# Help identifying a Schwinn tandem



## EXP Jawa (Feb 17, 2012)

OK, so here's my tale.  Last fall, someone I know in a local bike club forwarded to me an email from an aquintance of theirs.  This individual had an old Schwinn tandem bike that he was looking to give away.  He was moving to NC and didn't want to take it.  My friend already had 4 tandems and knew I was into old Schwinns, and thought I'd probably be interested.  

I originally thought that I would just be a run of the mill Twinn, but the guy described it as having drum brakes.  Not _a drum brake_, but drum brakes, so I thought it must be older.  So, my next guess would be a Town & Country out the '50s or so, which I thought would be pretty cool.  

However, when I got there, I found something entirely different.  It _did _have front and rear drums, but it was an entirely different frame than the T&C I'd seen pictures of.  For starters, it was a dual-mens frame, not his/hers or double mixte.  It had drop bars front and rear.  It had three-speed gearing, but through a derailer and freewheel, not an internal hub.  Cottered cranks, "AS & Co" rear chainring, eccentric bottom bracket up front, and was finished in very dark green with faded gold double-piping on all sections of the frame tubes, with matching "Schwinn" script on the front top & rear downtube.  Oh, and it had an early Paramount-style fork (but in a 1-1/8" size), and the whole thing is under 50 pounds.  Along the way, the shifter, derailer, brake levers, bars, and pedals had been replaced.  But he had all of the original parts in a box to go with it.  All told, it was very different from what I expected.  So, of course, I hauled it home; it barely fit in the back of my SUV.

Here are pictures I took the next day in the sunlight:




















As near as I can tell, the bike is most closely related to an Paramount or Superior.  It has, I believe, a fillet-brazed chromoly frame, accounting for why it isn't 80+ lbs, and the components and paint/trim details seem to be consistant with that.  

Other helpful details: the dropouts are forward facing, the bike has what appear to be chainguard mounts for both chains, it has S6 wheels, oh, and the serial number under the BB is X003.  My best guess right now is that it's an early Paramount Tandem.  Or, if Schwinn wasn't using the Paramount name on tandems yet, then this model would become that.  But I've no indication of such a model in the old catalogs.  Extensive internet searches have turned up nothing; I've seen a few similar bikes, but _none _with the same frame.  I think that it was made about 1945, based on trying to reconcile the various details and features I've described.  But that's just a guess at this point.

So, does anyone here have any light that they can shed on this?  thanks.


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## dfa242 (Feb 17, 2012)

Wow, sorry I can't help shed any light on it but what a cool bike!  Perhaps that serial number and lack of similar models available for comparison lean toward a special order piece?  Either way, nice find!


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## greenephantom (Feb 17, 2012)

I'll go through my catalogs and see what turns up.  Excellent score.

Cheers, Geoff


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## ducnut (Feb 17, 2012)

HOLY SMOKES!!!!!! Words can't describe the cool-ness of that thing. I hope that bike is a keeper, for you.


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## EXP Jawa (Feb 17, 2012)

ducnut said:


> I hope that bike is a keeper, for you.




Oh, yeah, absolutely.  I have a hard time letting go of them anyway.  Buy quandry now is if I should try to restore the striping, repaint it and have it restriped, or leave the finish as is.  There are a lot of large chips and scrapes in the paint, otherwise I wouldn't consider repainting it.  But I have a vision of setting it up as a classy touring bike, assuming I find someone that'd ride it with me...


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## ducnut (Feb 17, 2012)

EXP Jawa said:


> Oh, yeah, absolutely.  I have a hard time letting go of them anyway.  Buy quandry now is if I should try to restore the striping, repaint it and have it restriped, or leave the finish as is.  There are a lot of large chips and scrapes in the paint, otherwise I wouldn't consider repainting it.  But I have a vision of setting it up as a classy touring bike, assuming I find someone that'd ride it with me...




I'm of the OCD-type, so I'd have to restore it. Though, the costs might include giving up a kidney. LOL.


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## middleman (Feb 17, 2012)

Cool find!  I know a guy with a 1968 Paramount tandem, that he believes was raced in the Olympics.  The frame on his looks close to yours, but his has different rims, tires, chainrings and brakes.  I think that your badge, along with the dual drums and A S & Co chainring, dates yours to the '50s decade.  I believe that Schwinn also used the head badge you showed on the Town & Country tandems of the '50s.  Schwinn definitely built Paramount racing tandems in the '60s and '70s; yours seems like an early version of those, based on the frame, which matches the '68 Paramount I saw in person.  I also recall that Paramounts have there own series of serial numbers, with only 3 or 4 digits. Have fun with it!


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## Larmo63 (Feb 17, 2012)

*What a BITCHEN bike!!!!!!!!!*

I would say that this is could be late forties, but most likely early fifties.

I had a Superior 3 speed that was very similar. It had a tapered '46 kickstand, so....?  

I would clean it carefully, and NOT repaint it. 

What parts came in the box need to go back on it, again, carefully.

Period saddles, pedals, bars, shifters, and derailleur need to go back on. 

This bike is a museum piece and you are the caretaker of it for now.

Best of luck on it and keep us updated on the rebuild/clean/sort of this lovely historic tandem.


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## EXP Jawa (Feb 17, 2012)

As far as I can tell, the chainring, color and striping all match details shown in the '38 or so catalog for the Superior, but the fork is Paramount in design.  I strongly suspect that the 3-speed freewheel was quickly surpassed with 4 and 5-speeds, so that really ought to narrow down the time window.  This bike has no kickstand, built-in or otherwise, but I don't see how one could mount behind the rear BB without interfering with the timing chain.  I've thought I've come across other examples of the bike before - even with later Paramount tandems.  But when I actually compared pictures side by side it became clear that while similar, they were _not _the same.  There are key differences in the stoker frame, seat stays & apparently wheelbase.  Would Schwinn have made long and short versions of the Paramount tandem?

In the box of parts, now that I've gone through it, I've got the original bars, an adjustable racing stem that I assume was original, what are likely the original pedals (they match what's shown on the prewar Superior) a pair of sprung mattress saddles that I can't see being used with drop bars to well (and are mismatched - they're similar but not the same), and a bunch of Sturmey Archer parts and Raleigh brake levers and calipers.  I didn't find anything that would pass for Schwinn-approved brake levers, derailer or a shifter.  The levers on it are Shimano, the derailer a Shimano Tourney and shifters (only one is used)  are SunRace stem-mount.  Incidentally, the Brooks B15 that's shown on it now resides on my Raleigh Grand Prix; I'd either put the mattress saddles back on or find something appropriate that actually matched.  

I guess how I approach this one depends on what I want to do with it.  Frankly, I'm not one for restoring a museum piece and letting sit on display or what have you.  I've not been here long enough to know how most on this site approach that arguement, but for me, if I can't ride it (and get real use out of), then it's really just taking up space.  So while a full blown restoration might be appropriate for some, keeping it original as possible suitable to others, for me, making it practical and useable is most likely the course I'd take.  I have the feeling that the previous owner felt the same way.   But we'll see.  I wouldn't do anything to it that's irreversable, for one thing, just set up to look period-appropriate and be actually useful.  But it's sort of a moot point at the moment, I'm not going to get to it for a while...


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## Larmo63 (Feb 17, 2012)

Good thing that you have the right perspective. Take your time. 

I would think that finding two matching Brooks period saddles would be right for it

and those are plentiful...................... It IS a real conversation piece.


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## Hb Twinn (Feb 17, 2012)

*Awesome find*

What a great find! Even though it's not my favorite color, i would bring that one home. Restore to what you want and not what you're told. 
BTW, if you want to get rid of it, I have some room left in my garage. LOL


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## Larmo63 (Feb 17, 2012)

Yeah, powdercoat it and Shimano it.


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## ducnut (Feb 18, 2012)

You may try Richard Schwinn at Waterford. IDK what archives he may have, but, it's worth a shot.


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## EXP Jawa (Feb 18, 2012)

Well, I had thought that going to Waterford might be the next step if no one here could narrow it down.  Looks like maybe that's what I'll have to do...


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## hzqw2l (Feb 18, 2012)

*Late 40's*

Looks like a late 40's tandem built for a mens racing team, or special order for some other club.  A look through the 1946 catalog I have shows the tandem with the lady-back frame that was standard on all Town and Country models.  Your's of course has the standard male frame geometry on both front and back.  It looks to have the same braze on mounts for missing chain guards that a standard T&C tandem would have and exhibits the A&S&CO chain ring found on most tandems built before 1950.  It also has holes in the rear deopouts normally used to mount fenders.

It's an odd duck for sure but doubtful that it was a Paramount as there doesn't appear to have any era correct Paramount parts.  A search through my 1941 Parts catalog which includes the new world and paramount models didn't turn up any quote "tandem" parts so I'm not convinced it is any earlier than 1946 at best. The AS&CO chain ring does appear in that catalog as standard on ALL New World models for 1941 but again no mention of tandems.

Cool bike.  hope you locate the parts to make it complete.


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## EXP Jawa (Feb 20, 2012)

Well, I'm not saying it _is _a Paramount, per se.  It isn't badged "Paramount", as later Paramount Tandems were, but rather just as "Tandem".  I'd sooner say that it is, essentially, the forerunner to the Paramount Tandem line.  

It seems to be constructed much the same as the later Paramount Tandems (fillet brazed, chromoly tubing), and the fork _is _a Paramount design; the same basic fork is shown the 1938 catalog as an available part, and is distict from the Superior or New World forks.  The AS&CO chainring appears in '38 as standard on the Superior, and available for Paramount touring models.  Also, from what I've found the X003 format serial number seems to fit in with serials of roughly that same time, but it does seem more likely that this serial is for a unique series, and not intended to fall into the mainstream production numbers.  You're right, it does have mounts for chainguards (but may have never actually had them) and for front and rear fenders.  

At this point, my best guess is similar to your suggestion - that it was a custom order, for a racing tandem built to Paramount/Superior specs rather than, say, Town & Country.  It could be that because of orders like this that Schwinn eventually decided to add a tandem to the Paramount line.  But doesn't lead me any closer to a build date.


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## PCHiggin (Feb 20, 2012)

*Frame Lugs?*

Does it have a lugged frame? I believe all Paramounts did.


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## EXP Jawa (Feb 20, 2012)

No, it doesn't.  All Paramount _singles _had lugged frames.  Paramount _tandems _were fillet brazed, like this is.


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## jgrome (Mar 20, 2013)

*Good idea as to what this is*

I was doing some research on another schwinn tandem project and saw this post.  In my research I discovered that schwinn had plans to build a bike they were going to call a lightweight tourist tandem.  I have pictures of it from a trade magazine.  It was to come in two versions men's men's and men's ladies.  After a bunch of research I could find no evidence that it went into production.  The prototype men's ladies had a curved seat tube like the t and c.  Also had a deraillieur system like a cyclo  twin wire. 

Jeff Groman.  Classic cycle www.classiccycleus.com


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## jgrome (Mar 20, 2013)

*Paramount headbadge*

The paramount tandems did not use the classic headbadge til later.  We have what we believe is the first paramount track tandem built and it is around 1947-48.  We have a team tandem from the 60's that uses the same. Schwinn tandem badge.  Our team tandem from the mid 50's has no badge or drillings but has twin boob tubes connecting the bottom brackets. They are 1" diameter.   Our early bike uses paramount singles gear hubs eats but the later one has the larger paramount tandem specific hubs with the heavy gauge spokes.  They got better in the 12 years between 48 and 60.  Pics are up at the museum section at www.classiccycleus.com.   

Jeff


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## EXP Jawa (Mar 21, 2013)

Interesting.  The frame on that early tandem is different yet from mine.  Much of the detailing is similar, but apart from the obvious frame differences, the head tube on my bike is not lugged at the top and bottom like the one shown on your site.  Aside from that, this bike does have mount brackets for the left and right side chain guards, though the guards themselves are long gone.  I'm pretty sure that no Paramount would've had even the mounts for that.  That might correlate it more with the alleged lightweight tourist tandem that you spoke of, perhaps as a prototype.  The serial number might corroborate that, as it doesn't fit with the postwar numbering scheme as near as I can tell.  What is the serial number on the '48 racing tandem, if you don't mind my asking?


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## Champy (Apr 9, 2013)

*Looks a little like my tandem...part of it anyway.*

My Paramount? Tandem has a similar rear end.  Triple stays with ball ends.  This bike looks mid 70's at first glance but now Im not so sure.  No serial number, no diagonal tube from head tube to drop-outs, no cable braze-ons.  700c rear wheel is a tight fit.  Has a chainguard? brace on rear bb.  I've posted this once before but didnt come up with much info.  Any ideas out there?  Richard Schwinn isnt convinced its a Paramount but the paint sure does look original.


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## vincev (Apr 9, 2013)

My 48  has the same pin striping on the frame.


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## Rivnut (Apr 9, 2013)

Perhaps the X in the serial number is similar to the X you find in lots of one-off car parts and airplanes.  X-perimental.


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