Need Bicycle Wizardry to Identify some Early Frames 1898-1925

[Lux Low]

I Have 4 Frames that are a Mystery, I Need help figuring out the Brand or Manufacturer. Any help is appreciated, pictures have notes, frames are numbered, all diamond frames, similar manufacture leads welcome.
thanx tyler

 

[cyclingday]

I can't help with the ID, but I would like to say, welcome to The Cabe!
I've admired your work for a long time.
The Firestone Fleetwood Supreme ended up residing in Switzerland.
I can just imagine the looks that bike gets over there.

 

[rhenning]

Do 4 individual pictures of the complete frames from the chain ring side. Very hard to know a frame without seeing the whole frame in one photo. Roger

 

[Lux Low]

More info

Thanx Cycleingday and sorry rodger, Guess i find a Diamond Frame over all picture useless, but will try to get some. Seems I am Leaning towards the Western Union Messenger #2 Being Great Western Manufacturing Company or at least think the fork is.

 

[Lux Low]

Full Frame Pictures

Here Full Pictures of 2 of the Frames

 

[redline1968]

#4 is a late 1890's gendron with repairs to the rear lower stays ( sleeves attached to the drop outs and the rear upper stays welded to it).

 

[Lux Low]

# 4 Rear Drop Outs

So your Saying the # 4 Drop outs are a weld on fix? So Nobody actually factory made bikes using that crude drop out? Interesting, I do think Gendrons has unattached rear upper stays if the bolt was removed, could under stand the fix. I Have a Beautiful Ladies 1898 Gendron on its way to me , so i will have something on hand to make comparisons. Would be interested in Gendron Literature as i have none yet. Thanx for the input.
t

 

[Lux Low]

Still stumped on these if anybody has input.

 

[redline1968]

Stil say gendron on on 4 the others are tough. the badge is a great clue but who knows badge spacing could help.

 

[sam]

Great western and Crescents used the screw in BBs---in fact 1970s Swedish Crescents BBs will interchange