# 1937 Colson Imperial



## Stony (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm new to the vintage bike world, so I have some questions about this Colson for sale on Craigslist. Is it all original and is it worth the $999 they're asking?

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/bik/3104981263.html


Thanks in advance


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## fatbike (Jul 31, 2012)

It's a Colson Flyer standard not a Imperial.


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## JOEL (Aug 1, 2012)

Benny is a CABE member and has been trying to sell that Colson for a while. IMO the price is not unreasonable. The slat rack if original is well worth half the asking price. This model is scarce and the paint appears to be original. Has the early style truss fork and long wheelbase frame.


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## vincev (Aug 1, 2012)

The slat and tube rear rack could bring around $375 ,which is nice.He is also keeping some original parts and offering to sell them separately.If he put the original parts with it ,that would make it a tempting deal.I would pass on this.Bike does look good but it depends how good it looks to you.


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## Boris (Aug 1, 2012)

Is there a chance that the rack could be a reproduction? I could be wrong as I often am, but I don't see the signature bends in the braces. I have my reasons for asking.


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## Vintagebikenut (Aug 1, 2012)

*Colson imperial?*

Take fatbike's  advice this guy knows his colsons this bike is not a imperial if it was it would be long gone.


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## Stony (Aug 1, 2012)

So if this is not an Imperial and the person selling is a CABE member, why would they call it something it is not? 


Hopefully this question won't stir up too much of a hornet's nest.


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## RMS37 (Aug 1, 2012)

Since you are posting on the CABE you are also technically a member and, also do not know what constitutes a Colson Imperial. The fact is that probably 90% of the old bikes that are sold are marketed by sellers that at best only have a vague idea of what they are selling. On the CABE the percentage probably comes closer to 50% but still, even experts on one manufacturer’s bicycles often only have a rudimentary working knowledge about the subtleties of another make. 

Since your are a member, one of the benefits is that when you ask about background information regarding a potential purchase, often you will receive information you could never track down elsewhere on the internet…The other side of the coin is that until you know exactly what you are looking at, (typically a five to twenty year learning curve) the under-priced good ones will sell while you are paused to consider and research a purchase.


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## Stony (Aug 1, 2012)

> Since you are posting on the CABE you are also technically a member and, also do not know what constitutes a Colson Imperial. The fact is that probably 90% of the old bikes that are sold are marketed by sellers that at best only have a vague idea of what they are selling. On the CABE the percentage probably comes closer to 50% but still, even experts on one manufacturer’s bicycles often only have a rudimentary working knowledge about the subtleties of another make.
> 
> Since your are a member, one of the benefits is that when you ask about background information regarding a potential purchase, often you will receive information you could never track down elsewhere on the internet…The other side of the coin is that until you know exactly what you are looking at, (typically a five to twenty year learning curve) the under-priced good ones will sell while you are paused to consider and research a purchase.




I understand this concept perfectly as it applies to a lot of items that are collectable. I have been collecting militaria for 40+ years and know that pulling the trigger on an item that is underpriced will gain you a nice item at a price less than its value, and in the case you're not going to keep it, make you a profit.

The main reason for posting this in the first place was to gain some knowledge and that mission has been fairly well accomplished and I thank everyone that has replied for that. 

I like the looks of the old bikes and I plan on purchasing one when either the time is right and/or when one suits my fancy. I am a big fan of things from the 30s-early 60s like flight jackets, vintage golf clubs, retro clothing and now a little bit of bikes. All of those together make a nice little package in my world.


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## RMS37 (Aug 1, 2012)

It sounds like you have plenty of experience with collectibles so you know the ropes in general. Collecting bikes is similar and unless you become a rabid collector over time, the specific differences that add dollar value to a bike in those circles are not going to make a big difference to the enjoyment of owning, showing, and using an old bike to a more novice or less serious (reality grounded) collector. 

   Value in dollars is also only a potential issue when you decide to buy and/or sell and keys directly into one's own feelings about money and how much you like to keep it, spend it and make it. Since bikes are constructed from parts that can be individually valuable, and that can drastically affect the market value of a specific bike by either being present or missing, knowing the specifics about those parts and whether they are correct and present or missing is the key to “Blue Booking” any old bicycle with the goal of making “smart purchases” if the potential for monetary gain is important. 

   One other general piece of advice is that buying the best original condition example of any bike will probably turn out to be the best move viewed purely from a dollar standpoint. A small amount of value can be added to rough and average bikes by refurbishing them but with any consideration for time and supplies there is no money to be made in anything approaching a true restoration of an old bike and choosing to do so needs to be justified for either sentimental reasons or the desire to be involved in the process and/or to own (till death do you part) the results.  

    Regarding the Colson that started this post; many people have offered up information about the bike and what is good and less good about the package deal. My feeling on the bike is that what you see did not leave the factory as the top of the line Imperial model and so it will never _be_ that model. Much of what is there is an original second tier model 1937 Colson and an owner could choose to build to that spec and keep what is original as-is, find the parts that are missing and distress them to match the existing patina and create a very nice bike. Conversely an owner could choose to replicate an Imperial model which would require finding and buying many expensive parts (about $400-$600 for a stem.) Imperials also used a special paint pattern and to replicate one would also mean repainting the bike and losing what is original in the process. The result could be a beautiful restored replica of an outstanding top of the line period bike but without the provenance that would ultimately give that restoration tooth. 

   There are other possibilities and scenarios for this bike and I do think the price for what is being sold is not unreasonable with the many valuable parts included; but I also think the difficulty of deciding between refurbishing the bike to what it was or restoring it to replicate something it isn’t, along with the difficulty in achieving either, is one of the prime reasons this bike is still on the block.


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## Stony (Aug 1, 2012)

Phil, I see that you are in Shoreline. I live in Tacoma and was wondering if there are any shows or swap meets coming up soon so I could check out some bikes and maybe learn a few things also.

Were you at the antique show at the Puyallup Fair a few months ago when they had the vintage bikes on display? If so, we may have talked.

Cheers,

Stony


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## RMS37 (Aug 1, 2012)

Small World!  I put on the Puyallup show along with four other collectors. (I also grew up in T-Town.) We have a number of vintage bicycle events in the Seattle/Tacoma area and the next one is the Seventh Annual Vintage Bicycle Concours that we hold on the grounds of the LeMay family automobile collection at Marymount, during their annual open house. The date for the event is Saturday, August 25th. 

here is a link to the announcement for the event, 

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?30214-The-7th-Annual-Vintage-Bicycle-Concours-at-LeMay

I will be posting more on that thread in the next week. 

Beyond the Concours is the Battleground Swap meet coming up on Sept 15th, just north of Portland, and our Winter/Spring Seattle Old Bike Swap Meet Swap which is always held at the end of April. You are also in the thick of things with the Tacoma Skidkings, a group that gathers roughly monthly for vintage bike rides. 

I talked to a lot of people at Puyallup so that is all a bit of a blur, but I look forward to talking again and I can get you more information on all the events and groups I mentioned.

Best,

Phil


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## vincev (Aug 1, 2012)

Dave Marko said:


> Is there a chance that the rack could be a reproduction? I could be wrong as I often am, but I don't see the signature bends in the braces. I have my reasons for asking.





You are right on the rear rack..It was on the Cabe last November


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## John (Aug 1, 2012)

*Same bike*

Same bike

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Balloon-1930s-1940s-COLSON-Imperial-Art-Deco-Antique-Bicycle-Tank-Bike-/320956652973?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aba81ddad


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## fatbike (Aug 1, 2012)

The rack is a reproduction that has been stressed to look aged and original. Benny knows it is a repop. I have owned that rack before. i bought it off someone here years ago incase I couldnt find a real one. I did. So I sold it to another member here on the cabe locally and they knew the info on it, than turned Benny on to the guy who had it F/S, they sold it to Benny and he knows it is not real. Not causing a war here, I just like honesty and integrity in the hobby. Who cares if the bike is a imperial or not, just state the facts on what the has and not pass parts as original. It is a small hobby when it really comes down to it, parts are so hard to find with some paticular bicycles you tend to see the same parts and or bikes beeing passed around the country to numerous collectors. 

The price is fair for the bike as a whole on what it does have and complete as a rider. i don't claim to be a Colson expert but I have been around a lot of them and had a lot of rare Colson parts in my hands and bikes in front of me plus way to much obsessive research. Anyhow at the end of the day this hobby should be fun and riding these old timers whether or not complete, OG or rat rod should be fun regarless. And it is jus a hobby.



Part of  eBay posting about the rack. your right the reproduction rack is rare because there is not many out there but it is not real. It does not compare the real mccoy, You can really tell the difference.

***These 2 items DO NOT come with the bike, but If you look at the last picture I'm going to offer the very Rare, Correct "Slat & Tube" Rack (only used for 2 years!) for an extra $150 on top of the selling price (valued at $350), and Original Art Deco Teardrop pedals w/ reflectors for extra $50 (valued at $75). ***






Phil good info and words about collecting. 


Thanks


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## Boris (Aug 1, 2012)

I agree Derek. You, me and Benny know that the rack is a reproduction. I just wasn't hearing that word discussed, and thought now would be a good time to bring up the topic, since it's for sale, and people are placing an original value on it.


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## bikewhorder (Aug 1, 2012)

The text has been changed to say its a repro. Good thing you guys are looking out for us less knowledgeable types,  I found his ad on craigslist last Friday before it was posted here and called him and I was seriously thinking about buying it.  I've sold a couple things to Benny and he knew who he was talking to.  I don't remember him saying the rack was a repro but I do remember thinking the deal seemed almost to good to be true.  It's kind of sad that we can't even trust each other on here.  -Chris


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## vincev (Aug 2, 2012)

Fatbike, I have an original rack.I have had it for many years.Also have the correct mounting bracket.How do you tell the difference in a modern reproduction?I never saw the repop up close.Can someone post a picture or two showing the differences?


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