# The start of my 1957 AMF Roadmaster Pleasure Liner



## chiller662 (Jun 12, 2021)

First day I assessed what needs to be clean :no I will not be painting this and I am waiting on parts to complete the bike .

It's not to bad for sitting and a barn /garage for decades 



If anyone knows if the Roadmaster emblem is brass or supposed to be chrome it would be much appreciated 











I started with the rear wheel and hub due to it being so dirty that it was stuck and also If I can find bearings they will be replaced or at the very least cleaned and repacked with grease. 






I started with cleaning them with dawn first to brake up some of the crude than I had to use mineral spirits for the rest. There was no rust on the hub what so ever that it was that shiny just from cleaning it the actual rim of the wheel however did. I used aluminum foil dipped in water. There was a choice of using quad Ott steel wool or the aluminum but in knew the aluminum would pull the rust and won't scratch the surface. So far it turned out good but I will use same wax on it to protect it .


Next was the pedal assembly with the same process but I did not want to use the mineral spirits with it being so close to the paint . It still needs work but I will be pulling it off to finish cleaning it off . And yes I know it's a dark picture lol



That was the last part for the day to clean ,well technically I did clean the front fender it turned out well and I would have taken a picture but I took it to work to straighten the mounting bars . 

Hopefully this week I will have the bearings and tires but I have to get to cleaning the front storage rack and the rest of the chrome .

Any suggestions on the emblem or brining stickers on the bike back would be a help .


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## Pedaltherapy (Jun 12, 2021)

Nice start. Cool looking tank on those Liners.


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## chiller662 (Jun 12, 2021)

Pedaltherapy said:


> Nice start. Cool looking tank on those Liners.



Thanks I cant wait until it's complete


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## chiller662 (Jun 12, 2021)

chiller662 said:


> Thanks I can wait until it's complete


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## Oilit (Jun 13, 2021)

I think by this time AMF was using aluminum badges. Sometimes the colors fade pretty bad. As far as I know, 1955 was the last year AMF used brass badges.


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## mrg (Jun 13, 2021)

not sure if the Roadmaster emblem was chrome or brass but be carefull, they can break easily, especially the tabs that hold them on.


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## Rides4Fun (Jun 14, 2021)

Very nice find!  Your effort really made  that chrome shine.  Looking forward to seeing more of your progress as you move along!


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## HARPO (Jun 14, 2021)

Nice find!!

Is it me, or is the front fork pushed back quite a bit?


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## chiller662 (Jun 14, 2021)

HARPO said:


> Nice find!!
> 
> Is it me, or is the front fork pushed back quite a bit?



I put a straight edge up to it and it appears inline Oilit said the same thing but as for the curve and the bottom by the wheel I did not see any creases and they are parallel though the handle bars are crooked in the pic to so that's not helping


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## chiller662 (Jun 25, 2021)

Finally got the tires on and I am still working on the front fender still as well as a new chain. so far so good . I can't wait for more parts to come in. 



Don't mind the grease on the tire me and my grease gun had a fight .

Also if anyone has a lead on someone selling the correct cargo rack let me know.


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## Schwinny (Jun 25, 2021)

I'd like to know more about that Komet Super rear hub.
I've got one that came on a 60's Murray Space liner. 
It is on Murray rims so I've been thinking it was original to that bike.
I rebuilt it and it works fine but I still don't know much about it.


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## chiller662 (Jun 25, 2021)

As far as I know komet made hubs for some murrys mostly mountain bikes and multiple other bikes the hub is a reverse screw type where when peddleing backwards it tightens Wich forces out the pads. They should work fine on your bike as long as it is the same spoke count they are interchangable. It has a different style grease fitting than I have seen on it that you have to use a rubber fitting adapter for but not to bad.


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## Schwinny (Jun 25, 2021)

chiller662 said:


> As far as I know komet made hubs for some murrys mostly mountain bikes and multiple other bikes the hub is a reverse screw type where when peddleing backwards it tightens Wich forces out the pads. They should work fine on your bike as long as it is the same spoke count they are interchangable. It has a different style grease fitting than I have seen on it that you have to use a rubber fitting adapter for but not to bad.



Im not the Original Poster but that's good info. Thanks.
At least I know it came on that Space Liner bike and isn't an earlier harder to find version pirated off an older model.


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## razinhellcustomz (Jun 27, 2021)

chiller662 said:


> Finally got the tires on and I am still working on the front fender still as well as a new chain. so far so good . I can't wait for more parts to come in. View attachment 1435851
> View attachment 1435852
> 
> View attachment 1435853
> ...



This is one nice old Roadmaster... I need to know if you have a rear fender coming? I might have one if you need one. Good looking bike so far. Enjoy and RideOn. Razin.


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## chiller662 (Jun 27, 2021)

Oilit is supposed to sell me the chain guard and the rear fender when he heads up to my for another bike but if for some reason that falls though I will let you know still need the rear rack but I might have to run it with out for now lol.


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## razinhellcustomz (Jun 27, 2021)

Good to go... Don't need a rack to ride. What kind of tires did you go with? They really POP!! Thanks for sharing. RideOn. Razin...


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## Archie Sturmer (Jun 27, 2021)

What was the deal about the “G” stamping; was the bicycle sold as a Gambles, Goodyear or Goodrich?

Or just the 7th letter for the 1957th year?


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## chiller662 (Jun 27, 2021)

I had to go with duros 26 1.75 no bike shop in my area has any white walls and they are a few months out for ordering . Eventually I will get American made tires but they do look good .


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## razinhellcustomz (Jun 27, 2021)

Archie Sturmer said:


> What is the deal about the “G” stamping; was the bicycle sold as a Gambles, Goodyear or Goodrich?



The G probably stands for Gambles.


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## Oilit (Jun 27, 2021)

razinhellcustomz said:


> The G probably stands for Gambles.



A Gambles-sold bike would be badged as a Hiawatha. According to Phil Marshall's list, they started using "G" to mark the year on the bikes in 1957, although the catalog model numbers used a letter for each year from at least 1953. AMF bought CWC in 1951, so I assume 1951 was "A", then 1952 was "B" and so on. Before 1957 the bikes used "55Cw" (1955) and "56Cw" for at least part of 1956, but sometime during the year they started using "F" beside the serial number. After 1957 they went to another system, with the first letter of the serial number giving the year. There's a whole thread on CWC and AMF serials with 60 pages, but @rustjunkie changed the title to give the page with the chart so you don't have to read through the whole thing:








						Cleveland Welding S/N Project...See Page 58 Post 576 for chart | Classic Balloon Tire Bicycles 1933-1965
					

Since many of us have asked, and many of us has now or maybe had in the past a CWC built Roadmaster, I think it's time to start a List. If a picture/serial number list could be started and updated with new entries including frame characteristics, I think we over time could rebuild a serial...




					thecabe.com


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## chiller662 (Jun 27, 2021)

Oilit said:


> A Gambles-sold bike would be badged as a Hiawatha. According to Phil Marshall's list, they started using "G" to mark the year on the bikes in 1957, although the catalog model numbers used a letter for each year from at least 1953. AMF bought CWC in 1951, so I assume 1951 was "A", then 1952 was "B" and so on. Before 1957 the bikes used "55Cw" (1955) and "56Cw" for at least part of 1956, but sometime during the year they started using "F" beside the serial number. After 1957 they went to another system, with the first letter of the serial number giving the year. There's a whole thread on CWC and AMF serials with 60 pages, but @rustjunkie changed the title to give the page with the chart so you don't have to read through the whole thing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




One day there will be a museum of antique bikes and all information provided will come from the encyclopedia of Oilit lol


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## TieDye (Jun 27, 2021)

Oilit said:


> A Gambles-sold bike would be badged as a Hiawatha. According to Phil Marshall's list, they started using "G" to mark the year on the bikes in 1957, although the catalog model numbers used a letter for each year from at least 1953. AMF bought CWC in 1951, so I assume 1951 was "A", then 1952 was "B" and so on. Before 1957 the bikes used "55Cw" (1955) and "56Cw" for at least part of 1956, but sometime during the year they started using "F" beside the serial number. After 1957 they went to another system, with the first letter of the serial number giving the year. There's a whole thread on CWC and AMF serials with 60 pages, but @rustjunkie changed the title to give the page with the chart so you don't have to read through the whole thing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually, 1952 was the first year that they went with 52Cw and that continued through 1956 with 56Cw. In January of 1957, they began using the letters, starting with A#serial number for the MONTH of January in the year 1957. 1957 had a suffix (what's to the right of the full serial number) as G. So, a bike made in January 1957 would have a serial number of A33465 G, as an example. A February 1957 bike would have been B16543 G as an example, and C was March, etc. 
1958 bikes had H as the suffix with the first letter being the month of that year,  etc.  So, an example would be D43678 H, for a bike built in April of 1958.  See the accurate chart attached.


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## Oilit (Jun 28, 2021)

TieDye said:


> Actually, 1952 was the first year that they went with 52Cw and that continued through 1956 with 56Cw. In January of 1957, they began using the letters, starting with A#serial number for the MONTH of January in the year 1957. 1957 had a suffix (what's to the right of the full serial number) as G. So, a bike made in January 1957 would have a serial number of A33465 G, as an example. A February 1957 bike would have been B16543 G as an example, and C was March, etc.
> 1958 bikes had H as the suffix with the first letter being the month of that year,  etc.  So, an example would be D43678 H, for a bike built in April of 1958.  See the accurate chart attached.
> 
> View attachment 1437477



Did you see the Skyrider I posted in the CWC Serial thread? (Post #575, page 58). Going from the headbadge, it's from 1958, and the "H" is at the beginning of the serial, with no suffix. On the other hand, on the 2nd page of this thread -








						1950s AMF Roadmaster Luxury Liner Help | Middleweight Bicycles
					

@Connor  Throwing this out there.... If you ever want to part with the fenders, I've got a good example of a '58 Roady who only needs those fenders to be complete...   But if you are gunna keep those fenders.... Turn the front one around... It's on backwards :D;)  Sorry, but I don't think that...




					thecabe.com
				



- @Mitt25 posted a picture of a nice 1958 Luxury Liner with the serial on the left drop-out, and it has "H" with a 6 digit number, where the one I posted has the "H" with a 5 digit number under the bottom bracket. Have you got a picture of a 1958 with an "H" suffix? I haven't seen one of those.
Also, @Rivnut posted a picture in the CWC Serial number thread (Post # 463, page 47) of a bike with the serial with an "F" suffix, which is why I think they started using the letter suffix sometime in 1956. They started the year with the "56Cw" mark, because I've got a '56 Flying Falcon with that mark, but I think they changed the system before the year ended.


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## TieDye (Jun 28, 2021)

Oilit said:


> Did you see the Skyrider I posted in the CWC Serial thread? (Post #575, page 58). Going from the headbadge, it's from 1958, and the "H" is at the beginning of the serial, with no suffix. On the other hand, on the 2nd page of this thread -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A weird posting issue here. My reply is below.


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## TieDye (Jun 28, 2021)

@Oilit  I have seen a few 1958 with the H suffix, there were a few posted on Facebook in the last 6 months.
The blue Skyrider was made in Arkansas, not in Cleveland. The top of the fork is different than Luxury Liners had in those years.
Depending on the model and with changes being made, and with the plant moving, I'm sure there were bikes that they started stamping with the new location, and other models not. That's what happens when production starts in one location, and is also winding down and being finished at Cleveland until they were totally moved.
So, those times can have different examples, based on models and AMF continuing to make the models more what they want, and shedding the CWC styling as much as possible.
The 1952's and others with the year and Cw, like 52Cw, are stamped with the suffix through those years shown clearly on the chart.  Your post was incorrect about those years, but understandable because there were a lot of changes taking place as AMF had to phase CWC methods into their own.
At the time of 1955 a lot of manufacturers starting stamping serials on the rear area.  As AMF progressed, they too began stamping there as there was a need to make it easier to find a serial number.  And, think about AMF trying to bring in the CWC models into their own existing product line.  They made changes to each model as they saw fit, and that included where to stamp the serial number. Not only for their own branding, but to meet some guidelines and manufacturing response to law enforcement having difficulty finding serial numbers on stolen bicycles. There were a lot of changes being made at that time period, all the way around.


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## Oilit (Jun 28, 2021)

TieDye said:


> @Oilit  I have seen a few 1958 with the H suffix, there were a few posted on Facebook in the last 6 months.
> The blue Skyrider was made in Arkansas, not in Cleveland. The top of the fork is different than Luxury Liners had in those years.
> Depending on the model and with changes being made, and with the plant moving, I'm sure there were bikes that they started stamping with the new location, and other models not. That's what happens when production starts in one location, and is also winding down and being finished at Cleveland until they were totally moved.
> So, those times can have different examples, based on models and AMF continuing to make the models more what they want, and shedding the CWC styling as much as possible.
> ...



That sounds right. I know AMF made a lot of changes in a short period, moving Shelby to Cleveland and then moving both to Arkansas, and I'm still trying to figure out how to tell if a bike was made in Little Rock or Cleveland. My best guess is that it wasn't done all at once, but working out the details is a challenge. I wasn't there, so all I can do is go by the bikes I see, but I've already had to change my mind a couple of times. If you get a chance to post a bike with the "H" suffix, I'd appreciate it.
When you say the top of the fork you mean the head set, correct? The luxury Liner used the spring fork, but I don't know if CWC made that themselves or had at least the forged parts made for them. I'm guessing they may have made the welded up "three plate" fork, but I can't say for sure even there. Most manufacturers use subcontracting to some extent, which just complicates the picture even more when you're trying to sort details. The forged forks on the Flying Falcons look just like the ones on Schwinn balloon Jaguars and the middleweights, so I'm guessing both came from Ashtabula Forge.
And @chiller662, as you can see there's still plenty I don't know!


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## TieDye (Jun 28, 2021)

Oilit said:


> That sounds right. I know AMF made a lot of changes in a short period, moving Shelby to Cleveland and then moving both to Arkansas, and I'm still trying to figure out how to tell if a bike was made in Little Rock or Cleveland. My best guess is that it wasn't done all at once, but working out the details is a challenge. I wasn't there, so all I can do is go by the bikes I see, but I've already had to change my mind a couple of times. If you get a chance to post a bike with the "H" suffix, I'd appreciate it.
> When you say the top of the fork you mean the head set, correct? The luxury Liner used the spring fork, but I don't know if CWC made that themselves or had at least the forged parts made for them. I'm guessing they may have made the welded up "three plate" fork, but I can't say for sure even there. Most manufacturers use subcontracting to some extent, which just complicates the picture even more when you're trying to sort details. The forged forks on the Flying Falcons look just like the ones on Schwinn balloon Jaguars and the middleweights, so I'm guessing both came from Ashtabula Forge.
> And @chiller662, as you can see there's still plenty I don't know!



What I am talking about on the top of the fork on the Skyrider bike is different. See the circled areas in the pic I've attached. The styling there is very much like the 1953 Snyder built Hawthorne I have.  Roadmasters didn't use forks like that previous to the move.  I was NOT referring to the headset. Look at this picture.


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## Archie Sturmer (Jun 28, 2021)

“AMF trying to bring in the CWC models into their own existing production line….”

of bicycles? or bowling pins?

I have not been paying very close attention to these AMF/CWC bicycles of the later almost middleweight era.

I reviewed the fine print on the chart again, and I do not see the 12 letters (A-L or A-M) for the 12 months; was that for 1957 only, or 1952 and later; and did the prefix letters in those days start with an “A” in January; and are there 12 examples, one for each month of the year?


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## TieDye (Jun 28, 2021)

Archie Sturmer said:


> “AMF trying to bring in the CWC models into their own existing production line….”
> 
> of bicycles? or bowling pins?
> 
> I have not been paying very close attention to these AMF/CWC bicycles of the later almost middleweight era.



Lol.... I know AMF really didn't have a clue. They were trying to mainstream all the bikes and they cut back on a lot of what was normal for CWC. For example, AMF didn't want to bother with 4 to 5 different pedal models that CWC used. Think about pedals. CWC used Torringtons, Persons, and Walds near the end.  CWC had women's pedals with 3" and 3 1/2" blocks models 9 and 11. The men's pedals were 4" blocks and models 8 and 10. Then there was the youth pedals with 3" blocks. AMF said no way to all those. They put a 4" block Wald pedal on both men and women's bikes, and 3" on youth bikes.  So, they were only down to 2 pedal sizes, one manufacturer of them to stock. Everything they changed was done cheaper and that's why AMF bikes lost their appeal when middleweights were out. Too much cheapening of what was a good bike, and the bikes became the victims of too much of a narrowed vision and no understanding as to what made the CWC bikes so good.  They should have stuck with bowling balls. I don't own any of their middleweights because the quality went bye bye. And, what they did with Harley was nothing short of sacrilege too.
I will try to find those H bikes I saw. If so, I'll get screenshots and post them for you.
Deb


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## Oilit (Jun 28, 2021)

TieDye said:


> Lol.... I know AMF really didn't have a clue. They were trying to mainstream all the bikes and they cut back on a lot of what was normal for CWC. For example, AMF didn't want to bother with 4 to 5 different pedal models that CWC used. Think about pedals. CWC used Torringtons, Persons, and Walds near the end.  CWC had women's pedals with 3" and 3 1/2" blocks models 9 and 11. The men's pedals were 4" blocks and models 8 and 10. Then there was the youth pedals with 3" blocks. AMF said no way to all those. They put a 4" block Wald pedal on both men and women's bikes, and 3" on youth bikes.  So, they were only down to 2 pedal sizes, one manufacturer of them to stock. Everything they changed was done cheaper and that's why AMF bikes lost their appeal when middleweights were out. Too much cheapening of what was a good bike, and the bikes became the victims of too much of a narrowed vision and no understanding as to what made the CWC bikes so good.  They should have stuck with bowling balls. I don't own any of their middleweights because the quality went bye bye. And, what they did with Harley was nothing short of sacrilege too.
> I will try to find those H bikes I saw. If so, I'll get screenshots and post them for you.
> Deb



I actually get the impression that AMF intended to be a serious competitor, at first. As far as I can tell, they were the first to put a 3 speed hub on a balloon tire bike, and the early Flying Falcon and Shelby Golden Eagle both had some nice features for their day. But AMF seemed to figure out pretty quick that Schwinn's dealer network gave Schwinn an advantage they couldn't match, so then they started shifting their focus to entry-level department store bikes. And by the time they sold H.D. and Roadmaster in the early '80's, it's pretty obvious they were dying from self-inflicted wounds.
I hadn't noticed the top of the fork, that's interesting. My AMF Roadmasters are mostly Flying Falcons, which always used the forged forks.


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## TieDye (Jun 28, 2021)

Archie Sturmer said:


> “AMF trying to bring in the CWC models into their own existing production line….”
> 
> of bicycles? or bowling pins?
> 
> ...



Here's a blow up of 1958, you can see the months as Jan, etc. That's when they used the A, B, C, etc as the starting letter of the serial number, for Jan A, Feb B, etc. They skipped the capital I, and ended the year on Mnumber.  That was becoming industry standard then.  This easier to read chart has the month A, B, etc left off. It should be added in there, but by then it was industry standard if they had a year code as a suffix, the first letter would be the month.  Keep in mind too that on the left side of the chart, the months are shown there, and each letter that started the serial numbers, like in 1948 etc, ran for about 3 months. The serials then went like D00001 to D9999 in that range, then changed to E and went again, etc.  Later, using A for January, etc helped them to get more structure in the serial numbers.  Whether it was 52Cw or H, etc. the year and month of build was becoming more exact and easier to keep track of. Hopefully, this makes sense to you. If not, I'll do better at explaining it to you.


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## Oilit (Jun 28, 2021)

TieDye said:


> Here's a blow up of 1958, you can see the months as Jan, etc. That's when they used the A, B, C, etc as the starting letter of the serial number, for Jan A, Feb B, etc. They skipped the capital I, and ended the year on Mnumber.  That was becoming industry standard then.  This easier to read chart has the month A, B, etc left off. It should be added in there, but by then it was industry standard if they had a year code as a suffix, the first letter would be the month.  Keep in mind too that on the left side of the chart, the months are shown there, and each letter that started the serial numbers, like in 1948 etc, ran for about 3 months. The serials then went like D00001 to D9999 in that range, then changed to E and went again, etc.  Later, using A for January, etc helped them to get more structure in the serial numbers.  Whether it was 52Cw or H, etc. the year and month of build was becoming more exact and easier to keep track of. Hopefully, this makes sense to you. If not, I'll do better at explaining it to you.
> 
> View attachment 1437919



But this was only for 1957 and '58, correct? On the bikes I've seen, there aren't any suffixes after 1958, just the letter (for the year) and the number.


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## TieDye (Jun 28, 2021)

Oilit said:


> But this was only for 1957 and '58, correct? On the bikes I've seen, there aren't any suffixes after 1958, just the letter (for the year) and the number.



No, suffixes (letters after and to the right of the serial number) continued through 1963.  You're not understanding what I mean by a suffix. Here's a scenario to help. There's a bike, the info on the bottom of the frame says:  B47652  then to the right of that, it says G.  The correct build info is this, B=February. 47652 is the consecutive build number. The G is the year G=1957.  So, this example was built in February 1957.
So, if the serial number says G43345, suffix of G it means it was built in July of 1957.


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## TieDye (Jun 28, 2021)

chiller662 said:


> First day I assessed what needs to be clean :no I will not be painting this and I am waiting on parts to complete the bike .
> 
> It's not to bad for sitting and a barn /garage for decades
> View attachment 1428748
> ...



Built in March of 1957.


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## Oilit (Jun 28, 2021)

TieDye said:


> No, suffixes (letters after and to the right of the serial number) continued through 1963.  You're not understanding what I mean by a suffix. Here's a scenario to help. There's a bike, the info on the bottom of the frame says:  B47652  then to the right of that, it says G.  The correct build info is this, B=February. 47652 is the consecutive build number. The G is the year G=1957.  So, this example was built in February 1957.
> So, if the serial number says G43345, suffix of G it means it was built in July of 1957.



I understand what you mean, but it doesn't match the bikes I've seen. I haven't seen a suffix on any bike built after 1957. I don't doubt some could have had a suffix in 1958 but if you have one later than that I want to see pictures. In my Pleasure Liner thread I posted pictures of serials from three Roadmasters, a 1957 Pleasure Liner, a 1958 Pleasure Liner and a Sky King, and you can see neither later bike has a suffix. The cantilever frame on the Sky King wasn't introduced until 1958 and the first advertisement I've seen is from 1959, so I take the "J" as 1959. The Pleasure Liner I take as 1958 by the badge, but it also has a "J" serial number, so that badge may have been used into 1959. But I also have 1958 and 1960 Flying Falcons with "H" and "K" serials, and neither of those serials has a suffix. I don't have pictures of the F.F. serials, but I'll get them if you want. One bike not having a suffix could be an oddball, but four?








						1957 Roadmaster Pleasure Liner | Middleweight Bicycles
					

I like these '50's AMFs, sometimes against my better judgement. I think 1958 was the last year for either the Pleasure Liner or the Luxury Liner, so this was getting towards the end. 1957 was the last year for the kickstand plate, I've seen it on some of the early cantilever frames, but it...




					thecabe.com
				



In this thread you can see the hub on my 1958 Flying Falcon is dated "57 10", so the hub was built Oct. 1957.








						Amf Roadmaster flying falcon | Middleweight Bicycles
					

Can anybody give me some info on this bike. Real barn find. I believe it's a mid 50s bike but I can't find any good info on it.




					thecabe.com


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## TieDye (Jun 28, 2021)

Oilit said:


> I understand what you mean, but it doesn't match the bikes I've seen. I haven't seen a suffix on any bike built after 1957. I don't doubt some could have had a suffix in 1958 but if you have one later than that I want to see pictures. In my Pleasure Liner thread I posted pictures of serials from three Roadmasters, a 1957 Pleasure Liner, a 1958 Pleasure Liner and a Sky King, and you can see neither later bike has a suffix. The cantilever frame on the Sky King wasn't introduced until 1958 and the first advertisement I've seen is from 1959, so I take the "J" as 1959. The Pleasure Liner I take as 1958 by the badge, but it also has a "J" serial number, so that badge may have been used into 1959. But I also have 1958 and 1960 Flying Falcons with "H" and "K" serials, and neither of those serials has a suffix. I don't have pictures of the F.F. serials, but I'll get them if you want. One bike not having a suffix could be an oddball, but four?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



J at the end of the serial number is 1959. I have personally seen 2 or 3 H's and about 3 G's at the end of the serial numbers in the last 8 months or so.  I didn't save pics but if I see the posts again on Facebook, I'll get pics to you. Keep in mind if the hub was built in October of 1957, it would most likely been laced into a rim in 1958 at the earliest. And, it could be possible to be laced in a rim in early 1959 as well. They used different brand hubs, not just one, so that would be a variable there.
In the early CWC days, they offered 3 different brand rear hubs Musselman, Morrow, and New Departure. In early 1946, Bendix introduced their original coaster brake rear hubs. They took until into the 3rd quarter of 1946 to show up on some 1946 CWC bikes, as they then offered Bendix and New Departure. More of them are found on 1947 bikes, etc.  So, the build date on hubs would be earlier than when the bike was assembled.
I also know that with 2 plants building the bikes, one plant was doing some things differently. That's been documented in the literature already.


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## Archie Sturmer (Jun 28, 2021)

Oilit said:


> I understand what you mean, but it doesn't match the bikes I've seen.



So, it seems that you are not asking for a word _explanation_ of a theory, but asking what the *basis* for that theory might be, or how a rule is demonstrated, (besides an “_industry_ _standard_” thing). 

And about what years was the industry standard started; about when did following the industry standard fall out of favor. 

Who highjacked this nice project thread to discuss serial numbers stamping(!).


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## TieDye (Jun 29, 2021)

Archie Sturmer said:


> So, it seems that you are not asking for a word _explanation_ of a theory, but asking what the *basis* for that theory might be, or how a rule is demonstrated, (besides an “_industry_ _standard_” thing).
> 
> And about what years was the industry standard started; about when did following the industry standard fall out of favor.
> 
> Who highjacked this nice project thread to discuss serial numbers stamping(!).



Look back to post #17 in this thread.


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## Mitt25 (Jun 29, 2021)

Lookin good!  Where did you get your tires and what size are they?


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## chiller662 (Jun 29, 2021)

26 1.75 is the tire I was trying to find an American made set but everyone near me was not able to get the white walls . I ended up getting Duro for now


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## chiller662 (Jul 3, 2021)

It's been a few days but thanks to Oilit it is now complete I still need to do some adjustments and polishing but it is 100%.


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 4, 2021)

chiller662 said:


> It's been a few days but thanks to Oilit it is now complete I still need to do some adjustments and polishing but it is 100%.
> 
> View attachment 1440578
> 
> View attachment 1440579



Good job Chiller. Your Roadmaster is looking REALLLY good. Nice to see you found all the missing bits. Enjoy your new ride. Razin...


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## chiller662 (Jul 4, 2021)

razinhellcustomz said:


> Good job Chiller. Your Roadmaster is looking REALLLY good. Nice to see you found all the missing bits. Enjoy your new ride. Razin...



Thanks once I finish cleaning it than it's on to my Jet Pilot


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## Rides4Fun (Jul 4, 2021)

Wow, you really did a nice job with that project and didn’t waste anytime getting it done!  Looks great!


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## chiller662 (Jul 4, 2021)

Rides4Fun said:


> Wow, you really did a nice job with that project and didn’t waste anytime getting it done!  Looks great!



Well without the cabe I wouldn't have been able to even know anything about the bike let alone find the parts I needed . And I work in a steel shop so cleaning and polishing metal I know lol


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 4, 2021)

chiller662 said:


> Thanks once I finish cleaning it than it's on to my Jet Pilot



I have a 1960 Roadmaster Jet Pilot. Mine is red with a red tank with white and gold trim. Post some pix if you get a chance. RideOn.. Razin...


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## chiller662 (Jul 4, 2021)

razinhellcustomz said:


> I have a 1960 Roadmaster Jet Pilot. Mine is red with a red tank with white and gold trim. Post some pix if you get a chance. RideOn.. Razin...



The next project


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 4, 2021)

chiller662 said:


> The next projectView attachment 1441357
> 
> View attachment 1441358
> 
> ...



Your's is almost identical to mine. Your rack is a little different and mine has the original white seat which i swapped out for a nicer red and white seat otherwise it could be my Jet Pilot's twin. Very COOOL old Roadmaster. RideOn.. Razin...


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## chiller662 (Jul 4, 2021)

razinhellcustomz said:


> Your's is almost identical to mine. Your rack is a little different and mine has the original white seat which i swapped out for a nicer red and white seat otherwise it could be my Jet Pilot's twin. Very COOOL old Roadmaster. RideOn.. Razin...



I just wish they remade the decals for the side of the tank mine are pretty bad lol


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 4, 2021)

chiller662 said:


> I just wish they remade the decals for the side of the tank mine are pretty bad lol



They do, just type in Jet pilot tank decals on fee bay and a guy out in Utah makes these decals. I bought 2 from this guy and are a dead ringer to the originals and their cheaper than you might think. Good luck.. Razin...


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## chiller662 (Jul 4, 2021)

razinhellcustomz said:


> They do, just type in Jet pilot tank decals on fee bay and a guy out in Utah makes these decals. I bought 2 from this guy and are a dead ringer to the originals and their cheaper than you might think. Good luck.. Razin...



These are the only ones I found if you saw the other style please link it to me


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 4, 2021)

chiller662 said:


> These are the only ones I found if you saw the other style please link it to me View attachment 1441375



These look different for some reason. let me take a look.


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## chiller662 (Jul 4, 2021)

razinhellcustomz said:


> These look different for some reason. let me take a look.



Mine looks like this


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 4, 2021)

chiller662 said:


> Mine looks like this View attachment 1441376



Yeah, mine are the same as yours. The guys name is Richard Holmes. that's all i can remember.


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## chiller662 (Jul 6, 2021)

I took her out for her first ride today and it drives like a dream. Two questions though what are you guys using to protect the chrome, and has anyone used bleach white on their grips to remove the yellowing if not what could I use?


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 6, 2021)

chiller662 said:


> I took her out for her first ride today and it drives like a dream. Two questions though what are you guys using to protect the chrome, and has anyone used bleach white on their grips to remove the yellowing if not what could I use?
> View attachment 1442263
> 
> View attachment 1442264
> ...



Turtle Wax Chrome polish and rust remover works well for removing rust and protecting the chrome.. I use WD-40 for the grips and even removes grease and grim from your wide whites too. Good stuff Maynard... Razin.


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## chiller662 (Jul 6, 2021)

razinhellcustomz said:


> Turtle Wax Chrome polish and rust remover works well for removing rust and protecting the chrome.. I use WD-40 for the grips and even removes grease and grim from your wide whites too. Good stuff Maynard... Razin.



The turtle wax is what I picked up and I removed most of the rust with aluminum foil and water


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## Oilit (Jul 7, 2021)

chiller662 said:


> The turtle wax is what I picked up and I removed most of the rust with aluminum foil and water



I think most commercial chrome polishes include some kind of wax to seal the surface, so I'd guess you're on the right track.


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## Archie Sturmer (Jul 7, 2021)

For grips, I have had limited luck with the white or ivory colors.  If the grips can be removed without damaging them, they can be soaked alternately in chlorine bleach or white vinegar.  The vinegar helps loosen any rust but can etch the vinyl as a reducing agent.  The bleach does not seem to harm poly vinyl chloride (pvc) grips yet seems to allow rust stains to bleed to the rest of the grip.  Scrubbing with a tooth brush inside and out after soaking seems to help. 

Some people might prefer the aged ivory looks over bright white new grips?


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## Ernbar (Dec 31, 2021)

I soaked some grungy white grips in undiluted Simple Green for a couple of days then used some liquid Barkeepers Friend and a soft toothbrush to get them white again.
As for the chrome parts I use Flitz to polish them.  If the chrome had any rust then I use 0000 steel wool and WD40, wipe the chrome clean, polish with Flitz then wipe on a light coating of boiled linseed oil and let it dry overnight. I did this in my 46 Rollfast chrome that had surface rust when I bought it October last year and the chrome looks spotless over a year later.


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## HARPO (Sep 13, 2022)

Anyone have an idea what the bike is worth now in this beautiful condition? First one I've seen that wasn't rusted out!!


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## chiller662 (Sep 13, 2022)

HARPO said:


> Anyone have an idea what the bike is worth now in this beautiful condition? First one I've seen that wasn't rusted out!!



One local to me in NJ sold for $575 about a year ago in close to the same shape as mine but as of today I have no idea I was debating on letting mine go due to other projects but I have not yet desided


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## Muji (Dec 5, 2022)

Anyone have any idea what years AMF used the Roadmaster “swirly” chainring versus the chainring with stars?


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## chiller662 (Dec 5, 2022)

Muji said:


> Anyone have any idea what years AMF used the Roadmaster “swirly” chainring versus the chainring with stars?



I assume that you mean like the one on my pleasureliner I have only seen them on 1956 and 1957 and the star ones were on 1960s amf bikes and the early 50s were the circle slots


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## chiller662 (Dec 5, 2022)

57s also came with this style


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## Muji (Dec 5, 2022)

Exactly like on your Pleasure Liner.  I’m looking at a AMF Shelby (Roadmaster) Skyliner.  It has a cantilever frame (so it is no earlier than 1958) with this “swirly” chainring.  It is a base model (no tank).  I just saw another 1960 Roadmaster, different model, on a thread in the CABE archives and it has the star chainring.  So I am thinking the one I am looking at is either a 1958 or 59; or maybe that’s too simple?


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## Muji (Dec 5, 2022)

Chil, what are “circle slots”?


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## Oilit (Dec 5, 2022)

Muji said:


> Exactly like on your Pleasure Liner.  I’m looking at a AMF Shelby (Roadmaster) Skyliner.  It has a cantilever frame (so it is no earlier than 1958) with this “swirly” chainring.  It is a base model (no tank).  I just saw another 1960 Roadmaster, different model, on a thread in the CABE archives and it has the star chainring.  So I am thinking the one I am looking at is either a 1958 or 59; or maybe that’s too simple?



I think AMF was using three different sprocket designs during this period. Three bikes, all from the 1959 catalog:


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## chiller662 (Dec 5, 2022)

Muji said:


> Chil, what are “circle slots”?



Early year luxury liners circle slots


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## chiller662 (Dec 5, 2022)

Muji said:


> Exactly like on your Pleasure Liner.  I’m looking at a AMF Shelby (Roadmaster) Skyliner.  It has a cantilever frame (so it is no earlier than 1958) with this “swirly” chainring.  It is a base model (no tank).  I just saw another 1960 Roadmaster, different model, on a thread in the CABE archives and it has the star chainring.  So I am thinking the one I am looking at is either a 1958 or 59; or maybe that’s too simple?



Also Oilit is pretty much the source for all things Shelby /roadmaster Amf


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## Muji (Dec 5, 2022)

Thanks, I thought that chainring was Murray?


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## Oilit (Dec 5, 2022)

chiller662 said:


> Early year luxury liners circle slotsView attachment 1746151



You know, I hadn't thought about it but you're right, they didn't use that design after the mid-'50's. They must have left it in Cleveland.


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## Oilit (Dec 5, 2022)

Muji said:


> Thanks, I thought that chainring was Murray?



Murray may have used something similar, but the one @chiller662 posted was used up to the mid-'50's by Roadmaster. Introduced by Cleveland Welding before AMF bought the company.


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## chiller662 (Dec 5, 2022)

Oilit said:


> You know, I hadn't thought about it but you're right, they didn't use that design after the mid-'50's. They must have left it in Cleveland.








I think I like the spiral better I only need two things left for the 53 to find a tail lamp assembly and the plug that goes under the front fork to mount the front fender to. There is just a entry whole unless I'm missing something lol


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## Muji (Dec 5, 2022)

Oilit… Being that you are the expert, I hope you don’t mind if I reach out in the future with some photos.  It is a pretty unremarkable bike that is in good condition for its age…rough but good…It is definitively of interest because we share similar qualities: we are of the same vintage and we are both pretty unremarkable!  When I saw it it spoke to me.  I went to my LBS to pick up a wheel and when I got there the shop was locked because the proprietor was running errands.  Outside was this Skyliner which attracted me due to it being a cantilever frame.  When the proprietor returned he told someone had abandoned it some time prior at his back door.  My read on that is it belonged to someone’s father/brother and were probably disposing of property in their estate and they didn’t have the heart to throw it away and put it here in hopes that it wouldn’t be trashed.  Anyway, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.  I was thinking about asking the proprietor if he wanted to sell it.  Anyway, let me know.  Thanks, Steve


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## Muji (Dec 5, 2022)

Chiller, I like your wood toolbox…I’m into wood toolboxes!


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## Oilit (Dec 5, 2022)

Muji said:


> Oilit… Being that you are the expert, I hope you don’t mind if I reach out in the future with some photos.  It is a pretty unremarkable bike that is in good condition for its age…rough but good…It is definitively of interest because we share similar qualities: we are of the same vintage and we are both pretty unremarkable!  When I saw it it spoke to me.  I went to my LBS to pick up a wheel and when I got there the shop was locked because the proprietor was running errands.  Outside was this Skyliner which attracted me due to it being a cantilever frame.  When the proprietor returned he told someone had abandoned it some time prior at his back door.  My read on that is it belonged to someone’s father/brother and were probably disposing of property in their estate and they didn’t have the heart to throw it away and put it here in hopes that it wouldn’t be trashed.  Anyway, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.  I was thinking about asking the proprietor if he wanted to sell it.  Anyway, let me know.  Thanks, Steve



Anything I know I'll be glad to share, but the AMF Shelbys just don't seem to have much documentation. Roadmaster catalogs turn up every once in a while, but finding Shelby catalogs is like looking for Sasquatch.


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## chiller662 (Dec 5, 2022)

Muji said:


> Chiller, I like your wood toolbox…I’m into wood toolboxes!



I made that like 20 years ago lol.  By the way are you sure it's not a Skyrider


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## Muji (Dec 5, 2022)

Oilit, I’m grateful for your assistance and your willingness to help.  Chiller, the one I am discussing is a Skyrider; sorry, at 65 years of age the brain is a little soft.


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## chiller662 (Dec 5, 2022)

Muji said:


> Oilit, I’m grateful for your assistance and your willingness to help.  Chiller, the one I am discussing is a Skyrider; sorry, at 65 years of age the brain is a little soft.



Is it the sky rider with white chain guard or the red one like this one


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## Muji (Dec 5, 2022)

I don’t have access to the bike at the moment, it is still at the LBS.  I’m not recalling exactly what the chainguard looks like; remember 65 year old soft brain.


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## Muji (Dec 5, 2022)

You got some nice stuff lying around.


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## chiller662 (Dec 5, 2022)

Muji said:


> You got some nice stuff lying around.



Parts for random projects lol


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## Muji (Dec 5, 2022)

I don’t recognize the one you’re holding, so I am going to assume it is the other.  Your red chainguard looks brand new.


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## Muji (Dec 5, 2022)

Nice stuff…


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## chiller662 (Dec 5, 2022)

Muji said:


> I don’t recognize the one you’re holding, so I am going to assume it is the other.  Your red chainguard looks brand new.



Yeah the one I was holding in the picture I picked up at a swap meet


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## Muji (Dec 5, 2022)

Is that color scheme on the bare Schwinn frame their color combination?  Or is it reverse, what is green was originally white and what is white was originally green?


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## chiller662 (Dec 5, 2022)

Muji said:


> Is that color scheme on the bare Schwinn frame their color combination?  Or is it reverse, what is green was originally white and what is white was originally green?



Someone spray painted it before I got it I tried to get it back to the original paint but it was to far gone so I repainted it reverse jewell green .

This is how I got it the bike was originally green but not reverse


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## Muji (Dec 5, 2022)

I really like your paint scheme.  Is that a Schwinn frame?  The Roadmaster chainring is throwing me.


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## razinhellcustomz (Dec 5, 2022)

chiller662 said:


> Early year luxury liners circle slotsView attachment 1746151



Wow, I've got one of these sprockets, but thought this was a Snyder style sprocket...


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## razinhellcustomz (Dec 5, 2022)

chiller662 said:


> I made that like 20 years ago lol.  By the way are you sure it's not a Skyrider



I have several Skyriders and all of mine except for one have the Starrider/Jet Pilot srockets...


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## Muji (Dec 5, 2022)

Hi Razin.  How many Skyriders do you have?  The one with the “swirl” (Roadmaster) chainring, do you have specific information on that?  I’m interested in the year of manufacture.


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## Muji (Dec 5, 2022)

BTW, I’m going to bed.  I’ll catch up with you later.


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## razinhellcustomz (Dec 5, 2022)

Muji said:


> Hi Razin.  How many Skyriders do you have?  The one with the “swirl” (Roadmaster) chainring, do you have specific information on that?  I’m interested in the year of manufacture.



I have 4 or 5, but most are complete and one is missing a front fender...


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## chiller662 (Dec 6, 2022)

Muji said:


> I really like your paint scheme.  Is that a Schwinn frame?  The Roadmaster chainring is throwing me.



Yes it is a 51 Schwinn  d-12 that had misc parts on it


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## Oilit (Dec 6, 2022)

razinhellcustomz said:


> Wow, I've got one of these sprockets, but thought this was a Snyder style sprocket...



It may be. I think I read in one of these threads that Roadmaster used one with 5 spokes, while Snyder? used one with 4. Similar but not the same.


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## Oilit (Dec 6, 2022)

Muji said:


> Oilit… Being that you are the expert, I hope you don’t mind if I reach out in the future with some photos.  It is a pretty unremarkable bike that is in good condition for its age…rough but good…It is definitively of interest because we share similar qualities: we are of the same vintage and we are both pretty unremarkable!  When I saw it it spoke to me.  I went to my LBS to pick up a wheel and when I got there the shop was locked because the proprietor was running errands.  Outside was this Skyliner which attracted me due to it being a cantilever frame.  When the proprietor returned he told someone had abandoned it some time prior at his back door.  My read on that is it belonged to someone’s father/brother and were probably disposing of property in their estate and they didn’t have the heart to throw it away and put it here in hopes that it wouldn’t be trashed.  Anyway, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.  I was thinking about asking the proprietor if he wanted to sell it.  Anyway, let me know.  Thanks, Steve



The stripped down versions are probably more practical as riders. All the tanks, racks, truss rods and other bric-a-brac probably impressed a 14 year old on the sales floor, but when he had to pedal it up hill with one gear, maybe not so much.


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## chiller662 (Dec 6, 2022)

Oilit said:


> The stripped down versions are probably more practical as riders. All the tanks, racks, truss rods and other bric-a-brac probably impressed a 14 year old on the sales floor, but when he had to pedal it up hill with one gear, maybe not so much.



And yet people still ride the phantoms at around 60 plus pounds


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## Oilit (Dec 6, 2022)

chiller662 said:


> And yet people still ride the phantoms at around 60 plus pounds



Sometimes it's all about high style and looking good!


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## chiller662 (Dec 6, 2022)

Oilit said:


> Sometimes it's all about high style and looking good!



Sometimes some people get tired of carrying a 60 plus pounds bicycle up a flight of stairs just to go for a ride. This is why I sold my phantom. I am some people lol


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## Oilit (Dec 7, 2022)

chiller662 said:


> Sometimes some people get tired of carrying a 60 plus pounds bicycle up a flight of stairs just to go for a ride. This is why I sold my phantom. I am some people lol



I've got one of the 2000 Cruiser Deluxe 7's with the California frames, looks like a Phantom but has a 7 speed Shimano hub. Now if I could just find one of these so I could have a front brake!








						Has anyone seen these with a handbrake? | All Things Schwinn
					

This is a 90s/2000s Schwinn Classic Deluxe 7. Made in Taiwan with Boulder Colorado production sticker. The most peculiar thing is the front handbrake. Can't find another with one on line or their catalog. It also has studs on the fork for the brake caliper. Any thoughts?




					thecabe.com


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