# 1925 Columbia Boycycle



## cds2323 (Oct 28, 2013)

My next project. Found this bike completely spray painted silver about 17 yrs ago. Removed most of the silver but never did anything else. Now I want to build a set of 700c wheels and ride it. The wheels on it are white with red and blue pinstripes, has 26x1.375 Gillette Lightweight war tires w/ ND blackout hubs. Has 1943 and 1944 Boise license plates. Wheels probably changed during the war due to no 28's available. 
  Columbia Boycycle headbadge from Steinfeld Inc. N. Y.. Seat is leather pan with wood frame. Some decals left. Aluminum pedals marked patent pending. Handlebars are California 28x10.
  Anyone know much about Steinfeld Inc.? Seems like Boycycles were mostly tricycles or junior bikes but this is a 20" frame. 













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## cds2323 (Oct 28, 2013)

More photos. 












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## MrColumbia (Oct 28, 2013)

This bike is probably from 1927 based on the 50th anniversary transfers. Possibly a couple of years older. The "C" if that is what it is may indicate 1925. Steinfeld was the primary dealer for all of Columbia's children's bikes, trikes, wagons and other riding toys in the 20's. I have Steinfeld catalogs from these years and the largest bike they have listed is a 14"frame 20" wheeled Camel-back. I wonder if this has the original badge on it? It seems strange to call an adult sized bike a boycycle. Typically Columbia sold everything down to 24" wheeled bikes as juveniles in their own catalog. Smaller than 24" Steinfeld marketed.

there will always be exceptions to every rule. 

Nice aluminum pedals, those are worth their weight in gold.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Oct 28, 2013)

cds2323 said:


> More photos.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Filmonger has the best solution for your wheels:

filmonger  
Finally riding a big boys bike

Join Date
Dec 2010
Location
Dublin Ireland / Cairo GA
Posts
342
 RE: the gap
Oh - I too agree with those guys.....Riding alot makes a big difference -The guys here know alot more about TOC bikes than i do and in my opinion they are the sages of bicycle knowledge. BUT - it is about the gap. If you want to reduce the gap ( even if it is just slightly ) you might consider 28 inch rims from Europe rather than 700c . It is just one of those things when you look at a TOC bike and you see that space left by modern wheeel combo's ... Bugs me. These are just cosmetic and one of a few options rather than 700c rims. Key word here is "option" - this allows one to expand their choice of rim. This said westfeilds were made for stirrup brakes ( not that that matters with TOC bikes as most did not have a break option ) Do they look orig.... No .... Do they look vintage and possibly TOC .... Yea. For 28inch you are limited and this gives you another choice. Going 700c gives you a bigger tire option. This said the Germans and the Dutch still make 28 inch rims and a few tire options. Just string them to your TOC hubs and use the euro tires and that gap is reduced. Do I have 700c with modern tires ....yes I do. The German Westfeilds just make some of my bikes look better. There are a few euro guys on this site and hey can guide you if you are interested in the Dutch & German rims and tires. 

In my opinion my thought process goes in this order. Orig rims... Then custom made wood rims 28 inch made by Stutzman ... Then 700c rims made by ghisallo & cb Italia in Italy. ... Then modern p35's or blunts .... Then the German or Dutch 28's ... This includes the Westfeilds.

Here is the info I post earlier when I first purchase the rims directly from germany. Much cheaper option than Luxlow. Though in my opinion the Luxlow wheel sets aren't that bad of a value when you consider you get rims pre built with hubs and tires. Not a great deal but a fair one.

Well I just recv'd a pair of black westwood rims 28 x 1 1/2 ...width is abot 38mm and most 635 tires should fit. I recv'd mine from Classic-Cycle.de ( http://classic-cycle.de/en/Ready-Spa...-36-holes.html )

I did this as an experiment to see how the rims works as a solution - as well as the tires. So I will take pictures and keep you informed of the process. 

I ordered The Tires Classic Cycle ( white ) 28 x 1 1/2 40x635....( http://classic-cycle.de/en/Tires-Tub...rchparam=Tires ) i will stain these to age the white. Again I will post photos of this process. I also ordered these in grey ( http://classic-cycle.de/en/Tires-Tub...rchparam=Tires ) general tires... http://classic-cycle.de/en/Ready-Spa...-36-holes.html. 

I quite like the look of these rims - the black with gold stripe is very vintage. They are very heavy steel. My only complaint is that when they were packed they needed slightly more care taken. They just covered these in thin cling wrap and thin card board. They really needed a thicker plastic layer - as mine had a small amount of scratching ( should come out with a buff ). I recommend that if anyone orders these they request a more robust packing job.
Last edited by filmonger; Today at 01:01 PM.


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## MrColumbia (Oct 28, 2013)

The more I look the more I'm convinced it is a 1925 Motobike. I am suspicious of the badge. It seems the paint is off in a manner that may have happened without a badge there. I could be wrong.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Oct 28, 2013)

The badge was married to the frame but not a shotgun marriage. :^)


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## cds2323 (Oct 28, 2013)

The paint loss under the badge may have occurred when I was removing the silver. Bike was also disassembled and stored in shed w/o badge for 5 yrs and was banged up a little.  I wasn't being too careful since bike was missing wheels and wasn't worth much (only paid 30-40$). Removed the badge and can see ghosting of badge in blue paint. This badge or one like it (seems Columbia badges are same shape/size) was on it for awhile before being painted silver. This badge was on it and painted silver when I found it. But I've only seen tricycles and junior bikes with the Boycycle badge. 
   The serial number starts with C (or maybe G). Does not look like a D from 1925. I figured the letter is C since the pedals are marked patent pending and the pedals were patented by 1928 (letter G).


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## ridingtoy (Oct 28, 2013)

MrColumbia said:


> Steinfeld was the primary dealer for all of Columbia's children's bikes, trikes, wagons and other riding toys in the 20's. I have Steinfeld catalogs from these years and the largest bike they have listed is a 14"frame 20" wheeled Camel-back.




It would really be neat if you could compile all those pages of children's Columbia wheel goods and run off a few color copies. I'd certainly buy a copy!  Columbia made some of my favorite tricycles with large wheels...some trikes having up to a 24" front wheel and 16" rears! That's a BIG tricycle for not being a chain driven model.

Dave


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## MrColumbia (Oct 28, 2013)

cds2323 said:


> The paint loss under the badge may have occurred when I was removing the silver. Bike was also disassembled and stored in shed w/o badge for 5 yrs and was banged up a little.  I wasn't being too careful since bike was missing wheels and wasn't worth much (only paid 30-40$). Removed the badge and can see ghosting of badge in blue paint. This badge or one like it (seems Columbia badges are same shape/size) was on it for awhile before being painted silver. This badge was on it and painted silver when I found it. But I've only seen tricycles and junior bikes with the Boycycle badge.
> The serial number starts with C (or maybe G). Does not look like a D from 1925. I figured the letter is C since the pedals are marked patent pending and the pedals were patented by 1928 (letter G).




1925 is "C". "G" is 1929.


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## Gary Mc (Oct 28, 2013)

cds2323 said:


> I figured the letter is C since the pedals are marked patent pending and the pedals were patented by 1928 (letter G).




Those aluminum pedals ran 1922 to 1930 on Columbia's and some other Westfield built bikes including Indian, Rambler, & others.  I have seen them with Columbia, Westfield, Rambler, & Indian blocks.  They were also used on CCM bikes for about 30 years and the only replacement blocks I know of are CCM Gibson's out of Canada in red, white, or black with Gibson logo.  I have two pairs of these pedals and Ken is right, they are REALLY hard to find.


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## cds2323 (Oct 28, 2013)

C is 1925.  I was working backwards from N in 1935. I'm guessing letter I was skipped in 1930 which changes where C falls. Thanks glad to know that. 

Still not sure where the Steinfeld badge was found in Idaho back in the day to replace the original. I thought it was only seen on trikes and juniors.  Where did the Mr. Columbia quote about Steinfeld come from in ridingtoys post? Does not show up as a post in this thread to be quoted. 

 Were Columbias sold w/California bars or would they have been added? And didn't motorbike models have truss rods or were some without? Would the badge be Columbia with or without a Model number? Anyway to tell from paint scheme or decals used as decoration on seat post and fork?


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## Gary Mc (Oct 28, 2013)

cds2323 said:


> Were Columbias sold w/California bars or would they have been added? And didn't motorbike models have truss rods or were some without? Would the badge be Columbia with or without a Model number? Anyway to tell from paint scheme or decals used as decoration on seat post and fork?




Cali bars would be added later.  I have the 1922, 1924, 1929-32 Columbia catalogs and all motorbikes in those have truss rods.  1925 Columbia badge for this bike would have had Model # on it & it would be C9.  Your decals I believe were only used in 1925.  Here's the 1924 Columbia catalog page for the same bike one year earlier:


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## cds2323 (Oct 28, 2013)

Strange. Post # 3 just appeared. On safari so checked Tapatalk and it wasn't there. Went back to safari and ran a search for Steinfeld and post # 3 appeared. Wonder why everyone else saw it? Like Bricycles missing for sale posts?

  Anyway the Steinfeld search on the CABE yielded a 1933 camelback 28" wheel bike with a Steinfeld Berkshire badge. Still not convinced this bike should have a Boycycle badge but it appears Steinfeld marketed a 28" bike by the thirties. Google searches for Boycycle only lead to tricycles and sidewalk bikes.


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## cds2323 (Oct 28, 2013)

Thanks Gary for the badge info. If you look close enough the Columbia script can still be seen on the rubber blocks. 

 I like how the use of truss rods is discouraged in the ad copy. Maybe some motorbike frames were sold without truss rods. By the way, were the truss rods attached to the fork at the axle? Or were they removable as a unit separate from the fork?


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## Gary Mc (Oct 28, 2013)

On my 1927 Stutz motorbike (Westfield built) they attach at the axle and are removable as seen in the attached pic.  Westfields did have "anomalies" so who knows, may have been sold without truss rods.  If it had truss rods you should see appropriate scratches on the forks at the fender line where the braces on the rods contact the fork.


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## cds2323 (Oct 28, 2013)

Thanks Gary. Reading your Hartford rebuild, the Stutz and the arch bar over the last year or so are what got me interested in reviving mine. 

Checked the fork and there are small nicks on each side of fork 3/4" from top of forkcrown. Must have had trusses at some point. I'll have to keep an eye out for some 21" truss rods to fit frame. 

I was looking at the seat on the Stutz thinking it might be like the one on my bike. But my nose spring connects above the two chassis rails and yours below the rails. Seems like that makes your rear springs lean a little. Looks like mine could be assembled either way can't tell if it's been reversed or not due to repaint/rust.


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## Gary Mc (Oct 28, 2013)

Always nice to hear those builds helped inspire others.  Thanks.  

Keep in mind the black saddle is not original to my Stutz, I think it is a later saddle I bought off ebay.  Yours is probably original.  I am going with a brown Persons saddle that looks like the one in the 1924 catalog page and was also used on Indian motobikes mid-1920's.  I was told it was also similar to what was originally on the Stutz before it got parted out.


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