# Early Truss Frame / Manufacturer?



## Brian (Jun 11, 2020)

Had this posted on General Discussion but hoping to get more replies here.
@Archie Sturmer was kind enough to give his experienced observation which I greatly appreciated.
  Got this truss frame not long ago and would really like to find out the manufacturer. Not much paint left but was blue with red darts. I removed the badge to see if it may have been the original and I do believe it possibly was since there is an oval outline that matches. Two (slightly larger) holes drilled on each side of head tube which made me question badge. They were not drilled quite even on both sides being nearly 1/4” off. Maybe homemade hardware for a light?
No truss rods so maybe teens to early 20’s? Serial number (shown) is stamped toward nearly front side of bottom bracket.
I need some education and comments from the experts here.
Thanks


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## SKPC (Jun 11, 2020)

I'm no expert and not sure anyone is but I straight away look to the chainstays at the BB where they taper vertically.  There are a few makers who must have done this, maybe Miami or Consolodated or Yale or ExcelsiorMC?  The heavy glue layers under the badge may reveal more badge holes when removed.  Is this a screw below?



I suspect the  fork as well as the headset hardware/Badge are to be of another origin.


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## Archie Sturmer (Jun 11, 2020)

The bottom bracket joints appear on the inside to be of a rounded square with a single slit. 
The drill-hole on the front of the (orient-style) fork crown reminds me of Miami.


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## Brian (Jun 11, 2020)

SKPC said:


> I'm no expert and not sure anyone is but I straight away look to the chainstays at the BB where they taper vertically.  There are a few makers who must have done this, maybe Miami or Consolodated or Yale or ExcelsiorMC?  The heavy glue layers under the badge may reveal more badge holes when removed.  Is this a screw below?
> View attachment 1209252
> I suspect the  fork as well as the headset hardware/Badge are to be of another origin.



I did some scraping at badge area and verified that there are no other screws or holes in it. Only paint left that seems to match on fork is the red at crown area. Also has white darts on fork that does not seem to be what should  have likely matched frame darts? Not sure of the color flow possibilities in this era.
Previous owner did give me what was supposed to be original headset hardware but the nut is mostly stripped and will not tighten.


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## szathmarig (Jun 13, 2020)

I think might be Miami too. Look at where the arch bar conact to the down tube, and not the junction with the head tube. It's unusual. This is an unknown year Miami that you can find in the Miami thread.


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## szathmarig (Jun 13, 2020)

Columbia had horizontal head badge screw holes misaligned.


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## szathmarig (Jun 13, 2020)

Trumpet mouth joints look Miami.


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## szathmarig (Jun 13, 2020)




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## szathmarig (Jun 13, 2020)

What ever it is, they are the same make.


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## SKPC (Jun 13, 2020)

Chainstay-to-BB picture please of your Miami?  Are your two c-stays also oval at this junction?


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## szathmarig (Jun 13, 2020)

I sold this bike, so I can't take anymore pictures, only what I have.


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## redline1968 (Jun 13, 2020)

Westfield built with the outline of a Columbia badge on the olive color bike circa 1921+ and the unknown is also a Westfield built .. the fender stays are not thick (beefy and trumpet formed for a  Miami..... I’m saying close to the same as the olive in date...( guess)...


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## SKPC (Jun 13, 2020)

@Mercian   What you think of this frame?  Westfield?


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## redline1968 (Jun 13, 2020)

Also im the owner of that miami arch bar..its a merkel 1920..i could post a clear sbot of the fender bridge for reference later


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## Archie Sturmer (Jun 13, 2020)

@Brian (about the blue bike)
You might do searches for "arch bar" or "truss frame" and see plenty of examples, and opinions and dissenters.
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/truss-frame-bike-i-d-teens-era.162689/ (lots more)
I have a taller 22" truss frame yours (except round stays), and for-now I am just calling it a Snyder-built.


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## Brian (Jun 13, 2020)

szathmarig said:


> View attachment 1210522
> 
> View attachment 1210523
> 
> ...



Yes these two frames do look the same. Hard to tell on the chain stays at BB but from what I can see it appears as though the olive frame is also oval.


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## Brian (Jun 13, 2020)

Archie Sturmer said:


> @Brian (about the blue bike)
> You might do searches for "arch bar" or "truss frame" and see plenty of examples, and opinions and dissenters.
> https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/truss-frame-bike-i-d-teens-era.162689/ (lots more)
> I have a taller 22" truss frame yours (except round stays), and for-now I am just calling it a Snyder-built.



Thank you! I’m going to check further into that thread.


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