WTB: Troxel No. 36 Juvenile C.C. Saddle / Seat - $2500


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Buddyroe

Look Ma, No Hands!
Mar 1, 2016
88
40
51
Bloomingdale, GA
#22
I think that the seat I'm looking for would have a side profile similar to one of these adult seats. Notice in the picture I included from the IJ catalog that the seat looks much thinner than the seats I currently have and everyone is offering. Also, notice that the seat does not look to be rounded at the back corners, but more squared off. Just looks more like a longer, less rounded seat than anything I've ever actually seen. Then again, how would we ever know what a Troxel No. 36 C.C. seat actually looks like? It's not like there's one left in the box somewhere to compare it.

Does anyone have a clue what the C.C. might stand for?


1566220039630.png

1566219594399.png
1566219728635.png
 
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Buddyroe

Look Ma, No Hands!
Mar 1, 2016
88
40
51
Bloomingdale, GA
#23
Here's another adult example. Just looking at these seats, it seems like the way they built them changed somewhere in the late teens or early 20s. It seems like the older ones were built using a piece of plywood and 2 pieces of leather. The leather was sewn together around the plywood and the seam seems to be vertical in orientation. This created sort of the lip you see around the back portion of this seat (and the ones above). But, at some point, I guess technology allowed the manufacturers to stamp metal easily and they could create a metal frame. This created a more rounded and contoured seat. Since the metal also had sides, now the seam was below the metal and was more horizontal. This stamped metal, with its sides, made the seat appear much thicker than the earlier seats.

All of this is just my guess from studying these seats for the last few years.

I wish someone out there really understood these seats and how they were built and could tell me exactly what is in that picture from the catalog!

1566222716611.png
 

hoofhearted

Saint Lactose The Tolerant
Jan 20, 2010
4,107
6,820
Fairborn, Ohio
#27
And so, Jesse … where the fiddle-dee-dee is @bike ?

Fast asleep with his arm on the tiller ? …………… Yoo-Hoo … bike .. .. Yoo-Hoo…..
Worst thing I can say about this saddle is The Dust …...
 
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Buddyroe

Look Ma, No Hands!
Mar 1, 2016
88
40
51
Bloomingdale, GA
#32
All - I wanted to update this thread and tell everyone that I think I've found my seat. It is awesome. I feel like a kid on Christmas day (the best Christmas ever!). I will post some pictures later. It appears to be NOS but still has a couple of issues. I was hesitant on most seats posted here because they didn't have Troxel on the little flap (as I know almost all Troxel seats between 1915 and 1920 that I've ever seen have) or they appeared to be a later seat than 1919 (I based what I thought a 1919 seat would look like on what other verified seats of that time frame looked like). I really feel that what most people have posted on this thread are late 20s to late 30s. Awesome and amazing seats, I loved seeing them and would LOVE to own them - but not quite what I was looking for. This is the first juvenile seat I have ever seen like this. It also clearly has Troxel stamped on the flaps, and Troxel didn't exactly make a bunch of different juvenile models during that time. I'm 99% sure this the same seat that was on this bike in 1919 when a happy little boy rode it the for the first time on Christmas morning.

Now there is a couple issues with this little seat, even though I don't think it was ever used. It is very dirty and needs to be cleaned and hopefully oiled somehow. And the carriage is pretty rusty. It looks like it probably sat in a pile of seats or other parts in a warehouse or outbuilding for quite a while. Something was pressing against the front of the frame and pushed it over to the side into one of the flaps. I REALLY do not want to attempt to push it back myself (or unscrew it to move it back). I am hoping to find someone who is an expert on these seats who can possibly take it apart for me, clean it up, get the leather treated somehow and get the carriage looking good, but not new. If you know anyone, please give me their name or direct them to me. I would really appreciate it.

Hopefully this thread will serve as a place for those in the future looking for an extremely rare and hard to find juvenile seat to come "shopping". I was shocked how many seats are actually out there (if someone is willing to spend some money! haha).

EDIT: Another thing about this seat that lead me to believe it is much older than the seats posted in this thread is that it is made of wood and has actual leather stitched to the bottom. This is the first one I have seen like that. Maybe some of you have seen one.
 

locomotion

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jan 15, 2011
2,621
1,565
QC
#33
I have a juvenile seat with those distinctive seat springs with an original leather top
mine is stamped Rollfast

20190824_172635.jpg
 
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locomotion

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jan 15, 2011
2,621
1,565
QC
#34
I still have (1) example of this seat
unfortunately mine is far from NOS, and it has a red leather top.
does have the Troxel seat stamp on both sides, like it should !!!
I have owned (3) seats like this with Troxel side stamps and all 3 had a red leather top, never seen this seat in brown or black top with a stamp

Please share a picture of your NOS seat, would like to see it
Here are the pics of mine, along with my Rollfast seat from the previous post

20190824_172542 (2).jpg


20190824_172558 (2).jpg


20190824_172653 (2).jpg
 
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Likes: hoofhearted

Freqman1

Riding a '37 Dayton Super Streamline
Jul 14, 2009
17,440
20,360
Evans, GA
#36
So to the guy who said that yours was the only pre ‘20 juvenile bike to exist-quit listening to him! Obviously he knows little about bikes. I’ve seen more than a handful of pre ‘20 juvenile bikes and this is not even an area I pay a lot of attention to. Just say’n
 

locomotion

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Jan 15, 2011
2,621
1,565
QC
#37
So to the guy who said that yours was the only pre ‘20 juvenile bike to exist-quit listening to him! Obviously he knows little about bikes. I’ve seen more than a handful of pre ‘20 juvenile bikes and this is not even an area I pay a lot of attention to. Just say’n
I think he might be referring to pre-1920's Iver Johnson juvenile bikes ..... obviously everyone have seen other pre-1920 juvenile bikes, plenty of those around !!!
 

hoofhearted

Saint Lactose The Tolerant
Jan 20, 2010
4,107
6,820
Fairborn, Ohio
#38
So to the guy who said that yours was the only pre ‘20 juvenile bike to exist-quit listening to him! Obviously he knows little about bikes. I’ve seen more than a handful of pre ‘20 juvenile bikes and this is not even an area I pay a lot of attention to. Just say’n
===================================================

Still being built ... 1917, 20-inch wheel H-D Racer.

Original frame / fork .. drilled at Davis factory for H-D badge.

Have 36 spoke, front and rear wooden wheels ...
finished in orange shellac … with NOS Chain Treads.
Incorrect metal clads are shown in foto.


Correct 20-T Davis-Built ring.

Authentic ... minty H-D Badge.

Frame has NO numbers ... it's rare to find a H-D or
a Davis juvi that has numbers stamped.


Only modded part is the handle bar ... re-bent from
a 5/8-inch O.D. Schineer Bar. Did the work m'self.
Perfecto. Made numerous bending patterns of
sheet aluminum. No kinks .. no creases.


So how do i know it's a first-year frame ?

The early ones ... '17 and '18 were lugged frames
with main tubes of 7/8-inch tubing. Later juvi frames
… '18 thru '21 had no lugging … did have 1-inch O.D. tubing.


..... patric


20 inch wheel juvi  davis  h-d.jpg

$_57jhgk h-d davis juvi.jpg

Davis 20 Tooth.JPG


IMG_20150402_155530378 juvi.jpg




juvi saddle dfa242.jpg


…...….……...Below Are 1919 thru 1921Davis / H-D Juvies ....


MhSnx-1 h-d juvi.jpg


H-D museum 20 inch wheel and tire ...  h-d juvi.jpg
 
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Buddyroe

Look Ma, No Hands!
Mar 1, 2016
88
40
51
Bloomingdale, GA
#39
===================================================

Still being built ... 1917, 20-inch wheel H-D Racer.

Original frame / fork .. drilled at Davis factory for H-D badge.

Have 36 spoke, front and rear wooden wheels ...
finished in orange shellac … with NOS Chain Treads.
Incorrect metal clads are shown in foto.


Correct 20-T Davis-Built ring.

Authentic ... minty H-D Badge.

Frame has NO numbers ... it's rare to find a H-D or
a Davis juvi that has numbers stamped.


Only modded part is the handle bar ... re-bent from
a 5/8-inch O.D. Schineer Bar. Did the work m'self.
Perfecto. Made numerous bending patterns of
sheet aluminum. No kinks .. no creases.


So how do i know it's a first-year frame ?

The early ones ... '17 and '18 were lugged frames
with main tubes of 7/8-inch tubing. Later juvi frames
… '18 thru '21 had no lugging … did have 1-inch O.D. tubing.


..... patric


View attachment 1053000
View attachment 1053005
Man, that is totally awesome. You just don't know how lucky you are to have a real example, as well as a color photograph to use as an example. I've searched the web and catalogs trying to find a picture of this IJ Boy Scout Midget to use as a guide - I've never found anything but the B&W photo in the catalog.
 
Likes: hoofhearted

hoofhearted

Saint Lactose The Tolerant
Jan 20, 2010
4,107
6,820
Fairborn, Ohio
#40
Carl … thank you for those kind words.
Found a CABE Thread -- Iver Johnson Boy Scout bikes --
right here on the CABE … don't know how to cut and
glue .. but you can use the CABE SEARCH feature and
possibly get some usable info.


Years and years ago .. one of my painting instructors
shared the concept of the ''visual vocabulary''. Nothing
more than magazine snippets of features of peeps .. places ..
and objects that one hoped to learn to paint.


Also taught was the concept of ''seeing'' vs ''looking''.

The Fine Arts Department at Wright State University in the
mid-60's taught ''painting'' … but it was really ''photo-realism''.


Your mention of a ''color photograph'' … and me ''being lucky
to have it'' -- is the result of me creating my own luck.


I still use my visual vocabulary .. but these days it's in my laptop.

….. patric
 

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