# Asking for a friend, what’s this?



## rusty_apache (Oct 13, 2020)

Trying to help another Essex owner out, in identifying his bicycle.
He’s away from it, and unable to take more photographs for the time being.

Thanks much!


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## bentwoody66 (Oct 13, 2020)

If that not a Miami product I dont know what is!

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## bricycle (Oct 13, 2020)

a Crown maybe


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## bentwoody66 (Oct 13, 2020)

bricycle said:


> a Crown maybe



I dont think Great Westerns had the fat fender supports and no chain adjusters.

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## bricycle (Oct 13, 2020)

Hudson?


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## rusty_apache (Oct 13, 2020)

bentwoody66 said:


> I dont think Great Westerns had the fat fender supports and no chain adjusters.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk




Here’s part of the badge shadow, screws north and south.


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## bentwoody66 (Oct 13, 2020)

It could be a Miami frame with the bottom parallel bar being added at a later date. I cant find any picture that show the bar joining in that position.

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## bentwoody66 (Oct 13, 2020)

That fork is Miami

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## rusty_apache (Oct 13, 2020)

bricycle said:


> Hudson?



That would be cool, because I know him through the Hudson Essex Terraplane club!


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## bentwoody66 (Oct 13, 2020)

If I could see better pics of the frame joints on that bottom bar I could be 100% sure.

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## rusty_apache (Oct 13, 2020)

bentwoody66 said:


> That fork is Miami
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk





... and bent!

I’m sure he will add photos this weekend. 
What about a ballpark in the date of manufacture?


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## bentwoody66 (Oct 13, 2020)

Pre 1916 I think. Dont know exactly when they went from parallel bars to motorbike style with the top tube bent down. 

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## bentwoody66 (Oct 13, 2020)

Badge?




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## rusty_apache (Oct 14, 2020)

bentwoody66 said:


> Badge?View attachment 1283839
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



If That is yours, he might be interested in it.


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## rollfaster (Oct 14, 2020)

@hoofhearted


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## bentwoody66 (Oct 14, 2020)

rusty_apache said:


> If That is yours, he might be interested in it.



Not mine unfortunately 

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## hoofhearted (Oct 14, 2020)

rollfaster said:


> @hoofhearted




To get a better understanding of what we may
be looking at ... go to the pre-1933 forum and
punch the ''Anyone here own a Miami / Flying
Merkel bicycle ?'' thread.  Currently 41 pages.

So much to see -- what with variations on most
every part of the frames ... as years go by.

The under-bar *may* be a factory customization ...
flush-brazed, fore and aft.  No seat-mast sleeve ...
and, no trumpet-mouth join at the fore-end.

And what about the fender-bridges ?

Consider the image below ... are these bridges
1912 - 1917 ... or 1918 - 19xx ?






*41 Pages ??

A failure to commit image to memory .. positions us to do research, repeatedly.*

*..... patric*


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## bentwoody66 (Oct 14, 2020)

rusty_apache said:


> Here’s part of the badge shadow, screws north and south.
> 
> View attachment 1283831



I need one of these fenders!!!!!!

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## Archie Sturmer (Oct 14, 2020)

The chain ring sprocket with a 6-point star looks like an Excelsior from perhaps later?


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## szathmarig (Oct 15, 2020)

I have the same chain ring on a Miami made bike.


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## szathmarig (Oct 15, 2020)

More pics.


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## rusty_apache (Oct 15, 2020)

Thanks for all the replies and invaluable information.
He’ll be pleased to know this.


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## rusty_apache (Oct 15, 2020)

hoofhearted said:


> To get a better understanding of what we may
> be looking at ... go to the pre-1933 forum and
> punch the ''Anyone here own a Miami / Flying
> Merkel bicycle ?'' thread.  Currently 41 pages.
> ...




Thanks for the information.
He’s going to take more photos when he returns to the bike.


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## Archie Sturmer (Oct 15, 2020)

szathmarig said:


> I have the same chain ring on a Miami made bike.
> 
> View attachment 1284405
> 
> View attachment 1284406



The chain ring sprocket on the Mead diamond frame does not look exactly the same, if one measures the offset distance of the drive pin.  The wider 2” offset reminds me of Emblem Angola crank and chain ring sprocket.  Not sure if Emblem built Meads.

On 2nd look, the original post chain ring sprocket looks like an A&S Henderson, with the drive pin in between 2 of the points of the 6-points star.  (Hard to see; must have been in denial about clearly seeing only 3 bumps versus 4).


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## rusty_apache (Oct 18, 2020)

Okay, he took more photos.


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## rusty_apache (Oct 18, 2020)

Hopefully these will offer more clues...

I mentioned it to him that the seat suspension was probably correct and that you guys might know what seat Miami may have used in that era. 
I also suggested that he clean the paint off with oven cleaner. 
He really appreciates the advice, thanks!


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## rusty_apache (Oct 18, 2020)

Looks like a partial Brooks saddle to me.....


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## oddball (Oct 19, 2020)

That front fender sure looks Pope early Westfield


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## BatWaves (Nov 12, 2020)

bentwoody66 said:


> The chain ring sprocket on the Mead diamond frame does not look exactly the same, if one measures the offset distance of the drive pin.  The wider 2” offset reminds me of Emblem Angola crank and chain ring sprocket.  Not sure if Emblem built Meads.





Archie Sturmer said:


> On 2nd look, the original post chain ring sprocket looks like an A&S Henderson, with the drive pin in between 2 of the points of the 6-points star.  (Hard to see; must have been in denial about clearly seeing only 3 bumps versus 4).






1917 Michigan City Excelsior


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## szathmarig (Nov 13, 2020)

Miami made bike for sure. (Thick fender bridge with trumpet mouth.)The saddle is not Brooks, it's a Troxel Eagle


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## Archie Sturmer (Nov 13, 2020)

I believe that E.C.Simmons hardware stores sold Miami-made bikes at one time, and also used the vertical badge holes. Simmons even had a diamond shaped badge; (perhaps what gave the painter the idea for the head tube accent detail).


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## BatWaves (Nov 14, 2020)

Archie Sturmer said:


> I believe that E.C.Simmons hardware stores sold Miami-made bikes at one time, and also used the vertical badge holes. Simmons even had a diamond shaped badge; (perhaps what gave the painter the idea for the head tube accent detail).
> 
> View attachment 1300723



Whoa... this may have solved a mystery for me on an ol’ track bike I have laying around. What’s wild, is there isn’t a post between the rear chainstays down near the bottom bracket. Do you own this badge?


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## Archie Sturmer (Nov 14, 2020)

H.P. Snyder (among others) may have also used diamond-shape badges?


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## redline1968 (Nov 14, 2020)

A transition frame (1921 or later)when badges started appearing on the miami frames and darts were applied. Westfield used up old miami frames in their purchase of the miami company ...2 pics of my flying merkel ..


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## oldmtrcyc (Jan 1, 2021)

In the media section, @catfish downloaded a schwinn catalog... https://thecabe.com/forum/media/albums/1917-schwinn-catalog.2590/


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## oldmtrcyc (Jan 1, 2021)

rusty_apache said:


> Looks like a partial Brooks saddle to me.....
> 
> View attachment 1286946



Looks Troxel to me


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