# Lovell Diamond Truss Frame Roadster: 22" & 24" Comparison



## Wing Your Heel (Feb 4, 2015)

Here are side by side pics of my Lovell Diamond Truss Frame Roadsters, 22" and 24" frame sizes, for comparison.
I find it interesting how the frame size on this style of frame alters a bike's geometry so radically



















Now compare the 1906 Gentlemen's Royal Premier, which has a massive 28" frame


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## Wing Your Heel (Feb 4, 2015)

The Truss Frame Roadster catalogue illustration shows a very much narrower angle, actually hardly a triangle at all, so is presumably the 18" or 20" version.

Does anyone have other catalogue illustrations to share or sell please?






Also, please advise on ages of these two machines:

22" frame: serial number is 182751, under bottom bracket, with this chainwheel and badge









24" frame: serial number is 320812, on top of seat tube, with this chainwheel and badge


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## theyankeedoodler (Feb 4, 2015)

Very nice! Thanks for taking the time for the images & write up.


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## Handyman (Feb 4, 2015)

WOW!!  What a nice pair of Lovell's you have there Wing Your Heel.  Quite interesting seeing a matched set with different frame sizes side by side.  The Lovell bikes have always interested me because of their connection to the Iver Johnson Arms and Cycle Company that was once in my hometown.  If that catalog you have shows a "Lovell Special" racing bike could you post it??  I have one that has practically the same badge as your bikes, even the same color combination, but I have never seen a listing for one in a catalog.  Thanks, Pete in Fitchburg


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## chitown (Feb 4, 2015)

Great bikes and thanks for the rare glimpse of these comparisons side by side.

Are these machines built by Iver? Is the frame construction the same as other Ivers of this age? Is that a know Iver fork? Serial #'s on bottom bracket? Also of note is it's "Iver Johnson *Sporting Goods*" and not *Cycle and Arms* badged. I know little about Iver frame details and would love to see more info on these machines like a date. Also are the headset cups and other hardware Iver built? 

Wing Your Heel, how do these forks compare to your ladies Harley Davidson bike? They look pretty close to me.





Thanks,

Chris


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## Handyman (Feb 4, 2015)

*Lovell Made or Iver Made?*

Hi Chitown,
The Lovell/Iver Johnson connection has always been a little mysterious to me.  About all I can gather is there were some Lovell bicycles made in Portland, ME., and there were some Lovell bicycles built by Iver Johnson in Fitchburg, MA.  I’m not sure how to ID either one.  At some point in time IJ bought the Lovell Company so there is some cross-over here.  Theyankeedoodler and Ivrjhnsn are really the ones that are most knowledgeable here and can set the record straight. Attached is a pic of the Lovell badge on my bike. Pete in Fitchburg


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## UncleFester (Feb 4, 2015)

A big thanks to Wing Your Heel for posting the LD model 1484 catalog page, do you have a date? My mystery bike may have been solved???? The dbl bar headbadge holes are spaced 2 7/8, the same vertical spacing as Lovell Diamond badge. I realize this is not an Iver frame, however I have seen an original teens Lovell Diamond badged bike that was of non Iver origin. It also had a non Iver crank....This is a 22" frame. The fork is a teens Schwinn replacement, as is front mudguard brace. I am not sure if fenders were original to this bike as the rear fender has 2 holes drilled to mount to stay bridge??


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## Wing Your Heel (Feb 4, 2015)

Chris, well spotted! You know the parts on my American bikes better than me 

Here's the 24" LD front forks with HD Girls, and they look the same


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## Wing Your Heel (Feb 4, 2015)

I spotted this LD catalogue on ebay in November 2014, but had no reason to buy it. Just a few weeks after the auction ended I bought the first of the Lovell Diamonds!
I did message the seller to see if he'd taken a photocopy, or knew the year of the catalogue, but no luck on either. 

This is what he said: 
This catalog is a Lovell Diamond Bicycles.  Iver Johnson Sporting goods, Boston Mass.
I do not have a date for this catalog and can not find any date printed.  Some of the bicycle tools pictured have patent dates of 1912 and 1915.  The bicycles and items pictured would place the catalog sometime after 1915. 

These are the scans i copied from his ebay auction


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## Wing Your Heel (Feb 4, 2015)




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## theyankeedoodler (Feb 4, 2015)

Basically, if it doesn't say "Iver Johnson" on the badge it's a Maine built bike (JP LD's –made in Maine. IJ LD's -made in Fitchburg).  The Maine badges, I've seen, have no reference to Maine at all, but say "BOSTON" on the lower left and “JOHN P. LOVELL” on the upper left.  There are at least 2 variations of the Maine LD badges.  With JPL's main office being in Boston still, I guess they wanted to keep that reference.  JPL ads from the time (1895ish-1900) state the bikes were made in the Maine factory.  I’ve seen JPL info dating around 1893-1894 about the future plant in Maine.  I need to find that info again and SAVE it this time.  

Then there are seemingly numerous versions of the IJ LD badges.

As far as the forks go the "triple crown" as it relates between IJ and LD: triple crown used on LD’s (in any form JP or IJ made).  Arch or flat crowns used on IJ’s.  Other mfg’rs used similar double or trip crown fork heads.  Anyhow, there are a few variations of the LD triple crown.  I've seen them all flat.  With 'hat' shape all going the same direction (see above).  In the case on yours, Pete, the top is flat, the two lower ones are inverted w/ each other.

I need to clean up the c1898 Lady's LD and the 190x LD boys I have.  I'll get better images of the details of the bikes then.


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## Wing Your Heel (Feb 4, 2015)

I think I've cracked the LD model number code. I had this reply from Ross, librarian of the wheelmen -
'There is no reference to the truss frame in the 1902 or 03 catalogs.  I then jump to 1909 and I have included that page for reference.'

Observe the LD Truss model number of 984 in the 1909 catalogue illustration below; whereas the other catalogue (previously estimated c1915) has LD Truss model number of 1484; so I now assume that catalogue to be 1914.


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## theyankeedoodler (Feb 4, 2015)

Yessah! [emoji2]
IJ did the same for its direct line thru the late teens or early 20's.  
 The year is the prefix to the model number.


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## Wing Your Heel (Feb 5, 2015)

IJ did the same for its direct line thru the late teens or early 20's. 
The year is the prefix to the model number.

Wally, does this also relate to frame serial numbers?


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## theyankeedoodler (Feb 5, 2015)

Colin:
I'm not that well versed in SN's as I'd liked to be.  Anyhow -from what I've seen on LD SN's is that there is no direct year to SN relation.  Other than probably an assumed SN series was made in 19XX, upward.

I've seen a couple LD's that have alphanumeric SN's also.  Check the Solid & Stolid thread (the few last pages) as I think 1 or 2 have showed up on there.  There was a separate thread that had a LD arch truss that was on ebay.  If I recall that had an alphanumeric SN.

Sorry, not much help beyond adding confusion, I guess 


CHEERS!
Wally


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## Handyman (Feb 5, 2015)

The serial # on my "Lovell Special" is also alphanumeric,  it reads: L4549, on the seat downtube, in the exact spot that an Iver Johnson serial # would be found.  Pete in Fitchburg


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## ivrjhnsn (Feb 7, 2015)

Okay Colin,,

   182751 serial number will put it at circa 1912

   320812  serial number -- circa 1920

  Cool examples. Wish they could have stayed in the States, but glad your sharing them with us


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## ivrjhnsn (Feb 8, 2015)

Here are 2 catalogs. First two pics are from the 1912 , second two pics are 1914. Basically unchanged.

 The bike is an example from the 30's


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