# Help with 5-bar ID? (Monark?)



## Andrew Gorman (May 6, 2009)

Can anyone help me ID this 5-bar?  I think it's a Monark, based on the chainring.  The fenders are stainless and the handlebars are aluminum.  The front fork is NOT a springer, and I haven't scraped through the swimming pool blue paint to see if it ever had a tank.  Overall condition is wretched.  The guy I bought it from pulled it out of a hedge when I asked if he had any old or weird looking bicycles. Apologies on the wretched picture too.  Any help will be appreciated!
Thanks in advance.


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## Parker (May 6, 2009)

Not sure about the frame, but the sprocket has a monark accessory chainguard that's supposed to be riveted to the sprocket. Not sure if its rare, but I've seen it enough to immediately recognize it
If you ever plan to get rid of it I'll trade you a regular polished aluminum 52t monark sprocket. It would solve a problem with a bike I have.


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## RMS37 (May 6, 2009)

Hi Andrew,

The bike is a Monark built 5-Bar. Monark, Snyder, and Cleveland Welding all produced 5-Bar bicycles but only the Monark frames have tubes that flow continuously under the crank hanger. The style frame you have was mainly produced and sold as a Hawthorne model but it also turns up badged as a Monark.

Your bike may have been sold as a Monark judging by the SS fenders and the aluminum handlebars. Both of those items were used on other Monarks but were not used on the Hawthorne models.

The sprocket mounted chain ring is a Monark feature and is original to the bike. Monark produced a similar frame with a straight bar instead of the curved lower top tube on your bike. The straight bar versions will accept the Monark hanging tank but no tank was ever produced for the frame you have. 

Good to see it escaped it?s internment in the hedge; if the rust isn?t too bad you have a nice project on our hands.  There have been recent posts regarding Monark serial numbers; it would be interesting to see how yours fits in.


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## redline1968 (May 7, 2009)

here's a model that has the 5-bar features and excessories its a springer. yours looks like a double curved bar model.


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## Andrew Gorman (May 8, 2009)

Thanks for the assistance!  All of the Monark 5-bars I had seen were the straight lower bar type.  At least I don't have to scare up a tank, but this bike is a few years down the line on the restoration queue and 2000 miles away from me right now.  I will check the serial number when I get back there.  Also, most 5-bars I've seen have a slight curve to the downtube while this one is straight.  Does that help pin down a year?  I'd like to find a catalog page or some other pictures of what the bike looked like when new.
Thanks again!


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## RMS37 (May 8, 2009)

Monark produced 5-Bar frames for Montgomery Ward beginning in mid-late 1937. The Monark built 5-Bar is depicted in the 1937-1938, and 1938 issues of the catalog. 

In the 1938-1939 catalog all the models shown are Snyder built and the Duralium bikes are no longer being offered. In that catalog 5-Bar models with straight down tubes are still being offered but it appears that Monark was no longer a supplier. 

In the 1939 and 1939-1940 catalogs, 5-Bar models were updated and offered with the twin serpentine down tubes, but these were supplied by Snyder and Cleveland Welding; Monark did not produce 5-Bar frames with curved down tubes.

While Monark was out of the Ward?s picture by 1939, they continued to produce several versions of the 5-Bar frame and later steel loop frame models at least through 1940 and perhaps longer.

I don?t have any Monark specific literature but I will scan and post the picture of the original Ward?s offering when I get a chance.


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## redline1968 (May 8, 2009)

ok.. i read rare , real rare and only one..  well how many are left?   does anyone know?  im curious to find out.   even though it not a five bare frame.  i have only seen one bike like mine and thats mine.  there's two five bars on nostalgic.  iam sure there are others out there  like but none that came up in the 20 years of my bicycle collecting. are there any stats on how many of these paticular bikes left?

mark


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## RMS37 (May 8, 2009)

Rarity can refer to the specific configuration or paint of an individual bike (Sort of like the stats on Muscle cars which often look to the combinations of accessories and original interior and exterior colors to derive a relative rarity for a particular automobile) or rarity can be taken more broadly as how many frames were produced to a particular configuration.

When Monark started producing steel frames they were definitely looking to produce in volume, possibly with the realization that they could produce more frames at a lower production cost than the duralium frames they started with.  

The downside of the 5-Bar frames is that in general use they proved more fragile than standard design steel frames and many have been lost to collision damage or to rust over the years. The relative high survival rate of the duralium frames is in part to the fact that even when cracked and broken they often didn?t get thrown out for rust issues.

There will never be accurate survival stats for any Balloon bike because there will always be survivors out there in barns unknown to the collecting community. The one steel pre-war Monark that is not known for certain to exist in any collection is the dual suspension 5-Bar model that incorporated a version of the early Monark spring fork in the rear. Beyond that, the variations of the steel loop frame could be considered fairly rare.

Monark seems to have had a very active ?backroom? and prewar steel frame Monarks exist in a larger variety than many other manufacturers would have likely produced. The 5-Bar and related 4-Bar girl?s frames come in several variations, none of which are common but none of which are truly rare. The 5-Bar with the curved lower top tube was produced for MW for at least a year and production was probably in the low thousands. It was also sold out side of MW allowing for addition production years other possible OEM variations. The straight bar version was produced for several years and between the two I have personally seen and seen pictures of probably twenty or more frames over the years (a high number of which have displayed major frame damage)

The more standard steel Monark frame (pictured by Redline) sort of evolved from a model with a straight down tube to a model with a curved down tube. In approx. 1941 the frame was again modified with a curved lower top tube and the hanging straight bar tank (which adapts to the straight bar 5-Bar, steel loop, and standard frames) was replaced with a tank with a curved under belly. This model essentially evolved postwar into the Monark Rocket model. 

The straight down tube version of this model seems to be the least common but all versions exist in reasonable numbers.


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## Aeropsycho (May 8, 2009)

*More Confusing....*



redline1968 said:


> ok.. i read rare , real rare and only one..  well how many are left?   does anyone know?  im curious to find out.   even though it not a five bare frame.  i have only seen one bike like mine and thats mine.  there's two five bars on nostalgic.  iam sure there are others out there  like but none that came up in the 20 years of my bicycle collecting. are there any stats on how many of these paticular bikes left?
> 
> mark





Here is a Elgin... I have seen another 2 like this...

And another Hawthorne... Monark made

I have 3 Five Bar Monarks all welded different and 1 Hawthorne 5 Bar straight down tubes made by snyder???

Any other photos that anyone has would be great!!!:eek:


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## Aeropsycho (May 8, 2009)

*Another Elgin/Monark*

Same except for tank 40-41...

Elgin Pic Next Post...Sorry

I have a 41 with a painted fender light and double springer...


Original paint similar to a 5-Bar  Mc Cully "Blimp" Chain guard...


No Jr. Not for sale yet...


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## Aeropsycho (May 8, 2009)

*Here...*

Elgin on Buzz Bomb's site...Not a 38...


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## Andrew Gorman (May 8, 2009)

Great information, and some great looking bikes!  My frame also has some "period" repair work- at least the left hand tubes were re-brazed at the steerer.  From what I remember, there was some sloppy extra brass, but it wasn't an awful job.  It was done sometime before the bike was painted blue, so it must have been roadworthy afterwards.  That hot work could explain why the head badge is missing.  I wish I was closer to the bike to check on the serial number and general condition.  Mentally at least, it's bubbling up in the queue for repair.


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## redline1968 (May 8, 2009)

got to admit the quality of the construction is poor. mine had the fork broken and poorly repaired.   it took me 10 years to find a replacement.    i often thought getting a 5 bar frame for it because everything else is 5 bar.


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## Andrew Gorman (Aug 19, 2009)

Where is the serial number located?  I'm unexpectedly back near the bike and could not find the usual Monark aluminum tag.  I've also lost my glasses in a brush pile, which doesn't help me much.  The bike does have a Hawthorne badge, and New Departure Model D brake.


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## Andrew Gorman (Dec 25, 2009)

Resurrecting an old thread, where IS the serial number on this bike?  I'm back within range and can spend some quality wire brush time looking for it.
Thanks!


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## dave the wave (Dec 25, 2009)

*here's a hawthorne*

this is monark built.


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## yeshoney (Dec 26, 2009)

*Dave The Wave*

Dave,
I sent you a PM and just wondered if you received it.

Thanks, Joe


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