# Does anybody have one?



## rustyspoke66 (Oct 17, 2010)

Just wondering if anybody has one of these they would like to share some photos of?


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## OldRider (Oct 17, 2010)

Except for the rear dropstand and mine being all steel it looks very similar to my  late 30s Ranger. Here in Canada Sears main competitor was Hudson Bay Stores, thats where mine was purchased for 29.95.


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## rustyspoke66 (Oct 17, 2010)

Nice, have any pics? I thought this one was special because of the Alcoa aluminum frame, handlebars, seat post and mud guards! Everybody has seen a Silver King but I don't think I've seen one of these. The above add is from 1935 catalog.


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## MartyW (Oct 17, 2010)

I like the, *On those Cross Country Trips you can pedal the Gull for hours with far less effort than a heavy all steel frame bike.*


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## rustyspoke66 (Oct 17, 2010)

I want one!


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## OldRider (Oct 17, 2010)

Here is a few pics I took of the Ranger yesterday, in my eye the truss rods look identical to the ones in your ad. Your ad shows a long spring hairpin saddle, mine is a Wright three springer seat, small differences


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## Andrew Gorman (Oct 17, 2010)

I've only seen these in ads.  Maybe they were bicycle vaporware, or just a really bad idea with a very short production life?


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## rustyspoke66 (Oct 17, 2010)

I was also thinking they ended up being recycled by the time the war came around? Might be the rarest of the rare?


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## Andrew Gorman (Oct 17, 2010)

I've heard the Boy Scout scrap drive/WWII recycling drive schtick about the lack of ca.1900 bicycles, but now they are coming out of the woodwork all over.  No matter what collectors used to say, it's obvious that a a bunch of teenage brownshirts did NOT round up every collectible automobile, bicycle and interesting piece of junk and turn them in for scrap.  That story was accepted wisdom 20+ years ago.   If these aluminum bikes were all scrapped out, why are there so many Silver Kings still around?  If no one has seen one in the flesh they are not common- either the factory never made many, maybe there was a lawsuit about the Silver King patents, or maybe they all broke in half on the way home from the Sears store? I'm not a fan of modern aluminum bikes, but I'd still like to see one of these.


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## rustyspoke66 (Oct 17, 2010)

This could be some kind of myth.


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## catfish (Oct 17, 2010)

I have only seen one in person. It's real. Just rare.


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## RMS37 (Oct 17, 2010)

The Elgin Gull was developed by Alcoa and produced by Westfield for Sears. Leon Dixon owns one and shared some information with me that he gained in conversation with individuals that worked for Westfield and were involved with the project. An article and pictures were also published in Volume 1; Issue 2 of the Classic Bicycle News. If you don’t have a copy you might inquire if back issues are available.

I believe a second bike equipped with a slightly earlier Sears bicycle motor (Bad Idea2 ) is on display at the New Bremen museum. Outside of those two there are only one or two others known to exist in the Hobby.

It is likely there are more to be found as the bike was offered in both the Summer 1935 and Fall/Winter 35/36 catalogs which means they were marketed for a minimum of six months before being dropped. The bike was produced in fair numbers and initial testing was favorable but customer feedback proved the model was not up to the real world abuse children’s bicycles were subject to. 

Ultimately production was high enough to expect more Gulls would be with us today so I imagine the low survival rate is due to fragility more than any one other factor and it is likely that broken bikes were returned for credit or replacement with more conventional steel framed models. If scrap drives for Aluminum were the sole culprit, Silver Kings would not be so plentiful today.


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## RMS37 (Oct 17, 2010)

While I was writing several posts came in, I’ll add that I also think the notion that WW2 scrap drives decimated the existing bicycle population are way overblown. In reality the veteran machines from the 1980’s and 90’s were in many cases still in the hands of their original owners at that time. Many of those people had spent a large sum of money to purchase their wheel originally and were likely not of a mind to scrap it. Still those early machines that had been abandoned may have been sent off in larger numbers than many of the then current balloon bikes which were valued for the transportation service they provided at a time when replacing them had become no easy matter.


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## rustyspoke66 (Oct 17, 2010)

Thanks for the in-depth info, I'm still hoping to see one some day. It seems that most everything shows up eventually, less than 20 years ago I thought the Schwinn Phantom was rare. Hell back in 88 I got myself a Black Phantom tattoo then in the 90's they came out with the repops. Anyway I have discovered many more exotic  bikes exist than I ever thought could. I still can not come up with a favorite but I sure do like most every thing pre 1945. I've looked at this Sears Gull before but really had not relized the rarity. Sounds like one of those great ideas that just didn't work out. Thanks, JT


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## chitown (Oct 17, 2010)

RMS37 said:


> ... I imagine the low survival rate is due to fragility more than any one other factor and it is likely that broken bikes were returned for credit or replacement with more conventional steel framed models. If scrap drives for Aluminum were the sole culprit, Silver Kings would not be so plentiful today.




Right on the money Phil, but of course you knew that.

Leon describes on his website (page showing the Oakland show) the amount of returns of broken frames amounted to "a kind of factory recall, 1930s style" exchanging them for steel frames.

So Andrew Gorman, good call on them breaking in half on the way home from sears. If you read the Silver King patent, ( http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=ysp4AAAAEBAJ&dq=1998994 ) the Aluminum couldn't be welded as that would ruin the heat treating that made early aluminum stronger (duraluminum). Aluminum was high tech stuff and also not as versitile as modern aluminums. Elgins engineers got it wrong. Monark  nailed it understanding the metal better I suppose. Sounds like Elgin tried to mushroom wedge the joints using cold forging techinques (brute strength to wedge and pin) where Monark was boring the lugs smaller than the tubes, placing tubes in dry ice thus shrinking it and placing the lugs in hot oil (not more than 300 degrees according to Mr Lewis) and expeditiously assembling, making a super strong connection without welding. The Silver King ad's said 10,000 lbs of pressure couldn't pull the joints loose.


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## prewarbikes4sale (Oct 18, 2010)

I Have one! I will try to post pics prior to my trip to Memory Lane!


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## prewarbikes4sale (Oct 18, 2010)

*Elgin "Silver Gull"*

As far as I know only 3 exist. Leon's The Bicycle Museum of America (Many many wrong parts) and this one.


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## rustyspoke66 (Oct 18, 2010)

Very cool, thanks for posting pics. Even though these bikes failed as a solid machine I think it's a great looking bike! Maybe #4 will show up on Craigslist or Ebay soon?


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## sm2501 (Oct 18, 2010)

prewarbikes4sale said:


> As far as I know only 3 exist. Leon's The Bicycle Museum of America (Many many wrong parts) and this one.




I was about to ask where "this one" was...then I woke up! Killer bike!


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## chitown (Oct 18, 2010)

WOW, thanks for the pics. Gotta love this forum. Someone asks if there is one of these bikes out there and a couple days later some pics pop up. Wish I could make it to the Memory Lane show to see it up close.


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## old hotrod (Oct 18, 2010)

Is it possible to get a close up of the stem? Thanks for posting the pictures...


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## OldRider (Oct 18, 2010)

This is the Canadian version of the holy grail of bikes. The CCM Flyte had the misfortune to be introduced in the height of the depression, an expensive bike when nobody had money, I think produced only 2 or 3 years. I have never seen one, but one day I'll enter a broken down forgotten old barn..........


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## STUPIDILLO (Oct 23, 2010)

*Does any body have one*

Just tried to order one from my local Sears store. They told me they were out.


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## Zephyr (Oct 23, 2010)

Very nice bike! It does have style.


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## JOEL (Oct 24, 2010)

Here's the motorized Gull on display at the New Bremen museum.


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## rustyspoke66 (Oct 24, 2010)

That is cool! Looks like most of the parts like the exhaust, fuel tank, covers and brackets are made of aluminum? Does anybody have one of those h-bar stems for sale?


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## Tidewater (Oct 24, 2010)

Joel, here is another pic of the same bike. My bride and I were there on July 5. Tough building to get good pics in with so much packed in there. I hope you had ample opportunity to ride the towpath trail while you were there...great ride.


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