# 1938 Rollfast BB Bearings Needed



## Trilobite (Oct 13, 2021)

Hi All, I could use some assistance in sourcing out a replacement set of caged bottom bracket bearings for a 1938 Rollfast. I’m reassembling a friend's bike as a favor for him. The bike was torn down completely with best intentions to restore and stored in boxes in his garage years ago. I’ve methodically been unboxing, cleaning, buffing, etc., but cannot locate the bottom bracket caged bearings. I have the cups, races, dust shields, lock washers, etc., but alas, no bearings. If anyone has a set or can point me in the right direction for replacements, it would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks!


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## Archie Sturmer (Oct 13, 2021)

I like the Wheels Manufacturing 5/16” x 12, figuring that 12 is 20-25% better than only 10 or 9.  A ten-pack is enough for 5-bikes. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/194373509167?campid=5335809022


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## Trilobite (Oct 13, 2021)

Thanks so much for the referral. He'll be rolling out in no time. Cheers. 🙏🏻


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## mrg (Oct 13, 2021)

Bike looks a little later than 38.


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## bloo (Oct 14, 2021)

If it has 10 bearing cages in it now, that's what you need. They are slightly bigger than the 9 bearing and 12 bearing.

The 9 bearing and the 12 bearing are the same size as each other, but smaller than the 10.

The 10 is probably what you have because those fit a majority of American bikes from the 30s to the 70s (and probably beyond), except postwar Schwinn. 

10 bearing cages are the exception rather than the rule now, but I'll bet there's some on ebay. Or, if your cages are not damaged you can just pop new balls in them. High grade loose bearings are cheap these days.


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## Trilobite (Oct 14, 2021)

Great; thanks all, for your input. I’m not sure what was in there before, as there's no sign of the bearing retainers at all. Going to order 10s and 12s and see what fits. Not entirely sure about the year, as this was what was told to me. I’ll see if I can pull a serial #. Did a full cleaning polish on the frameset, so everything is visible. Also, Evapo-rust soaked and wire-brushed every nut, bolt, and brace. Now, have to figure out spoke length, too, as the wheels are in surprisingly good shape, but two broken spokes. Thanks for your help. 🙏🏻


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## Freqman1 (Oct 14, 2021)

Trilobite said:


> Great; thanks all, for your input. I’m not sure what was in there before, as there's no sign of the bearing retainers at all. Going to order 10s and 12s and see what fits. Not entirely sure about the year, as this was what was told to me. I’ll see if I can pull a serial #. Did a full cleaning polish on the frameset, so everything is visible. Also, Evapo-rust soaked and wire-brushed every nut, bolt, and brace. Now, have to figure out spoke length, too, as the wheels are in surprisingly good shape, but two broken spokes. Thanks for your help. 🙏🏻



Spokes should be 10 5/8" which should be easy. V/r Shawn


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## Trilobite (Oct 14, 2021)

Excellent; thanks. Bearings ordered and headed to the bike shop today. Going to get this built and back to him. There’s no more room “at the inn” for my own project bikes! 👍🏻


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## Archie Sturmer (Oct 14, 2021)

Not too sure about the 9 & 10 fit thing about modern bearing *cages*; have only read about 9 & 10 differences on an old-English guy’s website. I am familiar with undersized Colson and Westfield bottom brackets, (prior to standardization). Info about obsolete bearings is a few pages into the paper archives thread. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/p...schematics-non-discussion-thread.70318/page-6

Still learning about this stuff 1/64” at a time.


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## SilverBullet08 (Oct 14, 2021)

Someone was looking for some?Here are the correct ones on EBay 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Vintag...Columbia-Bike-/110994635997?campid=5335809022


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## bloo (Oct 14, 2021)

That appears to be a headset bearing? Wrong link? Or did I miss a post somewhere?


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## bloo (Oct 14, 2021)

In the prewar balooner era, there is mainly one type of bottom bracket set, with some caveats. From TOC through the 20s and maybe early 30s there was all sorts of weird stuff, and we see threads posted to identify it all the time. I am ignoring that. By the mid 30s there was a de-facto standard for American bottom brackets.... almost.

That "standard" is a one piece crank with 24 threads per inch and 10 bearing cages. The chainwheel is held on by the inner cone and driven by a bump on the crank arm that is almost always in the same place. The outlier is Schwinn, who had 28 threads per inch on the crank. The 10 bearing prewar Schwinn cages were the same size as everyone else's.

Oh there could be variations, like some bike brands might have a slightly larger bottom bracket tube, requiring a slightly larger OD on the cup. Some cones might be thicker than others, affecting chainline, etc. There were different types of dust cover, sometimes permanently attached to the cone, sometimes not. The 10 bearing cages all theoretically had the same dimensions and were 99% interchangeable in practice.

That changed after the war. Schwinn kept their 28 thread per inch crank threads, but came up with a whole new standard for the bearings and cones. These are the 9 bearing cages. They are slightly smaller.

When I was growing up in the 70s, there were 2 kinds of crank bearing. The 10 bearing cage fit EVERYTHING (except postwar Schwinn), and you could find some good used ones in any junkpile. If you tried to stuff it in a Schwinn cup, it would drag because it was just a tiny bit too big. The slightly smaller 9 bearing cage was a proprietary Schwinn part. Like a lot of proprietary Schwinn parts, you had to go to the Schwinn shop to get those.

In most cases you could take the whole bottom bracket set from one American bike and stick it in another. The caveat was that if you used a Schwinn bottom bracket set, you had to use a Schwinn crank because the threads were 28TPI.

And so it continued into the 80s (and probably the 90s). 9 bearing cages and 28TPI cranks for Postwar Schwinns, 10 bearing cages and 24TPI cranks for everything else.

Between then and now, something funny happened. Many aftermarket bottom bracket sets now have slightly smaller cones and cups and use the 9 bearing cages that used to be for postwar Schwinn only. These sets are for 24TPI non-Schwinn cranks. It is a combination you couldn't even buy back in the day.

Since a majority of new bottom bracket sets use the 9 bearing Schwinn-type cage, they are easier to find on ebay than the 10 bearing cage that used to be the most common.

I don't know where the 12 bearing cage came from. I think it might be a new creation. It directly interchanges with the 9-bearing one, and as such, fits most new bottom bracket sets and also postwar Schwinns.


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## razinhellcustomz (Oct 18, 2021)

Trilobite said:


> Hi All, I could use some assistance in sourcing out a replacement set of caged bottom bracket bearings for a 1938 Rollfast. I’m reassembling a friend's bike as a favor for him. The bike was torn down completely with best intentions to restore and stored in boxes in his garage years ago. I’ve methodically been unboxing, cleaning, buffing, etc., but cannot locate the bottom bracket caged bearings. I have the cups, races, dust shields, lock washers, etc., but alas, no bearings. If anyone has a set or can point me in the right direction for replacements, it would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks!
> 
> View attachment 1495363



I might have a pair , their not new, but you could have them for the price of shipping.. Good looking bike.. RideOn... Eazin..


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## Trilobite (Oct 25, 2021)

Hello again, fellow Cabers... 
Had zero success getting the Rollfast bottom bracket assembly back together. I had posted several weeks ago on the Cabe about bearings, as when my friend disassembled and boxed everything, unfortunately, the caged bearings weren’t in the boxes. It was suggested, and the resource file indicates, they were 5/16 x 10 balls, so I got those. In one of the boxes of parts were these two “mystery” washers/spacers. I didn’t know if one or both were intended to be bb parts, or if one (or both) of them belong to the headset. If I assemble the bb without a spacer, the chain line is tight to the stays, and the kickstand overlaps with the chainring, no matter where it’s adjusted to on the chainstay bridge. With one washer between the one piece crank dust guard and chainring, it still overlaps the kickstand. With both spacers installed, the chain line is straighter and the chainring clears the kickstand, BUT there are not enough threads for me to use the outer dust shield (keyed), washer (also keyed), and lock nut. Wondering if the bearings are wrong, or I’m just missing something on reassembly. I’ve scoured the Internet for any kind of schematic on the exploded assembly, but nada. And I thought bottom brackets were a fairly easy reassemble... Thanks in advance for any input!


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## bloo (Oct 25, 2021)

One of your cages looks smaller, is that an illusion? I looked all over and can't seem to find any 10 bearing cages here to take a measurement on. The 2 cages should be the same. Quantity 10 5/16" balls sounds right to me.

Spacers are used under the inner cone to correct chainline, or possibly correct clearance issues. The inner threads on the crank are a larger diameter, and if those washers have a big enough hole to go there, that's probably where they belong. Headest is a possibility I guess. At least one of the headset washers should be keyed though. Are you missing anything up there?


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## Trilobite (Oct 25, 2021)

Thanks so much for responding and assisting. This is like a 1938 jigsaw puzzle. I don’t have any keyed headset washers, just the two shown in the photo-assuming the mount for the truss rods goes above the flat washers with recesses. (Photo)

Both washers fit over the inner threads. I had tried them mounted on the outside of the dust shield against the chainring. I didn’t try them inside the dust shield, between that and the inner cone. (Photo shown with one, then both, laid over to show that they fit over the threads.)

Cheers, 

Mark


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## razinhellcustomz (Oct 25, 2021)

Trilobite said:


> Thanks so much for responding and assisting. This is like a 1938 jigsaw puzzle. I don’t have any keyed headset washers, just the two shown in the photo-assuming the mount for the truss rods goes above the flat washers with recesses. (Photo)
> 
> Both washers fit over the inner threads. I had tried them mounted on the outside of the dust shield against the chainring. I didn’t try them inside the dust shield, between that and the inner cone. (Photo shown with one, then both, laid over to show that they fit over the threads.)
> 
> ...



Looks to me the inner cone washer is flipped upside down. Try switching the inner cone washer around.. The bearings look to be two different sizes .. I still have spares if you would like... Let me know... Razin...


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## J-wagon (Oct 25, 2021)

These BB cage bearings fit my 1936 Rollfast. Standard (non schwinn) cage with 10 bearings 5/16" balls.  The left is Torrington and right is Hartford. Both same size and fit fine.


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## Trilobite (Oct 25, 2021)

Thanks, Razin, J-wagon, Bloo, and all others! 
I’ll try mounting one or both under the race, inside the dust shield, and see what that does for the chain line, and if I can get the outer nut on. Newbie here, and the previous bikes I’ve redone didn’t have spacers in the bbs. Appreciate the offer on the spares. The bearings came from the same Wheels Mfg. 10 pack, so might be angle the camera’s at, but you never know. Mistakes happen.


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## Archie Sturmer (Oct 25, 2021)

Also, the kickstand should be on the left side, and the chain ring sprocket on the right, (unless I am misunderstanding something).



Archie Sturmer said:


> Sometimes a thin (or just thinner) washer under the right side bearing cone may do the trick.
> I believe that one or two *AN960*-*1416L *(steel 7/8" x 0.032" thin) washers help sometimes.
> 
> Otherwise, I have also swapped-out for what I thought were deeper bearing cups, or shorter bearing cones.
> Sometimes the washers that may be provided with replacement bottom bracket bearing kits are too thick.


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## Trilobite (Oct 25, 2021)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Also, the kickstand should be on the left side and the chain ring sprocket on the right, (unless I am misunderstanding something).



Thanks for the spacer/washer info. 🙏🏻 I'm assuming that all the parts that came in the boxes came off this bike. Many were labeled, but not all, and there are some doubles of things like the head tube badge. It was boxed in pieces probably ten years or so ago, so… 
The kickstand nub where it protrudes through the spring/bracket is what contacts the chainring. When both spacers were in, it appeared to have the correct chain line and adequate clearance, but I had them outside the dust shield, not inside in between the shield and race. I’ll try fitting it this way. I feel like a monkey trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. Lol.


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## J-wagon (Oct 25, 2021)

I'm sure you'll figure it out. Unless your rollfast is has a different BB design than mine, than here pics of how it should look. Shows "outward" side of crank/sprocket (shouldn't need spacers or dust over). "Inward" side has one spacer (1/8" width or so) between sprocket and cone (see pen tip) . That spacer provides after install a 1/8" or so clearance between BB shell edge and sprocket. I think if that space is substantially more or if no space, then common issues are excess spacers, mismatch with cone and bearing cage, mismatched BB cups.

Good luck!


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## J-wagon (Oct 25, 2021)

Outward pic..


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## Trilobite (Oct 25, 2021)

So helpful; thank you for taking the pics. 🙏🏻 
I’ll play with it tomorrow, and fingers crossed it’ll all spin smoothly back together. I have to say, the folks on this forum are unparalleled. Cheers.


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## Archie Sturmer (Oct 25, 2021)

Trilobite said:


> The *kickstand* nub where it protrudes through the spring/bracket is what contacts the chainring.



I understand now; consider that in 1938 kickstands may have been aftermarket items or perhaps just being introduced as OEM accessories, on some models?
If the kickstand seems to be the cause of the problem, perhaps it should go, replaced by a new 26” Wald kickstand?
[but it must have worked before?]

I agree with using the OEM bottom bracket parts, whenever one can.

Like in the 1st picture in post #22, the right side cone should not leave too-many threads exposed (male or female); about ~1/8” of male threads exposed, (first two pictures in post #16), likely means that a spacing washer is missing.


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## Archie Sturmer (Oct 25, 2021)

Rollfast bottom brackets with the dust covers have a classic and vintage look.

Sometimes when I replace an entire bottom bracket set, I go for the new 11-piece with black plastic shield pieces on both sides.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274867009511?campid=5335809022


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## razinhellcustomz (Oct 26, 2021)

Trilobite said:


> So helpful; thank you for taking the pics. 🙏🏻
> I’ll play with it tomorrow, and fingers crossed it’ll all spin smoothly back together. I have to say, the folks on this forum are unparalleled. Cheers.



Make sure you use a lot of good grease on the bearings.. If you don't lube properly they while not spin smoothly. Good luck .. Razin...


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## Trilobite (Oct 29, 2021)

Hey all, with the assistance of those on this site, everything went back together fairly easily, after a bit of trial and error for chain line spacing and bearing play. There’s a huge benefit to the weight and quality of the metal used on these vintage bikes-the cups and cones polished up extremely well, with zero pitting or indentations. Both bearing assemblies spin smoothly and effortlessly.
Now, to tackle the reassembly of the fenders, etc. to the frameset, and figure out where the various pieces belong, like these two (photo). It’s a fun game I’m sure you’ve all played called, “Where the Heck Does This Thing Go?” (Smile) Thanks again!


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## razinhellcustomz (Oct 29, 2021)

Trilobite said:


> Hey all, with the assistance of those on this site, everything went back together fairly easily, after a bit of trial and error for chain line spacing and bearing play. There’s a huge benefit to the weight and quality of the metal used on these vintage bikes-the cups and cones polished up extremely well, with zero pitting or indentations. Both bearing assemblies spin smoothly and effortlessly.
> Now, to tackle the reassembly of the fenders, etc. to the frameset, and figure out where the various pieces belong, like these two (photo). It’s a fun game I’m sure you’ve all played called, “Where the Heck Does This Thing Go?” (Smile) Thanks again!
> 
> View attachment 1503994



These look like mounting brackets for the front fenders ... Good luck.. Razin..


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## Krakatoa (Oct 30, 2021)

Trilobite said:


> Hey all, with the assistance of those on this site, everything went back together fairly easily, after a bit of trial and error for chain line spacing and bearing play. There’s a huge benefit to the weight and quality of the metal used on these vintage bikes-the cups and cones polished up extremely well, with zero pitting or indentations. Both bearing assemblies spin smoothly and effortlessly.
> Now, to tackle the reassembly of the fenders, etc. to the frameset, and figure out where the various pieces belong, like these two (photo). It’s a fun game I’m sure you’ve all played called, “Where the Heck Does This Thing Go?” (Smile) Thanks again!
> 
> View attachment 1503994



Skirtguard spring anchors


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## Trilobite (Oct 31, 2021)

Really? Did a search to find out what this is, and confused as this is a men's frame, but in one of the boxes of mystery parts, there were short sections of twine-like cord, so... ? Apologies for my ignorance here-just getting into this. Every bike I’ve done so far, I started from the rough, and documented each stage of disassembling with photos, making it easy to reassemble, invaluable in my previous restorations of classic cars and motorcycles. Cheers.


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## razinhellcustomz (Oct 31, 2021)

Krakatoa said:


> Skirtguard spring anchors



On a guys bike... That's FUNNY!!!


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