# Schwinn Lightweight Solid And Qr, Axles, Cones, 26 Tpi And Metric



## momo608

Looking for replacements for my not so perfect cones on my front and rear axles for a Sports Tourer and 70's Superior. Know of an aftermarket source?

What is the Schwinn size for these? got the 26tpi understood but the OD is a bit confusing for both front and rear.


----------



## Metacortex

I don't know of an aftermarket source, but the hub internal parts are the same as used on any of the other "Made in France" Schwinn quick release hubs such as those on the Continental and Super Sport. More on that here: http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1047471-how-old-normandy-round-hole-hubs.html#post18515277

The front axles are threaded 9mm x 1.0 and the rears are 10mm x 1.0.


----------



## momo608

The rears measure 9.7mm for the hollow axle and 9.45mm for a rear solid axle like those found on non quick release Continentals. Interestingly those cheap replacements hollow axles they sell on ebay are the same size as Schwinn rear solid axles, the Schwinn cones and nuts fit perfect if you want to use them. No good for the front because the cones are way too long but the axle itself fits the dropouts. Yes the front and rear cones on the ebay cheapos are the appropriate bearing size for F+R. The search continues. The Schwinn store on ebay has some I believe but they are pricey. Always feel i get hosed dealing with those people.


----------



## Metacortex

There has been some confusion on this but Schwinn axle threading for lightweights is as follows:

Front hollow (quick-release) - 9mm x 1.0
Rear hollow (quick-release) - 10mm x 1.0

Front solid (bolt-on) - 5/16" x 26tpi
Rear solid (bolt-on) - 3/8" x 26tpi


----------



## momo608

That is the source of confusion, metric and sae on the same type of hubs.

With your help I think I found some cones. I'll report back on this when I get them.


----------



## Metacortex

momo608 said:


> With your help I think I found some cones. I'll report back on this when I get them.




Thanks, I'd be *very* interested to find a source of new replacements! So far I've had to pirate them from Ladies' Super Sports and Continentals.


----------



## momo608

Still further confusion comes from the fact that 1.00mm metric thread pitch = 25.4 TPI . Very close to 26 TPI for the 3/8" axle.
The Conversion  25.4 TPI =  0.03937  =  1.000mm

Here are those cheap QR axles. As you can see the much more plentiful rear 3/8" 26TPI Schwinn cones and nuts fit on these. They are indeed 3/8" with 26TPI. You can use the cones and nuts that come with these because they are very close once you sort out the keyed washer issue. The new QR axles use a serrated locking jamb nut instead of keyed washers. The new QR axles are not keyed. The fronts would have worked but the cones they come with are too long to fit in between the fork dropouts, bummer. The sellers description on the size of these axles is really bad, since they are practically giving them away I took a chance.

The axle on the right has been cut down to Super Sport specs. Sorry for the blur but you get the point. 






Description
*Description:*


100% brand new and high quality
Can refit the ordinary axle into quick release axle
The best product for cyclist for cycling lovers
Easy to use
*Specifications:*


Color: Black + silver
Material: Metal
Front axle length: Approx. 4.25inch/108mm
Rear axle length: Approx. 5.83inch/148mm
Thread exterior diameter: Approx. 0.37inch/9.5mm
*Package included:*


2 x Quick release axle
*Note:*
1.Please allow a little size error due to manual measurement.
2.Please be reminded that due to lighting effects and monitor's brightness/contrast settings etc, the color tone of the website's photo and the actual item could be slightly different.

lots of sellers of these on Ebay

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=271956216200


----------



## Eric Amlie

This may be one of those cases where it's best to visit your friendly local bike shop.
Hopefully they have an experienced mechanic who knows the ins & outs of this issue.


----------



## momo608

Eric Amlie said:


> This may be one of those cases where it's best to visit your friendly local bike shop.
> Hopefully they have an experienced mechanic who knows the ins & outs of this issue.




This is one of those cases when I will know more than the "experienced mechanic". Thanks for the advice but that is never an option for me on something this simple. I already have it worked out anyway. I was just relaying some interesting information on some cheap axles I found for you guys to use if you like.


----------



## Metacortex

I thought these catalog pages would be a useful reference for this topic:








Note that the "Used on original equipment from January 1965" is misleading. These "Schwinn Approved" hubs were identical to the 2nd gen. "Sprint" hubs that were introduced at that time. 1964 models used the 1st gen. Sprint hubs, prior to that Normandy round hole hubs were used. The branding on the hubs changed from "Sprint" to "Schwinn Approved" by 1968 (possibly partway through '67) however the design remained the same.


----------



## Eric Amlie

momo608 said:


> This is one of those cases when I will know more than the "experienced mechanic". Thanks for the advice but that is never an option for me on something this simple.




Certainly didn't mean to impugn your talent or knowledge, but sometimes the experience of others who have been through it all many times before can save us the trouble and expense of buying the wrong parts. Those people will also probably know where to find the right parts.


----------



## momo608

Eric Amlie said:


> Certainly didn't mean to impugn your talent or knowledge, but sometimes the experience of others who have been through it all many times before can save us the trouble and expense of buying the wrong parts. Those people will also probably know where to find the right parts.




I know you want to help. Thank You!  Call me crazy but I think of asking for outside help on anything mechanical as a personal failure. I just don't do it unless it calls for expensive equipment that makes no sense to buy to finish a job. There is no excuse anymore to not figure things out for yourself with the internet. 

I don't know what you guys think, but I view this as a do it yourself forum above all else. We help each other never need service at a bike shop.


----------



## Dale Alan

momo608 said:


> I know you want to help. Thank You!  Call me crazy but I think of asking for outside help on anything mechanical as a personal failure. I just don't do it unless it calls for expensive equipment that makes no sense to buy to finish a job. There is no excuse anymore to not figure things out for yourself with the internet.
> 
> I don't know what you guys think, but I view this as a do it yourself forum above all else. We help each other never need service at a bike shop.



I'm with you 100%,with the internet you can pretty much learn to do anything for yourself .Much of my enjoyment in this hobby comes from doing my own work . Nothing against shops or their mechanics,they are good for folks who choose not to tackle their own projects . I am way to meticulous to trust someone to do my work.Shop mechanics don't have the luxury of limitless time to spend on a project like I do. I can spend all the time I need until I am 100 percent satisfied I have things as perfect as possible.


----------



## fattyre

This stuff is high quality.   I just replace axles and cones and don't bother with all that Schwinn TPI nonsense.

http://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-parts/all-cones.html?limit=all

http://wheelsmfg.com/products/hub-parts/all-cones.html?limit=all


----------



## momo608

fattyre said:


> This stuff is high quality.   I just replace axles and cones and don't bother with all that Schwinn TPI nonsense.l




fattyre, if you have worked out an axle and cone replacement with part numbers for Schwinn Lightweights, let us know!


I did look at that website and I have not given up on it yet. I found what I needed that more closely matched the Schwinn parts on Ebay. There is a guy selling a NOS supply of cones in many metric threaded sizes.. Should have them in a few days. Unfortunately he only had two left of the rear cones that matched my needs. There are more fronts available. I'll let everyone know how they fit once I get them. They should be spot on.

The Schwinn Store on Ebay has fronts and rear complete with axles for $29 and $34 shipped. Wheels MFG prices the cones a $9 each plus shipping and they are not a perfect match. In this case I'd go with the Schwinn Store.

Does anyone know what the application for these Schwinn part #'s are? I'm thinking a 70's Super Sport and Continental rear would be a longer axle than say for a Sports Tourer or 70's Superior. 


http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHWINN-BIC...hash=item1c064db489:m:mp3PcQrcS8eEqpcuEUr_Tjg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHWINN-BIC...D-BIKEs-NOS-/151370328179?hash=item233e5fe873


----------



## Metacortex

momo608 said:


> Does anyone know what the application for these Schwinn part #'s are?




What are the part numbers for those listings? As you can see from the parts catalog pages I posted above, the p/n for a front quick-release axle set is 33 150 and the rear is 33 151.



> I'm thinking a 70's Super Sport and Continental rear would be a longer axle than say for a Sports Tourer or 70's Superior.




All of the "Made in France" quick-release large flange hubs used the same axle sets. Those hubs were used on the Continental, Super Sport, Sports Tourer and Superior.


----------



## momo608

Metacortex said:


> What are the part numbers for those listings? As you can see from the parts catalog pages I posted above, the p/n for a front quick-release axle set is 33 150 and the rear is 33 151.
> 
> 
> 
> All of the "Made in France" quick-release large flange hubs used the same axle sets. Those hubs were used on the Continental, Super Sport, Sports Tourer and Superior.




Wouldn't the Super Sport and the Continental that used the derailleur hanger off the axle require a longer axle? Where as the Sports Tourer and Superior had a built onto the frame dropout hanger that would not require a longer axle. This is an assumption on my part.

The part number was not readable on the rears, this is what it is per the Schwinn Stores reply, # 33147

Front #33146


----------



## momo608

fattyre said:


> This stuff is high quality.   I just replace axles and cones and don't bother with all that Schwinn TPI nonsense.l




Have you worked out any Schwinn applications to share with us using the source you mentioned for axles and cones? 


Am I a jerk for asking this question?


----------



## fattyre

momo608 said:


> fattyre, if you have worked out an axle and cone replacement with part numbers for Schwinn Lightweights, let us know!





  I simply took the old axles and cones and matched them as close as I could to Wheels Manufacturing cones and axles.  I remember having to shorten the front one a bit.  Not sure if I did that because they didn't offer the right length or that's all that was in stock (I worked in a bike shop at the time).  I replaced some washers with non keyed ones and filed keys off others.  I spaced everything as close as I could to original and used higher quality Shimano jam nuts as well.  I also aligned drop outs with a Park Tools drop out aligner.  Everything fit together really well.  I have no idea what what any part numbers were.

  I did this at least 15 years ago to a 70's Super Sport that I had for a short time.  I have since sold that bike.   I replaced those parts because the stuff was stronger than stock, much higher quality and was being proactive because (rear) axle replacement is a somewhat common repair for freewheel equipped bikes.


----------



## Eric Amlie

fattyre said:


> ... was being proactive because (rear) axle replacement is a somewhat common repair for freewheel equipped bikes.




Don't know about the axle replacement, but on almost all of these wheelsets that I've worked on, the front cones are pitted and need replacement. The rear cones are usually ok. I think Campagnolo did a good thing by upsizing their front bearings to 7/32".


----------



## momo608

Eric Amlie said:


> Don't know about the axle replacement, but on almost all of these wheelsets that I've worked on, the front cones are pitted and need replacement. The rear cones are usually ok. I think Campagnolo did a good thing by upsizing their front bearings to 7/32".




For sale, one slightly used Brooklyn Bridge.


----------



## Metacortex

momo608 said:


> Wouldn't the Super Sport and the Continental that used the derailleur hanger off the axle require a longer axle? Where as the Sports Tourer and Superior had a built onto the frame dropout hanger that would not require a longer axle. This is an assumption on my part.




The stamped dropouts are several millimeters thinner than the forged dropouts w/integral hanger. The thinner dropouts compensate for the thickness of the separate claw hanger so it ends up evening out.



> The part number was not readable on the rears, this is what it is per the Schwinn Stores reply, # 33147
> Front #33146




So far I can't find those numbers in any of my parts books and they are not the numbers listed for the "Made in France" quick-release large flange hubs. I have a few more books to check, I'll post if I can find them.


----------



## Metacortex

momo608 said:


> ...The part number was not readable on the rears, this is what it is per the Schwinn Stores reply, # 33147
> Front #33146




OK, I couldn't find them in any 1983 or earlier parts catalog, but I did find those numbers listed in the 1989 parts catalog as being for Maillard "sealed" front and rear hubs. That same catalog still listed the 33 150 and 33 151 axles for "standard" hubs. I don't know if the axle sets for "sealed" hubs will work for "standard" ones.


----------



## momo608

Metacortex said:


> OK, I couldn't find them in any 1983 or earlier parts catalog, but I did find those numbers listed in the 1989 parts catalog as being for Maillard "sealed" front and rear hubs. That same catalog still listed the 33 150 and 33 151 axles for "standard" hubs. I don't know if the axle sets for "sealed" hubs will work for "standard" ones.





Thanks a lot for you time and effort on this!

 It will be expensive to find out if these will work for us. I'll do some looking around on sealed hubs and see what I can find.


----------



## momo608

CONE INTERCHANGEABILITY INTERCHANGEABILITY In every possible case, replace a worn cone with an identical cone. There will be many times when this will not be possible so it becomes necessary to know how to pick a correct substitute cone. For this there are some general guidelines and testing procedures that can be used to determine compatibility. These general guidelines are based on certain tendencies that are common to certain brands. Shimano has made more models of hubs over the years than anyone could possibly keep track of. Many of these models are externally different only. It is quite common that the cones in one model are identical to another model. Even when not identical, the cones may differ only in ways such as quality, finish, design of seal, or overall length. If seal differences exist, then the quality of the seal may be compromised but not the functionality of the hub. If only a length difference exists, it can often be made up for with a spacer change. The Shimano Parts Dealer Parts Catalog has excellent descriptive information about cones. If the dimensions for two different cones match, they are usually interchangeable with few critical complications. Wheels Mfg. makes duplicates of certain Shimano cones. Some distributors (including United Bicycle Parts and Quality Bicycle Products) have created compatibility charts or systems to make it easier to determine which Shimano cone substitutes for another Shimano cone. Suzue hubs are knockoffs of some older Shimano hubs, so there is often compatibility between Suzue and Shimano cones.

 Atom, Normandy, Maillard, and some Schwinn Approved hubs are all different names that appear on what are essentially the same hub, so cones of one type can often be used on a hub with one of the other names. Sachs has bought the Maillard company and sometimes the older parts will be called Sachs when they fit the older Maillard, Normandy, and Atom hubs. Schwinn Approved has appeared mostly on Maillard products (early seventies through the mid-seventies), but during the same time period Schwinn Approved appeared on Sanshin and Shimano products on occasion. Sanshin, Sunshine, and SunTour are different brand names that appear on hubs made by the Sanshin company, so compatibility often exists between hubs with these brand names. 

Jou Yu and Joy Tech are two names for the same company. Wald company makes a number of replacement axle sets that fit a variety of historical and current American-made front hubs that are found on department-store bikes and older fat-tire one-speeds. These brands include Wald, Weco, Union, Schwinn, Ross, New Departure, Excel, and Enlite. The test to determine cone compatibility has a number of steps that originally test for a likely replacement cone, and then empirically tests for compatibility. See figures 12.3, 12.4, 12.5, 12.6, 12.7, and 12.8 (page 12-6). Hold the old cone and possible substitute together small end to small end. Check whether the small-end diameters match. Check whether the curves of the two cones appear symmetrical. Check whether the overall cone length of the possible replacement is equal or longer (replacement cant be shorter). Check whether replacements overall diameter is equal to or less than original (replacement diameter cannot be larger unless hole in dustcap can be enlarged).


----------



## momo608

http://www.esense.be/bike/Barnettmanual.pdf


----------



## momo608

I believe I have exhausted all avenues on this. The Shimano/ Wheels MFG suggestion IS a dead end as I suspected. Nothing would fit right, not even close. The sealed bearing type Maillards that the Schwinn store sells is your best option, just remove the dust plates and you are good to go. The cheapos for the rear I suggested will work and you can use Schwinn 3/8" solid axle cones if you like. But you would have 3/8" axles instead of 10mm, so 1/2 mm smaller. Not a problem as the lightweights used 3/8" axles with the non QR hubs. I suppose they would not be quite as strong because of the reduced axle size, but they are cheap.

I did receive the front cones I mentioned and they do work, but they required thinner washers and of course the quantities are extremely limited. The guy hasn't even relisted them yet.  I also found these fronts. These are the same axle from the Schwinn Store but under their other business name Bicycle heaven. $24 shipped

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHWINN-BIC...-BIKE-OTHER-/121079606523?hash=item1c30e82cfb

If anyone has some real world experience finding suitable replacements for any of this, let us know.

If any professional bike shop mechanics out there want to seek out my advice, I'm willing! LOL  Don't be so damn sensitive out there!


----------



## momo608

These are the measurements for the stock Schwinn QR cones.

Front 9mm x 1.00 pitch thread x 10.06mm length x 15.80mm diameter

Rear 10mm x 1.00 pitch thread x 12.25mm length x 17.70mm diameter


----------



## momo608

some interesting solid axle info on using 8mm axles in place of 5/16"

Needed some longer axles on my varsity to comfortably fit the huret speedo drive. Looks like 5 1/2" inches is as long as Schwinn made the 5/16 26tpi keyed solid axles, at least any that are available now. I like to see about a 1/4" inch of axle thread showing once everything is installed so 5 1/2" won't cut it with axle mounted fenders and the speedo. So it looks like 8mm solid non keyed axles are my only alternative. I knew the vintage metric axle quick release wingnuts fit the Schwinn 3/8" and 5/16" 26tpi axles because I use them on a few of my bikes but these are technically 25.4tpi. not 26tpi., 25.4tpi is the metric 1.0 pitch thread. The problems come in with the Schwinn cones, the nuts fit fine with no binding at all. The cones are just long enough where the thread tpi difference starts binding. To fix it, I ran a 8mm 1.0 tap halfway into the cones, not all the way through. This was enough to make them work with no binding.

Incidentally the OD of a Schwinn 5/16" 26tpi thread measures  .3095" the 8mm 1.0 thread measures .3080 which is less than a piece of standard printer paper which measures .0040. BTW, don't try to file out the key on the Schwinn washers. they are so hard it'll ruin your files first so get new washer and second, since the axle cones are also hardened, the tap I used is now dedicated to cone modifying since it probably won't cut a perfect 8mm thread any longer. 

I wonder if the Huret wingnuts once sold as a Schwinn accessory in Schwinn part #'ed bags are truly 26tpi since the 1.0 metric thread fits so well on the 26tpi axles.


----------



## momo608

I ended up using a mixture of parts for my speedometer drive project. The cones are 26tpi modified per the above post and the rest is 8mm hardware I got from this part numbered axle set. Could have went with all 26tpi but this 8mm hardware is a little better fitting on the 8mm axle. I test fit the metric cones with the built in hex on them and they would have worked on the Varsity hubs but decided on the 26tpi cones because they fit in the dust shields on the hubs better and I know they are a perfect fit with the ball bearings, the metrics left a larger space between the cone and shield for dirt to get in there.


----------



## momo608

Cut some keyways into replacement axles, I thought this would be helpful. The cuts are .045 deep X 3/32 wide. Slow mill passes taking off .010 at a time on the not so hard silver axles and .005 at a time on the noticeably harder  Cro-mo's.  I modiffied some NOS Crown (Jap made) 5/16" axles and Niagara's 4348 wheelmaster pyramid axles set 3/8 x 175mm x 26tpi and 4313 wheelmaster Cro-mo solid 3/8 x 175mm x 26tpi, to use original Schwinn keyed washers. The 175mm axles are about 7mm longer than stock, so about 3.5mm or 1/8" more showing on each side of hub. They sell 165mm axles which are about 2mm shorter than stock Schwinn and will work fine, you should have about one thread showing on each side with these axles. Wanted to do some keyways anyway because nos schwinn 26 tpi axles are getting hard to come by. Not being able to use Schwinn keyed washers causes problems with spacing, and I like the keyed washer set up. You'll ruin your files trying to file that key out of those black washers.

The two on the bottom are original Schwinn




Next time I'll make the cuts shorter on these 5/16. 3 more to do.






Cro-Mo  Actually I was surprised my standard end mill survived these. went very slow on the cuts with lots of cutting oil and kept it clean between passes. 





It should be noted that the cones supplied with these axles are about .070 longer than stock. I use Schwinn parts when I can. The Schwinn stack, Schwinn cone, keyed washer and Schwinn jamb nut total .6620. The Wheelmaster set eliminates the washer all together and the stack is, cone and jamb nut .6910. Substitute the Schwinn jamb nut for the WM = .6565 . With some shim washers you could dial this right in. although the WM cones are .6655 OD vs the Schwinn .6975. This creates a large space on the hubs for dirt to get in your bearings, but if you need cones, well....

Still looking for a source of new readily available perfect fitting cones.


*Wheel Master Pyramid Axle Set, without Dust Cap - RR 3/8 x 26 x 126 x 175*
YOU PAY:
$2.47



*WheelMaster Cro-Mo Axle, Mx Solid - RR 3/8 x 175mm x 26T*
YOU PAY:
$3.99

Didn't use these but they are the correct dimensions, perfect length.



*Wheel Master Pyramid Axle Set, without Dust Cap - FT 5/16 x 26 x 96 x 140*
YOU PAY:
$1.99


----------



## warnergt

How about this?
SCHWINN BICYCLE REAR HUB QUICK RELEASE AXLE ROAD BIKES NOS


----------

