# Who says they're only original once..



## sad bike guy (Jul 30, 2012)

This is certainly, umm, original.  http://www.ratrodbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=60316

The thing that I don't get about the rat rod bikes forum is how congratulatory everyone is, I want to sign up and be like "dude that bike was awseome and you ruined it!"  but it seems like people never do that on there.  Are the negative comments removed?  Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed with some of the craftsmanship and creativity certain members display but so much of it just seems like such a waste of time and bike parts.


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## Mole (Jul 30, 2012)

*The hardest thing to remember...*

is that it takes all kinds.

You (the general use of you, not the OP specifically) never _really_ know what you like or dislike until you see something that definitely turns you off or on. Imagine how boring it'd be if everyone had the same bike with the same paint scheme. We'd always be arguing whether or not this chip or that chip is a plus or minus to the 'originality' of said bike versus how we like one type of frame style/ tank/ no tank fendered/ fenderlesslights or whirly-gigs over another.


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## fordsnake (Jul 30, 2012)

*I posted this response earlier on another thread...*



sad bike guy said:


> This is certainly, umm, original.  http://www.ratrodbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=60316
> 
> The thing that I don't get about the rat rod bikes forum is how congratulatory everyone is, I want to sign up and be like "dude that bike was awseome and you ruined it!"  but it seems like people never do that on there.  Are the negative comments removed?  Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed with some of the craftsmanship and creativity certain members display but so much of it just seems like such a waste of time and bike parts.




Unlike the CABE forum which is entrenched in the preservation and the restoration of classic and antique bicycles. The Rat Rod forum is dedicated to builders and creative minded folks that thrive in a world of imagination; modification, and crafting. Those guys are the embodiment of experimentation and the “what if” school of thinking…what if I try this” or “what if I do this?” Their mantra is “ I’ve got nothing to lose! ”  And yes, they're extremely supportive of each other’s vision, no matter how big or small the idea…all negativity is checked at the door...I don't think negative posts are censored...but the community will quickly ostracize you if you do.

For the last few month I’ve been working designing and building bikes for their build-off competition…If you'd like you can follow my progress at:http://www.ratrodbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=57039


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## Dave K (Jul 30, 2012)

There are so many frames available and so few complete bike it is a shame to do that to a compete bike.  What a bummer


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## slick (Jul 30, 2012)

Look on the bright side, he sold the tank and all the rest of the valuable parts to build an absolute PILE for free with lots of profit i bet as well. That's why i don't go on that site anymore. Lots of artsy, fartsy bikes with the idea of: let's see how much useless junk i can find to bolt onto my bike and it will look kool and probably fall apart! Sweet!! NOT! It's just like the ratrod car trend. How low to the ground can i get this rusty pile, how unsafe can i make it, how cheap can i build it, how many skulls can i bolt onto it, how can i add more bullet holes to it, how much chicken wire for the windows will i need, etc..... And after it's all said and done, some people think it's kool, while the rest of us wouldn't give a dime for it because the original body is ruined with horrible crap and booger welds that are unsafe.

The point is this, custom is kool to a point. If you plan on keeping it forever then ruin it anyway you want, but if you plan on selling it at some point, only a few people, if any, might like it and the odds of you selling it will work against you unless it's done tastefull to appeal to everyone. If not, the next guy has to round up the rare parts you ruined to change it back.


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## scrubbinrims (Jul 30, 2012)

It would have been a travesty if the bike had been in better condition, but as it stands it is disappointing.
There are plenty of bicycle carcasses to work with, why use a prewar survivor?
That elgin should have been a protected species.
Chris


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## 37fleetwood (Jul 30, 2012)

it's all been said, the one he started wasn't exactly a prize anyway, there are better ones out there. that site has been a disappointment to me, I used to participate in the build off until it became way too much crap on a bike. I built some neat looking bikes tastefully done and didn't get anywhere. it's all about the one with the most salt shakers, and candlesticks taped to it now. not to mention none of them are Rat Rods anyway. the whole point of a Rat Rod is for it to be Ratty, those are all painted nicely and re chromed and polished. build a Rat over there and you won't get any votes in the build off. how are you going to make a Rat Rod out of a modern Felt? it's like building a Rat Rod out of a '95 Civic!:eek:


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## Gary Mc (Jul 30, 2012)

I spend a lot of time on both sites and many if not most guys over there will not do that to a complete significant prewar bike.  They can make more money selling it or parting it out and find something else to rat rod.  However just as original bikes get parted out on the CABE, same happens at RRB.  As someone else said, some great parts got sold to help others complete their restorations and a RRB'er delivered on his vision for that bicycle whether you like it or not.  It is really is no different than parting out great originals which I see happen on both sites daily as the parts are much more valuable than most whole bikes.

At RRB it's bring your enthusiasm for the hobby, bring your creativity, and check any negativity at the door.  Every bike over there is beautiful to the guy who built it so why try to bring him down because you don't like it.  Find something good to say if possible, comment on it if you have something positive to say (otherwise go to another thread without bringing him/her down), help him with ideas if requested.  It's more of a brotherhood of encouragement and some of the RRBers' build some really beautiful bikes and I agree to some it is just how much you can add to a bike but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  BTW, there are A LOT of us that participate in both forums.  The CABE is a different sort of brotherhood and it is to mostly build correct original bikes.  Here many of us need people to tell us what we are doing correct & wrong in order to get a bike correct in the end if that is your desire.  I welcome input here, both good & bad because I need to know if I got it correct on a restoration.  I spend a lot more time these days on the CABE as restoration is more up my alley as I get deeper into the hobby but I love both sites but they are very different and that is OK with me.


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## Buster1 (Jul 30, 2012)

I think that giving life to an old bike with close to no hope of restoration or refurb is cool.  Throw some crazy tires and rims on it, a sweet seat, and maybe paint...either way, as long as it's not a nice vintage bike that has been destroyed, but instead a mess that's now rideable...if done right...is pretty fun.


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## Larmo63 (Jul 30, 2012)

sad bike guy said:


> This is certainly, umm, original.  http://www.ratrodbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=60316
> 
> The thing that I don't get about the rat rod bikes forum is how congratulatory everyone is, I want to sign up and be like "dude that bike was awseome and you ruined it!"  but it seems like people never do that on there.  Are the negative comments removed?  Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed with some of the craftsmanship and creativity certain members display but so much of it just seems like such a waste of time and bike parts.




I couldn't agree more. You are not alone.


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## sad bike guy (Jul 30, 2012)

I think some of you have missed my point,  Which was kind of in line with what 37fleetwood said.  The bike was a beautiful "RAT" to start with, the word Ratrod has lost it's meaning and has mutated into meaning something more along the lines of gaudy-custom.  Where's the patina?  I know things evolve and change but I don't like where this trend is headed.  Just my opinion and I'm sticking to it.


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## 37fleetwood (Jul 30, 2012)

Here Here! now this is a Rat Rod!!! how's that for Patina?


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## Gary Mc (Jul 30, 2012)

37fleetwood said:


> Here Here! now this is a Rat Rod!!! how's that for Patina?




LOVE IT SCOTT!!!!!! Now that is a true rat rod.  Perfect blend of old stuff......


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## slick (Jul 30, 2012)

The whole "rat rod" term came from a guy from L.A. California (which i won't name names but i do know him) who saw a P.O.S. hot rod at a show back in the very early 90's and just threw a name out there saying "hey look at that ratrod". Which came from the Ratbike trend. A rat bike is a motorcycle that is ridden on a daily basis that a hardcore biker rides across country, doesn't wash it, hauls everything to his name on it, and just travels from place to place meeting new people and living off the "fat of the land" if you will. It's typically a crusty Harley in front of a bar or market in some hole in the wall town in the middle of mowhereland where the guy riding the bike is just "passing through" to kill time. Then these guys caught onto it and thought, hey it's crusty and i can't afford to paint it or buy the parts for it to make it nice so it's a ratrod! Then it evolved into the art theme. The skull heads everywhere, other junk you find at a yard sales or scrap yard incorporated, etc.. I am a traditional hot rod guy that owns REAL traditional hot rods that are NOT rat rods at all with all period correct parts. I've been doing the hot rod scene since the late 80's and this "ratrod" thing is rediculous and dying out, FINALLY. Most "ratrods' are getting bought and actually painted and brought to safety standards and turned into finished hot rods with paint on them. There is a trend to every hobby. This is just another trend. How many rusty P.O.S. hot rods did you see back in the 40's? None. And flat black wasn't the common thing back then either. It was flat black because it faded the original gloss black paint from the sun. my dad was an og hotrodder too back in the 1960's-70's with multiple cars in the Oakland roadster show winning lots of awards for paint, body etc.. Sorry for the rant. Just thought you guys should know my thoughts.


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## Bama Bill (Jul 31, 2012)

I agree about a nice collectible bike being parted out or made into a rat bike.I would never do it.But that is me.This is  an old Culumbia I bought with a few other od 50s and 60s bike in close to the same or worse condition.It is not worth "restoring" in my opinion.It is what I would call a rat.I like the look and will just freshen up the mechanicals.I don't know how rat bikes or cars evolved into putting "stuff" on them that has nothing to to do with bicycles or cars.


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## DonChristie (Jul 31, 2012)

slick said:


> The whole "rat rod" term came from a guy from L.A. California (which i won't name names but i do know him) who saw a P.O.S. hot rod at a show back in the very early 90's and just threw a name out there saying "hey look at that ratrod". Which came from the Ratbike trend. A rat bike is a motorcycle that is ridden on a daily basis that a hardcore biker rides across country, doesn't wash it, hauls everything to his name on it, and just travels from place to place meeting new people and living off the "fat of the land" if you will. It's typically a crusty Harley in front of a bar or market in some hole in the wall town in the middle of mowhereland where the guy riding the bike is just "passing through" to kill time. Then these guys caught onto it and thought, hey it's crusty and i can't afford to paint it or buy the parts for it to make it nice so it's a ratrod! Then it evolved into the art theme. The skull heads everywhere, other junk you find at a yard sales or scrap yard incorporated, etc.. I am a traditional hot rod guy that owns REAL traditional hot rods that are NOT rat rods at all with all period correct parts. I've been doing the hot rod scene since the late 80's and this "ratrod" thing is rediculous and dying out, FINALLY. Most "ratrods' are getting bought and actually painted and brought to safety standards and turned into finished hot rods with paint on them. There is a trend to every hobby. This is just another trend. How many rusty P.O.S. hot rods did you see back in the 40's? None. And flat black wasn't the common thing back then either. It was flat black because it faded the original gloss black paint from the sun. my dad was an og hotrodder too back in the 1960's-70's with multiple cars in the Oakland roadster show winning lots of awards for paint, body etc.. Sorry for the rant. Just thought you guys should know my thoughts.




Ya, Slick, I am not too sure about your origins of "Rat Rod". I thought you had Wikipediad it, so I did. This is what I found.

"OriginsThe December 1972 issue of Rod & Custom Magazine was dedicated to the "beater", a low-budget alternative to the over-polished, slickly-painted, customized early car. The beater could easily be considered a progenitor of the rat rod with its cheap upholstery, primer instead of paint, and lack of chrome or polished metals. However, owners of these beaters often had a high-dollar machine sitting in their garage.

As with many cultural terms, there are disputes over the origin of the term "rat rod". Some say it first appeared in an article written in Hot Rod Magazine by Gray Baskerville about cars that still sported a coat of primer. Some claim that the first rat rod was owned by artist Robert Williams who had a '32 Ford Roadster that was painted in primer. Hot Rod magazine has since verified this.[1] Gray's use was in relation to "Rat Bikes," motorcycles thrown together from spare parts to be enjoyed and ridden, not necessarily to show the builders best fabrications skills. Although the term likely started out as derogatory or pejorative (and is still used in this way by many of the high dollar Street Rodding community), members of the subcultures that build and enjoy these cars have adopted the term in a positive light".

As far as Rats go, there are cool, just don't wreck an original rider for it!


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## yeshoney (Jul 31, 2012)

*But who is to say when....*

a bike is too far gone???  To Rat or Restore?  To Hot Rod out or simply make a rider?  To add aftermarket items to "garnish"?  This debate will have no "right" answer.  The fact of the matter remains~it is the owners bike and it it is their prerogative to take a build in whatever direction they see fit.  Observers will be entitled to their opinions - good or bad. 

In another lifetime I would take Hot Wheels cars that retailed for $40 to $80 dollars and simply rob them of their wheels to make a custom.  People were appalled at my lack of dollars and "sense" at doing this.  I did not care as if I saw a particular need for that set of wheels on a build, I spent the money and created what I saw - the vision I had as a builder.  

Personally -  I really enjoy building what I term as 'Hot Rod' style custom bicycles.  I don't view them as "Rat Rod" bikes.  The difference being I try to use mostly period pieces that are mixed and matched to create something unique.  Some modern touches for ridability and/or safety and maybe some flat paint or even no paint.  You don't have to like everything and it would be boring if everyone only had the same color of the same bike.  So be open minded to others fiscal and creative limitations.  Enjoy them for what they are.  IMHO I think the author of this thread should read the responses and at least understand (I did not say had to like them) what others are doing.

My 2 cents -  feel free to leave change.

Joe

Forgot my most recent build.


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## HARPO (Aug 1, 2012)

I think "RAT" stands for "REALLY ATROCIOUS TURD". Some people only have taste,apparently, in their mouth.....


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## HARPO (Aug 1, 2012)

BTW..... I was only referring to the FIRST bike in this thread. The other bikes are nice customs.


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## MagicRat (Aug 1, 2012)

I have nothing to say...

I build my bikes for ME,and I dont give a Fat Frogs A** what anybody else thinks about them.


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## Mole (Aug 1, 2012)

magicrat said:


> i have nothing to say...
> 
> I build my bikes for me,and i dont give a fat frogs a** what anybody else thinks about them.




amen brutha!


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## Larmo63 (Aug 1, 2012)

People can do whatever they like with their own stuff. We then get to judge it. Many times
guys restore or fix up a bicycle here and NOBODY comments on it, or only a few will say 
"nice job." 
As for rat rods, I like the fact that teenaged kids can actually have something they built
that harkens back to the days when things were actually AMERICAN made and homespun.
They have just put their own stamp on things in their own time. I think it is cool. I saw a 
'32 dumped pick-up at a motorcycle/hotrod show at Hurley a while back that I thought was 
one of the coolest rides I'd seen in a long time. I think it is VERY clever how the young kids
see things and "re-use" items for different uses. Most of them don't have the big bucks that
the older guys who were "there at the time" do. Who cares about some old fag*ot driving 
his fake, fiberglass-bodied red '32 Deuce coupe around with the white hair and the ugly
fat old wife? ...............Anyone can do/afford that. The trick is to do it when you are young. 
As for this "rat-rod" bicycle that started the thread, I see it as sacrilege, but it's not my call. In
a few years, guys will be trying to find all the parts for these that they sold and/or threw away.


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## fordsnake (Aug 1, 2012)

Larmo63 you're so right, Rat Rods usually caters more to the young bloods. It’s an outlet for creative modification at minimum costs. It's no different then the original Hot Rod era of the 50’s. It was a culture of young post war service men who needed their adrenaline stoked with chopping and stroking V8’s scavenged from junk yards and old barns. 

If you really think about it, the original Hot Rods were the essence Rat Rods, built with scavenged parts and usually procured for pennies or nothing. If rust, patina and general abuse of old tin offends you then you probably were never a fan of original rodding?

Attached is a pic of two of my most recent scavenged rats encouraged by the RRBO7. And although I'm 64 years young I still love the ingenuity and the creative process.


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## MagicRat (Aug 1, 2012)

Hey Boondock,Nice Rides!


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## looneymatthew (Aug 1, 2012)

*its only orig. once....... thats one of my favorite lines.I use it all the time.*

i would rather own a roached,rusty,orig. anything. where you could just make out the orig. paint /decals ect . than a perfect .spot on resto. im just that type of enthusiast.collector. but of coarse its the n.o.s. and preserved/untouched unmolested. survivors  that realy get my anxiety going.  we all have our .tastes and likes and i agree with lawrence.if the youth of today or anyone for that matter are inspired/ motivated by the art of custom fabrication/rodding there bikes . its a heck of alot better than them sitting on the couch jrkn off to video games all day and getting fat being lames. at least there(rodders)are  being creative.  we all know what the difference is between a craftsman and a hack. some people have talent . and some people are kooks. just read the newspaper .... different strokes for different folks. and dont worry i wont be cutting up  or repainting   any early  orig. examples of americana any time soon.       BUT!! if something is not orig. any more......      than in my eyes i am open to experamentaion/customizing..     and i can appreciate a proffesional resto. but i like the charecter and look of a well used enjoyed piece of history.(BICYCLE/MOTORCYCLE) i think thats why i have been fascinated by these objects from a young lad. the story these objects tell. or you can imagine. or the story/perception you can create by customizing/altering/aging/anything...either way..  why limit yourself    enjoy the ride///     LOONEY


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## looneymatthew (Aug 1, 2012)

*brillaint*



fordsnake said:


> Larmo63 you're so right, Rat Rods usually caters more to the young bloods. It’s an outlet for creative modification at minimum costs. It's no different then the original Hot Rod era of the 50’s. It was a culture of young post war service men who needed their adrenaline stoked with chopping and stroking V8’s scavenged from junk yards and old barns.
> 
> If you really think about it, the original Hot Rods were the essence Rat Rods, built with scavenged parts and usually procured for pennies or nothing. If rust, patina and general abuse of old tin offends you then you probably were never a fan of original rodding?
> 
> Attached is a pic of two of my most recent scavenged rats encouraged by the RRBO7. And although I'm 64 years young I still love the ingenuity and the creative process.




  ithink they probably look better than they did original.. brilliant


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## rlhender (Aug 1, 2012)

I have to say I like them both, 1st pic is a 1946 Schwinn DX that I built for my son to ride and the 2nd pic is a 1955 Schwinn Phantom that I restored and it is correct down to the spokes and nipples...I have way more bikes that I keep original but every now and then I like to try the grass on the other side of the fence.

Rick


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## Bama Bill (Aug 2, 2012)

I'm not in a vacuum!I like them all.Rat,kluncker,beater,stipper,restored,original,refurbished or whatever.I just like bicycles.Oh,I'm 62.Here are some of mine.


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