# Early Super Deluxe Survivors



## 60sstuff (Nov 11, 2022)

I recently acquired two early short frame Super Deluxe Survivors that I’ve known about since 2006.
Both these Stingrays were up in the San Francisco Bay area back then and I lost out on the BA Opal Violet S/D in an eBay auction and the M4 Radiant Sky Blue S/D I passed on because I purchased another M4 Sky Blue Deluxe Stingray, plus numerous NOS and mint used parts from the same gentleman’s collection.
Both of these Super Deluxe’s went down to SoCal around 2007, but now they made the trip back up to NorCal and are finally in my collection.
Both bikes are Factory paint, seats, chrome, plus the front and rear tires on both are the born with dated Originals.

I just finished a complete tear down of the Blue M4 for the bearing clean and grease, date code information and a gentle clean.

Here are some photos of this stunning J36-6 Schwinn Super Deluxe.

Obviously this bike wasn’t used much from the look of typical wear points on a bicycle.
The “three point” rub (both top bends on handlebar and top/sides of seat strut (high loop) show very slight rub. These are not from riding, but seem to be on the very top bends as when you flip the bike upside down.
The other area of damage occurs on the outside of pedals, which this bike has very little on the big caps.
The most notable lack of wear are the Original tires. The center seam is still visible on both front and back tires.

I’ll post additional information and photos later on a few significant items pertaining to this Stingray.


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## 60sstuff (Nov 11, 2022)

A few more


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## sworley (Nov 11, 2022)

Simply amazing. Thank you for sharing with us!


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## Rollo (Nov 11, 2022)

Never seen an original SuperD that nice ... congrats ...  😎  👍


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## nick tures (Nov 11, 2022)

Man that’s stunning !!! Congrats on the to bikes !!


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Nov 12, 2022)

60sstuff said:


> A few more
> 
> View attachment 1730090
> 
> ...



Absolutely stunning, where are pics of the Opal? haha


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## indycycling (Nov 12, 2022)

Holy cow Chris - simply the best there!


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## furyus (Nov 12, 2022)

The insane bit is these add to your collection. The Sky Blue is a collection unto itself.


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## jrcarz (Nov 13, 2022)

Amazing Incredible find


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## Monarkman (Nov 13, 2022)

Awesome bicycle!!!! Love that color. Thank you for sharing.


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## 60sstuff (Nov 13, 2022)

furyus said:


> The insane bit is these add to your collection. The Sky Blue is a collection unto itself.



Radiant Sky Blue has a nice deep glow if it hasn’t been faded over time.

Here is a vintage 1965 photo of two boys on Sky Blue Stingrays.
A Deluxe and Super Deluxe with black wall tires.

I have those examples also, both M4.

Another vintage photo of the Smothers Brothers on Super Deluxes.


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## LEA17 (Nov 14, 2022)

The Smothers Brothers - That's a blast from the past for sure.
The bikes,,, well I can't add any comment's greater than what has already been said.
Beautiful!
Regards,
Jack


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## 60sstuff (Nov 15, 2022)

There has been past questions about when the first “Super Deluxe” Stingray was available.
The advertisement in the July ‘64 Schwinn Reporter clarifies this 64 1/2 was defiantly out at the dealers by August of ‘64 and was Not a 1965 Stingray yet.

Several New features were now being offered on this New Stingray bicycle.
1) Chrome Spring Fork.
2) New styled streamlined Saddle with the famous “High Loop” seat strut.
3) New style chain guard on the S/D that was half chrome and half painted.

My featured M4 Sky Blue S/D obviously is a late year build intended for the upcoming ‘65 year but it has 1964 components throughout.
M4 - Rear fork (dropout).
64 - Crank.
Z-64 - Front axle.
11 4 (Nov. 64) - Westwind front tire.
UB**** (4th quarter of 64) - Yellow Oval Slik.
The rear Schwinn tube also has an M4 inked on it.
Late ‘64 and into 1965 the handlebar had Schwinn stamped twice in the center of the knurling.
This Springer has the cone washer/keeper on RH side.

I love the aged/patina of the 58 year old water slide decals on this bike.


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## indycycling (Nov 15, 2022)

Awesome additional info Chris, thanks so much.  I keep hearing people say some of the early SD's and J-33's came with solo polo seats and squareback struts, but this reporter info sure says otherwise. I suspect those parts must have been added by someone along the line. Thanks for the documentation!


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## 60sstuff (Nov 17, 2022)

A discovery was made when I was removing the rear wheel. This late ‘64 S/D had a coaster brake hub (single red band) in it.
When I was removing the RH axle nut it was under considerable pressure from the rear fork until I got out to 4-5/8’’ spread.
This wide spread is what’s needed for the 2 speed Overdrive Blue Band hub to properly fit.
Seems maybe this bike at one time had the New Optional 1965 kick back hub in it. Maybe it came that way New, or dealer installed, who knows?

There is a correct process to widening the rear fork ends as spelled out in the Feb. ‘65 Schwinn Reporter. You just don’t open the rear frame by hand.
I took photos showing the big difference in the rear forks between the Single Red Band and Three Blue Band.
I just happen to have a very nice Original Overdrive wheel in stock. Took it apart, cleaned, re-greased and installed with no issue.


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## LEA17 (Nov 17, 2022)

Hello, 
It appears that the full reporter page isn't visible.  But I'm thinking in addition to spreading the rear forks. The drop out plates need to be realigned to be parallel??
At any rate,  very cool to see this original information.  Many thanks for sharing. 
Regards, 
Jack


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## indycycling (Nov 17, 2022)

LEA17 said:


> Hello,
> It appears that the full reporter page isn't visible.  But I'm thinking in addition to spreading the rear forks. The drop out plates need to be realigned to be parallel??
> At any rate,  very cool to see this original information.  Many thanks for sharing.
> Regards,
> Jack



Jack, agree and looks like the Reporter is indicating the use of a threaded axle and those nuts to cold set the stays wider, but it does say if you just stretch the stays open wider and jamb the wheel in the drop outs won't be aligned properly, causing problems. 

Funny, I just experienced this as I temporarily installed a blue band S2 on my Opal 64 Fairlady while I was rebuilding the original rear S7. It was a very tight fit and I didn't cold set it knowing I'd go back to a single speed. I've since laced up and installed a red band S2 instead with the original spacing.

Chris, what great info once again, thanks for sharing it!


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## 60sstuff (Nov 17, 2022)

LEA17 said:


> Hello,
> It appears that the full reporter page isn't visible.  But I'm thinking in addition to spreading the rear forks. The drop out plates need to be realigned to be parallel??
> At any rate,  very cool to see this original information.  Many thanks for sharing.
> Regards,
> Jack



Here ya go.


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## Tom Carroll (Nov 18, 2022)

That color is just amazing….people have overlooked the blue bikes for a while…that’s an absolute beauty


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## 60sstuff (Nov 20, 2022)

Tom Carroll said:


> That color is just amazing….people have overlooked the blue bikes for a while…that’s an absolute beauty



Hi Tom,

For years I would pay more attention to Lime, Coppertone and Opal Violet, but the Radiant Sky Blue when it’s not faded is right at the top of the early Stingray colors in my opinion.

A few pics of the head badge area on my M4 S/D shows no fade in the color on this bike.


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## vastingray (Nov 20, 2022)

What a gorgeous Super Deluxe J-36 looks like it’s NOS  incredible bike 💙💙


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## 60sstuff (Nov 22, 2022)

The Blue Band 2 speed Overdrive.

First offered for the 1965 Schwinn Stingrays as an option.
This option always came with a front caliper brake. The exception was the Super Deluxe with the springer.

Bendix not only made great functional rear hubs, but they also had cool advertising.


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## Sr505 (Nov 22, 2022)

Top notch as always. Great score Chris!


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## LEA17 (Nov 22, 2022)

Dang, That bike is HOT!!


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## KevinBrick (Nov 23, 2022)

Yes and great info on the wider rear forks on the kick back and that the automatic always came with the front brake on the non super deluxe models 



.. I’ve had people question the front brake on my 68 blue band..


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## 60sstuff (Nov 23, 2022)

KevinBrick said:


> Yes and great info on the wider rear forks on the kick back and that the automatic always came with the front brake on the non super deluxe models View attachment 1737999
> 
> .. I’ve had people question the front brake on my 68 blue band..



Nice Standard! 
What are the two letter code on the LH rear fork?
What color is that front fork?


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## KevinBrick (Nov 23, 2022)

Front fork is same color just didn’t show well in first photo 
Serial is HD78714


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## 60sstuff (Nov 23, 2022)

KevinBrick said:


> Front fork is same color just didn’t show well in first photo
> Serial is HD78714
> 
> View attachment 1738069
> ...



Kevin,
Thank you.
Cool dealer decal, I love those.


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## WillWork4Parts (Nov 23, 2022)

KevinBrick said:


> Front fork is same color just didn’t show well in first photo
> Serial is HD78714
> 
> View attachment 1738069
> ...



I'm also kind of curious if you've found any stamps on the inside of your Overdrive brake arm?? 

I think all I've come up with so far is a couple of "H 8" and one "A 8" believed to have been off of 68 Mini Twins. None of the earlier kickback hubs I've had were marked at all on the inside of the arms.


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## KevinBrick (Nov 23, 2022)

Looks like L 7 on back of the brake arm


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## 60sstuff (Nov 23, 2022)

WillWork4Parts said:


> I'm also kind of curious if you've found any stamps on the inside of your Overdrive brake arm??
> 
> I think all I've come up with so far is a couple of "H 8" and one "A 8" believed to have been off of 68 Mini Twins. None of the earlier kickback hubs I've had were marked at all on the inside of the arms.



Good question WillWork,

I’ve seen the date codes on the back of later year Overdrive hub brake arms. They seem to be on the “Model B” such as the above ‘68.

I have 4 1965 Stingrays with the Blue Band Overdrive and they do not have date codes on the back of that arm.


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## WillWork4Parts (Nov 23, 2022)

60sstuff said:


> Good question WillWork,
> 
> I’ve seen the date codes on the back of later year Overdrive hub brake arms. They seem to be on the “Model B” such as the above ‘68.
> 
> ...



Very good info to know in spotting an add on!


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## KevinBrick (Nov 23, 2022)

Interesting info.. what is the difference between an early blue band and the model B blue band.. Also how does the date code work.. What does L 7 mean..


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## WillWork4Parts (Nov 23, 2022)

KevinBrick said:


> Interesting info.. what is the difference between an early blue band and the model B blue band.. Also how does the date code work.. What does L 7 mean..



I can't remember which color band of the kickbacks it was, but out of the 3, I think I had 2 of them with differently stamped brake arms(besides the model and mount hole differences). There are differently machined clutches too. Spiral vs serrated and bare steel vs black oxide. I wish I had the pictures readily available....maybe one day when I'm in a hub mood, I'll get them out and take pictures again.


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## 60sstuff (Nov 23, 2022)

KevinBrick said:


> Interesting info.. what is the difference between an early blue band and the model B blue band.. Also how does the date code work.. What does L 7 mean..



I don’t know the difference in the two different Blue Bands.

I think the L 7 stands for Nov. 1967.


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## sworley (Nov 24, 2022)

OK, unless you guys are getting kickbacks from Bendix, haha, let’s get back on topic. How’s that Opal coming?!


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## 60sstuff (Nov 24, 2022)

sworley said:


> OK, unless you guys are getting kickbacks from Bendix, haha, let’s get back on topic. How’s that Opal coming?!



Slowly.

The BA Opal is getting close, still cleaning and packing grease in bearings.
Its not as nice as the Sky Blue, but still a shorty Super Deluxe.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.


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## 60sstuff (Nov 25, 2022)

KevinBrick said:


> Looks like L 7 on back of the brake arm
> 
> View attachment 1738113



Hi Kevin,
Question, is your rear rim a Center Stamp or Side Stamp?
Thanks.


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## KevinBrick (Nov 25, 2022)

60sstuff said:


> Hi Kevin,
> Question, is your rear rim a Center Stamp or Side Stamp?
> Thanks.



Center stamp


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## 60sstuff (Nov 25, 2022)

KevinBrick said:


> Center stamp View attachment 1739322



Thank you.
The reason I asked is there is a Blue Band Overdrive model B on eBay that has a side stamped S-2 rim showing the same brake arm as yours.


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## Logan64 (Nov 26, 2022)

I think I know where a bike of that caliber belongs... 

Right next to all the others. Congrats


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## 60sstuff (Nov 28, 2022)

The First “SLIK” Tire.

Lots of New features for the Schwinn Stingray arrived in 1964 1/2.
New Super Deluxe, New Saddle, New Springer and the first SLIK rear tire.

In the August 1964 Schwinn Reporter the announcement was made about the New rear black SLIK tire to be offered from Schwinn on the J36-6 Super Deluxe Stingray.
The article states there’s plans for this New SLIK to be available on two additional models, J38-6 and J33-6.

The very first style of this New SLIK did not have the Yellow Oval with the black letters inside.
The first design of this cool tire is extremely rare. I once owned an Opal Violet (J4, Sept.) J38-6 that I purchased from the Original owner in Reno NV. that is shown in 3 poor quality photos that had one of these very early SLIK tires on it.
There is a raised molded Oval with the word SLIK in the middle as shown with a 3rd 1/4 1964 date code.
Several months later that Famous rear tire would now have the Yellow Oval that most of us are familiar with as seen on my Sky Blue J36-6

I have a couple ad mats advertising this New SLIK tire on the J36.

Note about another SLIK tire. I do not know the reason for this, but around April to June of 1965 there was a rear tire that did not have any SLIK on it. It looked exactly the same (Schwinn Stingray, Nylon, 20 x 2.125 etc.).
I have a near mint, never ridden FA (June ‘65 Violet J38-6) with Original tires including the Carlisle 3-5 rear Slik, but it does not have Slik on it.
I know of another gentleman that has one of these Slik tires on a DA Stingray.

Last, but not least, there was a White Wall Yellow Oval SLIK that came on the early SLIK CHIK Stingrays.


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