# A Question of Value



## OLDTIMER (Dec 16, 2021)

I rely on the reality and fairness of the Cabe family and I am curious to know what the possible sale value is of a 1970 Schwinn Fenderless 5 -speed.
This is somewhat of a basement-find and is in extremely original condition. I am not a Schwinn Sringray expert, but the bike seems to be in incredibly nice condition.
It has a series of scratches on the left cantilever bar from the seat post down to the rear axle flange, but the rest of the bike makes up for it.
I am attaching the photos I have….sorry no close-ups…but what I have…..to a non-expert, it looks all original and a 9 on a 10 scale.
Thanks for any input


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## bobcycles (Dec 16, 2021)

2G+  .... a similar Fastback just sold on ebay for 2700.00..... I prefer the Stingray over over the skinny tire anemic fastbacks too...


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## jammer (Dec 16, 2021)

Very Nice Bike!


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## nick tures (Dec 16, 2021)

super clean very nice bike, stingrays for sure like above !!


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Dec 24, 2021)

It would go fairly quick at $2000 but the right buyer may go more. So many get turned into Krate bikes, this is one reason 1968-1973 3 speed and 5 speed bikes in Kool Red, Kool Lemon and Campus Green, Krate forks, and sissybars, and especially Atom wheels and parts and 6-71 thru 1973 disc brake wheels are so astronomically high.
Most buyers wouldn't notice the difference between the 1996-1999 Krate seats, sissybars and forks until it is too late, but I have been riding and building these bikes since they were new in the 1970s and I can do a side by side comparison of the forks and sissybars. Any almost new or NOS seat, especially those not in 1960s-1980s Schwinn bags sealed are suspect. I mean really, how does a 50 year old seat stay brand new and all the round Persons stickers are clean as a baby's butt after a diaper change? My clothes get dirty in a closed drawer!

Trust me, about 60% of the Apple Krate, Lemon Picker and Pea Picker bikes are probably made from these and not original Krate series at all. 

It is much harder to fake an unrestored Orange Krate since they were the only orange 20" cantilever frames, at least up to 1973.
That is why you see so many perfect "unrestored survivor" Orange Krates popping up out of nowhere.

The newest scam is 1970-1972 coaster Krates. All you need is the appropriate colored Coaster Stingray, a Pixie or Midget Stingray 16" front with a Superior tire. Then obtain a Krate fork, seat chainguard and sissybar, all of which could come from  a 1996-1999 reproduction or the Schwinn parts Department. There are minor differences bur all a seller has to say IF someone calls him out on it is they are Schwinn Approved Restoration parts.

 Schwinn Approved is a whole area I am not going to start on. I have probably offended some people already but I am offended by the things I just listed so hopefully we can be even without a battle of wits or words on this. I would discuss my position, but even an edict from Heaven is not likely to change how I feel. 

I am not against making some money, but when it costs $400 for an Atom hub with no rim or spokes and some sellers are getting $4-$5 a spoke or $1500 for a disc brake wheel that's when it stops becoming a hobby and starts becoming a playground for opportunists and wealthy people investing in the bikes as a way to enlarge their portfolio. Ten years ago I was buying whole Atom brake 16" S-7 wheels for $100 or so, and complete hubs for $50-$75. I bought a bunch of cadmium spokes identical to the factory ones for $14 a set and S-2 spokes were about the same. 

Like everything else this will balloon until it explodes and the bottom drops out of the market. Unfortunately this will probably not happen soon enough for guys like me on disability that need one or 2 parts to finish their childhood bike and cannot pay half their monthly income to buy them.

Enough. I welcome and viewpoints on this, dissenting or in agreement. If my post is better moved to another thread or its own, please help me do it.

I posted a chainguard photo in Stingrays and Musclebikes and the answers I did get told me it may be in the wrong area. Some help there would be cool as I want the thread to be where it will get the most views by those who can ID it. It has been suggested it is possibly European or foreign City Bike. The screened logo is what is throwing me off on that but any help on that is appreciated.
Thanks, Rob


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Dec 24, 2021)

My point is, once it sells it will make a super nice $4000+ Pea Picker, especially if the buyer tries to beat you down below $2000. That is a bummer, but that is the way it works out all too often.


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## Jackpop (Dec 24, 2021)

That’s a beautiful bike and I’d be interested in it if you decide to sell. It would never be turned into anything other than a keeper in my collection.


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## OLDTIMER (Dec 24, 2021)

Thanks Rob,
And yes, I agree with it all. I never did nor to this day like the Krate Stingrays. I am not talking down about them…..just my preference.
I owned a 2-spd Coppertone Stingray for a short while before it was stolen. I got the “hots” at about that time the five-speed fenderless Stingrays we’re coming around. However, my drivers license and cars came around, plus girls no longer smelled “icky” anymore, so the fenderless 5-spd was no longer important and you know the rest. 
I am on the fence about selling it…but I’m not sure yet. I have (3) Schwinn classics remaining with this being the only muscle bike. 
I am into classic cars from an armchair aspect…..and reflects the “cloning” and “recreational” cars that are made…..however just for the opposite….
Nice talking, Rob
Chuck


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Dec 24, 2021)

I had a 1971 Disc Brake Krate in high school in 1974-75. I loved that bike, but I also love all Stingrays and most musclebikes. 
I don't even hate cloning but what I do hate is the fraudulent construction of anything and then gouging unknowing buyers for something that is not what they claim. I see it way too much and try to stop it when I can. It has made me a few enemies but if it saves one person from spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on a cooked up bike they are being lied to about I don't care how many enemies I make in the process.
It is an awesome bike. If you do sell it I hope it goes to a person who will appreciate it for what it is and not dollar signs for what it could be made into.


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## OLDTIMER (Dec 24, 2021)

I am with you again. If the seller represents it as a clone or modified bike, I’m good…. The downside on this is the hustler is tearing up a really distinctive model of bike and I would suspect those who do that and ask ludicrous price would never tell the potential buyer that it’s anything less than “original”…..


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Dec 24, 2021)

I agree 110%


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## TWDay (Dec 28, 2021)

I’m with y’all on this subject. I understand that to some people, bicycles are nothing but a business. And that’s fine. But to clone and misrepresent a bike, car or anything is fraud. Legally and ethically. I to have run into the issue of exorbitant cost while trying to restore an original Stingray. It may never be completed because I may have the money to do it, but I don’t see the value in doing so. This is why some hobbies need to stay hobbies and not get caught up as a business to put the cost of items out of the reach of hobbiests.  

All the best to y’all for 2022.

T. W. Day


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## Sambikeman (Jan 1, 2022)

Its a good thing I kept these 68,s


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