# Help identifying "Speed" badged bike



## old hotrod (May 20, 2008)

As the title states, I went to look at this bike because I thought the badge was cool but once I spotted the double-curved frame, it reminded me of a Zep but slightly different. Anyway, I picked it up and now I need help from the many experts here...Phil, Antony, Scott, Mike...anybody want to tell me what I have? 
The "before"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/david-quickpic/2509751917/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/david-quickpic/2509752985/
And the current...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/david-quickpic/2510586702/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/david-quickpic/2510588316/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/david-quickpic/2510590678/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/david-quickpic/2509756475/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/david-quickpic/2509758137/


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## RMS37 (May 20, 2008)

David,

Thanks for posting the pictures. You have a very good looking bike with nice even patina.

Your bike was made by Cleveland Welding and would be considered a 1936 model. Bicycle production for 1936 began sometime in 1935 and by 1937 the chain ring design was changed to feature larger secondary paisleys.  In 1937 CWC replaced the crescent fenders with gothic fenders.   

The Torrington Bev-e-lok stem (I believe this was the first stem to use a sliding wedge binder as opposed to a drawn taper plug), shown in the before pictures, was probably original to the bike. Your bike has the ?deluxe? curved truss rods. Lower spec. models used bent, straight rods and some versions used a version of that fork without front struts or truss rods. 

Equipped models would use a Delta Silver Ray head light powered from a battery tube and a Delta Defender tail light. CWC used a proprietary 6-hole rack on equipped models.  Variations of this rack were produced for several years. The appropriate version for your bike would have a reflector housing and reflector at the back and straight fixed (welded, not riveted) legs.

Your chain guard is a later aftermarket fitment. In 1936 CWC used a version of the paisley-pierced hockey stick guard on deluxe models while lesser models had no guard. 

No tank was produced for the frame you have. For 1938 the lower top tube was dropped to make a larger aperture and a tank was produced to fit the second generation frame. 

I have seen several 1936 CWC bikes with the Nonpareil (French for unparalleled) Speed badge. I believe the distributor was a sporting goods company in St. Louis. The badge and variations of it also appear on bicycles made by other manufacturers. 

You mentioned in your earlier post that the serial number is X12578, All the 1936 frames I have seen have Zxxxxx or Axxxxx serial numbers so I?m not sure how the X fits in.

Phil


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## old hotrod (May 21, 2008)

ol'tin bender said:


> Well from the pic I would say it is an old bike!




Thanks for letting me know Mike...and I was hoping to get the tires and seat covered under warranty...figured it was a Wally bike or something 

Phil, you are a wealth of knowledge (and probably already know that) and I truly appreciate the help. 
I will be looking for the correct rack and chainguard, flat brace for the rear fender, better bars and sprocket and get the seat recovered. The lights are probably way out of my league. Otherwise the bike is a rider and I have already put 20 miles on it...


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## Flat Tire (May 21, 2008)

old hotrod said:


> Thanks for letting me know Mike...and I was hoping to get the tires and seat covered under warranty...figured it was a Wally bike or something
> 
> I dont think the warranty covers tires:eek:
> 
> Anyway nice bike....even tho the chainguard is wrong it sure is cool!!


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## Classicriders (May 21, 2008)

I had one of these bikes some years back with a Fleetwood(Firestone) badge, the one with the Archer on it.  Anyways, what really set this bike apart was the front fender had the feature that allowed you to put your initials on it.  A pretty deluxe feature for a tankless bike.  This same feature was offered on the Dayton and Colson built Firestone bicycles of the prewar era.  The fender on my bike was clearly original to the bike and a Cleveland Welding fender, not a Colson or Dayton fender added on later.
I have never found any literature that showed the CW Firestone with the initials, and I believe it was a very limited run.  Below is a link showing the Dayton version of this fender and another showing the 36 Firestone Supreme
http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/188.htm
http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/195.htm


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## 37fleetwood (May 21, 2008)

Hi here is a copy of the  Firestone catalog page showing the a similar bike to the one discussed, and a photo of a Colson Packard I had some years ago. to the untrained eye and especially from memory these bikes look very similar.
Scott


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## old hotrod (May 21, 2008)

I agree, at least the blue Packard does. Looks identical...


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## Classicriders (May 21, 2008)

Oldhotrods bike has different forks than the blue one of Scott's  Look at the truss rods.


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## 37fleetwood (May 21, 2008)

I'm not saying they are the same I was just commenting about just how similar the bikes are in this year and in this style even by different makers.
Scott


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## Classicriders (May 21, 2008)

I know, I was just pointing one of the subtle differences is all.


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## RMS37 (May 21, 2008)

First of all, thanks for the thanks. I?ve gotten more involved posting recently as several questions have come up around the areas I?ve been studying. I enjoying writing and I am happy to share what I know in the hope that we are all building a data base for the hobby. 

We are fortunate to have S.B. posting. He?s one of the people who has been involved in the hobby long enough to spot the oddballs and anomalies and to have a broad knowledge base to use to connect the dots. 

One of my favorite areas is studying the bread and butter prewar models with a slant on learning enough to be able to identify any frame... I should live so long.

Next to Moto-Balloons, double bar roadsters with parallel top tubes are among the hardest to identify by manufacturer.

Cleveland Welding, Colson, Dayton, Schwinn, Manton & Smith, Iver-Johnson, and Emblem all made frames in this configuration. 

Snyder, Westfield, and Shelby also produced frames with parallel top tubes but in each of these cases there are enough visual differences that they are not as likely to be confused. 

Forks, fenders, and paint patterns can be useful tools but these are not always original to the bike

For the first group the differences ultimately lie in the details of frame construction. Tubing shape and bends, tube junctures, seat binders and dropouts are the places to look.

After studying these details for a while these frames do start to look different, even from a distance or in bad photos. Along with the smaller differences, there is a subtle difference in the curve of the top tubes between the CWC, Colson and Dayton versions

Referring back to the posted Firestone ads, I think all the illustrations are depictions of Dayton built bicycles rather than CWC.  The illustration for the 36 Fleetwood Supreme could do justice for both but the curve in the top tube has a short radius and the chain ring, fender stay position, fork crown and dull fender nose all are indicative of Dayton and.

Regarding the CWC/Firestone connection, I was reminded of a photo that I copied off the internet some time ago. It shows a CWC double bar roadster bicycle with a Roadmaster badge and a front fender with the Firestone style indent for initials. It appears to be a gothic CWC fender but the rear fender looks like a CWC crescent fender. I also have a lone front fender in my collection with the stamped indent for initials. The fender is very much like a gothic CWC fender but with some slight differences. Now that my curiosity has been re-awakened I?ll do some more investigation. 

It seems from my observations that there is a larger variety of badges that turn up on earlier CWC frames than there are on later pre-war models. It may be that CWC tried more marketing avenues in the early years as they were becoming established. 

I plan to post some photos of some of the detail differences between these frames.  First I have to dig the appropriate frames out of the pile and then, photograph them.  Hopefully I'll get to this soon before the thread goes cold.

Phil Marshall


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## 37fleetwood (May 21, 2008)

ol'tin bender said:


> Seems I have one hanging in my garage at this very moment! I will see if I can get a pic or two of it.




do you mean this one??? 




Scott


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## 37fleetwood (May 21, 2008)

to RMS37; it is great to have you here with your knowledge! lots of the guys have the bikes you specialize in I can usually help with questions about the Huffman bikes but am kinda limited on the others. I probably should have kept my Colson Packard as it was a neat bike but I have so many projects I would never have gotten to it. I may need your help soon enough i have been trying to get the bike hanging from the ol tin benders rafters since he hung it there! it is a Fleetwood which doesn't look like a Huffman made bike to me but more like a Colson. maybe you could help with that as well! anyway thanks again we need more knowledgeable people like you here. 
Scott


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