# Miami Mfg. Hudson Help



## John Haeberle (Jun 27, 2020)

Hi All....I recently bought this great Miami built Hudson which I am doing a thorough cleaning and servicing.  As you can see, everything on the bike was painted gray.  Assuming this is a mid-teens Hudson, I wonder if it may be WWI....maybe somehow related to the Navy?  Lakehurst Naval Base (where the Hindenburg went down) is only a few miles from where this was purchased.  Anybody have any thoughts on this? I have included a pic of the serial number.
To finish the project, I want to replace incorrect parts with correct, or at the very least, period correct parts.  There is so little documentation about the Hudson bicycles.   If anyone has any input with regards to the following, or has any period correct parts that you wish to sell, please let me know.  Looking for stem, grips (Miami referred to Boy Scout grips or Keystone rubber grips), drop stand with ears, 28" - 36 hole wood wheel, front hub, double butted 12 1/16" spokes. 
Thanks...John


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## Archie Sturmer (Jun 27, 2020)

Nice diamond frame bike. 
The basket as well as the fender braces look peculiar, in a cool way; (and of course the front wheel is a bit small). 
The Fauber chain ring sprocket is one of those with 5 round holes, versus 1 drive pin hole and 4 diamonds.


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## fordsnake (Jun 29, 2020)

Gee, this one brings back memories. My father worked at the US Naval Base in Alameda, CA. He was a civilian airplane mechanic and we lived in spitting distance off the base. I recalled as a youngster, he would peddle home for lunch, riding one a “gray” bike (obviously a much later model). But I'm guessing over the years the principles didn't change much for military bikes. The bikes were used as courier cycles for base workers and navy men to shuttle around on the base,  or to trek parts around the base or from hanger to the hangers. I also recalled seeing sailors riding them on board the aircraft carriers moored at the Naval station. The one thing, I clearly remember…that these bikes were unadorned...in other words –nothing special to look at! They were sprayed that banal gray color, and all its brightwork was gray as well; head badge, handlebars, even the front baskets were painted gray! I also recollect crude numbers stenciled somewhere on the frame or its fenders ( I guess to track or monitor the bikes whereabouts)? Also, stenciled somewhere on the bike, “Property of the U.S. Government” 

You should post your questions on the CABE’S Military Bicycle forum or try http://www.theliberator.be/militarybicycles.htm or http://www.bergerwerke.com/historyG519.html The last two links are more focused on Army bikes…but you never know, there may be a few old sea dogs out there who collect and restore navy bikes?

Best, Carlton


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## Archie Sturmer (Jun 29, 2020)

I recall a shipyard worker getting in some kind of trouble, for painting his entire house exterior, (which everyone could see), haze gray.


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## fordsnake (Jun 29, 2020)

Archie Sturmer said:


> The Fauber chain ring sprocket is one of those with 5 round holes, versus 1 drive pin hole and 4 diamonds.




I love discovery and factoids...for my edification, can you share more information about Fauber's 5 hole chainring...I'm not familiar with this design


*.
John, perhaps you can check the above *_*set up and see if there's any stampings on the sprocket and crank?*_


The early Fauber’s were stamped and the sprocket cutouts were Crowns & Diamonds, plus the Fauber set up offered a proprietary one - piece crank.






Over the years, production of the 4-pin hanger was discontinued and the chainring morphed into pseudo Hearts and Diamonds








I believe several manufacturers copied the Fauber sprocket designs. Hence, Fauber stamping their products and running ads about patent infringements and their designs!



I always thought this Fauber's stamping was a lighting bolt?


No way! Its a one-piece crank




Perhaps John's sprocket is a Great Western?


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## Archie Sturmer (Jun 29, 2020)

Yes, GWM Fauber, perhaps pre-war teens.
Looks like another one sold by a member; (from Pandora Ohio?); B-serial number prefix, 45-mm threaded BB, and 1913 patent frame (1916?).



Note that the holes are of different offsets from the crank shaft, maybe different diameters too(?); not likely that equally spaced diamonds were re-drilled or reamed out.
Looks like John's sprocket was used with a Miami crank (small pin, wider offset than most).
It would be interesting to ID each of those 5 holes:  GWM; Miami; Excelsior(?); Emblem(?); and another?



What years:
I forget in what other post the year that GWM Indiana started manufacturing and advertising Fauber (was Chicago) parts. Perhaps they started with furnished Fauber tools (dies), and "had to do something" to make the holes in the boiler-plate steel sprockets match their own foundry-forged cranks -- as well as other manufacturer's cranks.
I forget in what other post the year that Miami advertised that they made their own bottom bracket hangers, cranks and sprockets.

I generally refer to GWM-built Fauber cranks and sprockets as plain Fauber's (stamped or not), just because I only see the ToC ones in old ad/catalog pictures.


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## Freqman1 (Jun 30, 2020)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Yes, GWM Fauber, perhaps pre-war teens.
> Looks like another one sold by a member; (from Pandora Ohio?); B-serial number prefix, 45-mm threaded BB, and 1913 patent frame (1916?).
> View attachment 1220775
> Note that the holes are of different offsets from the crank shaft, maybe different diameters too(?); not likely that equally spaced diamonds were re-drilled or reamed out.
> ...



I think it is about '15 when the lit says Miami made their own parts but fairly certain these were still made off the Fauber patent. A lot of mfrs did this by paying the patent holder a fee and producing like parts. V/r Shawn


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## New Mexico Brant (Jun 30, 2020)

John Haeberle said:


> Looking for stem, grips (Miami referred to Boy Scout grips or Keystone rubber grips)



John, 
@Jesse McCauley just bought a group of NOS nickel plated teens/20's period stems that would be correct for this bike; he likely can help you out with a wheel as well.  Keystone and Boyscout grips are the rarest parts that bike requires, "hens teeth" status.  Marty @cyclingday was speaking to @rideahiggins to have the boy scout type remade; has that project got off the ground guys?  It would be great to have the Keystone grips remade.  I have never seen any available.  I own a set of bars that just have fragments of these grips.

Nice project, good luck with it!

Kindly, Brant


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## Jesse McCauley (Jun 30, 2020)

Killer bike that I know well! I many times considered buying it myself.

I do have a perfect stem for the job. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## John Haeberle (Jun 30, 2020)

fordsnake said:


> Gee, this one brings back memories. My father worked at the US Naval Base in Alameda, CA. He was a civilian airplane mechanic and we lived in spitting distance off the base. I recalled as a youngster, he would peddle home for lunch, riding one a “gray” bike (obviously a much later model). But I'm guessing over the years the principles didn't change much for military bikes. The bikes were used as courier cycles for base workers and navy men to shuttle around on the base,  or to trek parts around the base or from hanger to the hangers. I also recalled seeing sailors riding them on board the aircraft carriers moored at the Naval station. The one thing, I clearly remember…that these bikes were unadorned...in other words –nothing special to look at! They were sprayed that banal gray color, and all its brightwork was gray as well; head badge, handlebars, even the front baskets were painted gray! I also recollect crude numbers stenciled somewhere on the frame or its fenders ( I guess to track or monitor the bikes whereabouts)? Also, stenciled somewhere on the bike, “Property of the U.S. Government”
> 
> You should post your questions on the CABE’S Military Bicycle forum or try http://www.theliberator.be/militarybicycles.htm or http://www.bergerwerke.com/historyG519.html The last two links are more focused on Army bikes…but you never know, there may be a few old sea dogs out there who collect and restore navy bikes?
> 
> Best, Carlton



I had a feeling it was a messenger bike used around the base, with the basket that was rigged up on it.  That's very interesting that they were also used as transportation on the aircraft carriers.  I really enjoy researching the history of all the bikes that I've owned.  This one is especially interesting being that it was possibly military related, but also because of it being a Miami built bike.


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## John Haeberle (Jun 30, 2020)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Yes, GWM Fauber, perhaps pre-war teens.
> Looks like another one sold by a member; (from Pandora Ohio?); B-serial number prefix, 45-mm threaded BB, and 1913 patent frame (1916?).
> View attachment 1220775
> Note that the holes are of different offsets from the crank shaft, maybe different diameters too(?); not likely that equally spaced diamonds were re-drilled or reamed out.
> ...



Thanks for the great info.  Yes, the 5 holes are all offset at different spacings from the crank, ranging from +/-.610" up to +/-1.215".  Four of the holes are +/-.377" i.d., the large hole +/-.430".  There is no stamping on the crank or the sproket.


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## John Haeberle (Jun 30, 2020)

New Mexico Brant said:


> John,
> @Jesse McCauley just bought a group of NOS nickel plated teens/20's period stems that would be correct for this bike; he likely can help you out with a wheel as well.  Keystone and Boyscout grips are the rarest parts that bike requires, "hens teeth" status.  Marty @cyclingday was speaking to @rideahiggins to have the boy scout type remade; has that project got off the ground guys?  It would be great to have the Keystone grips remade.  I have never seen any available.  I own a set of bars that just have fragments of these grips.
> 
> Nice project, good luck with it!
> ...



Hey Brant...thanks for the input.  Hope you're doing well.  If you get a direct message about grips, please let me know.  I'll touch base with @JesseMcCauley. 
John


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## John Haeberle (Jun 30, 2020)

Jesse McCauley said:


> Killer bike that I know well! I many times considered buying it myself.
> 
> I do have a perfect stem for the job.
> 
> ...



Thanks....it is a great bike.  I will send you a PM about the stem.
John


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## Jesse McCauley (Jul 1, 2020)

Went through my stash, I have a very nice 36 hole Corbin front hourglass hub that is likely intune with the age of the bike.
It is actually new old stock as well in the box but it wasn't in the best conditions so it has lost a bit of plating.
Do you happen to have a cell phone I can send pictures to? the tapatalk app has cut me off from sending more pics this month

If you do, my cell is 8043662609

Curious about the profile of the wood rim that you have? I have some solo wood rims but I want to be sure the profile is a match, there are quite a few options.

Best,
Jesse


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## Freqman1 (Jul 1, 2020)

Jesse McCauley said:


> Went through my stash, I have a very nice 36 hole Corbin front hourglass hub that is likely intune with the age of the bike.
> It is actually new old stock as well in the box but it wasn't in the best conditions so it has lost a bit of plating.
> Do you happen to have a cell phone I can send pictures to? the tapatalk app has cut me off from sending more pics this month, wants me to upgrade.
> 
> ...



The Miami front hub does have a hourglass profile but isn't Corbin. I'm sure it was probably made off someones patent but is a Miami made piece. V/r Shawn


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## Jesse McCauley (Jul 1, 2020)

The Miami proprietary hub is pretty distinct, there is an added contour I think compared to the Corbin hourglass but a very close stand in.


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## Kansan (Jul 1, 2020)

Does someone have a good picture they can post of the Miami hub? Maybe the Corbin also.........Thx.


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## fordsnake (Jul 1, 2020)

Great input...thanks for sharing.


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## SKPC (Nov 11, 2021)

Bump this _Crank Arm_ and_ Ring _question...... What IS the actual drive pin spacing distance c/l of crank center and c/l of drive pin on this specific unidentified One Piece ARM?  I would guess by the looks it is not 2" spacing....Hmmm...


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## Archie Sturmer (Nov 11, 2021)

I have only seen a couple of those on the CABE; it’s more helpful when found on an actual bike.  Another one:








						Fauber 5 hole Chainring | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

I got this a while ago for a project and did not end  up using.. It has been nickel plated.. What years and what  bikes was this used on? Was it made by Fauber?




					thecabe.com
				




On another thread, (perhaps the Miami chain ring one?), is another picture of what looks like a 5-arm Fauber chain ring sprocket, kind of like this one:








						From parts Unknown | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					






					thecabe.com


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## John Haeberle (Feb 6, 2022)

Follow up....finally able to finish the Miami built Hudson.  Very happy with the results.  Thank you Bob Strucel, Brant Mackley, Jesse McCauley and @Rusty72 for advice and hard to find parts.


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## Archie Sturmer (Feb 6, 2022)

It is interesting that Hudson Michigan once owned the D&J patent for complex bottom bracket crank hangers, until a big flood followed by acquisition by Miami; and this example of a Miami-built Hudson uses a Fauber bottom bracket crank hanger.

Makes one wonder if or when Miami might have discontinued some of its various parts offerings prior to the company itself being acquired by Westfield.


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