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New Departure Model A Questions

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Ed Minas

Wore out three sets of tires already!
I have been putting Model A’s on my TOC riders. The other day I was riding and the hub basically exploded. All of the sudden when I stopped peddling and applied back pressure to brake the cones became loose and the wheel was wobbly. After taking a close look I thought this would not have happened had there been jam nuts between the cones and the rear stays on one side and a locking nut between the brake arm and the rear stay on the other side. Here is my question. Should there be thin jam nuts to lock the cones and brake arm in place? If not what keeps the whole mess from not backing out like mine did. I found a parts list for the Model A but not an exploded diagram. Any help and expertise on the Model A Hub would grateful appreciated.
 
ah i see - you think that might be the outer nut. Hmmm. I see your point. On all my model As come to think of it i dont remember an inner nut. i dont have any left. Im sure someone on the site has the answer
 
The part #A13 is the thin nut that holds the brake arm in place. Definitely need that.
 
When somebody says "Axle nut" does one then usually think "lock nut".

I recall wondering the same question; I believe that the catalog pictures showed the parts disassembled, and laid flat, but not a break-down type or isometric diagram. Sometimes more insightful pictures may be found at the patent office; often a product may be the result of more than one design patent.

The 1902/03 Albert Fenimore Rockwell patent # 745,524 figures show what look like dish-shaped washers (socket washers) on both sides, next to the brake arm (L) and the adjusting cone (R). The patent describes that loosening the axle nuts alone, without disconnecting the brake arm, would allow for the parts (brake & cone) to be loosened or tightened; it further describes that as an "important" feature. [No mention of additional locknuts to also be loosened].

Another 1910 ND design patent (MacGuyer) states that "Preferably the ends of the axle receive lock nuts to prevent displacement of the cone and brake plate". Wonder how they figured that out. When we use an old design, unimproved, sometimes we are stuck with their original faults.

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/c...g-project-need-everyones-help-pre-1933.34160/
 
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Wow I am speechless. Everyone who chimed in has been super helpful. Believe or not Scott McCaskey sells the dished washer that fits against the brake arm and I have purchased the same, now all I need is the thin nut to scure everything (item A13). I wonder if the nut is the same for C and D hubs? That might make easier to find some.
Thanks again.
 
There are no "thin" nuts in the ND catalog picture; what we can see depicted are the washers (round sides) and "Axle Nuts" (six sided).
ND Model A (1903).jpg
 
Thanks Archie, great picture. Does the brake arm just flop loosely until the hub is bolted between the stays? Any idea why my hub separated (exploded) when I applied braking pressure?
 
Yes, the brake arm could flop loosely, if it were not otherwise secured. Note that only one cone is threaded to the axle in this design, that is the adjusting cone on the right hand drive side. The other element that is threaded to the axle is the brake assembly. The left cone, which is called a brake actuator, is not quite a perfect cone, perhaps more of a pulley-shaped wheel, shaped so that the ball bearings would move L-R with the moving 'cone'.
ND Model A (1903) 2.jpg

No, not sure about your case of the "exploded" hub; were any parts damaged or broken inside, or just the loosening as you described.
If the engaging teeth between the brake-arm to brake-plate (threaded) were loose or worn, to allow the brake to turn (forward with the hub/wheel), then that could cause the axle to turn, and that cause the RHS cone and axle nut to loosen, allowing for even more loosening, slippage, and turning.
 
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