# Pre War Values



## Freqman1 (Jun 27, 2014)

I know there was a thread recently that discussed the apparent rise in values of better pre war bikes in general but in the past two weeks we have seen a number of pre war Schwinns either for sale or sold. Remember this one from just last November? Asking price was $3800 and it lingered, went to Ebay, and may have ended in a private sale. 


 
Just this week an original jewel tank but missing lights, rack, and crossbar has an asking price of nearly $5k 


 
and just yesterday this '38 Motorbike for $5k 




Just some observations....V/r Shawn


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## Iverider (Jun 27, 2014)

Of course we run into the asking price vs. sold price conundrum. 

The first bike could have sold for more, and the 2nd two possibly less?

Either way...I'll let you guys fight over the high dollar Schwinns


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## Freqman1 (Jun 27, 2014)

Krautwaggen said:


> Of course we run into the asking price vs. sold price conundrum.
> 
> The first bike could have sold for more, and the 2nd two possibly less?
> 
> Either way...I'll let you guys fight over the high dollar Schwinns




I'm guessing all three sold/will sell for less than asking price but then everything remains relative. Given that I'm still seeing about a 25% increase on these since last fall. I'd be interested to hear from some of the gurus--Tim B., Bob U., Mark M., Marty C., ???? on their thoughts. V/r Shawn


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## looneymatthew (Jun 27, 2014)

*basic economics*

its all supply and demand.
at times the demand is high and the supply is low.
they are not making any more .
but it is also timing. right place at the rigt time.

the observation is a good one.
there is definitly a up tick in values across the board due to recent or current trend in collectables.
bikes /motos ect. 

but i think the people that have been doing this for a long time will tell you its nothing new. prices go up and down
if someone likes what they see and want it . they got the money . it will most likely sell for near asking price.

and if some one has some bikes and needs cash quick they may take a bit less than market value.
its all economics.


but i too would like to hear the big 3 or 5s opinions on the topic .
its always interesting to hear others take on trends.


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## militarymonark (Jun 27, 2014)

I can't understand for the life of me why someone would want to pay that much for such a common prewar schwinn. I can't understand why people like those bikes so much.


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## scrubbinrims (Jun 27, 2014)

My opinion is that the supply and demand for Schwinn bicycles (both high), assumptions of value couldn't really be applied to other prewar manufacturers accurately.
Chris


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## markivpedalpusher (Jun 27, 2014)

I completely agree with the economics of supply and demand combined with trends and waves of new collectors entering the hobby. There is a repeating cycle that occurs. When waves of new collectors and or flippers come into the hobby this can create a hyperinflation. And not only with Schwinn but I've seen a trend in Deluxe Huffman's and Shelby's as of late. I do commend sellers for at least putting a price on their item. And the sold price will work itself out with demand.
Sometimes it takes a long period for the prices to normalize. At least what I would consider normal/fair market value. A steady increase in values is normal and good but I wouldn't bank on my bikes growing dramatically in value. With that said if I purchased a bike for $2,000 ten years ago and I want to sell that bike for whatever reason e.g. upgrade, etc. and the current demand is realizing a $4,000 price you better believe I'm going to list that bike for the higher amount. But 9 times out of 10 I'm just happy to get back what I paid or close to it. With my personal collection my goal is to always be as good of care taker as possible and pass the bike on in the same or most times better condition.


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## looneymatthew (Jun 27, 2014)

*I'm not a fan of wine or winers or winos or wine-ing*

Some people drink wine out of a Box.
and some people drink  $100,000.00  bottles of fine vintage
and collectable wine .

That's why they invest in wine cellar ect.
its for the experience. 

Only those who participate in the experience and enjoy it
can comment on there feeling or reasons on why.

Sometimes some things can't be explained. 

Some people dont need to explain why.
they just do.

Its a great feeling. 
If you can enjoy something you are passionate about.

Different strokes for different folks. 

Looney


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## Ozark Flyer (Jun 27, 2014)

Mark was spot on with his supply and demand discussion.  I have often seen this in micro for particular parts on eBay.  Red X Excelsior badges hit a hot spot for a while with prices over $100 and have now settled back down to more typical prices.  Same happened with hanging motobike tanks.  Frenzied demand will drive prices to higher than normal levels but as demand wanes the prices will eventualy return to normal levels.  I too have noticed the motobike spike.  I'll probably curtail my buying for a while until some folks recover from their hot flash.


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## Djshakes (Jun 27, 2014)

Last time I touched on this topic there was so much drama I almost quit the cabe.


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## bikesnbuses (Jun 27, 2014)

djshakes said:


> last time i touched on this topic there was so much drama i almost quit the cabe.




lolz


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## SJ_BIKER (Jun 27, 2014)

*.........................*

it really not difficult at all.

If im the buyer= its worth 500.00

If im the seller=its worth 5000.00 -100000000000.00 

its very simple


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## looneymatthew (Jun 27, 2014)

*Classic*

That sounds about rite.
I like it.






OTE=SJ_BIKER;359500]it really not difficult at all.

If im the buyer= its worth 500.00

If im the seller=its worth 5000.00 -100000000000.00 

its very simple[/QUOTE]


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## cyclingday (Jun 27, 2014)

It's sad to say,, but when I look at a bike, and I'm trying to figure out if the asking price is realistic, I just tally up median prices paid for the components, and then figure that total is at the max end of what the bike should be listed for.
 In the case of this  Autocycle. I'm thinking $4,000 tops, and in the case of this Motorbike. I'm thinking $3,000 tops.
 Now as a buyer, my offer on the Motorbike would be somewhere around $2,500 I don't know if that would get it done, but that is what I would feel comfortable paying for that particular bike.
 Now on the Autocycle, My offer would be right on the $4,000 mark, because that bike is bound to have more competition. It's missing some of its key components, but it offers more possibilities, and can be upgraded down the road as parts and cash become available.
In the end, I think the Autocycle is the better buy of the two.


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## 37fleetwood (Jun 27, 2014)

I think as a hobby, we've succumbed to the philosophy of "if the last one went for $2000, then the next one should go for $3000. it's driven by the guys who like to buy stuff they have no interest in  just to re-sell it. I know it touches on nerves, but these re-sellers, whether it's parts or complete bikes are ruining the hobby for those who love the bikes. one of the by-products is that they make the bikes worth more parted than whole.
do you know how frustrating it is to bid on something on ebay past the normal value only to see it show up a few days later for sale on the CABE here for double what you got outbid for? we are at the mercy of these mercenaries. and as mentioned in Bob's thread, people act like they're the best thing since sliced bread!
look at the example of the blue on blue Autocycle that caused such an uproar a short time ago. the guy who bought it never even wanted it and sold it so quickly after he bought it, he had it basically sold even before he picked it up!


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## SJ_BIKER (Jun 27, 2014)

*....................................*



37fleetwood said:


> I think as a hobby, we've succumbed to the philosophy of "if the last one went for $2000, then the next one should go for $3000. it's driven by the guys who like to buy stuff they have no interest in  just to re-sell it. I know it touches on nerves, but these re-sellers, whether it's parts or complete bikes are ruining the hobby for those who love the bikes. one of the by-products is that they make the bikes worth more parted than whole.
> do you know how frustrating it is to bid on something on ebay past the normal value only to see it show up a few days later for sale on the CABE here for double what you got outbid for? we are at the mercy of these mercenaries. and as mentioned in Bob's thread, people act like they're the best thing since sliced bread!
> look at the example of the blue on blue Autocycle that caused such an uproar a short time ago. the guy who bought it never even wanted it and sold it so quickly after he bought it, he had it basically sold even before he picked it up!




most parted out bikes are schwinns.....id like to see a fleetwood get parted out so i can buy one at a reasobale rate


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## Cory (Jun 28, 2014)

Hello all, I just purchased the Motorbike that is for sale now here on the cabe. The value to me is simply what someone is willing to pay for it at that moment. There is a way to figure out something close to that like what Marty (cyclingday) mentioned with adding up the parts and going from there. As for senior 37fleetwood I need to mention that this bike would not even be available at this time if it was not for me and tripple3 finding it, digging it out of a garage, taking the day off work, and driving for 6 hours to bring it to market. If you call that ruining the hobby then you and me have a gentlemans problem here   Think of all the parts you have bought from resellers, or as you called us mercenaries (wtf) we drive thousands of miles a month searching out parts for you to find out at veterans or ebay to finish your project. So if I by a part or bike to make a profit please don't think less of me I believe it helps the whole hobby and helps support my family. Thanks


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## looneymatthew (Jun 28, 2014)

*cycle truck part out.*

Hey Buddy
Scott
Thanks for selling me that cycle truck kickstand from the prewar cycle truck you parted out earlier in the year.
you really shouldn't be calling the kettle black. like someone mentioned earlier your either part of the problem or part of the solution.  



UOTE=37fleetwood;359628]I think as a hobby, we've succumbed to the philosophy of "if the last one went for $2000, then the next one should go for $3000. it's driven by the guys who like to buy stuff they have no interest in  just to re-sell it. I know it touches on nerves, but these re-sellers, whether it's parts or complete bikes are ruining the hobby for those who love the bikes. one of the by-products is that they make the bikes worth more parted than whole.
do you know how frustrating it is to bid on something on ebay past the normal value only to see it show up a few days later for sale on the CABE here for double what you got outbid for? we are at the mercy of these mercenaries. and as mentioned in Bob's thread, people act like they're the best thing since sliced bread!
look at the example of the blue on blue Autocycle that caused such an uproar a short time ago. the guy who bought it never even wanted it and sold it so quickly after he bought it, he had it basically sold even before he picked it up![/QUOTE]


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## 37fleetwood (Jun 28, 2014)

I think you two are missing the point.
Cory you went and bought the bike and sold it for a decent price, no harm no foul. I don't remember ever buying any parts from you, and do you really think the bikes you so generously go and get to make tons on would never be found? come one really? you're not doing this out of the kindness of your heart and for the good of the hobby, you're doing this for your wallet. just keep in mind that there are those of us who aren't looking to make a buck, and actually love the old bikes the next time you pay a couple hundred and sell for a couple thousand.
 and Matthew, I've never seen you as one of those guys who buys stuff to part out, maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't get that impression.
the main one I had in mind was the guy who out bid me on ebay on a bottlecap Dayton badge and then had it for sale the very same week on the CABE. please don't do me any favours finding stuff on ebay to bring to market, I can find it myself for half the price! I almost died laughing when another guy found what he thought was an NOS torpedo headlight and it turned out to be a reproduction! poor soul only wanted it to put on his dying mothers bike... BS! he wanted to flip it for more money here! that's the same guy who was on the Ballooner site a few years back cursing Jerry Williamson for making the repop pedals because it was cutting into his profits on real ones! as I recal that's when he swore he was leaving the hobby for good! these guys are famous for failing to disclose major issues in the stuff they pedal. these are the guys ruining the hobby
as for the cycle truck, I'm unemployed and bought it for $1000. I showed the thing to about a dozen people before I bought it telling them it seemed like a good deal. I was originally going to keep it but times are hard. I tried to sell it for 3 months for my $1000 back, then I lowered the price to $800. finally when is came down to parting it or eating I had to go with eating. also keep in mind that particular Cycletruck was a house painted beauty to begin with. 
no, the guys I'm referring to are the guys who do this on the grand scale.


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## bikewhorder (Jun 28, 2014)

Hey I have a great idea! Lets try to turn every thread on here into a conversation about the pros and cons of parting out bikes! I know I never get tired of reading peoples opinions on the subject.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Jun 28, 2014)

I think It's funny when I sell stuff on ebay and it pops up for sale on here two weeks later.... 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## bike (Jun 28, 2014)

*I live to buy sell trade ocd ratchet jaw type*

bikes and parts and stuff!
I always need a new fix.


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## tripple3 (Jun 29, 2014)

*Value???*



Freqman1 said:


> I'm guessing all three sold/will sell for less than asking price but then everything remains relative. Given that I'm still seeing about a 25% increase on these since last fall. I'd be interested to hear from some of the gurus--Tim B., Bob U., Mark M., Marty C., ???? on their thoughts. V/r Shawn




I owned 1 for a "Minute" Original 36 Liberty that is awesome. My thoughts are that someone with more $$ to play with than me should have it to make it closer to how it was sold originally. (This bike world we roll in is pretty small.) I sold it to put $$ towards needs and "Better" value to me.  I love pre-war bikes. I have this black 36 Electric that is basically original rebuilt Rider that is personalized by me with some parts I got at a swap from the same guy who bought the Liberty. Nobody will pay big bucks for it so I get to keep it. This friend of mine came over and educated me about Schwinn and ways of production, etc. etc. Valuable info. to me always wanting to learn more. He talked prices of components, what is correct, what is changed. He called me the next day to buy the bike and we will see it in future rides with CC and here on CABE so I think it works out for all of us. I bought this 2004 Honda Shadow Spirit VT1100 for a couple hundred $ more. IT RIDES AWESOME!!! Mark
Enjoy pics.


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## Freqman1 (Jun 29, 2014)

The original intent of this post was simply to get some thoughts on where pre war Schwinn values e.g. trends, fad, is this long term? etc... We've been down the parting/flipping road enough times to know where pretty much everyone stands. Many times we see posts, especially from newcomers, about what something is worth.  While I may agree to a certain extent with a previous post that new people entering the market have driven the prices I see some bikes going to the "regulars" for more money recently and just thought it was interesting.  V/r Shawn


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## rickyd (Jun 29, 2014)

*economy*

my personal belief is twofold, first i think the economy as a whole is recovering allowing more money for hobbies, second there are more people like me with a little spare money grasping for their youth. nothing makes me feel as good as getting on one of my beaters and going for a ride! prewar bikes are what i'm chasing at this time with a few specific ones in particular. had a hobby of some kind most of my adult life cameras, pocketknives, sailboats, etc. it's always seemed i trended toward harder to find more expensive pieces up to a point. rick


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## bikeguy (Jun 29, 2014)

Anything is worth more broken down into the cost of their individual parts. You always get a discount for buying them all at one time. 

Try to buy what you drive to work, part by part, and see if you would be driving it.

and

"first i think the economy as a whole is recovering"  Where you getting your drugs?


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## Freqman1 (Jun 29, 2014)

bikeguy said:


> Anything is worth more broken down into the cost of their individual parts. You always get a discount for buying them all at one time.
> 
> Try to buy what you drive to work, part by part, and see if you would be driving it.
> 
> ...




I would agree that the economy,"as a whole", is recovering. I finally received a pay increase this year after three years of no increases. Also they say that for us service retirees we will see our largest increase in several years so something is happening and someone is buying those bikes? I remember in '09-10 I was buying some fairly significant bikes for a little over half of what they are going for now. Just my perspective. V/r Shawn


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## bikeguy (Jun 29, 2014)

"I finally received a pay increase this year after three years of no increases."

I own a business and pay people what they are worth all the time. If one wants an increase they produce more product, real simple concept. 

Then we must sell those products. 

Right now only the products that people need are selling. So we do not need anyone to produce more. That is the condition the economy is in. Except if you are a govt employee.


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## rickyd (Jun 29, 2014)

*bikeguy*

sorry your life is so dismal. rick


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## Nickinator (Jun 29, 2014)

bikeguy said:


> ...
> 
> Right now only the products that people need are selling. So we do not need anyone to produce more. That is the condition the economy is in. Except if you are a govt employee.




I'm not sure I'd put a retired vet in the same category as a "govt employee"...:eek:

Darcie


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## Freqman1 (Jun 29, 2014)

Sorry got fess up I am both a retired veteran and a federal worker (Department of Army Civilian). I have more that a few friends though who work outside of government and their take is that the economy has improved as well--not saying it is great but seems to be a little better than it was any way. V/r Shawn


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## Strings-n-Spokes (Jun 29, 2014)

I think there was a downturn to the hobby that was multi-faceted.  Not only was the economy a factor but American Pickers did a great disservice to anybody that was in the hobby but did not have deep pockets.  I know Mike is a member and I mean him no offense.  However,  when the show came out the perceived value of every bike more than 20 years old skyrocketed.  A $25 bike at a garage sale was worth $400-$500 almost overnight.  It spawned (that is the correct term) a multitude of new collectors that called themselves 'pickers' ugh I just threw up in my mouth a little thinking about it.  They are profit driven and without any morals or conscience and in some cases maturity.  Not to mention,the guy on American restorations destroying any value in a piece and falsely claiming that he quadrupled it's value.  Dark days, to be sure.

That being said,  the economy is doing better.  A fair amount of beautiful survivors have been showing up lately, not just Schwinns,  and values seem to be going up and up.  The supply and demand observation does not really hold true for this hobby and it's market because the bikes(products) and the customers are respectively highly individualized.  Any pre war bike is likely to be unique to itself with the exception of identical bikes bought for siblings that have been kept together under almost the same conditions for the past 68+ years.

I miss the Cabe before American Pickers but life goes on...


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## Larmo63 (Jun 29, 2014)

I agree whole-heartedly with Cyclingday (Marty.) Tim had a super deluxe for sale here recently for $9700.00 (?)
and it was worth every penny. Guys who buy bikes like the shown incomplete Autocycle will look for the parts to eventually 
make it whole and it could cost them even more than the $9700.00. Excellent, complete, and original paint Schwinns, Dayton
Huffmans, Shelbys, and Elgins will ALWAYS command top dollar. The prices are steadily going up, and that is as it should
be for things that are this cool and obsolete.


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## cyclonecoaster.com (Jun 30, 2014)

*Prewar pricing seems to be on the up steadily ....*

- Prices fluctuate with the times for the most part - when times are bad the common bikes & middle of the road bikes are hit the hardest - 

- The rare & desirable bicycles are always rare & desirable - In bad times big money bikes sell just as easily for top dollar to collectors who still have the money to buy them - good times or bad times - 

Ride Vintage - Frank


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## SirMike1983 (Jun 30, 2014)

Part of the issue with valuation is that with very high dollar, vintage bikes, you're dealing with a very limited sampling for sale in a very limited market. People who are willing to spend $3000 on _any_ bicycle are the rare exception rather than the rule.  The number of bicycles actually worth that much are relatively small in the grand scheme as well, at least compared to the body of vintage bikes as a whole. The result is that you have a limited number of goods changing hands in a very small community of people who often are familiar with each other. The transactions are going to be highly personalized.


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## Djshakes (Jun 30, 2014)

SirMike1983 said:


> Part of the issue with valuation is that with very high dollar, vintage bikes, you're dealing with a very limited sampling for sale in a very limited market. People who are willing to spend $3000 on _any_ bicycle are the rare exception rather than the rule.  The number of bicycles actually worth that much are relatively small in the grand scheme as well, at least compared to the body of vintage bikes as a whole. The result is that you have a limited number of goods changing hands in a very small community of people who often are familiar with each other. The transactions are going to be highly personalized.




Pretty much this.  People see bikes like the cantilever I just sold and there is a perception that they are flying off the shelf. As I have said a million times before, the market for high end bikes is volatile much like or current economy.  I bought that bike to help out of a friend and made a very modest profit (about $500).  I was sweating bullets to find a buyer, not because the bike wasn't worth it, but because how many people are dropping $8-10K on a bike?! I feel the bike was worth $10K all day and would have parted out for $11K range.  I had two interested parties.  

If the bike gods came down and gave me an ultimatum to sell bread and butter schwinn parts and bikes or high end bikes I would say I'm going with the bread and butter.  Sure you get some glory with the high end stuff but demand is thin.  Postwar springer forks and phantom parts will sell all day.


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## videoranger (Jun 30, 2014)

Market timing, sale venue, promotion all help determine the selling price on any given day. I also agree that the more plentiful the supply and availability ( more common bikes) the greater the effects of the overall economy flutuations on bike prices. The top dollar rare and highly desired by those willing to pay top dollar bikes will stiil tend to have more stable prices as long as they are still coming to market. If the supply dries up due to people not selling those tht really want to have one and have the money will spend more. In the long run the prices for the good ones will always trend upward since the supply will always be limited and the demand from folks with $$ isn't going away. I find the original, un-molested, not put together ones to be the most desireable and valuable in the long run. $4K - $10K for a nice prewar hanging tank Schwinn with a Silver Ray and rack seems to be a current market price as reported; a pretty good range, dual headlights, horns etc. and excellent condition are factors. Private party sales by those that do not "report" or care to publicly share this info could be much different, but maybe not. I can remember when $1500 was a realistic market price for some pretty nice deluxe prewar original bikes, and under $500 ones could still be bought from the original owners. Those prices aren't coming back. I think it's a good idea to always hold back a few really nice ones if you can and if you enjoy them. Your heirs will thank you.


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## jracerx426 (Jun 30, 2014)

*Desirability*

Many of you complain about prices of bikes in these forums.  The facts are simple.  A bike is worth what someone is willing to pay.  Some of you have access to many bikes and are willing to pay less.  Others have access to fewer bikes and are wiling to pay more.  Supply and demand matters.  Also, condition and originality matters a lot.  Instead of complaining, capitalize on the current market conditions.


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## Djshakes (Jun 30, 2014)

Nice original paint bikes are worth more than bad restorations.

Vintage bikes can be worth a lot or not much depending on the make and model.

If you want to sell your bike, you have to have a buyer or it won't sell.

Vintage bikes can be ridden but you have to be careful not to damage them or it could hurt the value.


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## looneymatthew (Jun 30, 2014)

*Brilliant*

This is getting good.

That is funny



QUOTE=Djshakes;360308]Nice original paint bikes are worth more than bad restorations.

Vintage bikes can be worth a lot or not much depending on the make and model.

If you want to sell your bike, you have to have a buyer or it won't sell.

Vintage bikes can be ridden but you have to be careful not to damage them or it could hurt the value.

View attachment 158393[/QUOTE]


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## Cory (Jul 1, 2014)

That cracks me up


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## videoranger (Jul 1, 2014)

Wow, that's the same suit I tend to wear when I ride one of my classic bikes. It doesn't make the bike more valuable, but the ladies are impressed.


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## looneymatthew (Jul 1, 2014)

*The Most Interesting Man in The World*

He doesn't always ride vintage 
but when he does he prefers prewar schwinn


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