# WTB-  2 speed musselman suicide shifter for bluebird



## Nickinator (Jan 7, 2013)

A friend of mine has me on the look out for a shifter for his bluebird.
If you have any leads on one or have one please pm me.

Picture of what hes looking for below. 

Thanks, Nick.


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## Freqman1 (Jan 8, 2013)

The last time someone asked about these a couple turned up at about $1500 each! I'd like one fo rmy Twin 20 but at that price it is almost double what I paid for the whole bike! A Bluebird is a whole different game though. I'm just curious when the Mussleman was introduced though? V/r Shawn


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## Balloontyre (Jan 8, 2013)

*2 versions*

Were available, geared differently boys vs girls.


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## Freqman1 (Jan 8, 2013)

Do you happen to know the first year of availability? V/r Shawn


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## scrubbinrims (Jan 8, 2013)

I want one of those as well, but it will have to come in time on a bicycle that flys under the radar.
Chris


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## frankster41 (Jan 8, 2013)

What is so dangerous about this shifter set up that the term suicide is associated with it? Just wondering. frankster41


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## bricycle (Jan 8, 2013)

frankster41 said:


> What is so dangerous about this shifter set up that the term suicide is associated with it? Just wondering. frankster41




...what you have to pay for one.

Hey let's repop these?


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## Balloontyre (Jan 8, 2013)

frankster41 said:


> What is so dangerous about this shifter set up that the term suicide is associated with it? Just wondering. frankster41




All your non Elgin riding friends could not take their eyes off this marvel of a gadget, they would loose sight of the road in front of them and crash.

First and only year that I see this in the Annual Catalogs is 1938, not offered as an accessory, the lolly pop 2 speed was offered in the accessories pages 1939-1942.


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## frankster41 (Jan 8, 2013)

Great answer Ivo I got a chuckle out of that. frankster41


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## John (Jan 8, 2013)

*2-Speed*

Information
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zazdatabaz/6829533541/in/faves-92117/
History
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zazdatabaz/6829534437/in/faves-92117/
1937 Patents
http://www.google.com/patents?id=T-...ted_pages&cad=1#v=onepage&q=Musselman&f=false
http://www.google.com/patents/US217...d=0CEUQ6wEwBDgU#v=onepage&q=Musselman&f=false
1938
http://www.google.com/patents/US218...d=0CEgQ6wEwBTgU#v=onepage&q=Musselman&f=false


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## John (Jan 8, 2013)

Suicide shift is a motorcycle term


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## Freqman1 (Jan 8, 2013)

Actually there is something kinda in the works on these and if enough interest is shown a repo of these may become a reality. Re: the reason I asked the year was going back to Nick's original request. While I think I remember one of these being on a BB that sold at auction-Copake? a few years back I ddn't think they were offered long or early enough for the first BBs. I'll have to check my Elgin book tonight but I thought I saw these into 1940? V/r Shawn


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## Nickinator (Jan 8, 2013)

Freqman1 said:


> Actually there is something kinda in the works on these and if enough interest is shown a repo of these may become a reality. Re: the reason I asked the year was going back to Nick's original request. While I think I remember one of these being on a BB that sold at auction-Copake? a few years back I ddn't think they were offered long or early enough for the first BBs. I'll have to check my Elgin book tonight but I thought I saw these into 1940? V/r Shawn




I see them show up in 38 and continue to make them until 41.
I would be interested in one for myself if they started to repop them.

Nick.


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## Balloontyre (Jan 8, 2013)

Nickinator said:


> I see them show up in 38 and continue to make them until 41.
> I would be interested in one for myself if they started to repop them.
> 
> Nick.




Dude man, do you have a reference showing post 1938 availability?
Ivo


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## Nickinator (Jan 8, 2013)

Balloontyre said:


> Dude man, do you have a reference showing post 1938 availability?
> Ivo



here you go


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## John (Jan 8, 2013)

1937 Musselman 2 speed

[video=youtube;qorllAiTEUw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qorllAiTEUw&amp;feature=youtu.be[/video]


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## Balloontyre (Jan 8, 2013)

Nick, thanks man, great stuff. I think Shawn was asking specific to the application of this setup on Elgins???
The Sears books only show it in 1938 from what I can see.


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## frankster41 (Jan 8, 2013)

I guess I would call it a jocky shift. The motorcycle term would be suicide clutch. The old chopper foot clutch set up became dangerous if you had to put your left foot down to keep from falling over, the clutch would then be fully ingaged. If there was something ahead of you , you would run into it.


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## John (Jan 8, 2013)

Still sold today
http://hbbcinc.com/parts-suicide-shifter.php


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## John (Jan 8, 2013)

Other parts to the shifter
[video=youtube;akue74kPnQc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akue74kPnQc&amp;feature=youtu.be[/video]


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## bike (Jan 8, 2013)

*great info but I am still not seeing*



John said:


> Information
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/zazdatabaz/6829533541/in/faves-92117/
> History
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/zazdatabaz/6829534437/in/faves-92117/
> ...




ratios for boys or girls

if you buy one and put it on your bike - even a 20, it still holds value-worst case just take it off when ready to sell!
There is the illustration out ther of the catalog page with the kid shifting twin 20- very cool!


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## bike (Jan 8, 2013)

*I understand Suicide borrowed from motorycle hobby*

many rats had shifters directly on the trans and these were called suicide cause your attention was moved from the road- I have seen mtc tank shifters called suicide but I think this is wrong


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## Balloontyre (Jan 8, 2013)

*I need to learn to read*

Here is what 1938 catalog has. I think it's just describing the effect of gearing on the 2 different bikes, not actually 2 different rear gears. :o


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## sm2501 (Jan 8, 2013)

I have one available. Can get some pictures tomorrow for serious inquiries.


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## Nickinator (Jan 8, 2013)

sm2501 said:


> I have one available. Can get some pictures tomorrow for serious inquiries.




Thanks scott here is my email
Nickinator1@gmail.com


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## Freqman1 (Jan 8, 2013)

So I looked through the Hurd/Gordon Elgin book and I see on the middle of pg 32 the 2 spd model for S/S '38, at the top of pg 41 it shows the 2spd as an accessory for F/W '39, and lastly on pg 44 is the Elgin 2 spd Twin 20 model for S/S '39. So it kind looks like about a year and a half from '38-9. So probably period correct from about '36/7 until the war. Did other manufacturers offer this or was it exclusive to Sears? V/r Shawn


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## Balloontyre (Jan 8, 2013)

Shawn, are those the jockey shifter style? I only see the jockey in 1938 and lolly pop style after that


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## John (Jan 8, 2013)

AD for 2 speed 1938

http://books.google.com/books?id=I9...a=X&ei=T8jsUPCxJafuiQLD-YCICg&ved=0CFoQ6AEwBg


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## John (Jan 8, 2013)

1939 ad 
http://www.nostalgic.net/bicycle86/picture202


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## John (Jan 8, 2013)

Huffman must have had them too


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## Freqman1 (Jan 8, 2013)

You're funny John! Do you have the lights and horn wired on your SS? Gonna put a rack on it or go Dutch--that's for you Ronald! V/r Shawn


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## John (Jan 9, 2013)

*Trade*

I do have an Elgin Musselman two speed that I would trade for a Musselman New Departure or Morrow two speed. The sun gear is what makes them fit different hubs. So if you change the sun gear, you can swap out the hub. I have made the shifters, sprocket, and planetary gears. But the sun gear will take some time to do.
Thanks, John

Hey Shawn, 
No wiring yet. The bike has a different tank that’s will be going on the bike. Have not decided about the rack, I want the girls SS together before I decide.


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## bike (Jan 9, 2013)

*I think the different ratios girls vs boys is due to chain ring size..*



Balloontyre said:


> Here is what 1938 catalog has. I think it's just describing the effect of gearing on the 2 different bikes, not actually 2 different rear gears. :o




.................


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## sm2501 (Jan 9, 2013)




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## sm2501 (Jan 9, 2013)

John said:


> I do have an Elgin Musselman two speed that I would trade for a Musselman New Departure or Morrow two speed. The sun gear is what makes them fit different hubs. So if you change the sun gear, you can swap out the hub. I have made the shifters, sprocket, and planetary gears. But the sun gear will take some time to do.
> Thanks, John
> 
> Hey Shawn,
> No wiring yet. The bike has a different tank that’s will be going on the bike. Have not decided about the rack, I want the girls SS together before I decide.




John0

I have a spare Morrow that I would trade for a MM driver.

Scott


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## Nickinator (Jan 9, 2013)

Thanks everyone He found one.

Nick.


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## John (Jan 10, 2013)

sm2501 said:


> John0
> 
> I have a spare Morrow that I would trade for a MM driver.
> 
> Scott






Scott,
Sounds good, I will email you.
John


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## dfa242 (Jan 10, 2013)

Shawn, here's that Copake bike you were remembering with this shifter.

http://copakeauction.auctionflex.co...keyword=elgin&lso=lotnumasc&pagenum=1&lang=En


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