# Ok, I gotta ask....



## fordmike65 (Jun 5, 2017)

Why do so many refer to every early fixed gear diamond frame as a freakin' "track bike" or "racer"??? Despite no race characteristics, geometry or components??? Almost as bad as every old bike is a Schwinn. Ok, rant over. Mike


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## GTs58 (Jun 5, 2017)

I donno.

 Why does everyone call their POS's a beach cruiser, even when they live in the desert and it's a skinny tired track bike? 

Example.... *Vintage Beach cruiser - $100 (Youngtown)*

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/bik/6099529468.html


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## Robertriley (Jun 5, 2017)

oh shut up Mike


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## fordmike65 (Jun 5, 2017)

Robertriley said:


> oh shut up Mike



Why don't you go do a few practice laps at your local Velodrome on one of your many "race bikes"


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## corbettclassics (Jun 5, 2017)

I agree with Mike.  I know I only mention "Track" or "Racer" when I know for sure it's a factory racer as per the catalogue.  I have seen
it mentioned many times where it's a regular old bike and it's called a track bike when it's just another roadster or .........


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## corbettclassics (Jun 5, 2017)

Fordmike brings up an excellent point..!!
Here's a perfect example when you can call your "early" diamond frame a "RACER".  Here's pics of my 1897 Cleveland Model #29.
Here's a page from the 1897 catalogue for the #29 and check out what they called it.


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## Robertriley (Jun 5, 2017)

corbettclassics said:


> Fordmike brings up an excellent point..!!
> Here's a perfect example when you can call your "early" diamond frame a "RACER".  Here's pics of my 1897 Cleveland Model #29.
> Here's a page from the 1897 catalogue for the #29 and check out what they called it.
> 
> View attachment 477437 View attachment 477438 View attachment 477439 View attachment 477440



So...is that considered a racer or not?  I just don't want to rub Mike the wrong way.  It looks like your Cleveland is like a high end Trek Madone.   It's not like the one that Lance Armstrong was racing but the Madones were used in some races. I saw a lot of them at the Tour of California and the Redlands Classic.  So what's the verdict?


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## Robertriley (Jun 5, 2017)

I have called this my TOC Racer before because of some of the parts and characteristic of the frame resembled something that could of been put together for a race bike years ago.  Sorry if it offended you Mike.   

http://thecabe.com/forum/media/albums/1897-toc-thor-hubs.1923/


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## Robertriley (Jun 5, 2017)

I do agree with you Mike that there are a lot of bikes that people flip the bars over and them they are called TOC race bikes.


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## barracuda (Jun 5, 2017)

If you turn any bike's handlebars upside-down, it goes faster. This has been known since the earliest days of cycling.


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## fordmike65 (Jun 5, 2017)

barracuda said:


> If you turn any bike's handlebars upside-down, it goes faster. This has been known since the earliest days of cycling.



Probably on their way to an AA meeting.


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## dfa242 (Jun 6, 2017)

Huh...I dunno either, but here's an all original Schwinn track bike I'm thinkin of selling.
Oh, and the headlight is untested


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## corbettclassics (Jun 6, 2017)

Robertriley said:


> I have called this my TOC Racer before because of some of the parts and characteristic of the frame resembled something that could of been put together for a race bike years ago.  Sorry if it offended you Mike.
> 
> http://thecabe.com/forum/media/albums/1897-toc-thor-hubs.1923/




That red one is a beautiful bike Chris and I myself would most likely consider calling
that one a race bike.  It does have all the characteristics of an actual racer.  It's difficult
to pin point a bike sometimes as to what it is exactly without a proper badge and its
actual catalogue picture though.

I totally get it what Mike is saying about some bikes that have this label put to them being
a track bike (racer) when clearly they're not.  I don't think Mike is referring to your red bike
 specifically though because that particular bike says racer all the way..!!

I have seen guys take bikes that have road drop outs, brake bridges with holes for the brakes
or fenders etc and call them track bikes.  That's the kind of bike that irks me when it's clearly
a road frame but guys call them track racers etc ...

Again, I understand Mike clearly on this topic as I have only collected "Track" bikes or "Racers"
for 38 yrs now.  I've never owned a balloon tire bike or a road bike.  I've seen it all in those 38 yrs!!

Here's one for ya.  Sometimes we need to know for ourselves and try not to believe the
person selling us the bike.  Is this a Racer or not ..???? Does this guy REALLY know what
he's selling!!!! ( or even the guy buying it ..!! )


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## indiana dave (Jun 6, 2017)

That backwards fork clearly  indicates that it's a Wal-Mart or other department store bike.

Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk


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## bricycle (Jun 6, 2017)

Aren't all bikes adult male Schwinn racers???


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## corbettclassics (Jun 6, 2017)

indiana dave said:


> That backwards fork clearly  indicates that it's a Wal-Mart or other department store bike.
> 
> Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk




That's a good one Indiana Dave - I never thought of that..!!!! ( Wal-Mart department store ...... ha ha )


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## fat tire trader (Jun 6, 2017)

The reason why most people today call bikes that are fixed gear track bikes is their point of reference. They think about bikes from their 2017 mentality. Aside from the fixie craze, it has been a long time (more than 100 years) since fixed gear bikes were normal bikes, not specifically for racing on a track  The coaster brake was very popular here in the US.

In April I made a video of Ted Ernst explain the history of bicycle racing in the US and the transition from fixed gear to derailleurs. Even as a guy that has been collecting bikes since the 1970s and racing them since the 1980s, I found his speech very informative.

There are three parts to the video, here is the first part


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## carlitos60 (Jun 7, 2017)

Would This One be Considered a Track Racer, Road Racer, PaceMaker, or WalMart Junk???


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## fordmike65 (Jun 7, 2017)

carlitos60 said:


> Would This One be Considered a Track Racer, Road Racer, PaceMaker, or WalMart Junk???
> View attachment 477973



K-Mart


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## Rambler (Jun 7, 2017)

carlitos60 said:


> Would This One be Considered a Track Racer, Road Racer, PaceMaker, or WalMart Junk???




Coaster brake pretty much excludes any possibility of it being a Track Racer.  Road Racer, PaceMaker, or other is open to interpretation.


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## Velocipedist Co. (Jun 8, 2017)

I was once able to transform an unassuming beach cruiser into an authentic racer by inverting the handlebars.


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## cyclingday (Jun 9, 2017)

Yeah,
And then I took the fenders off, and it became a "Board Track Racer." Lol!


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## Hobo Bill (Jun 9, 2017)

i'm just tickled to have the Eldredge special to ride faster miles per pint....


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## Velocipedist Co. (Jun 9, 2017)

Factory racer with regulation chain and mud guards.


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## Vintage Paintworx (Jun 12, 2017)

I don't know about you guys, but all this talk about bikes makes me want to hit the trail with my low serial number, very limited production John Deere Board Tracker Beach Cruiser.


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## Velocipedist Co. (Jun 12, 2017)

Vintage Paintworx said:


> I don't know about you guys, but all this talk about bikes makes me want to hit the trail with my low serial number, very limited production John Deere Board Tracker Beach Cruiser.




Not a real board tracker until you flip those handlebars.


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## Vintage Paintworx (Jun 12, 2017)

Velocipedist Co. said:


> Not a real board tracker until you flip those handlebars.



Aftet I work all the bugs out, that will be first on the list.


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## dnc1 (Jun 13, 2017)

Vintage Paintworx said:


> I don't know about you guys, but all this talk about bikes makes me want to hit the trail with my low serial number, very limited production John Deere Board Tracker Beach Cruiser.



Can't wait to see it with the 'aero' grass collection box fitted!


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## indiana dave (Jun 13, 2017)

Picked up this bike a couple weeks ago. Still trying to figure out what it is. Fixed gear, leather seat without any springs, cut handlebars, but fairly fat tires. I'd think any "racer" would have narrow tires.



Sent from my LG-K373 using Tapatalk


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## Saving Tempest (Jun 13, 2017)

carlitos60 said:


> Would This One be Considered a Track Racer, Road Racer, PaceMaker, or WalMart Junk???
> View attachment 477973




It's CAMO, you knew that.


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## Saving Tempest (Jun 13, 2017)

The 'simple' and boring answer: Kids of all ages want to go FAST. Whether they do or not is irrelevant and perhaps their parents didn't want them to but giving them a pretentiously named diamond frame bike with swoopy handlebars would have been the equivalent of a 'mountain bike' today.

"Let the four winds blow" - Fats Domino


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## carlitos60 (Jun 13, 2017)

Saving Tempest said:


> The 'simple' and boring answer: Kids of all ages want to go FAST. Whether they do or not is irrelevant and perhaps their parents didn't want them to but giving them a pretentiously named diamond frame bike with swoopy handlebars would have been the equivalent of a 'mountain bike' today.
> 
> "Let the four winds blow" - Fats Domino




What Ever That Means;;;I Guest He is a TOC Racers Enthusiast!!!
Good Luck!


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## bricycle (Jun 13, 2017)

One can "Race" anything.... doesn't make it a Winner.


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## Robertriley (Jun 13, 2017)

Who knows about these bikes.  Unless we were there 120 years ago, we just don't know.


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## Saving Tempest (Jun 16, 2017)

carlitos60 said:


> What Ever That Means;;;I Guest He is a TOC Racers Enthusiast!!!
> Good Luck!




Not sure, but I spent hours bouncing on a rubber horse on springs when I was 4...


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## Saving Tempest (Jun 27, 2017)

bricycle said:


> One can "Race" anything.... doesn't make it a Winner.




Hence the Pinto dragster and Chevette racing series I remember seeing.


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## JimRoy (Jun 27, 2017)

I jazzed about racers now. I believe I will put some drop handlebars on my 39 Hawthorne and go racing.


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## Saving Tempest (Jul 20, 2017)

When we were little kids we didn't even NEED the coin in the slot for the horse ride to work. It always worked in our MINDS.


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