# 20s-30s Track bike ID?



## Iverider (Aug 16, 2012)

Just wondering if anyone can help me ID this bike.

I couldn't find any serial numbers or makers marks on the frame. There are no holes for head badges which seems to be common on these racing bikes (why add extra weight)

It has a BSA Crank and Chainring. The Chainring has the same Copper colored finish as the frame, which seems like it could be the base copper plate on a nickel plated bike, but there isn't really any evidence of Nickel on it. There is some areas where it appears to be brass plated. I was thinking maybe the lugs were brass plated and the tubes were copper, but I couldn't be sure. 

It has open top seat stays and the lug work is unique in that it bloats rather than punks. The stem looks to be Schwinn and has an "AS" bolt on it. I couldn't find the Schwinn script logo on it. I absolutely love the handlebars in their swoopy glory. B17 Narrow saddle with the old school brass tag and Brampton pedals and headset nut. It currently has a 26" wheelset on it with a Schwinn Dural fixed gear rear hub and BSA front hub. These are likely non-original to the bike and I've been told the hoops are from the 40s or 50s.

Here are a few pictures. More detail photos on my Flickr site should you be interested in helping ID.

Thanks in advance.


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## Rambler (Aug 16, 2012)

I know very little about racing bikes so I can't offer any personal knowledge, however I did look in the book "Pre War Schwinn Bicycles" by James Hurd & T.A.Gordon. On pages 88 and 91 are listed respectively  the 1938 Paramount Racer retailing for $75 and 1938 Superior Racer retailing for $50. I can't say for sure your bike is one of these bikes however your bike looks somewhat similar to those two bikes. I believe Memory Lane sells copies of the book I am referring to if you are interested.


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## Iverider (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks! I will check it out. I've seen Paramounts with open top seat stays, but the lugs all appeared to be different.


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## Rear Facing Drop Out (Aug 16, 2012)

*not a paramount*

sure doesnt look like a paramount. Never seen one with the wrap around opening at  the seat post. Other then the neck I see nothing that links it to a paramount. Cool bike though. wish I had more input.


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## Rambler (Aug 16, 2012)

Attached is a scan of the Paramount so you can see the lugs, the Superior frame looks so much alike I can't really tell the difference between the two. The only difference between your frame and this that I could detect was maybe the rear wheel dropouts look slightly different where the seat stays connect to the dropout. So again, I'm not saying this is or is not your bike, just looks somewhat similar.


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## Andrew Gorman (Aug 16, 2012)

Check out:
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/USA.htm
At least for some pictures of pretty track bikes.  If you know where the bike came from, that could narrow things down.  Even after WWII there wore a lot of velodromes, and a lot of local builders building track bikes for them.  Most were never famous, and even ones that were well known, like  (local to me, sort of) DeSimone's in San Jose did not leave much of a record.  I like the lugwork at the fork crown!


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## Iverider (Aug 16, 2012)

I've been through much of that site, but I'm sure I've missed a few makers. The bike was purchased at the Indiana University Bike auction by the guy I bought it from. Kind of funny that the city that hosts the Little 500 Track race would have something this old laying around. It really is a beautifully constructed frame. The fork crown is gorgeous. I may just have to unbraze everything and put in longer tubes to fit me!  only joking.


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## detroitbike (Aug 16, 2012)

Not a schwinn Paramount or Superior BUT looks to have the Schwinn 'Major Taylor' type
 adjustable stem. Similar to most of my Prewar track bikes with the open top pencil thin seat stays.


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## rhenning (Aug 17, 2012)

The easy way to tell an older Paramount from an older Superior is the Paramount is a lugged frame and the Superior is a fillet Brazed frame (no lugs). Roger


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## Iverider (Aug 17, 2012)

I think it's been established that this is NOT a Paramount, but good to know. Thanks!


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## sam (Aug 18, 2012)

In the photo of the steam--looks like something on the lug just below the headset.
I've only seen open stays on French/and Canadain bikes--sure others did them too--I just haven't seen them.


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## VentusCustoms (Nov 5, 2012)

*Open Stays*



sam said:


> In the photo of the steam--looks like something on the lug just below the headset.
> I've only seen open stays on French/and Canadain bikes--sure others did them too--I just haven't seen them.




Open stays were used on track bikes meant to be ridden on indoor velodromes.  They did not need to be closed off since they would never be exposed to rain.


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## kccomet (Jun 5, 2022)

funny how stuff comes back around, 10 years later I bought this frame. it's too bad the parts were scattered to the wind. I'm looking for a headset for it, and I sure wish I had that rough copper plated bsa crankset. I believe this is was a copper plated dot bicycle...chester nelson st louis


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## ccdc.1 (Jun 5, 2022)

kccomet said:


> funny how stuff comes back around, 10 years later I bought this frame. it's too bad the parts were scattered to the wind. I'm looking for a headset for it, and I sure wish I had that rough copper plated bsa crankset. I believe this is was a copper plated dot bicycle...chester nelson st louis



As to the headset: 31/32" or 1" steerer threading?


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## kccomet (Jun 5, 2022)

I believe it's 1 inch


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