# Fall 2021 Copake auction



## catfish (Oct 2, 2021)

It's getting close! 






						Bicycle and Transportation Auction, 2021-11-13 – COPAKE AUCTION
					






					www.copakeauction.com


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## kreika (Oct 2, 2021)

To anyone interested in the Mercury Pacemaker. I believe it’s already been purchased and returned once. All kinds of wrong going on there.


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## Freqman1 (Oct 2, 2021)

Again a little thin on good ballon tire stuff. That HD is suspect and I hope they mention the glass tank on the Pacemaker! Always a chance a gem or two could be added! V/r Shawn


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## catfish (Oct 2, 2021)

Freqman1 said:


> Again a little thin on good ballon tire stuff. That HD is suspect and I hope they mention the glass tank on the Pacemaker! Always a chance a gem or two could be added! V/r Shawn




This isn't the entire auction catalog, just a preview.


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## bikewhorder (Oct 2, 2021)

Freqman1 said:


> That HD is suspect  V/r Shawn



It looks 100% correct to me.


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## ronlon (Oct 22, 2021)

Has anyone ever had a bike shipped to Michigan from Copake? Shipping costs? What company was used? Thanks!


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## detroitbike (Oct 22, 2021)

get one of these guys here to get it for you.
 I had a bike shipped and it was complete with pedals, seat and handlebars still on. 
 It was sent truck and cost a fortune back then (3-400)


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## J-wagon (Oct 22, 2021)

Interesting bikes and items. 
Bikes are assembled and staged to be picture perfect...


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## Freqman1 (Oct 23, 2021)

ronlon said:


> Has anyone ever had a bike shipped to Michigan from Copake? Shipping costs? What company was used? Thanks!



The first time I ever bought a bike from them they used a LBS and I think the cost was about $150. They did a pretty good job. Everything I've bought since then I've had a CABE member pick up for me and either bring it to MLC, I met them within driving distance, or they brought it to the house. V/r Shawn


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## MEW1359 (Oct 23, 2021)

In June auction I was lucky enough to win a bike. We drove to Copake, NY from Ohio to pick it up - nice road trip but long drive. Hoping to buy some stuff/bikes in November if the prices don't get way too jacked up. I ain't doing that drive again this time so lookin to find some delivery.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Oct 23, 2021)

ronlon said:


> Has anyone ever had a bike shipped to Michigan from Copake? Shipping costs? What company was used? Thanks!



@kirk thomas  is doing the shipping again this auction


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## 100bikes (Oct 23, 2021)

Buyer beware- not of the Copake auction folks, but their friendly UPS Store partners.

My book/paper ephemera purchase should have been an easy pack and ship. 
Not fragile, just dense and heavy.
When it arrived, it was in oversize boxes with enormous amount of protective wrap, 
so much so that after unwrapping everything, the wrap alone filled the two largest 
boxes to overflow.

If it had been something fragile, it would have been overkill packaging. 
This was paper!

As we know, USP rates are based upon weight and volume.

Heavy, non fragile stuff, wrapped in large(excessive for sure) amount of fill= $$$$$

Shipping, along with their nice packing charge (of about $25 per box), cost 150% of the value of the goods.

Moral of this story: find someone who offers a pack and ship service for a reasonable rate and 
does the packing of the product you purchase with appropriate amount of common sense.

rusty


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## kirk thomas (Oct 23, 2021)

I can pick and pack for $60 per bike.


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## ronlon (Oct 23, 2021)

detroitbike said:


> get one of these guys here to get it for you.
> I had a bike shipped and it was complete with pedals, seat and handlebars still on.
> It was sent truck and cost a fortune back then (3-400)



Thanks for the info!


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## locomotion (Oct 29, 2021)

J-wagon said:


> Interesting bikes and items.
> Bikes are assembled and staged to be picture perfect... View attachment 1500345
> 
> View attachment 1500346
> ...




I saw that as well!!! How hard is it to properly position your bikes for a picture?

Pierce "arrow" bike? what is that? auction house been doing this for 25 years and still trying to whirl in the car collectors with this description     https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/pierce-arrow-pneumatic-safety-bicycle-400-c-5A94ACDA00


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## Archie Sturmer (Oct 29, 2021)

locomotion said:


> Also, Pierce "arrow" bike? what is that? auction house been doing this for 25 years and still trying to whirl in the car collectors with this description



There was a recent post of an ad by Pierce Cycle Co. that showed their (Pierce’s) one-year 1907-only economy model, “*Arrow*” (cycle or bicycle); and also described it as _“sufficiently good to bear their (_Pierce’s_) nameplate”._
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/j...er-new-york-racing-model.198965/#post-1349482
So, perhaps some people might simplify phrases by eliminating prepositions, and extra unnecessary words, and so forth, etc..
What they probably meant was _“Arrow bicycle by Pierce Cycle Co.”_(?)_._


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## locomotion (Oct 29, 2021)

Archie Sturmer said:


> There was a recent post of an ad by Pierce Cycle Co. that showed their (Pierce’s) one-year-only economy model, “*Arrow*” (cycle or bicycle).
> So, perhaps some people might simplify phrases by eliminating prepositions, etc..
> What they probably meant was “Arrow by Pierce”.



good point, didn't see that post
Do you have a picture of the "Arrow" by Pierce badge? or a link to the post?
because the bike on the copake auction clearly has a regular Pierce headbadge


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## oldmtrcyc (Nov 4, 2021)

18-23% buyers premium.  And probably charge the seller the same amount.  Coming and going.


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## kirk thomas (Nov 10, 2021)

I am still helping with shipping if needed.


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## 100bikes (Nov 15, 2021)

As a follow up to this iteration of the Copake auction- WOW.
The prices paid for some of the jerseys and lightweight bicycles 
was well above anything I would have expected.

The auction seemed to start slow with lots closing about 1 a minute
(which would have made for a really long day) but seemed to pick
 up about halfway through.

The mix with car parts( for a non car oriented guy) made for some slow sections. 
Perhaps the two could have been done in two sections, rather than intermingled.

Won a couple lots and was notified really fast - later Saturday evening.

Hope the Copake folks will have a spring auction(live, again).

rusty


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## bikewhorder (Nov 15, 2021)

oldmtrcyc said:


> 18-23% buyers premium.  And probably charge the seller the same amount.  Coming and going.



 When I looked into it the seller's fees vary depending on the cost of the item.  They go down with increasing values. It was like 40%  for the price range that my stuff would have fallen in.   I was like "OK, thank you!"


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## Freqman1 (Nov 15, 2021)

So the folks that sold balloon tire bikes just about gave them away. I sure hope we see a better selection come Spring. Of course they can only sell what is consigned but it looks like the glory days are gone!


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## bikewhorder (Nov 15, 2021)

Freqman1 said:


> So the folks that sold balloon tire bikes just about gave them away. I sure hope we see a better selection come Spring. Of course they can only sell what is consigned but it looks like the glory days are gone!



Unless you get some situation where there's an old widow who just wants the stuff to go away and really doesn't care what they get for it I don't know why anyone would go that route for Mid grade level bikes and parts.  If you have something really special it might be fun to throw it on there and see how crazy it gets. I've always been a bit confused by the selling prices at Copake. It's like a whole different economy and culture of buyers than what we have here on the Cabe sometimes.


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## charnleybob (Nov 15, 2021)

Freqman1 said:


> So the folks that sold balloon tire bikes just about gave them away. I sure hope we see a better selection come Spring. Of course they can only sell what is consigned but it looks like the glory days are gone!




Wrong.
New bikes are found all the time, old collectors sell their stuff off, etc.
Back in the 1990's, some were saying all collectible bikes have been found.
That was untrue then, as it is now.
There are quite a few unknown collectors, sitting on a vast pile of good stuff, who will eventually sell, like we all will.
What happens if Chestnut Hollow decides to sell?
Copake is just one avenue for stuff to be sold and they've had some lean years and some great years.


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## catfish (Nov 15, 2021)

charnleybob said:


> Wrong.
> New bikes are found all the time, old collectors sell their stuff off, etc.
> Back in the 1990's, some were saying all collectible bikes have been found.
> That was untrue then, as it is now.
> ...



Well said !!!


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## bikebozo (Nov 15, 2021)

Very true , I know lots of places and people who do not look on the CABE-GO TO COPAKE, OR USE THE INTERNET,! They have lots of bikes and other items. If I found a Bluebird in a tobacco warehouse in Moultrie ga. The stuff is out there , . Good luck


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## Freqman1 (Nov 15, 2021)

charnleybob said:


> Wrong.
> New bikes are found all the time, old collectors sell their stuff off, etc.
> Back in the 1990's, some were saying all collectible bikes have been found.
> That was untrue then, as it is now.
> ...



Ok so we’re in “lean years” right now. Well aware of good stuff selling in other venues-that’s how I get my stuff!


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## bobcycles (Nov 15, 2021)

a collector friend of mine, and a 'seasoned one'...saves up all the bikes he's picked through out the year
and hauls them to Copake.  I always advise him to sell here or even EEEKbay....but for some reason 
he always wants to make the Fallons happy... he needs to start thinking about making _himself_ happy...
he lost his @ss bigtime on this one. Also asked my advice on some of the stuff through out the year and I 
told him how to maximize the $.... guess he didn't listen.  sad


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## SirMike1983 (Nov 16, 2021)

The other thing is that demand could be sinking a bit in the balloon tire market. I wonder if some of the money in the hobby might be shifting over to premium road, muscle, and BMX for generational reasons. There's always going to be a pretty strong market for very good balloon tire bikes, but money being finite, I wonder if we might be seeing a generational shift in demand and where fresh money in the hobby is going. There certainly are younger people into old balloon tire bikes, but the contingent who buys because, "I had a Phantom when I was a kid" is getting old. There will always be a market for the really good balloon tire bikes, but perhaps the new money in the hobby is shifting to other types of bikes and goods.


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## HEMI426 (Nov 16, 2021)

I have lived and witnessed a similar situation in the automotive/hotrod world. There was a time 30 or 40 years ago when an original Model A or T was worth alot more than a Model A or T hotrod but as time went by and the old timers who loved and grew up restoring the original ones got older the next generation who happened to be children of the 50s (hotrodders) started buying OG Model A and Ts to make into hotrods. Now an A or T hotrod is worth way more than an OG A or T and as the years pass the hottroders will get old and the next generation, children of the 80s will be building and customizing the ele.cars, I think that might be happening already. But all of us will love what we love until we go to bicycle or hotrod heaven!!! If we could read the future we could invest in it now, but we would probably not live long enough to reap the benefits (profit). I will always appreciate an OG A or T and a Ballon tire bike.


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## biker (Nov 16, 2021)

I wonder if new money is going into Bitcoin or the stock market? Seems to be going up in a straight line lately. Young people they want to play video games, drink alcohol, drive fast cars and brag how much they are making in the market just by tapping their smart phone. Why would they waste their time on a hobby that takes up space, wastes your time, doesn't provide that much of a monetary return if any, requires you to get dirt under your finger nails, drive hundreds of miles for a bike or a show or a auction or a doing a ride. We are dying out. Its changing before our eyes. As with any hobby will happen.


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## Freqman1 (Nov 16, 2021)

My observations were not with the hobby as a whole just this venue. If you've been to a swap or show lately there is plenty of enthusiasm for all types of bicycles. I've already posted my views which run counter to the generational argument. Lifestyles and hobbies are two different things and many people will never be collectors of anything but that's ok--more for me! V/r Shawn


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## Dave Stromberger (Nov 16, 2021)

I think watching what's happening right here on theCABE is a better indicator on the pulse of the hobby than what happens at Copake.  But, I'm biased.


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## SirMike1983 (Nov 16, 2021)

Freqman1 said:


> Lifestyles and hobbies are two different things and many people will never be collectors of anything but that's ok--more for me! V/r Shawn




That's how I feel about it. I have no problem with old 3-speeds being a lesser collectible because it means I can afford them and (most of) the parts.


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## FreedomMachinist (Nov 16, 2021)

ronlon said:


> Has anyone ever had a bike shipped to Michigan from Copake? Shipping costs? What company was used? Thanks!



I had a bike shipped from Copake to Jackson, MI at their summer 2021 auction.
Kirkland Thomas handled it for 60$ and shipping fee was 81,65$ - I'd say thats a reasonable price for a professional shipping service and everything went smooth so far.
Although, as of yet I cannot tell if the disassembling and packaging was done well since I have not seen the bike - I still  need to arrange the final shipment to Germany. 
I was waiting to score a last bike at Copake last Saturday - I had an eye on the full suspension Pierce (awesome!) and was prepared to spend 2,5G and even dragged along until 3500$  - it sold for 3750
cry 
Oh if i could turn, turn back the hands of time 
Although the next bid increment would have been 4G - and that is a lot of money for a bicycle...and who knows who else was bidding... Jay Leno, Bill Gates, JD Rockefeller ? 
And the later certainly had a good taste on classic bikes, he rode a German built Dürkopp Chainless


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## J-wagon (Nov 16, 2021)

Freqman1 said:


> Lifestyles and hobbies are two different things



I have small collection. Nothing worth more than one comma. Biggest dilemmas I face every morning:
What bike I ride today? 
What bike I fix today?


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## bikebozo (Nov 16, 2021)

FreedomMachinist said:


> I had a bike shipped from Copake to Jackson, MI at their summer 2021 auction.
> Kirkland Thomas handled it for 60$ and shipping fee was 81,65$ - I'd say thats a reasonable price for a professional shipping service and everything went smooth so far.
> Although, as of yet I cannot tell if the disassembling and packaging was done well since I have not seen the bike - I still  need to arrange the final shipment to Germany.
> I was waiting to score a last bike at Copake last Saturday - I had an eye on the full suspension Pierce (awesome!) and was prepared to spend 2,5G and even dragged along until 3500$  - it sold for 3750
> ...



Columbia built chainless,


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## FreedomMachinist (Nov 17, 2021)

You know what, after I pasted in the photo yesterday and since in recent time I got a bit more educated in US-bicycles, I had the same thought: looks like a Columbia badge.

So: I appologize for pusblishing Fake News on The Cabe- of course he was riding a Pope product !
I was only repeating a sidenote a read on several occasions in different German publications about chainless bikes and other bicycle matters.
I was always a bit suspecious about the missing plunger breaks (all German bikes had to have two independent brakes, by law, up to this day), but took it for granted that its Dürkopp, since everybody says so 

I forgot to reference the website i took the photo yesterday, but it also spreads the myth in the comment section:




__





						John D. Rockefeller rode a bicycle – Cyclelicious
					





					www.cyclelicio.us
				










And a book about Bielefeld's Histroy also repeats the story.




At least I think I can explaint where the myth is coming from:
The Dürkopp Badge of the time is similar to Columbias, but more oval shaped and tilted writing.
For reference here is my Dürkopp 1913:










not really a close match, but similar.


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## FreedomMachinist (Nov 17, 2021)

For got to say: The badge is complete oval.
and the brass sheet over the badge is a "owners badge", having the name and city of the original owner engraved on it:
"Florence Reibelt, Dabors" 
Doesn't really sound German, and these badges indeed were a french custom.  

The bike was ridden in Elsaß-Lothringen  (Alsace-Lorraine), a piece of land which switched between German and French possesion many times, whoever won the last war. It was born right before WWI (many parts have the year stamped on them 1913/14)  and after 1918 this area was French again, therefore the French badge. 

Sorry if a spammed the Copake-Thread, but just wanted to mention it ...


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## FreedomMachinist (Nov 17, 2021)

Three types of Badges in 1913 catalog.


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## FreedomMachinist (Nov 17, 2021)

Chainless Touring 1913


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