TOC Lady Chainless Columbia


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JEAN MARIE

'Lil Knee Scuffer
Mar 3, 2016
18
22
62
#1
Hi ,

I'm happy to have found out my third american bike , here in France ; confirmed by Mr Columbia it dates from 1900-1910 , and even 1900-1901 if the trophy fork is original

here some pictures , and more reading in french here

http://forum.tontonvelo.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=35229&p=366243#p366243

any idea of what would mean the crest stamped on the right of fork head ?

thx in advance for any comment and assistance in getting missing parts : headbadge, fork plate, front wheel

col d1.jpg


col g1.jpg


col tf blason avt.jpg


col tf blason.jpg
 

dnc1

I live for the CABE
Apr 1, 2016
1,562
3,814
52
Wallingford, Oxfordshire, UK
#2
Hi ,

I'm happy to have found out my third american bike , here in France ; confirmed by Mr Columbia it dates from 1900-1910 , and even 1900-1901 if the trophy fork is original

here some pictures , and more reading in french here

http://forum.tontonvelo.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=35229&p=366243#p366243

any idea of what would mean the crest stamped on the right of fork head ?

thx in advance for any comment and assistance in getting missing parts : headbadge, fork plate, front wheel

View attachment 730067

View attachment 730068

View attachment 730069

View attachment 730070
Nice find @JEAN MARIE. Very difficult to read those markings on the fork crown, looks like some type of part number for the fork, but that wouldn't account for it appearing on both sides of the fork crown.
maybe try rubbing some dirt, or use a non permanent marker pen on the markings,
wipe off the excess and take another photo.
c'est très difficile à lire.
 
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JEAN MARIE

'Lil Knee Scuffer
Mar 3, 2016
18
22
62
#3
Hi Dnc1,

thx for your comments ; and first my best wishes for 2018 !!

here are some more pictures of both sides of the fork head ; now , I really wonder if these marks have any meaning , or if they are just the result of some assembly process ?

3 first picts are the right side , where some sort of " crest" is present ; the last one is the left side, where some light marks are present

col tf blason d 2.jpg
col tf blason d 3.jpg
col tf blason d 4.jpg
col tf blason g 2.jpg
 
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Craig Allen

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jun 23, 2016
110
239
64
Millville NJ
#4
They look like dings to me. However the small circles on the fork head are frame pins that are used to hold the bike together during the brazing process.
 
Likes: dnc1

ejlwheels

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Sep 7, 2006
645
155
Minneapolis, United States
#5
I believe the trophy fork without the steering tube clamp at the top for the neck is 1899 only.
I believe the drive cover plate is 1900 or later.
 

JEAN MARIE

'Lil Knee Scuffer
Mar 3, 2016
18
22
62
#6
I believe the trophy fork without the steering tube clamp at the top for the neck is 1899 only.
I believe the drive cover plate is 1900 or later.
Hi ,

thx for your comments , unfortunately my technical english is too poor , and reverso as well , to well understand what you have written

by dings do you mean small dents made during manufacturing process ?

and EJLwheels, could you please post a picture for each type of fork you describe , the one of 1899 , and the one after 1900 ?
 

Craig Allen

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jun 23, 2016
110
239
64
Millville NJ
#7
The dings or dents were not caused by the manufacturing process. They are there simply as a result of time. The bicycle is 100 plus years old so you have to expect dents and scratches.
 

ejlwheels

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Sep 7, 2006
645
155
Minneapolis, United States
#8
1898 trophy plate fork with stem/neck clamp
Copake april 2013 Lot#372 = 21806458.jpg


1899 trophy plate fork without stem/neck clamp
1899 columbia rusahu7y-1.jpg


1900- plain crown fork (still without stem/neck clamp, but not shown in illustration)
1900 Columbia 2.jpg
 

JEAN MARIE

'Lil Knee Scuffer
Mar 3, 2016
18
22
62
#9
1898 trophy plate fork with stem/neck clamp
View attachment 733974

1899 trophy plate fork without stem/neck clamp
View attachment 733975

1900- plain crown fork (still without stem/neck clamp, but not shown in illustration)
View attachment 733977
Graig, that makes sense ; do you know where should I look for any markings on the bike ?

thx Ejlwheels for the pictures ; it's now clearer to me ; when you write " the drive cover plate" , you mean the one protecting the front gear ?

based on your experience, may we say now that my bike is from 1899 or 1900 ?
 
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Craig Allen

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jun 23, 2016
110
239
64
Millville NJ
#10
The serial number should be located at the top of the seat tube on the right side. Columbia also offered to engrave the original owner's name on the trophy plate on the fork head.
 

ejlwheels

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Sep 7, 2006
645
155
Minneapolis, United States
#11
Your frame is definitely not 1898.
Your fork might have been an 1898 fork whose clamping top has been cut short,
but now at least it is basically a 1899 fork.
Beyond that, it is difficult to say without seeing it up close.

It is likely not 1899, because the seat post clamp would then be a collet style using a 1" diameter post
rather the the pinch bolt yours appears have. (Could that hole have been drilled later?)
Below, 1899 only seat post collet clamp:
1899 Columbia chainless 8907270_10_l.jpg




Does the seat post clamp bolt hole look clean and countersunk like this? Then the frame is probably 1900 or later.
1900 4.jpg


Your drive side cover plate is 1900 or later, but the crank arm looks like 1899.
Here is 1898, sharp right angle with not much shoulder.
1898 columbia_chainless06.jpg


Here is 1899, flat cover plate, right angle bend with well-defined shoulder.
1899 columbia masa2abe-1.jpg


Here is 1900 and later (all interchangeable) softer angle and less defined shoulder. Cover plate is stepped, not flat.
1900 2.jpg


From your pictures it seems that your frame and fork could be 1899 with a replaced 1900 or later cover plate (not sure if a 1900 or later plate will fit on a 1899)
or a 1900 (or later) frame with a replacement (1899) fork and possibly 1899 crank arms.
A 1900 frame should have 1 1/8" diameter tubes. I believe later frames have 1" diameter tubes.
 
Last edited:

David Brown

Finally riding a big boys bike
Dec 14, 2014
385
319
Kitchener, Canada
#12
I might be wrong but if my memory serves me right The !899 1900 crank arms will not fit later bikes crank arm axle is a tad thicker.
 

JEAN MARIE

'Lil Knee Scuffer
Mar 3, 2016
18
22
62
#13
ths a lot guys for so many usefull answers and pictures

at least , we are progressing

I have measured all diameters : the lowest tube and the saddle tube are 28,6 mm , ie 1 1/8 inch , ie from 1900 onwards
FYI , fork tube is 35mm, upper tube is 25,4 , oblique rear tube is 19,5mm and gear and opposite tube are 22,3 mm

for the saddle , the seat post clamp bolt hole looks clean and is countersunk
col tub sl.jpg


then the cover plate is like the 1900 plus
col renvoi av flasque.jpg


about the saddle clamp, they may have done different versions depending upon the model ; as you can see on the 1907 Peugeot catalogue below , the standard lady bike has a hole and screw, when the " de luxe" model has got the conical screw we see on the Columbia 1899 model
Peugeot 1907 Vélo.3.Dame.1.jpg
Peugeot 1907 Vélo.10.Dame Luxe.jpg


I know it well because I've bought recently one " de luxe model " , you can see it here :
http://forum.tontonvelo.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=34229

the pleasure I took to fix the front wheel was great !
 
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Sacket cycle works

Finally riding a big boys bike
Mar 22, 2013
264
227
Wichita, KS, United States
#14
Forgive my ignorance but are these chainless bikes very valueable? Can anyone throw out a number for a mens or womens bike.
Thanks
Chase
 

JEAN MARIE

'Lil Knee Scuffer
Mar 3, 2016
18
22
62
#15
Forgive my ignorance but are these chainless bikes very valueable? Can anyone throw out a number for a mens or womens bike.
Thanks
Chase
Hi Sacket ,

no precise idea, but you should contact MrColumbia , ie Kenneth Kowal , who is an expert in this field

prices actually depend upon the status of the bike ; anyway spare parts are looked for , and may cost a lot ; for example I need the headbadge and the scarce ones on sale on ebay are expensive for me ;
 
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