Prewar Western Flyer

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tripple3

Riding Miles; Collecting Smiles
Sep 25, 2012
7,496
Beach Cities, CA 92708
A friend of mine just picked this up for me at a swap meet but he won't tell me where it is. I like this bike. I know it's Cleveland welding it has a morrow rear hub that I have not cleaned yet to see a date straight down tube very cool forks it had mudflaps as what's hanging off the front and rear fenders. Curved fender braces peaked fenders with two tone pinstriping no holes in the fenders for light. I will get the serial number soon just wanted to post some pics.
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Jeff54

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Sep 11, 2013
2,241
Ft Myers, Florida
A friend of mine just picked this up for me at a swap meet but he won't tell me where it is. I like this bike. I know it's Cleveland welding it has a morrow rear hub that I have not cleaned yet to see a date straight down tube very cool forks it had mudflaps as what's hanging off the front and rear fenders. Curved fender braces peaked fenders with two tone pinstriping no holes in the fenders for light. I will get the serial number soon just wanted to post some pics.]
Looks good, well made bike and has the conditions for pre-war fit too. Like, 36-7 or so,,..

Plus, with the right cleaners ya might salvage the paint under the 'patina' (lol), rust as well! Nice looking rims too!

Do I spy a little bend in fork? an easy fix.
 

HARPO

I live for the CABE
Dec 28, 2010
1,718
Floral Park, NY, United States
Hmmm...I didn't think anything rusted in California....:rolleyes:
 

tripple3

Riding Miles; Collecting Smiles
Sep 25, 2012
7,496
Beach Cities, CA 92708
Hmmm...I didn't think anything rusted in California....:rolleyes:
It just depends where in California it is. Along the coast stuff will rust overnight with the Salt air.
This bike still has the 43 wartime plate attached to it eclipse front and rear with 11 gauge spokes no date stamp though.
Morrow brake arm is there.
Also here is a pic of the serial number starting with the G
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I think 38 or 39 or 40 but I don't know what do you think? Does the arrow on the front hub mean take the axle out that way?

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Jeff54

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Sep 11, 2013
2,241
Ft Myers, Florida
It just depends where in California it is. Along the coast stuff will rust overnight with the Salt air.
This bike still has the 43 wartime plate attached to it eclipse front and rear with 11 gauge spokes no date stamp though.
Morrow brake arm is there.
Also here is a pic of the serial number starting with the G
I think 38 or 39 or 40 but I don't know what do you think?
I'd take that 36 on the hub as the year, and followed with 11 as November, although dating morrow hubs is supposa-ta be a letter,
"##E = 1935
##F = 1936
##G = 1937
##H = 1938
##I = 1939
##J = 1940
##K = 1941"

But it's also because and I'm no expert and will have to refer you to the, page here for dating Cleveland welding co frame. With regret because, it's complicated and not complete. whoever started it, didn't finish, was given data that didn't get listed, and passed to another early on who also didn't complete, and now others who have the just of it but fail in final posting detail. . lots of bike date codes listed as to what year they may be too but, the poster/reply did not cite or add in a quote to whom the bike's question refers. . Yet I am confident that straight frame was discontinued by 1939.

The thread at least speculates a period for that letter G,. So, If I am correct as to issue of the straight bar, adding speculation about that hub,, that G should fit in the time frame below 39.

Can not cite the exact topic currently but Search the threads for Cleveland welding date codes, all ya gotta do is find the G. .
 
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tripple3

Riding Miles; Collecting Smiles
Sep 25, 2012
7,496
Beach Cities, CA 92708
Dating a Morrow...easy CWC...experts please....

It is confusing... I looked at all those pages for awhile... Morrow dating is easy. I have a 37, 40, 41 all stamped with a letter and 1/4 of particular year... all with 36 13 as well which is 36 spokes, 13 gauge ... These hubs are stamped 36 11 Bigger gauge spokes no letter/number stamp on either....
I am thinking some kind of Paperboy Special or ???


I'd take that 36 on the hub as the year, and followed with 11 as November, although dating morrow hubs is supposa-ta be a letter,
"##E = 1935
##F = 1936
##G = 1937
##H = 1938
##I = 1939
##J = 1940
##K = 1941"

But it's also because and I'm no expert and will have to refer you to the, page here for dating Cleveland welding co frame. With regret because, it's complicated and not complete. whoever started it, didn't finish, was given data that didn't get listed, and passed to another early on who also didn't complete, and now others who have the just of it but fail in final posting detail. .. Yet I am confident that straight frame was discontinued by 1939.

The thread at least speculates a period for that letter G,. So, If I am correct as to issue of the straight bar, adding speculation about that hub,, that G should fit in the time frame below 39.

Can not cite the exact topic currently but Search the threads for Cleveland welding date codes.
 
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rustjunkie

Moderator
Staff member
Jul 11, 2012
13,369
Monrovia, CA 91016
www.rustjunkies.com
When you open the hub check the date codes on the parts. If they're the same or the majority are, then IMO it's a safe bet that's the mfr date of the hub.
I'll bet you one Mexican Coke (cold) payable at the next Monrovia ride that the parts will have "I" stamps ;)
 
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Jeff54

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Sep 11, 2013
2,241
Ft Myers, Florida
It is confusing... I looked at all those pages for awhile... Morrow dating is easy. I have a 37, 40, 41 all stamped with a letter and 1/4 of particular year... all with 36 13 as well which is 36 spokes, 13 gauge ... These hubs are stamped 36 11 Bigger gauge spokes no letter/number stamp on either....
I am thinking some kind of Paperboy Special or ???
Yeah thanks rustjunky for that link.


tripple3, I browsed to it cause I've gone over that whole tred dozens of times trying to make some sense of it, including, if I coud thought I'd outline it to clear it up, but it's to dang complex, yet figured I could hunt something down to help ya figure this out..

This might help ya:
Prewar Serial Numbers

Regarding serial numbers, the picture that has emerged to date is that most of the prewar production used a serial number system that begins with a letter and is followed by 5 numbers. It appears that these numbers are sequential and the system starts with “A” and proceeds through “K”. The K serial numbers were used in 1941 and then, instead of moving to “L” the system returned to “A”. It is my opinion that these second series “A” bikes and perhaps the end of the “K” series constitute what would be considered the 1942 model line. This line probably entered production in the fall of 1941 and the “A” serialed bikes were likely made at the tail end of 1941 and into the first few months of 1942.

I may be off base citing 39 discontinued straight bar, but the thread is to dam confusing.. Regardless, citing the op, he says K was last letter in 41, and at the end of 41 they reverted back to A which would mean A-42, B-43, C-44 etc into 1949-50 when Cleveland began stamping the Cw after the serial set. . so, if his logic is correct on prewar bikes; he's saying just go backwards from K, K-41, J-40, I-39, H-38, G-37!!..
most especially because, you have the drop stand ear on rear drop outs, An 'G' post war would be 1947-8, and drop stand ears on rear drop-outs were discontinued, 'I believe' by then:

Which makes yours: G prewar = 1937!! :)
 
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tripple3

Riding Miles; Collecting Smiles
Sep 25, 2012
7,496
Beach Cities, CA 92708
Thanks Jeff I read through that thread as well and I saw C 37 I was hoping for a D maybe 38 I have a G I don't think each letter means a year
https://vimeo.com/123894194
This is a knockout hub I have been told cool as can be.
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Pic reference of another Morrow I have

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jkent

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
May 3, 2012
3,961
44
Toney, Alabama
Those hubs could be worth a good chunk of $$$.
Anyone looking for Morrow Eclipse hubs for a military bike would give good money for them.
JKent
 

Jeff54

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Sep 11, 2013
2,241
Ft Myers, Florida
Thanks Jeff I read through that thread as well and I saw C 37 I was hoping for a D maybe 38 I have a G I don't think each letter means a year

This is a knockout hub I have been told cool as can be.

Pic reference of another Morrow I have
The hub is free floating?/ concur, Whaaatt?? lol.. Ingenious! What's to stop that wheel from "free floating" into your danged rear bars, fenders and chain!.

And as far as C being 37,, that's the problem with that dang thread, it's a fricken hodgepodge of posts that don't fit into the checker board puzzle so well..

But that quote by the op, does make the most sense. More sense than most anything else inside there.

I had not completely understood it previously, in fact, as overall the whole is so confusing but..

It sets up the reason for the confusion for the letter reversion that makes it so tough.. You have to unite the letter and drop out to discern the correct letter to its date. .
because of CWC's early abandonment of the letter and 5 number set which begins to start a new date sequence, addition of the Cw stamp after the set, it gets more confusing!!..

But, that's what post war is missing.. take the end of 41 as a K, and new set as an A.. 42-A, 43-B, follow through until the Cw stamp appears,, 1948 or so?? and the following years CWC uses a Letter preceding the Cw stamp, ACw. BCw until 1951 CWC puts the year "51 Cw".

So, early war letter sets of A-1942, B-1943 are also deducible by the changes in the rear drop-out used, then the Cw stamp indicates a set change. You could take that backwards too, '51cw-1951, BCw=1950 ACw=1949 and Cw could or would =1948. A 1942, B 1942, C-1944, D-1945, E-1946, F-1947 and if there's extra letters issued mid year they could squeeze into the year span preceding the Cw stamp which you can get to by counting backwards from 51Cw. .

Following that logic, and because that whole thread is so mixed up,, counting the letters backward pre-war is a piece of cake.

Or lets just say, it's the dammed easiest way out of the reckless riddle. [grin]

And I'll add, CWC didn't always make it so simple on their bikes, try dating this CWC, Western Flyer pre-war BB. Only the rear dropout helps narrow it down to 39-41.
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tripple3

Riding Miles; Collecting Smiles
Sep 25, 2012
7,496
Beach Cities, CA 92708
What to do....

I'm actually looking at this bike trying to figure out what I want to do to it. What level of cleaning, polishing??
I have a crusty original bike that came to me for what it is. My Challenger came from a collection; a discard. I love it.
I have wanted as many Ohio Mfgrs as I could get in my budget, timing, and shed. CWC has been on my list; this one is pretty awesome the more I look at it.
I delivered 150 newspapers 2 mornings a week in Huntington Beach on any bike that would take it until I broke it. We could not afford a Schwinn, but I wanted 1 forever...until I started driving.
This bike would have been better than anything I ever owned to deliver papers on. So I'm stoked to get it.
Sometimes I think polishing all the lines and removing all the crust is like trying to restore my Mom. She's perfect with all her wrinkles and grey hair and "age" spots she call them. I would never take that away.
Its just a bike though seriously; I want to ride it. I probably won't have the patience to do much. I want to tear it apart and replace every bearing with new balls.
repack and Ride... and then see....
It won't be until I find a shop that has my bearings on hand. I have a few to choose from...

Alright, back to wrenching, tripple3, you're burnin' daylight here: we expect to see that bike on the road for tomorrow's What bike did you ride today? post.
;)
 
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Jeff54

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Sep 11, 2013
2,241
Ft Myers, Florida
I'm actually looking at this bike trying to figure out what I want to do to it. What level of cleaning, polishing??
I have a crusty original bike that came to me for what it is. My Challenger came from a collection; a discard. I love it.
I have wanted as many Ohio Mfgrs as I could get in my budget, timing, and shed. CWC has been on my list; this one is pretty awesome the more I look at it.
I delivered 150 newspapers 2 mornings a week in Huntington Beach on any bike that would take it until I broke it. We could not afford a Schwinn, but I wanted 1 forever...until I started driving.
This bike would have been better than anything I ever owned to deliver papers on. So I'm stoked to get it.
Sometimes I think polishing all the lines and removing all the crust is like trying to restore my Mom. She's perfect with all her wrinkles and grey hair and "age" spots she call them. I would never take that away.
Its just a bike though seriously; I want to ride it. I probably won't have the patience to do much. I want to tear it apart and replace every bearing with new balls.
repack and Ride... and then see....
It won't be until I find a shop that has my bearings on hand. I have a few to choose from...
There's quite a few touts about using this: oxalic acid. It's easy to buy and peps swear that it removes the rust and saves the paint and major bonus, your plating will be nickel, if you're not very carful it'll wipe right off. . I've never tired it but if I'd your bike, it would be 1st thing to conceder. wouldn't touch it with steal wool, Nor the paint with any abrasives, not even a plastic kitchen pot scrubber. no other rust eating agents, but something soft like olalic acid. Somebody has mentioned a new WD-40 rust removing product with great results, but might be more pricy.

There's many a bikes shown looking similar to yours with incredible results. so, hunting down a good safe rust remover that does not touch the paint or even worse, scratch that nickel, is a must do in my book. Then after, you can conceder your options for tossing news print.

You are likely to be very surprised once you uncover that rust to see that, there's very high odds the bulk of it is on top of the original paint. those pin- stripes may return, the white can be very flaky if you touch it too.

I can see the pitting on your paint, but it's more likely growth, organic rust: 'Iron Bacteria: These nuisance bacteria combine iron (or manganese) and oxygen to form deposits of "rust," bacterial cells' that have grown over the paint, verses under. In the case; those are not under mining pits but over growth piles piercing through tiny, tiny even microscopic holes in the paint and chrome/nickel plating that have grown over it all. . . .

If you can get that rust off without etching or scratching the paint and nickel you could see it return to close as possible to that burgundy red you see under the bottom bracket and at least a matte finish, nickel-silver verses spray painting the nickel. . . after that you can coat it with something to protect it further on.

It's what drew my attention to your bike, 'Iron Bacteria', a little x-ray vision, those rims look so nice, made me wonder how cool that bike would look if cleaned carefully. And I have a western flyer with that burgundy, it's nice but, in my case, I've been slowly trying to get the house paint off to reveal that color,, much harder task.
 
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tripple3

Riding Miles; Collecting Smiles
Sep 25, 2012
7,496
Beach Cities, CA 92708
I say service,wipe down & ride as-is, ala
I started the service tore apart the front hub went and bought all new bearings at a local bike shop that has been there since I was a kid. I found out that my serial number starting with G makes my bike 1940 thank you Jim from Jaf/co
It's a standard model Western Flyer with special ordered heavy duty Hubs and spokes how cool is that…
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parts list in the island Catalog give me the bearing sizes I need to get; thank you Scott rustjunkie. I am taking one step at a time and don't know when I will get to this next but probably as soon as I get a few hours again. I think I am the first one to get to tear it apart for many many years. the only thing the guy at the swap meet said was it has been hanging for a long time…

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rollfaster

Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
Dec 28, 2012
8,517
53
Ol' st. Lou
I say service,wipe down & ride as-is, ala my '37 Merc & Scott's(well, it was his 'til recently) '36 Hawthorne


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I completely agree. I love the look of it. It's a great bike mark. As I've told mike this before, that old merc is still one of the coolest bikes I've seen on this site or anywhere else because of its look. In my eyes, it is a true work of art. Rob.
 
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tripple3

Riding Miles; Collecting Smiles
Sep 25, 2012
7,496
Beach Cities, CA 92708
1940 Western Flyer

I replaced all bearings with new, fresh grease, clean and 1 step wax for now. I found a part in the rear hub dated J4 1940 Oct-Dec
The rack was missing some screws so I left it off. I like the look better without it too.
The bike rides super solid with zero rattles. I have a set of Western Flyer pedals on their way to put a little personal touch to a great original bike.
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