# Just purchased this Elgin Need help with the year!



## THEGOLDENGREEK (Mar 9, 2014)

Just purchased this original Ladies Elgin bicycle. Im trying to figure out the year on this bicycle. Here is the serial number...F193851 and right below that number is a H9. It is complete i inspected the inside of the tank and all is there and clean. Seems to take a huge battery which i have no clue what it would look like. Im going to need a seat it any one has one out there for it because it is to far gone. I would have thought the rims would have been chrome but they are painted a baby blue. As far on the front fork goes i don't see the 4 stars on it just a solid line in white. I do like the Gothic fenders on it  and the twin lights. This bike was found in someones garage in new jersey after the owner passed away. Well any help on the bike would be great thank you !


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## halfatruck (Mar 9, 2014)

That looks like a '40 4 star with a JC Higgins rack..


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## fordmike65 (Mar 9, 2014)

Looks similar to this old girl.


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## THEGOLDENGREEK (Mar 9, 2014)

halfatruck said:


> That looks like a '40 4 star with a JC Higgins rack..




Well is this rear rack original to the bike?


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## THEGOLDENGREEK (Mar 9, 2014)

fordmike65 said:


> View attachment 141696
> 
> Looks similar to this old girl.




Wow thanks for that great pic fordsmike. That bike looks the same to mine only much nicer and they have the same rear rack!


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## HIGGINSFOREVER (Mar 9, 2014)

Nice score george and in my back yard no less. You young whipper snappers have it all over us old men for finding cool old bikes.


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## THEGOLDENGREEK (Mar 9, 2014)

HIGGINSFOREVER said:


> Nice score george and in my back yard no less. You young whipper snappers have it all over us old men for finding cool old bikes.




Why thank you Gene. Now i have to find out what year this bike is!


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## jpromo (Mar 9, 2014)

I knew you'd eventually pop on this one! It's a nice bike, despite its current state. The F code puts it as 1940, Westfield built. The white line on the fork was more prominent early whereas the 4 stars seem to show up more in '41 early '42.


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## rockabillyjay (Mar 9, 2014)

Amazing bike and so complete! The rear rack and stimsonite reflector base is a nice score...and the lights and light mount shroud piece is always missing on these! I'd say its a about 1940, but I don't have my book in front of me. Congrats!


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## THEGOLDENGREEK (Mar 9, 2014)

jpromo said:


> I knew you'd eventually pop on this one! It's a nice bike, despite its current state. The F code puts it as 1940, Westfield built. The white line on the fork was more prominent early whereas the 4 stars seem to show up more in '41 early '42.




Well jason i finally pick it up last night. Ok so it was built by Westfield then cool. Do you know if this bike came with a drop stand ?


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## HIGGINSFOREVER (Mar 9, 2014)

THEGOLDENGREEK said:


> Why thank you Gene. Now i have to find out what year this bike is!




George if you look in your elgin book page 50 it shows up as a 1940 four star and it dont show the 4 stars on the forks also the carrier looks different.Still a nice score.


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## Wayne Adam (Mar 9, 2014)

*Nice Score!*

Hey George...Nice find!. It looks just like my 1940, except mine only came with the single Torpedo on the fender,
and mine has the Elgin rack..
It's cool that you found it with the duel light set up!
Keep us posted on the progress..................Wayne


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## prewarbikes4sale (Mar 9, 2014)

*Rack*

I have had that rack on late 30's early 40's Elgin's. Sure looks original to the bike


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## jd56 (Mar 9, 2014)

Ahhhhh a tanklight....kinda. 
I love it!!
Let's see what's inside the tank.  And the inside of the rear rack light battery tray.
Looks like a great project. Wonder what you had to do to save these tires? 
I'm just busting your chops George.....seeing we have already talked since you got this one.
Need to have the pics added to the "Preservationist" thread. Or "Let's see your girl ballooner" thread.
I do love the shrouded twin lights!!
Congrats again.


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## rustjunkie (Mar 9, 2014)

Rack is orig, taillight and brakelight, several slightly different racks and battery trays, (plus some for Elgin, some for Higgins). Doesn't show up in the Sears catalog reprint book, but IIRC it's called Flash-o-Matic, and there's an ad showing a boys and girls bike with his rack in this book:

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=INTRODUCTORY

The battery that powers the headlights is a flat 6v, NLA. Carrier takes 2 D cells and a switch at the hub to activate the brakelight.


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## THEGOLDENGREEK (Mar 9, 2014)

alw said:


> Rack is orig, taillight and brakelight, several slightly different racks and battery trays, (plus some for Elgin, some for Higgins). Doesn't show up in the Sears catalog reprint book, but IIRC it's called Flash-o-Matic, and there's an ad showing a boys and girls bike with his rack in this book:
> 
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=INTRODUCTORY
> 
> The battery that powers the headlights is a flat 6v, NLA. Carrier takes 2 D cells and a switch at the hub to activate the brakelight.




Thank you for all the great info on the battery for the tank and the rear light... Im going to have to go get a 6v battery and see if the headlight and horn work. Plus i have to see if the rear rack works as well. Do you know if someone makes the lenses for the rear rack and where i can buy them?


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## cds2323 (Mar 9, 2014)

jpromo said:


> The F code puts it as 1940, Westfield built.




Westfield serial numbers starting with F are from 1941. Westfield recorded approx. 220,000 serial numbers in 41, which probably puts your frame in late summer/early fall if I'm seeing the number right. 

Really like the bike, the rear rack is cool with the dual lights. I had associated this rack style as post war before and learned something new today.


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## rustjunkie (Mar 13, 2014)

THEGOLDENGREEK said:


> do you know if someone makes the lenses for the rear rack and where i can buy them?




AFAIK dark red plastic of this type is not available. I've seen some folks make clear then paint from the inside.
Maybe check ebay?
You might be able to use a small piece of plastic, heat gun and gravity to make some.
Interested in seeing what you come up with of the tank battery.


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## rustjunkie (Mar 13, 2014)

Wayne Adam said:


> ...and mine has the Elgin rack...




Seems that rack is specific to Westfield-built bikes....catfish?


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## THEGOLDENGREEK (Mar 13, 2014)

alw said:


> AFAIK dark red plastic of this type is not available. I've seen some folks make clear then paint from the inside.
> Maybe check ebay?
> You might be able to use a small piece of plastic, heat gun and gravity to make some.
> Interested in seeing what you come up with of the tank battery.




Im going to try to find the plastic pieces for the rear rack. Then im going to go get a battery probably this weekend and see if the ehadlights and horn work. I will keep you posted and i will post pics for sure!!


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## 37fleetwood (Mar 13, 2014)

alw said:


> Seems that rack is specific to Westfield-built bikes....catfish?




I always associated that rack with Murray.


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## rustjunkie (Mar 13, 2014)

37fleetwood said:


> I always associated that rack with Murray.




This one?






or the TL rack?


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## 37fleetwood (Mar 13, 2014)

the lit one. it seems to be the predecessor of this mid '50's Murray rack.


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## rustjunkie (Mar 13, 2014)

37fleetwood said:


> the lit one. it seems to be the predecessor of this mid '50's Murray rack.




Just now as I was twisting some filthy nipples I realized that, of course, both racks are "lit". I should have said "twin light" or "rack in OP".
Yes: it is interesting that the twin-light rack shows up, very similar, post-war, and then in different designs as you've shown.
Interesting because I have 2 Westfield Elgins here with them, and the OP makes 3. 

I don't have the Introductory Guide right now, can someone scan the Elgin ad showing the bikes with the twin-light racks?

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=INTRODUCTORY


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## THEGOLDENGREEK (Mar 15, 2014)

Ok so i finally go to take some pics of the inside of this elgin tank. Some one told me it takes a 6v battery. I still dont see how it takes that . If you look at the pics its looks like it once took a very long battery in there. Here are some pics of the inside of the tank. If any one has info please get back to me on this.


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## rustjunkie (Mar 16, 2014)

alw said:


> The battery that powers the headlights is a flat 6v, NLA.


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## jpromo (Mar 16, 2014)

With the placement of the contacts in there, it looks like even that long, narrow battery had to sit at an angle to fit. I'm sure it could easily be converted to use modern batteries. 6v is 4 typical 1.5v batteries, so you could probably pick up an inline holder for C batteries and wire it up to the contacts. I've done stuff like that for old cameras with obsolete battery sizes.


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## rustjunkie (Mar 16, 2014)

jpromo said:


> With the placement of the contacts in there, it looks like even that long, narrow battery had to sit at an angle to fit.




Seems more likely the terminals are offset on the battery; can kinda see it in the catalog.


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## reginald (Mar 16, 2014)

*4 star batteries*

Thanks for that pic, ALW. I was wondering what the deal was with that tray.   I have the same problem with my Elgin....I was thinking of making a custom D battery tray out of fiberglass, but would love to see if anyone out there has made their own solution/suggestion for this tray.


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## THEGOLDENGREEK (Mar 16, 2014)

alw said:


>




Thanxs for the pic.. ALW....great info on what style battery this bicycle took. I did test today the horn and the twin headlights. Everything works i couldn't believe that the headlight bulbs were still good and worked as well. Im thinking of coming up my own battery design  soon. I will keep you posted on what im going to do!


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