# Trying to figure out what I've got - any assistance/opinions appreciated.



## sykerocker (Oct 23, 2021)

Earlier this week I took a trip up to Washington, DC to pick up a couple of bicycles from a 17th century re-enactor friend of mine.  The first is no big deal, I definitely know what I've got:






A late 60's/early 70's AMF Roadmaster Skyrider (reflectors in the pedals, no BMA/6 sticker).  That'll be a usual teardown, cleanup, new tires, and hopefully I can pull enough money for it to cover the cost of the tires.

It's the other bike that has me completely in the dark.  I've messed a bit with pre-WWII bicycles in the past, but they've invariably been British, which means they weren't that much different from what I've been working on over the past fifty years.  This one is American, and it's definitely like nothing I've wrenched before.  In fact, I wasn't even sure what group it should go in, until I figured out it has those 28x1-1/2 in tires that remind me a whole lot of the sewups I've been riding for the past fifty years (yes, the fork is bent - first project).  So, I stuck it here:





A few more detailed shots:





Yep, no head badge of any kind, nor do there seem to be mounting holes from where a head badge was previously mounted.





Good old New Departure Model D coaster brake.  Skip tooth chain, of course.





Serial number appears to be 481601.





Tire size (does anyone make these anymore? - not that I'm necessarily planning on replacing them).





And to finish, a detail shot of the worst part of the bike.  How I'm going to get that off the bike without having a snowfall of paint chips and a bare metal fender at the end is currently beyond me.

My plans, as they currently stand:  Take the bike apart, clean everything as best as possible, save the finish as well as possible, straighten out the fork, put it back together and hopefully take it to the Westminster, MD swap meet next February for either sale or trade.  I have no interest in trying to ride it, thus my comment about not necessarily replacing the tires (although if replacements are available, and aren't too dear, I'll consider replacing them).  But first I'd love to know what it is I've got.  (And if anyone cares to venture a guess as to market value, both in it's current condition, and after, based on a competent cleanup and polish, I'd be appreciative.  My total experience with this vintage of bicycle is the threads I've been perusing here since I joined.). I'm very glad I did that post-WWII forties Rollfast previously, as it gave me some experience before tackling this one.

Thank you.


----------



## Archie Sturmer (Oct 23, 2021)

The girls bike might be an *Emblem* Angola NY product.  One picture shows the wide 2” offset for the non-standard crank drive pin.  The 6-digits serial numbers stamping is also consistent with Emblem.
Sometimes Canadian A-archive catalogs show examples of that chain ring sprocket pattern; (perhaps fewer teeth for ladies).
https://archive.org/details/eatons191700eatouoft/page/n289/
Emblem head badges had fairly wide space horizontally between the fastening holes.

The *value* might be in the non-standard crankset parts, for which a collector may be interested in, for use a more-collectible men’s Emblem bicycle, with worn-out or missing bottom bracket bearings and cones, needing replacement.
(Perhaps similar for the headset?).

And then there are some Miami collectors who might see the chain ring sprocket as similar to the Flying Merkel?


----------



## sykerocker (Oct 25, 2021)

Thanks for the information.  With that for starters I've got a few more questions:

Care to make any guesses as to roughly how old the bike is?  

Are tires of this type available anymore?  If so, what's the usual supplier?

Of course, guesses on the value are appreciated . . . if only to ensure I don't look like a complete idiot when I put this on the market.

Anyone out there have experience with bending forks of this type?  I've done Schwinn Varsity (etc.) forks in the past, so that's my experience.  I definitely intend to take restoration as far as I can go, if for no other reason than the learning experience of restoring something of this vintage.  Of course, I'm slightly disappointed that it's not particularly valuable (not that I'm foolish enough to assume that anything that would fall in my lap like this would be), but on the other hand I'm not as jumpy to work on it.


----------



## New Mexico Brant (Oct 25, 2021)

The bike is from the 1920's.
Sadly the black over paint kills it as a collector bike as there are many original paint girls examples around from this time period.  Hence, the value is going to be the sum of the parts.  I am seeing the most value in the drop stand and clip and the single tube tire set.  Those tires look to be in perfect "display condition."  As Phil states above there is value in other bits as well.
You can still buy single tube tires from Robert Dean at $300+ a pair; or Universal display tires.  It would be idiotic to buy such tires for this bike.
Blowing this apart to reap every last penny is hard work.  That must be considered when considering what to sell this for.  If someone offered this to me "as is" for $350 I would walk away...  Nothing you can do to it will add value; just sell or trade it the way she sits.


----------



## sykerocker (Oct 25, 2021)

Thank you.  I had a feeling from Archie Sturmer's reply that's what I was facing.

I'm still tempted to take it apart and clean it up, if only for the learning experience (the oldest bike I've worked on up to this point was a 1938 Humber roadster, which was lost in the shop fire while I had it 75% done), doing what I can while only putting labor into the effort.


----------



## Archie Sturmer (Oct 25, 2021)

An option might be to make an economical and safe *rider* out of the frame, mixing old parts with new; but that might be a better subject for a rat rod or custom-build forum.

The wheels look like they might hold some air, perhaps because of being a girls bike.  Normally, I do not look at wood wheels, but others do.  You might sell the wood wheels and buy some new or used aluminum 700c (622mm) 28” wheels, tires & tubes.

Perhaps sell the 28” drop stand and hook; and replace with a reliable Wald 26-27” kick stand.  Similar for economical Wald seat posts, stems and handle bars.

The complete (but proprietary) crankset with bottom bracket hardware could also be replaced with a standard one with modern 1/2” pitch chain and sprockets.

The front forks (with headset) might be left to buyers with the right tools, and replaced with a 28” economy fork.

Not sure at all if such project could be cost neutral; might stretch one’s abilities to sell high and buy low.


----------



## Alan Brase (Oct 31, 2021)

sykerocker said:


> Thanks for the information.  With that for starters I've got a few more questions:
> 
> Care to make any guesses as to roughly how old the bike is?
> 
> ...



I cannot say I have actually straightened a bent fork, but I'd done LOTS of metal straightening on autos. And I almost always prefer to use some heat. Any bending of metal will induce localized work hardening. (straighten a paper clip, then try to reform it to the perfect image of a paper clip, to understand what I mean.) both the paper clip and fork are mild steel. It should be heated to red hot then, pushed with rounded dies and a press.  A hand operated mandrel (Dake) press will give excellent control. I'd construct a  tin heat shield with a hole to keep the flame off the painted surface. Maybe even cover the painted surface with a wet rag. You'll need OXY- fuel probably, like propane or MAPP and oxygen.
Now I wish somebody could help me straighten the bent top (and down) tubes on my 1946 original paint Schwinn Continental!


----------



## razinhellcustomz (Oct 31, 2021)

sykerocker said:


> Earlier this week I took a trip up to Washington, DC to pick up a couple of bicycles from a 17th century re-enactor friend of mine.  The first is no big deal, I definitely know what I've got:
> 
> View attachment 1500730
> 
> ...



nice Skyrider bike.. I have several of these.. nice sturdy bikes... Razin..


----------



## sykerocker (Nov 6, 2021)

razinhellcustomz said:


> nice Skyrider bike.. I have several of these.. nice sturdy bikes... Razin..



Got the Skyrider finished, it cleaned up very quickly and nicely.  Was very pleasantly surprised on the condition of the wheels, chrome is still perfect.  Rear wheel could use a serious truing, as, of course, I can't find the 26 x 1.75 hard sidewall tires locally, had to go with a set of 26 x 1.95 (50-559) cruiser tires which barely clear the rear stays.  Which means I get an occasional tire rub. so I'm going to have to give the rear wheel a serious lightweight road bike-style truing.

Not sure what I'll do with it.  Tires ended up running me $50.00, which is realistically about what the bike would sell on the local market. The wife's claiming interest in riding it, so I may just keep it for her.


----------



## Archie Sturmer (Nov 6, 2021)

Sometimes a couple of extra chain links, or a special hybrid “*half*-*link*” can add a fraction of extra tire clearance; but other times merely transfers a clearance problem from the stays to the fenders or braces.


----------



## bikewhorder (Nov 11, 2021)

Alan Brase said:


> I cannot say I have actually straightened a bent fork, but I'd done LOTS of metal straightening on autos. And I almost always prefer to use some heat. Any bending of metal will induce localized work hardening. (straighten a paper clip, then try to reform it to the perfect image of a paper clip, to understand what I mean.) both the paper clip and fork are mild steel. It should be heated to red hot then, pushed with rounded dies and a press.  A hand operated mandrel (Dake) press will give excellent control. I'd construct a  tin heat shield with a hole to keep the flame off the painted surface. Maybe even cover the painted surface with a wet rag. You'll need OXY- fuel probably, like propane or MAPP and oxygen.
> Now I wish somebody could help me straighten the bent top (and down) tubes on my 1946 original paint Schwinn Continental!



 While I understand the science behind the metal working you mention above I promise you you are way over thinking it.  Most of these old forks bend bent alarmingly easily so they're probably was not much heat hardening going on when this incident happened. I've bent back plenty of forks. Here's a little tutorial I did almost a decade ago now. 









						Low Tech Fork Straightening | Bicycle Restoration Tips
					

So this is the method I use to straighten a bent fork,  It literally takes about 5 minutes. The black tube I'm using here is part of a floor jack handle.Most of the bent forks I've encountered are bent @ the steering tube and these are the easiest to fix The tube is slid down to where the bend...




					thecabe.com


----------



## Archie Sturmer (Nov 11, 2021)

I have seen some practically irreparable forks that looked like the simple little brut or equivalent would have worked, if tried; but instead the messed up forks showed evidence of being torched.
To me, heating and bending one fork leg/arm at a time, seems like a hard way to go.








						What bike did you work on today? | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

Good afternoon Caber’s!   After many hours of work and a newly acquired saw I have finally won the war with the seat post in my 1940 dx! I bought this jab saw on eBay and it worked well ( I was to afraid to use my saws all ) ! Lmao! I cut the seat post on the inside in two places and still had...




					thecabe.com
				




The Emblem forks pictured look like the simplest repair methods would be best.


----------



## bikefanatic (Dec 15, 2021)

looks similar to this bike, maybe it’s a Henderson?


----------



## sykerocker (Dec 15, 2021)

Damn, that is close?  Are we talking Twenties?


----------

