# Trying To Locate Tires For 1898-99 Bike



## RichardD (Mar 16, 2016)

I'm looking for a set of tires that fit the wooden rims on our 1898-99 Pirate bike.  The rims measure 25" dia. by 1 1/4" wide.  Photos of this bike have been previously posted on this forum.  Would someone help me locate these tires?  I have previously been given a link to the Universal Tire website.  Some possible tires there go for $118 each.  Are there different tires, depending on the rim width, or back then, were most rims the same width?
Thanks for any help you can provide.
http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/new-member-question-about-an-1898-racer.86619/


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## pelletman (Mar 17, 2016)

The great majority were 28 x 1.5"  There were narrower and wider, you probably need narrower so you will have to look for originals


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## oldspoke (Mar 17, 2016)

RichardD said:


> I'm looking for a set of tires that fit the wooden rims on our 1898-99 Pirate bike.  The rims measure 25" dia. by 1 1/4" wide.  Photos of this bike have been previously posted on this forum.  Would someone help me locate these tires?  I have previously been given a link to the Universal Tire website.  Some possible tires there go for $118 each.  Are there different tires, depending on the rim width, or back then, were most rims the same width?
> Thanks for any help you can provide.
> http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/new-member-question-about-an-1898-racer.86619/





RichardD said:


> I'm looking for a set of tires that fit the wooden rims on our 1898-99 Pirate bike.  The rims measure 25" dia. by 1 1/4" wide.  Photos of this bike have been previously posted on this forum.  Would someone help me locate these tires?  I have previously been given a link to the Universal Tire website.  Some possible tires there go for $118 each.  Are there different tires, depending on the rim width, or back then, were most rims the same width?
> Thanks for any help you can provide.
> http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/new-member-question-about-an-1898-racer.86619/



Hello,

I would use Bob Dean's tires . Slightly wider at 28 x 1 1/2 but they look great and would look super on your cycle. They are available in white,black,or red. I would suggest white or black.
I simply install them with out glue unless I plan to ride the bike. They are not cheap but in my opinion look the best. Cost is around $150 - $175 each shipped, I believe.
Bob's contact - A50CROSLEYTRK@aol.com 
He is R.D. Tire Co. and a really good Guy.
Hope this helps,
Glenn


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## RichardD (Mar 17, 2016)

So...... I get the impression that tire size was listed by the outside diameter, and not the inside dia. (which would be the rim)? Is that correct?  
Glenn, thanks for the info.  I really would not plan on trying to ride this baby. 

Pelletman, thanks also.  I wouldn't have imagined that tires would cost close to those for a car.


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## bricycle (Mar 17, 2016)

RichardD said:


> So...... I get the impression that tire size was listed by the outside diameter, and not the inside dia. (which would be the rim)? Is that correct?
> Glenn, thanks for the info.  I really would not plan on trying to ride this baby.
> 
> Pelletman, thanks also.  I wouldn't have imagined that tires would cost close to those for a car.




Is that correct?  YES.  be careful in buying the "Universals" as they may be the *hard* solid semi-pneumatic variety. Robert Dean's is the way to go.


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## bricycle (Mar 17, 2016)

Prices ($150+) are what they are because there is not a high demand for them like auto tires. Even tire makers (Coker Tire co) charged more ($172) last I read, not including shipping.
If you are not riding, you may wish to purchase a pair of originals that have a crack or do not currently hold air, they may be cheaper than the Universals, and still will show well.


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## bikejunk (Mar 17, 2016)

I would like to see anyone come even close to what Robert dean makes for 150 bucks .I have 3 pairs so far and they ride nice and hold air really well - tires have always been expensive look at adds from the 1900s they were 5 dollars each some of them more


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## RichardD (Mar 17, 2016)

bricycle said:


> Prices ($150+) are what they are because there is not a high demand for them like auto tires. Even tire makers (Coker Tire co) charged more ($172) last I read, not including shipping.
> If you are not riding, you may wish to purchase a pair of originals that have a crack or do not currently hold air, they may be cheaper than the Universals, and still will show well.




Do you have any idea where I could start looking for a pair that aren't "rideable", but still good enough to display?
I think I could afford to do that at this time.  Maybe better tires could be purchased at a later date.
Thanks for any leads.


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## locomotion (Mar 19, 2016)

bricycle said:


> Is that correct?  YES.  be careful in buying the "Universals" as they may be the *hard* solid semi-pneumatic variety. Robert Dean's is the way to go.



I like the Universal tires, they look great on the bike, and not all TOC bikes are riders (on original rims).
RD tires, IMO, just don't look good at all. Never seen that design on ANY TOC bikes.
If you want to ride the bike and keep it at a reasonable price, I would find wood clinchers (Amish or other) and then you have a wide range of possible tires and sizes.
Price for price.
non-riders, show bikes.......Universal.com
riders........amish wood clinchers, with your choice of tires


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## Wheeled Relics (Mar 29, 2016)




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## locomotion (Mar 29, 2016)

congrats you might have found the ONLY example that "somewhat" looks like a RD tire +
the RD is on a steel rim (looks clincher as well) .... waste of money IMO

black tire off my 1898 Pierce Cycle, wood rim
White is Universal on my 1902 Sears & Roebuck, wood rim


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## Andrew Gorman (Mar 29, 2016)

For display only, just get a cheap set of Bell no-mor flats solid inner tubes- the 26" will stretch onto the 28" rims.  Quick, easy, cheap and look the part:
http://s53.photobucket.com/user/gormanao/library/Polyurethane?sort=3&page=1
You can ride on them if glued down, but they are soft, draggy and wear quickly.
If the rims are narrow, cyclocross sew-up tires don't look quite right- but you can grind off the lugs- but ride very very nicely.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cyc...e&ie=UTF-8#q=cyclocross+sew-ups+700c&tbm=shop


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## bricycle (Mar 30, 2016)

RichardD said:


> Do you have any idea where I could start looking for a pair that aren't "rideable", but still good enough to display?
> I think I could afford to do that at this time.  Maybe better tires could be purchased at a later date.
> Thanks for any leads.




I'll dig and see what I may have still....


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## RichardD (Mar 31, 2016)

Andrew Gorman said:


> For display only, just get a cheap set of Bell no-mor flats solid inner tubes- the 26" will stretch onto the 28" rims.  Quick, easy, cheap and look the part:
> http://s53.photobucket.com/user/gormanao/library/Polyurethane?sort=3&page=1
> You can ride on them if glued down, but they are soft, draggy and wear quickly.
> If the rims are narrow, cyclocross sew-up tires don't look quite right- but you can grind off the lugs- but ride very very nicely.
> https://www.google.com/search?q=cyc...e&ie=UTF-8#q=cyclocross+sew-ups+700c&tbm=shop





I guess I'm still a little mixed up on rim sizes.
As I stated before, the actual dimension of the rims is 25 inches in diameter and 1 1/4 inches wide.
When you say the 26" tires will stretch on to the 28" rims, I'm confused.
If we were talking about car tires,  a 215/65R15 tire spec means it will fit a 15" rim.
Do bike tires always get listed by the outside diameter of the tire, and not the rim size they fit?

Just trying to understand this all.

Richard


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## bricycle (Mar 31, 2016)

RichardD said:


> I guess I'm still a little mixed up on rim sizes.
> As I stated before, the actual dimension of the rims is 25 inches in diameter and 1 1/4 inches wide.
> When you say the 26" tires will stretch on to the 28" rims, I'm confused.
> If we were talking about car tires,  a 215/65R15 tire spec means it will fit a 15" rim.
> ...




Andrew is talking about 26" *TUBES.* these are solid puncture proof (not inflatable) tubes that apparently stretch over the 25" wheels and still look a bit like tires.


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## bricycle (Mar 31, 2016)

Richard, bike tires can (and do) often do get confusing. Example: 26 x 1.75 and 26 x 1 3/4 you would THINK are the same...*no, no, no!* the 26 x 1 3/4" are Schwinn tires that only fit taller S -7 Schwinn wheels, Likewise, 26 x 1 3/8" (European) are even taller than the Schwinn wheels.
Just ask here, and someone should give you the correct answer.


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## highwheel431 (Mar 31, 2016)

*Bicycle tires are double marked.  The ETRTO numbers are what you have to match up to ensure the tire will fit the rim.  I am a past President of the Tire and Rim Association which is the US equivalent of ETRTO and I still get confused over bicycle tire markings.  The info below is from the Schwable website.*
* http://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/size_markings*

*SizeMarkings*
*What do the various size markings on bicycle tires mean? *
Nowadays, bicycle tire sizes are all marked according to ETRTO (*E*uropean *T*ire and *R*im *T*echnical *O*rganization) European standard.However, older English and French tire size dimensions are still used as well.

The ETRTO size specification 37-622 indicates the width of 37 mm and the tire inner diameter of 622 mm. This dimension is clear and allows for precise classification of the rim size.

*Inch Marking* (e.g. 28 x 1.40) states the approximate outer diameter (28 inches) and the tire width (1.40 inches). Inch marking such as 28 x 1 5/8 x 1 3/8 (approximate outer diameter x tire height x tire width) is also common.

Inch sizes are not precise and lack accuracy. For example, diameters 559 mm (MTB), 571 mm (Triathlon) and 590 mm (Touring) are all classified as 26 inch. Tires with diameters 622 mm and 635 mm are both classified as 28-inch. Oddly enough, tires with an inner diameter of 630 mm are classified as 27-inch.

These classifications originate from the time of tire brakes. In those days, the exact outer diameter of the tire was defined by the brake. Depending on tire width, various standards for the inner diameter applied.

*Inch dimensions* are widely used in both MTB sport and English language countries. Therefore, we will continue to use these specifications for all tires. In the future, only inch decimal measurements will be used e.g. 26 x 2.25. Experience tells us that nowadays very few users are familiar with the classical fractional inch dimensions such as, 28 x 1 5/8 x 1 3/8.

When the 29 inch MTB tire size was introduced a few years ago it had the same inner diameter of 622mm, known as 28" in Europe.
French size markings (e.g. 700 x 35C) give the approximate tire outer diameter (700 mm) and width (35mm). The letter at the end indicates the inner diameter of the tire. In this case, C stands for 622 mm.

*French size markings* are not used for all tire sizes, so, for example, it is not used for MTB sizes.




*Size Designations Overview *
  ETRTO Inch French
Size designation 37-622 28 x 1.40"
28 x 1 5/8 x 1 3/8" 700x35c
Outer diameter - Approx. 28" Approx. 700mm
Inner diameter 622 mm - -
Tire section width Approx. 37 mm Approx. 1.40"
Approx. 1 3/8" Approx. 35 mm
Tire section height - Approx. 1 5/8" -


*How many tire sizes are there? *
The following table shows all common tire sizes This table lists, where applicable, a corresponding ETRTO-size for virtually every tire size.

  ETRTO Inch French
7" 47-93 7 x 1 3/4  
8" 47-94
20 x 47-50 8 x 2


50-94 200 x 50  
54-110 8 x 2 1/8 8 1/2 x 2  
32-137 8 x 1 1/4  
10" 54-152 44-194 10 x 2 10 x 1 5/8  
11" 47-222 11 x 13/4  
12" 47-203 12 1/2 x 1.75 12 1/2 x 1.90  
54-203 12 x 1.95  
57-203 12 1/2 x 2 1/4 R  
62-203 12 1/2 x 2 1/4  
32-239 12 1/2 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/4 300 x 32A
57-239 12 1/2 x 2 1/4 300 x 55A
14" 57-251 14 1/2 x 2 1/4 300 x 55A
47-254 14 x 1.75 14 x 1.90  
40-279 14 x 11/2 350 x 38B
37-288 14 x 1 5/8 x 1 3/8 350A 350A 350A Confort 350A Ballon 350A 1/2Ballon 350 x 32A
40-288 14 x 1 5/8 350 x 38A
44-288 14 x 1 5/8 x 1 3/8 350A 350 x 42A
32-298 14 x 1 1/4 350A 350 x 32A
16" 40-305 16 x 1.50  
47-305 16 x 1.75 16 x 1.90  
54-305 16 x 1.95 16 x 2.00  
57-305 16 x 2.125  
40-330 16 x 1 1/2 400 x 38B
28-340   400 x 30A
32-340 16 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/4 400A 400 x 32A
37-340 16 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/4 400 x 35A 400A Confort 400A Ballon 400A 1/2 Ballon
44-340 16 x 1 5/8  
28-349 16 x 11/8  
32-349 16 x 11/4 NL  
37-349 16 x 1 3/8  
17" 32-357 17 x 1 1/4  
37-369 17 x 1 1/4  
18" 28-355 18 x 1 1/8  
40-355 18 x 1.50  
47-355 18 x 1.75 18 x 1.90  
37-387 18 x 1 3/8  
40-387 18 x 1 1/2  
28-390 18 x 1 1/8 450 x 28A 450A
37-390 18 x 1 3/8 450 x 35A 450A 450A Confort 450A Ballon 450A 1/2Ballon
55-390   450 x 55A
57-390   450 x 55A 450A
37-400 18 x 1 3/8  
20" 54-400 20 x 2 x 1 3/4 20 x 2F4J  
28-406 20 x 1 1/8  
32-406 20 x 1.25  
35-406 20 x 1.35  
37-406 20 x 1 3/8  
40-406 20 x 1.50  
44-406 20 x 1.625  
47-406 20 x 1.75 20 x 1.90  
50-406 20 x 2.00  
54-406 20 x 2.00  
57-406 20 x 2.125  
54-428 20 x 2.00  
40-432 20 x 1 1/2  
37-438 20 x 1 3/8 500A
40-438 20 x 1 3/8 500 x 38A
28-440   500 x 28A 500A 500A Standard
40-440 20 x 1 1/2NL 500 x 38A
28-451 20 x 1 1/8  
37-451 20 x 1 3/8 B.S.  
22" 44-484 22 x 15/8 x 11/2  
25-489 22 x 1.00  
37-489 22 x 1 3/8 NL  
40-489 22 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/2  
50-489 22 x 2.00  
28-490   550 x 28A 550A 550A Standard
32-490 22 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/4 550 x 32A 550A
37-490 22 x 13/8 550 x 35A 550A Confort 550A Ballon 550A 1/2 Ballon
37-498 22 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/4  
32-501 22 x 1 1/4  
37-501 22 x 1 3/8  
24" 40-507 24 x 1.50  
44-507 24 x 1.625 24 x 1.75  
47-507 24 x 1.75 24 x 1.85/1.90  
49-507 24 x 1.85  
50-507 24 x 1.90/2.00 24 x 2.00 24 x 2.125  
54-507 24 x 2.10  
57-507 24 x 2.125 24 x 2.00  
60-507 24 x 2.35  
44-531 24 x 1 5/8 x 1 1/2  
40-534 24 x 1 1/2  
25-540 24 x 1.00  
32-540 24 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/4 24 x 1 3/8  
37-540 24 x 1 3/8  
40-540 24 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/2  
22-541    
25-541   600 x 25A
28-541   600 x 28A 600A 600A Standard
32-541 24 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/4 N4 600 x 32A
37-541   600 x 35A 600A Confort 600A Ballon 600A 1/2 Ballon
26" 25-559 26 x 1.00  
35-559 26 x 1.35  
37-559 26 x 1 5/8 x 1 3/8 26 x 1.40  
40-559 26 x 1.50  
44-559 26 x 1.625 26 x 1.50/1.75  
47-559 26 x 1.75 26 x 1.85/1.90  
50-559 26 x 1.90 26 x 1.95 26 x 1.90/2.00 26 x 2.00/2.10  
54-559 26 x 1.95 26 x 2.10 26 x 2.125  
57-559 26 x 2.125 26 x 2.20/2.25  
60-559 26 x 2.35  
62-559 26 x 2.50  
20-571 26 x 3/4 650 x 20C
23-571 26 x 7/8 650 x 22C
40-571 26 x 1 1/2 CS 26 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/2 NL 26 x 1 5/8 x 1 1/2 650 x 35C 650 x 38C
47-571 26 x 1 3/4 650 CS confort 650 x 45C
54-571 26 x 2 x 1 3/4 650 x 50C
28-584 26 x 1 1/8 x 1 1/2 650 x 28B
32-584   650 x 32B
35-584 26 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/2 650 x 35B 650B Standard
37-584 26 x 1 1/2 x 1 3/8 26 x 1 1/2 650 x 35B
40-584 26 x 1 5/8 x 1 1/2 650 x 42B 650B Semi-Confort 650B 1/2 Ballon
20-590   650 x 20A
25-590 26 x 1 1/8, 1 1/4 26 x 1 3/8 - 1 1/4 650 x 32A
28-590 26 x 1 1/8 650 x 28A
32-590 26 x 1 1/4 26 x 1 3/8 x1 1/4 650 x 32A
35-590 26 x 1 3/8 650 x 35A
37-590 26 x 1 3/8 650 x 35A 650A
40-590 26 x 1.50 28 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/2 650 x 38A
44-590    
32-597 26 x 1 1/4  
27" 40-609 27 x 1 1/2  
20-630 27 x 3/4  
22-630 27 x 7/8  
25-630 27 x 1.00 27 x 1 1/16  
28-630 27 x 1 1/8 27 x 1 1/4 Fifty 27 x 1 1/4  
32-630 27 x 1 1/4  
28/32-630 27 x 1 1/4  
35-630 27 x 1 3/8  
28" 18-622 28 x 3/4 700 x 18C
19-622   700 x 19C
20-622 28 x 3/4 700 x 20C
22-622 28 x 7/8 700 x 22C
23-622 28 x 7/8 700 x 23C
25-622 28 x 1.00, 1 1/16 700 x 25C
30-622 28 x 1.20 700 x 28C
28-622 28 x 1 5/8 x 1 1/8 700 x 30C
32-622 28 x 15/8 x 11/4 700 x 32C 700C COURSE
35-622 28 x 15/8 x 13/8 700 x 35C
37-622 28 x 1 5/8 x 1 3/8 700 x 35C
40-622 28 x 1.50 28 x 1 5/8 x 1 1/2 700 x 38C
42-622 28 x 1.60 700 x 40C
44-622 28 x 1.625 700 x 42C
47-622 28 x 1.75 700 x 45C
50-622 28 x 1.90 28 x 2.00  
60-622 28 x 2.35  
32-635 28 x 1 1/2 x 1 1/8 770 x 28B 700 x 28B 770B COURSE
40-635 28 x 1 1/2 28 x 1 1/2 x 1 3/8 700 x 38B 700 x 35B 700 Standard 700B Standard
44-635 28 x 15/8 x 11/2 700 x 40/42B
28-642 28 x 1 3/8 x 1 1/8 700 x 28A
37-642 28 x 1 3/8 700 x 35A


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## Andrew Gorman (Mar 31, 2016)

As you can see from the last post, bicycle tires have some strange designations but the outside diameter  is usually used as the common name.  Which leads to much wailing and gnashing of teeth.  Like 26X1 3/8 not being the same as 26X .375"... For a good laugh look at 650A, B, and C tires and their dimensions.  The no-mor flats 26" OD tubes will stretch over the 25" OD "28 inch" rims and seat pretty tightly. Saint Sheldon has a good run down at:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html


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## filmonger (Apr 2, 2016)

What Andrew said!!!!!!!!.......Sheldon is an easy read and explains it very well - lots of charts....this is what I call recommended reading. Though, the past press's info above is a great list - sheldon will put it in perspective.

As far as tire options in the day......have a look at the literature of the day - yu will see what options were avail then.

https://archive.org/details/smithsonian?and[]=subject:"cycling"

Tire width is another issue one must consider.... also on Sheldons site.

There are a few tubular modern options you can consider as well as Deans if you want riders.


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## rickpaulos (Apr 11, 2016)

Shedon's site is fine for clincher tires.  But you stated your bike was from the late 1800's. That is completely different. The 1800 - 1920ish tires are "single tube" style. The inner tube is fully enclosed within the tire casing and the tire casing is glued to the rim.  The rim profile is a gentle curve without any side walls to hold the tire in place.  Fortunately most of those wheels/tires are the same size which is quite similar to racing sew ups (very narrow).  Riding without proper gluing is a disaster sure to happen.  Contact adhesive is the most common glue.

The Sheldon Brown tables are mostly for clincher tires. Open bottom tires (like modern car tires) with wire (or kevlar) beads and separate inner tubes. The side walls hold the air pressure.  The ERTO sizes are the bead seat diameter which is the critical dimension for proper fit. The outer diameter of the tire varys (even for the same rim size) with the width of the tire and the amount of tread on it.    There is no situation in bicycles where the outer diameter of tire is an exact measurement for tire sizing.  Many of the clincher sizes have their roots in the 1920s or later.  And yes, it's quite confusing.  7 sizes of 26" wheels alone.  Most new tires have the sizes molded in. Whew.

As for pricing, economy of scale keeps tires cheap.  Adjusting for inflation, those 1904 Sears Roebuck catalog prices for tires equate to about $150 today.  The tires you would want were hand made in 1900 and are hand made now.  $150 is down quite a bit from 25-30 years ago when they were running closer to $300 each.  There are some interesting videos on YouTube of bicycle tire factory tours and it still takes quite a bit of hand work, even with the highly specialized machines.

I've seen some 1900 era bikes with rebuilt wheels using modern clincher rims so the bikes can be ridden.  Some use black rims or faked wood grain rims to try to keep some of the original look.  You spend just as much or more but a puncture won't break the bank.  Ghisallo makes clincher rims in wood that could be finished to match and will take modern clincher tires and inner tubes.  My one remaining single tube tire bike ~1922 has what I thought were metal cased rims. One day I noticed the joint was starting to separate and I realized they were painted in a silver paint that looked just like metal.

Rick


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## filmonger (Apr 20, 2016)

Giovanni has some deans for sale in the for sale section...

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/robert-dean-28-white-single-tube-tires-for-sale.88836/


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