# Columbia Road Racer or Special Racer model question



## Gary Mc (Sep 4, 2012)

Anyone out there have a teens to 1933 either Columbia or Westfield made (Elgin for example) Road Racer or Special Racer model?  Or a photo of one?   I need to see a closeup photo of the rear dropout and chain tensioner bolts.  I have a 1930 Columbia arch bar that has curious rear drop outs that to me look like the racer models.  They are not the normal roadster dropouts so trying to see some comparison pics to see what I have.

Any help is greatly appreciated!!!!  Thanks - Gary


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## pelletman (Sep 4, 2012)

*Columbia Racer*

This is upon conclusion of his first century.  I hope you can see what you need


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## Gary Mc (Sep 4, 2012)

Thanks pelletman.  That is a great bike!!!!!!  Can't quite see what I'm trying to see but they look like regular threaded dropouts when I  blow up the pics.  Thanks again.

Any others out there anyone????


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## pelletman (Sep 5, 2012)

If you send me an email address either PM or post here I will send the original pictures to blow up


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## Dweber (Sep 5, 2012)

*1921 Columbia M3 Racer Pictures*

Attached are a couple photos of my 1921 Columbia M3 Racer. Hope this answers your questions.


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## Balloontyre (Sep 5, 2012)

1931 Elgin Racer


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## corbettclassics (Sep 6, 2012)

Dweber said:


> Attached are a couple photos of my 1921 Columbia M3 Racer. Hope this answers your questions.




I wonder how early this script was used.  I have a 1902 Columbia model 83 RACER and am curious if the
down tube had "Racer" or "Columbia Racer" as your does.
Do you have a better picture of this script please....and if so could you send it my way>
corbettclassics@me .com

Thanks very much...Bill


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## Gary Mc (Sep 6, 2012)

Pelletman, Dweber, & Balloontyre,  

Thank you all greatly for taking the time to post & email me pics.  It helps me in that now I know my rear drop-outs are not the type Westfield used on racers nor are they the type used on roadsters so I still have a mystery frame to resolve.  Serial number and badge & head tube construction all say it's a Columbia.  Rear drop-outs though make you surmise maybe not a Columbia.  Head tube is filled in from damage so until I get a grinder out to see where screws were I may not know if head badge was correct to bike or not.  This build will not proceed until I figure this out.  Any way it is a mystery & thanks again.  Again, your help is greatly appreciated.

Gary


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## hoofhearted (Sep 12, 2012)

GARY ... i have an early Hendee Indian Racer ... lots of lugs ... badge is 1917 thru 1922 (+/-) ... 
tall badge with Indian face in relief .. looking to our left.  This Racer has >>> Racer <<< in script 
on the top of the down-tube ... BSA front drive with factory-mod at fore-end of right chain-stay, 
to allow the rider's feet to be more tucked-in ... often referred to as 'narrow tread'.  The dropouts on 
this racer DO NOT HAVE the usual threaded element for adjusting chain tension.  Instead .. two paral-
lel slots are stamped into the drop-out plates ... then a threaded-metal piece having two right angles 
... kind of like the activity that a car would make in a U-turn ... is placed into each pair slots. 

THE ATTACHMENT is from Easywind's 1916 Indian Motobike.  The previous year that Hendee made 
bicycles that were catalogued was 1901 ... for 1902 the company focus was on Motocycle production.
Then ... in 1916 Hendee begins building bicycles, again.  

EASYWIND's 1916 Indian Motobike And His Pics Are Outstanding !!!!!!!!!


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## Gary Mc (Sep 12, 2012)

hoofhearted said:


> GARY ... i have an early Hendee Indian Racer ... lots of lugs ... badge is 1917 thru 1922 (+/-) ...
> tall badge with Indian face in relief .. looking to our left.  This Racer has >>> Racer <<< in script
> on the top of the down-tube ... BSA front drive with factory-mod at fore-end of right chain-stay,
> to allow the rider's feet to be more tucked-in ... often referred to as 'narrow tread'.  The dropouts on
> ...





Patric,

Thank You.  That pic really helps as it appears to be the exact rear drop out as on my arch bar which I thought was a 1930 Columbia.  Now I'm really wondering what I have.  Very interesting that Hendee/Indian used it in the teens & then it shows up on what appears to be a 14 year later Westfield built bike.  I will take a closer look at the pic tonight & compare it to mine but at first glance it appears exactly the same.  Thanks.

Gary


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## hoofhearted (Sep 12, 2012)

CORRECTION ... just typed erroneous info about >>> two parallel slots being stamped 
into the drop-out plates <<< WRONGER WORDS HAVE  NEVER BEEN SPOKEN ... instead 
the scrpt should read >>> a slot being stamped into the drop-out plate.

............  patric


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## Gary Mc (Sep 12, 2012)

hoofhearted said:


> CORRECTION ... just typed erroneous info about >>> two parallel slots being stamped
> into the drop-out plates <<< WRONGER WORDS HAVE  NEVER BEEN SPOKEN ... instead
> the scrpt should read >>> a slot being stamped into the drop-out plate.
> 
> ............  patric




Patric,

Thanks for the correction but I paid attention to the pic and saw the single slot.  Here's mine that is has me questioning the ID on my bike and appears the same with a single slot as the Hendee made 1916 Indian:






Thanks. - Gary


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## hoofhearted (Sep 12, 2012)

GARY ... now i'm gonna add some more heat to the fire ... attached are two pics of my 1901 Hendee Indian 
Racer ... this little thing also has the type of adjusters both you and i speak of.  The stays on this ride term-
inate in that little "ball-end" affair, at the drop-out plate ... just like the 28-inch Indian bicycles of that year.
Somewhere on The CABE, SCOTT McCASKEY has at least four close-up pics of The 1901 Li'l Indian Racer.  
i don't know how to get to them.

IN ADDITION ... the first-year 1901 Hendee INDIAN Motocycle has not only the "ball-end" feature on its four, 
rear stays .. but also has that dual-right-angle, inserted adjuster feature.

NOW ... this new statement could raise (or lower in the center) a few eyebrows ..... Not Every Hendee INDIAN 
Has the Insert-Type of Adjuster thru the years ...... And, Not Every Hendee INDIAN Has the Ball-End Affair at 
the Termination Of the Rear Stays  ... BUT ... The COLUMBIA Line ... not the Westfield Line ... MORE LIKELY 
THAN NOT ... WILL ALWAYS (usually) HAVE THE "BALL-END" AFFAIR at the termination of the four, rear stays.

AND ... 

THE COLUMBIA LINE may or may not have that Insert-Type of Adjuster.  THERE ... it's been said !!!

............  patric


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## hoofhearted (Sep 13, 2012)

GARY ... i believe it is appropriate to post some pics of my Teen's Era Hendee INDIAN Racer.  The ride has 
fixed, threaded adjusters and that little Ball-End feature at the termination of the rear stays.  Look closely 
at the chain-stay just behind the BSA Racing Crankset ... the factory has the pedals close together in an 
effort to cheat the wind ... tucking as much of the rider's feet (as possible) into the Racing Bicycle.

Talked with SCOTT McCaskey and he will forward pics of my Li'l Indian Special Racer soon.  i will post them 
when they become available.

...... patric


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## Gary Mc (Sep 14, 2012)

Patric,

Thanks for posting the Indian pics.  Those are amazing bicycles, my eyes are still bulging after 24 hours from first viewing them!!!!!!!!!!!  Just truly truly amazing bikes!!!!!!!  This at least gives me an idea of the different type chain tensioners that were used with these style of rear dropouts.   I don't know the answer as to why my Columbia has them but I think I am going to view it as just another example of an anomaly that came out of the Westfield plant.  I am pretty sure Westfield manufactured the last couple of years of Indians, maybe 1922-23, can anybody confirm?  If so, maybe the rear dropout is an anomaly as a result of that partnership, who knows.  It does add some intrigue to the bike anyway & food for further consideration in trying to figure my bike out which may be a lost cause.....  More to come I'm sure and Patric, I can't wait to see the additional pics Scott has of the 24" Indian.  Thanks again.

Gary Mc


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## corbettclassics (Sep 14, 2012)

Gary Mc said:


> Patric,
> 
> Thanks for the correction but I paid attention to the pic and saw the single slot.  Here's mine that is has me questioning the ID on my bike and appears the same with a single slot as the Hendee made 1916 Indian:
> 
> ...




This rear drop out is pretty common on a lot of bikes back then.  My 1897 Cleveland Racer
is the same as this pic too.  A square "U" shaped bracket fits in and then the adjuster bolt.
I've seen many bikes using this drop out in the past.


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## Gary Mc (Sep 24, 2012)

Finally figured out today with the arrival of my 1927 Westfield built Stutz that Westfield was using at least 2 different rear drop-outs in the 1920's to early 30's.  The 1927 Stutz has the same rear drop-out as my now confirmed 1930 Columbia arch bar.  Thanks to all who helped me in this thread.  Here's the 1927 Stutz rear drop-out exactly like my Columbia pictured earlier here:


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## corbettclassics (Oct 29, 2013)

Dweber said:


> Attached are a couple photos of my 1921 Columbia M3 Racer. Hope this answers your questions.




Hi,

Is it possible to get a measurement of the decal?? ( Columbia Racer )

I have one a little earlier and I'm having some decals made.  I'm starting
on the restoration and the measurements would really help.

Left a PM for you but never heard back.  Maybe it didn't go through!

Thank you very much ...
Bill


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