R
RogerGarrett
Guest
I posted awhile back - asking about decals and mentioned I was planning to send my wife's early 60's bicycle to a bike restoration shop in California. I subsequently received some information from several people regarding this company - most of that information was disturbing to say the least. My "radar" had been going off for about five days prior to talking to these other folks, but the frank discussions really helped me decide to search a more reasonable, interested company or person who might give us the kind of personal service, attention, and care/concern for this important project.
Here is the background, followed by this new experience.
I am reminded of when I first purchased our 1941 Chevrolet back in 1997. It was in all original condition, and it needed a LOT of mechanical work. The chrome was reasonable, and the original paint was still ok. So, not having space or time, I elected to take it to a shop in Illinois that specialized in antique and classic car repair and restoration. The initial quote for substantial work - including removal of the engine, transmission, replacement of brakes and brake lines, front end rebuild, shocks, etc. etc. was aroudn $6300. It seemed a bit high - perhaps by $1300 or so, but we were reasonably impressed with what we were told, liked the online discussion and pictures, and read about other people's successes with this shop. I won't go through the entire sordid episode, but suffice to say, after they exceeded their estimate by $3400 (without notice), charged us 300% markup in parts, and didn't communicate as they were working on the car, we were, suffice to say, very unhappy. When they did not return the parts they pulled out of the car or credit us for core charges that they kept, we were even more unhappy. But - dishonest people are everywhere - and we were too trusting.
Flash forward to 10 days ago - we contacted the shop in CA with an email and 10 photos (two or three which I posted earlier here). I heard back within 36 hours via email. It was a long, standard form letter that clearly is sent to anyone who is considering having work done by this company - with an added note at the bottom to personalize the message. I didn't mind - all the information was there for me to begin thinking about it.
I read all of the webpages I was directed to, and then I emailed additional questions with my telephone numbers. Several days went by, and, when I didn't hear back, I called the shop. The husband answered - and we spoke for about 8-10 minutes. He seemed rushed and wanted to get off the phone. He said his wife, who had emailed me back, was busy with another client. We discussed finishes, and he really wanted me to consider a powder coated finish. My intent however, was to restore the frame and painted parts to like-new or almost new condition. He made it clear that if his wife put together an estimate, he expected us to be serious (!?). His wife became available - but did not get on the phone to chat. Instead she told him that we had sent A LOT of pictures (his inflection - not mine). I felt properly chastised. We talked options, and then, after I stated that perhaps we could keep it to frame, forks, chainguard, and fenders only - he said she would look over the pictures and draw up an estimate.
The estimate came in several days later - and it was comprised of basic information copied from "order form" that could be found at the website. Interestingly, the prices at the website version vs. the prices on the "order form" were off by $5-10 in each category (more expensive). The total cost for a category 2 (not the top) refinish of the parts mentioned was $998 including shipping. The disclaimer stated that this could be increased 10% without notification and that the shop has the right to interpret instructions as they see fit (translation - no verification). Well, that opened the door to lots of increase in the original estimate. The estimate also claimed that the decals used would be "period correct" but not necessarily exact decals. I began to search for these decals - and I ultimately found three sources for different decals. Each time I found a new source, I emailed the lady and let her know what I had found - tried to include a photo - and asked questions. No responses. Two days went by this week - during which I heard from several people about their experiences with this shop - still heard nothing from the shop. I began to suspect that this shop was not for me, and I began to look again for someone to do the work. I then found a new shop and person to do the work - I can deliver the bike to him in 10 days. I don't have to wait 8-16 weeks for him to complete the work, and the cost is much less. I have seen pictures of his work, and it is outstanding - exactly what we were hoping for. I trust his calm, thoughtful, informative demeanor - besides - he's a former educator - how can you go wrong? He spent a LOT of time on the phone with me - answering questions, explaining process, giving advice for how things could be done - never telling how it should or had to be done (except in the case of important mechanical considerations) - rather, what options were available. Cost never came up until I asked in the end. He was about 1/2 the cost of the other shop - and that included EVERYTHING.
I wrote an email to the former shop explaining why we were not going to pursue the refinish work with them, complimented their website and work, and wished them my very best.
Yesterday I received an email from the lady who prepared the estimate for me, and she was accusatory, angry, defiant, and attacked my understanding of restoration, costs, and told me I was over-communicating and controlling.
Harrumph! What?
She told me she typically receives 50 emails on MOndays plus 200 spam emails. She fields a lot of calls also. She asked if I expected her to be at my beck and call whenever I wanted to muse about things.
Huh??
She told me that the photos I sent were of poor quality. I wonder why she sent me an estimate for nearly $1000 (plus probable increases) that was put together after looking at such pictures? Why didn't she just tell me that she needed clearer pictures if possible? Why wait until an irreplaceable item is in her hands to then revise the estimate? I have lots of thoughts about why she might - but of course, it is just conjecture at this point.
I wrote back and thanked her but told her I couldn't provide all the information she wanted (what I had been told by others) and that we would just have to agree to disagree about my intent and email, and I again wished her good wishes in her business.
Damn if today she didn't again write to say that she was just providing clarifications of her other message - and then told me not to respond.
Folks - I've been running a successful business for many years. I' made a few mistakes in the early years - one which was not to assume things but to stick to the facts. I have a thick skin and I get things in writing and answered properly before doing anything expensive. This shop may do some excellent work, but so did the classic/antique auto shop that we took our '41 Chevy to. I am not anxious to repeat errors.
I can't say what the California shop will or will not do - and I can't tell you what will or will not happen if you take a bike there. I can only report the facts as they occurred. Be so informed! If you want to know more, it will have to be via PM and over the phone.
Best wishes,
Roger Garrett
Here is the background, followed by this new experience.
I am reminded of when I first purchased our 1941 Chevrolet back in 1997. It was in all original condition, and it needed a LOT of mechanical work. The chrome was reasonable, and the original paint was still ok. So, not having space or time, I elected to take it to a shop in Illinois that specialized in antique and classic car repair and restoration. The initial quote for substantial work - including removal of the engine, transmission, replacement of brakes and brake lines, front end rebuild, shocks, etc. etc. was aroudn $6300. It seemed a bit high - perhaps by $1300 or so, but we were reasonably impressed with what we were told, liked the online discussion and pictures, and read about other people's successes with this shop. I won't go through the entire sordid episode, but suffice to say, after they exceeded their estimate by $3400 (without notice), charged us 300% markup in parts, and didn't communicate as they were working on the car, we were, suffice to say, very unhappy. When they did not return the parts they pulled out of the car or credit us for core charges that they kept, we were even more unhappy. But - dishonest people are everywhere - and we were too trusting.
Flash forward to 10 days ago - we contacted the shop in CA with an email and 10 photos (two or three which I posted earlier here). I heard back within 36 hours via email. It was a long, standard form letter that clearly is sent to anyone who is considering having work done by this company - with an added note at the bottom to personalize the message. I didn't mind - all the information was there for me to begin thinking about it.
I read all of the webpages I was directed to, and then I emailed additional questions with my telephone numbers. Several days went by, and, when I didn't hear back, I called the shop. The husband answered - and we spoke for about 8-10 minutes. He seemed rushed and wanted to get off the phone. He said his wife, who had emailed me back, was busy with another client. We discussed finishes, and he really wanted me to consider a powder coated finish. My intent however, was to restore the frame and painted parts to like-new or almost new condition. He made it clear that if his wife put together an estimate, he expected us to be serious (!?). His wife became available - but did not get on the phone to chat. Instead she told him that we had sent A LOT of pictures (his inflection - not mine). I felt properly chastised. We talked options, and then, after I stated that perhaps we could keep it to frame, forks, chainguard, and fenders only - he said she would look over the pictures and draw up an estimate.
The estimate came in several days later - and it was comprised of basic information copied from "order form" that could be found at the website. Interestingly, the prices at the website version vs. the prices on the "order form" were off by $5-10 in each category (more expensive). The total cost for a category 2 (not the top) refinish of the parts mentioned was $998 including shipping. The disclaimer stated that this could be increased 10% without notification and that the shop has the right to interpret instructions as they see fit (translation - no verification). Well, that opened the door to lots of increase in the original estimate. The estimate also claimed that the decals used would be "period correct" but not necessarily exact decals. I began to search for these decals - and I ultimately found three sources for different decals. Each time I found a new source, I emailed the lady and let her know what I had found - tried to include a photo - and asked questions. No responses. Two days went by this week - during which I heard from several people about their experiences with this shop - still heard nothing from the shop. I began to suspect that this shop was not for me, and I began to look again for someone to do the work. I then found a new shop and person to do the work - I can deliver the bike to him in 10 days. I don't have to wait 8-16 weeks for him to complete the work, and the cost is much less. I have seen pictures of his work, and it is outstanding - exactly what we were hoping for. I trust his calm, thoughtful, informative demeanor - besides - he's a former educator - how can you go wrong? He spent a LOT of time on the phone with me - answering questions, explaining process, giving advice for how things could be done - never telling how it should or had to be done (except in the case of important mechanical considerations) - rather, what options were available. Cost never came up until I asked in the end. He was about 1/2 the cost of the other shop - and that included EVERYTHING.
I wrote an email to the former shop explaining why we were not going to pursue the refinish work with them, complimented their website and work, and wished them my very best.
Yesterday I received an email from the lady who prepared the estimate for me, and she was accusatory, angry, defiant, and attacked my understanding of restoration, costs, and told me I was over-communicating and controlling.
Harrumph! What?
She told me she typically receives 50 emails on MOndays plus 200 spam emails. She fields a lot of calls also. She asked if I expected her to be at my beck and call whenever I wanted to muse about things.
Huh??
She told me that the photos I sent were of poor quality. I wonder why she sent me an estimate for nearly $1000 (plus probable increases) that was put together after looking at such pictures? Why didn't she just tell me that she needed clearer pictures if possible? Why wait until an irreplaceable item is in her hands to then revise the estimate? I have lots of thoughts about why she might - but of course, it is just conjecture at this point.
I wrote back and thanked her but told her I couldn't provide all the information she wanted (what I had been told by others) and that we would just have to agree to disagree about my intent and email, and I again wished her good wishes in her business.
Damn if today she didn't again write to say that she was just providing clarifications of her other message - and then told me not to respond.
Folks - I've been running a successful business for many years. I' made a few mistakes in the early years - one which was not to assume things but to stick to the facts. I have a thick skin and I get things in writing and answered properly before doing anything expensive. This shop may do some excellent work, but so did the classic/antique auto shop that we took our '41 Chevy to. I am not anxious to repeat errors.
I can't say what the California shop will or will not do - and I can't tell you what will or will not happen if you take a bike there. I can only report the facts as they occurred. Be so informed! If you want to know more, it will have to be via PM and over the phone.
Best wishes,
Roger Garrett
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