Schwinn Base Coat


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spoker

Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
Mar 3, 2011
5,185
2,318
Minneapolis, United States
#22
Probably walking into the middle of a poo storm here but Schwinn didn’t use a gold base coat on these. I’ve seen a ‘57 Phantom where one side was hold and the other red. The red oxidizes and turns to a gold color
yep
 

spoker

Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
Mar 3, 2011
5,185
2,318
Minneapolis, United States
#23
its simple,all you have to do is look at what sun does to car paint in a place like texas, you see car ports all over the south non in minnesota,look at alot of southern muscle cars,painted white tops sun damage,alightweight bike was prolly keept inside/ballooners were left outside prolly lying down after the kickstand wasnt used,just get off and let it lay down,sound familiar?
 
Likes: WetDogGraphix

Blackbomber

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Aug 23, 2018
759
1,744
44
Unionville, CT
#24
I’ll try to find time to pull my ‘55 Opal red Vette out today. I always thought mine was as faded as they come, but some of the bikes posted in this thread are on a different level. I don’t think I have any gold (either from fading or scratches) on mine, but don’t mind sacrificing a bit of paint for scientific purposes.
 

fattyre

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Oct 22, 2014
884
2,348
Chicagoland
#26
Often times I wonder- Schwinn being such a large business for so long where are all the people who worked there and how come we have so few first hand accounts of anything? So much speculation. Even on products that were made only 30 or 40 years ago?
 

rustjunkie

Moderator
Staff member
Jul 11, 2012
13,290
18,042
Monrovia, CA 91016
www.rustjunkies.com
#27
I know beans about this but if there were gold over silver then it seems one would expect to see gold in this protected area between the cantilever and top tube:

1563634583256.png


also,. schwinn paint was sold in cans, including the silver base. Anyone ever see gold base?
Any catalogs showing cans of paint available?
 

razinhellcustomz

I live for the CABE
May 28, 2018
1,004
491
59
kiel wisconsin
#28
Awesome! Bet you wish you still had it. Oh Well, Easy come go. Their's lots more where they came from. Ride On. Razin. The color looks to be more of a burnt orange than copper , but still looks good on this bike.
 

GTs58

I'm the Wiz, and nobody beats me!
Sep 2, 2012
10,695
9,539
Central Arizona
#29
I know beans about this but if there were gold over silver then it seems one would expect to see gold in this protected area between the cantilever and top tube:

View attachment 1032839

also,. schwinn paint was sold in cans, including the silver base. Anyone ever see gold base?
Any catalogs showing cans of paint available?
I thought that shot was pretty interesting. I've never seen any Schwinn lit showing cans of their touch up paint until the 60's. The Opal Reds during these first few years definitely had a major flaw in it's chemical make up. I've also noticed that in these first few years the Red was also much darker than the Red on the 56 and later production, other than the Phantom's when they came out with the Opal paint. It seems the later Opals starting in 56 wasn't prone to this crazy fading issue.

Here are the shots of that 53 Traveler that rennfaron posted above. Great example of whatever is going on with this paint and seeing the paint on the steer tubes might tell the story.

1563646218569.png


1563646244426.png


1563646285450.png


1563646317944.png


1563646417636.png


1563646852085.png
 

schwinnlax

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jun 14, 2016
117
151
52
La Crosse, WI
#30
Maybe a paint chemist can answer the questions.
I'm a chemist and I answered this in post #10.

Are you 100% sure of that?
A true red does not use any other pigmentation to where the red would fade out leaving a gold color and red does not oxidize turning to gold.
This is incorrect. Paints are made up of many chemicals and may be a mixture of pigments. Red (like any color) can be a mixture of chemicals and pigments to give the exact color desired. As I already said, seems most likely that schwinn had a paint formulation in the mid '50s that was prone to chemical ageing where the pigment in the red region of the spectrum degraded/decomposed leaving other pigment(s) that did not decompose, which results in the gold color you are seeing in all the pictures. Again, use logic. How can you be seeing a gold base coat UNDER decals?
 

WetDogGraphix

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jul 29, 2015
2,688
6,667
West Coast
#31
I'm a chemist and I answered this in post #10.


This is incorrect. Paints are made up of many chemicals and may be a mixture of pigments. Red (like any color) can be a mixture of chemicals and pigments to give the exact color desired. As I already said, seems most likely that schwinn had a paint formulation in the mid '50s that was prone to chemical ageing where the pigment in the red region of the spectrum degraded/decomposed leaving other pigment(s) that did not decompose, which results in the gold color you are seeing in all the pictures. Again, use logic. How can you be seeing a gold base coat UNDER decals?
Are you an Automotive paint chemist?
 

WetDogGraphix

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jul 29, 2015
2,688
6,667
West Coast
#33
No, I'm a professor of chemistry at a state university. What's your background?
Nothing personal, just asking.... Me......Okie/shade-tree painter, 45 years. Thus, my logo. Oh, also artist, drew the logo in 1983.....With you being a Professor, do I need to show my work? :cool:
 
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Jeff54

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Sep 11, 2013
2,200
979
Ft Myers, Florida
#34
Often times I wonder- Schwinn being such a large business for so long where are all the people who worked there and how come we have so few first hand accounts of anything? So much speculation. Even on products that were made only 30 or 40 years ago?
I can answer some of this. As a collector and researcher for missing info for several years. Digging through patents joining different groups that are hunting for factory relics and advertisements plus, plus! There is very little to be found, few to no first hand people especially the older it is. And most of those who are or were alive, workers input, hardly knew the whole operation. In most cases when a factory goes under or changes hands, it's not like they expected or cared much about some dumb nut collector that would come along begging for info. Nor would one create storage space for 30, 40, 100-200 year. In a few cases though, docs and examples have been found in attics or basements of family members, but in most it would have no value to them and trashed. I mean it's not like collectors are knocking at their doors when stored junk had no value. Spring cleaning, or sale of a factory owner's sold their residence junk was trashed. In Schwinn's case, some items were saved by the family, but not much. It's likely tons of info was trashed when head quarters was moved to bolder.

I sold 100's of Mattel products as a kid. Hot wheels, Barbie's, thing makers gobalty (sp)-goop, Varoom plastic motors, you name and I had it. My little sister had the largest collection of Barbee stuff. Ya tinks it was kept when she was 18? Nope, spring cleaning trashed all but 1 Barbee and dress. . And I know where 1,000 s and 1,000's more are,. Prob a ton of old factory docs too. Right were I got my stock where Mattel dumped retired and discounted {discontinued, I meant} stock: . The La Puente City dump. All U need to do is excavate 20-30 feet under the Sheraton hotel and golf course they built around 1975, [grin].
 
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GTs58

I'm the Wiz, and nobody beats me!
Sep 2, 2012
10,695
9,539
Central Arizona
#35
Although this isn't an old Schwinn, it was painted with a silver base and then had a candy red color coat applied. The red colorant in the paint has almost completely faded out leaving just the color of the original base coat.

1564857714259.png


1564857844085.png
 
Likes: tryder

mrg

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Aug 9, 2010
3,516
9,278
socal
#36
I don't have time now to read this whole thread but my Jag sure seems like it has a gold ( piss ) coat under red over silver and I thing I have seen Schwinn cans of gold undercoat, I'll have to search some catalogs. Always thought this was a neat after the surrounding red faded then the white decal finely gave way reveling og red. this bike was weird, when I stripped the house paint off there seemed to be silver and gold undercoat and shades of another name under the Jaguar, It being a 53 prototype I always figured they repainted paint reject parts which they did.
5C23DC47-ED8E-4956-A190-30CCC7536FB4.png
 
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Schwinn499

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Apr 9, 2011
2,118
4,167
Monrovia, CA, United States
#37
After thinking this over for a while, does anyone have evidence of gold and/or silver base coat on the over spray portions of the steerer tubes of color of bikes in question. This portion usually holds true to the original finish as its been protected from any wear and sunlight.

Edit: I just saw GT had snuck this idea in also..
 
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GenuineRides

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jul 16, 2009
705
316
Trempealeau, WI, United States
www.facebook.com
#38
Check the link from the 1959 Schwinn Reporter article and take the time to read directly from Schwinn https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/schwinn-paint-process.86284/ where they state in black and white, "coated with aluminum enamel" "and baked for 19 minutes". Wouldn't that be more obvious than all of this conjecture? Plus I have never seen any paint listing or can, samples etc. of gold underbase in any catalog or collection anywhere.

Paints have chemicals as ingredients that react to environmental circumstances such as time, temperature, UV exposure, etc.
 
Likes: Schwinn499

Freqman1

Riding a '37 Dayton Super Streamline
Jul 14, 2009
17,642
20,957
Evans, GA
#40

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