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Thoughts on 2-speed 26" Balloon Tire hubs. Help me understand... re ND vs Bendix...

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PAValentine

Finally riding a big boys bike
It appears to me, here in North Central Texas at least, that the most common ratios on 1-inch chain gearing is 26 teeth on the front and 10 on the back.
With New Departure 2 speed hubs, all I have seen come with a 12 tooth cog. I don't recall seeing anything smaller. So then compared to a single-speed, that hub is an underdrive hub to begin with. So high gear then would already be a 2 tooth, or around 18% lower gear than the normal single-speed. Then the low gear then would be even lower.

Am I missing something here? If the most common/normal single-speed is 26/10, Why then go ND 2 speed, when the high gear is already lower than the normal gearing? Am I making sense???

Now for Bendix.
Every Bendix manual shift Aviation hub seems to be 1/2 inch pitch only. I have not come across one with a skiptooth cog. So assuming that the equivalent gearing of 1/2 inch chain compared to skiptooth would be a 52 tooth for the chainring. And that seems the most common size on the front. The Bendix 2 speeds seem to come with mostly 18 or 19 tooth hub cogs.
(So if the normal gearing on single speed balloon tire bikes with 1/2 inch chain would be 52 on the front and 20 on the back, then that would be an equal ratio comparison to the 26/10 on skiptooth bikes.)
The Bendix then would have a slightly higher gearing in direct (High gear) drive, and a stepdown gearing on the low gear side. (underdrive)

To me, the Bendix set-up makes more sense than the ND 2-speed, which appears to start out lower than the norm, then goes down even lower????

Am I missing something here regarding the New Departure gearing on their 2-speeds, or are there actually smaller cogs than the 12 tooth? Perhaps they were only intended for use in a very hilly region of the country where a lower gearing was standard on a single-speed????

Any Thoughts?
 
The standard 26/12t ND DD is higher and lower geared than standard 26/10.
1160080
 
Thanks Chad!

I'm going to have to let that sink in for a while because, at first look, it isn't making sense to me.
That would make it appear that the 2-speed somehow creates an overdrive in high, and I can't see how at this point???

In actuality, High gear is a direct drive from cog to wheel. The wheel turns at the exact same speed as the cog. So how does 12 become faster than 10 in road speed??? I must be missing something in my thinking??? I have had those units apart, so I know just how they operate. The planet gears don't operate separately around the sun gear in high???
 
I am more of a casual rider in a coastal community without much of hills, more likely mere 'grades'.
I find the 26-9/10 (2.9-2.6 range) fairly steep, and prefer a 24-11 (2.182 ratio) in single-speed skip-tooth, similar to my newer beach cruisers at 46-22 (2.09 ratio); maybe a 26-11 (2.364 ratio) might be closest to my 1990's Huffy at 44-19 (2.32 ratio). For a multiple speed, I might likely even go the 22-11 route. With an old 1970's ten-speed or a 1980's mountain bike, I rarely used the big front sprocket and small back sprocket combination. The speeds I look for are easy and easier; and maybe a 3rd speed that I might rarely ever use (no long downhills).
For a multi-speed with an overdrive (higher gear), I would either reduce the front sprocket or increase the rear sprocket, (as those parts might be available).
 
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I run a 52 front, Bendix red band kickback with 18 teeth on one of my bikes. Works great, but I ride on relatively flat ground in Phoenix.
 
Not knowing anything about New Departure hubs and never having had one apart or not, you have more knowledge than me about them. But assuming they work similar to Bendix where one of the speeds is direct drive, I would say that you are correct in your thinking.

I would also say that anyone who is into trying to get multiple bikes with different configurations to ride the same should check out Sheldon Browns gain ratios. It's been invaluable to me to accomplish this.


The easiest way to use it is to use his calculator but once you understand the calculations used, you can create spreadsheets to compare your different bikes and setups. It's pretty cool. Unfortuately he doesn't have the New Departure 2 or 3 speed ratios in it. The Bendix manual 2 speed I believe has the same ratios as the Red Band kickback.
 
Not knowing anything about New Departure hubs and never having had one apart or not, you have more knowledge than me about them. But assuming they work similar to Bendix where one of the speeds is direct drive, I would say that you are correct in your thinking.

I would also say that anyone who is into trying to get multiple bikes with different configurations to ride the same should check out Sheldon Browns gain ratios. It's been invaluable to me to accomplish this.


The easiest way to use it is to use his calculator but once you understand the calculations used, you can create spreadsheets to compare your different bikes and setups. It's pretty cool. Unfortuately he doesn't have the New Departure 2 or 3 speed ratios in it. The Bendix manual 2 speed I believe has the same ratios as the Red Band kickback.
Thanks,
Yeah, I've had them both apart, and they both have direct-drive for the high gear. and 3 planetary gears around the "Sun' gear which IS the direct drive gear. These planet gears when actuated by the position of the main (sun) gear spin the wheel at a slower rate. Both ND and Bendix work basically the same way. They just do it in a slightly different fashion.
I've had the red kickback apart too, and as I recall, it works just about the same. Ony it automatically starts in the low, planetary gear range, the kicks back to direct drive.

I have a Bendix Aviation on one bike now. I have been reluctant to put the ND on a bike because I like the 10/26 gearing for my riding area, and don't want to put something on that will result in faster leg rpm to ride that same speed. And that's what I fear the result would be with the ND 12 tooth cog. Since it appears above that ND made an 11 tooth cog for that setup, I'll have to watch for one. I doubt if they could make a 10 tooth because I'm afraid that it would be too small to fit over the hub gearing case.
 
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