"No Hands" Is A Great Book About The Rise And Fall Of Schwinn.

[Bru]

I know that we have mentioned it before but new people are being added each day. It is also the story of America. Try getting a copy on Amazon. Oops. I just looked. $165. Try your local library.

I'm new here and just found out about the book a few weeks ago. Checked it out from the library and read it right away. I enjoyed the book a lot. Super interesting the interaction of Schwinn with other things in the bike industry - like retail bike stores, startup manufacturers like Giant and Shimano, and trends such as mountain biking and BMX racing. It was kind of an overview of how the bike industry works with the origins of brands like Specialized, Mongoose and Kestrel.

 

[1817cent]

I have a copy and would pass along to a newer caber for $50. Pm if interested. Check or MO only. NO PAYPAL.. Jay

 

[J-wagon]

Since my San Bernardino County library system didn't have it, I joined the Los Angeles County library and they have 1 copy in the system. I requested to pick up at nearest branch to me. Looking forward to reading it.

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

Hi,

The No Hands book would be useful to read but for me the cost is immense as postage puts it up to over $NZD 1000.

I bought my frame/forks only on Ebay and imported it to New Zealand and started restoration.

There are a few aspects of this Schwinn frame to consider although by the serial number is considered to be a 1981 by the SN BSnnnnnn stamped to the underside of the BB

Firstly I considered the Serial number for these frames to be based on the Chicago Schwinn format established in 1965. Serial numbers are legally recognised for cycle identification.

When I checked my frame number at the time of buying it with the Schwinn Look up Tool site it was identified as February 1981. The completion date of the frame is given as a 4 digit number on the head badge. These frames where refuted to be sold as frame/fork only to those interested in a Mountain Bike frame and where not completed by Schwinn thus they did not receive a 4 digit completion date on the head badge.

In the speech given in this forum page it is stated that 3 Schwinn suits met with Gary Fisher, when did that happen, what year? In my distant view Schwinn did not sell MTB`s in the 1980`s, only ATB`s. I have referred to The Birth of Dirt by Frank J Berto and Fat Tire Flyer by Charlie Kelly, both interesting reads but no mention of a meeting with Schwinn suits. This was due to a Company called Mountainbikes own by Fisher and Kelly thus they attempted to sue anybody who used the name Mountainbikes by any derivative. Not even Tom Richey who made frames for Mountainbikes could use the name in the USA although he did use it in Canada. Neither could other established manufacturers who made the first MTB frames in the 1970`s having been connected with Marin County could not use the name so thus it is very clear that Schwinn would not use MTB but ATB during the 1980`s. As is said often Schwinn never made MTB`s but from 1981 they sold Schwinn King Sting with serial number starting ASnnnnnn. I have seen a 1981 Schwinn Owners Operating ATB catalogue listing refers to King Sting 10, King Sting 5, King Sting, Side Winder 10, Side Winder 5, and Side Winder all 1981 models all advertised as All Terrain Bikes.

This same Schwinn Owners Operating ATB catalogue hand notes a Side Winder as SW1-9 GT502951 (July 1982 start) with a final completion date of 266 82

In respect to the 1981 frame in question the following information is provided

• Notes in the Schwinn Bicycles book as written on page 147 by Jay Pridmore and Jim Hurd “The Schwinn parts Division brought in some lugged mountain bike frames from Japan. But mostly Schwinn was leaving the new market to others. By 1984, the company came out with some higher performing mountain bikes, including the Sierra, also built in Asia”. Jay Pridmore is a professional writer but Jim Hurd was a respected Schwinn historian and director of the Schwinn Cycle museum in Chicago. I did try to contact Jim Hurd prior to his passing to no avail, I trust somebody else on the Cabe web site may know a little more about Jim Hurd.

• Reference has been made the 1981 version were sold as frame/fork setup only by the BMX parts department on Forum pages. I think my frame/forks are one of this product one of 9 at least I have seen. More explanation on this comment is needed, a contact with either of the authors would be appreciated. One of the frames, the same as mine is decaled made in Japan.

• Serial numbers for my frame Schwinn BS367823 and another frame being CS472494 and a few others similarly are stamped to the underside of the BB. This is not the prescribed location for Schwinn to stamped for this time period but in the recognised form of LLNNNNNN. The underside of the BB is a place that frames made in Japan can be located. I realise the Serial number marks the date of the frame production, not the selling date and whether the build was completed around the time is uncertain. I have been told by a Schwinn collector that he has seen a 4 year delay in selling a Schwinn cycle as new from its serial number to the final completion number. Schwinn Chicago production did stop in 1983. Most other frames do not have the SN and a final completion number as Schwinn did.

• The prescribed serial number layout for Japanese made frames and location is different for Schwinn US for this time period. The Japanese manufacturer of these frames is not known, but the tubing is Ishiwata, pre 1980. The head tube on my frame is a Schwinn Chicago badge, the factory closed in 1983 but the badge seems to also appear on until 1985 and 86 that I have been told Schwinn continued to use, although the factory had closed. It is also commented the forks originally came with a Unicrown fork much as a Tange TX1200 that is reported to have broken and then all were replaced with a cast fork crown of unknown manufacture and all the frames sold and in stock were replaced.

• These 2 serial numbers, BS367823 and CS472494 do fit an order of being made in 2 consecutive months by letter. They are also within the production number range of Schwinn cycles produced for the 2 consecutive months, not one of these months nor 3 months. I have no doubt they are correct. I have had one Ex Schwinn employee confirm the serial numbers are correct.

• Ishiwata tubing, steerer tube stamping on frame BS367823 is ISHIWATA 3.B. The Ishiwata catologue of pre 1980 includes the frame tubing produced as the MTB range. This type of tubing does not appear to in the post 1980 catalogue. By comparative measuring of my frame tubing, BS367823, it appears to be the Pre 1979 type Ishiwata MTB tubing. The 2 catalogues are not dated exactly but referred to a late 70`s and early 80`s.

• As an aside, Ishiwata being a pre WW2 company, this dating, 3.B, could be as per Japanese Imperial (Showa) calendar that 3 could represent 53rd year thus the date could be 1978 in the Julian calendar, I am trying to confirm this may be the case. This could be lost in translation and history. If the dating represents 1983 for the tubing the Ishiwata the dating could not be later than the frame manufacture start. The frame and fork I have do appear to be of the same time.

• The fork crown is unusual but is similar to what is used on a number of Japanese manufactured MTB frames of the period and also shows on the Trek 1983 850. My comparisons of fork tubing sizes from Ishiwata and Tange record they are different sizes and thus the actual fork crowns may not actually be the same production or time period. A photo I have seen of one of an imported Rocky Mountain Bicycles Ritchey MTB has the same distinctive faux bi-plane fork crowns as my Schwinn frame and the others above. The origin of these fork crowns may be separate to both Ishiwata and Tange but combined with both. I have tried to establish if Ishiwata used the Japanese Imprerial calendar that would use a number 4 for 1981.

• A 1983 Schwinn BMX catalogue page shows the frame being the same as BS367823 referring to the forks as Unifork Tange 141 fork set but BS367823 frame is clearly stamped as Ishiwata. I have not located details to Tange 141 forks but as I say above, may not be the same as the 1983 Tange fork blades that are not the same size as the Ishiwata fork blades.

This catalogue page clearly shows these frames, as my frame is, being different to other Schwinn ATB Sierra frames, King Sting frames, Sidewinder Cruiser frames of the period.

• It is to be considered the 1983 advertising of the frames put to print in 1982 could be the only time they were advertised from 1981, maybe a clearing out of old stock for a closed factory.

• The link to the Schwinn Parts and BMX departments is clearly staed and thus it is point to be clarified even if possible now. Also the comments by Jay Pridmore and Jim Hurd are very relevant.

• The SN is to me clearly the Schwinn US number and not a Japanese manufacturers SN number. Some commentators have drawn attention to the location of the number on the frame as not being the correct location for a US number and the particular letters and numbers indicate a date but they ignore the other letter and numbers. There has been a reference to the Asian Serial Number Guide but I question it being correct as the ASNG for the format used does not align with the Schwinn format as it I have seen ISnnnnnn being an ASNG number. I suspect Schwinn would not use a formatted number in 1983/4 that they had use in previous years due to the legality of serial numbers system. A contact with Bianche, Italy could not clarify the meaning of the ASNG nor could they name the Asian manufacturer. The ASNG writers does state they have no knowledge of what USA manufacturers used as Serial Number format and in my view the Schwinn 1981 legal format of MSnnnnnn does visually match the ASNG but the meaning is not the same.

• The SN found have been commented on representing many thousands of frames made using the ASNG number where the first number represents the year made whereas the Schwinn format indicates only a few months of 1981 manufacturing therefore lesser numbers made and allocated to ATB frames. If the number is taken as a Schwinn number there will be considerable gaps for other Schwinn frames, eg BMX, childrens bikes, road bikes etc filling in the gaps. There are not many of these frames about.

• I have measured and drawn my frame consider it very similar to a 1980 Beezer Off Road Bicycle frame that could have been copied by Schwinn. Or in fact any pre 1981 MTB frame.

• I have also compared my frame to a Specialised Stumpjumper, second series frame that mine is comparable with.

• Refer to this site

http://forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retro-classic/anybody-able-id-schwinn-frameset-69338.html

These frames are not common, even in 1981, and anybody with Schwinn could add clarification.

Is there anybody on The Cabe site who has a little 1981 knowledge.

Regards
Les

View attachment 1645029

View attachment 1645031

Les, what does any of this have to do with the topic of this post? It was originally about the No Hands Book.

It would be best to ask about your frame questions in your own post.

The frame kits were very common, at least on the West Coast. We sold lots of them. We sold them even before they finally appeared in the national Schwinn parts catalog which was only printed yearly. At the four Regional Distribution Centers we mailed monthly sales specials with new items. Lots of these items had nothing to do with Schwinn produced items.

John

 

[bobcycles]

A documentary is in the works inspired by a major studio execs reading of 'No Hands' and
enthusiasm for the brand and its legacy, a love letter to Schwinn they are calling it, and not dwelling on the
financial debacle at the end.
Should be out on possibly NetFlix, Hulu etc in roughly a year.. Will be shopped at film festivals
for distribution and prominent place streaming somewhere to be found easily....
sounds like a good effort covering the Schwinn brand and the history.

 

[happyclark]

As a retail bike shop owner during the craze of the mountain bike. I watched first hand the inadequacies of Schwinn dealers.. What they had to offer and how they had a complete disconnection. Anything from merchandising to service.. Schwinn’s demise has a lot to do with its aging dealers. And there unwillingness to expand there dealer base.. In my area alone there were 4 Schwinn shops that closed in a short time because the families were well into there mid 70s The dealerships couldn’t be sold because they were losing money.. Schwinn’s loyalty to these old dealerships cost them tremendously. One survived because it picked up trek.. But still to this day it’s run by elderly people that have very little knowledge of products or trends. The mountain bike was HUGE at one time I had no road bikes on my floor. There were a few hybrids sprinkled in but Mountain for years is what we sold… Gary Fischer’s first Mountain frame was built by Tom Ritchie.. Trek bought Bontrager Klein and Lemond in a short period maybe two years… Younger dealers new cool products and incredible merchandising made most Schwinn dealerships look like funeral homes..

 

[Xlobsterman]

As a retail bike shop owner during the craze of the mountain bike. I watched first hand the inadequacies of Schwinn dealers.. What they had to offer and how they had a complete disconnection. Anything from merchandising to service.. Schwinn’s demise has a lot to do with its aging dealers. And there unwillingness to expand there dealer base.. In my area alone there were 4 Schwinn shops that closed in a short time because the families were well into there mid 70s The dealerships couldn’t be sold because they were losing money.. Schwinn’s loyalty to these old dealerships cost them tremendously. One survived because it picked up trek.. But still to this day it’s run by elderly people that have very little knowledge of products or trends. The mountain bike was HUGE at one time I had no road bikes on my floor. There were a few hybrids sprinkled in but Mountain for years is what we sold… Gary Fischer’s first Mountain frame was built by Tom Ritchie.. Trek bought Bontrager Klein and Lemond in a short period maybe two years… Younger dealers new cool products and incredible merchandising made most Schwinn dealerships look like funeral homes..

I worked at a Schwinn dealer in the late 70's and early 80's in Manhattan Beach, California. I started building custom MTB long before Schwinn ever put any production bike on the market. The guy I worked for pretty much let us build anything we wanted as long as it sold..........LOL Our specialty was custom Spitfires & Cruisers. We were one of the go to shops for "Strandie Cruisers" back in the day since our shop was so close to the beach, and the bicycle path that ran along the local beaches.

From what I remember, the owner of my shop was pretty open to selling anything, but I think the franchise agreement limited what he could put on the sales floor in the way of other brands? He was very good friends with the local Schwinn rep, and had the inside information about Schwinn's troubles in the early 80's, and I believe he had the knowledge that Schwinn was going to close the Chicago factory. He sold the shop in late 81, or early 82 as I believe he saw the writing on the wall, and got out while the getting was good. I worked for the new owners for a few months until they got up to speed with the normal day to day operations, then they fired me to hire one of their family members.

Here I am on a custom Champion Cruise/MTB I built for myself in 1979. This was years before Schwinn put a MTB on our sales floor.

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

Hi,

The No Hands book would be useful to read but for me the cost is immense as postage puts it up to over $NZD 1000.

I bought my frame/forks only on Ebay and imported it to New Zealand and started restoration.

There are a few aspects of this Schwinn frame to consider although by the serial number is considered to be a 1981 by the SN BSnnnnnn stamped to the underside of the BB

Firstly I considered the Serial number for these frames to be based on the Chicago Schwinn format established in 1965. Serial numbers are legally recognised for cycle identification.

When I checked my frame number at the time of buying it with the Schwinn Look up Tool site it was identified as February 1981. The completion date of the frame is given as a 4 digit number on the head badge. These frames where refuted to be sold as frame/fork only to those interested in a Mountain Bike frame and where not completed by Schwinn thus they did not receive a 4 digit completion date on the head badge.

In the speech given in this forum page it is stated that 3 Schwinn suits met with Gary Fisher, when did that happen, what year? In my distant view Schwinn did not sell MTB`s in the 1980`s, only ATB`s. I have referred to The Birth of Dirt by Frank J Berto and Fat Tire Flyer by Charlie Kelly, both interesting reads but no mention of a meeting with Schwinn suits. This was due to a Company called Mountainbikes own by Fisher and Kelly thus they attempted to sue anybody who used the name Mountainbikes by any derivative. Not even Tom Richey who made frames for Mountainbikes could use the name in the USA although he did use it in Canada. Neither could other established manufacturers who made the first MTB frames in the 1970`s having been connected with Marin County could not use the name so thus it is very clear that Schwinn would not use MTB but ATB during the 1980`s. As is said often Schwinn never made MTB`s but from 1981 they sold Schwinn King Sting with serial number starting ASnnnnnn. I have seen a 1981 Schwinn Owners Operating ATB catalogue listing refers to King Sting 10, King Sting 5, King Sting, Side Winder 10, Side Winder 5, and Side Winder all 1981 models all advertised as All Terrain Bikes.

This same Schwinn Owners Operating ATB catalogue hand notes a Side Winder as SW1-9 GT502951 (July 1982 start) with a final completion date of 266 82

In respect to the 1981 frame in question the following information is provided

• Notes in the Schwinn Bicycles book as written on page 147 by Jay Pridmore and Jim Hurd “The Schwinn parts Division brought in some lugged mountain bike frames from Japan. But mostly Schwinn was leaving the new market to others. By 1984, the company came out with some higher performing mountain bikes, including the Sierra, also built in Asia”. Jay Pridmore is a professional writer but Jim Hurd was a respected Schwinn historian and director of the Schwinn Cycle museum in Chicago. I did try to contact Jim Hurd prior to his passing to no avail, I trust somebody else on the Cabe web site may know a little more about Jim Hurd.

• Reference has been made the 1981 version were sold as frame/fork setup only by the BMX parts department on Forum pages. I think my frame/forks are one of this product one of 9 at least I have seen. More explanation on this comment is needed, a contact with either of the authors would be appreciated. One of the frames, the same as mine is decaled made in Japan.

• Serial numbers for my frame Schwinn BS367823 and another frame being CS472494 and a few others similarly are stamped to the underside of the BB. This is not the prescribed location for Schwinn to stamped for this time period but in the recognised form of LLNNNNNN. The underside of the BB is a place that frames made in Japan can be located. I realise the Serial number marks the date of the frame production, not the selling date and whether the build was completed around the time is uncertain. I have been told by a Schwinn collector that he has seen a 4 year delay in selling a Schwinn cycle as new from its serial number to the final completion number. Schwinn Chicago production did stop in 1983. Most other frames do not have the SN and a final completion number as Schwinn did.

• The prescribed serial number layout for Japanese made frames and location is different for Schwinn US for this time period. The Japanese manufacturer of these frames is not known, but the tubing is Ishiwata, pre 1980. The head tube on my frame is a Schwinn Chicago badge, the factory closed in 1983 but the badge seems to also appear on until 1985 and 86 that I have been told Schwinn continued to use, although the factory had closed. It is also commented the forks originally came with a Unicrown fork much as a Tange TX1200 that is reported to have broken and then all were replaced with a cast fork crown of unknown manufacture and all the frames sold and in stock were replaced.

• These 2 serial numbers, BS367823 and CS472494 do fit an order of being made in 2 consecutive months by letter. They are also within the production number range of Schwinn cycles produced for the 2 consecutive months, not one of these months nor 3 months. I have no doubt they are correct. I have had one Ex Schwinn employee confirm the serial numbers are correct.

• Ishiwata tubing, steerer tube stamping on frame BS367823 is ISHIWATA 3.B. The Ishiwata catologue of pre 1980 includes the frame tubing produced as the MTB range. This type of tubing does not appear to in the post 1980 catalogue. By comparative measuring of my frame tubing, BS367823, it appears to be the Pre 1979 type Ishiwata MTB tubing. The 2 catalogues are not dated exactly but referred to a late 70`s and early 80`s.

• As an aside, Ishiwata being a pre WW2 company, this dating, 3.B, could be as per Japanese Imperial (Showa) calendar that 3 could represent 53rd year thus the date could be 1978 in the Julian calendar, I am trying to confirm this may be the case. This could be lost in translation and history. If the dating represents 1983 for the tubing the Ishiwata the dating could not be later than the frame manufacture start. The frame and fork I have do appear to be of the same time.

• The fork crown is unusual but is similar to what is used on a number of Japanese manufactured MTB frames of the period and also shows on the Trek 1983 850. My comparisons of fork tubing sizes from Ishiwata and Tange record they are different sizes and thus the actual fork crowns may not actually be the same production or time period. A photo I have seen of one of an imported Rocky Mountain Bicycles Ritchey MTB has the same distinctive faux bi-plane fork crowns as my Schwinn frame and the others above. The origin of these fork crowns may be separate to both Ishiwata and Tange but combined with both. I have tried to establish if Ishiwata used the Japanese Imprerial calendar that would use a number 4 for 1981.

• A 1983 Schwinn BMX catalogue page shows the frame being the same as BS367823 referring to the forks as Unifork Tange 141 fork set but BS367823 frame is clearly stamped as Ishiwata. I have not located details to Tange 141 forks but as I say above, may not be the same as the 1983 Tange fork blades that are not the same size as the Ishiwata fork blades.

This catalogue page clearly shows these frames, as my frame is, being different to other Schwinn ATB Sierra frames, King Sting frames, Sidewinder Cruiser frames of the period.

• It is to be considered the 1983 advertising of the frames put to print in 1982 could be the only time they were advertised from 1981, maybe a clearing out of old stock for a closed factory.

• The link to the Schwinn Parts and BMX departments is clearly staed and thus it is point to be clarified even if possible now. Also the comments by Jay Pridmore and Jim Hurd are very relevant.

• The SN is to me clearly the Schwinn US number and not a Japanese manufacturers SN number. Some commentators have drawn attention to the location of the number on the frame as not being the correct location for a US number and the particular letters and numbers indicate a date but they ignore the other letter and numbers. There has been a reference to the Asian Serial Number Guide but I question it being correct as the ASNG for the format used does not align with the Schwinn format as it I have seen ISnnnnnn being an ASNG number. I suspect Schwinn would not use a formatted number in 1983/4 that they had use in previous years due to the legality of serial numbers system. A contact with Bianche, Italy could not clarify the meaning of the ASNG nor could they name the Asian manufacturer. The ASNG writers does state they have no knowledge of what USA manufacturers used as Serial Number format and in my view the Schwinn 1981 legal format of MSnnnnnn does visually match the ASNG but the meaning is not the same.

• The SN found have been commented on representing many thousands of frames made using the ASNG number where the first number represents the year made whereas the Schwinn format indicates only a few months of 1981 manufacturing therefore lesser numbers made and allocated to ATB frames. If the number is taken as a Schwinn number there will be considerable gaps for other Schwinn frames, eg BMX, childrens bikes, road bikes etc filling in the gaps. There are not many of these frames about.

• I have measured and drawn my frame consider it very similar to a 1980 Beezer Off Road Bicycle frame that could have been copied by Schwinn. Or in fact any pre 1981 MTB frame.

• I have also compared my frame to a Specialised Stumpjumper, second series frame that mine is comparable with.

• Refer to this site

http://forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retro-classic/anybody-able-id-schwinn-frameset-69338.html

These frames are not common, even in 1981, and anybody with Schwinn could add clarification.

Is there anybody on The Cabe site who has a little 1981 knowledge.

Regards
Les

View attachment 1645029

View attachment 1645031

Les, what does any of this have to do with the topic of this post? It was originally about the No Hands Book.

It would be best to ask about your frame questions in your own post.

The frame kits were very common, at least on the West Coast. We sold lots of them. We sold them even before they finally appeared in the national Schwinn parts catalog which was only printed yearly. At the four Regional Distribution Centers we mailed monthly sales specials with new items. Lots of these items had nothing to do with Schwinn produced items.

John

I worked at a Schwinn dealer in the late 70's and early 80's in Manhattan Beach, California. I started building custom MTB long before Schwinn ever put any production bike on the market. The guy I worked for pretty much let us build anything we wanted as long as it sold..........LOL Our specialty was custom Spitfires & Cruisers. We were one of the go to shops for "Strandie Cruisers" back in the day since our shop was so close to the beach, and the bicycle path that ran along the local beaches.

From what I remember, the owner of my shop was pretty open to selling anything, but I think the franchise agreement limited what he could put on the sales floor in the way of other brands? He was very good friends with the local Schwinn rep, and had the inside information about Schwinn's troubles in the early 80's, and I believe he had the knowledge that Schwinn was going to close the Chicago factory. He sold the shop in late 81, or early 82 as I believe he saw the writing on the wall, and got out while the getting was good. I worked for the new owners for a few months until they got up to speed with the normal day to day operations, then they fired me to hire one of their family members.

Here I am on a custom Champion Cruise/MTB I built for myself in 1979. This was years before Schwinn put a MTB on our sales floor.

View attachment 1831782


From what I remember, the owner of my shop was pretty open to selling anything, but I think the franchise agreement limited what he could put on the sales floor in the way of other brands?

I would need to see that "in writing".

It never said that either in the earlier issued Schwinn Franchise Agreement, or the later issued Schwinn Dealer Agreement. This is how stories start, and later become facts when they are retold over and over.

I would welcome someone to post an Original Schwinn Dealer Agreement that disputes my claim.

John

 

[Xlobsterman]

I would need to see that "in writing".

It never said that either in the earlier issued Schwinn Franchise Agreement, or the later issued Schwinn Dealer Agreement. This is how stories start, and later become facts when they are retold over and over.

I would welcome someone to post an Original Schwinn Dealer Agreement that disputes my claim.

John

I didn't claim it as a fact, since there was a ? mark at the end of that statement. I stated I thought it was a thing, and was based on what I could remember from my memory banks. If you say it wasn't correct, I will believe you, as you were way more involved with the inner workings of the company!

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

A documentary is in the works inspired by a major studio execs reading of 'No Hands' and
enthusiasm for the brand and its legacy, a love letter to Schwinn they are calling it, and not dwelling on the
financial debacle at the end.
Should be out on possibly NetFlix, Hulu etc in roughly a year.. Will be shopped at film festivals
for distribution and prominent place streaming somewhere to be found easily....
sounds like a good effort covering the Schwinn brand and the history.

Good to hear Bob, Thanks for the update.

It's been roughly 30 years since Schwinn Bicycle Company melted down. We have the luxury today of being able to be Monday Morning quarterbacks. I think we all have figured out that the No Hands book touched on some of the Schwinn problems, but it was far from being totally historically accurate about all of the Schwinn history.

It was a very emotional time period when they wrote that book and it seemed like everyone interviewed had a different axe to grind. Many of the key people are no longer available to be re-interviewed, I hope they research the documentary enough to not just repeat the same old inaccurate stories. It seems that everyone has their own "correct" opinion as to "what happened", just look at a few of the comments on this post already that are just wrong. I'm not sure why people keep repeating Schwinn missed the MTB market? Schwinn not only missed the BMX market before the MTB market, but they also actually fought the BMX market at the start. What would have happened if they told Sig Mork and Al Fritz we don't want to sell Sting Rays because kids will get hurt riding the bike?

The No Hands book did their best to show and document all of the things they claimed Schwinn did wrong. But today, just look at what happened to the entire Independent Bicycle Dealer segment. For the most part, they are all gone. The surviving brands (Trek/Giant/Specialized) all have/had factory stores (for which Schwinn was criticized by opening one store in an area no dealer wanted), and they have all tried selling models or accessories consumer direct. In short, the entire IBD industry has changed in the last 30 years, and not for the better, IMO. Kids today don't even care to ride a bike, or get their driving license when they turn 16, it's a different time. Schwinn was just the first to fall to the changing market trends.

Finally, no history of what happened to the Schwinn Bicycle Company will be complete until they dig into the Schwinn Family Trust. Edward and Richard Schwinn "took all the heat" because they were in charge, but their hands were tied on many of the large things they needed to address. The Family trust just milked it right to the end. What happened to Schwinn has been sadly repeated many times over and over in old icon American Business.

John