# new monark 5 bar



## newbee (Sep 17, 2008)

check out my new monark 5 bar! i think everything is original on it except the rear hub which is a bendix. im pretty sure i need a new departure. has anyone seen a delta battery box like this one? it is correct for the era? let me know what you guys think!


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## Oldbikes (Sep 17, 2008)

*Congrats!*

Great score!  Very nice orig bike.   However, the battery box is not period correct.


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## newbee (Sep 18, 2008)

thanks! do you know what era the battery box came from?


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## Aeropsycho (Sep 18, 2008)

*Are your ribs sore?*

I figured you had a 5 Bar... because you always ask a question...then comes the HOOK!  BAM!!!.... so where do you live that all these cool bikes keep ending up at your house??? !!!!!! $##@#^@^ There. 

OK now you need a rack for a 5 Bar.... not too hard to find... I would not put down the battery box it is the right era just a accessory! maybe the tank is rusty...inside 

It looks complete except for the rack 

J!a!m!i!e!

!


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## newbee (Sep 18, 2008)

i live in southern california. they just keep popping up! are you sure about the rack because look at this picture: 
http://whizzerick.com/monark_5bar-tb.html
my bike is exactly like this one: rank, sproket, seat...
did different years have different racks? i was told mine is a 37'


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## Classicriders (Sep 18, 2008)

I have seen those racks on 5-bars. I would paint it satin black, distress it a bit and your set.  I would remove the battery box mainly because it's not hooked up to anything, like handlebar mount horn or light.  
Great bike for sure!  Man, there have been some really nice original bikes popping up on here lately, that prewar Rollfast with 2spd is another great example.


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## newbee (Sep 18, 2008)

i knew it! thanks! i would love to get those cool handle bars that you can also mount on the center brace and the butterfly stand but i dont think i will. Im kinda questioning if it is original paint or not because honestly there isnt a straight line in the paint scheme. I know quality control wasnt great back then but man, its bad. I dont see any paint underneath this paint so maybe it is original paint. i dont no... how much do you think it is worth as is?


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## Classicriders (Sep 18, 2008)

I have seen these bikes with two different racks, both of which are of the nine hole variety.


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## AntonyR (Sep 18, 2008)

Dang Jeff, you keep out-doing me on the bike scene. Yeah, as cool as that battery box is, it's kinda out of place on that bike. Put it on one of the other fricken kool bikes you have and give me the that other battery tube mo-fo!


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## TeamCF (Sep 18, 2008)

Good find.


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## newbee (Sep 18, 2008)

yea ill probably put the battery box on ebay soon as well as the tube that you wanted so be looking out for it. yea bill had the 5 bar in his wearhouse. i have never seen it before until when i got it. you got to catch up! i think im done though. im going for quality bikes, not quantity and i definitely dont have the money to do both!



AntonyR said:


> Dang Jeff, you keep out-doing me on the bike scene. Yeah, as cool as that battery box is, it's kinda out of place on that bike. Put it on one of the other fricken kool bikes you have and give me the that other battery tube mo-fo!


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## Aeropsycho (Sep 18, 2008)

*Not Right....who cares*

It does not matter what I say as soon as someone agrees with you I'm wrong. 

Go ahead and use a Western Flyer rack on your bike.

The paint is not the original but what do I know....maybe it was the same color as the rack?

It is a awesome find, Congrats again... it is worth as much as someone will pay for it.

This is the right 5 bar rack and parts...>>>>>

J A M I E


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## Flat Tire (Sep 18, 2008)

Very cool bikes! First time I've seen handlebars that mount on the crossbar.....


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## balloontirecruiser (Sep 18, 2008)

Hey Aeropsycho,

That bike (in the pcitures you posted above) is gorgeous!


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## Aeropsycho (Sep 18, 2008)

*Nice!*

Yeah that bike is on Dave's site >>> nostalgic.net <<< click on "Monark"

I think it was parted out on ebay I have pictures buried somewhere...

I am looking for a good picture of the rear suspension model 

J A M I E


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## newbee (Sep 18, 2008)

well i guess im kinda biased towards it being the right rack but im still valueing your opinion. what are the chances that two different people decided to put the same wrong rack on a 5 bar though? there were two different types of handle bars used...why couldn't there be two types of racks used? 

did you notice that the "correct" rack is on classicriders colson?



Aeropsycho said:


> It does not matter what I say as soon as someone agrees with you I'm wrong.
> 
> Go ahead and use a Western Flyer rack on your bike.
> 
> ...


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## RMS37 (Sep 18, 2008)

Regarding the Stromberger 5-Bar...

There have been a few Monark Superframes restored in the hobby. Dave Stromberger?s restoration stands at the forefront. The bike was sold to a Seattle collector and is still together. The owner brought it out to show at the recent Ratrod build-off event where it took first place in the stock category.

For those interested, there is a scan of an original ad depicting the two position handlebars on Dave?s site.

Phil


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## Aeropsycho (Sep 18, 2008)

*Rake.*

I have only seen the rack you have on the bike in the pictures you posted and that guy has been wrong before on a lot of his bikes it is in the Evolution of the bicycle book #1 as well it sold at Copake 2 years ago?... all the ads I have seen show the teardrop 9 hole similar to a Schwinn I have one (original Blue) with a tail light and the other has been blasted with no light missing reflector hole and indent I have this rack in 6-7 similar versions on different bikes McCully handed them out like candy at holloween...

The rack on this Colson I don't believe is correct, for that bike it was a Very Rare tube rack.

The rack on the Colson is one of the correct ones for your 5 Bar 

Your rack is primered your bike has been black painted over the original like a kid restored it.

Why didn't they paint the rack black too???

Monarks were kind of all over the place on some parts, not much to go by...

I will try to russel up a picture or two.

There are still collectors out there with SECRETS!:eek: 

J A M I E


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## Classicriders (Sep 18, 2008)

First off, the rack on the Colson is definitely correct, I have the lit that shows this very model, complete with Seiss plunger horn.
Regarding the Monark rack, I simply stated that I have seen both racks on the 5-bar.  I posted a pic of my Colson to show that racks are not always exclusive to one bike.  Sometimes, but not always.
When researching anything, there is nothing like literature, but it isn;t always 100%  I have seen a lot of odd things over the years, like two different tank halves on the same bike?  36 Zep frame in original paint with one half having vertical vents, and the other half having horizontal vents.  Original paint, unmolested bike too, go figure?
A prewar Monark blister tank will fit a Schwinn DX frame dead nuts!!  You can fit either frame with either tank, but they are totally different manufacturers, what the heck? Right?
There are many more examples I could list here, but I will save them for Classic Bicycle News.


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## Aeropsycho (Sep 18, 2008)

*Maybe...*

Maybe you should do a section on collectors secrets too... 

There's not much literature on either bike I know what you are saying and advertising firms are like Lawyers... I usually go by if it has the same exact paint (original) or who owned it a collector or some person that has no idea or if it was anywhere around Newport beach in the 70-80s

That rack went on a lot of bikes... I have 37-38 Firestone SS with a similar one!

J A M I E


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## newbee (Sep 18, 2008)

hey! whats newport got to do with anything! i go surfing there!


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 18, 2008)

first thing is, Great find!! next I tend toward Jamie, the rack clearly was added to the bike as it is a different color. this doesn't necessarily mean it is incorrect though I know as a Huffman collector that that McCaulley rack was commonly used on higher end bikes from several makers including Monark and Colson. I also have had the impression that Monark was particularly fond of this rack during the period in question as I have seen several of them (Monarks that is not necessarily 5 bars). here is a photo of the rear of the one at Chestnut hollow, hope it helps. I think it is an original paint bike. the photo of the rear is actually cropped from a photo of one of the other bikes there when I visited earlier this year. the rack you have can be easily explained by the possibility that the guy who had your bike before you got it put it on based on the same photo of the same bike you saw with that rack, or some such other thing. that is one of the problems with the old bike hobby some of the guys put things on bikes and then claim they were there when they got them and later who knows? the evolution of the bicycle books are particularly bad about this. lots of incorrect bikes in them portrayed as correct. hope this helps
Scott


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## Classicriders (Sep 19, 2008)

Just to show that I have no secrets 
The rack that is shown on the Monark in the literature is known as a "McCauley No 85"
Regarding the rack on my Colson.  Aerocycle was partly right about the rare tubular rack.  It was the rack found on the loaded Colson Imperial of the same model year.  The Imperial would have had a Delta hornlight, waterfall badge, and Clipper Speedometer among other things.  My bike is just the Standard model, so it was very basic, didn't even have a horn in the tank, that is why it has the plunger horn.  Funny, it came with aluminum head and tail light though, but no chainguard?  The guard on my bike was added by the original owner when purchased, which was common.
Anyways, other interesting info on bikes include regional differences.  A bike could vary in paint schemes and accessories based on which part of the country it was purchased.


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## pgroah (Sep 19, 2008)

*5-Bar details*

Newbee awesome new bike thanks for posting your images, and Newport is cool I lived there. Thanks to everyone for the information posted about 5-bars, any information is greatly appreciated. 

I have two questions for anyone who may know.  Fender braces, I have seen a few different configurations. Are flat braces correct or the stamped?  Are they mounted on the axle like Dave's, or the forks as seen in the wizzerricks photos?

Second question , Butterfly stands are cool but it seems all the period advertisments have drop stands which is correct?

Another question comes to mind. Dave's bike has the cool Flowcycle chainguard, Newbees is the one I see in period advertisments. I have one of each which is correct.


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## newbee (Sep 20, 2008)

thanks man!

that chain guard is a 40' flowcycle i think thats what he said in the summary. he said he just added it for looks and it not correct. my guard is correct. not sure on the braces but i know mine are stock.

heres a question: whats the deal with some having skip tooth and some having regular sprockets?


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 20, 2008)

most people don't realize that 1/2" pitch chain (regular) has been around since the turn of the 20th century and that also 1" pitch chain was used up into the 1950's. I don't know why but they seemed to use both in a rather arbitrary way.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



here's a page from a 1917 Hawthorne catalog showing 1/2" pitch chain.



Scott


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 20, 2008)

here's a 1939 Huffman:



here's 1940 Huffman:




and finally here's a 1953 Schwinn with 1" pitch:



Scott


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## Adamtinkerer (Sep 20, 2008)

These are the things that get nutty in this hobby! Look at Scott's 39 and 40 Huffman ads, bikes shown with _MONARK_ sprockets! I bought a mid 50s Snyder built Hawthorne that came with one, though the crank had all the typical Rollfast style crank dust caps and hardware. Add to that that many aftermarket items look almost exactly like factory items, especially 9 hole racks and wing chainguards! And speaking of those guards, i'm told Shelby, Monark, and Colson's wing guards were all similar, but slightly different! Furthermore, many ads were illustrated, so there's artistic license to deal with!! At this point, we can only say a part is "plausible" until an original paint bike surfaces and confirms it! ~Aadm


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 20, 2008)

one thing you have to keep in mind is that many of the bike manufacturers considered things like sprockets pedals racks fenders stems and bars accessories. nobody expects a Monark to come with Monark hubs do they? on Huffman they used McCaulley racks and fenders, wald stems and chainguards and sprockets, Morrow and New Departure hubs Torrington bars, Messenger pedals and seats, Delta lights and horns, etc. etc... so when you say Monark sprocket it's not exactly accurate, Huffman has used that sprocket from the '30's as had Monark. neither made the sprocket, both used the same sprocket I assume from the same accessory maker and it was most likely made by wald as that was Huffmans typical vendor for that kind of thing. later Schwinn used certain accessory makers and put Schwinn approved on them. why do you think they were labeled Schwinn approved not Schwinn made? not that many brands made that kind of stuff themselves.
Scott


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## Adamtinkerer (Sep 21, 2008)

Good point, Scott! I refer to it as the "Monark sprocket" since that's what it's most commonly seen on. ~Adam


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## Aeropsycho (Sep 22, 2008)

*This ad will confuse you more!*



pgroah said:


> Newbee awesome new bike thanks for posting your images, and Newport is cool I lived there. Thanks to everyone for the information posted about 5-bars, any information is greatly appreciated.
> 
> I have two questions for anyone who may know.  Fender braces, I have seen a few different configurations. Are flat braces correct or the stamped?  Are they mounted on the axle like Dave's, or the forks as seen in the wizzerricks photos?
> 
> ...




I have fenders with both flat braces and stamped... flat are older

I have three different welded frames

I have 4 different Butterfly Stands... two will fit the frame I have seen 6 different designs...for silverkings:eek: 

I think the right guard is a McCully larger wing this ad shows a flow cycle guard.... I have sprockets with the holes for the "FLOW" guards on other original Silver kings bike models too...

From dave's site...the ad  and pics... NOT MINE!

Why is there a Dayton type spocket... we can go on and on.... 

J A M I E


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## pgroah (Sep 23, 2008)

*monark 5-bar*

Dude you got the stuff.  My restorations could use a butterfly stand for the tank model like yours. Let me know if you can spare the goods.
Paul


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## Dave Stromberger (Aug 3, 2009)

The Monark 5-bar that I built several years ago utilized the best of the '39 and '40 models. So that bike shouldn't be followed as gospel. It's all legit 5-bar stuff though, but its a 39-40 hybrid.  And yes the bike is still alive and living in the Seattle area as Phil stated. The bike that was parted out on eBay a few years back (which was burgandy and gold also) was an old Castelli bike that I think was restored by Leon Dixon back in the 80's.


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