# Odd Spoke Question???



## Bikephreak (Aug 7, 2009)

Okay, I have been working on getting my old Columbia chainless into rideable condition. I have some 16 gauge stainless wire, with little bearings brazed on for the hub end of the spokes (just like the original spokes)... now for the next engineering problem. Nipples for 16 gauge wire! The original Pope Mfg. spokes are swaged at the nipple end. I don't know if I can even thread the 16 ga wire yet. Any leads to 3/4" nipples for 16 ga. wire? I have an odd bailout plan of brazing some 2mm tubing over the nipple end of the spokes, so I could run it through a Phil spoke cutter & use these nos 3/4" 2.0 ga. nipples. Am I nuts? Any suggestions? If this project is nothing else, it is an exercise of patience...
   Thanks,
      Jim


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## Strings-n-Spokes (Aug 7, 2009)

You are nuts!



Good luck


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## kunzog (Aug 7, 2009)

Most spokes arent threaded with a die but are "Rolled" with a Spoke Machine and a special 3 point rolling head. Threading with a die removes metal leaving a weak area while rolling adds threads and actually increases the threaded diameter.
A method I have heard about but never tried is to use an arc welder to make ball end spokes.  In theory you put a new modern spoke in the rod holder and draw an arc. If you have ever welded you know that the rod will "ball" at the end if left too long or welder set too high. Experiment with this and you can create the proper size ball at the end of a new spoke already cut to proper size.


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## Bikephreak (Aug 8, 2009)

*Crazy?!?!? Yup!*

Yeah, I am a bit crazy... There are no stock spokes long enough to work with these old Pope Mfg. hubs. DT, Wheelsmith, & Sapim were unable to provide me with blanks that were long enough to use. So I went to a machinist who has made the blanks with drilled ball bearings brazed onto the spoke wire & they have the little "tit" that protrudes from the hub end to slide under the lip on the keyhole spoke slots so the spoke doesn't pop out radially while the wheel is in motion under load... Whew.
   I also know about rolling vs. cutting spoke threads. The smallest die that fits a Phil Wood spoke machine is for a 1.8 spoke. There are also no 16 gauge spoke nipples that I can find, anywhere. That leaves me thinking the best approach is to increase the diameter of the spokes (an sleeved "swage") for a proper diameter for the spoke machine & available nipples. THe original Pope Mfg. nipples/spokes have some oddball (in-house?) thread pitch that I cannot re-create, so I have some visually identical nipples for a 2.0 spoke. Filling these nipples with brass, drilling them & threading them to match the 16 gauge wire is another possibility, if I can find taps & a die for the job... Fun huh?
   Re-creating these old spokes has taken months so far, & I will likely not get it done in time to ride it this summer... Something great to look forward to for next spring! I am planning on using the original wooden rims, but I am considering using some modern wooden rims, but want to maintain as much originality as possible...
   What a project! When I bought this bike, they guy said "just pump up the tires & she's good to go"... After months of work, trying to rebuild the wheels, and too much thinking about how to get/make spokes & new single tube tires...   
     "At least I'm enjoyin' the ride" 
   Still open for good suggestions...
      Peace,
        Jim


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## Herman (Aug 8, 2009)

If you haven't already,try posting on the Wheelmen site,several people on there should be able to help you with spokes,wood rims,etc.They cater exclusively to pre 1920 bikes


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## pelletman (Aug 11, 2009)

Talk to Jim Spillane 203 245 3642 is his shop number, he is the resident Wheelmen spoke expert


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## MNLTREASURES (Mar 10, 2013)

*spokes*



Bikephreak said:


> Okay, I have been working on getting my old Columbia chainless into rideable condition. I have some 16 gauge stainless wire, with little bearings brazed on for the hub end of the spokes (just like the original spokes)... now for the next engineering problem. Nipples for 16 gauge wire! The original Pope Mfg. spokes are swaged at the nipple end. I don't know if I can even thread the 16 ga wire yet. Any leads to 3/4" nipples for 16 ga. wire? I have an odd bailout plan of brazing some 2mm tubing over the nipple end of the spokes, so I could run it through a Phil spoke cutter & use these nos 3/4" 2.0 ga. nipples. Am I nuts? Any suggestions? If this project is nothing else, it is an exercise of patience...
> Thanks,
> Jim




i made my own using nos original 12" double butted spokes i took 2 pair pliers and carefully bent the end of the spoke straight it worked perfect


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