# 1941/46 CWC Something or Other frickin frame



## Bikehaus (Jul 11, 2022)

Super excited about this. It is my first restoration project for me and not a customer. After a crap ton of digging, what I thought was a '46, is actually a '41 because of the difference between the seat post clamp/binder and the rear fender bridge. Because it has no ears on the drop outs for a kickstand, it is the All-American produced in 1940/41.

This will be my first attempt at an Oxalic bath as well. I loosely wiped off a spot on the top tube to see a little paint. There was mud cakes on the hubs so the chrome on those is in great condition. Looks like the third design New Departure Large arm coaster brake with the single speed Model D hub.

So if anyone has information on the CWC All American, I'd love to see it. I don't want to repaint the bike, going to try and find the right parts for it. Couple spokes are as flexible as cooked noodles so I plan to rebuild the wheels with new spokes and nipples for strengths sake. It has the screws for the badge... just no badge.


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## tacochris (Jul 11, 2022)

That some what visually "squashed" look of the frame's stand-over height looks so weird Ive never seen one that noticeable.


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## Lonestar (Jul 11, 2022)

Can't wait to see your progress!


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## Bikehaus (Jul 11, 2022)

tacochris said:


> That some what visually "squashed" look of the frame's stand-over height looks so weird I've never seen one that noticeable.



As long as it is structurally sound I am happy. Im not a tall girl, 5'1 in my big shoes on a good day, so if it is a little lower to the ground I'm happy haha. I am not into ladies frames....


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## mrg (Jul 11, 2022)

You were right the first time, it is a 46-7, definitely not a pre war and definitely not a AA! ( AA is a completly different frame than anything else, a straight bar also ), the hole above the axle on chain side is another postwar giveaway, for the post war chain guard!. It is a odd frame, almost looks like a 24 with the short head set and squished looking rear. If it does have 26 in wheels I stand by my first statement it's CWC's attempt at a shorty frame and again what is the measurement from the center of the BB to the to of the seat clamp?


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## Bikehaus (Jul 11, 2022)

mrg said:


> You were right the first time, it is a 46-7, definitely not a pre war and definitely not a AA! ( AA is a completly different frame than anything else, a straight bar also ), the hole above the axle on chain side is another postwar giveaway, for the post war chain guard!. It is a odd frame, almost looks like a 24 with the short head set and squished looking rear. If it does have 26 in wheels I stand by my first statement it's CWC's attempt at a shorty frame and again what is the measurement from the center of the BB to the to of the seat clamp?



Poop... youre right. I must have misunderstood the page with the serial number breakdown... but it specifically showed the prewar JXXXXX serial number with the simple welded fender bridge and plain seat post as 1941, 1946 was more elaborate?


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## Bikehaus (Jul 11, 2022)

mrg said:


> You were right the first time, it is a 46-7, definitely not a pre war and definitely not a AA! ( AA is a completly different frame than anything else, a straight bar also ), the hole above the axle on chain side is another postwar giveaway, for the post war chain guard!. It is a odd frame, almost looks like a 24 with the short head set and squished looking rear. If it does have 26 in wheels I stand by my first statement it's CWC's attempt at a shorty frame and again what is the measurement from the center of the BB to the to of the seat clamp?



Was using this a s a guide








						Cleveland Welding Co. (Roadmaster) -
					

CWC started producing bikes in September of 1935. The serial number location of CWC bicycles from 1935-1956 is located underneath the bottom bracket. The early bikes (1935-36) could have used a serial starting with XX, Z , or A. The very early bikes starting with XX or Z appear rather crude (Fig...




					vintageamericanbicycles.com


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## mrg (Jul 11, 2022)

@Freqman1, the owner of that site my want to weight in here, that seat clamp was used a few yrs post war and a pic of a pre war AA will show the frame difference, using all the different features & #'s it's a late 46.


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## Bikehaus (Jul 11, 2022)

I did find a pic of an AA frame so I am with you on that. Thank you for letting me know! what about the fender bridge?


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## Bikehaus (Jul 11, 2022)

AA frame


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## mrg (Jul 11, 2022)

Ok we may be talking about two different things, CWC had a badge saying All American that could have came on many different styles of CWC built bikes, the All American model was built by CWC ( and Snyder ) for Montgomery Ward dept store and sold as a Hawthorn AA only in 40-1, that frame was different from any other, no drop stand ears, straight bar & a few different bends. yours is a 3 gill style frame with a few unusual/different features, still wait to hear your BB to seat clamp top measurement?


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## Bikehaus (Jul 11, 2022)

mrg said:


> Ok we may be talking about two different things, CWC had a badge saying All American that could have came on many different styles of CWC built bikes, the All American model was built by CWC ( and Snyder ) for Montgomery Ward dept store and sold as a Hawthorn AA only in 40-1, that frame was different from any other, no drop stand ears, straight bar & a few different bends. yours is a 3 gill style frame with a few unusual/different features, still wait to hear your BB to seat clamp top measurement?



16" from top of BB to top of seat clamp


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## mrg (Jul 11, 2022)

Standard size for a pre & post war CWC 3 gill frame is around 18" so as I said it's either CWC attempt at a shorty frame or somebody modified a frame or it's a 24" frame, the head size does look like a 24 and the bars look to close to fit a standard tank. somebody chime in here? @fordmike65, @Freqman1, anyone?


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## TieDye (Jul 11, 2022)

mrg said:


> Standard size for a pre & post war CWC 3 gill frame is around 18" so as I said it's either CWC attempt at a shorty frame or somebody modified a frame or it's a 24" frame, the head size does look like a 24 and the bars look to close to fit a standard tank. somebody chime in here? @fordmike65, @Freqman1, anyone?



The frame has been messed with. Note the bottom bar of the top 2 bars where it attaches to the head.  See the red circle in the pic. It's not original, but is a bad repair.   The height of the head is too short as well for a 26" frame. Look at the green section on this chart, at the J there.  It's postwar, 1947, and has a modified/repaired frame.
Deb


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## Archie Sturmer (Jul 11, 2022)

Is there a weld bead repair at the joint between the seat tube and the bottom bracket crank hanger?


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## TieDye (Jul 11, 2022)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Is there a weld bead repair at the joint between the seat tube and the bottom bracket crank hanger?



These spots are messed up.


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## Bikehaus (Jul 11, 2022)

Those two spots look fine, but indeed there is a weld at the BB... I didn't see it until about an hour ago cleaning off dirt and rust


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## TieDye (Jul 11, 2022)

Bikehaus said:


> Those two spots look fine, but indeed there is a weld at the BB... I didn't see it until about an hour ago cleaning off dirt and rust
> 
> View attachment 1660708
> 
> ...



Yup, that's obvious, but the pic here shows the arch in this rear frame section has been bent down.  It's normally a nice curve there.


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## TieDye (Jul 11, 2022)

Bikehaus said:


> Those two spots look fine, but indeed there is a weld at the BB... I didn't see it until about an hour ago cleaning off dirt and rust
> 
> View attachment 1660708
> 
> ...



Take a good side view picture of the rear frame as it curves down from the top to the bottom there.  It shouldn't have a flatten section.  It curves beautifully as that side frame goes down.  Like here:


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## fordmike65 (Jul 11, 2022)

mrg said:


> Standard size for a pre & post war CWC 3 gill frame is around 18" so as I said it's either CWC attempt at a shorty frame or somebody modified a frame or it's a 24" frame, the head size does look like a 24 and the bars look to close to fit a standard tank. somebody chime in here? @fordmike65, @Freqman1, anyone?



Been talking about it

Thread 'Monark Maybe?' https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/monark-maybe.211203/


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## Bikehaus (Jul 11, 2022)

well, f**k. bummer, but I still think its a cool bike, and as it is my first vintage for me, Ill take it as unique. Like I said, I am short girl, and I don't like ladies frames... so this one was destined for me.

Still torn on the age though, that other link was really specific about the fender bridge, seat clamp being '41. I have not seen any photos of a '46/47 Roadmaster with the '41 style bridge and SC


fordmike65 said:


> Been talking about it
> 
> Thread 'Monark Maybe?' https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/monark-maybe.211203/



yeah, that was me... as well, same bike, same issues.


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## fordmike65 (Jul 11, 2022)

@TieDye 

Another similar CWC frame that was posted here a while back, so I'm not so sure it's been messed with. It is a strange one for sure tho...


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## GTs58 (Jul 11, 2022)

Bikehaus said:


> 16" from top of BB to top of seat clamp




I just knew it! Cool little 26 incher frame.


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## fordmike65 (Jul 11, 2022)

Bikehaus said:


> well, f**k. bummer, but I still think its a cool bike, and as it is my first vintage for me, Ill take it as unique. Like I said, I am short girl, and I don't like ladies frames... so this one was destined for me.
> 
> Still torn on the age though, that other link was really specific about the fender bridge, seat clamp being '41. I have not seen any photos of a '46/47 Roadmaster with the '41 style bridge and SC
> 
> yeah, that was me... as well, same bike, same issues.



I say fix it up and enjoy! Sounds like it's a perfect fit! Who cares what it is!


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## TieDye (Jul 11, 2022)

fordmike65 said:


> @TieDye
> 
> Another similar CWC frame that was posted here a while back, so I'm not so sure it's been messed with. It is a strange one for sure tho...
> 
> View attachment 1660741



Study the pics I posted in comments.  It's been messed with and repaired. The bike here in your pic is different.


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## TieDye (Jul 11, 2022)

Bikehaus said:


> well, f**k. bummer, but I still think its a cool bike, and as it is my first vintage for me, Ill take it as unique. Like I said, I am short girl, and I don't like ladies frames... so this one was destined for me.
> 
> Still torn on the age though, that other link was really specific about the fender bridge, seat clamp being '41. I have not seen any photos of a '46/47 Roadmaster with the '41 style bridge and SC
> 
> yeah, that was me... as well, same bike, same issues.



Postwar seat clamps looked like prewar ones, welded on, up until 1949 on most CWC models.  Then they were detachable.  See the difference?


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## TieDye (Jul 11, 2022)

fordmike65 said:


> I say fix it up and enjoy! Sounds like it's a perfect fit! Who cares what it is!



The welded repaired areas on this frame could be problematic, and potentially unsafe.  Be careful and have it checked by a knowledgeable person.


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## Bikehaus (Jul 11, 2022)

TieDye said:


> The welded repaired areas on this frame could be problematic, and potentially unsafe.  Be careful and have it checked by a knowledgeable person.



I married to that knowledgeable person... having him take a look tonight. The welds look good. I don't plan on bombing any bike parks with this baby, just rolling thru some booze cruise rides.


TieDye said:


> Postwar seat clamps looked like prewar ones, welded on, up until 1949 on most CWC models.  Then they were detachable.  See the difference?
> 
> View attachment 1660745
> 
> View attachment 1660746



I do see the difference, and I keep going back to this link. The post war ones have that little bubble in them. Mine does not and it is welded on.








						Cleveland Welding Co. (Roadmaster) -
					

CWC started producing bikes in September of 1935. The serial number location of CWC bicycles from 1935-1956 is located underneath the bottom bracket. The early bikes (1935-36) could have used a serial starting with XX, Z , or A. The very early bikes starting with XX or Z appear rather crude (Fig...




					vintageamericanbicycles.com
				




I hope you all know I am not trying to argue, I really appreciate all your input. I want to be as accurate (as I can be) with a bike that I now know has been cut up and squished down haha


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## Bikehaus (Jul 11, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> I just knew it! Cool little 26 incher frame.



yay, thank you... I was starting to feel a little down about this. I still think it is a fun frame and has some good potential


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## TieDye (Jul 11, 2022)

Bikehaus said:


> I married to that knowledgeable person... having him take a look tonight. The welds look good. I don't plan on bombing any bike parks with this baby, just rolling thru some booze cruise rides.
> 
> I do see the difference, and I keep going back to this link. The post war ones have that little bubble in them. Mine does not and it is welded on.
> 
> ...



Ok, you're still not understanding this.  In the 2 seat clamp pics I posted, the first pic with welded on is on a 1948 CWC.  The detachable "ribbed one"  is on a 1950.  With the exception of the Luxury Liner models they were all welded on styles until 1949. Then detachable.  Luxury Luners were detachable.


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## TieDye (Jul 11, 2022)

@Bikehaus   Here's some pics of my 1941 CWC GXE Thrift model, badged as a Fulmers.  Look at the fender bridge, peaked fenders, and welded seat clamp.
1946-1948 had peaked fenders with a different fender bridge, and the same welded seat clamps,  unless they were Luxury Liners, then they were detachable clamps.  Also, note the presence of the rear frame "ears" for the rear stand.   1946 and newer did not have those.
I'm all for you having fun with it.  Just be sure it's safe to ride.  You can customize it all you want.  Have fun!!


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## Bikehaus (Jul 11, 2022)

TieDye said:


> @Bikehaus   Here's some pics of my 1941 CWC GXE Thrift model, badged as a Fulmers.  Look at the fender bridge, peaked fenders, and welded seat clamp.
> 1946-1948 had peaked fenders with a different fender bridge, and the same welded seat clamps,  unless they were Luxury Liners, then they were detachable clamps.  Also, note the presence of the rear frame "ears" for the rear stand.   1946 and newer did not have those.
> I'm all for you having fun with it.  Just be sure it's safe to ride.  You can customize it all you want.  Have fun!!
> 
> ...



Thank you. This helps ❤️


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## JLF (Jul 11, 2022)

A cool little bike!  Looking foward to see how it turns out.


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## mrg (Jul 11, 2022)

@Bikehaus as said, a 46-7 3 gill shorty frame ( perfect for a short girl ) with the plus of running 26" wheels, whoever did it looks like a good solid job, no use comparing completely different frames! it's a post war 3 gill style ( but with a short head set probably never had a tank ), good project and can't wait to see it rollin!😎


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## rustjunkie (Jul 11, 2022)

i’ll bet a mexican coke it’s orig


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## fordmike65 (Jul 11, 2022)

rustjunkie said:


> i’ll bet a mexican coke it’s orig



Me too.


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## Archie Sturmer (Jul 11, 2022)

Bikehaus said:


> There is a *weld* at the BB... I didn't see it until about an hour ago cleaning off dirt and rust
> View attachment 1660710



Yes, that may be one of the tell-tale pictures right there, (how’d they do it); not as clear in the other pictures, or the Monark thread.


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## GTs58 (Jul 11, 2022)

fordmike65 said:


> Me too.



Me tree.


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## GTs58 (Jul 11, 2022)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Yes, that may be one of the tell-tale pictures right there, (how’d they do it); not as clear in the other pictures, or the Monark thread.




Looks factory to me. The original paint was the maroon, and there is still original paint on that weld.


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## mrg (Jul 12, 2022)

@Bikehaus, you got 3 weeks to get it ready for the SF ride!


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## TieDye (Jul 12, 2022)

mrg said:


> @Bikehaus as said, a 46-7 3 gill shorty frame ( perfect for a short girl ) with the plus of running 26" wheels, whoever did it looks like a good solid job, no use comparing completely different frames! it's a post war 3 gill style ( but with a short head set probably never had a tank ), good project and can't wait to see it rollin!😎




Yup, those top bars aren't right to accommodate a 3 gill tank.  It never could have had a tank.
Here's a quick comparison between hers and our serial #J32667 46-47 3 gill tank accommodating Roadmaster that we've been working on.
Compare too the shape of the top rear frame arch as it goes down. Definitely different.


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## TieDye (Jul 12, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> Looks factory to me. The original paint was the maroon, and there is still original paint on that weld.



Here's the factory BB welds on a #J32667 late 1946-47 frame for comparison. And hers. She said there's a weld repair there.  Quite a difference between the 2.  Just doesn't look right.


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## Gimletbikes (Jul 12, 2022)

Maybe a bear rode that bike in a traveling circus and crushed it down slowly over time


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## rustjunkie (Jul 12, 2022)

Short Man's Roadmaster | Classic Balloon Tire Bicycles 1933-1965
					

Looking for any and all info on this Cleveland.    I am not so much concerned with what is original, but more with the frame itself.    It has 26" wheels, tires and fenders but the geometry is completely different from any other CWC i've seen.   The top tubes are pretty close together, the...




					thecabe.com


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## OSCAR...N... (Jul 12, 2022)

1939/40 (26×1.25) Bike for (5feets) or less 0, (ENANOS)

NOT FOR (6/4) PEOPLE...JIJIJIJI...

Espero ESTA AYUDE....
 👀  👀  👀  😙😙😙


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## fordmike65 (Jul 12, 2022)

rustjunkie said:


> View attachment 1660920
> View attachment 1660926



I knew it was legit! That's the one I saw a while back. The blue one was posted by @bikewhorder on the other thread discussing @Bikehaus bike.  One thing I've learned not to do( and seen here much too often) is not to be so quick to discount something like this and say it just can't be. Just like those freakishly tall Schwinn motorbikes. Everyone said the first one posted here must've been modified. Well, then several others have popped up in the past few years. Thanks @rustjunkie !


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## fordmike65 (Jul 12, 2022)

TieDye said:


> Here's the factory BB welds on a #J32667 late 1946-47 frame for comparison. And hers. She said there's a weld repair there.  Quite a difference between the 2.  Just doesn't look right.
> 
> View attachment 1660911
> 
> View attachment 1660913



No one is saying it never had any repairs. I've seen many bike frames repaired there at the BB. The rest of the frame is legit and not modified to be a shorter frame.


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## Bikehaus (Jul 12, 2022)

mrg said:


> @Bikehaus, you got 3 weeks to get it ready for the SF ride



Which one?


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## fordmike65 (Jul 12, 2022)

Bikehaus said:


> Which one?



Thread 'Rolling Relics S.F. ride July 30th' https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/rolling-relics-s-f-ride-july-30th.210634/


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## OSCAR...N... (Jul 12, 2022)

fordmike65 said:


> I knew it was legit! That's the one I saw a while back. The blue one was posted by @bikewhorder on the other thread discussing @Bikehaus bike.  One thing I've learned not to do( and seen here much too often) is not to be so quick to discount something like this and say it just can't be. Just like those freakishly tall Schwinn motorbikes. Everyone said the first one posted here must've been modified. Well, then several others have popped up in the past few years. Thanks @rustjunkie !






fordmike65 said:


> No one is saying it never had any repairs. I've seen many bike frames repaired there at the BB. The rest of the frame is legit and not modified to be a shorter frame.






fordmike65 said:


> Thread 'Rolling Relics S.F. ride July 30th' https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/rolling-relics-s-f-ride-july-30th.210634/



Tu eres muy grande y ??? Noo Nooo,

Inventes NOOO NOO TE QUEDA... 👀  👀  👀  🤣  🤣  🤣  🤣

Aaahhii Luuulyyy... 👀  😜  🤣


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## Bikehaus (Jul 12, 2022)

Felixnegron said:


> Tu eres muy grande y ??? Noo Nooo,
> 
> Inventes NOOO NOO TE QUEDA... 👀  👀  👀  🤣  🤣  🤣  🤣



We will be racing in Ukiah that weekend.  Looks like fun though, next year!


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## Freqman1 (Jul 12, 2022)

Too bad Phil doesn’t contribute any longer. This one would have been squarely in his wheelhouse!


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## fordmike65 (Jul 12, 2022)

TieDye said:


> The frame has been messed with. Note the bottom bar of the top 2 bars where it attaches to the head.  See the red circle in the pic. It's not original, but is a bad repair.   The height of the head is too short as well for a 26" frame. Look at the green section on this chart, at the J there.  It's postwar, 1947, and has a modified/repaired frame.
> Deb
> 
> View attachment 1660690
> ...






TieDye said:


> These spots are messed up.
> 
> View attachment 1660706
> 
> View attachment 1660707



Not seeing it 🧐


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## mrg (Jul 12, 2022)

rustjunkie said:


> View attachment 1660920
> View attachment 1660926
> 
> 
> ...



Ya, factory CWC shorty frame! Phil would have had the info on this back in the day but Scott @rustjunkie wins the coke here, That's the only frame to compare with, you do better with the search engine here, I could not find the pic anywhere!, @Bikehaus still like to varify it has 26" wheels?


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## Bikehaus (Jul 12, 2022)

mrg said:


> Ya, factory CWC shorty frame! Phil would have had the info on this back in the day but Scott @rustjunkie wins the coke here, you do better with the search engine here, I could not find the pic anywhere!, @Bikehaus still like to varify it has 26" wheels?



I am sorry, I thought I had. Yes, 26"


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## mrg (Jul 12, 2022)

Ok, big question is racing what at Ukiah?


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## Bikehaus (Jul 12, 2022)

mrg said:


> Ok, big question is racing what at Ukiah?



BMX. I have a 20", but I prefer my 26" Dirt Jumper in the cruiser group


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## Bikehaus (Jul 12, 2022)

Bikehaus said:


> BMX. I have a 20", but I prefer my 26" Dirt Jumper in the cruiser group
> 
> View attachment 1661100







I like 26"


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## TieDye (Jul 12, 2022)

fordmike65 said:


> No one is saying it never had any repairs. I've seen many bike frames repaired there at the BB. The rest of the frame is legit and not modified to be a shorter frame.



For the record, I never said it was made shorter.  I just pointed out the BB weld repair, and areas of concern and difference, and wanted her to make sure the repair is good, and safe to ride.


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## TieDye (Jul 12, 2022)

fordmike65 said:


> Not seeing it 🧐



My other comparison pics were posted before she did some cleanup and posted better pictures of those areas I circled. When that was done, it ruled out the red circled areas.  But, the BB weld repair was proven by her pic.  Also, the pics I posted to actually be able to compare her frame to a 46-7  26"  3 gill tank frame helped to rule that out.  Her initial post was all wrong.  It's not a 41 AA frame, and it's not a 46-47 3 gill frame either.  That we know.  We also now know the BB was repaired.  Sometimes to get to the reality of what it is requires good comparison pics,  questions being answered, etc.  Through the flow of the conversations here, she now has answers that changed the reality of what this cool CWC bike is and has helped the project, and now she can go in the right direction with her easy to ride bike.  So, it's all good.


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## Bikehaus (Jul 13, 2022)

So before I break out the drill...

This bike is so rusty and seized up. A day in triflow did not matter. The bolt from the headset into the fork (which I assumed would be in a quill but is not) snapped off inside the fork. I can't get the screw out of the fender to seperate that from the fork either.

Thinking the Oxalic bath might help the fender screw... but what do you guys suggest to get the bolt out of the fork without blowing out the threads?


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## fordmike65 (Jul 13, 2022)

More days soaking in penetrant & kill it with fire.


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## BF2485 (Jul 13, 2022)

try some Aerokroil , it's good stuff!!


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## Bikehaus (Jul 14, 2022)

It's been in an Oxalic bath today and I am finding what I thought was rust and lime was rust and a rattle can spray job. More paint left than I thought.

Considering acetone to pull that blue paint with a qtip? Unless there is a better way!


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## mrg (Jul 14, 2022)

Lookin good, OA good for rust over paint ( take your time with the blue ) but will do nothing for you rusty/broken bolts, just soaking/time sometimes heat, try to save that goose neck if you can!


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## Bikehaus (Jul 15, 2022)

Well, the question now becomes: to paint or not to paint.

The second bar was removed and welded as well, not sure if the "Short Man's Frame" someone posted the other was an actual thing or something people did just to modify. The chrome on the handlebars is shot. The OA bath did nothing to save it, chainring is looking great. I hit this with a light coat of clear to keep it from rerusting.

I am torn, now that it is not "original" with the modified Frame, I want to replace the bars because I love my chrome. I am going to replace all the spokes for integrity sake. Ugh... looking for input on a value level here from those that know.   In the end, I am still looking for a Monark and this will go to my boyfriend. Not planning to sell, but nice to keep as much original as possible right?


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## saladshooter (Jul 15, 2022)

Bikehaus said:


> The second bar was removed and welded as well,




Just looks like the paint fell off the braze from here.


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## fordmike65 (Jul 15, 2022)

saladshooter said:


> Just looks like the paint fell off the braze from here.



That's what I was thinking. Pretty common on CWC bikes from what I've seen.


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## Bikehaus (Jul 15, 2022)

saladshooter said:


> Just looks like the paint fell off the braze from here.



Here are some closer ups. Some joints look welded, others are totally clean. I have never dealt with this, so I don't know if it is normal or not


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## saladshooter (Jul 15, 2022)

I don't think there could be original paint that close to a braze. Everything looks good to me from here.


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## mrg (Jul 15, 2022)

Looks og to me, I'd build as is, patina rider, you can always paint down the road!


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## mrg (Jul 15, 2022)

I'm a bit of a CWC 3 gill guy but damm that's a cool frame!, If you ever let it go I'm in!


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## ozzie (Jul 16, 2022)

I would not repaint. Looks way cool as is.


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 16, 2022)

mrg said:


> Standard size for a pre & post war CWC 3 gill frame is around 18" so as I said it's either CWC attempt at a shorty frame or somebody modified a frame or it's a 24" frame, the head size does look like a 24 and the bars look to close to fit a standard tank. somebody chime in here? @fordmike65, @Freqman1, anyone?



I think you are right about the shorter 24" frame as I had one of these frames that I had got from my brother Joe and traded up for a twin bar Monark a while back.. COOOL looking bike any way.. Should be a good fit for you.. RideOn.. Mark..


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 16, 2022)

Bikehaus said:


> So before I break out the drill...
> 
> This bike is so rusty and seized up. A day in triflow did not matter. The bolt from the headset into the fork (which I assumed would be in a quill but is not) snapped off inside the fork. I can't get the screw out of the fender to seperate that from the fork either.
> 
> Thinking the Oxalic bath might help the fender screw... but what do you guys suggest to get the bolt out of the fork without blowing out the threads?



Break out the "Flame wrench " and heat her up good to cherry red and grab it with a vice grips and it should turn out.. Good luck...


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 16, 2022)

Bikehaus said:


> Well, the question now becomes: to paint or not to paint.
> 
> The second bar was removed and welded as well, not sure if the "Short Man's Frame" someone posted the other was an actual thing or something people did just to modify. The chrome on the handlebars is shot. The OA bath did nothing to save it, chainring is looking great. I hit this with a light coat of clear to keep it from rerusting.
> 
> ...



If you like your chrome as much as I do, take your handlebars down to bare metal and rattle can them with some silver paint and they look really nice this way and a lot cheaper than replating.....


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## rustjunkie (Jul 16, 2022)

Bikehaus said:


> Well, the question now becomes: to paint or not to paint.
> 
> The second bar was removed and welded as well, not sure if the "Short Man's Frame" someone posted the other was an actual thing or something people did just to modify. The chrome on the handlebars is shot. The OA bath did nothing to save it, chainring is looking great. I hit this with a light coat of clear to keep it from rerusting.
> 
> ...




leave it be


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## GTs58 (Jul 16, 2022)

rustjunkie said:


> leave it be


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## Jeff54 (Jul 17, 2022)

That front post with the lower bar being brazed and l am pretty sure that's leaded to make smooth. Lead is most likely why the paint fails on these types of jointing methods, it oxidizes or whatever as microscopic stuff grows on old lead when any moisture has gotten to it..  It would be mainly used over brass brazing to make the joint smooth and otherwise looks correct. Or rather, in girl's I have a 48-9 and the center bar in-between top and lower are brazed and smooth. The upper stays are also brazed to the seat post.

On pre-war lower rear stays are straight, yours are curved, that's a sure sign of post war bike. Additionally, the fork's shoulders are just like Schwinn's. Pre-war is similar except the shoulders have bumps on em, like 'Sholder pads' You can just about see this on mrg's examples that also have straight rear stays. They also have, in front, a little molded-in extension for a fender screw mount.

That  rear drop-out is also a post war feature, I think before 1948.

Yet that brazed on bottom bracket, that's pretty odd for a 46 but, whelp, the danged frame is odd to.

I also have the same 41 girl's bike mrg shows but house painted many, many years ago: ears, shoulder pads peaked fenders, straight fender brackets and a ladies seat except for one weird thing. The danged serial numbers make no sense at  all.  A few numbers couple of letters and jumbled like nobody's ever seen.

However, for an old interview where he was bragging about having more than 100 different badges on his desktop; I think; The CWC dude was like the mad hatter or a kid in a candy store, tossing all kinds of different things together, mixing paint colors and styles, head badges, old parts on new, U name it so, in some cases, U just never know why or what he'd toss up and hit the floor. .

I mean, all those badges, I expect he'd make them for anybody who walked in the door to buy a package of bikes to be made.
Potentially this frame may have been designed earlier but  shelved pre-war or during WWII and for the 1946 date, revisited with post war materials.


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## Bikehaus (Aug 12, 2022)

Been slowly chipping away at the rebuild. Hoping to get a replacement wedge this weekend at a local shop that stocks vintage parts. Gonna start the wheel rebuild tomorrow night. Side by side pic was rust removal and a quick coat of clear gloss. They have come a long way...


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## mrg (Aug 12, 2022)

Can't wait to see it back on the road, I like the clear satin better because it's sealed but not so shiny.


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