# 1973 Carlton Badged Raleigh RRA, first for me?



## Nuts and Bolts (Apr 24, 2022)

A typical Raleigh RRA frame, badged and decaled Carlton? The mystery for my is I've never seen this frame on a Carlton Bike even though they made the frames. I just found a reference to the RRA frame in one of Carlton/Raleigh catalogs, new to me, they called the frame Carlton Time Trial Flyer.

Cinelli stem and drops, Dura Ace Shimano, Nisi Toro rims, Universal Super 68 brakes, Campagnolo Vertical Dropouts, D.I.D. Chain, ISCA Iscaselle Tornado Saddle, Regina Extra 5 speed Freewheel, Carlton Cycles Head Badge, 531 DB Reynolds Tubing, CC BB cutout, Did-Compe Hoods, Christophe cages.






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						1974 Raligh and Carlton Racing Bicycle Frames
					

Catalogue of the 1974 Raleigh and Carlton racing bicycle frames, including the famous Mk IV Professional




					classiclightweights.net


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## Nuts and Bolts (Apr 24, 2022)

Couldn't fit 2 more images


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## juvela (Apr 24, 2022)

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thanks very much for posting

this is the first Carlton badged one of these have heard tell of

owned two of the Raleigh version so am familiar with those

kitting is all over the map so at least some of the fittings are replacements

one would never encounter Super Olimpic pedals with a partial DuraAce road ensemble on a factory assembled machine; then there are the Gipiemme hubs and NISI rims...

the only fitting present which is also on the Raleigh edition is the TDC Alatet headset

perchance the Carlton edition was available for purchase as a frameset whilst the Raleigh one could only be purchased as a complete machine

puzzling - shall look forward to reading the observations of our Raleigh/Carlton experts...

thank you again

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## bulldog1935 (Apr 25, 2022)

Raleigh always used a mix of components on mid-grade bikes, even Zeus cranks on early 70s Gran Sport and Competition.
I'm sure it had a lot to do with what deals they could source buying wholesale. (or as @juvela  noted, purchased as a bare frame)
The black-panel 2nd-style Crane RD dates c. 1977 (per Disraeli gears).
The whole groupset thing wasn't in vogue until the 80s.

The 5-digit serial number doesn't fit SBDU/Ikeston, and I'd guess it's a separate sequential numbering just for Carlton badges.


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## Nuts and Bolts (Apr 25, 2022)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> thanks very much for posting
> 
> ...



I do not know enough about the group set on this bike at this time, I think of two possibilities someone had a Carlton frame and threw a bunch of components on it that were laying around e.g. Olimpic pedals, saddle and maybe the Dura-Ace group. I bought the bike b/c of the frame and badging not the components. What could be original to bike in my limited view is the headset, seat tube, and badging.  I know that this was offered by Raleigh with certain components. These frame were very limited in production not many were made. Thanks for your info!


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## Nuts and Bolts (Apr 25, 2022)

bulldog1935 said:


> Raleigh always used a mix of components on mid-grade bikes, even Zeus cranks on early 70s Gran Sport and Competition.
> I'm sure it had a lot to do with what deals they could source buying wholesale. (or as @juvela  noted, purchased as a bare frame)
> The black-panel 2nd-style Crane RD dates c. 1977 (per Disraeli gears).
> The whole groupset thing wasn't in vogue until the 80s.
> ...



I never knew the Raleigh Record Ace was a mid-level grade bike I thought it was a precursor to the SBDU frames very close geometry, hand built, and tight tolerances with the vertical dropouts.


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 25, 2022)

I was replying to @juvela regarding the pedals and groupsets.  
fwiw, sarcasm doesn't work on the internet, or in life.  
SBDU Ikeston s/n were all sequential, so that may be the 11,000 series from there.
Pretty much all Raleigh racing and sport touring bikes used Carlton geometry after about 1965, varying in fork trail.
Your bike does look like a steeper head angle than most.


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## Nuts and Bolts (Apr 25, 2022)

bulldog1935 said:


> SBDU Ikeston s/n were all sequential, so that may be the 11,000 series from there.
> Pretty much all Raleigh racing and sport touring bikes used Carlton geometry after about 1965, varying in fork trail.
> Your bike does look like a steeper head angle than most.



I'm pretty sure most s/n were stamped at Carltons factory, not sure how the sequence worked for these frames i.e. did they start with a 3 digit number or any rhyme or reason. I've read that these were very limited frames some say 500 were made some say 1000 were made that's anyone's quess at this time.


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## juvela (Apr 25, 2022)

Nuts and Bolts said:


> I never knew the Raleigh Record Ace was a mid-level grade bike I thought it was a precursor to the SBDU frames very close geometry, hand built, and tight tolerances with the vertical dropouts.




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purchased me first example new from the local agent in march of 1974

spoke with owner of shop who had long experience in the trade and had been a Raleigh stockist for several decades

he told me the concept of the model was that Raleigh designed the machine as an experiment to see if they could create a top line road model which did not employ any Campag fittings

in the conditions of the boom it was a challenge for cycle producers to get enough fittings when they needed them

RI/TI was concerned the day could come when they could not get needed materials from Tullio so this model was created as an experiment

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