# ID this DELUXE score, please? should be easy for those in the know



## ericbaker (Sep 8, 2010)

Picked this up at the brimfield show yesterday, can't seem to find a match for it

Info I have:
26" 
tank says DeLuxe in cursive script
i think its a Morrow rear hub
front fender is on backwards (maybe not original?)

I keep coming back to the old moto elgins, but the tank looks to be shorter i think.
I dunno, any input?


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## DonChristie (Sep 8, 2010)

Id be more inclined to guess Colson, Columbia or Westfield. It appears fenders, neck/bars are not original. It also looks like it may of had or can use 28 inch rims. IMO. Alot of potential there. It is sometimes difficult to id old Motobikes.


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## ridingtoy (Sep 8, 2010)

The chassis and tank look nearly identical to this one: http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?11340-Blasphemy

Dave


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## Adamtinkerer (Sep 8, 2010)

The chainring and guard are definitely Colson, and it could be a 33-7 Motobike. The fork looks like a Snyder or Westfield crown fork, could be either of those too. The fenders, bars, and stem are definitely later. The Morrow hub has a date code on it, something like D2, which would be the 2nd quater of 1934. The rims could be later too, any bike this old is likely to have swapped parts! It's sweet though, digging the tank!


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## RMS37 (Sep 8, 2010)

The core of the bike (frame, fork, and tank) may be original to each other but the rest of the bike is an assemblage of newer parts. The chainguard is not the early Colson guard, The Colson guard is a different pressing with only three ribs. This guard is a later generic guard which may have been used on some lesser Colsons and turns up often on many fleet bikes from the late prewar and early postwar years

While the chain ring is a Colson piece the bike is not. Colson did not produce that chainring until 1938 by which time they were no longer producing 26” Moto-balloon frames. The Frame is also not in the pattern of the earlier Colson Moto-balloon frames which had a different fork, a straight rather than arched upper rear fender bridge and dropouts that had integral drop stand tangs.

If the fork is original to the bike it suggests the bike started out as a Snyder built Moto- balloon from about 1934-37. The test would be to examine the serial number to see if it is in a pattern typical for Snyder products and to examine the construction at the bottom bracket where it would likely have the small lug protrusions characteristic of Snyder production at that time (see the Trailblazer frame). The tank does look rather small for the aperture. Many of the Snyder Moto-balloons (and others) were sold tank-less so this tank may be a period addition to the original bike rather than strictly original to the bike. Many of the later Snyder tool box tanks are also distinctive for the smooth radiused edges on the top of the tank.


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## ericbaker (Sep 8, 2010)

Thanks guys, this is good info for sure...  
After looking closer at some of the suggestions I came up with this link   http://americanhistory.si.edu/onthemove/collection/object_309.html
which has the same tank I have I believe, at least it has the same script although you can't see it in my picture. The frame looks about right too.

So that would mean that the wheels should be 28", and the fork is not original unless they used a different one on a different model year. 

Then again the one in the link doesnt have a painted headtube, hrmm. We're making progress at least! haha


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## ericbaker (Sep 8, 2010)

dbl post


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## RMS37 (Sep 8, 2010)

Post a picture of the serial number and the top of the crank hanger showing the juncture of the hanger and the seat and down tubes if you would like an opinion on the likelihood the frame is Snyder built.

Pre-Balloon Snyder 28” frames are too narrow in the rear to fit Balloon wheels. The frames produced between 1934 and about 1936 were designed to go either way with the rear fender bridge mounted high enough to clear a 28” wheel and the stays spaced wide enough to fit balloon wheels and fenders with a spacer between the bridges and the fenders. 

Differences in the front were taken care of by using two different forks depending on the wheels fitted. Because the frame has a standard Snyder balloon fork and because the rear balloon fender appears to be in the correct location without spacers my guess it that your frame is a late Moto-Balloon frame from 36 or 37. If it is that late then I would also be inclined to believe that the tank was added to it from an earlier Snyder bike.


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## ericbaker (Sep 8, 2010)

It has the lugs on the BB shell you were talking about, I'll check for the serial number in the am


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## ericbaker (Sep 9, 2010)

The rear hub is stamped on the shell: "Eclipse Machine Division Made in Elmiyra, NY USA / K3    36 13"

The rear brake arm is either not stamped or is done so lightly that it cannot be read

Assuming this is snyder built You are saying it likely would have come with 26" wheels due to the fork? Oh and another thing about the fork... it has a slotted dropout on the drive side and a closed dropout on the non-drive. So its just a hole on the non-drive, you have to spread the fork to get the wheel in.

Still can't find the serial number.


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## RMS37 (Sep 9, 2010)

The Hub date translates to the third quarter of 1941 which is newer than the frame could possibly be. The early Snyder Quadriplate forks (there are actually four plates, two of them are together) have one slotted and one drilled end and a flat crown. Later versions were slotted on both sides and have domes on the crown. 

These plate crown forks were supplied on the early balloon tired Snyders while the 28” single tube versions used a narrower fork with a forged crown. 

The serial number should be stamped into the underside of the crank hanger but sometimes it is buried under paint or corrosion.


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## Adamtinkerer (Sep 9, 2010)

Thanks for putting your eagle eye on this Phil! I almost didn't want to say anything, but then I did anyway. Part of what makes identifying these tough is that for me, the eyes see a Colson chainring, and the brain assumes the guard went with it! I keep telling myself "assume nothing!", especially when it comes to these moto's! (At least I wasn't completely off!)


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## RMS37 (Sep 9, 2010)

Hi Adam, you are one of the people doing a great job helping others figure out what they have. I know how easy it is to fill in the blanks based on what is on a bike and miss something that would be obvious if we could clear our minds and come at it from another direction.

I think “Assume Nothing” should be a bike historian’s mantra as you say, especially when it comes to the early Moto-Balloons and earlier single tube Moto Bikes.

Two of the bikes in this category that I looked at today have me looking forward to digging out some lit for further study tonight.


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## yewhi (Sep 10, 2010)

RMS37 said:


> Hi Adam, you are one of the people doing a great job helping others figure out what they have. I know how easy it is to fill in the blanks based on what is on a bike and miss something that would be obvious if we could clear our minds and come at it from another direction.
> 
> I think “Assume Nothing” should be a bike historian’s mantra as you say, especially when it comes to the early Moto-Balloons and earlier single tube Moto Bikes.
> 
> Two of the bikes in this category that I looked at today have me looking forward to digging out some lit for further study tonight.




Phil,

Just a comment.  As a relative new comer to this forum I tend to lurk and try to absorb as much as I can.  I find your wealth of knowledge incredibly helpful.  I'm not certain how you managed to pull all of this together in your head, but I for one am thankful you did.

Cheers!

Tim


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