# Oxalic Acid



## spook1s

I'm hoping this can enlighten some people on the wonders of Oxalic Acid  (wood bleach) as a rust remover.

I have a few questions that I haven't been able to find answers to by searching the web...

1. How long after mixing the acid with water will it still work?  ie. If I mix some today and soak some parts overnight... Can I soak more parts next week if I keep the liquid solution in a properly sealed container? Does it lose it's effectiveness and if so, How soon?

2. My container says nothing about the amount to mix with water for removing rust from chrome/metal...  Is this something all of you have "experimented" with and come up with your own conclusions?
I know all acids will effect plating eventually. I just don't want to make the solution too strong and eat the chrome off before the rust!.. OR too weak to be non-effective.

3. Painted parts....  Does it remove paint? I assume it will remove decals but what about painted on striping and darting like that which is on fenders and frames?

I suppose I could just try it out on some old spare stuff laying around but...

I would like to have some guidance from some people with previous experience with this stuff before I go diving in and damage valuable parts....  "Haste makes Waste!"


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## Boris

No help here, but great questions!!!!! I've been wondering the same things. Inquiring minds want to know.


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## redline1968

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## spook1s

Can painted parts be soaked for a lesser amount of time?  At all? How fast will it effect the paint and start to "lift" it?

What about parts that are partially plated and painted...  For example...  The tank on this one.


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## spook1s

Redline, you mentioned rinsing the parts extra good because the solution continues to eat at the metal.. I have read that you can dip the part in a solution of baking soda and water to neutralize the oxalic acid let it soak for half hour or so and then rinse again.

Is waxing the parts a good enough way to prevent flash rusting afterward?..  or should parts be sprayed with something like WD40...  or something else even better?


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## dougfisk

I have never seen it "lift" or damage paint sufaces.  I *have* noticed it lighten the color of tan and ivory paint.  This *may* have been as result of cleaning the surface of microscpic corrosion (??)




spook1s said:


> Can painted parts be soaked for a lesser amount of time?  At all? How fast will it effect the paint and start to "lift" it?
> 
> What about parts that are partially plated and painted...  For example...  The tank on this one.


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## spook1s

So, would dipping a rusty white bike bring a bright white bike result?

I've started gathering a crate load of parts for "the bath"... I've even added a few painted parts that need redone anyway just to see what happens.

I have some parts that only need mild cleaning, parts that are HEAVILY rusted, painted parts, and parts that I have NO hope for... I just want to see what happens! The "NO hope" parts have areas where the plating is completely gone and severe pitting and corrosion are occuring.

I'll take pics of before and after in case any of you are curious. 

I'm hoping things like seat springs and fork springs come out looking pretty good.

If anybody else would like to chime in with their mixing ratio or any other do's and dont's.... PLEASE feel free!!

I'm hoping this thread can help everybody!


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## Boris

Would it be too much trouble for you to take notes? Like the percentage of water to acid and length of time parts submerged? I'd also like to see a photo of the product you're using.


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## redline1968

if you have rust under the paint its going to lift and the paint will eventually lift off. the paint is going to change in color and possibly flake off. so i would consider putting a coating over the paint (on a test part) like hard wax and see if the color/paint will stay on. and yes use a nutralizer like baking soda to stop the acid and then seal the metal with a conditioner. you can get the oxcilic acid at a home depoe or any builders supply ask for a solution to clean pools with.  it comes in two plastic bottles. i used one bottle. i can't quite remember what the mix ratio was but i think i did 1 bottle to 10gal but im not sure. the amout of water will weaken the acid and slow it down increasing the time to remove the rust and better control of the removal process.  i used gloves and a small brush to scrub the rust off to quicken the time but not recomended. that stuff will clean heavy and light rust with ease and will suprize you when your done but the suface will have small pits where the rust was and can be filled in and look great when done.


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## dougfisk

I use white crystals and start at about 2 tablespoons per gallon of water.  You can use much stronger or weaker; the concentration seems only to affect the speed at which it works.  You can collect in a container and re-use, adding more powder if it seems too slow.  

I find it works best on chrome plating that is still mostly sound under the rust.  I find it counterproductve if the plating is too far gone.  It turns some types of plating green, grey or black.   It quickly removes some type of plating used on spoke nipples.


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## hoofhearted

BAR KEEPERS FRIEND ... Google it ... Wikipedia it ... get the link to the home page ... active ingredient ..... oxalic acid.


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## spook1s

Dave, No problem... I've taken many pictures of before "the bath".

I mixed in 4 teaspoons of the white crystals into 1 full gallon jug of warm water. I put some smaller parts in a bucket and dumped the solution in the bucket at 7:00PM tonight. I'm going to let it soak over night and give them a look in the morning.


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## redline1968

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## izee2

*My 2cents*

Hey,

  I've started to use "Wood bleach" with some reserve. Afterwards, I have become a fan. I'll try to answer from what I've found.

  1. How long after mixing the acid with water will it still work? ie. If I mix some today and soak some parts overnight... Can I soak more parts next week if I keep the liquid solution in a properly sealed container? Does it lose it's effectiveness and if so, How soon?

  I have a batch of the mix that has been sitting in a plastic tub for over a month. it is still working but not 100% of what it did originally. Probably around 60%. Biggest problem is when you use the solution the remnants of the rust removal build up on the bottom of the tub. Kind of like a yellow slime. My expirence has been that If something sits directly on the bottom in the "sludge" it will mar or remove some of the finish. Just something to be careful of.

2. My container says nothing about the amount to mix with water for removing rust from chrome/metal... Is this something all of you have "experimented" with and come up with your own conclusions?
 I know all acids will effect plating eventually. I just don't want to make the solution too strong and eat the chrome off before the rust!.. OR too weak to be non-effective.

 I have been using 1 1/2 tablespoons in one gallon of water. Works just great. Chrome....paint....old tools....anything.

3. Painted parts.... Does it remove paint? I assume it will remove decals but what about painted on striping and darting like that which is on fenders and frames?

 I have used it on a set of fenders from a old crusty rusty Shelby.....Took off all the rust and left what was left of the paint. All pinstriping (that was there) still stayed. But....after I remove anything from the bath I wash it with soapy water...I use a nylon brush to scrub all parts. I use a little wd40 on everything and if needed I get some 000steel wool and clean up anything left.. Then ,When I got time, I just clean and use a bit of liquid wax and I'm finished. Decals....I don't know. Never used it on anything that had one.

I have had my hands in the solution(not for long but they were in there fishing around for parts) and all I did was wash them with soap and water. Never had any issues except a little dryness. Not saying you should soak yourself in it but I'm just letting you know what I did.

 Good luck.

 Tom


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## spook1s

Thanks Tom!

I have been soaking some parts in a pretty strong solution for most of the day. I soaked some parts over night in a solution 4 TEAspoons to a gallon. This morning I took them out, gave them a good scrub and a once over with a brass bristle brush and decided to put them back in... I doubled the amount of crystals by adding 4 more teaspoons full to the mixture for a total of 8 to the gallon

The parts have been in since about 10AM and will be in until I get home tomorrow around 6:00 PM... Hopefully the plating will not be effected.

I did notice that the mixture did start to get down in all the little nooks and crannies that are not very accessible by wire brushing.

I've also noticed the "yellow slime" you speak of...  Is this stuff rust goop or just crystals that have settled to the bottom?  I will carefully pour the liquid into the jug using a funnel and not get any of the "yellow slime" in, if it is no good.

Another thing I noticed on part of a springer fork I submerged... I wanted to see if it damaged paint. Well, It didn't damage the original paint, did remove the rust... BUT flash rusting happened almost immediately!  Almost to the point where it seemed like I should have rinsed the part in a vat of WD40 instead of water!! This particular part doesn't matter much because it will be getting media blasted, but for other parts that I want to retain original paint yet remove rust... ???  More experimentation coming!!  Maybe a quick rinse followed immediately by a spray down with WD?

Can some of you guys share your ideas on "vats" or soaking tubs for some of the larger things...  like frames, fenders, and rims.. I saw one guy used plastic sheeting and built a makeshift fluid holding unit out of the sheeting. I was thinking maybe a kiddie pool or something like that?


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## hzqw2l

*Deck Cleaner*

I tried the powder but found ZEP Deck cleaner available at Home Depot works better.  Cheaper too.  1 Gallon aroud $8 can be mixed with 15 Gallons of water in a large tub.  Soak chrome parts overnight and painted parts a few hours and they all come out looking really good.


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## brownster69

*barkeepers freind*

i have used this product but a bit abrasive though for paint i use it religously for vintage porcelain signs it works awesome but for rusted painted surfaces i use 4 ot (0000 ) steel wool soaked with mcguires cleaner wax and old fashion sos pads for chrome sufaces  ......





hoofhearted said:


> BAR KEEPERS FRIEND ... Google it ... Wikipedia it ... get the link to the home page ... active ingredient ..... oxalic acid.


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## Boris

hzqw2l said:


> I tried the powder but found ZEP Deck cleaner available at Home Depot works better.  Cheaper too.  1 Gallon aroud $8 can be mixed with 15 Gallons of water in a large tub.  Soak chrome parts overnight and painted parts a few hours and they all come out looking really good.




Nice simple concise answer. Doesn't sound intimidating at all. Thank you!!!!!


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## izee2

*Last nights experiment*

Hey,

  After posting last night I went to the garage and stuck this old wheel, I think it was off a Thunderjet or a Meteor flight, into the Oxalic acid solution. The tub I have had some parts soaking in it so all I did was dip the part of the rim that would fit into the old mixture. This stuff was made about 5 weeks ago and has had a bunch of things soaked in it. The rim was in it for about 11/12 hours. All I did today was take it out and wash off the solution.









 Now I have to finish cleaning it. If i keep dipping and turning it will take me until next week...guess I got to get a bigger vat. 

 You can find some really inexpensive suppliers of Oxalic acid online or on ebay. I haven't tried any of the other suggestions,Yet, but I am happy with this stuff. 

 Have Fun
    Tom


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## Boris

WOW!!!!! That's really impressive. What will you be using as a rust inhibitor? I usually just use a paste wax after I've cleaned up chrome (the hard way). Do you use something other than wax?


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## scrubbinrims

Just a word of caution...DO NOT USE THIS STUFF NAKED, trust me.
Chris


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## spook1s

BWAhAHAHAHAHAhahahahahaha!!!!!

What the heck kind of "bicycle cleaning" are you getting into?


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## Dave K

izee2 said:


> Hey,
> 
> After posting last night I went to the garage and stuck this old wheel, I think it was off a Thunderjet or a Meteor flight, into the Oxalic acid solution. The tub I have had some parts soaking in it so all I did was dip the part of the rim that would fit into the old mixture. This stuff was made about 5 weeks ago and has had a bunch of things soaked in it. The rim was in it for about 11/12 hours. All I did today was take it out and wash off the solution.
> 
> View attachment 47261View attachment 47262
> 
> 
> Now I have to finish cleaning it. If i keep dipping and turning it will take me until next week...guess I got to get a bigger vat.
> 
> You can find some really inexpensive suppliers of Oxalic acid online or on ebay. I haven't tried any of the other suggestions,Yet, but I am happy with this stuff.
> 
> Have Fun
> Tom




If you pick up a hot water heater pan at a home improvement store plug the drain hole you can do a whole wheel at the same time


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## Buster1

When I did my OA baths on parts, I generally went with 3-4 spoonfulls per gallon...or so.  It didn't need to be rocket science on the mixtures to work well.

I found the bath water could be reused quite a bit and still be effective, though I have no way of saying for how long, or for how much product.  My bath bins were filled with yellow-ish stuff, but they solution continued to work.

*One thing I will CAUTION you to though.  OA is acid.  And even though it is mild, I read here*

http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/oxalic_acid-2H2O.htm

http://www.sciencestuff.com/msds/C2193.html

http://www.ontariobee.com/index.php?action=display&cat=49&doc=Oxalic_acid_safety_sheet.pdf

  that you really gotta be careful of the stuff.  Absorption thru the skin (and other means) can cause some major health issuse.  Please look at the links and take all precautions when using it.

Nate


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## spook1s

EXCELLENT links!! Thank you!


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## izee2

*Yikes*

Nate,

  Jeeez...guess I should have been wearin gloves.  Thanks for the post.

Dave K

 Going to pick up one of those pans at lowes. Need something bigger. Thanks for the tip.

Dave M

 I use wd40 and steel wool to take care of any stubborn rust then I use a paste or even a liquid wax to finish up.


Thanks for all the info.


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## ridingtoy

Just to add my 2 cents to what has already been posted, I use 2TBS (1/8 cup) of crystals to a gallon of water. I bought a large, clear plastic storage container with snap on lid for my "acid tank". The tank is large enough to accomodate trike handlebars laid flat when placed in there diagonally. I usually make up 5 gallons at a time, which gives me a solution depth of about 5" to 6". The first gallon jug of water is hot with crystals poured in first. The hot water helps dissolve all the crystals faster before pouring in the tank. The other 4 gallons are just straight hot water. Warmer water does seem to help the process of rust removal along.

I've let painted steel parts like rear trike wheels set in the solution for up to two days with no damage to the paint. Usually after a day I'll go over the parts with an old toothbrush and see how things have progressed. If it's not quite there I'll soak for a second day. I do use protective gloves and safety glasses in case something accidently drops and splashes the water up.

Oh, and for open ended items like handlebars, I use rubber stoppers purchased at just about any hardware store to keep the acid out of where I don't need it to work.

Dave


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## petritl

I need some help, I am soaking a frame, wheel, fork, and chain guard in a large vessel. I mixed 2 cups of oxalic acid into 80 gallons of warm water.

Is the mix really 10 cups for the 80 gallons? Seems like a lot


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## brownster69

*acid*

where did you you buy yours at


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## petritl

Ace true value hardware


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## bike

*I have used muriatic*



redline1968 said:


> muiradic acid was my thoughts at home depot it is a great rust remover also.




and then stored the tightly closed container in a metal cabinet- fumes caused rust! I now have the container in a sealed plastic bag...


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## brownster69

*thanks*

thanks much





petritl said:


> Ace true value hardware


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## petritl

I added another 2.5 cups (40 tablespoons) to the 80 gallons of water . I believe the mixture is now 1 tablespoon per gallon of water.


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## petritl

The blue tarp soon sprung multiple small leaks (about 10 gallons a day) so I moved the operation to the driveway. Last night the temps were cold enough that the fish tank heater could no longer keep the mixture from freezing. The frame , rear wheel and drop stand had been soaking for nearly a week.

I removed the parts from the solution put them in the bath tub to soak in water and wiped down with a cloth to remove the surface scale (BTW; I wouldn't use the bath tub again, even for rinsing, it makes a huge mess). I removed the parts from the water and sprayed them down with the apply when wet spray wax to keep the parts from flash rusting. The original paint is missing in a lot of places and is very tired where it still is but my intention is to have the motorbike look as it had been pulled out of a barn so I will keep it this way.




Before:


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## Buster1

Looks good.  You may have to clean it up a few times and/or rinse a few more to be sure all the OA is gone and that the yellow stuff gets removed too.

Fish heater?  I hope your fish don't mind donating that to the cause!


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## reeviint

The stuff won't go bad in storage, but the water will disapate if left in the open increasing the acid strength. its good junk to use but it is a acid and will eat away skin and other things it will harm paint an cause it too lift off the part.


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## HIGGINSFOREVER

dougfisk said:


> I use white crystals and start at about 2 tablespoons per gallon of water.  You can use much stronger or weaker; the concentration seems only to affect the speed at which it works.  You can collect in a container and re-use, adding more powder if it seems too slow.
> 
> I find it works best on chrome plating that is still mostly sound under the rust.  I find it counterproductve if the plating is too far gone.  It turns some types of plating green, grey or black.   It quickly removes some type of plating used on spoke nipples.




I know this is a old thread but you say you use white crystals.Are you talking about oxalic acid.If so can you tell me were to buy this in a crystal form,all i have seem is a liquid


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## SirMike1983

HIGGINSFOREVER said:


> I know this is a old thread but you say you use white crystals.Are you talking about oxalic acid.If so can you tell me were to buy this in a crystal form,all i have seem is a liquid




Try a paint shop like Duron, Benjamin Moore, or Sherwin Williams. Some of the small, old style hardware stores also have it. Look for Savogran Deck/Wood Bleach in the small plastic cup-type container. If you read the smaller print it should say oxalic acid somewhere.


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## izee2

Try ebay.. The wood bleach sold at hardware stores cost around $7 or $8 for a 12 oz container. You can pick up 2lbs on ebay for $11.50 shipped.


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## HIGGINSFOREVER

Sirmike1983 Izee2,Thanks for the help


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## Lynn King Wilson

*yellow deposit*

I'm still learning so this may not be worth a lot.  In my very limited experience with oxalic acid, I notice that even mixing it at the recommended 2 tbls per gallon results in a yellow deposit on the parts soaked.  It does not just wipe off and must be scrubbed.  I have used both the crystals and the liquid forms of the acid. Anyone know how to prevent this?

I was happy to find the info about soaking the parts in a bath of soda.  I used washing soda instead of baking soda. It makes me feel confident that the acid is neutralized.   

I live in the south where it gets very hot and I've noticed that the bath evaporates very, very quickly some days.  I have found that just adding additional water revives the bath, and it doesn't seem to weaken the solution.  

Oxalic acid, in my experience, does not just melt the rust off like I expected.  There is still quite a bit of cleaning to be done afterwards.  In my very, very limited experience, it takes a multi-tool approach to getting rust off.


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## SirMike1983

Lynn King Wilson said:


> I'm still learning so this may not be worth a lot.  In my very limited experience with oxalic acid, I notice that even mixing it at the recommended 2 tbls per gallon results in a yellow deposit on the parts soaked.  It does not just wipe off and must be scrubbed.  I have used both the crystals and the liquid forms of the acid. Anyone know how to prevent this?
> 
> I was happy to find the info about soaking the parts in a bath of soda.  I used washing soda instead of baking soda. It makes me feel confident that the acid is neutralized.
> 
> I live in the south where it gets very hot and I've noticed that the bath evaporates very, very quickly some days.  I have found that just adding additional water revives the bath, and it doesn't seem to weaken the solution.
> 
> Oxalic acid, in my experience, does not just melt the rust off like I expected.  There is still quite a bit of cleaning to be done afterwards.  In my very, very limited experience, it takes a multi-tool approach to getting rust off.




How strong is the mixture? The pre-made stuff is usually stronger than needed and is geared toward bleaching wood. It could be your mixture is a bit too concentrated.


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## Crazy8

For those looking for a large pan:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0060HPCA0/ref=asc_df_B0060HPCA02791948?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=nextagus0039251-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B0060HPCA0


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## GiovanniLiCalsi

A really good and inexpensive pan can be bought at Home Depot.
In the concrete cement section of the store you can find a mud pan for mixing mortar.


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## jd56

*Search Oxalic Acid in the Cabe search*



Lynn King Wilson said:


> I'm still learning so this may not be worth a lot.  In my very limited experience with oxalic acid, I notice that even mixing it at the recommended 2 tbls per gallon results in a yellow deposit on the parts soaked.  It does not just wipe off and must be scrubbed.  I have used both the crystals and the liquid forms of the acid. Anyone know how to prevent this?
> 
> I was happy to find the info about soaking the parts in a bath of soda.  I used washing soda instead of baking soda. It makes me feel confident that the acid is neutralized.
> 
> I live in the south where it gets very hot and I've noticed that the bath evaporates very, very quickly some days.  I have found that just adding additional water revives the bath, and it doesn't seem to weaken the solution.
> 
> Oxalic acid, in my experience, does not just melt the rust off like I expected.  There is still quite a bit of cleaning to be done afterwards.  In my very, very limited experience, it takes a multi-tool approach to getting rust off.




Sire mike and rebirth had a few mixtures they used....but this one worked for me..be careful to keep and eye on it though. I usually do about a 4 hr soak at first but, rust affected areas have different levels...just keep an eye on it. Use gloves too.
*solution was 2 1/2 Tbls of oxalic acid per 1 gallon of warm water*

Here is one of the posts of many on this subject

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showth...int-chrome-repair/page2&highlight=oxalic+bath


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## SirMike1983

With painted items, I never really leave them unattended. I stay nearby and check in every few minutes. These 1940s Schwinn DX fenders did not fit into the bath entirely, so I did them in halves. This made for 4 total cycles, two per fender and one per half-fender. The cycles were a few minutes each. Every so often I would pull the fender and rub it down with a dry, clean rag to check the state of the rust/paint. When satisfied I pulled them, rinsed, dried, and set them in the sun to remove any residual moisture.

As you can see, the acid pulls up the rust, but where the rust has compromised your paint entirely, you'll be left with bare metal. The acid can clean up paint to the extent it removes light, surface rust from the top of the paint. However, once the rust is below the paint or on the metal itself, the acid will take you down to bare metal. It won't put paint back, obviously enough.


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## Stinky_Sullivan

If rust is under the paint, the paint is coming off eventually anyway.


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