# Pair of old, ugly, beat up Pre-War Schwinns



## PatTheSlat (Dec 10, 2011)

I picked up a pair of pre-wars yesterday and would like some help identifying them.  I know they're nothing special, but I'd still like to know what they actually are.

The first one I believe to be a '37.  Full album of pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/8A41K It's got the hockey stick style clamp on chain guard, and the serial number is in a smaller, close-together font (I think it's K253__, not that it really matters).  The crank is stamped "A2" and "K".  The bike has been badly repainted multiple times.  The frame has a single crossbar between the downtube and top tube.  The dropouts are rearward facing, without any tensioner screws.  The rear coaster brake hub is a New Departure Model D. The front hub is labeled Schwinn. The headbadge is unfortunately missing. My questions on this one are, is that the original crank?  I would have thought it'd be a dog-leg style, but it's not. Are those the original grips? They are labeled "Hex-Grip Model A". They're in pretty decent shape, and if they're original I'd imagine they'd be worth a fair amount. Also, the bad re-painting is chipping away, and the original paintjob looks to be in alright condition below it all.  Is there any decent way to strip off the repainting to get the original finish back?  I was thinking of trying to blast it off by pressure washing it.

The second one I really have no idea on, other than I think it's newer because of the chain guard and the font of the serial number.  Album here: http://imgur.com/a/JVP3Q (Pictures taken after I already removed the crank).  This one has two cross-bars between the main tubes of the frame, and does have tensioner screws on the rear facing dropouts.  It's also been repainted, though not quite as badly as the first one.  Crank is stamped with either H or II or 11, then 502.  The rear hub is JC Higggins, and doesn't work (sprocket just freewheels when you try to pedal forward, though the coaster brake does work. On this one I'd mainly just like to know the year, and whether or not the rear hub is easily repairable.

Any help or info on these would be much appreciated.


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## cyclebuster (Dec 10, 2011)

neither one is a schwinn. the first one is a Westfeild/Columbia derivative and i lost interest in the second one. possibly a Cleveland welding clone.


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## militarymonark (Dec 10, 2011)

the second one is a prewar schwinn, post the serial number which should be on the bottom of the crank housing and we might be able to determine a year Im thinking early 40's or check on the crank it might give you a year if its original


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## militarymonark (Dec 10, 2011)

nevermind saw the serial H30443 and crank might not be original it would have said AS & CO with a two digit year such as 39 or 40


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## PatTheSlat (Dec 11, 2011)

Is there anything specific that tells you the first one is non-schwinn?  I'm looking at this one on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-193...es-Pullman-antique-bicycle-bike-/350507001860 and seeing the exact same chain guard, same rear hub, same fender braces, and the same paint design (you can see the outline of the original underneath the repaint). Plus the front hub says Schwinn on it, and the rim it's attached to matches the rear, although I suppose it's possible the wheels were switched between the two bikes at some point.


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## elginkid (Dec 11, 2011)

The frame geometry is incorrect for a Schwinn.  The headtube is shorter, which changes the distance between the downtubes (on a Schwinn they are wider close to the head tube, narrower close to the seat tube)  The brace between the tubes is more parallel to the ground on your Westfield, and more perpendicular to the downtube on a Schwinn.  Fenders are peaked (Not a Schwinn thing*), Chainwheel is a classic Columbia style, guard is period aftermarket.  

The second bike might be a 1941 Schwinn.  They redesigned the frame just before the war, and got rid of the hanging tank, but they redesigned it again for the 1946 model year.  If so, they guard is definitely not original.  I can't tell if the fenders are original or not.  I'm not well versed on the nuances (and there seem to be a lot) of the fenders.



Wes



*the one exception is the incredibly rare aluminum Gothic peaked Schwinn fenders, which these are not


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## PatTheSlat (Dec 11, 2011)

elginkid said:


> The frame geometry is incorrect for a Schwinn.  The headtube is shorter, which changes the distance between the downtubes (on a Schwinn they are wider close to the head tube, narrower close to the seat tube)  The brace between the tubes is more parallel to the ground on your Westfield, and more perpendicular to the downtube on a Schwinn.  Fenders are peaked (Not a Schwinn thing*), Chainwheel is a classic Columbia style, guard is period aftermarket.




Got it, I do see all of that now that you've pointed it out.  Looked up some old Columbia serial numbers, and this one looks like it's a 1946 Columbia.  A little disappointing, but oh well, can't win them all.  Thanks for your help.

Anyone have any tips for stripping off the bad re-paint?  Is it even possible?


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## PatTheSlat (Dec 11, 2011)

I just noticed on this page: http://www.angelfire.com/rant/allday101/IDFACTS.html at the very bottom, it says that the part number for a ladies' prewar crank is 502, and mine (from the Schwinn) is indeed stamped 502, so I'm thinking that is the original crank, and it's just from before they started date-stamping them or from a period where they randomly didn't for some reason.  On that same page, it says serials starting with letters A through I ran from late 38 through 1942, so I most likely do have a 41 here.  

One thing that's confusing me a bit is that there's nowhere on my fork for trusses to mount, and every model bike in the Schwinn catalogs from that time period has trusses.  Did they make some models without the trusses and just not include these in the catalogs?


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## elginkid (Dec 12, 2011)

They definitely made models without trusses.  For example, look at the Popular Equipped Model from 1941, the D37XE-1: 

http://www.trfindley.com/flschwinn_1941_1950/1941_cc_007.html 

It has the blade forks with no truss rods.  I'm sure by deleting part of the name, and ordering say, a D37, you might get a plain model that just had fenders, and a chainguard.  Usually the numbers and letters help distinguish the equipment on the bike.

Wes


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## jwm (Dec 12, 2011)

Just my .02 worth.:
Neither bike is really worth period restoration, but either bike would make a great cruiser. A little grease, some new tires, seats, or what have you, a rattlecan paintjob- Loads of fun to do, and the bikes will be fun to take out for a 'round the neighborhood tour.

JWM


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## ski (Dec 12, 2011)

chainguard on the second bike looks like the one on my manton and smith


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## PatTheSlat (Dec 12, 2011)

jwm said:


> Just my .02 worth.:
> Neither bike is really worth period restoration, but either bike would make a great cruiser. A little grease, some new tires, seats, or what have you, a rattlecan paintjob- Loads of fun to do, and the bikes will be fun to take out for a 'round the neighborhood tour.
> 
> JWM




Yeah, this is precisely my plan for them right now.  I already have a '63 Schwinn American Deluxe for my slow neighborhood cruising and a '65 Racer I use for most of my other riding, so I'll probably get these ones looking and riding nice and throw them on craigslist.  I won't make any money off of them but it'll be fun to do.


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