# Schwinn Superior



## Sigh1961

Is $390.00 a reasonable price for a Superior?  Do you see anything missing or wrong with the bike?
The only problem is it looks like a 27" frame.  I can ride it, but I am on tip-toe when I stop.


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## Eric Amlie

It might be reasonable if you didn't have to pay shipping.
I have one of those also, and I love it!
Not as responsive as the Voyageur 11.8 though.


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## Schwinn499

If it was a screamin deal id say jump on it....but id hold out for one in my size at that price tho.

A very nice bike tho..


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## Dale Alan

I agree with all of the above .If it fit you it would be a nice snag.


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## Metacortex

That is actually a 1978 model (last year for these) in Sky Blue built on Friday July 28th, 1978 according to the badge number. It has the 2nd gen. forged Huret rear dropouts that are found only on some mid to late 1978 models. The frame size is 26", the largest of the three available sizes (others were 22" and 24"). Except for the tires, bar tape and missing toe clips/straps it appears to be very original including the saddle (which is rare). The decals on these are extremely fragile, on this bike they appear to be mostly intact but the cracking has started. The price is a bit high, but it might be worth it for the originality and decent paint, IF it fit you. You can see more pics here:  http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bik/5759853016.html

Here is the catalog page:


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## Sigh1961

Yeah, I was just wondering about pricing for the Superior.  I have seen others that were $500-$600. Right now I am hoping to snag Eric's Voyager.  Just a lot of stuff going on right now.  Stove took a dump, have to go to Arizona in October for a wedding. Trying to save money for the daughters wedding. Life keeps getting in the way.


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## momo608

Last year for Filet brazed frames as well. My favorite Schwinn lightweight.


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## momo608

Sigh1961 said:


> Yeah, I was just wondering about pricing for the Superior.  I have seen others that were $500-$600. Right now I am hoping to snag Eric's Voyager.  Just a lot of stuff going on right now.  Stove took a dump, have to go to Arizona in October for a wedding. Trying to save money for the daughters wedding. Life keeps getting in the way.



It occurred to me that you being new to all this that you haven't yet had the pleasure of reading articles from the late Sheldon Brown website. When I was new to bikes, collecting anyway, thought and still think that this is some of the best stuff out there.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/schwinn-braze.html


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## Metacortex

momo608 said:


> Last year for Filet brazed frames as well...



Fillet brazed frames were built by Schwinn through '83 in Chicago and at least up till '89 in Greenville MS.


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## momo608

Metacortex said:


> Fillet brazed frames were built by Schwinn through '83 in Chicago and at least up till '89 in Greenville MS.




I'm not aware of other filet brazed Schwinn lightweight offerings after these described below. 

Aside from the limited run of 28" continental's which is a factory custom of sorts because electroforged components were not produced for the head tube for a frame of this size. But this couldn't be described as a filet brazed frame in the traditional sense. 

This is wrong?

"Schwinn bicycle names such as "Super Sport" and "Superior" have been re-used for different models over the years, in part to hold on to copyrighted names by periodically re-using them. This may explain why the Sports Tourer was renamed the Superior in 1976. After Schwinn's fillet-brazed line came to an end in 1978, the "Superior" name went on to be used for the so-called "baby Paramount." That Superior was a Paramount frameset (lugged) with Campagnolo's lower-level Gran Sport component group and a bright orange paint job."

"Schwinn's Chicago handbuild shop was closed in 1979 and production of the Paramount came to a halt at that time. Paramount production resumed in Waterford, Wisconsin in 1981."

In 1979 Schwinn offered one last fillet-brazed CrMo bicycle: The "Sport Limited." The Sport Limited was sold to use up a supply of Super Sport frames that Schwinn still had in inventory. It was available only in a Scarlet Red color, in both women's and men's frame designs. About 1000 Sport Limited's were made and sold to Schwinn dealers for resale as they saw fit. A factory-suggested retail price was not given, and the Sport Limited did not appear in any catalog. The Sport Limited used wheels and other parts from the fillet-brazed Superior. An interesting feature of the Sport Limited was that although the frame had an Ashtabula bottom-bracket shell for one-piece cranks (like the Super Sport), a conversion bottom-bracket spindle was used to fit a "Schwinn Approved LeTour" aluminum-alloy cotterless crankset.

The technology of Schwinn's fillet brazed models has been eclipsed by today's bicycle frame, shifting, and braking technology. And the strategy of fillet brazing has been eclipsed too. But it is worth remembering this peculiar little chapter in the story of Chicago Schwinns.

Information for this article came from interviews with members of the Schwinn Bicycle Company (conducted in 1989), Schwinn Consumer Relations, the Schwinn History Center in Chicago, several Schwinn Bicycle Shops, Schwinn catalogs, and Mr. Robert Evans. Special thanks to Mr. Jim Hurd.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/schwinn-braze.html


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## Sigh1961

momo608 said:


> It occurred to me that you being new to all this that you haven't yet had the pleasure of reading articles from the late Sheldon Brown website. When I was new to bikes, collecting anyway, thought and still think that this is some of the best stuff out there.
> 
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/schwinn-braze.html



Thanks for the link. Really good info to recognize the fillet brazed Schwinns.


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## Metacortex

momo608 said:


> I'm not aware of other filet brazed Schwinn lightweight offerings after these described below.
> 
> Aside from the limited run of 28" continental's which is a factory custom of sorts because electroforged components were not produced for the head tube for a frame of this size. But this couldn't be described as a filet brazed frame in the traditional sense.
> 
> This is wrong?
> 
> "Schwinn bicycle names such as "Super Sport" and "Superior" have been re-used for different models over the years, in part to hold on to copyrighted names by periodically re-using them. This may explain why the Sports Tourer was renamed the Superior in 1976. After Schwinn's fillet-brazed line came to an end in 1978...
> 
> ...In 1979 Schwinn offered one last fillet-brazed CrMo bicycle: The "Sport Limited."...




Unfortunately some of that information is incorrect. While that article is outstanding, it needs a few updates and corrections. For example the Sport Limited was built during a few weeks in late 1977 and not in '79 as stated. As you said the 28" Continental had a fillet-brazed headtube in '82 and '83, and while it wasn't a complete fillet-brazed bike I do believe it counts. But there are several other more significant fillet-brazed model omissions including the '80-'82 Sting (BMX) and '81-'82 King-Sting (ATBs also available in 5- and 10-speed models). 

Then there were the fillet-brazed tandems including the Twinn, Deluxe Twinn, Mini-Twinn and Paramount Tandem which was built from '69 through '79, But what I believe was the last *Chicago* fillet-brazed bike would be the Twinn Sport, introduced in 1978 and built into 1983. Here is the '83 Twinn Sport catalog page:






A notable post-Chicago fillet-brazed model was the '85-'89 Cimarron, which I believe was built in Greenville MS, however like the 28" Continental the Cimarron had fillet-brazing only on the headtube. It used ovalized top and down tubing there similar to the Sting and King-Sting:


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## momo608

I really hate these hair splitting disagreements but I think it's safe to say the 1978 Schwinn Superior WAS Schwinns last filet brazed lightweight as Schwinn filet brazed frames became to be known. Once you have to start putting in all kind of asterisks in the description, you're talking about something else. 

Kind of like the 1982 being last model year for Chicago built EF bikes. It was because the 83's had no official Schwinn model designations or catalogs saying such, clearly early 83 dated bikes are an extension of the 1982 model year. Kind of like 69 Camaro's built in early 1970 because of a delay in generation 2 Camaro's. No one thinks of a 69 Camaro as a 70 Camaro because it was built in 1970. It was a carry over because of production problems and it is in reality a 1969 model car.


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## Metacortex

momo608 said:


> I really hate these hair splitting disagreements but I think it's safe to say the 1978 Schwinn Superior WAS Schwinns last filet brazed lightweight as Schwinn filet brazed frames became to be known. Once you have to start putting in all kind of asterisks in the description, you're talking about something else.




It sounds like you are putting in the asterisks with the *lightweight* designation. In that case I guess it depends on your definition of "lightweight". The '82 King Sting 10 had a 4130 fillet-brazed frame and weighed only 26 lbs. It looks to me like a lightweight with tourist handlebars, kind of like a fillet-brazed Suburban without fenders:







> Kind of like the 1982 being last model year for Chicago built EF bikes. It was because the 83's had no official Schwinn model designations or catalogs saying such...




1983 was the last year for Chicago EF bikes and they were in the "official" Family Bicycles catalog that year (same as the Twinn Sport), I have a Chicago-built '83 Continental with a Feb. '83 frame stamp and April 20th build date. Here is the "official" '83 Continental catalog page:





The Continental was also built in '84 but no longer in Chicago, here is the '84 catalog page:





For '85 the Continental was gone, leaving the Varsity as the last EF lightweight bike, *not* built in Chicago. Here are the '85 Varsity catalog pages:








I can get that you don't want to consider the Tandems as "lightweight" bikes, but they *were* fillet-brazed and the 10-speed models (especially the Paramount but also the Twinn Sport) are basically tandem "lightweights" built using the same components as other similar 10-speed lightweights, except for the fillet-brazed frames.


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## SirMike1983

I did not know that there was fillet brazing in the Mississippi plant, but then I never really looked at that later era in any detail. Did skilled workers move with the company to the new plant, or did they have to train new people to do the work? I've always heard the Greenville bikes were not of the best quality, though I've never had any complaints about the ones I've encountered.


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## Metacortex

I have believed that the Cimarron was made in MS, but considering the quality of the build and the poor reputation of Greenville it *may* have been built in Waterford WI. It was very similar to the Waterford built '87 Paramountain frameset except for the fillet-brazed headtube. Unfortunately I haven't found any further details.


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## momo608

I stand corrected on the 83 models. Not sure what you would call the construction of the 84's and 5's but like the classic filet brazed lightweights, they are not EF's as we knew them, as we discussed before.

I'm satisfied with the authors article about filet brazed frame lightweights.


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## momo608

[QUOTE="Metacortex, post: 621016, member: 43802"






I can get that you don't want to consider the Tandems as "lightweight" bikes, but they *were* fillet-brazed and the 10-speed models (especially the Paramount but also the Twinn Sport) are basically tandem "lightweights" built using the same components as other similar 10-speed lightweights, except for the fillet-brazed frames. [/QUOTE]

The tandems appear to be a mix of filet brazing, welding and some electroforging. Is this true? never examined one close up.


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## Eric Amlie

I don't get the poor reputation of the Greenville bikes. I own a bunch of them, mostly '87-'88 models and I think they are great bikes.
They ride much better than any of my older Schwinns that came out of the Chicago plant, except the Paramounts of course.
My '87 & 88 Tempos, '87 Super Sport, '87 Circuit, '87 Peloton, & '87 Prologue make riding my fillet brazed Chicago bikes seem like riding a "truck".
Apologies if that offends the purists here, but that is my seat of the pants impression from riding the various bikes.


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## Metacortex

The tandems were nearly all fillet-brazed construction. The only exceptions were the chainstays, the seat tube at the rear bottom bracket shell and the rear part of the upper seat stays. On the Twinn Sport several of the joints were left unfinished, see the center of the headtube, the bottom brackets and the center seat stay as examples:














Here is a Twinn frame blasted where you can see all the brass:


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## Metacortex

Eric Amlie said:


> I don't get the poor reputation of the Greenville bikes. I own a bunch of them, mostly '87-'88 models and I think they are great bikes.
> They ride much better than any of my older Schwinns that came out of the Chicago plant, except the Paramounts of course.
> My '87 & 88 Tempos, '87 Super Sport, '87 Circuit, '87 Peloton, & '87 Prologue make riding my fillet brazed Chicago bikes seem like riding a "truck".




Not all of the '80s bikes were made in Greenville. This is from an '85 "Reporter" (renamed the Schwinn Eagle by then) article talking about the '86 models:


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## Eric Amlie

If that implies that the Circuit & Prologue(I misspoke, my Peloton is a '98 model I believe), were made somewhere other than Greenville, I still can detect virtually no difference between my '87 Super Sport and my '87 Circuit. Actually, I can detect a difference between the Prelude & the Tempo, but above that they all seem to ride about the same to me.


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## Metacortex

Other than what is said in that article I don't know where the '80s bikes were made however I do believe that any original bikes made in other countries would have a decal to that effect.


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