# kindly help ID early racer - PATD stamped BB



## mongeese (Oct 20, 2015)

Frame is light. Crank is stamped CF-400. Fork steer tube is stamped 405 22.


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## Handyman (Oct 20, 2015)

Not sure what it is mongeese but I like it.........................with the exception of those bars, they look horrible on that bike, please PM me and I'll take them off your hands.  Pete in Fitchburg


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## mongeese (Oct 20, 2015)

The bars have paint on them with what looks to be very very nice nickel underneath.


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## Handyman (Oct 20, 2015)

Darn !!


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## mongeese (Oct 31, 2015)

Any help?


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## bulldog1935 (Nov 1, 2015)

looks like a 6-digit serial number, which is big - should be a common maker



Patented Nov 19, 189x  
1892 Metz Elliptical crank http://www.google.com/patents/US513589 
1896 Quinn hand crank (unlikely)  http://www.google.com/patents/US582315 
1898 Hana chainless rod crank (also unlikely)  http://www.google.com/patents/US636260 
look at the date again and see if you can read it better or try different combinations on the year

Maybe it's Nov 19, 193x?


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## highwheel431 (Nov 1, 2015)

Patent dates would be the date of issue not the date of filing.  The only November 11 year for a patent pre 1900 would be 1895.  There where 9 bicycle related patents issued that day.
549917
549928
550067
550103
550116
550122 http://www.freepatentsonline.com/0550122.pdf
550206 http://www.freepatentsonline.com/0550206.pdf
550229
550231

Two of them relate to cranks '122 & '206

Ross


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## mongeese (Nov 1, 2015)

Have not gotten a chance to go through the links yet. Just seen the replies and a thousand thank yous bulldog1935 and highwheel431. Much appreciation truly.


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## bulldog1935 (Nov 2, 2015)

actually, if you owned the patent, you would claim the date you filed it


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## highwheel431 (Nov 2, 2015)

bulldog1935 said:


> actually, if you owned the patent, you would claim the date you filed it




Well I do have 10 patents and the official date of the patent is the issue date.  The patent has to be issued to have any status.  So the date that represents the patent is the date of issue, it is not a patent until then.  This is also the date that needs to be used to find the patent.  Patents are only issued on Tuesdays.  Defending the concept of conception is another issue with actually goes beyond the filing date.


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## bulldog1935 (Nov 2, 2015)

so it was you who stamped this bike


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## highwheel431 (Nov 2, 2015)

bulldog1935 said:


> so it was you who stamped this bike



When you see something marked "Patent Pending"  it has occurred after the patent has been filed but not issued.  You never see dates with this marking.  The stamping on this bike is "PATD".  That is what occurs on the day the patent is granted, until then there is no patent. Most filing are not granted. 

But bulldog1935 you can be snarky as you want and do you research as you see fit, after all you name is bulldog.


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## mongeese (Nov 10, 2015)

It is a nice frame and fork crank etc. I think it is going up for sale soon due to not being able to identify and I was really motivated to complete her but other projects pressing.


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## mongeese (Nov 10, 2015)

Someone said Stearns built their forks  this way. Any  folks out there in the wild blue yonder ?


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## shoe3 (Dec 24, 2015)

The serial number going around bottom bracket , Davis Sewing Machine Dayton bicycle ????


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## mongeese (Dec 24, 2015)

I have seen Dayton racers with this sprocket. The badge holes on headtube are staggered; the left is lower than the right. Side holes for badge not top and bottom.


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## mongeese (Jan 5, 2016)




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## hoofhearted (Jan 5, 2016)

*Hmmm .......*

*First Three Fotos ... from an ebay auction a few years ago.   

Girl's Miami.*














*Mystery Bicycle in this thread ....*















*Is this current 'mystery' bicycle possibly a Westfield production 
AFTER said company purchased Miami Cycle & Manuf. Co. ?*


........... patric


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## mongeese (Jan 5, 2016)




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## Kurt S. (Aug 28, 2017)

Hi,

  I know this is an old post, but I have to inquire if this bicycle was ever identified?

  Thank you,  Kurt


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## corbettclassics (Aug 29, 2017)

Yes, I had identified it as most likely a "Stormer" with a catalogue pic to Troy through PM


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## Kurt S. (Aug 29, 2017)

Excellent,  

  I'm hunting down information regarding a chainless when I stumbled onto this post.  I noticed the patent date stamped on the bottom.  It reads Nov. 18, 1888, and it's not a misprint. I believe this is in reference to a German patent number, I believe for now, with what information I have found that this was stamped on imported bicycles frames.  I also found English patents referencing back to this patent. The number of the patent is in the post I have on the Wheelmens site regarding this Chainless ID.

I don't have any information on a Stormer bicycle yet, but I will be looking into it.

Thank you again, Kurt


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## mongeese (Aug 29, 2017)

Thanks Kurt. Any info you find will be greatly appreciated and thanks again for your time regarding this post. The bike currently resides with a good friend of mine.


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## Kurt S. (Aug 30, 2017)

Hey Mongoose, 

  There is another patent date stamped on the bottom of the crank hanger on a number of other bicycles,  that of Nov. 13 1888.  This would be for an English patent.  

  The trade market for bicycle parts was huge and Germany, England and the USA, seem to rank the highest in the world.  

  I would not have known anything about this oddity of these patent stamps if it were not for my recent interest in a chainless I acquired. The ability to track brands by this alone is next to impossible.  They are not exclusive to any one manufacturer but components, frames, etc. disseminated through the world bicycle markets.

I haven't looked for anything from either of the suppliers, but there might be something generalized about it.  I just haven't looked that deep into it. There is probably someone sitting on that stuff in some file drawer somewhere.   

Kurt


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