# Columbia Falcon/Blackhawk



## Balloontyre

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Elgin-Colum...810?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d10f9a472


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## Gary Mc

OH MY!!!!!!!!!!!  Now I'm in love with a bike.  Darn it!!!!! One of 4 ballooners this pre-33 guy would love to have.......


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## Freqman1

Gary Mc said:


> OH MY!!!!!!!!!!!  Now I'm in love with a bike.  Darn it!!!!! One of 4 ballooners this pre-33 guy would love to have.......




So what are the other three Gary? I would like to have a complete Falcon with the Wildcat siren preferably original. V/r Shawn


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## Gary Mc

Freqman1 said:


> So what are the other three Gary? I would like to have a complete Falcon with the Wildcat siren preferably original. V/r Shawn




Shawn, All Westfield built:

1938 Columbia Twinbar Airider Equipped Model C3
1942 Columbia Military WWII
1938 Elgin Robin
Maybe one day, timings not right for this one unfortunately.


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## bike

*anyone wanna lay bets*

that this will not run the full course  with a high bidder- that sticks??


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## bikewhorder

Gary Mc said:


> Shawn, All Westfield built:
> 
> 1938 Columbia Twinbar Airider Equipped Model C3
> 1942 Columbia Military WWII
> 1938 Elgin Robin
> Maybe one day, timings not right for this one unfortunately.




A '38 Robin? Do you actually prefer the taller framed Robins?


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## scrubbinrims

bike said:


> that this will not run the full course  with a high bidder- that sticks??




I am gonna need better odds than a straight bet on this one.
Chris


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## Gary Mc

bike said:


> that this will not run the full course  with a high bidder- that sticks??




A CABE member is the seller. Agree it stinks, would at least like to see how much one goes for online.


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## Gary Mc

bikewhorder said:


> A '38 Robin? Do you actually prefer the taller framed Robins?




Yep, actually like the look better.


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## dfa242

bikewhorder said:


> ...can anyone confirm that this is a model that Columbia produced with the Columbia name on it like that?




I was wondering the same thing - haven't seen this one before.


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## Gary Mc

bikewhorder said:


> Nice bike though, can anyone confirm that this is a model that Columbia produced with the Columbia name on it like that?




Yep, it is & you haven't seen one due to the rarity.  I only know of 1 complete bike, sure there are others but you never see them.  Think they were produced 1934-1936 but don't have a 35' or 36' catalog.  

Here's the 1934 Columbia TwinBar Airider page from the 1934 Columbia Bicycles catalog.


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## dfa242

That's cool Gary - thanks again for sharing the goods.


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## Freqman1

Gary Mc said:


> Yep, actually like the look better.




I purposely bought a '38 because of the frame. I only weigh about a buck 70 but didn't want to chance breaking a seat tube on the earlier bikes. I ride my bikes and sometimes hard! V/r Shawn


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## Gary Mc

bikewhorder said:


> Cool thanks Gary,  have you considered charging money for the service you provide here?




No problem & no on charging money, just out to help educate others & insure accurate information and good interesting info gets out.  Wish we could get more people to post their catalogs and info, I see it as helping all of us.  There are a few people who post a lot of info, it seems others just want to hoard it and keep it to themselves.  I have a lot I haven't yet shared due to time constraints but I'll get it all posted eventually.  I'm in the camp of share it to help the hobby.  For me this is purely a hobby to enjoy to get away from my real job which funds my hobby, if I charged then it would become too much like work.


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## Gary Mc

Freqman1 said:


> I purposely bought a '38 because of the frame. I only weigh about a buck 70 but didn't want to chance breaking a seat tube on the earlier bikes. I ride my bikes and sometimes hard! V/r Shawn




Shawn, weight is part of my concern with the 36'-37's as well.  I only want rideable bikes and at 250, I'd probably snap the seat tube on one of those.  I do like the look better as well though.


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## dfa242

Gary Mc said:


> No problem & no on charging money, just out to help educate others & insure accurate information and good interesting info gets out.  Wish we could get more people to post their catalogs and info, I see it as helping all of us.  There are a few people who post a lot of info, it seems others just want to hoard it and keep it to themselves.  I have a lot I haven't yet shared due to time constraints but I'll get it all posted eventually.  I'm in the camp of share it to help the hobby.  For me this is purely a hobby to enjoy to get away from my real job which funds my hobby, if I charged then it would become too much like work.




_*What he said!!*_


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## Bicycle Belle

Ah yes THAT seller. The same one who states in his auctions to PLEASE call or email with any questions and then when you do he completely ignores you. He had a Shelby(girls) for sale awhile back with no clear pictures and I was very interested in bidding on it but wanted more pictures before dropping a ton of money on it. 
All of a sudden now he's not a bike expert? Funny but when I did a little digging about him it seemed he thought himself to be quite the opposite.
Long story short, I never got a single response to my multiple emails here, on ebay and his personal email he used to post and wound up not bidding on the Shelby. Nor did I get a response to the voicemail I left on his phone. Not sure why sellers write in their description that they encourage questions only to ignore any and all questions. Perhaps to make themselves appear more legitimate?


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## Balloontyre

*In 1935*

Shapleigh Hardware had their own version of this bicycle as well.


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## RMS37

This bike _is_ the Columbia version of Westfield’s Airider range. That means it has the forged rear toe plates, a step above the stamped units used on all the other versions Westfield produced.  It can easily be dated by the serial number but that is not provided in the photos or sales text. 

  The Rugby version (and some other off branded versions) of the Airider is built on a different, lesser version of frame and is not a Twinbar frame, having only a single top tube.

  If I were a betting man I would put my money on finding this bike, post auction, in Catfish’s living room.


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## bikewhorder

It seems very foolish on his part not to take the bike back, I think the most F'ed up part about this is how Paypal reneged on its guarantee's.  What was their explanation for that BS?  Its too bad it was outside of Ebay. People bash Ebay for its high fees but I had an occasion to use their Buyer Protection once and I was pretty amazed at how painless it was to get a full refund.


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## Balloontyre

RMS37 said:


> The Rugby version (and some other off branded versions) of the Airider is built on a different, lesser version of frame and is not a Twinbar frame, having only a single top tube.



Hi
It looks like the catalog cut I posted shows the top bar in the fore-ground of the seat tube as it passes it lead me to believe a twin bar frame. Is it possible that 2 versions ran simultaneously, or the catalog is just using some file photo with Rugby graphics added? I'm aware that catalog images and actual production were often times different. I remember several years ago you posted a bike picture on a snowy day of a Rugby similar to the catalog pic, was that a single bar bicycle? This is very interesting stuff.
Thank you


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## Gary Mc

*1934 Columbia TwinBar Airider page from the 1934 Columbia Bicycles catalog*

Here's the other page out of the 1934 Columbia Bicycles catalog that shows all the features of this bicycle.






Here are the drop forged rear frame end plates RMS37 referenced from the 1934 catalog that were exclusive to Columbia Branded bicycles only.  This separates it from other Westfield branded versions of what looks like the same bike.





1/2" pitch sprocket of cold rolled still from 1934 Columbia Bicycles catalog, only on 1934 Columbia branded bikes different than other Westfield branded versions of what looks like the same bike.  Also note this is 1/2" pitch, other Westfield versions are all skip tooth sprockets.  





Here's the first catalog page again so all will be in one post.





Other differentiators of a Columbia from other Westfield models include:


Columbia front hub
Columbia Chrome Plated Pedals

*Columbia insured their bikes were better, heavier duty versions than other Westfield branded or Westfield wholesaled similar make bikes.  Many of the same components were used and they look similar but Columbia had subtle differences that differentiated them as the superior bike.*











RMS37 said:


> The Rugby version (and some other off branded versions) of the Airider is built on a different, lesser version of frame and is not a Twinbar frame, having only a single top tube.




Phil, I thought all of these Westfield made bikes of this genre were Twin Bars: Columbia, Elgin, and Rugby from all the photos I have from my photo archives all appear to Twin Bars.  Would love to see a pic of a single top tube model.  Thanks.  Gary


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## RMS37

Balloontyre said:


> Hi
> It looks like the catalog cut I posted shows the top bar in the fore-ground of the seat tube as it passes it lead me to believe a twin bar frame.




  It is certainly possible that Shapleigh did at some point sell a Twinbar framed version of their Streamline model but the catalog illustration you posted is of the single top tube variant. That catalog, though, only illustrates a “onebar” version of the bike.

  I do see what you are inferring as twin tubes at the seat juncture in that illustration but that is actually an oversized piece of tubing that the seat tube passes through. The single top tube version is built with a lug like seat tube joint comprised of an oversized tube that encases the top tube ahead of the seat tube; it is drilled for the seat tube to pass through it, and then tapers and flattens to intersect with a looped seat stay tube in a wishbone fashion.

  It is interesting that Westfield went to the trouble of designing and producing a second version of the Airider frame (a third version was produced as a truss-arch version of this frame.) Tooling a separate design hardly seems that it would amortize the investment made in creating it and would actually result in lower profit per unit. One reason for the design may be that the full length tapered twin top tubes of the standard Airider had to be expensive to draw and the siamese joint at the head proved to be a structural weak point in the standard design. The single top tube bike appears to be a robust answer to those issues but ultimately it did not sell in anywhere near the numbers the Twinbar did.



Gary Mc said:


> _*Columbia*__* insured their bikes were better, heavier duty versions than other *__*Westfield*__* branded or *__*Westfield*__* wholesaled similar make bikes. Many of the same components were used and they look similar but *__*Columbia*__* had subtle differences that differentiated them as the superior bike.*_
> 
> Phil, I thought all of these Westfield made bikes of this genre were Twin Bars: Columbia, Elgin, and Rugby from all the photos I have from my photo archives all appear to Twin Bars. Would love to see a pic of a single top tube model. Thanks. Gary




  While the “Columbia” grade models were separated from the lesser versions by many equipment details, I believe the only change in the frame construction was the inclusion of the forged rear dropouts.

  Separating the Columbia Airider frames from the stamped dropout versions like the Blackhawks and Falcons provides two frame variants; adding the single top tube version and the arch truss versions provide two more versions of the basic Westfield streamline design providing a total of four distinct versions I am aware of. 

  After a painful incident where I allowed an individual visiting my home to photograph one of my bicycles only to run across it being used without permission (and I might add entirely incorrectly) to sell some of his crap on eBay, I decided not to post photographs of my bicycles on the internet anymore. Like celebrity sex tapes, once something reaches the internet, you loose possession and all that is left is to grimace when someone re-posts it and attaches their meaning to it. If you are looking for photographs of my single top tube Rugby, they can be found on the internet as I actually posted them and allowed their use in a calendar in my more carefree days.


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## rustjunkie

P: your pm box is full


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## bikewhorder

*You weren't kidding!*

http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/news/fallupdate2012b/earlyendingauctions.html :eek:


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## bricycle

rustyspoke66 said:


> I usually offer to the cabe and Ebay at the same time. I guess I will have to do one or the other.




...don't listen to me. Most folks don't anywho...


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## dfa242

bricycle said:


> ...don't listen to me. Most folks don't anywho...




Maybe people would take you more seriously if you removed that oversized hat...


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