# What do you think?



## Newtobikes (Oct 5, 2012)

Hello fellow bike enthusiasts. I'm a new bike enthusiast and I've decided that I would like to own a '49-'59 Phantom. Recently, I've come across an original '59 for sale. The only pics I have are from the owner. From what I can tell, it does seem to include many/most of the original parts, including the vinyl seat, though it is rusty and does need a lot of work. What do think of this bike at a price of $800.00? Thanks for all your help?


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## rebirthbikes (Oct 5, 2012)

*Well my 2 cents...*



Newtobikes said:


> Hello fellow bike enthusiasts. I'm a new bike enthusiast and I've decided that I would like to own a '49-'59 Phantom. Recently, I've come across an original '59 for sale. The only pics I have are from the owner. From what I can tell, it does seem to include many/most of the original parts, including the vinyl seat, though it is rusty and does need a lot of work. What do think of this bike at a price of $800.00? Thanks for all your help?View attachment 68433View attachment 68429
> View attachment 68428View attachment 68430View attachment 68431View attachment 68434




It seems to have all the all hard to find parts, except the rear fender should be duck tailed and wider, the chain ring looks wrong, the pedals aren't right either, but the front light works, at least it looks like it's on in the first photo. I would check to see if those are Schwinn S-2 rims. (It should be stamped into the rim about 2-3 inches behind the valve hole)
If those are S-2's and it comes with a tank. It looks like it has the razor stem and it's hard to tell from the photos, but all the Chrome seems to be in pretty nice condition. All that being said, I think, and this is just my opinion, that $800 is a little much. It will probably cost 60-100 for the rear fender. If those aren't S-2 rims your looking at another 100-200 and the chain ring will run about 30-50 and the pedals are up quite often on FeePay, they usually sell for about 40-80 dependent upon condition. I would look into those things first and if the rims are right, I'd offer him about $550-$650. That also, depends on how much elbow grease your willing to put into it. However, if your just looking to own a Phantom and ride it around town, and get a lot of attention (and you will, people love seeing old ballooners on the road) then I say counter offer him and bring up the negatives and then barter with him. The choice is yours at the end of the day.

hope this helps,
judd

oh and check to see if the rear tail light works as well!!!


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## Newtobikes (Oct 5, 2012)

Hello Judd. Thanks for taking the time to give me a little advice/guidance. I appreciate that. I'm in uncharted waters here! The rims *are* S-2 tubular rims however the tires are really cracked black wall Typhoons. The chrome really isn't that nice;the pics are deceiving. The front light *does not*work and I think the rear is a reproduction, but I don't know if it works. What do you mean about the chain ring not being right, do you mean the chain itself?? What do you mean by the razor stem, the handlebar support? I was able to enlarge a rear pic of the bike to more clearly show the rear fender.

 Thanks, Peter


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## Gary Mc (Oct 5, 2012)

Chain ring is the large sprocket at the crank/pedal assembly.  If you are new to this, Schwinn chrome often cleans up really nice unless you see it flaking off which does not appear to be the case here.  It just takes proper procedures & lots of elbow grease.  Many posts here on those processes but I use a distilled white vinegar bath checking hourly following up with either 00 bronze (best) or 00 steel wool.  Razor stem is handlebars stem.


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## daved66 (Oct 5, 2012)

i would go for it, make an offer like the others say, and settle in the middle.  It will be a fun bike for you to take apart, clean, and regrease.
it is fairly simple work, except the back hub may be tricky if you have not done one before.

clean the frame and chrome up, and you will have a great looking bike to enjoy


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## rebirthbikes (Oct 5, 2012)

*Photos of Parts...*

Hey Peter,

So I grabbed some images from the net of a Phantom complete and highlighted the chain ring and rear fender. I also grabbed you a photo of a razor stem and a Phantom chain ring. In all honesty though, on my search for a 59 Phantom, it seems Schwinn changed their styling of the chain rings and went with the clover chain ring, which is what is on your bike. As for cleaning it up, the chrome that is, Gary is right and rather proficient at cleaning his bikes. Just follow one of his threads in the project section and you'll see what I mean. I use the same methods as he does, but I use 0000 Steel wool instead. Schwinn had great chrome on their bikes, with the exception of the truss rods. Not sure why that is, but the truss rods were not chromed well at all. As for the taillight being a repro... most them out there are. No biggie. Personally, I think they work better than the originals. Also, unless the chrome is flaking off, you can definitely save it with some elbow grease, which in turn, will make you appreciate the bicycle that much more when you ride it. As for the tires... no biggie. You can buy white walls, black walls and just about any color of 26 x 2.125 tires anywhere these days and they're not expensive. I just bought brick pattern cream, clay red and white walls from a guy on the Rat Rod site for $38 a set with tubes included. Hell of a deal!!! Like I said the choice is yours on the bicycle, but half the fun is the barter system. At least it is to me. Counter offer him and see where it goes. However, if your strictly looking for resale value, I don't recommend it. You'll probably never make your money back or just barely break even. BUT... if you want to ride her around and get some hoots and hollars... BY ALL MEANS GO FOR IT. For your first bicycling adventure, you couldn't pick a better Schwinn. After all, the Phantom was Schwinn's flagship bicycle. (Although, I prefer the Panthers, that just my taste though, and I have a "thing" for Straightbar bicycle's)

Anyways, here's the photo to better explain what I was talking about in my first post... I hope these help!!!









first photo is of a Phantom with the highlighted areas in blue
second photo is of a Phantom chain ring
third photo is of the razor stem

Sorry for the quality, the photos are from the net.


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## schwinnja (Oct 5, 2012)

*'59 phantom*



rebirthbikes said:


> It seems to have all the all hard to find parts, except the rear fender should be duck tailed and wider, the chain ring looks wrong, the pedals aren't right either, but the front light works, at least it looks like it's on in the first photo. I would check to see if those are Schwinn S-2 rims. (It should be stamped into the rim about 2-3 inches behind the valve hole)
> hope this helps,
> judd
> 
> oh and check to see if the rear tail light works as well!!!





Bike appears to be correct for a '59.
For '59 Phantoms came with the rubber covered seat, bow pedals, and the four hole
"clover" sprocket, and the different chainguard graphics.  
The razor stem was also no longer available from the factory in '59;
a different two AS bolt stem was used.
Hard to tell from your pictures but I believe the rear fender is correct. 
To say for sure, a picture of the rear fender taken from the side would tell.


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## rhenning (Oct 5, 2012)

I would agree to all of the above changes in later Phantoms.  My 1958 has all of them except the different logo on the chain guard.  The 1959s may not be the best loved but probably are the rarest Phantoms out there.  Roger


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## greenephantom (Oct 5, 2012)

Seems like a solid example, very complete and correct.  As others have said, $800 does seem a bit high.  Others have paid more for less, so if the seller doesn't budge from his price $800 isn't an awful price.  And if it's a local bike, that's like a $100 bonus (if you're trying to rationalize buying it) for not having to ship it.

This would be an ideal bike to clean up, regrease, and ride around.  Personally I would not repaint, that would be an expensive way to make the bike worth less.

Lots of people enter the hobby with a basket case or a common model, which are great ways to spend a lot of money and not end up with much.  Phantom is a good place to start if you have that sort of money knocking around.  It's a perpetually popular model.

Cheers, Geoff


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## Newtobikes (Oct 5, 2012)

Wow, the outpouring of feedback from the guys on this forum is amazing and well appreciated! Thanks a lot guys. There's one other thing that I failed to mention. I'm not sure what its exactly called, but the little 3" tab connected to the rear hub had "Bendix Mexico" engraved on it. I assume it isn't original and changed along the way.  Did Schwinn put a Mexican piece on their bikes??? I doubt it, right?

Thanks again for everything. Peter


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## GTs58 (Oct 5, 2012)

Newtobikes said:


> Did Schwinn put a Mexican piece on their bikes??? I doubt it, right?
> 
> Thanks again for everything. Peter




Yep, they sure did. But not on the Phantoms. I believe that happened in the later 70's.


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## Larmo63 (Oct 5, 2012)

Roger is right about the later ones being more rare. It's funny, you would

think that the earlier ones would be all gone, but I think it belies the fact

of how popular these bikes were in the early 50's and how many Schwinn

was able to produce.


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## greenephantom (Oct 6, 2012)

I believe the piece you're talking about is the brake arm.  These are interchangable on Bendix hubs.  So it's possible that it's an original hub that a later brake arm was switched onto.  The correct '59 Bendix hub will have a smooth shell in chrome.  1960s used a chrome shell with a single red indented stripe.  1970s hubs used a non-chrome shell with multiple grooves in it.  If it's a 1970s era hub, then that's a bargaining chip, and you should also check the rims.

Check where the rims are stamped.  For '59 they should be stamped down the center in line with the spoke holes. And there should be two lines of knurling (hash marks).

Cheers, Geoff


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## daved66 (Oct 6, 2012)

schwinn did use bendix mexico brake arms, but i believe that they used those in the early 1970's.  But i could be wrong on the year.


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