Wood rims and tires?

[dnc1]

I’ve been thinking of getting some Stutzman wood rims, the kind with the alloy rim imbedded in them. This might make them more stable and you could use higher pressure. I have an early fixed gear 40 spoke hub and I could buy an early 32 hub. I would also have to buy the alloy rims for him to wrap.

I thought he used just a basic aluminium channel section inside his conventional clincher rims. Which is attached to the wood with a couple of small screws.
I wasn't aware that you had to provide aluminium rims which he then clads with wood.
I could be wrong.
If anyone has a set of 'Stutzman' rims with the aluminium liners it would be good to see photos of how they are constructed.

I'm familiar with 'Cerchio Ghisallo' products and their 'Ultimate' (carbon fibre) lined rims; it would be interesting to see how this carbon fibre liner holds up long-term under changeable atmospheric conditions.

Like you, I often have to retrue the vintage wood rims I have after every ride.

 

[Barfbucket]

I thought he used just a basic aluminium channel section inside his conventional clincher rims. Which is attached to the wood with a couple of small screws.
I wasn't aware that you had to provide aluminium rims which he then clads with wood.
I could be wrong.
If anyone has a set of 'Stutzman' rims with the aluminium liners it would be good to see photos of how they are constructed.

I'm familiar with 'Cerchio Ghisallo' products and their 'Ultimate' (carbon fibre) lined rims; it would be interesting to see how this carbon fibre liner holds up long-term under changeable atmospheric conditions.

Like you, I often have to retrue the vintage wood rims I have after every ride.

The Ghisallo carbon fiber insert ones are no better than the unlined wood rims. They still get soft and need truing. I’ve had them since they first came out. The silver late 1920s Gloria track bike posted above started out as only a dented and bent frame and fork. I used nos first generation Campignolo telephone dial hubs laced to the carbon insert wood rims. It also has a cottered Campy bb, that is smooth as butter. Campy one inch pitch cog, nos Wipperman block chain still in the tin. $2000 for that stuff. A project that got way out of hand. The frame had dents removed, two new tubes, new track rear fork ends and a track alignment and rear spacing changed from 114mm to 120mm. A frame builder did this after I made it worse trying to fix it myself. The advantage is you can use higher pressure in your clinchers with carbon. The late 1920s silver Gloria track bike in my earlier photo has the carbon insert. That bike is fast. I feel comfortable with 60psi, I’m not interested in pushing to the max, which I think is 80 psi. My unlined wood wheels I use 30+ psi with clinchers. I haven’t read anything about Stutzman bicycle wheels for years. Back then he had just built his first bicycle wood wheels and the customer wanted alloy rims imbedded in the wood. Stutzman did it without any guarantee that it would work, he then built others like this. I don’t know what he is using now. I’m probably behind the 8 ball on this. He could standardize and save time if he used the same insert each time. Makes more sense.

 

[NikeAjax]

Great input guys--very insightful/enlightening! These last few posts make me think I'll just make a faux-TOC-bike, like say, from a "tourist bike", with a coaster brake, repro-saddle, etc. This way I can make it a color-scheme that I like/prefer. Things like always having to re-true rims, or broken chains, then finding a fix for whatever vintage part is amiss, doesn't sound like much fun.

I have waaaay too many collections already! How's this for obscure?

Vintage scuba gear Yeah, I can get pretty geeky too... Oh wait, then there's my vintage camping/hiking gear...

I try not to do Coleman, as it's way too easy...

Jaybird

 

[Archie Sturmer]

I'll just make a faux-TOC-bike

That's why pictures help, in order to match the options to be appropriate to the bike.

 

[NikeAjax]

"That's why pictures help, in order to match the options to be appropriate to the bike."

There lies the problem mate: I don't have any!

I have looked at a few on eBait, and thought, "Oh, that's real cute...", but don't know enough about them to know what's good, but more so, plausible. I can fix damnearanything you put in front of me, but first I have to learn to identify what I'm looking at, which is why I'm trying to learn from y'all

JB

 

[Barfbucket]

"That's why pictures help, in order to match the options to be appropriate to the bike."

There lies the problem mate: I don't have any!

I have looked at a few on eBait, and thought, "Oh, that's real cute...", but don't know enough about them to know what's good, but more so, plausible. I can fix damnearanything you put in front of me, but first I have to learn to identify what I'm looking at, which is why I'm trying to learn from y'all

JB

Here is my faux toc. It’s made from a Hercules 3 speed. I retained the cottered crank. I used a tall stem as the frame is small. I’m 5’8” and my son is 6’1” and it fits us both. I don’t like the mustache bars as there aren’t enough comfortable hand positions so 30 miles is the furthest I could ride it. You could find modern bars that kind of mimic toc bars by turning them upside down. The gallows seat post was extended by welding on a section of another post. The new Chinese leather seat was aged by setting it in a thin disposable aluminum baking pan filled with melted paraffin. The seat was slightly and unevenly scorched by the stove burner. Phillips center pull front brake, coaster brake on the rear. It originally had 26 inch wheels but I found that 700c fit this frame. The hole for the rear brake mount was filled with epoxy plumbers putty and a fancy point was molded sticking out the back. After sanding and shaping it was covered in a thin coat of JB Weld. I used cloth strips to wrap the bars and worked in quick setting epoxy. I’m cheap, but real cloth bar wrap and shellac would be better and easier to remove.

 

[dWan]

Ahoy from the SF Bay Area! I'm new here, so I have a few questions before taking the plunge of buying a antique bike. I'm totally diggin' the idea of getting and using a bike from the 1890's-1900's. So my question is about wood rims and the tires that go with them. I see 28" as a common size, what tires do I need to use for them, and how difficult are they to obtain?

Thanks in advance,
Jaybird

I purchased wood rims from Ghisallo in Italy for my 1898 ladies safety. The wheels were then built by Wheelbuilder in Azusa, CA on period hubs that I sent them with the rims. The tires are white Panaracer clinchers per the photo. Even though Ghisallo says they can take more pressure you have to keep them below 30psi or they will blow off the rims - I know from having them do it in the back of the car. The bike is quite ride-able.

 

[Barfbucket]

I purchased wood rims from Ghisallo in Italy for my 1898 ladies safety. The wheels were then built by Wheelbuilder in Azusa, CA on period hubs that I sent them with the rims. The tires are white Panaracer clinchers per the photo. Even though Ghisallo says they can take more pressure you have to keep them below 30psi or they will blow off the rims - I know from having them do it in the back of the car. The bike is quite ride-able.

View attachment 1601132

My Ghisallo carbon lined rim has black Panaracer 40mm smoothies on it and it takes 60 psi no problems. It’s on a fixed gear Gloria and has been ridden from Calumet Mi. round trip to Marquette, Mi twice, that’s over 500 miles and twice from Marquette to Wetmore, another 240 miles. It’s used most days in the winter on balance rollers. There has never been a tire issue. My other non carbon lined rims with Panaracer Gravel King slicks or Duro tires can hold 35 psi no problem. Their from Ghisallo and another Italian wood wheel company. I’m thinking something’s not right for you. Tires come in such a wide variety of sidewall flex and bead type. Are you using tubeless tires? I’m using both wire and Kevlar beads with tube type tires. I wonder if wire beads would work for you. My Duros have wire beads and are very easy to mount. The Panaracers were tighter but I could mount them easily. They have stiffer sidewalls than some others. 700c x 38 and 40mm black tires is what I’m using. Here is one with Duro wire bead on non Ghisallo rims. 32 pounds no problem. I wonder if inexpensive heavy stiff sidewall tires would stay on for you?

 

[Barfbucket]

I don’t think there is anything wrong with having a toc bicycle with the fake wood rims I’ve seen for sale on this site. I have two with fakes I made and three with the real thing. Old wood wheels that have been bent fo 50 years won’t stay true, need a lot of adjusting, the hub races are usually bad and have to be a little loose because of pitting, if you can use them at all. The original single tube rims can take 33 mm cyclocross tubulars, but they don’t fill the rim so ugly black dirt mixes with the tubular glue along the rim. I’ve built modern wood clinchers for these bikes, but I ride with both sets. The wood wheel spoke tension gets soft as the spoke tension pushes the nipple head washers into the wood. A 5 hour trip with the wood rim clamped in a carrier results in a wobble that I fixed before the event. So, I think it’s nice to have at least one of these old bicycles you can ride without having to mess with spokes. If you want a carefree rider then alloy or fakes make sense. We want to see these bikes used, but original safe usable rims, tires and hubs are gone.

 

[Walters_Alex]

I don’t think there is anything wrong with having a toc bicycle with the fake wood rims I’ve seen for sale on this site. I have two with fakes I made and three with the real thing. Old wood wheels that have been bent fo 50 years won’t stay true, need a lot of adjusting, the hub races are usually bad and have to be a little loose because of pitting, if you can use them at all. The original single tube rims can take 33 mm cyclocross tubulars, but they don’t fill the rim so ugly black dirt mixes with the tubular glue along the rim. I’ve built modern wood clinchers for these bikes, but I ride with both sets. The wood wheel spoke tension gets soft as the spoke tension pushes the nipple head washers into the wood. A 5 hour trip with the wood rim clamped in a carrier results in a wobble that I fixed before the event. So, I think it’s nice to have at least one of these old bicycles you can ride without having to mess with spokes. If you want a carefree rider then alloy or fakes make sense. We want to see these bikes used, but original safe usable rims, tires and hubs are gone.

It's all about enjoying your "ride" & having fun! Cheers