# Has anybody recovered a seat in original oilcloth?



## jpromo (Apr 5, 2014)

Despite our wishes, most saddles from the mid-30s onward are not actually leather, but a type of oilcloth (the material commonly associated with tablecloths). Restored seats I've seen are always real leather.

I was just wondering if anybody has used original style material to recover a seat? Also if there are any disadvantages or difficulties with it? I can imagine it would be harder to make a taut fit since oilcloth doesn't give like leather does. I think It'd be easier to stitch. Stampings may be more difficult though.


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## Freqman1 (Apr 8, 2014)

I don't think any of the seat folks do this. I think the problem is there is no source for the material. V/r Shawn


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## frankster41 (Apr 8, 2014)

Isn't that what they make those long duster jackets out of? 
Oil skin duster's I think they are called.


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## DJ Bill (Apr 8, 2014)

In the classic jeep world we have been trying to source the original greenish grey oilcloth for the seats for a long time with no success...so I have a feeling it is not available in any color.


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## jpromo (Apr 8, 2014)

frankster41 said:


> Isn't that what they make those long duster jackets out of?
> Oil skin duster's I think they are called.




Yeah, them Aussie jackets!

Modern tablecloths will be PVC and would always retain a certain glossiness that may not look quite right, although they're available with the right pattern. True oilcloth or waxed cloth would gain patina and a natural looking finish.

Looking closely at my saddles, some have a thatch pattern that is obviously cotton treated some which way. Then some have a cracklature impression and I have no idea what materials would have produced that.

Best I've found for a source with a little bit of searching would be something from here: http://www.britishmillerain.com/products/apparel-accessories

Then there's a woman on etsy who says she found a source most like the Australian fabrics. Too bad it doesn't seem she has it in black: http://www.etsy.com/listing/94030367/ashen-grey-swatch-med-weight-waxed


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## SirMike1983 (Apr 8, 2014)

I don't see advantages to oil cloth other than originality for some seats. A good piece of leather of the right thickness will last longer if maintained correctly, will wear better when riding, and be more readily available in the marketplace. My material of choice for seats is a good piece of automotive upholstery leather. You can get sheets of it for a decent price if you look for scrap overage from bulk sellers.


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## frankster41 (Apr 8, 2014)

Look on ebay for a cheap black duster and cut it up and use that.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk


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## bricycle (Apr 8, 2014)

frankster41 said:


> Look on ebay for a cheap black duster and cut it up and use that.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk




...a 340 Duster or a 360 Duster? Also, will a Demon work equally as well?


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## Freqman1 (Apr 8, 2014)

SirMike1983 said:


> I don't see advantages to oil cloth other than originality for some seats. A good piece of leather of the right thickness will last longer if maintained correctly, will wear better when riding, and be more readily available in the marketplace. My material of choice for seats is a good piece of automotive upholstery leather. You can get sheets of it for a decent price if you look for scrap overage from bulk sellers.




I think the point here is trying to go for originality. If a bike was originally equipped with an oil cloth seat and you use leather then technically it isn't restored although to 98% of us this would be acceptable since the original material isn't available. V/r Shawn


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## jpromo (Apr 8, 2014)

Freqman1 said:


> I think the point here is trying to go for originality. If a bike was originally equipped with an oil cloth seat and you use leather then technically it isn't restored although to 98% of us this would be acceptable since the original material isn't available. V/r Shawn




It's quite acceptable as a restoration to me as well! I'm just thinking that any seat I'd personally recover would be for an original patina bicycle. The duller finish and look would be more of an appropriate fit.

I thought it'd be an interesting and helpful conversation to have since I've never seen it discussed.


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## tbone (Apr 8, 2014)

is this what you mean by oil cloth?


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## bikewhorder (Apr 8, 2014)

tbone said:


> is this what you mean by oil cloth?
> 
> View attachment 146018




No that's just the layer of cloth that you would find _under_ the oil cloth.  Its like an early vinyl. There's a thin black coating over the cloth. This is an Oil cloth saddle http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/album.php?albumid=690&attachmentid=33439


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## Andrew Gorman (Apr 8, 2014)

Unfortunately, old fashioned oilcloth or Fabrikoid is just not made anymore.  Waterproof "oilcloth" is just wax impregnated cotton, and the "oilcloth" for table covers is just shiny vinyl. the stuff needed is fabric with either a cooked-in skin of linoleum or nitrocellulose.  From burning bits of original fake leather saddles I think most of it was Fabrikoid, at least in the 1920s and 30s. Here is a tiny bit of information on the stuff:
http://www2.dupont.com/Heritage/en_US/1910_dupont/1910_overview.html


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## bricycle (Apr 8, 2014)

Any antique Aircraft restorers use that for old plane seats, bags, gear?


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## bricycle (Apr 8, 2014)

How about covering with a strong high thread count fabric and then spraying finished saddle top with black weather strip/trim flex coat? dries matt and not sticky. I spray it on old dry grips, and makes them look like new.


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## filmonger (Apr 8, 2014)

This lady may be able to help.

http://www.oilclothbytheyard.com/pages/about-us

Also you might consider a vintage spare tire cover made out of fabrikiod - here is a link to a site ... Like the cabe where these guys wheel & deal ( sorry for the pun )

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/280977.html?1333956998

These guys may also help

http://www.buckeyefabric.com

http://www.lebaronbonney.com/webcatalogs/fabric/files/mobile/index.html#1

Interesting vintage article on the material in question..... 

https://archive.org/stream/fabrikoidimprove00dupo/fabrikoidimprove00dupo_djvu.txt


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## Iverider (Apr 8, 2014)

Quick google search yielded this dumb idea.

https://www.asseenontv.com/detail.php?p=294673&product=liquid-leather


But maybe this stuff would be better?

http://www.hollanders.com/index.php/sample-book-imitation-leather.html


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## bricycle (Apr 8, 2014)

filmonger said:


> This lady may be able to help.
> 
> http://www.oilclothbytheyard.com/pages/about-us
> 
> ...




oilclothbytheyard has it in solid / black too!!!!


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## jpromo (Apr 8, 2014)

Andrew Gorman said:


> Unfortunately, old fashioned oilcloth or Fabrikoid is just not made anymore.  Waterproof "oilcloth" is just wax impregnated cotton, and the "oilcloth" for table covers is just shiny vinyl. the stuff needed is fabric with either a cooked-in skin of linoleum or nitrocellulose.  From burning bits of original fake leather saddles I think most of it was Fabrikoid, at least in the 1920s and 30s. Here is a tiny bit of information on the stuff:
> http://www2.dupont.com/Heritage/en_US/1910_dupont/1910_overview.html




Awesome information! Having the right name for it definitely helps.


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## jpromo (Apr 8, 2014)

Krautwaggen said:


> But maybe this stuff would be better?
> 
> http://www.hollanders.com/index.php/sample-book-imitation-leather.html




Nice call; that looks like a strong maybe. I might order that sample swatch. It says its good for being embossed too, so that's a plus. Then I'd have to get some maker stamps..


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## jpromo (Apr 9, 2014)

So I ordered that sample swatch only to realize that I know the Hollander's shop.. it's 15 minutes from me in Ann Arbor. I'll update once I get the swatch or head out there.


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## SirMike1983 (Apr 9, 2014)

Freqman1 said:


> I think the point here is trying to go for originality. If a bike was originally equipped with an oil cloth seat and you use leather then technically it isn't restored although to 98% of us this would be acceptable since the original material isn't available. V/r Shawn




If originality is the main thing, then you would need the best approximation you could get. A good, imitation leather might be the closest available. I've done some looking at seat covering materials for both originality and durability, and I have to say I never located something that quite met both standards. I was  unhappy with the imitation leather coverings I came across, though I will admit I didn't pursue every lead online. I mostly checked locally at various fabric stores and tailor's shops.  I went with car upholstery leather because it looked close to original, was durable, available, cost effective, and comfortable. There may be an imitation leather out there that does the same thing, but I didn't come across it when I was looking. It may be possible to have a fabric maker produce the original type cloth in limited batches, but it might get pretty costly.


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## jpromo (Apr 13, 2014)

Alright, so that sample swatch has arrived and there are three veritable options for black. The first two have the perfect texture appearance. I've noticed both of these textures on various seats. One is more of a thatch with some crackles and the other is pure cracklature. These two samples don't really have the suppleness I think is necessary to make a taut fit, they're more like a couple crisp dollar bills stacked, but they may be able to get softened up with some steam or something prior to wrapping. The third is more of what I was thinking as far as malleability but the textured imprint is a little finer than ideal. This third one is a different base material and feels more like imitation automotive leather.

I shall do some experimenting and maybe buy a sheet and give it a go. What about padding? The first seat I'm thinking of doing has like a thick wool padding. Sources for something like this?


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## sam (Apr 14, 2014)

Get a 1x12 pine board,turn the oven on broil high, heat the samples for 15 secs and see how they do. That's the way I cover seats.


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## Capt Nemo (Apr 16, 2014)

*Interested...*

...in how it turns out.


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## jpromo (Apr 16, 2014)

Capt Nemo said:


> ...in how it turns out.




You and me both! I think I'll first try a pinch plate seat on my snap tank project. It won't be a restore, just a recover. I'll probably run out to the material shop this weekend and give it a go in the next week.

I'm thinking to use carpet padding underneath. The old wool stuff.


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## TexasJeff2855 (Apr 29, 2014)

*Goodwill Store*



My local goodwill store is loaded with used leather jackets and skirts that have the perfect aged use for bicycle seats.  It's not oil cloth, but works for me.


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## FloridaRust (May 7, 2014)

*Homemade oilcloth*

Just seen this and I been making home made oil cloth for 10 years of my 21 (Me being born into the classics) Age 22 atm,  
Oil cloth recipe for seat recovery :
Painters drop cloth which is cotton - Make sure it is the finally tight weave
Mineral spirits 
Boiled Linseed oil
(Black)Latex paint/ red-food coloring(Base Color)
1)Prepare your cloth with a hot soak and allow to dry to tighten up the weave/ Use the coloring with the soak
2)Roll on the paint on the cloth and let dry in sun
3) Mix your Mineral Spirits and Boiled Linseed oil 50/50 for proper dry time. If not the Linseed oil will just be sticky
4)Take a brush and lay on the cloth the mixed oil and MAKE SURE you have it hanging or out flat. No folding or you risk it burn up the whole entire
cloth and having to pay another 20 dollars for a 12x12 cloth.
5.Apply 2 additional coats to the cloth (1 a day) and let it stand out side in the sun. Let the smell also disperse 
6 Once this is now done you are able to use it for the recovery of the seat.
This method been passed down from my family generation when my great grandfather worked with H.A. Lozier & Co. 
Its kinda a honor to still be using this method but the base color changed over time and been lost through some generation...


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## bricycle (May 7, 2014)

FloridaRust said:


> Just seen this and I been making home made oil cloth for 10 years of my 21 (Me being born into the classics) Age 22 atm,
> Oil cloth recipe for seat recovery :
> Painters drop cloth which is cotton - Make sure it is the finally tight weave
> Mineral spirits
> ...




Huh...kool, thanks!


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## jpromo (May 7, 2014)

FloridaRust said:


> Just seen this and I been making home made oil cloth for 10 years of my 21 (Me being born into the classics) Age 22 atm,
> Oil cloth recipe for seat recovery :
> Painters drop cloth which is cotton - Make sure it is the finally tight weave
> Mineral spirits
> ...




Okay--this is awesome. I'mma send you a PM.


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## FloridaRust (May 7, 2014)

This is a old rough cut diagram ill use to demonstrate the process.Here is the latex applied, Since I got a mirrored hotplate my cure time will be a we bit faster. Just got to be careful lol




Here is the 1st applied oil mixture


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## FloridaRust (May 7, 2014)

Here are the rough idea of what is looks like finished on a saddle. Note the one on the old saddles the latex they used was a lot thicker which gave it a shine. But its handed down to me to pass onto the next person  Hope this helped out. this is the 3rd coat (Note sorry for pictures being off, Im having to take them on my phone so results are off)


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## FloridaRust (May 9, 2014)

Here is a white oilcloth I did but still is the progress stages. This is just a example of my work  ( Note this is taking on my cell so pics are rough)


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## TJW (Dec 21, 2015)

In case anyone is interested, I used linseed oil to refresh a very worn prewar oilcloth seat cover.  The cover was in such poor condition that I was afraid that it might split and come completely apart if I rode on it.

Pictures of seat in its original condition:










Pictures of seat after applying many, many coats of Winsor and Newton refined linseed oil (with some black paint mixed in










I didn't notice much odor from the Winsor and Newton linseed oil and it dried very quickly.

The cover now seems much stronger.  The seat is very comfortable when ridden and the cover seems to be holding up nicely (at least so far).  And it still sort of matches the patina of my very original 41 autocycle.

P.S.  I used Marvel Mystery oil to give a nice sheen to what is left of the original paint and primer.


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## partsguy (Dec 22, 2015)

frankster41 said:


> Look on ebay for a cheap black duster and cut it up and use that.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk






bricycle said:


> ...a 340 Duster or a 360 Duster? Also, will a Demon work equally as well?





These had me rolling!! "Cheap Black Duster" sounds pretty raunchy too...


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## OldHarley (Dec 26, 2015)

_"Look on ebay for a cheap black duster and cut it up and use that."

"...a 340 Duster or a 360 Duster? Also, will a Demon work equally as well?"_

_"...these had me rolling!! "Cheap Black Duster" sounds pretty raunchy too..."_

FYI, even the black ones are not so cheap these days!  The 360's go for like 30 grand!  Also, I would really hate to see one cut up as well!





OH


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## Herman (Jan 2, 2016)

You may want to check out some local Civil War re-enactors and look at their haversacks and I'm sure they could recomend a good "sutler" that would sell you a yard or two of fabric


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