# My Pre 1942 Hercules  Garage Find and ID help



## Happy Hooligan (May 7, 2013)

Hi,

I found this old Hercules at an estate sale last week and couldn't pass it by for $20.00.

I'm discovering it's a hodge podge of parts put together on the bike.   I'm trying to date and find out as much as I can about the bike before I tear it down and restore it back to riding condition.     What I know is the frame is a Hercules.  It was made before 1942 since that's the last Los Angeles Bicyle License on it.  

Here's some pics...


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## Happy Hooligan (May 7, 2013)




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## SirMike1983 (May 7, 2013)

The more I look at this, the more I'm inclined to say 1930s era is right on. The fork and lugs look right for the 1930s. Even with the mixture of parts, most seem to jive with pre-war, 1930s era. The brake, again, looks like a pre-war Model D with that arm. It's a mixture of parts, but certainly an old build. I'd be inclined to think it might have been a training bike for someone who raced track but wanted a road-going practice machine. I don't think you'd race track with a coaster brake, but this set up sure would come in handy as an on-road training machine. Even if not original, someone did this a long time ago.

I have a 1935 Hercules Model G. I'll need to check the serial number and compare it to yours.


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## Happy Hooligan (May 7, 2013)

thanks.  Is there a master list of hercules numbers and years?  I'd love to find out what year my frame is from.  When did they start welding the back stays on a frame?   Mine is bolted on.


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## SirMike1983 (May 8, 2013)

Happy Hooligan said:


> thanks.  Is there a master list of hercules numbers and years?  I'd love to find out what year my frame is from.  When did they start welding the back stays on a frame?   Mine is bolted on.




There is no comprehensive list of Hercules serial numbers, at least that I know of. Mine is XT9945, which seems to be a little different, but then 2 bikes don't make a chart. We likely wouldn't be able to tell a pattern unless we had at least a handful or more of pre-war bikes. 

The interesting thing is that prior to WWII, Hercules Cycle was a major exporter of bicycles from Britain. I'd be interested in numbers comparing the importation of Raleigh vs Hercules into the US, but my suspicion is that Hercules outpaced Raleigh sending bikes to the US before the 1940s. It's funny too because people in the US basically have come to associate an "old, English bike" with Raleigh. I've heard people call any old three speed a "Raleigh", even if it's another brand. My belief is that is strictly a product of the post-war era, and that if you go even older, you see more Hercules than Raleigh.


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## fat tire trader (May 8, 2013)

I have two prewar Hercules bikes. One of them has bolt on stays like yours. The other one has the original receipt from 42. 
http://www.fattiretrading.com/42herc.html
I will check its serial number later today to compare.


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## fat tire trader (May 8, 2013)

This thread should be moved to the light weight section.


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## ThreeSpeedHub (May 9, 2013)

*Possible help with the Hercules*

Hi, there is a 1937 Hercules catalog in pdf format online at http://threespeedhub.com/catalogues/ search by years 1930-1939 and think it is on second page.  As to the size, by 1929 they were the largest cycle manufacturer in the world, with Raleigh not going on to take that mantle for a while.  Hope it helps.  There is also a 50's Hercules Catalog in there.


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## 1959firearrow (May 9, 2013)

If you decide against the handle bars in the restoration let me know! I have a 1950s Hercules Royal Prince 3 speed. Back before the buyout. Nicest riding bike I've ever ridden that didn't have a springer. Great quality. Hope to see the restoration progress and hopefully you can find more info!


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## Andrew Gorman (May 9, 2013)

Neat bike!  With the bolt on chainstays it was probably originally a roadster with a chaincase.  There is a 1938 Raleigh catalog at:
http://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_raleigh_cat_us38.html
that will give you something to compare it to.  Are the wheels 26 or 28 inch? For about the price of a loaded ballooner these bikes were very well built and competent machines.


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## fat tire trader (May 9, 2013)

I have a 39 catalog available to view
http://www.fattiretrading.com/herculescatalog.html


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## Happy Hooligan (May 9, 2013)

Andrew Gorman said:


> Neat bike!  With the bolt on chainstays it was probably originally a roadster with a chaincase.  There is a 1938 Raleigh catalog at:
> http://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_raleigh_cat_us38.html
> that will give you something to compare it to.  Are the wheels 26 or 28 inch? For about the price of a loaded ballooner these bikes were very well built and competent machines.




Thanks everyone for the more info.  I gave it a good wd40 for right now before I try to remove any bolts yet to take it apart.   

The wheels are 28 inches on it.  

I don't know it helps but my bike is black and I can see trace red lines on it.   I saw in the 39 catalog they were black with a red and gold lines.   Might help date it, but probably all bikes from Hercules were black with red lines...

The wheels spin really easy I noticed, the chain is stuck, but that's an easy replacement.


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## SirMike1983 (May 10, 2013)

Happy Hooligan said:


> Thanks everyone for the more info.  I gave it a good wd40 for right now before I try to remove any bolts yet to take it apart.
> 
> The wheels are 28 inches on it.
> 
> ...





Some had green lines, but red and gold box striping was common on English bikes back then. However, the fact that you can get some of the stripes to appear still is good. The stripes are usually the first thing on the finish to go.


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## Happy Hooligan (May 12, 2013)

just dismantled most of it today.  Man some of those nuts and bolts were on there!   I also noticed none of my english or metric really fit most of the nuts perfectly.   Did you use a different size back in the day?

I figured out how to remove those pedals from the pedal shaft.  (I've never worked on an old bike.  1950's are the oldest I've worked on.)

What tool do I use to remove the bottom crack case?  I've removed the one side but looks like I need a special tool for the other side?

Anyone recomment a good degreaser that won't harm paint?   I haven't gotten to the either the front or rear hubs.   Do you think I should replace all the spokes or try to save them?   They don't too bad and look like they're all there.  

More as I get further on it.


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## SirMike1983 (May 12, 2013)

First question: They could be Whitworth sized small parts, use what fits closest on them. A good adjustable wrench is a great tool to have on these. 

Second:the bottom bracket should be 3 piece. Once the cranks are off, you will have a spindle and two cups. One cup is removable easily and the other is not easily removed. The latter is known as a "fixed" cup and is not removed unless entirely necessary. You should be able to disassemble and lubricate the bottom bracket opening up just the removable side. That fixed cup should stay put unless it is damaged.

Third: I like to use Formula 409 and WD 40 to remove old grease. 

Fourth: if the spokes are solid, intact, tight, and not damaged keep the wheels as they are. Put some penetrating oil in the joint between each nipple and each spoke. Let it sit in there a long while. You will want to be able to turn the nipples if you go to true the wheels later. You don't want frozen spokes.


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## Happy Hooligan (May 12, 2013)

Thanks.   I think I used my adjustable wrench for pretty much the whole operation.

I'll leave that last crack case cover.   Does that nipple opening above the removable crankcase cover have something to close it?  Mine is just open and maybe it's missing something.

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go along.   I even started to clean up the nickel plate a little on the handlebars.   Turns out all that dark metal has shinny metal underneith it...


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## Happy Hooligan (May 17, 2013)

well I've been working on taking off the rust, cleaning the grease and other little bits, but those pedals must take a super thin wrench.  Everything I have is too wide.   What do you guys use to take the pedals off?   Do they sell a really thin adjustable wrench?


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## Hermanator3 (May 17, 2013)

*Pedal wrench*

You can purchase a pedal wrench that would probably work. Park Tools makes a beauty though pricey.  Or you could take it to a bike shop & they could remove them for a few bucks.


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## 1959firearrow (May 17, 2013)

Find a wrench that will fit the pedal stud and grind it down if your in a pinch. That worked for me before I lucked into a thinner but strong set of wrenches.


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## OldRider (May 17, 2013)

I'm almost 100% certain your pedals are Phillips, I have a pair that look identical, they were original on my 1936 CCM.


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## Happy Hooligan (May 17, 2013)

Thanks.  I'll see what I can find.   Once I get them taken off and cleaned up I'll see if they have a maker mark on them.   I got the crank hub back together tonight but it feels a little grindy so I'm going to open it back up and see what's going on.  I think there were 11 barrings per side.   Does that sound right?   I hope I didn't lose one.   I think I did on those tiny ones in the headset.   Does anyone know what size those are as I'll have to stop by the bike shop and pick up a few.


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## fat tire trader (May 18, 2013)

Happy Hooligan said:


> Thanks.  I'll see what I can find.   Once I get them taken off and cleaned up I'll see if they have a maker mark on them.   I got the crank hub back together tonight but it feels a little grindy so I'm going to open it back up and see what's going on.  I think there were 11 barrings per side.   Does that sound right?   I hope I didn't lose one.   I think I did on those tiny ones in the headset.   Does anyone know what size those are as I'll have to stop by the bike shop and pick up a few.



If you replace a few balls in your bottom bracket or headset, it may not roll well. It is best to replace all of the balls at the same time.


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## fat tire trader (May 18, 2013)

OldRider said:


> I'm almost 100% certain your pedals are Phillips, I have a pair that look identical, they were original on my 1936 CCM.



Hercules made their own pedals which are very similar to Phillips.


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## Happy Hooligan (May 18, 2013)

picked up some of those tiny ball bearings at the local bike shop and a park pedal wrench.   

Those Pedals are almost as complicated as a hub!   Lots of parts.   

what cleans the rubber foot pieces the best?   Simple Green?

I got the main frame back together tonight and it looks pretty good.  I wish I could have gotten a better polish on the handlebars but I think that's the best they're going to get without sandblasting them and re nickel.

When it comes the crank case, it has the grease hole on the top left.  Is it missing a cap or cork or something for that or is it just left open?


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## fat tire trader (May 19, 2013)

Happy Hooligan said:


> picked up some of those tiny ball bearings at the local bike shop and a park pedal wrench.
> 
> Those Pedals are almost as complicated as a hub!   Lots of parts.
> 
> ...



It should have a hinged cap.


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## Happy Hooligan (May 19, 2013)

fat tire trader said:


> It should have a hinged cap.




Do you have a picture of what it's suppose to look like and know where to order one?


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## Happy Hooligan (May 19, 2013)

Here's the two pedals.   One ready to go and the other one needing cleaned up.





Turns out they're not matching... just like this bike.   One is I assume from Hercules, the other one is a Torrington.




Here's the frame so far.


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## Happy Hooligan (May 19, 2013)

here's the grease access hole.   



can someone take a photo of what it's suppose to look like.


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## Happy Hooligan (May 20, 2013)

so where do I find a tire that will fit the rims I have?  The tire is basically one tire and tube built together.   The rim is way to short for a modern tire to set in it?   

Do I have to buy modern rims for this bike?


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## Happy Hooligan (May 22, 2013)

what do you guys recommend on the spokes?   Do I naturally replace them since they're old, rusty and need tighted up or do I keep them and tighten them up and hope they don't snap?

What's the usual on an old bike?   And if I do replace them, what do I replace them with?   I have 36 of them about 12" long.   It would make it a lot easier to clean those hubs if they were not there....


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## 1949Gazelle (Jan 1, 2021)

My very rare late 20s Hercules built export "Concurrent" frameset. Same geometry as your frame. Building this one as a pathracer.


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## 1949Gazelle (Jan 1, 2021)

NOS 44T crankset for military bikes. I believe matches what was used on a couple of Dutch East Indies civilian brands.


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## manuel rivera (Jan 1, 2021)

SirMike1983 said:


> The more I look at this, the more I'm inclined to say 1930s era is right on. The fork and lugs look right for the 1930s. Even with the mixture of parts, most seem to jive with pre-war, 1930s era. The brake, again, looks like a pre-war Model D with that arm. It's a mixture of parts, but certainly an old build. I'd be inclined to think it might have been a training bike for someone who raced track but wanted a road-going practice machine. I don't think you'd race track with a coaster brake, but this set up sure would come in handy as an on-road training machine. Even if not original, someone did this a long time ago.
> 
> I have a 1935 Hercules Model G. I'll need to check the serial number and compare it to yours.



That model d and stand point to late 30s you're  right


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