# Custom Suhr Bicycle ???



## suhrsc (Jul 24, 2008)

I posted this over on the "Flying Ace" thread sort of as a joke. 
I am actually considering picking up some metal and trying to build this. 
the frame is obviously modified from a Flying ace but i dont think its worth starting with one and modifying it. Plus I wouldnt want to butcher a nice old frame. 

I realize the cranks are a bit low and i may need to find some shorter ones to use or shorten some that i already have.

My thinking is to use 3/4" tubing for the stays and 1" or 1.25" for the main front triangle
the fork would be standard legs shortened to get the tire tight against the bottom of the headtube then make new support rods from 3/8"

i tried to draw a model of myself sitting on the bike and the fitment looks like it would be ride-able without alot of discomfort

the main idea is to have a low slung sleek looking bike with nice lines...not a ratty broken looking thing.

I would most likely just try to make my own tank from aluminum rather then modify an old one that could be used on a restoration still.

So there she is....any thoughts, opinions, ideas, citisim, insults, etc.
if this shouldnt be posted here, I'm sorry and i will delete it. I know its not really "old" but hopefully it fits in and technically "*could have*" been built in the 30's-40's


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## SirMike1983 (Jul 24, 2008)

You know, I think a front "mini short" fender would be a good addition- something like what you did in back, but a short little thing in front too. 

The only other comment I have is to watch the leg travel on the frame- with the seat that low and that close to the top position of the pedals it could be uncomfortable to ride and not leave enough space to get your legs all the way to the top position comfortably (or powerfully). The model looks like its legs will be pretty cramped in at the top pedal position. I suppose you could raise the saddle a bit, but I don't know how much that would detract from the overall look of the bicycle- worth considering at least.

Other than that I really like the design- looks like those old super streamliner motorcycles from the 30s and 40s.


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## suhrsc (Jul 24, 2008)

THANKS MIKE
  good thinking on the upper stroke of the pedal
 Ill have to figure that out

might need to build a rig to sit on and see how it feels before i build the frame

thanks
 Zach


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## SirMike1983 (Jul 24, 2008)

Nice website by the way- excellent roadster and racing cars you have there.


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## imfastareyou (Jul 24, 2008)

Zach-
I like it.  nice for cruising around car shows.  posted it up on the HAMB?  boys over there would dig it.

edit:
but yeah, bring the bb up a bit.  

for dropouts, crown, etc...

http://www.henryjames.com/

Chris


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## ColsonTwinbar (Jul 24, 2008)

I was thinking on making something like that but using 29 inch wheels so you could get the look but it would be easier to pedal with such a low seat.


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## SirMike1983 (Jul 24, 2008)

Maybe you've thought of this or it's not possible but-

have you considered a motorized version as well- like using Whizzer motor and parts?  It might be cool to have a couple versions- regular bicycle and then a "racing" Whizzer in the 1930s super streamline style.


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## suhrsc (Jul 25, 2008)

thanks everyone
  i am planning to just weld the joints with a TIG rather then braze, but those henry james lugs look nice!

  the motorized version was the first idea
  i wanted to just build a board track motorcycle
i was looking at teen's-20's indian single cylinder and twin motors
the problem is....they're a bit out of my budget

where do you buy whizzer parts at?
i guess all i would need would be the motor and belt drive
the tank and throttle would have to be homemade to look correct

also....does anyone know off hand the inside diameter of the headtube so the bearing cups press in?
   i am hoping to buy some tubing tonight and i forgot to pull a headset out yesterday to measure

the bottom bracket too actually if you know that
   i dont mind having to machine out the tubing a bit for it to fit, just dont want to get too big to begin with as steel is pretty expensive now days

i'm looking at going with 1" for the main front triangle then 1/2" or possibly 5/8" for the stays
if i go with half i may ovalize it if i can after i put the arc in it
  then 3/16" plate for the dropouts 

thanks
 Zach


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## suhrsc (Jul 25, 2008)

fooled with this design a bit more...raised the BB slightly and went down to a 6" crank and 7"diameter sprocket 22tooth skip i think?


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## rjs5700 (Jul 25, 2008)

Hi Zach,
If you are planning on using a Whizzer motor or any other motor you might want to get the motor first and build around it. The Whizzer can be a tight fit in some frames. You will also want to consider belt clearance and crank length. If the crank is too short it might be hard to pedal start. Original Whizzer motors and parts can be a little pricey. Ebay is a good source for them. The new Whizzer motors used to come in kit form with everything you need for installation. I bought three kits about five years ago at around $750 per kit. I don't know if the kits are still available though. Check the internet, there might be other bike motors out there that would be more suitable for your project.
Good luck and post pics when it's done.
John


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## Aeropsycho (Jul 25, 2008)

*Yep...*

Like I said in the other post I'm not worthy...

I have the same colson frame that had a motor in it... I think the problem with the whizzer motors is the clearance under the second top tube...as long as it is curved your ok the kits are still available  online

As far as riding and leg room this bike is a cruiser not a performance bike... that is why I suggested a short crank small sprocket and gearing just look at the Dyno bikes and Felt Racing cruiser bikes your not gonna keep the look with a tall seat besides if your making it for you or others  some people fit and some people don't.

I think your design ideas are great!!!

With your metal skills you should be making a lot of money... 

J...


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## suhrsc (Jul 25, 2008)

me making money....haha 
  didnt know we had comedians on here!  

i just bought the tubing
 $41....not too bad
  the supply place gives me a deal cause i buy so much
i got 1-3/8 .120 wall chromolly for the headtube
1" .063 DOM for the front triangle
and 1/2" .063 for the rear triangle
 then 3/16 plate for the dropouts

i hope everything works out machining wise to press the bearing cups in
   i jsut tried to take apart my trusport to steal some parts, but unfortunately...and luckliy...while trying to brake the stem free from the headtube, all the spokes broke out of the wheel!
   im glad that didnt happen at 30MPH this week when i was riding it
 i knew i was taking my chances with thin rusty spokes....but phew!, didnt know it was that close to disaster

hopefully tomorrow i can dig out my jig and get to work
  maybe be riding this thing by sunday!

thanks
 Zach


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## 37fleetwood (Jul 25, 2008)

J-me you're hanging around this thread a lot lately 
Zach looks great! I have the original in a much larger scan if you like.




I would be curious what you would do with one of these






I looked at your site and must say you work fast the Racing Ace is already incorporated on the page!
Scott


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## suhrsc (Jul 27, 2008)

thanks 37
   those bikes are pretty cool!
if i get time tomorrow at work i'll fool with them

havent got a start on my new frame yet...tied up yesterday
 hopefully i'll get something done today

we'll see!
  Zach


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## chuckspeed (Jul 27, 2008)

suhrsc said:


> thanks 37
> those bikes are pretty cool!
> if i get time tomorrow at work i'll fool with them
> 
> ...




Zach!!!

Yeah - I'm still alive; long story. Was in Hburg the other day; wanted 2 stop by,but work interfered. Am in process of moving 2 Key West an am trading the cars for bikes; nice 2 see U keep true to your cycling past. Just bought an early 50's rollfast which will be freshened B4 joining the KW stable. 

Will be in need of fixed gear, teens/20's racer B4 too long; know anyone who can do that?


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## chuckspeed (Jul 27, 2008)

Zach -

Can't see pix on a blackberry, but if you put a short bend near the back of the top tube, lay the seat tube down a bit and use an offset seat stem, you can get the seat damn near level with the top tube and still have decent leg length whilst mimicking a board track racer from the 20's. 

As for the chainring - keep it as big as you're comfy with; cheat with a stingray crank and a large rear sprocket. Velodrome racers had big chainrings; you'll want that design feature.


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## suhrsc (Jul 28, 2008)

hi chuck!
   funny to see you on here!

im not too sure on who could build a racing bike for you? 
  i could probably do it but i really know nothing about them so you'd be better somewhere else
thanks for the input!

heres all i got done this weekend
  i havent even looked at this jig in atleast 3 years so it took a bit to figure it all out again
   had to make new cones to fit the 1" headset and offset brackets for the rear axle location to compensate for the lower BB
   once that was all figured out i got the angles set where i wanted and started machining the BB and getting the seat tube welded on

then i made an attempt at bending the top tube
 its 1" .063 DOM tubing and it bend pretty easily by hand between a Y shaped tree!  
  worked good to get a gentle changing radius bend so i guess im going to go with it
  i think i'll be able to get the seat down pretty low like this?
we'll see!


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## suhrsc (Jul 28, 2008)

heres what i came up with , 37

seems pretty cool!
  maybe i'll build it next!


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## suhrsc (Jul 28, 2008)

*monday 7-28 update*

well, the front half is done! 
need to trim and paint my headtube badge but it came out pretty good too!

i had a bit of trouble getting the nice bends in the tubes, they're not perfect but they'll do for prototype #1

hopefully i'll get the backend done tomorrow

also another rendering for 37fleetwood

Zach


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## chuckspeed (Jul 28, 2008)

Zach - 

I think you could build me a bike - the '37 would be just fine, except I wanna ride the snot out of it.  This means the BB would have to be pushed forward and the rear stays stretched a bit so's to get 30+ inches from the top of the seat to the bottom pedal - extended.  I'll PM you with what I want.


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## SirMike1983 (Jul 28, 2008)

I like the Style Ace, but as a matter of personal opinion (take it for what it's worth) the very "pointy" rear edge is a bit odd looking. Depending on how sharp or hard it is, you it may pose a danger in a bike-to-bike crash or if you are storing it in close quarters with other bikes or cars (watch the paint). What if you revised that trailing point into a shape that mirrors the "bowed in" shape of the rear fender stay. Perhaps keep the frame tail long but echo the "rounded in" thing the rear fender strut does with the frame's back edge.

Eh- my two cents.


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## suhrsc (Jul 29, 2008)

chuck,
  I pm'd you back
30" seems like alot....might look funny?
maybe a quick release post of some sort to keep it looking good when not riding it?


mike,
   i was thinking the point might be a problem....but i was trying to keep the same lines as the one 37fleetwood posted... looking like a custom car with fender skirts i guess?
    i think maybe making that rear end just a tad longer and then adding a cross bar behind the tire might be the best option, eliminating the sharp point and creating a bit of a "bumper" made from maybe 1/2"?
   we'll see how things go with the current one...maybe ill give it a try and see how it may come out

I'm gona have to assemble this current bike with bent up rusty parts! 
  It's all I've got right now


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## imfastareyou (Jul 29, 2008)

Zach-
headbadge looks great.  ya know there's big $$ in handmade bicycles!  

almost like hotrods....  

did you tig the joints?  

I finally repaired my cracked B10E (34 Schwinn) this weekend.. this post has me wanting to go to metal express this weekend!

must work on car.  resist temptation to build bike!

going to look great though, post a step by step here and on the HAMB when you're done.

Chris


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## suhrsc (Jul 29, 2008)

thanks chris
  yes, all the joints are TIG welded
   i may braze over them later and smooth out to look old
but i wanted the extra strength

should i post a how-to on bending tubing in a tree? 

go work on your car!

is this better?


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## 37fleetwood (Jul 29, 2008)

hi,
on the original the frame goes back to the full fender so there isn't any problem. I was thinking full fendered kinda lead sled style. these bikes were supposedly modelled after the 1937 Buick that year. I want one of those frame jigs!! where can I get one?
Scott


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## SirMike1983 (Jul 29, 2008)

suhrsc said:


> thanks chris
> yes, all the joints are TIG welded
> i may braze over them later and smooth out to look old
> but i wanted the extra strength
> ...






I like that one the best so far- really nice.


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## suhrsc (Jul 29, 2008)

scott,
  this is a home made frame jig

its pretty simple though
you could make it from the picture im sure

everything sets 3" CL off the face

its kind of a paint though because you can't weld all around the back

might be best to use this for tacking then an upright jig for final welding/brazing?

i do like the LONG back end...but the stubbier one came out pretty cool too with the bobbed fender
the thing to look out for is getting it too heavy i think
i mean...its a bicycle so it has to stay simple and light looking, in my opinion

if this current bike works out well im thinking i'll try something along the lines of that one
  its all just made by hand/eye so it won't be 100% exactly like the drawing

ok back to work!
  Zach


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## suhrsc (Jul 30, 2008)

trying to get something more along the lines of the flying ace....not sure on colors yet so its just raw aluminum
i may not use it though, im thinking maybe a race car would be better?


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## chuckspeed (Jul 30, 2008)

Three comments: 

1) Split the difference between long and short when laying out the rear stays, and allow them to 'droop' a bit. 
2) nameplate should have a plane; an 'ace' is a pilot - not a rider or a driver. 
3) although godawful difficult (2X as long to lay out and weld up as the frame, an Evinrude front fork design would be the bee's knees on that configuration.  Do it outta chromoly, and you'd avoid the issues Evindrude did in their alloy forks.


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## yeshoney (Jul 30, 2008)

*Great ideas, Great Thread*

For my 2 cents I would like to see this fork used.  The "Flying" theme is perfect.  In case you do not recognize it, it is an Evans Action Springer supposedly designed by Harley Earl of GM design fame.  You think it would fit the theme well?  Tough to reproduce however.  The spring ection is generated from a hard rubber block that sort of stretches when you hit a bump.  The visible springs are for show only.


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## suhrsc (Jul 31, 2008)

thanks guys
   i decided last night that it should have a darn plane on it!!!! so heres my newest idea with a gee bee on it!  ...i'll make it tonight and see how it looks
 sorry the coloring was quick
the larger black is to simulate the frame of the bike and all grey will be polished aluminum
the colors may change....not sure ilike the reds on there

for the bike im currently building i think i want to stay away from the suspension fork
  and really ive never been a big fan of them at all
the harley earl one sure looks cool though
i really like the bikes as sparce as possible with nice lines not alot of extra bolt ons
   i'd love to try to build something like that though, just to see if i could!
anyone wana sign the petition for 40 hour days....24 isnt enough!!!


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## chuckspeed (Jul 31, 2008)

Looks Good! 

You may want to go a bit more Art Deco on the Suhr font - that would 'make' it for me!


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## suhrsc (Jul 31, 2008)

hows this?


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## Dave Stromberger (Jul 31, 2008)

That is simply awesome! Love the look of it. You have inspired me to come up with my own bobber-style hotrod bike! BTW, love the cars on your website too.. those are some killer traditional rods!


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## 37fleetwood (Jul 31, 2008)

here is what the original Flying ace badge looked like.



Scott


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## chuckspeed (Jul 31, 2008)

I like the last iteration; close enough to the source badge to cause a collector to recognize it - yet different enough so as not to be plagarism.  

Only comment - I like the 'speed lines' in the earlier color rendition - but - they are more of a postwar thing, IMHO. All down to personal preference at this point.  If you use the Gee Bee as the background graphic, then you're pretty much set on a prewar font set.  Otherwise - the plane to use would be a P-51...but that's just wrong on this bike. 

Man - I sound like one of the nerds in High Fidelity, albeit with a historical bent.  I need a life.


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## suhrsc (Jul 31, 2008)

i like the speed lines too....
   but ruled them out trying to stay pre-war

i got the frame pretty much done tonight,
still needs a bit of work and then strip my other bike to assemble it and see if its ride-able
  etched the badge too

heres some shots as of tonight


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## Aeropsycho (Aug 1, 2008)

*Badge...*

How'd You Do Dat??? 

SWEET!!!:eek: 

J...


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## Aeropsycho (Aug 1, 2008)

*Maaan...*

You even got the Great and Powerful DAVE on here again!!! 

Keep going I think you should enter all this on the Rat site for fun... 

J...


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## suhrsc (Aug 1, 2008)

how'd I do what, the badge?

i cut a vinyl stencil then used ferric chloride to etch away the exposed aluminum


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## Aeropsycho (Aug 1, 2008)

*Your Scientific Process...*

Just curious how you made it Photo Etch?... Mannn Now I am Really Jellious!!! 

J...


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## suhrsc (Aug 1, 2008)

yeah its pretty simple with the vinyl...luckily i have access to a cutter at work
they make stuff called PNPblue for doing printed circuit boards
that works with a lazer printer

depending on how this bike rides....i think i might build another one thats a bit more confortable
   something a little higher off the ground...stretched out a bit more with a steeper headtube angle but still short chainstays to keep it feeling light
slightly higher bottom bracket too

the "racing ace" was just trying to simulate the picture more then actual riding comfort

but still i dont want a full "form follows function" bike
  it'll hopefully look cool still!
heres a preliminary idea...


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## chuckspeed (Aug 1, 2008)

AHA!

I GOT IT!

looked at the pix, and I know what's missing!  the handlebar stem has to have a down angle - or some sort of down offset to mimic the 'clip on' feel of a board tracker.  The lines look good - the handlebar needs to be moved out and down to get the right proportions (and a reasonable riding position)


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## suhrsc (Aug 1, 2008)

notice the drawing on page 1  

thats in the plan!  

i just wana ride it now though....so we'll see how it is and if its worth buying parts for

thanks
  Zach


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## suhrsc (Aug 1, 2008)

here she is..... pretty comfortable to ride, suprizingly! :o 

i'm gona need to go down to 6" cranks as my toes hit a little like this, also need to find a 26" fender to cut down

soooo..
  if anyone has any decent 26" skip tooth wheels, 6" cranks, decent 1"pitch skiptooth chain, and 1 26" fender i might be interested if i can afford it

Zach


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## chuckspeed (Aug 1, 2008)

Umm...

When ya ride, yer toes should barely stick out beyond the pedal blocks; the balls of yer feet should be on the on the centerline of the pedals

I do a lotta miles this way barefoot; it's the way 2 go.

Prob is - the seat has to B up an inch or two for articulation of yer ankle. That's why I want the crank of the Board Tracker forward and the seat back; need the space to spin the crank. 

U sellin that bike? 



suhrsc said:


> here she is..... pretty comfortable to ride, suprizingly! :o
> 
> i'm gona need to go down to 6" cranks as my toes hit a little like this, also need to find a 26" fender to cut down
> 
> ...


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## suhrsc (Aug 1, 2008)

yeah....thats....ummmm.....proper!
  BMX for too many years has me riding with my feet centered!  

always felt more comfortable flying through the air like that....
  anyways.....its actually really comfortable to ride.
i like it!  

didn't really intend on selling it
  but i might? who knows!
  the only thing to go would be the frame

all else is off my other bike's


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## 37fleetwood (Aug 1, 2008)

suhrsc said:


> soooo..
> if anyone has any decent 26" skip tooth wheels, 6" cranks, decent 1"pitch skiptooth chain, and 1 26" fender i might be interested if i can afford it
> 
> Zach



well now... I'll have to look in my hoard and see what I have. we might be able to make some sort of deal. you know Godzilla could use a headbadge, and a custom one would really set things off. 
Scott


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## 37fleetwood (Aug 1, 2008)

ok, lets see how I did:
5" cranks:









small skip tooth sprocket:


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## 37fleetwood (Aug 1, 2008)

6" cranks:






 and I certainly could find an extra 26" fender or two in decent shape.
skip tooth chain is expensive and I have a set of prewar Schwinn wheels in decent useable shape I could part with but not too cheaply. if interested let me know. 
Scott


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## suhrsc (Aug 4, 2008)

37, i'll pm you

heres a couple more shots...
   i didnt want this thing to rust to i quickly painted it to ride around for the time being
   eventually i wana braze all the joints and blend them in....

i cut down my original rusty fender, and just painted it with the pitting

im thinking about thinning the paint down a little to match the other parts "patina"
we'll see

zach


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## imfastareyou (Aug 4, 2008)

Zach-
looks nice. 

you'll have to bring it to the show in MD in Nov if you're coming.  I was thinking about bringing a bike.  

and I might be able to set you up with some parts as well.  I'm looking for a offy super dual for my 8BA if you've got one.


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## suhrsc (Aug 4, 2008)

thanks
  im not too sure if i'll make it to the show or not, the jalopyrama i assume?
   i do have an offy intake but its on a motor paired with offy heads destined for my new track roadster
   sorry


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## suhrsc (Aug 4, 2008)

hmmm


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## 37fleetwood (Aug 4, 2008)

now you need something like a Brooks saddle! I'll go out in a bit and get some more photos for you.
Scott


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## rjs5700 (Aug 4, 2008)

Zach....great looking frame design!! That motor kit might be a good choice for you. A whizzer motor might fit the frame but the rear stays are too low for the belt drive. When those kits first came out I built a couple on Schwinn frames with Whizzer tanks and called them Wheezers.
John


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## suhrsc (Aug 4, 2008)

proof she rides....maybe not this fast   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CqMcsPoGuc


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 4, 2008)

37fleetwood said:


> now you need something like a Brooks saddle! I'll go out in a bit and get some more photos for you.
> Scott





I think a prewar Troxel would be nice, but the Brooks B90/3 is nice too.

Troxel examples from the 1930s:

http://www.bunchobikes.com/motorbikeads.htm

Brooks B90/3 for example: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/saddles/brooks-b90-3.html (no tie to Harris, just an example)

Of the two I lean toward the Troxels- Troxels had those long, double-action springs that hung down-- very vintage motorcycle-like. Troxel also made actual motorcycle saddles (google Henderson motorcycles for some examples). 

Other than that, and I may have missed this, I liked the flat bars in your blueprint design better than I like the inverted bars. Maybe you just haven't gotten to that part yet though. The flat bars are very similar to what was used on the high power motorcycles of the 1920s and early 1930s (the Henderson 4 comes to mind).


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