# 19teens ivers johnson  arch bar nickel(crome?) plated frame bike



## redline1968 (May 6, 2013)

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## fat tire trader (May 6, 2013)

There should be another serial # on the seat tube. The general consensus is that the badge with the pat. on it is 1921 or newer.


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## pelletman (May 6, 2013)

Very late bike, 1940 or 41 if that BB SN is correct.  Usually the later bikes SN are on the seat post tube


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## fatbike (May 6, 2013)

You got ansi and decided you just had to find something good huh? Sweet bike... Now Mark you have made me sick.  Do not know much about Iver J.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (May 6, 2013)

Welcome to the club Mark.
Find a large commercial buffing machine and get it sparkling! :^-)


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## redline1968 (May 6, 2013)

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## Iverider (May 6, 2013)

Is it Nickel or Chrome? My 1936 catalog states that frames were available with a Chromium head tube and fork. Earlier bikes would have been Nickel plated of course (not sure what date the first chrome plating was done on Ivers. 

Could have been a trainee stamping serial numbers that day, or someone hired away from the Columbia MFG., Co.

Early Ivers had bottom bracket serial numbers but lots of other things on your bike point to a later model. Badge is post 1921. As far as the entire bike being plated, it could be they just dunked the whole thing and then painted everything but the head tube. I posted a Nickel plated Iver in the Solid and Stolid thread that was on eBay months ago. I don't know if it sold but it was pretty cool looking. Be sure to post photos of your bike in that thread for longevity (it's in my sig line)


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (May 6, 2013)

Possibly the stamp was filled and buffed smooth because of the plating.


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## thehugheseum (May 6, 2013)

i have often wondered if the parts were plated then painted over plating


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## redline1968 (May 6, 2013)

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## thehugheseum (May 6, 2013)

kickass........my only concern is are you scraping original paint off of a bike that is pretty old because you know or are finding plating under it?


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## redline1968 (May 6, 2013)

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## rustyspoke66 (May 6, 2013)

My Napoleon is completely nickle plated with paint over the nickle. Of course most of the paint is already gone but They basically left the head tube, fork crown, fork tips, seat tube/seat stay/top tube junction, seat stay crown, chain stay crown and rear drop outs in nickle with black paint. I haven't found any signs of pin striping. I think your bike was original paint over nickle and possibly shouldn't have fenders at all. Cool bike, of course now that you scraped the paint off you will have to restore it.


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## fat tire trader (May 6, 2013)

Iver did offer models with plated head tubes. Most, maybe all of the bikes that I have seen that had parts of the frame plated and parts painted have been entirely plated and then painted over certain areas. In the case of an Iver, that would mean the entire frame except for the head tube. The areas that are meant to be painted over, are not polished before plating, You may be removing original paint. If part of the plating glows and part is dull, you will know what I am talking about. Polishing, like Giovanni is suggesting will not work. The tubes need to be polished before and between coats in the plating process.


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## Iverider (May 6, 2013)

As far as the 1950s or 60s comment, Iver stopped making bikes during ww2 and never started cause guns r better.


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## redline1968 (May 6, 2013)

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## redline1968 (May 6, 2013)

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## filmonger (May 7, 2013)

*RE: Iver construstion*

I think this 1926 Iver Ad - might shed some light onto Iver frame construction.....


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## Iverider (May 7, 2013)

Ha... I don't think that qualifies as idiocy. Someone told me once that Iverson and Iver Johnson were the same company. When I questioned them for proof or reasoning I think the answer was ridiculous. Arch Truss Drag stripper anyone?

I could barely read the ad, but it says "all the nickel plating goes over copper" So as late as 1926 they were still Nickeling bikes. Who's got a 1927 ad? 

The 1936 Catalog references Chromium plated head tubes on their racers, so there's a 10 year span to figure out when they switched. I would bet there are some out there who already know this. Bill Smith more than likely.

As far as having an Olympic racer, that would be awesome, but with mass production I would bet they dipped the whole frame and then painted over it. I believe these were all dip brazed as well. I remember reading that in a catalog but can't remember what year.


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## Iverider (May 7, 2013)

*Dip Brazing.*





Found it! 1914 catalog excerpt.


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## pelletman (May 7, 2013)

I don't think that bike is a special racer, and they would have been using chrome if that bike is as new as I think it is 40/41..  Of course I have been wrong before.


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## fat tire trader (May 7, 2013)

redline1968 said:


> i found it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  There is some info on a special racer for the olympics that was totally nickel plated!!!!!! Im in total shock!!!!! This fits it perfectly. I cant believe it........




It is not a Special Racer. A Special Racer would have had a Chater Lea crankset.


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## pelletman (May 7, 2013)

fat tire trader said:


> It is not a Special Racer. A Special Racer would have had a Chater Lea crankset.




I don't think that is entirely true...


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## filmonger (May 7, 2013)

*RE: Iver construction*

You a very lucky man to have such a bicycle - I would consult Bill Smith on the Wheelman's site - he is a true blue Iver expert. My guess is the odds are about as good as winning the lotto - in finding an olympic version....this said " it could be you!!! " and people win the lotto everyday! I better go out and get a ticket - then I can fill my new garage with vintage bikes when I win. Maybe the Euro Millions? In a way though, you have won......as you have a very very nice bike on your hands no matter the outcome. I am inclined to agree with Brian and fat tire trader - Chater Lea parts would go a long way to helping you in this direction.


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## redline1968 (May 7, 2013)

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## Iverider (May 7, 2013)

No, my 1915 has seat tube numbers. Many before that did too. Somewhere around the turn of the century or shortly after, they changed from the bottom bracket to seat tube which is puzzling why your number is 1940s (according to Dave) but in an early placement. Double stamped 7 maybe? I seriously wonder if an Iver enthusiast had this at one time and put the parts together from the parts bin. The stem doesn't look Iver to me, but will have the name stamped on it if it is. Sans Serif stamping would be later as earlier had a serif font (similar to what you'll see on a New Departure Model A brake arm although not quite as whimsical)


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## redline1968 (May 7, 2013)

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## fat tire trader (May 7, 2013)

pelletman said:


> I don't think that is entirely true...



"1915 Improvements
A racing bicycle with Chater Lea hanger.'
From the 1915 catalog.
Since that year, the special racer always had Chater Lea cranks.
All professional bicycles from that time had Chater Lea, BSA, or similar cranks.
They would not have put heavy Iver cranks on a special racer, especially one for the Olympics.
Like I said above, this bicycle was meant to have a chrome or nickel head tube and the rest painted over the dull plating. It is a neat bike, but not super special.


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## redline1968 (May 7, 2013)

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## thehugheseum (May 7, 2013)

im confused.......redline keeps saying its super rare that its all nickel while everyone else is telling him hes stripping original paint off and that the nickel dip then paint over nickel was factory/common..........redline are you reading these guys posts or are you feeling bad about stripping the original paint and dont want to hear it?   if you can get the nickel off i will buy it and save the original paint your chipping off in a baggie so i can thin it down and reshoot it......


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## fat tire trader (May 7, 2013)

redline1968 said:


> nickel plate the entire frame makes it really special and  i checked out the dimensions they don't match any but the special.  did you check the 1917 cat for specifics other than the crank?  there is a cause to believe that tha crank could have been replaced since the fenders have been. i will post a few polish pics also today.




As I stated earlier, a frame with a nickel head tube would have been completely plated but not polished where the paint would go.

The crank could not be changed because a Chater Lea bottom bracket shell is smaller and threaded. An Iver bottom bracket shell is larger and the cups press in.

There are two reasons that the top of the line racing bikes had Chater Lea and BSA cranks. The first reason is they are lighter. The second is that the chain ring is detachable and changeable so different gearing is possible. When I go to the track, I have a bag that I bring with a few different chain rings and a few different cogs, so depending upon the event, I can pick the appropriate gearing. This is what people do today on the track and it is what they did back then.


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## redline1968 (May 7, 2013)

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## fat tire trader (May 7, 2013)

redline1968 said:


> thanks but did you check out the next posting on new pics?



Yes I did, and after examining your photos, I am even more confident in my statements. I would really like to have a Special Racer, but a Special Racer has a Chater Lea bottom bracket. Your bike does not. One thing that we can do that would be interesting. I have an Iver truss frame which I think is a normal roadster. If you remove all of the parts from your frame, we can compare the weights of the bare frames. A Special Racer should be lighter. Regardless of that, the real problem with your bike is it does not have a Chater Lea hanger. The Chater Lea hanger is what made the Special Racer better than the lower end racers.


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## redline1968 (May 8, 2013)

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## bricycle (May 8, 2013)

Lots of nickle and chrome plating was wasted back in the day...
My 1939 Roadmaster MotorMaster's rear fender was chrome, then they painted it black and pinstriped it in yellow and red!!!


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (May 8, 2013)

Chris from Fat Tire Trading is one of the most knowledgeable antique bicycle collectors on the Cabe and I would trust him before I would trust others.


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## thehugheseum (May 8, 2013)

mark,save me the chips and rags of the original paint you took off..........i want to extract from the rags and thin it down so i can shoot one of my bikes with original paint


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## redline1968 (May 8, 2013)

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## scrubbinrims (May 8, 2013)

I would suggest putting the original paint chips in an ornamental urn and placed on your mantle until at such point in time you get to Fitchburg, MA to spread the ashes of this deceased bicycle.
Chris


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## pelletman (May 8, 2013)

This is what a Special Racer looks like


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## redline1968 (May 8, 2013)

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## fat tire trader (May 8, 2013)

After some review, I believe that one of my claims about your bike was wrong. It appears that your bike may be a Special Racer Model 90A. While the top of the line bike was the Chater Lea Racer Model 90B. The 90B  at first was a truss frame, but sometime in the 20s, 1928 or earlier, the 90B was only available as a diamond frame. I still believe that your frame was originally painted except for the head tube and the fork. I do not think that it was made for the Olympics. What we need is some more info about the Iver Racers in the mid thirties. When I have time, I will try to find out more.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (May 8, 2013)

Chater-Lea crankset


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## dfa242 (May 8, 2013)

Here are some specs from the 1928 catalog - 
The first two pics are for Model 90 (Road Racer)







And here are specs for Models 90A (Special Racer) and 90B (Charter Lea Racer)
A catalog insert with 1929 prices ranged from $42.50 for the Road Racer to $67.50 for the Charter Lea


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## redline1968 (May 8, 2013)

Thanks for the info


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## redline1968 (May 8, 2013)

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## chitown (May 9, 2013)

redline1968 said:


> if he or someone else can show a frame of the same with nickel plating over the entire unit and the proving it with it being original paint and the chips




Blue Nelson has a Racycle that had a transparent blue paint/die over a nicked frame. I only saw pics of if when a newb posted here looking for info and Blue swept in like a peregrine on a pigeon. I haven't seen him post details of that finish or the bike. No help as far as Iver paint methods but it is a beaut either way. Congrats on a great bike.


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## redline1968 (May 9, 2013)

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## Handyman (Oct 20, 2013)

*Iver Johnson "Special Racer"*

I've been reading this thread and I'm confused.  It was stated earlier that the 90B "Special Racer" had a Chater-Lea bottom bracket which set it apart from the 90, and 90A.  Because of this I would gather that the 90 and 90A had decals on the bike that read "Iver Johnson".  Only the 90B had a decal that reads "Special Racer". Pelletman posted a pick of his bike that shows a "Special Racer" decal but I dont think his bike has a Chater-Lea bottom bracket.  I was under the impression that only the 90B Chater-Lea racer had the "Special Racer" script, but evidently this is not true.  Any thoughts?


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## janebloggs (Oct 20, 2013)

redline1968 said:


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why is everything equal signs?


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## Gary Mc (Oct 20, 2013)

janebloggs said:


> why is everything equal signs?




Deleted posts by user.


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