# High End Bikes (a small rant)



## 37fleetwood (Dec 20, 2015)

I'm not naming anyone, this is a general purpose rant, and it's not a rant so much as a bit of advice from someone who's been around a while.
I have seen people place wanted ads for various high end bikes, only to see one go by and they don't jump at it. as soon as it has gone they renew their search and bump the old want ad.
I'm going to state the obvious here, if you want an extremely rare bike, and one shows up, make sure your voice is heard and you secure it.
if it goes over your budget, accept that you are not in the same league with the bike and seek something smaller, or accept a very poor quality project with lots of missing parts.
the other and possibly best option is to scour Craigslist and hope to win the lottery, its happened more than once. but to put out a want ad and expect someone is going to offer you a $10,000.00 bike for $2,500.00 is not only a waste of time, it insults the rest of the hobby and the bike you want to find.

when I started my obsession with Huffmans, it was just that. I had one bike and it was very rough, and a very low end model. a 1937 Firestone Fleetwood Supreme showed up on ebay and I sold almost everything and bought it. at that time it didn't matter what it cost, I wanted it and went for it. I got the bike and spent the next few years finding the very rare and expensive parts for it. people thought I was nuts when I paid $250 for the rear reflector, but I had to have it and I was not going to be denied. I also paid dearly for the chain guard. at the time no one had paid $300 for a Firestone guard, well, I did.
these parts are more expensive now, but the bikes are more common, but back then no one had one of these, most people hadn't even heard of them. times change but the philosophy is the same. 
so, here are three rules before you place your want ad:
1 know what your bike goes for
2 save at least double that amount
3 pounce on the next one that comes available

consider this:
1 many people have not spent the time or put in the hours of devotion to know what they need to about the bike they've decided to lust after. if you are that person, the people who have or have knowledge of these rare items won't even consider you when one comes up.
2 many high end bikes go for much more than the going rate because the other guy knows that it isn't going to get by him and makes it happen. always keep in mind, these things go for what they are worth, whether that's $10,000 today and $1,500 tomorrow, or $10,000 today and $15,000 tomorrow, you pay what it takes if you are serious, or you can sit at home and whine that you don't have one, or keep telling yourself like a certain cabe member, "I don't want one of those anyway" which tells you he really really does, but is butt hurt about not being able to seal the deal.
3 a small story about pouncing. there was a very rare Huffman at Copake several years ago. the bike was a bedraggled looking 1938 Super Streamline. at least a dozen people contacted me about what I thought it was worth. I told many of them where I thought it would go, but to the ones I considered serious, I told them that they would have to pay whatever it took. at the same time I had a project 1937 Super Streamline I was selling. I felt like I was shooting myself in the foot telling people that the Copake bike was worth more, but it was. I had gathered more parts, but the Copake was the only original paint bikes I had seen in any condition, and it was only missing a few things, and none of that was painted parts. well my bike sat there like so much junk while everyone waited for this bike at Copake to go to auction. everyone thought mine was over priced, and they'd snatch this bike which was better for less. well the day of the auction came and one Cabe member who will remain nameless, whom I didn't know well, told me and told me the bike was as good as his. I sent him my phone number, and he called after the auction was over. I had already received a call by another anxious Caber who thought maybe something had gone wrong, because his proxy bid was higher than the bike went for, but he hadn't been notified that he'd won. I suggested hopefully that, maybe they took a while to sort everything out and they'd contact him at a later date, which is exactly how it ended up, and the bike is now in his loving protection, and put back to it's best original condition. but back to the pertinent phone call I received that night from the member who told me he was getting the bike. he told me he drove all the way to the auction for this one bike, he waited all night for it to come up, and when it did everyone was eagerly waiting to make it theirs. they rolled the bike out, the auctioneer said, We're starting the bid at $4,000.00. he told me his heart stopped and his mouth fell open. there was a silence in the room for a long moment, then the auctioneer taking the stunned silence as a lack of bidders declared the bike sold to an online bidder. he told me something which was very important to this conversation. he told me he would have bid more, but he was just shocked, and couldn't think clearly and before he had gathered his wits, it was over. do not think you want one, do not think that if one shows up in your price range, decide the next one is yours and then POUNCE!!! 

today Marty owns one of the two 1938 Huffman Super Streamlines known to me, and more importantly, the only original paint Model 1 tank type Super Streamlines. he paid the shockingly outrageous price of $4,000.00 for it and then spent a couple grand more to put it to the level it is now in. I have asked around, and I don't know if I've ever mentioned it, but there are people right now who would give him $10,000 for it, and I doubt he'd sell it, and if this story has taught you anything, and if this bike ever comes available, dont even come to the party if you can't bring a minimum of $15,000, and be prepared to fight for it.

just a reminder of what we're talking about. if you want this, make it happen and don't hesitate:


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## silvertonguedevil (Dec 20, 2015)

I totally agree with you and literally was JUST sitting here thinking about this same thing. There are people on here that are looking for specific parts and have been looking long enough that when I run across that part on ebay or wherever, I shoot them a PM with a link and let them know. I get "that's too much for me" and they continue to just sit there looking for the part. It just seems crazy to me. I guess some people have more patience than I do. If I need a super rare part, I will pay whatever I need to pay to get it in my hands. You don't only not know when you're going to see one again, but you also don't know that you're going to find one for cheaper! If you do, it's all on luck and well...I'm just not lucky I guess. I have overpaid for bikes and parts on multiple occasions BUT, I made sure I got what it was I wanted.


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## 37fleetwood (Dec 20, 2015)

I forgot to finish the story, there's one more tale to tell that's important. in the week or so after the Copake auction, while everyone was laughing at how crazy Marty was, I was contacted by John who bought my sad project for what I had asked, which was less than the Copake bike had gone for, and he also has this bike to this day. from the time these two bikes sold, to today, I don't know of any that have come up for sale in the open market.
so be warned, whether it's an original in very poor shape, or a pieced together project, there are some of these bikes which never show up. if one does, understand how rare the opportunity to snatch it is, and go for it.

take a look boys and girls, this is what $3500 used to get you. I'm going to doubt that if I had this today it would still go that cheap.


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## SirMike1983 (Dec 20, 2015)

Many new people cannot get over how expensive the first tier collectibles are. This is high stakes stuff for many thousands of dollars at that level. That isn't where to begin in old bikes. If you're new, there are high chances of getting a messed up project, a bad restoration, or overpaying. Start more reasonable and get a feel for just what buying and repairing an old bike entails. You're probably going to pay big money no matter what, but the question is whether this is money wisely spent, or else overspent. Also, do not underestimate bicycles with less collector profile. Sometimes the lower value bikes are the better fit for what you want to do with them. But don't be the guy who comes in and says "I have a Specialized Triathlon bike, but I'd like to throw a Blue Bird into my collection." That's like saying "I have a Lexus but what to throw  Stutz Bearcat into may garage too." It's a recipe for bad breaks.


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## 37fleetwood (Dec 20, 2015)

I have often said, investing in old bikes is a fools gamble, but such fools are we.


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## Freqman1 (Dec 20, 2015)

I remember when this one came up and didn't really have to fight anyone over it. But the frame was so damned cool I knew I had to have it. 



 



Spent a lot of time and a little more money and came up with this... V/r Shawn


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## 37fleetwood (Dec 20, 2015)

Freqman1 said:


> I remember when this one came up and didn't really have to fight anyone over it. But the frame was so damned cool I knew I had to have it.
> 
> View attachment 259862




a prime example. when I first saw this bike, it looked like this, and I pursued it at all cost.


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## THE STIG (Dec 20, 2015)

Can't soar with the eagles if your fly'n with the turkeys


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## Joe Buffardi (Dec 20, 2015)

I have seen crazy outrageous collections that are way bigger than the high end collectors scene in a whole and the gentleman that have these collections are not flying with eagles. They are collecting for themselves. They are not on the CABE and they are not specifically antique bicycle collectors. They collect them for the love and the history. The imaginative paint schemes and seamless braze joints at every fused tube of a frame. And the shine of the nitro cellulose laquer gleaming off a 1 of 1 fender that is a prototype of a very important what is now a Schwinn Aerocycle. Its all for love, Americana, memories of an era that was. He buys these bikes to hold onto the memories. He may join the CABE one day. And I can gaurantee that when he does it will change our world.


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## sfhschwinn (Dec 20, 2015)

I cant agree with this assessment more. I have only been collection for 7-8 years now and remember when I started I had a  1975 Stingray single speed. I now have almost a dozen stingrays, a few middle weights and a Phantom- my most expensive bike being my 1968 Mini twin that I converted to a 5 speed with a disc brake that I already had other  stingray collectors telling me its a $3000-4000 bike because I'm the only one they know of with a 5 speed mini twin that used all original 1968 parts except for the disc brake. I know my bikes are not the cup of tea of most collectors on here and the prices are $500 -1000 for a stingray compared to older ballooners like the gorgeous bikes Freqman posted. Still, I have learned to stay in the means of my wallet and just droll over the computer looking at bikes that maybe one day I will own once I'm out of college. 

Stepping up and paying is important- again small parts but I just paid $65 for a roll of NOS coppertone grip tape that I would never see again, $200 for a close to mint super deluxe stingray seat and $85 for one in rough condition and finally my most expensive accessory $480 for a repop Whamo Wheelie Bar in mint condition If you don't step up now, the price will either go up to a level you cant afford or you will never see that part you are looking for again.


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## catfish (Dec 20, 2015)




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## RJWess (Dec 20, 2015)

I am with you Scott. Break out the big boy wallet or go pout in the corner.


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## vincev (Dec 20, 2015)

This is a good thread.What I like about bike collecting is that anyone can enjoy the hobby because there are collectibles at every price range. One doesnt need a $15,000 bike to have a nice collection.Enjoy finding the treasure that is in your price range.Nobody on the Cabe probably has the biggest and best collection in the world. We all have a common interest though ,no matter what price range we fit into.


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## partsguy (Dec 20, 2015)

This is a GREAT thread! People need to put up or shut up!


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## 37fleetwood (Dec 20, 2015)

vincev said:


> This is a good thread.What I like about bike collecting is that anyone can enjoy the hobby because there are collectibles at every price range. One doesnt need a $15,000 bike to have a nice collection.Enjoy finding the treasure that is in your price range.Nobody on the Cabe probably has the biggest and best collection in the world. We all have a common interest though ,no matter what price range we fit into.




agreed, I have had some of the most rare bikes and some of the shoddiest junk, and the best bike is the one you ride and enjoy.
I'd rather ride a Murray Monterey with friends than have all of the top shelf bikes in a climate controlled room.


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## RUDY CONTRATTI (Dec 20, 2015)

WOW  I lost track on this one    Thank GOD it was a small rant


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## Duchess (Dec 20, 2015)

I agree that it is great that there are nice bikes in almost every price range and that some people just need to reconcile their wallet size with their expectations. After all, nobody outside of the bike world would know the difference between a nice $500 ballooner and a $15000 ballooner. They might even think the cheaper one was nicer if it was restored vs. the expensive with original patina. I lucked out in finding my Iver and I paid what I was good with paying, not necessarily what I thought would be a deal or whether I could make money off of it. It just so happened that the value of these older bikes isn't so high and fell right about at what it was worth to me as something to ride and enjoy. I learned with cars long ago not to buy for investment first, but to make sure you really want it and that you can afford it (including maintenance requirements, storage, etc.) so that if you can make money down the line, great, but if not, you get to hang on to something you really like.


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## scooter_trasher (Dec 20, 2015)

I think if I was looking to buy a rare highly valued bike at a bargain,  a forum like this full of people buying & selling bikes & parts for a desired profit, would be the last place on earth I would look, as to worth they are children's toys, and any excessive price of a rare item doe's not reflect said item's value but reflects the value of the ego stroke, if you pay a dollar more for something because there is only one instead of 7 million, the extra dollar is to have something someone else doesn't have, hence ego stroke, one shouldn't get insulted and go off on a rant because someone else holds something at a lesser value, because to most of the world, they are just old children's toys and the only value they hold comes from your own desire to posses them, be happy the billionaires like Picasso & Warhol, Diamonds & jewels, or you would be outside looking in, don't loose your sense of humor they are only  bicycles


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## vincev (Dec 20, 2015)

37fleetwood said:


> agreed, I have had some of the most rare bikes and some of the shoddiest junk, and the best bike is the one you ride and enjoy.
> I'd rather ride a Murray Monterey with friends than have all of the top shelf bikes in a climate controlled room.




OK,I draw the line Scott ! A Murray Monterey?LOL,Just kiddin',I know what ya mean.......Mercury Monterey...still laughing.


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## island schwinn (Dec 20, 2015)

I posted this on my Roadmaster thread,and it pretty much sums it up for me.

being of modest means and missing out on the finer bikes in this hobby doesn't always mean you go without.my collection pales in comparison to most on here,but every bike has a story of integrity and honor attached to it.


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## Sped Man (Dec 20, 2015)

I have heard these words spoken before. Typically from someone trying to get top dollar for something they have for sale. When it is their turn to buy something they expect bargain basement prices.


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## bikewhorder (Dec 20, 2015)

scooter_trasher said:


> I think if I was looking to buy a rare highly valued bike at a bargain,  a forum like this full of people buying & selling bikes & parts for a desired profit, would be the last place on earth I would look,




Whatever, I've found some good deals outside of the Cabe but all the really special bikes I own came from fellow collectors and were priced at less than they would have probably sold for on the open market.


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## Boris (Dec 20, 2015)

I buys what I likes within a very limited budget. That usually means buying them rusty and crusty, but that's OK, I just like bringing them back to life. Somehow though, no matter how cheap they are to begin with, I always end up getting in deeper than I intended.


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## scooter_trasher (Dec 20, 2015)

bikewhorder said:


> Whatever, I've found some good deals outside of the Cabe but all the really special bikes I own came from fellow collectors and were priced at less than they would have probably sold for on the open market.




The last time I looked at the F/S section, this was the open market, with guys leaving plenty of wiggle room on their prices  and reducing prices when an item doesn't sell, maybe they are trying to make up for the gold member discount you enjoy, but I think it's more a matter of keeping things moving, stock that sits doesn't make money, that's why bikes that don't sell (FOR A PROFIT)get parted out, rather than sitting on it, or taking a loss, if something is underpriced it seems to be gone in a flash


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## Nickinator (Dec 20, 2015)

bikewhorder said:


> Whatever, I've found some good deals outside of the Cabe but all the really special bikes I own came from fellow collectors and were priced at less than they would have probably sold for on the open market.




I often see prices here less than ebay prices. We will list some of the more rare parts here first at a discount, then on to ebay ~ where it almost always sells for more...sometimes a lot more.

Darcie


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## scooter_trasher (Dec 20, 2015)

Nickinator said:


> I often see prices here less than ebay prices. We will list some of the more rare parts here first at a discount, then on to ebay ~ where it almost always sells for more...sometimes a lot more.
> 
> Darcie




The great thing about ebay is you have the luxury of paying more than anyone else in the world was willing to pay, as in this trailer that just sold for $100
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-Holiday-Rambler-/131679208058?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=L0zHh%252FjxDKz%252FKgwcz8h%252FVS21t%252BU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


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## Curtis68 (Dec 21, 2015)

This rant could not be truer. Know what you want, be willing to pay what's it's worth and pull the trigger when it comes up for sale.  Whether it is a bike a house or anything else out there be prepared to play or don't show up to the game.


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## bairdco (Dec 21, 2015)

Seems to me, that there are many different types of people in this, uh, "hobby," just like in every other form of collecting stuff.

There's the elitist, who has the means to purchase a bike way out of range for anyone else, who seems to find more joy in the ability to acquire and display (and brag) about what they have and you don't, and look at their bikes as property.

There's collectors who've chosen bikes as their main interest, who'll buy the rare bikes they can afford, mostly already restored or original, who fill room after room with their treasures...

There's the serious enthusiast, that collect, ride, restore, just because they love bikes, without the museum attitude of "look but don't touch."

The hobbyist who loves bikes, and the pride of bringing rust back to life, who shows off his work not to lord it over anyone else, but to say, "check out what I've built," because he's just happy to have people share his enthusiasm.

And there's just people who love old bikes. Rich or poor, they just want something cool to ride that isn't a mass market piece of crap. They may need that $500 rusty pedal to make their bike complete, but realise that it doesn't really matter when they're riding to the liquor store.

There's the bike flipper/ butcher, parter outer who knows everything about bikes and thinks it's still 1995 and it's a seller's market,  who watches storage wars and believes that his bikes are actually worth that much. 

We all want to be the guy who gets the "old bike for sale" craigslist score, or the "I found this at the dump" guy who rides away with the gold plated buster brown schwinn.

The guy who knows nothing, finds his grandma's bike in the shed and only wants to know "what's this worth." It could be anything, a bike, a toaster, a sow's ear purse. It's only a price tag he's interested in. 

And then there's the rest. People who love bikes. Yeah, cool, you got that 100% complete, original, only one in existence bike that Tesla designed, the Wright Bothers built, and Einstein autographed, that defies gravity and is a perpetual motion machine, and we ask if you wanna go riding at the boardwalk alongside our rusty-ass, mis-matched Colson/Roadmaster hybrid with a ripped seat off your sister's huffy.


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## vincev (Dec 21, 2015)

Dave Marko;" no matter how cheap they are to begin with said:
			
		

> Are you talking about your inflatable girlfriends?


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## Freqman1 (Dec 21, 2015)

Well if we have to be binned I'll take "serious enthusiast"--I ride all my stuff! V/r Shawn


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## Oldude13 (Dec 21, 2015)

I think no matter how much money we spend on our Bicycle collections Big or small $$$$ we are doing our part to have fun with the passion of collecting and preserving a little history.

And yes all my bikes are riders no garage or house Queens!
Like fellow caber's say riding them gets people talking
And i like the rant


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## Oldnut (Dec 21, 2015)

The hobbyist works for me to resurrect a pile and bring it back works


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## 37fleetwood (Dec 21, 2015)

I've spent a lot for a bike and I've had free bikes, none of them did I get because I thought it would make me cooler, I just liked them. don't believe me, I collected Huffmans when Huffmans were not cool, and once they began to become cool, I sold all the big spendy ones, not because of the money, I really didn't make anything off of them, I just didn't like the "mine's nicer than yours" thing that went along with them at that point.


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## fordmike65 (Dec 21, 2015)

I just like old bikes. Even a Schwinn once in a great while.:o


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## 37fleetwood (Dec 21, 2015)

fordmike65 said:


> Even a Schwinn once in a great while.:o




that's disgusting!


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## slick (Dec 21, 2015)

"Id rather ride a Huffy Monterey than a Huffman any day" 

My new ANTI, way over priced Huffman shirt, available soon at the Shelby Invasion.  Lol


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## bikebozo (Jan 7, 2022)

I remember the streamline at Copake , I did not bid because I knew I would get the example from Johnny in New Orleans someday , . That day finally came 6 years later. It certainly has been worth the wait , . At Copake I did not want to get in a bidding war with anyone.  If another bike becomes available , and it is in my reach  it will come to Central Florida!


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## 1817cent (Jan 8, 2022)

Getting back to the original point of this string 6 years ago, i appreciate anyone sending me leads on bikes or parts i advertize as needs or wants.  Several cabers have done that for me in the past and that is appreciated and it has worked out favorably most of the time except today.  I have posted that i wanted a postwar two tone green B6 recently and Pete offered one with problems today at 6:00 AM Eastern time this morning.  Unfortunately for me i live in the Pacific time zone but was up by 5:00 AM my time.  By the time i checked the cabe at 5:30 AM, the bike was long gone.  No one called or sent me a PM at 3:00 AM this morning!  NOT!! 😀😃  Better luck next time!


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