Rear Cassette Swap, Help Please!

[partsguy]

I finally found the right wheels for my Western Flyer hybrid build, but the rear cassette isn't exactly compatible with my frame OR the derailleur I chose. The smallest cog is too close to the frame, the chain grinds against the derailleur nut. The biggest cog is too high up for my derailleur to reach. Also, no room for spacers. I cannot fit anything bigger between my dropouts.

The derailleur is an old school Shimano that came from a used Giant Attraction, the rear rim is a Bontrager with a Shimano HG 8-cog cassette. Model number CS-HG50. I would like to downgrade to either a 6 or 7 cog cassette. Shifters are original, non-indexed, thumb shifters, which are not going anywhere. Any recommendations on how to find a match for a cassette that fits my build?

Thanks!

 

[Muleman121]

A few things to do.... add an axel washer or two to the cassette side. Check the dish on the wheel; you may need to move the rim over to the cassette side a lil. If you don’t want to spread the dropouts ; then you might be able to take a washer out of the left side of the axel. How many teeth is the big cog ? Looks like about a 30 or so.... What chainrings are you running on the front? Chain length can help you get the changer make it up. Looks like it may make it ,based on the pics. Send some pics of the complete drive train. We’ll get er right!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[partsguy]

A few things to do.... add an axel washer or two to the cassette side. Check the dish on the wheel; you may need to move the rim over to the cassette side a lil. If you don’t want to spread the dropouts ; then you might be able to take a washer out of the left side of the axel. How many teeth is the big cog ? Looks like about a 30 or so.... What chainrings are you running on the front? Chain length can help you get the changer make it up. Looks like it may make it ,based on the pics. Send some pics of the complete drive train. We’ll get er right!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I will do that after church. I have not yet picked out a chainring, I put a temporary one on to test this. I may make the temporary one permanent, but it needs blasted and powdercoated.

 

[Muleman121]

Are you going to run a single double or triple?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[partsguy]

Are you going to run a single double or triple?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A double. Old school style, period for the bike.

 

[Muleman121]

Ok


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[partsguy]

Ok


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Girlfriend got sick in the afternoon, never made it home. I will tonight though.

 

[partsguy]

A few things to do.... add an axel washer or two to the cassette side. Check the dish on the wheel; you may need to move the rim over to the cassette side a lil. If you don’t want to spread the dropouts ; then you might be able to take a washer out of the left side of the axel. How many teeth is the big cog ? Looks like about a 30 or so.... What chainrings are you running on the front? Chain length can help you get the changer make it up. Looks like it may make it ,based on the pics. Send some pics of the complete drive train. We’ll get er right!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I actually had to spread the rear of this Western Flyer a wee bit to get this wheel to fit. I have no room at all for shims. Something MUST go on this hub. Either the chain rubs and grinds into the derailleur fitting, or it cannot reach into the highest gear without tearing into the spoke protector. I removed the dust cap on the non-drive side, and saw a series of spacers. I am not sure if I should just start removing spacers though. Yes, this hub is a free-wheel cassette.

I would concur that my derailleur and shifter combo is good, but this cassette is a little too sophisticated. I just do not know what cassette to go with, I never swapped cassettes before.

 

[fattyre]

FYI- Those are not the "right" wheels. That frame and derailleur were designed for a bolt on axle.

That bolt on derailleur hanger is going to give you problems with a quick release wheel & cassette at almost every step. Part of the problem is the hanger anchor that pinches the frame. With what you have, re spacing the hub is required because as you found, the inner anchor/nut gets in the way. Those hangers also are not intended for quick release wheels- the QR axle dose not extend far enough to help hold hanger in the right position and offers questionable clamping force when pinching drop outs and a bolt on derailleur hanger. You could shift the axle over a bit to catch the frame and the hanger, but that still doesn't solve the problem of thin drop outs designed for a bolt on wheel- Minimal purchase point at best especially on the non drive side. (QR frames have thicker drop outs).

Cassettes also add another MM or two over overall width due to the lock ring. Freewheels actually have a bit more clearance by the small cog because of how the mount to the hub. Especially freewheels with 14t small cogs. One more reason that this mix of parts has allot of interference.


You should be able to adjust limits so the derailleur can work in all cogs but you will have to re space the axle and re dish the wheel. And like you noticed, manipulate the drop outs. You probably can only re dish the wheel so much due to spoke length too. Spokes can end up being to short on on side, usually non drive. Loosing spacers is an option, but that you QR axle can be to long.

I'd be far easier to just use a bolt on hub and a 5 or 6 speed freewheel.

7 & 8 speed cassettes are the same overall width, the cogs just get narrower on an 8 speed (and 9 for that matter).

6 speed cassettes (and the required hub needed) are really oddball and were short lived. Most you will find are intended for road bikes and have a small gear spread.

I'd also bet that that chain is for 5, 6 or 7 speeds too. Chain looks too wide for an 8 speed, but hard to tell in the pictures.

Hope this makes any sense! These solutions are tough to convey through a computer. In the bike shop with a knowledgeable employee, 10 min is all you need.

 

[partsguy]

FYI- Those are not the "right" wheels. That frame and derailleur were designed for a bolt on axle.

That bolt on derailleur hanger is going to give you problems with a quick release wheel & cassette at almost every step. Part of the problem is the hanger anchor that pinches the frame. With what you have, re spacing the hub is required because as you found, the inner anchor/nut gets in the way. Those hangers also are not intended for quick release wheels- the QR axle dose not extend far enough to help hold hanger in the right position and offers questionable clamping force when pinching drop outs and a bolt on derailleur hanger. You could shift the axle over a bit to catch the frame and the hanger, but that still doesn't solve the problem of thin drop outs designed for a bolt on wheel- Minimal purchase point at best especially on the non drive side. (QR frames have thicker drop outs).

Cassettes also add another MM or two over overall width due to the lock ring. Freewheels actually have a bit more clearance by the small cog because of how the mount to the hub. Especially freewheels with 14t small cogs. One more reason that this mix of parts has allot of interference.


You should be able to adjust limits so the derailleur can work in all cogs but you will have to re space the axle and re dish the wheel. And like you noticed, manipulate the drop outs. You probably can only re dish the wheel so much due to spoke length too. Spokes can end up being to short on on side, usually non drive. Loosing spacers is an option, but that you QR axle can be to long.

I'd be far easier to just use a bolt on hub and a 5 or 6 speed freewheel.

7 & 8 speed cassettes are the same overall width, the cogs just get narrower on an 8 speed (and 9 for that matter).

6 speed cassettes (and the required hub needed) are really oddball and were short lived. Most you will find are intended for road bikes and have a small gear spread.

I'd also bet that that chain is for 5, 6 or 7 speeds too. Chain looks too wide for an 8 speed, but hard to tell in the pictures.

Hope this makes any sense! These solutions are tough to convey through a computer. In the bike shop with a knowledgeable employee, 10 min is all you need.

I was hoping for aluminum rims for durability, ease of use, and lightweight. I paid too much attention to the rim size, and not the axle. I am soaking up this info like a sponge.

Would it be best to just built the wheels I want, from the ground up? I certainly don't want to ride an unsafe bike.