# War time oddities - What kinda sprocket?



## yeshoney (Sep 3, 2008)

I know these are war time blackout hubs, here is the real odditiy - there is no stamping on the front hub, however, it is clearly a ND hub.  Now, as for the sprocket - is this what is know as a "kidney bean" sprocket?  What kind of bike did these kind of sprockets come on?  Your help and introspective to my questions is appreciated.

Joe


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## sensor (Sep 3, 2008)

the chainring(sprocket) came from a ccm....as for the front hub my blackouts have the stamping so i cant really say.....


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## AntonyR (Sep 3, 2008)

Can you take a picture of the script on the brake arm? Also, that's not a ND front hub.


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## yeshoney (Sep 4, 2008)

*more pics of hubs*

Thanks for the reply's so far.

Sensor - Not sure about the CCM answer, do you have any pics of a CCMwith this sprocket.  I started to look, but couldn't find one.

Anthony - If the front is not a an ND, it is a darn perfect copy.  It looks exactly like the ND front on my Raodmaster, only not a blackout.

Here are a couple more pics.


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## AntonyR (Sep 4, 2008)

Honestly, take that hub and put it side by side with a New Departure hub. It is so different it's surprising that you say it's a perfect copy. The shell is different, the cones are different, etc. Do it- you'll see what I mean. About the only thing in common is that it's a front hub.


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## SirMike1983 (Sep 4, 2008)

I'm not sure what make that front hub is, but the cones do look different from my '36 ND front hub. Beyond that I'm not sure what you have.


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## Parker (Sep 4, 2008)

Comparison pic


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 4, 2008)

Hi, did you repaint the hubs? they're very shinny looking. the New Departure hubs are a difficult lot as they are not date coded. black hubs were used during and around the second world war. this doesn't necessarily mean that they are war time. I have several New Departure Rear Hubs that are not chromed that are from the '50's I would be curious about the front hub. usually it would be New Departure as well. the fact that it doesn't appear to be makes me wonder what happened. there were only two manufacturers allowed to make bikes during the war and Huffman was one of them and used primarily Morrow hubs. I'm not sure about Columbia. do you have any more info about the wheels? I'll upload the photos of my 1944 Dayton's hubs later and post them.
Scott


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## yeshoney (Sep 4, 2008)

*Bike they came from...*

OK, more info.  The wheels and hubs came from a Ladies bike called a Sterling and has been dated (Not sure how yet, maybe original owner of the bike?) to be from 1944.  The wheels as you can see are a triple step that is not the razor edge and they are not the weak Columbia type edge.  I have a set of those.  So, they are somewhere in between as far as the Triple steps go.  The rims are covered with house paint and appear to have been a deep burgundy underneath as there original color.  The creme paint goes over the nipples so it looks like the wheels were not broken down before they were painted. 

The ND hub I compared this hub to was not an ND as I thought it was, but a West German hub.  There is no manufacturer on the hub.  Only says Made in West Germany.  It has a weak chrome plating but has the same cones and same sharp corner on the inside of the hub.

The shininess of the hubs is do to the fact I cleaned all the grease off and polished them a bit. I took a look at the tires and thought they may help shed some light, maybe, but I do not know.  They are Peerless USA 26 x 2.125, dated UB with 4 dots after the B.  Maybe someone can help with the additional info.

Thanks, Joe


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 4, 2008)

here are the photos of my hubs, I'm guessing your wheels came from an early post war bike made from left over parts. Sterling sounds like foriegn made maybe the CCM connection. did you get the whole bike or just the wheels? I have a mid '40's Dayton with some of it's blackout stuff if you wanted to build a war time. your wheels sound like they would pass, though you should get a ND front. most war time stuff is Lightweight bikes mine is kinda an oddity.
Scott


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## Aeropsycho (Sep 4, 2008)

*He He!!!*

The Sprocket IS COLUMBIA!!! 

The front hub is Eclipse or Morrow I have not been able to find marking on those BUT there is a slight chance.. maybe a Musselman I have a few but not black... 

J A M I E


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## eazywind (Sep 4, 2008)

*Sterling*

Sterling was a columbia badge. So maybe a columbia bike? Marc


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## yeshoney (Sep 4, 2008)

*Hmmmm  Thanks!*

Interesting to know about the Sterling headbadge being under the Columbia umbrella.  I am efforting a picture of what is left of the bike and if/when i get it I will post it.

If anyone else has any ideas or can contribute pictures that would be helpful.

Thanks, Joe


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## RMS37 (Sep 4, 2008)

The front hub with the square shoulders is a Musselman, compare it with an Elgin air-cooled hub. Sterling is one of the pre 1900 independents that was absorbed into the Pope-Columbia-Westfield conglomerate and later used as a badge name on Westfield built bicycles during the balloon years.

Phil


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## militarymonark (Sep 4, 2008)

i have two columbias with steerling badges, one has a mussleman hub and one with a ND, one is war time and the other is prewar. They both have the chainring you have.


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## sensor (Sep 4, 2008)

the ccm sprockets ive see on steves site(check oldy57's posts) although i didnt see any skiplinks though.........i might be able to dig up a skippy picture though...if i do ill post it(or the link)


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## sensor (Sep 4, 2008)

okay.......i dont know how accurate these are but heres a link to the sprocket
http://www.blackbirdsf.org/chainwheels/
and heres one of the ccms(non skip) that oldy57 has...
http://ratrodbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7542&p=77136#p77136
ther than that i cant help


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## sensor (Sep 7, 2008)

well it just so happens that someone posted a bike with that sprocket(skipper even) in the antique bikes section today:eek: 
heres the bike
http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=1813&d=1220809740


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## Adamtinkerer (Sep 11, 2008)

Sterling was one of Westfield's badges, they also reused the name for a late 60s Columbia middleweight. When I first saw that sprocket, I thought Westfield. And they used their own unstamped front hubs, which may explain that front. I have a Monark-built J & R Flyer w/those black ND hubs, front and rear. It appears to be an early postwar bike. Also got a pair of lightweight rims, tan w/a red pinstripe, and 26 x 1 3/8" davis deluxe tires with those same hubs. Don't know what they were from, possibly Elgin. ~Adam


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