# Braze repair



## Benryannj (May 22, 2020)

I'm currently restoring a 1930's Colson rear steer tandem and this one is fighting me all the way.. It's in pretty bad shape and I've been slowly working on it, but the front of the frame was bent from a crash and in the process of straightening one of the braze joints has cracked.

Does anyone have any advice on how to repair this type of frame damage? I've done some MIG welding the past but never brazing so I'm not sure how big a job this would be or whether I should try and find someone close by (I'm in North New Jersey), that could help.

Thanks in advance for any ideas/help!

Ben


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## 49autocycledeluxe (May 22, 2020)

I would melt out the brass and weld it.... I know I could weld it, don't know anything about brazing.


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## WetDogGraphix (May 22, 2020)

Benryannj said:


> I'm currently restoring a 1930's Colson rear steer tandem and this one is fighting me all the way.. It's in pretty bad shape and I've been slowly working on it, but the front of the frame was bent from a crash and in the process of straightening one of the braze joints has cracked.
> 
> Does anyone have any advice on how to repair this type of frame damage? I've done some MIG welding the past but never brazing so I'm not sure how big a job this would be or whether I should try and find someone close by (I'm in North New Jersey), that could help.
> 
> ...



That would be easy to repair by Brazing....


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## 1motime (May 22, 2020)

It was brazed originally.  Once there is brass on the surface ( including the ends of tubing) it is very difficult to weld.  You would have to remove all metal the brass that was fused to and then the joint would be too large.  Take it to a GOOD welder and he can prep and re-braze correctly.  Money well spent if you do not have that type of experience


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## Benryannj (May 22, 2020)

1motime said:


> It was brazed originally. Once there is brass on the surface ( including the ends of tubing) it is very difficult to weld. You would have to remove all metal the brass that was fused to and then the joint would be too large. Take it to a GOOD welder and he can prep and re-braze correctly. Money well spent if you do not have that type of experience




Yep, this is likely the way I’ll go... just need to find someone that can do it..


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (May 22, 2020)

Brazing is very easy to do.
Go to YouTube and learn how to braze.
I use 54% silver solder. In a dark room, use an ultraviolet light, to see the extent of the crack.


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## Benryannj (May 23, 2020)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> Brazing is very easy to do.
> Go to YouTube and learn how to braze.
> I use 54% silver solder. In a dark room, use an ultraviolet light, to see the extent of the crack.




I'm tempted to give it a go with one of the Bernzomatix torches... given the original brazes were brass, should I try and repair with brass brazing or would silver solder be ok?


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## buickmike (May 23, 2020)

My 36 roadmaster had a separation at one brace joint so I took it  my old time radiator shop. He redid bad joint in regular brass then he said he ran out of rod and did the bottom joint at bracket in silver rod . Wasn't cheap but that's all I could do.


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## Sevenhills1952 (May 23, 2020)

Have you ever soldered anything? Two things in common with both...CLEAN!
Easy fix if you have equipment. Simply clean old mess off carefully, grinder, file, etc. Then wire wheel that area. You want nice, clean shiny metal. You want frame clamped so it's perpendicular...an upside down "T". Oxy/acetylene small tip, adjusted flame properly, you'll see when adding oxygen proper clean flame.
(Practice on something similar first)!
You want both tubes heated just enough to start flow, flux coated brazing rods. Once flowing keep it moving all around.
Most important...1) CLEAN 2) JUST enough heat
When tubing JUST barely starts red, melt brass into it and move flame around. 

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## GiovanniLiCalsi (May 23, 2020)

Harris Safety-Silv 56 Brazing Kit 56KPOP
					

A full selection of welding supplies online from welders to plasma cutters to welding helmets and much more online from Harris Welding Supplies




					www.harrisweldingsupplies.com


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## 1motime (May 23, 2020)

Silver solder is not as strong as brass (brazing).  Brass is not as strong as welding.  Committed to brazing since that it how it was originally constructed.  The steel tubing is "contaminated" with brass.  The photos of the needed repair show this is a top tube to seat post tube connection.  Very structural area of the frame and it's a tandem also!  Silver solder is more for trim or more detailed work and is not designed for this amount of stress.  This repair demands as much strength as possible!


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## Sevenhills1952 (May 23, 2020)

I wouldn't solder anything except wires! Brazing is ok and pretty strong. If you've never done it, practice on scrap or better yet a cheap worthless bike. Then test the strength. I made a tall circus bike years ago with tubing, a bender and brazed every joint. It was fine. It has to be clean though.

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## Henryford2 (May 24, 2020)

Silver brazing and silver solder are two different processes and materials. The Harris material posted above has a melting temperature of approx. 1255-1305 F, with a tensile strength of approx. 40,000-50,000 psi. Cleanliness and joint design are important. The short attached article can help in your choice of materials and processes. Enjoy 








						Silver Brazing: Processes & Techniques - Weld Guru
					

Silver brazing, frequently called "hard soldering" or "silver soldering," is a low-temperature brazing process with rods having melting points ranging from




					weldguru.com


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## Rivnut (May 26, 2020)

Have it done correctly.  I took this Elgin to a friend of mine who owns an automotive restoration business.


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## 1motime (May 26, 2020)

Rivnut said:


> Have it done correctly.  I took this Elgin to a friend of mine who owns an automotive restoration business.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is why they call them Pros!


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## Benryannj (May 26, 2020)

Rivnut said:


> Have it done correctly. I took this Elgin to a friend of mine who owns an automotive restoration business.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Looks like he did a great job.. is he located near north NJ? 


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## Rivnut (May 26, 2020)

Kansas City, Kansas.  
I'd bet that anyone who does auto restorations can braze.   Look for someone in your area who has the four year auto restoration degree from McPherson College, McPherson, Kansas.  One of Jay Leno's go-to places; he's a big contributor and supporter.  Google it.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (May 26, 2020)

Silver solder is stronger than brazing, when you have capillaries to fill and when you consider the lower temperature, it’s a better way to go. I have been silver soldering for many years.


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## Andrew Gorman (May 26, 2020)

Just find a bicycle frame builder near you.  They will know what to do and be sympathetic towards your project.


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## ArtOfDisGuy (Jun 4, 2020)

Super simple to braze, or solder, specially if you have any welding experience at all,
A good stainless brush set is key, various sizes and used only for final cleaning,, and make sure it's clean, I use acetone and tack cloth for delicate pieces,
When in doubt practice, good skill to have☺
Or option 2 Radiator recore shop, one specializing in tank repairs and or custom rads , race shop etc.


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## 1motime (Jun 4, 2020)

It's been two weeks.  I hope that crack got fixed


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## SirMike1983 (Jun 5, 2020)

I had a very old Phillips bicycle repaired by brazing through a local shop that specializes in motorcycle fabrication and repair. The guys in that field often have a range of skills - welding, brazing, soldering, and they're familiar with frame construction.


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## 1817cent (Jun 20, 2020)

I have a Pogo saddle that was brazed where it broke right by the top bend on the strap spring.  The repair looks ok by my eyes.  Question;  how much strength has been lost because of the braze weld?  I have never ridden it and dont want to cause another break.


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## Henryford2 (Jun 21, 2020)

1817cent said:


> I have a Pogo saddle that was brazed where it broke right by the top bend on the strap spring.  The repair looks ok by my eyes.  Question;  how much strength has been lost because of the braze weld?  I have never ridden it and dont want to cause another break.



From my experience with silver brazing, if done correctly (joint design, cleaning, flux, flame type, etc., etc.) the brazed joint can have a tensile strength greater than the parent metal. In a destructive test the metal will tear at the brazed joint, but the brazed joint remains intact. Difficult to answer your question not knowing how the repair was made. Just my humble opinion.


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## 1817cent (Jun 21, 2020)

Thanks, that is alot more than i knew!


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## Kickstand3 (Jun 21, 2020)

Benryannj said:


> I'm currently restoring a 1930's Colson rear steer tandem and this one is fighting me all the way.. It's in pretty bad shape and I've been slowly working on it, but the front of the frame was bent from a crash and in the process of straightening one of the braze joints has cracked.
> 
> Does anyone have any advice on how to repair this type of frame damage? I've done some MIG welding the past but never brazing so I'm not sure how big a job this would be or whether I should try and find someone close by (I'm in North New Jersey), that could help.
> 
> ...



@kratatoa


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## 1motime (Jun 21, 2020)

Kickstand3 said:


> @kratatoa



Has this crack been repaired yet?  Lots of work to be done after this.


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## Benryannj (Jun 23, 2020)

Not fixed yet... but have made some progress with the rest of it.







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## 1motime (Jun 23, 2020)

Looks good!  That is going to be a big heavy roller!


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