# Westfield Manufacturing MotoBike (help identify)



## DoggieDodaac (Jan 6, 2018)

Hi fellow Cabe members. I have attempted unsuccessfully to research this bike on my own. I hope you do not mind me making this request.  I really appreciate your time and support with my quest to learn. I want to thank you in advance for any support and information you offer.

This is my first vintage/antique bicycle. Please see the attached pictures. I will take any additional pictures needed/requested. I have the pedals that were removed by my bosses father. All bearings and parts seem to move and operate as designed, except for the rear wheel. The rear hub and wheel are not properly torqued and therefore spin freely and the coaster brake will not engage at this time. 

What I know: Red and white paint, nickel plated crankset, fenders have black paint, the wooden rims have a moonshaped tire mount surface, the tires appear to be mounted using a woven fabric?, trexler leather springer seat, SN#: H45554. 

What I desire to learn: year of manufacture, model #, blue-prints, schematics for all or most mechanical parts (e.g. hubs, bottom bracket/crank area...etc), proper installion of stem headset, proper adjustments of seat and restoration advice to make this road worthy on a reasonable budget. 

Thank you again.


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## Freqman1 (Jan 6, 2018)

Hopefully Ken @MrColumbia  chimes in but I'm kinda thinking about 1919-1920?  @47jchiggins may have something on this as well. V/r Shawn


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## 47jchiggins (Jan 6, 2018)

Hi and welcome to the CABE! Very nice bike, I am thinking teens early 20’s as well. It might help if you take a picture of the rear hub and brake arm as well as the pedals, components were used during certain years and will assist in putting a more accurate date to it. If possible, a clearer picture of the serial number would be great.
Thanks for posting,
Todd


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## DoggieDodaac (Jan 6, 2018)

Thank you 47jchiggins. I will complete your recommendations first thing tomorrow morning. Your knowledge and assistance is treasured and appreciated.


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## DoggieDodaac (Jan 6, 2018)

Should I attempt to clean off the dust and old crusty grease? The rear hub may have markings that I cannot see. Any recommendations for removing the grime correctly?


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## Robertriley (Jan 6, 2018)

Great bike!


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## bike (Jan 6, 2018)

Looking at the paint a little closer this might be an early repaint (striping or lack, bars painted bike color) but I would go with above about the years teens early 20s as the diamond cups on the head would indicate-(also the truss rods and 'DOUBLE D" chain ring) say to me much earlier than 30s cups were recently discussed I believe on a post called hendee indian- . 2nd look -opinion-

Before cleaning anything ask yourself what is the real use in MAYBE knowing the year when some time will probably reveal this with catalogs- once you clean a little bit of it the area will look out of place with the rest of the bike- it would be a shame to do anything you cant undo.

Rideablity is a real problem as there are NO tires that are really rideable- there are a few repros but my experience is they do not last(some will say otherwise) and are very expensive and are not truly repros so they do not look like og tires

You could probably sell your bike and buy a rider (with a wheelset that takes modern tire) and pocket the rest
it is only (prob old repaint) fresh (uncleaned) survivor (some would say has to be og paint to be a survivor) once.  Takes many years to accumulate that last ounce of surface...

When I was starting out I messed with a lot of bikes and regretted it,

My 2c


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## Krakatoa (Jan 6, 2018)

Great looking bike! Definitely more modern than the teens early 20's. The H serial would denote a 1930 model H 9-T Motobike. From here it appears to have a New Departure Model A rear coaster brake and probably has a Westfield Mfg front hub. What a terrrific chainring! It appears to have mostly original equipment. Rear reflector is a little later period aftermarket item. For an 88 year old bike it appears to be in pretty good shape! Hope you take your time and get it back into shape mechanically. I would concur that taking the time to figure out what you have and come up with a good plan is the best idea before diving in.


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## ABC Services (Jan 6, 2018)

Here is a shot of a 1930 Westerfield brochure. Not necessarily the same vintage as yours although similar. Just putting what i have out there for reference.


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## redline1968 (Jan 6, 2018)

Clean it enjoy it use it. There aren’t many tires out there for it. Repop tires are available for 3-350 set. Buy them glue the them on and ride the s—t out of it. It’s not gold just a cool old bike.


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## DoggieDodaac (Jan 6, 2018)

47jchiggins said:


> Hi and welcome to the CABE! Very nice bike, I am thinking teens early 20’s as well. It might help if you take a picture of the rear hub and brake arm as well as the pedals, components were used during certain years and will assist in putting a more accurate date to it. If possible, a clearer picture of the serial number would be great.
> Thanks for posting,
> Todd




It has a “New Departure”, interesting pedals (no name can be found, solid rubber blocks), Troxel saddle, and I am having a hard time determining whether it is a repaint (the handlebars make it very suspect because both bolts on the stem are painted red)

 







 




ABC Services said:


> Here is a shot of a 1930 Westerfield brochure. Not necessarily the same vintage as yours although similar. Just putting what i have out there for reference.
> 
> 
> View attachment 734478



Thank You!


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## catfish (Jan 7, 2018)

Nice find!


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## 47jchiggins (Jan 7, 2018)

DoggieDodaac said:


> View attachment 734483
> 
> It has a “New Departure”, interesting pedals (no name can be found, solid rubber blocks), Troxel saddle, and I am having a hard time determining whether it is a repaint (the handlebars make it very suspect because both bolts on the stem are painted red)View attachment 734472 View attachment 734473View attachment 734474View attachment 734475View attachment 734480 View attachment 734479
> 
> ...



Doug, thanks for posting the additional pictures. Based on the bearing cups, wheels, New Departure Model A hub, pedals, saddle etc, I'm leaning more toward late teens, I could be wrong as there are folks with far greater knowledge here. Does anyone have any thoughts on the chainring? 
As @bike stated, be careful with cleaning, it is only original once! Beautiful bike!
Todd


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## DoggieDodaac (Jan 7, 2018)

47jchiggins said:


> Doug, thanks for posting the additional pictures. Based on the bearing cups, wheels, New Departure Model A hub, pedals, saddle etc, I'm leaning more toward late teens, I could be wrong as there are folks with far greater knowledge here. Does anyone have any thoughts on the chainring?
> As @bike stated, be careful with cleaning, it is only original once! Beautiful bike!
> Todd



I am going to research everything I’ve learned from each of you and figure out how to get this beauty back on the road where she belongs. I have a hard time owning something that is designed for a purpose and not using it for that purpose. However, some of these period parts may need to be put up for sale/trade to accomplish this (e.g. seat, pedals and wheels) I appreciate any interest and offers. (Forgive me if i’ve Posted this in the wrong space)


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## Freqman1 (Jan 7, 2018)

DoggieDodaac said:


> I am going to research everything I’ve learned from each of you and figure out how to get this beauty back on the road where she belongs. I have a hard time owning something that is designed for a purpose and not using it for that purpose. However, some of these period parts may need to be put up for sale/trade to accomplish this (e.g. seat, pedals and wheels) I appreciate any interest and offers. (Forgive me if i’ve Posted this in the wrong space)



You will probably regret doing that. Especially if you ever decide to sell. V/r Shawn


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## fordmike65 (Jan 7, 2018)

Love that chainring!!!


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## bikewhorder (Jan 7, 2018)

I'm thinking the wheels are older than the bike but that's just a guess,  Anyone know when the ND model A went out of production? I've never seen that sprocket or headset before. Those might be some special pedals too.


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## ZE52414 (Jan 7, 2018)

bikewhorder said:


> I'm thinking the wheels are older than the bike but that's just a guess,  Anyone know when the ND model A went out of production? I've never seen that sprocket or headset before. Those might be some special pedals too.




I thought them pedals looked kinda familiar. Ideal maybe?


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## DoggieDodaac (Jan 9, 2018)

Freqman1 said:


> You will probably regret doing that. Especially if you ever decide to sell. V/r Shawn



Good day Shawn. I am writing to notify you that I am following your advice. I have decided to offer the complete bike as-is for trade for a non-carbon tri-bike or a rideable 1920s 1930s racer or resto-mod with at least a model D coaster brake. 

Thank you for your service and advice!

Very Respectfully,
DC


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## redline1968 (Jan 10, 2018)

Not done yet 34 ballon tire moto bike westfield


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## DoggieDodaac (Jan 10, 2018)

redline1968 said:


> View attachment 736347 View attachment 736348 Not done yet 34 ballon tire moto bike westfield



Redline1968,
What size wheels did you put on your 34? I tried to zoom in to figure it out. That is a neat bike. Also, what is the name of tow bike on the stand in the second picture. That wheel looks handsome.
DC


redline1968 said:


> View attachment 736347 View attachment 736348 Not done yet 34 ballon tire moto bike westfield


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## redline1968 (Jan 10, 2018)

Thanks This bike came with 26 inch wheels they are Westfield and correct for this frame new departure brake also...It’s called a transitional frame when they used a special spacer for fenders. This was used for two years till the frame style was changed..I have them.  Unfortunately the fenders were stolen in the trailer but not hard to find.  I have the chain/ crank setup I’m finishing it up tomorrow...That bike is a 1939 schwinn supior track bike... I collect track bikes. And moto bikes....


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## hoofhearted (Jan 10, 2018)

*
The DoggieDodaac machine really brings to mind
the 1916 Indian owned by Marc Pfisterer.

Separate, removable, fork truss rods .... those truss 
rods having waaay-thick ''washers'' at their attach-
ment points on the front axel ....diamond fork cups .... 
same, single-plate fork crown .... straight, not
curved fender bridges .... ''smashed'' ends of 
chainstays and seatstays at the dropout plate ....
separate, threaded, insertion pieces for axel adjust-
ment screw at the rear axel ... am pretty sure one
of us will find other similarities, 

The 30-T chainring has a real hold on me.  I digz it.

Does anyone have knowledge of the serial number
on the 1916  Pfisterer Indian ?

...... patric




 







 



 












 *


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## DoggieDodaac (Jan 15, 2018)

hoofhearted said:


> *The DoggieDodaac machine really brings to mind
> the 1916 Indian owned by Marc Pfisterer.
> 
> Separate, removable, fork truss rods .... those truss
> ...



Patric,
Thank you for the pictures of the 1916. I am eager to see the serial number. I am witnessing an abudant amount of similarities with these bikes. 

DC


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## hoofhearted (Jan 15, 2018)

DoggieDodaac said:


> Patric,
> Thank you for the pictures of the 1916. I am eager to see the serial number. I am witnessing an abudant amount of similarities with these bikes.
> 
> DC





*That's the Spirit - Young Man !!

Not quite sure if Mr. Pfisterer is still a CABE member (?).

....... patric*


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## oddball (Jan 15, 2018)

My 1916 Pope Motobike


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## oddball (Jan 15, 2018)




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## DoggieDodaac (Jan 16, 2018)

oddball said:


> View attachment 738371 View attachment 738374 View attachment 738375



Is that a metal rim on that rear wheel?


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## DoggieDodaac (Jan 16, 2018)

oddball said:


> View attachment 738371 View attachment 738374 View attachment 738375



Look at that crank!!! Wow (mind blown). I noticed that the down tube connects differently to the head tube. Does anyone know if this is due to the size or just plainly a manufacturing change (Pope founded in 1877, filed bankruptcy and eventually became Westfield in 1916)


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## oddball (Jan 17, 2018)

DoggieDodaac said:


> Is that a metal rim on that rear wheel?



The back rim is metal, also an option was metal clinchers


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## oddball (Jan 17, 2018)

DoggieDodaac said:


> Look at that crank!!! Wow (mind blown). I noticed that the down tube connects differently to the head tube. Does anyone know if this is due to the size or just plainly a manufacturing change (Pope founded in 1877, filed bankruptcy and eventually became Westfield in 1916) View attachment 738736




I'm thinking your bicycle could be 1917, which came in 19" and 21"  that's why the frame difference


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## oddball (Jan 17, 2018)

Bicycle in ad above is probably 19", mine is 21"


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## DoggieDodaac (Jan 20, 2018)

hoofhearted said:


> *The DoggieDodaac machine really brings to mind
> the 1916 Indian owned by Marc Pfisterer.
> 
> Separate, removable, fork truss rods .... those truss
> ...



I am writing to Thank You for your research, time and support of this post and to let you know that I posted this Westfield in the classifieds on Cabe for sale or trade. The classified link is below for easy reference. 

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1919-westfield-motobike-1300-ship-or-trade-fl.124305/


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## Bikermaniac (Jan 26, 2018)

oddball said:


> My 1916 Pope MotobikeView attachment 738370




Does you bike has the diamond cup bearings too? never mind, I see it has them.


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## Bikermaniac (Feb 3, 2018)

hoofhearted said:


> *The DoggieDodaac machine really brings to mind
> the 1916 Indian owned by Marc Pfisterer.
> 
> Separate, removable, fork truss rods .... those truss
> ...




Patric I think Marc's 1916 Indian changed hands some time ago, but I don't know who bought it.

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/b...on-washington-swap-meet-sept-21st-only.45867/


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## Freqman1 (Feb 4, 2018)

Bikermaniac said:


> Patric I think Marc's 1916 Indian changed hands some time ago, but I don't know who bought it.
> 
> https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/b...on-washington-swap-meet-sept-21st-only.45867/



Its at least two owners removed from Marc now. Not sure who the current owner is though. V/r Shawn


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