# Junk Sale Find



## blu_bastian (May 21, 2016)

My son bought this bike for me at a junk sale this weekend. The badge says Wyeth Standard Hardware & Mfg co, St. Joseph, MO. The serial number is either 43212 or H3212. I'd appreciate any information or comments in general. I do realize it's in rough shape but still a cool find.
Thanks


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## robertc (May 21, 2016)

Your son did good. I wouldn't say rough shape, I would say a good candidate for a clean up. I think you will be surprised to see what a little elbow grease will do to bring out that paint. You have the makings of a good pre-war build. Sure it's missing parts but that's the fun of this hobby. Good luck.
Robert


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## blu_bastian (May 22, 2016)

I usually pick up the balloon tire bikes and tank bikes from the 40's and 50's. It's fairly easy to figure out the maker and year on those. This one is proving a little more difficult.
The way I decide to approach it is to get on google and search for 1920's bikes with the camelback frame. From that list see how many have this style kickstand. I've never seen that type kickstand before so I assume it's not common. After I find bikes with both those features I'm hoping that I'll find a maker that also used the rain gutter fenders and had a drilled out hole in the front fork rather than the more common dropout type opening.
If there's an easier way let me know!
Of course I might get lucky and someone on here will know exactly what I have.


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## rustjunkie (May 22, 2016)

This side stand was introduced ~1937 from what I've seen, I'm thinking it was added to the bike.


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## blu_bastian (May 22, 2016)

rustjunkie said:


> This side stand was introduced ~1937 from what I've seen, I'm thinking it was added to the bike.



Thanks for the info but now I have to rethink my plan! I did a quick search and found that Eldon Henderson patent a flip up side kickstand in 1926 but it is not like the one on this bike.


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## juanitasmith13 (May 22, 2016)

*OK, so did you Google your hardware company name; and, learn anything? 
*Go to our site upper banner and pick 'Forums'; go to bottom forum in list... 'Restoration tips'; Go to 'Sprocket compilation...'. There I see Rollfast [1920s]; early Hawthorne [? maybe didn't remember the right H... word]; early New World [which was part of Schwinn]. Your sprocket is not a latter Schwinn as it is 'flat' [the dress side of latter Schwinn sprockets was 'raised' in the center from the sprocket tooth area]...
*Pre-War side kick stands were usually 'add-ons'.
*The seat post clamp bolt area... Are the seat post upper rear stays welded to the seat post... or bolted there by the clamp screw [bolt]. To bolt them there, not welded, was an early Shelby thing. Maybe other, but Shelby for sure did that...
* Come on gang... what do ya'll see???


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## juanitasmith13 (May 22, 2016)

*OK, so did you Google your hardware company name; and, learn anything? 
*Go to our site upper banner and pick 'Forums'; go to bottom forum in list... 'Restoration tips'; Go to 'Sprocket compilation...'. There I see Rollfast [1920s]; early Hawthorne [? maybe didn't remember the right H... word]; early New World [which was part of Schwinn]. Your sprocket is not a latter Schwinn as it is 'flat' [the dress side of latter Schwinn sprockets was 'raised' in the center from the sprocket tooth area]...
*Pre-War side kick stands were usually 'add-ons'.
*The seat post clamp bolt area... Are the seat post upper rear stays welded to the seat post... or bolted there by the clamp screw [bolt]. To bolt them there, not welded, was an early Shelby thing. Maybe other, but Shelby for sure did that...
* Come on gang... what do ya'll see???


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## blu_bastian (May 22, 2016)

juanitasmith13 said:


> *OK, so did you Google your hardware company name; and, learn anything?
> *Go to our site upper banner and pick 'Forums'; go to bottom forum in list... 'Restoration tips'; Go to 'Sprocket compilation...'. There I see Rollfast [1920s]; early Hawthorne [? maybe didn't remember the right H... word]; early New World [which was part of Schwinn]. Your sprocket is not a latter Schwinn as it is 'flat' [the dress side of latter Schwinn sprockets was 'raised' in the center from the sprocket tooth area]...
> *Pre-War side kick stands were usually 'add-ons'.
> *The seat post clamp bolt area... Are the seat post upper rear stays welded to the seat post... or bolted there by the clamp screw [bolt]. To bolt them there, not welded, was an early Shelby thing. Maybe other, but Shelby for sure did that...
> * Come on gang... what do ya'll see???




The only bike I've found on search sold by Wyeth Hardware was a 1935 Schwinn Model B-9 Motorbike.
On the restoration board the sprocket matches the one shown as a Schwinn.
I originally started this thread on "All Things Schwinn" but was told that it wasn't a Schwinn.
Here are three pics of the seat post area. I'm still on training wheels so wasn't sure of the area you were talking about.
BTW, thanks for the help here.


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## redline1968 (May 22, 2016)

Schwinn's have vertical badging.  Yours don't .  Most companies would buy bikes from a manufacture and have their badge logo placed on them. Companies like schwinn and Cleveland welding,  Colson  ect. would provide bikes and place what ever badges of the purchasers choosing. The only thing that remains the same is the hole spacing it seems they keep the spacing the same.


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## juanitasmith13 (May 22, 2016)

Blu... You may be on 'training wheels'; but, you are very savvy; you are good at research. The seat stays are welded. The answers to you on the Schwinn page are from folk [like me] whose experience in Schwinn [for the most part] is with models from say 1934 to present. This bike pre-dates that; my opinion: very late 1920s to early 1930s, before 1934... I don't think you've been given any evidence to rule out Schwinn; likewise, I have no evidence to give to you, to say: "it's a Schwinn". The man encouraging you to clean this fella up was good advice. That seat is probably worth more than your son's expenditure; it is 100% restore-able [Start a private conversation with 'rustjunkie'; he knows seats... he may tell you all about yours, it is a clue to your bikes ID; he's super folk and a moderator on the site]. Was hoping, and still may come, was that regulars to this thread with experience in older iron would chime in. I think your bike originally had Steel Clad Wood rims.


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## juanitasmith13 (May 22, 2016)

Try this link in your browser... you may have to log-in after it comes up... http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/whats-your-guess.74402/#post-461060

Also use upper right search box; Click the box for drop-down; click MORE at bottom; use key words Camel back Schwinn; 1930 Camel back Schwinn... etc.


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## Jeff54 (May 23, 2016)

blu_bastian said:


> My son bought this bike for me at a junk sale this weekend. The badge says Wyeth Standard Hardware & Mfg co, St. Joseph, MO. The serial number is either 43212 or H3212. I'd appreciate any information or comments in general. I do realize it's in rough shape but still a cool find.
> Thanks




It would seem that, You can find that Camel back and or variations of size in frames by Schwinn from 1917 too 1933:

It even apears as if you've got the right seat too. super extra bonus!
http://waterfordbikes.com/SchwinnCat/flschwinn_1893_1940/index.html







1925:






1933:


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## Jeff54 (May 23, 2016)

Looking closer through the net in photos and places hosting pre 40's camelback frames and different companies, it's clearly obvious they're difficult to tell the differences.

However, I'm seeing one place in particular where slight unique patterns change..
Right here, that 'A' where the drop bars and seat  post connects, with the fender bracket crossing. There's at least 1 Schwinn, or claimed to be without a badge but same fork.  like yours, there's others that are straighter, some curve inwards more etc.


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## then8j (May 24, 2016)

If your title said something like 'experts needed' or 'help identify' you might get more people looking that could help.....
Just a thought


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (May 24, 2016)

redline1968 said:


> Schwinn's have vertical badging.  Yours don't .  Most companies would buy bikes from a manufacture and have their badge logo placed on them. Companies like schwinn and Cleveland welding,  Colson  ect. would provide bikes and place what ever badges of the purchasers choosing. The only thing that remains the same is the hole spacing it seems they keep the spacing the same.



Not true....a few department store schwinns have this style of horizontal attachment.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Jeff54 (May 24, 2016)

Here's one that's Badged, Schwinn 'New World'  top and bottom screws. I can not see any differences other than sweetheart sprocket and red, verses blue and it looks like the same paint scheme.  right here inside the cabe albeit, nobody figured out its age too. :

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/au...do-i-have-prewar-camelback.41677/#post-234652


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## barneyguey (Jun 29, 2017)




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## barneyguey (Jun 29, 2017)

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> Not true....a few department store schwinns have this style of horizontal attachment.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk



Maybe lot's of them?


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