# It's time for the e bike discussion



## RPower (Feb 22, 2022)

I am writing my thoughts as a full fledge antique Motobike enthusiast doing a museum restore on an old Shelby.  However, I got into this building custom electric bikes for someone and built one that I ride when I feel really lazy, want to try out new products or have super high winds.  I'll eventually decommission the old Shelby I ride and release it back into the wild as a mostly original bike.  The red Westfield is a custom for a dude who bailed but I'll finish it up at some point.  My issue is that every time someone straps some loud, stinky 2 stroke on an old bike or presents a Whizzer the crowd goes wild.  Sold the chrome Rex and my wife is deciding between the Schwinn and a custom Monark Super Deluxe I am finishing - a bike with Nuvinci hub that I can't wait to try out.  Though I don't spend much time on the electrics, mostly riding my mountain bike and an old Hawthorne Flyer, I think it is time to consider electric restomods and crusty motorbikes with electric motors as viable options for enthusiasts who need extra boost (old bikes are heavy) and/or want to use them for transportation.  After all, they are Motobikes (OK, not the Schwinn) and they are motorized...... comments?


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## Freqman1 (Feb 22, 2022)

Personally I prefer to pedal my bikes. If I want motorized two-wheel transportation I'll fire up one of the HDs! V/r Shawn


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## RPower (Feb 22, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> Personally I prefer to pedal my bikes. If I want motorized two-wheel transportation I'll fire up one of the HDs! V/r Shawn



So far the count appears to be 4 for and 1 against but its early.  Though I can agree with your argument on most levels, there is (and was) a segment of the population who could not afford motorcycles (of course old HDs are a dime a dozen now, so who knew lol) and chose to put motors on their bicycles.  Do you disagree/disapprove of all motorized bicycles?  Your opinion is widely respected in this field, so it matters as I navigate through it.  Thanks!!  Personally, I mostly ride mountain bikes, non motorized 20s and 30s bikes and with noted exceptions, the Shelby e bike.


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## rustjunkie (Feb 22, 2022)

put a mark in the + column.
if it's "non-invasive" and easily put back to stock....i like it!


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## RPower (Feb 22, 2022)

rustjunkie said:


> put a mark in the + column.
> if it's "non-invasive" and easily put back to stock....i like it!



Super easy to return to form, keep the wheel set, crankset and anything else you can't use.  All of those bikes except the Schwinn (before I knew better) were built from frame and scrap projects.  Thanks for the comment!


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## J-wagon (Feb 22, 2022)

Nothing wrong with pedal assist, I live in hill area and common. I ran into a grandpa on ekit bike, he enjoy riding with grandkids


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## rustjunkie (Feb 22, 2022)

RPower said:


> Super easy to return to form, keep the wheel set, crankset and anything else you can't use.  All of those bikes except the Schwinn (before I knew better) were built from frame and scrap projects.  Thanks for the comment!




luvit


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## Archie Sturmer (Feb 22, 2022)

I might prefer adding a motor to a less-classic 1990's beach cruiser (e.g. GT Dyno), or to an industrial bike (e.g., Worksman), or a semi-MTB hybird(?).

So, if the originally stated question is about enthusiasm; I guess my answer is, it depends; (not yet having seen, or even investigated prices).

If the question morphs into whether or not an electric motor addition is a good business sales model, then I have no idea.


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## volksboy57 (Feb 22, 2022)

If that is what it takes to get the bike out on the street, then it is cool for sure. Not everyone lives in a flat area.


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## volksboy57 (Feb 22, 2022)

Here is my electric stingray. I built it up from a beater I got from from @onecatahula  I'd like to swap to lithium at some point, as lead acid is incredibly heavy.


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## RPower (Feb 22, 2022)

Archie Sturmer said:


> I might prefer adding a motor to a less-classic 1990's beach cruiser (e.g. GT Dyno), or to an industrial bike (e.g., Worksman), or a semi-MTB hybird(?).



I completely agree with you idealistically; however, my angle is economic.  The problem is that there isn't much value placed on classics.  You see beautiful, complete bikes go for dirt or get parted because no one wants to pay what they are worth.  I rarely buy compete bikes because I like the build process and then loose my a.. when I sell them.  I've posted classics and get sad offers or comments about what's wrong with the bike to diminish its value?  Old bikes, other than your grail bikes, simply aren't valued and look cooler than a 1995 reproduction, in my opinion.


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## RPower (Feb 22, 2022)

volksboy57 said:


> View attachment 1575333
> Here is my electric stingray. I built it up from a beater I got from from @onecatahula  I'd like to swap to lithium at some point, as lead acid is incredibly heavy.



Bomb!


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## Rollo (Feb 22, 2022)

J-wagon said:


> Nothing wrong with pedal assist, I live in hill area and common. I ran into a grandpa on ekit bike, he enjoy riding with grandkids



... Agreed ... when I use the pedal assist on my fat tire bike ... I still get the exercise but headwinds and hills are a non-factor ...


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## SirMike1983 (Feb 22, 2022)

If it does not permanently alter an original vintage bicycle, and the area is hilly, I think a pedal assist is great on the open road. I have no problem where the electric motor is used to help someone pedaling against a steep hill on a public road.

I am against eBikes that become dime store motorcycles operated at higher speeds. I am also against allowing eBikes on bike or multi-use bike/walk/run trails and on protected nature trails.


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## Freqman1 (Feb 22, 2022)

I don't have anything against E-bikes (they just aren't for me) and as long as you can undo any mods on a classic or antique bike then no harm no foul. That said purpose built E-bikes are probably a better way to go if you are strictly concerned about transportation. Of course if you want that 'ol school vibe then you are going to have to do a custom.  V/r Shawn


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## cyclingday (Feb 22, 2022)

If you’re having fun with it, it’s all good!
I think I’d be tempted to try and build something unique, that had a vintage look, but incorporated all the modern amenities of a state of the art Electric Assist.


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## J-wagon (Feb 22, 2022)

Reminds me past weekend group mtb ride local route, Palm Canyon epic, about 26 miles. Couple guys on E-mtb. The rest of us on analog bikes, dubbed Team Amish 😄


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## Fritz Katzenjammer (Feb 23, 2022)

RPower said:


> I am writing my thoughts as a full fledge antique Motobike enthusiast doing a museum restore on an old Shelby.  However, I got into this building custom electric bikes for someone and built one that I ride when I feel really lazy, want to try out new products or have super high winds.  I'll eventually decommission the old Shelby I ride and release it back into the wild as a mostly original bike.  The red Westfield is a custom for a dude who bailed but I'll finish it up at some point.  My issue is that every time someone straps some loud, stinky 2 stroke on an old bike or presents a Whizzer the crowd goes wild.  Sold the chrome Rex and my wife is deciding between the Schwinn and a custom Monark Super Deluxe I am finishing - a bike with Nuvinci hub that I can't wait to try out.  Though I don't spend much time on the electrics, mostly riding my mountain bike and an old Hawthorne Flyer, I think it is time to consider electric restomods and crusty motorbikes with electric motors as viable options for enthusiasts who need extra boost (old bikes are heavy) and/or want to use them for transportation.  After all, they are Motobikes (OK, not the Schwinn) and they are motorized...... comments?
> 
> View attachment 1575214
> 
> ...



That red thing... why... its porn!

i want one!


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## RPower (Feb 23, 2022)

Fritz Katzenjammer said:


> That red thing... why... its porn!
> 
> i want one!



Open to trades lol!


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## Chavez (Feb 26, 2022)

Here’s two of my vintage Ebike builds. One started out as an ‘80 Schwinn collegiate. The other a 69-70 Raleigh Twenty.
Both were built from the frame up and every nut, bolt and washer spec’d out by me. 
I had to spread frames and forks as well as some modifications to the bottom bracket area on the Raleigh Twenty. I built the wheel sets changed wheel sizes on both models. The collegiate is running 650b’s. Both have bafang 36v motors running on Milwaukee 18v batteries x2 in series. They get up and go, ride amazingly smooth and can get up any hill around and then some.
I could go on and on, but I’m pro Ebike for so many practical everyday reasons. I also enjoy the simplicity of a traditional bike ride on any well tuned machine (bicycle).


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## oldmtrcyc (Feb 26, 2022)

What brand of mid-drive are you using?  I have a clunker of a tall frame ranger that has plenty of room where a tank once was to now hold a battery.  I have some of Kevin's 700c wheels, but I would want better brakes than the old New Departure C has to offer.  Also, I think a front brake is a 100% necessity.   I'm not sure what to do there without it looking too modern?


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## RPower (Feb 26, 2022)

So, I have used the Bafang 750 W mid drive and am finishing the red one with the Tongsheng 750 W mid drive (which is a torque sensor rather than a velocity sensor so it kicks in with force, which should be cool).  All mid drive motors except a new 250 W Tongshen need rear brakes (because the cranks spin backwards), which is where it starts to get away from most period builds with extra brake levers and cables.  You absolutely have to a front brake and the 70mm Sturmey Archer looks and works best (my opinion and my Shelby has a very ugly Shimano band brake).  The German hub in the pics is highly regarded and from the 30s or 40s but I probably won't use it.  Another option is a front hub motor (rear hub motors are set up for derailleurs) with a disc brake, but you would need a modern fork.  I prefer the mid drives for balance and performance but the rear brake issue is.... and issue.  Be happy to help with any technical aspects if you decide to build.


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## oldmtrcyc (Feb 26, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> Personally I prefer to pedal my bikes. If I want motorized two-wheel transportation I'll fire up one of the HDs! V/r Shawn



Shawn, you are browsing in the "MOTORIZED BICYCLES" section.  😊


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## Schwinny (Feb 27, 2022)

There is a BIG difference between;
Pros and hobbyists putzing around with electric motation,
The imaginations and sales efforts of those that honestly buy one for transportation and sell them for a living.
and
Reality in-between

They are Mo-peds. Motorized vehicles.
They weigh more and go faster with no effort so need extra stopping power and distance. I've already been smacked from behind by someone that couldn't stop in time and was going too fast for where they were... In a place where motorized vehicles are prohibited... with a look of "get out of my way," with an attitude like I was the problem.

Hobby industry aside, this is a BIG discussion

From the hobby end of it, I may just make an electric burnout bike. That sounds fun.
I had a friend with a front drive motor on his tri-cycle. 750 watts of smoke and torque steer. It was fun to stand with feet in front of the rear tires, jam the throttle till the front tire smokes and sit down on the bike. Reminded me of the little 80's Omni GLH-i I had many years ago. Give it the gun and it heads for the curb.

From the business and use end of it.... Bleh.


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## HBSyncro (Feb 27, 2022)

I do not enjoy noisy bikes, whether they be manual or electric.  A guy rode past me yesterday and his bike sounded horrible...but it looked like he was having fun.


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## RPower (Feb 27, 2022)

Schwinny said:


> There is a BIG difference between;
> Pros and hobbyists putzing around with electric motation,
> The imaginations and sales efforts of those that honestly buy one for transportation and sell them for a living.
> and
> ...



I guess I am a cyclist first, antique bicycle enthusiast second and then comes "I built a couple of custom e bikes".  The red Westfield in my pics is the last e-bike I am building.  In product testing, I rarely took them on trails (which in Colorado Springs basically allow you to ride anything - yet another BIG discussion) and when I did I was on the lowest possible setting and avoided the throttle.  Makes for leisurely, relative safe (I mean, you have to be able to ride any bike safely and that means understanding the components) ride with varying degrees of effort.  Now, I am not going to lie - I do test top speeds, full throttle operation and gearing combinations on roads and love it but I do not consider it a bike ride.  To me, they are not bicycles, rather they are mopeds similar in concept to old motobikes with 2 stroke motors.  Business end of it....... Bleh (but so is rebuilding old bikes).


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## Nashman (Feb 27, 2022)

I think (on occasion) an electric or gas motorized bicycle is practical and economical but safety regulations are the issue in my opinion. ( proper tires, brakes, lights, reflectors, horn, mirror?...ability to control....) I see motors strapped on beater Walmart mountain bikes buzzing down *main roads *and sidewalks and roll my eyes and shake my head. It seems any "goon" can buy a "made in China" 2 stroke and be the "leader of the pack" without any regulation.

I think we are "over regulated" much of it being a tax grab, BUT when it comes to people getting injured or causing accident or injury I draw the line. I suspect I am "high-jacking" the thread ( not on purpose, or being malicious/mods, please relocate if I'm being stupid) but when I was a kid in the 60's and 70's, we were nailed by the law if we took a mini bike or a go-kart off personal property. That sucked as I was one of those kids!

Now it seems anything goes. I ride safe vintage pedal bicycles, cars, and a motorcycle. They are equipped to brake, turn, and accelerate to specs that are professionally done, and therefore approved to run on public streets safely. I have been trained and tested to operate these. Up here in Canada, a scooter under 50cc does not need a motorcycle license to drive on public streets. WTF? Same with power assisted bicycles. Any "Yahoo" can side swipe my 1940 Dayton, '69 Triumph Bonneville, or '61 Corvette and flip me the bird?

I applaud the creations many "lay" people (and Cabers) construct but worry about peoples ability to control what they create. Ok, so I'll be 65 this year and not as "Perky" on pushing the pedals as I used to be. I likely won't consider a motorized ( electric or gas) unit as the exercise and freedom of vintage simplicity still "floats my boat" or "pedals my bike" in this case. Maybe I'm opening a can of worms here, I dunno. ( Again..) If some 80 year old ( or 10 year old) clips me walking or pedalling or driving a legal unit, while driving a motorized anything out of control ( mentally, physically or mechanically challenged) it's not going to be pretty.

This won't be popular, but I think any wheeled vehicle run on public streets or bike trails, or person in control, should be regulated so they don't hurt anyone/themselves. Hey, if you lack the strength and physical/mental capability to pedal a bicycle, how able or qualified are you to brake, turn, stop, merge with others? That said, I'm not a safety freak. I don't approve of mandatory bicycle helmets in quiet roadways and bike paths, and frankly, didn't wear a motorcycle helmet until it was legislated. I'm not a fan of seat belts either. Old school and maybe a hypocrite? After sitting in an Emergency ward 7 hours to get 4 stitches ( our Health care is a joke) on a cut hand ( not wearing safety gloves handling razor sharp tin) last Summer, I've raised the bar on safety and doing less stupid sh**, and watching others do the same.


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## Nashman (Feb 27, 2022)

HBSyncro said:


> I do not enjoy noisy bikes, whether they be manual or electric.  A guy rode past me yesterday and his bike sounded horrible...but it looked like he was having fun.



Yeah, I drive a loud motorcycle on public roadways ( actually contributes to my safety from being driven over) but "silence is golden" on quiet bicycle trails and scenic parks and green spaces. I'm sure the guy was having fun, but annoying how many people? Consideration for others is taking a back seat to the "ME" world we live in now. Pity.


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## Schwinny (Feb 27, 2022)

Nashman said:


> I think (on occasion) an electric or gas motorized bicycle is practical and economical but safety regulations are the issue in my opinion. ( proper tires, brakes, lights, reflectors, horn, mirror?...ability to control....) I see motors strapped on beater Walmart mountain bikes buzzing down *main roads *and sidewalks and roll my eyes and shake my head. It seems any "goon" can buy a "made in China" 2 stroke and be the "leader of the pack" without any regulation.
> 
> I think we are "over regulated" much of it being a tax grab, BUT when it comes to people getting injured or causing accident or injury I draw the line. I suspect I am "high-jacking" the thread ( not on purpose, or being malicious/mods, please relocate if I'm being stupid) but when I was a kid in the 60's and 70's, we were nailed by the law if we took a mini bike or a go-kart off personal property. That sucked as I was one of those kids!
> 
> ...



This is actually becoming a BIG issue across the country as bicycles are electrified for everyday use. Many states have picked up classification levels by speed but that is soooo easy to sidestep. Typical shortsightedness mostly likely encouraged by the industry.
As far as Im concerned, if it is strictly human powered it is a bicycle. If it is powered in any other way at any power level for any reason, it is a motorized vehicle. A moped, a scooter, a mini bike.
Internal combustion is actually an engine. Trons spinning copper is a motor. A Motor driven vehicle, for semantics sake.
Motorized vehicles should not be on a bicycle and walking path, dirt or asphalt.

A 250 pound person on a 150 pound "bicycle" doing 25mph on a narrow path with little experience and woefully inadequate brakes. Equals...... me with a cracked rear fender.
And leaving people to police themselves is ridiculous. This isn't levels of freedom worthy afaic.


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## oldmtrcyc (Feb 27, 2022)

Holy crap.  What I thought was going to be a cool thread turned into a bunch of naysayers whining and preaching about other people trying to have fun!  Sound like a bunch of grumpy old men LOL.  I'm out.


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## Schwinny (Feb 27, 2022)

oldmtrcyc said:


> Holy crap.  What I thought was going to be a cool thread turned into a bunch of naysayers whining and preaching about other people trying to have fun!  Sound like a bunch of grumpy old men LOL.  I'm out.



So whose the naysayer?....


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## bobcycles (Feb 27, 2022)

1 word

*fukEbikes!*

high % of idiots on board these things with no regard for rules of the road... accidents abound due to stupidity and arrogance.

plus the lazy factor. 

Pedal your lazy @ss!


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## fattyre (Feb 27, 2022)

bobcycles said:


> 1 word
> 
> *fukEbikes!*
> 
> ...



Wow!   There’s a guy with no physical disabilities.   Keep on pedaling your bike bro!  When your old and or incapable I hope someone tells you how to live your life.


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## SKPC (Feb 27, 2022)

Hopefully this "discussion" doesn't go off the rails.  As previously mentioned above, MOST e-bike riders are not so thoughtful and could care less what others think.  As usual, "some" seem to always ruin it for the responsible ones and everyone else.  They are dangerous when mixed with slower peds and bikes, no doubt.  IMO, they should all be in the street, not boardwalks or trails.  Some here have done some really tasteful conversions with Tanks hiding batteries and electronics.   Not quite sold on the aesthetics quite yet of mid-drive stuff hung low on the BB or the giant hubs and levers and lines and wires either as they distract from the lines of the bike.  Hopefully, some day in the near future the motors will be designed much smaller, with drive mechanisms that look like a cartridge BB insert or regular sized hub only requiring a small hole in the shell to run wires to removeable batteries and controllers set up on a rack.
     I had a dream recently that I had a two-wheeled BOB trailer style grocery getter with a universal QR attachment/pivot on the seat pillar right under the seat. Speed controller located in same place.  Easily detached from the bike itself but all the batteries and electronics hidden in the floor of the trailer and the drive wheels being the trailer's, not the bikes'..push style.  Still waiting!


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## dnc1 (Feb 28, 2022)

These things are increasingly appearing over here too.
The 'Swytch' e-bike kit; basically a sensor (for pedal assist), hub motor/front wheel and battery pack is very popular. 
I have seen them out on V-CC rides with a lot of interest in them amongst some of the older riders. 
Whereas ten years ago some guys would have had to give up the practical enjoyment of their collections they can now still take part and enjoy the camaraderie of a group ride or the quiet pleasure of a solo jaunt.
As has been mentioned above you are very lucky if you can still cycle comfortably into your late 70's and beyond. 
One guy I know is now adding such a kit to a third bike in his stable.
He's OK cycling on the flat but hills play havoc with his knees; it may come to all of us eventually. 
From this point of view they are a very good thing.
Local bike shops tell me that they can't get enough stock of them to sell.

What does mess with my head is when I see people who I know are fit and well, or youngsters riding e-bikes; it just reflects the lazier lifestyles that many lead today I guess, but it is 'jarring' to me.
Although I will admit to using one some years ago in the Sierra Tramuntana region of Mallorca because my partner doesn't like pedalling uphill.
I was astonished by the efficiency and quietness of the 'Bosch' manufactured system fitted to the hire bikes, and the effortless way that the pedal assist aspect 'kicked in'.

Rules are different over here. Unless you are a very young child, cycling on 'sidewalks' is prohibited, excepting on special designated paths- I could face a £2,000 fine for doing so.
I cycle on the public roads 95% of the time.

We have national legislation already governing the power of e-bikes that limits what you can do.
It is also illegal to use a privately-owned electric scooter (the stand up style) except on your own land over here, but you can use them in certain cities that have 'scooter hire' schemes.  These are the real menace in my eyes, and the cause of many accidents. 
Police regularly confiscate the privately owned scooters and take great pleasure  in cutting them in half with angle grinders then disposing of them. 

But it's all inevitable I guess, in my local city of Oxford on this very day 28th. February,  2022 all petrol and diesel engines have been banned on certain city centre streets. 
Many people won't be able to afford pure electric cars, so I guess that the e-bike will prove increasingly popular.


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## dnc1 (Feb 28, 2022)

SKPC said:


> Hopefully this "discussion" doesn't go off the rails.  As previously mentioned above, MOST e-bike riders are not so thoughtful and could care less what others think.  As usual, "some" seem to always ruin it for the responsible ones and everyone else.  They are dangerous when mixed with slower peds and bikes, no doubt.  IMO, they should all be in the street, not boardwalks or trails.  Some here have done some really tasteful conversions with Tanks hiding batteries and electronics.   Not quite sold on the aesthetics quite yet of mid-drive stuff hung low on the BB or the giant hubs and levers and lines and wires either as they distract from the lines of the bike.  Hopefully, some day in the near future the motors will be designed much smaller, with drive mechanisms that look like a cartridge BB insert or regular sized hub only requiring a small hole in the shell to run wires to removeable batteries and controllers set up on a rack.
> I had a dream recently that I had a two-wheeled BOB trailer style grocery getter with a universal QR attachment/pivot on the seat pillar right under the seat. Speed controller located in same place.  Easily detached from the bike itself but all the batteries and electronics hidden in the floor of the trailer and the drive wheels being the trailer's, not the bikes'..push style.  Still waiting!



I can see that a trailer mounted, push-along system would no doubt work with someone of your capable bike-handling skills Pete, but I see serious jack knifing problems for many less skilled  practioners, LOL!


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## bobcycles (Feb 28, 2022)

fattyre said:


> Wow!   There’s a guy with no physical disabilities.   Keep on pedaling your bike bro!  When your old and or incapable I hope someone tells you how to live your life.




I totally get it for those with disabilities...  But where I live?  I see a lot of young people riding like
complete idiots on the E bikes...all over the road, sidewalks...zero respect for autos or pedestrians...
plus lots of serious injury accidents....

No offense to the disabled...or those who opt for the Ebike as opposed to a car for commutes to work etc.

There is just a high % of irresponsibility currently among kids etc making butt on these bikes at least where I live.


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## bobcycles (Feb 28, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> These things are increasingly appearing over here too.
> The 'Swytch' e-bike kit; basically a sensor (for pedal assist), hub motor/front wheel and battery pack is very popular.
> I have seen them out on V-CC rides with a lot of interest in them amongst some of the older riders.
> Whereas ten years ago some guys would have had to give up the practical enjoyment of their collections they can now still take part and enjoy the camaraderie of a group ride or the quiet pleasure of a solo jaunt.
> ...




 You nailed it!  Able bodied young people too lazy to ride a bike...and riding ebikes like total fools with full on disregard for the rules of the road..
and?  MUCH More prevelant than the older commuter or disabled riders from what I see here locally in So Cal.
  full on sheet show of buffoonery in very high %'s


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## dnc1 (Mar 1, 2022)

bobcycles said:


> I totally get it for those with disabilities...  But where I live?  I see a lot of young people riding like
> complete idiots on the E bikes...all over the road, sidewalks...zero respect for autos or pedestrians...
> plus lots of serious injury accidents....
> 
> ...






bobcycles said:


> You nailed it!  Able bodied young people too lazy to ride a bike...and riding ebikes like total fools with full on disregard for the rules of the road..
> and?  MUCH More prevelant than the older commuter or disabled riders from what I see here locally in So Cal.
> full on sheet show of buffoonery in very high %'s



Are you talking about e-scooters, where the rider is standing up?
That's a whole different issue to what is being discussed here; and as I said above practically illegal in the UK; albeit seemingly difficult to police.
What we're trying to discuss here is the conversion of vintage bicycles from pedal to pedal assist and its advantages/disadvantages.
Personally, I think it's clear from what I said above that I'm broadly in favour of them.
The bikes can be returned to standard/original condition with no ill effects. 
I appreciate your annoyance,  but that's a whole different issue.


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## SirMike1983 (Mar 1, 2022)

The focus should be on proper time/place/manner for use.  Most jurisdictions have general laws prohibiting disruptive uses of a public road or reckless use of a sidewalk, even if the e-bike is not a "motor vehicle".  Many times the excuse of, "we don't have a law against that" is just a thin excuse not to enforce laws that exist. There's inertia against actually ticketing someone when they behave badly, at least until they hit someone and it ends up in the newspaper.


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## RPower (Mar 1, 2022)

So we started with a discussion of "is it cool to put an electric motor on an antique moto bike?"  Initially, we had more positive comments than negative and everyone seemed to share a general positive vibe of "hey, that's kinda cool" - correct me if my interpretation is slanted.  It devolved into purpose built Chinese sh.. rules and now seems to have ended with all of the legislative and safety BS my wife is droning out as I come back battered from a mountain bike crash in Ute Valley Park.  Don't need that.  I say live and let live and let your local jurisdiction determine how irresponsible you are allowed to be.  

PS: Eight years ago I was hit from behind on a trail in Chico, California by a dude on a 50s cruiser who couldn't stop because his coaster brake failed.  Kinda funny when you read through the posts.  Definitely done with this one!!


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## oldmtrcyc (Mar 1, 2022)

Maybe a seperate thread to exchange technical ideas, builds, etc.  Leave this one open for those that like to vent?


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## Nashman (Mar 1, 2022)

oldmtrcyc said:


> Holy crap.  What I thought was going to be a cool thread turned into a bunch of naysayers whining and preaching about other people trying to have fun!  Sound like a bunch of grumpy old men LOL.  I'm out.



I'm an old man, but not grumpy. I think people can do whatever they want, unless it harms or affects others in a negative way. Safety seemed wimpy and goofy when I was a young man ( just like my parents advice fell on deaf ears, then I became a parent, now a grandparent..ha!!) but now I'm an old man (65) & reckless and selfish people annoy me. I flirt with speeding on occasion on my motorcycle, but know I'm being an azz...... At least it's factory dialed to be safe at those speeds.


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## Schwinny (Mar 1, 2022)

Actually I think the heading is the issue as to where this thread has gone. There are two points of inference.

As with anything that gets whined about, Those that do the whining have a vested interest, either for or against.
A person can be unsettled because they own one and have had no problems nor foresee any. A person could be unsettled because they were on the receiving end of someone ruining their no-problems streak. Perhaps they sell them, make them or need one. Regulations will ruin the fun.... etc.
We all know; a little bad ruins a lot of good. So what to-do? Hide a head in the sand?
This issue can have "nay-sayers" on both ends. I see folks complaining about their freedoms being taken away and those with property and physical damage being done.

I imagine that those of us here are on the more responsible end. After-all most all of us are over 40. Most younger bike guys go argue semantics and play the "more Campy" game on "Bike Forum." I dont even know, but I'll bet there are people blue in the face over there.
When one takes offense, they imagine much, maybe too much.

As dnc1 pointed out, and we can see happening all around us, e-bikes are here. Time for growing pains.

Oh, but those scooters........ :0


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## Nashman (Mar 1, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> Are you talking about e-scooters, where the rider is standing up?
> That's a whole different issue to what is being discussed here; and as I said above practically illegal in the UK; albeit seemingly difficult to police.
> What we're trying to discuss here is the conversion of vintage bicycles from pedal to pedal assist and its advantages/disadvantages.
> Personally, I think it's clear from what I said above that I'm broadly in favour of them.
> ...



It's a big can of worms, and easy to get off track/somewhat. At the end of the day, it's all about safety and responsibility for your actions and equipment. The issues are multiple. Legislation will be splintered based on jurisdiction and enforcement will be equally difficult.

Common sense and stupidity are human traits not taught in school. Recognition of these should be noted and stupidity punished. I think once you go past "pedal power" there should be accountability attached no matter what the ride is. For that matter reckless, stupid, or impaired or disabled people without the ability to control what they ride are a danger to themselves and people and property all around them. As much as we hate "rules" ( me especially) there is a need for some measure and training where appropriate. Just my 10 cents Canadian. That equals about 2 cents U.S. funds.


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## dnc1 (Mar 1, 2022)

Back to the matter in hand.

I think there is great scope for converting many of the tank bikes you see on The Cabe. As long as you can configure the battery packs to fit in those tanks, which looks very feasible with a lot of the modern batteries I see.

All of the conversions of old bikes I see in England require you to have a saddlebag or barbag fitted in order to hide the battery away.
Perhaps someone will oneday design a battery pack that looks like those early battery packs that you see on teens/twenties era bikes.
The sort of tubular shape with conical ends that you see on some of the 'motocycle' type bikes on here, hanging under the top tube.
Or a replica Sturmey Archer 'Dry Battery' tube shape for those British Roadsters.
I think they could be popular with those wishing to electrify and use such machines in a discreet,  but easily reversible way.


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## J-wagon (Mar 1, 2022)

RPower said:


> I think it is time to consider electric restomods and crusty motorbikes with electric motors as viable options for enthusiasts who need extra boost (old bikes are heavy) and/or want to use them for transportation. After all, they are Motobikes (OK, not the Schwinn) and they are motorized...... comments?



Nothing wrong with electric pedal assist. Your conversions look nicely done.


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## Hukah (Mar 5, 2022)

I electrified my 48 Roadmaster last summer.
I have a bad back and this has been my proudest build yet.


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## RPower (Mar 5, 2022)

Hukah said:


> I electrified my 48 Roadmaster last summer.
> I have a bad back and this has been my proudest build yet.



You have any pics?


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## Hukah (Mar 5, 2022)

RPower said:


> You have any pics?



Yeah. I’ll get it down (I hang my bikes from the ceiling) and take some.


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## Centurion (Mar 25, 2022)

That blue hornet is sweet, I did a schwinn cruiser for my wife, a little 250W front hub motor, it's quiet and light. She just basically uses it for steep grades on the paths. I like the idea of vintage e bike conversions.


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## soundbox (Mar 31, 2022)

Here's my e-bike...........working on a new one (w/Elgin curved bar long tank and either Springer or Chopper fork).  This one here is modeled/designed after the Board Track Racer motorcycles from the 1910's thru early 30's. 

Specifications
• Speed - 16 mph
• Range - 12+ miles
• Power - 250 Watts
• Motor - 36 Volt Front Wheel Drive
• Battery - 36 Volt 5.4 Ah Lithium-Ion
• Throttle - Variable Speed


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## RPower (Mar 31, 2022)

That is just cool!


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## spinnanz (Apr 20, 2022)

this is my converted electric using a 250w 36v rated rear hub.

I can run it on any voltage 48-72v. Normally it runs on 48v, which gives me a top speed of about 40kph (25mph). I have on occasion overvolted it to 72v and have gotten just over 60kph which is just shy of 40mph.

In 48v format, at +35kph I have a range of around 35km (21mi)


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## colonel386 (Jun 19, 2022)

I'm looking for a small hub motor to put on an old '49-'54 Fleetwing.  I hate to do it but I'm getting too old to pedal that heavy, old thing around, but I don't want to stop riding it.  It's such a classic.  Seems like every thing today has pedal assist attachments, brake lever switches, etc.  About 20 yrs ago I put a kit on an adult trike and it was just a battery, controller board, hub motor and throttle lever...that's what I'm looking for.  Any ideas?


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## 1817cent (Jun 19, 2022)

I instead of turning into an e-bike have you considered just adding a Nexus 7 speed internal hub?  I have a 50 Hiawatha that i did that to and can go anywhere on it and i am in my 70's.


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## RPower (Jun 19, 2022)

There are many options for hub motors and many price ranges beginning under $100, it all depends on how much power you want.  Many are complete wheels, while others are just a hub.  They all have a basic "CPU" and you can add things or keep them simple.  These two have a basic on/off/throttle switch and the first one has a complete wheel (about $130), while the other one was just a hub ($250 total build) I built into a wheel.  In both cases I used modern forks so I could add front brakes but I've seen them adapted to the original forks.  I didn't use the brake feature or the pedal assist on the hub motor builds and tried to keep it simple.  I agree with @1817cent on using a 7 speed or other internal geared hub if you want to keep the bike as close to original as possible.


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## Hukah (Jun 20, 2022)

May I suggest you investigate bottom bracket 750watt by Bafang if you haven’t?
Much easier to accomplish and it basically leaves everything “as is”.


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## RPower (Jun 21, 2022)

Hukah said:


> May I suggest you investigate bottom bracket 750watt by Bafang if you haven’t?
> Much easier to accomplish and it basically leaves everything “as is”.



I use Bafang 750w on my builds (the pics are early experiments) and you can’t use a coaster brake because the crank is free (turns backward). Tongshen builds a 350w mid drive that has a fixed crank you can use with a coaster brake but I haven’t tried it.


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## SirMike1983 (Jul 3, 2022)

spinnanz said:


> this is my converted electric using a 250w 36v rated rear hub.
> 
> I can run it on any voltage 48-72v. Normally it runs on 48v, which gives me a top speed of about 40kph (25mph). I have on occasion overvolted it to 72v and have gotten just over 60kph which is just shy of 40mph.
> 
> ...




That's pretty potent. At the 52 second point of your video is an example of a dog that should not be walked on a trail. You must have pretty good brakes to be on a trail with that sort of thing. The woman in the video should not have brought a dog on the trail that is going to set after people like he did to that jogger. Behavior like hers is what causes accidents and dog bite incidents on the trail.


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## Danny Anson (Nov 13, 2022)

I have a problem with axel holes for in wheel motors. This is one of my side mount electrics.


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## Dra (Dec 11, 2022)

If it has wheels make it go as fast as you can!!! Motorized bar stools is a start


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## soddruntlestuntle (Dec 13, 2022)

I LOVE the idea of an electrified vintage bike!  My wife and I rented e-bikes when we rode the Appian Way outside Rome a few years ago and loved them.  My wife has been having knee issues as she's gotten older, so I think an e-bike is the only way I'm going to get her to ride with me at this point.  And if it were a vintage bike would make it that much better.


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## cyclingday (Dec 15, 2022)

Not quite a vintage bike, but sort of retro looking.
I protested when my wife came home with an Electra Townie-Go, until our first ride out together.
Now, she can ride all day, without complaint, and I can draft her into the wind.👍
They’ll continue to evolve, until they look and function much better.
The full carbon electric gravel bikes are already looking pretty sweet.
Just don’t look at the price tag.🤪


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## spoker (Dec 15, 2022)

things change,the old bike thing is way different now than it was 20 yrs ago,chek the want adds,old bies r stll kool but ppl spending alot of money on em dosnt seem 2b as popular,thr prie od e-bikes will come down just lie vcrs,i ran into a mature fellow on an e-bike,ashed how he liked it,said he couldent ride an od style bike but still wanted to ride,im 76 with copd i like to look at an 80lb phantom but it would not b fun 4 me to rideso i will convert mymiddle weight to an eletric,an poish my phantom,these big old bikes were built originaly for young ppl


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## spoker (Dec 21, 2022)

what bottom adaptor do u need to put a mid mount bafang motor on a midweight schwinn?


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## Danny Anson (Dec 26, 2022)

There is a $900 tax credit for e-bikes among its more than 2,000 pages. https://www.hovsco.com/blogs/news/can-you-get-an-electric-bike-for-free-in-2022


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