# Fix It, Junk It, or Sell It ?



## Alex (May 31, 2008)

I have a bike that I'm guessing is pre-1930 simply because it has all-wood rims and 28 inch tires.  It's complete except for rear spokes, spoke nipples and tires.  I cannot find any identifying marks on it the frame, not even a serial number.  The one remaining tire says "28" on it - I assume that's the size.  A couple of odd things about the frame:  The seatstays are detachable - held on by the seat binder bolt at the top and by the rear axle nuts at the bottom. The fork has only holes for the front axle - no slots. There's an "extra part" that looks like a spring-loaded shoe that should press down on the front wheel tread as a brake.  No linkage to this shoe - just the shoe on a vertical shaft that goes up in the fork, and a return spring on the shaft, inside the fork.  The only component that I can find marks on is the rear hub - New Departure Model D.

Frame has some issues, which I can easily fix (I'm a framebuilder) and the mechanical problems I have enough machine shop capability to deal with.  I'm assuming I can find spokes to fit.  But, what about spoke nipples (extra long, about 0.75 overall) and 28" tubeless tires ?  Are they available ?  Lack of tires would be a deal-breaker, but I suppose I could  _make_ spoke nipples if I had to.

With the lack of any ID and the obviously "aftermarket" finish on the bike now, would I be committing any sacreligious acts by sandblasting/repainting/replating ?  My goal would be not to have something of historical value so much as a cool bike to ride.

All thoughts, insights, information, wisdom, advice welcome.  Pics attached.

Thanks - Alex


----------



## pnfkwfl (May 31, 2008)

Spoke nipples are available.  I can get you the 1" nipples used on the wood rims today.  $30 delivered for 50pcs.  The spokes are available in butted and straight.  Be careful with the tension on the nipples.  I try to stay around 50 fp of torque.  Any more and you are asking for catastrophic failure because the wood is so old and brittle.

The tires are available also, Memory Lane is the best place for them.  Last time I purchased them I THINK they were $125 a set plus shipping. 

Sandblast away.  I prefer powder to paint, to each his own.  Plate if your rich powder if not.  

The brake would require a bit more effort.  Original parts are available.  If you have a bit of a creative eye and do not require 95% original then scavenge the British rod brake parts and your all set.

The rest is just like any other bicycle.  

Have fun and let us see the final product when you have finished.

Later,

KW Scott


----------



## 37fleetwood (May 31, 2008)

I would like to see photos a bit farther away from the bike, don't get the display tires if you want to ride it, get pneumatic tires. and finally to answer the question your post header asks, do any of the above except "junk it". if you like it fix it if you don't sell it.
Scott


----------



## imfastareyou (May 31, 2008)

Alex said:


> Frame has some issues, which I can easily fix (I'm a framebuilder) and the mechanical problems I have enough machine shop capability to deal with.  I'm assuming I can find spokes to fit.  But, what about spoke nipples (extra long, about 0.75 overall) and 28" tubeless tires ?  Are they available ?  Lack of tires would be a deal-breaker, but I suppose I could  _make_ spoke nipples if I had to.





what kind of frames do you build?  just curious... 

got a QBP account?  get some vittoria 700x34 cx tubulars for those rims.  the nipples can be had on ebay for $25 shipped for 72, I just built a set of clad over wood wheels with 'em.

and given that you've got a coaster on the rear you could even ditch that front brake.


----------



## Alex (May 31, 2008)

*More Pics*

37 Fleetwood:  No worries - I won't really junk it. I've been toting it around for 30 years in a box, and I'm finally getting around to doing something with it.  The internet makes this sort of thing much easier.  20 years ago I'd have had no idea where to go for info.  I've attached a couple more pics further away.  Hope that helps.  Also, with some aggressive finish removal, I found a serial number in the usual place on the bottom of the BB shell.  C15411.  I think it's also barely visible on the set lug.

Imfastareyou:  I build just about anything anyone wants.  A few shots of recent stuff here:  

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11010241@N04/sets/72157604957417627 

You can see more in my "Other Sets"

Vittoria tubies are an interesting idea, and I'll watch for the spoke nipples on eBay.  You all have inspired me !

Alex


----------



## ejlwheels (May 31, 2008)

what does the other side of the chainring look like?

I have a bike with a maybe identical chainring.


----------



## Alex (May 31, 2008)

eljwheels:

The two faces of the chainring look identical.  On mine, the chainring is threaded onto the crankarm.   The threads are stripped, so that's one thing I need to take care of.

Not quite sure how this was supposed to work with a coaster brake.  Along the way, someone drilled out the arm and ring for a pin to lock the chainring to the crankarm.

Any idea of the vintage of your bike ?

Alex


----------



## Gordon (Jun 1, 2008)

*old bike*

I doubt if the ND model D hub is original to your bike, I think they came along later. Yours might originally have had a model A or perhaps a C.


----------



## imfastareyou (Jun 1, 2008)

the bike must have been fixed originally, I'd guess with the front brake set-up.

nice frames there alex, I like the cargo rack too.  Al tubes?  it looks brazed though. how heavy is it?


----------



## Alex (Jun 1, 2008)

imfastareyou: Interesting that this bike might have been fixed.  I was wondering about that, esp w.r.t. to front brake.

Any clues to how old this bike might be ?  Any sources out there for a fixed rear hub of the right vintage ?

Cargo rack: it's brazed 4130, mostly 0.028 wall.  Didn't weigh it, but it's probably a few pounds.  The customer requirement was to be able to carry a case of beer.  Since then he's told me he's had up to 60 pounds in it.  I'm glad I didn't go any smaller or thinner on the tubing.

Alex


----------



## kunzog (Jun 2, 2008)

I am having "frame problems" with an old Columbia arch frame and need a frame builders insight. The original two piece crank in gone and a modern crank wont fit thru the small crank hanger. I dont want to use a modern 3 piece crank but an considering using a one piece crank if I can get a larger crank hanger brazed in my frame.


----------



## ejlwheels (Jun 2, 2008)

*sprocket*

My sprocket looks like this:





It's a little different from yours.
The bike it came with is a Geneva with 1898 on the badge.
Your handlebars look like from around that time.
Do they have a ring that twists off to adjust them?


----------



## phenolic (Jun 3, 2008)

found your spoke nipples...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290235895580&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019


----------



## Alex (Jun 3, 2008)

kunzog said:


> I am having "frame problems" with an old Columbia arch frame and need a frame builders insight. The original two piece crank in gone and a modern crank wont fit thru the small crank hanger. I dont want to use a modern 3 piece crank but an considering using a one piece crank if I can get a larger crank hanger brazed in my frame.




Kunzog:

It's possible to remove the old bottom bracket shell (crank hanger) and braze in a new one of larger size.  I'd have to machine a new shell to fit a modern one-piece crank and fillet braze it in place.  Not easy or cheap, but all doable.
Alex


----------



## Alex (Jun 3, 2008)

kunzog said:


> I am having "frame problems" with an old Columbia arch frame and need a frame builders insight. The original two piece crank in gone and a modern crank wont fit thru the small crank hanger. I dont want to use a modern 3 piece crank but an considering using a one piece crank if I can get a larger crank hanger brazed in my frame.




Kunzog:

It's possible to remove the old bottom bracket shell (crank hanger) and braze in a new one of larger size.  I'd have to machine a new shell to fit a modern one-piece crank and fillet braze it in place.  Not easy or cheap, but all doable.
Alex


----------



## Alex (Jun 3, 2008)

phenolic said:


> found your spoke nipples...
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290235895580&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019




Thanks - I did a BIN yesterday from the same person !

Alex


----------



## Alex (Jun 3, 2008)

ejlwheels said:


> My sprocket looks like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




ejlwheels: wow - that's amazingly close.  Yours has fewer teeth and the spider arms are more tapered than mine.  Yours looks like the "upscale version" of mine.  I've attached pics of my chainring, the crankarm and the bottom bracket parts.  The BB parts are  pretty unusual (at least compared to modern stuff), so I'm hoping one of you experts will say "aha - for sure that's a XYZ bike" or "gotta be from this range of years."  Each side has one part threaded one way and another part threaded the other way to lock against.  I've also attached a pic of the top of my fork, plus one of the bars and stem and the front brake.  Something's not original in this setup, since I can't figure out what the linkage looked like to press down on the brake shaft.  There's no hole in the stem.   

Finally, on your Geneva, where's the serial number ?  Mine is on the BB shell plus also on the right side of the seat tube lug.


----------



## Alex (Jun 3, 2008)

Pics of fork, bars, stem, brake - again hoping someone can help with:

What is this, when is it from, and how was this brake actuated ?


----------



## 37fleetwood (Jun 3, 2008)

Alex said:


> Thanks - I did a BIN yesterday from the same person !
> 
> Alex




too funny, you do know who sm2501 is don't you? that's Scott McCaskey the owner of the CABE. 
I guess he didn't see this thread or he could have made you a deal through here!
Scott


----------



## Alex (Jun 3, 2008)

37fleetwood said:


> too funny, you do know who sm2501 is don't you? that's Scott McCaskey the owner of the CABE.
> I guess he didn't see this thread or he could have made you a deal through here!
> Scott





Small world - I was wondering about that when I BIN'd them.

In a bit over 48 hours, I've learned more about this bike that I ever thought I'd be able to glean when I bought it at a junk shop in 1973 !  This forum is an awesome resource.

OK, a few more questions:  I think with the help of this forum I've determined that my bike is from around 1900, and it was probably a fixed gear.  It's got the wrong rear hub (ND model D) and the front brake is disabled.  I'm thinking it's be a pretty easy restoration as-is (coaster brake) but it would be much cooler if I could come up with a period rear hub.

Any idea where I can find a hub ? 

Where can I find a picture of how the brake worked ?

And, what about replating.  Were these parts nickel or chrome ? 

Thanks again to all !

Alex


----------



## 37fleetwood (Jun 3, 2008)

chrome plating wasn't common before the late twenties.
Scott


----------



## ejlwheels (Jun 3, 2008)

*frame similarities*

The Geneva seat post camp is similar to yours:





the serial # (12487) is on the bottom racket only:




the steering tube clamp rind is similar:




the stem is similar:



my stem has a ring on the left side that you loosen to adjust the handlebars.  
The ring compresses the bars against jagged teeth that lock it in place (sort of like a New Departure model A brake arm).


----------



## Alex (Jun 4, 2008)

ejlwheels:

Thanks for the great pics.  Clearly my bike is darn close, but some things are not exactly the same as yours.   

Alex


----------

