# HD



## Cdollar4

Harley Project coming together.




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## rocketman

That's a keeper no matter what............Shoot more images..................


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## Cdollar4

I'll post some more Rocketman

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## rocketman

Always wanted one for bragging rights but I cant even afford the chain ring!


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## Barto

Wow, never seen one.....way cool


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## bricycle

Man, I'd give my left nut cracker for one of those, but ain't got no muny sonny.


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## Freqman1

More pics for sure! Some good close-ups of fork crown and frame construction particularly at head tube would be useful for me. What year is the bike? V/r Shawn


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## Cdollar4

getting my battery can on this week. Trying to adjust my can clamps.

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## Freqman1

Just curious--is this a replica or the real deal? V/r Shawn


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## bricycle

How does one identify a fake Harley frame?


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## Freqman1

I don't know enough about these to tell for sure but is that a real HD (Davis) frame and fork? I was asking for better pics so I could compare it against known bikes. Trying to educamate myself! V/r Shawn


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## Cdollar4

Yes it is all correct Davis

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## Cdollar4

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## redline1968

The frame numbers?


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## Cdollar4

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## Freqman1

So did this bike start out as an HD or is this a Davis frame with the HD stuff added? V/r Shawn


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## Cdollar4

It might have.

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## Cdollar4

I built it as a Harley with the correct parts

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## bricycle

Not even Harleys started out as Harleys.... they were just a production run of frames that were hanging up.
Someone pulled an order for a Harley bike to be "built" and then the employee(s) drilled holes for a Harley badge(non bottle cap), painted a Harley color, added Harley chain wheel, proper fork etc. 
Any factory frame could as well have been a straight Davis.
Most of these bikes we will never know. Provenance helps, but isn't the end all either. Photos can be altered, (I have a photo of the original owner when he was 14 years old...) yea, maybe.... bill of sale... can be made.... heck, even important birth certificates can be forged (we won't get into that here).
Maybe a parent bought a Davis to give Bobby, and Bobby's friend shows up at the ball park with a Harley bike. Bobby tells his folks, "I want (screaming) a Harley like Tommy has!!!! Parents bring bike back to the LBS. Shop takes it and changes into a Harley to please the all important customer. Bingo...instant Harley!
Another example: Chiefs, Napoleons, Elgins..... all same dig dang frames...... with different add-ons.
Lindy's? same thing...... began as plain Shelby frame.


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## Balloontyre

This thread is weird, I don't get it .


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## bricycle

Balloontyre said:


> This thread is weird, I don't get it .




I hope I'm not making it weird.....
I am weird tho..... so maybe that's it...


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## Balloontyre

bricycle said:


> I hope I'm not making it weird.....
> I am weird tho..... so maybe that's it...




No man, but stay weird.


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## Cdollar4

You are right Bri!!

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## rustjunkie

bricycle said:


> Maybe a parent bought a Davis to give Bobby, and Bobby's friend shows up at the ball park with a Harley bike. Bobby tells his folks, "I want (screaming) a Harley like Tommy has!!!! ...




More likely 

[video=youtube;0f6l1QljpMo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f6l1QljpMo[/video]


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## Joe Buffardi

Im weird too!!


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## Cdollar4

Holy Cow, all I was doing is showing my project!!!

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## Cdollar4

Using chemistry to build my next Harley!!

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## redline1968

Balloontyre said:


> This thread is weird, I don't get it .




It happens that way. Nice project


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## Cdollar4

Thanks redline

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## hoofhearted

*Good Schtuff - your '18 H-D Motorcyke !*


....... patric


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## chitown

I think that would make it an *H-D tribute bike*. 

Nice bones there.


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## Cdollar4

Thanks Patric..

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## barracuda

bricycle said:


> Not even Harleys started out as Harleys.... they were just a production run of frames that were hanging up.
> Someone pulled an order for a Harley bike to be "built" and then the employee(s) drilled holes for a Harley badge(non bottle cap), painted a Harley color, added Harley chain wheel, proper fork etc.
> Any factory frame could as well have been a straight Davis.
> Most of these bikes we will never know. Provenance helps, but isn't the end all either. Photos can be altered, (I have a photo of the original owner when he was 14 years old...) yea, maybe.... bill of sale... can be made.... heck, even important birth certificates can be forged (we won't get into that here).
> Maybe a parent bought a Davis to give Bobby, and Bobby's friend shows up at the ball park with a Harley bike. Bobby tells his folks, "I want (screaming) a Harley like Tommy has!!!! Parents bring bike back to the LBS. Shop takes it and changes into a Harley to please the all important customer. Bingo...instant Harley!









I think we need a dedicated Harley thread 'round here.


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## redline1968

barracuda said:


> View attachment 263880
> 
> I think we need a dedicated Harley thread 'round here.




I think so.. There is always dispute on this subject.


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## Cdollar4

Great idea!!

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## Joe Buffardi

I dig it! I cant wait to find one for myself.


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## Balloontyre

barracuda said:


> View attachment 263880
> 
> I think we need a dedicated Harley thread 'round here.




 H-D bikes been faked for nearly 100 years. That is the highest for of compliment.


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## hoofhearted

*Looking for clarification ...

What is a tribute bicycle ? ... could find no definition-leads on Wiki ......

What is a reproduction bicycle ?

What is an original bicycle ?

What is a production bicycle ?

What is a restored bicycle ?

What is a dis-restored bicycle ?

Last time i looked, H-D never-did make a bicycle.  Based on deep-review
of H-D bicycles ... the H-D bicycles were manufactured by  the Davis Sewing
Machine Co.

Are ALL Davis-Built, H-D bicycles actually tribute and/or reproduction bicycles ?

If a bicycle is said to be restored ... does the restoration apply to repairing only 
the metal-parts that were damaged (in various ways) ... since the bicycle left the 
factory production-line ?

Is the restored bicycle still original ... if the metal-areas that were displaced (thru 
accident-damage .. user damage .. or environmental-damage [rust] ) .... have been  
repaired with modern, metal, thermo-fillers ?

Is the restored bicycle still original ... if the factory-issued primer, paint and pins
have been reissued (during restoration) using modern paint ?

Is the restored bicycle still original ... if the factory-issued plating has been 
removed .. buffed .. and replaced with modern plating ?

Is the dis-restored bicycle nothing more than a bicycle that has been restored ...
to a condition from when the bicycle was first used by the original owner ... Thru Some 
Point In Time ...  when that same bicycle was ''re-found'' ...  possibly one-hundred years
after the bicycles's manufacture ? *

Wonderin' ......


........ patric


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## Flat Tire

I doubt Shawnee Cycle Co. Had permission to build bikes with the HD badge tho, Davis was the only company that had a contract to build them. Even when Shelby bought the remaining stock from Davis, they built some bikes with the HD badge, HD threatened to sue and they stopped.


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## filmonger

Dave Stromberger may know the answer to that question. His HD bike was a work of art.


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## bricycle

hoofhearted said:


> *Looking for clarification ...
> 
> What is a tribute bicycle ? ... could find no definition-leads on Wiki ......
> 
> What is a reproduction bicycle ?
> 
> What is an original bicycle ?
> 
> What is a production bicycle ?
> 
> What is a restored bicycle ?
> 
> What is a dis-restored bicycle ?
> 
> Last time i looked, H-D never-did make a bicycle.  Based on deep-review
> of H-D bicycles ... the H-D bicycles were manufactured by  the Davis Sewing
> Machine Co.
> 
> Are ALL Davis-Built, H-D bicycles actually tribute and/or reproduction bicycles ?
> 
> If a bicycle is said to be restored ... does the restoration apply to repairing only
> the metal-parts that were damaged (in various ways) ... since the bicycle left the
> factory production-line ?
> 
> Is the restored bicycle still original ... if the metal-areas that were displaced (thru
> accident-damage .. user damage .. or environmental-damage [rust] ) .... have been
> repaired with modern, metal, thermo-fillers ?
> 
> Is the restored bicycle still original ... if the factory-issued primer, paint and pins
> have been reissued (during restoration) using modern paint ?
> 
> Is the restored bicycle still original ... if the factory-issued plating has been
> removed .. buffed .. and replaced with modern plating ?
> 
> Is the dis-restored bicycle nothing more than a bicycle that has been restored ...
> to a condition from when the bicycle was first used by the original owner ... Thru Some
> Point In Time ...  when that same bicycle was ''re-found'' ...  possibly one-hundred years
> after the bicycles's manufacture ? *
> 
> Wonderin' ......
> 
> 
> ........ patric




and there you have it, straight from the mouth of reason AND who many folks on here consider an authority (even if he doesn't admit it)
So maybe now we can have folks stop picking the crap out of a bicycle that was just posted as a "Project" bicycle.
Gee, I guess when I replaced the under hood wiring harness on my 1965 Malibu SS, it was no longer an SS but a "clone"....


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## Balloontyre

filmonger said:


> Dave Stromberger may know the answer to that question. His HD bike was a work of art.




Also a fabrication


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## Freqman1

At some point I will probably get around to owning a motorcycle related bicycle e.g. HD, Indian, Merkel... but I think I will hold out for an original bike. nothing wrong with these recreations, tributes, restorations--pick your term I just prefer to have the real deal. V/r Shawn


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## barracuda

Flat Tire said:


> I doubt Shawnee Cycle Co. Had permission to build bikes with the HD badge tho, Davis was the only company that had a contract to build them.




Davis was the only company under contract to produce HD bicycles, but the history of the Shawnee Cycle Co. leads me to believe that they actually produced Harley Davidson bicycles on request from customers, rather than simply receiving completed HD models from Davis. 

Shawnee had been selling Emblem motorcycles in Topeka from 1911, but in 1912, they became a Harley dealership.

Feb. 1912:






April, 1912:





Bear in mind that in 1912 Harley produced a scant 3852 motorcycles. My feeling is that they would have cultivated a very close relationship with their authorized agents, and these newspaper notices show just that - the factory has sent Shawnee a demonstration motorcycle and, it seems, followed up with a trained sales person.

By May of that year, Shawnee had begun a consistent and apparently successful advertising campaign for the Harley Davidson motorcycle, regularly publishing ads in the Topeka area which clearly contain factory produced artwork cuts:





By 1916 (!!), Shawnee had begun selling HD bicycles as well.

Dec. 1916:





And they continued to sell HD bikes throughout the run, advertising them along side their motorcycles almost always with these lovely factory produced ads.





So, it's difficult to accept the idea that Shawnee was producing HD badged bikes without permission. Far more likely, they had not only regular visits from headquarters in Milwalkee, but actual floor sales personnel  who would have been professionally associated with HD if not employed by them outright. All of which makes that earlier ad copy that much more perplexing.


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## barracuda

http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/home/museum/membership/this-day-in-hd-history/0928.html

_*"All Harley-Davidson bicycles were assembled in Milwaukee at Juneau Ave *and had unique badge emblems on the head tubes and a gear wheel design with the letters H and D as part of the casting. Bicycles came in one color, military drab, with detailing in black, gold, and white. Harley-Davidson produced bicycles for four years before they ceased production in 1921."_

So, I dunno.


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## bricycle

have it on good authority there have been HD's done in Black (with prob gold pins) At least one owner has an OG specimen with black paint in BB, fork tube, seat post..... 'course maybe it was an unauthorized unit by the co. that bought them out? (disclaimer: this is not etched in stone, so don't get yer dander up). and no my lips are sealed.


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## bricycle

I'm sure many of us have HD's, but for the most part we are gentlemen, and we don't brag.


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## Flat Tire

Shawnee may have had permission, but it's still speculation, even with strong evidence , I'm only pointing out the facts as known and documented,  that Davis was the only company with a contract. There were lots of copyright and patent infringements back then. You could get away with a lot in those days,  even when HD sent a letter to Shelby telling them to stop selling bikes with the HD badge Shelby just kept doing it, (which I think is funny!) One of the Davidson's actually took a train down there to personally put a stop to it.


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## chitown

Questions that come to mind are:

1. When did Shelby supposedly make these HD bikes? Interestingly, Shelby Cycle Frame Mfg started in 1922 by Gus Meiselbach (who employed a young William Harley at the TOC)

2. What equipment did Shelby buy from Davis, because according to this doc Huffman Mfg had the bicycle equipment that they sold to Excelsior in 1922. Was Davis Sewing Machine around when Huffman Mfg existed?





3. Did Harley-Davidson do any of the assembling of these bikes? I recall seeing something about a wing built at the HD factory dedicated to bicycles.


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## Cdollar4

You guys are stinking nuts. All I posted was something I'm proud of. It's not a walmart bike, not a Target bike it's a Davis Made Bike. And it wasn't free. Each piece I paid for and it wasn't cheap. Heck I even bought the chainring from Ivo. Oh ya thank for not sticking up for my PROJECT I appreciate it. And now I know why I don't post. What a bummer, very disappointed.  

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## chitown

Don't be discouraged, I think people were just wanting to know how original items were as HD bikes are very rare and with many being built up such as yours, it's important to make a distinction. As I said before, I like the bones of your bike. I am happy that you have taken on a project like this and shared it on the cabe and thank you for being honest about it being built up. No reason to pull the old "take my ball and go home" line. Your first post was very open ended and left us wondering as to where you got such a machine as that. 

Again, thanks for posting and hopefully you can understand that because it is a rare and desirable bike that it is bound to stir up the pot a bit without the story behind the "project bike". The more info at the beginning of a thread, the less likely to get as many people assuming the intent of such a thread.

Chris


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## barracuda

Cdollar4 said:


> You guys are stinking nuts. All I posted was something I'm proud of. It's not a walmart bike, not a Target bike it's a Davis Made Bike. And it wasn't free. Each piece I paid for and it wasn't cheap. Heck I even bought the chainring from Ivo. Oh ya thank for not sticking up for my PROJECT I appreciate it. And now I know why I don't post. What a bummer, very disappointed.




Nah, man, your fine Harley bicycle has brought forth a good discussion. She's an awesome looking ride.
Nobody would be talking about it if it wasn't exciting to see, and something we're all interested in.


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## redline1968

Cdollar4 said:


> You guys are stinking nuts. All I posted was something I'm proud of. It's not a walmart bike, not a Target bike it's a Davis Made Bike. And it wasn't free. Each piece I paid for and it wasn't cheap. Heck I even bought the chainring from Ivo. Oh ya thank for not sticking up for my PROJECT I appreciate it. And now I know why I don't post. What a bummer, very disappointed.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk



Do what you like...
No matter how close you build a hd to original specs and every nut, bolt  and frame are correct you'll get the rath of a few who don't like it because it will not have the "paint" blood or the original owner last dying breath saying it's real.


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## rocketman

*HD bike*

You've got a great bike, it stands out from so many of the others. I like it, and well done. For all the purest out there, I'm posting images of my real Harley bikes..................


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## Cdollar4

I know. I just wanted to say what I felt. Thanks for all the comments. For my first big post this one went to the moon.

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## filmonger

I think your HD Davis built bike is dam cool and the care / skill you put into it shows. Spot on and well done! Thank you for posting and any contribution to the research of these fine bikes is always appreciated by all.


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## Balloontyre

chitown said:


> Don't be discouraged, I think people were just wanting to know how original items were as HD bikes are very rare and with many being built up such as yours, it's important to make a distinction. As I said before, I like the bones of your bike. I am happy that you have taken on a project like this and shared it on the cabe and thank you for being honest about it being built up. No reason to pull the old "take my ball and go home" line. Your first post was very open ended and left us wondering as to where you got such a machine as that.
> 
> Again, thanks for posting and hopefully you can understand that because it is a rare and desirable bike that it is bound to stir up the pot a bit without the story behind the "project bike". The more info at the beginning of a thread, the less likely to get as many people assuming the intent of such a thread.
> 
> Chris




Thanks for summing it up, well said. Hey Colby you dont need to defend your project, I didn't see anyone attacking you or the bike. Your first post is basically a picture of a complete bike and no description,  so the questions surfaced. I  was confused by the avoidance behavior of the questions asked, that's why I called the thread  weird.  

Im not sure of the etiquette on a project thread, do we as observers just post high fives or ask questions or say whats correct or not (assuming you want an authentic repop bike) or just say nothing. 
Its your bike and if you're proud of it...Bravo! Best kind to own.
I'm happy for you bud.


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## theterrym

Cdollar4 said:


> You guys are stinking nuts. All I posted was something I'm proud of. It's not a walmart bike, not a Target bike it's a Davis Made Bike. And it wasn't free. Each piece I paid for and it wasn't cheap. Heck I even bought the chainring from Ivo. Oh ya thank for not sticking up for my PROJECT I appreciate it. And now I know why I don't post. What a bummer, very disappointed.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk




I know exactly what you mean. You post something you are very proud of and shortly after wish you hadn't.  If you don't play by the rules of the cool kids club you will definitely hear about it. Keep on building what you want cause I know I am!! Didn't everything great in the world come from people going against the grain? 
Oh yea, killer bike. wish I had one of those!!


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## Archie Sturmer

Nice bike; nice project.


Cdollar4 said:


> Yes it is all correct Davis



The truss fork, as viewed from a distance, kind of looks like an Excelsior Michigan City Indiana and/or Sears Elgin motorbike part?


Cdollar4 said:


> I built it as a Harley with the correct parts


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