# Hiawatha train badge, Murry built, not Shelby!



## mrg (May 29, 2019)

( Sept 2020 ) Maybe I should have started a new thread but looking for another one of these Murry built ( not Shelby ) Hiawatha badge!  I tried to explain and is shown in this old thread.Thanks ) This is kinda hard to explain but the are a couple of versions of this badge, the one I need has a bigger bump around the top rivet, the A in Gambles is a A frame style and not the round top, the the G is also different and S is not slanted, H ( in Hiawatha ) is a little different and H does not touch the border on the left, last is a little mustache on the front of the train!, some of the pictures aren't very good but the top one and badge on right of 2nd pic is what I'm looking for.


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## spoker (May 29, 2019)

heres mine,paid $150 20 yrs ago,never been mounted,$100 shipped pm me if interested,its in the true colors the lime green inserts are a factory screw up,the hiawatha,miwakee riad never had any lime green


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## mrg (May 29, 2019)

Sorry, I have a few of those, I'm looking for the one that the H does not touch the border and the top left leg is curved and the lettering GAMBLE'S is different, bump on top taller also, I don't have a good pic just a old one of my bike before I owned it and one from here, I don't know if this is the difference but mine & the pic from here are Murry built and the one I'm using now and yours are off Shelby built Hiawatha's. The first picture is the one I need, I don't know how many different versions there were, the shadow of my old paint around the badge is a little different using the Shelby version. Thanks anyway.


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## mrg (May 29, 2019)

Wow, just found a few years old post I commented in for a girls Murry built Hiawatha that got parted out, sent him a message but don't know if he's still on here or by chance he has the badge but so far the 3 Murry built Hiawatha had a different badge than the Shelby version, you can really see the bigger bump on top and barely see the different H. I've seen Orange/Green in both versions but don't know what color mine was from my old pic.


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## spoker (May 29, 2019)

looks curved and not touching 2 me,but o would rather not sell to somone who really doesnt know what they want,been there have no interest in goin there again,startin to sound like a corvette site!!


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## mrg (May 29, 2019)

Sorry, as I said yours is the Shelby version that I already have, I know its kinda hard to understand but your H touches the border and an even easier thing is the size of the bump on top, I just bought this Murry version and it will do unless a nicer one comes up.


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## Pappy (May 29, 2019)

Try @barnyguey...he seems to deal a lot in head badges...he may be of help 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mrg (May 29, 2019)

Called him first, he is the go to guy for Schwinn and others but so far nobody knew there was a difference between Murry & Shelby built Hiawatha badges which I found out after noticing a shadow around using the wrong badge then investgating, if you didn't see the badges side by side it's hard to tell. I didn't realise I commented on a bike thread here 4 yrs ago that had the badge I need, It will do but still looking for a nicer one. a previous owner of my bike destroyed the badge removing the rivets, too many badges have been destroyed that way!


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## fordmike65 (May 31, 2019)

@mrg

Kinda odd that it has a Shelby guard. If not orignal, it's been on there a very long time.


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## rustjunkie (May 31, 2019)

good lookin out mark





never knew!
looks like a q&e way to tell the dif is the H and the font on GAMBLE'S


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## spoker (May 31, 2019)

must b a frustrating way to live!!


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## mrg (May 31, 2019)

A little research pays off, I got the correct Murray Hiawatha badge from a few year old post and its on its way from Minneapolis ( thanks @frank71 ) Mike that's the 4th Murry built Hiawatha with the same badge kinda confirming my theory of Shelby vs. Murry built badges ( nothings ever 100 % ), my new badge is a little worse for ware from rivet removal but I can touch it up or if someone comes up with a nicer one


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## SKPC (May 31, 2019)

Just wanted to throw some additional observations out there regarding this badge.  My Shelby built Gambles Hiawatha has what looks like the non-murray style badge. For reference, this is my Gambles Hiawatha as found with the early Shelby chainguard and badge, which I am pretty  sure are original. The "H" touches the border. Another thing I noticed that seems to have been missed so far is that the light beam coming from the train itself also is different.   On the Murray badge, the light is separated by a line and does not blend into or touch the border of the badge, same as the "H" .. On the Shelby badge (mine) the H and the beam both blend into or touch the badge border. Maybe this determines maker?...


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## mrg (May 31, 2019)

The beam! There are probably more differences, I’ll see when I get them side by side, all my other badges are off Shelby’s and no gaps to border.


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## SKPC (May 31, 2019)

Keep us posted on what you find mrg!


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## mrg (Jun 1, 2019)

Well I got the Murray/Hiawatha badge today, I usually don’t clean patina of a badge but this one was pretty dark and bent up with some scratches so I did some detailing. Side by side you can see a lot of differences from the Shelby/Hiawatha badge


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## mrg (Jun 1, 2019)

The profile now fits perfect as opposed to the Shelby/Hiawatha badge, Not sure about colors tho, I’ve seen in green or black with orange for Shelby, Murray so far only green with orange.  Was going to touch up the orange but it was an odd burnt orange I’d have to mix so we’ll see. It’s on the bike for now.


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## Jay81 (Sep 29, 2020)

spoker said:


> looks curved and not touching 2 me,but o would rather not sell to somone who really doesnt know what they want,been there have no interest in goin there again,startin to sound like a corvette site!!





spoker said:


> must b a frustrating way to live!!




Are you serious? He described exactly what he was looking for, and noted some of the differences between the two.
Post #16 above, shows the two variations side by side, and there are clearly many differences.
No reason to be offended that the one you have is not the one he was looking for.


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## mrg (Sep 29, 2020)

Maybe I should have started a new thread but looking for another one of these Murry built ( not Shelby ) Hiawatha badge!  I tried to explain and is shown in this old thread. also a couple more differences, the Murry has a "mustache" below the grill and second pic is how much bigger the bump around the top rivet is.


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## spoker (Oct 18, 2020)

simple just different vendor choices


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## mrg (Oct 23, 2020)

Simple except for finding another one, Murry used a different badge maker than Shelby for their Hiawatha badges, probably local to each ones factory but I need another one for another Murry/Hiawatha and they are not as common as the Shelby version. slightly different profile ( as shown in some previous pics ) so a outline shows on OG paint frame.


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## mrg (Feb 3, 2022)

Seems like the easiest way to tell the difference is in the word GAMBLE'S, the one I'm looking for has the A frame style A ( not round top ) and the S is straight up not angled, also has a little mustache!, the ONE ON THE RIGHT is what I'm looking for, the Murry version!


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## Archie Sturmer (May 23, 2022)

Noticed some differences in the letters in the word Hiawatha.  The dot for the “i” is closer to the “H”.  And the letters i, a, w, t, h, and a, all appear to have flat tops (versus angled). 
Also, the number of railroad ties shown in front and under the front of the train, as well as how the ties are separated.


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## mrg (May 23, 2022)

Ya, a lot of differences when you see them side by side but the most noticeable seems like the Gambles lettering and the mustache in the center of the train!, the big loop around the top river too!


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## mrg (Jul 3, 2022)

Still looking for another one of these Murry built Hiawatha badges!


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