# ID/date/value this old chainless bike



## Wayne Z (Feb 9, 2012)

The person I bought this from thought it was around 1910. Has steel 26" wheels. Pretty good shape except 3 thick layers of paint and a dent in the top tube. Any ideas about what, if anything, should be done with the dent?

Thanks, Wayne


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## jpromo (Feb 9, 2012)

Wow, that thing is a really killer piece of history. I'd judge that 1910 would be pretty close, maybe a little earlier, but I don't know much on these early bicycles. Looks like the tires are even holding air?! Nice find!


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## dave the wave (Feb 9, 2012)

maybe a columbia?


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## ejlwheels (Feb 9, 2012)

I think it is a Columbia Model 50 from 1898 with a bent fork and 26" fenders from a Raleigh and 30's stem and bars and later pedals.


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## Wayne Z (Feb 9, 2012)

Thanks everbody. I made a typo, it has 28" wheels. I did some research and some of the frame and hdw details point to 1898 Pope. The pedals look like they had felt or canvas clamped in them originaly.
 I pulled one of the tires off, and they are beadless and tubeless one piece  Penn-Olimpics that are very dryrotted. The rim is quite flat and I don't think a std 28" tire will work.
 What does one do for replacement tires for one of these?


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## Luckykat32 (Feb 9, 2012)

Great bike...I've always wanted a chainless bike...put me at #1 on your list if you ever decide to sell it.


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## Wayne Z (Feb 9, 2012)

Anybody got any advice on bending the forks back?  They are bent back about 1.25" at the axle.


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## DonChristie (Feb 9, 2012)

My advise - Don't bend the forks! They dont look too bad and you might break them. That bike is amazing! Get a seat and ride it!


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## bud poe (Feb 10, 2012)

I have repaired some damaged forks by carefully heating at the bent area with an oxy-acetalyene torch and a simple fixture on a workbench.  You need to secure the steertube without damaging the threads and slowly apply force (evenly) to the fork ends.  Just go easy with the heat and the force and you should be fine....
I'm interested in the tires for display purposes if they are still in one piece.  Perhaps we could work a trade, I'll fix your forks for the tires?  PM or email me @ budpoe231@gmail.com if you are interested...Great bike and good luck!
Bud


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## ericbaker (Feb 10, 2012)

I would push the fork back out with a fork jack.

the fork and seat cluster look like pope, as do parts of the driveshaft, but i done think the early columbias had the head lugs or certainly not steel wheels. but they do look like straight pull spokes... hmm

Could be a columbia with a lot of modifications, post 1900 at least, as I am certain the earlier ones did not have head lugs and steel clad wheels. bar/stem are later than the bike too.  

The fenders and head lugs look british, but im not sure they ever even made a chainless bike.


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## ericbaker (Feb 10, 2012)

holes for a headtube badge?


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## Andrew Gorman (Feb 10, 2012)

Here's a chart for keying out chainless Columbias:
http://www.firstflightbikes.com/ShopNew/Bike_Histories/Columbia.htm
It looks like a Columbia to me.  The pedals would have had an I-beam shaped piece of rubber sandwiched on each side of the cage.
With the studded hubs/straight pull spokes it should be 19th century.  From the looks of the fork the steere tube looks more bent than the forks- you'll have to take it apart to see..


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## Larmo63 (Feb 10, 2012)

The wheel/28" rim conundrum has been extensively discussed here. Look for old threads on that issue. 

The fenders look wrong, straighten the fork carefully, this is a really rare bike that you can massage and

make into something very special. Good luck!


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## walter branche (Feb 10, 2012)

*gear cover*

gear cover has been reproduced by some wheelmen member , if you go to the site and search ,. wpb


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## Wayne Z (Feb 10, 2012)

ericbaker said:


> holes for a headtube badge?




No holes visible. I haven't checked real close yet to see if they're filled.  I would love to find an appropiate headbadge.


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## Wayne Z (Feb 10, 2012)

Andrew Gorman said:


> Here's a chart for keying out chainless Columbias:
> http://www.firstflightbikes.com/ShopNew/Bike_Histories/Columbia.htm
> It looks like a Columbia to me.  The pedals would have had an I-beam shaped piece of rubber sandwiched on each side of the cage.
> With the studded hubs/straight pull spokes it should be 19th century.  From the looks of the fork the steere tube looks more bent than the forks- you'll have to take it apart to see..




Thanks. According to my interpitations of this site, it's a Pope/ Columbia and the lugged frame was used in 1898 only, and the round pedal crank nut dates it as pre 1900. The rear wheel has the studded hub, front hub has std type spoked hub.


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## Wayne Z (Feb 10, 2012)

Thanks everbody, for the great information and direction you have given me. I was lucky to find this right in my home town. He wanted 400 bux, I wanted to give 200. We settled on 300. Maybe pricy maybe not, but it's worth it to me  even though I found out he picked it from a yard sale for 20 bux!.  I just won a old leather saddle of that period for it, and I am going to try to reproduce and age some cork grips.  I want to restore it to working conditon but keep the old patina.


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## Andrew Gorman (Feb 10, 2012)

For cork grips, amber shellac works well. Another Wheelman makes reportedly nice cork and nickle grips, and the pedaling history museum has a reprint of a Columbia chainless service manual- for 1900 on, but the changes were not that great.


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## comet77 (Feb 11, 2012)

Wayne Z said:


> View attachment 41521Thanks everbody. I made a typo, it has 28" wheels. I did some research and some of the frame and hdw details point to 1898 Pope. The pedals look like they had felt or canvas clamped in them originaly.
> I pulled one of the tires off, and they are beadless and tubeless one piece  Penn-Olimpics that are very dryrotted. The rim is quite flat and I don't think a std 28" tire will work.
> What does one do for replacement tires for one of these?



Hello. I went through the same problem, I ended up buying single tube tires. I found mine on E-Bay for $118.00 a piece and they work well. I did a lot of research with 700mm tires and couldn't find a pair that looked good with the bike, and in most cases wouldn't fit on my rims anyway, some rims have a slight groove in them, so you can get away with700x28 or 35 sew ups. If there is no groove, start saving the money for single tube tires, not the best riding tires, but the best looking. Ron


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## Coaster Brake (Feb 11, 2012)

I'm so jealous of you finding this bike...
If you ever decide to part with it, hit me up!


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## sam (Feb 11, 2012)

The british did make a shaft drive but this is not it

If your BB has the cluch(freewheel)in it I'd advise not to open it.Most likely a ball and spring type--I've seen pics of them  and can't figure out how they ever got them together

Park did made tubing blocks to "roll" out dents.You might try making one from a hardwood(oak) block.Might help some.

the rims might be correct--all steel rims for singletube tires were made only they were a bit heaver than wood so not as popular.Robert Deam tires are really good.


and $300+a good price for what you got


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## Wayne Z (Feb 13, 2012)

sam said:


> The british did make a shaft drive but this is not it
> 
> If your BB has the cluch(freewheel)in it I'd advise not to open it.Most likely a ball and spring type--I've seen pics of them  and can't figure out how they ever got them together
> 
> ...




Hey Thanks!. I tried the hardwood rolling blocks and it worked amazingly well! About 75% of the dent removed before I cracked a block. Wrong grain orientation when I sawed it.  Looks good to me. Maybe a lil filler,maybe not.
 Here's before and after.


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