# '71 Raleigh Super Course



## slowride (Jul 1, 2018)

Picked this one up last week. I may have to change my handle because this one is anything but slow! Almost all original except MKS pedals and IHC gum walls and original B15 saddle was lost over the years and latest owner found and installed vintage B15 narrow. which he laced with color matching shoe laces which I think I will remove. Saddle also feels like maybe too taught (front but over tightened). Any thoughts on adjusting properly so as not to damage saddle from overtightening? Regarding these period quick release hubs , should they be tightened/ installed similarly to modern ones?  Anyone have any experience / advice with heuret luxe derailleurs? Included below is the table from the 1971 Raleigh Carlton catalog. Many thanks. Steve


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## juvela (Jul 1, 2018)

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WOW!

Did all SC of this annum come through with NERVEX Professional lugs or were others seen as well?

Must have forgotten that the Freres Huret Luxe gear ensemble was fitted as late as this year.  Were there also examples which were fitted with Juy during the year?

Appears to wear the Wally-TDC HS so is steerer 26TPI whilst shell be 24TPI & 68mm (nominal!)?

Spokes are Robergel Sport.

Big thanks for this treat!

Suspect rubber thingies to be IRC (Inoue Rubber Co. Ltd.) rather than IHC.

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## bikemonkey (Jul 2, 2018)

slowride said:


> Picked this one up last week. I may have to change my handle because this one is anything but slow! Almost all original except MKS pedals and IHC gum walls and original B15 saddle was lost over the years and latest owner found and installed vintage B15 narrow. which he laced with color matching shoe laces which I think I will remove. Saddle also feels like maybe too taught (front but over tightened). Any thoughts on adjusting properly so as not to damage saddle from overtightening? Regarding these period quick release hubs , should they be tightened/ installed similarly to modern ones?  Anyone have any experience / advice with heuret luxe derailleurs? Included below is the table from the 1971 Raleigh Carlton catalog. Many thanks. Steve
> 
> View attachment 832955
> 
> ...



That is one well kept bicycle! Congrats on such a great find!


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## bulldog1935 (Jul 2, 2018)

even the Brooks Sprint saddle of that era will have the same thickness leather as the current top-grade Brooks, currently only on limited-edition saddles, and  always on Brooks Team Pro.
This was the LE Sprint reissue from 4 years ago




you might want to tackle those laces differently, though


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## juvela (Jul 2, 2018)

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Your saddle question -

Remember to lubricate the threads of the tension adjustment bolt to give you better "feel" when you turn the adjustment nut.

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## slowride (Jul 2, 2018)

Many thanks @juvela ,@bulldog1935 ,@bikemonkey
Lugs : catalog for 1970 and 1972 show nervex but by '73 exclusive  Capella on Super Course model.
Derailleur: '69 heuret catalog has luxe but only touring and competition versions capable of 3,4,5,6 gears. '71 catalog show availability of ST super tour long cage but by '73 it's gone from heuret catalog. Jubilee not offered on this model in '71 only higher end bike Raleigh Super Tourer which had full 531 (super course plain gage 531 main tubes). By '72 Raleigh put simplex prestige on everything but international and professional which got campa (record kept alvit).


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## slowride (Jul 2, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> even the Brooks Sprint saddle of that era will have the same thickness leather as the current top-grade Brooks, currently only on limited-edition saddles, and  always on Brooks Team Pro.
> This was the LE Sprint reissue from 4 years ago
> View attachment 833030
> 
> ...




Hello @bulldog1935 . In the 65 year old proofhide thread I noticed you have a very nice silver bike with white fenders. Can you tell me what kind of fenders (and bike!) and if you think hey would fit physically and aesthetically with this this Super Course? I've been looking for a pair of Bluemels in white but they're hard to find. Also, general question for road bikes: as dust and dirt are the enemy for exposed geartrains, do fenders keep bike/geartrain any cleaner on dry roads ? At least I would think it protects paint from pebbles and stones. Here in the northern states freeze/thaw/lack of maintenance cause much the roads are crumbling and I would like to keep this SC looking it's best!


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## bulldog1935 (Jul 2, 2018)

slowride said:


> Hello @bulldog1935 . In the 65 year old proofhide thread I noticed you have a very nice silver bike with white fenders. Can you tell me what kind of fenders (and bike!) and if you think hey would fit physically and aesthetically with this this Super Course? I've been looking for a pair of Bluemels in white but they're hard to find. Also, general question for road bikes: as dust and dirt are the enemy for exposed geartrains, do fenders keep bike/geartrain any cleaner on dry roads ? At least I would think it protects paint from pebbles and stones. Here in the northern states freeze/thaw/lack of maintenance cause much the roads are crumbling and I would like to keep this SC looking it's best!



hi friend,
These are actually alloy Honjos on my '74 International - they're really fully-coverage,
though certainly more French-style than English







I do have white plastic Bluemels (ok, an equivalent - RW Clipper) on my '57 Lenton Grand Prix
These are the classic Brit fenders






The Bluemels/ Clipper/ SKS-Esge plastic fenders are easier to install, cheaper, and they work fine (especially if you add a front mud flap.
No question you could easily add a pair of these to your Super Course.
They hang on the brake bolts, the rear fender clips to the chainstay bridge, and you have fender bosses for the stay mounts on your dropouts.

when you need to shape alloy fenders, it's metalwork.  When you need to shape your plastic bluemels, gentle-use of a blow-drier will get you there.

The French style fenders, Honjo (Japan) are superior for riding in slop, have better designed mounting hardware, and more work to install - and bit more expensive.
I've done both style fenders on a few bikes, and know all the tricks especially for getting the metal fenders right.
https://www.jitensha.com/eng/honjinstl.html
Velo Orange sells cheaper, slightly heavier alloy fenders made by Tanaka, and are also pre-drilled, but I much prefer making all my own holes in new undrilled fender blanks.
The longer French-style fenders need more attachment points to keep them from vibrating and buffeting.













a classic bike-boom touch are shorty fenders, which do only one job well -
- keeping road grime from all the nooks and crannies in your center pull brakes.




some people complain about noise with their metal fenders, but they just haven't figured all the tricks to mount them securely and dampen out vibration.
One thing for sure about the plastic Bluemels - no noise.


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## SirMike1983 (Jul 2, 2018)

These are Velo Orange plain fenders on this 1974 Grand Prix. They have pre-drilled holes and mount via a two-part eyelet on a leather buffer base. They're not too difficult to install, but are a tight-ish fit on the Grand Prix in the front around the fork crown. They are a smaller, plainer fender than some of the French-type ones. They look nice and are reasonably light. They do capture the vintage look reasonably well.


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## bulldog1935 (Jul 2, 2018)

SirMike1983 said:


> These are Velo Orange plain fenders on this 1974 Grand Prix. They have pre-drilled holes and mount via a two-part eyelet on a leather buffer base. They're not too difficult to install, but are a tight-ish fit on the Grand Prix in the front around the fork crown. They are a smaller, plainer fender than some of the French-type ones. They look nice and are reasonably light. They do capture the vintage look reasonably well.
> 
> View attachment 833407
> 
> View attachment 833408



looking sharp Mike
everybody should have at least one fender bike


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## SirMike1983 (Jul 2, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> looking sharp Mike
> everybody should have at least one fender bike




Yeah, I think the Honjo is the better fender, but the Velo Orange is a decent choice too.

I would stay away from the Planet Bike-type plastic fenders for that Super Course. I just don't think they will look right the way a better quality fender will look.


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## bulldog1935 (Jul 2, 2018)

this photo also shows his SC was given ample clearance for fenders, even with long-reach CP calipers in front.




his fork would probably take really well to the Daruma mount for a Honjo or VO fender



the Daruma hangs from the brake bolt inside the fork crown and goes through the top of the fender with the fender tightened against a big rubber washer.
Part of properly mounting these fenders to make them solid and quiet.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2196/9775/files/Fender_Instructions.pdf?2430529047168199731

Boulder cycles used to offer a great part for spacing your fenders under a tall fork - a thick wedge washer, available in different thickness, that goes between the rubber washer and the bottom of the fork crown, but none on their website now, so they haven't machined any in awhile.
I have one of these in the photo just above. 
http://boulderbicycle.blogspot.com/2011/08/fender-wedge-new-cool-widget-august-29.html


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## slowride (Jul 2, 2018)

@bulldog1935 , @SirMike1983 thanks all the info.your bikes look great!

Those honjos look heavy duty!  Any recommendations on where to buy honjos or RW Clippers?  I think with 27x1 1/4 rims tires are 32mm wide so you need 45mm width fenders min?  For bluemels I read Populars are the ones for these tires..

@bulldog1935 notice you have a prop stand on the Lenton but the International? my SC does not have one. Opinions? I noticed you have matching updated crank sets and rear derailleurs on the Lenton and International Old hardware too temperamental for touring? I like the bag on the Lenton. I see you prefer what I'll call full length pumps? 

@SirMike1983 . Nice GP! Very clean. I did look at the velo orange and they look nice. Do you recall the fender width? I agree theses plain ones look best . They look a tight fit but I think they look very good this way. the hammered ones may be too much but I guess it comes down to personal preference. What kind of pump and derailleurs? I thought these came with simplex  prestige. How do you like panaracer tires? They look nice. I like the practicality of your saddle and hand brakes ; those low profile tires don't absorb much...

In the end one could argue the bluemels are the most traditional for British touring bikes but if you think about it all of them had either French or Italian running gear didn't they?


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## bulldog1935 (Jul 3, 2018)

For your tire size, you're definitely looking for 43-45mm-wide fenders (Honjo H-29 on my International)

The Bluemels or Clippers are an OS purchase from ebay - nobody makes fenders like that any more -  between Lou and me, for his '60 Lenton and my '57, we got the last two OS Clipper fender sets from an ebay vendor in France
.  



Nothing at all wrong with SKS, which are actually are the modern continuation of Bluemels fenders, and available in silver "chromeplastic" - these are the go-to fenders for most people today (nice enough, it's the only fender set Rivendell sells)
https://www.modernbike.com/sks-p45-chromoplastic-longboard-fender-set-silver-700c-x-28-37

here are VO fender sets, and you can see they're a good buy - probably a better buy than OS Bluemels or Clippers.
https://velo-orange.com/collections/700c-fenders

Jitensha studio sells un-drilled Honjo fender blanks and mounting hardware separately
https://www.jitensha.com/eng/fndrs_e.html

Here's a good price on a Honjo fender set with hardware
https://www.sim.works/collections/fenders-simworks-by-honjo/products/liner-44

Bens Cycle is another good source for Honjo hardware
https://www.benscycle.com/honjo/search

My first big fender project was a 37mm pre-drilled Honjo set I bought on closeout from Velo Orange for $65.  Largest tire is 28mm.
They went on my Raleigh GP




it would be a too long story, but those fenders ended up on my friend's Schwinn World Sport project




The Bluemels/SKS style fenders, you can almost slap them on.
With VO/Honjo take your time, because there are many variables in alignment (position of the fender on the u-shaped stay, as well as stay length adjusted at the dropout attachment)

Installing all fenders, ALWAYS, the LAST thing you do is cut fender stay to final length.


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## juvela (Aug 13, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> hi friend,
> These are actually alloy Honjos on my '74 International - they're really fully-coverage,
> though certainly more French-style than English
> View attachment 833400
> ...




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Ron -

with your mudguard savvy you could write a thick tomus on the subject!  

delighted to see you found Hiroshi.  IIRC he launched his store ~1985 and began being a stockist for Tanaka & Honshu mudguards ~1989.  Recall a visit in the latter year when he gave me a tour of them.  It was my first exposure to a la carte mudguards.  Had previously only seen after-market guards in kit/set form.

Hiroshi's web site was created by one o' me local cycling friends.

Wonderful information as always!  

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## bulldog1935 (Aug 13, 2018)

what I like is the range of hardware he offers, plus he sells un-drilled fender blanks, so I can put the holes where I need them.
Like this short-reach L-bracket that works with my short-reach Weinmann 610 rear (low seatstay bridge) - I had a long-reach L-bracket there when the same fender and wheelset was on Grand Prix with Weinmann 750 rear (very tall seatstay bridge).




And check out this pretty fender stay setscrew daruma, where you don't need to share the drop-out boss with a rack stay.
You'll notice it's different from the R-clip in my last post, where I had to share the front dropout boss with both rack stay and fender stay.




showing that photo again, there's a Bridgestone spacer washer between the rack stay and dropout boss.
Here's the Bridgestone spacer - https://www.rivbike.com/collections/racks/products/rack-hardware-thick-washer-spacer-each
The spacer fits between the dropout boss and the rack stay, so the rack stay is not contacting the fork where they cross, and under the fastener head is the R-clip for the fender stay.




The front rack is so I can carry a big rando bag (usually for winter) - there's so little steering inertia in the International low-trail geometry, it handles really well with a big front load.
Plus, the main triangle is way too flexy for a rear rack with big rear load.
Even though this bike was the last English club racer, it really gives Herse and Singer a run for their money as a rando.



or a small front trunk bag for summer -
Both carry a fold-up tire and sundries, and the big bag for the winter has extra room to stuff clothing layers as the day warms



ps - people into carbon bikes don't get this bike, and especially don't understand when I'm waiting for them at the next water stop.


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## anders1 (Nov 28, 2018)

Super nice bike...


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