# "Steer Horn" and similar handlebars on Schwinns



## bloo (May 26, 2021)

How many types of "steer horn" or "swept back" bars did Schwinn have? In the 1959 catalog, the Speedster (and a few others) are listed as having "7800" handlebar.







In another thread, @GTs58  posted this catalog page. It is from April 1962 and tells us that a 7800 is "S.B. 26x8 steer horn type". I guess that's 26" width with 8" sweep? No word about the rise.





The Heavy-Duti has handlebars about like this too. @irideiam  posted this (and some related pages) in a Heavy-Duti thread. The 1965 Heavy-Duti, and also the 1964 Heavy Duty American that preceded it were specified with 7884 handlebars. It's hard to tell much about handlebars from pictures, but they look pretty similar to me.





And what of the ones on the Phantom? The catalog shows 7800 for the 59 phantom. Somehow I was expecting Phantom bars to be really huge. Did the pre-59 Phantoms have a different handlebar? What is the difference between 7800 and 7884?

And finally, did Schwinn make these bars for themselves or farm them out? Torrington? Wald?


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## Chris (May 26, 2021)

Good questions. Will probably need pictures to advance the discussion, to distinguish different handlebars and what is/is not swept back or steer horn handlebars. Other distinct types are gooseneck (early Jaguar) and box type (tandem and Cycletruck...though the latter two are different widths).


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## bloo (May 27, 2021)

It is so hard to tell from pictures, but easy when you are standing next to the bike. I recall a for sale thread recently where a member had several handlebars for sale including some crossbar Torringtons for sale, and another member said he would take the ones in the bottom pic. The seller, somewhat confused by this said "those are the same handlebars as in the top pic". One pic looked as if the bars came straight back, motorbike style. The other pic looked as if they were spread.



Chris said:


> Other distinct types are gooseneck (early Jaguar)




I am not familiar with the term gooseneck (except for stems). The early Jaguar ad seems to show "Northroad" bars, in other words fairly narrow ones that curve forward and then back like the ones commonly used on English 3 speeds and Schwinn's premium middleweights (Corvette, etc.). But then, in this pic @hzqw2l posted back in 2012 of an original 1954 Jaguar, it looks like what I would call "Boy Scout", or Schwinn 7806 in the 1962 page above. Schwinn themselves muddied the water by calling some other style of bar "Boy Scout" later on.

Are either of these the ones you mean?











Chris said:


> and box type (tandem and Cycletruck...though the latter two are different widths).




I had no idea until now there were 2 widths. Those were called "Paperboy bars" when I was a kid. Schwinn listed them as 7830 Cycle Truck in the 1962 page above. They don't get in the way of a big basket or anything else in the front.





And compared to "Boy Scout" 7806, so you can see what the main difference is. The outer bends come up gradually, rather than straight up almost 90 degrees on those cycle truck bars. I can't say for sure that the picture below is 7806, but if not it has a very similar bend.

On both of these types, the bends do not come forward of the stem at all. On both of them the grips come straight back at the rider.





And that brings us back to steer horns. None of the bars above are what I would call steer horn, or what Schwinn called steer horn in 1962. I would like to know more about these other types as well, but as steer horns, they are out of the running.

The ones I refer to do not come forward of the stem, but are splayed out to the side at an angle where the grips go. Wald has 3 different widths of them in their catalog to fit a standard stem (872,896,898), and I can't help but wonder if any of Wald's offerings are the same bends as any of the old Schwinn offerings, or if they made any of the bars for Schwinn. I have seen Wald stems on some Chicago built Schwinns, so it's not like they never used Wald stuff.

Wald Catalog: https://www.waldllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/CATALOG.pdf

Some random steer horns:





I think there are at least 2 kinds used (and possibly produced) by Chicago Schwinn. The 7800, the 7884 (but were they produced concurrently or was one a replacement for the other?), and maybe a third type earlier on.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (May 27, 2021)

I have the steer horn type like the ones above on my 1965 HD and on a 1980 ladies cruiser. I don't have both here so I can't compare how close they are. Good point that one style may have been the replacement. Most of the other middleweights have the style that come forward of the stem then more so straight back to rider. The vary in rise from 2-5 inches. I believe you may be correct that Wald produces and produced bars that matched the Schwinn bars and maybe even made them for Schwinn.


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## Chris (May 29, 2021)

I believe the style handlebars on my 1958 Jaguar Mark II are the Northroad, sometimes called gooseneck, picture below.

For the Cycletruck, these are 22in wide handlebars, I believe made by Torrington. The ones  used on the Schwinn balloon Wasps as the Newsboy Specials were wider, 24in wide measuring at the distance between the grip ends. These are like the rear handlebars on the Schwinn Town and Country labeled 7871R. I don’t know definitely if they are the same as I have not examined a tandem bike with original handlebars to measure and compare, but they look the same.


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## bloo (May 29, 2021)

Chris said:


> I believe the style handlebars on my 1958 Jaguar Mark II are the Northroad, sometimes called gooseneck, picture below.




From the pictures, I would also call the ones on your Jaguar northroad (gooseneck is new to me, but now I know what it means). I would bet those are 7819s, and the ones on my 61 Speedster as well. Schwinn seemed to prefer those for their higher level middleweights, and then started putting them on the cheaper ones like mine too around 1961.







coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Most of the other middleweights have the style that come forward of the stem then more so straight back to rider. The vary in rise from 2-5 inches.




Sounds like the northroad. Do you really mean there are a bunch of different ones with different rise? 



Chris said:


> For the Cycletruck, these are 22in wide handlebars, I believe made by Torrington. The ones used on the Schwinn balloon Wasps as the Newsboy Specials were wider, 24in wide measuring at the distance between the grip ends. These are like the rear handlebars on the Schwinn Town and Country labeled 7871R. I don’t know definitely if they are the same as I have not examined a tandem bike with original handlebars to measure and compare, but they look the same.




Cycletruck bars are narrower than the paperboy ones? Wow, I never would have guessed that. So 22 inches for Cycletruck (7830) and 24 inches for Tandem rear (7871r), all box type, and probably Wasp Newsboy Specials too. Noted.

Now I wonder what the tandem front (7840f) looks like. I thought they were northroad, but they have their own part number so maybe not.



coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> I have the steer horn type like the ones above on my 1965 HD and on a 1980 ladies cruiser. I don't have both here so I can't compare how close they are.




Probably original 7884 then on the HD? Next time you find yourself near the HD would you mind measuring it? Maybe the ladies cruiser too.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (May 30, 2021)

bloo said:


> me you find yourself near the HD would you mind measuring it? Maybe the ladies cruiser too



They both measure 27 inches wide, however they are configured slightly different. each side of the bars made up of 3 parts from the stem  the '80s measure 4" over then a 7" rise to a 5" handle. The '65s measure from the stem 4" over a 5" rise and a 7" handle making then slightly lower.


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## bloo (May 30, 2021)

Thank you!  

Is the 27" center to center, inside to inside, or end to end?

What about the rise? is that outside to outside including the tubing twice?


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (May 30, 2021)

27 across from end to end the rise seems to be 5 on both. The measurements I gave you earlier were general numbers. The bends are in different  places  on each bar but they stay generally the same shape and the both measure the 27 at the ends. I will get pics when I get a chance. I do not like the little 22 inch boy scout bars. On my '59 Corvette I put a later '70s version with the higher rise then the original I think what I have on there is a 5" and it came with a 2" rise.


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## GTs58 (May 30, 2021)

Torrington did supply bars and from my examples over the years I'd have to say that Schwinn did use bars made by other manufactures at least into the early 60's. I've had two 60's Corvettes where the Northroad bars had a W stamped on the end. A very light stamping and easy to miss. Same bends as the unmarked Schwinn bars. Gooseneck was never use in describing bars but Swan has sometimes been used on bars that bend outward or forward of the stem and then curl back. The SB26x8  #7800 bars were used and spec'd on many of the early post war models and it's very possible that the actual measurements and bends had very slight changes over the 4 or 5  decades. I've noted that after the early Northroad bars used in the first half of the 50's changed there were two versions with a rise change of just under an inch. It's not easy identifying some bars just by looking at a set in a picture. Just for the heck of it I purchased two sets of Northroad bars currently on the market to see what the differences might be. One was sold under the Sunlite name and the other was Wald. Here's the comparison with a Schwinn set and the Sunlite. The forward bend is not as far out, the pull back is much longer, rise is a little more along with the overall width.


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## Arnold Ziffel (May 30, 2021)

7881     is  my  all-time  favorite.      You can definitely find them from 1967 to 1977

These are found on BREEZE, SPEEDSTER, COLLEGIATE, & SUBURBAN models.
All that I have seen do have the year stamped to the right of the number 7881.
Example:  7881-67  denotes  1967,    and  7881-75  denotes 1975,   and  7881-71   is 1971.........etc...

I use these ancient 7881 handlebars on nearly all my projects.
Extremely comfortable  and  because millions of Schwinns bicycles were made with them, just before and through the Bike Boom of the early Seventies,  there is no shortage of these 7881 bars in excellent condition.   Even a 50 year old 7881 handlebar from 1971 in average condition is far nicer to anything one can purchase new today.    Schwinn chrome of the late sixties going through the mid seventies was the best in the bicycle industry,  and  those 7881 bars are in my opinion, the most comfortable tourist handlebars that anyone ever offered.    That is why that I install them on brand new Walmart/Target bikes (did that for neighbors' with new low priced Huffy Cranbrooks, and Del Lusso, &  " PacificCycleschwinn" Admiral, and Gateway, and other Chinese big-box discount store cheapies.    I have also converted many old Schwinn Varsities & Continentals, as well as some Sport Collegiates and Le Tours  to   UPRIGHT TOURIST RIDERS with 7881 bars and  the WEINMANN tourist levers commonly used in the sixties and seventies (red dot Eyepoker, Red dot ball end,  Gold dot....etc  Doesn't matter  which you do choose to use as functionality is exactly the same as long as the are the  common 22.2mm for the 7/8" outer  bar diameter )
I have converted hundreds of ordinary FREE SPIRIT 10 speeds with these 7881 bars.   Many other makes also.
I have also used these 7881 bars on many typical ordinary bicycles from the 1930's, 1940's, 1950's , 1960's ,and 1970's  as you can see that I do think they are better in both comfort , quality, and overall appearance.    I am never concerned as to whether something is   ' CORRECT '   -----------my only concern is  in my opinion  does it IMPROVE the bicycle.
Pedals and seats are another thing that I don't hesitate to change if I deem that a change is necessary.
You might want to know that the SCHWINN comfort GRIPS that were found on SEVENTIES era Suburbans and Collegiates are the best ones that Schwinn offered.........Almost all of them are Black in color  and  you can determine them from ordinary grips based on the visible empty space, pocket when viewed up close from near the grip's end..      These are really comfortable traditional look handlebar grips.


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## bloo (May 31, 2021)

So I gather the 7881 northroad most likely replaced the 7819 northroad for 1967?

A posting on worthpoint of a closed ebay auction says:


> SCHWINN HANDLEBAR - Up for sale is a vintage 1966 Schwinn Middleweight handlebar. Stamped 7819-66. Removed from a 26" wheel Schwinn.- The original Chrome has some pitting and scratches. The bar is straight. No cracks. Measures approximately 22" wide. Check out the photos.- Any questions please ask.For more classic parts and bikes, see my other listings and eBay store.



The existence of a 7819 bar stamped 66 seems to support that idea. There was a picture of the stamp, but it does not link well.

It also appears that the 7881 has more rise than the 7819. Is that the case? Coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:



coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> On my '59 Corvette I put a later '70s version with the higher rise then the original I think what I have on there is a 5" and it came with a 2" rise.
> 
> View attachment 1420978




Those look like 7881, and late 1970s suggests they would be. Waterford's 1959 catalog scan says the originals would have been 7819.


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## Chris (May 31, 2021)

My bad on the gooseneck nomenclature, thought that was a typical descriptor for the Northroad, but GTs58 is was more knowledgeable in these areas, I’m still a newbie learning.


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## GTs58 (May 31, 2021)

Bloo, you are correct. When the lightweights really started gaining popularity in the mid 60's Schwinn pretty much phased out the old style Northroad bars #7819 that were used on most of the middleweights and lightweight Tourist models replacing them with the higher rise #7881 bars. The transition started in 1967 where some models had the #7881 bars but most of lightweights and a few middleweights still had the #7819 bars. I'm pretty sure by 1968 the #7819's were totally gone.   
The paperboy bars shown on @Chris 's Wasp were described as Boxed End bars where all the bends were at right angles.


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## GTs58 (May 31, 2021)

1947 ad. Check out the SB 872!


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## bloo (May 31, 2021)

Wow, the 872 sure has changed. Those are really long. Today the 872 is the shortest and narrowest of their 3 swept back or steer horn style offerings, 24 inches wide according to the catalog. I saw one at the LBS, and it is definitely on the small side.


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## bloo (Jun 18, 2021)

Getting back to Schwinn steer horns for a minute....

Look at this 1939 Spitfire, those are looooooong.....





Thread is here:








						1939 schwinn spitfire | Classic Balloon Tire Bicycles 1933-1965
					

I just purchased this on marketplace, looks og all the way. I’ve never seen one of these before? Any idea on value of something like this?? Thanks!!




					thecabe.com
				




And this 1941 DX, looks like it has the same ones:





Thread is here:








						Help please..Is this a 1940 or a 41 Schwinn DX  " Pioneer " ?? | All Things Schwinn
					

Great original paint bike.. I tried looking at the threads on serial numbers but I understand that the serial number might not mean too much,and to go by build/looks? Thanks everyone! Jeff




					thecabe.com
				




And after the war, there is this early 50s Panther. Look at how much bar comes after the grip:





Thread here:








						Early 50's Schwinn Black Panther complete with some period mods-----F/S | Sell - Trade: Complete Bicycles
					

Neat old Panther survivor.  At some point this one got the "UK" touch with a Dyno-hub generator hub on the front wheel and an unusual Sturmey Archer 3 speed Coaster brake rear hub.  No  linkage or shifter on board but I think fairly easy to locate.  Bike is straight and solid overall chrome on...




					thecabe.com
				




51 Phantom:





Thread: 








						Bringing back to life a'51 black phantom | Project Rides
					

Very very nice.




					thecabe.com
				




But then......

We know from the 1959 catalog that the Schwinns that still had steer horns, like Wasp, Speedster, etc. used #7800. 

1959 Speedster. Probably 7800? looks shorter doesn't it? Maybe not quite as short(?) as the 7884 that comes on a mid 60s Heavy Duty King Size:





Thread here:








						1959 Schwinn Middleweight Speedster Boys | Stuff on eBay, Craigslist, Facebook
					

Just listed by me; asking $200 https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/bik/d/1959-schwinn-boys-middleweight/6322118585.html




					thecabe.com
				




Ebay 1960(?) Speedster:





And rollfaster's 61 speedster:





Thread:








						1961 Schwinn Speedster... fenders? | Middleweight Bicycles
					

I drug this middleweight out of storage the other day. It was my dad's bike. He got it used. As long as I can remember it had chrome (or maybe stainless) fenders on it, but they were dented and the front one didn't fit right. Sometime in the 80s I bought him some new Wald fenders, also chrome...




					thecabe.com
				




*These last three all look shorter to me. All seem to have Schwinn grips, and look how much bar is not covered by the grip before it gets to the bend. Is this just an optical illusion? Are they all #7800? Or did Schwinn have a third longer type in the years prior to the publication of that 1959 catalog? If they aren't #7800, what are they?*


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## GTs58 (Jun 19, 2021)

I have to assume that the post war Schwinn's had a limited choice of components compared to the prewar times. There were more model choices post war so more parts needed and the place to store the parts could be one reason for limiting optional equipment. As far as the handlebars go, it looks like there were more options before post war times. Here's a copy of the 1940 parts list on handlebars.


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## bloo (Jun 19, 2021)

Ok, so in 1940 there's a bazillion bars (that's quite a list!), but in unbraced steer horns we have:

814 (2588)  26x8
815 (2589)  28x10
816 (2590)  30x12
(second number is just the version wired for horn)

Maybe a long postwar version on early Phantoms and stuff? Possibly equivalent to prewar 815? The pictures suggest it but maybe it is an illusion.

_____   28? x 10?

and in 1962 (plus the 1959 catalog) :

7800   26x8

and in 1964-65 as seen on Heavy Duty American and the Heavy-Duti:

7884  (?? probably a little shorter yet?)

@coasterbrakejunkie1969 measured these at 27 end to end, and I wonder if Schwinn measured bars center to center, if they did, that makes them 26x7? He also measured a similar bar from the 80s, shorter grip area, same overall width (all in his post on page 1). That leaves us one more version with an unknown part number.

____  (1980s steer horn)


One might guess that 814 and 7800 are the same thing, but unfortunately Schwinn apparently didn't give us a rise measurement, stem to grip, on any of these.

It sure looks like early Hornet, Phantom, etc is longer than the 7800 on circa 1959-60 Wasp, Speedster, 59 Phantom, etc..


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## B607 (Jun 19, 2021)

Hold my beer while I show you my steer horn bars.  Gary


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Jun 20, 2021)

bloo said:


> Ok, so in 1940 there's a bazillion bars (that's quite a list!), but in unbraced steer horns we have:
> 
> 814 (2588)  26x8
> 815 (2589)  28x10
> ...



I measured again and I was wrong, the 1980 was 26 wide center to center and the 1965 was 24.


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