# seeking tank



## breezerbikemaan (Jan 27, 2011)

Trying to get my hands on a button-horn tank for a '36 Hawthorne "Comet"
with the three louvers (gills) on each side  on the front with large horn button on left front side (not top)  (in the photo of the Burgandy/Creme Comet)
this is the early tank that has the removable "battery access panel"
on the right half tank. The panel is approx. two thirds the length of the tank,
 (about 14 in.) and about 2 in. in height  with a screw at each end,  it is the same dimensions and shape as the '37,'38, &'39  3 gill tanks (Hawthorne, Roadmaster) only they did not have the removable access panel .  The blue one in the pics is a '37-38 "Comet" 
and it will do as well, but note the button for the horn has been relocated to the top left of the tank , the '36 is located on the side front left, and is a larger button. 
I have tried all of my resources, even Memory Lane and no luck.....If any body has either of these tanks (in good or salvagable cond.) I would pay handsomely for it.  
Thanks for reading my woe.


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## Mybluevw (Jan 27, 2011)

I have 1/2 of the tank that you seek...It is the toolbox side with te door opening, but no door. Send me a PM and I will get you a pic.


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## RMS37 (Jan 27, 2011)

This gets a bit long winded so I’ll note that I don’t have the tank you are looking for but between your request for a 1936 Hawthorne Comet tank and the information and reference photos you have provided I am confused. 

The Hawthorne Comet model was first offered in the 1937 catalog and is an H.P. Snyder produced bike that does not use a tank. The first Hawthorne fitted with the battery door “Bent Tank” tank was the 1938 Zep model, from there on out the subtle variations in these tanks themselves and the models that used them are myriad.

*Reference Photos*

I am familiar with the reference photos you have posted as both bikes have been on eBay in the past year, I believe both are repainted assemblages rather than repainted originals. The Blue bike is close to a factory correct build but the frame means the bike is from 1940-1942, not any earlier. The red bike was assembled on a postwar “3-Gill” frame from no earlier than 1947 and has been fitted with a prewar tank for a completely different frame which I refer to as the “Bent-Tank” (The blue frame and tank are also Bent-Tank variants and display how the tank is meant to fit.)

*“Bent Tanks” and 3-Gills*

Bent-Tanks (which may or may not have 3 louvers) and 3-Gills are two different frame styles and the tanks for each come in a number of variants that will physically interchange across years but not between the two frame styles. Bent-Tank frames were produced by Cleveland Welding (CWC) from 1936-1942, 3-Gill frames were produced by CWC from 1938-1942 and then after the war from 1945/6 through about 1956/7. In addition to the CWC produced frames, very similar bikes were produced by H. P. Snyder for Montgomery Ward to sell alongside the CWC produced bikes. Some of these used the same tanks as the CWC bikes while others used similar tanks made specifically for the Snyder built models. 

*Tank Variations*

The earliest Bent Tanks with the removable battery door were produced and patented by Cleveland Welding in 1936 and do not have any louvers because they were first used on bikes with external horns, the louvers were added later when the horns moved indoors. The original placement for the horn button opening was in the top front corner where it stayed through about 1939. During 1940 the tanks lost the opening door. Charting the changes to the tank variations at that point becomes more complex and I believe that the tanks with a middle side location for the horn button hole are actually the ones produced for the later Snyder frames. 

As noted above, in the case of Montgomery Wards Hawthornes, very similar models were produced by both CWC and H. P. Snyder for several years which complicates what constitutes a factory correct assembly but it can be sorted out. 

So, the specific tank you need will depend upon the frame you are fitting it to, the year of the frame, and the model you are replicating. If you post a photo of the frame you have or the specific bike you are building it might help toward making sure you get the exact version of the tank you are after.


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## videoranger (Jan 28, 2011)

I posted a gallery picture of a 1939 Wards Hawthorne Comet for reference. It is all original as purchased from original owner. It has no repaints or part swaps/ replacement except for repair to the rear model DD two speed hub. The tank has the horn button on the left top. Battery access requires removing the tank.


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## RMS37 (Jan 28, 2011)

My apologies for spreading miss-information---I WAS SUPER WRONG!

I ran through my photo bank this morning and found that the earliest version of the CWC bent tank with a horn button *does place the button in the center of the off-side of the tank.* 

This variant would be the proper version of the tank for a1937 bike and the tanks with the button on the top front corner of the tank would likely be a change for 1938. I will keep scanning photos to see if I can dredge up any more info to make up for my gaffe.

And, Thanks Videoranger for the posting of the original 39 Comet, this is one of the Snyder built bikes which come in several variations. They have a frame, fenders, and stays that are unique to Snyder and share some other parts with the similar CWC produced models.


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## breezerbikemaan (Jan 28, 2011)

*heres the goods ...what exactly do I have here?*











Ok.....I'm confused,  The red tank is the one with the battery door,.. it also has the horn buttonhole clearly on the left side and the "gills" are identical to the ones on the blue tank which has the button hole on the front top left, the red tank also has the removable battery panel. the blue does not.  anyhow, I am the guilty party who built both of the "Frankenthornes" and I was well aware of the red tank faux-pa-on the wrong frame, but AFTER it was too late.......all an innocent (ignornce-based) mistake, (oh, the benefits if I had researched). 
So (with your vast knowledge and (hopefully) guidance,
maybe I can get this one right.      
By the way, on page 179 of "Collectable Elgin JC Higgins and Hawthornes Bicycles" it shows a pic of a '39 "Comet" fully dressed with the works, including a tank, also on pg 174 it shows both a '38 "zep" and a '38 "Comet" both with a tank.
Well,  here's what  I have...what do I have?  Breezerbikemaan/Jim


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## RMS37 (Jan 28, 2011)

Hi Jim, Thanks for posting the pictures of your project and the serial number, and thanks for starting this thread to begin with, in the process of digging in to the subject again (and making a mistake) I have learned quite a bit more about the chronology of the "Bent-Tank models.

The frame you have (dated by the serial number) is a 1942 model. After running the serial numbers up through K99999 in 1941, CWC started over with A00001. These "A" series bikes are the last serial numbers produced by CWC before production ended in February of 1942. While there is no documentation to clearly show when the "K" bikes were completed and the "A" bikes entered production, it is relatively safe to refer to them as the 1942 model line, which under normal circumstances would have been in production by Christmas of 1941. 

I have more information and photo references I will post on this topic shortly; I'm trying to catch up after a double whammy cold and stomach flu so I'm currently behind on several fronts. This topic is also connected to a couple of other recent postings and I will try to bring this into one discussion. For now I will add this link to one of the other posts which shows a bike that is a fairly close contemporary to what you have,

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?13327-Paging-Dr.-CWC

More soon,

Phil


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## breezerbikemaan (Jan 28, 2011)

thanks  so much Phil, I will keep watch...Breezerbikemaan/Jim


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## breezerbikemaan (Jan 28, 2011)

Now, to all those who may have one, I am officially upgrading my search to a 1942 3-gill  button horn tank for a Wards Hawthorne  "Comet" 
even if in need of repair or metal, (I can fix) please give me a hollar at breezerbikes@live.com and well strike a deal,  
I really HAVE to  get this tank to finish my project....fingers crossed,  breezerbikemaan/Jim     Thanks


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## RMS37 (Jan 28, 2011)

I’ll pop back in to clarify one thing.

The tank commonly called the 3-Gill in the hobby is the one that fits the 3-gill frames like the red one pictured at the beginning of the post. The tank in the shape of the one on the blue bike and on the original red bike is the one I call the “Bent Tank” because of the distinctive downward kink toward the rear of the tank. Most of these tanks also have 3 Gills or louvers on each side but the 3-Gill and the Bent Tank tanks are differently shaped and are not interchangeable.

On the bright side the tank you are looking for is not plentiful but it is much easier to find than the earlier versions of the same tank or the prewar versions of the 3-Gill tank.


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## RMS37 (Jan 28, 2011)

Here is another link to an earlier post and a picture of BWbiker's 1941 Hawthorne with its original "Bent Tank"

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?9129-Hawthorne-Prewar&p=42122&highlight=#post42122


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## breezerbikemaan (Jan 29, 2011)

*bent tank vs gill tank*












hi phil, here's a better angle of the blue tank ...it  is also a bent tank (look at rear)
it has the same exact down curve at rear. scratching my head.....Breezerbikemaan/Jim jim


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