# I Would Like to Know ? Excelsior? EC Simmons ? Peerless ? Colson ?



## Lux Low (Dec 5, 2016)

I have this Truss frame and have had many frames with some distinct construction traits. The Fender bridges are  Unique and made 3/8" tubing with clean attachment, Which is on the small side. The Bottom 2 stays attaching to the bottom bracket are oval,  not round, which is not very common. Also the Arch Bar has a unique Block attaching the 2 bars. Tring to Identify the Actual manufacturer?

 I do know quite a bit about this construction. EC Simmons Hardware Bikes have this Construction from my experience the Teens but possibly early 1900s  and 1920s. I have also found a Original Early 1900 or teens Peerless with this construction Trait. From my research I know Colson made some EC Simmons Bicycles but think later than this trait. Colson uses a 3/8" straight tubing and oval bottom stays some ballooners ( Clipper & Bullnose ) which made Colson a suspect, but I have a Colson Silver Ring which is the earliest Colson I have had, and the construction is not anywhere the same as the manufacturer in question.  My Main suspect is a True Michigan City Excelsior.  I think Michigan City Excelsior made some EC Simmons Bicycles . This is where I have landed.

Can Anybody Confirm this construction trait or Manufacturer on a True Michigan City Excelsior?

Does anybody know who made Peerless Bicycles or is it the manufacturer in question “Peerless” ?

Does anybody have a Super Early Colson with this type Construction?

Has anybody seen this construction on other bikes that may clue us in.

I don’t think any of the references of the brands above have anything to do with Reconstituted Rollfast  HP Snyder  Ballooner Bikes. The Manufacture in question is from the wood Wheel Era.


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## bricycle (Dec 5, 2016)

It's drilled for fenders so probably post 1914


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## Lux Low (Nov 27, 2018)

Any Body Know if Peerless had a parent Manufacture ?


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## Archie Sturmer (Nov 27, 2018)

Teens “Peerless” bikes were solid by Sears, a 19th century concern which may have since closed.  DPH and Shelby had later Peerless badges.  Sears Peerless bikes sported a Davis #2 chain ring, 3-hearts, later in 1/2” pitch. 

All the Sears Peerless models that I have seen printed ads for was for the diamond frames. 
We may have seen a couple of EC Simmons threads,  showing the arch bar truss frame examples.


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## Lux Low (Nov 27, 2018)

If that's t


Archie Sturmer said:


> Teens “Peerless” bikes were solid by Sears, a 19th century concern which may have since closed.  DPH and Shelby had later Peerless badges.  Sears Peerless bikes sported a Davis #2 chain ring, 3-hearts, later in 1/2” pitch.




If that's the Case,  I can assume Peerless made bikes Directly for Simmons Hardware because the Frame above. I pretty sure is not HP Snyder, and Don't Think Shelby But i will Further Investigate that


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## Archie Sturmer (Nov 27, 2018)

Simmons may have purchased from different makers, perhaps in different years; we have also seen their arch bar truss frames with chain stays made of well-rounded tubes, 19 gage 3/4" tapered to 5/8" as in one catalog. 
I believe that Peerless may have been a 19th C. Ohio manufacturer, but when the arch bar truss frames were more common, I believe that Peerless was not a manufacturer (any longer).


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## Iverider (Nov 27, 2018)

If the manufacturer didn’t violate the Iver Johnson Truss bridge Patent, that would make this frame late teens at the earliest. I believe I have a Simmons hardware double bar roadster but it shares none of the characteristics of your frame. It does share the same color scheme as some of the Simmons bikes on the CABE orange with green darts, and the Westminster badge I found for it fits perfectly.

Some of the catalog pages i’ve seen suggest that they were jobber built bikes with different options for much of the available equipment.


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## Dayton Vintage Speed (Nov 28, 2018)

The two Peerless bikes that I have , a 1908 and a 1914 appear to both be Davis built bikes. It is to my understanding that the 1908 model was the first year for the Sears Peerless name plate as per the 1914 Sears ad. ( see last pic ) I do not have a 1908 catalog but the 1910 and 1914 catalogs show the bikes with the same basic Davis type frame.


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## Lux Low (Nov 29, 2018)

The Key to the Simmons arch bar frame  definitely wound be small 3/8" bridges which the top was NOT drilled and in think someone drilled the bottom ( i do think the bike came with fenders). The  reason i came up with peerless is because i saw and  amazing original Peerless with same 3/8" tubing bridges (was a diamond frame though).  I am drawn to Arch Bar / Truss bridge frames and bikes . Guess since I have had for 3 of them all Simmons bagged and on going mystery. All my Knowledge is hands on with literature back up,  fender bridges, frame connection, and dropouts tell a the DNA and parts attached are telling you like what school it went to.  Here's a 1918 Simmons ad


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## Goldenindian (Nov 30, 2018)

I have a EC Simmons Westminster arch bar. I don’t have any idea who the manufacturer is/and have long wondered.... It has all the same attributes/traits you mentioned LuxLow. I do have good pictures of the fork which I believe may help. Hope this helps.....


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## Goldenindian (Nov 30, 2018)

One guess I have...which I only resently started to  lean towards is D. P Harris . I see these motobikes with is very simple fork crown. The fender bridges seem to be very similar. 3/8s.  The only problem is the I.D for these motobikes being D. P Harris is only a guess.


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## Lux Low (Nov 30, 2018)

That's Good Info, As far as HP Snyder frames I have always thought that they all had the volcano connection at the seat tube to the bottom bracket, It's a Dead Give away for Identification. It would Greatly Improve this research if some one had a positive ID Early ( Teens ) HP Snyder frame to show the seat tube bottom bracket connection also the Oval stays connections to the BB. I Never suspected HP Snyder because all the ones i have seen had volcano joint. I Kinda always thought HPS  were poor quality, the Simmons frames seems a lot better quality. Maybe earlier is better, pretty sure alot of folks may agree LOL


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## Goldenindian (Nov 30, 2018)

Thanks for the info. I just don’t know who made these bicycles!!.....I hope we can get to the bottom of this. I really hope that fork helps.


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## Archie Sturmer (Dec 2, 2018)

We have seen E.C. Simmons bikes with the round chain stays (rear forks) also; (those may be Shelby?).
It almost makes it more difficult to figure out who built a specific bike and when, if the question is expanded to who made bikes for the retailer that sold them.  But when looking for clues, any clue, we may be forced to follow such paths.
For another St. Louis manufacturer, I had seen a clue that for earlier bikes/parts, FOB (shipping charges) was from Chicago IL, and later from Westfield MA, suggesting (to me) a switch from Schwinn to Westfield suppliers.
The catalog p.3104 in above post looks to have a chain ring which I have seen described as Shelby.  Who made the earlier (1910-) Simmons bikes?

The 4-heart chain rings may be another clue, (for bikes that may still have them).
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/and-what-about-this-chainwheel.122327/#post-817387 Hyslop?
The sprocket compilation thread indicates H.P. Snyder or D.P. Harris, (but didn't Snyder also absorb some Indiana manufacturers).
Others have posted that they have seen such sprockets that just happened to be found on Schwinn bikes.


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## Lux Low (Dec 2, 2018)

I have had Simmons bikes with hyslop chain ring. I would be suspect that Hyslop is a badge name not a manufacturer. and it would be a long stretch for a St. Louis Base hardware store to draw product from across boarders and suspect the bikes were going to Canada from the US or parts used came from jobbers. 

I Do  Think the fork above that looks to be a Pope or DP Harris style flat crown fork with the big built in truss support in the crown to be another EC Simmons Manufacturer Clue or trait.


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## Late To The Party (May 27, 2022)

I am pretty sure I have the same frame as you @Lux Low .  Definitely Snyder/Harris. I have started a build thread here:  https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/snyder-built-american-flyer-archbar-truss-frame-build.209143/    Do you know the serial number?


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