# To Restore or Not Restore?



## alecburns (Feb 1, 2022)

That is the question!

Six years ago I bought this C.W. Pinnell, Inc. Westfield/Columbia "Harley" Special Bicycle with an ugly overpaint over the original. I always prefer to preserve the original paint and just refurbish the bike. When looking carefully you could tell that the OG paint was about 85%-90% intact underneath. The problem, is whatever overpaint was this baby blue color is very stubborn, thus why the bike has been sitting disassembled for 6 years. I can't decipher what type of paint it was. it was brushed on, so not spray paint, it's consistency is not like latex paint. And I have tried what I believe to be mostly everything. I used WD40 and 0000 steel wool, Citristrip at set times (too volatile, burns through OG paint regularly), KleanStrip (even more volatile), and recently I tried wet sanding with 1500 grit. The steel wool and the wet sand work the best, but there are some problems.

A. *Say goodbye to pinstripes*. The steel wool was the least invasive and most tedious option. A 2x2in area would take about 20 minutes. I spent a whole week (20+ hours) with this method, and got half a fender down.
B. *Edges and other areas get burnt through* *easily*. No matter how careful I am, the steel wool or the wet sand will take material off high spots and have a hard time taking material in low spots. This means that if I persist with this method, I will have a bike with 50-60% original paint, and in general will look like it was skinned. (term in art restoration when conservator overly cleans the canvas, removing too much paint).

So this leaves me with a conundrum, should I finally say "ce la vie" and just restore the thing? This would give me the opportunity to get things like a tank, kickstand, and restore the rusty headlight where it wouldn't feel out of place on the current bike. The downside is I feel that "factory new" restored bikes don't look much different than bikes made today, so I wouldn't want it to lose its "cool" factor. I also would want to restore it faithfully, meaning drilling out the old rivets to paint each part properly, are there modern rivets that match that domed style cap well?

*SO I WANT TO PUT IT TO YOU*, the members of this community, and your thoughts. Any restored examples to show, opinions on whether it would help/hurt value, etc.? Any tips on something I may be doing wrong to get this overpaint off? Restorations done with rattle can/automotive paint? Thanks.

*Current Condition:*


















*Restored Example:*





*One last thing I am going to try on the paint is moisture and a heat gun. Perhaps if the overpaint in a hold, hardened latex paint the heat and moisture will sticky it up enough to be peeled off? We'll see.


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## Freqman1 (Feb 1, 2022)

To do a true restoration will cost four times what this bike is worth when done. Maybe refurbish to your taste/budget would be a better option. V/r Shawn


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## Boris (Feb 1, 2022)

Have you tried industrial strength Goof-off? There are a few threads on this approach. Not saying this is the miracle cure, just asking.


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## alecburns (Feb 1, 2022)

Forgot to include, I have tried Graffiti remover, didn't even make a dent on the overpaint, but ultimately lifted the og paint. I'll check out the industrial goof off though.


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## Superman1984 (Feb 2, 2022)

alecburns said:


> Forgot to include, I have tried Graffiti remover, didn't even make a dent on the overpaint, but ultimately lifted the og paint. I'll check out the industrial goof off though.



Do Not I Repeat Don't use use Goof Off Professional graffiti remover❗
You will bacon the brush paint & the original.

Disassemble 1 part & use Original Heavy Duty oven cleaner ( not the wussy stuff) in a trash bag; I'd check it about every 10mins or 30mins though. If that doesn't do it then jus' strip it with the Goof Off Professional  Graffiti remover. What survives is what you have or prepped for a project


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## Boris (Feb 2, 2022)

alecburns said:


> Forgot to include, I have tried Graffiti remover, didn't even make a dent on the overpaint, but ultimately lifted the og paint. I'll check out the industrial goof off though.



It's actually called "Pro Strength" I incorrectly called it Industrial Strength in my earlier post. Found a thread with good results on the subject. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/hawthorne-orange-is-the-new-red.110588/


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## Nashman (Feb 2, 2022)

Boris said:


> Have you tried industrial strength Goof-off? There are a few threads on this approach. Not saying this is the miracle cure, just asking.



Wear a gas mask with Goof off or you'll be Goofy for the balance of your mixed up life. That's the commercial stuff....Industrial? Oh...boy.....dig a grave. The phrase "brain salad surgery" ( EL&P) comes to mind. Nasty stuff.


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## Freqman1 (Feb 2, 2022)

I’ve used Goof Off on quite a few projects. Wear gloves and outside or well ventilated area. I killed off all of my good brain cells before I hit 25 so it’s all good now! V/r Shawn


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## alecburns (Feb 2, 2022)

TO PRESERVE IT IS! THANKS EVERYONE.


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## alecburns (Feb 2, 2022)

Boris said:


> It's actually called "Pro Strength" I incorrectly called it Industrial Strength in my earlier post. Found a thread with good results on the subject. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/hawthorne-orange-is-the-new-red.110588/



I went to the thread. Love the results. He mento=ions he used lacquer thinner though, not goof off. Did you confirm that's what he used?


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## alecburns (Feb 2, 2022)

Nashman said:


> Wear a gas mask with Goof off or you'll be Goofy for the balance of your mixed up life. That's the commercial stuff....Industrial? Oh...boy.....dig a grave. The phrase "brain salad surgery" ( EL&P) comes to mind. Nasty stuff.






Freqman1 said:


> I’ve used Goof Off on quite a few projects. Wear gloves and outside or well ventilated area. I killed off all of my good brain cells before I hit 25 so it’s all good now! V/r Shawn




Have either of you used professional aircraft paint stripper? Nasty nasty stuff. It's like Kleanstrip Paint Stripper on steroids. Has this sweet chemical smell. I've seen it rip up baked on enamel in 10 minutes. Always the best idea to wear thick neoprene full arm gloves, jeans (don't want this s*@t on your skin) and a proper ventilator.


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## Boris (Feb 2, 2022)

alecburns said:


> I went to the thread. Love the results. He mento=ions he used lacquer thinner though, not goof off. Did you confirm that's what he used?



Try this thread:
URL unfurl="true"]https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/goof-off-on-the-41-dx.90575/[/URL]


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## Hoagie57 (Feb 5, 2022)

Way too much work either way you go. Just clean it up & use as is.


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## Gully (Feb 5, 2022)

Hoagie57 said:


> Way too much work either way you go. Just clean it up & use as is.



I agree.  Unless you have an abundance of time and patience.  Good luck and have fun either way!


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## Late To The Party (Feb 7, 2022)

Ez-off is lye, a high alkaline solution like Peal-a-way.  Above pH 8.5 you start pulling the oils out of paint which causes it to break down.  Strong ammonia works too but it is hard to stop the action and both will affect the paint below.  No idea what is in Goof-off but most of that stuff smells of orange oils to me.  Aircraft stripper used to be methylene chloride now is often a combination of various things and can include acetone, xylenes, toluene, methanol and benzyl aolchol in a gel form like carbopol.   Chlorides are bad for the iron frame, will lead to corrosion issues down the road if not dealt with properly.  If you truly think it is old oil based house paint try streight benzyl aolchol.  It is very slow to start acting but stays wet a very long time and is what I call a creeper, it just gets in there and starts taking apart the overpaint slowly and with measurable controll.  Clear the agent and stop the action with odorless at any time.  If it is modern acrylics use xylenes.  Neither xylenes nor benzyl aolchol should affect the old original.  Its just chemistry.  You are trying to break the bonds of the newer stuff hoping the older is more cross-linked and less succeptable to what you are using.  Always start weak and increase in polarity till you find the one that works.

None of this stuff is good for you so work outside, wear double nitrile gloves and change them frequently. A respirator is cheap compared to health issues.


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## ian (Feb 7, 2022)

alecburns said:


> Have either of you used professional aircraft paint stripper? Nasty nasty stuff. It's like Kleanstrip Paint Stripper on steroids. Has this sweet chemical smell. I've seen it rip up baked on enamel in 10 minutes. Always the best idea to wear thick neoprene full arm gloves, jeans (don't want this s*@t on your skin) and a proper ventilator.



Yeppers.  I've used it on an Airstream trailer that the previous idiot painted with aluminum roof paint. It DOES take the paint off and will do the same to your skin. PPE is definitely recommended. 
Methyl Ethyl Cloride is the active ingredient. 
Ian


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## alecburns (Feb 7, 2022)

Thank you to everyone for their suggestions. Quick progress report:

I spent about 2 hours testing the fenders with Pro Strength Goof Off in the can, the kind that looks like a lighter fluid container. It doesn't effect the blue under-paint which is great. I would wipe some onto the over paint, lightly rubbing as the can suggests, but it only lifts the a small amount of the paint (like microns thick) and dries very quickly. I have discovered that if I take a paper blue shop towel, soak, wet it with goof off, lay it on the frame and wait ten minutes the goof off has the chance to soak through the overpaint. Then with a wet sand at 3000 grit it knocks off the overpaint in 30-45 seconds and leaves a relatively unharmed underneath, at least the best results I have received so far and not without spending half a day on one spot. Unfortunately, the goof off does effect the pinstripes and the red accents. I'll have to figure out the best course of action for those, I'm thinking maybe a 5000 grit wet sand plus time, just controlling the amount I remove deliberately.

My current plan of action is to remove the bulk of the overpaint with goof off, then do some careful, detailed removal with the rest, followed with some Meguiars polishing compound by hand. Once this is done I should have a 75-80% original paint with 15-20% pinstripes, so I think once I'm at that stage I will add new pinstripes in areas just to give the appearance that it is original, then the fun stuff like new tires and removing the rust from the chrome and things. I'm probably going to wait till spring when it gets warmer outside to do this work. Maybe I'll coat the paint in BLO once it's cleaned, something to prevent rust. Maybe clear coat just for this case? Idk.

I'll post updates to this thread as they come along, no matter what it will look better than it came.


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## tacochris (Feb 7, 2022)

The minute I scrolled down and saw those original decals I was 100% sold on not restoring it.....


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## Kstone (Feb 12, 2022)

I have 4 layers of many weird forms of paint on the bike I'm working on now. Im having crazy success with nail polish remover and a Q Tip. It doesn't touch the pin stripes. That being said, ill be doing this for the next 3 gaht dang years at this pace.


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## GTs58 (Feb 12, 2022)

Kstone said:


> I have 4 layers of many weird forms of paint on the bike I'm working on now. Im having crazy success with nail polish remover and a Q Tip. It doesn't touch the pin stripes. That being said, ill be doing this for the next 3 gaht dang years at this pace.




To speed up the process get a quart can, if they have them, and maybe a rag or large cotton balls. 

*acetone *

Ingredients used in polish removers can include *acetone, ethyl acetate, and isopropyl alcohol* . Nail polishes, treatments and hardeners have very similar formulation composition. All contain a film-former, such as nitrocellulose or cellulose acetate butyrate, to make the product hard and shiny when it dries.


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