# Prewar Columbia



## Jay81 (Feb 10, 2018)

Just picked up this pretty nice prewar Columbia today. Drove about 82 miles each way in the snow. Probably should have waited but didn't want to risk waiting and missing it.
Pretty sure it's a 1941. I looked up the serial and bb code on mr columbia's site and think I have it figured out. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Serial is F129228 
BB code G10 = October 1940 (I think)
Morrow hub code J3 = 3rd quarter 1940

It's cold and snowing so I just took some quick pics in the garage. Plan is to maybe try and get the fenders cleaned up a bit, service it and find a couple missing parts.
Looks like I'll need a drop stand, left pedal and headlight. Looks to me like it may have had a silver ray? Not sure if it would have had the dashboard or not.


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## rusty.kirkpatrick (Feb 10, 2018)

Very cool bike, I love those squared off fenders.


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## catfish (Feb 10, 2018)

Nice!


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## jacob9795 (Feb 10, 2018)

Great find. I doubt your bike was ever equipped with a drop stand.


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## Jay81 (Feb 10, 2018)

jacob9795 said:


> Great find. I doubt your bike was ever equipped with a drop stand.




Really? I thought it would have, since it has the "ears" built into the frame and the holes to mount the drop stand. But if it's not supposed to have one, it'll save me around a Benjamin.


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## tryder (Feb 10, 2018)

Congratulations. Nice bike. Great color.  Looks mostly complete.  Just needs pedals and a light.


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## tryder (Feb 10, 2018)

I'm thinking its a '40 based on the chainguard.  A dashboard bike would have a chrome fork.


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## Freqman1 (Feb 10, 2018)

My flash kinda washed the pic out and this is a pic of a '41 model (floating hub). The horn light is gonna be tough. You might be able to find the rack badge from one of the F9T reproductions. Cool bike. V/r Shawn


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## Krakatoa (Feb 10, 2018)

tryder said:


> I'm thinking its a '40 based on the chainguard.  A dashboard bike would have a chrome fork.




I agree 1940. I interpret the serial F129288 to be the number of the frame produced in 1939, and G10 to be the date the bike was completed in October 1940.

Nice that it has a correspondong Morrow rear hub.

Cool bike good score!


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## cds2323 (Feb 10, 2018)

Freqman1 said:


> My flash kinda washed the pic out and this is a pic of a '41 model (floating hub). The horn light is gonna be tough. You might be able to find the rack badge from one of the F9T reproductions. Cool bike. V/r Shawn
> View attachment 752104




The E19T image is from the 1940 catalog. E would be 40 and F from 41. The F9T reproductions are of a 1941 bike.




Krakatoa said:


> I agree 1940. I interpret the serial F129288 to be the number of the frame produced in 1939, and G10 to be the date the bike was completed in October 1940.
> 
> Nice that it has a correspondong Morrow rear hub.
> 
> Cool bike good score!




The F129288 number would be 1941, a 1939 number would have a D letter prefix.

My suspicion is that the serial number on Jay81s bike actually starts  with 'E'. The middle picture of the serial number appears to show a faint line at the bottom of the E. 
The bike looks like a 40 with the ferrule on the front fender for the horn light conduit. And the chainguard is consistent with 40.

And Jay81, this a very cool Columbia in a nice color. Best of luck in finding the horn light, it would be nice to complete this bike. 
And  I'd guess this did not have the dashboard as the stem looks original and the dashboard required a different stem.


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## Freqman1 (Feb 11, 2018)

I'm kinda thinking that is an "F" (1941). Everything I've seen from that period the two character code is always one letter above. Westfield experts? @MrColumbia @catfish ? It would also be good if someone could clarify the model letter designations. In the pre war Columbia book it says the cat runs through 1941 and the last model designations are "E". I always thought that the "F9T" was only used for the reproduction bikes. Generally when I see a SW Floating hub it is a '41 model. V/r Shawn


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## tryder (Feb 11, 2018)

& Torrington signal p


Freqman1 said:


> I'm kinda thinking that is an "F" (1941). Everything I've seen from that period the two character code is always one letter above. Westfield experts? @MrColumbia @catfish ? It would also be good if someone could clarify the model letter designations. In the pre war Columbia book it says the cat runs through 1941 and the last model designations are "E". I always thought that the "F9T" was only used for the reproduction bikes. Generally when I see a SW Floating hub it is a '41 model. V/r Shawn




The Columbia book is a little tricky.  It says it runs 1936 through 1941 but the catalogs in my copy are only 1937 through 1940.  
The copy of the catalog page you provided is of a 1940 Columbia.  1941 Columbia bicycles had the solid ribbed chainguard and the trainlight.


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## cds2323 (Feb 11, 2018)

Freqman1 said:


> I'm kinda thinking that is an "F" (1941). Everything I've seen from that period the two character code is always one letter above. Westfield experts? @MrColumbia @catfish ? It would also be good if someone could clarify the model letter designations. In the pre war Columbia book it says the cat runs through 1941 and the last model designations are "E". I always thought that the "F9T" was only used for the reproduction bikes. Generally when I see a SW Floating hub it is a '41 model. V/r Shawn




The prewar Columbia book does run thru 1941. @tryder. At least my copy does, pages 126 to 140 are of a 1941 Columbia-Built catalog and show the model numbers starting with 'F'. On page 125 is the page 12  of the 1940 Columbia catalog which shows that the Stewart-Warner floating hub was available from Columbia in 1940.  I have a 1940 ad that shows a Westfield bike with the hub.

The two character code 'G10' also seems to fit 1940. There is a list compiled by CABE member Mercian that shows the correlation between those numbers and the serial number. The list shows that in 40  and 41 the two character code ran two letters ahead of  the serial number. An E letter serial number in the 120,000 range fits the G10 code, whereas an F letter serial number in that range would have an H code.

The F9T was  a real model from 1941, not just used for the reproductions.


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## Freqman1 (Feb 11, 2018)

cds2323 said:


> The prewar Columbia book does run thru 1941. @tryder. At least my copy does, pages 126 to 140 are of a 1941 Columbia-Built catalog and show the model numbers starting with 'F'. On page 125 is the page 12  of the 1940 Columbia catalog which shows that the Stewart-Warner floating hub was available from Columbia in 1940.  I have a 1940 ad that shows a Westfield bike with the hub.
> 
> The two character code 'G10' also seems to fit 1940. There is a list compiled by CABE member Mercian that shows the correlation between those numbers and the serial number. The list shows that in 40  and 41 the two character code ran two letters ahead of  the serial number. An E letter serial number in the 120,000 range fits the G10 code, whereas an F letter serial number in that range would have an H code.
> 
> The F9T was  a real model from 1941, not just used for the reproductions.



Thanks I have a new found interest in these models and am trying to make sense of it. The reason I'm selling my Seminole is that I'm upgrading to something pretty special. V/r Shawn


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## Jay81 (Feb 11, 2018)

I cleaned up the mystery letter at the beginning of the serial. It looks an F and an E depending on lighting, camera angle etc. 
Here's after cleaning it with and without the flash. With the flash it looks like an F and without looks like E. 
I'm thinking it is an E that is very weak at the bottom. 
I tried to clean it a little more after these pics and it went back to looking like F. 
All in all I think it is in fact an E serial, which along with the G10 code, confirms its a 1940.


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## tryder (Feb 11, 2018)

cds2323 said:


> The prewar Columbia book does run thru 1941. @tryder. At least my copy does, pages 126 to 140 are of a 1941 Columbia-Built catalog and show the model numbers starting with 'F'. On page 125 is the page 12  of the 1940 Columbia catalog which shows that the Stewart-Warner floating hub was available from Columbia in 1940.  I have a 1940 ad that shows a Westfield bike with the hub.
> 
> The two character code 'G10' also seems to fit 1940. There is a list compiled by CABE member Mercian that shows the correlation between those numbers and the serial number. The list shows that in 40  and 41 the two character code ran two letters ahead of  the serial number. An E letter serial number in the 120,000 range fits the G10 code, whereas an F letter serial number in that range would have an H code.
> 
> The F9T was  a real model from 1941, not just used for the reproductions.




My copy, which I picked up on sale late last year, does not have actual page numbers, nor does it include a 1941 catalog.   
This is the cover of the last catalog in my book:


 
I believe this is the cover of the 1940 Columbia catalog.
Notice the chain guard.  It is the "cheese grater" style and has a solid cream background like the bicycle that belongs to Jay81.   I believe that I have the same bicycle year and model that belongs to Jay81 (same paint scheme on chain guard, same creme box fenders with feral for shielded horn light cable) only less complete and in Carmine (Maroon).  Now I am going to have to take it out of its box, photograph it, and post it along with serial numbers.
Also, if you look at the earlier Columbia Catalogs, you will see that the years that used the "cheese grater" chain guard had different paint schemes, which leads me to believe that model year can be roughly identified by appearance if the the bicycle still sports original chain guard and fenders....but you never know...perhaps my bike is a '39 ..  the proof is in the pudding (serial number) as they say..I will try to post photos my bicycle later this evening.


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## tryder (Feb 11, 2018)

Freqman1 said:


> Thanks I have a new found interest in these models and am trying to make sense of it. The reason I'm selling my Seminole is that I'm upgrading to something pretty special. V/r Shawn



Wow.  Hard to upgrade from that...must be my personal Holy grail: The Columba Special Twinbar Airider.


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## old hotrod (Feb 11, 2018)

Freqman1 said:


> My flash kinda washed the pic out and this is a pic of a '41 model (floating hub). The horn light is gonna be tough. You might be able to find the rack badge from one of the F9T reproductions. Cool bike. V/r Shawn
> View attachment 752104



Bike is unusual, most Clamshell tanks have internal horn. Early clamshell tanks used the person's reflector lite, later used the Columbia specific fender light like the repop. I have a horn light for sale...Like to see inside of tank

Sent from my SM-T377T using Tapatalk


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## old hotrod (Feb 11, 2018)

cds2323 said:


> The E19T image is from the 1940 catalog. E would be 40 and F from 41. The F9T reproductions are of a 1941 bike.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



agreed, no dashboard..

Sent from my SM-T377T using Tapatalk


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## old hotrod (Feb 11, 2018)

tryder said:


> I'm thinking its a '40 based on the chainguard.  A dashboard bike would have a chrome fork.



Incorrect, I have seen the dash on many models...Chrome fork is a different upgrade

Sent from my SM-T377T using Tapatalk


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## old hotrod (Feb 11, 2018)

Jay81 said:


> Really? I thought it would have, since it has the "ears" built into the frame and the holes to mount the drop stand. But if it's not supposed to have one, it'll save me around a Benjamin.



Correct, no need for dropstand...

Sent from my SM-T377T using Tapatalk


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## tryder (Feb 11, 2018)

old hotrod said:


> Bike is unusual, most Clamshell tanks have internal horn. Early clamshell tanks used the person's reflector lite, later used the Columbia specific fender light like the repop. I have a horn light for sale...Like to see inside of tank
> 
> Sent from my SM-T377T using Tapatalk



Jay81 can you please open your tank and post some photos?


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## tryder (Feb 11, 2018)

old hotrod said:


> . I have a horn light for sale...
> 
> Sent from my SM-T377T using Tapatalk



Yeah?


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## Jay81 (Feb 11, 2018)

tryder said:


> Jay81 can you please open your tank and post some photos?




No tank horn. Just the button, light switch and battery tray.


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## old hotrod (Feb 11, 2018)

Jay81 said:


> No tank horn. Just the button, light switch and battery tray.
> 
> View attachment 752489 View attachment 752490 View attachment 752491



Very cool, same big battery as used in the floating tanks

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## MrColumbia (Feb 11, 2018)

A 1940 for sure. That was the last year for the cheese grater chain guard that ran from 1938-40. The "ears" on the frame were an unused vestige on most Columbia models since the mid 30's as they had switched to kickstands on all but their most "entry models". Image from the 1940 Columbia catalog.


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## old hotrod (Feb 11, 2018)

MrColumbia said:


> A 1940 for sure. That was the last year for the cheese grater chain guard that ran from 1938-40. The "ears" on the frame were an unused vestige on most Columbia models since the mid 30's as they had switched to kickstands on all but their most "entry models". Image from the 1940 Columbia catalog. View attachment 752572



Bam, mic drop...there ya go...


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## jacob9795 (Feb 11, 2018)

Here’s my wife’s bike, 1941.


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## tryder (Feb 15, 2018)

Jay81 said:


> I cleaned up the mystery letter at the beginning of the serial. It looks an F and an E depending on lighting, camera angle etc.
> Here's after cleaning it with and without the flash. With the flash it looks like an F and without looks like E.
> I'm thinking it is an E that is very weak at the bottom.
> I tried to clean it a little more after these pics and it went back to looking like F.
> ...




The bottom part of the E on my serial is weak as well. Not nearly as deep as the top part.  My bike has a G4 code above the E67686 serial number.





It has the same "1940 Paint" Columbia "Cheese Grater" Chain guardl:





No place in the front fender for a shielded cable ferrule:






My girls Rambler has a hole like this and has a Persons "Reflector Light".  Since its an early 1940: G4, I am thinking thats what went here:

View attachment 755206

Not sure if it even had a tank originally.  I guess I will have to double check.


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