Jeffrey and Gromully tandem

Discussion in 'Antique Bicycles Pre-1933' started by Artweld, Jan 7, 2018.

  1. #1 Posted Jan 7, 2018

    Look Ma, No Hands!

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    Was told that this tandam was a possible Jeffery and gromully built racing tandam frame, cranks sprockets shifter and wheels were added later not correct to the frame, any idea on if that's possible, thanks

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  2. #2 Posted Jan 7, 2018

    I live for the CABE

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    A closeup of the fork would also help
     
  3. #3 Posted Jan 7, 2018

    Look Ma, No Hands!

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    Fork is also not correct, but was told that it was a one year issue? Balloon fork 624c67f65183e347fc574abff0fcb58e.jpg de2610a6333873d82c7f06c84b91c97d.jpg

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  4. #4 Posted Jan 7, 2018

    Wore out three sets of tires already!

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    Front fork appears to be 1940's Colson. Cranks, sprockets, wheels are from some other 1940-50's era bicycles. I have three Gormully & Jeffery Rambler tandems and even though a few of the pointed frame lugs on your frame bear a resemblance to G & J the overall frame construction does not. I personally do not believe this tandem frame is G & J. I'm not sure what it is but my gut feeling is not G & J.

    rambler-tandem-1898.jpg
     
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  5. #5 Posted Jan 7, 2018

    Look Ma, No Hands!

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    Ok thanks, I was also informed that it may have been a custom made to order frame from G & J that's why it won't show up in a catalog, it's that something that was done back then by the manufacturer? I'm attaching a pic of the BB which I never seen before, the outside bearing cup are egg shaped the bottom nuts and bolts are loosen to make the BB adjustable for proper chain adjustment, I moved the rear BB to show how it works, loosen the bolt rotate forward or backwards for chain tension, any Info would help as I would like to do a better restoration on it, would also like to badge it, thanks again c917b69a38b2a300b41d42a974c6bd08.jpg 96a5740b15ffceeb2f6605d103b503e9.jpg 877ccedb6d5da1cb210f4696bbd0a06c.jpg

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  6. #6 Posted Jan 8, 2018

    Wore out three sets of tires already!

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    The style of crank housing on your frame among many other frame characters is why I do not believe your frame is G & J. The overall frame design and crank housings are nothing like anything I ever saw G & J use on any of their bicycles. Again, aside from a couple pointed lugs your frame bears no resemblance to G & J bicycles and tandems I have seen. Since frame lugs could be ordered through supplier catalogs by bicycle manufacturers and frame builders I truly suspect your frame is some manufacturer other than G & J.
     
  7. #7 Posted Jan 8, 2018

    Wore out three sets of tires already!

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    I believe I found your tandem frame. This frame looks to me to be an exact match. Angle of frame tubes look correct to me. I strongly believe this is your tandem. Even what I can see of your rear wheel dropouts look more like the Armstrong Moth than anything G & J ever built.

    moth tandem.jpg
    Built in 1936 at the Sherbourne Street factory in Birmingham.

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    #7 Rambler, Jan 8, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
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  8. #8 Posted Jan 8, 2018
    sam
    sam

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    Not a Moth ---wrong type head set.
     
  9. #9 Posted Jan 8, 2018

    Wore out three sets of tires already!

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    Possibly not a Moth but certainly closer than G & J. I believe the tandem is later than 1890's based on construction. If Artweld would post a detailed photo or two of the rear wheel dropouts that may help narrow the decade in which the frame was built and also possibly help identify the manufacturer.
     
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  10. #10 Posted Jan 8, 2018

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    Certainly not an Armstrong 'Moth', almost certainly not English at all, headset, style of bottom bracket/chainsets etc are all typically American in design and wouldn't fit an English frameset. Probably American made, could be anytime from the '20s to the '50s judging by the frame design, pretty standard design.
     
  11. #11 Posted Jan 8, 2018

    Look Ma, No Hands!

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    I I'll get some more pics of the rear drop outs tonight and any other pics that might be helpful, thanks for you input on this matter, its interesting to know that CABE MEMBERS are willing to help out other members with research, thanks again

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  12. #12 Posted Jan 8, 2018

    Look Ma, No Hands!

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    Here are a few more pics, hope they can help in some way, rear stay pic, more of bottom crank housing and some of the nickel plate parts that I believe are original to the frame, that moth so far seems almost identical other then the front head set area the middle bar seems a little tighter and lower and the rear wheel to the rear seat post tube is much closer, I been told the the reason the distance between the rear wheel and rear seat post is greater on this frame is that it was built for long distance racing, any truth to that? Thanks again 41d81d60eb458618196cd3d5a84db39a.jpg 135d3beff869233a61eb7236610250b5.jpg [​IMG] db5a85144290e9a45437cdfbe2f26c88.jpg 543219001465ee6d490d90da973b3279.jpg 8fadbcba1e68dcc0cfa08f5bbb07d593.jpg afeae556c6cf7b93a1113c96903b2da5.jpg 9ef67deadbfccc38340975cc168c8caf.jpg

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  13. #13 Posted Jan 9, 2018

    Wore out three sets of tires already!

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    Rear wheel dropouts are definitely not G & J or Moth. Not sure what it is but I'll keep looking. The dropout design looks a little familiar to me but can't place it at the moment.

    I don't know regarding your question "distance between the rear wheel and rear seat post is greater on this frame is that it was built for long distance racing" possibly a CABE member knowing something about racing bicycle geometry can answer that one.
     
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  14. #14 Posted Jan 10, 2018

    I live for the CABE

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    Racing frames don't usually have dropouts drilled for mudguard mountings. Racing tandems tend to be shorter wheelbase than regular tandem frames and lighter in weight also. I would have thought that would be even more relevant for long distance events as you wouldn't want to be pushing any more weight than necessary.
    Nice detail photos @Artweld though.
    Still a mystery!
     
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  15. #15 Posted Jan 10, 2018

    Look Ma, No Hands!

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    Now things are starting to make sense, I had thought about this, the holes in the rear dropouts and the other two mounting holes makes me believe it's possible that it's a touring model, I would have to agree with you on that and not the racing frame theory, I'm still confused about the crank housing on the frame as I never seen that style on any other frame, the two halves that hold the bearing seem to be pressed together and won't come apart so I can get a better look inside the crank frame area, any thoughts on this? Or any ideal on the manufacturer?

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  16. #16 Posted Jan 10, 2018

    Wore out three sets of tires already!

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    After many hours spent searching for Artweld's tandem, I am still at a loss to identify it. However from my searching I am inclined to believe (based on various characteristics) that this tandem was likely produced sometime between WW1 and WW2 with the 1930's being the most likely time period.

    Also, while this tandem may not have been produced in Europe, the frame geometry/design bares a remarkable resemblance to manufacturers such as; Sun, Alworth, Chater-Lea, Hercules, James, Maclean, Stephens, etc. So whomever the manufacturer was, it seems that they were at the very least influenced by tandems from the other side of the pond.

    I do hope someone else comes forward with a positive i.d. because I have exhausted my resources and am very curious who did manufacture Artweld's tandem.
     
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  17. #17 Posted Jan 10, 2018

    Look Ma, No Hands!

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    Thank you so much for your time in trying to identify this tandam your research is greatly appreciated, I myself have been trying for a couple of years to identify it always searching photos, buying vintage bicycle books, online research etc... I'm thinking that the bottom crank housing is perhaps the key to the manufacturer along with the rear dropouts style, it's always great to learn more info on the CABE from fellow members, perhaps someone has the answer to its origin as I would like to restore it to its original style, thanks

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  18. #18 Posted Jan 10, 2018

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    My first impression when I saw this was “Thor” b/b
     
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  19. #19 Posted Jan 10, 2018

    Look Ma, No Hands!

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    Thor b/b? I'll research that

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  20. #20 Posted Jan 10, 2018

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    Several bicycle manufacturers used Thor bottom brackets.
     
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