# Weird X on Wasp?



## mrg (May 3, 2020)

I was getting this 59 wasp ready for the for sale section and noticed this X stamped between the kickstand & BB, looks og, I never noticed any stamping like this anybody?


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## Jeff54 (May 4, 2020)

mrg said:


> I was getting this 59 wasp ready for the for sale section and noticed this X stamped between the kickstand & BB, looks og, I never noticed any stamping like this anybody?View attachment 1186991
> View attachment 1186992
> 
> View attachment 1186993



Take a closer looks at that X. From here the punched X does not appear painted rather, bare metal shining  through thin  rust. Prob somebody's personal owner I.D. mark from, IDK depending where stored, , like, 10-20 plus year ago..

59 Wasp? That's berry intrestink. The color looks like it might have been Red, but I've only seen Opal red  do that whereas in 59 it's changed too radiant red. Don't think radiant red has the defective ultra violet resistance which seems to have been fixed, for the most part, by then. Wonder if your serial number is one of the tricky set and it's  earlier than it appears.


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## Danny the schwinn freak (May 4, 2020)

Here is my two cents. The stamping is way too deep and even to be done by someone after the fact. That looks to have been done in the tubing prior to it being welded to the bb shell. You’d never get a stamp in there between the stays and get such a nice, deep. even stamp. What it looks like is the candy red is gone  on the “X” and what you are seeing is the gold base color coming through. Interesting marking for sure. Somebody here knows more and will chime in soon, I’m sure!!


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## mrg (May 4, 2020)

I don't know about paint but there is no way to get a straight shot at stamping in that location and it does look to very even and kinda flattened the metal, almost machine stamped?, anyone have a angled stamp!


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## GTs58 (May 5, 2020)

Is there an X on the other stay, or maybe a different marking? You have to remember that during this time they were building a Sheet load of middleweights and at the same time they were building only two, just (2) balloon models, the Wasp and Phantom. Since the Balloon chain stays were bent different than a middleweight, I'm betting that X is there to keep the stock boy from loading up the welders parts box with the wrong stay for a middleweight.


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## Xlobsterman (May 5, 2020)

mrg said:


> I was getting this 59 wasp ready for the for sale section and noticed this X stamped between the kickstand & BB, looks og, I never noticed any stamping like this anybody?View attachment 1186991




Maybe it was owned by Billy Idol at one time?


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## bricycle (May 5, 2020)

Love it when people really scrutinize their stuff and find neat things like this.


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## rustjunkie (May 5, 2020)

so the X is only on one stay?


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## ricobike (May 6, 2020)

Well, I'll be damned.  I have a few Wasps here and one of them happens to be a 59.  Serial K966957 - 10/20/1959.  And looky what's on the left rear chainstay on it.  I never noticed it.





I checked my earlier models (2 from 1957) and they didn't have the X there.  I also have a Red HD Wasp, serial B222448 - 02/08/1962 and it has the X there also.  I'm inclined to go with @GTs58 theory.  Seems like it could be a way to keep the ballooner frames apart from the middleweight frames since there were few during that time.

Edit:  I just noticed an interesting difference between @mrg bike and my bikes, his is on the right chainstay and both of mine are on the left.

Edit #2:  OK, I checked again and they are on both the left and right chainstays on both of my bikes.  I just missed the one on the 59, and the 62 is super rusty so it was hard to see it.


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## bricycle (May 6, 2020)

*X* marks the spot where the stinger goes!!


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## cyclonecoaster.com (May 6, 2020)

*Well everyone should inform @fordmike65 that Schwinn is now officially a "brand X" bicycle .. the stamp is the proof Mike ... hmmmmmm *


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## Jeff54 (May 6, 2020)

ricobike said:


> Well, I'll be damned.  I have a few Wasps here and one of them happens to be a 59.  Serial K966957 - 10/20/1959.  And looky what's on the left rear chainstay on it.  I never noticed it.
> 
> View attachment 1188379
> 
> ...



Sounds like U solved it. Well, I mean: what the X is there fore.  Heavy duty stamp _is probably , more than likely, _the X that  marks : E*X*tra-Duty frame.

Edited: I wonder now, if later, when Schwinn said middle weights from 1965 through 1983-ish,  had special heavy-duty frames, they gots the X too?


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## Jeff54 (May 6, 2020)

This only took a few minutes. asking the question; Where does Schwinn use the word "Extra" that is likely  what that or those X's represent?

1960 catalog: "Extra built-in Strength"


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## mrg (May 6, 2020)

We learn something new everyday here on the Cabe, I don't know if they were really different HD frames or they were the only heavyweight ( S2 ) frames by then and differentiated them from the middleweights?. Just looked at the last yr Phantom, 59 catalog and the frame part # 1921, is the same for both it and the Wasp!, check your 59 Phantoms for a X!


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## GTs58 (May 7, 2020)

There were two Wasp options in 1964, the standard Wasp and the HD Wasp. Both have the same frame spec 1921. The x has nothing to do with Extra heavy duty. Check them 59 Phantoms!


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## KingSized HD (May 7, 2020)

My Wasp got all skittish that I was gettin “all up in its bizness” but there it was; an “X” brand on the inside of its left chainstay. 





I’ll have to check the right chainstay.


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## mrg (May 7, 2020)

Well decided to do a quick lube before putting in the for sale section and noticed this, a solid plug in the seat tube/bottom bracket, I looked at a few frames in the scrap pile and some had slag or left over material but nothing as solid as this, don’t know if it’s me but is the crank more offset than usual, now I'd really like to see inside a 59 Phantom BB, mine does also a X on both sides.


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## GTs58 (May 7, 2020)

That plug is weird, I've never seen something like that on any of my Schweens.


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## razinhellcustomz (May 9, 2020)

mrg said:


> I was getting this 59 wasp ready for the for sale section and noticed this X stamped between the kickstand & BB, looks og, I never noticed any stamping like this anybody?View attachment 1186991
> View attachment 1186992
> 
> View attachment 1186993



Nice old Schwinn. So how much for the X bike? Razin.


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## razinhellcustomz (May 9, 2020)

bricycle said:


> Love it when people really scrutinize their stuff and find neat things like this.



Yeah, like build sheets stuck down the seat post tube or dirty socks and rags stuck in the bottom crank bracket. Good stuff Maynard! Razin.


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## KingSized HD (May 9, 2020)

razinhellcustomz said:


> Nice old Schwinn. So how much for the X bike? Razin.











						Sold - 59 Wasp | Archive (sold)
					

59 Wasp, HD frame, good rider everything greased all tho New Departure could use a cleaning/rebuild, S2's are straight, chrome a little better on front, springer works good, HD late Phantom/Cycletruck seat repaired a little in front, $450. local pickup or meet around LB/OC area. message if...




					thecabe.com


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## iceman (May 9, 2020)

Dose the X let the welder know it is the left side?


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## razinhellcustomz (May 9, 2020)

iceman said:


> Dose the X let the welder know it is the left side?



Yeah! That's it. That would explain it
 Razin.


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## GTs58 (May 9, 2020)

iceman said:


> Dose the X let the welder know it is the left side?




Read Marks last sentence in post #17. He said the X is on both sides. So to me the X would designate a balloon chain stay. You can see the two indents from the stamping in one of his pictures.


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## mrg (May 9, 2020)

Jeff54 said:


> This only took a few minutes. asking the question; Where does Schwinn use the word "Extra" that is likely  what that or those X's represent?
> 
> 1960 catalog: "Extra built-in Strength"
> 
> View attachment 1188617




So is the plug part of the eXtra built in strength? and what the X stands for?


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## Jeff54 (May 9, 2020)

IDK Bout the plug and X for Extra is my best guess or seems most likely.


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## ricobike (May 11, 2020)

OK, I just checked the rest of of my later model Wasps and they all have the X's on both stays.  All are Heavy Duty Wasps (do I have too many?).  The red is the 1962, the 2 blacks are 1963 and 1964.   So it looks like the X's stayed until the end of the ballooners run.  Would be interesting to know when they started with this.


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## GTs58 (May 11, 2020)

ricobike said:


> OK, I just checked the rest of of my later model Wasps and they all have the X's on both stays.  All are Heavy Duty Wasps (do I have too many?).  The red is the 1962, the 2 blacks are 1963 and 1964.   So it looks like the X's stayed until the end of the ballooners run.  Would be interesting to know when they started with this.
> 
> View attachment 1191963




I'll take a guess and say they started at the beginning of the 55 model production. And I still say the X was for identification of a balloon chain stay.


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## ricobike (May 11, 2020)

GTs58 said:


> I'll take a guess and say they started at the beginning of the 55 model production. And I still say the X was for identification of a balloon chain stay.




As I said above, I checked 2 57 model Wasps that I have and the X's weren't on either bike.  So the question is did it start in 58?   The only balloon tire models available in 58 aside from the Cycle Truck were also the Wasp and the Phantom so it's plausible, but did they start later?  I did check my 58 Cycle Truck and it didn't have it but it could be that this was confined to the cantilever models.  I don't have a 58 Wasp or Phantom to check unfortunately.  Guess I need to get shopping after this virus thing is over .


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## Rusty Klunker (May 12, 2020)

I have a 62 Wasp, 65 Cycle truck and a 67 Cycle truck. All three have the wider/ballooner seat stays and all three have an X stamped on both chain stays. Good to know about the frames being the same for the wasps. I got it as just a frame so I have no idea which it was.


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## Rusty Klunker (May 12, 2020)

mrg said:


> Well decided to do a quick lube before putting in the for sale section and noticed this, a solid plug in the seat tube/bottom bracket, I looked at a few frames in the scrap pile and some had slag or left over material but nothing as solid as this, don’t know if it’s me but is the crank more offset than usual, now I'd really like to see inside a 59 Phantom BB, mine does also a X on both sides.View attachment 1189400
> View attachment 1189401





Its just slag. My 62 Wasp looked like that but I popped it out with 3/8 all thread. The seat post was pushed in and stuck, really had no way to get a hold of it. I had made a tool to remove it. Had to open up the hole in the top of the post to accept a 3/8 rod. Dropped it in popped the slag out then put a nut on the bottom. Piece of 3/4 EMT on top, heavy washer and another nut. The bottom nut jams in the post at the tapper, just crank down on the top nut and it walks it right out.


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## ricobike (May 12, 2020)

Rusty Klunker said:


> I have a 62 Wasp, 65 Cycle truck and a 67 Cycle truck. All three have the wider/ballooner seat stays and all three have an X stamped on both chain stays. Good to know about the frames being the same for the wasps. I got it as just a frame so I have no idea which it was.




Awesome.  So it does seem to be any balloon tired bikes after 1958 had this.  My Cycle Truck serial is dated to March 1958 so it had to have started after that which does make some sense.  If they noticed a problem with getting middleweight and balloon parts mixed up, it might take them some time to come up with a solution.


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## mrg (May 12, 2020)

X's on cycle trucks too, huh and my BB has a solid plug not slag, it's way thicker than any of I've had over the past 55 years, I didn't look at all ( 100++ ) but worked on alot and never seen anything like that, didn't have many Wasps or Cycle trucks tho!


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## Rusty Klunker (May 15, 2020)

My Wasp. It had a solid plug like that, it came right out with no effort. Not that I wanted to take it out, just thought it was slag and looked like the easiest way to get the post out.


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## mrg (Jun 11, 2020)

Well I don't think it's a coincidence, just servicing another one of my 59 Wasp's and another solid plug a lot more solid than slag and different than all others that I had the crank out over my 55 yrs of Schwinn ownership!, Oh also has the X!


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## GTs58 (Jun 11, 2020)

mrg said:


> Well I don't think it's a coincidence, just servicing another one of my 59 Wasp's and another solid plug a lot more solid than slag and different than all others that I had the crank out over my 55 yrs of Schwinn ownership!, Oh also has the X!View attachment 1209094
> View attachment 1209095
> View attachment 1209097
> 
> ...





I have a slug like that in my 53 Phantom. Small 1/8" hole in the middle. They say you lose about an eighth inch of tubing when EF.

Nice looking Wasp!


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## Oilit (Jun 11, 2020)

mrg said:


> Well I don't think it's a coincidence, just servicing another one of my 59 Wasp's and another solid plug a lot more solid than slag and different than all others that I had the crank out over my 55 yrs of Schwinn ownership!, Oh also has the X!View attachment 1209094
> View attachment 1209095
> View attachment 1209097
> 
> ...



If you've ever worked in a machine shop, a lot of the industrial bandsaws have blade welding attachments. You clamp the two ends in alignment and ram them together while running current through them, which is exactly what "electroforging" sounds like to me. The result is blobs of melted steel on both sides of the blade that have to be ground down smooth before the blade will run through the guides. On their frames, Schwinn cleaned up the outside, but they didn't see any need to clean up the inside. I'm guessing it's as simple as that.


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## Jeff54 (Jun 11, 2020)

Oilit said:


> If you've ever worked in a machine shop, a lot of the industrial bandsaws have blade welding attachments. You clamp the two ends in alignment and ram them together while running current through them, which is exactly what "electroforging" sounds like to me. The result is blobs of melted steel on both sides of the blade that have to be ground down smooth before the blade will run through the guides. On their frames, Schwinn cleaned up the outside, but they didn't see any need to clean up the inside. I'm guessing it's as simple as that.



I'd go with that and add, while prob illregular to find with plug, that rotted hole illustrates why it should not be there. IDK why as it's been near a life time since I rebuilt or restored old Schwinn, but I have seen this before and it would not have been a wasp, to be sure. Regaurdless, I think too they are due to a poor inspection, inspector, quality process. B/C otherwise, it retains water, moisture that defies original internal phosphate rust inhibitor when having been not knocked out prior to coating.

Where, when or which type did I see this before? IDK but, it would have had to be either a pre-63 20" balloon frame modified into a sting-ray or a ten speed B/C back in the day, I couldn't be bothered with a big Ol ugly wasp (Pre and Post Sting-ray era) or 24-26 middle weight. IDK maybe of the first Junkers Pre-Sting-ray era,  I worked on but, think it's not limited to X marked Wasp or heavy ballooners.


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## Awhipple (Jun 13, 2020)

No X on my 56.


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## mrg (Jun 14, 2020)

Seems like it didn't start till 58 or 9, anyone have a 58?


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## mrg (Jun 22, 2020)

More mystery, @ControlFreak1970 posted a 69 Krate with H's in the same location?, Huuu?


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