# Late 1890's? Saturn Track Bike...any info is appreciated



## decath6431 (Apr 14, 2014)

Hello everyone.  Been a long time since I posted on here, was semi active back in 2012 and my wife and I had a little boy at the beginning of 2013 so that has been taking up plenty of time  I bought this Saturn from a fellow CABE member probably September of 2012 and haven't really done much with it since.  The person I got it from said it came from an estate in IN and was used as a track bike in the early part of the century.  I haven't done much with it to this point and am trying to figure out whether to hang onto it or maybe move it down the road but in either case I'd like some more info on it than I currently have.  The original owner seemed to think it was all original, I've always had doubts about the crankset as it seems newer to me, maybe more like 30's or 40's even.  I own one other antique bike, a Pierce 1902 chainless, and it has the 3 piece crank setup that I seem to see on almost all the turn of the century bikes.  This looks similar to some late 30's bikes I've had with the fact it's one piece.

I believe the wheels are Lobdell based on the stamp I found and that would seem to make sense.  Still has the original head badge and in doing research I found that Saturn's were made between I believe 1897-1902 or so in Buffalo, but didn't find any additional information beyond that (it's listed in the back of Carl Burgwardt's "Buffalo's Bicycles book).  Major Taylor stem is stamped and says "Made in England".  The front hub is a New Departure model WL and I can't read the rear hub but it's fixed, maybe another New Departure?  

I'm curious if anyone on here owns one of these or knows anything about them.  As mentioned, I suspect that the frame and bars are turn of the century and that the drive train is probably later...was maybe "modified" in the 20's or 30's for velodrome racing?  I unfortunately can't find another example for reference or a price comp.  Any feedback or input is appreciated.  Thanks in advance


----------



## Wcben (Apr 14, 2014)

Being that the Lobdells are from Alma, that would indicate that they (at least) are from 1926+ (Lobdell moved operations from Onaway after the fire in Jan of 1926.)


----------



## carlitos60 (Apr 15, 2014)

*Strange!!!*

It's Kind of Strange; I have a Badged "*MARS*" Bike but from Cleveland Bike Co.
No other info at all!!!

Does Not Look as Good as Yours!!!

Good Luck!


----------



## fat tire trader (Apr 15, 2014)

I'm especially interested in this bike because my grandmother's maiden name is Simpson.

I found George listed on the wheelmen site under Saturn bicycles.

http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/bicyclebrands/bicyclebrands.pdf

Then I found this page on the Saturn Ice Bike

http://www.thestrong.org/online-collections/nthof/alpha/bicycle/113.162

George was born in 1870 and married Kate in 1899. He was listed as a bicycle dealer; so the bike may have been built by someone else. There was also a George K. Simpson who was a bicycle manufacturer.

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Simpson-4240

The above is all that I found this morning, maybe you can take this research further. If you ever decide to sell the bike, I would love to buy it, or trade for it.



Happy Trails,
Chris


----------



## bike (Apr 15, 2014)

*just haveing looked at a lot of bikes I would put this much later*

...... I have few facts to back this up (rims as noted,hubs,pedals,saddle)


----------



## Iverider (Apr 15, 2014)

Aren't paint darts 1910s+ 

Cool bike no less


----------



## fat tire trader (Apr 15, 2014)

bike said:


> ...... I have few facts to back this up (rims as noted,hubs,pedals,saddle)



The front hub is obviously newer than the bike, based on that, I would not date the bike by easily changeable parts like the "(rims as noted,hubs,pedals,saddle)". The above parts ware out, and on a bike that is used frequently are often replaced.


----------



## bike (Apr 15, 2014)

*ok cranks and constrution of frame esp drop outs*



fat tire trader said:


> The front hub is obviously newer than the bike, based on that, I would not date the bike by easily changeable parts like the "(rims as noted,hubs,pedals,saddle)". The above parts ware out, and on a bike that is used frequently are often replaced.




say NO to 1890s

So what IS the "bike"? the frame?


----------



## fat tire trader (Apr 15, 2014)

I never said yes to 1890s. I said that basing the date of the bike on those parts is not reasonable. The fork crown looks very familiar to me. Here's an example/dilemma. In 1983, I worked as an apprentice to a local frame builder, Charlie Cunningham. As part of my pay, I got a bike. I rode and raced the bike a lot for ten years. In 1994, I was hit head on while riding the bike by a drunk driver in a truck. By 94, I had changed the rims, the saddle, the fork, the headset, the stem, the handlebars, the cranks, the pedals, the derailleurs and more.  I am now, 20 years later, going to repair the bike. It needs a new top tube, down tube, fork and front wheel. My dilemma is, should I repair it with all of the parts that were on it in 94, or should I restore it to the way I built it in 83? If I did nothing and someone found it 100 years from now, would they say that it is a 93, based on the date codes on the Shimano derailleurs?


----------



## fordsnake (Apr 15, 2014)

```

```
Sometimes they would replace the entire frame.

[


----------



## decath6431 (Apr 15, 2014)

*Thanks.*

I wanted to thank everyone who has taken the time to reply so far.  I saw one of those "ice cycles" sell at Copake a few years ago I think for around $1,200.  Thought it was interesting.  I now know with certainty the wheels are older so I appreciate that.  I'm still a little torn on the frame, I believe the badge is original to the bike and Carls book dates those being made late 1890's -early 1900's, but I agree it also has some attributes that make it seem closer to the 20's.  The badge looks period, bike not as much.  The wheels I can easily see being replaced, what has me most confused is the bb and crankset.  I suppose those could have been replaced also.  I had until relatively recently an 1897 crescent model 9 frameset that had the fork nickeled like I presume this one was originally also.  Anyone care to venture a current market value?


----------



## fordsnake (Apr 15, 2014)

Krautwaggen said:


> Aren't paint darts 1910s+




Nope! It was earlier then 1910...try 1899.


----------



## fordsnake (Apr 15, 2014)

The Schwinn built Hibbard (mid 30's) featured the same star chainring.


----------



## Dave Stromberger (Apr 15, 2014)

That same chainring is also seen in the 1933-35 Schwinn catalogs on various models, including the Aerocycle.


----------



## decath6431 (Apr 15, 2014)

*Interesting*

Would it be stamped "schwinn" on the bottom bracket axle if that was in fact what it came from?


----------

