# what year is this INDIAN bicycle???????



## gazube (Mar 3, 2015)

bought this for my shop to restore 100% unfortunately it has a repop badge but as many know we do restorations for clients who give us there bikes  .... but this is my own for restoration anyone interested in a nice restored indian when we do it?      little help here if possible im thinking 1919 but need to know what is indian red what is black and i already know its nickle plate...


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## fordsnake (Mar 3, 2015)

Sadly, your thumbnail images can not be increased in size. The fork suggest 1915  through1918, the head tube cones post 1918, and the badge post 1923. Check to see how many holes on your head tube? If there's three, then the badge has been switched out. Not only were the badges different in size, but the badge hole placements were also different.


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## gazube (Mar 4, 2015)

the repop badge is or should have said hendee there are only two holes on head tube and there directly horizontal thinking its the hendee badge if the holes were slight diagonal then it should say indian... ill try to make pics larger its in the shoplittle frame work and its acid dipped and the metal is being buffed smooth before nickel  ...


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## jkent (Mar 4, 2015)

I like the looks of the bike in it's present state and would much rather buy the bike as it is than as a complete resto.
Just my thoughts and opinion. Good luck with the resto and sale.
JKent


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## Goldenindian (Mar 4, 2015)

jkent said:


> I like the looks of the bike in it's present state and would much rather buy the bike as it is than as a complete resto.
> Just my thoughts and opinion. Good luck with the resto and sale.
> JKent





I agree! the bicycle is beautiful the way it is. nice score!


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## catfish (Mar 4, 2015)

jkent said:


> I like the looks of the bike in it's present state and would much rather buy the bike as it is than as a complete resto.
> Just my thoughts and opinion. Good luck with the resto and sale.
> JKent




I agree. Just sell it as is. But if you are going to restore it, buy the right badge for it. They are out there.


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## gazube (Mar 4, 2015)

ok first for the 37 private emails about selling as it thank you for the interest but my discussion was what year is this and it will be for sale when restored... also id like to just say this story from years ago to me    i once met a man years ago before we started restoring things, he had cancer and was elderly.. i was traveling so when we did chat it was at a truck stop and here is what he said to me.....( As you are now, so once was i, and as i am now someday shall you be.. remember me!!!!!!!!!   and you know what " i still do"... this was in 1979 long time right? well some things dont leave our minds and this is how i put it in my company of restorations.. any bike came out a brand new polished cream puff just because the earth has oxygen,air, and dioxides to rust(cancer) doesnt mean that old bikes cant be re-polished again.. to me everybike is thinking the same saying to these new bikes coming out of bike shops today... so now that is out of the way about why i restore, can anyone tell me what year they believe this bike to be??? i know the fork is the new 1917 style. but what about the rest>


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## fordsnake (Mar 5, 2015)

gazube said:


> i know the fork is the new 1917 style.




I recant my earlier comment that the triple plate fork was introduced in 1916. We now have evidence, thanks to Chitown's discovery that the triple plate fork and the split crank hanger were both introduced in 1917 

It’s hard to determine the year of your bike by the grainy photos, but its clear your bike does not have the early head tube bearing cups, so I'll speculate its year between 1920-1922? It also appears to be a scaled down version of the desirable Motorbike? If your plan is to transform it to the deluxe model, here are a few things you should add to your “to find” list:

• Correct Indian Fenders with the outside bead 
• Troxel saddle with a wired rail carriage 
• Long neck stem with a step down stem  
• The handlebar (pseudo motorcycle) longer arms with fixed crossbar 
• Drop kickstand and clip
• And the crème dela crème, the Hendee Mfg Co head badge (which I have a nice one F$)

Good Luck!


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## chitown (Mar 5, 2015)

*Adding 1916 Lit which shows single crown truss fork*

Not sure if this falls into the category of illustrations not reflecting the actual floor models sold or they lagged behind a bit in seasons or that the triple crown did come later in '17.


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## chitown (Mar 5, 2015)

*A little more digging and... 1917 for the new fork.*


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## hoofhearted (Mar 5, 2015)

*Posted these pics in a CABE thread just a few days ago titled Old Indian .........*























 *1917 Indian and Later*



 *1917 Indian and Later*










==========================
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## fordsnake (Mar 5, 2015)

As always…more layers to the onions are being peeled back. Patric, I've always placed Easywind's bike as a stellar example of originality…but the combination of the fork and its badge has always baffled me..until now! Thanks to Chitown's (forensic) sleuthing again, it appears the combination of the Westfield fork and opened letter "Indian" badge was indeed used in 1916!!! So I'll throw this out just as a conjecture...after a 12 year absence, Hendee conceded to the recognizable Westfield's fork (this fork was used on several Westfield bikes) This would allow Hendee to expedite production – to get back in the game in 1916. Therefore the company could take the time for tooling a new fork and a new Hendee badge for 1917?


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## sm2501 (Mar 5, 2015)

So 1916 bikes did not have the split crank hangar, as it was introduced in 1917. When did Indian stop using that feature. Early 20's? I would say Gazube's bike is a post 20's bike, and really couldn't be converted to an earlier version.


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## fordsnake (Mar 5, 2015)

Gazube has not shared pics of the bottom of his crank hanger. It looks like it is sans the bolts in photo 3 of his attached pics…but it's hard (for me) to discern? If there is no split…it doesn't mean it's not a pre 1920 Indian ( apparently Indian introduced eleven models in 1917)  

Perhaps Gazube can supply better images of his bike and tell us the size of the frame?


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## gazube (Mar 5, 2015)

this was the listing the owner posted when i bought the bike..... any truth in his writing????


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## gazube (Mar 5, 2015)

here is the serial number and bottom of the crank area


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## gazube (Mar 5, 2015)

gazube said:


> here is the serial number and bottom of the crank area




J41178  serial number for the indian


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## JKT (Mar 5, 2015)

this bike was offered several times on eBay...


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## gazube (Mar 5, 2015)

i bought it for my restoration shop, out of the ebay auction in hopes of restoring to original beauty   wonder now if i should have closed my eyes to buying it..if its a parts bike im hoping not more research


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## gazube (Mar 8, 2015)

this is not a split crank yet i was told the indian was 1920 give or take does anyone have an indian without the split crank??? the bike has the right sprocket but not im wondering did someone just change the sprocket to just any bike


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## fordsnake (Mar 9, 2015)

Until now I’ve always thought Indians prior to 1920 were all equipped with a split-bottom crank hanger. But I now stand corrected. 

The 1916 model came with a one-piece hanger shell, plus unusual dropouts, a Westfield fork and the opened “Indian” script head badge…as seen on Easywind’s 1916 Indian below.







Thanks to Chitown’s brilliant sleuthing the other day…we’ve now discovered the 1917 Indian was a complete redesign, introducing the split-crank, a new fork, new dropouts, and a new badge!  



Thanks again to Chitown and his forensic discoveries…there’s a jewel of information he shared on another thread that reveals that Hendee offered several hangers on the 1919 models.






Lastly, due to the WWI effort, the War Industries Board placed restrictions on sales and production for the 1919 Indians!









Armed with the above puzzle pieces, that Indians were featured with both a split and a one piece hanger shell in 1919, plus the company was mandated to limit production and to use all available inventory that same year...it’s _plausible_ your bike could be a model 71, 1919 Indian???

I hope this helps?

Carlton


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## gazube (Mar 9, 2015)

many thanks to you carlton and all who helped me with the indian  i was almost ready to trash the bike i was so upset that someone tried to shaft me putting a indian sprocket on a who knows frame but i fell alot better knowing they used one piece.. ill keep you posted with pics from the shop this week .....  frank


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## HIGGINSFOREVER (Mar 11, 2015)

What year did hendee start with the split crank,I have a chance to buy a complete bike that the seller is saying is a 1890.There is no badge holes and it has the split crank.Could this be a early indian frame.


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## gazube (Mar 13, 2015)

gene i think the split crank was new for 1917 according to the papers ive seen  do you have a picture>>???


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## gazube (Mar 13, 2015)

*primed frame ready for paint*

this is the frame ive talked about on this thread  for all plausible cause its a 1919 hendee indian   when done it will sport the indian red with gold pinstripping and nickle plating white tires white rough rider grips white pedals and for sale..... just need a real headbadge and im good..... till then ill keep up with pics...


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## HIGGINSFOREVER (Mar 14, 2015)

gazube said:


> gene i think the split crank was new for 1917 according to the papers ive seen  do you have a picture>>???




Working on getting pictures.He tells me there is no badge holes.Thats why i dont know if its a hendee frame.


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## gazube (Mar 15, 2015)

hendee did not have a decal for the headbadge it was either up and down screws side by side or diagonal later on   we will wait for photos but beware of people who think but are not sure of the bikes


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## gazube (Mar 15, 2015)

*hubs*

i have a new departure model A and C    1919 was A correct? and what was front W? or nothing just new departure........


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## fordsnake (Mar 15, 2015)

It should be a Corbin Duplex Coaster Brake, Model 8


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## gazube (Mar 18, 2015)

gene  if your looking into the bike with split crank and no screw holes look at my barnes white flyer tandem barnes made a bike to go against the sterns yellow fellow it had a waterslide decal on the head tube and a split crank ill show pics see if its the same as yours.....


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## gazube (Mar 18, 2015)

pics of indian restoration 1925


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## bikejunk (Mar 19, 2015)

Wow I don't know what to say !!


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## Luchotocado (May 13, 2015)

Thats amazing


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