# Newbie to forum - is this bike worth keeping?



## Nols (May 24, 2012)

I found this bike frame and wooden front wheel many years ago in my great grand parent's attic. I know it's very old, but wonder if there is any collector interest in this condition - not complete. Any help would be appreciated!   The badge says Orient Leader in porcelain I think. Thanks, Nols


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## dave the wave (May 24, 2012)

its a great bike from turn of the century.you should keep it.but if you want sell it.


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## dave the wave (May 24, 2012)

if you sell it don't take less than $300.


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## jpromo (May 24, 2012)

Wow, that's a beautiful headbadge. Very cool indeed. Definitely a great find; good luck with whatever you do with it!


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## Nols (May 24, 2012)

dave the wave said:


> its a great bike from turn of the century.you should keep it.but if you want sell it.




Thanks Dave. I would like to sell it I think. I guess the title wasn't well thought out! I think the bike is cool as well, and from what I can tell it's only completely missing the rear wheel and chain. I couldn't find anything on this model online and I don't know if it is something people would restore or use for parts or just hang on the wall as it is. If I did keep it, it would just hang on the wall! 
Thanks for the reply
Nols


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## robertc (May 24, 2012)

Check out the original paint condition. Man would that frame clean up great. This would make an awesome project bike.


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## snirt54 (May 24, 2012)

This bicycle is included in the list of American Brands before 1918 on the Wheelmen.org website. It was made by Waltham Mfg. Co Boston,MA.


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## kccomet (May 24, 2012)

im interested in the bike pm sent


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## Nols (May 24, 2012)

snirt54 said:


> This bicycle is included in the list of American Brands before 1918 on the Wheelmen.org website. It was made by Waltham Mfg. Co Boston,MA.




I saw that Orient was a manufacturer, but I haven't seen this model anywhere except an old advertisement from 1900 or so. Also, I cannot locate another picture of the head badge. It is amazing how good the machining is on this bike. It feels as if it was just repacked with new bearings, but I know that isn't the case!


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## scrubbinrims (May 24, 2012)

Bike is definitely worth keeping especially since it is from a relative...I have pilaged a lot of families for their bicycles, but I do not have one that anyone in my family rode.
That would be special.
Chris


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## bikewhorder (May 25, 2012)

Are there any grips for the handlebars with the bike?  Where are you located?


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## bricycle (May 25, 2012)

Bikes with badges that had scroll-work like that were generaly offered prior to 1900. I would guess 1895-1898.
Great bike, I would make an offer, but I already have enough now. If you wish to sell the front wheel separately, I may be interested... since whomever ends up with it would want a matched set for it.


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## Nols (May 25, 2012)

I appreciate everyone's interest and the comments. Thanks! I will take a number of additional pictures on Sunday and post them. It doesn't have grips - pretty much what you see. I'm located in New Jersey not far from Montclair. I agree with comment about it having been a relative's bike, but I don't know exactly who rode it. This was in the attic of their house in Jersey City that a relative inherited after the last of that generation passed away. Unfortunately no one in my branch of the family heard about the cleanout until he had been at it for a month. Too bad!! It was still chock full of cool stuff that we actually bought from him like a private garage sale. He spoke about the enormous piles of boxes of 'junk' that he and a local kid had put out in the trash already. OUCH - magazines, postcards, you name it. Probably the back wheel and chain for this bike as well. Oh well.

Being a collector of many things, stories like that kill me, but it was even worse since it was a relative. Unfortunately it happens all the time.

In any case, I will no doubt put this on ebay, but I will post additional photos here and let people know.

Sorry for the long post.
John


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## bricycle (May 25, 2012)

Nols said:


> I appreciate everyone's interest and the comments. Thanks! I will take a number of additional pictures on Sunday and post them. It doesn't have grips - pretty much what you see. I'm located in New Jersey not far from Montclair. I agree with comment about it having been a relative's bike, but I don't know exactly who rode it. This was in the attic of their house in Jersey City that a relative inherited after the last of that generation passed away. Unfortunately no one in my branch of the family heard about the cleanout until he had been at it for a month. Too bad!! It was still chock full of cool stuff that we actually bought from him like a private garage sale. He spoke about the enormous piles of boxes of 'junk' that he and a local kid had put out in the trash already. OUCH - magazines, postcards, you name it. Probably the back wheel and chain for this bike as well. Oh well.
> 
> Being a collector of many things, stories like that kill me, but it was even worse since it was a relative. Unfortunately it happens all the time.
> 
> ...




Like I mentioned before, I won't be buying it, but I think it would be nice to offer it to the CABE folks first before the general public on E-Bay....just a thought.


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## Nols (May 25, 2012)

bricycle said:


> Like I mentioned before, I won't be buying it, but I think it would be nice to offer it to the CABE folks first before the general public on E-Bay....just a thought.




That would be nice, but I have no idea what it is worth really. I don't mind selling something to serious collectors at a discount but first I like to have an idea of value. Coins, for instance, are subjective but I have a good idea of value. Therefore on a forum like cointalk (with the exact same layout, btw - and a similarly nice community) I can sell a coin and everybody doesn't have to deal with or pay for ebay. Believe me, I don't relish the thought of ebaying it. I hope you guys understand
John


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## bikeboy1340 (May 25, 2012)

*Bids*

As Dave the Wave put it, no less than $300.  Post it on the CABE, in the BST and take offers (no less than $300).  There is an enormous amount of  knowledgeable people on this website that know the true value of this bicycle.  Possibly people that are interested in purchasing it, but not willing to go Ebay because of bad deals with Ebay in the past.  If the best offer does not suit what you want out of it, then post it on Ebay and see where it goes. Just a personal opinion, not trying to tell you what to do with your bicycle.


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## Nols (May 25, 2012)

bikeboy1340 said:


> As Dave the Wave put it, no less than $300.  Post it on the CABE, in the BST and take offers (no less than $300).  There is an enormous amount of  knowledgeable people on this website that know the true value of this bicycle.  Possibly people that are interested in purchasing it, but not willing to go Ebay because of bad deals with Ebay in the past.  If the best offer does not suit what you want out of it, then post it on Ebay and see where it goes. Just a personal opinion, not trying to tell you what to do with your bicycle.




I like that, and will seriously consider it. As I said before, I will not be around until Sunday late and will try to post additional pix then. I like that idea and I am leaning toward it seriously. I am a collector myself of many things, and I don't need to squeeze every nickel out of everything I sell.
Well said, Bikeboy, my hat is off to you!
John


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## bricycle (May 25, 2012)

Since I will not be buying I will give you a good idea of value, but I need to see photos of all of what's left. I have (had) over 9 toc bikes, and many more pre-1930, and have bought off e-bay and here, so I think I have some idea of values...


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## dfa242 (May 26, 2012)

I agree with previous posters about the age range from the late 1890s.  I live a few miles from where your bike was made in Waltham, Mass and like others on this forum, might be interested in buying it.  I think the suggestion of displaying it here before going the ebay route, which is in fact how most of us sell our own bikes, is a good one (okay, an opinion that is perhaps just a tad self serving)

Either way, it was a nice find - good luck with it.


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## corbettclassics (May 26, 2012)

*Orient bicycle*

I'm interested.  You can send pictures to me at:  corbettclassics@charter.net
I wouldn't separate any parts from the bike.  It needs to stay ALL together.
Thank you and looking forward to the pics ~


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## pelletman (May 26, 2012)

I am interested and agree with the non parting sentiment.  It is a travesty to do that to living history...


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## Nols (May 26, 2012)

pelletman said:


> I am interested and agree with the non parting sentiment.  It is a travesty to do that to living history...




I would never part it out, 'clean' it, or otherwise mess it up. I will post additional pics when I'm home tomorrow. I've had this in safe storage for years - most people would have thrown it out 50 times haha. So don't worry - I knew this was special enough to save and bikes are not my thing - mainly because I don't have enough space which is probably a good thing


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## Nols (May 27, 2012)

Here are some additional pics of the Orient Leader. It does have one grip but its a bit ratty. The wheel has some separation in the lamination near the air stem hole. The pedals spin freely and the handlebars move like new. The frame appears to be nice and straight. If anyone is interested in additional pics let me know.
John


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## pelletman (May 27, 2012)

OK, I just sent you a message, are you checking them?  So we are missing a grip, chain and rear wheel?


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## ericbaker (May 28, 2012)

The curator of the Carles River Museum in Waaltham,MA is THE expert to talk to as far as information on Orient goes. Shoot him an email with these pics. He will be happy to view them and give you additional info.


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## Nols (May 28, 2012)

ericbaker said:


> The curator of the Carles River Museum in Waaltham,MA is THE expert to talk to as far as information on Orient goes. Shoot him an email with these pics. He will be happy to view them and give you additional info.




Thanks Eric. I did as you suggested. Everyone here has been very helpful. I will reply to all the PMs shortly.


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## walter branche (May 29, 2012)

*orient*

what happened with the orient safety?? I am interested ,if its still available ,,walter branche  v407 656 9840  wbranche@cfl.rr.com -what is the price???


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## corbettclassics (May 30, 2012)

*Orient bicycle*

I'm curious too.  Is he giving the people who inquired first chance at it and go down the line.
I know I'm second, Dave 3rd and your 4th.  I know that's the respectful way to do it and that's
how I do it.  Fair is fair.......if one doesn't want it, go to two and so on.  Oh well.....still waiting
on this end.


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## Nols (May 30, 2012)

Hey everyone,

I want everyone on thecabe to know what I am currently thinking. As far as I can tell, there are no examples of this bike, at least on the internet. I sent a message to the director of the Charles River Museum,  linking to this thread,  and received a quick reply (not boilerplate) and was told it was forwarded to their librarian who is very knowledgeable on the subject. I was told it might be a while before I receive a reply. I mentioned I might consider donating it.

I do not know exactly how I will do this yet.

I do know I will either donate or sell it.

If I auction it, it will start at $1 with no reserve. I WILL NOT pull the auction or not honor the sale even if it sells for $5.

I was surprised to learn this bycycle is so scarce, so I have had to think about it. Also, as I'm sure you all understand, isn't everyday someone finds something this interesting, so I am trying to be careful and trying to do the best for the bicycle and for me.

Having said that, I will, if I go the ebay route, offer 5% off the sale price to anyone who has already expressed interest here on the CABE in addition to any free shipping I may offer in the auction.

I will not use or 'tease' the members here. This bicycle will be made available one way or another in the near future, and members of the CABE will be notified at least 24 hours prior to the start of an auction in this thread. Should I decide to donate it, I will let you know and to whom, so you can verify it if you wish.

If any of you want, you can look up nolscat on ebay and see I've been a member for over 12 years with perfect feedback. I know there aren't a whole lot of auctions, but there should be enough for serious buyers to realize I am and intend to remain 'on the level'.

Again, thank you all for your interest! I am quite sure that this will find a wonderful new home in the near future.

John


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## bricycle (May 30, 2012)

John, thanks for getting the pics.
Other than it's decent paint on the frame, the remainder is very rough. Seat pan is bent, wood wheel is warped at the stem hole, missing " block style" chain($100-$150 part if you can even find one that long), remaining grip shot, of course missing "fixie" rear wheel. So esentially, if complete in this condition, in my opinion, it had a value of $650 to $950. In it's current state, $300 would be on the high side. Just trying to be honest. Good luck/best wishes with what ever you decide, bri.


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## Nols (May 30, 2012)

bricycle said:


> John, thanks for getting the pics.
> Other than it's decent paint on the frame, the remainder is very rough. Seat pan is bent, wood wheel is warped at the stem hole, missing " block style" chain($100-$150 part if you can even find one that long), remaining grip shot, of course missing "fixie" rear wheel. So esentially, if complete in this condition, in my opinion, it had a value of $650 to $950. In it's current state, $300 would be on the high side. Just trying to be honest. Good luck/best wishes with what ever you decide, bri.




Thanks Brian,

I appreciate your input! I think it's fair to offer a discount to the CABE members if I sell it via auction. This will be interesting if I do, since it may well not reach $300. In any case, I will be happy to ship it to the winner, whatever the final price.

I might catch the bike bug after this learning experience, but I think I lean towards later models.

Thanks again,
John


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## jkent (May 30, 2012)

Six days later and counting..................
just sounds like a big "tease" to me......


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## walter branche (May 30, 2012)

*ready to buy it, even if on ebay*

Your orient is a well built bike , and might sell for around 500.00 on ebay ,, has anyone offered that much?? .i have the parts that will get it on the road ,,. let me know when its on ebay so I can buy it .. thanks 407 656 9840 walter branche  wbranche@cfl.rr.com


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## Nols (May 31, 2012)

jkent said:


> Six days later and counting..................
> just sounds like a big "tease" to me......




Six days? The bike is 115 years old, and I've had it for a LONG time....LOL


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## Nols (May 31, 2012)

walter branche said:


> Your orient is a well built bike , and might sell for around 500.00 on ebay ,, has anyone offered that much?? .i have the parts that will get it on the road ,,. let me know when its on ebay so I can buy it .. thanks 407 656 9840 walter branche  wbranche@cfl.rr.com




I will, Walter. BTW, no one has really even made an offer, which is fine. I haven't really solicited offers. 

Thanks,

John


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## nikkoo (Jun 2, 2012)

I'm interested. You can send pictures to me PM me
thank you


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## Nols (Jun 15, 2012)

*Auction begins tonight at 9 PM EDT on Ebay*

Hey everyone,
As I promised, I'm letting you all know that this bike is starting on ebay tonite for 7 days at 9pm eastern.

Good luck to all who are interested!

Thanks,
John


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## pelletman (Jun 15, 2012)

Nols said:


> I will, Walter. BTW, no one has really even made an offer, which is fine. I haven't really solicited offers.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John




That isn't true, I made an offer


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## Nols (Jun 15, 2012)

pelletman said:


> That isn't true, I made an offer




I stand corrected. Sorry Pelletman - I just went and reread PMs and yes, you did make a nice offer.

It isn't that I will necessarily get more, although that would be very nice, I was trying to be fair. Perhaps you'll get it for less.

I do apologize.


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## walter branche (Jun 16, 2012)

*yes sir-- DAVID*

Yes, I knew you had made an offer , and since it was still  available , I was showing my interest . now it can be an open sale..   How come there is no link to the ebay offering ??? walter branche ---      O K , I found it and now am,the high bidder ,thanks pb


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## Nols (Jun 16, 2012)

*link*



walter branche said:


> Yes, I knew you had made an offer , and since it was still  available , I was showing my interest . now it can be an open sale..   How come there is no link to the ebay offering ??? walter branche ---      O K , I found it and now am,the high bidder ,thanks pb




http://www.ebay.com/itm/230810356643?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649

Sorry Walter - I hope this works.

John


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## jkent (Jun 22, 2012)

*bike SOLD*

Final EBAY price $1502.00


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## pelletman (Jun 23, 2012)

Holy crap.


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## Nols (Jun 23, 2012)

pelletman said:


> Holy crap.




That's what I said! I really want to thank everybody on The Cabe for their interest, time and help with this bike.

I really didn't know if it was worth much of anything until all of your input.

Thanks!


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## 66TigerCat (Jun 23, 2012)

I think the fact that it was original paint was a huge factor. The red (or burgundy or magenta or whatever you want to call it) colored ones aren't as typical as the black ones. I haven't seen that many Leader models either. Congratulations on the sale.


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## Nols (Jun 23, 2012)

66TigerCat said:


> I think the fact that it was original paint was a huge factor. The red (or burgundy or magenta or whatever you want to call it) colored ones aren't as typical as the black ones. I haven't seen that many Leader models either. Congratulations on the sale.




Won't the buyer strip the paint off and repaint it, though? I'm very curious now, about how these things are restored.
I can't believe I almost threw it away. I was going to keep the wooden wheel because it looks cool, but I was ready to toss the rest!


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## rustyspoke66 (Jun 23, 2012)

Original is best!


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## Nols (Jun 23, 2012)

rustyspoke66 said:


> Original is best!




I agree, but the paint is crumbling off pretty good. I guess it could be clear coated or something, otherwise I think it would eventually all flake off.


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## New Mexico Brant (Apr 14, 2020)

Anybody here end up with this?....way back when.
I would love to see pictures of it now!  Killer bike.


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