# 1949 Birmingham Hercules 3-speeds



## letseatpaste (Nov 9, 2008)

I just picked up a set of bikes, a men's and women's Hercules 3-speed from 1949.  He even gave me the original receipt and a couple copies of old photographs with the bikes in them.  $59.95 each from Jake's bike shop in Denver.

He had taken them apart in the 80's to refinish them, got them primer'd up but never got around to painting them.  He kept all the parts in boxes and everything seems to be there except the seats and the grips.  Everything looks to be in pretty decent shape, except one of the fenders is cracked a bit.  

These were listed on Craigslist, the original owner's daughter was selling them for him.  I basically emailed and said I didn't want to insult them with a lowball offer, but if they didn't have any takers after a while I might be interested in taking them off their hands.  After about a week and a half she emailed back and I ended up paying $20 for each bike.  I think he hated to see them go for that, but I mostly just didn't want to see these get sent to the dump.

I'm having a hard time finding much info on these... In particular I'm trying to figure out how desirable these bikes are, and how far I should take any kind of restoration.  I don't want to put a ton of time and money into getting a nice quality paint job and finding correct seats and grips and other parts and then find out they're worth $100-150.  Most of the bikes I've seen sold or for sale have been 60's or 70's Hercules made in Nottingham.

Anyway, if anyone has any comments or can point me to some more solid references on these bikes, that'd be great.  These are the pics she had sent, I didn't get a chance to take pics before I stashed them away this afternoon.  They have caliper brakes and the Hercules shifter that mounts on the top tube.


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## sam (Nov 9, 2008)

They will be worth about just that.In the $150 to $200 range.
A good site to find out about them is oldroads.com
Wards depart store was the importer for hercules bicycles.


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## zuissjw1 (Nov 11, 2008)

I would agree with the prior estimate.  If they had rod brakes and/or a dynohub and lights or were the 28" wheel models they might go a bit higher.  The handlebars shown didn't have the rod brake rods so at least one is not a rod brake model.  After that you get into the details of the condition and originality of the remaining parts.  The originality should be high since you have a one owner bike.  The condition maybe not so much as these bikes really had pretty good paint and if they required a repaint they must have sat out or gotten pretty scratched up.  Did he save the original head badges when he decided to paint?  If you clean up pieces you might get almost as much parting out.  I don't do that myself for complete bikes, but unfortunately the value of the parts is equal to or greater than most assembled bikes.  There are enough collectors looking for pieces to complete their projects.  So, I guess you could look at parting out as helping others complete their bikes, but please be a bit gentle on prices.  

I have a 1953 men's Churchill Deluxe large frame (made by Hercules pre Raleigh) that has 26inch wheels, rod brakes and the dynohub/front light (still missing dyno rear light).  It also has the fully enclosed chain guard.  It has been repainted so has no decals but retains the front head badge.  Being a Hercules it has the Herc-U-Matic rear hub (undated) and shifter so I got my year of manufacture off the Sturmey Archer front dynohub.  The guy I bought from said his parents bought while in the service in Germany in mid 1950's so I think I have a model that wasn't directly imported into the US.  I paid $100 and then did a full cleaning/rebuild but no restoration.  Not being original paint, I would guess mine is worth in the $200-250 range.  Good Luck


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## letseatpaste (Nov 11, 2008)

Both are almost all original as near as I can tell, except one set of pedals had been switched for some Union pedals, but the original Hercules pedals from that bike are there, just missing a set of rubber blocks and one of the cover plates. 

Head badges are still there, riveted to the frame, completely primer'd over.  On each bike he hadn't removed the right side bearing cups or the headset cups, I think he must have taped off the headset cups. 

Both seats had also been thrown out as he said they were rotten, wish he'd have saved those.  Grips are missing.  Cable housings are pretty rotted.  All the chrome is real clean, though, on the handlebars and rims, I don't think they had done any work to clean up the chrome.

I'm still debating parting them out.   It'd be a shame to part out mostly complete bikes, but I'd rather reserve my time/money/energy to work on bikes I really like.

By the way, what's the best way to remove a riveted head badge, and the best way to reattach after painting?


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## zuissjw1 (Nov 11, 2008)

Head badges, right side (fixed) bearing cap, and headset cups all take a bit of special knowledge and/or tools to remove so it figures that they weren't removed.  Although I haven't done this myself, removing the head badges shouldn't be too difficult, especially since the fork is already out of the frame.  You should be able to take either a small chisel on the inside of the head tube and 'knock off' the inside of the 'rolled rivet' or take a file and file from inside the head tube.  The owner may not have known about the usual reverse (left hand) threads on the fixed cup, and almost definately didn't have a headset cup remover tool nor the press to put them back in.

For replacing the head badge the correct way is to find some new brass pins and rerivet.  This involves using a large round rod in the head tube.  I might use a glue (like a silicone seal) behind the badge and in the rivet holes to hold in place.  It's not like there is any real force on them other than vibration.  I have had some luck using OOPs paint remover to remove overspray on frames or more often what appears to be latex paint splatter.  It still requires a bit of hard hand rubbing.  This might work on the head badge primer removal.  I'm not sure the color process used on these head badges and how carefull you need to be.

Many of these bikes would have had some type of Brooks saddle (either mattress or leather) and these are readily found but not necessarily cheap.  

Again, Good luck and send me a PM if you want any specific information or ideas.


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## letseatpaste (Nov 11, 2008)

The headset cups are just a press fit, correct?  I used to work at a bike shop and had the tools, but at home I've had good luck with very careful use of a punch and hammer for removal.  I think he probably just didn't know about the reverse thread on the BB.  Overall I just don't think he was all that careful, the seat post bolt was painted along with the frame.  He apparently did get it back to bare metal before he painted everything, was hoping maybe there was original paint under the primer.

The Hercules 3-speed hubs are very similar to older Sturmey Archer from what I understand, is that correct?  I don't have a whole lot of 3-speed experience but I have the 2-volume Schwinn shop service manuals that cover most of the old Sturmey Archer hubs.

The front hub has an oil inlet, should I grease these bearings like I would normally, or should I just use a heavy-weight oil like what maybe used to be intended?

Thanks again for the info, it's very helpful.


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## zuissjw1 (Nov 11, 2008)

Yes, the headset cups are just a press fit.  I've even had some that were a bit less than a press fit that I had to bring up a few edges around the circumference to help it not rotate.  The headset for your Hercules is probably the quantity 30 loose 1/8" balls top and bottom.  This is opposed to the 25 used by the Raleigh family (at least the later ones I've worked on).  I don't know about you, but I have good connections with a local bike shop and they have generally let me use some of their specialty tools in exchange for my business.  This might work on the cup remover tool.  I work on so many 3 speeds of english origin that I finally bought myself the tool to press out the cotter pins in the cottered cranks.  I bought mine from BikeSmith Designs (up in Minneapolis area) and it makes the job easy.  I also use it to put the pins back in properly.  I also bought the bottom bracket cup remover tool which is required on some of the very tight fixed cups.  This tool is Raleigh family specific and wouldn't fit your pre-Raleigh Hercules bike.

Yes, the Hercules 3 speed was much like a Sturmey Archer hub.  Even on these, when I rebuild them I use grease in the two outer retained bearings and on the inner loose bearings.  I use just a bit of mid weight oil on the planetary gears and assembly.  This is really in answer to your question about the front hub.  I use the new synthetic bicycle specific grease (like Park's) for all bearings after a good cleaning.  Often the old grease and oil has dried up and it kind of leaves a hard shellac like residue that will flake/scrape off easy enough.  Degreasing these old bikes (as many also had oil ports in the bottom bracket) is job number 1 to see what is underneath it all.  The oiliest bikes usually have the best potential as this layer of oil and dirt seem to protect the paint and metal/chrome underneath.

When you commented earlier about the bikes you like to work on, I take from your experience that this may be the mid-weight and  balloon tire Schwinn's?  I recently refurbished a 1962 for my local bike shop for one of their customers.  They had seen some of my work and didn't want to take the time for a complete tear down, cleaning, polishing and detailing.  The bike was a Schwinn Jaguard Mk IV (with original tank and after my repair a working horn).  That was my first Schwinn.  I still prefer the English lightweights, but they don't have the value of these old Schwinns.  That brings up a possible sale alternative, maybe you can find someone who would want to trade you a bike more along your lines for these two.  Every region seems to have their own hot and cold models and what is reasonably priced here might have more interest to you and vice versa.  John


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## letseatpaste (Nov 11, 2008)

Yeah, for now the Schwinn balloon tire and middleweights are what gets my brain hopping right now, though I do have matching '74 Schwinn 3-speeds (Breeze and Speedster) that I recently picked up for me and my wife.  I'm a heavy guy, so the lightweights feel a little less substantial when I ride.  My favorite now is a '53 Schwinn Meteor/Spitfire/Hornet (not sure) w/springer.  I picked these Hercules up mainly because I thought it was a shame to see them possibly get sent to the dumpster.

I used to use a cotter pin tool at the bike shop, but I probably wouldn't use one enough now to warrant the purchase.  I've just got these two and another 1963-ish Hawthorne/Hercules.  I think I can rig together a makeshift tool using a modified C-clamp or something if I need to for my limited use. 

I did have the thought of seeing about trading for an older Schwinn balloon tire or other brand, maybe if someone had some basket case that needed lots of work.  I don't know if you might be interested in trading for anything, let me know.  I'm from Northwest Arkansas and occasionally travel to/through KC so we could avoid shipping costs.  I could get better pics and an inventory of what's there if you think you might be interested.  If not, no worries, just thought about that when I saw you were from KC.

Thanks again for all the helpful info, especially the tip on the headset bearings.


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## sam (Nov 11, 2008)

Most of the time the fixed BB cup is not removed.To remove it calls for a special tool.I'd leave it in.And if selling the bikes as parts I'd offer the frame with BB,Headset and fork.


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## letseatpaste (Nov 11, 2008)

The fixed cup just threads into the frame with left-handed threads, right?  If I remember right it just has flats that I can get a crescent wrench on to remove from the frame.  I did lots of these at the bike shop and never ran into any that couldn't be removed with normal tools, but I probably never worked on one this old.


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## zuissjw1 (Nov 11, 2008)

I'm not hugely interested in these bikes mainly because I just don't do a lot of painting and don't do rattle can very good when I do.  It doesn't help that I have a dozen complete 3 speed bikes now.  I need to get busy and find buyers for a few of these that I have already refurbished.  It would also be a plus if the mens were the taller frame size (which it isn't).  Why don't you take an occasional look at the Kansas City Craigslist bikes and if you see something that you are interested in give me a shout and I could see if I could pick it up inexpensively for you as a possible trade.  If you were up this way and had them with you I would probably only match your initial purchase price and that doesn't do anything for you.  I am confident that I could get the pieces back together and depending on how many parts are missing I could get at least one runner.  I do enjoy working on them and get a sense of completion from turing a pile of parts into a working bicycle.  I just need to get better at selling them afterwards.

I agree with the other poster and in general don't pull the fixed cup.  Now that I have the special tool (for Raleigh that is) I on occasion will pull one if I think it is very dirty and needs a good cleaning.  Otherwise I can wipe clean through the bottom bracket and can likewise pack the race full of grease and carefully insert the individual balls in through the small hole while positioning them in the race with a finger in from the other side.  Although on the Hercules a large adjustable (or the proper sized wrench) can give you a reasonable grip, the face is pretty narrow and these have often never been removed since the factory installed (and some factory painted after that) and it is easy to round off the face.


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## letseatpaste (Nov 11, 2008)

The more I think about it the more I think I might part them out, just seems like too much work to get these together, and in my limited spare time I'd like to work on the bikes I'm really into.  Or if I'm passing through KC anytime soon I might see if I can take you up on your offer and just pass the deal along as I got it.


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## zuissjw1 (Nov 12, 2008)

OK, either sounds fine by me.  I PM'd (private messaged) my contact info to you in case you do find yourself coming towards KC and have space in your vehicle.  John


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