# Rattlecan paint job issues



## jd56

OK, so I'm having some issues with the rattlecanned paint job I'm attempting.

After etch primer was applied and dried and sanded the minimal runs and reprimed (I have wiped with paint thinner and wiped dry to clean before coats), I applied the paint. Immediately it was apparent the primer started cracking / wrinkling effect, as though the paint reacted to the etch primer.
What am I doing wrong?
The pics above show the frame after primed, painted (one coat), and a quick application of clear. I thought maybe if I appled the clear I would be able to sand / buff and a miracle would take place. I know better. I shouldn't have applied the clear yet. 
The wrinkling was slightly there before I applied a coat of paint.
Just to point out, all the canns applied were bought from a auto paint supply and were to be compatable with each other.

here what I'm using






At this point I will need to start over from the beginning, strip back to bare metal again. Bummer!!

I'm determined to do this repaint with spraypaint and could really use some help here.

Maybe the frame was not prepped correctly and when the paint adhered to the primer ....hell, I'm lost at this point.


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## KurseD

I'm at a loss as well. Normally you see this when using paints and clears that are not compatible. ie: enamels vs urethanes and etc. my only other guess would be curing time. I have seen this happen when you don't let the paint harden fully before applying a top coat (or paint too soon over primer). Basically what may be happening is the bottom layer of paint is curing at a different rate than the top layer. As it is curing it is shrinking or hardening and causing the top layer to wrinkle. Another tip totally unrelated, but I've done quite a few paint jobs and never use thinner as a prepping/cleaning wipe. I always buy a can of paint supply brand. glass cleaner and use that as my cleaning wipe. Windex or other glass cleaners work fine to so long as you don't use the perfumed styles. I guess it may be the alchohol in them, but they work great for me. Try letting each coat cure for a day or even two before applying the next type of paint or clear. Hope this helps.


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## jimsbeercans

OK, I will through this out there. I'm no paint expert so really forgive this if it comes across as not knowing or stupid.

Could all of that be effected by the evoprust not being cleaned real good??

timing issues??

Follow up with this. I will happen to us on something..bike, grill, bird house etc....


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## jd56

I kept getting a few runs or build up from the etching primer and just kept resanding smooth, reclean the reapply the etching primer. There musty be 3 coats in some areas. Because when I sanded the runs etc out it took me to bare metal in a few areas...using 1000 sandpaper. These last touchup coats seem to adhere in the area that had gone to metal.
I'm thinking I didn't prep it thuroughly and the primer didn't adhere. 
As I mentioned earlier I did apply a coat of flat black paint and waited a few hours and then applied a light coat of clear, with no sanding between applications. 
I have sanded it this morning and it makes no sense to me but, the primer crackling / wrinkling seems to have gone away. I may have it so scuffed up I just cant see the defects.
But, I still think that I was too soon on the paint and clear.

I'm going to resand to the primer and metal as I think it will go to that when sanding. And start over.

Out of the etching primer so I might ry just primer and see what happens.

Thanks for the feedback.....windex, I'll try that as well, instead of the thinner.


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## jd56

jimsbeercans said:


> OK, I will through this out there. I'm no paint expert so really forgive this if it comes across as not knowing or stupid.
> 
> Could all of that be effected by the evoprust not being cleaned real good??
> 
> timing issues??
> 
> Follow up with this. I will happen to us on something..bike, grill, bird house etc....




Good point Jim but, never used the evapo-rust. I didn't mean to have that in the picture.

Again the primer seemed to take well to the frame, just the resanded and reapplied areas were affected. I must admit the etching primer didn't take much samding with 1000 grit to get to metal again. 
Got me, Clean it well again next time.


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## ohdeebee

First of all, using anything from a can is never the best route to take. There simply isn't enough solids in the paint to allow you to work with it as far as sanding and buffing. The runs are caused by spraying too much at one time. Its better to do 3 or 4 thin coats (don't worry about coverage) than to do 2 heavy coats. If I have to use spraycan primer I would do 5 maybe 6 thin coats just to build it up, then sand it before spraying the color. Again, using primer from a gun will be considerably easier to build up as well as work down smooth. The first coats of color should also be applied very thin in order to build up the paint. I would probably do 5 thin coats of color and don't worry about coverage for the first two coats, just spray it evenly. I try not to use clear coat just because it isn't the correct finish for the bikes I paint for myself. If I do use clear for a client I try to apply it in one thin, even coat (again this is working with a gun, not a can). Also for color sanding, even 1000 grit may be too rough for spray paint, try 1500 at least and maybe as high as 2500 for the clear coat. I've never used clear from a can so I can't say for sure on that. Also, this isn't something that can be learned overnight. I've been painting now for almost 12 years and things still go wrong, and you still have to redo things occasionally, but you keep learning and getting better at it.

Here is a paint job with straight color, no clear, no wet sanding, no buffing:




Here is a paint job with clear, but still no sanding or buffing:


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## Dave K

How long did you let the primer dry?  The paint might have reactivated the primer making it expand and contract causing the cracks.  Also might have had something to do with the thinners escaping from the not all the way dry primmer.


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## jd56

Thanks everybody.
ODB, No compressor so rattlecan is the method at hand. I'm determined to get this done this way. However, after all the extra work on my first repaint, I could have paid someone to paint it with proper methods and still it would have been cheaper and less aggravating. But this is part of the ojt of resto work.
I'm on a mission and will not let this bring me down.
Thin coats and many of them....got it.  I decided to use a thin layer of semi gloss clear as I was using flat black. I wanted a little shine but not too much.

Dave, I maybe just too impatient and rushing things. The first coverage of the etch was a one day drying time. Then resanded and removed too much of the etch. Then reapply and only let it dry a few hours before I applied the paint.
I know, don't rush the process,  and I should know better than to think I can produce perfection using a rattlecan, in a hurry. 
But, I'm bound to get er dun!!!!!


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## KurseD

That's exactly what I was getting at earlier. Need to wait longer between layers of different paints and primers.


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## bikecrazy

Never use thinner as a cleaner. It will soften the primer and cause it to lift. Spray can paint can be prone to crazing and lifting so extra care must be taken during paint prep. Use a water based cleaner if needed but make sure it does not leave a film. Once you start putting on the color coat, remember that you only have an hour to get all your coats on. If you take too much time lifting will occur. Read the directions on the can. Good luck Done correctly great results can be achieved.


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## SJ_BIKER

*i made a mistake of using rubbing alcohol to clean the metal prior to painting....*

It is really a lost art...using rattle can paint is cool for smaller jobs.  Its a science that someone out has ANd i hope an expert can speak on this further.  Not all of novice aspiring painters have the expensive equipment needed to do the job right.  I have noticed that rubbing alcohol wrinkled paint even though a primer was used...when i rattle can spray painted enamel from the hardware store some years ago.  Bad wrinkles on old bikes are a big downer.  metal prep is really important.  Im wonderring what the old bike companies had up their sleeves to keep the metal in their shop clean.....any ideas?


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## halfatruck

I've had this same problem...it always has been the amount of time allowed for drying. It also makes a big difference in what color you're using, reds are the best (for not wrinkling/pulling) black is the worst blue sort of in the middle - it's due to how the paint is manufactured.


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## jd56

halfatruck said:


> I've had this same problem...it always has been the amount of time allowed for drying. It also makes a big difference in what color you're using, reds are the best (for not wrinkling/pulling) black is the worst blue sort of in the middle - it's due to how the paint is manufactured.




Well I'm doing it in red.
I think the concensus is patience, dry time, cleaning and patience.

Thanks for everybody's responses and those that PM'd me. 
It's my first paint restoration so stuff is supposed to go wrong....right. I'm sure I will be a novice at this for sometime.
Impatience is an issue as I wanted to have this done by the Eden show. We'll see.


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## SJ_BIKER

*This is a rattle can job...enamel in a can*

my old 1951 phantom bike started off as a red phantom but after the paint wrinkled then i started again a made it into a black phantom...it can be done...just be patient and take your time


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## BrentP

I read something on a forum, from a painter, who said that if you aren't heat curing you should wait a week before finish coating to prevent possible wrinkling.  Personally, I think the waiting is probably the hardest part.


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## redline1968

form my observation i looks like the paint had some type of reaciton with the primer. possibly it was not mixed thoughly in the can. also if you let the part sit for a extended period of time after painting the primer will not take paint and must be primed again.  clean the primer with at grease/wax remover before paint and let it dry before the first coat. test paint a surface before you paint the whole bike to be sure it will stick and do the job you want. you might have painted it a different temps and that would cause it to dry too fast and not stick is another possiblility but i feel that the prime is not compatible with the paint or it got contaminated with a cleaner that left a residue.


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## PhattCatBicycles

Looks like your drying and set time isn't long enough. Primer and paint need a few days to dry.  My set up is in a 5 x 8 inclosed trailer with a small heater in it.  Seems to get the trailer to about 100F to 110F and I still let it set 3, to 5 days before adding my paint to the primer or my gloss to the paint.  The number of coats you get from a spray can will always be more because sprayers lay the paint on thicker then a spray can so you need less coats to build up the paint when using a sprayer.  Here's a link that helpped me whan I first started painting my bikes.  Remember the more you do the better you'll get.  I used to get runs and other issure all the time but now I'll never get a run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MsVWj3fGkY&feature=related

Just enjoying the ride...

Brooks


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## jd56

Well I was letting the one bike black paint dry for a couple of days and had applied a red starter coat on another murray. Then off to my fathers funeral.
I was hoping to have all done cleared and reassembled before the end of the week for the Eden show but, it just can't be done.
I was hoping to get the flyer done as it was my first true resto.
Next time I guess.
The weather as been poor all day so there is another delay.

Youre probably right, I did allow enough dry time or the paint thinner I used, which I don't use anymore, reacted to the paint.

Thanks for all the responses guys.


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## Ozark Flyer

KurseD said:


> That's exactly what I was getting at earlier. Need to wait longer between layers of different paints and primers.




Been there, done that, and I think your spot on.  If I don't give enough dry time between coats the bottom coat is still wet and gassing out so top coat can't cling to it.  Instant crinkle coat.  Certainly not the only thing that can cause it but a common mistake that's easy to remedy.  I usually add 15 minutes or so beyond what's recommended on the can just to allow for variations in humidity and temperature from the dry times listed for ideal conditions.


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## ozzmonaut

If using etching primer, nothing can be underneath. The same chemicals that etch the metal will lift paint better than stripper. I found out the hard way. I have done a few using the same components you are. I put on the etching primer, a few thin coats, then a couple heavy ones. Don't hold the can too close, you will lose product but that is an inherent downfall. Then I wait til the next day, sand off any imperfections, making sure not to go through the etcing primer. You don't want exposed areas for that next primer or base to get under. Then I do a few thin coats of plain primer, wet sand VERY lightly. Then on goes my base, several thin coats. I can tell you that laquer, while more expensive, has a ton of benefits. You can use laquer over enamel, but not vice versa, so regular primer should be fine. Laquer also will run easily, but as long as one coat gets pretty tacky, you can recoat about any time. With laquer, I don't sand my final coat, I go over it with rubbing compound. Then I clear it, a lot. Then compound again. The bikes you saw of mine at the show that had actual paint jobs were spray can jobs.


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## silvercreek

The picture looks more like a primer/paint compatibility issue.


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