# has anyone seen a majestic head badge used this late



## kos22us (Aug 8, 2018)

of course i am aware of all the different head badges used on schwinn up to the early 50's but has anyone ever seen this particular majestic head badge being used this late, generally around this time period its either schwinn or bf goodrich,   any thoughts or input ???


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## cyclingday (Aug 8, 2018)

Nice!


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## Jeff54 (Aug 9, 2018)

kos22us said:


> of course i am aware of all the different head badges used on schwinn up to the early 50's but has anyone ever seen this particular majestic head badge being used this late, generally around this time period its either schwinn or bf goodrich,   any thoughts or input ???





Looks like ya got a 59 Phantom, but nope. Plus, I've never even seen that badge too.


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## barneyguey (Aug 9, 2018)

I've looked at hundreds (maybe thousands) of badges, but this first time I've seen that one. Pretty cool man! Barry


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## bobcycles (Aug 9, 2018)

That badge is a first for me and I've seen many


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## GTs58 (Aug 9, 2018)

That has to be a custom made piece by that Cabe member in Puerto Rico?.. If it was a real Schwinn badge stamped Majestic, I think it would've been done earlier in brass. Not many other non Schwinn stamped aluminum badges that I know of were used other than Goodrich and Spitfire.


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## barneyguey (Aug 9, 2018)

GTs58 said:


> That has to be a custom made piece by that Cabe member in Puerto Rico?.. If it was a real Schwinn badge stamped Majestic, I think it would've been done earlier in brass. Not many other non Schwinn stamped aluminum badges that I know of were used other than Goodrich and Spitfire.



You stumped me for a minute, I remember seeing a few badges used up into the sixties on Schwinn bikes. I can't find any of them other than this one, Ive seen them on 1960's Corvettes. I'll keep looking through my photos and see what I can find. Barry


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## barneyguey (Aug 9, 2018)




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## GTs58 (Aug 9, 2018)

barnyguey said:


> You stumped me for a minute, I remember seeing a few badges used up into the sixties on Schwinn bikes. I can't find any of them other than this one, Ive seen them on 1960's Corvettes. I'll keep looking through my photos and see what I can find. Barry




Hacks and the others during this time had their badges made and they were not installed by Schwinn, nor do they have Schwinn, Schwinn Built or AS & Co Chicago Illinois on them. The old Cadillac, Excelsior, Admiral badges among others were made and installed by Schwinn and were brass right? 

What I'm getting at is badges like this were made and installed by Schwinn, not by a department or hardware stores that had nothing on their badges related to Schwinn.


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## Freqman1 (Aug 10, 2018)

I don't know the OPs badge sure looks like an original badge to me. Its embossed in the font I would expect to see from a period Schwinn product and does not look like a custom piece to me. V/r Shawn


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## barneyguey (Aug 10, 2018)

GTs58 said:


> Hacks and the others during this time had their badges made and they were not installed by Schwinn, nor do they have Schwinn, Schwinn Built or AS & Co Chicago Illinois on them. The old Cadillac, Excelsior, Admiral badges among others were made and installed by Schwinn and were brass right?
> 
> What I'm getting at is badges like this were made and installed by Schwinn, not by a department or hardware stores that had nothing on their badges related to Schwinn.



I see, you have a great day. Barry

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk


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## Jeff54 (Aug 10, 2018)

I'm voting that; if it's stamped out then, it's _probably_ real.

No doubt, that badge is an anomaly. The bike it's on does appear to be original paint, reversed colors for a 59 Phantom 'Red Phantom' too, 'Flamboyant red' .
The   process to create it wouldn't be a walk in the park either. Add in the paint stamp for the white, this trick to fashion some type of fake would be very complicated. Fare more difficult than the typical acid etched copies.

If it is a fake, especially if stamped out etc. then It ought to have been seen before . I mean, it's not like it would be too valuable, not like the current fakes of old badges. Perhaps an one of, only known to exist but, as a modern badge, I wouldn't expect that rare equates to big money too. Not a lot of motivation for a imitation, 'Fantasy badge' given the difficulties to make.

Hesitant to help guide somebody to make one but, Here's a DIY blog explaining the difficulties: https://www.instructables.com/i.d./DIY-Metal-Stamping/

..


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## kos22us (Aug 10, 2018)

i purchased the bicycle from the original owner family not a collector, and its not a 59' phantom


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## kos22us (Aug 25, 2018)

the serial # on this red phantom dates to 55' and 57'

this red color was available in 55 & 57 so that doesn't help, the catalogs show the springer bolt going through forks in i think 56' but i have seen plenty of 55's w/ the bolt through the fork, i know i've seen at least 3x 55' deluxe hornet frames going through the fork so im not sure thats is a lot of help

the AS style seat post clamp and the clover chain ring would tell 57'   but the majestic badge makes me think 55'


thoughts ?   opinions ?


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## GTs58 (Aug 25, 2018)

Beautiful paint on that Phantom. Having that dual dated SN sucks in this case. 1955 was the first year for the bolt thru the fork, but a 55 with a locking fork  had the previous style set up. What makes me think the badge is a custom is the word Illinois and spelled out on the badge. I personally have never seen the word Illinois on a Schwinn badge, just Chicago or Chicago USA.


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## Jeff54 (Aug 26, 2018)

That badge looks pretty real to me. The condition, aged color of paint and grime at bottom looks right. Yet, the paint on frame is remarkable, superior preservation, just a few scratches on frame and chain guard  in the  usual spots.  Looks like it might have been used for 1 year and put away, good dry storage  after. . And in comparison, ya gotta ask why the badge  is scratched so? I count about 10 pin-pricks in paint  2 scratched spots on outer rim and possible tiny nicks in the raised  lettering. .  what and how'd those scratches by whatever, get past the springer and rods. Riding behind trucks tossing sand rocks and pebbles out all the time? Did it come with goggles for that? [grin]  That's, comparatively, a lot of nicks for the overall condition of bike. Also the screws, it appears to have  been removed by somebody who wasn't careful enough and slipped the screwdriver which marked the slots a little. Maybe too why those scratches, tiny marks  on outer rim at 6 O'clock, below the  bottom screw, Screwdriver wasn't held straight, aligned with slot can cause a little slip, get a bit of striping on inside edge of the head,  potentially scratch the badge like that. . . . Or is it just dirt that's making it appear to have a bit of marring? Otherwise, if there is some slight stripping on screw-head/heads, WHY?

agreed too, 1955 was the 'New' spring fork introduction. It's noted in parts lists and diagrams as "New" something or other. 54-7 would be Opal red too. Yet I don't recall seeing a 55 in that color. Mine's, 55 but not Opal. Yet perhaps that's why the odd badge too, it's Opal!

Might not be much help but, what are the serial numbers? There's been a time or two I've managed to discover slight difference in this time frame ( 50's) where the numbers appear to duplicate but didn't, like a skip in numbers that's not so apparent or somtin, . Can't recall which years that was but, maybe its yours too.



kos22us said:


> the serial # on this red phantom dates to 55' and 57'
> 
> this red color was available in 55 & 57 so that doesn't help, the catalogs show the springer bolt going through forks in i think 56' but i have seen plenty of 55's w/ the bolt through the fork, i know i've seen at least 3x 55' deluxe hornet frames going through the fork so im not sure thats is a lot of help
> 
> ...


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## kos22us (Aug 26, 2018)

although the paint is very nice it does have more scratches & nicks than what the pictures provided show (see pic below), the bicycle was dirty & grimy when i received it and i went over the paint very well & thoroughly to get the paint to pop but yes it has plenty of wear through out, my thoughts on the badge is this ... everything on the bicycle was original including paint so i just have no reason to doubt the badge, the serial # is  S37316             how many different red's did they use on phantoms ?


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## Jeff54 (Aug 27, 2018)

Yeah, it's doubled alright yet, I must have mistakenly scrolled up when citing Opalescent red, plus, I'd thought sure I'd copied Flamboyant red in 1959 earlier off the catalog too, but nope both are in error. So, my credibility in this topic is sucking. [grin]

However, Your question of 'how may different reds' got me thinking, 'Where there 3?' And which year in the catalogs are each color cited?" There's only 2 different reds, the earliest, although it's possible the phantom red color could have differences in blends that appear a little orange-ish,  and finally; the latest 1959's Radiant Red.  According to the catalogs is the only year Radiant red was on a Phantom. Which, incidentally, is why I'd first thought yours was a 1959 because the red on your bike is not the old standby it's like Opal, Flamboyant or Radiant. Schwinn called that a 4 coat process; metal coating, red lead primer, a silver or aluminum and finally transparent red, green or blue, etc. I can only guess that, the differences between Opal , flamboyant and radiant  is the tint in the final coat.

That could only mean, your bike is a 1958.  That is, your serial numbers, given the 'Radiant' paint would be November 26 and 27: 1957:

11/13 ------------------ S30503 -------------------- S37123
11/14 ------------------ 7E82769 ----------------- 7E86306
11/19 to 11/25 ------- 7E86307 ----------------- 7E99655
11/26 to 11/27 ------- S37124 -------------------- S40029

Most likely, that frame was stamped on Nov. 26, 57 and delivered to bike shops early 58. I.E. if there is a 1958 catalog then, we'd know it's not a 1 year only color but 2: 58 and 9.

And your badge, a very special one for the 1st appearance of a Phantom's special or newest color? Maybe, likely, given its rarity;  probably.


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