# HELP! TEENS? MOTOBIKE MYSTERY FRAME I.D.



## eddy2dice (May 5, 2020)

Hi folks, I bought this mystery teens? 20s motobike Bare frame and haven’t a clue!! Can anyone please shed any light, there’s no badge but has vertical badge holes aprox 2 7/8” apart, has a slightly thinner lower top tube with trumpet joinery that meets the head touching the bottom tube that also meets the head.
Has the nice slightly sloping forward top tube and a 5” headstock. Slight remnants of red and grey/blue paint. Cant make out numbers on the bb shell other than maybe a 7.
Nearest I can find is a pic of a teens Hawthorne deluxe or Davis?. Any help much apreciated, it’d be great to give it the correct badge! many Thanks, Eddy


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## bricycle (May 5, 2020)

Could be an Elgin or a Napoleon or a Mead or a Flying Mercury








						1915 Napoleon project | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

OK,  thank you




					thecabe.com


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## Archie Sturmer (May 5, 2020)

No serial numbers; the oval rear fork stays may be a clue (?).


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## SKPC (May 6, 2020)

Eddie.  Recently, I have noticed that the rear fork fittings and adjusting screw designs are many times very different on these old moto frames.  Yours has one of those differences and your frame shows it...



I have seen other moto frames with this feature but have go do more sleauthing to see if it is only one maker doing it..
It could be an early Emblem, Columbia or Consolodated which seemed to have used double-trumpets on some of their steeds.
See below mystery frame that is very close to yours and has this same rear "dropout" little/big design...









						Westfield frame??
					

Hello I need information for this frame. Westfield????  Davis ??? Year ????  Thank you




					thecabe.com


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## eddy2dice (May 7, 2020)

SKPC said:


> Eddie.  Recently, I have noticed that the rear fork fittings and adjusting screw designs are many times very different on these old moto frames.  Yours has one of those differences and your frame shows it...
> View attachment 1188450
> I have seen other moto frames with this feature but have go do more sleauthing to see if it is only one maker doing it..
> It could be an early Emblem, Columbia or Consolodated which seemed to have used double-trumpets on some of their steeds.
> ...



Oh yeah, good spotting I never noticed that, I’ve been concentrating on so many little differences in all the different frames I missed that


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## eddy2dice (Jun 18, 2020)

So on cleaning this up I’ve found the original paint to have been a burnt orange colour which I guess could suggest flying mercury?


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## SKPC (Jun 18, 2020)

I really like this frame E2d.  Saving any paint remnants when none appear to exist as you have done gives you the thumbs up!  You may try a 600 grade wet paper and in an inconspicuous  area and slightly take the top of the paint off to see if the paint brightens up in that one spot to determine actual color.  Good teaser pics!


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## eddy2dice (Jul 8, 2020)

Bump


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## Archie Sturmer (Apr 16, 2021)

I believe that the frame is an early Excelsior, (even without the characteristic volcano type joint between the truss tube and the seat tube mast). 
An “Excelsior” (E) head badge might fit the vertical holes in the head tube. 
I try to be careful in comparing Davis and Excelsior “pictures” of bicycles, because many Excelsiors are found with, and were advertised with, Davis chain ring sprockets.


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## SKPC (Apr 17, 2021)

How difficult is identifying the makers of these badge-less and/or badged frames?  Very much so.   We all love a good mystery as to who had their hands in manufacturing these early USA, motobike-era frames.  Below is a link to another early frame discussed with particularly informative data provided by @fordsnake.   Is it a Westfield?   Excelsior?  Consolodated?
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-frame.169106/

I have a similar conundrum with a P.McClerren teens frame as well with construction elements similar to Eddies frame,  but with horizontal badge holes and the badge_ intact_.  Even with the original badge on the frame, the question remains: Who made it?  Not many replies on this one.








						Teens/20's S.M.S Moto Frame Identification | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

This frame I had posted up earlier for @patmcclerren2 at a high price(no sale)so he was nice enough to sell it to me for a lower one.  I would like help identifying the maker. I have my suspicions.  The badge is original to the frame and is hard to find on a lone frame like this, but it really...




					thecabe.com
				




Stay bridges below from my badged frame above that are very similar to this @eddy2dice frame


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