# Went Digging today, Bicycle Graveyard, Help ID finds......



## mismith (Feb 27, 2010)

I've become pretty interested in old bikes since I got the old Western Flyer and the Black Phantom. I happened to remember the old bicycle graveyard at my Grandfather's house. I had played with all these old bikes as a kid, some were mine, some were junked out from my Dad's childhood and my Aunt's. I took all that was left under the old building. It might just all be junk but it was fun. I would like to build the Shelby but it might take some time and money. Dad went with me and said the old Shelby was his. It's funny, he said it was complete when he threw it under the building. Tell me what I have and if there's any value or is it just scrap metal.











Good Year HI-WAY PATROL






unusual fender



my old 20" Schwinn and some unusual lights that Dad said he used on a bike



unidentified small skip tooth chain ring



old girl's Columbia


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## mismith (Feb 27, 2010)

Dad's old Shelby Flyer...What year? Anybody have pics. of what it should look like?



tank looks bad but still both halves are pretty solid.






possibly the original Shelby neck and handle bars?






what's left of one Shelby fender, braces would be good


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## partsguy (Feb 27, 2010)

Here's a tip, wash ALL that mud off and then we will see what you have to work with.

Although, I could tell a couple of bikes are destined for the crusher already. But wash them off first.


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## mismith (Feb 27, 2010)

Thanks! All going to the scrap bin. Sorry I ever posted here.


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## chriscokid (Feb 27, 2010)

naw man  clean it up .... i couldn't tell you if what you have is worth anything.... surly all that rust is a sight for sore eyes and i don't care for chrome anyway,  but the frames look cool and if you feel like you have something special BUILD IT! & RIDE


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## mismith (Feb 27, 2010)

I know most all of it has very little value, just trying to learn and mainly wanted some info. on the Shelby. Year? Is the old unusual stem and handlebar for the Shelby? It would be nice to see a pic. of a Shelby Flyer like this one too. I have the skills to restore it and have restored worse. Not that I think it's of great value but it does have family history and was my Dad's. The rest of the stuff will get cleaned up and is for sale or e-bay items.


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## OldRider (Feb 27, 2010)

Don't trash or sell anything till you get some expert opinions from our friends on The CABE. Please be patient, sometimes it takes a day or two for responses! I see quite a few items in that pile that can be salvaged, I love seeing stuff like that.


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## chriscokid (Feb 27, 2010)

i like that back fender with the bumps in it.... very unusual never seen one like that before ... would that have came off the shelby? i bet your dad can tell you where it came from


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## old hotrod (Feb 27, 2010)

Stem in question is a Rollfast and was used by several brands as OE and also sold as a replacement. The fender with the bumps looks to be a Hoppalong Cassidy but I am no expert...and be patient, wash the stuff off so the paint and detail can be seen and it will help with identification...and don't be so short tempered around here...we kid because we care...


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## mismith (Feb 27, 2010)

Dad said there used to be a whole lot more bikes and parts under that building years ago. The building sets beside an old dirt road that went to the pastures on Grandpa's farm. I also remember as a little boy there being lots more. We had problems for years of people coming in and hunting without permission, power company contractors used the road regularly as well. It was just too easy to spot all those bikes under there. I did my fair share of tearing them up as a kid also. I really doubt washing any of that stuff will help. It's mostly rust. The Shelby has double stripes running down the tank and you can see Shelby Flyer on both sides. I would like to locate the parts needed to get it back together. I know it will take a while, one piece at a time. I need to see a complete one to see what I'm looking for.


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## Adamtinkerer (Feb 28, 2010)

The Shelby is 1957-62, built by AMF. They bought SHelby in 54 and after they used up the remaining Shelby parts, it was just a badge name they used. Otherwise, the same as a Roadmaster or other AMF bike of the era. They stopped using the name after 62. Neat that it's your dad's though! Dig thru the archives here and I'm sure there will be pics or old ads. Also if you can find 'Evolution of the Bicycle' Vols 1 or 2, there are a bunch of AMF ads in them! Always glad to see something saved out of one of these piles!


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## RMS37 (Feb 28, 2010)

Adding to what Adam noted, the frame is an AMF built Shelby. It is interesting because it is basically a Roadmaster style frame but modified by the factory to use the Shelby type tank. I had not seen this variant with the twin lower tank tubes before. In that sense it is unique to the Shelby line as there is no exact Roadmaster version of that frame. I would agree with Adam on the date of the frame, post the serial number (if it is readable) and it might help pin down the date. At the early end of the time range the serial number would be on the bottom bracket and at the late end it should appear on the non drive side rear drop out. 

The deep fender pictured with the bike is a Colson fender judging by the curved brace and is not factory original to the bike (nor would the ribbed stem) but they may have been early additions to it sourced from other parts bikes.


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## TOsborn (Feb 28, 2010)

Just about all those bikes look saveable if you care enough, I've saved worse.  That Shelby looks like a prime restoration candidate though!  I'd say go for it, especially since it has some family history.


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## mismith (Feb 28, 2010)

Where to start on the Shelby? Can anyone tell if the stem that's in it is right or not? I'll need some wheels, what models would work and look right? I'm not too particular with getting it 100% correct except for maybe the fenders and bars.


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## DonChristie (Feb 28, 2010)

The Shelby is cool! Definately worth restoring. I think the gooseneck in the frame is correct. The bars and gooseneck appear to be prewar. Wanna sell them? I bet it had Drop center rims. Restore it for your Dad!


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## partsguy (Feb 28, 2010)

DANG! I was gone for the weekend, BUT DON'T SCRAP THEM!!! I never said that. 

When I said, "Although, I could tell a couple of bikes are destined for the crusher already. But wash them off first."

I meant things like the rusted out girl's Columbia. but that DOESN'T MEAN it can't be salvaged. MOST OF THOSE BIKES CAN BE FIXED, I just couldn't see if I was looking at rust or mud on some of the bikes. I don't mean anything bad-I was only trying to help. I will gladly help you in your quest BUT I just asked to clean that mud off so we could see the extent of the damage.


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## Adamtinkerer (Mar 1, 2010)

"DANG! I was gone for the weekend, BUT DON'T SCRAP THEM!!! I never said that." 

Pretty sure he was kidding about that cf! ...I'd suspect the stem would be a standard Wald stem, definitely not that deco style stem. ..I was trying to pull up the Cabe photo archive and couldn't find it! I did leaf thru my Evo books and found some similar AMFs, but nothing specifically Shelby badged from those years. There's got to be an ad or pic of your dad's bike floating around somewhere though!


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## PCHiggin (Mar 1, 2010)

*Shelby*

Take the Shelby apart,have it sandblasted (media blasting won't clean it up enough for paint) and paint or powdercoat it. No reason to believe the stem isn't correct,but who cares if it is? Your Dad had fun with that bike correct or not. I'd rattlecan paint it in whatever color I prefer and have fun riding it. You'll enjoy it more just fixing it up to your liking and riding it. have fun!

Pat


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## partsguy (Mar 1, 2010)

Also, I just thought I should mention that I am trying to restore a 1978 AMF. I took out the crank and sprocket and got to cleaning them off and right on the crank appeared something that looked like a date code. I KNOW IT IS A LONG SHOT, but at least try and remove the crankshaft (if it is not out already) and clean it up and look for any stampings or engravings and let us know what you find.


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## mismith (Mar 1, 2010)

I'll see what I can do over the weekend. I'm not sure about that rear wheel (hub bearings shot anyway). It may not even be for that bike. I don't rally care but would like to find some decent chrome rims to fit it from that era. I also would like to find a decent set of fenders that would look right on it, close to original is ok, and a period handlebar for it. If you guys can help me out just send me an e-mail of stuff you have that will work on it. I will most likely sell or trade the other stuff to fix the Shelby. I don't want to spend a lot on it. I got my hands full on getting that Black Phantom back together.

see if any of these fenders would work? e-bay item # 110493351187 and 110358438243

Michael


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## RMS37 (Mar 1, 2010)

I see several directions already forming in this thread.

I’m double posting because this first post is more philosophical about what constitutes correct and original and how that may or may not be important to you regarding what you choose to do with your bikes.

The three separate areas that are being addressed as I see it are:

1. What were the bikes originally?

2. The relationship of the bikes to your family history.

3. What should be done with them now in light of the above two realities.

*Original Condition*


Every bikes starts out as a new bike at the factory and research can generally reveal a close proximity to what that condition or state was. Once a bike goes home with the first owner its history becomes a chain of events that leads to the bike in it’s as-is discovered state.

*Original Condition vs. Family History *

If the history of the bike is part of a family history, the condition the bike was in at a given point during the chain may be more interesting to the current owner than the original state of the bike when it left the factory.

The current as-is state of the bike is as much a part of the bikes total history as the condition it was in when it left the factory or the condition it was in when your father threw a complete bike under the building.  Obviously time has taken its toll but as it sits is the truest reflection of its history _to date_ and since the bike is still in the family, the as is state is as much a part of your families ownership history of the bike as any other chosen point is.

Likewise, since the bike is still in the family anything you do with the bike ranging from a perfect restoration to factory new, a functional refurbishment and rattle can repaint, or leaving the dust and dried mud intact and encasing the bike in Lucite, will also be part of your family’s history of the artifact.

*What should I do?*

Ultimately the decision of what to do with a bike is up to the current owner and in that case there is no right or wrong answer in an absolute sense. Some people will care if you use the correct stem, most won’t know or care. The same goes for everything else on the bike so the best choice is to satisfy yourself and your father as to what you want to do and achieve.   

As you said, your father remembers the bike as being complete when he left it. If that is the condition you decide you want to replicate then his memory coupled with family photographs may be more important than a factory brochure photograph toward the goal of rebuilding the bike. It is possible to rebuild what you have to an exact replication of the bike during your father’s ownership but you will need to decide what that condition was if it is not factory original and how to achieve that state.

All of the bikes in the pictures look to be deteriorated to a point where replication of any past conditional state will be labor and money intensive. 

One option it to leave the bike as it currently is because, as they say, it has almost returned to its true original state (earth). It is a perfect example of what it currently is (your father’s bike, as found).  Since it will only be a replica of your Father’s bike if you begin to replace the parts and repaint the remainder you could as easily search out an identical bike in better condition to use as a base for a replica to ride and enjoy and leave the original as is, put it in a place of honor to contemplate from time to time and have the best of both worlds at a cost below that of trying to actually replicate any previous conditional state of the original with what you now have.

As I mentioned another option is to clean up what you have, add functional parts where they are missing and repaint the bike to resemble the original paint job, then take the bike out for a ride and enjoy it as a bicycle. This way you will continue your personal family history with the original artifact and perhaps a restoration of the bike will become a generational event in your family. 

That said, and those options considered, I do fully understand the emotional desire to restore a piece of family history so while it may not be monetarily practical it is a journey worth the taking if what you want to achieve is a true restoration to replicate the bike when it was brand new.

Good luck whichever way you choose to go.

My second post is a bit more information on what you may be looking for if you choose to restore the Shelby.


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## RMS37 (Mar 1, 2010)

If you are interested in finding “correct” parts for the bike the place to start is retrieving the serial number from the frame to determine the build date, That alone will tell you a lot about the bike and what if you are not able to determine the exact correct parts you will at least be able to find period correct parts.

Given the frame and period of the bike it is more than likely that the bike was originally sold as a middleweight. It would probably have had CWC produced rims with 26x1.75 tires. 

As I said earlier this is the first CWC frame I have seen exactly like yours so without a catalog reference to the specific bike the best guess is to assume it was equipped similarly to other CWC produced bikes from the same period.

Based on that I doubt that either stem is “factory correct” the one in the bike is generally newer than the bike and the one with the ribs is definitely older. I am also suspicious that the fork may also not original to the rest of the bike. And as I said the deep rear fender with the curved brace is definitely not from the factory.

I will try to find and post some links to CWC bikes from the same period so you have a better Idea what you are looking for.


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## mismith (Mar 1, 2010)

Thanks, I would like to just get it together with very close to original period parts. I'm not concerned with factory original pieces. I cannot find any pics. anywhere of a bike just like this one. It appears that it had trusses  as it still has a bracket for them below the stem. I hope the fork is right. I was just guessing on that fender and back wheel. I found them under the building and just assumed they went with it. There were obviously many old bikes at one time under there including a Hopalong Cassidy. I just need some direction on some period wheels, fenders, truss rods, seat,handle bar, etc. I don't want to go to the expense of a correct original. We would be very happy just to see it rebuilt as a bike once again and ridden and enjoyed. I'll get the ser.# soon.

Thanks,
Michael


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## RMS37 (Mar 2, 2010)

I have done a bit more digging in my photos and believe the folded steel stem and the front fork could very well be original to the bike. An original girl’s CWC built Hiawatha from about 1959 has both.


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## walter branche (Mar 2, 2010)

i wish i had a teacher like phil; while i went to school ,, he really has a way with telling it like it is,, the most truthfull person i have never met ,, thanks RMS37 for all of your ,time and effort and sharing of information,, walter branche,,sometimes smarter than a box of rocks


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## OldRider (Mar 2, 2010)

I agree with you Walter, heres a tip of the cap to Phil Marshall!


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## mismith (Mar 2, 2010)

Thank all of you for the info. so far. I'm learning a lot and this is addictive! OK, my apologies, the bike will clean up a bit and it's not totally rust. I just started a little this evening. Here's the serial # under the bottom bracket. This bike has never been painted and I found the same red paint on the fork. I hope it's safe to say that it's most likely the original one. I cannot say for sure but the paint almost looks like candy paint. I hope you guys can date it now and I'm still hoping for a pic. of one. 

The tag on the front says Shelby Flyer and in tiny words at the bottom it reads "AMF Wheel _______ Division". I can't make out that one word and the more I clean the more the paint deteriorates. I had to stop to not ruin the plate.

Thanks,
Michael


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## mismith (Mar 2, 2010)

OK, check this bike out http://cgi.ebay.com/SHELBY-FLYER-VI...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad5768b4f 
I believe this is the girl's version of mine in question. It's the same tag, truss bar bracket,stem, fork, chain ring are all the same. The pinstripings are identical on this tank and mine, stripe and wording. This one looks like candy paint as well.


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## partsguy (Mar 2, 2010)

This bike was built by AMF, which stands for "American Machine and Foundry". Their numbers are hard to crack. Like I said, pull out the crankshaft, do some cleaning on it, and look for a number, it worked for me.

Happy Trails!


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## Adamtinkerer (Mar 3, 2010)

"I believe this is the girl's version of mine in question. It's the same tag, truss bar bracket,stem, fork, chain ring are all the same. The pinstripings are identical on this tank and mine, stripe and wording. This one looks like candy paint as well."                  Yep, sure does look like it! You might want to save a copy of that pic, usually you can save the lead pic, I do it all the time for reference. I have an older Shelby that has the same badge, I'll have to check the fine print! Also have a Roadmaster Jet Pilot that's identical to the ebay bike except it doesn't have a tank or rack.


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## RMS37 (Mar 3, 2010)

Thank you , Walter and OR, I’m touched by your comments/compliments,  Also thanks Michael for posting the bottom bracket/serial number. 

The AMF/Shelby is a 1957 model. The girl’s bike on eBay is a close if not identical companion to your boy’s model and may be from the same year as I could not discern a serial number stamp on the rear dropout in the photo (more on that below). 

AMF began in 1952 applying an XXCw suffix to serial numbers where the XX represents the year of manufacture. 52Cw was the first in this sequence and 56Cw was the last. In 1957 they dropped the numeric year code and the Cw (AMF moved bicycle production from the old Cleveland Welding factory to Little Rock Arkansas in 1956-57 so the Cw no longer had meaning.) The early style code was replaced with a single letter suffix denoting the year. If you were to assign “A” to the year 1951, (The year AMF purchased Cleveland Welding) and advance a letter at a time, G will represent 1957.

The letter year codes continue into the sixties but in 58 they were moved from the bottom bracket to the rear dropout and the letters appear to continue sequentially _only for a short period of time. _I’m still trying to unravel codes for the sixties and later bikes but I don’t have much data for those years yet.

I've been all of a sudden swamped with bike research projects so I'll dig up a couple more relevant pictures and send them on to you shortly.


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## mismith (Mar 3, 2010)

Thanks so much for your dedication Phil! Now, does anybody have any parts I need to get this Shelby back on the road?


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## mismith (Mar 6, 2010)

I assume my Shelby is actually a "middle weight"? I'm looking at some rims right now that a friend has. What width do I need to have the right rims?

Thanks!


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## Adamtinkerer (Mar 6, 2010)

Yes, it's a middleweight. Pretty much any cantilever framed bike from 1958-75 is a middleweight, aside from the Schwinn Wasp and Columbia Newsboy special. Those AMF bikes often had a square sided rim with a very small bead on the edge, but regular drop center wheels are much more common and used on later AMFs anyway. The width doesn't matte too much, as long as it isn't a 26 x 1 3/8" touring size rim, or a Schwinn S-7; both take different size tires.


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## mismith (Mar 6, 2010)

Thanks, I hope to find some other stuff as well. I have an older friend who has a bus full of bikes and parts. He has 3 or 4 Whizzer motor bikes and extra motors, tons of bike parts. He said there was probably 25-30 bikes. I know one he said was an aluminum Silverking. I may come home with more than just parts but he can be hard to deal with at times.


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## davek (Mar 12, 2010)

Hi, can you tell what modle the blue Schwinn is. Kinda looks like a world. I like that front fender.


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## ozzynut2 (Mar 16, 2010)

I'm interested in the boys schwinn frame if you want to part with it. Its not dented up or bent is it? If you want to sell it LMK


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