# 1937  Cantilever Frame?



## cyclingday (Jul 15, 2010)

Ok, 
I am currently working on my next project which is an original paint blue and ivory Schwinn cantilever Autocycle.
 I had figured that the bike was an early 39 since the serial number started with the letter A.  The frame has a footed badge which I thought was a little strange, so I pulled off the badge to see if it had always had a footed badge. Well, it had. There was the very distinct outline of the footed badge. Not so unusual since the frame number seemed to be an early 39. Then it donned on me that the serial number is the very small closely spaced type which is more commonly associated with frames built between 1936 and 1938. If we were talking about a straightbar frame I would have no doubt that it was an early 37 based on the footed badge and the early small type serial number. But, since were talking about a cantilever frame, I am very puzzled. Did Schwinn actually start making the cantilever frame design at the begining of 1937?


----------



## aasmitty757 (Jul 15, 2010)

Everything I have read and heard from the experts says that the first year for the cantilever frame was 1938 and the letter A was used in the 38 serial number.


----------



## cyclingday (Jul 16, 2010)

Thanks,

I knew that small type  O to Z was for sure 38  but then when the alphabet started over again in 39 that they switched to the large type format. I have seen the partial list of numbers that have been compiled and it puts small type A50000 to D20000 in 37 which is exactly where my cantilever frames number falls. Very strange?  It really is too bad that they had a fire and all the records were lost, because this one is a real mystery. It just shows how much we still don't know about the dates and times of some of this stuff. The only thing that I can assume, is that they still used the small typeset for awhile in 1939. But, what about the footed badge? that was a 37 feature? Like I said, very strange!


----------



## militarymonark (Jul 16, 2010)

i had an odd canti too, the frame serial said 40 but i was told that the double duty fork or the built in headlight fenders would not have come with the bike there for they were all miss matched, but when i received the 1940 catalog I found that both were available in the catalog in 1940


----------



## Xcelsior (Jul 16, 2010)

*feet*



cyclingday said:


> Thanks,
> 
> I knew that small type  O to Z was for sure 38  but then when the alphabet started over again in 39 that they switched to the large type format. I have seen the partial list of numbers that have been compiled and it puts small type A50000 to D20000 in 37 which is exactly where my cantilever frames number falls. Very strange?  It really is too bad that they had a fire and all the records were lost, because this one is a real mystery. It just shows how much we still don't know about the dates and times of some of this stuff. The only thing that I can assume, is that they still used the small typeset for awhile in 1939. But, what about the footed badge? that was a 37 feature? Like I said, very strange!




I have had plenty of 39 DX with footed badges yet.  And 39 frames could have still been produced in 38 for the 39 sales year.  I have had 39 first year dx frames with 38 dated cranks and 38 motorbikes with 39 style tank strap locations.  I have also seen  Original dated 37 motorbikes with straight down tubes. Anything was possible with transitions between years.


----------



## cyclingday (Jul 16, 2010)

*The Myth buster.*

I know, I love it when someone says, "They didn't do that then" The fact is, if it was still on the shelf then it wasn't making any money. They put everything and anything together to make the sale.

Patrick, your Autocycle was a real eyeopener, because I have no doubt after seeing it that the canti frame and double duty fork were original to each other. The serial number was absolutely from the 1940 year and the two tone red paint scheme on both the frame and fork was a 1940 feature. I will always tell people after seeing your bike, that the double duty fork was absolutely without a doubt available from 1938 thru 1940. The thing that really amazed me was that your frame number was so late 1940 that it could have actually been a 41.

I think that there have been some old entrenched views for a very long time, so when a guru tells you, " No, they didn't do that then", You just have to go BAM! check this little eyeopener out. Not only did they do that then, It came in two tone red. Thank you very much!


----------



## Xcelsior (Jul 17, 2010)

*2 tone red*

View attachment 11035

This is a two tone red DX from 41.  Same paint scheme?


----------



## cyclingday (Jul 17, 2010)

Yep! That's it. Pretty cool huh?
Patricks bike was painted in that scheme. It was a 1940 serial numbered 16 inch small frame 26 inch wheel bike with a locking double duty fork original to eachother in that two tone red paint.
Very unusual combination for sure. One, you don't see many 16 inch frames. Two, you almost never see boys locking double duty forks. And three, Two tone red is pretty scarce. To have all three combinations in one package is pretty damn rare, and may actually be the only such combination that anyone has ever seen. Like I said before, It was a real eye opener.


----------



## Aeropsycho (Jul 19, 2010)

Soooo what  about a serial number list for prewar Schwinns???

Why is it still a secret?

People mention letters and years and throw out all kinds of speculation BUT Why NO LIST???

I have quite a few numbers my self and I sure you all do as well so share?....why is it still a secret!!!

This hording of information kills the hobby!!!

Just like ol Chubby Checker


----------



## cyclingday (Jul 19, 2010)

*Ask and you shall recieve.*

This is a simple and I'm sure very incomplete chart that will kind of get you in the ballpark. But, I have no doubt that it should be taken with a grain of salt.

1928 - 415000 - 424999
1929 - 425000 - 434999
1930 - 435000 - 444999
1931 - 445000 - 459846     Pre 1935 six regular digits, no alphabet
1932 - 459847 - 476999
1933 - 477000 - 522999
1934 - 523000 - 610000
--------------------------------------
1935 - A0001 - K7227       Irregularly stamped large digits
1936 - K7228 - Z9999
--------------------------------------
1936 - A01000 - A49999
1937 - A50000 - D20000    Linear, closely spaced small digits
1938 - O02000 - Z99899
--------------------------------------
1939 - A00100 - C10999
1940 - C11000 - E53499    Large regular spaced digits, 
1941 - E53500 - H99999
1942 - I00100 - I98189      same style as the post war numbers
--------------------------------------

There is a big gap between 37 and 38, so where are all of those bikes?


----------



## TheSaint (Jul 20, 2010)

*Number and Letters*

Ackkkk! Shiver me timbers! 

All tiny A serial number Cantilever frames are 1938

Not all 1938 Cantilever frames have an A 

From what fellow canti pirates have told me, the early 38's have
letters like R, X, T and more. 

I have a 37 cantilever frame with the tiny letter T what it has are two small (1/16" diameter)
welding gas relief holes near the ends of the two small front tubes of the frame.
You can see them clearly. Supposedly? this was the prototype for the catalog pics.

Also all early canti frames have a "smooth" seatpost clamp, meaning looking from top
both sides are symmetrical and the later one have a notch to accommodate the D shaped seatpost clamp bolt to keep it from turning. 

Also the most unusual canti frame I ve seen had a seatpost clamp that you would see
on Schwinn Paramount Road bikes, it was like a donut shape, very clean and precise looking. To this day the guy who owns this frame denies that I ever saw that!!
Pirates I say, Pirates!

Bob U, Timothy B, Scott Webb are all experts on this subject and should be interrogated for your own prudent research. I may have to go into a Witness Protection Program for revealing all of the above. 

Ackkkkk! Dont quote me on this! Please BURN after reading this! Delete this thread!
Run Forest Run!

TheSaint of Redondo

PS Mister Day! Can you send me a pic of your TWO Toned RED CAnTi that you are talkikng about? I would love to see it!!


----------



## cyclingday (Jul 20, 2010)

Ok,
 Now were talking. 
 The Saint has swooped in from above with some information that I can use.
 Thank you very much for the enlightenment.
 My frame does have the smooth seatpost clamp that you mentioned, but it does         not have the gas relief holes. 
You must have purchased Aarons frame, or else there are two prototype frames floating around.  

Unfortunately, I purchased Patricks frame and fork for the fork only, so I have since sold off the frame and Mister U. has the fork for an application of his mastery. The evidence of its existance lives within Patrick and myself. Mister U. saw it together as well, so he can vouch for its authenticity.

I think that all of this cantilever cloak and dagger stuff could make a good subject for Dan Browns next book. He could call it, "The Canti Code"


----------



## chitown (Jul 20, 2010)

View attachment 11159View attachment 11160

Not sure if this is relevant but I thought it looked neat and I like sharing.


----------



## cyclingday (Jul 20, 2010)

Wow!

 Seeing that frame in the two dimensional format really makes you appreciate what a beautiful design it really is.  

Thanks for sharing that.

  I would love to print a Tee shirt with that graphic on it.


----------



## chitown (Jul 20, 2010)

You can download the PDF from google patents. Should be higher resolution than the jpeg I made from the PDF.


http://www.google.com/patents/about...inm_is=0&as_miny_is=&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is=


----------

