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Phantom Reference Thread

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Freqman1

Riding a '37 Dayton Super Streamline
Love'm or hate'm the Schwinn Phantom is probably the most well known classic bike. The purpose of this thread is to share your knowledge of what "right" looks like when it comes to Phantoms. This is not a "Show Us Your Phantoms" thread because one already exists. This is to help those considering the purchase of a Phantom or just wanting to know more about what is correct for the given year learn what they should be looking for. Pics of repo parts for reference showing the 'tell' is encouraged. For instance showing an original and repo fender and pointing out the differences in the repo.

History: A lot of debate exists as to whether the Phantom was introduced as a 1949 model or a 1950 model. What is known is that the Phantom was introduced about the first week of Sep 1949. The red and green bikes were introduced shortly thereafter and by Christmas of 1950 you could have any of the three colors. There is some variety on the early Phantoms such as either a no rivet, Phantom style seat or Mesinger B1, no guard decal, and a Wald reflector is found on some early bikes.

The girls model was a one year only (1955) and was available in black, red, green, and blue. These colors were available the entire year so despite the story sometimes circulated of the blue being a Christmas only color it was available from the beginning. There was also a 24" boys model offered in 1953 and 1954 which was available in black, red, and green. While debated it appears that there were at least a few (some say 50) blue boys (26") Phantoms produced. The legend says that these were Christmas bikes. The only example I have ever seen surfaced on EBay in 2009. It was found at a car show in PA (Hershey?) by a picker and was about a condition 5 or 6 as found. I was the under bidder and tried for two years to find out where it went but the most I could get out of the seller was that it went to California. I only wish I had got the serial to see if this supported the Christmas story.

The Phantoms from 1949/50-1953 were solid colors. The Opalescent red and green were introduced in 1954 and in 1959 these changed to the Radiant paint which is a little brighter. Even before the change to the Opalescent colors in '54 the Phantom started losing some of its standard accessories and instead these became options you had to purchase separately. In the mid '50s both the chainring and fork were changed. The last year, 1959, Phantoms were much different than their predecessors. Besides the switch to Radiant green and red the seat was changed to a tan vinyl seat which except for color was the same used on the later Cycle Trucks, Wasp, and Heavy Duty. All decals on a '59 are different as well as the pedals being changed to the bow type found on the middleweights and the rear brake is usually a Mark IV.

Lastly I would like to address restored Phantoms. Unlike cars the serial number on a bike tells you very little. A person can build a Phantom using a balloon tire cantiIever frame from the appropriate time frame. Unless the bike was documented as a Phantom before it was restored there is no way to positively identify a restored bike as a genuine Phantom. I look forward to your posts and a civil exchange of knowledge and ideas concerning these bikes. V/r Shawn
 
Frame pat'd decal--The Phantom, except for maybe '59, had the 2151533 decal. My '59 has no decal. V/r Shawn

R1.JPG
 
Another important difference occurring 1954-55 is the old and new style Springer fork without a lock . Albeit, there's a few 55-6 that have an Old Style Springer as, the locking crown was still an option or upgrade. And that, this new style was used until some time in the early 70's and reintroduced about 1980. However the 80's and later difference was in part# 2802, Fork Crown. Rather than being solid, as shown in parts list, the crown's pivot tubes are welded to it.

Also very important is that; the Phantom front fenders for old and new springers are not interchangeable. One could get a repop fender for old style but no repops, at least that I've ever seen, for new style Phantom Springer fork. You would need to drill a new hole in fender or create a home made adaptor to mount on the 'New Style' Springer. There is no current information as to whether Schwinn made an adaptor to retrofit either; the old to new or visa versa.

62parts10b-jpg-jpg.jpg



62parts11b-jpg-jpg.jpg
 
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dont know if this copied or not but a guy has a video of the newer schwinn with the chrome fender and self contained headlitehttps://youtu.be/03NP3iZ4C_0 some of these came with leftover 95 phantom frames
 
part number 2935, there ate 2 different parts,the angle of the bend is diff for old style and new style springer,one of the reasons for the different fenders and mounting point,the newer springer has a piece hanging straight gown to mount the fender,the older style has an offset type of moutin tab,hence different hole locations in the fender,so there are 2 types of front fenders for the new style springer,one has the original type headlite,the other is shorter in the front and takes the self contained plastic light that sits on top of the fender[no cutout]the plastic lite does not fit older fenders,the new type fender has a different radius,i have 2 sets of these fenders and lites,the schwinn reps were giving them away when they were discontinude,the rear fits on an older balloon frame but needs some trimming at the bottom by the chain guard
 
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there is a phantom on ebay with serial g518xxx,dec 11 1950,so is that supose 2b a 51?is listed in the craigslist etc thread on this site
 
Boys Phantom Seats: There are only four different seats found on the boys Phantoms. The very early bikes (late 1949-1950) are found with either a Mesinger B1 non-sliding rail seat (uncommon) or the Phantom 'no-rivet' seat. From 1951-1958 Phantoms were equipped with the Phantom 'rivet' seat. For the last year (1959) Schwinn used a tan vinyl Mesinger seat. I have never seen the tan seat legitimately used on any other year and never the black vinyl seat as found on Wasps, Cycle Trucks, and Heavy Dutys. All seats except the '59 seat were genuine leather with semi-gloss pans and chrome beehive springs. The seat used on the Anniversary Phantoms is almost an exact copy of the Phantom 'rivet' seat. Another feature I found on both my late '49 and '54 seats was that the nut used to tighten the seat to the post is 11/16", the '59 seat nut is 5/8", and the repo (Anniversary) seat is 9/16" nut. I'd be interested to hear from owners of '55-58 bikes to see what size the nuts are on these. I suspect at some point these may have went to 5/8" as well. The following posts will illustrate the characteristics and differences of these seats.

Late 1949-1950 Mesinger B1 non-sliding rail seat
DSC_0145.JPG


DSC_0146.JPG


Late 1949-1950 Phantom 'no-rivet' seat
DSC_0366.JPG


DSC_0111.JPG


1951-1958 Phantom 'rivet' seat (missing wear tab)
DSC_0113.JPG


1959 tan vinyl seat
DSC_0121.JPG


DSC_0122.JPG


There are differences between the no-rivet and rivet seat pans. The punctures on the pans are different. The no-rivet seat has three punctures while the rivet seat, to include the repo seat, have six punctures as shown in my diagram and an example of a 'puncture' shown on the back of a rivet seat.
DSC_0147.JPG


DSC_0116.JPG


The chassis rivets differ between the no-rivet, rivet, and repo seats. There are at least two styles of rivets found on no-rivet seats.

Late 1949 chassis rivets on no-rivet seat
DSC_0125.JPG


Unknown year no rivet seat
DSC_0131.JPG


1951-1958 rivet seat
DSC_0126.JPG


Reproduction Anniversary Seat (1995)
DSC_0128.JPG


The springs are the same for both the no-rivet and rivet seats but are different than the Anniversary seat. The originals have more coils on the top than the Anniversary seat

Late 1949-1958 seat spring
DSC_0143.JPG


Anniversary seat spring--Also notice the "PERMACO" sticker which is a sure fire indicator of a repo (Anniversary) seat
DSC_0142.JPG


The seat tab inscription is slightly different between original and repo seats. The seat rivets between the original and repo both measure 8mm but the repo appear to be a little flatter that the originals which have a slight dome (not shown)

Original tab
DSC_0129.JPG


Repo tab
DSC_0130.JPG


Lastly the chassis rails on the original seats do not have any markings. The repo seat is marked "Mesinger Made in USA" in a box. I'd be interested to hear from owners of '55-'58 Phantoms if any original seats have this marking.

Original
DSC_0118.JPG


Repo
DSC_0120.JPG






V/r Shawn
 
Boys Phantom Seats: There are only four different seats found on the boys Phantoms. The very early bikes (late 1949-1950) are found with either a Mesinger B1 non-sliding rail seat (uncommon) or the Phantom 'no-rivet' seat. From 1951-1958 Phantoms were equipped with the Phantom 'rivet' seat. For the last year (1959) Schwinn used a tan vinyl Mesinger seat. I have never seen the tan seat legitimately used on any other year and never the black vinyl seat as found on Wasps, Cycle Trucks, and Heavy Dutys. All seats except the '59 seat were genuine leather with semi-gloss pans and chrome beehive springs. The seat used on the Anniversary Phantoms is almost an exact copy of the Phantom 'rivet' seat. Another feature I found on both my late '49 and '54 seats was that the nut used to tighten the seat to the post is 11/16", the '59 seat nut is 5/8", and the repo (Anniversary) seat is 9/16" nut. I'd be interested to hear from owners of '55-58 bikes to see what size the nuts are on these. I suspect at some point these may have went to 5/8" as well. The following posts will illustrate the characteristics and differences of these seats.

Late 1949-1950 Mesinger B1 non-sliding rail seat
View attachment 925667

View attachment 925668

Late 1949-1950 Phantom 'no-rivet' seat
View attachment 925669

View attachment 925670

1951-1958 Phantom 'rivet' seat (missing wear tab)
View attachment 925671

1959 tan vinyl seat
View attachment 925672

View attachment 925673

There are differences between the no-rivet and rivet seat pans. The punctures on the pans are different. The no-rivet seat has three punctures while the rivet seat, to include the repo seat, have six punctures as shown in my diagram and an example of a 'puncture' shown on the back of a rivet seat.
View attachment 925694

View attachment 925696

The chassis rivets differ between the no-rivet, rivet, and repo seats. There are at least two styles of rivets found on no-rivet seats.

Late 1949 chassis rivets on no-rivet seat
View attachment 925706

Unknown year no rivet seat
View attachment 925708

1951-1958 rivet seat
View attachment 925711

Reproduction Anniversary Seat (1995)
View attachment 925718

The springs are the same for both the no-rivet and rivet seats but are different than the Anniversary seat. The originals have more coils on the top than the Anniversary seat

Late 1949-1958 seat spring
View attachment 925719

Anniversary seat spring--Also notice the "PERMACO" sticker which is a sure fire indicator of a repo (Anniversary) seat
View attachment 925720

The seat tab inscription is slightly different between original and repo seats. The seat rivets between the original and repo both measure 8mm but the repo appear to be a little flatter that the originals which have a slight dome (not shown)

Original tab
View attachment 925725

Repo tab
View attachment 925726

Lastly the chassis rails on the original seats do not have any markings. The repo seat is marked "Mesinger Made in USA" in a box. I'd be interested to hear from owners of '55-'58 Phantoms if any original seats have this marking.

Original
View attachment 925727

Repo
View attachment 925728





V/r Shawn
Literature i found shows non riveted saddles later than 1950 and who knows whats going on with the scripted tank decals.

Screenshot_2018-12-27-21-48-04.png
 
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