# Wright Brothers Day



## facair55

I was invited to participate in the 6th annual Wright Brothers Day held on October 5th, 2016, at Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio. This event celebrates how the innovative spirit of the Wright  Brothers  is shown in today’s history and innovations from Wright State and the local area. Because I own an 1897 Wright Era bicycle, they wanted me to display it at the event. The original Wright Brothers bikes are too valuable to bring out. (5 known surviving bicycles made by the Wright Brothers are known to exist) My bike is very close to theirs in appearance. The Wright era bicycle that I brought to the event is an 1897 Gormully & Jeffery Rambler Light Roadster Model 19 built during the height of the bicycle craze in American. The Wright Brothers repaired and sold bicycles similar to this one.  Most of the bicycles of this period had spoon brakes, wooden rims and single tube tires. The coaster brake was in general use by the early 1900’s. My restored Chicago-made bicycle features spear-point reinforcing on the frame and fork, brazed flared tubing, wrap-around head-badge, a reversible seat post, and original cork grips. Originally, it had a rare foot-operated spoon brake mounted on the fork which was removed.  An  Eclipse  coaster brake (patent 1908) was installed early in the bicycle’s history.  Gormully & Jeffery Mfg. Co. (1878-1900) sold its bicycle business and then evolved making the Rambler automobile and then became American Motors Corporation (AMC).

The two men in the picture are portraying the Wright Brothers. There has never been found a picture of either of the Wright Brothers on a bicycle or standing near a bicycle. Well, I am lucky that I have a depiction of the impossible.


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## partsguy

facair55 said:


> I was invited to participate in the 6th annual Wright Brothers Day held on October 5th, 2016, at Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio. This event celebrates how the innovative spirit of the Wright  Brothers  is shown in today’s history and innovations from Wright State and the local area. Because I own an 1897 Wright Era bicycle, they wanted me to display it at the event. The original Wright Brothers bikes are too valuable to bring out. (5 known surviving bicycles made by the Wright Brothers are known to exist) My bike is very close to theirs in appearance. The Wright era bicycle that I brought to the event is an 1897 Gormully & Jeffery Rambler Light Roadster Model 19 built during the height of the bicycle craze in American. The Wright Brothers repaired and sold bicycles similar to this one.  Most of the bicycles of this period had spoon brakes, wooden rims and single tube tires. The coaster brake was in general use by the early 1900’s. My restored Chicago-made bicycle features spear-point reinforcing on the frame and fork, brazed flared tubing, wrap-around head-badge, a reversible seat post, and original cork grips. Originally, it had a rare foot-operated spoon brake mounted on the fork which was removed.  An  Eclipse  coaster brake (patent 1908) was installed early in the bicycle’s history.  Gormully & Jeffery Mfg. Co. (1878-1900) sold its bicycle business and then evolved making the Rambler automobile and then became American Motors Corporation (AMC).
> 
> The two men in the picture are portraying the Wright Brothers. There has never been found a picture of either of the Wright Brothers on a bicycle or standing near a bicycle. Well, I am lucky that I have a depiction of the impossible.
> View attachment 373911




I graduated from WSU in the spring. I was blessed to be a member the WSU chapter of the American Marketing Association (AMA). The AMA puts this show on every year and is practically a tradition for Wright State. In 2015, I had the idea to orchestrate a classic and antique bicycle show by the main door of the student union building. About 7 bicycles were there, including a high-wheel replica loaned to us from Carillon Park.

The AMA President is still a student there, and I was pleased to hear that the bicycle idea returned this year. It's an important part of the Wright Brother's (and Dayton's) story!


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## partsguy

As a matter of fact, if you search in the "Swap Meets and Events" forum, you'll find my post about last year's show!


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## facair55

partsguy said:


> As a matter of fact, if you search in the "Swap Meets and Events" forum, you'll find my post about last year's show!





partsguy said:


> As a matter of fact, if you search in the "Swap Meets and Events" forum, you'll find my post about last year's show!



I really had a wonderful time at the Wright Bros. Day. The main reason I attended the event was to display a set of tools used in the Wright Airplane Company in 1913. I just happened to have mentioned to the organizer that I owned a Wright Era Bicycle and was told to bring it (the only cycle there). By the way, I watched a video from last year's show to get a feel of the event. You were in the video with your nice collection of bicycles.


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## catfish

Just one photo?.... Please tell us there was more to see. Please post any other photos you have from this.


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## facair55

facair55 said:


> I really had a wonderful time at the Wright Bros. Day. The main reason I attended the event was to display a set of tools used in the Wright Airplane Company in 1913. I just happened to have mentioned to the organizer that I owned a Wright Era Bicycle and was told to bring it (the only cycle there). By the way, I watched a video from last year's show to get a feel of the event. You were in the video with your nice collection of bicycles.



Here is the only video I know of..enjoy
http://webapp2.wright.edu/web1/news...lebrated-universitys-innovative-spirit/#video


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## Wheeled Relics

Photo of the Wright brothers bicycle shop


 

Photo of the Wright Bros house


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## oldspoke

This is pretty cool >>>>

http://webapp2.wright.edu/web1/news...lebrated-universitys-innovative-spirit/#video


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## gkeep

Wonderful story. I have a friend in Maine who grew up in New Jersey. Her great grandfather made the instruments for the early Wright Flyers. He was some type of engineer and designed pressure gauges for steam engines and other needs. Her parents had a cabinet full of letters from the Wrights as well as a complete instrument panel from a Wright Model B flyer. I recall it had 3 or 4 dials, oil pressure, speed, and maybe fuel levels. They had donated many items to the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum but had what amounted to a small Wright Brothers Museum in their home.

As someone who grew up building both plastic and balsa/paper aircraft models I've always been fascinated with their story. My dad was a WWII Army Air Corp and Korea vet who owned a hobby shop between in the wars in LA. Aircraft history was a common topic growing up. I've taken my kids to Kitty Hawk and someday I'd love to visit Dayton.

Hope the event lives on and grows.
Gary


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## partsguy

facair55 said:


> I really had a wonderful time at the Wright Bros. Day. The main reason I attended the event was to display a set of tools used in the Wright Airplane Company in 1913. I just happened to have mentioned to the organizer that I owned a Wright Era Bicycle and was told to bring it (the only cycle there). By the way, I watched a video from last year's show to get a feel of the event. You were in the video with your nice collection of bicycles.




Thank you! Tim Fox (foxclassics here on the CABE) also participated. Most of the bikes out front were made in Ohio. I enjoyed my time at WSU and with the AMA. I wish I went there for all four years, instead of only my junior and senior year, it was a great experience!


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## partsguy

I picked up the high wheel bike from Carillon Park the day before the event, and I have to say that loading that heavy bike in and out of the elevator was a challenge. I am sure I looked hilarious to people who didn't know what it was for!

I was eventually one of four people selected to represent WSU and the AMA at the national conference in New Orleans. Very proud moment!


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## facair55

Condensed History of Wright Brothers bicycles given out at the event


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## Freqman1

facair55 said:


> Condensed History of Wright Brothers bicycles given out at the event
> 
> View attachment 374889




So I took a pic of the bike at the Air and Space museum (Smithsonian) in D.C. but can't remember the badge. Is this a clone? V/r Shawn


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## facair55

Freqman1 said:


> So I took a pic of the bike at the Air and Space museum (Smithsonian) in D.C. but can't remember the badge. Is this a clone? V/r Shawn



My research shows the location of the remaining five Wright Brothers bicycles as stated in the above post (#12). So it's probably a clone. Most of the original bikes were destroyed in the Dayton Flood in 1913.


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## Freqman1

I've seen the ones at Carillon Park and at the Museum of the Air Force. If memory serves the one at the Air and Space Museum in DC had a ND rear hub on it and not the proprietary Wright hub so that bike could very well be bogus. V/r Shawn


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## PhilipJ

I was at the national air and space museum in DC two years ago. The wright bicycle they have on display is not a clone. It is one of the few remaining originals.


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## PhilipJ

I think the Ford museum only has one.


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## Dweber

Are there none known in private hands?


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## partsguy

Dweber said:


> Are there none known in private hands?




There are no known privately-owned Wright bicycles. If another one were to surface, it would be on CNN, Fox, and USA Today. It would be like another Tucker automobile was discovered, or a missing WWI aircraft.


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## partsguy

I wonder, are there any production numbers out there, as to how many they made?


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## pelletman

Freqman1 said:


> So I took a pic of the bike at the Air and Space museum (Smithsonian) in D.C. but can't remember the badge. Is this a clone? V/r Shawn




The bike at the Smithsonian is on loan from The Henry Ford Museum


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## Freqman1

pelletman said:


> The bike at the Smithsonian is on loan from The Henry Ford Museum




I guess that clears up the discrepancy. Maybe if I get a chance this weekend I'll dig up all the photos I've taken of these bikes and start a new post. V/r Shawn


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## PhilipJ

Finding an original Wright bicycle would be a dream come true for me. Along with bicycles (especially TOC bikes) aviation is one of my loves. I'm a private pilot and grew up in a family obsessed with aviation. In particular, the era of aviation prior to WWI is of great interest to me. Growing up the Wright brothers were my heroes.


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## facair55

partsguy said:


> I wonder, are there any production numbers out there, as to how many they made?



From 1896 through 1904 the Wright Brothers produced a "Limited" number of bicycles with no more than several hundred of both brands (St Clair & Van Cleve) combined ever built. Other brands of bicycles were sold and bicycle repair was being done by others hired by the Wrights. So.....not many Wright bicycles survive today since many of the few produced were damaged or destroyed in the 1913 flood with much of the city of Dayton, Ohio.


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## PhilipJ

I know it's not grounded in reality but I like to dream there's a Wright bike out there waiting to be discovered.


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## hoofhearted

*Van Cleve badge on Wright bicycle at 
the Air Force Museum in Riverside, Ohio.

The machine is a girl's specimen, featuring a ''duck'' brake.*


..........  patric


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## hoofhearted




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## carrotsnax

I'm fairly certain this is a photo of an old Orville, Wilbur, and Henry Ford.  Correct me if wrong.


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## hoofhearted

carrotsnax said:


> I'm fairly certain this is a photo of an old Orville, Wilbur, and Henry Ford.  Correct me if wrong.




*Wilbur died in 1912.



 





 *


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## pelletman

Carillion Park Pictures

http://s99.photobucket.com/user/pelletman/library/Carillon Park - Dayton OH Bikes?sort=3&page=1


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## facair55

carrotsnax said:


> I'm fairly certain this is a photo of an old Orville, Wilbur, and Henry Ford.  Correct me if wrong.View attachment 378364



Henry Ford on the left and it looks like Orville Wright on the right, the man in the middle unknown. A great picture!


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## facair55

facair55 said:


> Henry Ford on the left and it looks like Orville Wright on the right, the man in the middle unknown. A great picture!



The bicycle does look like a Wright Brothers bicycle. If it is I stand corrected, this would be the only picture with one of the Wrights standing next to a bicycle they made!


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## filmonger




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## barracuda

James Howard Means, 1896:



*WHEELING AND FLYING *

The slow development of the flying machine in its early stages finds its analogue in that of the bicycle. The admirable wheel of to day is the product of more than eighty years of careful thought and experiment.

The machine has been improved very gradually; most of the modifications have been slight; yet some of the stages have been marked with great distinctness.

The twelve machines here shown in the drawings give a rough outline of the progress made. First we have the wheel of 1816 (Fig 1.) propelled by striking the feet against the ground. This machine represents the parent form involving the great principle of two wheels balanced by the act of turning the forward wheel on a pivot. It was used principally for the purposes of sport, and it is easily seen that it was at its best on down grades.

Looking backward, it seems strange to us that a device so simple as a pair of foot cranks attached to the front axle was not soon adopted, yet the discovery of such simple things sometimes takes years of hard thinking. Columbus was doubtless surprised when the superficial people of his day told him on his return that any sailor might have discovered the distant land, "all one had to do was to sail west." His alleged reply, illustrated by the balancing of the egg, was most appropriate. The inventor of the sewing machine informed the world that all through the centuries the sewing needle had been threaded at the wrong end; no one knows how long it took him to think that out. We do know however, in the case of the wheel, that it took many years to think of putting foot cranks on the front axle.

Mr Porter says that in 1821 Gompertz invented the Hobby Horse shown in Fig 2 and that in 1840 McMillan made a rear driving machine as shown in Fig 3.

He quotes M. de Saunier as saying that the honors of first applying foot cranks to the front axle seem to be evenly divided between Michaux and Lallement, who probably worked independently of each other, the former applying the cranks in 1855 the latter in 1863.

Lallement's machine of 1866 is shown in Fig 4. This was the machine which immediately preceded the velocipede excitement of the late sixties.

Fig 5 shows the improvement made from 1866 to 1869.

Mr Porter says, "In 1871 WHJ Grant proposed the use of rubber pedals ... and he also vulcanized rubber tires into crescent shaped metal rims."

"In 1873 there was produced by Starley, 'the Father of the Bicycle', about the first machine (Fig. 6) embodying most of the features which are found in the modern Ordinary.

The Ordinary was greatly improved in the ten or twelve succeeding years (see Fig. 7), and long distance riding became common, yet the dangers attending the use of the high machine gradually led to the designing of lower wheels, of which types are shown in Figs 8, 9, 10, and 11.

Later came the safety with cushion tires, which was followed at last by the pneumatic Safety of today (Fig. 12) This is a mere outline; the intermediate machines were many.

It is not uncommon for the cyclist, in the first flush of enthusiasm which quickly follows the unpleasantness of taming the steel steed, to remark, "Wheeling is just like flying!" This is true in more ways than one. Let us note the points of resemblance. Both modes of travel are riding upon the air, though in one case a small quantity of air is carried in a bag and in the other the air is unbagged. There are many who believe that in order to travel upon air it is not necessary to put the air in a bag; they not only believe this but they know it has been done. Lilienthal has done it many times, and the Lilienthal machine is to flying what the wheel of 1816 was to pneumatic wheeling. The Lilienthal machine seems likely to lead to important things, yet there are men who say of the inventor, "He cannot fly up he can only fly down, he is a parachutist, a flying squirrel, he has not solved the great problem." True he has not solved it but he has given a partial solution which will place his name on the roll of the immortals.

It is not unlikely that men regarded the wheel of 1816 as some now regard the Lilienthal soarer. They probably said, "This machine will do for coasting down hill, but that is not practical traveling. You cannot climb hills with the thing; it is not of much importance anyhow." But after a while one day a man who thought put cranks on that machine.

Lilienthal flies not only down but also up. His course as a whole is downward, but when under favoring winds he gets energy from beneath he rises. The only reason that his course as a whole is not upward is that he has not yet completed his apparatus for giving constant energy.

That will take time and if the world is to make rapid progress in manflight it must have a much greater confidence in the value and importance of the Lilienthal soarer than it had in the wonderful balancing wheel of 1816. It was a balancing wheel, and the great art of balancing began with it. To learn to wheel one must learn to balance; to learn to fly one must learn to balance. Why not begin now, instead of imitating the human race of the first half of the century which took so many years to get its feet off the ground?


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## filmonger




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## barracuda

On this day in 1903:


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## SimpleMan

carrotsnax said:


> I'm fairly certain this is a photo of an old Orville, Wilbur, and Henry Ford.  Correct me if wrong.View attachment 378364



Henry Ford on the left, Orville Wright on the right and Charles Taylor holding the bike. Charles invented and built the first engine that the Wright's used for motorized flight


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## SimpleMan

Hawthorne Hill...Orville Wright's home in Oakwood, Ohio. My wife and went on a tour of it this fall.


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## WES PINCHOT

WRIGHT BROTHERS (St Clair & Van Cleve) BICYCLES!
THANKS FOR SHARING.
SOOO MANY RESPONSES!


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## Claysgarage

After chasing my family tree, I have discovered I'm a distant cousin of the Wright Brothers. It is also a dream of mine, to find a Wright Brothers bike.


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## Balloonoob

facair55 said:


> I was invited to participate in the 6th annual Wright Brothers Day held on October 5th, 2016, at Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio. This event celebrates how the innovative spirit of the Wright  Brothers  is shown in today’s history and innovations from Wright State and the local area. Because I own an 1897 Wright Era bicycle, they wanted me to display it at the event. The original Wright Brothers bikes are too valuable to bring out. (5 known surviving bicycles made by the Wright Brothers are known to exist) My bike is very close to theirs in appearance. The Wright era bicycle that I brought to the event is an 1897 Gormully & Jeffery Rambler Light Roadster Model 19 built during the height of the bicycle craze in American. The Wright Brothers repaired and sold bicycles similar to this one.  Most of the bicycles of this period had spoon brakes, wooden rims and single tube tires. The coaster brake was in general use by the early 1900’s. My restored Chicago-made bicycle features spear-point reinforcing on the frame and fork, brazed flared tubing, wrap-around head-badge, a reversible seat post, and original cork grips. Originally, it had a rare foot-operated spoon brake mounted on the fork which was removed.  An  Eclipse  coaster brake (patent 1908) was installed early in the bicycle’s history.  Gormully & Jeffery Mfg. Co. (1878-1900) sold its bicycle business and then evolved making the Rambler automobile and then became American Motors Corporation (AMC).
> 
> The two men in the picture are portraying the Wright Brothers. There has never been found a picture of either of the Wright Brothers on a bicycle or standing near a bicycle. Well, I am lucky that I have a depiction of the impossible.
> View attachment 373911



Man - such a cool thread and so many amazing responses. Thanks for starting the thread and sharing the story.  - Nate


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## fordsnake

*Were the Wright brothers first? Not in Brazil*

I’m an expat currently living in Brazil…and here, theres much disagreement about the title of who was "first to fly an airplane."

In Brasil, it's widely believed that Alberto Santos-Dumont, a Brazilian preceded the Wright Brothers in _*demonstrating the first powered, manned controlled aircraf*_*t* in 1906. The Wright Bros didn’t publicly demonstrate their plane's flight until two years later in 1908!

As stated earlier in this thread…the Wright Bros were extremely secretive. tight-knit, working on their airplane the Wright Flyer. These two bachelors lived at home with the wealthy parents. Which in turn allowed them financial support to indulge in their inventions and dedicate themselves to projects and aeronautical experimentations without constraints or money concerns. They kept everything they did close and under wrap. No public displays or announcements. They were meticulous about their ideas and it was important that they first work out any bugs before publicly announcing their creations.

This surreptitious behavior almost cost them the title “the first to fly.”

You see at the turn of the century, there was a worldwide race amongst would-be inventors to become the first to power and manned an aircraft!

Santos-Dumont, a flamboyant Brazilian playboy, also an heir to a wealthy family of coffee producers was living in Paris, building and experimenting with hot air balloons and dirigibles! There are photos of him tying his dirigible to the Effle tower so that he could breakfast at the local Parisian restaurants.

Anyway, Dumont entered an air competition in Paris in 1906. His entry was a winged aircraft powered by an engine. It had two wheels under its carriage, and he controlled and operated the plane in a seated position. His aircraft successfully lifted off and flew about 200 feet and safely landed. This demonstration was held in front of hundreds of spectators who witnessed man's first flight! Thus earning Santos-Dumont the winner of the competition, the talk of the town and the celebrity status as the first man to successfully fly!

However back in the US, the Wright Bros were diligently working on their Flyer,  their noses to the grind stone, continuing to tinker, when they got word of Dumont’s flight! It wasn’t until 1908 that they finally felt ready to reveal and announce their plane. They invited the public and the press to witness their flight. This was two years after Dumont’s documented flight!

So, why wasn’t Dumont credited first to fly? The answer...a photograph!

As mentioned earlier, the Wright Bros were notorious for keeping their projects secretive. On the morning of Dec. 17, 1903, the Wright Bros with the help of 3 assistants took their Flyer out to the beach at Kitty Hawk, N.C. for a test flight. Their plane looked more like a glider, with the pilot laying on his belly. It's interesting that the Wrights with their long experience with bicycles never managed to incorporate wheels on their plane. Which meant for their plane to get aloft, they had to devise a long rail and the Flyer was catapulted into the air! So it didn't lift off by itself, but it did fly for about 200 ft. Fortunately on that day, Orville Wright's had the foresight to bring along a camera and gave it to a young man who had never seen a camera before. Orville instructed the young man on how to operate the camera and to document a historical moment, including preserving a record for any future patent claims.

Although Santos-Dumont had publicly demonstrated his flight capabilities to hundreds of witnesses and winning that flight competition in 1906...it was that darned photograph of the Wright's test flight taken 3 years earlier in 1903 that secured the Wright's as the true winners!


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## hoofhearted




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## cyclingday

Although he did not power up his gliders, Otto Lilienthal most certainly proved that Human controlled flight was possible.
He also demonstrated how dangerous it could be when he lost his life in a crash.


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## cyclingday

The Demoiselle was my favorite of all the early flying machines.
Alberto Santos Dumont was way ahead in practical design.








I built a flying model when I was a kid, and always dreamed of building a full scale replica.
Can you imagine what it was like flying over Paris in 1907?
Talk about scoring on the French babes.
Sure, I’ll give you a ride in my flying machine.
You’d be the Man!


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## Goldenrod

It should be noted that without the bicycle development in technology early autos would not have been possible.


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## bikebozo

There was a wright cycle in an airplane museum here in central Florida,  the museum closed , all the items have been in storage over 30 years , the museum is now a church of some sort , yes the cycle I am writing about is authentic , real ,correct , whatever you want to call it , it had 1-inch pitch chain on it , not skip tooth , so it might be flubbed up ,


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## barracuda

Bicycle museum shows off rare finds of renown — Ozarks Alive
					

James Allen owns and operates Pedalers Bicycle Museum in Springfield, giving visitors the chance to see bicycles of many time periods and styles.  James Allen has spent much of his life going in circles -- while perched atop an old-fashioned, big-front-wheel bicycle, that is.For more than 30 years,




					ozarksalive.com


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## Archie Sturmer

I noticed the Fauber chain ring sprockets in a couple of the pictures; by the position or orientation of the cranks, it looks like the same version of the 3-arm sprocket, with the drive pins in one of the 3-arms.
I had thought that that was a later design; perhaps two of the 1911 or later bicycles.


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## dnc1

barracuda said:


> Bicycle museum shows off rare finds of renown — Ozarks Alive
> 
> 
> James Allen owns and operates Pedalers Bicycle Museum in Springfield, giving visitors the chance to see bicycles of many time periods and styles.  James Allen has spent much of his life going in circles -- while perched atop an old-fashioned, big-front-wheel bicycle, that is.For more than 30 years,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ozarksalive.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1368997



Great link, thanks for sharing.


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## gkeep

Great stuff in this thread. Love all this aviation history. Way back in 1869 here was Frederick Marriot who flew a steam powered dirigible in the bay area in an east bay park, maybe in Oakland or Berkeley area. http://www.twainquotes.com/marriott.html.






Seeing this craft demonstrated inspired then 10 year old John Montgomery who studied engineering at Santa Clara College. At 25 he built and flew a gull winged glider in 1886. https://www.earlyaviators.com/emontgom.htm. He died in a glider crash in San Jose in 1911. There is a great exhibit at the Hiller Aviation Museum in San Carlos on this pioneers. 


			https://www.suttercounty.org/assets/pdf/Complete_Genius_Display.pdf.
		

_On August 28, 1883, at Otay Mesa near San Diego, California, a manned glider left the surface of the Earth and soared in a stable, controlled flight. At the controls was John Joseph Montgomery, age 25, who had designed and built the fragile craft. After the launching, John and his brother James, who had helped launch the glider, paced off the distance of the flight as 600 feet. The 1883 flight of Montgomery’s glider was the first manned, controlled flight of a heavier-than- air machine in history, according to the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics._


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## bricycle

gkeep said:


> Great stuff in this thread. Love all this aviation history. Way back in 1869 here was Frederick Marriot who flew a steam powered dirigible in the bay area in an east bay park, maybe in Oakland or Berkeley area. http://www.twainquotes.com/marriott.html.
> View attachment 1370041
> 
> 
> Seeing this craft demonstrated inspired then 10 year old John Montgomery who studied engineering at Santa Clara College. At 25 he built and flew a gull winged glider in 1886. https://www.earlyaviators.com/emontgom.htm. He died in a glider crash in San Jose in 1911. There is a great exhibit at the Hiller Aviation Museum in San Carlos on this pioneers.
> 
> 
> https://www.suttercounty.org/assets/pdf/Complete_Genius_Display.pdf.
> 
> 
> _On August 28, 1883, at Otay Mesa near San Diego, California, a manned glider left the surface of the Earth and soared in a stable, controlled flight. At the controls was John Joseph Montgomery, age 25, who had designed and built the fragile craft. After the launching, John and his brother James, who had helped launch the glider, paced off the distance of the flight as 600 feet. The 1883 flight of Montgomery’s glider was the first manned, controlled flight of a heavier-than- air machine in history, according to the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics._
> View attachment 1370042



Looks a bit like the Magikist  lips


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## GiovanniLiCalsi

gkeep said:


> Great stuff in this thread. Love all this aviation history. Way back in 1869 here was Frederick Marriot who flew a steam powered dirigible in the bay area in an east bay park, maybe in Oakland or Berkeley area. http://www.twainquotes.com/marriott.html.
> View attachment 1370041
> 
> 
> Seeing this craft demonstrated inspired then 10 year old John Montgomery who studied engineering at Santa Clara College. At 25 he built and flew a gull winged glider in 1886. https://www.earlyaviators.com/emontgom.htm. He died in a glider crash in San Jose in 1911. There is a great exhibit at the Hiller Aviation Museum in San Carlos on this pioneers.
> 
> 
> https://www.suttercounty.org/assets/pdf/Complete_Genius_Display.pdf.
> 
> 
> _On August 28, 1883, at Otay Mesa near San Diego, California, a manned glider left the surface of the Earth and soared in a stable, controlled flight. At the controls was John Joseph Montgomery, age 25, who had designed and built the fragile craft. After the launching, John and his brother James, who had helped launch the glider, paced off the distance of the flight as 600 feet. The 1883 flight of Montgomery’s glider was the first manned, controlled flight of a heavier-than- air machine in history, according to the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics._
> View attachment 1370042



Fred Marriott’s real name was Frederico Marrotti. He was a Sicilian. A friend of mine new him, as a young child.


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## dnc1

Here's probably the most informative article I've read on the subject.
Being English,  I feel like I have to mention George Cayley.....



			FIRST FLYERS -- They're not who you think ~Aviation Answer-Man
		


......interesting perspective on the Wright Brothers impeding American aviation advancement.

They made some great bicycles though!


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## SKPC

Good read, thank-you D.  The old saying comes to mind: "believe none of what you hear and 1/2 of what you see".  Misinformation has been and still is predominantly intact in this country.   Take for example, the question of when the Americas were 1st populated by humans.  Much information is out there challenging the assumption it is 15,000 years or so, but not so fast!   A very good read here is "American Dawn" that smashes this guess to pieces, perhaps by as much as 200,000 years!   That is a big difference...





						American Dawn: Louis Brennan: Amazon.com: Books
					

American Dawn [Louis Brennan] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. American Dawn



					www.amazon.com
				



     It would be interesting to have a thread on the Bicycle Patent battles that were fiercely lawyered-up by the big guns of the day such as Columbia Pope.


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## dnc1

SKPC said:


> Good read, thank-you D.  The old saying comes to mind: "believe none of what you hear and 1/2 of what you see".  Misinformation has been and still is predominantly intact in this country.   Take for example, the question of when the Americas were 1st populated by humans.  Much information is out there challenging the assumption it is 15,000 years or so, but not so fast!   A very good read here is "American Dawn" that smashes this guess to pieces, perhaps by as much as 200,000 years!   That is a big difference...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American Dawn: Louis Brennan: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> 
> American Dawn [Louis Brennan] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. American Dawn
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It would be interesting to have a thread on the Bicycle Patent battles that were fiercely lawyered-up by the big guns of the day such as Columbia Pope.



Glad you enjoyed it Pete.
I think your idea re. a new thread on the various "patent wars" is a great idea. 
Personally I love reading about the truss-bridge frame debate amongst other subjects, being the current custodian of one of those French made versions that was designed by monkeys!

It is amazing what is still being discovered about our history as a species; keep an open mind and be prepared to be amazed, every day really is a school day!


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## cyclingday

A few more pics, from the competition.



Alberto Santos Dumont, 
Demoiselle.


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## cyclingday

Another favorite of mine,
Louis Bleriot.



First to fly across the English Channel.









Control was by wing warping.
Similar to the Wright Flyer.


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## 49autocycledeluxe

wonder how many people at the time felt they were just throwing money away and flying machines would never be more than for putting on a flying machine show at the state fair.


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## cyclingday

Not many.
Once the aerodynamic principles of lift over drag were understood, innovation came fast and furious.


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## SoBayRon

Great thread/read. Thanks to all those who have contributed over the years.


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## cyclingday

And it all started with the observation that spherical things had the ability to roll.



Nothing rolls like a ball.


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## Oilit

fordsnake said:


> *Were the Wright brothers first? Not in Brazil*
> 
> I’m an expat currently living in Brazil…and here, theres much disagreement about the title of who was "first to fly an airplane."
> 
> In Brasil, it's widely believed that Alberto Santos-Dumont, a Brazilian preceded the Wright Brothers in _*demonstrating the first powered, manned controlled aircraf*_*t* in 1906. The Wright Bros didn’t publicly demonstrate their plane's flight until two years later in 1908!
> 
> As stated earlier in this thread…the Wright Bros were extremely secretive. tight-knit, working on their airplane the Wright Flyer. These two bachelors lived at home with the wealthy parents. Which in turn allowed them financial support to indulge in their inventions and dedicate themselves to projects and aeronautical experimentations without constraints or money concerns. They kept everything they did close and under wrap. No public displays or announcements. They were meticulous about their ideas and it was important that they first work out any bugs before publicly announcing their creations.
> 
> This surreptitious behavior almost cost them the title “the first to fly.”
> 
> You see at the turn of the century, there was a worldwide race amongst would-be inventors to become the first to power and manned an aircraft!
> 
> Santos-Dumont, a flamboyant Brazilian playboy, also an heir to a wealthy family of coffee producers was living in Paris, building and experimenting with hot air balloons and dirigibles! There are photos of him tying his dirigible to the Effle tower so that he could breakfast at the local Parisian restaurants.
> 
> Anyway, Dumont entered an air competition in Paris in 1906. His entry was a winged aircraft powered by an engine. It had two wheels under its carriage, and he controlled and operated the plane in a seated position. His aircraft successfully lifted off and flew about 200 feet and safely landed. This demonstration was held in front of hundreds of spectators who witnessed man's first flight! Thus earning Santos-Dumont the winner of the competition, the talk of the town and the celebrity status as the first man to successfully fly!
> 
> However back in the US, the Wright Bros were diligently working on their Flyer,  their noses to the grind stone, continuing to tinker, when they got word of Dumont’s flight! It wasn’t until 1908 that they finally felt ready to reveal and announce their plane. They invited the public and the press to witness their flight. This was two years after Dumont’s documented flight!
> 
> So, why wasn’t Dumont credited first to fly? The answer...a photograph!
> 
> As mentioned earlier, the Wright Bros were notorious for keeping their projects secretive. On the morning of Dec. 17, 1903, the Wright Bros with the help of 3 assistants took their Flyer out to the beach at Kitty Hawk, N.C. for a test flight. Their plane looked more like a glider, with the pilot laying on his belly. It's interesting that the Wrights with their long experience with bicycles never managed to incorporate wheels on their plane. Which meant for their plane to get aloft, they had to devise a long rail and the Flyer was catapulted into the air! So it didn't lift off by itself, but it did fly for about 200 ft. Fortunately on that day, Orville Wright's had the foresight to bring along a camera and gave it to a young man who had never seen a camera before. Orville instructed the young man on how to operate the camera and to document a historical moment, including preserving a record for any future patent claims.
> 
> Although Santos-Dumont had publicly demonstrated his flight capabilities to hundreds of witnesses and winning that flight competition in 1906...it was that darned photograph of the Wright's test flight taken 3 years earlier in 1903 that secured the Wright's as the true winners!



A lot of it depends on definition. My understanding is that Santos-Dumont made the first heavier than air flight, but his craft was controlled only in the sense that it was stable. It couldn't turn - it took off, flew and landed in a straight line. The big advance that the Wright brothers made was in using wing warping to bank a plane into a turn, allowing it to be controlled in the sense that you could change direction. This was supposedly inspired by the way bicycles bank into a turn. 
It's similar to the invention of the steam engine. James Watt is universally known as the inventor of the steam engine, but his engine was an improvement on the engine built by Thomas Newcomen, which condensed steam inside a cylinder to create a vacuum under the piston, which was then driven down by atmospheric pressure. Newcomen's engine in turn was an improvement on Thomas Savery's "Miner's Friend", which condensed steam inside a tank to create a vacuum and draw up water.
Watt used steam pressure to drive the piston as well as vacuum (increasing the pressure difference), but his real contribution was to greatly increase the efficiency, which made his engine much more useful than Newcomen's (fuel was expensive, then as now). In the same way, the Wright brothers wing-warping turned an interesting curiosity into a machine with real potential. But the Wright Flyer was unstable and difficult to fly, and they spent their remaining years fighting patent battles while Glen Curtis and others took their idea and ran with it.


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## cyclingday

I wonder what Orville and Wilbur would say, if you could’ve told them, that someday, a piece of their airplane would be the first to fly on Mars?














Oh, yeah!
Keep your fingers crossed.
If this thing works, I think, Da Vinci would’ve been equally impressed.


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