Westfield Frame Numbers 1933 - 1945

[bobbystillz]

Here's one for the list... J 39778 (?)
Westfield frame, with custom paint job done in early to mid '50s. Badge is not correct, so don't know the brand. 4 Lima bean chain wheel (24t).

This was the bike before I got it. It had been parted, so I only got the frame, guard, bars, and crank assembly.

 

[Mercian]

Hi bobbystillz,

Thanks, an interesting bike. Could you confirm that the overcode above the serial number is N3?

J39778, N3 was probably made March 1945. It was still using at least some wartime spec. "Blackout" parts, you can see the blackout paint on the back of the chainring.

N3 was possibly the last dating overcode used by Westfield before they stopped this system, and this is the latest survivor yet known with it stamped on, so very useful for my tables.

This 'Spitfire' badged Westfield comes just after yours, so may be an appropriate badge to look for.

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/civilian-wartime-spitfire.81388/

I am currently updating the original tables, I already have 100 more bikes than last time, and will include this one. I will publish them here when finished.

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

[bobbystillz]

Hi bobbystillz,

Thanks, an interesting bike. Could you confirm that the overcode above the serial number is N3?

J39778, N3 was probably made March 1945. It was still using at least some wartime spec. "Blackout" parts, you can see the blackout paint on the back of the chainring.

N3 was possibly the last dating overcode used by Westfield before they stopped this system, and this is the latest survivor yet known with it stamped on, so very useful for my tables.

This 'Spitfire' badged Westfield comes just after yours, so may be an appropriate badge to look for.

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/civilian-wartime-spitfire.81388/

I am currently updating the original tables, I already have 100 more bikes than last time, and will include this one. I will publish them here when finished.

Best Regards,

Adrian

I do not see an N3 stamped anywhere, but it does have blackout parts (original owner tried to buff off the black). I actually have that badge, and my bike looks very close, if not exact, to the one you've linked. It is bolted on, so either he lost the headbadge screws after when he painted it, or it doesn't belong on this year frame?

Thanks for the info Adrian!

 

[Mercian]

Hi Again,

That's excellent news on the badge. I understand from comments on the other link that it's an unusual badge for a Westfield, so I think the coincidence is too great that someone would put it on by chance. i think it's likely that it's the original badge, which would mean that your bike originally resembled the one in the link (note, he thinks the three speed was not original to his bike). And yes, oversize screws.

It's funny how you can convince yourself you see something in a picture. I'm was sure I could see N3 (widely separated) towards the top of the BB in your photo. OK, so if it's not there, then yours is the first recorded without this dating system, which is equally useful to know. It would still be March-April 1945.

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

[bobbystillz]

Hi Again,

That's excellent news on the badge. I understand from comments on the other link that it's an unusual badge for a Westfield, so I think the coincidence is too great that someone would put it on by chance. i think it's likely that it's the original badge, which would mean that your bike originally resembled the one in the link (note, he thinks the three speed was not original to his bike). And yes, oversize screws.

It's funny how you can convince yourself you see something in a picture. I'm was sure I could see N3 (widely separated) towards the top of the BB in your photo. OK, so if it's not there, then yours is the first recorded without this dating system, which is equally useful to know. It would still be March-April 1945.

Best Regards,

Adrian

I will double check. Could be covered in paint and really faint.

 

[3-speeder]

Hey Adrian what do you make of this one? Looks like they started to stamp it at one point and then added a complete stamp at another point. Have you seen one like this? Thanks for your thoughts, Bob

 

[Mercian]

Hi Bob,

Thanks, that one is out of the ordinary (-:

H12 is easy, the frame was made December 1941.

G53878 is the 'actual' serial number, when the bike was built up, around April/May 1942.

This is an odd period for bike manufacture and especially for Westfield. Pearl Harbor occurred in Dec 41, and industry in the US started to go onto a war footing. Bike manufacture for civilians was suspended for a time from 3rd April 42, with sales to government agencies only from 13th May 42, and rationed civilian sales from 15th May1942.

Westfield were already fully involved in the war effort. Between February and March 42 they were building G519 military bikes, and this serial number comes after that big block of G519.

So, at a guess, the frame was made around Pearl Harbor, but put to one side for some months whilst Westfield worked through a Military contract. It was then built up as the contract ended, either just before, or just after the freeze on bicycle sales.

So, where does that leave the G3057 number? I'm not sure. You can find two numbers stamped on some Bluebird bicycles (see N131994, B10 (Oct 1935), later restamped A191718 for late 1936). I have guessed that these were unsold/demonstration/display items that were returned for refurbishment and resale. But it is a guess.

For this bike, if G3057 was an earlier serial number, it would be early 1942, which fits with the Dec 41 frame date. So, again a guess, perhaps they started building it up, it was allocated a frame number, then put to one side partially completed to build the military contract. By the time the military contract was finished, new rules said blackout parts were to be fitted, so, since the specification had changed, it was allocated a new number. As a guess, it works.

But for two things.

G3057 would have been an early 1942 number, except that Westfield at this time normally started at 5000, and claim to have started at G17434 in 1942, so this number shouldn't exist as a frame number.

The 3, 7 and possibly the 5 are different font to Westfield's normal font, the 3 being flat topped, in comparison to the usual round topped 3 below it; and the stem of the 7 being a different shape. So I don't think it was stamped by Westfield, although it seems to have original paint over it.

In conclusion, it's interesting, and I wish I knew the answer. Perhaps a Government serial number? (Military bikes have an M stamped in front of the serial to indicate Military). Certainly, I've never seen this before.

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

[3-speeder]

Thanks for the info and I appreciate your thoughts on that one. Wanted to share it with you for your data base. I figured it was kind of an oddball. If you haven't seen the '39 Westfield made D98 that I posted have a look here:
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1939-westfield-built-victory-bicycles-d98-with-3-speed.143236/
Hope this helps you with your cataloging of these great machines. Bob

 

[Mercian]

Thanks Bob,

I'm just working through the update and searching in date order. I've not got to 1939 yet, and am pleased to see this bike, since, for some reason, there seem to be few 1939 survivors.

Other comments about the bike are on that thread.

Have a Good Weekend,

Adrian

 

[tech549]

Adrian here is another one I just picked up believe to be a 38 ---- serial # c97480 --- E5 Hartford badged------ thank you