# Alert! HD on Ebay



## Stephen (May 1, 2011)

I feel sorry for any bidder that bids on that terrible fake teen's HD Bicyle (buyer beware). I beleive the only thing that might be correct on that bicycle is the sprocket. If you have bid on that bicyle withdraw your bid. The bike is a total fraud. Regards, Stephen


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## OldRider (May 1, 2011)

Here we go again..........I think this is the link Stephen is referring to.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Harley-Davidson...738?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25633f392a


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## Larmo63 (May 1, 2011)

I sent him a message, did anyone else?


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## Talewinds (May 1, 2011)

I think this one was discussed several weeks ago, it's just such a blatant falsification, he did lower the price by QUITE a bit though.


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## Larmo63 (May 1, 2011)

It's a "Harley Fakeidson" bicycle for heaven's sake!


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## redline1968 (May 1, 2011)

a dressed up elgin frame with a funky fork.  ahh.... finally u see the light!


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## jdbicycle (May 1, 2011)

wow, in case you don't know, I am new to this forum. I must say this forum ROCKS. i was just looking at some old bikes on eBay. I am glad there are people (on this forum) who know there stuff and keep us posted about frauds like the one mentioned above.


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## cyn234 (May 1, 2011)

I am the owner of the Ad and the Bike on EBay. It was never listed as a fraud. As stated in the ad I was listing it with the information I was given when I obtained the bike. One person did email me and let me know you were taking my bike apart as a fake. If I had known about this site earlier, I might could have obtained more information about it and known what was what. I am offended to be taken as someone trying to willingly pass off a fake. I never claimed to be an expert, and made sure that I listed in the ad that all I had to go on was what I was told. I'm not asking $5000.00 for the bicycle, my reserve is only $1300.00. I did lower the reserve, not because it’s a fake, but because I need to sell the bike to help pay for a program for my autistic son. To everyone who knows these bikes, I'm sorry I don't have all the information like the experts.


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## cyn234 (May 1, 2011)

Thank you for letting us know about this, You were the only person that contacted me about the ad being discussed on here as a fraud, unfortunalty everyone else is of the mind to tear me apart for it, but I was never educated on Harley Davidson Bicycles. I had never even seen or cared to look for a Harley Davidson Bicycle as I am not a bicycle collector. A friend of mine sold me the bike and told me everything I said in the ad. Someone made a comment about the screws that hold the badge, the screws are new, the old ones were stripped and loose  so I replaced them. Thanks again for contacting me.


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## rustyspoke66 (May 1, 2011)

Thanks for joining in on the conversation, as specially since your the guy selling the bike. The cabe can be a fairly tough crowd simply because we do see guys trying to sell bike that are fakes all the time. There was a post awhile ago that talked about building a fake Harley and there are a lot of mixed thoughts on it. I would say honesty is the best direction to go. You may want to say in the add that you are not a Harley expert and for people to do there own research. Just my thoughts, JT           Oh, it's still a cool bike.


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## Stephen (May 2, 2011)

jdbicyle:

You may need to sell the bike for a program for your son, but you are trying to benefit from an inflated sale price, and novice buyers, by advertising that so called bike as a teen's HD. Shame on you!

From what I have read in the above posts, you have been contacted and informed as to the incorrectness of this bicycle.

Until you change your Ebay discription to say HD Clone, I'll call it like I see it! Stephen


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## redline1968 (May 2, 2011)

I have to say it is not a hd.  that frame is a dayton built elgin ca 1918 to 20. its all wrong. going on other peoples words is not the way to sell it. you need to document the parts with references that pertain to hd. if you build one it must have the hd correct parts to be a hd that's including the right frame. and those who buy one need to do their reasearch before purchasing one or any bike.


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## kunzog (May 2, 2011)

The seller does state that he is selling the bike based on what he had been told from the previous owner. Give the seller a break. It is amazing how many HD experts there are on here.


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## redline1968 (May 2, 2011)

not many..........


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## bud poe (Jul 17, 2011)

Hate to beat a dead horse but look what I just found on ebay..."After 20 years of searching, i finally found one"...buyer beware!
http://cgi.ebay.com/HARLEY-DAVIDSON...aultDomain_0&hash=item35b3b77420#ht_782wt_936


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## Larmo63 (Jul 18, 2011)

Let's hear what is right/wrong about this one. Or, isit the same one?


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## chitown (Jul 18, 2011)

Same seller I believe. What else I believe I'll keep to myself. Like the saying goes: "If I got anything to say, I'll say it in lead!"

I'm not properly armed with knowledge of HD to spout out a proper tirade of correctnessness.

Caveat emptor!

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http://tinyurl.com/4276ydo


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## chitown (Jul 19, 2011)

At least they say it's restored this time. Still is a bit deceiving language and not sure which parts _*are*_ original. *HAS HAD A LIGHT RESTORATION. ITS ORIGINAL ONLY ONCE!!. OLIVE GREEN AND BREWSTER GREEN has been air brushed on to help make this original paint harley look even better.*

Looks like the same bike as before with the same issues just cleaned up and given some nice wheels & tires and oh yeah...  airbrushed!!!???


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## The Doctor (Jul 19, 2011)

Gentlemen, 
                   I cannot confer with the diagnoses of the silmilarity of these 2 auctions. I have studied in great detail the photos of the 2 auctions, trying to link the 2 bikes to the same seller. BUT alas I cannot. The bikes in question differ in the 1st bike has a second bar under the top bar, and the top bar shape is not the same. I studied the back ground in the photos trying to confirm that the photos were taken in the same place, I cannot. One has sidewalks and the other does not. The grass seems also to appear different. Also, one bike is missing the upper seat springs and the other is not. The bike with the second top bar has had extensive welding of the lower rear frame stays to the bottom bracket. I can not see this on the other bike. Last point the first bike was located in South Carolina and the second in North Carolina, about 200 miles apart.

                                                     Any thoughts +++ Doc


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## LeoBao (Aug 4, 2011)

I had never even seen or cared to look for a Harley Davidson Bicycle as I am not a bicycle collector. A friend of mine sold me the bike and told me everything I said in the ad. Someone made a comment about the screws that hold the badge, the screws are new, the old ones were stripped and loose so I replaced them. 
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## redline1968 (Aug 5, 2011)

i revalue the friend on the sale


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## osmetix (Sep 17, 2011)

*you all are wrong!*




 original


 1st ebay bike 
in the 1st add the bike is a fake. the headbade is available at bike shows for 200 bucks under the table. it is a lead repop spray painted copper, sold by a guy who has 2 originals. the sprocket on the 1st bike looks dead on, a lot survived because they are so cool. the frame is all wrong, the second bar from the top meets the neck, on harley frames it doesnt meet the neck. basically this is a tribute bike, meaning someone is trying to put together a harley with a few original parts and repops. the crank, sprocket, seat, handle bars and fenders might be right. the forks are so wrong. neck is wrong. rims? are they lobdell wood? are the sprockets new departure? as far as a tribute bike goes, its ok. 1800 bucks is ok. a lot of those parts can get you there.


 original


 2nd ebay bike
now here is where all of you are so far off its funny, the secound bike is pretty much original. the seat is missing the second set of springs, thats it. the 1st bike's seat has them. they are both troxel and correct. what makes it funny is that he gives you a picture of the bike from a actual harley add (above). the bike he is selling is really rare. those v shaped handle bars and that single bar frame are not common like the handle bars and frame on the 1st bike. also, the headbadge is off the bike, showing you the back of it. the reason why he does this is because he wants to show you it is stamped out of copper (original). its not a repop, the repops have flat smooth backs and are casted, not stamped. you cant cast the original headbadge, it is to thin. only a jeweler could do that and it would cost as much as buying a original. the only thing wrong with the bike is, he should have not painted it. he should of had it restored and pin stripped like original. the seller told me the reason why he is asking 3,999.99 and not 5k is because he just wants out. there are so many fakes out there, that when a real bike comes along after searching for 20 years, no one can believe its real. to many attacks and questioning. he actually gave all his literature and cataloges away with the sale. now that is sad. the scary part of it all is, some of you seemed to go on the fact that both the bikes had been freshly painted and are the same bike, when that is the only thing they have in common. so that means a real good forger would really only have to match the paint job, pin striping and antique it just right to fool the general public. honestly, that would be the easy part.


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## chitown (Sep 17, 2011)

Here is the bike before it was painted and new wheels added...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230578254799&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNARL:US:1123

And there were other threads that talked about how the seller sold some loose chain rings a few months before, so I'd say that it may have the correct bevel on it but it is a modern repop chain ring


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## osmetix (Sep 17, 2011)

*right!*

i talked to him after the second listing of the bike. he did tell me he restored the bike and was not denying it. he figured real collectors would contact him for a explanation. he was not getting much interest in found condition. i studied all the pics and collect all the pictures from adds on ebay of harely bicycles. im a collector and have several real headbadges, sprockets with cranks,  frames, forks, handlebars and more. im restoring a harley track bike as we speak. im a harley bike freak. you should see my knucklehead, i love harley motorcycles too. i know whats up! i have several friends with the real deal. he did have a bunch of repop sprockets he found at a meet and turned them loose as repops for real cheap, they were unbevelled. i have repop stuff from bike shows and sell them as repops if a friend or someone needs something. all the collectors i know who have original bikes collect real good repop stuff. all im saying is that bike was the real deal and rare. its sad all people know are the tress and double bar tank frames.


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## chitown (Sep 18, 2011)

Thanks for your input. I think it is tough to judge from pictures only. Especially when Davis Daytons are essentially the same bike minus the badge and sprocket.

I'm definitely not a Harley expert, far from it, but I observed the following on the 1st time he listed it:

1. the mis-matched patina on sprocket vs cranks
View attachment 27012
2. paint under green looks like Dayton red bikes I have seen
View attachment 27013
3. chain is clean and rest of bike looks like it's been in a sand pit after being dipped in wd40
View attachment 27014

I think instead of ebay this is the type of bike to go to Copake or other auction where the buyers can look up close and judge for themselves. It would only help establish the authenticity of the bike. That said, I think the seller made a mistake in airbrushing and trying to restore. He would have been better off bringing it to a Trexlertown or Ann Arbor or any other gathering of knowledgeable experts to help it's provenance. Instead we get ebay listings that get taken down the minute chatter starts on sites like this. It doesn't give a sense of confidence in the listing or the seller for that matter. I think, in fact, the seller did have a motobyke for sale before the camelback and it also was put up with almost the same listing and taken down just after being talked about here. It may have been the one that turned up as the 1st posted bike on this thread... though the paint had changed since then.

I hope to see pics of your Harley Racer project. Although I'm not a Harley freak, I love the old racer models.
View attachment 27015


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## osmetix (Sep 18, 2011)

yeah i do see your point. i was reading some threads on this site, im new, and found a thread about the motocyke he had listed. looks real fishy now that you mention it. i would never pay high dollar for anything without provenance. it looks to me like he finds the common parts that davis sewing used when building all the differnt brands of bikes including harley and throws the bike together. im sure he had a hard time scoring that headbadge and desided to use it on the most complete bike he could pass off.


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## redline1968 (Sep 18, 2011)

wrong on  ebay #2.   the second is a elgin also. its a fake; also, the bars are a option for the hd and other bikes.  the reason for that type of stand is for the style of adjusters on the rear drop out. no other frame uses it because a conventional stand won't work. unique to daytons / hd.  pictured here is wrong sprocket and badge but  all other parts gives you a good idea what a  real hd should be.


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