# Ebay problems; as usual



## Jesper (Nov 21, 2022)

I recently acquired a new bike on trade and wanted to see if I could find a nice saddle for it (bike was complete sans saddle and pedals).
I do not use ebay except in rare cases, but I figured I would check it out. Bingo, a perfect NOS saddle at a reasonable price; Bassano leather saddle with Fondriest embroidered logos and manufactured in January 1998 for a '97-'98 Fondriest X Status.

I really don't have any "newer" bikes so I didn't think much about the listing when it stated that the saddle was leather covered. I am familiar with most older saddles and know which are leather or not, and I have Bassano saddles of earlier manufacture which are leather covered so I bought it without any thought.

The saddle arrived and is mint condition (as is the bike!), but upon inspection I discovered that the cover is cloth reinforced vinyl or whatever synthetic stuff they used. I have no problem with the fact that it is not leather, only that it was misrepresented and could have been easily discerned by the seller, who given his experience (long time ebay seller, European, only sells vintage bikes) should know better than to go by looks alone. I relied on his knowledge to properly list the item and I am glad this item was not for a client since I would have looked like a fool should I have sold it as a leather saddle myself.

At this time I have asked for a partial refund (10% off cost) since I would still use the saddle as it is, but I hate the fact that I now have to spend more time on ebay, wait for seller response, and monitor my account to ensure refund is indeed received.

Moral of this is to ask the seller, unless you are absolutely sure or do not care, to physically verify and if possible provide a photo to prove whether an item is real leather or is some type of synthetic "leather" material. If I can do it (see photo) than so can the seller.


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## phantom (Nov 21, 2022)

The older I get, which is pretty old now, the less I read and the more I just look at the pictures.


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## fattyre (Nov 21, 2022)

Did they make a leather version?


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## Frank and Pam Skid Kings (Nov 21, 2022)

Pretty cool seat anyway !


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## Robert Troub (Nov 21, 2022)

Jesper said:


> I recently acquired a new bike on trade and wanted to see if I could find a nice saddle for it (bike was complete sans saddle and pedals).
> I do not use ebay except in rare cases, but I figured I would check it out. Bingo, a perfect NOS saddle at a reasonable price; Bassano leather saddle with Fondriest embroidered logos and manufactured in January 1998 for a '97-'98 Fondriest X Status.
> 
> I really don't have any "newer" bikes so I didn't think much about the listing when it stated that the saddle was leather covered. I am familiar with most older saddles and know which are leather or not, and I have Bassano saddles of earlier manufacture which are leather covered so I bought it without any thought.
> ...



eBay has a liberal return policy, open a case, the seller will respond with an option, and you're done......it's easy.....


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## Jesper (Nov 21, 2022)

fattyre said:


> Did they make a leather version?



I am not aware of a leather version, nor was I when purchased. Bassano does, or did, make leather saddles because I have used them before.


Robert Troub said:


> eBay has a liberal return policy, open a case, the seller will respond with an option, and you're done......it's easy.....



I am well versed in ebay's policies. Many that they themselves do not adhere to which is why I tend to avoid the site. I have had to return a "leather" item in the past, but I have also had ebay allow sellers to fraudulently back out of sales on auctions I have won which cost me clients. I have had a seller admit to lying to me to back out of a sale and rhe individual used ebay's message system. Ebay did nothing and said there was nothing they could do; another lie. I just rarely use that site because of the loopholes in their "policies".
I do not believe that the seller was intentionally trying to deceive me, and I have already contacted them. This situation could happen anywhere; I am merely giving some advice on how to potentially avoid it.
I want the saddle, but when purchasing I also want the truth. As someone who runs a business I know what it means to make mistakes; no one is perfect. Yet one must male a decent attempt at due diligence and this situation could easily have been avoided by a simple rudimentary inspection by the seller prior to listing an item based on an assumption. I don't know something I get professional/experienced help before making an assumption, and if I am not confident as to the veracity I will admit that openly which allows a buyer to use the "caveat emptor" clause before buying. If I was the seller I would have simply stated that I think the saddle was leather but I am not sure and it would be a buy at your own risk matter at which point a buyer could adk me to inspect and photogragh, if possible, the item to verify is composition in this case just as I easily did when I had it in hand. No harm, no foul at that point since a buyer would be able to make a more educated decision at that point. I know that this is the last time this will occur with this particular type of purchase because I will in advance of purchasing request that the item be properly inspected by a seller regardless of what they have it listed as. This whole situation relates specically to the proper identification of leather, but can certainly be expanded into other areas. I am merely warning folks to have an item verified as best as possible if there is any doubt before buying regardless of where and how the item is purchased. 

I have learned my lesspn and hope other heed my caution.

I always contact a seller first before getting ebay involved which allows the seller the chance to dhow their integrity and correct a problem before having to bring the ebay "keystone cops" "policy enforcers". Also, ebay's live customer service is an absolute joke and has been for me an utter waste of time since they have NEVER resolved one issue even when they have the evidence shown in their own system. As I stated, lessons learned through years prior.
My best relationships with buyers has been outside ebay's system dealing with a buyer sirectly, but I am not so naive that I would not think that issues could not arise in that situation also. Craigslist is a goid example of that and I recently dealt with a situation on that platform, but I will reafoly admit to taking the tisk and was prepared to take the loss on my own accord; luckily after nearly 4 months (I had given up) the selker managed to ship the items (a small boc) 200 miles after repeatedly claiming it would be "sent out tomorrow" week after week. My own fault in that situation.


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## Robert Troub (Nov 21, 2022)

Jesper said:


> I am not aware of a leather version, nor was I when purchased. Bassano does, or did, make leather saddles because I have used them before.
> 
> I am well versed in ebay's policies. Many that they themselves do not adhere to which is why I tend to avoid the site. I have had to return a "leather" item in the past, but I have also had ebay allow sellers to fraudulently back out of sales on auctions I have won which cost me clients. I have had a seller admit to lying to me to back out of a sale and rhe individual used ebay's message system. Ebay did nothing and said there was nothing they could do; another lie. I just rarely use that site because of the loopholes in their "policies".
> I do not believe that the seller was intentionally trying to deceive me, and I have already contacted them. This situation could happen anywhere; I am merely giving some advice on how to potentially avoid it.
> ...



You're making it much more difficult than it truly is....


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## fattyre (Nov 21, 2022)

@Jesper 

If you were seeking a leather version I’d get it.  But you didn’t even know.  It took two to create this problem, not one.   Seems like equal blame on both sides.


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## Jesper (Nov 21, 2022)

fattyre said:


> @Jesper
> 
> If you were seeking a leather version I’d get it.  But you didn’t even know.  It took two to create this problem, not one.   Seems like equal blame on both sides.



So now I have blame placed upon myself for buying something that was improperly listed. I was merely seeking a Fondriest saddle. I have previously stated that I would have no problem with the saddle only that it was misrepresented as to its construction. Sorry that folks do not understand what it is to be in business and how it affects your professional integrity. I merely am informing others of my experience(s) amd how to avoid potential conflicts. Take it as you will.


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## SirMike1983 (Nov 21, 2022)

If the saddle is original to the bike and correct in that regard, and you are going to use the saddle, and as you say in post #1, you have "no problem with the fact that it is not leather", I would be inclined to let it slide. If the bike arrived otherwise fine, and no damage from shipping, I would say you are doing pretty well overall. Shipping a bike, at least around here, is a spin of the "damaged bike" roulette wheel every time. On the flip side, if you push hard and claim a refund, you might well get a refund, but the seller may not want to sell to you in the future, feeling you had played a game of "gotcha" with him. I'd say discretion is the better part of valor here and let it slide. But that's just me.


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## CWCMAN (Nov 21, 2022)

Stuff sometimes gets unintentionally misrepresented. Are you saying that the seller was being blatantly dishonest? 
I agree with fattyre in that, you failed to ask if in-fact it was leather.

All I see here is a failure on the sellers part to know what he’s selling, and a failure on your part to ask questions. It’s a wash as far as I’m concerned.


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## Jesper (Nov 22, 2022)

Bike was a trade with a known cycling club member who I have dealt with many times; no shipping involved. The saddle seller is also a prior business acquaintance so I am on familiar ground and he does not have issues with me. I am just surprised at the lack of either knowledge of his own inventory and/or lack of verifying his own listing as being accurate before offering an item for sale. There is no concern of deception between us. Again, I am merely providing my experience and advice regarding purchasing items listed as leather and how to avoid potential issues if you do (cycling related or not; ebay or another platform). Read into it what you want., but I try to defer to a seller's knowledge and so why ask a person if something is leather if they already have stated is as being just that. I am getting a refund; seller apologized (as I knew he would) for not properly inspecting the item and basing the description on looks alone. My only fault is trusting another's description because I must be a fool to do so with an individual I have successfully had business dealings with in the past without issue.


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Nov 24, 2022)

Jesper said:


> So now I have blame placed upon myself for buying something that was improperly listed. I was merely seeking a Fondriest saddle. I have previously stated that I would have no problem with the saddle only that it was misrepresented as to its construction. Sorry that folks do not understand what it is to be in business and how it affects your professional integrity. I merely am informing others of my experience(s) amd how to avoid potential conflicts. Take it as you will.



I think people speed read posts and assume they totally understand wast the OP means. 
I understand your frustration, even the manufacturers misrepresent products. For instance the new seat material even on autos is PU leather. Sometimes I do not think they are forthcoming on this fact.
You can tell when it starts disintegrating in sunlight or someone burns the seat but otherwise you would have to look hard to tell it is not real leather.
I appreciate any warnings on things, it seams like I cannot buy enough broken, defective, wrong or misrepresented items.
No it is not your fault that the seller did not know what he was selling. But it is good to ask for some proof.


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