Wartime Schwinn New World Bikes - We Know You Have Them - Tell Us About Them!!

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Miq

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jan 12, 2019
732
49
Arizona
@GTs58 dug up a thread with this 1942 New World. Neat black out hubs. The rear bar mudguard stays look like replacements for broken original "wire" stays or maybe just another example of mix-master wartime building. ?? I'm guessing replacements by how they're "attached" to the rear axle...
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I74208 Serial Number is right in the 1942 mix.
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Miq

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jan 12, 2019
732
49
Arizona
@mr.cycleplane That's an outstanding example! 3 piece crank, great paint, stripes, and decals, and "World" stamped Mesigner saddle. I've never seen one of those before! New Departures hubs with a Small Arm Brake. Too cool.

That's a very well preserved prewar bike mr. cycleplane. Thank you for adding it to the thread. I captured it in the registry below:
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1motime

Finally riding a big boys bike
Aug 7, 2019
135
64
El Segundo, CA
Hello all New World fans! I am new to the CABE but a long time old bike old guy! These light weights seem to be coming out of the woodwork. From the beginning to Racers, Travelers and the whole evolution. Never really paid much attention to them until this came along. Prewar 3 speed, 3 piece crank, steel brakes, wire braces, etc. Serial number looks to be D4607. Came out of Northern California. Not sure of the back story. This has seen some SERIOUS weathering. Surface rust all over but no pitting. What remains of the chrome is very shiny. Tires and seat rotten but decals still readable. Was completely frozen but since taken completely apart. Did the OA thing and it all cleaned up with NO visible damage to threads. Seat frame has very nice chrome. Bike looked like it had never been apart before. Going to try to get ridable again with an oily cloth restoration for now. Picked up some nice S6 wheels with Kendas. My big issue is the Sturmey Archer hub. Original to the bike but completely frozen. Like to keep the original hub but any ideas of how to approach making it work? Anyone out there who specializes in these? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

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Miq

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jan 12, 2019
732
49
Arizona
Thanks @1motime! Another prewar with only four numbers after the letter in the serial. We've seen a few of these now, including the frame from @bricycle that I've been adding the leading 0 to accidentally (fixed below), @vincev 's crazy I#### serial bike, and @mr.cycleplane 's D#### ride. 1940 was a fun year for these bikes and these #### examples usually have 3 piece cranks, fancy front sprockets, and multi speed hubs. A lot nicer than the tourist coaster bikes like mine. :)

I really like that the decals are still so bright even with the very dull paint. I'm looking forward to seeing where you take it. Can you tell what the original paint color was? It looks like maroon under the BB.

You can really see why they call them "matress" saddles with the springs exposed. :D

The rear hub looks not so corroded from the outside. I have never taken a Sturmey apart, but I bet there is a lot of info here if you look for it and keep asking. Keep going!!
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Miq

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jan 12, 2019
732
49
Arizona
@mr.cycleplane I saw another World stamped Mesinger saddle on eBay today. It is slightly different than yours, and not in nearly as good a condition, but has a similar stamp.
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Yours looks like the "Suspension Mattress" touring saddle with the top eyelets.
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The eBay one looks more like a racing saddle but has bigger looking coil springs in back than this drawing. ???
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mr.cycleplane

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Sep 9, 2017
899
Auburn, California
Interesting seat-same cool logo! I like the 1939 date on it-Schwinn probably asked mesinger to come up with an English type saddle for this 'new' line of bikes! Halfway between my touring and a racing saddle- has a definate touring look but not as deep. hummmm...
 
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rennfaron

Finally riding a big boys bike
Sep 19, 2018
259
Austin, Texas
This one sold a couple weeks ago...

@mr.cycleplane that red / maroon color on your NW is one of my fav colors on this bike. It works really well with the gold decals and pinstripes. Next in line is just straight black. Nice bike!

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Miq

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jan 12, 2019
732
49
Arizona
@rennfaron Nice! Same top eyelet English style "World" stamped saddle as @mr.cycleplane 's.

You're right, Mr. Cycleplane's bike's original 1940 maroon paint, pins, and decals (and saddle) are some of the best preserved examples we've seen for prewar New Worlds. Still shines like it just came from the factory. :)
 
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Alan Brase

Look Ma, No Hands!
Feb 28, 2019
80
70
Cedar Falls, Iowa, USA
My 1940 Superior came with a saddle exactly like that, except with the "Superior" logo. Nice to have it, but what a heavy pig! I guess coming of age in the 1970's around Unicanitor and Brooks Pro spoiled me as to what a full steel spring saddle weighs! but if you're already riding on rock hard sew ups, who wants to insulate from that exquisite torture! I'm older now. Might have to rethink this.
 

1motime

Finally riding a big boys bike
Aug 7, 2019
135
64
El Segundo, CA
My prewar New World that is pictured earlier in this thread obviously needs a seat. I know these bikes were offered with choices. I sort of like the originality of the Mattress. Has anyone had one recovered / restored? A bit more complicated than a normal seat from the same period. Did they have a badge or just the stamp?
 

rennfaron

Finally riding a big boys bike
Sep 19, 2018
259
Austin, Texas
The problem with the 40s lightweight world saddles is they weren't built to endure 70+ years. It isn't actually leather and more of a leatherette, even if that. I bought a somewhat poorly recovered 50s lightweight mattress saddle. From what I saw, yes it can be done. The main thing is having a template to work from. And to get a template you need to have an original saddle that you can de-stitch, lay it flat, and use that to cut your new material from (also marking the rivet holes). Hopefully you use a beat up one for this purpose and don't rip apart a good one. From there it is a matter of stitching it back together. I think it could be done on a sewing machine that could accept the thicker material. The back part would be the hardest, where a few different planes of material come together. As far as the stamp goes, that would need to be custom made, as I have not seen that (unless someone has done this before out there). That part isn't all that hard either - https://www.etsy.com/listing/599714056/customized-branding-iron-stamps-custom - getting the design made up would be relatively easy. The backs have a schwinn plate riveted on.
 
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SirMike1983

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jun 27, 2008
3,120
United States
This is strictly from experience dealing with these bikes and parts - I'm not an expert or professional with saddle restoration. I'm talking here about the "tourist" or lightweight-style saddles from the 1940s. Some of the bikes had saddles from balloon tire bikes, which are a different animal.

The covering material was often called "fabrikoid" - a way of applying a spray to cloth to give it a leather-like appearance. It started with luggage but proved quite popular. It usually dries out and is brittle after 70+ years. I wouldn't put a whole lot of miles on an original saddle. The base material varies. Usually there's a layer of cusioning horse hair or other padding and a metal pan. Sometimes you have a heavy-duty leather layer in there as well. They vary somewhat, but I would deem the materials to be on the "primitive side" - cloth fabrikoid, horse hair, leather padding, batting, etc. Again, none of this gets better with 70 years of age - it all dries out. Some saddles have a solid metal base plate, others use springs in a hammock fashion.

The one constant with the "tourist" saddles I've seen is that they're uncomfortable by 70 years later. I did come across a couple 1950s-60s era saddles that were a bit better. But the early stuff from the 1940s was universally bad - very dry, very hard, or simply mis-formed with age. Some of the saddles are fascinating - slide rails, tornado springs, etc. But they're period pieces and something to keep with the bike rather than to ride. Even the ones that looked nice did not ride very well. I don't own a single one of the period saddles any more.

Every bike I own today, except for one, has a Brooks saddle on it (I own one ballooner, and that has a Troxel long spring - but different animal again). The Brooks B66 is my suggestion for a rider saddle. Save the original ones to complete the bike, but ride something newer and which you can custom break-in.
 

1motime

Finally riding a big boys bike
Aug 7, 2019
135
64
El Segundo, CA
The problem with the 40s lightweight world saddles is they weren't built to endure 70+ years. It isn't actually leather and more of a leatherette, even if that. I bought a somewhat poorly recovered 50s lightweight mattress saddle. From what I saw, yes it can be done. The main thing is having a template to work from. And to get a template you need to have an original saddle that you can de-stitch, lay it flat, and use that to cut your new material from (also marking the rivet holes). Hopefully you use a beat up one for this purpose and don't rip apart a good one. From there it is a matter of stitching it back together. I think it could be done on a sewing machine that could accept the thicker material. The back part would be the hardest, where a few different planes of material come together. As far as the stamp goes, that would need to be custom made, as I have not seen that (unless someone has done this before out there). That part isn't all that hard either - https://www.etsy.com/listing/599714056/customized-branding-iron-stamps-custom - getting the design made up would be relatively easy. The backs have a schwinn plate riveted on.
This is strictly from experience dealing with these bikes and parts - I'm not an expert or professional with saddle restoration. I'm talking here about the "tourist" or lightweight-style saddles from the 1940s. Some of the bikes had saddles from balloon tire bikes, which are a different animal.

The covering material was often called "fabrikoid" - a way of applying a spray to cloth to give it a leather-like appearance. It started with luggage but proved quite popular. It usually dries out and is brittle after 70+ years. I wouldn't put a whole lot of miles on an original saddle. The base material varies. Usually there's a layer of cusioning horse hair or other padding and a metal pan. Sometimes you have a heavy-duty leather layer in there as well. They vary somewhat, but I would deem the materials to be on the "primitive side" - cloth fabrikoid, horse hair, leather padding, batting, etc. Again, none of this gets better with 70 years of age - it all dries out. Some saddles have a solid metal base plate, others use springs in a hammock fashion.

The one constant with the "tourist" saddles I've seen is that they're uncomfortable by 70 years later. I did come across a couple 1950s-60s era saddles that were a bit better. But the early stuff from the 1940s was universally bad - very dry, very hard, or simply mis-formed with age. Some of the saddles are fascinating - slide rails, tornado springs, etc. But they're period pieces and something to keep with the bike rather than to ride. Even the ones that looked nice did not ride very well. I don't own a single one of the period saddles any more.

Every bike I own today, except for one, has a Brooks saddle on it (I own one ballooner, and that has a Troxel long spring - but different animal again). The Brooks B66 is my suggestion for a rider saddle. Save the original ones to complete the bike, but ride something newer and which you can custom break-in.
ThT

Thanks guys! That is what I thought. Hate to give up on original part. Same as using the original size rims. Not going to realistically happen. I know the original seat cover material is probably not a good idea to match. It could be done in a fairly stiff leather with the correct underlayer material. Everything is supported by the cross springs. Then the back panel, rivets, top eyelets, etc. Than the visuals of a stamp and badge. Sometimes it is wiser to shift gears. Since this is a 3 speed it is possible! These bikes were "platform" bikes so maybe have to find something convential that would have been offered when new.
 
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rennfaron

Finally riding a big boys bike
Sep 19, 2018
259
Austin, Texas
The other saddle types I have seen come standard look like this...studded and not studded.

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schwinn new world 003 (1024x768).jpg
 
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Miq

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Jan 12, 2019
732
49
Arizona
@Alan Brase That mattress saddle came in a few different forms. There were Paramount and Superior versions like you mentioned. The Paramount was real leather but the Superior was the "imitation leather" fabrikoid that @SirMike1983 wrote about.

I've been trying to figure out the prewar New World saddle options this past year. Here's some more info on possible saddles. Like @rennfaron showed above, there were Mesinger rubber padded seat options too. I found a 30's long spring Troxel for my bike that sort of looks like these, but I think it may be a little older than the bike. I'm ok with that. :) It's super comfy.

Here's the saddle info from the 1940 parts catalog. It only shows drawings ("photos") of the Mesinger padded saddles from the top but you can see it has the nose coil.
1940 Parts 1.JPG

1940 Parts 2.JPG


It does not show the drawings of the 1407 Mesinger Racing Saddle for New World, 7000 World Lightweight Saddle for New World, or the 7000A Lightweight Saddle for New World English Type

I'm thinking the 7000 is the World stamped saddle we see on @mr.cycleplane 's New World

@1motime I've heard most people say the same thing about the "matress suspension" saddles as rennfaron and SirMike1983. They are worn out after 70+ years. @piercer_99 is the only person I've heard say he's ridden a mattress saddle that wasn't worn out, and it was OK. Trying to recreate or even improve the springs in the top suspension would be a challenge. You can't easily re-compress the springs or find exact replacements I'm guessing. ?? It's clearly not a design that has stood the test of time, and the mattress style seems to have died for a reason. Not that comfy and not that durable.
 
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rennfaron

Finally riding a big boys bike
Sep 19, 2018
259
Austin, Texas
@Miq so it looks like there were three "standard" options down at the bottom for the NW. The mesinger racing saddle I am pretty sure is inline with one of the two or both of those saddles I posted (could just be from different years). The second, the World Lightweight Saddle, is the one we have referenced, with the world stamp. Do you know what that last one would be? And this saddle note in the '41 catalog: Schwinn english type lightweight or mesinger.
 

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