# Build quality of Murray bikes



## Deejay (Sep 10, 2011)

I found my first Murray bike about a year ago and recently stripped it down to bare medal for a rebuild. The paint was very thin and appeared to have no undercoat. As a result, rust had seeped through the paint. A number on the bottom of the BB reads 7904 and a sticker at the bottom of the seat tube reads Lawrenceburg, Tenn. 79 08. From this I assume the bike dates from 1979. It's a light weight with a 23-inch frame, 27-inch wheels and 10 speeds. Someone had tightened the kickstand bolt to the point that the chain stays were almost flattened and I noticed the bike wasn't built with the customary brace between the 2 stays. I won't be surprised if the geometry of the rear triangle isn't "out of whack" as a result. The welds appear to be pretty weak and the welder left blobs of copper weld in many places on the tubing. Was this company building really cheap bikes at that time? Your comments would be appreciated. PS Sorry, but I didn't take any pics before tearing it down.


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## partsguy (Sep 10, 2011)

You are correct, it is a 1979. August, 1979 to be exact. Murrays were not near as bad some of the European bike shop guys say they were. But I am aware of several union strikes. Which is why they moved from Ohio to Tennessee in the first place, which is right around the time your bike was made.

I've heard of the UAW screwing up cars in the mid 70's to mid 80's. I remember one of my shop teachers worked at a GM dealership as a teenager. A BRAND NEW Chevy they sold came back with a knocking sound. It wasn't the pistons. It turned out some hot shot on the assembly line tied a pop can to a brace inside the 1/4 panel before welding it up. So could some hot shot worker maybe have done some of these things? Possibly. Then again, some things can be attributed to a previous owner, like that kickstand bolt.

I've never seen welds that shotty on an American Murray. So it could be a worker who was in a rush, a result of a Union strike, or perhaps it was a lemon. I somewhat doubt it was the result of some strike, though. When this was made, Murray was electrically welding the frames.


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## Deejay (Sep 22, 2011)

*Freewheeling crank*

Thanks for the reply. Your reasoning of labor strife resulting in shoddy work makes sense. I'm now putting this bike back together and discovered that the crank/chainwheel assembly made by Shimano has a freewheel mechanism. It's the first time I've seen this and wonder what  its purpose is. With a freewheel in the back wheel why put another one up front unless it's to allow for backpedalling without the chain running backwards, but then who needs to backpedal? Maybe I'll see the logic when I ride it next week.


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## kngtmat (Sep 25, 2011)

I have never had a problem with Murray bikes other than normal maintenance that every bike gets, online I have heard bad stories about them by people who have the money to spend on bikes $500 & more or completely mistreat them by tossing them around & throwing them in a ditch.


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## partsguy (Sep 25, 2011)

kngtmat said:


> I have never had a problem with Murray bikes other than normal maintenance that every bike gets, online I have heard bad stories about them by people who have the money to spend on bikes $500 & more or completely mistreat them by tossing them around & throwing them in a ditch.




Exactly, the only people who have ever complained of the big American 4 (AMF, Huffy, Murray, and Schwinn) are the rich dudes who are all stuck-up about their $1000 european lightweight.


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## PCHiggin (Sep 26, 2011)

*Murray*

I had 3 as a kid and they fell apart beneath me.They looked cool (Refurbished 20" Hand me down,F-1 Eliminator and a chrome Flightliner) but were el-cheapo junk.Not anywhere near Schwinn engineering or build quality and the price reflected it. I practically begged my dad for a used red early S/R @ a local bike shop in the spring of '66.He said "I can buy a brand new bikes at Sears for less" I got neither,LOL!! One of my friends had 2 Spaceliners,his dad worked for Sears.I remember he couldn't keep a front tire on the older one  the seat was broken on the newer one and the crank was constantly loose.He hated them,they were junk.My friend found a near nos 70's Murray Sting-Ray look a like @ a garage sale a few years ago.Its a real cool looking bike,his son was tickled about it.He rode it for about a month and the hubs kept loosening,the stem always creaked, the seat clamp wouldn't tighten enough,the seat was falling apart,etc.etc.Total crap. I know some of them are very collectible and Are the coolest looking bikes out there,Hell I'd like to have a tan Monterey but just know it couldn't be ridden everyday like my Schwinns.


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## kngtmat (Sep 26, 2011)

That is weird because usually I can't get those same parts off or maybe they just love me like Christine loves Arnie in the movie and I don't think the seats could be considered Murray's fault since they didn't make them just the frame & fork, they also didn't make the cranks and stems either which I believe were usually done by Wald.


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## partsguy (Sep 26, 2011)

It has been said a million times, Schwinn NEVER built their own seats, cranks, fenders, stems, handlerbars, etc. They only built the frame, fork, and the "S" line of wheels (S-7, etc.). I don't even know if they built those.

It was how they were assembled, Schwinn even confessed to this in some of the ads. I have never has problems with Murray, Huffy, or AMF. I did have a Murray-built Spectra once. It was high-mileage bike, my first bike. Other than it showing its age, it wasn't too bad. It spun the headset bearings though, but it was 20yrs old at least and I parked it.


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## PCHiggin (Sep 27, 2011)

*???*

It doesn't matter if the main manufacturer made all of the components.They decided who made the rest of them,hence the "Schwinn Approved" label on their purchased components. Murrays cost a lot less,thats the main reason they sold. The cheaper price is also the reason they were made cheaper and why fewer of them survived.My experienced $.02

Pat


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## partsguy (Sep 28, 2011)

PCHiggin said:


> It doesn't matter if the main manufacturer made all of the components.They decided who made the rest of them,hence the "Schwinn Approved" label on their purchased components. Murrays cost a lot less,thats the main reason they sold. The cheaper price is also the reason *they were made cheaper and why fewer of them survived.*My experienced $.02
> 
> Pat





I know it sounds I'm playing devil's advocate, but if this is true why is it that when I'm picking, I've only ever found two Schwinns? I've turned up all kinds of other brands. AMF, CWC, Huffy, Murray, Raleigh, Rollfast, etc? Out of all the bikes I have turned up and parted out, only one has had serious mechanical problems and it was a '41 Hawthorne.

In my opinion, "Schwinn Approved" was a stamp that Schwinn used as an advertising gimmick and it worked quite well. The average consumer could simply believe that all the parts on a Schwinn were special with that stamping.


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## PCHiggin (Sep 28, 2011)

*Lol!!*



classicfan1 said:


> I know it sounds I'm playing devil's advocate, but if this is true why is it that when I'm picking, I've only ever found two Schwinns? I've turned up all kinds of other brands. AMF, CWC, Huffy, Murray, Raleigh, Rollfast, etc? Out of all the bikes I have turned up and parted out, only one has had serious mechanical problems and it was a '41 Hawthorne.
> 
> In my opinion, "Schwinn Approved" was a stamp that Schwinn used as an advertising gimmick and it worked quite well. The average consumer could simply believe that all the parts on a Schwinn were special with that stamping.




C'mon,You've answered your own question.You find everything but Schwinns in the trash? Thats because zillions of them are still being used or collected, not thrown away.Check e-bay for Schwinn and Murray see what has more hits. The Schwinn Approved label was no gimmick,those components were and still are lightyears better than the  other stuff. I didn't have one as a kid but knew others that did. No comparison,seriously.The thread starter asked about Murray build quality,whats the reason?
Pat


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## PCHiggin (Sep 28, 2011)

*Murray*

I keep forgetting to mention that I have a couple of early 60's Murray middleweights,boys and girls 26"ers.I think they're totally cool looking but no comparison to my Typhoons and Hornet m/ws with respect to ride or quality.

Pat


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## kngtmat (Sep 28, 2011)

I have 65/68 Stingrays but I don't know what ones they are and a men's 65 Schwinn that I also don't know what model it is but I don't think they are any better then my Spaceliner, 86 Montery, 94 Monterey or my 96 Santa Cruz.


I only see about 1 to 6 Schwinn's that are either ladies lightweights, one girls Stingray and a few mens along with Stingrays that were just reproductions while I can find Murray's, Huffy's, Western Fyler's & others in ok to brand new condition by themselves or in his/hers pairs.


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## partsguy (Sep 28, 2011)

^Exactly! When I scour the swap meets, junkyards, craigslist, barns, estate sales, I find all but Schwinns (unless you count those new chinese ones which are NOT real Schwinns). Maybe it is my area.

For the record, I haven't seen a bike on the curb in a long time. Perhaps the scrap metal prices have made people think twice about throwing away metal objects. Then again, I don't pay much attention to the curb, I pay attention to the road!


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## Deejay (Sep 29, 2011)

*The Murray now*



Deejay said:


> I found my first Murray bike about a year ago and recently stripped it down to bare medal for a rebuild. The paint was very thin and appeared to have no undercoat. As a result, rust had seeped through the paint. A number on the bottom of the BB reads 7904 and a sticker at the bottom of the seat tube reads Lawrenceburg, Tenn. 79 08. From this I assume the bike dates from 1979. It's a light weight with a 23-inch frame, 27-inch wheels and 10 speeds. Someone had tightened the kickstand bolt to the point that the chain stays were almost flattened and I noticed the bike wasn't built with the customary brace between the 2 stays. I won't be surprised if the geometry of the rear triangle isn't "out of whack" as a result. The welds appear to be pretty weak and the welder left blobs of copper weld in many places on the tubing. Was this company building really cheap bikes at that time? Your comments would be appreciated. PS Sorry, but I didn't take any pics before tearing it down.




Well, here's a pic of the Murray now. Yep, the frame needed some alignment which was easily done by bending the chain stays. They were so soft, I don't think it's going to hold up for long! The freewheeling chainwheel seems to have no purpose, except as I thought, to keep the chain stationary when backpedalling. After all the time I spent on this bike, it has to be worth $60.


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## PCHiggin (Sep 29, 2011)

Deejay said:


> Well, here's a pic of the Murray now. Yep, the frame needed some alignment which was easily done by bending the chain stays. They were so soft, I don't think it's going to hold up for long! The freewheeling chainwheel seems to have no purpose, except as I thought, to keep the chain stationary when backpedalling. After all the time I spent on this bike, it has to be worth $60.




Well,Ride it for a while and see what you think. I'm guessing you're not very impressed so far?


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## Deejay (Oct 18, 2011)

PCHiggin said:


> Well,Ride it for a while and see what you think. I'm guessing you're not very impressed so far?




I rode it all around town for 5 hours one day and had no problems except that it seemed a bit slow. I found myself pedalling all the time just to maintain a decent pace. Maybe there was a headwind. Anyway I sold it for $60 last weekend and can't say I miss it.


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## junkyard (Oct 29, 2011)

That 'Freewheeling chainring' is a Shimano 'FF' system, the purpose to that was so you could shift without pedaling since the chain was always moving when the bike was rolling. The rear cluster should be without a freewheel mechanism if it's the original rear wheel. That system was used on lower end models from around 1976 through the early 80's or so.  
See: http://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g2_itemId=13384


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## Larmo63 (Oct 30, 2011)

*Murray vs Schwinn*

No contest. At least since the early sixties, Murray and AMF type bikes were made cheaply to make the bean counters happy. Screw the fact that they literally fell apart as kids rode them, we MUST keep costs low and output high! It's almost as if they held together long enough for the check to clear the bank. I have owned all kinds of Schwinns; ancient, and up into the seventies. They were and are ALWAYS quality made products. (but not perfect by any means) For the most part, they ride superior to anything else. During earlier days, 30's, 40's, and even 50's, all bicycles were manufactured with pride and craftsmanship. I bought a Spaceliner recently, and I couldn't get rid of it too soon. I never liked crappy stuff, so I stay away from the cheap-o brands. My two cents.


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## partsguy (Oct 30, 2011)

Larmo63 said:


> No contest. At least since the early sixties, Murray and AMF type bikes were made cheaply to make the bean counters happy. Screw the fact that they literally fell apart as kids rode them, we MUST keep costs low and output high! It's almost as if they held together long enough for the check to clear the bank. I have owned all kinds of Schwinns; ancient, and up into the seventies. They were and are ALWAYS quality made products. (but not perfect by any means) For the most part, they ride superior to anything else. During earlier days, 30's, 40's, and even 50's, all bicycles were manufactured with pride and craftsmanship. I bought a Spaceliner recently, and I couldn't get rid of it too soon. I never liked crappy stuff, so I stay away from the cheap-o brands. My two cents.




"Always quality made products"? Even today's rebadged Schwinns? I got a newer Schwinn in 2008, I've had to do some work. Just as much work as other modern day bicycle, except Magnas, those are worse. The kickstand head broke in half, I've gone through TWO seats (and I'm a light weight guy!), and the rims are made of aluminum and starting to disentigrate from the brakes (I've owned many aluminum rimmed bikes and this has never happened). Cheap chinese GARBAGE. Schwinn has NOT been quality since the 90s, NONE of the big "American" brands have been. Huffy, Murray, Roadmaster, Schwinn, and Mongoose are all made in china now by the same company and are all badge-engineered with cheap metal.

The only way to get a quality bike nowadays is to either fix up an oldie or go and spend hundreds on a European model.


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## Larmo63 (Oct 30, 2011)

Sorry, I should have stated until the late 70's. Now, they are probably junk. I stopped caring about modern "Schwinn" in the 80's. Schwinn died as far as I'm concerned.


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## kngtmat (Nov 2, 2011)

The build quality was great and I have never had anything wrong, nothing falling apart or anything else on a Murray, I have a Schwinn from 65 and other than fillet brazing making it have  a little more smoother lines to it, it looks no better or no worse than a Murray, my spaceliner front hub is cracked but is not original to it because they updated it to new hubs in the front & rear so it can be a Klunker bike and the crack happened when they were racing roughly more than all bikes back then did around hills & trails.


I think the people that say they were bad were kids that mistreat their bikes more than most other kids do or try to break them to make them seem like they were bad quality just to misrepresent them because they payed more.


The same goes with Huffy bikes too, they were great bikes and I have never had anything bad happen to then either.


It's all a bunch of hype from the more expensive bike companies and those get upset for spending more money on a bike when someone else spent less for a bike that is just as good, all bikes are equally as good as another especially when you treat them right and with respect.


The same goes with Men's & Ladies bikes so give some respect to all bikes everywhere, Sorry but I had to let off some steam.


I have a 94 Murray Monterey that I have had since then and I have ridden it since 2002 after the wheels were taken off of it by someone and I have been slow at customizing.


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## Uniblab (Apr 10, 2012)

My comment on Murray quality is tainted as I was killed on one.....it happened while riding down Floogal Street, a piano fell on my head right out in front of the Susquehanna Hat factory.


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## cyclebuster (Apr 11, 2012)

I dont recall ever seeing a broken schwinn frame. Murrays about one a month. And all the parts on a murray are the cheapest available at any price. I have had a Murray Flightsonic on ebay for 2 years and never had a question about it. It also never had more then 2 watchers. in 2 years. And whats funny is its got most all the rare spaceliner parts on it. Some of the worst welds i have ever seen. In fact 2 weeks ago I ran a bolt through the rear stay and dropout bracket on an older murray, because it looked like the paint holding it together had broken. No sign of a weld anywhere. none. not even a spot weld. rh side was welded.


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## jd56 (Apr 11, 2012)

*Flightsonic?*



cyclebuster said:


> I dont recall ever seeing a broken schwinn frame. Murrays about one a month. And all the parts on a murray are the cheapest available at any price. I have had a Murray Flightsonic on ebay for 2 years and never had a question about it. It also never had more then 2 watchers. in 2 years. And whats funny is its got most all the rare spaceliner parts on it. Some of the worst welds i have ever seen. In fact 2 weeks ago I ran a bolt through the rear stay and dropout bracket on an older murray, because it looked like the paint holding it together had broken. No sign of a weld anywhere. none. not even a spot weld. rh side was welded.




What is a Flightsonic? Got a picture? or send me the ebay listing


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## kngtmat (Apr 11, 2012)

I have never seen a broke Murray frame either but I did see one someone cut up that I got for what little part's it had which the guy I got it from said said someone had done some kind of trike custom thing out of it.




I never seen a Flightsonic before and I look on Ebay about all the time, if I had a lot of money I would be buying Murray's.


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## partsguy (Apr 11, 2012)

There is no such thing as a Murray Flightsonic.


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## jd56 (Apr 11, 2012)

*Must be a ratrod*



classicfan1 said:


> There is no such thing as a Murray Flightsonic.




Flightsonic must be a ratrod built from a flightliner and a sonic flyer. Hopefilly cyclebuster can post some pics.


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