# Who likes a Two Speed?



## Schwinny (Mar 19, 2021)

The last bike I brought back to life started out a ten speed, but I dont like ten speeds so much, I mean, they're ok, but I cant ride one comfortably anymore. I set about getting rid of all the speeds and started to put an internal hub 3 or 5 speed but then tripped on some Bendix 2spd chatter and started to think about that.
Looking at the Bendix 2 speeds, I guess people are proud of them. I remember when I was a kid in the 60's and 70's, we all wanted a 2 speed Stingray or an Orange Krate. I didn't know much about the two speed deal, but I sure admired the neighbor boy down the street with his Orange Krate. My single speed, late 50's Speedster was what I had till the late 70's
Anyway....
Im not so hot on spending fairly large money on a "rebuilt" or "like new" or "known good" 50-60 year old hub with very little serviceability in 2021. They seemed like good idea for a city bike but the Bendix route didn't look that good to me. I ride the hell out of my bikes, several miles a day sometimes, and I dont need any spendy issues.
But while I was reading up on them Someone mentioned the S2 Sturmey Archer and I looked at that. They had a lot of bad press when it was re introduced in 2010-2011 due to internal issues of some type, but all the reviews after 2014 seem to show that the kinks have been worked out.

So I bought one and put it on the road bike frame.
It was brand new. A coaster brake model (S2C) and was less than $95 delivered.

It takes a few days to get used to how it works (same as the Bendix) and then it works smoother after few weeks.
Now, I find myself really liking it. I may get an old clunker heavy/middle weight and do it again.
Anybody else?
Yeah or nay on the Bendix or the SRAM or the SA... others?


----------



## catfish (Mar 19, 2021)

I love two speeds.


----------



## phantom (Mar 19, 2021)

Never been a fan of the kickback 2 speeds, however, the Bendix Aviation 2 speed manual hub is my favorite hub.


----------



## Schwinny (Mar 19, 2021)

phantom said:


> Never been a fan of the kickback 2 speeds, however, the Bendix Aviation 2 speed manual hub is my favorite hub.



Interesting.... I had forgotten about them. I wish I had other two speeds to compare with. Do you know what the gear spread is on the Aviation?


----------



## Freqman1 (Mar 19, 2021)

ND two speeds are the way to go


----------



## FICHT 150 (Mar 19, 2021)

Sturmey Archer AW and S5s are the way to go. I sent my Bendix 2 speeds and the tools to work on them down the road, a long time ago. Heavy, noisy in low gear, seemed like too low in low gear, and too high in high gear.
No Thanks.
Ted


----------



## Schwinny (Mar 20, 2021)

Just saw another thread on a company in India re-making the old Bendix 2spd, parts and all.
Hmmm.
Looking up the ratios, they are a bit different than the Sturmey. Red band and blue band have different ratios and each work opposite of the other. One uses 1st as 1:1 with 2nd an overdrive of 50%! Ugh no way. And the other uses 2nd as its 1:1 gear stepping down 30% for 1st, Roughly the same as the SA/S2 spread but opposite again.
The SA/S2 is an overdrive hub using 1st as 1:1 and second is a 30% overdrive.
I wonder how much the Bendix hubs Weigh? The SA/S2C I have was roughly 5lbs. Quite a chunk for todays "lighter" bikes.

Whats this ND 2 speed Freqman1 mentions?
And check out this blast from the past, I'd like to hear from someone that has or has ridden one of these...


----------



## bleedingfingers (Mar 22, 2021)

Have and have had a few Sachs Torpedo  hubs and they are  great .
Also have a Sturmey Archer on my path racer also good but Sachs I find is a little bit smoother shifting .
All mine are kickback and overdrive .


----------



## srfndoc (Mar 23, 2021)

The new Eagle 2sp hubs (Bendix yellow/blue band copies) are indeed out:









						Merry Sales helps bring back the Eagle 2-speed coaster brake hub
					

SAN FRANCISCO (BRAIN) — The Merry Sales Company worked with International Cycle Gears of India to produce the Eagle brand 2-speed coaster brake hub, which is based on the original specs and design of the Bendix 2-speed coaster brake hubs. Merry will distribute the hubs to dealers and...




					www.bicycleretailer.com
				




I'm looking for a 2sp kickback hub with a granny gear (like the yellow band)  that uses the 3 spline arrangement so I can use an ichibike sprocket on it.


----------



## Schwinny (Mar 23, 2021)

srfndoc said:


> The new Eagle 2sp hubs (Bendix yellow/blue band copies) are indeed out:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah... Read about this. Being made in India.
I wonder if more of the original Bendix models will surface now that there will be readily available repair parts cheap. I hear original NOS index springs bring a premium.


----------



## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Mar 23, 2021)

i Love my two speed kick back. It does take some getting used to, Im getting an aviation 2 speed laced up as we speak and I'm looking forward to seeing how it compares,


----------



## birdzgarage (Mar 25, 2021)

The only problem i have with the bendix two speeds is that they dont take the stamdard 3 tab sprockets.i like the sachs.the ability to re gear makes it easy to gear to your liking without changing the front sprocket.


----------



## ricobike (Mar 25, 2021)

birdzgarage said:


> The only problem i have with the bendix two speeds is that they dont take the stamdard 3 tab sprockets.i like the sachs.the ability to re gear makes it easy to gear to your liking without changing the front sprocket.




I like them both, but Sachs has a similar problem for a different reason.  Being an overdrive you can't get a rear sprocket big enough to compensate for the overdrive.  I managed to get a 24 tooth 3 tabbed cog (sturmey archer) for a 48 tooth front that I am using on one of my bikes, but if I wanted a 52 tooth on the front it would be geared way too high.

This is only a problem on the 26 inch versions though.  If you have a 20 or 24 inch wheel you're correct, the sky is limit on your options .


----------



## cyclingday (Mar 25, 2021)

My recent experience with the Sachs Duomatic, is that it’s a very high quality hub that works really well.
But, I find myself wishing that it had that third gear ratio in between the high and the low.
The low gear is slightly too low, and the high gear is slightly too high, so something in between would balance the spread, and keep you from reaching for that sweet spot that just isn’t there.
Changing the cog/sprockets isn’t really much of an option, because your still adversely affecting one side or the other to get that one gear that is more to your liking.
The New Departure two speed is a good set up, that works with a normal single speed type ratio, but gives you that low granny gear for climbing hills, or pedaling into the wind.
It’s a good time tested system that works surprisingly well.
I used to have a Shelby with the New Departure Triplspeed, and I’ve got to say, that I liked it the best.
I’ve always wanted to build up another bike with one of those.
They weren’t introduced until 1950, so they are a little late for the type of bikes I collect, but the function was the best of all the classic era multi geared set ups that I have tried.


----------



## Nashman (Mar 25, 2021)

I have ND 2 speeds on my 1950's ( a red and a green) Schwinn Panthers, and a ND 3 speed on my Schwinn Red Phantom. I like all of the set ups ( the 3 speed is a bit finicky hitting the gear right on) but a non vintage set up to consider is the Shimano 3 speed coaster brake option that is REALLY SWEET. It shifts like butter smooth and the gears are well proportioned for most riding conditions. I have bought several over the years on built wheels for Cruisers or Custom ballooners off Ebay. ( an example of what's on Ebay.)
*Shimano Nexus 3 Speed Coaster Brake 36h HUB SHIFTER Vintage Bike Cruiser Bicycle*
eBay item number:

*112854584952*
It's a twist grip with cables. I also have some CCM's from the late 1960's with the German 2 speed kickbacks that I also like.  Good luck.


----------



## SKPC (Mar 25, 2021)

If anyone wishes, I would be more than happy to take your Sachs Duomatic kickback hubs off your hands if they do not suit your needs to a tee.   If two gears are good might three give you the range the two speeds do not seem to have?


----------



## srfndoc (Mar 25, 2021)

So it sounds like if you want a 2sp with granny gear/1:1 and skiptooth cog, your only option is a ND 2sp.

I may try an SA kickback 2sp with an ichibike 11T cog.  That will give me a bit of a granny gear of 2.36 compared to 2.60 with the standard 10:26 prewar setup.  

Anyone know of larger skiptooth cogs than the 11T from ichibike (but with the same 3spline format)?


----------



## BFGforme (Mar 25, 2021)

I love the ND 2spd are the best, have them on almost all my bikes!!!


----------



## Schwinny (Mar 26, 2021)

Great info all around !!
Just makes me want to start making two speed bikes with a variety of hubs tho.... dangerous.

The two Speed I just put on one of mine has changed the way I think of City bikes. Its geared at 60 inch feet in first and 80 inch feet in second. After extensive, laborious and tedious testing (Many sprocket & gear swaps) I found that I like 60if for first gear here in Tucson. That applies to all bikes I have, but its much harder to do on anything but an overdrive hub (1st gear being 1:1)
I made a table of all the gear combinations in relation to the 30% overdrive of the SA/S2 hub and net tire height.

I read about this on Sheldon Brown Several years ago...

Front Sprocket teeth, divided by rear gear teeth, Times net Tire height (Actual height minus 1/4" for deflection) 
On my bike it is:
48 divided by 22 = 2.18 Times 27.5 = 60 + 30% for 2nd gear is 80.
60if is still a bit of a granny gear but you can cruise around at 10-12mph easily. The top of second has me doing about 20mph which is pretty quick for me considering the bad roads and blind cell phone drivers in town. Factor in Ive got only one good arm and Im nearly a danger out there.

Consider that on a Stock Schwinn 26" tire bike using a SA/3spd, The numbers come out to 1-2-3 = 44.22/66.4/88.6
It makes sense to me considering that on a Stock Schwinn 3spd I always feel that the gearing sweet spot is at the top of 1st / bottom of 2nd gear. A hard place to keep it while riding around for me. I like a little bit faster than a meander in first

I think anything more than a 30% spread between the gears is too much for me. I saw that the Spread on the Bendix wide band is 50%....


----------



## Nashman (Mar 27, 2021)

I think this looks like a Shimano Nexus 3 speed twist grip set up. I rest my case.


----------



## Mountain Trail Andy (Mar 28, 2021)

Anyone out there no if there is a fix for a Bendix Aviation 2-speed that jumps out of high gear?


----------



## Dirtvelo (Jun 12, 2021)

Mountain Trail Andy said:


> Anyone out there no if there is a fix for a Bendix Aviation 2-speed that jumps out of high gear?
> 
> 
> View attachment 1381625



Nice bike


----------



## mrg (Jun 12, 2021)

In my limited bendix exp it’s usually cable adjustment


----------



## Mountain Trail Andy (Jun 12, 2021)

mrg said:


> In my limited bendix exp it’s usually cable adjustment



Thx.  I think I maxed it out the last time I adjusted it but I give it another shot sometime next week.....and if that doesn't work I will go internal.


----------



## mrg (Jun 12, 2021)

With the medal cable housing any little kink messes with it, I have one that jumps out of gear till I yank on the cable housing and it settles in.🥺


----------



## Mountain Trail Andy (Jun 13, 2021)

mrg said:


> With the medal cable housing any little kink messes with it, I have one that jums out of gear till I yank on the cable housing and it settles in.🥺



Thx.  That sounds similar to what I have experienced.  I'll let you know if I find a solution to the problem.


----------



## catfish (Jun 13, 2021)

I love them !!!


----------



## Jon Olson (Jun 13, 2021)

Kickback yellow on my 1936 Schwinn cycleplane and Bendex  aviator 2-speed on my 1950 Schwinn Phantom, only way to go at 73 years old!


----------



## srfndoc (Jun 25, 2021)

Finally got around to building the 2 speed setup using an Ichibike 11T cog with a Sturmey Archer S2C rear hub.  Worked out really nice, love the gearing.


----------



## Mr. Monkeyarms (Jun 25, 2021)

Only one ride on my first bike with functioning 2 speed that I picked up at the TCB Swap a couple weeks ago and digging it so far!


Can't wait to go through the bike & set up to my preference! 🤓


----------



## Schwinny (Jun 25, 2021)

srfndoc said:


> Finally got around to building the 2 speed setup using an Ichibike 11T cog with a Sturmey Archer S2C rear hub.  Worked out really nice, love the gearing.
> 
> View attachment 1435673
> View attachment 1435674



The best setup in my experience. Congrats!
Having a company making skip tooth sprockets for the SA hubs opens up a whole new selection of possibilities for the SA 3 speeds also. Shimano hubs too, come to think of it.
If you have an issue with yours changing gears seemingly by itself while coasting, it will go away after the hub has broken in a bit. Mine have. I have two of these hubs and recommend them. It's a whole new bike experience for me.
They have become quite popular and right now I think the only 2spd SA hubs available in the US are on Ebay. A closed bike shop in Phoenix had a grip of them and gave them up to an Ebay "sell for you" shop. There were 16 for sale at the beginning of June, now only 5. I haven't been able to find them anywhere else, and I looked extensively before I bought #12 there. Get em while they're hot !!

Speaking of ichibike... something I didn't know until just recently is that my uncle went to school with the owners at ichibike. We all grew up there in Des Moines and me being only four years younger than my uncle, used to hang out with them when he was forced to have me tag along during the summers.
For awhile they used to buy up every old bike in town, luckily they have backed off a bit and are concentrating on e-bikes.
I don't appreciate e-bikes so much but the fad (hopefully said) is going full gonzo right now, and ichibike is leading the way in the midwest.


----------



## srfndoc (Jun 25, 2021)

It's working really well so far.  I'm curious why Ichibike made the teeth profile for the 11T different than the 10T (which mirrors the ND model D profile).  I little filing down on the teeth was all that was needed but odd nonetheless.  Either way I'm stoked they are available to work with the SA hubs.  I've looked for a new one for months and you're right, Ebay is the only option at this point.  They fit the older Sachs as well but those are even harder to come by and more expensive. Really strange SA doesn't have a US distributor for these things.

Cool story about your family's connection to Ichibike.  Everything is e-bike crazy now so not surprising they went in that direction.


----------



## Schwinny (Jun 25, 2021)

srfndoc said:


> It's working really well so far.  I'm curious why Ichibike made the teeth profile for the 11T different than the 10T (which mirrors the ND model D profile).  I little filing down on the teeth was all that was needed but odd nonetheless.  Either way I'm stoked they are available to work with the SA hubs.  I've looked for a new one for months and you're right, Ebay is the only option at this point.  They fit the older Sachs as well but those are even harder to come by and more expensive. Really strange SA doesn't have a US distributor for these things.
> 
> Cool story about your family's connection to Ichibike.  Everything is e-bike crazy now so not surprising they went in that direction.



I'm wondering the same thing about the SA availability.
One thing that has changed of course is that Sturmey is now a Taiwan company. They changed the internals of all the SA available hubs and when they re-introduced the 2speed kick back in 2010-11' it initially had some big problems. The internet is full of bad reviews from that time period. I haven't seen a bad review since 14' though so I'm sure they corrected the issue. They would have to if they want to stay in business.
Also interesting to me is that the time tested SA 3 speed internals were changed from 2nd gear being direct drive and dropping for 1st - overdrive for 3rd, to 1st gear now being direct drive and 2nd / 3rd both being over drives.
That will switch up the gearing profiles for sure. I kinda like running 2nd gear as first primary traveling gear with 1st as a granny and 3rd actually usable as a faster gear. Basically using it as a two speed with a separate granny gear low for hills..
Now with the updated internals, I wonder if it would change anything except the sizes of the cog and sprocket for a usable range?
There are more of the good oldies out there that can be used in a million years though so there will be no shortage of those. I wonder how sales of the new version are going. They have really expanded the Sturmey line though. There are way more SA products out there now than there have ever been. Hubs, BB's, cranks, etc.


----------

