# Its war !!!



## vincev

It seems like every so often the war between Schwinn lovers and haters erupts.Is there any brand that we can all hate together??Maybe Ross 10 speeds???What bike do you totally dislike??


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## THE STIG

never going to change
...........the Dodge and Ford guys don't get it either


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## rollfaster

No one will ever be completely happy. It's just the way that it is, and we won't ever change it.


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## ivrjhnsn

You can all hate Iver Johnson bikes....I won't mind


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## syclesavage

Hate all that ya want and whatever bikes you don't want or hate just send to me.


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## Robertriley

I'm with IJ and Savage.  Please hate ALL prewar tank bikes.  When the market drops, I'll buy then all!


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## juanitasmith13

THE STIG said:


> never going to change
> ...........the Dodge and Ford guys don't get it either



"When better cars are built... Buick will build them." [For speed, try a Pontiac or Olds? And a 4 door Camry with a V-6 takes you in the 1/4 mile [I was in a 400 HP SSR]!


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## momo608

I don't know if it's worthy of hatred but AMF bikes look to be the some of worst quality bikes out there. It seems that everything AMF took over took a big hit on quality. AMF Harley's are considered to be the worst Harley's ever. When it comes to Schwinn's, I think it's more about envy than hatred. The hatred is the by product of the envy.


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## Balloontyre

Schwinns are easy to like there are literally millions of them, very well cataloged making easy research and fuel for arguing your Aug 1st 1964 10:31 AM built, one of 1,000,000 that year, is correct in its pea green color.


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## bikewhorder

Robertriley said:


> I'm with IJ and Savage.  Please hate ALL prewar tank bikes.  When the market drops, I'll buy then all!




But you're already buying them all!?!?!


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## scooter_trasher

momo608 said:


> I don't know if it's worthy of hatred but AMF bikes look to be the some of worst quality bikes out there. It seems that everything AMF took over took a big hit on quality. AMF Harley's are considered to be the worst Harley's ever. When it comes to Schwinn's, I think it's more about envy than hatred. The hatred is the by product of the envy.



You don't know much about Harleys , do you


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## bikewhorder

This new forum has me wondering why I hate Schwinns so much.  I thought maybe it was because I came of age in the mid 80's at a time when Schwinn bikes were total schit. They prettty much missed the boat with BMX and then their attempts at making a Mt. bike were embarrassing. They redeemed themselves with the Homegrown Yeti partnership but it wasn't enough. I think it was just burned into my brain at an impressionable age and I can't undo it.  It doesn't explain why I love Huffys and Columbias now though.


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## sfhschwinn

Maybe we can agree on hating all walmart and big box store bikes


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## bricycle

Feel free to hate Keating bikes.  (ps; I'm looking for one)


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## Balloontyre

I applaud Schwinn, phenomenal business, partnerships, good product, neat designs, cult following etc. 

The disposition of the enthusiasts is a different subject. Crazy dialog. ..have you ever listened to the jibber jabber of a group of Muscle bike 
collectors?


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## Jarod24

Robertriley said:


> I'm with IJ and Savage.  Please hate ALL prewar tank bikes.  When the market drops, I'll buy then all!



If everyone hated them I bet you wouldn't want them half as bad.


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## momo608

scooter_trasher said:


> You don't know much about Harleys , do you




Hash it out with Harley guys, "frankly my dear I don't give a damn"

. 
In 1969, American Machine and Foundry (AMF) bought the company, streamlined production, and slashed the workforce. This tactic resulted in a labor strike and lower-quality bikes.[6] The bikes were expensive and inferior in performance, handling, and quality to Japanese motorcycles. Sales and quality declined, and the company almost went bankrupt.[6] The "Harley-Davidson" name was mocked as "Hardly Ableson", "Hardly Driveable," and "Hogly Ferguson",[55][56] and the nickname "Hog" became pejorative.[


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson


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## Robertriley

Jarod24 said:


> If everyone hated them I bet you wouldn't want them half as bad.



I like the style, i can give a damn if someone likes what I have


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## cyclonecoaster.com

_*I have always believed that a Schwinn may not the best bike - but it is the best known bicycle - Ride ANY brand bicycle & you'll always hear someone comment " look at that old Schwinn " .... PLUS Schwinn is probably the easiest to find parts for & to sell ... Schwinn can't be that bad ... look how many were sold & how many remain ... that must say something about Schwinn quality ... *_

_*If you don't like them - move on & let the people enjoy the Schwinn bicycles without you ....  *_

_*just my 2 cents ... Ride Vintage  *_


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## bricycle

vincev said:


> It seems like every so often the war between Schwinn lovers and haters erupts.Is there any brand that we can all hate together??Maybe Ross 10 speeds???What bike do you totally dislike??




...It's not War... It's a "Police Action".....


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## vincev

I WANT A SPECIAL SECTION FOR CHEETO BIKES!!!!


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## fordmike65

vincev said:


> I WANT A SPECIAL SECTION FOR CHEETO BIKES!!!!




HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
(About the same thing as a Schwinn Lightweight section, right?)


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## TheDXjedi

I like my schwinns but I have respect and admiration for all vintage bikes.


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## Freqman1

Man I can't wait to see all the super, ultra cool Varsitys, Contis and LeTours! Now where is the sarcastic font? I hope Scott S. gets a section for lightweight Huffmans! V/r Shawn


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## Schwinn499

fordmike65 said:


> HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!
> (About the same thing as a Schwinn Lightweight section, right?)







Friendly neighborhood SchwinnMike65 waving to the neighbors.


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## vincev

I have to admit.I have my wife and mine original Varsity's from 1969.They will never be collectible but I will never sell them  either.They have sentimental value to me. Compared to real road bikes they fail badly.I have some Paramounts that are OK but nothing compared to European upper class road bike.The country was flooded with cheap ,fast selling 'road bikes" and America bought them due to heavy advertising as the best thing to come along for bikes.I know Schwinn bikes are not really considered highly on "Bike Forums" which is almost all about road bikes


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## Dale Alan

Freqman1 said:


> Man I can't wait to see all the super, ultra cool Varsitys, Contis and LeTours! Now where is the sarcastic font? I hope Scott S. gets a section for lightweight Huffmans! V/r Shawn



You don't have to look.


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## chitown

I guess this sub should now be called *"All Things Schwinn... except lightweights"*


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## fordmike65

Schwinn499 said:


> Friendly neighborhood SchwinnMike65 waving to the neighbors.




That may be a dirty Schwine, but at least its a Middleweight! My butt still itches from sitting on that thing you call a "bike"! I've taken so many showers since that ride, but the water just doesn't get hot enough to wash away the shame...


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## Dale Alan

This is what all those Schwinn Lightweight haters see when I blow by them.I even unhooked the shifter to keep things fair.


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## TRM

cyclonecoaster.com said:


> _*I have always believed that a Schwinn may not the best bike - but it is the best known bicycle - Ride ANY brand bicycle & you'll always hear someone comment " look at that old Schwinn " *_



This is so true. I can't count the times that I've had people refer to my bikes as Schwinns just because it's vintage and they don't know anything else to call it. And up until I recently built my Convertible Wasp, I didn't even have a ridable vintage Schwinn!


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## Schwinn499

fordmike65 said:


> That may be a dirty Schwine, but at least its a Middleweight! My butt still itches from sitting on that thing you call a "bike"! I've taken so many showers since that ride, but the water just doesn't get hot enough to wash away the shame...



Thats a Lightweight, and thats not why your butts itching cochino..


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## fordmike65

My mistake. Funny... I'm not embarrassed one bit for not knowing


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## Schwinn499

fordmike65 said:


> My mistake. Funny... I'm not embarrassed one bit for not knowing[emoji14]



Well heck, looks like a Stingray with your huge ass on it...easily confused..


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## GTs58

fordmike65 said:


> That may be a dirty Schwine, but at least its a *Middleweight*! My butt still itches from sitting on that thing you call a "bike"! I've taken so many showers since that ride, but the water just doesn't get hot enough to wash away the shame...





That ain't no stinking middleweight!


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## fordmike65

GTs58 said:


> That ain't no stinking middleweight!




It's a Stinking Schwinn!


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## fordmike65

I hope everyone know's what I'm just having fun here. Some of my best friends ride Schwinns. I may not particularly _like _Schwinns but I've learned to tolerate them, making it possible for me to hang out with Cody(Schwinn499)


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## 37fleetwood

Freqman1 said:


> Man I can't wait to see all the super, ultra cool Varsitys, Contis and LeTours! Now where is the sarcastic font? I hope Scott S. gets a section for lightweight Huffmans! V/r Shawn




I want a special section for orange 1974 Huffy Travellers. I don't want to have to sort through all of the other crappy bikes on this site.

but seriously folks, I don't hate Schwinns, I actually have a few. my issue was that there is no need for a special privileged Schwinn lightweight forum (just like there's no real excuse for this section). the existing lightweight section is one of the slowest moving sections on the forum, why the need for further separation? was there just too many J.C. Penny 10 speeds being posted?
to get to the heart of the subject, it's not the Schwinns that's the problem, it's the Schwinn collectors.


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## cyclingday

I agree, in that All things Schwinn is just that, and should have sufficed to be the catch all for all the Schwinn product discussions.
 Now it just dilutes the topics and hurts the activity in both forums.



 "You meet the nicest people on a Schwinn."


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## bikewhorder

The Crappy and Antique Bicycle Exchange.


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## partsguy

AMF. The damned things are cursed!!! EVERY time I end up with one of those, I wonder what sin I committed to be punished by such a fate.

Every single one has lost me time and money, in many ways. Lots of poor quality parts that haven't stood the test of time.

Murray is my second most hated...it's a love-hate relationship. They're beautiful bikes, but the chrome quality sucks eggs. $$$$ to restore even the most basic bicycles. I part them out most of the time.


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## partsguy

Freqman1 said:


> Man I can't wait to see all the super, ultra cool Varsitys, Contis and LeTours! Now where is the sarcastic font? I hope Scott S. gets a section for_ lightweight Huffmans!_ V/r Shawn




Oh NOOO!!!

The thought of late 80's girl's roadbikes in pink, purple, and aqua! I certainly HOPE we've crushed them all!!


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## Schwinn499

Im glad whoever it was that created the Schwinn lighweight section understands its about the bicycles, not the owners. We can all argue till were blue in the face and it will get us nowhere...clearly...just spend 5 minutes in the breakroom. None of that is about bicycles at all so why have that section on a bike forum? Because we all have our own personal interests and opinions, thats why. Why you would want to detour anyone from enjoying the bicycles they like and discussing them in any way shape or form is beyond me. Its supposed to be about old bikes, and Schwinn lightweights are old bikes just like any other, your opinions wont change that. We are ALL privileged to have this forum available to us. Making silly comments that show your true colors of the matter and being condescending about it does not make you right, it makes you look childish. This is all fun and games until we start to offend peoples interests, then it becomes personal. For once, try being selfless and let someone enjoy something that makes them happy especially if it effects you in very little to no way shape or form at all. Thats what we need to promote, im glad the people who run this site understand that simple principal of life.


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## island schwinn

I'm amazed,not to be confused with amused,at the level of opposition to a section that the powers that be obviously thought was a good idea.
whats easier to do? just move past it,or comment and slam someone elses choice in the bikes they collect?
It's simple,in case someone is confused,to just skip this section.I will in the future,because I'm not into lightweight Schwinns.hopefully others who are bothered by it will too.


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## Dale Alan

Schwinn499 said:


> Im glad whoever it was that created the Schwinn lighweight section understands its about the bicycles, not the owners. We can all argue till were blue in the face and it will get us nowhere...clearly...just spend 5 minutes in the breakroom. None of that is about bicycles at all so why have that section on a bike forum? Because we all have our own personal interests and opinions, thats why. Why you would want to detour anyone from enjoying the bicycles they like and discussing them in any way shape or form is beyond me. Its supposed to be about old bikes, and Schwinn lightweights are old bikes just like any other, your opinions wont change that. We are ALL privileged to have this forum available to us. Making silly comments that show your true colors of the matter and being condescending about it does not make you right, it makes you look childish. This is all fun and games until we start to offend peoples interests, then it becomes personal. For once, try being selfless and let someone enjoy something that makes them happy especially if it effects you in very little to no way shape or form at all. Thats what we need to promote, im glad the people who run this site understand that simple principal of life.



+1


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## Freqman1

Schwinn499 said:


> Im glad whoever it was that created the Schwinn lighweight section understands its about the bicycles, not the owners. We can all argue till were blue in the face and it will get us nowhere...clearly...just spend 5 minutes in the breakroom. None of that is about bicycles at all so why have that section on a bike forum? Because we all have our own personal interests and opinions, thats why. Why you would want to detour anyone from enjoying the bicycles they like and discussing them in any way shape or form is beyond me. Its supposed to be about old bikes, and Schwinn lightweights are old bikes just like any other, your opinions wont change that. We are ALL privileged to have this forum available to us. Making silly comments that show your true colors of the matter and being condescending about it does not make you right, it makes you look childish. This is all fun and games until we start to offend peoples interests, then it becomes personal. For once, try being selfless and let someone enjoy something that makes them happy especially if it effects you in very little to no way shape or form at all. Thats what we need to promote, im glad the people who run this site understand that simple principal of life.





-1


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## Dale Alan




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## Dale Alan

Schwinn499 said:


> Im glad whoever it was that created the Schwinn lighweight section understands its about the bicycles, not the owners. We can all argue till were blue in the face and it will get us nowhere...clearly...just spend 5 minutes in the breakroom. None of that is about bicycles at all so why have that section on a bike forum? Because we all have our own personal interests and opinions, thats why. Why you would want to detour anyone from enjoying the bicycles they like and discussing them in any way shape or form is beyond me. Its supposed to be about old bikes, and Schwinn lightweights are old bikes just like any other, your opinions wont change that. We are ALL privileged to have this forum available to us. Making silly comments that show your true colors of the matter and being condescending about it does not make you right, it makes you look childish. This is all fun and games until we start to offend peoples interests, then it becomes personal. For once, try being selfless and let someone enjoy something that makes them happy especially if it effects you in very little to no way shape or form at all. Thats what we need to promote, im glad the people who run this site understand that simple principal of life.



Bump


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## momo608

Schwinn499 said:


> Im glad whoever it was that created the Schwinn lighweight section understands its about the bicycles, not the owners. We can all argue till were blue in the face and it will get us nowhere...clearly...just spend 5 minutes in the breakroom. None of that is about bicycles at all so why have that section on a bike forum? Because we all have our own personal interests and opinions, thats why. Why you would want to detour anyone from enjoying the bicycles they like and discussing them in any way shape or form is beyond me. Its supposed to be about old bikes, and Schwinn lightweights are old bikes just like any other, your opinions wont change that. We are ALL privileged to have this forum available to us. Making silly comments that show your true colors of the matter and being condescending about it does not make you right, it makes you look childish. This is all fun and games until we start to offend peoples interests, then it becomes personal. For once, try being selfless and let someone enjoy something that makes them happy especially if it effects you in very little to no way shape or form at all. Thats what we need to promote, im glad the people who run this site understand that simple principal of life.





We won! The only thing left to do is to make it a great forum


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## momo608

partsguy said:


> AMF. The damned things are cursed!!! EVERY time I end up with one of those, I wonder what sin I committed to be punished by such a fate.
> 
> Every single one has lost me time and money, in many ways. Lots of poor quality parts that haven't stood the test of time.
> 
> Murray is my second most hated...it's a love-hate relationship. They're beautiful bikes, but the chrome quality sucks eggs. $$$$ to restore even the most basic bicycles. I part them out most of the time.




Maybe you need one of these NOS beauties for $17 shipped


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## sfhschwinn

O God its a dreaded positron shifter. grrrrrr. I hate having to rebuild a bike with those. You cant put a standard cable in the shifter it comes with because 1. it wont work and 2. most of the tips are rusted and broken. Those things are pure garbage. I have a small section of a draw dedicated to all the ones I ripped off 10 speeds and replaced with standard shifters and cables before I could sell them. Sometime I get lucky and they work so I leave them on and let the new owner have fun. However, I love the positron cranks that allow you to back pedal without moving the chain, they work as great replacements on tandems and other funky projects.


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## bairdco

I didn't know schwinn made any "lightweights." What does a collegiate weigh, 40lbs? 

I'm not a schwinn fan. With a billion of them out there, I don't understand the exhorbitant prices people charge for them, or the people that pay that much for them.

In my opinion, ya seen one, ya seen 'em all. I pass them up at bike shows. "Gee whiz! Lookit those 30 "rare" aerocycles! I wonder if there's any more phantoms around? I've walked ten feet and only saw 19 of them. Or were those huffys, or Murray's, or one of the other cheap copies of the tired old cantelever design..."

Ooh, and look at that idiot over there, he's got a '38 seatpost clamp bolt on a '39! Who's he trying to fool? 

All seriousness aside, my favorite rider is my '48 DX Klunker, but i don't think of it as a "schwinn," since I only used the frame, and the rest i built up custom. The only reason i used a DX frame, is I got it for 50 bucks.

Now there's a schwinn lightweight forum? I didn't notice.

Schwinn hatred will never go away. But there are a lot of equally ugly, boring bikes out there we could bash. Like Columbias. I hate the rear triangle, that big ugly oval-ly looking hunk of tubing behind the seatpost...


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## Freqman1

I'm not necessarily bashing anything but just couldn't see the logic of creating another thread for Schwinns when the brand is the only one on the CABE with its own separate thread to start with. I own plenty of Schwinns but when I log onto a site called the Classic and Antique Bicycle Exchange and see mid-70s bikes with their own thread it dilutes the quality of the site--to me. Yes, I did see Jim's awesome '39 Paramount but just don't see where this justifies a separate thread. V/r Shawn


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## scooter_trasher

I think they have their own thread, so the serious bike collectors, the ones that prefer children's bikes, especially ones with tanks and trinkets like rocket lights and silly horns and fender ornaments, don't have to look at diamond frame adult bikes, if they are over there it should not bother anyone.


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## partsguy

It *used to be *that 50's and 60's middleweights were entry-level classics. Is it the old road bikes now? Not that it matters to me.

To be honest, I couldn't care less. In my opinion, bashing a bicycle genre because it isn't "old enough" or "stylish enough" is stupid and pointless. I may not care for them, but somebody does. They're choosing to re-build a vintage bicycle, instead of letting it go to the landfill or on a barge to China. For many young people, an old "lightweight" or road bike is a practical way to get a their vintage fix but still have practical, cheap transportation.

Why drive people away from the hobby? There aren't many young people going to swaps, conversing on forums, riding with friends on their vintage bikes, they're all prowling Craigslist.

This hatred reminds me of all the old guys, in their 50s, 60s, and 70s, bad mouthing and trashing young people at a car show, sometimes even barring them from entering, because they choose to rebuild a 1970s or 80's vehicle instead of a Tri-Five Chevy, old Camaro or first gen Mustang. Then they wonder why the vintage car hobby is declining and everyone is worried about why young people don't want their cars or who will get them when they pass on. I see it all the time.

Instead of hating people, be welcoming. I'm neutral on lightweights, and hate BMX bikes, but I say live and let live. Somebody is into them. If you don't want to see something or read something, don't click.


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## THE STIG

we know what the schwinn guys are doing


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## bikewhorder

THE STIG said:


> we know what the schwinn guys are doing




That's childish, and by childish I mean 'efing Hilarious!


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## bikewhorder

I was kind of hoping that the new Schwinn Forum would make make me eat my words and open my eyes to a whole genre of bikes that I never looked twice at before but I'm sorry to say that they still just look like crap bikes to me.  If hating "lightweight" Schwinns puts me in the wrong then I don't want to be right.


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## Tikibar

I've been around long enough to see the bike of disdain today become the collectible darling of tomorrow. Cruisers are a good example. Back when I and my friends were tooling around on muscle bikes, being caught on a cruiser would be akin to wearing wooden clogs to a track meet. Now we love them. Go figure.

While us oldsters are writing off the bikes of the '70s, the hipsters are buying them up as the latest in cool. Like beards, flannel shirts and record albums, those crappy castoff lightweights are having a resurgence.


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## greenephantom

Hilarious! My first "adult" bike was a Ross 10 speed. Can't be hatin' on Ross 10 speeds. Let's all hate on 1980s era Huffy 10 speeds instead, those were some bottom of the barrel machines.
Lightweights are the brave new frontier of Schwinn collecting. Survived in smaller numbers, desirable ones are much harder to find, basic ones are still around in reasonable numbers, actually practical as bikes.
Cheers, Geoff


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## scooter_trasher

greenephantom said:


> Hilarious! My first "adult" bike was a Ross 10 speed. Can't be hatin' on Ross 10 speeds. Let's all hate on 1980s era Huffy 10 speeds instead, those were some bottom of the barrel machines.
> Lightweights are the brave new frontier of Schwinn collecting. Survived in smaller numbers, desirable ones are much harder to find, basic ones are still around in reasonable numbers, actually practical as bikes.
> Cheers, Geoff



Hate is the closest thing to love, I have to have a lot of respect for Huffy for refusing to offshore and sell out their employees, instead choosing to slug it out to the end, against a stacked deck of 50ct labor, tax breaks and little to no tariffs on imports, that their competition enjoyed, keep in mind the absolutely brutal pricing point they needed to build their bikes at to maintain the kind of market share that was required to keep their employees working, not to mention the sacrifices those employees had to make to keep Huffy breathing, gotta love those hold out/ not sell out bikes( CULT CLASSICS), you want wast your time with hate  maybe you should point it toward Capital Hill and the Wall Street puppeteers that seem to be in control of them, they just put a bill on the floor of the Senate giving the president war powers to use our troops anywhere he want's even here against us, that's world wide Marshall law, you all might want to pray it doesn't go through, they haven't been on our side for a very very long time


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## partsguy

scooter_trasher said:


> Hate is the closest thing to love, I have to have a lot of respect for Huffy for refusing to offshore and sell out their employees, instead choosing to slug it out to the end, against a stacked deck of 50ct labor, tax breaks and little to no tariffs on imports, that their competition enjoyed, keep in mind the absolutely brutal pricing point they needed to build their bikes at to maintain the kind of market share that was required to keep their employees working, not to mention the sacrifices those employees had to make to keep Huffy breathing, gotta love those hold out/ not sell out bikes( CULT CLASSICS), you want wast your time with hate  maybe you should point it toward Capital Hill and the Wall Street puppeteers that seem to be in control of them, they just put a bill on the floor of the Senate giving the president war powers to use our troops anywhere he want's even here against us, that's world wide Marshall law, you all might want to pray it doesn't go through, they haven't been on our side for a very very long time




Most people forget, or choose to ignore, the fact that SCHWINN offshored to Taiwan in the late 80s. Huffy kept building bikes in America until the late 90s or early 2000's. They were the last American manufacturer to cave in. Good or bad quality, they had strong principles.


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## scooter_trasher

partsguy said:


> Most people forget, or choose to ignore, the fact that SCHWINN offshored to Taiwan in the late 80s. Huffy kept building bikes in America until the late 90s or early 2000's. They were the last American manufacturer to cave in. Good or bad quality, they had strong principles.



More like the late 70s, that's part of the reason they unionized and went on strike 1980 
from schwinn history on recycle
"Schwinn was selling more than a million bikes per year in the late 1970s, but these were children's bikes. The adult market was going to the competition. In 1980, Schwinn sold 900,000 bicycles (15% of the market). That was the year that the Schwinn workforce unionized. Management had lost touch with the factory floor. Before the end of the year, Schwinn's local 2153 was on strike. Management had stockpiled bikes after unionization and immediately stepped up foreign production when their workforce walked. The strike ended in four months with some modest gains for the workers, but a clear shift in strategy for the company as a whole. Production would not remain long in a place where it would be subject to union control. The new direction was clear when Schwinn called back only 65% of the strikers.

By the middle of 1981, Schwinn had a new plant open and operational in Greenville, Mississippi. Mississippi was a state that was less friendly to unions. This seemed the sole criteria for choosing the Greenville site. Skilled labor was scarce. It was a three hour drive from the Memphis airport. It was 75 miles from the nearest interstate. Parts from Asia took months to get in and out of the plant. Executives didn't want to relocate to Greenville."


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## greenephantom

Someone's taking this a bit too seriously. Feel the love.
Cheers, Geoff


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## scooter_trasher

Cheers


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## scooter_trasher

The cult classic, ultimate in chic step through frame 78 Huffy 




the new Detroit Bikes , The B type


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## momo608

partsguy said:


> Most people forget, or choose to ignore, the fact that SCHWINN offshored to Taiwan in the late 80s. Huffy kept building bikes in America until the late 90s or early 2000's. They were the last American manufacturer to cave in. Good or bad quality, they had strong principles.




The cave in was inevitable for all mass produced bicycles, principles had nothing to do with it. Bicycles are simply too easy to manufacture and this made it very easy for the market to be dominated by low operating cost manufacturers in Asia. Scooter trash points out the unionization of Schwinn in 79 or 80. The UAW thought it was a good idea that the factory workers at Schwinn should make as much money per hour as auto workers in Detroit, how stupid and greedy can you get. This probably did help to kill off the domestic production of Schwinn's sooner rather than later. It's almost a miracle Domestic auto manufactures have survived the wrath of the UAW.  Unions in general have long outlived their usefulness. They falsely take credit for post WW2 American prosperity when much of the worlds manufacturing capabilities were bombed out of existence. We had a free ride for 30 plus years and this allowed the unions to become the greedy power players that sent so much of our manufacturing over seas in the 80's and beyond. Now the unions are for illegal immigration, at what point does it become clear to everyone that unions are for are for unions, the workers are simply forced dues payers for a criminal operation. bit of a rant there but it felt pretty good.


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## rustjunkie

scooter_trasher said:


> the new Detroit Bikes , The B type




Now that's pretty cool, $699 for a bike with a USA made frame 
http://detroitbikes.com/thebikes/


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## bairdco

Wait, after sitting through that history class and the union meeting, I forgot. Which bikes are we supposed to hate?


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## mruiz

I still like my Schwinn,  and some others. The funny situation here for me is I am selling a 1963 Tiger in 9 condition, (cheap), in the for sale area. And I get no interested potential buyers. So I an guessing It doesn't matter, who built it or not. There is very low amount of Folks interested.
In a well built Bicycle. Maybe my problem is I don't do e-bay.


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## 2jakes

bairdco said:


> Wait, after sitting through that history class and the union meeting, I forgot. Which bikes are we supposed to hate?




It’s not so much any specific bike or brand.
Actually, I hate those that refer to all old bikes as a "Peewee Herman”.

And the more I think about it,
it’s more of a pity.
I kinda feel sorry for them,
they don’t know what they’re missing.


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## 37fleetwood

you know what's frustrating? that no matter how many times you try to explain something people just ignore you and make up what they think you're saying.
for me, and I'm kinda the one who started it, it's not about bikes at all, it's about people.
let's go through it once more, but without the bikes.
someone asked for a subforum to one of the slowest forums on the cabe. this made me scratch my head, why would you need a new sub forum for a very slow section? but then I notice what brand they are asking for, and I notice that their is a already a subsection for that brand in the other, more busy section. so I begin to wonder, why would collectors of one brand want their stuff segregated from the rest of us? do they really despise the other brands so much that they want to make sure they can filter the rest of us out?
none of this has anything to do with the merits or demerits of any bike at all, it has to do with people.
so, let's be fair about it. we should have subsections for every specific brand, or no brand specific subsections at all.
that's my opinion, there is no winning or losing, to say that was just childish, I never tried to stop that section, I just posed the question as to whether it was necessary at all. if I wanted I could call people and complain and throw a fit and petition, but that would be just as childish as wanting a brand specific subforum for my brand.
keep your subforum, I really don't care, but ask yourself why you can't just join the rest of the hobby.


----------



## bairdco

How about a forum for camelback Schwinn Speedsters? Them's the only schwinns I like.


----------



## VintageSchwinn.com

Some people just don't like other people.  There's always that.


----------



## vincev

Can we have a sub forum for the Break Room for members that dont want to be associated with other members who use the Break room????


----------



## Schwinn499

Just for the record, I don't despise or have any disdain for any brand of bicycles or the people who collect them. I started my bicycle hobby alone in my garage over ten years ago at 19 years old. That's when I joined everyone who has a love for vintage bicycles. I didn't know then, but once in joined the vintage bicycle community a few years later, I learned being a Schwinn collector gets you marked with a certain stigma the vintage bicycle community has placed upon you, and I accept it, play along, and joke, and kid, but still don't understand its generalization, as it truly does not apply to the way I feel about the bikes, people, or the hobby in general. The good thing about that is I know I will never understand everything and have no desire to. That would take to much time away from working on my bikes. To each his own.


----------



## vincev

I HAVE FIGURED IT OUT!!!! People think Schwinn collectors are elitist because some of their bikes have special size wheels that take special size tires!! That was simple !


----------



## how

vincev said:


> I HAVE FIGURED IT OUT!!!! People think Schwinn collectors are elitist because some of their bikes have special size wheels that take special size tires!! That was simple !



Well i think its different than that. If there is ever a discussion about a Schwinn for sale, there will be comments like, the pedals are wrong, thats not the right seat, but if its a CWC bike or a huffman, people dont say those things.


I think thats why they think Schwinn collectors are haughty.


----------



## 37fleetwood

bairdco said:


> How about a forum for camelback Schwinn Speedsters? Them's the only schwinns I like.
> 
> View attachment 280905
> 
> View attachment 280906




I had one of those.


----------



## how

Uh the Huffman has principle over Schwinn is a crock ,,
Schwinn was broke and unprofitable when they gave in,,
Huffy was profitable and solvent,
then Walmart gave them a kind of ultimatim ..
produce in China or else
they folded and took their profitable  production out of the USA to China.


----------



## partsguy

Do you honestly think they had any other alternative? When the Japanese bikes started moving in, big box stores became the only option. Imagine the laughter if Huffy stiffed K-Mart, Sears, Wal-Mart, and others just to say "hey, we're going back to the small bike shops. go f-yourselves and your made in china crap". Big box stores had their other companies by the nuts and they knew it, Huffy had to go over seas or go out of business entirely.

They really held out for as long as possible.

Schwinn's unprofitability was brought on for many reasons, and was 15 years in the making.


----------



## TRM

bairdco said:


> Wait, after sitting through that history class and the union meeting, I forgot. Which bikes are we supposed to hate?



"It's best to hate the ones that you can't afford, regardless of where they were manufactured or who manufactured them. It's generally a good idea to hate the people who _can_ afford them also. You'll feel much better about yourself."  -Hillary Clinton


----------



## THE STIG

TRM said:


> -Hillary Clinton


----------



## scooter_trasher

If you make a halfway decent living you are a target for offshoring even if your job stays here, workers in silicon valley are learning that and now even Disney
There's something very wrong in this country and the blame goes onto the greedy workers and their representatives. 
Our kids will be so much happier, as at will day labors with no medical or retirement benefits, I'm sure they will look back fondly at our generation for sitting and allowing the powers at be  to destroy this country and it's workers, with trade deals and tax loopholes, and adding insult to injury by shredding the very constitution they swore an oath to protect against all enemies foreign and domestic. 
*Workers sue Disney saying replaced by foreign workers*
_Posted: Jan 25, 2016 11:04 PM EST _ _Updated: Jan 25, 2016 11:12 PM EST _ 

 "Two former Disney workers say they were given 90 days to train their foreign replacements. (Source: Walt Disney World/CNN)
(CNN) - Two former Disney employees have filed class-action lawsuits against the entertainment giant, saying they were illegally replaced by foreign workers.

Leo Perrero and Dena Moore worked information technology jobs at Walt Disney World in Orlando before being laid off last year. The two say they were given 90 days to train their foreign replacements.

In their suit, the two allege if they didn't train their replacements, they would not have received bonuses or severance. Some 300 other workers also lost their jobs.

The lawsuit contends Disney and two global consulting firms illegally replaced U.S. workers with foreigners on high-skilled worker visas. Disney has not responded to the allegations."

_Copyright 2016 CNN. All rights reserved._


----------



## bairdco

Yeah, that's exactly what I intended when I posted that. to be ridiculed by hillary Clinton.  My long-term hatred for all that is schwinn (except for speedsters) derived from my subconscious love affair with the ex first lady. 

It's a love hate relationship that only a Freudian psychoanalysis can help me with. 

Hmm, wait, camelback frames and large hipped women? Tank lights and breasts? Cranks? Oh man, why didn't I see this before.

I don't hate schwinns! I love cuckolded women! What a breakthrough!

This is the best damn thread ever.

On a side note, if I could afford 7k for an original, run of the mill, vintage schwinn, I'd buy a 96 impala ss instead. At least the price on those came down to a reasonable amount since mine got stolen in 2005.

This reply may not have made any sense, but I'm drunk, and trying to keep in the spirit of the joke this thread started out as.

Next someone's gonna compare the 6 million "rare" schwinns out there to the holocaust...


----------



## scooter_trasher

Oh no of the ten bikes in my garage, 5 are Schwinns, 5 are not 
3 lightweights ,4 middleweights, 3 balloons
2 mens , 2 step through , 6 boys
1 prewar, 4 sixties, 4 seventies ,1 from the late 80s or early 90s
I don't which bikes to hate
I think I may be related to Chris Costner Sizemore, or Shirley Mason, is multiple personality disorder hereditary  ?


----------



## W2J

seems there are still some butthurt folks regarding the new section.this thread should be in the breakroom so those who didn't opt in don't have to be subjected to all the negativity this thread has perpetuated.all the warnings I've heard from past and present members is brutally evident in most the comments here.why can't people just grow up and move past things they don't agree with?
I go to many of the rides in southern California and a few in northern California and never hear the negative crap that some spew on here.must be the fact that you can't hide behind your keyboard.would probably be a few good brawls if people talked to other participants the way they do on here.amazing how face to face interaction is much more respectful.hopefully some can overcome their internet attitudes and show a bit more respect for fellow collectors,no matter their brand preference.


----------



## Joe Buffardi

Pre-War bikes
1939 Shelby Eagle girls
1938 BFGoodrich Schwinn
1938 Elgin Special girls
1937 Shelby Moto-Bike
1937 Bluebird
1936 Colson Goodyear
1936 Schwinn Aerocyclette

TOC, Teens, 20s
1922 Iver Johnson Truss Roadster
1919 Excelsior Machine Co. Double Truss Roadster
1896 Columbia Model 41 girls

BMX bikes
1974 Cook Bros. Monoshock replica 26 inch handmade by me
1976 Team Schwinn BMX Chromoly fillet brazed Silvermist metallic only one known
1977 Cycle Pro Foiler BMX
1980 OM Flyer Reynolds tubing


I love bicycles!!!!!


----------



## Dale Alan




----------



## Dale Alan

W2J said:


> seems there are still some butthurt folks regarding the new section.this thread should be in the breakroom so those who didn't opt in don't have to be subjected to all the negativity this thread has perpetuated.all the warnings I've heard from past and present members is brutally evident in most the comments here.why can't people just grow up and move past things they don't agree with?
> I go to many of the rides in southern California and a few in northern California and never hear the negative crap that some spew on here.must be the fact that you can't hide behind your keyboard.would probably be a few good brawls if people talked to other participants the way they do on here.amazing how face to face interaction is much more respectful.hopefully some can overcome their internet attitudes and show a bit more respect for fellow collectors,no matter their brand preference.



Bump


----------



## bairdco

I think everyone needs to relax. The schwinn war is just like every other useless battle between ford folks and chevy lovers, budweiser vs coors, dogs against cats, my dad can beat up your dad...

There's no winners, no one's gonna change their opinion, and you should take it light-heartedly and stay within the boundaries of the joke, instead of getting so carried away that you're typing thru clenched teeth and ready to fight the next guy who bashes your favorite bike.

Schwinn,  for the most part, made quality bikes for a hundred years. Even the haters know that. But that doesn't mean everyone HAS to love them. No other bike brings out people's deepest feelings like a schwinn. It's the bike you love, or the bike you love to hate.

You can argue the "facts," or bring out random analogies to support your argument, or just have fun with it, like I do.

I'm not gonna spit on anyone I see riding a schwinn and enjoying their old bike. I'll ride with you anytime. When it comes down to the real world, and we're all out there pedaling around, everyone gets along. If anyone's ready to get into a fist fight over who's bike is better, it's probably time to go for a long ride by yourself, and remember why you love old bikes in the first place.


----------



## fordmike65

Ok. I honestly don't see what the big deal is. Yes, we already have a Schwinn section and a lightweight section. I'm pretty sure the Schwinn guys don't want to sift through a bunch of threads about what pedals & rear derailer are correct for a '72 Super Sport Le Tour Varsity Breeze when searching for a post about an NOS crossbar speedo. I personally am not into Schwinns and definitely NOT into lightweights, but that doesn't mean that someone who is passionate about them shouldn't have a place to share their projects,new finds & info. From what I've gathered, the Schwinn Bike Forum WAS that place, but everything went to hell over there and these guys no longer have access to the forum or info they themselves posted. How about we think of these poor souls like refugees from a war torn land? They don't wanna bother anyone or change your way of life. They just want to be given a chance to start over & somewhere to call home. No one is forced to look at anything posted here on The Cabe. If you're not interested in these types of bikes, THEN DON"T VISIT THAT SECTION! Not many CABEr's are into custom bikes, tricycles or vintage mountain bikes right? Does that mean that those sections shouldn't be allowed? Not too many mountain bikes popping up until the 80's, correct? For Christ sake, at least these lightweights are 50's-70's! I'm sure with time those that are so passionately opposed to this recent addition will learn to tolerate it, just as I have the entire Schwinn Section. There, I've said what's been on my mind for the past week or so. Have a great day & ride a bike this weekend! (Even if it is a Schwinn Lightweight)Mike


----------



## bikewhorder

fordmike65 said:


> Ok. I honestly don't see what the big deal is. Yes, we already have a Schwinn section and a lightweight section. I'm pretty sure the Schwinn guys don't want to sift through a bunch of threads about what pedals & rear derailer are correct for a '72 Super Sport Le Tour Varsity Breeze when searching for a post about an NOS crossbar speedo. I personally am not into Schwinns and definitely NOT into lightweights, but that doesn't mean that someone who is passionate about them shouldn't have a place to share their projects,new finds & info. From what I've gathered, the Schwinn Bike Forum WAS that place, but everything went to hell over there and these guys no longer have access to the forum or info they themselves posted. How about we think of these poor souls like refugees from a war torn land? They don't wanna bother anyone or change your way of life. They just want to be given a chance to start over & somewhere to call home. No one is forced to look at anything posted here on The Cabe. If you're not interested in these types of bikes, THEN DON"T VISIT THAT SECTION! Not many CABEr's are into custom bikes, tricycles or vintage mountain bikes right? Does that mean that those sections shouldn't be allowed? Not too many mountain bikes popping up until the 80's, correct? For Christ sake, at least these lightweights are 50's-70's! I'm sure with time those that are so passionately opposed to this recent addition will learn to tolerate it, just as I have the entire Schwinn Section. There, I've said what's been on my mind for the past week or so. Have a great day & ride a bike this weekend! Mike




Yes I agree with what you wrote, we need a two state solution to this refugee influx. We should set up a walled camp for them in some wasteland section of the Cabe and strictly monitor their activities.  Glad to hear were on the same page.


----------



## Dale Alan

Mike nailed it,not much to add to that, he pretty much said it all .

Only thing I would like to say is while we(myself included) have these childish arguments we are not the only ones seeing it . Just think of our youth coming here and witnessing there elders acting like this over a bicycle .Maybe they came here to escape the free-for-all of Facebook thinking they could hangout with the older kids and have a mature conversation about bikes, only to see the same thing here. Why scare the future of this hobby off,or worse yet let them think this is the norm ?

We have a 14 year old member with a Firestone 500 he customized.I thought that was pretty cool. Why not stop in and take a look?
http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/firestone-500.85420/


----------



## fordmike65

THE STIG said:


>




Gran Torino. Love that movie


----------



## vincev

bairdco said:


> . If anyone's ready to get into a fist fight over who's bike is better, it's probably time to go for a long ride by yourself, .




I tried the long ride and was chased by a gang of old men on old bikes.I could not tell if it was a Schwinn gang or an "other" gang.


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## vincev

"Get it,its a #*&^*#** Schwinn Lightweight !!!!!".......................


----------



## bairdco

I hope I don't get chased riding a three speed lightweight with a sturmey hub.

One minute you're hauling ass in third, the next, your worn out shifter throws you into nuetral and  It's nuts meet gooseneck.


----------



## Eric Amlie

Just think of what would happen if you were riding your 60 lb. ballooner!


----------



## PCHiggin

sfhschwinn said:


> Maybe we can agree on hating all walmart and big box store bikes



I have an awesome Wal Mart Kent  32" Super Cruiser,more fun to ride than my oldies.I'm even starting to hate old Schwinns,LOL


----------



## sfhschwinn

PCHiggin said:


> I have an awesome Wal Mart Kent  32" Super Cruiser,more fun to ride than my oldies.I'm even starting to hate old Schwinns,LOL



TRAITOR lol


----------



## CrazyDave

i got this pinned! NEXT bikes! You know the extra crappy ones from walmart.... Can't we all hate them unanimously?


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## sfhschwinn

CrazyDave said:


> i got this pinned! NEXT bikes! You know the extra crappy ones from walmart.... Can't we all hate them unanimously?



my brother and I each had 24inch MTB ones as kids. I really liked mine, never had a problem with it for the few years I had it, and when I buy and sell them people generally seem to like them, could it be that they are crappy when they leave walmart because they are not put together correctly? My answer would be yes


----------



## CrazyDave

sfhschwinn said:


> my brother and I each had 24inch MTB ones as kids. I really liked mine, never had a problem with it for the few years I had it, and when I buy and sell them people generally seem to like them, could it be that they are crappy when they leave walmart because they are not put together correctly? My answer would be yes




I cant' believe it, i thought I had this one in the bag.


----------



## videoranger

*



Why would anybody ever make such a totally disgusting P.O.S. WHY!!!!!!!*


----------



## GTs58

videoranger said:


> *Why would anybody ever make such a totally disgusting P.O.S. WHY!!!!!!!*




Why? Because people in this country will buy anything! Does Yugo ring a bell? Look how Chrysler made out when they built the PT Cruiser on the Neon's platform. It doesn't matter what it is, if it's a POS, disfuntional or ugly as hell, people will buy it.


----------



## fordmike65

videoranger said:


> *View attachment 293392
> Why would anybody ever make such a totally disgusting P.O.S. WHY!!!!!!!*






Hey! I was just gonna hit up the Mods to see if they'd add a Next thread section too!


----------



## Intense One

videoranger said:


> *View attachment 293392
> Why would anybody ever make such a totally disgusting P.O.S. WHY!!!!!!!*



Ugly bike and design.....mountain bike wannabe.....good for budget minded rail trail riders.


----------



## SirMike1983

It is not really fair to "hate" any particular bike or brand. You can hate the 'hype' or advertising around a brand. If people are riding the cheaper or less hyped bikes, then you cannot complain. Over the past 10 years or so, we've seen many people riding bikes who previously did not. Many come in as alternative transportation and for health reasons. Some come in with cheaper bikes, but they have to begin somewhere. I say roll with whatever gets people into the hobby and away from the computer or TV.


----------



## Freqman1

fordmike65 said:


> Hey! I was just gonna hit up the Mods to see if they'd add a Next thread section too!







fordmike65 said:


> Hey! I was just gonna hit up the Mods to see if they'd add a Next thread section too!





WTH they added a Schwinn Lightweight section! Personally I think it was done as a joke. V/r Shawn


----------



## Intense One

SirMike1983 said:


> It is not really fair to "hate" any particular bike or brand. You can hate the 'hype' or advertising around a brand. If people are riding the cheaper or less hyped bikes, then you cannot complain. Over the past 10 years or so, we've seen many people riding bikes who previously did not. Many come in as alternative transportation and for health reasons. Some come in with cheaper bikes, but they have to begin somewhere. I say roll with whatever gets people into the hobby and away from the computer or TV.



I agree with getting people onto bikes and into fitness.  The entry level bikes enable many to get a taste of biking then if they like it, move up into a better quality bike that has replaceable parts!


----------



## Saving Tempest

sfhschwinn said:


> my brother and I each had 24inch MTB ones as kids. I really liked mine, never had a problem with it for the few years I had it, and when I buy and sell them people generally seem to like them, could it be that they are crappy when they leave walmart because they are not put together correctly? My answer would be yes




The real problem with the Sierra Key I has was that the bearings were toast faster than my 25 year old Hamilton Beach could do a loaf of bread. The entire bottom bracket bearings and crank, the chainring as well became Redline and that made it to the Western Flyer middleweight I wanted in the first place (but not the one I was looking at all nicely repainted and with new parts, this was a SURPRISE when I got the money for my car sale in 2007 and mom and I learned a lesson from it.

So no, I cannot stand a NEXT, and why should I, if I had the bread I would be on a new Trek Pure S without a doubt.

And it's BLUE. Sits there unsold. All the other Treks are moving out, but it sits there. I even have an over the bar tank design for it with battery, tools, horn and light space, that took me about as little time as Tempest's paint job did in paint (and that came together in MINUTES).


----------



## CrazyDave

Cheap bikes like a "Next" take a toll on the biking community.  People want a entry level bike, so they get one from crap-mart and find it hard to pedal, shifts like crap, poor quality throughout, heavy, etc.,  and end up not biking much and thinking less of our great hobby.  Instead of spending $100 for a POS, if they would buy a older bike made with some quality or a used newer bike that was made well they would ride it more and advance our hobby.  The only good thing about them is they dont last long and will be recycled soon into something worth using!


----------



## Dale Alan

I wonder what the folks riding those bikes like that Next pictured above think of guys riding on their rusty old relics ? Maybe they say the same thing ? Something like...look at that fool,too bad he has to ride that crappy rusty thing that does not even fit him.


----------



## Freqman1

Dale Alan said:


> I wonder what the folks riding those bikes like that Next pictured above think of guys riding on their rusty old relics ? Maybe they say the same thing ? Something like...look at that fool,too bad he has to ride that crappy rusty thing that does not even fit him.




They are thinking "man I'm stupid for buying this POS. I wish I could find me a cool 'ol bike like he has"!  V/r Shawn


----------



## CrazyDave

Freqman1 said:


> They are thinking "man I'm stupid for buying this POS. I wish I could find me a cool 'ol bike like he has"!  V/r Shawn



muwhahahha +1000


----------



## bairdco

My local bike shop asked if I could help out and assemble bikes at walmarts over the xmas season. I worked 2 days, put a crapload of bikes together, then basically quit. 

Most assembly companies don't care if the gears work, the brakes work, wheels are true, etc. 

My conscience wouldn't allow me to work in an environment like that.

But at least there's a hundred or so bikes out there that i built that worked on xmas. After that, they'll fall apart on their own.


----------



## videoranger

Poor quality is bad enough. but a heavy alloy frame with worthless suspension and ugly design ??? Please don't let your loved ones become victims to this perversion of one of the greatest art forms known to mankind. Oh the humanity !!!!


----------



## Spence36

So if there wasn't the Schwinn co what would bikes look like ???


----------



## bairdco

They'd look different. In a good way. Instead of a million copies of that tired old cantilever frame. 

Schwinn straitbars and motorbike frames were pretty basic, plain designs that looked more or less like everyone else's.  The DX got a little more streamlined, but still pretty basic. There's nothing on those frames that stand out compared to the designs of shelby, colson, and, well, just about every other bicycle company in the 40's who put some thought and style nto their designs.

And with that cantilever frame, schwinn created an ugly bike that still exists today, copied by every low rent company that ever existed.

It wasn't until bmx companies in the 70's and 80's started making cruisers that a style shift occurred,  but it didn't last.

Now, the canti frame is still around, with godawful variations on that theme. Newer cruiser frame designs no longer "flow," and are just painful to look at. 

Schwinn shoulda packed it all in and quit the business 50 years ago.


----------



## momo608

Dale Alan said:


> I wonder what the folks riding those bikes like that Next pictured above think of guys riding on their rusty old relics ? Maybe they say the same thing ? Something like...look at that fool,too bad he has to ride that crappy rusty thing that does not even fit him.




I have a few Stingrays, still like them but a lot of the air was let out of my tires when I saw myself video recorded riding one. No more children's bikes for me. 

Can't believe people are still griping about the Schwinn Lightweight section. It appears to me to be holding its own, wish more people who said they wanted it would post more new threads though. Compared to the same titled section on the SBF, I think our threads are more interesting and informative. We have some very knowledgeable people over here.


----------



## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

bairdco said:


> They'd look different. In a good way. Instead of a million copies of that tired old cantilever frame.
> 
> Schwinn straitbars and motorbike frames were pretty basic, plain designs that looked more or less like everyone else's.  The DX got a little more streamlined, but still pretty basic. There's nothing on those frames that stand out compared to the designs of shelby, colson, and, well, just about every other bicycle company in the 40's who put some thought and style nto their designs.
> 
> And with that cantilever frame, schwinn created an ugly bike that still exists today, copied by every low rent company that ever existed.
> 
> It wasn't until bmx companies in the 70's and 80's started making cruisers that a style shift occurred,  but it didn't last.
> 
> Now, the canti frame is still around, with godawful variations on that theme. Newer cruiser frame designs no longer "flow," and are just painful to look at.
> 
> Schwinn shoulda packed it all in and quit the business 50 years ago.



Yer hilarious. ...(rolling my eyes.).. yeah no style whatsoever lol..... trust me...schwinn put a lot of thought into their designs.... Mr Schwinns journals would surprise you... 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Spence36

Funny how those companies had to push there designs to the limit to be competitive and still failed long before Schwinn .. 
And also interesting how over a century later those Schwinn designs are still being copied and sold makes ya wonder ... the deeper question that I asked what would bikes look like without Schwinn co . And how a non  schwinner  is in the Schwinn section just cracks me up ... I have nothing against other brands they are  all beautiful bikes just was curious of thoughts also funny how the first mountain bikes, bmx bikes, beach cruiser were all Schwinn frames . So again without Schwinn what would've happened ??? Just an interesting thought to consider


----------



## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

Spence36 said:


> Funny how those companies had to push there designs to the limit to be competitive and still failed long before Schwinn ..
> And also interesting how over a century later those Schwinn designs are still being copied and sold makes ya wonder ... the deeper question that I asked what would bikes look like without Schwinn co . And how a non  schwinner  is in the Schwinn section just cracks me up ... I have nothing against other brands they are  all beautiful bikes just was curious of thoughts also funny how the first mountain bikes, bmx bikes, beach cruiser were all Schwinn frames . So again without Schwinn what would've happened ??? Just an interesting thought to consider



Yup.... makes you wonder

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## Intense One

Dale Alan said:


> I wonder what the folks riding those bikes like that Next pictured above think of guys riding on their rusty old relics ? Maybe they say the same thing ? Something like...look at that fool,too bad he has to ride that crappy rusty thing that does not even fit him.



They're probably jealous of us riding our rusty gems!


----------



## bairdco

My point is schwinn made a few basic designs and then stuck with them for a hundred years. An early cantilever frame is almost exactly the same then as it is now. Not exactly innovative.

It's like buying a new car, but your only choice is a 2016 model T.


----------



## momo608

bairdco said:


> My point is schwinn made a few basic designs and then stuck with them for a hundred years. An early cantilever frame is almost exactly the same then as it is now. Not exactly innovative.
> 
> It's like buying a new car, but your only choice is a 2016 model T.




The Schwinn company in 2016 exists because of nostalgia, "a sentimental longing or wistful affection for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations". Of course they stick with designs and names that bring people in to relive or imagine the past as they see it. I cannot think of a better testament to the quality and desirable designs that cause this much brand loyalty and devotion all these decades after the fact.

Bicycles have not really changed all that much over the past 100 years. A model T compared to a new car is not a fair comparison to bicycles.


----------



## SirMike1983

These sorts of comparisons are interesting. One would be tempted to say that the vast innovation in automobiles over bicycles stemmed from the much higher demand for automobiles as transportation, but that would be myopic. Look at a place like the Netherlands or China, where bicycle transportation for years was higher than automobile transportation, and you find some of the most traditional bicycles in the world. Innovation in bicycles seems to have focused in the sporting fields rather than in everyday transportation. A utilitarian transport bike in China, the Netherlands, or Denmark is still in that "Model T" phase. A Tour de France competitor's bicycle, or a high performance mountain trail rider's bike is much more modern. Performance mountain bike development is particularly striking from the 1970s to 2000s.


----------



## bairdco

I think it's a pretty good comparison. If we're speaking cruisers, they've basically stayed the same since the 30's. Worse, even.

But, the bicycle itself, no matter who the maker is, is a simple machine without much room for drastic improvements. 

That's the beauty of them. Well, older bikes anyway.I'm still appalled at the massive selection of ugly creations coming out of china.

But don't freak out over my opinions. I own a 48 DX frame I klunker-ized, a 75 speedster I motorized, and they were well built bikes that ride well. I just don't believe schwinns should be elevated to the status they hold when there were so many more beauitiful, aesthetically pleasing bikes out there, that are much rarer, yet don't carry the "prestige" of being a schwinn.

And keeping with the "war" intent of this thread, lightweights? Pffft. A 40lb schwinn collegiate doesn't exactly make me swoon. From 10' away it looks like a free spirit. Big whoop.


----------



## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

*****


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

They stuck with them because they worked...why fix something that's not broken... from a business standpoint it's ingenious. Have a few basic frame platforms and build  those up depending on what the buyer wants. No new tooling, no buying another factory to build a new model ect.. It like the steak house that charges you for just the meat..if you want to add anything like a potato or a sauce it's gonna cost you... brilliant. .. The cantilever frame was ingenious.  Sales of the B6 autocycle can be a testament to that. If it's such a crappie frame, then why has it been copied to death..... A 40s cantilever frame is not pretty much the same as it's wallmart canti Asian cousins... construction and materials are not even remotely close to what schwinn originally used. Apples to oranges ...The Fender Strat comes to mind on this topic. Leo nailed it out of the gate... .same design as at its introduction in 54.. ...it is now one of the most copied guitars out there......just like the wallmart canti, the wallmart off brand strat may sorta have the basic design , but it's only skin deep and that's pushing it... people only copy when something works and works well... sometimes designers nail it and it lasts forever 





  What an ugly bike with its flowing lines....totally barforama 

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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

bairdco said:


> Schwinn straitbars and motorbike frames were pretty basic, plain designs that looked more or less like everyone else's.  The DX got a little more streamlined, but still pretty basic. There's nothing on those frames that stand out compared to the designs of shelby, colson, and, well, just about every other bicycle company in the 40's who put some thought and style nto their designs.



 I can't stop reading this. ....seriously cracks me up... looked more or less like everyone else's?  .... the dx got a little more streamlined? Why, cause they bent a bar? In that case the cantilever is streamlined as fk... I think you have some deep seeded emotional issues with schwinn...Did you want one for xmas only to discover in the morning you got a crappie murray? I don't see the commander frame being copied to death or the airflow frame being outsourced to china....what happened to those companies in the end? The original  cantilever schwinn doesn't need a bunch of bull bolted onto it to be a flowing beautiful design. It holds up naked on its own.... The Elgin bluebird Robin and skylark designs were flops at inception. There is a letter somewhere describing that in detail. The Robin without a tank is plain Jane as it gets! It needs the tank to be anything. Without it, it's just a frame with a crazy bottom tube bend..... The Elgin twin (which I like ) rides like a swaying tree in a hurricane...! You want to talk about a basic platform bike...how many different models could the twin be upgraded to and still rides like poop....like a rubber band with wheels.... sorry but its true.... and talk about pointless novelty  additions with elgins...the zerk fittings serve no practical use.. what? Your going to fill the bottom bracket with grease in hopes that it finds its way the the bearing race?.... understanding the physics and engineering... the basic science behind the cantilever design will help you understand why it has lasted..... its the perfect marriage of functionality and form. Strength and beauty (depending on who made it lol)
I'm not even a cantilever guy! but to say this frame doesn't flow or have lines is absurd. 



Just look at the gentle curve of the bottom tube... sexy as f... nailed it.. the Robin curve is anything but
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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

Another beautiful design copied to death.... copied because it worked. The wayfarer. ..The original is where it's at...just like The Fender Strat and the Schwinn cantilever.... you can't bash on the original manufacturer for crap they are not even making. Are you hating on rayban because someone copies them.. or fender for the numerous imitations?. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery 
The Walmart canti may look like the schwinn canti... but compare them side by side...For example, take this pair of raybans and Hold them up side by side with the gas station counterpart and you will see the difference immediately. In every way .... 
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## Intense One

To some,  a bicycle can be a work of art or a fitness tool...or both.   To me, it is both.  Riding a beauty is the best of both worlds;  riding an ugly, well, it's still great, just leaning more toward the exercise end!   Now, let's get to riding!


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## Intense One

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> Another beautiful design copied to death.... copied because it worked. The original is where it's at...just like The Fender Strat and the Schwinn cantilever.... you can't bash on the original manufacturer for crap they are not even making. Not their fault. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk



Humm.....Ray on a Stingray with RayBans.........WhoRay!


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

And seriously, if you really really want to talk about a frame design that's been copied to death, brought back to life then copied to death again and again forever into infinity .. then this basic frame geometry  is it hands down. Because. ...wait for it.....it works.. form follows function...tried and true  



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## momo608

Has anyone's mind been changed about anything because of this thread? 

I have learned something though. Irrationally biased thought processes are alive and well in the vintage bike collecting hobby, just like in everything else I suppose.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

momo608 said:


> Has anyone's mind been changed about anything because of this thread?
> 
> I have learned something though. Irrationally biased thought processes are alive and well in the vintage bike collecting hobby, just like in everything else I suppose.



I really hope you are not referring to my statements?! Nothing irrational about them

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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

momo608 said:


> Has anyone's mind been changed about anything because of this thread?
> 
> I have learned something though. Irrationally biased thought processes are alive and well in the vintage bike collecting hobby, just like in everything else I suppose.



But you are right....no minds have probably been changed

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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

The schwinn haters are always going to hate... but something you can't deny is that companies quality. .. hell they put their name on everything from bearing cups to grips... tires, rims, hubs, brakes, pedals, cranks and even the bolts!!! Ect ect......no matter where you stand with schwinn you have to give em credit. ...how many things have you built that you will put your name on and stand behind it with a lifetime warranty? .. if it was truly poop and you knew it...why put your name on it for the world to see... they stood behind the quality they delivered. ..hell they even put the name on bearing cages!... schwinn means something. ...Means integrity, means quality... means it will last..and has lasted.. brass tacks,  you ride and old bike ...say a colson,  all the people on the street think it's a schwinn. ...why is that...think about it..

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## SirMike1983

The issue with most of the cruiser frames is not having "beautiful lines", but that they are sorely undersized for many adult riders. I see many bikes on this site with a country mile of seat post sticking up, and/or pictures of people riding knock-kneed. I've repaired bikes with many inches of seat post exposed, and the post bent from being ridden that way. Some of the makers, including Schwinn, did make taller framed variants, and that's a better fit for adults, but they are rarer and often (though not always) just "standard" frames by adult standards, not truly "tall frames".  I actually think many of the "antique" type frames from the 1920s and earlier better fit adults, and given market preferences of the time, that makes some sense.

Some of the Felt and Electra cruisers are actually improvements on these old frames, fit-wise, because they come in taller sizes and have more of a diagonal/stretched fit. People talk a lot about "lines" and production quality, both of which are important in a frame, but I've never been impressed by the fit of many of these old cruisers for an adult rider. I'm 5' 7", which is fairly short today, and I find myself at the top edge of the fit curve for many of these frames. They feel small, even to me.


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## momo608

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> I really hope you are not referring to my statements?! Nothing irrational about them
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk




Of course not. Beauty and collectability is in the eye of the beholder. If we all liked the same thing, it would get boring and much more competitive for the limited supply out there. I was referring to the cheap shots about Schwinn lightweights that some feel compelled to make. The only people truly left out are those that have not found the satisfaction and joy that a serious hobby can bring.


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## tryder

Wish I had brought my dx....nice drop down to Willow Creek Beach....could not resist the photo op...damn hobie knockoffs...


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## bairdco

That's why I love this thread. You're not gonna find a bunch of people arguing Colson vs Shelby. 

Schwinn vs everything else draws blood.

Too me, the canti frame is as sexy as a 1985 dodge omni. They dressed that up, too, and called it a GLH (Goes Like Hell) with a turbo Shelby motor. Still an ugly car (and an off the wall comparison, but, the more absurd the comment, the more interesting the thread becomes.

As far as dressing up bikes with "doo dads," schwinn is guilty of that as much, or more, as everyone. It's the Cadillac of extra crap bolted to a bike.

No, nobody's gonna change their minds. Might as well argue Coors vs Bud, or Cowboys vs Niners, or... 

Religion.

The post about bike sizes is funny, too, because 90% of vintage bike photos show a 3' tall Opie-looking kid struggling to reach the pedals, and today, I gotta make layback seatposts so I'm not riding upright like a motorcycle cop. (I'm 5'7, also.)

And the reason the average person says "nice schwinn!" no matter what old bike you're riding, is because the average person doesn't have a clue. 

But it's better than "pee wee herman!" Those people are the same ones that yell "play freebird!" when a band asks for requests. 

This whole thread, and the debate over schwinns is meant to be a joke. At least, to non-schwinn lovers. In the end, who really cares?

My first bike was a garage sale stingray, my second was a scrambler 36/36, and then I learned that schwinn made heavy-ass bmx bikes and got a JMC black shadow.

Hmm, maybe there should be a "vintage schwinn bmx" category. All the Sting guys can argue with the Huffy Pro thunder lovers...


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## fattyre

bairdco said:


> Too me, the canti frame is as sexy as a 1985 dodge omni. They dressed that up, too, and called it a GLH (Goes Like Hell) with a turbo Shelby motor. Still an ugly car (and an off the wall comparison, but, the more absurd the comment, the more interesting the thread becomes.




Whoa now.  You mean the car that was faster than a Ferrari, Mustang, Camaro and almost as fast as a Vette in 1985? And it was a Chrysler turbo 2.2 motor, btw.


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## bairdco

That's the one. My brother had one. They were really fast, had horrible turbo lag, and a brothel inspired red velvet interior. 

The motor was designed by Shelby.

Sure, it was faster than everything else on the street, but It was still a horribly ugly little car, and it broke down all the time.


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## mruiz

When is it going to end?


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## Ron Smith

we have a keating girls bike have rims frame and crank and pedals any idea where we can find
parts or what it might be worth. Ty- R


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## island schwinn

Ron Smith said:


> we have a keating girls bike have rims frame and crank and pedals any idea where we can find
> parts or what it might be worth. Ty- R



Seriously doubt you'll find much in this thread.maybe post a thread in the wanted section.


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