# Mercian bike info needed



## marius.suiram (Jul 29, 2018)

It is a 51 cm frame, so too small so I am willing to sell it.
but because of the mix of components i am thinking to sell the frame separate.
any idea about the year/period and a value for the frame?
Has Stronglight head set and BB.
Campagnolo rear ends, probably fork too.
Gali brakes, Suntour endbar shifters, Suntour XC front derailleur, I think the rear is Huret titanium something.
Italian rims, unknown for me hubs.
The hubs don't have skewers but nuts.


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## bulldog1935 (Jul 29, 2018)

in the old days, everyone mixed components.  In 1975, anyone with a brain swapped their Campy RD for a SunTour Cyclone - it was lighter, wider ranging and worked better - and cheap (in 1988, Campy finally copied it across every gruppo).

Mercian is still in business, so you can ask them specific questions about your frame.
http://mercian.alt-design-dev.co.uk/
sexy lugs


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## juvela (Jul 29, 2018)

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hello marius,

lugs are suggestive of the Vincitore model but there are differences as well.

if you look at the online information sources they will describe stock models such as Olympic, Barrachi Road, Vincitore, etc.

one thing to keep in mind with this marque is that they produced a great many framsets over the years which differed from stock models.

there was a Mercian stockist near my home for decades.  recall once asking the proprietor what model a frame or frames were.  he responded that he specified what he wanted and they built to his specification so the frames in his establishment did not line up with stock models as seen in brochures.

agree with other posters elsewhere that you would be ahead to break it down and offer the frameset separately due to the component jumble it exhibits.

best wishes with it.  

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## marius.suiram (Jul 29, 2018)

Thank you for the quick Info.
What about  : hubs, rims and rear derailleur. Any idea of maker and model?


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## juvela (Jul 29, 2018)

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Rear mech Huret Duopar.





Unfamiliar with these hubs.

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## bulldog1935 (Jul 29, 2018)

The hubs are American Classic.
I have a pair of black ones on an old Mavic tubie wheelset, but don't have a good photo.
Sealed bearing, similar to Phil Wood (I have 2 sets of Phil hubs), but the diameter shoulders are in two different places over the hub width, and yours match the original late-70/early-80s AC, also matching the age of the Duopar.  Phil and AC both created their sealed-bearing hubs about the same time (Phil were 3 years earlier).
Either brand, the most efficient-rolling hubs ever made - my buddy Stevo has a recent AC set on his Dahon Tournado.
You can get new bearings from Boca, probably bike shop work to replace the bearings.
I think your rims are H+Son
https://amclassic.com/company

ok, found this photo of my old AC hub from when first building up my Moser frame - this was a gratis wheelset, and let me ride the bike until I found my C-Record/Moskva clincher wheelset. 




I will totally disagree with the component jumble comment.  The builder of that bike ordered a high-quality custom frameset and knew what he wanted.
Gruppo was an 80s (and later) marketing scheme.  
That said, the demand for a Mercian frame might bring as much or more than the complete bike, but those are nice wheels.


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## marius.suiram (Jul 30, 2018)

Thank you for all these new info.
I will keep the set of wheels.
The derailleurs and shifters are like the ones coming on the Trek 720 I had a while ago, i think it was 84. I need to go back and check.
This is a touring bike, right?


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## bulldog1935 (Jul 30, 2018)

marius.suiram said:


> ...
> This is a touring bike, right?



definitely a touring frame, possibly King of Mercia, with the multiple M5 bosses (or possibly M6?) on the dropouts.
One drop-out boss is for fender, the second is for a rack stay.

Also, with the half-step + granny triple and wide rear - he designed his drivetrain for climbing with load - wide range, and close, evenly spaced gear steps.
This is also why he picked the Duopar RD, to cover the range with sufficient chain wrap - nothing random on his nice bike.
Here's my version with a Cyclone GT RD and Shimano 600 FD




I rode this to 4th place in yesterday's 7-mi sprint to the Alamodome, and on the 14 hilly miles home, our friend on a carbon road bike couldn't climb with me.

I would find the s/n, e-mail Mercian, and ask them for details of the frame - how it was ordered, date, etc.
http://mercian.alt-design-dev.co.uk/


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## bulldog1935 (Jul 30, 2018)

backing up on the hubs
AC and Phil - there are replaceable axle stubs on each side of the hub.  Looks like your axle stubs have a set-screw for fixing.


marius.suiram said:


> View attachment 845282



The axle stub can contain the 11mm dropout shoulder and be used with a Q/R skewer




or, the axle stub end can be flat and female-thread M8, with the 9mm (3/8" - usually fixie) or 11mm (road and mountain bike) dropout guide in an external shouldered washer






Nice thing about the replaceable axle stubs, you can easily change rear axle spacing - e.g, rear axle spacing on my '57 Lenton just above is only 115mm with 3/8" axle slots in the dropouts - fits S/A hubs and axle, or 4 cogs on a freewheel hub - this set was custom-designed between me and the machinist at Phil, and the wheel dish had to be approved by Phil engineering (and let me use a 5-sp freewheel - I got good dish using Synergy off-center rims).

At the end of the bike boom, standard rear axle widths increased with number of rear cogs, 120-122mm (5 cogs), 126mm (6-7 cogs), 130mm (8-11), and up to 135mm on MTB and many all-road bikes today.
With 6 cogs, your rear axle spacing is 126mm, and dates your frame to 80s.
your guy also built a strong wheel, with very low dish.


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## Bikerider007 (Jul 30, 2018)

I can't read the brand on yours but recently someone on FB was looking for bars like that with the holes in them. They do look nice.


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## juvela (Jul 30, 2018)

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The handlebar worn by the Mercian is a Sakae Ringyo product.

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?i.d.=6ACE7119-9C2A-4CBB-BAF8-13F2B6FB3E4E&Enum=112&AbsPos=151

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## Duchess (Jul 30, 2018)

Looks like the rear derailleur is too short-caged for the gear range—it's stretched pretty far and the chain's not even in the big ring. Could be the chain's too short, but the cage looks too short to me. If someone chose that combo, then they must have been very conscientious of their ratio changes when they rode. Otherwise, they tossed on one or more of those components for sale.


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## bulldog1935 (Jul 31, 2018)

chain wrap on the Duopar is 36T - he designed his drivetrain around that derailleur, also as described in the ad juvela posted




Duopar chainwrap is 2 teeth more than my Cyclone GT RD, and equivalent of Many MTB and long-cage touring derailleurs made today.
Max chain wrap on modern RD is 39T.  (people today using giant rear cogs, 42t and larger on their 1x11 get a little more using a RD bridge piece that essentially lengthens the dropout)
Max rear cog on Duopar is 36t, v 32t on Cyclone GT.  (though I can't imagine why anybody would want 36t rear on a triple)
His small ring looks to be about 30T, and I'm running 26T granny on my cyclotouriste.
He'd have no problem covering every gear combination.

If you visit IBoB google group, you'll find people who would still choose those components if they were building the bike today.

Heck, look at me, as far as I'm concerned, there are only 2 RDs - SunTour, and modern SunTour copies, post-'88-Campy and Microshift.

As far as the specific derailleur position, it's on the largest rear cog and looks like it will be at exactly 45-degrees if it were on large-large, also correct chain length.
Of course, there is never any reason to ride large-large, just as there is never any reason to ride small-small.
The half-step jump on the two big front chainrings is probably only 3-4T.  The purpose of half-step rings is to split the difference on the rear cog steps.
The shifting algorithm with half-steps becomes always shift first in front, then adjust in rear as needed.
(most people have never learned how to ride and always shift in the rear)
A well-thought-out half-step triple (x 6 or 7) will do anything a new compact double x 11 will do, and often better.


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## marius.suiram (Jul 31, 2018)

The shifting was working fine. Now the bike is parts. 
Here is a picture with the chain on bigger sprockets.


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## bulldog1935 (Jul 31, 2018)

chain length is (was) perfect


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