# Info needed



## leo healy (May 8, 2021)

Hi Lads

This is something that i was told about recently and found interesting https://www.kerryclimbing.ie/1943-crash-of-usaaf-dakota-on-cnoc-na-peiste/ 
http://www.ww2irishaviation.com/43-30719.htm 

   Great respect to the men that died in this crash.
 Now If you read the article you will see the interest i have" THE BIKES" i've mentioned before that i have never seen or heard of any American military bikes in Ireland ? The info im looking for is what type of bike would have been most likely to have been used < would they have been American or British .
   When I first saw this i was thinking they were probably British and just melted into the lot that were already here,

Like to hear your thoughts on this,

  O and i have the big brother primed to go sniffing around down there he knows that part of the country


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## Mercian (May 8, 2021)

Hi Leo.

I have no idea what these bicycles were. But here's some thoughts about it, and it's certainly interesting.

The phrase "Battle bicycles" used on the webpage is unusual. If you search for "Battle bicycles" and WW2, this page is about the only place you find it.

So, the question is, where does the information used on the page come from? There are no references given. If it uses "Battle bicycles" in the air accident report, that would be interesting, but, if it's a phrase coined by page writer, then that doesn't help us. Is there any way of contacting the original author and finding where he got the information from?

Also, it states that they were to be used by the 101st Airborne to be parachuted behind enemy lines on June 6th 1944. An accident report is unlikely to say which unit bicycles were to be issued to. And the 101st didn't use bicycles in this way.

The 101st did start transferring from the US to the UK in August 1943, so that is the right time frame. This was also the period for maximum rate G519 manufacture, so this fits too, but then late 1943 a lot of preparation for DDay was happening.

The route taken by the plane was "British Guiana and Dakar in West Africa to Port Lyautey in French Morocco. At Port Lyautey, the C 47 refueled and took on a cargo of Battle Bicycles... and medical supplies,..."

The 101st weren't in North Africa, so it wasn't a stores movement for equipment they already had back to the UK. Why would military bicycles be in North Africa? A US shipment of G519 to the wrong place? (damaged convoy ship?) BSA folding bikes from the British, then assumed to be US because it was a US plane? I don't know if BSA's were used in North Africa. The production dates would be OK for that.

Or,none of the above, another scenario entirely.

Bottom line, without knowing the original source, it's guesswork. It would be a random thing to make up, though, so I guess there's a mention of the cargo somewhere.

The air accident report dates from 10th Jan 1944. Here are some extracts, and a lot more information on the crash, and the people involved.






						C-47 Skytrain, 43-30719, The Reeks, Kerry, 1943
					

World War II airplanes



					www.ww2irishaviation.com
				









						ASN Aircraft accident Douglas C-47A-DL (DC-3) 43-30719 Knocknapeasta, Co. Kerry
					

A Douglas C-47A-DL (DC-3) plane, serial 43-30719, was damaged beyond repair in  an accident at Knocknapeasta, Co. Kerry, Ireland. There were  five crew members on board. The airplane operated on a flight from Port Lyautey NAS (NNA) to .



					aviation-safety.net
				












						Tragedy over the Reeks | Irish America
					

The wreckage of a U.S. military transport plane lies scattered in Ireland's tallest mountain, reminding us of those who gave their all in WWII




					irishamerica.com
				




They are interesting reading, and add a different view each time. But none mention bicycles.

I hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Mercian (May 9, 2021)

Hi, Leo.

The full accident report can be ordered here, which may, or may not, answer your question.






						December 1943 USAAF Overseas Accident Reports
					

AAIR, Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research, is a source of U. S. military aircraft accident reports, pictures of aircraft crash sites, MACRs (Missing Air Crew Reports) and individual aircraft history cards and historical research. Historic aircraft crash site surveys, search and...



					www.aviationarchaeology.com
				




Best Regards,

Adrian


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## leo healy (May 15, 2021)

Hi Adrian

  Thank you for your reply and links to some interesting reading and info ,but as you say there is no concrete evidence as to any bikes been mentioned by any one.
   I guess anyone that did take or find anything at the site was not going to broadcast it as it would have been an act of looting and robbery witch carried a heavy sentence at the time.
   When i said about the british bikes above I was thinking more in the line of mk 1V ans V bsa types as the Irish army and Gardai would have been using these at the time.

  We have an expression here that when a story gets passed on it grows legs , Perhaps in conversation someone said : well you  wont be cycling up to the crash site  :  That was heard as : Some a the lads were cycling around up there: 

   Still pay a visit down around there once the weather picks up ,see if anything turns up.


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## all riders (May 15, 2021)

Please let us know, either way.


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## Mercian (May 15, 2021)

Hi Leo,

Yes, it's very difficult to know the truth after this time, especially, as you say, if items were removed from the site before it was officially found, as is implied in one of the reports.

It could be that the bikes were not cargo, but belonged to the crew. They would have had personal gear on the plane, being as they were heading to the UK, and even today on modern military cargo planes, it isn't unusuakl to see one or two bikes on board for crew transport on airfields.

But, we'll probably never know.

Best Regrds,

Adrian


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## johan willaert (May 17, 2021)

For what it's worth...

Many, many years ago I corresponded with George Koskimaki who was an NCO in the 101st Airborne Signal Company and was actually General Taylor's radioman in Normandy, Holland and beyond. Koskimaki had authored several books on the 101st AB Div in WW2 and at that time he had a razor-sharp memory.

At a certain point I talked to him about the use of bicycles by US Paratroops in Normandy as I knew the Table of Organisation & Equipment (T-O&E) for an AB Division in WW2 listed several bicycles. There are some photos that show G519 models in use by the 82nd AB Div during training in the US.
Also back then I was researching if the Westfield Compax collapsible model (later commercialized as the 'Paratrooper') was used by paratroopers during WW2. We now know they didn't...

In a 1995 dated letter, Koskimaki wrote he remembered paratroopers ditching one or more bicycles from the aircraft into the sea during the flight from England to Normandy as they were afraid they would cause trouble during the jump... He could not remember the exact type of bicycle; and he probably wouldn't have cared at the time... He added they might even have been the British BSA Folding Model. He did not say if they were meant to be jumped with or were just there in the plane.

Whether or not the paratroopers took bicycles to Normandy remains a mystery... but in my opinion after many years of research, they didn't...

At least one Normandy used standard Westfield Columbia G519 survived and was donated to the Sainte Mere Eglise AB museum in the 1970s where it is still on display.
Furthermore many other units came through Normandy in the Summer of 1944 and any of them, especially Air Force units could have brought them with them.


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## mr.cycleplane (May 17, 2021)

Very interesting!


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## johan willaert (May 18, 2021)

Just checked again... The late 1942 T-O&E lists  81 bicycles for an Airborne Division...

Below an excerpt from George Koskimaki's letter described above... It was dated October 1996, not 1995!


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