# ZULIANI Oria 'helical' frame



## Jesper (Mar 1, 2022)

I'm not meaning to go all out with "Z" bikes this week (still have a Zullo somewhere), but since I have no information regarding this frame I figured I would put it in the public's eye and hope for some feedback.

I am aware of the racer Aldo Zuliani (1929-2011), but I have no idea if this brand has anything to do with him being directly involved with the brand, other family tie-ins, or just a tribute to him. Who knows; I have never seen another frame of this brand nor even a pantographed component.

I don't know if the paint is original so the "ML 25" "3 TUBI" Oria decal may not be original. I have seen other frames with this style of helically grooved tubing (Conti, and Ciöcc), but no direct reference to the "ML 25" tubeset having helical grooves. I only have a couple other Oria tubeset frames, and of those only one has shaped tubing (late 80s Moser Leader SC with somewhat 'octagonally' cross-sectional shaped tubing- very lightweight that I believe is the "GM 0.0" tubing). Seat post is 27.2mm, 126mm rear fork; Gipiemme drop-outs.



































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## Jesper (Mar 2, 2022)

After some research I found that Aldo Zuliani rode for Faggin in 1951; specifically recruited by the company before he went professional in 1952. That might mean that Faggin produced the frame, but I have no evidence that they used Oria tubes for their frames. It's possible that Faggin used Oria tubes for frames not bearing their name, but that is pure speculation. I'll try to see if they used Oria for any of their contract frames. Again, there may be no connection to Aldo Zuliani or Faggin regarding this frame.


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## Jake1 (Mar 6, 2022)

Here are some links to examples of this helical tubing. 

  Steel Vintage Bike's examples are both Ciöcc bikes, and they state: "...Oria tubes have been helically crimped, creating a wonderful spiral shape. Their structure, resembling a mythical unicorn horn......Paintwork and decals are original."
  Unfortunately, though one frame does have an Oria decal (white with black lettering), you can't discern any writing on it that will provide a means to identify the tubing type.
https://steel-vintage.com/ciocc-50th...sary-200923-03
https://steel-vintage.com/ciocc-desi...ed220218-01-01

  From The Spoken comes another Ciöcc example having a Columbus Cromor decal on it; and that site states: "...I have the pleasure of being the latest guardian of a Conti Astore road frame, which is built with a similar set of crimped tubes....My Astore had a Dedacciai sticker on the seat tube, which deepens the mystery further. There is evidence of the tubes being used on frames by other builders so they weren’t specific to Pelizzoli..." 
  Ultimately, near the end of the article there is a quote supposedly from Alessandro Caccia at Pelizzoli stating: “Giovanni is honored seeing someone collect his old brand frames Ciöcc. The frame coming from the end of 80s — it’s not easy to say the right year but should be around ’86 to ’89, from the industrial production when Giovanni sold the brand to Cicli Conti (in Fara Gera d’Adda). The tubing is not Columbus Cromor but Oria with special twisted shape.”
   So another confirmation as to it being Oria tubing, but still no identification as to what type.
https://www.cycleexif.com/ciocc-strada

Finally, a Dancelli on RetrobikeUK; again no identification (no decal) of the tubing type other than another saying it's Oria, but providing no evidence.
https://www.retrobike.co.uk/threads/...o-bike.322188/

I couldn't find the Conti; it may have been a 'for sale' bike, and was just an ephemeral online listing.

I also tried to find a facsimile of the black and white Oria decal to no avail.

  Given the one Ciöcc frame with a presumed original Oria decal, I think you can put the tubing brand to rest; but wait until a frame comes online with an original tubing decal hopefulky giving the actual type designation.
  Also, given the era that the frame is from (mid to late 80s?), and all the crazy tubing styles that were being produced, both for specialized custom and commercial production applications, I think it is possible that this was, in general overall, a fairly limited production run and may have been something used by builders as an alternate tube set used in order to provide a more unique frame for their product line. Columbus made custom tubing quite regularly for many builders with Colnago being one of the most obvious.

  One last thing that has me a little perplexed is the generic look (for what I could see of it) of that one decal example. It almost appears that it was designed just to slap a decal on it providing Oria with some recognition, but not worth their time to produce a nice colored snazzy decal like they usually have. To be everything about these frames says custom and limited production for high end artisan manufacturers to enable to them be sold as specialty model bikes back in the days.

   The fact that I spent a fair amount of time trying to get info on another's bike (everyone here has been great at helping my ignorant butt!) trying to educate and inform myself, as well as Jesper, and could only find about 6 examples (photos and anecdotal) is a pretty good indication as to the overall rarity of your frame, regardless of the fact that I found not one reference to the marque itself (although I did find an expired sale listing for what I believe was your actual frame when it was listed prior to your purchase of it). 

Might I ask where you obtained it; I was overseas for a little bit and never heard of (or saw) that brand in my wanderings. I am not concerned with what you paid; I assume you got for the value you saw in it. A very nice find!

That's all I have! Hope it helps.

PS. I did discover something that has no bearing, but still a tangential relationship. There is/was a French bike marque by the name of Oria well before the tubing company existed. From research, Oria tubing company name came from Oriago region around Venice; I may actually have passed through there enroute Venice via train about 35 years ago ('87); just about the time your tubes were being manufactured!




 

 
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## Jake1 (Mar 6, 2022)

I think  this would be a cool badge to mount to an Oria frame even though it's French. It still gets the point across: Light Cycles by Oria!


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## dnc1 (Mar 7, 2022)

Jake1 said:


> I think  this would be a cool badge to mount to an Oria frame even though it's French. It still gets the point across: Light Cycles by Oria!
> 
> View attachment 1583691



'Luxury Cycles' by Oria


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## Jake1 (Mar 8, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> 'Luxury Cycles' by Oria



My apologies; I know it is French for luxury/deluxe, but another phone autocorrect faux pas! I need to shut that function off somehow (or not use the phone for this purpose).


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## dnc1 (Mar 8, 2022)

It happens to us all!


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## Jesper (Mar 9, 2022)

Thank you @Jake1 for the links to those other frames. I do find it odd that with all the different frames shown there is mention of multiple tubing companies and/or decals (Dedacciai, Oria, Columbus). I think that the quote by the Ciocc representative might be the defining bit of evidence. Too bad there was no designation provided by him. I wonder if Steel Vintage bikes had any more archival photos of the frame with the obscured decal; I tend to agree with you regarding the somewhat generic nature of what can be seen of the decal considering what Oria normally had during that era. Quite the mystery still by all parties involved with no one being able to put a label on what type of tubing Oria used here. 
If you saw this same color frame online, then it is probably the one I have now. The seller is an ebay guy, but I got it awhile ago as a direct sale since he finds interesting stuff in Italy for me all the time. If I recall correctly, my Zanella frame was also purchased from him. I get much better deals by avoiding ebay, and establish much better relationships with sellers since they actually make more money (no ebay sales and shipping fees lost) while at the same time saving me more money (no sales tax on purchase cost or on shipping cost, shipping much cheaper also).
If more information arises I will certainly update this thread since everyone so far is in the dark as to what the tubing actually is. Plus still trying to determine if Zuliani relates to a sales brand, or actual builder's marque. I am sending a message to Faggin to see if they can shed any light on the subject; be it the brand or tubing.
Stay tuned!


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## Jesper (May 12, 2022)

2 more months and no success except the Italian ladies team using the Zuliani name. Contacted them, but no reply as to where they took their name from. I have discovered 2 other cyclists by the name of Zuliani aside from Aldo ('52-'56); Mario (another Italian by birth, but road as French; '56-'58), and Marcel (French; '53).


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## bulldog1935 (May 13, 2022)

If no one else mentioned it, 3 Tubi denotes that only the main triangle is the butted alloy tubing associated with the badge.  
Rear triangles are expected to be straight gauge, and unspecified alloy or carbon steel.


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## Jesper (May 14, 2022)

Thanks @bulldog1935 . I am familiar with the "tre tubi" having a few Columbus frames of that designation, but I appreciate the heads-up with you not assuming I was already aware of its meaning. I often I take for granted that someone knows what I am talking about without even thinking it is not in their knowledge base. I never take it as an insult when being educated; only makes me all the better for it.

 I neglected to mention that the tubing has 8 grooves. I initially just assumed 6 like the straight grooved  Columbus "ESA" or Falck tubes.


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## Jesper (Dec 27, 2022)

New info from member on BDC-mag site:
"Aldo Zuliani, my fellow villager who died a few years ago, also made the Giro professional at the time. Then he opened and managed for many years with his wife a bike shop not far from home. In the area there are many bikes branded Zuliani, purchased from his shop. I imagine that those of a certain range if he had them made by some local craftsman (Zanella or Railz to name a few) but I'm not sure. Surely his wife, still alive, would be able to give an answer on the matter."

Well, not sure about contacting his wife (she must be quite old, unless Aldo married a very young bride late in his life; he was born in late 1929). It is with fair confidence now knowing that he ran a shop that the frame was probably one of his made by contract. It would be interesting if it was a Zanella frame. I have never heard of Railz before. A good chance I could contact Dino and get some more info about whether he made frames for Zuliani or not. 

I managed to find some Zuliani bikes on Subito's site, but no good detailed shots.


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