# Noticed in photo of 1938 motorbike!



## mr.cycleplane (Dec 10, 2019)

I am posting this as it may be of some interest to my fellow Schwinn collectors. I am the second owner of this 1938 Schwinn motorbike. When I got the bike it came with an original picture(approx 8.5x11) of the owner proudly sitting on the bike. The bike was sold through one of the Chicago Cycle Supply stores in Chicago where the owner lived. It bears a 'Lincoln' head badge and the downtube has the Lincoln decal.  In the photo you can see he is wearing a wool jacket and matched wool knickers to keep him warm. This could be a clue as to when the bike was purchased. Christmas time? I have had the bike and picture for some time and everyone that sees them is fascinated that an original bike and photo have stayed together so long. I've looked at the photo hundreds of times as I have it blown up to small poster size and mounted on the wall behind the bike. Just this morning though I noticed something odd in the photo. Behind the owners left leg in the photo there seems to be a rectangular area-like a piece of paper. Can you guess what it is...…its the Schwinn Guarantee hang tag! I went and pulled one out and compared by size and its relation to how it is hanging-its a match. It is probably a solid guess this picture was taken the day he got the bike-which explains the smile on his face! 








For display I now have tried to re-create that moment hanging the tag as in the picture-tied to the top portion of the seat tube. Just goes to show you the more you study a picture-the more you see!


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## cyclingday (Dec 10, 2019)

Nice discovery, Tyler.
And a well loved bike.


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## vincev (Dec 10, 2019)

Great story !


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## Frank and Pam Skid Kings (Dec 10, 2019)

The fun of preserving history. Love it.


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## Jon Olson (Mar 19, 2020)

mr.cycleplane said:


> I am posting this as it may be of some interest to my fellow Schwinn collectors. I am the second owner of this 1938 Schwinn motorbike. When I got the bike it came with an original picture(approx 8.5x11) of the owner proudly sitting on the bike. The bike was sold through one of the Chicago Cycle Supply stores in Chicago where the owner lived. It bears a 'Lincoln' head badge and the downtube has the Lincoln decal.  In the photo you can see he is wearing a wool jacket and matched wool knickers to keep him warm. This could be a clue as to when the bike was purchased. Christmas time? I have had the bike and picture for some time and everyone that sees them is fascinated that an original bike and photo have stayed together so long. I've looked at the photo hundreds of times as I have it blown up to small poster size and mounted on the wall behind the bike. Just this morning though I noticed something odd in the photo. Behind the owners left leg in the photo there seems to be a rectangular area-like a piece of paper. Can you guess what it is...…its the Schwinn Guarantee hang tag! I went and pulled one out and compared by size and its relation to how it is hanging-its a match. It is probably a solid guess this picture was taken the day he got the bike-which explains the smile on his face! View attachment 1108329
> 
> View attachment 1108330
> 
> For display I now have tried to re-create that moment hanging the tag as in the picture-tied to the top portion of the seat tube. Just goes to show you the more you study a picture-the more you see!



After looking at your pictures it looks like I can say my tank is a 1938!


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 19, 2020)

Jon......like I told you months ago that tank is 1939.....now bring it over and give it to me


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## Autocycleplane (Mar 19, 2020)

Man, everyone wishes they had original period photos of their collectable bikes like that. That's really special, similar to having the original receipt like this one (not mine













December of 1938. Note the front tank strap location that the folklorists will claim was only in 1939 despite the change being noted on an engineering drawing as early as late 37.


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 19, 2020)

THERE YOU GO DEC 17TH 1938 WITH THE STRAP BACK.... TRANSITIONING OVER WITH THAT NEW TANK  DESIGN.....HAPPENED EVERY YEAR FOR THE MOST PART....BUT THERE IS A CERTAIN RULE OF THUMB HOW 95% OF THE  MODELS CAME FROM YEAR TO YEAR AND THAT IS WHAT I HAVE ALWAYS ABIDED BY!!!!!


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 19, 2020)

SO ONCE AGAIN TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR THAT TANK WITH THE STRAP BACK IS MOST COMMONLY FOUND ON 1939 MODELS!!!!


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 19, 2020)

HERE IS AN EXAMPLE...SAY YOU ARE RESTORING A 1939 MOTORBIKE MISSING THE TANK.....WHAT WOULD BE THE TANK YOU WOULD PREFER TO FIND?......THE TANK WITH THE STRAP BACK BECAUSE THAT IS HOW MOST OF THEM COMMONLY CAME!!!!!


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## JLF (Mar 19, 2020)

Great photo and story!


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 19, 2020)

AND NOW AFTER LOOKING AT TYLERS ORIGINAL PICTURE CLOSER....BESIDES THE STRAP BACK TANK …..I SEE MORE TELL TALE SIGNS THAT THE BIKE  WAS BUILT AS A 1939....AND WHAT IS THE OTHER TELL TALE SIGN??????THE NEW PAINT SCHEME ON THE FRONT FENDER FOR 1939 MODELS...….TYLER FLIP THE BIKE OVER AND TAKE ME A PICTURE OF THE SERIAL NUMBER FOR ME!!!!!


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## GTs58 (Mar 19, 2020)

Autocycleplane said:


> Man, everyone wishes they had original period photos of their collectable bikes like that. That's really special, similar to having the original receipt like this one (not mine
> 
> View attachment 1158501
> 
> ...




And here is what the original owners residence looks like today.


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## Autocycleplane (Mar 20, 2020)

Actual evidence indicates the fender graphics were changed by summer of 1938 which is when these bikes were given away to these lucky kids and documented in the Tacoma newspaper.


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 20, 2020)

I SEE A PICTURE OF TWO 1939S.....ONCE AGAIN GOING BY ORIGINAL SCHWINN CATALOGUES....THE GRAPHIC CHANGE TO THE FRONT FENDER  SHOWS UP IN 1939 ALONG WITH THE TANK WITH THE STRAP BACK.....SO AGAIN THERE IS A CERTAIN RULE OF THUMB I GO BY!!!!!


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 20, 2020)

BUT HEY I LIKE THE PICTURE!!!!!!!!


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## Autocycleplane (Mar 20, 2020)

Presenting to the Lucky Winners
					

Kathleen McElwain and Donald Langbridge stand beside two new Schwinn "World" bicycles, loaded with all the newest accessories, in Wright…




					www.tacomalibrary.org
				




So let's get this straight: Either this citation of the photo has the year all wrong, or the 1939 models were already available in July of 1938?

Or is it possible that once again you are mistaken? That you have been presented with clear examples here that contradict your rule of thumb?

FYI - the bike shown as an equipped Motorbike in the 38 and 39 catalog pages uses the exact same artwork, including the early fender graphics and forward tank strap location. There is some ad copy in 1939 however that does show most of the actual changes eventually implemented on the 1939 model - sliding rail saddle, tank strap relocated, Webb brake lever, etc.

If one can let go of the faulty assumptions that all changes happened only with model year changes, and that those model year changes were directly/closely tied to the calendar year, then things start to make a lot more sense. Otherwise you end up jumping through hoops to try and make your world-view fit an ever-growing amount of examples and evidence that is easily shared via the interwebs. I felt like I got to that place with the prewar serials from late 36 to early 39 (the small tight machine stamped ones) - just too much variability across the model years for them to be anywhere close to sequential (my opinion) and therefore almost meaningless without additional parts/context to date the bike (opinion). But that's a another topic that would be fun to hash out in it's own thread sometime.


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 20, 2020)

YES I COMPLETLY AGREE ….THERE IS CARRY OVER FROM YEAR TO YEAR....BUT THERE IS A CERTAIN WAY MOST MODELS CAME ONCE THEY GOT MORE INTO THAT CERTAIN YEAR!!!!!


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 20, 2020)

AND THAT IS THE RULE OF THUMB I HAVE ALWAYS USED TO TRY TO KEEP YEAR TO YEAR IN UNISON WITH OTHER COLLECTORS.


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 20, 2020)

AN EXAMPLE ….THAT 1941 BLACK CANTILEVER AUTO-CYCLE YOU HAVE WITH A 1940 TANK....YOU AND I KNOW MOST 1941S DID NOT COMMONLY COME WITH THAT TANK....PARTS CARRYING OVER FROM YEAR TO YEAR....BUT LIKE I SAID ONCE YOU GET MORE INTO PRODUCTION OF A CERTAIN MODEL YEAR THAT SEEMS TO DISSIPATE.


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 20, 2020)

ANOTHER EXAMPLE....SHAWN RESTORING THAT I941 CANTILEVER AUTO-CYCLE AND LETS SAY AGAIN IT IS MISSING THE TANK....WHAT TANK IS HE GOING TO LOOK FOR????….THE 1941 NEW DESIGN EMBOSSED TANK....BECAUSE THAT IS THE TANK THAT WAS MOST COMMONLY USED THAT YEAR....NOT A 1940 BUTTON TANK THAT WAS MOST COMMONLY USED ON 1940 MODELS.


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## Jon Olson (Mar 25, 2020)

kenny_hungus said:


> ANOTHER EXAMPLE....SHAWN RESTORING THAT I941 CANTILEVER AUTO-CYCLE AND LETS SAY AGAIN IT IS MISSING THE TANK....WHAT TANK IS HE GOING TO LOOK FOR????….THE 1941 NEW DESIGN EMBOSSED TANK....BECAUSE THAT IS THE TANK THAT WAS MOST COMMONLY USED THAT YEAR....NOT A 1940 BUTTON TANK THAT WAS MOST COMMONLY USED ON 1940 MODELS.



I just received this magazine that shows a bicycle with a tank like the one a bought in Modesto. Could it be the tank in the picture? And is this bicycle a 1938 or 1939?


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 25, 2020)

MODESTO!!!!!....TOWN WITH SERIOUS NOSTALGIA.....BAD TO THE BONE 1939!!!!!


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 25, 2020)

JON..... READY TO BUY OR TRADE EPIC PARTS AND CASH


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## Autocycleplane (Mar 27, 2020)

Jon Olson said:


> I just received this magazine that shows a bicycle with a tank like the one a bought in Modesto. Could it be the tank in the picture? And is this bicycle a 1938 or 1939?View attachment 1161531
> View attachment 1161528
> 
> View attachment 1161530
> ...




Awesome photo, taken in 1938 by the Baird Photo Service. I am in contact with someone at the McHenry Museum there in Modesto to find out about the other photo(!) taken at the same time and possibly a newspaper article about the giveaway. Obviously not gonna happen until things get back to the new version of normal.


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 28, 2020)

o


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## fordmike65 (Mar 28, 2020)

kenny_hungus said:


> THERE YOU GO DEC 17TH 1938 WITH THE STRAP BACK.... TRANSITIONING OVER WITH THAT NEW TANK  DESIGN.....HAPPENED EVERY YEAR FOR THE MOST PART....BUT THERE IS A CERTAIN RULE OF THUMB HOW 95% OF THE  MODELS CAME FROM YEAR TO YEAR AND THAT IS WHAT I HAVE ALWAYS ABIDED BY!!!!!





kenny_hungus said:


> SO ONCE AGAIN TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR THAT TANK WITH THE STRAP BACK IS MOST COMMONLY FOUND ON 1939 MODELS!!!!





kenny_hungus said:


> HERE IS AN EXAMPLE...SAY YOU ARE RESTORING A 1939 MOTORBIKE MISSING THE TANK.....WHAT WOULD BE THE TANK YOU WOULD PREFER TO FIND?......THE TANK WITH THE STRAP BACK BECAUSE THAT IS HOW MOST OF THEM COMMONLY CAME!!!!!





kenny_hungus said:


> AND NOW AFTER LOOKING AT TYLERS ORIGINAL PICTURE CLOSER....BESIDES THE STRAP BACK TANK …..I SEE MORE TELL TALE SIGNS THAT THE BIKE  WAS BUILT AS A 1939....AND WHAT IS THE OTHER TELL TALE SIGN??????THE NEW PAINT SCHEME ON THE FRONT FENDER FOR 1939 MODELS...….TYLER FLIP THE BIKE OVER AND TAKE ME A PICTURE OF THE SERIAL NUMBER FOR ME!!!!!





kenny_hungus said:


> I SEE A PICTURE OF TWO 1939S.....ONCE AGAIN GOING BY ORIGINAL SCHWINN CATALOGUES....THE GRAPHIC CHANGE TO THE FRONT FENDER  SHOWS UP IN 1939 ALONG WITH THE TANK WITH THE STRAP BACK.....SO AGAIN THERE IS A CERTAIN RULE OF THUMB I GO BY!!!!!





kenny_hungus said:


> BUT HEY I LIKE THE PICTURE!!!!!!!!





kenny_hungus said:


> YES I COMPLETLY AGREE ….THERE IS CARRY OVER FROM YEAR TO YEAR....BUT THERE IS A CERTAIN WAY MOST MODELS CAME ONCE THEY GOT MORE INTO THAT CERTAIN YEAR!!!!!





kenny_hungus said:


> AND THAT IS THE RULE OF THUMB I HAVE ALWAYS USED TO TRY TO KEEP YEAR TO YEAR IN UNISON WITH OTHER COLLECTORS.





kenny_hungus said:


> AN EXAMPLE ….THAT 1941 BLACK CANTILEVER AUTO-CYCLE YOU HAVE WITH A 1940 TANK....YOU AND I KNOW MOST 1941S DID NOT COMMONLY COME WITH THAT TANK....PARTS CARRYING OVER FROM YEAR TO YEAR....BUT LIKE I SAID ONCE YOU GET MORE INTO PRODUCTION OF A CERTAIN MODEL YEAR THAT SEEMS TO DISSIPATE.





kenny_hungus said:


> ANOTHER EXAMPLE....SHAWN RESTORING THAT I941 CANTILEVER AUTO-CYCLE AND LETS SAY AGAIN IT IS MISSING THE TANK....WHAT TANK IS HE GOING TO LOOK FOR????….THE 1941 NEW DESIGN EMBOSSED TANK....BECAUSE THAT IS THE TANK THAT WAS MOST COMMONLY USED THAT YEAR....NOT A 1940 BUTTON TANK THAT WAS MOST COMMONLY USED ON 1940 MODELS.





kenny_hungus said:


> MODESTO!!!!!....TOWN WITH SERIOUS NOSTALGIA.....BAD TO THE BONE 1939!!!!!





kenny_hungus said:


> JON..... READY TO BUY OR TRADE EPIC PARTS AND CASH





kenny_hungus said:


> POOR LITTLE ERIC HE TRIES SO HARD



Hey @kenny_hungus . It looks like your CAPS LOCK has been stuck on for over a week. Might wanna check into that. Mike


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 28, 2020)

o


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 28, 2020)

o


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## fordmike65 (Mar 28, 2020)

kenny_hungus said:


> HEY MIKE .....DO THE INITIALS F.O. MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU??



No. No they don't. Please enlighten me.


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 28, 2020)

o


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## fordmike65 (Mar 28, 2020)

kenny_hungus said:


> FIGURE IT OUT....IT IS NOT THAT HARD



Maybe this will help _you _figure it out


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## kenny_hungus (Mar 28, 2020)

o


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## mr.cycleplane (Mar 29, 2020)

oh-that's what that button does...hummmm-i never use it!





fordmike65 said:


> Maybe this will help _you _figure it out
> View attachment 1163426


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## cyclingday (Mar 29, 2020)

I think, Cabin Fever is kicking in.


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## mr.cycleplane (Mar 30, 2020)

cyclingday said:


> I think, Cabin Fever is kicking in.





oh-for sure...its here!


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## OC_Rolling_Art (Apr 28, 2020)

I had to get through three pages of shouting to say that is a super cool story Tyler.


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## cyclingday (May 13, 2020)

Update on the subject;
I just dismantled the Placerville Motorbike.


As found condition, that didn’t appear to have been collectorized.
1937 dated crank.
1938 paint scheme with an R prefix, small font, tightly spaced serial number.
Set back front tank strap.
So, it looks like the set back tank strap was being used, well into the 1938 model year, which would indicate that 1938 models could’ve had either strap location, and that 1939 would’ve most likely had the set back strap location.


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## kenny_hungus (May 13, 2020)

I  FIGURED YOU MIGHT BUY THIS.....YOU SNEAKY DEVIL


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## kenny_hungus (May 13, 2020)

I WAS THE HIGH BIDDER AT 3650.00 THEN THE SHILL BIDDER CAME IN AND THEN YOU JUMPED IN AT THE END.....THE WAY YOU LIKE TO FIND THEM UNTOUCHED!!!!!!


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## kenny_hungus (May 13, 2020)

AND WORTH EVERY PENNY


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## birdzgarage (May 14, 2020)

Some people get pretty brave behind a keyboard.love to see you tell mike that in person.you should come ride with us


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## kenny_hungus (May 14, 2020)

birdzgarage said:


> Some people get pretty brave behind a keyboard.love to see you tell mike that in person.you should come ride with us
> [/QUOTE.....HAVE MIKE CALL ME 209 850 0173...I WOULD LOVE TO COME DOWN TO L.A. AND RIDE WITH HIM AND YOU!!!!!!


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## kenny_hungus (May 14, 2020)

THIS IS WHY I HAVE STOPPED SELLING ON THIS WEBSITE....AND I AM DONE POSTING ANY COMMENTS OF ANY KIND ON THE CABE BECAUSE OF THE NONSENSE THAT GOES ON HERE.....ALL THE GOOD PEOPLE ON THIS SITE COME SEE ME ON EBAY.....ALL THE JOKERS DO NOT BOTHER!!!!!!


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## birdzgarage (May 14, 2020)

Bye felica!!!


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## mickeyc (May 14, 2020)

Geez, this is a bike forum, not a playground.....


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## birdzgarage (May 14, 2020)

Anyone that feels the need to talk to a well respected long standing member and friend like that isn't welcome here.im sure everyone agrees.reminds me of that guy @cripple that is gone now.know it all that mouthed off to everyone for no reason.


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## cyclingday (May 14, 2020)

I have personally met all you guys in this discussion, and would choose to hang out with you any where, any time.
You guys all remind me of the guys I grew up with, and have a lot more in common than not.
Take the keyboard talk with a grain  of salt, and try to see the humor in it.


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## Autocycleplane (Sep 4, 2021)

Autocycleplane said:


> Awesome photo, taken in 1938 by the Baird Photo Service. I am in contact with someone at the McHenry Museum there in Modesto to find out about the other photo(!) taken at the same time and possibly a newspaper article about the giveaway. Obviously not gonna happen until things get back to the new version of normal.




The awesome folks over there in Modesto sent me this additional photo and info about the giveaway bikes. Yes bikes - there were 10 given away, one every weekend for 10 weeks that summer. The odds seem very high that the bike from Placerville that @cyclingday fixed up is one of these 10.


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## Maskadeo (Sep 4, 2021)

I need that brake cable strap on the handlebars! 😃


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## Jon Olson (Sep 4, 2021)

What are the odds the tank I bought  in Modesto came from one of those “give away” bicycle?







For now it hangs on this “Put together”!


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## Autocycleplane (Sep 4, 2021)

Maskadeo said:


> I need that brake cable strap on the handlebars! 😃



Ha, I thought about you the second I looked at the photo.


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## Autocycleplane (Sep 4, 2021)

Autocycleplane said:


> View attachment 1158597
> 
> Actual evidence indicates the fender graphics were changed by summer of 1938 which is when these bikes were given away to these lucky kids and documented in the Tacoma newspaper.



@Maskadeo A couple more handlebar clips for ya


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## Dave Stromberger (Sep 4, 2021)

Autocycleplane said:


> @Maskadeo A couple more handlebar clips for ya



What do these clips look like close-up? Don't recall that I've ever seen one.... but then I'm not a "Schwinn guy" so...


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## Maskadeo (Sep 4, 2021)




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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Sep 13, 2021)

Maskadeo said:


> I need that brake cable strap on the handlebars! 😃



When you find some let me know, the only one I ever had went on the white bike.


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## sarmisluters (Sep 13, 2021)

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> When you find some let me know, the only one I ever had went on the white bike.



Make your own !


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## BFGforme (Sep 14, 2021)

Maskadeo said:


> View attachment 1472327
> 
> View attachment 1472328



Pretty sure I have a few of those...


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