# Arnold schwinn excelsior truss bar dating



## Oldnut

Finally got this up on a stand and started cleaning.what I've come up with is red frame,short white darts,nickel plated fork.this is a odd bike with the lower tube smaller in diameter,and the built in dropstand stops chi town has helped a lot on this bike.anyone have any factory color pictures thanks for any help.


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## hoofhearted

*Teen's Schwinn Excelsior*



Oldnut said:


> thanks for any help.





*Ron ... how about a good shot of that badge ... sure .. it looks like the Excelsior badge of Michigan City, Indiana ... 
but some of us know it's a teen's Schwinn-built .......*

Thank you Ron ..............

...........  patric




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## Oldnut

*Badge shot*

Here's the head badge


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## hoofhearted

*Wha' ... how could dis be a Schwinn ...... ??*



Oldnut said:


> Here's the head badgeView attachment 147509






After fussin' with exotic badges since 1982 ... know how many of these i've seen ??

*JUST THIS ONE !!!!!!!!!*

Aaarrgh ......  thatsa one crazy badge ... what a historical link this provides ... 

Twerkin' .. baby .. twerkin' ........... !!!


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## Oldnut

Oldnut said:


> Finally got this up on a stand and started cleaning.what I've come up with is red frame,short white darts,nickel plated fork.this is a odd bike with the lower tube smaller in diameter,and the built in dropstand stops chi town has helped a lot on this bike.anyone have any factory color pictures thanks for any help.View attachment 147487View attachment 147488View attachment 147489View attachment 147490View attachment 147491




Well got more done today.some body in the past painted everything with flat black paint.the old wd40 and 0000 steel wool worked charms.the forks nickel is decent and found the fenders were red with a gold center with white pinstripes wow wild combo.put a blunt and a Amsterdam tire on it I don't want to paint it options?


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## rustyspoke66

Very nice bike! I have seen this badge on a post war bike before but I am fairly sure it is not original to the bike.


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## hoofhearted

rustyspoke66 said:


> I have seen this badge on a post war bike before but I am fairly sure it is not original to the bike.
> View attachment 147618







*rustyspoke66 ...  peep this badge, again* ........... c'mon, now !!


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## rustyspoke66

My bad! Dang blurry pictures.


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## Balloontyre

*Fork*

Is the fork and crown like this one?
Very cool bike.


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## cyclingday

hoofhearted said:


> After fussin' with exotic badges since 1982 ... know how many of these i've seen ??
> 
> *JUST THIS ONE !!!!!!!!!*
> 
> Aaarrgh ......  thatsa one crazy badge ... what a historical link this provides ...
> 
> Twerkin' .. baby .. twerkin' ........... !!!
> 
> 
> ===============================================================
> ===============================================================




 I've seen three of these badges in a week. Chitown posted a picture of one in the Excelsior thread. I've got one in my display case, and now this one.
 Before that, I had always wondered why my big E badge said Arnold Schwinn & Co. Chicago on it, when it was clearly a Michigan City Indiana headbadge.


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## Oldnut

*The plot thickens*

Well popped the crank out to clean it.says as 16.cleaning the frame some found excelsior on the down tube real faint but there well no painting this one now


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## chitown

*Congrats again on a wonderful ride and beautiful cleaning job!*

1916!!! Great to get a date associated with the bike!

Here is the 1917 celebration of the 1,000,000th Schwinn. It has the same built in dropstand-stop, fenders, fork... but with the big *X* logo/badge instead of the Excelsior Supply/Cycle versions.


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## chitown

*Meanwhile...*

...in 1916, Ignaz and Frank living large with their X lightweight and new 17 series X!


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## cyclingday

chitown said:


> ...in 1916, Ignaz and Frank living large with their X lightweight and new 17 series X!
> What a classic picture! I like the caption. "A chip off the old block."
> I've always wanted to find one of those lightweights.
> You would think that it was a popular bike, but I've never seen a modern day picture of one in a collection.


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## ejlwheels

*1916*

How about a pic and/or report of the serial number on the BB?


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## Oldnut

*Serial no*

Looks like 862653


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## ejlwheels

This bike is kind of a missing link, for me at least.

The 1917 ad says Schwinn made their millionth bike (presumably by sometime in early 1917).
The crank on this bike says 1916 and the serial number is 862653.
Since Schwinn made 1,000,000 bikes between 1902 and 1917 (as the ad states),
then they were producing on average about 65,500 bikes a year.
I speculate that the output was lower in the early 1900's and picked up in the teens.
In fact, the 1917 Schwinn “Excelsior” catalog says that the 1916 output was well over 100,000 by the 1st of November.  I further speculate that a lot of their frames were sold to/thru
Wards, Mead, Black Beauty and hardware stores like Hibbard.

Somewhere in 1917 there was a Schwinn-made frame with the serial number 999999 
and the next one after that was 000001.  I would like to see some frames in the lower number ranges, both early 1900's and late teens.

Starting over at 000001 in 1917 helps explain why by 1930 Schwinn bikes have serial numbers at 450000 and by 1934 serial numbers at 500000.  
After 1917, it appears Schwinn was producing on average around 30,000 frames a year.
Lower output due presumably to WWI, the downturn in the early 20's that apparently killed Davis and Black Beauty.

(Another theory would be that Schwinn made another million frames between 1917 and, say, 1925 and restarted at zero again moving towards 450000 by 1930, which would mean they would have had to produce around 100,000 frames a year between 1917 and 1930.  That seems much less probable to me.  Maybe someone has more evidence?)

Also of note:  The badge uses rivets rather than screws.  The seats stays are not pinched.  In the 1917 Schwinn “Excelsior” catalog some of the frames appear to have pinched stays and some do not.  At some point, most, if not all, Schwinn frames have pinched stays.


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## Oldnut

*Excelsior truss bar*

Well got it together today.put a seat and light I'd been saving for years put a wheel set on it.saved 30% of the paint .is a carbide lamp still used in 1916? I'm doing another wheel set for it with the correct hubs


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## rustyspoke66

Dang! You've been busy.


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## Oldnut

rustyspoke66 said:


> Dang! You've been busy.




what grips are corrcct for this bike?thanks


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## Oldnut

*1916 schwinn excelsior*

Well got it together and put about 5 miles on it.nice bike but maybe about 1 in too tall I'm 5-9 still a great riding bike


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## bikeyard

*Rims*

Where do you find the rims?


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## cl222

Balloontyre said:


> Is the fork and crown like this one?
> Very cool bike.




Same fork as my sears master. I know this fork was used on the master from 1913-1916. I'm not sure about 1917+
Cool Schwinn.


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## filmonger

Lookin good with the Rims and tires.....Cool Bike and great info on the thread!


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## hoofhearted

*Beautiful 1916 Schwinn Arch-Bar, Ron !!!

Super preservation on a 'missing link' in the Schwinn-Line ... 
with that particular badge.*


...........  patric



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## hoofhearted

*BUMP to the top ... very interesting reading ... this thread.*


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## charnleybob

chitown said:


> *Congrats again on a wonderful ride and beautiful cleaning job!*
> 
> 1916!!! Great to get a date associated with the bike!
> 
> Here is the 1917 celebration of the 1,000,000th Schwinn. It has the same built in dropstand-stop, fenders, fork... but with the big *X* logo/badge instead of the Excelsior Supply/Cycle versions.
> 
> View attachment 566915


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## charnleybob

ejlwheels said:


> This bike is kind of a missing link, for me at least.
> 
> The 1917 ad says Schwinn made their millionth bike (presumably by sometime in early 1917).
> The crank on this bike says 1916 and the serial number is 862653.
> Since Schwinn made 1,000,000 bikes between 1902 and 1917 (as the ad states),
> then they were producing on average about 65,500 bikes a year.
> I speculate that the output was lower in the early 1900's and picked up in the teens.
> In fact, the 1917 Schwinn “Excelsior” catalog says that the 1916 output was well over 100,000 by the 1st of November.  I further speculate that a lot of their frames were sold to/thru
> Wards, Mead, Black Beauty and hardware stores like Hibbard.
> 
> Somewhere in 1917 there was a Schwinn-made frame with the serial number 999999
> and the next one after that was 000001.  I would like to see some frames in the lower number ranges, both early 1900's and late teens.
> 
> Starting over at 000001 in 1917 helps explain why by 1930 Schwinn bikes have serial numbers at 450000 and by 1934 serial numbers at 500000.
> After 1917, it appears Schwinn was producing on average around 30,000 frames a year.
> Lower output due presumably to WWI, the downturn in the early 20's that apparently killed Davis and Black Beauty.
> 
> (Another theory would be that Schwinn made another million frames between 1917 and, say, 1925 and restarted at zero again moving towards 450000 by 1930, which would mean they would have had to produce around 100,000 frames a year between 1917 and 1930.  That seems much less probable to me.  Maybe someone has more evidence?)
> 
> Also of note:  The badge uses rivets rather than screws.  The seats stays are not pinched.  In the 1917 Schwinn “Excelsior” catalog some of the frames appear to have pinched stays and some do not.  At some point, most, if not all, Schwinn frames have pinched stays.


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