# Differences between the 1935,36,37  ELGIN BLUEBIRDS



## npence (Nov 20, 2011)

I was wondering what all differences where between the Bluebirds from 1935-1937. here is what I have found so far but not 100% sure on all of it. if you have any other differences or know my guesses are wrong please let me know. Thanks,Nate

I Believe this is the first running of the Bluebird that was offered in winter of 1935-36. and the differences between this one and the Original 1936 1/2 Bluebird.

First thing I noticed was the seat tube on the 35 is thinner then the 36 1/2.








the front fenders tail is a little different in flow.







some with the rear fender


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## npence (Nov 20, 2011)

The front HUB on the 35 is a New Departure w with NO Grease Port 




36 with a grease port




The rims on the 35 are triple drops and on the 36 1/2 on where drop center rims.









The rear Hub on the 35 is a New Departure D Hub 

the rear Hub on the 36 is a Finned hub with a grease port and Elgin Brake arm.


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## npence (Nov 20, 2011)

The Color Option in 35 was French Blue with Red trim or Red with Ivory Trim. some with 36 but in the winter of 36-37 the blue changed from French blue to Opalescent Blue. then in Summer of 37 your color option was Blue with Red trim or Gunmetal with Black trim. 


I also know the speedo changed between the 35-36 needle speedo to 37 to the roller expert speedo.


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## scrubbinrims (Nov 20, 2011)

*curvacious*

Hey Nate!

The seat mast was beefed up from the inital bluebird offering in 35, I am pretty sure I read that somewhere from a credible source.
What's also probably not common knowledge is the seatpost had a decal  (because its usually worn off).
This is from my 36:




I don't see to much difference in the front fenders you have pictured, but either your new edition's rear fenders have been slightly truncated in the restoration process or as you noted, it didn't flow as much in 1935.
I hate to have to mention the former possibility, but you know how flimsy the sheet metal is and mine is a little ruffled.




Chris


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## npence (Nov 20, 2011)

Chris,
 You might be right about the rear fender but you never know that is why I started this thread to get more answers. The front fender on the 35 is more rounded then the 36 1/2.

one other thing with your 36 what kind of stamp is on the seat does it say Elgin Or Troxel.


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## scrubbinrims (Nov 20, 2011)

Many Manufacturer produced catologues/advertisements claimed different hub options and I assume the options were based on availability or the particular contract in place.
In the case of an elgin bluebird in which there were not many produced, I would also assume that there is not a lot of variability between hubs in a yearly production.
I would be surprised to see a standard new departure on there...everything about these birds are custom/deluxe.
My 36 has for a front a musselman  with deep fins and no oil port.
The rear is also musselman with an oil port, but with a center band, which I thought all early bluebirds had.
The leafspring saddle is stamped "Troxel" and has no wear tabs.
I hope this helps.


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## npence (Nov 20, 2011)

According to the Fall Winter Catalog of 35-36 stats the Blue Bird came with New Departure coaster Brake Hub.


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## redline1968 (Nov 20, 2011)

here are some pics of the 35 that i  own.


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## redline1968 (Nov 20, 2011)

few mor pics. i dont have a grease port and the front is different on the hub. the rear fender is longer and the front is more pronounced on the curve.


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## npence (Nov 20, 2011)

Hey Chris,
 how does your Door fasten onto the tank. My 35 has a spring clamp thing that swings around and once it gets a little friction it tightens up. and on my 36 1/2 looks like they changed the design and just has a bolt with a fancy top to it so you can tighten it with your fingers. and even those tops to the screws are different between the two years.


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## scrubbinrims (Nov 21, 2011)

Regarding the tank top (door) on a 36, for mine anyway it has a clip that goes underneath the hull on the non-thumbscrew side and the screw itself is textured around the side.  
This clip offers resistance so when the thumscrew is out, the door pops up.
My speedo is the needle variety.
I am still skeptical on the ND Model D hubs though even being outnumbered in votes and with your reference...its a great hub, but I don't beleive it was on an early Bluebird just yet...just too standard and Elgins were primarily outfitted with Musselmans throughout the balloon era.
Chris


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## redline1968 (Nov 21, 2011)

is there anybody out there? smile if you can hear me.


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## scrubbinrims (Nov 21, 2011)

*Another consideration*

On my 36 reference bicycle, there are also 2 alemite oil ports in the bottom bracket and that port is also carried over to Musselman hubs...a New Departure hub has a cap that is flipped up to drop oil in the internals, while the alemite is a specific press delivery system.
Why would a bluebird come with an alemite pump (stored in the hull) to deliver grease to the crank bearings, but not the hubs if outfitted with New Departure?
Hmmm...


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## npence (Nov 21, 2011)

That is a good question I had the some one when I seen a new departure hub. then I looked in my old catalogs and from 35 to summer of 36 they are listed with a New Departure coaster brake hub. and then fall winter of 36 -37 it is just listed as a coaster brake hub no Name meaning they probably had a couple different suppliers at the time would be my guess and did the Musselman hubs have the grease fitting before 36.


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## redline1968 (Nov 21, 2011)

brake hub can be changed. i noticed the fender on one bike was trimmed and the others are crimped . mine are razor edged.  do you have the socket for the light in the tank?


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## npence (Nov 21, 2011)

Yes both of my Blue birds have the light socket in the tank.


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## npence (Nov 21, 2011)

What years did they have rivets in the seat.


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## scrubbinrims (Nov 21, 2011)

Nate,
Have you ever seen rivets/wear tabs on a leafsprung bluebird saddle having an original cover?

It's kinda like speedline airflows with gullwing bars and tomahawk stems...it has become a trend in restorations, to the point that a correct original model doesn't look proper without them.

Chris


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## Oldbikes (Nov 21, 2011)

Wait a minute...  Nate, You've got TWO BB's now?!  C'mon!


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## npence (Nov 22, 2011)

scrubbinrims said:


> Nate,
> Have you ever seen rivets/wear tabs on a leafsprung bluebird saddle having an original cover?
> 
> It's kinda like speedline airflows with gullwing bars and tomahawk stems...it has become a trend in restorations, to the point that a correct original model doesn't look proper without them.
> ...




I have seen one original Leaf spring seat with the rivets sold on ebay about year ago.


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## RMS37 (Nov 22, 2011)

*On the Rivet...*

Hi Nate and Chris, I apologize for my slow responses, you’ve both been locked in a holding pattern in my PM/email box while I am trying to keep the plates spinning in three different threads, I have some observations to share here but it has been hard to get free of the Iver thread I started and I owe several posts to the Twin-Formation group. I’ve also been studying the serial number information that has come to light from ABC services’ find!

I’ll toss out that “by the catalogs” the Bluebird seat is never shown on a Bluebird with side rivets. Besides being sold on the Bluebird, and with a shorter top on the Skylark, the saddle was also listed as an accessory in the Sears catalog in 1938 and 1939. Those illustrations also do not show the saddle with rivets. Where the rivets do appear is on the saddle when it was appropriated for use on the 1938/39 and 1939 Twin 60.

As noted that is “by the catalog” it is possible they were added earlier and just not illustrated as some of the promotional illustration was reused for more than one year. In defense of the late date, the 38 Bluebird illustration had to be produced in 1938 and does not show rivets.

I’m just about done with my Iver posting so I’ll try to get back to you both personally and on this thread shortly.


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## npence (Nov 22, 2011)

Thanks Phil for all your help. Thought it would be good to start this thread because I have been doing a lot of research on the blue bird and cant find a lot of details about them. so any knowledge you know about them would be great along with the twin bar formation. Thanks for all you do, Nate


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## npence (Nov 26, 2011)

In my research of the Bluebirds I have found a couple other BB with the rivets in the seats but they where restored bikes guess people added them over the years because they add a little flash to the seat. But I seen an all original skylark with the leaf spring seat and it had the rivets. where there difference in the sky lark seat and the bluebird seat besides the size of them.


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## oldwhizzer (Dec 7, 2011)

*Bluebird*

My Original Bluebird Has a ND Hub Rear Hub. It also has a very fine stripe around the Bump on side of the tank. Original seat no rivits or Buttons.


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## npence (Dec 7, 2011)

I would like to see the pics of the fine red line around the bump on the tank.


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## prewarbikes4sale (Dec 8, 2011)

*Fine Line*

I have owned 5 original paint Bluebirds and now own a red and blue one they ALL had the fine line. Red,Both blues


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