# Multispeed Casette on SA 3 Speed



## borgward (Aug 6, 2022)

I have seen multi speed cassettes on Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hubs. Do they just thread onto the 3 speed hub or is machining required? I have an extra English 3 speed bike to experiment with. I am guessing that the frame would have to be modified to accommodate the extra width of the cassette, the right rear side of the frame would have to be further apart from the bikes centerline.


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## bulldog1935 (Aug 6, 2022)

Both Classic bike websites (Lightweights and Rendezvous) have lost a lot of their database, but Lovely Bicycle blog has a hybrid drive example.








						Hybrid Gearing in the Wild: a 6-Speed Hub x Derailleur 'Collabo'
					

On my Brompton folding bicycle I have a drivetrain that most people who notice it find innovative and exotic: a 3-speed hub combined with a...




					lovelybike.blogspot.com
				




Google search is further compounded that Hybrid Drive and Gearing is now used for e-bikes.
But here's the search on The CABE:








						Search results for query: hybrid gearing
					






					thecabe.com
				




OK, I gave CL website a little longer to respond, and my search there found this article.  




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						Hybrid hub - Derailleur Gears
					





					www.classiclightweights.co.uk


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## Schwinny (Aug 6, 2022)

I was going through Cyclo catalogs yesterday and saw they had a kit. So did Brompton and Simplex.
I just took apart a early 2000s "Schwinn" with a hybrid drive rear hub and am thinking about that for a next build.
A 27 gear bike is possible with the old SA And a 64 gear is possible with the modern hybrid drive.
Gear redundancy and terminal speed as well as cables, weight and practically are the evil scientists bane.
I AM thinking of a 64 gear 531 road bike for next year's cross-state ride...
Muhaha.....


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## stingrayjoe (Aug 20, 2022)

1954 Raliegh 6 speed Touring Bicycle | Vintage Lightweight Bicycles
					

Picked up today. I thought the gear train was unusual. Anyone have any knowledge of this bike? SA hub shell is dated 12 54 and signed “Alloy”.




					thecabe.com


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## WillWork4Parts (Aug 20, 2022)

borgward said:


> I have seen multi speed cassettes on Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hubs. Do they just thread onto the 3 speed hub or is machining required? I have an extra English 3 speed bike to experiment with. I am guessing that the frame would have to be modified to accommodate the extra width of the cassette, the right rear side of the frame would have to be further apart from the bikes centerline.



The 50 something and earlier Sturmey drivers have threads that will take a normal freewheel thread. They were not designed with enough axle threads to add a 5 speed freewheel though. 
The more common Sturmey driver has 3 notches and I don't believe the diameter is standard to work with any cassette cogs. I've not tried them though as the driver isn't wide enough to fit 2 cogs on without one of them having an offset. There are specific parts and kits made as direct fit, but they can be hard to find.


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 20, 2022)

Several companies made en-bloc units that would either thread onto the driver, or drop onto the driver (depending on the age of your Sturmey AW). Those are first preference. It is possible to make a crude 2-cog unit with appropriately sized cogs set back-to-back on the driver.  With that cruder set up, you need to play with the spacing to get a good chain line, but something that is doable.

The complications go beyond what is on your driver though. You need to decide whether to try to run a 1/8" chain (as one would with the 1/8 Cyclo set up), or whether you are converting everything over to 3/32" (and with that comes replacing all different manner of parts on the drivetrain). Hence why purchase of the hybrid set up as a unit (en-bloc cogs, Cyclo derailleur, shifters, etc.) was the popular way to go. It's something that is trickier to piece together than just finding a couple cogs and guessing at what goes where. It's doable but you need to be ready to take it on as a bit of a project.


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## SKPC (Aug 20, 2022)

^^^.  I want to test two dished cogs spaced for single speed chain clearance between them and run some kind of tensioner.  After selecting your preferred front ring size, (depending on terrain) with a two cog x three planetary hub in the back and internal braking you would have some solid ranges.   Keep it simple and move it cog to cog manually.


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## dnc1 (Aug 21, 2022)

Some early twin chainring systems used this manual method @SKPC. 
I have a friend who occasionally brings out such a machine.
I have a threaded double-cog somewhere,  I think it may fit SA hubs, I will check.


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## borgward (Aug 21, 2022)

How do I determine which Hub I have w/out taking it apart?


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## WillWork4Parts (Aug 21, 2022)

Firstly, look for a clipring holding the sprocket on. You may have to clean it to spot threads or see the split in the clipring and the 3 notches. 
If it's threaded, good luck getting the sprocket off, they tend to be fairly seized, but you can find separate drivers with no sprocket installed on eBay.


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## WillWork4Parts (Aug 21, 2022)

Would probably be easy enough to post pics of your hub up here too. Should be a month/year stamp in the middle of the hub if you're curious. 

Here's some examples of the drivers.


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## dnc1 (Aug 21, 2022)

borgward said:


> How do I determine which Hub I have w/out taking it apart?



The pictures in the post immediately above by @WillWork4Parts  clearly shows the 3 notches version, and the threaded version of the driver. 
It should be possible to determine which version you have without removing your existing sprocket.  
Just removing the rear wheel and cleaning the external area where the sprocket is attached should tell you what you need to know; threads, or 3 notches will be visible.


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## borgward (Aug 23, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> The pictures in the post immediately above by @WillWork4Parts  clearly shows the 3 notches version, and the threaded version of the driver.
> It should be possible to determine which version you have without removing your existing sprocket.
> Just removing the rear wheel and cleaning the external area where the sprocket is attached should tell you what you need to know; threads, or 3 notches will be visible.



The hub is an AW 10 73, so notches. It already has the largest sprocket at the hub, and I need to go lower. I am thinking Campagnolo 2 sprocket and pedal assembly on the front. I am waiting for reply on Raleigh 10 speed, 26 X 1-3/8 tires that just came up for sale. Looks like the front sprockets that are on a standard Raleigh bottom bracket assembly like that is on my Raleigh Sport 3 speed. Are there other front sprocket assembly's that would work on the 3 speed?


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## WillWork4Parts (Aug 23, 2022)

I'm not sure where you're going with this...but it sounds like you're trying to end up with 3 different shifters?

It also helps to tackle one problem at a time and with Pictures.


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## borgward (Aug 23, 2022)

WillWork4Parts said:


> I'm not sure where you're going with this...but it sounds like you're trying to end up with 3 different shifters?
> 
> It also helps to tackle one problem at a time and with Pictures.


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## ditchpig (Aug 23, 2022)

Cool idea. I'm sure you'll engineer something. I think you said you already have a single fairly large cog on your 3-speed hub. If you just installed a chain tensioner you could run a multi-chainring crank with a front derailieur to multiply your gearing range.


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## borgward (Aug 23, 2022)

Like you said, Keep it simple. My rear sprocket has 17 Teeth. I found 19 tooth ones, but I don't think that's going to be low enough. I think I will search for a 2 sprocket setup and chain tensioner for the front.

I just picked up the Raleigh Record 10 speed with 26 X 1-3/8 tires for our deteriorating roads. Too rough for my World Sport. I can now modify the 3 speed at my leisure.


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## Eric Amlie (Aug 24, 2022)

I've put 22t cogs on most of my bikes with S-A AW hubs(3 notch driver).
They're pretty common and easy to find.
I remember seeing one seller who also had a 24t cog.
IIRC, S-A recommends not going with more than a 2 to 1 ratio between the chainring and the cog so you don't exceed the torque capabilities of the hub.


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 24, 2022)

I keep a list of Sturmey gearing notes here:





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						Sturmey Archer Hub Gear Ratio Notes
					

A blog devoted to vintage bicycle repair and cycling in general.




					bikeshedva.blogspot.com
				




The hub you mention should indeed have the splined driver. I did a short review of drivers and Sturmey parts here:









						Do Sturmey Archer AW Parts All Interchange?
					

A blog devoted to vintage bicycle repair and cycling in general.




					bikeshedva.blogspot.com


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## WillWork4Parts (Aug 24, 2022)

Sturmey 24t sprocket on eBay.
The price isn't hideous either.


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## borgward (Aug 24, 2022)

SirMike1983 said:


> I keep a list of Sturmey gearing notes here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



3 splines for AW, but need to remove to confirm if 3 or 9 spline


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## WillWork4Parts (Aug 24, 2022)

That age, it's definitely a 3 spline.


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## borgward (Aug 24, 2022)

WillWork4Parts said:


> That age, it's definitely a 3 spline.



I agree. Will check before ordering anyway.


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