# Westfield Frame Numbers 1933 - 1945



## Mercian (Nov 25, 2016)

Dear All,

I have posted a Westfield frame number/date list from 1939 to 1945 in the Military Bicycles section:

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-frame-numbers-1939-1945.100742/

This is just a first draft, so I would welcome any further Westfield frame types/codes/numbers that expand the information already there, and push known dates back from 1939, and forward from 1945.

Thank you for your help.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Bozman (Nov 25, 2016)

Adrian, I have some more bikes to add to your list soon.  

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## rollfaster (Nov 25, 2016)

Here's a 42 Westfield number for you.


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## bikewhorder (Nov 25, 2016)

I thought Mr Columbia's site had this info all sorted out?


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## Mercian (Nov 26, 2016)

Hi All

Thanks for your replies so far. Bozman, I look forward to your contributions, Rollfaster, thanks for the image, I've had difficulty finding earlier bikes, and this will help sort that out.

Bikewhorder, Mr. Columbia's site contains an excellent listing of frame numbers by year, and I certainly couldn't have started this without that help, and the frame numbers he subsequently supplied, which I acknowledge in my post.

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/DDB9/production/_92616765_heinz1.jpg

Where I came in here is that I recently bought a G519 Westfield Columbia (MG154118 / K8) missing a lot of parts. From Mr. Columbia's list I could see it was late 1943, but nothing more. Liberator has a page dedicated to these bikes, and from there I learned that 1943 saw a lot of detail changes, so I became interested in understanding when these occurred by frame number.

http://www.theliberator.be/militarybicycles.htm

From the internet, and later from people here, I recorded various details (S/N, BB/N, frame type, Eclipse hub code, chainwheel type etc.), and will be putting out a table of these details for Westfield G519 shortly (the Huffman Dayton one I compiled at the same time is already on the CABE here

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/huffman-dayton-g519-frame-numbers.100336/

Mr Columbia said on his site about the BB numbers between 1936 and 1945:

_This starts serial numbers being stamped on frame under crank hanger. The letter preceding the serial number indicates year of manufacture. Often there will be a separate letter with 1 number near or above the serial number. The meaning of this is not fully understood but all evidence to this time indicates that this has nothing to do with the year of manufacture and the serial number. Best guess is this was a part number of the crank hanger forging itself for factory use to identify the part before it was brazed or welded onto the frame._

I recorded the '_separate letter with 1 number near or above the serial number._' and soon realised that there was a pattern that showed these to be a separate year/month code for the production of the frame. I also saw that this system applied to all Westfields at this time. I had more examples to hand, and an interest in that specific dating problem which allowed me to make the link not available to Mr. Columbia.

The final breakthrough came during this CABE conversation on Westfield Compax:

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1944-columbia-compax-military-model-folding-bicycle.99850/

This allowed me to collect numbers for other frame types (and showed people were interested!). It allows year /month dating of the frame production, and has also given an insight into production techniques (Work in Hand, when the final serials were stamped) and shown that, probably due to the complexities of Wartime production, the prefix to the main serial number is not as straightforward as you might think, with, for example, the prefix W appearing in addition to MC, MG, G etc. This is still only a fraction of 1% of all Westfields produced at the time, so there could be other codes out there too.

I hope that helps explain what I'm tying to do.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Mercian (Nov 28, 2016)

Hi All,

Rollfaster, I've added your number to the table for the next version. Could you tell me what type of bicycle (mens/womens, or better still, the actual model) it is please?

As promised above, Boz has sent a significant list of numbers that he has recorded, so I hope to get version two of this list out soon, incorporating these additions. Thank you for your help.

If you have other details to add, please contact me, the table becomes more useful with the more information that can be included.

As a special request, has anyone got details of a genuine MF military Columbia?

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## rollfaster (Nov 28, 2016)

Sure, it's a Westfield built 42 wartime boys Elgin.


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## Mercian (Dec 2, 2016)

Hi All,

In case it's of interest, I have just posted Version 1 of the G519 Westfield Columbia list in the Military Section.

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-columbia-g519-frame-numbers.101109/

The G519 Huffman Dayton list is here:

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/huffman-dayton-g519-frame-numbers.100336/

There are around 70 bikes on the Westfield G519 list. I am still working through an extended list of 1935-1945 Westfields (currently around 150 bikes) which will be published here shortly.

If you have any comments, please make them below, or by PM.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Buster1 (Dec 4, 2016)

Here's a link to my '41 Westfield. SN: 4H F86189

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1941-westfield-restoration-complete.34586/


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## Mercian (Dec 4, 2016)

Hi Buster1,

Thanks, it's on the list (-:

I now have around 200 sets of bike details, from 1932 to 1945. These have (mainly) been gleaned from the CABE with the search terms 'Westfield 1945', Westfield 1944' etc. I'm sure if I do a second run using 'Westfield '45' etc,; and a third using 'Elgin 1945' etc. I'll pull up more, but I think I'll get to the end of the first search (it's a lot of work), publish it, and see if the response merits further time.

I should complete the first run this week, then a little tidying of the table into a good format before putting it here.

Thanks, as ever, to those who have helped so far.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Mercian (Dec 8, 2016)

Dear All,

Please find below Version 1 of a listing of known serial numbers and details of around 200 Westfields built between 1933 and 1945.

This has come from several sources, with various CABE members kindly supplying lists of their own, for which I thank them, as well as my own internet searches here and elsewhere.

The searches on CABE were mainly carried out using the Keywords ‘Columbia 1933’, ‘Columbia 1934’ etc., between 1933 and 1945. I estimate this led to me reading around 1000 topics, and 5000 e-mails for this first list. When I’ve recovered (!), I may go back and search again with other keywords (Elgin, Bluebird etc.). This could explain why your bike is not here if you look for it. If it is not here, or if it is, and you can supply further details, then please let me know here or by PM for a Version 2 list.

Since this is a Version 1, it is not perfect, and is here for corrections and additions to be made. I am not an expert in Westfields, you have (luckily!) Mr. Columbia for that. I was more interested in the frame and BB numbers for dating, but it made sense to collect the other information at the same time.

Types of bicycle are described as accurately as I can from the text, if you have a better identification, again, let me know.

Similarly, I know there are ‘collector’s terms’ for some of the different types of chainwheel. Where I know what these are, I have used them, otherwise they are my own description. Let me know, and I will happily change them to the accepted form.

Where I have not been able to verify information (even if I could guess what it was) then I have put N/K for not known. I hope you will fill in some of these spaces.

BB Codes; These appear to be year/month dating codes for the production of the frame.

A = 1934

B = 1935

C = 1936

D = 1937

E = 1938

F = 1939

G = 1940

H = 1941

I = Not Used

J = 1942

K = 1943

L = 1944

With the number 1 to 12 following indicating the month.

They start at A in 1934, and end in December 1944with some of these frames being built up in early 1945. I have not yet found an ‘A1’, but it may not exist, there is no reason to suppose they started the year with this coding system. But I would love to see one.

When placed in serial number order, the BB codes sometimes dart around a bit, but generally increase. This is probably due to the frames being held in stock after manufacture, then the serial number being stamped on when they started to be built up, from conversation with Mr. Columbia, just before the frame was painted. This is most obvious at year ends, where frames coded, for example L12 (December 1944) have early 1945 serial numbers.

The Prefix letter originally started out as a dating letter (L = 1933, etc.) but during wartime production this was not strictly adhered to, probably to help identify different customers or contracts. In 1943, which should have been prefix G, we see MG, MC, and W (and possibly others, yet to be identified due to the small sample here). The BB numbers remain constant through this period helping to accurately date the frames with unusual serial number.

I hope this is of some use to you.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## MrColumbia (Dec 9, 2016)

Great work! This should prove to be a valuable resource for the identification of war year Westfield's.


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## Buster1 (Dec 9, 2016)

Yes, very cool


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## jawa kaw (Jan 5, 2017)

very nice information you have here, i own 2 westfields and these inputs are of a great help to identify what year model it was created.


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## Robertriley (Nov 4, 2018)

I wish I saw this before now and I would of added a bunch to you.  I will see what I can come up with for you to add.  Good stuff, thank you.


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## Krakatoa (Nov 4, 2018)

Super Cool Adrian!


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## Mercian (Nov 5, 2018)

Robertriley said:


> I wish I saw this before now and I would of added a bunch to you.  I will see what I can come up with for you to add.  Good stuff, thank you.




Hi Chris, it was a deep dark days of winter job. Since we are approaching that time again, if you do have any info you'd like to share, then it's a good time to send it through. It'll prompt me to make an updated version (-:

Krakatoa, Merci!

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Robertriley (Nov 5, 2018)

..


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## catfish (Nov 5, 2018)

Thank you very much for this info! Great stuff !!!


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## Demzie (Nov 20, 2018)

I've got some to add for you.
I'm told by the MrColumbia it's a '45.
It's got the Coffin Sprocket I believe to be Original. Here's a photo only the Frame, Fork and Crankset are original to my knowledge. The frame and forks absolutely. (OG paint)

Serial Number: #J19363

(The "1" sort of stamped like an capitol "i")


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## Mercian (Nov 21, 2018)

Hi @Demzie

Thanks for taking the trouble to post your number. Yes, it's a 1945, probably in the first three months.

As you can see from the list, the dating system was changing at that point, and we still don't understand what was happening in 1945. When you get the chance, could you look to see if there is a two digit code on the bottom bracket too, above the serial number? It'll may be something like 2N, or N3, or nothing at all. This all helps.

Thanks,

Best Regards,

Adrian

PS, just reread your post, yes, the chainwheel is the correct type for this period, and if it was you that fitted the blackout ND hub, that is probably what it would have had originally.


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## Demzie (Nov 21, 2018)

I did fit it myself, got lucky it was included in a package deal with the frame and forks. 

I'll be happy to take a look! 

Adrian, Do you suppose this was a wartime frame repurposed for civilian use after things settled down?

Happy Thanksgiving!

Laine


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## Mercian (Nov 21, 2018)

Hi Laine,

Thanks for checking when you do. I don't have many examples from that period, and each one helps.

it depends what you mean by wartime frame. It was probably built before April 1945 (end of the war in Europe, and certainly before Sept ember 1945 (Japanese surrender), so it is a wartime frame.

If you mean a military G519 frame, then no, it's not a left over one. There are several reasons why not, but there are two main ones.

The tube between the headtube and bottom bearing is curved. A few very early military bikes used curved tubes, because they were civilian frames. After this early production, the frames were simplified so late military bikes had a straight tube here, so that is what a 'left over at the end of production' frame would have had.

The welds at the end of the tubes appear to be very neat. This is because they are brazed with brass, the standard pre and post war process.  Most military bikes were produced when there was a shortage of brass, so the ends of the tubes are gas welded, and look rough. I have also read this makes the frames a little stronger, but have no actual evidence for this.

Finally, a guess. If  the date code was before L2 (last known production military bike), then it could be a possibility, but I'm guessing it's later than that.

If I've missed the point of the question, please ask again (-:

Happy Thanksgiving too.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## danfitz1 (Nov 21, 2018)

My Westfield is *F182628 and the code stamped above the frame number is *H8


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## Mercian (Nov 21, 2018)

Hi Danfitz1

Thanks for letting me know. F182628 with a code stamp H8 is a frame made in August1941.

Happy Thanksgiving,

Adrian


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## 66TigerCat (Nov 30, 2018)

Adrian,

My serial # is B 132304 with a D 1 stamped above it. Thanks for posting the info. Very helpful.


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## manuel rivera (Nov 30, 2018)

April 37?


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## Mercian (Nov 30, 2018)

Hi 66TigerCat,

Good to talk with you, as ever (-:

Thanks for showing your Westfield. D1 is a frame made in January 1937, with the bike being assembled shortly after. From the current number list, they were building Bluebirds at the same time (-: 

1937 was a poor year for bike sales, so they were rare even then, and it's nice to see one in good condition like yours.


Hi Manuel Rivera. D = 1937, 1 = January, so the frame was made then, but you may be close with an assembly date.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## 66TigerCat (Nov 30, 2018)

Thanks for the info Adrian. Much appreciated.


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## manuel rivera (Nov 30, 2018)

Nice Elgin,  thanks for the info Adrian. I'm learning from the pros.


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## bobbystillz (Apr 13, 2019)

Here's one for the list... J 39778 (?)
Westfield frame, with custom paint job done in early to mid '50s. Badge is not correct, so don't know the brand. 4 Lima bean chain wheel (24t).










This was the bike before I got it. It had been parted, so I only got the frame, guard, bars, and crank assembly.


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## Mercian (Apr 15, 2019)

Hi bobbystillz,

Thanks, an interesting bike. Could you confirm that the overcode above the serial number is N3?

J39778, N3 was probably made March 1945. It was still using at least some wartime spec. "Blackout" parts, you can see the blackout paint on the back of the chainring.

N3 was possibly the last dating overcode used by Westfield before they stopped this system, and this is the latest survivor yet known with it stamped on, so very useful for my tables.

This 'Spitfire' badged Westfield comes just after yours, so may be an appropriate badge to look for.

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/civilian-wartime-spitfire.81388/ 

I am currently updating the original tables, I already have 100 more bikes than last time, and will include this one. I will publish them here when finished.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## bobbystillz (Apr 15, 2019)

Mercian said:


> Hi bobbystillz,
> 
> Thanks, an interesting bike. Could you confirm that the overcode above the serial number is N3?
> 
> ...




I do not see an N3 stamped anywhere,  but it does have blackout parts (original owner tried to buff off the black). I actually have that badge, and my bike looks very close, if not exact, to the one you've linked. It is bolted on,  so either he lost the headbadge screws after when he painted it, or it doesn't belong on this year frame?

Thanks for the info Adrian!


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## Mercian (Apr 15, 2019)

Hi Again,

That's excellent news on the badge. I understand from comments on the other link that it's an unusual badge for a Westfield, so I think the coincidence is too great that someone would put it on by chance. i think it's likely that it's the original badge, which would mean that your bike originally resembled the one in the link (note, he thinks the three speed was not original to his bike). And yes, oversize screws.

It's funny how you can convince yourself you see something in a picture. I'm was sure I could see N3 (widely separated) towards the top of the BB in your photo. OK, so if it's not there, then yours is the first recorded without this dating system, which is equally useful to know. It would still be March-April 1945.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## bobbystillz (Apr 15, 2019)

Mercian said:


> Hi Again,
> 
> That's excellent news on the badge. I understand from comments on the other link that it's an unusual badge for a Westfield, so I think the coincidence is too great that someone would put it on by chance. i think it's likely that it's the original badge, which would mean that your bike originally resembled the one in the link (note, he thinks the three speed was not original to his bike). And yes, oversize screws.
> 
> ...



I will double check. Could be covered in paint and really faint.


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## 3-speeder (Apr 20, 2019)

Hey Adrian what do you make of this one? Looks like they started to stamp it at one point and then added a complete stamp at another point. Have you seen one like this?  Thanks for your thoughts, Bob


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## Mercian (Apr 20, 2019)

Hi Bob,

Thanks, that one is out of the ordinary (-:

H12 is easy, the frame was made December 1941. 

G53878 is the 'actual' serial number, when the bike was built up, around April/May 1942.

This is an odd period for bike manufacture and especially for Westfield. Pearl Harbor occurred in Dec 41, and industry in the US started to go onto a war footing. Bike manufacture for civilians was suspended for a time from 3rd April 42, with sales to government agencies only from 13th May 42, and rationed civilian sales from 15th May1942.

Westfield were already fully involved in the war effort. Between February and March 42 they were building G519 military bikes, and this serial number comes after that big block of G519.

So, at a guess, the frame was made around Pearl Harbor, but put to one side for some months whilst Westfield worked through a Military contract. It was then built up as the contract ended, either just before, or just after the freeze on bicycle sales.

So, where does that leave the G3057 number? I'm not sure. You can find two numbers stamped on some Bluebird bicycles (see N131994, B10 (Oct 1935), later restamped A191718 for late 1936). I have guessed that these were unsold/demonstration/display items that were returned for refurbishment and resale. But it is a guess.

For this bike, if G3057 was an earlier serial number, it would be early 1942, which fits with the Dec 41 frame date. So, again a guess, perhaps they started building it up, it was allocated a frame number, then put to one side partially completed to build the military contract. By the time the military contract was finished, new rules said blackout parts were to be fitted, so, since the specification had changed, it was allocated a new number. As a guess, it works. 

But for two things. 

G3057 would have been an early 1942 number, except that Westfield at this time normally started at 5000, and claim to have started at G17434 in 1942, so this number shouldn't exist as a frame number.

The 3, 7 and possibly the 5 are different font to Westfield's normal font, the 3 being flat topped, in comparison to the usual round topped 3 below it; and the stem of the 7 being a different shape. So I don't think it was stamped by Westfield, although it seems to have original paint over it.

In conclusion, it's interesting, and I wish I knew the answer. Perhaps a Government serial number? (Military bikes have an M stamped in front of the serial to indicate Military). Certainly, I've never seen this before.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## 3-speeder (Apr 20, 2019)

Thanks for the info and I appreciate your thoughts on that one. Wanted to share it with you for your data base. I figured it was kind of an oddball. If you haven't seen the '39 Westfield made D98 that I posted have a look here:
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1939-westfield-built-victory-bicycles-d98-with-3-speed.143236/
Hope this helps you with your cataloging of these great machines. Bob


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## Mercian (Apr 21, 2019)

Thanks Bob, 

I'm just working through the update and searching in date order. I've not got to 1939 yet, and am pleased to see this bike, since, for some reason, there seem to be few 1939 survivors.

Other comments about the bike are on that thread.

Have a Good Weekend,

Adrian


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## tech549 (Aug 19, 2019)

Adrian here is another one I just picked up believe to be a 38 ---- serial # c97480 --- E5   Hartford badged------ thank you


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## SKPC (Aug 19, 2019)

Elgin moto......1935  # N108547- found as a lone frame covered in purple housepaint..Some pins and paint remain..    (Edit. B9, additional stamping.)


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## Brutuskend (Aug 19, 2019)

A217990
 From my Elgin Motobike.













Hubs as found were New Departure D in the rear N/D front.


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## Mercian (Aug 20, 2019)

Hi @tech549 , @SKPC  and @Brutuskend ,

Thanks for your details, it's like buses, nothing for ages, then three at once (-:

tech549, yes, a 1938. This was a bad year for Westfield sales, which is evidenced by the frame manfacturing dates being all over the place when it came to completing the bikes. Your frame was made May 1938 (E5), but the surviving bicycles I have listed preceding yours,  C87255, and following, C103097, were both E10, frames made in October 1938, so your frame was in stock for at least five months before being built up, between October and December 1938.

SKPC, a nice build from a bare frame. A 1935 bike coinciding with the start of Bluebird production Bluebird frame numbers surround this frame number. There is a May 1935 made frame about 5000 before this, so I guess yours was built up between June to late 1935. Please do you have the other code, stamped above the frame number, which would say when the frame was made? It's likely to be between B3 and B9?

Brutuskend, the frame code C10 says the frame was made October 1936, and built up before year end (a Christmas bicycle?). This too was surrounded by Bluebird and Robin serial numbers.

Again, Thanks for the help, I appreciate it. I have added them to the new lisrt for when it comes out.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## SKPC (Aug 20, 2019)

B9 it is!   Stamped by the left side chainstay.


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## Mercian (Aug 20, 2019)

SKPC said:


> B9 it is...stamped by the left chainstay..




Excellent @SKPC . Thanks for taking the trouble to look.

Frame made September 1935, and the bike built up very soon after, I doubt later than the start of November.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Joseph FINN (Aug 21, 2019)

Mercian said:


> Excellent @SKPC . Thanks for taking the trouble to look.
> 
> Frame made September 1935, and the bike built up very soon after, I doubt later than the start of November.
> 
> ...



My 39 Westfield Motorbike 











Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


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## Mercian (Aug 26, 2019)

Hi @Joseph FINN 

Nice bike. 

I'm not sure if you want me to date it. If yes, could you give me the two sets of numbers stamped on the bb, like on Brutuskend's post above.

Thanks,

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Joseph FINN (Aug 30, 2019)

Mercian said:


> Hi @Joseph FINN
> 
> Nice bike.
> 
> ...



Yes I will get #

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


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## ChiTownExPat (Sep 22, 2019)

Just picked this Elgin Lady up yesterday at a barn sale in MD. She was marked as a “1932 Elgin.”  
Frame Number is D49663 and BB is F5, so in reality it looks like she just had her 80th Birthday this past May.  I’m guessing she is a 1939 Ladies Special (or Sport)?
Thanks for everyone’s time, research, and shared posts - I’ve learned a lot in the past 24 hours.


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## piercer_99 (Sep 22, 2019)

Hi Adrian,

I don't think that we added this specimen to the list.

1941 Elgin ladies deluxe sport.

as found, original tires were shot.






After cleaning, polishing, a set of John's Chain Tread cream wall tires (still rolling on original tubes), a model and period correct Delta Winner, it's a looker.




Serial and as I recall the date code is G 10


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## Mercian (Sep 23, 2019)

Hi piercer_99,

Still a great bike. We have discussed this one (it was G10) before here:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/t...field-built-elgin-ladies-deluxe-sport.150039/

But very worthwhile checking I'd seen it, Thanks. (-:
Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Mercian (Sep 23, 2019)

Hi ChiTownExPat,



ChiTownExPat said:


> Just picked this Elgin Lady up yesterday at a barn sale in MD. She was marked as a “1932 Elgin.”
> Frame Number is D49663 and BB is F5, so in reality it looks like she just had her 80th Birthday this past May.  I’m guessing she is a 1939 Ladies Special (or Sport)?
> Thanks for everyone’s time, research, and shared posts - I’ve learned a lot in the past 24 hours.




Thanks for acknowledging the work put in by all here, it's appreciated (-:

It also helps when you supply the details that you have, in order to extend the knowledge for others, thanks again for that.

As you've figured out, Frame Number D49663 and BB F5 is a May 1939 frame, likely built up within a couple of months of that.

Bzest Regards;

Adrian


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## NLeming (Dec 26, 2019)

Very poorly spray painted exercise bike conversion.


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## Mercian (Dec 27, 2019)

Hi @NLeming ,

Thanks for the information. 

You've probably figured that the F6 indicates the frame was made June 1939, and the D58553 is also a mid 1939 number, so it was built up shortly after the frame was made.

The 8236 is not a usual Westfield stamping, so possibly related to the exercise bike conversion?

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## NLeming (Dec 27, 2019)

Thanks @Mercian 

I'm not sure on the odd stamping. The exercise bike stuff seems to be quite a bit newer than 1939.  The drop outs were bent out a little to accommodate the stand so it wasn't made for this type of frame. The strap pedals and mile counter also seem to be later.  

Any collector market for these? I bought it not knowing what it was with the intention of stripping for parts for a rusty men's frame.  Not trying to get rich just dont want to murder something old/rare in ok shape.

Thanks again


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## mrg (Dec 27, 2019)

The exercise attachment is 50/60's not worth anything except for a bike stand maybe, I had some in the box took forever to get rid of them, extra numbers probably city license or factory work bike, think I'd complete that boys frame if it's a similar year Westfield.


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## Sprockets (Jan 5, 2020)

Looking for conformation of what I have please. Numbers are F194268 and H10, thanks.


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## Mercian (Jan 8, 2020)

@Sprockets

Sorry for the delay, on Christmas holidays.

Anyway, the frame for F194268 and H10 was built October 1941, and this was the last month of production for civilian bikes before WW2.

Can you tell us more about your bike?

Thanks,

Adrian

PS, just noticed that the girls 'exercise bike' in post 53, just above yours, is the nearest survivor I have listed to your bike, only 290 after it, which in this game is damn close! I will be interested if yours is an F6 too.


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## Sprockets (Jan 12, 2020)

It is badged "Cadillac". It has a Morrow rear hub, coffin chainring, dogleg crank, Torrington stem and bars and unfortunately, only one Torrington pedal came with the bike. Strangely, the front hub is a Schwinn?. It's missing some correct parts so I'll be in search of those. None the less, I like it and think it will make a fun rider.


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## Mercian (Jan 14, 2020)

Hi Sprockets,

Yes, that looks like it will come out nicely. Thanks for putting up the pictires and extra information.

The Morrow hubs are dateable to the quarter and year of production too, so an age appropriate hub would have been made a short while before the frame. 

The date stamp is to the lower left of the makes stamp, and is a single letter with a number 1-4, these being the quarter of production. The letters and dates are:


1931
1932
1933
1934
1935
1936
1937
1938
1939
1940
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
1946
1947
1948
1949
1950
so yours could be a J or K.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Sprockets (Jan 14, 2020)

Thanks so much for the education Adrian! I'll check the date code this weekend


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## Mercian (Jan 15, 2020)

Hi Again,

I don't know what went wrong with the Morrow Letter date list, and I can't now edit it.

Let's try again....

(Uploaded incorrectly again, so edited)

Weird, the there's some formatting thing happening on upload, it sees the letters as 'bullet points, and converts them to numbers.

Thet's try this instead....

A 1931
B 1932
C 1933
D 1934
E 1935
F 1936
G 1937
H 1938
I 1939
J 1940
K 1941
L 1942
M 1943
N 1944
O 1945
P 1946
Q 1947
R 1948
S 1949
T 1950

OK, that works. (-:


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## TonyD (Mar 18, 2020)

Great job and thank you for the hard work. I have an ‘H11’ then E20428 8. 
I thought I had a 40 or a 42 Westfield but now I’m not sure if it’s a 38?












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## Mercian (Mar 18, 2020)

@TonyD , thanks for your kind words. I'm continuing to collect numbers, with a view to putting an updated list here soon. I'm at about the 350 bike mark now. Yours will be there too (-:

F204288, H11 The frame was made in November 1941, and the bike built very shortly after, probably early December 1941, just in time for Pearl Harbor. Bike production that year for F lettered bikes ended with F213132, roughly the week after. Then it gets a little complex as bicycle rationing and war production started.

Best Regards,

Adrian

PS, please could you tell me what it is badged?


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## TonyD (Mar 18, 2020)

Badged as a Westfield..! 
I really appreciate the time and all the work you have put into this project. I’ve owned this bike for years and I ride it before most anything else. I have wanted to know what I have but always got mixed info and gave up. 
Now I know...! Thank you 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mercian (Mar 18, 2020)

@TonyD , thanks again for the nice comments.

This is the latest one I have listed in 1941 before Westfield started war work. It was probably made for the Christmas 1941 rush as a present. Bicycles in the US, the month this was made, suddenly became serious again, and not childrens toys.

I'm pleased you like this one.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## TonyD (Mar 18, 2020)

I don’t know if the wheels that were on mine are original but I have a white/ cream set with black pinstripes and black hubs. I put these on when I got the bike. I didn’t know anything about this era of bikes or blackout parts. I just fell in love with the lines and patina. My road bikes have neglected since then. 
I think you deserve some more kind words so thank you again. This is very exciting for me and I do appreciate your help. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SKPC (Mar 18, 2020)

@Mercian.  Another frame for you maybe?   Found about 7 yrs ago but thought maybe later with no axle adjusters?. . Hope you can use this.


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## Mercian (Mar 18, 2020)

Hi @SKPC 

Thanks for that (-:

L283078 is a 1947 frame number. Unfortunately, they'd stopped the year/month coding for the frames by then, but we know the range that year was;

1947.……L5001 - L313474 

So, late 1947. It was a good year for bike makers, there was a surge in bike sales just post war, but this died down again as the 1950's arrived.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Mercian (Mar 18, 2020)

TonyD said:


> I don’t know if the wheels that were on mine are original but I have a white/ cream set with black pinstripes and black hubs. I put these on when I got the bike. I didn’t know anything about this era of bikes or blackout parts. I just fell in love with the lines and patina. My road bikes have neglected since then.
> I think you deserve some more kind words so thank you again. This is very exciting for me and I do appreciate your help.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




@TonyD 

For me, an interesting period too, when bikes stopped being toys for a while in the US, and became a patriotic symbol.

The war in Europe had been going since September 1939, and it was becoming obvious by 1941 that the US was likely to become more fully involved. Saving manufacturing space, fuel and rubber was considered a patriotic duty, so replacing your car with a bike was a visible symbol of this. There was a run on bike sales at exactly the point yours was made, secondhand bikes selling for more than the retail of new ones because of supply and demand.

Weeks after yours was made, the same frame shape was being sprayed olive drab, and used for the G519 military bicycles.

Whoever got this bike new would have been very pleased indeed.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## TonyD (Mar 18, 2020)

Wow, that is incredible to think about. That’s the mentality that I love and these bikes are really a vehicle- to the past. Thank you as always, you’ve been a wealth of info for me and I’m sure many others. Keeping it alive. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jorgos (May 23, 2020)

I bought this Westfield Columbia Viking bicycle near Heerenveen in the Netherlands today. Seller had this bike for around 40 years in his personal collection. He told a American soldier left the bicycle to his grandmother in 1944 near Dokkum.

They repainted it during or just after war. This is the framenumber I found.


----------



## Jorgos (May 23, 2020)

Here a few more pictures. Lot of work ahead.


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## Mercian (May 23, 2020)

Hi @Jorgos 

It's a nice, quite complete Westfield produced Viking, but memories and stories can become a little clouded over that length of time. Perhaps it was left by US troops stationed in the Netherlands after the war, as they were for several years.

L32793 is a Westfield 1947 build number, probably the first third of 1947. If you look a few posts above yours at posts 68 and 69, you can see another L 1947 bicycle with the same frame.

It is a rare bike in Europe, and would be expensive to import into Europe if you wanted one from the US today.

I hope that's not too disappointing.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## jasoncarubia (Jun 15, 2020)

Hey Adrian! Thanks for getting this thread started and moderating it! I pulled my grandfather’s Westfield Crawford Model F38677 out of the old garage and gave it a quick cleaning. It is in riding condition and I was surprised that the tires still had air in them! The seat is really good too! I have no idea what year it was made but I’m sure he’s replaced parts on it. I’d love to find an original picture of what the model looked like so I could try to restore it.


----------



## Mercian (Jun 16, 2020)

Hi @jasoncarubia 

Welcome, and thanks for your kind remarks.

Thank you also for supplying some details on your bike. Crawford was an early independant bicycle maker up to around 1900, but, during a complicated historical period for bikes in the US around 1900, the name eventually belonged to Westfield, and they seem to have used it in the 1930's to produce bikes that were similar to the standard Westfields, but with perhaps a few minor differences in equipment, paint schemes etc. I've had a quick look, and there doesn't seem to be a known copy of a Crawrd catalogue around.

F38677 was made early 1941. If you'd like an exact date, there is probably another letter/number combination above the main serial number, possibly H2 or H3. If you can tell us that, it will tie it down further.

This is the 1941 Westfield from their catalogue. Yours would have similarities, but wouldn't be the same. 





I'm guessing yours originally had no basket, did have the 'truss rods' in front of the fork, would have had a similar saddle and handlebars.
The chainguard on yours was available and used by Westfield, so could be original. The chainwheel is the first I've seen like that, so may be a replacement, or it could be specifically 'Crawford'. It's difficult to know.

Anyway, whether you decide to try to restore it to 'factory', or just clean it up and use it as your family have modified it, it's a nice bike, and there arn't that many of this type out there.

Let the CABE see what you finally do, we'll always be interested;

Best Regards,,

Adrian


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## Sarg1969 (Jul 8, 2020)

Just picked this up off Craigslist.  If I am reading the serial number right, is this a 1943? It has the black out wood pedals and off set head-badge screws. Someone swapped out the sprocket and rear wheel but I have the correct blackout crank & sprocket..  Anyone have parts for this?


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## tryder (Jul 8, 2020)

Hi,
Nice bike.  I dig the color.
I believe you are correct.  I recall an ad with an army guy calling it a "Compax Paratrooper".  
Perhaps you can find this ad if you Google it.
-T


----------



## Sarg1969 (Jul 8, 2020)

That add I believe was to market the ‘46 civilian models when they adopted the Paratrooper name head badge.


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## Mercian (Jul 9, 2020)

Hi @Sarg1969 

It's a Westfield Compax F92H.

The frame number G14144A L2 tells us the frame was made in February 1944, and it was built up into a bike at about the same time. At this point they were still building the last of the Military G519 bikes, so the nearest surviving frame number I have to yours is 53 after yours, a G519, MG14197A belonging to @blackcat 









						G519 COLUMBIA MG 14197A | Military Bicycles
					

I started the restoration of my G519 COLUMBIA MG 14197A  found in December 2004 in Normandy. Disassembly was relatively easy, on the other hand very big work on the rear part of the frame which underwent the assaults of time. Found in Normandy 2 years ago a pair of fendres WESTFIELD, redo the...




					thecabe.com
				




What appears to have happened with your bike is that a batch of frames was made in February 1942. Yours(and some others) were built up then, and then the last G519 bikes took priority. The balance of L2 dated F92H were bulit up when G519 production ended, about a couple of weeks later. 

The next surviving F92H I have listed is G15186A L2 belonging to @Bozman   (Sorry, I don't have a picture).

The next closest, I have quite a bit of detail on, G43404A; L3 belonging to @R.Wheeler 









						Compax Saved from Yard Art: Serial Number Help Request | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

Found this one out of Missoula, being sold as a table it had been made into for a wedding. I also found some very informative threads on here about them, but my serial number doesn’t seem to fit the mould (..or I was blinded by the sheer amount of information, which is possible).  Can anyone...




					thecabe.com
				




you'll see a bit more history discussion there, and what your badge looks like without the paint. Also, an idea of what parts are missing. You have most of the special parts, except the shorter chainguard (which may not have been fitted to yours anyway, difficult to know). @Krakatoa may be able to help with parts.

Yours still has a green handgrip off a Military bicycle, I have seen these fitted to Compax's in the past too.

Your frame has the extra reinforcing rods at the rear which is common to wartime versions. The intention of Westfield was to try to sell this as a Paratroop bike to the US Army and Marines, but there's no evidence this happened. The bikes were certainly bought as transport by the Army, and also by civilians. Postwar, Westfield changed the name to Paratrooper to try to use this as an advertising lever.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Sarg1969 (Jul 9, 2020)

Hey thanks for the info.  I’m thinking that the seat is not correct.  Trying to locate a Persons seat that looks like in the ads is what I have been doing.  I have the correct blackout sprocket and cranks already, just trying to track down a blackout New Departure model D wheel set then I think it will be complete for me.  I ride all mine


----------



## Sarg1969 (Jul 9, 2020)

Here’s the chain ring and crank


----------



## Sarg1969 (Jul 9, 2020)

So what would be the correct size balloon tire for the 92H? 26X2.125? And what manufacture period correct tires?


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## blackcat (Jul 9, 2020)

Hello Sarg1969;
Your F92H is superb, the chainring and crank are the good models, your rims too.
For the tires are 26x2.125,  original tire: US ROYAL MASTER CENTIPED GRIP
Regards;
Serge


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## Sarg1969 (Jul 9, 2020)

blackcat said:


> Hello Sarg1969;
> Your F92H is superb, the chainring and crank are the good models, your rims too.
> For the tires are 26x2.125,  original tire: US ROYAL MASTER CENTIPED GRIP
> Regards;
> Serge



I have to look at the rear hub to see if I can put a skip tooth cog on it.  But most likely  I will need a blackout ND model D to make it correct.


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## BenjaminKeith55 (Jul 18, 2020)

Hi yall! Just acquired this bicycle from my Grandma. My Grandpa had given it to me years and years ago. He passed away last year and I have finally picked it up. He used to tell me it was a military bike but that’s about all he would tell me. I began research thinking it could be a “Flying Markel” but I now believe it is not. It has no badge or emblems on it. Just 65414 stamped on the bottom. Can someone please help me out with this! Thank you


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## Mercian (Jul 19, 2020)

Hi @BenjaminKeith55

and Welcome.

Sorry to say it's not military, the military designs are well known, and this style isn't one of them. I hope that's not too dissapointing.

It does seem to be a Westfield bicyle. The chainwheel is one of the 'Coffin' types seen on westfields, and the font of the numbers stamped on it are also seen on Westfields.

You say it only has 65414 stamped on it. There will be a letter under the paint to the left, and that will tell you what year it was made. Here is an example with a H, which was made in 1930. If you can tell us the letter, we can tell you the date.









						Dads bike under way | Project Rides
					

On page 1 about photo 14 or 15 down; Shelby... Go here: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/sprocket-compilation-pic-heavy.41683/ Yes that is the chainring and Dad swears it was a Shelby, but had an odd name. Trying to locate the chap that may have ended up with the headbadge.




					thecabe.com
				




I hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## BenjaminKeith55 (Jul 19, 2020)

@Mercian 

Thank you for the information! No this isn’t upsetting at all. I’m just thankful to finally have this in my possession. I read through this forum before posting. I seen all the letters and things of that nature. I didn’t realize the letter was under the paint. I thought maybe this one may not have it. I will take the paint off that area and see what I can find! Thank you for the help and speedy reply!


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## BenjaminKeith55 (Jul 19, 2020)

@merican

What I have found looks to be a “L 65414” which looks to be a 1942 from the records in this forum post. Correct me if I am wrong please! I’m guessing someone repainted this bike at some point. Why does this frame differ from the frames that most of these folks have in this forum?

I’d really like to get tires on this bike, and go through the bearings and things of that nature to make this rideable. Any tips there? Thank you in advance!


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## Mercian (Jul 20, 2020)

Hi @BenjaminKeith55 

Thanks for your nice remarks, andalso for the full number of your bike.

L65414 is 1933. Your bike was built around the third quarter of 1933. 

the type of bike is referred to as a 'Camel back' because of the drop in the upper frame tube.

Westfield put several badges on these bikes. The one linked below is the closest I have recorded to yours, and this uses a Columbia badge.









						1933 Columbia? Westfield? Elgin? Yes, No, Maybe? | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

This is newbie, LuckyArt, posting his second thread.  You all have been so helpful with my first post, “late teens Indian”, that I’m ready to unveil my second “Barn Find”(really!) bike.  Once again, thanks to your incredible research, I think this is a 1933 Columbia.  One of the posts, by...




					thecabe.com
				




I also have a similar one recorded from the same year with a 'Century' badge.









						century numbers | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

Trying find out what year it is L71994 28inch wood wheels




					thecabe.com
				




Best Regards,

Adrian


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## BenjaminKeith55 (Jul 20, 2020)

@Mercian 

No kidding! 1933, wow that’s really awesome! Thank you for the information! This is fantastic to know!
As far as badges go, I do believe it could be a Columbia because the screw holes are side to side! Sure would he nice to find a badge for this bike.
Any idea what color these “camel backs” would have been painted originally?
Thank you again for all the information!


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## Freqman1 (Jul 20, 2020)

Mercian said:


> Hi @BenjaminKeith55
> 
> Thanks for your nice remarks, andalso for the full number of your bike.
> 
> ...



I beg to disagree with "Camel back" and would call this a 'Motorbike' style frame. A 'camel back' frame would not have a bar under the top tube. V/r Shawn


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## Mercian (Jul 20, 2020)

Hi Shawn, @Freqman1

OK, thanks for letting me know, and I'll modify that notation in the records I'm keeping.

Sorry for the misinformation @BenjaminKeith55 

It is actually very difficult for a newcomer (and even, like me, been around a couple of years) to spot all of the nuances of the various descriptive terms. It's a pity there isn't a glossary avaialble on site.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## BenjaminKeith55 (Jul 20, 2020)

@Freqman1 
Thank you for the additional information! So this is a “Motorbike” frame? This makes sense because I have seen some of the early “Flying Merkel” bikes and they called those motorbike frames as well. I’ll post a picture of one in this feed.

@Mercian
I agree! I wish there was even more information on these bikes. I’m thankful for the work that all of you folks have put into these bikes. Makes it much easier for someone like me to understand and follow. I am super stoked about this bike.

maybe one of you two know what these bikes would have originally been painted?


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## Freqman1 (Jul 20, 2020)

BenjaminKeith55 said:


> @Freqman1
> Thank you for the additional information! So this is a “Motorbike” frame? This makes sense because I have seen some of the early “Flying Merkel” bikes and they called those motorbike frames as well. I’ll post a picture of one in this feed.
> 
> @Mercian
> ...




A Flying Merkel is a whole different animal--here is mine. V/r Shawn


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## BenjaminKeith55 (Jul 20, 2020)

@Freqman1  beautiful bike!


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## BenjaminKeith55 (Jul 20, 2020)

What is the trick to removing the front end?


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## BenjaminKeith55 (Jul 20, 2020)

It looks like the factory color on this bike was a bright red! Why anyone would paint it dark green is beyond me! Haha


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## Freqman1 (Jul 20, 2020)

BenjaminKeith55 said:


> It looks like the factory color on this bike was a bright red! Why anyone would paint it dark green is beyond me! Haha
> 
> View attachment 1231996



For future reference you may want to consider starting a separate thread under the appropriate category e.g. “Antique Bicycles”. V/r Shawn


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## Mercian (Jul 20, 2020)

Hi @BenjaminKeith55

I was going to suggest that you may find traces of the original paint inside the bottom bearing, and/or the head tube, but if you(ve already found red, it's probably that.

For the badge, and other parts, there is a very good 'Wanted' section on site, and then there's always Ebay.

As Shawn suggests, if you start another thread as 1933 Westfield Columbia, or somesuch title in the Antique bikes section, you'll probably get help from others.

Best of Luck, 

Adrian


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## JPKelley5 (Aug 5, 2020)

Another one for the list. M60102.


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## lounging (Aug 5, 2020)

Thank you for your work Mercian!  I just picked up this super clean, mainly untouched Elgin


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## Mercian (Aug 16, 2020)

Hi @JPKelley5 , @lounging 

Sorry for the late replies, I hve been away for two weeks. Thanks for taking the time to post details of your bikes, I really appreciate it.

M60102 was made mid 1934. I can't see if it has a headbadge, but I think this would be a bike sold under the Westfield name (rather than Elgin) because of the 'Coffin' type chainwheel, which was a Westfield feature. This was the year that Westfield started to put month codes on the frames, and yours dates to just before this started. The earliest month dated one I have listed is M90245, A9, Sptember 1934, so yours would be a couple or three months before that.

F181467, H10 was Westfield produced for Sears under the Elgin brand, and was made in October 1941, so was part of the last peacetime production before WW2, It was also one of the last Westfield bikes produced for Sears, since they were starting to buy them from Murray instead.

Best Regards to both,

Adrian


----------



## Dazed & Confused (Sep 1, 2020)




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## Krakatoa (Sep 1, 2020)

H is a 1941 model


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## Mercian (Sep 2, 2020)

Hi,

Nice restoration by the way.

It is a very unusual frame number. G9241 H11. The frame was made November 1941, and technically the G indicates the bike was built in 1942. However, with Pearl Harbor in November 1941, something odd happened with the frame numbers. Westfield records that their numbers for 1941 were F5000 to F213132 and then, uniquely for Westfield, they started on the G series with G5000 to G17433 being built before the end of 1941. This bike falls into that unusual batch. I have only seen one other so far, this frame G8348 currently for sale by @mrg 









						Sold - 41 Westfield ( Columbia ? ) frame & tank | Archive (sold)
					

Another longtime project I won't get to, straight 41 Westfield built frame, Kinda sloppy ser#,s. G 8 348 ( I think it was badged as a Goodyear) with bearing cups ( fork & crank ), some original blue paint, always wanted to see what a OA bath would do for this one, tank is pretty straight, rusty...




					thecabe.com
				




 It's not known why Westfield did this, but just after Pearl Harbor, bicycle restrictions were brought in for WW2, it was probably associated with that in order to identify bicycles built under the new regulations.

Best Regards

Adrian


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## SKPC (Nov 6, 2020)

B96601  D3


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## Krakatoa (Nov 6, 2020)

SKPC said:


> B96601  D3
> View attachment 1297128
> View attachment 1297129



March '37


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## Mercian (Nov 7, 2020)

Hi @SKPC

As Krakatoa says, the frame was made in March 37. the serial number B96601 occurs after bicycles with frame dates of June 37, and before others of July 37, so I think it was built up round about June 37.

I think it's an Elgin. Below are links to two Elgins with similar build dates, and frame markings.









						Elgin? | Classic Balloon Tire Bicycles 1933-1965
					

Greetings bike guru's. I have several questions about Elgins. First I see Elgin's for sale images that are of the latter 20's and some from the mid 30's that are head badged with the appropriate slanted Elgin logo. Mine has no holes in the head where it had one and I have the factory painted...




					thecabe.com
				












						1930s Elgin | Project Rides
					

With the time passing slow i am going to start breaking down this Elgin for a cleaning and grease job ... obviously new tires and such but im going to see how a good cleaning turns out before thinking of OA bath ... i like the crusty look lol Maybe someone out there could nail down the year and...




					thecabe.com
				




Best Regards,

Adrian


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## SKPC (Nov 7, 2020)

Here is another one for prosperity....currently on e-pay.  Perhaps 1934?(edit:no)  Just_ Love_ the stem.


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## Mercian (Nov 7, 2020)

@SKPC 

Thanks for taking the trouble to transfer the pictures, another for the list. (-:

A248694, C11. Frame made November 1936, and the bike certainly built up in December 1936.

A266083 was the last Westfield produced bike that year, a good one for Westfield sales.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## jhroof (Feb 28, 2021)

My mom recently passed away and this is her bike from when she was a little girl.  She wanted to donate it to a museum...  I am just trying to find out something about it.  Serial number N144062.  Frame manufacture date B10.  Looks like it was built in Nov-Dec of 1935?  Any idea of what it is worth?


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## Archie Sturmer (Feb 28, 2021)

jhroof said:


> My mom recently passed away and this is her bike from when she was a little girl.  *1935*.  Any idea of what it is worth?



Looks like it might clean up well, perhaps there might be chrome and maroon paint underneath the navy blue and aluminum.  With new *tires* and *tubes*, and a little bit of fork _*straightening*_, the bicycle may be refurbished into a nice FLA. beach cruiser.
Worth the cost of economy tires & tubes, and labor, and misc.(?) — maybe, but maybe not.


----------



## jhroof (Feb 28, 2021)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Looks like it might clean up well, perhaps there might be chrome and maroon paint underneath the navy blue and aluminum.  With new *tires* and *tubes*, and a little bit of fork _*straightening*_, the bicycle may be refurbished into a nice FLA. beach cruiser.
> Worth the cost of economy tires & tubes, and labor, and misc.(?) — maybe, but maybe not.



I didn't realize that the front fork is bent, but I think you are right.  The front fender rubs the frame when turning.


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## Mercian (Mar 1, 2021)

Hi @jhroof 

Thanks for supplying the details.

You are correct, N1440623, B10's frame was made in October 1935, so probably built up then or shortly after. Westfield at this point was in full swing making Elgin Bluebirds, and your serial number is surrounded by them. 

I can only find a oouple of later Women's Westfield Sterlings, the links are below to give you a rough idea of what it looked like originally, , but they are not quite the same as yours.

1940: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/the-sterling-what-is-it.181336/

1941: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/sold-survivor-og-1941-ladies-westfield-sterling.39367/

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Freqman1 (Mar 1, 2021)

jhroof said:


> My mom recently passed away and this is her bike from when she was a little girl.  She wanted to donate it to a museum...  I am just trying to find out something about it.  Serial number N144062.  Frame manufacture date B10.  Looks like it was built in Nov-Dec of 1935?  Any idea of what it is worth?
> 
> View attachment 1365306
> 
> ...



I’m seeing about $250-300 in parts as a whole bike about $200 or so. V/r Shawn


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## dave429 (Mar 1, 2021)

Thanks for compiling this list!


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## Rockman9 (Mar 2, 2021)

Thank you @Mercian for this list. I have 3 Westfield built pre-war bikes and I will post their info. 

First is a girl's 1936 Elgin. Serial # A249298 / BB Code: C11 (Nov 1936). The rear hub is Morrow but I don't see any other script stamped on it other than it's name. I think the chainring is called a sweetheart.


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## Rockman9 (Mar 2, 2021)

1936 Elgin Bluebird. Serial # A216574 / C10 (Oct 1936).


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## Rockman9 (Mar 2, 2021)

1941 Westfield Custom DeLuxe Motobike - Model F64TX. Serial # F93052 / BB Code: H4 (April 1941)
Has a Comet badge. Wheels are not original to the bike. I have the original pedals but when riding I often take them off and use a new pair to save wear on the originals.


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## Mercian (Mar 3, 2021)

Hi, @Rockman9 

Thank you for sharing your bike's details., each piece of information helps refine the list.

Elgin Ladies, Serial A249298, BB Code: C11 is, as you say, a frame from Nov 1936. It was probably built in December since it is the latest frame number I have from that year, and the last bike is known to be A266083, and also there is a known C12 frame which has a lower serial number.

This is the closest Ladies bike I have recorded to it, also a C11.









						Sold - 1936-38 Elgin Ladies | Archive (sold)
					

Very nice ladies Elgin!  Asking $400 + bikeflights.  Any questions please Ask!                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




					thecabe.com
				




Elgin Bluebird, Serial A216574 BB Code C10 is an Oct 1936 frame. It's a little lonely, since it's the only Bluebird I have recorded from 1936 with a 1936 frame build date. All the other 1936 serial numbered bikes so far have B9 or B10 frame dates, so they built a batch of frames late 1935, and it took some time to use them up. The 1937 serial numbered Blubirds recorded so far have D1 and D2 frame dates.

Westfield Custom DeLuxe Motobike - Model F64TX. Serial F93052, BB Code: H4 is, as you know, an April 1941 frame.

Close survivor F90347 belongs to @Bozman 









						Interesting bike what do I have? | Classic Balloon Tire Bicycles 1933-1965
					

Bought this bike frame set with a series of other bikes for restoration.  Looks like a 30s Era frame but a 20s Era fork. This has a closed fork which I've never seen before.  Any ideas of what this is?  Thanks in advance.   Boz  Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk




					thecabe.com
				




Here's the only two other Progressive Cycle Co. New York Comets I have listed:

1931 - https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/pre-war-comet-motobike.48716/

1938 - https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/n...ecial-275.128603/#lg=attachment781550&slide=0

I hope this is of use.

Thanks again,

Have a Great Day,

Adrian


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## Rockman9 (Mar 5, 2021)

@Mercian Thank you for the info. It's nice to know how these relate to the others. This is an awesome thread.. Have a good weekend. 

R


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## Krakatoa (Apr 7, 2021)

Here's a neat one to add... Late 1936 early 1937 Elgin Robin C12 over code B39422 serial!

I recently picked up this unfinished project... the frame, fork, crank and wheel set are original and I am thrilled to have it.

N


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## Mercian (Apr 8, 2021)

Hi Nate,

quite right, December 1936 frame, 1937 serial number. Several with earlier serial numbers in 1937 have D3 dated frames, so it looks like it was built up March-April time.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## cds2323 (Apr 14, 2021)

@Mercian

Adrian,
Here are a couple of 1936s I own. The one in the background is A180777/C9 and the one in the foreground is A263420/C12. Both have ND rear hubs. 



I also have/had two 1937 Elgin Orioles built by Westfield. The one I own now is B53036/D4 and I owned B167519/D9 (Morrow hub G3). Both are the metallic gunmetal gray with aluminum crescent fenders.

Chris


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## Mercian (Apr 15, 2021)

Hi @cds2323 

Chris, thanks for sharing those details, I appreciate it greatly. It's good to see such a similar pair. I think they have different headbadges, I would be interested to know what they are.?

A263420 is the latest bike I have recorded for 1936. The last bike was A266083, and on average they were making 720 bikes a day, so this should have been made in the last 3-4 days of the year.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## cds2323 (Apr 15, 2021)

@Mercian

The bike in the foreground has a Corsair badge. The background bike has a Columbus badge. Here’s another picture of the pair  



I also have this Westfield built double bar with an Elgin badge. These are quite an uncommon non catalog frame. B39543/D4



I also had this one. Aluminum fenders but was missing the tank and rack. B53715/D4


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## Mercian (Apr 16, 2021)

Hi @cds2323 

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the update with another frame, and the model names. Westfield had a huge variety of these, a lot left over from the ABC days.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Arfsaidthebee (Nov 7, 2021)

Here's a 1940 (E6 - 120562) ...Badged Bengal. Enjoy!


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## manuel rivera (Nov 7, 2021)

Arfsaidthebee said:


> Here's a 1940 (E6 - 120562) ...Badged Bengal. Enjoy!
> 
> View attachment 1508754
> 
> ...



I love that badge! Looks awesome 👌


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## Archie Sturmer (Nov 8, 2021)

Arfsaidthebee said:


> Here's a 1940 E…




Looks more like a 1938-C\E.


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## Mercian (Nov 8, 2021)

Hi Arfsaidthebee,

Archie hits it on the head, C120562, E6. A june 1938 made frame, but the bike was built up in September or after (there are September frames with lower serial numbers known). I have a couple of other Progressive Cycle Co. bikes listed, both Comet badged, never seen a Bengal.

C63380, E6. Also a June 1938, built up in July 1938. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/n...t-special.128603/#lg=attachment781550&slide=0

F93052, H4 an April 1941 frame. Post 120. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-frame-numbers-1933-1945.100743/page-12#post-1266708

Thanks for posting this, and the other details you've sent by PM, there's a longer reply there.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Mercian (Nov 9, 2021)

Hi All,

After further discussion with Arfsaidthebee, it looks like the serial number is really D120562, E6. A june 1938 made frame, but the bike was built up in November 1939, and unusually long time for Westfield to keep te bare frame in stock.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## genesmachines (Nov 21, 2021)

Heres my offering: A 1936 Columbus by Westfield. Serial #A118457, C7. It has a Morrow rear hub with date code F3. It has neat United States Giant Chain Tread No. 778 tires that need help, ANY IDEAS ON BRINGING THE TIRES BACK so they could be pliable and hold air for display?


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## Mercian (Nov 22, 2021)

Hi @genesmachines 

Thanks for publishing details, now added to the list.

Serial A118457, C7, is as you say, a1936 bike, the framewas built in July 36, and the bike built up soon after. The Morrow hub is nice, F3 is Quarter 3 1936, so it's almost certainly the original for this bike.

A118585, C7 is the closest survivor Ihave recorded. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1930s-no-frills-westfield-elgin-motobike.147430/#post-994123

M78528 from mid 1934 is the only othe Columbus I have recorded, also a Women's bike. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/need-help-columbia-ladies-bike-dating.167741/

My first advice for working on the tyres, is to take the wheels off on a nice sunny day, and leave them out in the sun to get hot,hotter the better, because they will be flexible.

If they are tubed tyres, and the tubes are OK, inflate gently not hard, but enough for the tubes to form the tyre back to shape. Otherwise remove the tyres carefully from the rims, replace the tubes with new ones, clean the interior of the tyres, and remount them, then inflate gently as above.

Once you have a decent shape, take them somewhere cooler, and put the wheels back on the bike, with the bike upside down to allow the tyres to cool in the new shape. Once fully cool (next day?), you should be able to inflate a little harder, but watch out for cracking.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## genesmachines (Nov 23, 2021)

Mercian said:


> Hi @genesmachines
> 
> Thanks for publishing details, now added to the list.
> 
> ...



thanks for the info. the tires will have to be a New Years resolution. Won't  be much heat in central NY for about 8 months. I have been using John Deere Ultra Guard rubber treatment on tires so will prep them with that, can't hurt. Thanks again, Gene


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## genesmachines (Nov 23, 2021)

Heres another, I am not good at Ids, no head badge. Serial #E62064, G3. There is also a stamp on rear drop left side setting on bike of 35 with a "dead" F. Its a "special deluxe" with metal skirt guards.


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## Mercian (Nov 24, 2021)

Hi @genesmachines 

I appreciate your posting this too. Every little bit of information helps build a fuller picture.

E62064 G3. The frame was made in March 1940, but the bicycle wasn't built up until June 1940 (the serial number is bracketed by serial numbers with G6 dated frames). The 35F I don't recognise. It might e a police stamp in case it got stolen, or something else entirely.

It's in really nice condition. Looks like 1/2 inch chain, unusual at that time in the US. Shame if the headbadge is missing, but I can see a witness mark from it. If you post that up, it could help indicate what the original badge was.

Thiis ladies 'The Sterling' (April 1940 frame) looks very similar, even down to the badge shape, so perhaps one of these (post 4)? https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/the-sterling-what-is-it.181336/

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## von_hansel (Dec 22, 2021)

Since this site helped me date code my newly acquired Westfield, I figured I would add to this forum. 

Here is my patina Feb (J2) '42 Westfield with a New Departure Model D hub. The serial number is G45112



Now onto finding a chain guard. Let me know if you notice anything else I am missing. 

Cheers,
Johnny


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## Mercian (Dec 23, 2021)

Dear Johnny @von_hansel 

Thanks for providing details of this bike.





The screen shot above gives you an idea of where it fits into known survivors. 

Since it is in the middle of a batch of G519 military bicycles, and is the same style frame it is worth your while checking to see if there is an M stamped just before the G. Sometimes the stamping can be very light. The nearest known survivor is a G519 MG45133 / J2, sold on Ebay earlier this year, hence the poor photos. The second shows the M marking to look for.

What is the badge on the frame?









Otherwise, if there is no M, then it is an interesting Civillian bike made in the middle of military production, and before the Sports Tourist 'Victory' frames came in only a few thousand frames later.

Please let us konw what you find either way, thanks.

Given that only 1000 or fewer frames later they are using J3, then I think yours was built late February 1942.

This is the last civillian bike of that style I have recorded G48953/J2, but it it's restored, and honestly may be over equipped in comparison to how it left the factory, so it may not be a good example to copy. It does have the same chain wheel as yours.









						1942 Columbia | Classic Balloon Tire Bicycles 1933-1965
					

I have a 1942 Columbia . Im painting and stripping some drop center rims . I think itll look more original . Pretty nice so far, as I all I started with was frame and front fender . So matching everything blue turned out to be pretty easy . Heres my questions for the pros out there . Why is my...




					thecabe.com
				




Best Regards,

Adrian


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## von_hansel (Dec 23, 2021)

Hi Adrian,
When I was researching the Westfield list on Tuesday, I found it interesting that there were only MG (Military) for serial numbers between 43xxx-46xxx as mine starts with G. My bicycle looks like it was originally blue and white and at some point someone painted red over areas of it.

I can try taking a wire brush to the frame next to the G to see if there is an "M" but it doesn't look like it in this photo.






The badge on the frame is Westfield:




Thank you to the link above to a restored Columbia. That is the paint style that mine looks like it originally came with.  Would mine have originally come with a tank and the kickstand that attaches to the rear of the frame? 

It looks like the front fender on mine has an area where a torpedo light was once attached.


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## Mercian (Dec 23, 2021)

Dear Johnny, @von_hansel 

Thanj you for following up with pictures and information.

I think what you've done is enough to show it isn't a G519, although, as we see above, the frame number and type are exactly right. It's a bit of a mystery, since I can understand Westfield using up overrun frames frames on civilian bikes at the end of a military contract, but this is in the middle, and also there are J3 dated G519 frames that were produced after this.

It's bikes like this that (literally) fill in the gaps, though they raise questions also.

Anyway, a very interesting bike, and thanks for showing it.

As far as what it looked like originally. Westfield certainly were using up prewar parts, but whether a tank was considered  essential, I doubt, but things were starnge at that point.

Here is (post 3) a similar bike belonging to @Car&bikeguy555, with the same colours and chainwheel, produced early the same month, but with the Pope badge instead. G35983 / J1. Although not exactly the same model, it is unrestored, and I'd be more inclined to believe i is as it left the factory.

.https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/need-some-westfield-columbia-bicycle-help.150891/

The stand on this looks to be a later fitment. For yours, look on the rear mudguard, below the reflector, if there's two  holes drilled into it, one above the other, then it had a clip for the dropstand like the one below ( photo credit @John Gailey ). If not, then it was a kickstand.





Best Regards,

Adrian


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## von_hansel (Dec 23, 2021)

Hi Adrian,
I'm glad I was able to fill in the gaps. We do the same thing with air cooled VWs trying to figure what were the changes at what vin number/date  on the smallest of details. 

No, my rear mud guard does not have two holes drilled into it for a drop stand. 

This is all great info. Thank you for the help and thank you for keeping this thread up to date with tons of great info!


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## Majdotkool (Jan 14, 2022)

…


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## thericebunnycake (Mar 11, 2022)

hi everyone, would like to know the year made of my compax paratrooper here's the serial number (G 14122 A)


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## Mercian (Mar 14, 2022)

Hi @thericebunnycake

Sorry for the delayed reply.

G14122A / L2 is a Compax F92H, frame made February 1944. I have a note of it going through Ebay previously in August 2020. It was discussed here:









						Military? | Military Bicycles
					

Does the extra bracket in the rear triangle make this a military model?  https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2&toolid=10001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=333667454119  Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk




					thecabe.com
				




There are a surprising number of survivors known from this block of 100 serial numbers, at 5%. Generally it's less than 1%.





G14144A is here at post 77.

@Sarg1969 https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-frame-numbers-1933-1945.100743/page-8

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## thericebunnycake (Mar 14, 2022)

Mercian said:


> Hi @thericebunnycake
> 
> Sorry for the delayed reply.
> 
> ...



thanks for the info sir highly appreciated 👌


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