# Unknown Fresh Find , what year & model ?



## OZ1972 (May 20, 2021)

If anyone could please help me out , not sure what the year , make & model , value ? , the bike was found in a barn in northern Indiana , thanks so much !!!!!


----------



## Archie Sturmer (May 20, 2021)

Might be a Miami Ohio built bicycle.
The first feature I notice is the fairly narrow truss tube.  We also see the lugged head tube, hairpin truss rods, and what appears to be a fairly stout bridge in between the seat stays.  Also a Miami rack.
I don’t recognize the drop stand bracket wired to the rear rack or luggage carrier?

Might be Merkel orange paint underneath all that aluminum silver; (same number of holes)?








						Anyone here own a Miami / Flying Merkel Bicycle? | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

The FLYING MERKEL Thread.  I love the Flying Merkel bicycles and motorcycles alike.  Post your Pictures and knowledge here.  Thanks, Tyler




					thecabe.com


----------



## Freqman1 (May 20, 2021)

Yep that looks like a winner! I’m going with about a ‘15ish Flying Merkel motorbike. Inbox should fill up fairly quickly! @OZ1972 can you post a pic of the serial? V/r Shawn


----------



## szathmarig (May 21, 2021)

No head badge screw holes either, another Flying Merkel feature.


----------



## Freqman1 (May 21, 2021)

@hoofhearted @New Mexico Brant @Goldenindian


----------



## bentwoody66 (May 21, 2021)

Hey Oz, call me.


----------



## Freqman1 (May 21, 2021)

The Flying Merkel Bicycle: An Evolving Study
					






					thecabe.com


----------



## SKPC (May 21, 2021)

That's what I'm talkin about!  Seat has been replaced but who could possibly care?   Wonderful.  Great luck, good for you, don't sell it.


----------



## Freqman1 (May 21, 2021)

SKPC said:


> That's what I'm talkin about!  Seat has been replaced but who could possibly care?   Wonderful.  Great luck, good for you, don't sell it.



You can always run a five day auction like what happened with the last nice find that showed up!


----------



## tacochris (May 21, 2021)

Man....if that IS what folk say it is, I would keep it and rock the hell out of it!  Its not going to get any less rare so building it up, trying to refresh what original paint is left and making it a rider can only help!
Congrats!


----------



## hoofhearted (May 21, 2021)




----------



## Freqman1 (May 21, 2021)




----------



## SKPC (May 21, 2021)

If this is in fact a 1912-17 *Flying Merkel* (no badge holes), it would be great to see more details of the frames' construction, which will add to the wide-ranging database for Miami frames.   Also, a person well-versed in paint recovery, if you choose to keep the bike, could possibly find decal transfers on the frame tubes? Apparently, the sprocket seems to not be FM specific and suggests being replaced along with the crankset.  Be sure to go through the linked Miami read that @Freqman1 posted on page 1. ..
*This *below from that thread regarding the "other" stuff...
_ *Components*
The following sections cover the components used by Miami to manufacture the Flying Merkel. Unlike many manufacturers or ‘jobbers’ of the day Miami actually manufactured many of their components in-house. They did source fenders, chains, grips, pedals and saddles. These parts were sourced from the major manufacturers such as Persons and Troxel for saddles, Ideal, Rex, Acme, Star, and others for pedals, Keystone and others for grips, Diamond for chains, and initially D&J for the crank hangers. Fenders were likely made by International Stamping of Chicago, IL. They initially bought their handle bars ‘in the rough’ and finished them but starting in 1915 Miami manufactured their own bars from start to finish. Also starting about 1915 they began making their own crank hangers although some were made under the D&J patents._


----------



## Freqman1 (May 21, 2021)

Yeah I'd like to see the bottom bracket/serial number, what hub it has on the rear (Musselman Armless?). The chain ring kinda throws me and I would like to see a better pic of the drop outs and sprocket--from the pic doesn't look typical Miami. All that said I wouldn't say its impossible for all that to have originated on the bike because it doesn't look like it was messed with but who can  say what happened over the last 100+ years. The surviving population of original bikes is so small its hard to draw accurate conclusions in many cases. This is why I titled the monograph the way did...an evolving study. V/r Shawn


----------



## cyclingday (May 21, 2021)

SKPC said:


> If this is in fact a 1912-17 *Flying Merkel* (no badge holes),  a person well-versed in paint recovery, if you choose to keep the bike, could possibly find decal transfers on the frame tubes?



If you decide to go this route, talk to Brant about paint removal/recovery.
He described a method, where the paint strippers are specially formulated to only attack the chemical make up of the over paint, and not the underlying layer.
The work is in small increments and tedious, but may be well worth it, with a specimen like this.
If original paint and graphics could be recovered on this, it would be fantastic.
Indiana Flying Merkel barn find.
Oh, yeah!
How cool is that?


----------



## tacochris (May 21, 2021)

cyclingday said:


> If you decide to go this route, talk to Brant about paint removal/recovery.
> He described a method, where the paint strippers are specially formulated to only attack the chemical make up of the over paint, and not the underlying layer.
> The work is in small increments and tedious, but may be well worth it, with a specimen like this.
> If original paint and graphics could be recovered on this, it would be fantastic.
> ...



Ive done this on 3 old vws and at least a handful of bikes and its a ton of work, but a very rewarding job, especially considering the worth of this bike alone


----------



## Junkman Bob (May 21, 2021)

Very cool find .... You will enjoy this rush for a long time .... Great bike to keep and share the story on how you acquired and show your progress  on it !! 

Great job and enjoy

Bob


----------



## bentwoody66 (May 21, 2021)

hoofhearted said:


> View attachment 1415787
> 
> View attachment 1415788
> 
> View attachment 1415789



Does this bike have the center drive crank hanger?


----------



## OZ1972 (May 21, 2021)

I really appreciate all of your help on this find , i had no idea what it was , the bike was found by a friend of mine at a tractor show on Monday in Portland , Indiana , it is all beginning to make sense because i learned today that the gentleman who sold the bike to my friend is from Middletown , ohio which is where miami / merkl was made i have learned , the seller found it years ago in Middletown , ohio and  moved to a storage barn in Portland , Indiana recently to bring to the tractor show , thanks again i have never owned anything this old or cool before !


----------



## OZ1972 (May 21, 2021)

More pictures


----------



## cyclingday (May 21, 2021)

You know what!
That Merkel Orange is beautiful just the way it is.
I would do anything to the finish on that bike.
It’s magnificent!
I love the faint telltale traces of what it once was.
Dude!
You just scored a Flying Merkel!
Fan-Fricken-Tastic!


----------



## SKPC (May 21, 2021)

A couple of questions for those in the know and the OP.....how long is the seat tube? There seems to be some conflicting information on the link to Flying Merkels, but maybe I am missing something...  See below from Shawns' _Flying Merkel Evolution Link_ on page 1.

_1917 was the first year of the Motorbike. Documented evidence clearly states the *Flying Merkel Motorbike* was offered as a 20” frame only – no optional size, this was up to 1918. Supposedly no 1919 Motorbikes were made due to wartime restrictions. Between 1920-1923 the FM Motorbike was offered only in a 19” model. The frame tubing was the standard 1” except the lower bar (under the top tube) is 11/16”. The literature says this is ¾” but was likely rounded up._
This should help determine the year this particular motorbike machine was built, would it not?  If FM's are vetted by the missing badge holes, and this example truly is missing them, then you would assume this example is a 1917 model motorbike and the frame will be 20".  Please measure!   Hmmm, maybe we should confirm?

     And this photo provided by @redline1968 and gussied up by Patrick @hoofhearted from the FM link suggests (or not?) that the Hercules lugs only began in 1921.  Perhaps these lugs were used also in 1917 but not advertised til 21? Truth or dare?





And what about that crank and sprocket?  Perhaps another missing link to a Miami component not seen before or was it changed out?
And lasty, see the orange paint on the chain in the 1st set of pics...Hmmmm.


----------



## OZ1972 (May 21, 2021)

More pictures


----------



## OZ1972 (May 21, 2021)

Looks to have a extra hole in the seat tube


----------



## OZ1972 (May 21, 2021)

20 1/8 " from the top of the seat tube to the center of the bottom bracket


----------



## OZ1972 (May 21, 2021)

Goof off reveling original orange paint


----------



## OZ1972 (May 21, 2021)

More pics


----------



## Freqman1 (May 21, 2021)

OZ1972 said:


> Looks to have a extra hole in the seat tube



That extra is not factory--someone drilled it. Be interesting to see if there is any trace of a headtube or downtube decal. V/r Shawn


----------



## OZ1972 (May 21, 2021)

Goof off is working taking off the silver paint  !!!!!!


----------



## Archie Sturmer (May 21, 2021)

Coaster brake kind of looks like a New Departure Model-A, without an arm; or is it an armless Musselman?

Does the serial number look to be in the six digits format; 166,220.


----------



## redline1968 (May 22, 2021)

you kind of have your information mixed up. Around 1921 was the last year of the Hercules tube after that they made it internally built. And phased out the decal also started to do two color paint schemes. ...they did use merkel badges with vertical holes in them after the westfield company bought merkel out..  in this transition they used standard badges then changed to bottle caps... orange was not exclusive to merkel used miami on the other named  miami brands .



SKPC said:


> A couple of questions for those in the know and the OP.....how long is the seat tube? There seems to be some conflicting information on the link to Flying Merkels, but maybe I am missing something...  See below from Shawns' _Flying Merkel Evolution Link_ on page 1.
> 
> _1917 was the first year of the Motorbike. Documented evidence clearly states the *Flying Merkel Motorbike* was offered as a 20” frame only – no optional size, this was up to 1918. Supposedly no 1919 Motorbikes were made due to wartime restrictions. Between 1920-1923 the FM Motorbike was offered only in a 19” model. The frame tubing was the standard 1” except the lower bar (under the top tube) is 11/16”. The literature says this is ¾” but was likely rounded up._
> This should help determine the year this particular motorbike machine was built, would it not?  If FM's are vetted by the missing badge holes, and this example truly is missing them, then you would assume this example is a 1917 model motorbike and the frame will be 20".  Please measure!   Hmmm, maybe we should confirm?
> ...


----------



## SKPC (May 22, 2021)

Thank you Redline for this clarification on the lug design!   Most excellent.


----------



## catfish (May 22, 2021)

Nice find


----------



## Jesse McCauley (May 23, 2021)

Congratulations bringing a sleeping giant back to life and into the fold!
Who knows what other treasures are waiting to be discovered today!?!


----------



## Ed Minas (May 24, 2021)

I want the Maverick, the heck with the bike.  lol


----------



## Freqman1 (May 24, 2021)

Ed Minas said:


> I want the Maverick, the heck with the bike.  lol



The bike is probably worth more than the Maverick! V/r Shawn


----------



## Freqman1 (Jun 3, 2021)

Any update on this one? Did it find a new home? V/r Shawn


----------



## bentwoody66 (Jun 3, 2021)

Maybe, that's all I'm sayin'


----------



## Pedaltherapy (Jun 3, 2021)

Seriously cool find!! Clean it, ride it..and insure it. Freqman is right- it's worth more than the Maverick (not that I've anything against Mavericks).


----------



## Ed Minas (Jun 4, 2021)

I still want the Maverick.  lol


----------



## SKPC (Nov 12, 2021)

Bump this bike.  How come nobody dives into the details of and the apparent mix of these cool, single-arm Miami crankarms and rings from 1905 through 1922 on Miami bikes: particularly from 1916 to their demise.   So much points back over and over again to the 2" drive pin offset cranks and Merkel, but when somebody points the disparities out, no one seems to want to go deeper or ask why it is important..


----------

