Let's talk Schwinn steel tubular welded rims

[Schwinn Sales West]

Those are good catalog pages. With the EA3, the spoke counts are interesting. With the 32-40 spoke count options, it becomes a way of enabling the use of higher-end British hubs on the Schwinn bikes. And the 36-hole EA3 would enable use of Schwinn wheels on a British bike. The EA3 size also broadens the array of tires, especially after the mid-1950s. I find the time period of these catalogs interesting in that the higher-end British road and club bikes moved from 26x1-1/4 to 27x1-1/4 more and more over the course of the 1950s, whereas the EA3 tires remained much more commonly available. You had Schwinn tooling up for EA1 production in the S6 rims in the late 1940s, but within just 10 years, the British were replacing that size on many of the sportier bikes with 27 inch.

I wonder if there was thought given at Schwinn to abandoning the EA1. As a manufacturer, was there concern that EA1 was a dead-end size in terms of quality tires, with the gradual abandonment of that size for club bikes in Britain? We all know how it ended up... several options today for EA3 and just the one for new EA1 tires...

In my opinion, the problems at the time were much larger than just figuring out what "bead size" size tires to "spec" on the three speed lightweight model. The entire market demand had already left the 26" lightweight size and moved on to the higher air pressure, lower rolling resistance of a 27 x 1 1/4 wheel size. For that matter internal geared hubs were on the way out also. They were heavy and expensive to manufacture. Bendix was phasing out of the Kick Back Automatic's, Sturmey Archer and Shimano three speed hub models were becoming less popular on the sales floor. The lightweight 27" derailer equipped models were selling well. Even in ladies fenderred models like the Suburban, the five speed was a better volume seller, and at a higher price. The Racer, Breeze coaster brake and three speeds ended as Chicago was slowly closed down. These models were replaced with imported models from Giant, and later CBC with 26 x 1 3/8 EA-3 bead rims. So the entire rim bead sizing issue was over except for the "aftermarket parts replacement business". Obviously, from this conversation the sizing issue and availability of quality replacement tires are still a PITA even today, decades later.

John

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

I think at the first meeting we should generate some Public Service Announcements about S7 tires for S7 rims. Lol

I'll drink to that!

John

 

[J-wagon]

I've always wondered why 700c / 622 bsd wheels became the standard on geared road bikes vs 27" / 630 bsd. Seems like the 27" large diameter would be faster for road and racing

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

I've always wondered why 700c / 622 bsd wheels became the standard on geared road bikes vs 27" / 630 bsd. Seems like the 27" large diameter would be faster for road and racing

My guess is that the 700mm diameter is also the same diameter as a Sew-up Tubular tire/rim. In my old days as a bike racer, we used our Sew -up wheel set to train during the week, and then switched over to our Sew Up's on the weekend to race. By using the same 700mm diameter rims the distance from the axle to the brake shoes was the same. No need to readjust the brakes, just a twist on the cable adjustment maybe.

The 27" diameter was the odd size to anybody that raced a bike.

Just an opinion and a guess.

John

 

[Schwinny]

When ive nothing better to do I go to the VCC library. There, they have many old news reel videos about bikes, racing and bike manufacturing.
I'm into the T's now and don't remember how far back it was, or which heading, but there is a video there that explains and shows how tubular rims are made.

Hot tubes in one side which are forced through and channeled into shape. Coming out, there is a curling block for rim size and cut to length. As they were cut, a lady wearing big gloves racked the hoops.
It was very interesting to see.
There are a lot of those type of vids there.

Having played with a lot of these 597 and 590 rims from Dunlop and even more from 597 Schwinn's, I agree that English build quality was very good compared to many wobbly Schwinn rims.
But...
For what it's worth, the Schwinn chroming is far superior.

I'm always on the look for Dunlop SS "special lightweight" 597 rims on UK eBay. 27" also for that matter.

 

[Grey Ghost]

Good stuff John. Here's some pics of the Quality Display board you were referring to -
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/f...ay-complete-sales-book-all-components.145093/

That primer coat color is the same on both my Orange Krate frame and the chromed seatpost.

Both the paint, on the top tube where the shifter rubbed down to bare metal, and the chrome, where it was scratched down to the primer, has this coating.

Apparently they primed the chrome parts as well?

 

[Livmojoe]

Came across this rim manufacturing video (from India? Where's my OSHA folks?). Not the same Schwinn tubular construction, but an interesting manufacturing process none the less.

 

[SirMike1983]

Traditional construction of a rod brake/Westwood rim is not the same as the Schwinn tubular. The traditional rod brake rim has the ends rolled over, but only rolled partway - enough to form the bead and sidewall, but not all the way back to the center line. The result is the rim is a single layer at the center.

I did find a 1940 or 41 catalog (war era because it talks about how their service has not diminished now that WWII has started) showing the Endrick caliper brake rim construction as apparently double layer through the center.

The Westwood rod brake rim of that era was still of the traditional construction with single layer at the center. Unlike the photo above, the Westwood photo shows the dark line seam where the rolling stops.

 

[Oilit]

That primer coat color is the same on both my Orange Krate frame and the chromed seatpost.

Both the paint, on the top tube where the shifter rubbed down to bare metal, and the chrome, where it was scratched down to the primer, has this coating.

Apparently they primed the chrome parts as well?

View attachment 1778164

View attachment 1778165

You've lost me. Primer is for paint, chrome was traditionally dome in three layers: first copper, then nickel and finally chrome. Maybe you're seeing tarnished copper plating?

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

You've lost me. Primer is for paint, chrome was traditionally dome in three layers: first copper, then nickel and finally chrome. Maybe you're seeing tarnished copper plating?

Yes, you are correct. I read the statement the other day and first thought the very same thing.

The more I re-read it, I think what he was saying was that on chrome items "that are also painted" have primer (or also aluminum undercoat) under the painted areas. Think of an original chrome and painted Schwinn Chaingaurd.

It's the only way I see that the statement makes sense.

John