# 1941 Cwc Roadmaster (help Me Find The Correct Parts)



## Dave K (Jul 1, 2016)

Picked up this Roadmaster but don't know much about CWC bikes.  Not a ton of information on these bikes on the web (like what equipment they used).  


 



Two closest bikes I have found are these

http://bicycletimesmag.com/vintage-velo-1941-roadmaster/

And Slick's (Not badged Roadmaster but still a similar bike)
http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/prewar-speedking-roadmaster-back-from-the-dead.24516/

Not finding any others with the same rack (not that it is a huge deal)





So my questions are is this seat correct for the bike?
http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/rough-mens-seat-w-solid-post.92950/

Would a sliding rail Messenger seat be correct on this bike.  Only seen one photo of a Messenger on a similar bike.

I assume the headlight does not belong and it should have a front load Delta or EA torpedo?

Are the stem and handle bars correct? Any other issues?

Still lots of cleaning left to do but should look nice when all polished up.

Thanks for any help


----------



## mrg (Jul 1, 2016)

Nice bike, by 41 some parts were getting scarce, I have seen alot of parts that didn't seen right on different brands, that rack was used by a few different makers but not a normal CWC rack ( that paint appears pretty close in color tho)so who knows, don't think a sliding rail seat would be correct and if that lite is not embossed Winner it could be correct. good luck


----------



## CrazyDave (Jul 2, 2016)

The light, rack and seat do a little suspect, the rest looks original to me.  Let me see if there are 42 bikes laying around here and see what they got shakin'  I got its twin in the mail yesterday BTW


----------



## oldfart36 (Jul 2, 2016)

I agree, seat and rack.


----------



## Dave K (Jul 2, 2016)

I agree the rack is odd but highly suspect it is original to the bike.  The color match is to good to be an add on rack and if it was a repaint would be hard to have so much patina.


 


Headlight only has Delta embossed in the top so I guess it could be correct, would still like to replace it with a front loader just because it would look better on this bike in my opinion. 

Is this seat correct for this bike?



 




I assume it should have a lucky 7 seat post? 

Thanks for the input.


----------



## Dave K (Jul 2, 2016)

CrazyDave said:


> The light, rack and seat do a little suspect, the rest looks original to me.  Let me see if there are 42 bikes laying around here and see what they got shakin'  I got its twin in the mail yesterday BTW





Dave post up some pictures when you get it unboxed.


----------



## CrazyDave (Jul 2, 2016)

Theres no rack or light, it won't help much! I did some searching though as this bike as you know intrigues me.  I am far from a expert but I can not find a CWC bike with that rack! I might and if I do I will let you know! Been trying to see that light on another CWC bike too..I think there were times most bike manufacturers used whatever they had hence some irregularities to normal thought.  Western Flyer CWC bikes seem to break a lot of rules, as yours may well too.  Hell I dunno Im learning, hoping to help and maybe own that bad puppy one day, OG whatever or not! LOL!  Im thoroughly convinced CWC used the wedge light for a short time too, though most will say not....Lots of specualation, fill up the tires and ride it!


----------



## Dave K (Jul 2, 2016)

Yeah I have not found a single 1941 CWC with this rack ether but seems almost every 41 CWC had something different on it.  A few style racks different headlights etc etc.  Don't think I have seen more then 2 that are exactly the same.  Fun stuff!!!


----------



## AntonyR (Jul 4, 2016)

I haven't posted on here in ages, but what makes you think this is a prewar bike? Everything I see points to early postwar... That rack is an aftermarket accessory. The crown on the fork wasn't available will after they started making these after the war. The supports for the fenders for prewar roadsters were curved, Western Flyers had straight ones. Postwar Roadmasters went to straight ones. The seat is correct.


----------



## CrazyDave (Jul 4, 2016)

AntonyR said:


> I haven't posted on here in ages, but what makes you think this is a prewar bike? Everything I see points to early postwar... That rack is an aftermarket accessory. The crown on the fork wasn't available will after they started making these after the war. The supports for the fenders for prewar roadsters were curved, Western Flyers had straight ones. Postwar Roadmasters went to straight ones. The seat is correct.



your lookin at the red/black/white bike posted, not the one in question I believe...And either way some of the information you give is incorrect.


----------



## Dave K (Jul 4, 2016)

AntonyR said:


> I haven't posted on here in ages, but what makes you think this is a prewar bike? Everything I see points to early postwar... That rack is an aftermarket accessory. The crown on the fork wasn't available will after they started making these after the war. The supports for the fenders for prewar roadsters were curved, Western Flyers had straight ones. Postwar Roadmasters went to straight ones. The seat is correct.





This is my first CWC bike in over 15 years and I know very little about them.  I derived the 1941 date mostly from other similar bikes I have found online and the serial number.  This bike ( http://bicycletimesmag.com/vintage-velo-1941-roadmaster/ )is listed as 1941 and has the same fork but I did not vet the web site and could be incorrectly dated.  My bike has a K serial number that from my understanding puts it at the end of 1941? (I need to double check that it is a K)

As for the rack I understand it is not standard CWC issue but I can't imagine someone buying a lowly Roadmaster then adding an incorrect rack and having it color matched.  Unless CWC sold rattle cans of factory colors and a bike shop painted it to match?   Seems more likely that CWC needed racks and use this style for a short time but who know.  Just glad it has a matching color/patina rack to make it complete.

I will check the serial number and any other details that might help date it later today.

Thanks for the input.


----------



## Dave K (Jul 4, 2016)

AntonyR said:


> I haven't posted on here in ages, but what makes you think this is a prewar bike?




So double checked and it is a K followed by 5 numbers



 

To the best of my understanding of the info RMS37 posted in the "Cleveland Welding S/N Project?" thread ( http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/cleveland-welding-s-n-project.2705/ ) K would indicate 1941 (see below)



RMS37 said:


> *Prewar Serial Numbers*
> Regarding serial numbers, the picture that has emerged to date is that most of the prewar production used a serial number system that begins with a letter and is followed by 5 numbers. It appears that these numbers are sequential and the system starts with “A” and proceeds through “K”. The K serial numbers were used in 1941 and then, instead of moving to “L” the system returned to “A”. It is my opinion that these second series “A” bikes and perhaps the end of the “K” series constitute what would be considered the 1942 model line. This line probably entered production in the fall of 1941 and the “A” serialed bikes were likely made at the tail end of 1941 and into the first few months of 1942.




Am I reading this wrong?  Like I said I don't know anything about CWC bikes but everything I see is pointing to 1941.  Please let me know if I am missing something.


----------



## CrazyDave (Jul 4, 2016)

Im no expert for sure, but I am learning all I can.  Most everyone agrees RMS 37 (Phil) Is/was the expert on CWC related matters.   Until someone gives you some proof otherwise, IMHO that thing is a late model 41 bike!   There were plenty of prewar straight fender braces as well as peaked and non peaked fenders.

TheGoldenGreek Just sold a very nice 45? model with that fork on it.  I wouldnt consider that post war necessarily...

The rack, I gave up on, I can't find it on any CWC bike.  The light..looks a little suspect, couldnt find one on another CWC bike either... but a good look at it around the paint and how time has treated it should tell more of the story...I wish someone who knew more would chime in....


----------



## AntonyR (Jul 11, 2016)

So, Mr Crazy, I got my information wrong? Hmm. As far that old thread about the serial number registry/list, I know a little something about that thread. Probably because it was my idea to start it, with RMS taking control of it because I didn't want to. I've been answering CW questions. on here for years, weeding out misinformation. If you feel that something I stated was untrue or incorrect, please point it out and give a factual reason for why. Otherwise don't just say I'm wrong, because it adds nothing to the conversation.


----------



## AntonyR (Jul 11, 2016)

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/cleveland-welding-s-n-project.2705/


----------



## CrazyDave (Jul 11, 2016)

AntonyR said:


> The supports for the fenders for prewar roadsters were curved, Postwar Roadmasters went to straight ones. The seat is correct.



Plenty of prewar roadsters came with straight fender supports, Roadmaster or otherwise badged. Your a legend in your own mind. lololol


----------



## Dave K (Jul 11, 2016)

...


----------



## CrazyDave (Jul 11, 2016)

Dave K said:


> Wow you started that thread!!   Wow wow wow.  You are a god!!!!!!
> 
> You are a huge big shot around here I am so honored you posted in my lowley thread.   I just not worthy of your greatness.




The expert has spoken, its all wrong man, you might as well sell that frankenbike to me for a healthy profit....


----------



## oldfart36 (Jul 12, 2016)

I'm pretty sure yours is a war time bike! Everyone please keep in mind, some accessories did vary during the war, different sellers, availablility, are only a few of the reasons. Here is one of my POST war CWC Roadmasters, missing headlight, 48-50, as an example for those who think the one above is post war, it's not.


----------



## jacob9795 (Jul 12, 2016)

My CWC V-60 Hawthorne Victory model bike dated 1941-42 and wasn't even offered with a rack in advertisements.  However, it had an aftermarket rack on it. I had 'rider' pedals on it; don't have the bike anymore...


----------



## Boris (Jul 14, 2016)

One thing that I think I know for pretty sure, if I remember correctly (non-committal enough?) is that the tangs, if present, for the dropstand wouldn't be bent outwards on a postwar CW bike, as there was no drop stand to contend with.


----------



## Dave K (Jul 14, 2016)

Tangs are bent outward on this one.

Only real conclusion I can make is that there are no real facts as to how to date CWC bikes.  Seems in the same year they could have had different head lights, forks, rear triangles on the frame, bent or straight fender braces, etc etc.  I am going to assume this bike is a 1941 unless information comes to light to say otherwise.

Got the paint cleaned up.  Still need a proper seat, rear reflector, front load headlight (bought one but the color was off) a better pair of pedals.  Paint came back better then I thought it would and the bike rides great.



 



I am digging it with blackwalls.  Hopefully have a more comfortable seat soon.


----------



## CrazyDave (Jul 15, 2016)

That one rough seat you pictured could be original, looks a lot like some of mine from that period.   The color on that light could be simply because it was painted white as it was new and used on many bikes, I think most white delta lights do not match the bike perfectly because of this.  Bike looks great man! Glad to see the effort your putting into her, that it surly deserved!  I think your right about old CWC bikes, they like breaking rules and could of came with some differences that are generally thought to be "wrong".   Whatever the case, thats a beautiful bike!


----------



## SeanDude (Jul 31, 2016)

Dave K said:


> So double checked and it is a K followed by 5 numbers
> View attachment 336487
> 
> To the best of my understanding of the info RMS37 posted in the "Cleveland Welding S/N Project?" thread ( http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/cleveland-welding-s-n-project.2705/ ) K would indicate 1941 (see below)
> ...




Here is my roadmaster with "K" serial number. I just picked it up, but I don't know much about it.


----------



## SeanDude (Jul 31, 2016)

SeanDude said:


> Here is my roadmaster with "K" serial number. I just picked it up, but I don't know much about it.View attachment 345531
> 
> View attachment 345532


----------



## Dave K (Jul 31, 2016)

Yours might be a Snyder built bike (sharper bend in the rear wheel stay rather then the more arced CWC frames)  But I have very limited knowledge of these bikes so better let someone who knows more then I do weigh in.


----------



## mrg (Jul 31, 2016)

CWC & 1 yr only fork


----------



## Wayne Adam (Jul 31, 2016)

Here are a few pictures of my 1940 CWC badged as a Fleet Wing. Mine has the springer fork & teacup light. You will also notice that the 1940 was the last year for the straight down tube. This bike is original except for the pedals, so you can see some of the correct parts used. Mine also has the rare optional Delta Seat Light.
                                           Wayne


----------



## halfatruck (Jul 31, 2016)

*This was sent to me by Phil a while back, can't tell if yours has the CW symbol or not from your photos...."The key to dating your bike is the Cw symbol stamped after the end of the serial number. CWC ran through the same serial numbers several times from 1935 through 1956 and for postwar bikes the key to dating them is to first recognize the features that define them as postwar frames and then look for the symbol that follows the serial number. Bikes with the Cw stamp were from the second postwar run through the alphabet and the first bikes in this series rarely have the Cw stamp. By the time “D” was reached the suffix stamp became quite commonplace, probably to begin separating the series from the first wartime or postwar “D” seriated bikes. My best data-modeled estimate is that the Cw series was produced from 1947 through 1949. The exact transition from the first series to the second series is still debatable so I have slid the scale a bit several times to try to align it with actual bikes, ads, and other factors to come up with the most likely scenario. The second postwar serial number series bikes were produced with serial numbers ranging from A00001 through J99999, assumedly in sequence. A bike with a “D” serial number would, following this logic, have a build date in approximately mid 1948." *


----------

