# Help ID'ing Cruiser 5



## Rivnut

I picked up a Cruiser 5 today but none of the regular sources reveal anything about the ID number stamped on the head tube.

The number is: BV509002

Chicago or Japanese?  Date?  What about the fork, rack, seat, front fender mount, reflector?  Does anything look not as delivered?  I know that the pedals, grips, and tires were replaced within the last week so the seller thought it would "look better" for selling."

Thanks,
Ed

Any help is appreciated.


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## Jeff54

Rivnut said:


> I picked up a Cruiser 5 today but none of the regular sources reveal anything about the ID number stamped on the head tube.
> 
> The number is: BV509002
> 
> Chicago or Japanese?  Date?  Anything unusual that I should be looking for to help ID this bike?
> 
> Any help is appreciated.





None of your photos are opening except 1, showing the fork and rim..

and that rim has a story to tell. when Schwinn stopped making em, no more rail-road tracks on rims, not even the crappy ones, and you've clearly got none. which makes it a import from who's hell me no know. but it is. I'd estimate it from 1982- 86-ish but could be newer too.

[edit] photos are opening now and also showing the font saying "SCHWINN cruiser 5" is not the same used up until about 1984.

I don't think it's made by PC cycles from 2001 although can't be certain, but, now days, PC uses stamps, a stickier on the frames that you can peal off  verses stamped number on the frame.  Pretty sure that rear rack is the same thing PC cycles is putting Schwinn's name on currently too.

Might be a 1/3 Jap, 1/3 US 1/3 Chinese hybrid. . check for 4 numbers stamped on the badge, from down to up, the 1st number [bottom  ]  will be year made, 198?. 

if it aint there, ? who knows then.


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## PCHiggin

*Looks like 1984...*

The "V" in the serial number reads that way to me. Schwinn still made Cruisers at least through 1986, maybe in their new Mississippi factory? Not sure. They were buying bikes from Giant of Taiwan @ that time too.Heres a link for an '86 Cruiser ad...http://www.trfindley.com/flschwinn_1981_1990/1986_crsr_03.html.


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## rhenning

Technically BV would make that would make it a Febuary 1984 bike and I think a few of the Crusier sytyle bikes were still being made in early 1984 in Chicago or it could be a Murray built framed bike.  Head badge detail and BB detail would answer those questions.  Roger


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## PCHiggin

*Chicago...*

Could be, the "Electroforged" look of that frame says maybe, but I thought that factory closed in 1982.I think he has an American Made Schwinn regardless.


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## Jeff54

PCHiggin said:


> The "V" in the serial number reads that way to me.Schwinn still made Cruisers in their new Mississippi factory at least through 1986,heres a link for an '86 Cruiser ad...http://www.trfindley.com/flschwinn_1981_1990/1986_crsr_03.html.




Ah yes but the more reason it may be a 3 way hybrid.. Did ya notice the brazed cross bar frame in the topic bike?? and the 1986 ad is showing the china frame. No brazing. 

so it's got a mixture of china rims, china or jap fork, china rear rack and who knows what else. 

And that's why the 80-81 cruiser 5 is collectable, was the last years Schwinn used old fashion fork and their Mexican made dual railroad tracks stamped in the rims. Moreover, 80-81 was the last of the USA made bikes. I've seen some cruiser 5's made up to 1984 that have the railroad tracks but not the old school forks or brazed frame. which makes this one an odd ball, transitioned. The frame build might be 81 or 82 but the parts it's assembled with clearly are not.

I've been hunting for a fricken 75-84 Mexican dual train track  rim fer fricken 6 months! LOL.. just missed an 82-4 single speed 'cruiser' , 2 weeks ago with me rims fer 50 bucks too. 

Missed it by 15 minutes! No worries Schwinn put those duel train track S-2's on a bunch of em till about 1984.


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## PCHiggin

Jeff54 said:


> Ah yes but the more reason it may be a 3 way hybrid.. Did ya notice the brazed cross bar frame in the topic bike?? and the 1986 ad is showing the china frame. No brazing.
> 
> so it's got a mixture of china rims, china or jap fork, china rear rack and who knows what else.
> 
> And that's why the 80-81 cruiser 5 is collectable, was the last years Schwinn used old fashion fork and their Mexican made dual railroad tracks stamped in the rims. Moreover, 80-81 was the last of the USA made bikes. I've seen some cruiser 5's made up to 1984 that have the railroad tracks but not the old school forks or brazed frame. which makes this one an odd ball, transitioned. The frame build might be 81 or 82 but the parts it's assembled with clearly are not.
> 
> I've been hunting for a fricken 75-84 Mexican dual train track  rim fer fricken 6 months! LOL.. just missed an 82-4 single speed 'cruiser' , 2 weeks ago with me rims fer 50 bucks too.
> 
> Missed it by 15 minutes! No worries Schwinn put those duel train track S-2's on a bunch of em till about 1984.




Well,As stated above,the frame looks "Electroforged" to me but could be brazed,I cant tell the construction of the one in the ad.Schwinn wasn't buying bikes from China back then, their Asian bikes were Taiwanese, made by Giant and of high quality. I cant say I've ever seen a Cruiser with that style frame made by Giant but there may have been. As stated above,its probably a late Chicago bike,a Murray or Greenville Miss.Schwinn.Greenphantom will probably chime in on this,he'll know.


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## GTs58

Get the build date from the numbers stamped in the headbadge. The serial number does not tell you when the bike was built. 

I believe the Chicago plant was completely closed down in 1983. Schwinn made a deal with Murray to build some Schwinn models, low end lightweights and Cantilever bikes using Schwinn's parts, and their EF tools. After the two or so years the bikes Murray was building for Schwinn were then produced in Taiwan. I'd guess that Cruiser was built in the states but not by Schwinn. It still has the rear guard mounting tab on the chain stay (Taiwan on the seat stay) and the cantilever tubes are not short like the Taiwan POS.


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## Rivnut

*I checked the head badge*



Jeff54 said:


> check for 4 numbers stamped on the badge, from down to up, the 1st number [bottom  ]  will be year made, 198?. if it aint there, ? who knows then.




The number on the head badge from bottom to top is 1174.  So going on what you're saying, it's an 1981.

But after finding the head badge number, I did some more searching and came up with this about head badge numbers.

O_N NEWER BIKES: 
you can find a 4 digit serial number lightly stamped onto the headbadge. 
The first three digits are the numerical day of the year, 
and the last digit is the last digit of the year.

EXAMPLE: 
3654 is 12/31/84 or 94 or? you determine decade._

If that is true, then 1174 would make the bike an '84 model, built on the 117th day or April, the 27th.

The same site shows serial numbers for later bikes as two letters followed by some numbers.  R=1980, S=1981, and T=1982 then the list ends.  If the same sequence were to continue, then U=1983, and V=1984.  My stamped number has the V in it  (preceded by a B)  Could the frame have been built in Feb of '84 and then finally assembled in April of 1984? 

Ed


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## GTs58

Looks like you have a 1984 Cruiser. And again, the frame sure looks like Schwinn material. Murray supposedly purchase Schwinn's EF equipment and Schwinn supposedly supplied the parts for some of their models. The rear brake bridge is another clue that this is not a Taiwan frame. 
The frame could have been built on the day the serial number was recorded but from my research, there is a 50/50 chance it was not. The flat sheet of steel that the head tube was stamped from had the serial number stamped on sometime while it was stamped for the tubing joints and before being rolled and EF together. So with all the frames built with the serial number stamped on the head tube, I would say the frame was definitely not built the same day the serial number was recorded. I had a later 80's Cruiser 5 and it was nothing like the bikes Schwinn produced or the ones that Murray cranked out.


Edit... Other than the items you mentioned, the bike looks original minus the aftermarked fenders and accessories. I do find it odd that there are no other markings other then the guard screening.


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## Metacortex

That Cruiser was built in 1984 by Murray in Lawrenceburg TN, the Schwinn Chicago factory closed in mid-'83. As you surmised, the frame was built in Feb. '84 (BVxxxxxx) and the bike itself was built on the 117th day, or Thursday April 26th, 1984 (you didn't take into account the leap-year in your original estimation).

You can verify this by the construction of the bottom bracket housing, which was distinctly different between the Schwinn and Murray built bikes. You can find out more about that (including pictures of the differences) in this topic: http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showth...-this-schwinn-continental&p=374773#post374773

That model appears in the '84 Full Line and BMX catalogs, unfortunately neither of those are available on-line. From what I can see as compared to what is  shown in the '84 catalog page your bike appears to be original except for the pedals, grips and missing front/rear reflectors. The original knobby tires on the coaster were whitewall however those shown on the 5-speed appear to be gumwall. Note that the fenders and rack appear to be dealer or user-installed accessories as these bikes originally came without them.


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## PCHiggin

*Funny How Things Change...*

Back In 1983 or '84,I bought 2 Taiwanese Schwinns from our local shop.Mine was a  ten speed (don't remember the model) and a 3 speed Collegiate for my mom, which she still has.I remember seeing the Cruisers on the floor and thinking "Who'd wanna buy one of those ugly old fashioned pos's"  LOL! Fast forward 30 or so years and I end up buying 3 Cruiser style bikes from the same guy...I really like my Cruisers,new and old but my 10 speeds are still the most fun to ride....Btw,That bike is very nice,I'd just give it a good cleaning,trash those fenders and ride.


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## Rivnut

Thanks for the info on the fenders.  In my "image" searches, I found bikes both with and without.  For now, I think I'll leave them - more bling for the buck - knowing that I can take them off at anytime.  I had some doubt about their authenticity when I saw how the one front fender brace was molded to fit.

Thanks for the info.  I've ridden it around the block a couple of times and it seems to ride really well.  It was too cold yesterday to go any farther.  I lost track of my senses once and tried to set the "non-existent coaster brake" then quickly realized what was going on.  I need to get the chrome cleaned up and polish the paint.  Can anyone tell me if new cable clips are available to replace the rusty ones that are now on the bike?  What grips and pedals would be correct if I were to look for replacements?  Any other comments or critiques are welcome.

There are brackets/holes for fender braces on the bike.  Was this frame used for other bikes and the brackets/holes "just there" or are they there for dealers to add fenders and racks as options?   

Thanks for you help.

Ed


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## Jeff54

Rivnut said:


> The number on the head badge from bottom to top is 1174.  So going on what you're saying, it's an 1981.





Yeah, my bad, that makes two times I got the read up-side-down. Yes, it's an 84.. and based on GT's info I spect those are murray rims. As far as Murray is concerned, as a kid in the 1960's they along with huffy were the crap bikes, rust buckets, broken joints, bent ect. If they weren't made in china back then, Mexico or whatever, surely china modeled their bikes when they started dumping em in K and Wal-Mart. Or, in the 1960's   were not products you'd want to be proud of as made in USA. One of the two, were Schwinn knock off manufactures with rims like Schwinn's but no railroad tracks. 

Funny that, brazed smooth, rounded cross bar head joints on it in 84, I have not seen but electro beaded, presumably Murray frames in any after 81/2. 

But with a search on 1984 here's another that was posted here in the cabe..







So now I'm wondering,, I've been seeing plenty without the brazing after 81 with those forks and with duel railroad track marked rims. maybe 83 was the cut off date on the railroad tracks? weird, that brazing in 84. 

Makes me wonder, Schwinn had a short run before calling it quits? numbered left overs? Or decided to have their new manufactures redo that brazing for a short period?

BTW, ya, unless you likes mud stripes on your back and face, ya, defiantly wrong fenders on it, but otherwise, ya get war painted.


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## GTs58

Jeff54 said:


> Yeah, my bad, that makes two times I got the read up-side-down. Yes, it's an 84.. and based on GT's info I spect those are murray rims. As far as Murray is concerned, as a kid in the 1960's they along with huffy were the crap bikes, rust buckets, broken joints, bent ect. If they weren't made in china back then, Mexico or whatever, surely china modeled their bikes when they started dumping em in K and Wal-Mart. Or, in the 1960's   were not products you'd want to be proud of as made in USA. One of the two, were Schwinn knock off manufactures with rims like Schwinn's but no railroad tracks.
> 
> Funny that, brazed smooth, rounded cross bar head joints on it in 84, I have not seen but electro beaded, presumably Murray frames in any after 81/2.
> 
> But with a search on 1984 here's another that was posted here in the cabe..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now I'm wondering,, I've been seeing plenty without the brazing after 81 with those forks and with duel railroad track marked rims. maybe 83 was the cut off date on the railroad tracks? weird, that brazing in 84.
> 
> Makes me wonder, Schwinn had a short run before calling it quits? numbered left overs? Or decided to have their new manufactures redo that brazing for a short period?
> 
> BTW, ya, unless you likes mud stripes on your back and face, ya, defiantly wrong fenders on it, but otherwise, ya get war painted.




Those two Cruisers have electroforged frames. Schwinn stopped brazing these frames way back 30+ years earlier. In 62 the brazed on cable guides, shifter mounts etc. were also welded on.


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## GTs58

After looking at those two Cruiser pictures I noticed another little detail between the Schwinn, Murray and Taiwan frames. Schwinn's cantilever tubes are flush with the front of the downtube. The Murray's Schwinn frames appear to have the cantilever tubes past the front of the downtube and the Taiwan frames have the tubes a little bit short of being flush with the front of the downtube. Rivnut, can you verify that the cantilever tubes are past the front of the downtube? It's sure appears they are by quite a bit in the pictures.


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## Jeff54

GTs58 said:


> Those two Cruisers have electroforged frames. Schwinn stopped brazing these frames way back 30+ years earlier. In 62 the brazed on cable guides, shifter mounts etc. were also welded on.



Edit! OK wait, because I'm always researching not just stopping on 1 article, but, within Sheldon browns site there's another article regarding electro welding, and that in the late 60's Schwinn designed a way to duplicate the brazed look by pressing out the front tupe in halves and electro welding them together, to make a look-a-like brazed frame.

I hadn't known about this before but did think it odd Schwinn would have continued spending the cash for brazing. Regardless as the article indicates by late 60's they were not brazed but joined halves. http://sheldonbrown.com/varsity.html

So, in conclusion, rather, while the later bikes were not brazed, the equipment was only Schwinn's, which means that the 'look-a-like' brazed frames were Schwinn's, and easy to identify for the smooth rounded joints at the head tube, such as the bike in this topic.

 


never mind below 
If you're referencing this article  regarding brazing, note that it is not referring to heavy weight frames but lightweight, such as 10 speed and potentially middle weight. Bikes such as the 1980's crosscut and other road bikes were not brazed, after 1978/9. While quite obviously, the cruiser frames which were not made by Giant in Taiwan, the end of the era stops on fillet brazed frames such as the topic bike. While the cruiser's made by Giant in Taiwan then later China Bikes, are easy to identify for the lack  fillet brazing. 

Fillet braze











Article link regarding fillet brazing on lightweight Schwinn's 
http://sheldonbrown.com/schwinn-braze.html

That bike was brazed, "fillet brazed"

There are some stingrays into the early 1980's that are fillet brazed as well.


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## Rivnut

GTs58 said:


> After looking at those two Cruiser pictures I noticed another little detail between the Schwinn, Murray and Taiwan frames. Schwinn's cantilever tubes are flush with the front of the downtube. The Murray's Schwinn frames appear to have the cantilever tubes past the front of the downtube and the Taiwan frames have the tubes a little bit short of being flush with the front of the downtube. Rivnut, can you verify that the cantilever tubes are past the front of the downtube? It's sure appears they are by quite a bit in the pictures.





In post #11, the writer states that the bike was built by Murray in Lawrenceburg, TN.  The quote above says that the Murray built bike has the cantilever tubes extending beyond the downtube.  

My bike has the cantilever tubes extending beyond the downtube.  Looks like I have a Murray built 1984 Schwinn Cruiser 5 with aftermarket fenders and rack.  

Thanks for everything.

Ed


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## Jeff54

Rivnut said:


> In post #11, the writer states that the bike was built by Murray in Lawrenceburg, TN.  The quote above says that the Murray built bike has the cantilever tubes extending beyond the downtube.
> 
> My bike has the cantilever tubes extending beyond the downtube.  Looks like I have a Murray built 1984 Schwinn Cruiser 5 with aftermarket fenders and rack.
> 
> Thanks for everything.
> 
> Ed





No, while it's confusing; brazed verses  electro welded, and slight differences of frames..

that brazed appearance was only built by Schwinn. It''s always been a quick identifier for me too, since a kid.

this link discusses the approximate date Schwinn changed from brazing to a 'look-a-like' design 1968/9, and the machinery they used was unique. 

http://sheldonbrown.com/varsity.html

You may have some parts made by Giant in Taiwan, possibly China bikes too, And a thing or two by Murray, perhaps the rims maybe the fork  but, nobody except Schwinn had the machinery to make the 'look-a-like' frames. Murray, Giant, China and PC Cycles  never had the equipment for them.


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## GTs58

Here's a couple pics of my Taiwan Cruiser. No filet brazing and no unique Schwinn head tube. After I cleaned it up I sold it but I did make a few notes on the crappy quality.

Note the 1961 frame below. Schwinn was using their two piece EF headtube, no filet brazing, much earlier than the late 60's. The redish brown on that frame is actually rust.


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## Metacortex

Jeff54 said:


> ...that brazed appearance was only built by Schwinn. It''s always been a quick identifier for me too, since a kid.




That was true up until mid-'83 when the electro-forging machinery was sold to Murray, who then built similar looking electro-forged bikes (with some differences) for Schwinn in late '83 through '85. The '84 Cruiser 5 in question here was built by Murray even though it has the Schwinn style electro-forged headtube.


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## ramjet70

*spitfire 5*

I love these late model cruiser 5 speeds. here is a picture of my 79 spitfire 5. I added grip shift and a springer fork. also added NOS Schwinn balloon tires. it also has the rear drum brakes and S2 heavy duty spoked rims. rides awesome!!


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## Rivnut

There's snow on the ground today and the temp hasn't risen above 35 since I picked it up.  You guys are really making me want to get this bike out and ride it.  In process: correct grips, and pedals.  I'll try these tires before I go the OE knobby route.  My '36 Elgin has the same tires in blackwall as the Cruise 5 does now and I think they ride great.

One thing that you'll notice about my '84 when compared to the black bike in post #20 is the goose neck.  Mine is a typical one piece unit whereas the bike in post #20 has a two piece alloy one.  .... don't know if that post has been changed out or is OE. 

I really appreciate all of the feed back.  If it rides as nicely as everyone say, it would appear that I probably need to find one for Linda.

Ed


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## GTs58

The BMX two piece stem is original on that Black 88-89? Cruiser. That bike was all original when I got it including the black foam on the bars and worthless plastic cable clamps. I replaced the pedals and clamps, cleaned it up, removed the foam from the bars, painted the guard and thru it up on CL. The only thing I liked on that Cruiser was the BMX style stem. 

Not knowing the conditions of where you ride, but I'd leave those tires on your Cruiser and forget about the og knobby tires. I've had a few cruisers with the knobby tires and they are great for trails and off road riding. On asphalt I really didn't care for the ride or vibrations so I put a pair of brick tread whitewalls on my 79 Spitfire 5.


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## Rivnut

About a half mile from my house is the Gary Haller Trail.  It's 17 miles long and the entire trail is asphalt.  Around here I don't like riding on the roads.  The only other places we ride is on some local pub crawls.  The one we do most often is on the old bed where the trolley used to run through the south part of Kansas City.  I'll probably stick with these tires; they're brand new.  The seller put them on the bike just to sell it.


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## PCHiggin

We only cruise trails and parks anymore,except in the neighborhood.Had a close brush with a car going over 40 and that was enough for me.


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## onecatahula

*1981 Cruiser 5 for sale*

A buddy of mine has, from what I'm told, an all original minty '81 Cruiser 5 for sale.
Anybody interested, email me with your phone number.
Thanks,
Pete
tocatahula@sbcglobal.net


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## Jeff54

Metacortex said:


> That was true up until mid-'83 when the electro-forging machinery was sold to Murray, who then built similar looking electro-forged bikes (with some differences) for Schwinn in late '83 through '85. The '84 Cruiser 5 in question here was built by Murray even though it has the Schwinn style electro-forged headtube.




Would you quote or link  your source of Murray buying Schwinn's equipment for the Schwinn style head post machinery?


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## rhenning

Metacortex is the source almost everyone uses for Schwinn facts and he has the paperwork to prove it.  So in fact he is quoting himself and his paper trail.  Roger


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## Metacortex

Jeff54 said:


> Would you quote or link  your source of Murray buying Schwinn's equipment for the Schwinn style head post machinery?




Did you read my previous post here?: http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?65426-Help-ID-ing-Cruiser-5&p=396975#post396975

I've been compiling information about this for several years now, it started when I accidentally purchased one of the last Chicago built '83 Continentals. There is no way I could post all of my research (and much of it is not online), but here are a few links for you to peruse:

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showth...w-when-in-83-the-Chicago-Schwinn-plant-closed
http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?62180-can-you-help-me-identify-this-schwinn-continental
http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...20-00-garage-sale-schwinn-1984-what-heck.html
http://www.re-cycle.com/History/Schwinn/Swn9_Chicago.aspx
http://www.schwinnbikeforum.com/index.php?topic=6188.0

The physical differences between the Chicago IL (Schwinn) and Lawrenceburg TN (Murray) frames are very easy to see. The fact that they were dating not only the frames but also the bike build dates (headbage no.) made it fairly easy to determine the transition to mid-'83.



rhenning said:


> Metacortex is the source almost everyone uses for Schwinn facts and he has the paperwork to prove it.  So in fact he is quoting himself and his paper trail.  Roger




Thanks Roger!


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## PCHiggin

*Electroforged....*

So,Does anybody know with certainty that Murray Ohio used that process for making  frames? I never knew the differences in the Westfield and Murray Elgins.Cool info.


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## rhenning

Have you read the last few posts???????  Roger


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## PCHiggin

*Woops...*

Wrong thread.I was thinking  pre war based on a thread about a '41 Elgin.The 80's info is great.


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## PCHiggin

*Gotta Quickly Hijack...*

Ok,When did they start using Taiwan for canti style frames? What year do you think this one was made?...Ebay Item# 191397030095..Just curious,thanks for any positive replies.Sorry if I missed this info in this or another thread, I'm too lazy to read everything.


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## Rivnut

PCHiggin said:


> Ok,When did they start using Taiwan for canti style frames? What year do you think this one was made?...Ebay Item# 191397030095..Just curious,thanks for any positive replies.Sorry if I missed this info in this or another thread, I'm too lazy to read everything.




I couldn't get a link to open using the number you have.  I copied and pasted it so I didn't transpose or leave anything out.

Any way you can copy and paste the link?

Ed


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## Livmojoe

*Here's the link*

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191397030095

BTW, great thread with some great info


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## GTs58

PCHiggin said:


> Ok,When did they start using Taiwan for canti style frames? What year do you think this one was made?...Ebay Item# 191397030095..Just curious,thanks for any positive replies.Sorry if I missed this info in this or another thread, I'm too lazy to read everything.




Hard to say for sure what year this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/191397030095  is. Somewhere from a 1987 to a 1989. For sure Taiwan though. See how short the cantilever bars are and the seat stay chain guard mounting. Not to mention it doesn't have the look of filet brazed EF joints. 

Taiwan cantilevers appeared in the 1986 model year.


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## spoker

minneapolis c l listing number 4771409013 nice bike never seen a boys in pink


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## Jeff54

I've seen a few listing in Los Angeles  area of pink cruisers, but not that had 5 speed.

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/bik/4771409013.html


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## PCHiggin

*Thought This Was Interesting....*

http://murrayeliminatormusclebikes.yuku.com/topic/137/Murray-to-build-Schwinn-bicycles...This info is probably posted elsewhere here but I've never seen it


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## Jeff54

PCHiggin said:


> http://murrayeliminatormusclebikes.yuku.com/topic/137/Murray-to-build-Schwinn-bicycles...This info is probably posted elsewhere here but I've never seen it




there ya go then. According to that article, Murray did not build the Schwinn frames, Schwinn did, Murray painted em. Which makes sense in the other article I linked here, which claimed that Schwinn's unique frame building equipment and system never left, did not get transferred to Murray after all,  and was discarded through the years.


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## Metacortex

While that article indicates Schwinn would build the frames, Murray took over EF frame production in mid-'83 and continued producing some models through '85. From what I've been able to determine the last Chicago built EF frames were completed during in the second quarter of '83, right before the transition to Murray.



GTs58 said:


> Taiwan cantilevers appeared in the 1986 model year.




Just to set the record straight in this topic for the archives the Cruiser (cantilever frame) was re-introduced in 1985 as a Taiwan-built bike, appearing only in the BMX catalog that year.


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## PCHiggin

Jeff54 said:


> there ya go then. According to that article, Murray did not build the Schwinn frames, Schwinn did, Murray painted em. Which makes sense in the other article I linked here, which claimed that Schwinn's unique frame building equipment and system never left, did not get transferred to Murray after all,  and was discarded through the years.




All of the info. seems a bit murky to me. That article makes the most sense,but who really knows? Did Schwinn change their frame design @ the btm.brkt and chain stays  just before trashing it? They probably did, as a last ditch effort to save money. Did Murray actually make some frames by their own design in those areas? I doubt it 'cause the Electroforge process required  specialized machinery and it would have been costly to make that stuff all over again for a relative short run,or refurbish the old tooling from Schwinn in Chicago and set it up @ Murray in Tenn. I really enjoy learning this stuff and I'll be looking @ Cruisers in a different light now.


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## PCHiggin

*Btw....Thanks!*

........Azhearseguy,Metacortex and Jeff54 diggin' up this info.I really enjoy it.


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## GTs58

Jeff54 said:


> there ya go then. According to that article, Murray did not build the Schwinn frames, Schwinn did, Murray painted em. Which makes sense in the other article I linked here, which claimed that Schwinn's unique frame building equipment and system never left, did not get transferred to Murray after all,  and was discarded through the years.





If you look at the frames, you can easily see they were not built by Schwinn. Some frame parts may have been made and supplied by Schwinn, but the frames are not Chicago frames. The bottom bracket and cantilever bars are definitely not the same as a Schwinn built frame. The bottom bracket tube was made by Murray and that is the first component needed to build a frame.

Here is how Schwinn made their headtubes and bottom brackets. It wasn't just tubing that was drilled out for the other tubes. These compenents made a Schwinn EF frame look like it was fillet brazed. 
http://sheldonbrown.com/varsity.html


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## Jeff54

GTs58 said:


> If you look at the frames, you can easily see they were not built by Schwinn. Some frame parts may have been made and supplied by Schwinn, but the frames are not Chicago frames. The bottom bracket and cantilever bars are definitely not the same as a Schwinn built frame. The bottom bracket tube was made by Murray and that is the first component needed to build a frame.
> 
> Here is how Schwinn made their headtubes and bottom brackets. It wasn't just tubing that was drilled out for the other tubes. These compenents made a Schwinn EF frame look like it was fillet brazed.
> http://sheldonbrown.com/varsity.html





Whelp and there's the thing GT, according to Sheldon brown, citing info they claimed direct from Schwinn, apparently, Schwinn retained the process/ equipment to create their 'signature' joint system.. 

and that's the thing about the topic bike,  that article supports Sheldon brown's claim. Brown claims the equipment was special, and lost now.. 



It's a branding signature. 


url]http://sheldonbrown.com/varsity.html[/url]


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## GTs58

Jeff54 said:


> Whelp and there's the thing GT, according to Sheldon brown, citing info they claimed direct from Schwinn, apparently, Schwinn retained the process/ equipment to create their 'signature' joint system..
> 
> and that's the thing about the topic bike,  that article supports Sheldon brown's claim. Brown claims the equipment was special, and lost now..
> 
> 
> 
> It's a branding signature.
> 
> 
> url]http://sheldonbrown.com/varsity.html[/url]
> 
> 
> [/B]





Here is a quote from that article on Sheldon's site. 

*The welding equipment was sold, no doubt being used to make some sort of tubular product.

Now as far as the stamping and rolling tools go that were used to make the Schwinn head tubes and bottom brackets, that's a nuther story. I would have to say that the head tube on Rivnuts bike was made by Schwinn and supplied to Murray.*


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## Jeff54

GTs58 said:


> Here is a quote from that article on Sheldon's site.
> 
> *The welding equipment was sold, no doubt being used to make some sort of tubular product.
> 
> Now as far as the stamping and rolling tools go that were used to make the Schwinn head tubes and bottom brackets, that's a nuther story. I would have to say that the head tube on Rivnuts bike was made by Schwinn and supplied to Murray.*



*

 donna forgot cept I scanned brown's info weeks ago, over and over, to lazy at this point to do it again..

However and why I don't feel the need to reexamine browns is: ,

 "  I would have to say that the head tube on Rivnuts bike was made by Schwinn and supplied to Murray"

You've got a good point there. in the lest we know Schwinn was making something, and 'pieces for frames' are indicated in the article.. me thinks you've hit the nail spot on. 

That's a horse of a different color, also splians why some of the  frame is different too. perhaps, potentially, riddle solved. 

Without inspection, even though drop outs are different, I think it may fit in here, even though we have not explored this,, it's possible Schwinn formed the crank housing too.*


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## Rivnut

PCHiggin said:


> http://murrayeliminatormusclebikes.yuku.com/topic/137/Murray-to-build-Schwinn-bicycles...This info is probably posted elsewhere here but I've never seen it




Great information.  Solves any mysteries that might still might have been prevailing out there.

Ed


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## PCHiggin

Who had that pink Taiwan Built Cruiser for sale? Is it still available? thanks


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## Jeff54

PCHiggin said:


> Who had that pink Taiwan Built Cruiser for sale? Is it still available? thanks




Here's one fer ya:

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/bik/4850396612.html


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## spoker

PCHiggin said:


> Who had that pink Taiwan Built Cruiser for sale? Is it still available? thanks




there was one on mpls cl


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