# Seeking originality information on black fender (1947 - 1949) Roadmaster Luxury Liners



## cbustapeck (Oct 8, 2020)

Very short version: I'm picking up an early Roadmaster Luxury Liner at Memory Lane and I want to come up with a shopping list of exactly correct parts ahead of time. Questions and shopping list follow at end of this post.

Long version:




At Memory Lane, I will be picking up this 1947 / 1948 Roadmaster Luxury Liner, from @sm2501 . At first, I thought that the black paint on the front fender was something that someone else had added later, but I have come to learn that it was actually a feature.

Given that so many of the Luxury Liners I have seen have reproduction parts, I want to do the research and keep this as close to original as possible. I know that some of the parts, like the rear fender and the wheels, were used on other models, but I do not know what the correct example might look like - part of the problem is that I simply haven't been able to find that many original examples - I will discuss what I have been able to learn shortly.

First, I have gathered the following advertising material, in chronological order, to the best of my ability.

*The Ads*




_Saturday Evening Post_, December 6, 1947




March 15, 1948 ad, posted by eBay seller 3girlsanddog.
This is the same base image as the 1947 ad. This can be seen most readily in the reflections on the fenders, which are identical. It was edited to show a completely different saddle and whitewall tires instead of blackwalls.




An ad from _Li'l Abner Comics_, August, 1948, posted by Tumblr user Vintageadsmakemehappy, shows the exact same details, with some additional description. 




This 1948 ad (month unknown, but presumably later) posted by eBay seller eauctionmanagement shows the change to "Coke bottle" style handgrips.




This image, presumably 1948, of Cleveland Indians baseball player Bob Feller, is reproduced from _Bob Lemke's Blog_. The image shows heavy retouching, perhaps because the photo was taken at night. It's not clear to me whether the end of the older style grip is poking out past Feller's hand or not. 




This advertisement, posted by Flickr user 43° North, shows the changes that occurred in 1948. The fenders are now entirely chrome, and the rear fender has the same set of ridges at the bottom as the front fender. It appears that the seat is also a lighter color leather. 

*The "Reissue"*
The 1998 "reissue" of the 1948 model shows some items that are not present in any 1948 ad that I have seen: bent truss rods; "Luxury Liner" decal on the chain guard; chrome fenders; and a seat with a crash rail. (I don't aim to show exactly when these changes were made - I am sure that they have been dealt with by others elsewhere, and far better than I can approach here - and I welcome that information - my purpose here is just to show the change from the black fender Luxury Liners.) I bring it up because it is labeled as 1948 and because so many of the parts from it have ended up on the early bikes.

*Actual Bicycles:*
I've been able to locate two unrestored examples: one that was first owned by SimpleMan and then later owned by Hawkster19, another in the collection of Flickr user Tim Keith 59, and mine, above. There is also one that appears to have been restored, in the collection of Nickinator. 

I see a couple significant differences between the two unrestored bicycles for which I have detailed photographs. While both have Bendix hubs, the Tim Keith 59 example has semi-drop center rims. The SimpleMan/Hawkster19 example has Persons Supreme pedals, while the other has some sort of waffle pedals. The Tim Keith 59 example does not have crash tabs on the seat. The two have different stems and seat post clamps - and my example shares one with one and one with the other, I think.

*Originality Questions:*

What pedals are be correct?
Which wheels are correct, and approximately what years of Cleveland Welding Company bicycles would I expect to see them on?
What range of CWC bicycles share the rear fender? Was it offered on any of them in black?
Was a certain brand of grips used?
What parts are needed to make the brake light work?
What stem would be correct?
What seat post clamp would be correct?
I appreciate any and all insights here. I really hate to make any originality decisions based on a sample size of two, and would love to see photos of any other original examples.


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## Mr. Monkeyarms (Oct 8, 2020)

The fenders on these bikes are pretty easy to spot by the "grill" detail on the rear of the fenders. I do not recall ever seeing them painted. Always chrome. Hope this is helpful, and correct.


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## mickeyc (Oct 8, 2020)

Mr. Monkeyarms said:


> The fenders on these bikes are pretty easy to spot by the "grill" detail on the rear of the fenders. I do not recall ever seeing them painted. Always chrome. Hope this is helpful, and correct.



So all those ads with the black fenders are incorrect?


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## GTs58 (Oct 8, 2020)

Mr. Monkeyarms said:


> The fenders on these bikes are pretty easy to spot by the "grill" detail on the rear of the fenders. I do not recall ever seeing them painted. Always chrome. Hope this is helpful, and correct.




In the lit is says chrome plated details on the tank, chain guard and fender. So "fender" is single and the chrome detail is not the whole fender. If the fender detail was stamped in the fender and it's chrome then the whole fender would have been chromed and then painted. That dumb process of painting over chrome is still being done today on GMC's and a few others. In the OP's soon to be acquired piece it appears as that's exactly what they did, painted over chrome. 





The fender detail was only on the front in certain years?


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## cbustapeck (Oct 8, 2020)

GTs58 said:


> In the lit is says chrome plated details on the tank, chain guard and fender. So "fender" is single and the chrome detail is not the whole fender. If the fender detail was stamped in the fender and it's chrome then the whole fender would have been chromed and then painted. That dumb process of painting over chrome is still being done today on GMC's and a few others. In the OP's soon to be acquired piece it appears as that's exactly what they did, painted over chrome.
> 
> View attachment 1280345
> 
> The fender detail was only on the front in certain years?




Ooooh! Do you have any other photos of that bike, or a higher resolution one? 

The best illustration of what I _think _the early fenders should look like is this one.


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## Freqman1 (Oct 8, 2020)

I'd first determine the year by the serial and go from there. V/r Shawn


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## GTs58 (Oct 8, 2020)

cbustapeck said:


> Ooooh! Do you have any other photos of that bike, or a higher resolution one?
> 
> The best illustration of what I _think _the early fenders should look like is this one.













						Reduced - 1948 Ladies CWC Roadmaster | Sell - Trade: Complete Bicycles
					

Happy Chrismahanakwanzaa everyone. The ol lady keeps buying more bikes so somethings have to go. Original ‘48 ladies, bike has received the famous 2finger treatment front to back, fully serviced, and rides great. Lots of po tina on this one. Must have been an east coast bike because there is...




					thecabe.com


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## Mr. Monkeyarms (Oct 8, 2020)

Like I said, I've only seen chrome. I'm no expert with these. Now I've seen painted in the wild. Learn something new every day! Thanks everyone!  

Any more out there?


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## Jeff54 (Oct 9, 2020)

Yeah, as GT says, yours looks like what happens when factory paints over chrome, bad idea. And I wouldn't doubt yours were issued with or without the paint over chrome hence the red in the 48 ad is yours with chrome verses black. As far as dating goes, the dropout and angle of set screw is the same as the ads which, for the Luxury Liner Mainly, unless somebody knows different, this new version  appears in 1947. CWC's Dropout changes by mid 49 and the dropout angle is just off kilter from being horizontal verses diagonal like yours. Hence, your date is going to be 47 to early 49 period. After the serial numbers you'll have a lone Cw stamped (an C with small w inside the C) Where as, mid/late 49 too mid 51 is marked as ACw (The letter A followed with the Cw stamp.). .


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## 1motime (Oct 9, 2020)

Mr. Monkeyarms said:


> Like I said, I've only seen chrome. I'm no expert with these. Now I've seen painted in the wild. Learn something new every day! Thanks everyone!
> 
> Any more out there?



Very interesting.  I am with you.  Never saw or knew about painted fenders on Luxury Liners.  I had 3 and all were plated fenders.  In the photos it looks sort of stealth.  
Why would they go through the process of plating and do another process just to tone it down?  All that for some chrome detail close to the ground? 
  Someone was thinking and had influence over the bean counters!


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## GTs58 (Oct 9, 2020)

1motime said:


> Very interesting.  I am with you.  Never saw or knew about painted fenders on Luxury Liners.  I had 3 and all were plated fenders.  In the photos it looks sort of stealth.
> Why would they go through the process of plating and do another process just to tone it down?  All that for some chrome detail close to the ground?
> Someone was thinking and had influence over the bean counters!




Schwinn chromed a complete bike just for a bit of chrome on sections of the seat mast, stays and fork. Totally chromed. 

Thanks to stingrayjoe for the image. 1963 Superior.


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## 1motime (Oct 9, 2020)

Shiny helped sell back then.  Chrome plating was cheap


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## Starnger (Oct 10, 2020)

Here are another couple of threads mentioning the early black fender version:
*








						Roadmaster in Plano Texas
					

price seems a bit high to me.   https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/bik/d/plano-vintage-1947-cwc-roadmaster-26/7037345416.html




					thecabe.com
				











						Sold - Roadmaster for sale! Now $250 shipped!!
					

For sale all shown except the tires..... make that clear. 1950s Roadmaster bike built by Cleveland Welding. Selling for a friend so here is my observation.  Bike has been touched up a little.small dents and dings in the fenders and tank. Great front springer forks with headlight.wires run into...




					thecabe.com
				



*


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## cbustapeck (Oct 10, 2020)

Starnger said:


> Here are another couple of threads mentioning the early black fender version:
> *
> 
> 
> ...



I really appreciate you sharing these. This additional evidence is most useful.

The seller on the $250 bike states that it is a 1998 reproduction, and while some of the parts may be reproduction, the rear fender and front forks are definitely period. (The reproduction has a rear fender with bumps at the bottom and a front fork with bowed rods.)


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## Jeff54 (Oct 10, 2020)

cbustapeck said:


> I really appreciate you sharing these. This additional evidence is most useful.
> 
> The seller on the $250 bike states that it is a 1998 reproduction, and while some of the parts may be reproduction, the rear fender and front forks are definitely period. (The reproduction has a rear fender with bumps at the bottom and a front fork with bowed rods.)



Surprised GT didn't show a real deal relating to what can happen to paint over chrome. In This Schwinn and others with the same same year  and  colors, maroon and gray, Pretty much the only bikes in this model, year  and colors, the fenders were chromed before painted.  Far as I know it's the only time Schwinn did this. In this case only the maroon crocked off over the chrome. And it's like; WTF? why waist the chrome? Yet every example like this, the fenders are  chromed 1st, go figure.

And I can not be sure yours was chromed and painted black, just that it looks that way.  Link to topic: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/u...and-white-49-straightbar.176209/#post-1194117


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## Starnger (Oct 10, 2020)

cbustapeck said:


> I really appreciate you sharing these. This additional evidence is most useful.
> 
> The seller on the $250 bike states that it is a 1998 reproduction, and while some of the parts may be reproduction, the rear fender and front forks are definitely period. (The reproduction has a rear fender with bumps at the bottom and a front fork with bowed rods.)



That may be a repaint, but not reproduction (unless some kind of one off prototype), since the dropouts on the frame are definately pre 49 style. My guess is that is an original early Roadmaster Luxury Liner, but the condition is so great that the owner believed it is a reproduction. Skip-tooth chain, new departure hubs, brass badge, none of these were on a reproduction bike.


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## cbustapeck (Oct 23, 2020)

We have a serial number! I appreciate any assistance in figuring out the date. 





Also, here she is in front of her birthplace, the former Cleveland Welding Company factory, on W. 117th St, in Cleveland.


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## C M Gerlach (Oct 23, 2020)

That's nice,
I love a picture of a bike by an old original historic building.
Very cool.


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## riderick (Oct 24, 2020)

Here is my black fendered early Lux Liner. Headlight is a distressed repo, but the rest is pretty much original. I remember when I was putting it together after it had sat around for a few years (after arriving from the ebay seller). I had stored the seat seperately and couldn't remember which one was on the bike when I bought it, so I picked one from my stash that matched one of the ads I had acquired. I don't make a religion out of originality, but shoot for as close as I can get with the stuff I have on hand.


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## cbustapeck (Oct 24, 2020)

riderick said:


> Here is my black fendered early Lux Liner. Headlight is a distressed repo, but the rest is pretty much original. I remember when I was putting it together after it had sat around for a few years (after arriving from the ebay seller). I had stored the seat seperately and couldn't remember which one was on the bike when I bought it, so I picked one from my stash that matched one of the ads I had acquired. I don't make a religion out of originality, but shoot for as close as I can get with the stuff I have on hand. View attachment 1290005
> 
> View attachment 1290006
> 
> View attachment 1290022



I hear you about originality. When it's a question of reasonably close vs. exact match at 5 or 10 times the price, I always go for reasonably close. 

That said, so many of these Luxury Liners have so many reproduction parts on them that I feel the need, as a librarian, to at least document what was original, and to not replace a beat up original part with a better non-original one. This means, for me, that there are going to be a good few parts missing that I just cannot get in my budget, and I am okay with that. Also, there are a bunch of little replacement parts that I am missing, mostly hardware, that shouldn't be very expensive, and if I am going to buy them, I'd at least like to know what the original should be. 

Might I pick your brain on some detail questions and photos, please?


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## cbustapeck (Oct 24, 2020)

Documenting existing conditions, part 1.

There are some notes here about details being right or wrong, but they are no means exhaustive.
















Homemade chain adjustment screw. Unsure what the hole above the adjustment screw is, and whether it is standard. There is not one present on the other side. Maybe for the brake light actuator?




Rack does not line up with bracket, as is standard. (Bracket is underneath license plate.)




Seat minus leather cover.












I suspect this entire wheel to be not original.




A very fancy brass screw that connected to itself from both sides went in this hole in the tank. I am hoping that it is in the back of my car.













Speedometer was here.




















The big hole on the rack? It's for access to the screw that connects it to the fender.


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## Mr. Monkeyarms (Oct 24, 2020)

riderick said:


> Here is my black fendered early Lux Liner. Headlight is a distressed repo, but the rest is pretty much original. I remember when I was putting it together after it had sat around for a few years (after arriving from the ebay seller). I had stored the seat seperately and couldn't remember which one was on the bike when I bought it, so I picked one from my stash that matched one of the ads I had acquired. I don't make a religion out of originality, but shoot for as close as I can get with the stuff I have on hand. View attachment 1290005
> 
> View attachment 1290006
> 
> View attachment 1290022






Awesome!!     Thanks for sharing!!


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## cbustapeck (Oct 24, 2020)

Documenting existing conditions, part 2




As noted above, the large screw from the narrow end of the tank is missing. It appeared to be brass or similar.




The red appears to have been applied with a paint roller, presumably from the factory?




















Aggressive interaction between kickstand and frame.
















Better photos of the strap for the license plate will be provided before too long. Until I have evidence otherwise, I am going to choose to believe that this is for Aurora, Ohio.








Homemade chain adjustment screws! I kind of love them.




Bottom bracket badness. I guess I am looking for bearings.




How does one remove this? Pipe wrench?








Lower fender bolt.




Upper fender bolt and place to which it is attached.  See additional photo below.












Rear fender bolts, nuts, and washers. A matched pair!




Here's where the fender attaches to the upper stays. Is this structural?
The seller said that there were no cracks, and this is in a location where he could not have seen. At the price he sold it to me at, I have no regrets. Added bonus: It's in an area that can be welded and totally will not show!




Machine screw and washers for attaching front fender to forks. The smaller washer is a flexible material.


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## cbustapeck (Oct 24, 2020)

Documenting existing conditions, part 3




I believe the fender to have been painted black from the factory.












It does not appear that anything was installed in the hole at the bottom of the front fender.








Cotter pins securing the pins that hold the front forks together. 
















Seat clamp. I do not believe that the hardware is original.













It's hard to see here, but the bottom bearing cup is taller than the top one. 






















Evidence of repainting, I think.













Can anyone tell he how the springs are attached to the rods and how to remove them, please?


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## 1motime (Oct 24, 2020)

The hole over the right side rear axle is rear mounting hole for chain guard.  Stuck springer srprings are just stuck.  Give a whack with brass hammer or rubber mallet.  Lots of work.  It is worth it.  Nice bike


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## cbustapeck (Oct 24, 2020)

Parts acquired at Memory Lane and Project Status




The fender, rack, and reflector came together, and are kind of rough, but the price was fair for what they are. The rack is available, should anyone be interested.
























These grips are period correct and will do the job. If I'm able to identify exactly what the correct ones would be, I will pursue that option.

The light is a reproduction. I think I really want an original. It's a Delta product, and a few have sold on eBay in the past few months at reasonable prices.




I picked up a pair of Torrington Meteor 3s with may or may not be correct - I'm looking for further evidence. I had thought that Persons Supremes were the right pedals, which is why I bought the blocks. At this point, I'm looking for more data.

I ordered blackwall tires, tubes, and rim strips today. 

At this point, I am looking for
:

Bottom bracket bearings
A correct CWC wheel to match the front (I think it should have a Bendix hub, but I am not 100% on that.
Original tail light
The missing brass tank screws
A well-used chain guard
Correct seat post bolt
INFORMATION! So much information!


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## cbustapeck (Oct 24, 2020)

1motime said:


> The hole over the right side rear axle is rear mounting hole for chain guard.  Stuck springer srprings are just stuck.  Give a whack with brass hammer or rubber mallet.  Lots of work.  It is worth it.  Nice bike



That is such useful information, because usually smacking things just leads to more trouble for me. Much appreciated.


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## riderick (Oct 24, 2020)

Sure. pm sent


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## cbustapeck (Oct 26, 2020)

Details and moving forward




A look at the full serial number reveals that it does not include "ACw" after the number, which, per the attached chart, indicates that the frame was built sometime between March and June of 1947.




I received these Torrington Meteor 3 pedals at the time of the purchase. They're a pair, though I don't think they started life together. One axle is bent, but they are still quite functional. I am tearing them down, with the intent of using them, barring any evidence that another type of pedal is correct.












The bottom bracket and head bearing cups show some evidence of black paint. I'm inclined to think that this is overspray from a repaint, but given that the seat clamp is painted black, I'm not 100% convinced of this, and am going to refrain from removing it until I have further evidence. 




The metal strip that was holding the license plate in place reads "MAR-KING" and then the number "973025".




I love the ability of the buffing wheel to save time, when it is safe to do so. 




The chain that came with the bike was unbranded, though it did have a Diamond brand link immediately adjacent to the master link. I've soaked it in mineral spirits as a starting point, followed by some work with the wire wheel. There seems only minor corrosion, so I really hope that it can be saved. 




Regarding the springs on the forks: They have a nut which seems permanently attached that screws into the upper rod. 




There are several layers of paint on the rear fender that I purchased at Memory Lane. 




This beige / cream appears to have been the original color - see this Luxury Liner for an example. I'd like to think that it was on a Luxury Liner originally, but I have no evidence one way or the other. 




The fender is quite straight and has a clean bottom edge. 




I elected to use a wire brush to strip the paint and rust because I didn't want to mess up the nice sharp crease of the fender. I intend to sand the raised parts down and do a skim coat of Bondo, before painting. 

I'm not sure what I'm going to do for paint. I don't think I want to distress the surface - I'm looking for something that doesn't try to pass for original nor does it jump out and say "I'm new". Plenty of time to consider that, though.


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## Oilit (Oct 27, 2020)

I'm not sure about your serial. There's nothing showing, but they've offset the serial for some reason. The older serials were centered on the bracket,  and CWC markings don't always have good stamps. I've seen them so light that they're hard to read even after the paint is stripped.


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## cbustapeck (Oct 27, 2020)

Oilit said:


> I'm not sure about your serial. There's nothing showing, but they've offset the serial for some reason. The older serials were centered on the bracket,  and CWC markings don't always have good stamps. I've seen them so light that they're hard to read even after the paint is stripped.



That's really interesting. I look forward to finding serial numbers of more painted fender Luxury Liners.

I had just assumed that because the 1998 reproduction is often stated to be of a 1948 bike, that this had to be 1947. It seems that some sources say that the 1998 reproduction is actually of a 1949 bicycle, which would make more sense, and would put this in the tail end of this model before the update for the 1949 Christmas season.


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## cbustapeck (Oct 28, 2020)

Oilit said:


> I'm not sure about your serial. There's nothing showing, but they've offset the serial for some reason. The older serials were centered on the bracket,  and CWC markings don't always have good stamps. I've seen them so light that they're hard to read even after the paint is stripped.



So, I took what you said to heart. A bit of time with the Dremel revealed that there is a "CW" after the number. I so would not have checked this if not for you. Thank you!


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## cbustapeck (Oct 28, 2020)

I should note that I am a bit confused. Should there not be an “A” in front of the “CW” in the serial number?


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## TieDye (Oct 28, 2020)

cbustapeck said:


> I should note that I am a bit confused. Should there not be an “A” in front of the “CW” in the serial number?
> 
> View attachment 1292429



No, that is a newer series than the Cw series. Yours is shown in the purplish blue area. The pink area is the ACw series. Yours was made March to May of 1947.


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## cbustapeck (Oct 28, 2020)

TieDye said:


> No, that is a newer series than the Cw series. Yours is shown in the purplish blue area. The pink area is the ACw series. Yours was made March to May of 1947.
> 
> View attachment 1292600
> 
> View attachment 1292602




Really?! So cool. I was of the impression that for the Series 3 bicycles, numbers starting with A and B were not supposed to have the “CW” following them.


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## TieDye (Oct 28, 2020)

cbustapeck said:


> Really?! So cool. I was of the impression that for the Series 3 bicycles, numbers starting with A and B were not supposed to have the “CW” following them.



There are some rare Cw series frames, starting with A and B numbers that do not have Cw stamped. They are pretty rare, and are actually January 1942 made frames (without rear stand frame ears, as that was a change they began in January 1942, on some frames.) Those early non-ear frames were held over to be used when production began again. I have 2 of those rare A_ _ _ _ _  frames without ears, no Cw, both ladies frames.  I have pics, but they're not on my phone right now.


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## TieDye (Oct 28, 2020)

cbustapeck said:


> Really?! So cool. I was of the impression that for the Series 3 bicycles, numbers starting with A and B were not supposed to have the “CW” following them.



I've seen some A and B Cw stamped frames, and what I was told was that after they dragged the frames out that had been waiting for production to begin again, the ones without the Cw, they used them up first. Then they began stamping the Cw when the company needed to do something to differentiate that series 3. The Cw idea came to their heads after they got stuff rolling again. Some frames were new styles quicker than others, so there was some oddballs. The 2 ladies January 1942 frame bikes I have are both A serial numbers, and no Cw stamp, and no rear frame ears.  At war production stopped oddly, and starting back up was awkward and clunky until they got really rolling. CWC took awhile to eventually get flowing in serial number structure. If you really look at the series changes, etc., you'll see they took until 1952 to get to a logical serial number scheme, using 52Cw suffix and A numbers for January, B for February, etc.


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## cbustapeck (Nov 5, 2020)

*ADMIN REQUEST: Is it possible to change the title of this from "(1947 - 1948)" to "(1947 - 1949)", please? My research has revealed at least one solidly original example from 1949, H67241  CW.*

On the note of originality, I have been compiling a spreadsheet of all of the painted fender examples that I can locate. The current copy is below. The live version may be found here. I appreciate any and all additions to it.


Owner or photographerserial numberMarketed to menMarketed to womenblue / whiteblack / redballooneyA60422 CWxxRetains early rack and forks but later tank and fenderscbustapeckA60964 CWxxKscheelA83796 CWTim Keith 59C14622 CWxxpiercer_99C22564 CWxxSc62 and pre-restoD00594 CWxxDaveprezG09162 CWxxriderickH67241  CWxxchucksoldbikesxDave StrombergerxxeBay via Pinerestxxmodelceller1xxNickinatorxxSimpleMan / hawkster19xxthe2fingerxxWards Guy..xx

A couple of minor notes:

Massive shout out to Riderick for all the help he has provided with photograph after photograph of all the little details on his example. It has helped me confirm a good few details on my bicycle.
Szathmarig has kindly sold me an original chainguard, in the bare metal. I await its arrival eagerly. I am still interested in locating an example in the original paint.
The handlebars on my example are Torringtons.
Careful investigation of the paint on my example has revealed that a good bit of the bicycle has been repainted. I considered repainting it, given the condition of the surface, but decided that some original paint is better than no original paint.
*Big edit:*
The thing that I mentioned in a previous post as being a crack in one of the little tubes that the rear fender attaches to is, in fact, an open seam. I cannot think why this would be done, but it was.


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## TieDye (Nov 5, 2020)

cbustapeck said:


> *ADMIN REQUEST: Is it possible to change the title of this from "(1947 - 1948)" to "(1947 - 1949)", please? My research has revealed at least one solidly original example from 1949, H67241  CW.*
> 
> On the note of originality, I have been compiling a spreadsheet of all of the painted fender examples that I can locate. The current copy is below. The live version may be found here. I appreciate any and all additions to it.
> 
> ...



You can edit the title yourself.


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## cbustapeck (Nov 5, 2020)

TieDye said:


> You can edit the title yourself.



I have edited the titles of other posts of mine, but for some reason, I don’t have that option here. Maybe it’s the number of comments?


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## TieDye (Nov 5, 2020)

cbustapeck said:


> I have edited the titles of other posts of mine, but for some reason, I don’t have that option here. Maybe it’s the number of comments?



No. You should be able to edit it. You have to click edit up in that area, not the text of your first post.


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## TieDye (Nov 5, 2020)

cbustapeck said:


> *ADMIN REQUEST: Is it possible to change the title of this from "(1947 - 1948)" to "(1947 - 1949)", please? My research has revealed at least one solidly original example from 1949, H67241  CW.*
> 
> On the note of originality, I have been compiling a spreadsheet of all of the painted fender examples that I can locate. The current copy is below. The live version may be found here. I appreciate any and all additions to it.
> 
> ...



In regards to your comment "
*Big edit:*
The thing that I mentioned in a previous post as being a crack in one of the little tubes that the rear fender attaches to is, in fact, an open seam. I cannot think why this would be done, but it was."
Frames of this time, 46 to 48 or so, do have a slit in those areas. It looks like someone forgot to weld it, but it's original.  We have several like it.  Pics here of what's normal on most of those frames. I think this is what you're talking about, right?


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## cbustapeck (Nov 5, 2020)

TieDye said:


> In regards to your comment "
> *Big edit:*
> The thing that I mentioned in a previous post as being a crack in one of the little tubes that the rear fender attaches to is, in fact, an open seam. I cannot think why this would be done, but it was."
> Frames of this time, 46 to 48 or so, do have a slit in those areas. It looks like someone forgot to weld it, but it's original.  We have several like it.  Pics here of what's normal on most of those frames. I think this is what you're talking about, right?
> ...



Yes, that’s exactly what I was talking about - thank you so much for that information. The seam on mine is a bit more open, but that’s exactly it. Thank you!


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## TieDye (Nov 5, 2020)

cbustapeck said:


> Yes, that’s exactly what I was talking about - thank you so much for that information. The seam on mine is a bit more open, but that’s exactly it. Thank you!



We have another one that is open a bit farther too. I didn't want to stand on my head to get a picture though.


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## chevbel57 (Nov 6, 2020)

My serial number is G08917 and I bought this one from an original owner


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## cbustapeck (Nov 7, 2020)

chevbel57 said:


> My serial number is G08917 and I bought this one from an original owner
> 
> View attachment 1297268
> 
> ...



Thank you for sharing this. Much appreciated.


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## cbustapeck (Dec 9, 2020)

For the sake of possibly gathering a tiny bit more data - and because they were really cheap - I bought these two ads, cut from magazines, on eBay. Both measure about 6 x 5 in.

This one is dated, by hand, November 10, 1947.




This one is dated, by hand, March 15, 1948.




I'm not going to fuss over tiny details here - I have done that enough already - I'm mostly just posting because I paid for them, so why not put them out there where everyone can benefit.  

The thing that catches my attention most is the seat in the first ad. I am really not sure what to make of it. 





One note: I have not seen, to my knowledge, a Luxury Liner with original grips that are similar or identical to the ones shown here.


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## cbustapeck (Dec 9, 2020)

chevbel57 said:


> My serial number is G08917 and I bought this one from an original owner
> 
> View attachment 1297268
> 
> ...



Might you please share a photo or two of how the wiring and the brake light switch are actually installed, please? I am totally lost.


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## Freqman1 (Dec 9, 2020)

cbustapeck said:


> For the sake of possibly gathering a tiny bit more data - and because they were really cheap - I bought these two ads, cut from magazines, on eBay. Both measure about 6 x 5 in.
> 
> This one is dated, by hand, November 10, 1947.
> View attachment 1315742
> ...



The first seat appears to be a Lobdell. V/r Shawn


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## cbustapeck (Dec 10, 2020)

A brief illustration of the differences between the reproduction and original Luxury Liner racks. 

There are plenty of tiny differences between the reproduction and the two original racks that I have right now - namely, regarding the radii of bends, with some being more tight and some being more round. This isn't about that level of pedanticness - my intent is just to show the major differences with reproduction (top) and the two originals that I have right now. 

Both are approximately the same weight and strength.





The shape of the top of the tail end of the rack is significantly different. (Reproduction on left, original on right.)




The legs for the rack are bolted on in the reproduction while the originals are riveted on.




The bracket that attaches the rack to the frame has a bit of a curve in the original (foreground) so that it sits in place better.


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## cbustapeck (Dec 10, 2020)

My goal has been to rebuild this bicycle without using reproductions for any of the major parts.

I recently acquired the last major part - a "NOS" Delta tail light. I say "NOS" in quotes because, while it has never been sold retail, it does have a good bit of shelf wear.

While the seller was in Utah, the parts were originally from a bike shop in Cleveland, Art's Bicycle, at 15108 Euclid Avenue, just a couple miles from me. The wholesaler, Gordon Cycle & Supply? Just a mile from my job. This was definitely exciting, and the seller was kind enough to include some ephemera.





The meter strip with the Whizzer is great. It will fit well in my stamp collection.




I'm including a slightly excessive number of photos on the off chance that someone wants to compare the original and reproduction side by side.
In all the photos below, the reproduction is on top and the original is on the bottom.

The most fundamental differences between the two are the quality of construction - the reproduction is far more solid while the original is quite flimsy and the finish - the reproduction has a matte finish while the original has a gloss plating (nickle?).

Perhaps a third of the side of the light can be seen when installed.









The lenses are very close to identical, with the only difference visible when installed being that the lens on the reproduction is a little lighter in color.

The switch on the original feels much more comfortable against my thumb.

The text on the original (for search purposes) reads:
DELTA
ELECT. CO
MARION
INDIANA
MADE IN
U.S.A.





The reproduction seen here has the provision to function as a brake light. This feature was described in the literature for the original bicycle, but does not appear present on this example. To my understanding, it does appear on some.




























To conclude:
The original light is flimsy, with the biggest merit for it being the plating. I can see some serious merit in seeing how well one might be able to polish a reproduction taillight. I'm curious as to if any survive that are not dinged up.


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