# Miami chainring minutiae



## zephyrblau (Dec 3, 2018)

happy to have an appropriate chainring for my project but this spacing for the engagement pin is a new one on me. 
none of my cranks fit! 
so... while I search for the correct cranks (hint, hint) I'm wondering if the spacing of this chainring indicates a certain time 
in the evolution of Miami bikes. 
all of my cranks have a spacing of 1 3/8" on center. this one is 1 5/8" on center. (or 1" from the edge of the axle opening to the pin opening. hopefully my crude markings make sense)  
am I over thinking this ? am I crazy ? 
answer the second question first


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## redline1968 (Dec 4, 2018)

Nope your not nuts....they are a Different in spacing. Specific for Miami only... even the bits are specific to it... hard but not impossible to find.


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## hoofhearted (Dec 4, 2018)

In addition to @redline1968 's proclamation ...
some rings have a small, drive-pin portal ....
some do not.

Building a Miami from parts acquired from
different places is not for the impatient.

The manufacturer was once one of the
largest producer of an array of wonderful
bicycles and motorcycles.   Today, every-
thing Miami-built is elusive.

Have observed more Racycle stuff over the
years .. but even those fall numerically-short
compared to Davis relics.

If you're looking for a non-frustrating teen's
machine to build .. or just to find a few missing
parts to add to a machine that needs limited
attention to get it ready to ride .. or, maybe
just display ... stick with Westfield and Schwinn.
Great Bicycles ... plenty of availability.

But .. if you are steeled to walk the labyrinth ...
and are guided by a patient soul ... go ahead ...
ride the Lightning that Miami built.

..... patric


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## mongeese (Dec 4, 2018)

Miami bikes are like the “Warriors” , the best.


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## Wcben (Dec 5, 2018)

I never thought finding “the right” parts would take sooooo long!  Now that I have most of them, it’s just a matter of paint, learning how to pin stripe, engraving logos back in, plating and re-assembly....  I had to find handle bars, Hager nuts and bolts, the right hubs, rims... even though the bike was already “complete”... yeah, I’d love to find a set of my “dream” pedals but they are not going to hold me from finishing this up!


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## bentwoody66 (Dec 7, 2018)

Wcben said:


> I never thought finding “the right” parts would take sooooo long! Now that I have most of them, it’s just a matter of paint, learning how to pin stripe, engraving logos back in, plating and re-assembly.... I had to find handle bars, Hager nuts and bolts, the right hubs, rims... even though the bike was already “complete”... yeah, I’d love to find a set of my “dream” pedals but they are not going to hold me from finishing this up!



What dream pedals might that be?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## zephyrblau (Dec 7, 2018)

bentwoody66 said:


> What dream pedals might that be?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk




yes... inquiring minds want to know


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## bentwoody66 (Dec 7, 2018)

I heard tale of a set of pedals that were attached to a bike at the ML summer swap that had Miami stamped in them?

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## Wcben (Dec 7, 2018)

I love the Ramsey pedals


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## Wcben (Dec 7, 2018)

bentwoody66 said:


> I heard tale of a set of pedals that were attached to a bike at the ML summer swap that had Miami stamped in them?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk




I’d love to see those!


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## bentwoody66 (Dec 7, 2018)

Wcben said:


> I’d love to see those!



I was there a day late to see them. Heard that the buyer tried to buy just the pedals but the seller wouldn't take them off of the girls bike they were attached to.

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## Archie Sturmer (Dec 9, 2018)

1.  Not sure. 
2.  Re-measured a junior set today at 2" c-c --- for a ~1" crank, and ~3/8" drive pin hole, that would be about 1-5/16" metal 'landing' between holes.


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## bentwoody66 (Dec 9, 2018)

hoofhearted said:


> In addition to @redline1968 's proclamation ...
> some rings have a small, drive-pin portal ....
> some do not.
> 
> ...



I'm riding it with clenched teeth Patric!!!!!

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## zephyrblau (Dec 9, 2018)

Archie Sturmer said:


> 1.  Not sure.
> 2.  Re-measured a junior set today at 2" c-c --- for a ~1" crank, and ~3/8" drive pin hole, that would be about 1-5/16" metal 'landing' between holes.




could be the right cranks for this chainring; 

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/flying-merkel-1-pitch-sprocket.143267/


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## Archie Sturmer (Dec 14, 2018)

zephyrblau said:


> could be the right cranks for this chainring; flying-merkel-1-pitch-sprocket



Thanks, learning about Miami & Merkel Minutiae the hard way.
Miami 1-5/8" (unique);
Merkel 2" (among others);
Both with oversize crank/cone thread diameters, (ugh).


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## hoofhearted (Dec 14, 2018)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Thanks, learning about Miami & Merkel Minutiae the hard way.
> Miami 1-5/8" (unique);
> Merkel 2" (among others);
> Both with oversize crank/cone thread diameters, (ugh).




@Archie Sturmer

*Young man ... your testimony, above ... is a partial demonstration
of the difficulty of locating replacement  parts on a Miami-Built ... 
or going into the business of building (from found parts) a full-on F-M.*

*Any reader that truly believes that scratch-building any Miami machine
is a walk in the park ... well, let's see you go for it -- then tell us about
your experience.  No Need To Report All Those Times Where You Cried Like A Baby. *


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## zephyrblau (Dec 14, 2018)

hoofhearted said:


> * No Need To Report All Those Times Where You Cried Like A Baby. *




sshhhh.... not so loud


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## Archie Sturmer (Dec 15, 2018)

I was thinking, when typing "unique" there might be others...


Not sure about this one, 1-5/8" C-C with a 'spider' and 5/16" pin hole (or metric), and common 15/16" diam. shaft; might be a (pre-Pope/Westfield) Crescent?
Almost there on the Flying Mackerel tribute.
 
Found the frame without any badge holes.
 
Still looking for those $50 black & chrome decals.


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## SKPC (May 21, 2021)

Bumping this Miami Chainring thread back up.  A recent discovery of a Miami made Flying Merkel motorbike............................... https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/unknown-fresh-find-what-year-model.191640/   piqued my interest in these early machines as I very much admire the moto(r)bike-era cycles quite a bit.  About the same time this post was up, I stumbled upon a questionable, dark red primer on one side and black paint over primer on the other, what appeared to be a fairly low mile Miami sprocket _Flying Merkel _related. 
      I took a chance on it as I was suspicious initially.  Here are some before and after photos after receiving it and gently cleaning the paint off.   1-3/8" drive pin spacing with small 5/16" drive pin hole.
Before.....






After.












A pleasant surprise!


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## Archie Sturmer (May 21, 2021)

The Miami cranks with the small drive pin, and the odd offset dimension, may be challenging to find.


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## szathmarig (May 22, 2021)

I have the same chain ring on mine.


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## Freqman1 (May 22, 2021)

szathmarig said:


> I have the same chain ring on mine.View attachment 1416372



How is this bike badged? V/r Shawn


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## szathmarig (May 22, 2021)

Westminster Simmons Hardware


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## SKPC (May 22, 2021)

One more possible Miami ring for prosperity. Also posted recently on the chainwheel compilation.   Not sure how I came by this one, but it fits my Emblem, 2" drive pin offset crank.  Only Miami and Emblem apparantly used a 2" offset drive pin c/c. Most likely from the same maker, but who was the maker?  D&J?  The ad with the motorbike from 1917 when blown up matches this ring pretty good.


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## bentwoody66 (May 22, 2021)

hoofhearted said:


> In addition to @redline1968 's proclamation ...
> some rings have a small, drive-pin portal ....
> some do not.
> 
> ...



And if Davis and Miami wasnt bad enough, try searching for Consolidated Yale stuff!


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## szathmarig (May 23, 2021)

I have a Yale crank set for sale. Crank, and chainring, but missing the bearing set.


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## Archie Sturmer (May 23, 2021)

szathmarig said:


> I have a Yale crank set for sale. Crank, and chainring, but missing the bearing set.



A member had previously indicated (with linked picture) that your “*Yale*” crankset was a more-common Westfield product.


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## SKPC (Jul 8, 2022)

Year long  bump on Miami Chainring Minutia. Here are some other observations with photos. As so far understood,  Miami really had a wide variety of Rings and Arms.  D&J specific _Assemblies _into the mid teens(?) and the simpler, more common _One Piece crank arms with rings_ mid-teens(?) through 1923. I do not know if these D&J/Miami cranksets and assemblies were all being made in-house or in another location up until Westfield took over.  .  One-piece *crankarms and rings *on teens through 23 Miami machines are many, complicated and needs further work.  The arms themselves are mysterious things to me.   These non-center drive crank arms and rings were on so many Miami models and seem quite varied.
        A ring and crank I picked up that I have not seen in any advertising lit. yet.   ASturmer believes it is _Miami_ made, but not sure as I haven't seen it before in 1/2" pitch.  It does have the 15/16th center opening, 1-3/8" drive pin spacing and the small, 5/16th drive pin hole. Any other insight would be appreciated.






I have seen forge stampings on Miami ARMS with both a *"D"* that fits the 1" chainring hole/1-3/8" drive pin spacing and a *"B"* like on_ the above crank arm_ but fitting the smaller 15/16th chainring hole/1-3/8" pin spacing.  Is this how you tell what ring(15/16 vs 1") that the ARM fits properly?



 Below @Krakatoa  picture of his possible Miami dogleg arm and ring he had for sale.  Nate, do you still have this for some measurements?









. The sweetheart Miami below has a 1" center opening, 1-3/8" hole spacing and small 5/16th" drive pin hole.



Miami's other Merkel-related* 2" drive pin* spaced one-piece Crank Arms also had the _smaller_ 15/16th sprocket hole but_ larger_ 3/8 drive pin hole.


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## Krakatoa (Jul 8, 2022)

Long sold sorry no data


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## SKPC (Jul 9, 2022)

SKPC said:


> Miami's other Merkel-related* 2" drive pin* spaced one-piece Crank Arms also had the _smaller_ 15/16th sprocket hole but_ larger_ 3/8 drive pin hole.



_Incorrectly_ stated above.  Lets try again.  The *2" drive pin* spaced cranks/rings had the _larger, 1" _, *not* a 15/16th center hole.  Oversized, 24tpi, 1" cone threads on the drive side with the odd 2" spacing on the drive pin.  I have seen a few busted 2" spaced drive pin crank arms l and perhaps the stiffer nature of them made for less flex and more failures near the thin area? Speculation.



Notice the Schwinn headset race cup threaded on the 1" drive side?


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