Unusual "made in usa" hub on a 1962 American

[Schwinn Sales West]

GT, Your included former CABE post about hubs does little to answer the sourcing questions. The Schwinn Deluxe front hubs used a #7 retainer, a separate dust cap that mounts into the hub and not on the cone. To my knowledge they always used a metric axle thread as long as I can remember. We always just called it the Schwinn Thread front axle to differentiate it from the 5/16 by 24 thread on a Wald type axle. It was a completely Schwinn unique hub design.

The German Union, or sometimes called Schwinn Approved front hub always used a metric thread, but it used a #5 retainer bearing. The union cone also had the dust cap mounted to the cone, not the hub like on the deluxe.

I would not expect what we are taking apart 50, 60, and 70 years later to be 100% as original. Many previous owners have made parts exchanges and their repairs before we start dissecting the bikes and researching for what was original. Schwinn's job number one was to get 4 to 5,000 bikes down the assembly line every working day. Lots of parts substitutions were made to keep the line running. Many times, they had parts flown in from Japan and Europe to maintain production. The dealers appreciated the efforts to fulfill their bike orders on the scheduled time. I don't ever remember any dealer telling me he was disappointed because his bike shipment had "Schwinn approved" hubs instead of the "Schwinn hubs" in the catalog.

I do not believe the Schwinn Approved stamping on the one deluxe hub pictured in your previous post solely means it was reproduced by an outside vendor, it's a good question. I do not have your final answer to this question. I have never heard that the Deluxe hubs were built anywhere but in the Chicago factory.

John

 

[cruisin_on_my_schwinn]

The deluxe hub would be a good choice for an American model. When Schwinn still made the hub, it was American Made.

I'm confused, who was this company that was commissioned to reproduce this hub in 1962? It's news to me.

I've only known that as the Deluxe Schwinn front hub. It's stamped in two halves, electro welded together in the middle. It has pressed in replaceable hardened bearing cups. It would be a very expensive hub to make unless your making millions of them, plus Schwinn already owned the tooling. I've seen them in both the 36 hole, and 28 hole drillings. I don't believe I've seen the deluxe hub in the 24 hole drilling, they were Union made hubs. The Union (Schwinn Approved) front hub was a good standard hub, and much less expensive to make and spec on a low cost model. Everything changed by the Murray Ohio time period.

John

If by "Deluxe Hub" you mean the one GTS58 posted a pic of, i will be using that as a replacement for the "Made In Usa" hub. Now my question is when did they start using the single speed red band Bendix hub? The replacement center stamped rims i got today have a Bendix single speed hub on it, but no red band. It has a smooth shell.

 

[piercer_99]

Bendix RB (red band) coaster was introduced by Bendix in 1961, manufactured through early 1963 when the RB2 was introduced.

 

[WillWork4Parts]

I believe the 61 Bendix rear hubs were still the smooth shell. Instead of a full round chamfer near the flanges, they had a clearly defined diagonal bevel....I guess that's how you describe that. Maybe this was a mid year change. I'll try to take pictures of the rear hub in a bit.

The original front hub posted here I have mostly found on lower end models, not on deluxe bikes. Who knows what Schwinn was trying to do to make these bikes more "American" during the lawsuit though. After seeing so many cracked, I would Not put one back on a bike I intend to ride.

I have found the Schwinn Approved front hubs on a 60 and a 61 model recently.

20" black speedster:

Either I didn't take pictures of the front hub internals, or they aren't on this phone.

This most recent hub was a friend's wheel set from a 61 girl's bike. He wanted the front hub swapped into the rear wheel, I'm assuming the front rim was shot.

These parts were Metric thread, Union made, Schwinn Approved, dated 5-61 as the stamp on the axle shows.

On a side note, I would think if Schwinn were originally making their low flange scripted hubs in the US, they would also be Standard thread. I couldn't see why they would just stop making them either. New Departure as a Division of General Motors, their company obviously had other focus is why their bicycle hubs went out of production. I think the Schwinn stamped hubs were just that, someone else made them all along and Schwinn had their stamp put on. I'm not sure what part is the most expensive in terms of tooling, but I would imagine mass production threading dies and heat treatment of bearing surfaces for hubs has to be pretty high up there, which is why most companies outsource hubs. Murray is the only exception I know of in the US when it comes to Coaster hubs, I believe they bought out Musselman later in it's life, but that's an entirely different subject to discuss.

 

[juvela]

-----

Excel based in Elgin, Illinois and a division of Beatrice Foods

they also produced ghastly derailleurs which were blatant copies of Huret Allvit

Excel derailleurs

I personally only remember one thing about Excel and that is that they produced their Ultimate derailleur (made for them by Rino) which was used by Lon Haldeman in the 1983 Race Across America. ...

www.disraeligears.co.uk

Excel & Elgin - American Derailleurs from Beatrice Foods

A blog about bicycles and bicycle riding. Emphasis on vintage and classic bikes, with lots about old vs. new technology.

bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com

-----

 

[cruisin_on_my_schwinn]

I believe the 61 Bendix rear hubs were still the smooth shell. Instead of a full round chamfer near the flanges, they had a clearly defined diagonal bevel....I guess that's how you describe that. Maybe this was a mid year change. I'll try to take pictures of the rear hub in a bit.

The original front hub posted here I have mostly found on lower end models, not on deluxe bikes. Who knows what Schwinn was trying to do to make these bikes more "American" during the lawsuit though. After seeing so many cracked, I would Not put one back on a bike I intend to ride.

I have found the Schwinn Approved front hubs on a 60 and a 61 model recently.

20" black speedster:

View attachment 1793141

View attachment 1793142
Either I didn't take pictures of the front hub internals, or they aren't on this phone.

This most recent hub was a friend's wheel set from a 61 girl's bike. He wanted the front hub swapped into the rear wheel, I'm assuming the front rim was shot.

View attachment 1793156

View attachment 1793157

View attachment 1793158

View attachment 1793159
These parts were Metric thread, Union made, Schwinn Approved, dated 5-61 as the stamp on the axle shows.

On a side note, I would think if Schwinn were originally making their low flange scripted hubs in the US, they would also be Standard thread. I couldn't see why they would just stop making them either. New Departure as a Division of General Motors, their company obviously had other focus is why their bicycle hubs went out of production. I think the Schwinn stamped hubs were just that, someone else made them all along and Schwinn had their stamp put on. I'm not sure what part is the most expensive in terms of tooling, but I would imagine mass production threading dies and heat treatment of bearing surfaces for hubs has to be pretty high up there, which is why most companies outsource hubs. Murray is the only exception I know of in the US when it comes to Coaster hubs, I believe they bought out Musselman later in it's life, but that's an entirely different subject to discuss.

Im replacing that hub with a schwinn script hub as you guys call it. I just noticed that while visually the same as all the posted script hubs, the hub i have does not have the approved stamp. Is this an earlier version?

 

[WillWork4Parts]

Im replacing that hub with a schwinn script hub as you guys call it. I just noticed that while visually the same as all the posted script hubs, the hub i have does not have the approved stamp. Is this an earlier version?

Yes, I would guess as early as 58 for when you started seeing Schwinn Approved stampings. This is just going off of what I remember seeing on bikes I've worked on in the past, I don't have anything document wise to back that up at the moment. It's only the last few years that I've found documents that I could get my hands on and thanks to people posting them on forums such as this great site that we get to see them. I picked up some Schwinn Reporters recently, will look to see if I can find anything for 62 hubs.

 

[WillWork4Parts]

This is the difference in 50s Bendix hub(top) and 60-61 Bendix hub(bottom) I was talking about. Notice the bevel?....and the fact that the hub shiner wore the chrome bare in spots.

The is is the same 61 rear hub I referred to before, loose from my friend's wheel. The one still in the wheel is from the 60 speedster, it was quite well lubed and I had to clean the funk off to see the bevel.

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

The reason for all of these changes in hub models and manufacturers was $$$$$. It simply cost Bendix more to produce a brake shell from one piece of metal, than to make it from three separate parts. Over time the spoke flanges became stamped parts pressed onto a center shell to save production costs. The reason the last Bendix 70 brakes were shipped from Mexico was because of $$$$$. All of these changes were driven by the need to build a product that could still compete on a dealer's sales floor with the lower cost imported bicycles. I cannot think of one change that was done to improve the product.

A good topic for this forum would be to discuss the BMA (Bicycle Manufacturers Association) fight over import duties to try and compete with offshore bicycles. In the end, they might have won a couple of the battles, but lost the war. Leon Dixon could give a lot of background on the history of how this all became the single thing that changed the entire U.S. Bicycle Industry.

John

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

I believe the 61 Bendix rear hubs were still the smooth shell. Instead of a full round chamfer near the flanges, they had a clearly defined diagonal bevel....I guess that's how you describe that. Maybe this was a mid year change. I'll try to take pictures of the rear hub in a bit.

The original front hub posted here I have mostly found on lower end models, not on deluxe bikes. Who knows what Schwinn was trying to do to make these bikes more "American" during the lawsuit though. After seeing so many cracked, I would Not put one back on a bike I intend to ride.

I have found the Schwinn Approved front hubs on a 60 and a 61 model recently.

20" black speedster:

View attachment 1793141

View attachment 1793142
Either I didn't take pictures of the front hub internals, or they aren't on this phone.

This most recent hub was a friend's wheel set from a 61 girl's bike. He wanted the front hub swapped into the rear wheel, I'm assuming the front rim was shot.

View attachment 1793156

View attachment 1793157

View attachment 1793158

View attachment 1793159
These parts were Metric thread, Union made, Schwinn Approved, dated 5-61 as the stamp on the axle shows.

On a side note, I would think if Schwinn were originally making their low flange scripted hubs in the US, they would also be Standard thread. I couldn't see why they would just stop making them either. New Departure as a Division of General Motors, their company obviously had other focus is why their bicycle hubs went out of production. I think the Schwinn stamped hubs were just that, someone else made them all along and Schwinn had their stamp put on. I'm not sure what part is the most expensive in terms of tooling, but I would imagine mass production threading dies and heat treatment of bearing surfaces for hubs has to be pretty high up there, which is why most companies outsource hubs. Murray is the only exception I know of in the US when it comes to Coaster hubs, I believe they bought out Musselman later in it's life, but that's an entirely different subject to discuss.

Why would you assume they would have used a 5/16 by 24 thread? They used a 26th on their cranks, not the normal 24th as found on other American build brands. They used unique tire sizes, etc. The Schwinn position was by using a finer thread pitch, it allowed for a finer bearing adjustment.

Showing a photo with an early dated Union made axle does not date the hub in question. Over the years Schwinn sold million's of replacement axle sets to dealerships that were used to sell over the parts counter and used in the service departments to repair their bicycles. The availability of any Schwinn service part needed was one of the Schwinn selling points. I'm NOT saying that the pictured axle was not original to your hub, there's just no way for us to know for sure today that the two parts were born together.

I have not ever read, heard, or seen documentation that Union built a Schwinn Deluxe hub.

If they did great. I'm just not yet convinced.

John