# What do I have?  Pre war? Noob needs help



## CaptBrent (Apr 3, 2022)

I got this bike for free. It's not rusted, I think it's all there minus the badge, and it actually works. The crank is stamped "AS&Co" and there's a serial number on the rear drop P94444.  Nothing on the bottom of the crank housing minus a mold mark. Looks like it was painted red originally with white pinstripes that look hand painted.  I've searched and read a ton of posts but need the guidance of those wiser and now experienced than myself.  Here are my questions:

What year and model is this?
What's the correct badging?
Should I repaint and if so, what color would best match the original?
Should I have any of the metal parts rechromed, like the bearing races on the crank, the crank, and headset.?

Any other hints or comments are greatly appreciated.


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## GTs58 (Apr 3, 2022)

CaptBrent said:


> I got this bike for free. It's not rusted, I think it's all there minus the badge, and it actually works. The crank is stamped "AS&Co" and there's a serial number on the rear drop P94444.  Nothing on the bottom of the crank housing minus a mold mark. Looks like it was painted red originally with white pinstripes that look hand painted.  I've searched and read a ton of posts but need the guidance of those wiser and now experienced than myself.  Here are my questions:
> 
> What year and model is this?
> What's the correct badging?
> ...




Are there pictures coming? The serial dates the bike to the first of the 2nd quarter 1955.


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## CaptBrent (Apr 3, 2022)

Sorry, my pics evidently didn't post. They should have now.


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## HEMI426 (Apr 3, 2022)

Welcome to the Cabe.


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## GTs58 (Apr 3, 2022)

Welcome to the Cabe Brent. It appears your 55 Schwinn is a balloon model and has been stripped of its original parts and then rebuilt with various parts from different makes. The wheels are drop centers and the fenders look like prewar pieces. Sprocket is from a different make and the frame is minus any paint details so I think the frame was repainted. If you plan on fixing it up, I'd just do a nice custom making it a rider. 

Check out the catalog scans for 1955.   https://waterfordbikes.com/SchwinnCat/flschwinn_1951_1960/index.html


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## CaptBrent (Apr 3, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> Welcome to the Cabe Brent. It appears your 55 Schwinn is a balloon model and has been stripped of its original parts and then rebuilt with various parts from different makes. The wheels are drop centers and the fenders look like prewar pieces. Sprocket is from a different make and the frame is minus any paint details so I think the frame was repainted. If you plan on fixing it up, I'd just do a nice custom making it a rider.
> 
> Check out the catalog scans for 1955.   https://waterfordbikes.com/SchwinnCat/flschwinn_1951_1960/index.html



Well, not what I wanted to hear, but what I NEEDED to hear. Thank you. I'm going to paint it red, pinstripe, just clean the chrome, and put new rubber on it then. Or should I just part it out? And what is the correct badge for the 55?


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## GTs58 (Apr 3, 2022)

That's a good piece for doing a build to suit your tastes if you're interested in fixing it up.


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## CaptBrent (Apr 3, 2022)

I am. What would you recommend? I'm searching for the lines here. Keep the bottom bracket and drop link chain drive or replace with a sealed bracket and alloy wheels? Just not sure what to do. I don't want to spend more than the bike's worth but I don't want to eff up a piece of history with a bad resto. I've done cars, motorcycles, and even a Jap bike, but I don't have any history with vintage Schwinns.


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## GTs58 (Apr 3, 2022)

The canvas is clean, so do what you would like that's within your budget. Check out the pieces in this thread. 









						What Rat-Bike did you ride today? | Custom Bicycles
					

Took the Shelby out for a spin. Nice riding and fun bike. I always have to look back at the picture of the day I dragged this old boy home. It was not a pretty sight. Covered in rust and heavy silver paint.   Got this bike on a trade.  Notice the 1953 Monark Rocket on the rear fender.




					thecabe.com


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## Jeff54 (Apr 3, 2022)

It has a bolt on kickstand and frame is a flat or straight bar so, at 55 then, it's a Hornet. Also, a 55 Hornet had S7 wheels with that New Departure brake. Hard to see or tell but for the front fender bracket might be original or at least Schwinn, that could have been where Chain guard came from but the chain guard would have been a different type on a 55 Hornet. Maybe, chain guard, wheels and fender are part of an older Schwinn Ballooner. The rear fender bracket is an aftermarket universal replacement. And as GT said, not a Schwinn front sprocket/chain wheel.


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## bloo (Apr 3, 2022)

I can't find anything in the 1955 catalog with a B model frame that also has that chainguard. Hornet and Spitfire seem like the most likely possibilities for what it was. The wheels are off of another bike. They take the same tire size as the originals though. I imagine it originally had a normal 1/2" pitch chain, and since it still has the Schwinn crank, someone changed the chainwheel to skiptooth to work with those wheels.

If you wanted to look like 1955, I believe you need the "Phantom" chainring, something of a misnomer because they were used on a bunch of models. They are more expensive than some other options. If it was a year to two newer it would have had the Schwinn cloverleaf, and those are cheap and plentiful.

I don't believe the rear fender came with it, it is probably aftermarket.

Welcome to the CABE!


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## GTs58 (Apr 3, 2022)

Both the 55 Hornets and the Spitfire straight bars are balloon models that came equipped with Schwinn S-2 rims, not the S-7 rims that Jeff54 referred to. The 1" drive train was phased out for the most part at the end of 1954.

Doing a full correct restoration in my opinion would not be option considering what you are actually starting with.

Here's a 1955 Spitfire that sold here on the Cabe. 








						Sold - 1955 Schwinn Spitfire 26 X 2.125 | Archive (sold)
					

Original Paint, 3 Speed Shimano Rear Hub.  rode today Works in all 3 gears. $385.00 Shipped Bike Flights.




					thecabe.com


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## CaptBrent (Apr 4, 2022)

Well, I made the right choice with this forum 👍🏻 Frankly, I NEVER could have sussed all this out.

Armed with this info, I THINK it's a spitfire frame, headset, seat, and maybe crank. The ring is unmarked, as previously stated, probably changed out to fit the rear hub. So the droplink didn't come on that year Spitfire? The rear wheel is an S2 with the new departure hub, the front wheel is an S7. It appears I have a collection of parts that bolt together.  🙄

If that is correct, then I think my three options are:
1-sell as parts so someone else can have a whole bike
2-sell the rear hub, wheel, and chain, put a 1/2" S7 wheel on the back to match the front and either the Phantom chainring on it or a cheaper clover leaf (if that works)
3-just repaint/stripe as is and call it a day.

Regardless, I need a Spitfire head badge.

Okay, if I'm correct on what I gleaned from everyone's comments (many thanks, everyone!) I'm interested to hear what YOU would do with Frankenbike.

(Spitfire info follows)


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## CaptBrent (Apr 4, 2022)

Whoops. One disconnect. And as someone previously posted, I THINK the two rims are S2s, but the rear is enameled and the front is chromed


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## Rivnut (Apr 4, 2022)

The Wasp pictured above is a cantilevered frame model.  IF your rims are S2s, they will have be stamped SCHWINN TUBULAR S2 in the knurling between the spokes.


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## CaptBrent (Apr 4, 2022)

Rivnut said:


> The Wasp pictured above is a cantilevered frame model.  IF your rims are S2s, they will have be stamped SCHWINN TUBULAR S2 in the knurling between the spokes.





Rivnut said:


> The Wasp pictured above is a cantilevered frame model.  IF your rims are S2s, they will have be stamped SCHWINN TUBULAR S2 in the knurling between the spokes.



Sorry, meant to post spitfire specs, picked wrong file. 🙄. 

Rear rim is not stamped. Front rim is stamped MO MFG.


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## bloo (Apr 4, 2022)

Those are "drop center" rims. Schwinn did use such things once upon a time, but quit long before your bicycle was made. The MO is probably Murray Ohio, and the rims, or more likely the entire wheels came from a Murray-built bicycle.

In 1955 it would have had Schwinn's own "S2" tubular rims, They are wide and flat with an almost square profile. They have two rows of knurling on around the inside of the rim. They made them both chrome and painted. Your bike probably had painted ones. The Murray rims take the same 559mm tires (26x2.125) and can substitute for the Schwinn S2s, but do not look the same.


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## CaptBrent (Apr 4, 2022)

bloo said:


> Those are "drop center" rims. Schwinn did use such things once upon a time, but quit long before your bicycle was made. The MO is probably Murray Ohio, and the rims, or more likely the entire wheels came from a Murray-built bicycle.
> 
> In 1955 it would have had Schwinn's own "S2" tubular rims, They are wide and flat with an almost square profile. They have two rows of knurling on around the inside of the rim. They made them both chrome and painted. Your bike probably had painted ones. The Murray rims take the same 559mm tires (26x2.125) and can substitute for the Schwinn S2s, but do not look the same.



Thanks!


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## CaptBrent (Apr 4, 2022)

Special thanks to Bloo and GT. I'm choosing option 2, putting a modern 26" wheel set and drive on it from a donor bike, 1/2" chain ring, a standard Schwinn badge on the front, repaint it original red, and white pinstripe as original.  It will have a unique look, be no less original than it is now, and get back on the road with the least hassle and cost.

If anyone needs a New Departure Model D hub, drop center rims, droplink chain/cog/chainring (of unknown origin), please let me know.

Really glad I found this forum.  Thanks for everyone's patience with me as I sorted out my "intro" bike and for sharing your wealth of knowledge 👍🏻


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## GTs58 (Apr 5, 2022)

Sounds like you're heading in the right direction.  👍   You have lots of options in making a cool FrankenSpit to suit your taste. If you're going with the original paint scheme here is a link for the Hornet and Spitfire stencils.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/265608419995?campid=5335809022


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## CaptBrent (Apr 11, 2022)

Back seeing the advice of those who know. FrankenSpit has a very old and poorly done red paint job. I removed part of it with stripper and there's a faded red enamel with thin white pin stripes under i (see pic). That looks original, as there's only metal below that. That doesn't jibe with the paint scheme I've seen for that year on Spitfires.  Thoughts?


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## GTs58 (Apr 11, 2022)

I know of -0- Schwinns having pin stripes in that fashion. The later Tornado middleweight had three pins per tube. I'd have to say someone did those pins after a previous repaint. 

1957 Tornado middleweight


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## CaptBrent (Apr 12, 2022)

That chain guard looks like mine. But the stripes are different. And the paint/stripes I see below the bad repaint look original. Wonder if what I have is a Tornado?  Could the serial number lookup have been wrong?


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## vincev (Apr 12, 2022)

Have fun and be creative.Enjoy the ride.


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## CaptBrent (Apr 22, 2022)

All right, I'm having some fun with the old girl. Completely disassembled, readying for paint.  Will be a Spitfire frame job with a pre war fender paint job. Celebrate the differences, I say.   Surprised to find the chrome cleans up well.  Learned the chain ring is a CWC (Cleveland Welding Corp) 26t Paisley. CWC made bikes back in the day too.

*One last piece of the puzzle*.  The space between the head badge mounting holes on a standard Schwinn badge looks like 2 9/16", while the space on FrankenSpit is 3 1/4"". Anyone have a theory or knowledge here?  Pictures below.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 22, 2022)

CaptBrent said:


> All right, I'm having some fun with the old girl. Completely disassembled, readying for paint.  Will be a Spitfire frame job with a pre war fender paint job. Celebrate the differences, I say.   Surprised to find the chrome cleans up well.  Learned the chain ring is a CWC (Cleveland Welding Corp) 26t Paisley. CWC made bikes back in the day too.
> 
> *One last piece of the puzzle*.  The space between the head badge mounting holes on a standard Schwinn badge looks like 2 9/16", while the space on FrankenSpit is 3 1/4"". Anyone have a theory or knowledge here?  Pictures below.
> 
> ...



The older badges were larger pre '60 I believe.


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## CaptBrent (Apr 22, 2022)

Looks like I need one. Anyone have one, lemme know. And anyone wants that red badge, same thing


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## WillWork4Parts (Apr 22, 2022)

Schwinn's tall badge...I think it's easier to spot them by their fatter font. https://www.ebay.com/itm/333129846693?campid=5335809022
They made a few distinct versions for that hole pattern. Unfortunately I don't have any to go with red bike. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313962579979?campid=5335809022
https://www.ebay.com/itm/384251257706?campid=5335809022


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## CaptBrent (Apr 22, 2022)

Well, I knew was going to learn a lot when I adopted this bike! Thanks for the info. That red badge looks like the ticket, thanks for the link


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