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Seeking originality information on black fender (1947 - 1949) Roadmaster Luxury Liners

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cbustapeck

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Documenting existing conditions, part 1.

There are some notes here about details being right or wrong, but they are no means exhaustive.
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Homemade chain adjustment screw. Unsure what the hole above the adjustment screw is, and whether it is standard. There is not one present on the other side. Maybe for the brake light actuator?

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Rack does not line up with bracket, as is standard. (Bracket is underneath license plate.)

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Seat minus leather cover.

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I suspect this entire wheel to be not original.

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A very fancy brass screw that connected to itself from both sides went in this hole in the tank. I am hoping that it is in the back of my car.


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Speedometer was here.

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The big hole on the rack? It's for access to the screw that connects it to the fender.

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Mr. Monkeyarms

I live for the CABE
Here is my black fendered early Lux Liner. Headlight is a distressed repo, but the rest is pretty much original. I remember when I was putting it together after it had sat around for a few years (after arriving from the ebay seller). I had stored the seat seperately and couldn't remember which one was on the bike when I bought it, so I picked one from my stash that matched one of the ads I had acquired. I don't make a religion out of originality, but shoot for as close as I can get with the stuff I have on hand. View attachment 1290005

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Awesome!! :cool: :cool: Thanks for sharing!!
 

cbustapeck

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Documenting existing conditions, part 2

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As noted above, the large screw from the narrow end of the tank is missing. It appeared to be brass or similar.

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The red appears to have been applied with a paint roller, presumably from the factory?

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Aggressive interaction between kickstand and frame.

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Better photos of the strap for the license plate will be provided before too long. Until I have evidence otherwise, I am going to choose to believe that this is for Aurora, Ohio.

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Homemade chain adjustment screws! I kind of love them.

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Bottom bracket badness. I guess I am looking for bearings.

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How does one remove this? Pipe wrench?

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Lower fender bolt.

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Upper fender bolt and place to which it is attached. See additional photo below.

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Rear fender bolts, nuts, and washers. A matched pair!

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Here's where the fender attaches to the upper stays. Is this structural?
The seller said that there were no cracks, and this is in a location where he could not have seen. At the price he sold it to me at, I have no regrets. Added bonus: It's in an area that can be welded and totally will not show!

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Machine screw and washers for attaching front fender to forks. The smaller washer is a flexible material.
 

cbustapeck

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Documenting existing conditions, part 3

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I believe the fender to have been painted black from the factory.

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It does not appear that anything was installed in the hole at the bottom of the front fender.

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Cotter pins securing the pins that hold the front forks together.

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Seat clamp. I do not believe that the hardware is original.


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It's hard to see here, but the bottom bearing cup is taller than the top one.

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Evidence of repainting, I think.


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Can anyone tell he how the springs are attached to the rods and how to remove them, please?

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1motime

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
The hole over the right side rear axle is rear mounting hole for chain guard. Stuck springer srprings are just stuck. Give a whack with brass hammer or rubber mallet. Lots of work. It is worth it. Nice bike
 

cbustapeck

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Parts acquired at Memory Lane and Project Status

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The fender, rack, and reflector came together, and are kind of rough, but the price was fair for what they are. The rack is available, should anyone be interested.

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These grips are period correct and will do the job. If I'm able to identify exactly what the correct ones would be, I will pursue that option.

The light is a reproduction. I think I really want an original. It's a Delta product, and a few have sold on eBay in the past few months at reasonable prices.

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I picked up a pair of Torrington Meteor 3s with may or may not be correct - I'm looking for further evidence. I had thought that Persons Supremes were the right pedals, which is why I bought the blocks. At this point, I'm looking for more data.

I ordered blackwall tires, tubes, and rim strips today.

At this point, I am looking for
:
  • Bottom bracket bearings
  • A correct CWC wheel to match the front (I think it should have a Bendix hub, but I am not 100% on that.
  • Original tail light
  • The missing brass tank screws
  • A well-used chain guard
  • Correct seat post bolt
  • INFORMATION! So much information!
 

cbustapeck

Wore out three sets of tires already!
The hole over the right side rear axle is rear mounting hole for chain guard. Stuck springer srprings are just stuck. Give a whack with brass hammer or rubber mallet. Lots of work. It is worth it. Nice bike
That is such useful information, because usually smacking things just leads to more trouble for me. Much appreciated.
 

cbustapeck

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Details and moving forward

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A look at the full serial number reveals that it does not include "ACw" after the number, which, per the attached chart, indicates that the frame was built sometime between March and June of 1947.

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I received these Torrington Meteor 3 pedals at the time of the purchase. They're a pair, though I don't think they started life together. One axle is bent, but they are still quite functional. I am tearing them down, with the intent of using them, barring any evidence that another type of pedal is correct.

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The bottom bracket and head bearing cups show some evidence of black paint. I'm inclined to think that this is overspray from a repaint, but given that the seat clamp is painted black, I'm not 100% convinced of this, and am going to refrain from removing it until I have further evidence.

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The metal strip that was holding the license plate in place reads "MAR-KING" and then the number "973025".

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I love the ability of the buffing wheel to save time, when it is safe to do so.

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The chain that came with the bike was unbranded, though it did have a Diamond brand link immediately adjacent to the master link. I've soaked it in mineral spirits as a starting point, followed by some work with the wire wheel. There seems only minor corrosion, so I really hope that it can be saved.

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Regarding the springs on the forks: They have a nut which seems permanently attached that screws into the upper rod.

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There are several layers of paint on the rear fender that I purchased at Memory Lane.

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This beige / cream appears to have been the original color - see this Luxury Liner for an example. I'd like to think that it was on a Luxury Liner originally, but I have no evidence one way or the other.

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The fender is quite straight and has a clean bottom edge.

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I elected to use a wire brush to strip the paint and rust because I didn't want to mess up the nice sharp crease of the fender. I intend to sand the raised parts down and do a skim coat of Bondo, before painting.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do for paint. I don't think I want to distress the surface - I'm looking for something that doesn't try to pass for original nor does it jump out and say "I'm new". Plenty of time to consider that, though.
 

Attachments

  • CWC_Chart.pdf
    249 KB · Views: 10

Oilit

I live for the CABE
I'm not sure about your serial. There's nothing showing, but they've offset the serial for some reason. The older serials were centered on the bracket, and CWC markings don't always have good stamps. I've seen them so light that they're hard to read even after the paint is stripped.
 

cbustapeck

Wore out three sets of tires already!
I'm not sure about your serial. There's nothing showing, but they've offset the serial for some reason. The older serials were centered on the bracket, and CWC markings don't always have good stamps. I've seen them so light that they're hard to read even after the paint is stripped.
That's really interesting. I look forward to finding serial numbers of more painted fender Luxury Liners.

I had just assumed that because the 1998 reproduction is often stated to be of a 1948 bike, that this had to be 1947. It seems that some sources say that the 1998 reproduction is actually of a 1949 bicycle, which would make more sense, and would put this in the tail end of this model before the update for the 1949 Christmas season.
 

cbustapeck

Wore out three sets of tires already!
I'm not sure about your serial. There's nothing showing, but they've offset the serial for some reason. The older serials were centered on the bracket, and CWC markings don't always have good stamps. I've seen them so light that they're hard to read even after the paint is stripped.
So, I took what you said to heart. A bit of time with the Dremel revealed that there is a "CW" after the number. I so would not have checked this if not for you. Thank you!
 

cbustapeck

Wore out three sets of tires already!
I should note that I am a bit confused. Should there not be an “A” in front of the “CW” in the serial number?

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cbustapeck

Wore out three sets of tires already!
No, that is a newer series than the Cw series. Yours is shown in the purplish blue area. The pink area is the ACw series. Yours was made March to May of 1947.

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Really?! So cool. I was of the impression that for the Series 3 bicycles, numbers starting with A and B were not supposed to have the “CW” following them.
 

TieDye

I live for the CABE
Really?! So cool. I was of the impression that for the Series 3 bicycles, numbers starting with A and B were not supposed to have the “CW” following them.
There are some rare Cw series frames, starting with A and B numbers that do not have Cw stamped. They are pretty rare, and are actually January 1942 made frames (without rear stand frame ears, as that was a change they began in January 1942, on some frames.) Those early non-ear frames were held over to be used when production began again. I have 2 of those rare A_ _ _ _ _ frames without ears, no Cw, both ladies frames. I have pics, but they're not on my phone right now.
 

TieDye

I live for the CABE
Really?! So cool. I was of the impression that for the Series 3 bicycles, numbers starting with A and B were not supposed to have the “CW” following them.
I've seen some A and B Cw stamped frames, and what I was told was that after they dragged the frames out that had been waiting for production to begin again, the ones without the Cw, they used them up first. Then they began stamping the Cw when the company needed to do something to differentiate that series 3. The Cw idea came to their heads after they got stuff rolling again. Some frames were new styles quicker than others, so there was some oddballs. The 2 ladies January 1942 frame bikes I have are both A serial numbers, and no Cw stamp, and no rear frame ears. At war production stopped oddly, and starting back up was awkward and clunky until they got really rolling. CWC took awhile to eventually get flowing in serial number structure. If you really look at the series changes, etc., you'll see they took until 1952 to get to a logical serial number scheme, using 52Cw suffix and A numbers for January, B for February, etc.
 

cbustapeck

Wore out three sets of tires already!
ADMIN REQUEST: Is it possible to change the title of this from "(1947 - 1948)" to "(1947 - 1949)", please? My research has revealed at least one solidly original example from 1949, H67241 CW.

On the note of originality, I have been compiling a spreadsheet of all of the painted fender examples that I can locate. The current copy is below. The live version may be found here. I appreciate any and all additions to it.

Owner or photographerserial numberMarketed to menMarketed to womenblue / whiteblack / red
ballooneyA60422 CWxxRetains early rack and forks but later tank and fenders
cbustapeckA60964 CWxx
KscheelA83796 CW
Tim Keith 59C14622 CWxx
piercer_99C22564 CWxx
Sc62 and pre-restoD00594 CWxx
DaveprezG09162 CWxx
riderickH67241 CWxx
chucksoldbikesx
Dave Strombergerxx
eBay via Pinerestxx
modelceller1xx
Nickinatorxx
SimpleMan / hawkster19xx
the2fingerxx
Wards Guy..xx

A couple of minor notes:
  • Massive shout out to Riderick for all the help he has provided with photograph after photograph of all the little details on his example. It has helped me confirm a good few details on my bicycle.
  • Szathmarig has kindly sold me an original chainguard, in the bare metal. I await its arrival eagerly. I am still interested in locating an example in the original paint.
  • The handlebars on my example are Torringtons.
  • Careful investigation of the paint on my example has revealed that a good bit of the bicycle has been repainted. I considered repainting it, given the condition of the surface, but decided that some original paint is better than no original paint.
Big edit:
The thing that I mentioned in a previous post as being a crack in one of the little tubes that the rear fender attaches to is, in fact, an open seam. I cannot think why this would be done, but it was.
 
Last edited:

TieDye

I live for the CABE
ADMIN REQUEST: Is it possible to change the title of this from "(1947 - 1948)" to "(1947 - 1949)", please? My research has revealed at least one solidly original example from 1949, H67241 CW.

On the note of originality, I have been compiling a spreadsheet of all of the painted fender examples that I can locate. The current copy is below. The live version may be found here. I appreciate any and all additions to it.

Owner or photographerserial numberMarketed to menMarketed to womenblue / whiteblack / red
ballooneyA60422 CWxxRetains early rack and forks but later tank and fenders
cbustapeckA60964 CWxx
KscheelA83796 CW
Tim Keith 59C14622 CWxx
piercer_99C22564 CWxx
Sc62 and pre-restoD00594 CWxx
DaveprezG09162 CWxx
riderickH67241 CWxx
chucksoldbikesx
Dave Strombergerxx
eBay via Pinerestxx
modelceller1xx
Nickinatorxx
SimpleMan / hawkster19xx
the2fingerxx
Wards Guy..xx

A couple of minor notes:
  • Massive shout out to Riderick for all the help he has provided with photograph after photograph of all the little details on his example. It has helped me confirm a good few details on my bicycle.
  • Szathmarig has kindly sold me an original chainguard, in the bare metal. I await its arrival eagerly. I am still interested in locating an example in the original paint.
  • The handlebars on my example are Torringtons.
  • Careful investigation of the paint on my example has revealed that a good bit of the bicycle has been repainted. I considered repainting it, given the condition of the surface, but decided that some original paint is better than no original paint.
Big edit:
The thing that I mentioned in a previous post as being a crack in one of the little tubes that the rear fender attaches to is, in fact, an open seam. I cannot think why this would be done, but it was.
You can edit the title yourself.
 

cbustapeck

Wore out three sets of tires already!
You can edit the title yourself.
I have edited the titles of other posts of mine, but for some reason, I don’t have that option here. Maybe it’s the number of comments?
 
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