# the thirth dutch bicycle freak.....



## supper15fiets (Sep 25, 2007)

okay things are starting to get really out of controle, a friend of mine has bought his first real classic bike from out of the states..three people that love american bikes in holland...it must be the weather...anyway this is the bike, 1920/30 elgin oriole with the wrong wheels i guess...here is the serial number 3E461 ..who have more info on this bike, this guys is  just on training wheels....


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 25, 2007)

well to be honest I think the first cases were found here in america. aparently it has escaped the borders and made its way to europe! have any of you made a trip here recently where you might have picked it up? The safest thing is for you guys to send me the bikes so it doesn't spread any further. I'm willing to make the sacrifice and find room in my already crowded collection.  
Scott


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 25, 2007)

oh, and are you sure it is an Elgin? it looks kinda like an early Dayton to me.
Scott


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## ejlwheels (Sep 25, 2007)

I was thinking it might be an a Colson.  Colsons usually have a serial number format xAxxxx where the 1st numeral indicates the year, i.e. in your case 1933 (or 1923?)





Another way to narrow it down is by looking at the fork.  The inner part of the crown has a piece that looks like a pulley wheel or a disc with concave sides.  Other makes have a disc there but I believe only the Colson fork has concave sides.  They seem to stop using this fork after about 1936.


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## supper15fiets (Sep 26, 2007)

it looks mostly like the colson in my opinion , but are those 26 inch wooden rims ? and yes there is no headbadge the guy on ebay just wrote it could be an elgin.....so it could be anything..


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 26, 2007)

the sprocket is very Dayton looking and the rest looks about right though lots of the early bikes have the same look and can be hard to figure out. Davis (the maker of Dayton in the early years) was part of a group of manufacturers who tried to dominate the bike business for years. this group made tons of bikes under tons of names. maybe someone here knows the old stuff better. try posting in the early bike forum for info. also it looks like 28" single tube tires.
Scott


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## martijn (Sep 26, 2007)

hi,
thanks for thoughts on my new bike!
info will follow, ronaldo (super15) has found lots of pics of what it might be, elgin oriole, colson, vim, dayton etc etc. i'm still hoping it's an indian 
greetings from the sunny netherlands


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## supper15fiets (Sep 27, 2007)

.....saaaaweeeeet dreams....please anyone tell this guy that this bike never will be an indian....


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## mre straightbar (Sep 29, 2007)

*be eing an indian*

have a bunch of these old frames am curious what are the distingushing characteristics of an indian are also was noticing that some people that collect these old bikes (balloon tires included)state that it is a certain bike BECAUSE of a certain part that is on it and not taking into account that most parts are interchangeable and in light of wartime metal drives (which destroyed countless#s of these beuties) alot of these bikes were pieced back together now im not saying anyone in this present forum is doing this just wanted to state an observation since i dont pipe up much on this site love these old bikes had one complete that had a tank that looked homemade rode it every day was my pride and joy got stolen off property at the begining of year now im collecting parts parts to put another together not an easy task


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 29, 2007)

if I'm not mistaken the Indians were made by Columbia, where the Harleys were made by Davis (Dayton). the Elgins were made by Columbia also. I'm not an expert enough to go much further than that though. Columbia and Davis were two of the biggest makers so it would not be too surprising that it would be one of the two. the bike looks pretty un-molested and correct, I think you will find it is a Davis made which is very much to be hoped for not just because I love Dayton but because they were one of the best bikes at the time and are very sought after now. can you get a shot of the head badge area? might give a clue to see if it has anything there that is brand specific.
Scott


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## Flat Tire (Sep 29, 2007)

Doesnt really look like most Indians I've seen...the first Indain bicycles were made by Hendee Manufacturing....Davis Sewing Machine made them in the teens...dont know who all made them after that......


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 29, 2007)

ok here you go, I'll let you decide.

http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/classics/bike.asp?id=12


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## Flat Tire (Sep 30, 2007)

I was going by where the lower horizontal bar meets near the neck, and also the sprocket (although sprockets can get changed over time).

These old bikes sure are hard to figure out sometimes. Like Scott said Davis and Columbia made a ton of bikes, and for a lot of different companys. And I think he may be right about this one being made by Davis.

This picture is from a Museum in Dayton Ohio dedicated to items made in Dayton. Its made by Davis and badged La France, check out the sprocket. Only thing I see different from yours is the stem...


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## martijn (Oct 4, 2007)

hi, got the bike yesterday so here some more pics of where the headbadge should be (2 holes are not in a vertical straight line) and where the horizontal bars meet (so its not the same as your bike, flat tire, btw very nice bike!) and of the fork with the original (?) striping, because i noticed spilled bloodred paint on the sprocket and cranck i doubt if this red is the original color.
the rims are wooden 26", but it should be 28"(anyone wants to swap?)


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## martijn (Oct 4, 2007)

where are the pics 
i'll get back


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## Kelly (Nov 23, 2016)

supper15fiets said:


> okay things are starting to get really out of controle, a friend of mine has bought his first real classic bike from out of the states..three people that love american bikes in holland...it must be the weather...anyway this is the bike, 1920/30 elgin oriole with the wrong wheels i guess...here is the serial number 3E461 ..who have more info on this bike, this guys is  just on training wheels....


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## Kelly (Nov 23, 2016)

I have the exact bike identical not sure what year but mine says Dayton, I'm still wondering what year mine is and am interested in selling, it my great grandfather's bicycle I'll try to post pictures on here but am having a hard time figuring this out, if anyone is interested here is my # 320-412-6626 and i can send pictures that way


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## Kelly (Nov 23, 2016)




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## Kelly (Nov 23, 2016)

Kelly said:


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