# Arrow flight made by Shelby



## Gamertech (Sep 5, 2018)

Seeing as everyone wants me to start a new thread here it goes again. I need help with information about this bike I purchased. They say the badge is from 20’s-30’s but the frame is older??? That’s already confusing, I have a hendee Indian bicycle with a similar bottom bracket from 1916.


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## Gamertech (Sep 5, 2018)

The hendee Indian bike from 1916 I was talking about.


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## fordmike65 (Sep 5, 2018)

Very strange one indeed! I'm gonna keep watch on this thread & check up on your progress. I'm sure someone here can help out in identifying it. Good luck!


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## Gamertech (Sep 5, 2018)

O by the way the bottom bracket on the arrow flight has a serial number but also says made in England. Looks like serial number K154021


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## fordmike65 (Sep 5, 2018)

Hmm....now that's odd. Can you take a peek in the frame headtube & check for another set of badge holes? Seems this may be put together together to some extent...or maybe not. Could be the frame never had a badge & someone added the badge & other pieces including the headset from a 30's or so Shelby built bike they had lying around.


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## Gamertech (Sep 5, 2018)

No extra badge holes it does look factory, but I was doing some research on the Shelby company itself and realized there are two companies and the earlier Shelby company which made ideal bikes used steel from England.


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## Freqman1 (Sep 5, 2018)

Maybe one of our resident TOC experts can help with the Shelby? I've not seen that crank hanger before but if it was indeed made in England it certainly isn't a Shelby. Re: your "Hendee" Indian, if in fact, it is an Indian it is Westfield built. Just curious what makes you think 1916? BTW you can post on your Indian in this thread https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/h...tocycle-co-bicycles-information-thread.41878/  V/r Shawn


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## Gamertech (Sep 5, 2018)

Freqman1 said:


> Maybe one of our resident TOC experts can help with the Shelby? I've not seen that crank hanger before but if it was indeed made in England it certainly isn't a Shelby. Re: your "Hendee" Indian, if in fact, it is an Indian it is Westfield built. Just curious what makes you think 1916? BTW you can post on your Indian in this thread https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/h...tocycle-co-bicycles-information-thread.41878/  V/r Shawn






Between 1916 -1923 they used this style of bottom bracket and a buddy of mine has the exact same frame style plus the serial number says what year.


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## Freqman1 (Sep 5, 2018)

Gamertech said:


> Between 1916 -1923 they used this style of bottom bracket and a buddy of mine has the exact same frame style plus the serial number says what year.




If you have cracked the serial number code for the early Westfield built Indians @47jchiggins and myself would be very interested in knowing this. Does your bike still have a badge on it? V/r Shawn


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## Gamertech (Sep 5, 2018)

We are getting off the main topic here and my friend has all that information and as soon as I have it I’ll post it on the Indian post and no my bike didn’t have any badge on there which made me think it wasn’t a Indian at all


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## blasterracing (Sep 5, 2018)

Gamertech said:


> No extra badge holes it does look factory, but I was doing some research on the Shelby company itself and realized there are two companies and the earlier Shelby company which made ideal bikes used steel from England.



I was never aware that Shelby Ideal used steel from England.  I thought it was all local from Shelby Seemless Tube?  

Tim Newmeyer


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## Freqman1 (Sep 5, 2018)

I'm not thinking that is a Shelby bike. Maybe @dnc1 could shed some light on this one. V/r Shawn


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## Gamertech (Sep 5, 2018)

blasterracing said:


> I was never aware that Shelby Ideal used steel from England.  I thought it was all local from Shelby Seemless Tube?
> 
> Tim Newmeyer



I’ll try to find where that was and I’ll post it


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## fordmike65 (Sep 5, 2018)

Gamertech said:


> I’ll try to find where that was and I’ll post it



https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/shelby-help.131234/
I don't believe the Shelby Ideal & the later Shelby that correlates with that badge & headset are related.


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## Gamertech (Sep 5, 2018)

I’ve heard the headset cups are Shelby but the rest of the frame is another question


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## cdrain (Sep 5, 2018)

blasterracing said:


> I was never aware that Shelby Ideal used steel from England.  I thought it was all local from Shelby Seemless Tube?
> 
> Tim Newmeyer



Tim Newmeyer is correct. Ideals were built with steel from the Shelby Seamless Tube. That's the reason Gormully and Jeffrey built the mill in Shelby - to be closer to the source of steel. That factory closed in 1901. 

The Shelby Cycle Frame Builders,  established by Gus Meiselbach, began making frames and forks in 1921. The parts were shipped to Chicago Cycle Supply Co. and possibly others for assembly. The company wasn't called Shelby Cycle Company until 1925.

You can read about the various companies here - https://shelbycyclehistory.org

I know its confusing. I'm working on a book!


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## Gamertech (Sep 5, 2018)

Gamertech said:


> I’ll try to find where that was and I’ll post it


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## Gamertech (Sep 5, 2018)

If they brought technology why not bring material too at least until the steel mill is built


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## Freqman1 (Sep 5, 2018)

Gamertech said:


> If they brought technology why not bring material too at least until the steel mill is built



I would imagine there are a few reasons but most likely cost, not meeting specifications of what they were building, and not matching timeline of venture. I would surmise badge and headset are Shelby but the frame is of English manufacture. V/r Shawn


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## Gamertech (Sep 5, 2018)

Any forums on old toc English bikes?


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## Gamertech (Sep 5, 2018)

Badge was removed to see if there was a decal of some sort or any extra holes but nothing as you can see


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## dnc1 (Sep 5, 2018)

Freqman1 said:


> I'm not thinking that is a Shelby bike. Maybe @dnc1 could shed some light on this one. V/r Shawn



I understand that the USA introduced a general legal requirement for imported goods to show their country of origin in the early 1890's, so that's your earliest date. That's a little bit early for your frame perhaps, I’m guessing late 1890's to teens.
Perhaps whoever made it bought in British made bottom brackets? 
Do you have pictures showing the internal threading on each side?
Interesting!


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## Gamertech (Sep 5, 2018)

Drive side(right side)


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## Gamertech (Sep 5, 2018)

Left side


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## Gamertech (Sep 5, 2018)

Just an extra photo just in case someone notices something I didn’t


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## dnc1 (Sep 5, 2018)

Your "Indian" BB is split, to enable clamping pressure to retain a U.S.A. style shell; your mystery bike is for a three piece chain set obviously, with unusual retaining pin holes.
Do you have a good profile shot of the whole frame?
Also a close-up of the seat binder bolt area might be helpful.
Thanks,
Darren.


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## Gamertech (Sep 5, 2018)

dnc1 said:


> Your "Indian" BB is split, to enable clamping pressure to retain a U.S.A. style shell; your mystery bike is for a three piece chain set obviously, with unusual retaining pin holes.
> Do you have a good profile shot of the whole frame?
> Also a close-up of the seat binder bolt area might be helpful.
> Thanks,
> Darren.


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## Gamertech (Sep 6, 2018)

So with the help of some friends on fb found out the badge and frame are two different years. The badge is from around 1934 the frame is older but no clue as to what it is. I guess I’ll call it a mystery bike


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## Bikermaniac (Sep 21, 2021)

Gamertech said:


> The hendee Indian bike from 1916 I was talking about.
> 
> View attachment 864211




Hi, I ran into this topic a little bit late but nevertheless I would like to contribute with my two cents. As far as I know Indian didn't offered the split bottom bracket until 1917, at least not in the catalogs. There's another way to tell if this Indian above is from 1916 and that is the rear dropouts, they are unique to this model. I hope this helps.


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