# Single speed psychological manipulation



## Sven (Jul 9, 2020)

Has anyone else experience this lately or ever?
I'll give you an example of what I am trying to convey.

A while back, before COVID,  I was following ( on my coaster brake , '55 Schwinn Corvette) a gentleman , dressed in his [ power ranger ] cycling clothes on a nice looking Trek multi - gear bike. We were both traveling south on the Three Notch Trail. He was about 100 or so yards ahead of me and going  a pretty decent speed. For some reason, I had in my mind to try to catch up to him. Don't know why.
Well I kept my eye on my target and started rolling, pedalling faster and faster.  As I was closing in, I believe he sensed that someone was approaching.  He  is shifting gears and pedaling faster. So I pedal even faster.
 I did eventually catch up and got beside him  and started a conversation. He kept looking at and studying my rattish  Schwinn Then he asked in a confused tone " Is that a single speed?"  After confirming it was, that seemed to have psyched him out so much that he just started to slow down. And then I said" Well I gotta go, enjoy the rest of your ride. "  and pedaled a little faster and pulled away. I haven't seen him on the trail since.

I don't know if I had a good cadence and or rhythm pedalling along with a built up endurance, or he just didn't know how to utilize his gears wisely. But it was fun.

Since then I may have done this twice to unsuspecting riders.

I understand that now there are new riders on the trail because of the COVID bike boom. So my victim pickings are few and far between now LOL


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## Mr. Monkeyarms (Jul 10, 2020)

I like to do that with people/roadies that act like jerks on bike paths. Bike paths aren't a good place to train to be the next "Lance". That's what roads are for. It's good to be humbled when you think your farts smell like roses.


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## AndyA (Jul 10, 2020)

Nuthin' wrong with riding a high-tech road bike if that's what you like. But don't confuse style with exercise. If you want exercise, try getting up on the pegs and pumping a 40-pound coaster-brake cruiser up a hill.


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## tripple3 (Jul 10, 2020)

Yes. @Sven it's a ton-O'-Fun




Nice thread Title too!


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## BFGforme (Jul 10, 2020)

Love blasting past the rudies with a beer in my hand and a smoke in my mouth!! Nothing like the looks on there face....


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## 1motime (Jul 10, 2020)

HA!  Inhale, pass them and exhale...  Makes them think


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## Miq (Jul 10, 2020)

I’ve definitely seen this same thing here on the canal rides I do.  The multi gear roadies are not happy about my ND coaster rat keeping up or catching them.   Big head winds seem to be a big equalizer too.  Once they have to down shift into the 2:1 ratio gearing I’m stuck with, they are f’ed.  My legs are used to pumping 800 times a second but they’re not.  

I‘m not the fastest lightweight on the path by any means, but I‘m not the slowest even with one hill climbing gear. It’s not always the bike that’s important, it’s the rider.  Riding everyday is way more important than who’s logo is on their spandex, regardless of the bike.

Im happy lots of people are exercising, no matter how fit they are.  It’s just fun to show another way to be a fit biker with my sandals, 1941 tourist bars and mudguards.    Ride on.


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## BFGforme (Jul 10, 2020)

Miq said:


> I’ve definitely seen this same thing here on the canal rides I do.  The multi gear roadies are not happy about my ND coaster rat keeping up or catching them.   Big head winds seem to be a big equalizer too.  Once they have to down shift into the 2:1 ratio gearing I’m stuck with, they are f’ed.  My legs are used to pumping 800 times a second but they’re not.
> 
> I‘m not the fastest lightweight on the path by any means, but I‘m not the slowest even with one hill climbing gear. It’s not always the bike that’s important, it’s the rider.  Riding everyday is way more important than who’s logo is on their spandex, regardless of the bike.
> 
> Im happy lots of people are exercising, no matter how fit they are.  It’s just fun to show another way to be a fit biker with my sandals, 1941 tourist bars and mudguards.    Ride on.



Yup


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## Arnold Ziffel (Jul 10, 2020)

Cory Foulk’s wild rides
					

Cory Foulk’s barefoot beach cruiser ride at Kona, his fixed gear Ironman 13 years later, and how hip resurfacing enabled him to reach 47 Ironmans, 21 Ultramans – and go for more.




					www.slowtwitch.com
				








__





						SurfaceHippy | Cory Foulk – Ironman and Ultraman, 12/21/05, Dr. Vijay Bose | Hip Resurfacing, BHR, Birmingham Hip, Ironman, Ultraman World, Cory Foulk, Hip surgery, arthritis, AVN, Marathon, OA, Total Hip Replacement, Running, Triathlon
					

On November 30, 2008 Cory Foulk finished his Lifetime 17th Ultraman, 5th since his hip resurfacing surgery on 12/21/05, holding strong to his title of 2nd most Ultraman finishes in the world and earning the title of 2nd in the world for his age group.  See below for the details of an Ultraman...




					www.hipresurfacingsite.com
				












						Cory Foulk and The Cruiser Bike - Babbittville - Babbittville
					

Cory Foulk, who lives on the Big Island, takes us through the year he completed the Ironman on a 61-pound Schwinn Typhoon that he bought for $15.




					babbittville.com
				






			https://www.linkedin.com/in/drfoulk
		










						Finishing The Hawaii Ironman On A $15 Bike
					

Kona's Cory Foulk proves it's not about the bike.




					www.triathlete.com
				





If  you've never heard of Cory  Foulk  doing  an  IRONMAN  in 1996  on   an  old   heavy   beach  cruiser,    you should read about it.
The links above have some information about it.    You might find other older articles that cover that feat in greater detail.
I am surprised that  no  one  has considered making a made-for- broadcast television movie  about  it or loosely based on the story.
It could make for a good family friendly two hour movie  that  could be done cost effectively,  yet would probably get decent ratings
during the networks' sweeps period.


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## fattyre (Jul 11, 2020)

You mean I’m not the only one who dose this?  Thinks it’s awesome when you smoke someone on a 50 to 80 year old ballon bike???    Sounds like we all need the same tattoo!

Most fun for me is the agro bike path (Roadie look) rider who’s trying everything just to pass.

I’m just riding along doing my thing someone creeps up. They’re persistent.   Then they make their move...   They proceed to be stupid in front you. Can’t hold the pace, pick terrible lines, jack the brakes or get shady at intersections thinking that’s gonna be we’re they put a gap on you.  Is a good show for a minute 

Just wish I had real brakes sometimes.  Maybe on the next build.


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## 1motime (Jul 11, 2020)

fattyre said:


> You mean I’m not the only one who dose this?  Thinks it’s awesome when you smoke someone on a 50 to 80 year old ballon bike???    Sounds like we all need the same tattoo!
> 
> Most fun for me is the agro bike path (Roadie look) rider who’s trying everything just to pass.
> 
> ...



Brakes can sometimes work against you on a sandy bike path.  Like you said it is all about the line picked!


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## bikejunk (Jul 11, 2020)

It would be the first hill you climb.b or a hairpin acceleration is where you need a light multi speed -trak bikes were still used in TT in the 80s by myself and a few others but a simple headwind will make you wish you had your gears


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## Mr. Monkeyarms (Jul 11, 2020)

When being passed while on a somewhat leisurely ride by someone out "training" it's fun to grab onto their wheel and watch their surprise when they look over their shoulder to gloat over how they blew past and left you and your old bike in the dust. My '19 Mead Ranger is good for this.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Jul 11, 2020)

just laughing at you guys cuz you are all nuts.     if you passed a roadie while riding a 50 lb. fat tire bike with low pressure tires and coaster brakes it is because they let you. how fast can you go for a mile or so? 15?  maybe if you are young and fit.... and I have to assume we are only talking about the flat roads.

I'm 60, and one quarter the cyclist I used to be. my Le Mond will take me well over 40 on a good downhill without even pedaling after the first 100 feet or so.  15 is a good *all day* cruise speed on the flats. I could probably do 25 for a bit if I pushed myself. did 30 on the flats once when I was young and handsome.... just long enough to get that fast and then coast... racers run a whole race doing 30.

this post reminds me of the "54 MPH on a Stingray" guy.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Jul 11, 2020)

AndyA said:


> Nuthin' wrong with riding a high-tech road bike if that's what you like. But don't confuse style with exercise. If you want exercise, try getting up on the pegs and pumping a 40-pound coaster-brake cruiser up a hill.




 your heart and muscles have no idea what bike you are riding.  exercise is 100 percent all about what you put into it.


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## the tinker (Jul 11, 2020)

Sven, you're old. You're going to hurt yourself. Have a beer.


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## Sven (Jul 11, 2020)

the tinker said:


> Sven, you're old. You're going to hurt yourself. Have a beer.



That's the best advise I have heard in a while.  Thanks doc .


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## wheelbender6 (Jul 12, 2020)

I can't claim that I have passed any of the spandex guys lately, but I do enjoy the attention I get on a 59 year old bike.


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## Barto (Jul 12, 2020)

Sven said:


> Has anyone else experience this lately or ever?
> I'll give you an example of what I am trying to convey.
> 
> A while back, before COVID,  I was following ( on my coaster brake , '55 Schwinn Corvette) a gentleman , dressed in his [ power ranger ] cycling clothes on a nice looking Trek multi - gear bike. We were both traveling south on the Three Notch Trail. He was about 100 or so yards ahead of me and going  a pretty decent speed. For some reason, I had in my mind to try to catch up to him. Don't know why.
> ...



You call them Power Rangers?   Hahahahaha hahaha!!!!  Yeah, not my Jam!


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## Rivnut (Jul 12, 2020)

Around here they're known as a "Lance Lycra."


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## John D. Williams (Jul 18, 2020)

tripple3 said:


> Yes. @Sven it's a ton-O'-Fun
> View attachment 1226751
> Nice thread Title too!



Haha that's hilarious.


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## OC_Rolling_Art (Jul 21, 2020)

tripple3 said:


> Yes. @Sven it's a ton-O'-Fun
> View attachment 1226751



Nice, it looks possible that you might be getting ready to blast your horn...


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## tripple3 (Aug 16, 2020)

OC_Rolling_Art said:


> Nice, it looks possible that you might be getting ready to blast your horn...


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## 1motime (Aug 16, 2020)

tripple3 said:


> View attachment 1248903



That is a big Honker.  They might know you are there.  And then!!


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 16, 2020)

I am slowly figuring out bicycle collectors and cyclists are two different groups. not sure why "the spandex crowd" is seen as something to be ridiculed. 

riding a bike with a high quality frame, 125 PSI 700 teeny tiny tires, 20 bladed spokes, and index shifters in the brake levers is a blast. if you are fit and never rode one give it a try. see if you can do 30 on the flats.


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## tripple3 (Aug 16, 2020)

1motime said:


> That is a big Honker.



Yoder Goose horn, on a few bikes now.
I squeeze it gently 3 times, honk-honk-honk.
People know I'm coming.



49autocycledeluxe said:


> I am slowly figuring out bicycle collectors and cyclists are two different groups. not sure why "the spandex crowd" is seen as something to be ridiculed.
> 
> riding a bike with a high quality frame, 125 PSI 700 teeny tiny tires, 20 bladed spokes, and index shifters in the brake levers is a blast. if you are fit and never rode one give it a try. see if you can do 30 on the flats.



I think I have a foot in both groups.
Small collection and ride a LOT.
I did try the teeny tire bike, they are FAST!
I have been clocked doing 19 mph on a couple of my old bikes.
It's completely different.
I'm really happy where I am.
I still consider adding another bike; so I'm a "Collector".
I don't ridicule; but I'm not wearing spandex.
I do wear a "Jersey" occasionally: a gift from Bob Hieronimus.
VW Light Bus  http://lightvwbus.com/


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 16, 2020)

tripple3 said:


> I think I have a foot in both groups.
> Small collection and ride a LOT.
> I did try the teeny tire bike, they are FAST!
> I have been clocked doing 19 mph on a couple of my old bikes.
> ...




I don't do spandex or clipless pedals and fancy shoes anymore. I recently got normal flat pedals, new bars, shorter stem and moved the seat forward on my fancy racin' bike so I could ride it again ... seems my neck can no longer hold up my giant head with dropped bars and be comfortable.

I have a cheap cycle computer on one road bike, just speed, MPH, trip miles, and what time it is. I may get another one for my DX so I can see how far I go when I take that one out.


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## Sven (Aug 17, 2020)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> I am slowly figuring out bicycle collectors and cyclists are two different groups. not sure why "the spandex crowd" is seen as something to be ridiculed.
> 
> riding a bike with a high quality frame, 125 PSI 700 teeny tiny tires, 20 bladed spokes, and index shifters in the brake levers is a blast. if you are fit and never rode one give it a try. see if you can do 30 on the flats.




Believe me, the men and women I was able to catch and go by were not like the folks you see on GCN. I did it more of a personal challenge. 
 But the configuration of a Schwinn Corvette and incorrect seat height which lead to very sore quadriceps . Broke me of that.
I did listen to both my doctors,  who advised me that I was not 26 anymore.  Dr @the tinker  gave me the best advise "  have a beer".
For the most part, "Spandex, Big Box , Classic and Antique riders", get along very
well here. We look out for and help one another on the trail.
Though modern road biking is not my cup of tea. I find modern bicycle technology fascinating. 
Me in spandex....


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## partsguy (Aug 17, 2020)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> I am slowly figuring out bicycle collectors and cyclists are two different groups. not sure why "the spandex crowd" is seen as something to be ridiculed.
> 
> riding a bike with a high quality frame, 125 PSI 700 teeny tiny tires, 20 bladed spokes, and index shifters in the brake levers is a blast. if you are fit and never rode one give it a try. see if you can do 30 on the flats.




My 1997 Bianchi, out off all the roadies I have owned, is my favorite. I could use a slightly bigger frame would be my only complaint. The gears are wonderful and will pull my daughter’s trailer with no strain. It will stop with all the extra weight no sweat and the composite shifters are the best I ever had.

Performance wise, it blows away the classics. Why shouldn’t it? It is 40-50 years newer!

That said, if I take a classic, I take it because I choose to take it easy, slow down, and go ride in style. I don’t do it to race $3,000 roadies!


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## 1motime (Aug 17, 2020)

Form vs Function  Each era has some of each


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## BFGforme (Aug 17, 2020)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> I don't do spandex or clipless pedals and fancy shoes anymore. I recently got normal flat pedals, new bars, shorter stem and moved the seat forward on my fancy racin' bike so I could ride it again ... seems my neck can no longer hold up my giant head with dropped bars and be comfortable.
> 
> I have a cheap cycle computer on one road bike, just speed, MPH, trip miles, and what time it is. I may get another one for my DX so I can see how far I go when I take that one out.



Should be able to get a app on your phone that does the same thing as cyclometer! Records top speed, average speed, time ride, length....etc


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 17, 2020)

BFGforme said:


> Should be able to get a app on your phone that does the same thing as cyclometer! Records top speed, average speed, time ride, length....etc




I can't even spell app.


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 18, 2020)

Most casual riders don't get much out more than, say, 5 speeds. Even then, a 3 or a 4 speed is almost as good as a 5 if the gearing range is the same, at least for the casual rider. In flatter terrain, a single speed - when properly geared to the rider - is perfectly fine. A professional rider, on a difficult course will get the most of a large number of gears, but that's not 99.5% of riders out there. The issue is that, from a marketing standpoint, more gears means more money and more gears gives the rider a false sense of confidence when the terrain gets tough. In reality, the casual rider might only be using like 3, 4 or 5 of the gears the most, with other gears getting hardly any use, and that's in moderately hilly terrain. The average rail trail or canal trail that is flat or gently sloping is good ground for a single or a kick-back two speed.


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## BFGforme (Aug 18, 2020)

Built my girl a killer 7spd and uses maybe 2 gears! Should have just thrown the cheap 3spd on it instead, but I liked the cool factor of having 7!!


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 18, 2020)

SirMike1983 said:


> Most casual riders don't get much out more than, say, 5 speeds. Even then, a 3 or a 4 speed is almost as good as a 5 if the gearing range is the same, at least for the casual rider. In flatter terrain, a single speed - when properly geared to the rider - is perfectly fine. A professional rider, on a difficult course will get the most of a large number of gears, but that's not 99.5% of riders out there. The issue is that, from a marketing standpoint, more gears means more money and more gears gives the rider a false sense of confidence when the terrain gets tough. In reality, the casual rider might only be using like 3, 4 or 5 of the gears the most, with other gears getting hardly any use, and that's in moderately hilly terrain. The average rail trail or canal trail that is flat or gently sloping is good ground for a single or a kick-back two speed.




a great many people don't need more than one gear because gears confuse them. how many times have I seen a person on a multi speed bike struggling up an overpass in a wrong gear. I have a buddy like that. he has no car and only a bike... a hybrid 18 speed. he does not shift, he only has one speed - slow. he keeps the gears on the big ring up front yet does not go more than 6 or 7 MPH. his pedal cadence is probably 30 rpms. takes him hours to get anywhere. he has NEVER stood up on the pedals to get up a hill or make a green light. he has aquired NO cycling skills in the 10 years since he had a car.


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## fattyre (Aug 18, 2020)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> just laughing at you guys cuz you are all nuts.     if you passed a roadie while riding a 50 lb. fat tire bike with low pressure tires and coaster brakes it is because they let you. how fast can you go for a mile or so? 15?  maybe if you are young and fit.... and I have to assume we are only talking about the flat roads.









Flat roads for sure.   To many intersections  to keep above 17 though


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 18, 2020)

fattyre said:


> Flat roads for sure.   To many intersections  to keep above 17 though




the speed is useless without a photo of the bike.


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## fattyre (Aug 18, 2020)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> the speed is useless without a photo of the bike.


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## 1motime (Aug 18, 2020)

On a vintage coaster brake bike wind direction and speed is actually the biggest consideration.  Next to size of legs


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## 1motime (Aug 18, 2020)

fattyre said:


> View attachment 1250175



Photo does not show rear hub or right side handlebar.  Geared?


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## fattyre (Aug 18, 2020)

1motime said:


> Photo does not show rear hub or right side handlebar.  Geared?




Morrow coaster..  46 10 gear. 650x2.35.   Typically I run 20/22 psi f/r.    The big tires really increase my roll out.  I’d like to actually put an 11 tooth cog on, but my tire hits the chain stay so big gear it is.


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## 1motime (Aug 18, 2020)

Nice bike!  It probably rolls great!


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 18, 2020)

come by and borrow my fully equipped B-6 with a springer and 50 year old tires. it weighs over 50 pounds. I know i can go much faster on my stripped down DX with old parts than the B-6. I bet yours is lighter than my steel mountain bike @27lbs.

are those modern tires mounted on aluminum hoops?


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 18, 2020)

that is a cool bike!!


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## SKPC (Aug 19, 2020)

If you are riding a new bike and you are a strong rider, it is not the bike that makes you fast.   When you are riding not hiding a collectable bike and you are a strong rider,  it is about the bike!.   @cyclingday  I could comment at length here about my adventures on my modified *old* bikes when I come up on to large groups riding very expensive road bikes cruising under 20.  If I catch one of these packs in the flats on one of the four old modified bikes below,  it is always fun to pass the entire group and then creep the speed up.    Just a game we all can play and one I enjoy very much.   If a truly strong/experienced rider on a fast/light machine wants to dispatch you, they can and will with some effort, and this happens to me even when haulin-A.   You can only smile when they peel you off the back.


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## 1motime (Aug 19, 2020)

SKPC said:


> If you are riding a new bike and you are already a strong rider, it is not the bike that makes you fast.   When you are riding a collectable bike and you are a strong rider out riding not hiding,  it is about the bike!. @cyclingday  I could comment at length here about my adventures on my modified *old* bikes when I come up on to large groups riding new $5K road bikes going over 18mph. Most of these groups cannot get away from me when I ride these three below, but the most fun of all is passing them and then busting up the decision-less group after putting the power down... Just a game we all play.
> View attachment 1250541
> View attachment 1250540
> View attachment 1250539
> View attachment 1250542



Nice group of bikes.  They look like they have a purpose.  Lots of form also.  You must really lean into it on the first one and on the Monark.  Probably some young guy!


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## SKPC (Aug 19, 2020)

64 and getting younger..


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## 1motime (Aug 19, 2020)

More power to you..


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 19, 2020)

""If you are riding a new bike and you are already a strong rider, it is not the bike that makes you fast.""

that is incorrect. 

a high end bike makes you faster. I have a nice double butted  Chromoly road bike from 1983.  all Shimano 600. 12 speeds. nice wheelset and 125 PSI tires. friction shifters on the down tube

if I went to the local paved creek trail and did 10 miles @ 150 BPM on my heart rate monitor on this bike, then next day on my 2003 Lemond my time would be MUCH faster on the Lemond with the same effort. stiff Reynolds 853 frame, aero wheels with 20 bladed spokes and Shimano Dura Ace components with index shifting  in the brake levers. all this makes me much faster. 

if I had this Lemond in my 20's I could have cut an hour off my Century time. it is that much faster. I'd say most of the difference is in the wheels, then the stiff frame that puts more of your energy into moving the bike forward rather than flexing the frame. that would really make a difference going up hill.


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## SKPC (Aug 19, 2020)

^^^this is true. Just generalizing in my diatribe above.  Any weight removed from a bikes' wheels or from the bike itself will make YOU faster no doubt, but the bike itself will not make you a better rider, in general, unless it looks really good.


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## cyclingday (Aug 19, 2020)

Sorry, Lance.
For me, It’s all about the bike!



This latest acquisition is a nice compromise between old and new.
I call it a Performance Beach Cruiser.
It’s got a Sachs Duomatic Coaster Brake, that gives you an easy pedaling gear for the hills and the wind, and a nice tall gear for downwind/downhill flying.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 19, 2020)

when compared to steel fat tire wheels of course the weight on any road bike wheel will be less. you really need to spend a lot on wheels to save enough weight to make a difference.

what makes wheels really "fast" are precision bearings, fewer spokes / bladed spokes. spokes cause a lot of drag on bikes. my rims are deep, so the spokes are shorter, less aerodynamic drag, and stiffer wheel. 20 spokes over 36. flat bladed spokes rather than round. low total weight of the bike is more of a cool factor than performance enhancer. we are only talking 5 - 6 pounds on lightweight bikes compared to regular "10 speeds". 

brisk road riding as well as mountain biking do indeed make you a better rider. as well as a knowledge of cycling ergonomics and getting the bike to fit you properly rather than look cool with the seat too low.


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## 1motime (Aug 19, 2020)

cyclingday said:


> View attachment 1250688
> Sorry, Lance.
> For me, It’s all about the bike!
> View attachment 1250687
> ...



That is a really nice bike!  What is the frame?


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## 1motime (Aug 19, 2020)

The legs need to extend for effective push.  Tough on a vintage 18" frame for the taller riders


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## cyclingday (Aug 19, 2020)

1motime said:


> That is a really nice bike!  What is the frame?




Thanks!
The frame, fork, handlebar, and seat post, are Johnny True Torch/ Cook Brothers Racing tribute.


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## Sven (Aug 20, 2020)

1motime said:


> The legs need to extend for effective push.  Tough on a vintage 18" frame for the taller riders



Amen to that....experienced this concept first hand ( or leg)


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 20, 2020)

riding with the seat too low is like driving your car with a spark plug wire removed.


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## SKPC (Aug 20, 2020)

1motime said:


> Nice group of bikes.  They look like they have a purpose.  Lots of form also.  You must really lean into it on the first one and on the Monark.  Probably some young guy!



Thank you for the kind comments regarding the modified bikes above. My favorite all-arounder is the Elgin.  Form follows function.


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## SKPC (Aug 20, 2020)

@cyclingday  Isn't that guys' (Johnny T.T.) shop over off of Dyer in Santa Ana? He did some welding work on my Shelby Flyer.


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 20, 2020)

Yes, the fit of the bike and whether it is appropriate for the sort of riding you are doing are really important. People talk about the relatively low quality of many big box store bikes, but what is even more a worry for me is the fact that at a big box store, the customer is not being given good advice or is not being educated on the fit of the bike, whether the bike is suitable for their purpose, etc. The internet can help fill in if people do research, but there's no substitute for point-of-sale help and education. It's a shame so many independent, local bike shops have closed.


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## Miq (Aug 20, 2020)

Well said @SirMike1983.  There's a similar situation in the musical instrument business and probably many others.  it's getting harder and harder to find a local music store to get personalized help.  It shouldn't always be about the lowest possible cost.  Some stuff just doesn't lend well to a big box store or the internet...

I do however like flying on my 41 New World and seeing @SKPC's sweet bikes and his amazing mountain climb pics, leading the pack of riders 1/3rd his age.


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## piercer_99 (Aug 20, 2020)

well interestingly enough, I have this old bike, I mean, 100 years is kind of old, and it is fast.   It really is, even with this guy who is knocking on 60's door.

On the original post about passing up people on much newer bikes with multiple speeds and serious riders, yes it is a blast.

The quickest I have had it is 28 mph on the flat, in just under a tenth of a mile. No, I can't keep it at that pace, but I can get it there in a sprint. Oddly enough it was actually sold as a sprint racer.

25.5 pounds of fun. Tires roll at about 65psi.

Stop by anytime, you are more than welcome to take it for a spin.  Also, no, the saddle isn't low, the frame is high.


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## Sven (Aug 21, 2020)

Im going to throw this in , seems like a lot of experience here.

What is the proper leg angle at the bottom stroke ? Some report 5 to 1O degrees, while others say 25 to 35 degrees. Thanks


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## Mr. Monkeyarms (Aug 21, 2020)

Your knee should be at about 30°, generally, for efficiency. The ball of your foot should be centered on the pedal spindle. When cranks are horizontal, your knee cap on the fore foot should be in line with the pedal spindle. Micro adjust to fit for comfort & physical limitations.


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## vincev (Aug 21, 2020)

It is fun to keep up with the spandex gang BUT given two EQUAL riders the 19 pound high tech bike will leave us in the dust.Its like old cars.I like to think the old cars are and were fast in the 60's but the new cars leave them in the dust.Its still fun to dream though.


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## hotrod (Aug 21, 2020)

This tread has got me wandering. how can you make an old bike faster? or what makes a bike fast? would adding alloy rims to say a typhoon make it faster? longer crank arms?


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## 1motime (Aug 21, 2020)

Just about anything would make an old bike faster.  Every new part replaces a old.  Can't have them both.  Depends on what you want to be left with.


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## Goldenrod (Aug 21, 2020)

We were on a Whizzer motorbike ride and we passed a bicyclist.  As we went down hill the guy passed all of us and then put his hands up.  We didn't know we were in a race.  During the next stop we agreed to not tell anyone but it is too good a story.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 21, 2020)

hotrod said:


> This tread has got me wandering. how can you make an old bike faster? or what makes a bike fast? would adding alloy rims to say a typhoon make it faster? longer crank arms?




Aluminum rims would be a good start. it then gives you better tire choices as well. rebuilt and properly adjusted hubs help too.... there is only so much you can do before it loses the vintage flavor, if you want to make an old bike fast get rid of everything but the frame and seat post.


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 21, 2020)

When you reduce the weight of the bike and rider (either one), you cause the force requirement to get them moving (object at rest tends to stay at rest) to drop. A lighter bike is not necessarily a "faster" bike because speed is largely the product of the force of the rider on the pedals. A strong rider on a 75 lb ballooner can outride a very poor rider on a 15 pound road bike. What reducing weight gives you is more excess force beyond what it takes to begin moving the bike and hence more speed for the same amount of force. If other factors are working against you (bad bearings, rubbing brake shoes, etc.) then whatever you've done to reduce weight can be offset by mechanical issues holding you back.

The first place to reduce weight is at the rims/wheels. The wheels have a huge effect on how a bike handles and feels. From there you might move on to the cranks, fenders, handlebars/stem, pedals. By the end you're down to just an old frame with a bunch of modern parts.

Remember too that having good, properly maintained bearings and properly adjusted brakes will help through reduction of friction. This is one place that I definitely would check - you can continue to use original parts but help your cause by getting rid of badly worn or etched bearings, cups, and cones. You can adjust the brakes so they properly release. Go with a modern, slick lithium grease rather than the thick, old-type brown axle grease. Do the occasional clean-out and re-grease. All basic stuff, but maintenance can be looked at as cumulative.


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## piercer_99 (Aug 21, 2020)

this is a very interesting article.

I like this quote.
“Everyone wants sexy, super light bikes, but good legs are sexy too. I see a lot of people with expensive bikes but they have cheap legs. It's like driving a Corvette with a two-cylinder engine"









						No, a Lighter Bike Won't Make You (Much) Faster
					

Some top-tier bikes tip the scales at just over ten pounds—with a $15,000 price tag. But we have good news: You can save your money, and still go fast.




					www.outsideonline.com


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## Sevenhills1952 (Aug 21, 2020)

vincev said:


> It is fun to keep up with the spandex gang BUT given two EQUAL riders the 19 pound high tech bike will leave us in the dust.Its like old cars.I like to think the old cars are and were fast in the 60's but the new cars leave them in the dust.Its still fun to dream though.



It's not a dream, though.
If you look at the world's fastest supercars, Bugatti, Porsche, McLaren, Lamborghini, etc., there are those that will run high 9 second 1/4 mile times. Factory cars of the 60s wouldn't do that...but you were given the building blocks to make it lots faster.
One example is wife and I talking to our friend Herman Lewis (rip) years ago with his Rambler! 1969 SS AMX, 390 cu.in. running 2 seconds faster 1/4m than those 6-7 $figure supercars...leaving them in the dust.
Lots of class cars (i.e., had to be factory weight, cu.in.,etc) were and are still faster than supercars. 
Top Fuel is another matter, reaching speeds faster (well over 300 mph) in just 1/4 mile using the Chrysler Hemi designed in the 60s, thousands of hp, blower/nitromethane, faster than the supercar top speed.
I'm not trying to argue, new bike technology is different and exceeds old bike performance.




Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk


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## SKPC (Aug 21, 2020)

Sven said:


> Im going to throw this in , seems like a lot of experience here.
> 
> What is the proper leg angle at the bottom stroke ? Some report 5 to 1O degrees, while others say 25 to 35 degrees. Thanks



Seat height 1st Sven.  When sitting on the bike with your *heel* placed square on the pedal at 6-o'clock with your foot flat, your knee should be only "slightly" bent.  Some may want a bit more bend. This usually is the most overlooked adjustment.  If you want easier pedaling or higher performance this is key.   From there, slide your saddle forward or back to achieve @Mr. Monkeyarms  kneecap adjustment.  This puts you where you want to be over the crankset and bars and gives the most power.   Don't forget we are all built different. Nothing is perfect.  Many adjustments when you think about it.   Stem rise/reach, bar length and seats are also a factor when setting a bike up to fit each of us individually.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 21, 2020)

here is a video showing bike fit. we don't really have any options for reach on oldies, but it shows where you need the seat for optimal efficiency.






I see many people riding with the arch of their feet over the center line of the pedal rather than the ball of their feet. riding with the arch over the center line takes your calf muscles out of the picture.


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## Sven (Aug 22, 2020)

Thanks guys for the input.
 I did adjust my seat height on my lightweights using the  calculation _inseam multiplied by 1.09  ( top of seat to  center pedal)._ I did not do Fore - Aft positioning , due to the seats construction. Probably going to switch seats anyway.
Im not looking to go great speeds on my 79 suburban, just distance without causing damage to my knees or any other parts. . Planning a bike - camping trip on the Greenbrier River ( rail )Trail in West Virginia. Its about 80 miles one way.


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## all riders (Aug 22, 2020)

On the subject of what makes a bike fast or an old bike faster----ROLLING RESISTANCE.  As already stated, weight is one factor--bike and rider combined. I sold a lot of parts to road bike people who wanted to "upgrade" by shaving a gram or two off of their bikes and you could see that they had ten pounds to lose. A light rider should be the first goal--it's cheaper than titanium and good for your heart (which ultimately is the motor of the bike). The other main factor in rolling resistance is tire size/pressure.


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## Miq (Aug 22, 2020)

@Sven I just raise the seat until my leg is very very close to straight when the center of my foot is on the pedal at the bottom of it's stroke.  When I'm riding with the ball of my foot on the pedal, my leg is just slightly bent at the bottom of the stroke.  Your legs are so much stronger when they are almost straight than when they are tightly bent.  Like the difference between standing and squatting. 

The other thing that really helps is thinking about lifting the upstroke foot.  If you take the load off the upstroke half of the crank, your down stroke leg does not have to work so hard.  Even without toe clips it makes a huge difference.  Just lift your foot as it's coming up so it feels like it's about to lift off the pedal, but don't let it come all the way off.   

Sometimes I scoot back a little on my saddle and concentrate on lifting the upstroke foot and it feels like I can go a noticeable amount faster or fight a head wind without using any more energy.    Your 80  mile bike tour sounds killer.


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## SKPC (Aug 23, 2020)

@Sven , sounds like a really fun trip.  Hope the weather holds for you.   
Back to psychological manipulation.   I read a recent analysis on tire pressures somewhere that rolling resistance is NOT necessarily the most important factor for being faster and that road bike competitors are beginning to run softer pressures on a bit wider tires that over time soften a  bumpy or rough ride just enough over the hours to make the overall time faster.    I will dig around today and look for the article...


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## all riders (Aug 23, 2020)

SKPC said:


> @Sven , sounds like a really fun trip.  Hope the weather holds for you.
> Back to psychological manipulation.   I read a recent analysis on tire pressures somewhere that rolling resistance is NOT necessarily the most important factor for being faster and that road bike competitors are beginning to run softer pressures on a bit wider tires that over time soften a  bumpy or rough ride just enough over the hours to make the overall time faster.    I will dig around today and look for the article...



I've read a few things about that lately too--interesting. I think the jury is still out on that. Recently there was also an argument(among roadies) as to 650c wheels making you faster than 700c , a kind of dumb argument that rests on the definition of faster.


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## Mr. Monkeyarms (Aug 23, 2020)

The wider rim/tire thing is a "thing". It allows lower tire pressure which creates a better contact patch for better grip and a little more comfort. The tire molds around imperfections in the terrain to maintain contact with the surface for better handling which translates into more speed/better control. 

Another thing about wheels: rotational weight is about 3 times that of static weight. The wheel is the most important part of anything with wheels. The easier it is to get them spinning, the better they perform. Losing weight on the outside of the wheel has a greater impact on it's efficiency. It takes less energy to get it rolling & the same energy will make it roll faster.


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## all riders (Aug 23, 2020)

Well, Greg Van Avermaet runs on 26mm tires and I can't argue with his results.


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## tripple3 (Aug 23, 2020)




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