# Learning Bike ID Roadster, Lightweight, Club



## durkopp (Jun 28, 2015)

Hello, I have a few questions for you all here as I am not to verse in bike ID. One is do the European bike owners use the same terms in establishing names to bikes? My bike is a 49 Durkopp a thin framed thin wheeled bike with fenders. It has some odd parts on it as far as the hub and derailleurs that are rarerare and considered high end for the time. Has dual brakes in the rear, an rod  asised drum and clamp type operated by a single brake lever that looks period correct with the rest of the bike.  All together it has nine speeds. Not sure what to call this bike not much to compare to as the manufacturer made mostly motor bikes and other machinery of the day. The style looks something like Schwinn not the heavy cursers more like thiner ten speed frame with the cruisedual center bars the cruisers have. Thanks for any input on the subject.


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## durkopp (Jun 28, 2015)

Typo, it don't have the cruiser dual bars on the top of the frame. Simple 10 speed thin frame.


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## durkopp (Jun 28, 2015)

http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag50/watchesphotos/Durkopp2_zpsmaurwsgw.jpg


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## T-Mar (Jun 28, 2015)

I believe the Europeans referred to these as Gent's or Gentlemen's bicycles. I'd call it a sports tourist model. It's quite curious to find a Sturmey-Archer hub on it. Being a German brand, I would have expected a Fichtel and Sachs. The rear derailleur is almost certainly not original to the bicycle. The Cyclo Benelux 9 speed conversion kits came out circa 1962 and were very popular throughout the 1960s.


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## durkopp (Jun 28, 2015)

T-Mar said:


> I believe the Europeans referred to these as Gent's or Gentlemen's bicycles. I'd call it a sports tourist model. It's quite curious to find a Sturmey-Archer hub on it. Being a German brand, I would have expected a Fichtel and Sachs. The rear derailleur is almost certainly not original to the bicycle. The Cyclo Benelux 9 speed conversion kits came out circa 1962 and were very popular throughout the 1960s.




Thanks T-Mar, I think the derailleur is a MK 7 from 1957 along with the jockey switch. Not sure what year the rear sproket is. The rear hub as far as that goes I think Archer took interest in Durkopp in the late 40s early 50s I was reading somewere in the partnered for awhile and made some parts for each other as far as I know. Yeah a light touring model makes sence. Trying to figures out what kind of front spocket is on the bike. I have rode one of these with the pins in the arms of the sprocket since I was a kid and remember them coming lose time to time on the ones I had.


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## durkopp (Jun 28, 2015)

durkopp said:


> Thanks T-Mar, I think the derailleur is a MK 7 from 1957 along with the jockey switch. Not sure what year the rear sproket is. The rear hub as far as that goes I think Archer took interest in Durkopp in the late 40s early 50s I was reading somewere in the partnered for awhile and made some parts for each other as far as I know. Yeah a light touring model makes sence. Trying to figures out what kind of front spocket is on the bike. I have rode one of these with the pins in the arms of the sprocket since I was a kid and remember them coming lose time to time on the ones I had.




I looked it up again the name was Ardie not Archer,


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## Goldenrod1 (Jun 28, 2015)

Great bike.  I love to ride these.


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## T-Mar (Jun 28, 2015)

durkopp said:


> ...I think the derailleur is a MK 7 from 1957 along with the jockey switch. Not sure what year the rear sproket is... Trying to figures out what kind of front spocket is on the bike. I have rode one of these with the pins in the arms of the sprocket since I was a kid and remember them coming lose time to time on the ones I had.




Yes, it's a Mk 7 rear deraileur. While they came out in 1957, the Cyclo gear Company continued to manufacture them right through to the end of the company in the late 1960s and they were the derailleur offered in the conversion kits.

I can't identify the brand of the crankset, but generically they are called "cottered cranks" due to the cotter pins used to hold the arms to the spindle. While "cotterless cranks" are technically any style that does not use cotter pins, most people use this term for three piece cranks where the arms are pressed onto the tapered ends of the spindle. The other common type is the "one piece crank", where both arms and the spindle are formed from a single piece of steel. Many modern cranks are "two piece" with the spindle permanently attached to the drive side arm and a pressed on non-drive side arm.


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## durkopp (Jun 28, 2015)




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## durkopp (Jun 28, 2015)




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## durkopp (Jun 28, 2015)

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## durkopp (Jun 28, 2015)

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## durkopp (Jun 28, 2015)

I don't pick the bike up untill Friday and just trying to figure out what I  have. I seen a very similar spocket set from a french manufacturer and they sold two types of arms a fluted set and a reg set, pretty much rounded off the edges and a 2 oz difference in weight. I know the selector above opps the hub, guess the jockey switch opps the rear derailleur. But on the handle bars there is a black selector that runs WHAT? I only have a one gear front spocket and it appears that another don't attach to it wondering were that goes.


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## durkopp (Jun 28, 2015)

I see what they did someone disconnected the jockey switch Andy put something newer on the handlebars.







durkopp said:


> I don't pick the bike up untill Friday and just trying to figure out what I  have. I seen a very similar spocket set from a french manufacturer and they sold two types of arms a fluted set and a reg set, pretty much rounded off the edges and a 2 oz difference in weight. I know the selector above opps the hub, guess the jockey switch opps the rear derailleur. But on the handle bars there is a black selector that runs WHAT? I only have a one gear front spocket and it appears that another don't attach to it wondering were that goes.


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## durkopp (Jun 28, 2015)

I don't pick the bike up untill Friday and just trying to figure out what I  have. I seen a very similar spocket set from a french manufacturer and they sold two types of arms a fluted set and a reg set, pretty much rounded off the edges and a 2 oz difference in weight. I know the selector above opps the hub, guess the jockey switch opps the rear derailleur. But on the handle bars there is a black selector that runs WHAT? I only have a one gear front spocket and it appears that another don't attach to it wondering were that goes.


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## T-Mar (Jun 29, 2015)

durkopp said:


> I don't pick the bike up untill Friday and just trying to figure out what I  have. I seen a very similar spocket set from a french manufacturer and they sold two types of arms a fluted set and a reg set, pretty much rounded off the edges and a 2 oz difference in weight. I know the selector above opps the hub, guess the jockey switch opps the rear derailleur. But on the handle bars there is a black selector that runs WHAT? I only have a one gear front spocket and it appears that another don't attach to it wondering were that goes.




The original Cyclo gear shift lever on the downtube has been disconnected and replaced by a modern thumbshifter on the handlebar to operate the derailleur. I suspect his was done primarily for convenience as the long Cyclo lever would be very awkward to operate on the handlebar, even if the clamp did fit.

The three major French crankset manufacturer were Nervar, Stonglight and TA. The chainring is reminiscent of the old Nervar design but I don't recall seeing that particular spider pattern by any of the French manufacturers, though it is similar to one offered by Williams. Still, I would have been expecting something German, like a Thun. For a German bicycle of this apparent era, it has a lot of English components (saddle, rear hub, derailleur and possibly crankset).


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## durkopp (Jun 29, 2015)

Thanks for the input T-Mar. Yes I looked at Williams and very Similar to a model 1232 I think I seen. The bike has a 1957-58 tag on it. Thinking someone of that era  came over here or ordered the bike or fame and was bikeing over here. Durkopp's theme was the lightness of their frames. I wanted to get it Org as possible and I think the only thing I can do is stick with the era. I don't like the mod shifter on there. Was thinking of getting two handle shifters of that era. I had them before and liked them just don't know if one of those would move my derailleur enough. They came in white and would match the theme of the bike.


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## durkopp (Jun 29, 2015)

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## durkopp (Jun 29, 2015)

Few photos I found







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## T-Mar (Jun 29, 2015)

The bicycle should pre-date Sturmey-Archer twist shifters, as they didn't come out until the very early 1960s. Here's the Williams crank I was thinking of. The three spider arms don't taper and there is an approximately 2" diameter flange where the arm is swaged to the spider. While it is not exactly the same as the  Durkopp's, to me it looks closer than the 1232.


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## durkopp (Jun 29, 2015)

This one in you photo has a re ses were the two join. Hard to see in the Durkopp photo but think its nut and bolted on. Yours looks threaded. Were the middle part size on these 3piece a std size?


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## T-Mar (Jun 30, 2015)

durkopp said:


> This one in you photo has a re ses were the two join. Hard to see in the Durkopp photo but think its nut and bolted on. Yours looks threaded. Were the middle part size on these 3piece a std size?




I don't know what you mean by the "middle part". If you're referring to the spider that the chainring/sprocket bolts onto, then the answer is no, For the three armed spiders there were about 8 major, different bolt circle diameters and about three major, different bolt hole diameters. If you're referring to the spindle that the crankarms mount onto, the answer is still no. There are several different combinations of overall lengths, end lengths, bearing spacing and bearing race diameters. Sometimes it can make it quite challenging to find a replacement spindle and/or cups that work together to provide the correct chain line.


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## durkopp (Jun 30, 2015)

Sorry I don't know all the terms should have explained better. The diagram you shown me seemed like the spider was machined into the chain gear, the center meets flush like each was lathed with a 50 50 reses in the center part the chain gear and the outer part or the spider. Mine looks like they overlap. Yours would be tru as far as being balanced. The threaded question what I was wondering is are the holes in ether the spider or the chain gear threaded instead od have the need for nuts to hold the two together? When I was younger some of my bikes had stripped lose pins and the pedaling was a bit sloppy just hoping this bike will hold together in that area.


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## T-Mar (Jul 1, 2015)

durkopp said:


> Sorry I don't know all the terms should have explained better. The diagram you shown me seemed like the spider was machined into the chain gear, the center meets flush like each was lathed with a 50 50 reses in the center part the chain gear and the outer part or the spider. Mine looks like they overlap. Yours would be tru as far as being balanced. The threaded question what I was wondering is are the holes in ether the spider or the chain gear threaded instead od have the need for nuts to hold the two together? When I was younger some of my bikes had stripped lose pins and the pedaling was a bit sloppy just hoping this bike will hold together in that area.




Chainrings can be mounted to he spider via a nut/bolt combination or just a bolt. The dominant method for steel, cottered, three pin cranksets was just a bolt and that appears to be what is on the Dourkopp. The spider typically has a through hole and the bolt threads into the inner chainring. If there is also outer an outer chainring, it often mounts via a yoke with another (often slightly larger) though hole. The dominant thread size was M7x1. However, if you find that the threads are stripped there should be sufficient material to enlarge the though hole(s) and tap the the inner chainring to a larger size. It's an easy fix and not something that I would worry about.


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## durkopp (Jul 1, 2015)

Thanks for the info. I pick it up Friday and really don't know the size of the bike yet in inches. Didn't have much funds but the bike has some nice parts I could use on another bike and not crazy about the color.


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