# Move over Aerocycles and Huffy Death bike....



## fordmike65 (Apr 25, 2022)

...there's a new Sheriff in town🤯

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144521418025?campid=5335809022


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## saladshooter (Apr 25, 2022)

Reserve not met @ Over $37k?!?!


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## lgrinnings (Apr 25, 2022)

Oooooooooooof.


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## fordmike65 (Apr 25, 2022)

saladshooter said:


> Reserve not met @ Over $37k?!?!



Time to get out the "Big Boy Wallet"!


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## kreika (Apr 25, 2022)

Did they misplace the apostrophe and add an extra zero? Wtf! 🤣


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## cyclingday (Apr 25, 2022)

There’s a cartel out here that shill bids the crap out of it, then they’ll sell it off line to one of their buddies for an undisclosed amount.
It’s like you have to get approval from the made men to get permission to buy one.
They control the market, while at the same time, hopefully unearth some fresh ones from the wild, by people that freak out when they see the prices that are being paid for them.
No harm in that, and more power to them.
And that isn’t to say, that this bike isn’t going to sell for big bucks.
Just don’t be surprised if the auction doesn’t run full term.
The reserve is probably set at $100,000 dollars, because the bike isn’t for sale to just any Joe Schmoe, with a fat wallet.
There’s definitely more going on behind the curtain than meets the eye.
Just sayin.🙄


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## The Carolina Rambler (Apr 25, 2022)

That is madness.  I mean, to each his own, and I'm probably just ignorant, but something like that seems to fall into the category of $100,000 pokemon cards or $10,000 Pop Funcko Doll.  That's barely vintage even, and being a later model as far as bikes go, its a wonder someone dosen't build a fake of something like that, that is indistinguishable from an original, given as how its all modern parts and techniques used in its construction.  But again, I am ignorant to something like that bike, BMX in general.


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## cyclingday (Apr 25, 2022)

An exact replica was built by a local fabricator, a couple of years ago, that got the cartel all upset.
But, it’s creation had the exact opposite effect than anticipated.
The awareness of these bikes went up, as did the demand, so the prices being paid for the originals also went way up.
The reproduction sells for about $2,000 give or take, while an original is being bid on at $37,000 and counting.
I don’t think you could say that the creation of the reproduction hurt the market for these in any way.
And besides, the reproduction was a limited run, that was produced in smaller numbers than the originals were.



Still a great bike, and about $35,000 dollars cheaper.🤪


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 25, 2022)

hahahahaha, cartel hahahhahah


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## DonChristie (Apr 25, 2022)

Johnny Truetorch? He does great work and clearly is in the Cartel! Lol. That is a nice CBR!


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## fordmike65 (Apr 25, 2022)

UPDATE: Bidding now at $40,100!!!!


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## Maskadeo (Apr 25, 2022)

Cash out your 401Ks and IRAs! On a side note I’m on the look out for Cook Bros stuff at Memory Lane!


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## saladshooter (Apr 25, 2022)

I'm not a seller on ebay. What does it cost to have an item with a reserve set for your buddies to try and set the new price for one of these by throwing a bunch of meaningless bids at it?


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## birdzgarage (Apr 25, 2022)

cyclingday said:


> There’s a cartel out here that shill bids the crap out of it, then they’ll sell it off line to one of their buddies for an undisclosed amount.
> It’s like you have to get approval from the made men to get permission to buy one.
> They control the market, while at the same time, hopefully unearth some fresh ones from the wild, by people that freak out when they see the prices that are being paid for them.
> No harm in that, and more power to them.
> ...



I'm not sure who told you that. My buddy brian sold the last high dollar one.all pretty real.i posted pics of it in my shop.he knows the owner of this one.


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## OSCAR...N... (Apr 25, 2022)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> hahahahaha, cartel hahahhahah



Just the hear that horrible word...

Make me feels.!!...🤮☹️🤮...cause,

Soo many innocent people...jeeezzz.



BTW....you, me or a lots of good people.!!
Don't want Tooo.
Deal with those Devils.!!!

Cartel...🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

Cartel...🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮


Cartel= 

Nazis=

Hitler... ☹️  ☹️  ☹️  ☹️


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## Schwinny (Apr 25, 2022)

Anybody that would pay that for a bicycle
Would also....

A) slap their Grandma
B) put a carrier on it for their case of "rare" Billy Beer.
C) Send postal money orders to a Nigerian Prince
D) Pretend it never happened when they're asked if they remember the Cook bike rip-off years.

Feel free to add more ridiculous to ridiculous.

The Cook Cartel?
Next.... The Breezer Brigade


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## 1motime (Apr 25, 2022)

birdzgarage said:


> I'm not sure who told you that. My buddy brian sold the last high dollar one.all pretty real.i posted pics of it in my shop.he knows the owner of this one.



I'm with you.  Never underestimate the amount of money out there.  A percentage of the guys that lusted for a Cook bike decades ago but were flat broke now are producing serious income.  If someone drops a couple hundred thousand for their dream car this money is nothing.  Third drink money at a high end auto auction.  Not really to impress the watchers on E-bay.  It's for personal pleasure and to maybe impress their buddies.   At this price point it also means it won't get parted out.  At least for a while.


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## Frank and Pam Skid Kings (Apr 25, 2022)

I checked the bidders history and almost all, only or almost only, bid on this sellers site. Somebody's fishing for a sucker (a rich sucker).


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## Schwinny (Apr 26, 2022)

Some think "well good for them", mainly because this edges all bike prices up and they have an interest. The other camp sees it the same way except not so interested in the money aspect.

- Edit-

When you make 60k a month in Bitcoin or whatever, money has no value and one begins to imagine themselves king.
My take; is that King CBR has no clothes. To me, this bike now has no value at all and the people involved might as well be trading in Bitcoin.

That's enough wax for me....
This just serves to help bolster my personal bike value ceiling.


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## PCHiggin (Apr 26, 2022)

Schwinny said:


> Anybody that would pay that for a bicycle
> Would also....
> 
> A) slap their Grandma
> ...



Some good ones there but to somebody with endlessly deep pockets, why not? I see crazy to me,I can’t afford them, prices for way over restored GM A body, B body mopars and even some bikes. $20,000 for a 30’s Schwinn or a Bowden flop? Ok with me. You  know what I mean. Hey, If I could, there’d be an Aerocycle and a ‘70 Hemi Cuda convert. in my garage.  Let ‘em spend baby! Only in America!


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## Maskadeo (Apr 26, 2022)

Pfft. I heard Elon Musk is bidding on it.


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## hzqw2l (Apr 26, 2022)

It's just that transitory inflation....


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## PCHiggin (Apr 26, 2022)

hzqw2l said:


> It's just that transitory inflation....



LOL!


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## tacochris (Apr 26, 2022)

Yeesh.  I mean, to each his own I guess but yeesh.  Reminds of the time last week when my buddy came over and saw one of my rusty barnfind bikes I havent redone yet and asked me how much I paid for it.  I said 600 and he just about choked on his tongue....Lol


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## cyclingday (Apr 26, 2022)

Frank and Pam Skid Kings said:


> I checked the bidders history and almost all, only or almost only, bid on this sellers site. Somebody's fishing for a sucker (a rich sucker).



Exactly!
The unattainable reserve tells you, this is an ego trip.

I never said, that these bikes, or this particular bike wouldn’t bring crazy money at a open market auction.
I just said, that this particular auction smells fishy.
$41,000 and it hasn’t met reserve yet,
Come on, Man!


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## tacochris (Apr 26, 2022)

cyclingday said:


> Exactly!
> The unattainable reserve tells you, this is an ego trip.
> 
> I never said, that these bikes, or this particular bike wouldn’t bring crazy money at a open market auction.
> ...



Just speculating, but could this be whats going on?

Guy has one of these bikes and wants 10-15K for it which seems insane to most people at the time.  So an ad like this goes up with an unGodly price and "22 bids" from unknown sources to seemingly make this 30K price look like a killer deal and make all the guys with more money than brains take notice.  Then, bike doesnt "meet the reserve" which tells people its seemingly worth more.  
Now that the word has gotten out there, the one for 10-15K before will get posted for 20-25K as a "killer deal" and then the price for them will never be the same.  

Same thing happened to 87 GT Performers and now the guys we laughed at 5-6 years ago asking high 4 figures are now getting that and more.  Its all a plan I think...


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## Mountain Trail Andy (Apr 26, 2022)

"Cook" who????.....................What about Huffy?


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## HEMI426 (Apr 26, 2022)

I think Musk is broke, he just bought Twitter for $44 Billion.  He will have to sell some more ele. cars. Those guys with big bucks, if they don't spend it the IRS will take about 40 percent I think, but I don't know because I never had big bucks.


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## 1motime (Apr 26, 2022)

Why does having a lot of money equal not having brains?  Unless one is fortunate to just inherit it makes sense that it was earned.   If I had bigger bucks I would be inclined to indulge a bit. It's all relative when it comes to toys. If it's a real deal hopefully the buyer has a fun ride


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## tacochris (Apr 26, 2022)

1motime said:


> Why does having a lot of money equal not having brains?  Unless one is fortunate to just inherit it makes sense that it was earned.   If I had bigger bucks I would be inclined to indulge a bit. It's all relative when it comes to toys. If it's a real deal hopefully the buyer has a fun ride



if you read it again it says "_all the guys with more money than brains_" which means that there are guys in this world with more money than brains which is an accurate statement.  
Not sure if maybe you  just skimmed what I wrote but it does not say all guys with money have no brains.

Hope this clears it up.  🤘


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## 1motime (Apr 26, 2022)

tacochris said:


> if you read it again it says "_all the guys with more money than brains_" which means that there are guys in this world with more money than brains which is an accurate statement.
> Not sure if maybe you  just skimmed what I wrote but it does not say all guys with money have no brains.
> 
> Hope this clears it up.  🤘



Wasn't making a direct reply to what you said.  More of a comment to the general tone of this thread.  These high dollar bike auctions don't have a direct affect on the bike "hobby" directly.  Values go up according to demand overall.  Certain bikes create their own market.  Cook bikes have always been passionately sought and owned.  If someone wants and can drop big bucks on one than more power to him.  
And yeah.  Sometimes I skim.


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## bikebozo (Apr 26, 2022)

Bike is reslisted,  because of mistake in listing , HA-HA


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## Mountain Trail Andy (Apr 26, 2022)

Just Listed.........Opening bid.......$100.00

Guaranteed not to be a Cook-Bro


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## cyclingday (Apr 26, 2022)

bikebozo said:


> Bike is reslisted,  because of mistake in listing , HA-HA



See, what I tell you guys?
Total shenanigans.


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## sarmisluters (Apr 26, 2022)

cyclingday said:


> See, what I tell you guys?
> Total shenanigans.



From the Bmxmuseum

Bike is down. Pretty smart move.

I bet the seller set the reserve at a crazy amount so the bike wouldn’t sell on eBay.

It brought out all the real buyers who had open checkbooks. Saved on taxes and fees. Only folks that got scammed here are the folks at eBay 🤣🤣🤣

Congrats to the buyer. Hope to see you out enjoying your new toy!!!

The owner is a very reputable CBR enthusiast. He’s also a mechanical engineer with some pretty amazing skills.

He has a couple of the nicest CBR 3 bars in ca. he has been collecting them for a long, long time. It’s legit. Dude doesn’t mess around.

It’s also on a frame straightening table that he built. He straightens frames. People from all over send him their high end cruisers and he puts them on his table and dials them in. He’s basically showing the potential buyer that this frame is straight as an arrow.

I get the skepticism. I get the poop talking. It’s a lot of money. But there’s plenty of people in this country and on this planet that have budgets that most people can’t even imagine. $50k to someone who made $3M dollars last year isn’t really as big of deal as it is to like 90% of Americans.

Dude is legit. You should see his motorcycles…


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## tacochris (Apr 26, 2022)

In 2017, a Hot Cheeto shaped like Harambe the dead gorilla sold for 99,900.00.


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## cyclonecoaster.com (Apr 26, 2022)

*A auction like this ... even though it was pulled - will get noticed as it has ... by hyping one up .. others will surface ... *


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 26, 2022)

What a bunch of jokers, I would love to buy that bike and drive over it with my truck.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 26, 2022)

1motime said:


> Why does having a lot of money equal not having brains?  Unless one is fortunate to just inherit it makes sense that it was earned.   If I had bigger bucks I would be inclined to indulge a bit. It's all relative when it comes to toys. If it's a real deal hopefully the buyer has a fun ride



I know plenty of dumb rich guys


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## fordmike65 (Apr 26, 2022)

ROUND 2!!!!!!!








https://www.ebay.com/itm/144525402241?campid=5335809022


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## GTs58 (Apr 26, 2022)

fordmike65 said:


> ROUND 2!!!!!!!
> 
> View attachment 1614755
> 
> ...




He probably ended the first listing so that he could raise the reserve.


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## GTs58 (Apr 26, 2022)

This is in the new listing but I didn't see any swear words.  🤣 

_The previous auction was cancelled by the eBayBot for use of a swear word._


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 27, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> This is in the new listing but I didn't see any swear words.  🤣
> 
> _The previous auction was cancelled by the eBayBot for use of a swear word._



Is this true?


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 27, 2022)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> What a bunch of jokers, I would love to buy that bike and drive over it with my truck.



I take that back, I would give it to @Mountain Trail Andy


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## 1motime (Apr 27, 2022)

I didn't see any swear words.  What was eliminated was a whole bunch of related "key" words in description that are designed to get the search engine's attention.  Seller is doing that in other ads.  Waste of time.  E-bay's engine isn't that sophisticated.  More of a Craigslist thing...


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## Mountain Trail Andy (Apr 27, 2022)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> I take that back, I would give it to @Mountain Trail Andy



I don't do BMX...........I'll ship it to my daughter........she is in your age group.  🤣


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## Nashman (Apr 27, 2022)

tacochris said:


> In 2017, a Hot Cheeto shaped like Harambe the dead gorilla sold for 99,900.00.


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## tacochris (Apr 27, 2022)

Nashman said:


> View attachment 1614873



Hey more proof that just because something is super expensive and some dingleberry bought it, doesn't mean its worth that.  It just means there is more and more proof everyday as to how pyramid schemes always do well.


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## oskisan (Apr 27, 2022)

$45,000 and reserve not met?????


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## Nashman (Apr 27, 2022)

tacochris said:


> Hey more proof that just because something is super expensive and some dingleberry bought it, doesn't mean its worth that.  It just means there is more and more proof everyday as to how pyramid schemes always do well.



You just have to watch a Barrett Jackson car auction to see what happens when alcohol, ego, and testosterone are mixed. Some people don't even know what they are buying I bet. ( I don't bet, never gamble) I generally avoid auctions ( except Ebay), never been to a live one. Frankly, I'm not that competitive. I think I generally contol the "beast". Ha!! That doesn't make me better than anyone. Just different. We are all different.

I have ( rarely) overbid on Ebay auctions because I just "had to have it" or the "collector /impulsive/possessive gene" takes over. I'm not proud of that, but admit it. It's on a small scale. I'll go out on a limb here and suggest many Cabers have this trait. If you collect anything beyond the "norm", then there is a reason, unexplained ( good or bad) or not. It's not a bad thing unless you sacrifice more logical ( food and shelter) expenditures.

I think for myself, and most collectors, it's the fun of the search, challenge of the tinkering, resto, ride, bling, camaraderie/group approval, possessive glee, accomplishment, historical significance, tales of it's travel/ownership and mishaps, negotiating the deal, the physical move from A to B. Feel free to add to the pile.

I guess to some it's just a game. The pieces can be checkers, chess, bikes, toys, cars, bitcom, stocks, bonds, whatever. Who has the biggest wee wee? The pleasure is in the win, not the prize. Hey if that floats your boat, so be it. Who am I to judge what pleases others? It's fun to watch what extremes some people go to for that "win"?


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## tacochris (Apr 27, 2022)

Nashman said:


> You just have to watch a Barrett Jackson car auction to see what happens when alcohol, ego, and testosterone are mixed. Some people don't even know what they are buying I bet. ( I don't bet, never gamble) I generally avoid auctions ( except Ebay), never been to a live one. Frankly, I'm not that competitive. I think I generally contol the "beast". Ha!! That doesn't make me better than anyone. Just different. We are all different.
> 
> I have ( rarely) overbid on Ebay auctions because I just "had to have it" or the "collector /impulsive/possessive gene" takes over. I'm not proud of that, but admit it. It's on a small scale. I'll go out on a limb here and suggest many Cabers have this trait. If you collect anything beyond the "norm", then there is a reason, unexplained ( good or bad) or not. It's not a bad thing unless you sacrifice more logical ( food and shelter) expenditures.
> 
> ...



Man I think we are alot alike in what you said.  Most people tell me Im lying or scoff at me when i say truthfully, money and the acquirement of it means nothing to me, the only reason I get it is because I want to save more antiques and keep my family fed.  All I care about is saving one more piece of beauty to me and if it means I have to pay 200 to get a bike most people wouldnt pay 20 bucks for, then so be it.  Some might call that foolish but like I said, money doesnt mean anything to me, the THING does.  I am not competitive at all and refuse to battle anyone for anything unless it means the safety of my family.  I dont do ebay bids or bids in general and I only do 'Buy it now" because something about competing with some dude over something takes the fun out of it for me, Ide much rather just let you win and me move on.  
I just let all the alpha and beta males fight over things while I sneak in, grab something cool quietly and go back to my garage like a bridge troll.


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## oskisan (Apr 27, 2022)

Did you see this pic? how sure are the buyers that this is a legitimate original. I don’t know about anyone else here, but I do not have a table like this to build frames, and I definitely do not use one of these to align a frame


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## Nashman (Apr 27, 2022)

oskisan said:


> Did you see this pic? how sure are the buyers that this is a legitimate original. I don’t know about anyone else here, but I do not have a table like this to build frames, and I definitely do not use one of these to align a frame
> 
> View attachment 1614962



If you are selling a "technical" machine to this caliber, ( and price) I'd hope you either have or have "access" to such a table and tools. I mean really, there is not much "bike" there for the bread. No insult on the BMX or "technical" experts and collectors, riders, buyers/sellers, but lets face it, It's bare bones on the gingerbread menu. If less is "More" then these are the "most". A true work of art to a certain market segment, but no tank ( to quote a late friend) "no tanks".

For a fully dressed ballooner, there is more to love. I agree, to many things and people it's about the lines and the design, not what it tips the scales at. Personally I see this as a basic design with a pedigree. This Cook Bros bike is bare bones and has a nifty design. So does this.



 Is it worth $50,000.00?


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## 1motime (Apr 27, 2022)

The "Magic " of a Cook Brothers bike is in the story. The history of an era of BMX. Most kids were totally wrapped up in it then. Now some have grown up, have the funds, and don't fit on a 20 inch bike anyway.  Throw in some high quality machining and fab work and less might end up being more


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## Nashman (Apr 27, 2022)

1motime said:


> The "Magic " of a Cook Brothers bike is in the story. The history of an era of BMX. Most kids were totally wrapped up in it then. Now some have grown up, have the funds, and don't fit on a 20 inch bike anyway.  Throw in some high quality machining and fab work and less might end up being more



How about Gary Fisher? I dunno, do his bikes sell for $50,000.00? I mean there is a legend. I guess what you are saying is they are selling the "sizzle" not the steak?

I think Arnold Schwinn has a pretty interesting story too, ( Ben) Bowden, ( surely a Bowden should sell for HUGE $$, $50,000.00) and CCM, Columbia, Colson ( should I go thru the alphabet?) Ha!!  oh yeah, Cook..... I guess this is a Custom 1 off? I don't think so. Me thinks the BMX age group with extra $$$ are taking things to a crazy level. Deep pockets?, Thumbs up Elon!!

I don't see proportionate relevance here on how our wages, pensions, and inflation/price of goods are so outa WACK!. Example: you paid "*Car Prices in 1950’s *The average cost of a new car was $1,510 in 1950 and by the end of the decade was $2,200. Even a Chevrolet Corvette was only $3,631 in 1958. ( I dare tell you what I paid for my '61 last year!) A Cadillac convertible sold for $5,400 in 1959 with a 325 horsepower engine."

*I priced out a Chrysler Jeep Wrangler last night on line for a lark. I was at $50,000.00 well before I was done.We paid $37,500.00 for our 1st house back in the 80's. Same house now sells for over $300,000.00? wtf?
Prices For Other Items in 1950’s *Men’s all wool suits sold for only $28.90 in the 50’s while a cotton check dress sold for only $3.29. A one carat diamond ring sold for $399. This one carat diamond ring sells for $4,125 today. Diamonds are forever. Are Cook BRO's bikes? Ha! Where will it stop?

The world is a funny place. You have to laugh.


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## Jesper (Apr 27, 2022)

Who rode that bike and what important races were won on it? Does it have some sort of provenance that may make it worth more than just the face value of the actual bike model? I know I wouldn't mind taking ownership of the gold plated Colnago Mexico owned by the Pope back in '79-'80. One of a kind bike with a one of a kind owner. I have a bike previously owned and ridden by an Olympic medalist, but I know it won't be worth the money that this bike is potentially selling for.


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## Nashman (Apr 27, 2022)

Jesper said:


> Who rode that bike and what important races were won on it? Does it have some sort of provenance that may make it worth more than just the face value of the actual bike model? I know I wouldn't mind taking ownership of the gold plated Colnago Mexico owned by the Pope back in '79-'80. One of a kind bike with a one of a kind owner. I have a bike previously owned and ridden by an Olympic medalist, but I know it won't be worth the money that this bike is potentially selling for.



Now here is a bike that's worth some money. We are selling the "sizzle" not the steak.


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 28, 2022)

cyclingday said:


> There’s a cartel out here that shill bids the crap out of it, then they’ll sell it off line to one of their buddies for an undisclosed amount.
> It’s like you have to get approval from the made men to get permission to buy one.
> They control the market, while at the same time, hopefully unearth some fresh ones from the wild, by people that freak out when they see the prices that are being paid for them.
> No harm in that, and more power to them.
> ...



Excuse me while I back my bike up!
Cartel. Shill bidding on eBay. Selling it offline for an undisclosed amount, cheating eBay out of fees due. Controlling a market while scamming people out of their bikes through unfair selling practices. All while allowing themselves unbridled access to any new finds from people contacting them at one of their hundreds of numbers in every for sale/wanted to buy venue in the state, if not the country. (Think Craigslist) Ending an auction early not allowing the last minute bids that could make the auction tilt in a way they do not want it to. AND - THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS!
How many layers of Bullpoop did I just ride through down that short road?

Cartel;

Cartel - Definition, Types, Examples, How it Works?


https://www.wallstreetmojo.com › cartel
*Cartel* Definition. A *cartel* is a group of producers of goods or suppliers of services formed through an agreement amongst themselves, whether or not through a formal agreement in writing, in order to regulate the supply of goods or services with the basic intent to illegally regulate the prices or to restrict competition in respect of the said goods or services.

Sure, there are other definitions. Some, like OPEC are legal if not unethical and harmful to the economies of poorer nations.
Some like drug cartels are so far left of illegal (not to mention murderers on several levels) that governments have entire armies of people with automatic weapons and surveillance satellites tracking and trying to stop them from their actions.

Hell, some parts of governments qualify as cartels. The only thing making their actions more legal is that they made laws giving themselves unbridled, unquestionable power and immunity. Popular three letter Agencies like The IRS, ATF, CIA, NSA, MIB, as well as some we may not even know about fall into this category as well. How many of you that feel cartels are OK are also asking for Cash, Checks, Money Orders, or PayPal Family and Friends because the Federal government is leaving no stones unturned to satisfy their Bloodlust for more and more of our hard earned money. Don't take me wrong here, I agree they are overtaxating our money. How many times can the same product be taxed? (See European VAT).

Three paragraphs and I have only touched on the first word in my first paragraph! Imagine (or read my other rants if your imagination is not that wild) how long this particular rant could be if I turn myself loose!

Before I am done you may not have to!

Shill bidding; this will require more than one reference.

Shill bidding policy - eBay​

https://www.ebay.com › help › policies › selling-policies › selling-practices-policy › shill-bidding-policy?id=4353&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5337464680&customid=&toolid=10001
*Shill* *bidding* is when someone bids on an item to artificially increase its price, desirability, or search standing. *Shill* *bidding* can happen regardless of whether the bidder knows the seller. However, when someone *bidding* on an item knows the seller, they might have information about the seller's item that other shoppers aren't aware of.

What is shill bidding?​

https://www.the-sun.com › tech › 3493437 › what-is-shill-bidding-ebay-pwcc
*Shill* *bidding* is known as a form of auction fraud. eBay defines *shill* *bidding* as, "when someone bids on an item to artificially increase its price, desirability, or search standing." *Shill* *bidding* creates an unfair advantage and causes other bidders outside of the scam to pay more than they should for an item.

Shill Bidding - NY Criminal Defense​

https://nyccriminallawyer.com › fraud-charge › auction-fraud › shill-bidding
*Shill* *bidding* refers to the practice of placing bids on eBay items or other auction items in order to drive up the price. Typically, the eBay *shill* *bidding* scam begins when a seller lists an item and begins accepting bids. The seller instills friends and family, or uses aliases, to bid on the item

Shill bidding has resulted in criminal prosecutions in New York State under the Donnelly Act. The Donnelly Act, found in New York’s General Business law Code section 340-347, is an antitrust law that prohibits bid rigging and price fixing. The Donnelly Act has been used by prosecutors against people accused of shill bidding in online auctions. Being charged under this Act can result in a maximum four year prison sentence, and a fine of $100,000 for individuals and $1 million for businesses.

Shill bidding may also be considered a form of wire fraud, which is a federal offense under 18 U.S. Code Section 1343. Maximum penalties for the crime of wire fraud can include two decades imprisonment.

Is any more of an explanation on the illegality of Shill Bidding even necessary? (I am sure I already know the answer to that question but I am giving everyone the benefit of a doubt anyway.)

All the other points I mentioned are all addresses by these two definitions, and are all either against eBay policy, illegal or in most cases both. I do not always agree with eBay policies, much like governments they make the rules for their benefit first.

Here however I do have to stand with them. I did a rant a couple weeks ago that has made 11 pages and 101 replies as of last night that touches on the damage being done to any hobby by these kinds of people/groups. Honestly this concept did not even darken my already pitch black mind.

Anyone who could mention all these points in one post and not see any problem with them falls into one or more of these categories.
Either they are profiting from these actions and do not care, they are part of the "Cartel" and do not see anything wrong with their actions, or they just do not care what damage is done or who is hurt by these actions, as long as they are not personally affected in a negative way. In any case, as long as your pockets are deep enough, you can do as you like while keeping us riffraff with little money and no right to be in your playground at bay.

Ok, I have stuck my finger in the light socket again. Just like the first time when I was two years old and my mom knocked me away with a broom. My answer then is the same as now.
"But it really feels good!"
Rob


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 28, 2022)

saladshooter said:


> I'm not a seller on ebay. What does it cost to have an item with a reserve set for your buddies to try and set the new price for one of these by throwing a bunch of meaningless bids at it?



If you end the bidding with a no sale, it is the cost of posting your listing. Under $1.00


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 28, 2022)

Schwinny said:


> Some think "well good for them", mainly because this edges all bike prices up and they have an interest. The other camp sees it the same way except not so interested in the money aspect.
> 
> - Edit-
> 
> ...



I see your point, but weren't people saying that about Phantoms in the 1970s, Stingrays in the 1980s and GT BMX bikes in the 90s?


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## 1motime (Apr 28, 2022)

Oldbikeguy1960 said:


> If you end the bidding with a no sale, it is the cost of posting your listing. Under $1.00




E-bay item posting has been free since the beginning of the pandemic.  They probably thought they could do a little something to make things better


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 28, 2022)

1motime said:


> E-bay item posting has been free since the beginning of the pandemic.  They probably thought they could do a little something to make things better



Glad to hear they have done something good.

 I used to be an eBay seller, but when managed payments started, they ended PayPal and electronic bank accounts and required me to give them unrestricted access to my personal brick and mortar only bank account to add or withdraw funds as they see fit I had reservations.

They gave me a sign up by date and then over a month early locked up sales money from two purchases my buyers made on a Sunday evening.

 Incidentally, my info said the Corporation handling managed payments (Probably a shill company of eBay), was based in the Netherlands (or the Netherworld). Both would be equally impossible to prosecute for fraud or antitrust. Try Filing an International Banking Law case if you doubt me.

I had to cancel both sales. Since that was all the money in my actual PayPal account eBay kept their item listing fees. In doing so one seller was shorted the amount of two listing fees of getting their money refunded.

Instead of giving the seller his money anyway under Buyer Protection or even minus the two seller fees eBay refused his refund and kept his money.

Both sellers wanted the items and sent me payment through PayPal, since eBay still allows contact information at the bottom of each message if you know where the setting is to do it. The one buyer (Lost in Space items) may never have received his refund, and I had a specific item he wanted so I have not heard from him since.

 Had I known eBay was going to screw him like they did I would've sent him the Blueprint collection and took the loss myself but it never occurred to me that Buyer Protection was just a catchy phrase with them. I even told him to file buyer protection against me to get his money, I was done selling on eBay after that fiasco anyway.

The other buyer (Star Trek items) had bought other items from me since thru my email and PayPal account although not in a year or so since I have not had anything to sell him.

With the multibillion dollar corporation eBay is they could afford to drop the listing fee forever and still not lose money. I guarantee it had nothing to do with them caring about us during the scamdemic. It was a marketing ploy, and apparently it is working.
Rob


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## PCHiggin (Apr 28, 2022)

Go work on a bike, let the dirtbags bury themselves. I need something new to keep me off the web. Hope to find it Sunday @ Monroe


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 28, 2022)

Incidentally, I am making it a point to gather the info on this particular auction and the seller behind it and turning it over to eBay's Fraud Department.
 I may even send a letter detailing the possible violations of State and Federal law to the Attorney Generals of both California, my home state of Illinois and the Attorney General of the United States for investigation and possible prosecution. How cool do you think these egotistical buttmunches will look after two decades in a Federal Fun House. For some of those pricks it may be for all day.

Knowing how desperate some of these poorly run states are for cash I expect them to all jump on the prosecution bandwagon for Wire Fraud, Income Tax Evasion and Antitrust charges.

Remember the Tobacco Company State lawsuits and the billions paid out over them? I can tell you from a family members experience how much of that money made it to people trying to quit smoking. There were no laws even cited as broken in those cases.

Half the recommended dosing on stop smoking products and no more help meant more people more strongly addicted to nicotine than before so states would not lose tax dollars from tobacco sales.

If this is a cartel as suggested I hope they have a non extradition country lined up and enough money in offshore accounts to live out their worthless lives because any assets they have will be seized by the Feds and probably held to cover any Income Tax they may be evading.

Sure it's OK that they do what they are doing. At least until it isn't.


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## Jesper (Apr 29, 2022)

Unfortunately, I don't believe that ebay's fraud department is worth the time and effort. I have reported multiple sellers for committing fraud and not once were they stopped from selling (even when they admitted to doing so on ebay's message system!); nor was I compensated for my time and/or loss of revenue or clients. The most common fraud that I have run into is a seller unilaterally cancelling an order using ebay's own options, especially the non-deliverable address (mine hasn't changed for over 15 years) when an auction does not get enough response and/or they now want to increase their shipping cost even though it is clearly stated in their own listing (not my fault that you did not properly calculate the cost). I have had some problems with "CL", but not even close to the issues that I have run into on ebay. Ebay definitely protects their sellers better than their buyers. Ebay's customer service/helpline is near to being useless, and you cannot speak with someone in your vicinity so the communication sucks. Every rep. just keeps on apologizing (I tell them to stop since I know it is what they are told to say), but nothing is done to solve the problem.


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## Nashman (Apr 29, 2022)

Jesper said:


> Unfortunately, I don't believe that ebay's fraud department is worth the time and effort. I have reported multiple sellers for committing fraud and not once were they stopped from selling (even when they admitted to doing so on ebay's message system!); nor was I compensated for my time and/or loss of revenue or clients. The most common fraud that I have run into is a seller unilaterally cancelling an order using ebay's own options, especially the non-deliverable address (mine hasn't changed for over 15 years) when an auction does not get enough response and/or they now want to increase their shipping cost even though it is clearly stated in their own listing (not my fault that you did not properly calculate the cost). I have had some problems with "CL", but not even close to the issues that I have run into on ebay. Ebay definitely protects their sellers better than their buyers. Ebay's customer service/helpline is near to being useless, and you cannot speak with someone in your vicinity so the communication sucks. Every rep. just keeps on apologizing (I tell them to stop since I know it is what they are told to say), but nothing is done to solve the problem.



*Moderators, feel free to move this to a separate thread perhaps called SHIPBIKES/UPS/SERVICE/DOOM for Customers*

Customer service and people caring are long gone traits in our corporate society. It's not worth getting upset about either. Read this about UPS service as an example. It doesn't look good for getting bikes shipped. This was about some tires. I edited some of this to try to keep it brief. It's been back and forth a bit, still no news from UPS on track site. I'm waiting to hear from Dave's result from today.



> Hey Bob.  They're boxed up!  The tracking is: 1Z25R90X6896207321
> 
> I will drop them off with UPS tomorrow!  Thanks again!



*ME*: ( above note was on April 20th)  8 Days later I followed up:  Hey Dave,  Have these been shipped? Tracking says not?  Bob 

*DAVE*: Weirrd.  I shipped them the day I sent the tracking. Ill double check when I get  to work today.

*ME*: Thanks Dave. I'm not a fan of UPS and above the mystery. Tracking at my end shows 0 movement since April 20th on the tires.  I was trying to sign on to the UPS site last night. Gong show. I have 4 bicycles being shipped thru Bikeflights/Shipbikes soon/UPS by default, (used to be Fed Ex with Shipbikes and were somewhat dependable) for notification/tracking now for tires and in the future & was an hour of frustration and no result. Not your fault, but jeez..... why is everything these days so f'ducked up?

*DAVE*: Bob, So I went over to UPS at lunch today.  It's right down the street from my office.  They were closed. Don't open until 1PM. 
I went back after work and they weren't letting anyone inside.  I told the guy what happened and he said he couldn't help and to "call the 800 number"  No idea what they're going to do but of course they were closed.  I will call them tomorrow and let you know whatsup.  Sorry this happened!
I had this happen with USPS with another part that I shipped to a guy in FL.  The guy was acting like I never shipped it and I was some sorta jerk.  I refunded him his money and literally a half hour later it showed up at his house.  No idea how it got from NJ to Florida without ever getting tracked but the tracking showed "label created" and "Delivered" No idea how any part of the world actually works! If I don't hear anything positive from them tomorrow, I'll just refund you.  Thanks again for your patience.

*ME*: Hi Dave, I'm not complaining about your efforts at all. ( did it sound like it?) It' obvious UPS are not too good on the service end. No surprise there. Imagine closing at lunch when most people can only get away then to do errands. I'm retired now, but was in that situation before.   VERY.....poor service only telling you to call 1-800. That's one of the many problems with the world today, noone cares. I appreciate you following up tomorrow. Please advise after.
Hey, if after I contacted you it was a lame excuse, like you forgot to take it there, yeah, I'd be upset. That's not the case. I'm in no big rush, but was disappointed when I punched the number in to track 8 days after & see no movement or info. You'd be the same I'm sure. I'm not trying to get my money back. If they don't show up, ( we can't find them) yeah, that's what I'd expect, but no bad feelings toward you. Obviously I want the tires. Lets see what happens after tomorrow. Good night,
                                29 minutes ago                             

So Dave,  What's the situation please?  Bob


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 29, 2022)

Jesper said:


> Unfortunately, I don't believe that ebay's fraud department is worth the time and effort. I have reported multiple sellers for committing fraud and not once were they stopped from selling (even when they admitted to doing so on ebay's message system!); nor was I compensated for my time and/or loss of revenue or clients. The most common fraud that I have run into is a seller unilaterally cancelling an order using ebay's own options, especially the non-deliverable address (mine hasn't changed for over 15 years) when an auction does not get enough response and/or they now want to increase their shipping cost even though it is clearly stated in their own listing (not my fault that you did not properly calculate the cost). I have had some problems with "CL", but not even close to the issues that I have run into on ebay. Ebay definitely protects their sellers better than their buyers. Ebay's customer service/helpline is near to being useless, and you cannot speak with someone in your vicinity so the communication sucks. Every rep. just keeps on apologizing (I tell them to stop since I know it is what they are told to say), but nothing is done to solve the problem.



Is the shipping problem with multiple sellers? I had that exact problem with a buttmunch out of Seattle that I bought a sissybar from. I really only wanted the pad, but it was a 48" sissybar that I may have been able to straighten and use on something.
Nobody bid and I bought it for $50+ $25 shipping. Seller said shipping was going to be an extra $30 and when i refused showing him I could have it shipped to me for $26.50 (approximate) he canceled the order due to problem with shipping address. My address was the same as on my last shipment a few days before. 
I contacted eBay and after their five minute "investigation" they found in my favor and gave me a refund. I told them I wanted my Sissybar and they told me they couldnt make him ship it to me. Really? I said maybe I would bid on another of his items and then refuse to pay, and say there was a problem with his PayPal address  
Shortly after it was done he relisted it, forgetting to upcharge the shipping. I almost bid again, but didn't. A day later he upped the shipping and magically it got a bid. I think it was a shill bid but no way to prove it.
Yes, eBay is useless but if the state/federal government was up their ass may they would do their job.
Or at least one could hope.


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## Boatman (Apr 30, 2022)

Strange, but it comes up as £39.82 in the UK on that ebay link ($50)


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## GTs58 (Apr 30, 2022)

Boatman said:


> Strange, but it comes up as £39.82 in the UK on that ebay link ($50)View attachment 1616617





You are looking at the first listing that has been ended. Here's the active listing.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144525402241?campid=5335809022


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## Jesper (Apr 30, 2022)

Okay, you've piqued my curiousity; not about the bike but about the seller. After reading the seller's description of a bike that is admittedly not even 100% original (besides tires and tubes), I find it odd that this seller does not want to deal with so called "tire kickers" and/or BS, and yet has a starting price of $0.50 but has reserve of at over $60,000. That in itself is questionable since who wants to deal with folks sending you messages and inquiries about something they probably would have passed over if they knew that the reserve was way beyond their reach or more likely their sensibility. I know that I wouldn't want my time wasted by those who want info on something they would normally not be interested in due to the high reserve. Another oddity is the fact that the same seller has an item up for bid which is of drastically less value and listed without a reserve. The seller's starting price on that item is $25.00. Nothing makes sense here.


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## Nashman (Apr 30, 2022)

Jesper said:


> Okay, you've piqued my curiousity; not about the bike but about the seller. After reading the seller's description of a bike that is admittedly not even 100% original (besides tires and tubes), I find it odd that this seller does not want to deal with so called "tire kickers" and/or BS, and yet has a starting price of $0.50 but has reserve of at over $60,000. That in itself is questionable since who wants to deal with folks sending you messages and inquiries about something they probably would have passed over if they knew that the reserve was way beyond their reach or more likely their sensibility. I know that I wouldn't want my time wasted by those who want info on something they would normally not be interested in due to the high reserve. Another oddity is the fact that the same seller has an item up for bid which is of drastically less value and listed without a reserve. The seller's starting price on that item is $25.00. Nothing makes sense here.



Dudes probably on crack, or *L*ucy in the *S*ky with *D*iamonds.


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## Jesper (Apr 30, 2022)

Nashman said:


> Dudes probably on crack, or *L*ucy in the *S*ky with *D*iamonds.



Thanks for that! At least I can feel at ease that I'm not the one who's tripping.


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 30, 2022)

Jesper said:


> Okay, you've piqued my curiousity; not about the bike but about the seller. After reading the seller's description of a bike that is admittedly not even 100% original (besides tires and tubes), I find it odd that this seller does not want to deal with so called "tire kickers" and/or BS, and yet has a starting price of $0.50 but has reserve of at over $60,000. That in itself is questionable since who wants to deal with folks sending you messages and inquiries about something they probably would have passed over if they knew that the reserve was way beyond their reach or more likely their sensibility. I know that I wouldn't want my time wasted by those who want info on something they would normally not be interested in due to the high reserve. Another oddity is the fact that the same seller has an item up for bid which is of drastically less value and listed without a reserve. The seller's starting price on that item is $25.00. Nothing makes sense here.



Maybe this is just a coincidence, but didn't one of these just show up here for sale. For ONLY $30,000?


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## rickpaulos (Apr 30, 2022)

this is very strange. 
ebay. advanced search, completed auctions by vonbiker gets me zero listings.   A seller rating of 2700+, 28 active listings of high dollar items and nothing comes up in completed or sold searches?  26 of those 28 items have identical end date/times which tells me the seller used a bulk uploader tool.  ebay usually keeps ended listings for 3 months or so .Does this seller only sell in batches at widely spread times?


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## Boatman (Apr 30, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> You are looking at the first listing that has been ended. Here's the active listing.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/144525402241?campid=5335809022



Ah, that's more like it, thanks, showing $60k now.


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## OldSkipTooth (May 3, 2022)

The add residence is in Los Gatos, one of the ubber wealthy hubs in Silicon Valley.


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (May 3, 2022)

But of course it is. Some if the worst buttmunches in the planets history live there. Uncontrollable wealth and the desire to control humanity all rolled up in a puddle of runny brownish excrement.
Oops, maybe I should not have been so harsh.
Too late.


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## oskisan (May 3, 2022)

HOLLY CRAP!!!! $68,100 and 2 hours left to go:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144525402241?campid=5335809022


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## fordmike65 (May 3, 2022)

oskisan said:


> WOW!! $68,100 and 2 hours left to go:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/144525402241?campid=5335809022
> 
> View attachment 1619101


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## 1motime (May 3, 2022)

Reserve still in effect. Grab some popcorn


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## oskisan (May 3, 2022)

Holly crap... I did not even see that the reserve had not been met. I bet the reserve is intentionally set high so it can be sold after the auction is over and the seller will save on ebay fees (10% of $70k is a lot of money)... Either that or the seller is a crazy man !

This has got to be a first for me... I have never seen a $70k bicycle until now.


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## 1motime (May 3, 2022)

Not much of an ending. When is the sequel coming out?  Very cool bike though


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## oskisan (May 3, 2022)

yeah, that was a dud ending... No sniping at $68k


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## 1motime (May 3, 2022)

Seller might be shooting himself in his foot. Probably some serious bids in there,, I would think at that price point credibility and trust comes into play. Or it's already found a new home. Stay tuned


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## GTs58 (May 3, 2022)

oskisan said:


> yeah, that was a dud ending... No sniping at $68k




And I'm LMFAO over this whole auction. I wonder if the seller is the guy that bought Cook Bros. in 1983? He's a member here on the Cabe.


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## fattyre (May 4, 2022)

Where’s  @Joaquin Suave?

I’d bet he’d have some enlightening thoughts on this.  









						A simple Question? | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

So in my manufacturing facilities I have all the abilities in house to repilicate/ "rip-off" PERFECT Elgin Bluebirds and or Dayton Huffman Superstreamliners... Why shoulden't I???




					thecabe.com


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## Joaquin Suave (May 7, 2022)

To quote myself on this thread...

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/the-unintentional-consequence-of-integrity.181656/



> Thank you on your input! However, the joke is on you and Johnny!




Well! Maybe now you get the joke!!!!🤣🤣🤣


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## bobcycles (May 7, 2022)

Maybe the Cooks folks are simply unaware of the finest and most beautiful bicycles ever produced on earth  (1934-41 American Balloon) and once enlightened will pay hundreds of thousands for the best stuff ever made on 2 wheels, pedal power?


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## cyclingday (May 7, 2022)

Kook Bros, copied the 1935 Schwinn Cycleplane frame.
Why do you think those bikes are so desirable?
It’s because they look cool.
No other 3 bar BMX is bringing that kind of attention.
It’s because they didn’t look like the 35 Cycleplane.
It’s amazing, how you can get a small group of people together to hype something up, and create a hysteria for it, and create a demand.
Bitcoin?


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## Nashman (May 7, 2022)

Marketing. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Personally, I'm too old to have ever experienced BMX, so don't "get it" and they look very plain to me. We tend to admire things we can relate to, remember, or are quite simply "eye candy".  It's partly an age thing. Take the Bowden for example. You love 'em or hate 'em. I "get" muscle bikes as that's what I grew up with. They emulate hot rods and fast cars.

Early ( pre mid 30's balloon) diamond shaped frames put me to sleep. All of our Canadian bikes looked like that. BMX are cool in that they were raced and tricked and many were made to exotic specs and materials from what I gather. To me, more is more. To some, less is more. I'll take a bicycle that looks like a motorcycle or a space ship, or hot rod over any other design. That's my taste. I like top heavy gals, dagmars if you will, ( not big shoulders) curves, and shiny things, or an item that tells a story with aged beauty.

I commend people that can create a market that doesn't appeal to everyone, but reaps them huge money. Why not? Just because I'm not in that market, or it doesn't appeal to me isn't wrong. I just don't "get it", so make fun of it. All in good taste I hope. Some guys like big bumpers, wide fenders, some don't. Lets all rejoice"Viva la difference"!!


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## cyclingday (May 8, 2022)

Abalootly!


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