# Possible Phantom black and gold - stainless fenders.



## cr250mark (Sep 29, 2019)

No much of a Schwinn guy but always like the off color phantoms when they show up.

Not sure if this was anything worth it.
Elkhorn wi. Antique swap
Vendor always has cool stuff.
He had this tagged at $750 willing to take $650
Wanted to post it
Was raining like a SOB vendors who stayed were looking to deal ! 

Please feel free to post your feedback

Mark


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## Jesse McCauley (Sep 29, 2019)

Not stainless fenders? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cr250mark (Sep 29, 2019)

I said aluminum but may of misspoken Jesse
I had based this on quick overview of front light and fender . Light case looked frosted so I assumed aluminum.
Bike looked to be pretty much all there so
May of been stainless 
Seat pan looked typical of phantom 
Thank you for your feedback. 
Mark


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## John G04 (Sep 29, 2019)

Thats just a super cool patina candy red phatom. There was one of those are trexlertown yesterday with the same gold and black look. Not a bad deal at $650 tho, pretty cool!


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## unregistered (Sep 29, 2019)

So faded to the silver basecoat? Or repainted? Not sure what I’m looking at here. Seems like a decent enough deal.


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## John G04 (Sep 29, 2019)

buses n bikes said:


> So faded to the silver basecoat? Or repainted? Not sure what I’m looking at here. Seems like a decent enough deal.




I think the gold flake they used to make the red candy color was under the red and as the red faded away and got sun burnt too probably it just mixed with the gold flake and made it gold


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## cr250mark (Sep 29, 2019)

You are most likely correct. 
Thanks for the info 
I seen good traces of red in areas that are not exposed to daylight and was in question but still did not believe this bike to be repaint. 

Appreciate it. 
This seller might be easy to get in touch with , if this is something of interest for you. 
I see him every show at Elkhorn.  

I’m just passing on a cool looking bike to get it out there in anticipation it would end up in good hands.   

Mark


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## bobcycles (Sep 29, 2019)

Definitely once a red bike...that's what they do ...they Metallic red ones.... if left to the elements


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## cr250mark (Sep 29, 2019)

bobcycles said:


> Definitely once a red bike...that's what they do ...they Metallic red ones.... if left to the elements





Good to know this for the future 
Crazy transition had taken place. 
When I seen the red I thought for sure repaint 
But the Details where typically see repaint
Just had nothing to see. 
Thanks for tip. 

Mark


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## GTs58 (Sep 29, 2019)

That was a Red Phantom and the red is/was the Opal Red. The color under the red candy is a gold base coat.


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## WES PINCHOT (Sep 29, 2019)

YOU HAVE YOUR ANSWERS!
NO DOUBT THAT IT WAS A RED PHANTOM.


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## Jeff54 (Sep 30, 2019)

Indeed, that is a UV over exposed Opal Red. There's No Gold or anything special except whatever Schwinn's paint supplier, Possibly DUPOont, screwed up in the red tint.

I own an 1955 Opel red Schwinn  that's deteriorated badly like this and the only dopes who think  or are delusional enough to tout  falsities  'There's gold in them there hills' DON'T! or are con artists attempting to create what doesn't exist . $$$  [wink]

I don't mean  to say that it's not an interesting defect in the paint however, in the long run and as value goes though, {Buyer beware!}  it's a major flaw.

Here's what's actually under the badge of nonsense "gold phantom" and or any detiriated Schwinn Opel red.  >> Red over aluminum Metal flake:


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## Freqman1 (Sep 30, 2019)

I knew this would start this whole silly argument all over again. We've had numerous photographs and even a chemist weigh in on this debunking the gold base coat theory. There was no gold base coat this is just how the red oxidizes. Can we finally put this horse down?


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## cr250mark (Sep 30, 2019)

Red , black , blue or green it’s all good .
Myself , I learned something very cool about old bikes paint and age .
Something I would of never thought !
Appreciate the lesson. 
I’ll know for the next one.  
Appreciate all the feedback.Fellas !
Mark


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## GTs58 (Sep 30, 2019)

Freqman1 said:


> I knew this would start this whole silly argument all over again. We've had numerous photographs and even a chemist weigh in on this debunking the gold base coat theory. There was no gold base coat this is just how the red oxidizes. Can we finally put this horse down?




Silly argument? I think not. A silly argument would be saying that Schwinn installed a cheesy Wald reflector on the Phantom, their flagship bike. Schwinnlax did not debunk the gold base, he simply said it was possible that red could fade to gold. 
*Quote:*
Presumably the original paint is still there under the decals (chain guard, seat tube). That being the case, the original red paint is still there under the decals, and not somehow scraped or worn off. Unless the red paint faded to clear revealing a gold coat underneath, it has to be the red paint that faded to gold. Just using logic here...
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Also, paint oxidation is completely different than the paint colorant fading. You can buff out oxidized paint but you can't buff out loss of color. Years ago I painted my 1967 Chevelle Marina Blue Metallic with a single stage enamel. Before I sold that car the blue pigment *completely* faded out and the car was silver, which was the silver metallic particles used in the paint. GM's old metallic paint in the late 50's into the 60's not only oxidized quickly here in Arizona, the paint pigment also faded out and the colors never turned a different color, they just faded out. Over the years I've seen hundreds of these cars where the paint colorant fades completely away. 

Again, "numerous photographs." Here is faded red English bike with a red candy shot over a silver base. I don't see one trace of the red turning to gold. Why is that? 





And here is a red Schwinn where the red faded out and turned to gold? Naw, that's a gold base. 





Can you prove your theory that Schwinn's red candy fades to gold? Saying Schwinn never used a gold base is just your belief, and these two pictures sure would indicate that Schwinn did in fact use a gold base during this time, so the horse is still running.


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## Freqman1 (Oct 1, 2019)

Ok Schwinn used a gold base wink wink


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## Maskadeo (Oct 1, 2019)

They did use those Walds on some early bikes. Like it or not!


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## Jeff54 (Oct 1, 2019)

Freqman1 said:


> Ok Schwinn used a gold base wink wink




[grin, wink!]

Actually, while we're on the subject 'Opal Red' A few years back ,whenever  sanded the paint and took the micro photo above, There is something unique captured.

IDK if or not whether it's occurring in the change to Radiant but as a buff in Opals and understanding the rarest and most prized is the Harlequin. And the best of these is when the stone has a full pattern. In this case, within the clear and aluminum flake  mixture , below the red coat, even when the red tint craps out to fools gold,  there's micro cracking leaving rectangular patterns  and . The potential effect mimics the Harlequin Opal pattern called Checkerboard. In Opals if ya got Harlequin checker Opal ,ya be talking some serious buck. I.E. the micro cracking within the clear and aluminum metal flake base coat, at least on my bike, captured in my photo,  lends good reason for Schwinn's name:  'Opal' The metal flake doesn't have the flash and color-play of a real Checkerboard Harlequin Opal, but the foundation or Checkerboard opal effect is clearly in the metal flake   base paint.
Real precious Harlequin, checkerboard,, black Opel:


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