# 1896? Victor



## oldmtrcyc (Aug 12, 2020)

I bought this about a year ago.  I am now getting ready to work on it a bit.  I think it is about 1896?.  Serial number is 95799.  The front rim is solid,  but as curved as a potato chip.  The tire still holds air.  Back rim is a bit wavy, but workable.  Anyone ever have luck either steaming a rim and pressing it at the same time?  I also would like the redo the seat.   Any good pictures of an original,  and what material to use?


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## oldmtrcyc (Aug 12, 2020)




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## oldmtrcyc (Aug 12, 2020)

It is still very dirty.   I sprayed the whole thing with wd40 and letting it soak to loosen it up.  I'll then wash it so that the orig paint that is left shows up better.
View attachment 1246773


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## pelletman (Sep 4, 2020)

You can use 0000 steel or bronze wool and a brass wire brush to help you with cleaning.  I like Waxoyl for coating an original bike


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## Blue Streak (Sep 5, 2020)




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## locomotion (Sep 6, 2020)

I have the exact same bicycle and when I say exact, every features are the same down to the old cork grips. Only difference I can see are the pedals and the badge.
Mine is badge as a VICTORIA. Is yours really badge a VICTOR? I would expect a ladies bike badged as a Victoria. Maybe a replaced badged on your bike!
My bike has the old style Victoria rounded badge, and the oldest patent date on it is 1893.
Did you ever remove your badge, maybe there is another badge shadow under it.
My serial is only 4 digits. 3500

As far as the seat, I would expect something like this ...


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## David Brown (Sep 6, 2020)

Great looking saddle


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## oldmtrcyc (Sep 12, 2020)

locomotion said:


> I have the exact same bicycle and when I say exact, every features are the same down to the old cork grips. Only difference I can see are the pedals and the badge.
> Mine is badge as a VICTORIA. Is yours really badge a VICTOR? I would expect a ladies bike badged as a Victoria. Maybe a replaced badged on your bike!
> My bike has the old style Victoria rounded badge, and the oldest patent date on it is 1893.
> Did you ever remove your badge, maybe there is another badge shadow under it.
> My serial is only 4 digits. 3500



My badge says Victor.  Been on there always, or so it looks.  I could be wrong, but I don't think the Victoria badge came out until late 1890's.    I'll post the serial number and a better pic of badge.


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## locomotion (Sep 12, 2020)

oldmtrcyc said:


> My badge says Victor.  Been on there always, or so it looks.  I could be wrong, but I don't think the Victoria badge came out until late 1890's.    I'll post the serial number and a better pic of badge.




The badge on my bike says Victoria and the latest patent date on the badge is 1893.


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## oldmtrcyc (Sep 13, 2020)

My orig post erroneously had the wrong serial number.  It is Serial no. 3154.


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## oldmtrcyc (Sep 13, 2020)

locomotion said:


> I have the exact same bicycle and when I say exact, every features are the same down to the old cork grips. Only difference I can see are the pedals and the badge.
> Mine is badge as a VICTORIA. Is yours really badge a VICTOR? I would expect a ladies bike badged as a Victoria. Maybe a replaced badged on your bike!
> My bike has the old style Victoria rounded badge, and the oldest patent date on it is 1893.
> Did you ever remove your badge, maybe there is another badge shadow under it.
> My serial is only 4 digits. 3500




Interesting.   Your badge is the earlier style than mine, but your serial number is 346 later than mine.  I can't see evidence of the badge being removed but it is possible!   I looked at the four tiny screws holding it on and am hesitant to booger them up to take a look!


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## locomotion (Sep 14, 2020)

Your badge sure looks like it's been on the bike since new.
Who knows what happened at the factory in 1894!
Maybe it was a badge transition period and they just used whatever they had on hand. 
Pretty cool to locale two identical bikes from the 1800's with serial numbers so close together.

What will you do with your bike? Restore?

I have seemed and pressed wood rims in the past with pretty good success. Won't make it perfect and rideable, but it will look good for display.


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## oldmtrcyc (Sep 15, 2020)

I won't restore it.   I would like to get it rideable,  or at least presentable.  The wheels and seat look bad!  I am going to try soaking the rim and then pressing it flat.  Anyone ever try?  Or other thoughts?  I do have some decent wood trims, but getting the nipples off the spokes is worrisome.


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## ejlwheels (Sep 16, 2020)

I have yet to verify, but I think the "flag" badge begins in 1896.
1894 and 1895 catalogs and details are nearly identical.
I would speculate that the serial numbers started again at zero for 1896
and that the factory would have been able to tell them apart by the badge and possibly other small changes.


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## David Brown (Sep 16, 2020)

For getting the nipples off the spokes use an electric soldering iron. just touch the nipple and heat up then try and loosen . Have done it many times. As for the rims either steam them or what i did was lay the rim on a piece of plywood and cover the rim with towels and pour boiling water over the towels and lots of it . Then clamp the rim down and leave it fo a few weeks . The finger joint might come apart but can be glued back together.


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## oldmtrcyc (Sep 16, 2020)

ejlwheels said:


> I would speculate that the serial numbers started again at zero for 1896
> and that the factory would have been able to tell them apart by the badge and possibly other small changes.




Boy, I don't know about that.  I have not seen that with Victor bikes.


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## ejlwheels (Sep 17, 2020)

If 1894 was the peak year for demand (and presumably production)
_








						Stephen Jendrysik: Victor bicycle rode economic rise, fall
					

The Overman Co. had been a major layer in the bicycle boom that swept the country in the 1890s




					www.masslive.com
				



_
and during the peak Overman produced 80,000 bicycles per year (some branded as Spaulding)
_





						Chicopee Massachusetts Archives - Lost New England
					






					lostnewengland.com
				



_
then it is hard to imagine how a frame made anywhere from 1894 to 1896 
(anytime after the first 9,999 units;  it seems likely that they made 9,999 units prior to 1894--assuming for now that they started at zero with the first safety frame)
could be stamped with a 4 digit serial number, without restarting the sequence or using some method
such an additional letter code or some identifiable design feature on the frame.


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## Kurt S. (Jul 27, 2022)

Came across this post and a couple of folks are questioning the serial numbers of four digits.   The number stamped on the bottom of the tube hung from the bottom of the crank hanger appears to be related in other ways, possible a part number for the tube, but these are not the serial numbers. 

The serial numbers are found at the top of the seat tube, these are very small number stamps, but under the paint you might find yours.  

I also have a Victor badge on mine, and not a Victoria, it does not appear to be a replacement but original to the bicycle. This is consistent with artwork done in 1895, by artist William Bradley.  I am speculating that the badge differentiation may be due to the size of the bicycle, which the Victorias were offered in.  The Victoria badge being a 28" wheel and the 26" wheels badged as Victor.

Love to be able to confirm this about the badges, as I'm still digging into it.


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## locomotion (Jul 28, 2022)

Kurt S. said:


> Came across this post and a couple of folks are questioning the serial numbers of four digits.   The number stamped on the bottom of the tube hung from the bottom of the crank hanger appears to be related in other ways, possible a part number for the tube, but these are not the serial numbers.
> 
> The serial numbers are found at the top of the seat tube, these are very small number stamps, but under the paint you might find yours.
> 
> ...



Part numbers? So two identical bikes with the same part but different numbers stamped on it at the exact same place! To me that is a serial number. No other numbers stamped anywhere on the bike.

As far as wheel size, mine had 24" wheels. Not 28" and not 26".

Do you have any pictures of your bike? Would be useful to see it and see where your serial number is located.


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## Kurt S. (Jul 29, 2022)

locomotion said:


> Part numbers? So two identical bikes with the same part but different numbers stamped on it at the exact same place! To me that is a serial number. No other numbers stamped anywhere on the bike.
> 
> As far as wheel size, mine had 24" wheels. Not 28" and not 26".
> 
> Do you have any pictures of your bike? Would be useful to see it and see where your serial number is located.



Mine has the 4 digit stamp #3208 on the bottom of the tube under the crank but has a serial number #96008 at the top of the seat tube, see photo. Somewhat close in serial numbers to oldmtrcyc bicycle who started this thread, he had posted his as #95799, we're just 209 bicycles away from each other off the assembly line.  I'm hedging that mine is an 1896 as well, based on the crank arm length & the height of the seat tube from the center of the crank, along with a few other details.


(sorry my photos are a bit fuzzy on the close ups-my regular camera I usually use needs repairs)


​


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## Kurt S. (Jul 29, 2022)

_So I have to correct myself in my earlier post.  I had stated that the Victoria badge may be for the larger 28" and the Victor Badge for the smaller 26"._ 

I had flip flopped that around, I should have stated the Victoria badge may have been used on the bicycles with the smaller 26" wheels.  

I have 28" wheels with the "Victor" badge.


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## Kurt S. (Jul 29, 2022)

Anyways, I caught my error when doing up a sheet for my files which will explain to myself how I had arrived at my bicycle being a 1896.
Yellow highlighted = not matching
Dark Green = Matched (without other specification conflicts)

So, there are a few frame sizes & a couple of different wheelbases over a few years that could explain the different stamps on that tube under the crank, if in fact they are component/part stamps.


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## Kurt S. (Jul 31, 2022)

oldmtrcyc; can you confirm for me if yours is a 1896 or 1895?


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## oldmtrcyc (Jul 31, 2022)

Kurt S. said:


> oldmtrcyc; can you confirm for me if yours is a 1896 or 1895?



1895 had a different style badge


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