# Racycle Stamp



## fordsnake (Nov 15, 2017)

Does anyone have a good photo or an illustration of the stamped Racycle Matese Logo on the leather saddle?
I checked out https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/racycle-alert-original-seat.119742/ But its hard to discern, is that a sun on the left side about the word RACYCLE? What's on the right side and at the top of the Matese. It looks like the wings of the Griffin and the bottom of the crown interrupts the inner circle?  Any help will be greatly apprectiated.


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## dfa242 (Nov 15, 2017)

See #8 of this thread.
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/i-d-old-seat-12-long-mens-long-spring.116516/


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## fordsnake (Nov 15, 2017)

Thanks, with a little finessing this will work*!*


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## fordsnake (May 4, 2020)

Its been three years since I posted this message and I'm still putting the puzzle pieces together on this Racycle saddle stamp.  I initially referenced in the very 1st post above https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/racycle-alert-original-seat.119742/ and I subsequently purchased this saddle! But even with the actual saddle in my hands...there isn't much I could discerned. The logo only appears on one side of the saddle, and not all the visual information is there. Plus the word Racycle on the top of the saddle, isn't really visible either.

You may be wondering why I should care to replicate this saddle since I have an original? That's the $64,000 question I wrestle with and a personal issue with being a perfectionist... it can become your worst enemy!

Anyway, I'm not knocking having the original saddle....it's been very helpful having it in hand... in fact, there are unique nuances you may never know or seen; for instance the Maltese Cross on the saddle has a very different shape then the nameplate badge! The badge commonly seen on the head tube and in the Racycle advertisements; its triangle shapes are equal and proportionate!  Whereas, the saddle's logo at a quick glance, appears to have equal shapes, but not so. It's an optical illusion! The top triangle is much smaller than the other three triangles! Plus the top and the bottom triangles are dimensionally wider- stretched more than the vertical triangles.

Additionally, the stamped “RACYCLE CUSHION” is placed on an unfinished ribbon? This seemed strange as a design element, and the two suns on either sides seemed like an afterthought? But I can't really tell...even with the original saddle in hand, it's still a challenge to make out?  Also, the top inverted triangle, its difficult to  make out the design? Ward (*Wcben) *suggested the word "THE" was present with a scroll?  I'll accept that for now, sans the scroll until further notice. With that said, here's my creative interpretation with some minor modifications as to what it might have looked like stamped on a new saddle?

Perhaps one day a detail photo will emerge with clear visual reference...if anyone does have a revealing photo, please don't hesitate to share?


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## Craig Allen (May 5, 2020)

There was also a line above the logo that extended the length of the saddle and ended just below the rivet head of the nose piece.


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## fordsnake (May 5, 2020)

Oh wow, this is great!...what an amazing saddle! I'm confident I'm very close with my drawings...I just need to make a few adjustments with the Racycle name. I also see a line separating Miami Cycle Co. and MIDDLETOWN.O., on the lower triangle. These are easy fixes. It's just that top triangle that I'm still in the fog about? Is it possible to take a better pic of that area? I see there are two design flourishes that look like wings? Are they surrounding something...like the word "THE" or is it an Eagle with its wings spread? The Eagle was the Troxel trademark...could that be it? Also the line that runs the length of the saddle on the top is the score line for shaping the leather...this is prevalent on all early Troxel saddles.

The stamped Racycle saddle was the Troxel "Climax"


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## Craig Allen (May 5, 2020)

Unfortunately I don't have this saddle. The image I posted is a photo of a photo. I do have an original Racycle saddle that is very badly cracked and barely legible, but the outline dimensions are still plainly seen which measures 2-5/8" long by 1-13/16" high. Attached is a very rough sketch of what I am able to pick out from the photo using a 10x eye loupe. I think perhaps the curved lines may very well be the leading wing







edges of an eagle as on the Troxel saddle. The doo-dad at the top are probably the tail feathers. One thing I am fairly certain on this particular saddle and that is the word "The" is not included. However, that being said it is also possible that there were other design changes that did include "the". After all, the head badge starts off that way.


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## Craig Allen (May 5, 2020)

Incidentally, my original Racycle saddle is stamped on both sides with the logo and stamped Racycle on top.


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## Kombicol (May 5, 2020)

Seen these pics?









						1910's Racycle - Picture #6 - Dave's Vintage Bicycles
					

1910's Racycle - Picture #6



					www.nostalgic.net


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## fordsnake (May 6, 2020)

Kombicol said:


> Seen these pics?




Oh yeah,  I've tucked those photos away in my files sometime ago, as well as every Racycle saddle photo ever posted online. It's just baffling to me this design element in the top triangle has never been discussed before…it's certainly a puzzle. I thought Craig had given us an answer as to the two flourishes…perhaps the wings of.a bird or an eagle? Troxel did used an Eagle many times and different iterations of it in flight on several of their saddles. But I ran into a dead end when I attempted to replicate the flourish of the bird’s wing spread...it just doesn't work. The curvature of the  pattern is inverted to a birds wing, which leads be to believe that its something else? Plus, the redundancy of two feathered animals (the Eagle and the Griffin) in such close proximity would make for a poor design! Oh well, hopefully one day something will emerge and reveal what’s really going on there.


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## Wcben (May 11, 2020)

I’ll take a look at my images to figure out how I came up with the script for “The”.... something else to keep in mind, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if there were numerous stamps that were similar for the seats, I have seen images of at least two that were similar but different.  I know Miami had two different versions of the self oiling headbadge, haven’t been able to nail down exactly when the change was made but there were at least two ( you have to look really close!


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## Wcben (May 11, 2020)

Hey Carleton, the griffin you’re referring to... are you thinking the logo in the headbadge is a griffin?


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## fordsnake (May 11, 2020)

Yeah, I thought the creature was a griffin? But since you brought it to my attention, I can clearly see it's just an ugly bird sitting on a crown! My bad, LOL


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## fordsnake (May 11, 2020)

Attached are 4 stamps, the white dotted line is just above the actual leather’s score line. I included it as a reference to the placement of the Maltese cross. Note the top pic right side, how the score cuts off the top of the triangle. But the bottom left pic, the cross floats nicely in the space. Suggesting either the stamp or the leather blanks were increased or reduced over the years? 





The large Troxel Eagle Climax, was the preferred choice for the Racycle saddles with its large and distinctive 4 coil loop in the front. Below are four Racycle saddles with different side rails & springs. Note #3 does not have the large 4 coil loop in front and has a basic Troxel side rail.


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## Wcben (May 11, 2020)

No biggie, thought maybe I was thinking wrong all this time and you had found something I missed!  Lol.... ahh the mysteries of Miami Cycle Co.!


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## fordsnake (May 12, 2020)

Initially I thought the sun rays were equal lengths, but I now see they are uneven lengths. Plus another interpretation of the unknown design in the top triangle


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## Craig Allen (May 12, 2020)

Fordsnake, I think this latest interpretation is the answer you have been looking for. It makes sense now. From what I see on my Racycle saddle, it all fits together and matches up. I think you got it!


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## fordmike65 (May 12, 2020)

fordsnake said:


> Initially I thought the sun rays were equal lengths, but I now see they are uneven lengths. Plus another interpretation of the unknown design in the top triangle View attachment 1192667



@fordsnake  Hey Carlton, let me know if better quality pics of this saddle or different lighting might help out. Thanks so much for all the information. Mike


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## fordsnake (May 12, 2020)

Mike, whatever you can share would be greatly appreciated. I just need a photo with good detail of the stamp?


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (May 12, 2020)

Isn’t that a Phoenix?


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## fordsnake (May 12, 2020)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> Isn’t that a Phoenix?




You may be right!


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (May 12, 2020)

The Phoenix is just an overgrown bad ass Roadrunner!


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## fat tire trader (May 12, 2020)

Hi Carlton,
This is the saddle from my 1915 Racycle Rideabout. No visible stamp.
I hope you are well,
Chris


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## fordsnake (May 14, 2020)

I'm think'n maybe this direction.


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## fordsnake (May 14, 2020)

The saddle I shared in my post #14, may not be an early Racycle Troxel Climax...


but instead a Brooks?


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## fordsnake (May 25, 2020)

*I finally got a CLIMAX!*
I've been looking for this Climax frame for over 4 years and today was my lucky day!





I've have the one below, I've had it for over 3 years. It has its issues; the nose coil is so rusty and pitted, that the weight of a rider could snap it in half. Plus, the leather's cracked and aged...it could easily rip and tear. The Racycle stamp is visibly present and it'll make for a good template.


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## Kombicol (May 25, 2020)

Looks a little lumpy to sit on


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## fordsnake (May 25, 2020)

Kombicol said:


> Looks a little lumpy to sit on




Whats that old saying" one man's trash is another man's treasure." The way I see it, I'm sitting on gold!


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## New Mexico Brant (Jun 8, 2020)

Here you go:


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## fordmike65 (Jun 8, 2020)

New Mexico Brant said:


> Here you go:
> 
> View attachment 1207765
> 
> ...


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## fordsnake (Jun 8, 2020)

Oh yeah! That's what I'm talking about. Thank you, thank you Brant!


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