# Musselman Hub Help!



## PhilipJ (Aug 8, 2016)

Hello fellow cabers. I have a 1917 Napoleon that I recently brought back to riding condition. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get the Musselman hub to function properly. It pedals correctly but the brake will not engage very often. It works maybe ten percent of the time. Usually it just free spends when I try and engage the coaster brake. I have replaced the hub with new internal parts and still have the same problem. Therefore, it can't be a problem with the parts but, I'm guessing a problem with how the wheel is mounted on the bike. If there are any Musselman hub experts out there who could give me some advice it would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks,
Phil


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## fordmike65 (Aug 8, 2016)

Post up a pic of the hub.


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## fat tire trader (Aug 8, 2016)

Is it an armless coaster brake?


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## PhilipJ (Aug 9, 2016)

Sorry, I should of stated the hub is a Model M. It is not an armless coaster brake. Below is a link to some pics of the bike and the hub. 

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1915-napoleon-project.64331/

Thanks in advance for any help!!

Phil


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## PhilipJ (Aug 11, 2016)

Here is a pic of the hub.


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## fat tire trader (Aug 13, 2016)

Its really hard to tell what's wrong based on reading what you wrote and looking at the picture.


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## PhilipJ (Aug 15, 2016)

Fat tire trader,
    Not sure what else I can share that would make what's wrong more clear. It's a coaster brake hub but when I pedal backwards it spins like a free hub. When the brake does engage it works great. The brake works about once every ten times I try and engage it. I've replaced the internal components of the hub and still have the problem. This leads me to believe there maybe a problem with the hub shell or how the hub is mounted on the bike. Anyone have knowledge about this problem or possible ways I can troubleshoot this further?

Thanks,
Phil


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## bricycle (Aug 15, 2016)

anyone know if there are two different width hubs?
2). guts should be loose enough to allow wheel to spin (of course), but not loose enough to have side to side play.???


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## rustjunkie (Aug 15, 2016)

bricycle said:


> anyone know if there are two different width hubs?




That's what I thought looking at the pic, Bri: looks a little wider than a 1930s - 1950s hub but tough to say w/o measurement.
A balloon-era Musselman as on Elgin/Higgins etc is ~54mm at the centers of the flanges and overall shell width is 80mm.
Also: was the hub doing this before replacement of parts, and what did you replace the old parts with?
Pics of the old and new parts might help.


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## rustjunkie (Aug 15, 2016)

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/pa...tions-schematics-non-discussion-thread.70318/


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## PhilipJ (Aug 15, 2016)

Thanks for the feedback. I will take the hub apart and take some pics. I will also do some measurements and post the info. Hopefully this will help find out what's wrong. 

Thanks,
Phil


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## dan price (Oct 6, 2016)

PhilipJ said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I will take the hub apart and take some pics. I will also do some measurements and post the info. Hopefully this will help find out what's wrong.
> 
> Thanks,
> Phil



hi i have had same problem  
if you take hub apart and look at the hub shell race
 you will see the wear 
and this is the main cause
 look for another hub shell look carefully at both race internals -
.. happy hunting the musclemen  are great 
but are not lasting if abused and not proper adjusted and greased..
 good luck


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## dan price (Oct 6, 2016)

PhilipJ said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I will take the hub apart and take some pics. I will also do some measurements and post the info. Hopefully this will help find out what's wrong.
> 
> Thanks,
> Phil



i think i have a dos hub shell if you still need one ?


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## dan price (Oct 6, 2016)

dan price said:


> hi i have had same problem
> if you take hub apart and look at the hub shell race
> you will see the wear
> and this is the main cause
> ...



i have a 36 hole hub shell that is in good condition


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## Rambler (Oct 7, 2016)

PhilipJ said:


> Usually it just free spends when I try and engage the coaster brake.




PhilipJ, I have worked on hundreds of brake hubs including Musselman model "M" and based on your description (assuming the hub is assembled correctly), there is only one thing that will cause a hub to "free spin" when pedaling backward and it isn't the hub diameter as some have said.  Your problem is part #10829 Clutch is not moving properly back and forth between drive and brake positions. Two issue can cause the clutch not to operate properly.

1). Stiff or gummy grease on the clutch threads between the clutch and #10841 Drive Screw not allowing the clutch to move freely back a fourth between drive and brake positions.

2). Part #10827 Spool and Drag, the Drag spring is not creating enough friction on the outer surface of the clutch. Make sure your drag spring is assembled on the spool so it looks like the assembly on the far right of the diagram below. If the drag spring is assembled on the spool properly, remove the clutch and bend the drag spring arms in slightly toward the center where the clutch goes in order to create more drag on the clutch and then reassemble it.

I'm confidant that (assuming you have assembled the hub correctly), you will find your problem of sprocket freewheeling backwards when applying the brake to be one or a combination of both the two issues listed above. Good luck and happy peddling!


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## PhilipJ (Oct 10, 2016)

Thanks to everyone for all the feedback about my Musselman hub. I hope it isn't a problem with the shell as I don't want to have to replace it. I'll work on it this weekend using some of the feedback I've received. I will post what I find out.

Thanks again for everyone's help!!

Cheers,
Phil


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## dan price (Oct 14, 2016)

PhilipJ said:


> Thanks to everyone for all the feedback about my Musselman hub. I hope it isn't a problem with the shell as I don't want to have to replace it. I'll work on it this weekend using some of the feedback I've received. I will post what I find out.
> 
> Thanks again for everyone's help!!
> 
> ...



so what happen? was the expert wright? or is there wear on the internal hub shell as i had said?


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## PhilipJ (Oct 16, 2016)

Thank you Rambler! I took the hub apart and followed the steps you recommended. I cleaned the clutch and drive screw and then adjusted the drag spring. I've only taken the bike for a short test ride but the brake engaged every time. I really appreciate everyone's input on this. I was really not looking forward to having to replace the hub. Now I can take the Napoleon on some hills without questioning if I'm going to be able to stop.

Thanks again Rambler!!!!

Cheers,
Phil


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## PhilipJ (Oct 16, 2016)

Hello all, 
   I had an interesting turn of events after my last post. I took the Napoleon for a longer ride. The brakes worked great for about the first mile. I engaged them maybe a dozen times and they worked perfectly. Then, they just stopped working. I'm back to just free spinning when I try and engage the brakes. I don't get it. If I have to replace the hub shell, I think I'm just going to replace the hub with a ND model A.

Cheers,
Phil


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## Rambler (Oct 16, 2016)

Hello Phil,
If you are still experiencing freewheeling of the sprocket while applying the brake, than it's still the same problem. The clutch is for some reason hanging up on the drive screw from moving fully to the brake position or the drag spring is not creating enough friction to hold the clutch from rotating while you back pedal to apply the brake.

If you were able to apply the brake but the brake was noneffective having to push real hard with the pedals in order to stop. Then I agree the hub shell is worn and needs to be replaced. However difficulty stopping is not what you have mentioned. Only freewheeling of the sprocket which is only caused by the clutch not working properly and nothing else.


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## PhilipJ (Oct 16, 2016)

Rambler,
   I agree. I doubt a worn out shell would create the problem I'm experiencing. I'm going to take the hub apart again and see if I can figure out reason it stopped engaging again.

Thanks,
Phil


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