# It is easy to get financially upside down on a collectible bicycle



## Jim Barnard (Nov 30, 2018)

So, it starts out when I scan the Craigs Listings in an area where work will take me in the coming week. In this case I was working near the Hudson River in NY. So I tried to find a good deal, or a bike that is on my hit list. I picked a few possibilities and emailed them all that I may be calling during the day if work allows. I try not to get involved with the crazies. I avoid the ads that are angry, overpriced or intellectually casual. I remind myself that this is fun and I do not feed myself with profits from my hobby.

I have met a few friends through CL and look forward to the adventure.

The only guy available at 11am on a Monday was selling an old Schwinn "Ballooner" for $500. The ads pictures were terrible. The description was confusing. It looked like it was mostly untouched and that is how I like to get them.

He was in a hurry and I cut to the chase by a quick look and an offer of $300. He counters with $350 and a story of buying it for $500 and putting $100's into it with new wheels, tubes, WW tires and bars. He will throw in the original wheel set!







She looked dusty there in the back seat of my Jeep Renegade (yep, it is a Fiat). I had a sure fire plan to make her shine! ANOTHER diamond in the rough!





Huh. That chrome may not come completely back... and , whoo boy, the old rims are trashed... and they look like middle weight wheels...





No problem! I have some fatty west wind WW tires for the S7 and I have a spare set of wheels also... and there is a red(ish) rack! Let's do this! I am still viable with... um... $350 initial investment ...and $80 and $50 and $120. Not a worry. When this is shiny it will fetch more that the $600.00. For sure.





Well I had better look in the 57 catalog and see what light the Deluxe Hornet had... oh wow... yeah that one is pretty expensive. Not a concern! I have one in the drawer... just a moment to get the $145 price written in magic marker off the chrome with #0000 steel wool. There.

These springer parts are not cleaning up at all... I will just take the spring, struts, yoke and bumper bolt off my spare and Bang! that looks better. So... $600 + $145 + $80ish... $825.00 Hmm.





Well the paint did not come back as far as I had hoped... but patina is cool. I had better distract from the paint with some "almost" correct pedals and a better crank and chain wheel... oh right, two reflectors...and a better seat. That should do it! Add another $90 or so and... $915.00 yew.





There! I can't wait to ... JFC! There is no chain guard! How the Pope's balls did I miss that? I don't have one of those in my bins!

Note: I do not really care if my bikes are unwise investments. I do this because I love the challenge, working with my hands and bringing inanimate objects to life. I am sure you guy have MUCH worse horror stories about money spent and disillusionment in the bike of your dreams.

Feel free to share your story here.

Jim





ps. anyone got this guard in these colors?


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## HARPO (Nov 30, 2018)

I feel for you. With some paint and chrome you get lucky, and some you don't, even on Schwinn's.  I paid $325 for this one a couple of weeks ago. So far it's only labor..._lots of it_...to get this one to this point.


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## mazdaflyer (Nov 30, 2018)

Been there and done that way too many times. Better than playing golf though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## vincev (Nov 30, 2018)

It happens.I try to avoid projects.I found it is cheaper to buy a nice complete bike many times.


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## rusty_apache (Nov 30, 2018)

I’m with you on that one. It’s better to just pay more for something nicer to begin with.

That is why I rarely sell any project I have put time, effort and cash into. Someone else can enjoy it when I’m having my dirt nap. We are just temporary caretakers of history.

I made a killing on a 52 split window Beetle because I bought it right and never got around to rebuilding it. The buyer still got a screaming deal on it because I knew he would give it a proper restoration. That and he relentlessly yet respectfully pestered me about it for many years!


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## GTs58 (Nov 30, 2018)

About 7-8 years ago I had the hair brain idea of getting/making a copy of my childhood bike that gave me plenty of cool memories. The hunt began and after a few weeks one popped up on eBay. It had nice paint but it had been drastically modified, more so than I saw in the listing photos. It was shipped from Black Mountain, NC after I won the bidding, and found out later I was bidding against another SBF member that was looking for one of these. Lost big money from the git go. It took a little over three weeks before it finally showed up at my doorstep after pulling my hair out dealing with the seller and shipping details. Oh heavens, what the hell did I get myself into. While I was cleaning up the paint I started looking for the parts to put it back to factory. I'm in over my head and this copy of my old bike cost me more than 3 maybe 4 times the resale value. But I love it!

*What was added to bring it back.*
Complete wheel sets including correct freewheel.
Rear Derailleur
Sprint saddle..........Lucked out finding this nice one!
Bars, stem and tape
All new cables
Brake Pads
Tires
Reflector and bracket
Rear alloy carrier and reflector.


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## OldSkipTooth (Nov 30, 2018)

Looks great Jim!
This bike racket is for us quirky, somewhat ADHD, detail oriented, obsessive compulsive, creative and lastly, artistic and loving people that need to rescue something from the bottom of the junk pile. Dare I say we rock?


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## Pantmaker (Nov 30, 2018)

Jim Barnard said:


> So, it starts out when I scan the Craigs Listings in an area where work will take me in the coming week. In this case I was working near the Hudson River in NY. So I tried to find a good deal, or a bike that is on my hit list. I picked a few possibilities and emailed them all that I may be calling during the day if work allows. I try not to get involved with the crazies. I avoid the ads that are angry, overpriced or intellectually casual. I remind myself that this is fun and I do not feed myself with profits from my hobby.
> 
> I have met a few friends through CL and look forward to the adventure.
> 
> ...


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## locomotion (Dec 1, 2018)

Jim Barnard said:


> So, it starts out when I scan the Craigs Listings in an area where work will take me in the coming week. In this case I was working near the Hudson River in NY. So I tried to find a good deal, or a bike that is on my hit list. I picked a few possibilities and emailed them all that I may be calling during the day if work allows. I try not to get involved with the crazies. I avoid the ads that are angry, overpriced or intellectually casual. I remind myself that this is fun and I do not feed myself with profits from my hobby.
> 
> I have met a few friends through CL and look forward to the adventure.
> 
> ...





love reading your write-ups Jim
That Bug in the background is beautiful .... WOW, what year is it?
and the $915 spent is not so bad as long as you had fun doing it.
at least you made the road trip worth while in your Fiat  , and didn't pay anything on shipping fees.
if you had the parts at home that could find a way back unto a bicycle ..... then that's even better


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## Sven (Dec 1, 2018)

That goes for any project, whether its restoring or customizing Tonka trucks, Harley Davidsons, Hot Rods or a bicycle. The way I look at it is if it doesn't become a financially upside down project..then its a failure.
Its just money , anyway.


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## Freqman1 (Dec 1, 2018)

Its a hobby--spend it and have fun! V/r Shawn


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## HARPO (Dec 1, 2018)

GTs58 said:


> About 7-8 years ago I had the hair brain idea of getting/making a copy of my childhood bike that gave me plenty of cool memories. The hunt began and after a few weeks one popped up on eBay. It had nice paint but it had been drastically modified, more so than I saw in the listing photos. It was shipped from Black Mountain, NC after I won the bidding, and found out later I was bidding against another SBF member that was looking for one of these. Lost big money from the git go. It took a little over three weeks before it finally showed up at my doorstep after pulling my hair out dealing with the seller and shipping details. Oh heavens, what the hell did I get myself into. While I was cleaning up the paint I started looking for the parts to put it back to factory. I'm in over my head and this copy of my old bike cost me more than 3 maybe 4 times the resale value. But I love it!
> 
> *What was added to bring it back.*
> Complete wheel sets including correct freewheel.
> ...




It looks fantastic. But the difference with yours is that it's going to be kept, not flipped, after putting all the time and $$$ into it. I keep some bikes for many years, but at some point a few manage to leave the herd to make room for others (I'm down to 33 from a high of 51). Yours will never leave and that's what made it all worthwhile!


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## 66TigerCat (Dec 1, 2018)

Always enjoy reading your stories Jim. I used to attend your muscle bike show/swap a bunch of years ago. Always had a great time and I picked up some nice stuff. Glad to see that you're still in the game.


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## Bikerider007 (Dec 1, 2018)

And that doesnt even include your labor which makes almost any bike a loss. But at least they are worth something when you are done. Bikes collecting for profit only would make it a business anyway and that's not the point IMO. Much easier ways to make money than bikes.


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## HARPO (Dec 1, 2018)

@Jim Barnard  I used WD-40...#0000 steel wool...and a FINE wire brush (_carefully!!_) on a drill to do my rear rack. And of course a chrome polish.


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## bulldog1935 (Dec 1, 2018)

the carrier in WD40 is mineral spirits if you don't need the oil.


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## Handyman (Dec 1, 2018)

It's easy to get financially upside down on ANYTHING !!  I have never looked at this hobby as a financial "upside" or "downside".  I just fool around with these bikes because I Iike them, they make me happy and that's pretty much it.  I've bought some bikes "right" and I've bought many bikes "wrong", but in both cases, I bought them because I liked them.  I'm also a realist and I know that someday the fun may wear off and they will all be on Craigslist.................................just not yet !  Pete in Fitchburg


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## wheelbender6 (Dec 1, 2018)

I have never made money flipping an old bike. I just enjoy the experience of resurrection.


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## Duchess (Dec 1, 2018)

I mostly build customs and I try to never think about what they cost. Even my stupid _Retro Rocket_ bike probably cost me over $500. The only one that might be worth more than I put into it is my Iver Johnson Special Racer. Otherwise, I know they'll never be worth more money than I can put into them (never mind the time!), but I don't do drugs or gamble, drinking gives me migraines, my other art is cheap, and there's too much traffic full of idiots to bother with cars, so I look at this as a discount hobby.


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## Jim Barnard (Dec 1, 2018)

locomotion said:


> love reading your write-ups Jim
> That Bug in the background is beautiful .... WOW, what year is it?
> and the $915 spent is not so bad as long as you had fun doing it.
> at least you made the road trip worth while in your Fiat  , and didn't pay anything on shipping fees.
> if you had the parts at home that could find a way back unto a bicycle ..... then that's even better




The Beetle is named "Olive" (of course) and she is the last year of the ovals 1957. She is the most fun to drive of any car I have had. She is light, agile and responsive to head winds and side winds. 

Side note: It took me almost a week after buying the Jeep to realize it was a Fiat. Nine gears and right side gas fill should have clued me in...


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## locomotion (Dec 1, 2018)

Jim Barnard said:


> The Beetle is named "Olive" (of course) and she is the last year of the ovals 1957. She is the most fun to drive of any car I have had. She is light, agile and responsive to head winds and side winds.
> 
> Side note: It took me almost a week after buying the Jeep to realize it was a Fiat. Nine gears and right side gas fill should have clued me in...View attachment 911877




Olive is beautiful Jim.


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## catfish (Dec 1, 2018)

The only way to make a little money in the bicycle hobby, is to start out with a lot of money. 

  Catfish


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Dec 1, 2018)

some times people forget that hobbies are for fun, not profit. you never hear a fisherman complaining that he can't get 5 bucks for the fish he just caught using $2,000 worth of gear to catch it.


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## Jim Barnard (Dec 1, 2018)

Nice, thank you. I miss all the banana bikes. That museum was a labor of love. I sold all (except for 10? or so) and built a retirement home on the Sound. Some how the plans contained a big space for a bicycle collection. I am trying to be more reasonable with the new collection. 

Look for another series of swap meets between New London and Stonington, CT in early September.

I do love this hobby...


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## WES PINCHOT (Dec 1, 2018)

THAT IS ONE SWEET OLIVE BEETLE!


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## jimbo53 (Dec 2, 2018)

MUST.NOT.BUY.ANY.MORE.BIKE.PARTS

“Ooh! Is that NOS?”


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## HARPO (Dec 2, 2018)

@Jim Barnard  I figured you might like to see this one. 1969 Lemon Peeler. My brother-in-law was the original owner. The bike is 100% from the factory, right down to the tubes.


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## Jim Barnard (Dec 2, 2018)

HARPO said:


> @Jim Barnard  I figured you might like to see this one. 1969 Lemon Peeler. My brother-in-law was the original owner. The bike is 100% from the factory, right down to the tubes.
> 
> View attachment 912330



That one takes my breath away!


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## HARPO (Dec 2, 2018)

@Jim Barnard  a few more pics for you...


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## 5782341b77vl (Dec 3, 2018)

I prefer going to auctions, where I can SEE the bike beforehand and decide if it'll be a money pit to fix up. Most of the bikes I have just needed tubes and some bike oil, but that's was it. The worst bike - bearings needing to be repacked. 

My NEWEST member of the collection (just got the electric horn working yesterday) just needs a bulb in the headlight, rear reflector, and new tubes. Still has all original paint -


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## morton (Dec 4, 2018)

In my experience, free bikes are almost guaranteed to get you upside down.  I'll clean this up and sell it and make a few bucks.....yeah right!  Looks it just needs cables and brake pads.  Then you notice the tires with great tread actually have a good bit of tire rot.  And one of the tubes has an unpatchable leak. And you thought that you had an extra saddle in your parts bin to replace the one on the bike that's ripped....surprise, you used that extra saddle on the last bike you rehabed.  And the kickstand won't support the bike properly cause someone used a replacement that didn't properly and you don't have any that will fit this bike.  And if you go so far as to clean and regrease the bearings, at least on set of cones will be shot.

You did a lot of work on the bike, spent more than you intended, and how you are in the hole with no way out except to sell it for less than you spent on it.

Lesson learned.....now free bikes, unless some type of collector item go to the Salvation Army donation center.

Revision....I should have also stated that a free bike is worth the money  if it is something that you want to keep and ride.  I purchased a brand new Breezer hybrid a few years back for about $500 and now to health problems I can no longer ride it.  It's in pefect condition with new tires and I installed better fenders and handlebars but will be lucky to get$150 for it.
I did manage to enjoy putting 3500 miles on the bike so I don't think I'm upside down on it.


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## HARPO (Dec 4, 2018)

This Fuji del Ray was Free...and my size. The original owner put it on Facebook for $25, but when I went to buy it, he wouldn't accept any payment. He said its hung in his garage for over 25 years and didn't want to throw it out. He wanted someone like me to see past the dirt and melting gum hoods to bring it back to life. And ironically, I even had the original missing decals, purchased many years ago just in case...


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## Allrounderco (Dec 4, 2018)

By nature, my hobbies need to be self-sustaining financially. I refuse to use my paycheck to fund them while I still have a mortgage. This constraint forces me to be creative, and precludes collecting. Which is fine, as I have an innate hoarding tendency I'm fighting. While I do lose money on individual deals, I'm in the black overall. Some deals I go into, are losers right off the bat: The '68 Speedster I bought this year for $50 is a good example. Once I put tires and tubes on it, I had $100 invested into it. But I ride that thing often, so I feel I'm getting my money's worth. I'll just flip some Harley parts, a cell phone or some other consumer good, and it pays for the entire thing with an hours work (I don't come into those deals as often as I'd like). I do look at the ROI on every deal, and it keeps me from adding cool accessories, or buying expensive bikes. But I do enjoy what I have, and in the end don't regret it.

I do admire all of the impressive collections I see here, and the individual rare and expensive bikes. And especially those pieced together with blood, sweat, tears, and bits of green paper. And in the future, I may upscale my own involvement. But for now, I aim to break even at worst on every deal.


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## Jim Barnard (Dec 4, 2018)

HARPO said:


> This Fuji del Ray was Free...and my size. The original owner put it on Facebook for $25, but when I went to buy it, he wouldn't accept any payment. He said its hung in his garage for over 25 years and didn't want to throw it out. He wanted someone like me to see past the dirt and melting gum hoods to bring it back to life. And ironically, I even had the original missing decals, purchased many years ago just in case...
> View attachment 913390
> 
> View attachment 913391



I HOPE you sent the guy a pic of it done,,,


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## marching_out (Dec 4, 2018)

When I started collecting about three years ago, I had a good friend offer a piece of advice. He said you should try to make money through your hobby to pay for your hobby. Using that advice, I've bought and sold around 30 bikes, acquired 13 bikes for my personal use/collection and am up about $300. That number fluctuates based on the bikes I can find and what I decide to keep...or fall in love with after cleaning them up! Granted, I have no $1000 bikes. I just collect stuff I like.


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## HARPO (Dec 4, 2018)

Jim Barnard said:


> I HOPE you sent the guy a pic of it done,,,




That I did, Jim. He was thrilled, and said it looked better than when he bought it, lol.


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## manuel rivera (Dec 6, 2018)

Jim Barnard said:


> So, it starts out when I scan the Craigs Listings in an area where work will take me in the coming week. In this case I was working near the Hudson River in NY. So I tried to find a good deal, or a bike that is on my hit list. I picked a few possibilities and emailed them all that I may be calling during the day if work allows. I try not to get involved with the crazies. I avoid the ads that are angry, overpriced or intellectually casual. I remind myself that this is fun and I do not feed myself with profits from my hobby.
> 
> I have met a few friends through CL and look forward to the adventure.
> 
> ...



Nice find Jim! I always check on Craigslist, I been lucky finding good stuff in West simsbury area or new Hartford. A lot of old barns in that area. Is nice to drive around the backwoods of CT. In fall, BTW I love the VW the color is awesome, 56,57?  I love VWs too.


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## Jim Barnard (Dec 6, 2018)

manuel rivera said:


> Nice find Jim! I always check on Craigslist, I been lucky finding good stuff in West simsbury area or new Hartford. A lot of old barns in that area. Is nice to drive around the backwoods of CT. In fall, BTW I love the VW the color is awesome, 56,57?  I love VWs too.



Manny,

She is a 57 and I think the color is a Norwegian Pine or something like that. She looks old wearing that paint. Now that  salt is on the roads she is taking a short nap....


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## phantom (Dec 6, 2018)

catfish said:


> The only way to make a little money in the bicycle hobby, is to start out with a lot of money.
> 
> Catfish



I started out in this hobby only about 15 years ago. My first project was a 59 Panther ll that I paid $300 for and flipped it to a forum member for $500. Next was a 57 Jaguar that I paid $400 for and flipped for $700. At that point I am $500 on top of the game and have never used anything other than profit to purchase maybe 75 or so bikes over the years and I am always working on house money. Therefore the hobby cost me nothing financially, with the exception of the three boxed anniversary Phantoms I bought in 96, one of each color still boxed. I guess the difference is I am not a collector. Some bikes I flip in a week or so and some I enjoy for a few months or more, but eventually they all sell.

Granted, I am usually only buying bikes in the $200 to $500 range and only those that may need cosmetics and not extensive restorations. For me it's more of a game than a hobby. I'm sure it would be different if I were keeping them.


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## Rivnut (Dec 6, 2018)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> some times people forget that hobbies are for fun, not profit. you never hear a fisherman complaining that he can't get 5 bucks for the fish he just caught using $2,000 worth of gear to catch it.



And he needs a $20,000 boat to get there.


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## vincev (Dec 6, 2018)

This is a hobby not a job.Selling parts and bikes is part of the hobby for many.Flipping bikes and parts is good for getting beer money. A person needs to get a real job and keep bikes as a hobby.NEVER going to get rich from bike shows.lol


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## phantom (Dec 6, 2018)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> some times people forget that hobbies are for fun, not profit. you never hear a fisherman complaining that he can't get 5 bucks for the fish he just caught using $2,000 worth of gear to catch it.



Fun is a pretty subjective word. I have fun in the hobby, just a different way than a collector does I suppose. I think I can have a hobby that pays for itself, and then some, and still enjoy it.  I get sort of the same thing in a few car forums because I put about 500 miles a year on one of my cars. Guys insist that I can't really enjoy it unless I am going on trips and events with them. I enjoy looking at the car in the garage or driveway just as much as anyone of them that is putting 15K mile a year on a car. To me it's like garage jewelry or a guitar hanging on a wall. I believe  I can have a hobby, make a profit at it and have fun all at the same time. I don't think I'm forgetting anything.


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