# Oldest Schwinn Privately Owned



## Freqman1

Just curious what the oldest Schwinn is in a collectors hands. The 1898 posted here not too long ago is the oldest I've seen outside the Schwinn family tandem in the BMA. Anyone got something older than 1898? V/r Shawn


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## fat tire trader

I think that my tandem might be older than 1898



 

More pics here http://fattiretrading.com/world_tandem.html


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## Freqman1

So are you thinking 1897 based on one piece crank? This would be awesome if you could find everything to make it road worthy. Badge holes have me puzzled. I think I took pics of the one in the BMA. If I can find them I'll post them up. Anyone else? V/r Shawn


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## fat tire trader

The reason that I think it might be older is the mechanism to take out the slack on the idler chain. The mechanism on the Schwinn Family Tandem seems more advanced.


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## volksboy57

My ancient ass schwinn tandem is just like the family tandem - the child's seat. Notice it has the floating chain tensioners: 

 
You can read all about it here:  http://www.ratrodbikes.com/forum/index.php?threads/prewar-schwinn-tandem.77533/


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## Freqman1

Ok so far two tandems. I looked at my pics I took at the Bicycle Museum of America (BMA) in New Bremen, OH and don't see any other pre 1900 Schwinns. I have also given a quick look at that last ten years of Copake and do not see anything. It just seems to me there should be more of these out there. I might need to move this question to the antique section to get more visibility? V/r Shawn


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## cyclingday

I'm curious as well, Shawn.
I've always wondered about that "I Will" headbadge and am thinking that it may be from the origins of the company.
I've never seen another one or on a picture of it on a bike, and the lack of information about pre 1900 bicycles built by AS&Co might explain why.
For now, the thing is kind of a mystery, and may be just one of the few pieces of a Schwinn bicycle built before 1900.
Don't know?


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## Freqman1

Marty the "Chicago" was Schwinn's lower priced line with "The World" being its main line. The 1898 catalog list the Chicago bikes at the end of the catalog. The World Model 22 Standard Roadster listed for $75 while the Special "Chicago" Roadster Model 31 listed for $40 and had a two piece crank, different fork, and lesser grade components. Interesting to note that Schwinn only guaranteed their World or Chicago bikes for 60 days from date of sale or at the latest 60 days from Dec 31, 1898 for all 1898 bicycles. V/r Shawn


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## cyclingday

Interesting stuff, Shawn.
Now, all I need to do, is find a nice original 1898 Chicago model 31 to mate my badge to.

I know, good luck on that one.
Haha!


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## ABC Services

The oldest Schwinn item I own would be this 1897 catalog.


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## Freqman1

Looks a lot like the '98 and '99 catalogs. I'd love to buy a good color copy of this catalog if you are so inclined. V/r Shawn


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## cyclingday

The World is mine!
Say's the Count of Monte Cristo.


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## Freqman1

Ok the reason I started this thread is because I bought the 1898 Model 22 that was listed here on the CABE. I have scoured the interwebs, looked at all the online Copake catalogs as well as all print catalogs back to 1994, and posted here. Other than the two partial tandems and the Schwinn family tandem in the BMA I've not seen anything else pre 1900. This really surprises me since Schwinn was a fairly prolific company even in the early days. This bike is in exceptional condition for being 118 years old and has some interesting features such as the threaded handlebars and what look like oil/grease ports on top of the crank hanger. I'd be interested in seeing anything pre-1900 either privately owned or in a museum. Lastly while the cat shows the bars in the up position I prefer the "scorcher" look especially on this optional 22" frame bike. The standard size was 24" with an optional 26" frame as well. They only came in one color--"Brewster Green, ornamented" (at least for 1898). V/r Shawn


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## cyclingday

Magnificent!


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## Schwinn499

LUCKY!


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## Pantmaker

I just want to sit around in a garage with that bike and look at it.


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## bricycle

volksboy57 said:


> My ancient ass schwinn tandem is just like the family tandem - the child's seat. Notice it has the floating chain tensioners:
> 
> 
> You can read all about it here:  http://www.ratrodbikes.com/forum/index.php?threads/prewar-schwinn-tandem.77533/



I LOVE the cob webs!


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## Freqman1

A little back story on this bike--1898 Schwinn The World Model 22 Standard Roadster. The guy that originally posted this on the CABE, stingrayjoe, was contacted by a friend that a widow was disposing of her husbands Ford Model T stuff and that there was some Smith and Briggs motor wheel stuff. Joe said when he go there all the motors were gone but there were some parts and only two bikes-this one and a 30's Elgin. He bought the bike and thought it might be a Schwinn because it said "The World" on the down tube. The bike had a lamp mounted to the head tube so it didn't have a badge. Once he posted here on the CABE, Scott (CABE owner), told him that it was an early Schwinn. Joe decided to sell the bike and I purchased it. 

So after studying the bike and looking at the components on the bike the only things that didn't match the catalog were the grips and the saddle. I know the grips are not correct and I have a wanted ad for the right ones. The saddle puzzled me though because it is a period saddle and I didn't think it had been changed out.  I found something interesting when I looked at the 1899 catalog posted online http://www.trfindley.com/pg_schwinn_cats.htm the 1899 catalog lists the Wheeler Extra saddle as standard. The Standard Roadster for 1899 was listed as Model 33 which rules out my bike being a 1899 model. It would appear that sometime in 1898 Schwinn changed from the Rubber Neck as the standard offering to the Wheeler Extra. 

So that's the story of the bike. My plans are to get a correct set of grips, hopefully upgrade the badge, and maybe get a set of Robert Dean white tire (which I would age appropriately). V/r Shawn


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## cyclingday

Shawn, what are the tires that are on it.
They look like a Gillette.


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## Freqman1

cyclingday said:


> Shawn, what are the tires that are on it.
> They look like a Gillette.




Sharp eye Marty--Gillette Ambassadors. V/r Shawn


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## bairdco

Now that's a schwinn I'd be proud to own.

Might be hard to find privately owned any older. 'Cause,  yknow. It's private...


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## bricycle

Freqman1 said:


> Sharp eye Marty--Gillette Ambassadors. V/r Shawn




I wouldn't try riding on them tho- seen a nos looking one peel it's tread right off.


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## Freqman1

This is a bike I bought that violates one of my rules; thou shalt not by something thy will not ride! If I get a set of Robert Deans I may take it to the end of the driveway and back just to say I rode it but other than that it will be display only. V/r Shawn


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## Freqman1

I had sent an inquiry to the Bicycle Museum of America in New Bremen, OH asking if they had any pre-1900 Schwinns besides the Schwinn family tandem. They have a nicely restored 1895 ladies bike, an unrestored tandem with a lot of wrong parts--seats, bars, grips, fenders, etc..., a triplet (three rider), and a quint (five rider). So it appears, so far, that tandems seemed to have survived at a far greater rate than single rider bikes. V/r Shawn


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

Freqman1 said:


> I had sent an inquiry to the Bicycle Museum of America in New Bremen, OH asking if they had any pre-1900 Schwinns besides the Schwinn family tandem. They have a nicely restored 1895 ladies bike, an unrestored tandem with a lot of wrong parts--seats, bars, grips, fenders, etc..., a triplet (three rider), and a quint (five rider). So it appears, so far, that tandems seemed to have survived at a far greater rate than single rider bikes. V/r Shawn



Meh, I have like 10 single riders still in the crates in the basement.....[emoji41] 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## volksboy57

I was looking through a Bicycle Museum of America gallery somewhere that showed the bikes they had in storage. The tandem they have in the basement is red with straight white pinstripes, not fancy. It is still a rear steer, and the headbadge is still the big old variety. The seats were just like the ones on my bike, making me think that both bikes had the seats replaced around the same time, or the seats are correct. If the seats are correct on the red tandem, and mine, I would like to know how early these seats came out, as an indicator of the age of my bike. Also, my tandem has the detailed pinstripes (albeit, more worn away and crusty) as your bike, so I would think my bike is pretty freaking old...


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## Freqman1

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> Meh, I have like 10 single riders still in the crates in the basement.....[emoji41]
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk



Those are Sears Free Spirits and I bet you have the 20 pr pack of white knee high tube socks with red stripes at the top packed in there with them! V/r Shawn


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

Freqman1 said:


> Those are Sears Free Spirits and I bet you have the 20 pr pack of white knee high tube socks with red stripes at the top packed in there with them! V/r Shawn



Haha

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Saving Tempest

Freqman1 said:


> Those are Sears Free Spirits and I bet you have the 20 pr pack of white knee high tube socks with red stripes at the top packed in there with them! V/r Shawn




That's impossible! Only people that wore Husky pants bought 1898 Free Spirits.


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## Freqman1

volksboy57 said:


> I was looking through a Bicycle Museum of America gallery somewhere that showed the bikes they had in storage. The tandem they have in the basement is red with straight white pinstripes, not fancy. It is still a rear steer, and the headbadge is still the big old variety. The seats were just like the ones on my bike, making me think that both bikes had the seats replaced around the same time, or the seats are correct. If the seats are correct on the red tandem, and mine, I would like to know how early these seats came out, as an indicator of the age of my bike. Also, my tandem has the detailed pinstripes (albeit, more worn away and crusty) as your bike, so I would think my bike is pretty freaking old...





Here is the bike you are talking about and I believe the bars, seats, pedals, wheels, and grips have been replaced. The fenders were added. V/r Shawn


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## Freqman1

Here are the other pre-1900 Schwinns in the BMA. The womens bike is listed as an 1895, the quint, triplet, and family tandems are all listed as 1896s. V/r Shawn


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## Evans200

cyclingday said:


> The World is mine!
> Say's the Count of Monte Cristo.



And so said Tony Montana !


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## Freqman1

Evans200 said:


> And so said Tony Montana !




Cyclingday is citing from page 4 of the 1898 Schwinn catalog. Ignaz was proud of his product and made sure there was no doubt that his bikes were the finest (according to the catalog)! V/r Shawn


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## cyclingday

I think the white bearded man that's holding up the roadster on the cover of the 1897 catalog is the Count of Monte Cristo
after he escaped from prison.
Nothing like the freedom of a Schwinn built bicycle after years of solitary confinement for a crime you did not do.

Alexander Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo
is a literary classic.

It was even mentioned with great effect in the all time classic prison break film,
 The  Shawshank Redemption.


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## Evans200

Freqman1 said:


> Cyclingday is citing from page 4 of the 1898 Schwinn catalog. Ignaz was proud of his product and made sure there was no doubt that his bikes were the finest (according to the catalog)! V/r Shawn



Just making a joke! Reference to Scarface and Al Pacino.


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## ABC Services

Its a quote in the catalog as well.


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## volksboy57

cyclingday said:


> t






Freqman1 said:


> Here is the bike you are talking about and I believe the bars, seats, pedals, wheels, and grips have been replaced. The fenders were added. V/r Shawn
> 
> View attachment 353600



Did the museum say the fenders were added? If so, the paint looks like a perfect match, unless that is a repaint at some point? I can see the wheels are updated, but I have the same rear rim on my tandem, but no fenders (probably just missing). I think they may have had these tandems for a number of years... Oh, also, isnt that Quint a badass bike?! Talk about not having storage space!


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## 47jchiggins

Wow Shawn, you are amassing quite a collection, I think you could charge admission..........

Todd


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## New Mexico Brant

cyclingday said:


> The World is mine!
> Say's the Count of Monte Cristo.



Dumas rocks Marty!  What a fantastic read...


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## fat tire trader

Freqman1 said:


> View attachment 352113



If the serial numbers are consistent on single and tandem bikes, and if your bike is a 98 with # 3678, then my tandem is older with number 3349


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## Freqman1

cyclingday said:


> Interesting stuff, Shawn.
> Now, all I need to do, is find a nice original 1898 Chicago model 31 to mate my badge to.
> 
> I know, good luck on that one.
> Haha!



@cyclingday I was just discussing early Schwinn's with another collector and realized that the 1899 cat doesn't show the "Chicago" line of bikes. This means your badge has to be 1898 or earlier and I'm guessing the Chicago brand was only about a two year thing. If we can find cats from '95-7 it would answer the question. Undoubtedly your Chicago badge is THE grail Schwinn badge. V/r Shawn


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## Tikibar

Schwinn published these as being from 1895













Schwinn-Mens-1895



__ Tikibar
__ Jan 7, 2018



						Reportedly from the book issued by Schwinn in 1945 to commemorate their 50th anniversary; "Fifty...
					
















Schwinn_Assembly-Shop-1895



__ Tikibar
__ Jan 7, 2018



						Reportedly from the book issued by Schwinn in 1945 to commemorate their 50th anniversary; "Fifty...
					
















Schwinn_Factory-1895



__ Tikibar
__ Jan 7, 2018



						Reportedly from the book issued by Schwinn in 1945 to commemorate their 50th anniversary; "Fifty...


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## Freqman1

Tikibar said:


> Schwinn published these as being from 1895
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Those images come from the "50 Years of Schwinn-Built Bicycles" book. I would love to see any cats or literature from 1895-97 that we haven't already seen. V/r Shawn


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## Mark Mattei

Hi Shawn, I don’t believe we have ever spoken and this may be a bit out there but I met an interesting man last weekend. He recently purchased and renovated an 1890’s Chicago factory building, it is located just west of the “Loop” (downtown) on the corner of Lake and Peoria Streets. A nice vintage 6 story that has escaped the wrecking ball. Having an interest in history (currently has a 4 cylinder Henderson being made roadworthy), after the purchase he discovered this was the first Schwinn factory! This was the home of Schwinn from 1895 till 1900 after which production was moved to a larger location. His architectural office is in the first floor and is keen to have an original 1890’s Schwinn to display. I am looking through my early Schwinn business document collection to see if I have anything to assist him with. If you have any interest in contacting him, call me and I will pass his information on. 773-608-9004  Thanks, Mark Mattei. 







Freqman1 said:


> Ok the reason I started this thread is because I bought the 1898 Model 22 that was listed here on the CABE. I have scoured the interwebs, looked at all the online Copake catalogs as well as all print catalogs back to 1994, and posted here. Other than the two partial tandems and the Schwinn family tandem in the BMA I've not seen anything else pre 1900. This really surprises me since Schwinn was a fairly prolific company even in the early days. This bike is in exceptional condition for being 118 years old and has some interesting features such as the threaded handlebars and what look like oil/grease ports on top of the crank hanger. I'd be interested in seeing anything pre-1900 either privately owned or in a museum. Lastly while the cat shows the bars in the up position I prefer the "scorcher" look especially on this optional 22" frame bike. The standard size was 24" with an optional 26" frame as well. They only came in one color--"Brewster Green, ornamented" (at least for 1898). V/r Shawn
> 
> View attachment 352101View attachment 352102View attachment 352103View attachment 352104View attachment 352105View attachment 352106View attachment 352107View attachment 352108View attachment 352109View attachment 352110View attachment 352111View attachment 352112View attachment 352113
> View attachment 352114View attachment 352115View attachment 352116





Freqman1 said:


> Ok the reason I started this thread is because I bought the 1898 Model 22 that was listed here on the CABE. I have scoured the interwebs, looked at all the online Copake catalogs as well as all print catalogs back to 1994, and posted here. Other than the two partial tandems and the Schwinn family tandem in the BMA I've not seen anything else pre 1900. This really surprises me since Schwinn was a fairly prolific company even in the early days. This bike is in exceptional condition for being 118 years old and has some interesting features such as the threaded handlebars and what look like oil/grease ports on top of the crank hanger. I'd be interested in seeing anything pre-1900 either privately owned or in a museum. Lastly while the cat shows the bars in the up position I prefer the "scorcher" look especially on this optional 22" frame bike. The standard size was 24" with an optional 26" frame as well. They only came in one color--"Brewster Green, ornamented" (at least for 1898). V/r Shawn
> 
> View attachment 352101View attachment 352102View attachment 352103View attachment 352104View attachment 352105View attachment 352106View attachment 352107View attachment 352108View attachment 352109View attachment 352110View attachment 352111View attachment 352112View attachment 352113
> View attachment 352114View attachment 352115View attachment 352116


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## pedalpower17

Freqman1 said:


> maybe get a set of Robert Dean white tire (which I would age appropriately). V/r Shawn



Hey, Shawn, can you share your method for aging white tires?   Just leaving them exposed to the sun for a summer?   I have a repo set of white walls for a 1940 Westfield that I would like to "age appropriately"?  Hope to see you in AA...


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