# One Of My Friends Scored This Off Of E Bay Today.



## Robertriley (Aug 10, 2016)

Great find with original paint.


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## bentwoody66 (Aug 10, 2016)

Nuh-uh!!!!!!!!!! Your telling stories!


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## fordmike65 (Aug 11, 2016)

$599.00 BIN?!?!?!?!?!?!? :eek::eek::eek:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/122079685246


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## Robertriley (Aug 11, 2016)

It would of been mine if I wasn't in the back yard working on the BB.  Kurt is a great kid and he will totally cherish it.


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## tech549 (Aug 11, 2016)

what a great find that is and price!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Robertriley (Aug 11, 2016)

I outbid him about 6 years ago on an Elgin Blackhawk and he has been on the search for something like this ever since.  It was meant to be and I'm so glad that he was the one to pick it up.  He is a young kid, early 20's and guy like him and Nick will be the future of this hobby.  Kurt will be a perfect representative for us when we are gone.


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## dfa242 (Aug 11, 2016)

Nice to know there are still bargains to be had out there.


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## Robertriley (Aug 11, 2016)

What the heck are you guys doing up so late?  Go to bed!


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## rollfaster (Aug 11, 2016)

Congrads to him on finding a very special bike at a great price!


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## Freqman1 (Aug 11, 2016)

Someone just sold the rare horn/light bracket for this bike here recently. I like those too but everyone I've seen for sale is missing the headlight/horn and I'm not chasing parts! Congrats on a great score. V/r Shawn


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## mike j (Aug 11, 2016)

Break out the Mariachi band, that's one 'ell of a score, congratulations!


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## tech549 (Aug 11, 2016)

I think this is what you call a home run!!!!!


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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 11, 2016)

Congrats!! Great looking bike! Ill find one someday.


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## Jarod24 (Aug 11, 2016)

Dang, good score!


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## jkent (Aug 11, 2016)

He stole that bike at that price
JKent


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## Robertriley (Aug 11, 2016)

Not anymore.  The seller cancelled the deal and said the original owner wanted it back.   I call BS!


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Aug 11, 2016)

Robertriley said:


> Not anymore.  The seller cancelled the deal and said the original owner wanted it back.   I call BS!



Cause some crybaby, probably on here, contacted the seller and told him what it was worth.... like a child... I despise people like that. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## tech549 (Aug 11, 2016)




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## tech549 (Aug 11, 2016)

Robertriley said:


> Not anymore.  The seller cancelled the deal and said the original owner wanted it back.   I call BS!



 a 93 year old wanted his bike back? right


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## Robertriley (Aug 11, 2016)

tech549 said:


> a 93 year old wanted his bike back? right



Yah right


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## fordmike65 (Aug 11, 2016)

Robertriley said:


> Not anymore.  The seller cancelled the deal and said the original owner wanted it back.   I call BS!






Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> Cause some crybaby, probably on here, contacted the seller and told him what it was worth.... like a child... I despise people like that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk




Nice going Chris. Freaking blabbermouth


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## Robertriley (Aug 11, 2016)

I know...I'd hate to think it was someone here


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Aug 11, 2016)

Robertriley said:


> I know...I'd hate to think it was someone here



Let's just say, it wouldn't be the first time....

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Aug 11, 2016)

Robertriley said:


> I know...I'd hate to think it was someone here



The thing is, if it was, they can't show it off or show up on a ride with it... .....kinda painted themselves in to a corner on that one... I'm sure it will pop up with some bs story behind how they found it yada yada...

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## fordmike65 (Aug 11, 2016)

It wasn't me! Those things are way too short.. ....but perfect for a lil guy like.....Chris! Hmmm.......


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## Robertriley (Aug 11, 2016)

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> The thing is, if it was, they can't show it off or show up on a ride with it... or.......kinda painted themselves in to a corner on that one... I'm sure it will pop up with some bs story behind how they found it yada yada...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk



Yep, it will really show the persons character.  But like you said, they will say they picked up off someone else.


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## tech549 (Aug 11, 2016)

lets send out the cabe police and track it down!!


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## cyclingday (Aug 11, 2016)

Yeah, that sucks!
Some f-n whining little f--k couldn't stand seeing someone get a smokin deal.
How about congratulations dude!
You scored!
That's a sweet bike!
Instead it's, hey dude, you sold that bike way too cheap.
Do you know how much that bike was worth?
I'll give you $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Aug 11, 2016)

fordmike65 said:


> It wasn't me! Those things are way too short.. ....but perfect for a lil guy like.....Chris! Hmmm.......



It's honestly a great cover story by posting it on here.... almost...genius....so definitely not Chris... [emoji16] 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## bentwoody66 (Aug 11, 2016)

Maybe someone else from Virginia.


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## bikewhorder (Aug 11, 2016)

The bike gods givith and the bike gods takith away...  Never ever boast about a score until the thing is firmly in your hands.


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## Schwinn499 (Aug 12, 2016)

Dont tread on me!


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## catfish (Aug 12, 2016)

Robertriley said:


> Not anymore.  The seller cancelled the deal and said the original owner wanted it back.   I call BS!




That sucks!


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## fordmike65 (Aug 12, 2016)

bikewhorder said:


> The bike gods givith and the bike gods takith away...  Never ever boast about a score until the thing is firmly in your hands.



X10

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk


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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 12, 2016)

I just sold all my bikes and I am taking up bird watching. This bike crap is lame.


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## Jarod24 (Aug 12, 2016)

bikewhorder said:


> The bike gods givith and the bike gods takith away...  Never ever boast about a score until the thing is firmly in your hands.



Definitly!


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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 12, 2016)




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## tech549 (Aug 12, 2016)

hey hows kurt doing? still want to get in the bike drama?


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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 12, 2016)

Oops I meant this bird.


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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 12, 2016)

Its a good thing I know the Ebay comissioner.


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## catfish (Aug 12, 2016)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-War...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 12, 2016)

Did your friend go all the way with the sale? Was there a paypal transaction? Was there an e-mail confirming the purchase? Report that deadbeat seller! Remember in order to buy and sell successfully on Ebay you have to know Ebay. Tons of stuff to read and knowledge is king. Dont give up.


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## Jarod24 (Aug 12, 2016)

Joe Buffardi said:


> View attachment 349072 Oops I meant this bird.




Scarlet johansson is so fine! Haha


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## Euphman06 (Aug 12, 2016)

I would love to own one of these by all means... but I gotta say.. I wish they would have raked the front end more. These bikes remind me of a pug. Seem very flat fronted.


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## scrubbinrims (Aug 12, 2016)

bentwoody66 said:


> Maybe someone else from Virginia.




Before you assemble the lynch mob, it wasn't this guy in Virginia....I'm too busy in life these days.
Curious, was the bike originally listed with a BIN or did the auction get changed to a BIN after receiving an offer to pull the auction?
BIG difference in the 2 scenarios and if the second, the "buyer" is no more deserving than anyone else IMO and is no less of a snake than the snake who actually ended up with it.
If the first scenario, that sucks and it has happened to me as well.
Chris


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## CWCMAN (Aug 12, 2016)

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER prematurely post or talk about any killer deal until you actually have it in hand.

Theres snakes in the grass just lurking.....

Chris (RR) your post may have woke that snake up. 

This is the World Wide Web, nothing is sacred after you post.


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## jkent (Aug 12, 2016)

scrubbinrims said:


> Before you assemble the lynch mob, it wasn't this guy in Virginia....I'm too busy in life these days.
> Curious, was the bike originally listed with a BIN or did the auction get changed to a BIN after receiving an offer to pull the auction?
> BIG difference in the 2 scenarios and if the second, the "buyer" is no more deserving than anyone else IMO and is no less of a snake than the snake who actually ended up with it.
> If the first scenario, that sucks and it has happened to me as well.
> Chris




Chris.
I believe the bike was actually listed as a BIN from the beginning.
But that really should not matter A DEAL IS A DEAL. And if I was the one that got screwed on this deal. the guy that stole it out of my hands better hope he keeps it under lock and key. He would not want me to see him riding it.
That is just a new kind of low.
But I also hope this guy learned a lesson. A poopty way to learn but learn non the less.
This just pisses me off reading about it and if I knew who it was. I would call them out in a second.
What ever happened to respect? What ever happened to a persons WORD? It means jack poop anymore.
And that a just the cold hard fact.
Sorry to hear you got F**Ked out of the deal but I hope whom ever did buy it F**K OFF.
Your not a man. 
JKent
p.s. I know this is just a bicycle but at the end of the day. it comes down to MORALS. And it seems some of these people have none.
JKent


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## CWCMAN (Aug 12, 2016)

Absolutely! it is your word as a man, it should be your bond like a solid hand shake to seal the deal, unfortunately some people do not subscribe to those morals, and to those I will never do business with on here or anywhere else. They make my black list....


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## kstarkusa (Aug 12, 2016)

Hey this is Kurt, the person that won that bike. I actually had another friend that found the bike for me because she knew I was looking for one as well. So I found the listing and won the bike. I contacted the owner about how to ship a bike so I gave the guy my number  and he called me. We talk for a quiet a while. He said he said his friend baught the bike from the original owner and they listed it on eBay. So after we talked about the original owner and how to ship the bike. He told me he will call me sat when his friend gets back so they can back the bike and get it ready to go mon. Yesterday I received a call from the guy saying the orignal 93 year old owner wants his bike back and his friend gave the bike back  and got his money back. Supossibly he gave the bike back three days before the bike was listed. Even though he said he had it and was going to get it ready to ship. I personally feel that it could be true, but then again he probably sold it underneath me because some collector complained. Who knows. I know Chris and a couple other collectors are trying to contact the original owner and stuff.  Hopefully something works out


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## OldSkipTooth (Aug 12, 2016)




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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 12, 2016)

I dont care what that ebay seller told you. Report his ass. Report his ass! Report his ass! 
segnalare il suo asino!
berichten seinen Arsch!
Kare no o shiri o hōkoku!


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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 12, 2016)

Its all just a mirage. There is no 93 year old man. They bought it from a tweaker on the corner of a busy boulevard. Probably bought it for a 5er and smiled all the way home. Then some asshat offered him more after he saw the post on the CABE and the rest is history. Reeeepppooorrrtt hhiiss asssssssss!!! Dont play nice guy!


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## kstarkusa (Aug 12, 2016)

How would I report him?


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## jkent (Aug 12, 2016)

I agree with Joe B.
You'll never see that bike. Or at least not in your possession.
And if it does come about that he still has the bike. He will want more money for it. Like double the original price.
So no need to play nice guy.
JKent


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## kstarkusa (Aug 12, 2016)

Alright maybe I will report,  I already have my refund luckily, well it's in PayPal pending right now. How long can I wait to report him? I know I have a couple of people trying to contact the owner of the bike.


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## tikicruiser (Aug 12, 2016)

Joe Buffardi said:


> Its a good thing I know the Ebay comissioner.



But do you know the real Ebay "commissioner"?


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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 12, 2016)

I just put a curse on the ebay seller. Tomorrow morning his coffee maker will stop working and as he is walking outside to enjoy some fresh morning air he will step on a rake and it will whack him in the face. Then he will turn around and walk onto another one until it beats some sense into him and sells Kurt the bike.


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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 12, 2016)

Yes


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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 12, 2016)

I wrote a letter we will see what happens.


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## kstarkusa (Aug 12, 2016)

Thank you joe.


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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 12, 2016)

Your welcome man! Not sure what will happen but it needs some attention for sure.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Aug 13, 2016)

kstarkusa said:


> Alright maybe I will report,  I already have my refund luckily, well it's in PayPal pending right now. How long can I wait to report him? I know I have a couple of people trying to contact the owner of the bike.



Report that fkr

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Euphman06 (Aug 14, 2016)

Ask him for the 93 year old guy's name and number so you can call him and talk directly to him. See what kind of BS the seller has to make up then.


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## oldiron73 (Aug 26, 2016)

That is a really cool looking bike.......
I like patina and detail it has.......


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## Rust_Trader (Aug 26, 2016)

bikewhorder said:


> The bike gods givith and the bike gods takith away...  Never ever boast about a score until the thing is firmly in your hands.






+1- kinda killed his deal by posting about it.


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## Joe Buffardi (Sep 1, 2016)

My resources tell me. DO NOT TRUST ANYBODY ON THE CABE.


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## bikewhorder (Sep 1, 2016)

Joe Buffardi said:


> My resources tell me. DO NOT TRUST ANYBODY ON THE CABE.




I don't even trust myself on the cabe.


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## kstarkusa (Sep 1, 2016)

I had a feeling it was someone here on the cabe that screwed me


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## Freqman1 (Sep 2, 2016)

Did someone here get it? V/r Shawn


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## cyclingday (Sep 2, 2016)

Yeah, do tell.
I don't want to have to always look over my shoulder every time I'm looking at a bike while I'm on the Cabe.


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## stoney (Sep 2, 2016)

This is in no way directed at anyone personally here----Not only with bikes. It doesn't matter what you collect and what there is a passion or profit for, someone will push the turd into your throat.


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## scrubbinrims (Sep 2, 2016)

First, my apologies to Kurt for his 20 minute listed ebay BIN deal not going through when the family of the original owner never wanted to sell and there was a disconnect between the proxy ebay seller caught in the crossfire.
I contacted the family of original owners AFTER Kurt's deal was cancelled and money returned and in no way had any influence on that outcome as is speculated in this thread.
I can point to several instances when local bike that I really wanted was purchased through eBay BIN and consumated and I did not interfere before it left and I have never done that to disrupt a transaction and cock block anyone.
Nobody bats and eyelash when members parade thier bikes after coercising unknowledgeable ebay sellers to end the auction early after bids are in and bidders committed to win,,,nothing is given on ebay, and often unfair and Ive been on the losing end of that equation more times than I can count.
So, I get to be the villain for offering the last dollar to keep this bike home in Virginia after the price was set by many CABE members offers, so be it.
I guess we all get screwed in different ways.
Chris


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## Joe Buffardi (Sep 2, 2016)

How bout them Dodgers!


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## saladshooter (Sep 2, 2016)

Sooo, did I just read that the original owners family didn't want to sell but somehow it was sold for more than BIN??

Weird


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## bentwoody66 (Sep 2, 2016)

???????????????? Meanwhile behind the innocent facade of a bicycle collector!!!!!


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## Robertriley (Sep 2, 2016)

It was won and paid for on an eBay BIN.  The next day it was told that the family wanted it back (why, just to resell it?).  That bike was the new owners bike because it was paid for and should not be resold...it was no longer the old owners bike to do so.


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## Robertriley (Sep 2, 2016)

I recently agreed to sell a high bike part to a guy and had another interested party, just minutes later, offer me $500 then $700 more for the part.  Even though I didn't have the cash in hand, that part was sold, it's a gentleman's agreement. In this situation, I think the ebay seller should be suspended and I don't buy the owner wanted it back line.  I personally think the seller got some offers that were over what he sold it for, received some coaching on how to handle the true winner of the bike and reneged on the sale.  I will admit that if I miss out on a deal, I will let the seller know that I would like to be in line if the buyer can not fulfill his end of the deal.  I never offer more or try to talk them out of selling the item to the rightful buyer.  This whole thing sickens me from all sides.  I shouldn't of posted the thread (totally my fault and was just excited for him).  I've been beating myself up about it ever since.  The  seller and buyer should also feel as bad as me or worse if they were good people.  But on a good note, there have been a few people contact Kurt offering him their bikes out of their personal collections at very, very reasonable prices.  Those are truly good people trying to do a good thing and I have the utmost respect for them and little for the others at fault here.  Kurt, I'm truly sorry if this thread lost you the bike.


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## scrubbinrims (Sep 2, 2016)

This thread did not cost Kurt the bike, it would be still sitting in the family members shed otherwise as they were not really wanting or ready to sell it.
I think the highest offer after the fact was from FL, but there were many, many others and from my understanding, Kurt was no longer involved in that process, if he was, that would have made a difference in how I approached the situation. 
The eBay seller never had possession of the bike at any time and thought he was helping out, now has his eBay reputation tarnished.
This all happened so fast and with mistakes and misunderstanding...there was no sabotage of the auction, it was only up for 20 minutes and shouldn't have been, but was.
I believe you have all have changed your mind and have also returned something at some point...as I have stated, the deal was over when I stepped up and engaged the owners to revisit selling.
Quality prewar bikes coming out VA are few and far between which is why I go after them with velocity, but within my own values and respect, and that respect isn't just for other suitors, but for the owner.
You have all heard the expression that something isn't for sale, but can be bought?  
True words, as are the rest.
Chris


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## bentwoody66 (Sep 2, 2016)

If that's the case.....most bikes should stay in Ohio where they were made. Tell me how many were made in California? They were still bought on ethical terms.
And sent there. I'm not buying it!!!!!


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## bikewhorder (Sep 2, 2016)

scrubbinrims said:


> I guess we all get screwed in different ways.
> Chris



The golden rule of bicycle collecting. "Screwith on to others as others have Screwithed on to you."
At least we can all take some solace in the fact that the bike stayed in Virginia, because that's important


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## cyclingday (Sep 2, 2016)

Unnnnfudgeinbelievable!


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## bentwoody66 (Sep 2, 2016)

bentwoody66 said:


> Maybe someone else from Virginia.



Calls em as I sees em!!!


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## Joe Buffardi (Sep 2, 2016)

You already said your peace Mr. Rims. I guess what really got my blood boiling is when you said that it wasn't you who snagged the bike. Im not sure if you value your Californian friends but I can say this. You will need a Walmart rent-a-bike and a new set of California friends after this move. 

Were you deprived growing up? Did you have a bike as a kid? Did people steal your bikes growing up as a kid? I truly dont get it man! There will always be more bikes out there to buy. We all stay up till wee hours in the morning hitting refresh, refresh, refresh and bam! A buy it now for $599. The guy that hit that buy it now button earned that bike. 

Wait! I get it now! This bike snagging thing is like a drug to you! 
But you need to read the fine print of side effects....

May cause negative comments from other members
May cause loss of friends
Two flats at once 
Ringing of the ears (other cabe members dissapointed and talking about said cabe member)
Denial
Forgetfullness
Delusional


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## bikewhorder (Sep 2, 2016)




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## CWCMAN (Sep 2, 2016)

scrubbinrims said:


> Before you assemble the lynch mob, it wasn't this guy in Virginia....I'm too busy in life these days.
> Curious, was the bike originally listed with a BIN or did the auction get changed to a BIN after receiving an offer to pull the auction?
> BIG difference in the 2 scenarios and if the second, the "buyer" is no more deserving than anyone else IMO and is no less of a snake than the snake who actually ended up with it.
> If the first scenario, that sucks and it has happened to me as well.
> Chris




WOW! Unbelievable!!


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## scrubbinrims (Sep 2, 2016)

Just like I said, I reached out to the eBay seller AFTER the eBay transaction was canceled and noted here. What I said at the time on this thread was just that with absolutely no, zero, zilch involvement with that cancelation or even knowledge of bike.
All these accusations are bullpoop, there is no conspiracy theory, I did not cause the situation or screw anybody...it was over.
Chris


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## Boris (Sep 2, 2016)

Not taking any sides, but it seems like it would be hard for the new owner to enjoy this bike, after all the hackles that have been raised on all sides of the issue.


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## Freqman1 (Sep 2, 2016)

scrubbinrims said:


> Before you assemble the lynch mob, it wasn't this guy in Virginia....I'm too busy in life these days.
> Curious, was the bike originally listed with a BIN or did the auction get changed to a BIN after receiving an offer to pull the auction?
> BIG difference in the 2 scenarios and if the second, the "buyer" is no more deserving than anyone else IMO and is no less of a snake than the snake who actually ended up with it.
> If the first scenario, that sucks and it has happened to me as well.
> Chris





This is the post I'm having trouble understanding. It wasn't me but it was me?


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## bentwoody66 (Sep 2, 2016)

The whole can of worms is about to be blown up!!!!!!!! I'm biting my lip!


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## bentwoody66 (Sep 2, 2016)

How long ago did this thread start? And now the bike has surfaced as to who bought it.


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## scrubbinrims (Sep 2, 2016)

How many times to I have to explain to you drama queens I did not snag this bike as you are using the word?
it was purchased from the family much closer to market value a couple of weeks later that amount enabled them to let it go AFTER the mixup in listing with the 3rd party eBay seller.
I received the same story as Kurt, because that's the story.
The bike is not taboo, it is not off limits, it was not dishonest to pursue when the owner wanted to keep it.
So who's the better victim...Kurt as it played out or the family of the owner if it went differently?
Exactly where is the impropriety from me?
Chris


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## bikewhorder (Sep 2, 2016)

scrubbinrims said:


> How many times to I have to explain to you drama queens I did not snag this bike as you are using the word?
> it was purchased from the family much closer to market value a couple of weeks later that amount enabled them to let it go AFTER the mixup in listing with the 3rd party eBay seller.
> I received the same story as Kurt, because that's the story.
> The bike is not taboo, it is not off limits, it was not dishonest to pursue when the owner wanted to keep it.
> ...



I understand your point of view and maybe if the bike had been right in my backyard I would have been tempted to do the same. But I think to be completely legit it might have been better to offer it to Kurt first for whatever price you had negotiated it for.


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## Freqman1 (Sep 2, 2016)

I'm not gonna pass judgement on the buyer but I can unequivocally say that the sellers are worthless POS. The bike was listed and sold. I'm not buying that the family didn't want to sell it--how the hell does that happen. I just ride down the street, see a bike in a shed, snap a pic and throw it up on Ebay? I know some will say that the seller was right to not follow through because maybe they didn't know what they had. In the digital age the only excuse for not doing your research is laziness or stupidity. This whole thing just smells and I would have definitely reported them to Ebay and left negative feedback. The whole thing just stinks. Shawn


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## bentwoody66 (Sep 2, 2016)

O.k. in 3..2..1.. Chris might I jog your memory as to a certain 36 girls Safety that you sent a couple of p.m.'s to me about why I didn't let you know about it and what had you done to me to not let you know about a safety in "your" backyard. First off it wasn't my deal in the first place and second that's kinda shady to be on my ass about why I didn't let you know about it. I turned you on to bikes in your neighborhood before and I've even bought from you. Now I know that you have been in the center of these shady deals before so why would we expect differently at this time in the "game". You hadn't done anything to me nor me to you up to that point. I have other cabe members to support my story. So leave it be, take your medicine and go.


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 3, 2016)

bentwoody66 said:


> O.k. in 3..2..1.. Chris might I jog your memory as to a certain 36 girls Safety that you sent a couple of p.m.'s to me about why I didn't let you know about it and what had you done to me to not let you know about a safety in "your" backyard. First off it wasn't my deal in the first place and second that's kinda shady to be on my ass about why I didn't let you know about it. I turned you on to bikes in your neighborhood before and I've even bought from you. Now I know that you have been in the center of these shady deals before so why would we expect differently at this time in the "game". You hadn't done anything to me nor me to you up to that point. I have other cabe members to support my story. So leave it be, take your medicine and go.



just to clarify, so no one mis-understands. I was contacted by the owner of said girls Safety and asked if I could find a good home for it. I found it the best possible home, and both parties were happy. I did share a photo of the bike with a couple people, though I never gave the bike's location to any but the very few people whom I deemed worthy of it.
in that case, the right thing happened, but only because I never divulged anything about the bike, and almost everyone went home happy.

maybe we need a sticky.
People! never brag about any bike you've found or bought until it is in your livingroom, there are some shady people here!


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## tech549 (Sep 3, 2016)

yes how do you enjoy this bike with all this nonsense hanging over it?you going to hide it in your bedroom,when the ownership of a bike is worth more then the peoples friendships you have made in this hobby its time to really look in the mirror !


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## mike j (Sep 3, 2016)

" The lady doth protest too much, methinks ".  Hamlet 1599-1600 William  Shakespeare. No Mariachi band today.


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## Dale Alan (Sep 3, 2016)

Sometimes folks enjoy depriving others just as much if not more as collecting the bikes . I met a guy once that was buying every bike at an auction even though many were not in his realm of interest .I overheard him say...I don't want them,but I rather see them  rot into the ground than to see those a$$holes get em. Pretty sad really.


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## scrubbinrims (Sep 3, 2016)

tech549 said:


> yes how do you enjoy this bike with all this nonsense hanging over it?you going to hide it in your bedroom,when the ownership of a bike is worth more then the peoples friendships you have made in this hobby its time to really look in the mirror !



Why would I hide the bike in my bedroom?
My goal is to have a public museum someday, it'll be there with the provenance of spending its life here.
I have nothing to hide as the bicycle was bought legitimately and all things considered, was a better for the family of the original owners...or maybe it was better to have the family in disagreement for having to sell it for 599 shipped?
I think we can all agree that the family would have been jipped then, no?
If I caused the ebay BIN to fall through, that's one thing,, that's shady, that's just plain wrong, but I didn't not have I ever and there are folks commenting on this thread who end auctions early and cheat the system and I don't do that either.
I earned the bike and went well beyond a couple of keyboard strokes to get it... I stayed on the radar in sincerity, offer matched a lot of money (or it was going somewhere else, believe me) took off a day from work and drove nearly 6 hours for it.
Chris


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## Dale Alan (Sep 3, 2016)

I remember an auction story about a 1936 Huffman super,that thread got real ugly and had to be locked.


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## tech549 (Sep 3, 2016)

well good luck chris!


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## scrubbinrims (Sep 3, 2016)

bentwoody66 said:


> O.k. in 3..2..1.. Chris might I jog your memory as to a certain 36 girls Safety that you sent a couple of p.m.'s to me about why I didn't let you know about it and what had you done to me to not let you know about a safety in "your" backyard. First off it wasn't my deal in the first place and second that's kinda shady to be on my ass about why I didn't let you know about it. I turned you on to bikes in your neighborhood before and I've even bought from you. Now I know that you have been in the center of these shady deals before so why would we expect differently at this time in the "game". You hadn't done anything to me nor me to you up to that point. I have other cabe members to support my story. So leave it be, take your medicine and go.




I'm glad you mentioned this Kenny and also glad the self proclaimed resident Huffman expert weighed in to help make my point.

I thought we were friends and although it has been a while since I sold you a bicycle at a fair price and you pointed me to a WV auction that enabled me to win my Hawthorne Comet (which I am pretty sure I paid you a finder's fee in appreciation), I was upset in finding out you knew about this special bike in my backyard for sale and didn't let me know about it.  So what...and that makes me what exactly?

Back to that ladies safety streamline which was found relatively close to me and brought to 37fleetwood's attention to bring context and find a new home.  That bike was purposefully left off my radar...a serious collector that was local and favored deluxe balloon tire bicycles and in the minority in that I covet girls bicycles and do not discard, dismember, or ignore them.  This bicycle sold for 4k, which was fair and did go to a great home, however, let's be honest in that the bike was handed over to another southern Californian under the table.  The advisor did not include an open market and ended up leaving at least 1,000.00 on the table and could have avoiding shipping if I had been been involved.  But that's the point of under the table deals, to exclude other interested parties.  37fleetwood seems to take pride in brokering a private deal to a someone he feels deserves it...like being one of his best friends wasn't a factor, like making the deal without any real competition wasn't a factor.  And guess who is the biggest loser besides myself?  That's right, the young man who found it who trusted 37fleetwood that he would be working in his best interests.

Now on to you bentwoody66...
So how long was it exactly, days, weeks before who flew in like a buzzard to buy the flatside/shroud tank CWC bike from Steve Knier's widow?
I know it wasn't very long after he passed and how much did you pay for that bike before it had the opportunity to make its way again to another NC show and probably new ownership with one of Steve's friends, myself included?
Maybe you stepped up, maybe you didn't, but you definitely one upped me there as I've made a lot deals, but never with a widow while the earth was still disturbed.
Maybe I should get my facts straight before I start the slandering another member and maybe so should you.
Chris


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## Joe Buffardi (Sep 3, 2016)




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## scrubbinrims (Sep 3, 2016)

Joe Buffardi said:


> View attachment 356338




You're up next Joe...

On the topic of trust, let's revist the Elgin Gull that you have for sale here at the CABE for 15,000.00 here:
http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1935-elgin-gull.61151/

Here's how you posted you acquired the bike:
_"Long story short, I simply asked my good old friend if he had a pre-war or post war rider that was complete. We dug the Gull out of his shed. I have always known about the Gull since I was about 17- 18 years old and completely forgot about it. When we pulled it out of the shed my balls went into my stomach. I asked him how much? He said $ I said ok no problem. I paid the man and went back and bought more bikes and parts. I guess to be honest It took me years to finally acquire this gem. And to be honest, The guy who said, that I couldn't possibly have that much money into it is wrong! Time is money. If it took me years to finally be able to have this bike and bring it out to the public I would say that is priceless. "_
*Joe Buffardi 
August 13, 2014
*
Later, you mentioned how much you paid for the Elgin Gull:
_"I can honestly admit that I paid $300 for my Elgin Gull. I can also admit that I thought it was just another Westfeld aluminum bike made in the days of new alloy innovation and I respected that. I never knew it was rare and sought after. I have never offered a thousand dollars for a bike in a barn. I usually walk away with it for $500 at the most. If its a car thats a whole different story. Lol!!"
*Joe Buffardi
February 24, 2016*_

So if this is how you treat your friends that trust you, buying a bike for 300.00 then flipping it for 15K?

"My resources tell me.  DO NOT TRUST ANYBODY ON THE CABE"
*Joe Buffardi
September 1, 2016
*
You're absolutely right Joe...anybody else want to through some more stones in our glass house???
Chris


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## scrubbinrims (Sep 3, 2016)

Moderators, please do not delete or edit this thread, I have the right to face my accusers.
Chris


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## bikewhorder (Sep 3, 2016)

Am I alone in thinking this is one of the best threads ever?


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## mike j (Sep 3, 2016)

It's getting there, though it is still only six pages, so far.


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## Joe Buffardi (Sep 3, 2016)

Isnt she a beaut!


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## Euphman06 (Sep 3, 2016)

I guess I'm in the minority.... and maybe I'm missing something and I really don't want to be involved in this since it's not my business. BUT, I'm not seeing how Chris is terribly at fault.  It looks like the deal fell through because multiple people were sending higher offers to the seller (I'm sure some of us on here as well). Chris was out of the running until it became available again because the seller got greedy and ran for the money. Of course we all believe the 90 some year old really didn't want his bike back, right? If you had the money, wouldn't you pursue an awesome bike if available? 

Of course the seller is most at fault here. Not many guys are a "man of their word" anymore it seems. Money always rules in the end. If Chris didn't end up with the bike someone else would have anyway and the lynch mob would have been directed elsewhere. Why aren't we mad at all the people who sent in better offers? That's the real reason why the deal fell through isn't it? I guess because we can't name those people, and will never know. Yes, the bike belonged to the guy who bought it... until the money was returned. Terrible seller, plain and simple.


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## Euphman06 (Sep 3, 2016)

Yes it's a beaut! I'll give you $100 plus shipping for it


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## cyclingday (Sep 3, 2016)

Oh, man!
It's getting deep around here.
Just think about why no one called you when probably one of the finest examples of a ladies 1936 Safety Streamline was found practically in your back yard.
I could go on and explain it to you in detail, but we've already been over that.
Kurt just found out what it's like to have his dick slammed in the door.


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## Joe Buffardi (Sep 3, 2016)

The Gull deal was part of a bike parts collection. I payed $5000 for the entire lot which had NOS schwinn parts in boxes, hard to find schwinn dealership advertisements etc. He valued all complete bikes at $300 since I was buying all of his bike inventory. He knew I was going to re-sell this stuff (he bought and sold as swap meets for 50+ years,) and he also knew that he wasnt going to do anything with the bike stuff anymore, he's too old, hes already given his kids and grandkids bikes and if he were to go first his wife made it clear this stuff was headed for a dumpster.  We have bought and sold with each other for years and we have both made money off each other. He didnt care what I sold anything for. He was truly done with this stuff.

Oh and this was a personal transaction based on knowing eachother for years- not a Ebay cluster deal. No one was coerced, nothing about it was shady.


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## Rust_Trader (Sep 3, 2016)

Chris,

Screenshot your initial convo with the seller. Best way to prove people wrong, I'm sure somewhere in those messages the seller mention the multiple offers. Maybe go the extra mile and get a list of the people who offered to buy it for more.


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## Boris (Sep 3, 2016)

Wow, a whole new level and non-fun side of bicycle collecting (for me at least). Important thread, thanks for not sweeping it under the rug moderators.


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 3, 2016)

scrubbinrims said:


> Back to that ladies safety streamline which was found relatively close to me and brought to 37fleetwood's attention to bring context and find a new home.  That bike was purposefully left off my radar...a serious collector that was local and favored deluxe balloon tire bicycles and in the minority in that I covet girls bicycles and do not discard, dismember, or ignore them.  This bicycle sold for 4k, which was fair and did go to a great home, however, let's be honest in that the bike was handed over to another southern Californian under the table.  The advisor did not include an open market and ended up leaving at least 1,000.00 on the table and could have avoiding shipping if I had been been involved.  But that's the point of under the table deals, to exclude other interested parties.  37fleetwood seems to take pride in brokering a private deal to a someone he feels deserves it...like being one of his best friends wasn't a factor, like making the deal without any real competition wasn't a factor.  And guess who is the biggest loser besides myself?  That's right, the young man who found it who trusted 37fleetwood that he would be working in his best interests.



again, for clarity's sake, I was contacted by the bike's owner, not someone who found it. I was specifically asked to find it a good home by the owner who didn't want to just throw it to the wolves. the guy didn't want the highest price, he wanted it in the best hands. I picked 3 or 4 names of people I knew and sent them the guy's phone number, and that was the extent of my involvement, price was only set by me in the sense that the first thing the owner asked me was what I thought it was worth. he had paid $800 and was thrilled with what he got out of it, so, if I had played any favoritism, he'd likely have got much less.

but enough of that, there was nothing untoward in that deal, lets talk about the first time most of us met you. remember the Rollfast that you snatched in much the same way from the guy who was merely asking if a bike he found local was a good deal? how you took the GPS data from the photo to run over and get the bike before he had a chance to go back? remember the girls Shelby that half a dozen people were in line on that you ran over and pressured the owner to sell to you "because it was in YOUR back yard" as if somehow that suddenly matters.

I will be at the Cyclone Coaster Sears ride tomorrow accepting apologies from people who said I was just being a jerk, and pressuring me to "be nice" when you came out. please no pushing or shoving, I'll be sure to accept all comers apologies in a timely and efficient manner.


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## scrubbinrims (Sep 3, 2016)

Rust_Trader said:


> Chris,
> 
> Screenshot your initial convo with the seller. Best way to prove people wrong, I'm sure somewhere in those messages the seller mention the multiple offers. Maybe go the extra mile and get a list of the people who offered to buy it for more.




As you can see my initial contact was an inquiry after the refund the previous day (documented earlier in the thread).
There was no coercion by me to reverse the fate of the transaction.  Discussions were on the phone about the status with the owning family and the other members pursuing the bike.  The grandfather was never involved, the eBay seller an intermediate and never possessed the bike.  There were multiple family members in the mix and not all with consent until the end...not the actions of a single greedy seller/owner, but I didn't have dinner with them, just built a relationship to buy the bike and it was a difficult, competitive process.
Chris


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## scrubbinrims (Sep 3, 2016)

37fleetwood said:


> again, for clarity's sake, I was contacted by the bike's owner, not someone who found it. I was specifically asked to find it a good home by the owner who didn't want to just throw it to the wolves. the guy didn't want the highest price, he wanted it in the best hands. I picked 3 or 4 names of people I knew and sent them the guy's phone number, and that was the extent of my involvement, price was only set by me in the sense that the first thing the owner asked me was what I thought it was worth. he had paid $800 and was thrilled with what he got out of it, so, if I had played any favoritism, he'd likely have got much less.
> *That is not a fact, there was favoritism and who are you to take the moral high ground?  Way it goes I guess, win some lose some and was a good outcome, but could have been even better financially for the seller.  You and I have had our differences, so it was expected.*
> 
> but enough of that, there was nothing untoward in that deal, lets talk about the first time most of us met you. remember the Rollfast that you snatched in much the same way from the guy who was merely asking if a bike he found local was a good deal? how you took the GPS data from the photo to run over and get the bike before he had a chance to go back? remember the girls Shelby that half a dozen people were in line on that you ran over and pressured the owner to sell to you "because it was in YOUR back yard" as if somehow that suddenly matters.
> ...



*You're a jerk and people know it.
Don't know why one must expand the above quote to read my inserted response?
Chris*


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## bentwoody66 (Sep 3, 2016)

scrubbinrims said:


> I'm glad you mentioned this Kenny and also glad the self proclaimed resident Huffman expert weighed in to help make my point.
> 
> I thought we were friends and although it has been a while since I sold you a bicycle at a fair price and you pointed me to a WV auction that enabled me to win my Hawthorne Comet (which I am pretty sure I paid you a finder's fee in appreciation), I was upset in finding out you knew about this special bike in my backyard for sale and didn't let me know about it.  So what...and that makes me what exactly?
> 
> ...



So, you think I swooped in on an unknowing widow eh Chris. Let me remind you buddy ol pal. Melanie contacted ME. I didn't go chasing that bike. She saw my fe quest if you ever sell put me first in line. And what about you, if Steve was such a good friend to you why did you have to ask me for contact info? I purposely didn't divulge that info because it's not my place. O.k. next is the Comet in W.V. I hooked you up with that because it was near you and I knew it was your interest. Never got a dime in a finders fee by the way. Didn't expect one, I scratch your back you scratch mine. Next up is the Ridewell, let's talk about how parts were changed after I agreed to buy it and then I said I didn't want it. Then you agreed to put the parts that were originally on THE bike as I saw it back on. Chris I helped you when you were new to this cuz that's what I do, help each other out. I will give people parts if they need them and I dont. Good luck with your museum, I'm glad you are gathering all the bikes you can and it will be a great stop for all in Richmond to see. Oh.... and speaking of those stones.......


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## bentwoody66 (Sep 3, 2016)

Chris stop trying to point out opinions on others and admit you have been shady at times.


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## mickeyc (Sep 3, 2016)

And so it goes.....WHEW!!


Mike


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## tech549 (Sep 3, 2016)

the only thing that I believe that is important here is that a young cabe member got screwed,and as men we should make it right.he is a fellow member.should have his back,no matter what!!!as to all the other matters this is what I have to say  ----  what you do speaks so loud I do not hear what you say!!!!


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## scrubbinrims (Sep 3, 2016)

tech549 said:


> the only thing that I believe that is important here is that a young cabe member got screwed,and as men we should make it right.he is a fellow member.should have his back,no matter what!!!as to all the other matters this is what I have to say  ----  what you do speaks so loud I do not hear what you say!!!!



If Kurt buys the same model you offered him at a discount, I'll put in $100 for the shipping.
I've too much investment in this bike all the way around and even spent a lot on the missing parts.
Chris


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## Lipstick-n-Wrenches (Sep 3, 2016)

This whole thing is just sad. I'm not accusing anybody of anything but this is what I do know....

I am the one that spotted this bike on Ebay just a few seconds after it was posted by the seller. I could have easily bought this bike myself but I recalled that Kurt (a young collector) had been searching for a bike like this Hawthorne...for I had seen posts (comments) that Kurt had posted at varies times about wanting a bike like this. So I chose to contact him…very quickly because I knew this bike wouldn't last long at that price...through a message and gave him the item number….which he then went to Ebay, looked the bike up and immediately hit the buy it now button and BOUGHT it from the seller that had it listed for the price the seller wanted at that time (which I imagine was much more than what that seller paid for that bike from the original owner). Kurt then sent me a message back telling me he had just won the Hawthorne. I was happy for him and I was happy to be able to help out a fellow bike collector by passing a great bike on to them. He bought the bike with the BUY IT NOW and that should have been a done deal. Kurt didn't contact the seller to negotiate a price Higher or Lower...he bought the bike for the exact price it was listed for in the Ebay auction. Unfortunately, Kurt contacted me shortly after he bought it and told me he wasn't getting the bike. He said the original owner, or something like that, wanted the bike back. I couldn't believe it and *"I"* felt bad because I had been the one to turn him on to this bike. I was truly worried about his money and I was just hoping he would get the money back that he had ALREADY paid. Deep down I felt that something must have transpired over night between the seller and an outside source, but I was just assuming at that time. I cannot tell you how much it bothered me that I had found this bike and shared it with a fellow collector…then the deal turned sour. I apologized to Kurt for the deal not going through. I try not to look at bicycle collecting in a negative way because truly there should be no negatives about collecting…but when things like this happen…it's hard not to do so. It was a GREAT bike and it was a GREAT deal (at the seller's decided BUY IT NOW PRICE) and for a short amount of time….it belonged to Kurt…for he legitimately bought it, exchanged money and anxiously awaited its arrival. It's just too bad the arrival day, of this Hawthorne, never came for Kurt. Sorry Kurt that it ended like this. Now it's hard not to look at this bike and think…it's not so great anymore.....
At this point, it becomes he said she said... And none of us will ever truly know what transpired on the other ends of this deal outside of Ebay. But what I do know and this is very TRUE...the bike was listed publicly on Ebay for a buy it now price that the seller determined...and Kurt was able to hit the BUY IT NOW button in enough time to fairly buy it.... He then exchanged his money...and put his money into the seller's account. So the bike should have arrived at his door at some point but that never happened. But now this whole situation, unfortunately, has become part of this particular bikes history.


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## cyclingday (Sep 3, 2016)

Lipstick-N-Wrenches is what this hobby is all about for me.
Having fun playing with classic and antique bicycles, and watching other people having fun playing with classic and antique bicycles.
The joy of seeing a new guy score a great bike for a smokin deal is priceless.
And, to be the one who makes the call that says, hey aren't you looking for one of these? You gotta check this one out!
That is the gold standard right there.


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