# Hey Guys- Tell Me About The Blue Elgin Motorbikes...



## Cowboy in NC (Jul 7, 2017)

New to the Forum, but been lurking around for a long time. My question is for you Elgin Experts. I have collected bikes for - well longer than most of you guys have been alive. I am putting together a new rider for myself that`s been hanging in the barn for thirty years. No Pictures Yet- I`m still trying to find some pieces and shape it up. I know, I know... but, no pictures this time. It`s still cooking...
   Bike is a 1935 Elgin Motorbike, Serial Number N109062. It was rust colored, but is slowly (with much effort) returning to it`s original color- which is a beautiful "almost purplish- COBALT BLUE". It has an accessory tank with matching color and had a feathered chainguard. This frame does not have the usual Ivory arrow spears coming off the headtube and on the seat post. Instead it has added decals much like Rollfast or Hawthorne arrows, with matching decals on each side of the tank. I know about Elgin`s offerings from the late 20s (the Cardinal and the Bluebird), but after `33-`34, I have seen ads for only "The Redbirds" and Motorbikes offered in Red and Black (with Ivory). My question is - Does anyone else have one of these? Anybody ever heard of one?
I appreciate your time and patience with an old man---- God Bless,---Cowboy


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## Robertriley (Jul 7, 2017)

I'd love to see a photo when get around to posting one.


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## Freqman1 (Jul 7, 2017)

I'm not sure what you mean by added decals as the bikes I've seen from this period all have paint on the frames. Are you sure it wasn't painted back in the day? Pics will surely help--its all just guessing until we can actually see the bike. V/r Shawn


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## Cowboy in NC (Jul 7, 2017)

Freqman1 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by added decals as the bikes I've seen from this period all have paint on the frames. Are you sure it wasn't painted back in the day? Pics will surely help--its all just guessing until we can actually see the bike. V/r Shawn



I understand, no pictures today.
It`s just starting to look like a bike again. But, "In Rust we Trust". Thanks Shawn.


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## Cowboy in NC (Jul 7, 2017)

Robertriley said:


> I'd love to see a photo when get around to posting one.



Maybe later, Chris... ------Cowboy
Have You seen a BLUE ONE or not?


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## Freqman1 (Jul 7, 2017)

Hey Cowboy about the only thing I can think of is the decals that were used on the Westfield built Indians. In the Indian line was the Sagamore and I believe it used the same decoration as the Indians. The Sagamore line was painted "Indian Blue" which appears to be a dark blue as you describe. Do the decals look anything like what I show below? BTW you need to road trip and come ride with us Sunday in Charlotte. V/r Shawn


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## saladshooter (Jul 7, 2017)

What cowboy describes sounds like the darts that are on this flying ace.

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/for-sale-1939-huffman-firestone-flying-ace.95294/#post-620974


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## Cowboy in NC (Jul 7, 2017)

Freqman1 said:


> Hey Cowboy about the only thing I can think of is the decals that were used on the Westfield built Indians. In the Indian line was the Sagamore and I believe it used the same decoration as the Indians. The Sagamore line was painted "Indian Blue" which appears to be a dark blue as you describe. Do the decals look anything like what I show below? BTW you need to road trip and come ride with us Sunday in Charlotte. V/r Shawn
> 
> View attachment 641104



Okay Hard Heads.., Pictures...

 

 

 

 

 




saladshooter said:


> What cowboy describes sounds like the darts that are on this flying ace.
> 
> http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/for-sale-1939-huffman-firestone-flying-ace.95294/#post-620974



Exactly, same ones- Can anybody see my photos? New at this... Cowboy


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## Cowboy in NC (Jul 7, 2017)

Still Need an Egg Crate Rack and a nice chrome triple stepped front wheel. "Wanted Guys" are ignoring me... New Guy...--------C.


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## Freqman1 (Jul 7, 2017)

While its old I have my doubts that is factory paint or markings. V/r Shawn


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## Cowboy in NC (Jul 7, 2017)

I know Shawn, But the Blue is original. That`s what I`m asking about.----C.
Dark Blue is the Original Color- Look at the factory sticker on the seat tube. Shame its rubbed out.
And I like the arrow darts- well placed, not some kids mischief...


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## Cowboy in NC (Jul 7, 2017)

I think my bike was originally a lesser model- a "Standard", the plain,cheaper Motorbike with painted fenders,(maybe even painted with left over paint from the Bluebirds of the 20s.) It had been there for a while unsold, all the young guys wanted a new flashy RED ONE. Someone in the Sales Department got smart- walked over to the parts counter and picked up a matching color tank and bolted it on. Then he maybe added a few more accessories. Then they added the Darts to make it a little racier.Tank was 98 cents (retail)- rack was 30 cents. So for just a few more dollars, they made a really plain bike look sharp and made one that would sell. And then they sold it on time- $5 down and $5 a month... It was Depression Times- they had to work hard and be smart to make that sale.-------C. PS . Still waiting for those Elgin Experts... Either way, it will make a great rider...----Cowboy


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## Freqman1 (Jul 8, 2017)

Let me know when you find them! V/r Shawn


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## New Mexico Brant (Jul 8, 2017)

The darts show up in the following 1952 catalog:
http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1952-guaranty-bicycle-supply-catalog.83499/
They are on the Flying Ace mentioned above and a Spiegel Airman bicycle discussed at length on this forum.


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## Cowboy in NC (Jul 8, 2017)

Excellent Post- Thanks Brant...----Cowboy


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## scrubbinrims (Jul 8, 2017)

Some paint original, some not, as discussed, this is an add on motorbike tank.
I've owned 2 of these 1st generation oriole's/not modeled...depending on year.
Both were red and coincidentally, one had and accessory add on Elgin tank which had a different, cursive script...that tank did not leave Sears like that.
I still have my original bluebird that has orange pins, very neat.
Chris


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## Robertriley (Jul 8, 2017)

Cowboy in NC said:


> Maybe later, Chris... ------Cowboy
> Have You seen a BLUE ONE or not?



 I think there was one for sale here about a year or two and it went real fast. It was pretty clean if I remember right


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## scrubbinrims (Jul 8, 2017)

Found it...it's was a '37 with radius fenders, but this is what the period accessory tank look like...never was a fitted tank for this frame.
Chris


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## scrubbinrims (Jul 8, 2017)

And my early bluebird...not the best picture I've got with different bars and saddle, but you can see what the original paint looked like as seen on the battery can (the clamp had covered up and prevented oxidation).
Chris


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## Cowboy in NC (Jul 8, 2017)

Okay-Thanks Guys. "Love the Bluebird, by the way..." I see the difference in the blue color. My Blue is more a Cobalt- Purplish Blue. Not the same as the 20s Bluebird, I see that. I`m sorry that I cannot show you better," there is one color of paint on this frame." There is also a partial illegible decal on the seat tube that also is original, See Photos. Under it is blue paint. This bike was never red or black. There are scratches on this frame and anywhere there was red or black (or ivory) underneath would stick out like sore thumb. I have had this Bike all to pieces. Color is baked on enamel - anything less would have scrubbed off by now, or at least started to.--- 0000 Steel Wool and WD...followed by some light compound. If this bike had been repainted ever- it would be several colors now-- but its not.
I understand that the tank was an add on but the blue is a perfect match. As I said in my previous post, I believe that someone (pretty smart) in one of the Stores maybe assembled this bike, because it was the lesser model and had not sold ( no ivory arrows on the frame or fork - no chrome fenders). This bike has the deliberately abbreviated spikes of ivory coming off of the headtube and single ivory pinstripes on the sides of the fork and on the length of the tank to match.This frame left the Westfield factory that way for sure--BLUE. The Cheap Blue Bikes could have been a test run by the company that we`ve never read about. They might have abandoned it but let a few slip out. It might have come down in a memo from upstairs to outfit these plain blue bikes with extra accessories to get rid of them. "Here, I`ll send You some Blue Tanks that match to help"... Who Knows? The light blue stripe on the tank (that I actually like better) was an ivory pinstripe that was almost completely removed during cleanup- leaving only a faint white translucent line over an undisturbed blue background.  I think they made this bike off of their accessory shelf-- to help move it on down the road. It could have been one bike or one of several. It was just too plain to sell otherwise with all those Fancy Red or Black Deluxe Bikes around." I think they ended up with a good looking Bike. I would not misrepresent anything about a piece of Junk ever and it`s all junk." Color is baked on BLUE- COBALT BLUE. Nobody in the 1940s, 50s or 60s ,70s- whatever would have gone to the trouble of completely restoring this bike in Blue baked on enamel. It wasn`t worth anything then. Nobody wanted one. They wanted a Black Phantom or a Crazy Krate Bike.The wear on this bike is consistent with it being 80 plus years old. I have owned a lot of Vintage and Antique Bikes, toys, pedal cars and other and can tell original paint from repaint.
Under the Blue Paint is a factory red oxide primer (like Schwinns and others used) over the bare metal- but it is not Red Paint.
I bought this bike in the late 80s- it was rusty then. I hung it in the barn for about another thirty years. I bought it because I had never seen a Blue one.
It doesn`t really matter, It`s not gonna be sold and -I`m not trying to make a Bluebird out of a molehill. I`M GOING TO BED...
God Bless--Cowboy
Yes, I know I`m long winded. One more thing... Anything that didn`t go well for a major company like Elgin or Sears is not gonna be preserved for posterity. Let`s tell them about "all those blue bikes we couldn`t sell in `35". Ha, ha, ha.


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## Cowboy in NC (Jul 8, 2017)

One more thing. Once years ago, I found a neat old bottle at the local flea market. I paid $1.00. It was a Historical Flask from the year 1892. It read "Our Choice- Cleve and Steve", and had the pictures of two gentlemen on the front. This was from the Presidential Election of Grover Cleveland and Adlai Stevenson Sr. They gave away Whiskey to those who voted for them. So, what`s the point of the story? I had trouble researching it and finally a friend came up with a book that pictured just a line drawing of it. The book said that the bottle was made in amber (brown) glass and in amethyst color(purple) glass. But mine was aqua.(light blue) The completed auction on Ebay was for $716.00. The point of the story is not the money part, it`s that even the guys that write the books can be wrong...-----C.
Blue-- Blue-- Blue... I`m so Blue.... And my Bike is , too...


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## Jay81 (Jul 9, 2017)

I have to agree with you Cowboy, the paint looks original to me from what I can see in the pics. I don't know whether the darts are factory original, but they have been on there a very long time, likely since the bike was new. Very cool bike!


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## Cowboy in NC (Jul 9, 2017)

Jay81 said:


> I have to agree with you Cowboy, the paint looks original to me from what I can see in the pics. I don't know whether the darts are factory original, but they have been on there a very long time, likely since the bike was new. Very cool bike!



Thanks Jay... ------------Cowboy


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## Cowboy in NC (Jul 9, 2017)

Here`s the deal Guys... not mad with anybody. Lots of Great Guys here that are trying to help. Maybe it`s my fault -maybe I started off wrong?
I originally posted a question about a Blue Elgin Motorbike- did anybody have one or had anyone ever seen one. I shouldn`t have said that I was
trying to clean up one for a rider-- I really wasn`t ready to show any pictures yet. But to appease the ones that had responded- I did.
I should not have. I blame myself.  I should not have allowed this redirection. Who am I? I`m the guy that asked the question.  Because, the subject changed automatically from my question to a critique of the Bike. I didn`t need that stuff...  It`s mostly when I second guess myself that I fall into trouble.
I am almost always right with my first response - ask anybody in Dunn, NC  -basically  "It`s a Curse" - except for that time I married that Yankee Woman... I was really wrong that time...
And if I don`t know, I`m not ashamed to say," Sorry, I don`t know."

Now, this post is in its second page already. And nobody has answered either of those questions yet... Nobody... Nobody... Why Boys?
So, if anybody wants to post- and your posts are appreciated, Please say "Yes, I`ve got one too "or" I think I saw one years ago" or" No, I `ve never seen one". But, don`t say "No, They never made one."
I already know it`s a Blue Elgin Motorbike-That`s why I bought it.  I`ve known it for 30 years. I learned my colors when I was Two. It`s really not that hard to tell original paint from not.  We don`t need to send off paint chips to check the chemical makeup,or maybe check for DNA from a skin sample found in the back inside corner of the tank. I`m past that already. Would anyone like to move on with me? Let`s proceed then...
 I Know its just an old bike. I have not held this thing in a vault for thirty years waiting to spring it on the unexpected. I have two barns full of old bikes and parts, and almost all of it I`ve had that long. To be honest, I`ve sold my best ones already through the years. There`s some rare bikes that I had never seen until I found this site- but you`d be surprised at what I`ve had and sold through the years. And beyond that, I`ve rode a million miles on old bicycles. I still ride a little most every day and have enjoyed it.
Now, I realize that a big part of this Post so far has been me talking- trying to justify something that we didn`t know anything about. That was wrong, too. You can`t start from there- we`ll never really know for sure why. Sears sold Millions of these, and out of boredom maybe or in competition with competitive companies, every once in a while they made a few that were a little different. Like a Shaft Drive Robin... Over on the "Trade, Sell Whole Bicycles Section" is a beautiful, beautiful little 34-35 Rollfast Motorbike for sale. A very similar bike to my Elgin. But what color is it? Oh my, could it be ? Go look at it- look good now- yes, same Blue ! So, mine must be a Rollfast? No, different frame , different fork, different bike. Same 1935 Blue, unrestored original paint, not perfect but a nice, nice bike.
   Now, next week Catfish, or Shawn or maybe Scott Himself is gonna find a turquoise Elgin Motorbike in the original Crate, and blow my little rusty Blue one out of the water.
Or a Sterling Silver Plated Bluebird...  Lots of Cool Bikes here- Lots of Cool Guys, too. But, just answer the question...----Cowboy


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## island schwinn (Jul 9, 2017)

No


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## Cowboy in NC (Jul 11, 2017)

island schwinn said:


> No



Hey, Guys. Been a little down hearted about my little Motorbike. I'm not any less sure about my convictions, but am sorry it caused a stink.
  I`m gonna share one more story with You.
Years ago, a lady called me with a bunch of toys that she wanted to sell. Mostly little girl stuff,-got her neat little Cowgirl outfit that was 60 plus years old.
But in the middle of the kitchen table- was what I knew was the best old toy that I had ever seen. It was what they call " a Bell Toy", circa 1880s. The toy pictured two clowns -one using the other like a wheel barrel. The clowns had pointed hats. When you pulled the toy- a bell underneath would ring. It was a cast iron toy. But it was black with dirt and soot as though it had been in the attic for a hundred years  I bought everything she had, and figured that toy as about $200 of the investment.
   Under the soot was the original paint- it took some doing and toy needed slight repair- on a scale of one to ten, it was a solid eight. But I couldn`t find any information about it- nothing. I have an older friend from Raleigh, who has collected toys for over 50 years and has shared some things with me out of his collection. I knew that beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was the finest antique toy that I had ever found- and decided to return the favor and give it to him for his collection. Well, he was thrilled. Next time I went to his house the piece was displayed in a prominent place in his living room. Times passes -a couple of years.
  There was a large Antique Show at the Fairgrounds in Raleigh. There was a Big Dealer of antique cast iron toys there with his display of HIGH DOLLAR cast iron banks, bell toys and cast iron vehicles. He also had been in the business for over half a century. My buddy took his toy and showed it to him. The Dealer said it was a "FANTASY TOY"- something made to resemble toys of that era- but they never really made one like that. I was outraged! I had seen this toy as found- I knew it was old. The next time the same guy came back with his display- I went with my buddy and calmly asked him," Could this be from a foreign country, England or France, etc.- but from the same era? "No, it`s a Fantasy Toy.--very blunt." The next time I went over to my buddy`s house- the toy had been demoted- moved to the collection in the basement.
  But, I didn`t give up on what I was so sure about it. I never give up... when I know I`m right.
 I kept researching- another year or two passed. And then one night as I was sitting by my computer, a picture of the same toy FINALLY came up on the screen. One had sold at auction a few months earlier at a major auction house, " Listed as the Only Known Example" of this particular toy - Made by the Ives Company, circa 1880s.......        It brought- Get Ready... ------------$14,000 plus Buyers Premium for a total of $16,800...
I do not regret giving this piece away to a Great Friend-(never for a second), but as I said - I knew it was the best toy that I had ever seen. And I was right. It`s so boring to be right all the time.
And this is another time when the experts were wrong. The reason is "They weren`t there." I wasn`t either- but if you find an odd piece, that`s where you start from- the item.
I`m not gonna post anything else about my Motorbike. I apologize to Mr. Shawn.
I have made the friends of  Mr. Shawn mad at me. Well, You Guys-- get over it! If I`m right and I mostly always am-
There is at least "One" Blue Elgin Motorbike in the World- I would not have said it if I wasn`t sure.
It`s another thing for you guys to look for in your travels... another one.
I`ll soon will be riding mine .. God Bless,---Cowboy
I am not answering any other posts about this... not ever...


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## THE STIG (Jul 11, 2017)

Beam Me Up SCOTTY .....................................


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## redline1968 (Jul 18, 2017)

If there was a order for blue they would paint over another color to sell it...if it was a special priced  in store bike they could do what the store requested. So anything is possible including the stripes and decals ....I wouldn't worry.. take opinions with a grain of salt and enjoy the score you sleep better at night.


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## scrubbinrims (Jul 18, 2017)

What I can say with a very high degree of certainty is that:
#1 your bicycle has had its headtube repainted white...there's residue on the badge and the way it ends without terminating into darts on the top tube and downtube wasn't done.
#2 your bicycle has known aftermarket decal or stencil patterns, the same on the tank as the downtube.
#3 Sears did not in any literature I have seen from this era, picture a bike with these patterns, nor did the manufacturer Westfield.
#4 Your forks had some contrasting detail which is conspicuously missing.
I have a blue Elgin Motorbike which I evidenced you...they exist, but I think you are trying to set yours apart by being a wider top tube frame in blue.
I do not doubt that blue could be ordered from Sears in your case, however given the above circumstances, the story it was custom from Sears retail is not plausible, regards of what primer was used (that was available to consumers as well).
Your bike has character and is one of a kind, but all the pre 1900's analogies (when documention may not have existed and production was small) doesn't make your self fulfilling conclusion correct.
Old repaints look old.
You like your bike, great...you are proud of it, great, keep rolling but don't expect me/us to accept is as a factory original.
Chris


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