# *Monark SILVER KING* Parts ID Help..



## Wayne Adam (Dec 30, 2011)

I have a Silver King frame and parts that I want to sell, but I would first like to know the year of the frame, sprocket & truss rods,
 and I would also like to know if the fender is even part of the bike. Also, what would be a fair price to get for these parts?. I really need
to get as much as I can since I really need money.
 I believe that this is a 24" bike frame. The serial number on the frame is 370103

PS... I Will consider offers now, before I list them if anyone is interested.

Thanks for your help!......................Wayne


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## chitown (Dec 31, 2011)

Looks like '37 base model (no locking headseat) so M237 or M537 would be my guess. (can you confirm serial #. seems an extra # might be in there from what I'm used to seeing.

I believe the expansion seatpost that is straight (like yours) was on '37 & above. The '36 model had the "lucky 7" seatpost with the expansion bolt like a neck/stem.

Fenders could be original. Check length against a 26" fender brace to see if is shorter for the 24" setup on the Silver Kings.

Crank and sprocket don't look right for that year (skiptooth only "35 models) Check crank for markings. I've seen 37 models with "M    36" marked on the cranks. Used left over cranks from a big run from their 36 production year? The dogleg on the crank also looks different from the Silver King cranks I've seen. 

Pie crust chainguard? That one has me stumped. Looks homemade?

Here's a real Silver King pie crust:

http://www.nostalgic.net/bicycle577/picture2431

Good luck on the sale.

Chris


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## chitown (Jan 2, 2012)

*Caveat Emptor*

Saw these listed on feebay and not sure if you should be listing it as Silver King parts. The piecrust guard was never on a skiptooth setup. The fact that they have screws and not rivets is another red flag as to not being original. The other factor is that there are 4 holes that don't line up with the chainring (5 points/holes) That's why I linked to Daves Vintage to show the difference in these.

Just thought you should maybe revise your listing on that one. I would be upset if I thought I was bidding on SK items and found out they were not the real deal.


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## Wayne Adam (Jan 2, 2012)

*Hi Chris...*

Thanks for the info. I will ad to my description, but I hope that the people bidding know exactly what they need. I will mention that they came with the
SK, but may not be correct for it. I do believe that the pie crust & ring are original to each other, but what year they are and which bike they are for are not clear.
   Thanks again.....................Wayne


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## chitown (Jan 2, 2012)

Wayne,

Thanks for amending the ad. I only brought it up here so that anyone else who knows about these might be able to shed some light on this mysterious combo as I have never seen one used on a skiptooth or one that had screws and not rivets. And the fact that the holes don't line up with the sprocket.

Chris


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## Wayne Adam (Jan 2, 2012)

*Chris...*

I added the disclaimer to my ad. I stated that although this came to me with the SK, it might not be for this bike, and that they the bidders
would probably know what it is for. I must say, that it has to be something special because since my last post to you it went up to $152.00
and there are still four days left!..................Thanks again....................Wayne


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## ratdaddy (Jan 2, 2012)

*truss rod and bracket*

sent you a pm


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## Wayne Adam (Jan 2, 2012)

*Listed the parts on Ebay*

Sorry Ratdaddy & Chris, but I listed the parts on Ebay a few days ago, you can check them out there.
 Chris, I still have the fender. It is just the one fender.
 Also, I am quite certain that the truss rods are for the 24" boy's frame. I searched pictures on Google Images and found others like it.
 Thank for the interest guys..................Wayne


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## chitown (Jan 2, 2012)

Wayne Adam said:


> ... it has to be something special because since my last post to you it went up to $152.00
> ...




Hey Wayne,  looks like a little controversy = mo money! Glad I could help with the sale 

but seriously, I hope you do get top dollar for all your items. I have come to believe that it was a modified Silver King piecrust on an older SK or Wards chain ring with post war cranks. Even if this is true those piecrust guards don't come up very often and do demand a good value, even if modified. Who knows, maybe I'm the top bidder and want to scare away others from out bidding me...

Chris

...also did you see any stampings on the cranks? That would help ID the cranks anyhow.


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## Wayne Adam (Jan 2, 2012)

*Hey Chris...*

Hi Chris,
   The ID markings on the crank are M 36, I believe that could be Monark 1936, correct?. It also fits the Chainring perfectly.
Let me know what you think.......................Wayne


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## fordsnake (Jan 2, 2012)

I have had a few of these SILVER KING piecrust guards (see pics). They are attached to the "paisley" chainring with 6 rivets! Sadly, it looks like the 6 nodules on your guard have been shaved off, thus making it impossible to align your guard to the 6 holes on a SK chainring.


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## fordsnake (Jan 2, 2012)

I didn't notice it before but the photo of the back side of the chainring (on your eBay listing) clearly shows that it's a "sweetheart" design! I may be wrong, but I'm sure that's not a Monark SK design?


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## jpromo (Jan 2, 2012)

fordsnake said:


> I didn't notice it before but the photo of the back side of the chainring (on your eBay listing) clearly shows that it's a "sweetheart" design! I may be wrong, but I'm sure that's not a Monark SK design?




It is indeed an original chainring; though, it was a first year only feature for 1935. Only year for skiptooth too.

The jury is still out on the chainguard though. It just seems too perfectly frilled around the edge to be homemade.. maybe an early factory attempt at getting it right for the '36 model, only to get changed later when they moved to the 1/2" paisley? No clue!


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## Wayne Adam (Jan 3, 2012)

*jpromo is correct*

jpromo is correct. I Googled images and I did find a couple of pictures of this chainring and it is original Monark. 
On the crank is the code M 36., but I do believe that this is a 35, and rare skip tooth. Also, I am leaning toward
the piecrust guard as being an early attempt or prototype. It is too finely constructed and refined to be "homemade"
 I also believe that it could be original to this chainring since it is perfectly centered and the machined threaded holes are perfect.
 I guess it is truely a rare piece, thus reflected in the high bids it is receiving. Leave it to me to always get the odd ball stuff!.
 Thanks for all your input everyone...................Wayne


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## chitown (Jan 3, 2012)

*Frankenguard*

The fact there are only 4 holes on a 5 hole pattern chainring is MAJOR design flaw to me. As fordsnake has said the SK one has 6 holes to match perfectly the 6 paisley pattern chain ring. The screws line up at a different point on the sweetheart design on every one. Not one matches the other. It would not take a master machinist to grind down the stubs of the chainguard mounts and make it look smooth.

Adding to the non original theory of mine is the crank that is from '36 with a chainring from a 35 year only ring. The piecrust didn't come out until '37 so why would SK designers use a sprocket that didn't work with any other of their models setups? It just doesn't make any sense. What does make sense to me is some kids may have not liked the crazy chainguard thing and tore it off damaging the original mounts? I think this one could actually be repaired and used on a Flo-Cycle or other that used this guard. So there should be some value to it, but that's if you are willing to repair and re-plate. 

I like stories of how some parts made it to some other bikes making it hard to ID them... but I also like knowing there was a legit reason for those parts to have made it to said bike. I also like the hobby to be aware of these oddball things so we can talk about them here and get some feedback from others who know about these things.


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## Wayne Adam (Jan 3, 2012)

*Forum Edicate.*

Firstly, I would like to thank jpromo and fordsnake for their input and professionalism in addressing my questions. 
On the other hand, I would like to ask Chris "chitown" why he had to be so sarcastic and condescending? The sarcasm
in your last reply to me was very unwelcome and unjustified. I thought this was a friendly forum.
   The reason why most of us post questions on this forum is because we don't have the answers. Yes Chris, I am certain that you know way more than I do about
Monark and many other bicycles, and that is good for you. We all have different fields of expertise, and if I have the answers to someones question
I would be happy to convey my message to them in a civil manner. Anyway, thanks again to all.

Below you will find the revised copy I added to my Ebay ad about the this part. If anyone thinks there is something wrong with this, please contact me.Thanks, Wayne
_______________________________________________________________________________

After some controvercy, it appears that this is the deal...

 The chainring is apparently a 1935 one year only for the Monark skip tooth.

 The crank is a 1936 Monark, which is not unusual to appear matched up to the '35 chainring.

 And finally, the piecrust guard is a modified 1937 or newer, that someone added to the chainring.

So, There you have it, bid or don't bid, whatever, the choice is yours................Thanks.


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## chitown (Jan 3, 2012)

Sorry Wayne for sounding sarcastic or condescending. This was not my intention. But after reading that you stated you were leaning towards it being a prototype, I wanted to have you lean the other way. As I stated earlier, I appreciate you amending your ad... and you should understand that that is a genuine appreciation. Not many people step up and do that sort of thing these days. I don't believe that you in anyway are trying to be deceptive or mislead any potential buyers.

Good luck again with the sale and hope all turns out well in the end.


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## Wayne Adam (Jan 3, 2012)

*Thanks Chris,*

Thank you Chris..........Wayne


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