# More info on this Belknap ladies bike?



## bikemonkey (Apr 16, 2017)

Hi,

This one came by the shop briefly yesterday - it has been in the family since it was new. It is a barn bike and too far gone to do a restoration without paint and chrome work so the owner will hang on to it for now.ir

I mentioned he may want to part it out before it deteriorates further so it can help folks doing restorations of the same model bike but are missing parts.

If someone could give me a date range, I will research it further. I take it that Belknap was a hardware store and this bike may have been made for them by the Huffman Company.

It has holes in fenders for skirt guard and a block chain (skip tooth chain).

Thank you for your consideration and Happy Easter!


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## Freqman1 (Apr 16, 2017)

I'd give that thing a good OA bath and I bet you would be surprised at how much color comes back. Can't pin it down right now but I don't think Huffman. V/r Shawn


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## fordmike65 (Apr 16, 2017)

Freqman1 said:


> I'd give that thing a good OA bath and I bet you would be surprised at how much color comes back. Can't pin it down right now but I don't think Huffman. V/r Shawn



Snyder built?


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## Fltwd57 (Apr 16, 2017)

Here's a 1940 catalog ad...


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## bikemonkey (Apr 17, 2017)

I think I found a pretty close match for the year and manufacturer for the Belknap. So I guess this bike is an Elgin/Belknap with YOP between 1933 and 1940.

Here is a a pic of a Sears 1933 catalog showing an Elgin ladies "Swallow" model.

 of the ad.


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## bikemonkey (Apr 17, 2017)

Fltwd57 said:


> Here's a 1940 catalog ad...
> 
> View attachment 451854



Great pic! Thanks so much!


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## fordmike65 (Apr 17, 2017)

bikeymonkey said:


> I think I found a pretty close match for the year and manufacturer for the Belknap. Here is a a pic of a Sears 1933 catalog showing an Elgin ladies "Swallow" model.View attachment 452608 of the ad.



Not the same bike/frame. Martyn (@Fltwd57 ) nailed it above. 


Fltwd57 said:


> Here's a 1940 catalog ad...
> 
> View attachment 451854


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## bikemonkey (Apr 17, 2017)

fordmike65 said:


> Not the same bike/frame. Martyn (@Fltwd57 ) nailed it above.



Thank you..I just noticed the twin down tube configuration was wider at the head tube than the bike I posted.


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## Boris (Apr 18, 2017)

Restoration would only ruin this bike anyhow, and so would parting it out. In no way is this bike too far gone!!! WD40, rag, 0000 steel wool, wax, lube, and that bike will be BEAUTIFUL! If they decide to go this route, remind them that they need to be extra cautious around the pinstriping.
Hate to disagree with Shawn, but Oxalic on painted parts could easily fade the red paint. Great on chrome parts though.


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## fordmike65 (Apr 18, 2017)

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/so-who-prefers-to-preserve-the-crust.102071/


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## bikemonkey (Apr 19, 2017)

fordmike65 said:


> http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/so-who-prefers-to-preserve-the-crust.102071/



That was a very interesting thread...thank you.


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## bikemonkey (May 24, 2017)

Earlier _fordmike65 _mentioned he thought this might be a Snyder made Belknap.

Based on that lead and lots of great information posted elsewhere by _RMS37_, I am now thinking this bike was made by H.P. Snyder due to having a curved upper rear fender bridge and a triple plate fork. The Morrow coaster hub date codes as the 3rd quarter of 1937.

Is there documentation that Snyder built bikes for Belknap Hardware? Any other confirmation about the ID would be greatly appreciated.


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## Freqman1 (May 24, 2017)

Dave Marko said:


> Restoration would only ruin this bike anyhow, and so would parting it out. In no way is this bike too far gone!!! WD40, rag, 0000 steel wool, wax, lube, and that bike will be BEAUTIFUL! If they decide to go this route, remind them that they need to be extra cautious around the pinstriping.
> Hate to disagree with Shawn, but Oxalic on painted parts could easily fade the red paint. Great on chrome parts though.




I guess I should have put the industry standard disclaimer: "test this product on an inconspicuous area first"! I've also seen it wash out other colors. V/r Shawn


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## fordmike65 (May 24, 2017)

Let's get a pic of the bottom bracket. That'll give us some info.


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## bikemonkey (May 24, 2017)

Bottom bracket


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## fordmike65 (May 24, 2017)

bikeymonkey said:


> Bottom bracket



This is what I was referring to.


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## bikemonkey (May 24, 2017)

Freqman1 said:


> I guess I should have put the industry standard disclaimer: "test this product on an inconspicuous area first"! I've also seen it wash out other colors. V/r Shawn




I understand about trying to revive and keep the original finish but the paint is too far gone plus it was "paint brushed" a long time ago in several places and has rattle can overspray in others. I appreciate all of the advice just the same.

The owner wants it repainted so it is going to be restored with a new (but slightly aged/faded look) wet paint job that will match the original scheme and colors. I am reusing as many parts as practical from the original bike with some upgraded correct replacement parts.

The painter is a pro in the Ohio area that has been doing this type of specialty bicycle work for 30+ years. A few of the parts have been sent out to be rechromed and some regalvinized - the saddle has been shipped to Caber _bobcycles_ to be restored.

CABE has been a great resource for information on this restore - it is the earliest bike I have worked with like this, and the first repaint since I got out of the bike business in the late 1980s.

Hoping to have the bike back in shop by the end of July and I will post a restoration album here when I get her rebuilt.


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## bikemonkey (May 24, 2017)

Upper view of bb.

PIc 1

Pic 2 (cropped but lower resolution)


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## Krakatoa (May 24, 2017)

Snyder built, Little Falls NY.


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## bikemonkey (May 24, 2017)

Krakatoa said:


> Snyder built, Little Falls NY.



Awesome! You guys rock - 'preciate the insights _fordmike65_!


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## fordmike65 (May 24, 2017)

bikeymonkey said:


> Awesome! You guys rock - 'preciate the insights _fordmike65_!



Yup. You got a Snyder there. Telltale BB "Volcano" joints.


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## bikemonkey (May 24, 2017)

Thanks! I try to learn something new everyday...


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## Freqman1 (May 24, 2017)

bikeymonkey said:


> I understand about trying to revive and keep the original finish but the paint is too far gone plus it was "paint brushed" a long time ago in several places and has rattle can overspray in others. I appreciate all of the advice just the same.
> 
> The owner wants it repainted so it is going to be restored with a new (but slightly aged/faded look) wet paint job that will match the original scheme and colors. I am reusing as many parts as practical from the original bike with some upgraded correct replacement parts.
> 
> ...




There are only a couple of times when a restoration makes sense; if its a rare bike and you bought it right, or if it has sentimental value. Otherwise you are throwing money away. Fortunately this seems to be a case of the latter. Perfectly restored this is a $200-300 bike tops. Not sure what they will have in it but the last one I did like this cost me a shade over $2k for a bike maybe worth $600. The look on her face was priceless though when she got her birthday present! Good luck and keep us posted on progress. V/r Shawn


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## bikemonkey (May 25, 2017)

Thanks, I agree completely. The Belknap has a lot of sentimental value, it belonged to the current owner's grandmother with some interesting family history surrounding it. Owner was told he was exceeding the "value" many times over in this restore - he does not care.

That is a beautiful bike you posted and a wonderful picture of the owner.


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## rustjunkie (May 25, 2017)

Luv this old gal
With less effort and money than a "restoration" this bike will clean up very well.
My opinion:
If it's sandblasted and repainted, it will never look better than a sympathetic cleaning/rehab.
It'll be shiny, but will lose all the originality that makes it what it is; no longer the bike as Grammy experienced it.
 It will not age gracefully and won't achieve the patina and character it already has.


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## bikemonkey (May 25, 2017)

rustjunkie said:


> Luv this old gal
> With less effort and money than a "restoration" this bike will clean up very well.
> My opinion:
> If it's sandblasted and repainted, it will never look better than a sympathetic cleaning/rehab.
> ...




I agree. The owner was given four options on the way forward on this bike (with my opinion on what option I wold pursue if it were mine). He made his choice and is paying the bill with no hassles so he gets his choice.

With the exception of a rechromed bar and stem we are not hanging shiny new parts back on it but period used parts with fairly good chrome. We asked the painter to give us an aged/slightly faded look with the paint job so we will see how it turns out.

I respect everyone's opinion on this and have gained significant insights in preserving crust and doing minimal "rustorations" that I have passed on to my last two customers.


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