# Trying to identify vintage road bike



## dangerousleigh (Mar 26, 2020)

I am trying to identify the make model and year of this bicycle.  Any information is appreciated.  Thanks.  












Appreciate any information you can provide.  Thanks


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## bulldog1935 (Mar 26, 2020)

note that the fork tube has been bent in a forward collision. 
Stamped lugs and dropouts. 
Interesting it has a single (round) brazed boss for a shifter. 
Best guess a city bike that had its cockpit swapped along the way - can you get an accurate (to 0.1") diameter measurement on the exposed stem?  That will tell us French or Italian...


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## juvela (Mar 26, 2020)

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we are in the United Kingdom here.

no later than the 1950s and likely a bit earlier.

the integral headset appears to be by Brampton.  take care should you have occasion to open it up. may be of the floating U-race design which employs 1/8" balls.

the cast in numbers on the bottom bracket shell should be of help, not a serial.

there is likely a serial there somewhere if you check the outer faces of the dropouts, the seat lug and the sides of the seat tube.  the respray is thick in spots and may be doing a good job of covering it up.

slightly odd there be no eyelets bow or stern.  but since someone has excised the gear hanger perhaps they excised these as well...

are you able to read the markings on the backside of the crankarms?

one possibility which comes to mind is Claud Butler, but only a wild guess.

@dnc1 should be able to contribute substantively...

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## bulldog1935 (Mar 26, 2020)

ok, could be a round Cyclo boss, and maybe had a "suicide" front shifter - but I'd expect a lamp boss on the right front fork.
And yes, looking again, it's too tall for a city bike frame.


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## dangerousleigh (Mar 26, 2020)

I believe the stem quill to measure 22.2 and the handlbar clamp is a 22.0


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## juvela (Mar 26, 2020)

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disassembly of headset would provide opportunity to examine steerer

four bits of information which may be there: 

a)   original finish

b)   serial

c)   tubing maker mark

d)   thread: 24TPI or 26TPI

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are head emblem fastener holes present?  any evidence of them being filled in?

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## juvela (Mar 31, 2020)

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correction -

did a spot of checking and it appears headset locknut is a match for the one on the model of headset seen on the right side of this advert from the Thomas D. Cross & Sons Ltd company -





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absence of mudgurad eyelets and lamp boss -

there was a bit of a fad amongst young enthusiasts in the early 1970's of removing braze-ons when they got hold of an older frame.  done to make them fit in with the fashion of the day.  this trend changed beginning in the middle of the decade as they gradually made a comeback. watching these trends is a bit like observing hairstyles and skirt lengths...

even if someone had removed these bits it does not explain why they left the top tube housing stops and the pump peg.  ...just speculation...

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brakes -

when one notes the wraparound springs on these Weinmann calipers (model 730?) they might be early enough for the bike.  later versions had cast-in spring stops on the backside of the caliper arms.  however, the housing stops on the top tube are on the left side and Weinmann brakes pull from the (viewer's) right.  checked GB and Phillips whose sidepulls also pull from the right.  Gerry Burgess's first cycle products launched in 1945.

frames's apparent era makes the Resilion brake a possibility for what the maker intended.

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this photo shows one model of Cyclo of England chainstay gear hanger.  Simplex produced chainstay gear hangers of this pattern as well.  not a match for the remains of our subject hanger.  IIRC there was at least one other pattern from the manufacturer...





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fittings note -

probably unwise to place too much weight on the presence/absence of any fittings as it it entirely possible that the original owner purchased it as a bare frameset and built it up on their own...

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## 1951 C.W.S (Apr 1, 2020)

British built 1960-70s
definetly after the takeover in 1960


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## juvela (Apr 1, 2020)

1951 C.W.S said:


> British built 1960-70s
> definetly after the takeover in 1960




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Thank you so much for this helpful information!   

That gets it now well sorted.

One learns new nuggets with each visit to thecabe.   


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## 1951 C.W.S (Apr 1, 2020)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> 
> Thank you so much for this helpful information!
> ...



No problem always happy to help when i can 
( I agree ,always learning!)


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