# 1940 (?) Elgin just picked up my first pre-war bike!



## jimmythefly (Jul 21, 2022)

I just purchased this locally, and I'm pretty excited to have my first pre-war bike! I'd be happy to learn more and please correct me on anything I say below. I've got a lot of experience with bikes in general, however stuff this old is all new to me. It rides OK, the brake drags a bit when coasting, front hub is loose, and the headset is a bit loose too. 

First order of busines is I need some truss rods for the fork! After that not sure what I'll do with it, I have a zillion questions. 










BB is stamped SC70250. 
Rear hub shell is stamped E□ (square), which I take to mean it was made in the 3rd quarter of 1939. (based on this post by @J-wagon https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/l...-a-possible-elgin-bicycle.205493/post-1402512)

My understanding from doing a search here on the forum is that this particular fork crown indicates a Murray-built bike. And also the monostay (also seen it called hourglass) style seat stay treatment is also Murray (as opposed to Westfield).

I'm guessing 1940, but not positive. I would love to nail down the exact year, parts spec, and paint/finish it would have originally come from the factory with.


----------



## Lonestar (Jul 21, 2022)

Congrats!


----------



## fordmike65 (Jul 21, 2022)




----------



## Archie Sturmer (Jul 21, 2022)

Might be a *1938*–C (or SC, for Sears).


----------



## jimmythefly (Jul 21, 2022)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Might be a *1939*–C (or SC, for Sears).



Thanks! What makes you say that -just the hub date or are there other clues to the year?


----------



## stezell (Jul 21, 2022)

Originally it would have had a rear dropstand without ears due to the fact they're attached to the frame and the fender would have had a dropstand clip. Welcome to the group. 

Sean


----------



## 1817cent (Jul 21, 2022)

Welcome!  Enjoy the ride...


----------



## Rivnut (Jul 21, 2022)

Is there an SE or SD stamped into the BB?  I have a 1940 Elgin with the. MOD502 Sears code (Murray built) along with a model number and a unique serial number.  On a separate line is the SE stamp - rather small.  The ‘39 has a pretty bold SD stamped into the BB.


----------



## jimmythefly (Jul 21, 2022)

Rivnut said:


> Is there an SE or SD stamped into the BB?  I have a 1940 Elgin with the. MOD502 Sears code (Murray built) along with a model number and a unique serial number.  On a separate line is the SE stamp - rather small.  The ‘39 has a pretty bold SD stamped into the BB.



Nope. I checked everywhere else on the BB shell (and rubbed off the grease and dirt in the below pic too), no other markings. 
I also looked at the head tube, fork crown, cluster near the seatpost clamp, and the rear fork ends and didn't see markings in those places.


----------



## jimmythefly (Jul 21, 2022)

I'm curious how much is original. The bars are quite narrow and will absolutely have to be changed for me to be able to ride it. The bars, stem, seatpin, and crankarms are silver painted -was that kind of finish used back then instead of chrome -perhaps on lower-end models?

I can also see differences in the chainguard on my bike compared to others. And of course the saddle, pedals, grips are suspect. 
Personally I think it needs some pinstripes or something, not a fan of the big plain white tank and plain red frame, especially with the white rims too.


----------



## DonChristie (Jul 21, 2022)

Congrats! Heres mine for reference. I believe they are close to the same age and bikes. Mine is badged Elgin


----------



## GTs58 (Jul 21, 2022)

DonChristie said:


> Congrats! Heres mine for reference. I believe they are close to the same age and bikes. Mine is badged Elgin
> 
> View attachment 1666780




Curved seat post tube and OP's is straight, and rear fork ends are diff.


----------



## Nashman (Jul 21, 2022)

Welcome and congrats on a very cool ride. It looks quite straight and has lots of potential to take it further if you wish. The long tank is attractive and those handle bars may very likely be the stock 1/2 moon Torringtons that came on the bike. The rack and chain guard look factory as well and are in good shape. You should have no problem finding out more info and correct parts and tips from Cabers. It probably had a front loading delta fender light. We are a helpful bunch and share and admire your enthusiasm on the Elgin.


----------



## Rivnut (Jul 21, 2022)

Most of the Elgins that I’ve seen follow the date codes that I posted earlier. If that’s the case, the SC would  be for 1938.


----------



## mrg (Jul 22, 2022)

Don't think that tank came out till 40 and 41 came out with the curved seat stay style frame. Murry built as said ( biggest giveaway is the tank! ), most everything looks OG except seat & pedals, can't see the grips to good and not really sure about the stem & missing light, Great project, just change the seat & pedals and make it a rider!


----------



## catfish (Jul 22, 2022)

Welcome!


----------



## DonChristie (Jul 22, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> Curved seat post tube and OP's is straight, and rear fork ends are diff.



Doh! Good eye! Thanks!


----------



## Rivnut (Jul 22, 2022)

My ‘39 has straight bars like the bike @jimmythefly pictures; same chainguard, chainring, and rack, but I don’t have the tank.


----------



## Gully (Jul 22, 2022)

Welcome!!  Bike looks great!


----------



## jimmythefly (Jul 22, 2022)

Rivnut said:


> My ‘39 has straight bars like the bike @jimmythefly pictures; same chainguard, chainring, and rack, but I don’t have the tank.



Good to know! I was really wondering about the chainguard, most of them I see in pics are longer and extend back to overlap the seat stay at the dropout. I wondered if it was original or not.

The rear plate is from Juneau Alaska, 1978. And the sticker on the head tube says CITY OF JUNEAU POLICE DEPT. 0052.

0052 is a pretty low number, I presume this is some sort of registration number, but I guess it could be the bike was confiscated and auctioned off or something and the number is just for inventory of any police property. I'll do some digging.


----------



## jimmythefly (Jul 22, 2022)

mrg said:


> Don't think that tank came out till 40 and 41 came out with the curved seat stay style frame. Murry built as said ( biggest giveaway is the tank! ), most everything looks OG except seat & pedals, can't see the grips to good and not really sure about the stem & missing light, Great project, just change the seat & pedals and make it a rider!




This site shows what they say is a spring 1939 catalog with the tank in it. (pics below) But the tank shown has a horn in it and the horn button, I'm not clear if a plain tank was offered that year or not. (and lots of other details don't match my bike -I have painted wheels, zero chrome, etc.).

I have read elsewhere that in addition to manufacturing differences and running changes in product spec, that individual Sears locations could order from a larger list of parts and accessories and order/assemble/spec bikes for their sales floor that wouldn't necessarily match catalog descriptions and pictures. 
The catalog descriptions and pictures could be off too -I've been tangentially involved in that sort of thing a couple different industries and I'd never presume that the catalog actually showed exactly what really showed up in the shipping carton!

So I could see how a bike with painted rims, no chrome, and a simple tank might be ordered as a budget model, but a step up from the one with no tank at all.


----------



## mrg (Jul 22, 2022)

In the Elgin/JC Higgins book has both the Fully Equipped Sports Model that is more deluxe with aluminum fenders, chrome rims, horn etc. and the Equipped Standard model ( like yours ) had more paint and seen them both with & without a horn.


----------



## Mikeob (Jul 23, 2022)

Here is one i am messn with, was told it looks like a 39 elgin, murray built. The headbadge holes are left to right and not top to bottom. It currently has some schwinn parts. There is a LA Co stamped next to the serial #. Also not sure if chain guard is correct.


----------



## BF2485 (Jul 23, 2022)

maybe the bike was kept in LA County ? Some sort of bike license or theft prevention identification? I bought a middleweight Schwinn for parts last summer and it had a social security number etched into the frame and stem


----------



## Archie Sturmer (Jul 23, 2022)

Nice bike.  Looks like a 1939–D (or SD for Sears); nice enough for its own thread even.
I believe that 1939 was the first year for the curved seat tube mast Elgins. 

The rear fender looks to have provisions for the skirt guards often seen on girls bicycles.
If the bike has been worked on, maybe the badge holes were changed as well?


----------



## jimmythefly (Jul 23, 2022)

What about the over-fork front fender, does that narrow it down?


----------



## mrg (Jul 23, 2022)

I see in that Spring 39 catalog it says "new streamlined tank" on a straight seat stay frame, I'd like to see what's the earliest the curved bar frame shows up in the catalog, in the Elgin book ( reprint of OG catalogs ) 40 S/S still just shows the straight seat stay frame so I'm sticking with the curved seat stay coming out sometime in 40 and mainly used in 41-2 model years.


----------



## piercer_99 (Jul 24, 2022)

what headbadge is on this bike?

is it Elgin or Collegiate?


----------



## jimmythefly (Jul 24, 2022)

piercer_99 said:


> what headbadge is on this bike?
> 
> is it Elgin or Collegiate?



Elgin


----------



## razinhellcustomz (Jul 27, 2022)

jimmythefly said:


> Good to know! I was really wondering about the chainguard, most of them I see in pics are longer and extend back to overlap the seat stay at the dropout. I wondered if it was original or not.
> 
> The rear plate is from Juneau Alaska, 1978. And the sticker on the head tube says CITY OF JUNEAU POLICE DEPT. 0052.
> 
> ...



Going out on a limb here, but what makes you say this bike is from Alaska? That plate looks to be from Juneau Wisconsin and not Alaska.. I could be wrong but this looks like alot of my Wisconsin bike plates from my collection... Really nice Elgin... RideOn...


----------



## jimmythefly (Jul 27, 2022)

razinhellcustomz said:


> Going out on a limb here, but what makes you say this bike is from Alaska? That plate looks to be from Juneau Wisconsin and not Alaska.. I could be wrong but this looks like alot of my Wisconsin bike plates from my collection... Really nice Elgin... RideOn...



You know.. you might be totally right! I didn't even think to check for other places named Juneau. I've lived in Washington state and now Oregon for so long I'm just used to seeing lots of stuff go back and forth between here and Alaska.

Edit to add: it really does look exactly like the other Wisconsin town and city plates that I can find pictures of online, and so far haven't seen any Alaska plates that look like mine.


----------



## razinhellcustomz (Jul 28, 2022)

jimmythefly said:


> You know.. you might be totally right! I didn't even think to check for other places named Juneau. I've lived in Washington state and now Oregon for so long I'm just used to seeing lots of stuff go back and forth between here and Alaska.
> 
> Edit to add: it really does look exactly like the other Wisconsin town and city plates that I can find pictures of online, and so far haven't seen any Alaska plates that look like mine.



Another dead give away is the small 80 decal that was used on the older plates  after the plates expired.. And the decal on the head stock was one that was used when they did away with the metal plates.. Nice Juneau plate by the way..


----------



## Bryan Akens (Aug 7, 2022)

I  am  just  looking  at  the  bike  and  firmly  believing  that  it  was  built  by  Murray....The  repaint  in  a  way  was  a blessing....it  is  basically  in  fairly  good  shape....If  You  are  going  to  ride  it  of  course  You  will  have  to  clean  and  lube  all  bearing  assemblies  which  on  that  is  fairly  simple.......Lucky  You  that  the  tank  is  still  there!!!....Ill  get  criticized  for  this  but  the Elektra  Bicycle  company  sells  a  set  of  new  chrome  truss  rods  that  would  work  and  look  good  on  that...Enjoy  Your  project....


----------

