# CWC Wise cycle-lock, how to find correct key?



## jpromo (Nov 20, 2012)

I've got a fork lock on my '38 Zep and I was wondering if there was any way to find out which key serial would work with it? Concentric Wise keys are all over ebay and if I could find which one I'll need, I can keep an eye out for it.

Also, I imagine I won't find any locksmiths that can handle cutting blank Wise keys? or am I wrong here? They are one of the few old school businesses that remain essentially unchanged so I may be pleasantly surprised.


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## Buster1 (Nov 20, 2012)

What does the lock look like?  I have one on my fork of my '38 Roadmaster that never came with a key.

I too would like to get it working!


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## jpromo (Nov 21, 2012)

Chances are they're the same lock. Rectangular box with a sliding lock, got a little hook on the back-side. I believe the key will look along these lines since Wise produced the lock. Concentric locks have the keying on the nose like that.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-NON-ORIGINAL-WISE-LOCK-CONCENTRIC-TUBE-LOCK-KEY-ILCO-1057-FREE-SHIPPING-/160921435073?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2577aa3bc1


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## catfish (Nov 21, 2012)

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showth...ocks-and-Keys-!!!!!!!!!!!&highlight=wise+keys


I have over 100 original Wise keys. I usually bring them with me to the Memory Lane meet every April. I usually have 5 or 10 people that bring locks that need keys. They all take turns with the keys. trying each key in their lock (or locks) till they find one that works. Sometime they get lucky and find the key they need in the first one or two they try. Sometimes they get down to the last one and that's the one that works. Sometimes they don't fine one at all.... It's an honor system. I trust you to give back the keys, and pay for the ones you take. I've must paired up about 40 or 50 locks and keys since I've been doing it. I've posted about it on the CABE before. 

  Catfish 




jpromo said:


> I've got a fork lock on my '38 Zep and I was wondering if there was any way to find out which key serial would work with it? Concentric Wise keys are all over ebay and if I could find which one I'll need, I can keep an eye out for it.
> 
> Also, I imagine I won't find any locksmiths that can handle cutting blank Wise keys? or am I wrong here? They are one of the few old school businesses that remain essentially unchanged so I may be pleasantly surprised.


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## jpromo (Nov 21, 2012)

That'd be amazing. To remove the lock, the second screw must be removed when it's in the locked position. Is there any way to release the lock once it's removed, just in case I don't find a key? Or I guess I could just bring the whole bike.


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## fordsnake (Nov 21, 2012)

Here are pics of three Zep locks...two of them are mine. Nothing unique in the design, they look like regular keys.


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## jpromo (Nov 21, 2012)

Oops, neither of those are what I have. I think for the Snyder-built bikes (fact check), they had a plate on the bottom of the fork crown with three notches for a lock mounted on the downtube to lock into. I don't have a close-up shot of my lock but here's my bike, you can see if on the downtube.


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## Buster1 (Nov 21, 2012)

Okay, here's mine.  Looks about like yours Jason.

What is that hook, and why is yours extended?


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## RMS37 (Nov 21, 2012)

The difference is between the original Snyder built, FBS framed, Hawthorne Zeps of 1936-early 1938 and the later 1938+ Zeps which were sourced from both CWC and Snyder. Fordsnake’s pictures show the lock mechanisms that were used on late 1936 and 1937/early1938 Snyder built Hawthorne Zeps; the fork crown lock being the later of the two designs. These locks use a standard type key.


  The Wise lock question is referring to the externally applied locking mechanism that was used on the 1938-1940 Howthorne Zeps (both CWC and Snyder sourced; the one pictured by Jpromo is a CWC built bike). Those locks are bolted to the underside of the down tube and lock into a castellated addition on the back side of the fork crown. They were offered by CWC as a factory option on distributor orders for virtually all models and were provided to Snyder for fitment to the production of the Hawthorne Zep models they produced. These locks use a Wise pattern key and those keys have an amazing array of ends. From of more than 100 blanks I was able to open two of my locks when Catfish’s keys were in Seattle some time ago.


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## RMS37 (Nov 21, 2012)

Buster1 said:


> Okay, here's mine.  Looks about like yours Jason.
> 
> What is that hook, and why is yours extended?




The hook is designed to move forward and close when the lock is actuated. It's purpose is to form the locking link for a length of chain so the bike can be chained to a pole.


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## jpromo (Nov 21, 2012)

RMS37 said:


> The hook is designed to move forward and close when the lock is actuated. It's purpose is to form the locking link for a length of chain so the bike can be chained to a pole.




That's an ingenious design. I never would have guessed that the reason for the hook.


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## Buster1 (Nov 21, 2012)

Same, really ingenious.  So what kind is my lock?  Wise?


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## catfish (Nov 21, 2012)

Phil,    It's always good to hear I was able to help out. I'm glad you were able to find some keys you could use.

  Catfish



RMS37 said:


> These locks use a Wise pattern key and those keys have an amazing array of ends. From of more than 100 blanks I was able to open two of my locks when Catfish’s keys were in Seattle some time ago.


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## THEGOLDENGREEK (Nov 22, 2012)

Im in the same boat with my 1938 hawthorne zep. Im going to look for a key as well. Im going to try my friend at the locksmith first and then ill try to run into catfish at a show and maybe one of his keys work other then that i got a lock with no key lol!! CAN SOME POST A PIC OF WHAT THIS KEY LOOKS LIKE THANK YOU .


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## 1918 Ranger (Nov 22, 2012)

Amazing ingenuity!!


1918 Ranger


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## catfish (Nov 22, 2012)

They look just like this. 

View attachment 74527




THEGOLDENGREEK said:


> Im in the same boat with my 1938 hawthorne zep. Im going to look for a key as well. Im going to try my friend at the locksmith first and then ill try to run into catfish at a show and maybe one of his keys work other then that i got a lock with no key lol!! CAN SOME POST A PIC OF WHAT THIS KEY LOOKS LIKE THANK YOU .


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## jpromo (Nov 22, 2012)

THEGOLDENGREEK said:


> Im in the same boat with my 1938 hawthorne zep. Im going to look for a key as well. Im going to try my friend at the locksmith first and then ill try to run into catfish at a show and maybe one of his keys work other then that i got a lock with no key lol!! CAN SOME POST A PIC OF WHAT THIS KEY LOOKS LIKE THANK YOU .




Post back here when you find what that locksmith has to say. There are a couple classic ones near me that I could inquire to if there's any chance somebody can still run these.


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## catfish (Nov 24, 2012)

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?26623-Wise-Locks-and-Keys-!!!!!!!!!!!


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## THEGOLDENGREEK (Nov 24, 2012)

jpromo said:


> Post back here when you find what that locksmith has to say. There are a couple classic ones near me that I could inquire to if there's any chance somebody can still run these.




Sounds good Jpromo i will i have off this monday and i will go see him at the lock smith shop. But it would be pretty cool if catfish has one of our keys that would work though Amazing the collection he has!!


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## THEGOLDENGREEK (Nov 24, 2012)

catfish said:


> They look just like this.
> 
> View attachment 74527




Thanxs for the pics of the keys catfish, much appriciated they almost look like old luggage keys!!


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## THEGOLDENGREEK (Nov 25, 2012)

Hi i thought mine said wise but its not a wise lock. Mine is a cleveland welding lock. But i guess they look the same. My question is are the keys the same you got catfish?? I posted pics let me know what style key i need thanxs again.


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## catfish (Nov 25, 2012)

I think they are..... But maybe someone else knows for sure. Phil?



THEGOLDENGREEK said:


> View attachment 74691View attachment 74692View attachment 74693View attachment 74694
> 
> Hi i thought mine said wise but its not a wise lock. Mine is a cleveland welding lock. But i guess they look the same. My question is are the keys the same you got catfish?? I posted pics let me know what style key i need thanxs again.


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## jpromo (Nov 25, 2012)

That's the lock I have as well. I think it was Phil that told me the Cleveland welding locks were made by Wise.


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## catfish (Nov 25, 2012)

jpromo said:


> That's the lock I have as well. I think it was Phil that told me the Cleveland welding locks were made by Wise.




That's what I thought, but could remember.....


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## THEGOLDENGREEK (Nov 26, 2012)

So i decided on my day off today to go to a lock smith shop to see if i can find a key for my bicycle lock. The first place i went to i struck out. Then i went to another place that has been around since the late 1940s. I showed the guy the lock and he had never seen one before. Then i showed him what the key might look like. He went in the back and came out with a bundle of  over 100 wise keys that said Cleveland welding on them. And i was blown away, i just couldnt believe it. So he said go through them and good luck. Well i tried the first one but no good, then i tried the second one and the locked worked. I couldnt believe it, i felt like i just hit the lotto lol!  So i ended up testing out all the keys he had and only the one worked. So i bought it for 5buxs. Well like i say you never now if you never try and ask. But it worked out in my favor today. I might go back and buy all the keys from him if he is willing to sell them. But i wanna thank you JPROMO for posting this post up because it got me motivated to find a key and i did. Here are some pics with it opened and not opened on the lock.


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## THEGOLDENGREEK (Nov 26, 2012)

jpromo said:


> That's the lock I have as well. I think it was Phil that told me the Cleveland welding locks were made by Wise.




Hi Jpromo, I was thinking if you wanted to ship me your lock  and i can try the guy at the lock smith and see if he has the key for your lock . Or i was thinking maybe you should ship your lock to Catfish and see if he has one as well. Just and idea unless you run into him at a bike show.


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## jpromo (Nov 26, 2012)

THEGOLDENGREEK said:


> Hi Jpromo, I was thinking if you wanted to ship me your lock  and i can try the guy at the lock smith and see if he has the key for your lock . Or i was thinking maybe you should ship your lock to Catfish and see if he has one as well. Just and idea unless you run into him at a bike show.




What a great story! Hollywood ending and all. Also, that would be a great idea, to ship the lock to you if you'd be willing to do that. I'd certainly pay for your time. My only concern is that, in order to get the lock off the bike, it must be in the locked position to get the second screw out. If I do not find a key, then it would have to stay locked. Though, it stands to reason that a key would turn up eventually.

I'll run into a few local locksmiths out here and see if I can't stumble upon the same luck you had. There are a few that look to have been around forever and then some. Thanks for the lift of spirits in the search!


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## THEGOLDENGREEK (Nov 26, 2012)

jpromo said:


> What a great story! Hollywood ending and all. Also, that would be a great idea, to ship the lock to you if you'd be willing to do that. I'd certainly pay for your time. My only concern is that, in order to get the lock off the bike, it must be in the locked position to get the second screw out. If I do not find a key, then it would have to stay locked. Though, it stands to reason that a key would turn up eventually.
> 
> I'll run into a few local locksmiths out here and see if I can't stumble upon the same luck you had. There are a few that look to have been around forever and then some. Thanks for the lift of spirits in the search!




 Thank you Jpromo , I dont think the lock has to be in the unlock position and you should see 2 flat head screws in the lock take those out and it should come out for you. But if your lock is in to locked position i guess your screwed. But no promblem on the help once again. Let me know how you make out and good luck.


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## THEGOLDENGREEK (Nov 26, 2012)

jpromo said:


> What a great story! Hollywood ending and all. Also, that would be a great idea, to ship the lock to you if you'd be willing to do that. I'd certainly pay for your time. My only concern is that, in order to get the lock off the bike, it must be in the locked position to get the second screw out. If I do not find a key, then it would have to stay locked. Though, it stands to reason that a key would turn up eventually.
> 
> I'll run into a few local locksmiths out here and see if I can't stumble upon the same luck you had. There are a few that look to have been around forever and then some. Thanks for the lift of spirits in the search!




Hi jpromo. My lock must be different then yours because on mine if the lock is not in the locked position your able to get to the two screws. But if your lock is stuck in the lock position then you will be not able to take the lock out let me know either way and i got no problem in doing that for you. You never know he might have it.


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## bricycle (Nov 26, 2012)

THEGOLDENGREEK said:


> So i decided on my day off today to go to a lock smith shop to see if i can find a key for my bicycle lock. The first place i went to i struck out. Then i went to another place that has been around since the late 1940s. I showed the guy the lock and he had never seen one before. Then i showed him what the key might look like. He went in the back and came out with a bundle of  over 100 wise keys that said Cleveland welding on them. And i was blown away, i just couldnt believe it. So he said go through them and good luck. Well i tried the first one but no good, then i tried the second one and the locked worked. I couldnt believe it, i felt like i just hit the lotto lol!  So i ended up testing out all the keys he had and only the one worked. So i bought it for 5buxs. Well like i say you never now if you never try and ask. But it worked out in my favor today. I might go back and buy all the keys from him if he is willing to sell them. But i wanna thank you JPROMO for posting this post up because it got me motivated to find a key and i did. Here are some pics with it opened and not opened on the lock.
> View attachment 74816View attachment 74817View attachment 74818View attachment 74819




I like happy endings!


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## jpromo (Nov 26, 2012)

I may just take up on your offer. Sending PM!


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