# removing a pipe from the frame seat post riser



## jd56 (Mar 29, 2013)

Here is a quantrum I can't figure out.

First this is a Western Flyer sabre Flyer Murray built middleweight frame that are hard to find. It has the rare needed front steertube tanklight mounting tabs. Given that I need to save this frame but, some idiot shoved an over sized OD (outside diameter) galvanized pipe into the seatpost riser of the frame.

I have tried heating the pipe but, can't budge it. Soaked in penetrating oil....no help!!

Come short of using a plasma ot torch, how would you proceed to the removal?

I was trying to not overheat the frame as I didn't want to repaint the frame....but....I may have no choice here. Come short of trashing the frame and hoping to find the elusive replacement frame, In have no idea what to do here.






Here is why I need to save this frame....these tabs are needed to mount the tanklight. And I have never have seen any others. Unless someone has one they are willing to sell me I may have to just give up on this restoration. It would be a shame as the tanklight is unique and rare.


----------



## John (Mar 29, 2013)

*T-fitting*

You have the threads on the pipe. Get a T-fitting and couple short pieces of pipe so you can screw it on the threaded end and hit it with a sledge hammer. Spin the T to hit it on all sides.
John


----------



## HIGGINSFOREVER (Mar 29, 2013)

Try turning the frame upside down and tighten the pipe in a vice as tight as you can and using the frame try turning it.Or i dont know how far the pipe is in the frame but you may be able to cut the pipe flush with the frame then take a sabra saw and stick it down the opening of the pipe and try to slit it.


----------



## Gordon (Mar 29, 2013)

*pipe post*

I think having the threads is going to be to your advantage. I would make a simple slide hammer with some pieces of pipe and attach it with a pipe coupler.


----------



## scrubbinrims (Mar 29, 2013)

Why don't you try a plumber's pipe wrench (no pun intended)?
Thats what I have used in the situation when I don't care about leaving teeth marks.
Chris


----------



## Iverider (Mar 29, 2013)

I think the T method sounds good because you can put some pretty decent leverage on it. 
Pipe wrench will help twist but will be a little hard to pull at the same time (with the pipe wrench) If you can get someone to twist the pipe back and forth while you slide hammer it out you may just get it out. You could cut it off flush and use a solid steel post with a shim if there is just no removing it from the frame.


----------



## frampton (Mar 29, 2013)

If all else fails, why not remove the tank mounting tab by drilling out the spotwelds. Then plug weld it to a replacement frame.


----------



## Iverider (Mar 29, 2013)

If you do remove the tab, you should make a paper template out before reinstalling it.


----------



## jd56 (Mar 29, 2013)

Great ideas. The threading on the end of the pipe was a concern as I thought I would need them after Ive exhausted all attempts to remove without damaging the threads. 
T fitting idea is a good idea.
Vise....mine sucks and I have tried that method Chris and broke the vise lockdown on the jaws threaded to base securement.
Dont think that pissed me off....:banghead:

The drilling out the tabs was a consideration as well but, remember I was trying to save the frame.
Its amazing what we kids did to our bikes not knowing there would be a collector someday wanting to bring it back to life.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Gary Mc (Mar 29, 2013)

JD, T-Fitting on galvanized pipe & rotate may be your best option and if that doesn't work there is a very tedious & very manual way but it will be slow & painful.  Cut the post off flush, buy several new hacksaw blades and carefully cut the galvanized pipe from the inside into thirds or quarters.  Just tape the end of the blade up with duct tape to grip it.  It would be slow & you'd have to use care but it would most likely work.  Just make sure you don't cut into the seat post.  It appears that galvanizing has almost welded itself to the metal seat post.  It can probably be saved, question is it worth the effort, a choice only you can make.  Good luck with it.


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi (Mar 29, 2013)

I have been a plumber for over 40 years.
I wouldn't trust the threads to take that much stress without welding the tee on first.


----------



## JOEL (Mar 29, 2013)

Simple: thread on a coupler and extend it up to the right height, then add a seat.


----------



## jd56 (Mar 29, 2013)

Joel thats what was on there. If it was a kmart special then I could leave it like it was..
I appreciate the suggestion though.







Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## hzqw2l (Mar 29, 2013)

jd56 said:


> Here is a quantrum I can't figure out.
> 
> First this is a Western Flyer sabre Flyer Murray built middleweight frame that are hard to find. It has the rare needed front steertube tanklight mounting tabs. Given that I need to save this frame but, some idiot shoved an over sized OD (outside diameter) galvanized pipe into the seatpost riser of the frame.
> 
> ...




You need one of these: http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/Portable-Chain-And-Yoke-Vises/EN/index.htm

I found one at an estate sale.  Works every time. Clamp post/pipe into vise.
Turn frame.
Once it breaks loose, twist/pull...twist/pull til the post is out.

Of course the post is history....


----------



## GTs58 (Mar 29, 2013)

Since I'm in cornstruction and have piles or junk hardware, I would get a nut, a handful of washers that fit the pipe diameter and a deep socket on the impact to fit the nut. Load up the washers on the pipe to where you have almost full thread on the nut. Then tighten the nut with the impact and it will break the pipe loose while pulling it out somewhat. If it's still wedged after your nut bottoms out on the threads, add more washers or a piece of pipe as a spacer. Similar process as installing a wedgit, red head, expandable bolt. When you tighten the nut the bolt is pulled up.


----------



## HIGGINSFOREVER (Mar 29, 2013)

Just thought of this, if it is not too long cut it flush and drive the rest down the tube.


----------



## Lynotch (Mar 29, 2013)

GTs58 said:


> Since I'm in cornstruction and have piles or junk hardware, I would get a nut, a handful of washers that fit the pipe diameter and a deep socket on the impact to fit the nut. Load up the washers on the pipe to where you have almost full thread on the nut. Then tighten the nut with the impact and it will break the pipe loose while pulling it out somewhat. If it's still wedged after your nut bottoms out on the threads, add more washers or a piece of pipe as a spacer. Similar process as installing a wedgit, red head, expandable bolt. When you tighten the nut the bolt is pulled up.




I've removed seat posts this same way and I know we'd like to save the paint but heating the frame tube will expand the metal and help release the pipe.


----------



## Andrew Gorman (Mar 29, 2013)

Don't cut the pipe off!  You'll need it to grab on to and get it out.  I'd modify St. Sheldon Brown's method and cut through most of the black pipe with a Sawzall and finish up, at least to a paper thin layer with a hacksaw.  Then, maybe grind a wide kerf in the pipe before trying to twist it out:
http://sheldonbrown.com/stuck-seatposts.html
Hammering the pipe in probably stretched out the seat tube, so you might need some shims or a larger seatpost.  Or, that piece of pipe was hammered in for a reason- what problem did it solve?


----------



## wspeid (Mar 29, 2013)

I forget the name of the pipe fitting firm in Chesapeake but Conte's Cycles recommended them to me.  They drilled out a stuck tube on the Phantom for me for $10.   Great work and now damage to my part.


----------



## GTs58 (Mar 29, 2013)

wspeid said:


> I forget the name of the pipe fitting firm in Chesapeake but Conte's Cycles recommended them to me.  They drilled out a stuck tube on the Phantom for me for $10.   Great work and now damage to my part.




This would be my second preferred method of removing that pipe and was going to mention it but I know my earlier mentioned method will work with the least amount of effort and $ investment.


----------



## jd56 (Mar 30, 2013)

Thanks again for all the suggestions.
Further investigation found the approx 3/16" ID thickness of the pipe to be about 7-8" long inside the frame riser. That's alot of sawing. Locating a sawzall blade small enough to fit in the inside of the pipe and long enough to reach the end of the pipe has been unproductive. A modified hacksaw blade seems to be the ideal blade.
Fortunately there appears to be no bulging of the inner wall of the bike frame riser. 
I like the washer and nut idea but, 8" of pipe to pull is alot of washers or pipe to fit as a bushing over the OD of the pipe.
Then there is the stress of the impacted force on the top of the frame riser and fear of mushrooming the top of the riser.

I'll admit the paint on the bike frame leaves alot to be desired. Heating the pipe and damaging the paint might be a concern I need to give up on.

If it wasn't for the rarity of this front tanklight tabbed steer tube design, I would just trash the frame. Finding the needed replacement would be the best resolution. Hell it's just a 60s Murray built frame after all.

All this for a salvage of a tanklight.
I might be selling the tanklight assembly to a restorer that needs it.
But, then that would be a cop out and acknowledgement of giving up.
Dang unique tabs!!!

At least I have another near complete Murray built Western Flyer Sabre Flyer with this  metal chromed bezel to be proud of in my collection. 

It's just a shame that a simple modification by a previous owner to the lazy " stoner" ingenious idea of replacing a easy to find correct seat tube with a tight fitting galvanized pipe is disheartening to say the least.

I'm sure there are worse modifications done out there that many of you have encountered.


There's  another thread that would be interesting reading.

Signed, 
FRUSTRATED VINTAGE BIKE RESTORER.
JD

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## rideahiggins (Mar 30, 2013)

*Heres what you need*

A vise grip slide hammer.


----------



## Andrew Gorman (Mar 30, 2013)

Or build one of these widgets:
http://s53.photobucket.com/user/gormanao/media/stuckseatpost.jpg.html?sort=3&o=11
For the sawzall blade you will probably have to grind on down to fit inside, or mount a hacksaw blade in the sawzall.


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi (Mar 30, 2013)

Plumbers use an "Easyout" tool. But the problem with that is the tool can break if the pipe is frozen stuck. My opinion is to drill it out.


----------



## GTs58 (Mar 30, 2013)

I don't think there would be any damage using the nut and washers. install the post clamp at the very top edge and just snug it up to where it doesn't slide. Once the pipe is broke loose and up further you might be able to twist and turn it out with a pipe wrench or visegrips without messing up the theads for future removal possibilities. As far as a whole lot of washers and pipe is concerned, Schedule 40 PVC pipe is really cheap and easy to cut. Is there a hole in the bottom bracket shell going into the seat tube like on Schwinns? Turn the frame upside down and pour some PB Blaster or whatever you use in there. It will do a better job than doing it from the top of the seat tube.


----------



## JChapoton (Mar 30, 2013)

find crappy schwinn frame and remove the seat down tube from it and weld it to that frame.


----------



## Rivnut (Mar 30, 2013)

I just did something similar.  Find a friend with a big vise, clamp the frame into the vise, then put a pipe wrench with a cheater bar on the post and put some leverage on it.  Some heat will help.  How long has it been soaking in PB Blaster or something similar?


----------



## how (Mar 30, 2013)

lol funny all the different suggestions

sure fire way is to put a hack saw blade down the tube and cut it,,probably you have to cut it twice so it will collaps and take it out. I have done a seat post like that. I worked on it for about 30 minutes everyday for about 20 days lol,,it is the only surfire way to get it out with out damaging the frame


----------



## jd56 (Mar 30, 2013)

Some great suggestions as I was baffled.

But, good news!!!!
I ground down a sawzall blade to fit inside the pipe and cut it into thirds as suggested.
Shazam!!! Shes out.
Now I can put the bike back together and soon will back up for sale.

Thanks again everybody.

















Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## GTs58 (Mar 30, 2013)

LMAO! Glad you got it out and I bet you were WYAO cutting it into thirds.   Put your Patent Pending on that sawzall blade.


----------



## jd56 (Mar 30, 2013)

WYAO?
Whinning your a$$ off?

Just glad to have gotten it out... would have been a shame to trash the frame. 
And without a little help from my friends it would have been added to the scrap pile and some bike collector would have flagged me down on the way to the scrap yard, asking what I was going to do with the frame.
Many thanks everyone. Beer is on me


----------



## GTs58 (Mar 30, 2013)

That would be working your asp off.  **

I bet that was as fun as breaking off an engine bolt, then breaking off a drill for the easy out and then finally breaking off the easyout after you finally get the easyout in the hole you worked so hard to make. :eek:


----------



## jd56 (Mar 30, 2013)

It was a job.....but the dewalt sawsall did the job. 
Actually the saw did all the work, the hard part was worrying about how to get it done.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------

