# 1940-41? Schwinn Packard



## bloo (Aug 1, 2020)

Hi Guys, I'm new here though I have been reading this board once and a while for a few years. There are a lot of great projects going in here. I'm glad to be here.

I have just pulled my old Schwinn out of storage, and am hoping you guys can tell me when it was built and what model it is... or was.






This was my bike when I was growing up. I had an unidentified 24" ballooner before the Schwinn, and it hooked me on balloon tired bikes. They were had to come by. When I got the Schwinn in the 70s, it was wrecked and incomplete. I rebuilt it three times, and put gobs of miles on it. The first two times I had it cream colored with red trim, and the last time I put it back to the original red with white trim. Back in the day, after poring through all the old catalogs down at the Schwinn shop where it was probably sold new, I was convinced it was a 1939 model. I doubt that now. The serial number is F71444.





Edit: More pictures...


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## Adamtinkerer (Aug 1, 2020)

Welcome to the forum! Sweet ride! The Hi-Flange front hub are big pluses! You ought to swap out that Murray chain ring for a classic clover leaf Schwinn ring, and get another ww tire on there!  Also, the chain guard is a Wald universal. I'm not an expert on these, but I'm sure some of them here can weigh in on the year. Very cool that you've kept it all those years! Personally, I still have my '57 Schwinn Corvette, that I bought at a garage sale, 40 years ago this summer!


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## GTs58 (Aug 1, 2020)

No way telling what the actual model was as this point. There were a few models that used the straight bar frames from the stripped down model to the Auto-Cycle Deluxe. 1940 frame with a post war springer? Are you going to get back on the road?


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## bloo (Aug 1, 2020)

Thank you! I didn't know the chainring was Murray. I was pretty sure it wasn't Schwinn. It reminds me of JCHiggins. The chainguard is Western Flyer. It used to be chrome. The last (3rd) time I re-did the bike I painted it because I believe the Schwinn ones were painted, and I also wanted to plug all the extra holes because it was a universal fit thing.

The bike, as i mentioned, was incomplete and wrecked. Even though I was actively looking for a 26 inch ballooner the first time I saw it I didn't take it seriously.

The parts you see that were with it when i found it are the frame, spring fork (except the cross bolt), all the steering bearings and hardware, the stem, the crank, bearings, and "Murray" chainring, the back fender and probably the stays, and both wheels, with Lobdell rims (except the front axle).

The parts you see that definitely were not with it are the handlebars and grips, the front fender and stays, the tires, the chainguard, the saddle (and probably the post). 

I doubt the pedals were with it.

One thing that seems odd to me: the spokes in the rear wheel. They are not double butted like the front wheel. Did Schwinn ever do that? Coaster brake is New Departure. I expected to see an oil cup on it and there isn't one. Does that make it newer?


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## bloo (Aug 1, 2020)

GTs58 said:


> No way telling what the actual model was as this point. There were a few models that used the straight bar frames from the stripped down model to the Auto-Cycle Deluxe. 1940 frame with a post war springer? Are you going to get back on the road?




That was the plan. I was about to ask if it were possible for it to have been built as the stripped down model and still have a spring fork. I never suspected the springer of being postwar. What is it about the springer that makes it postwar?


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## bloo (Aug 1, 2020)

Adamtinkerer said:


> and get another ww tire on there!




I was just looking at that, but earlier today I have already ordered blackwalls. It doesn't look as good up close as it does in that picture, but I gotta admit it looks good. I probably should have got whitewalls.

 I didn't put that whitewall on there, and I don't know who did. The whole time I was riding it, it had the same Western Flyer blackwalls on it that i got for the original rebuild. They were a period looking tread pattern, but were disappointing because they were a bit undersize. One of them is still on the back.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 1, 2020)

your bike has a drum brake up front with all the guts missing.


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## John G04 (Aug 1, 2020)

Nice start! Those lobdells look like they’d clean up pretty decent, and be a expensive set of wheels if you buy a porkchop for it along with the shoes. This would probably be the correct chainring for your bike and if its a 41 you could look for a deluxe guard or a relatively easy to find feather guard.


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## WES PINCHOT (Aug 1, 2020)

BEING THE LOCKING FORK GUY, I AM FAMILIAR WITH THE FORKS. 
THE FORK IS A 1938-40 LOCKING SPRING FORK.  THE LOBDELL RIMS WERE USED BY
SCHWINN ON DELUXE MODELS IN 1941.  MAYBE SOONER?
AND OF COURSE THE CYCLELOCK NEEDS A KEY AND OR LOCK REPAIR.


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## bloo (Aug 1, 2020)

49autocycledeluxe said:
			
		

> your bike has a drum brake up front with all the guts missing.




Yes, It probably isn't usable, but maybe there's a chance. it was bent. For the first few years I had the bike, the drum side wobbled maybe 3/8" or more. During the 2nd or third rebuild, I took all the spokes out and straightened the hub in a press. It may be true enough to use now, or might need to be ground or something. I never found a porkchop for it or even knew that was what it was called back then. The original axle was bent. I straightened it, but it was also stripped. I got away with running a nylock for about a year but then it wouldnt hold anymore. It has some probably metric axle for some european bike in there now. Probably loose balls too but I cant remember. Too long since it was apart. The axle is slightly bigger.

I understand there at least 2 versions of that brake prewar and I don't even know about postwar. Can you tell what I have?


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## bloo (Aug 1, 2020)

John G04 said:


> Nice start! Those lobdells look like they’d clean up pretty decent, and be a expensive set of wheels if you buy a porkchop for it along with the shoes. This would probably be the correct chainring for your bike and if its a 41 you could look for a deluxe guard or a relatively easy to find feather guard.




Someone said it's 40 because of the serial number, but wouldn't it have to be really late 40 because of the Lobdells? I may be shopping for at least one at some point. I know one of them is clobbered and I can't remember about the other one. It is usable, but has insane tension on some of the spokes, and hardly any on others, at least thats what I remember. I had an early mountain bike at one point. The frame broke, I kept the rims because they look a lot like Lobdells, and I figured the Lobdells might be beyond help. No internet then. I need to decide how deep I am going to dig in, but would like to collect whats missing either way... at least if it turns out that most of the parts I have are the same year.

I have another similar bike all in pieces, or at least i did. It may be a year or 2 older. When I drug the bike this thread is about home, I couldn't find the frame. I hope it is still around. Sometime soon I will post a thread about that one.


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## bloo (Aug 1, 2020)

WES PINCHOT said:


> BEING THE LOCKING FORK GUY, I AM FAMILIAR WITH THE FORKS.
> THE FORK IS A 1938-40 LOCKING SPRING FORK. THE LOBDELL RIMS WERE USED BY
> SCHWINN ON DELUXE MODELS IN 1941. MAYBE SOONER?
> AND OF COURSE THE CYCLELOCK NEEDS A KEY AND OR LOCK REPAIR.




Thank you! I found one of your postings the other day. I will be contacting you sometime soon about the cyclelock. I have 2 of them, the other is in a truss fork for a Schwinn maybe one or 2 years older.


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## robert bell (Aug 6, 2020)

Front brake will say schwinn and pat pending stamped on hub for 40-41


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## bloo (Aug 6, 2020)

robert bell said:


> Front brake will say schwinn and pat pending stamped on hub for 40-41




Just checked, it does.


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## bloo (Aug 11, 2020)

Looks like the crank is a 41.


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## bloo (Aug 20, 2020)

Well... It looks like I am lacing a wheel.

I built a dishing stick the other day and checked to see if the rims were centered. The front one was pretty good. The back on the other hand was off by a lot. It needs to move about 8mm to the drive side. Looking closer I noticed some err... anomalies. On the drive side the spoke heads all point the same way. Looking even closer, it is laced cross 3 on the drive side, and cross 4 on the brake arm side. Spokes are interlaced. They are not double butted.

What the %^&* ????





How did this look in 1941? Were they double butted spokes? How many flats on the nipples? Four here, but only 2 on the front wheel. Would the spokes have been galavanized? Cad? Black?

Hub is a New Departure, but has no engraving on the housing and no oil cap. It is silver in color. The arm is the big one and is stamped "New Departure Brake" with the 2 lines. It is black. The dust cover and sprocket retention nut are black. Sprocket has 19 teeth. I'm guessing none of that is original. Comments?

Other than a New Departure Model D, what else could it have had? Morrow? Schwinn expander brake and freewheel? Anything else?


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## bloo (Dec 23, 2020)

It's about time for an update on this. I bought keys for the cyclelock from Wes, and after soaking in oil for a while, the lock cylinder works fine. It does not lock. I never had a key for this, and didn't really understand how it was supposed to work. You can't normally take the key out with it unlocked, but I was riding it like that for years. As it turns out the sliding bolt is broken, and most of it is missing.





The steer tube was bent. Although allegedly straightened years ago, it wasn't even close. I straightened it by shrinking with a torch, and then checking in a lathe. After so many attempts I lost count, it finally ran true in the lathe. The cones in the headset were also broken, and after getting a whole pile of them on ebay, all of which turned out to be wrong, some helpful CABErs came through with parts that fit. After assembling it, I found out that the steer tube was still not quite perfectly straight. Two more shrinkings and it ran perfectly true. The bump at the bottom of the steer tube was undersize and would not hold the fork race solid. Schwinn apparently made the bump with brass, and I could have duplicated it but didn't want to risk warping the steer tube, so I made a shim.





By the time I got the steer tube straight, I had burned up the visible part of the paint. I had originally planned to re-restore the whole bike, but the bike has just been apart too long. I decided to postpone paint, and getting the cyclelock fixed, and just put it back together. A rattle can fixed the burned paint for now.





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## bloo (Dec 23, 2020)

And it is finally mostly back together. I took it for a ride today.





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## GTs58 (Dec 23, 2020)

I'm curious if your crank is an AS & Co piece.


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## bloo (Dec 23, 2020)

Yes, it is. I just looked for a picture and I was surprised to find I don't have one of the other side, and now the crank is back in the bike. However, back in mid November when BWbiker asked in another thread about the markings on 1939 Schwinn cranks, I posted pics of my 39 crank and wrote the following:

"Here's my 39 (40?) Excelsior's crank. No part number (but it is a 7" dogleg crank, so 501). The flat boss on the opposite side is blank, but on my 41 Packard (another 501 crank that is not marked 501), it says AS&CO there."

The two cranks were laying beside each other on my dresser at the time.


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