# Auction score of the year?



## thatonejohn

So, while perusing the local auction website looking for an interesting auction (my dad taught me well), I came across a picture of a bicycle.  Nothing was mentioned about it in the listing, just this picture.  






After figuring out what it was, I consulted Nickinator on a good ballpark value, and deemed it was worth the 3 hour drive to a little town on the edge of the Bighorn Mountains (plus it was very scenic).  It was an estate auction for a well known collector of indian artifacts, so while the artifacts were bringing in thousands of dollars, I was biding my time and watching people to see if anybody appeared serious about the bicycle.  I overheard a couple of guys talking about giving it a "refinish" and bringing the seat down to some shop to get redone, everybody else just loved the look of it.  So, the time for the non-artifact big ticket items came, and the double sided porcelain GMC truck sign went for 5 grand or so, between a guy in the room and a phone bidder, so I was starting to worry that there could be some serious interest in the bike.  A couple signs later, the bike was up, and luckily, there was no phone bidder for the bike.  Also, nobody in the room had done any research on it.  So, I won it at a good price after bidding against one other person.  Turns out the family and the auction company thought nothing of the bicycle, and were surprised that it brought what it did.  So, as a grad student, I can actually afford to keep it.  

I talked with the son of the bike owner and one of the auctioneers after the auction.  The auctioneer said that the owner rode it all around town, and to high school.  The son said that the bike has been sitting in the grainery on their property since before he was born, which I estimated him to be about 60 years old.  He wasn't sure how his father had aquired the bike, so, it could possibly be a single owner bike, but it's not certain.  The only thing I'm not certain on, is how the bike came to be dressed in glittery red handlebar grips. 

When I got it home, after smiling the whole way home, I found a tattered, but original, wiring diagram for an Auto-Cycle in the tank.  Bonus!

So, without further ado, here's a bunch of pictures. There's a couple comments, due to the 10 image limit, and I have some questions about the bike after the pictures.



 
 904


 
 906


 
 944


 
 955


 
 946


 
 948


 
 952


 
 956


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## thatonejohn

Speedometer:


 
 945

Tank:


 
 926


 
 911


 
 909


 
 908


 
 963

Under the seat:


 
 924


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## thatonejohn

So, here are the questions I have about owning this bike:

 It's a Mead Ranger, is it a him, or is it a her?

 I'd like to clean it, what is the safest way of cleaning the paint?  Nickinator warned me about the white pinstriping and how easy it is to remove.  So, what has worked for people? Also, what are the opinions on dirt and grease?  would cleaning diminish the value at all? I'm also concerned about marring the paint on/around screws and bolts if it gets disassembled, is it something that I should leave intact to avoid that risk?

 The year of the bike, I know the serial number starts with an X, and that it's common to get a year by pulling the crank out, but what do people think?

 A value, just for insurance purposes, the bike isn't for sale (unless it's a ridiculous offer, like you want to pay off the entirety of my student loan debt).

 What is this rivet for?  It's the same style rivet as the fender brace rivets, yet there's rubber between it and the fender.  Both sides of the fender have it.



 

 Parts, it could use a few things, but I'm in no rush due to my limited budget.
a.) Tires and handlebar grips, what would the original grips have looked like?  and tires, I know Made in the USA is important, but what style/brand originally came on it?  The bike came with a spare tire that matches the front tire, both are Davis Deluxe from Western Auto Stores, but the tread is separating. Rear tire was made in Japan.
b.) Battery holder bar thing, I'm missing it.
c.) Air pump, I have brackets for it, but no idea what the correct model would have been.
d.) Delta light lens, one of mine is busted.  Says delta across the lens.  Any ideas?
e.) Fender Ornament: My ornament has been broken off, what is the correct style?  I've seen at least two different styles of greyhounds.

These postings have this style

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?22481-WTB-Cycleplains-and-autocyles-Will-pay-5k-to-15k-for-a-nice-one 




http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?31740-1937-38-Deluxe-Autocycle-Mead-Ranger-by-Schwinn 




And this posting has this style

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?37108-Mead-Ranger-Fender-Ornament 




This is my base, and I'm not sure either style is correct, as it appears the first style has some decoration that extends further down the support, and I would think that a portion of the decoration would be visible on mine.  Also, the curvature of the support on the front of the emblem doesn't appear to match.


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## kos22us

its a him, i use boiled lin seed oil to clean the paint which it brings out nicely, you dont need to scrub just apply & wipe off and seems to protect the finish for the future pretty well too, others im sure will have other cleaning methods or products, i would deff. remove the dirt & grease and this will not decrease any value of the bicycle, this is somthing i would carefully take apart ... clean and put back together, others will be able to answer alot of your other questions     great score


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## jd56

Wow....my wife would have my ass if I came home with this one....only because she would surmised I mortgaged the house to get it.
Nice score. I really don't know the value as I don't know much about the Meads. But he's a beaut!!! Love the tank!!
Nick is right to warn you of the painted on pinstriping. Use extra care when cleaning. Bon Ami mixed with some warm water has been suggested to me for such cleaning.
WD40 and very fine steel wool (0000 grade) works well with removing years of dirt and grime...again , care needs to be taken...don't not scrub too vigorously. But this method has great results.
If it were mine, I would just wash it, polish and service it. It is a true survivor. Well worth a 6 hr round trip drive. 
Can't help on the serial prefix of "X". 
Value.....more than I can afford!!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## stoney

My god what a beautiful bike. I would have driven a day each way for that. Super find. Wash it gently, grease and oil mechanicals and polish it with a quality car wax. That's all I would do. That paint is gorgeous. Someone said boiled linseed oil, sounds easy enough, I'm sure it will work fine. Post pics when "he" is cleaned up.


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## stoney

I was super excited years ago when I got a beautiful '41 Columbia F9T in about the condition of your Ranger at an auction for $175.00. I would have crapped my knickers with your Ranger. My favorite bike colors are maroon and Ranger brown. As you said, "keep it". That bike is a life long keeper.


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## wspeid

JD, it would have been a 31 hour drive, so you would have had time to come up with something.  

You know I'm a big fan of the "do grocery shopping the night before to get half the purchase price as Cash Back and then cover the rest with a check" routine takes the sting out of things when the wife looks over the checking account.


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## cyclingday

1938 model year.
 Rear fender rivets were to guard against fender rattle between the rack brace. 
 The Delta headlight lenses can be purchased from Classicriders right here on the Cabe.
 Wes Pinchot can straighten out any of the fender dings. He's also here on the Cabe.
 The Whippet ornament is a pretty easy find on e-bay, they seem to pop up fairly often.
A careful light cleaning with NO! abrasives, and you're done. The bike really only looks to be dusty, you won't need to do much, so be really careful.

Congrats! You really did hit the auction score of the year.

$8,000 to $10,000  would be a pretty reliable estimate for a bike so complete and so original, in such excellent condition.


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## bricycle

Definately the find of the year, maybe decade.....


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## Gary Mc

Listen to cyclingday on cleaning it.  Congratulations & I agree that may well be the Auction Score for the year 2013!!!!!!!!!!  That bike is absolutely beautiful as is, fix the few minor items & ride & enjoy it for many years to come.  Make sure to go through all the mechanicals with new grease & oil.  Most of us only dream of a find like that.  Pretty amazing it went under the radar.


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## dfa242

It's nice to know they're still out there - good for you.


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## scrubbinrims

For the condition, components, desirability, and cost, I think you have the frontrunner for auction score of the year...and I tip my hat to you.
On rarity, I have you beat, but I had to pay an arm and a leg for this '36 Colson Commander in a MA auction this past April.





I would second the motion of not using anything abrasive, the climate up there was very kind to this machine as it is, nothing more than a damp terry cloth and some greased lighting/mean green in caked grease areas.

The honey color of the pogo saddle is outstanding btw and I personally would never ride the bike with it on.

So, if you want to pm me where your college loans are at, by all means.

Congrats, Chris


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## mruiz

I am still looking at the pics,  for some time now.....
 Mitch


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## Larmo63

Cyclingday covered almost everything.....The pumps are nearly impossible to find, take

the pump brackets off carefully maybe until you find one. Scour eBay....? This is a really

great bicycle, fix the rear fender crunch, again carefully, have an expert do it.....I wouldn't

touch it with steel wool, it doesn't need it. wipe carefully.....! Keep us posted.

Good luck!!!


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## vintage2wheel

*wipet emblem*



cyclingday said:


> 1938 model year.
> Rear fender rivets were to guard against fender rattle between the rack brace.
> The Delta headlight lenses can be purchased from Classicriders right here on the Cabe.
> Wes Pinchot can straighten out any of the fender dings. He's also here on the Cabe.
> The Whippet ornament is a pretty easy find on e-bay, they seem to pop up fairly often.
> A careful light cleaning with NO! abrasives, and you're done. The bike really only looks to be dusty, you won't need to do much, so be really careful.
> 
> Congrats! You really did hit the auction score of the year.
> 
> $8,000 to $10,000  would be a pretty reliable estimate for a bike so complete and so original, in such excellent condition.




marty is spot on with the value...


I have a extra wipet emblem in the case if you are interested


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## bricycle

sell me your rowdy horn????


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## Nick-theCut

What a score!  Did anybody ask what you got it for yet? ($$$) It's the score of the year, unless you paid through your ears on this one.
Something tells us all, you did well.  
I love Rangers, congrats!


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## jd56

You're probably right, my mention of WD40 and 0000 steel wool probably was NOT the best advice.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Rear Facing Drop Out

*nice mead*

I don't see a 8-10 thousand dollar but at least a 5!. Really very very nice! I have a dog I can let go cheap.  Part of the paw is curoded of but the rest looks sweet.


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## ohdeebee

Rear Facing Drop Out said:


> I don't see a 8-10 thousand dollar but at least a 5!. Really very very nice! I have a dog I can let go cheap.  Part of the paw is curoded of but the rest looks sweet.




I agree. The Mead badged bikes don't seem to bring the same cheese as the Schwinn badged models.


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## kccomet

i dont see 8 to 10 either and im not just saying this because id like to buy the bike. its in ranger scheme. they dont seem to pull the money as much as the others, and i do love my rangers. that being my take any way, that said the condition would bring it to the top of the food chain. its a beautiful bike, its exciting to know bikes like this in this kind of condition are still out there. ok im waiting for the ranger hate mail


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## bikewhorder

Its a beautiful find of course, but I agree 8-10K is a stretch, If I owned this bike and someone offered me 8k for it I would sell it in a heartbeat!


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## Ozark Flyer

No hater here.  I'm a Ranger fan and lovin it.  I might even love it at $8K.


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## bikesnbuses

VERY NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!Thats what keeps us all hunting and collecting!!!!!!!


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## Dan the bike man

Beautiful bike! It's hard to find bikes that nice for retail prices let alone for a "good price". Nice to know not everyone watches "pickers"! Yep, I'd say you get the award!


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## thatonejohn

Thanks guys for the awesome information so far.  I'm hoping more people chime in.

I guess I'm not terribly comfortable saying what I paid for it, as I'm a Minnesotan and don't want to brag too much, but lets just say that anybody on the cabe would have paid what I paid for it (and the wives should agree after explaining that you just turned x amount of money into 12+ times that worth of bicycle).  It wasn't cheap for a generic cruiser bicycle, but definitely cheap for what it is.  

In the fender ornament realm of things, are there any good resources for looking at a wide variety of them?  Has anybody compiled a guide?  I'm not convinced that the ones talked about in the thread are what was on it.  Even if it's not correct, I like the story of the guy in Wyoming who rode it around town, and that this is his bicycle.  If it was changed by him at some point back in the day, it would have been a period correct accessory, and I like that.  Sure, the whippet/greyhound may be correct, but the ones presented here just don't have the same base.  I may pick up the correct one someday, but right now I'd like to know what was on it.  I think the key is the curvature of the base and support.

The pictures were all supposed to be linked to the full size images, but using the picture as an url apparently doesn't work (worked in the preview though).  I'll see about editing the posts to have the url to the full size image too.


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## Larmo63

I'd go for the dog Shaun has offered, but I like things complete. If you later found 

something else, the dogs are market value. If this bike came up at Copake as-is,

It would easily make $8K+. It's very rare and I like Rangers too.......!


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## Larmo63

This is the pump you are looking for.....


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## Honestherman

what Market do you need to hit for people to pay 8.000 to 10.000 for this Bike?
I think it is a Beautiful and Cool Bike.
Thats a lot of money.

I worked at an Auto Auction years ago.
They had Free Beer there for anyone who had a bidder number.
Does anyone wonder why they gave Free Beer?


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## cyclingday

Honestherman said:


> what Market do you need to hit for people to pay 8.000 to 10.000 for this Bike?
> 
> The owner specified, that the bike was not for sale, but for insurance purposes, that he'd like to know the value.
> $8,000 to $10,000 is what it should be insured for.
> If he wanted to sell it, my guess is, that if he listed it for $4,000 it would sell in about two seconds, and that he'd still be doubling his money.
> If he listed it for $5,000 it would sell in about ten minutes.
> If he listed it for $6,000 it would sell in about an hour.
> If he listed it for $7,000 it would sell in about twelve hours.
> If he listed it for $8,000 it would sell in about twenty four hours.
> A totally over restored Autocycle sat for about a month or so, last year, with a $10,000 dollar price tag. We all thought that it was wishful thinking, but to everybody's surprise, that bike eventually sold for its asking price.
> This bike is far and away, a better bike than that one was.


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## scrubbinrims

Correct me if I am wrong, but this bicycle appears to be the smallest size and would play into value as well.
I also wonder as Schwinn or big roller collectors get there autocycles, just how many are left with the ability and would engage in an auction full throttle?
Chris


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## THEGOLDENGREEK

That is one nice Ranger you bought and found there for sure. She cleaned up very nice ....Enjoy it !!


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## prewarkid

*A/C*

My two cents,
This bike is in very nice condition when it comes to the paint.  I value it in the $6k- $8k range.  The first reason I price it at this range is because its a Ranger. The second reason is that is has silveray lights instead of the highly desired seiss, $600 value.  Third, it doesn't have a fender bomb $500-$600 value.  Fourth. It doesn't have the brake components for this year, Shorty lever, cable and drum.  $1k value.   If it was a schwinn badged  bike with all the goodies I  would easily be a $8-$10k bike. 

Joey.


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## Nickinator

When I was asked what it was worth, I said 5-6 unseen  after seeing the bike in pictures i valued it at around 6,500 strong. I cant wait to see the bike in person as its an incredible find, I also want to ride it lol but we will see how that goes.

Nick.



prewarkid said:


> My two cents,
> This bike is in very nice condition when it comes to the paint.  I value it in the $6k- $8k range.  The first reason I price it at this range is because its a Ranger. The second reason is that is has silveray lights instead of the highly desired seiss, $600 value.  Third, it doesn't have a fender bomb $500-$600 value.  Fourth. It doesn't have the brake components for this year, Shorty lever, cable and drum.  $1k value.   If it was a schwinn badged  bike with all the goodies I  would easily be a $8-$10k bike.
> 
> Joey.


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## thatonejohn

scrubbinrims said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but this bicycle appears to be the smallest size and would play into value as well.
> I also wonder as Schwinn or big roller collectors get there autocycles, just how many are left with the ability and would engage in an auction full throttle?
> Chris




So, what do I measure to determine the frame size?  I saw there are different sizes from an old Schwinn brochure, but it wasn't clear on what that measurement consisted of.  

Also, would the smallest size likely be worth less than the other sizes? or are they show pieces and the size is fairly irrelevant?  I saw somewhere in my browsing that somebody didn't like the largest size because it made the slope of the straight bar look odd.


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## scrubbinrims

thatonejohn said:


> So, what do I measure to determine the frame size?  I saw there are different sizes from an old Schwinn brochure, but it wasn't clear on what that measurement consisted of.
> 
> Also, would the smallest size likely be worth less than the other sizes? or are they show pieces and the size is fairly irrelevant?  I saw somewhere in my browsing that somebody didn't like the largest size because it made the slope of the straight bar look odd.




Size matters to those that ride these vintage bicycles and many in our hobby do just that.
Measure from the center of the bottom bracket (holding the crank) up the seat tube until the point of the seat post opening.
I believe there are 3 sizes and I am going from memory here at 16, 17, and 18 inches.
Speaking for myself, I would spend more money on the larger size all things being equal as I am no pip-squeak.
Chris


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## Larmo63

I personally do not like the tall frame size in this model. The geometry seems

all off to me. Your bike is fine, frame wise. It's a true American treasure.


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## thatonejohn

Ok, so from the center of the crank, to the top of the seat tube/seat post opening, is 18 inches.  The 1938 Schwinn catalog lists the size options as 16, 18, and 20 inches.


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## Honestherman

cyclingday said:


> Honestherman said:
> 
> 
> 
> what Market do you need to hit for people to pay 8.000 to 10.000 for this Bike?
> 
> The owner specified, that the bike was not for sale, but for insurance purposes, that he'd like to know the value.
> $8,000 to $10,000 is what it should be insured for.
> If he wanted to sell it, my guess is, that if he listed it for $4,000 it would sell in about two seconds, and that he'd still be doubling his money.
> If he listed it for $5,000 it would sell in about ten minutes.
> If he listed it for $6,000 it would sell in about an hour.
> If he listed it for $7,000 it would sell in about twelve hours.
> If he listed it for $8,000 it would sell in about twenty four hours.
> A totally over restored Autocycle sat for about a month or so, last year, with a $10,000 dollar price tag. We all thought that it was wishful thinking, but to everybody's surprise, that bike eventually sold for its asking price.
> This bike is far and away, a better bike than that one was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what Market do you need to hit for people to pay 8.000 to 10.000 for this Bike?
> 
> 
> All these words. But.....  What market do you hit for SOMEONE to Pay 8,000 to 10,000 for THIS BIKE? WHERE. 98% of America does not have this money to pay for a Bicycle. Especially this year.
Click to expand...


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## cyclingday

Honestherman said:


> cyclingday said:
> 
> 
> 
> what Market do you need to hit for people to pay 8.000 to 10.000 for this Bike?
> 
> 
> All these words. But.....  What market do you hit for SOMEONE to Pay 8,000 to 10,000 for THIS BIKE? WHERE. 98% of America does not have this money to pay for a Bicycle. Especially this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since the crash of 2008, world record prices have been paid for classic and antique vehicles across the board.
> Bicycles, Motorcycles, and Automobiles.
> If it's top teir, and in good condition, it will sell. guaranteed! For how much depends on which heavy hitters are in the market on any given day. Go back and look at the auction records, and you will see a $24,000.000 Ferrari, a $500.000 Cyclone motorcycle, and a $16,000 Schwinn Autocycle.
> All top shelf stuff, for sure, but so is this bike.
Click to expand...


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## RustyK

Honestherman said:


> cyclingday said:
> 
> 
> 
> what Market do you need to hit for people to pay 8.000 to 10.000 for this Bike?
> 
> 
> All these words. But.....  What market do you hit for SOMEONE to Pay 8,000 to 10,000 for THIS BIKE? WHERE. 98% of America does not have this money to pay for a Bicycle. Especially this year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a lazer beam focus market...bike collectors. Bring it to the right people and it sells for huge bucks. The South Dakota auction wasn't the right market, but that is ideally where you would find them. The bike would easily go for the big green at the Copake bicycle auction.
Click to expand...


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## prewarbikes4sale

*Yes*



cyclingday said:


> Honestherman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Since the crash of 2008, world record prices have been paid for classic and antique vehicles across the board.
> Bicycles, Motorcycles, and Automobiles.
> If it's top teir, and in good condition, it will sell. guaranteed! For how much depends on which heavy hitters are in the market on any given day. Go back and look at the auction records, and you will see a $24,000.000 Ferrari, a $500.000 Cyclone motorcycle, and a $16,000 Schwinn Autocycle.
> All top shelf stuff, for sure, but so is this bike.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree 100%
Click to expand...


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

That is an amazing find... Wow.. I wouldn't touch anything on it!... Leave that dent and just clean her up a bit.. I second not ridding on that saddle..... Experience with vintage old seat death Whist ridding


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## Larmo63

I would ride the piss out of that bike.......!


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## Gary Mc

Larmo63 said:


> I would ride the piss out of that bike.......!




Me too!!!!!!!!!!


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## bikewhorder

*A serious question*

This bike has been unsold several times @$3500,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mead-Ranger...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 

Is the bike in this thread really $4,500 better?  Yeah its got pogo seat and the speedo but $4500 is a lot of coin.


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## Gary Mc

bikewhorder said:


> This bike has been unsold several times @$3500,
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mead-Ranger...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> 
> Is the bike in this thread really $4,500 better?  Yeah its got pogo seat and the speedo but $4500 is a lot of coin.




I like Joe & have bought items from him with no problems.  However another CABE member had a serious problem with a bike bought from him.  Add to that his descriptions are a little "gruff" and I think scare people away.  His bike to me is nowhere near as nice as this one plus the Pogo saddle & speedo are $2500 worth of items.  Knowing they are original on this bike & this bike appears to be unmolested as it hasn't gone through a series of collector upgrades, yes I think it's worth the extra coin but that's just my opinion.


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## Nick-theCut

I hope this doesn't rub anyone the wrong way, I certainly mean no offense... At all.

It's crazy when both the seller and buyer are unaware of the value.  He probably scored the bike for the value of the pogo seat alone. Kudos!
Granted it was sold in an auction setting, but there wasn't a high reserve.  We all wish we were there that day.


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## bikewhorder

Nick-theCut said:


> I hope this doesn't rub anyone the wrong way, I certainly mean no offense... At all.
> 
> It's crazy when both the seller and buyer are unaware of the value.  He probably scored the bike for the value of the pogo seat alone. Kudos!
> Granted it was sold in an auction setting, but there wasn't a high reserve.  We all wish we were there that day.




But how high would you have gone? I would have dropped out @ $3500 knowing that I couldn't afford to keep it and I was going to have to try to sell it as soon as I could.


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## Nick-theCut

bikewhorder said:


> But how high would you have gone? I would have dropped out @ $3500 knowing that I couldn't afford to keep it and I was going to have to try to sell it as soon as I could.




...$3501!!!


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## dougfisk

bikewhorder said:


> This bike has been unsold several times @$3500,
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mead-Ranger...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> 
> Is the bike in this thread really $4,500 better?  Yeah its got pogo seat and the speedo but $4500 is a lot of coin.




I think it is a phenomenon of collectibles/antiques that price progressions at the upper limits are not proportional or arithmetic (or logical?).  Someone it seems is often willing to pay 50% more for the last 5% of collector interest.


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## dougfisk

bikewhorder said:


> But how high would you have gone? I would have dropped out @ $3500 knowing that I couldn't afford to keep it and I was going to have to try to sell it as soon as I could.




FWIW - My interest runs out at $2500.  I *try* to remain true to my inner voice which says I like what I like and am unmoved by how others value something.  Whenever I buy something because it seems a bargain (by others assessments) I usually end up regretting it.


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## bike

*Just 99% of the people on this site*

would not or could not spend 1k on a bike
does not mean there are people who wont mortgage their house to buy one- also some people drink a 10k bottle of wine for dinner- 
just cause that is not in your world does not mean it does not happen.


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## markivpedalpusher

bikewhorder said:


> This bike has been unsold several times @$3500,
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mead-Ranger-All-original-bicycle-/331046359662?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d13e6926e&nma=true&si=EPV9jEULErRFw9Vt9wx4Sa42sHY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> 
> Is the bike in this thread really $4,500 better? Yeah its got pogo seat and the speedo but $4500 is a lot of coin.






Comparing that standard Mead motorbike to this Mead AC is almost like comparing apples and oranges.

My personal "auction score of the year" was an NOS EA pancake horn with red tracer wire including an NOS Flipper Horn Button $175 shipped


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## thatonejohn

Nick-theCut said:


> I hope this doesn't rub anyone the wrong way, I certainly mean no offense... At all.
> 
> It's crazy when both the seller and buyer are unaware of the value.  He probably scored the bike for the value of the pogo seat alone. Kudos!
> Granted it was sold in an auction setting, but there wasn't a high reserve.  We all wish we were there that day.




I was aware of the value as I'm definitely not new to the bicycle scene, I've been tagging along to swap meets since the early 90's with my dad, gifarmer, I just haven't been paying attention to high end schwinns, but it was crazy that nobody else put 2 minutes into researching it.  This is my first valuable bike though.  There were over 100 bidders registered at the auction.  I was extremely lucky that nobody else did their homework, and that's the reason I can afford to keep it on a grad student budget.  Bidding started out at $100, with $25 increments, that went up to $50 increments after $200, and we didn't reach $100 increments (which would've probably started at $500).


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## RustyK

*!*



thatonejohn said:


> I was aware of the value as I'm definitely not new to the bicycle scene, I've been tagging along to swap meets since the early 90's with my dad, gifarmer, I just haven't been paying attention to high end schwinns, but it was crazy that nobody else put 2 minutes into researching it.  This is my first valuable bike though.  There were over 100 bidders registered at the auction.  I was extremely lucky that nobody else did their homework, and that's the reason I can afford to keep it on a grad student budget.  Bidding started out at $100, with $25 increments, that went up to $50 increments after $200, and we didn't reach $100 increments (which would've probably started at $500).




Congrats man, hell of a score. Who does their homework and shows up wins. Hope to see it somewhere at a ride or other event here in Minnesota!


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## Djshakes

cyclingday said:


> Honestherman said:
> 
> 
> 
> what Market do you need to hit for people to pay 8.000 to 10.000 for this Bike?
> 
> The owner specified, that the bike was not for sale, but for insurance purposes, that he'd like to know the value.
> $8,000 to $10,000 is what it should be insured for.
> If he wanted to sell it, my guess is, that if he listed it for $4,000 it would sell in about two seconds, and that he'd still be doubling his money.
> If he listed it for $5,000 it would sell in about ten minutes.
> If he listed it for $6,000 it would sell in about an hour.
> If he listed it for $7,000 it would sell in about twelve hours.
> If he listed it for $8,000 it would sell in about twenty four hours.
> A totally over restored Autocycle sat for about a month or so, last year, with a $10,000 dollar price tag. We all thought that it was wishful thinking, but to everybody's surprise, that bike eventually sold for its asking price.
> This bike is far and away, a better bike than that one was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No offense Marty, but I think your valuation is high.  I'm assuming you base it on the prices you pay and often times people scratch there heads at the prices you pay.  People in this hobby know you tend to pay at the top of the scale when it comes to bikes.  This isn't a bad thing so please don't take this as a dig.  However, there have been very few jewel tank autocycles that sell over the $8K range and these are Schwinns, not rangers.  I personally have known about four jewel tankers that fetched the $8K plus range.  Obviously, I am not aware of every bike that has sold but this is a small hobby and word does travel.  The bikes that have sold for more than this were awesome original example Schwinns with all the options (drums, double duties, etc.)
> 
> I would personally value this bike at $6000-6500 and I think for that price it would sit at a swap for a while and possibly not sell.   You would have to find someone really interested and looking for one.   $4500-5000 would be a no brainer buy it to flip price but more than that I think collectors would shy away.  If it were a Schwinn it would sell for more.
> 
> The unfortunate thing is this market is always propped up by only a handful of heavy hitters at a given time.  Normally someone that is new to the hobby and enthusiastic (and often not very savvy).  Sometimes they get taken advantage of and often times as their collecting progresses so do their tastes.  They no longer buy everything and pay retail plus 20%.  Once there are no more collectors like this prices stabilize until the next new guy comes in. You will not see Seiss lights selling for $850 and fender bombs for $1000.  Hell, the guys collection long enough could probably name the few major consumer guys going back 20 years and the list isn't very long.
> 
> I want this market and my bikes to be worth as much as possible, so don't get me wrong.  However, none of us can will the market in the direction we want it to go.  It is what it is.
Click to expand...


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## bricycle

Who cares what it's worth. It was a super deal AND a teriffic bike. Keep it and enjoy it. Find something you like better, then sell it if need be....


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## kccomet

less than 500 ok..... you did all right. i find it funny that every one is so wound up what this bike is worth, that being a bike thats not for sale. yea i put my two cents in earlier  about it not being an 8000 dollar bike. thats just my thoughts. funnier still not just the price but the time table to sell the bike. at 20 thousand it would sell in six years. once again the condition is fantastic who really knows what some one will pay for anything. if i was into bikes, i am.. and a multi millionaire im not whats 25000 if you want it. i give my props to the buyer for not turning a super quick super profit. but when you do go to sell it aim for the moon like every body else not a mere 8000. my vote score of the year congrats


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## dougfisk

Djshakes said:


> ...The unfortunate thing is this market is always propped up by only a handful of heavy hitters at a given time.  Normally someone that is new to the hobby and enthusiastic (and often not very savvy).  Sometimes they get taken advantage of and often times as their collecting progresses so do their tastes.  They no longer buy everything and pay retail plus 20%.  Once there are no more collectors like this prices stabilize until the next new guy comes in.....  Hell, the guys collection long enough could probably name the few major consumer guys going back 20 years and the list isn't very long.




I have come to agree; this is amongst the thinnest "markets" imaginable.  It will only take one or two people to lose interest or move on and lookout below...  :eek:  Don't get into it for the money!


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## looneymatthew

*Brilliant*

I would agree, killer score by far. One of the best this year i have seen on this forum.
And i also agree as a orig. Unmolested survivor it is a treasure. 
Just thought i would chime in. 
 Lucky find./ it wont probably happen again so enjoy it. Congrats.  Its a keeper for sure




thatonejohn said:


> so, while perusing the local auction website looking for an interesting auction (my dad taught me well), i came across a picture of a bicycle.  Nothing was mentioned about it in the listing, just this picture.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> after figuring out what it was, i consulted nickinator on a good ballpark value, and deemed it was worth the 3 hour drive to a little town on the edge of the bighorn mountains (plus it was very scenic).  It was an estate auction for a well known collector of indian artifacts, so while the artifacts were bringing in thousands of dollars, i was biding my time and watching people to see if anybody appeared serious about the bicycle.  I overheard a couple of guys talking about giving it a "refinish" and bringing the seat down to some shop to get redone, everybody else just loved the look of it.  So, the time for the non-artifact big ticket items came, and the double sided porcelain gmc truck sign went for 5 grand or so, between a guy in the room and a phone bidder, so i was starting to worry that there could be some serious interest in the bike.  A couple signs later, the bike was up, and luckily, there was no phone bidder for the bike.  Also, nobody in the room had done any research on it.  So, i won it at a good price after bidding against one other person.  Turns out the family and the auction company thought nothing of the bicycle, and were surprised that it brought what it did.  So, as a grad student, i can actually afford to keep it.
> 
> I talked with the son of the bike owner and one of the auctioneers after the auction.  The auctioneer said that the owner rode it all around town, and to high school.  The son said that the bike has been sitting in the grainery on their property since before he was born, which i estimated him to be about 60 years old.  He wasn't sure how his father had aquired the bike, so, it could possibly be a single owner bike, but it's not certain.  The only thing i'm not certain on, is how the bike came to be dressed in glittery red handlebar grips.
> 
> When i got it home, after smiling the whole way home, i found a tattered, but original, wiring diagram for an auto-cycle in the tank.  Bonus!
> 
> So, without further ado, here's a bunch of pictures. There's a couple comments, due to the 10 image limit, and i have some questions about the bike after the pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 904
> 
> 
> 
> 906
> 
> 
> 
> 944
> 
> 
> 
> 955
> 
> 
> 
> 946
> 
> 
> 
> 948
> 
> 
> 
> 952
> 
> 
> 
> 956


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## SJ_BIKER

*this is hilarious*

This bike is esentially a schwinn....minus the badge, decals, .....the chrome fork has a schwinn key i bet.........id get some coke grips from ebay and ride the heck out of it till the wire blows on the speedo.....as far as what its worth......its worth what some one will pay for it....record your offers and settle for the best one thatll keep this gem together.....if you were closer id fix that fender free of charge with my roller.....splendid find...well done


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## cyclingday

dougfisk said:


> I have come to agree; this is amongst the thinnest "markets" imaginable.  It will only take one or two people to lose interest or move on and lookout below...  :eek:  Don't get into it for the money!




People have been spelling doom and gloom for the antique bike market since the 1970s.
A guy just bought a Cycletruck basket for $1,675.00 dollars!
Not the Cycletruck, just the basket!
But you know what? It was original and super clean. Go find another super clean original big basket and try to get it for cheap. It's not gonna happen!
It ain't cheap, but quality never is. Buy the best and sell the rest!
I seem to remember at the Spring Copake auction, that a certain bike collector from San Diego under estimated the value of a jewel tank Autocycle that he wanted real bad, and got trumped by a pretty savvy collector from Wisconsin, who didn't under estimate the value, and now has the finest jewel tank Autocycle known to exist residing nicely in his collection. Thank you very much!
These things cost what they cost. Sometimes a super nice 1938 Ranger Champion can be had for $250 bucks, and sometimes not.
But, I still say, that for insurance purposes, it should covered for at least $8,000.


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## Djshakes

cyclingday said:


> People have been spelling doom and gloom for the antique bike market since the 1970s.
> A guy just bought a Cycletruck basket for $1,675.00 dollars!
> Not the Cycletruck, just the basket!
> But you know what? It was original and super clean. Go find another super clean original big basket and try to get it for cheap. It's not gonna happen!
> It ain't cheap, but quality never is. Buy the best and sell the rest!
> I seem to remember at the Spring Copake auction, that a certain bike collector from San Diego under estimated the value of a jewel tank Autocycle that he wanted real bad, and got trumped by a pretty savvy collector from Wisconsin, who didn't under estimate the value, and now has the finest jewel tank Autocycle known to exist residing nicely in his collection. Thank you very much!
> These things cost what they cost. Sometimes a super nice 1938 Ranger Champion can be had for $250 bucks, and sometimes not.
> But, I still say, that for insurance purposes, it should covered for at least $8,000.




That bike was a perfect example of my point about thin markets.  Two bidders, me being one of them drove it up.  My bidder was at the actual auction and said if only one of us had been bidding it would have went for $8K (all other bidders dropped off after that).  That's right, it would have sold for what you're quoting this bike.  

No one is saying the bicycle market is going to end up like the pedal car market but to think a cycletruck basket will consistently bring $1675 is foolish.  I remember a collector paying $800 for a pair of Seiss lights.  The same Seiss lights just sold for $375 with the brackets.  When you build a compare group you remove the anomalies from the sample size to get a good benchmark.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

Im going to throw up.. Did he really score that for 250!?!!?


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## Tim the Skid

Judging from the hints dropped in post #56, it was less than $500. Good for him. Everyone should have the chance to experience a jackpot at least once in their collecting life. Great looking bike, and I agree best score I've seen in a long while.


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## dougfisk

Djshakes said:


> That bike was a perfect example of my point about thin markets.  Two bidders, me being one of them drove it up.....




I often look at the bids on ebay items that I have watched.  Invariably, if an item seems to have has brought a high price, there will be 2 bidders that carried it up.  Bidders 3, 4, & 5 will have dropped off well behind.  I have sensed a dropoff recently in the prices of various bikes and parts of the type that I have followed and bought.  I half think it is because, I, having bought mine, am no longer bidding!!!  :eek:


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## Xcelsior

*Nice ranger!*

I know 3 things that are true...
1. No one person is always right
2. Most everybody is usually wrong
3. When you're ready to sell, I'm buying..

That's what I call market control.   People who argue about costs, values, prices... MONEY, are usually only in it for money... They care more about the money into and or out of it than any other aspect of collecting.  Sad but true.  Please don't spend too much time thinking about what it's worth, rather ride it and ENJOY it.  Or stare at it, dream about it, love it, smell it, feel it, talk to it and put it to bed at night.  Because as of right now, it's only worth about 400.


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## Djshakes

The very owner of this website sent me a story to put on my website about ten years ago about losing out on a bike exactly like this.  The owner wanted $800.  He left a message about the bike on Friday and the collector didn't check his messages until Sunday. At that point the owner's son decided to take it. I thought it was the very same bike because it had those funky red grips. Below are links to pictures.  Fortunately for all of us the bikes are still out there.

http://www.bicyclechronicles.com/#!scottlose4jpg/zoom/c1k20/image18w0

http://www.bicyclechronicles.com/#!scottlose3jpg/zoom/c1k20/image5f5

http://www.bicyclechronicles.com/#!scottlose2jpg/zoom/c1k20/image1obn


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## Djshakes

Xcelsior said:


> People who argue about costs, values, prices... MONEY, are usually only in it for money... They care more about the money into and or out of it than any other aspect of collecting.  Sad but true.  Please don't spend too much time thinking about what it's worth, rather ride it and ENJOY it.  Or stare at it, dream about it, love it, smell it, feel it, talk to it and put it to bed at night.  Because as of right now, it's only worth about 400.




The original poster asked about the value on the bicycle for insurance purposes.  We're simply replying with our opinion.  That doesn't mean we are only into the hobby for money.


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## Xcelsior

I'm referencing to other comments made. Savvy?


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## WES PINCHOT

*1938 ranger autocycle*

This is a wonderful find. 
The value is priceless!
Just wash it down with mild soap and water.
Wipe it dry and do nothing more.
Don't even think of selling it.
It is a once in a life time find.
Wes pinchot


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## Xcelsior

An insurer whether it be your home or private, is not going to care about values and estimates made by forum members.  They will only care about what was paid at auction.  Maybe if there was substantial evidence or receipt of an exact item at auction or publicly purchased reported by a reputable source for , they would.  If he wants to insure it for 8,000. Then he can and should.  But, he's going to need something to show that it is worth that much.  Like his 400.00 auction receipt.  Or a list of items sold on eBay from a parted out ranger that brought 8000. Because, show me another one exactly like that one that recently sold in this thinning market.  Like there's so many of these things out there.


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## Djshakes

My guess is an insurer won't know the difference between a ranger or a Schwinn.  They would probably just match it from pictures.  Find a Schwinn that sold recently and I think it will be enough proof.  Hell, you could probably show pictures of an aerocycle and they wouldn't care as long as you were paying the premiums.


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## thatonejohn

Thanks guys for all of the input.  I'll post a picture of the wiring diagram once I get it into some stiff plastic, and I'll definitely figure out how to properly insure it for that 8-10 grand.  Depending upon my school workload, I might get a chance to clean off some of the dust over Thanksgiving, otherwise it might be winter break.  He will definitely make an appearance in Minnesota, not sure if it will be at the Penn Cycle meet, or the annual fall ride, as it depends on what I find for a job.


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## GenuineRides

*winner winner*

Winner Winner chicken dinner, for the buy of the year!

Have fun with it, ride it but be gentle and enjoy the conversations people will have with you when you do ride it.  Because you have so little into it don't get romanced into selling it because of the profit, but enjoy the fact you have very little invested into an iconic and classic ride.

GenuineRides


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

GenuineRides said:


> Winner Winner chicken dinner, for the buy of the year!
> 
> Have fun with it, ride it but be gentle and enjoy the conversations people will have with you when you do ride it.  Because you have so little into it don't get romanced into selling it because of the profit, but enjoy the fact you have very little invested into an iconic and classic ride.
> 
> GenuineRides




Wonder what became of this?


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## thatonejohn

*Update 2/17/14*

The plan is to clean it up over spring break (March 8-16). I've been acquiring a few things, like a nice set of vintage whitewalls, delta lenses, and a fender ornament.  I brought it home to my parent's house in Minneapolis over winter break and unexpectedly ended up working at my old job instead of making it pretty.  Minnesota in March isn't too friendly for taking a ride on it, but I should be able to get some decent pictures.


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## walter branche

*my ranger*

years ago ,i was on my way to work at the schwinn museum in chicago ,jim hurd asked me to stop in stutgart arkansas to look at this bike , when i arrived on the scene it was 7 fifteen , in the morning, the elderly couple was eating breakfast ,, when they invited me in the home , he handed me the photo of the ranger autocycle ,, i told him i would offer 1,500 , and if he did not like my offer he would have to tell me what he wanted ,, .. his wife was hugging me before i completed my words ,, after i payed the money and put the bike in my van.. I asked him ,now that we have finished the transaction ,,how much would you have sold it for ,,he told me he had it for sale locally for over a year for 200.00,and never heard a word,, a few days later i got a letter from them thanking me for being good on my price and the letter came with a newspaper article about me ,coming to town to buy a 200.00 bike for 1,500, they thought it was a dream ,, i sold the autocycle for 3,500 24 hours later ,, walter branche/ pickin and grinnin.. thanks everyone for sharing, your words and stories,


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## hoofhearted

*Totally-Enjoyed Reading This Entire Thread .. Again ......*

*Bumpin' it back into the sunlight ........*


...............  patric



=====================
=====================


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## willswares1220

There's always more treasures out there waiting to be discovered!

That's what keeps the "hunt" going.


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## thatonejohn

Well, since somebody else has bumped it back up, here's a before and after.  The after is from the annual fall ride in Minneapolis, September 2014.


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## Cory

And most importantly,  how does it ride? Do you like it? I had a huge score earlier in the year with a motorbike and used the that bike to get cash for my property tax bill and 2 more bikes I like riding more. Have you considered trading out for cash and something you like more? It worked great for me anyways.  Cheers!


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## markivpedalpusher

4th quarter 2014 best auction score original fender bomb $55 shipped!


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## thatonejohn

Cory said:


> And most importantly,  how does it ride? Do you like it? I had a huge score earlier in the year with a motorbike and used the that bike to get cash for my property tax bill and 2 more bikes I like riding more. Have you considered trading out for cash and something you like more? It worked great for me anyways.  Cheers!




It rides nice, shifter needs a little adjustment as it doesn't fully engage low gear, and the cockpit is on the small side for me (I'm 6'1).  No selling/trading ideas yet, but when the day comes, it will probably be exchanged for something else that is interesting and old...


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## cyclingday

hoofhearted said:


> *Bumpin' it back into the sunlight ........*
> 
> 
> ...............  patric
> 
> 
> 
> =====================
> =====================




 That was an interesting re read. Thanks for bringing it back into the sunlight, Patric.

 To, thatonejohn.
 When you have your two speed shifter in the high gear position, the cable should not have any tension on it. Adjust it, so that it is just barely slack, and it will shift perfectly in both gears.
They are very simple and reliable units, but the common mistake, is having the cable taught in the high gear position. It needs to be, just a little slack, when the shift lever is in the forward position.


----------



## thatonejohn

cyclingday said:


> That was an interesting re read. Thanks for bringing it back into the sunlight, Patric.
> 
> To, thatonejohn.
> When you have your two speed shifter in the high gear position, the cable should not have any tension on it. Adjust it, so that it is just barely slack, and it will shift perfectly in both gears.
> They are very simple and reliable units, but the common mistake, is having the cable taught in the high gear position. It needs to be, just a little slack, when the shift lever is in the forward position.




Easier said than done in this case.  The metal tab that limits the forward motion of the lever is snapped off, so finding that sweet spot is a little difficult.  I haven't put much effort into finding a fully functioning replacement shifter lever, but so far the ones I've seen all say New Departure Two Speed on them, and this one has no markings on it.  At some point, they had jury rigged another piece of metal in there to act as the stopper, but it doesn't work too well.  I'll have to tinker with it over winter break, although I'm not going to ride it in the salt.


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## Spence36

I'd rather be lucky than good any day !! 


Cruising my Prewar Schwinn [emoji605]


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## Spence36

I sold a clean 1940 tall frame  champion ranger this year wasn't as original as yours but it brought $6500 . I wouldn't think yours is a an 8k bike all day bud nice score !!!! Just be easy on washing it then wax it just like your car.The paint On  These bikes are better than any paint  today !! Always be careful around the pin stripes other than that keep it love it ride it forever ! It's like you won the lottery of bikes !! Just enjoy it find what's missing or Broken and enjoy it !! If so it will
Become your families heirloom !!  Awesome find and beautiful bike !!! 


Cruising my Prewar Schwinn [emoji605]


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## cyclingday

Spence36 said:


> I sold a clean 1940 tall frame  champion ranger this year wasn't as original as yours but it brought $6500 . I wouldn't think yours is a an 8k bike all day bud nice score !!!! Just be easy on washing it then wax it just like your car.The paint On  These bikes are better than any paint  today !! Always be careful around the pin stripes other than that keep it love it ride it forever ! It's like you won the lottery of bikes !! Just enjoy it find what's missing or Broken and enjoy it !! If so it will
> Become your families heirloom !!  Awesome find and beautiful bike !!!
> 
> 
> Cruising my Prewar Schwinn [emoji605]




 Check out post #83. 
This thread is over a year old. 
I think the trophy standing next to the bike, kind of speaks for itself as to how well this bike is being taken care of.
 Good advise, just a little late on this one.


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## Spence36

Haha well it's new
To me just read it !! 


Cruising my Prewar Schwinn [emoji605]


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## thatonejohn

*Wiring diagram*

Well, over a year later, here's a scan of the wiring diagram from inside the tank.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

thatonejohn said:


> Well, over a year later, here's a scan of the wiring diagram from inside the tank.
> 
> View attachment 184355



Very cool.....weird it's cut like that?!


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## Luchotocado

This was a fun thread to read. Ill revive it.


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