Weird Serial Number (Real or Not )

[altapat]

Hi @altapat Alvin.

In summary, the frame is probably correct, just misstamped.

If the chainwheel has not been replaced, then it's the earliest 'Sweetheart' type so far recorded.

Some of the parts, other than the frame, may be original to the bike, such as the badge, the chainwheel.

It is a restoration with several incorrect parts.

Does your friend have any 'pre restoration' photos?

Thanks,

Best Regards,

Adrian

Unfortunately there are no pre-restoration photos.

Indeed there are many non G519 parts. Chainring is like a Schwinn sweetheart. Wheels, seat, seatpost and fenders are not also correct.

This was sold last week and I don’t know who owns it now.
-Alvin

 

[altapat]

The chain adjusters look (albeit blurry photo) like they might have
a reducer threaded in, with smaller hex head bolts being used. Or it
could be just mix and match nuts and not reducers. I guess the
reducer theory would be rather random and unlikely.
Would need a better close-up photo of that to be sure.

They look like bolts .

 

[Mercian]

Hi @altapat Alvin,

Thanks for the followup.

You are right, the 'Sweetheart' ring is not the type usually seen on thses bikes, and so is a replacement. I will change my records accordingly. It is an interesting coincidence that it really does come just at the changeover from Coffin to Sweetheart rings. I suspect (though I have no written proof) that the change coincides with the issue of the third contract for MG serialled bikes.

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

[altapat]

Hi @altapat Alvin,

Thanks for the followup.

You are right, the 'Sweetheart' ring is not the type usually seen on thses bikes, and so is a replacement. I will change my records accordingly. It is an interesting coincidence that it really does come just at the changeover from Coffin to Sweetheart rings. I suspect (though I have no written proof) that the change coincides with the issue of the third contract for MG serialled bikes.

Best Regards,

Adrian

Hey Andrian,

How many MGs were produced in total ? And how many Daytons? Do you have documents to support the numbers?

Thanks,
Alvin

 

[Mercian]

Hi Alvin,

The staright answer is no, the exact number is not known, but rough estimates can be made.

That's a series of difficult questions, and it may be that people such as @johan willaert are able to answer it better. I will put what I think/know, and I'm happy to discuss.

The US Government printed details of all contracts over $50,000 at the end of the war, so some of the information comes from there. Unfortunatly, they quote cost and not number of bicycles, so unlees you know the individual cost of the bicycles (we don't) the information is useful only to give general size of contract, contract number, and the dates they ran. Also, earlier contracts may include set up costs, so will appear larger than they are.

It means also that small (less than $50,000) will not show up, and we know that some military bikes were produced in small numbers, such as this USMC bike:

1943 Dayton Huffman USMC bicycle information wanted | Military Bicycles

Greetings, everyone. I'm looking for any and all information about my 1943 Dayton Huffman USMC bicycle. I would describe it as a diamond frame lightweight men's bike with front fork truss rods and a rear axle drop-down stand. This bicycle may be described in U.S. Government Federal...

thecabe.com

Also threr was a1943 order for 500 Huffman Model 81-81 Folding Bicycles which may be the same as the Huffman Model HF-777 Folding Bicycle

See Johan's page here for more details:

Military Bicycles

Johann says that Lend-lease bikes of unknown models and makes were supplied to:

China 2,645
Russia 11,205

Note Lend Lease came into effect on March 11th 1941.

I'm not sure where his information came from, but he has a nice webpage on the subject here:

Lend-Lease Liberators

The contract details below come from the Smithsonian.

So it seems for Huffman, there are three discrete large contracts

294ORD2341 $399,000 from 4/43 to 11/43
294ORD2594 $96,000 from 7/43 to 11/43
33008ORD159 $70,000 from 10/43 to 3/44



Alvin, I'm out of time for today, you can see how big a subject it is. I will return to it later in the week, and I guess there may be other contributions.

Best regards,

Adrian

 

[johan willaert]

From the 1952 published US Army Statistics for WW2.

A total of 72.105 bicycles (three different types) were made in 1942-43-44-45
The types are not further detailed, but most likely Columbia Men's and Women's and Huffmans

 

[altapat]

Thanks Adrian and Johan for your answers with details and documentations.

Now that this question has been answered, no doubt that more and more bicycle collectors and enthusiasts are madly looking for this.

Cheers,
Alvin

 

[Mercian]

Hi All,

For those, like me, who had not previously seen @johan willaert 's WW2 Statistics document, and are interested in WW2 US equipment in general, it's a fascinating read.

A good downloadable copy is available here:

http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Stats/USA_in_WW2_Stats-Procure_9-APR-52.PDF

Best Regards,

Adrian