# Official G & J Clincher Rims Thread



## New Mexico Brant

This thread is intended to discuss the three types of clincher rims Gormully & Jeffery (G & J) offered.   A goal is to determine when certain rim types (wood, wood with steel inserts, and all metal) were first introduced and how long their individual production continued. Please feel free to post any original literature discussing or promoting these rims.  Also of interest are the different sizes each type were produced.

Note that wheels built with these rims are often now being ridden today.  Modern Rubena 28 by 1 1/2 bead edge tires fit the 28” wood with steel inserts, and the all steel rim versions.  I have been told these tires will also work on the all wood version but have yet to speak with someone running these tires to determine if they modified the inner raised profile to make them work.

Please feel free to add to this thread any material of merit!

Here are images of the three types.

Wood with the steel clincher inserts:








Metal only, these are known to be produced to accommodate 26” and 28” wheels.  Other sizes may have been produced.  They were sold plated in nickel and with painted finishes.  It is known that Columbia, Davis, and Great Western used these for the World War I military bicycles.  Miami also offered these rims as an optional upgrade.












(This original paint set appears to be possibly produced for a Mead bicycle)

And the just wood:


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## New Mexico Brant

Here is a 1908 Racycle catalog offering the G & J metal clinchers as an option. It is interesting that they are promoted for rougher roads.


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## Barnegatbicycles

I think this is from a catalog I have. If so I'll have to see if it's dated.


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## cyclingday

Interestingly, these G&J clincher type rims also came in aluminum.


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## cyclingday

This from the 1921 Beckley Ralston catalog.





It appears that most of the wood rims of the era, were made by the American Wood Rim Company.
It is unclear, if the use of the G&J moniker was a generic term to describe the clincher type of casing, pioneered by Gormully and Jeffrey.


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## SKPC

I do have a pair of early metal clincher rims that have a folded metal bead seat, but not sure if they are G&J or not.  They were in poor shape to begin with. The 1st one required much cold-bending work to get straight enough to re-lace but it came out well.















And below another similarly-pressed steel clincher wheelset in the  26" super-balloon wheel size in 1933/34+?
The rims came originally with these hubs.  Again, not sure if G&J made it or not. (Lobdell)?


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## Barnegatbicycles

1910 mead catalog.


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## New Mexico Brant

SKPC said:


> I do have a pair of early metal clincher rims that have a folded metal bead seat, but not sure if they are G&J or not.



The first set is what we refer to as "G & J" metal clinchers Pete.  There is still much unknown hence the reason for starting this thread.  The second version you posted are fanastic!  They exhibit rolled edge that maybe a "G & J" patent.  It is important to keep in mind that by the early 20th century G & J was a major supplier of automobile, motorcycle, and other types of tires (not just bicycle).  Matt's post helps confirms Gormully & Jeffery likely licensed their patents to other firms.

Thank you for all the contributions so far!


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## dnc1

@New Mexico Brant, I don't know if you are aware of the "History of the Clincher Tyre and Rim", written circa 1900 and published by 'The North British Tyre and Rubber Company'.
It's on the V-CC library site.
I did a quick search for Gormully and Jeffery and this popped up .
I haven't read it all (it's 32 pages of very small type) but G&J are mentioned in it somewhere!


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## dnc1

There is also information on the G & J wood clinchers in the thread below.
Including the original patent drawings......









						All wood rim makers marks | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

I thought it might be a good idea for everyone here to post a picture of some of the different wood rim makers marks that exist out there to help people ID them in the future ( rather then having to google randomly ). Also profile & color charts might also assist.  This is the only Marietta Oh...




					thecabe.com


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## barracuda

Has anyone here tried the Rubena 28 by 1 1/2 tires on these rims? Or any modern tires? I'd love to see a photo, and a source for them. I can't find them online.


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## New Mexico Brant

barracuda said:


> Has anyone here tried the Rubena 28 by 1 1/2 tires on these rims? Or any modern tires? I'd love to see a photo, and a source for them. I can't find them online.



I have Rubenas on several sets of these rims.  Most of us (@cyclingday ) have bought them in the past from: https://classic-cycle.com/wheel-and-tire/tires-tubes-parts/beaded-edge-tires/
Marty was the guy that informed us they would work.
They have sold out of the cream color but looks like they just have stocked brown colored (see home page).
@sm2501 was going to look into importing bulk.

Here is my Racycle motobike with the Rubena tires.


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## cyclingday

Has anyone here tried the Rubena 28 by 1 1/2 tires on these rims? Or any modern tires? I'd love to see a photo, and a source for them. 

Here’s an example of the Rubena 28x1-1/2” tire mounted on original G&J equipped 1918 Harley Davidson, Motorcyke.






Here’s a catalog entry that lists this type of rim in aluminum.


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## New Mexico Brant

cyclingday said:


> Here’s a catalog entry that lists this type of rim in aluminum.



Thanks for the post Marty!  Another thing to track down in the world!  Has anyone seen these in the wild?
@ratrodz @Jesse McCauley


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## manuel rivera

I have this set for a while


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## FreedomMachinist

Intresting to see US collectors using the Rubenas on their clincher rims.
Over here these Rubena repro-tyres are very popular among bicycle collectors, since almost any bicycle ridden in Germany, Swiss or Austria had beaded rims, until they were ourtlawed by the Nazi Regime in 1938 as part of the "Vier-Jahre-Plan" an effort to boost the German economy and the preparedness to defend.






						Four Year Plan - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Clinchers were chosen over beaeded tires, because they were said to take less valuable rubber, which would be needed elsewere (I suppose figther plane tires etc.)  

So any bicycle enthusiast here who wants to ride his pre-wars machines will pretty much have Rubenas mounted: they look authentic and  provide a perfect ride and are durable. 

These tires fit nicely on 28" beaded rims, in 610mm and 625mm diameter - rim width anything around 18 to 30mm. I was told they can even be stretched to go onto early safety bicycles with 30" clinchers rims on the front. 

Since the edges of the tires overlap on the rim bed, the valve stem is often sticking out sideways under an unhealthy crooked angle - to avoid this I usually cut out a little opening for the valve before mounting the tires. 

They are produced in the Chez Repulbic, formerly company name was "Barum".
Unfortunately since fall last year, the white ones are not made anymore.


Question:
I need some rideable 28"Tube Tires and I believe there is a US-source of Repro-Tires, in white. Can aynbody tell me where to order them ?


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## FreedomMachinist

barracuda said:


> Has anyone here tried the Rubena 28 by 1 1/2 tires on these rims? Or any modern tires? I'd love to see a photo, and a source for them. I can't find them online.




Here is an example of Rubena-Tires on my Mars, Nürnberg around 1907.

View attachment 1384573

The first picture is showing the tires brand new.

Below you can see the Rubenas after one year in use, with two ducks carefully scrutinizing my ride ...
View attachment 1384581

The ducks let me pass - they said the tires were ok 




Velo-Classic is a good supplier for tires and lots of other old bicycle stuff:





__





						Velo-Classic Shop | Velo-Classic Shop
					

Fa. Velo-Classic - Oldtimer Fahrräder Klassische Tourenfahrräder und Rennräder, Motorfahrräder ( Sachs 74er / Sachs 98er ), Hilfsmotoren (REX Lohmann, MAW) und Mopeds täglich Versand.




					velo-classic.de


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## GiovanniLiCalsi

Can’t open links.


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## dnc1

FreedomMachinist said:


> Here is an example of Rubena-Tires on my Mars, Nürnberg around 1907.
> 
> View attachment 1384573
> 
> The first picture is showing the tires brand new.
> 
> Below you can see the Rubenas after one year in use, with two ducks carefully scrutinizing my ride ...
> View attachment 1384581
> 
> The ducks let me pass - they said the tires were ok
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Velo-Classic is a good supplier for tires and lots of other old bicycle stuff:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Velo-Classic Shop | Velo-Classic Shop
> 
> 
> Fa. Velo-Classic - Oldtimer Fahrräder Klassische Tourenfahrräder und Rennräder, Motorfahrräder ( Sachs 74er / Sachs 98er ), Hilfsmotoren (REX Lohmann, MAW) und Mopeds täglich Versand.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> velo-classic.de






GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> Can’t open links.



Ditto!


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## cyclingday

Here’s an example of the 28x1-1/2” Rubena tire mounted to the wood rim, with the steel lined, G&J clincher insert.


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## New Mexico Brant

FreedomMachinist said:


> Unfortunately since fall last year, the white ones are not made anymore.



It is too bad they stopped producing the white ones.  Hopefully they will reconsider this decision.  The fact they just came out with the brown ones implies they wish to continue this product line.  It would be great if someone could dialog with Rubena regarding the colors the classic/antique bicycle community truly wants.  Their red color is not historically correct; l would certainly buy few pairs if they produced a proper clay-red.


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## FreedomMachinist

dnc1 said:


> Ditto!




Sorry for that , when I posted them yesterday it worked - but today I cant see them either ? Maybe too large ?

I'll try again:
View attachment 1384746



View attachment 1384747


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## FreedomMachinist

Damn it  as soon as send "Post reply" the photo disappears from the screen and the link shows up,  which is broken... The photo-size is 2,3mb and 1mb...


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## FreedomMachinist




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## FreedomMachinist

Allright, this time it worked- I must not use the "Insert Image" key but make a direct drag'n drop to make it work.


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## New Mexico Brant

FreedomMachinist said:


> Allright, this time it worked- I must not use the "Insert Image" key but make a direct drag'n drop to make it work.



Great bicycle!  These tires really fit the part and look so good especially after being ridden for a while.  Thank you for your post.  If you hear that Rubena has reissued the white/cream color can you please let us know.


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## FreedomMachinist

New Mexico Brant said:


> It is too bad they stopped producing the white ones.  Hopefully they will reconsider this decision.  The fact they just came out with the brown ones implies they wish to continue this product line.  It would be great if someone could dialog with Rubena regarding the colors the classic/antique bicycle community truly wants.  Their red color is not historically correct; l would certainly buy few pairs if they produced a proper clay-red.



Yes, Brant, I certainly will - I look out for them and let you guys know - I'd need a pair mysef. There have been talkings on a forum here, it was said that white rubber is harder to mold and Rubena therefore stopped them. I have no idea if that is true...

And I agree, the white ones are the most favorables and most widely used ones, as you can see on that guy, August Stukenbrok, carrying his 1907 machine:




But I could imagine the redness of these current Rubenas will look clay red in 100 years, so maybe they are not that historically incorrect ? 
At least in Germany, Red was indeed an available color for tires at the time ! This 1907 Stukenbrok catalog mentions them, although they were deemed to be not as durable as the white and black ones:








"  Due to repeated demand I carry the above Teutonia Tires also in red quality. Hoever, this color is very light sensetive which makes it prone to disintegration.
For this reason we reject any warranty claims on red quality, none the less other makers declare red pneumtics to be just as durable, which is not the case. "


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## FreedomMachinist

By the way: The brown ones are already out on the market for a while, but they are super brown, very dark choclate color, unfortunately. For that reason they dont sell to well.

A member of the German Club has been reaching out to Rubena as to change the white to beige and brown to leight-brown-grey, but so far to no extend.
Even more, they discontiniued white 

It seems like many people would like these tires, on the other hand i have no idea how much is needed to make profit...


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## cyclingday

I had inquired about the color of the red tires, and the response was of no interest in making the change to clay/brick red.
My assumption was that a large quantity had been made in cherry red, and that the color wouldn’t be altered until that stock had been sold.
The white/cream color tires look like a coating over black rubber.
So it may have been a hassle to make, which is why they’ve been discontinued.


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## C M Gerlach

Rubinas will fit wood without steel insert also.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi

I really need a pair of the cream colored Rubinas.
Anyone have a pair of them for sale?
I’m planning to have a set of Ghisallo clinchers made, with carbon fiber reinforcement.


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## cyclingday

C M Gerlach said:


> Rubinas will fit wood without steel insert also.
> 
> View attachment 1384983
> 
> View attachment 1384984
> 
> View attachment 1384985



Interesting.
I thought that they might, but those rims were designed to accept the double clinch type casing, and I wasn’t sure if the single clinch Rubena tire would lock in sufficiently.
Did you have to modify the rim by removing the inner locking ridges for the double clinch type tire?
That modification looks easy enough to do, but it would be nice to not have to alter the rim in order to fit the single clinch type Rubena tire casing.


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## FreedomMachinist

C M Gerlach said:


> Rubinas will fit wood without steel insert also.
> 
> 
> View attachment 1384985





Very nice bike, love it

and since you touched the topic:

Rubenas will also fit wood rims with steel inserts:

View attachment 1385145

These rims on my 1906 WKC are the original ones - pretty sophistacted for a ladies machine of this age, since the inlays are actually made of alunimum !
The Rubenas did not need any alteration to be mounted on these rims.
The tires are actually the only not original part on the bike, even the chain still has the WKC-maker stamps on the links.... but enough of this- I don't want to spam this post more than I already did


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## C M Gerlach

cyclingday said:


> Interesting.
> I thought that they might, but those rims were designed to accept the double clinch type casing, and I wasn’t sure if the single clinch Rubena tire would lock in sufficiently.
> Did you have to modify the rim by removing the inner locking ridges for the double clinch type tire?
> That modification looks easy enough to do, but it would be nice to not have to alter the rim in order to fit the single clinch type Rubena tire casing.
> View attachment 1385131




no modification to the rim.....gentle heat and manipulation, and they locked right in....run it at lower end of psi, ......no problems yet.


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## gkeep

This looks like someone has some colors available, maybe this is Classic Cycles on eBay??
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-x-Wulstre...etro-28x-1-1-2/124503407757?campid=5335809022
My teens Pierce has this G&J type of clincher rim. It would be great if there was something beside the Vee Rubber tires that I've ordered from Australia. They seem to decay fast. Within a few months they started to show cracks on the sidewalls.


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## FreedomMachinist

gkeep said:


> This looks like someone has some colors available, maybe this is Classic Cycles on eBay??
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/2-x-Wulstre...etro-28x-1-1-2/124503407757?campid=5335809022




this is from a small bike shop in Leverkusen, and he only carries the red ones , the rest is out of stock unfortunately...







But one thing I know for sure: the quality of these tires is really quite good, with one piar I rode at least 1000 miles and the thread is still perfect. 
So if you can cope with Red you might want to order a pair for your Pierce...

I talked to the owner of the German Bicycle Museum today and asked him about the White-Rubena-Issue and he told me the following:
The company is so tied up with their normal orders that they do not want to make more beaded tires at the moment.
One batch is about 3000 tires and apparently the antique bicycle collecting comunity is just too small (?) so they make modern tires which have huge demand right now.
So thank you very much for that Corona !  
In Germany Bicycle sales went up by over 50%, everybody wants an new bike during lockdown, to stay healthy, travel to near by destinations etc. and bike stores are exempted from lockdown.

How about US-Bike sales ?


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## FreedomMachinist

FreedomMachinist said:


> View attachment 1385923Very nice bike, love it
> 
> and since you touched the topic:
> 
> Rubenas will also fit wood rims with steel inserts:
> 
> View attachment 1385145
> 
> These rims on my 1906 WKC are the original ones - pretty sophistacted for a ladies machine of this age, since the inlays are actually made of alunimum !
> The Rubenas did not need any alteration to be mounted on these rims.
> The tires are actually the only not original part on the bike, even the chain still has the WKC-maker stamps on the links.... but enough of this- I don't want to spam this post more than I already did




So sorry, I messt up again ... here is the photo:


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## dnc1

FreedomMachinist said:


> this is from a small bike shop in Leverkusen, and he only carries the red ones , the rest is out of stock unfortunately...
> 
> 
> View attachment 1385913
> 
> 
> But one thing I know for sure: the quality of these tires is really quite good, with one piar I rode at least 1000 miles and the thread is still perfect.
> So if you can cope with Red you might want to order a pair for your Pierce...
> 
> I talked to the owner of the German Bicycle Museum today and asked him about the White-Rubena-Issue and he told me the following:
> The company is so tied up with their normal orders that they do not want to make more beaded tires at the moment.
> One batch is about 3000 tires and apparently the antique bicycle collecting comunity is just too small (?) so they make modern tires which have huge demand right now.
> So thank you very much for that Corona !
> In Germany Bicycle sales went up by over 50%, everybody wants an new bike during lockdown, to stay healthy, travel to near by destinations etc. and bike stores are exempted from lockdown.
> 
> How about US-Bike sales ?



The situation is the same in the UK, and there is a shortage (and waiting list in some cases) of new bicycles.


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## gkeep

dnc1 said:


> The situation is the same in the UK, and there is a shortage (and waiting list in some cases) of new bicycles.



Bicycle shops all over North America were cleaned out last spring. A friend had to go to 4 shops over a period of weeks in January to find a new beach cruiser type bike for his daughter. I tried to sell them not eh idea of a vintage beach cruiser from the 50s -60s but you know how 13 year olds can be.


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## thursday

Barnegatbicycles said:


> 1910 mead catalog.View attachment 1383934



Really interesting info but I have a question. I recently bought a 1920s Elgin that has an all metal rim similar to the ones in the '08 Racycle catalog but with a rolled back edge. I've found that a conventional 27 x 11/4" tire, kind of a standard 10sp tire circa '70-'80s is just a slight bit oversize but rideable. Any ideas on this? Thanks, Thursday


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## Barnegatbicycles

thursday said:


> Really interesting info but I have a question. I recently bought a 1920s Elgin that has an all metal rim similar to the ones in the '08 Racycle catalog but with a rolled back edge. I've found that a conventional 27 x 11/4" tire, kind of a standard 10sp tire circa '70-'80s is just a slight bit oversize but rideable. Any ideas on this? Thanks, Thursday



Pictures? And is your question about it being 27 instead of 28?


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## SKPC

Here is a bike being sold here with GJ's. 








						Withdrawn - Teens-early 20s Mead Ranger Roadster Now Parting | Sell - Trade: Complete Bicycles
					

This is what I think is between the teens and the early twenties Mead Ranger roadster. The paint is original and in incredibly good condition. I have never attempted to clean it, but you can tell it will get much nicer. The rims are very old clincher rims and they hold 27" tires. I replaced the...




					thecabe.com
				










New 27" tires?   BSD?


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## cyclingday

This from the 1938 Chicago Cycle Supply catalog.


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## SKPC

Marty.  I saw this ad here awhile ago and could not find it.  Does it not suggest others made this similarly-folded, metal, beaded rim  that only _appears _to be a g&j?


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## corbettclassics

*1893



*


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## gkeep

Hi All,

This might be the place to order Rubenas.

I just found this site and ordered a pair of Creme Rubenas for $27, shipping was $25. Waiting for the email confirmation and maybe get a sense of delivery timing since I'm not sure where they are coming from. Somewhere in Europe...
*Warning, we're all thinking this may be a scam website so do not order tires from WEFORWILDT until some of us **receive our tires or we can confirm through Paypal or other entity that this website is legitimate.  I'm deleting the link. My most profound apologies to everyone if this turns out to be a fraudulent site. Damn, those tires looked so good.😧*


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## cyclingday

Wow!
That’s great!
Thanks for the info.
I ordered a 10 count of the creme color, and they gave me free shipping and a quantity discount, so it only cost $99.00
That seems way too good to be true, so I’m thinking it might be a scam.
I’ll be sure and let you guys know, if I just bought drinks for a bunch of guys over in Germany, or if I just scored 10 badass creme color 28” Rubena’s for a hundred bucks.


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## New Mexico Brant

cyclingday said:


> Wow!
> That’s great!
> Thanks for the info.
> I ordered a 10 count of the creme color, and they gave me free shipping and a quantity discount, so it only cost $99.00
> That seems way too good to be true, so I’m thinking it might be a scam.
> I’ll be sure and let you guys know, if I just bought drinks for a bunch of guys over in Germany, or if I just scored 10 badass creme color 28” Rubena’s for a hundred bucks.



Check your Paypal or credit card; your money just went to China.  I bought 3 pairs; they did the same $99 thing.  I checked the Paypal and they billed $113.80; the company name was just Chinese characters.


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## FreedomMachinist

It seems odd if they'd also ship from China- Rubenas are made in Czeque Republic - former company name "Barum". The pictures in the ad for sure shows real  Rubenas.
 The black and red ones are still available for a similar price at legit sources- as where the white ones before they phased out.
I'm curiuos what happens next and keep my fingers crossed you guys receive some rubber 

The website promoting the sales itself is apparently US-based:









						Are Weforwildt.com Reviews Real or Fake?
					

Visitors have questioned if Weforwildt is a scam or legit website. Weforwildt.com was created on Jun  4th, 2021. Read our full investigation & real customer reviews.



					preventingtruthdecay.org


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## cyclingday

Hmmmmm!🤔
I got the email confirmation, and sure enough, it’s from China.
No unusual activity, but it definitely seems a bit fishy.
Odd to run a scam on Rubena tires.
How many people are actually looking for those tires?
Maybe 10 or 20 in the whole World?
Hmmmmmm!🤔


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## gkeep

My wife and I have both been trying to research this website and what I came up with on a Canadian site is the following that suggests this is a guy living on the Nebraska/South Dakota border called Valentine.

Domain Name: weforwildt.com
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.namesilo.com
Registrar URL: https://www.namesilo.com/
Updated Date: 2021-06-05T07:00:00Z
Creation Date: 2021-06-04T07:00:00Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2022-06-04T07:00:00Z
Registrar: NameSilo, LLC
Registrar IANA ID: 1479
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@namesilo.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4805240066
Reseller: domain manage
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: James Jordan
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: 249 Andy Street
Registrant City: Valentine
Registrant State/Province: SD
Registrant Postal Code: 69201
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone: +1.6053786551
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: riniccenteol32@gmail.com
Registry Admin ID:
Admin Name: James Jordan
Admin Organization:
Admin Street: 249 Andy Street
Admin City: Valentine
Admin State/Province: SD
Admin Postal Code: 69201
Admin Country: US

I had the same thought that if someone were setting up a scam why would it be with a low demand and low price item like bike tires? Woud'nt you want to sell something for $$$ on every transaction. Hoping I haven't lead everyone into a scam but I'm really suspicious at this point. Never been scammed online up to now but there is always the first time...


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## FreedomMachinist

The thing is: scammers take random items - copying legit offers from the internet and pretent to sell them - not too expensive- otherwise people would hesitate...
I had a simliar thing on Amazon: a Mini Lathe for a really good price -offered via the official Amazon website, on Amazon Marketplace.
I clicked "buy" and received a payment demand.
What made me suspicius was that the wording sounded not right, smelled like "google translate" - I did not pay and instead asked for some kind of feedback/answer from the seller- I did received an answer, but it didn't relate at all to my inquiry at all - the same answer, over and over.
I assume this whole thing runs automated, including setting up the ads (copy &paste from other sources)

After some googleing I found a telephone number of the real word store and it turned out the store was legit, but not the Amazon Sales offer - they never used Amazon and someone hijacked their good name. The Lady told me this had been going on for some time and Amazon did not do anything to stop it...


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## cyclingday




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## New Mexico Brant

New Mexico Brant said:


> Check your Paypal or credit card; your money just went to China.  I bought 3 pairs; they did the same $99 thing.  I checked the Paypal and they billed $113.80; the company name was just Chinese characters.



Update on this transaction.  Here is what I received for my $113.80 spent; I just got off the phone with Paypal and they have finally identified this company as a fraudulent vendor and are in the process of suspending their account.  The agent said I would be getting my money back.


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## cyclingday

Thanks for the update, Brant.
Nothing received here, either.
I just pulled the rip cord as well.
Uggh!
I was really hoping we’d get those tires.
😢


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## gkeep

Such a drag...

Somewhere there must be a forgotten stash of those tires.


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## cyclingday

Yeah, I just got the refund from PayPal.
They were good about looking into it.
It still seems strange, that of all the scams to run, they’d choose something so obscure as Rubena tires for obsolete G&J rims.
I can just see these guys sitting around in a cigar smoke filled room, saying, these antique bike guys want those tires so bad, they’ll believe just about anything.
Muuuaaaahhhhhh!


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## David Brown

I can see why some of you want to use your G &J rims but can't figure out why you would not just get Stutzman new wood rims. That take modern tires that are available and fit no problem. My self am sold on new Rms . It's just not worth looking for original wood rims if you want to ride it. Just my take on this. And I understand your using original  rims. Been at this too long I guess.
Dave


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## cyclingday

Well, for me, the love affair started with this bike.
When found, it still had its original color matched, steel G&J clincher rims.



Unfortunately, tires that fit those rims seemed to be unobtainable.
The consensus was, that if you wanted to actually ride the bike, then you needed to re lace the wheels with modern rims.
I was somewhat resigned to doing just that, but I had this nagging feeling that I shouldn’t do that to such a nice original condition bike.
A friend of mine clued me in to the possibility that there might be tires that fit that type of rim over in Europe.
We found a distributor in Germany that carried the Rubena brand tires, from the Czech Republic, that were specifically made to fit the old G&J rims exactly as they were originally designed to do.
So, I ordered a set, not expecting them to fit so perfectly.
After about a year of searching, I felt like I had won the lottery, when the tires arrived, and I mounted them to the original rims.
I do understand the whole wood rim dilemma, because the original wood G&J rims would be a bit sketchy to run at a high enough pressure for riding.
I had a 1927 Excelsior that had the wood type G&J rims with the steel clincher liners.
Those rims were great!
Unfortunately, they are beyond scarce, so if your bike doesn’t already have them, it’s unlikely that your going to be able to equip it with them.



The steel G&J’s are not exactly plentiful, but they were heavy duty, and very well made, so if you’re lucky enough to find a set, chances are, that they are still very useable.
I guess for me, it’s about keeping that neat old bike as original as possible.
The idea of putting a modern rim on a 100 year old bicycle just doesn’t seem right.
If I’m going to do that, then I’ll just break out the OCLV110 Carbon, Trek Madone, and go for a ride.
But hey, that’s just me.


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## jimbo53

It seems realistic and affordable choices for rideable 28” wheelsets are getting harder and harder to find. 
Redline 1968 is selling this 20’s Dayton with British 28” clincher rims laced to ND hubs and easy to source 28 x 1 1/2” tires.
I recently bought a 1921 Shelby with incorrect 26” wheelset, but came with 28” British rims, ND hubs and spokes. It also came with NOS BF Goodrich Silvertown 28 x 11/2” tires and tubes. These parts are right now at my LBS getting laced up. Excited to see how these look and ride.


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## corbettclassics

My client and I are doing a deal on this one >






He's going to keep this one and hang it on his wall >>>>>>>>>


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## New Mexico Brant

David Brown said:


> I can see why some of you want to use your G &J rims but can't figure out why you would not just get Stutzman new wood rims. That take modern tires that are available and fit no problem. My self am sold on new Rms . It's just not worth looking for original wood rims if you want to ride it. Just my take on this. And I understand your using original  rims. Been at this too long I guess.
> Dave



If a bicycle calls for metal G & J rims why put something on that is not correct?  Or new?  All the WW1 Military bicycles call for these (the metal version), they were also an expensive upgrade option as well for many bicycles for a couple decades.  I guess these are for the handful of purists who want to stay period correct and have something that has proper patina and age.

I understand your point David; Stutzman's product is fantastic and is very rideable.  My issue is people who use his rims but on patina bikes; most often you can spot them across the aisle (mostly due to jenky patina jobs on the new rims).  There are exceptions of course, the patina finish Peter Deen puts on Stutzman rims is indiscernible from period rims.  Kind of like people using modern bolts with the hardness/strength codes on period restorations...I just cannot figure out why people do that, those codes are so easy to grind off.

By the way, the 100 year old G & J metal rims ride great!


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## David Brown

Your point taken Brant. It is always great to find a complete bike as original as can be and keep it that . It is only original once.


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## Walters_Alex

Brant, I saw that old post of the yours from 2014 of the deep deep drop Major Taylor handlebars. To bad I had not gotten into fixie riding sooner in life, which got me intrested in vintage racing bicycles. They would have looked cool as $*#T on my 1898 Bethel racing bicycle I am working on right now with the help of Mr. Dave Brown......Small world eh! The original handlebars are toast. The bicycle will only be used as a display piece; a work of art to look @. I would ride it around the track a couple times at a special event but that's about it. The bars would bust open my ongoing gaglion cyst problem......Maybe that would be a good thing though🤣 I will stick with riding my main workhorse ride which is a 1949 Merlin Brothers UK track bike with SOMA Fabrications' take off of the Jack Lauterwasser handlebars with a modern twist.....    Cheers, Alex (aka, Runner Alex)


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## gtdohn

If anyone is interested, I have a set of these G&J clinchers for sale right now in the for sale section.
Thanks...  Tires too.


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## Wildeman

Desperately seeking a G&J 24" beaded tire wheel for the front of my 1892 G&J ladies bike. I will lace up something to work in the mean time with a modern tire but I would like to make it original. Also were the rims painted or nickeled?


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## New Mexico Brant

Wildeman said:


> Desperately seeking a G&J 24" beaded tire wheel for the front of my 1892 G&J ladies bike. I will lace up something to work in the mean time with a modern tire but I would like to make it original. Also were the rims painted or nickeled?



Yes they were offered painted and with nickel plating.


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## Wildeman

Brant, thanks for responding. Was that nickeled plated OR painted or was it nickel plated with paint on top of the nickel. Sorry to be so nit picky. Just trying to make it as right as possible.


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## New Mexico Brant

I have seen all three combinations.  Solid paint, no nickel; nickel without paint, and painted striping on nickel base.


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## locomotion

in my NOS rack of 31 wood rims, there are a few GJ clinchers in there, unfortunately all for 28" wheels
all painted








						Sold - deleted | Archive (sold)
					

deleted




					thecabe.com


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## Jollyride

Great information everyone! 

Hello, my name is Steve and I am a BIKEAHOLIC.

I am a new comer to the Cabe, this is my discovery from this year past with teens and 20s metal clinchers from the 28 inch category.

With all wooden rims aside, the all metal rim that Brant is referencing appears to be, a 630 ISO which will fit a 27 x 1 1/4 tire. 700C/622 tires are too tight, will not fit, the 635 ISO or 28x 1 1/2 tires are too large. I've tried 3 sets of the all metal ones here , no luck with 622s or 635s. The challenge with 27x 1/4 tires, there are very few choices available.
The Rubenas are quite nice however they appear to be available in 28 x 1 1/2 only.

With this stated, I am curious if there were all metal clad rims similar to Brant's post that may have been both 630 or 635.  

Ordered some tires from Heinz at Velo Classic-de. , Some nice options, however not many 630s.choices available. Curious what ya'll might be using for your 28 riders. Any domestic 28 clincher tire resources will be highly appreciated. Shipping costs plus duty costs are through the roof now.

Thanks!

Steve


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## New Mexico Brant

Jollyride said:


> Great information everyone!
> 
> Hello, my name is Steve and I am a BIKEAHOLIC.
> 
> I am a new comer to the Cabe, this is my discovery from this year past with teens and 20s metal clinchers from the 28 inch category.
> 
> With all wooden rims aside, the all metal rim that Brant is referencing appears to be, a 630 ISO which will fit a 27 x 1 1/4 tire. 700C/622 tires are too tight, will not fit, the 635 ISO or 28x 1 1/2 tires are too large. I've tried 3 sets of the all metal ones here , no luck with 622s or 635s. The challenge with 27x 1/4 tires, there are very few choices available.
> The Rubenas are quite nice however they appear to be available in 28 x 1 1/2 only.
> 
> With this stated, I am curious if there were all metal clad rims similar to Brant's post that may have been both 630 or 635.
> 
> Ordered some tires from Heinz at Velo Classic-de. , Some nice options, however not many 630s.choices available. Curious what ya'll might be using for your 28 riders. Any domestic 28 clincher tire resources will be highly appreciated. Shipping costs plus duty costs are through the roof now.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Steve



Hi Steve,

Many of us are using the Rubena 28 by 1 1/2 on these G & J metal rims.  They used to be readily available in cream and black.  @cyclingday discovered them at: www.classic-cycle.com
They now only seem to have the red and brown colors in stock.  Maybe someone else can chime-in to which other tires fit these rims.

Below is a link to the brown (the reds are 10 Euro cheaper









						Beaded Edge Tire / Tire 28 x 1 1/2 Brown
					

Beaded Edge Tire 28 x 1 1/2 Colour: brown Outstanding quality, fits on Your oldtimer bicycle with suitable beaded edge rims. 28 x 1 1/2 beaded…




					classic-cycle.com


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## SKPC

Found this early rim web surfing. 1908-10.




It reads on the lefthand side "Price reduced to $35 per pair, including rims".


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## The Spokemaster

Torrington double butted spokes in your wheels


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## Barnegatbicycles

Not g&j but still neat.


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