# Is My "Rare" CWC Goodyear Wings Marathon Pre-War or Post War?



## frankabr. (Sep 10, 2011)

Serial Number: B95634   It is skip tooth (but I know that does not make it definitely Pre-War).

Please let me know your thoughts,  
F.A.


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## Rear Facing Drop Out (Sep 10, 2011)

*Tough call...*

IS the light original? FRont loader is prewar top loader is postwar. Nice bike...Looks prewar 1940ish


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## frankabr. (Sep 10, 2011)

*The light is a front loader.*

Hi, The light is a front loader.   Also, here is a picture of the pedals (Person).  
Someone who had a serial number near mine said theirs was a 39 or 40.   Another poster said it is a late 47, early 48.   The bike is a rare CWC built Goodyear Wing Marathon.    It might be immediate pre or immediate post war, using pre-war parts.   Let me know what you think?


Thanks, F.A.


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## Overhauler (Sep 10, 2011)

*I have a Wards Hawthorne CWC*

This is the bicycle that got me started a little over a year ago .... now i have a herd  . The first thing i did was break it down and clean on the pieces , but then got the disease of looking for more bikes and this one got put on the back burner . Any way it looks alot like yours in the color and fender marks but the rest is a little different . The sprocket , the frame paint , and pedals are all different . I have done some research on mine with the badge and other elements , and i have come to the conclusion that it is a 40 or 41 , but i have never had anybody that knows alot more than me look at it either . So here are some pics , and the serial # is D12326 . When i get it back together i will post it ........ Sry so long .... Lee ............. 
  PS..... I forgot to mention it didn't have a tank and don't look like it ever did , and in stead of a light it had a swan


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## frankabr. (Sep 10, 2011)

*Thanks for the pictures.*

Mine is the same as yours, but for the Person's pedals.   And I believe that they are Pre-war.   Plus, my serial number starts with a "B."  Not sure what that means, but it comes before "D."   My torpedo light is front loading

I think my bike may well be immediate pre-war.   If it is immediate post-war, they put it together using pre-war parts.

The Goodyear label is rare, and I've seen no others although I'm sure there are others out there.   I may have to wait till those others appear with similar serial numbers before I can be certain.

But right now, I'm thinking pre-war.   What an interesting hobby this is.   Information intensive, but also evolving.   Kind of like my other hobby, collecting guitars, and string instruments.   That hobby has George Gruhn as a leading expert.   Is there a "leading expert" in the bike world?  If not, there sure needs to be.

Best regards, F.A.


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## RMS37 (Sep 10, 2011)

This Goodyear bike and the questions concerning it are up in several posts, so I'm chasing it trying to give complete answers and information. The individual parts on any bike can come to be there in several ways. Often parts that are out of period were added by early owners or by later collectors who are trying to finish a bike with what is at hand. In this case, the patina of the prewar front-loader looks a bit off compared to the finish on the bike.

Anyway the actual date of the bike is the date of the frame and this Goodyear badged frame is definitely a CWC bike of the pattern that was produced from 1947 through 1949. It is generically known as the “3-Gill” frame and all the 3-Gills built before and immediately after WW2 had a more shallow curved down tube than the one introduced in 1947 and used on this frame. Rear dropouts on 3-Gill frames are another useful area to look at to date the frames and the difference here is that all the prewar 3-Gills have integral drop-stand eyes and tangs where none of the postwar units do.

Serial numbers are another matter because every manufacturer had their own system and CWC “reused” serial numbers several times so it is theoretically possible to find two CWC frames with consecutive serial numbers that are ten or more years apart.

It looks like the black and white bike also has the deep curve down tube that would date it as post 1946 but it is hard to date any frame without a full picture of the bike/frame; a lot of the important views turn up missing. Another postwar give-away is the bracket on the chain guard. The same basic stamping was used for about twenty years but the prewar guards had a simplified clamp arrangement to hold them onto the frame.


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## frankabr. (Sep 10, 2011)

*Thanks for the hard work and great information.*

Thanks, Phil.  I guess you may well be the leading expert.   As for the torpedo light, I cleaned it heavily.  It was actually the only rusty part on the bike, and I went at it with rust remover, etc.   It is original for sure.  And it works!

You must be correct as to the frame.  My guess is that they probably stored pre-war parts during the war and used some in the immediate post war period.
Examples being the torpedo front loading light and the Person's teardrop pedals.   Both seem to be pre-war items?   I'm just learning, but thats what my research shows.    

Another idea is that they may have wanted to differentiate the Goodyear bikes from the other post war bikes they were selling, so they used those older parts they had hanging around.   Or even more likely, they said "since we have these old parts hanging around, lets use them on this bargain basement auto store brand."  "We'll use up all the old parts, and use the new parts on our higher end models."

I know this is all speculation but please let me know what you think?

Thanks, Frank.


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## frankabr. (Sep 10, 2011)

*ps. This bike was found in a barn in NC.,  all original.*

Phil, I forgot to mention.  After the bike was found, the guy cleaned it with a toothbrush.  It was covered with dirt.  The LBS just displayed it hanging from their ceiling.  No parts were changed.   This is the best info I have.

Thanks, F.A.


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## Overhauler (Sep 10, 2011)

I am posting a pic of the frame and the rear dropouts . Also i took the pics with my weak phone camera ( bluetooth is just so easy ) and i know the pics make the bike look black , but it is burgundy . 
......... Thanks ......... Lee


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## RMS37 (Sep 10, 2011)

Thanks Frank, I enjoy spreading the gospel, especially for CWC; and as much as anything I try to share what I know to keep incorrect information (of which there is plenty to be had) from spreading.

As for speculation, every old bike out there has an actual reason for being the way it is and we can usually imagine any number of stories or scenarios to add credence to and explain what we find. 

I personally think that the most reasonable explanation for the existence of prewar parts on this bike is that the original owner changed them out in the forties for a reason we can guess at but we can never confirm. The idea of using up leftover prewar parts is a good one except that by the time this bike was made, CWC had already pumped something like 500,000 to 600,000 postwar units out the factory door. Anything is possible and these may have somehow turned up in the build basket at the factory that long after they were made but it is just much more likely a kid or their parent bought them as replacements for the bike when they still might have been in a bike shop’s inventory.


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## RMS37 (Sep 10, 2011)

Overhauler, the alphabet is back up and operational in the case of your bike; it is two letters newer than Frank’s bike. CWC built D serialed bikes in the thirties, the forties and the fifties; yours dates to 1947-1949 probably falling into 1948

The main give-away as I noted is the configuration of the down tube coupled with that of the rear dropouts. The deep curve down tube like the one on your bike was introduced in 1947. On your bike the down tube exits the bottom bracket 180 degrees from the chain stays. On the earlier frames the down tube exits the bottom bracket at an upward angle. The dropouts are the type that were also used from 1947 through 1949. 

Since the badging is Hawthorne and the bike has the Hawthorn pattern chain ring it is safe to say it is on of the many bikes CWC built for Montgomery Ward, which was one of their two best customers at that time.


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## Overhauler (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks Phil , all your knowledge and  information is much appreciated !!!
 Now i have alot better understanding of the maker , frame , and style . After stumbling across this thread i pulled the frame down to look at the serial # , and noticed for the first time that it had a W inside a C stamped on it , and it hit me Cleveland Welding . I had disassembled it last summer and just hung the frame up without even looking at it while i cleaned the other pieces , then it got put on the back burner . 
 When i get this 1960 Schwinn Speedster put back together and off my work bench i think i will pull the old boy back down and get it put together and maybe put it up for sale . 
      Thanks Again , Lee


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## frankabr. (Sep 14, 2011)

*Thanks again*

Thanks for all the help.  My next project is to figure out how many CWC made Goodyear Wings Marathon bicycles are out there.   Seems that the vast majority of Goodyear Wings bicycles were made by Colson.   So if you know or have seen other CWC ones,  please let me know.

Thanks again,  F.A.


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