# ''Neverout'' Oil Lamps for the WWI Columbia and Great Western Military Bicycle



## hoofhearted (Mar 17, 2018)

*Purchased this pair NOS Neverout Oil Lamps for the Columbia
and Great Western WWI Military Bicycles.

The Harley-Davidson and Davis-Dayton would not be fitted 
with these olive-drab specimens, as their models are painted
black ... perhaps Brewster-Green.

One of the biggest mysteries regarding the Neverout Military
oil (kerosene) lamps .... for me .... is in the stamping of the 
U.S.A. marking.

Never mind that any ''U.S.A.''- stamped, Neverout lamp is made 
out of impossibilium ...... the lamps that are stamped with the
''U.S.A.'' appearing below the surface of the oil-tank, holding-
area are made of unobtainium .......

Having seen ONLY ONE of these stamped below the surface
lamps ... I wondered if it was a counterfeit lamp-stamping.

But when I saw this pair of ''U.S.A.'' specimens ... each exhibit-
ing a different stamping of the same information ... well, it was
like Stormy Daniels fluttering her eyelashes at me in the produce
section of Walmart .....

The mystery, however, still continues in a slightly different tangent.
Which came first ... the chicken .. or, the chicken sammich ?

..... patric
*
*Below the Surface stamping ... first one I'd ever seen .............*
*


 






*


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## Mercian (Mar 17, 2018)

Hi Patric,

Congratulations, my search continues...

The October 1918 dated handbook is especially nice, and must be nearly unique.

I'm fairly certain that the first lamp is not pressed below the surface of the tank, but is pressed out like the two you've just bought. II thought the same as you when I first saw it, but then came to the conclusion it was an optical illusion due to the dark wear on the plating on the high points of the USA giving the impression of shadow. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time...

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## hoofhearted (Mar 17, 2018)

Mercian said:


> Hi Patric,
> 
> Congratulations, my search continues...
> 
> ...




*Adrian ... each of these lamps has a stamping 
technology that is different from one-another.

The lamp on the left (second foto) features the 
''pressed-out'' stamping.  

The lamp on the right is a ''below the surface'' 
stamping.  Both lamps are in original, but not 
exactingly-matched WWI olive-drab paint.

Some, but not all, paint has fallen away in the 
past 100 years.

Good to hear from you -- Adrian !!

..... patric




*


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## hoofhearted (Mar 17, 2018)

*
Adrian ... you may have something with that optical illusion stuff .......



 *


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## 2jakes (Mar 17, 2018)

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## 2jakes (Mar 17, 2018)

*MOTORCYCLE ILLUSTRATED    JULY 1, 1909*
*

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## Bozman (Mar 18, 2018)

2jakes said:


> *MOTORCYCLE ILLUSTRATED    JULY 1, 1909*
> *View attachment 772361 *



My question is did the WWI military bike have this motorcycle clamp or the bicycle clamp?   

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## 2jakes (Mar 18, 2018)

Bozman said:


> My question is did the WWI military bike have this motorcycle clamp or the bicycle clamp?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk




Found this ad from 1913 regarding this particular lamp with the dual clamps by Neverout which was offered 
in addition to a gas headlight for civilian motorcycles.
Whether the WWI military bike have this motorcycle clamp, I don't know.


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## hoofhearted (Mar 18, 2018)

*For CABE member ... Bozman ......*
*


 



 *


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## Bozman (Mar 18, 2018)

hoofhearted said:


> *
> 
> View attachment 772954
> 
> View attachment 772943 *



It will be interesting to test my Neverout with Kerosene and see how hot it gets.  I wonder if it would blister modern OD paint.  

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## Bozman (Mar 19, 2018)

hoofhearted said:


> *Purchased this pair NOS Neverout Oil Lamps for the Columbia
> and Great Western WWI Military Bicycles.
> 
> The Harley-Davidson and Davis-Dayton would not be fitted
> ...



I'd love to see those instructions reproduced.  Inquiring minds wand to know how to operate our Neverouts.  

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## hoofhearted (Mar 19, 2018)

Bozman said:


> I'd love to see those instructions reproduced.  Inquiring minds wand to know how to operate our Neverouts.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk




*Bozman ... I will be sure to foto the instructions
and computer-reproduce them ... offering the
entire repro Neverout manual for a very-reason-
able fee of one-hundred dollars .. sent to you 
thru the CABE PM Feature.

Well, not really on that last part.  

Having great respect for the inquiring mind, I will 
make sure accurate copies are published in this 
particular thread. 

Seller says pack o' lamps to be delivered by this
Saturday.

..... patric

BTW, Bozman ... one of my favorite features of this
lamp is that kitchen match striking-plate (cheese-
grater) lead soldered to the lower-inside of the
flame cabin.  Brilliant !!





 
*


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## Bozman (Mar 20, 2018)

Thank you brother! Sharing is caring!  The striker is something I've never seen on any other Neverout lamps.  I'm awaiting one in the mail that may be one of the embossed inward lamps.  My guess is that they embossed them inward to use existing stock to sell to the Army to meet the demand.  

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## hoofhearted (Mar 22, 2018)

*Just received matched pair, NOS Neverout
kerosene lamps for application on WWI
military bicycles.

WOW ... so minty ...... both lamps have U.S.A.
stampings that stick outward.  Coulda sworn 
one of the fotos I have shows letters that push
into the metal.  Both have strikers.

Pamphlet is almost exactly 3X5 inches -- extremely
fragile.  Four pages -- front and back.

Will get some snaps when I can.

..... patric*


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## Bozman (Mar 23, 2018)

Sweetness! I just received my USA Neverout today also.  It's got a cracked lens but I have a parts lamp with a good lens. Now I have to figure out a way to replace the glass.  The stamping is outward also.  On closer inspection i noticed that all lamps have the striker plate on the inside. 

Here is a shot of the three different clamps for the Neverout.  The black one is one I picked up with a sweet NOS civilian nickel plated Neverout.  It will go on one of my civilian 1913 Columbia Model 213. 





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## Mercian (Mar 23, 2018)

Hi Bozman,

Congratulations.

This is the same lamp as illustrated in post 1. Compare the crack in the glass! So that answers whether it was inward or outward.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## hoofhearted (Mar 24, 2018)

*
Reading that li'l 3''x 5'' Neverout pamphlet just now,
learned, among many things -- Use Only Kerosene, 
Keep Flame Low .... repeated numerous times AND
in order for the lamp to function, well -- the user is
asked to keep the reflector clean. 

The manufacturer facilitates the cleaning by installing
a clear, glass, cover for the flame reflector.  If you should
ever need a replacement, one will be available at your
local jewelry store in the form of a No. 22 Watch Crystal
for ten-cents.

Soon as I can find my cell fone ... I hate cell fones ... am
gonna foto the pamphlet.  The pamphlet is every-bit as
fragile as that document that was found in a cave, in
the Middle-East back in the 1940's.  Not Kidding.

..... patric




 *


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## Bozman (Mar 24, 2018)

An amazing find.  Kind of like the Dead Sea scrolls.  Only cooler. 

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## Bozman (Sep 22, 2018)

I think I have a Neverout lamp addiction. I was able to find several lamps that where boken or missing parts and I'm going to use them to build out complete USA stamped lamps. I have lucked out and found an unissued WWI OD painted lamp. It still has the instructions in it dated from 1918. The top was missing but I was able to paint a spare part top and age it to match the existing paint. I also came across both original black and OD painted lamps with worn paint. 



















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## bikejunk (Sep 22, 2018)

Those clamping brackets also work on model T Ford type window frames or most automobile window frames od the era--do you think it was fork mount or handle bar mount -any illustrations of that ?


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## Bozman (Sep 22, 2018)

bikejunk said:


> Those clamping brackets also work on model T Ford type window frames or most automobile window frames od the era--do you think it was fork mount or handle bar mount -any illustrations of that ?



Fork mounted lamps. 






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## Bozman (Sep 22, 2018)

Tried out one of the lamps tonight. One of the repair parts lamps had a bale added to it. So I added it to one of the beat up models I just repainted. Somewhere in its life someone replaced the front lens. Lead soldered it in place. Painted it today with some OD paint which almost matches the original OD paint perfectly. Happy to repro that the metal doesn't get hot enough to melt or burn the paint. 











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## hoofhearted (Sep 23, 2018)

*Lovin' that paint color, Bozman. !!*

*Took the liberty of purpose-identifying the 
different clamps of Neverout production ...
using Bosman's foto.*

*A purist may reject  this finding ... the 2-claw 
type auto or carriage bracket will work on a 
bicycle fork ... thin leather insulators are recom-
mended between the claw and the fork.  This
type clamp bracket can be used until a correct
one is obtained.  Maybe you will be happy with
the somewhat less-correct bracket ... it does,
in fact, do the job.  *

*It is my experience that proclaims those Motor-
cycle / Military Bicycle Neverout brackets are a
real challenge to locate,*

*...... patric*


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## hoofhearted (Sep 23, 2018)

View attachment 873060


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## bikejunk (Sep 23, 2018)

Great somthin new to look for at this years Hershey ...


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## 2jakes (Sep 23, 2018)

Patric...Here’s a minty lamp by Solar.



looks similar to this lantern from about 100 years ago.



Close up



The lamp clamp has built-in felt material for protection when attached to the frame.


Match strike plate inside of this one.







EDIT:
 Just noticed “Swastika” image in the above foto. It's actually a pre-war bicycle bell ringer made in the US.
Long before  WW2, this was an ancient sign of ”good luck”.


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## Bozman (Sep 24, 2018)

Here is a picture of the other type of clamp as shown in two period photographs. 







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## bikejunk (Oct 15, 2018)

Hey guys thanks for the info !! dumb luck at Hershey light and bracket from the same vendor --match strike -OD paint (under the silver wash) and the bracket even has that little bend you mentioned -just perfect for my WW1 Columbia project


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## bikejunk (Oct 15, 2018)

Looking at it it is the same color as my original paint 1917 Triumph --incredible variation in the first war on paint as well as die lots on fabric as well ...


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## Bozman (Oct 24, 2018)

Great score! Just missing the bottom cap to the fuel tank. Just look around, you can usually find a busted up parts one for a few bucks. 

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## Mercian (Oct 25, 2018)

Bozman said:


> Great score! Just missing the bottom cap to the fuel tank. Just look around, you can usually find a busted up parts one for a few bucks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk




Hi All,

missing the rear screw too, but there's a parts one for sale at the moment with the necessary bits (no connection to seller).

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/parts-lantern.141319/#post-943102

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## bricycle (Oct 25, 2018)

Bozman said:


> I think I have a Neverout lamp addiction. I was able to find several lamps that where boken or missing parts and I'm going to use them to build out complete USA stamped lamps. I have lucked out and found an unissued WWI OD painted lamp. It still has the instructions in it dated from 1918. The top was missing but I was able to paint a spare part top and age it to match the existing paint. I also came across both original black and OD painted lamps with worn paint. View attachment 872435View attachment 872436View attachment 872437View attachment 872438View attachment 872439View attachment 872440View attachment 872441View attachment 872442View attachment 872443
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk



no wonder I caint find one....


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## ChadC (Mar 18, 2019)

When these were mounted to a military bicycle, were they left brass or were they painted? OD, black, etc?


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## hoofhearted (Mar 18, 2019)

ChadC said:


> When these were mounted to a military bicycle, were they left brass or were they painted? OD, black, etc?




Great Western and Westfield Columbia military lamps ..... OD.
Davis Dayton and Harley Davidson .... Black.


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## ChadC (Mar 18, 2019)

Great, thank you. I want to make sure I get it right.


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## hoofhearted (Mar 19, 2019)

*Thought You'ld Like To Know ......*

*Here's one ... appears NOS ... wi*th heavy-duty
*bicycle / motorcycle clamp .....*

*Ebay Auction... priced @ $9.95 plus $19.95 shipping ...
no bids for several hours.*

*Contacted seller ... offered $300,00 plus $20 (VISA).
Seller did not respond.*

*Once the bidding started ... decided to back off on a bid.
I need another one of these like I need a side-car for a 
wheelchair. *

*The bracket really did excite me, 'tho ... as did the raised 
U.S.A. on the lamp.*

*My lesson ... Can I Learn To Be Happy With What I've Got ?*

*Having OCD since 1947 ... I wanted to kick myself for not
bidding.  But there comes a time .. when an old pirate like 
me realizes that I will never build more than one Davis-Built 
H-D Military Model. *

*I committed to the choice to Back-Off.*

*Watched that auction like Kim Jong Un perusing Craig's List ...
lookin'' for a real Betty to love him long time.*

*Still committed ... watched the auction play-out to the end.*

*$262.00 plus post of $19.95.  Twenty-some bids .. 9 Bidders.
Not posting I.D. Numbers  ... but I will tell you this ... for one 
reason or another .. the unit was posted at the very end of a 
long run of these lamps .. in every condition imaginable ......
(none with the U.S.A.) ... and get this - it also followed every Never-
out Lamp Advertizement or piece of printed literature that was 
available (about these lamps) in the auctions on Ebay ..  at the time.  *

*I NEVER look to see what is available in ads or lit. 'Cept this once.*

*I believe if the auction was located above the paper items .. among 
the metal relics .. well .. it may have brought better money.*

*Still have Three-Hundred Plus Simoleons ... and my bride is still 
the Betty I married nearly fifty years ago.*

..... patric


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## ChadC (Mar 19, 2019)

Lol...too funny. Thanks for the good read, needed it.


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## hoofhearted (Mar 19, 2019)

hoofhearted said:


> *Watched that auction like Kim Jong Un perusing Craig's List ...
> lookin'' for a real Betty to love him long time.*


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## Mercian (Mar 20, 2019)

Hi Patric & C°.

I will admit to being the underbidder here. )-: 

I would have bid more, but the postage to Europe (plus importation tax) is substantially more than internal shipping in the US, which tends to moderate my bids somewhat. Anyway, I was off by a reasonable amount, since the buyer had upped his bid three times before my final shot, and I didn't exceed even the lowest of those bids.

Plus, I only really need the bracket. (Well, I don't 'need' anything, it's a nice to have), which also tempers the bidding.

I was leaving it a short while before putting up the same bracket/lamp shots, in case the buyer was on here. I notice the final buyer has previously bought vintage motorcycle parts, so I guess it may be destined for that?

The ID numbers for bidders are randomly allocated to each auction to prevent bidder identification. In the past, bidder's full names were used, so you could see who you were bidding against.

I was surprised by the number of individual bidders, although once we got into three figures, most dropped away.

Until the next time,

Best Regards,

Adrian

.


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## Bozman (Mar 20, 2019)

Like Patrick I'm drawn to these lamps like a moth to a kerosene lamp flame! I did not bid on this beauty and I'm glad I didn't see it........I've picked up a quite few over the past few years.  They range from NOS, to used gently, to battlefield hardened, to parts only. 

I took my 1918 Columbia Military Model out the other night and drove around the neighborhood with the Neverout as my light. They throw off a surprising amount of light when you put a new wick in them.


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## Mercian (Mar 23, 2019)

Oh well, it's all swings and roundabouts....

after the mild disappointment of the lamp above, this week I did buy another variation of the Military Neverout in France for half the price of the one above's postage from the US.

This one is a nice survivor, lightly used, with scorches on the paint, but with the majority of the original Army olive paint still in place.

And no USA stamped on the front.

As a guess, perhaps an early "off the shelf" lamp supplied to start the military contract (WW1 contracts were urgent to start with, going to war was slightly unexpected), before the tooling was modified to stamp USA?

Apart from the burner being stuck in the lamp, I am very happy with it.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Bozman (Mar 23, 2019)

You can ease the burner out of the lamp by placing a slotted screwdriver in the slots next to the adjustment knob. Press down and it will come out. 

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## Mercian (Mar 23, 2019)

Hi Boz,

Thanks for the help (-:

It was a bit tougher than that, I was concerned about bending the slots with the force I put on it. In the end I eased the tube surrounding the burner away from the burner a little at a time with a knife tip, and squirted WD40 down the gap. Eventually there were two or three faint crunching sounds, and it was free. There were a couple of spots of verdigris on the inside of the tube gluing the burner in, but they cleaned off without a problem.

The original wick had been completely wound down into the lamp, and there seems to be paraffin wax in it, which I guess is evaporated lamp oil reidue. I'm going to clean this one out, and get hold of a new wick and oil, and fire it up. (-:

Have a Good Weekend,

Adrian


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## ChadC (Mar 23, 2019)

I was just in the hardware store, which of course there's no cell reception so I couldn't look it up....these use plain old lamp oil and wicks?


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## Bozman (Mar 23, 2019)

ChadC said:


> I was just in the hardware store, which of course there's no cell reception so I couldn't look it up....these use plain old lamp oil and wicks?



I've replaced a few of my lamp wicks with new lamp wicks. You just need the same width. When you fill the lamp make sure you drain out any excess kerosene that pools in the fiberglass wool. 

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## Mercian (Apr 2, 2019)

Hi All,

In case it's of use to anyone, there's a USA marked Neverout in the original paint for sale here:

https://www.antaresfurnishings.com/products/antique-bicycle-lamp 

No connection with seller, etc.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## hoofhearted (Apr 2, 2019)

Mercian said:


> Hi All,
> 
> In case it's of use to anyone, there's a USA marked Neverout in the original paint for sale here:
> 
> ...



...............................................
...............................................

*@Mercian *

Thanks for posting, Adrian ... Deal O' the Day for someone *!!*

.... patric


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## blackcat (Apr 21, 2019)

Hello;
Small finds from home, 2 beautiful lamps NEVEROUT with their supports.
a first model and a second model no stamped USA.






























Look a t the number of rivets on the 3rd photo above the wheel for adjusting the wick.
Regards;
Serge


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## Mercian (Dec 10, 2019)

Hi All.

And just when you thought that everything to say about Neverout lamps had been said, here's another variation. (-:

I have this one on the way to me. When I first saw it, I passed it by as civilian because of the lack of paint, the lack of a U.S.A. stamped on the front, and the bail, which I thought was probably a later addition.

Then I looked more closely, and saw the U.S.A.





 The bail certainly is not correct for 'Military Model' bicycle lamps, but it is well done, and may be original (I hope to find out when it arrives), and so possibly there for use on another vehicle instead. Larger versions of these bails do appear on truck lights of the era.

Anyway, the interesting bit is the U.S.A. stamped on the side of the lamp, making it Military, and another place to look for markings. The bail is over the top of this, so is obviously added after the stamp.

I know from research for an article that I am writing that there was concern that early Military Model bicyles were not marked as US property, and I think that's why some frames are not marked, and others are marked USA. Same with the headbadge, I think the first ones are plain, and then the later ones have the extra U.S.A. stamped into them above Columbia.

With the Neverout lamps, an easily detachable piece, it would have been even more important to mark them. I have the plain unmarked one from post 41 above, where the only indication of it being military is the paint. I wondered then if this was an 'off the shelf' item to supply the Army urgently.

This one has no paint, but I think that they started stamping U.S.A. on an easily accessible part of the lamp to indicate military property.

I also think the ones with U.S.A. pressed into the skirt of the lamp follow this. Neverout have by now had time to modify their press tooling.

As ever, this is a theory, and I'm happy to discuss alternatives.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Mercian (Feb 14, 2020)

Hi All,

just as a follow up to the post above.

The brass polisher wasn't able to quite remove all the green paint, it's still there in those difficult to reach places.

The handle/bail appears original to the lamp, same 'tone' of brass, square (early 20th century) nuts, and the same amount of carbon on the bolt heads on the inside wherethe lamp has been used.

I still don't think this design is for a bicycle, but possibly for some other small motor vehice or motorcycle. Or, I suppose a cart or waggon.

I would imagine stamped USA ones like this do exist for bicycles, though.

I have asked on a forum dedictaed to WW1 vehicles, to a resounding silence!

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## blackcat (Feb 14, 2020)

Hello Adrian;
It just woudn't be the ancestor of  multi-use cantonment  military lamp like this WW2  DELTA POWERLIGHT LANTERN .



Regards;
Serge


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## ChadC (Feb 15, 2020)

Beautiful lamps!! Love that Delta Serge, wow!!!


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## Mercian (May 9, 2020)

Hi All,

In case it's of interest, there is an early unmarked Neverout lamp on Ebay US, with the original green paint here:









						ANTIQUE NEVEROUT INSULATED KEROSENE SAFETY LAMP-BICYCLE BUGGY HEADLIGHT-UNTESTED  | eBay
					

ANTIQUE NEVEROUT INSULATED KEROSENE SAFETY LAMP-HEADLIGHT BICYCLE BUGGY LANTERN BY ROSE MFG. PHILADELPHIA, PA.  IN NICE AGED CONDITION-GLASS IS CLEAR-PAINT SCRAPES-UNTESTED.



					rover.ebay.com
				




No connection with seller, etc.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## mike cates (May 15, 2020)

Just saw your thread on military lamps. I have nearly 100 carbide lamps still to go through that I have not advertised yet. Contact me via phone or my email address below if there's anything in particular you are looking for.
 Mike Cates
 (760) 473-6201
cates0321@hotmail.com


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## Mercian (Oct 11, 2020)

Some are unsavable, but may provide spare parts. 

This one is Ebay France (no connection with the seller) and has been heavily butchered, but the price reflects that, and it might be useful for spares? 

A previous owner has heavily modified it, including cutting part of the base off to make a clamp.









						Oil lamp kerosene bike motorcycle boat train? usa oil lamp brass  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Oil lamp kerosene bike motorcycle boat train? usa oil lamp brass at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!



					rover.ebay.com
				




Best Regards,

Adrian


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## blackcat (Oct 11, 2020)

Hello Adrian;
Yes indeed, it suffered a little but it is also at auction...
Regards;
Serge


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## Mercian (Apr 23, 2021)

Hi All,

Just received another (small) variation on this lamp. All military lamps I've had until now have had fairly thinly applied green paint. On this one, the paint is thicker, and a milky coffee (Café au Lait) brown. It's certainly the original paint, it's surprising how much it can vary.

It's missing the base, does anyone have a lead on a spare (of any colour?)

Thanks,

Adrian


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## Mercian (Feb 10, 2022)

Hi All,

I'm trying to make an effort not to buy these, but this one defeated me because a lot of the early ones not marked USA, and just painted green have had the original paint removed, and the brass polished up.

Also, it's the first military one I've seen which may have it's original bracket.

Well, those are my excuses. (-:

And it's just battered enough to put on my imperfect bike (-:

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## blackcat (Feb 10, 2022)

Hello Adrian;
Wow she is nice 😺
Regards;
Serge


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## Mercian (Feb 18, 2022)

Hi All,

I shouldn't have tempted fate with the photos of the lamp above:





*PROHIBITED OBJECT*
_Hello Adrian,

The purchase you recently made under the International Delivery Service with rkm4709 could not be completed.

The object in question has been restricted. This may be due to import or delivery restrictions, or International Delivery Service eligibility requirements. The item will not be sent to you, nor will it be returned to the seller.

Do not worry. You will be fully refunded to the payment method used to purchase the item within 72 hours. We will make two separate refunds: the first for the price of the object and the second for the shipping and import costs. No further action is required on your part._

Well, that's big of them. I especially like the 'No Appeals, and we're doing you a favour' bit.

Oh well. )-:

It's not the first time, though. I had one blocked once before with the double clamp. One of the guys on here (sorry, I forget who) eventually bought it from wherever these get sent for resale, so it's worth keeping an eye out for it.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## DaGasMan (Feb 20, 2022)

Evidemment la France a été sauvée de cette minuscule lanterne ! 
Vive la France! 😄


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## Jesse McCauley (May 20, 2022)

WW1 H-D / Dayton Neverout Headlight | Deal Or No Deal
					

Here’s a scarce lamp I bought recently in order to offer it to our little community-  Uncleaned as found in an antique shop.   The blackout Neverout “U.S.A.” stamped light was commissioned specifically for the WW1 era Davis Dayton Military (M-1) and Harley - Davidson Military (B-1) Models...




					thecabe.com
				




For your Neverout consideration…
A scarce blackout military model lamp complete with bracket.

Feel free to reach out with any questions or detail requests for posterity or interest.


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## Freqman1 (May 30, 2022)

Ed why not just put all these pics in the same post?


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## catfish (May 30, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> Ed why not just put all these pics in the same post?



Good question.


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