# Found a Raleigh Competition road bike, can anyone give me info on it?



## azhearseguy

Found this at an estate sale today. looks like a high end road bike to me. super light and in mint condition. from the serial #s I'mdating it to 1966 if anyone knows different please let me know. also if its a collectors peice or just a nice ride. Thanks. Eddie


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## azhearseguy




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## elginkid

Based on the catalogs from Sheldon Brown's site, it looks like a pre '76 (they had partial chrome on the rear stays).  It looks almost identical to the '73/'74 models.



http://sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/catalogs/Raleigh-Catalog-1973.pdf



http://sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/catalogs/Raleigh-Catalog-1974.pdf


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## azhearseguy

This is from Sheldons page, and is how i figured the date of manufacture. it said the 1974 & up had a W as the first digit?.this one doesn't..it's A6334

1967 - 1973

Yet another number system was introduced in 1966.  This new system applied to the high-end (i.e. Reynolds 531) frames, and involved the placing of a character at the beginning of the serial number.  The character began at the start of the alphabet, and indicated year of manufacture.  Detail about the numerals that follow the alphabet are sketchy, and are presumably sequential serial numbers of some kind.
1966: A, followed by four numerals 
1967: B, followed by four numerals 
1968: C, followed by four numerals 
1969: D, followed by four numerals 
 1970: E, followed by four numerals 
1971: F, followed by four numerals 
1972: G, followed by four numerals 
1973: H, followed by four numerals


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## azhearseguy

but it sure does look like the 73-74 bikes.


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## azhearseguy

ok just needed to read down some more.. 

Notes:   
1. The 531DB Gran Sports built in the early 70's did not have letters in the serial number.  
2. Frames built at the Ilkeston facility have serial numbers that begin with "SB".  
3. The 1973 track frames begin with an "A".  
4. There are several documented cases of  '73 and '74 Professionals, Internationals, Competitions and RRAs with "A" serial numbers. Let the color scheme, decals and components be your guide.


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## azhearseguy

Ok now I'm more confused! just saw this 1964 catalog. *They dont have the 1966 one* 
going by the description in the 64 catalog of the Carlton,  mine is the same color combo and does have carlton on the down tube.. so it could be a 1966 maybe?..lol

http://sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/catalogs/1964/index.htm


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## sailorbenjamin

Hmmm, looks a lot like my '73 (or '74).  They're worth some money, watch ebay a while and see what they sell for.  They're also a really nice ride, like really really nice.
Looks like your tubular rims have been replaced with clinchers.  I don't know what that does for resale value but it really reduces the cost of tires.
See this website for decal styles listed chronologically.
Great looking bike.  Have fun.


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## azhearseguy

OK Thanks for the info!


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## JOEL

When the frame serial numbers aren't clear, try the component serial numbers.


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## partsguy

I parted out a '74 LTD-SC and it has some very similar characteristics.


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## curtis odom

Definitely not a 60's bike and made in the early to mid 70's. I worked in a Raleigh shop from 1976-1980. I know we had that identical bike on the floor in 1976-77.


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## curtis odom

I have a friend looking for a bike like that, is it for sale?


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## azhearseguy

curtis odom said:


> I have a friend looking for a bike like that, is it for sale?




Yes it's for sale. have your friend email me direct at murrayeliminator@yahoo.com Thanks. Eddie


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## curtis odom

Forwarded to him.
Thanks.


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## sailorbenjamin

Here's a sight with some good serial number data;
http://www.jaysmarine.com/bikecollection.html


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## kenji

very sweet ride wish is till had my carlton


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## harpon

*Worked in a shop that sold these...*

Worked at The Bicycle peddler at 38th and Georgetown Rd in Indianapolis the summers of '73 and '74, and we carried the Raleigh line- put a few of these together -  I would say from that experience that this is a slightly later version even from that-  

The Competition was in fact more of a touring bike, or possibly a beginning race bike at the time- with three main Reynolds 531 tubes in the frame- it wasn't a full "double-butted" frame, but the next step down- still very lightweight and responsive and a very very nice bike available at the time-always black in color to my knowledge- I still recall the price- we sold them new for $220 then. I think they may have even had sew-up tires and wheels then, but could be wrong.

  Two or three years earlier the only kind of a racing bike you could have even gotten in the city of Indianapolis was a Schwinn Paramount- special ordered at a Schwinn shop.  You should perhaps seek out a replacement decal on e-bay- availability comes and goes.

The ones I recall were set up with Simplex derailleurs and shifters-  so these derailleurs are either added on later or indicate a later origin. And WHAT NICE DERAILLEURS they are!
Huret Jubillee- I was racing at the time they came out- about 1974 I think- and got a set for christmas-  marketed as "the lightest in the world"-  The front is a bit skimpy and the cage tends to wear under the abuse of racing, and I always felt the Campy Nuovo Record front worked better- and less weight difference there- so I switched that one back- but used the rear one for several years

I'm not sure about the sloping crown on the fork- the Raleighs were known for their distinctive sloping seat stays, so they may have been innovators there a bit, but sloping crowns didn't really comke along much before about '77 or later. Nervar crank- very nice.  If I was riding her, I'd go with 27x1 1/8 inch tires, or even 1" are available for a better roll.

If any of the reflector set-up is original, that came along about the mid-seventies.

If I had to guess- I'd say about 1977- but I wasn't watching them then- anywhere from about 1975 to 1980 could be correct, or even after that- a very traditional company.

Nice bike.


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## curtis odom

This Raleigh is almost box stock. The exceptions are the rear wheel and the seat (maybe a few nicknacks hear and there). The bike is most definitely full Reynolds, not just three main tubes (note: a full Reynolds bike only has two double butted tubes, two single butted tubes, six taper gauge tubes, and one straight gauge tube). The Raleigh Super Course farther down the line was only three main tubes. The Huret Jubilee Derailleurs are stock as is the TA three pin crank.

You are confusing this bike with the Raleigh Gran Sport which was the touring model equipped with Full Reynolds, Simplex Derailleurs and a Nervar Crank.

The Cinelli style sloping crown is correct for the year. Only the Raleigh Professional used the fastback stays. The fastback stays were not innovated by Raleigh, they were an original design by Bill Hurlow (W. B. Hurlow) Britain's foremost frame builder.

This nice bike is now in the possession of one of my pals who will be using it for daily commuting.


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## harpon

No, I believe I am still correct about the frame tubing-
 a "full-reynolds 531" frame had a sticker that read "Reynolds 531 Double butted tubing THROUGHOUT- forks and seat stays" This is not that sticker. This also very familiar sticker says "frame tubes".
The fork has Reynolds stickers too, but perhaps not 531 fork stickers I think. Dunno- can't read them here. I believed then and still do now that the Competion's main tubes were double butted, but the rest straight guaged..  I'm not sure exactly what I wrote the other night, hastily before Downton Abbey Season 2 came on- I'm just saying that it isn't the top line full 531 frame.

This thread on the next page is the Gran Sport- the decal is a 531 "throughout" from that period- clearly on the frame and forks- this model is in fact is an older line, and the equivalent of my own '67 Peugot PX10 in the frame regard, except no simplex dropout, and it has a long cage Simplex shifter, for Gran Sporting. the crank is a Stronglight 93, same as the PX10. Other period alloy cranks besides Campy were the Stronglight 49, a bit less pricey than the 93, and a line of "T.A." cranks. Steel cottered cranks were still sold on some lesser priced bikes, including the Raleigh Records and Grand Prix we carried ($109 and $129 at our store, respectively)

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?17590-1975(-)-Raleigh-Gran-Sport
I think the Gran Sport was about $280 then- but we didn't sell many top end type bikes for that much money then- used- they now get twice what they sold for on ebay I think.


When I was racing at that time- '73 and '74 no Amateur Bicycle League of America "A" or "B" racers would have likely been using a Competition like this, which may be more of a testament to affluence and snobbery than the actual worth of this quite fine Raleigh. "C" riders maybe- but even still almost no one would have been on clinchers, but sew-up wheels. "USCF" and Cat 1, 2 and 3 rider designations were still a year or two away then. The Nervar crank design was around at the turn of the '70's when I first had knowledge of it. The GB stem and probably handlebars are distinctly British.  Pivo would have been the French equivalent- we were using TTT then before a general switch to Cinielli.

If you were racing seriously then- almost EVERYBODY had a full Campy Reynolds or Columbus bike- it was sorta standard, and while a bit expensive- nothing like costs today.

the Competitions I put together and sold were Simplex equipped because as I thought I said- the Huret Jubilee was just coming out about then or '74-75.  I thought then that they were three main tube frames- so maybe I wrote something wrong above. It looks like from the sticker fork that some of it beyond the frame tubes may be Reynolds straight guage.  Not much of a difference then reallly.

when I went to college in Fall 1972 a local shop in Lafayette Indiana had Reynolds stickers- indistinguishable from the real thing that read "Guaranteed NOT built with Reynolds 531" and I had one on the Schwinn Varsity I rode to class and left outside in the rain, while my full- Campy Gitane Super Corsa stuffed nicely into my dorm closet, in violation of the rules had the real 531 sticker en Francais.


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## harpon

*Carlton is an affiliated company, not the model*

Now going back looking at the thread more carefully- I looked at your brochure-  I don't believe the "Carlton" in the brochure is this particular "Competition" model exactly. The Carlton name was some affilated company, absorbed by Raleigh at some point I think- I don't know the details, but while your seat tube still bears the Carltoin name- the model is a "Competition". And I still believe a year or two after I was putting them together in 73/74. I think the gran Sport and others may have bourne the Carlton name for a awhile. 

The Huret Jubilee model derailleurs I'll still maintain didn't come out until about '75 as I recall, but could have been '74- but there were of course other Huret models- and used very extensively- before that.  I still think the ones I saw had simplex on them, but I could be wrong.  Huret were sort of more a '60's derailleur, replaced in racing circles by Simplex and Campy, and then enjoyed a rejuvenation with the Jubilee line in the mid-70's.
anyway- not a big deal here- and a nice bike. 
The intricate lugwork pattern seen here was more often a product of the '60's and had all but disappeared by this time, except with a dwindling number of French and English bikes

Anyway, just checked on ebay where they sell decals- availability varies
This looks like a match of your main tubes sticker but the extra bit of gold along the bottom indicates to me at least a later era- (Can't always be sure ebay vendors are accurate)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/REYNOLDS-53...sure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item4842f6d3de

This would be a sticker for 531 double-butted throughout- although it is a later era and so different without the word "throughout" that meant so much then.  
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENUINE-ORI...sure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item1c228be261

Here's one from the more similar looking era but in french and with sample writing obscuring the exact text- but the lack of the gold panel at the bottom is the older generation-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/REYNOLDS-53...sure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item5ae3d1006b

I could use these for my Peugeot, but hesitant to spend $20 just for stickers!

 he places a divide at '77 in the first example- so I'm just guessing your Competition was before that - just says 75/76 to me otherwise.
You could query this vendor  in England through ebay and maybe find out more


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## sailorbenjamin

Carlton was a small high end maker in Worksop England.  They were bought by Raleigh in '59 as I recall but at least one source says '60.  They made the top of the line Raleighs after that and continued making bikes under the Carlton name as well.  Most of the Carltons stayed in England where there was some brand recognition.  The Carlton Raleighs were primarily for export and bore both the Raleigh headbadge and the Carlton sticker.
The Huret Jubilee was first produced for Huret's 50th anniversary in 1970, according to Disreali Gears;
http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Huret_Jubilee_derailleur_(2248).html
There are several good Carlton websites.  This one is more Raleigh in general but it has a Carlton registry and a pretty good serial number decoder;
http://www.theheadbadge.com/


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## harpon

*So to honeur him...*

Yes- while the Disrali site says the line was produced for Huret's 50 anniversary, it also says "date of introduction: 1974?"

Another site I saw last night described them as being first used by Team Gitane in professional racing in 1973- and there were a few bugs, a revision re-released in '64.  I'll try to track that page down again-  I didn't post these because it's typical internet speculation that may only perhaps be true- like Wiki.

I think they sold at the time for about $50 a set.
Just saw a rear one one ebay today with bidding yet to close going for something like $289 so far- Time for Revolution!

P.S. Yes here is that comment and page, for a '73 Competition- (the ones I saw didn't have these intricate lugs, and of course our stock in '73-'74 was probably a year or two older- we didn't sell many of these then- the city wasn't ready for it- a mile or so from the Motor Speedway)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jhvu/3647549405/
"The original 1973 model had a rather weak return spring, which is why it shifts into high gear the way it does. Later models, probably starting as early as 1974, had a stronger (and slightly heavier) spring, and shifted better. Nevertheless, these were used by the Gitane professional team in the 1973 Tour de France, notably by Joop Zoetemelk who finished 4th that year"

Theres all sorts of stuff if you google it.


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## Wcben

Looks allot like the competition I lusted for in 77-78!


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## elginkid

My later '75 Gran Sport still sports the Carlton sticker and brake lever hoods.  I really wish it had the secondary brake levers, but I can't change them because of those nice covers.


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