# phantom front caliper brakes



## spoker (Dec 12, 2022)

heres a pic of the accesiory front calper brakes on a phantom,set screws onthe brackets on the fork legs


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## Risk Man (Dec 12, 2022)

spoker said:


> heres a pic of the accesiory front calper brakes on a phantom,set screws onthe brackets on the fork legs
> 
> View attachment 1750092



What is the availability of these "accessory" brakes?  Rare? Expensive?    Thanks,
Dennis


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## GTs58 (Dec 12, 2022)

Risk Man said:


> What is the availability of these "accessory" breaks?  Rare? Expensive?    Thanks,
> Dennis



That’s a rim brake. And some people want 100 bucks for them.


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## phantom (Dec 12, 2022)

Risk Man said:


> What is the availability of these "accessory" breaks?  Rare? Expensive?    Thanks,
> Dennis



Yes and Yes


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## Risk Man (Dec 12, 2022)

Understood. That is what I have seen from some searching on the forum. I don't have a front brake on my J motor Whizzer build I bought last year and working on now which is on a 24 inch "phantom" frame and heavy spoked S2 Rims.  I was thinking this might be an alternative to redoing the front wheel with a drum brake. That would be the best route of course, but thinking something short term.


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## Jon Olson (Dec 12, 2022)

I have the brake on my 1950 Schwinn Phantom and it works great!


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## fattyre (Dec 12, 2022)

Risk Man said:


> I was thinking this might be an alternative to redoing the front wheel with a drum brake. That would be the best route of course, but thinking something short term.



I’ll disagree with them working great. 

Terrible Blake’s if you’re looking for stopping power.  Especially on springers with tubular fork legs.  The brakes themselves can rotate under heavy lever pressure.


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## Freqman1 (Dec 12, 2022)

I guess it depends on what you consider expensive. Compared to a first gen Schwinn Forebrake and Shorty lever these are pocket change. I've seen more than a few sets so I wouldn't say exactly rare either. Personally I would not put these on any ballooner--just clutters things up and doesn't look good IMO.


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## spoker (Dec 15, 2022)

fattyre said:


> I’ll disagree with them working great.
> 
> Terrible Blake’s if you’re looking for stopping power.  Especially on springers with tubular fork legs.  The brakes themselves can rotate under heavy lever pressure.



do you have them on your bike?i have them and they work great,some ppl pl put the newer orange brake pas on them that are made for middle and light weight bikes,the correct pads are black and made for stopping heavweight bikes,kool brakes,every one has front drum brakes,their as commom as cookie cutter comaros


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## juvela (Dec 15, 2022)

-----

clamp-on cantilever brakes go back to the 19th century

they were moderately common on British and French cycles during the interwar period

here is a model from Resilion of the UK which launched during the 1920's -










			VeloBase.com - Component: Resilion The "Cantilever" Brake
		



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## Freqman1 (Dec 15, 2022)

I'll take a Forebrake any day!


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## phantom (Dec 15, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> I'll take a Forebrake any day!



Yeah I would agree most of the time. Most forebrakes are about five times the price of this setup. So, on a $300 dollar or so bike this could be the ticket.


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## 1817cent (Dec 15, 2022)

I am in the camp that they are a poor choice if you have a springer fork.  They lack stopping power and add too much "bounce" for me.


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## phantom (Dec 15, 2022)

1817cent said:


> I am in the camp that they are a poor choice if you have a springer fork.  They lack stopping power and add too much "bounce" for me.



I am never on a bike that is rolling more than about 7 mph. For me it's just a cool accessory like a light or a speedometer that I have on bikes that are purely cosmetics.


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## Rivnut (Dec 16, 2022)

@Risk Man For the brakes on a Whizzer you could incorporate disk brakes, both front and rear.  Not original, but they would stop you.


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## SirMike1983 (Dec 16, 2022)

Fork add-on brakes depend a great deal on how robust the mounting clamps/brackets are made and how tightly they fit to the fork. Look carefully at the mounting before relying on them. The sign of bad or ill-fitting add-on brakes will be that they buckle forward under load or shift in-out with use. I have used a few different types of add-on brakes over the years and the universal with them is you need to be careful of your mounting set up and do a little testing before really relying on them. The same is true of standard calipers or drums but the aftermarket nature of the add-on brakes means you really have to be careful about proper fit.


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## fattyre (Dec 16, 2022)

spoker said:


> do you have them on your bike?



I have owned and ridden them in the past. I installed an NOS in the box set that I had on a Panther for a while. Between the lack of power and scuffing of the rim sidewalls is why I ultimately sold them.   Changed the pads to modern ones after a while but then they looked really out of place.  The other bike that had them was a pitina monster and they honestly had no hope of ever performing like they would have new.   Rusty cables, rusty pivots etc.


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## Risk Man (Dec 16, 2022)

1817cent said:


> I am in the camp that they are a poor choice if you have a springer fork.  They lack stopping power and add too much "bounce" for me.






Rivnut said:


> @Risk Man For the brakes on a Whizzer you could incorporate disk brakes, both front and rear.  Not original, but they would stop you.



I have disc brakes on my new 2 cylinder engine motor bike builds. But not sure how to add a disk to these old S-2 hubs front or rear? Then the other challenge (which i have done with custom brackets on beach cruiser 2 stroke builds) is mounting the disc calipers. Of course the tabs could be welded on, but I am still stuck in my master woodworker's shop mode since starting on the bikes a year ago and have not gotten to welding yet!  Thanks for the suggestions.


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## Jon Olson (Dec 16, 2022)

If you use Schwinn caliper brakes be careful to use the right brackets. The bracket on the right is for springer tubular  fork and has a set screw to help prevent rotation.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Dec 16, 2022)

one if not all of the original Mt. Tam downhill Klunkers in the Marin Museum of Bicycling have these brakes on them. I put a set on my 41 Schwinn to be cool like Joe Breeze and his '41 that is in the museum. mine have original hard as rocks pads and I just bolted them on and made no adjustments, so performance is marginal. 

there is a lot of monkey motion in the cables the way Schwinn put them together. way too much housing. I have seen these brakes set up more like a older mountain bike with housings only from the brake lever to a mount on the stem, I am sure that works much better. 

some day I will fiddle with them an replace the pads to get them more functional. mostly I put then on to look cool.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Dec 16, 2022)

this was a nice set, I don' think I got $100 for them.  I saw a set with a lever go for $100 or so here a while back. 

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/50s-schwinn-bolt-on-rim-brakes.204113/


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## spoker (Dec 16, 2022)

bycyle bonrs had some of the corret black shoes,the red ones for the lighter bikes dont work well


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## BFGforme (Dec 19, 2022)

I have a nice set of these! Shoot me a pm if interested…


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## GTs58 (Dec 19, 2022)

spoker said:


> bycyle bonrs had some of the corret black shoes,the red ones for the lighter bikes dont work well



Any brake pad no matter what color it is, is going to be a piece of crap if it’s 50 years old.


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## spoker (Dec 19, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> Any brake pad no matter what color it is, is going to be a piece of crap if it’s 50 years old.



really?and what did u use to deremin that?i get tired ok ppl making statements on just something the thought up?


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Dec 19, 2022)

spoker said:


> really?and what did u use to deremin that?i get tired ok ppl making statements on just something the thought up?



@GTs58 just comes here and makes stuff up. his ongoing joke is that Schwinn put the dates on some cranks so people like me take our bikes apart to see what year it is.  he even makes up his own words like "electroforged" and "fillet-brazed". he is not to be trusted with Schwinn specs and history. 🙂


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Dec 20, 2022)

spoker said:


> ?and what did u use to deremin that



Experience


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## Freqman1 (Dec 20, 2022)

spoker said:


> really?and what did u use to deremin that?i get tired ok ppl making statements on just something the thought up?



There is a reason they date code auto tires. Rubber deteriorates over time even if it is not used. I've tried using 60 year old NOS pads and they sucked.


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## SirMike1983 (Dec 20, 2022)

My replacement rate for old brake pads is probably 90% or so.

After you properly set up your brakes, if the pads still squeal or skip or they don't grab well, there are a couple things you can try. A little bit of heat and filing to a fresh and beveled surface sometimes will bring old pads back.

Often (though not always) the pads are too dried out or are deformed, or too worn. Yes, the pads dry out, but equally a problem, I find is that the original owners would often run the pads out-of-adjustment for long enough to mangle them. They're a "wear item".

I will say the last bike I rebuilt was a 1968 Raleigh Sports where some resurfacing brought back the original pads, and they work as well as a new pad. I've had a couple others with old pads that either just survived really well, or could be brought back with a little attention. But I would say that's a 10% minority of the pad sets I've had. Most of the time they're either dried out, mangled, or both.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Dec 20, 2022)

here's a nice set for big bucks.. blade fork.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266050022684?campid=5335809022


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## cyclingday (Dec 20, 2022)

Wow!
For a thread that started out with a fairly benign topic, this sure has devolved into something much more interesting.
I’m loving it!
No insults or slights against anyone’s intelligence, but my experience with the topic of discussion, is that these accessory brake kits work about as well as can be expected, as long as the right parts are used for the right application.
Any rim brake being used on a chrome steel rim, is going to be marginal at best, but with new brake pads and a fresh cable that’s been well lubed, you’ll get a fairly decent auxiliary brake.
That’s all they were ever intended to be.
Just something extra, for the guy who’s bike didn’t come with a front brake.


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## Freqman1 (Dec 20, 2022)

spoker said:


> 8th grade is a high as they go in ga,look who they voted for



So the three master's degrees I have don't count?


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## GTs58 (Dec 20, 2022)

I guess common sense is not going to work in this thread.


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## cyclingday (Dec 20, 2022)

This type of clamp on, center pull, cantilever brake for Schwinn, can be traced back to their introduction of a European/Continental style of Sports Touring line of bikes aimed at the adult market.







This type of brake was only used in 1938/39 
By 1940 they switched over to the more universally accepted single pivot, side pull, caliper type rim brake.
So, it is interesting that they would go back to offering another version of the clamp on, center pull, cantilever type rim brake on the balloon tire line in 1949.
Once again, it was a fairly short lived, but did provide an option for someone looking to retrofit their bike without any serious disassembly being required.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Dec 20, 2022)

posted this set in the classifieds a few days back. 









						Schwinn fork mount bolt on brakes, for tubular fork | Sell - Trade: Bicycle Parts, Accessories, Ephemera
					

heres a set of Schwinn fork mount accessory brakes for the Springer or tubular forks. no lever. no more cover on the cable housings. some new non original hardware.  blade forks take a different bracket.  had to disassemble them to fit in the USPS $10.40 flat rate box. no assembly instructions...




					thecabe.com


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## SirMike1983 (Dec 20, 2022)

There was for many years, a kind of low-level market for add-on brakes. The Philco is probably the most common in the US today, though they were made in England. I've seen fewer of the Schwinn types than the Philco type. The Webb cantilever type was originally English, and there's the Resilion cantilever type (both less commonly seen here than the Philco, and both very cool accessories to have if you can find them). There were also rear-mounted add-on brakes for the seat stays with smaller clamps. One could buy an add-on Philco set of two brakes as well.

As one of the above posts noted, they're all capable of fair performance, but you're still always limited by a chrome steel rim and by any weakness in the mounting brackets, studs, etc. My experience is they tend to flex a bit more than a properly adjusted and cleaned caliper. They work sufficiently well when combined with another brake, be it a coaster or another hand brake.

Philco front on a pre-war Westfield Sports Roadster





Brakes are akin to a religious topic among cyclists. You'll get one person who swears by their life they would never rely on a side-pull caliper and the next one will say he's used side-pulls for years and it's fine. One will say you need a front brake coupled with a coaster brake to be safe and another will say he's ridden 40 years with just coasters and nothing bad has happened to him. There are no atheists when the brakes need to work and the choices are stopping or a broken neck.


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## Oilit (Dec 21, 2022)

SirMike1983 said:


> There was for many years, a kind of low-level market for add-on brakes. The Philco is probably the most common in the US today, though they were made in England. I've seen fewer of the Schwinn types than the Philco type. The Webb cantilever type was originally English, and there's the Resilion cantilever type (both less commonly seen here than the Philco, and both very cool accessories to have if you can find them). There were also rear-mounted add-on brakes for the seat stays with smaller clamps. One could buy an add-on Philco set of two brakes as well.
> 
> As one of the above posts noted, they're all capable of fair performance, but you're still always limited by a chrome steel rim and by any weakness in the mounting brackets, studs, etc. My experience is they tend to flex a bit more than a properly adjusted and cleaned caliper. They work sufficiently well when combined with another brake, be it a coaster or another hand brake.
> 
> ...



And let's not even mention what happens when they get wet! Talk about pucker factor!


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