# Schwinn S2 Wheels Ages?



## MBL

Howdy all. Tim here. I wanted to see if someone on here can tell me how to tell the vintage of Schwinn S2 wheels. I think the 48's had no knurling, anf in '49 knurling was added. Can someone tell me what was stamped in the wheels for different timeframes? Also is there a difference in the knurling? Wider or closer together?
Thanks for any help!
Tim
MBL


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## cyclebuster

the way i understand it, the knurling was an unintended result of manufacturing. Probabaly all S2 had knurl marks but the early ones were buffed out. I have heard and it makes sense that the machine that rolled the hoops used a knurled roller to aid in traction on the rim. Likely the cost of buffing these marks out drove them to a decision, and the cheapest route was to increase the depth and quality of the knurle pattern. Even the "unknurled" hoops have the marking on the inside from the rollers.


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## aasmitty757

MBL said:


> Howdy all. Tim here. I wanted to see if someone on here can tell me how to tell the vintage of Schwinn S2 wheels. I think the 48's had no knurling, anf in '49 knurling was added. Can someone tell me what was stamped in the wheels for different timeframes? Also is there a difference in the knurling? Wider or closer together?
> Thanks for any help!
> Tim
> MBL




Came out in 48 and were NON knurled.....that's right...no knurling. But they did say S-2.....so as not to be confused with Lobdell flat type rims that Schwinn was also using around the same period....So if you ever restore a 48 Schwinn, you can use either ...Drop centers, Flat lobdells or the "new" S-2 with out the knurling, in 49 they went to knurled.

The Phantom anniversary S-2 rims I believe had a wider and lighter double knurling, and there was a version with single knurling that were made up until the 80's, I can't remember if they were stamped S-2.


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## mruiz

*S-2*

The 1979, 80,81,82 S-2 were Hungarian made, they do have a light cur, but no Stamping. They are good wheels, with heavy duty spoks, and large flage front hubs. The rear hubs are Benix Mexico, with 4 brake pads. If this helps
 Mitch


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## GTs58

mruiz said:


> The 1979, 80,81,82 S-2 were Hungarian made, they do have a light cur, but no Stamping. They are good wheels, with heavy duty spoks, and large flage front hubs. The rear hubs are Benix Mexico, with 4 brake pads. If this helps
> Mitch





Just to clear things up here. The above info is totally wrong. Schwinn invested in the Hungarian factory in *1988* so the rims made in the years mentioned above were made in Chicago.


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## Schwinn499

GTs58 said:


> Just to clear things up here. The above info is totally wrong. Schwinn invested in the Hungarian factory in *1988* so the rims made in the years mentioned above were made in Chicago.



Better late than never[emoji14]


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## pedal_junky

Schwinn499 said:


> Better late than never[emoji14]




Haha, that's funny. Looking for my resurrection emoji.


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## GTs58

Schwinn499 said:


> Better late than never[emoji14]




Yep, since your buddy Jeff linked this thread in another recent S-2 question thread, I thought an update of the info here was needed for those that believe everything they read on the internet.


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## W2J

don't forget the ultra rare stainless S2 wheels from early 48.have seen 2 sets and actually owned a set.sold them without knowing how rare,until the buyer,who was a long time collector,told me what they were.they had weak knurling and the stamping was weak.


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## Schwinn499

Speaking of stainless wheels...I think the S6s on my 52 travelers are stainless as well but im not 100% sure. How can you tell?


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## island schwinn

From what W2J says,you have to sell them to a long time collector and then he'll tell you you screwed up.
Try a magnet and see how well it sticks.


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## Jeff54

GTs58 said:


> Just to clear things up here. The above info is totally wrong. Schwinn invested in the Hungarian factory in *1988* so the rims made in the years mentioned above were made in Chicago.




While you're correcting, ya don't wanna leave this part out "  but no Stamping."

Yes they were stamped, however, they got put on the side verses center. And, because it was done before the tracks,  most of them got covered over by it. So, as a result, there are variations from, none, quarter, and half to full  S-2 stamp. In some cases, if you hunt em down you might find part of the S-2 tip, top, beside the outer edge of the tracks too because, a some were not aligned square to the rim. 

This bike, 1978, had it on the back but the front was half covered by the tracks. I would have taken a photo before I'd sold it and almost did when packing it to ship, but, figured peps already knew what was going on.  It was clearly smashed over by the tracks. Since then, I see variations on ebay from time to time too.


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## juanitasmith13

W2J said:


> don't forget the ultra rare stainless S2 wheels from early 48.have seen 2 sets and actually owned a set.sold them without knowing how rare,until the buyer,who was a long time collector,told me what they were.they had weak knurling and the stamping was weak.




Stainless steel is MUCH HARDER material than regular steel... hence, the weaker appearing marks. Probably the same machine that left better defined marks in the 'softer' steel rims.


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## pkleppert

Magnet won't stick to them


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## Vintage-Whizzer

cyclebuster said:


> the way i understand it, the knurling was an unintended result of manufacturing. Probabaly all S2 had knurl marks but the early ones were buffed out. I have heard and it makes sense that the machine that rolled the hoops used a knurled roller to aid in traction on the rim. Likely the cost of buffing these marks out drove them to a decision, and the cheapest route was to increase the depth and quality of the knurle pattern. Even the "unknurled" hoops have the marking on the inside from the rollers.



I noticed my 1949 S2's have double knurls on the inside as well as the outside, and my 1948 S2's have no noticeable knurls on either side. So I wonder if they were buffed out, or if they just used a different process which was then changed in 1949? In the first 2 pictures below you can see the 1948 chrome S2 on the left, and the 1949 S2 on the right. The last pictures show another 1948 S2 rim with no knurls on either side. Another difference is the inner width. It seems that after 1949 the rims are a little wider on the inside. Anyway, I hope this helps.


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## Jeff54

Interestingly enough I've had a  C2383, four numbers on dropout verses 5, go figure? , presumably: 1952:  05/22 to 05/29 ------- C19052 ------------------ C40174 'Goodyear'.

restored about 20 year ago and didn't think on it  during or after,  after I'd responded to this thread, until now. Heck I haven't even bothered with it much in all those years too. I restored it for me daughter so, I just air it up and brush off from time to time. Not to leave out the last time I looked at serial numbers was 20 year ago and I'd thought it to be a 48, which is why I took another look just now.  for whatever reasons as, I also totally didn't know the serial number would have been on BB  and or forgot since then. .

I guess for the large guard paint scheme  and truss rods it's a Hornet. but, before restoring, the guard was good enough condition that, if there was a decal it should have been there as the other Goodyear guard  decal is but it's  not.   When found at a junk dealer in a field with other rotting bikes it was pretty rusty and I had to wipe white on the sides of the rims to enhance them. I'd wiped it on so it would spread thin, just cover the bad and keep from getting on the stripes even a few placed within the stripes. .  I color matched the Green at auto paint and then wiped it on a few places on frame and fenders as well, lightly but, just enough to blend in without over painting the whole thing orcrossing into the white or over any decals . But, everything down to the seat, knuckle buster stem, handle bars etc are no doubt original so, I have good odds the rims are as well. Yet we've all slept since it was made; anything could have happened

Yet an oddity in more than  two ways; serial number, no decal and what else?

 I hadn't given them much more thought regarding this thread and non-Knurled in 1948. Heck I completely forgot bout this:  They're not  knurled. And, which is interesting, while they are S2 or balloon designation, Not marked S2 too,  just Schwinn tubular _[edit; wait never-mind that, just in case I triple checked, the S2 is there but, way out on the other side of the next spoke particularly quite a ways away,  but very light stamp. regardless they're not knurled, and definitely not covered over wit me light, thin paint jobby.}_ : (guess it's time for another cleaning though) :

Perhaps it's an oddity for being a wholesale unit, tossed extra, laying around reject serial number  or discontinued  stuff onto it before delivering to Goodyear OR? otherwise, Schwinn was doing a crappy job center knurling them in 52 and by this time Schwinn was fitting the Tubular stamp pretty well, balanced where the stamping fit without getting holes poked for spokes,  they could be mistaken as 48's;


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## GTs58

I didn't know Schwinn was decaling or making bikes for Goodyear.   There were only a handful of models that actually had a chain guard decal with the model name prior to 1953.


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## Jeff54

GTs58 said:


> I didn't know Schwinn was decaling or making bikes for Goodyear.   There were only a handful of models that actually had a chain guard decal with the model name prior to 1953.



whelp I were wondering bout that so X that off if'ns they didn't. I simply felt like adding it in, besides who cares,  as topic isn't about decals,    but fricken rims.


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## Vintage-Whizzer

GTs58 said:


> I didn't know Schwinn was decaling or making bikes for Goodyear.   There were only a handful of models that actually had a chain guard decal with the model name prior to 1953.



I owned a BF Goodrich Schwinn with a C serial number under the bottom bracket, a pencil kickstand, and non knurled S2's. It was a late 1947 or early 1948.
Allot of people confuse 1940's post war bikes with 1952's because of the repeat in serial numbers due to the lost records in 1948. If your bike has a C-serial number, and it's under the crank, it is probably a 1947 or 1948. You can distinguish if it is a 1947 or a 1948 by the rims. If it has drop centers it is probably from 1947, and if it has non knurled S2's, it is probably from 1948. From what I have heard, the S2's came out in 1948, but they may have started in late 1947? If any of this info is wrong, please correct me. I really do not want to steer anybody in the wrong direction. Thank you!


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## Jeff54

Vintage-Whizzer said:


> I owned a BF Goodrich Schwinn with a C serial number under the bottom bracket, a pencil kickstand, and non knurled S2's. It was a late 1947 or early 1948.
> Allot of people confuse 1940's post war bikes with 1952's because of the repeat in serial numbers due to the lost records in 1948. If your bike has a C-serial number, and it's under the crank, it is probably a 1947 or 1948. You can distinguish if it is a 1947 or a 1948 by the rims. If it has drop centers it is probably from 1947, and if it has non knurled S2's, it is probably from 1948. From what I have heard, the S2's came out in 1948, but they may have started in late 1947? If any of this info is wrong, please correct me. I really do not want to steer anybody in the wrong direction. Thank you!




Thanks, that prob splains why I'd originally, 20 year back , thought mine   to be a 48.. yet, 4 danged numbers plus crappy non-existent  knurling too boot.? eugh.  maybe i'll just grind the _kickstank_ to a point some day fer the hecks of it and it'll become a 46, 48 and 52, plus add in a hornet decal 53 all in one. . [grin]


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## Vintage-Whizzer

Usually you only see the tapered kickstands on the 1946 models, but I have a stock 1948 Whizzer with non knurled S2's and a tapered kickstand. The serial number says it's from 1940, but it is a post war bike. I have seen other 1947 and 1948 bikes with a tapered kickstand as well. Then again there are 1946 Schwinn's with non tapered kickstands. Do you have a picture of your bike? If it is a DX or Straight Bar, another quick way to identify the year is, the bottom bar will be the same diameter as the top bar. In 1949 Schwinn made the lower bar on the DX, and Panther models smaller in diameter. Some jack ass probably said it would save them a few hundred dollars each year. And then later on another jack ass said lets move our factory over to China, and save millions each year. lol


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## Oilit

Vintage-Whizzer said:


> Usually you only see the tapered kickstands on the 1946 models, but I have a stock 1948 Whizzer with non knurled S2's and a tapered kickstand. The serial number says it's from 1940, but it is a post war bike. I have seen other 1947 and 1948 bikes with a tapered kickstand as well. Then again there are 1946 Schwinn's with non tapered kickstands. Do you have a picture of your bike? If it is a DX or Straight Bar, another quick way to identify the year is, the bottom bar will be the same diameter as the top bar. In 1949 Schwinn made the lower bar on the DX, and Panther models smaller in diameter. Some jack ass probably said it would save them a few hundred dollars each year. And then later on another jack ass said lets move our factory over to China, and save millions each year. lol



I don't know Edward Schwinn, and I've never been in the position he was in when Schwinn was having problems, but reading "The Fall of Schwinn", Part 1 and 2, Crain's Chicago Business, I can't help but notice that when Schwinn needed all the friends it could get, he couldn't seem to keep a positive working relationship either with the workers in Chicago, the management of Giant, or the bankers who eventually sold his business out from under him.
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/19931009/ISSUE01/100018007/the-fall-of-schwinn-pt-1-of-2
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/19931009/ISSUE01/100018008/the-fall-of-schwinn-pt-2-of-2


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## A.S.BOLTNUT

Vintage-Whizzer said:


> Usually you only see the tapered kickstands on the 1946 models, but I have a stock 1948 Whizzer with non knurled S2's and a tapered kickstand. The serial number says it's from 1940, but it is a post war bike. I have seen other 1947 and 1948 bikes with a tapered kickstand as well. Then again there are 1946 Schwinn's with non tapered kickstands. Do you have a picture of your bike? If it is a DX or Straight Bar, another quick way to identify the year is, the bottom bar will be the same diameter as the top bar. In 1949 Schwinn made the lower bar on the DX, and Panther models smaller in diameter. Some jack ass probably said it would save them a few hundred dollars each year. And then later on another jack ass said lets move our factory over to China, and save millions each year. lol




Once I seen a guy take a kick stand off one bike and put it on another ! , you never kno what's OG....?


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## Vintage-Whizzer

A.S.BOLTNUT said:


> Once I seen a guy take a kick stand off one bike and put it on another ! , you never kno what's OG....?



I have tried putting a tapered kickstand on another bike, and the angle was completely wrong, and it wouldn't work. Possibly the brazed on bracket is positioned differently to accept the angle of the tapered kickstand?..  That is what I have observed. So maybe a taperedl kickstand will only work with a frame that was intended for one.
Honestly to set any kind real truth to this, more then one study would have to be done.


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## A.S.BOLTNUT

Did you try removing the cam inside the stand bracket ?


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## Vintage-Whizzer

A.S.BOLTNUT said:


> Did you try removing the cam inside the stand bracket ?



Yes, I had a C serial number 1940's bike and tried to install a pencil kickstand from another worn 1946 frame, and it would not work.
The pencil kickstand was offset, and was touching the tire. I used all of it's correct inner parts as well.
On the frame it came off of, it fit perfectly, and everything was lined up. Maybe this was a one time thing? 
From that day, I always figured that there was a difference. I am sure that there are guy's with way more experience then me in this matter. Any other input would be great!


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## Vintage-Whizzer

I keep calling it pencil, but I mean tapered! Sorry!


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