# Enclosed chain guard removal



## John Ebert (Jun 5, 2018)

I have been trying to remove the enclosed chain guard on my 53 Churchill De-Lux.  That has been an interesting endeavor.  The crank had been rubbing the chain guard so I figured it would be best to remove the chain guard and tweak the crank arm just a little.  To do this the guard has to be removed and I hadn't a clue.
So, yesterday I posted a plea for help in the Middleweight forum.  I was advised that I might get more help if I posted this on the lightweight forum.  

This AM I got up early and started to look at Abebooks.com to see if there might be some books on the subject. Did find 3 which may or may not be of any help.  Then I went into the shop to look at it again.  
I ran a utility knife along the seam and discovered that it was soldered. OK, that explains a lot.   
Used my butane torch to heat the seam and melt the solder.  Using the utility knife and torch to remove the solder and I'm about 3/4 around the seam.  
All I can say is WOW!  this is one time consuming operation. For me to repair and for Churchill / Hercules to build. The chain wheel, chain have to be inplace before it is soldered shut and then painted.  The crank / chain wheel has never been serviced and the chain was pretty much a lump of rust.  Not sure I'm up for trying to solder this all back together when I get through address the issues I have had.

Any help or advise you can offer me?

Thanks

John in Texas


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## bulldog1935 (Jun 5, 2018)

@SirMike1983 and maybe my buddy Tad @petritl will have some ides for you - check back


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## juvela (Jun 5, 2018)

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Sounds like you may be going at it the wrong way round.

The round shield around the head of the crank arm is a friction/interference fit against the body of the chainguard.  You should be able to pop it off with a screwdriver blade or similar.  Opening should be large enough to remove crank arm with chainwheel.

Back face of guard may be held in place by the fixed bottom bracket cup.

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## petritl (Jun 5, 2018)

Correct, the pie plate behind the crank arm pops off like a paint can lid. The plate will come off with the crank set in place. 

Tad


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## SirMike1983 (Jun 5, 2018)

The pie plate snaps in and out, but it does take a fair amount of force to remove it and snap it back in. If it is particularly stubborn, I'd warm it with a hair dryer or a light duty heat gun until warm to the touch, then run a little penetrating oil into the joint. This is only used on the more stubborn plates that have rusted shut.  A flame or torch should not be required at all. In fact, the heat won't even be enough to damage the paint.

I'm a little confused by the description. Are you saying someone soldered the pie plate shut, or are you trying to unsolder the two halves of the chain case in full (going all the way around)?  Those methods should not be necessary.


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## dnc1 (Jun 6, 2018)

They are typically designed to be removed without unsoldering anything. I feel you may have missed a point where you can easily dismantle it.
Even in the '50s British manufacturers' wouldn't have been so wilfully bloody minded!


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## John Ebert (Jun 6, 2018)

dnc1 said:


> They are typically designed to be removed without unsoldering anything. I feel you may have missed a point where you can easily dismantle it.
> Even in the '50s British manufacturers' wouldn't have been so wilfully bloody minded!



I will have to go out and look at the chain guard. I should have looked at the pie plate and checked to see if it had any seams. As of now I have unsoldered it and it is off, so it looks like I have gone the long way around in getting the chain guard off.  No matter what I do now I will have to service the crank.  
I looked at the pie plate and yes it does look like it should be removable but right now it is rusted in place.  I am soaking it in Vaporust to remove the rust.  That stuff works great.  I did notice that even with the removable pie plate if you ever wanted to take the chain guard off it would have to be unsoldered because the frame passes through the center of the guard.  I would have loved to be two bar stools down from the guys when they dreamed this up.


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## John Ebert (Jun 6, 2018)

I forgot to thank you all for your insight.  I'm new to working on bicycles 
But having older British motorcycles I do have lots of CEI taps and dies, and wrenches.

John in Texas


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## TR6SC (Jun 6, 2018)

John Ebert said:


> I forgot to thank you all for your insight.  I'm new to working on bicycles
> But having older British motorcycles I do have lots of CEI taps and dies, and wrenches.
> 
> John in Texas



Love the Brit stuff. Were those Nortons we were peeking at? Keep us posted with your progress.


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## John Ebert (Jun 7, 2018)

TR6SC said:


> Love the Brit stuff. Were those Nortons we were peeking at? Keep us posted with your progress.



Yes, I have 5 Nortons, 1 AJS, 1 Matchless and a Suzuki V-Strom.  I tell my wife it's a sickness.


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## RidgeWalker (Jun 8, 2018)

Do you have a proper "cotter press" to remove the cotter pins?  That will be a key tool for you to acquire.
Something like this: https://www.parktool.com/product/crank-cotter-remover-cr-2


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## slowride (Jun 8, 2018)

As park tool no longer makes their press and used ones are scarce , here is a high quality specially made tool that others speak highly of http://bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/index.html

Alternatively you could modify a motorcycle chain removal tool.  I followed these directions and have pressed out cotter pins from 5 bikes without any issues 
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/731167-16-cotter-press.html

Maybe you wouldn't mind if I asked some advice from you about British motorcycle hobby? I don't have one but I think I'm coming down with something!


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## TR6SC (Jun 8, 2018)

And then there's a c-clamp and a socket from your toolkit. Leave the nut on the threads to allow a flat surface to push against. The socket goes over the unthreaded end of the cotter. Installation is a simple reversal of the position of the socket, and push it in. Grease should be used on the pin. The spindle and crank should be clean and dry.


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## John Ebert (Jun 9, 2018)

RidgeWalker said:


> Do you have a proper "cotter press" to remove the cotter pins?  That will be a key tool for you to acquire.
> Something like this: https://www.parktool.com/product/crank-cotter-remover-cr-2



I used a C-clamp and a socket to get mine off.  That, a bit of heat and penetrating oil and it was apart.  I have serviced the crank and re-installed it.  I used a hook wrench tool used for adjusting shocks on motorcycles to tighten the lock nut on the crank.  Cool, a cross over tool.


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## John Ebert (Jun 9, 2018)

slowride said:


> As park tool no longer makes their press and used ones are scarce , here is a high quality specially made tool that others speak highly of http://bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/index.html
> 
> Alternatively you could modify a motorcycle chain removal tool.  I followed these directions and have pressed out cotter pins from 5 bikes without any issues
> https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/731167-16-cotter-press.html
> ...




Ask away.  I love talking Classic and Vintage British motorcycles.  
John in Texas


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