# Advice on English 3-speed



## Eatontkd (Dec 30, 2018)

Greetings~ Due to a sick leave, I've found myself with too much time on my hands. Not one to do the "sit and relax" well, I've been contemplating what to do with an English 3 Speed I acquired from a storage barn nearby. She'll be 63 years old this new year ('56 Hercules, #B 1405). I think, the best I can tell, it's a Hercules "New Yorker" marketed to the U.S. by TI/Raleigh/Hercules/etc. I gave it a light cleaning, quick lube, tire inflate, and everything works well! Considering I paid $60.00 for what you see, I feel it's a bargain if for no other reason than it was the kinda bike my Dad enjoyed.

My question(s); 1). The frame is rubbed(beyond just scratched) in several places down past the primer(which looks like black paint) to the metal due to bad storage and less than adequate moving on the back of pickups. Being type-A, it's difficult for me not to want to strip and repaint. Is this not advisable, or is this not that valuable that it even matters? I'm not interested in getting more into it than it's worth. If not to paint, suggestions on how to slow the assault of rust and still keep looking, right? 2) Is there a resource for decals? The chain guard shape and graphic is what first attracted my attention. I'd like to ride it on decent days; I see it as a nice boardwalk ride.

Appreciate all thoughts~ Doug


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## bulldog1935 (Dec 30, 2018)

this image search will link to some vendors

yours look pretty good except for the chain cover - that may be pretty tough- great chain cover, though


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## slowride (Dec 30, 2018)

Regarding paint: It's only original once. Evaporust soaked rag and wrap around rust area then wrap Saran Wrap over to keep from evaporating. Let sit overnight. Repeat if necessary. Alternatively you can use brass brush and wd40 and remove loose rust . Then you can wash and put wax over bare metal to protect. Because you can not reproduce the color of paint which is a product of both primer and top coat with just a top coat touch up paint you will never be able to match touched up areas in both artificial AND natural light.


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## Andrew Gorman (Dec 30, 2018)

From a crass commercial perspective, anything more than repacking the bearings is a waste of time money and effort.  Rebuilt it is a 75.00 bike in most markets. A nice bike, but not a valuable one.


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## Eatontkd (Dec 30, 2018)

Andrew Gorman said:


> From a crass commercial perspective, anything more than repacking the bearings is a waste of time money and effort.  Rebuilt it is a 75.00 bike in most markets. A nice bike, but not a valuable one.




...yeah, I'm starting to see as such. "slowride", I think I"ll follow your advice this spring and go with the natural-aged vintage appeal look. I seriously would like to redo the chain guard though and find that graphic...


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## sam (Dec 30, 2018)

T.I. did own Hercules but I think your bike pre dates when T.I. bought Raleigh. Hercules hubs were Sturmey clones(shells will interchange) but had much stronger gears. Use some past wax shoe polish on it. Auto touch up paint maybe but you'll never get it to match. And your Heru.  may be 10/10 steel but it's a better bikes than most I've seen, better lug work.


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## bulldog1935 (Dec 31, 2018)

1946 is when TI bought Hercules, and 1956 is when TI consolidated Hercules, Phillips, Norman, and Sun into British Cycle Corp.  
1960 is when TI bought Raleigh


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## morton (Dec 31, 2018)

Valuable and rare or not, I wouldn't even consider repaint......clean, lube, polish/wax and ride.   It has character!


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## Eatontkd (Dec 31, 2018)

sam said:


> T.I. did own Hercules but I think your bike pre dates when T.I. bought Raleigh. Hercules hubs were Sturmey clones(shells will interchange) but had much stronger gears. ... And your Heru.  may be 10/10 steel but it's a better bike than most I've seen, better lug work.



The more I get into this, the more I'm really glad I bought this! 
Appreciate ALL the advice gang! Doug


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## sam (Dec 31, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> 1946 is when TI bought Hercules, and 1956 is when TI consolidated Hercules, Phillips, Norman, and Sun into British Cycle Corp.
> 1960 is when TI bought Raleigh



Thanks bulldog I didn't know the dates,except for Raleigh being about 1960. Here is a complete list of the British Cycle Corp. before raleigh


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## Eatontkd (Dec 31, 2018)

sam said:


> ...Here is a complete list of the British Cycle Corp. before raleigh



I've been told that the Thumb shift isn't "correct" for this make and model (which doesn't bother me) so I'm assuming the saddle isn't either? The only Brit saddles I'm aware of are Wrights and Brooks. I noticed this Middlemore isn't on the above mentioned list.


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## GTs58 (Dec 31, 2018)

I would think the saddle is original to the bike.

Middlemores (Coventry) Ltd
*Traded as* Richard Middlemore & Sons, William Middlemore, Middlemore And Lamplugh, Middlemores (Coventry) Ltd*Industry* Leather goods, mainly saddlery*Fate* Dissolved*Founded* Early 1800s*Founder* Richard Middlemore*Defunct* 1991*Headquarters*
Birmingham, Birmingham and Coventry, Coventry
,
England
*Key people*
Richard Middlemore, William Middlemore, James Middlemore, Thomas Middlemore*Products* Bicycle saddles, horse saddles, harnesses, military ammunition pouches and belts, cigar cases

*Middlemores Saddles* was a horse saddles and accessories company based in Birmingham, England, with origins dating to the early nineteenth century. After several name changes they ended their time as a bicycle saddle and accessories company in Coventry in the late twentieth century.[1] The company had a trading period that can be documented to at least 160 years; making it one of the most longevous companies to operate in England.[2][3]


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## HARPO (Jan 1, 2019)

Love the chain guard. That was worth the price alone for me, but detailing the bike as is and using it will bring a lot of enjoyment. Nice find!!


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## sam (Jan 1, 2019)

The British Cycle Corp was a group of companies owned by T.I. but they were being run as independent  companies so Hercules might have contracted for middlemore seats, also after T.I. bought Raleigh, (1960) there was a short time before all the companies were consolidated. The Sturmey archer shifter in place of a Hercules shifter might also be correct. And to muddy the water a bit more---some assembly lines were  producing more that one product line(some different mopeds brands were assembled on the same line) so even before the Raleigh take over some blending was taking place.


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## Eatontkd (Jan 2, 2019)

Ok. Looking forward to going after a detail day with this one. Thank you for all the input gang. Little things point to this bike having been used well, but taken care of by whomever owned it. I have no idea of it's history and no clue how it ended up in Central PA. It's not a brand that would've been well known or even sold around here. This was the first Hercules I had ever seen. There was a Raleigh dealer in this region back in my youth. Perhaps there?


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## usarnie1 (Jan 2, 2019)

I thought you might like to see how My 1953 Hercules Tourist looked like when I purchased it on e-bay and what it currently looks like.  The only re-paint was done to the chain guard.  Most of the work done to the bike was applying new grease to all the bearings, replaceing needed parts and adding accessories.


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## Eatontkd (Jan 2, 2019)

usarnie1 said:


> I thought you might like to see how My 1953 Hercules Tourist looked like when I purchased it on e-bay and what it currently looks like.  The only re-paint was done to the chain guard.  Most of the work done to the bike was applying new grease to all the bearings, replaceing needed parts and adding accessories...



EXCELLENT! Love the tires, nice touch. What brand are they?


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## Oilit (Jan 4, 2019)

I recently picked up a 1954 "Royal Master" built for AMF by Hercules, and it's nearly identical to yours, except with more rust. From what I can find out, the "Royal Master" brand belonged to AMF and was never used by Hercules except on the bikes they built for AMF.  I'm guessing the same may be true with "Royal Prince", but I have no idea who owned the "Royal Prince" brand.


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## Eatontkd (Jan 4, 2019)

Oilit said:


> I recently picked up a 1954 "Royal Master" built for AMF by Hercules... ...I'm guessing the same may be true with "Royal Prince", but I have no idea who owned the "Royal Prince" brand.




Interesting. I never even considered that Royal Price was nothing more than a model name. Never thought about another brand having them made. I was always just under the assumption that this was a model marketed to the U.S.

Any Hercules historians?


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## bulldog1935 (Jan 4, 2019)

Internet searching turns up two descriptions of Royal Prince, one a prewar model of Coventry Eagle
https://oldbike.wordpress.com/1930s-coventry-eagle-gents-roadster/

but most attributions to mid-50s Royal Prince, including on The CABE, are a Hercules model.    Hercules was the first bike company bought by Tube Investments, in 1946.


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## 3-speeder (Jan 7, 2019)

Love that bike. Definitely wouldn't touch the paint! This site has a good history of Tube Investments:
https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Tube_Investments


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## Eatontkd (Jan 7, 2019)

Great! Thanks 3-speeder!


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## harpon (Jan 8, 2019)

Hercules crank- I think about '68- 
I bought just the frame and crank for $ 20 on craigslist. Theweird paint is my own, and 27" 3 speed wheels from a Schwinn World Traveler..


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## bikerbluz (Jan 9, 2019)

I have a Hercules Royal Geoffrey I recently picked up. It appears to be early 60’s , is a 10 speed with 26” wheels. I will get some pics posted when I get them. Would like to know some more about this bike. Really enjoy the English lightweights


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## vincev (Jan 9, 2019)

cool  bike but not collectable.If you want a learning experience then go for it and repaint if you like.If you are looking to flip then just general maintenance is good enough. these were pretty durable  bikes and should be a nice bike to ride.


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## Eatontkd (Jan 10, 2019)

bikerbluz said:


> I have a Hercules Royal Geoffrey I recently picked up...  I will get some pics posted when I get them.



Pics please, I've never seen a Hercules 10 Speed. I'm guessing it's a Raleigh with Herc badge?


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## bikerbluz (Jan 10, 2019)

Here are a couple pics of the Hercules 10 speed.


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## bikerbluz (Jan 10, 2019)

Here they are.....


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## Roger Henning (Jan 10, 2019)

I think someone built themselves a 10 speed.  The shifter I believe are from a Schwinn.  When I was 14 years old I bought a new Hercules second level level black 3 speed.  By the time I was 18 and going to college it was a 12 speed with 2 front chainrings from a Raleigh 10 speed,  2 sprockets on the original SA 3 speed with Alvit derailleur and the original 3 gears in the hub.  3 x 2 x 2 equals 12 gears.  My point with this is anytime you find an old bike no mater what condition it is in you should assume some modifications have been made.  Roger


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## SirMike1983 (Jan 10, 2019)

Not a custom creation at all - that is one of the 10-speed utility family of bikes produced by Raleigh and badged as Hercules. The Nottingham factory produced a range of utility-type bikes based on the Sports and the Royal Geoffrey was the Hercules variation offered variously as a 5-speed or a 10-speed. I've also seen Rudge and Humber variants of this particular type of bike. The bikes are 1960s-70s era. The Sports platform was built into many different bikes beyond the normal 3-speeds, including 5-speeds and 10-speeds. 

They're kind of "oddities" when they appear in non-Raleigh badging, but its basically just an up-rated utility Sports-type bike.


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## bikerbluz (Jan 11, 2019)

Thanks to both Roger and Sir Mike for your replies. Roger I can understand your skepticism. Many, many bikes are altered thru out their lives. This bike drew my attention from what appears to be its originality. The shifters are different from anything I have had, extra long, maybe because of the upright riding position? I was attracted to those and the color of the bike, kind of a root beer color. Bike is in pretty good shape except the saddle which is trashed. Sir Mike thank you for your information. I have been working on a Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix, 1960, I believe. It has the same crankset as this Hercules. Don’t think this bike is too collectible, but with a few upgrades, could be a fun rider. Thanks gentlemen.


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## Eatontkd (Jan 11, 2019)

bikerbluz said:


> ....Don’t think this bike is too collectible, but with a few upgrades, could be a fun rider. Thanks gentlemen.




Looks like a great, "fun find" regardless of value or collectibilty. Enjoy. Thanks for the pics bikerbluz.


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## slowride (Jan 15, 2019)

Love the color of that Hercules. Here's a close cousin: 




my



 R



al



My Raleigh Sprite 5 speed  from 1969  also 26" wheels


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## Eatontkd (Jan 16, 2019)

1956 Hercules ad.


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## Eatontkd (Jul 12, 2022)

An update: bought new tires for the Hercules. I was surprised when I mentioned it at my LBS (Trek dealer) and they had a pair, in stock!! I didn't know Bontrager made tires to fit English!!


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