What would you do?

[Flat Tire]

What position is there really to be stuck in? The answers just aren't that tough, "It's a Davis Mfg. bike, I like the HD bikes and made the mods to create a nice Harley look-alike." "Is it for sale? Sure, it's for sale, as a Davis mfg. bike with the original hardware."

There's just really no dilemma here. And although a philosophical one, it's still just a conversation about old bikes.

Your right theres no problem with someone saying they liked the HD better so they changed the badge and sprocket, but what I was talking about was in response to the original post which was " if you made it into a HD, would you feel obligated to disclose the bicycles history to the potential buyer? So what I was saying is if you called it an original bike, built for HD by Davis, then how are you going to answer those questions now that youve already said it was original?

 

[Talewinds]

Your right theres no problem with someone saying they liked the HD better so they changed the badge and sprocket, but what I was talking about was in response to the original post which was " if you made it into a HD, would you feel obligated to disclose the bicycles history to the potential buyer? So what I was saying is if you called it an original bike, built for HD by Davis, then how are you going to answer those questions now that youve already said it was original?

Yes indeed, one could then find themselves in quite the predicament.

There seems to be two discussions, or more like two hypothetical situations in question within this thread. The first is the obvious "What would you do?" question. The second question that has surfaced, but was bound to anyway is the "What about the rest of the bike culture and the potentially unscrupulous portion of it that is more than willing to try to pull a fast one on the public."

 

[redline1968]

there is no replica. its simple. a restored harley and a daytonia. no tricks no extra holes no anything they are real.

 

[bairdco]

another thing this topic brings up, is what happens if you buy an old frame that could be a Harley, but you're just not sure?

as an example, i have 4 Colson Imperial-style frames. only 2 have Colson badges, and one of them is badged as an Olympic.

the Olympic came with a skiptooth sprocket, rear drop stand, and enough pre-war parts to make me believe it's a pre-war bike, yet i can't find any documentation for pre-war olympics.

now, the other two frames could've had Goodyear badges on them for all i know, so would it be wrong to restore them as Goodyear bikes and sell them as such?

since there's no definite serial number match-ups (that i know of) to differentiate between a Colson badged bike or a Goodyear badged bike, who's to say if it's wrong or right?

badged either way, a Colson and a Goodyear would sell for the same amount of money more or less, so does that lessen the moral dilemna?

i would still explain to a seller that it's a "restored" bike using correct parts and not a complete original, but it's still something to think about.

 

[Talewinds]

You bring up a very good point and some very good example bairdco! The comparison has already been made here to the classic car world but I'm not certain it's a good or fair comparison. When it comes to collectible and rare automobiles, there are very few undiscovered forgeries these days. We all admire and trust guys like Phil Marshall here, and there are guys just like him in the automotive world, guys that have REALLY been around. Beyond VIN numbers, the idiosyncrasies of the old cars are "known", often times each and every example of a rare model is known as to it's history and current whereabouts.
The same cannot be said for old bikes. Bairdco you are correct, there is just too much gray area sometimes to make it worth debating the authenticity of many of these old bikes.

 

[dave the wave]

but if you want to make a harley.you have to get the correct parts.the drop stand has a diamond cutout instead of the triangle cutout.and the fenders are not 1in.sided but 1 1/4in sided.

 

[redline1968]

I quess 1 1/8 isnt close enough. guess i junk it. call it a clone....

 

[dave the wave]

1 1/8in.? that could be how long they are.i know they are longer than 1in.

 

[redline1968]

depends on where you measure and if you take in the depth of the fenders its more and above the crest is more. i gave myself the lesser. here are some extra photos interesting peddlels they are 2pc and odd. braces are weird also. i just found those peddles. they are in the 1919 hd catalog as optional torringtons with removable parts to repair them. cool.

 

[rustyspoke66]

I believe there is a big difference between bairdco's example and redline1968's example. I have also picked up bike without badges and badged them to my likeing as specially with H.P.Snyder built frames, they had all kinds of badges on them and if your starting with a unknown then sure put a badge on there that you like as long as it was something that came on a H.P.Snyder frame. As far as the HD / Daytonia deal, you are starting with a known and that would be a original paint Daytonia. I'm sure that the switch has been done before but that doesn't make it right and I think it may be like messing with history. I mean what would be wrong with owning an original paint Daytonia. Like I said we are dealing with a original piece of history,not a badgeless bike that you can build into what you want.