# 1951 Schwinn Black Phantom



## dtaylor613 (Jul 11, 2020)

Alright guys. I am hoping to buy this bike tomorrow. With it being such an expensive bike, would anyone (more knowledgeable than myself) be able to look over the bike and let me know if anything looks out of place? Serial number checks out. I was told it was re-chromed several years back. Paint appears to be in good shape. Not sure if there is any way to tell for certain if it is all original(?) Seat looks to be a repop. Not sure on the pedals...

Also, if anyone could help me out a fair value/estimate on the bike. I am only asking to make sure I am paying a fair price.

Pictures to follow original post (my phones acting up atm)...


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## dtaylor613 (Jul 11, 2020)

Photos attached


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## Adamtinkerer (Jul 11, 2020)

Looks good, Phantoms tend to sell between $500-$1200, depending of course on condition and originality. Tough to tell a repop part from a rechromed og, unless you're looking at it in person! Original screws are slotted, I see a few from the pics.


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## 1817cent (Jul 11, 2020)

I believe the saddle could be newer than the bike.  Other than that, all looks good to me.  I agree with the price range offered above.  This bike looks to be at the top end.


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## Freqman1 (Jul 11, 2020)

The bike looks like a repaint to me but looks correct from what I see. V/r Shawn


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## old hotrod (Jul 11, 2020)

The devil is in the details and no real way to tell from those pictures. Original pinstripes were done by hand and end in nice clean points, repainted bikes rarely do a good pin job. The repop fenders i think only came with holes for the large 2hole deluxe reflector housing, at least mine did. When the fenders get rechromed, the xtra layer of chrome makes the fenders stiff, be easy to tell. Pedals are easy to spot, other stuff not so much. 

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## dtaylor613 (Jul 11, 2020)

Thanks for the feedback everyone. The deal is at the top range of what you have suggested. It also is in better shape than most I have seen.

Are these generally good riding bikes? I've actually never ridden or even been in front of one in person. I grew up riding bicycles, dirt bikes, and in more recent years motorcycles (sportbike). I am new to the classic bicycle world. It started with me picking a BF Goodrich bike and reading about how Schwinn and BF Goodrich collaborated. This later lead me to looking at other Schwinn bikes and really wanting a black phantom.

More or less I am looking for something nice to cruise around in the neighborhood with the girlfriend, and hold for many years to come.


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## old hotrod (Jul 11, 2020)

They are built and ride like a brick sh@t house...they are very comfortable cruisers 

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## dtaylor613 (Jul 11, 2020)

old hotrod said:


> The devil is in the details and no real way to tell from those pictures. Original pinstripes were done by hand and end in nice clean points, repainted bikes rarely do a good pin job. The repop fenders i think only came with holes for the large 2hole deluxe reflector housing, at least mine did. When the fenders get rechromed, the xtra layer of chrome makes the fenders stiff, be easy to tell. Pedals are easy to spot, other stuff not so much.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk




Definitely understand what you are saying. I plan to look it over in person before handing over the money, but the unfortunate part is that there are none anywhere close to me and I am limited to the photos people send me until I can get to it. 

If only I lived closer towards Illinois. I have seen several in that area  . I have found most will not ship and it is too far for me to drive.


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## old hotrod (Jul 11, 2020)

Sent you a DM...

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## WES PINCHOT (Jul 11, 2020)

I TEND TO AGREE WITH FREGMAN AND HOTROD.
THE FENDERS LOOK LIKE OLDER REPOPS THAT DID NOT HAVE AN EXTRA REFLECTOR HOLE.
THE TANK ALSO REPOP
THE LOCK LOOKS OUT OF ORDER AND NEEDS REPAIR AND KEY.
THE PEDALS LOOK LIKE REPOPS
TAIL/BRAKE LIGHT LOOKS LIKE IT HAS BEEN WORKED ON.
ALL SAID IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO PUT A REALISTIC PRICE ON THE BACK WITHOUT 
CLOSER INSPECTION.  MOST LIKELY WOULD BE A RIDER RATHER THAN A SHOW BIKE.
THIS WOULD BE IN THE PRICE RANGE OF $500 TO $600.  

WES


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## the tinker (Jul 11, 2020)

850 bucks for that bike and no more. and that includes his girlfriend.


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## old hotrod (Jul 11, 2020)

Wes, did they make repop fenders with only 1 hole?

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## dtaylor613 (Jul 11, 2020)

WES PINCHOT said:


> I TEND TO AGREE WITH FREGMAN AND HOTROD.
> THE FENDERS LOOK LIKE OLDER REPOPS THAT DID NOT HAVE AN EXTRA REFLECTOR HOLE.
> THE TANK ALSO REPOP
> THE LOCK LOOKS OUT OF ORDER AND NEEDS REPAIR AND KEY.
> ...





Wow, really? That low? Haven't seen any in that price point that aren't in really bad shape.

I was told it does come with the key and is original other than re-chroming (as far as he knew). With that being said, they might have bought it from someone 20 years ago and not have known any different themselves(?) Looking it over the only thing that stood out to me as being non original was the seat and petals. You are way more qualified than me though, so thank you for the feedback!!


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## old hotrod (Jul 11, 2020)

Value depends on location and model...being a black phantom, parts are always suspect and that can hurt value. In areas where bikes are popular, value goes up. Since the bike is out of your area, has to be shipped, and may have some repop parts, price is affected...at least on your end, seller might feel different 


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## Freqman1 (Jul 11, 2020)

I'm almost certain the bike is a repaint. Personally I'd hold out for something more original to include paint. There are plenty of original Black Phantoms out there and a little patience should get you a decent bike at a decent price. It might not be as "shiny" though. V/r Shawn


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## old hotrod (Jul 11, 2020)

@DonChristie

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## Goldenrod (Jul 11, 2020)

It is a bike that I would get sweaty between the sheets with at a swap meet but I would never marry it.


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## bobcycles (Jul 11, 2020)

I can see reproduction fenders, but overall decent quality restoration paint job with some nicks and chips...
Tail light also looks original which is rare to see on the myriad of quicky phantom restorations out there
where repop off the shelf is an easy go to grab.

Not a bad looking bike, but repop fenders always kill it for me on those bikes and opens up the 
worm can..."what else is repro on the bike"

Still not a bad bike...even 1000 probably not out of line...


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## WES PINCHOT (Jul 11, 2020)

old hotrod said:


> Wes, did they make repop fenders with only 1 hole?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk



YES
THEY HAVE BEEN MAKING REPRO PHANTOM FENDERS FOR 30 YEARS.  A FELLOW IN
CALIFORNIA WAS HAVING THEM MADE LONG BEFORE THE SCHWINN CENTENNIAL BIKE.


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## Jeff54 (Jul 12, 2020)

Yeah, that paint is more than suspicious. The chain guard pin stripes where angled into tips should be pointed. This small angle is done with pointed brush  by laying it against the guard so the tip is sharp, pointed. It doesn't look as if this is the case here moreover,  no scratching too: repainted. . .. Now, given the condition of the front fender, presuming it's original, for all the scratches, the whole bike should be scratched equally it's not. . Of the poor things in a whole paint job is how easy it chips. Those chips on frame are because it's not original. When it comes to original and paint jobs, you don't need an actual black phantom frame as, all the other bikes Schwinn made with this frame can be different models too. I.E. U never know what it was before it got new lipstick.

The top bar; red and white pin striped; that pin stripe should be centered in bar and it's not. It should be half covered right where tank sits, centered so half red and stripe is exposed just a tad above the tank, straight as an arrow. . It's too high. U might find very, very tiny misalignment in centering the pin stripe on top bar: Human error and typical expectations on factory production line but, not miles away. Besides, Schwinn nailed their pin strips so well, if it was off, in the least, 99.9% would never see it.  Of the most consistent ways to tell a new paint job is the points on Guard, pin stripes on frame; smooth without shaking or wiggles and has consistent thickness or width and chips in new  paint. .. There are lots of, 'professional, restore guys yet,  I've only seen 1 person ever nail it. For me, this stands out like big red, swelling, sour thumb. Rear fender is a repop,  peddles appear repop too.  rack is repop or fresh paint and the rear light,,  is, that is; red plastic lens,  is right.

Prob as, IDK,, Cause I would not pay as much but , guess, $500 tops just cause people usually don't see how wrong it is. Yet now, B/C you'll always know where top bar pin stripe should be,, every time U look at it,, U gonna go "eurgh, dam it". [Grin]

Investment value? If ya paid 500 bucks and tried to sell it later without lying about the paint job, ya ain't gonna make a dime years later but be happy if ya can get your 'Investment' back. I.E.  Zero 'Investible interest 'except for the rear light or values of what few actual original parts, not repainted,  on it. .

No trust seller or sale.


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## WES PINCHOT (Jul 12, 2020)

3000TH MESSAGE!  TA! DA!
BEAUTY AND VALUE IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER!


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## dtaylor613 (Jul 12, 2020)

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I didn’t end up getting it...

With that being said, if anyone knows of someone selling one, let me know! I am North Carolina and will be continuing to look


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## GTs58 (Jul 12, 2020)

Since you're not going after that one now, can you mention what the asking price was?


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## dtaylor613 (Jul 12, 2020)

GTs58 said:


> Since you're not going after that one now, can you mention what the asking price was?




We were discussing a price of $1,300. Not sure that I would’ve considered paying so much if I knew there were so many signs of modifications and rework though.


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## dtaylor613 (Jul 12, 2020)

I did ride away with this guy on my trip though (separate seller)...

It is an old Rollfast presumably from the 40’s. Not sure how original it is, or if it is very, but I did not pay very much and really like the bike. To me, it’s an entry bike to ride and enjoy with the girlfriend. I will still be looking for my Phantom the side


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## 1817cent (Jul 16, 2020)

Looks like a decent bike.  Have fun with it!


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