Picked up this Old Armstrong Today...

[Schwinny]

Spent most of the day on this old guy. I think it will be done-ish in three weeks or so.
I picked up all the chrome plated parts today, they came out pretty nice.
The frame will be dry enough in about two weeks to start putting back together. It had some pocking from corrosion so I decided to paint it instead of powder coating. Nothing bad at all, but it would mess up a good powder coat finish. All it needed was a little glazing putty and sandable bonding primer.
In the pic of the bottom bracket bare, the paint was so thick there that you couldn't see the standing cast numbers. I read this sucker was dipped and baked 4 times. I thought I read 3 before, but the catalog definitely describes it as a phosphorous dip and then 4 dips of finish baked on.
Does that standing number on the BB reveal anything more?
If it can be all done by the 20th of November, I will ride it in the 27 mile part of the Tour de Tucson with other vintage bikes.

 

[juvela]

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thanks so much for posting this update; wonderful to read that she is coming right along

the raised number on the frame's bottom bracket shell is from the shell's manufacturer, Brampton

it is a stock number for the model of the shell and has no connection to the manufacturer of the cycle


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[Schwinny]

Ran into a couple snafus so its been sitting a while.
The Spokes had to be ordered and I had to re-do the front mudguard due to some K-razy paint incompatibility. But other wise it's coming together nicely.
I have finally settled on this being a 1938 model 28 Moth Sport. To-which a Cyclo 3spd derailleur system was added later. The original chain was lengthened and the Cyclo gear set is dated 1941, which strikes a chord I me. Just think what was going on in Birmingham England in 1941, and here are hard parts for bicycles being manufactured there. Amazing.

This, and a peek under the covers gets me thinking.
I am going to need learned advice on this. @juvela , @GTs58 , @dnc1

After pouring over the 36' Armstrong Catalog until I can now recite it in my sleep, the identifying factor that makes this a Model 28 Moth Sport is the flip/flop rear hub. The Sports came with a fixed gear AND freewheel rear hub. That is exactly what this bike has. Stamped Armstrong and everything.
Also, stating in the back of the Catalog, all bikes can be had with many upgrades. The Cyclo system was one of these options.
So.
Considering that the Cyclo System is of a later manufacture and installation, Should I put the rear hub back to its original fixed/freewheel configuration?
Also to consider is that if I do put the Cyclo back on the bike, that is its home until the bike's next paint job. The clamps will divit the paint real good on the top bar and the chain stay. This lightly bothers me. Putting protectors underneath defeats the purpose of restored original and as you will see later when it is all together and getting its glamour shots, the paint is real good.

Any and all thoughts are welcome from anyone...

Heres a peek....

 

[juvela]

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thanks so much for the update

image of cycle partially cloaked by blue plaid shirt is reminiscent of Tempest Storm performing a fan dance...

@dnc1 is sure to have some considerable illumination to shed here...


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[Schwinny]

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thanks so much for the update

image of cycle partially cloaked by blue plaid shirt is reminiscent of Tempest Storm performing a fan dance...

@dnc1 is sure to have some considerable illumination to shed here...


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It's Two plaid shirts.... and and old t-shirt or two.
Don't want to accidentally smudge all the fingerprints.....

 

[Oilit]

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thanks so much for the update

image of cycle partially cloaked by blue plaid shirt is reminiscent of Tempest Storm performing a fan dance...

@dnc1 is sure to have some considerable illumination to shed here...


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Thanks Juvela! I looked up Tempest Storm and after reading about her then went on to read about about her fourth husband Herb Jeffries. Sometimes the people you've never heard of are more interesting than the ones you hear about every day.

 

[juvela]

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Tempest Storm was fond of recounting her romantic evening spent with one Mr. Mickey Rooney

she spoke proudly of being able to coax "just one more," um, outburst from him quite late in their session...

oh that we should all experience such "difficulties"


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[juvela]

It's Two plaid shirts.... and and old t-shirt or two.
Don't want to accidentally smudge all the fingerprints.....

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ah, thank you for this clarification

they certainly do appear "veteran" and one would not wish to harm them in any manner or form...


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[dnc1]

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thanks so much for the update

image of cycle partially cloaked by blue plaid shirt is reminiscent of Tempest Storm performing a fan dance...

@dnc1 is sure to have some considerable illumination to shed here...


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Why @juvela thinks that I would be able to shed light on Ms. Tempest Storm and her considerable fan dancing skills is beyond me!!!
But I jest, despite now wishing to investigate said ladies reputation a little further as @Oilit has done.

Personally @Schwinny this is a bit of a conundrum for me regarding your question on the choice of gearing.
As you may know I'm someone who is very keen on actually riding my bikes and therefore the period upgrade of the 'Cyclo' derailleur would these days be a most welcome addition.
I am also more fond of original patina and if that system was fitted to the bike when found that is how I would use it.

However, the majority of my esteemed riding buddies and V-CC members would very much appreciate the high quality of your restoration work and would probably stick with the original fixed/free option that would have been the "clubman's" choice at the time.

If you're worried about damaging the paint, you can do what people did back in the day. You often find on old bikes over here that when period additions were fixed to frame tubing that a couple of turns of cotton handlebar tape were used under the lever or derailleur clamp; you may still get a divot in the paint but it will be lessened. And anyway this divot will only be visible when the clamp is eventually removed.

So what I'm saying really is that either choice has its merits, both could be argued over as to which is more suitable "till the cows come home".
So whatever you decide will be the right decision.

All I ask is that you ultimately ride this lovely bicycle, and completely experience the pleasure of owning it.

 

[Schwinny]

I have a question of correctness that I've been pondering and need input.

The bike is finished and together for the most part, but in line with my last question, I changed gears (so to speak).
I've decided to make this bike present as it was made. After-all, I've gone to all this trouble to bring back a pre-war bike that was basically intact. In line with that, the rear tire is still off and the flip/flop hub will soon have its original gearing.
I'm going to fully restore the Cyclo 3 speed kit separately and decide later wether to put it on or not. The shifter and bracketry is now a little jewel but the rest still needs help and shouldn't go back on the bike right now.
This is an un-usual thing for me in that my natural inclination is to make everything better, cooler and more "hi-performance." Thats all subjective though. This will be my first "correct" bike.

In-line with that, I've had a nag about the decals and its kind of an important question concerning originality.

The question is..... is this a Reynolds 531 frame and fork or not?
Important because there is a decal involved... or not.

The frame is obviously made of a high tensile alloy. That is evident by how thin the tubing is. At least half the thickness of a Schwinn regular mild steel tube frame I have here for comparison.
Comparison;
Schwinn 19" mens Racer frame and fork is almost 12 lbs (11.8)
This 22" frame and fork is 7.1 lbs.
A significant difference. Obviously different metals but is this 531?
531 officially launched in 1936. By the serial number, this bike is most likely a 38' (the Cyclo is a 41')

Consider the 36' Armstrong Catalog specifies that the models above the sport are made of Reynolds High Manganese "Super Steel," but does not mention material in the Sport description.
And the depictions of the bikes show some sort of decal under the seat. It says those bikes are delivered at 26 lbs. Also to consider is that the rest of the parts on the bike cannot be considered lightweight by any measure. Differences in the top level and the Sport models are fenders, brakes and saddles. There are weight differences in these parts for sure but "mud guards" are both celluloid.
The Sports are mentioned delivered at 29 pounds.
These are still VERY light bikes by lightweight 1930's standards.

Then there is the matter of the decal. Did my bike have it or not.
Here is a rub..... maaaayabe.

There were 3 decals still present. Head seat stay and rear fender. they were complete ruined of course and would flake off easily with a fingernail. The downtube Armstrong-Moth decal was completely gone on both sides. You could see the outline of where it was but until I found what it was supposed to look like I couldn't tell what was there.
when sandblasting the frame, this area cleaned off differently and you could easily see where the decal was but still couldn't tell what it might have said. The paint under had been protected for a longer time and was more solid.
The area under the seat at the seat tube was similar in that as it was sandblasted, you could tell that something had protected the paint under at some time but what it was could not bee seen. Hard to tell how big it was as one of the issues with the paint was a creeping moldy rust that was under nearly all the paint.
What was there could have been many things including a tax stamp, license sticker etc.
It was in the same area as depicted in the Armstrong Catalog being where the mystery decal would have been under the saddle.
So the real question is; Do I put a period correct 531 decal under the saddle?
The 36' Armstrong catalog was most likely printed up in 35' and didn't reflect Reynolds new # designation for their best steel. Before then would have been a "Best High Manganese" decal.

Tube sets and decals were most likely purchased in quantity and would be used up before new versions were purchased. Or at least marketed differently after the newer was available.
By 38' were they using 531 on the Sports also?
Were there still High Manganese frames along side 531 frames.... 2 years later...

Then....
As you go through the 36' catalog from the Sport models down, they all are listed at 29 pounds and don't mention the alloy. I didn't weigh this bike before disassembly.

My current idea is to have the correct decal on standby. Then when all together in original trim, weigh the bike. If it is significantly under 29 pounds, 531 decal. At or over, no decal.
Does that sound right?
Anyone have any other speculations or validations?

I think the reveal will be in January after the shakedown run.
Although H. LLoyd recommends it for their decals, I decide not to clear coat the bike/decals. It wasn't that way when new and this bike will only see sun occasionally. I think a thick coat of wax will be enough.