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Schwinn 40/41 high lo drum front hub recently laced is off center....help???
- Thread starter Fifthcenturycheese
- Start date
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Schwinn Sales West
I live for the CABE
10 5/8" has been the standard length for a 26", 36 hole, cross 4 FRONT wheel, forever. I'm not understanding why we are having a problem with this wheel build?
One thing that is very difficult to see is where to place the first spoke on the second flange you lace, because it is a Hi-Lo hub. Normally you can easily see that the two flanges are drilled "one half a hole off" from each other. That's not easy to see on a Hi-Lo hub. The only way in my mind that you could possibly do a 3x and a 4x on the same wheel (with the same size spoke) is to have the first spoke on the second flange dropped into the wrong hole.
Sorry for the explanation, it's confusing to explain verbally.
John
OK, Let's take this problem apart and discuss "bit by bit."
Let's not talk or think about your wheel, lacing, or truing. Let's talk only about the hub, and the fit into the fork ends.
The hub needs the proper width spacing. All of your fitting should be done with the brake arm assembly installed because it will effect a change in the width of the axle spacing and also the centering of the wheel.
The fork ends need to be in alignment with the front axle. They have to be square in both directions. A fork end alignment tool is handy for this step. The inside width of the fork ends must be very close to the outside measurement of your assembled hub spacing. If you have to pull the fork together with the axle nuts, it is out of alignment. Likewise, if you have to spread the fork in order to get the front hub to fit, the fork is out of alignment. The front hub should just snuggly fit into the fork ends with the brake arm installed, and the fork ends need to be square. Make certain that no part of the inside of the fork leg hits the brake arm causing it to be angled, the only thing touching is the axle lock nut against the inside of the "squared" fork end. At this point, you should be able to tighten the axle nuts, the hub should spin freely, and the brake should work by moving the actuator arm. Are we good to this point?
Take out the spokes on your low flange side, just unhook them from the hub, do not remove them from the rim. I'm assuming this is your 3x side. Loosen the nipples on the 4x brake side. Only have the brake side nipples turned on by two threads. Look for your valve hole. Make certain that your lacing is such that the spokes do not cross tightly over the valve stem, restricting air hose access. Make certain that the off center drilled spoke holes in your rim are laced to the correct side of the hub.
With the wheel laying over a garbage can, and the brake side down, we are going to re-lace the low flange side. Starting at the spoke next to your valve hole, insert it into the hub with the mushroom up, only two threads tightened on the nipple. You want a 4x pattern so select the correct starting hub spoke hole. Continue around the wheel with all nine of the "head up" spokes. Next, your going to insert the head down nine spokes into the hub flange.
Tighten all the nipples "only one more turn" to keep the nipples from falling off. Your wheel is now laced, and we begin the truing step. You have several things happening in this next step. You want the wheel to tension up, you want it to be round, you want it to be straight side to side, and THE MOST IMPORTANT is it needs to have all three of the first steps be done, and still be CENTERED within the hub axle spacing. All four of these items have to be dead on, if even one is off the wheel will not turn smoothly and straight in your forks.
I do not know what alignment tools you have to true the wheel, or what wheel building experience you have so I will wait to hear that you have at least made it this far before I go into the steps of truing the wheel.
Hope this helps.
John
One thing that is very difficult to see is where to place the first spoke on the second flange you lace, because it is a Hi-Lo hub. Normally you can easily see that the two flanges are drilled "one half a hole off" from each other. That's not easy to see on a Hi-Lo hub. The only way in my mind that you could possibly do a 3x and a 4x on the same wheel (with the same size spoke) is to have the first spoke on the second flange dropped into the wrong hole.
Sorry for the explanation, it's confusing to explain verbally.
John
Why is your tire mounted if the wheel is not centered?
OK, Let's take this problem apart and discuss "bit by bit."
Let's not talk or think about your wheel, lacing, or truing. Let's talk only about the hub, and the fit into the fork ends.
The hub needs the proper width spacing. All of your fitting should be done with the brake arm assembly installed because it will effect a change in the width of the axle spacing and also the centering of the wheel.
The fork ends need to be in alignment with the front axle. They have to be square in both directions. A fork end alignment tool is handy for this step. The inside width of the fork ends must be very close to the outside measurement of your assembled hub spacing. If you have to pull the fork together with the axle nuts, it is out of alignment. Likewise, if you have to spread the fork in order to get the front hub to fit, the fork is out of alignment. The front hub should just snuggly fit into the fork ends with the brake arm installed, and the fork ends need to be square. Make certain that no part of the inside of the fork leg hits the brake arm causing it to be angled, the only thing touching is the axle lock nut against the inside of the "squared" fork end. At this point, you should be able to tighten the axle nuts, the hub should spin freely, and the brake should work by moving the actuator arm. Are we good to this point?
Take out the spokes on your low flange side, just unhook them from the hub, do not remove them from the rim. I'm assuming this is your 3x side. Loosen the nipples on the 4x brake side. Only have the brake side nipples turned on by two threads. Look for your valve hole. Make certain that your lacing is such that the spokes do not cross tightly over the valve stem, restricting air hose access. Make certain that the off center drilled spoke holes in your rim are laced to the correct side of the hub.
With the wheel laying over a garbage can, and the brake side down, we are going to re-lace the low flange side. Starting at the spoke next to your valve hole, insert it into the hub with the mushroom up, only two threads tightened on the nipple. You want a 4x pattern so select the correct starting hub spoke hole. Continue around the wheel with all nine of the "head up" spokes. Next, your going to insert the head down nine spokes into the hub flange.
Tighten all the nipples "only one more turn" to keep the nipples from falling off. Your wheel is now laced, and we begin the truing step. You have several things happening in this next step. You want the wheel to tension up, you want it to be round, you want it to be straight side to side, and THE MOST IMPORTANT is it needs to have all three of the first steps be done, and still be CENTERED within the hub axle spacing. All four of these items have to be dead on, if even one is off the wheel will not turn smoothly and straight in your forks.
I do not know what alignment tools you have to true the wheel, or what wheel building experience you have so I will wait to hear that you have at least made it this far before I go into the steps of truing the wheel.
Hope this helps.
John
bikemonkey
I live for the CABE
One thing to pay attention to when reusing hubs is how the spoke courses were originally oriented. The spoke heads will often leave indentions on the hub flange indicating their original orientation. These indents are most obvious on alloy hubs and not so obvious or not present at all on steel flange hubs. You can use these indents to determine how the spokes were originally oriented (in case you forget or are taking over an project). If possible, always fill the hub and orient the spokes in their original direction for the rebuild. Taking a photo or making a quick note before the tear down can save a lot of frustration on a rebuild.
Fifthcenturycheese
Look Ma, No Hands!
Well, I truly appreciate all the input, I learned quite a bit from everyone. As I enjoy building wheels, I think I will be hunting down some tools to more properly perform the job. As for this hilo build, it was suggested to me I loosen the spokes and check to see if I was off one hole on the low side. I was not! When the spokes were loosened, the hub shifted to the center and all was good. I was able to true it up and it looks great. Small side was a cross 3 pattern, big side was a cross 4 pattern, have to admit, it blew me away that you could do this with the same size spokes! Thank you everyone!
cyclingday
I'm the Wiz, and nobody beats me!
Notice the optimal, tangent pattern from both flanges.
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