# Rolls Royce Bicycle - Information needed



## CharlesNichols (Jan 1, 2018)

I just purchased a Edward E. Crist Co. "Rolls Royce" Bicycle from an upscale auction house.  They indicated the bike was form the 1920 to early 1930s.  It is a woman's bike and has the Rolls Royce Badge.  I purchased it because it also has the original paint and pin striping. It looks to be all original.  I have been trying to find any information, but I am hitting dead ends.  I cannot find where Rolls Royce made Bicycles.  I was wonder did Crist Co. make the bike.  I was hoping someone would have some information.

Thanks for your time Charlie


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## Freqman1 (Jan 1, 2018)

Looks late 30s Westfield to me and sold by Crist. The stem is worth more than the whole bike. No sure if there was a legitimate RR connection or not. V/r Shawn


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## Duchess (Jan 1, 2018)

With a fairly extensive knowledge of automotive history, I highly doubt there's a connection. Usually, legit automotive connections come from a company that started building bicycles first and I have never heard of Henry Royce building bicycles before cars (and if he did, it would have to have been sometime in the 1890s, which is before this bike) and it just doesn't fit in the portfolio post 1906. The badge is also completely different.


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## Brian R. (Jan 1, 2018)

Freqman1 said:


> Looks late 30s Westfield to me and sold by Crist. The stem is worth more than the whole bike. No sure if there was a legitimate RR connection or not. V/r Shawn




So what's the story on the stem?


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## redline1968 (Jan 1, 2018)

Blue bird stem very expensive.. $$$$$$  at the rate these bikes are going up I’d place 1k on it


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## barneyguey (Jan 2, 2018)

CharlesNichols said:


> I just purchased a Edward E. Crist Co. "Rolls Royce" Bicycle from an upscale auction house.  They indicated the bike was form the 1920 to early 1930s.  It is a woman's bike and has the Rolls Royce Badge.  I purchased it because it also has the original paint and pin striping. It looks to be all original.  I have been trying to find any information, but I am hitting dead ends.  I cannot find where Rolls Royce made Bicycles.  I was wonder did Crist Co. make the bike.  I was hoping someone would have some information.
> 
> Thanks for your time Charlie
> 
> ...



Howdy! I really like the bike! Any chance in getting a more clear photo of the badge? Thanks, Barry


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## bikeyard (Jan 2, 2018)

Looks like an Elgin finned rear hub too


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## bulldog1935 (Jan 2, 2018)

Duchess said:


> With a fairly extensive knowledge of automotive history, I highly doubt there's a connection. Usually, legit automotive connections come from a company that started building bicycles first and I have never heard of Henry Royce building bicycles before cars (and if he did, it would have to have been sometime in the 1890s, which is before this bike) and it just doesn't fit in the portfolio post 1906. The badge is also completely different.



Within the US, it appeared to be fair game to use the Rolls name to imply quality without worry of infringing on the trademark.  It was very common among merchants (not manufacturers) to use the name.
An example from fly reels I can give is Herters from the '50s used the name and badge on fly reels they imported from Redditch.
I know Hardy Brothers wasn't this generous.  I know of two American fly reels from the 20s/30s that copied their best and ended in court, one for a patent infringement, the other for a style trademark infringement (even though the mechanical patent had long expired)


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## dnc1 (Jan 2, 2018)

Don't believe they ever made bicycles. If they did, it certainly wouldn't have been as utilitarian as this example!
They did occasionally allow the use of their brand in conjunction with other manufacturers products, ie. 'Hill Special'-the Rolls Royce of bicycles, and 'Brough Superior'-the Rolls Royce of motorcycles are two examples I can think of.


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## rhenning (Jan 2, 2018)

Singer sewing machines made a model 201-2 which is known as the Rolls Royce of sewing machines.  Probably is and was actually the the machine Rolls used for sewing interiors post WW2 into the 1960s.  Roger


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## dnc1 (Jan 2, 2018)

rhenning said:


> Singer sewing machines made a model 201-2 which is known as the Rolls Royce of sewing machines.  Probably is and was actually the the machine Rolls used for sewing interiors post WW2 into the 1960s.  Roger
> 
> View attachment 732037



Thanks for that Roger, did Singer use it in their advertising?


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## bulldog1935 (Jan 2, 2018)

no ads with the simile google up, but the guy who wrote the book has this reference that Rolls did use the 201 for sewing their leather
http://www.sewalot.com/singer_201k_sewalot.htm


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## CharlesNichols (Jan 2, 2018)

Freqman1 said:


> Looks late 30s Westfield to me and sold by Crist. The stem is worth more than the whole bike. No sure if there was a legitimate RR connection or not. V/r Shawn



Thank you very much for the informatio


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## CharlesNichols (Jan 2, 2018)

Duchess said:


> With a fairly extensive knowledge of automotive history, I highly doubt there's a connection. Usually, legit automotive connections come from a company that started building bicycles first and I have never heard of Henry Royce building bicycles before cars (and if he did, it would have to have been sometime in the 1890s, which is before this bike) and it just doesn't fit in the portfolio post 1906. The badge is also completely different.



Thank you - I now know it was more of a reference of quality and not the actual car company.  Not sure it worked well for the Crist Co. but at least I have an idea of what the bike is about


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## CharlesNichols (Jan 2, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> Within the US, it appeared to be fair game to use the Rolls name to imply quality without worry of infringing on the trademark.  It was very common among merchants (not manufacturers) to use the name.
> An example from fly reels I can give is Herters from the '50s used the name and badge on fly reels they imported from Redditch.
> I know Hardy Brothers wasn't this generous.  I know of two American fly reels from the 20s/30s that copied their best and ended in court, one for a patent infringement, the other for a style trademark infringement (even though the mechanical patent had long expired)



Thanks I am getting a pretty good idea this has nothing to do with the actual Rolls Royce Co.  Still like the bike - thanks for the info


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## CharlesNichols (Jan 2, 2018)

bikeyard said:


> Looks like an Elgin finned rear hub too



Thank you - I am new to bike collecting and I appreciate the knowledge


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## CharlesNichols (Jan 2, 2018)

redline1968 said:


> Blue bird stem very expensive.. $$$$$$  at the rate these bikes are going up I’d place 1k on it



Thank you for the information - not sure, but think  I will keep it and  start my first bike  collection


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## CharlesNichols (Jan 2, 2018)

barnyguey said:


> Howdy! I really like the bike! Any chance in getting a more clear photo of the badge? Thanks, Barry



Here is what I could do - I get a lot of glare


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## rustjunkie (Jan 2, 2018)

Check this:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/krolls-royce-photo-of-original-bike.107025/





https://www.leagle.com/decision/1942621126f2d4951447


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## barneyguey (Jan 2, 2018)

CharlesNichols said:


> Here is what I could do - I get a lot of glare
> 
> View attachment 732152
> 
> View attachment 732153



Thanks for the photo sir! Have a happy New Year! Barry

Sent from my SM-G530T using Tapatalk


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## bike (Jan 2, 2018)

I say no rolls royce - westfield most likely but I sold a stem like that for 1400


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## redline1968 (Jan 2, 2018)

I understand it’s the discovery and excitement part of having the bike. And it is Nice to keep the part.. but when the time comes it’s  just it’s gonna cost at least 10 k to get the rest of it if you find one...  :0... your bike looks like a colson product.. the use if the RR badge to promote sales.. not the brand of the famed car maker..


CharlesNichols said:


> Thank you for the information - not sure, but think  I will keep it and  start my first bike  collection


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