New Guy, need a hand indentifying pre-33 bicycle!

[circa1939]

More photos,....after most cleaning of frame...

Here are some more photos, but of the bike after I've cleaned it up a bit.

Interesting detail in blue, outlined in gold....

Small detail in the pinstriping at the tube ends by the crank.....notice the cross over shaping what looks like an upside down "4"...

Stem,....

 

[circa1939]

Think I may have found my bike in a book??

I decided to head to the library and seek out a copy of "The American Bicycle" whcih I found.

I noticed one very interesting thing about a photo in this book on page 70. It's a picture of Paddy Bowler a famous sprinter.

Here's the match I made...

My bike has almost the exact same front forks as this bicycle does. (only difference seems to possibly be that the one in old photo might be taller??)

It has a distinct curve and design to itself at the top, (see photo of Paddy Bowler and picture of my forks), and beyond that, mine was also nickle plated from the bottom of the lower bearing cup to the top area of the front forks, just as this one is!
Was this a common fork design or did the makers have their own distinct front forks??

Does anyone recognize the badge on the bike? Anyone know what bike this was?? Any ideas??

In fact the entire bike looks the same, same design, same cross bracing curves, etc. all except the stem, handlebars and the bearing cups. The bearing cups on mine are square, these apprear to be rounded.

Anyone have anymore info on Paddy Bowler or that bike?? I can't seem to find anything on the internet on him, or otherwise!!

Paddy Bowler....

Mine...

 

[RMS37]

Hi,

You have a very nice bike and it looks like it is cleaning up phenomenally.

Cranksets and chainrings (when they haven’t been changed) are probably the best single thing to study and compare to try to attribute an unknown early diamond frame bike to a manufacturer. Fork crowns along with other subtle differences in headset pieces, drop-outs, seat binders, the shape and bend of the tubing in the rear stays, and the tubing junctures themselves are also areas where differences may lead to identification. Diamond frames were very popular and with their straight tubes are very hard to identify without a badge.... (fade to a picture of all those badge collections out there,)

I have seen the adjustable stem on your bike on other bikes before but I believe it is a part that was available to many different manufacturers

I don’t think that the bike raced by Paddy Bowler has any significant details that would link it to your find. The fork crown is not particularly similar to the one on your bike. Note the distance from the crown to the lower bearing cup and the minimal material in the web from the steerer to the blades. The crankset on the racer is also a two or three piece unlike your one piece crank.

Insert soap box here.

The photo brings up a point that I think could use some clarification regarding racing bicycles. Most diamond frame bicycles from the early part of this century are not really racing bikes in the truest sense.

From the 1890’s through the Twenties, most of the larger manufacturers offered one or more “racing” models in their line of bicycles. These models ranged from “boy racer” models constructed just like the standard adult and juvenile models but featuring drop bars to special lightened models similar to professional racing models but still generally produced for the non-professional sport rider. Very few manufacturers built or offered true racing bikes that would be considered competitive mounts for competition.

The bicycles actually used by professional racers were generally hand built, sometimes in the back room by a large manufacturer to equip a factory sponsored team, but more often by independent builders in much the same way custom frames are produced today.

By the 1930’s virtually all of the professional racers in America were either using frames built by independent frame builders or European sourced frames, all equipped with European componentry. Credit goes to Schwinn for developing the Paramount line of frames and equipment in 1938 which rivaled and in some areas exceeded the quality of what was available at the professional level.

While the Paramount line was more heavily marketed and more successful than perhaps any other professional quality bicycle ever had been in America, it is interesting to note that production was infinitesimal in comparison with the World (and later Varsity and Continental production)

My point being... that the majority of bicycles from the early part of the century that today are regarded as racers are more akin to the Varsity Sports of their day.

Remove soap box.

Please don’t infer anything personal from the above but I saw a segue way to a point I haven’t seen mentioned before.

Also, don’t lose faith, I believe between the crankset and the fork crown and a bit of good fortune the identity of your bike will eventually out itself.

I’ll keep the bike in mind in case I come across a useful reference.

Phil

 

[circa1939]

Pics of fork crown,...

Here are some pics of the fork crown on my bike.

I had thought it strongly resembled the one on the Paddy Bowles bike,.. except the taller area right above the crown.
Reason?

My thinking is due to the two tall knuckles on either end of the fork crown,..you can see the same two tall knuckles on the fork on the Paddy Bowles bike....only difference I had seen was the space between the bottom cup and the bottom of the fork crown.

Could this have been a different year's design by the same maker?

Could this have been a varient of the same bike, by the same, or sister company??

 

[circa1939]

Also,...where might I get a pair of wooden handles?

repro or original,....

Thanks

 

[RMS37]

I agree that the knuckles bear a resemblance to the racing crown, they were less evident in the earlier photos.

With all the variations produced at the time the similarity wouldn?t convince me of a relationship between the two bikes. I also noticed that the racing bike has a split bottom bracket which your bike does not.

The thing is that unless some feature is identical and very distinctive between your bike and another badged bike there is no way to be sure they were made by the same manufacturer.

On the other hand designs were modified, changed and updated frequently so two bikes that bear no resemblance to each other could indeed be from the same source.

I have several frames from the same period that I have not been able to identify and always considered making ornate ??? badges to give them some identity.

Again I think the clue is to find a bike with the same crankset although even some of these were sourced rather than in-house production.

Another resource is The Wheelmen, which is the club that specializes in pre 1900 bicycles. Your bike is somewhat newer than that but someone in that group might recognize your frame and they would be a likely source for other period parts like grips.

Phil

 

[Adamtinkerer]

That looks to be a New Dep. model A hub, which may narrow things down a bit. I know balloon era bikes used the model D. ~Adam

 

[circa1939]

That looks to be a New Dep. model A hub, which may narrow things down a bit. I know balloon era bikes used the model D. ~Adam

thanks for the help!,.....do you have any furthur info on how long the Model A New Dep. hubs were used? thank you

 

[Andrew Gorman]

I wish I knew when the Model A was used. From what I've been able to casually piece together, the Corbin Screw Company made the Corbin Duplex brake until at least 1912.
At some point the made the very similar looking Corbin New Departure brake, which was followed by the New Departure Model A. At least some parts interchange between the Corbin and New Departure.
The Model A was followed by the model B, model C, and the standard Model D that was in production until the 1950's.
The model A was used well into the 1920's, but your original brake may have been replaced, or an original fixie hub replaced with a coaster.
Are there any marks on the front hub? New Departure made a series of front hubs as well, but I have no idea when each came in and out of production. Unfortunately definite information about early 1900's bike is hard to come by. Nothing that a week or so of research in a good library couldn't clarify, but I barely have time to get my hair cut lately.
Edit- I found a reference to the Corbin brake being made in 1919-
http://www.jimlangley.net/brake/brake.html
The lettering on the brake arm appears to be stamped, not cast, and I have seen a New Departure by Corbin Screw that had cast lettering... The mystery deepens.

 

[Andrew Gorman]

RE:handgrips, there are some that look pretty good on eBay, item 300264949962