# Ladies (kinda/sorta) Indian



## fordmike65 (May 9, 2020)

Like the saying goes..."Close, but no cigar". A ladies version of the coveted Indian at first glance, this Ideal badged bicycle is still quite the looker. I'm wondering if anyone can chime in with some info on this early gal. I don't know much more than she's equipped with a ND Model A rear hub, Indian style chainring, so guessing pre-27? Possibly Westfield built, but not quite sure. I'll get her out in the light tomorrow and post better pics of the frame construction, rear forkends and fork crown. Thanks in advance for any insight. Mike


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## fordmike65 (May 9, 2020)

Found this pic of the Al Ray Co store in KY


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## Mercian (May 10, 2020)

Hi Mike,

The serial number looks like Westfield font (the number ones with that flat top and broader bottom are always a good first indicator).

If it is Westfield, then C is 1925.

Best Regards,
Adrian


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## New Mexico Brant (May 10, 2020)

Killer bike Mike!  For a guy that is done buying I sure enjoy seeing your weekly acquisitions.


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## ratrodz (May 10, 2020)

New Mexico Brant said:


> Killer bike Mike!  For a guy that is done buying I sure enjoy seeing your weekly acquisitions.




It’s a girls bike... so you know what he’s going to say!!!


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## ratrodz (May 10, 2020)

The real question is... what’s under the tarp? And who’s Bronco is that??


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## fordmike65 (May 10, 2020)

ratrodz said:


> The real question is... what’s under the tarp? And who’s Bronco is that??



'32 Ford Roadster


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## JO BO (May 10, 2020)

Bugatti La Voiture Noire with 500 original miles.


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## fordmike65 (May 11, 2020)

More pics!


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## fordmike65 (May 12, 2020)

I'm not that versed on these earlier bikes, so would the consensus be that this lady is Westfield built? Those rear forkends(dropouts) are a bit interesting...


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## fordmike65 (May 15, 2020)

Bump!  Thoughts?


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## Mercian (May 15, 2020)

Hi Mike,

I'm 95% certain that it's a Westfield built bike, after 30 minutes of educating myself on the CABE. (95%, because I am not an expert!).

Reasons:

As I mentioned previously, the serial looks Westfield style, and starts with a C, which would be Westfield code for 1925, and which is feasible for this frame.

I looked for other 1925 Westfield BB serial stampings to compare. I could only find one battered example, but I think it's good enough to demonstrate that the C, 1 and 7 are the same font. End of Post 2 here:









						Westfield Moto Frame Wtd | Wanted: Bikes, Trikes, Parts, Accessories, Etc.
					

Any Westfield moto frames out there ?..Thanks ..Tom




					thecabe.com
				




From 1923 Westfield built Indian bicycles officially (and probably as a sub contractor from 1916 - 22).

Posts 6-17 of the link below (and probably others) are quite informative on the history, and also address the dropouts on your bike, which are Indian like, but would also appear on Westfields of the period.









						Old Indian | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

Can anyone tell me what year this Indian Bicycle was built by the placement of the tank straps?




					thecabe.com
				




I hope this helps,

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Archie Sturmer (May 15, 2020)

So was Al-Ray a jobber?  I had believed that those rounded fork crowns may have been 1920’s Snyder products; or maybe just a girls.


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## fordmike65 (May 15, 2020)

Archie Sturmer said:


> So was Al-Ray a jobber?  I had believed that those rounded fork crowns may have been 1920’s Snyder products; or maybe just a girls.



The forks are what's throwing me off.


Rear forkends too...


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## Archie Sturmer (May 15, 2020)

> The forks are what's throwing me off.  Rear forkends too...





> Those rear forkends (dropouts) are a bit interesting...



The triangle plates have been described as Westfield, but not for the house 'Columbia' product line; similar to my 1927 Westfield.
A member @Gary Mc shows these on another 1927 Westfield.
https://ratrodbikes.com/forum/index...motor-bike-built-by-pope-westfield-mfg.63301/
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/old-indian.40731/#post-227954


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## Mercian (May 16, 2020)

Hi Mike,

I was just dating someone else's bicycle (1923 Westfield), and ran across the Indian catalogue from 1923, a couple of years before your bike.









						1924? Indian basement find | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

Just picked this up after the deal was made..it was a deal that was a one  only or its gone so I sacrificed my favorite bikes for it.. . All original Indian in amazing original condition. It’s dark now but I’d put a few pics of its arrival to me. More pics later. I m still in aw on its...




					thecabe.com
				




The Westfield made frame of yours appears to be similar to the Indian Model I 34 there. Interestingly, the Womens bikes seem to have a different chainwheel to the Mens, and the chainwheel on yours seems to be the mens version.

I'm pretty sure that when companies like A.L. Ray C°; ordered these bikes from Westfield, it was in fairly small batches, so they could specify what they wanted to make it 'their' bike, but also, if Westfield had surplus parts on the shelf, it was a way of selling them to clear the stock. After all, who knew that in 100 years this would be of interest to anyone?

I hope this helps,

Best Regards,

Adrian


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