# Zep frame



## WEAKFISH (Jan 9, 2010)

*Zep "Style" frame*

Anyone have a picture of a prewar Zep "style" bike with a Zenith badge. I bought a frame but would like to see the original color scheme, fenders, seat etc.


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## 37fleetwood (Jan 9, 2010)

"Zep" was a Montgomery Wards model, therefore a Zenith cannot be a Zep.


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## WEAKFISH (Jan 9, 2010)

Sorry...  Snyder built..


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## RMS37 (Jan 9, 2010)

Thanks Scott for carrying the torch. I tried for some time to coax people out of using ?Zep? to describe all the similar frames Snyder produced under various badges. Unfortunately there does not seem to be a single factory name for this ubiquitous frame. I tried the ?Snyder Fastback Sport Frame? but that has yet to catch on. (LOL)

Montgomery Ward used the Zep name for their top of the line bike for years and on many very different models. The 1937 version which uses the ?Snyder Fastback Sport Frame? is unique in the Zep version for the inclusion of a built in head or fork crown lock which separates it from the lesser Hawthorne Comet and Sport models also built on a version of the ?SFSF? frame. 

Anyway, I?ve generally moved on to beating other dead dogs.  In the hobby, if you want to verbally conjure an accurate image of an SFSF frame in someone?s mind there is no better way than to call it a ?Zep? style frame.

The frame in question was the backbone of Snyder production between late 1935 and 1938 and remained in production perhaps into 1940. There are lots of small variations in the frames due to production modifications over the production span.

Snyder serial numbers are confusing and not entirely helpful for dating a frame but your Zenith has the locking collet seat binder which was adopted in 1936 and dropped for 1937. The earliest 1936 style frames have closely spaced top tubes and will not accept the tank. Your frame looks like it has the larger aperture so it is probably from mid to late 1936.

This link is to a Snyder built Marshall Wells Zenith bike that Shane has. It is the Moto-Balloon model which is probably a bit earlier than your bike but the two styles were produced concurrently for a couple of years. 
http://www.thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7282&highlight=zenith

Snyder had a short pallet of colors on general, standard offer at that time and Cobalt blue seems to be the default color for a lot of the Snyder production with Indian red following a close second and Black third. Maroon, Green and Suntone (Tan) also were available in the Snyder spectrum. It looks like some blue is showing through beneath the black on your bike. The plain white darts are likely the pattern that was original to your bike. For the rest of the bits that would finish the bike I would look at what was standard Snyder fare in 1936 (painted full crescent fenders,etc)


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## WEAKFISH (Jan 9, 2010)

Great info. just what I was looking for. thanks Phil!!  I have a decal on the seat tube that I can't see very well. I'm guessing it was blue..I'll slowly remove the black paint to see if I can see the scheme. Anyone have a Marshall Wells catalog picture of this?

These Snyder Fastback sport frames are sharp looking to say the least!!


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## 37fleetwood (Jan 9, 2010)

I always wanted one and finally got a Wards Comet and found out that the problem with these are the frame size. I was so upset when I realized I would never fit it. for a while I thought mine was a 24" bike but it wasn't, it was just small.
Phil is the guy with the knowledge for these, I kinda stick to the Huffman stuff. give me a nice 19" tall Super Streamliner frame any day!


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## sensor (Jan 9, 2010)

same thing with me.....i just use it for bar cruises and not any type of distance rides(after a few beers its not as bad)
btw....the scallops on the one that strings and spokes has are the same that are on mine and i took measurements off the original paint before i repaired it. if i can find the paper with those ill give you them


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## Strings-n-Spokes (Jan 9, 2010)

Some really great info Phil.  I picked up an sfsf Hawthorne this summer and was pleasantly surprised with the ride.
With  the seat up and back there is plenty o' room for me at 6'1"


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## sensor (Jan 9, 2010)

ohhh....i forgot to mention that im 6' and have my seat and bars all the way down
same as a chopped and channeled coupe........might not be the most comfy thing but it looks great


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## 37fleetwood (Jan 10, 2010)

I'm 6'1", 210lbs and like to be comfortable when I ride, my knees are too bad for such a small frame. I'd also love to have a Wingbar but just can't see it happening.
here is a photo of my "Zep" type (sorry Phil, I couldn't help myself) before I sold it.


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## WEAKFISH (Jan 10, 2010)

sensor said:


> same thing with me.....i just use it for bar cruises and not any type of distance rides(after a few beers its not as bad)
> btw....the scallops on the one that strings and spokes has are the same that are on mine and i took measurements off the original paint before i repaired it. if i can find the paper with those ill give you them





that would be great thanks!! I guess we are all 6'!" I'm 6' 1" 205 This will be for short neighborhood or bar cruises also..


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## Strings-n-Spokes (Jan 10, 2010)

Here is pic of the badge with the original paint

Nice job on that frame Sensor


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## WEAKFISH (Jan 10, 2010)

Strings-n-Spokes said:


> Here is pic of the badge with the original paint
> 
> Nice job on that frame Sensor




Nice!! Thank you. Any more pix of that bike?


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## Strings-n-Spokes (Jan 10, 2010)

Here are a few B4 I cleaned it up.


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## Strings-n-Spokes (Jan 10, 2010)

And after a mild detail and the new tire treatment.


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## WEAKFISH (Jan 10, 2010)

WOW!! Nice bike!! I can see a decal on the seat tube of my frame but can't make it out. What does yours look like? Thanks for the pix.


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## Strings-n-Spokes (Jan 11, 2010)

I don't have a good pic of it,but it is a common Snyder decal.  It has the skiptooth sprocket with the "H" on it someone should have a pic of it...Ronald maybe?


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## supper15fiets (Jan 11, 2010)

...glad you asked ! here is my 1936/37 rollfast (model NO. K-24F)
i made the bike originele as possible, got the one year seatstem nut i made the decals myself,
exact lie the originele, even the color is picked from an originele color from the Harved zep from Scott mc Caskey,
swan stem deluxe ( not in this picture) ,the extra big headlight, ect...


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## sensor (Jan 11, 2010)

sorry mine didnt have any decals
and great looking bike supper15fiets!


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## WEAKFISH (Jan 11, 2010)

Beautiful bike Ronald!!


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## WEAKFISH (Jan 13, 2010)

Strings-n-Spokes said:


> I don't have a good pic of it,but it is a common Snyder decal.  It has the skiptooth sprocket with the "H" on it someone should have a pic of it...Ronald maybe?





Here's what seat tube decal looks like. It's hard to see. Anyone have an idea? Again it has a Zenith head badge.


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## supper15fiets (Jan 15, 2010)

sensor said:


> sorry mine didnt have any decals
> and great looking bike supper15fiets!





..on the looks of your frame it's had a tank, maby Hawthorne used the "speed & ease " decal i made three different speed&ease decals but there never printed it,there very cool! in the end i choose for the Rollfast so i could make all the possible decals there where..only i had a originele rollfast bicycle club decal but it didn't make it through the water....here are the decals that i made for the different "zep"frames...


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## supper15fiets (Jan 15, 2010)

WEAKFISH said:


> Here's what seat tube decal looks like. It's hard to see. Anyone have an idea? Again it has a Zenith head badge.




...i think speed&ease with the "lightning-beam" , it looks like the shape of it...


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## WEAKFISH (Jan 16, 2010)

Those are great Ronald thanks!!  I agree the Speed and Ease with the bolt looks like the one on my frame, but I was wondering if Zenith had their own decal , or if Snyder put on a decal of their own before they sent the bikes out to Marshal Wells? Was Speed and Ease a Rollfast or Hawthorne?

I think this (top left) is the decal Strings and Spokes has on his Zenith..


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## supper15fiets (Jan 16, 2010)

WEAKFISH said:


> Those are great Ronald thanks!!  I agree the Speed and Ease with the bolt looks like he one on my frame, but I was wondering if Zenith had their own decal , or if Snyder put a decal of their own before they sent the bikes out to Marshal Wells? Was Speed and Ease a Rollfast or Hawthorne?





I think that Rollfast used the "speed & ease" decal standard on some frames for a period, i saved a lot of pictures of Zepframes from the web, the most comment decal is the lightning bolt decal, also my frame had one on it, but the badge was Samsco,i am also grazy about this little decal, it will finish your bike....


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## axsepul (Nov 21, 2011)

I have seen two bikes around here with that style of frame but had an excelsior badge. Is that possible?


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## Old Man Wolf (Jun 19, 2013)

*Reviving A 2 Year Old Thread...*

Hey Guys,
I realize this is a 2 year old thread...
... but I'm in the same boat tring to find photos of a Marshall Wells Zenith!
(Just I'm looking for '37-'38 instead of '36!)

When in need - leave no stone unturned right???

WeakFish - Did you ever find any photos of a '36 (ish) Marshall Wells Zenith WITH a tank???

Talk Soon!
Blessings!
Will & Wendy,


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## Barto (Jan 24, 2018)

This is a great thread and well deserves to be re-posted.  If you like Pre War Snyder built Fastback frames, this is the thread for you.  These frames are so cool I would put one on my shop wall as Art   Great information about Snyder framed Zep's.   I've read several posts referring to the pre war Snyder built frames as "Zeps"...I knew it was incorrect but I never knew the difference between a Zep frame and a common Snyder built frame.  From what I read in this tread, the locking fork and lock was the common link..no locking fork, no Zep - someone, please correct me if I'm wrong.   I think the frame mounted lock was manufactured by Wise ...if someone was looking, I bet with a bit of patience, a fork and lock will evetually turn up. I would love to see some photos if anyone had good close photos of just the lock and just the locking fork...

Anyone know what kind of variations in chain guards, rear carriers, front ends, decals and tanks the Pre War Snyder Frames offered?

Thx,
Bart


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## Freqman1 (Jan 24, 2018)

The frame that is the subject of this thread was an internal fork lock like this


 

The later Zeps did use the Wise frame lock like this (pictured on a '38 RMS)


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## Barto (Jan 24, 2018)

Freqman1 said:


> The frame that is the subject of this thread was an internal fork lock like this
> View attachment 743108
> 
> The later Zeps did use the Wise frame lock like this (pictured on a '38 RMS)
> View attachment 743116



Thanks Freqman, super photo, great detail. I've seen the internal locks in different variations, however I'm more keen to the external type (your 2nd photo)...even looks more mechanical....very cool!


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## Barto (Jan 24, 2018)

Freqman1 said:


> The frame that is the subject of this thread was an internal fork lock like this
> View attachment 743108
> 
> The later Zeps did use the Wise frame lock like this (pictured on a '38 RMS)
> View attachment 743116



So, Freqman, you have quite the collection of pretty cool rides and seem to be fairy knowledgable about details - do you have a Pre war Snyder built Zep and do you agree that the one common denominator is the lock that makes it a Zep?  I don't have any real background and simply made the assumption based on what I read in the thread.

Bart


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## Freqman1 (Jan 24, 2018)

Barto said:


> So, Freqman, you have quite the collection of pretty cool rides and seem to be fairy knowledgable about details - do you have a Pre war Snyder built Zep and do you agree that the one common denominator is the lock that makes it a Zep?  I don't have any real background and simply made the assumption based on what I read in the thread.
> 
> Bart



Thanks yes I do have a '37 Zep--I went downstairs to take those pics. Here is my '37 and yes the lock is the common denominator--no lock, no Zep! V/r Shawn


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## Barto (Jan 24, 2018)

Freqman1 said:


> Thanks yes I do have a '37 Zep--I went downstairs to take those pics. Here is my '37 and yes the lock is the common denominator--no lock, no Zep! V/r Shawn
> 
> View attachment 743152 View attachment 743153



Very Nice, yes, I forgot about the elusive/expensive speedo and headlight! This is a super bike...I have the same guard and tank for mine and will be looking for a carrier soon.  Thanks for sharing...one of my dream bikes for sure!


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