# Wald stem on a 60's Schwinn?



## dirtman (Mar 24, 2022)

I looked at a mid 60's Schwinn middleweight today that was listed on FB for a long time, the guy swears he's the original owner and its never left his possession since new.  The bike is in really nice shape overall but two things don't match my memory of old Schwinn bikes. 
First was the fact that it has a stamped steel Wald stem, the second was a set of Hunt Wilde grips, the third was a set of 26x1.75/559 tires on it. The bike had an Schwinn Approved Hub that looked like an old Perry hub. 
The saddle, frame, forks and crankset all looked right, as did the fenders with chrome braces still attached with real rivets. 
He made a point of telling me he was the original owner and that he bought it himself when he was 17 to use at college. 
He swore up and down it was 100% original. 
I chocked it up to either the failing memory of an old man because I know Schwinn never made a middle weight with anything but S7 rims in those days. But how about the stems? Did they ever cheap out and use plain wald stems? Every last Schwinn I've ever had used the Forged Schwinn stems that are on nearly all the old Chicago Schwinns. 
I had another guy selling a similar bike a few months ago on CL that also had a Wald stem on a 62 Fleet, he swore up and down it was how it came back in 1962, but none that I've ever owned came that way. 
The only thing I can't understand is why anyone would toss a solid forged Schwinn stem for a stamped steel Wald stem back in the day. If your riding a '62 Schwinn Fleet with two chrome steel racks, a newsboy basket, and full length fenders your certainly not doing it to save weight.


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## GTs58 (Mar 24, 2022)

From what I've noted over the years, Schwinn started using the rolled stem in 1953 on the Spitfires. From then on, they were used on all the lower end bikes like the Tornado, Typhoon, Buddy, Debbie, Hornets and multiple other budget models. I've never owned a bike with that type of stem so I can't say who made them. Schwinn may have made their own in the 60's at some point but Wald may have had a patent on them at the beginning. Schwinn did use the rolled stems and usually the models that had them also had bolted on kickstands, at least during the 50's.

Rolled stem and bolted on stand.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Mar 25, 2022)

dirtman said:


> I looked at a mid 60's Schwinn middleweight today that was listed on FB for a long time, the guy swears he's the original owner and its never left his possession since new.  The bike is in really nice shape overall but two things don't match my memory of old Schwinn bikes.
> First was the fact that it has a stamped steel Wald stem, the second was a set of Hunt Wilde grips, the third was a set of 26x1.75/559 tires on it. The bike had an Schwinn Approved Hub that looked like an old Perry hub.
> The saddle, frame, forks and crankset all looked right, as did the fenders with chrome braces still attached with real rivets.
> He made a point of telling me he was the original owner and that he bought it himself when he was 17 to use at college.
> ...



The "62 Fleet came with a rolled stamped stem , as Typhoons after that


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## bloo (Mar 25, 2022)

Yep, they used those Wald stems on lower end bikes, I've seen them on Americans too.

What model was it? Like you, I have serious doubts 559 rims could have been original. How sure are you the rims were 559? Long ago there may have been a few S7 tires marked "1.75".


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## Rivnut (Mar 25, 2022)




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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Mar 25, 2022)

re those Silvertown tires?


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## Rivnut (Mar 25, 2022)

Yes they are (were); they were sold for a display bike.


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## dirtman (Mar 26, 2022)

I've owned at least a dozen Typhoons over the years, my first 26" bike back in the 70's was a 1965 Typhoon, all had forged chrome stems.
I currently have 7 various Schwinn 3 speed models, (3 Travelers, 2Racer, 1 Speedster, and 1 Varsity Tourist), all have forged stems. 
Until seeing the last two bikes I looked at, I had never run across a 'rolled steel stem on a Schwinn unless it was a cheap replacement. 
I do know that Wald made two versions of the stamped steel stem over the years. Back in the day they were just referred to as a model 3 or model 4, the #4 was a bit heavier steel and didn't have all the stamped in lines, it had a smoother finish overall. 
The heavier version was usually found on cheap tandems, newsboy type bikes and cheap BMX bikes back in the day. 

I've also never had a Schwinn with a bolt on kickstand, even my old (1949) Schwinn World had an integral stand. 
Of course I'm talking about 26" bikes, nothing smaller, even as a kid, I never had a 20" bike, I learned to ride a bike on an old 40 something Goodyear ladies frame model that my dad bought for $5 at a flea market in the late 60's. It was coated top to bottom in red house paint, tires and all. Even before I could touch the ground riding it, I'd run along, put a foot on the frame and hop on and ride. By the time I was 6 or 7, I was big enough to ride even my dad's old Rollfast. 

What would have determined which stem a bike got? The Fleet I looked at had a kick back two speed hub, chrome fenders, bars, and the stamped stem, it had a horn tank and a straight bar type frame. It also had a Schwinn scripted headlight and tail lamp that were fitted to the fenders with factory rivets. 

The Typhoon I looked at was supposedly a one owner 1972 model, nearly identical to one I have now but with a stamped stem and a longer double brace front fender. 
It would take a page or more to list all the Schwinn bikes I've had over the years, and at least two dozen still remain, none had the rolled stem. 
I bought a his/her's pair of 1965 single speed bikes last month, a red Racer, and a violet Breeze, both 26", both have chrome fenders, forged stem, and a RB1 rear hub on S5 rims. Likely the cheapest adult models sold that year. 
If it were lower end models that got the rolled stems, I'd have figured that pair would be prime candidates but they had sparkling clean chrome forged stems. 

Maybe the stamped steel stem was partly a regional thing?


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## GTs58 (Mar 26, 2022)

If a bike that was spec'd with a rolled stem is found with a forged stem, it was most likely changed out. Every new model year was a box of chocolates and parts on the same model were changed. The Typhoon was upgraded by the 70's since all the other middle weight models were no longer around, but it still had the rolled stems in 1966. Go thru the catalog pages and look at what stem the different models had. 1966 Typhoon Deluxe spec sheet. Rolled stem.


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## Rivnut (Mar 26, 2022)

Schwinn part #7551, pictured below and described as "pressed metal."  




Here's a page from a 1959 Schwinn catalog that gives the part number for each piece.  The stem is described as part #7551.  Rolled (pressed) stems did come as standard equipment on some bikes.


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## GTs58 (Mar 26, 2022)

Looks like 1970 was the year Schwinn did away with the stamped/rolled stems. After a closer look it seems the design was slightly changed. The bends, face and chinch bolt position are different.


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## Jeff54 (Mar 26, 2022)

dirtman said:


> I've owned at least a dozen Typhoons over the years, my first 26" bike back in the 70's was a 1965 Typhoon, all had forged chrome stems.
> I currently have 7 various Schwinn 3 speed models, (3 Travelers, 2Racer, 1 Speedster, and 1 Varsity Tourist), all have forged stems.
> Until seeing the last two bikes I looked at, I had never run across a 'rolled steel stem on a Schwinn unless it was a cheap replacement.
> I do know that Wald made two versions of the stamped steel stem over the years. Back in the day they were just referred to as a model 3 or model 4, the #4 was a bit heavier steel and didn't have all the stamped in lines, it had a smoother finish overall.
> ...



Yup dirt, there's some with bolt on kick stands too. Most surprising is the 50's straight bar Chrome S2 and Springer: Deluxe Hornet. There's a few others post war, I ferget which exact models cept to say, no kick stand means, a little easier to figure out when made and what model.

As others say, the Wald pressed plate stem? There's lots of em where I have seen down to 1951 and into the 70's Including models that you'd expect better than that. Wald is found, I believe, Schwinn issued at least 3 different types. early 50's pressed and one that almost resembles a Razor stem and snub nose kind is in the mix too. think there's one more I ferget. And in the lightweight division, there's at least one Frenchie AVA death stem 69 super sport,., some others, approved or whatever that's not quite up to par.

Moreover U may have missed more  Wald verities B/C all three I mentioned in heavy and middleweights can be found on girl's bikes more frequently. I have 2 53 ladies, one has razor looking  version that I have seen on others, the other snub nose version and worse but because of what it is: a 54  24" Chartreuse and black Starlet, W/Plate Wald stem, and white s2's, on a bike like this: who cares.  And a girl 63 Hollywood W/plate Wald. IDK for sure B/C, I have not been recording when  pop up on very good condition originals. Yet it's been on my mind after seeing more and more that, it seems Schwinn began adding Wald's as early as 1949 especially in lady/girls on BFG or others branded for large Stores in none Schwinn catilogs. .


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## bloo (Mar 26, 2022)

I am fairly sure I have seen bikes on the showroom floor at the local Schwinn store in the mid-late 70s with Wald stems.


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## GTs58 (Mar 26, 2022)

bloo said:


> I am fairly sure I have seen bikes on the showroom floor at the local Schwinn store in the mid-late 70s with Wald stems.




I think you're correct. Was the style changed in 69 or so looking like this piece? Marty has a 1970 that fooled me but after looking at his pics again I can see that it's one like this. Pretty deceiving at a quick glance and even from this angle.


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## bloo (Mar 26, 2022)

I don't think so, I think it was the typical Wald thing with the grooves, as seen on so many Huffys. Only cheaper Schwinns though as I recall.

The other day, when I was down some internet rabbit hole, I saw patent drawings for an Ashtabula stamped stem. I think that might be what is on the green bike, if it is indeed stamped. It is hard to tell.

I suppose they could have been the smooth ones. Maybe I just saw the carriage bolt and recoiled. 🤪


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## GTs58 (Mar 26, 2022)

So it seems this style came into play around 1969-70. Little 20 incher.


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## Jeff54 (Mar 26, 2022)

bloo said:


> I don't think so, I think it was the typical Wald thing with the grooves, as seen on so many Huffys. Only cheaper Schwinns though as I recall.
> 
> The other day, when I was down some internet rabbit hole, I saw patent drawings for an Ashtabula stamped stem. I think that might be what is on the green bike, if it is indeed stamped. It is hard to tell.
> 
> I suppose they could have been the smooth ones. Maybe I just saw the carriage bolt and recoiled. 🤪



Solid Ashtabula stamped stems [Albeit, I never took the stem off to check], and forks may also be around 1978 on a few of Schwin's mock BMX bikes; like this I'd had some time ago:.


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## bloo (Mar 26, 2022)

That looks like a forged stem in the picture, isn't it?

This might be what I saw. I had no idea they dipped their feet into the cheapie sheet metal stem business, and I still wonder. It's just a patent. Maybe it never made production. On the other hand maybe it is what we see on the green bikes posted above. Anyhow, there's no visible carriage bolt sticking through the patented stem, so I still think I've seen Wald on 70s Schwinns.

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/78/78/64/30377f77ef801d/US3385615.pdf

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/98/b2/c1/56107eae379436/US3361455.pdf


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## GTs58 (Mar 26, 2022)

E-gads, I think you solved the mystery @bloo ..... That's the stem and it must have shown up at least by 69 on the Typhoons. 
It definitely looks deceiving at a glance and appears to be a better piece than the Wald.


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## dirtman (Mar 27, 2022)

These are what I have around here for stamped steel stems.

I've seen the first one also marked Wald No 4 on the quill. This one has only Pat. No. D-204182 on the side
The middle one, the 314, is what I saw recently on a Typhoon, serial number (AJ314388), a green 26" Typhoon with chrome fenders, chrome S7 rims, and a Mag type front sprocket.
The other one I saw was a Gold 26" Typhoon with a four hole sprocket, chrome rims, fenders, and the serial number FA210100.
Both had Wald 314 stems, matching sparkle Schwinn grips, matching S saddles, etc. 

The Wald 314 is what I'm used to seeing on Huffy and old AMF bikes from the 70's, not Schwinns. This one is dated 1977.
The 3144 stem is newer, dated 1982. 
The smooth stem, does not say Made in USA, it only has the Pat. No. on it. 
The same stem is sold today as a the Wald #4.
My guess is that the smooth version was the beginning of offshore production for Wald. 
Compared to the 314, the #4 stem is heavier, with thicker steel throughout but with a more open throat area. 
The steel is likely thicker to make up for the open design. This one has a random '4' stamped on the side, it may be for the model #4, or be a date code. 

I thought about going back to get the one Typhoon, but it needed too much work. The paint was rough, and both rims were badly rusted, plus it both tires were all but splitting open from age. 
The cost of finding a good pair of S7 rims and then the cost of a pair of new tires would no doubt exceed the value of one of those bikes here. I've listed some decent looking Typhoons and have never been able to get more than $100 for really pristine versions here. I get more replies when I list a Huffy or Walmart Schwinn than I do for any quality Chicago bike.




This is what I'm used to seeing on nearly all adult upright bikes like the Typhoon, Heavy Duti, Fleet, American, Corvette, Speedster, Racer, Traveler, Breeze, Hollywood, and every other adult Schwinn bike I've had that didn't have drop bars on it. 
I have seen a few alloy stems but never on bikes, they all came to me via old shop cleanouts.  All of the Continentals and Varsity models I've had came with forged drop type stems. 


Typical Schwinn Forged Stems. I've also seen these same Ashtabula stems on other 
brand bikes from the 50's and 60's.


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## PCHiggin (Mar 27, 2022)

I’ve had several  original early 60’s, entry level Schwinn middleweights with that stem. I still have an all original ‘62 Debbie with one. Nothing unusual.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Mar 27, 2022)

dirtman said:


> These are what I have around here for stamped steel stems.
> 
> I've seen the first one also marked Wald No 4 on the quill. This one has only Pat. No. D-204182 on the side
> The middle one, the 314, is what I saw recently on a Typhoon, serial number (AJ314388), a green 26" Typhoon with chrome fenders, chrome S7 rims, and a Mag type front sprocket.
> ...



I have had a few Typhoons with the first of the three stems you show. It has the recess underneath to allow it to clamp tightly on the bars. I have had the other 2 types make contact with itself before the bars were completely  secure and I had to really crank on it to tighten it well. I have had that type flex and squeak as well. That first style is actually a really solid reliable stem.


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## dirtman (Mar 27, 2022)

The Schwinn stem has to be different than the Wald stem on the left above, according to the patent info that stem didn't come about till 1984. 
If the stems I saw were different than the common Wald stem I'd have probably just assumed it was just something I hadn't seen before but they were both Wald 314 stems. 

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with the Wald stems, they work fine and are probably lighter than the forged stems but there's just something about seeing that heavy, highly polished chrome forged stem that says SCHWINN to me. It just seems wrong to see a Wald stem on a Chicago Schwinn. 
I do realize though that Wald built their fenders, bars and seat posts, and they outsourced the forged stems, forks, and cranks as well. Their hubs were nearly all outsourced as well. Saddles were mostly Messinger back then too. Schwinn really only manufactured the frame and rims. The rest was just painting and assembly.


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## Majdotkool (Mar 27, 2022)

Happy coincidence you guys are talking about middleweight Schwinn stems,  while stripping down our 57 Starlet the other day we noticed this stem. The lady that we got the bike from said it was hers as a child. Any chance this stem is original? I couldn’t find much on it while researching.


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## GTs58 (Mar 27, 2022)

Majdotkool said:


> Happy coincidence you guys are talking about middleweight Schwinn stems,  while stripping down our 57 Starlet the other day we noticed this stem. The lady that we got the bike from said it was hers as a child. Any chance this stem is original? I couldn’t find much on it while researching.
> 
> View attachment 1595881
> 
> View attachment 1595882




That undoubtedly was replaced. The Starlet during that time was a high end piece with the forged stem. Interesting stem though, looks like it was galvanized verses being chromed.

As for some of the budget Schwinn models, the Typhoon model evolved from the Tornado and from day one these were always equipped with the rolled stem. The Spitfire model was another one that had that stem during its run. In the early 40's and 50's the Hollywood was a loaded high end model and then during the 60's it was a base model that had the these stems. I don't collect or buy the models that have the rolled stems but if I did the first thing I would do is replace it.


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## GTs58 (Mar 27, 2022)

Now here is something that I might be interested in, but I'd have to change out the stem. @Hastings just posted this cool piece in the Sunday Show and Tell thread. The beginning stages of Schwinn using the Wald stems, a 1954 Hornet. Also notice the detachable kick stand.


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## Rivnut (Mar 27, 2022)

I have a number of late 50s through the 60s middleweights and they all seem to fit the high end / base class findings.  The Jaguar, Corvettes, Fairlady, Starlet III, and DeLuxe American have the forged stem.  The Hollywood, Typhoons, Speedster, and Tiger have the rolled/pressed stems.

It's a real coincidence that GTs58 should post a picture of a '54 Hornet at this time. I have a 1954 girls bike that is to become a Hornet because when I got it, the built in kickstand had been broken off the frame. So it's getting a Schwinn's 'Detachable' kickstand  I'm glad that he posted the picture because my '54 has a forged stem but there's a rolled stem on the shelf waiting for this bike's number to roll around.


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## Rusty Klunker (Mar 27, 2022)

Every 60s typhoon and Hollywood I've seen has had this stamped stem. Dont know if schwinn made it or farmed it out. And like GT said if it has a forged one it was surely changed.

Funny thing as kids with our stingrays we kinda laughed at the huffy stamped stems. But I had a buddy that liked to do burn outs on his ray. On the trails or any little patch of sand on the street he was always doing it. Well one day on the trails he snapped the forged Schwinn stem doing it just ahead of the anchor bolt. We were in metals shop at the time so he made a nice looking 1/4 plate, welded it on and made some aluminum clamps... it didn't look bad.

Gonna make a rider out of this as soon as I can get the stem out.


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## Jeff54 (Mar 27, 2022)

bloo said:


> That looks like a forged stem in the picture, isn't it?
> 
> This might be what I saw. I had no idea they dipped their feet into the cheapie sheet metal stem business, and I still wonder. It's just a patent. Maybe it never made production. On the other hand maybe it is what we see on the green bikes posted above. Anyhow, there's no visible carriage bolt sticking through the patented stem, so I still think I've seen Wald on 70s Schwinns.
> 
> ...



Yes, the 1978 Hornet has a forged stem is same as chromed but there's none, it's  blackish, and appears to be the exact same as other parts embossed with Ashtabula branding the BMX riders  liked so much.. Acordinly, it's been long understood that  Ashtabula forged forks were made for CWC pre-war and Schwinn, at least post war and every since, until Schwinn crooked off in the 80's.

Yet while I don't think anybody has evidence but I see no reason why  Ashtabula would not have made Schwinn's chromed solid stems too.

And I forgot, my 56 racer has a stamped plate stem on it.


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## dirtman (Mar 28, 2022)

That green '54 Hornet got me thinking a bit, I have a neighbor down the road who's in his mid 90's now, he's got a red Hornet hanging in the back of his garage. I tried to buy it several times but he's saving it for his grandkids.
The bike is red, has no tank, has painted fenders, a sweetheart sprocket, Typhoon cord tires, black grips, black saddle, pull back bars with a forged stem, and a huge chrome casting on the tip of the fender that he said he added. The bike has a massive front basket on it. I remember him showing me how he made custom mounts with leather to protect the chrome when he put it on there. I remember the serial number was an L with almost all 5's and ending in a 1, maybe L555551 or maybe I missed a 5, not sure. I used to deliver newspapers myself as a kid, I had wanted that bike for my own use but he wouldn't sell it then either. Its not moved in at least 45 years that I know of. (It was still hanging there last summer when I stopped to see how he was doing). 
His doesn't have the Schwinn rear rack, its got a huge black steel rack with an old wire milk crate attached to it with twisted wire. 
It doesn't have a tank, but the paint scheme is like the green one above. Otherwise its on par condition wise with the one above as well. 
(He also had a 57 Raleigh Sports that I did manage to get him to sell me about 30 years ago, but that bike wasn't his, it belonged to his father-in-law.).
I did take the Hornet down off its hooks for him years ago, I pumped up the tires and oiled the chain a bit and rode it up and down his driveway but he wouldn't part with it. These days it still hangs on the back wall of his garage, but there's a dead '75 Olds wagon backed up to the wall right below it with four flat tires that hasn't run in 25 years or more. To get the bike down, the car has to move. The car is blocked in by a slew of old furniture, boxes and stuff he said came from his in-laws place when they passed away years ago.

I wonder if the level or exact model determined what stem a bike got? Maybe just low end versions got the cheaper stems or was it just luck of the draw?


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## GTs58 (Mar 28, 2022)

dirtman said:


> That green '54 Hornet got me thinking a bit, I have a neighbor down the road who's in his mid 90's now, he's got a red Hornet hanging in the back of his garage. I tried to buy it several times but he's saving it for his grandkids.
> The bike is red, has no tank, has painted fenders, a sweetheart sprocket, Typhoon cord tires, black grips, black saddle, pull back bars with a forged stem, and a huge chrome casting on the tip of the fender that he said he added. The bike has a massive front basket on it. I remember him showing me how he made custom mounts with leather to protect the chrome when he put it on there. I remember the serial number was an L with almost all 5's and ending in a 1, maybe L555551 or maybe I missed a 5, not sure. I used to deliver newspapers myself as a kid, I had wanted that bike for my own use but he wouldn't sell it then either. Its not moved in at least 45 years that I know of. (It was still hanging there last summer when I stopped to see how he was doing).
> His doesn't have the Schwinn rear rack, its got a huge black steel rack with an old wire milk crate attached to it with twisted wire.
> It doesn't have a tank, but the paint scheme is like the green one above. Otherwise its on par condition wise with the one above as well.
> ...




For the first few years that the Hornet was produced it had the forged stem and built in stand. The Green one above has the Schwinn Spitfire head badge and that confused many people since the Spitfire model was also being produced. The Spitfire name was coined by Schwinn in 1939 I believe. They produced a low budget model that came with no Quality decal and it did not come with any warranty or with any extra options and only in Red. Schwinn called it a Spitfire and the model designation was Z. This bike was to draw in customers and the salesmen were suppose to upsell to a better model. It's a pretty hard to find bike today but they do show up. The 50's and later Spitfire models were just about as low as you could go and continued being Schwinn's lost leader. So it seems that when the Hornets were somewhat downgraded with the detachable stands and rolled stems they were equipped with the Schwinn Spitfire head badge.     

Heres some interesting info on Spitfire.









						Prewar Schwinn "Z" Models | All Things Schwinn
					

This appears to be 1941ish due to the 6" headtube on the ladies models. I always wondered what the story was with these "non-cataloged" models, and here is all of the info about them straight from the factory. Obviously a "C" style frame, but the unique specs make them a Z.  I don't think I have...




					thecabe.com


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## schwinnbikebobb (Mar 29, 2022)

Don't know if this really add's anything but in my paperwork sorting I looked stems up.  Interesting they call #4 a McCauley stem. Probably expected but no mention of Wald.


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## dirtman (Mar 31, 2022)

Going by the pics in that catalog page, those stems are not the same as the Wald 3 and Wald 4 found on other bikes. #3 is a rolled steel stem but the clamp bolt is not a through bolt, so it must have a captured nut within the stem, and #4 is longer, and made very different from the common Wald stems. 
These are not what I'm finding around here lately, the stems I find are either actually Wald stems or direct  copies of one.  
There's always the possibility that the sellers of those bikes here are just clueless or just bike flippers telling a tale to sell the bike too, but a few I felt were likely actual original owners, but after 40 or 50 years, anything is possible with a used bike.

The fact that they put Schwinn Approved at the top of that page like that tells me that nothing there was made by Schwinn and was outsourced. The forged stems were most likely Ashtabula made. 

I dug through my boxes and one huge barrel of steel stems I have here and found a ton of Wald 314 and 3144 stems, a few later style Wald stems, a few dozen Schwinn forged stems, and about 30 or so unidentified earlier forged stems off old bikes but not a one matching either # 3 or #4 above. The barrel and several boxes were from a couple of huge clean outs I and a buddy did over the past few years.  
It wasn't a complete waste though, I did weed out about a hundred bound for the scrap pile due to hammer marks, rust or other damage. 
I put a few in the rust tank to see what they look like after a good soak. Maybe I'll post a few pics of the various stems in hopes to ID some of the unknown models when I get a chance.


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## bloo (Mar 31, 2022)

Was the Wald sheetmetal stem available in more than one size? If so, did it have a different number?

The internal diameter of Schwinn's steerer tube changed in the middle 60s, so those Wald stems used in the 50s would no longer fit.


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## GTs58 (Mar 31, 2022)

The #3 stem in the Catalog is noted *Type 66 only*. That's the one that I've seen on the late 60's Typhoons. Ashtabula? The Schwinn steerer tube I.D. changed in 1966 and all the OD's on those stems are 13/16


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## bloo (Mar 31, 2022)

What does Type 66 mean?

If I am reading that page correctly all listed stems are 13/16, and you can buy a shim to the older size if you need one. The 50s Walds would be bigger....


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## dirtman (Mar 31, 2022)

We were always told that the Schwinn Cranks, forged stems, blade forks were all made by Ashtabula Steel & Foundry Co. in Ohio. 
I believe the cranks by Ashtabula got the SA mark on them.
They produced for many manufacturers but Schwinn was likely their main buyer of bike parts. 

As to the two bikes I looked at, I'm leaning toward both having had their stems and likely bars swapped out since I don't see any proof that Schwinn flat out just used Wald stems during that period. If they're not in the parts book, they likely didn't use them then. 

Would you agree that a Wald 314 never belonged on a Schwinn?


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## bloo (Mar 31, 2022)

I think they did it. I remember seeing stems like that in the Schwinn showroom with the carriage bolt in plain view.

Maybe my memory is faulty. Or maybe what I saw were "McCauley" stems, #4 in the page above. It looks identical to me. How would you distinguish a Wald 314 from that? It wasn't the #3 (Ashtabula's stamped sheetmetal stem?) because you can't see the bolt from the top on that one.

What size is a Wald 314? Does it come in both sizes? Wald's current catalog is calling it (or something just like it) a #4 rather than #314. It only comes in the smaller size. They will sell you a shim if needed, like Schwinn will do in the catalog page above. Those 50s bikes that had Wald stems would have taken the larger size. I doubt they came with a shim... did they? How did that work? Was the 314 in 2 different sizes or did Wald have another model number for the second size?

The catalog page posted above is dated 1975, and I am thinking it was more like 1977-1980 when I might have seen Schwinns with stamped sheetmetal stems.

It was generally understood in those days that the Schwinn forged cranks and forged stems came from Ashtabula Forge. In fact not all of them did but a lot of them did.


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## schwinnbikebobb (Mar 31, 2022)

It's nice to be a little more organized.  Here is the 79 parts book page.  Note that Wald is now mentioned but with a asterisk that not Schwinn or Schwinn Approved.


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## dirtman (Mar 31, 2022)

Ashtabula made heavy forgings and castings, no sheetmetal that I know of. They started out making bow sockets and forgings for horse drawn carriages, later moved into making parts for early cars such as convertible top pieces and crank handles, and then started making bicycle stems, cranks, and forks. They were around for a 100 years, roughly 1881 to 1982. 

The bikes originally in question, mid 60's to early 70's then should not have had the common Wald stem, which appears to have more lines stamped into it then does the earlier Schwinn version. 
If the Wald stem didn't appear in the parts books till the late 70's, is it safe to say they weren't used on earlier bikes? 

The stem in the middle is what I found on the bikes in question. The ywo outer stems are just newer model Wald stems.



Wald Stems, (in order, late model 4, original 314, model 3144)


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## Rusty Klunker (Mar 31, 2022)

The ones I have are similar to the middle one only without the groves.


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## rustndust (Mar 31, 2022)

As a kid I had five 26" Typhoons between the ages of 9 and 17. The first one, which was a hand-me-down from a cousin was a '63 model in flamboyant red. I still remember the serial number JA30012.
I got the bike missing its fenders and with a huge basket on the front. The bars were solid rust as was the forged stem. It took a 7/8" stem, I remember because I had bought a new stem and bars from the dealer and it came with the shim. I opted to clean up the original stem and use the new bars. 
I fixed that bike up like new, fresh paint, decals, fenders, all original Schwinn, it cost me about $30 to do back then.  Its wheels were in good shape and didn't need anything but some cleaning, as were the original Westwind tires. I rode the bike delivering newpapers for two years. It started to pop spokes after the second year so went to the dealer for a new set of spokes, and came away with a new bike, a copper tone 1969. ser. AE36610 rode home on the new bike, dragging the other bike along side in one hand. I dug around stuck some used spokes in the missing holes and sold the old bike a week later for nearly what I paid for the new bike. My parents were livid because I sold it rather than handing it down to my brother. I used the Copper '69 for the rest of that summer, and had enough cash for another bike, I went looking to get a new Varsity or similar bike but this time my parents were there and I left with a new Campus Green 1970 Typhoon, my brother got the old bike but my dad kicked in half the cost of the new one. Both the 69 and 70 models had forged stems, I still have the bars and stem off the 70 because I later bought a new stem, bars, and grips for a Heavy Duti model and swapped out the whole thing as one piece. The thought was I'd wrote down the serial number of the '70 on the wall in the garage, which I still own, it was EF40070, again, that bike had a forged stem. 
My next bike was sort of new, I kept my 1970, but while at the dealer getting a new tube, they had a 1972 there that had come in damaged, also in green. Something had fallen on the back wheel and fender and they had put it aside in the back. It needed a rim, a few spokes, and a new fender. I made a deal for it as-is for $38 out the door and I carried it home on my back, along with a new rim, a dozen spokes, and a set of new fenders they gave me with it. I had that bike till a few months ago), the serial number was EH37733, again that had a 13/16" forged stem. Still delivering papers at that point I made that bike my newsboy bike and sold the '69, and gave my brother the '70. A few months later I gave him the paper route and the '72, and I went back to the dealer and bought another brand new bike to use for school, a red 1973 Typhoon that I got on a Christmas sale. I remember that serial number because the serial number happened to be the price on the hang tag (AJ05599). It was on sale from $64.99 down to $55.99. 
I had that bike only a short time, I let a buddy borrow it when his motorcycle was in the shop and he got it run over by a truck. He had chained it up to a pole and a truck climbed the curb and mangled the bike. He bought me a new one a month later, that one was green, serial number FK10065, also with a forged stem, chrome fenders etc. I kept that for a few years and traded a buddy for a blue '74 Varsity that he wasn't using, and he wanted the Typhoon for his son. 
I just sold the Varsity back to him after 40 some years. 

I looked at a black 1970 Typhoon a few months ago, it had a stamped steel Wald stem, a ton of rust, and Schwinn bars. The stem didn't fit well, and my guess was it was just thrown in there to sell the bike as the bars were loose enough for me to work out of the stem by hand. The owner swore up and down it came that way with the Wald stem, and the Hunt Wilde grips it had. I highly doubted it and chocked it up to an old man's bad memory.
It needed rims, spokes, bars, a stem, and likely some paint work so I passed. The owner swore up and down he bought it new and it was 100% original. 
The stem and grips were a red flag that made me walk away, (that and he wouldn't budge off of $100 for it). My take was that they likely broke the bolt off in the old stem and stuck what ever they had in there. I've seen a few smaller Schwinns with the stamped stems in the 70's but they all had a circled 'S' on the side of the stem. They were not Wald grooved stems. They may have gone to them in later years, after Chicago closed but I can't picture them just sticking a stem from a department store bike on a model like the Typhoon. 
I've owned probably 20 Schwinn bikes over the years, ranging from the mid 50's to the late 80's  and not one had a Wald stem. 

I think some are confusing the Schwinn stamped steel stem with the common grooved pattern Wald that came on Huffy and Murray bikes with the stamped steel Schwinn stems as in that 1975 cat. scan.  I could also see where the non carriage bolt stamped Schwinn stem could also be taken for a forged model at a quick glance in a picture but from the saddle, there's no mistaken the difference. 
The stamped Schwinn stems were also longer than the common Wald '314' stem.


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