"No Hands" Is A Great Book About The Rise And Fall Of Schwinn.

[Livmojoe]

I think Les' Post #22 should get some kind of "CABIE" award for the longest off topic ramble... and I actually read the whole thing
I've read the book. Interesting to hear about all characters and all the fingers in the Schwinn pie. "Brownie" Schwinn sounded like a lot of fun.

 

[Grey Ghost]

I read it. Learned some details but wasn’t surprised at the overall picture.

Typical failed American business. The top tier loses track of what got them there, what the consumer wanted, and trends in the industry. The suits didn’t care that the consumer wanted a lighter bike. The family had long since lost the desire of AS to build bikes, they just wanted their dividend checks on time.

I remember by 1973, or so, when the bike boom hit. Nobody wanted a heavy, outdated, schwinn. Nobody cared that the newer, lighter brands didn’t have a lifetime warranty, they just wanted a lighter bike. They were getting knowledgeable about things like brazed, lugged frames and professional components. Even in the 80’s when schwinn was acknowledging, and making, real racing bikes, (yeah, I know, besides Paramounts which were always there.), they weren’t as good as say, an equivalent Bianchi. One comparison ride was all it took for most of us to dismiss Schwinns offerings.

Bmx was a total miss for schwinn. Stingray success be damned! Btw, take a look at the bottom right hand of this late 1960’s muscle bike ad. They knew what kids were doing with their bikes!

Mountain bikes weren’t recognized until way too late in the game. Homegrowns were too expensive and seemed to be playing catch up with the whole genre. The whole Mt Tam gang was way out front of schwinn when it came to offering newer, better stuff on a regular basis, usually for less money, than a comparable Homegrown.

I was disappointed that there wasn’t more information in the book about the manufacturing processes, and subsequent changes, as the decades rolled by. We get lots of questions, answers, and disagreement, on this forum, as to what, why and when concerning those subjects. This book didn’t go into much of that. I wish there was a book specifically about those subjects. And no, Geoff Greene doesn’t know it all. Too many unattributed quotes from that guy “proving” something. Disclaimer: I like Geoff and have many of his books, great resource, just not 100% accurate on some things.

 

[bobcycles]

Good to hear Bob, Thanks for the update.

It's been roughly 30 years since Schwinn Bicycle Company melted down. We have the luxury today of being able to be Monday Morning quarterbacks. I think we all have figured out that the No Hands book touched on some of the Schwinn problems, but it was far from being totally historically accurate about all of the Schwinn history.

It was a very emotional time period when they wrote that book and it seemed like everyone interviewed had a different axe to grind. Many of the key people are no longer available to be re-interviewed, I hope they research the documentary enough to not just repeat the same old inaccurate stories. It seems that everyone has their own "correct" opinion as to "what happened", just look at a few of the comments on this post already that are just wrong. I'm not sure why people keep repeating Schwinn missed the MTB market? Schwinn not only missed the BMX market before the MTB market, but they also actually fought the BMX market at the start. What would have happened if they told Sig Mork and Al Fritz we don't want to sell Sting Rays because kids will get hurt riding the bike?

The No Hands book did their best to show and document all of the things they claimed Schwinn did wrong. But today, just look at what happened to the entire Independent Bicycle Dealer segment. For the most part, they are all gone. The surviving brands (Trek/Giant/Specialized) all have/had factory stores (for which Schwinn was criticized by opening one store in an area no dealer wanted), and they have all tried selling models or accessories consumer direct. In short, the entire IBD industry has changed in the last 30 years, and not for the better, IMO. Kids today don't even care to ride a bike, or get their driving license when they turn 16, it's a different time. Schwinn was just the first to fall to the changing market trends.

Finally, no history of what happened to the Schwinn Bicycle Company will be complete until they dig into the Schwinn Family Trust. Edward and Richard Schwinn "took all the heat" because they were in charge, but their hands were tied on many of the large things they needed to address. The Family trust just milked it right to the end. What happened to Schwinn has been sadly repeated many times over and over in old icon American Business.

John

From what I've gathered thus far, an executive at Lions Gate Pictures read the No Hands book and it struck him
in a big way as far as the sad story we are growing accustomed to, an Iconic Brand vaporizing through bad decision making
and eventual outsourced sub-par revival. There was considerable time and resources invested to make sure, as the
documentary team put it, this would be a "love letter" to Schwinn and not another nail in the coffin. Richard Schwinn
as well as many others who had history with the company were slated for interview etc. and even Ed who was apparantly
estranged from the whole history and relationship with the company. They are attempting to get him on camera but thus
far he's reluctant. This could be an interesting doc which covers a lot of ground, including interviews with Pickers Mike and Leon Dixon, retired Schwinn execs, among others. Be interesting to see what they can all squeeze in to an hour and 1/2 format, remains to be seen.

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

From what I've gathered thus far, an executive at Lions Gate Pictures read the No Hands book and it struck him
in a big way as far as the sad story we are growing accustomed to, an Iconic Brand vaporizing through bad decision making
and eventual outsourced sub-par revival. There was considerable time and resources invested to make sure, as the
documentary team put it, this would be a "love letter" to Schwinn and not another nail in the coffin. Richard Schwinn
as well as many others who had history with the company were slated for interview etc. and even Ed who was apparantly
estranged from the whole history and relationship with the company. They are attempting to get him on camera but thus
far he's reluctant. This could be an interesting doc which covers a lot of ground, including interviews with Pickers Mike and Leon Dixon, retired Schwinn execs, among others. Be interesting to see what they can all squeeze in to an hour and 1/2 format, remains to be seen.

The real sad part of the whole event was the loss of the people. They were not only employees, but entire families that were employed by Schwinn Bicycle Company in both production and distribution. It was still a period in American history that employees had a sense of ownership in the work they did, and the products they produced. They were proud to tell anyone they worked for Schwinn. Today, the employee has no loyalty to their company because the company has no loyalty to the employees. In the old days you worked hard to find a job with a "blue chip" company, you worked hard at your job, and the company rewarded you with pension and profit-sharing programs. That has all changed in today's marketplace. Today companies offer incentives for top employee positions to retire early and leave the companies to reduce the "overhead costs". It's less expensive to hire two newbies' than to retain one senior experienced employee. It also saves the companies on health insurance to have a younger work force. Every person I know, has either left their old employer for a new higher paying job, or is actively looking. Ask yourself, how many of your kids have worked for the same company for twenty years today? Nobody works their entire career for one company today and retires getting the gold watch. You would have a hard time telling the Schwinn Storey unless you could find a way to set the time line scene back 30 to 40 years. The dealers, and company employees that were loyal were hurt the most.

John Palmer

 

[Xlobsterman]

The real sad part of the whole event was the loss of the people. They were not only employees, but entire families that were employed by Schwinn Bicycle Company in both production and distribution. It was still a period in American history that employees had a sense of ownership in the work they did, and the products they produced. They were proud to tell anyone they worked for Schwinn. Today, the employee has no loyalty to their company because the company has no loyalty to the employees. In the old days you worked hard to find a job with a "blue chip" company, you worked hard at your job, and the company rewarded you with pension and profit-sharing programs. That has all changed in today's marketplace. Today companies offer incentives for top employee positions to retire early and leave the companies to reduce the "overhead costs". It's less expensive to hire two newbies' than to retain one senior experienced employee. It also saves the companies on health insurance to have a younger work force. Every person I know, has either left their old employer for a new higher paying job, or is actively looking. Ask yourself, how many of your kids have worked for the same company for twenty years today? Nobody works their entire career for one company today and retires getting the gold watch. You would have a hard time telling the Schwinn Storey unless you could find a way to set the time line scene back 30 to 40 years. The dealers, and company employees that were loyal were hurt the most.

John Palmer

 

[Grey Ghost]

Which rhymes with the old communist workers saying;
”They pretend to pay us, we pretend to work”

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

View attachment 1833120

Please explain how employees with poor work ethic has anything to do with an aging factory and The Family Trust ownership that was unwilling to reinvest into modern technology to update the product? These "poor work ethic employees" were snapped up by the other bicycle companies in the industry. Major investment and renovation was required as far back as the 1960's and 70's, long before Edward and Richard took over "day to day" management. Like in many family companies, the younger members wanted to progress, grow, invest, and the older members wanted to just ride the wave.

Most family companies do not survive the third generation of family management. Founders are passionate about the product and what their customer desired, but by the third generation they do not fully understand the product or the customer. The Storey has been repeated many times.

John

 

[Xlobsterman]

Please explain how employees with poor work ethic has anything to do with an aging factory and The Family Trust ownership that was unwilling to reinvest into modern technology to update the product? These "poor work ethic employees" were snapped up by the other bicycle companies in the industry. Major investment and renovation was required as far back as the 1960's and 70's, long before Edward and Richard took over "day to day" management. Like in many family companies, the younger members wanted to progress, grow, invest, and the older members wanted to just ride the wave.

Most family companies do not survive the third generation of family management. Founders are passionate about the product and what their customer desired, but by the third generation they do not fully understand the product or the customer. The Storey has been repeated many times.

John

The quote I posted was in reference to the text I highlighted in RED from your post.

 

[J-wagon]

I picked up my requested copy from local Los Angeles County library branch.

Chapter 9 insightful mtb narrative.
Oh the irony. Schwinns in mtb hall of fame for success in steel ballooner bikes

Klunker 5 sounds like Schwinn 1979 marketing discontinued scaling up insufficient ROI, give it to small producers to niche segment

Schwinn more keen on SoCal cruiser craze vs NorCal mtb trend

Eventually schwinn enter mtb segment, took too long to mass scale up for chromoly, competitors carpe diem more capable and willing.