# Model 1588 Iver Johnson Arch Truss Roadster -- To refinish or not to refinish



## Iverider

I figure it's time to start a thread on my Iver Johnson arch truss project before I get too many photos.

I bought the bike from CrownKing a couple of years ago off of eBay. He didn't want to disassemble and ship so it was a local pick up auction fortunately for me.

When bidding was through, it was MINE!






When I first saw it I didn't really know what to think. At least the frame was solid was what I kept telling myself. There is original paint on there, and even a little of the Iver Logo on the downtube...but only a little.
The saddle leather was in amazing shape, but pretty much everything had a light peppering of shallow pits across the surface. The handlebars were rusted in half at the stem, the headbadge was missing, it had the wrong fork on it and the rear wheel was cracked and repaired with a bolt and square nut at some point long ago. The front wheel wasn't frozen, but the chain was so crusty that I couldn't tell the state of the rest of the drivetrain. I explored CrownKing's Crown collection and shot the poope for a bit, then threw the Iver on top of the Bug and headed home. I was excited!






When I arrived at home I immediately soaked every nut and bolt with penetrating oil and began disassembly.





To my surprise everything unbolted quite easily, the only trick being removing the crank nut. At this point, my plans were not well defined.

Wall hanger? No. Full resto? Maybe...but not yet.

I began buying parts WHEN I could find them. I needed a fork, and ended up with three that didn't fit before I got the right one. 





I needed a badge and lucked out with this one.






I assembled the whole thing at one point with a fixed gear wheelset from a different bike and some later Iver cranks and rode back and forth down mainstreet for a few minutes. Rides nice!


----------



## Iverider

Of course it still needed the badge.





That's better.





Last night I fixed the pesky wobble in the crank interface. At this point it's a bit of a hack, but I'll address the ugly washer at a later time. At least it is functional at this point.





And assembled the bike except for the wheels. All of the bearing surfaces were in great shape and all they required was a little cleaning and some fresh grease.







I stuck an Ideale saddle on it for the time being as the Original Troxel was in "Collector Shape" It moved in with Bricycle months ago. I'll eventually build a metal panned unsprung saddle for it, but for riding purposes the Ideale is ideal.


----------



## fat tire trader

From your pictures, it looks to me like there isn't enough of the original paint left to not restore it. I would sand blast it, paint it and get the nickel redone.


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

Good rolling restoration.
Nice to see one brought back to life.


----------



## DonChristie

It's alive!! Nice to see her rollin again. Were you able to save the fenders? Did you decide how you would do her up? Original or custom?


----------



## Iverider

schwinndoggy said:


> It's alive!! Nice to see her rollin again. Were you able to save the fenders? Did you decide how you would do her up? Original or custom?




I'm going with a mechanical refurb for the time being. I think I'll give the bike the full treatment "original style" just in time for it to turn 100 years old in 2015. The rear fender is in great shape, but the front fender which didn't match was ragged and thin. I have a replacement flat fender that I'm using until I find the proper Iver fender.


----------



## Kombicol

Could you get this one and modify to a front?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Ive...ultDomain_0&hash=item589b8f91e2#ht_346wt_1091

What did you use for the 'celephane' backing on the badge?

My vote - fauxtina the fork to match the frame and make it a rider now, and full resto later if you really enjoy riding it.


----------



## Iverider

That fender is deeper than what I'm looking for. I need the flatter style fender with the rolled edge. They seem heavier than the rain gutter style, but I wonder if it's because they aren't as wide (less flex).

I'll probably see how much of the red paint will come off with a scotch brite and oven cleaner. It doesn't appear to have been prepped all that well before it was painted and I think it's black underneath.


----------



## bricycle

...you look like somebody I know.....


----------



## Iverider

What ever happened to your arch truss Bri?


----------



## bricycle

Krautwaggen said:


> What ever happened to your arch truss Bri?




Somebody on here got it I believe....cheaply too.


----------



## Iverider

*Grips!*

I received the grips that Bricycle made in the mail two days ago and finally got them on the bike and took some photos.

They look fantastic! Thanks Bri! They look sooo much better than the modern cork grips I had on there.


----------



## Iverider

So in lieu of my inability to read the label on the nipples that I got from Filmonger, I didn't get to build my wood wheels last night.

The front hub is repacked and ready to rock, but the rear is not. I decided ton concentrate on some other things so I switched out my old seatpost for the extra long post I won on eBay a week or two ago. You can see the dark spot on the short post is my seat insertion depth. Now I'll have a lot more post in the frame which is a nice thing.



I also inserted the first washer into the rims. The package says to use two per hole. I couldn't figure out exactly which way they are supposed to go, but I decided in the end that the only way they would fit is to insert them taper side to the bottom of the hole. I pressed them in with a small round punch. The seem to have seated well.




I also tried my tires on which is a must when you get shiny new wood wheels. Gotta know what they're going to look like. The tires are WTB Pathway for anyone interested. Rims are CB Italia Natural (White) Finish.





After all of that excitement I switched out my cheesed up cranks for a better looking set that I was given along with a flat front fender that matched the rear Iver fender. I also cleaned and repacked my Torrington Star Quill pedals but forgot to take pics. The races looked perfect and they spin like butter.

Finally got to bed at 4:30 a.m. only to get up at 7 and go to work. Stupid.


----------



## masini

Nice job on this one. I'm enjoying the progress (yeah, I'm a newbie and recent lurker). 

My experience with wooden rims (I know Mr. Carminati fairly well and have been to his shop a number of times for my Italian restorations) is that you have the washers in backwards. I have a few sets of Ghisallo's and have always seen and built them up in the opposite direction. I've seen them counterbore the holes and place the washers in many times. You may find better luck long-term if you swap them out.

How do you like the WTB's? It's the first I've seen them used on a restoration. I'm considering getting some custom profile Ghisallo's with the carbon insert for my truss Iver and need a new option. Everything I've used in the past are tubular.

Rory


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

Ghisallo just shipped my 700c wood/carbon rims.
Hoping to recieve them next week.
I will be using Electra Amsterdam tires.
My son, a bicycle mechanic, will be building the wheels.


----------



## Iverider

Thanks for the tip Rory. Can you tell me how the shop you went to counterbored the holes to fit the spoke washers in the way that they did it? I stared at the damned things for a good half hour thinking they should just slip in. I decided after that since they were so easily bendable that it didn't matter much and pushed them home to the bottom of the spoke hole with a punch of the appropriate size. 

The instructions I received called for doubling the washers so they wouldn't pull through. I have a forstner bit that I could use to counterbore, but I'm kind of shy about cutting into my new rims. Of course if they explode from being laced wrong that won't be any better. I have plenty of washers so I can redo it if need be.

As far as the WTB tires go. They're pretty nice. I have them on my '82 Trek 420 and although I had to pinch the rear chainstays to get the 700-38s to fit, they're cushy, grippy, and pretty nice for the crappy roads around where I live. Recently I've been riding my 29er on the country roads and I'm considering putting a set of these tires on it to make it go a little faster (averaging 10 mph over rolling hills with 2.35" knobbies) I like the chevron pattern of the tires. Looks a little more believable to me, but that's just one opinion. Amsterdams have a gross looking tread when you get up close, but they do look good from 20 feet! Will whoever makes them come out with a button tread or vaccuum cup tire already!!!? Hell a 700-38c smoothie in white would be better than nothing and super easy to make.


----------



## filmonger

*Washers*

Masini is correct....have a look at this picture - this might help.


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

Thanks for posting the photo.


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

Krautwaggen said:


> Thanks for the tip Rory. Can you tell me how the shop you went to counterbored the holes to fit the spoke washers in the way that they did it? I stared at the damned things for a good half hour thinking they should just slip in. I decided after that since they were so easily bendable that it didn't matter much and pushed them home to the bottom of the spoke hole with a punch of the appropriate size.
> 
> The instructions I received called for doubling the washers so they wouldn't pull through. I have a forstner bit that I could use to counterbore, but I'm kind of shy about cutting into my new rims. Of course if they explode from being laced wrong that won't be any better. I have plenty of washers so I can redo it if need be.
> 
> As far as the WTB tires go. They're pretty nice. I have them on my '82 Trek 420 and although I had to pinch the rear chainstays to get the 700-38s to fit, they're cushy, grippy, and pretty nice for the crappy roads around where I live. Recently I've been riding my 29er on the country roads and I'm considering putting a set of these tires on it to make it go a little faster (averaging 10 mph over rolling hills with 2.35" knobbies) I like the chevron pattern of the tires. Looks a little more believable to me, but that's just one opinion. Amsterdams have a gross looking tread when you get up close, but they do look good from 20 feet! Will whoever makes them come out with a button tread or vaccuum cup tire already!!!? Hell a 700-38c smoothie in white would be better than nothing and super easy to make.




Rather than counter-bore the spoke holes, you can press the washers into a steel die or pipe to reduce the outside diameter. This would be less labor and mess.


----------



## Iverider

I was thinking about that Giovanni. Good idea. I was thinking they would just drop in from the start even though i read on wheel fanatyks blog that they need to go in the way you're all corroborating. Thanks everyone for preventing a bad wheel build! (Or preventing it thus far... No tellin' what I'll screw up next!) Cabers don't let cabers build bad wheels!


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

If you have a milling machine or have access to one, you can mill out the die with an access hole to punch out the washers. You can also machine a pin with the same profile as the washer to hydraulically press the washers into the die. Make sure that the washers are lubed when pressing into the die.


----------



## fat tire trader

It seems odd to me that they would sell the rims without making the spoke holes fit the washers properly. I think that once they are in the hole, they are fine either way. I would think that the point in would be better than the point out. Either way when the spokes are tensioned, the washer will probably conform to the nipple and rim. To get the best advice, I would ask CB Italia, since they make the rims, they are the experts.  If they have trouble with English, I can write to them in Italian for you. I would recommend not believing what everyone says on the cabe, some of us have very little experience and are quick to answer questions and make suggestions.


----------



## Iverider

To me it seems the way I put them in would prevent pullout and they do press in easily when done that way. Three sources two of which supply the rims and build them on a regular basis have said to put them in the other way. The washers do engage the nipple MORE the way I'm being told to install them. The washers themselves appear to be pretty cheaply made which may be the reason for the poopy fit. 

Im sure the longer I wait to build the more people will chime in. I just didn't think there should be that much prep to install a washer. CBs website doesn't say which way to put them together either. I'll email them and see what they say. Probably something like "doesn't matter if you use two washers per spoke."


----------



## filmonger

*washers*

I think you may be slightly over thinking this one...... It is not a huge deal. CB Italia as well as Ghisallo all provide washers that are (kind of) cheap ( other than the oval washers supplied by Wheel Fanatyk for the carbon rims ). What you have done will work fine as along as the wheel is protected from the spoke pulling through the rim. Your not building a performance rim - but you do want your rim to be strong, reliable and fit for purpose. I tried for quite a long time to find better quality washers - but could not find anything that was cost effective. The other thing to remember is that the wood wheels are dynamic and the tensions are lower than other wheels - so try and make what ever you do symmetrical. As you have already poppped them into place and seem unable to get them out with ease I might be inclined to leave them. Do you have the option of putting the second washer over your existing washer in the correct manner?


----------



## Iverider

I came to that same conclusion last night when I was taking photos of my 100 year old rim washers and thinking to myself...does it matter that much?  

Anyway I think I'll continue the build as is because the washers are pretty much well seated and in for good and the second washer will fit into place just fine with a little pressure.

For those of you curious about new and old, pics are below along with the reason I installed my washers what we'll call "backwards".















Thanks again for the advice!




filmonger said:


> I think you may be slightly over thinking this one...... It is not a huge deal. CB Italia as well as Ghisallo all provide washers that are (kind of) cheap ( other than the oval washers supplied by Wheel Fanatyk for the carbon rims ). What you have done will work fine as along as the wheel is protected from the spoke pulling through the rim. Your not building a performance rim - but you do want your rim to be strong, reliable and fit for purpose. I tried for quite a long time to find better quality washers - but could not find anything that was cost effective. The other thing to remember is that the wood wheels are dynamic and the tensions are lower than other wheels - so try and make what ever you do symmetrical. As you have already poppped them into place and seem unable to get them out with ease I might be inclined to leave them. Do you have the option of putting the second washer over your existing washer in the correct manner?


----------



## fat tire trader

Among other things, I am a carpenter. I use a lot of products made by  Simpson Strong Tie 
http://www.strongtie.com/#
They build stuff to destroy and test the strengths of their products. They found that square washers are harder to pull through wood than round washers.
Are you going to grease the threads of your spokes, or use spoke prep, or leave them dry? I prefer to use grease, my friend Gravy, who builds a lot more wheels than I do uses spoke prep. I still prefer to use grease.


----------



## Iverider

I was planning on using oil rather than grease. I don't have spoke prep on hand, and my 29er wheels that I beat to a pulp at every opportunity have held up well with little truing and no loosening using only oil.


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

I'm considering using this grease.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/723099/loctite-c5-a-anti-seize-grease-copper-1-oz-tube


----------



## rustyspoke66

Don't know if this helps but we used linseed oil as spoke prep back in the day. It is very economical and works great.


----------



## Hermanator3

*Linseed oil*

I've built a number of wheels & have used boiled linseed oil, which is old school.  I believe it acts as a lubricate when building the wheel & then dries & acts a bit like Loctite.


----------



## Iverider

Trued up the front wheel last night and mounted the tire. I now have one Chinese part on the bike...the rim strip! I should have bought some  Velox but forgot so I pulled a strip from a wheel in the parts bin.  Right now they stick out like a beautiful thumb, but with some use  they'll look better. I didn't distress them because I'll either refinish  the bike someday or let the rims wear in. I also didn't think to black  out the stupid sidewall graphics on the tires until after I took the photos with a Sharpie. Barely noticeable if you're not looking for them.








I  also rebuilt the Morrow hub I'm using. The Titanic is in better  condition than the shell on the original and the braking surface was  cracked so I opted for function over absolute correctness. 





Hopefully I'll be lacing the rear up tonight and getting the bike back on the ground.With that it'll be rideable again. 





I  also got my Delta light working. I admit I didn't quite keep this stock  either. It has a CREE LED from a 1200 lumen flashlight in it. I managed  to mount it without changing the housing in anyway. Just took an  aluminum cylinder out of the flashlight, glued the LED to it and drilled  it for a set screw to mount over the original bulb holder. It has High,  medium, low, blink and SOS modes. Kind of fun.


----------



## filmonger

*RE: Nice ride*

Looks like you did a great job on the wheel build - Sharpies are fantastic little items at times! Interesting idea on the light - will make it a very useful rideable bike at night.


----------



## Iverider

Yes, the wheels went together well! I had to retrue them last night but I figured they'll move around a little until everything is seated. I had some bearings to tighten races on as well. Bike rides very smoothly. I took it out at lunch time yesterday and went for a short 7 mile ride to visit a friend who has a mess of antique cars. 26/10 gear ratio is just about right. I was thinking it would be too hard for the rolling hills around here.


----------



## Iverider

On the 20th of this month I'll be riding 500 miles stopping at the Wheelmen National meet (for the swap at the least)

Should be a good time.

Decided that since my bicycle budget has become ever smaller that I should build a rack instead of buying one even though someone had a sweet rack in the classifieds for only $60. 

I like how it's turning out. Just need to drill some holes, put in some rivets and bolts here and there and fabricate a drop stand and seat stay mount.

I made the rack support follow the angle of the upper fender stay as there was way too many lines going on back there. I thought about incorporating the fender stay with the rack, but I want to be able to remove it and keep the fenders on. Next I have to learn to make saddle bags.


----------



## Nick-theCut

Awesome!
Make sure and keep this thread or another updated on your journey.


----------



## Iverider

One day till blast off (Thursday). First leg of the trip is nearly 60 miles from Gosport, IN to Columbus, IN via Martinstucky, Morgantown and Edinburgh. 

Finished the rack two days ago and carted my camera equipment home and it held up perfectly. I may have overbuilt it. Don't think I'll have the drop stand ready by the time I leave but it's not critical to the journey.

Saddlebags are still not finished but should be this evening. Burned up a whole spool of thread figuring out my 1940s sewing machine that didn't come with a manual but I think I've got it adjusted properly and it should be ready to stitch the heavy oiled canvas I'll be using. I wanted to use leather, but I didn't have enough on hand. This canvas stinks like hell.




I started using the machine above, but quickly bound it into a knot. Too many complicated settings so I went back to my antique straight stitch no-nonsense workhorse. Canvas is all cut and laying all over the floor.

Pre-rack shot just for fun.





Anyone see a battery box like this before?


----------



## Iverider

And to increase my post count, I'll throw up another pic...Why not?


----------



## tailhole

*Cool project.*

I like your bike.  I just rode my Iver through the streets of Denver last night.  It gets nice & cool here in the summer evenings.  I found one of those digital signs that post your speed and remind you to slow down (like the one below).  I got it to 32 mph (it was down hill).  I kept circling back and trying again.  My goal was 35, I will try again tonight.  These bikes love fast.  I do too.





My Iver....


----------



## Iverider

LAWBREAKER!

Well done. I've gotten mine up to 25.6 mph according to my runtastic roadbike app on my phone. Kinda cool in that it maps your top speed, average speed, your route, time and distance traveled, temperature and allows you to enter weather and road type as well as how you felt at the end of the ride.

Kind of fun if you just want to see some stats. I'm not a competitive rider so that's all it is for me.

Saddle bags are shaping up.





Did two bags out of oilcloth tonight and have to figure out the straps and fasteners. Good thing it's only 1 a.m. and I don't have to be at work today until 8 a.m.


----------



## masini

Krautwaggen said:


> Can you tell me how the shop you went to counterbored the holes to fit the spoke washers in the way that they did it?




Just remembered this video I made a while ago. Here you can see Antonio Carminati boring the holes one last time (real quick). I'm not a wood guy, so don't know the precise name of the bit he's using in what must be a 60-year-old or more Italian drill press!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOIjohMcTqU


----------



## Iverider

Your sig reads as a what's cool about Italian bikes! Nice collection. I report good ridin of the Iver for a total of around 120 miles over the last two days. Thank god or whoever for gas stations and being able to refill my camelback for free! I made it from Gosport to Columbus indiana last night and continued to Louisville Kentucky today. Talk about a long haul, and HOT! Broke a spoke about 10 miles from Louisville and flatted just before the bridge so I guess I did t ride the whole way although I did travel entirely under my own power. 
Wheelmen swap tomorrow.  Hope to at least post some pics of good stuff if not buy some of it! Heading to Wyandotte cave Monday morning and on to Evansville Tuesday. I'll try to post more between now and then.


----------



## Iverider

Building in Paragon 1st day of riding 





On Hwy 31 going south to Louisville 2nd Day of riding


----------



## filmonger

*Long Ride*

Fantastic to see the bike in Action! Wooow is all I have to say.


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

More photos, please.
Have a great trip.


----------



## masini

Thanks. I have to admit, I've pretty much exhausted my Italian thing... I have everything I want outside of a 20's Stucchi. This American thing though... gimme some ideas! Roadsters only please... still haven't gotten into the balloon thing.

Great trip! I just lost my job and am thinking about doing similar, but with kids on the way (yes, plural), I think I better start saving (or selling!).


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

Congratulations on the twins!
Hope you find employment to supplement your hobby.


----------



## Iverider

Finally got my photos on Flickr and added some descriptions to them to kind of tell about my ride. Too many to post here individually.

I'm planning on writing a short article that deals more with the ride part of it in the near future that I may post here.

If you would like to view the photos check it out.

There's some good stuff from the Wheelmen National Meet in there too.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/32224799@N02/sets/72157634486674563/


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

Great photos Brian.
Looks like a great ride, too.


----------



## Iverider

Thanks Giovanni.

If anyone is near the midwest and wants to do a long ride let me know!





GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> Great photos Brian.
> Looks like a great ride, too.


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

Looks like there were some good eats along the way.
Did you really need any of the Butt Drugs ? :^)


----------



## Iverider

Yeah. Good food was the unspoken theme of the trip! I guess bag balm classifies more as near butt drugs.


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

I was referring to the Butt Drug Store in your photos. What a crazy name for a drug store!
Yes we sell Preperation-H . :^)


----------



## Iverider

I know. They have a hilarious commercial that I'm sure has found it's way onto YouTube by now. That part of the trip is when I began wishing I had a different saddle. It wasn't getting along with my posterior.


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

Here are a couple of the Butt Drug commercials.
You probably need one of those silicone gel seat cushions. I have one on my ten-speed racer and they are cushy.

http://youtu.be/oYYdF0zcuSI

http://youtu.be/OSLLs26rWzo


----------



## Iverider

I hit 45.3 mph today on the Arch Truss on my way to work. Have to do it once more to confirm it, but it was fun!!!


----------



## bricycle

Krautwaggen said:


> I hit 45.3 mph today on the Arch Truss on my way to work. Have to do it once more to confirm it, but it was fun!!!




..scream'nnnnnnn.......


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

Is the headpost nickel plated? :^)


----------



## Iverider

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> Is the headpost nickel plated? :^)




It should be! but no. My bike originally was black with green head and darts. It's slow uphill


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

How much does it weigh?


----------



## Iverider

At least 250 pounds  I haven't bothered to weigh the bike but on it's own I'd say it's pushin' high 30s low 40s due to the full fenders and the monster rack I built for the back. Stripped down I'd probably be closer to low 30s high 20s. I'll post some measurements up sometime.


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

My Iver Truss is feather light.
I think there were 3 different weights.


----------



## Iverider

So I'm considering the "All Black" option for my Iver given it IS an option. Not entirely sure why they had this option other than maybe a shortage of Nickel plating during WW1? Not sure how to go about enameling things without filling in the stamped "IVER JOHNSON" on things like stem, seatpost, etc. For this reason, I'm hesitant. Nickel looks soooooo good!






Also FINALLY scanned this pic that I got from CrownKing a while back.


----------



## Tin machine

*cool build !!*

cool build ! I LIKE what you done with this bike sweet rider !!


----------



## gwad1970

Hey krautwaggon ..What material did you use to back up your Iver Johnson badge? Its seems to be a pretty good color match. Thanks Mike.


----------



## Iverider

It's celluloid for making guitar picks. I found it on eBay but haven't seen the same color since. You might be able to find an online supplier. It is a little thick, but I like the way it looks. Next time I will sand it down to thin it a bit and then use a little heat to form it around the head tube.


----------



## gwad1970

Great Thanks I'm on the hunt!


----------



## theyankeedoodler

gwad1970 said:


> Great Thanks I'm on the hunt!




I did the same thing as Krautwaggen. Let me dig out the piece of celluloid & I'll cut an extra for you.


----------



## tailhole

theyankeedoodler said:


> I did the same thing as Krautwaggen. Let me dig out the piece of celluloid & I'll cut an extra for you.




This is one of the many reasons I LOVE the CABE!


----------



## 2jakes

Krautwaggen said:


> So I'm considering the "All Black" option for my Iver given it IS an option. Not entirely sure why they had this option other than maybe a shortage of Nickel plating during WW1? Not sure how to go about enameling things without filling in the stamped "IVER JOHNSON" on things like stem, seatpost, etc. For this reason, I'm hesitant. Nickel looks soooooo good!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically the frame will be enamel black. But to save the original "IVER JOHNSON"
> I'm using testor's black enamel & soft sable brushes.
> You can see the _"son"_ that has already been painted black.
> This is the only part I'm doing with a brush by hand.
> I need to find a way to mask the decal without damaging it & finish
> painting the frame.
> 
> There's something called "rhodium plating" that is used on rings to refinish
> without damaging or altering the engraving or stamping.
> I'm going to check around with local platers & see what can be
> done with my stem, handlebars that have " IVER JOHNSON " stamped.
> Online, it states that it's not expensive....but  I'll find out tomorrow...


----------



## Iverider

That's cool. The description of the "All Black" 1915 Model is as follows


----------



## tailhole

*ALL black*

That does sound pretty neat.  I bet all black for just aesthetic reasons was pretty rare for a bike back in those days.  Mad Max.


----------



## 2jakes

*Goldleaf*






I was curious about "gilded" ...




_"Black & gilded for a beautiful combination"..._




_(goldleaf)_
This is a prominent example that was in vogue back then...


----------



## Iverider

True! The description is vague but I'm curious if it refers to the decal and the head badge "nameplate"


----------

