# Would you or wouldn't you ....Excelsior?



## jd56 (Oct 22, 2013)

I just drove an hour to see this beautifully paint condition standard Excelsior badged schwinn.
7/52 is the serial date.

Amazing condition with the paint. Some wear on the rear fender and the rims are far too pitted to restore. Broken spoke on the front. OG Goodyear tires. Amazing condition!!.
The seat is a  stamped "deluxe messenger" that all the edges have wear. When I flipped the bike over to check the serial the leather and pad came off as a unit. Off the pan.

Would you have passed at $350????.
I just couldn't see it...but what the hell do I know.
Help me justify me walking away or let me know I passed on a money maker.
I know I passed on a nice condition one but just tell me thoughts.

Am I an idiot?




















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## videoranger (Oct 22, 2013)

$350 is a good price for this one. Braced truss fork, dogleg skiptooth, good OG paint, AS pedals, nice Excelsior badge, etc. It adds up. Even crusty looking rims and other chrome can come back pretty good once it's cleaned of rust crust (blooming past the pits) and it's down to chrome, small pits and some worm spots. Even on a budget as good as this is hard to find.


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## jd56 (Oct 22, 2013)

Is there any thing left on the bone with this one?
It does look good as it sits.
I'm feeling a little sick right now.....arrrr

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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Oct 22, 2013)

jd56 said:


> Is there any thing left on the bone with this one?
> It does look good as it sits.
> I'm feeling a little sick right now.....arrrr
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2




And the,fact its a rare postwar fat bar ba97 frame... Go buy it and ill buy it from ya!


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## dougfisk (Oct 22, 2013)

jd56 said:


> Is there any thing left on the bone with this one?
> It does look good as it sits.
> I'm feeling a little sick right now.....arrrr
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2




JD, you acted rationally by walking away.  You are reacting emotionally now by regretting it....  the classic left brain / right brain sort of conflict.

If you are a collector who always wanted one exactly like this, then it is a sound buy.  If you are a flipper horsetrader, then it was not worth the trouble on a monetary basis.  You could do just as well financially by taking a second job at Circle K.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Oct 22, 2013)

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> And the,fact its a rare postwar fat bar ba97 frame... Go buy it and ill buy it from ya!




Not 52.. More like 47...


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Oct 22, 2013)

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> Not 52.. More like 47...




Also pre war sliding rail saddle... Run back dude


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## jd56 (Oct 22, 2013)

Thanks for the responses. Still a nice condition rider for me. The flipper value is always that one side of the brain talking. Then ther is the not so powerful side of the brain that is non risk taker.
Don't have time for another job Doug. Too busy with the bikes but, I don't make much money doing it. 

Oh Wanna if I decide to not go back for myself I pm you for your interest.
Now I'm confused on the serial number year because the c686** was noted under 1952. Is it the 47 solely because of the slider adjustment bracket on the seat?
These early numbers always confuse me but then again the ABC Services date book only goes back to 1948.

I'm still toying with the idea that I should go back. He said the $300 I negotiated from $400nto, was too low. He recanted with $350...I walked.....damn it was nice looking schwinn.

Another question what is the year ranges and model options on the Excelsior badge?
not much info on it that I can find.





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## vincev (Oct 22, 2013)

Would have definitely bought.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Oct 22, 2013)

jd56 said:


> Thanks for the responses. Still a nice condition rider for me. The flipper value is always that one side of the brain talking. Then ther is the not so powerful side of the brain that is non risk taker.
> Don't have time for another job Doug. Too busy with the bikes but, I don't make much money doing it.
> 
> Oh Wanna if I decide to not go back for myself I pm you for your interest.
> ...



Early post war and 52 for some reason match. Maybe old bikes found in 52 and re listed in serial sequence.. Who knows.. Notice most numbers in 52 have 6 numbers and these five number guys just show up...


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## Gary Mc (Oct 22, 2013)

JD, at $350 hate to say it, but, I would have paid that in a heartbeat.


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## jd56 (Oct 22, 2013)

Heading back to it tonight. Another 1/2 tank but I just like the condition on this one.

Still would like to know the story behind the Excelsior.
I have read there was base models to deluxes but why Excelsior.
Were they only available in certain regions?
Or certain badged retailers?

School me please.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Oct 22, 2013)

jd56 said:


> Heading back to it tonight. Another 1/2 tank but I just like the condition on this one.
> 
> Still would like to know the story behind the Excelsior.
> I have read there was base models to deluxes but why Excelsior.
> ...




Schwinn,bought out excelsior motorcycles back in the day and continued to use the name along with autocycle


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## jpromo (Oct 22, 2013)

Yeah, this is definitely '47ish. The frame/fork point to this as well as the drop center wheels which suggest a pre-'48 (first year of S2) build. Then the 5 digit serial. Good luck! This is a nice bike.


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## Rivnut (Oct 22, 2013)

According to everything I've read about them and including the two I have, a '52 and later would have the serial number on the left rear drop out; '51 and earlier have the serial number on the bottom of the bottom bracket.

Ed


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## jd56 (Oct 22, 2013)

Rivnut said:


> According to everything I've read about them and including the two I have, a '52 and later would have the serial number on the left rear drop out; '51 and earlier have the serial number on the bottom of the bottom bracket.
> 
> Ed




That's good to know


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## jd56 (Oct 22, 2013)

jpromo said:


> Yeah, this is definitely '47ish. The frame/fork point to this as well as the drop center wheels which suggest a pre-'48 (first year of S2) build. Then the 5 digit serial. Good luck! This is a nice bike.




Thanks jason


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## jd56 (Oct 22, 2013)

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> Schwinn,bought out excelsior motorcycles back in the day and continued to use the name along with autocycle




Interesting, so this Schwinn Excelsior badge appeals to the Motorcycle clan as well, well Excelsior motorcyclce collectors anyway. 
Very interesting, wonder why Schwinn would by a motorcycle company out? 
I understand the Whizzer and the Simplex angle, were Excelsior motorcycles like these Schwinn models? rather than full blown Motorcycles...I'm not into motorcycles....yet


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## jd56 (Oct 22, 2013)

*excelsior thread*

Not to be like Dvae and Vince....who have calmed down lately I've noticed....love you guys, just saying....There should be a thread on just Excelsior badged bikes and whatever is associated with them. History and lessons is what we're here for.
I looked feverously in Geoff's "Heavyweight Schwinn (1946-1964) Reference Book" and couldn't find anything other than the mention of the prewar badge.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Oct 22, 2013)

jd56 said:


> Not to be like Dvae and Vince....who have calmed down lately I've noticed....love you guys, just saying....There should be a thread on just Excelsior badged bikes and whatever is associated with them. History and lessons is what we're here for.
> I looked feverously in Geoff's "Heavyweight Schwinn (1946-1964) Reference Book" and couldn't find anything other than the mention of the prewar badge.




Wikipedia Schwinn. I think it mentions this transaction between excelsior and Schwinn.. Sometime in the 20? I think..


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## decotriumph (Oct 22, 2013)

jd56 said:


> Interesting, so this Schwinn Excelsior badge appeals to the Motorcycle clan as well, well Excelsior motorcyclce collectors anyway.
> Very interesting, wonder why Schwinn would by a motorcycle company out?
> I understand the Whizzer and the Simplex angle, were Excelsior motorcycles like these Schwinn models? rather than full blown Motorcycles...I'm not into motorcycles....yet




Schwinn bought both the Excelsior and Henderson motorcycle companies and also used those names on some bicycles. In 1931, they abruptly quit building motorcycles and concentrated on bicycles but they retained the rights to use the names for bicycles. Excelsior motorcycles were on a par with Indian and Harley-Davidson and they were the "Big 3" of motorcycles in the first 30 years of the 20th century. Excelsiors were v-twins and won many races, including hillclimbs. Hendersons were inline 4-cylinder motorcycles and their engine design was the forerunner of the Ace and Indian 4-cylinders. Hendersons held several endurance and cross-country records. They were also popular with police departments.


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## spoker (Oct 22, 2013)

dougfish is right on i have a couple old bikes,thats enough old ones for me rhe rest are prettynew,i enjoy an old bike but im donebwith the restoration and imkeadiatly going upside down on value


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Oct 22, 2013)

spoker said:


> dougfish is right on i have a couple old bikes,thats enough old ones for me rhe rest are prettynew,i enjoy an old bike but im donebwith the restoration and imkeadiatly going upside down on value




Why would you restore this?.. Its a BA97 with really good paint!... Its complete too. The,frame alone is worth 180 bux on a good day. This isn't your typical,straight,bar. This is a FAT BAR ... Ie postwar,autocycle in great shape.. Id,be all over this...if you wanted to build a postwar AC you would need this,frame!.  A panther hornet frame is incorrect to build one of these...


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## kos22us (Oct 22, 2013)




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## jd56 (Oct 22, 2013)

*Well....I did it again*

I Have to sleep in the shop again tonight......just kidding.
But, I have been cutoff on all funds, well....until I can sell some bikes and stuff.

So against some better judgements and then with some ideas that this wouldn't be a bad deal, I went back to get the bike.

Here is what happened. I called the guy saying I was heading back, he said OK. Before I made this decision and weighing the options....really? I had options. I was notified by a member that this exact bike was on ebay, for $450 as a starting bid. So not wanting lose out on the great condition and watching it get sold on ebay, or even yet get a bid at all, (it hadn't yet), I knew I need to get there before that bidding started.

When I got there and was peeling the 50's from my pocket, he mentions that he just found out his internet nephew had called after I left the first time, to say he posted it on ebay. Needless to say he was informed there were a number of watchers. No bidders but watchers. He said that that just meant they were getting ready to bid and the price could go out of sight.
Yes the asking price was raised while I was gone and that the offered $350 final sale was null and void. It was now back to $400. 
I bought the bike for more than the $350 but haggled the new price down a bit. 

I'm still stoked and pleased and probably won't get my investment back but, who knows. When I ever decide to let it go.
Looking forward to the minor cleanup as I think that's all that is really needed. Besides the rims and or a new spoke. 2 dents in the rear fender and a kick stand that seems to now be acting up (over extends).

Thanks for all the feedback everyone, including your honesty dougfish.
And the history lesson on the Excelsior.





Seat needs repair but nothing some tacky spray won't fix.









OH yeah, the Goodyear tires had this single "S" on the sidewall....any ideas what this means?


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## dougfisk (Oct 22, 2013)

jd56 said:


> ....OH yeah, the Goodyear tires had this single "S" on the sidewall....any ideas what this means?




They used to grind the name / letters off of some tires identified as "seconds".... Could this be whats left of "Speedway"?   ...Does the Goodyear lettering remain?

Does it get cold at night in the shed this time of year???


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## jd56 (Oct 22, 2013)

Not that cold yet and it's a shop dagnabbit....lol 
Actually we're supposed to hit mid 30's tomorrow night. Our first frost for the season. 65 today.

That would suck if they were seconds, as they appear to be in great shape.
And it does have GOODYEAR in block lettering.


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## greenephantom (Oct 25, 2013)

In my mind the Excelsior badged bikes tend to fall under the "hardware store" bikes, different badges but largely the same model configuration. But this bike that you just picked up is somewhat unusually configured. With the spears style paint scheme, and the straightbar (as opposed to DX) frame one would expect a non-skiptooth drivetrain and a different fender treatment, at least for this time period. But this bike has the skiptooth drivetrain (which would have been a DX thing) and the fender tips also have the DX treatment (this style of wide white tips with straight lines is commonly seen on the 24"ers). The straightbar frame and the chrome rims are Autocycle caliber, and the drivetrain and fender treatment aren't. And I would bet money it left the factory that way. All sorts of new weird stuff I get to learn every day. Neat bike, and well worth the sub-$400.
Cheers, Geoff


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## DonChristie (Oct 25, 2013)

300 would of been better, but 400 you still done well! Chalk it up to a lesson to buy it when it is first in front of you! Glue the seat leather back on, clean it up and ride it like you stole it! Nice ride! Ride on!


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## jd56 (Dec 17, 2013)

I didn't want to ruin the Troxel leather that was originally on the seat pan for this bike by gluing it back in place. And with the frayed edges as this is a double pan, the wear would only get worse.
So...I had the pan re-leathered and just got it back. A beautiful dye job and the price was  better than reasonable. Thanks for the great work. He wants to stay anonymous...or he can chime in if he doesn't. It's a hobby for him not a business. 
But he did an awesome job. All it needs now is a "Troxel" stamping.
He did another lighter double pan for the wife's Columbia 5 Star Superb.


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