# Reproduction Troxel Toolbox Saddle?



## Brian R. (Jan 22, 2016)

I wrote to Brooks, the iconic English maker of leather bicycle saddles, asking if they would consider making a "Brooks version" of the Troxel toolbox saddle. Below is my email to them, followed by their reply:

_Hi. Would you please consider manufacturing a Brooks version of the iconic "Troxel Toolbox" saddle? A Google Image search will show you what it looks like. It was the premium saddle of the 1930s streamlined era, is very rare and very sought after today, with examples bringing $600 and up, if you can even find one. The market for a new Brooks version would include thousands of vintage bike collectors worldwide and makers of new "retro" cruiser bikes. I would pay $350 CDN for one, if it were available. -B.R.

Dear Brian R.

Thank you for getting in touch. Unfortunately, this isn't something that we would be able to do for various reasons - such as copyright, the machinery involved for that type of product, marketing, etc. 
Kind regards,
B1866_
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Has anyone on this site considered approaching any other bicycle seat manufacturers with this request?  A few years ago, some fellow vintage car enthusiasts I was in touch with got together and made a group order to have ball joints specially manufactured in China in a small batch - 250 I think. With the high demand, low supply, and ridiculous prices for these saddles, can someone come up with a way to get them reproduced somewhere by some company willing to do it?


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## catfish (Jan 22, 2016)

Get them made in Taiwan.


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## locomotion (Jan 22, 2016)

I don't know if you telling them you would pay $350 canadian was actually a good move, most of their high end seats are selling for more than that and the Toolbox seat requires a lot more work,
and copyright infringement is a big issue


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## Dave Stromberger (Jan 22, 2016)

... and if it wasn't an exact replica, buyers wanting a Toolbox saddle for a restoration project wouldn't be interested.


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## Freqman1 (Jan 22, 2016)

I think you over estimate the market. Given research and tooling cost this would be a money loser. People have reproduced the Schwinn "Pogo" seat and the horizontal Lobdell seat and I don't think any of them got rich from the "thousands of vintage bike collectors worldwide". This goes for other rare parts that have been reproduced as well. V/r Shawn


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## pedal_junky (Jan 22, 2016)

Ball joints reproduced?


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## Brian R. (Jan 22, 2016)

Some good points, thanks. But saddles from Brooks are not more than $350. If you go to their site you will see that their most expensive vintage style saddle, with big 'motorbike' springs is €160. At today's rates this converts to $245 CDN according to the Bank of Canada website.

I was surprised to discover that the Troxel company still exists, so I suppose copyright might still be an issue these many years later.

I need a streamlined saddle for my 1937 Flo-Cycle. It doesn't have to be a toolbox saddle. I will attach a photo of one without the toolbox. Does anyone know the history behind this type, and how rare they are? At this point I'm thinking my best bet is to make one myself by buying an old Troxel saddle and forming new leather around it.


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## reginald (Jan 24, 2016)

Does anyone repro the wear tabs??


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## Evans200 (Jan 24, 2016)

Why not just contact Troxel? If they are still in business, as Brian indicates, they would be the company most likely to re-make this saddle. They own the copyrights and patents, and probably still have the original tooling.


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## Brian R. (Jan 26, 2016)

That's not a bad idea, Evans2000. Here is what The Troxel Company says about their history from their website:

_A History of Value
Founded in 1898, The Troxel Company gained a reputation for excellence as America’s premier producer of bicycle seats and accessories. Since that time, the company has evolved into a major manufacturer of welded steel tubing specializing in a wide array of value-added services. Most recently, we’ve expanded into the automotive tubing product sector. We offer the best value in tubing and fabricated products, including assembled goods and components, roll forms, stampings, powder coated tubular components, and mill length and cut to length tubing. Troxel has a reputation for the highest product quality and lowest conversion cost in the industry.
_
From this description I gather that they still have the facility and know-how to reproduce this saddle if they chose to do so. They are 118 years old - perhaps I will contact them suggesting they could reproduce the saddle in a limited number as a way to celebrate their 120th or 125th anniversary.
_


_


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## catfish (Jan 26, 2016)

That would be cool if Troxel would make them.


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## Freqman1 (Jan 26, 2016)

Not trying to be a Debbie Downer here but from a straight business perspective this is a non-starter. Even if by some miracle they did still have the original tooling, and it was serviceable, the cost would be high ($500+ easy) and the market probably less than a hundred. Your best bet would be if a few talented hobbyist on the left coast decided to collaborate and produce a few of these but they still won't be cheap. The reality of this is if you really want one you're better off just whipping out the big boy wallet and buying an original. Jus my 2c. V/r Shawn


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## Brian R. (Jan 27, 2016)

I wasn't suggesting Troxel would do it from a "straight business perspective". Of course it's a money-loser; that's why I floated the idea, obviously as a longshot, that they might be approached to do it as a 120th or 125th anniversary gig. And it's not a question of ability to pay for an original saddle. Anyone on here who has a car or house or condo has the ability to pay, it's a question of justifying the expense to one's spouse and kids as well as oneself. I can't imagine having the piece of crap toolbox saddle that's currently listed on Ebay for $625 (and shows as $880 CDN on my page!) that's held together by string and patches arriving at my doorstep and my wife saying to me: "You paid $900 for THAT?!"

I am using my Flo-Cycle to showcase the streamlined styling of the 1930s, and to that end I bought repop pointy grips and repop teardrop pedals. So I just need a saddle that's streamlined to finish it off, and I don't even care if it's a toolbox saddle. If anyone has a non-toolbox, streamlined saddle to sell me, or if you know of a type that I can search for, please contact me or post a photo.  The brown seat is just temporary.


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## John (Jan 27, 2016)

I was thinking of making some.


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## catfish (Jan 27, 2016)

John said:


> I was thinking of making some.




That would be cool! I'd want two or three.


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## ohdeebee (Jan 28, 2016)

I always thought the point of antique bikes was that they were actually made from antique parts. These saddles aren't that hard to come by. I've owned three in the past year and just sold one. Be patient. Network with people in the hobby. Always have your wallet ready.


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## rhm (Feb 12, 2016)

I've been restoring Brooks-type saddles for a few years and have made good restorations and reproductions of many leather saddles dating to the 1930's-1950's.  I'd be happy to help if I can.

But my main interest is lightweight bikess, and I feel like a fish out if water here. The words "Troxel Toolbox Saddle" mean nothing to me.  Can you please give a few photos etc of the kind of saddle you're talking about?  The saddles in the two photos above don't look like leather at all.


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## gtflyte (Feb 14, 2016)

Brian R. said:


> I wrote to Brooks, the iconic English maker of leather bicycle saddles, asking if they would consider making a "Brooks version" of the Troxel toolbox saddle. Below is my email to them, followed by their reply:
> 
> _Hi. Would you please consider manufacturing a Brooks version of the iconic "Troxel Toolbox" saddle? A Google Image search will show you what it looks like. It was the premium saddle of the 1930s streamlined era, is very rare and very sought after today, with examples bringing $600 and up, if you can even find one. The market for a new Brooks version would include thousands of vintage bike collectors worldwide and makers of new "retro" cruiser bikes. I would pay $350 CDN for one, if it were available. -B.R.
> 
> ...



_


Brian R. said:



			I wrote to Brooks, the iconic English maker of leather bicycle saddles, asking if they would consider making a "Brooks version" of the Troxel toolbox saddle. Below is my email to them, followed by their reply:

Hi. Would you please consider manufacturing a Brooks version of the iconic "Troxel Toolbox" saddle? A Google Image search will show you what it looks like. It was the premium saddle of the 1930s streamlined era, is very rare and very sought after today, with examples bringing $600 and up, if you can even find one. The market for a new Brooks version would include thousands of vintage bike collectors worldwide and makers of new "retro" cruiser bikes. I would pay $350 CDN for one, if it were available. -B.R.

Dear Brian R.

Thank you for getting in touch. Unfortunately, this isn't something that we would be able to do for various reasons - such as copyright, the machinery involved for that type of product, marketing, etc. 
Kind regards,
B1866
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has anyone on this site considered approaching any other bicycle seat manufacturers with this request?  A few years ago, some fellow vintage car enthusiasts I was in touch with got together and made a group order to have ball joints specially manufactured in China in a small batch - 250 I think. With the high demand, low supply, and ridiculous prices for these saddles, can someone come up with a way to get them reproduced somewhere by some company willing to do it?
		
Click to expand...



Troxel Toolbox seats 

http://www.vintageccm.com/content/troxel-toolbox-seats_


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## fordmike65 (Dec 4, 2018)

BUMP


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## New Mexico Brant (Dec 4, 2018)

The stars must be aligned, Aaron Ethridge @ratrodz were having the same conversation today about the Streamline seats.  Can someone please comment on the actual material used to make the saddle, it looks like a laminated layers canvas cloth.  Is the textured black outside treatment a textured oilcloth or a rubberized product?  Were any of these ever made with leather in the period?


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## Glenn Rhein (Dec 5, 2018)

Don’t think they were ever made with leather, 7 layers of cloth material


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## New Mexico Brant (Dec 5, 2018)

Upon doing more research, Haartz's website glossary and their _Vintage Restorer's Guide_ should shed light into what the original fabric layer may have been.  I have not had the time to fully read their information about period materials but it is quite interesting.  Note: besides the glossary link posted, their Guide has other linked chapters.
http://www.haartz.com/vintage-restorers-guide/glossary-z

Thank you for Glenn @Glenn Rhein for the images.  Haartz also addresses multi-ply materials on this link:
http://www.haartz.com/vintage-restorers-guide/general-terms-types
Interesting, in all the Silver King literature the seats are described as full leather covering for both the Toolbox and Steamline models.

In the book Scott M. sells: Vintage Bicycle Trinkets 1932-1942 the Troxel illustrates a toolbox saddle that appears to be a fabric material, dark with light colored trim.  In the ad (August 1935) it is mentioned "furnished in any color;" has anyone seen this seat in other colors besides black?

Should someone be inspired to do restoration or reproductions this Haartz info would be a good starting point.


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## catfish (Dec 5, 2018)

New Mexico Brant said:


> Upon doing more research, Haartz's website glossary and their _Vintage Restorer's Guide_ should shed light into what the original fabric layer may have been.  I have not had the time to fully read their information about period materials but it is quite interesting.  Note: besides the glossary link posted, their Guide has other linked chapters.
> http://www.haartz.com/vintage-restorers-guide/glossary-z
> 
> Thank you for Glenn @Glenn Rhein for the images.  Haartz also addresses multi-ply materials on this link:
> ...




Great info !


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## John (Dec 5, 2018)

I have illustrated the seat I0 as comprising a cover portion I3 and a base portion I4 enclosing suitable cushioning material and/or stiffening means, the cover and base portions being suitably joined at their peripheral portions. Although I have illustrated the seat ID as being formed of leather, I contemplate that a suitably molded rubber seat may be used.


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## John (Dec 5, 2018)




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## cyclingday (Dec 5, 2018)

Ok!
Now we're getting somewhere.
I'm liking what I'm seeing!


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## John (Dec 5, 2018)




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## fordmike65 (Dec 5, 2018)

John said:


> View attachment 914110





John said:


> View attachment 914112


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## bricycle (Dec 5, 2018)

Too bad John can't make human body parts, I be in for a new right knee.


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## cyclingday (Dec 5, 2018)

bricycle said:


> Too bad John can't make human body parts, I be in for a new right knee.



I'm sure he could.
That would probably be a piece of cake.
The liability insurance would be the nightmare. Lol!


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## catfish (Dec 5, 2018)

John said:


> View attachment 914112




This right here is why we need to have a "Love" button on the CABE. Like just wont cut it for this. John - You rock!

  Catfish


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## Schwinn lover (Dec 6, 2018)

Here is a Silverking with that toolbox seat



I


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## Brian R. (Dec 8, 2018)

Here is a follow-up to my original post and photo of my Flocycle. I unexpectedly found myself owning an original toolbox seat. It arrived attached to a 1937 CCM Flyte that I bought. The bike, minus wheels, handlebar, grips, pump, and reflector, was found by a home buyer in the attic above his garage. It had probably been lying there for 60+ years. It's a nice companion piece to my Flocycle as they are both '37s and both have the curved seat stays - American & Canadian cousins! 

Since taking the toolbox seat off the Flyte and putting it on the Flocycle would be like "robbing Peter to pay Paul", my original problem remains. The Flocycle is suspended, seatless, from the rafters of my garage (this preserves the tires). Once in a while I get messages asking about it, but it's not for sale. The toolbox seat quest continues!


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## Brian R. (Dec 8, 2018)

I'm not familiar with John and his talents, but from a brief search of the forums I gather that John is very good at making stuff. And now he is making toolbox seats, is that right? Which seat is on Schwinn lover's Flocycle - has John made some already? Please forgive my slowness!


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## Schwinn lover (Dec 12, 2018)

A better pic of the seat. FYI guys,,, not my bike,,, but a  good friend Hugh who has a Awesome. collection of old bikes here in  in Cincinnati, Ohio


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Dec 12, 2018)

It would be a real amazing dream to reproduce the Flocycle in polished titanium tubing and aluminum Cnc machined frame parts.


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## rustjunkie (Dec 23, 2018)

New Mexico Brant said:


> The stars must be aligned, Aaron Ethridge @ratrodz ...  Were any of these ever made with leather in the period?




here’s one in leather


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