# What Classic Bicycle Brand Are You Loyal Too?



## American Vintage Bicycle Supply (Nov 26, 2013)

What Classic Bicycle Brand Do You Find Yourself Being Loyal Too?
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I tend to lean toward the Colsons. Have a few Schwinns  but who doesn't...

Wish I had more Shelbys. Really like all their bikes.


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## bricycle (Nov 26, 2013)

Sears and Roebuck cycles; Chiefs, Jenkin Napoleon's, Elgins, Elgin King, Acme King...etc!


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## Talewinds (Nov 26, 2013)

I prefer to work on and refurbish Schwinns. The quality of materials, chrome, paint, steel stampings is just so superior to everybody else, makes a refurb turn out so much better.

I also like Huffmans and Murray built bikes, Elgin, Mercury, etc.


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## fordmike65 (Nov 26, 2013)

Prewar Colsons!! Especially 36-37


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## Euphman06 (Nov 26, 2013)

I've come across Schwinn's and BFG Schwinn's the most in my area. I do like the quality, but I'm not completely sold on their quality of paint judging by the ones I had and how well it cleaned up. I did pick up a '46-'47 BFG that has real nice paint but it was hiding under a layer of grime that preserved it. I guess I'm most loyal to Schwinn because of the popularity of them, but I do wish I could come across some other brands more frequantly (mainly Elgins).


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Nov 26, 2013)

Guess.......... Its all in the name


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## fordmike65 (Nov 26, 2013)

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> Guess.......... Its all in the name




Micargi?


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## Talewinds (Nov 26, 2013)

Euphman06 said:


> ...but I do wish I could come across some other brands more frequantly (mainly Elgins).




^This. I never EVER find Colsons in my area.


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## Handyman (Nov 26, 2013)

Well……………………………………..easy question……………………………………Iver Johnson’s of course!


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## Larmo63 (Nov 26, 2013)

~~~~~~~~~~~~Racycle~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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## catfish (Nov 26, 2013)

Columbia / Pope / Westfield MFG.


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## Iverider (Nov 26, 2013)

Iver Johnson. The build quality of the frame is superb and the forged parts associated with it are also of excellent quality! The Arch truss is my main squeeze. Nothing more attractive in my opinion, but all of them hold my interest!


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## Wcben (Nov 26, 2013)

Larmo63 said:


> ~~~~~~~~~~~~Racycle~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




I couldn't have said it better!


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## bricycle (Nov 26, 2013)

Wcben said:


> I couldn't have said it better!




...Ra$ycle is more like it....lol!!!


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## SirMike1983 (Nov 26, 2013)

Raleigh, Schwinn, and Columbia- my three main brands.

Schwinn and Columbia are sentimental choices. They were American-made and generally well-built. The Schwinns get more hype, but the Columbias are every bit as well-built. The Columbias actually had some advantages and improved designs. The double Y rear fork design on their post-war straight bars comes to mind. The Schwinn double curve bar prewar roadster, at least in my book, is the perfect cruiser frame. For the lightweights, I really love the fillet brazed Schwinn New Worlds and Superiors. There's nothing like a smooth, hand built, American frame for a lightweight. I like Schwinn and Columbia for those reasons.

Raleigh is the practical choice. The British built a better bicycle than we did, and that's coming from someone who grew up within minutes of the Torrington Company factory, New Departure, and not far from the Columbia factory in Westfield. The Raleigh Sports is a prime example. The frame geometry is spot-on, and the features well-thought for a utility bicycle. The British were using them since the 1930s, but in the US they were considered "forward looking" well into the 1960s. When Schwinn was marketing "English style" bikes as a"new" and high performance thing in the '50s and '60s, the British had already been building them and doing it well for 20-30 years. I am loyal to Raleigh because they built a solid, dependable bicycle for adults. 

Schwinn tried to do it with their lightweights in the '30s and '40s but didn't have a whole lot of luck at market. The US got hooked on the automobile and so the great, innovative designs in US bikes from 1890-1920 dried up and the US bicycle industry fell behind Britain. I think bikes like the Sears Chief with its 3 speed hub and medium-width tires was a design in the right direction. With more modern, clincher tires it would have actually be a decent utility cycle. As much as people love the ballooners of the 1930s (I love them as well) from a functionality standpoint, they actually were a step backward from some of the earlier designs for an adult wanting a bicycle. But that's another can of worms I guess.


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## Handyman (Nov 26, 2013)

Krautwaggen said:


> Iver Johnson. The build quality of the frame is superb and the forged parts associated with it are also of excellent quality! The Arch truss is my main squeeze. Nothing more attractive in my opinion, but all of them hold my interest!




Brian, That is one awsome Fall shot of your Iver..................................do you mind if I share it? Pete in Fitchburg


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## jd56 (Nov 26, 2013)

Whatever fits in the shop....no seriously, I am partial to anything with a Tanklight.....DUH. But, have fallen in love with the Schwinn Middleweight and Heavyweight, they ride so much nicer than the others brands. 
But, the draw to own each of all manufacturers has changed my life.


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## Flat Tire (Nov 26, 2013)

*Huffman*

Huffman-Huffman-Huffman-


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## Iverider (Nov 26, 2013)

Handyman said:


> Brian, That is one awsome Fall shot of your Iver..................................do you mind if I share it? Pete in Fitchburg




Share it at will! Just don't sell it 

Scott K gave me the front fender and cranks!


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## bricycle (Nov 26, 2013)

Krautwaggen said:


> Share it at will! Just don't sell it
> 
> Scott K gave me the front fender and cranks!




...how much for the poison ivy???


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## Iverider (Nov 26, 2013)

I'm parting it out. 

Leaves are $4
Stems $2
Oil $6

All prices are for 1 gram. Shipping not included. Paypal buyers please add 100% for fees and the usual BS.


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## kngtmat (Nov 26, 2013)

I love Murray bicycles and Huffy is my other favorite brand. It's a shame that Murray is gone as a brand of bicycles and that Huffy is no longer made in the US.

Walmart sells Murray lawnmowers since the name came back not long ago.


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## bikecrazy (Nov 26, 2013)

Everything Schwinn, but I do have a sweet spot for Campy equipped Italian road bikes.


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## Oldnut (Nov 26, 2013)

*Classic bikes*



Flat Tire said:


> Huffman-Huffman-Huffman-




Huffman,Davis,any teens motobikes


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## cyclingday (Nov 26, 2013)

Schhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhwinn


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## dougfisk (Nov 26, 2013)

Judging by the contents of my garage, *everything *except Snyder built...


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## rollfaster (Nov 26, 2013)

*It's hard to choose*

I love schwinns, as I agree with tale winds about the quality and care that was taken in making these bikes.also working on schwinns just seems to be easy and fun.i do love elgins, monarks,Shelbys etc.i focus on prewar and early postwar ballooners as I thing you all know already.


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## bikewhorder (Nov 26, 2013)

I'm not sure Elgin counts since they were made by several manufactures, I was thinking they would be my first choice but seeing the other answers has left me unable to decide.  I have a true love of Ivers for their defiant independent approach to making bikes, Huffman made some of the best looking bikes and I love Colsons art Deco style. The top of the line prewar Columbia balloon tired bikes are some of my favorites, the early Meads are just gorgeous (I know they came from several manufactures as well). I don't get too excited about the HP Snyder bikes but the Roadmaster Supreme is one of the coolest bikes out there.   Oh and Monark SilverKings! Those are so cool.  The 26x is way up near the top of my wish list.  So I can't decide, I'm glad I have room for all of them.


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## slick (Nov 26, 2013)

SHELBY!!! CWC, and Colsons. These are the most comfortable for me to ride and i love the styling of them as well.

What i have noticed is that we don't have any Rollfast guys on here? The seem to be the underdog?


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## Dan the bike man (Nov 26, 2013)

Indian! They are very nice bikes! That's mine in my profile pic.


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## bikewhorder (Nov 26, 2013)

slick said:


> What i have noticed is that we don't have any Rollfast guys on here? The seem to be the underdog?




I honestly can't think of a single Rollfast badged bike that I actually want to own. Seriously what's the coolest bike Rollfast ever made? The ZEP?


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## Sped Man (Nov 26, 2013)

I am loyal to none. I find that each had their ups and downs. Some were very creative in certain years and asleep in other years.


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## prewarbikes4sale (Nov 26, 2013)

*Not really a Rollfast guy*



bikewhorder said:


> I honestly can't think of a single Rollfast badged bike that I actually want to own. Seriously what's the coolest bike Rollfast ever made? The ZEP?




But.....Pretty cool


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## cyclingday (Nov 26, 2013)

slick said:


> What i have noticed is that we don't have any Rollfast guys on here? The seem to be the underdog?




 That's because Rollfast was a notch below Shelby in the styling department.


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## fordmike65 (Nov 26, 2013)

cyclingday said:


> That's because Rollfast was a notch below Shelby in the styling department.





Ahem! Well, I've been cheating on my Colsons with a Rollfast I met recently...


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## 1959firearrow (Nov 26, 2013)

Anything CWC built. Also have a fondness for pre-Raleigh Hercules bikes.


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## rollfaster (Nov 26, 2013)

*Gotta love the zep*



bikewhorder said:


> I honestly can't think of a single Rollfast badged bike that I actually want to own. Seriously what's the coolest bike Rollfast ever made? The ZEP?




Here's my 36 rollfast zep.


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## 37fleetwood (Nov 26, 2013)

*Team Rollfast!*

Rollfast for me all the way! man how can you not love the quality style and fit of a Rollfast!
I wouldn't own anything but a Rollfast!


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## dougfisk (Nov 26, 2013)

cyclingday said:


> That's because Rollfast was a notch below Shelby in the styling department.




Even 3 or 4 notches maybe...


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## dougfisk (Nov 26, 2013)

37fleetwood said:


> Rollfast for me all the way! man how can you not love the quality style and fit of a Rollfast!
> I wouldn't own anything but a Rollfast!...




Odd... that's not the way I remember it...


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## bikewhorder (Nov 26, 2013)

37fleetwood said:


> Rollfast for me all the way! man how can you not love the quality style and fit of a Rollfast!
> I wouldn't own anything but a Rollfast!




Well no surprise there, Hey Scott since you like Rollfasts so much how about I go and pick up this one: http://maine.craigslist.org/atq/4169159896.html for you and we'll trade for one of those cheap a$$ Huffy's you also seem to be fond of.


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## cyclingday (Nov 26, 2013)

37fleetwood said:


> Rollfast for me all the way! man how can you not love the quality style and fit of a Rollfast!
> I wouldn't own anything but a Rollfast!
> 
> NEWSFLASH!
> ...


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## dougfisk (Nov 26, 2013)

bikewhorder said:


> Well no surprise there, Hey Scott since you like Rollfasts so much how about I go and pick up this one: http://maine.craigslist.org/atq/4169159896.html for you and we'll trade for one of those cheap a$$ Huffy's you also seem to be fond of.





Cheap at twice the price... :eek:


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## 37fleetwood (Nov 26, 2013)

bikewhorder said:


> Well no surprise there, Hey Scott since you like Rollfasts so much how about I go and pick up this one: http://maine.craigslist.org/atq/4169159896.html for you and we'll trade for one of those cheap a$$ Huffy's you also seem to be fond of.




you laugh but I'd ride that!


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Nov 26, 2013)

37fleetwood said:


> you laugh but I'd ride that!




Speaking of ridding things,... Howd your wal mart date finding night go?
View attachment 124730


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## dougfisk (Nov 26, 2013)

37fleetwood said:


> you laugh but I'd ride that!




Scott... I fear you are over-reaching.  Yes; you single-handedly raised Huffy from a laughing stock to a respected and coveted brand... but this... *this* is beyond even your capacity... I beg of you... *do not go there*...


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## bikewhorder (Nov 26, 2013)

dougfisk said:


> Scott... I fear you are over-reaching.  Yes; you single-handedly raised Huffy from a laughing stock to a respected and coveted brand... but this... *this* is beyond even your capacity... I beg of you... *do not go there*...




Wait I'm lost now, are we talking about the Rollfast or the Walmaritian?


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Nov 26, 2013)

bikewhorder said:


> Wait I'm lost now, are we talking about the Rollfast or the Walmaritan?




Walyeti........


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## 37fleetwood (Nov 26, 2013)

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> Speaking of ridding things,... Howd your wal mart date finding night go?
> View attachment 124730




I got this on a rollback, it even comes with it's own electric cart so I don't have to push it to the truck.


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## scrubbinrims (Nov 26, 2013)

I am loyal to prewar balloon tire bicycles that are generally regarded as rare...either deluxe models or excellent original paint specimens (but favor colors outside of red, blue, and black).
No single manufacturer has produced enough of a diverse portfolio that I would remain within their lines.
Chris


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## GTs58 (Nov 26, 2013)

Boy, you sure roped a nice one! Do you use a saddle or do you ride er bareback? 





37fleetwood said:


> I got this on a rollback, it even comes with it's own electric cart so I don't have to push it to the truck.


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## Freqman1 (Nov 26, 2013)

I'm not loyal to any particular brand but prefer deluxe, fully equipped, original bikes. Correctly done restored is ok as well. Variety is the spice of life! V/r Shawn


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## bikewhorder (Nov 26, 2013)

So I just did a little research and realized that I made an ignorant comment above (there's a first time for everything).  I had been under the impression that Roadmaster and HP Snyder were related but from what little I just read that's not the case.  I had always lumped Rollfast, Roadmaster, CWC, DP Harris and Hawthorne, together.  Was there ever a connection between all these brands or was I just totally confused.


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## 37fleetwood (Nov 26, 2013)

GTs58 said:


> Boy, you sure roped a nice one! Do you use a saddle or do you ride er bareback?




I was tempted to go straight to the Barbecue stage of the relationship with her, saves time and money! :eek:


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## 37fleetwood (Nov 26, 2013)

bikewhorder said:


> So I just did a little research and realized that I made an ignorant comment above (there's a first time for everything).  I had been under the impression that Roadmaster and HP Snyder were related but from what little I just read that's not the case.  I had always lumped Rollfast, Roadmaster, CWC, DP Harris and Hawthorne, together.  Was there ever a connection between all these brands or was I just totally confused.




I'd just go with "just totally confused".
Snyder and CWC built bikes, Hawthorne and Rollfast bought them, Roadmaster was the CWC house name, Rollfast used almost exclusively Snyder if I remember correctly...


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## dougfisk (Nov 26, 2013)

bikewhorder said:


> So I just did a little research and realized that I made an ignorant comment above (there's a first time for everything).  I had been under the impression that Roadmaster and HP Snyder were related but from what little I just read that's not the case.  I had always lumped Rollfast, Roadmaster, CWC, DP Harris and Hawthorne, together.  Was there ever a connection between all these brands or was I just totally confused.






37fleetwood said:


> I'd just go with "just totally confused".
> Snyder and CWC built bikes, Hawthorne and Rollfast bought them, Roadmaster was the CWC house name, Rollfast used almost exclusively Snyder if I remember correctly...




The purchasing department at Montgomery Wards is to blame for your confusion... Wards sold "Hawthornes" that were built by both CWC and Snyder... In order to retain some brand identity continuity: at Wards request, or at Snyders eager offer, Snyder blatantly copied many CWC designs for Wards.  They are very similar in appearance and differ mainly in minor details.


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## DJ Bill (Nov 26, 2013)

Love Schwinn lightweights of the early 70's, Sting Rays, and my old Columbia and CWC bikes too. Actually, any bicycle with aired up tires is cool, I hate flat tires with the rim strip winding around the frame as you drag the bike to your truck. Doesn't even have to have two wheels, I have a couple of unicycles and a trike too. 

Almost forgot my Dodsun. (Swingbike!cool:



and people of Walmart scare me.


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## bikewhorder (Nov 26, 2013)

dougfisk said:


> The purchasing department at Montgomery Wards is to blame for your confusion... Wards sold "Hawthornes" that were built by both CWC and Snyder... In order to retain some brand identity continuity: at Wards request, or at Snyders eager offer, Snyder blatantly copied many CWC designs for Wards.  They are very similar in appearance and differ mainly in minor details.




That's interesting, but it doesn't change my opinion of them, which can best be summed up with one word- "Meh".


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## slick (Nov 26, 2013)

My Cabe family is AWESOME!!!!!! You boys had me laughing nonstop for a good 4 minutes at all the comments. And to think that a simple Team Rollfast inquiry would bring soooooo many posts and give me soooo much joy!!!!!! 

Go Team Rollfast!! You are only a few notches above Team Huffman but it's better than being dead last with Team Monark.  

Where's all the Monark guys at? And yes, i own a Super Deluxe and it weighs a friggin TON! Great looking while sitting there. Love the train light, cheesegrader rack, and the DEEEEP Fenders but JEEZ!!!! Pedal that puppy for 15 miles and your legs look like an Olympic marathon runner.


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## mike j (Nov 27, 2013)

37fleetwood said:


> I got this on a rollback, it even comes with it's own electric cart so I don't have to push it to the truck.



 Now here's a girl built for a Monark, did they come in lavender?


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## Iverider (Nov 27, 2013)

Maybe we should change the name of thecabe to Nastyfatties.com?


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## Houndog (Nov 27, 2013)

slick said:


> SHELBY!!! CWC, and Colsons. These are the most comfortable for me to ride and i love the styling of them as well.
> 
> What i have noticed is that we don't have any Rollfast guys on here? The seem to be the underdog?




I love my 35 Rollfast..I have AMF,JC Higgins,Western Flyers and Mongoose bikes..
 No preference though..
I do not care for Schwinns though,the oddball wheel size limits tire choice too much for my taste
 I also don't like them because they are so popular and I prefer underdogs ...


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## bikewhorder (Nov 27, 2013)

Krautwaggen said:


> Maybe we should change the name of thecabe to Nastyfatties.com?




I googled that site and it automatically directed me to nastyfatty.com.  I don't recommend venturing over there to others though.


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## blasterracing (Nov 27, 2013)

Shelby!!!!!

Tim Newmeyer
Shelby, Ohio


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## GTs58 (Nov 27, 2013)

bikewhorder said:


> I googled that site and it automatically directed me to nastyfatty.com.  I don't recommend venturing over there to others though.




So you want to hog them all for yourself and not share? I'll share, there's enough here to go around three four times. wwwdotfatbitch.com/    .............LMAO..................


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## 37fleetwood (Nov 27, 2013)

mike j said:


> Now here's a girl built for a Monark, did they come in lavender?




not much in Lavender, but I did find this. wonder if Greg still has it?


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## Rear Facing Drop Out (Nov 28, 2013)

*schwinn, silver king, shelby.....*

Schwinns are easy and a great bike.  I can fix anything on them and have garages full of replacement parts.  I can't see a silver king without looking it over.  My first collectors bike was a silver king and I had s hand in making allot of repop parts back in the 90's.  High end road bikes and track bike too


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## mruiz (Nov 28, 2013)

WOW I leaned something. I did know they made anything other than Schwinn.
Thanx Guys


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## bikewhorder (Nov 28, 2013)

Anybody wanna step up and declare Manton and Smith as their brand of choice?


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## 37fleetwood (Nov 28, 2013)

bikewhorder said:


> Anybody wanna step up and declare Manton and Smith as their brand of choice?




I personally wouldn't own anything but Manton Smith! the best bikes ever made!


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## Hermanator3 (Nov 30, 2013)

*1955?*



37fleetwood said:


> not much in Lavender, but I did find this. wonder if Greg still has it?




Reminds me of the coral, black & white 1955 Dodge.  Or us cool guys in 1955 with our black suits, pink shirts & pink & black ties.


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## 37fleetwood (Nov 30, 2013)

Hermanator3 said:


> Reminds me of the coral, black & white 1955 Dodge.  Or us cool guys in 1955 with our black suits, pink shirts & pink & black ties.




you're dating yourself! my 55 Dodge was turquoise and white...


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## filmonger (Nov 30, 2013)

Anything Raymond Loewy would have liked!


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## schwinnking310 (Dec 30, 2014)

Schwinns only everything else looks like a copy of a Schwinn gone wrong 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Balloonatic (Dec 30, 2014)

For *riding*, I hate to say it, but I have to honest: Schwinns -they ride so nice and solid, just great quality (I'm talking late prewar and early post war Phantoms and Panthers - their deluxe offerings). Even their Krate bikes had mad quality and were sturdy and fun to ride. I never could afford one as a kid, but my younger neighbor down the block would let me ride his Apple Krate, and man, was it a treat. As someone else said above, everybody loves Schwinn but I always rooted for the underdogs; I love me some Monarks & CWC offerings in the 50s... but for pure riding pleasure Schwinns are hard to beat.

HOWEVER; for _*styling*_ it's the Westfield prewar deluxe Elgins: Bluebird, Skylark, Robin... the very best and most beautiful, indulgent and inspired styling for a deco dog like me. If I had to get rid of all other bikes and keep just those three, I could live with that. Thankfully I don't have to and get to oogle my Bowden Spacelander or my hex tube Silver King as well.... but for one brand I'm loyal to? It's Westfield built Elgins all the way.

Rear Facing Drop Out: Did you make any hex tube parts? If so, do you still have any? I tried to PM you but your box is full and won't receive any more msgs.

Thanks!


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## randallace (Dec 31, 2014)

The majority of my bicycles are schwinns and huffy


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## Nickinator (Dec 31, 2014)

Im loyal to elgin, im an elgin boy through and through.

Nick


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## rollfaster (Dec 31, 2014)

Elgins, colsons, cwc bikes,Snyder built bikes, huffman, schwinn. I like them all. Rob.


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## tripple3 (Dec 31, 2014)

*Loyalty is for God and spouse...*

I am not very loyal to anything in particular as I like variety, quality, style and most things I can RIDE. What I really think is this thread needs pics....


Huffman is my best bike I bought. I put out the most cash from my buying and selling bikes to own this Beauty. It is in my house next to this...



Westfield built Adult size 20" frame Syracuse. I have bought this same bike twice now and plan to keep it. I only sold it for "Stupid Money" and traded a great bike to get it back. I love that it is all original 1937 60th Anniversary bike.



I am into riding so Schwinns are up there too. I have this 20" frame C-mod Mead that flies straight and true. I paid good money for this one too; and ride it Often....


I had a Shelby for a little while that I rode a lot. Ugly to most because I wet-sanded it. A lil' lighter than most balloons so I rode it often....


I sold it to make room for Murray of Ohio. I have had more Murray built bikes than anything in my life. Cost comparison is BIG reason and I'l ride anything....


I would like to own a original Colson. I sold mine that was nice but home restored with incorrect parts added. I still want an original CWC bike to ride. Lets Swap some stuff....


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## mickeyc (Dec 31, 2014)

*My faves*









Like many above, Schwinn for quality, Columbia right behind.  Love the "different" looking bikes too, Murray Spaceliner, Astro Flite, etc.  Also my Evans Viscount 700 for the mere fact of its looks and originality.  Favoring the middle weights now as my 73 year old legs don't like pushing the heavy bikes around.
Bikes I own:  Panther III, Columbia Torpedo, Spaceliner, Astro Flite, and a few others.

Mike


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## syclesavage (Dec 31, 2014)

*Favorite Bike....HA*

Guys guy guys the point is being missed here we have to like love and want to keep all of these bikes and keep them together. Liking only one two or three styles it's has to be all styles. Owning this toy as it's been called has a long history in all the hearts of all of us .Think back to when you couldn't leave your mom and dad's side for one minute then there was that one birthday a Christmas or special event the first time of independence seeing that bike you just got and being allowed to go go go and ride like the wind. I sit here and pen this like I'm the kid from a Christmas story wantin a Red Rider BB gun but given all the right situations in life wish I could own and ride them all. Beats havin a 99.00 package store Walmart bike with a pre twisted frame to get me around on .


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## mike j (Dec 31, 2014)

Colson's, CWC's, up front, Snyder's & Elgin's in the rear.


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## Nickinator (Dec 31, 2014)

awe..... Mike whats this i spot? PM sent.

Nick.






mike j said:


> Colson's, CWC's, up front, Snyder's & Elgin's in the rear.


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## Joe Buffardi (Dec 31, 2014)

Most prewar bikes made in the Westfield factory.


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## MantonSmith (Dec 31, 2014)

bikewhorder said:


> Anybody wanna step up and declare Manton and Smith as their brand of choice?



Manton and Smiths are cool too.


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## mike j (Dec 31, 2014)

*Ya mean this ole thang, Nick*



Nickinator said:


> awe..... Mike whats this i spot? PM sent.
> 
> Nick.
> View attachment 188250



 I thought it was one of the old prop bikes from Burning Man, been too embarrassed to post it. Was just using it as a "seat filler" for that Red Apple Rest shot.


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## catfish (Dec 31, 2014)

Why pick just one brand?


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## scrubbinrims (Dec 31, 2014)

I am loyal to all brands between 1933 and 1942, disloyal before and after for the most part...not that I don't like or appreciate outside of my box, but that period embraces the style, quality, and function I am passionate about.
Chris


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