# ND "D" that won't stop pedaling....



## jd56 (Jul 2, 2015)

*ND &amp;quot;D&amp;quot; that won't stop pedaling....*

Not sure what could be the problem with this rear wheel rebuild. It's a first for me.
Here's the issue....the rear wheel does not coast without the pedals (crank) still rotating. 
I stop pedaling and the crank continues to pedal. Thevrear sprocket will not disengage. Therefore still engages the chain resulting in the crank to rotate without pedal power.
Try rolling the bike backwards and the rear wheel locks up.
Some difficulty braking too but, it does brake with rear pedal added pressure.
I did replace the brake internal spring during the rebuild. I did not change out another internal parts including the discs Perhaps the replaced spring is the problem. 
Seeing that is what engages the brake dics.
But, why do you think the rear cog won't disengage? 
Your thoughts and possible resolution is welcomed.

It's all about the Tanklights!!

How did I run out of room so fast?


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## Ozark Flyer (Jul 2, 2015)

JD it sounds like the clutch part that floats on the driver is stuck in the hub shell.  When you roll backwards it is engaging the brake as if you had pedaled backwards.  It sounds like you will have to take the hub apart to knock the little splined clutch out of the hub shell.  You will probably have to replace the hub shell and/or clutch.


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## jd56 (Jul 3, 2015)

Thanks....looks like I'll have to get in there and take another look.
Maybe this hub had too many discs. And I just need to remove a couple.
I'd hate to have to replace the hub and respoke. I just painted those rims. Oh well, sometimes it's a simple fix and then there are those that need a but more.
Thanks for the responses.

It's all about the Tanklights!!

How did I run out of room so fast?


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## Wheeled Relics (Jul 3, 2015)

There should be 22 discs if there is too many the transfer spring will strip, not enough tho and it might stay engaged? either or i would double check the area of the transfer spring where the teeth engage.


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## frankster41 (Jul 3, 2015)

I have had bad transfer springs cause the ghost pedaling.


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## bricycle (Jul 3, 2015)

If it innards (discs/washers) are not all fully seated, I think it will do this as well. Is dust cover partly covering the hub? If not, might not be fully together.


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## Boris (Jul 3, 2015)

This diagram shows 23 discs per set.


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## bricycle (Jul 3, 2015)

Dave Marko said:


> This diagram shows 23 discs per set.
> 
> View attachment 223385




..why is part #5 getting "the finger"???


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## bikeyard (Jul 3, 2015)

Dave Marko said:


> This diagram shows 23 discs per set.
> 
> View attachment 223385




I've found the number of discs to vary.  The early ones seemed to have more while the later seem to have less but they are thicker.


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## bricycle (Jul 3, 2015)

bikeyard said:


> I've found the number of discs to vary.  The early ones seemed to have more while the later seem to have less but they are thicker.




believe it is the other way around, as "C" hubs had less, thicker discs, but maybe they went back to them..?


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## abe lugo (Jul 3, 2015)

there are many "how to's" on these hubs, this probably the best and most common coaster hub.
the stack disc number doesnt matter as much as long as the height is correct, it actually some where around .70 if you measure it, also note that it should be alternating between rings and teeth.

One thing that this does sound like, is that while you did change the spring, but it may have not seated in the slot correctly and either bent out or broke, yes it happens.

Another thing is that the clutch part that goes back and forth engaging on the corkscrew may be sticking, your not supposed to add grease this, the grease goes on the bearing only, when you done, you oil the center and spin the wheel.

The first thing to check is the cone nuts while the wheel is on, you need the thin spanner wrench.

what is happening is that your bike is Ghost pedaling.


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## SirMike1983 (Jul 3, 2015)

Well put- the clutch and retarder spring are worth checking, as are the cones. I've had a couple old Model D hubs come in with this problem and both times it came from a distorted or damaged retarder spring. 



abe lugo said:


> there are many "how to's" on these hubs, this probably the best and most common coaster hub.
> the stack disc number doesnt matter as much as long as the height is correct, it actually some where around .70 if you measure it, also note that it should be alternating between rings and teeth.
> 
> One thing that this does sound like, is that while you did change the spring, but it may have not seated in the slot correctly and either bent out or broke, yes it happens.
> ...


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## abe lugo (Jul 3, 2015)

awesome- I had to go through a ND Hub today, the PO used a white grease and it was all stiff and hardened. I was getting the no engagement forward once in a while.
One thing to make sure is that all the discs engage in and that side of the hub locks in all the way when assembling the wheel.


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## old hotrod (Jul 3, 2015)

Part #3 on the diagram has grooves in it to cut down surface tension and to hold a small amount of grease or oil to prevent it from sticking. These grooves wear out and will cause the cone to stick in the hub. This cone wear also causes a long back pedal to stop and hard stopping as does disc wear. I assume that the hub can also wear out in this contact area but I have never had one so worn it wouldn't work fine and I have been through a couple of dozen...check the clip and the cone, I recommend replacing the cone with new only regardless. And I coat all parts with a thin coat of bike grease and motor oil, when the parts are in good shape (or new) grease will not adversely affect braking...the very high clamping forces overcome any grease applied...


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## jd56 (Jul 18, 2015)

I appreciate all the feed back guys. "Ghost pedaling" is a term I've never heard before and describes the issue well.
The transfer spring is a new replacement.  However, the toothed cone is not. My guess, given all the possibilities is this cone is worn out.
I'll post the result once it has been replaced.

Oh....and the brake disc stack height is correct. Thinking there was 21 dics overall. They are used ones and have some grooving but, I have used worse condition ones and it still braked well.
Again thanks for the responses everyone. 

It's all about the Tanklights!!

How did I run out of room so fast?


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## jd56 (Jul 27, 2015)

Took apart the hub yesterday and replaced the innerds. Still ghost pedaling.  Only the hub to replace if the rim is to be used, I assume. 
So I switched out the wheel with another. Pl This one pedals and coasts properly now.

Weird and frustrating to figure out what the issue is. So I gave in.

Thanks for all the suggestions. 

It's all about the Tanklights!!

How did I run out of room so fast?


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## THE STIG (Jul 27, 2015)

Did "you" go through the one on it now ?


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## jd56 (Jul 27, 2015)

THE STIG said:


> Did "you" go through the one on it now ?



Went through both.  And have  serviced both. No differences that I could see. Except the original one still ghost pedals. 
Both have decent innerds and the stack of brake discs measure correctly an same number (21 discs).
Fortunately I had a spare matching dropcenter to paint to match.


It's all about the Tanklights!!

How did I run out of room so fast?


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## THE STIG (Jul 27, 2015)

Check transfer spring (tang @ 90°)


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## jd56 (Jul 27, 2015)

THE STIG said:


> Check transfer spring (tang @ 90°)



I replaced it twice and both are new. And so have the needed 90° bend. Also replace the transfer spring cog and drive. The original had obvious were on the outside grooves. I figured that was the problem so that too was replaced with a new replacement with sharp teeth. 
Hub looked fine with no rough edges or grooving.
Baffles me what's wrong.
Thanks for the input Stig and everyone else that replied.


It's all about the Tanklights!!

How did I run out of room so fast?


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