# Strange European leaf-spring frame? What is it?



## New Mexico Brant

In Amsterdam doing a tribal art fair, I saw this frame and fork on a Dutch classified website.  I made an offer but did not get it, it sold within hours of being posted.  Anyone know what is it?


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## Wcben

No clue but I like it!  Too bad you didnt get it!!ss


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## catfish

Wild!


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## Robertriley

Wow! just WOW!


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## New Mexico Brant

Robertriley said:


> Wow! just WOW!



Yes, that is what I thought!


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## Rambler

Really cool frame! Judging from what appear to be chrome components I'm guessing sometime later than 1929.


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## falcondave

Made from girls frame. Cool idea though.


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## rustNspokes

The chain-stays don't appear to have a pivot which is a bit odd. For the spring to have any effect the stays would have to flex, which seems like it would be an issue over time.


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## locomotion

very intriguing!!!   leaf-spring suspension on a bike, right under the nut sack .... could get painful if it would ever break while riding
I don't think that it is a modified ladies frame
it has to have a flex point .... rear stay maybe?  hard to tell


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## Wing Your Heel

The seller found it dumped in the street. If you have time after your tribal art fair Brant, maybe you should have a wander round to see what you can find


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## MrColumbia

locomotion said:


> very intriguing!!!   leaf-spring suspension on a bike, right under the nut sack .... could get painful if it would ever break while riding
> I don't think that it is a modified ladies frame
> it has to have a flex point .... rear stay maybe?  hard to tell




Maybe this was one of those "OH SH*T!" bikes. The designer mocked the frame up and then noticed that he failed to include a pivot point. I've seen worse design mistakes in my life.


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## MrColumbia

One more thought on this frame. The only possible place to put a pivot point that would work on this design is at the crank hanger. I certainly don't see one there though.


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## bricycle

Kool, but arch is a bit exaggerated for actual spring travel path. It appears the frame components could be changed to be made as either Male or Female by simply exchanging a few lugs...pretty slick and money saving idea!


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## cds2323

I'm not convinced that the rear stays are unable to pivot at the bottom bracket. The two lower rear stays could each be attached to a ring that is allowed to pivot around the crank spindle. I can't really see the bottom bracket very well in the picture, but that dust cover is thick and appears to be attached by at least two screws. The dust cover is on both sides and may cover the bearings/cones. Wish there were better pics of the bottom bracket. I can't find anything online.


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## Wing Your Heel

1900s/1910s Centaur cross-frame bicycles were rigidly built, i.e. no pivots, but used lightweight tubing that flexed when ridden. So even if bb is not pivoted, the triangulation of the rear stays could still provide sufficient springing. Bear in mind that only very little flexibility is required in a spring-frame. Spring-frames are bad enough to ride as it is; when the bushes get worn too much flexing makes them atrocious to ride, particularly over bumps.
But the bb may pivot. How it works was not the priority at purchase time. If you're interested, I'll add detail pics after it arrives.

Compare this one and the way its bb pivots -
http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/1930s/1930-1934/1930-s-frame-suspension-springframe-bicycle/


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## Jeff54

New Mexico Brant said:


> In Amsterdam doing a tribal art fair, I saw this frame and fork on a Dutch classified website.  I made an offer but did not get it, it sold within hours of being posted.  Anyone know what is it?
> ]





Yeah there's a pivoting point on the BB it's just not shown . That swing play allowance in the design approx. 6" to stop on rear bars, and front curved bar easily follows the 1st 4 inches or more. , there's no metal on earth that can bend and return drop bars the distance  this thing's got.

T for *Triumph,* Titan, Titanic, Titillating. ?

This looks like some bouncy, bouncy fun.


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## New Mexico Brant

Wing Your Heel said:


> 1900s/1910s Centaur cross-frame bicycles were rigidly built, i.e. no pivots, but used lightweight tubing that flexed when ridden. So even if bb is not pivoted, the triangulation of the rear stays could still provide sufficient springing. Bear in mind that only very little flexibility is required in a spring-frame. Spring-frames are bad enough to ride as it is; when the bushes get worn too much flexing makes them atrocious to ride, particularly over bumps.
> But the bb may pivot. How it works was not the priority at purchase time. If you're interested, I'll add detail pics after it arrives.
> 
> Compare this one and the way its bb pivots -
> http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/1930s/1930-1934/1930-s-frame-suspension-springframe-bicycle/




So it seems you bought the frame and fork?  What is it?


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## Wing Your Heel




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## New Mexico Brant

Wing Your Heel said:


> View attachment 624058



Any updates?


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## oldmtrcyc

You better keep the twins up high and tight.


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## Wing Your Heel

Brant - yes, the update was that I built it up out of parts I bought on french ebay at the same time, and then sold it. 
As i reckoned it was a German bike with suspension, I did a whole piece on it entitled 'springtime for hitler'. But my wife said it was in bad tatste and could be misinterpreted, so i removed that part and just left the pics on -

http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/1930s/1939-2/1939-springtime-for-hitler


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## dnc1

Wing Your Heel said:


> Brant - yes, the update was that I built it up out of parts I bought on french ebay at the same time, and then sold it.
> As i reckoned it was a German bike with suspension, I did a whole piece on it entitled 'springtime for hitler'. But my wife said it was in bad tatste and could be misinterpreted, so i removed that part and just left the pics on -
> 
> http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/1930s/1939-2/1939-springtime-for-hitler
> 
> View attachment 970280
> 
> View attachment 970281
> 
> View attachment 970282
> 
> View attachment 970283
> 
> View attachment 970284



So that's where all those French 'bouncy bits' ended up, Very nice!
I've posted this on the 'Vintage Lightweights ' page recently, people may not have noticed it. A friends unknown 20's/30's 'Vialle Freres' a-like......




Any ideas/knowledge /information gratefully received.
Thanks,
Darren.


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## Wing Your Heel

Darren I sold a Vialle a few years ago. The info is easily found on the internet. Here's its page -   

http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/1920s-3/1927-2/1927-vialle-freres-bicyclette-elastique/


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## dnc1

Wing Your Heel said:


> Darren I sold a Vialle a few years ago. The info is easily found on the internet. Here's its page -
> 
> http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/1920s-3/1927-2/1927-vialle-freres-bicyclette-elastique/



Thanks Colin,
I looked at your site re. this unknown bicycle when I was trying to find info for the owner and my friend who reassembled/ restored it.
Drew a blank completely, I think this is a little later than the Vialle examples I've seen, possibly an artisan made one-off. Although it's very well made.
Here's the thread:
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/unknown-help-needed-please.139903/
Thanks again.


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