# Teens bike ID



## Cooper S. (Feb 19, 2021)

Picked this up from a caber thinking it was going to be a mead, but with 3” vertical headbadge spacing that is probably not the case. It has a bottom bracket serial number of what looks like A12509. I saw a similar sprocket in the “sprocket compilation” thread listed as a hawthorn but the cranks and bottom bracket don’t look original so it might not be either. Any ideas what it is?


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## Archie Sturmer (Feb 19, 2021)

The ribbed forks are nice.  I believe that the oval-shaped rear forks at the bottom bracket might be a clue? 
Excelsior had oval-shaped rear forks; but their bridges between the stays and between the rear forks looked different (in the 1920's).
There was a 1912-14 design patent USD 45,457 for ribbed front forks.


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## oldmtrcyc (Feb 19, 2021)

The ribbed forks are in the Mead brochure from 1913 and on.  I don't have anything earlier.  Following are items that show the replacement sprockets and forks, with ribs and 3 plates for crown.  Note the 4 circles in sprocket.  Only the child's Mead Magnet model showa that sprocket being used. These pictures are from the 1915 brochure, and 1918 has them as well.


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## Cooper S. (Feb 20, 2021)

My issue with that is that it has vertical headbadge holes unlike a mead which has horizontal. Unless there’s some obscure early mead badge.


oldmtrcyc said:


> The ribbed forks are in the Mead brochure from 1913 and on.  I don't have anything earlier.  Following are items that show the replacement sprockets and forks, with ribs and 3 plates for crown.  Note the 4 circles in sprocket.  Only the child's Mead Magnet model showa that sprocket being used. These pictures are from the 1915 brochure, and 1918 has them as well.
> View attachment 1360692
> 
> View attachment 1360693
> ...


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## oldmtrcyc (Feb 20, 2021)

That's all I got.  Good luck


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## Cooper S. (Feb 20, 2021)

I guess I’ll just go with whatever badge will fit lol


oldmtrcyc said:


> That's all I got.  Good luck


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## Archie Sturmer (Feb 20, 2021)

3” badge holes may be uncommon; and I believe that a member Scott may have a few nice ones on eBay, (with dimensions).

Was thinking that the chain ring sprocket looks like a Snyder, fork like a Davis, and the diamond frame might be an (almost) anything.


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## oldmtrcyc (Feb 20, 2021)

Take a look at the sprocket on this schwinn built hawthorn.  Fork crown different. 









						(Schwinn Built) Hawthorne Motobike almost NOS! Original Paint, wood Rims, tires | Sell - Trade: Bicycle Parts, Accessories, Ephemera
					

From my collection is my teens Hawthorne De-Luxe Motorbike (schwinn built frame). She is as close to "new old stock" as possible; still retaining her original paint, pin striping, nickel, wood rims, saddle, and even tires. Truly 100 percent original. I am told that  shortly after the bike was...




					thecabe.com


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## Cooper S. (Feb 20, 2021)

I was thinking schwinn at one point due to the bottom bracket serial numbers. Maybe if it’s 412509 instead of A12509 it could be 







oldmtrcyc said:


> Take a look at the sprocket on this schwinn built hawthorn.  Fork crown different.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Cooper S. (Feb 21, 2021)

so after so more looking around, I noticed a lot of similarities between my frame and other teens schwinn built bikes. I asked Jesse McCauley (I’d tag him but idk his cabe handle) and he says the Schwinn World badge has just under 3” hole spacing. I also asked someone who has an excelsior badge and he says they’re about 3” spacing aswell. Also I found an old thread about a 1916ish excelsior with a very similar serial number placement as mine. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/arnold-schwinn-excelsior-truss-bar-dating.56941/
So is it safe to assume it’s a schwinn built bike of some variety?


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## Archie Sturmer (Feb 21, 2021)

The truss frame bicycle in the link provided, might be an A&S, but I believe that those pictures might show round rear forks at the bottom bracket, and curved bridges ‘tween stays.
Excelsior Michigan City head badge holes might be about 2+7/8 inches, (or even less from Indonesia), which might be considered somewhat close to 3”.


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## ejlwheels (Feb 23, 2021)

I believe it is Schwinn-Made.
1917 Schwinn/Excelsior catalog
(no pic of three plate crown)


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## bricycle (Feb 23, 2021)

Mead type fork, the early Meads had fancy scrolled taller badges with maybe vertical holes.


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## Cooper S. (Feb 23, 2021)

The written description of the fork sounds pretty accurate, I wish it included a photo 







ejlwheels said:


> I believe it is Schwinn-Made.
> 1917 Schwinn/Excelsior catalog
> (no pic of three plate crown)
> View attachment 1362743
> ...


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## Cooper S. (Feb 25, 2021)

Crank is finally out


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## chitown (Feb 26, 2021)

Cooper S. said:


> so after so more looking around, I noticed a lot of similarities between my frame and other teens schwinn built bikes. I asked Jesse McCauley (I’d tag him but idk his cabe handle) and he says the Schwinn World badge has just under 3” hole spacing. I also asked someone who has an excelsior badge and he says they’re about 3” spacing aswell. Also I found an old thread about a 1916ish excelsior with a very similar serial number placement as mine. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/arnold-schwinn-excelsior-truss-bar-dating.56941/
> So is it safe to assume it’s a schwinn built bike of some variety?





Can't rule out Snyder. Later Snyder/Rollfasts have a similar triple crown fork. The sprocket looks early Snyder for sure.


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## Cooper S. (Feb 26, 2021)

What’s the badge spacing for synders?







chitown said:


> Can't rule out Snyder. Later Snyder/Rollfasts have a similar triple crown fork. The sprocket looks early Snyder for sure.


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## Archie Sturmer (Feb 26, 2021)

Mostly side holes; about 1+1/2” plus or minus, (if I recall correctly).

I believe that the numbers stamped into the crank shaft read, “760”.  Seen a couple of those but never thought of them as old(?).


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## Cooper S. (Mar 11, 2021)

While cleaning up the cranks, I found an F stamped on the inside of the sprocket. I’d this a clue?


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## Cooper S. (Dec 1, 2021)

I found this velox for sale on eBay and it looks a lot like my bike. I’m not sure who made velox tho
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-19...ORK-CRANK-SET-/165212407244?campid=5335809022


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## 99 bikes (Dec 1, 2021)

Your bike is similar to mine in this link.

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/two-tone-greenie.92779/

Chainring, chain stays, rear dropouts, and vertical badge all look similar. Fork and seat stay brace are different, but overall it is similar.

My current guess is Michigan City Excelsior made.


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## Archie Sturmer (Dec 1, 2021)

Could these be Excelsior bicycles of Chicago that predate the move to Indiana?


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## Cooper S. (Jan 14, 2022)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Could these be Excelsior bicycles of Chicago that predate the move to Indiana?



That’s a possibility that I’m entertaining. The repop excelsior headbadges dont fit, but I don’t know if the Chicago made excelsiors have different badge holes.


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## Cooper S. (Jun 23, 2022)

It’s definitely a bike now


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## nick tures (Jun 23, 2022)

@Cooper S. looks good came along way !!  that lights sweet !!


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## RustyHornet (Jun 24, 2022)

What a gorgeous simple build! Love it. Looks awesome.  😎


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