# Older Iver Johnson Dating Help Please



## New Mexico Brant (Oct 16, 2022)

I was the successful bidder on this Iver from the Copake auction.  Can anyone please pin down the exact year.  Is the chain ring correct?  Are these Iver pedals?  I have never seen this exact rat trap before.

Many thanks, Brant


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## New Mexico Brant (Oct 16, 2022)

Pedal details:


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## pedal4416 (Oct 16, 2022)

1898 Badge


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## Handyman (Oct 16, 2022)

Hi Brant,  I was watching that Iver at the auction.  As pedal4416 said above, its an 1898 Iver.  That chainring was only used for one year.  It could be a Model 39 Racer, a Model 41 Special Roadster, or a Model 45 Gentleman's Roadster.  Pete in Fitchburg


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## New Mexico Brant (Dec 3, 2022)

First I would like to thank Seth and Mike at Copake for accommodating my travel schedule. Yesterday I made the lovely trip to beautiful Columbia County, NY to retrieve my purchases.  It is amazing to think such rural areas exist so close to New York City.

I am beyond happy with this Iver project from the auction!  The badge alone is true LOVE ! 😍 !  Bliss my friends.

And then the small details that seem Iver specific, I am still processing them all and finally get the “true IVER disciples” on the CABE. 🙏

Help and information will be needed as I am blazing new ground with this one.

The rear hub is both amazing and perplexing.  Marked New Departure with “Iver Johnson Patented.”   Can someone please explain this sleek racer hub paired with the Iver/ND brake retarder mechanism?  I guess it makes partial sense for 1898; has anyone seen this same combination of a racing hub with an early brake system?

Are the stem, and bars an Iver specific specific feature?  I have never encountered any quite like this.  All the components on this bicycle are so stellar!

Now to the bottom bracket; parts are missing!   I definitely need help here!  Please reach out if you have spares to let me finish this bicycle.  The bicycle is missing a bearing race, dust cover, and maybe other bits from the non-drive side.

Thank you for any information and input.  Kindly, Brant.


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## New Mexico Brant (Dec 3, 2022)

Since the photos seemed to have loaded in reverse, my favorite image.


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## New Mexico Brant (Dec 3, 2022)

The hub:


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## New Mexico Brant (Dec 3, 2022)

The sexy as FFREAKY FUkZ pedals.  I wish I could swear a little here because I am so excited!  Sorry Sean @stezell.


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## New Mexico Brant (Dec 3, 2022)

And this strange seat post!  Is this an Iver special morsel?  PLEASE HELP!!


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## New Mexico Brant (Dec 3, 2022)

I can't wait to start striping paint off the bright parts.  Solid nickel is showing through everywhere.


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## dfa242 (Dec 4, 2022)

Nice project - those cool pedals are shown on page 7 of the '98 Iver catalog.


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## DonChristie (Dec 4, 2022)

Congrats on a beautiful acquisition of a very early and rare Iver! You are in good hands with these Iver Gurus! Nice!


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## locomotion (Dec 4, 2022)

those early IJ are really incredible
I also thing that they are a true marvel, everything is unique and so well designed and machined.
looking forward to your progress on your 1897, 
might give me some motivation to work on both my 1896 that have been stored and on the back burner for at least 5 years !!!!


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## New Mexico Brant (Dec 4, 2022)

dfa242 said:


> Nice project - those cool pedals are shown on page 7 of the '98 Iver catalog.
> View attachment 1744818
> 
> View attachment 1744819



Thank you for these images Dean!

Does the catalog show a close up of the left side bottom bracket?   Or does anyone have one they could post an image of this detail?


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## locomotion (Dec 4, 2022)

New Mexico Brant said:


> Thank you for these images Dean!
> 
> Does the catalog show a close up of the left side bottom bracket?   Or does anyone have one they could post an image of this detail?











						1898 Iver Johnson Catalog
					

Thanks to Dean for providing the 1898 Catalog. Feel free to use for reference and repost as necessary.




					www.flickr.com


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## chitown (Dec 4, 2022)

New Mexico Brant said:


> Since the photos seemed to have loaded in reverse, my favorite image.
> 
> View attachment 1744716



I made some T-shirts a few years ago with that badge. 







Lovely bike! Congrats.


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## stezell (Dec 4, 2022)

New Mexico Brant said:


> The sexy as FFREAKY FUkZ pedals.  I wish I could swear a little here because I am so excited!  Sorry Sean @stezell.
> 
> View attachment 1744720
> 
> ...



I'll definitely let you slide on this one buddy, that's one sweet project Brant! I know you'll do it a great justice.


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## Iverider (Dec 6, 2022)

The 1898 Catalog can be found here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/32224799@N02/sets/72157648977658570/


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## ivrjhnsn (Dec 6, 2022)

Dissecting  an 1899 Iver Johnson Crankset | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

There are a couple CABErs inquiring about crank arms for an 1899 Iver Johnson, so here's a thread on what they look like. As well as pictures showing dis-assembly and so on.  I will post more pics as I take the arms further apart.    Questions are welcome, if you have any.      I'm sitting here...




					thecabe.com
				



Here's a post I did . Similar design . Might be able to have some of the parts made at work . I have another 1899 frame . 
I popped the bb cup out. Newer cups fit .
  I'll dis-assemble the complete crank and see what's what .


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## New Mexico Brant (Dec 7, 2022)

ivrjhnsn said:


> Dissecting  an 1899 Iver Johnson Crankset | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
> 
> 
> There are a couple CABErs inquiring about crank arms for an 1899 Iver Johnson, so here's a thread on what they look like. As well as pictures showing dis-assembly and so on.  I will post more pics as I take the arms further apart.    Questions are welcome, if you have any.      I'm sitting here...
> ...




Thanks Scott @ivrjhnsn for posting the images and the link to your Iver bottom bracket thread.  Your thread really help clarify everything so much better.  Jesse found an inner race cup that may do the trick.  Then all I am missing (beside loose bearings which should be easy to get) is this outer race piece that threads onto the crank and has the set screw holes around the outer perimeter.  I would definitely buy one if you can make it.  I was also going to post on the wanted section in case someone has a spare in a drawer.


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## New Mexico Brant (Dec 7, 2022)

Handyman said:


> Hi Brant,  I was watching that Iver at the auction.  As pedal4416 said above, its an 1898 Iver.  That chainring was only used for one year.  It could be a Model 39 Racer, a Model 41 Special Roadster, or a Model 45 Gentleman's Roadster.  Pete in Fitchburg
> 
> View attachment 1713694



Thank you for your input Pete.  I am leaning towards this machine being the Model 40 Special Light Roadster over the the model 41 Special Roadster.  It really is equipped as a hydrid Racer/model 40.  It has the Brown racing saddle, the rear rim has a sleek Morgan & Wright gray ribbed racing tire, but the bars appear to my eye to be the Iver #3.  The addition of the Iver Patent New Departure brake also brings me to this conclusion.

Sadly, at the auction, there were several wheel lots.  Apparently many of the wheels went with the project/barn find bicycles being sold; no one took the time to mate them with their machine.  If you bought one of those lots and there is a black painted rim with a thin profile grey ribbed racing tire I would love to purchase it so it can be returned to the bicycle.


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## locomotion (Dec 8, 2022)

This is what the cups look like on both my 1897. I don't know if they are the same on the 1898. Maybe the pics can help.


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## locomotion (Dec 8, 2022)

locomotion said:


> This is what the cups look like on both my 1897. I don't know if they are the same on the 1898. Maybe the pics can help.
> 
> View attachment 1747208
> 
> ...




I just looked at the 1899 dissection, and my 1897 set-ups look completely different ...... my pictures will be of no use unfortunately, sorry









						Dissecting  an 1899 Iver Johnson Crankset | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

There are a couple CABErs inquiring about crank arms for an 1899 Iver Johnson, so here's a thread on what they look like. As well as pictures showing dis-assembly and so on.  I will post more pics as I take the arms further apart.    Questions are welcome, if you have any.      I'm sitting here...




					thecabe.com


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## locomotion (Dec 8, 2022)

i was reading the 1898 catalogue
mentions that model 39 and model 40 are built the same (other than seat, tires and rims) and both have 7" round cranks

model 41 has squared cranks with *lower half being round*
looks like your bike could be a model 41 Special Roadster based on that

model 45 doesn't mention the shape of the cranks, all models have 7" cranks

but the *main differences I can see between a model 41 and model 45 are the tube diameter and shape*

model 41 has 1 1/8" main tubes with rear 3/4" "D" tubes lower back and 3/4" "D" rear upper
and model 45 has 1 1/4" main tubes with rear 7/8" round tubes lower back and 3/4" round rear upper

Did you measure the tube diameters on your bike?  looks like your rear upper are pretty round, but taking measurements would clear the model questioning

I also noticed that the model 39, 40, 45 41 have barrel hubs, and optional ND hub on the model 40, 41 and 45
would make sense that a racer or light roadster would not have the heavier option of a coaster brake.

but again, parts (seats, tires, hubs and wheels) can all be optional, frame dimensions and tube shapes are set for each models


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## New Mexico Brant (Dec 8, 2022)

locomotion said:


> i was reading the 1898 catalogue
> mentions that model 39 and model 40 are built the same (other than seat, tires and rims) and both have 7" round cranks
> 
> model 41 has squared cranks with *lower half being round*
> ...



Thank you Max for these added details.  Sadly the bicycle is back in Hershey and I am now in Santa Fe; I will need to check when I am back next.  Yes, you are correct, mine does have the square and rounded cranks.  I am excited to check out these features upon my return.


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## ivrjhnsn (Dec 16, 2022)

Here's the 1899 adjustable side . The thread is 3/4"-32 left hand .


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