# Share and Question Late 20’s Winchester Original Paint Motorbike



## cr250mark (Aug 11, 2019)

I recently Aquired this Winchester 
Love the profile of this bike.  
I am fond of early Motorbikes 
Man neither I’m a horrible researcher but I cannot find a lot of info and or factual history on this bicycle or manufacturer manufacturer.
Killer chainwheel - first ive seen - any info would be great
Leather mudflap
Locking stand
Model A hub tells me most likely 20’s 
Tiny black pins. - unusual pattern. Not typical box or block striping 
Any idea what the Red Black and White flag on seat tube Is ?
First of this kind of grips I have had come on a bicycle that i have owned , different , cool bee hive pattern , very Cool 
Please any info would be great and or appreciated 
Thank you 
Mark


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## Archie Sturmer (Aug 11, 2019)

Like other firearms manufacturers, Winchester expanded into hardware and bikes; I forget which hdwr store, but one may have been E.C. Simmons of St. Louis, MO.  https://www.castironcollector.com/simmons.php
_"1922 - Firm sold to Winchester Repeating Arms. 
"1934 - Great Depression causes Winchester to file for bankruptcy. _
The historical connection does not mean that bicycles were manufactured by Win.
The Simmons ads show sprockets with the 7 space invaders vectoring inward.
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/teens-military-frame.156489/#post-1057305 
I have believed that those were Snyder Harris Rollfast parts; due to connection in the Hyslop catalog. 
We have also seen the later Winny badges by D.P. Harris.


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## bike (Aug 11, 2019)

I have owned maybe 15 Winchester badges but have yet to see the paper that connects them to firearms, unlike Illion NY Remingtons...

PS you keep coming up with the nice bikes!


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## markivpedalpusher (Aug 11, 2019)

Nice bike Mark!


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## OldSkipTooth (Aug 11, 2019)

Nice bike! I’m wondering if the fork is bent on just a tad?


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## hoofhearted (Aug 12, 2019)

*They don't get much more beautifuller that this one.*

*You are the fortunate son, today.*

*….. patric*


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## cr250mark (Aug 12, 2019)

OldSkipTooth said:


> Nice bike! I’m wondering if the fork is bent on just a tad?




When I pulled front fork and wheel out to look 
Man it looks straight by eye 
If it is it’s a tad !
I put up a perfect side view 
Fork looks straight to upper tube.


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## cr250mark (Aug 12, 2019)

Anyone see this logo or stamp on seat tube 
Red , black and white. 

FYI. Thanks for feedback 
Looking a little more at hardware bicycles (EC Simmons , Shapleigh and or true value ) 
Trying to find a little more info. 
I also have not seen any attachment to Winchester Arms manufacturer 
When referring to the cabe site from the past 
There is very little about these Winchester s that pops up.


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## bricycle (Aug 12, 2019)

There are two versions of this chain wheel nearly identical. One is a Victor the other was on a Montgomery Ward Hawthorne No.1. Could have been same maker.
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/sold-early-hawthorne-frame.39167/

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/toc-1899-hawthorne.152439/

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/sundays-show-and-tell-4-12-15.72042/#post-445266


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## cr250mark (Aug 12, 2019)

Thanks Bri. 
Very similar on Hawthorne but slightly different. 
Cut outs around crank arm different 
This may not matter and may only be a difference In age ( man. Date) 
Thank you 
Mark


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## 99 bikes (Aug 12, 2019)

Really cool bike, and very similar to my lovely two tone green teens roadster: 

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/two-tone-greenie.92779/ 

The fork rake, fillet brazing, chainstays, and small diameter stay braces are all the same to my eye. I've done a fair bit of research on my bike and I think it might be a Michigan City Excelsior.

Here is a helpful link.

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/i-would-like-to-know-excelsior-ec-simmons-peerless-colson.101294/

Any chance that you could post a photo of the serial number? Thank you for posting.


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## Greeced lightning (Aug 12, 2019)

Very nice bike, all around. I especially like that chainring.


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## cr250mark (Aug 13, 2019)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Like other firearms manufacturers, Winchester expanded into hardware and bikes; I forget which hdwr store, but one may have been E.C. Simmons of St. Louis, MO.  https://www.castironcollector.com/simmons.php
> _"1922 - Firm sold to Winchester Repeating Arms.
> "1934 - Great Depression causes Winchester to file for bankruptcy. _
> The historical connection does not mean that bicycles were manufactured by Win.
> ...






Thank you for literature 
Useful stuff 
Catalog is dating a few these items earlier than 20’s into teens. 
Add nailed chainring down.


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## Kato (Aug 13, 2019)

Holy Toledo - what a find - Congrats !!!!      I'm going with patric - " you are the fortunate son today " 
This going to be a fun thread to watch !!!




Above is supposed to be a 1915

I'm going to have to dig for info I found when looking for info on mine.
I had a ladies Winchester but it was a 40' / 50's built by DP Harris and I've seen a same era mens tanker also built by DP Harris

Winchester sold all kinds of things back in the day.....including motorcycles / only 200 though.
Check out the prices on these.......only 2 known to exist.

https://newatlas.com/winchester-worlds-most-expensive-motorcycle/32006/

More misc

https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/241906-winchester-5-panel-window-display-dated

http://www.thckk.org/history/winchester-hist.pdf

Not sure if same link as somebody attached above..........check out the sprocket
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1911-simmons-hardware-cool-bikes.122888/
So I'm thinking a Simmons bike re-badged as a Winchester once the 2 companies merged......might help with year ??

*Did I say this was going to be a fun thread to watch !!!!!*


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## gkeep (Aug 13, 2019)

Fantastic bike. Does the flag look like it's added? Looks like a yacht club burgee. Maybe the owner was a yachty type and painted the club flag on the bike? Maybe he belonged to a cycling club and they had a club flag? Something along these lines.


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Aug 13, 2019)

I have the Plate................................WISH I had the Bike to go with it !


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## cr250mark (Aug 14, 2019)

CURTIS L LINDGREN said:


> I have the Plate................................WISH I had the Bike to go with it !
> 
> View attachment 1046652





Killer plate !!


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## Mercian (Aug 14, 2019)

Hi All,

Similar chainwheels on this 1914 advert (Scroll down to Feb 24th 2014)

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/april-28-1914-bicycling-and-motorcycle-review.54440/

(later....)

And this 1915 advert for a 'Nassau', fifth post down.

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1915.111774/ 

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## cr250mark (Aug 15, 2019)

Mercian said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Similar chainwheels on this 1914 advert (Scroll down to Feb 24th 2014)
> 
> ...





Great stuff in here thank you 
I see several images and dates pointing this chainwheel to teens 
1914-16 
Helps with direction of search thank s again. 

Mark


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