# Petty crooks - The Wheelmen



## pikljoose (Jul 30, 2015)

I figured it would be neat to see what it's all about so I submitted for membership and paid my money..  

That was 6-8 weeks ago.  Not a peep.  No materials, no communication, nothing.  I have made repeated attempts to contact them ( through multiple emails) and all efforts have gone ignored.

I have filed a PayPal claim against them.  

Certainly no aspirations for getting a refund.  

Why do they even bother to solicit new members if they just leave them hanging?


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## MrColumbia (Jul 30, 2015)

I was a member for a couple of years. Not crooks, just very slow and behind the times as far as communication goes.


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## bricycle (Jul 30, 2015)

Just for FYI, it took 3 mo's to get my packet, after many calls. Not good for PR....... just say'n. In their defense tho, it's probably volunteers doing the work, and they have lives as well....


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Jul 30, 2015)

They are not too quick to register memberships.
Been there, done that...


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## Iverider (Jul 30, 2015)

escape*artist said:


> I figured it would be neat to see what it's all about so I submitted for membership and paid my money..
> 
> That was 6-8 weeks ago.  Not a peep.  No materials, no communication, nothing.  I have made repeated attempts to contact them ( through multiple emails) and all efforts have gone ignored.
> 
> ...




Not crooks. Just a little slow. They are staffed by volunteers who live in different states. The National Meet had everyone busy when you applied I'm sure. In any case, I would encourage those of you considering joining The Wheelmen to actually go to a meet first, National or Regional. That's what they are about. Riding, researching and preserving pre 1918 bicycles. If you plan to get much out of the organization going to the meets or participating in the exhibitions is really the best way to do it. I've met a number of wonderful people by doing so.

Have you tried contacting the Captain of your state? http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/statedivisions/statedivisions.asp

If you're dead set about not being a member at this point, I'm sure they won't mind.


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## decotriumph (Jul 30, 2015)

I concur with what the other guys have said. Slow as molasses on a Vermont winter morning but good people and certainly not crooks. I'd guess their median age to be in the 70s or 80s, not exactly the most computer savvy or fast moving group but they have a ton of knowledge about TOC bikes and their magazine is worth the price of admission if you like real early bicycle history. Once you finally get your membership started, they keep up well.


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## The Wheelmen Memebership (Jul 30, 2015)

Hi Everyone, my name is Ken Gray and I'm the Membership Chairman for The Wheelmen.

I was first made aware of the problem this evening; I appreciate all of the feedback and apologize for the delays in processing memberships. I work full time and spend 100s of hours each year of my spare time doing this job, in addition to trying to find time to get on a bicycle. It is not my intention to disappoint anyone, especially new applicants, with the time it takes to process an application. However, as was mentioned we are a non-profit club and operate with all volunteers. 

Please feel free to contact me directly (membership@thewheelmen.org) if you have any questions or comments. I'm happy to work with the original poster to resolve the problem. Please note that the email address we use for PayPal is not monitored since it was set up and is maintained by our former Treasurer.

Keep on wheelin'
Ken Gray
The Wheelmen Membership Chairman
membership@thewheelmen.org


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Jul 30, 2015)

Thanks for all the hard work, taking care of the website.
I'm hoping that the website gets an upgrade, to the new century.
It has a lot of frustrating shortcomings.
Compared to this site, The Wheelman site program is very antiquated.
Ok for our bicycles but not a website.
I'm sure other members would agree...


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## Freqman1 (Jul 31, 2015)

It took me nearly two years to get on their forum. I decided I would rather not collect TOC bikes save for my Pierce so didn't see any reason to pursue further. V/r Shawn


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## catfish (Jul 31, 2015)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> They are not too quick to register memberships.
> Been there, done that...




Another reason why the wheelmen are dieing off as a group. That and the fact that most of them are 100+ years old and don't like any bike made after 1915.......


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Jul 31, 2015)

There is a discussion, by The Wheelman, to include up to 1933 bicycles.
Too bad, they can't include up to 1941....


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## Iverider (Jul 31, 2015)

The decision to include up to 1933 is because bikes did not change drastically between 1918 and 1933. With the advent of the balloon tire bicycle you have a new era of bicycles to consider entirely. In 50 years I'm sure they'll have enveloped that era as well.


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## cyclingday (Jul 31, 2015)

I was talking with a guy last week, who said that he's been hearing that the Balloon Tire bikes collectability is just about dead, and that the Turn of the Century bikes is where it's headed.
I just laughed.
I told him that I've noticed a trend as well. The big time car guys are starting to collect bicycles, and they're not collecting Turn of the Century bikes.


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## Junkhunter (Aug 1, 2015)

I joined recently also. They are a bit slow with their membership packages, but I have met a few, and found each one of them to be very helpful, and eager to share information. I enjoy the historical aspect to collecting these bikes. Comparing the evolution of the auto industry to what was happening in the bicycle world at that time is very interesting. There are tons of groups dedicated to balloon tire bikes on Facebook. There's a place for all of them in our cycling world. Thank you Ken. If I can be of any help, just let me know what I can do. Come on guys, you have to admit, They put on some great events!


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## catfish (Aug 1, 2015)

Junkhunter said:


> I joined recently also. They are a bit slow with their membership packages, but I have met a few, and found each one of them to be very helpful, and eager to share information. I enjoy the historical aspect to collecting these bikes. Comparing the evolution of the auto industry to what was happening in the bicycle world at that time is very interesting. There are tons of groups dedicated to balloon tire bikes on Facebook. There's a place for all of them in our cycling world. Thank you Ken. If I can be of any help, just let me know what I can do. Come on guys, you have to admit, They put on some great events!




I was a member of the Wheelmen for a few years back in the late 80s early 90s. Never got any help from anyone. I do have a bunch good friends that are long time members. And the club does do a lot of good work.


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## pelletman (Aug 2, 2015)

Catfish you never asked for any help from me, which you would promptly receive...  And our median age is NOT 100, we have a bunch of young members..


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## catfish (Aug 3, 2015)

pelletman said:


> Catfish you never asked for any help from me, which you would promptly receive...  And our median age is NOT 100, we have a bunch of young members..




David,    I haven't asked you for help. But I would never hesitate if I needed too. You are one of the Wheelmen that I call a friend. And yes, the club does have younger members.   Catfish


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## pelletman (Aug 3, 2015)

catfish said:


> David,    I haven't asked you for help. But I would never hesitate if I needed too. You are one of the Wheelmen that I call a friend. And yes, the club does have younger members.   Catfish




Good!  I consider you a friend too.


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## Handyman (Aug 3, 2015)

Hi Dave, Please check your PM's ......  Pete in Fitchburg


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## lorne-shields (Aug 3, 2015)

*A personal perspective*

*A PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE*. 


Greetings fellow Cabers.

Enough has been said to prove the legitimacy to The Wheelmen so that there is no longer any need to go there.  

Here is a link to THE WHEELMEN’s site so you can judge for yourself how one might enjoy and benefit from membership. 

http://www.thewheelmen.org/

In a broad generality I have found that many people join various cycling organizations based upon both their personal history and objects which rest within their collection.  Notwithstanding age of the members, best bear in mind that it has been much easier for Cabers to find bikes post 1933 than pre 1933.  We tend to develop our interests with what we both own and enjoy.   One will go on from there.  Just because you own a bike from 1897 does not mean that you should migrate over to The Wheelmen.  As we collect more and more we broaden our knowledge base which allows us to recognize various aspects of a common interest and consequently seek other venues with answers to questions. 

The Wheelmen is a site to find those answers which may not be available elsewhere.  Over the years I have gleaned a lot from the organization and, as a bonus, made many friends. 

Obviously I am a member of this site at THE CABE.   There are other organizations that one might wish to join if involved in early cycling such as the Veteran Cycle Club (http://www.v-cc.org.uk/ ) in England and IVCA ~ International Veteran Cycle Association ( http://www.ivca-online.org/ ). 
Ken Gray has explained in part some of his concerns.  
Bear in mind that the CABE an exceptional site with Scott and crew doing a fab job.  Also bear in mind that there are other steps one can take as circumstances or opportunities arise. 
Have a safe ride along the path.

Lorne Shields


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Aug 3, 2015)

It would be nice, if The Wheelman website could be revamped. That is my only complaint.


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## pikljoose (Nov 9, 2015)

FYI, I did finally receive a refund via Paypal complaint process.

I also received a copy of Wheelmen newsletter soon thereafter.  Somewhere in there was a discussion about how Wheelmen membership levels continue to suffer/decline. 

Shocker.

I was willing and able to dedicate some time and resources to promoting a local chapter or events.  

My primary motivation was the 2016 New Haven event.  After all, I am only an hour away from event site and I figured I could be of some assistance.

I have since shifted my focus elsewhere.


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## vuniw (Nov 9, 2015)

catfish said:


> Another reason why the wheelmen are dieing off as a group. That and the fact that most of them are 100+ years old and don't like any bike made after 1915.......




I'm a Wheelmen and I'm 24. Unfortunately I have not been to an actual meet because I am busy with school but I love receiving the newsletter. I am hoping to get more use out of my membership when I have more time in a few years. I am looking forward to the New Haven event as I only live 15 minutes from there.

I like the exclusivity of only allowing bikes up to 1915 though as those are the only bikes I am interested in (except some 1960s muscle bikes). It is like the Horseless Carriage Club of America that only allows cars up to 1915 which I also participate in. The bikes and cars had a certain look and feel of that time. If balloon tire bikes were included I would have been turned away from the group because I am just not interested in them.


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## bricycle (Nov 9, 2015)

It's not 1918 anymore?


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## vuniw (Nov 9, 2015)

Sorry I think it is 1918. Mixing up the Wheelmen and the HCCA cut off year


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## filmonger (Nov 9, 2015)

Ok - I'll write you a Miami Bicycle check for compensation


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## bricycle (Nov 9, 2015)

talk about stale dated.......


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## John (Nov 9, 2015)

catfish said:


> That and the fact that most of them are 100+ years old .....




100+!!! I feel young


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## walter branche (Nov 9, 2015)

*double standard ??*

i thought SCOTT wrote to stop the negativity on the board . why is this negative thread on here about the wheelmen , they are not criminals or petty crooks , they do what they do.. the way they do it ,very rare to hear or read a complaint ,


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## GTs58 (Nov 9, 2015)

walter branche said:


> i thought SCOTT wrote to stop the negativity on the board . why is this negative thread on here about the wheelmen , they are not criminals or petty crooks , they do what they do.. the way they do it ,very rare to hear or read a complaint




I can't say that I noticed any negativity here. Just some facts on how _they do what they do and the way they do it_. If they do what they do a little faster, or let prospective members know ahead of time that that's _the way they do it_, then there won't be anyone worrying about being ripped off when they sign up and pay for a membership. I for one thought this was an informative thread.


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## Dale Alan (Nov 10, 2015)

GTs58 said:


> I can't say that I noticed any negativity here. Just some facts on how _they do what they do and the way they do it_. If they do what they do a little faster, or let prospective members know ahead of time that that's _the way they do it_, then there won't be anyone worrying about being ripped off when they sign up and pay for a membership. I for one thought this was an informative thread.




Thread: Petty crooks - The Wheelmen

Title looks negative to me.


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## pikljoose (Nov 10, 2015)

"Just because you own a bike from 1897 does not mean that you should migrate over to The Wheelmen."

This is quite possibly the most truthful Wheelman statement made in this thread.

Now I get it.  

It's an antique bicycle club that is not interested in new members that are interested in antique bikes.


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## Iverider (Nov 10, 2015)

Have you better things to do?


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## PhilipJ (Nov 10, 2015)

I'm a member of the Wheelmen and have had great experiences with this organization. I know that others have not. My biggest concern with this thread is the inconsistency of the CABE moderators. People are sharing "just the facts" about their negative experiences with the Wheelmen. I support their right to do that but when I shared "just the facts" about my experience with BobU my posts were deleted. I think the Cabe is showing a bias that is not healthy for our community. So my question to the Cabe is why is it acceptable to share negative experiences about the Wheelmen but not about a Cabe member that many other members have loyalty toward?


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## wasp3245 (Nov 10, 2015)

Hello Cabe and the World 

  I have been a Wheelmen member since 1997 and have met many wonderful people through the club. I feel very fortunate to have a network of friends that extend around the world all sharing the passion for antique bicycles , all this was possible by networking through the Wheelmen.   
  In 2017 the Wheelmen mark their 50th anniversary  of collecting , restoring , researching, and riding antique bicycles. The Wheelmen is a family organization, it is common  to have several generations of riders in the same family.  The Wheelmen is an all volunteer organization so all publications , meets, website etc are done by enthusiastic "non-paid" collectors who offer their money , energy  and time  for the betterment of the hobby and organization( in other words they have day jobs).
  The Wheelmen as a club has evolved over the years , beginning as an all high-wheel club ,   to including early safeties , expanding to pre 1918 cycles , next year we vote to expand the date to pre 1933 bicycles.    In all collecting  fields you have folks who specialize in  one or two aspects of the wide variety of choices found within the general topic.  The Wheelmen are no different we have members who specialize in  lamps, high-wheels, hard tire safeties,  photographs, research,  early pneumatic,   individual manufactures , period outfits, catalogs,etc . There are members with one bike , others with 100's, some never ride , others only ride,  it is a diverse club. 
 Around the world you have  many antique , vintage, old  bicycle groups /organizations all based on a wide variety of specialties or inclusive to a wide range of interests.  In England there is the VCC ( Veteran Cycle Club)  that just celebrated it's 60th anniversary this year.  The VCC  has grown and evolved over the years also to reflect current cycling interests and tastes.   What was considered an antique bicycle is 1955  and what is considered a antique , vintage , old bicycle today ... has changed and includes bikes that had not yet been built in 1955.    
   The rigid  time-frame restrictions  allow a certain consistency visually, technologically,  fashion , speed , etc  within the group , depending on which end of the telescope you  are looking through that leads to harmony or exclusivity. Try joining a Harley riding group whilst in a Vespa.  Both Harley's and Vespa's are great but the riders may sit at opposite ends of the bar. 

  Next year, 2016 marks a very historic Bicycling landmark ..1865 Pierre Lallement, ( Frenchman living in New Haven CT)   received the first bicycle patent in the world.  Please plan on making the pilgrimage to New Haven and Ansonia Ct  June 25th and 26th to pedal in the path of Lallement . The 150th anniversary is open to the world , all bicycles and riders are welcome !   Saturday June 25th we will ride from Ansonia to Derby and return , recreating the original American velocipede trail ride . Sunday June 26th  we ride around New Haven where Lallement was seen April  4th 1866 riding across the New Haven green , being reported in the next day newspaper , oldest know bicycle press  citing.  There will also be history lectures in the afternoon and a antique bicycle exhibition as part of the ICHC ( International Cycling History Conference)  , open to the public  ( Sunday only ..registration required to attend Monday -Wednesday) .  
More information will be made available as details are finalized. Please see link   http://www.ichc.biz/2016-EN/2016-01-intro.php

Hope to see all aspects of the antique, vintage , old , modern bicycling world in  New Haven next year.

Cheers Carey Williams 
Below photos from this years Wheelmen meet in Chestertown MD 
Come join the fun!


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## walter branche (Nov 10, 2015)

*please remove this slander thread*

Scott must be busy ,or he would have delt with this ,. The Wheelmen and there contributors have done more for the bicycle collector hobby than any other organization in the world , ..  When I gave the list of collectors to Richard Truett , and he eventually sold it to Scott McCasky , the Cabe was born into the form it is in now ,  I never made a penny from my massive list of folks from all over the world that i contributed , ..  I have been censored many times here and on the wheelmen site ,,   I will always put my thoughts on here and the wheelmen  site , and they can always remove them ,,   now it is TIME TO REMOVE THIS THREAD _calling names on the WHEELMEN club , . is not good , or right , ..


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## Freqman1 (Nov 10, 2015)

I agree that using the word 'crooks' was slanderous. That said I feel the Wheelmen could help themselves by being a little more responsive to prospective members. I considered membership at one time but it took right at two years just to get a response. I see others here have experienced the same frustration. V/r Shawn


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## cyclingday (Nov 10, 2015)

Long live the Wheelmen!
The 150th Lallement patent anniversary sounds like a blast.
Thanks, for posting that information.


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## SirMike1983 (Nov 10, 2015)

It sounds like it will be a cool event, but New Haven isn't what it used to be. As of 2011, WSJ ranked it the 4th most dangerous city in the country for its size.


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## wasp3245 (Nov 11, 2015)

New Haven garden spot of America ? ..Ok had I been Lallement's travel adviser I would have directed him to Greenwich.

We can not change history ...( even through a great number of agenda minded authors keep trying)    

New Haven was the cite of Hobby Horses for the summer of 1819...

Karl Kron  attended Yale and fell in love with cycling at the local velo rink summer of 1869 

And Lallement  rode across the green April 1866 ...  

so the ride in New Haven will be Sunday morning  roughly 9-12 ...... the town is very peaceful, calm , traquil and  lovely   during these hours .  

Ansonia / Derby are sleepy little communities  fine for riding 24/7 

So please plan to attend the 150th anniversary of riding in America .... bring whatever bicyle  you have,   all welcome ! 

Few of use will be around to celebrate the 200th anniversary ..so let's make the most of it in 2016 .

See you in New Haven/ Ansonia next year June 25th -26th 

Cheers Carey


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## filmonger (Nov 11, 2015)

1897


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