# Advice sought - Pierce Racer



## Leadheavy52 (Aug 30, 2019)

Hello fellow enthusiasts. I am reaching out in hopes of some advice. I recently purchased this Pierce Racer off CL locally. Not knowing much about this era of bikes, I spoke with the seller, did a little research and pulled the trigger. I picked up the bike the next day and was able to finally get it home and asses it’s condition a bit more completely. In open disclosure, and for context of this thread, I am into the bike $1000.

Once home, I began to disassemble it. First thing first, I noticed the saddle, pedals, stem, crankset, rear sprocket, front wheel and possibly the handlebars are incorrect from what would have been installed at the factory. Secondly, after looking at many pictures, advertisements, threads in the CABE, and historical articles, I have not seen another frame like the one on this bike.

The serial number is: 195749. According to he research that you fine folks over here have assembled, it puts the bike between 1916 and 1918. The bike has a very well designed arch running from the down tube to the corner of the top tube and head tube. In addition, it has a gusset between the chain stays near the seat post. Additionally, the forks are unique to other Pierce racers I have seen. They look very similar, but have some slight arches in the center of the fork. The bike has a silver Buffalo, NY headbadge and also has a smaller one below it that says “Racer”.

My predicament: I have grown attached to this bike. I love the history it tells, though still largely unknown. This bike has been ridden hard and seen better days. The nickel on the forks it trashed and has large flakes of it coming loose. The nickel on the head tube looks ok and might clean up well. The original maroon paint is the worst of it all, with well over 50% of it being rusty metal. Someone coated the whole bike in dried, brown lacquer. The steel is sound all the way through however and fortunately, the bike has come apart easily (so far). The forks have a crack on the top of the left fork, presumably from a wreck. Most likely what also parked the bike. The saddle (Brooks) is so dry rotted that it is beyond redemption. The left crank is different from the right, which is marked Bianchi. The chainring is Bianchi. The front wheel is a Lobdell and the rear is the correct Fairbanks.

I have been disassembling and cleaning (gently) this bike and going over in my head what the best route of action is. I have lots of experience with 60s-80s road bikes and would not consider myself a novice to bicycle maintenance, but this is I know waters for me.

Should I clean it up and put it back together in its Frankenstein state? Should I take it apart, source the original parts, and restore it to factory fresh?

I looked everywhere I could to see if this was some famous World Champion’s old bicycle, but judging from the mid-matched parts, I highly doubt that it was anything more than just some nameless amateur rider from the 20’s or 30’s.

Primarily, the frame and forks have me baffled. Could this be a rare custom order or possibly a new Poe goal design being real-world tested prior to the end of the Pierce Cycle Co.?
I am looking for some advise on other places I may look for research or some guidance on whether I should preserve the life of the bicycle by a good cleaning/reassembly or should I plan on ditching the old mid-matched items and returning this bike to its original appearance?

I have attached some reference photos and would be more than happy to take any additional photos.

Also, I am not looking to sell this bicycle. This is not to say that it wouldn’t change in the future, but I am simply looking for the opinions of better educated persons than myself.

Sorry for the long post and thank you in advance for the help.

-Austin


----------



## redline1968 (Aug 30, 2019)

I could use the chain ring if you chose to replace it.  I would replace the fork ...chain ring ... with originals.. also  turn the rims into money or upgrade them with rideable modern components. Just Keep the bike as is.. the odd brace welded to it doesn’t look original and is placed there for some reason...  just use it as a original frame fork with modern comonents.


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi (Aug 30, 2019)

At least the frame is worth what you paid.
Pierce cranksets and forks are not that difficult to find. The non-original parts can be sold and used to buy parts. Patience is your friend....


----------



## Leadheavy52 (Aug 31, 2019)

Thank you for the replies. Ultimately, it would be cool to track down which period cyclist used this bike. Judging by the mid-matched parts, I doubt it was anyone of any significance and most likely one of the tens of thousands of amateur riders that competed at that era. If I can’t track it down to any ONE rider, I will most likely part out all but the original equipment and begin to search out the correct bits. I have patience and the space to properly store and work on this frame either way I swing. 

On the topic of the frame, the support arch and the rear chainstay gusset are VERY well done. I can’t say for sure that they couldn’t have been done as a special project. I’ll take some closer pictures of the craftsmanship. Also, the braze joint where the arch meets the head tube is nickel plated under the paint. 
How far down the top and bottom tubes should the factory nickel go? I have seen a few other pictures of nickel-headed Pierces where paint damage has shown nickel through the tubes to at least an inch or two.


----------



## Barnegatbicycles (Aug 31, 2019)

I would clean it up and leave it how it is. The person who had it probably put those parts on it to customize it for their type of riding. Fix / replace the fork. Clean it up. If you want to ride it make up a set of spare wheels and ride it but keep the parts with the bike. It's cool the way it is and it tells a story. Just my opinion.


----------



## Leadheavy52 (Aug 31, 2019)

More pictures, plus the BB oiling port.

The cap reads Schrader USA.


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi (Aug 31, 2019)

The cap is incorrect.


----------



## Jesse McCauley (Sep 1, 2019)

Leave it- that bike has character that if you monkey with it too much it will lose.

Still interested should the time come, I lost a nights sleep over it but forreal, leave it, or else I may lose another.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bikejunk (Sep 1, 2019)

As said above why buy a very interesting bike that was modified for hard racing or a heavy rider and try to turn it back into a regular bike -one of the most interesting race bike I have seen in a while


----------



## Dweber (Sep 2, 2019)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> The cap is incorrect.



The cap is a Schrader valve stem cap.


----------



## piercer_99 (Sep 3, 2019)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> At least the frame is worth what you paid.
> Pierce cranksets and forks are not that difficult to find. The non-original parts can be sold and used to buy parts. Patience is your friend....





I must be asking the wrong people then.


----------



## piercer_99 (Sep 3, 2019)

That is a one of a kind bike.   Pretty nice.

really interesting.


----------



## olderthandirt (Sep 15, 2019)

it looks like someone stiffened  up the frame for what ever reason maybe the rider was very strong and experienced flex under hard riding ?


----------



## rusty_apache (Sep 15, 2019)

I would put a coat of Waxoyl, new ball bearings everywhere and a set of Robert Dean tires on it, then ride it as is.
Look for the proper bits at your leisure if you want to set it up like factory.


----------



## New Mexico Brant (Sep 15, 2019)

The carmine red paint history on the bike strongly suggest the modifications were done at the factory.  Please don't do a thing to the bike beside a cleaning.  It is phenomenal as it is with all the post factory components!  Have you been able to find a the Pierce catalogs from that year +/-?


----------



## sam (Sep 15, 2019)

Don't let anyone get you in a hurry to get rid of any parts. Not the broken fork or the incorrect crank set. That bike was a special order. And it was built 30 miles from Toronto Ca. which is heavily influenced by the French. Most special order track bikes of the day were out fitted with BSA parts but if ordered for Canadian racing it every well might have been finished off with French parts. More research is needed, but you can change the fork wheels and seat and ride it as you do the research.


----------



## Leadheavy52 (Sep 16, 2019)

Thank you for all of the wonderful insight. I have been researching Pierce bicycles of this era (and many others) and I have become fascinated. Admittedly, I was none-too-aware if the fever-pitch popularity of six day races, road racing, pace-setting, and all the other cool races from that era. As an avid cyclist myself, to see the conditions of the tracks and roads of that time and the sheer number of spectators and racers who all lined up to breathe life into this fledgling sport; and the crashes! Oh my god! It’s been a very enjoyable history lesson. Can’t say that I am anywhere as knowledgeable as any of you, but I know more than I did before I picked up this bike. 
What surprises me is how light this bicycle it. I first noticed it when I pulled it off the wall in the garage it was stored in. Now that I have it down to the frame only (the seatpost is still in place, waiting on the magic of PB Blaster), it weighs out at 7.25 lbs. that’s lighter than any of my old 70s road bikes for sure! 

I wanted to include some additional pictures from the tear down of the bike, and also pose more questions so I can preserve the history of this bike and not screw it up. Additionally, I am happy to take more photos for anyone interested. 

Questions:
I have seen that Pierce had threaded bottom brackets in later years. The bottom bracket (see photos) was threaded to accept the bearing cups and spindle from a Bianchi (marked). Is it possible that the bottom bracket has been re-tapped to accept this or would it be axle to accept both? I am concerned about standard to mm thread pitch. 

The brazing where the seat tube and down tube look different where they attach to the BB from others I have seen. Is this reinforced brazing, or signs that the BB has been replaced? 

When cleaning, what is the preferred method of rust removal from the frame? 

Does anyone know anything about the pull-through hubs on the rims? They are matched to each other, but the rims are different. 

What is the little bracket/hanger for on the stem? 

Lastly, is it possible this bike was set up for road racing? I only ask this because of the frame reinforcements and the frame-mounted pump brackets. Would it still use a fixed hub?

Thank you all for the expertise and knowledge.

I am including pictures of the bike during disassembly and of other Pierce Racers I have found online. 










-A



us



ti



n


----------



## sam (Sep 16, 2019)

FYI your photo of the inside of the headtube shows the internal lugs--- common at the time on lots of bikes.


----------



## piercer_99 (Sep 18, 2019)

sam said:


> FYI your photo of the inside of the headtube shows the internal lugs--- common at the time on lots of bikes.




Also one of the Pierce trademarks of the time.


----------



## piercer_99 (Sep 18, 2019)

Leadheavy52 said:


> Thank you for all of the wonderful insight. I have been researching Pierce bicycles of this era (and many others) and I have become fascinated. Admittedly, I was none-too-aware if the fever-pitch popularity of six day races, road racing, pace-setting, and all the other cool races from that era. As an avid cyclist myself, to see the conditions of the tracks and roads of that time and the sheer number of spectators and racers who all lined up to breathe life into this fledgling sport; and the crashes! Oh my god! It’s been a very enjoyable history lesson. Can’t say that I am anywhere as knowledgeable as any of you, but I know more than I did before I picked up this bike.
> What surprises me is how light this bicycle it. I first noticed it when I pulled it off the wall in the garage it was stored in. Now that I have it down to the frame only (the seatpost is still in place, waiting on the magic of PB Blaster), it weighs out at 7.25 lbs. that’s lighter than any of my old 70s road bikes for sure!
> 
> I wanted to include some additional pictures from the tear down of the bike, and also pose more questions so I can preserve the history of this bike and not screw it up. Additionally, I am happy to take more photos for anyone interested.
> ...




"
Questions:
I have seen that Pierce had threaded bottom brackets in later years. The bottom bracket (see photos) was threaded to accept the bearing cups and spindle from a Bianchi (marked). Is it possible that the bottom bracket has been re-tapped to accept this or would it be axle to accept both? I am concerned about standard to mm thread pitch.

I do not believe that your hanger bracket is threaded, it looks as if you have threaded bearing cups.   Your cups are similar to the ones on my BR model Amateur Sprint Racer, except that mine are not threaded.   One thing I have found about Pierce machines is that they did not typically use conventional sizes on things, for example, my steer tube is 1-1/16" as opposed to the standard 1" steer tubes on most other bicycles.

The brazing where the seat tube and down tube look different where they attach to the BB from others I have seen. Is this reinforced brazing, or signs that the BB has been replaced?
Your brazing looks like it is all factory, as #New Mexico Brant noted, your Carmine red paint all looks like factory paint.
When cleaning, what is the preferred method of rust removal from the frame?
There are many methods out there, OA is one a lot of people use, however as your bike is Carmine red, it isn't recommended as it doesn't do well with reds.
On my Pierce, I used a polishing compound, very lightly abrasive to address the small spots of rust, then many coats of carnauba wax on top of it to protect the paint.  (in my opinion my paint looks really good).

Does anyone know anything about the pull-through hubs on the rims? They are matched to each other, but the rims are different.
the bike could have had an accident over the years and a rim replaced, using the original hubs..   just a wild a** guess.

What is the little bracket/hanger for on the stem?
could have been for a light, or to hang a water bottle from, that is another guess.

Lastly, is it possible this bike was set up for road racing? I only ask this because of the frame reinforcements and the frame-mounted pump brackets. Would it still use a fixed hub?

It very well could have been set up for road racing, and the rear hub options were either 'fixed' or 'coaster'.  The coaster brake set up was typically about $5 more.

All in all, you have a really nice bicycle, if you chose to clean it up and polish it, it should pop nicely.
This is what mine looks like when it is freshly polished.

in it's show form.



in it's everyday rider form, and I try to ride it everyday.





Also, they are surprisingly light.  My frame and fork, weighs 6.5 pounds.  The bike set up in everyday riding condition is just under 28 pounds.


----------



## Barnegatbicycles (Sep 18, 2019)

Those hubs ! They should be Thor. If so there will have the word Thor engraved on the rear hub opposite of the gear.


----------



## Barnegatbicycles (Sep 18, 2019)




----------



## Leadheavy52 (Sep 19, 2019)

Barnegatbicycles said:


> Those hubs ! They should be Thor. If so there will have the word Thor engraved on the rear hub opposite of the gear.




Excellent spot! They do look just like this, only grubbier. Much grubbier. I will take a closer look at the house this evening and see if I can spot a mark. Thank you for the information! 

Austin


----------



## Leadheavy52 (Sep 19, 2019)

piercer_99 said:


> "
> Questions:
> I have seen that Pierce had threaded bottom brackets in later years. The bottom bracket (see photos) was threaded to accept the bearing cups and spindle from a Bianchi (marked). Is it possible that the bottom bracket has been re-tapped to accept this or would it be axle to accept both? I am concerned about standard to mm thread pitch.
> 
> ...




Thank you for the great insight, Pierce! You have a drop-dead gorgeous bicycle there! The more I look at this bike, the more it captures my imagination. I only wish it could speak! I will stay away from OA to preserve the paint color, but spot polishing would do more harm than good I believe. In some areas, the paint is very flaky and just looking at it seems to make it worse. I was looking at some other options that may be able to be brushed/dabbed on in small areas. The biggest issue I’m having it getting the old varnish/shellac off the frame. It looks as though it was coated prior to being put away. Or, a can off it fell off a shelf, coving the bike at some point in its history. Like I said, I wish they could talk.


----------



## kccomet (Sep 19, 2019)

don't touch up the paint.... brushed dabbed.....your bike, my opinion only


----------



## Leadheavy52 (Sep 19, 2019)

kccomet said:


> don't touch up the paint.... brushed dabbed.....your bike, my opinion only



 Not paint, but rust remover. I wasn't clear enough.


----------



## piercer_99 (Sep 19, 2019)

might be linseed oil.

try denatured alcohol sparingly.


----------



## Steve Birm (Feb 9, 2020)

Hi Austin, 

I've been meaning to join here for a while, and this bike finally got me to... 

The reinforcements on the frame are something you'd see on a Motorpacing bike, and the clip on the stem would be the upper clip for a stem support rod.
Most also has a seat support, and the wear on the paint right under the front end of the seat looks about right for a clamp that might have been loose for a while. 
I've been looking for pics of one like this, which I think I've seen before, but I can't find it. 

Pacing bikes are pretty special, and would have almost all been custom built. They got used fairly hard, and after a point, some got converted to being normal bikes either for training or just warmups. 
They also got used for a long time, even much more recently. 
I have a couple, one from the 20's or 30's And one from the 80's
The older one had a similar conversion, but they'd even removed the racing bars and put on flat bars. It had also been crashed heavily and had the steerer repaired with a solid steel slug and pins where it had cracked. 

Here's a before and after pic of it as I bought it, and once I got it mostly fixed up. I don't have a stem support, as the fork isn't tapped for one It's original, so it was probably raced without it. 

Steve Birmingham


----------



## piercer_99 (Feb 9, 2020)

Steve Birm said:


> Hi Austin,
> 
> I've been meaning to join here for a while, and this bike finally got me to...
> 
> ...



Nice Stayer you have there.

Stayers deserve a thread all of there own, although i will hijack this with a few photos.


The guys that rode those were beasts.

here is a 1927 Boogmans Stayer








here is a shot of the insanity. 




_Image accompanying a Louis Darragon article in La Vie Au Grand Air, November 1907, depicting some of the riders who’d been killed on the track: Louis Mettling, Johnny Nelson, Paul Dangla, Albert Brècy, George Leander, and Harry Elkes._ (below)




The good news is, that starting in 2015, Madison Sports Group started up 6 day racing again in Europe and Australia. The modern rules are a bit more lax, no 24 hour racing, just 6pm to 2am each day.

Still using pacers with stayers and still having fun.  Although, a tad more safety equipment.   If I was 40 years younger, I would probably be crazy enough to give it a shot.


----------



## New Mexico Brant (Feb 10, 2020)

piercer_99 said:


> Stayers deserve a thread all of there own, although i will hijack this with a few photos.



Great images!  Here is a good spot to post more Pierce:   riders, racing, pacing


----------



## Leadheavy52 (Feb 10, 2020)

Steve Birm said:


> Hi Austin,
> 
> I've been meaning to join here for a while, and this bike finally got me to...
> 
> ...





Thank you, Steve, for both the comments on my bicycle and for joining the forum as well. I was familiar with motorpace bicycling, but never figured mine was possibly used for that sport as well. Curious about the additional reinforcements and it makes sense to have more support than not when racing in this manner. Those guys must have had balls bigger than their chainrings to get into that sport. Between the accidents and deaths, I imagine riding behind an early century motorcycle was enough to make you pass out.
The fork that came on the bike is not drilled to receive the other end of a handlebar support rod, but I know that's likely not an original fork to the bicycle. At least I don't suspect it is. I am still in the process of getting the Pierce back together and will definitely be turning my research to the stayers of that era. I have been very gently cleaning and will hold off on the reassembly until the spring time. Another post that I posted in put my Pierce to the 1914 manufacture year, shortly before Pierce switched manufacture to Angola. I sure wish this bike could tell stories. It looks like it spent its fair share of time as an amateur racer's bike as well.

Do you have a better photo of how the seat support is attached at the seat on your bicycle? This may also provide clues.

- Austin


----------



## olderthandirt (Nov 6, 2020)

the pull thru hubs were used on early victor and spaulding bicycles . they can be hard to locate when needed to finish up a restoration  ,i looked for a couple of years here on the cabe  before i located a nice set of complete wheels with hubs,  just luck that a fellow caber sold the bike but the buyer wanted to install more modern wheels ! i thought that these were the main users of this type of hubs but i am no expert ! if pierce used this type of hub someone please speak up ! i am also very interested ! remember the more we share the more we know ! thanks to all who share what they know !


----------



## kccomet (Nov 6, 2020)

they are Thor hubs


----------



## Ricker (Nov 6, 2020)

Wow- I hadn't read through this earlier- this is an amazing bike from the racing history of bikes. I totally think Brant is correct thinking that this is a factory fix for a very strong sponsored rider- btw varnish was used as a top coat during this era. If you re-varnish you might be surprised


----------



## Barnegatbicycles (Oct 15, 2022)

A shame to see such a cool original bike stripped down. Was very disappointed to see it like this at copake.


----------



## kccomet (Oct 15, 2022)

cool bike, he'll yea, original not so much, although I bet the parts had been on the bike for ever. I owned this bike at one time and sold it just how I bought it. thor hubs, bianchi crank set. I will agree though it's a shame someone parted it out. it had a very cool, sweaty racing vibe the way it was, and now that's gone


----------



## New Mexico Brant (Oct 15, 2022)

Barnegatbicycles said:


> A shame to see such a cool original bike stripped down. Was very disappointed to see it like this at copake. View attachment 1713136



Very sad.  Another youthful bike butcher at work.


----------



## mongeese (Oct 15, 2022)

Things that make you go hmmm


----------



## Barnegatbicycles (Oct 16, 2022)

I unknowingly ended up with the wheels so if any ends up buying the frame and wants them back I would gladly give them up.


----------



## alexander55 (Nov 15, 2022)

If I remember correctly, I looked that bike over for a REALLY LONG time at Memory Lane.  It was an awesome machine Jim.  Hate to see it all butchered up.


----------

