# Oh no, not another Spaceliner!



## Uniblab (Mar 26, 2012)

Here's the heap I picked up on Sunday at the Seattle bike show. Some may be critical of the rust but that's the only thing holding it together! And yes, the rear fender IS that dark (with rust).

Can anyone tell me what style tailight this originally had? I've seen some with 2 reflector jewels and others have a snazzy illuminated lens...while others yet have a round flat flashing light on top near the tail. Color me confused!

Tried looking for the serial number but couldn't find it. Thought it was on the underside near the kickstand but nothing there (unless I need to remove the kickstand?) Anyone know where exactly to look?


----------



## jpromo (Mar 26, 2012)

To answer a few of your questions, your bike most certainly had a delta light box on the back of the rack. There are two holes which it would have mounted to in the carrier. Your rear fender is so sad because batteries left in the light leaked down all over the fender. I have a bike that looked just like that and it cleaned up shockingly well with an oxalic acid bath.

Serial can be found on one of the dropouts, at the rear axle. You'll probably see an MO(number). That number should be the second digit of your year. MO5 = '65 MO6 etc. That's my understanding at least.

I say pick up some ultra fine (#0000) steel wool, WD-40 and/or chrome polish and start scrubbing! Or pick up some oxalic powder and make a concoction in some sort of bin. Good luck! They're fun bikes, I've had 3 of them.


----------



## Uniblab (Mar 26, 2012)

Thanks for the info on the serial number and your CSI evaluation of what happened to the rear fender...I was wondering why it was so much worse than any other area.

Took a gander at the droputs and found the following numbers on the left side (nothing on the right)

502 469010 768429

No letters unless a zero might be a "O" The 502 denotes Sears from what I could find on this site (and others) but I can't figure out what model or submodel this may be. Will double check the numbers in the daylight but I'm pretty sure I saw what I saw.


----------



## jd56 (Mar 27, 2012)

MO? Will probably be covered by the nut and washer that secured the rear wheel to the bike frame on the left side. Its there. Take the nut off and you'll find it.
Nice front rat trap on the front fender. The rear fender should clean up as JP mentioned. Unless the chrome is peeling. The fenders can be found. The front fork tips still are red so matching the tank in that color is what you need to find. I'll keep an eye out for one.

Here is an idea of what the rear tailight style is supposed be look like. Keep in mind this is a Western Flyer not a Spaceliner style bike. But the battery can or tray is basically the same and mounts the same way. The rear lens would be different but similar. 











Thanks for sharing the pics. And your bike is a far cry from being a "heap"...just saying


----------



## jpromo (Mar 27, 2012)

Oh, I just remembered, I have a spare rear fender with some chrome loss but what's there is clean. If yours is toast, let me know; I'd sell it for a few dollars plus the cost of shipping.


----------



## vincev (Mar 27, 2012)

The biggest problem is that the tank is missing.It probably be very costly and cost almost as much as the bike is worth .You also might want to replace the seat if you are going to make it original.Pedals dont run too much..I would probably try to sell the front springer and look for a complete bike with correct parts or save the springer in case you find a nice original.Start looking on ebay .The grips should be easy to find. .These are nice looking bikes when they are complete.Good Luck.


----------



## Uniblab (Mar 27, 2012)

*More pix*

Thanks for the further tips and suggestions. I realize that the cost of restoration will exceed the value, that can probably be said for the majority of bikes! Am going to just replace bits as they become available with a full resto down the road (unless I find a minty bike in the meantime). Jpromo, I think I'll take you up on your kind offer of the rear fender, do you have any pix?

This evening I repacked all the wheel bearings. What little grease that remained was more coagulated than my arteries. Also serviced the steering stem bearings and freed up the handlebar stem so now was able to fine tune the height adjustment. When I had the front wheel out I took apart the fork rockers to check the pivots on the shouldered bolts. As Dean Wormer might say about the amount of grease "Zero point zero" Yegads!

Was able to knock off some of the rust but this is a job that I don't have the patience for.







PS to VinceV, I'll have you know that I reside in Sane. When I went to get the plane ticket they told me that only they offer one way tickets.


----------



## jd56 (Mar 28, 2012)

*That "heap" is no longer*

Anthony she is looking good. Amazing what elbow grease wd40 and 0000 steel wool can do.
How does the frames clearcoat look?
I spent days scraping mine off. But she shines now.
Find a tank for yours and tailight looks to be all that needs to be done.
Correct pedals and grips are easy to find.
The red and white crashbar seat is obtainable as well.
Good luck on the resto.
Jd


----------



## Uniblab (Mar 28, 2012)

JD, thanks for the kind words. It does look better but no where near as nice as the pix LOL Being a mechanic by trade (and nature) I concentrated on that aspect. Ever since starting in the field some 30 something years ago I've always had a psychosis regarding wheel bearings. It was raining last night so I could only ride it around the shop, may be able to take it out today to see what a difference there is. Do you think that inflating the tires to 40psi instead of the 10 that was in them might help any? LOL

PS Lest anyone chastise me for putting that much air in them consider this:
1) Air is free
2) The sidewalls say "Inflate to 40psi" NOT "Max 40psi"


----------



## jd56 (Mar 28, 2012)

The grease always seems to take a while to get that smooth ride at least that is what I'm experienceing with the park grease.

And I put enough air to the point where it is a hard bump bone shattering feel and then back it off till I feel no more bumpy ride. 
The middleweights seem to be more of a rigid ride to me than the ballooners bu,t the padding I have on my backend isn't what it used to be....just saying....I know TMI


----------



## Uniblab (Mar 28, 2012)

jd56 said:


> The grease always seems to take a while to get that smooth ride at least that is what I'm experienceing with the park grease.
> 
> And I put enough air to the point where it is a hard bump bone shattering feel and then back it off till I feel no more bumpy ride.
> The middleweights seem to be more of a rigid ride to me than the ballooners bu,t the padding I have on my backend isn't what it used to be....just saying....I know TMI




That's so much TMI that I'm gonna hafta sleep with the lights on tonight!


----------



## Uniblab (Mar 28, 2012)

Update: Forgot to mention that I never did find the MO number. I checked the dropout with the rear wheel removed and thoroughly cleaned the area, even used an illuminated magnifying glass. NADA. Seems they didn't stamp it. Has anyone seen (or not seen) this before?

Ran into a buddy who may be able to get me free chrome plating, whoo hoo! That reminds me of the New York State Trooper motto: "If it's free it's for me!"


----------



## jd56 (Mar 29, 2012)

I would ask Phil about the MO stamping. He would know.
I read that there should be a MO stamped prefix but, then Ive seen serial numbers listed here without too. I just assumed they dodnt give us the prefix.
502 prefix imdicates a sears. Cant help you on the rest. Phil knows.

Brayne cells do grow back but, i havent grown any yet. Dang 70's is where I killed mine. But It was fun killing em....lol
I brighter than some but, dumber than most.


----------



## PCHiggin (Mar 29, 2012)

*MO....*

...Stands for Murray Ohio Manufacturing.Cool bike,I always wanted one


----------



## jd56 (Mar 29, 2012)

PCHiggin said:


> ...Stands for Murray Ohio Manufacturing.Cool bike,I always wanted one




He says he doesn't have the MO prefix on his serial number.
Are some of the 502 serial numbers just not have a MO stamped prefix?
I am aware the MO reference but there should be a letter or number suffix to the stamp to indicate the year, I always thought. 

If there is no MO stamping then what determines the year?


----------



## PCHiggin (Mar 29, 2012)

jd56 said:


> He says he doesn't have the MO prefix on his serial number.
> Are some of the 502 serial numbers just not have a MO stamped prefix?
> I am aware the MO reference but there should be a letter or number suffix to the stamp to indicate the year, I always thought.
> 
> If there is no MO stamping then what determines the year?




I'm not a pro when it comes to Murray serial numbers but I dont think they provide any DECIPHERABLE info on year. Someone may have researched this and the info might be available  but I dont believe so. I  think you need to compare the bike to dated catalogs  for any positive ID. Some members have compiled a ton of literature and made a data base between dated ads with pics and known bikes with their serial numbers. This sounds like a good project for you with the different Spaceliners.


----------



## jd56 (Mar 29, 2012)

*Not a pro either. OJT*

I'm not an expert either. I thought I knew all there was to know about the Murray Serial number project and used it religiously. Then someone said it was not written in gold. So I still have reservations going by it. But it reads here as Sears and Gambles did not use the MO prefix. So maybe your right on comparing to the catalog is the only way to narrow the year.
So when in doubt I ask the gurus here on the Cabe. The Date book I got from ABC doesn't cover the newer years, which he has.
Here is the link that I was using in the past:

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-7014.html

*I don't know how far back this goes , but I know that Murray used a single letter to represent the year since at least 1949. Most of these bikes up until the early 60's had the serial number stamped on the bottom of the bottom bracket. I have seen the letters MOS stamped on most of these. I ASSUME that they stand for Murray of Ohio Supply. This is usually followed by a - and a single letter. That letter will be the year code. After the year code will be a 2 or 3 digit number that stands for the model number. This excludes bikes built for Sears and Gambles(Hiawatha). Sears bikes had a 502 and Gambles bikes had a WG or a WG and a single digit. Sears bikes then had a 2 - 5 digit number afterwards that stood as the model number and was actually used in there catalogs as the part number. Gambles Hiawathas were the same way. 

F = 49
 G = 50
 H = 51
 I = 52
 J = 53
 K = 54
 L = 55
 M = 56
 N = 57
 P = 58
 R = 59
 S = 60
 T = 61 
U = 62
 W = 63
 X = 64
 Y = 65

 In 65 they were changing there serial number style and by then they were on the left rear dropout. Some 65 bikes had an MO5 which stood for Murray of Ohio 1965. After these 3 digits was a 2 or 3 digit model number followed by and X and a 1 or 2 digit number that I will discuss momentarily.
 MO5 = 65
 MO6 = 66
 MO7 = 67 
MO8 = 68
 In 69, they changed the layout yet again. They dropped the O. They also went to a 4 digit model number.
 M9 = 69
 M0 = 70
 and so on.
 This is what I have so far on the X numbers. We need to add to the list as more show up. Ron and I were talking about these numbers recently. We figure that a customer had to order a minimum number of bikes per order to have there own X number. If they didn't order a minimum number of bikes, they possibly shared an X number with a Murray badged bike. Kenny. 
X6 or X6? = Otasco 
X7 = BF Goodrich 
X10 = Westernflyer (Western Auto) 
X12 = All Pro (Kmart) 
X13 = Murray 
X18 = Hiawatha (Gambles) 
X25 = Foremost (JC Penneys) 
X28 = ? 
X43 = Murray 
X55 = Murray 
X67 = Sportscrest 
X69 = Special for 1969 (in 69 only, could have been used other years as a different meaning) 
X70 = Special for 1970 (in 70 only, could have been used other years as a different meaning) 
X71 = Sportscrest (?) Also Special for 1971 (in 71 only,could have been used other years as different meaning) 
X81 = Murray 
X82 = Murray 
X83 = Might actually be a Sears number?????? 
X84 = Murray*


----------



## PCHiggin (Mar 29, 2012)

*I had No Idea.....*

......The years had been deciphered,cool! I wonder if this stuff was available when I still had my ColorFlow and girls JetFlow? I relied on a book I bought back in the mid 90's to ID them.I sold the C/F to a member here,maybe he's reading and can nail down the year.The J/F went to an older gentleman near me and I lost his number.Thanks for posting.


----------



## jd56 (Mar 29, 2012)

*ABC's Date Book*

I know you got one of these?
This date Book covers some manufacturers (AMF-CWC, Huffman, Monark, Murray,and Westfied)  and years ranging from 37-58".
It has been a big help. Some information that may not be needed but some great info on serial numbers, stamped serial number locations, part breakdowns w/ pictures...a good reference for a newbie like myself...and for $20, Brian has done a great job supplying it.

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showth...re-bicycle-reprinted-book&highlight=date+book


----------



## PCHiggin (Mar 29, 2012)

*Dont Have One.....*

...I pretty much stick with Schwinn these days and their s/n info is everywhere. I've used the info so much over the years that I know most of the late 50's-90's  stuff without looking it up. I'll keep this book in mind,I like like reference literature and maybe I'll buy one.I think Oldroads.com and Nostalgic.net have excellent serial number charts for most makers.


----------



## Uniblab (Mar 29, 2012)

Thanks again for the input (sounds like something a slut would say). Ive seen that same post which lists all those model year codes. The suggestion to research using literature is sound but it can't really be applied in this instance as I'm lacking the majority of the extra parts which are the primary points of identification (such as the tank and tailight)

Dollar short, day late and hung over is the way I roll.


----------



## jd56 (Mar 29, 2012)

Unless this is a show bike and you're worried about the exact year, which I think Phil can still figure it out and a few others, then get a red spaceliner tank and red or chrome rear rack with the finned top with or without the tailight and roll with it.
It's going to look great and you're already getting there.


----------



## Uniblab (Mar 29, 2012)

Yep, the reality is that due to scarcity of the correct parts (if and when they can be identified) that I'll be "forced" to use whatever comes along in a timely manner. It's not as if I'm restoring a Duesenberg where everything has to be spot on perfect, although I dd own a auto restoration shop and currently build custom motorcycles, hence my anal-ness in trying to finger out what year and model....this had become second nature to me but in this case I'll cobble this together in a way that is representative instead of being concours correct. Kinda like meeting the spirit of the law instead of the word.

Word? Werd up! 

PS I've already resigned my self to not being 100% correct when I noticed that superdooper kool chain guard with the vented slots that came on certain years or variations of these bikes. As for the rear fender reflector, I'm digging that upside down teardrop with the big 'n little round reflectors.


----------



## jd56 (Mar 31, 2012)

*only the artist really knows*

With all the variations on these only the artist or restorer and the cabe member really knows what isnt correct.
Have fun with it. These look awesome regardless what is changed.
Try not to mix a sears chainguard and a non sears tank with the rotary knobs as that is a giveaway.
She'll will look great.


----------



## Uniblab (Mar 31, 2012)

You overlooked the additional fact that only my hairdresser knows for sure LOL


----------



## BrentP (Apr 30, 2012)

Uniblab said:


> Thanks for the info on the serial number and your CSI evaluation of what happened to the rear fender...I was wondering why it was so much worse than any other area.
> 
> Took a gander at the droputs and found the following numbers on the left side (nothing on the right)
> 
> ...




Your model number is 46901.  That tells you that it's a men's, 26", chrome frame, 1-speed, with springer fork.... whew!!!

I've been building a database of what the Spaceliner serial numbers mean.  It's not complete yet, as not all configurations were listed in the catalogs, so I've been doing some forensic work.  Whenever I see a photo of a Spaceliner in a configuration that I don't have the serial number code for, I try to get the number from the owner so I can add it to the database.


----------



## Uniblab (Apr 30, 2012)

BrentP said:


> Your model number is 46901.  That tells you that it's a men's, 26", chrome frame, 1-speed, with springer fork.... whew!!!
> 
> I've been building a database of what the Spaceliner serial numbers mean.  It's not complete yet, as not all configurations were listed in the catalogs, so I've been doing some forensic work.  Whenever I see a photo of a Spaceliner in a configuration that I don't have the serial number code for, I try to get the number from the owner so I can add it to the database.




Thanks for that, but can you finger out what year mine is? I thought that the Spaceliners (or perhaps this basic style of frame) came out in 1960 and ran to '65 or '66. Saw your mention of owning those Sears catalogs and the listings in them should be pretty much the final word on Spaceliners...although there could be a fudging of a year in either direction due to the logistics of printing the catalog and warehousing etc.  

Besides the tailight and or reflectors changing over the years, the chain guard went from a relatively nondescript smooth look (with the name imprinted) to a more futuristic vented (slotted) affair. The latter was introduced before the 7 tanks. There was a snazzier version of the former for Western Flyer versions of these bikes which had some cool dimples running along the length of the bottom edge.  

As I sniveled in a previous post, how cool would it be to compile a listing of all the permutations and variations of these bikes?


----------



## BrentP (Apr 30, 2012)

Uniblab said:


> Thanks for that, but can you finger out what year mine is? I thought that the Spaceliners (or perhaps this basic style of frame) came out in 1960 and ran to '65 or '66. Saw your mention of owning those Sears catalogs and the listings in them should be pretty much the final word on Spaceliners...although there could be a fudging of a year in either direction due to the logistics of printing the catalog and warehousing etc.
> 
> Besides the tailight and or reflectors changing over the years, the chain guard went from a relatively nondescript smooth look (with the name imprinted) to a more futuristic vented (slotted) affair. The latter was introduced before the 7 tanks. There was a snazzier version of the former for Western Flyer versions of these bikes which had some cool dimples running along the length of the bottom edge.
> 
> As I sniveled in a previous post, how cool would it be to compile a listing of all the permutations and variations of these bikes?




The Deluxe, chromed Spaceliners (like yours) were introduced in 1964; that was the first year of Spaceliner production.  They ran unchanged through 1965 (so yours is a '64 or '65), and in late 1965 a major design revision was introduced as the 1966 model.  It had a 'spacier' look, with a sharply pointed cowl, different front light, eliminated tank, and the more futuristic vented chain guard you mentioned.  I believe the revised Spaceliner ran until 1968.  It's not shown in the 1968 Christmas catalog, so I assume it was phased out in the Fall of 1968.  Throughout the entire product run, the Spaceliner was available in both chrome (deluxe) and painted (standard) versions.  The chrome (deluxe) versions were available either with or without a springer fork, while the painted (standard) versions were only available without.  The two-speed Bendix hub was available as an $8 upgrade on both the deluxe and standard bikes (although possibly not during all model years... 1964 & 1965 it was available on all bikes for certain).  The slight model variations, such as getting a springer fork or a two-speed hub gave the bike a different model number.  What I'm compiling is a list of all model numbers and all variations.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to determine if any of the numbers after the five digit model number indicates the year of manufacture.  I need to collect more serial numbers from known model years to determine what the pattern is and whether one of the digits signifies the model year.

Here's a catalog ad from 1965 that shows what the 1964 and 1965 models looked like (the first two years of Spaceliner production).






Here's the first catalog ad to show the new 1966 version, which was produced until 1968 (first appeared in the Fall/Winter 1965 catalog).


----------



## Uniblab (Apr 30, 2012)

Thanks for posting those pix. I noticed that the 7 tank bike has a rack  with a rectangular light on top, there's one like this on fleaPay right  now. The seat on this version has lengthwise pleats while the earlier  bike seats are smooth (and either black or 2 tone...I wonder what years got which).

More small things: the seat post has a red label (decal?) which I suppose said Sears, and the slotted chain guard has some red painted areas which may or may not appear on all...not sure as the guards missing this paint might be due to fading or wear.

What I'd love to see is the rear of the rack to determine the type/style of tailights and/or reflectors they offered for any given year.


----------



## BrentP (Apr 30, 2012)

So far I have compiled 73 product codes over the three model years from 1964 to 1966.  You can truly get a headache trying to understand all the different configurations that were offered for the Spaceliner.

The rear rack you're referring to with the large rectangular light on top was introduced in late 2005 at the beginning of the 'new-style' bikes for the 2006 model year.  It was a fully chromed rack, but there are not many of them around because the majority of the bikes (even the new style) continued to be sold mostly with the original style painted racks with the undermount light and lens that projected out behind the rack.  It's my opinion that the original style painted racks were used in all five years of Spaceliner production and are interchanegable between model years, with the chrome racks being added in 1966 as an upgrade.  Interestingly, in 1966 the original style bikes, with painted frames, continued to be sold alongside the new-style painted frame bikes that were introduced for that model year.  This crossover of old and new styles ended in 1967.

Here's a pic of the chromed rack (missing the light) on a ladies bike.  Another thing to note is that, from 1966 on, when you chose the version with the chrome rear rack you also received a different saddle that had ribs running front to back (white on ladies bikes, black on mens).  If you chose the standard painted rack, you continued to receive the original style seat with silver edging and chrome crash bar.


----------



## jd56 (May 1, 2012)

BrentP said:


> So far I have compiled 73 product codes over the three model years from 1964 to 1966.  You can truly get a headache trying to understand all the different configurations that were offered for the Spaceliner.
> 
> The rear rack you're referring to with the large rectangular light on top was introduced in late 2005 at the beginning of the 'new-style' bikes for the 2006 model year.  It was a fully chromed rack, but there are not many of them around because the majority of the bikes (even the new style) continued to be sold mostly with the original style painted racks with the undermount light and lens that projected out behind the rack.  It's my opinion that the original style painted racks were used in all five years of Spaceliner production and are interchanegable between model years, with the chrome racks being added in 1966 as an upgrade.  Interestingly, in 1966 the original style bikes, with painted frames, continued to be sold alongside the new-style bikes painted frame bikes that were introduced for that model year.  This ended in 1967.
> 
> ...




BrentP, thanks for the info.


----------



## BrentP (May 1, 2012)

jd56 said:


> BrentP, thanks for the info.




No worries.  Once I get my teeth into something I'm like a dog with a bone.  

What I really want is to try to figure out if there is any type of date code in the serial numbers, but I haven't collected enough serial numbers yet to decipher any patterns.  80% of my model codes have come from catalogs, but the catalogs barely scratch the surface of the different number of Spaceliner configurations.


----------

