# Mystery Tandem Project (similar to Orient/Pierce/American)



## Groundhog

Hi All
I'll be covering resto work on this mystery tandem that I picked up in Niagara Falls. The bike's recent history includes decades in storage and, in the 1960s, use as a sign on a shop in Massachusetts. 

The leads I've gotten so far include Orient (the chain wheels), Pierce (basic frame layout, minus rear headset and split post bases), and America (split/bifurcated post bases)

Here's the photo album- I'll be taking more pics today and tomorrow.
http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/album.php?albumid=1162


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## Groundhog

What I've learned between trimming the tree and avoiding my folks fighting over the goose in the kitchen:

-Original color seems to be black but some places show silver through that doesn't look like bare metal- front fork, maybe a spot on the frame. Possible nickel-plating?

-Badge is missing but holes are present, suggesting a tall, narrow emblem. One of the sign brackets was welded where the badge used to be, leaving the square patch I took for a ghost.

-Wheels are 26" steel (rear plain, front with a center ridge). Tires are rotten Schwinn Straight Wall Sport Touring - somewhat miraculously, they hold air

-Rear hub is a new departure which will bear more cleaning- seems very small to stop that much weight

-Seats are leatherette (?) some of it looks like pulp leather with cloth backing. They are matched and have brass grommets on back for tool bags

[Will add photos to illustrate this soon]


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## fat tire trader

I remember seeing that tandem on Ebay many times. I considered buying it, I have too many tandems, so I didn't. I'm glad that you got it. I really like the seat tubes. It appears that the wheels and seats are not original, the rest of the bike probably is. Is this going to be a wall hanger or a rider?
Chris


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## Groundhog

Yep- I saw one previous listing for it The ad said back wheel might be original but it's not. I assume it would have had 28" wood rims and a beefier brake on the back. The seats will do for now- will cut fresh leather and try my hand at sewing/riveting (wondering if the strap hole grommets could be reused or if someone has a source for new ones). It will be a rider since my walls are taken up with books and records. I put a broom handle through the headset and pedaled down the road a bit (Red Green moment)- smooth and quiet but brake needs rebuild at the least. I'm going to pare away the white paint as I have time..seems to have much of the black left underneath. Handlebars and a couple block pedals are first on the shopping list (should it have blocks or rat traps and is the 1/2 a handlebar a later piece? I like the high bars so my back doesn't get as sore)

Merry Christmas!
The bike is hanging out next to the tree with a ribbon- maybe the second time in a century


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## okozzy

*Art work*

All I know is that those sprockets are going to be "killer" once you clean them up.


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## Groundhog

Looking forward to getting them clean- the white paint is tenacious further out from the hub/range of errant grease/oil
Here are pics of the sprockets and other details (seatpost top with sign bracket, base of post, back fork) in case they help with identification.

It does seem to have had fenders installed at one point- there are holes for a rear fender and the bottom screw is still in there. Could have been added later- bottom one sort-of looks like it was punched and drilled


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## Gary Mc

Oliver, Can you take a pic of the coaster brake arm?  Thanks. Gary


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## Groundhog

Will post one- It does say New Departure on the arm and New Departure/ Model D on the center (opposite grease fitting)

ed. Here you go, Gary- quite shiny in person

Also, re. headbadge- the rivet holes are at ca. 30 and 35.5 cm in the pictures with the tape


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## okozzy

*More mysteries*

I've got a mystery bike of my own... sprocket and fork look similar to your bike


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## Groundhog

Okozzy- I see the similarities- when did the wooden fenders and chain guards come in? Post 1900? Given the below patent date, that could explain the fender mounting holes on mine. I also found a couple places that could be the remains of brackets for a guard. The nickel on the top of the fork is the same place I thought I was finding it. 

I just cleaned the crank hubs and found stampings- will use the search now but if anyone has suggestions for bike manufacturers based on this, let me know! Thanks!

"D&J" PAT'D JAN. 11 1898
PARK CITY MF'G CHICAGO
(it appears on the front and rear)

Again, anyone have suggestions on handlebars?


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## okozzy

*(Pre) Turn of the Century*

I have another bike with the wooden fenders and it's a known 1899 model. As far as handlebars, all you can do is find something period correct; in my opinion.


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## Groundhog

I like the idea of wood fenders and keeping it pre-1900 would be cool. Is the partial fender (not continuing over the back tire) typical of early examples? 

I've seen quite a few tandems with mismatched handlebars- generally the ones with rear steering(?) I'd like to have a matched pair but maybe not spend too much in case this thing does get identified and I can find something closer to what came with it. 

The bearing cover D&J lead is being a pain in search- anyone know what the D&J stand for? I saw the one post saying they supplied parts (hangers) to lots of companies- curious if this was nationally or midwest (nearer Chicago), etc.


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## Groundhog

Here's the bearing cover D&J  marking

And- just found a serial number 19016 and a small 3 stamped on the front.. any help?


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## Gary Mc

*Park City Mfg. Co., D&J Hangers*

They were a national supplier to the best of my knowledge.  Here's an ad from the January 17, 1901 "Bicycling World and Motorcycle Review" touting a number of suppliers to the industry including D&J Hangers.  Park City Mfg. Co. was located in Chicago according to an article in December 6, 1900 about a fire at their warehouse.


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## okozzy

As far as the fender missing the top portion... got broken off before I got it.

Regarding the handlebars, they're going to be different most of the time, due to different purposes and cockpits; just like the difference in chainring sizes, captain v.s. the stoker.





Oliver Mueller-Heubach said:


> I like the idea of wood fenders and keeping it pre-1900 would be cool. Is the partial fender (not continuing over the back tire) typical of early examples?
> 
> I've seen quite a few tandems with mismatched handlebars- generally the ones with rear steering(?) I'd like to have a matched pair but maybe not spend too much in case this thing does get identified and I can find something closer to what came with it.
> 
> The bearing cover D&J lead is being a pain in search- anyone know what the D&J stand for? I saw the one post saying they supplied parts (hangers) to lots of companies- curious if this was nationally or midwest (nearer Chicago), etc.


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## Groundhog

Thanks, Gary!

Okozzy- sorry about the fender.
Is there a reason some tandems have such a low back seat/bars? The fact that this one was all on one level appealed to me.

Well, my paint thinning efforts are not going very well. There seem to be patches of surface rust most places that make the thin original paint friable along their edges. I tried PB blaster and thinner, and finally rags and acetone (and oven cleaner on rear chain rings). I wish there was more black left- will probably clearcoat it to stabilize. 

Photos are a bit stretched because I tried to stitch 4 together for a full closeup of the bike and photoshop cut the frame- making it look like roadkill, so I just cropped it back into two photos


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## okozzy

*Victor Tandem*

Oliver, I don't know if you ever go on the wheelmen website, but just saw this picture... check out the sprockets.


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## fat tire trader

Oliver Mueller-Heubach said:


> Thanks, Gary!
> 
> Okozzy- sorry about the fender.
> Is there a reason some tandems have such a low back seat/bars? The fact that this one was all on one level appealed to me.
> 
> Well, my paint thinning efforts are not going very well. There seem to be patches of surface rust most places that make the thin original paint friable along their edges. I tried PB blaster and thinner, and finally rags and acetone (and oven cleaner on rear chain rings). I wish there was more black left- will probably clearcoat it to stabilize.
> 
> Photos are a bit stretched because I tried to stitch 4 together for a full closeup of the bike and photoshop cut the frame- making it look like roadkill, so I just cropped it back into two photos




Bikes usually get repainted when the original paint is really bad. It sounds like yours is this way. I would try to strip off the newer paint as much as possible to expose details of the original paint that might help you know what it was like. It might have had some intricate gold leaf. Like you can see remnants of on this bike

http://www.fattiretrading.com/1890sl.html

Then you can blast off all the paint and rust and repaint it like you think it was originally. If you don't find any striping or other details, just paint it all black, or the color of your choice.


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## Groundhog

okozzy- no, haven't been on wheelmen but thanks for the pic- looks close! The frame on mine seems like it would be the logical simplification eliminating the rear steering and I don't see any brackets for the spoon brake.

Fat Tire Trader- I'll have to see how I feel about it when I finish wiping the white off. Part of me wants to just touch up the bare spots and clearcoat it, rest wants to enamel and re-nickel everything and get it ready for it's next century. No trace of any pinstriping yet- would love to find some


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## Groundhog

*trouble with Wheelmen registration?*

I've tried for a few days now to register at the Wheelmen- never got a reply/confirmation. Sent a message to their contact address and nothing. Do they only update members weekly? Woud like to do more research over there


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## mre straightbar

*ive got an nos rear fender on my tandem wich would be closer to era correct on yours*

if youre interested


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## Groundhog

mre straightbar said:


> if youre interested




sure! PM me with details? zip 23185
Thanks!


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## okozzy

*Expect slowwwwww.....*



Groundhog said:


> I've tried for a few days now to register at the Wheelmen- never got a reply/confirmation. Sent a message to their contact address and nothing. Do they only update members weekly? Woud like to do more research over there




for what I understand, they are very slow to respond, i.e., old men and not computer savvy.:eek:


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## Groundhog

okozzy said:


> for what I understand, they are very slow to respond, i.e., old men and not computer savy.:eek:




Ah- no worries then. Just wanted to be sure I didn't do something wrong. Thanks!


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## mre straightbar

*heres another pic*




will post more


look close where the cutouts for the seat stays are 
sees its for a taller frame then mine
more like yours


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## Groundhog

I don't know that mine is taller..at least looking at angles/counting spokes. Could you measure along the center of the fender from the bottom screw to the cutouts?


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## mre straightbar

*just by looking at it i can tell its taller*

mines 19" from center of bottom bracket to top of top tube


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## mre straightbar

*what is the measurement of yours?*

with change in height the geometry of rear seat stays changes


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## Groundhog

straight shot from hole for bottom of fender to hole for upper mount of fender is 14.5 inches. From the bottom hole to the top tube of the bike is 19 inches. 

I ordered new wood rims and Amsterdam tires and I have a feeling the fit might be too tight with the new 28" wheels and fatter tires to allow the fender.


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## Groundhog

Also- still looking for handlebars. I don't want to put much into them in case I find out what sort it originally came with but would like to find some that at least aren't too modern-looking. Only two I've found on ebay are from a 60s Huffy Daisy tandem. They'd be only 35 shipped but not liking them much.
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=390513203784


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## Groundhog

Tandem project hasn't progressed very far- waiting on wood rims and need to figure out what spoke length will fit. Going to get some leather to try my hand at restoring the (later) seats. Handlebars will do until I find a period pair. Still some white paint to get rid off and need to break everything down and get/do nickel plating. 

In the meantime, we adopted a 61 Flightliner from JD and that is what's currently disassembled in the bedroom The anniversary Schwinn with the motor still needs some creative chain spacing around the tire, the Monark is the daily driver


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## Hermanator3

*Spoke length*

If you have a good local bike shop that builds wheels, take the hubs (complete, not just the shells) & the rim to them.  They should have the computer program & special tools to determine the correct length of spokes.


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## Groundhog

Thanks for the suggestion! We are down to one bike shop around here- a long-time one, though. Will see what they can do. 

Finally spent some time taking things apart today- got everything off and out of the frame so I can get at the hard to reach bits with the acetone. On closer inspection, I'm sure the fork was nickel plated- the silver color is peeling and bendable in spots, not just bare metal showing through. There are other spots on the frame with similar 'bare metal' areas.. not sure on those.

Got all the small stuff bagged and labeled and stripped the remaining house paint off the disassembled cranks and chainwheels, ready for replating so it would be good to figure out if the fork or anything else should go with them to the shop.


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## Gary Mc

You can use the UNITED BICYCLE INSTITUTE Spoke Length calculator at:

http://www.bikeschool.com/tools/spoke-length-calculator

Works great and easy to use.  My LBS uses this one.


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## Larmo63

This is a very legit tandem. 

It deserves a proper restoration and i think you are on the right track.

Don't lose heart..........!


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## Groundhog

Thanks for the link, Gary! 
larmo- I do like the chainwheels and the clean lines on it- just wish I knew who made it so I could hunt a badge and make it more correct. Probably going to try and pull together a set of rat traps if I can find four with matched/complementary circle cut outs to carry the chainwheel theme

I'm on the road for work so I took the other seat with me to take apart in the hotel room- rust is a lot worse on the pan this time but still solid. Seats aren't legit but they're what I have and they'll be good practice till I find out what should be on it. Anyone have a guess when they were made? Curious when the bike was last brought 'up to date'. The 'leather' is coated canvas/leatherette, no markings that I could find.


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## Larmo63

Did you ask the Wheelmen yet?


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## pelletman

Preserve!  Don't restore..


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## Groundhog

Keeping what's left of the original paint.. or do you mean keep the nickel, too? I think the paint holds most of the use-wear history/biography of the bike.. the brightwork is mostly a study in corrosion. Other than that, seats, bars, etc. were probably lost in maybe the '30s? 

I never had any luck registering on Wheelmen.. will have to dig through emails and try the password they finally sent again


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## Groundhog

Headset had more to say for itself after an electrolysis bath followed by vinegar.
IDEAL PAT. JUNE 13, 99

Is this the Ideal mentioned in this history? Between this, the split down tubes, and the D&J bearing blocks, signs point to Chicago
http://ramblercycles.wordpress.com/gormully-jeffery-rambler-cycles/

Also, one crank has a 38 stamped on it toward the pedal hole.

Sounding more like Gormully & Jeffrey's America Cycle?

seats are all derusted.. not a whole lot of paint left under there. Down to surviving paint and bare metal for now


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## fat tire trader

I don't think it is a G&J, but it could it be a Fowler.


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## fat tire trader

Or maybe an America



The sprockets do look Orient, but...I'm leaning towards Fowler.


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## Groundhog

Thanks- was hoping to find better resolution versions of a couple of those! Seems like the patents postdate the failure of the original Fowler company but Fowler and F.C. Ferrin were probably building bikes pretty similar to those they built and sold in the 1893-7 period.


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## Groundhog

*Iver bars on the Orient/America type bike*

Ok- finally getting back to this tandem after finishing my dissertation! I just pulled out the half a handlebar that was on it when I got it and found a new clue!

So- is there any chance these are what came on a turn of the century bike or would they have been replacements? They would have been about 18" tip to tip.


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## Groundhog

Spent a little more time getting rid of the white paint with acetone- still wondering if this tandem was originally black or plated. The headset is definitely plated and there are trances of smooth plating along all the tubes, not just at the joints.







I've been looking at the badges again and based on the holes, it seems like Fowler (diamond) and Victor (rounded rectangle shape) are the most likely candidates. The Victor is the only one I've seen with the orient-style chainrings so far. Anyone know the distance between the holes on a Fowler badge?


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## Groundhog

Thought I posted these but don't see them now. Parts after paint/gunk removal. The sprockets/chainwheels seem different from the Victor approach, ditto the crank bolting, etc.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi

Looks like Fauber hangers.
Here is a Velo on EBay. The Fauber catalog chainrings are very similar to your tandems.


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## fat tire trader

Any progress on this tandem?


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## Jesse McCauley

For any of you fine folks that have been on the edge of your seat over this bike....


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