# 1927ish Iver Johnson 90b track racer



## anders1

Waiting for this one in the mail! Very excited about the purchase from a fellow Caber! This is a 1927ish Iver Johnson 90b Chatter Lea 23” track racer. This is the real deal and has been confirmed by some of the best Iver authorities here on the CABE. It is not 100% original or complete. Also saying it needs work is putting it mialdly. It has some minor frame work to be done. It has an old repaint, and the list goes on. So needless to say it will require a full head to tail restoration. However, this bike is definitely worthy of such a feat. First will be to have some frame work done as I begin to collect parts. I already have a Major Taylor stem for it. I will keep you posted on the project though I plan to take my time and make sure it’s wright. I would love to hear your feedback and please keep me in mind for correct parts. Pedals, deep drop bars, wheels, and so on. Anthony


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## Handyman

No doubt about it.............................this is the real deal !  Pete in Fitchburg


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## locomotion

I like the stem and bars that are on the bike personnally.
if you switch them out, I would be interested in purchasing them


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## anders1

I’ll be picking the bike up today at the FedEx facility. I think the first thing I will do is to remove some of the red paint and find the original color. The 1928 catalog states that it came from the factory in Black, with optional colors Maroon, Green, or Bronze. All would have double pinstripes and full nickel head and fork. Really looking forward to seeing the original color. I’ve seen the black and the bronze 90b. Never seen the maroon or green. I may be inclined to repaint the same as it came regardless of what color it might have been. If anyone has pics of the different color options I would like to see them. If there is any interest then share your vote for the color!


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## locomotion

A lot of people seem to want to put a major taylor stem and adjustable handlebars on a "racer".
personally, most real racing bicycles in my collection from the 10's to the 30's with actual racing pedigree do not have either.
some even have a one piece stem/handlebars with the racer's preference in angles all fixed in one piece (all welded together, with no adjusting bolds)
the name of the game in racing is trying to reduce the weight of the machine, it's always been that way
so technically, by adding a major taylor stem and adjustable handlebars, you are only adding weight to the bike and therefore reducing your performance.
don't get me wrong, I love the look of a major taylor stem and adjustable handlebars, I have many sets in my collection. I think they are great pieces of machining work and are a great conversation piece as parts!!!

I see them more as a tool created for racers to test what angles/distances they prefer for different types and lenghts of races and than they could get fixed handlebars ready for a real race

*** disclamer. Only the writers opinion. Not meant to critique someone's preferences or choices.


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## anders1

locomotion said:


> A lot of people seem to want to put a major taylor stem and adjustable handlebars on a "racer".
> personally, most real racing bicycles in my collection from the 10's to the 30's with actual racing pedigree do not have either.
> some even have a one piece stem/handlebars with the racer's preference in angles all fixed in one piece (all welded together, with no adjusting bolds)
> the name of the game in racing is trying to reduce the weight of the machine, it's always been that way
> so technically, by adding a major taylor stem and adjustable handlebars, you are only adding weight to the bike and therefore reducing your performance.
> don't get me wrong, I love the look of a major taylor stem and adjustable handlebars, I have many sets in my collection. I think they are great pieces of machining work and are a great conversation piece as parts!!!
> 
> I see them more as a tool created for racers to test what angles/distances they prefer for different types and lenghts of races and than they could get fixed handlebars ready for a real race
> 
> *** disclamer. Only the writers opinion. Not meant to critique someone's preferences or choices.



Yeah I follow you on that one. Like the bars that are on the bike now are very nice. I really only like the MT stem because of the history he had with IJ. Having the MT stem brings it to life a little bit for me. Still though I’m unsure on the exact direction I will go. Thank you for your input, and I welcome any more that you might have! I have color decisions on my mind at the moment going by the 1928 catalog as I stated above. Appreciate your thoughts! Anthony


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## Freqman1

I'd like to see what bronze looks like? V/r Shawn


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## Handyman

I know these are not very good pics to show the Iver Johnson "Bronze" color, but this is a 90B "Chater Lea" racer in bronze.  I can get better pics at some point if needed.  Follow the link below.  Pete in Fitchburg

PS.............I also agree with Anthony (Anders) above concerning the Major Taylor stem.  It kind of "connects" Major Taylor to the Iver racers and it simply looks incredible on the bike.  I compare this to a 55 Chevy I once owned...............I had that thing dressed up with every optional exterior chrome accessory that was available at that time.................very few of these cars actually had all this "stuff" on them as sold, but I always thought they looked great all dressed up !

http://boulderartgallery.com/Iver_Johnson_Bicycle_Collection/IverJohnson_Page_8.html


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## Handyman

Freqman1 said:


> I'd like to see what bronze looks like? V/r Shawn




Hi Freqmn1,

This pic of the same bronze colored Iver that I 



own might give you a better idea of the actual color than the link I included above.  Pete in Fitchburg


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## Freqman1

That would be my choice! Can I see a pic of the entire bike? V/r Shawn


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## anders1

I think I really like the Bronze as well! How about the Maroon or Green as stated in the ‘28 catalog, any pics of those anyone? Thanks for the pics Pete!


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## locomotion

anders1 said:


> Yeah I follow you on that one. Like the bars that are on the bike now are very nice. I really only like the MT stem because of the history he had with IJ. Having the MT stem brings it to life a little bit for me. Still though I’m unsure on the exact direction I will go. Thank you for your input, and I welcome any more that you might have! I have color decisions on my mind at the moment going by the 1928 catalog as I stated above. Appreciate your thoughts! Anthony




I totally agree and you made a good point about MT and Iver, something that i didnt think about. It does also look very nice to dress up a bike with a MT stem and it's not like anyone will race the bike!!!! So weight is no issue.
Max


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## Handyman

Here is a 1927 Iver Johnson Model 90 Road Racer in green.................I kind of like the green.  Pete in Fitchburg


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## Handyman

Here is a 1917 Iver Johnson Model 90A Special Racer in Maroon..................Not the best pics of the color, but you can get the general idea.   Bike needs a lot of attention but is basically complete.......... Pete in Fitchburg


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## anders1

Wow Pete that’s awesome, thanks for the pics! Anyone have a vote for the color of my build?? Yet to determine what it came with originally. Your opinion matters, thanks! Anthony


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## locomotion

I like a dark green bike! My 1897 Ivers will be real dark green when repainted.


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## locomotion

On my free time today, I was Googleing pictures from the 1924, 1928 and 1932 Olympics (Cycling) to see how many racers had MT type stems and adjustable bars.
In the quick search that I did, barely any racing bikes in the time period pictures had MT type stems and I didn't see a single set of adjustable handlebars.
I don't know if the MT type stem was mostly used in the USA, but the USA did not earn a single cycling medal in all 3 Olympics.
I didn't do an exhaustive search, just a quick scan of the pictures, so I am sure there are more examples out there.
But then, when you see some of the racer's restored bicycles in museum pictures (through the same general search), they seem to all have a MT type stem added (I guess it's all for dressing up the bikes to look more "racing") Bling sells tickets!

Fun fact : The USA won all the cycling medals in the 1904 Olympics. The USA was the only country with racers in the cycling events for 1904


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## anders1

Not all but most pics I’ve seen of MT he has an adjustable stem. Most other racers do not have the adjustable stem in this time period. I’m only guessing but maybe this is why the adjustable stem is most commonly referred to as a Major Taylor stem. I like that you are digging a little bit, I love to learn the history. Maybe I will do the same. Thanks for the post! Anthony


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## Duchess

Along with being a phenomenal athlete and by all accounts I've read, an exceptional human being, Major Taylor was also an inventor. It's quite possible that stem design is his own, which would also explain him using it.


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## anders1

Duchess said:


> Along with being a phenomenal athlete and by all accounts I've read, an exceptional human being, Major Taylor was also an inventor. It's quite possible that stem design is his own, which would also explain him using it.



That is what I am wondering as well. It would sure be nice to find more information on this. Anthony


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## locomotion

Great pictures, so the question I have, from looking at the pictures.
What is the real original Major Taylor stem? What is his actual design?
From the pictures, the MT stem tube is round, not diamond shaped!
but most adjustable stems we see are diamond shaped.


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## anders1

locomotion said:


> Great pictures, so the question I have, from looking at the pictures.
> So what is the real original Major Taylor stem? What is his actual design?
> From the pictures, the MT stem tube is round, not diamond shaped!
> but most adjustable stems we see are diamond shaped (like the one you have for your bicycle)



Yes you are wright and have a good eye. I have only seen one with the round tube for sale. I have been thinking of placing a wanted thread for the round tube stem. Earlier version I think.


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## Kato

Congrats - Awesome bike - thread / post going on the Watch list - this will be a great one to watch !!


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## anders1

There was some discussion on the Major Taylor stem when @Handyman was building his 90b. This is one of the comments that I found insightful.


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## anders1

I’ve been doing some research in preparation for the project. I’ve found a couple of different people to take on the frame work and paint. I think I will likely go with recommendation from @ivrjhnsn who will do both frame and paint/ pinstripes. The guy is located here in Southern California near me so that is a big plus. I’m kind of leaning toward the green paint color. I think it would look great with gold pins, and nickel plating with a honey colored saddle. Besides we already have a beautiful restored example of a black 90b done by Handyman. I’m currently looking for the Special Racer decal as I decide on color. If I go with the green then I want to make sure it’s the correct green! Can anyone give any advice on how to match the color as close as possible to the original. This green was an optional color in the 1928 Iver catalog for the 90b. Any feedback is appreciated. Anthony...


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## locomotion

great choices (green and gold look great). putting this post on my watch list, can't wait to see it.
thanks for the MT research


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## Handyman

anders1 said:


> I’ve been doing some research in preparation for the project. I’ve found a couple of different people to take on the frame work and paint. I think I will likely go with recommendation from @ivrjhnsn who will do both frame and paint/ pinstripes. The guy is located here in Southern California near me so that is a big plus. I’m kind of leaning toward the green paint color. I think it would look great with gold pins, and nickel plating with a honey colored saddle. Besides we already have a beautiful restored example of a black 90b done by Handyman. I’m currently looking for the Special Racer decal as I decide on color. If I go with the green then I want to make sure it’s the correct green! Can anyone give any advice on how to match the color as close as possible to the original. This green was an optional color in the 1928 Iver catalog for the 90b. Any feedback is appreciated. Anthony...




Hi Anthony,  Check out the "Special Racer" decal made by Gus Salmon of Winter Springs, Florida.  It's a perfect match to the original.  Pete in Fitchburg


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## anders1

Handyman said:


> Hi Anthony,  Check out the "Special Racer" decal made by Gus Salmon of Winter Springs, Florida.  It's a perfect match to the original.  Pete in Fitchburg
> 
> View attachment 864158



Thanks Pete. I did shoot him an email this morning.


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## corbettclassics




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## corbettclassics




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## corbettclassics




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## corbettclassics




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## anders1

Wow @corbettclassics those are some really cool pics! It kind of brings a build alive when you can associate it with such a historical figure as MT. That must have been a very exciting time. It’s great that there are guys like ourselves to keep his spirit alive. It’s not only a great hobby that we have, but a preservation of history that we will soon pass on to yet another generation. Thanks for the pics. Anthony


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## anders1

@Handyman , I did communicate with Gus and he does have the special racer decal available. That is one big step forward. Thanks Pete! Anthony


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## corbettclassics

Hedspath and Germain were Taylor's rivals and also used the same stem as the Major as seen in these photos.


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## anders1

corbettclassics said:


> Hedspath and Germain were Taylor's rivals and also used the same stem as the Major as seen in these photos.
> 
> View attachment 864198



Tht bike appears to have Chatter Lea components as well. Very cool.


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## anders1

I believe this must be the original green? Does anyone have any insight as to weather this is correct green or not?


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## dnc1

locomotion said:


> I totally agree and you made a good point about MT and Iver, something that i didnt think about. It does also look very nice to dress up a bike with a MT stem and it's not like anyone will race the bike!!!! So weight is no issue.
> Max



I'd race it!!!!
Seriously though, fantastic thread. Great bicycle and loving the MT stuff!
He really did go for those shallow bars, they're pretty similar to the one's on my unknown French bike.


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## anders1

Well I finally found some time today to expose some of the original paint on the 90b today. I wasn’t really surprised to find that it was originally black. I only exposed a small area near the repair area on the top tube. I found that the repair really isn’t bad so I think the professionals can fix it up nicely. I want to go ahead and fully strip the paint from the bike. Can anyone tell me what stripper to use in order to expose bare metal the fastest? I think I’m leaning toward the green color more and more for the repaint. I will be taking the frame to have the repair and paint soon but the guy is backed up at least three months so I’ll have to wait a while. No worries though, I have a lot of parts to find and work to be done in the meantime. Does anyone know where to find a good set of V shape wood racer wheels maybe reproduction or? Also 1 1/8 cord racer tires in new condition.


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## locomotion

anders1 said:


> Well I finally found some time today to expose some of the original paint on the 90b today. I wasn’t really surprised to find that it was originally black. I only exposed a small area near the repair area on the top tube. I found that the repair really isn’t bad so I think the professionals can fix it up nicely. I want to go ahead and fully strip the paint from the bike. Can anyone tell me what stripper to use in order to expose bare metal the fastest? I think I’m leaning toward the green color more and more for the repaint. I will be taking the frame to have the repair and paint soon but the guy is backed up at least three months so I’ll have to wait a while. No worries though, I have a lot of parts to find and work to be done in the meantime. Does anyone know where to find a good set of V shape wood racer wheels maybe reproduction or? Also 1 1/8 cord racer tires in new condition. View attachment 866263




I would not strip the paint too early before it's actually time to paint it. I prefer doing a soda blast or sand (aluminium oxide) blast right before it is ready to paint otherwise the bare steel will be contaminated and you will have to blast it again before paint anyways.
Are you staying with the nickel head tube and fork?
if so, you will have to get the frame repaired (I suggest finding someone able to braze) and then get the frame and fork plated before paint.
What kind of frame repair does it need?
MAx


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## locomotion

corbettclassics said:


> Hedspath and Germain were Taylor's rivals and also used the same stem as the Major as seen in these photos.
> 
> View attachment 864198




love seeing those old carte-de-visite
this is the exact same bike in both pictures, my guess is that it's a factory show bike for pictures only, front tire is almost flat, I don't think that bike was raced on that day! handlebar curves look different, but I don't know if it's because of the way that their hands are positioned on them or if it's due to the picture angle
Max


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## locomotion

corbettclassics said:


> View attachment 864171




this is exactly how I would dress the bars for a restoration, a nice tape bar wrap is the way I would go


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## Duchess

> Does anyone know where to find a good set of V shape wood racer wheels maybe reproduction or? Also 1 1/8 cord racer tires in new condition.




I got mine from CB Italia. They have all different profiles and finishes in clincher or single tube.


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## anders1

locomotion said:


> I would not strip the paint too early before it's actually time to paint it. I prefer doing a soda blast or sand (aluminium oxide) blast right before it is ready to paint otherwise the bare steel will be contaminated and you will have to blast it again before paint anyways.
> Are you staying with the nickel head tube and fork?
> if so, you will have to get the frame repaired (I suggest finding someone able to braze) and then get the frame and fork plated before paint.
> What kind of frame repair does it need?
> MAx



 It has an old repair done on the top tube about 4 inches behind the steer tube, looks like an old crack. It’s already been welded but needs to be cleaned up some. Really it doesn’t look bad how it is but I want to restore the frame as best I can. That makes sense about stripping the frame, thanks for your feedback and any more is appreciated. Anthony


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## anders1

locomotion said:


> this is exactly how I would dress the bars for a restoration, a nice tape bar wrap is the way I would go



 you know I hadn’t thought of that but I think that’s a great idea.


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## anders1

Duchess said:


> I got mine from CB Italia. They have all different profiles and finishes in clincher or single tube.
> 
> View attachment 866522



 wow that’s exactly what I’m looking for. I’ll check them out. I guess I can google the name? I’ll try it! Thanks. Anthony


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## anders1

locomotion said:


> I would not strip the paint too early before it's actually time to paint it. I prefer doing a soda blast or sand (aluminium oxide) blast right before it is ready to paint otherwise the bare steel will be contaminated and you will have to blast it again before paint anyways.
> Are you staying with the nickel head tube and fork?
> if so, you will have to get the frame repaired (I suggest finding someone able to braze) and then get the frame and fork plated before paint.
> What kind of frame repair does it need?
> MAx



Yes I do plan on the full nickel head tube and fork. I want it to be done as close to original as possible. Also considering the factory green with the gold pins which was an option in 28?


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## anders1

Duchess said:


> I got mine from CB Italia. They have all different profiles and finishes in clincher or single tube.
> 
> View attachment 866522



I found the place on line. Wow this is exactly what I was looking for! I have 2 bikes actually that are needing wheels so this is great. Thank you. Anthony


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## anders1

locomotion said:


> love seeing those old carte-de-visite
> this is the exact same bike in both pictures, my guess is that it's a factory show bike for pictures only, front tire is almost flat, I don't think that bike was raced on that day! handlebar curves look different, but I don't know if it's because of the way that their hands are positioned on them or if it's due to the picture angle
> Max



 yeah I had the same thought that maybe it’s because of hand positioning. Really like the photo


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## anders1

locomotion said:


> this is exactly how I would dress the bars for a restoration, a nice tape bar wrap is the way I would go



it looks like he has grips on that set of bars as well as the tape


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## anders1

Above pic of Major Taylor he appears to be riding a model 79 Racer TOC. Beautiful bike!


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## locomotion

anders1 said:


> wow that’s exactly what I’m looking for. I’ll check them out. I guess I can google the name? I’ll try it! Thanks. Anthony




I didn't know about them either, and I am thinking about ordering a set as well, maybe we can see if it's cheaper to do an order together. I already wrote to them yesterday.
i asked about the tubular* 36 holes Roubaix in Hickory*


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## locomotion

anders1 said:


> it looks like he has grips on that set of bars as well as the tapeView attachment 866642




yes, this is what I would do, grip and rest taped.


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## anders1

locomotion said:


> I didn't know about them either, and I am thinking about ordering a set as well, maybe we can see if it's cheaper to do an order together. I already wrote to them yesterday.
> i asked about the tubular* 36 holes Roubaix in Hickory*



i wouldn’t mind doing that if it would make a difference? Actually I’m possibly interested in 2 sets. 1 V shaped racer set and a set of roadster wheels as well


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## dnc1

I'm not 100% sure, but I think some (if not all) of the "CBT Italia" rims have flat sides machined for use with brakes.
I think you may also want to check out "Cerchio Ghisallo" rims before placing an order they also offer v-shaped track rims.
Please remember that both of these companies offerings are in 700c size which are slightly smaller in diameter than your American originals too, but at least you'll have a wide range of suitable rubber to put on them. And if you go down the tubs route they'll look stunning with some white "A. Dugast Pipistrello Flying Doctors"!


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## anders1

I’ll do a search for the name of wheel and also tire supplier. Thanks a lot for the help. I looked at the supplier stated above and he has some really nice stuff but I haven’t seen the V shape yet that is crucial to the build. Finding the correct tire is a big concern as well. I continue to research thanks bud!!


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## anders1




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## dnc1

Search for:
www.cerchioghisallo.com

I can't remember who, but somebody on here persuaded A. Dugast to produce the tyres to special order with no logo on the sidewalls, they're pricey, but look fantastic.


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## Handyman

Hi Anthony,
Be a little careful when you start the search for the "High V" wood wheels for your 90B Iver Racer.................if you plan on going with the proper Chater Lea hubs, they are 40 spoke rear and 32 spoke front.  Pete in Fitchburg







View attachment 866750


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## Handyman

Hi Anthony,
Although I'm confident that given enough time you could find a nice set of narrow "High V" wood racing wheels with the 40 x 32 spoke pattern, I went a faster route.  I took a High V wheel off one of my original Iver Chater Lea racers and sent the entire wheel to Noah Stutzman.  I told him I wanted him to make me three sets with the 40 x 32 spoke pattern, with the EXACT profile of the wheel I sent.  When I got the three sets back I was stunned, they were gorgeous and perfect.  One set is on my Black 1915, one set will be laced for another 90B I have, and I sold one set to someone on the Cabe, I just can't remember who. They are made out of maple and are beautiful.  I can post a pic if needed.  The tires I used on my restoration were NOS United States "Special Racer" tires 28" x 1 1/8".  These tires are also out there, just have to keep your eyes open.   Pete in Fitchburg


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## Duchess

Ghisalo were about double the price when I got my CB Italias, but the CB's do have the flat sides for cork-padded brakes. I used Linus tires for mine because of the simple TOC-like tread pattern, but they were EXTREMELY difficult to get on and I couldn't find them without the reflective stripe. You can see in the photo I posted of mine, that if there's any size difference between US 28" and 700c, it's insignificant as there's plenty of room still.


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## anders1

Handyman said:


> Hi Anthony,
> Be a little careful when you start the search for the "High V" wood wheels for your 90B Iver Racer.................if you plan on going with the proper Chater Lea hubs, they are 40 spoke rear and 32 spoke front.  Pete in Fitchburg
> 
> View attachment 867330Hi Pete, yes I have been meaning to message you and bug you a little about that. I would love to go with the CL hubs but I’m not sure how rare they are and how obtainable they might be? Can you give any advice on how to identify what I’m looking for? Any specifics or places to search? Also others have given some great leads on wheels but you know exactly what I need, any suggestions? All of you guys are much appreciated. Anthony
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 866750


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## Handyman

Hi Anthony,  Yes, the Chater Lea hubs are difficult to find, but again, they are out there.  I've seen a few sets on ebay over the years and I'm sure several Cabe member are sitting on a few sets as we speak, you just have to pry them out of their hands!!  I could help you ID a vintage set.  You've got to look at it this way...................the hubs are easier to find than the Iver Chater Lea racer you just bought !!!  Pete in Fitchburg


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## anders1

dnc1 said:


> Search for:
> www.cerchioghisallo.com
> 
> I can't remember who, but somebody on here persuaded A. Dugast to produce the tyres to special order with no logo on the sidewalls, they're pricey, but look fantastic.



yes that would be really nice


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## anders1

Duchess said:


> Ghisalo were about double the price when I got my CB Italias, but the CB's do have the flat sides for cork-padded brakes. I used Linus tires for mine because of the simple TOC-like tread pattern, but they were EXTREMELY difficult to get on and I couldn't find them without the reflective stripe. You can see in the photo I posted of mine, that if there's any size difference between US 28" and 700c, it's insignificant as there's plenty of room still.



I will be checking both of these manufacturers out in depth and  speaking with them before I can make a decision. Really I’m not in a huge hurry but figure I should start my research early. I will take all into consideration. Thank you very much for the feedback. Anthony


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## anders1

Handyman said:


> Hi Anthony,  Yes, the Chater Lea hubs are difficult to find, but again, they are out there.  I've seen a few sets on ebay over the years and I'm sure several Cabe member are sitting on a few sets as we speak, you just have to pry them out of their hands!!  I could help you i.d. a vintage set.  You've got to look at it this way...................the hubs are easier to find than the Iver Chater Lea racer you just bought !!!  Pete in Fitchburg



That is a very good point! I have the most difficult piece already, the rest is just the thrill of the hunt. I seen a couple of British made hubs on eBay but not much info other than British. I will keep looking and you will see a wanted post up soon. As far as the wheels go, I will take into consideration all that has been posted on the subject. I will be looking and making some calls when I find time. I wonder if that guy you went to for wheels had made himself a template in order to remake them if needed? I imagine that is a possibility. Thank you and everyone for your help, this 90b couldn’t be done properly without you. Anthony


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## anders1

dnc1 said:


> I'm not 100% sure, but I think some (if not all) of the "CBT Italia" rims have flat sides machined for use with brakes.
> I think you may also want to check out "Cerchio Ghisallo" rims before placing an order they also offer v-shaped track rims.
> Please remember that both of these companies offerings are in 700c size which are slightly smaller in diameter than your American originals too, but at least you'll have a wide range of suitable rubber to put on them. And if you go down the tubs route they'll look stunning with some white "A. Dugast Pipistrello Flying Doctors"!



I will be checking this guy out for sure! Looks like I got a lot of homework to do. Really appreciate the feedback, I’ll post with an update. Anthony


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## anders1

Decals arrived today! Thanks Gus!


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## hoofhearted

locomotion said:


> love seeing those old carte-de-visite
> 
> this is the exact same bike in both pictures, my guess is that it's a factory show bike for pictures only, front tire is almost flat, I don't think that bike was raced on that day! handlebar curves look different, but I don't know if it's because of the way that their hands are positioned on them or if it's due to the picture angle
> 
> Max




@corbettclassics

@locomotion


_*corbettclassics  ... *_*I added opinionated information to your foto ...
I can remove said foto at your command.*

*..... patric*


*locomotion ...  You are waaay too visual (as your typing indicates
in this thread) ... and I find it refreshing.  This leaned-on foto that
corbettclassics originally posted may be helpful.  And, maybe not.*

*This old pirate taught visual art in public school for thirty and six years.*

*..... patric*


*Left Click on the image below ... image will expand ............*

*

*


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## corbettclassics

hoofhearted said:


> @corbettclassics
> 
> @locomotion
> 
> 
> _*corbettclassics  ... *_*I added opinionated information to your foto ...
> I can remove said foto at your command.*
> 
> *..... patric*
> 
> 
> *locomotion ...  You are waaay too visual (as your typing indicates
> in this thread) ... and I find it refreshing.  This leaned-on foto that
> corbettclassics originally posted may be helpful.  And, maybe not.*
> 
> *This old pirate taught visual art in public school for thirty and six years.*
> 
> *..... patric*
> 
> 
> *View attachment 867489*





Hedspath and  Germain were team mates in the the 6 day race in Amsterdam.  Hence the reason they are on same bikes.  Germain rode with a bar with a little more drop.


----------



## corbettclassics

I always liked this set of pics where Major Taylor is getting ready to race Jacqualin 1901.

- Taylor shakes hands but doesn't even look at his opponent.

- Then his handler has the most beautiful position ready for takeoff..!!!!

 ........ And it was on his Iver Johnson ( and yes he won! ) : ( I have a pic of him holding the trophy too! )


----------



## anders1

hoofhearted said:


> @corbettclassics
> 
> @locomotion
> 
> 
> _*corbettclassics  ... *_*I added opinionated information to your foto ...
> I can remove said foto at your command.*
> 
> *..... patric*
> 
> 
> *locomotion ...  You are waaay too visual (as your typing indicates
> in this thread) ... and I find it refreshing.  This leaned-on foto that
> corbettclassics originally posted may be helpful.  And, maybe not.*
> 
> *This old pirate taught visual art in public school for thirty and six years.*
> 
> *..... patric*
> 
> 
> *View attachment 867560
> *



Hoofhearted, as always your investigative skills amaze me! Love the post, thanks. Anthony


----------



## anders1

corbettclassics said:


> I always liked this set of pics where Major Taylor is getting ready to race Jacqualin 1901.
> 
> - Taylor shakes hands but doesn't even look at his opponent.
> 
> - Then his handler has the most beautiful position ready for takeoff..!!!!
> 
> ........ And it was on his Iver Johnson ( and yes he won! ) : ( I have a pic of him holding the trophy too! )
> 
> View attachment 867557
> 
> View attachment 867558



The top pic is really cool. You can almost sense his determination focused on only one thing, the finish line! If this is a 1901 pic then that Iver is likely a model 79 like above post #51. I believe I pulled that from the 1901 catalog. Great bike, and exiting time that must have been. Thanks for the pics, and looking forward to seeing more. Anthony


----------



## hoofhearted

anders1 said:


> Hoofhearted, as always your investigative skills amaze me! Love the post, thanks. Anthony




*Thank You, Anthony.*

 *..... patric*


----------



## locomotion

anders1 said:


> Hoofhearted, as always your investigative skills amaze me! Love the post, thanks. Anthony




X2
Max

I would love to know how to add writing and drawings on a picture, no clue how to do it. It makes for a clear way to note observations. Is it a special computer program?


----------



## anders1

locomotion said:


> X2
> Max
> 
> I would love to know how to add writing and drawings on a picture, no clue how to do it. It makes for a clear way to note observations. Is it a special computer program?



I have the same question? Very cool


----------



## hoofhearted

@locomotion

@anders1

*Glad you appreciate something that matters in the Age of 
Space Exploration.  Or some other High-Fah-lootin' Age !!*

*The tool I use is named, Paint.net ..... or Paint.Net ..... or
..... paint.net.*

*Started learning it's use in, maybe 2011.  Still learning ...*

*Am finalizing an entry in my personal blog (right here on 
The CABE ) about that free app ... in the moment ......... *

*However, my wife has asked me to do some favors for her ....
( I never .. ever put off doing a favor for my beautiful bride ) ... 
and I will post my blog in the New Posts very soon, today.*

*I really do appreciate your interest.  After seeing younger
generations .. and even some not so younger generations
futz with them damned cell-fones ... with all that texting
and ''selfie'' shi# ... must say that I am more than pleased
you two Semi-Noob Earth-Dwellers want to learn something 
that will bring you real satisfaction .... that is, once you get
the hang of it.  *

*I'm still. workin' to get the hang of it.*

*And Now .. Back To Those Early, Iver Johnson Racers ..............*

..... patric


----------



## anders1

hoofhearted said:


> @locomotion
> 
> @anders1
> 
> *Glad you appreciate something that matters in the Age of
> Space Exploration.  Or some other High-Fah-lootin' Age !!*
> 
> *The tool I use is named, Paint.net ..... or Paint.Net ..... or
> ..... paint.net.*
> 
> *Started learning it's use in, maybe 2011.  Still learning ...*
> 
> *Am finalizing an entry in my personal blog (right here on
> The CABE ) about that free app ... in the moment ......... *
> 
> *However, my wife has asked me to do some favors for her ....
> ( I never .. ever put off doing a favor for my beautiful bride ) ...
> and I will post my blog in the New Posts very soon, today.*
> 
> *I really do appreciate your interest.  After seeing younger
> generations .. and even some not so younger generations
> futz with them damned cell-fones ... with all that texting
> and ''selfie'' shi# ... must say that I am more than pleased
> you two Semi-Noob Earth-Dwellers want to learn something
> that will bring you real satisfaction .... that is, once you get
> the hang of it.  *
> 
> *I'm still. workin' to get the hang of it.*
> 
> *And Now .. Back To Those Early, Iver Johnson Racers ..............*
> 
> ..... patric



Hahahaha! Can’t wait to see the blog.


----------



## corbettclassics

Major Taylor getting ready to race Ellegard.  

Bike looks good here with black head tube and black rims.

Anyone built an exact replica of this bike????


----------



## Duchess

> Anyone built an exact replica of this bike????




Looks like my Special Racer—it's a black truss frame and the original wheels are black.


----------



## anders1

corbettclassics said:


> Major Taylor getting ready to race Ellegard.
> 
> Bike looks good here with black head tube and black rims.
> 
> Anyone built an exact replica of this bike????
> 
> View attachment 867743



1902 is the first time I see the truss frame racer. I’ll post a pic from 1902 catalog. This is a 22” model 80. Notice there is no full nickel head and fork in early years only optional nickel crown. Another great pic above. I would love to find one of the TOC racers!!! Maybe looking for the next project. Great pics!


----------



## anders1

corbettclassics said:


> Major Taylor getting ready to race Ellegard.
> 
> Bike looks good here with black head tube and black rims.
> 
> Anyone built an exact replica of this bike????
> 
> View attachment 867743



Once again only one thing on Majors mind and it’s not the camera!


----------



## dnc1

I know I've asked this question before, but does anyone have knowledge of the oft-rumoured MMT film?
Apologies for the digression from these fabulous Iver Johnson machines. 
Those starting line shots are superb @corbettclassics!


----------



## anders1

dnc1 said:


> I know I've asked this question before, but does anyone have knowledge of the oft-rumoured MMT film?
> Apologies for the digression from these fabulous Iver Johnson machines.
> Those starting line shots are superb @corbettclassics!



I haven’t heard of it but it would be great to see


----------



## anders1

dnc1 said:


> I know I've asked this question before, but does anyone have knowledge of the oft-rumoured MMT film?
> Apologies for the digression from these fabulous Iver Johnson machines.
> Those starting line shots are superb @corbettclassics!



I googled Major Taylor movie and found a lot of stuff on YouTube. Seems there is a movie about him YouTube shows a preview. Google it their is a lot of information and good photos.


----------



## corbettclassics

dnc1 said:


> I know I've asked this question before, but does anyone have knowledge of the oft-rumoured MMT film?
> Apologies for the digression from these fabulous Iver Johnson machines.
> Those starting line shots are superb @corbettclassics!




Since you like the starting line shots, here's another that's similar and most likely hasn't been seen before:


----------



## anders1

corbettclassics said:


> Since you like the starting line shots, here's another that's similar and most likely hasn't been seen before:
> 
> View attachment 868379



That is a good shot! Looks like an American flag draped behind him, and the camera on the ground indicating that one camera man is holding MT up the other. Likely taken after a victory lap, with all eyes on MT.


----------



## anders1

Younger MJ and older behind


----------



## anders1

Found these rims from one of the above mentioned sites, by @Duchess I believe. They have the V shape that would have come on the 90a or b, but I want to run it past you guys maybe @Handyman so I’m sure before purchasing. I will include the technical information that I have. Also they are willing to do the 40-32 spoke combo that is necessary for the C-Lea. These look close to me but please tell me what you think, thanks. 



An



th



on



y


----------



## Handyman

I think those CB Italia wood wheels with the "High V" profile would work and look very nice.  98% of the people looking at your restoration would think they look like the originals.  The features that throw things off a bit for me are the rather "flat" looking sides of the wheel, a little different from the originals, and the CB Italia stamp. Given the difficulty of finding a usable set of 40 x 32 spoke wheels I think this is a good alternative.  Pic attached is difficult to see but it is a set of Fairbanks Boston High V wheels to compare them to. Pete in Fitchburg


----------



## anders1

Handyman said:


> I think those CB Italia wood wheels with the "High V" profile would work and look very nice.  98% of the people looking at your restoration would think they look like the originals.  The features that throw things off a bit for me are the rather "flat" looking sides of the wheel, a little different from the originals, and the CB Italia stamp. Given the difficulty of finding a usable set of 40 x 32 spoke wheels I think this is a good alternative.  Pic attached is difficult to see but it is a set of Fairbanks Boston High V wheels to compare them to. Pete in Fitchburg
> View attachment 868818
> 
> View attachment 868819



Yes I had the same thought about the flat sides and stamping. However, if you look closely the stamp it actually looks like a sticker, to me at least? As for the round sides, I might be able to sand the edge just a little bit in order to round it slightly. Not sure about that just a thought. I would have to examine it more carefully and compare to the original before attempting to do so. Also I can get the rims unfinished so that won’t be an issue. I knew you were the man to talk to about such technicalities concerning the CL, hence the reason I tagged you in the post. I will likely decide to go with this set but I will look some more. Thanks again Pete!!


----------



## anders1




----------



## Duchess

Mine's a sticker. There's also a sticker by the valve saying not to inflate over 55 psi (non-reinforced clinchers). Yours is a couple years later, so it may have changed and, really, nobody will know, so go whatever style you like best IMO, but in the interest of helping, my Iver's originals(?) had a round profile tubeless rim. Basically, what I got from CB Italia, but if the flat sides were cut down, leaving just the rounded crown. Originals:










As an aside, my and two adjacent towns had a bunch of gas main explosions causing over 70 fires (somehow only one fatality, though still sad—18 year old kid sitting in his car got crushed by a falling chimney), so they evacuated the whole town. I got the kids out, grabbed my computer and a laundry basket full of clothes, set the Iver and my USAAF bike (my most comfortable and versatile one and it was near the garage door) outside in the yard far enough from the house and behind a tree that it would probably be OK if it blew up, and left. Nothing blew up and the bikes were fine. We live in the woods on a fairly hidden 1/4 mile drive surrounded by unswimmable ponds and woods, so I wasn't worried about theft. Point is, in a pinch, the first object I looked to save after my laptop, which just comes with me, was the Iver.


----------



## corbettclassics

I know it's not exactly what you're looking for but it's a great ad showing the gold color.  ( Found in my archives )


----------



## corbettclassics

Here's another one from the bottom of my drawer that show the truss attaching directly to the top tube.


----------



## corbettclassics

My old "_Special Racer*" ...*_

_*

*_


----------



## kccomet

Anthony glad to see the bike and thread is getting some love and interest. here's another rim pic for reference


----------



## anders1

kccomet said:


> Anthony glad to see the bike and thread is getting some love and interest. here's another rim pic for reference
> 
> View attachment 868969
> 
> View attachment 868970



Hey that’s a good looking rim . I love that Iver yellow! Thanks Jim!


----------



## anders1

corbettclassics said:


> My old "_Special Racer*" ...*_
> 
> _*View attachment 868923*_



Boy that’s a good looking Racer! I love the forward rake of the top tube, and that appears to be the green one as well. I think I’ve made up my mind and will be going with the green on the 90b. However it is a lot brighter new , but I think it’s going to be a beautiful bike. Thanks for the pic. Sweet Racer. Anthony


----------



## anders1

Duchess said:


> Mine's a sticker. There's also a sticker by the valve saying not to inflate over 55 psi (non-reinforced clinchers). Yours is a couple years later, so it may have changed and, really, nobody will know, so go whatever style you like best IMO, but in the interest of helping, my Iver's originals(?) had a round profile tubeless rim. Basically, what I got from CB Italia, but if the flat sides were cut down, leaving just the rounded crown. Originals:
> 
> View attachment 868876
> 
> View attachment 868877
> 
> 
> As an aside, my and two adjacent towns had a bunch of gas main explosions causing over 70 fires (somehow only one fatality, though still sad—18 year old kid sitting in his car got crushed by a falling chimney), so they evacuated the whole town. I got the kids out, grabbed my computer and a laundry basket full of clothes, set the Iver and my USAAF bike (my most comfortable and versatile one and it was near the garage door) outside in the yard far enough from the house and behind a tree that it would probably be OK if it blew up, and left. Nothing blew up and the bikes were fine. We live in the woods on a fairly hidden 1/4 mile drive surrounded by unswimmable ponds and woods, so I wasn't worried about theft. Point is, in a pinch, the first object I looked to save after my laptop, which just comes with me, was the Iver.



Sure glad you are around to tell the story, wow that’s must of been an awful experience. Really cool that you thought to save the bike as well! Of course we all would if given the chance. Also very sad when lives are lost. I live here in California and we have our share of wild fires. I’ve been evacuated a few times once for 14 days... Thanks for all the great wheel feedback. Not exactly sure if I want to go clincher or not? It would be nice to have a decent ride on occasion but I haven’t really made up my mind?? Does anyone have any thoughts on that, clincher or solid tube for originality?? Anthony


----------



## anders1

Duchess said:


> Mine's a sticker. There's also a sticker by the valve saying not to inflate over 55 psi (non-reinforced clinchers). Yours is a couple years later, so it may have changed and, really, nobody will know, so go whatever style you like best IMO, but in the interest of helping, my Iver's originals(?) had a round profile tubeless rim. Basically, what I got from CB Italia, but if the flat sides were cut down, leaving just the rounded crown. Originals:
> 
> View attachment 868876
> 
> View attachment 868877
> 
> 
> As an aside, my and two adjacent towns had a bunch of gas main explosions causing over 70 fires (somehow only one fatality, though still sad—18 year old kid sitting in his car got crushed by a falling chimney), so they evacuated the whole town. I got the kids out, grabbed my computer and a laundry basket full of clothes, set the Iver and my USAAF bike (my most comfortable and versatile one and it was near the garage door) outside in the yard far enough from the house and behind a tree that it would probably be OK if it blew up, and left. Nothing blew up and the bikes were fine. We live in the woods on a fairly hidden 1/4 mile drive surrounded by unswimmable ponds and woods, so I wasn't worried about theft. Point is, in a pinch, the first object I looked to save after my laptop, which just comes with me, was the Iver.



Hey I really dig that 20” Racer by the way!


----------



## Duchess

It looks like cyclocross might have given rise to more options in single tube tires in terms of width. I found these and I'm thinking of getting them to use on the original wheels and it's nice that the logos aren't ridiculous like so many things today, they don't have reflective tape, and they're a lot cheaper than I've seen them in the past. Tubular is supposed to be a better ride than clinchers (I've never ridden them), but I hear it's minimally different with the newer clinchers. They're also more money.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HPL9O4...9993-4c6373f59470&ie=UTF8&qid=1537041802&sr=3


----------



## anders1

I might have the wheel issue worked out. Wheel manufacturer says they can possibly reproduce them but need to know the width and height of the original. Can anyone help with these measurements? Also these are single tube racer tires, so does anyone have a lead where to find cord reproductions 1 1/8 width. Thanks again for everyone’s help. Anthony


----------



## anders1

Duchess said:


> It looks like cyclocross might have given rise to more options in single tube tires in terms of width. I found these and I'm thinking of getting them to use on the original wheels and it's nice that the logos aren't ridiculous like so many things today, they don't have reflective tape, and they're a lot cheaper than I've seen them in the past. Tubular is supposed to be a better ride than clinchers (I've never ridden them), but I hear it's minimally different with the newer clinchers. They're also more money.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HPL9O4...9993-4c6373f59470&ie=UTF8&qid=1537041802&sr=3



These are pretty good looking tires, but if I’m able to get the correct rims then I’d really like to find some reproduction or NOS racer single tube 1 1/8. But I have no idea where to find them??? Anthony


----------



## Duchess

1.125" is a little over 28mm, so a 28 mm tubular with a smooth tread pattern and minimal logo would look right (aside from the logos which might be removable, I don't know). No idea where to get reproductions and I don't think they're financially viable for anyone to make. There's the Deans Tires, but I think they're no longer made, I can't remember if they were tubular, were very expensive (not a knock on the maker, it just goes back to the very limited market), and were sold as "for display only" which may have just been a legal CYA, and I never saw anything else. I had this same problem compounded by a strange need to have them in cream instead of black (maybe it's going up on BMX as a kid, but I've always thought of colored tires as better looking than plain). The more correct tubular options were far fewer than clincher, too skinny, and too forced advertising (and non-existent in cream), which is a large reason I went with the clinchers. Then it was a battle to find an appropriate-looking tread pattern.


----------



## anders1

A few pics before I start breaking down the 90b. These are the last pics of the bike in this condition. I have made quite a bit of progress so far but it is slow. Most importantly, I am much more knowledgeable about the bike than I was just before. Thanks everyone for the feedback and help so far, but this is only the beginning. Anthony


----------



## kccomet

i think you were the right guy for this bike, im glad you got it, and its found a good home


----------



## anders1

Thanks Jim, I feel very fortunate to own the bike. There is still a long road ahead but it is really going to be a beautiful bike when it’s finished.


----------



## anders1

@Handyman , I have been communicating with Noah who built the rims for your 1915 90b, actually we have been missing each others calls but he says yes he does still have the  pattern and should be able to duplicate the high V shape racing rims. This should be a great build. Thanks Pete for the lead. Anthony


----------



## Handyman

Hi Anthony,  That's great news !  There is no doubt in my mind that these wheels will be the absolute best choice for your restoration.  They will look correct, they are wood, NO ONE will be able to tell they are repro's, and you can finish them any way you'd like.  Now that I know he still has the pattern, I may just order another set myself !  Pete in Fitchburg


----------



## anders1

Handyman said:


> Hi Anthony,  That's great news !  There is no doubt in my mind that these wheels will be the absolute best choice for your restoration.  They will look correct, they are wood, NO ONE will be able to tell they are repro's, and you can finish them any way you'd like.  Now that I know he still has the pattern, I may just order another set myself !  Pete in Fitchburg



Hi Pete, I just spoke with Noah and he’s trying to locate the correct pattern for the rims. He’s asking for the date or time frame they were made, and if I have a drawing to be sure he finds the correct pattern. I told him it was a couple of years ago and that you might be interested in another set as well. Do you have any of this information so that he can narrow his search down? I could communicate it back to him or maybe if you’re interested then probably not a bad idea for you to contact him as well. Let me know if you have time. Anthony


----------



## Handyman

Hi Anthony,

The very first letter I wrote to Noah was dated January 28, 2015.  This was the First contact but it went on for some time.  I originally was working with pics of what I wanted and after some communication decided to send a complete wheel.  So I'd say, somewhere between January 28, 2015 and Julyish 2015.  Pete


----------



## dnc1

I believe the "cerchio ghisallo" rims come in a rounded clincher rim, similar in profile to the great rims in @kccomet 's photo above. They come in a choice of stickered or firebranded.
Although a little more expensive than the "CB Italia"s, they come with free nipples.
In my opinion, if you intend to use it regularly clinchers are the more hassle -free option when you encounter the inevitable puncture.


----------



## anders1

dnc1 said:


> I believe the "cerchio ghisallo" rims come in a rounded clincher rim, similar in profile to the great rims in @kccomet 's photo above. They come in a choice of stickered or firebranded.
> Although a little more expensive than the "CB Italia"s, they come with free nipples.
> In my opinion, if you intend to use it regularly clinchers are the more hassle -free option when you encounter the inevitable puncture.



If I am to go with clinchers and make it a rider , another issue for me has been to find some nice original looking tires. I’m sure they are out there but I haven’t found a supplier yet?


----------



## Duchess

You can find tread patterns, but they all seem to have the stinking reflective tape on them. I got nipples with my CB Italias, but I can't remember if I paid extra for them or they were included. I did get one built with a Velosteel rear hub and I used a New Departure W for the front (cheap option for an archaic 90mm OLD hub), which I had built locally.


----------



## anders1

Can probably remove reflective strip but I’ve only seen newer style tread pattern. I’m sure I’m just not looking in the wright place.


----------



## Duchess

Linus tires have just circumferential grooves like I've seen from old tires, but I found them to be extremely difficult to get on the CB Italias and the removing the reflective strip leaves a residue behind that even acetone didn't remove and looks almost like you never tore the strip off (at least it isn't sticky, so it doesn't attract filth).


----------



## anders1

Duchess said:


> Linus tires have just circumferential grooves like I've seen from old tires, but I found them to be extremely difficult to get on the CB Italias and the removing the reflective strip leaves a residue behind that even acetone didn't remove and looks almost like you never tore the strip off (at least it isn't sticky, so it doesn't attract filth).



I think that may be the way to go. The more I look at the bike makes me want to ride it not just look at it. It’s super light and would ride nice I’m sure. Thanks for the feedback I’ll be looking.


----------



## anders1




----------



## Duchess

Yeah, IMO, I'd rather compromise it a little to be able to ride it. Almost nobody you run into will know the difference or care, anyway, and any weirdo bike people who do would understand getting it to be a rider. Mine rides really nice.


----------



## dnc1

anders1 said:


> View attachment 872127
> 
> View attachment 872128
> 
> View attachment 872129
> 
> View attachment 872130
> 
> View attachment 872131



Very nice!


----------



## Handyman

That Iver Chater Lea racer looks fast just sitting there !!  Pete in Fitchburg


----------



## anders1

Handyman said:


> That Iver Chater Lea racer looks fast just sitting there !!  Pete in Fitchburg



You know, I was thinking the same thing!


----------



## corbettclassics

Looks like Boehm was racing and winning on an Iver Johnson ..


----------



## corbettclassics

Another successful 6-Day Racer on an Iver Johnson


----------



## anders1

corbettclassics said:


> Looks like Boehm was racing and winning on an Iver Johnson ..
> 
> View attachment 873982



That’s a great shot of Boehm and a beautiful Iver. That’s a little bit earlier but that looks like a truss frame road racer.


----------



## corbettclassics




----------



## corbettclassics




----------



## Handyman

Notice, that in the post of corbetteclassics above, that the 90A and 90B Iver racers did not have the standard (heavy) "lucky 7" seatpost as used throughout the Iver line.  These racers had a simple, strait,  and lighter weight "domed" seatpost.................an interesting little known fact.  Pete in Fitchburg


----------



## anders1

Handyman said:


> Notice, that in the post of corbetteclassics above, that the 90A and 90B Iver racers did not have the standard (heavy) "lucky 7" seatpost as used throughout the Iver line.  These racers had a simple, strait,  and lighter weight "domed" seatpost.................an interesting little known fact.  Pete in Fitchburg



I believe this is how my 90 b is supposed to be according to the catalog?


----------



## anders1

I have never seen this type of Iver post


----------



## corbettclassics

I encourage everyone who is interested in Iver Johnson bicycles to click on Pete's link "Iver Collection". WOW!

You're putting together a fantastic collection Pete!  And of course the first bike in the collection .... well ........thumbs up!!


----------



## anders1

anders1 said:


> I have never seen this type of Iver post



To reiterate, I’ve only seen this seat post in pics on the bike. Never seen one alone. I assume it will have the same IJ stamping?


----------



## anders1

@Handyman , I spoke with Noah early this morning. He says that he has found the pattern  taken from your rim for the 90b for sure. He is asking for the diameter of the rim. I told him 25” but I wanted to double check with you before saying for sure. Also, told him that you might be wanting a set or two?


----------



## anders1

corbettclassics said:


> I encourage everyone who is interested in Iver Johnson bicycles to click on Pete's link "Iver Collection". WOW!
> 
> You're putting together a fantastic collection Pete!  And of course the first bike in the collection .... well ........thumbs up!!



That Lovell Board Track Racer is a super sweet bike!


----------



## anders1

Well I answered my own question about the seat post after reading through the catalog again. Seems the straight post is imported English make, so obviously no IJ stamping. My question now would be, can anyone give me an idea of what this post looks like with the domed top? My bike is missing this component and will have to be sought out. Thanks for the help!


----------



## Handyman

anders1 said:


> Well I answered my own question about the seat post after reading through the catalog again. Seems the straight post is imported English make, so obviously no IJ stamping. My question now would be, can anyone give me an idea of what this post looks like with the domed top? My bike is missing this component and will have to be sought out. Thanks for the help!




I have two Iver racers with that seatpost.....................I'll post a few pics soon.  Pete in Fitchburg


----------



## Iverider

Oops. Wrong info deleted.


----------



## anders1

Iverider said:


> I think the domed seatpost is something found on later racers.  I've only ever seen chrome domes which means after 1933— nickel plating is mentioned in the pamphlet in the "appearance" section. 1936 catalog mentions chromium plating. This image from the 1928-1929 catalog image clearly shows a 7 post and the accessories section shows no domed post.
> 
> View attachment 874850



You are correct about the lucky 7 post on the model 90, as well as chrome plating on the 1936 model. However,,,,, we are discussing a 1927 Chatter Lea Racer model 90b. As pointed out above, the 90b came with Imported English made components including the hanger, hubs, and post. Also 1927 shows nickel plating. The 90b was the only model to come with imported parts “not Iver parts” this bike is much lighter than others and intended for a board track including sprint racing and the like. This bike is especially rare for these reasons.


----------



## anders1

Iverider said:


> I think the domed seatpost is something found on later racers.  I've only ever seen chrome domes which means after 1933— nickel plating is mentioned in the pamphlet in the "appearance" section. 1936 catalog mentions chromium plating. This image from the 1928-1929 catalog image clearly shows a 7 post and the accessories section shows no domed post.
> 
> View attachment 874850



This image is of a model 90, not the 90b


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## anders1

Other distinguishing features of the 90b, which make the bike unique is that it only came with a 21 or 23” seat mast, diomand frame only, and a threaded BB.


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## Iverider

Whoops...Shoulda read the post a little more closely. Nice collection btw.


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## Duchess

Wow, they used molybdenum steel in the 1920s!


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## anders1

Iverider said:


> Whoops...Shoulda read the post a little more closely. Nice collection btw.



Iverider it’s cool you are joining in. This has been a great discussion with some really good guys. You know, I am just learning most of this stuff myself since I’ve acquired the 90b. Thanks to all the guys posting on this thread, and the research we have all posted. Maybe we are all learning a little bit. I must admit, that 90% or more of my knowledge has come from private conversations with @Handyman . I have been bugging him for information and his opinion since I have acquired the bike. He has been gracious and very willing to share his knowledge without hesitation. So he and the rest of you are greatly appreciated..... Lots of interesting racing info and pics!


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## anders1

Duchess said:


> Wow, they used molybdenum steel in the 1920s!



This bike is really unbelievably light. Built for one thing. WINNING!


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## Iverider

anders1 said:


> Iverider it’s cool you are joining in.




Pete is great! He and Scott K. are a trove of Iver knowledge among some others here. I gave the cabe a rest for awhile. Decided I was looking at rusty bicycles more than I was riding and didn't like it. Now I'm doing both again


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## dnc1

If the seat post was English made, it could feasibly be chrome plated from 1928/9 onwards. What size is the seat post @anders1 ?


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## anders1

dnc1 said:


> If the seat post was English made, it could feasibly be chrome plated from 1928/9 onwards. What size is the seat post @anders1 ?



Post measures wright about 13/16 of an inch.


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## anders1




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## anders1

A cool shot from 1925. I spot at least 3 Major Taylor stems, and I believe that is an Iver Racer 2nd bike from the top. Notice the full nickel head tube and fork, also straight fork crown. Pretty cool race car in the background as well.


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## anders1

Well I was able to locate the correct straight pattern style seat post, along with an original Brooks B15 saddle. Both would have come with the bike originally. The saddle is in excellent shape. Because it’s a full restoration project, I will do some “minor” leather rejuvenation and dye the saddle to look like new. Also picked up an original chain in near mint condition. I think I have located a super nice set of US Special Racer Tubular tires as well. So one piece at a time it’s coming together. Still haven’t had the time to take the frame in for repair and paint. I have to drive about 2 1/2 hours to the guys shop in San Diego, but hopefully soon.


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## fordsnake

The adjustable "round" stem was used by several racers. 




Taylor has been credited for the square tubing (as seen below) preventing the bars from twisting on the stem. I think this was developed at the end or after his racing career (I'd love to see a photo of him with this set up).

I was told many years ago about these stems and that Taylor engaged an English factory to make and produce them. The Mfg company's letters are stamped on the bottom.


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## Ed Minas

This thread is super exciting.  Looking forward to seeing the completed machine.


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## anders1

fordsnake said:


> The adjustable "round" stem was used by several racers. View attachment 882072
> View attachment 882073
> 
> Taylor has been credited for the square tubing (as seen below) preventing the bars from twisting on the stem. I think this was developed at the end or after his racing career (I'd love to see a photo of him with this set up).
> View attachment 882063
> I was told many years ago about these stems and that Taylor engaged an English factory to make and produce them. The Mfg company's letters are stamped on the bottom.



This bike is claimed to have belonged to MT. I believe it is a French racer? Notice the diomand shape Taylor stem. Inventing this diomand top tube late in his career, I assume there will be very few pics of him with this example. Anyone watching, post a pic of MT with this style stem if you find one.


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## corbettclassics

I believe this is the same bike : ( fork crown! )

The great Sam MacVea is the handler for Major Taylor in this photo.


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## anders1

corbettclassics said:


> I believe this is the same bike : ( fork crown! )
> 
> The great Sam MacVea is the handler for Major Taylor in this photo.
> 
> View attachment 882325



That is really a great photo! Always such determination in Taylor’s demeanor, and his handler as well. Check out the rider on the far left looking around, as MT is focused on that first turn.


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## anders1

corbettclassics said:


> I believe this is the same bike : ( fork crown! )
> 
> The great Sam MacVea is the handler for Major Taylor in this photo.
> 
> View attachment 882325




It’s hard for me to make it out, but that does look like it could possibly be the diomand shape stem?


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## corbettclassics

No, thats the round stem.


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## fordsnake

Heres a better view


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## corbettclassics

Here's the same bike and you can see the stem a little better in this shot.


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## anders1

Yes definitely the round stem. Thanks for posting. Keep an eye out for a photo of MT with the diomand shape top tube. Would be interesting to see, probably not many out there.


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## Gus

anders1 said:


> View attachment 864611
> 
> 
> I believe this must be the original green? Does anyone have any insight as to weather this is correct green or not?



This is just a piece of painted tubing that i use to test some decals. It's a long way off to the original green I would imagine.


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## anders1

Gus said:


> This is just a piece of painted tubing that i use to test some decals. It's a long way off to the original green I would imagine.



The reason I thought this might be the correct green is because another Caber @ivrjhnsn restored a truss frame Iver with a very similar green. I will post a pic once I can find it. Maybe ivrjhnsn can comment on the green, I’m trying to find the correct green or close to it if I should decide to use it for my restoration. Thanks Gus for the post and those are decals by the way!


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## anders1

anders1 said:


> The reason I thought this might be the correct green is because another Caber @ivrjhnsn restored a truss frame Iver with a very similar green. I will post a pic once I can find it. Maybe ivrjhnsn can comment on the green, I’m trying to find the correct green or close to it if I should decide to use it for my restoration. Thanks Gus for the post and those are decals by the way!



I meant to say those are great decals you provided for my restoration. Thanks very much!


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## ivrjhnsn

This is the green I use . It's actually a bit darker in person. The original green Iver used is even darker.


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## Handyman

I have seen that shade of green in person that Ivrjhnsn uses on his restorations, and it is a really great choice, looks awesome!  There are so any different shades to choose from that it is very difficult to get the exact green that the factory used.  To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a list of "paint codes" unearthed  that the company used although I could be wrong. In any case, here is another decent example of the Iver green on a teens roadster.  Keep in mind your looking at 100 year old paint that has gone through some sort of aging over the years.  Pete in Fitchburg


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## anders1

Thanks Scott and Pete for the feedback. That helps a lot actually. I really do like the Green, and this will likely be my choice. Bronze is the other color that I am considering, but leaning towards the green. Anthony


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## Duchess

From what I remember from a lecture at design school quite a while ago, but can't seen to find reference to online, it wasn't until the mid 10s or 20s where color blending standards were adopted by industry. Prior to that, paint was mixed in batches with no set way to match further batches. Supposedly, this was one of the reasons that Ford only offered the Model T in black for much of its production, in addition to the speed of drying—at the pace of production, if they ran out of a batch of paint half way through a car, the whole thing would have to be repainted to assure a match. I imagine it was probably cheaper to junk that car than what repainting would have done to the assembly line. If my memory is correct, there wouldn't be an exact match for "Iver", just an exact match for a particular batch. Then, for people restoring today, there's contending with what the differences in age-related effects do to the paint and perhaps changes in specification (though, this not only predates the marketing platform of planned obsolescence, but Iver themselves really didn't seem to be much of ones for change for the sake of change).


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## anders1

Duchess said:


> From what I remember from a lecture at design school quite a while ago, but can't seen to find reference to online, it wasn't until the mid 10s or 20s where color blending standards were adopted by industry. Prior to that, paint was mixed in batches with no set way to match further batches. Supposedly, this was one of the reasons that Ford only offered the Model T in black for much of its production, in addition to the speed of drying—at the pace of production, if they ran out of a batch of paint half way through a car, the whole thing would have to be repainted to assure a match. I imagine it was probably cheaper to junk that car than what repainting would have done to the assembly line. If my memory is correct, there wouldn't be an exact match for "Iver", just an exact match for a particular batch. Then, for people restoring today, there's contending with what the differences in age-related effects do to the paint and perhaps changes in specification (though, this not only predates the marketing platform of planned obsolescence, but Iver themselves really didn't seem to be much of ones for change for the sake of change).



That is very interesting information, and definitely relieves some pressure of trying to find the correct green. Handyman shows a great example of the aged green above. Thanks guys for the feedback! Anthony


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## corbettclassics

Handyman said:


> I have seen that shade of green in person that Ivrjhnsn uses on his restorations, and it is a really great choice, looks awesome!  There are so any different shades to choose from that it is very difficult to get the exact green that the factory used.  To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a list of "paint codes" unearthed  that the company used although I could be wrong. In any case, here is another decent example of the Iver green on a teens roadster.  Keep in mind your looking at 100 year old paint that has gone through some sort of aging over the years.  Pete in Fitchburg
> 
> View attachment 886735




Have you tried to pull the badge off to see the green color under it???

I went through the same thing trying to figure out the correct color on my 1903 National.  It was blue but trying
to figure out the right shade was difficult because all the yrs of fading.

I took the badge off and came up with this color underneath as it was pretty well preserved after 100 yrs.


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## Handyman

Now that is one great idea !  I'll see if I can get a pic posted soon of the green under the badge.  Pete in Fitchburg


corbettclassics said:


> Have you tried to pull the badge off to see the green color under it???
> 
> I went through the same thing trying to figure out the correct color on my 1903 National.  It was blue but trying
> to figure out the right shade was difficult because all the yrs of fading.
> 
> I took the badge off and came up with this color underneath as it was pretty well preserved after 100 yrs.
> 
> View attachment 886962
> 
> View attachment 886963
> 
> View attachment 886964


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## anders1

That is a great idea corbettclassics, I pulled the badge off the 90b in preparation for restoration and the nickel below had a mirror like finish as if it was just plated yesterday. Pete that is a lot to ask, and it would be great if you are willing to do so. Anthony


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## dnc1

corbettclassics said:


> Have you tried to pull the badge off to see the green color under it???
> 
> I went through the same thing trying to figure out the correct color on my 1903 National.  It was blue but trying
> to figure out the right shade was difficult because all the yrs of fading.
> 
> I took the badge off and came up with this color underneath as it was pretty well preserved after 100 yrs.
> 
> View attachment 886962
> 
> View attachment 886963
> 
> View attachment 886964



Still loving that shade of blue!


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## carlitos60

corbettclassics said:


> Here's the same bike and you can see the stem a little better in this shot.
> 
> View attachment 882583



Just for Information Purpose: The Bike on the Picture and the Museum is a Early/Mid 10s Peugeot Racer!  I Had One and Sold It to a Canada Collector!


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## anders1

carlitos60 said:


> Just for Information Purpose: The Bike on the Picture and the Museum is a Early/Mid 10s Peugeot Racer!  I Had One and Sold It to a Canada Collector!



Very cool early racer


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## Handyman

OK............I removed the badge from my Iver with the green head and here is what I found..................The first pic shows the headtube immediately upon removing the badge, nothing touched.  The second pic shows the headtube with one easy wipe of a damp cloth.  The third pic shows the headtube after a slightly more aggressive cleaning. To my surprise, there is not a huge difference in the color.  The shade of green is clearly lighter under the badge but I'd have to say not significantly lighter. Pete in Fitchburg


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## anders1

Wow, thanks Pete! What you have is a great example of well preserved paint, the whole bike. This helps a lot, and is very much appreciated.... Anthony


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## anders1

A major life change is coming for me soon so regretfully I will be putting the Chatter Lea Racer up for sale. I really love this bike but we can’t take it all with us right. I’m hoping to find a good home for the bike, someone to finish the project. I will be asking  $1,200 shipped. Bike will be listed in the for sale forum. All inquiries send PM only please. Thanks guys!


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## Duchess

I hope it's a positive change. GLWS!


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