# Old Indian



## ace

Can anyone tell me what year this Indian Bicycle was built by the placement of the tank straps?


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## Nickinator

westfield manufactured 1917-1921. absolutely stunning bike btw


Nick.



ace said:


> Can anyone tell me what year this Indian Bicycle was built by the placement of the tank straps? View attachment 92963View attachment 92964


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## bike

*Please document westfield mfg. --mr columbia?*

(AWESOME BIKE!!  I DID NOT THINK THAT NEEDED TO BE SAID BUT MY POST MIGHT NOT HAVE COMMUNICATED THAT)

I am not saying no- I am trying to learn. I am trying to compile information on these bikes that I hope to share via my website+the cabe and welcome any input.

WESTFIELD MFG.?

Some say Davis! Mel Short had an orig with Davis seatube decal- trying to get a picture.

I have ads that say BUILT AND BACKED BY THE MAKERS OF THE INDIAN MOTORCYCLE, here is one:


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## Nickinator

I always thought indians were made by westfield? maybe they were made by davis.

Im confused now.

Nick.


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## ace

Thanks. Another pic. 

.


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## fordsnake

Before I sold my Indian last month...I was able to put together a brief time line on the Indian from research:

_The company had three names in its lifetime: "The Hendee Manufacturing Company" (1901-1925), "The Indian Motocycle Company" (1925-1951) and "The Indian Company" owned by The Indian Sales Corp. (1951-1962).

1.  _   1898, a former bicycle racer George M. Hendee, opens a small shop on Worthington Street in Springfield, Mass., fabricating bicycles. Named the "American Indian", it was later shorten to simply "Indian" because it gave better product recognition in the export markets. 

2.     By 1900 the small shop on Worthington Street in Springfield, Mass., was fabricating 4,000 bicycles a year.

3.     In 1901, Carl Oscar Hedstrom joins the company and designs a prototype diamond frame bike with a gasoline engine for mass production. The first Indian motorcycle featured a chain drive and streamlined styling, and sold to the public in 1902, two years before the Harley-Davidson Motor Company.

4.     The Indian motorcycle quickly becomes a favorite and it eclipsed their bicycles market. With its success the company expands their facility, producing over 500 motorcycles and while still manufacturing bicycles.  

5.     In 1904 Hendee Manufacturing Company introduced the deep red color that would become Indian's trademark. 

4.     In 1906, the Hendee Manufacturing Company was still manufacturing bicycles at the Worthington Street location even though more than a thousand motorcycles were also produced at this small shop in 1905.

5.    In 1910 the company had 3,000 agents and had set up assembly factories in Chicago and San Francisco. In 1911 they were manufacturing aircraft engines and selling motorcycles around the world, yet the 1912 sales catalog features two entire pages dedicated to the Motobike (bicycle). 

6.    The 1912 Model 91-T Indian Motobike was designed to resemble their successful motorcycles, equipped with an electric light, and dry cell batteries to fit in the pseudo gas tank. Even the Men’s Motobike, which didn’t have electrics, was styled with a skirted front fender and a rear wheel stand just like the current motorcycle models.

4.	By 1916 the Hendee Manufacturing Company was aggressively advertising both men’s and women’s Indian bicycles in national magazines.

5.     In 1913, over 32,000 motorcycles were produced. *Hedstrom exits the company, and founder George Hendee leaves a few years later. Business misfortune and the lousy management of the financiers taking over the company nearly ruins it. *

6.     Between 1916-1922 the brand is focused on trying to substain its motorcycle devision, its unknown whether Hendee Mfg. Co. sub-contracted the production of their bicycles? *All indicators suggest that Westfield made them (Indian frames are identical to the Racycle Motobike and the Columbia which are Westfield produced). *

7.     Oct. 26th 1923 the corporate name of Hendee Manufacturing Company was changed to Indian Motocycle Company. In the wake of the name change, Westfield became the official builder of the Indian bicycle.


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## THEGOLDENGREEK

Nice Indian bicycle ....love that front fender on it and tank!


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## willswares1220

*---------------------------*

-------------------------


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## dfa242

Ace - That's really a beautiful bike you have there.

Fordsnake - Thanks very much for sharing your timeline of the Indian line - very interesting history.


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## ace

Thanks Steve. I really enjoy bringing these old bones back to life. It will be treasured for many years and your welcome to come and visit any time. Thanks again!


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## fordsnake

Well, it was brought to my attention that I had introduced my above facts without substantiating or including any reference as to where I pulled the factoids from? This red (legitimate) flag appears to be waved by the Davis/Indian contingency...adamant that Westfield Pope had no involvement in manufacturing the Indian Motocycle? Therefore I’ve conceded and will go back and pull my facts and resubmit them…but in the mean time here’s a visual comparison between Westfield, Indian and Davis. 

_I am not certain but I believe only Westfield Pope offered the signature Double D sprocket? Were there other makers of the Double D crank and sprocket? _




 



_The lower bottom cross bar is another Westfield Motobike styling cue...I believe Davis offered the fluted or volcano attachment? _ 





_They look very similar in appearance?_


 

<a 



_Notice the geometry of the frames, Davis leans backwards, also the pitch in the top frame is shorter and shallower...not like the design of the Indian Motorcycle which the bicycle frame was designed to mimic._ 




As I have stated before I'm no expert...I'm a hobbyist that enjoys the forensics and the history of prewar bikes! I will go back and look for my sources, in the mean time perhaps the Davis/Indian contingency will share their findings on how they arrived that Davis built Indians?


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## MrColumbia

The sprocket design (center hole) was called the "Columbia Double D". Some place I have the patent information on it. If I can find it I will post it here. It was an *exclusive design *by Pope/Westfield. Maybe a Google patents search will turn it up. 

I guess that is the problem with providing absolute notated documentation for everything we have learned over the years. Finding where we put something.


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## bike

MrColumbia said:


> .......
> 
> I guess that is the problem with providing absolute notated documentation for everything we have learned over the years. Finding where we put something.




AMEN! Brain is not what it used to be!
DD drive does seem complelling- what about the split crank/ artridge system for the bottom bracket. I had an nos chartrige from a shop and it had an old handwritten tag that said NEW DEPARTURE


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## bike

*Is there a date on this lit*

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i356/carltondt/Bikes FS/file-174.jpg

just waking up and may have missed it.
thanks


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## catfish

Another way to tell if an Indian was made by Westfield, is to check the rear axle adjusters. They used the same one that were used on Columbia frames.


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## fordsnake

bike said:


> What about the split crank/cartridge system for the bottom bracket. I had an nos chartrige from a shop and it had an old handwritten tag that said NEW DEPARTURE




I think you're confusing the two: Hendee Indians and Indian Motocycle. 








_Early Hendee Indians had some very distinctive styling cues, i.e., the split bottom bracket, the unique coned cups. _








_There's seem to be a consensus Indian bicycles were outsourced at some period to another manufacturer...the question then becomes was it Davis or Westfield that built the Indian Motocycle? _






 

*Here's an interesting read...note the last comment and who posted it!* http://www.thewheelmen.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2284


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## Gary Mc

fordsnake said:


> ]




Westfield actually used both these style rear drop outs.  My 1930 Westfield built Hartford has the style on the right.  My 1927 Stutz motorbike & 1930 Columbia arch bar have the dropouts on the left.


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## fordsnake

bike said:


> *Is there a date on this lit *
> http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i356/carltondt/Bikes FS/file-174.jpg




I'm guessing you're asking about the Westfield "Flying Merkle" on the right? It's from a 1927 ad, here's a paraphrase of an article on the Racycle Crank Blog, Jan 31, 2009:

– Fred Fisk, wrote a brief history of the Miami Cycle Co for “The Wheelmen.” May 1989. Mr. Fisk’s article included a photograph of catalogs from Miami and Racycle from 1916 and 1918. There is some uncertainty about how late the Miami Cycle Co. produced the Racycle? Mr. Fisk suggested production ceased in 1924, but he did not cite his source for this conclusion. What is certain is that the Miami Cycle Co had given up by 1925. In that year, Westfield Manufacturing Co., makers of Columbia bicycles, published a catalog advertising “Racycle” bicycles built in their Springfield, Massachusetts, factory. I will leave it to others to research and report on the Westfield-built Racycles, but various sources suggest that Westfield used the Miami Cycle & Manufacturing Company names: Racycle, Miami, Hudson, and the Flying Merkel, from 1925 into the 1950s.


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## bike

*I did nothink I was counfusing them..*



fordsnake said:


> I think you're confusing the two: Hendee Indians and Indian Motocycle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Early Hendee Indians had some very distinctive styling cues, i.e., the split bottom bracket, the unique coned cups. _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _There's seem to be a consensus Indian bicycles were outsourced at some period to another manufacturer...the question then becomes was it Davis or Westfield that built the Indian Motocycle? _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Here's an interesting read...note the last comment and who posted it!* http://www.thewheelmen.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2284




WHAT if my bike has the "diamond" head cups EDIT my bike came with diamond cups but " (I have stolen from other bikes in the past") edit split "HENDEE" bottom bracket and "WESTFIELD" dropouts?
the split bottom bracket +insert that is supposed to allow you to "remove without disturbing bearing ajustment- just imagine how much you woud have to pry open the frame to fit the crank arm through...


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## fordsnake

bike said:


> WHAT if my bike has the "diamond" head cups (I has stolen from other bikes) split "HENDEE" bottom bracket and "WESTFIELD" dropouts?
> the split bottom bracket +insert that is supposed to allow you to "remove without disturbing bearing ajustment- just imagine how much you woud have to pry open the frame to fit the crank arm through...




There are several examples of that particular build (diamond head cups, split bb and "WESTFIELD" dropouts)...I'm guessing it would be badged with the Hendee Mfg. Co Indian Head? 

I have eluded there was a transitional period that happened when Hendee Mfg. Co (the cut-out Indian name badge) let go of their building reigns and allowed another manufacture (Westfield?) to produce the bike. What year did it occur? I haven't a clue...my research shows that after the exit of both George M. Hendee (founder) and Carl O. Hedström (co founder of the Indian Motorcycle), the company encountered a few business hiccups and floundered with the new management. I can only conjecture that the company was focusing their energy around the motorcycle division to ensure they remained the world largest Motorcycle manufacturer! There were too many imposing competitors encroaching their strong hold...again I can only speculate the bicycle division had fallen in the shadows of the Indian Motorcycle division and was no longer considered a big revenue maker?

A story that parallels this conjecture is the Miami Cycle Co. which produced the Racyle bicycle from 1896 to about the early 1920s. In 1911, The Flying Merkel was sold to the Miami Cycle and Manufacturing Company. Several years before buying the Merkel, the Miami Cycle Mfg. Co. built its own Racycle motorcycle, but they soon abandoned it in favor of the Merkel acquisition.

A review of the advertising from the early teens suggests that the Racycle company lost enthusiasm for its bicycle division, with virtually no advertising showcasing the bike. Instead the ads touted the virtues of the entire line of the Miami Cycle’s bicycles: Racycle, Miami, Hudson, and, surprisingly, the Flying Merkel!  One can only speculate with minimum marketing of the Racycle...that the motorcycle business had taking the center stage from the bicycle line. 

By 1925, Westfield Manufacturing had bought the Miami Cycle Co. and was using the Racycle names to sell their products!


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## slick

This is the best thread EVER! Fordsnake, your knowledge of these leaves me speechless! Thanks so mush for the info. Sooner or later i'll own an Indian. Wish i had the dough at the time to buy yours. Now, time to print all of this.


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## dfa242

I second what Slick said - some really good stuff here.


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## bike

*Long ago I had sen*

I believe american bicyclist introducing the 1915 fully equipped- had cut out badge and 2 piece crank...
Some of the rears on the flaired fender model are cut to clear chain stays and some are formed- early late ? or just used what they had- I had an ad showing those for sale in a trade publication made by Excelsior- which Excesior I do not know but i have bought other bikes to get the fenders..


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## Gary Mc

bike said:


> I believe american bicyclist introducing the 1915 fully equipped- had cut out badge and 2 piece crank...
> Some of the rears on the flaired fender model are cut to clear chain stays and some are formed- early late ? or just used what they had- I had an ad showing those for sale in a trade publication made by Excelsior- which Excesior I do not know but i have bought other bikes to get the fenders..




Those were the early equipped models and I believe they were actually manufactured by Hendee.  Here is an example, 1916 Indian bicycle, owned by CABE member eazywind.


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## fordsnake

Some Hendee Mfg.Co. Indians (1901-1925) featured a cutout rear fender (no evidence of this option on the Indian Motocycle).


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## bike

*Not to be a pita*



Gary Mc said:


> ...............  Here is an example, 1916 Indian bicycle, owned by CABE member eazywind.
> 
> ..........QUOTE]
> 
> 
> well maybe- but how do we know 16? this is what I am getting at- nailing down the years. I am trying to get copies of all catalogs and then start to resarch trade pulbications- chitown seems to be very adept at this and maybe will give me some pointers- Thanks!


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## ejlwheels

Another feature of those fenders is that the edge is rolled out, rather than folded and pressed inside like most rain gutter fenders.


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## fordsnake

ejlwheels said:


> Another feature of those fenders is that the edge is rolled out, rather than folded and pressed inside like most rain gutter fenders.




You are absolutely correct...that's a distinctive signature featured on all of the Indians.


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## eazywind

*Copy of 1916 catalog*

Nothing is definative, but the copy of the 1916 catalog has the cutout badge as a part of the catalog and the copy's of 1917 and 1918 lit i have, have pics/illustrations of solid badges with the indian head. Scroll down to the last 3 pics for some of the 1916 catalog copy. Marc

http://www.easywind2.com/indianafter.html



bike said:


> Gary Mc said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...............  Here is an example, 1916 Indian bicycle, owned by CABE member eazywind.
> 
> ..........QUOTE]
> 
> 
> well maybe- but how do we know 16? this is what I am getting at- nailing down the years. I am trying to get copies of all catalogs and then start to resarch trade pulbications- chitown seems to be very adept at this and maybe will give me some pointers- Thanks!
Click to expand...


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## fordsnake

bike said:


> - but how do we know 16? this is what I am getting at - nailing down the years.




Instead of challenging the validly of model years and the Westfield/Indian connection…perhaps you can share why you believe Davis built Indians?  It’s hard to imagine a pragmatist like you would be blind to accept this Davis hypothesis based on hearsay? The impetus for this conjecture has to be predicated on some discovered observation or documented evidence?


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## bike

*Not challenging trying to learn!*



fordsnake said:


> Instead of challenging the validly of model years and the Westfield/Indian connection…perhaps you can share why you believe Davis built Indians?  It’s hard to imagine a pragmatist like you would be blind to accept this Davis hypothesis based on hearsay? The impetus for this conjecture has to be predicated on some discovered observation or documented evidence?




I want to keep an open mind- for those who do  not know Mel he is onoe of the top motorbike collectyors and he says davis I seem to remember the decal 20 years ago- I PERSONNALY do not think davis built them- Sharon is also quite knowldegeable.  This goes to my point on DOCUMENTATION vs good enough for most hobbiests hearsay.-Maybe just my ocd thing.

Thanks all!


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## fordsnake

Bike, may I suggest you start a new informative thread beginning with the solicitation of all relevant information; photos, catalogues, and documented evidence to weave together this unraveled history. There are so many hidden nuances and unrecorded information regarding the Indian. 

In the spirit of the archeologist, anthropologist, preservationist, and the forensic expert…the unrelenting pursuit is your zeal, the unknown is your quest!


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## fordsnake

*To all you doubters...*






I REST MY CASE!
–Carlton


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## bricycle

Carlton, thanks for clearing that up!


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## Gary Mc

fordsnake said:


> I REST MY CASE!
> –Carlton




All I can say is WOW!!!!!!!!  That is the most significant piece of information I have seen on Indian bicycles. Just WOW, THANKS CARLTON!!!!!!!!  That should clear up a lot of speculation.


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## dfa242

And it appears Westfield was still making them in 1937 -


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## Gary Mc

dfa242 said:


> And it appears Westfield was still making them in 1937 -
> 
> View attachment 93605View attachment 93606View attachment 93607View attachment 93608View attachment 93609




And you see something new every day....  Great Indian Dean!!!!!!


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## bricycle

Dean, that is sweat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## chitown

Nice digging Carlton!


https://www.google.com/search?q=hen...lnt&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:1915,cd_max:1916&tbm=bks


G00GLE B00KS is a great tool. Be sure to do date specific searches to narrow down what you are searching.


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## Oldbikes

bricycle said:


> Dean, that is sweat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




I agree it's a SWEET bike, but I don't see the "SWEAT"?!


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## fordsnake

chitown said:


> Nice digging Carlton!
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=hen...g myself "how would chitown approach this? :)


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## PHANTOM 55

got this badge saving one to build one day.


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## hoofhearted

*Must've Peeped This Nine-Times since initial inception ...*

*Had to BUMP It Up - this thread ....  what a great read !

Excellent fotos ......and CABE Member - fordsnake (Carlton) bringing
his usual, high-horsepower magic to this thread.

This thread is a must-read for anyone young or old to The CABE.*

It easily-puts the _Ram_ in the _Ram-A-Lamma-Ding-Dong !_


.............  patric 


=======================
=======================


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## dubsey55

The fork on aces bike doesnt look Westfield to me at all.  This stuff is 100 years old at least. I have a 1916-21 ish Indian narrow tread track bike, Patric has one too, pictures of his on here under GaryMc Westfield axle adjuster thread. Its my feeling that Indian track bike frames of that vintage were actually built by Iver Johnson, tho I dont profess to actually KNOW. Indian could have used any of several local manufacturers, of which there were plenty, to supply their bicycle needs. No loyalty in business dont ya know! Dont belive everything ya read kids, now or then,,,Walter


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## Goldenindian

I feel the same patrick! Ace's all original indian photos sparked my obsession with teens era/early 20s moto-bikes. Made me want to get up and find what is still out there! I haven't been collecting for long, but the hunt for an Indian moto-bike keeps my eye wide open. I like to compile all the photos I can find to compare since first reading this thread. These pics are from the cabe...so I hope the good photos keep coming!!!! This indian to me looks like a 20s Westfield indian(Did this become a rider? please post). There appears to be no split-bottom bracket, and the rear stays that drop out of the seat post area pinch in a different way then the added old photograph from the earlier era. Fluted correctly like the Westfield frame. Fork? I see the triple plated one a lot of early indians. Headset cups rounded. Thanks for all the knowledge gained from the cabe as a newer member, some photos leads you down the rabbit hole, but i love it!   Also had to add 1919 photo....just because! nice ride!


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## Goldenindian

pics


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## fordsnake

dubsey55 said:


> The fork on aces bike doesnt look Westfield to me at all.




I can not address the above comment at this very moment, but I will tackle it later, please view the different forks in the attached photo. 
Regarding your speculation: Indian track bikes were built by Iver Johnson? Can you share with the class your documented evidence? No hypothesis, no speculation, no conjecture…just the facts!


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## highship

pretty neat to see someone post pics of my indian, the top two pictures are the craigslist photos of my indian find. ill have to post some better pics so you all can put a year on it for me. i was thinking somewhere between 1924-1926 from all the reading i have done.



Goldenindian said:


> pics


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## hoofhearted

*Dubsey55 and Goldenindian ...

Helping to identify Davis-Machines, and Miami - Flying Merkel machines is often
more than I can handle.

Here are some fotos gathered from The CABE and the Ethernet ..........*

What I know about Indian bicycles could be written on a grain of rice.

May wind fill your sails as your research-journey continues  .........

............  patric
























 *(Ace) <<<  1917 thru ?*



 *(Ace) <<< 1917 thru ?*









====================
====================


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## ratdaddy

Gary Mc said:


> And you see something new every day....  Great Indian Dean!!!!!!



it's a old post but I'm interested in the Westfield in pics above.that blister tank has what looks like a key lock on the right side.not seen on other blister tanks.is that any indications that it is a Westfield indian.


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## ratdaddy

ace said:


> Can anyone tell me what year this Indian Bicycle was built by the placement of the tank straps? View attachment 92963View attachment 92964



I notice at some point Westfield Indian when from the welded on truss rod brackets to the one that bolts on to the bottom of the fork.any idea when they did that


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## Freqman1

This is an old post and post #49 is incorrect. ALL of the bikes shown are Westfield built. Hendee only produced their own bikes form about 1899-1904. In 1915 or so  Hendee contracted with Westfield to build all Indian bicycles. In Oct 1923 they changed the company name from Hendee Mfg Co. to Indian Motocycle Co. Notice there is no "R" in "Motocycle". I believe that at least partway through 1924 they we still using the Hendee badge on bicycles and changed to the Indian badge during the course of the year. The contract with Westfield appears to have lasted until WWII started. My observations. Here is the main thread for Indians https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/h...tocycle-co-bicycles-information-thread.41878/  At some point I hope to collaborate and write a monograph on this subject. V/r Shawn


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## redline1968

Don’t use mine...


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## Freqman1

redline1968 said:


> Don’t use mine...



I'll only use the pics I had BEFORE it was yours


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## catfish

What about this one?


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## catfish




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## Freqman1

ratdaddy said:


> I notice at some point Westfield Indian when from the welded on truss rod brackets to the one that bolts on to the bottom of the fork.any idea when they did that



I believe either 1922 or 1923. @47jchiggins @Bikermaniac may be able to answer this definitively. V/r Shawn


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## redline1968

Yep Showing your true colors. It’s mine in any pic and you don’t have any permission to use any pics of mine in any form.


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## Freqman1

redline1968 said:


> Yep Showing your true colors. It’s mine in any pic and you don’t have any permission to use any pics of mine in any form.



Let it go man. Your upset over objective comments made about your bike in which you disagree with everyone else and want to make it personal. If anyone is showing their colors its you. Using your logic any pics of any of the bikes that someone currently owns are their property? That doesn't even pass the common sense test.


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## ratdaddy

dang I was just trying to get some info on a couple indians I am working on.


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## Freqman1

ratdaddy said:


> dang I was just trying to get some info on a couple indians I am working on.



Don't mind the minor diversions. How about posting up pics of what you're working on? V/r Shawn


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## catfish

I think I'm going to build a bike around this.


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## SKPC

Use my pics and I will mess you up man...This was fun and informative for awhile there.


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## redline1968

too funny........:o there’s plenty of other bikes to fit that one sided dissertation...just not mine it’s dna won’t like it.


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## Miyata FL.




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## ratdaddy

catfish said:


> I think I'm going to build a bike around this. View attachment 804874



that's a good place to start.


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## hoofhearted

Freqman1 said:


> This is an old post and *post* *#49* *is* *incorrect*. ALL of the bikes shown are Westfield built. Hendee only produced their own bikes form about 1899-1904. In 1915 or so  Hendee contracted with Westfield to build all Indian bicycles.  V/r Shawn




*Thank you for the ''head's-up'', Shawn.

Am reposting a very important @fordsnake lit find ...

..... patric*


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## ratdaddy

catfish said:


> I think I'm going to build a bike around this. View attachment 804874



catfish think I'll build a bike around this


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## catfish

ratdaddy said:


> catfish think I'll build a bike around thisView attachment 805516




Yes.


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## cyclingday

They should have stage levels in this hobby.
Sort of like merit badges.
"When you build a bike around this part, it is time for you to leave."
Master Po.


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## catfish

cyclingday said:


> They should have stage levels in this hobby.
> Sort of like merit badges.
> "When you build a bike around this part, it is time for you to leave."
> Master Po.




What's wrong with building a bike around a cool part? I've built a few that way. You have to start somewhere.


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## ratdaddy

catfish said:


> What's wrong with building a bike around a cool part? I've built a few that way. You have to start somewhere.



I found a sprocket in my shop the other day and built these


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## cyclingday

catfish said:


> What's wrong with building a bike around a cool part? I've built a few that way. You have to start somewhere.




Not a thing!
That is a compliment of the highest order.
I've always said, that is the way you learn the most about a bike and its manufacturer.
I've done the same.
It's very gratifying and super educational.
My reference before was from the Kung Fu series.
"When you can snatch this pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave."
In other words, you have reached the highest level of education, and now it is time for you to spread the knowledge.
I guess, you had to be there.
I loved that show. I just wish they had cast Bruce Lee as Kwai Chang Caine, as he had originally intended.


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## catfish

cyclingday said:


> Not a thing!
> That is a compliment of the highest order.
> I've always said, that is the way you learn the most about a bike and its manufacturer.
> I've done the same.
> It's very gratifying and super educational.
> My reference before was from the Kung Fu series.
> "When you can snatch this pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave."
> In other words, you have reached the highest level of education, and now it is time for you to spread the knowledge.
> I guess, you had to be there.
> I loved that show. I just wish they had cast Bruce Lee as Qui Chang Caine, as he had originally intended.





Ah.


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## Bikermaniac

ratdaddy said:


> I notice at some point Westfield Indian when from the welded on truss rod brackets to the one that bolts on to the bottom of the fork.any idea when they did that






Freqman1 said:


> I believe either 1922 or 1923. @47jchiggins @Bikermaniac may be able to answer this definitively. V/r Shawn




Single crown fork with welded truss plates were found only 1916.
Triple crown fork with welded truss plates went from 1917 to 1922
Single crown fork NOT welded truss plates went from 1923 and on


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## redline1968

What you really need ....is some “DNA” from a “original”.... untouched .....fully identified and undisputed by the “one who knows it all” bike coni sure ...and have it cloned.......  :00..


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## hoofhearted




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## ratdaddy

hoofhearted said:


> View attachment 813825



I got it thanks


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## Goldenindian




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## ratdaddy

it's coming together


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## Freqman1

Got a larger pic? What year? V/r Shawn


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## ratdaddy

I will when I can make it load.you know ihaven't even looked to see what year.but I will.and post some pics


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## ratdaddy

trying my hand at nickel plating my Indian parts.I think it looks ok.I'll get better.I think


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## ratdaddy

pic of first try


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## ratdaddy

stem turned out nice


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## Tom Ca

Looks good, is it hard to do?


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## ratdaddy

no its really kinda fun.you have to clean it well.buff it till it looks like you want it to look.then put it in you vat a leave it for a couple hours.it plates 1 1000th and hour.


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## 2BrothersPicks

Found this bike and need some help on it. Is the badge for this bike? How much is the bike worth with and without the badge?


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## Mercian

Hi,

Nicely preserved original bike. I'm sure someone else will help on price and the badge, but I can tell you from the frame number it was built by Columbia in October 1940.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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