# 1939 Westfield built Victory Bicycles D98 with 3-speed



## 3-speeder (Nov 23, 2018)

Picked up this 1939 Men's Sports Tourist. It has to be my coolest bike now.  It has a Phillips Superior rear hub, looks double-sided. The saddle has 1939 stamped into the metal on the underside rear. Torrington model 7 pedals. 21" frame. Not too bad of condition considering it's age.  The repaint isn't too bad except for that the headbadge is missing. Not familiar with these so what do you think looks original, and what's not.


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## 3-speeder (Nov 23, 2018)

More pictures


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## juvela (Nov 23, 2018)

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Thanks very much for sharing this wonderful find!  

You wrote -

"The saddle has 1939 stamped into the metal on the underside rear."

This portion of the saddle frame is termed the cantle.

The D/S hub is an excellent feature.  Sometimes referred to as a "training hub."

Are you able to read a maker's name on the gear block body?  Cyclo perhaps?

Your usual outstanding job with the photo documentation.  

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Rota_derailleurs.html
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## 3-speeder (Nov 23, 2018)

Thanks for the link, great info. Spot on as always.  Found no markings on the gear block yet. Will get photos up with any new findings during rejuvenation process.


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## juvela (Nov 23, 2018)

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Lettuce know if you should discover any markings on stem/bar.

Bars sometimes bear markings on the end, beneath the handgrip.

Grips somewhat reminiscent of Dare.

Take your time and have lots of good fun with this...  

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## bikerbluz (Nov 23, 2018)

Dang that’s a cool bike!


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## 3-speeder (Nov 23, 2018)

A few more pictures. Front hub is New Departure. Anyone ID the saddle?


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## juvela (Nov 23, 2018)

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Saddle -

Surprised it has no maker's mark on the side in the area of the two small lacing holes.

The shape and placement of the integral bag loops may narrow the possibilities.

It might help the experts if you could make an image showing the underside of the nose.

We need to hear from Rudy - @rhm - on this.

He will likely I.D. it in a jiffy.

Thinking "Wrights" for some reason...but probably wrong as usual.  

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History/Usage -

The presence of the newspaper rack suggests it was employed by a young man for his delivery route when in its early life.

Suspect tyres may be OEM.  Given their tread we are not talking "high mileage" here...

Guessing it has enjoyed snoozing in indoor storage for over seventy years.

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One of the latest images shows a bit of the gear block's face plate...but alas, not eno' for any reading.

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## 3-speeder (Nov 23, 2018)

I did have this image. Sure reminds me of a Brooks.


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## juvela (Nov 23, 2018)

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Thank you!

Had not dawned on me dull braine that she might be a four-wire.  

Should greatly narrow the possibilities...

btw - you might have a go at removing some of the ferrous oxide deposition on the front of the clip to divine if there be a marking abiding thither...

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## rhm (Nov 24, 2018)

It is a Person's Saddle, made in Worcester MA.  The stamp on the side, sadly not preserved, is an elaborate design with two lions supporting a shield.  There was probably a stamped badge on the back at one point, rather fragile openwork spelling out the word PERSONS.  Some little bits of it are sometimes preserved, like part of the S.

The nose hardware is very similar to Brooks, but the cantle plate is a different shape, and the way the rails is attached is also pretty different.  If we want to be pedantic about it, there are only two wires.  

Thanks, Juvela, for alerting me to this.  I rarely check in with The Cabe, I know, I know.  --Rudi


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## 3-speeder (Nov 24, 2018)

rhm said:


> It is a Person's Saddle, made in Worcester MA.  The stamp on the side, sadly not preserved, is an elaborate design with two lions supporting a shield.  There was probably a stamped badge on the back at one point, rather fragile openwork spelling out the word PERSONS.  Some little bits of it are sometimes preserved, like part of the S.
> 
> The nose hardware is very similar to Brooks, but the cantle plate is a different shape, and the way the rails is attached is also pretty different.  If we want to be pedantic about it, there are only two wires.
> 
> Thanks, Juvela, for alerting me to this.  I rarely check in with The Cabe, I know, I know.  --Rudi




Thank you for the info. I'm going to take a close look at the sides for any traces of the stamping.


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## juvela (Nov 24, 2018)

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As can be seen, we got the right person for the job!   

Big thanks to rhm.  

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## slowride (Nov 25, 2018)

Beautiful bike 3-speeder! I notice on both sides of the handlebars near the stem there is what appears to be leather wrap? Can someone explain it's purpose ? 
Regards, Steve


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## catfish (Nov 25, 2018)

Cool find.


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## 3-speeder (Nov 25, 2018)

slowride said:


> Beautiful bike 3-speeder! I notice on both sides of the handlebars near the stem there is what appears to be leather wrap? Can someone explain it's purpose ?
> Regards, Steve



My theory on the leather wrap is that it was used as a second place to grab the bars?  It looks like an old golf club or tennis racket grip held down with a heavy layer of glue.


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## SirMike1983 (Nov 25, 2018)

What I like about this bike is that it's an American-made lightweight/utility type bike set up for extra performance. Somebody was serious about getting a bit more performance out of this bike back in the day, which would have been quite rare at that time. The three-speed set up and the Philco type add-on brakes are great to have, and were well-constructed. The Phillips flip-flop hub is really cool, and another well-made item. Even when bikes were being used for utility purposes during the second war, most were set up for very basic performance - a single speed with a coaster brake or similar. Sometimes you see a Sturmey AW from right before the war being used, which is a nice touch. On this particular bike, someone really put in the extra money for something with a little more "go" behind it. There aren't too many like this around, in large part because there weren't too many like this around back then.


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## 3-speeder (Nov 25, 2018)

SirMike1983 said:


> What I like about this bike is that it's an American-made lightweight/utility type bike set up for extra performance. Somebody was serious about getting a bit more performance out of this bike back in the day, which would have been quite rare at that time. The three-speed set up and the Philco type add-on brakes are great to have, and were well-constructed. The Phillips flip-flop hub is really cool, and another well-made item. Even when bikes were being used for utility purposes during the second war, most were set up for very basic performance - a single speed with a coaster brake or similar. Sometimes you see a Sturmey AW from right before the war being used, which is a nice touch. On this particular bike, someone really put in the extra money for something with a little more "go" behind it. There aren't too many like this around, in large part because there weren't too many like this around back then.



Well said


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## rhm (Nov 26, 2018)

This is what a well preserved Persons saddle looks like (not mine; photo from the web






I have one in reasonably good condition, and two or three that need new leather.  I've been working on reproducing the stamp, but (as you can see from the photo above) the stamp involves some complicated artwork.


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## 3-speeder (Nov 26, 2018)

rhm said:


> This is what a well preserved Persons saddle looks like (not mine; photo from the web
> 
> View attachment 908363
> 
> I have one in reasonably good condition, and two or three that need new leather.  I've been working on reproducing the stamp, but (as you can see from the photo above) the stamp involves some complicated artwork.



Oh wow. That is a nice looking saddle. Yeah, nothing left of a stamp on mine. I double checked.


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## 3-speeder (Nov 26, 2018)

Looking at the underside of this saddle I noticed a second piece of leather about the size of the top surface.  I have treated Brooks saddles with their Proofide treatment on the underside of the saddle and those were single layered leather. How would you recommend treating this Persons saddle? Thanks for any advice.


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## rhm (Nov 27, 2018)

Are you sure there's no trace of the stamp?  I thought I saw it on the photos of the left side of the bike.  Could be my imagination, of course.

It's hard to say what's the best thing to do with a saddle in this condition.  The leather has deteriorated, and you can't know how much strength it has until you exceed its strength and it tears. There is nothing you can do that will rejuvenate it or strengthen it.  If it were really hard, you might want to soften it, but it looks fairly soft already so I doubt that's what  you want. I presume you're not planning to ride it much, right?  And when you do, you'll be wearing normal clothes, not lycra cycling shorts etc?  If that's the case, I would definitely not put any of the greasy or waxy stuff that's normally recommended for a leather saddle; it'll just make a mess on your pants.  A little bit of neatsfoot oil would do no harm, it'll just get absorbed and disappear, but even so, I doubt it will do much good.

If I were going to ride it, I would cut a piece of firm foam --I'm thinking of the kind of foam used for flotation-- and stuff it between the leather and the top rails.  Enough foam that when you sit on it, your weight is transferred directly to the rails, rather than supported by the leather.  If you do this, take some time to cut the foam so it doesn't distort the shape of the leather; it should neatly take up all the interior space, but no more.  Another way to do the same thing is to take the really thin foam, like the kind of sheet foam that a new electrical appliance (computer monitor, microwave oven, TV) comes wrapped in; and fold it up into a triangle of the right size, and stuff that under the leather.  Am I making sense?


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## 3-speeder (Nov 27, 2018)

Thanks for the tips on the saddle. I'm a casual rider mostly so I might consider trimming a piece of foam to fit between the rails and the leather. I may also put on a different saddle if I end up riding this beauty more often. I appreciate the advice.
Double checked for any traces of stamping. Still nothing.
Edit: Just triple checked, by George it's there! On the left side. The shield can be seen. Pics later. Great eye rhm!


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## Mercian (Apr 21, 2019)

Hi Bob,

Thanks for pointing this one out to me. (-:

D141439, F10. As you've probably worked out, an October 1939 frame. I have listed very few surviving 1939 frame numbers, so I'm happy to see this one., and what a nice international piece. As someone said above, the original owner knew what he wanted.

The french derailleur Rota was made just down the road from me by Victor Simon in Lyon. Breveté SGDG means Patented, and here are the patents:

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Documents_-_Rota.html

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## 3-speeder (Apr 21, 2019)

Mercian said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> Thanks for pointing this one out to me. (-:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the information. Glad to be able to add to your findings. This project is still in the hopper. I'm thinking I'll probably be getting to it sometime this summer as I have a few more to rejuvenate ahead of it. The next project I'm looking forward to will be a ration-era Elgin lightweight and I'll be sure to post a thread on it.


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## 3-speeder (May 1, 2022)

I was reminded of this bike after seeing @New Mexico Brant 's Indian offering at the swaps.  His has beautiful original paint and that cool Indian badge.  Very similar build otherwise.  Mine is still hanging in the basement on the to-do list.  I'm hanging on to it though and look forward to the rejuvenation one day.









						Spring 2022 Memory Lane: What's Coming?! | Swap Meets, Events, Rides
					

Need a pick up Middletown Connecticut area to memory lane.  Will pay for the delivery, pm me - Mike




					thecabe.com


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