# Toc Schwinn Research



## Velocipedist Co. (Oct 30, 2017)

Looking for info, photos, examples, catalogues on anything Schwinn, The World badged, or Schwinn built from 1900-1908.

While trying to identify a toc frame I acquired recently, I discovered that there is a very limited number of Schwinn built bicycles from before 1916-ish?  In fact, the only examples I could find were a handful of 1800's tandems, a lady's safety, and Shawn's 1898.  I could find nothing from 1900-1908, and this includes any catalogues or advertisements.

Anyway, let me know whats out there.  I'm very curious why such a prolific company has so few surviving examples.

Thanks!


----------



## 2jakes (Oct 31, 2017)

Go online:
HathiTrust Digital Library | Millions of books online

In search section, type
“ Fifty Years of Schwinn Built Bicycles”.

Page opens.
Select “Full View”.

You now can scroll to view the entire contents
of the book.

With Mac, I press “Command-shift-4”
to make a screenshot copy if I want to
save the data or photos in my folders.

Below is a copy of the first page of this book written by Frank W. Schwinn,
son of Arnold Schwinn.

The book contains photos and drawings of the earliest Schwinn factory and some samples of their early bikes.

The book explains that by the TOC, the golden age of bicycles was in decline.
It describes what Arnold Schwinn did to survive. There are few examples of early Schwinns or ads
from the time period you are looking for because they weren’t producing as much.
 It was the invention of the “balloon” tire in the 30s that Schwinn started to make a name for itself
with regards to bicycles.


----------



## Freqman1 (Oct 31, 2017)

Never mind....


----------



## 2jakes (Oct 31, 2017)

Freqman1 said:


> I've read the book and if memory serves it doesn't go very deep for the kind of info Steve seeks. Schwinn was a very prolific builder but moved a lot of their stuff through jobbers so that may account for the lack of mainstream advertising. Probably the best place to find early Schwinn stuff would be bicycle trade journals. I, too, was surprised by the lack of early Schwinns. The Bicycle Museum of America has a '95 ladies bike, the Schwinn family tandem, and a couple other tandems and I think a tri or quint. Other than a couple of tandems that have popped up here I haven't seen any early stuff which is rather surprising. Here is the thread I started https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/oldest-schwinn-privately-owned.94957/  V/r Shawn




Perhaps this book does not go deep enough for you
and I’m sure there are other articles elsewhere which
may provide more.
This was a suggestion I made to him and not to you.
Lets give him the courtesy to check it out for himself
and he can arrive at his own conclusions.


----------



## bricycle (Oct 31, 2017)

Velocipedist Co. said:


> Looking for info, photos, examples, catalogues on anything Schwinn, The World badged, or Schwinn built from 1900-1908.
> 
> While trying to identify a toc frame I acquired recently, I discovered that there is a very limited number of Schwinn built bicycles from before 1916-ish?  In fact, the only examples I could find were a handful of 1800's tandems, a lady's safety, and Shawn's 1898.  I could find nothing from 1900-1908, and this includes any catalogues or advertisements.
> 
> ...




My guess is that Armold sold to other 3 party jobbers first to gain a name for himself as a builder before he marketed bikes as Schwinn's.


----------



## 2jakes (Oct 31, 2017)

bricycle said:


> My guess is that Armold sold to other 3 party jobbers first to gain a name for himself as a builder before he marketed bikes as Schwinn's.



You said it best with less words than me.
But you are 100% correct my friend!


----------



## Velocipedist Co. (Oct 31, 2017)

bricycle said:


> My guess is that Armold sold to other 3 party jobbers first to gain a name for himself as a builder before he marketed bikes as Schwinn's.




Yes, perhaps.  But I noticed that he had been quick to market under their own brand as early as the 1800's with theWorld badge.  Maybe they shifted toward contract during the early 1900's?
But it is also my underatanding that Schwinn built a new facility that was put into service some time around 1902-ish.  I just can't imagine the company expanding, while also cutting back on production and rededicating there manufacturing to 3rd party vendors exclusively.


----------



## Velocipedist Co. (Oct 31, 2017)

2jakes said:


> Go online:
> HathiTrust Digital Library | Millions of books online
> 
> In search section, type
> ...




Thanks for the reference.  I'll read into it this evening.


----------



## Velocipedist Co. (Oct 31, 2017)

2jakes said:


> You said it best with less words than me.
> But you are 100% correct my friend!




Also, if this had been the case, are there verifiable examples of these Schwinn built 3rd party (sublabeled) bicycles?  Catalogues or ad photos?


----------



## bricycle (Oct 31, 2017)

Velocipedist Co. said:


> Yes, perhaps.  But I noticed that he had been quick to market under their own brand as early as the 1800's with theWorld badge.  Maybe they shifted toward contract during the early 1900's?
> But it is also my underatanding that Schwinn built a new facility that was put into service some time around 1902-ish.  I just can't imagine the company expanding, while also cutting back on production and rededicating there manufacturing to 3rd party vendors exclusively.




yup, but he probably thought it better to sell way more bikes at a smaller profit, just to get masses of his product into the hands of cyclists. Keating had to sell more basic bikes to make ends meet instead of the models he wanted to sell. Back then it was very difficult to start businesses (recession 1895-1899ish) and then you had investors telling you what you HAD to do! (to keep them off you back)


----------



## 2jakes (Oct 31, 2017)

Velocipedist Co. said:


> Also, if this had been the case, are there verifiable examples of these Schwinn built 3rd party (sublabeled) bicycles?  Catalogues or ad photos?



Not saying they don’t exist but they are not
easy to find.
Best thing that I can think of is going online
to that link I posted or the Library of Congress.

Check on American Bicyclist or periodicals
from that time period.
They have ads pertaining to bicycles and
things from that era.


----------



## bricycle (Oct 31, 2017)

Velocipedist Co. said:


> Also, if this had been the case, are there verifiable examples of these Schwinn built 3rd party (sublabeled) bicycles?  Catalogues or ad photos?



Mead for one. Monky Wards/Sears were already pushing their catalogs...?


----------



## Velocipedist Co. (Oct 31, 2017)

2jakes said:


> Not saying they don’t exist but they are not
> easy to find.
> Best thing that I can think of is going online
> to that link I posted or the Library of Congress.
> ...




Cool, I'll give that a try.  Thanks again


----------



## Schwinn499 (Oct 31, 2017)

A million made by 1916 ..


----------



## Schwinn499 (Oct 31, 2017)

BEST LOOKERS. BEST FINISH. BEST EVERYTHING.

WE ARE ALWAYS WIDE AWAKE. OUR LINE IS ALIVE.


----------



## bricycle (Oct 31, 2017)

yea, I read in the Keating book the cycle boom peaked about 1896... market began to flood, 'course $$ was scarce as well.


----------



## bricycle (Oct 31, 2017)

"Dealers, they come to us, they want our line!" in Jan of 1896...after being in business less than a Year? How many dealers??? at least two I guess. Advertising can be a bit optimistic at times.


----------



## 2jakes (Oct 31, 2017)

bricycle said:


> "Dealers, they come to us, they want our line!" in Jan of 1896...after being in business less than a Year? How many dealers??? at least two I guess. Advertising can be a bit optimistic at times.




Advertising back then was challenging to say the least.
What Schwinn at Chicago was producing
and what the “Boys from Marketing” were
advertising with drawings or illustrations
of the product was not 100 % accurate.
It was like they were on different planets!

Which has caused much debate today on
what is original and what isn’t.

I have several original bikes of the same
model style but different years.
And each one has the hand-painted decals
on the fork tubes with variations.
All are original, but were painted by different
people at the factory over the years.

Keep in mind that these products were created
mostly for “junior” who didn’t really give a hoot
if the decal was off an inch or two or the horn
was not correct for that brand.... 
he was just happy to own a bike!


----------



## Schwinn499 (Oct 31, 2017)

Marketing in the TOC


----------

