# prewar Schwinn Serial



## 37fleetwood

Ok, so I've heard that someone has or is working on a prewar serial chart, where is it?
I have a frame with this serial number, F45028 what is the best guess on a date for it. frame characteristics lead me to either 1940 or 1941 but I'd like to get closer if I can as there are a few differences between the two years.


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## REC

37fleetwood said:


> Ok, so I've heard that someone has or is working on a prewar serial chart, where is it?
> I have a frame with this serial number, F45628 what is the best guess on a date for it. frame characteristics lead me to either 1940 or 1941 but I'd like to get closer if I can as there a few differences between the two years.




Scott,
This goes in between two on my list, however one is a 40 and begins with E, the other is a 41 with a G. Can you post a photo of it?

Thanks
REC


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## 37fleetwood

so I went out and took a photo or two, I wanted to wait til I had it a bit better put together. please don't be too critical... at least it's a Schwinn...


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## Dave K

Looks very 1940 to me


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## 37fleetwood

Dave K said:


> Looks very 1940 to me



Thanks Dave. what are you basing this on?


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## Ozark Flyer

Did you pull the crank?  My serial number E..... had "40" stamped on the crank.  I would guess yours would be also.


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## 37fleetwood

the crank is off the bike that the fenders came from


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## Dave K

37fleetwood said:


> Thanks Dave. what are you basing this on?



\

I was basing it on the fenders and chain guard but just realized those parts are from the parts you got from ebay.  I believe I have heard people say there is a difference in the curve of the down tube between 40 and 41s but I just don't know them well enough to know the difference


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## Dave K

Here are some pictures with my 40 (with a 41 paint tank) in the back ground if it is any help.  Sorry I don't have any pictures with it centered in the frame


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## 37fleetwood

Dave K said:


> Here are some pictures with my 40 (with a 41 paint tank) in the back ground if it is any help.  Sorry I don't have any pictures with it centered in the frame



I'm noticing yours has the 1941 frame paint scheme too. the 1940 catalog shows simple darts, or is that just part of the model?

1940





1941


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## Dave K

37fleetwood said:


> I'm noticing yours has the 1941 frame paint scheme too. the 1940 catalog shows simple darts, or is that just part of the model?
> 
> 1940
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1941





I don't know what the story is with the frame paint.  I guess it is possible that my bike was a 41 with the skinny fenders and cheapo chain guard because it was originally the bottom of the line strip down model that I added the tank rack and light to it.


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## REC

A thought occurred just now - I went back and looked to see if there were any "F" numbers on the left side of the list (Cycle-Trucks), and there is one there, approx 10000 frames earlier. It is marked as a 40, so the 40 thought there may be right. 

Thinking about it, I may move the CTs over into the other list, but I've kept them seperated all along for ease of access. 
Thanks,
REC

PS: Dave K, would you let me add yours to the list?
Thanks,
REC


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## PCHiggin

*Cool DX*

I like the curved lower tube


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## Ozark Flyer

The curve of the top end of the down tube looks to me to be straight for the first 9" or so looking like the 40 frame rather than the 41 which has a very gentle curve to the top 9".  F serial number plus the frame style has me thinking 1940.


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## Balloontyre

*Paint Scheme Confusion*



37fleetwood said:


> I'm noticing yours has the 1941 frame paint scheme too. the 1940 catalog shows simple darts, or is that just part of the model?
> 
> 1940
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1941





OG bike in queue for resto, possibly a Deluxe DX?  I may leave the 48 star flag, kinda retro-patriotic. 

 This paint scheme was keeping me guessing as to the year, I haven't found this combination paint scheme in print yet. Tank scheme looks earlier.
 I've heard another way to identify the year is by the seat post clamp, maybe some one can post this detail for clarification.  
Serial # I'm told is 1940


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## Larmo63

Which war?

Wait......what year again???


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## Dave K

Balloontyre said:


> OG bike in queue for resto, possibly a Deluxe DX?  I may leave the 48 star flag, kinda retro-patriotic.
> 
> This paint scheme was keeping me guessing as to the year, I haven't found this combination paint scheme in print yet. Tank scheme looks earlier.
> I've heard another way to identify the year is by the seat post clamp, maybe some one can post this detail for clarification.
> Serial # I'm told is 1940




Is the chain guard chrome?  I highly suspect that bike is a 41.  Have seen one early post war DX in ordinal paint with the early style feather (like yours) so I know they used them in 41

You are not planning to repaint that are you?


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## 37fleetwood

Dave K said:


> Is the chain guard chrome?  I highly suspect that bike is a 41.  Have seen one early post war DX in ordinal paint with the early style feather (like yours) so I know they used them in 41
> 
> You are not planning to repaint that are you?



this one is an E, if this one is a 1941 then mine would be later than it...


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## Balloontyre

Dave K said:


> Is the chain guard chrome?  I highly suspect that bike is a 41.  Have seen one early post war DX in ordinal paint with the early style feather (like yours) so I know they used them in 41
> 
> You are not planning to repaint that are you?




Dave K,
40/41? what is making you say 41?  Do you have info on the seat clamp differences?

Chain guard is chrome, locking springer with key, chrome drop centers, signs of previous rear carrier and drop stand. (which I'm looking for) any help?
  This one has been preserved nicely in high quality dust I'll do an overhaul and detailing only. The paint is fantastic, color of choice for me, painting it would be vandalism.
Ivo


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## REC

Dave K said:


> Here are some pictures with my 40 (with a 41 paint tank) in the back ground if it is any help.  Sorry I don't have any pictures with it centered in the frame




Dave,

Is it possible that I could add your bikes to the serial number list I'm working on? The more I can get - the better! If they are documentable it helps even more.

Thanks,
REC


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## 37fleetwood

feel free to add mine, but it may not really be too helpful. I learned in the Huffman serial project, a frame and serial without context doesn't tell you much. I'm going with 1940 but still, there are no hard facts to support it.


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## Dave K

Balloontyre said:


> Dave K,
> 40/41? what is making you say 41?  Do you have info on the seat clamp differences?
> 
> Chain guard is chrome, locking springer with key, chrome drop centers, signs of previous rear carrier and drop stand. (which I'm looking for) any help?
> This one has been preserved nicely in high quality dust I'll do an overhaul and detailing only. The paint is fantastic, color of choice for me, painting it would be vandalism.
> Ivo





The three things that made me think 41 were the feather chain guard the frame paint (most 40 have spears) and the white tips on the fenders.  Now I am not so sure if it is a 40 or a 41 I had never seen a 40 DX with the feather but then again I have never till now seen a DX with a chrome chain guard but this one has it.   In the past I always thought 40 bikes have the skinner fenders and the DX hockey stick guard and the 41 bikes have the deep fat fenders and the feather guard but as always it is not that simple and there are really no rules with prewar Schwinns.  I think the no rules thing applies double to DXs because they are the bottom of the line bike and got what ever parts were left over

Your DX is so so cool.  I would not think of taking the added decals off I really think it makes the bike.  I can just see some kid back in the 1940s tricking out his bike with the cool decals!!!


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## Dave K

REC said:


> Dave,
> 
> Is it possible that I could add your bikes to the serial number list I'm working on? The more I can get - the better! If they are documentable it helps even more.
> 
> Thanks,
> REC




Yes but I have no idea what the number is because I never looked at it.  I will be getting the bike out in the next few weeks to do some work to it and will take some better pictures and check the number when I do


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## REC

Dave K said:


> Yes but I have no idea what the number is because I never looked at it.  I will be getting the bike out in the next few weeks to do some work to it and will take some better pictures and check the number when I do




Thanks, I'll be watchin'!
REC


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## sstone

*the saddle?*

Can you tell me where you got the saddle or what brand it is?  I've been looking for something like it, but don't want to invest in a Brooks, etc.

Thx


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## 37fleetwood

sstone said:


> Can you tell me where you got the saddle or what brand it is?  I've been looking for something like it, but don't want to invest in a Brooks, etc.
> 
> Thx



who are you asking?


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## BWbiker

*Prewar Scwhinn ser# F*



37fleetwood said:


> Ok, so I've heard that someone has or is working on a prewar serial chart, where is it?
> I have a frame with this serial number, F45028 what is the best guess on a date for it. frame characteristics lead me to either 1940 or 1941 but I'd like to get closer if I can as there are a few differences between the two years.



Scott, '40 cuts off at E53499, and '41 starts at E53500 and runs through H according to the list I have. 

 Brad


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## GenuineRides

Please don't make the ASSumption that on 12/31/1940 that Schwinn cleaned out all of it's parts bins and switched over all the models to the "new " styles.  For anyone who has worked in manufacturing knows that quite a bit of overlap occurs, weeks and even months, especially if Schwinn had contracts with outside vendors for parts that were constantly being shipped in.  Engineering changes are implemented in stages to tweek during production (called running changes and considered part of constant improvement).  And frames were welded and stamped much earlier than when the actuall bike rolled off the assembly line and was "born".  Think about it, painting had to occur, and curing (they didn't have powdercoat bake ovens then), decaling, parts assembly, packaging, warehouse and staging, then order pulling and master packing, shipping, uncrating and final assembly at the store.  Plus the store was in business to upsell the customer and fancier assessories, maybe even the next year's new item might get to the store before last years serial numbered bike hit the showroom floor.  This whole process could add months to the date it was actually stamped.  Serial numbers are generalizations, model year parts overlapped, kids switched out broken items, the local Schwinn shop personalized bikes to upsell...all factors to take into account.


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## BWbiker

GenuineRides said:


> Please don't make the ASSumption that on 12/31/1940 that Schwinn cleaned out all of it's parts bins and switched over all the models to the "new " styles.  For anyone who has worked in manufacturing knows that quite a bit of overlap occurs, weeks and even months, especially if Schwinn had contracts with outside vendors for parts that were constantly being shipped in.  Engineering changes are implemented in stages to tweek during production (called running changes and considered part of constant improvement).  And frames were welded and stamped much earlier than when the actuall bike rolled off the assembly line and was "born".  Think about it, painting had to occur, and curing (they didn't have powdercoat bake ovens then), decaling, parts assembly, packaging, warehouse and staging, then order pulling and master packing, shipping, uncrating and final assembly at the store.  Plus the store was in business to upsell the customer and fancier assessories, maybe even the next year's new item might get to the store before last years serial numbered bike hit the showroom floor.  This whole process could add months to the date it was actually stamped.  Serial numbers are generalizations, model year parts overlapped, kids switched out broken items, the local Schwinn shop personalized bikes to upsell...all factors to take into account.



I use the list I have as a guideline. For instance I have two ser# T's which are called out as '38's on this list, one mens bike and one ladies. Both have a mix of '37 and '38 catalog parts. You could venture a guess they may be late '37 manufactured bikes for the '38 market or not.


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## Dave K

REC said:


> Dave,
> 
> Is it possible that I could add your bikes to the serial number list I'm working on? The more I can get - the better! If they are documentable it helps even more.
> 
> Thanks,
> REC




Here are some pictures of the bike and the serial number.  This bike was originally non equipped and I added the tank rack and headlight.  I suspect this bike might have had the early tank paint if it had had a been equipped


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## REC

Dave K said:


> Here are some pictures of the bike and the serial number.  This bike was originally non equipped and I added the tank rack and headlight.  I suspect this bike might have had the early tank paint if it had had a been equipped




Dave,
Nice one!  What badge is it wearing?

REC


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## Balloontyre

*1940 dx*



Dave K said:


> The three things that made me think 41 were the feather chain guard the frame paint (most 40 have spears) and the white tips on the fenders.  Now I am not so sure if it is a 40 or a 41 I had never seen a 40 DX with the feather but then again I have never till now seen a DX with a chrome chain guard but this one has it.   In the past I always thought 40 bikes have the skinner fenders and the DX hockey stick guard and the 41 bikes have the deep fat fenders and the feather guard but as always it is not that simple and there are really no rules with prewar Schwinns.  I think the no rules thing applies double to DXs because they are the bottom of the line bike and got what ever parts were left over
> 
> Your DX is so so cool.  I would not think of taking the added decals off I really think it makes the bike.  I can just see some kid back in the 1940s tricking out his bike with the cool decals!!!




Dave K,
Thanks man for the input, those reasons were the same that kept me guessing on the year. Several PM's came my way after this post about the serial# as 1940. Also the seat post thing and paint scheme, which apperantly are not to relevant to year just Schwinn urban legend. Hopefuly someone will ad more clarification with pictures, the apperance of the 2 different seat post clamps, which I'm told both variations were used in 1940. I also found several bikes with the frame paint as mine and yours claiming 1940, just not the same tank paint and frame combo yet.

This bike came from the original family estate just outside of Chicago, the seller claimed it a 1940 as well, he told me how his dad recieved it new for his 12th birthday. He remembers in the late 50's his dad would frequently ride him to grade school on the handle bars, and that's how the light broke off. It was a very emotional sale for him. 

Even though the DX's recieved many of the scraps, I'm grateful this bike got the good left overs. 

37fleetwood, I linked this discussion to a buddy of mine with prewar (WWII) serial number data, hopefully he will post his findings regarding the number.
Best,
Ivo


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## 37fleetwood

Thanks for all the input guys, it's a great read. I'm still not sure we're any closer to finding the line between 1940 and 1941. 
what is the possibility that the one list that has my "F" in 1941 is correct, and the other with the cycle trucks seems to be off because there was a production bump where cycletrucks were pushed out ahead of the regular production? by 1940 we were already knee deep into "Lend Lease" and production for most industries was ramping up. there would have been a pretty good demand for cycletrucks. it's something like that, or one of the lists is clearly off by a bit.
like so much of this stuff, we may never know.
I did go out and look at mine and the down tube does appear to be straight for the first several inches.


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## GenuineRides

I repeat...I don't beleive you can assign just one year to every bike from Schwinn.  Maybe if the frame was made in April of that year, and the parts were pulled and assembled in May, to the store in May or June and sold in June or July it will have dedicated "that year" parts.  But the x-mas push which started in August and September could muck things up for the end of the year, and the begining of the year could be flooded with last year parts stockpiled in the Schwinn factory from their suppliers to ensure production was pumping out everything they could.  There are no definitive lines...

I have spoken to a old Schwinn shop owner who actually worked at the shop he bought (as a kid before he purchased it), and this would have been in the 60's  (shop started in 1947 and the building is still there selling bikes).  He indicated that Schwinn would get their pre-orders for x-mas in before Sept 1st. and concurrently release new product to the dealers.  Many times the dealers would get different bikes that what they preordered because of inventory levels or "deals" on special slow moving stock.  This was the 60's and production was probably more refined by then, before in the 30's, 40's and 50's, the bicycle boom years, I'm sure it was more of a free for all.  I can imagine that September frames were showing up for x-mas with some next years parts just in time for x-mas.  Case in point, the Stingray Super Deluxe was introduced to the dealers for the first time mid-year 1964 in literature, so anyone who claims to have a December '63 SD is inaccurate, but some original frame have shown up from April, May, June etc.


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## 37fleetwood

I think what you're saying can be applied to all of the bike manufacturers. the year models were driven by Christmas sales. the 1941 year would have started like you say somewhere in September. they'd want kids to have time to see them and parents time to buy them for Christmas. the Firestone catalogs start the new year with the Fall Winter catalog for this reason.


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## Balloontyre

*Cross pollination*



GenuineRides said:


> I repeat...I don't beleive you can assign just one year to every bike from Schwinn.  Maybe if the frame was made in April of that year, and the parts were pulled and assembled in May, to the store in May or June and sold in June or July it will have dedicated "that year" parts.  But the x-mas push which started in August and September could muck things up for the end of the year, and the begining of the year could be flooded with last year parts stockpiled in the Schwinn factory from their suppliers to ensure production was pumping out everything they could.  There are no definitive lines...




Great point, most would agree and accept that equipment and accesories both pre and post date the "year model" across most bicycle makers. If no known accurate data base of serial numbers exsist for prewar schwinn how can a conclusive date be established? Most would agree the serial number of post 48 schwinn is the accepted year of bike. What method is most accepted in identifying the bikes pre 48? 
I'm interested to learn if there are differences between the frames of the 40 and 41 DX

Thank You

Ivo


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## REC

37fleetwood said:


> Thanks for all the input guys, it's a great read. I'm still not sure we're any closer to finding the line between 1940 and 1941.
> what is the possibility that the one list that has my "F" in 1941 is correct, and the other with the cycle trucks seems to be off because there was a production bump where cycletrucks were pushed out ahead of the regular production? by 1940 we were already knee deep into "Lend Lease" and production for most industries was ramping up. there would have been a pretty good demand for cycletrucks. it's something like that, or one of the lists is clearly off by a bit.
> like so much of this stuff, we may never know.
> I did go out and look at mine and the down tube does appear to be straight for the first several inches.




The Cycle-trucks I've seen so far carried serial numbers that remain within the sequence of standard serial numbers. While I've read a LOT of stuff stating they had seperate numbers, I've yet to see one with a special number. Age or production period based on parts that are on them, and other comments regarding changes on them, the "bump" would just be more of them within a specific sequence based on what I have seen.

Scott, your number is right in the area that could go either direction, but the fact remains that the Cycle-Truck your frame is sequentially 10K units above was a '40. The first documented 41 I show is a G070XX. 

I don't know exactly (does anyone?) when the split is, but the stuff I've posted is what's on my list. That does not make it an absolute! This list was started in March of '06 and has grown constantly since, not every number on it has been documented, but those that have been have helped to place the others.
Just tryin' to figure things out....
REC


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## sstone

*saddle*



37fleetwood said:


> who are you asking?




Fleetwood's 2nd post w/ photo on Feb 22 has a photo of his bike, but the saddle appears newer.


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## Xcelsior

*What??*



Dave K said:


> and there are really no rules with prewar Schwinns.  I think the no rules thing applies double to DXs because they are the bottom of the line bike and got what ever parts were left over
> 
> 
> 
> What does that mean??  That is so incorrect, it makes me sick. Yes they were lower priced models compared to their deluxe autocycle/motorbike counterparts, but they were never bottom of the lines bikes put together with whatever parts were left over.  They were a whole separate model of their own.  Less quality? Less parts? Lesser paint?  I think not.  In fact they have better looking paint schemes on them and less decals on the tank.  Oh yeah,  they had a tank, light , rack and you quessed it, some came with dual brakes.  Whats so bottom of the line about that?  I think you mean that the unequipped versions were lesser models.


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## 37fleetwood

sstone said:


> Fleetwood's 2nd post w/ photo on Feb 22 has a photo of his bike, but the saddle appears newer.



it's an old saddle, it's just been re-done by Bobcycles. it's an old Messenger.


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## Dave K

Xcelsior said:


> Dave K said:
> 
> 
> 
> and there are really no rules with prewar Schwinns.  I think the no rules thing applies double to DXs because they are the bottom of the line bike and got what ever parts were left over
> 
> 
> 
> What does that mean??  That is so incorrect, it makes me sick. Yes they were lower priced models compared to their deluxe autocycle/motorbike counterparts, but they were never bottom of the lines bikes put together with whatever parts were left over.  They were a whole separate model of their own.  Less quality? Less parts? Lesser paint?  I think not.  In fact they have better looking paint schemes on them and less decals on the tank.  Oh yeah,  they had a tank, light , rack and you quessed it, some came with dual brakes.  Whats so bottom of the line about that?  I think you mean that the unequipped versions were lesser models.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have found many early post war DX bikes with black war hub and prewar cranks (left over parts) and never or almost never see the left over parts being used on the more expensive models.  This leads me to believe the newest and best parts were used on the more expensive bikes but I am no expert just calling it like I see it.  And as far as I know they were the cheapest equipped bike Schwinn sold IE the bottom of the line.  I certainly am not dissing on the DX model because I really like them and have and still have many of them.
Click to expand...


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## bricycle

According to my list, E53500-H99999 with large evenly spaced digits is a 1941.


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## Xcelsior

*Slow down*

Hey Dave, the black outs were not left over parts, they were replacement for parts that could not be chromed at the time:.: hence wartime hubs.  And, they were used all across the board.  Look at the last few Pages of the schwinn catalog in 41 and you will see which bikes were still in production and which ones were discontinued and it will correct your theory.  Also, there were no better or newer parts, this model had it own parts and some were equipped better or more deluxe than others (dx's that is).  THEY WERE THEIR OWN MODEL!   Which brings up my next point about the serial number chart posted by Bri-   I would think by looking at your chart for 1941, when production of models were being discontinued, that it is a little strange if not funny how they ( again, looking at your chart) used up 4 letters to determine one freaking year.  Meaning E F G H and some say I ( we' ll get into that some other time) just for 1941.  I have seen a lot of orig prewar schwinn and have owned my share of the later 30s to 40 (and believe me I am not an expert) so I can tell you the when I say I have and had F dated 40s - it is true. And if e comes before F (at least i think it still does). Than E must be 40.  But again, I only go by WHAT I'VE SEEN.


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## Balloontyre

*Math Is Pretty Close*



bricycle said:


> According to my list, E53500-H99999 with large evenly spaced digits is a 1941.




Hey Bri, Thanks for the post, the span of digits on your list provides support to the production numbers for 1941 published on the attached article.


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## Xcelsior

*Serial chart*

This is what I go by which is from REAL EXAMPLES.  By that I mean dated cranks and certain tells from parts... Now, this  may not be accurate to some people but again, I am going by Real Examples of bicycles and not someone else's piece of paper.  I do not have accurate to the last freakin digit numbers but the leading letters are a pretty good register when YOU HAVE THE BICYCLE IN FRONT OF YOU.  PLEASE take this with a grain of salt.  Again, I am not telling you that you have to use this, it is just my records for
 ORIGINAL bicycles...

Serial appearance            Production.       Sales.   

Small / uniform.     Xyz          1937.             1938
Normal spacing.      A B.         1938.             1938
Normal.                 B C D.       1939.             1939
Normal.                 D E F.        1940.             1940
Normal.                F G H I.       1941.             1941
Normal.               I.             1942.  Thru and into early 46.

Again, if anyone feels this is incorrect, fine , don't go by it.  I trust one persons 30 years of experience putting together information and finding information from real unit examples , which I find and have found to be more accurate than any other list published by whoever.  And, if you want to get technical about it, cut a section out of the frame and get it analyzed. They can do it and it will tell you what year it was smelted and at which foundry/facility it was produced.


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## sstone

*saddle*



37fleetwood said:


> it's an old saddle, it's just been re-done by Bobcycles. it's an old Messenger.




It looks good, thanks


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## Balloontyre

*Add  " T "*



Xcelsior said:


> , it is just my records for
> ORIGINAL bicycles...
> 
> Serial appearance            Production.       Sales.
> 
> Small / uniform.     Xyz          1937.             1938
> Normal spacing.      A B.         1938.             1938
> Normal.                 B C D.       1939.             1939
> Normal.                 D E F.        1940.             1940
> Normal.                F G H I.       1941.             1941
> Normal.               I.             1942.  Thru and into early 46.
> 
> .




Just to add another letter to chart. 

This bike has AS 37 stamped on crank, handle bar horn button, 45 deg locking fork.


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## cyclingday

I've seen two original paint prewar cantilevers with the closely spaced small type that begin with the letter A.

 What is with that? They read like a late 37 but I have not ever heard of, or seen any other early alphabet small type canti's.

 All of the other small type numbered canti's (38 model) start around X  Pretty strange! I'm sure the production of cantilever frames started in 1937 for the 1938 model year, so maybe the first ones built got 1937 stampings.

 But, what happened to all of those other frames from B to V ?


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## VintageSchwinn.com

My coach green restored cantilever I had a few years ago was definitely a '37.  I always figured they were just made at the end of '37 for early '38 models ??

A


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## Xcelsior

*Serial killer*

I didn't include 1937 on that as those were smaller type and  tight spaced.  I have four 1937 bicycles that have anywhere from S to T and the others I have seen have been S T U V and W.  i just started with 37-38 to explain mostly the model D97X(E) for this gentleman.  I have encountered a few problems with my own system but the bicycle were transitional period bikes like a DX that I know is early 1940 and has a very early D serial.  Then again I had a 1939 straight downtube DX that had a D serial as well.  I Have a 39 motorbike with B serial that falls in the 38 area but has all later characteristics.  Maybe they built the 38 canti frames in 37 for 38 and continued the tight serial pattern from Z to A, then in 1938 switched the rest of the A serial to "normal" font, as in what we see in 1938 and on.  I suppose your going to say that the 37 canti frame had sweat holes in the front as well??  I just go by this and don't expect any others to, like I said early, but it has been more accurate for me than any other list out there.


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## Xcelsior

*Big bowl of serial*

I guess my question has alway been what exact time periods or when exactly did Schwinn change the serial stamping.  Obviously not December 31 of each year.  I have a very early example of a 1935 double diamond cycle plane frame that is "big fancy" A something or other and also has a side stamped 6 35 on the bottom crank housing.  I got this frame from a very "nice some of the time"  knowledgable gentleman who figured that was the production date which I would agree after examining it.  Same stamp font for both number patterns.  So maybe someone can start crunching numbers from production year charts by using that date and see where they end up in 1942 or 46.  So when exactly did they go from big fancy to small tight and uniform to normal standard serials??


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## snickle

According to This article, the serial numbers got tighter in 1937.


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## Xcelsior

*Yes they did*

Yes thanks! I think I established that as have others, but when exactly in 37??


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## Xcelsior

*Oops!*

I see some other incorrect data on that link as well with the characteristics.


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## jn316

*Lug at seat stay?*

Hi, did anyone notice the lug at the seat stays and the top tube?  Also the the rear fender support at the seat stays is straight across?  My 39 is shaped to the fender, is this common on the 40?


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## Balloontyre

*Crank Arm Date*

37Fleetwood, did you find a date on the crank arm on your bike?
 Since there was discussion on the transition of the letter E to F in 1940, a pic of the crank arm from the  Brown DX in this thread, This is unlike other date stamps I have seen, A.S. & CO one side, 40 with "E" prefix other side. 
  It would be interesting to know if there is a  crank stamp  "F" prefixing 40 out there somewhere, or "E" prefixing 41.


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## 37fleetwood

my crank came with the fender set I bought on ebay. I think this came up earlier in the thread. in any case it's an undated ladies crank.it has the 502, or 512 or whatever if I remember correctly.


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## 37fleetwood

I forgot to mention, for April Fools Day I took the DX out for a ride at the Cyclone Coaster ride. I re-badged it as a Huffy and got several people. I was told a few times by some of the guys that they never knew Huffy made a bike that looked like a DX. it also shocked a few to see me on a Schwinn. the bike rode terrible and almost killed me. I think it was the tires, but it was fun poking at everyone and they got a laugh out of it too. still a long way to go on this one.


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## Balloontyre

37fleetwood said:


> my crank came with the fender set I bought on ebay. I think this came up earlier in the thread. in any case it's an undated ladies crank.it has the 502, or 512 or whatever if I remember correctly.




That's right, I remember now, my eyes is crookid can't read straight, :o


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## 37fleetwood

just a quick update!I just bought 3 or 4 more DX bikes. I only intend to keep one but they came up in the wrong order and I seemed to keep buying them. the 4th one is still being considered, it's a girls around 1940 or so.
as soon as I get them, I'll post photos and serials so they can be added to the dating debate.
I bought a boys B.F. Goodrich, which is the one I'll keep, the rest are going to go if anyone is interested in parts. none of them but the B.F.G. are original bikes, so don't feel bad about them getting parted out.


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## HIGGINSFOREVER

So this b6 that i just picked up has a 1940 frame with the serial number F19771 The original owner has a receipt dated november 23 1945 when his father bought the bike.Could this frame be left over from 1941 to 1945 when production started again


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## 37fleetwood

that or it sat in a showroom for a few years. during the war years you had to provide documents showing need to buy a new bike.


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## HIGGINSFOREVER

37fleetwood said:


> that or it sat in a showroom for a few years. during the war years you had to provide documents showing need to buy a new bike.




So the bike is a 1940,Not a 1946


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## Balloontyre

*1940*



HIGGINSFOREVER said:


> So the bike is a 1940,Not a 1946




I would go with 1940 if you can confirm the frame. Got any pics to post???


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## HIGGINSFOREVER

Balloontyre said:


> I would go with 1940 if you can confirm the frame. Got any pics to post???




Go to general discussion yesterday,Pictures there just look for IS IT WORTH WAITING FOR.


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## Dave K

Your B6 is postwar.


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## Balloontyre

*Grape*



HIGGINSFOREVER said:


> Go to general discussion yesterday,Pictures there just look for IS IT WORTH WAITING FOR.




Cool, missed the thread. 
good to know the serial# on a early postwar, very interesting,


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## 37fleetwood

Dave K said:


> Your B6 is postwar.




after looking at the photos in the other thread, I'll have to agree with Dave. in everything that differentiates prewar from postwar your has the postwar traits.


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## HIGGINSFOREVER

37fleetwood said:


> after looking at the photos in the other thread, I'll have to agree with Dave. in everything that differentiates prewar from postwar your has the postwar traits.




O.K. So its a 1940 post war,Now i an really confused.


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## Balloontyre

HIGGINSFOREVER said:


> O.K. So its a 1940 post war,Now i an really confused.




The bike is not 1940 or prewar, early postwar model, the serial number is a subject of debate when "F"
Started, clearly your bike is postwar (forward facing dropout).
Best,
Ivo


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## HIGGINSFOREVER

Balloontyre said:


> The bike is not 1940 or prewar, early postwar model, the serial number is a subject of debate when "F"
> Started, clearly your bike is postwar (forward facing dropout).
> Best,
> Ivo




Yes i know its a postwar model.Just a little schwinn humor.


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## GTs58

Interesting serial number thread! I'd like to add a few facts that may or may not answer some of the questions or unknown reasons why some parts don't match up to the serial numbers supposed year. My research on the post war numbers may have some bearing on the prewar serials and Schwinn's production methods at that time.

First off and one important fact is, Schwinn pre stamped the serial numbers on the crank shells and later on the other components prior to that part being used in building a frame.
Secondly, Schwinn had their model year change over "normally" starting with the serial numbers that were stamped starting at some point in November and dates vary depending on the model along with all of Decembers stampings. Some new model entries were introduced early for Christmas sales such as the Black Phantom and the serial numbers on those were October 1949 and some from September 49 from what I've seen. Take into consideration that the post war serial number list has dates associated to the serial numbers and these dates are the dates the numbers were stamped on the bike's component. It is not a build date of the bike or the frame so there could be some wide spread time gap from the serial stamping date to the actual build of a frame or bike. Later down the road when Schwinn stamped the actual build dates on the head badges I've noted that the time span between the serial stamping date and final build date varies from a month and a half (rare) to two months in a somewhat normal year and many times you'll see a longer time gap between the two dates. During the Strike starting in late 1980 Schwinn made close to 1,000,000 head tubes with serials stamped, no bikes, with the MR or Dec. 80 serial numbers. Those MR stamped head tubes were used to build frames when the strike was over when production resumed in 1981. These head tubes were used on frames built all thru most of the 1981 production year.

In my opinion, dating a bike by some of it parts is sometimes the only way, but then again it can be totally wrong. If a 1940 serial number was on a DX that had the 1941 paint scheme on the frame I'd have say the bike was a 41 with the 1940 stamped BB shell. Parts can be and have been changed out on these prewar pieces so that problem and the fact Schwinn pre stamped the serial numbers ahead of any frame building makes it even more difficult to pin down the correct year of manufacture on the prewar pieces. When using the actual serial number list starting from August 1948 it makes it a little easier to see what was going on with Schwinn's production practices and when the model year change over actually started. I've also noted on some post war models that a newly introduced component that was new for the next year's models have shown up on pieces made in the fall of the previous year. One item was the seat tube decals on a 1962 model that was changed to the new 1963 wrap around decal but they still had all the 1962 components.

Knowing that the serial numbers that were stamped in the last two months of the year were used on units produced the following year may help in figuring out a prewar build year and that's if we know what letter series Schwinn was using in the last two months of any year. This may answer this question.



cyclingday said:


> I've seen two original paint prewar cantilevers with the closely spaced small type that begin with the letter A.
> 
> What is with that? They read like a late 37 but I have not ever heard of, or seen any other early alphabet small type canti's.
> 
> All of the other small type numbered canti's (38 model) start around X  Pretty strange! I'm sure the production of cantilever frames started in 1937 for the 1938 model year, so maybe the first ones built got 1937 stampings.
> 
> But, what happened to all of those other frames from B to V ?


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## cyclingday

A lot of water under the bridge since that post.
I am now convinced, that the small closely stamped A series was late 38/ early 39 before the use of the larger loosely spaced stamping began.
39 series were known to be a alphabetical turnover year, and 38 was known to be a alphabetical tail end year.
Both years had dramatically different font styles, so it makes sense, that when the alphabetical turnover happened, there was a transition from the small font to the large font, beginning with the letter A.


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## GTs58

cyclingday said:


> A lot of water under the bridge since that post.
> I am now convinced, that the small closely stamped A series was late 38/ early 39 before the use of the larger loosely spaced stamping began.
> 39 series were known to be a alphabetical turnover year, and 38 was known to be a alphabetical tail end year.
> Both years had dramatically different font styles, so it makes sense, that when the alphabetical turnover happened, there was a transition from the small font to the large font, beginning with the letter A.




So somewhat the same situation with the A-B-C and D serials being used in 1952-53 and 57?


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## Kato

Posting up for help............thinking a 1937 but see where other info say late 40's and even 50's which I highly doubt.
Serial number is R56320 on a Schwinn Packard badged DX I just picked up..............will post up in Sunday Finds thread tomorrow.
Thoughts on actual year from the pros? I'm not sure which info to believe but betting / hoping 193


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## ADReese

Very cool dx! I'm pretty sure you've got a nice early postwar bike there.


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