# Unknown early Campagnolo Black barrel Hub



## Jesper (Sep 4, 2022)

Campy hub with black "anodized" (definitely not paint!) steel barrel and 36h alloy flanges. I do not have the original skewer for it but I assume it to be pre-'78, but I think it may be from the 50s-60s. No marks other than the early winged QR logo on the barrel. No marks on locknuts; not sure when hubs first had dated nuts. I thought it might be from the "Sport" group since the RD had that same finish on the pulley cage. In a catalog that dark cage finish is clearly shown in the drawing, but the hub is not drawn shaded in the same obvious manner .
The hub is used, but functions well and shows quality workmanship. The barrel has no rust, but the finish shows signs of "fading" a little. 
I don't have a rear hub of the same style; if anyone has one to sell or swap please contact me. Thanks!


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## juvela (Sep 4, 2022)

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the alloy flanges are simply press fit to the barrel without keying

a simple enough matter to separate them for refinishing/replating

possible barrel may have been stripped of its plating and subsequently treated with gun bluing

do not wish to assert that is what is had here; mentioned only a possibility

obvious Fratelli Brivio manufacture

shall look forward to reading what the enlightened have to contribute...


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## Schwinny (Sep 5, 2022)

I would point out that this hub has been laced at least twice previously. In opposite directions as evidenced by the spoke hole deformations. As would have been proper considering the pressures and metal fatigue.
I had this same issue with a set of Hardens I recently laced. They were cheaper by half because of this issue.
I'll mention what I did and why.

I flattened the flanges with a fine file to remove the raised, compressed areas around the holes. I then ever so slightly chamfered each hole with a round Dremel bit. I did this on each side of both flanges. This releases the surface tension built up there by being compressed. I then re-polished this area. Its really all that can be done to release the compression tension that could quite possibly turn into cracks after the next lacing.
The Hardens were high flange hubs so I also strung them in a cross four pattern to have the spokes pull from a slightly different direction than previous.
But... small flange hubs such as this one cant really be laced in a cross 4 pattern so that is not an option here. Cross two would not be a good choice either since the holes are much closer together on a small flange and the pull that has already happened from each side could result in a plug being pulled out between the holes.
I use the Hardens on a Wheelset intended for very light duty and display. Im just afraid they have already seen there glory days and deserve a light retirement.

Im kinda strange that way though, I see these old things as inanimate souls.


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## cyclingday (Sep 5, 2022)

These are the three piece hubs that really get my juices flowing.


They were actually considered to be a lesser offering from FB/Campagnolo, but I always thought they looked beautiful with that chrome axle housing and those perforated aluminum flanges.


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## juvela (Sep 5, 2022)

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side note of sorts -

at gatherings of vintage cycle & cycling enthusiasts in europe it is evidently common to see the barrels and flanges of quality three-piece hubs offered for sale separately

here is an image made by member    @non-fixie    at the italian Gaiole event of 2017





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one investigatory step which could be made would be to remove the flanges from the barrel so as to be able to examine the flange seats on the barrel

in me workshop have cut a piece of scrap wood to form a support for the flange when knocking out the barrel

it is likely they are yet polished chrome as they would not have gotten tarnished and plating removal would have slightly reduced their critical outside diameter


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## Schwinny (Sep 5, 2022)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> side note of sorts -
> 
> ...



Interesting....
I had a high flange three piece SA hub awhile back that I was going to use but found that one flange was cocked off a bit. I thought about putting it straight and trying it but was worried about going to all that work just to perhaps find out later that it would no longer hold still after being adjusted. Maybe different than pulling one straight off and back on though.
Too late now... its gone


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## Jesper (Sep 5, 2022)

Thanks for all the input! I do not plan on dismantling the hub so it may remain a mystery regarding what juvela stated.
It the hub had been dismamtled prior then it shows no signs of it and everything appears to be aligned and unmanipulated.
This was not an expensive part I guess due to being an odd part from my supplier and the wear at the spoke holes which is something I always check on old hubs.
I have done a similar treatment of the flange holes that Schwinny mentioned.

It does not appear to be chromed under the black from what I can tell, but who knows.

I have no plans for it right now except as an oddity since I would like to see if a rear unit rears it head out of the hub universe one day.
.


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## juvela (Sep 5, 2022)

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posted a link to this discussion over at BF and within a few minutes got a response from the foremost authority there on Italian fittings of this era

he wrote that it was obvious to him that the chrome had failed and someone went at the loose plating with a wire brush/wheel

this assessment fits right in with the heavy scratch marks visible in your excellent pictures on the alloy flanges

those marks are far too heavy/numerous to be ascribed to "normal wear and tear"

absence of Campag markings on the axle parts is likely due to the whole axle set being replaced by the wielder of the wire brush/wheel

since you will not be disassembling it reckon it shall simply remain an oddity


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## Jesper (Sep 5, 2022)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> posted a link to this discussion over at BF and within a few minutes got a response from the foremost authority there on Italian fittings of this era
> 
> ...



I will take a position of neither agreeing or disagreeing since I have no idea. I would assume that the hub would have needed to be dismantled in order to finish the barrel whether factory or custom. Again, I am ignorant in this area. I will say that the hub does NOT appear to have been brushed (manually or power tool). There certainly are marks from it being 60-70 years old and probably having been serviced for 25% or more of those years.  Though the marks appear "heavy" they really aren't; I do a little photo manipulation.


Maybe I will dismantle at some future time to get more evidence of its true identity. I have not even pulled the axle apart to inspect bearings since it turns smoothly without perceptible end play. I assume the cones may have been replaced, or entire axle; who knows.


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## ccdc.1 (Sep 24, 2022)

Being the one that sold that hub to Jesper, I will state from my close inspection of this hub, the barrel was never chromed. It came to me in the very good condition that it still is in today. If you look at all the old catalogs, there are a few different part numbers for similar hubs, suggesting there might have been a Sport or other model below the Gran Sport and above the full steel  versions. The Campagnolo stamping is the early feathered version. The dull finish on the flanges is too consistent for it to be wire-wheeled, and the black finish on the barrel suggest a downmarket model, not unlike the various Turismo derailleur versions that had black oxide finishes. I had this hub for quite awhile hoping for a rear to show up, but no luck, but I do hope one shows up for Jesper.


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## Schwinny (Sep 24, 2022)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> posted a link to this discussion over at BF and within a few minutes got a response from the foremost authority there on Italian fittings of this era
> 
> ...



I have another possible extension for the "BF" acronym. I know nothing about this Campy hub ID, but if info came from there from an "expert," I'd take it with salt.
I've seen you over there in the same capacity as here and I appreciate that. But there are people over there that are.... Hmmm... Lost in the minutia of self?... Shall we say?
MANY of them. A controlling minority of self absorbed clowns.....
Ok, enuf.


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## labile (Oct 18, 2022)

cyclingday said:


> These are the three piece hubs that really get my juices flowing.View attachment 1691080
> They were actually considered to be a lesser offering from FB/Campagnolo, but I always thought they looked beautiful with that chrome axle housing and those perforated aluminum flanges.



These were top high end hubs from FB/Campagnolo till the introduction of Campagnolo Record hubset in 1958


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## labile (Oct 18, 2022)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> posted a link to this discussion over at BF and within a few minutes got a response from the foremost authority there on Italian fittings of this era
> 
> ...



you are right. I've seen dozens of 3 piece Campagnolo hubs which have been heavily "clean" with wire brush or similar.


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