# Racycle Tri-Spring Fork



## fordsnake (Oct 16, 2013)

The three spring cushioned fork was introduced earlier then first thought.  It appears it was first offered in 1907 on the Racycle motor and the pedal driven bikes.


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## fattommy (Oct 17, 2013)

fordsnake said:


> The three spring cushioned fork was introduced earlier then first thought.  It appears it was first offered in 1907 on the Racycle motor and the pedal driven bikes.




Oh Man!  Years ago I missed buying a Racycle with that fork- How I WISH I'd done it.  Then a couple weeks ago one of those forks sold on EEEEbay.  I bid a little too low and it sold for something like $426? around there.  Just wanted to cuddle it.  The design is so cool.
http://p2.la-img.com/1122/21257/7272322_9_l.jpg


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## bricycle (Oct 17, 2013)

Thanks Carlton for the info....kool.


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## cds2323 (Oct 17, 2013)

Thanks Fordsnake,  info threads are what I like about the CABE. Suspension forks have always interested me. 

Chris


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## Freqman1 (Oct 18, 2013)

Looks like some inspiration for a RRB to me! V/r Shawn


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## fordsnake (Oct 18, 2013)

Freqman1 said:


> Looks like some inspiration for a RRB to me! V/r Shawn




I've been marinating the idea


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Oct 18, 2013)

I would love to have this Racycle fork.


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## bricycle (Oct 18, 2013)

nice, but I like the tri-spring a bit more.


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## fordsnake (Oct 18, 2013)

Here's another cool Racycle fork...I always thought it was an Iver Johnson?


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## bricycle (Oct 18, 2013)

Now that I like!  Did you see the one on the bay a week or two ago?


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Oct 18, 2013)

I stand corrected.
I'm learning a lot here.
I always thought it was an Iver Johnson fork, as well.
Here is an Iver Johnson fork. Does anyone have a photo of this fork.
I would like to make this fork.


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## fordsnake (Oct 18, 2013)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> I'm learning a lot here. I always thought it was an Iver Johnson fork, as well.




Yeah, you and I both...it looks like there are some unique differences?


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## fordsnake (Oct 18, 2013)

bricycle said:


> Did you see the one on the bay a week or two ago?




See post #197, http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthr...ng-IJ-bicycles I'm sure it was the one that was recently on eBay?


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## bricycle (Oct 18, 2013)

fordsnake said:


> See post #197, http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthr...ng-IJ-bicycles I'm sure it was the one that was recently on eBay?




Yup, that's it... wow 5 weeks ago? seems like yesterday.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Oct 18, 2013)

The link doesn't work for me. It goes to a page that reads does not exist.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Oct 18, 2013)

Looks like Iver Johnson offered more than just Miami Bicycle Company's Musselman coaster brakes.
Could it be that they gave up making their spring fork for the less complicated Miami Bicycle Co.Spring fork?
Or could it be that they were infringing on their patent?


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## Gary Mc (Oct 18, 2013)

*Fork in Post #9........*

was also used by Iver Johnson.


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## chitown (Oct 18, 2013)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> Looks like Iver Johnson offered more than just Miami Bicycle Company's Musselman coaster brakes.
> Could it be that they gave up making their spring fork for the less complicated Miami Bicycle Co.Spring fork?
> Or could it be that they were infringing on their patent?




Which patent? Pierce had a leaf spring design in 1898:





Here is a later version.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Oct 18, 2013)

It's a mystery to me.
Will the real inventor of the spring fork please stand up?


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## Wcben (Oct 18, 2013)

Thanks Giovanni!  

Has anyone else seen another fork similar to mine, (#7)....I've asked before both here and on the WM... no one has said that they have....it's definitely Racycle because the crown matches the older Racycle single leaf forks like the one on Blue's Pacemaker seen here:.. 




Mine is definitely different though.....she's a 1903....


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Oct 18, 2013)

Wow!
That's very nice!


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## fordsnake (Oct 18, 2013)

And in 1907 you could buy an after market springer to attach to your fork.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Oct 18, 2013)

Amazing spring fork!


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## fordsnake (Oct 18, 2013)

This 1907 article suggests Racycle offered both spring forks. When was the Iver Johnson fork introduced?


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Oct 18, 2013)

Interesting history.


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## Wcben (Oct 19, 2013)

Here you go.... I knew I had seen it on here, just took awhile to find it!  The patent for the Racycle dual leaf:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=x6NmAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&dq=876021&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q=876021&f=false


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## Wcben (Oct 19, 2013)

Patent searching can be very informative, it appears that Mr Schenck was also the filer for the triple spring fork:


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Oct 19, 2013)

Very accurate patent drawings.
The drawings could be converted to 3-D CAD drawings if there were measurements.


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## fordsnake (Oct 19, 2013)

Even more interesting, Mr Schenck applied for patents on the same date March 18, 1907 for both designs.


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## Wcben (Oct 19, 2013)

I'd also found a patent for Racycles "New, Improved Crank Hanger" dated to 1906 (file date) while it had actually been being sold since 1904!


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Oct 19, 2013)

I'm wondering if Iver Johnson was sued by Miami Bicycle for stating in their catalog brochure that they make the spring fork or did they merely pay for the right to manufacture the fork?


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## Wcben (Oct 19, 2013)

Considering Miami's manufacturing capabilities, they probably made it for IJ.... Would probably be much more cost effective than two sets of tools....


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## fordsnake (Oct 19, 2013)

Wcben said:


> I'd also found a patent for Racycles "New, Improved Crank Hanger" dated to 1906 (file date) while it had actually been being sold since 1904!




Yeah, many items are produced well before a patent is received...patent applied. I'm no lawyer, but I believe an idea isn't proprietary until the patent is approved. Once the patent is received and acknowledged the patentee can request a cease and desists of all infringements or they can negotiate a royalty from the competition on their manufactured units.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Oct 19, 2013)

Once a product is sold to the public, without a patent, it becomes public domain and the manufacturer cannot be forced to stop.


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## Gary Mc (Oct 19, 2013)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> Once a product is sold to the public, without a patent, it becomes public domain and the manufacturer cannot be forced to stop.




Don't know about the law works now but at the turn of the century they went by when the patent was filed.  It was not uncommon for patents to take 1-10 years to be approved.  After approval, the manufacturers could force cease & desist orders and often did.  Patent lawsuits often dragged on for years.  Case in point are some late 1890s/early 1900's patents filed by New Departure that were not approved until around 1907.  The approval allowed ND to sue numerous manufacturers making similar coaster brake hubs to cease & desist putting a number of them essentially out of business.  The reasons these dragged on were often defending lawsuits over who actually filed first.  So during these times it was based on patent filing date after approval not the patent approval date.


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## fordsnake (Oct 19, 2013)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> Once a product is sold to the public, without a patent, it becomes public domain and the manufacturer cannot be forced to stop.




A product maybe sold to the public, once the patent application has been filed...you can stamp your products and marketing material as "Patent Pending."


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## Wcben (Oct 19, 2013)

Sagers patent for his springer: https://www.google.com/patents/US84...&sa=X&ei=MNJiUvnUNY_y8AT3s4Eo&ved=0CGUQ6AEwCQ


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Oct 19, 2013)

Can anyone post the drawings?
It doesn't open for me and for some reason it takes a wizard to always download Google images.


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## Wcben (Oct 19, 2013)

I'll be able to post them for you.... I'm busy tonight but I'll work on them.


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## Andrew Gorman (Oct 19, 2013)

Bicycle, and any other patents were a free-for-all in the 19th Century. It's pretty interesting to read about, as well as some of the wacky concepts patented.  In 30 years of intense litigation, Pierre Lallement's patent on the crank operated velocipede held supreme in the hands of Calvin Witty and Col. Pope.  If Michaux had a glimmer of a claim it would have been exploited in at least hundreds of cases.  I ran across this book a while ago- available for free on google books:
CYCLING ART, ENERGY, AND LOCOMOTION By ROBERT P. SCOTT
The author was a well known inventor of an apple peeler, and he has some dryly humorous asides on the patent and lawsuit process.  He goes over a LOT of the more bizarre bike pants in detail.   Also he was one of the first to actually instrument bikes and riders to see what was really going on with the biomechanics.  A good read for a bike geek!


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## fordsnake (Oct 19, 2013)

Here's an interesting excerpt from an online business blog; A patent is only as good as your ability to fight for it. The patent office does not help you, except to provide a service to prove that you patented your device on a particular date. You fight your opponent in court at your own expense. Your chance of winning is not assured because there are many slippery ways around the patent laws.

So you may have paid lots of money getting a patent, set your marketing back several years because of secrecy and STILL not be able to prevent competition. In fact, you spend even more money (and time) trying to defend the undefendable.

Patents are an exceptionally bad idea for innovators with limited funds. Often Patents are 'stolen' and used without the innovators concent because the thief knows that the innovator does not have the money to take them to court.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Oct 19, 2013)

So true about that!


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## fordsnake (Oct 20, 2013)

Here's an interesting excerpt that illustrates a predatory strategy; apparently Mr. W.E. Smith lost his patent control to the unscrupulous Pope Mfg, because Smith didn't separately patented his idea in every country, therefore losing privileges and compensation. Enforcing a patent takes a lot of moola!


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## Wcben (Oct 20, 2013)

Here's Sager's:


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Oct 20, 2013)

Thanks for posting.


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## fordsnake (Oct 20, 2013)

Wcben said:


> Here's Sager's:
> 
> View attachment 118838




And here's another Sager fork design


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## Larmo63 (Oct 21, 2013)

Blue Nelson has an early Racycle springer fork that is only one single leaf spring

on either side. He took it out for it's initial ride after plating, etc., and it snapped! 

His Iver has that double fork on it; the bike that was supposedly displayed in the

lobby of the Iver Johnson company. (Complete nickel frame and fork)

Was/is the fork that Fordsnake displayed at the start of this thread the same one that 

was on eBay? I wonder(ed) who won that piece? I was in the bidding, but it went a bit 

high. (for me)


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