# My great grandfathers Waltham orient



## QuincyB (Mar 17, 2018)

Hi all. Organizing my family’s barn attic and I took down my great grandfathers Waltham bicycle to get some fresh air. He would ride this bike to Boston (45 miles) and to New Hampshire’s sea coast (also a 40+ mile trip) 

We will never part with this bicycle but I’d like to learn more about it and if anyone can tell me anything interesting about it I’d really appreciate it! 

Also one side of the front fork is broken so the tire will not stay on. Luckily the broken piece is still bolted on to the tire. I’d like to get it repaired, not to ride just so it will display better. Is there anywhere in the southern nh or mass that you can recommend to fix it? 

Thanks so much!


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## catfish (Mar 17, 2018)

Very nice bike!!!


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## QuincyB (Mar 17, 2018)

Thanks! Anyone have an idea of year built and model so I can do some more research on my own?


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## willswares1220 (Mar 17, 2018)

That should display beautifully, when you get done with a light cleaning and repairing! 
And with that personal History to boot!


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## hoofhearted (Mar 17, 2018)

*
Am diggin' this ride ... and those auxiliary 
grips in the central area of the handlebar.

Can you please take a snap of the broken
part of the fork that you mentioned ?

One of your snaps now has some questions
added to it ... see foto attached.

Thank you -- QuincyB .....

...... patric



 *


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## Louis C. (Mar 17, 2018)

I have the same bike, smaller frame size, maybe a year newer, few differences
my headbadge porcelein insert is white and red and says Orient Light Roadster

I also have the ladies version, all same characteristics, with a serial number a few # higher than yours, also with a B on the steel insert
the headbadge porcelein insert is white and green, no model mentioned, but has a Crescent moon, a star and a saber on the badge, the ORIENT letters have little reflective dots on it

***While here,  I am missing a cap on the top of one the rear stay (next to seat post), maybe someone has a spare


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## Louis C. (Mar 17, 2018)

Any welding shop or machine shop close to you should be able to repair that fork, 
i would only bring them the fork, keep everything else at home safe.


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## QuincyB (Mar 17, 2018)

Thanks all for the info and comments so far. I’m going home in a little bit and will measure and take some more close up pics.


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## fordmike65 (Mar 17, 2018)

Beautiful! Thank you for sharing.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Mar 17, 2018)

Ceramic inserts made by Waltham Watch Co.


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## QuincyB (Mar 17, 2018)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> Ceramic inserts made by Waltham Watch Co.View attachment 771969View attachment 771970View attachment 771977




Cool thanks. Do you know which insert my bike should have? I can’t tell as it’s worn or missing


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Mar 17, 2018)

Carefully remove badge and soak it in a hot mild liquid dishwashing soap and use soft terry cloth rag to rub off paint and crud


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## Louis C. (Mar 17, 2018)

Here are my 2 inserts.


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## RidgeWalker (Mar 17, 2018)

So glad you are keeping this in the family!  Congrats on this wonderful piece of family history.


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## stezell (Mar 17, 2018)

Very cool QuincyB thank you for sharing, I agree with all of the good comments. Very nice piece of American history. 
Thank you, 
Sean


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## QuincyB (Mar 17, 2018)

hoofhearted said:


> *Am diggin' this ride ... and those auxiliary
> grips in the central area of the handlebar.
> 
> Can you please take a snap of the broken
> ...



Hi Patrick. The measurement from crank to seat post is 26”. The other measurement is 10.5”. Here is a pic of the fork damage. Thank you for your help


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## QuincyB (Mar 17, 2018)

I found a fender and a chain guard (I think) I have three other old bikes that the could belong to but the paint looks like it could be the same. Do these go to this bike?


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## Louis C. (Mar 17, 2018)

A good local machinist or welder can fix your fork.
The fender doesn't belong with your bike and the other part is a chain guard off a ladies bicycle.


You should keep the wheel off the bike for now, everytime you move the bike, you risk tearing the other side of the fork off. It's already torn.


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## QuincyB (Mar 17, 2018)

Louis C. said:


> A good local machinist or welder can fix your fork.
> The fender doesn't belong with your bike and the other part is a chain guard off a ladies bicycle.



Perfect I didn’t think the fender fit but good to know for sure. Thank you


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## Louis C. (Mar 17, 2018)

QuincyB said:


> Perfect I didn’t think the fender fit but good to know for sure. Thank you




I would not take what I said to be certain. There are guys here with a lot more knowledge than me that might have some input. I am only comparing to my bikes.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Mar 17, 2018)

Louis C. said:


> Here are my 2 inserts.
> View attachment 772004 View attachment 772005




Great photos!
The ceramic badge inserts can be replicated by a good ceramicist.


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## Louis C. (Mar 17, 2018)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> Great photos!
> The ceramic badge inserts can be replicated by a good ceramicist.




Cool. Didn't even know there was such a job title. 
Do you know someone? I have an Iver badge to improve.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Mar 17, 2018)

A ceramic decal can be digitally printed and tacked onto a ceramic tile, and fired in a kiln, to replicate the original


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## QuincyB (Mar 17, 2018)

Louis C. said:


> I have the same bike, smaller frame size, maybe a year newer, few differences
> my headbadge porcelein insert is white and red and says Orient Light Roadster
> 
> I also have the ladies version, all same characteristics, with a serial number a few # higher than yours, also with a B on the steel insert
> ...




Wow it’s cool you have one with a close serial number. Do you have a pic? I’d like to see the ladies version. Do you know what year yours was produced? Thanks for posting


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## Louis C. (Mar 17, 2018)

QuincyB said:


> Wow it’s cool you have one with a close serial number. Do you have a pic? I’d like to see the ladies version. Do you know what year yours was produced? Thanks for posting




Sorry that I can't help on the YOM. I am not very good at research as I lack the time and literature, I just have a lot of bikes to compare to. My ladies bike is the one with the close serial number and the green badge. Almost all of the features are identical to your bike.


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## QuincyB (Mar 17, 2018)

Louis C. said:


> Sorry that I can't help on the YOM. I am not very good at research as I lack the time and literature, I just have a lot of bikes to compare to. My ladies bike is the one with the close serial number and the green badge. Almost all of the features are identical to your bike.




Thanks again for your help.


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## Farmboy1895 (Mar 18, 2018)

Be careful in finding a good welder. The repair on the front fork should be tig welded which is a very fine weld process. The welder should also be able to file the welds to be invisible. Then paint and patina the repair area. When you are done with the help of expert craftsmen the repair area will be difficult to detect.


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## willswares1220 (Mar 18, 2018)

Farmboy1895 said:


> Be careful in finding a good welder. The repair on the front fork should be tig welded which is a very fine weld process. The welder should also be able to file the welds to be invisible. Then paint and patina the repair area. When you are done with the help of expert craftsmen the repair area will be difficult to detect.



What about sliding in a thin piece of plate steel with-in the fork first for reinforcement, before it's welded? Just a thought.....


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Mar 18, 2018)

Farmboy1895 said:


> Be careful in finding a good welder. The repair on the front fork should be tig welded which is a very fine weld process. The welder should also be able to file the welds to be invisible. Then paint and patina the repair area. When you are done with the help of expert craftsmen the repair area will be difficult to detect.




It needs to be tig welded


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## QuincyB (Mar 18, 2018)

Farmboy1895 said:


> Be careful in finding a good welder. The repair on the front fork should be tig welded which is a very fine weld process. The welder should also be able to file the welds to be invisible. Then paint and patina the repair area. When you are done with the help of expert craftsmen the repair area will be difficult to detect.




That’s good to know. I have a friend that can weld just about anything, so I’ll bring it to him and see what he thinks. Thanks for the info


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## Farmboy1895 (Mar 19, 2018)

Good idea about sliding a thin piece of mild steel inside between the tubes, as long as there is enough clearance without bulging the repair area.


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## bricycle (Mar 19, 2018)

Great story and Bike!
She's circa 1894-6 prob a 95.
I like the comfort grips he made.


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## Andrew Gorman (Mar 19, 2018)

Here is a frame builder in southern NH.  I just found them in a quick web search and know nothing about them.
http://www.tedwojcikcustombicycles.com/


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## QuincyB (Mar 19, 2018)

bricycle said:


> Great story and Bike!
> She's circa 1894-6 prob a 95.
> I like the comfort grips ha made.




Awesome thanks!


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## QuincyB (Mar 19, 2018)

Andrew Gorman said:


> Here is a frame builder in southern NH.  I just found them in a quick web search and know nothing about them.
> http://www.tedwojcikcustombicycles.com/



Thanks for that


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## Blue Streak (Mar 19, 2018)

I am thinking your Orient with Serial Number 11645 (Model B?) would be an 1896 or 1897 model. Looking through some period publications I found the following references to stolen Orients with serial numbers and descriptions of the 1897 Orients:

1895 Orient SN 2027 stolen - July 31, 1896 _LAW Bulletin and Good Roads_
1896 Orient SN 3296 stolen - November 28, 1896 _LAW Bulletin and Good Roads_
____ Orient SN 10865 stolen - October 28, 1897 _LAW Bulletin and Good Roads_
____ Orient SN 25069 stolen - July 22, 1898 _LAW Bulletin and Good Roads_

Description of 1897 Orients from December 12, 1896 _The Referee_:








January 14, 1897 _The Referee_:


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## Blue Streak (Mar 19, 2018)

1896 and 1897 Orient catalogs that sold at Copake Auction:


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## bobcycles (Mar 19, 2018)

wonderful family owned bike and history.... please post the progress as repairs are made...


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## 66TigerCat (May 23, 2018)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> Ceramic inserts made by Waltham Watch Co.View attachment 771969View attachment 771970View attachment 771977




The enamel inserts were actually made by the O'Hara Dial Co. who made the dials for the Waltham Watch Co. The building still stands and is a stones throw from the site of the original Orient factory building(no longer standing).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O'Hara_Waltham_Dial_factory


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## Dan the bike man (May 23, 2018)

Awesome that you have your great grandfather's bike! Even more awesome it's staying in the family. It a great piece of American history too. Thanks for sharing.


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## Rhcap (May 26, 2018)

The Charles River Museum in Waltham, Ma. Has many examples of Orient bicycles and motorcycles. I don’t know if he is still there, but Bob Howitt worked at the museum and is very knowledgeable about the history of Orients. They also have a great library of research on the Orient MFG. Co.


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## Kstone (May 26, 2018)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> Great photos!
> The ceramic badge inserts can be replicated by a good ceramicist.





My friends, I'd like to say I'm a pretty decent ceramicist. I can recreate those no problemo... depends if you want the words China painted or have a decal printed and fired on


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## CARBOB (Nov 20, 2021)

If you ever want to sell your Orient I’ll pay 5000.00 for it. Thanks


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