# Pickers and Sellers! Please refrain from "Cleaning up" bikes & parts!



## fordmike65 (Sep 30, 2019)

I recently picked up a few parts & noticed they had either been OA dipped or been scrubbed clean with steelwool & WD40. PLEASE DON'T DO THIS! Your parts are worth more as-is, especially to those looking for parts that match a bike's patina. Collectors, for the most part, prefer an untouched bike over one that has been de-rusted, wiped down or otherwise cleaned! Just leave it be!!! Rant over


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Sep 30, 2019)

I did the WD40 and steel wool to a rusty Schwinn truss rod fender which turned it into a nice blue and got 60 bucks for my 10 dollar investment.   don't think I will be taking your advice.


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## saladshooter (Sep 30, 2019)

Do not use rotary wire wheels on parts neither! Nothing worse than shiny pits!


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## fordmike65 (Sep 30, 2019)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> I did the WD40 and steel wool to a rusty Schwinn truss rod fender which turned it into a nice blue and got 60 bucks for my 10 dollar investment.   don't think I will be taking your advise.



I'm not the only one who would pay more for a piece that matches my bike. To each their own...


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## Wards Guy.. (Sep 30, 2019)

Completely agree with Mike on this... All my bike have been covered in patina.  I’ll pay up from patina!!


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Sep 30, 2019)

fordmike65 said:


> I'm not the only one who would pay more for a piece that matches my bike. To each thier own...




I couldn't even tell what color the fender was before I did it... thought it was red. it was blue and 95% of the pinstripes were still there.  

my avatar bike is rusty, some day I may put rusty fenders on it, but I would not pay a premium for them.  I already have the matching rusty rack


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## OhioJones (Sep 30, 2019)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> I couldn't even tell what color the fender was before I did it... thought it was red. it was blue and 95% of the pinstripes were still there.
> 
> my avatar bike is rusty, some day I may put rusty fenders on it, but I would not pay a premium for them.  I already have the matching rusty rack




I understand where you're coming from. However, i will gladly pay the premium for a part that not only matches in color, but that can also match the bike. I would rather the part pass for an original and look as if it has been with the bicycle for the duration of its life. Until i figure out how to grow trees that spawn prewar parts, a premium is a well worth price to pay for many of the parts that I may need. 
We have all had those great thoughts and dreams of restoring a bike or two. But then the reality sets in. And now you're stuck holding a number of parts that you would rather not pass along because they're not 100%. They're halfway through the process of being cleaned and set for paint. Like selling a burger without the patty being cooked.


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## Rivnut (Sep 30, 2019)

To each his own.  Live and let live.  Everyone is entitled to his opinion. Come on guys, quit yer bitchin'


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## catfish (Sep 30, 2019)

Never clean anything.


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## highship (Sep 30, 2019)

I understand why people might want to buy a part un-cleaned but what about when you get it? What if it needs to be cleaned up a bit to match the bike it was bought for? Is that ok? How about a complete bike? I find it hard to believe you guys are keeping your bikes with the og dirt...
With that said... it is a different story if the seller is damaging the bike/part when cleaning...


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## OC_Rolling_Art (Sep 30, 2019)

I"m sure in some instances an improvement could be made by cleaning vintage bikes/parts, and bringing back original paint is worth the effort if done carefully, but in most collector circles, cleaning an antique of it's original skin almost certainly ruins the value and collectability of the piece. Dealers of Federalist furniture, pre-Columbian artifacts, old masters or rare coins will all be in agreement that one should never clean anything, ever. Patina takes many decades to acquire and the potential harm to an item's value should in most cases be carefully considered.


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## fordmike65 (Sep 30, 2019)

highship said:


> I understand why people might want to buy a part un-cleaned but what about when you get it? What if it needs to be cleaned up a bit to match the bike it was bought for? Is that ok? How about a complete bike? I find it hard to believe you guys are keeping your bikes with the og dirt...
> With that said... it is a different story if the seller is damaging the bike/part when cleaning...



I'm referring to pickers and others who find untouched originals & plan to sell. I've seen several nice bikes overcleaned, wire-wheeled, polished & even clear-coated in hopes of increasing its resale value. Removing rust many times leaves scratches, scuffs & bare metal that ends up looking worse than it did originally. The consensus here seems to be leave it as-is if you decide to sell. Let the new owner decide how to proceed in cleaning it....or leaving it alone. Some may want a shined up part or bike, while... believe it or not, others like the "as-found" look, keeping the dust & dirt intact. I can see cleaning up a super rusty painted piece to bring out some of its original color & shine...but there might also be someone out there looking for that perfectly patina'd fender or guard to complete an original paint project.


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## John G04 (Sep 30, 2019)

fordmike65 said:


> I'm referring to pickers and others who find untouched originals & plan to sell. I've seen several nice bikes overcleaned, wire-wheeled, polished & even clear-coated in hopes of increasing its resale value. Removing rust many times leaves scratches, scuffs & bare metal that ends up looking worse than it did originally. The consensus here seems to be leave it as-is if you decide to sell. Let the new owner decide how to proceed in cleaning it....or leaving it alone. Some may want a shined up part or bike, while... believe it or not, others like the "as-found" look, keeping the dust & dirt intact. I can see cleaning up a super rusty painted piece to bring out some of its original color & shine...but there might also be someone out there looking for that perfectly patina'd fender or guard to complete an original paint project.




I agree with that, if your buying a part or a bike and you plan on keeping it for awhile and riding it alot, make it as nice as possible, but if you find something your planing to sell soon why limit your audience by cleaning it up and possibly messing it up instead of just selling a nice untouched piece


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## DonChristie (Sep 30, 2019)

Divided camps for sure! As long as your not damaging the paint or natural patina, i believe cleaning it very carefully is good. I used to restore alot of antique wood pieces to resell. Ppl would say, leave it be! The truth is no one would put a beat up piece of wood furniture in their house! A clean bike is a happy bike!


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## Glenn Rhein (Sep 30, 2019)

The definition of patina is a green film that forms on bronze or copper. However this word has been used to describe a natural surface aging process due to a variety of things (dirt, sun fading, ect.). Rust is not a patina in my book.


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## hoofhearted (Sep 30, 2019)

*Tiz a fine point of balance to clear the field
of debris … all the while retaining the patina.*

*Dirt is not patina.  Oxidation is.*

*….. *patric


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Sep 30, 2019)

I always sandblast my old parts to the bone!


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## Boris (Sep 30, 2019)

You make a very simple point Mike! It amazes me how some people can be missing it so completely!


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## Archie Sturmer (Sep 30, 2019)

I thought that verdigris was the green one, (not limited to Colson bikes).


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## OldSkipTooth (Sep 30, 2019)

In general Mike is right, in the long run if you keep cleaning things you will just have cleaned items and you won’t have any history to reflect on. Don’t forget repatination, the process by which some parts of metal or wood are brought back to match the whole piece, or the overall appearance.
In God we crust.


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## OC_Rolling_Art (Sep 30, 2019)

DonChristie said:


> Divided camps for sure! As long as your not damaging the paint or natural patina, i believe cleaning it very carefully is good. I used to restore alot of antique wood pieces to resell. Ppl would say, leave it be! The truth is no one would put a beat up piece of wood furniture in their house! A clean bike is a happy bike!




I can totally agree with all of that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hellshotrods (Sep 30, 2019)




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## hellshotrods (Sep 30, 2019)




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## barneyguey (Sep 30, 2019)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> I always sandblast my old parts to the bone!
> 
> View attachment 1072051



Ha Ha Ha, I love it!

That's what I did to begin with. I thought I needed to repaint everything and have all the chrome parts over chromed. I repainted some pretty nice original bikes.

My next phase was the steal wool and WD 40 method. I scratched my share of paint.

Then I started using various solvents to remove the over paint. I wiped lots of pinstripes and other highlights off doing this.

Now I'm with Mike, I like them as original as possible. I wash them with soap and water and call it good. It's amazing how much a bath helps sometimes!

Who knows what my next phase will be?

Live and let live!


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## vincev (Sep 30, 2019)

fordmike65 said:


> I'm referring to pickers and others who find untouched originals & plan to sell. I've seen several nice bikes overcleaned, wire-wheeled, polished & even clear-coated in hopes of increasing its resale value. Removing rust many times leaves scratches, scuffs & bare metal that ends up looking worse than it did originally. The consensus here seems to be leave it as-is if you decide to sell. Let the new owner decide how to proceed in cleaning it....or leaving it alone. Some may want a shined up part or bike, while... believe it or not, others like the "as-found" look, keeping the dust & dirt intact. I can see cleaning up a super rusty painted piece to bring out some of its original color & shine...but there might also be someone out there looking for that perfectly patina'd fender or guard to complete an original paint project.



I agree.Leave it for the new owner to do what he wants with the bike/part.


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## hellshotrods (Sep 30, 2019)

36 grit flap wheel and 11Amp grinder ,


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Sep 30, 2019)

saladshooter said:


> Do not use rotary wire wheels on parts neither! Nothing worse than shiny pits!




 shiny pits is beautiful .... it's OK I'm the new owner.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Sep 30, 2019)

I WD 40'd the rust off that fender just too see how well it worked, not to resell it. I bought it to cut the tail off to fix another fender, that's how bad it looked.


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## rollfaster (Oct 1, 2019)

Im the middle of the road on this topic...kinda depends on the bike in question. Natural patina is a true blessing and shouldn’t be disturbed. I feel this way with original prewar bikes and parts, but if we’re talking 50’s-60’s stuff.. probably fair game to clean them up.


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## partsguy (Oct 1, 2019)

hoofhearted said:


> *Tiz a fine point of balance to clear the field
> of debris … all the while retaining the patina.*
> 
> *Dirt is not patina.  Oxidation is.*
> ...




Yes. This. Nothing wrong with bringing out the *original finish *but wire wheeling and spray painting are naughty, *bad, and baudy.*


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## Mymando (Oct 1, 2019)

Well I recently acquired a phantom frame that some painted over the original paint with black paint some time ago? You can scrape it in some places without damaging the original paint but in other areas the paint seems to be more adhered my question is how does one go about getting that paint off and not damaging the paint below? Is there any kind of solvent or remover that any one can recommend for this process? Would be greatly appreciated! Thanks


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## Freqman1 (Oct 1, 2019)

Mymando said:


> Well I recently acquired a phantom frame that some painted over the original paint with black paint some time ago? You can scrape it in some places without damaging the original paint but in other areas the paint seems to be more adhered my question is how does one go about getting that paint off and not damaging the paint below? Is there any kind of solvent or remover that any one can recommend for this process? Would be greatly appreciated! Thanks




Search the resto section for "Goof Off" and removing paint. Plenty of tips there. V/r Shawn


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## cyclingday (Oct 1, 2019)

I’ve bought plenty of parts that were flipped within a week of their picking, that had been cleaned, rolled, re riveted, that I would’ve preferred to have been able to do myself.
I won’t mention any specific examples, because I would probably offend some of the people reading this thread.
To Mikes original point, if you’re just intending to flip it, which in most cases, you know you are.
THEN DON’T FRICKEN MESS WITH IT!
It doesn’t help the sale to doll it up.
We’re a somewhat savvy bunch, and would actually be more enticed by something that looks, as found original.
Just think, if Neil Armstrong had looked out of the Lunar Module, and someone had swept the place and left out a Welcome  mat.
They would of just fired off the retro rockets and gone home.
We like the untouched, so that if we the collectors, are going to keep it for our collections, then we are the ones, who get to decide how much if any cleaning and detailing is necessary.


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## OC_Rolling_Art (Oct 1, 2019)

rollfaster said:


> Im the middle of the road on this topic...kinda depends on the bike in question. Natural patina is a true blessing and shouldn’t be disturbed. I feel this way with original prewar bikes and parts, but if we’re talking 50’s-60’s stuff.. probably fair game to clean them up.



A reasonable position when considering that prewar stuff is fairly scarce. So many were scrapped/melted for the war effort, and we all know how rough boys can be - bikes were jumped, ghost ridden, or worse - and some tanks, fenders and racks became casualties that were removed until only a bare bones rider remained. Prewar bikes were only 40 years old in 1980 (not too long ago), and in 20 years (not too long from now) a '59 Phantom will be 80 years old, and postwar bikes with OG paint will be scarce. It also depends on what you're doing... I'm doing a dist-restoration soon and will be sand-blasting some pieces to get many layers of crud off so I can match them to OG paint parts.


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## rickyd (Oct 1, 2019)

Odd as it may seem I have come to appreciate some of the older repainted stuff and their “patina”


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## 3-speeder (Oct 1, 2019)

I love to find a nice untouched original bike with the hub and chain and other parts all covered in old caked on grease and the rest of the bike dirty and dusty. I cringe when someone says that they "tried to fix it up a little".  Let me decide what needs to be done.


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## CeeBee (Oct 1, 2019)

How about the sellers that say "The original tires were a little bit cracked so I got some new whitewalls from Walmart.  I can't believe the original ones still held air, though."


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## highship (Oct 1, 2019)

I challenge you folks who say don't clean it to post pics of your bikes. I'll bet you jazzed them up at one point. I think what it is, is that we all want untouched stuff so we can be the first ones to screw with it. 
I will concede that if you find something good with original dirt and the intent is to flip than leave the dirt. But if I'm buying it with intentions of keeping it, whether that be a day, a week, or 50 years I'm cleaning it up.

Interesting topic, I enjoy hearing everyone's opinions.


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## Frank and Pam Skid Kings (Oct 1, 2019)

I dunno. As far as complete bikes go I can see both sides. I've taken crappy paint off and revealed what's left of nice original color and the rust and scars that got painted over. That's where I leave it, after a  coat of Meguiars 21 wax sealant. Protects the original paint nicely. In my book brings it back to a nice original. Replace bad screws if needed with period ones, and just kinda go over the bike. Most of these bikes were abused for years and need a little love to be proud again ! On the other hand I have a bike parked in a basement in 1948 with taped up flat tires and lots of gunk. To me that is a time piece and I just have to leave it and get my enjoyment from looking at it. After all I've said I do agree with Mike and know what he's talking about. You don't want to get ocd and clean and buff everything till you know what it's purpose will be. I stay away from restored. Not everything in this world has to be shiny new perfect. Hope I didn't offend any $350,000 fiberglass hot rod guys, but I guess everyone enjoys things differently.


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## 3-speeder (Oct 1, 2019)

CeeBee said:


> How about the sellers that say "The original tires were a little bit cracked so I got some new whitewalls from Walmart.  I can't believe the original ones still held air, though."



Yeah. Augh!  Or, " the old seat was uncomfortable so I got a new one". Did they keep the old one? Of course not.


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## scrubbinrims (Oct 1, 2019)

A part of what has made this hobby enjoyable FOR ME is the disassembly and cleaning of bicycles in my collection to the bearing.
We are all looking for that natural state, untampered with condition so we can control what's next... my next is different than others, and if so, get there beforehand.
Chris


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Oct 1, 2019)

As For Me........................I think each bike has to be evaluated individually .     Some I would say leave alone.............Some may need a few parts , and a tune up to be "Use able" .    Some , like in the case of my Straight Bar ........................Needs to have a Fresh Start because of how BAD it had been treated ( And Painted ) over the years.            I feel like I want to make the bike " Better" than when I got it ............(most of the time.)    MANY are not ride able until you do SOMETHING to 'em to get them to be ride able ..............which may require parts from a donor bike..............which I think happens a lot .       I think you just have to find that balance between leaving  a survivor as is , or messing with it  ,  such as cleaning it or trying to bring out it's best qualities.     To each his own .        As far as Pickers sellin' their stuff.......................I agree with @fordmike65 ..................Please don't clean it.................I'll make that decision.


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## razinhellcustomz (Oct 1, 2019)

OldSkipTooth said:


> In general Mike is right, in the long run if you keep cleaning things you will just have cleaned items and you won’t have any history to reflect on. Don’t forget repatination, the process by which some parts of metal or wood are brought back to match the whole piece, or the overall appearance.
> In God we crust.



I think you mean FAKE patina. Razin.


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## partsguy (Oct 2, 2019)

highship said:


> I challenge you folks who say don't clean it to post pics of your bikes. I'll bet you jazzed them up at one point. I think what it is, is that we all want untouched stuff so we can be the first ones to screw with it.




Basically, everyone wants a virgin


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## Euphman06 (Oct 2, 2019)

But if you don't clean it up, people will nit-pick you down on price because it "needs a lot of work".... I'm on no side of the fence because I've done both, but to each his own I guess.


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## bricycle (Oct 2, 2019)

My GUT is telling me to stay out of this topic.


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## deepsouth (Oct 2, 2019)

bricycle said:


> My GUT is telling me to stay out of this topic.



My exact thoughts as well.


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## Krakatoa (Oct 2, 2019)

fordmike65 said:


> I recently picked up a few parts & noticed they had either been OA dipped or been scrubbed clean with steelwool & WD40. PLEASE DON'T DO THIS! Your parts are worth more as-is, especially to those looking for parts that match a bike's patina. Collectors, for the most part, prefer an untouched bike over one that has been de-rusted, wiped down or otherwise cleaned! Just leave it be!!! Rant over




I value patina intact parts for my own taste however as a seller the shiny stuff seems to go for better money. I see alot of in people in the wanted ads requesting patina and with the unspoken expectations that it will be cheaper. I look forward to the day when I can charge a premium for untouched patina at least on parts.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Oct 2, 2019)

this is a fun thread. sold antiques, collectibles and old car parts for 5 years straight in ebay, besides doing it elsewhere for 20 years before that. this was my job, yet it is now clear I know nothing about selling old stuff. should have come here first, think of all the money this incredible error cost me.


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## fattyre (Oct 2, 2019)

I’m still working on a system to capture and reuse original air that’s in the tires.  Why let that vintage patina’d air go to waste?     I’ll let you guys know what I come up with.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Oct 2, 2019)

fattyre said:


> I’m still working on a system to capture and reuse original air that’s in the tires.  Why let that vintage patina’d air go to waste?     I’ll let you guys know what I come up with.




when original air is not available I just fart into my tires.   only problem is it takes a week to fill them up to full pressure.


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## fattyre (Oct 2, 2019)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> when original air is not available I just fart into my tires.   only problem is it takes a week to fill them up to full pressure.




Ha!  Farts.   That’s where this idea originated.  Who wants some good fart smell to go to waste at the wrong time?


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## RUDY CONTRATTI (Oct 2, 2019)

*Wow.. Page 3 already??  Ive Got nothing to say ,,,My lips are sealed*


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## slick (Oct 2, 2019)

I have the easiest, simplest answer. I've said it all along since day one in this hobby. BUY A COMPLETE BIKE! No need to look for parts to match. And ..... quit making base model bikes deluxe bikes. Instead, save the money and buy the deluxe that already had the tank and rack you desire. One more thing.... NOT ALL BIKES HAD TANKS AND RACKS!! So quit assuming it's missing and walk on by until you see that same bike with those parts and buy that one. It's not rocket science....or maybe it is???????????????


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## Oldnut (Oct 3, 2019)

hoofhearted said:


> *Tiz a fine point of balance to clear the field
> of debris … all the while retaining the patina.*
> 
> *Dirt is not patina.  Oxidation is.*
> ...



bingo


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## Boris (Oct 3, 2019)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> when original air is not available I just fart into my tires.   only problem is it takes a week to fill them up to full pressure.




Do you screw the valve in or just push?


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Oct 3, 2019)

Boris said:


> Do you screw the valve in or just push?




I was born with a threaded sphincter.


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## schwinnbikebobb (Oct 3, 2019)

But if you don't clean it up, people will nit-pick you down on price because it "needs a lot of work".... I'm on no side of the fence because I've done both, but to each his own I guess.


I totally agree with Euphman above statement.   Buyer wanders up and says "It's only worth a nickel since it is so rough"  Put me on the clean up side. (poll)  I don't really deal in the stuff most of you guys want so doesn't really matter.


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## Frank and Pam Skid Kings (Oct 5, 2019)

...and now back to our regular programing.


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## videoranger (Oct 9, 2019)

carefully clean and let it set for a couple years, it will look like a very nice original condition bike


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## Jay81 (Oct 13, 2019)

@fordmike65 it could be worse! Imagine what it would be like if _everything_ was beautifully restored!


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