# 1946? Roadmaster cyclo(cycle)truck



## flat black kustoms (Nov 30, 2008)

Does anybody have any info on this bike/frame? I am looking for forks...will Schwinn cycle truck forks fit, they look similar? I need a basket and the kickstand,too! The only thing that I have to go off of for the year is an old metal license plate from Klamath Falls, Oregon reading 1946 ! I haven't seen a lot of the bikes around the web...until lately, but still not a lot!






Any info on this bike/frame will help, Thanks. GERRY D.


----------



## RMS37 (Nov 30, 2008)

Hi Gerry,

The license is newer than the bike. Cleveland Welding?s model 2010 delivery bicycle is shown in their 1940 and 1941 catalogs. To the best of my knowledge the model was not continued after WW2. I?ll scan a picture from the catalog for you tomorrow. As far as fitting a Schwinn fork it might work if the head tubes are the same length but I don?t have either to measure and compare. Another possibility would be to weld a longer steerer tube to a 20? forged balloon fork. From the catalog illustration the fork rake looks relatively standard for a 20? fork.

If you don?t mind posting the serial number from the bottom of the crank hanger I will add it to the CWC serial number data base.

Thanks

Phil Marshall


----------



## JRE (Nov 30, 2008)

I can lengthen or shorten a fork tube if you need one modified. I'm in woodburn Oregon


----------



## flat black kustoms (Nov 30, 2008)

If you can e mail me some of the catalog photos,pages that would be great...where do I get a catalog like that?      fltblkkstm@hotmail.com


----------



## Aeropsycho (Dec 1, 2008)

*Good Luck!!!*



flat black kustoms said:


> If you can e mail me some of the catalog photos,pages that would be great...where do I get a catalog like that?      fltblkkstm@hotmail.com





The Only one sharing any catalogs is Fleetwood...

I would like to see the catalog page too....:eek:

Are you going to restore this???

I might scrape up a package deal for you....

J A M I E


----------



## yeshoney (Dec 1, 2008)

*Pictures and ????*

Catalog pics of this bike would be great!  I have  one too that I stripped and was getting ready to decide how to build it back up.  I am really curious about the type fenders that are suppose to go in it.  Round, Peaked, ducktail front? Back? Both?  What is the correct rack for these?  I don't have the bracket piece or the basket, but I don't think I wanted a basket anyway.  I have a really great cooler I am going to attach.

Thanks in advance.  Not meaning to hijack your post either.

PS  Is that the right sprocket?  Chainguard?


----------



## RMS37 (Dec 1, 2008)

Hi again,

Here is the scan of the CWC delivery model from the 1940 catalog. I have enhanced it slightly from the original (CWC catalogs were not originally printed to the high level of quality of Westfield catalogs) 

The model is not depicted in my copy of the 1939 catalog and the 1941 catalog uses the same illustration and text as 1940.

While the model doesn?t appear in the printing of the 1939 catalog I have, I believe the model may have been offered before 1940 based on the serial numbers I have seen.

*About bicycle catalogs and the public domain. *

In answer to your question about finding bicycle literature; the two best sources for purchasing original catalogs in general are bicycle swap meets and eBay. Prices are usually better at non bike specific swap events, estate sales and the like but you have to look through more stuff to find them and the chance of finding information on the specific year, make, model that you are searching for is slim at best. 

Prewar bicycle literature is scarce in general and some pieces are rare to the degree that even those who have specialized in collecting bicycle catalogs since the 1960?s and 70?s have individual items they are still searching for. This scarcity translates to high prices when original pieces become available to collectors in an auction environment like eBay.

Those of us interested in the history of bicycles all owe a debt to those who have copied, scanned and published information from brochures and catalogs. In addition to just sharing, some people have put the extra time into digitally cleaning and enhancing badly worn originals. 37fleetwood certainly stands out for his work in this area but credit also goes to those who have shared catalogs with him and to many other forum members who have posted scans from their archives. 

Outside this forum, Dave Stromberger stands out as deserving credit for his work and his site, Nostalgic.net.  In addition to being everyone?s go to site for bike reference photos he has scanned and posted many individual pages and entire catalogs on his site.

Off the internet there are many collectors who are happy to display their literature to guests and some offer either xerographic or digital copies at reasonable prices.  

I also can understand that some people have a large amount of money invested in their literature collections and when any piece of literature is copied in any fashion and passed on it becomes part of the public domain. The more circulated the information becomes, the less the originals are worth. If someone has amassed a million dollars worth of bicycle literature with the idea that it is their rainy day nest egg, their retirement, or the basis of an estate to pass on to their family it is not in their interest to halve the value of that collection.

On the bright side for those searching for information, more information becomes available every day from new finds that emerge on the internet and from the sharing that is natural and the basic reason for the existence of forums such as this one. 

Phil Marshall


----------



## RMS37 (Dec 1, 2008)

Hi Joe, 

I clicked post just as you posted your questions, The catalog shows a different, very unique sprocket and a more deluxe chain guard than the one in place on flat black?s bike but his parts are standard CWC so they are likely original.

As you can see the bike is pictured without a rack, if one were supplied I would expect it to be the basic standard 1940 CWC rack.

The fenders are curious as they are referred to as full crown but not crescent or gothic. I would expect them to be CWC gothic as the CWC crescent fenders seem to have been dropped by 1938 but it is hard to tell if they are ridged or smooth from the catalog picture.  

I?ll add that it is my belief that CWC pressed their own fenders. Many companies outsourced fender production but the fenders that CWC used are different from those used by anyone else.

Phil


----------



## flat black kustoms (Dec 1, 2008)

*Roadmaster serial #*



RMS37 said:


> Hi Gerry,
> 
> The license is newer than the bike. Cleveland Welding?s model 2010 delivery bicycle is shown in their 1940 and 1941 catalogs. To the best of my knowledge the model was not continued after WW2. I?ll scan a picture from the catalog for you tomorrow. As far as fitting a Schwinn fork it might work if the head tubes are the same length but I don?t have either to measure and compare. Another possibility would be to weld a longer steerer tube to a 20? forged balloon fork. From the catalog illustration the fork rake looks relatively standard for a 20? fork.
> 
> ...








The serial # is  D01101  (one letter, five numbers) and directly below it is another set of numbers?  This is what they look like!   <4052>    I don't know if they were put on after or they are factory stamped...they look real straight , not hand punched!


----------



## flat black kustoms (Dec 1, 2008)

*package deal?*



Aeropsycho said:


> The Only one sharing any catalogs is Fleetwood...
> 
> I would like to see the catalog page too....:eek:
> 
> ...






Package deal? What do you mean ?


----------



## yeshoney (Dec 1, 2008)

*Here are my pics*

Here is a pic of the serial number for your database.  I also included pics of the fork ends.  It doesn't look like the catalog pics have these threaded tubes brazed on them.  They certainly look to be original and have a fair amount of pitting which would indicate rust over time.  Any ideas?  Thanks for all the other info.  My rear fender looks original, but some idiot cut off the tail presumably because it was dented and then repainted it.  Holes were filled and a washer tacked in where the hole was rounded out.


----------



## flat black kustoms (Dec 1, 2008)

Can you send a photo of the complete fork? What is the steer tube length? How far from the dropout is that bung?


----------



## yeshoney (Dec 1, 2008)

*FBK - Here is a pic from a while back*

This was a mockup i did awhile back.  It is still sitting in bare metal.





Joe


----------



## RMS37 (Dec 1, 2008)

Thanks guys for the serial numbers. it is interesting how close they are. I have another related item to share regarding the brazed bosses on the fork but it is on my work machine so I'll post it tomorrow.  

A couple more questions, Joe, is the original fender from your bike ridged or smooth? And if you don't mind, a nice clear close-up side shot of either rear dropout showing the full dropout including the area where it attachs to the stays would be helpfull regarding an idea I have dating the frames.

Thanks 

Phil


----------



## RMS37 (Dec 2, 2008)

Here is a CWC patent for a stand that shows the brazed on fork bosses. It is interesting that the patent was filed in 1943 and granted in 1947. This patent coupled with Joe's observation that the 1940-41 model shows the stand pivoting off the axel leads me to believe that the Delivery model may have been produced both before and after WW2.

If you are interested in the accompanying text for this patent, you can find it on a Google patent search by number.

Phil


----------



## Aeropsycho (Dec 3, 2008)

*Pictures to come....*

I have two Bikes one almost complete with original Maroon paint (missing stand and basket....) Frank sent me some great pictures of Jerry's bike (green one, chestnut hollow)... I will have to dig everything up but, in the meantime there is a set of wheels for a Schwinn Cycle Truck on the bay They are exact except the front hub being a large flange the wheels on a RM are the same as a schwinn prewar CT I may get rid of the parts on one of mine in a "PACKAGE DEAL"....fork fenders....? but I gotta DIG DIG DIG

J A M I E


----------



## sm2501 (Dec 5, 2008)

Here's a couple of Delivery bikes in my stable-





The bike has been house painted, and the paint was too thick on the bb to see the serial. I will scrape it later to see the serial number. It obviously has the fork mount tabs for the stand.





Odd frame, ever see one before? I do not know if the forks are correct or not. By looking at Phil's ad, they do look correct. It does have a RM badge on it, but that doesn't mean much. 

Here's the serial #...or is it? C301





Lastly, here is a spare fork that I have-





The steerer measures 13-1/4".


----------



## JOEL (Dec 5, 2008)

Interesting that it has a Schwinn style stand and basket too! The only 'original' basket I have seen was a funky double decker.

My RM CT has gothic fenders which I believe to be orig.


----------



## sm2501 (Dec 5, 2008)

I do not believe the basket or chainring to be correct for RMs, probably just added on by another restorer. As far as the fork goes, it is similar to a Schwinn fork, but not the same. It appears to be the same one as in Phil's ad.


----------



## flat black kustoms (Dec 6, 2008)

*Thank you so much........KEEP THE PHOTOS COMING!*

Thanks to ALL the CABE COMMUNITY who helped get info on this bike! If you have any other photo's, info or spare parts...PLEASE LET ME KNOW. You guy's have just made this project fun for me again! Does anyone know about the "top" basket bracket on the RM? Or even the bottom? If anyone has a photo of the lower frame basket bracket...without the basket mounted it would be very helpful in making some new brackets! Thanks again, GERRY D.  FLAT BLACK KUSTOMS.


----------



## Aeropsycho (Dec 7, 2008)

*Pictures...*

I will try tomorrow I don't have a basket... but maybe a pic of jerry's

it is really hard to find one that is correct and untouched that is why bikes should not be parted out on the bay!!!

J A M I E


----------



## JOEL (Dec 7, 2008)

Here are some pix of mine. The SN is D30148. Under the crackled house paint, I can see black paint with white box striping that I think is original (frame, fork, both fenders). The fenders are center peaked/gothic style and very heavy duty.Fork has the stand mounts and a tab for the fender.


----------



## JOEL (Dec 7, 2008)

Some close up shots...


----------



## JOEL (Dec 7, 2008)

OK, so it seems we all have a common problem. So who wants to reproduce the stands and basket braces? Aren't there some metal benders on this site?


----------



## JRE (Dec 7, 2008)

Make me a pateren and I could do it. I work at a metal fab shop.


----------



## JOEL (Dec 8, 2008)

Basket and mounts.


----------



## Aeropsycho (Dec 8, 2008)

*Thanks!*

Thanks for the pics Joel I am and will be posting mine soon just been busy I have some here at work I will look today KEEP CHECKING THIS POST!!!

J A M I E


----------



## flat black kustoms (Dec 8, 2008)

Thanks alot everyone...this is great , more photos than I thought I would get!
KEEP EM' COMIN' !!


----------



## Aeropsycho (Dec 8, 2008)

*More Pics... Not my bike or parts*

Here are more secret details of the Roadmaster CT...


----------



## Aeropsycho (Dec 8, 2008)

*More...*

More Pictures not my stuff!!!


----------



## Classicriders (Dec 8, 2008)

Here is one I had a while ago.


----------



## JRE (Dec 8, 2008)

Peice of cake. Work out the dementions and I can make it.


----------



## flat black kustoms (Feb 7, 2009)

*Anymore Cycle-truck(roadmaster) Photo's ?*

Hello forum! Has anyone come up with anymore photo's of Roadmaster cycle trucks? I am still looking for idea's for my bike, basket's & bike stand's. 
ANYONE ??


----------



## Aeropsycho (Feb 7, 2009)

*Sorrry!*

I can take pics of mine give me a couple o days! 

There are some on here on the cabe...

http://www.thecabe.com/arc/shows and swaps/2006 JR Planck Museum/



J A M I E


----------



## flat black kustoms (Mar 11, 2009)

*pics?*



Aeropsycho said:


> I can take pics of mine give me a couple o days!
> 
> There are some on here on the cabe...
> 
> ...






What about those pics? I will post soon...got my forks all fab'd up & ready to build !


----------



## flat black kustoms (Mar 11, 2009)

*So Far.....*

This is what I have , so far! It has been awhile since I had done anything with this bike....It was just sitting in the garage waiting! There is a local ride on friday the 13th, and I wanted a bike to ride .....so here it is ! GERRY D.  FBK.


----------



## flat black kustoms (Mar 12, 2009)

*DIG,DIG and DIG SOME MORE !!*



Aeropsycho said:


> I have two Bikes one almost complete with original Maroon paint (missing stand and basket....) Frank sent me some great pictures of Jerry's bike (green one, chestnut hollow)... I will have to dig everything up but, in the meantime there is a set of wheels for a Schwinn Cycle Truck on the bay They are exact except the front hub being a large flange the wheels on a RM are the same as a schwinn prewar CT I may get rid of the parts on one of mine in a "PACKAGE DEAL"....fork fenders....? but I gotta DIG DIG DIG
> 
> J A M I E





I am still interested in some parts, did you ever "DIG" them up? Looking for basket brackets, forks and kickstand! Thanks alot, GERRY D.


----------



## Aeropsycho (Mar 16, 2009)

*Sorry sorry...*

I have a original paint (Maroon) fork.... $100 with free shipping or trade??? that is it for now... The other parts I have I might need but eventually I will let them go I am making a Rat Rod Bike out of a broken frame sooo I could  have another fork and front fender, chain guard, sprocket....for sale soon.

I need the stand too and brackets I am gonna have to make um...

On the pictures I have been cleaning up for weeks sold two cars and have been trying to get out of the hole BUSY  I will post them soon... I have a original unmolested bike with original war tires... Black Morrow Hubs 1944 date code.


----------



## flat black kustoms (May 29, 2009)

Aeropsycho said:


> I have a original paint (Maroon) fork.... $100 with free shipping or trade??? that is it for now... The other parts I have I might need but eventually I will let them go I am making a Rat Rod Bike out of a broken frame sooo I could  have another fork and front fender, chain guard, sprocket....for sale soon.
> 
> I need the stand too and brackets I am gonna have to make um...
> 
> On the pictures I have been cleaning up for weeks sold two cars and have been trying to get out of the hole BUSY  I will post them soon... I have a original unmolested bike with original war tires... Black Morrow Hubs 1944 date code.




Cool, I would like to see those photo's ! Find em' yet? GERRY D.


----------



## flat black kustoms (Oct 14, 2010)

Still looking for basket brackets! Need to mount something soon! Anyone have any ideas? HELP!


----------



## yeshoney (Oct 14, 2010)

Here are pics of my finished RM truck i dubbed "Bud Truck"  I rode it this past weekend 26 miles.  Went from Dennis to Chatham and back out on the Bike Trails on Cape Cod.  Took me two hours, so I averaged 13 miles per hour.  Not bad for a Nexus 3 speed which stayed in first gear the whole time except for a couple of downhill bursts.  Rode back with a pair of Bontrager Hank's over my shoulder to boot!


----------



## oktoday (Oct 17, 2010)

i worked at TRW in cleveland starting in the '70's as what they called a "hand trucker", moving parts around a huge factory. we had a few of these bikes there, as well as 3 wheel bikes with 2 wheels up front with a tray on top. if only i had paid more attention to exactly what these old bikes were...if only i knew back then what i know now...lol...


----------



## flat black kustoms (Oct 19, 2010)

NICE! Keep 'em comin! I like seeing these bikes! More n' more comin out off the woodwork!


----------



## chitown (Oct 19, 2010)

yeshoney said:


> I rode it this past weekend 26 miles.  Took me two hours, so I averaged 13 miles per hour. Rode back with a pair of Bontrager Hank's over my shoulder to boot!





13 mph is a pretty high cruising speed and at that distance too... very impressive.


----------



## cyclonecoaster.com (Oct 20, 2010)

*I used copper or zinc one inch pipe staps from round off the corners*

I have used these pipe straps from the local hardware stores for some of my hanging sign projects on an old Roadmaster I had & rat rod straightbar projects -- I will post some pics now & others when I find them of what I had -- hope it helps to get you further along or finish off you bicycle -- good luck -- Frank

*This one is my reliable rusty that I have for many years as my work bike
 & I will be riding this one for the Tour de Fat event this weekend in Los Angeles




This is one I sold that I made the copper straps for & added patina to the straps 




Here is a close up 




This is a rat rod I built up a while back & sold with galvanized straps*


----------



## Cambot1981 (Dec 23, 2010)

*repop baskets?*

I have a roadmaster cyclotruck like these. I was told years ago that it was a 1940 or 41, but I have no idea. I pulled it out of a junk pile not far from my grandmother's when I was maybe 19. It was missing the rear fender, the basket and mounts, the head badge, and everything beneath the lower headset cup had been cut off with a hacksaw. I made a fork out of a schwinn sting ray fork and the head tube that was still held into my frame by the bearing races. I would very much like some measurements so I can make a bracket and basket for mine. If I can get enough measurements to make an accurate copy I could make three or four sets all at once. It looks like some strap and angle iron, some thin steel plate, and some expanded sheet metal would be about all I would need to go buy. If anyone has a basket and mount bracket they would be willing to measure or make arrangements with me so I could take measurements please let me know. It seems there are several of us who need these parts to complete our little oddities. Maybe we could form some kind of owners group or registry?


----------



## basementchoppers (Dec 29, 2010)

Is mine a CW? or a Road Master? I thought it was an Armstrong....


----------



## basementchoppers (Dec 30, 2010)

I tried a Road Master head badge today and it was close but was off about 1/4 bolt hole.  The frame number is D08143.  Any help with an identity?


----------



## Strings-n-Spokes (Dec 30, 2010)

Dr Phil (RMS37) would know about the different possibilities of badges on a CW Cleveland Welding made cycle truck Roadmaster was one of the brands that Cleveland Welding made

I have never seen anything but a Roadmaster badge on a CWC cycle truck. It does look like a CWC frame to me, so it would be cool if it did have an Armstrong badge.


----------



## tony d. (Jan 18, 2011)

modle 2010 was made between 1937 and 1941


----------



## Vintage Velo (Jan 18, 2011)

One for sale on ebay now. Search roadmaster cycletruck


----------



## flat black kustoms (Feb 6, 2011)

I NEED a basket mounting bracket for this frame! Can anyone help me?


----------



## flat black kustoms (Feb 6, 2011)

I havent been on here in awhile , But I will get some measurements from my frame! Was your bracket mount cut off of the frame?


----------



## scook2 (Jun 13, 2011)

I have what I think is a 1938-39 RM CT.  It was may Dad's childhood bike and he had it repainted and minor restore done for me around 1970.  The seat and fenders are not original and I would like to find period correct ones and a basket as I would like to have a complete restoration done.  Any ideas?


----------



## tony d. (Jun 13, 2011)

good luck I'v been looking for a basket for two years I mite make my own  I have enough pictures


----------



## Aerocycle36 (Jun 14, 2011)

I have a couple of these things along with 12 Schwinn cycletrucks, I'll measure the head tubes for you. I think that I have 3 or 4 sets of NOS forks for the Roadmaster truck bikes, I'll see if I can dig up a set.


----------



## bricycle (Jun 14, 2011)

scook2 said:


> I have what I think is a 1938-39 RM CT.  It was may Dad's childhood bike and he had it repainted and minor restore done for me around 1970.  The seat and fenders are not original and I would like to find period correct ones and a basket as I would like to have a complete restoration done.  Any ideas?View attachment 22339




Looks like the fore-runner of the "Krate" bikes....


----------



## Rust_Trader (Jun 15, 2011)

*Anyone has a complete roadmaster ct for sale*

Does anyone have one for sale? 

Aerocycle36 would you sell one.? 

Thanks


----------



## Aerocycle36 (Jun 18, 2011)

Sorry Greens07, I'm in the process of weeding out all of my postwar bikes but I'm keeping all of my prewar stuff


----------



## Rust_Trader (Jun 20, 2011)

No problem thanks, later down the road if you want to sell one let me know.


----------



## Rust_Trader (Jun 27, 2011)

*Roadmaster cycle truck*

Hello Everyone

Does anyone have a front fender and clip and an original sign plate for a RM cycle truck?

Please if you have one and want to sell it let me know.

Thanks


----------



## fxo550 (Jan 27, 2012)

*My RM CT*

L@@k at my sprocket,this is the RM correct sprocket?


----------



## supper15fiets (Jan 27, 2012)

mmm...i don't know but Phil will know...but i think the fenders are also wrong...at least the front fender has to be 20" instead of 24"...


----------



## Aeropsycho (Jan 27, 2012)

*.....*



fxo550 said:


> L@@k at my sprocket,this is the RM correct sprocket?




No it is not...


----------



## axsepul (May 30, 2012)

I must say that I've enjoyed reading all 7 pages. Great info here. I have a few questions though. 

Which was the first company to have the great idea to put a 26" on the back and a 20" on the front?  Schwinn, Cwc, worksman cycle or other?

Does the name cycle truck solely belong to schwinn and if so how were these bike called back then? Was it just delivery bike? 

Anybody knows when worksman started to make their version? 

Thanks! Xavier


----------



## Attackma (Jun 2, 2012)

If you don?t mind posting the serial number from the bottom of the crank hanger I will add it to the CWC serial number data base.

Thanks


----------

