# 63 stingray



## Notagamerguy (Dec 24, 2021)

I purchased this and it just arrived today. I believe its an August 63 frame. Im never owned a 63 or 64 stingray befor. Just curious on everyones thoughts. I didn't think 63s had fenders


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## ODDER (Dec 24, 2021)

I have two 63 deluxe stingrays with fenders. I think yours might be early after they started the fender thing. Serial number shows August 63. Cool score. It’ll be a fun project


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## Notagamerguy (Dec 24, 2021)

ODDER said:


> I have two 63 deluxe stingrays with fenders. I think yours might be early after they started the fender thing. Serial number shows August 63. Cool score. It’ll be a fun project



Good to hear!


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## 60sstuff (Dec 24, 2021)

That looks like an Aug. ‘63 Red J38 Standard that someone added fenders to.
Typically the first Deluxe models with fenders started in Nov. / Dec. 1963.
These late ‘63 Deluxe’s also came with white wall tires and the reverse screen guard, plus a tufted seat.
Are you able to see a date stamped on the inside of the fork drop out?

It has the “Diamond Tread” rear tire that Schwinn used on the ‘63 Stingrays. You may be able to decipher the date codes on the tires.
That 36 spoke rear wheel is the worst I’ve ever seen. Rusted completely through in one spot.

Cool find!
My Red Aug. ‘63 J38 is shown below.

PS, I see a PERSONS tag on the back of that seat. Can you take a clear photo of it?


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## Notagamerguy (Dec 24, 2021)

60sstuff said:


> That looks like an Aug. ‘63 Red J38 Standard that someone added fenders to.
> Typically the first Deluxe models with fenders started in Nov. / Dec. 1963.
> These late ‘63 Deluxe’s also came with white wall tires and the reverse screen guard, plus a tufted seat.
> Are you able to see a date stamped on the inside of the fork drop out?
> ...


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## 60sstuff (Dec 24, 2021)

Thank you for the additional photos!

The rear Diamond tread tire is dated 1st quarter of 1965.

The hardware (screws and nuts) securing the fenders are not factory Schwinn hardware.

The fork date looks like 9-3 which is close enough for that frame date considering we are talking about the first year 1963.

That PERSONS tag looks like it may have the small ears on the ends that the rivets pass through??


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## Notagamerguy (Dec 24, 2021)

60sstuff said:


> Thank you for the additional photos!
> 
> The rear Diamond tread tire is dated 1st quarter of 1965.
> 
> ...



It does appear to have the ears the rivets seam to cover it.


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## 60sstuff (Dec 24, 2021)

Tire date information.

I’m sure that rear tire is a replacement.
Did you find a date on the front tire?


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## Notagamerguy (Dec 24, 2021)

60sstuff said:


> Tire date information.
> 
> I’m sure that rear tire is a replacement.
> Did you find a date on the front tire?
> ...



My apologies i didn't notice the one dot. Here is the front tire.i assuming The 3" Reflector isn't the original one. Shouldn't it have the bent around braket.


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## stingrayjoe (Dec 24, 2021)

Cool bike! The seat strut looks correct for '63, no stamping in the tubing for the Q bolts at top. Is it stamped Persons USA at the bottom?


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## rfeagleye (Dec 24, 2021)

Great bike! Nice find there! The front tire date is the 3rd Quarter of 1963, that is probably original to the bike.


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## rfeagleye (Dec 24, 2021)

Hey Chris, explain the Terra Cotta vs. Flamboyant Red thing so everyone knows what's up there. Is this 1963 a Terra Cotta?


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## Notagamerguy (Dec 24, 2021)

stingrayjoe said:


> Cool bike! The seat strut looks correct for '63, no stamping in the tubing for the Q bolts at top. Is it stamped Persons USA at the bottom?



No its smooth at the bottom. Other sissy bars i had were marked persons.


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## Notagamerguy (Dec 24, 2021)

rfeagleye said:


> Hey Chris, explain the Terra Cotta vs. Flamboyant Red thing so everyone knows what's up there. Is this 1963 a Terra Cotta?



I wish its just faded red. Atleast i assume that ive never sean terra cotta.


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## rfeagleye (Dec 24, 2021)

That color looks like Terra Cotta to me. Terra Cotta reminds me of tomato soup 😀


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## 60sstuff (Dec 24, 2021)

Some observations.

A small Original 1963 1/2 leaflet telling the features on the first Stingray on both sides.

There were 2 1964 sales brochures printed.
First issue showing the color choices which offered Terra Cotta.
Second issue shows Red, but no TC.

The April ‘64 Schwinn Reporter states Terra Cotta has been dropped as a color choice. This is the time Red replaced TC.
This information coincides with the two catalogs.
It seems the colors went like this - Red, then Terra Cotta, then Red again until the end of 1964.
There have been reports of later Terra Cotta Stingrays out there??

The early ‘63 reflector brackets had square ends that folded around the seat strut. These would cut your fingers.
The later version bracket was rounded.

The seat strut on my August 23, 1963 does not have any markings on the bottom legs, but does have the very small vent/drain hole that was used on the first design struts.

Some early version square back struts have a PAT. PENDING stamp and others have PERSONS stamp.

Your strut seems to have some lettering when magnified, possibly PAT. PENDING?

PS, if your able to take the rusted screws out holding the Schwinn badge, then maybe you’ll get an accurate Original color on this bike.


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## stingrayjoe (Dec 24, 2021)

Interesting - I just looked and have one of the Persons USA Pat Pending..
Great info Chris.
Merry Christmas to all on the CABE!


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## 60sstuff (Dec 24, 2021)

The front westwind tire has the correct date code (3rd quarter of 1963) for your Aug. 12, 1963 Stingray. Cool!


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## PCHiggin (Dec 25, 2021)

Great find, Wish I ran across one like it. Nice winter project. I’d leave the finishes  alone just a good cleaning


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## Hoagie57 (Dec 25, 2021)

Here's one to ponder over. Frame/Fork/Guard is it Terra-Cotta or Red 4 out of 5 say its Terra-Cotta. Tried to get a clear shot of the fork # but just can't get it to come out clear. Date code ( 12-3 ). Looking close at the rear drop out, can't tell 1st letter in the pic but it's a ( M 3 ). So, both make sense it's a Dec 1963. Head badge if off so you can see it's not faded Red. Original never been repainted, no touch ups. Had it next to a Red and this color is defiantly not the same. Feel free to voice your option if you wish. Was 100% complete when I got it 25 + yrs. ago. This is what's left of it. For sale if interested in for the right offer.


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## nick tures (Dec 25, 2021)

cool bike, whats the plans for it ?  i would clean grease and ride !


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Dec 25, 2021)

Hoagie57 said:


> Here's one to ponder over. Frame/Fork/Guard is it Terra-Cotta or Red 4 out of 5 say its Terra-Cotta. Tried to get a clear shot of the fork # but just can't get it to come out clear. Date code ( 12-3 ). Looking close at the rear drop out, can't tell 1st letter in the pic but it's a ( M 3 ). So, both make sense it's a Dec 1963. Head badge if off so you can see it's not faded Red. Original never been repainted, no touch ups. Had it next to a Red and this color is defiantly not the same. Feel free to voice your option if you wish. Was 100% complete when I got it 25 + yrs. ago. This is what's left of it. For sale if interested in for the right offer.
> 
> View attachment 1533696
> 
> ...



Oh Santa was supposed to drop that at my house. It was on my list.


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## Notagamerguy (Dec 25, 2021)

nick tures said:


> cool bike, whats the plans for it ?  i would clean grease and ride !



Yeah the plan is to leave the paint alone  get everything moving. Clean the light surface rust and leave the heavy rust alone.oil all the paint and rust. And put new rims on it. And keep as much original as i can.


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## nick tures (Dec 25, 2021)

Notagamerguy said:


> Yeah the plan is to leave the paint alone  get everything moving. Clean the light surface rust and leave the heavy rust alone.oil all the paint and rust. And put new rims on it. And keep as much original as i can.



very nice, injoy the project ! post a picture when you get done !!


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## 60sstuff (Dec 25, 2021)

Notagamerguy said:


> Yeah the plan is to leave the paint alone  get everything moving. Clean the light surface rust and leave the heavy rust alone.oil all the paint and rust. And put new rims on it. And keep as much original as i can.



I highly recommend this product.

This is what’s being used on old Survivor cars, bicycles, etc. 

Spray or wipe it on paint, chrome, vinyl and it protects against the elements without harming anything.


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## Notagamerguy (Dec 25, 2021)

60sstuff said:


> I highly recommend this product.
> 
> This is what’s being used on old Survivor cars, bicycles, etc.
> 
> ...



Ill definitely give that a shot. I was also recommend boiled linseed oil.


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## indycycling (Dec 26, 2021)

Notagamerguy said:


> Great find and will be a nice project. This is my Red K3 October 63, bought it restored in this condition.  Look forward to seeing yours as you clean and keep it original. I"ve got a few original 63-64 as well, plus a 64 red Deluxe with fenders and whitewalls






Notagamerguy said:


>


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## Notagamerguy (Dec 26, 2021)

I picked up this persons seat because i only have half the pan from the stingray. There's no rear tag,  persons is stamped on the bottom and there's no big rectanglular sticker on the bottom. I assume this is newer than 63?


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## indycycling (Dec 26, 2021)

Notagamerguy said:


> I picked up this persons seat because i only have half the pan from the stingray. There's no rear tag,  persons is stamped on the bottom and there's no big rectanglular sticker on the bottom. I assume this is newer than 63?
> 
> View attachment 1534196
> 
> ...



Persons made seats for several companies and they may not have tags if not Schwinn. They offered these prior to '63 to other brands. I have several like yours without the tags.  The pan is the same, you've got a great donor for your 63 there. Have it restored and add the tag - just drill it out for the rivets


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## Notagamerguy (Dec 26, 2021)

indycycling said:


> Persons made seats for several companies and they may not have tags if not Schwinn. They offered these prior to '63 to other brands. I have several like yours without the tags.  The pan is the same, you've got a great donor for your 63 there. Have it restored and add the tag - just drill it out for the rivets



Awesome to hear thank you.


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## Notagamerguy (Dec 26, 2021)

Does anyone have the exact length of 63 q bolts?


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## indycycling (Dec 26, 2021)

Notagamerguy said:


> Does anyone have the exact length of 63 q bolts?



They are 1 1/2" long from tip to tip. 63 was longest for the non crimped sissy bar and they are shouldered to pass through the bar and seat, then threaded. 

There are two more lengths as well, for 64 crimped square back sissy bar, then the shortest for the more typical hooped sissy bars from 65 on up


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## Notagamerguy (Dec 26, 2021)

indycycling said:


> They are 1 1/2" long from tip to tip. 63 was longest for the non crimped sissy bar and they are shouldered to pass through the bar and seat, then threaded.
> 
> There are two more lengths as well, for 64 crimped square back sissy bar, then the shortest for the more typical hooped sissy bars from 65 on up



Do you know how long the shoulder is on the 1 1/2" bolt?


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## indycycling (Dec 26, 2021)

Notagamerguy said:


> Do you know how long the shoulder is on the 1 1/2" bolt?



Top of bolt cap to bottom of shoulder is 3/4"


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## 60sstuff (Dec 26, 2021)

All my early Q bolts (63 - early ‘64) measure at 1-5/8’’ from top of head to end of threads.
The smooth shoulder measures 3/4‘’ from top of head to start of thread.

There were two styles of fonts on the Q, most of the ’63 models had the small Q. Then late ‘63 and into the first months of ‘64 they used the large Q on these long bolts used with the non-crimp struts.

My H3 came with the small Q and my L3 came with the larger Q, which was used for the rest of the Stingray Series to ‘73.


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## indycycling (Dec 26, 2021)




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## indycycling (Dec 26, 2021)

Above as I referred to previously


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## Coyote (Jan 10, 2022)

A lot of great documentation and info in this thread!
What is the appropriate rear reflector (make, diameter) for such a bike?
I think they were using Stimsonites in that era?


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## 60sstuff (Jan 10, 2022)

The correct rear reflector for the ‘63 and ‘64 J38 Standard is the Stimsonite (2 pie) that measures 1-3/4’’.
My Red ‘63 and Lime ‘63 are shown below with their small 2 pie.

The larger Stimsonite (2 pie) at 3-1/4’’ would have come on the Deluxe models in ‘63-‘64.

Starting in 1965, all Standard and Deluxe models came with the Large reflector.

The Stratolite (6 pie) would be on the later Stingrays / Krates.


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