# Early Frame of Uncertain Origin...Rollfast?



## mazdaflyer (Dec 9, 2011)

An eBay aquisition, frame, fork, stem, bars, headset, crank sprocket and Rollfast headbadge with marginal powder coat finish.  I added wheelset, tires and saddle.  Have skiptooth chain which I need to shorten, undicided on pedals.  
Any frame ID infor would be appreciated...









Shimano hub with skiptooth adapter gear


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## jpromo (Dec 9, 2011)

We were talking about this one when it was up on ebay--I don't remember what the verdict was. Looks Westfield-built to me but these diamond frames all look about the same to me.

I liked it right away when I saw it online (thought about bidding myself) and I love the look you gave it! Nice work.


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## rustyspoke66 (Dec 9, 2011)

I've seen a Sears Master from the teens with the same front fork. The ridge on the side of the fork blades and the fork crown would have originally been nickel plated. Cool bike and I think it was a good deal.  like jprmo said, these old diamond frames are kind of tough to figure out.


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## Larmo63 (Dec 9, 2011)

Dude, flip those bars over........!


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## chitown (Dec 10, 2011)

*Ranger?*

http://sheldonbrown.com/ranger.html

Fork looks like a Mead.


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## JAcycle (Dec 10, 2011)

*rollfast?*

I have an early Rollst  ('33-'34 ) and from what I'm seeing, the chain tension screws are 1/4" as opposed to 3/16". Also the head badge has hoizontal rivot pattern w/ no rivots and no holes in frame. Other wise it is a nice rider.Just my 2 cents.


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## mazdaflyer (Dec 10, 2011)

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chitown said:


> http://sheldonbrown.com/ranger.html
> 
> Fork looks like a Mead.




The fork and rear dropouts do seem to match, the rear seat stays are ovalized. The crank also seems to match the Ranger. The sprocket is of a different design but could be a transplant. Maybe I need to find a new head badge. Thanks for the input!


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## mazdaflyer (Dec 10, 2011)

Larmo63 said:


> Dude, flip those bars over........!




Yes it would look more hip, but I'm an old guy and would have trouble with the dropped bars.


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## dubsey55 (Dec 10, 2011)

Liked this one too, when seen on the bay" Looks good, and the bars are fine, just like that!  Mayby add some truss rods?


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## chitown (Dec 10, 2011)

Drop outs look Mead designed also.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=41...PA1#v=onepage&q=mead ininventor:lewis&f=false

View attachment 34086 View attachment 34087 View attachment 34088

I'm guessing the sprocket on yours is not original... but getting a correct one would depend on what year your bike is. Sheldon Brown's bike has a skip tooth dated to 1916 and the sprocket shown in the patent is dated 1919. All depends on what you want to do with it. Too bad it looks so good just like it is. Makes it harder to want to think about restoring it as original while the bike is screaming RIDE ME! Congrats on a sweet ride though either way.


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## chitown (Dec 10, 2011)

mazdaflyer said:


> Yes it would look more hip...





Hip is overrated... Besides it wouldn't be correct.


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## scrubbinrims (Dec 10, 2011)

Always great to find these in mint condition!
Chris


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## frogger1903 (Dec 10, 2011)

*Early Peerless Bicycle*

Hey - I think your bike is an early Peerless ! Peerless used that exact chainring and also the ribbed fork. Are there any  headbadge holes in the headtube, or signs of holes filled in ? 
                                               Dennis


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## F4iGuy (Dec 10, 2011)

*Tires*

Beautiful bike!! What size tires are those and where did you find them in all white?


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## mazdaflyer (Dec 11, 2011)

*Electra Amsterdam*



F4iGuy said:


> Beautiful bike!! What size tires are those and where did you find them in all white?




They are 700c x 40, they are a China made tire used by Electra on their Amsterdam bicycles.  Found at LBS for half the price of those on Amazon.com. They are an off white cream color.


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## frogger1903 (Dec 11, 2011)

*1915 Peerless*

Mazdaflyer - Look on page 49 of Vol. 1, Evolution Of The Bicycle. A copy of an ad for a 1915 Peerless - looks like your bicycle !


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## mazdaflyer (Dec 11, 2011)

frogger1903 said:


> Mazdaflyer - Look on page 49 of Vol. 1, Evolution Of The Bicycle. A copy of an ad for a 1915 Peerless - looks like your bicycle !




Book out of stock on CABE and high dollar on Amazon...but, thanks I'll try to find a copy of the book to look at.


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## chitown (Dec 11, 2011)

View attachment 34313

Since Sears offered the Peerless badged bike, the only question might be what manufacturer did they source for their frames? The similarity with the Peerless and the Mead of the same era are pretty darn close except for the chain ring.


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## sam (Dec 11, 2011)

The ribbed fork is a british pat. fork design. It is called the interal trussed fork.Thay are bery strong forks and your bike looks really great.I know it's a hip(ed) up modern  maybe city type bike bit it really shows what can be done with an antique frame.Not made any better---Internal lugged too--has the fish mouth flaired tube ends where the joints are---great lookin bike


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## mazdaflyer (Dec 11, 2011)

*Mead...Peerless*



chitown said:


> View attachment 34313
> 
> Since Sears offered the Peerless badged bike, the only question might be what manufacturer did they source for their frames? The similarity with the Peerless and the Mead of the same era are pretty darn close except for the chain ring.




In the Sears Peerless image the chainring design looks identical to what I have.  The Mead patent drawings for the rear dropout and fork tube and head seem to match my bike.  The Sears Peerless fork image appears to also have the rib on the side of the fork. 

The 1915 Peerless image on page 49 of the "Evolution of the Bicycle" book has the same chainring but the fork appears to be a block type without the layered pieces of the Mead fork.

So would Mead have made Peerless frames as Sears was headquartered in Chicago?  Maybe the bike started as a Mead or Peerless and ended up with a Rollfast head badge glued on.  When I do my final assembly I'll have to look for badge mounting holes on the inside of the headtube.

In my "Rollfast Bicycles" book it states that Snyder & Fisher began producing bicycles in 1895, and became H.P. Snyder Manufacturing Co. in 1899. Rollfast was the predominate nameplate originating from roller skates.  They apparently would put any headbadge you wanted on their bikes for quantity purchases.  It appears Peerless was one option as well.

Thanks to all for lots of clues, although the truth may never be known as to it's real origin.  It may be just a collection of parts, Mead, Peerless, Rollfast or other manufacturers...and a few new things.  Thanks for the compliments, I to like the bike, very anxious to ride it.


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## mazdaflyer (Dec 11, 2011)

sam said:


> The ribbed fork is a british pat. fork design. It is called the interal trussed fork.Thay are bery strong forks and your bike looks really great.I know it's a hip(ed) up modern  maybe city type bike bit it really shows what can be done with an antique frame.Not made any better---Internal lugged too--has the fish mouth flaired tube ends where the joints are---great lookin bike




I noticed the internal flared ends in head tube when I was doing mockup assembly.  Maybe the ribbed fork is another clue to it's origin since Mead had factories in England and Chicago? Thanks!


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## frogger1903 (Dec 12, 2011)

*It's Still A Peerless !*

Here's a different version of the same Sears ad showing your ribbed fork more clearly, with your exact chainring, and a description of the ribbed fork on your bike !   

Go to the following address:

http://dailydesigndiscoveries.com/post/4919636222/high-art-peerless-bicycle-c-1910-from-a-sears

                                                 Hope this helps -  Dennis


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## mazdaflyer (Dec 12, 2011)

*Amazing people on The CABE*



frogger1903 said:


> Here's a different version of the same Sears ad showing your ribbed fork more clearly, with your exact chainring, and a description of the ribbed fork on your bike !
> 
> Go to the following address:
> 
> ...




Darn nice illustration Dennis...i like the idea of 1910 better yet. The rear dropout still doesn't look quite the same. Chainring and fork look the same. As a child my first bike was a 24" from Sears.  What goes arround may come around.


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## Larmo63 (Dec 12, 2011)

I like how in the ad, they also show the bars dropped. 

So it isn't incorrect.


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## frogger1903 (Dec 13, 2011)

That ad would make a neat poster !  Also, If anyone has a sprocket for sale, like the one in the ad , I would be interested .


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## mazdaflyer (Dec 14, 2011)

*Flaired ends at headtube*



sam said:


> The ribbed fork is a british pat. fork design. It is called the interal trussed fork.Thay are bery strong forks and your bike looks really great.I know it's a hip(ed) up modern  maybe city type bike bit it really shows what can be done with an antique frame.Not made any better---Internal lugged too--has the fish mouth flaired tube ends where the joints are---great lookin bike









There are two former headbadge holes in the headtube around 3 inches O.C. vertically.
Three of the flaired top bar ends shows in this poor photo.


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## mazdaflyer (Dec 14, 2011)

*Witn Chain and Bag...Minus Pedals*



frogger1903 said:


> Here's a different version of the same Sears ad showing your ribbed fork more clearly, with your exact chainring, and a description of the ribbed fork on your bike !
> Go to the following address:
> 
> http://dailydesigndiscoveries.com/post/4919636222/high-art-peerless-bicycle-c-1910-from-a-sears
> ...




Greased up the headset and shortened the chain today. Could remove another link, but the guy that makes the skiptooth adapter gears is suppose to be making a 10 tooth version which would be a bit easier on the knees.  
Notice the bag, not quite like the possible original shown in the ad but close and cheaper than a Brooks. Have some rat trap cage pedals on the way.




First ride day looms...


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## frogger1903 (Dec 14, 2011)

*Peerless Headbadge*

You're getting close ! 
My Peerless headbadge holes are spaced approximately 2 & 15/16 inches O.C.
                         Dennis


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## mazdaflyer (Dec 14, 2011)

*Peerless Headbadge*



frogger1903 said:


> You're getting close !
> My Peerless headbadge holes are spaced approximately 2 & 15/16 inches O.C.
> Dennis




That is about what I was able measure from the inside as well...guess I need a Peerless headbadge.  I have a couple of other Rollfast bikes, I like the ball bearing look of the older badges. How about posting a photo of your Peerless?


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## mazdaflyer (Dec 18, 2011)

*Serial Number*

Added a pair of VP cage pedals, took a shake down cruise.  Got the tire treads dirty, a little different feel than a modern bike. 
Serial number stamped on bottom bracket is 335227 along one side, with a stray #7 in the middle.


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## Dobie (Dec 18, 2011)

*Peerless*

I, also believe it to be similar to the Peerless in the 1910 catalogue. I have one which, for the longest time I thought was a Mead; forks are the same, but what changed my mind is the chainring and the triangular cranks, also the fact that a Peerless HB fits the holes and the Mead doesn't ..... I see that your chainring is skiptooth whereas mine is not...Who made the frame? Maybe Davis for Sears.  Mine is now hanging in the rafters in primer until I get motivated to mix up the correct  green and sunburst gold.   http://s917.photobucket.com/albums/ad20/dobie45/PEERLESS CA 1910/


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## mazdaflyer (Dec 18, 2011)

Dobie said:


> I, also believe it to be similar to the Peerless in the 1910 catalogue. I have one which, for the longest time I thought was a Mead; forks are the same, but what changed my mind is the chainring and the triangular cranks, also the fact that a Peerless HB fits the holes and the Mead doesn't ..... I see that your chainring is skiptooth whereas mine is not...Who made the frame? Maybe Davis for Sears.  Mine is now hanging in the rafters in primer until I get motivated to mix up the correct  green and sunburst gold.   http://s917.photobucket.com/albums/ad20/dobie45/PEERLESS CA 1910/




One of the previous postings in this thread showed a 1914 Peerless with the normal pitch chainring like yours. The frame details of yours appear to match mine. Good luck with your paint work.


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## rustyspoke66 (Dec 18, 2011)

Now to find a badge. This one might be a bit new. Maybe one of the badge guys can do a repop.


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## mazdaflyer (Jan 17, 2012)

rustyspoke66 said:


> Now to find a badge. This one might be a bit new. Maybe one of the badge guys can do a repop.




Found this image of a 1915 Peerless headbadge


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## mazdaflyer (Jan 17, 2012)

*1915 Peerless Ad*

1915 Peerless catalog ad...notice chain upgrade.


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## mazdaflyer (Jan 17, 2012)

*1914 Napoleon*

Pretty much the same as Peerless, different chainring...


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## mazdaflyer (Jan 30, 2012)

*Kerosene Lamp Find*

Found this kerosene lamp marked Columbia by Hine-Watt Manufacturing Co. of Chicago in an antique shop.  I should say my wonderful wife found it as she noticed it first.  
Signs of age, couple of dents, some rusting on bracket, but not much indication of any use. Still has felt in the mounting bracket.  Planning to add it to the bike in this thread, thinking fork mount, although the mounting bracket would appear to work on head tube as well.


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## mazdaflyer (Feb 1, 2012)

Lamp installed


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## peerless al (Jul 1, 2014)

*Peerless*

My Peerless appears to be identical to Mazdaflyer's. Most badges I have seen say just Peerless. Mine also says Peerless Cycle Works Chicago. I left what I had original and added German Thun 180mm crank from my son's BMX days, a New Departure coaster brake, a 24 tooth chainwheel, French Lyotard pedals from Schwinn, an early alloy stem, early drop bars, new (about 10 years ago) Mavic 700c rims, a Wright saddle, and was ready to go. I love riding this bike for its classic(antique) feeling. I am able to go quite fast on the flat and the long crank helps with climbs.I will send photos.    Peerless Al
 PS I  don't know how to attach my photos. If someone can explain please contact al.holmy@yahoo.com       Thanks


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## willswares1220 (Jul 1, 2014)

That bike is looking good and I do like that unusual color!


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## mazdaflyer (Feb 11, 2018)

The original photos in this post missing are held hostage by Photobucket. 
I got a pair of leather wrapped grips from @Abrahamsen and put them on the bike that started this thread. It is thought to be a 1910ish Peerless. 
I’m posting a few progress and current pics. When I got the frame set it had a glued on Rollfast badge.


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## removed (Feb 24, 2018)

Larmo63 said:


> Dude, flip those bars over........!




Leave them like they are its not a racing bike


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## Archie Sturmer (Jun 17, 2018)

So, in this resurrected 2011 thread, the 3-heart chain ring looks to me like the Davis No. 2 chain ring (26-tooth).



I have a 52-tooth variant, which mated with a 24 rear makes for a modest 2.083 ratio, (similar to 46-22 beach cruisers).



I am new to the site; with all their patents, Mead must have built bikes, at least at some time.
But did Davis make Mead bicycles (?).
Also, the special fork too looks like my Mead Ranger tall diamond frame, and the Davis No. 20 fork.


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## mazdaflyer (Jun 17, 2018)

Archie Sturmer said:


> So, in this resurrected 2011 thread, the 3-heart chain ring looks to me like the Davis No. 2 chain ring (26-tooth).
> View attachment 825370
> I have a 52-tooth variant, which mated with a 24 rear makes for a modest 2.083 ratio, (similar to 46-22 beach cruisers).
> View attachment 825357
> ...



I don’t have knowledge of a Mead/Davis connection. If I remember correctly I do have some patent drawing images for the fork. I’ll look for them. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mazdaflyer (Jun 17, 2018)

Here are a couple of patent drawing images that were posted back towards the front of this thread.  My bike appears to have these features. The actual patent dates are later though. The Sears images seem to match as well. 

 

 
And a Ranger image. 

 
Input is always welcome.


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