# 41 deluxe lightweight



## Pedals Past (Aug 24, 2020)

I dont know much about this bike or schwinn lightweights other than what i can put together from the pre-war schwinn book i got at Memory Lane 25 years ago. I believe this to be a 1940-41 however looking at this sites page on them the bikes people are declaring 1941 seem to have different sprocket. Although all the chrome has been painted silver (rims/bars) I dont see any evidence of black out parts to declare it might be a war time bike.  This bike sports several features as an upgrade or deluxe version including locking fork (with original key) front and rear pancake brakes. I have another with a shielded American flyer badge and calioer brakes no locking fork )maybe a 39?) the rest of the bike is the same. I put basket bell and flashlight holder on it but have never really rode it or cleaned it .... the spider webs are recent since sitting on my back patio but they look cool. I would love to know about this bike i recently have become bored with ballooners and might keep this wirh my 39-40 Paramount and rare 8 speed Varsity (when I was young this was my dream bike because I was small and had a 20” columbia i tried to ride in the races on saturday old Gerorge Blackstock put on before he went blind) In 64 i graduated to a stingray with a kick back and soon after put myninterest into gorls and VW’s. I love the look of this bike but its harder than hell to pedal for being a lightweight, is that standard or the hubs need going through?


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## Pedals Past (Aug 24, 2020)

Hail to old George a triibute in my bike shop window.... his original clock ..... he hand painted it .... the stickers on window were in hope he might see again once he was gone!


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## Oilit (Aug 24, 2020)

Pedals Past said:


> I dont know much about this bike or schwinn lightweights other than what i can put together from the pre-war schwinn book i got at Memory Lane 25 years ago. I believe this to be a 1940-41 however looking at this sites page on them the bikes people are declaring 1941 seem to have different sprocket. Although all the chrome has been painted silver (rims/bars) I dont see any evidence of black out parts to declare it might be a war time bike.  This bike sports several features as an upgrade or deluxe version including locking fork (with original key) front and rear pancake brakes. I have another with a shielded American flyer badge and calioer brakes no locking fork )maybe a 39?) the rest of the bike is the same. I put basket bell and flashlight holder on it but have never really rode it or cleaned it .... the spider webs are recent since sitting on my back patio but they look cool. I would love to know about this bike i recently have become bored with ballooners and might keep this wirh my 39-40 Paramount and rare 8 speed Varsity (when I was young this was my dream bike because I was small and had a 20” columbia i tried to ride in the races on saturday old Gerorge Blackstock put on before he went blind) In 64 i graduated to a stingray with a kick back and soon after put myninterest into gorls and VW’s. I love the look of this bike but its harder than hell to pedal for being a lightweight, is that standard or the hubs need going through? View attachment 1254115
> View attachment 1254116
> 
> View attachment 1254118
> ...



Thanks for the pictures! A lightweight with drum brakes is a combination I haven't seen too often. And the mount for the front fender must have been required by the lock. I've heard that those drum brakes can drag if they're not adjusted just right, but lightweights usually run higher tire pressures and should be easier to peddle than ballooners, not harder. And the three-piece cranks used different sprockets than the one piece version, is that what you saw?


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 24, 2020)

gonna get one of those for $25.00 at a garage sale one day. that is my life's goal.


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## Pedals Past (Aug 24, 2020)

Oilit said:


> A lightweight with drum brakes is a combination I haven't seen too often! And the mount for the front fender must have been required by the lock. I've heard that those drum brakes can drag if they're not adjusted just right, but lightweights usually run higher tire pressures than ballooners and should be easier to peddle, not harder.



exactly what I thought I am just afraid of messing with them they seem to release as the cable adjustment fully retracks the guts must be dirty


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## Pedals Past (Aug 24, 2020)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> gonna get one of those for $25.00 at a garage sale one day. that is my life's goal.



unfortunately i bought a deceased collectors VW and bikes who had part of my museum collection when we liquidated in 2001, it cost me $150k and there wasnt much ballooner stuff but this bike I loved the look since i had the basket for over 30 years i thought it just fit the bike/patina ..... $25 wont buy it but i might be twisted to sell it


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 24, 2020)

Pedals Past said:


> unfortunately i bought a deceased collectors VW and bikes who had part of my museum collection when we liquidated in 2001, it cost me $150k and there wasnt much ballooner stuff but this bike I loved the look since i had the basket for over 30 years i thought it just fit the bike/patina ..... $25 wont buy it but i might be twisted to sell it




I see you are in Napa. I'm south of you in Fremont what would you want for it?  do you like old toys? I have a 1924 Buddy L Model T coupe I'd trade.


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## Oilit (Aug 24, 2020)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> gonna get one of those for $25.00 at a garage sale one day. that is my life's goal.



Just as long as you get there before me!


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 24, 2020)

Oilit said:


> Just as long as you get there before me!




that's the plan!


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## Miyata FL. (Aug 24, 2020)

@Miq @GTs58


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## Miq (Aug 24, 2020)

Hi @Pedals Past it looks like a prewar New World to me.  It has to be from 1940 or after because it has rear drop outs and not fork ends.  You are right that it has some deluxe features and there were many options available for this bike.  I have not seen a locking front fork on many (any?) and the three piece crank with AS&Co chain ring is nicer than the usual one piece.  The hub brakes are also an upgrade.  The racer pedals are sweet too but may not have been stock.  The rear mudguard has been replaced with a post war one.  The mudguards on prewar and wartime New Worlds are attached with the wire stays like on your front mudguard.  The bar stays started being used around the end of the war.

We have been collecting info on these bikes in the Wartime New World thread.  I would love to add this nice example to our list.  Can you take a pic of the serial number on the bottom of the bottom bracket?  It will help us get a better idea of the year and show if the bottom bracket was electro-forged which started in 1942.

My 1941 coaster New World is fast and quiet.  You should be able to fly on these bikes.  If you are having trouble pedaling, there is something wrong for sure.  New tires are Kenda K23 and the only choice available for these S-6 rims.  These are great bikes and yours should clean up really nicely.  I ride mine a few times a week and love it.

Thanks for the heads up @Miyata FL. !


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## Pedals Past (Aug 24, 2020)

Miq said:


> Hi @Pedals Past it looks like a prewar New World to me.  It has to be from 1940 or after because it has rear drop outs and not fork ends.  You are right that it has some deluxe features and there were many options available for this bike.  I have not seen a locking front fork on many (any?) and the three piece crank with AS&Co chain ring is nicer than the usual one piece.  The hub brakes are also an upgrade.  The racer pedals are sweet too but may not have been stock.  The rear mudguard has been replaced with a post war one.  The mudguards on prewar and wartime New Worlds are attached with the wire stays like on your front mudguard.  The bar stays started being used around the end of the war.
> 
> We have been collecting info on these bikes in the Wartime New World thread.  I would love to add this nice example to our list.  Can you take a pic of the serial number on the bottom of the bottom bracket?  It will help us get a better idea of the year and show if the bottom bracket was electro-forged which started in 1942.
> 
> ...



The original tires are fine hardly any cracking i get u a photo of serial number and the blue bike i believe to be the first year 1939 which has same chain ring with caliper brakes, same pedals different seat i believe it is Brooks but is the same style. 

On this bike it would be hard to believe the rear fender being changed it matches perfectly with the same aging of the paint maybe like you said right during the transition of the bikes. 

thanks for the info


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## Miq (Aug 25, 2020)

Thanks Jerry.  I look forward to seeing the pics of both bikes.

About the rear mudguard.  It’s clear it’s not original. Someone had to modify it to fit the bike. They put another set of mounting tab holes to make it work.  You can see the.modification in these pics.  There isn’t supposed to be two sets of holes and the tab should be painted the same color as the bike Like the front guard tab.


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 25, 2020)

A few changes made, but still pretty good for its age. The fork pushed back slightly in one of the pictures, but even if that's so, it would be fixable with some measuring and the frame/fork arm tool. The pedals look like excellent vintage "lightweight" pedals. The drum brakes are a nice little addition. It's good you found it relatively intact because these often turn up parted out when they have desirable parts that can be used on balloon tire collectors' bikes (the brake handles and drums are good examples).


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## Pedals Past (Aug 25, 2020)

tree



1939 Schwinn Touring Pedal much like this blocked racing style Torrington Pedal as a replacement on my bike never saw one before but never really looked at lightweights before, my 1940 Paramount has racing pedals without blocks have to look and see if they are Torrington 




1939 Paramount Pedals with replaceable blocks -Does any one have a set of these with Schwinn logo in block? 





1940 wire fender brace  in rear ? States new style mud guards  The 39 clearly shows wire stay attached on the rear frame as this shows wire brace attached to or is it near axle bolt ? like my marroon bike is to the acle bolt but frame has no marking for a wore brace above or near the drop out. My  blue 39 i believe wire stay is to frame  , they must have changed the end mounting hole in 1940 to be wire? 

first year stating Torrington Pedal assuming an 8 ......


1940-41  Continental rear fork ends (does this mean just open end release or the drop out like a post wat schwinn or my bike ) wire fender brace 




1942 shows bike with both seat options and the brace to axle bolt ? also doesnt appear to be like 39 wire style 

States illistrated with no changes, so did they black out the chrome no where from 39-42 does it state anything about chrome? My other question being if it was available in three sizes wouldnt the fender mount be in a different spot to adjust for tge frame difference? If so would they go to trouble to make three fenders or just have the option of two holes? Ran out and used what they had punched more holes? 

My experience and conclusion over 39 years is these bike builders especially as it got close to/during war used what was available the day they assembled the bikes. Now knowing that Schwinn was quite particular with their product that has not been so apparant. However looking at this literature used in Hurd and Gordon’s Pre war book it states a English style in 1940 and a New World and Paramount Touring lightweight style there after? So the question being were these fenders Schwinn made or European out sourced on some parts? Were there differences in the two styles? Looking at front fenders with the wing it appears to replicate  the European model? 

I am not trying to be argumentative i see what you mean about the fender but that fender even five years newer if it was changed after the war would not match this patina and color perfect from my experience and I am one of tge guys accused in this hobby of and admitting to taking more tgan one same color original paint  bikes and constructing a complete bike. I am not a painter and have only tried to patina paint one part in 30 years and tgat was a Colson Aristicrat rack that waa made for a bike and yes some really experienced guys couldnt tell the difference but this bike I would have never bought unless I had to to acquire back my okd bikes or something I wanted. Maybe this bike is a bastard built factory bike like I believe was done when is a good question not really studing what/how bikes during war  were put together. Shame on me because I always buy on visual what turns my clock more so than technically history based even though i consider myself a history student. 

I will get more photos and serial numbers of the two bikes for you ..... how this inspired interest I fully respect ..... but by study this is what your knowledge has got me to review how i came about originally trying to fugure out what I had. Thanks alot this is highly interesting now since I also have  alot of  ww2 items other than bikes and was an administrator at the Yountville Vetrens home museum. 

As the pandemic started I wanted the museum to purchase that 1945 Columbia military bike that was for sale  to include but its closed for Covid19 my biggest supporting donor passed away now so if this bike coukd be confirmed a war time bike I will donate it. I really appreciate your help.


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## Pedals Past (Aug 25, 2020)

SirMike1983 said:


> A few changes made, but still pretty good for its age. The fork pushed back slightly in one of the pictures, but even if that's so, it would be fixable with some measuring and the frame/fork arm tool. The pedals look like excellent vintage "lightweight" pedals. The drum brakes are a nice little addition. It's good you found it relatively intact because these often turn up parted out when they have desirable parts that can be used on balloon tire collectors' bikes (the brake handles and drums are good examples).




40/41 Autocycle deluxe material in drums cables and handles valued between $900-$1200 according to some very active high end collectors who have already inquired the chain guard looks aerocycle and they are after that too. I dont part bikes i might build some up but i sell them if not complete as is your conscience can be tge guide....

 i dont think the fork is bent might be a camera illusion,  the big questions for me were silver paint and no chrome evidence under it on bars and neck wheels are silver too but i havent scratched around or cleaned anything i just love its look especially with spider webs, the seat & pedals but I believe they are correct and now rear fender/brace question alittle mixed and matched however braces are riveted to fender, the locking fork with original key tells me this bike was highly valued by its owner. 

Maybe since you had to custom order lock and brakes they ordered those pedals and seat the fender is a mystery


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## Miq (Aug 25, 2020)

Jerry I’m not being argumentative either and you can believe what you want. You’ve clearly been doing this longer than I have, but of the 75 or so of these prewar and wartime New Worlds we’ve studied, none but the post war have been equipped with the flat bar mudguard stays.  The extra holes and non painted mounting tab on your mudguard are a dead give away.  Original bikes just don’t have those, even the war time ones.  You can say a 5 year younger part would never look the same, but if the owner loved the bike so much that he kept good care of it for the first 20 years, differences in those similarly aged parts wouldn’t be so apparent with the aging all happening later in its life.    Take a look at the 46 catalog and tell me what you think of the New World mudguard stays compared to the ones on your bike and let’s get a serial number and see where it fits in with the other bikes we’ve seen. I don’t mind being wrong.  Just show me why.


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## GTs58 (Aug 25, 2020)

The 1939 models had the rear facing fork slot and the fender stays were attached to the axle. Schwinn began their electro-forging on the new 1940 models when the new rear drop out fork end was first used and EF to the frame stays. The prewar drop outs did not have the accessory hole for attaching the fender stays or carriers, that came about post war. So these prewar lightweights all had fender stays attached to the axle. Now we need to clarify the type of fender stays/braces. @Miq There were flat bar braces and those were used prior to what people call rolled braces, but the are actually stamped in a semi-circle. These rolled/stamped braces came about after the flat bar braces in the last half of the 30's. Calling these post war type braces flat is misleading to many I'm sure since there were flat braces that came about on the very first bikes with fenders/mud guards.


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 25, 2020)

Is it possible the fender is original but just that the mount is not? If you look at the two rivet holes, the front one is much larger and has the look like it gave out. The front hole is kind of irregular and does not have the depression ring like the rear hole. Wire braces replaced with slightly later ones. I wouldn't let that detract from the bike, it could just be an old field repair. This is a great find still.


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## Miq (Aug 25, 2020)

GTs58 said:


> @Miq There were flat bar braces and those were used prior to what people call rolled braces, but the are actually stamped in a semi-circle. These rolled/stamped braces came about after the flat bar braces in the last half of the 30's. Calling these post war type braces flat is misleading to many I'm sure since there were flat braces that came about on the very first bikes with fenders/mud guards.




Agreed.  My naming convention is misleading.

1939 (Late 30's) Flat Stays that joined together before attaching the axle:




1940 with what I call "wire" stays since they are made from thin round metal stock.




1942 Wartime Victory New World.  Still round "wire" stays but now only 1 stay in the rear.




1948 with what I am calling "Bar" stays in the chart.  These look to me like they are the semi circular formed stays you are mentioning, but in this drawing they do not attach to the axle.  There is a mount on the dropout.



Here's @schwinnlax 1946






SirMike1983 said:


> Is it possible the fender is original but just that the mount is not? If you look at the two rivet holes, the front one is much larger and has the look like it gave out. The front hole is kind of irregular and does not have the depression ring like the rear hole. Wire braces replaced with slightly later ones. I wouldn't let that detract from the bike, it could just be an old field repair. This is a great find still.



Could be @SirMike1983 and I totally agree that it really doesn't detract from how cool this bike is.  The options on this bike are great and I love the way it looks.  @Pedals Past is a lucky man.  The "wire" braces break so incredibly easily at the rivet that I can see needing to change over to these modified 1946? stays to get the mudguard mounted again.  In fact all of the "wire" stays on my 41 are broken and I have them held in place with 3D printed blocks inside the mudguards. (modern day field repair)   

You are probably right.  It's likely an original rear mudguard but the mounting was modified and stays replaced when it got damaged somehow.  Thanks for filling in the missing pieces with me @GTs58  and @SirMike1983  !!


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## Pedals Past (Aug 26, 2020)

Ok i opened a can of worms for the micrometer parts debate again..... personally I dont really care its a original paint bike if it ends up a 1962 by serial number to you guys i am happy for you that you think you figured it out ..... its a 40-42 bike to me .... the freakin fender matches the bike why the fender stay is different I really couldnt care less its riveted on not every guy has a rivet gun sitting in the garage or a set of braces that fit the bike if it was fixed so be it done at a shop. After reading all this posts required info  how about they were just having problems with the rear wire stays and its a transition bike looking at catalog and they changed them where who knows reading everything about this bike and options needed be custom ordered so sounds like to me they built the bike to order the guy maybe asked for a different stay .... you can nit pick how why and what hut if is all you can find is that , your missing the whole point of the post its a rare bike being the custom ordered options. reading the catalog to figure out what I acquired.  For four years i been watching this forum to see if one showed up mostly because of the shielded badge blue bike i have since there is no literature that clearly shows a badge other than New World on it. Bob I think only had these two bikes because of their differences from the norm. So back to the original general ...... sharing of the bike and its original build less the freaking rear stay does anybody have a bike with these options still on it or did they all get savaged to build a restored ballooner? Talking to people they want to buy the parts for far more money than any of the lightweight collectors would pay..... I am convinced that after you confirm its a war time bike i either clean it up put it on my orig paint bullet blinker vw camper and ride the damn thing or donate it to the vetrens museum...... 

Since we got off track on the nuts and bolts debate another lame question  to open  back new debate since the bike is so nice condition what the heck happened to the chrome no evidence just silver paint on what looks like bare steel did they use black out parts and the guy wanted it to look like chrome after war or should i change the bars out since i have a nice patina chromed orig set ? Then the wheels will need relaced to put those hubs in a set rims with chrome? 

we dont have a decent wheel builder in town unless i take them to American cyclery in sf to get done at Bradley Whols ......or send the to Jerry Heron in ohio.  i tried before myself in hope to use the original spokes and the rims look like spagetti i stick to digging ditches ......  its a ignorant mans occupation and no one has more experience at that 

how about anyone know anything about that thick strap basket i put on it? My girls when young named the basket .... Wizard of Oz ..... it fits the bike like a Rembrandt to me whatever happens that basket be staying with me....   weird for a guy who has had every five digit valued bike in the hobby to admire 

thanks for all the info


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## 1motime (Aug 26, 2020)

My understanding was that rear fender's riveted on bracket was in different spot due to frame size.  A 19" frame had the bracket mounted more forward.  A 21 or 23" frame had the bracket more to the rear to accomadate the taller seat tube.  No other difference


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## Pedals Past (Aug 26, 2020)

1motime said:


> My understanding was that rear fender's riveted on bracket was in different spot due to frame size.  A 19" frame had the bracket mounted more forward.  A 21 or 23" frame had the bracket more to the rear to accomadate the taller seat tube.  No other difference



exactly my thought why there was two sets of holes originally


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## Oilit (Aug 26, 2020)

Pedals Past said:


> Ok i opened a can of worms for the micrometer parts debate again..... personally I dont really care its a original paint bike if it ends up a 1962 by serial number to you guys i am happy for you that you think you figured it out ..... its a 40-42 bike to me .... the freakin fender matches the bike why the fender stay is different I really couldnt care less its riveted on not every guy has a rivet gun sitting in the garage or a set of braces that fit the bike if it was fixed so be it done at a shop. After reading all this posts required info  how about they were just having problems with the rear wire stays and its a transition bike looking at catalog and they changed them where who knows reading everything about this bike and options needed be custom ordered so sounds like to me they built the bike to order the guy maybe asked for a different stay .... you can nit pick how why and what hut if is all you can find is that , your missing the whole point of the post its a rare bike being the custom ordered options. reading the catalog to figure out what I acquired.  For four years i been watching this forum to see if one showed up mostly because of the shielded badge blue bike i have since there is no literature that clearly shows a badge other than New World on it. Bob I think only had these two bikes because of their differences from the norm. So back to the original general ...... sharing of the bike and its original build less the freaking rear stay does anybody have a bike with these options still on it or did they all get savaged to build a restored ballooner? Talking to people they want to buy the parts for far more money than any of the lightweight collectors would pay..... I am convinced that after you confirm its a war time bike i either clean it up put it on my orig paint bullet blinker vw camper and ride the damn thing or donate it to the vetrens museum......
> 
> Since we got off track on the nuts and bolts debate another lame question  to open  back new debate since the bike is so nice condition what the heck happened to the chrome no evidence just silver paint on what looks like bare steel did they use black out parts and the guy wanted it to look like chrome after war or should i change the bars out since i have a nice patina chromed orig set ? Then the wheels will need relaced to put those hubs in a set rims with chrome?
> 
> ...



I haven't seen many lightweights with the drum brakes, but there's some good pictures of one on page 14 of this thread:








						Wartime Schwinn New World Bikes - We Know You Have Them - Tell Us About Them!! | Lightweight Schwinn Bicycles
					

That white 40 woman's New World is a beauty!  Fantastic pin stripes and chrome.  Even on the Miller stand.  Good to see that these bikes are coming out.   I have a question.  I am looking for a front fender for a prewar New World.  I thought an early Racer fender would work.  Same fin.  Looking...




					thecabe.com
				



: but if I'm reading it right the hubs have since been removed from that bike. I expect you're right, the price difference between balloon tire bikes and these means the hubs usually get stripped and rebuilt for a Phantom or something. Being extra cost options, they were probably uncommon to start with, and are even more so now.


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 26, 2020)

Yeah, it's sort of an unfortunate side alley of collecting old utility "lightweights" like these, and it has been like that for years. A decent New World might sell for a couple hundred dollars, but if you go strictly to parts values, the brake levers, hubs, stems, seats, etc. end up being more valuable. I've owned three New Worlds (pre and post war) where the bike arrived as just a core (compared to three that were complete, so a 50-50 proposition for me). That's maybe a frame, fenders, a few extra parts through in, etc. But certainly these cores had lost most of the ballooner-helpful parts.

I even had one that had been stripped once, then I bought the project and the seller stripped off the Miller kickstand before shipping it to me (without telling me). So that bike had been stripped twice of parts. Eventually I built all of these bikes back up to a complete state, some with correct period parts, and others with a few modern upgrades (depending on my feeling for whatever project was in front of me).

And that's just the basics. "Upgrade" parts like drum hubs and rare parts like the Webb levers and the flip-flop stems really invite part-outs.

I really appreciate when bikes like the New World show up with their levers, drums, etc. still attached. They're great bikes.


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## Pedals Past (Aug 26, 2020)

Oilit said:


> I haven't seen many lightweights with the drum brakes, but there's some good pictures of one on page 14 of this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



these pre war hubs will bring over a thousand dollars for the set and levers and cables for a 40-41 autocycle deluxe the chain guard another 2-300 for aerocycle ..... it would ruin this bike but be hard pressed to get $1250 I valued it at in the $150k pile when i bought it all .... the basket will bring $350 or ive had offers for it 25 years ago for it .... i have never seen another in 30 years of collecting i am going to keep this bike and display it with my other top 5 pre war bikes as my schwinn example ..... i sold all my five digit schwinns including aerocycles and autocycle deluxes this bike deserves to sit with my 36 commander,37 rms, 38 airflows, .... because when i sell it the vultures will cut those hubs out


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## charnleybob (Aug 26, 2020)

Cool bike!
I would not part that out!


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## bobcycles (Aug 26, 2020)

Anyone remember the green His and Hers Mint pair on ebay some years back?  Totally museum quality!    I think LaSalle badged or Lincoln...
Drum brakes and the works and showroom condish....sold for like 7 something...
I was the under bidder...should have bid more.

undervalued bikes 4 sure


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## Pedals Past (Aug 26, 2020)

bobcycles said:


> Anyone remember the green His and Hers Mint pair on ebay some years back?  Totally museum quality!    I think LaSalle badged or Lincoln...
> Drum brakes and the works and showroom condish....sold for like 7 something...
> I was the under bidder...should have bid more.
> 
> undervalued bikes 4 sure



1938-39 i believe if it was LaSalle badged or Lincoln i have a blue shield badged .... that was a buy


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## Pedals Past (Aug 26, 2020)

n9963?


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## Oilit (Aug 27, 2020)

Pedals Past said:


> n9963? View attachment 1255784



I believe the first letter is "D". @Miq has several examples of these on his list, dated to 1940. The unusual font for the "D" initially caused some confusion.








						Wartime Schwinn New World Bikes - We Know You Have Them - Tell Us About Them!! | Lightweight Schwinn Bicycles
					






					thecabe.com


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## Pedals Past (Aug 27, 2020)

looking at the pictures and chart in 42 it seems pretty common to have mixed braces and using the shielded badges now on the blue bike with caliper brakes wire braces shielded badge I would have to think earlier than this bike i go dig it out of tent pile at my yard get serial number 

thanks for info


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## Jeff54 (Aug 27, 2020)

Not to drag mud in but the obvious regarding rear mud guard seems to be over looked. The empty slot and hole. It's missing, was removed at some point, a bracket that was set under the fender. There's a rust spot where a washer had been used and  compressed it there, around the hole. That's no coincidence, not accidental. The current bracket, copper rivet and the nut, do not have patina that's equal to the other parts on this bike.

@pedals-past I don-a wan-a open a can-o-worms but, your  presumption of having a rivet tool to repair this, whelp, yeah works for today's logic but not yesterday. I mean, as example, heck in 50-60's plenty gas stations, plenty all across the US had all kin-a tools that plenty local kids could barrow, or a for a quarter and less, just have  repair guy pinch in.  Norman Rockwell painted a cover mid or just after WWII classic scene groups hanging around older station. As a kid and all through my teens or, out on rides say 1970 and few year more, plenty stations I could stop, patch a tire and or get a patch free, maybe a nickel or two at best,  and install myself You could rely in this fact and mostly, no need to even have tools to fix a flat because only a few ritzy stations like full service 76  wouldn't welcome ya,.  Back in the day, and long before me hit the planet, station attendants didn't sit at a window but, pulled two loads, if ya could not, in the least, perform some mechanical repair, up until, IDK say 1978-ish, you no get the job.

That fender was changed out from a bike that was mounted via the previous placement of currently un-used slot and hole.  The evidence of it is clearly obvious in your photo.

Why change it? Looks at the grips, man that there is some wear, this bike has been ridden a lot!  It's been used and cared for, for many many years. Ah, probably got nicked rear mud guard, bent up and care was continued with, maybe even by Schwinn dealer,  who knows or cares for that matter.

Museum quality verses collectible? That depends on subject, Factory glory or relic of the past, depression era, pre-WWII, WWII through, IDK somewhere in the 50-60's. This bike served the owner as a transportation vehicle,  loaded with all the equipment  very well through the war and far beyond. Heck, a good  tune up and it's ready to continue.  I couldn't imagine a WWII and Korean vet, not liking and remembering  any bike with its set up and durability, be it Schwinn or another. .  With it being  loaded with best in its class, It's a rolling museum that talks story, takes ya from hard times through the good, just as it is.

Oh, 1 more ting. Ya pulled the seat post out yet, another link. ? The original owner may have slipped paper or receipt in there.


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## Oilit (Aug 27, 2020)

Pedals Past said:


> looking at the pictures and chart in 42 it seems pretty common to have mixed braces and using the shielded badges now on the blue bike with caliper brakes wire braces shielded badge I would have to think earlier than this bike i go dig it out of tent pile at my yard get serial number
> 
> thanks for info



No problem. @Miq (with contributions from @GTs58) deserves the credit, I'm just passing it along.


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## Pedals Past (Aug 27, 2020)

Jeff54 said:


> Not to drag mud in but the obvious regarding rear mud guard seems to be over looked. The empty slot and hole. It's missing, was removed at some point, a bracket that was set under the fender. There's a rust spot where a washer had been used and  compressed it there, around the hole. That's no coincidence, not accidental. The current bracket, copper rivet and the nut, do not have patina that's equal to the other parts on this bike.
> 
> @pedals-past I don-a wan-a open a can-o-worms but, your  presumption of having a rivet tool to repair this, whelp, yeah works for today's logic but not yesterday. I mean, as example, heck in 50-60's plenty gas stations, plenty all across the US had all kin-a tools that plenty local kids could barrow, or a for a quarter and less, just have  repair guy pinch in.  Norman Rockwell painted a cover mid or just after WWII classic scene groups hanging around older station. As a kid and all through my teens or, out on rides say 1970 and few year more, plenty stations I could stop, patch a tire and or get a patch free, maybe a nickel or two at best,  and install myself You could rely in this fact and mostly, no need to even have tools to fix a flat because only a few ritzy stations like full service 76  wouldn't welcome ya,.  Back in the day, and long before me hit the planet, station attendants didn't sit at a window but, pulled two loads, if ya could not, in the least, perform some mechanical repair, up until, IDK say 1978-ish, you no get the job.
> 
> ...



no one ever quoted museum quality .... critics be announced is what we have i agree the rivet is newer and I can believe you can match patina even make it I know an expert however i dont believe this bike even collectible enough in the past for someone to search down one exactly to match in this particular situation as I was talking privately with a collector today about this exact topic the general summary of all this is pretty simple- 

The bike basher definition: a bunch old women sitting around in the knitting circle talking smack about the new neighbor that moved ins skirt being to short and all their husbands on saturday morning standing in the front yard drowling over her bent over pulling weeds in her lawn, the according group is jealous for tge attention and the husbands dreaming about someone other than the run of the mill wrinkle case pulling the weeds in their under wear .....

Opinions are like cracks everyone has one is all i was doing was sharing a rare glimpse of Marilyn in a catagory of collections of Roseann .... some people enjoy that version of the national anthem some take their hat off and stand up while its being sung with class ...... 

In 1978 you were buying gas at a discount at $1.75 at freddie fast gas and they were charging you a quarter to wash your window at the chevron and shell now maybe 1958 or even 68 they fixed your bike tire  but assuming ttat 54 in your handle makes you the same age as me either I got alshiemers  or you live in the backwoods of some hick town where they still had glass globes on the gas pumps in 1978 ...... but I can appreciate your input but that brace diesnt have a damn thing to do with why i posted the bike ..... it was to show the options that were available in 40-41 on these bikes for the guys who value the catagory ...... 



something new for you guys to critque - another case of if u got it lets rip the clothes off and see if it has hair ....... I just live for tge cabe


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