# I.D help needed. 1920's?



## Moshnmore (Sep 2, 2013)

I was sent here from rat rod bikes. Looking for help on this:







Sn looks like "F18407"









Head tube has 2 holes for a badge. I was able to thread a schwinn screw in.

















Thanks in advance for any help


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## hoofhearted (Sep 2, 2013)

......................


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## Moshnmore (Sep 2, 2013)

Might have a sale deal pending on is for $200 plus shipping


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## hoofhearted (Sep 2, 2013)

Lettuce Know.


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## Moshnmore (Sep 2, 2013)

Sorry for the bad pics.





















Forks have solid drops that need to be spread inorder to place the wheel


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## Moshnmore (Sep 2, 2013)

Kind of looks like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/1920s-28-Me...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## sqrly (Sep 2, 2013)

I would like to buy that?  I can send money paypal


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## Moshnmore (Sep 2, 2013)

If deal falls through with the original buyer, i have one other person in line. The second guy offered me more $, but i dont like doing that


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## sqrly (Sep 2, 2013)

Thats honerable. Good way to be.


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## Moshnmore (Sep 2, 2013)

Yeah. Im a bmx bike collector, and ive lost out on more than my fair share of bikes because of higher offers. Im aware this bike is most likely worth more than $200, but if thats the case, its my slip as the seller for not being fully educated on the item before selling it.


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## hoofhearted (Sep 2, 2013)

Well I certainly hope you sell it to someone who can appreciate this bicycle.. 
Why don't you offer it for sale in the SELL--TRADE sector of The CABE ??! .. if you do not sell it to your private buyers ...

....  patric


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## Moshnmore (Sep 2, 2013)

I just found out about CABE today


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## ozzmonaut (Sep 4, 2013)

I saw this posted on RRB as well, and that chainring is awesome. In the future, maybe use thecabe as a tool to find out values on stuff like this. That way you are somewhat educated on what you are selling and what $$ to ask. I've made the mistake several times of selling something, then the buyer turns around and triples their money reselling, while I can't afford gas to get to work and back. I'd say you at least have a $400 bike there. That chainring may even put it a little higher. It would be nice to find out the make. I'd hate to see it parted, but if you did, you'd make a lot of money. Figure the frame/fork set at $150, crank/chainring $75+, fenders $75, seat $100, seatpost $25, wheelset $75, dropstand $75+, handlebars/stem &75, pedals $25, chain $45, even that rear reflector would probably bring $25


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## stoney (Sep 5, 2013)

Hi, I have never seen that chain ring either. Would also agree the bike is probably somewhere between $400-$500. Someone with a lot more knowledge than me will probably end up putting an ID on it. Nice find.


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## Moshnmore (Sep 5, 2013)

I did sell it complete. That bike is almost 90 years old. Would be a shame to part it out at this point


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## sqrly (Sep 5, 2013)

I have the bike.  I gave the man $400 for the bike, spent $80 in gas going to get it and another $25 on food, pop and cigarettes.  I think it is worth the $505 I have in it (but my girlfriend does not).

It will not be parted and I am currently looking for information to find the proper head badge.


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## chitown (Sep 6, 2013)

sqrly said:


> I have the bike.  I gave the man $400 for the bike, spent $80 in gas going to get it and another $25 on food, pop and cigarettes.  I think it is worth the $505 I have in it (but my girlfriend does not).
> 
> It will not be parted and I am currently looking for information to find the proper head badge.




*Nice grab sqrly!* Only fitting you should end up with a sprocket as crazy as that!

Keep us posted with progress with the badge search and ID. I would look for 20's Columbia catalogs to start with.


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## ozzmonaut (Sep 6, 2013)

With a chainring design like that, I'm betting there is no drive pin on the crank. I think it may be very early hawthorne. Keep in mind that hawthorne had badges that had horizontal as well as vertical mounting hole styles, so either is a possibility. And while it is not similar in design to the early hawthorne's chainring I had, mine had the somewhat intricate design that left no room for a drive pin. Instead, the center of the crank and center of the chainring had a matching shape.


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## ozzmonaut (Sep 6, 2013)

Also the fork, fenders, and serial stamping look like my hawthorne


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## sqrly (Sep 6, 2013)

ozzmonaut said:


> My girlfriend would not see it until I had it in the basement under 6 other bikes and then I'd tell her it came from the salvage yard for $5, but then I might still have to explain the long trip. Dr. Appointment?




My plan was to "hang out" at a friends place, but the gf was gonna have me pick up her daughter from school.  That is when I made a giant step back and said I was headed on a road trip.  The gf is now talking to me again, but still not happy.  Oh well, I got a cool bike and she will forget about it in 30-40 years when the Alzheimers kicks in.


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## sqrly (Sep 6, 2013)

The frame is made by Westfield and dated 1927 or 1928, probably 1928.  The fork is usually attributed to Mead, but I believe it to be Westfield also.  I found an oddity with the rear hub shell that I have to look into a bit more.  There are a few questions about the fork braces, so I need to look into that more too.  I honestly believe this bike is completely original or any changes were made a very long time ago.  All patina and or rust is consistant throughout and cake of grease around nuts and bolts showes proper age.


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## bikewhorder (Sep 6, 2013)

sqrly said:


> My plan was to "hang out" at a friends place, but the gf was gonna have me pick up her daughter from school.  That is when I made a giant step back and said I was headed on a road trip.  The gf is now talking to me again, but still not happy.  Oh well, I got a cool bike and she will forget about it in 30-40 years when the Alzheimers kicks in.




I just called your GF and told her its really in her best interest to make sure you spend some quality time at home with her on Oct 5th.


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## sqrly (Sep 6, 2013)

bikewhorder said:


> I just called your GF and told her its really in her best interest to make sure you spend some quality time at home with her on Oct 5th.




Lol, thats the plan.  She gonna be a second bidder for me.  Nothing better than spending quality time with the gf at a home auction.


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## ozzmonaut (Sep 6, 2013)

sqrly said:


> The frame is made by Westfield and dated 1927 or 1928, probably 1928.  The fork is usually attributed to Mead, but I believe it to be Westfield also.



Some Meads were westfield so it would make sense.


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## sqrly (Sep 6, 2013)

ozzmonaut said:


> With a chainring design like that, I'm betting there is no drive pin on the crank. I think it may be very early hawthorne. Keep in mind that hawthorne had badges that had horizontal as well as vertical mounting hole styles, so either is a possibility. And while it is not similar in design to the early hawthorne's chainring I had, mine had the somewhat intricate design that left no room for a drive pin. Instead, the center of the crank and center of the chainring had a matching shape.




I would like to see a pic of your Hawthorne sprocket if possible.  I know Hawthorne contracted with a couple different manufacturers to build their bikes.  Westfield was probably one of them.  The center hole will have two flats that mate to the crank.  That is to the best of my knowledge, only Westfield mfg.  But the sprocket designs are normally exclusive to the head badge name, such as Hawthorne, in your case.


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