# New here!! Help id frame..thanks



## Mikexz (Apr 7, 2020)

Hello guys..nice forum..any help much appreciated...badge is 3" hole to hole..i know the handle bars are wrong just wannted to show it after oxcialic acid bath


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## bike (Apr 7, 2020)

Can you post a close up of the rear dropout?


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## Mikexz (Apr 7, 2020)

bike said:


> Can you post a close up of the rear dropout?





bike said:


> Can you post a close up of the rear dropout?



Hello..bike..sure ill do it when i get home later on today...thanks


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## gkeep (Apr 7, 2020)

Looking like Westfield with the collared lug on the seat tube cross bar. Good start for a project! Congrats.


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## manuel rivera (Apr 7, 2020)

Looks like a Westfield.


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## manuel rivera (Apr 7, 2020)

Fork looks similar to my 1920 Westfield


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## Mikexz (Apr 7, 2020)

Is there a westfield badge with vertical holes?


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## Archie Sturmer (Apr 7, 2020)

The “D” serial number may reflect *1926*-D

I recommend measuring the inside diameter of the bottom bracket for the crank bearing cups, for any *peculiar* dimensions, such as under 2”.


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## Mikexz (Apr 7, 2020)

Archie Sturmer said:


> The “D” serial number may reflect 1926.
> 
> I recommend measuring the inside diameter of the bottom bracket for the crank bearing cups, for any peculiar dimensions, such as under 2”.



Just mesured it..it is under 2"


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## Mikexz (Apr 7, 2020)

Mikexz said:


> Hello..bike..sure ill do it when i get home later on today...thanks



Hopefully this helps out...thanks


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## Archie Sturmer (Apr 7, 2020)

The slotted triangle plates, for a staple that the chain tensioning screws would pass through may be another sign of a bicycle not badged as Westfield’s house brand “Columbia”.  Not sure if Westfield picked up the feature from any of the competitors (Indian?) which it acquired. 

 
I asked about the other hardware just as advice, should you not already possess those necessary parts.
We see that you already have the headset hardware which is also likely to have *peculiar* dimensions (and 26tpi), and should be saved for re-use.


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## Mikexz (Apr 8, 2020)

Could it be an excelsior??


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## Archie Sturmer (Apr 8, 2020)

> Can any *Westfield *ever be an Excelsior.



No.
Well, not likely, at least probably not in the way you might be thinking.  There could have possibly been a store somewhere (New York?) that used a bike label with that word.
I believe that you are referring to the 3" tall spacing in between the badge holes, on a short 3.5" head tube.
I have some Excelsior Supply and (repro) E. Manufacturing badges and they either don't fit or/and are about ~1/8" short of 3".  Also, the A&S badges have 2+3/16” holes.

I recommend looking for a *hardware* *store* badge that might fit; since you are from back East, you may prefer an old HSB badge, (Hibbard, Spencer, and Bartlett?), or you may remember another location from where you acquired the bike.  Perhaps you remember or know of other local hardware stores.
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/hardware-store-badged-bikes.90343/

Another *expensive *option may be to adapt an "_*Indian*_" badge - not sure of the height or holes on those ones; and did I mention *expensive*.

Another option would be to use one of the first few odd badges that you can find, with the less common 3" hole spacing, (provided it is not that of a competitive manufacturer).
A member named Scott from Texas has badges for sale online; he is very good about specifying dimensions - when they are in the unambiguous vertical direction.


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## Mikexz (Apr 9, 2020)

Thanks a lot sturmey archer.. you sure know your bikes...ill be posting another frame ..a hawthorne thats driving me crazy...thanks again everybody


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## gkeep (Apr 9, 2020)

Your lucky to have the mudguards and stem with your frame. Here is a shot of the dropouts on the Westfield motorbike frame I found. Is you look at the dropouts you can see where the dropouts enter the tubing they did a nice half round filler to meet the tubing. This may be an older frame? Mine was most likely badged as either Stutz, Syracuse or Stormer, all used by Westfield from the 1910s onward for some time period. Mine has a nice shadow from the badge though the rest of the frame was stripped of the original red and had black housepaint troweled on like tar. 

It's a real treasure hunt learning about a mystery bike! Good Luck!


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## Mikexz (Apr 9, 2020)

Gkeep thanks..hopefully this caos goes away soon ..so that swapmeets start up again and we can finish some projects..


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## Mikexz (Apr 9, 2020)

Thats my second pre 1933s and i think i got the bug. .here is the first one


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## catfish (Apr 9, 2020)

Mikexz said:


> Hopefully this helps out...thanks
> 
> View attachment 1169710




These are early teens pope drop outs.


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## fordsnake (Apr 10, 2020)

Is the lip on the fenders rolled out or under?


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## Mikexz (Apr 10, 2020)

fordsnake said:


> Is the lip on the fenders rolled out or under?
> View attachment 1170940



Under


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## 66TigerCat (Apr 12, 2020)

gkeep said:


> Your lucky to have the mudguards and stem with your frame. Here is a shot of the dropouts on the Westfield motorbike frame I found. Is you look at the dropouts you can see where the dropouts enter the tubing they did a nice half round filler to meet the tubing. This may be an older frame? Mine was most likely badged as either Stutz, Syracuse or Stormer, all used by Westfield from the 1910s onward for some time period. Mine has a nice shadow from the badge though the rest of the frame was stripped of the original red and had black housepaint troweled on like tar.
> 
> It's a real treasure hunt learning about a mystery bike! Good Luck!
> 
> ...




What is going on with that Stormer badge ? Is it suggesting fertilization ? The continuation of the species ? Virility ? I have so many questions.


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## gkeep (Apr 12, 2020)

66TigerCat said:


> What is going on with that Stormer badge ? Is it suggesting fertilization ? The continuation of the species ? Virility ? I have so many questions.



And same design on the Syracuse. The Stutz badge is more cubist but that hardware company was based in Minnesota so maybe they toned it own a bit? Somewhere I saw someone theorize that since this is a TOC design it might have been inspired by Hailey's Comet which was 'all the rage'  back then. It would be inserting to know the story behind the design. Early bike version of a chrome woman silhouette for truck mudflaps???

Here is a thread about an 1890s Stormer bike for sale, prior to Westfield acquiring them. Same head badge design.








						Stormer Bike on Craigslist
					

Found a "Stormer"  Ladies bike on Craigslist today.   TOC   Is there much interest / Value in these bikes.  I presume it to be somewhat rare as it has wood rims , fenders and chain guard.   It's missing the chain . are they still available ?    Are these rideable , or just for display.  This...




					thecabe.com
				



.


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## gkeep (Apr 12, 2020)

Does the direction of the roll indicate manufacturer  or age? My teens Pierce fenders are rolled under. It would seem like the outside roll would have the potential to collect rain water and rust out faster.


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## Archie Sturmer (Apr 12, 2020)

> Does the direction of the roll indicate age?



Serial numbers indicate dates and age, but Westfield re-used alphabet letters every bakers dozen years or so.  Could the bike be ~13 years earlier than 1926-D.
When I see the _*shorter*_ double bar drop frame motorbikes, I usually tend to think that a bike is later.
The bike looks *just* *like* my 1927-E Westfield built motorbike, which I conclude is likely not earlier, because I believe that hardware store purchased from another manufacturer in those earlier years.


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