# 1915 Sears Chief - The Orange Chief changes hands - my new project



## Gary Mc

Just got one of the top bicycles on my Top 5 wanted list, a 1915 Sears Chief thanks to Bricycle.  Have to say thanks to Bri again for selling this bike to me and the great packaging job. Ever since RRB member "backpedaler" brought this bike to the surface in February 2012 (before Bri bought it) I had been wanting to see what's under that orange paint, now I'm getting my chance finally up close & personal.  Here's an old pic of the Chief together & packed for shipping to me. 










Here's the first peek under the orange paint, dark red & ivory are still there but there is a good deal of missing paint.  The ivory paint looks pretty amazing.  The black pinstripes were there but will be lost getting the orange paint off.  This orange paint may be the toughest paint I've ever seen.  Xylene does absolutely nothing to it so I am having to use lacquer thinner very slowly so getting all the orange off is going to be a long slow careful process.  Where I go from here depends on how much paint is there & how it looks.  Not worried about the pinstripes they'll be reapplied & distressed to match the original paint for now.  I would prefer to leave it original paint, put it back together & ride it, but if not enough paint is still on the bike it'll become a full restoration project which is not my first choice on any bike.

















Bought the correct Sturmey Archer Tricoaster hub and shifter from CABE member mcdillis a couple of weeks ago so it will go back with the correct hubs.  It's a little rough & needs a rebuild but it's all there minus the indicator rod & chain coupling.  Came off a 1916 Chief.









Here's two accessories I bought last year waiting for a 1915 Chief to come along.  1915 Vesta Accumulator Light & canister and a 1915 Illinois bicycle license.  Finally have something to use them on.









This bike will get 700c rims and cream Electra Amsterdams, already on order to make it a rider.  Front hub will be a New Departure Model M and I already have a NOS one I bought off ebay from nostalgicdave.  The only other items that will go on the bike will be leather grips already bought off a teens Westfield in decent condition last year & still need to find a Klaxon horn and maybe one day original Chief pedals.  Hopefully I'll get to work on orange paint removal over the weekend.


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## bricycle

Looking good Gary, paint looks good under so far...  I know its gone to a caring home!!


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## rustyspoke66

Wow congrats Gary! Paint looks good so far.


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## pedal4416

*!!!*

Nice score Gary. I cant wait to see this bike all done, Im jealous of the build already!


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## chitown

Congrats Gary. Looking forward to seeing more paint revealed... and the BUILD!

Chris


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## willswares1220

*Nice find !*

LOOKING GOOD SO FAR !!!!
It's fun to see what's under a layer of ugly paint and having an eye for detail.
With your PATIENCE and SKILL you'll have an interesting bike in your collection.
I also look forward to seeing it completed!


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## Oldnut

Killer bike can't wait to see the updates


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## Larmo63

Now you have one more restoration "under way!!!"

Good luck with it Gary, it's in caring hands....


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## Gary Mc

bricycle said:


> Looking good Gary, paint looks good under so far...  I know its gone to a caring home!!




Thanks Bri, I am going to go VERY slow & try to save the paint, just hope I keep seeing that much.


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## Gary Mc

rustyspoke66 said:


> Wow congrats Gary! Paint looks good so far.




Thanks rusty, so far so good, keeping my fingers crossed!!!


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## Gary Mc

pedal4416 said:


> Nice score Gary. I cant wait to see this bike all done, Im jealous of the build already!




Thanks Tom, it will be another FUN one once all the orange is gone LOL. Never did like orange unless it was on a Flying Merkel.


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## Gary Mc

chitown said:


> Congrats Gary. Looking forward to seeing more paint revealed... and the BUILD!
> 
> Chris




Thanks Chris, me too.  Plan to work on that paint all day Saturday so hope to see a lot more red & cream and a lot less orange!!!!!


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## Gary Mc

willswares1220 said:


> LOOKING GOOD SO FAR !!!!
> It's fun to see what's under a layer of ugly paint and having an eye for detail.
> With your PATIENCE and SKILL you'll have an interesting bike in your collection.
> I also look forward to seeing it completed!




Thanks wills.  Yeah it's funny that orange paint job has driven my curiosity crazy for over a year never thinking I'd be the one owning the bike & removing it.


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## Gary Mc

Oldnut said:


> Killer bike can't wait to see the updates




Thanks Oldnut!!!!!!!  Hopefully since I have all the parts for this one I'll get it done a little quicker than the others.


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## Gary Mc

Larmo63 said:


> Now you have one more restoration "under way!!!"
> 
> Good luck with it Gary, it's in caring hands....




Lawrence, you are so right on the one more "under way"!!!!!  You'd think I could get something, anything finished.  Luckily the Girardengo didn't need much & is done and on the road, the 30' Hartford is finished except building the wheels, and then I'll be back to only 3 projects.  I think this one just moved ahead of the 27' Stutz, I still need a drop stand for it and a week to clean it up to get it back together.  Hoping I can actually have all these on the road in the next 2 months now that the parts search is almost over on all of them.


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## Iverider

Buncha nice Chiefs lately! Now where are the rest of the Indians.

Gary...you're running low on bikes to want (in your sig line)!


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## Gary Mc

Krautwaggen said:


> Buncha nice Chiefs lately! Now where are the rest of the Indians.
> 
> Gary...you're running low on bikes to want (in your sig line)!




Brian, there are a few more LOL, but I plan to start the search for a Racycle in 2014.  Hopefully all but one of my current projects will be on the road by then and my Wife will be over me purchasing another bike.  I'm still kicking myself for not buying one of the Racycles on ebay last year that was fairly complete and exactly what I want.


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## bricycle

All in good time, All in good time my pretty..... and your little dog too!....aaah ha,ah,ah.....(witch sounds).......


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## Iverider

bricycle said:


> All in good time, All in good time my pretty..... and your little dog too!....aaah ha,ah,ah.....(witch sounds).......




I wonder if flying merkels will be following shortly behind the witch?


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## Greg M

Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians? Can you really have too many Chiefs?  
That's going to come up real nice Gary.


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## carlitos60

*Feedback!*

Hey Guys,,,, Did Sears Built the Chief then went to the Elgin Moto? When??? Because It looks like my Elgin as far as Frame, Seat, Handlebar, everything but he Badge!!!!!!

Feedback Please???

Thanks!:o


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## bricycle

carlitos... pics please.
As early as 1915, Sears and Roebuck built the Chief and Napoleon. Not positive when the same framed Elgin appeared. Never seen an Elgin with the shallow fenders of 1915 thru 1917 tho.


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## Balloontyre

carlitos60 said:


> Hey Guys,,,, Did Sears Built the Chief then went to the Elgin Moto? When??? Because It looks like my Elgin as far as Frame, Seat, Handlebar, everything but he Badge!!!!!!
> 
> Feedback Please???
> 
> Thanks!:o




In seriousness, Chief was first 1915-1919, then 1920&21 Elgin Moto that has the Chief features just different badge.  
Can you post a couple pics.







Elgin actually made all bikes between 1915 and 1922


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## Gary Mc

Balloontyre said:


> Elgin actually made all bikes between 1915 and 1922




Ivo, I think you meant Davis Sewing Machine Co. actually made all bikes between 1915 and 1922??????


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## Balloontyre

Gary Mc said:


> Ivo, I think you meant Davis Sewing Machine Co. actually made all bikes between 1915 and 1922??????




Elgin made those too, OK maybe not All, but definitely the Meads and Harleys...ya that's it:eek:


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## carlitos60

*My Elgin just Like the Chief????*

View attachment 88958

:o:o:o:o:o:o:





Doesn't it Looks the Same????? That is my Elgin, I only changed the tires to 700x32 so I'm riding it now!

Feedback Please, because I'm trying to Date mine! I think it's 1910s???

Thanks!


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## chitown

carlitos60 said:


> Feedback Please, because I'm trying to Date mine! I think it's 1910s???




I would say late teens to early twenties. The motorbike style made their debut around 1914-15. Chief's were offered by Sears as was Elgin branded bikes. Excelsior Cycle Co is a prime suspect for manufacturer, but I would caution that there are many other suspects that could have been part of assembling these machines... Davis Sewing Machine and Westfield Mfg were sourced by Sears also.


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## Balloontyre

carlitos60 said:


> View attachment 88958
> 
> :o:o:o:o:o:o:View attachment 88959View attachment 88959
> Doesn't it Looks the Same????? That is my Elgin, I only changed the tires to 700x32 so I'm riding it now!
> 
> Feedback Please, because I'm trying to Date mine! I think it's 1910s???
> 
> Thanks!




Your bike looks 23/24 based on paint scheme, yes it is similar to the Chief. From what I see, the only component of your ride that is close to Chief is the saddle.  There are differences in the stand, neck, bars, grips, chainring.  I would lean to Excelsior built Elgin badged moto jamma.
Nice ride!!


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## dave the wave

some elgins were painted the same as chiefs.they just had different part offerings than what were exclusive to the chief.


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## Gary Mc

dave the wave said:


> some elgins were painted the same as chiefs.they just had different part offerings than what were exclusive to the chief.




Carlitos, Here's a later Chief (1917 or later) on left & an Elgin on right to show how similar the paint schemes were as Dave says.  I believe this Elgin is early 20's, similar to yours.  Paint scheme & 28" wheels are about all they have in common though.  Different manufacturers made these bikes.  Your saddle does look like the Troxel Tru-Form, which was used on Chiefs although most Chiefs say "Chief" & not "Troxel" on the sides.  I don't have the catalogs to be sure but the Chiefs were manufactured/sold through 1920/21 & I believe the Elgins' with the same paint followed them around 1920/21 for a few years.  Need someone with catalogs for those years to confirm.


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## dfa242

That's a picture from the previous owner of my '24 Elgin on the right in Gary's last post.  Here's one that shows the paint scheme a little better after a good cleaning.


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## bricycle

That's naaaaace!


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## ejlwheels

That snowflake sprocket is different from the usual Elgin snowflake and the only other place I have seen it is on Excelsior (Michigan City, Indiana) bikes and in their catalogs...

View attachment 89044


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## chitown

That more square looking snowflake ring goes back to 1905-8 era Chicago Excelsiors. Must have had a bunch of NOS they had access to.


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## dfa242

Interesting - here's a closer view.


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## dfa242

Here's another one on Nostalgic.net that appears to have that sprocket - check out the paint on *this* one!

http://www.nostalgic.net/bicycle316/picture1268


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## bricycle

My 23? Elgin. Same ring?


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## carlitos60

*1915 Sears Chief*

:o:o:o

With my initial question I did not mean to Change the Subject of The 1915 Sears Chief-The Orange Chief!!!!!

That is a Very Special Bike, since it Started It All!!!!

Enjoy that Baby!!!!!


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## ejlwheels

*I think this ground has been covered before, and a diversion from the Chief...*

The Elgin on Nostalgic.Net has a bottle cap badge, which suggests that it was made by Davis rather than Excelsior?


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## bricycle

ejlwheels said:


> The Elgin on Nostalgic.Net has a bottle cap badge, which suggests that it was made by Davis rather than Excelsior?




So did my 23 pictured...


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## Balloontyre

I was aware that Excelsior also had the bottle cap attachment for the headbadge. 


Gary, sorry to contribute to the diversion of the thread, but in the end we're all learning.


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## Gary Mc

Balloontyre said:


> Gary, sorry to contribute to the diversion of the thread, but in the end we're all learning.




No problem on changing the topic, I think I even contributed to it.  Feel free to use this thread so we can all learn about these great bikes, Chiefs & Elgins from the teens & early twenties.  It will get back on track in due time.


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## dfa242

bricycle said:


> So did my 23 pictured...




So does mine - didn't realize that identified it with a particular builder.  

Okay Gary, you can have your thread back - just had to pursue this interesting sidebar for a bit.


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## oddball

Gonna look good Gary,using P35s with Amsterdams on my 1916 Chief as well,and had to make them look old.The tri-coaster hub on mine had no indicator rod and assuming neither does yours,still trying to figure that out,so please let me know how your gonna deal with that and I'll do the same.
Cliff


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## bricycle

Those rims look amazing!!! you people kill me.....


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## rustyspoke66

Great job, very inspiring.


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## Gary Mc

oddball said:


> Gonna look good Gary,using P35s with Amsterdams on my 1916 Chief as well,and had to make them look old.The tri-coaster hub on mine had no indicator rod and assuming neither does yours,still trying to figure that out,so please let me know how your gonna deal with that and I'll do the same.
> CliffView attachment 89190View attachment 89191View attachment 89192




Cliff, Your P35s look absolutely amazing the way you aged them.  I love the look.  I ordered Ghisallo wood rims last week & he ran out before he got to my order and is no longer carrying them leaving no US distributor.  Now I'd have to order them from Italy so I may follow your lead with the P35's but not sure yet.  It was a real bummer on the Ghisallo's. I also learned the original 1915 Chief rims were 36 spoke rear, 32 spoke front so I may try to find a 32 spoke hub for the front.  They were 36/36 by 1917 and not sure on 1916 yet, trying to find a catalog.  Still trying to work all this out.

Yeah, I have same issues with the Tri-Coaster, I may try a couple of later indicator rods to see if they'll work or can be modified to work.  I'll let you know.  Appreciate you doing the same.


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## oddball

Hey Gary my 1916 had 32 front,the pic is the original 32 spoke hub though don't know what it is.I used 11 7/16" nos torrington spokes that I aged also.The back hub Sturmey Archer Type S should I think use 11 1/8" for P35 rims.I wish there was someone on the Cabe that could repair our SA hubs,anybody out there?  Oh by the way I'm also putting a Accumulator light on mine, but need the bracket.I will be making the old Columbia batteries with a 6 volt R C rechargeable inside. 

Cliff


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## bricycle

Looking good Cliff!!   ..are those Raleigh 28" 's?


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## Iverider

Can't seem to find the "Like" button so I'll just say ME LIKES!

I'm working on this same thing with some p35s. I'll post a photo near step-by-step of what I've done when I'm all finished.


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## oddball

Yes they are Bri and can't wait to get my SA tri coaster working so I can get the P35's on.


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## Gary Mc

oddball said:


> Hey Gary my 1916 had 32 front,the pic is the original 32 spoke hub though don't know what it is.I used 11 7/16" nos torrington spokes that I aged also.The back hub Sturmey Archer Type S should I think use 11 1/8" for P35 rims.I wish there was someone on the Cabe that could repair our SA hubs,anybody out there?  Oh by the way I'm also putting a Accumulator light on mine, but need the bracket.I will be making the old Columbia batteries with a 6 volt R C rechargeable inside.
> 
> Cliff
> View attachment 89292View attachment 89293View attachment 89294View attachment 89295




WOW Cliff!!!!!!  You're 1916 is gorgeous, can't wait to see the P35's on it.  I think the Vesta Accumulator lights & canister's are going to look great on these bikes.  I bought off ebay today a "long SA indicator rod & chain for coaster brake hubs".  We'll see if it comes close to working when I get it or if it can be modified to work, I'll let you know.  I also found a early metal SA pulley for the seat post which I was missing on ebay today out of England.  I believe it exactly the same as on the Chiefs, we'll see on that item too.


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## Gary Mc

*"Indian" New Departure Bell*

Found the perfect accessory for this bike, a "Indian" New Departure Bell.  Paid WAY too much but figured when would I see another one for sale, especially this nice with perfect patina.  This bell was just stunningly beautiful with great features to me.


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## bricycle

Great bell!!!!


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## GiovanniLiCalsi

Wow!!
You are the chief!
Very handsome bell.
I can see the value in that.


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## Gary Mc

*New Departure Model M 32H without oiler port*

Finally got a correct front hub, New Departure Model M 32 hole without oiler port.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi

Do these come in 36 spoke, also?


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## bricycle

giovannilicalsi said:


> do these come in 36 spoke, also?




yep........


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## Gary Mc

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> Do these come in 36 spoke, also?




Yes on 36H, 1915 & 1916 Chiefs however went 32H front & 36H rear so the Chief will go back the same.  36H are easier to find, I think markivpedalpusher advertised some last night.  32H = HTF (hard to find).  In 1917, Chiefs went to 36H front.


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## bricycle

Gary Mc said:


> Yes on 36H, 1915 & 1916 Chiefs however went 32H front & 36H rear so the Chief will go back the same.  36H are easier to find, I think markivpedalpusher advertised some last night.  32H = HTF (hard to find).  In 1917, Chiefs went to 36H front.




I think all his fronts were 32's....


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## Iverider

YEP!

Although it seems that most of the time 36 holes are what's available. So if you need a 32...buy it while you can!


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## Buddy Lee

*love the info*

Hey guys new to the forum- I recently also picked up a 1917 cheif bicycle that I'm getting into riding shape- Been into English bikes for awhile now have been wanting to do a american 28" wheeled bike to ride with my roadster buddys- Your cheif threads have been very helpfull and I will post some pics soon- Have all the parts just about together but I'm thinking this build will be fenderless. Building the wheels now and hope to have it out on the streets in the next couple weeks!


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## Larmo63

Chief speakum with forked tongue.........


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## Buddy Lee

My 1917 Chief- My main goal was to build this one for putting in the miles- Nothing like mashing on a group ride with a bunch of roadies when they ask " hey man what year is that thing" - Turned out to be a nice riding bicycle- On to the next project!!!


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## bricycle

Nice ride Bud!


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## Gary Mc

Buddy Lee said:


> My 1917 Chief- My main goal was to build this one for putting in the miles- Nothing like mashing on a group ride with a bunch of roadies when they ask " hey man what year is that thing" - Turned out to be a nice riding bicycle- On to the next project!!!




Buddy, Your Chief came out great.  It does look like a great rider & bet it does get some stares being a 1917 rider!!!!!!!!  Love seeing those SA Tricoaster hubs in working condition.  No progress on mine, too much work right now.  Trying to finish my 27' Stutz & can't even find time to work on it.  Hopefully I can get back on both fall/winter.


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## Balloontyre

Buddy Lee said:


> My 1917 Chief- My main goal was to build this one for putting in the miles- Nothing like mashing on a group ride with a bunch of roadies when they ask " hey man what year is that thing" - Turned out to be a nice riding bicycle- On to the next project!!!




Dig the look of your bike, can you please post a closer profile picture of the front fork and truss rod top plate. Thank you


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## mikecuda

Gary.    I have a Chief.  Can you tell me a source(s) for the correct paint for mine.    THX  Mine is in primer.


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## Freqman1

mikecuda said:


> Gary.    I have a Chief.  Can you tell me a source(s) for the correct paint for mine.    THX  Mine is in primer.



He was last seen here 3 years ago!


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