# Info needed - is this a Diamant Pista?



## indycycling (May 19, 2022)

I visited an 80+ year old prior Schwinn shop owner of over 30+ years here locally in Indianapolis last week and picked up some nice pieces from his old shop. These were mostly Stingray related including some literature. 

He tells me his wife raced track at the Nationals back in the day and pulls out this pista frame and parts - pics attached as found. She put some Schwinn decals on it, but he thought it was a Diamant. 

It's got Stronglight cotter crankset, really cool roller bearing bottom bracket bearings/cups and looks to be English thread by the BB width, has Campy large flange hubs with fixed rear and Berthet Lyotard platform track pedals. 

I think this is a 60's bike or a little older based on his recalling when she was racing it. 

Any assistance here on identification would be greatly appreciated! I'm gonna clean it up, remove the improper Schwinn decals, stretch some sew ups on it and put back together at least for now. I would love to restore this one as the paint is gone, but want to understand what I've got first - thanks!


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## Schwinny (May 19, 2022)

Kinda looks interesting.
It's the frame you want to know about?
I would recommend pics of the frame and it's construction.
The parts all seem to be marked.
There are a few real good frame construction identification folks here but I'll bet they'd like better pics.
I'd like to know also.. for the old noggin data base.
My noggin base seems remember those RWB bands are  applied white bands facing each other so that part is probably a given.
@juvela


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## indycycling (May 19, 2022)

Schwinny said:


> Kinda looks interesting.
> It's the frame you want to know about?
> I would recommend pics of the frame and it's construction.
> The parts all seem to be marked.


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## indycycling (May 19, 2022)

Schwinny said:


> Kinda looks interesting.
> It's the frame you want to know about?
> I would recommend pics of the frame and it's construction.
> The parts all seem to be marked.
> ...



the bands decal around the seat tube says Schwinn and is not proper for the frame as I noted in the original post, applied by his wife before she raced the bike. Thanks


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## juvela (May 19, 2022)

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if you have investigated the Diamant marque you quickly learned that there are two unrelated

one is Dutch and one is German

because of the lug pattern employed here and the tricolour bands around the tubes in the German national colours would suspect the cycle to be the Diamant from that land

the roller bearing bottom bracket assembly is quite something.  these are of very high quality and rare in my experience. produced in versions for use in both cottered and cotterless chainsets. mfr catalogue illustration of the cotterless edition -






the headset appears to be integral.  integrals were disappearing by the 1960's so the frame may be somewhat earlier & appears so.

the machine's Stronglight chainset appears to be a model termed the Nr. 54 -





pedals are Lyotard model Marcel Berthet M23 -





you will be able to retrieve a date from the axle locknuts of the machine's Campag hubs -





forum member    @non-fixie  is very knowledgeable as to cycles from the low countries and will be able to give you more and better information.  have sent him a message regarding the machine.

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## non-fixie (May 20, 2022)

Nice find! I am not very familiar with the German Diamant brand, and I am not really into fixies either, as you may have already guessed. But I do like the purposeful look of vintage track bikes and especially the stories that come with them.

What does it say on the bottom bracket shell? The seems to quite some text. A name, perhaps?

There is a German website dedicated to Diamant, which has a page on (all?) their track models. You might be able to recognize some of the details if your bike is indeed a German Diamant.

There is a German classic bike forum that might be worth a visit: Rennmaschinen bis 1990. One of their members, "martl", also regularly posts on Bikeforums C&V. He may be able to point you in the right direction.


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## indycycling (May 20, 2022)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> if you have investigated the Diamant marque you quickly learned that there are two unrelated
> 
> ...



Awesome info, thanks so much!  I will check the dates on axle nuts after work - thanks again!


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## indycycling (May 20, 2022)

non-fixie said:


> Nice find! I am not very familiar with the German Diamant brand, and I am not really into fixies either, as you may have already guessed. But I do like the purposeful look of vintage track bikes and especially the stories that come with them.
> 
> What does it say on the bottom bracket shell? The seems to quite some text. A name, perhaps?
> 
> ...



thanks as well! I can't make out the stampings on the bottom bracket shell yet. I will try to clean it up some and/or take a pencil lift. Let you know what I find after work. I'll check out some of the other pages you recommend as well to continue researching it's heritage, thanks!


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## juvela (May 20, 2022)

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wonderful information from    @non-fixie     😃 

forgot to mention above -

expect frame tubes and threading to be of BSC dimension

26.8mm diameter down and seat tubes

25.4mm diameter top tube

BSC threading for steerer and bottom bracket shell

bottom bracket shell likely 68mm in width although there are some vintage track ones which are 65mm

original rear spacing likely 110mm - would expect this dimension for over the locknuts of the rear wheel

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## indycycling (May 20, 2022)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> wonderful information from    @non-fixie     😃
> 
> ...




Thanks again - the rear drop out spacing is 116mm and matches the rear Campy hub width outside the lock nuts. Bottom bracket measures 66mm wide.


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## indycycling (May 20, 2022)

non-fixie said:


> Nice find! I am not very familiar with the German Diamant brand, and I am not really into fixies either, as you may have already guessed. But I do like the purposeful look of vintage track bikes and especially the stories that come with them.
> 
> What does it say on the bottom bracket shell? The seems to quite some text. A name, perhaps?
> 
> ...








Very interesting - I can now make out "BRITISH MADE" script, a serial number above it that looks like maybe "H 57130" and another stamping in the middle maybe "CB VSTAN"  - assuming British Made this isn't a Diamant now?  

Any further ideas here? I also looked at the German track bikes and this doesn't look like them, fork crowns and lugs are all very different

Thanks all!


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## indycycling (May 20, 2022)

Couple more pics of the decals.  The seat tube decal was added by wife and incorrect as Schwinn, but a kinda close match to the other tri color decals.  Are those other tri color decals original?  Now that I've discovered the bottom bracket is stamped British Made, thanks


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## juvela (May 20, 2022)

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frameset -

everything suggests a pre-1960's birth date; combination of:

integral headset

lubrication fitting on bottom bracket shell

lug pattern

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the web site linked by non-fixie above has a gallery for a German Diamant track machine dated 1955









						Diamant Bahnrad Modell 177 Baujahr 1955
					

Bahnrennrad, Modell 177: RH 52cm, 55cm, 58cm und 61cm hoch, nahtlose Präzisionsstahlrohre, Außenlötung, Bahnreifen mit Leichtmetallfelgen, 3-Arm-Keilgetriebe, verstellbarer Vorbau, Schwarz, oder Buntlackierung, blanke Teile verchromt, Gewicht ca. 9kg



					www.diamantrennradkult.de
				




nothing matches subject machine: different lugs, crown, seat stay treatment and a non-integral headset

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thank you for the additional images

a British produced shell does not necessarily indicate a British produced frame

possible frame bits may be from Davis, Haden or Brampton, for example

sometimes there is a marking on the underside of the crown as seen on an EKLA here -





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if the integral headset exhibits floating u-races with 1/8" balls that would be suggestive of a Brampton product

---

British frame bits can occasionally indicate a frame produced in another British linked nation such as Canada, Australia, United States, Union of South Africa

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## indycycling (May 20, 2022)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> frameset -
> 
> ...



thanks much for the advice on the BB, makes sense.  There are no markings on the fork crown, top or bottom. I believe the headset has loose balls only, no races


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## juvela (May 20, 2022)

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here is the best image i have been able to locate illustrating a Brampton integral headset with floating u-races (u-races are not retainers)





the locknut on the cycle's headset is clearly a British product, of course it may not be original to the machine...

---

pattern of lugs and shell resemble the Brampton pattern called "Hawk"

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## indycycling (May 22, 2022)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> if you have investigated the Diamant marque you quickly learned that there are two unrelated
> 
> ...


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## indycycling (May 22, 2022)

Juvela 
1958 on the Campy hub lock nuts - thanks!


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## juvela (May 22, 2022)

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minor note on shell width -

was at first slightly surprised by the sixty-six mm figure

then a wee switch in that which passeth for me "braine" clicked over

there must have been gazillions of Brit produced shells which are nominally sixty-eight mm which are in actuality sixty-six and one half

have long assumed that this is because it is a fractionally convenient dimension

the machine's shell likely began life at sixty-six and one half and became sixty-six following facing

"a feller's got watch them tricky Avalonians ever' minute!"

now that we seem to have established that frameset is of likely Anglophone origin we should be eligible for some sage counsel from none other than member      @dnc1 

have also sent a message to the most illustrious member     @MauriceMoss 


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## indycycling (May 25, 2022)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> here is the best image i have been able to locate illustrating a Brampton integral headset with floating u-races (u-races are not retainers)
> 
> ...



One of the floating races like above is stamped Brampton!


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## indycycling (May 28, 2022)

With your assistance and some from the great guys at Bike Forums, I've confirmed this is a Wastyn track bike.  I got great news from Scott Wastyn after sending him a bunch of pics. He's 4th generation and still building bikes in Chicago.  Oscar Wastyn built the first Paramounts for Schwinn. 

From Scott - I would definitely lean towards a Wastyn built , serial numbers that we used had no specific meaning. If you wanted your birthday, that was the serial number, you chose what the serial number was. Looks like a good find.

I've asked him to estimate the age of the frame, stay tuned, but I"m stoked!


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## indycycling (May 28, 2022)

Here is the bike detailed and back together. I wet sanded the frame with 8K, compound polished it, and waxed the paint; cleaned and polished all the other parts; greased the headset and bottom bracket and reassembled.  These Campy wheels spin like they are brand new, pretty amazing. A friend is sending me some vintage gum wall sew ups and it should be about done.  I'd like to get a correct period type seat post and maybe a Brooks leather saddle. 

I now believe the tri color band decals are Wastyn and that Bill's wife added the "Hat in the Ring" and head tube Schwinn decals.  They will certainly remain as part of the cool history.  

The blue bike is a 30's Oscar Wastyn Special and it's very similar to mine, same lugs and tri color decals.


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## GTs58 (May 28, 2022)

Is that the one Coby R was asking about last week? 

Here's @cyclingday 's, 1948?














						OK, who collects early racing bikes? | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

Bumptime!




					thecabe.com


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## juvela (May 28, 2022)

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thanks for these updates

great to read you have been able to get it sorted

now that you have it all cleaned up and reassembled you could take it back  to the gentleman you got it from so he could see it - probably a fond memory of his wife

you could ask him about the Diamant name

it just didn't come out the aether; there must be some reason it was in his memory...

there is likely to be a machine of this name in his memory, even if not in his physical possession

---

note that the head lugs of your machine and those of the blue example are not identical

the flares to accommodate the integral headset on your bicycle are noticeably squarish while those on the blue are quite rounded/smooth


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## indycycling (May 28, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> Is that the one Coby R was asking about last week?
> 
> Here's @cyclingday 's, 1948?
> 
> ...



Yep I shared w Coby to see if Ray had any ideas - thanks!


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## indycycling (May 28, 2022)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> thanks for these updates
> 
> ...



Thanks Juvela, you've been awesome helping me determine what this is.  Agree, the lugs are not identical, but the side slots are the same and they are both different from the keyhole style used on the Paramounts.  The fork crown on mine is the same style used on the Paramounts though. 

I already called the previous owner, he's not tech savy, I wanted to send him some pics, but he can't text. I'm planning to go visit him so he can see it again 

I'll ask him about Diamant and Wastyn and see what might resonate.  

I"m hoping Scott W can give me some more insight into the age of this bike.


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## GTs58 (May 28, 2022)

What are the stampings in the center? Looks like a letter stamping and then B111


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## indycycling (May 28, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> What are the stampings in the center? Looks like a letter stamping and then B111


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## GTs58 (May 28, 2022)

I wonder how many times that BB has been stamped over the years. 😃


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## indycycling (May 28, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> I wonder how many times that BB has been stamped over the years. 😃
> 
> View attachment 1635103



What you have circled is the word "BRITISH" and it also says "MADE" - these are both stamped in a curved pattern.  In the middle of those stampings it's hard to make out but I can read what looks like CB or 8 then V followed by "STAN" on the right. Up top is either the letter H or I followed by 571, then what appears to be a double stamped 3 and U or 0.

Scott Wastyn indicated there was no rhyme or reason to any of the bottom bracket stampings, that you could have anyting you wanted including your name, birthdays, random numbers.  It appears to be the case here other than British Made from the BB shell supplier.

I will take a pencil rub and see what comes out on paper from all of these stampings, but based on what Scott says, they won't really mean anything.  

Only thing that's dated are the Campy locknuts at '58, but I'm thinking this frame is a bit older, just a hunch.


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## Schwinny (May 28, 2022)

indycycling said:


> Here is the bike detailed and back together. I wet sanded the frame with 8K, compound polished it, and waxed the paint; cleaned and polished all the other parts; greased the headset and bottom bracket and reassembled.  These Campy wheels spin like they are brand new, pretty amazing. A friend is sending me some vintage gum wall sew ups and it should be about done.  I'd like to get a correct period type seat post and maybe a Brooks leather saddle.
> 
> I now believe the tri color band decals are Wastyn and that Bill's wife added the "Hat in the Ring" and head tube Schwinn decals.  They will certainly remain as part of the cool history.
> 
> ...



Being very interested in these old Schwinn frames, and the later models that also have the bands. I cant remember any Ive seen that had the bands facing any way other than white to white. Or any with bands on the fork. Notice the blue version in your last group of pics. White to White.
Just musing, and adding to the anomalies section.
Crazy it would have a British BB shell _and_ Headset. And not just headset, Head. That type of headset is most often seen with British style clip stem steerers, which also makes everything a bit more complicated.
I have two British bikes with this style headset. One is an earlier floating race cup Brown and Wilkes, and one is a captured Brompton race cup like this one. Both came with a clip stem, but a swedge bolt stem works also.

There is no picture of it, but does your fork steerer tube have a "T" cut into the top threads area?
The way your headset bottom crown race sits up high, you can see that at one time there was a race seated on the crown head as is usual. Is everything just mocked up or is that the way it was? Even the four cup headsets on the British bikes have the lower race seated on the crown. Looks like something doesn't fit.


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## juvela (May 28, 2022)

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yes, headset has appearance of being reworked at some point

locknut for example appears decades later than frameset

Brampton offered three or four stock locknut patterns at this time

the locknut currently being worn is not one of them

---

btw -

Brampton had an odd manner of catalogueing their head parts

have one of their trade publications from ca. 1940

head parts are listed by category/function rather than as sets

there is a page for locknuts

there is page for washers and spacers

there is a page for fork crown races

there is a page for adjustable races

and there is page for head races

no sets are shown!

it is as if they are saying "Please feel free to mix and match boys and girls!"


-----


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## indycycling (May 28, 2022)

Schwinny said:


> Being very interested in these old Schwinn frames, and the later models that also have the bands. I cant remember any Ive seen that had the bands facing any way other than white to white. Or any with bands on the fork. Notice the blue version in your last group of pics. White to White.
> Just musing, and adding to the anomalies section.
> Crazy it would have a British BB shell _and_ Headset. That type of headset is most often seen with British style clip stem steerers, which also makes everything a bit more complicated.
> I have two British bikes with this style headset. One is an earlier floating race cup Brown and Wilkes, and one is a captured Brompton race cup like this one. Both came with a clip stem, but a swedge bolt stem works also.
> ...



The bike came totally apart. The bottom crown race needs to be pressed back where it belongs. This was a quick test fit reassembly


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## Schwinny (May 29, 2022)

Slept on it awhile. the frame has become a bug for me. A challenge really. Mainly because for the last year Ive been pouring over the VCC Library finding the history of the two British Club Bikes Ive been restoring. Pulling threads, I've read  histories and seen videos and hundreds of bikes. I've been browbeat by several VCC Marque enthusiasts as "that yank with one of our old boys" to get it right if I was doing it at all. These are many times all old guys that cant even ride anymore. Some live amongst their extensive collection of old European bikes.

First, I imagine it very strange that any American bike builder would be using a British BB shell or Head tube at any time. There really is no reason to, specialty shop our not. There is no advantage to the BB Shell. On the finished bike, no-one would know the difference in any way other than to be told. Same goes for the head tube. The headset being unique is one thing, but there is no racing advantage I can see. If you don't want cages around the bearings, simply dont use cages. Add 2 balls and reassemble without cages, Ive done it, it works fine.

Second, if it was in-fact made here in the US, it would have to be before 1938-9' or after 1945. The war was going on in Europe and ships were being sunk. There were no cargo planes. Anything going to and fro was not bicycle parts. In those days, there were very few imported anything, except high end luxury items, used as status. I cant see standard Brompton shells as status.

Third, the direction and placement of the decals actually means something, it was not haphazard or put on at the whimsey of personal choice. Unless of course the owner put them ALL on. If the old guy said his wife put them on, I'll bet she put all of them on.

Fourth, to be serious about where it was made, you just have to have the frame metal tested. 531 and its early and later derivatives are High Manganese types. American bikes were using types of chrome Moly. These are two different directions to get similar results. Reynolds stopped 531 bicycle tube production in 1939 and didn't continue until after the war.

There were actually companies in England like Phillips (Phillips was a parts only company until after the war) that sold entire bike frame kits in a box for someone to fully make their own bikes. This would have been pre and post war only for shipment to the US though. The brazing material was thin brass ribbon, laid in recess' in the tube or lugs, assembled with a flux paste for ease of assembly before heating. Very little if any brass oozed outside the lugs. From what few Ive seen of American lugged bike assembly, the tubes seem to have been fluxed and slid together with the brazing material naturally pulled into the joint with heat from the outside of the joint. Same way copper plumbing is assembled. This leaves a spot or more of brazing material outside the lug on the tubes to be filed down and smoothed out.

My vote is that it is a European frame, later done up with American bits. In 2022 we are too far away from its actual production date for anyone, including a Wastyn family member that didn't actually do the deed, to give provenance unless they have hard copy ephemera.

You may ask the old owner guy if his wife knew of Eileen Sheridan. She would have been a hero to women bicyclists in those days. She set time trials racing records throughout England and did it on a Mercian that was painted and decaled as a Hercules. Hercules sponsored her but she was trained and tested on her own Mercian.

Of course, I may be Bat poop...


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## indycycling (May 29, 2022)

Schwinny said:


> Being very interested in these old Schwinn frames, and the later models that also have the bands. I cant remember any Ive seen that had the bands facing any way other than white to white. Or any with bands on the fork. Notice the blue version in your last group of pics. White to White.
> Just musing, and adding to the anomalies section.
> Crazy it would have a British BB shell _and_ Headset. And not just headset, Head. That type of headset is most often seen with British style clip stem steerers, which also makes everything a bit more complicated.
> I have two British bikes with this style headset. One is an earlier floating race cup Brown and Wilkes, and one is a captured Brompton race cup like this one. Both came with a clip stem, but a swedge bolt stem works also.
> ...





Schwinny said:


> Slept on it awhile. the frame has become a bug for me. A challenge really. Mainly because for the last year Ive been pouring over the VCC Library finding the history of the two British Club Bikes Ive been restoring. Pulling threads, I've read  histories and seen videos and hundreds of bikes. I've been browbeat by several VCC Marque enthusiasts as "that yank with one of our old boys" to get it right if I was doing it at all. These are many times all old guys that cant even ride anymore. Some live amongst their extensive collection of old European bikes.
> 
> First, I imagine it very strange that any American bike builder would be using a British BB shell or Head tube at any time. There really is no reason to, specialty shop our not. There is no advantage to the BB Shell. On the finished bike, no-one would know the difference in any way other than to be told. Same goes for the head tube. The headset being unique is one thing, but there is no racing advantage I can see. If you don't want cages around the bearings, simply dont use cages. Add 2 balls and reassemble without cages, Ive done it, it works fine.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your reply and insights

After 4th generation builder/owner Scott Wastyn reviewed the details and numerous photos I sent him and indicated the frame was one of theirs, I'm going with that.  

Hard to tell over the decades about the associated parts that are now on the bike. I love this bike for what it appears to be, what it may be, and the little history I know from Bill Leahy including his wife, a certified Schwinn mechanic and track racer, Elizabeth. And the fact it's a 49cm seat tube, my size, wow!  

I'd love to better understand the age of this frame - ballpark now 30's to pre '58 

Thanks!


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## Schwinny (May 29, 2022)

indycycling said:


> Thanks for your reply and insights
> 
> After 4th generation builder/owner Scott Wastyn reviewed the details and numerous photos I sent him and indicated the frame was one of theirs, I'm going with that.
> 
> ...



Great. Then I'm sure he will be able to find it in the Wastyn records and provide further insights to it's provenance.
I look forward to reading about it.
Very interesting stuff.


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## indycycling (May 30, 2022)

Schwinny said:


> Great. Then I'm sure he will be able to find it in the Wastyn records and provide further insights to it's provenance.
> I look forward to reading about it.
> Very interesting stuff.



I have no expectation that Scott will be pouring through any records. I am hoping he will respond and give me his opinion on the rough age.  

Yes, very interesting stuff for sure


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## corbettclassics (May 30, 2022)

Schwinny said:


> Slept on it awhile. the frame has become a bug for me. A challenge really. Mainly because for the last year Ive been pouring over the VCC Library finding the history of the two British Club Bikes Ive been restoring. Pulling threads, I've read  histories and seen videos and hundreds of bikes. I've been browbeat by several VCC Marque enthusiasts as "that yank with one of our old boys" to get it right if I was doing it at all. These are many times all old guys that cant even ride anymore. Some live amongst their extensive collection of old European bikes.
> 
> First, I imagine it very strange that any American bike builder would be using a British BB shell or Head tube at any time. There really is no reason to, specialty shop our not. There is no advantage to the BB Shell. On the finished bike, no-one would know the difference in any way other than to be told. Same goes for the head tube. The headset being unique is one thing, but there is no racing advantage I can see. If you don't want cages around the bearings, simply dont use cages. Add 2 balls and reassemble without cages, Ive done it, it works fine.
> 
> ...





Here's a bottom bracket shell from one of my old track bikes from a builder in the 40's out of Southern CA ( San Diego ) using a British Made.


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## juvela (May 30, 2022)

corbettclassics said:


> Here's a bottom bracket shell from one of my old track bikes from a builder in the 40's out of Southern CA ( San Diego ) using a British Made.
> 
> View attachment 1636457




-----

thank you for posting this

have you been able to determine the maker and model of the shell?

is it the same pattern as that of the subject machine?

usually with Brit stock frame bits one thinks of Davis, Brampton & Haden

one thing which makes me tend to eliminate Brampton is the absence of raised markings; their stock numbers are usually cast in to the mould such that they appear raised on the castings


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## Schwinny (May 30, 2022)

It would be nice to get to the bottom... Bracket of this. I have a 1950 English machine with the same wording, same curvature but in a a smaller stamping.
I would also ask what head is on it?


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## indycycling (May 30, 2022)

corbettclassics said:


> Here's a bottom bracket shell from one of my old track bikes from a builder in the 40's out of Southern CA ( San Diego ) using a British Made.
> 
> View attachment 1636457



Thanks for posting this, good to know British made and US bike builder like mine

I sold a 73 Paramount P-15 Touring last year that had a Cinelli stamped bottom bracket shell


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## Schwinny (May 30, 2022)

A 73' paramount has no relation. I imagine it had many other parts on it from around the world.
In the time frames we are talking about here, the world was not the same at all.
Historical truths aren't subject to speculation. They are what they are.
They _are_ subject to anomaly, but those anomalies have proof of existence somehow.
Without proof, it is speculation, which is heresay, which is barely acceptable as circumstance.

I think you may be taking this too seriously for some reason. No one is attacking your ego, just trying to learn about what would be a very interesting anomoly.
You are the one that wrote the title of this thread.

The truths of the WW2 era are for sure. There really is no question or wiggle room.
Now, how does your bike, and cornettclassics bike fit in?
Wastyn records could show. I imagine it would be interesting to them also.
Cornettclassics provenance on his bike could be a key.
Just jiggling the lock.
I think I may have a later version of this company's BB on one of my bikes. It has other identifying factors. Maybe that could be a key. To know the actual maker of the BB. 
Learning the time frames of independent Wastyn manufacture as opposed to them making Schwinn's could be helpful. Did they produce concurrently?
Perhaps it's an early Wastyn frame before Schwinn, 
Does anyone else with an early Schwinn track bike have anything similar?
Etc.
I'm pretty sure that an early Schwinn track frame, made for Schwinn by Wastyn with English frame parts would be a game changer for historical reference.
Let's find out...


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## indycycling (May 30, 2022)

Schwinny said:


> A 73' paramount has no relation. I imagine it had many other parts on it from around the world.
> In the time frames we are talking about here, the world was not the same at all.
> Historical truths aren't subject to speculation. They are what they are.
> They _are_ subject to anomaly, but those anomalies have proof of existence somehow.
> ...



Schwinny
I posted the comment about my Paramount with Cinelli BB shell as an example of what appears to be a mismatch, no comparison to this bike. That followed seeing the same British Made stamping on a USA made frame from way back.

I am certainly taking this seriously as I would like to fully understand what I have. The title was based upon an 80+ year old man's foggy recollection and everything suggests otherwise - so I have no clue what else you mean here.  I have Scott Wastyn telling me it's one of his frames and I'm satisfied.  If you feel like you can further assist, have at it. You know a lot more about these bikes than I do, hands down. I am more expert around Schwinn Stingrays.  So if you want to truly help me, send me a private message with specifics and we can discuss further, thanks


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## corbettclassics (May 31, 2022)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> thank you for posting this
> 
> ...



Yes, actually I was able to determine who the builder was when I started stripping the old paint off.

The original paint and decals still on the bike ... by Mike Moulton.  No relation to Dave Moulton or Alex Moulton.

Bike is called a "Moulton Special" built late 40's ( builder Southern California ).  I restored the frame and sold it to a friend in Washington.

Here's some photos of it - it did resemble Wastyn bikes etc.




 

 








View attachment 1637318


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## indycycling (May 31, 2022)

corbettclassics said:


> Yes, actually I was able to determine who the builder was when I started stripping the old paint off.
> 
> The original paint and decals still on the bike ... by Mike Moulton.  No relation to Dave Moulton or Alex Moulton.
> 
> ...



Came out very nice!


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## juvela (May 31, 2022)

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thank you!

is the Y-pattern chainset worn in the photo a Paramount, a Way-Assauto or other?



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## indycycling (Jun 1, 2022)

Thanks to buddy Shawn, some sew ups installed


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