# Help regarding 1895 Louis Hoffman TOC bicycle



## 1895Hoffman (Jul 17, 2019)

I am trying to buy my first TOC bicycle and can find almost NO information about the manufacturer.
All I know is the head badge reads "The Hoffman" Cleveland, OHIO.
I am assuming this refers to Louis Hoffman, the French immigrant, who built bicycles from 1895-1899 and then built steam cars after the turn of the century.
Does anyone here have any knowledge, photos or additional information about TOC Hoffman bicycles?
The bicycle is complete and in what I consider to be good condition for its age.
The seller is reluctant to allow me to take photographs of the bicycle so my ability to research it is limited.
Any information from the experts on this forum would be greatly appreciated.


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## stezell (Jul 17, 2019)

Even though he's reluctant in letting you take pics, that's one of the best ways to identify. Good luck on your acquisition and welcome to the group. 

Sean


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## stezell (Jul 17, 2019)

Matt there are several cabers that can assist you @hoofhearted @New Mexico Brant @Jesse McCauley, just to name a few people that are into earlier bikes. Someone else will chime in soon.

Sean


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## Jesse McCauley (Jul 17, 2019)

What is the sellers reasoning? Concerns over making the sale easier?

I’ve seen the name, let me get at my computer and see what comes to the surface. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Freqman1 (Jul 17, 2019)

My first question is why are you trying to buy something you know nothing about? This is usually a good recipe for coming up on the losing end of a transaction. Is it a womens or mens bike. Are the pedals, seat, bars, grips, etc... period correct? What is his reason for not allowing pics? Plenty of nice TOC bikes out there so may be wise to pass on this one. V/r Shawn


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## redline1968 (Jul 17, 2019)

Reluctant= stolen....  beware


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## hoofhearted (Jul 17, 2019)

stezell said:


> Matt there are several cabers that can assist you @hoofhearted @New Mexico Brant @Jesse McCauley, just to name a few people that are into earlier bikes. Someone else will chime in soon.
> 
> Sean




Wish I could br helpful with this machine … 
but I have nothing to offer at this time.

As an aside … there are many 'red flags'
being fluttered by the potential seller.

My thoughts to @1895Hoffman ---------
_*Use caution when considering crossing an 
unseen body of water … unseen because the 
water is obscured with a thin, ice covering ...
and your pockets may be loaded with chunks 
of ignorance.*_

*Been There --- Done That.*

*….. *patric


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## New Mexico Brant (Jul 17, 2019)

Sorry, I don't have much for you.  According to the Wheelmen site the information you cite about a Hoffman operating in Cleveland from 1895-1899 is correct.  There are four other TOC Hoffman manufacturers mentioned as well but none are from Cleveland.  One must use their mfr. list with some caution because at times the dates listed are incorrect and many brands, makers, and bicycle badge names are missed.  

Hopefully someone here may have a catalog or image of another badged Hoffman/Cleveland bike you can use to compare.  If you use the search function one bike pops up that a member speculates is a Hoffman.  It is not clear which Hoffman company he is referring too.

I think most of us will need to see an image of the bicycle you are considering to offer any solid advice.  Otherwise it just like Albert Hofmann experiencing "Bicycle Day."  https://allthatsinteresting.com/bicycle-day-albert-hofmann


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## catfish (Jul 17, 2019)




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## 1895Hoffman (Jul 18, 2019)

Thank you all for your words of wisdom and advice.
I will go back to the seller and explain that I cannot make an offer on the bicycle unless I can take a few photographs.
The bicycle is a mens model.  It is complete with the exception of missing grips but the original wood wheels have been replaced with later metal-clad wood wheels.  The paint appears to be a very dark green with a "paint checked" surface.
Hopefully, I will be able to post some photographs soon.
Thanks again to all!


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## corbettclassics (Jul 18, 2019)

There is lots and lots of information out there on the Hoffman Co. which you are talking about.  It was the Baker Bros who raced their bikes in 1895 ( Cliff and Conn Baker ).

What's hard for me is finding photos of Conn Baker on a Hoffman because it was basically his first year if I'm not mistaken as a professional.  It was until he started making a name for himself later on that you see him on a Columbia bike or an Orient.

Here's a few things I have anyway on Hoffman for 1895.


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## corbettclassics (Jul 18, 2019)




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## corbettclassics (Jul 18, 2019)




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## corbettclassics (Jul 18, 2019)

1895


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## corbettclassics (Jul 18, 2019)




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## corbettclassics (Jul 18, 2019)




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## corbettclassics (Jul 18, 2019)

Conn Baker 1895 - most likely on a Hoffman here.


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## 1895Hoffman (Jul 18, 2019)

Wow.
That's great information......nowhere to be found online!
I wonder if the bicycle I am trying to buy has the triangular reinforced frame?
Have you ever seen a Hoffman TOC bicycle "in the wild" or offered for sale?
Thank you very much for posting this information.


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## corbettclassics (Jul 19, 2019)




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## corbettclassics (Jul 19, 2019)




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## corbettclassics (Jul 19, 2019)

New badge for 1897 ?


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## corbettclassics (Jul 19, 2019)




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## 1895Hoffman (Jul 19, 2019)

Thanks again for the additional information.
It appears that the Hoffman Bicycle Company may have been one of the higher quality manufacturers of the 1890's.
The information provided lists both 150 and 1500 as the number of bicycles produced in the first year of 1895.
The new partnership and factory in 1896 speaks of 6000 bicycles for annual output.
I would love to see ANY photograph of an existing TOC Hoffman bicycle........an 1895 model would be a bonus!


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## 1895Hoffman (Jul 19, 2019)

That is the exact head badge on the bicycle!


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## corbettclassics (Jul 19, 2019)

1895Hoffman said:


> That is the exact head badge on the bicycle!




Hopefully that helps then in figuring out the approx year for the bike with it being 1897 or later and not 1895.
It would be wonderful if it was one of their racers.


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## bricycle (Jul 19, 2019)

Some interesting stuff here. While triangular reinforcing would make a stiffer possibly stronger frame, it does nothing for the race crowd except add unnecessary weight. All makers of cycles during this time period praised the daylight out of their product... whether or not it lived up to it may be a different thing


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## 1895Hoffman (Jul 22, 2019)

I was finally able to get some photos of the TOC Hoffman Bicycle.
Serial # under seat post looks like "4566"?
The original rear hub was a "Morrow"?
The current rear hub is a "New Departure"?
Original Rear tire is "American Roadster"?
Anybody willing to chime in with more comments would be greatly appreciated.


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## Freqman1 (Jul 22, 2019)

I'm certainly no expert but I question bars, pedals, seat, and believe wheelset is incorrect. V/r Shawn


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## 1895Hoffman (Jul 22, 2019)

More photos


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## 1895Hoffman (Jul 22, 2019)

Last photos


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## Freqman1 (Jul 22, 2019)

If that Morrow is the original hub then I’m thinking the bike is about 10 years newer than you think


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## 1895Hoffman (Jul 22, 2019)

Freqman1 said:


> If that Morrow is the original hub then I’m thinking the bike is about 10 years newer than you think



The Hoffman Bicycle Company only made bikes from 1895-1899.
I think the very first Morrow hub was not produced until 1903.....so probably not the original hub.
The seat and pedals also do appear to be later as well.
Not sure about the handlebars.
How would you rate this bike if you discovered it in someone's old garage?


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## Freqman1 (Jul 22, 2019)

That bell or whatever on the handlebars is worth further investigating. The bike itself is a little rough, not original, and has no exciting features. To be fair I’m not a TOC guy but still not something I’d get really excited about. Maybe the others have a different take on this


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## 1895Hoffman (Jul 22, 2019)

Freqman1 said:


> That bell or whatever on the handlebars is worth further investigating. The bike itself is a little rough, not original, and has no exciting features. To be fair I’m not a TOC guy but still not something I’d get really excited about. Maybe the others have a different take on this



I believe the "bell" on the handlebars is an oil container to hold extra oil for the Neverout lantern that was mounted on the bike.
Just a guess.
I really appreciate your input.


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## oldmtrcyc (Jul 29, 2019)

I would be interested in purchasing it, because of the name.
Jim Hoffman


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## New Mexico Brant (Jul 25, 2021)

corbettclassics said:


> Conn Baker 1895 - most likely on a Hoffman here.
> 
> View attachment 1031994
> 
> ...



A bit a literature below showing a Baker/Hoffman relationship:


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