# What's this?



## Deejay (Nov 8, 2022)

I picked up this old "road bike" today. No badges only a serial no. under layers of paint, so still illegible. I think most of the components (Simplex derailleur, Benelex shifter, Fiamme wheels etc. were added later to an older frame. Not sure about the chain wheel. Because of the rear dropouts, I think it may have been a single speed bike. The fork looks ancient and unusual with the clunky brake caliper mount. A bit curious about what the frame might be. Can anyone help?


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## cyclingday (Nov 8, 2022)

It looks like a French made, Automoto?


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## SirMike1983 (Nov 8, 2022)

The clover and A chainring points to an Automoto.


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## Deejay (Nov 9, 2022)

Thank you very much to the 2 people who ID'd it as an AUTOMOTO. Can anyone comment on the unusual fork? I looked at several photos of Automotos, but didn't see one.


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## Kelpie3 (Nov 9, 2022)

Could be a track frame


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## dnc1 (Nov 9, 2022)

Fork looks like it has had a very crude, probably homemade brake mount, welded or brazed onto the fork crown; particularly the top (square) section which has the brake mounting bolt through it.
What it reminds me of is a frame that once had a fork crown mounted handlebar clamp, that has snapped and been replaced with the crude brake mount; to me, this square piece looks like a later addition to the rest of the assembly whereas the brazing attaching the lower piece to the crown looks a little neater.
A friend who raced track and time trials in the '80's has told me that there was a real vogue for homemade 'lo-pro' bikes at that time.
I would like to see more of this area in some close-up photos. 

It may not be an Automoto, that chainset could have been added when the other parts were added.
Most Automoto frames also had quite ornate lugwork,  particularly on the headtube lugs, that often incorporated the 'trèfle' (clover) design in the shape of the lugs; but not always.

Almost definitely a track frame, just look at that relatively small clearance betwixt front tyre and downtube.
Steep headtube geometry too.


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## Deejay (Nov 9, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> Fork looks like it has had a very crude, probably homemade brake mount, welded or brazed onto the fork crown; particularly the top (square) section which has the brake mounting bolt through it.
> What it reminds me of is a frame that once had a fork crown mounted handlebar clamp, that has snapped and been replaced with the crude brake mount; to me, this square piece looks like a later addition to the rest of the assembly whereas the brazing attaching the lower piece to the crown looks a little neater.
> A friend who raced track and time trials in the '80's has told me that there was a real vogue for homemade 'lo-pro' bikes at that time.
> I would like to see more of this area in some close-up photos.
> ...


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## Deejay (Nov 9, 2022)

Yes, the caliper mounting is pretty crude and likely a home-made job. There is not much clearance between the tire and the crown of the fork which makes me think that the bike originally had a smaller wheel such as the old 26" and the absence of a hole through the crown for the brake caliper could indicate that the bike was equipped with a coaster brake originally. That would tie in with the type of rear dropouts.


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## dnc1 (Nov 9, 2022)

Deejay said:


> Yes, the caliper mounting is pretty crude and likely a home-made job. There is not much clearance between the tire and the crown of the fork which makes me think that the bike originally had a smaller wheel such as the old 26" and the absence of a hole through the crown for the brake caliper could indicate that the bike was equipped with a coaster brake originally. That would tie in with the type of rear dropouts.



The lack of a hole drilled for a brake caliper and the clearance between tyre and fork crown only increases the likelihood that it's an ex track frameset.
Some of my track bikes have less than 1/16 of an inch clearance between tyre and crown, and tyre and downtube. 
I've seen them with 1mm clearance under the fork crown. 

And if it's a frame of French origin its quite unlikely to have featured a coaster-brake unless it was before WW1. If it was German or Dutch then a coaster-brake would be the norm.


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## Deejay (Nov 10, 2022)

OK. Now I have an idea of what happened. A previous owner had an old track bike which he converted to a road bike by installing caliper brakes, a Simplex rear derailleur and newer wheels with a 6-speed freewheel.


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