# OT - modern lightweight with classic style



## bulldog1935 (Mar 21, 2015)

I've had an upright in my mind for awhile, and when a late 90s Viner Italian cross frame came up on ebay in my size, decided to spring for it and finagled an offer with the seller - actually 3 offers - he finally accepted the third offer.  



 


Did my homework, made a list of parts, sourced best prices from Japan to UK and in between, sold a few fly rods and a reel.  
Decided on Aherne 615mm MAP bars, which are modeled on the Jones H bars and have a very natural hand position.  
With measurements from my other bikes and a scaled photo of the bar went with 80mm Technomic stem, placing the ends of the bars about an inch behind the stem.  Wanted a modern compact double with gearing that would let me climb the steep hills back home after a long ride - Microshift 9-speed thumb shifters - this is my first ever index-shift bike, though had great luck with Microshift bar ends on a Team Fuji my daughter built summer before last.  


 


Paul touring canti brakes - Andy at Modern Bike has the deal on Paul components.  Velomine had an inexpensive tubular wheelset with a great price, so I decided to at least begin with tubies and sprung for good tires - Challenge Chicane - these will will run down to 23 psi on the soft stuff, are rated for 90 psi, but no reason to ever run them above 60 psi.  

The final on my drivetrain is Sugino XD2 42/25T rings with guard, and Miche 12-29 9-sp custom cassette.  Microshift R10 RD and Ultegra CX70 FD (this came from UK at half of US price); SKF BB 111mm Italian with JIS tapers.  


 
Gearing is 23 inches to 90 inches in 4-7-inch steps.  

Done - quick but reliable steering, the bike is light and responsive, the tires are fast, cozy and quiet


 
In order to get the pedal placement correct for upright riding position, had to go with a max offset seatpost, Nitto S84, but got this from Japan for 40% of the US selling price.  
Also, if anybody wants a great bag buy, the Ostrich 731 7-liter bag from Alex Cycles in Japan is $67 including the 4-day express mail (selling price for this bag in the US is $140 plus shipping). 
There are great buys in Japan right now because of a weak JY (which even makes the shipping a good buy).   


 
The Nitto wire cage there is also half of the US price.  



A few details - cork grips with 7 coats spar varnish and twine wrap spacers with 2 coats shellac


 
Randi Jo bartender bag - the most useful bag ever


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## Dale Alan (Mar 21, 2015)

Very nice,looks like all your homework and eye for detail really paid off. Really like the grips and spacers,that is a nice touch. Are those grips custom ? I did a similar build with about the same geometry,took a few miles to get the hang of that quick steering.


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## bulldog1935 (Mar 21, 2015)

thanks Dale - those are Meisha's cork grips from Rivendell. 
http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/gt5norm.htm

I built the bike with a Thomson post I already had around.  When I took my first ride to seat tubies, I noticed the quick steering, plus I was over the pedals.  So when I ordered my bag from Japan, I included the Nitto Big offset seatpost, S84.  Perfection, putting me properly behind the pedals, and taking weight off the front wheel slowed the steering to a very comfortable feel.

You'd be surprised, there are individual items Grant has great prices on - my wish list and parts purchase from Rivendell included all my Yokozuna cables, small chainring and guard, brass ferrules, small fittings and the cork grips.  

I used these grips a few years ago on my daughter's upright - they were longer then - I like the older ones better, but this worked out great - I'm really happy with my twine wraps.  


 


To treat cork grips, use varnish, not shellac - varnish is flexible, but shellac is rigid and flakes off the grips.  
Shellac is better on twine wraps, though, sinking in and turning them into a tough composite, but they can still have a nice fabric feel on the surface.  

Rivdendell also a great video on how to to do twine wraps 
http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/twine.htm

Twine wraps - this was my first, and also has varnish, which is not as good on the twine.  






if you hang much around the Rivendell Blug, you'll find a thousand uses for twine wraps.


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## rollfaster (Mar 21, 2015)

Very cool bike, and it looks very comfortable. Rob.


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## bulldog1935 (Mar 21, 2015)

Did take a 10-mi ride with my daughter, but that was before it was all tuned in.  
Running errands since then, it's great.  
It's raining today and I'm working on fishing reels.  
But tomorrow is clear and I'm taking a maiden ride across San Antonio to the Frankenbike meet.  Will let you know...

btw, the Paul canti brakes are worth springing for
They are the simplest brakes in the world to adjust.  
Most brakes pivot on bushings on the canti bosses.  
But the Paul brakes have a sleeve that slides over the canti boss, they pivot on sealed bearings and have an internal spring that you adjust externally with a 15mm wrench.  
So you set the brakes up with no tension on the springs and the last thing you do is dial in spring tension and tighten the bolts.


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## Dale Alan (Mar 21, 2015)

Thanks for the info and links. I will surely be doing some shopping at Rivendell soon. I was not aware of those grips.I bought mine from Velo Orange.I really like them ,but I would like to try a different profile to compare. Those wraps really add a touch of class,will have give that a try.


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## Dale Alan (Mar 21, 2015)

Thanks for more great info,I was wondering why folks love their Paul brakes so much. They sound like just what I need. I am a perfectionist(not what my wife calls it),I am never 100 percent happy with my canti setups. I am constantly fussing over them,actually messing with some today.


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## Duchess (Mar 21, 2015)

I'm also a big fan of twine for various things and it's so easy to do. On a bike I built for my sister, I used them as a chain stay protector. Love those brakes, too. I might check those out someday—I hate adjusting cantis.


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## bulldog1935 (Mar 21, 2015)

Dale Alan said:


> Thanks for more great info,I was wondering why folks love their Paul brakes so much. They sound like just what I need. I am a perfectionist(not what my wife calls it),I am never 100 percent happy with my canti setups. I am constantly fussing over them,actually messing with some today.




In my finished brake photos, you can see Paul moons for the straddle cable yoke - these are an extra also worth springing for - they don't crimp (and break) the cable and have an ersatz 8mm hex head on the back, making brake cable adjustment a snap.

Dutchess, thanks for the photo - pretty bike and nice wraps!


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## Dale Alan (Mar 21, 2015)

Those Moons were the first thing my eye caught. I noticed the clamp was as simple as it gets. Thanks for educating me on the Pauls. They are just what I have been looking for.I love wrenching on bibycles and adjusting cantis is one of my least favorite parts.


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## bulldog1935 (Mar 21, 2015)

Remembering a few more suppliers.  Bens provides great service and carries all Nitto.  Outside outfitters can have great prices (bought my chain, crank arms, cassette and loose cogs, pump and bell) - but you have to be patient, because they repackage and ship, and it can take awhile.  Jensen really humps to get parts out the door - bought my Microshift components from them.  (Universal is also really good, but they didn't have anything I needed this time.)

Wanted to give a specific kudo for a product and supplier.  
The cross racing frame has no water bottle bosses (or lugs, and holes for racks) - I bought my KlickFix bottle cage mounts from Velofred, and he also has the Best price on high-grade Brooks saddles.  From recent experience, buying the better Brooks grades is a smart choice.  
But I've tried different solutions to bottle cage mounts on bikes without bosses, the KlickFix is by far the best - easy to use and rock-solid.


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## bulldog1935 (Mar 29, 2015)

Finally got a good ride in today.  When I tried last weekend, my tire blew two miles out - not too bad to get back home.  
Looks like a casing defect - it split in two directions in the casing.  


 
Biketiresdirect was good about taking care of the warranty for me, so I also ordered a spare.  
But remembered what a chore it is to strip glue from a tubie rim.  
We were going to head out to _Sí_clovia in downtown SA, but the spring ride is on streets that are awfully narrow, and 150,000 were expected. It's really not a ride, it's a parade, and baby carriages on the double yellow line, and dogs on leashes, and really wide slow-walking families make it frustrating.  


 
my daughter was the least excited (understatement) and she suggested to my buddy's daughter and friends that we ride some place.  
Great idea.  
So we rode the 18-mi (round) lower Salado Creek trail, which is all macadam, mostly enclosed in cypress trees, and a great ride.  



that's my daughter in the wrestling shirt - she's tough.  My buddy Stevo - we've been bicycling since 6th grade. 
anyway, the bike was delightful.  Fast cozy.  No blow-outs.  As always, my daughter set the lead pace, and sprinted the last 5 miles, though I was right with her.  
Found all my sweet spots and was able to ride with relaxed grip and, best of all, relaxed shoulders. 

I think Steve was a little disappointed we didn't go to _Sí_clovia.  He wanted to show off his new creation on an 80s Schwinn frame.  


 
VO Gran Cru components, my old 36mm Honjo fenders, and a Sram 2-speed auto hub - it works great. 50-inch and 72-inch gears.  Automatically shifts (either way) about 10 mph.  
(and front dyno waiting on Peter White to deliver the lights)


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 20, 2015)

Decided to save the cross wheelset for the caliche trails, sold a couple more rods and had a road wheelset made, Miche RB hubs and Mavic ORP rims.  Scrounged my spare tires and put a Strada Bianca in the rear and the last delightfully soft Eroica up front.  Made my first 20-mi ride on this bike yesterday (rode a different bike 25 mi the day before).  Going fast on an upright is a different experience - also standing to climb with the wide reach.  Had to get my confidence back up, but fell in love with this one on the new wheels.


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 27, 2015)

had a nice weekend with a hilly 24-mi ride, and a shorter 10-mi ride on a recently flooded creek bottom paved path - broke it in well with the mud, but also cleaned it up.  The bike continues to turn heads, even among hardcore roadies.  It's not as fast as my other bikes because weight is more than 70% on the rear tire, but it is light and quick, and climbs steep hills wonderfully (best of all my bikes).  A roadie I chatted with told me the climb to my house includes a 14% grade that he uses for training.  
.  
Learned more about this frame.  It dates to '92 and the SLX is the wrong decal for the frame tubing - should be Columbus Brain.  
Found the correct frame and fork decals from cyclomondo in Australia

Also ended up changing my gearing a bit, both solving a problem and improving the ride.  The smallest 13T cog gave me a chain suck problem, though only on the big chainring - chain would grab the stay and not shift out of the small cog.  So I added an 18t cog (already had the 12t end, and 13t, 21t and 24t mids that came with the cassette).  Now the rear cassette on the road wheels is 12-13-14-15-16-18-21-24-29.  The 12-13 step solved the chain suck problem and gave me 87" and 94" fast gears, which I can use on rolling hills.   Steps are similar, but are even better in the cruising range - 63", 70", 75", 81" - this is really where we live.  As I said, chainsuck was only using the big chainring, so no reason to change gearing on the dirt wheelset, which will spend more time on the small chainring and will never need to go to a 90" gear.

Also ended up adding the Nitto R12 bag support, which saves annoyances and thigh rub by preventing the internal bag liners from sliding around and collapsing the bag forward.  (Ben's cycle had the best buy on this part, plus I had discount points from prior purchase)


 




and changed my pedals - I missed my VP-001s ("thin gripsters") that I can cannibalized from my Raleigh and replaced with older MKS Lambdas ("grip kings").  
So I sold the grip kings, moved the VPs back to the Raleigh and bought Raceface Altas in the same color as the red anodize trim that splashes the bike.  


 
Love these pedals - as long as the grip kings and as wide and thin as the thin gripsters.


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## bulldog1935 (May 5, 2015)

I rode 65 mi last weekend, and got a good photo at the halfway lake.  Now the trick is not to eat everything in sight this week


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## bulldog1935 (May 22, 2015)

Facing a new dilemma - we're ending our 8-year drought this year with El Nino rains.  We're getting so much rain, light rain counts as sunny to the weather channel.  The need for fenders became a priority, but this frame has no bosses for anything.  
While I have full fenders on my Raleigh, I want to ride this bike.  
Going over all the "quick release" fender options, most are really ugly and all are questionably functional.  
I settled on the SKS Raceblade XL, and I think I'm going to like these,  Their only real shortcoming so far is the lack of full coverage in the rear, so the FD and BB will get steady splash.  However, what's there will protect me and the bag very nicely - and they look good.  The XL's fit up to 32mm tires.  


 


ps - really good deal on these at Left Lane Sports - $36 + shipping.

_____________

solved the FD mess by adding a splash guard to the seat tube, this is actually the PDW Origimai downtube front fender, which I cut down squeezed some of the flare out of the bracket with a blow drier.  



but you can see from yesterday's 26-mi ride on a wet dirty paved route how much sand it kept off the front derailleur



so now I have full-coverage fenders which can installed in a few minutes and removed in seconds.


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 3, 2016)

Just wanted to update my cross-frame upright project from last year.  
I'm riding Compass 38mm extra light clinchers at 60 psi rear/ 40 psi front and they are light, fast and ridiculously cozy.  
A year and most of 4000 miles on this bike now (3rd rear tire).  I made it through winter by figuring a way to attach a front rack (Nitto mark's rack) using Tubus LM-1 clamps to the unifork crown and Paul canti rack mounts.  Though I had to also visit McMaster for L-brackets to attach the front rack stays.  Ely at Ruthworks made the front trunkbag for me.  A place to store weather shells and to peel layers as the day warms.
The saddle bag carries all my roadside, including fold-up tire, two tubes, a tool for every fastener. chain pieces and tool, derailleur cable, and a flat kit option of 2 oz. Stan's and 1/4 oz Zap-a-gap (which I've used and lasted until the tire tread was gone), and still room for sundries.  


 


 
I attached the headlight to the rack using a Paul Gino tapped to the M-6 of a Nitto rod bolt.  Still kept the light mount on the headset, but a front bag crops the light from that mount.  

I can't stay off this bike.  It's cozy, it's fast, it's reliable, it's versatile, and it's totally fun.  
I have to consciously choose one of my other bikes.  
Today I'm taking out my Moser go-fast to chase my friends on their tandem.


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## bulldog1935 (Jun 8, 2016)

dug up this old thread just to attach the gear analysis on my 2x9 wide compact double - after more than 4000 mi, this is a good gearset for hills and loads
Viner CX wide compact double gear analysis

ps - I bought back one of those fly rods I sold.  My friend who bought it was "changing inventory" for a new cane rod, and offered it back to me first.


 
This is a Phillipson E80, among the two best rods in this length that Bill Phillipson designed
(other is the DFS80).
This rod was never cataloged, made right before he sold the company to 3M, and is tastefully splashed with mylar


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## Eric Amlie (Jun 9, 2016)

Just saw this thread for the first time.
Very nice, and well thought out bike Bulldog.


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## bulldog1935 (Jun 9, 2016)

Thanks Eric,
having both a drop-bar road bike and semi-upright moustache cockpit bike, it was pretty easy taking all the measurements to plan the fit.
For the gears, I duplicated the essential gears from the cyclotouriste triple on my Raleigh, so it's a good bike in rolling hills, but will also get me that last 400' climb from the creek bottom to my house.


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## Eric Amlie (Jun 9, 2016)

I may take your advice and drop the big ring from a 50t to a 47t on my Superior tourist.
I almost never use those two highest gears anyway so I won't mind if they are a little lower.
Not sure I like losing that 64.3 gear though.




r.


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## bulldog1935 (Jun 9, 2016)

I can understand that, not having a gear between 60"  and 70",
I would hate to have to choose between just 70" or a 65"  - though you can get there on small-small (34T-14t)  if you have enough chain wrap (and you might be able to loose one chain link with the 3-tooth smaller ring)

There are only a couple of descents around here where I only occasionally use a 95" gear.  I could definitely live with 85" as my tallest gear.  
Take a look at 44T as your big ring - you could drop 3 chain links
Also, the 18t to 21t step on the big ring is only 8", which is a pretty nice step.


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## Eric Amlie (Jun 9, 2016)

I'm pretty sure that I have enough chain wrap for the 34-14, but I hate to cross chain to that extent, especially on a gear that I spend a lot of time in.
Is there any big advantage, other than losing a little weight, to dropping links from the chain? It's something I've never even considered as an issue, but I sure don't know everything.
At my age, I just coast on the descents and am thankful for the break.


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## bulldog1935 (Jun 10, 2016)

keeping the system as small as possible improves efficiency and reliability - yes, the gain is slight. 
The thing is, having gears you'll never use with taller gear steps in the gears you do use is a waste of potential.
Swapping to 44T big ring will narrow all the steps on your big ring and give you more gear choices that you will use. 
Run the chart (I tried to cut and paste from sheldon's calculator, but didn't work for me)

btw, you've only got 5 years on me


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## Eric Amlie (Jun 10, 2016)

Hmmmm....
Looks to me that what pretty much happens is that I just lose my highest gear and the others remain pretty close to the same.


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## bulldog1935 (Jun 10, 2016)

no, you put an 8-inch step in place of an 11-inch step right where we all live - this would be a noticeable difference.
And you said yourself you never use your 96-inch gear

all the other steps on the big ring become smaller, also, making that 57" 21t on the big ring an easily accessible approach (and start-up) gear

tinker around with the calculator down to 42T and see what it gets you


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## Eatontkd (Jun 10, 2016)

Nice Work! I really like the look of cork with the twine.


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## bulldog1935 (Jun 10, 2016)

Thanks - they're also very comfortable on long rides, but I actually use them more like hooks and palm rest than grips - I sometimes grip them.  The trick with long rides is staying relaxed, balanced, bending your elbows, not bending your wrists, relaxing your shoulders, and supporting yourself with core muscles.  Deviating from this is how you get circulation and nerve pinches.  I really like the natural position of the bars.  It took a couple of hundred miles to get the rotation of the bar at the stem just right, which also required adjusting the stem height for top tube clearance.

The nice thing about light shellac on the twine wraps is it makes a composite beneath and feels like soft fabric on the surface.
The cork grips have 7 coats spar varnish, which remains flexible, waterproof, and won't flake off.



ps - the shifters work almost mindlessly - rock wrist for knuckle contact to go to smaller rear cogs, and pull with thumb to go to larger.  This was part calculation and also luck.  It would have been easy to space them too far away from knuckle contact.


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## bulldog1935 (Jun 10, 2016)

Just some saddle info.  The black B17 Special I began with was showing undue stretch at 500 mi - the form of the frame was beginning to show through the leather.



So I sold it and bought the B17 Select, which is thicker leather.
The Select shows no significant shape change after several thousand miles.  
The point being the Special couldn't cut it with upright riding position.  I have several thousand miles on a Special on my semi-upright moustache cockpit bike, so the difference is all about riding position.


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## Eric Amlie (Jun 11, 2016)

I like the older, pebble grained top B72 for the upright riding position. It's wider in the back than the B17.
I bought a new B72 a few years ago though, and along with not having the pebble grained top, it's not as comfortable. The shape has changed. It seems more like a B66 to me. I took it off my bike and put one of the older ones on....much better.


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## bulldog1935 (Jun 11, 2016)

completely understand, my daughter has the discontinued B68S on her upright



 
(these switchbacks are a lot steeper than they look, and you need a gear below 30" to climb them)

I'm really not bolt upright on this bike, lean and vary sitting position with grade and wind.  B17 is a perfect fit for me on this one - it's downright invisible. 

On my drop bar road bike, I'm running Rivet Indy, which is narrower than B17, but not as narrow as a Brooks Swallow



another cozy distance saddle, and the cut-out provides maximum cooling


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## bulldog1935 (Jun 15, 2016)

back to the cork grips. As I mentioned, they had 7 coats of spar varnish - most of the first 4 coats soaks in, and after that, you begin to see a thin buildup on the surface.  
On yesterday's ride, noticed the varnish one one of the grips was looking sparse and wearing through.  
So the grips got two more coats of spar varnish yesterday (think thin oil  light buff with 000 steel wool, let the first coat dry and apply the second coat.  Will buff them out today with a lint-free cloth.


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## bulldog1935 (Feb 3, 2018)

Topping this for Mark with a few more recent photos


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## Mr.RED (Feb 4, 2018)

great post


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## bulldog1935 (Feb 4, 2018)

Mr.RED said:


> great post



thanks friend - it's been running a few years - over 10k mi on the bike now


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 29, 2022)

I haven't added to this thread for awhile, but there are enough positive changes on the bike to show and tell.
Along the way, I upgraded the headset to Miche Galli needle-bearing, which gives this bike even more control.



The first major change was adding aero position, which was really helpful yesterday on the exposed windy slope of the greenway summit.
I used a Nitto double lamp bracket and mountain bar ends, wrapped the whole thing:


 

 



The wide compact double has always been persnickety making the 25T to 42T climb.
This functions as two sequential narrow 1x9, one for the road, the small ring for single-track and extreme grade.
Sugino XD2 triple, Sugino rings, bright-finish 6061, and Sugino bash guard on the outside position.
The 42T Sugino middle ring and Sugino bash guard both contributed to extreme chainring wear.


 


After 10,000 mi, the Sugino 42T chainring was badly grooved.
The chainring geometry is at least part of the problem - the teeth are aligned in the center of the ramped chainring.
Also, it was possible to over-shift and get the chain jammed between the ring and outward-offset Sugino bash guard.  Dialing out the overshift with FD limit just made the ramp-climb more difficult.  I'm also using the correct Shimano CX FD to make the big climb and match the 42T big ring profile.


 


I went looking for hard-anodized 7075 ring - there are really none out there for road x2 and less than 11-sp. chain.
So I settled on a 1x ring from Wolf Tooth.  It's flat - no ramp - high square-profile teeth offset and flush to the inside edge.
Rated for 9-sp chain, and I didn't know if it would work, but I bit the bullet.  Combined with a BBG bash guard, also simple flat with no offset, good anodize color, and cost-effective.  Makes the big shift right now, no fuss, impossible to over-shift.





What's with all the bags?  This is my bike-fish rig.  Drive to a state road where you're allowed to park, then pedal to the county road crossings where you're not allowed to park a car.  A simple cafe cable lock to go around a small tree.



I have two rod options that fit in the half-frame bag, a multi-piece fly rod, and a telescoping stream baitcaster.


 


The big front bag carries my fishing bag and wading shoes (so I can pedal in dry shoes).

One more note - I went back to a double kickstand to keep the bike stable with a loaded front bag.
I like the new VO stand because the leg lengths are easily adjustable (Esge double requires cutting the legs, which you can't go back...).
It uses a long 3/8"-coarse-thread bolt to clamp the chainstays.
The thread pitch is so close, I easily tapped the kickstand plug hole to M10x1.5.
I swapped this much steel for a titanium bolt.


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