# Early Schwinn Continental Clubman?



## hzqw2l (May 9, 2022)

Local Markeplace find.

The BAD:
Knew from photos that the brakes were replaced but took the chance rims might be original.  Rims and brakes probably came from a 64 light weight since hub is dated 64.
Trigger shifter is later than the frame.

The GOOD:
Pencil taper stand.
Mint 40s saddle.
Nice 2pc deluxe stem.
Correct bars.
Early pat. Applied for Phillips pedals.

Early post war 5 digit serial with CM stamp.

Frame should clean up nicely.


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## 1motime (May 9, 2022)

Very nice find. Should be a fun project


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## rennfaron (May 9, 2022)

Nice find. Rarely seen in black. Also, light kit is early 60s.

135 frames after this superior.
Edit - 234 frames after this continental CM


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## J-wagon (May 9, 2022)

Nice. And around 250 away from this U66xxx with CM 








						1956 continental ?? | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

1956 continental custom racer ??  hi I got this with 2 other bikes and I am stumped ser # U66517 I thought these came out in 1960 and its not in the 56 Schwinn book also there is a C  M   stamped by the serial # any body got any thoughts?




					thecabe.com


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## hzqw2l (May 9, 2022)

I think the 5 digit SN makes it 46 to 48.

Not sure if CM really means clubman.

I couldn't pass it up at $300 since I really like the og black paint and decals.

Stem and saddle probably make it worthwhile to keep around and look for Era correct parts.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (May 9, 2022)

very cool bike. looks 

like they left the original brake clips for "girls bike" style cable routing on the frame. black is my favorite color.


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## GTs58 (May 9, 2022)

Schwinn stamped a mess of A + 5 serial numbers at the end of 1951.
 These lightweights have had serial numbers that didn't follow the Balloon serial numbers since they were first introduced in 39. All the prewar numbers on the three piece crank models had a letter and 4 digits, where the one piece crank lightweights had the machined stamped numbers as the Balloon models since they shared the same BB shells that were all machine stamped prior to being used in frame building. 

All the early post war three piece cranks shells were hand stamped until 1949 from what I've seen. Schwinn also ran about 3000+ machine stamped Tandem shells with the T00 numbers starting in 1949, and some of these were actually used building some of the lightweight models.


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## SirMike1983 (May 10, 2022)

A good buy at $300 - the black is kind of unusual and it goes well with the chrome and the frame graphics. Schwinn Built brake levers and calipers tend to be somewhat expensive, but if you really keep on top of the usual websites, you should find parts at a decent price eventually. They do turn up, it just takes a little time and money. On the other hand, the Weinmann aluminum calipers and levers are also pretty well-made and lighter too. A set of properly set up Weinmann levers and calipers, with Kool Stop pads, actually does a pretty good job if you're riding the bike. My Schwinn Superior is a 1949 or 50 model and has a three-piece crank and "T" series serial number on the bottom bracket.


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## cyclingday (May 10, 2022)

Very nice!


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## hzqw2l (May 11, 2022)

I think the CM stamp is most likely a crome moly tubing designation for production line use.
Probably allowed other mild steel lightweights to be part of a production sequence


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## GTs58 (May 11, 2022)

hzqw2l said:


> I think the CM stamp is most likely a crome moly tubing designation for production line use.
> Probably allowed other mild steel lightweights to be part of a production sequence




If that's the case, then all the Continentals including the step thru models would have that stamping.


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## bobcycles (May 11, 2022)

Sweet ride John!  If you decide to kick that one loose...I'd be interested!


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## Oilit (May 27, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> If that's the case, then all the Continentals including the step thru models would have that stamping.



Is there any difference in the frame between a Continental Clubman and a regular Continental? This question started me wondering - if it's just a matter of which parts were bolted on, why mark the frame? Looking at on-line catalogs, the 1952 catalog specifically says the Continental frame is chrome molybdenum, but the 1948 catalog just says best grade carbon steel "Seamless Drawn" tubing.





__





						Schwinn brochures and catalogs, 1951 - 1960 (14 of 157)
					





					waterfordbikes.com
				









						1948 Schwinn Catalog
					

1948 Schwinn Catalog online



					bikehistory.org


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## hzqw2l (May 27, 2022)

Years ago I had a 1976 factory orange painted Mongoose bmx bike.  It had CM for chrome moly stamped on the bottom bracket to distinguish it from painted mild steel frames painted on the same paint line.

That's why I think the CM stamp is not for Clubman


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## Oilit (May 27, 2022)

hzqw2l said:


> Years ago I had a 1976 factory orange painted Mongoose bmx bike.  It had CM for chrome moly stamped on the bottom bracket to distinguish it from painted mild steel frames painted on the same paint line.
> 
> That's why I think the CM stamp is not for Clubman



It would make sense. I've got a '49 New World with the smaller three piece crank bottom bracket and a "U" serial, and I'm pretty sure there was never a chrome-moly New World. What diameter are your frame tubes?









						1949 New World with Stainless S-6 Rims | Lightweight Schwinn Bicycles
					

Reading some of the threads on here got me interested in the Schwinn New Worlds, and then this one showed up on Ebay, so you can guess the rest. I paid full retail, and then I spent as much again taking Amtrak to go pick it up, so I'm already in the hole on this one, but luckily I've still got...




					thecabe.com


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## GTs58 (May 27, 2022)

Oilit said:


> It would make sense. I've got a '49 New World with the smaller three piece crank bottom bracket and a "U" serial, and I'm pretty sure there was never a chrome-moly New World. What diameter are your frame tubes?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




All the Continentals were Chro-mo so doing the CM stamp for the frame material would probably be a waste of time. I can't say what is all different if anything on the frames between the two, but all the Continentals did not have the CM stamping.   

Clubman.






Here's a good close up of Kramai88's 1946 step thru Conti. No sign of a CM stamp. And to be honest, I would have noticed a CM stamping on all the other regular Continentals that I've seen over the years. I've seen diamond and bell stamps on these early Conti's and I still have no idea what those signify. Could the Clubman be equipped with the Paramount crank spindle and that's why the CM was stamped?


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## Schwinny (May 28, 2022)

hzqw2l said:


> Years ago I had a 1976 factory orange painted Mongoose bmx bike.  It had CM for chrome moly stamped on the bottom bracket to distinguish it from painted mild steel frames painted on the same paint line.
> 
> That's why I think the CM stamp is not for Clubman



Im not sure how any Mongoose correlates with a 40's Schwinn.....

So I would say that it may be time for an Early Continental serial number registry thread...

Have we set the pencil stand dates in stone? Somthing else we've seen on Clubman Continentals is the different ring gear. Is shows in the ads we've seen

Here is a pic of my Supposed 47' Continental BB
Obviously hand stamped.
Star before the serial number.
Pencil kick stand that is slightly bent to conform to the chain stay when in up position.
Also notice the direction the serial number is stamped. Starts from the drive side.
I bought it as a frame with fork and Crank only, then built it up from there.
The BB is definitely period, and if original is a Phillips (stamped so) but no telling on that of-course.

Fully built up with fenders and all, it weighs 32 pounds. In my experience, the early Chro-Mo and Hi-Mang framed bikes are still on the heavy side since most of the parts on them are still steel parts. The similarly equipped bikes made of standard mild steel are 5-8 pounds heavier.


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## Oilit (May 28, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> All the Continentals were Chro-mo so doing the CM stamp for the frame material would probably be a waste of time. I can't say what is all different if anything on the frames between the two, but all the Continentals did not have the CM stamping.
> 
> Clubman.
> View attachment 1634768
> ...



But is seamless drawn steel tubing chrome moly? Was this a change in terminology or a change in materials? Chrome molybdenum is a particular alloy of steel, but seamless drawn tubing just means it's drawn instead of rolled and welded.


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## GTs58 (May 28, 2022)

Oilit said:


> But is seamless drawn steel tubing chrome moly? Was this a change in terminology or a change in materials? Chrome molybdenum is a particular alloy of steel, but seamless drawn tubing just means its drawn instead of rolled and welded.




I would think so. I don't remember seeing a decal on a Schwinn stating Chrome-moly until much later.


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## SirMike1983 (May 28, 2022)

Yes, I believe they also used that frame decal on pre-war New Worlds that were seamless tubing fillet brazed togther, but not CrMo.
Decal on a pre-war New World:





 There's a later frame decal that states CrMo, and which looks similar but isn't the same thing. The Continental frames I've owned over the years did not have "CM" on any of them. They all were partial bikes or upright tourist type models. They were CrMo without the "CM" stamp. I've never owned the Clubman variant.


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## Oilit (May 28, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> I would think so. I don't remember seeing a decal on a Schwinn stating Chrome-moly until much later.
> 
> View attachment 1635156



I'm like you, I thought all the early Continentals had chrome moly frames, but now I'm wondering. The 1952 catalog was the first to actually say "chrome molybdenum" that I could find. All I really know about drawn tubing is from this 1959 video on Youtube:


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## Schwinny (May 28, 2022)

Seamless tubing can be of any alloy used. It is drawn through a machine at high temperature, as opposed to being rolled over a form and contact welded together at high temp. Seamless tubing was just the new way of doing things and they had decals to tout that their bikes were being made this "new" way. Schwinn was not a pioneer in seamless tubing. There is a video I've seen in the VCC library that shows it being done. Ingots in one side and tubing out the other.
Kind of like the progression of tech in cars during the 80's when "fuel injection" "EFI" and those kinds of badges were on the backs of cars. Once it Became the norm, the badges went away.
Considering that the World and other lightweight models were being made with electric welded construction and the Continentals weren't, Id say its an easy step to say that brazing unlugged frames out of mild steel makes little sense. it would make them much heavier than a electro-welded frame. The brazing material is brass/bronze which is heavier stuff to begin with. There would be no advantage to this.

Now, how much of the frame was Chro-Mo is another story. The Super Sports in the 60's thru early 70s are "said" to have only the main tubing Chro-Mo and the stays mild steel. They are 30 pound bikes with much lighter components on them than these old Continentals, so I tend to believe that. 
Anybody got a mass-spectrometer?


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## Oilit (May 30, 2022)

Schwinny said:


> Seamless tubing can be of any alloy used. It is drawn through a machine at high temperature, as opposed to being rolled over a form and contact welded together at high temp. Seamless tubing was just the new way of doing things and they had decals to tout that their bikes were being made this "new" way. Schwinn was not a pioneer in seamless tubing. There is a video I've seen in the VCC library that shows it being done. Ingots in one side and tubing out the other.
> Kind of like the progression of tech in cars during the 80's when "fuel injection" "EFI" and those kinds of badges were on the backs of cars. Once it Became the norm, the badges went away.
> Considering that the World and other lightweight models were being made with electric welded construction and the Continentals weren't, Id say its an easy step to say that brazing unlugged frames out of mild steel makes little sense. it would make them much heavier than a electro-welded frame. The brazing material is brass/bronze which is heavier stuff to begin with. There would be no advantage to this.
> 
> ...



I came to the same conclusion, although from a different angle. In the video it shows both processes, and it looks like drawn tubing is a more involved and labor-intensive process. I doubt anybody's going to the trouble just to draw mild steel, you can roll and weld it faster and cheaper. But it doesn't say what alloy they were using for the drawn tubes.


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