# Just saw this auction for Orient Bicycle still in original wooden crate



## Pete1wray (Nov 25, 2018)

I have no expertise in this era of bikes, so I have no idea about significance or value, and Hope this isn’t old news, but check it out: https://www.proxibid.com/Art-Antiqu...iginal-crate/lotInformation/45136256#topoflot


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## Jesse McCauley (Nov 25, 2018)

Ahhhhbummer thought I had a real lead on this one 


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## Freqman1 (Nov 25, 2018)

Too bad they don't show the head badge. V/r Shawn


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## gtdohn (Nov 25, 2018)

Looks like a kids bike


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## Freqman1 (Nov 25, 2018)

gtdohn said:


> Looks like a kids bike



I agree but that is awesome man cave clutter! V/r Shawn


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## gtdohn (Nov 25, 2018)

Agreed.


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## Pete1wray (Nov 25, 2018)

Call the auctioneer and ask for a head badge photo. Earlywine Auctions (765) 438-6041. I assume seat and bars are in small crate box above seat tube.


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## bikewhorder (Nov 25, 2018)

I wanna see whats in that box.


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## catfish (Nov 25, 2018)

bikewhorder said:


> I wanna see whats in that box.




It has to be the pedals and seat. Maybe a few other goodies.


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## Jesse McCauley (Nov 27, 2018)

I'm going to be a bidder on this auction as a curiosity but..... I have quite a few reservations. 
First I don't believe the bicycle is an Orient. The badge isn't orient and the chain stays don't appear to be orient, and it is indeed a childs bicycle. 
So all that said, why is it in an Orient crate? Is it even a real crate or just a fantasy piece? 
Then if its a fantasy piece, why would they put a nice set of pedals and saddle etc in that smaller box...why not just fill it with rocks and tissue paper? 
Mystery!


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## Jesse McCauley (Nov 27, 2018)

Baby Windle for those that are curious-







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## New Mexico Brant (Nov 27, 2018)

@ratrodz   Does yours have the box for the pedals and seat?


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## Freqman1 (Nov 27, 2018)

I wonder if "Baby Windle" wasn't their juvenile line? While I'm no TOC expert by any stretch from what I have seen a lot of the makers juvenile models didn't always have the same characteristics as their adult models. Certainly worthy of further research. If the provenance was known this may answer some questions e.g. found in old hardware store or from old time collector. V/r Shawn


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## Jesse McCauley (Nov 27, 2018)

Windle is another mfg from Worcester, MA. ( edit - I knew I spelled that wrong) 
Orient bicycles have distinct characterstics that carry over between all of their models in some way shape or form.
I have been wrong many times, but I would wager this is not an Orient bicycle.


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## catfish (Nov 27, 2018)

Worcester, Ma.

https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/why-is-worcester-pronounced-wooster


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## Freqman1 (Nov 27, 2018)

Jesse McCauley said:


> Windle is another mfg from Worcester, MA. ( edit - I knew I spelled that wrong)
> Orient bicycles have distinct characterstics that carry over between all of their models in some way shape or form.
> I have been wrong many times, but I would wager this is not an Orient bicycle.



That being the case it would certainly raise a red flag for me. Will you be able to attend the auction in person? I would bid on this as if I were just bidding on the bike. V/r Shawn


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## danfitz1 (Nov 27, 2018)

bikewhorder said:


> I wanna see whats in that box.




And I'll take what's behind door #3 where Carol Merrill is now standing.................


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## stoney (Nov 27, 2018)

I by no means know anything about TOC bikes, BUT..... My gut always churns when I see such an item still in it's real original crate? Looks right from the picture. Looks like a paper tag on the top board. Curious what it says.  My first thought was bogus. ( I hope not ) I saw it said Orient on the crate but was also curious why there was no shot of the badge. Hope someone here gets it and it is legit. Good luck.


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## New Mexico Brant (Nov 27, 2018)

Maybe Windle was a Waltham/Orient branch company at some point?  Windle was such a famous racer at the time but continued in the family wool mill business and doesn't seem to have produced bicycles.  It would seem that someone already in the bicycle business used his name under contract and produced the bicycles.  Similar to Trek sales representatives who also were offering Lemond and Armstrong brand bikes to retail outlets.  Windle was a rock star at that time!


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## oldspoke (Nov 27, 2018)

I once owned a bike in a shipping crate. I was the 3rd owner. The bike was a "Shawmut" distributed by Bigelow and Dowse of Boston. It was in the Pedaling History Museum for awhile then sold at Copake when the museum closed. Many folks thought - Wow ! A bike that was never ridden and still in the crate. Not the case. The original owner was from New Hampshire and would travel to Maine for Summer vacation. He kept the original crate to ship the bike back and forth. 

This Baby Windle doesn't have the signature Orient patent fork crown. Perhaps a bike in a period "bike box" for shipping ?

Willie "Wee Willie" Windle was a famous racer of high bicycles in Massachusetts. Has raced at Hampden Park in Springfield Mass. not far from Worcester . Coincidence in name or connection ?


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## corbettclassics (Nov 27, 2018)

Willie Windle started the Windle Cycle Co at the beginning of 1896.  By the end of the year it was defunct.  Windle Cycle Co was a one yr only company.  I have lots of information on Windle.
If this is a Windle, then I’m going to say it’s the first one to ever show up. Just as rare as a Zimmy for instance. They did an Onyx finish on their frames that was a secret in the bicycle world. It was very unique and they were secretive about how it was done.

I need to see the chainstay where it connects to the b/b to see if it’s a real Windle.


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## corbettclassics (Nov 27, 2018)

When I enlarge the picture of it in the crate, I can say 100% that this bike is a real Windle.  For me, I’d say one of the rarest bikes in the bicycle world to surface - that’s my opinion!


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## corbettclassics (Nov 27, 2018)




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## corbettclassics (Nov 27, 2018)

I've just browsed through my 1896 Windle Cycle Co. catalogue and there is no mention of the "Baby Windle". I need to read some of my articles - I have many.


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## New Mexico Brant (Nov 27, 2018)

oldspoke said:


> Willie "Wee Willie" Windle was a famous racer of high bicycles in Massachusetts. Has raced at Hampden Park in Springfield Mass. not far from Worcester . Coincidence in name or connection ?



Windle lived in Worcester.


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## corbettclassics (Nov 27, 2018)

The Windle Cycle Company was in Worchester but he lived and grew up in Millbury.  Although he might have lived in Worchester as well, I wasn't aware of it. I think he might have lived there when the company was producing bicycles because he was responsible for supervising the construction of all the racing machines that the company produced.

I'll start a thread in the TOC RACERS section on Willie Windle.  He was one of the top 4 men in the country next to Rowe and Zimmerman.


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## pelletman (Nov 28, 2018)

Willie still holds the 1 mile record on the ordinary from what I  understand.


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## pelletman (Nov 28, 2018)

And it's Worcester, Bill.  Pronounced Woostah!


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## pelletman (Dec 1, 2018)

Anyone know what this went for?


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## pelletman (Dec 1, 2018)

Oops, I am a bit early


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## Jesse McCauley (Dec 1, 2018)

I'm still in on it, I was tempted by the baaaaaadass railroad velocipede also in this auction but I think I'm gonna let that go and focus on the Windle in an Orient wrapper.


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## Jesse McCauley (Dec 1, 2018)

That 22% proxibid fee can suck me though


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## GTs58 (Dec 1, 2018)

Jesse McCauley said:


> That 22% proxibid fee can suck me though




No doubt! That's absurd to say the least.


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## Jesse McCauley (Dec 1, 2018)

I didn't end up with it but a friend and caber did, hopefully we get to see a photo-essay of this bike once he gets it.


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## Jeff54 (Dec 1, 2018)

Sold for:   $2,700.00      to M****0

https://www.proxibid.com/Art-Antiqu...ill-in-original-crate/lotInformation/45136256


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## locomotion (Dec 1, 2018)

Good thing a serious collector bought it. We won't see it parted out on Ebay.


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## locomotion (Dec 1, 2018)

oldspoke said:


> I once owned a bike in a shipping crate. I was the 3rd owner. The bike was a "Shawmut" distributed by Bigelow and Dowse of Boston. It was in the Pedaling History Museum for awhile then sold at Copake when the museum closed. Many folks thought - Wow ! A bike that was never ridden and still in the crate. Not the case. The original owner was from New Hampshire and would travel to Maine for Summer vacation. He kept the original crate to ship the bike back and forth.
> 
> This Baby Windle doesn't have the signature Orient patent fork crown. Perhaps a bike in a period "bike box" for shipping ?
> 
> Willie "Wee Willie" Windle was a famous racer of high bicycles in Massachusetts. Has raced at Hampden Park in Springfield Mass. not far from Worcester . Coincidence in name or connection ?




Funny how someone would get a bike disassembled, crated and shipped from NH to MA each time they travelled. It's not that far.


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## GTs58 (Dec 1, 2018)

Jeff54 said:


> Sold for:   $2,700.00      to M****0
> 
> https://www.proxibid.com/Art-Antiqu...ill-in-original-crate/lotInformation/45136256




Lets not forget the 22% premium fee. So the total was $3294.00 out the door.


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## Jeff54 (Dec 2, 2018)

I'm also inclined to consider the crate is just for shipping, and possibly storage.


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## Jesse McCauley (Dec 2, 2018)

My best grown theory:

Like many of us, early 20th c bike shops would have saved shipping crates for re-use after new shipments arrived. When a customer would request packing a bike for transport I imagine the first choice would be re-using an existing crate in storage vs. building a new one. 

My guess is this bike was packed in such a scenario for a customer and then for whatever reason never opened again.

That would explain the Windle in Orient clothing, and it would still be an “authentic” item. 

Looking forward to hearing what’s in the compartment.


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## Jeff54 (Dec 2, 2018)

Jesse McCauley said:


> My best grown theory:
> 
> Looking forward to hearing what’s in the compartment.
> 
> ...





'Don't buy a pig in a poke' [grin]


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## kccomet (Dec 2, 2018)

baby windle what a cool badge, sounds like a cartoon. love to see this little bike set up as a racer. as for what's in the box...I like a good mystery


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## oldmtrcyc (Dec 13, 2018)

Every orient bicycle that I have seen has round holes in the sprocket.  You can spot one from 50 feet.


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## Dweber (Dec 14, 2018)

Shipping tag on top of Baby Windle crate. Any ideas of addressee?


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## Dweber (Dec 14, 2018)

Name found on inside of crate? Seems to be associated with Bridgeport, CT. somehow? *Definetly a Orient crate and a Windle bicycle!*


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## Jeff54 (Dec 17, 2018)

That is the address, and another in the crate. Back in the day, TOC,  the post office knew where you lived. Tons of mail was sent just to the name of person and city.

So, you've got two different addressees: C. F. Steim and  P. W. Westorkey, or whatever correct spelling is, Bridgeport Conn. However, it is possible, with big search, to find the names in the censes which should have the actual house number and street these people lived on.  


Dweber said:


> Shipping tag on top of Baby Windle crate. Any ideas of addressee?


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## Jesse McCauley (Dec 17, 2018)

@Dweber can’t wait to see the full exploratory photo series!!


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## Mercian (Dec 17, 2018)

Hi,

this could be your guy Conrad F. Stein of Bridgeport, Fairfield County, Conn.

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/08/b9/a0/b477d42d983bd4/USD29649.pdf

If so, then here he is as a Leading Businessman in Bridgeport 

Conrad F. Stein, West End Meat Market, Bassick's Block, State Street. — 
Among the many and varied industries pursued in Bridgeport, the establishment prominently known as the West End Market is deserving of particular attention in a work of this kind, which is devoted to the investigation of the various enterprises of the city. 

This market was established in 1884, by Conrad F. Stein, who has so successfully managed his business during the three years since that date, that to-day his establishment holds a prominent position in this community. The premises utilized are located in Bassick's block, State street extension, and comprise one tloor, 35x20 feet in dimensions, and is well stocked with a choice assortment of meats, etc., which include prime beef, mutton, lamb, veal, pork, and all kinds of vegetables in their seasons. The extended trade of this market requires the employment of three assistants in addition to the close personal management of the proprietor. This house deals exclusively in first class goods; therefore, customers can depend upon here obtaining goods that will meet with their approval in all respects. 

Mr. Stein is a native of New York State, a gentleman familiar in every detail with all that appertains to the business and the wants of the market, carrying a stock made up of the best and most reliable goods known to the trade. It is incumbent on buyers in the advancement of their own interests, that in making purchases they bear in mind the above house, where the variety is complete and the«piices invariably satisfactory. 

https://archive.org/stream/leadingbusinessm00beck/leadingbusinessm00beck_djvu.txt

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Dweber (Dec 17, 2018)

I may be getting ahead of myself but I believe C.F. Stein was a inventor. He possibly applied for the patents for the Windle Bicycle. (click on link in post above and it shows one of his patents).The Baby Windle bicycle has all of the features listed in the article (Needs No Oil) on the Windle Special Racer. Its like the Baby Windle was a small size (15" frame) version of the Windle Special. I am hoping to get some photos soon and post them.


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## Dweber (Dec 17, 2018)

More on the Windle Cycle Co. (Thanks to Billy Corbett)


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## willswares1220 (Dec 17, 2018)

We're still waiting to solve that mystery "small wood box" in the shipping crate. Is it empty or does it hold a treasure??


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## Dweber (Dec 17, 2018)

The mystery of the "small wood box" has been solved. The two original rat trap pedal for the bike were inside. When I revieved the bike the pedals fell out of the box. The wooden lid was loose. Trying to back track to see if any other pieces exist that may have fallen out previously. *Looking for a "Gilliam Saddle" and TOC downturn bars with Corkaline grips*. Thanks Dave


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## 66TigerCat (Dec 18, 2018)

pelletman said:


> Willie still holds the 1 mile record on the ordinary from what I  understand.




Pelletman - I remember a Windle bike that you displayed at the Larz Andersen show about 10 years ago. Still have it ?


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## corbettclassics (Dec 18, 2018)

66TigerCat said:


> Pelletman - I remember a Windle bike that you displayed at the Larz Andersen show about 10 years ago. Still have it ?




Tigercat - I think I remember Dave telling me that it was an Iver Johnson owned by Windle and the Windle family.  ( Not a Windle bike though )  Maybe Dave will chime in here.


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## corbettclassics (Dec 18, 2018)

I have posted some information about Windle in the *"TOC - RACER" *thread if anyone would like to learn a little about Willie Windle.


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## pelletman (Dec 18, 2018)

Bill is correct


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