# Trying to identify a late 1930's bicycle



## the202 (Feb 1, 2010)

Hello everyone,

I'm trying to figure out what kind of bike this is.  Although I've been studying vintage bicycle sites, I haven't found any online pictures that match this image.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.







You can see a higher resolution image here


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## RMS37 (Feb 1, 2010)

The bike is a Snyder built Montgomery Ward's Hawthorne and dates to 1938-1939


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## the202 (Feb 1, 2010)

RMS37 said:


> The bike is a Snyder built Montgomery Ward's Hawthorne and dates to 1938-1939




Wow, I didn't expect an answer to my question so quickly!  Thank you.


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## RMS37 (Feb 1, 2010)

Thanks for posting the picture, it's a great picture and the high res scan really helps pull out the details. Anyone you know?
I have a catalog picture of essentially the same bike. I'll try to dig it out, scan and post it for you.


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## the202 (Feb 1, 2010)

The young man on the Hawthorne is my Father.  He was born in 1926 and I was guessing that he was 10-12 years in that picture - hence the "late 1930's" title of my post.

The image was derived from an old, 2 inch black and white negative that I managed to scan, invert and restore.  I'm an avid mountain biker and have been riding most of my life, first BMX, then Road and now Mountain (and Road).    The funny thing is I never knew that my dad owned a bike - or could actually ride one - until I saw this image.

Now, of course, I'm really interested in that bike - I'd like to find one (restored or not).  Although I've only been researching vintage bikes for a short time, I'm very intrigued.


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## Strings-n-Spokes (Feb 2, 2010)

Where was the picture taken?  It looks like there are mountains in the background?
Here is a similar Hawthorne I bought last summer.
Although incorrect these frames are often called Zep Frames ( Sorry Phil )
this might help your search for images and information.
Best Regards
Shane


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## the202 (Feb 2, 2010)

Your bike looks great *Strings-n-Spokes*, very similar to the style I’ve been investigating.  Thanks for the tip regarding the term “Zep” frame…as you mentioned, it does yield more search information.

BTW, the picture I posted was most likely taken in either Greeley, Colorado or Sheridan, Wyoming.


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## DonChristie (Feb 2, 2010)

Your dad definately looks like he IS the king on that bike!! You can tell he is excited! Nice bike! I would assume it is a 20 inch?


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## RMS37 (Feb 2, 2010)

It is a full size 26" bike, the Snyder Fastback Sport "Zep" frames are low slung. When in doubt about wheels size count the spokes.


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## the202 (Feb 3, 2010)

I found this scan at nostalgic.net - according to the title of the post, this catalog page is from 1939.


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## RMS37 (Feb 3, 2010)

Montgomery Ward released their full mail order catalogs twice a year as Fall/Winter and Spring/Summer issues. The picture from Nostalgig.Net is taken from the SS-39 issue. The identical bike is also pictured in the previous issue (FW-38/39). The bike is also pictured in the FW-39/40 issue but the distinctive ten sided “Zep” light was dropped and replaced by a standard torpedo light. Those are the three catalogs that show that frame with that paint scheme. A similar model with that frame was offered earlier but in different livery. Based on the catalog information your father’s bike was probably produced and sold sometime between the Summer of 1938 and the Summer of 1939.

If you are looking for a frame to build a replica of your father’s bike note that the appropriate frame will have the built in ears on the dropouts for the drop stand. Earlier versions of the frame do not have these. The frame itself will not be hard to find as it was produced in large numbers under several different badge names with plenty surviving. They are prone to accident distortion which will show up first in bent forks and secondly in a bent seat tube (from the force of the accident traveling rearward and kinking the seat tube where it intersects the lower top tube). Finding an original Hawthorne with the same paint pattern will be a bit more involved as it is one of many different patterns produced but still not hard relative to some of the more rare bikes that fathers have owned.

Good luck and keep the forum posted on your progress and questions.


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## the202 (Feb 3, 2010)

Phil,

Thanks for all the great information, it’s extremely helpful.  I’ve decided to replicate the bike as pictured since that approach seems to allow the most flexibility.  So as you said, I may end up using a frame that originally carried another badge but otherwise matches my father’s bike (including the dropout ears).  Ultimately I want the bike to pass as NEW - although obviously restored.

I’ve already been searching through thecabe.com and have found a lot of excellent tips and resources.  I also decided to subscribe to Classic Bicycle News magazine, hopefully that will help me as well.

This weekend my wife and I are traveling to Indianapolis for the _Hoosier Antique & Classic Bicycle Club Winter Swap Meet_.  I’ve never been to an event like that, so it should be interesting for us.  I'm also considering a second bike, essentially the Women's version of my Dad's Hawthorne.  :eek:


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## Classicriders (Feb 4, 2010)

I will be there too. Be sure to introduce yourself at the Classic Bicycle News booth.  Scott M and I will have our Classic Bicycle News banner up so we will be easy to find.  I will have several pieces of literature on hand that will help you pin down the exact year of your bike.  Here is a tip.  The 1936 version of your bike would have had a hex collar nut on top of the seat tube that was used to tighten the seat post.  This was only offered in 36.  The pinch bolt style was 1937 and older.  I will show you in the literature, much easier that way.  Too bad we can't see that feature in your pic.  See ya there!

C.R.


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## RMS37 (Feb 4, 2010)

_“The pinch bolt style was 1937 and older_.”  CR means 37 and newer (typo I’m sure) 

Also the drop tangs, that Hawthorne paint scheme, and the headlight all preclude your father’s bike from being earlier than 38 so being able to view the seat cluster for the 36 only hex collar seat binder is a moot point.


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## the202 (Feb 7, 2010)

*Classicriders*, unfortunately a sizable winter storm moved through my area Friday evening and Saturday morning.  Because of that we decided not to venture out yesterday.  I was looking forward to meeting you and Scott at the Classic Rider News booth.  Hopefully we can connect at a future meet; I noticed a few upcoming events in Ohio – March, April and October – I’ll definitely be at one of those.


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