# TOC Seat ID. Any help is appreciated!



## Drosentreter (Jan 28, 2022)

If anyone knows what this seat that I just bought may have came off of, or age of the seat, or what brand the seat is in general. Thanks, Dane


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## stezell (Jan 29, 2022)

Dane I don't know for sure, but it looks European or British to me. I guess the name plate is worn off. Looks like it could be a Leppers brand or Brooks. 
Sean


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## Drosentreter (Jan 29, 2022)

Any idea about age?


stezell said:


> Dane I don't know for sure, but it looks European or British to me. I guess the name plate is worn off. Looks like it could be a Leppers brand or Brooks.
> Sean


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## New Mexico Brant (Jan 29, 2022)

Is it chrome or nickel plated?  It is hard to tell from the images.  Appears to be later than you are thinking, maybe @Velo-dream or @Mercian can comment.


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## Drosentreter (Jan 29, 2022)

New Mexico Brant said:


> Is it chrome or nickel plated?  It is hard to tell from the images.  Appears to be later than you are thinking, maybe @Velo-dream or @Mercian can comment.



I believe it is nickel plated


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## stezell (Jan 29, 2022)

I'm definitely thinking it's not TOC, but like Brant said wait for some of the other guys to chime in.


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## Freqman1 (Jan 29, 2022)

I'm with Sean on this one--European and I think possibly as late as '40s or '50s. Looks like chrome to me but like the others said I'll wait for one of the more knowledgeable members on these to weigh in. V/r Shawn


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## dnc1 (Jan 29, 2022)

I've just had a quick search through some of the 'Brooks Books' (as their catalogues were often called) on the V-CC library website and I would guess it’s not a Brooks saddle. I looked from the late 1890's to the 1950's.
They don't ever appear to have offered a cycle (or motorcycle) saddle with conical shaped compound rear springing.
All of their models seem to have featured straight sided rear springs, as in the examples below.....








...it could of course be from another British manufacturer such as Mansfield or several others.
In my opinion this style was more frequently found in mainland Europe though, so perhaps 'Lepper' (The Netherlands, previously mentioned) or one of the many French saddle firms could be responsible such as 'Brown' or 'Ideale'. There are so many from France!

Any chance of some good, close up,  high resolution images of the name plate and the sides of the saddle leatherwork?


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## Drosentreter (Jan 29, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> I've just had a quick search through some of the 'Brooks Books' (as their catalogues were often called) on the V-CC library website and I would guess it’s not a Brooks saddle. I looked from the late 1890's to the 1950's.
> They don't ever appear to have offered a cycle (or motorcycle) saddle with conical shaped compound rear springing.
> All of their models seem to have featured straight sided rear springs, as in the examples below.....
> View attachment 1559281
> ...



Sadly I don’t have more pictures at the moment. These were the pictures I was provided, and it has not arrived. Thank you for the info!


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## dnc1 (Jan 29, 2022)

The threading of the saddle clamp may also give a clue. If it's metric then you could rule out British or USA origin.
It does look Chrome plated to me in the photos which also suggests a date post 1929, but hard to say really without seeing it for real.


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## pedal4416 (Jan 29, 2022)

It looks like a seat from an older  India or Chinese bike. Like the Flying Pigeon type bikes. Looks _similar_ to the old Brooks b33 too.


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## dnc1 (Jan 29, 2022)

pedal4416 said:


> It looks like a seat from an older  India or Chinese bike. Like the Flying Pigeon type bikes. Looks _similar_ to the old Brooks b33 too.



Similar yes, but a B33 has the rear springs made of twisted wires, and they are straight sided not conical.


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## Mercian (Jan 29, 2022)

Hi.

Thanks for @New Mexico Brant  's shout out, but it's not one that rings a bell for me in the UK or France, but a closer reading of the nameplate may help when it arrives, as has been suggested.

I do like @dnc1  's suggestion on the metric/imperial thread sizes.

Sorry I'm unable to help.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Drosentreter (Jan 29, 2022)

Mercian said:


> Hi.
> 
> Thanks for @New Mexico Brant  's shout out, but it's not one that rings a bell for me in the UK or France, but a closer reading of the nameplate may help when it arrives, as has been suggested.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the suggestions!


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## pedal4416 (Jan 29, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> Similar yes, but a B33 has the rear springs made of twisted wires, and they are straight sided not conical.



Thats why I said similar. Not too many other saddles have the triple rails. Most go from 3-to-2.


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## bikewhorder (Jan 30, 2022)

My gut reaction looking at this is also that it's of Asian origin.  I would guess Japanese or Indian. It's hard to pin down a year because it seems like there was a very long span of designs like this. If i had to guess I'd say 50's-80's.  This is just a wild guess though because like so many collectors on here I've completely ignored this segment of bikes.


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## mongeese (Jan 30, 2022)

Have this seat somewhere with name tag readable- it is some fancy name not bike related. Not TOC. Will attempt to find it soon or remember the name. French I believe -


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## WillWork4Parts (Jan 30, 2022)

Just came across this on eBay...in a completely different search. Similar frame, different rear spring, but hope it helps point in the right direction. 






https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-A-...ddle-OLD-RARE-/154818833221?campid=5335809022


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## dnc1 (Jan 30, 2022)

mongeese said:


> Have this seat somewhere with name tag readable- it is some fancy name not bike related. Not TOC. Will attempt to find it soon or remember the name. French I believe -



Are you perhaps thinking of 'Lamplugh' or 'Lamplugh & Brown'


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## mongeese (Jan 30, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> Are you perhaps thinking of 'Lamplugh' or 'Lamplugh & Brown'



It is a perfume or clothes rich fancy name that may still be around. We all know the name and now is bugging me. Looked for the seat for a minute - will dig it up eventually.


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## mongeese (Jan 30, 2022)

Ok dug into old thread and found it- may be it with different spring pattern maybe not- forgive me as I live in Wisconsin. Search for sale as this is just a picture of the thread.


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## Archie Sturmer (Jan 31, 2022)

The spring arrangement looks like parts are missing or the springs may have been replaced.  The springs look like the dual compound type, compression on top, and expansion on bottom, but no apparent mechanical attachment in between, making the lower expansion portion nonfunctional.

Once one accepts that parts may have been swapped, could an older piece of leather have been matched with a fairly modern seat frame?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/124552689329?campid=5335809022And then some people might like to match new leather with older compound spring seat frames?


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## WillWork4Parts (Jan 31, 2022)

Archie Sturmer said:


> The spring arrangement looks like parts are missing or the springs may have been replaced.  The springs look like the dual compound type, compression on top, and expansion on bottom, but no apparent mechanical attachment in between, making the lower expansion portion nonfunctional.



Agreed...missing the parts like on the example I posted from eBay...the midspan spring "cups" and "U" shaped strut that goes between the upper section and down through to the bottom of the rear springs.


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## Drosentreter (Jan 31, 2022)

Now, a question I have for you all, is what does the hardware look like connecting these two spring actions. If anyone has one of the bolts not in a seat(or in a seat that they can get a good picture of, that would be great. Thanks!


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## Archie Sturmer (Jan 31, 2022)

For simple compression springs (rear), the springs would attach the same as how the likely replacement compound springs already are shown.

Normally, compound spring arrangements that I have seen, have a staple like u-bolt attached to the top rear of the saddle frame and bolts through the compound springs; (there are more complex arrangements).

The simplest attachments to the middle of the springs, in between the compression and expansion ends, would be horizontal bolts and specially shaped washers for the bolt heads inside the springs. These bolts would attach to the lower portion of the seat frame; (note that the bolt holes in the frame would be horizontal, left-right, and not vertical as seen in your example).

How to make a compound spring seat out of a simpler compression-only spring seat is an interesting idea.


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## Drosentreter (Feb 8, 2022)

The seat has finally arrived! I will do my best to try and get pictures tonight. Thank you for all of the help!


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## Drosentreter (Feb 8, 2022)

Tag is illegible, but something I noticed is the oval stamping of a brand. Also illegible with the very faint of letters that I can’t read. Anyone have ideas? What I can tell is the letters are in English.


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## Drosentreter (Feb 8, 2022)

Another pic. Can kind of read it, but still not well. Any ideas on what to try?


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## stezell (Feb 8, 2022)

Dane it looks like it says genuine leather. 
Sean


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## Drosentreter (Feb 8, 2022)

stezell said:


> Dane it looks like it says genuine leather.
> Sean



It does! I was able to read the other side better. Genuine Hide Top specifically is what it says. Any idea on brand from that?(not sure if maybe one company preferred “genuine hide top” instead of “genuine leather”


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## New Mexico Brant (Feb 9, 2022)

With the vintage Asians ones usually have some such script, in English.   With UK and European saddles quality cover material was assumed so no need to stamp it as such.


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## Drosentreter (Feb 9, 2022)

New Mexico Brant said:


> With the vintage Asians ones usually have some such script, in English.   With UK and European saddles quality cover material was assumed so no need to stamp it as such.



Alright thank you! So what are you thinking on value?


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## Drosentreter (Feb 9, 2022)

Drosentreter said:


> Alright thank you! So what are you thinking on value?



Naturally it isn’t worth as much as an English seat, but just curious.


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