# Schwinn Autocycle appraisel



## Bob McCall

Hi,  I'm new to the forum but can see that this is the place for antique bike aficionados.  I'm hoping that I might get some help with determining the value of a 1948 Autocycle that I've got.  Bought it about 15 years ago and had it professionally restored about 10 years ago.  It's been in my garage ever since.  We used original parts with a few exceptions. The bars, gooseneck, teardrop light, switches, seat and rims are all new replicas.  All the pin-striping was done by hand. All chrome parts were re-chromed and cadmium re-plated. It was repainted in the original black and cream. Any thoughts?  I'm going to sell it and would like a fare assessment.


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## Freqman1

I'm sure some real experts will weigh in here but my guesstimate would be $1250-1500. I bought a really nice original '46 AC late last year for $1650. It didn't have the forebrake but did have the ND DD 2spd. I feel I gave market but liked the two tone green. V/r Shawn


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## redline1968

its actually called a b-6.


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## Freqman1

Actually the Schwinn literature through '50 refers to this model as the Autocycle. V/r Shawn


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## ABC Services

*B-6 Autocycle / Autocycle B-6*

All the same , your both right.


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## Wayne Adam

*B-6 Autocycle*

The restoration looks very good, and I would think that your bike is easily worth $2,500.00........Wayne


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## Freqman1

Wayne Adam said:


> The restoration looks very good, and I would think that your bike is easily worth $2,500.00........Wayne




Its shiny and its a Schwinn so who knows. I just don't see a restored bike with some repo/new parts pulling better money than an original? Who restored the bike? That always seems to have some influence on price as well. Not trying to knock the bike because it is gorgeous and maybe I'm a little low but I guess the only way to know for sure is put it up for sale and see. V/r Shawn


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## jkent

I wouldn't put $2500 into it. It is nice but like Shawn said with the repop parts and it being restored, just not a $2500 bicycle to me. just my .02


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## how

I agree,,not 2500, maybe 1500 at the most,,

A original one,,not as nice as this one,,just went on ebay for 800 plus shipping.

Not to hurt any feelings but here is one,,yea it is kinda rough but all original and the horn works lol
 all original cept pedals and seat. In the tank was a complete set of tools from that era.

I pulled it outta a dumpster lol I lubed and tuned it and ride it all the time.


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## old hotrod

A guy listed one in similar condition and colors several times on ebay with a buy it now of 1800 and it took forever to sell. Or he gave up or sold it off ebay. No front drum though so yours in similar condition, similar circumstances would push up to 2k and maybe slightly more if all the stars line up. If it was restored by a well known restorer and with his help to find a buyer, it may actually sell for more but that would be one of the few in my opinion...and again, you never really know because if two people have to have it, well it could take off...


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## Larmo63

With the pictures you've shown, it's hard to see any warts. An "in hand"

assessment would be better for me if I were buying this bike. It does 

look like a nice bicycle, $1750-2100 tops..........imho


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## how

While it seems many Vintage Schwinns are going up in price, the lower end stuff seems to be going a little high, seems like Phantoms and B6's are still comming down in price. Probably cause a guy that was 12 in 1953 when he had or wanted a B6 is now 72 or dead lol 

I love the bike but the average condition one are not worth 2500 to 3500 anymore.


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## Bob McCall

Bob Usasi restored the bike.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

*not a 2 grand bike*

Heres a realistic price of $810 bucks just sold on the bay, Og paint front drum. 1200 is tops fer this bike.  .. These are not 2500 2900 dollar bikes. Maybe 30 yrs from now!? Sorry but its My Two realistic cents... Phantoms are dropping below what some of you have quoted as a price.. Its a b6 not a phantom.. and honestly a lot depends on the quality of the repaint.. I can pin stripe too, just not very straight... !   with that said, ive seen a og B6 that has been on Ebay for like 5 years...$ 2500.. Not gonna happen.. And if Bob did the repaint, then that will add to it.. And are you sure the parts are reproductions or do you mean NOS? Bob on his resto of mine flat out refused to paint a repop part for it and insisted I wait for an og one to Pop up.


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## Larmo63

The market fell out after Schwinn did the re-pop thing on the Phantom. B-6 prices are 

actually pretty strong here in SoCal. They are way more popular than Phantoms here.

If Bob did this bike, then you know it is quality. I stand by my earlier price estimate.

Put it on eBay with no reserve, it will go bonkers.


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## Rear Facing Drop Out

*Really?*

How is the bike a 1200 bike? It started as a 1200 bike and got FULLY restored! Some people want a bike to be perfect. So they want a restored bike (I like all original). I would drop it on the bay a few times for 2500-3000 maybe even 3500 and be patient. Someone that wants a fully restored bike will spend it rather then buying a 1200 bike and spending the time and energy and the the money to spend another 2000 on the restoration. If it was rattle can restored it would be a grand. You had one of the best in the buisness to restore it and it will pay off!


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## Gary Mc

Since it's a Bob Usasi restoration and in probably better than new condition I have to agree with Larmo63.  I think you are looking at a low of $1500 to a high of $2100 if sold on ebay in a no or low reserve auction.  It is pure eye candy, beautiful bike!!!!!!!!!


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## videoranger

Gary Mc said:


> Since it's a Bob Usasi restoration and in probably better than new condition I have to agree with Larmo63.  I think you are looking at a low of $1500 to a high of $2100 if sold on ebay in a no or low reserve auction.  It is pure eye candy, beautiful bike!!!!!!!!!




I tend to agree with this assessment. Your actual selling price will be determined by many factors both practical and emotional and your price tipping point based on seller and buyer motivation. Best of luck with a great looker. Reproduction parts are definitely not desired by buyers looking to purchase such a bike IMHO.


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## scrubbinrims

Maybe some of us with opinions on value can donate $10 or so and we have a contest to see who get closer to the pin when it hits ebay...
Great restoration and presents well, but repop parts, and a common postwar bike.
That said, it is a Schwinn.
In this soft market, I am thinking $1,350.00 ending price without shipping.
Chris


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

*ba107*

I agree with scrubn. Bob restored top to bottom a RARE BA107 in cobalt blue on blue and it sold for 2800. Now with that said, mind you, that a 46 BA fat bar has many one year only things on it. Not at all or even close to as common as ANY post war B6 with the POSSIBLE exception to a 1946 b6. Also , it was done in rare two tone blue with front drum and a super rare chrome springer... Im not bashing om this guys bike at all.. Its beautiful .. But it all depends on what someone will pay for it in the end.


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## Rear Facing Drop Out

scrubbinrims said:


> Maybe some of us with opinions on value can donate $10 or so and we have a contest to see who get closer to the pin when it hits ebay...
> Great restoration and presents well, but repop parts, and a common postwar bike.
> That said, it is a Schwinn.
> In this soft market, I am thinking $1,350.00 ending price without shipping.
> Chris




I would toss a ten into the pot! I also have $1350 for that bike! (I like to double my money)


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## jkent

Bob, 
With all being said, and before you put this bike on Ebay. What would it take to purchase the bike? I am interested and you can contact me through my direct email at jkent00@hotmail.com. I would honestly like to try to work out a deal on this bike.
Thanks, JKent


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## Larmo63

I too would most likely pay $1350 for it. Huffmans are all the rage lately

out here in California, but this is a beautiful and solid bike.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

*congrats!!*



jkent said:


> Bob,
> With all being said, and before you put this bike on Ebay. What would it take to purchase the bike? I am interested and you can contact me through my direct email at jkent00@hotmail.com. I would honestly like to try to work out a deal on this bike.
> Thanks, JKent



 yer getting a Nice stable going!


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## jkent

I have not heard back as of yet but being patient.


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## bobcycles

*Black B6*

yeah, ok I restored the bike about 10 years ago.  And regardless whether it was me or Bob Strucel, Dave Stromberger or Tim B (the only other 3 competent restorers full time at it these days)....the fact of the matter is, A correct restoration on a B6 with fore brake and orig parts should be upwards of 2G and as much as 3G.

Why you ask?

Parts, Time, Labor, Plating, Paint SHOULD equal value.

I have sold restored B6's (OVER 20 YEARS AGO) for 3500.00 here locally, NOT ebay, but locally. It would be nice if they all brought that 
but they don't.

I've sold correctly restored Forebrake equipped B6's for 2500-3000 consistently...
I would hope any quality restored B6 that still looks 'fresh" and not banged up, would be worth that range.

To restore bicycle Properly?  Saddle, Chrome, Cad plating, Nickel Plating, Automotive paint,  Sourcing the missing or Worn parts (pedals, tires, grips, reflectors, horns etc)...
Then completely Blasting, Priming, 2-toning, hand pinstriping and decals...........then REASSEMBLY....

Restoration ALONE (sum of the above efforts) usually reaches the 2000 range, paintwork, plating, assembly and some parts.

Combine that with the value of a RESTORABLE ...complete original (often in decent survivor shape) ...... The bike could be 700-1000 bux AS-IS 
value prior to restoration.

Yeah! You are IDIOTS those of you who value a restored DELUXE bicycle like a B6 done correctly at 1500.00 you need to acquaint yourself
with the bicycle hobby and the industry standards for the work that is done.


GET IT DONE YOUR SELF PROFESSIONALLY and see how much you pay!

There is so much ignorance and stupidity on this board sometimes that it is just mind boggling... don't even know why I respond.

I would hope the Black B6 brings the owner 2G AT LEAST.....(minor wear and tear for 10 years of minimal parade rides and display)


Sure there are thousands of restored bicycles out there, most of them are complete botched messes....
anyone who has been in this hobby long enough can tell you that, or been to a number of shows to see
what's out there.   Anyone can make a shiny bike.

only a handful represent.


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## bobcycles

*one last one....*

One thing to keep in mind.  We are all collectors here to some degree.  Most of us are spoiled, find deals, don't have to pay 
retail for stuff very often, or only once in a while.

MOST restored bikes that I sell go to 'outside' the hobby buyers.  Those are the folks these 'retails' apply to most of all.
When you are 'networked' in like most of you are to whatever degree, killer deals pop up, even on restored bikes.
It happens.

As long as the public RESPECTS what we hold to be the value of true retail?  Then the market stays strong.
And yes of course we all pay retail for stuff we really want.  I've paid more than retail on many occassions
just to acquire that one piece that's been elusive for forever how long.

Just because most of us wouldn't pay top retail on a bike as fairly common as a Phantom, or B6 ....shouldn't
obscure the fact that these bicycles should retain their value.  Again, we are spoiled in that we see more of 
these bikes than Joe average.  Most people are blown away by something as common as Hornet or any tank bike.

As for Age appeal?   Balloon bikes were before my time.  StinkRays were my era.  I appreciate them, but
have more interest in 1930s-50s stuff.    The class and elegance of the 30s - 50s American Balloon stuff is timeless and
the variety in design is immense.

Not like say an old Model 'T' that .....sadly for those who invested and restored, has fallen out of collector fancy....they are very dated vehicles.

The bikes most of us are into here, Balloon era, were the most innovative and stylish 2 wheeled creations 
IN THE WORLD for their era.  No other country made anything as glamorous or stylized as our American Art Deco bikes.

Lets hope the market NEVER falls out of favor on this stuff...and maybe even gets stronger as it all gets more scarce.


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## Freqman1

Well Bob I guess I'm an idiot! I've been around collectibles to include cars and motorcycles my entire life. I've only been into bikes for the last four years or so but I would strongly disagree that base cost + restoration cost = value. My experience in this hobby is that most serious collectors prefer original bikes vice restored and all other things equal an original will bring more than restored. Like most collectibles if I can find a buyer outside the respective hobby I can usually get more (retail). The fact is it isn't worth restoring most bikes because regardless if its a Phantom or a Hornet the resto cost will be about the same. As a car guy I can tell you the restoration costs often will be more than can ever be recouped on resale. I've found this true with bicycles as well. The reason to restore is A. you want a restored bike and don't care about cost B. it has sentimental value and resto cost is not a factor, or C. the bike is rare, valuable, and is too far gone to save as an original. I respect your work (you've done seats for me) but to throw blanket statements out there that a bunch of us are idiots certainly isn't a way to endear me to a future professional relationship--oh Josh! The market is the market whether it be Ebay, other public venues, or private transactions and that's what determines value--not opinion. The guy solicited opinions and some of us provided that based on our experience. If you look at my post you will see that I asked who did the resto as I know it can be a factor. Next time I'll just send a PM to avoid an experience such as this. V/r Shawn


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## Wayne Adam

*Thanks Bob & Rear Facing Drop Out*

Thanks Bob and Rear Facing Drop Out,

   Thanks for agreeing with my estimate. I was right on the money in my earlier post when I said it is worth every bit of $2,500.00.
But all of the other posters seam to think they know better. Their low estimates ( guestimates) are a joke and unfair.
 I too do show quality restorations for 40 years now, and even $2,500.00 or $3, 000.00 could not accurately cover the time & effort
that goes into a concours restoration. Not only the dozens of hours that go into body & paint restoration, but also the chrome.

   SELLER... Don't sell this bike for anything less than $2,500.00 -$3,000.00 !!!.........................................Wayne


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## Freqman1

Wayne Adam said:


> Thanks Bob and Rear Facing Drop Out,
> 
> Thanks for agreeing with my estimate. I was right on the money in my earlier post when I said it is worth every bit of $2,500.00.
> But all of the other posters seam to think they know better. Their low estimates ( guestimates) are a joke and unfair.
> I too do show quality restorations for 40 years now, and even $2,500.00 or $3, 000.00 could not accurately cover the time & effort
> that goes into a concours restoration. Not only the dozens of hours that go into body & paint restoration, but also the chrome.
> 
> SELLER... Don't sell this bike for anything less than $2,500.00 -$3,000.00 !!!.........................................Wayne




Until it sells they are all just "guesstimates". I hope the seller can get $3k for it--that means the market is strong! I have seen a stronger market for quality, rare bikes--this one only fits half the equation--it isn't rare. I can buy really nice B6s (Autocycles) pretty much anytime. I'm just sorry I ever provided an opinion in such a hostile environment! V/r Shawn


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## 2jakes

Bob McCall said:


> Hi,  I'm new to the forum but can see that this is the place for antique bike aficionados.  I'm hoping that I might get some help with determining the value of a 1948 Autocycle that I've got.  Bought it about 15 years ago and had it professionally restored about 10 years ago.  It's been in my garage ever since.  We used original parts with a few exceptions. The bars, gooseneck, teardrop light, switches, seat and rims are all new replicas.  All the pin-striping was done by hand. All chrome parts were re-chromed and cadmium re-plated. It was repainted in the original black and cream. Any thoughts?  I'm going to sell it and would like a fare assessment.
> 
> View attachment 89893View attachment 89894View attachment 89895View attachment 89896View attachment 89897




Hi Bob,

This is my 1946 Chevrolet truck that I bought from a local car dealer. He
restored it to like new. He gave it to his son. But since it was restored to
original condition, the son didn't like the way it handled. No power steering,
no a/c & rode like a tank on the freeway ( original straight 6 ). Much was
spent. The thing of it is... one can put $$$$$$ into it but the bottom line...
This truck, the fair market  value is just so much & no more.
How much you paid for the bike originally is one thing.
How much you invested in the bike is another thing.
That is why there is so much difference of opinion on what is a "fare" assessment.

BTW: Welcome to the Forum !


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## OLDTIMER

I have just recently got into the world of old bikes and Schwinns are my brand of choice. What I know about antique bikes can fit in a two-word sentence......Very little. Nevertheless, I have spent my lifetime professionally in the auto sales & service field and privately owning and selling antiques cars and parts. I most recently have removed myself from the sales part of this and find comfort in owning and tinkering with a few old bikes.
What I have learned in my experiences is the real value of an object exists between the seller and buyer and no one else. What the buyer is willing to pay and what the seller is willing to accept is the value. Anything beyond this is historic or speculative.
Yes there are many things like scarcity, certain options etc that could represent a certain price, but again it all funnels down to the buyer/seller value.
What I have learned in the thread as a newbie is invaluable.....I think a few hugs and a nice, long bike ride would be in order....


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## markivpedalpusher

OLDTIMER said:


> I have just recently got into the world of old bikes and Schwinns are my brand of choice. What I know about antique bikes can fit in a two-word sentence......Very little. Nevertheless, I have spent my lifetime professionally in the auto sales & service field and privately owning and selling antiques cars and parts. I most recently have removed myself from the sales part of this and find comfort in owning and tinkering with a few old bikes.
> What I have learned in my experiences is the real value of an object exists between the seller and buyer and no one else. What the buyer is willing to pay and what the seller is willing to accept is the value. Anything beyond this is historic or speculative.
> Yes there are many things like scarcity, certain options etc that could represent a certain price, but again it all funnels down to the buyer/seller value.
> What I have learned in the thread as a newbie is invaluable.....I think a few hugs and a nice, long bike ride would be in order....




Very well said!


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## Freqman1

OLDTIMER said:


> I have just recently got into the world of old bikes and Schwinns are my brand of choice. What I know about antique bikes can fit in a two-word sentence......Very little. Nevertheless, I have spent my lifetime professionally in the auto sales & service field and privately owning and selling antiques cars and parts. I most recently have removed myself from the sales part of this and find comfort in owning and tinkering with a few old bikes.
> What I have learned in my experiences is the real value of an object exists between the seller and buyer and no one else. What the buyer is willing to pay and what the seller is willing to accept is the value. Anything beyond this is historic or speculative.
> Yes there are many things like scarcity, certain options etc that could represent a certain price, but again it all funnels down to the buyer/seller value.
> What I have learned in the thread as a newbie is invaluable.....I think a few hugs and a nice, long bike ride would be in order....




I agree...I was cool til the name calling started! V/r Shawn


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## 2jakes

*Schwinn Autocycle*



Freqman1 said:


> I agree...I was cool til the name calling started! V/r Shawn




+1 on that...


It's a public forum...we all have our opinions.
If you disagree, have the respect to say why
instead of name calling...

*CHILL*


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## bobcycles

*cars vs bikes*

Cars are indeed huge money pits.  Rarely are restoration costs recovered.
Bicycles vs Auto restorations?
They are 2 different tasks and bicycles DO recover their restoration costs much better than a lot of the car restorations out there.

Both usually take a substantial market hit if the restorations was done along time ago, or was amateur...typicaly peak profit realized 
on a just finished project.

Apologies for the insult but there are a lot of people on this board who simply have not
been around the block in this hobby....and to low-ball a guy asking for advice is much more vulgar than
an 'idiot' remark, reacting to the whole thing.
Do I know everything?
Hell no.
But I've been involved with the bike hobby since the late 70's and restored and sold alot of bikes, I believe
my perspective is quite accurate.

I can also tell you, some restored automobiles DO make a profit at auction or in the market, you 
have to choose wisely which car you're going to go the miles on to restore.

The bike in question here is an older resto, there will be wear and tear, but if it still presents well, lets
hope the seller gets 2G range.  Over the years I have realized closer to 3G on the same bike done right 
with NO repro parts other than a battery light tray.  But that is for a fresh job.

In closing- The bicycle hobby has far more "grey areas" than the classic car realm, as far as yard sticks for value
and accuracy of restore.  I see people overpaying constantly for horribly restored and totally misrepresented junk that .......well looks shiny and new.
On the same note I often see rare bikes that deserve a good dollar go underbid or reserves not met.

Both scenarios due to an very large uninformed or uneducated market.


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## Rear Facing Drop Out

*So......... Can I buy it for $1350?*

How about $1375? Its a good bike with a great resto. 2+ Gs....


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## Bob McCall

I dropped the bike at Bob's place and he's going to fix a couple of small paint chips.  We also discussed what was original and Repop.  I mistakenly stated before that the seat, rims, handlebars and gooseneck were not original - they are original parts!  The teardrop light is not original.  I do have the one that came with the bike but it was not in good enough condition to go with the restoration we were doing.  It would have to go to an expert at chrome plating to be of use since it is covered in scale.  

When I got the bike someone had painted it very poorly in blue and we determined the best thing to do was take it back to its original color scheme.  
The original seat was gone as well as the tank, chain guard, goose neck and package tray.  We sourced all original parts and painted them to match. 

Bob will be sending me a list as to specific parts like what type of rims and so on.  

Thanks for the interest.  I will try and come up with a price as soon as Bob is finished with the touch ups.


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## spoker

*value*

Beautiful bike restored by an unbelivable craftsman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!thanks for the eye candy


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## bobcycles

*b6 autocycle*

Saw the bike today.  Honestly?  looks like it was never ridden since restored.  maybe 3 or 4 tiny nicks in the paint, minor.  Entire bike looks fresh! Must have been kept indoors.  As far as originality.  Very few corners cut...The only significant repro parts are the pedals (torrington 10 repros)  and the light top, (1st quality expensive repro one)... brake cable, and battery tray for the headlight and that's it.

Details such as Original restored doublebutted Torrington spokes and long nipples, Correct Lobdell rims (found on many 48's along with non knurled 1st year S2s)  Orig mint Delta horn, mesinger B-1 orig saddle restored in tan, orig Typhoon Tires (not repro) original NOS grips.

The ONLY upgrades that would make a difference would be a nicer Trains and Planes badge (easy find) and an orig set of Torrington or Majestic Persons pedals.  Even has the Stimsonite "10" reflector and glass 6 hole rack jewel.

Original Arnold Schwinn Yale key in the lock, working fine.

For a 10 year old restoration...you could tell ANYONE the bike was done 1 month ago and they would believe you, it was THAT well taken care of.

Good luck with it!


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## scrubbinrims

*idiots vs. idealists*

I was going to leave this thread alone after reading oldtimer's post, but I feel like my $1,350 estimate (and putting money where my mouth is) is being mocked and otherwise discounted.

First a disclosure...I am not a "Schwinn guy" although I have a B6 autocycle, I am not looking for common balloon tire bicycles, I frown upon reproduction parts, and I fly among the original paint flock.
My speculation is not only based on what I find of value, but also comparable sales witnessed in my 5 years in the hobby.
On the flip side, there have been special interest opinions of this bicycle from a professional restorer and those who covet restored bicycles more than I.

I have a philosophical difference of opinion on restored bicycle values versus original paint specimens and the facts of past sales bear out that base price + restoration price does not equal total price except in extreme cases of rareity in combination with high desirability.
I have a few bicycles that have been/are being professionally restored and I am resigned to the fact that I will not recover my investment, yet that is okay being an endeavor for myself.

So what is the market?
Put it on ebay and find out or put a number on it and take the offer that is closest to what you want.
The market may be made up of uneducated, inexperienced bicycle idiots, but it is the market nonetheless and more relevant than what this would bring many years ago.

The truth is that nice original (or mostly) B6's hit up to around 1500.00 these days and there is a current example in the for sale section below.
I have a hard time placing a higher value on a restored model over the same model in good condition.
This one is 1400.00 and comes with a 2-speed set up, a 250.00 value alone... and having less artificial fillers.

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?39778-FS-1946-Schwinn-B6-Complete

To each there own, no offense meant in my speculative value, but I assure you that I am not just guessing here.
2K, 2.5K, 3K for a restored commodity with repro parts?
I'd like to see those that state that, pay that. 

Chris, idiot bicycle collector.


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## Freqman1

I believe those were my points exactly! Amen brother--see ya at MLC. V/r Shawn


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## hzqw2l

scrubbinrims said:


> I was going to leave this thread alone after reading oldtimer's post, but I feel like my $1,350 estimate (and putting money where my mouth is) is being mocked and otherwise discounted.
> 
> First a disclosure...I am not a "Schwinn guy" although I have a B6 autocycle, I am not looking for common balloon tire bicycles, I frown upon reproduction parts, and I fly in the original paint flock.
> My speculation is not only based on what I find of value, but also comparable sales in my 5 years in the hobby.
> On the flip side, there have been special interest opinions of this bicycle from a professional restorer and those who covet restored bicycles more than I.
> 
> I have a philosophical difference of opinion on restored bicycle values versus original paint specimens and the facts of past sales bear out than base price + restoration price does not equal total price except in extreme cases of rareity in combination with high desirability.
> I have a few bicycle that have been/are being professionally restored and I am resigned to the fact that I will not recover my investment, yet that is okay being an endeavor for myself.
> 
> So what is the market?
> Put it on ebay and find out or put a number on it and take the offer that is closest to what you want.
> The market may be made up of uneducated, inexperienced bicycle idiots, but it is the market nonetheless and more relevant than what this would bring many years ago.
> 
> The truth is that nice original (or mostly) B6's hit up to around 1500.00 these days and there is a current example in the for sale section below.
> I have a hard time placing a higher value on a restored model over the same model in good condition.
> This one is 1400.00 and comes with a 2-speed set up, a 250.00 value alone... and having less artificial fillers.
> 
> http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?39778-FS-1946-Schwinn-B6-Complete
> 
> To each there own, no offense meant in my speculative value, but I assure you that I am not just guessing here.
> 2K, 2.5K, 3K for a restored commodity with repro parts?
> I'd like to see those that state that, pay that.
> 
> Chris, idiot bicycle collector.




Agreed.

If you break a bicycle down and part it out you can probably maximize return and hit some of the high estimates in this thread.

So arriving at a reasonable price for my bike:

Wheelset $500-$600
Tires $75 and up.
Tank $200 and up.
Springer $200 and up.
Fenders $150 and up.
Rack $100 and up.
Bars/stem/grips/crank/chain/etc $100 and up.

Of course there could be an outlier either way that reduces or increases the final value.  Then the fees...
Some in this hobby elect to go this route.  I do not.

$1500 seemed fair to someone that wants a 1946 B6.  
Could I ask for more? Sure, but I like many other collectors, know what I have into it and just want someone else to get it at a reasonable price so they have potential upside.

If they get a deal and flip it at the next swap or ebay, so be it.

The antique anything market is a function of willing buyers at an offered price or offered price accepted by willing sellers.

What something sold for 5 years...5 days...5 minutes ago has little bearing on the item someone sells now other than a reference of perceived value.

Just wait a month and peruse the spring swaps and watch all those fabulous collector bikes get loaded back into the dealer rigs because buyers aren't paying what they're asking.

Of course there will be deals and scores but that's usually a function of the vulture mentality that exists at such venues...


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## jkent

Still Interested!


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## kccomet

this is an interesting thread. bob came on a little heavy handed, im sure no disrespect intended to fellow cabers. on the other end though the money spent restoring the bike might come back might not. i have been around the block, a few times and im still amazed at what some prices bring. like bob said were mostly bike savy here on the cabe. we all think we known what a bikes worth. i just know what its worth to me. some people are in awe of a balloon tire tanker or a wood rim bike. they just dont see them. the market is hard to predict, some dont care what they spend they just want it or think they do.... see copake auction. good luck with your sale its a good looking bike


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## 2jakes

kccomet said:


> this is an interesting thread. bob came on a little heavy handed, im sure no disrespect intended to fellow cabers. on the other end though the money spent restoring the bike might come back might not. i have been around the block, a few times and im still amazed at what some prices bring. like bob said were mostly bike savy here on the cabe. we all think we known what a bikes worth. i just know what its worth to me. some people are in awe of a balloon tire tanker or a wood rim bike. they just dont see them. the market is hard to predict, some dont care what they spend they just want it or think they do.... see copake auction. good luck with your sale its a good looking bike





Pretty sure there are other fellow cabers who have been around a few times & with all respect...
after it's all been said...it all comes down to this...
*" To each his own "*

Good Luck with the bike !


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## TheSaint

*It's a Shame*

You get what you pay for.....quality
work equals quality money

a lot of people assume a great car painter can paint a bicycle easily....

most car painters and bike restorers
do NOT replicate a bicycle paint scheme accurately at all even if they have a pristine factory original example right in front of them to use to take measurements from! 

This is where Bobcycles and DJShakes
have experience and eye for these details. 

It's a shame most collectors do not appreciate nor wish to have a restoration, a bicycle with a paint job that will be mistaken for a factory original
as it ages because they only see inaccurate restorations and feel the old bikes with original paint is the only way to go. 

theSaint


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## Freqman1

Well I guess most missed the point here. I can buy a nice orignal paint B6 that won't have to be mistaken for original--because it is! I refer back to Chris post above. Regardless it is a nice bike and I hope teh seller and new buyer both feel like they did well. As for myself if I can find nice, original then I will stay away from a resto even if Ignaz himself did it. V/r Shawn


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

*are we still on this?*

Whoever said they would pay $3500 put yer money wizz yer mouth is and buy it and you can be right and prove everyone wrong!.. Then this dumb childishly thread can die... Only to be reborn like a Phoenix when someone on training wheels three years from now asks if it is still for sale


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## jkent

kccomet said:


> this is an interesting thread. bob came on a little heavy handed, im sure no disrespect intended to fellow cabers. on the other end though the money spent restoring the bike might come back might not. i have been around the block, a few times and im still amazed at what some prices bring. like bob said were mostly bike savy here on the cabe. we all think we known what a bikes worth. i just know what its worth to me. some people are in awe of a balloon tire tanker or a wood rim bike. they just dont see them. the market is hard to predict, some dont care what they spend they just want it or think they do.... see copake auction. good luck with your sale its a good looking bike




"No Disrespect Intended"? I kinda took disrespect to the remark of being called and " IDIOT".
I am Interested in the bike and the only reason I chimed in with a price is because I thought I was being asked,  Not told. And the pice I quoted was the price I thought would be a fair price for the both of us. That is my observation and my opinion. So when I'm being asked for just that, and I give that, I do take disrespect to being called an idiot. If the owner wanted a collector/restorer's evaluation and appraisal then maybe that's what he should have done before coming onto an open forum and asking for just any Joe shmo for thier opinion on what they thought the bike might be worth. Worth to whom? Me? Well thats what he got. And in return I get called  an Idiot. 
So sorry Bob, but disrespect taken.


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## Rear Facing Drop Out

*Man am I confussed*

When a bike is properly restored it becomes more valuable then a typical survivor. Yes it is the 57 chevy of the bike world - high supply but one heck of a high demand. Someone what drops 40 Gs on a Edsel resto isnt gonna have as easy of a time getting their money back as someone restoring a 57 chevy. many guys out there want one bike and that bike needs to be perfect. Thats the guy for this bike. If he can step right into a done bike that saves him 500 off the top! I like deals and am patient. Thats the fun of it. Bottom line (in my opinion) is that it has a higher value then $1300. I have seen the restored drum brakes complete for close to 500! I hope to see it on ebay to see who is closer. Chris- I am in with my $10. (I like that Idea) If it goes down before AnnArbor and I loose I will include some beer with it. So in summary $1300 too low $3500 too high. Glad its not the price is right! No disrespect dished out just having some fun with my thoughts


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## jkent

I do agree, This bicycle is proprely restored. Kudos to Bob he did one hell of a job and I would love to have this bicycle. No doubt! I also agree the $1300 maybe on the low side. But your on a Fourm asking for value and interest in a bicycle. I'm not looking to pay TOP DOLLAR for a bicycle as common as a B6. I would how ever pay good money for it.  As I have let the owner know that I for one am interested in this bicycle. And what make this bike probably more valuable that just any restored B6 is the fact that it was done by one of the best in the industry, Bob. And it seems to have been done right. But this is not Ebay and the owner may or may not get more putting it on Ebay. Who knows? If his intensions are to maximize his potential profit, I would suggest one of two things. #1 Put it on Ebay and let it do what it's gonna do. #2 Part the bike out and sell every little part separate just like the owner of the Elgin Robins did. Strictly to maximize every penny and try to gain what he has in the restoration back out of it. 
I'm not condoning #2 but just putting it out there that's the way to maximize your profit.
JKent


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## Larmo63

No one even commented on the word "appraisel" spelled incorrectly.

It's "appraisal."


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## looneymatthew

*Everybody is an idiot or an expert ?*

There is no room for error in this forum. funny , we are having a pissing contest later come on over.
how about that B6 we saw at the long beach  swap sun. for$ XXX all orig. paint /tank  no forebrake but epic 
sick! the right place at the wright time rite .  happy hunting     


Larmo63 said:


> No one even commented on the word "appraisel" spelled incorrectly.
> 
> It's "appraisal."


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## redline1968

looneymatthew said:


> There is no room for error in this forum. funny , we are having a pissing contest later come on over.
> how about that B6 we saw at the long beach  swap sun. for$ XXX all orig. paint /tank  no forebrake but epic
> sick! the right place at the wright time rite .  happy hunting




I think they are the latter then end up in the beginning.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sometimes its hard to curb my IQ.


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## spoker

*bobcycles*

bobcycles,yryin yo get ahold of you reguaerding some seat work,could you email me with your contact info?email is bigtorque5@gmail.com,thanks AJ


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## Bob McCall

Larmo63 said:


> No one even commented on the word "appraisel" spelled incorrectly.
> 
> It's "appraisal."



 Then that must be why every "appraisal" so for is all over the place!


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## WES PINCHOT

*appraisal*

appraisals can be very subjective! the only true value 
is that which is agreed upon by the buyer and seller!
amen.


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## babyjesus

bobcycles said:


> One thing to keep in mind.  We are all collectors here to some degree.  Most of us are spoiled, find deals, don't have to pay
> retail for stuff very often, or only once in a while.
> 
> MOST restored bikes that I sell go to 'outside' the hobby buyers.  Those are the folks these 'retails' apply to most of all.
> When you are 'networked' in like most of you are to whatever degree, killer deals pop up, even on restored bikes.
> It happens.
> 
> As long as the public RESPECTS what we hold to be the value of true retail?  Then the market stays strong.
> And yes of course we all pay retail for stuff we really want.  I've paid more than retail on many occassions
> just to acquire that one piece that's been elusive for forever how long.
> 
> Just because most of us wouldn't pay top retail on a bike as fairly common as a Phantom, or B6 ....shouldn't
> obscure the fact that these bicycles should retain their value.  Again, we are spoiled in that we see more of
> these bikes than Joe average.  Most people are blown away by something as common as Hornet or any tank bike.
> 
> As for Age appeal?   Balloon bikes were before my time.  StinkRays were my era.  I appreciate them, but
> have more interest in 1930s-50s stuff.    The class and elegance of the 30s - 50s American Balloon stuff is timeless and
> the variety in design is immense.
> 
> Not like say an old Model 'T' that .....sadly for those who invested and restored, has fallen out of collector fancy....they are very dated vehicles.
> 
> The bikes most of us are into here, Balloon era, were the most innovative and stylish 2 wheeled creations
> IN THE WORLD for their era.  No other country made anything as glamorous or stylized as our American Art Deco bikes.
> 
> Lets hope the market NEVER falls out of favor on this stuff...and maybe even gets stronger as it all gets more scarce.




I agree. As well connected collectors it tends to end up that everybody evaluates according to the lowest and luckiest price end. If you want a restored B6 for 1g, you will get it, maybe now, maybe in 10 years, but the rest of the world doesn't necessarily know that, only we who scour ebay and see deals go down every day. The fact remains that a well restored bike costs alot to do and yes, it's true that restoration can be a losing game in terms of value but not always. There are alot of people who are not well connected and knowledgeable and who like a restored bike. If a true measure of the market came entirely from cabers then it would be totally different. But cabers probably amount to a small or very small percentage of the market and as long as we know the fact and keep in check with the fact our estimations will be more realistic. The stuff that goes cheap brings the average down, but not that much and only if you are willing to wait for a long time does that low end have any real meaning. 

If you want a beautifully restored bike of any kind it is going to cost. I am miles away from knowing about Schwinn prices but what I do see is a beautifully restored bike and that has value to me. Perhaps not even as much value as the restoration actually cost, but close. If I got that bike for 1.5 I'd feel lucky and on the low end. Ebay is wild. Things can go very low and very high. IT just makes all our evaluating much harder. But I'd say the average on a fantastic restoration is going to be higher than we all seem to think because those who are less knowledgeable and less connected and who form the hugest part of the market - in my estimation - are the ones who like the restored stuff more. So the average on a restored bike is higher I'd say. That being said, all the estimations made here lie within the realm of possibility. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong. It's always like that. No point in arguing about it. If I was wanting a B6, which I sort of am, they are way nicer than Phantoms and alot more paint and work involved in restoration - and beauty because of it, then I'd pay over 2 for that bike if it were offered to me privately and it was my moment for spending on a restored B6. On another day, if I was just looking for deals in general on ebay and I saw a restored B6 with an hour to go at 900, I'd put down 1.2-1.5 and hope I got lucky.  When Im looking for deals I don't have that kind of money, but if I did....  Then I'd feel like the lucky one who got the low end and we all know it can happen. Thats why this whole discussion is even happening. Ebay has a huge effect on it all I'd say.


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## bobcycles

*values*

As collectors?  We should hope the market is strong. As buyer?  We look for vulnerabilities or opportunities to buy low sell high.
There are tons of restored B6's out there... The percentage of them painted correctly and with the right parts on board?  is probably
very very low. I've seen tons of restored bikes and a very large percentage are "Interpretations" .......I would like to think that those of
us who have put in the time, effort, etc to study these old bikes and replicate the process of restoration accurately should be paid a 
premium for that.
Sort of like having Von Dutch stripe your hog.  Not to say I'm a "Von Dutch".....but my familiarity with the old bikes should 
add something to the value at resale.
Most of what I see on Ebay that is described as 'completely restored' is a joke, with so much aftermarket junk, wrong parts,
cheap tires, corners cut etc....AND?  Almost never disclosed.
I think what can seriously add to the value of any restoration ....is the peace of mind knowing that the bike is legit...
Ebay can be a can of worms and even a horribly inaccurate restoration, can photograph wonderfully and capture the heart
and pocket book of an impulsive bidder.  I see it happen all the time.
While as a collector I'm not all that fond of restored bikes,  I do enjoy restoring bikes that would otherwise be 
housepainted, or rusted heaps of very VAGUE representations of what that particular bike originally was.

Those of us who remember the hobby in the late 70s and 80s can recall a time when nearly every bike was destined to 
be restored.  Keith Dean must have restored hundreds.....and a very large percentage were excellent survivors.
Thankfully those days are over and the orig / patina'd bikes are preserved.

Prices can totally vary on Ebay....so it's not always the best market indicator for restored bikes.
I once sold a completely restored 100% original B6 on ebay with NO reserve...back in 1999...  IT bombed......at 1750.00
The buyer was local, and that was the only consolation, that he came and picked it up ( I didn't have to pack and ship it) 
 and was delighted at how little he paid.
He knew he 'stole' it.
That was a ONE time let down on what traditionally for me?  has been a relatively consistent and even strong market.  
I sent a 2Tone Blue B6 restored 100% etc etc orig..to ERIWINES vintage motorcycle/bicycle auction in Chicago.
No reserve.
It sold for 2700.00.  Alot of people 'cut corners' restoring bikes.  I try not to cut any.  There should be added value to that effort.
Bob Strucel, Tim B, Dave Stromberger... have all realized top market returns on the bikes they've restored.

We can all restore bikes, it takes some practice to get to a certain level... it's achievable for all over time I would think...but maybe not
right out of the gate.
I did apologize for the neg remark...but I just felt that the vultures were circling to take advantage of a seller unfamiliar with the market...
And?
I knew how much work went in to restoring Bob Halls bike and how he pretty much went all out to make it correct.  Very few restored
bikes get that level of attention.
You all need to realize how the word "restored" can vary based on the effort made and results.

on a side note.......

As much as I love the look of restored bikes, I prefer unrestored examples.  It's way too stressful for a clumsy dolt like myself to have something
as large as a mint and perfect restoration laying around....I'm going to end up jacking it up somehow accidentally.   I scratch the orig bike? 
i don't cry in my beer.


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## TheSaint

Unrestored examples should be put away in those dark dark BatCaves and
BatBasements never to be seen again
such as BobCycles' Vault of Horror....

The restored examples SHOULD be ridden, chipped and shown everywhere!

Clumsy dolt excuses do not abide here


My $10

TheSaint


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## 2jakes

*Light at the end of ......*






_It looks like we're almost there !_


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## HIGGINSFOREVER

I would just like to add------------------aaahhh hell i forgot what i was going to say.


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## babyjesus

TheSaint said:


> The restored examples SHOULD be ridden, chipped and shown everywhere!
> 
> Clumsy dolt excuses do not abide here
> 
> TheSaint




I agree - they should be ridden - what a waste otherwise.


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## 2jakes

*Schwinn Autocycle appraisal*



HIGGINSFOREVER said:


> I would just like to add------------------aaahhh hell i forgot what i was going to say.




*Was it this ?*


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## WES PINCHOT

*Nice conclusion!*

Amen, amen, amen!


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## TheSaint

Amen?!?

Keep this thread ALIVE at least till 2017
and when the Zombies reach Bobcycles'
Vault
of 
Horror!

Baaaaaah Ha hAaaaaa Haaaaaa
to the White Sneaker Old Man Jean People of the USA!!!!!!!


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## Hb Twinn

*What happened*

So... Is the bike still for sale and if not WHAT did it SELL for?
Asked for my simple appraisers knowledge.


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## SJ_BIKER

*errrr*

If my name was BBC.....it would be easily worth 50000 bucks


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## skydog

Follow this one and let the market tell you: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-SCHWINN-LIBERTY-B6-MENS-TANK-BIKE-VINTAGE-BICYCLE-DELUXE-AUTOCYCLE-S2-LIGHT-/121138359636?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3468ad54

Or better yet, this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1948-Schwinn-B-6-Autocycle-Tank-Bicycle-Vintage-Cruiser-Bike-Drum-Brake-Phantom-/111097144049?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19dde7e2f1


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## Larmo63

I don't believe either of those bikes are as good as the black one.....

No comparison. (maybe the maroon one....?) Maybe.......


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