# NEED HELP TO ID 20s-30s MOTORBIKE bicycle FRAME



## benshl1994 (Apr 24, 2020)

I bought this bicycle thinking its an Iver Johnson. While doing research I found out Iver Johnson always has a 6 number serial number on the tube near the seat, but there is no such serial number on this frame. It is also not the original paint, it has been painted black and an Iver Johnson decal has been put on it, I can see some of the original blue paint. I am not sure if maybe someone tried to restore an old Iver Johnson that was very rusted up and the serial number is rusted away, or if this is a different brand that someone attempted to restore and put an Iver Johnson decal on. I am thinking the frame is maybe an Elgin or Schwinn but im not sure. From what i see serial number is J487 and then thats either an L5 or  backwards T5. Please if anyone can tell me what frame this is and what year it would really help me and be appreciated.


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## dave the wave (Apr 25, 2020)

looks like a Emblem ?


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## benshl1994 (Apr 25, 2020)

dave the wave said:


> looks like a Emblem ?



thank you for your input. Would you say around late 1920's early 1930's?


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## Archie Sturmer (Apr 25, 2020)

Double “D” drive crankset and sprocket design look Westfield; (frame and fork might not).  Emblem Angola used cranksets with odd dimensions; (challenging to repair).  The prior refurbisher may have had few options but to swap those parts.  But why swap with another oddly dimensioned crankset.


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## Mercian (Apr 25, 2020)

Hi,

To me, the chainwheel and serial number look like a Westfield built bike. 

If it is, then a J prefix number is 1931.

Although this link is to a woman's frame, it's also a 1931, you can compare that it has the same the chainwheel and serial number layout as yours.









						1931hudson ladies | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

OK guys you got me hot does anybody have info on this one I can’t find one help thank you so much for all your efforts




					thecabe.com
				




Best Regards,

Adrian


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## dave the wave (Apr 25, 2020)

hard to tell frome the space where the tires go.it could 28in. or 26in.balloon tire. i am going to say circa 1930+/- . i have never seen a fish mouth tubing on a westfield but i could be wrong. i might even be shelby?


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## Archie Sturmer (Apr 25, 2020)

Truss tube looks small; hard to see; and how small is small. 
Who used small truss tubes, Iver Johnson; Emblem Angola; Miami Cycle; any others. 
The fat “J” shape of the fork rake also looks peculiar.


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## benshl1994 (Apr 26, 2020)

The research I’ve been doing shows me that Westfield J would be 1942? I’m new to this and it seems there is sooo much to know to figure this out. I think it’s j48715 serial number. If that’s the case then what manufacture and year would that be?


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## Mercian (Apr 27, 2020)

Hi @benshl1994 

_The research I’ve been doing shows me that Westfield J would be 1942? I’m new to this and it seems there is sooo much to know to figure this out. I think it’s j48715 serial number. If that’s the case then what manufacture and year would that be?_

Good, I encourage people to do research of their own.

Yes it's J48715.

Westfield used a system composed of a letter to indicate the year, and a sequential frame number. For various reasons, they never went all the way from A-Z, and went back to A every so often. Also they didn't use I or O because they were too similar to 1 and 0.

Westfield used J in 1918, 1931 and 1945.

It's not 1945, because the J used was capitalised, like this one, and yours isn't.





Image from Krakatoa's very nice 1945 bike, currently for sale here: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1...ilian-blackout-ballooner.169930/#post-1154649

Also, Westfields between 1934 and 1945 used a separate dating system for the manufacture of the frame. In the picture above, you can see N5, which is May 1945. This picture is a good example of how the N5 was stamped first, then the frame painted (the paint is in the numbers), and then the J serial number stamped when the bike was complete after painting (the paint has cracked out of these numbers).

More details here, especially post 11.https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-frame-numbers-1933-1945.100743/

Which leaves 1931 and 1919. The same J was used in the stamping in these years, so really it's a question of looking at the available models.

This 1931 Niagara is produced by Westfield, and is very similar to your frame, with the same fork and headset, except for the chainwheel. But your chainwheel is seen on 1930's produced Westfields.









						Niagara motor bike | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

Picked this up,last week all original. As usual nothing out there about the bike.westfield?has clincher rims on it so a set of tires and I have a rider.




					thecabe.com
				




I hope that helps.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## SKPC (Apr 27, 2020)

Those rear threaded axle adjusters are not typical westfield.  One piece/solid...Hmmm..... Nor any other maker I have seen thus far. I wonder if someone has a 20's 30's bike with this kind of single piece design.


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## Archie Sturmer (Apr 27, 2020)

Great research @Mercian  - I believe that @dave the wave and I were both thinking about pre-31 Westfield motorbikes with a reinforcement band where the truss tube joins the seat tube mast.


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