# Advice on German WW2 Truppenfahrrad restoration



## OliverEvans03 (Jul 7, 2022)

Hi guys,

Need a bit of advice on a potential truppenfahrrad restoration I’ve found. I’m considering buying it as a restoration project and make it the first big item in my growing militaria collection with the intention of taking it to military fairs and events I regularly attend.
I’ve had advice on it’s condition and potential for restoration from an uncle who has experience restoring bikes/motorcycles and he advised me to seek another second opinion on how difficult it might be to restore. My main concern is that although the main frame is not too bad shape, the mud guards are looking quite rusted and may need very delicate work to preserve them. My other concern is spare parts I’d need to acquire and where I’d get them from, because although things like mounting brackets, handlebars and tires can be sourced without too much difficulty, if I needed to buy say another mud flap/wheel arch that may be quite tricky.

Guess my question would be does the condition look good enough to restore and are there any areas of the bike that may need to be replaced from what can be discerned from the photos I’ve got of it from a dealers website? And if I do need to replace some parts would it be at very least possible to do so and any useful websites/forum groups where I might have the best chance to acquire either original or replica parts?
I’m very willing to put lots of effort into this and money is not an issue, I’m buying it partly as a passion project to learn skills from I may need in years to come and I’m not bothered at all if it costs more than what the bikes worth to restore, I’d just be dead happy to own a truppenfahrrad regardless. I’ve also got several people willing to help me to make sure I do a good job of this and don’t make mistakes/errors that degrade its historical value (I.e not over-restore it which I’m conscious of avoiding). I just want to make sure this isn’t too much to take on and isn’t something that I’ll end up getting stuck half way through due to parts scarcity.

Thank you very much in advance for any help/advice on this restoration, I really appreciate and I’m grateful enough to know that enthusiast groups for these kind of military “vehicles” exist!!

Look forward to replying,
Oliver


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## Andrew Gorman (Jul 7, 2022)

Looks solid to me. Is that a head badge or a license on the steering tube? From vague memory I think only Austria and Switzerland built specific bikes for the army- Germany just bought them off the shelf.  I don't know how Denmark procured theirs, but there is a good movie- May 9- showing bicycle troops in action.  A front tire brake is usually used on German bikes- is there a coaster  and a caliper brake on the rear wheel? And who made the hub?  Parts are available- search for "oldtimer fahrrad teile" to scare some up.  There are a couple of web shops in Germany I can't recall off the bat, and there is always ebay.de.  A really good German bike board is at altesrad.net  If your German is as bad as mine, google translate will get you close enough, but it helps to learn the basic technical terms to minimize confusion.  What's the story on the bike? Is it really a truppenfahrrad or just a pre-war bike? Here is some truppenfahrrad chatter from altesrad:




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						altesrad.net - Suche
					





					www.altesrad.net


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## Andrew Gorman (Jul 7, 2022)

A couple parts sources, and there are some big old bike swap meets in Germany as well.









						Dein Online Shop für restaurierte Oldtimer und Vintage Bikes - Past Bikes
					

Past Bikes dein Online Shop für restaurierte und instand gesetzte Vintage Bikes, sowie Ersatzteile, Zubehör, Werkzeug, Radtour Ausrüstung.




					www.pastbikes.de
				








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						Velo-Classic Shop | Velo-Classic Shop
					

Fa. Velo-Classic - Oldtimer Fahrräder Klassische Tourenfahrräder und Rennräder, Motorfahrräder ( Sachs 74er / Sachs 98er ), Hilfsmotoren (REX Lohmann, MAW) und Mopeds täglich Versand.




					velo-classic.de


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## blackcat (Jul 7, 2022)

Hello Oliver;
Are you sure it's a german bike?
I'd lean for a french bike, you would only have the PALLAS type luggage rack.
Regards;
Serge


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## OliverEvans03 (Jul 7, 2022)

blackcat said:


> Hello Oliver;
> Are you sure it's a german bike?
> I'd lean for a french bike, you would only have the PALLAS type luggage rack.
> Regards;
> Serge




I’m not 100% certain, I’d have to contact the seller and ask for details on the manufacturer, where it was found and any other related details. It’s described as a “barn find” so could be from literally anywhere. Like you say there’s not much to go on considering the lack of evidence it was even used by the Wehrmacht. I’ll give the seller an email tomorrow and keep you posted. Thanks for your tip off!
Regards,
Oliver


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## leo healy (Jul 9, 2022)

Hi Oliver

The carrier is the only part from a truppenfahrrad ,  the frame  looks to be a 26" frame? The only part that could be salvaged is the rear mudguard if its a 28" frame, .not even good for parts just my look on it.

   Leo.


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## OliverEvans03 (Jul 9, 2022)

leo healy said:


> Hi Oliver
> 
> The carrier is the only part from a truppenfahrrad ,  the frame  looks to be a 26" frame? The only part that could be salvaged is the rear mudguard if its a 28" frame, .not even good for parts just my look on it.
> 
> Leo.



Hi Leo,

I had a chat with the dealer over the phone and he said that he picked it up in Aras and that it’d been kept in a dry barn for 30 odd years. He assures me that the condition is mainly surface rust and that cleaning it off wouldn’t affect the bikes structural integrity. He also said that it came with two other frames in slightly worse condition that were good for spares if I at all needed them. I’m going down in a week or so time to view it in person and see if it’s in good enough condition to restore but the guy seemed genuine about the bikes condition and doesn’t look too bad to me (but don’t take my word as I’m not an expert on bikes!).
He wasn’t sure on the manufacturer as there weren’t any badges and only a serial number/production stamp that would require significant research to find out, although the provenance that it was used by the Wehrmacht is true and said he could provide written information in person.
Guess my question to you would be if you have any good ideas as to the bikes manufacturer? Someone else replied that it looked like a French frame but that they weren’t sure.

Thanks for your help,
Oliver


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## Mercian (Jul 10, 2022)

Hi Oliver.

And Welcome.

A qualifier here: I specialise in Allied WW2 equipment, and have never bought a German bike. But these are my thoughts:

@blackcat  (above), is a longtime collector, with an excellent and varied collection, and resident in France. If he thinks it may be a French bicycle, then that would be good enough for me.

Of course, that doesn't stop it from being German used as a captured or confiscated (stolen) Beute item, as much German equipment was, and modified to match the German standard. If that's the case, it would be a very interesting bicycle, but the situation is nearly impossible to prove. And it's also possible that someone post war has added a rack they found lying around to make the bicycle more usable.

I started collecting militaria at about your age, and something it took me a few years to learn was that for 'common' items there will always be a better one along shortly (obviously, there are unique things you have to sieze with both hands too!).

WW2 German military bikes are not uncommon. I note this one is being offered for £375, and, although you're prepared to put the time and money into it, you are looking at many hours and hundreds more pounds to get it into decent condition. And, if it's not a 'German' bike then people will always point this out, and you will always be slightly unhappy about it.

It's a good idea to learn some basics about the type of bicycle you are searching for. The Germans used bikes to a standard pattern from many makers, but one thing I'd look for to start with is the rear and front hubs. I understand these are generally made by F&S, Fichtel und Sachs, Torpedo brand. They are dated with a simple two number system (42 is 1942, etc) stamped onto the outside shells, and a lot of internal parts. Although I know that wheels are an item that are easily swapped, if a bike under consideration did not have this style of hub, with correct dates, I would already be wondering how original the rest of it is.

I hope these random thoughts help. Do ask here if you need specific help, and I hope you find what you are looking for.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## DaGasMan (Jul 10, 2022)

Mercian said:


> Hi Oliver.
> 
> And Welcome.
> 
> ...




Adrian,
You have summed up a life lesson very eloquently. Study and research first before spending. 👍

Oliver,
Welcome to the CABE. I do my best research here. It's a great source of information. As a side note,
I had a chance to buy "... an authentic WW2 German Bicycle." I researched the bike here on the CABE
and decided it was not a war bike, but a tribute with German parts. I passed. Still think about it though.
Ah, what could have been. No matter what, have fun. After all, it's a bike and bikes are fun.


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## OliverEvans03 (Jul 10, 2022)

Mercian said:


> Hi Oliver.
> 
> And Welcome.
> 
> ...



Hi Adrian,

Thank you very much for your insight and and information into what that bike might be, I really have benefitted from and appreciated everyone who's contributed to this message thread and given me valuable advice. I've given it some consideration and have decided not to go ahead and purchase it as it's just too much of a risk in terms of its provenance (although if it were possible to prove it was a beute bike appropriated by the Germans I'd love to have it as that's such a cool story, but sadly this is very nearly impossible to prove like you say). 
I would've loved to have taken it on as a project and wouldn't mind at all spending many hours (and pounds!!) restoring it but if neither anyone here nor the dealer can definitively link it to the Wehrmacht, it's just not something I'm after as it may just be an interwar or post-war bike. I'll save the money for next year where I'll be heading to the annual War & Peace show in Kent so I can stock up on some other goodies for my collection. Never know, I might find a real Truppenfahrrad and I'll be able to show it to all of you!

Thanks again for your help and all the best,
Oliver


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## OliverEvans03 (Jul 10, 2022)

DaGasMan said:


> Adrian,
> You have summed up a life lesson very eloquently. Study and research first before spending. 👍
> 
> Oliver,
> ...



Hi DaGasMan,

I appreciate your story/lesson, perhaps I got a bit too carried away with the excitement of owning a Wehrmacht bicycle but like you say research is key and you need to be certain of what you're getting. Hopefully I'll be back soon here with another bike that's more authentic and promising 👍
Like you say, bikes are fun indeed

Thanks again,
Oliver


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## leo healy (Jul 11, 2022)

Hi Oliver

  Im glad you walked away from that bike ,we have all been there when the passion takes over and blinds us. If its ok with you i will post a few pics of what you need to lookout for ,the troop bikes were all 28" wheeled bikes 56cm  frame detachable express handlebars. 








						truppenfahrrad with attitude | Military Bicycles
					

This was the last bike i restored a while back ,it did have a rifle carrying device on it then, but has been promoted to tank killer now.     The brackets for carrying the panzerschreck i had to scratch build as i have not seen any originals, the clasps for closing are german war time items...




					thecabe.com
				











						an other of my military bicycles | Military Bicycles
					

This is a 1939 prestowerke a-g bicycle of the wehrmacht that was also in a very sad state ,but came up very well.




					thecabe.com


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## leo healy (Jul 11, 2022)

🙄 Hi Oliver
  Had to post the last lot before i lost it .  Few Pointers note the crank ,thats the type you need on the bike, the shape of the wheels 28" and a good indicator of the bike been pre 1943 is the small wheel on the right side of the head tube.


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## blackcat (Jul 11, 2022)

blackcat said:


> Hello Oliver;
> Are you sure it's a german bike?
> I'd lean for a french bike, you would only have the PALLAS type luggage rack.
> Regards;
> Serge




Hello Oliver;
I simply wrote that i was leaning towards a French bike so as not to be too direct, but for me, it was 100% French.
@leo healy has a nice collection of truppenfahrrads and in my opinion a very good help for your research on the subjet.
On the German side, i only collect small equipements and small vehicules (bicycles, motorcycles and IF8 infantry trailers). the uniform does not interest me.
Here is my truppenfahrrad VICTORIA 1938 ( dated left side on the frame) with its original mounted VICTORIA rear hub and an first model WUK 39 box.








My klappfahrrad BRENNABOR from 1942 undated found in Rennes FRANCE ( 5 FALLSCHIRMJÄGER-DIV May -June1944).
I have almost finished finding the missing parts, only the EXPRESS Werke handlebars remain.







There is also the  great book of my friend Peter Verhoeven (personal collection at the museem of Overloon NL).



Regards;
Serge


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## slingshot (Jul 15, 2022)

OliverEvans03 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Need a bit of advice on a potential truppenfahrrad restoration I’ve found. I’m considering buying it as a restoration project and make it the first big item in my growing militaria collection with the intention of taking it to military fairs and events I regularly attend.
> I’ve had advice on it’s condition and potential for restoration from an uncle who has experience restoring bikes/motorcycles and he advised me to seek another second opinion on how difficult it might be to restore. My main concern is that although the main frame is not too bad shape, the mud guards are looking quite rusted and may need very delicate work to preserve them. My other concern is spare parts I’d need to acquire and where I’d get them from, because although things like mounting brackets, handlebars and tires can be sourced without too much difficulty, if I needed to buy say another mud flap/wheel arch that may be quite tricky.
> ...



The chainring pattern is like one the Wehrmacht used as is the PALLAS rear rack and twisted bracket off of the seat post. Most of the bicycles made to military specs had a quick release and detachable handle bars and a front "push down" brake like the Swiss Military bicycles. However some of my reference photos do not show that. There are a number of books that may help you. To get you started you might consider, "The Troop Bicycle of the German Wehrmarcht" by Paul Louis Johnson & John Fuller Ryan. I found my Truppenfahrrad in St Mere Eglise. The France dealer had bought it from a dealer in California, USA. I bought it and had it shipped back to USA, Texas. Cheers.


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## blackcat (Jul 16, 2022)

Hello @slingshot ;
Your truppenfahrrad is nice.
What is its brand and is it dated?
Regards;
Serge


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## leo healy (Jul 27, 2022)

leo healy said:


> 🙄 Hi Oliver
> Had to post the last lot before i lost it .  Few Pointers note the crank ,thats the type you need on the bike, the shape of the wheels 28" and a good indicator of the bike been pre 1943 is the small wheel on the right side of the head tube.


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## Welbike (Aug 31, 2022)

Having owned many Truppenfahrrads, I also feel this is a French bicycle with a Pallas rack, the German bicycles did not use a cotter pin for the cranks, but a splined axle, with corresponding pedal arms, there were a couple main manufacturers before and during the war, a good thing to check is always if the box will fit in the frame, you need a tall headstock. The rear hubs are always dated.

Hope this helps,

Lex


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## Andrew Gorman (Aug 31, 2022)

The "small wheel" is a fork lock- a metal band tightens around the steering tube to lock the fork for leaning up against something without turning the wheel and falling down.  It's a handy gadget! In German, one term is bandfesteller- I can't remember the other one.  I'd like to put one on any bike  I ride and have been looking for something similar that I could adapt.


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## Princeton (Aug 31, 2022)

Mercian said:


> Of course, that doesn't stop it from being German used as a captured or confiscated (stolen) Beute item, as much German equipment was







….like this one…


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## DaGasMan (Aug 31, 2022)

Princeton said:


> View attachment 1688583
> 
> ….like this one…



Mein Gott! Hans hat das Boneshaker-Fahrrad gestohlen!


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## leo healy (Sep 6, 2022)

Secret truppenrad testing area,😉


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## FreedomMachinist (Jan 4, 2023)

Andrew Gorman said:


> The "small wheel" is a fork lock- a metal band tightens around the steering tube to lock the fork for leaning up against something without turning the wheel and falling down.  It's a handy gadget! In German, one term is bandfesteller- I can't remember the other one.  I'd like to put one on any bike  I ride and have been looking for something similar that I could adapt.
> View attachment 1688537



Yes, Andrew, you are totally right, it is a "Bandfeststeller = Sling Tigthener", also called "Steuerkopfsperre=Steering Head Lock".

Once the Sicherheitsniederrad (Lower Safety Bicycle) was established, the German bicycle industry adopted this gadget right until the end of WW2 - it was employed almost universally in the DACH-countries (Deutschland/Östereich/Schweiz =Germany/Austria/Switzerland) - I mean literally all manufactures used it, except on the racing models and some export versions.

This strange oddity actually makes it super easy to tell the age of an antique German bicycle - if it has a Feststeller, it is Pre-WWII 

The origin of this gadget, as far as I know, relates to the English, just like the Safety Bicycle itself...

There were several versions of steering locks, but the one depicted on top was the most common one.

Here re a few examples (credit to "AltesRad.net" = "The Cabe")  



			altesrad.net - Anmelden
		






















































Has any contraptions of this kind ever been featured on a US-bike ?


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## Cooper S. (Monday at 4:45 PM)

Paint it all black and say it’s late war lol


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