# Firestone Pilot



## kelly (Nov 21, 2009)

Hello Everbody, I'm new here and need some help with a Firestone Pilot. I'm trying find out it's vintage by way of serial#. 
I have looked at all the pictures that could be had so far and I have not seen or found another with a solid steel half inch L shaped seat post and skiptooth sprocket setup.
Any and all help would be very much apperciated, 
                          Kelly


----------



## OldRider (Nov 21, 2009)

I think your l shaped seatpost is a "lucky seven" seatpost, i believe fairly common on prewar bikes.


----------



## kelly (Nov 22, 2009)

Now I see a seven, how "lucky" it will be is yet to be seen, but hope it will be. I saw a couple of them, they looked to be about 3/4 inch and then taper down to a 1/2 inch right under the seat but mine is a solid 1/2 rod the upright post where it slides into is tapered down and has a tapered clamp for only a 1/2 inch post. Are there any makers that were known to do this?  Maybe this could lead meto a maker and closer to a year of porduction.

Thank You 
Kelly


----------



## Strings-n-Spokes (Nov 22, 2009)

Kelly

Firestone contracted many bike makers for their bikes.

Solid 'L' seatposts were more common on pre war bikes.

I saw a Firestone Pilot on Ebay that was made by Murray(I think), Which I hadn't seen before.

I'll post a link to that auction, to see if it is like yours.
I think that Colson was another company that made Pilots for Firestone, but that may  not be correct.

It may be a matter of finding a bike just like yours with the makers badge on it.  If you can post a pic it would help.

Here is that auction
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280425854384&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


----------



## kelly (Nov 22, 2009)

Shane 
Thank You for the link I did see that on EBay and it is quite colse to what I have, at least that bike ha all the O.E. paint mines been repainted and I going to try to remove it with any luck I won't damage the paint underneath. 
I have the serial# and I think some extra numbers also,
serial# 9A13  /  179-722X8  / 200126 are all stamped on the bottom of the crank housing. I feel that the first and second are very old if not O.E. the last is maybe from a tracking registartion program like Police department.
I'll post some pictures to see if will help


Thanks

Kelly


----------



## kelly (Nov 22, 2009)

I hope these pictures may help.

Thank You

Kelly


----------



## Strings-n-Spokes (Nov 22, 2009)

The fender braces are interesting. Not flat, but wider than usual stamped braces.

I could still be off on the manufacturer, I believe that it is either Murray or Westfield(Columbia)

You are missing the truss rods which came out of the plate, extending from the bottom of the gooseneck.  This plate is the same as the  kind you would find on an Elgin.

the frame extends up at the seat post  a few inches on both bikes, so they are from the same maker and likely within a year or two of each other.

The front sprocket looks a little out of place, at least to my eye.  It is possible that it was replaced, sometime, the smaller cog making it easier to pedal.

hope this helps


----------



## kelly (Nov 22, 2009)

Hey,thanks Shane. I'll look at Murray and Westfield/Columbia, I read somewhere about Murray but this Westfield is new to me.

The front sprocket looks like a Schwinn but I'm not sure.

The plate on the neck doesn't have any markings on it so I guess it could be from anything. 

Are there any place to look up the serial# for Firestone Pilot that you know of?

After seeing some of the prices on these bikes do you or know where the values can be looked up?

Thank You 

Kelly


----------



## Strings-n-Spokes (Nov 22, 2009)

Using the serial number for a date won't work until a maker is determined.

For instance, a firestone Pilot made by Colson and one made by Murray will only have numbers that correspond to that manufacturer, even though they are the 'same' bike.

The truss rod plate is identical to my Murray made Elgin.  The seat is also not original, it's more of a 50's style.

I am going to guess mid 30's, but once someone has a positive ID on the frame there is a good chance that the there will be a serial number chart.

IDK on value, I am terrible at putting price tags on stuff, someone will likely chime in on that also.


----------



## kelly (Nov 22, 2009)

Shane, thank you for your help, and congrat on your new addition to your family, I did not know that Sears had there own line of bicycles. 
I only wish that my bicycle was so clean and complete.

Kelly


----------



## kelly (Nov 22, 2009)

Shane would this bicycle be considered a baloon tire or a middleweight?

Kelly


----------



## Strings-n-Spokes (Nov 22, 2009)

Balloon Tired    Middlewieght bikes did not really show up until the late 50's

Yes Elgin bikes were sold by Sears until WW2 after the war, their bike line became JC Higgins,  some early postwar Higgins were almost identical to Elgins, since they were using surviving pre war stock.

Wards bikes were Hawthorne, both before and after the war.


----------



## kelly (Nov 22, 2009)

Thank you for all the info, You don't know how much I do appreciate the leads.

Thanks

Kelly


----------



## Strings-n-Spokes (Nov 23, 2009)

You are very welome.

Hope you enjoy the Cabe.  I think it is by far the best venue to learn about these old bikes.


----------



## kelly (Nov 23, 2009)

Shane
While cleaning the rear hub I saw on the coster break leaver " THE MUSSELMAN HUB BRAKE CO. Pat# 1911461 Model M.

I looked it up and the pat# was applied for Nov. 15 / 1930 and was issued May 1933.

Now to start running the serial# on the bike past the different possable makers...

Thanks Again

Kelly


----------



## Adamtinkerer (Nov 23, 2009)

The 'collared' frame joint at the seat post is a Murray giveaway. Also, the large truss rod plate. I believe that is a Schwinn chainring on there. Murray built bikes for Firestone late 40s-early 50s. Here's mine:


----------



## 37fleetwood (Nov 23, 2009)

from the 1947 catalog:


----------



## SimpleMan (Nov 23, 2009)

I would say it's definitely a Murray built Firestone. According to Phil this frame design came out post war. The early ones had rearward facing dropouts like mine. Looks like Adam's is exactly the same frame.

Nice ad Scott!


----------



## kelly (Nov 23, 2009)

Thank you both for your info, I'm gaining info and knowlage on this bicycle I really hate to call it a bike because anything that can last this long and look this good had to be built with craftmanship and pride. This is usable art, something to be used and enjoyed for many generations to come hopefully. 
I just think it's cool to be able to ride a bicycle that has been over God only knows miles how many states its been to, people that have rode it and it still endures.
Not like the junk that can be had at Walmart made in another country then shipped here.
I will ride with pride knowing that it was made here by Americans, owned by Americans and built by Americans that took pride in there jobs, country, and families.

Thank you for your help and remember to ride with pride.
Kelly


----------



## 37fleetwood (Nov 23, 2009)

all the Murray made Firestones are post war. in the 1948 catalog it looks about the same, in the 1949 catalog it has the later tall headbadge.


----------



## kelly (Nov 23, 2009)

Scott, I saw that in another chat that you had a good amount of serial # info on huffman do you have any idea of the same for firestone numbers? I do understand that since the bicycles were made by different makers tracking can be difficult but they have to have some way of tracking by features such as the seat post "lucky seven" name badge and serial # all would seem to give some type of solid clues as to vintage and more so a true maker.

Kelly


----------



## 37fleetwood (Nov 24, 2009)

I have no serial data on any makers other than Huffman and even that is readily available in the database I started here at the cabe. I have most of the catalogs for Firestone, your bike starts in 1947 and ends in 1948. the 1946 catalog doesn't show anything like your bike and the 1949 as mentioned is about the same bike but has a totally different head badge. I'm not sure if anyone has Murray serial info. 1947-8 may be as close as you can get.


----------



## kelly (Nov 24, 2009)

Hey Scott, 
Thanks alot that is what I've been trying to find is something that would narrow down to a few years and hopefully a maker. When I took on this quest for linage I had no idea of firestone or all the makers of these bikes which seems to really make it hard to pinpoint any exacting info.

Kelly


----------



## Adamtinkerer (Nov 24, 2009)

"I'm not sure if anyone has Murray serial info. 1947-8 may be as close as you can get."                                                                                                           -Check with 30thbird, he has them figured out from I think 49 to the 60s or 70s. If I remember, the year was a letter code thru the late 50s.


----------



## ram.1950 (Nov 24, 2009)

Hi! I bought the one on Ebay. So would you say because of the short head badge that one is also a 1947-48? I haven't even received the bike yet and have already gotten so much information - thanks alot.


----------



## kelly (Nov 25, 2009)

Adam
Thanks for the lead 30thbird, I'll check with him and see what up.

I guess with all the makers over all these years it gets really cloudy on the heritage, history and vintage of these bicycles.
I would have thought that certain quirks would be a dead give away by now, like the 1/2 inch solid rod "lucky seven" seat post and the way the serial# is stamped on the crank housing, I have never seen one stamped like this before it just seems strange,

                9A13

           179-722X8

              200126

This is the way they are stamped on the frame, I think the last set are form a police/fire registeration program but the first two I don't uderstand if it's model# and serial# or what, it just seems strange the way they are stamped. The numbers and letters all seem to be uniform in depth, size and font. Also the way they are layed out seem strange if they are to be used as a single serial#. 
I would figure that this trait if not common practice would be a quick clue along with say the seat post both of them together would give a close idea of maker and year without having to get to exacts.

Kelly


----------



## kelly (Nov 25, 2009)

Ram1950
When you get that bicycle let me know. I would like to compare them and see what the differences are.


Kelly


----------



## Strings-n-Spokes (Nov 25, 2009)

Holy Cow Ram1950!! You sure got the deal of the day on that one!!


----------

