# Champion worth more than Blue Bird



## Freqman1 (Feb 5, 2013)

At the risk of throwing gas on the fire and fanning the flames I realized today as I was cleaning out my Ebay box that the Champion that recently sold ($3300) brought more than the Blue Bird that sold ($2875) and they were in fairly comparable condition! Just an observation...V/r Shawn


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## Flat Tire (Feb 5, 2013)

uh oh......yer startin somethin now!  haha
all I have to say is "Huffmans Rule"


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 5, 2013)

Ok, I'd like to be on the record as having NOT started this one...


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## militarymonark (Feb 5, 2013)

well how many members have a bluebird compared to a Champion?


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 5, 2013)

militarymonark said:


> well how many members have a bluebird compared to a Champion?




the Huffmans are definitely catching up! probably still more Bluebirds I'm guessing.


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## prewarbikes4sale (Feb 5, 2013)

*Bluebird vs Champion*

Bluebird vs Champion both are mine. I prefer the bluebird.


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 5, 2013)

prewarbikes4sale said:


> Bluebird vs Champion both are mine. I prefer the bluebird.
> http://imgur.com/4DGxpA2
> http://imgur.com/poYw7




so we'll count you as a tie... I guess...:o


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## bricycle (Feb 5, 2013)

...suspension or not, the Bluebird is way cooler looking...IMHO.


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## bikewhorder (Feb 5, 2013)

I guess when you put them side by side like that I have to go with the Bluebird, Just from a manufacturing perspective there's a lot more value in the Elgin.  They really went all out to make every part of the bike special whereas the Huffman shares more off the shelf parts with it's lowly contemporaries.  I give the Huffman the award for best tank to to be applied to a conventional style frame though.


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 5, 2013)

bikewhorder said:


> I guess when you put them side by side like that I have to go with the Bluebird, Just from a manufacturing perspective there's a lot more value in the Elgin.  They really went all out to make every part of the bike special whereas the Huffman shares more off the shelf parts with it's lowly contemporaries.  I give the Huffman the award for best tank to to be applied to a conventional style frame though.




the two bikes in question are from different eras. it's like saying Wow look at that '57 Eldorado! and then a '31 Packard pulls up. they're very different. compare the Huffman to a '40 Elgin. I suppose it still is a personal preference, I've always been gaga over the '40 Huffman, and never thought the Bluebird was that great. they could have used something other than a streetlamp for the inspiration for the Bluebird headlight. put that bird next to a nicely restored Safety Streamline and you have a better ground for comparison... and both of those make an Aerocycle look like a block of wood by comparison.
some of these things you just have to look at by themselves and decide from there.


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## ohdeebee (Feb 5, 2013)

37fleetwood said:


> and both of those make an Aerocycle look like a block of wood by comparison.




I second that! But again, sort of apples to oranges as far as time period.


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## rockabillyjay (Feb 5, 2013)

Freqman1 said:


> At the risk of throwing gas on the fire and fanning the flames I realized today as I was cleaning out my Ebay box that the Champion that recently sold ($3300) brought more than the Blue Bird that sold ($2875) and they were in fairly comparable condition! Just an observation...V/r Shawn




...That was the later 38 Bluebird, right?


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## oldwhizzer (Feb 5, 2013)

*bluebird WINS!*

I don't think 3 Years make a Era. Big tanks are nice but... not as nice as a Bluebird!


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## cyclingday (Feb 5, 2013)

As rare as it is, the 38 Bluebird has always been the least desireable of the bunch, and that one was missing some pricey stuff.
 On the other hand, that 41 Huffman Top Flite was fairly complete, with not much for the new owner to do, but put some air in the tires and go for a ride.
 Now if were talking 35-37 Elgin Bluebird versus 40-41 Huffman Champion, that's a tough call, because both bikes are fabulous in their own right. But, just on audaciousness alone, I've got to go with the Bluebird.
 That bike was without a doubt, the most spectacular bike ever built.


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## tripple3 (Feb 5, 2013)

*Affordable?*

I would love to have any of these bikes including the "Block of Wood"


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## bikewhorder (Feb 5, 2013)

*Speaking of prices...*

Can anyone comment of the value of these bikes over the years?  I had always envisioned the prices steadily ascending upward but I've read some comments on this site eluding to various price bubbles that have come up in the past.  If you were to adjust for inflation, are the prices of these bikes as high as they've ever been, if not when did they peak?


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 5, 2013)

tripple3 said:


> I would love to have any of these bikes including the "Block of Wood"




here you go...


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## Nickinator (Feb 5, 2013)

Prototype aerocycle neck.


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## Freqman1 (Feb 5, 2013)

I thought that might generate a little discussion! Actually I prefer the early Blue Bird over ANY classic bike but hey that's just me! That's also why they make different flavors of ice cream. Not everyone has the same taste or likes--and that is a good thing. As a lot of you know I am not loyal to any one brand or make but appreciate the beauty and engineering in most of them. I own Shelbys, Huffmans, Schwinns, Westfields, Monarks, CWC, Elgins, and Murray (see my gallery pics). Its actually amusing to me that some people seem to take it personal when someone offers an opinion on style, ride, engineering, etc... . I buy something because I appreciate it and I don't need group validation to make me feel good. If I've offended anyone I apologize but I just try to have fun--like this thread. I have met some truly great people through the CABE and hope we can keep this light hearthed while still advancing the body of knowledge on classic bicycles by being inquisitive, sharing, and remaining passionate-to a point! V/r Shawn


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## cl222 (Feb 5, 2013)

prewarbikes4sale said:


> Bluebird vs Champion both are mine. I prefer the bluebird.



I get that i wish i could have one and when will i have one feeling when i look at a bluebird! It is and always will be my favorite bike.


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## redline1968 (Feb 5, 2013)

i quess since the  tanks are being repoped for the huffy it makes me even happier for my bluebird.


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## Andrew Gorman (Feb 5, 2013)

At least the Bluebird has pedals!


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 5, 2013)

redline1968 said:


> i quess since the  tanks are being repoped for the huffy it makes me even happier for my bluebird.




funny you say that there has recently been talk about repopping the Bluebird frame...


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## redline1968 (Feb 5, 2013)

yep.. and all the rest of the missing stuff too  just love love love it. hey  that would be nice a repop i can ride and beat the sh--t out of it and call  it a huffy .   id would like  have one of those repops.


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## Coaster Brake (Feb 5, 2013)

37fleetwood said:


> here you go...






Nickinator said:


> Prototype aerocycle neck.
> View attachment 82934




Wait, what are these things? I have never seen or heard of them.
I wish to know more


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 5, 2013)

Coaster Brake said:


> Wait, what are these things? I have never seen or heard of them.
> I wish to know more




that's the famous Aerocycle block-o-wood...


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## scrubbinrims (Feb 5, 2013)

A lot of the things I was going to say have been said, but back to the original price comparison, the missing chainguard on the '38 bluebird was a major disadvantage.
I personally would have gone all in on it if it had just that one additional piece...the rack I would deal with later....it's not like a big tank guard which is nothing special.
Discounting the '38 bluebird that Nick scored here, I have seen the LeRoy Hartung bluebird sell twice and both times eclipsing $3,300.
I wasn't really keeping tabs on the bicycle bones repainted '38 bluebird, but suffice to say that a nearly complete late bluebird will land at a higher value than a '41 non-lit big tank considering the jroposa bike and the offering by easywind now residing in sunny CA.
These are the only recent public sales I know regarding these 2 models.
When considering a lit tank '40, that is another story which in many cases will outpace a '38 bluebird, but over a 35-37 bluebird in similar condition is crazy talk...ever seen a big tank in any configuration or condition sell for 10K?
I haven't and there's a reason for that even being arguably more rare (unquestionably in a twinflex).
Chris


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## slick (Feb 5, 2013)

Well, i go with the Bluebird over the Huffman any day. Even the 1938 Bluebird. The big tank bikes just have too many awkward lines on them. None of the lines flow at all? The bullnosed fat faced tank looks like the hood of a 1950 Chevy pickup with the front fenders where the lights in the tank are, the springer fork support rods have a sharp bend that don't compliment the tank at all, almost like a brick wall coming at you then all of a sudden a rounded tank, the rear rack floats too high over the rear fender then drops down at the tail, etc....Just not sexy at all to me. Now the 3 rib SS Huffman is a much better improvement if you ask me. The lines from the tank flow with the lines of the frame much better. The beak chainguard also follows the lines of the frame in the raer also. Much better. 

On a side note, i assembled Karlas Elgin Skylark the other night and DAMN that is one sexy bike! The lines are killer. And whoever designed the way everything goes together was a genius! It's like a concept car that accidentally got put into production which never happens. Or if they do, they look awful compared to the prototype.

But overall......I still love my Speedline Airflow. Just look at the lines! The bottom angle of the handlebars where it slopes down runs parallel to the top of the tank over the headlight, the top portion of the bars are parallel to the ground,the bottom on the front o the tank matches the curvature of the fender top, the curved front fender brace matches the same curve on the front of the chainguard, the guard matches the tank shape as it narrows down in the rear like the tank tail, should I continue? HAHA!!!


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 5, 2013)

slick said:


> Well, i go with the Bluebird over the Huffman any day. Even the 1938 Bluebird. The big tank bikes just have too many awkward lines on them. None of the lines flow at all? The bullnosed fat faced tank looks like the hood of a 1950 Chevy pickup with the front fenders where the lights in the tank are, the springer fork support rods have a sharp bend that don't compliment the tank at all, almost like a brick wall coming at you then all of a sudden a rounded tank, the rear rack floats too high over the rear fender then drops down at the tail, etc....Just not sexy at all to me. Now the 3 rib SS Huffman is a much better improvement if you ask me. The lines from the tank flow with the lines of the frame much better. The beak chainguard also follows the lines of the frame in the raer also. Much better.
> 
> On a side note, i assembled Karlas Elgin Skylark the other night and DAMN that is one sexy bike! The lines are killer. And whoever designed the way everything goes together was a genius! It's like a concept car that accidentally got put into production which never happens. Or if they do, they look awful compared to the prototype.
> 
> But overall......I still love my Speedline Airflow. Just look at the lines! The bottom angle of the handlebars where it slopes down runs parallel to the top of the tank over the headlight, the top portion of the bars are parallel to the ground,the bottom on the front o the tank matches the curvature of the fender top, the curved front fender brace matches the same curve on the front of the chainguard, the guard matches the tank shape as it narrows down in the rear like the tank tail, should I continue? HAHA!!!




you're a funny and disturbed young man...


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 5, 2013)

scrubbinrims said:


> A lot of the things I was going to say have been said, but back to the original price comparison, the missing chainguard on the '38 bluebird was a major disadvantage.
> I personally would have gone all in on it if it had just that one additional piece...the rack I would deal with later....it's not like a big tank guard which is nothing special.
> Discounting the '38 bluebird that Nick scored here, I have seen the LeRoy Hartung bluebird sell twice and both times eclipsing $3,300.
> I wasn't really keeping tabs on the bicycle bones repainted '38 bluebird, but suffice to say that a nearly complete late bluebird will land at a higher value than a '41 non-lit big tank considering the jroposa bike and the offering by easywind now residing in sunny CA.
> ...




these two may be as fair a comparison as they get in a way.the '41 is a second tier model in the less desirable year, as is the Bluebird in question.
another thing I would like to point out is that as far as I know both bikes Mike posted photos of could be had, and both would run in the same price range.
that is unless you would like to lower the price of the Huffman to make the Bluebird look more valuable?


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## 2jakes (Feb 5, 2013)

*Repops ?*



37fleetwood said:


> funny you say that there has recently been talk about repopping the Bluebird frame...




I have owned the Western Flyer, Columbia , RoadMaster & the Black Phantom repop bikes.

I have wondered why these specific models were remade & not the ones mentioned here.
What was the criteria ? Also, If you had a choice..which want would you pick & why ?
With regards to a model never having been repop before .
This is just a "what if " ?


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## old hotrod (Feb 5, 2013)

In a word...none...I haven't seen too many painted/restored bikes I would want to own, let alone a repop...but that is just me...love the originals...


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## 2jakes (Feb 5, 2013)

old hotrod said:


> In a word...none...I haven't seen too many painted/restored bikes I would own, let alone a repop...but that is just me...love the originals...




 I Love my originals too, but I would like to see one & see what it's all about.


Here's one that I used to ride that felt like riding on a "piece of wood"...






but....that's just me !...


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## slick (Feb 5, 2013)

The Schwinn Aerocycle,Egin twin bar 60, and the 37 Roadmaster supreme are the last 3 on my "NEED" list that i would throw some serious coin down for. There are others bikes i like and would love to own but my top 3 are the only ones worth thousands of dollars to blow in my opinion.


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## Dan the bike man (Feb 6, 2013)

Yep to each their own. I like all bikes with tanks. Those who have posted their bikes for us to see, thank you, they are all beautiful, the original, and repainted any brand.



Freqman1 said:


> I thought that might generate a little discussion! Actually I prefer the early Blue Bird over ANY classic bike but hey that's just me! That's also why they make different flavors of ice cream. Not everyone has the same taste or likes--and that is a good thing. As a lot of you know I am not loyal to any one brand or make but appreciate the beauty and engineering in most of them. I own Shelbys, Huffmans, Schwinns, Westfields, Monarks, CWC, Elgins, and Murray (see my gallery pics). Its actually amusing to me that some people seem to take it personal when someone offers an opinion on style, ride, engineering, etc... . I buy something because I appreciate it and I don't need group validation to make me feel good. If I've offended anyone I apologize but I just try to have fun--like this thread. I have met some truly great people through the CABE and hope we can keep this light hearthed while still advancing the body of knowledge on classic bicycles by being inquisitive, sharing, and remaining passionate-to a point! V/r Shawn


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## HARPO (Feb 6, 2013)

prewarbikes4sale said:


> Bluebird vs Champion both are mine. I prefer the bluebird.




INCREDIBLE bikes!!! BEAUTIFUL!!!!!


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## cyclingday (Feb 6, 2013)

I've got to agree with Slick on this one. That springer on the Huffman looks like something out of the Shelby styling department. I like the look of the big tank, and the tail light, but that is about it. Not enough going for the big tank Huffman to warrant spending thousands of dollars for. If Huffman had evolved the Super Streamline to incorporate the big tank and the lit rack, then that bike would have been a show stopper.
I guess all of these bikes have their, woulda, shoulda, coulda's.
Most folks know that I am not a big fan of Shelby's.
The Speedline Airflo is a classic example of a bike that has so much going for it, but one styling mis que just kills it for me.
The junction where the tail of the tank and the rack, (that looks like a spare part from a Sherman tank) are just so blocky, that it ruins all of the other absolutely gorgeous attributes of the bike.  Hold your hand over the rear portion of the Airflo photograph, so that all you see is the front of the bike. Now do the same, covering just the front portion of the bike. The front end is spectacular, but the back end, is a styling abomination.  It's just a case of the old saying, that beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder.

QUOTE=slick;205961]Well, i go with the Bluebird over the Huffman any day. Even the 1938 Bluebird. The big tank bikes just have too many awkward lines on them. None of the lines flow at all? The bullnosed fat faced tank looks like the hood of a 1950 Chevy pickup with the front fenders where the lights in the tank are, the springer fork support rods have a sharp bend that don't compliment the tank at all, almost like a brick wall coming at you then all of a sudden a rounded tank, the rear rack floats too high over the rear fender then drops down at the tail, etc....Just not sexy at all to me. Now the 3 rib SS Huffman is a much better improvement if you ask me. The lines from the tank flow with the lines of the frame much better. The beak chainguard also follows the lines of the frame in the raer also. Much better. 

On a side note, i assembled Karlas Elgin Skylark the other night and DAMN that is one sexy bike! The lines are killer. And whoever designed the way everything goes together was a genius! It's like a concept car that accidentally got put into production which never happens. Or if they do, they look awful compared to the prototype.

But overall......I still love my Speedline Airflow. Just look at the lines! The bottom angle of the handlebars where it slopes down runs parallel to the top of the tank over the headlight, the top portion of the bars are parallel to the ground,the bottom on the front o the tank matches the curvature of the fender top, the curved front fender brace matches the same curve on the front of the chainguard, the guard matches the tank shape as it narrows down in the rear like the tank tail, should I continue? HAHA!!!   

[/QUOTE]


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## 2jakes (Feb 6, 2013)

Freqman1 said:


> I thought that might generate a little discussion! Actually I prefer the early Blue Bird over ANY classic bike but hey that's just me! That's also why they make different flavors of ice cream. Not everyone has the same taste or likes--and that is a good thing. As a lot of you know I am not loyal to any one brand or make but appreciate the beauty and engineering in most of them. I own Shelbys, Huffmans, Schwinns, Westfields, Monarks, CWC, Elgins, and Murray (see my gallery pics). Its actually amusing to me that some people seem to take it personal when someone offers an opinion on style, ride, engineering, etc... . I buy something because I appreciate it and I don't need group validation to make me feel good. If I've offended anyone I apologize but I just try to have fun--like this thread. I have met some truly great people through the CABE and hope we can keep this light hearthed while still advancing the body of knowledge on classic bicycles by being inquisitive, sharing, and remaining passionate-to a point! V/r Shawn




*+1*...


























**********


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 9, 2013)

ok, how much is a Bluebird worth?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bike-1940-F...531?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c44fa89b


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## slick (Feb 9, 2013)

I love this one but i'd say it's a $5k bill. $6k TOPS! Just my opinion.


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 9, 2013)

slick said:


> I love this one but i'd say it's a $5k bill. $6k TOPS! Just my opinion.




and that is why you'll never own one.


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## slick (Feb 9, 2013)

Because i'm smarter then the average bear? LOL! $6k is a lot of money for a bike. That right there can buy some serious hot rod material that i can drive like a 1932 Ford frame in roller condition. Drop on a body and be big pimpin like John Milner himself. I miss my 32 Ford 5 window. Some of the money bought my black speedline though. Rather have the 32 though.


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## Talewinds (Feb 9, 2013)

37fleetwood said:


> ok, how much is a Bluebird worth?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bike-1940-F...531?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c44fa89b




How much is a Bluebird worth? Less than that.... But again that's just an asking price, as always.

I made the statement in another thread weeks ago, some members choked on their Cheerios upon reading it and then disregarded it flatly as heresy, lest the mighty Bluebird get toppled from its assumed top spot.

The '35-'36 BB is an incredible and lust-worthy bike. I want one. It's a stupendous triumph in design.

I'll stand by my OPINION, the Big Tank Champion Twin-Flex is a more scarce and more valuable bike.


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## John (Feb 9, 2013)

slick said:


> Because i'm smarter then the average bear? LOL! $6k is a lot of money for a bike. That right there can buy some serious hot rod material that i can drive like a 1932 Ford frame in roller condition. Drop on a body and be big pimpin like John Milner himself. I miss my 32 Ford 5 window. Some of the money bought my black speedline though. Rather have the 32 though.





http://www.ebay.com/itm/1930S-CIRCU...722?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item257a9567ba

Here is for you smart bear


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## slick (Feb 9, 2013)

John said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1930S-CIRCU...722?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item257a9567ba
> 
> Here is for you smart bear





HAHA!! I actually like that. And it isn't too far from me. Wonder if i can fit on it to ride on a Cyclone Coaster ride? Fully polished and looking killer! Belt might start slipping in the hot sunny socal weather though. Hmmm..... It's like a mini silver king. HA!


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 9, 2013)

John said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1930S-CIRCUS-BEAR-BICYCLE-VERY-STRANGE-NEVER-SEEN-ONE-FROM-ESTATE-/160970401722?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item257a9567ba
> 
> Here is for you smart bear




Good one John!!!


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## slick (Feb 9, 2013)

*Striking resemblance or just my imagination???*

Hmmm......the 40 Huffman looks A LOT like this 39 Nash. Huffman playing copycat from the car manufacture?


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 9, 2013)

slick said:


> Hmmm......the 40 Huffman looks A LOT like this 39 Nash. Huffman playing copycat from the car manufacture?



Chris, I'm going to say this is a prime example of where you miss the point. if you really wanted to know what Huffman was going after, you need to look at the Indy cars of the day.


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## OldRider (Feb 10, 2013)

That Firestone TwinFlex auction that just ended will likely set the new benchmark for the early big tanks in this condition. Its a stunningly beautiful bike but waaaaaaaaaaaaay outta my little league ballpark.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bike-1940-F...531?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c44fa89b


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## John (Feb 10, 2013)

slick said:


> HAHA!! I actually like that. And it isn't too far from me. Wonder if i can fit on it to ride on a Cyclone Coaster ride? Fully polished and looking killer! Belt might start slipping in the hot sunny socal weather though. Hmmm..... It's like a mini silver king. HA!




Hey Slick,
You can get this riding outfit too.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bear-Mascot...0710192677?pt=US_Costumes&hash=item2a132ab625


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## oldwhizzer (Feb 10, 2013)

*Big tank*

Scarce does not always make it worth more money. For the last 25 years Bluebirds have brought top dollar!


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## slick (Feb 10, 2013)

John said:


> Hey Slick,
> You can get this riding outfit too.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bear-Mascot...0710192677?pt=US_Costumes&hash=item2a132ab625




I'd rather be Smokey the bear so i can wear the kool hat. HAHA!!


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## slick (Feb 10, 2013)

In all honesty though, we all jumped off topic. The comparison was a 38 Bluebird vs. the big tank Huffman. The last 36 Bluebird on ebay that was fully restored sold for $13,500. It was local to me and i did see it in person. Beautiful bike. This last Bigtank that had the buy it now of $9,900 didn't sell. The auction was pulled. So that doesn't count as a comparison if we don't know what it went for or if the seller was just seeing who would bid? So as far as the 38 BB vs the bigtank, i'd rather have the rarer 38 BB. Too many Big Tanks have popped up lately. They are starting to be as common as a Black Phantom. If there are this many just on this site, and ebay, imagine how many more are out there where the people don't know about the Cabe or just simply won't share what's in their collections?


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## bike (Feb 10, 2013)

*Welll*



slick said:


> Too many Big Tanks have popped up _*lately*. _They are starting to be as common as a Black Phantom_ [hmm]. _If there are this many just on this site, and ebay, imagine how many more are out there where the people don't know about the Cabe or just simply won't share what's in their collections?



[EMPHASIS MINE]  "Lately" is a big thing- a coupla cases of early bb speedos were found and they were selling speedos for $15- where are they now- still once in a while a small bunch turn up- either there is a savvy seller sitting on them so as not to crush the price or several people stocked up on them at ~15---  for a while it seemed elgin skylarks were everywhere I knew a guy who got 3 in a month -then Huffman crows beaks were left and right(10 years ago) then something else then 10 nos plastic Colson tail lights-case of nos hextube headlights- recently robins and tanks- and huffmans- if rarity is the only key the deluxe(proper term?) 38 bluebird is probably it with 2 speed and embossed guard- I stopped counting early bbs when I hit the mid hundreds years ago- they are valued by car collectors deco/streamline collectors etc who probably would not consider any other bike.- Something shows up in a bunch synchronicity or what ever and people think AH COMMON a couple years later and WHERE DID THEY GO?- I have seen runs of a few 38bbs without a big tank Huffman on the market within a year. 

The internet has certainly changed the PERCEPTION of rarity- you used to have to network on the phone snail mail and swaps. Now you just use your phone on the toilet or driving- does not seem that rare- and with Watch you see a thing sit- before watch the standard way to keep track of an item, and before they hid user ids, was to bid- so you saw lots of players (handles in bid history) marking things with token bids and the race was on- much more fun then

just my observations.


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## bobby jimmy (Feb 10, 2013)

*my dad can beat up your dad*

The BB vs Big tank is kinda one sided with the BB coming out on top. Really don't need to carry this much further, right. Ain't never seen a BB in person and maybe never will. If I want to see or buy a big tank that just takes a few phone calls. If I want to ride a Huffman I just go to the garage. Now throwing out a statement like Big tanks becoming as frequent as Black Phantoms? I can't throw a snowball without hitting a Phantom. Anybody can collect Schwinns and finding a tank for one is like shopping for underwear. I could probably trade my 1937 putter stem for a complete Phantom but would have to give up my 3 Huffmans for a BB.


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## Freqman1 (Feb 10, 2013)

bobby jimmy said:


> The BB vs Big tank is kinda one sided with the BB coming out on top. Really don't need to carry this much further, right. Ain't never seen a BB in person and maybe never will. If I want to see or buy a big tank that just takes a few phone calls. If I want to ride a Huffman I just go to the garage. Now throwing out a statement like Big tanks becoming as frequent as Black Phantoms? I can't throw a snowball without hitting a Phantom. Anybody can collect Schwinns and finding a tank for one is like shopping for underwear. I could probably trade my 1937 putter stem for a complete Phantom but would have to give up my 3 Huffmans for a BB.




Juat curious if you have a Super Streamline to go with that putter stem? V/r Shawn


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## bobby jimmy (Feb 10, 2013)

*putter*



Freqman1 said:


> Juat curious if you have a Super Streamline to go with that putter stem? V/r Shawn




No sir. My stem came from a La France. The Huffman company when building bikes did put together some models with various parts at the end of the assembly line. Some badges and bikes would have been put together to get em out the door. Not every Streamliner or Champion looked like the catalog as the workers sometimes put together the parts they had. This info came from a gentleman who spoke with former Huffman family members and employees.

I think the beauty is in the eye of the owner. I am bias and love the Huffmans and really don't like the look of the BB. Probably because I can't have one. Some love Shelby's others Silver Kings but just cause a Spacelander is impossible to find doesn't mean it ain't ugly.


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## babyjesus (Feb 11, 2013)

*That Bluebird on Ebay*

Was a later one - not the same!  If I found a Bluebird I'd buy it over almost anything, but I haven't found one yet!  The Champ is up there though, especially Mikes Twin Flex one - you can't get much better than that, and I love green too 

I think the safety/super streamliners are also up there.

But find me an early Bluebird and I swap any of those bikes for it if I had to.

But the 38 bluebird looks like a Robin with an incredible shroud basically. And not the cool low slung Robin, the less cool high slung one. Infact isn't it a Robin frame and robin fenders on the later bluebird?  ...if the one recently on ebay had the leaf sprung saddle - BB rack - BB pedals - BB stem - triple drop wheels then maybe, but the one on ebay had one thing from nothing on it. The insane BB shroud/tank thingy - and nothing else particularly exciting other than a cool incorrect fender ornament.

To me that bike was worth the shroud/tank. 

Anybody got an early Bluebird they want to sell? Let me know if you do, please.

Relative to the title of this thread - it depends by what you mean when you say Bluebird.


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## Nickinator (Feb 11, 2013)

The 38 that sold on ebay was missing only the rack, other then that the bike was complete for a
38 fall standard model. The 38 bluebird did not come with robin fenders, I think for its rarity the 38 is worth more (to me) then any early bluebird model.

Nick. 



babyjesus said:


> Was a later one - not the same!  If I found a Bluebird I'd buy it over almost anything, but I haven't found one yet!  The Champ is up there though, especially Mikes Twin Flex one - you can't get much better than that, and I love green too
> 
> I think the safety/super streamliners are also up there.
> 
> ...


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## babyjesus (Feb 11, 2013)

*Early Bluebird*

I work with cars of all ages - I help organise 3 different historic racing series and I also work for a magazine that reports historic motor racing (historicmotorracingnews.com - its a crappy website being redone as we speak) - and I get to see just about any car you can imagine at these
race meetings I go to. Some of them are so rare they are one off's - we have a Ferrari GTO (not a 275 GTB) in our series, you cant get rarer
or more beautiful than that sort of thing in the car world.. Pontoon fender Ferrari's - 70s prototypes - Lolas Chevrons - muscle cars - pre war car
single seaters of all years shapes and sizes - sports cars - jaguar C types, D types, Astons, Alfas ....there are so many!

but

I'd take an early BB over any of them. I just have a thing for bikes and the early BB has to be the most amazing thing ever built.
....but the Twinbar 4 Star Deluxe is incredible- There is no thing of greater beauty but I'd swap my best one for the BB just cuz the BB is impossible to 
find whereas I could find another 4 Star TB. 

....followed by the super/safety Streamliners and then the big tank Huffmans - then there's the rest of the Twinbars with all the pricey junk on them.

but I'd still drop any of my bikes for an early BB.  None of them for a late BB.  I am dying to have a BB. I know of one I might have a tiny chance of 
getting one day but thats a long shot - it's a good one - orig and in such good shape.  

But for as long as there are no BBs around then the big lit tank Huffys and super streamliners are just as crazy beautiful and amazing.

What do you do when you like them all so much - each for their own different reasons?  
Look at Jerry Bergs Super Stream - I'd give my firstborn for that if I had one. 

The big lit tank huffy might be more rare than a BB though.  One can only speculate. It's a top dollar bike. 

It's so hard sometimes to be hopelessly in love with all of these incredibly beautiful and rare bikes


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## babyjesus (Feb 11, 2013)

Nickinator said:


> The 38 that sold on ebay was missing only the rack, other then that the bike was complete for a
> 38 fall standard model. The 38 bluebird did not come with robin fenders, I think for its rarity the 38 is worth more (to me) then any early bluebird model.
> 
> Nick.




You are right - it must be rarer. You just don't ever see them - and that alone gives them huge value from a collector/investment point of view.


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## 2jakes (Feb 11, 2013)

*Blue Bird*

In unrestored condition, what is the going price for this bike ?


_'38 Elgin Bluebird by Sears_


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## dfa242 (Feb 11, 2013)

2jakes said:


> In unrestored condition, what is the going price for this bike ?




Do you mean today or four years ago when it brought $4,500 at Copake?


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## babyjesus (Feb 11, 2013)

2jakes said:


> In unrestored condition, what is the going price for this bike ?





Without the suicide shift 2 speed I assume?

But with the battery box, lens, everything intact like the one in the pic - must be quite alot actually but I don't know ....somebody?

It looks pretty nice I must say - it just has a bit of an upward angle which I find looks a awkward - maybe it's the pic angle.


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## babyjesus (Feb 11, 2013)

dfa242 said:


> Do you mean today or four years ago when it brought $4,500 at Copake?




The complete 2 speed setup today has to be worth well over a grand.  

Does anybody know how much that part alone is worth? 

But the bike without it seems like it would be worth more than 3 or 3.5 today so for the whole package it must have gone up in value.


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## scrubbinrims (Feb 11, 2013)

That bicycle is from Copake a few years ago and the price is documented, although if memory serves, it is surprisingly lower than I would expect anyway.
As far as this '38 bluebird, in gunmetal gray OP, battery box, musselman 2-speed shifter, ornament, etc...is exactly how I would want this bicycle.
Just my opinion (and my money taken from 401K), I would bid it up to 5,500.00-6,000.00....there is no absolute value, just my assessment.
Chris


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## 2jakes (Feb 11, 2013)

dfa242 said:


> Do you mean today or four years ago when it brought $4,500 at Copake?




Today ! 
There's an antique event in the spring ( Round Top ) & it's about over a mile long . People
bring their stuff to sell. Old bikes & was wondering what the going price would be.
I remember one person buying Schwinn motor bike with the rare bullet ornament. paid
$200. The seller was happy. But it's worth more. If you saw the Blue Bird in unrestored
condition & the seller was selling it for $500. Would you pay that ? Knowing that it's worth
more .These items are brought to be sold as is from people who are mainly there to sell.
Not collectors. For them they are just old junk. Or would you offer more ? I guess what 
I'm trying to find out is what would be a fair price knowing what you know about the bikes.
Would you pay what the seller was asking & keep quiet or offer more ?


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## dfa242 (Feb 11, 2013)

2jakes said:


> Today !
> There's an antique event in the spring ( Round Top ) & it's about over a mile long . People
> bring their stuff to sell. Old bikes & was wondering what the going price would be.
> I remember one person buying Schwinn motor bike with the rare bullet ornament. paid
> ...




Okay, now that's a whole different question - for that bike, I'd probably give the guy $1000 and make us both happy.
I've actually done similar things at flea markets with non-bike stuff.  Every once in a while, though it's happening less and less often, people really don't know what they've got and they're incredibly appreciative when someone does the right thing and throws a little more money at 'em.  Unfortunately with bikes, it's usually the other way around and I can't make an offer for even half what they're asking.


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## 2jakes (Feb 11, 2013)

dfa242 said:


> Okay, now that's a whole different question - for that bike, I'd probably give the guy $1000 and make us both happy.
> I've actually done similar things at flea markets with non-bike stuff.  Every once in a while, though it's happening less and less often, people really don't know what they've got and they're incredibly appreciative when someone does the right thing and throws a little more money at 'em.  Unfortunately with bikes, it's usually the other way around and I can't make an offer for even half what they're asking.




To dfa242....Thanks for the reply...I really appreciate it.

I can relate about the bikes.  Except for one time..

A young man was given an old bike by uncle who passed away.
This guy knew I liked old bikes & told me he was getting rid of
his "peewee herman bike"...too heavy he says.
I didn't pay much attention. Next time I saw him, I was riding my
"old" Phantom. He asked me if I was still interested ? I asked him
what was the brand ? He didn't know except that it had the same
heavy springs on the front. He wanted $100. I gave him $300.
(complete red phantom '55).


Also bought a German Leica screw-mount 35mm complete with 
wide/telephoto & Leica filters leather cases for $35 @ flea market.
The guy bought bulk items from estate sales for a quick buck.
And for him that's what he got.


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## redline1968 (Feb 11, 2013)

give him the 500.00. if he's dumb enough to not reasearch the bike then thats what he gets. but if i was apraising it it would be a different story. i would tell him or her what its worth and make an offer.


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## 37fleetwood (Mar 2, 2013)

babyjesus said:


> I work with cars of all ages - I help organise 3 different historic racing series and I also work for a magazine that reports historic motor racing (historicmotorracingnews.com - its a crappy website being redone as we speak) - and I get to see just about any car you can imagine at these
> race meetings I go to. Some of them are so rare they are one off's - we have a Ferrari GTO (not a 275 GTB) in our series, you cant get rarer
> or more beautiful than that sort of thing in the car world.. Pontoon fender Ferrari's - 70s prototypes - Lolas Chevrons - muscle cars - pre war car
> single seaters of all years shapes and sizes - sports cars - jaguar C types, D types, Astons, Alfas ....there are so many!
> ...



if Huffman made a car...


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## babyjesus (Mar 2, 2013)

*Car!*

Nice car - that would have to be at Amelia Island Concours D'Elegance. Not a recent winner, perhaps from some years ago?  My familly had a Talbot who's bodywork was also designed in Portugal by Figoni and Falaschi - looked remarkably similar and was my favourite car by a long shot. - they did amazing bodywork, the extreme of Art Deco. I think you are right - it would be a Huffman   My father's one was light/dark blue but amazingly similar looking if you consider it was a Talbot and not a Delahaye.
Figoni and Falaschi were consigned to do body work by many major makes of the time. Amazing guys. Their nicknames are Phoney and Flashy 





It had beautiful chrome waves along the bottom. Easily my fave car from that period. He sold it


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## bikewhorder (Mar 3, 2013)

When you start comparing bikes to cars it make this hobby seem incredibly affordable.  In terms of collectibles in general its probably near the bottom from an investment standpoint.  I mean for $10,000 you can get some of the most sought after bikes in existence.  Since I joined the Cabe I know of at least 3 Bluebirds that have been listed for sale, so finding one is clearly not impossible. All it takes is money!


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## Nickinator (Mar 3, 2013)

Its true, my 70 mach 1 cost me more than my collection, and it needs restoring still.



bikewhorder said:


> When you start comparing bikes to cars it make this hobby seem incredibly affordable.  In terms of collectibles in general its probably near the bottom from an investment standpoint.  I mean for $10,000 you can get some of the most sought after bikes in existence.  Since I joined the Cabe I know of at least 3 Bluebirds that have been listed for sale, so finding one is clearly not impossible. All it takes is money!


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## babyjesus (Mar 3, 2013)

bikewhorder said:


> When you start comparing bikes to cars it make this hobby seem incredibly affordable.  In terms of collectibles in general its probably near the bottom from an investment standpoint.  I mean for $10,000 you can get some of the most sought after bikes in existence.  Since I joined the Cabe I know of at least 3 Bluebirds that have been listed for sale, so finding one is clearly not impossible. All it takes is money!




I agree - I feel particularly lucky that for years I have had a collector friend who has many great, top of the line bikes and he has willingly sold them to me on a monthly payment basis. Alot of the bikes I have now I could never have afforded to buy on ebay or wherever- in one payment.  For years I was send him a few hundred bucks a month. Slowly as my job got a bit better I was able to pay him a bit more each month. I think without this I wouldn't have some of my favorite bikes which I have now. At the moment I am working 2 jobs where time allows so I've gone nuts spending on bikes. Sad thing is I don't then have the time to really enjoy them and work on unfinished ones I just found parts for.  

I have found if you really want something and you offer a bit more than asking price with condition that you can pay over time there are sellers who are happy to oblige. All they have to do is wait for the money to get to them and send you the bike. All you have to do is be patient and save up each month. Alot of bikes I could not pay for in one go but I could in 2. If you get paid on a monthly basis from your job a seller only has to wait a month. I successfully made agreements on ebay with sellers in this way too. Lot of nice people in the hobby in my opinion, who are happy to help you out. I usually offer some extra bucks for the favor because for me it is totally worth it without question. 

Cars are another thing - one car costs an entire collection of bikes in many cases.  - lucky for me I don't have a driving license so I am not even tempted - especially because its part of my job to be surrounded by nice old cars of all ages.


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