# Chrome Paramount



## comet (Mar 23, 2021)

The owner says it is a 1962. What is a good offer. Thanks


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## juvela (Mar 23, 2021)

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fittings such as stem, brake levers, rear mech, saddle, etc are clearly later than given date

if you wish to make it all of a piece in terms of date you will be needing to cast about for the period correct bits

no attempt at denigration; just mentioning as something to be aware of    

a bit like purchasing a house which requires work -

there is the cost of the house and then there is the cost of putting everything right...


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## PfishB (Mar 23, 2021)

I bought a '63 P13 Deluxe a few years ago, most was correct except for the brakeset, stem and bars.  No wheels.  In that condition I paid $500 for it, and it took me half a year, probably another $500 and a lot of luck to gather the correct parts together - especially the Titan stem and Maes/Kint bars.  A grail bike so the total was worth it to me, had I paid the seller more it would have edged into not-so-worth-it territory.

In it's current condition it's worth at least what I have in it depending on the buyer (Not planning to sell).   Your specimen appears to only have the correct crankset, the rest is a hodgepodge.  Not sure about the condition of the chrome, pictures can be deceptive on that - headtube looks a bit iffy and that headbadge has seen better days.  Per Juvela It'll take some work and $$ to set it right if that's your intent, something to keep in mind as you move forward.

As purchased:



Restored (wrong brake levers since corrected) :


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Mar 23, 2021)

PfishB said:


> I bought a '63 P13 Deluxe a few years ago, most was correct except for the brakeset, stem and bars.  No wheels.  In that condition I paid $500 for it, and it took me half a year, probably another $500 and a lot of luck to gather the correct parts together - especially the Titan stem and Maes/Kint bars.  A grail bike so the total was worth it to me, had I paid the seller more it would have edged into not-so-worth-it territory.
> 
> In it's current condition it's worth at least what I have in it depending on the buyer (Not planning to sell).   Your specimen appears to only have the correct crankset, the rest is a hodgepodge.  Not sure about the condition of the chrome, pictures can be deceptive on that - headtube looks a bit iffy and that headbadge has seen better days.  Per Juvela It'll take some work and $$ to set it right if that's your intent, something to keep in mind as you move forward.
> 
> ...



What is the serial number?


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## PfishB (Mar 23, 2021)

Out of town so can't check (pics are on Google so I can pull those from anywhere).   I have a provenance report on it from Waterford which confirms the mfg period in 1963.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Mar 23, 2021)

Here is my 1967


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## PfishB (Mar 23, 2021)

Very nice sir!  Gotta love the Chromies...  I just checked BikeIndex (I register all my rides there to prove ownership and in the event of mishap or theft).  P39.

B


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## juvela (Mar 23, 2021)

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cycle could employ some observations from member     @ccdc.1  as he is wildly expert on these     

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Weinmann brake calipers appear too late for date given

correct for 1962 would be this generation -









the enclosed cable anchors also appear too late for the stated date

AFAIK they did not launch until the 1968-69 time

brake centres on frame are huge; note that even with a 750 caliper pad holders must be right at the bottom of the adjustment slot

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it was mentioned above that chainset correct for date

_possible _it may be too late

it was right around this date that the Record model chainset received the webbing between the two lower spider arms and the crank arm; original version lacked this feature

when this change occurred the "dustcaps" on the inner face of the pedal hole disappeared

do not recall the specific year for the change, another member with greater Campag savvy likely will have a specific date...

the hubs are easily checked since the inner faces of the axle locknuts will express a definite year of manufacture -





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## comet (Mar 25, 2021)

Thank you everyone for the responses. The owner wants $2000. I offered $1100 and got a no. I'll try and find out the serial number, maybe it's a later model and more of the parts are correct.


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## comet (Mar 25, 2021)

Here is a picture of the serial number on the bottom bracket. Maybe it's the 621st frame of 1973. No idea about the N. Any thoughts?


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## juvela (Mar 25, 2021)

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sounds overvalued

if shopping, i would keep looking...

faced with one which has been mongrelized a shopper needs to keep in mind the cost of putting it period correct...and the trouble of locating all of the correct bits

while many of the fittings are far too late for seller's '62 date the chainset, for example, is _several_ years too early for a '72/'73 date

keep in mind also that while you can remove rust from the frame and polish the chrome the pits are there for the duration

aftermarket chrome is not only costly but fraught with numerous hazards









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## ccdc.1 (Mar 25, 2021)

comet said:


> Here is a picture of the serial number on the bottom bracket. Maybe it's the 621st frame of 1973. No idea about the N. Any thoughts?
> 
> View attachment 1379225



Been away from the internet for a few days, but when I saw the pics, I was scratching my head a bit...the weird thing was/is the rear derailleur cable stop, being a bolt on clamp versus a brazed on stop, which was more typical of Paramount starting in the late 1950s. Overall, hard to tell much from the photos, but certainly the crankset (and possibly the headset) are from the early 1960s. The bottom bracket pic of some kind of serial number further moves it away from being a Paramount, as that stamping is nothing like any Paramounts of any era. So, with the mixed bag of mainly early/mid 1970s parts, what appear to be late model 700C wheels on a frame designed for 27"/630 wheels, and the lack of any clarity on the make of this frame, the asking price is well above what this would normally return. Although it does look like a decent quality frame, I would venture it is very unlikely to be a Paramount (other than the head badge), so they may have done you a favor in turning down the offer of $1100. My opinion, other opinions may differ....


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## comet (Mar 25, 2021)

ccdc.1 said:


> Been away from the internet for a few days, but when I saw the pics, I was scratching my head a bit...the weird thing was/is the rear derailleur cable stop, being a bolt on clamp versus a brazed on stop, which was more typical of Paramount starting in the late 1950s. Overall, hard to tell much from the photos, but certainly the crankset (and possibly the headset) are from the early 1960s. The bottom bracket pic of some kind of serial number further moves it away from being a Paramount, as that stamping is nothing like any Paramounts of any era. So, with the mixed bag of mainly early/mid 1970s parts, what appear to be late model 700C wheels on a frame designed for 27"/630 wheels, and the lack of any clarity on the make of this frame, the asking price is well above what this would normally return. Although it does look like a decent quality frame, I would venture it is very unlikely to be a Paramount (other than the head badge), so they may have done you a favor in turning down the offer of $1100. My opinion, other opinions may differ....



I've asked the owner to look at the dropout serial number to see if that helps.
The lugs are correct I think, and you can see traces of black paint on the lugs and head badge, but when you look at the bottom bracket it looks like blue paint. Any idea of who may have made it? Thanks.


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## juvela (Mar 25, 2021)

comet said:


> I've asked the owner to look at the dropout serial number to see if that helps.
> Any idea of who may have made it? Thanks.




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readers would need much better imagery for this


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