# A question for the paint prep experts...



## guzziworksman (Aug 6, 2022)

I'm restoring a '38 Raleigh X Frame...It's been glass bead blasted; two coats of a high-build primer. My plan is to paint it in a satin black enamel, with clear coats to give it a nice, but not over-the-top shine. More of a gleam. Anyways...there are still small former rust pits, here and there on the frame. What would you experts do? Glazing compound to fill, sand with 180, another coat of primer? Or...? I've put a lot of work into this bike - I'm not afraid of a bit more. Thanks!!


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## GTs58 (Aug 6, 2022)

I've used both primer and glazing compound depending on how deep the pits or chips are. I don't know if your "satin" paint is real heavy bodied paint, doubt it, but you need to sand with at least a 600 grit before painting.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 6, 2022)

that is what the high build primer is for. prime and sand, repeat as needed.


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## Archie Sturmer (Aug 6, 2022)

Depends on the severity of the pitting; was thinking that 280-grit might work in between the primer coats.


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## guzziworksman (Aug 6, 2022)

The pitting isn't all that deep - but deep enough, that the high build primer won't make the pits go away. . I'm guessing glazing compound, sand it, reapply primer.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 6, 2022)

a pit that will not get filled by high build primer on a bike frame would be a hole.

good luck with your paint. 🙂


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## GTs58 (Aug 6, 2022)

A high build primer in a spray can isn't jack compared to the primer you get in a can, mix and spray with a gun. If it's going to take 4 or more coats of primer with sanding between coats, then use a glazing compound. A primer in a rattle can wouldn't really be a high build in my book.

Here's some stupid that I deal with on a daily basis at work. This is part of a metal guard on one of the machines we sell. These are some factory paint touch ups on a brand new machine that I have to clean up. Three little chips you can see underneath that big mess and some tiny scratches at the top is what they were touching up. I don't have half a day to deal with this kind of stupid before we ship the machine out.


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## WetDogGraphix (Aug 6, 2022)

guzziworksman said:


> I'm restoring a '38 Raleigh X Frame...It's been glass bead blasted; two coats of a high-build primer. My plan is to paint it in a satin black enamel, with clear coats to give it a nice, but not over-the-top shine. More of a gleam. Anyways...there are still small former rust pits, here and there on the frame. What would you experts do? Glazing compound to fill, sand with 180, another coat of primer? Or...? I've put a lot of work into this bike - I'm not afraid of a bit more. Thanks!!



Pictures will help!


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## guzziworksman (Aug 7, 2022)

Here's a typical pit...


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## guzziworksman (Aug 7, 2022)

As an add-on question...I just read that, clearcoat will not adhere properly to a paint finish more than 8-10 hrs. old. Is this true?


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## WetDogGraphix (Aug 7, 2022)

guzziworksman said:


> Here's a typical pit...View attachment 1675972



Is this the 2 coats of primer? Have you done any sanding yet? If not, sand and keep priming it. On some of my projects, I've primed and sanded 20 times or more... (But I'm also a fan of glazing, red and green, even white glaze)


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## guzziworksman (Aug 7, 2022)

That's just two coats of primer, with no sanding.  I'm going to keep at it, for sure.


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## Rusthound (Aug 7, 2022)

In my opinion the frame looks like it needs a complete good sanding.   You should end up with smooth bare metal with small grey looking dots. Re prime and do it all again until the surface is very smooth.  (nothing courser than 220 240grit) It's not s good thing to put primer over non sanded primer. The longer you can leave the primer on before painting the smoother the final sand  (600 or finer) will be.  Auto primer takes about 14 days to cure. 
Big pits I think a 2 stage finishing putty would be best.  I think those could come out with repeated prime and sand.   Prep is 90% of getting a nice paint job.   Shops can't wait so they do the color sand a polish.


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## GTs58 (Aug 7, 2022)

Rusthound said:


> In my opinion the frame looks like it needs a complete good sanding.   You should end up with smooth bare metal with small grey looking dots. Re prime and do it all again until the surface is very smooth.  (nothing courser than 220 240grit) It's not s good thing to put primer over non sanded primer. The longer you can leave the primer on before painting the smoother the final sand  (600 or finer) will be.  Auto primer takes about 14 days to cure.
> Big pits I think a 2 stage finishing putty would be best.  I think those could come out with repeated prime and sand.   Prep is 90% of getting a nice paint job.   Shops can't wait so they do the color sand a polish.




What the heck kind of primer takes 14 days to cure? That's ridiculous!


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## guzziworksman (Aug 12, 2022)

A belated thanks to all who've responded to this post. I've heeded the collective advice...priming, sanding, filling, repeat...and I'm amazed how well the surface is shaping up. I've never prepped this much before - and the results are impressing me.


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## dasberger (Aug 12, 2022)

I've had good luck with the Duplicolor sandablel primer... like others have said should be bare metal with grey dots once pits are filled then prime sand and repeat until happy with finish


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## Late To The Party (Aug 12, 2022)

Highly recommended to use a guide coat.  Basically you wipe on the primer and sand till its all gone, if there is still some in the pits you need more primer, re-guide coat and start over again till really smooth.  You should be using a hard sanding block, not a soft one as they conform to dips and prevent you from getting it truly laser straight.   This stuff is better than nearly anything and it truly is a life time supply, even if you do cars.  You can cheat and use a black spray can dusting but this sands so much easier.


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## GTs58 (Aug 13, 2022)

guzziworksman said:


> As an add-on question...I just read that, clearcoat will not adhere properly to a paint finish more than 8-10 hrs. old. Is this true?




Since that question really can't be answered other than with a yes and no, I'll answer your question with a Question. What specific products are you using?


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## guzziworksman (Aug 13, 2022)

I'm using Rustoleum products. Satin Canyon Black with a gloss Clearcoat. I'm doing this to be able to control the sheen I wind up with - plus, I'll be pinstriping and applying decals that I'd like to clearcoat over. I talked to someone at Rustoleum...their advice: apply the clearcoat within an hour after applying the color coat - or after 48 hours. He said it has to do with the volatiles (primarily acetone, I seem to remember him saying) evaporating from the surface of the color coat. He said there'd be no problerm if I observed those application times.


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## Archie Sturmer (Aug 13, 2022)

guzziworksman said:


> Rustoleum. within an hour  - or after 48 hours.



Sounds like the directions often written on the side of the paint can; Rust-Oleum is fairly consistent, and some products have different timelines.


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## GTs58 (Aug 13, 2022)

So Rustoleum's lawn furniture Enamel. 
There is a recoat window on most all spray can Enamels, and adhesion after the Enamel cures varies with product and the finish you are spraying over. So a satin black will need to be sanded or chemically prepped before a new coat of any paint can be applied to cut down the sheen/gloss so the final paint coat will adhere. If that's the route you're taking, I suggest using a flat black for your base color coat for better overall clear enamel adhesion.


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## guzziworksman (Aug 13, 2022)

Yep - that's what it said on the can. I just had a bit of a worry..."advice" I found on the internet (not on this site)  told me lots of things that didn't necessarily line up with those directions. Hearing it from the mfr. just kind of eased my feeble mind.


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## WetDogGraphix (Aug 13, 2022)

guzziworksman said:


> A belated thanks to all who've responded to this post. I've heeded the collective advice...priming, sanding, filling, repeat...and I'm amazed how well the surface is shaping up. I've never prepped this much before - and the results are impressing me.



That's exactly what it takes..... I use a lot of Scotch pads for scuffing the primer before paint, and paint before clear. 
Different color pads are  different coarseness...  red, green, gray, white.....
But, I don't have any orange peel when I paint, ever......





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						Amazon.com : scotch brite sanding pads
					





					www.amazon.com


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