# help dating this pope highwheel?



## thehugheseum (Sep 19, 2012)

this is my winter bicycle project........i dont really know much about them,anyone feel up to helping me out?


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## bike (Sep 19, 2012)

*not certain*

but I do think it is an early one from the radial spokes and location of the nameplate- might be a good idea to investigate whether it should be restored or left alone- not that many og bikes out there- hard to tell from your pix.


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## thehugheseum (Sep 19, 2012)

the extent of my restoration would only be making it complete,i will probably make it able to be ridden but absolutely no paintwork..........i hate restored antiques


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## walter branche (Sep 19, 2012)

*1880 -1882 columbia standard*

This is the most basic model of columbia ordinary ,, called a standard .   If its a 50 inch,it has a historical collector interest,,. 50 inch columbia standard with paralle bearings-first bicycle across america ,,Thomas  Stevens 1884 ,103 days ,san fran to boston  ..Dave Toppin will pin down the year ,,if you have a serial number ..walter branche


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## thehugheseum (Sep 19, 2012)

neat,where would i look for a number stamped?


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## thehugheseum (Sep 19, 2012)

my bike definately does look like those standards,theres even faint remnants of the pinstriping in the same fashion


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## walter branche (Sep 19, 2012)

*looking for numbers*

check where the head meets the front end ,look at the top,it should be stamped, yes, it is a standard columbia .i forgot when the spokes came without those locknuts /later years.... yours is the early example ,,. sometimes there is another nameplate hanging down from the center of the front end  facing the rider ,, walter branche


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## thehugheseum (Sep 19, 2012)

very neat,love all the info.......i was at a antique bike swap recently and when i explained that hub with adjusters and the round footpeg,small side mounted badge they seemed pretty puzzled...........these guys were saying it was probably some hoopty mixed up bike.............but i had a hard time believing it because the bike just seems too "right"..............the bikes i saw there had the rectangle foot steps and pinned spoke set ups

   just went out and looked for number stamping anywhere and i didnt come up with anything..........i suppose it might help if i knew what and where to look but im as green as they come

















obvious to me problems,left handlebar end broke off,spoke issues,tires,MISSING PEDAL!................after the hard stuff is over the plan is to clean up the finish to show some of what little pinstripe is still visible then just preserve and ride............i see the brake is missing but brakes are for sissies anyway..............luckily im well versed in no brakes on 2 wheeled machines...............oh yeah and i measured the rim from outer to outer.....50 inches


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## pelletman (Sep 19, 2012)

*1882 Columbia Standard*

This took some catalog study...

Radial spokes do not mean early or late, they were used in ALL the years of production of highwheels.  The bike is an 1882 Columbia Standard they made Standards until 88.  80 and 81 would have different bearings. 83 would have a U rim. The nutted spokes and v rims on 48 /50" and above (depending on year)  were used until 83 they were used all years on the smaller 48 and under bikes.  You have plain bearings which means it will never be a very good riding bike.  I would have Craig Allen make spokes and pedal.  I have saddle pattern on photobucket, rub it down with waxoyl for the patina-ed look.  Brake parts can be made by Craig, Ed Lee for grips or maybe Walter has a pair, should be 7/16-14 thread.  Serial number under rear of front fork and on top edge of neck I think, I would REALLY like to know it.

The pedal is not correct, it is Columbia, but from an early Expert I think.  Where are you located?


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## thehugheseum (Sep 19, 2012)

great news! thank you for the help,i will do my best to get you the number should i find it..........bummer on the plain bearings......should i just scrap it? only joking in case sarcasm doesnt make it over the internerd..............im out in oregon...........im not planning to ride it cross country or anything,im betting we have better riding surfaces in todays paved and concrete society...............so really if it rides like crap thats probably better for my time travel experience........really its cheating

    i love the bike and i had only even mentioned i wanted a highwheel maybe a month or so before it fell in my lap,i was and am elated.............i was figuring i would end up with something much less authentic


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## pelletman (Sep 19, 2012)

You're welcome, and just so you know, they get worse!


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## thehugheseum (Sep 19, 2012)

nice........i appreciate all the help...........another question since it sounds like your a chum who knows a great deal more than me........what are guys doing about tires? i have a pretty sweet idea already but im really curious what others have done....... were the tires of 82 white black red? about how hard do we figure the originals were?


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## pelletman (Sep 19, 2012)

Red and you can buy for about 100 bucks, but you gotta have a machine to put them on


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## thehugheseum (Sep 19, 2012)

very nice! do you have the contacts for the red tires? what machine do i need?  so were tires of the ordinary years red or columbia standards particularly?


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## pelletman (Sep 19, 2012)

Yes, when the time comes that you need tire.  You need a tire machine designed to put it on. Most were red, but black and gray were used too

http://www.bikeroute.com/HiWheelers/HowMountTire.php


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## thehugheseum (Sep 19, 2012)

dang! that was interesting!................i may try my first idea and see what happens,i do like that red color,very cool stuff!


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## pelletman (Sep 20, 2012)

What is your idea?  Much has been tried before


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## thehugheseum (Sep 20, 2012)

well i have a chum with an above average very large machine shop............i have also dragged him into my antique motorcycle/bicycle fetish..........(he already has some fire breathing "monsters" and hes only begun collecting) he looked at the wheel and thinks his pump seal distributer can get us a "tire" that will fit the rims................hes pretty much a genius and thinks we can get that to work

    what do you think? what did the original manufacturer do?  i noticed the bikes at the last swap all had that blank space where the wire was joined.............is that acceptable? it seems like it would ride with a bump like this


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## pelletman (Sep 20, 2012)

I don't think the O Ring idea works well, they are way too soft.  Tire is 85 durometer or so.   There should be no space if the tire is put on correctly, lots of people don't use enough extra rubber.  You need 2" extra for every 10" of diameter


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## thehugheseum (Sep 20, 2012)

thanks for the input,so i wasnt aware all the seals/orings were the same durometer..............have you ever seen this idea before? im just trying to learn and get my bike back on the road for summer post office runs


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## pelletman (Sep 20, 2012)

I have seen people talk about it.  I have never tried personally and I wouldn't waste my time doing it


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## thehugheseum (Sep 20, 2012)

okay,well i guess i will cross that bridge when i get there.................so were the factory original tires the style with the welded internat wire? is that what replacements were/are?  thanks so much for your input


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## pelletman (Sep 20, 2012)

No and yes.


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## thehugheseum (Sep 20, 2012)

so the original was a seamless tire type thing? sorry,im just trying to learn


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## walter branche (Sep 20, 2012)

*danger*

If you place the tires ,like we have been doing for many years.. There will not be a problem .. If you try to be creative and take another path,, you are setting yourself up for some painfull injuries. There are many ways to pull the wire and get it tight ,, ..Your safety depends on using the proper material ..Usually the experiments and the lazy ,creative solo thinkers,projects end in disaster.When the tire comes loose there is no time for recovery,you will do a face plant, header,cropper =--there are many terms associated with this action..Do it RIGHT ,and ride safe -..There might be someone in your area who can place the tires for you ,..walter branche cycle safety first


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## pelletman (Sep 20, 2012)

The originals were molded in the size they needed for each bike.  Like an O Ring. Walter is right.  No more tire questions..  I have a life too!


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## Andrew Gorman (Sep 20, 2012)

The O-ring style tires were glued/cemented in place and had a bad habit of rolling off the rims.  They had a last gasp as "cushion tires" for safeties and had the same problem, plus they weighed 4 or 5 pounds apiece.  Wired-on cushion tires were one solution, but pneumatic tires made cycling a lot more pleasant and reliable.


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## Andrew Gorman (Sep 20, 2012)

If you have tire questions, here is a good start:
http://books.google.com/books?id=iT10lNLC7fYC
A good history of tires in general and bicycle tires in particular from 1918.


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## okozzy (Sep 20, 2012)

*How to contact?*

Don't want to highjack this thread, but do you have contact information for all the folks you listed  below?

Craig     ---->>>brakes/spokes/pedals parts
Ed Lee   ----->>>grips

thanks!




pelletman said:


> This took some catalog study...
> 
> Radial spokes do not mean early or late, they were used in ALL the years of production of highwheels.  The bike is an 1882 Columbia Standard they made Standards until 88.  80 and 81 would have different bearings. 83 would have a U rim. The nutted spokes and v rims on 48 /50" and above (depending on year)  were used until 83 they were used all years on the smaller 48 and under bikes.  You have plain bearings which means it will never be a very good riding bike.  I would have Craig Allen make spokes and pedal.  I have saddle pattern on photobucket, rub it down with waxoyl for the patina-ed look.  Brake parts can be made by Craig, Ed Lee for grips or maybe Walter has a pair, should be 7/16-14 thread.  Serial number under rear of front fork and on top edge of neck I think, I would REALLY like to know it.
> 
> The pedal is not correct, it is Columbia, but from an early Expert I think.  Where are you located?


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## walter branche (Sep 20, 2012)

*tires with 3,400 miles*






Here is a set of tires I mounted ,and were ridden across america ,san fran to boston .If you can read the numbers the front tire went around 1,382,589 times-the rear is 3 times that amount . do it right and ride safe .The rolling resistance = the proper tire installation and tire material, makes all the difference in the world ,.. My tires are put on ,tight,,they ring or vibrate when you thump them .. The front tire was 1 inch,the rear 3/4----walter branche


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## pelletman (Sep 22, 2012)

*Serial number locations for the Standard Columbia*



thehugheseum said:


> neat,where would i look for a number stamped?


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