# Help dating this Raleigh



## liquidvibe (Sep 10, 2012)

There are  2 numbers stamped on the Sturmey hub, 6 and 11. According to Sheldon a single number would have been used in the 30s but he doesn't mention anything about a second number stamped on there.. So I'm wondering if the hub is dated at November 1936? Or if it's something totally different. And what do you all think this bike is worth? I got it at an auction pretty cheap so I'm not too worried I over paid but would be nice to know an approximate value. Also anyone know what an original seat on this bike would have been (I assume this one is not)??

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.


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## Andrew Gorman (Sep 10, 2012)

Maybe a 1946? if so the sprocket will be threaded, not a 3-lug style.  A 1938 hub I have looks different- no "three speed" stamping, and the 8 date code is inside the Sturmey-Archer box.  The decals look older than newer, but Raleighs were virtually unchanged from the dawn of time.  The paint is bulletproof and will polish out to a high shine with brasso.  There are a lot of Raleigh catalogs on the web to look through.  What it's worth depends on where you are but probably $150.00US or less even after a tune-up.


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## Andrew Gorman (Sep 10, 2012)

Oh, and the original seat would have been a lower end leather saddle or a springy mattress saddle. Here is a picture of a 1939  AW hub:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8728562@N06/4414293056/


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## SirMike1983 (Sep 10, 2012)

That style of decal and set up would be late 1950s-mid 1960s era. My bet is you have a partial strike on your date code and it's 196something. 1962 maybe based on your picture? It's not from the 1930s. The original saddle for this would be a Brooks leather, probably B66 or B72, depending on whether the rider wanted to go basic or upscale. Vinyl mattress would be on a lower tier version.

Andrew- I saw the 30 inch frame BSA in that album you linked. That's insane- the rider must have been like 6 ft 10in.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8728562@N06/4451077371/in/photostream/


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## liquidvibe (Sep 11, 2012)

SirMike1983 said:


> That style of decal and set up would be late 1950s-mid 1960s era. My bet is you have a partial strike on your date code and it's 196something. 1962 maybe based on your picture? It's not from the 1930s. The original saddle for this would be a Brooks leather, probably B66 or B72, depending on whether the rider wanted to go basic or upscale. Vinyl mattress would be on a lower tier version.
> 
> Andrew- I saw the 30 inch frame BSA in that album you linked. That's insane- the rider must have been like 6 ft 10in.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8728562@N06/4451077371/in/photostream/





Yeah I was thinking 1960s also because I have a men's version of this from 66' which looks basically identical to this one. So any thoughts on that second number (11) stamped on the hub? On my other bike it just has a 66 stamped right in the middle. That's really the only thing that is throwing me off.

I also noticed some numbers and letters on the frame at the top of the seat tube. The way they are on there makes no sense according to how Sheldon describes and talks about Raleigh serial numbers. Its 681 6 with N just below the space and below that a WG. So not sure what all that means or if that might be something carved in later or something. Here is pic tho it's not real clear.


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## SirMike1983 (Sep 11, 2012)

They're somewhat legendary in terms of trouble dating them using serials. They used multiple styles of number and often added random letters to prefixes and suffixes on their numbers. The N generally stands for Nottingham factory. The location of the stamp also is a clue. What is most useful is using a mix of the hub and the decals/paint. The Raleigh serial number guide on the Sheldon Brown site is something I've never found very useful. It is one of the preeminent bike sites, especially for old Raleighs, but there have been some more recent innovations in registering serials for Raleigh Sports models. 

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_ralsport_visID.html

Kurt K at the Headbadge has put together a pretty decent guide to decals on Sports models over the years. Check it out and see where yours fits best. It does appear to be a 1960s model. The "6" imprint on the hub and your decals definitely seem to urge early or mid-1960s here. He also has done a Raleigh serial number registry, but it's still only somewhat useful because Raleigh seems to have been all over the place with their numbers/prefixes/suffixes.

Raleighs are also somewhat different in the sense that they seem to be manufactured "by era" rather than by year. Raleigh would put together a set of decals/paints/parts and make the same bike with those for several years at a time. Old American balloon tire models often would change from year to year like cars. Raleigh was more constant in that they would make the same exact bike for several years at a time. In that sense a specific, pinpoint year is nice to have but not as necessary with Raleighs because the differences year to year are less important than the differences in terms of the overall era of manufacture.


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## liquidvibe (Sep 11, 2012)

SirMike1983 said:


> They're somewhat legendary in terms of trouble dating them using serials. They used multiple styles of number and often added random letters to prefixes and suffixes on their numbers. The N generally stands for Nottingham factory. The location of the stamp also is a clue. What is most useful is using a mix of the hub and the decals/paint. The Raleigh serial number guide on the Sheldon Brown site is something I've never found very useful. It is one of the preeminent bike sites, especially for old Raleighs, but there have been some more recent innovations in registering serials for Raleigh Sports models.
> 
> http://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_ralsport_visID.html
> 
> ...




Great site, thanks for the reference. Unfortunately my serial number still makes no sense... Ha the location and number of digits appears to fall into the 1948-195? category but the letters themselves (WG) aren't matched any where. Lots of good info on the site though, thanks again.


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## SirMike1983 (Sep 11, 2012)

liquidvibe said:


> Great site, thanks for the reference. Unfortunately my serial number still makes no sense... Ha the location and number of digits appears to fall into the 1948-195? category but the letters themselves (WG) aren't matched any where. Lots of good info on the site though, thanks again.




They continued that location past the 1950s and into the 1960s. 

_"1955-1964(?) Serial System:
In addition to the two serial types above, a third system appears to have been established in 1955, or at the earliest, 1954; terminating in the early-mid '60s - the most recent example I have on hand is from 1962, though I suspect the official cutoff may date to 1963 or '64. 

This system follows a similar pattern to Convention #2 above, and uses a prefix or suffic of "RA" or "RB," followed by 4 or 5 digits, but never exceeding 5. Location is on the side of the seat lug, as with the earlier serials above. 

By 1961/62, an additional-single letter suffix was added, presumably as an identifier of the factory the frame was produced, for every single example I've seen is represented by the letter "N," which is not unreasonable to assume stands for Nottingham. Neither it is not out of the question that other letters may exist, representing Raleigh's other factories."_


Having an N on there, it should be after 1961 but before the change in the mid-60s to later decals.


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