# Help ID Manta Ray?l



## Shelbygt (Apr 17, 2022)

Serial looks like M0007672. I can’t find it?


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 18, 2022)

Shelbygt said:


> Serial looks like M0007672. I can’t find it?View attachment 1608952
> 
> View attachment 1608953
> 
> View attachment 1608954



Look closer it is either MG Dec '72 or a MQ Dec.'79


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 18, 2022)

No campus green in '79/80 so it must be a MG stamp Dec '72 which is most likely a '73 model and that was no Manta in '73. What size tires are on it? Could be a speedster or something with wrong guard.


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## danfitz1 (Apr 18, 2022)

Pretty sure MG would be December '71....but I'm just a flunkie from farm town


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## Shelbygt (Apr 18, 2022)

Ok I plugged in MG007672 and it comes up December 1971. Looks like there’s a Manta Ray in the 71 and 72 catalogs in campus green.


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## Gordon (Apr 18, 2022)

If it is a Manta Ray it has to be a 71 or 72 as those are the only two years they were made. Correct seats are hard to come by for a Manta.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 18, 2022)

danfitz1 said:


> Pretty sure MG would be December '71....but I'm just a flunkie from farm town



That is the date stamped on the drop out no way it was stamped in  Dec.  and used in the same year. It would be a '72 year model.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 18, 2022)

Did they make coaster brake Manta's?


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## Gordon (Apr 18, 2022)

The OP's bike has the serial number on the head tube. Numbers were moved from the dropout to the headtube in 1972. Coaster brake was an option in 72.


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## Shelbygt (Apr 18, 2022)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Did they make coaster brake Manta's?



Yes but I get the feeling this was a five speed and that was all plucked. The back wheel reflector doesn't match the front. Also, front brake is missing. Seat was swapped out for a Stingray, too.


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## danfitz1 (Apr 18, 2022)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> That is the date stamped on the drop out no way it was stamped in  Dec.  and used in the same year. It would be a '72 year model.



Did I say anything about model year? Didn't think so. Just correcting your misinformation. I have no idea what your drop out stamping date comment is about.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 18, 2022)

danfitz1 said:


> Did I say anything about model year? Didn't think so. Just correcting your misinformation. I have no idea what your drop out stamping date comment is about.



The date stamped on the drop out is stamped at a different time then the manufacture. There is no way a December '71 stamped drop out waqs used on a bike that was offered or sold in '71. No misinformation , nice job  reading the chart. I was actually trying to answer the OP's question beyond that.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 18, 2022)

You are right @danfitz1 I made a typo when I was trying to help find an answer. Did you help out?


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## Shelbygt (Apr 18, 2022)

Thank you for all of your help!


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## danfitz1 (Apr 18, 2022)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> You are right @danfitz1 I made a typo when I was trying to help find an answer. Did you help out?



Yes, I helped out by attempting to clear up the confusion surrounding this bike's serial number date and whether or not it could be a Manta given that date. The bike is 20 miles from me. I wouldn't drive over and get it if it was $100, let alone the $450 asking price. Not sure if that helps the OP out or not. Hope so.


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## Shelbygt (Apr 18, 2022)

danfitz1 said:


> Yes, I helped out by attempting to clear up the confusion surrounding this bike's serial number date and whether or not it could be a Manta given that date. The bike is 20 miles from me. I wouldn't drive over and get it if it was $100, let alone the $450 asking price. Not sure if that helps the OP out or not. Hope so.



That bad? What's the deal?


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## danfitz1 (Apr 18, 2022)

Shelbygt said:


> That bad? What's the deal?



I'm guessing this is a stripped down 5 speed. If you put $450 into it and then had to buy the seat, shifter, rear wheel, cables, etc, you'd be upside down. All just 1 person's opinion of course. It's been posted for a few weeks, so maybe it could be bought at a much lower price. And, you could visit Sheffield, IL. Bonus!


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## Shelbygt (Apr 18, 2022)

danfitz1 said:


> I'm guessing this is a stripped down 5 speed. If you put $450 into it and then had to buy the seat, shifter, rear wheel, cables, etc, you'd be upside down. All just 1 person's opinion of course. It's been posted for a few weeks, so maybe it could be bought at a much lower price. And, you could visit Sheffield, IL. Bonus!



Was thinking 5 speed too. Should say on chain guard.


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## danfitz1 (Apr 18, 2022)

Shelbygt said:


> Was thinking 5 speed too. Should say on chain guard.



Hard to tell with those photos. Could be coaster. What are you looking for? 5 speed? Coaster brake? Project? Good original? I typically pass on them as I'm not a fan. Let me know what you're looking for. I may stumble across one in our area.


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## Shelbygt (Apr 18, 2022)

So the seller met me at a place close by. I was surprised. It’s an original singlespeed. Seat and back tire were swapped out along her 50 year journey. Otherwise amazingly unmolested. We agreed upon a price that was fair for us both.


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## WillWork4Parts (Apr 18, 2022)

Absolutely a singlespeed Manta-Ray. I've got an Orange one I can take pics of when I get home if needed. The coaster guard has the star where the 5 speed has the checkered flags with 5-speed in between. Arched seat stays confirms it also.


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## GTs58 (Apr 18, 2022)

Gordon said:


> The OP's bike has the serial number on the head tube. Numbers were moved from the dropout to the headtube in 1972. Coaster brake was an option in 72.




The numbers were moved to the head tube in May of 1970. This bike was equipped with a serial on the drop out and on the head tube.


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## danfitz1 (Apr 18, 2022)

Shelbygt said:


> So the seller met me at a place close by. I was surprised. It’s an original singlespeed. Seat and back tire were swapped out along her 50 year journey. Otherwise amazingly unmolested. We agreed upon a price that was fair for us both.



Glad it worked out for you. It will look good with your violet Twinn.


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## Shelbygt (Apr 19, 2022)

WillWork4Parts said:


> Absolutely a singlespeed Manta-Ray. I've got an Orange one I can take pics of when I get home if needed. The coaster guard has the star where the 5 speed has the checkered flags with 5-speed in between. Arched seat stays confirms it also.



Arched seat stays?


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## Shelbygt (Apr 19, 2022)

danfitz1 said:


> Glad it worked out for you. It will look good with your violet Twinn.



Was that you that pointed me to the Twinn? Yeah, this cat was gonna be about 20 miles away from me working another dealio. He said he'd bring it with him so I took a look at it after work. It didn't have 5 speed on the chainguard and I saw no evidence of a shifter. In fact, the paint looks surprisingly good overall. The handle grips and handle bars look to be original, too. If I get time I might pull the crankset out and see if there's a date somewhere. I'd like to throw a 24" kickback on the old girl and ride her some. Something drew me to her and I'm glad I took an hour out of my day.


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## Shelbygt (Apr 19, 2022)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> The date stamped on the drop out is stamped at a different time then the manufacture. There is no way a December '71 stamped drop out waqs used on a bike that was offered or sold in '71. No misinformation , nice job  reading the chart. I was actually trying to answer the OP's question beyond that.



Is there a chart for serial numbers?


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## Shelbygt (Apr 19, 2022)

WillWork4Parts said:


> Absolutely a singlespeed Manta-Ray. I've got an Orange one I can take pics of when I get home if needed. The coaster guard has the star where the 5 speed has the checkered flags with 5-speed in between. Arched seat stays confirms it also.



Hey, I'd love to see detailed pictures of yours to see where I need to be. I looks like it had a brake up front that has been removed.


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## danfitz1 (Apr 19, 2022)

Shelbygt said:


> Was that you that pointed me to the Twinn? Yeah, this cat was gonna be about 20 miles away from me working another dealio. He said he'd bring it with him so I took a look at it after work. It didn't have 5 speed on the chainguard and I saw no evidence of a shifter. In fact, the paint looks surprisingly good overall. The handle grips and handle bars look to be original, too. If I get time I might pull the crankset out and see if there's a date somewhere. I'd like to throw a 24" kickback on the old girl and ride her some. Something drew me to her and I'm glad I took an hour out of my day.



Yes, I pointed you to the violet Twinn when you posted here looking for one. I'm only 20 miles from Sheffield, but I have no clue who that seller is. He has several Marketplace listings for bikes and collectibles, which are all posted as being in Princeton. Not sure why his location was different for the Manta. Maybe he has a shop or antique mall booth in Princeton, which is just down the road from Sheffield. I'll watch for a seat.


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## Shelbygt (Apr 19, 2022)

danfitz1 said:


> Yes, I pointed you to the violet Twinn when you posted here looking for one. I'm only 20 miles from Sheffield, but I have no clue who that seller is. He has several Marketplace listings for bikes and collectibles, which are all posted as being in Princeton. Not sure why his location was different for the Manta. Maybe he has a shop or antique mall booth in Princeton, which is just down the road from Sheffield. I'll watch for a seat.



He has a place called Wyanet Carpet in Princeton. I was dragging my feet on driving down because I thought it looked like a whore. When he said he was coming my way and could bring it I said WTF? It ended up being a pleasant surprise. Thanks for the violet Twinn hookup!


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## Gordon (Apr 19, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> The numbers were moved to the head tube in May of 1970. This bike was equipped with a serial on the drop out and on the head tube.
> 
> 
> View attachment 1609536
> ...



I have never seen that before. Both "EF" which I presume is 1970, but one with 5 numbers and one with 6. I have seen charts indicating that the headtube stamping started in 1970 versus 1972 and I guess the bike you pictured is proof. Thanks for sharing.


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## WillWork4Parts (Apr 19, 2022)

Shelbygt said:


> Arched seat stays?








Notice they call the arched top tube of the frame "camel back" in the catalog. The bars that attach from the seat tube to the axle are called seat stays. Arched top tubes came on other 10 speed bikes but only the Stingrays of that era had that single top tube coupled with arched seat stays. The non Stingray models had straight seat stays. 

Here's an example from the catalog of the seat your bike needs too. Unfortunately they cost more than the bike most of the time. 




5 speed guard VS Coaster guard...







Also note the coaster bike has the small mag 1/8" sprocket where the 5 speed has the large mag with 3/32" teeth. 

I've been thinking of building 2 sets of wheels for mine since it came missing the wheels and seat.  I've got 36h center stamped S5s that will probably get the automatic 2speed and 28h S6s that will get a regular coaster hub. I'm still looking for info to see when S5 rims stopped being used, I keep finding early 72 and prior examples though. Sorry, tmi there.  Ha


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 19, 2022)

Gordon said:


> The OP's bike has the serial number on the head tube. Numbers were moved from the dropout to the headtube in 1972. Coaster brake was an option in 72.



I understood the numbers were moved from the dropout to the headtube around April 1970. Anyone can confirm or correct?


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## WillWork4Parts (Apr 19, 2022)

Sorry, the last post I made has pictures stolen from the internet...while trying to find a good shot of the star on the coaster brake model chainguard, I missed the detail of the rear bracket with that green one. Here's my guard, notice the shorter offset bracket at the rear. The Orange one in my above post shows the taller bracket required for the 5 speed freewheel clearance.


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## GTs58 (Apr 19, 2022)

Oldbikeguy1960 said:


> I understood the numbers were moved from the dropout to the headtube around April 1970. Anyone can confirm or correct?



It was May of 70 when they went to the head tube. 

MAY, ---- EF*****

Those two serial number pictures I posted of the drop out and head tube were from one bike, a Twinn that was built with a stamped drop out and a stamped head tube.... What more do you need to confirm when this took place?  🥺


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 19, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> It was May of 70 when they went to the head tube.
> 
> MAY, ---- EF*****
> 
> Those two serial number pictures I posted of the drop out and head tube were from one bike, a Twinn that was built with a stamped drop out and a stamped head tube.... What more do you need to confirm when this took place?  🥺



No need to be rude, man. I was replying to a member who was thinking the break off year was 1972. I knew that to be in error.

I knew it was Spring of 1970. I had the wrong month, but I am sure some website with Schwinn Date code info said April so if it was May that is fine. 

 People used to think 1969 was the break off date, but that was confirmed to be in error. I guess technically that could me more accurate though since a couple members here make a point of reminding everyone that the frames are stamped, but not used until (varying amounts of time) later dates.


It never ceases to amaze me how much information is in error pertaining to Schwinn. Accepted information two years ago is now misinformation.

Who knows what accepted information will be misinformation tomorrow?
Rob


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## GTs58 (Apr 19, 2022)

Oldbikeguy1960 said:


> No need to be rude, man. I was replying to a member who was thinking the break off year was 1972. I knew that to be in error.
> 
> I knew it was Spring of 1970. I had the wrong month, but I am sure some website with Schwinn Date code info said April so if it was May that is fine.
> 
> ...




The myth that the Schwinn frames were stamped when they were built has been going on for decades, and that myth is still being spread. Other manufactures had different practices, but Schwinn started stamping the serial numbers before the frame was built probably close to a 100 years ago. The Paramounts are a different story. One of the owners of the Schwinnbikeforum is still spreading this misinformation to all the members so the rumor continues to be spread.


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 20, 2022)

Trying to research this, I noticed Dave Strombergers posts on Schwinn Serial Numbers 1970-1982 doesnt specify when the numbers went to the head tube, only that it happened in 1970

In searchng further I found two other websites that are obviously wrong. One was the one our member found that said the number moved in 1972. NOTE AGAIN THAT I KNOW THAT I KNOW THIS TO BE WRONG.

The other one, Sheldon Browns site says the number moved in 1965, which was the first year for the new serial number format but not the first year for the numbers on the headtube.
That site being so far off is a surprise, since he is recognized as an expert in most things bicycle.


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## Shelbygt (Apr 20, 2022)

WillWork4Parts said:


> View attachment 1609638
> 
> Notice they call the arched top tube of the frame "camel back" in the catalog. The bars that attach from the seat tube to the axle are called seat stays. Arched top tubes came on other 10 speed bikes but only the Stingrays of that era had that single top tube coupled with arched seat stays. The non Stingray models had straight seat stays.
> 
> ...



Great information. My frame is a 12/71 build


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## Shelbygt (Apr 20, 2022)

I noticed the front and rear wheels are different. Guessing one is S5 and one is S6. Think I read it’s supposed to be S5 somewhere. Does anyone know which is right?


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## WillWork4Parts (Apr 20, 2022)

As far as I know, the rear S5 with the hump in the middle is original to that era bike. It's an early bendix 70 hub too. The 70 stamp isn't a precise year either, just a model per-se that ran on bikes from late 69 to late 75 when it became the Bendix 76 model. Somewhere in that range the machining on the shell changed from having diagonal knurling like yours to smooth continuous rings. 
I can't tell for sure on the front hub, but looks to be aluminum? If it is there will be a date stamp, "MADE IN FRANCE 4-73" or something pretty close.


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## WillWork4Parts (Apr 20, 2022)

And yes, please, some others chime in on this with their Stingray examples. I think the knurled rear hub shell is close enough, but not sure when the cutoff was. 
I can't find when the cutoff for S5 rims was either to say what was good for my LH stamped Manta...since they don't appear in the 73 catalog. Was thinking somewhere in the middle of 72. I definitely have not found any S5 rims on 73 hubs though.


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## Shelbygt (Apr 20, 2022)

WillWork4Parts said:


> As far as I know, the rear S5 with the hump in the middle is original to that era bike. It's an early bendix 70 hub too. The 70 stamp isn't a precise year either, just a model per-se that ran on bikes from late 69 to late 75 when it became the Bendix 76 model. Somewhere in that range the machining on the shell changed from having diagonal knurling like yours to smooth continuous rings.
> I can't tell for sure on the front hub, but looks to be aluminum? If it is there will be a date stamp, "MADE IN FRANCE 4-73" or something pretty close.



I'm going to look closer but that front rim looks Brand X to me. Just a flat surface, no humps, etc. Probably some Huffy or Murray!


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## WillWork4Parts (Apr 20, 2022)

Shelbygt said:


> I'm going to look closer but that front rim looks Brand X to me. Just a flat surface, no humps, etc. Probably some Huffy or Murray!



It's possible, Murray made one close enough that Schwinn took them to court saying Only Schwinns Can Have Knurling! Lol there's a copyright out there at least. The Schwinn S6 is more of a flat/square contour too, but will be stamped as such. Went to get an example pic, but it seems they half a§§ed it in 75..


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## Shelbygt (Apr 20, 2022)

WillWork4Parts said:


> View attachment 1609638
> 
> Notice they call the arched top tube of the frame "camel back" in the catalog. The bars that attach from the seat tube to the axle are called seat stays. Arched top tubes came on other 10 speed bikes but only the Stingrays of that era had that single top tube coupled with arched seat stays. The non Stingray models had straight seat stays.
> 
> ...



Are the rims date stamped?


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## WillWork4Parts (Apr 20, 2022)

Shelbygt said:


> Are the rims date stamped?



Not with a year...but this one you can barely make out the S after Tubular and there should be a 6 after that, not visible at all on this rim. You can gauge the age by how deep the knurling is, but that takes a bit of a calibrated eye and is definitely not exact, just something that happened as a result of their Tooling wearing down over years of use. Something else to note is that the earlier bikes(ending 66-68ish) had the lettering stamped in the middle of the rim, where the later bikes were side stamped....and there's even an inverse side stamp S7 in 65...and no lettering started in the late 70s.


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## Shelbygt (Apr 20, 2022)

Terrible picture of the handlebar but it is 71. The front hub is made in France. There’s probably a date, I just need to clean it up. Maybe it’s my imagination, but it looks like it’s stamped S6 S7 on the rim. That’s not possible, is it? I think this chrome will clean and polish to look like new. It was stored inside somewhere.


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## Shelbygt (Apr 20, 2022)

The crank sprocket doesn’t look as robust as the 5 speed.


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## WillWork4Parts (Apr 20, 2022)

Yeah, pretty sure that's a scrape, there are others in the same direction around it. Certainly looks like a 7 right there, ha but it's not a stamp. Those S6 and S5 rims take special diameter tires marked 24x1-3/8 (and some 10 speeds had 24x1-1/4"). Schwinn had to be special so that you had to come back to them for replacement tires. Don't even think about putting tires marked 24x1.375" or 24x1.25", they are not compatible. There are rare exceptions of later produced tires, but they had better say "to fit S5 or S6 rims." You'll see plenty of other discussion/arguments surrounding size compatibility, but I'm so tired of seeing this question pop up....I just want to nip that one in the bud and clarify before you find yourself with a fruitless tire purchase. .


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## Shelbygt (Apr 20, 2022)

WillWork4Parts said:


> Yeah, pretty sure that's a scrape, there are others in the same direction around it. Certainly looks like a 7 right there, ha but it's not a stamp. Those S6 and S5 rims take special diameter tires marked 24x1-3/8 (and some 10 speeds had 24x1-1/4"). Schwinn had to be special so that you had to come back to them for replacement tires. Don't even think about putting tires marked 24x1.375" or 24x1.25", they are not compatible. There are rare exceptions of later produced tires, but they had better say "to fit S5 or S6 rims." You'll see plenty of other discussion/arguments surrounding size compatibility, but I'm so tired of seeing this question pop up....I just want to nip that one in the bud and clarify before you find yourself with a fruitless tire purchase. .



Tires are a question I've been trying to get answered. I'm guessing they aren't reproducing the 24" slick?


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## WillWork4Parts (Apr 20, 2022)

Shelbygt said:


> Tires are a question I've been trying to get answered. I'm guessing they aren't reproducing the 24" slick?



No sir. Not to my knowledge. They have made the 20x1-3/8" slik that looks great, but no word of a 24".


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## ADKBIKES (Apr 25, 2022)

Its a coaster Manta , no marks on frame for shifter  and coaster sprocket  Dec 71


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