# Elgin Sewing Machine And Bicycle Company



## Thumper59 (Oct 19, 2020)

Hi, I'm looking for info if you have it. I think I must have stumbled into a very rare bike. It is from the "Elgin Sewing Machine And Bicycle Company" in Elgin Illinois. I can only find that the company did exist from 1896-99, and that they also produced bicycles for 2 years of the 4. I also found one print ad picture online, but nothing more about their bicycles. The model name is "Gunning" with an ad slogan of "We are Gunning for you". The frame, handle bars, and fork tubing is fluted or corrugated. The head badge is very elaborate, but there are no wheels or fenders on it. I worked on my own and others bikes when younger and would not hesitate to take on a restoration, but I know zero about antique bikes and any info about it or it's possible value would be very helpful.


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## rustyjones (Oct 20, 2020)

A picture is worth a thousand words...


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## gkeep (Oct 20, 2020)

Sounds like a really interesting bike from the Golden Age, pictures please.

Based on the search I just did there is a healthy supply of misinformation about Elgins out there thanks to ads like this for a cheaply restored Sears Elgin from the 1920s or 30s. What a fantasy price and who'd go to all the trouble of repainting and not fix the seriously bent forks? I see they put a Ridable Replicas seat on from my neighbor Greg, cost them a fraction what an original seat would be. Hopefully your bike has not been "restored" like this one.

How could they get their historic information, price and date of the bike so wrong?








						Wooden Rimmed Elgin Bicycle
					

Wooden Rimmed Elgin Bicycle sold by TV's "Pawn Stars" Gold & Silver Pawn Shop




					gspawn.com


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## piercer_99 (Oct 20, 2020)

they ruined that poor bike.

idiots.


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## piercer_99 (Oct 20, 2020)

regarding the original post though, I bring you this.

That is all I have for you on this.

So, with that in mind, how about some photos of your bike, and we can answer your other questions.

Pierce


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## Thumper59 (Oct 20, 2020)

I'm not as savvy on the computer as I would like to be. I will try to take and load photos tomorrow. Where can I get one of those books? I could find nothing. Has anyone ever seen another of these? That said, you don't know how happy I am to see the picture! I was afraid I was going to have to try to find original fenders and chain guard, but it looks like it didn't have any. It has the "lucky seven" seat post. I don't know which of the 3 handlebar options is on it, but they are original because the tubing matches the rest of the frame (no grips on them). The chain and crank are there and move freely, but when I took it out of the car today to put it in the garage, I saw one side of the crank had been broken off and a very poor job was done welding it back together. (I did not look it over at all when I bought it, at the price of $33 I just wanted it in my car and gone before someone else offered more for it). There is only one pedal and it is an Ideal brand rubber block pedal, so probably not original.  The paint is dirty, and maybe faded, but mostly there, and original. If cleaned up it looks like it would be an odd pale green with a yellow pinstripe in the bottom of each groove in the frame. Also some pinstripes on the forks. The aluminum fork crown caps are both there with "Gunning" cast into the tops of them. It is unrestored, in as found (dry barn find) condition. From the specs. in the book there, and what I see on the net, it looks like it may be hard and very costly to find parts for this. Looks like $1000 price range for parts if I'm patient and lucky. Thanks for the answers and I will try to get photos posted.


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## Blue Streak (Oct 21, 2020)

Elgin Sewing Machine & Bicycle Company history:

August 1895 - Incorporated by Robert J. Gunning, George B. Haines and James S. McKenney with $200,000 capital stock
October 1895 - Company purchased land and buildings of a defunct concern in Elgin IL for $30,000. Moved manufacturing there from Arlington Heights IL
January 1896 - Employed 150 workers
May 1896 - Factory was heavily damaged by a cyclone/tornado
August 1896 - Financial troubles but appear to have got through it
January & February 1897 - Exhibited at Chicago and New York City bicycle shows
April 1897 - More financial troubles
December 1897 - Last ad found for them
July 1899 - Factory purchased by a new automobile concern. Article states bicycle plant had been idle for some time.
July 1900 - Automobile maker fails

Here are some references. Looks like these were only sold 1896 and 1897. Yours may be 1897 model as corrugated tubing is not mentioned until January 1897.

Can you find a serial number on the frame? Looking forward to seeing photos of yours.

October 24, 1895 issue of _The Bearings:_











November 15, 1895 issue of _The Wheel:_







February 21, 1896 issue of _The Wheel:_




May 26, 1896 issue of _The Chicago Chronicle:_




June 5, 1896 issue of _The Wheel:_




July 30, 1896: Gunning bicycle with serial number 3573 listed as stolen.

August 20, 1896 issue of _The Tuscaloosa Gazette:_




September 2, 1896 issue of_ The Watchman and Southron (Sumter SC)_




January 29, 1897 issue of _The Wheel:_




February 11, 1897 issue of _The Referee:_




December 15, 1897 issue of _The Lenoir Topic (Lenoir NC)_


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## Thumper59 (Oct 21, 2020)

Finally got some photos before it got too dark. They are



























































n't the best but they do show there was at least one survivor.


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## saladshooter (Oct 21, 2020)

Very cool bike! Congrats!


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## Thumper59 (Oct 21, 2020)

I can try for some better photos if it doesn't rain tomorrow. You can see the ugly crank welding job in one of them. It can probably be repaired or replaced as they likely did not make their own. The ad refers to Fairbanks built up wheels, are those a laminated wood rim? At first I thought maybe $1000 for missing parts, but the more I look I think I'm not likely to find correct parts at any price.


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## fordmike65 (Oct 21, 2020)

Thumper59 said:


> Finally got some photos before it got too dark. They areView attachment 1288469
> 
> View attachment 1288470
> 
> ...



MY GOD!!! Please...if that is indeed original paint & plating, PLEASE do not strip & "restore" this bike. It deserves to be preserved as much as possible. Put your feelers out and take your time finding the correct parts...or some close period pieces. I have never seen one of these, & I'm pretty sure most Cabe members are with me on that. WOW!!! I am in awe.... :eek:


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## Thumper59 (Oct 21, 2020)

fordmike65 said:


> MY GOD!!! Please...if that is indeed original paint & plating, PLEASE do not strip & "restore" this bike. It deserves to be preserved as much as possible. Put your feelers out and take your time finding the correct parts...or some close period pieces. I have never seen one of these, & I'm pretty sure most Cabe members are with me on that. WOW!!! I am in awe.... :eek:
> 
> View attachment 1288514



Like many things happen, it was just a combination of being in the right place at the right time. The others interested in it were too busy looking to find non-existent info on their Ebay phones. In the meantime I purchased it and locked it in my car and left. Ebay provides a lot of help for what to buy or not buy, but I don't have a smart phone, so I make my own decisions about things. I've made mistakes and wasted money but to me that is how I learn, NOT with Ebay. Besides without a smartphone I figured I couldn't lose, I was sure the head badge had to be worth at least what I paid!


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## Thumper59 (Oct 21, 2020)

I took a closer look and yes it appears to be original paint and nickel plating. I also was able to find a serial number, it is #5526. What the number means I don't know. I seems like every company had their own system.


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## piercer_99 (Oct 21, 2020)

Oh ma gawd.

This is a beautiful machine.   Very nice, congratulations.

Heck, I would leave the welded together crank arm on it, just part of it's story.

That frame is artwork.


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## SKPC (Oct 21, 2020)

Everything nicely fluted: "Corrugated" frame tubes and big ones at that!  This may be a sort-of-clean-it (but not much)bike as there cannot be many. Even has an early 3-piece crank on it! Wheels, seat and grips aren't too much to ask for.  Looks like no fenders needed either.


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## Thumper59 (Oct 21, 2020)

SKPC said:


> Everything nicely fluted("corregated") frame tubes and big ones at that!  This may be a sort-of-clean-it but not much bike as there cannot be many. Even has an early 3-piece crank on it! Wheels, seat and grips aren't too much to ask for.  Looks like no fenders needed either.



Fortunately the ad pictures do not show fenders or a chain guard on the men's Gunning. Found a serial # of 5526 on frame.


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## Thumper59 (Oct 21, 2020)

Thanks for all the good info and pictures. You guys have better resources than I could find on the net.


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## Krakatoa (Oct 21, 2020)

Wow that's the cats meow! One handsome bicycle. Congrats and I hope you decide to put it back on it's feet!


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## gkeep (Oct 21, 2020)

Thats is one of the most interesting TOC bikes I've seen here in my brief years as a bike cultist. I'll bet the Smithsonian warehouses don't have one of them, or the Henry Ford Museum, or any other major transportation museum. Anyone aware of another with that fluted frame?  It's the bike find of the month at least! WE are not worthy...


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## Rambler (Oct 22, 2020)

Very unusual bike with the fluted frame tubes. I agree with others, I would concentrate on "*preserving*" this bike and find period correct wheels, seat, etc. for it but do not "restore" it. I would not want to do anything that might remove any of that original paint.


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## dnc1 (Oct 22, 2020)

fordmike65 said:


> MY GOD!!! Please...if that is indeed original paint & plating, PLEASE do not strip & "restore" this bike. It deserves to be preserved as much as possible. Put your feelers out and take your time finding the correct parts...or some close period pieces. I have never seen one of these, & I'm pretty sure most Cabe members are with me on that. WOW!!! I am in awe.... :eek:
> 
> View attachment 1288514






piercer_99 said:


> Oh ma gawd.
> 
> This is a beautiful machine.   Very nice, congratulations.
> 
> ...






SKPC said:


> Everything nicely fluted("corrugated") frame tubes and big ones at that!  This may be a sort-of-clean-it but not much bike as there cannot be many. Even has an early 3-piece crank on it! Wheels, seat and grips aren't too much to ask for.  Looks like no fenders needed either.






Rambler said:


> Very unusual bike with the fluted frame tubes. I agree with others, I would concentrate on "*preserving*" this bike and find period correct wheels, seat, etc. for it but do not "restore" it. I would not want to do anything that might remove any of that original paint.



Ditto to all of the above.
Beautiful bicycle!


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## Thumper59 (Oct 22, 2020)

I was asked about frame size. It is a 24" frame. I'm just starting to look for period parts. This is NOT a poor man's hobby is it? Still hoping for period wheels and seat for around $1000. I think that's doable. So far everyone here says don't touch the paint, so without that cost it helps a lot. Advice on how and with what for clean up on the frame would be helpful as well. Thanks again for the help and information.


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## Blue Streak (Oct 23, 2020)

I fully agree with comments so far as to not touching the paint/plating, and I think what they mean is do _nothing _to clean it up. At most I would use a feather duster or dry cloth to get any dust or cobwebs off but that is as far as I would go with it. 

As for wheels, keep watching the CABE For Sale Section or post in the Wanted Section for a pair of matching aged (unrestored) set of wood rims, spokes and hubs (with or without 28" tires) for display only and make it look like a rolling bicycle again. Photo below shows a set of old wheels I had laying around and put on a frame I picked up. Having wheels will help keep the frame from getting damaged. I install 2" OD black rubber hose on some of my display bicycles to make them look better without spending a lot of money. Find a local commercial hose supply store, cut to length and put a smaller diameter plastic splice with screws in rubber hose (not into the rim) to hold the hose tight to the rim so you can roll it around.

Watch the CABE For Sale Section or post in Wanted Section for original seat or buy a Paul Watson replica. I would focus on making it look more complete for display for now and enjoy looking at it, then you can take the time to accumulate the parts needed to make it rideable if desired. Great bike!!














Original typical period correct seat (saddle) or Paul Watson replica:


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## cyclingday (Oct 23, 2020)

I must admit, that this thread started with a whimper, but sure ended with a bang!
I saw the title a couple of days ago, and just glanced past it.
So, out of curiosity, I figured I’d take a look at see what was going on.
Holy Sh^*!
That ain’t no ordinary Elgin!
What a find!
A Colnago Master, about a hundred years prior!
Yeah, ditto to everything that’s been said already.
That’s a National Treasure, and may likely be the only surviving example of a Gunning with fluted tubes and bars.
Super lucky that the handlebar was still there.
Try finding that piece if it was gone.
I think this bike is best left as a very interesting collectors conversation piece.
Finding a set of Turn of the Century wheels and saddle for it, won’t be too difficult.
There are a few guys here, that specialize in that era, and I’m sure they can help you out, or at least point you in the right direction.
Very cool bike!
Thanks, for bringing it here for us all to see.
Go slow, and treat it, as if you just found the Mona Lisa.
Da Vinci would be proud.


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## Balloonoob (Oct 23, 2020)

I too glanced over this thread without clicking thinking it wouldn't be that great.  After reading the beginning.... Yeah someone found an Elgin bike and thinks it's worth a fortune. Well they all do. But then the pictures. OH THE PICTURES! What an amazing bicycle you have found. You have caught the leprechaun and if you ask you can get his pot of gold! To find it this complete you are very lucky. Congratulations! Most bikes should be ridden but I think this one needs period wheels seat and grips added (not necessarily nice enough to be functional) and displayed for viewing pleasure only. It looks as though the left pedal is missing..... Question for the TOC guys - is the right pedal "DSMCO"? Davis and likely correct for this bike? If so is finding another set or just a matching left pedal going to be difficult?


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## Thumper59 (Oct 23, 2020)

Balloonoob said:


> I too glanced over this thread without clicking thinking it wouldn't be that great.  After reading the beginning.... Yeah someone found an Elgin bike and thinks it's worth a fortune. Well they all do. But then the pictures. OH THE PICTURES! What an amazing bicycle you have found. You have caught the leprechaun and if you ask you can get his pot of gold! To find it this complete you are very lucky. Congratulations! Most bikes should be ridden but I think this one needs period wheels seat and grips added (not necessarily nice enough to be functional) and displayed for viewing pleasure only. It looks as though the left pedal is missing..... Question for the TOC guys - is the right pedal "DSMCO"? Davis and likely correct for this bike? If so is finding another set or just a matching left pedal going to be difficult?



Unfortunately the right pedal is Ideal brand and from what I see they didn't make those until much later.


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## manuel rivera (Oct 23, 2020)

WOW!!!!!WHAT A BEAUTY!


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## Thumper59 (Nov 18, 2020)

I am trying to get this Gunning back on it's wheels. The previously posted 1897 catalog specified brand names of parts on the Corrugated Gunning. With that I was able to start looking for original parts. It specified Plymouth or American brand, 32 spoke front, and 36 spoke rear rims. I now have an original front wheel, believe it or not one showed up on Ebay. It is a one piece Plymouth brand wood rim and in pretty good condition. Unpainted, with a good hub, axle and bearings, and only one broken spoke. How's that for dumb luck. I'll find the other parts too. (I hope) I also plan to buy a simple pair of old 26" rims and new cream or red tires to make it road worthy and give it a ride. My big problem now is what kind of brake hub to put on the rear wood rim when I find it. Not much I can find on line for brakes that date to 1897. Can someone here help with the right answer? The book does not specify the hub brand. It only says "large tubular hubs made from round solid bar steel". Does that mean they actually manufactured them, or was that a general description used at the time? Thanks for any help you can offer.


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## Blue Streak (Nov 19, 2020)

Here are pages from 1897 Elgin catalog showing The Corrugated Gunning which was only sold as a 1897 model. Elgin catalog posted earlier in this thread is 1896:





















This would not have had a brake. Rear hub would have been fixed, single speed, like fixies today. I believe tubular hub refers to drum or cylindrical shape like in photo below. They probably made their hubs own being they had a factory that made both sewing machines and bicycles. Make sure thickness of sprocket on rear hub matches your chain. Should be either 3/16" or 1/4" thick. Also check axle size to make sure fits into fork holes and frame slots. Your Gunning is in such original untouched condition I would not ride it, clean it or take it apart, but find period correct, equally aged (patinaed) parts and enjoy it as a great piece of bicycle history. Thanks for sharing it on CABE.


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