# Pierce from about 1900?



## gben (Sep 30, 2016)

Just pulled this out of the basement of a local estate sale. I never had a pre-balloon bike before so would appreciate any information on it. Frame is a 23" and bike surprised the crap out of me with how light it is. I spritzed it with blaster, I think it will clean up fairly well. I am tall and am about 220 pounds in weight, maybe I am too big to ride it someday after it is fixed up? I would love it if someone could date the bike, tell what model it is etc.. Thanks in advance:


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## filmonger (Oct 1, 2016)

Cool Find....

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/pierce-bicycle-serial-numbers.71746/page-5#post-603677

Here is a thread that might help..... there are more in the archives. Below is our serial number chart - Can I add yours to the list? The Color version is on the thread.

We are attempting to fig out the date progression through serial number dating as we have not had much luck finding documentation. To date, educated speculation is based on cat's, ads ,new model introduction, frame construction, chainring parts and their introduction etc.....

Can we have a better picture of the front badge? Is there any markings on the rims? Is there any markings on the hubs? Closer pic of the pedals? Closer look at the chain ( markings )

Based on your serial number yours could possibly date around 1902 / 3ish. This is by no means a hard date and others may have something else to add. You parts might also help us pin it down slightly.

*Updated 13-06-16 .... *

_XXXX Special Man's - No Serial No's ( need to check rear dropout ) Not on BB, Not Lugged, Chained, Nickel fork - ( Cabe owner ) The cabe...Pictured below ( 1890's? )_
55972 Special Man's c1898 - Collected by Dave Toppin
58877 ( Stamped on seat post ) Rear steering Tandem ( dfa242 ) The Cabe
*57365 Special Model 344 Chain driven cushion ( Flat Spring by Crank ) - Shawn - believed to be 1901/2….the cabe*
60292 Racer Man’s - Collected by Dave Toppin
61758 ( stamped on Seat tube ) Tom ( Tommydale1950) The cabe
63456 ( stamped on Seat tube ) Special Racer - riveted below badge( corbettclassics ) The Cabe
*76088 Men’s Chainless - ( Jeff Powell ) Cushion frame, spring forks (no shackles), New Departure/P&F Corbin coaster brake, Christy saddleBadge: The Geo. N. Pierce Co., Buffalo*
77092 Special Racer - Nickel Plated
*85410 Men's Chainless - Hygienic Cushion frame - No springer fork ( Mikeymike ) the Cabe
86133 Cushion Chain Driven - Thought to be 1901 ( Richard Smith )
87605 Cushion Shaft Drive ( Richard Smith )
96665 Ladies Chainless ( Jeff Powell ) Cushion frame, Spring forks w/shackles, Pierce New Departure coaster brake, Christy saddle
Badge: The Geo. N. Pierce Co., Buffalo
106877 Cushion Shaft Drive ( Richard Smith )
106877 Chainless Men’s - collected by David Toppin - Again not sure if he is referring to Richards bike
135320 Cushion Chain driven model - believed to be a 1903/4? ( Will Cress ) Stamped on Seat tube
135320 Chainless - collected by David Toppin…Not sure if he is referring to Will’s or if this is another Model?
145187 ( Stamped on Seat tube ) Cushion Chain driven model, Shakled nickel spring fork- ( Cabe Owner ) Thought to be 1910*
x1492b1 (Stamped on Dropout ) Chain Driven model - Collared seat tube (Redline1968) The Cabe....odd serial number? Thought to be post 1908
152026 Chain Driven - LuxLow Stamped on Dropout
156523 ( Stamped on dropout ) Thought to be Special Racer - missing Special racer plate - Collared seat post, Buffalo Badge. Kirk Thomas - the cabe ( thought to be orig. purchased in 1914 )
165302 Man's c1900 ….collected by David Toppin
165509 - Model 110 Special Racer ( Carey Williams ) stamped on dropout
165509 Special Racer Man’s ..Collected by David Toppin - not sure if he is referring to Carey’s bike
166682 Model 121. Pierce Cycle Co, Buffalo badge. ( dfa252 ) stamped on dropout

170381 Racer Badge is Pierce Cycle Co., Buffalo ( Jeff Powell )
178873 (stamped on drop out) Frank Kramer Special (twowheelfan) the Cabe
180173 Chain driven , Pace bike with Lap bell - type 4 Buffalo badge ( Gary - Gkeep ) The cabe
185513 ( stamped on drop out ) Tom ( Tommydale1950) The cabe

--------------------------------------------------------------- ( Angola Badged )
_*( in theory when Emblem bought out Pierce and changed badge in 1918 )*_

255073 ( Stamped on BB ) Frank Kramer Special (PKS) Professional Track Racer, Lugged / BSA Chainring, Angola Badged ( Cabe Owner ) The Cabe
256237 Pierce SBBR ( Carlitos ) considered to be a 1922 model
263054 Frank Kramer Special (PKS) Professional Track Racer Model Lugged ( Kccomet ) The Cabe
303434 Frank Kramer Special (PKS ) Lugged / BSA Chainring, Chrome (Nickel?) plated frame ( Dweber ) The Cabe
320717 Frank Kramer Special (PKS) Nickel Frame, Lugged Head ( Cabe Owner ) The Cabe


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## gben (Oct 1, 2016)

Thanks Fil, I really just got the bike and have not had a chance to clean it up or even look at it in the light of day yet.

  I did not see any name on the frame, it just looks black with nice pinstripes up and down most of the tubes.

   No brakes it is a fixie, the reason I thought it had a rear brake before is because the hard rear tire would stop turning if I pushed the bike while pushing the cranks backwards....duh.

     By all means add this bike to whatever list you want if it will help, especially after a day or two when I have had a chance to look at it closely and get you more details.


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## Freqman1 (Oct 1, 2016)

Is the hub a fixed hub? The pinstripes may off some clue as to year. My '02 is solid black and no stripes were offered according to the '02 catalog. I'm thinking your bike has to be early '03? Thanks for sharing-awesome original bike. I love those grips! V/r Shawn


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## jkent (Oct 1, 2016)

Very nice find. Killer bike.
Too bad that Sager sadle isn't in better shape.  I need to find some basements like that around here.
JKent


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## bikewhorder (Oct 1, 2016)

Wow that is a Great Score!  Whats up  with the sprocket on the left side? Is that factory or did someone just flip it?   And what's the deal with that little set screw on the crank arm?  Sorry more questions than answers...


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## gben (Oct 1, 2016)

Just goes to show you how damn tired, old and senile I am, I did not even notice that the sprockets were on the left side of the bike..... Is there someone who sells new covers for these saddles or repairs them? And it would also be nice to have a good set of tires for the bike so it could be ridden, the tires on it seem to be hardened. Or....is this bike something that should just be left as it is and not fixed up at all? I thought it would be cool to ride it around town at some point, but if the bike is more important than my need to have fun I can respect that and just have it as a wall-hanger and just keep riding more modern bikes....


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## bikewhorder (Oct 1, 2016)

gben said:


> Just goes to show you how damn tired, old and senile I am, I did not even notice that the sprockets were on the left side of the bike..... Is there someone who sells new covers for these saddles or repairs them? And it would also be nice to have a good set of tires for the bike so it could be ridden, the tires on it seem to be hardened. Or....is this bike something that should just be left as it is and not fixed up at all? I thought it would be cool to ride it around town at some point, but if the bike is more important than my need to have fun I can respect that and just have it as a wall-hanger and just keep riding more modern bikes....




I wouldn't touch any of the original parts but you could switch them out without too much harm. A newer saddle and some modern size wheels would get you rolling.  IMO though a bike that has survived this intact for 110+ years is way too special to just have fun with.


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## Duchess (Oct 1, 2016)

Here's my Iver and what I changed out to make it rideable. I was using the original bars, but I use this as a slow cruiser to get ice cream and such and the bend was wearing on me. All the original stuff is packed away.


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## jkent (Oct 1, 2016)

I agree with above. I would not try to ride on the OG wood wheels, If you plan to ride it find a set of modern 700c wheels to ride on. Save the seat and wheels that are on it. I would not get rid of them. If your just storing the bike put the OG parts back on. 
Service all the bearings, put modern wheels on and lace them with an appropriate hub that would work with the front sproket and chain and find a different seat. 
The Sager seat MIGHT be fixable but your probably looking at recovering it. And yes there are a couple guys on here that do excellent work recovering these old saddles. 
I personally would not touch the bike other than service and clean it up and maybe show the bike off every once in a while.
You have a nice bike but it's worth more as is than as a rider with modern parts.
I'd be more than happy to take it off your hands and for the funds you get out of it you could buy a more modern bike to ride. HaHa!
Good luck with it, in what ever direction you decide to go in with it.
JKent


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## gben (Oct 1, 2016)

Update,  Could this be some sort of old track bike since the rear hub  is a fixed gear?

     I cleaned the bike up, took the seat post out and put it back in a bit higher, aired up the tires and rode it up the block and back a few times. Before I thought it had a rear brake but it does not, the rear tire just skids when you push back on the crank because the tires are hard and skid easily.  

           Front badge says bike is from Buffalo, NY, which is only 100 miles away from me.
          Gearing is high, like one of the top high gears on my mountain-bike, not for doing any grades or  hills. Rear rim is painted black and pinstriped like the frame of the bike, front rim is natural finish so it must have been replaced at one point is my guess.

         I think I am leaning towards just hanging this bike from the ceiling or something similar. If am not going to go to the trouble of swapping all the parts out with new parts when I can just jump on my Marin Mountainbike or onto some other newer bike and go for a ride. I guess it is just a museum piece.....I don't think the bike will mind just as I will not mind if I live to be 113 and can still sit here and look at the world go by.

        Thanks for all the info and advice so far, and I would love to hear any info or opinions of the bike and it's cycle-parts. I confess I rode the bike down the block and back with the bars up and flipped over so they were low, and either way it was fun.


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## rustyspoke66 (Oct 1, 2016)

Fixed gear was very common but like bikewhorder said, wow!! Left side drive train...?!


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## filmonger (Oct 1, 2016)

This is interesting..... I have been told that the Pierce Arrow Museum has documentation. Since you are close - maybe you could stop by and do some research for us ( and yourself ) in their archives? I would be very interested in the outcome - as would others here in the cabe.

http://www.pierce-arrow.com/history


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## gben (Oct 1, 2016)

It is geared very high, 46 tooth crank sprocket, 16 tooth rear sprocket. Whoever rode it last must have been riding only on flat streets and at very high speed. I used to do a bit of bicycle racing twenty or so years ago and I am pretty sure this is geared to do between 20-30 mph. 

   I got a little wind-up bell with the bike but it's bracket needed a bit of repair before it would go on, just needed a rivet and some cleaning inside. There was also a headlamp with the bike that has some issues, I will try to get it on in the near future. 

   More photos:

   Rear wheel pinstripe matches that of frame:






   Badge head-on:





    Badge right side:




Badge left side:




















     Nickel plating on fork responded to Autosol cleaner:





          Handlebar grip:





        Headset:





























       Seat stem nut with Pierce script:










  Serial number is in red!:


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## bikewhorder (Oct 1, 2016)

That is a really outstanding find. I think being fixed gear that crank could go in either way and it would still work so this could just be the way someone decided to put it together.  But that's just a guess..


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## fordmike65 (Oct 1, 2016)

Man that thing is AWESOME! I don't think I'd derust or polish anything. That patina is KILLER!


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## locomotion (Oct 1, 2016)

check your PM, GBen


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## filmonger (Oct 1, 2016)

Very very nice........and interesting. Any markings on that rear hub? Do marking on the rims say Lobdell? Is there any Paperwork in the seat downtube when you pull the seat stem? What are the markings in the Block Chain?


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## scrubbinrims (Oct 1, 2016)

OH
MY 
GOD
!
Chris


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## TR6SC (Oct 1, 2016)

Beautiful. If I'm correct, your sprockets are 24/8x28=84 inches. That IS tall gearing.


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## gben (Oct 1, 2016)

Well if we take 28" time 3.14 it gives 88 inches, but the rear tire flattens a bit under the rider's weight so 84 is probably accurate. Divided by 12 gives seven feet. 46 teeth divided by 16 teeth gives a ratio of 2.875 multiplied by 7 feet gives 20.125 feet per pedal revolution. If a racer pedaled the bike at 90 rpm he would go 1811 feet per minute, times 60 would be 108,675 feet per hour, divided by 5280(feet per mile) gives 20.58 mph. So I was just barely correct. An above average racer is supposed to be able to hold 100-110 rpm for a time-trial, so he would be well up in the 20s.

      Filmonger, I will try to take a look at the parts and features you are interested in when I get a chance maybe tomorrow or Monday. That is interesting about a paper in the seat tube. I did not see any name on any of the hubs, but the rear is pretty rust-pitted in spots and it is hard to get to for cleaning being between all those spokes. I did not see any markings on the chain link on the side that is facing out, I will take a look at the other side of the chain soon.

       I do not have a cell phone so the only time I can look at this page is when I can get to a desktop computer and log in, so I apologize if I do not respond to questions as quickly as some others are able to.

       I re-measured the frame when a buddy of mine was over taking a look at the bike and it is closer to 22. 5" than it is to 23", center of crank to center of seat tube, a bit too small for me as I usually ride at least a 24"er.

      Problems with the bike as it sits:
                                                                Needs a new chain, this one is rusty and has a seized link, one rear spoke is broken, so maybe some of the others are weak. Rear tube does not hold air. Seat is disintegrated, I have electrical tape holding it together now, needs to be replaced or redone along with probably the entire bike being taken down, cleaned and lubricated.

     The buddy of mine who looked at it today is our cities biggest bicycle nut, he has a scale in his house and can guess the weight of a bicycle to a pound by hand usually. He said he thought this Pierce weighs about 25 pounds.

     The bell, probably old-hat to some of you guys, but it is clockwork, you wind it up by turning the bell clockwise, then it rings when you push a button in . On the bottom of it's clamp I think it says "Standard".


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## Duchess (Oct 2, 2016)

If you do decide to change to new wheels, you may need to locate a suitable front hub. My Iver is about 90mm rather than the 100 that's been pretty much standard for decades, even on BMXs. I got a pair of ~1930 era New Departure Model Ws on ebay that fit for $25. The rear hub I used is a Velosteel coaster hub. They have thread-on and 3-prong cog types. With the 3-prong, you can get repro skiptooth cogs. With the thread-on, I tried to find a 3/32" one that fit the Velosteel, but couldn't (I picked up a New Departure that was close, but didn't fit), so I changed to the 3-prong. Originally, I used an even-numbered cog and ground off every other tooth, but it was 1/8 thickness instead of the 3/16 of the chain and it was starting to wear the center bearings in the chain a little. Funny enough, it's louder with the repro cog in the right thickness. I'm hoping it breaks in. I imagine the Pierce is similar, but this Iver rides really well.


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## gben (Oct 5, 2016)

Hi all. Have not done much with the Pierce. I thought I would throw up a photo of the headlamps I got with the bike, and also a photo I got from the same estate which the Pierce came from. I do not think the bike in the photo is the Pierce, but it is certainly an old bicycle:


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## gkeep (Oct 6, 2016)

Great find!! My Pierce Roadster has the same crank arms, sprocket and nickel forks. Yours has much better paint, it's held up really well. 


 


 
Headlamps too! I'm jealous. Those grips are the bees knees.
Enjoy yourself, what a great bike and incredible condition. Can you tell if the photo is the same bike?

Bet regards,
Gary


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## gben (Oct 6, 2016)

The bike in the old photo looks like it has a smaller O.D. frame tube set that the Pierce, but who knows.....


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## locomotion (Oct 7, 2016)

well we have some good info on the Pierce, great bike, now, lets see that Norton that was behind it in the first post


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## gben (Oct 7, 2016)

Locomotion, my father was a dealer/racer of British motorcycles in the late 50s and early 60s and we still have a few laying around. That was my 1962 Norton 650ss that got into that photo. Maybe if someone on this forum has a thread for old motorbikes I can participate in it, but I would rather keep this thread about the Pierce....


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## gben (Oct 10, 2016)

This is a photo from the estate which this Pierce came from. It looks like it might be the bike back in the day, nickel fork etc.. What do you think??? Even if it is not the bike, it is one of four or five old photos from the TOC this family had on hand showing bicycles.


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## gben (Oct 16, 2016)

In case anyone missed them, these are pages from a 1904 catalog that was up on Ebay for sale. Looks like my bike could be a Men's Special model 513 with the nickeled fork.


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## filmonger (Oct 16, 2016)

Did they have the cushion models in the Cat.?


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## gben (Oct 16, 2016)

Filmonger, if you read the page of the catalog it tells about options for the seat and many other items. 

    What is most interesting to me is the gearing options. Not being any sort of a bicycle expert I had never seen gearing expressed in the number of inches the bicycle would travel for each pedal revolution. Notice the high 84" gearing is standard for the men's bicycles, shorter for the women's bicycles and shorter gearing is offered as an option for all the chain-driven bicycles. 

     7" cranks are standard for the men's cycles, which my example has, but shorter cranks are offered on the women's cycles and as options on all others. Many different saddles are offered. 

     The Pierce I found would be a "special" model because of it's nickel plated fork, and this would also give it a few other little upgrades. I am still not sure what year this bike is, but it has to be close to 1903 give or take a few years. 

       If you right-click on the photos of the catalog you should be able to save them to your computer then enlarge them with photo software to read what they say about the bikes.


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## corbettclassics (Oct 17, 2016)

In the catalogue picture it shows the nickeled fork with a nickel head tube as well.  Is this the Special 513 model?


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## gben (Oct 17, 2016)

corbettclassics said:


> In the catalogue picture it shows the nickeled fork with a nickel head tube as well.  Is this the Special 513 model?




    Right, the base chain-drive bikes have the 50x numbers and black forks, the Special models are numbered 51x and have the nickel fork and different pedals and chains. 

     Since my bike does not have the nickel head-tube I am just guessing that it is not a 1904 but might be a 1903 or 1905. Above someone commented that the 1902 catalog does not list pinstripes, nor does this catalog, maybe none of them do? 

      The other interesting thing is that it lists the No. 211 handlebars as being standard for the 50x and 51x models and that those handlebars are "reversible", I wonder if this means that the bars can be flipped so they are high or low such as the bars on my bike easily do simply by undoing the locknut holding them down. 

      These men's 50x and 51x icycles seem to be very sporty with their light weight, 7-inch cranks, high gear and reversible bars and lack of fenders.


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## Jeff54 (Oct 17, 2016)

gben said:


> Right, the base chain-drive bikes have the 50x numbers and black forks, the Special models are numbered 51x and have the nickel fork and different pedals and chains.
> 
> Since my bike does not have the nickel head-tube I am just guessing that it is not a 1904 but might be a 1903 or 1905. Above someone commented that the 1902 catalog does not list pinstripes, nor does this catalog, maybe none of them do? .



This is said to be 1896: http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/786655-1896-pierce.html


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## gkeep (Oct 18, 2016)

Hi,
Revisiting this I noticed no one has commented on the headbadge style. If you look at the thread when I was asking questions about my Pierce or the thread on Pierce Serial numbers you can see your headbadge is the Type #3 used from 1898-1907 on the nice chart that Filmonger provided. http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/pierce-bicycle-serial-numbers.71746/.

Gary


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## gben (Oct 19, 2016)

gkeep said:


> Hi,
> Revisiting this I noticed no one has commented on the headbadge style.
> Gary




      Thanks Gary. If someone is fairly certain that the head badge on the bike is original to it, then that is a great clue as to the bikes age.


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## olderthandirt (Oct 24, 2016)

Cool rider


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## olderthandirt (Oct 24, 2016)

Mike Cates may have  new chain for you  he's on the wheelman site and has bikes for sale now  you may glen his number there


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## TR6SC (Oct 24, 2016)

Mike Cates 760-473-6201


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## bricycle (Oct 25, 2016)

Jeff54 said:


> This is said to be 1896: http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/786655-1896-pierce.html




Those handle bar guards (short rubber things) are quite rare. I have one, but here are two! (need to be softened with brake fluid or other to remove first tho-)


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## gben (Apr 11, 2017)

I did not do anything on this Pierce over the winter as I do not have a heated workshop and our winters are harsh. Today I was taking a look at the rear rim which is painted black and pinstriped like the frame of the bike and saw this label on it: 




 

   I will probably just clean this bike up and have it be a wall-hanger. I think preserving it as an original artifact is more important that making it usable, especially for someone that is a bit too tall for it like myself. Mike Cates wants ridiculous prices for 1"x3/16" chain, over $50 a foot!!. So I will just clean up the original chain and put it back on the bike, clean the bearings, glue some tires back on the rim after I fix the one broken spoke and call it a day. Someone I know has been in touch with the Pierce museum in Buffalo, NY about this bike so it may end up there someday.


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## Jeff54 (Apr 11, 2017)

gben said:


> I did not do anything on this Pierce over the winter as I do not have a heated workshop and our winters are harsh. Today I was taking a look at the rear rim which is painted black and pinstriped like the frame of the bike and saw this label on it:
> 
> 
> I will probably just clean this bike up and have it be a wall-hanger. I think preserving it as an original artifact is more important that making it usable, especially for someone that is a bit too tall for it like myself. Mike Cates wants ridiculous prices for 1"x3/16" chain, over $50 a foot!!. So I will just clean up the original chain and put it back on the bike, clean the bearings, glue some tires back on the rim after I fix the one broken spoke and call it a day. Someone I know has been in touch with the Pierce museum in Buffalo, NY about this bike so it may end up there someday.




I'm reminded, I restored an 1880's piano that was smoke and heat damaged in a fire wit Acetone. Actually as I were berry, berry poor at the time, my wife's nail polish remover [grin]  It breaks the varnish loose enough to emulsify it without removing it all. it came out unbelievably nice but, not the super shine pianos would have as the layers of varnish got too thin. But as I were berry, berry careful too, using q-tips to dab it over colored, or  gold leaf areas it wasn't harmed.

Disclaimer, if you dare, it's on you. [grin]  But just so's you and peps know, that old time varnish layer above the paint and coloration, nail polish remover, Acetone  can clean the haze and or flatten down the crackle.
On my piano, it reinvigorated the varnish too. Still I'd be bery, bery careful before trying it on a rim like yours, maybe test the inner side 1st to see what happens.


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## filmonger (Apr 12, 2017)

*Updated 13-06-17 .... I'll try and consolidate all numbers to this thread.*

_XXXX Special Man's - No Serial No's ( need to check rear dropout ) Not on BB, Not Lugged, Chained, Nickel fork - ( Cabe owner ) The cabe...Pictured below ( 1890's? )_
55972 Special Man's c1898 - Collected by Dave Toppin
58877 ( Stamped on seat post ) Rear steering Tandem ( dfa242 ) The Cabe
*57365 Special Model 344 Chain driven cushion ( Flat Spring by Crank ) - Shawn - believed to be 1901/2….the cabe*
60292 Racer Man’s - Collected by Dave Toppin
61489 ( stamped on Seat tube )  Maybe a model 513? Sager Seat, Fairbanks Rims, Nickel Fork (gben) The cabe
61758 ( stamped on Seat tube ) Tom ( Tommydale1950) The cabe
63456 ( stamped on Seat tube ) Special Racer - riveted below badge( corbettclassics ) The Cabe
*76088 Men’s Chainless - ( Jeff Powell ) Cushion frame, spring forks (no shackles), New Departure/P&F Corbin coaster brake, Christy saddleBadge: The Geo. N. Pierce Co., Buffalo*
77092 Special Racer - Nickel Plated
*85410 Men's Chainless - Hygienic Cushion frame - No springer fork ( Mikeymike ) the Cabe
86133 Cushion Chain Driven - Thought to be 1901 ( Richard Smith )
87605 Cushion Shaft Drive ( Richard Smith )
96665 Ladies Chainless ( Jeff Powell ) Cushion frame, Spring forks w/shackles, Pierce New Departure coaster brake, Christy saddle
Badge: The Geo. N. Pierce Co., Buffalo
106877 Cushion Shaft Drive ( Richard Smith )
106877 Chainless Men’s - collected by David Toppin - Again not sure if he is referring to Richards bike
135320 Cushion Chain driven model - believed to be a 1903/4? ( Will Cress ) Stamped on Seat tube
135320 Chainless - collected by David Toppin…Not sure if he is referring to Will’s or if this is another Model?
145187 ( Stamped on Seat tube ) Cushion Chain driven model, Shakled nickel spring fork- ( Cabe Owner ) Thought to be 1910*
x1492b1 (Stamped on Dropout ) Chain Driven model - Collared seat tube (Redline1968) The Cabe....odd serial number? Thought to be post 1908
152026 Chain Driven - LuxLow Stamped on Dropout
156523 ( Stamped on dropout ) Thought to be Special Racer - missing Special racer plate - Collared seat post, Buffalo Badge. Kirk Thomas - the cabe ( thought to be orig. purchased in 1914 )
165302 Man's c1900 ….collected by David Toppin
165509 - Model 110 Special Racer ( Carey Williams ) stamped on dropout
165509 Special Racer Man’s ..Collected by David Toppin - not sure if he is referring to Carey’s bike
166682 Model 121. Pierce Cycle Co, Buffalo badge. ( dfa252 ) stamped on dropout

170381 Racer Badge is Pierce Cycle Co., Buffalo ( Jeff Powell )
178873 (stamped on drop out) Frank Kramer Special (twowheelfan) the Cabe
180173 Chain driven , Pace bike with Lap bell - type 4 Buffalo badge ( Gary - Gkeep ) The cabe
185513 ( stamped on drop out ) Tom ( Tommydale1950) The cabe

--------------------------------------------------------------- ( Angola Badged )
_*( in theory when Emblem bought out Pierce and changed badge in 1918 )*_

255073 ( Stamped on BB ) Frank Kramer Special (PKS) Professional Track Racer, Lugged / BSA Chainring, Angola Badged ( Cabe Owner ) The Cabe
256237 Pierce SBBR ( Carlitos ) considered to be a 1922 model
263054 Frank Kramer Special (PKS) Professional Track Racer Model Lugged ( Kccomet ) The Cabe
303434 Frank Kramer Special (PKS ) Lugged / BSA Chainring, Chrome (Nickel?) plated frame ( Dweber ) The Cabe
320717 Frank Kramer Special (PKS) Nickel Frame, Lugged Head ( Cabe Owner ) The Cabe


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## filmonger (Apr 12, 2017)

Though, I have updated the list to include yours....I have not been updating this list as I should and will have to go back through some of the threads to add a few more that have appeared recently. I will try and do it in the next few weeks. I think your 1903ish date is very likely - could be 1902? Lovely bike and thank you for taking the time to go through it and share it with us. I think we will crack the dates and serials soon.


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## gben (Apr 13, 2017)

filmonger said:


> I think your 1903ish date is very likely - could be 1902?  I think we will crack the dates and serials soon.




    filmonger, thank-you for making a project out of this. I would say that it is in it's infancy and has a lot of potential. I would like to say that in dating old Pierce bikes it would be important to date them by comparing their features and parts with old period literature over anything else. The head-badges are unreliable for dating as they are so easily swapped and changed out. Even a lot of a bikes parts can be changed out over the years. On my bike it looks like the front rim or even the entire front wheel was swapped at some point. I would not listen to anything anyone has to say about the subject or their bike either. My father was a dealer for British motorcycles and I have been around them, riding them and researching their history my entire life over half a century. I have looked at countless posts about British motorcycles on internet forums over the last almost 20 years and I can say that 99% of those involved with them are there for their ego or money and those factors motivate their actions and statements much more than any desire to preserve history or find facts. This is why I stress that factory and period literature, period bicycle and other publications are by very far going to be the basis of the best research on Pierce bicycles or any other antique or collector's item or historical project. I will do what I can to help...


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## filmonger (Apr 13, 2017)

https://archive.org/details/smithsonian?and[]=subject:"cycling"

I just like old stuff and the story behind it! I do not consider myself an expert in any way - more like a master of none. LOL.

A chance to touch history..... a chance to marvel.


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## gben (Apr 30, 2017)

I was working on the front hub and took a few photos. On page one of the Pierce serial number thread some old literature from 1897 talks about front hub cones with a 'three point principle", so I am wondering if they are talking about the three holes which some special tool must have fit into to adjust the front bearings. 



 



 

   From 1897:


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## gben (May 2, 2017)

I am pretty sure that this Pierce is from after 1900 because it's hubs do not match the technical drawings in the serial # thread in having "T" spokes. It does match the specification of the Model 513 that is shown in the 1904 catalog though, also put up in the serial# thread. Someday maybe we will have catalogs from all years to look at which will let us really narrow down what years these bikes are from. As it stands the years attached to most of these bikes seem to reflect more what their owner's wish or guess them to be than anything else.


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## filmonger (Nov 3, 2017)

Everything is a work in progress and based on educated speculation - some better than others. LOL


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## gben (Jan 20, 2018)

The last guess I made was that this bike was a model 513, but looking at some newer information in the Pierce Arrow serial# thread it looks like the 123 also. It is still anyone's guess what year this bike is too, but I am guessing it is somewhere right around 1900.


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## gtdohn (Jan 20, 2018)

And the crank set is still backwards


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## gben (Jan 21, 2018)

gtdohn said:


> And the crank set is still backwards




  Actually the cranks are out of the bike right now. I took the bike apart, replaced a spoke in the rear wheel and got it pretty true, cleaned and greased the wheel bearings and will be able to clean up the crank and headset bearings too when the weather warms up a bit here on Lake Erie.


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## hellobuddy (Jan 21, 2018)

very cool bike, the condition is beautiful.
the crank on the left side messes with my vision!!!!


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## gben (Jan 25, 2018)

hellobuddy said:


> very cool bike, the condition is beautiful.
> the crank on the left side messes with my vision!!!!




  One possibility is that people switched the crank and rear wheel around from side to side to get twice the wear out of the sprockets. When they became worn one way switching to the other side would put the wearing surface on the other side of the teeth and a new chain would go well with the switch. This bike does not look like the sprockets are worn that badly, but it gave me that idea and I thought someone else must have thought of it and tried it back in the day...


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## gben (Feb 8, 2018)

My guesswork on dating some years of Pierce bicycles by their serial numbers. Not written in stone but my  best guess based on the few available facts there are in catalogs and the stolen-vehicle reports and averaging available numbers. Just something I did when I was bored.  A rough but fast and easy guide for quickly making a rough guess of the date a Buffalo Pierce was manufactured:


1899 no higher than or ending at 52,000                      

             1900         "            62,000
              1901       "             72,000
             1902         "            82,000
             1903        "             92,000
             1904         "          102,000
             1905         "          112,000
             1906          "         122,000
             1907        "           132,000
             1908         "          142,000
             1909        "           152,000
             1910        "           162,000
             1911        "           172,000
             1912 ending with   182,000
             1913      "             192,000
             1914      "             202,000
             1915      "             212,000
             1916      "             222,000
             1917     "              232,000
             1918      "             242,000

            After 1918 production was switched to Angola New-York by the Emblem company and the numbers of Emblem's with Pierce badges made per year was probably more or less than at the original Buffalo factory.


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