobikes with 2 stroke motors. Business end of it....... Bleh (but so is rebuilding old bikes).

 

[Nashman]

I think (on occasion) an electric or gas motorized bicycle is practical and economical but safety regulations are the issue in my opinion. ( proper tires, brakes, lights, reflectors, horn, mirror?...ability to control....) I see motors strapped on beater Walmart mountain bikes buzzing down main roads and sidewalks and roll my eyes and shake my head. It seems any "goon" can buy a "made in China" 2 stroke and be the "leader of the pack" without any regulation.

I think we are "over regulated" much of it being a tax grab, BUT when it comes to people getting injured or causing accident or injury I draw the line. I suspect I am "high-jacking" the thread ( not on purpose, or being malicious/mods, please relocate if I'm being stupid) but when I was a kid in the 60's and 70's, we were nailed by the law if we took a mini bike or a go-kart off personal property. That sucked as I was one of those kids!

Now it seems anything goes. I ride safe vintage pedal bicycles, cars, and a motorcycle. They are equipped to brake, turn, and accelerate to specs that are professionally done, and therefore approved to run on public streets safely. I have been trained and tested to operate these. Up here in Canada, a scooter under 50cc does not need a motorcycle license to drive on public streets. WTF? Same with power assisted bicycles. Any "Yahoo" can side swipe my 1940 Dayton, '69 Triumph Bonneville, or '61 Corvette and flip me the bird?

I applaud the creations many "lay" people (and Cabers) construct but worry about peoples ability to control what they create. Ok, so I'll be 65 this year and not as "Perky" on pushing the pedals as I used to be. I likely won't consider a motorized ( electric or gas) unit as the exercise and freedom of vintage simplicity still "floats my boat" or "pedals my bike" in this case. Maybe I'm opening a can of worms here, I dunno. ( Again..) If some 80 year old ( or 10 year old) clips me walking or pedalling or driving a legal unit, while driving a motorized anything out of control ( mentally, physically or mechanically challenged) it's not going to be pretty.

This won't be popular, but I think any wheeled vehicle run on public streets or bike trails, or person in control, should be regulated so they don't hurt anyone/themselves. Hey, if you lack the strength and physical/mental capability to pedal a bicycle, how able or qualified are you to brake, turn, stop, merge with others? That said, I'm not a safety freak. I don't approve of mandatory bicycle helmets in quiet roadways and bike paths, and frankly, didn't wear a motorcycle helmet until it was legislated. I'm not a fan of seat belts either. Old school and maybe a hypocrite? After sitting in an Emergency ward 7 hours to get 4 stitches ( our Health care is a joke) on a cut hand ( not wearing safety gloves handling razor sharp tin) last Summer, I've raised the bar on safety and doing less stupid sh**, and watching others do the same.

 

[Nashman]

I do not enjoy noisy bikes, whether they be manual or electric. A guy rode past me yesterday and his bike sounded horrible...but it looked like he was having fun.

Yeah, I drive a loud motorcycle on public roadways ( actually contributes to my safety from being driven over) but "silence is golden" on quiet bicycle trails and scenic parks and green spaces. I'm sure the guy was having fun, but annoying how many people? Consideration for others is taking a back seat to the "ME" world we live in now. Pity.

 

[Schwinny]

I think (on occasion) an electric or gas motorized bicycle is practical and economical but safety regulations are the issue in my opinion. ( proper tires, brakes, lights, reflectors, horn, mirror?...ability to control....) I see motors strapped on beater Walmart mountain bikes buzzing down main roads and sidewalks and roll my eyes and shake my head. It seems any "goon" can buy a "made in China" 2 stroke and be the "leader of the pack" without any regulation.

I think we are "over regulated" much of it being a tax grab, BUT when it comes to people getting injured or causing accident or injury I draw the line. I suspect I am "high-jacking" the thread ( not on purpose, or being malicious/mods, please relocate if I'm being stupid) but when I was a kid in the 60's and 70's, we were nailed by the law if we took a mini bike or a go-kart off personal property. That sucked as I was one of those kids!

Now it seems anything goes. I ride safe vintage pedal bicycles, cars, and a motorcycle. They are equipped to brake, turn, and accelerate to specs that are professionally done, and therefore approved to run on public streets safely. I have been trained and tested to operate these. Up here in Canada, a scooter under 50cc does not need a motorcycle license to drive on public streets. WTF? Same with power assisted bicycles. Any "Yahoo" can side swipe my 1940 Dayton, '69 Triumph Bonneville, or '61 Corvette and flip me the bird?

I applaud the creations many "lay" people (and Cabers) construct but worry about peoples ability to control what they create. Ok, so I'll be 65 this year and not as "Perky" on pushing the pedals as I used to be. I likely won't consider a motorized ( electric or gas) unit as the exercise and freedom of vintage simplicity still "floats my boat" or "pedals my bike" in this case. Maybe I'm opening a can of worms here, I dunno. ( Again..) If some 80 year old ( or 10 year old) clips me walking or pedalling or driving a legal unit, while driving a motorized anything out of control ( mentally, physically or mechanically challenged) it's not going to be pretty.

This won't be popular, but I think any wheeled vehicle run on public streets or bike trails, or person in control, should be regulated so they don't hurt anyone/themselves. Hey, if you lack the strength and physical/mental capability to pedal a bicycle, how able or qualified are you to brake, turn, stop, merge with others? That said, I'm not a safety freak. I don't approve of mandatory bicycle helmets in quiet roadways and bike paths, and frankly, didn't wear a motorcycle helmet until it was legislated. I'm not a fan of seat belts either. Old school and maybe a hypocrite? After sitting in an Emergency ward 7 hours to get 4 stitches ( our Health care is a joke) on a cut hand ( not wearing safety gloves handling razor sharp tin) last Summer, I've raised the bar on safety and doing less stupid sh**, and watching others do the same.

This is actually becoming a BIG issue across the country as bicycles are electrified for everyday use. Many states have picked up classification levels by speed but that is soooo easy to sidestep. Typical shortsightedness mostly likely encouraged by the industry.
As far as Im concerned, if it is strictly human powered it is a bicycle. If it is powered in any other way at any power level for any reason, it is a motorized vehicle. A moped, a scooter, a mini bike.
Internal combustion is actually an engine. Trons spinning copper is a motor. A Motor driven vehicle, for semantics sake.
Motorized vehicles should not be on a bicycle and walking path, dirt or asphalt.

A 250 pound person on a 150 pound "bicycle" doing 25mph on a narrow path with little experience and woefully inadequate brakes. Equals...... me with a cracked rear fender.
And leaving people to police themselves is ridiculous. This isn't levels of freedom worthy afaic.

 

[oldmtrcyc]

Holy crap. What I thought was going to be a cool thread turned into a bunch of naysayers whining and preaching about other people trying to have fun! Sound like a bunch of grumpy old men LOL. I'm out.