# Iver Johnson Frame date: Serial numbers?



## Iverider

Hello everyone. Is there a resident Iver Johnson expert here? I just picked up a complete barn find bike last weekend and wanted to try to get an idea of when it was made. The serial number is 256466 and so far the only thing I've notice in the material I've been pouring over is the little indentation where the seatpost cinch bolt goes through the frame. I may be wrong, but I think that tells me that it has to be 1909 or afterward. The fork is not original and appears to be a Schwinn fork. I completely disassembled the bike to find that the steerer was lengthened at some point to fit the tall head tube frame. I'm totally green to wood wheeled bicycles, but I'm really interested in learning more about the history as well as what makes a bike correctly restored. If you're an Iver Johnson collector or have even one, I'd love to get some photos from you. I tend to over research things. I've posted a picture of the complete bike and would love to hear someone pick it apart. The previous owner was skeptical about some of the parts being original. 










Thanks in advance for any and all help you can offer!

Brian


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## 66TigerCat

I believe your bike is from around 1914-15. I was poking around the Wheelmen site (thewheelmen.org) and there are a few references to IJ serial numbers but no one has ever put together a definitive list.


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## DonChristie

Boy that is crusty! Well, Im no expert but I own 2 IJs. At first glance it looks like a Truss frame Iver but then at closer glance im not sure. IJ stamped a serial number on the seat tube of the frame near the seat. The head tube looks longer than what i remember. The sprocket seems correct for an IJ, Fork/truss definately not IJ. What type of rear hub does it have? What ya gonna do with it?


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## Iverider

Yeah, it's got a light coating of surface rust over the whole thing and the nickel plate is pretty much crap. From what I can tell it is an Iver. It has the two piece crank, 3 holes for the head badge and the little slot where the seatpost bolt locates to keep it from rotating (as seen in detail shots of the 1909 catalog) The rear hub is a Morrow, but I think it's pretty rotten. 

I'm going to build a rider out of it using some modern aluminum 29er rims (p35s) and 38mm WTB pathway tires which are about the same size as a singletube 28" The tough part is recreating the paint. I've got not a lot to work with. It was black with some green dart-work and what appears to be some white pin striping. I think the original Iver Johnson logo is painted on correct (instead of a decal or water slide transfer)? Does anyone have a stencil or know someone who produces a stencil to do this (I've seen the decals online but thought paint would look nicer)? I was also curious as to whether or not the metallic gold in the lettering is paint or gold leaf. I know original paint is where it's at, but I really don't feel that I have that option here. 

One question I have is, is it taboo to paint a bike that was black a different color? I really like the Empire Green that is shown in one of the old catalogs. I know in the aircooled VW world, if you paint your vehicle any color other than what's specified on the M-Code plate from the factory, you'll likely get flak from someone. Not that that's an issue here, but I'd rather avoid a mistake if possible. I kind of feel like anything I do to keep this bike from deteriorating more will increase it's value (short of irreversible modifications). In the end, it is (and will likely always be) my bike!


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## Gary Mc

Not an expert but I just got a reprint of the 1915 IJ catalog.  Saw this bike on ebay, great buy.  I love the lines of these truss bridge frames.  Anyway in the catolog is the 1915 Iver Johnson Truss Bridge Roadster 1588 which looks exactly like this bike.  It is part of the truss bridge line.  Standard frame was a 22" but it also came in a 26" (also 24" & 20") frame which this bike looks like it might be from the photos.  Same chainring, same truss bridge weld at top center frame.  The IJ Heavy Service model looks more like a Columbia Arch Frame with a filler piece between the top of the arch & top of the frame rather than direct weld like the roadster so pretty sure yours is the 26" roadster based on this and the length of the head tube.  This bike was produced a lot of years so 1915 is only a guess.  Someone with more knowledge on the serial number would have to nail the exact year down.  Standard color was Ivory black, striped, full nickel fork.  Optional colors were all black, *ivory black with green head, like yours*; french gray or maroon with choice of stripes or green head.  The standard saddle was a Persons Overland No 17 but there were 10 other optional saddles offered.  Your saddle looks like a Persons Eclipse No. 26 which was an option but just a guess from your pic.  IJ offered a lot of options so I'll post a copy of the 2 pages for this bike.  Hope this helps you and please post pics as you restore it.  Thinking about an IJ truss bridge frame for my next project as well so would be interested in seeing your progress on the bike.  Thanks.  Gary


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## Gary Mc

Morrow was one of 3 hubs used on IJs in 1915.  I agree the fork is definitely wrong, should have a full nickel plated fork and would not have come with the truss rods.  Its a big bike and a big guy may have damaged and replaced that original fork, just guessing.  Mud guards (fenders) were optional so not sure if yours are original or not,  need a better IJ expert to weigh in on those.  Seat definitely could be one of the original options.  Good luck with it.


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## Iverider

Thanks for the replies folks. The fork has been modified to fit this frame. Someone has brazed a longer (but strangely warped) steerer on to the forks original tube to elongate it. The connecting piece between the arch and top tube is a piece of flatstock bent to fit the tubes. The stem looks original, but it's broken. I'm not sure if I can fix it, but I'm going to try. It's broken off inside the steerer of the non-Iver fork. 

The bike did not come with a seat post. Do these normally take the 7-style posts? Anyone have a pic of an Iver seatpost?

The saddle is a Troxel. Anyone know if Troxels were ever an option? In any case, I'm pretty happy with the saddle.


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## Gary Mc

The flat wedge piece between the truss bridge and top frame began in 1915 on the roadster so still consistent with 1915 or later roadster.  7-style seat posts are correct.  Troxel saddles were options from the 1915 catolog.  See pic of saddle options for 1915 IJs below.





Check out pics of this ebay auction of a 1913 IJ roadster that just ended.  There are good detailed pics demonstrating the maroon with green head paint scheme as well as you can see close up of the decals and the seat post.  This one sold for $600 buy it now.  Wish I had jumped on it.  Great bike guy had got from original owner.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1913-Iv...ultDomain_0&hash=item2eb6c4925a#ht_500wt_1202

There are also some really great pics of a 1909 racer at: http://www.oldbike.eu/iverjohnson/?page_id=51

Love these paint schemes.  Hope this helps.


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## Gary Mc

Funny, your seat looks like the No. 28 Troxel Eagle Climax which was not an option per the roadster page but pretty obvious someone got one on this bike.


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