# Schwinn Lightweight Spoke Reference Guide?



## SirMike1983 (Aug 16, 2021)

Has anyone ever assembled a guide to the spoke lengths needed for various Schwinn lightweights? What got me thinking about this more was working on a bike yesterday, when I pulled the spokes to check length only to find out it was an in-between length I do not have. I have several boxes of 11&1/8 inch spokes. They tend to be common on a standard size, 3-speed type bike. The old timers would just buzz the ends with a grinder or file if they stuck out a little in the rim. It turns out the 11&1/8 spokes were too short. The longer spokes I had were too long.

So I measured and found:

Sturmey Archer AW -> Schwinn S6 Stainless 26 inch: 11&3/8 inches (double-butted, standard gauge), 36 cross 4 pattern
Schwinn hourglass front -> Schwinn S6 Stainless 26 inch: 11&3/8 inches (double-butted, standard gauge), 36 cross 4 pattern

If we don't already have one, it would be nice to have all of these different spoke lengths in a single thread or post or chart somewhere here. I suspect perhaps 11&1/8 was used on 36, cross 3 pattern for later Schwinn 3-speeds, but I still need to measure a couple wheels hanging up in my garage to verify. Then there are the 27 inch wheels, which are a different ballgame. 

Would anyone be willing to share their spoke length data so that we could have a single reference guide for 26 and 27 inch lightweights?


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## cyclingday (Aug 16, 2021)




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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 16, 2021)

the chart did not have S-6 rim with a 3 speed hub. or S-6 rim with a 2 speed kickback..... "most American lightweights"... it is almost useless. a guess at best.


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## cyclingday (Aug 16, 2021)

The hub flange diameter does not matter if a cross four pattern is used.
11-7/16” is generally going to work.
The spoke length may be a tad long or short, but typically, no more than a 1/16” one way or the other.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 16, 2021)

it does not mention 3 or 4 cross either.


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 16, 2021)

A couple more measurements on what I have handy. These are from an early 1960s Schwinn wheel set.

Sturmey AW -> Schwinn S5, 36 spokes cross 3 = 11.00 inch spokes (perhaps a shade longer). Double butted spokes.
Schwinn hourglass front -> Schwinn S5, 36 spokes cross 3 = 11&1/4 inch spokes. Double butted spokes.

You might be able to get 11&1/8 to work for this wheelset as long as you stick to cross 3. They seem like they'd be just a touch long in back (maybe get away with rim eyelet washer) and just a touch short in front. But if you had just 11&1/8, you could probably make a go of it.


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## SirMike1983 (Sep 9, 2021)

I got a chance to build the rear wheel last weekend: 1950s Sturmey AW, Sapim double-butted stainless spokes, Schwinn S6 rim. I used 288mm spokes, but 290 would also have worked. Cross four pattern.  11 7/16 is 290.5 or so, so the Torrington box estimate is fairly good for the rear.

I need to build a front this weekend, if I get a chance. It will be a Schwinn hourglass front to S6 rim. I'm going to try cross 4 pattern to make use of 288 or 290mm double butted spokes. The 290 is close to 11 7/16, which in theory will work with cross 4. My only concern is what kind of pattern cross 4 will give on a low flange hub. I may end up overlapping spoke heads. It's not ideal, but I'll bet if I go back and look, the originals had some overlap up front using cross 4 and they seemed to work OK.


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## SirMike1983 (Sep 12, 2021)

Success - when building S6 3-speed wheels (Schwinn S6 26 x 1 3/8 AKA 597mm) with a 36 cross four pattern both front and rear, you can use 288mm spokes (this is the min length and will work but I would go no shorter); or you can use 290mm (this is a good length); or you can use 292mm (this is also good, especially if you're using thicker spoke/rim washers). These work for both the Sturmey AW rear and the Schwinn hourglass front hub.

One other thing: when you build the front wheel cross four with the hourglass hub, you'll have to stick carefully to the build and not give up on it prematurely. You'll be butting spokes over the heads of other spokes on the same flange, which many people try to avoid when building a regular wheel.  The original wheels I have from the late 40s and early 50s both butt spokes over other spoke heads. At first the front wheel especially may seem like it will not work cross 4, but if you stick with the build and carefully lace it, when you go to tension the wheel it will fall into place. When I first started lacing, I was getting very "short" feeling cross spokes (the two sets you lace after torquing the hub) and very long seeming "straight spokes" (that is, the first two sets you lace). As I tensioned the spokes, the crossing spokes drew the rim, and equalized the seemingly imbalanced lengths. From there, everything came together nicely,


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