# Original Paint Elgin Bluebird



## Rust_Trader

Very nice bike- good luck

ELGIN BLUEBIRD BICYCLE ORIGINAL UNRESTORED CONDITION GOOD CONDITION  https://www.ebay.com/i/332416497550


----------



## OldSkipTooth

Beyond the denting in the chainstay, It appears to be welded near the drop out?
A nice patina overall, with some work on the chainstay and a little faux it would be killer!


----------



## detroitbike

Tempting
    What do you think?
      14-18K?


----------



## Freqman1

The seller is a friend of mine and you would do better if you wanted to do a cash deal. V/r Shawn


----------



## gymmanager

Man, why can't I be rich instead of good looking?

Ad reads: 1936/37 ELGIN BLUEBIRD IN ORIGINAL UNRESTORED CONDITION OPALESCENT BLUE.  BIKE IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION OVERALL AND SOLID. THE HORN AND LIGHT BUTTONS ARE IN GOOD SHAPE ALONG WITH THE GRIPS, SPEEDOMETER, CABLE, SPEEDO BASKET  AND GLASS HEADLIGHT LENS. PAINT AND CHROME HAVE PATINA BUT PRESENT VERY WELL. SEARS ALLSTATE TIRES.  THE SPEEDOMETER  LIGHT BULB IS ALSO PRESENT IN THE TANK. THERE IS SOME  DENTING IN THE CHAIN STAY AS SHOWN IN THE PHOTO BUT DOES NOT AFFECT THE BIKE RIDE. NICE EXAMPLE OF A CLASSIC. E-MAIL WITH ANY QUESTIONS. SHIPPING $125 WILL BE IN 2 BOXES FULLY INSURED. NO INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING.


----------



## Robertriley

detroitbike said:


> Tempting
> What do you think?
> 14-18K?




I was thinking 14,500ish.  I'd love to have it but it's not in the cards at this time.


----------



## Bikermaniac

Nice bike, let's see how much it will bring on ebay.


----------



## Freqman1

Bikermaniac said:


> Nice bike, let's see how much it will bring on ebay.




I'm guessing it won't go the distance!


----------



## Bikermaniac

Freqman1 said:


> I'm guessing it won't go the distance!






redline1968 said:


> Looks like this View attachment 694406 View attachment 694407




Yeah, me too.


----------



## Robertriley

It's getting close to 10k.  I would love to see it go the distance


----------



## fordmike65

I'm thinking that BOTH chainstays deserve a much closer look...




Ouch


----------



## Freqman1

fordmike65 said:


> I'm thinking that BOTH chainstays deserve a much closer look...
> View attachment 694557
> Ouch



I've seen much worse fixed @Velocipedist Co. ! V/r Shawn


----------



## bikewhorder

fordmike65 said:


> I'm thinking that BOTH chainstays deserve a much closer look...
> View attachment 694557
> Ouch



Damm, what happened?


----------



## Phattiremike

I'm tempted on this one, would be selling some bikes afterwards... if the chain stays didn't effect the ride I wouldn't touch them, it's only original once.


----------



## jkent

Phattiremike said:


> I'm tempted on this one, would be selling some bikes afterwards... if the chain stays didn't effect the ride I wouldn't touch them, it's only original once.




It may not affect the ride but that doesn't mean that it doesn't effect the integrity (strength) of the frame.
It would really tick me off to spend $10-$15K on a bike and ride it a couple times before the frame decides to give way.
JKent


----------



## Freqman1

jkent said:


> It may not affect the ride but that doesn't mean that it doesn't effect the integrity (strength) of the frame.
> It would really tick me off to spend $10-$15K on a bike and ride it a couple times before the frame decides to give way.
> JKent



Unless you go 250 or better I probably wouldn't sweat it. I believe, with the right equipment, the stays could be repaired and you would hardly notice. V/r Shawn


----------



## Freqman1

Looks like I may have to change my prediction--the auction will likely run to end. Will reserve be met? We'll see! V/r Shawn


----------



## charnleybob

jkent said:


> It may not affect the ride but that doesn't mean that it doesn't effect the integrity (strength) of the frame.
> It would really tick me off to spend $10-$15K on a bike and ride it a couple times before the frame decides to give way.
> JKent




Why in the world would you ride one of these?
These bikes weren't good riders when they were new.
It's like you are driving your 1934 Bugatti to Walmart to pick up some pork rinds.
One wrong move and you have distressed your bike $$$$$.


----------



## Freqman1

charnleybob said:


> Why in the world would you ride one of these?
> These bikes weren't good riders when they were new.
> It's like you are driving your 1934 Bugatti to Walmart to pick up some pork rinds.
> One wrong move and you have distressed your bike $$$$$.




I have two and ride both of them. Personally I think they are nice, comfortable riders. V/r Shawn


----------



## redline1968

charnleybob said:


> Why in the world would you ride one of these?
> These bikes weren't good riders when they were new.
> It's like you are driving your 1934 Bugatti to Walmart to pick up some pork rinds.
> One wrong move and you have distressed your bike $$$$$.



Sorry but Your wrong... they are a great  smooth ride. Till you own one, the feeling is hard to explain its sorta like riding a vintage space rocket....


----------



## charnleybob

It's not a question if you could, it's a question if you should.


----------



## bikewhorder

I haven't ridden mine yet but I suspect it will be like every pre war balloon tire bike I've ever ridden... miserable.


----------



## New Mexico Brant

bikewhorder said:


> I haven't ridden mine yet but I suspect it will be like every pre war balloon tire bike I've ever ridden... miserable.



Then please sell it to me!!


----------



## cyclingday

I know, that this will sound crazy, but I rode my 37 Bluebird on a single track trail at night, up in Yosemite National Park.
Some of the most fun I've had riding an old bike, and I can just about guarantee that was the first time an Elgin Bluebird was ridden down that trail.
These bikes were built incredibly strong. Hence the near 100 pound weight.


----------



## Robertriley

charnleybob said:


> Why in the world would you ride one of these?
> These bikes weren't good riders when they were new.
> It's like you are driving your 1934 Bugatti to Walmart to pick up some pork rinds.
> One wrong move and you have distressed your bike $$$$$.





cyclingday said:


> I know, that this will sound crazy, but I rode my 37 Bluebird on a single track trail at night, up in Yosemite National Park.
> Some of the most fun I've had riding an old bike, and I can just about guarantee that was the first time an Elgin Bluebird was ridden down that trail.
> These bikes were built incredibly strong. Hence the near 100 pound weight.



@Jarod24 rode mine whe he was here and has no complaints and he's a pretty big kid


----------



## redline1968

I rode mine at lucky lab awhile back when the canidans came down...noted the Speedo hole also serves as a beer can holder.. I’d let anyone who wanted to ride it ride it. It survived besides a few beer stains :0 and still solid and safe....


----------



## fordmike65

I rode @Velocipedist Co. BB at this year's Coasters Sears September ride. I felt like I was in the fetal position the entire time


----------



## Velocipedist Co.

fordmike65 said:


> I rode @Velocipedist Co. BB at this year's Coasters Sears September ride. I felt like I was in the fetal position the entire time




I wasn't going to mention it..  but it looked like my bike had just been stolen by a giant fetus


----------



## frampton

Super strong monocoque construction. Race car stuff. Wikipedia says:  A true _*monocoque*_ carries both tensile and compressive forces within the skin and can be recognized by the absence of a load carrying internal frame.


----------



## azbug-i

Velocipedist Co. said:


> I wasn't going to mention it..  but it looked like my bike had just been stolen by a giant fetus



Hahahahaha steve!!!!! 
Mike lets be real how many bikes actually fit you that are newer than 1915 and have a tall enough stand over height haha.


----------



## azbug-i

frampton said:


> Super strong monocoque construction. Race car stuff. Wikipedia says:  A true _*monocoque*_ carries both tensile and compressive forces within the skin and can be recognized by the absence of a load carrying internal frame.



This is early aircraft construction too. Early airframes were monocoque.


----------



## saladshooter

My wife better be a monocoque!


----------



## bikewhorder

New Mexico Brant said:


> Then please sell it to me!!


----------



## tesch

bikewhorder said:


> I haven't ridden mine yet but I suspect it will be like every pre war balloon tire bike I've ever ridden... miserable.



Agreed. Love and have a bunch of vintage bikes. I've ridden most of them. At 6'1" I find them terrible to ride. I'll take my carbon fiber road bike any day.


----------



## fordmike65

tesch said:


> Agreed. Love and have a bunch of vintage bikes. I've ridden most of them. At 6'1" I find them terrible to ride. I'll take my carbon fiber road bike any day.



Try 6'4" with a 34" inseam


Needless to say I suffer for the hobby.


----------



## redline1968

As you know fetus can’t ride,,,,or in some cases maybe they do...:0 ;0...000000


----------



## carlitos60

jkent said:


> It may not affect the ride but that doesn't mean that it doesn't effect the integrity (strength) of the frame.
> It would really tick me off to spend $10-$15K on a bike and ride it a couple times before the frame decides to give way.
> JKent




Love It, But Totally Agree,,,,,,And IF Fixed;;;Then IT Won't be Totally Unrestored Anymore!!!


----------



## Velocipedist Co.

carlitos60 said:


> Love It, But Totally Agree,,,,,,And IF Fixed;;;Then IT Won't be Totally Unrestored Anymore!!!




Well, I'm guessing that someone straightened out those stays after the wreck in order to make it rideable again.  Still original?  What is the difference between a poorly repaired chainstay and a correctly repaired one?

Btw, I'm more curious on general perception and not trying to force a point.


----------



## Velocipedist Co.

... in other words, would this example have been worth more if the previous owner did not already try to bend it back?


----------



## cyclingday

I'm not sure about the overall value, because these bikes seem to do well regardless of condition or originality.
But, it sure would've been nice if the original attempt to repair the damaged stays, would've been made by a more competent craftsman.


----------



## catfish

It's about to go to 11.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ELGIN-BLUE...497550?hash=item4d6591378e:g:as4AAOSwQ1hZ5rhN


----------



## Freqman1

Worth every penny! V/r Shawn


----------



## catfish

Freqman1 said:


> Worth every penny! V/r Shawn




And a lot more.


----------



## Bikermaniac

Too expensive for a $44.95 bike...


----------



## Balloonatic

I'm a hobbit at just under 5' 8", but I rode mine for the first time at the Cyclone Coasters Sears ride this year, and it rode just great! Smooth, solid, and nice geometry. If you're a big galoot (sorry fordmike) or lummox, yes, the bluebird will be cramped, but compared to my other vintage 30s & 50s ballooners, it's a great riding bike!


----------



## Balloonatic

Robertriley said:


> I was thinking 14,500ish.  I'd love to have it but it's not in the cards at this time.




That may even be a bit bullish Chris, the Jesse James bluebird only brought $13,800 + 200 shipping and did not have rear stay damage or repro fender ornament. After fees, the seller cleared less than $12,500.  The paint was slightly better too... don't get me wrong, this is a very nice bike, but for my money, and I'm not a player here by the way, to get past $12,500 I would want orig. fender ornament and no damage to the frame. Even though it's only the rear stays, the frame on that bike is totally unique and _*every*_ part of it is a focal point... it definitely dropped in value for me when I saw that damage. I missed the rear stays on first pass and was disappointed to see them.


----------



## Bikermaniac

Well it seems that the fight will be between 2 people: e***b(1687) from now on "McGregor" and d***v(885) from now on "Mayweather". 
Maywether has punch (outbid) McGregor 4 times in a row with "upper jabs" (automatic bidding), forcing McGregor to just run behind him trying to punch him back (outbid him) without success.
It seems that Mayweather is taking the lead with countless jabs to the chin (outbidding him once and once again) but McGregor could hit him back (outbid him) with the winning punch in the last  minute of the fight (win the auction).
When the fight (auction) is over, both fighters will be all beat up (expending a lot of cash) and one of them will receive the Championship Belt (the BB). Does the Championship Belt (the BB) worth the beating? some say yes, some will say no. You decide. Ding - Ding.


----------



## Velocipedist Co.

Is this the J. James bike?


----------



## Balloonatic

Yes, that's the one. It was the best original BB I have seen to this point. Thanks for posting, it's nice to see it again. 

The seller on the Ebay bike doesn't say weather the ornament is original, and I suspect it's not. There is also no mention of the door? I presume it's orig. but the seller doesn't say either way.


----------



## scrubbinrims

The Jesse James Bike was 10+ years ago correct...I guess we''ll see what a decent original is worth today?
That's the best original known to my knowledge and I think it went low, maybe about timing.  It's hard to make assessments on the non-carcass, OP bluebirds because they don't come up for sale often.
I also wonder about the fender ornament.
Chris


----------



## Clark58mx

These are interesting bikes. There is a Maroon Bluebird only 3 miles from me. Nice looking bike in person.


----------



## Robertriley

Balloonatic said:


> That may even be a bit bullish Chris, the Jesse James bluebird only brought $13,800 + 200 shipping and did not have rear stay damage or repro fender ornament. After fees, the seller cleared less than $12,500.  The paint was slightly better too... don't get me wrong, this is a very nice bike, but for my money, and I'm not a player here by the way, to get past $12,500 I would want orig. fender ornament and no damage to the frame. Even though it's only the rear stays, the frame on that bike is totally unique and _*every*_ part of it is a focal point... it definitely dropped in value for me when I saw that damage. I missed the rear stays on first pass and was disappointed to see them.



I was thinking 14500 before I saw the damage in the rear but I still think it has a chance.  I still think it will end up between 12500 and 14500


----------



## Balloonatic

Bikermaniac said:


> Well it seems that the fight will be between 2 people: e***b(1687) from now on "McGregor" and d***v(885) from now on "Mayweather".



Don't be so sure, @Bikermaniac, stealthy bidders who often haven't shown their hand at all on the bid sheet previously will suddenly pop up in the last 2 or 3 seconds to beat all who were busy d*ck-slappin' each other during the days of the auction, continually outbidding each other by $5 just to see their name as high bidder, only to lose in the end. It will be a nail biter for sure, but my experience in 20 years on the 'bay is sometimes neither of the two fighting it out at the top of the bid list will win.... and the bike still hasn't met reserve?!


----------



## Balloonatic

scrubbinrims said:


> The Jesse James Bike was 10+ years ago correct...I guess we''ll see what a decent original is worth today?



Yes.... for sure, and there's just no telling - we all know something is only worth what the buyer is willing to pay at any given moment. I watch ebay and the market in general daily as I deal in vintage collectibles full time. Pricing something properly is the hardest thing to do. I have watched the collectibles and car markets daily for the last couple of decades; today's market is the lowest I have seen it in quite some time. This is my selling season, between now and tax time in April and I'm seeing valuable items sell for 2/3rds what they have been selling for in past years. The Jesse James BB actually sold in 2010, only 7 years ago, that's just after the great recession in '08... I would say the market was about the same or a little better then than now. Liquidity in the market today is very low; don't be surprised if this bike is a no-sale that doesn't hit reserve, although I'd certainly like it to ring the bell and be a high benchmark for value of *my* original bluebird!

If this one does sell for crazy money, you might likely see another phenomenon take place... more original paint bluebirds will come out of the woodwork at similar or higher prices! I have seen it happen with rare vintage cars, wristwatches, toy robots... it's always a surprise, but happens with regularity when something rare fetches a really high price.


----------



## catfish

Balloonatic said:


> Y  The Jesse James BB actually sold in 2010, only 7 years ago, that's just after the great recession in '08... I would say the market was about the same or a little better then than now. Liquidity in the market today is very low; don't be surprised if this bike is a no-sale that doesn't hit reserve, although I'd certainly like it to ring the bell and be a high benchmark for value of *my* original bluebird!
> 
> If this one does sell for crazy money, you might likely see another phenomenon take place... more original paint bluebirds will come out of the woodwork at similar or higher prices! I have seen it happen with rare vintage cars, wristwatches, toy robots... it's always a surprise, but happens with regularity when something rare fetches a really high price.




For years I waited to see Jesse ride the BB on his tv show. That would have brought out a lot of BBs 10 years ago. Or at least got more people interested in old bikes. Jesse had an impressive collection of bicycles for a while. He even had one guy working at his shop who was mostly there to help with his bikes. But that was long before the bombshell dropped..... And he closed West Coast Choppers. If he just showed the bike once!!! But no such luck.


----------



## scrubbinrims

I believe Larkin sold that bluebird directly to him for a whole lot more, may have included a skylark as well... that auction was JJ's liquidation via ebay.
Not sure which to better attribute the value to, but nonetheless, I'd like to see this go 10 rounds.
Chris


----------



## catfish

scrubbinrims said:


> I believe Larkin sold that bluebird directly to him for a whole lot more, may have included a skylark as well... that auction was JJ's liquidation via ebay.
> Not sure which to better attribute the value to, but nonetheless, I'd like to see this go 10 rounds.
> Chris





Larkin sold Jesse the BB and Skylark as a package deal. But he was worried about taking a check because he didn't know who Jesse was. So we told him to turn on a TV and look him up in line.


----------



## bikewhorder

Its interesting that the JJ bike lacks the pencil stand and looks like an unmolested original. Does anyone know if these side stands are correct? 2010 was good time to be buying bikes.  Its easy to forget how unstable things felt then, especially for those of us who work in the trades that ebb and flow with the whims of the economy.


----------



## Saving Tempest

If you have 13 grand, it looks like the other one I saw is from Nickinator.


----------



## charnleybob

Balloonatic said:


> Yes.... for sure, and there's just no telling - we all know something is only worth what the buyer is willing to pay at any given moment. I watch ebay and the market in general daily as I deal in vintage collectibles full time. Pricing something properly is the hardest thing to do. I have watched the collectibles and car markets daily for the last couple of decades; today's market is the lowest I have seen it in quite some time. This is my selling season, between now and tax time in April and I'm seeing valuable items sell for 2/3rds what they have been selling for in past years. The Jesse James BB actually sold in 2010, only 7 years ago, that's just after the great recession in '08... I would say the market was about the same or a little better then than now. Liquidity in the market today is very low; don't be surprised if this bike is a no-sale that doesn't hit reserve, although I'd certainly like it to ring the bell and be a high benchmark for value of *my* original bluebird!
> 
> If this one does sell for crazy money, you might likely see another phenomenon take place... more original paint bluebirds will come out of the woodwork at similar or higher prices! I have seen it happen with rare vintage cars, wristwatches, toy robots... it's always a surprise, but happens with regularity when something rare fetches a really high price.






I agree.
If you look at collectible markers in general, certain segments are slowing down and are prices are heading south.
A lot of it is that millennials don't have the interest or the money to keep prices up.
(Not blaming millennials for anything!)
High dollar items will always have a value, but as my old fart generation disappears, the buyers won't be there.


----------



## bikewhorder

IDK, I feel like TOC safety prices are at an all time high and none of those buyers have a sentimental connection to them.  BB's are a safe investment. As long as the global economy is intact their value will only go up and up and up....


----------



## cyclingday

Elgin Bluebird prices have been pretty consistent since the 1990s, the problem is that the inflation rate of the dollar has eroded that considerably.
The old Classicfieds show Bluebird prices at or around $8,000- $12,000 dollars in the mid 90s.
That's just about where they are today.
But, how much goods and services would that $8,000 buy in 1990 compared with today?
It's still a hell of a lot of money for an old bicycle, but not nearly as much as it used to be.


----------



## Bikermaniac

This is an example of a BB sold for $5,500 in 2009. The prices have gone crazy these days, in my opinion due to speculation, what I mean by that is that people are buying them and spreading the narrative that they are the the best of the best, the epitome of an era, the zenith of design, bla, bla, bla, because that's what serves their purposes.
In my humble opinion, it's not the best of the best, it's not the epitome of an era, it's not the zenith of design whatsoever. There are bicycles out there way more beautiful and more rare and scarce than the BB. Real true jewels that are nor appreciated due to the "created necessity" that you have to own a BB to be a real big shot collector...far from it.
I'm not trying to offend anyone, or hurt anyone's feelings and if I did, I apologize to those offended by my comments. The only thing I want is to speak out my mind and express my personal point of view for other people to know a different narrative than what they are used to hear. 

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1...icycle-for-sale-pictures-inside-1-owner.5737/


----------



## kccomet

its hard to say where the bike market will be in say 20 years, most collectors are buying these high end bikes, maybe not so much as they are worth the money, but because they can. they have the cash flow. im not saying if you have money you have to be stupid with it, but to some people it really doesnt matter if something they want is 12000 or 15000, they dont care, they just want it. i think the bike in this post is getting pretty close to what its worth, thats just my opinion, but if my pockets were really deep, who cares im buying it. im to old to buy bikes as an investment, but i think if your somewhat young  and buy top original bikes there are worse ways to spend your money. there will be a lot of collections sold in the next 20 years as members age, but it has always been that way. ok after that long meaningless ramble, i love this bike, chainstays and all.... but as someone else posted just because you could doesnt mean you should


----------



## kccomet

collectors are a funny bunch bikermaniac, i get some of where your coming from, reading the show your bluebird post, some sound like an exotic car commercial, you know youve arrived, that said i think the owners are just proud and happy with their birds. i do think they are the zenith of design, i cant think of a more iconic bicycle, they look like art, but thats just my opinion. not everyone can afford a bluebird or many other high end bikes. you dont have to be a high roller to collect, ride and have fun in the bike hobby, thats the beauty of it


----------



## Freqman1

Bikermaniac said:


> This is an example of a BB sold for $5,500 in 2009. The prices have gone crazy these days, in my opinion due to speculation, what I mean by that is that people are buying them and spreading the narrative that they are the the best of the best, the epitome of an era, the zenith of design, bla, bla, bla, because that's what serves their purposes.
> In my humble opinion, it's not the best of the best, it's not the epitome of an era, it's not the zenith of design whatsoever. There are bicycles out there way more beautiful and more rare and scarce than the BB. Real true jewels that are nor appreciated due to the "created necessity" that you have to own a BB to be a real big shot collector...far from it.
> I'm not trying to offend anyone, or hurt anyone's feelings and if I did, I apologize to those offended by my comments. The only thing I want is to speak out my mind and express my personal point of view for other people to know a different narrative than what they are used to hear.
> 
> https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1...icycle-for-sale-pictures-inside-1-owner.5737/
> View attachment 697128




I'm not offended by your comments but I respectfully disagree with some of your main points e.g. epitome of an era and zenith of design. I guarantee if you ride one of these you will stop people in their tracks. Why? because the design is over the top and they do represent the zenith of streamline design and define the classic era of bicycles. Ask 100 collectors of classic American bicycles to name their top five on a wish list and I bet at least 90% put a BB in the mix. THIS is what drives the price--demand not speculation. Yep they aren't particularly rare compared to some other bikes but people want one for their design. I don't view bicycle collecting as a competition although there are some that do. I've had people look at my collection and point out the absence of some bikes such as the Evinrude and 24" Monarks (Wing Bar and Flocycle). These bikes will never be in my collection because I don't like them. V/r Shawn


----------



## fordmike65

Bikermaniac said:


> This is an example of a BB sold for $5,500 in 2009. The prices have gone crazy these days, in my opinion due to speculation, what I mean by that is that people are buying them and spreading the narrative that they are the the best of the best, the epitome of an era, the zenith of design, bla, bla, bla, because that's what serves their purposes.
> In my humble opinion, it's not the best of the best, it's not the epitome of an era, it's not the zenith of design whatsoever. There are bicycles out there way more beautiful and more rare and scarce than the BB. Real true jewels that are nor appreciated due to the "created necessity" that you have to own a BB to be a real big shot collector...far from it.
> I'm not trying to offend anyone, or hurt anyone's feelings and if I did, I apologize to those offended by my comments. The only thing I want is to speak out my mind and express my personal point of view for other people to know a different narrative than what they are used to hear.
> 
> https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1...icycle-for-sale-pictures-inside-1-owner.5737/
> View attachment 697128



I don't believe this bike is an accurate gauge on what these bikes were worth back then. As you can see, a collector snatched it up almost instantly. That alone should be a sign that it was listed cheap. Also, the seller was himself was not a collector, and most likely didn't really know what he had.


----------



## Bikermaniac

Freqman1 said:


> I'm not offended by your comments but I respectfully disagree with some of your main points e.g. epitome of an era and zenith of design. I guarantee if you ride one of these you will stop people in their tracks. Why? because the design is over the top and they do represent the zenith of streamline design and define the classic era of bicycles. Ask 100 collectors of classic American bicycles to name their top five on a wish list and I bet at least 90% put a BB in the mix. THIS is what drives the price--demand not speculation. Yep they aren't particularly rare compared to some other bikes but people want one for their design. I don't view bicycle collecting as a competition although there are some that do. I've had people look at my collection and point out the absence of some bikes such as the Evinrude and 24" Monarks (Wing Bar and Flocycle). These bikes will never be in my collection because I don't like them. V/r Shawn




Shawn thanks for your comments, I appreciate and respect them. I would rather have a Evinrude than a Bluebird (in fact I tried to buy the Evinrude from France but Steve outbid me in the last second). As you well put it, I don't have a Bluebird in my collection because I don't like it. I was tempted to buy not long ago but I gave it a second thought and just passed on it.


----------



## catfish

These bikes are high up there on the collectors scale. And they cross over into other hobbies too. I know a bunch of car collectors who have bluebirds. They only have them as a status symbol, because they are high end bikes. Most of the time when bluebirds change hands, it is in private. Not always in a public forum like the CABE or ebay. Or even Copake. If you really want one, you just need to have the cash, and step up. They are out there. Are they rare? I don't think so. Are they the rarest bike in the hobby? Not by a long shot. Are they cool? YES !!! But they are not every ones cup of tea. Just my two cents....


----------



## fordmike65

catfish said:


> These bikes are high up there on the collectors scale. And they cross over into other hobbies too. I know a bunch of car collectors who have bluebirds. They only have them as a status symbol, because they are high end bikes. Most of the time when bluebirds change hands, it is in private. No always in a public forum like the CABE or ebay. Or even Copake. If you really want one, you just need to have the cash, and step up. They are out there. Are they rare? I don't think so. Are they the rarest bike in the hobby? Not by a long shot. Are they cool? YES !!! But they are not every ones cup of tea. Just my two cents....



Well put Ed.


----------



## Bikermaniac

fordmike65 said:


> I don't believe this bike is an accurate gauge on what these bikes were worth back then. As you can see, a collector snatched it up almost instantly. That alone should be a sign that it was listed cheap. Also, the seller was himself was not a collector, and most likely didn't really know what he had.




Thanks for your comments Mike, I appreciate them.


----------



## Freqman1

catfish said:


> These bikes are high up there on the collectors scale. And they cross over into other hobbies too. I know a bunch of car collectors who have bluebirds. They only have them as a status symbol, because they are high end bikes. Most of the time when bluebirds change hands, it is in private. Not always in a public forum like the CABE or ebay. Or even Copake. If you really want one, you just need to have the cash, and step up. They are out there. Are they rare? I don't think so. Are they the rarest bike in the hobby? Not by a long shot. Are they cool? YES !!! But they are not every ones cup of tea. Just my two cents....




You make a good point Ed. A lot of high end bikes never see a public venue. I acquired both of my Bluebirds via personal communications--neither were advertised for sale. I've acquired a lot of my other bikes the same way. The way you find out about these bikes is through building relationships and developing trust and respect with others. V/r Shawn


----------



## Bikermaniac

Yes there are several hi-end bikes out there that change hands in private. I know that because I bought mines in private. 
Regarding cross over hobbies, I also collect hi-end watches, and for me the Bluebird is like a Rolex, a very good watch but too many of them out there to make them really desirable (for the money they ask) to me. I rather buy a Panerai Luminor Marina than a Rolex. But well that's what collecting is all about, isn't it? you buy what you want. But as I said before, I respect everybody's opinion.


----------



## bikewhorder

Bikermaniac said:


> This is an example of a BB sold for $5,500 in 2009. The prices have gone crazy these days, in my opinion due to speculation, what I mean by that is that people are buying them and spreading the narrative that they are the the best of the best, the epitome of an era, the zenith of design, bla, bla, bla, because that's what serves their purposes.
> In my humble opinion, it's not the best of the best, it's not the epitome of an era, it's not the zenith of design whatsoever. There are bicycles out there way more beautiful and more rare and scarce than the BB. Real true jewels that are nor appreciated due to the "created necessity" that you have to own a BB to be a real big shot collector...far from it.
> I'm not trying to offend anyone, or hurt anyone's feelings and if I did, I apologize to those offended by my comments. The only thing I want is to speak out my mind and express my personal point of view for other people to know a different narrative than what they are used to hear.
> 
> https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1...icycle-for-sale-pictures-inside-1-owner.5737/
> View attachment 697128



Spoken like a true non Bluebird owner. I'm sure if you had one you'd be singing a different tune. It's funny how these bike bashing comments pop up on here from time to time and it's always the people who don't have a certain bike that are putting down the bike in question.


----------



## Bikermaniac

bikewhorder said:


> Spoken like a true non Bluebird owner. I'm sure if you had one you'd be singing a different tune. It's funny how these bike bashing comments pop up on here from time to time and it's always the people who don't have a certain bike that are putting down the bike in question.




You're 100% correct, I don't own one; I thought of buying one not long ago but I passed on it after serious consideration on its real value/price relation. 
In the other hand you're wrong, I'm not bashing the bike I'm just putting the things in a different perspective. You value the bikes in one way, I value the bikes in a different way. I'm not interested in the bike for several reasons, one of them, as I said before, I do not consider it's the ultimate treasure not the rarest nor the scarcest not the most beautiful bike for the price tag it has on it. Plain and simple.
But as I said in several occasions, I respect your point of view. Thanks for sharing it.


----------



## Robertriley

Well, I really don't need to say much.  Ed, Shawn, Mike and Bikewhorder summed it up well and I agree with them.  Bikermaniac, we all have our opinions but there are very few bikes from the era that can compete with the design of the Bluebird.  The Evinrude is another great example of an amazing bike from that era.  I think what keeps the BB up there it is "the epitome of an era, the zenith of design" and that fact they are rare but also common enough for collectors to obtain. They are kind of a perfect storm, rare but obtainable, and one of the truly unique designs of it's time.


----------



## Bikermaniac

Chris I do think the bluebird a very nice example of an era, I really do; not the rarest, not the best design (in my pinion), but it's nice example to own. But that's not my point, my point is (I thought I made it clear), that I consider the bike is over rated, thus over priced. 
As I said before I rather pay big cash for another bike (like the Evinrude for example) than for a Bluebird.
I don't know why that's so difficult to swallow.


----------



## Robertriley

Bikermaniac said:


> Chris I do think the bluebird a very nice example of an era, I really do; not the rarest, not the best design (in my pinion), but it's nice example to own. But that's not my point, my point is (I thought I made it clear), that I consider the bike is over rated, thus over priced.
> As I said before I rather pay big cash for another bike (like the Evinrude for example) than for a Bluebird.
> I don't know why that's so difficult to swallow.



Not had to swallow brother.  You are entitled to your opinion, we just agree to disagree.  It's not your cup of tea just like a lot of Schwinns don't really jump off the page for me.  I hope you don't find this hard to swallow.


----------



## Velocipedist Co.

one more over rated bike on ebay 

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=322846431382


----------



## bobcycles

Freqman1 said:


> I'm not offended by your comments but I respectfully disagree with some of your main points e.g. epitome of an era and zenith of design. I guarantee if you ride one of these you will stop people in their tracks. Why? because the design is over the top and they do represent the zenith of streamline design and define the classic era of bicycles. Ask 100 collectors of classic American bicycles to name their top five on a wish list and I bet at least 90% put a BB in the mix. THIS is what drives the price--demand not speculation. Yep they aren't particularly rare compared to some other bikes but people want one for their design. I don't view bicycle collecting as a competition although there are some that do. I've had people look at my collection and point out the absence of some bikes such as the Evinrude and 24" Monarks (Wing Bar and Flocycle). These bikes will never be in my collection because I don't like them. V/r Shawn





EXACTLY!  I'm no huge Elgin fan but I must admit the bicycles that company produced from 1936 to war-time were exactly that totally radical art deco machines
  Epitome of design at the time and really pushing the envelope regarding what can happen on 2 wheels.
for an era coming out of the depression where every bicycle basically looked the same.  And ?  They are extremely rare indeed....how many are out there?  Maybe 100?  Who knows..
I'd love to see a bicycle like a blue bird fetch 50K.  There are plenty of collectibles that are not that rare that bring insane money.  Some people collect strictly to invest and some to enjoy.


----------



## bikewhorder

Bikermaniac said:


> Chris I do think the bluebird a very nice example of an era, I really do; not the rarest, not the best design (in my pinion), but it's nice example to own. But that's not my point, my point is (I thought I made it clear), that I consider the bike is over rated, thus over priced.
> As I said before I rather pay big cash for another bike (like the Evinrude for example) than for a Bluebird.
> I don't know why that's so difficult to swallow.



It's not that it's a difficult pill to swallow it's just pointless to argue which bike is more desirable and/or overrated. I mean I could go off about what a hideous Abomination the Evinrude is but I won't because I've done it in the past and it's a waste of virtual ink. You're not going to change anyone's mind your just going to ruffle some feathers and it gets you nowhere in the end.


----------



## Bikermaniac

Robertriley said:


> Not had to swallow brother.  You are entitled to your opinion, we just agree to disagree.  It's not your cup of tea just like a lot of Schwinns don't really jump off the page for me.  I hope you don't find this hard to swallow.




I agree with you. Not not at all, everybody knows I'm not a Schwinn fan neither.


----------



## Bikermaniac

bikewhorder said:


> It's not that it's a difficult pill to swallow it's just pointless to argue which bike is more desirable and/or overrated. I mean I could go off about what a hideous Abomination the Evinrude is but I won't because I've done it in the past and it's a waste of virtual ink. You're not going to change anyone's mind your just going to ruffle some feathers and it gets you nowhere in the end.




That is correct Bikewhorder, everybody has his own opinion on what bikes is better. I do not pretend to change anyone's opinion just to express mine.


----------



## Bikermaniac

Velocipedist Co. said:


> one more over rated bike on ebay
> 
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/322846431382?_mwBanner=1
> 
> 
> View attachment 697368




Why are you selling it Steve? I saw the time and effort you put into it. And that patina...a true work of art. That's a shame...


----------



## Freqman1

Bikermaniac said:


> Why are you selling it Steve? I saw the time and effort you put into it. And that patina...a true work of art. That's a shame...



Maybe he's upgrading! V/r Shawn


----------



## carlitos60

Bikermaniac said:


> Why are you selling it Steve? I saw the time and effort you put into it. And that patina...a true work of art. That's a shame...




For Sure, I Think He Has the Upper Hand,,,,,Cause, He Did the Work Himself!!!!


----------



## Balloonatic

Bikermaniac said:


> The prices have gone crazy these days, in my opinion due to speculation, what I mean by that is that people are buying them and spreading the narrative that they are the the best of the best, the epitome of an era, the zenith of design, bla, bla, bla, because that's what serves their purposes.
> In my humble opinion, it's not the best of the best, it's not the epitome of an era, it's not the zenith of design whatsoever. There are bicycles out there way more beautiful and more rare and scarce than the BB. Real true jewels that are nor appreciated due to the "created necessity" that you have to own a BB to be a real big shot collector...far from it.




Speculation does not drive the market on Elgin Bluebirds. That's an absurd notion that guys are out there slinging thousands of dollars around to own a bike, then "spreading the narrative that they are the best of the best" only to hope to sell them at a massive profit... REALLY? What drives any market, especially for rare or scarce antique/vintage items is simply desire and _*supply and demand*_. Speculators get burned quite often which is why you only see them in housing or the stock markets. Few if any folks _speculate_ on Elgin Bluebirds. 

I'm a watch collector too; comparing Bluebirds to Rolexes vs. Panerai is completely backwards. If you want to make that comparison, consider the Schwinn Aerocycle as the Rolex, and the Elgin Bluebird as the Panerai, or Patek, or more accurately the asymmetrical Hamilton Electrics. Schwinn was marketed much like Rolex, with great fanfare and bravado, and is considered in the market today as the gold standard when really it's not, it's just a really well marketed name of status... the Elgin Bluebird was far from that. If anything, I see folks speculating on the Aerocycle much more so than the bluebird because they know, like a vintage Chevy, the vast number of people are going to know and want it... many, many more people know the name Schwinn than do Elgin. Many, many more folks know the name Rolex vs. Patek or Panerai, and many more know Chevy more than Hupmobile... see my point?

I absolutely LOVE art deco; cars, radios, fans, toasters, clocks and watches, advertising... hell I even love an art deco door knob. When I first laid eyes on the '35 bluebird I lost my mind. I already loved vintage bikes, but this was art on wheels! It was a true cross collectible to me. I also really like original examples of vintage stuff; cars with orig. factory paint, and I like to see wear and patina, so I set out over 30 years ago to find an original bluebird, and it took me that long to find one, especially one I could afford. I bought it because I absolutely love it... I don't really care if others love it like I do, doesn't matter to me at all, I only bought it for ME. 

I did not buy it thinking it was an _investment_, nor did I expect to make a profit selling it, I only bought it to put in my living room and look at, and maybe ride once in a while. Do I like it when I see original examples sell for lots of money? Sure! But I was NOT motivated to buy the bike by money, nor do I think many others are. Then again, if I came across _another_ bluebird at a great price, would I consider buying it and either upgrading my existing example, or selling it to make a profit? Hells Yes! 

"Crazy" prices are simply a reflection of the desirability of a particular item; just because you cannot afford it doesn't mean it's a crazy price, it just means it's crazy _to you_. @Bikermaniac, clearly you have been watching this thread with great interest, and contributing regularly... it's curious to me how vehemently you decry the bluebird's "best of the best" reputation here, yet continue to be so involved in the conversation? Why even comment on or watch a thread for a bike you feel is overrated? Why expend so much energy and interest? Thou dost protest too much, methinks. It's like having a crush on a girl, but she wants to have nothing to do with you, so you tell everyone what a dog she is.... it's OK to lust after a bluebird, or to think it unique, beautiful or that typifies, (nee singularly defines) an era of design, you don't need to denigrate it just because you don't have one, and are not willing to spend the dough it takes to get one.


----------



## Velocipedist Co.

View attachment 697366


Bikermaniac said:


> Why are you selling it Steve? I saw the time and effort you put into it. And that patina...a true work of art. That's a shame...




Thanks!
My decision to sell was not an impulsive one.  I had my fun with it and I've enjoyed the feedback. But after some careful thought, I am really looking forward to passing it along for someone else to enjoy, and raising some much needed cash.  The timing was calculated as well.  My initial thought was that I'd potentially dilute the market and take a hit to my hammer price.  But then I considered the fact that there are 13 participating bidders for the moment on the og bike and only one will have the winning bid.  That leaves 12 other potential buyers for my bike.  Maybe I have it all wrong, and I am speculating a bit, but I'm on the logic that the demand for these bikes can easily absorb the presence of one more listing.

 Also, I just bought another Bluebird


----------



## Velocipedist Co.

Here's its replacement!!


----------



## Freqman1

Velocipedist Co. said:


> Here's its replacement!!
> View attachment 697854




Do we get to see the rest of it? V/r Shawn


----------



## Bikermaniac

Velocipedist Co. said:


> Here's its replacement!!
> View attachment 697854




I knew it...


----------



## Balloonatic

@Velocipedist Co., I suspect part, or most of the fun was _*creating*_ that bike to look the way you wanted it to. I can see why you would move it along to do other projects... like a good art piece, or project, the fun is in the journey! Thank you for documenting it and sharing it with us all.

I for one really enjoyed seeing it go from being a beat up hulk to a true thing of beauty. And how great that someone will get to ride it and not worry they are going to damage original paint/patina, yet still get the joy of having that flavor. That bike now has your signature all over it, and has provenance... you created something quite beautiful and desirable from nothing... and I think we all respect that.


----------



## redline1968

Bikermaniac said:


> This is an example of a BB sold for $5,500 in 2009. The prices have gone crazy these days, in my opinion due to speculation, what I mean by that is that people are buying them and spreading the narrative that they are the the best of the best, the epitome of an era, the zenith of design, bla, bla, bla, because that's what serves their purposes.
> In my humble opinion, it's not the best of the best, it's not the epitome of an era, it's not the zenith of design whatsoever. There are bicycles out there way more beautiful and more rare and scarce than the BB. Real true jewels that are nor appreciated due to the "created necessity" that you have to own a BB to be a real big shot collector...far from it.
> I'm not trying to offend anyone, or hurt anyone's feelings and if I did, I apologize to those offended by my comments. The only thing I want is to speak out my mind and express my personal point of view for other people to know a different narrative than what they are used to hear.
> 
> https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1...icycle-for-sale-pictures-inside-1-owner.5737/
> View attachment 697128



When I saw this I was slightly stunned.. that’s my bike... it  sold in a few minutes to Arron.. the sold to a friend of mine for more then i got it.  I bought it because of the amazing work of art it represents not the value...when I look at one it just screams buy me... it’s one bike I have no regrets purchasing if it goes up great if not I still enjoy..


----------



## Phattiremike

Curious but any thoughts on with this 3rd BB out there will that effect where the original BB could have ended at?  Initially here was much talk about hoping it would go the distance just to see what an original would bring at this time.


----------



## Freqman1

Phattiremike said:


> Curious but any thoughts on with this 3rd BB out there will that effect where the original BB could have ended at?  Initially here was much talk about hoping it would go the distance just to see what an original would bring at this time.




I don't think it will have much impact. These three bikes fall into distinctly different categories and I think each will reflect the market for its niche. V/r Shawn


----------



## tripple3

not too often you get choices of which Bluebird do I *Really* want....
This one rides nice! patina restoration.... I'm not bidding.


----------



## scrubbinrims

I actually think Velocipedist's and Mark's bike will compete with each other a bit because they are both enjoy "as is" bikes.
I'd think some suiters will drop out of the original bb when they may have extended their budget otherwise and go for the patina resto.
This model is so desirable, I'm not sure that it's clear that people will only bid on what they'd prefer/accept, but what's available.
Chris


----------



## OldSkipTooth

The bluebird is Streamline Moderne...NOT Art Deco. Deco died by the late 1920's.


----------



## Bikermaniac

Will this auction be ended 12 hrs before ending?


----------



## Balloonatic

OldSkipTooth said:


> The bluebird is Streamline Moderne...NOT Art Deco. Deco died by the late 1920's.




Good observation... and _technically_ true... sort of; the difference between the two is not so stark, the lines separating them are quite fuzzy. The term "deco" or "art deco" has morphed and changed to mean different things inclusive of streamline moderne, Zig-zag deco, cubist moderne, etc but I would hardly say art deco as a whole was _*dead*_ by the late 20s, it's too hard to define really with all the variations. The term Art Deco is a pastiche or umbrella term to cover many different styles, to me it doesn't denote a defined or specific style. But you're right, technically, the Bluebird is streamline moderne, which itself falls under the broader heading of art deco.

So nice to know we have serious bike geeks, and serious design geeks here on the CABE!


----------



## OldSkipTooth

Asked of Charles Eames once: What are the limits of design? His answer: What are the limits of problems?


----------



## Balloonatic

Love that quote, and approach.


----------



## Balloonatic

Paul Jaray once said: "Who you callin' a blimp?!"


----------



## fordmike65

:eek:


----------



## Velocipedist Co.

Thats it??


----------



## cyclingday

Great auction and discussion.
Congrats to the buyer and seller.


----------



## fordmike65

Damn I wish I had one of these to sell


----------



## Bikermaniac

Well there you have it guys, $12 big ones for the seller for a complete and original paint bike. 
What does that puts the other non-complete non-original paint bikes $6, $7, $8? From now on, you have a base price and you decide what you want to pay for your next bb.


----------



## Velocipedist Co.

Bikermaniac said:


> Well there you have it guys, $12 big ones for the seller for a complete and original paint bike.
> What does that puts the other non-complete non-original paint bikes $6, $7, $8? From now on, you have a base price and you decide what you want to pay for your next bb.




It wasn't 12 big ones for the buyer :/


----------



## Balloonatic

Well bought and well sold I think! Congrats buyer and seller!

It will be interesting to see how the other two bikes go, but I would say a baseline for just about any complete bluebird, even with some repro parts is $10K but we'll see if the market rewards the  fabulous rideable custom artwork of the V. Co, or the basic bike.. or both. Frankly I don't know anyone else with the skill to pull off what Steve did with his patina bike... I can't begin to imagine the hours and hours he has into it. It's completely badd-ass in person too, *anyone *would be proud to own it. (I would want it autographed for myself)... it's the best 'crustoration' I have even seen, or may ever see especially on a bike that everyone (except for bikermaniac) has on their list of the very top bikes.


----------



## Robertriley

Bikermaniac said:


> Well there you have it guys, $12 big ones for the seller for a complete and original paint bike.
> What does that puts the other non-complete non-original paint bikes $6, $7, $8? From now on, you have a base price and you decide what you want to pay for your next bb.



I really think he would of cracked $15k if it wasn't for the rear damage.  Steve's is at $9k with about 3 days left, no OG paint (but looks great) with a regular seat on it.  I think his, once it cracks $10k, is more of an impressive feat.  I have seen restored BB sell for $14k, I think Ethan's sold for around there if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## azbug-i

I definitely figured 14k realm. Sweet bike for sure. I agree with justin. And steves bb is the next best thing to an original! Very next best! Many desirable qualities. Wish i was in the market!


----------



## azbug-i

I mean i thought 12.5k might be the number when it first got listed and had it been on the cabe i think 12.5 would have been around right. But ebay always has the possibility of pushing 10 to 15% more. Great for the seller though! And the buyer im sure will be happy. Too bad ebay scores so much in fees.


----------



## oskisan

What is the actual realized value of the OG Bluebird? I believe so many of these bikes change hands outside of auction that you may not be able to truly gauge the value by this one ebay auction. The seller ended up walking away with approx. $11,480 after Ebay and Paypal fees and he may have done much better selling outright for cash. I think the initial assessment of $12,500 was pretty accurate and $13,500? for one without the damage to the rear stays... I know there were a lot of Bluebird owners watching this auction in anticipation of a high $$ benchmark.  Your thoughts???


----------



## Robertriley

oskisan said:


> What is the actual realized value of the OG Bluebird? I believe so many of these bikes change hands outside of auction that you may not be able to truly gauge the value by this one ebay auction. The seller ended up walking away with approx. $11,480 after Ebay and Paypal fees and he may have done much better selling outright for cash. I think the initial assessment of $12,500 was pretty accurate and $13,500? for one without the damage to the rear stays... I know there were a lot of Bluebird owners watching this auction in anticipation of a high $$ benchmark.  Your thoughts???



The realized value was $14000.  A non damaged one would be $1000 more is my guess.


----------



## azbug-i

I think 14k to 15k is higher than most people would think. Especially talking to someone out east. Id consider that a socal price hahaha


----------



## azbug-i

I think he came out just above 12k after ebay fees and paypal fees. I think it would have sold for 12.5k on here easily though. Its just the gamble you take on ebay.


----------



## Velocipedist Co.

I don't think last night's Bluebird sold for $14,000 because the buyer factored in the seller's costs. Instead, I think last night's Bluebird sold for $14,000 because it was worth a minimum of $14,000 to that buyer


----------



## Velocipedist Co.

Maybe I have it all wrong, but I thought all value is perceived, and realized-value specifically pertains to the seller in the form of a net figure after associated costs.  So when we, as potential buyers, begin to discuss value on these bikes, I'm assuming we should be comparing final sale prices and not figures that include selling costs?

In other words:
When I visit a trendy hipster restaurant to buy a burger (or beer), that burger (or beer) is worth to me the $14 listed on the menu. But if I discover that my burger (or beer) each nets the restaurant $10, I would not expect to buy my next burger (or beer) at their $10 dollar realized-value. And if it was a good burger (or beer), I would likely return for another, ready to pay the initial $14 dollars. 

But if it were happy hour, my perceived value for each drops to about half for some reason, and I'm going to expect free chips as well.

Now add three zeros behind each of those hypothetical dollar figures, and change the term burger (or beer) to bluebird.  Assuming the bluebird had an initial cost to the seller of $0 when he (or she) acquired it, the example should loosely parallel the example that sold last night on ebay.

My conclusion is that unless its happy hour, I expect to pay current trending prices for a bluebird.
And if I am trying to sell one, I will expect to lose a little on the deal when I elect to use a premium selling tool like ebay.


----------



## Robertriley

Velocipedist Co. said:


> I don't think last night's Bluebird sold for $14,000 because the buyer factored in the seller's costs. Instead, I think last night's Bluebird sold for $14,000 because it was worth a minimum of $14,000 to that buyer



Funny, I was thinking the same thing.  People seem to be putting the value at what the seller received after fees.  The realized value is what someone paid for the object.  The ebay Bluebird is a $14000 bike, the proof is right there.


----------



## azbug-i

No im not saying that. I think the bike was worth 14k to the buyer and something is worth what someone will pay. Im saying ebay often yields more money than a smaller market like a forum. But im also saying had it not sold on ebay someone on the cabe or just private party in general might have gotten it for 12.5k. 

A selling price def dictates value. Not an amount after fees. But as a seller we all consider fees in what we would like to take home. 

Aside from this bb i think its fair to say prices of bikes vary from east coast to west coast.


----------



## azbug-i

i think anyone selling Something highly Valuable often seeks a wide Audience Auction setting, the seller is aware theyll pay fees in return, and that setting also Often comes at a higher cost to buyers too and they know it but they pay what it takes to get said item from that marketplace. Not saying that its a bad thing. Just the way it is. And auction prices Definitely prove value.


----------



## Velocipedist Co.

azbug-i said:


> No im not saying that. I think the bike was worth 14k to the buyer and something is worth what someone will pay. Im saying ebay often yields more money than a smaller market like a forum. But im also saying had it not sold on ebay someone on the cabe or just private party in general might have gotten it for 12.5k.
> 
> A selling price def dictates value. Not an amount after fees. But as a seller we all consider fees in what we would like to take home.
> 
> Aside from this bb i think its fair to say prices of bikes vary from east coast to west coast.




Ya, makes sense to me, totally!  Sorry for my confusing post, but my comment was aimed more at the "...$12 big ones...$6,$7,$8" comment


----------



## azbug-i

Oh gotcha steve. No worries 

I definitely think some bike values turn out to be relative to others too. 

I think by nature we also often will just give someone a better deal if we can avoid ebay haha


----------



## Freqman1

This thread kinda reminds me of what hot rodders call 'bench racing'. This is where you sit around and tell stories about how fast a car is (the more beer, the faster it was) without ever having been on a track. The buyer and seller reached a mutually agreeable price. If you never get on the track you'll never know how fast (or how much it costs)! V/r Shawn


----------



## cyclingday

I personally think, this bike is one of the best original paint Elgin Bluebirds in the hobby.
Unfortunately, it has sustained some damage, but miraculously, the paint still survived very well.
It either is what it is, and you embrace it for the way it is, or you repair it.
I think in the right hands, the repair can be made with minimal impact on the rest of the frame.
Fortunately, the damaged portion is probably one of the least noticed parts of the frame.
With all there is to see on an Bluebird, who really zero's in on the chainstay.
I say fix it if it bothers you and make us all regret that we didn't buy that magnificent Elgin Bluebird.


----------



## azbug-i

Its a magnificent bike for sure. The chainstay damage is Way less of an eye sore than a really messed up forward section.  Now lets see what goes on with steves amazing bb on ebay!


----------



## Bikermaniac

azbug-i said:


> I mean i thought 12.5k might be the number when it first got listed and had it been on the cabe i think 12.5 would have been around right. But ebay always has the possibility of pushing 10 to 15% more. Great for the seller though! And the buyer im sure will be happy. Too bad ebay scores so much in fees.




I couldn't agree more.


----------



## Bikermaniac

azbug-i said:


> I think he came out just above 12k after ebay fees and paypal fees. I think it would have sold for 12.5k on here easily though. Its just the gamble you take on ebay.




Agree again. The additional $2K the buyer paid on ebay, I would say it's the price of "peace of mind" on this transaction. In the other hand the additional $2k the seller paid to ebay as fees are for additional exposure to a bigger market. At the end of the road he got trough ebay the same that he would've gotten in thecabe, maybe a little less.


----------



## Velocipedist Co.

Freqman1 said:


> Do we get to see the rest of it? V/r Shawn


----------



## scrubbinrims

If I were to sell my bluebird, I wouldn't go through ebay with paypal, buyer protected disputes, and shipping risk.
Only showing up with cash and rolling it off my property or Copake where there is the visibility without the above to contend with (yes, there is the juice, but I'd be more confident the deal would be consummated).
Chris


----------



## azbug-i

Certainly a more comfortable way to sell. I agree


----------



## Velocipedist Co.

scrubbinrims said:


> If I were to sell my bluebird, I wouldn't go through ebay with paypal, buyer protected disputes, and shipping risk.
> Only showing up with cash and rolling it off my property or Copake where there is the visibility without the above to contend with (yes, there is the juice, but I'd be more confident the deal would be consummated).
> Chris




I definitely stress when I've got an item up on ebay.  I have no control over plenty of factors.. going to keep my fingers crossed for a smooth deal.


----------



## Bikermaniac

Velocipedist Co. said:


> View attachment 700296 View attachment 700297




Wow congrats Steve. It looks pretty complete.


----------



## bobcycles

Velocipedist Co. said:


> View attachment 700296 View attachment 700297




eBay is a great "visibility" platform, that is for certain.  The last 4 restored bikes I sold on eBay were all BIN listings...
and were sold for the asking price OFF eBay....contacted directly by the bidders.  Go figger!


----------



## Balloonatic

_"Funny, I was thinking the same thing. People seem to be putting the value at what the seller received after fees. The realized value is what someone paid for the object. The ebay Bluebird is a $14000 bike, the proof is right there._

Yes, precisely... someone was willing to actually PAY $14K for that bluebird... what the seller paid for the bike himself does not matter, and what fees he paid to the sale venue also do not matter (for the purposes of this discussion anyway)... ONLY that someone was willing to step up with that amount to buy the bike... there is your true "actual realized value"... on the open market anyway.

If you have one to sell is where all those other factors come in, but they do not factor in to _*current market value*_.


----------



## removed

Wouldn't being owned by Jesse James make it worth less?


----------

