# Swift Ladies'? Gent's?



## TR6SC (May 4, 2018)

28" wheels on a tall step through frame. Although it has a Ladies' seat, this seems like a Men's bike to me. 


 It has a VERY tall frame, and no holes for skirtguard lacing. No real badge, just a decal and striping.


Single rod brake for the front wheel...

 
I've never seen a chaincase that only has one side.

 
...and a 36 spoke coaster on the rear with a wide open view of the chain.

 
32 spokes up front.


 
I'm new to these Perry hubs. This one has a screw-on cog. 


 
There is an N on the inside of each of the crank arms. 



Big pedals that further suggest a Gent's cycle.


Zoom in to read DUNLOP WAR GRADE. 


 
So, what is the age of this machine?
Is this a Men's bike?
As always, Thanks to all who chime in with input.


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## fordmike65 (May 4, 2018)




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## SirMike1983 (May 5, 2018)

It's technically a "ladies" frame in the sense that the looping top tube is meant to accommodate a lady's skirt while she rides. Older English bikes tend to have some very odd frame sizes, including some very, very tall frames. The trend in those days was to ride the biggest frame size that would reasonably fit you.

But you are also correct that a man may have been using this bicycle based on its size and the pedals. It was not unusual for older men to ride this style of frame as a utility or shopper bike because this style of frame allows you to get onto and off of the bicycle without having to climb over a diamond frame top tube. The lower top tube is useful if you have arthritis or limited range of motion of the legs getting onto and off of the bike. This style of frame was popular as a "shopper" or "town" bike for both men and women.

Some of the old Perry hubs have a date stamped on the inside surface of the brake reaction arm. Here in the U.S. we usually associate Perry hubs with 1950s-60s Schwinn middleweights, but Perry hubs do go back much further in England. Check the reaction arm for the date stamp.


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## slowride (May 6, 2018)

From the 1922 swift catalogue . Maybe rear fender was replaced at some point?


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## dnc1 (May 8, 2018)

Definitely a ladies model when sold, I have a ladies Loop-frame Rudge and what remains of the original pedals are of similar dimensions. My friends wife is around 6 feet tall and she has a couple of ladies bicycles that are of suitable frame size for her.
If the plated parts are Nickel, produced up to 1928. If chrome, post 1928. That's a basic rule of thumb for English bicycles.


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## dnc1 (May 8, 2018)

Swift frames were available in 22", 24" & 26" sizes.
The positioning of the pump pegs may help in determining which model it might be.


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## TR6SC (May 8, 2018)

dnc1 said:


> Swift frames were available in 22", 24" & 26" sizes.
> The positioning of the pump pegs may help in determining which model it might be.



Hey Darren, No pump pegs on the bike. I don't know if this measurement from the top of the seat tube to the center of cranks is the correct correlation to a Gent's bike. The bottom foto shows the steering tube 4" taller than on a man's machine


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## dnc1 (May 9, 2018)

Frame size is measured in the same way as a gents model, so that would actually make your example the smallest size available. That tall headtube is a design hangover from the early days of the safety bicycle (think of early 1890's gents bikes with upward sloping top tubes and tall headtubes), but whereas gents frame geometry underwent many and various changes/fashions women's frames pretty much stagnated. It gives a very relaxed, comfortable riding stance though, especially when coupled with those 28" wheels.
Nice example, by a relatively unusual maker. So is it chrome or nickel?


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## TR6SC (May 9, 2018)

dnc1 said:


> Frame size is measured in the same way as a gents model, so that would actually make your example the smallest size available. That tall headtube is a design hangover from the early days of the safety bicycle (think of early 1890's gents bikes with upward sloping top tubes and tall headtubes), but whereas gents frame geometry underwent many and various changes/fashions women's frames pretty much stagnated. It gives a very relaxed, comfortable riding stance though, especially when coupled with those 28" wheels.
> Nice example, by a relatively unusual maker. So is it chrome or nickel?



Hey dnc1, thanks for the excellent info. I am finding this to be an interesting cycle, for sure. It sounds like this bike must be a '29 or '30 based on the nickel/chromium transition. The handlebars and brake lever are nickel. The remaining bright parts are chrome. There must've been a number of bars that were left over from an earlier run.


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## SirMike1983 (May 9, 2018)

The bike certainly is earlier than most English 3-speeds in the U.S. The nickel bars are a nice element to have - not common in the U.S. on an English bike because we see so many later bikes here. You mentioned the bike came into the U.S. through Canada, and given how early the bike is, that makes sense. The Canadians had more access to these bikes earlier on than the U.S. market did.


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## TR6SC (May 9, 2018)

The plot thickens and the game is afoot! Follow the money (nickel). Upon closer inspection, it appears to have nickel hubs also, not with the luster of the bars, but still nickel. The front says Phillips, the rear Perry.
The painted brake stirrups say Phillips. They are flat and straplike, without any airfoil shape like I've seen on Raleighs. Wingspan of the handlebars is 19" which matches my Gent's DL1. Lastly, the gearing ratio works out to a 72" effective wheel, and the cranks are 6-1/2" HMMMMM!!!


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## dnc1 (May 9, 2018)

I don't know if you are aware that there is a "Swift" club over here.
Catering for both cars and cycles.....

www.theswiftclub.co.uk

They have a register of cycles and you may find more help there.
Incidentally, the Coventry factory went bust around 1931; two years later the rights to the name were sold and production started in Birmingham, they were still manufacturing in the 1960's.


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## TR6SC (May 9, 2018)

But wait! There's more. As Sheldon says in his Bible, it's all about the ISO. 
Here we have "Standard" British Roadster Tyres. 


See? 28X1-1/2. 

 28 x 1 1/2 635 mm English, Dutch, Chinese, Indian Rod-brake roadsters
(Also marked F10, F25, 700 B)

If the tyre says Canadian Size, you can bet it's in reference and respect to the Queen, right?



NOPE! It's an F.13, and we all know what that means,  "F'n unlucky! 

622 mm (F.13) Rare Canadian designation
28 x 1 5/8 x
1 1/4 Northern European designation for the 622 mm (700 C) size

See, it says it right there, Jointless 28X1-3/4 F.13


 
PALMER MADE IN ENGLAND


 
It wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the fact that the other wheel is an honest to goodness, non-Canadian, 28X1-1/2(635) British Roadster rim and tyre. I'm in luck though. Schwalbe make a matching pair of 622/635 tires. Two in fact. The Delta and The Marathon.


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## Kickstand3 (May 9, 2018)

TR6SC said:


> But wait! There's more. As Sheldon says in his Bible, it's all about the ISO.
> Here we have "Standard" British Roadster Tyres. View attachment 804165
> See? 28X1-1/2. View attachment 804166 28 x 1 1/2 635 mm English, Dutch, Chinese, Indian Rod-brake roadsters
> (Also marked F10, F25, 700 B)
> ...




Do it . I want to see this baby on the Road!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## dnc1 (May 9, 2018)

Which rim has the Phillips hub?


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## TR6SC (May 10, 2018)

dnc1 said:


> Which rim has the Phillips hub?



The Phillips Hub is the front, 32 spokes. The chrome is fairly beaten up, or shall I say, beat-down. Years of rod brake friction have rubbed a lot of it away. 635.
The 36 hole rear Perry is a clean rim. 622.
Part of me is thinking of finding a couple cleanish 635 rims, something with some patina. That would allow me more than just a couple of tyre choices.


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## bulldog1935 (May 10, 2018)

TR6SC said:


> ..
> Part of me is thinking of finding a couple cleanish 635 rims, something with some patina. That would allow me more than just a couple of tyre choices.



not if you do the math.  If you can run 622 on both, you'll have a world of tires at your disposal _ad infinitum.  _
and big cushy fast tires if you want them
_https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/components/tires/700c/compass-700c-x-44-snoqualmie-pass/_


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## TR6SC (May 10, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> not if you do the math.  If you can run 622 on both, you'll have a world of tires at your disposal _ad infinitum.  _
> and big cushy fast tires if you want them
> _https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/components/tires/700c/compass-700c-x-44-snoqualmie-pass/_
> 
> View attachment 804722



I'd like a pair of 622s for the freedom to choose from all those tires, but alas poor yorick


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## TR6SC (May 10, 2018)

TR6SC said:


> I'd like a pair of 622s for the freedom to choose from all those tires, but alas poor yorick



The bike has rod brakes so I must run Westwoods or Westrick rims. I think tough to find in 622, no?


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## bulldog1935 (May 10, 2018)

TR6SC said:


> I'd like a pair of 622s for the freedom to choose from all those tires, but alas poor yorick



you could always rebuild with wide alloy rims - and of course understand your point


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## TR6SC (May 10, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> you could always rebuild with wide alloy rims - and of course understand your point
> View attachment 804725



That's a good point. The wider rims Would allow for a braking surface. But, appearances would be compromised. If it were a more modern rod brake bike, I just might go that route, but I'll seek and me shall find, at least for a while. I hope. Surely there's a rim out there.


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## dnc1 (May 11, 2018)

I recently purchased these off of eBay UK.
I have built them up as my universal set of wheels that will fit several bikes.
Seen here on my 'Minaco'.....




 

 

700c (622) and made for rod brakes, I believe they are Dutch made but will check later. They are also aluminium.


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## bulldog1935 (May 11, 2018)

dnc1 said:


> I recently purchased these off of eBay UK.
> I have built them up as my universal set of wheels that will fit several bikes.
> Seen here on my 'Minaco'.....
> 
> ...



Darren, hunt for some links to those trick rims.  There are some very good UK and continental bike shops that will ship rims to US.  xxcycle, bike24, etc.


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## TR6SC (May 11, 2018)

dnc1 said:


> I recently purchased these off of eBay UK.
> I have built them up as my universal set of wheels that will fit several bikes.
> Seen here on my 'Minaco'.....
> 
> ...



I saw those unpainted rims. They look sharp. Perhaps powder coating would hold up to the brake pad abrasion. Either way, they do look like a great option for TOCs. Thanks for that post.


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## bulldog1935 (May 11, 2018)

TR6SC said:


> ...Perhaps powder coating would hold up to the brake pad abrasion. ...



not even close, only modern Type III anodizing will handle that job


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## dnc1 (May 11, 2018)

They are black painted, may not show up too well in the photos.
Will try and find link this evening.


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## SirMike1983 (May 15, 2018)

Black rims were a period economy option in the 1920s-30s on many of the English bikes. The riders just let the brake pads wear through the paint and ran bare steel brake surfaces once the paint was gone. I had a '35 Hercules with exactly that some years ago. Once they're worn, they look at home if you have other "black" parts on it.


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