TOC Lady Chainless Columbia

Discussion in 'Antique Bicycles Pre-1933' started by JEAN MARIE, Dec 29, 2017.

  1. #1 Posted Dec 29, 2017

    'Lil Knee Scuffer

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    Hi ,

    I'm happy to have found out my third american bike , here in France ; confirmed by Mr Columbia it dates from 1900-1910 , and even 1900-1901 if the trophy fork is original

    here some pictures , and more reading in french here

    http://forum.tontonvelo.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=35229&p=366243#p366243

    any idea of what would mean the crest stamped on the right of fork head ?

    thx in advance for any comment and assistance in getting missing parts : headbadge, fork plate, front wheel

    col d1.jpg

    col g1.jpg

    col tf blason avt.jpg

    col tf blason.jpg
     
  2. #2 Posted Dec 29, 2017

    I live for the CABE

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    Nice find @JEAN MARIE. Very difficult to read those markings on the fork crown, looks like some type of part number for the fork, but that wouldn't account for it appearing on both sides of the fork crown.
    maybe try rubbing some dirt, or use a non permanent marker pen on the markings,
    wipe off the excess and take another photo.
    c'est très difficile à lire.
     
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  3. #3 Posted Jan 4, 2018

    'Lil Knee Scuffer

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    Hi Dnc1,

    thx for your comments ; and first my best wishes for 2018 !!

    here are some more pictures of both sides of the fork head ; now , I really wonder if these marks have any meaning , or if they are just the result of some assembly process ?

    3 first picts are the right side , where some sort of " crest" is present ; the last one is the left side, where some light marks are present

    col tf blason d 2.jpg col tf blason d 3.jpg col tf blason d 4.jpg col tf blason g 2.jpg
     
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  4. #4 Posted Jan 4, 2018

    Look Ma, No Hands!

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    They look like dings to me. However the small circles on the fork head are frame pins that are used to hold the bike together during the brazing process.
     
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  5. #5 Posted Jan 5, 2018

    Wore out three sets of tires already!

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    I believe the trophy fork without the steering tube clamp at the top for the neck is 1899 only.
    I believe the drive cover plate is 1900 or later.
     
  6. #6 Posted Jan 5, 2018

    'Lil Knee Scuffer

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    Hi ,

    thx for your comments , unfortunately my technical english is too poor , and reverso as well , to well understand what you have written

    by dings do you mean small dents made during manufacturing process ?

    and EJLwheels, could you please post a picture for each type of fork you describe , the one of 1899 , and the one after 1900 ?
     
  7. #7 Posted Jan 5, 2018

    Look Ma, No Hands!

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    The dings or dents were not caused by the manufacturing process. They are there simply as a result of time. The bicycle is 100 plus years old so you have to expect dents and scratches.
     
  8. #8 Posted Jan 5, 2018

    Wore out three sets of tires already!

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    1898 trophy plate fork with stem/neck clamp
    Copake april 2013 Lot#372 = 21806458.jpg

    1899 trophy plate fork without stem/neck clamp
    1899 columbia rusahu7y-1.jpg

    1900- plain crown fork (still without stem/neck clamp, but not shown in illustration)
    1900 Columbia 2.jpg
     
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  9. #9 Posted Jan 6, 2018

    'Lil Knee Scuffer

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    Graig, that makes sense ; do you know where should I look for any markings on the bike ?

    thx Ejlwheels for the pictures ; it's now clearer to me ; when you write " the drive cover plate" , you mean the one protecting the front gear ?

    based on your experience, may we say now that my bike is from 1899 or 1900 ?
     
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  10. #10 Posted Jan 6, 2018

    Look Ma, No Hands!

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    The serial number should be located at the top of the seat tube on the right side. Columbia also offered to engrave the original owner's name on the trophy plate on the fork head.
     
  11. #11 Posted Jan 6, 2018

    Wore out three sets of tires already!

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    Your frame is definitely not 1898.
    Your fork might have been an 1898 fork whose clamping top has been cut short,
    but now at least it is basically a 1899 fork.
    Beyond that, it is difficult to say without seeing it up close.

    It is likely not 1899, because the seat post clamp would then be a collet style using a 1" diameter post
    rather the the pinch bolt yours appears have. (Could that hole have been drilled later?)
    Below, 1899 only seat post collet clamp:
    1899 Columbia chainless 8907270_10_l.jpg



    Does the seat post clamp bolt hole look clean and countersunk like this? Then the frame is probably 1900 or later.
    1900 4.jpg

    Your drive side cover plate is 1900 or later, but the crank arm looks like 1899.
    Here is 1898, sharp right angle with not much shoulder.
    1898 columbia_chainless06.jpg

    Here is 1899, flat cover plate, right angle bend with well-defined shoulder.
    1899 columbia masa2abe-1.jpg

    Here is 1900 and later (all interchangeable) softer angle and less defined shoulder. Cover plate is stepped, not flat.
    1900 2.jpg

    From your pictures it seems that your frame and fork could be 1899 with a replaced 1900 or later cover plate (not sure if a 1900 or later plate will fit on a 1899)
    or a 1900 (or later) frame with a replacement (1899) fork and possibly 1899 crank arms.
    A 1900 frame should have 1 1/8" diameter tubes. I believe later frames have 1" diameter tubes.
     
    #11 ejlwheels, Jan 6, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
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  12. #12 Posted Jan 6, 2018

    Finally riding a big boys bike

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    I might be wrong but if my memory serves me right The !899 1900 crank arms will not fit later bikes crank arm axle is a tad thicker.
     
  13. #13 Posted Jan 7, 2018

    'Lil Knee Scuffer

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    ths a lot guys for so many usefull answers and pictures

    at least , we are progressing

    I have measured all diameters : the lowest tube and the saddle tube are 28,6 mm , ie 1 1/8 inch , ie from 1900 onwards
    FYI , fork tube is 35mm, upper tube is 25,4 , oblique rear tube is 19,5mm and gear and opposite tube are 22,3 mm

    for the saddle , the seat post clamp bolt hole looks clean and is countersunk
    col tub sl.jpg

    then the cover plate is like the 1900 plus
    col renvoi av flasque.jpg

    about the saddle clamp, they may have done different versions depending upon the model ; as you can see on the 1907 Peugeot catalogue below , the standard lady bike has a hole and screw, when the " de luxe" model has got the conical screw we see on the Columbia 1899 model
    Peugeot 1907 Vélo.3.Dame.1.jpg Peugeot 1907 Vélo.10.Dame Luxe.jpg

    I know it well because I've bought recently one " de luxe model " , you can see it here :
    http://forum.tontonvelo.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=34229

    the pleasure I took to fix the front wheel was great !
     
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  14. #14 Posted Jan 8, 2018

    Finally riding a big boys bike

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    Forgive my ignorance but are these chainless bikes very valueable? Can anyone throw out a number for a mens or womens bike.
    Thanks
    Chase
     
  15. #15 Posted Jan 8, 2018

    'Lil Knee Scuffer

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    Hi Sacket ,

    no precise idea, but you should contact MrColumbia , ie Kenneth Kowal , who is an expert in this field

    prices actually depend upon the status of the bike ; anyway spare parts are looked for , and may cost a lot ; for example I need the headbadge and the scarce ones on sale on ebay are expensive for me ;
     
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