# Serial number identification reference material



## m_fumich (Apr 7, 2013)

What are you guys using for reference material when identifying bicycle serial numbers? When were serial numbers first used? Where, online or in print, can I find serial number info?

I'm sure someone has published a photographic encyclopedia of vintage bicycles. Where can I find that information?


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## Barry's Bikes (Apr 7, 2013)

m_fumich said:


> What are you guys using for reference material when identifying bicycle serial numbers? When were serial numbers first used? Where, online or in print, can I find serial number info?
> 
> I'm sure someone has published a photographic encyclopedia of vintage bicycles. Where can I find that information?





There a number of serial number data bases, many you can find on line, I suggest you google Schwinn Serial Numbers to start with that will give you a good history on Schwinns. Many of the the manufactures serial numbers are more difficult to decode. There are some good references out there to research, good hunting.
barry


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## m_fumich (Apr 7, 2013)

I will do what research I can I drive OTR and my internet access is through my smart phone. If any of you have any links to said info, I'd appreciate it if you'd post the link here. I'm surprised this site doesn't have a sticky with links such as that.


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## MrColumbia (Apr 8, 2013)

It's doubtful you will find complete serial number data bases for every brand in one place. Here is a link to my Columbia information if that will give you a start on your search.

http://vintagecolumbiabikes.com/id79.html


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## m_fumich (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks MrColumbia. All of the information won't be in one place until someone takes the time to collect it and put it in one place. The collecting may take a while but, fortunately, that kind of info won't need to be updated. It's not like it's going to change. I may be biting off more than I can chew, but I'm going to give it a try. that's exactly the kind of project I like. I love collecting data. If I had the time and a better computer, I would compile a photographic reference database.


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## Freqman1 (Apr 8, 2013)

This will be a challenge. Being a car guy I was spoiled by all the info and lit out there for virtually everything. Bikes are a whole different ballgame. Unlike cars where a serial number may actually tell you something with most bikes the best this will do is tell you when the frame was made-maybe. For instance just about any Schwinn cantilever heavy weight frame between 1949 and 1959 could be a Phantom frame or it could have been a base model frame. Sometimes you will find evidence of the original paint that can narrow it down. I have not seen a reliable source of Shelby #s and there are many others that are lacking as well. Regarding pics; there are a couple of books such as Evolution of the Bicycle Vols I & II. I would caution against using any of these as the last word however as some of the bikes are mis-identified as well as many innacurate restorations. One of your best resources is right here-the Cabe-and its many knowledgeable members--just stay away from Dave and Vince--just kidding guys! V/r Shawn


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## m_fumich (Apr 8, 2013)

Any serial number data base would include foot notes to indicate when a particular number was used in multiple applications. Just like showing that the door for a '66 GMC is also for a '66 Chevy.

As for a photographic encyclopedia, all bikes would be confirmed as to their identity. All original bikes wouldn't be necessary. If a bike as a non original part, such as a springer fork when it never came with a springer fork, a notation would be needed but the photo could be used. If it were online, and it would be, users could challenge the authenticity of a bike. Such a site would use as much catalog information as possible as supporting documentation.


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## Freqman1 (Apr 8, 2013)

m_fumich said:


> .... Such a site would use as much catalog information as possible as supporting documentation.




Therein lies a big problem. For some of these bike there is very little if any documentation e.g. Huffman Model 11 '40 Twin Flex so original bikes are about the only way to document something. Another problem with that is some bikes are so rare only a few original examples exist which don't give a real clear picture of what was actually produced. Once you start digging you'll see what I mean. Lastly, while there are many knowledgeable folks many have never published or documented their research so there is a lot of 'walking around knowledge' but not a whole lot of serious reading out there. V/r Shawn


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## m_fumich (Apr 8, 2013)

If/When I get to start this project, I hope that all that walking around knowledge volunteers itself up for the data base. I know that some of the "proof" will be "I got it for my birthday in the summer of 1961." That works and such notes would be included so any user can choose to trust or not trust the info as they chose. I would not use "Well, I heard from some guy at the swap meet......"


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## GTs58 (Apr 8, 2013)

Bike serial numbers were not used like an auto's VIN number. They were used to somewhat indicate when the bike was made and for future indentification in cases of loss or theft. A dated coded Schwinn serial number does not give you the build date, model or any other information about a particular bike. There is quite a bit of saved information on the Schwinns and unfortunately not so much on the other makes. 

Just one. 
http://schwinncruisers.com/


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## m_fumich (Apr 8, 2013)

Any information at all that could be obtained from the serial number would be helpful. As long as there is a pattern to the numbers, there is/was a list somewhere at some time that explained what those numbers indicated.


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## GTs58 (Apr 8, 2013)

I basically collect, study and restore Schwinns and after much research between me and another forum member, the serial numbers do not really tell you a thing. The Schwinn date coded SN was the conception of a bike and the actual build dates were weeks, months and years later. In 76 Schwinn started stamping the "actual build date" on the headbages. In many cases the *minimum* time span from the dated SN to the actual build date on the headbadge was a month. There have been recorded 1974 Schwinn serial numbers with a badges, paint color, components and decals dating the bike to 1977. These were the higher end road bikes. From my recorded serial number data I have found that any run of the mill Schwinn bike with a serial number recorded in the last week of November ended up as the next years model. I have a May 1961 SN frame that has a mid 1962 cast dated crank. The bike was not altered and it was purchased from the original owner. As I say to all the others, without much luck, the serial number is "just" a serial number and one can possibly get a close idea as to when their bike was produced.  

Another note. Schwinn did not build their bikes in consecutive SN order. I personally believe the date coded SN was stamped on the component before that component was ever used to build a frame. The part was thrown in a parts bin and used in random order.

Here is one serial number site. And nowhere does it say the SN is related to the build date. 
http://www.angelfire.com/rant/allday101/SchwinnCodes1.html


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## m_fumich (Apr 9, 2013)

That is messed up. A numbering system that has no real pattern and little function.

Since serial numbers are mostly useless and little photographic documentation is available, how do you accurately date a bike? Bikes like JC Higgins have the Sears catalog. What about the others?


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## Freqman1 (Apr 9, 2013)

I kinda tried to convey this in my earlier posts. The best way to learn is to follow the forum, ask questions, attend shows, make friends with fellow collectors, and pick the brains of the resident experts. Trust me I was looking for the "easy button" myself when I first got into this. I've come to find out, that besides the forums, there is little detailed info on any bike makes. Hell, even most of the Schwinn books provide no more than a cursory examination of the models offered. I'm a firm believer in the mantra that "knowledge is power" which is why I've bought just about every bicycle reference book I can find. Unfortunately many of these are no more than compilations of catalog pages with very poor images. Better than nothing I suppose but a far cry from helpful im many instances. V/r Shawn


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## m_fumich (Apr 9, 2013)

I'm gonna TRY to gather as much info as I can and organize it for reference. It may take a decade but I get my jollies from collecting and organizing historical data.


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## Freqman1 (Apr 9, 2013)

I applaud your entusiasm. There are many bicycle collectors that have compiled mounds of data the problem is few of them have ever organized _and published_ this data. That would truly help the hobby. I think there are a few reasons for this. First, some don't want to give up their secrets--for whatever reason. Secondly, because there can be some disagreement due to lack of concrete evidence some are reluctant to put forth their findings in the face of bickering and quibbling over what is correct or isn't. Also a lot of guys/gals just aren't writers and it takes a lot of work to put this information into a readable format. I am currently working on a monograph for the Monark Five Bars. Hopefully Scott (CABE owner) can post it as a sticky. My intent is to get what I've learned out there and as discoveries are made or others come forward with more complete or correct info I can revise it--sorta like a wiki but with a little more control. If you look through the forums you wil find other threads such as the Huffman, Iver, and CWC threads that have info you will find no where else to include internet, archives, or libraries. Good luck and I hope you are successful in adding to the body of knowledge. V/r Shawn


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## MrColumbia (Apr 9, 2013)

m_fumich said:


> That is messed up. A numbering system that has no real pattern and little function.
> 
> Since serial numbers are mostly useless and little photographic documentation is available, how do you accurately date a bike? Bikes like JC Higgins have the Sears catalog. What about the others?




I can talk on Columbia/Westfield bikes. The only pattern ever used is having a letter in front of the numerals in the serial number. The letter helped to identify the year. The numbers themselves were simply sequential starting from an often random number like 500 or 100000. Other times the same letter may be used for more than one year in a row. In that case the numbers will pinpoint the year of manufacture for the same letter. The numbers themselves other than order of manufacture of the frames have no other identification value. They do not have anything in them to indicate model or options like an automobile vin would. I suspect that something similar will be true for most or possibly all bicycle manufactures of most eras.   

To add to the Columbia Serial number confusion these letters I mentioned were re-used over the years. Without someone knowledgeable in Westfield Built Bikes doing a visual identification one may mistake a Westfield Built bike from 1948 or 1949 for one made in early 1963. I see it all the time. Ultimately knowledge based on research is the key to identification. If there were a simple chart to tell everything I feel it would take a lot of the fun out of the hobby.

To make it even worse factory serial number charts only cover from 1936 - 1972. Prior to 1936 the letter/year thing usually holds true going back to 1921, but not always. Prior to that the only identifying marks will be on the name badge if you are lucky enough to have one still on the bike. There will be a serial number but will indicate nothing at all. 

In 1896 the main offices of Pope Mfg. burned down and all prior records were lost. If there was any identifying use of these numbers the information went up in smoke. 

Of the thousands of bicycle manufacturers in the US alone I suspect most of their records were lost over the years. You will probably be able to join up the research that has been done on the major manufacturers that survived for decades like Schwinn, Huffman and Columbia along with a few others. I wish you luck in your quest.


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## m_fumich (Apr 9, 2013)

I expect most of my work will be in collecting pictures and isolating characteristics to make a visual identification possible. If one frame was used for multiple models, that would be reflected in the info. I suspect many bikes will be identified simply by matching a bike frame to a picture of a known make and model. Serial number may or may not help identify and isolate a specific make, model, or year. More information is good. Less never helps.


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## GTs58 (Apr 9, 2013)

Many times if not most, it will take the serial number, original paint and decals along with all the bikes components to identify the model and the year. Just a frame will tell you nothing other than what company made the frame, and thats if you have the knowledge of all the different types and makes. Schwinn used the cantilever frame for decades but it went thru many changes over the years and was used for a multitude of different models including the little stingrays.  Have you seen the Findley site? http://www.trfindley.com/pg_schwinn_cats.htm


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## 37fleetwood (Apr 9, 2013)

m_fumich said:


> I expect most of my work will be in collecting pictures and isolating characteristics to make a visual identification possible. If one frame was used for multiple models, that would be reflected in the info. I suspect many bikes will be identified simply by matching a bike frame to a picture of a known make and model. Serial number may or may not help identify and isolate a specific make, model, or year. More information is good. Less never helps.




trust me, the easiest way to go about it is to pick one manufacturer and concentrate on it alone. if you have no preference, pick one of the one's no one is currently working on. once you finish with it pick another and finish it. I've been working on the Huffman stuff for several years now, and we now have a pretty decent database we can use to identify them.
start a thread on the one you choose and put it in the "Bicycle Restoration Tips" section. from there you'll be surprised how many people pitch in and help out. you have to keep it up and current or else it will wither and die.
ebay is a great source for literature. you can often buy it and scan it and post it and then re-list it and get all or at least most of your money back. sometimes you even make a few bucks.


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## m_fumich (Apr 9, 2013)

Scott,

That's pretty much what I plan to do. There's no point in duplicating the work others have already done and are years ahead of me on. Besides, I'd be using those guys work as source material anyway.

Most likely I'll go with JC Higgins and the other Sears bikes. I'm s Craftsman tool collector so I have source material. I know a guy that has every Sears catalog from 1928 through 2010 and I do mean EVERY catalog.

While I'm doing that research, I'll collect all the bike photo's I can and note what they are. Eventually I'll make use of that.


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## Boris (Apr 9, 2013)

Put me down for one complete set of "The Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Every Bicycle and Accessory, Fully Illustrated Collectors Guide", when you get it completed. Any idea on when that might be?


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## vincev (Apr 9, 2013)

I will also take the complete set if Dave is getting one.


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## Archie Sturmer (Apr 13, 2021)

m_fumich said:


> I drive OTR. My internet access is exclusively through my phone. I get home about 3 days a month. Researching on a smart phone is extremely difficult. I can order books all day long but it will be a month before I can get them in my hands. Before I came here and saw a Sturmey Archer hub, all multi speed bikes I knew of used a cassette and de-railer. I still don't know how the kickback works but I'll find out on my own. If you don't like my questions, I'm sure there's and ignore feature here somewhere. In the mean time, you can kiss the darkest, hairiest part of my ass. Excuse me while I go find someplace else to spend my time.



Does that mean there will be no status report on the volume of bike encyclopedias?


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## Freqman1 (Apr 13, 2021)

Yea this guy bailed when he couldn't find the easy button. I don't think he ever got too far--still out on the road somewhere!


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