# iver johnson track bike question



## kccomet (Dec 5, 2013)

i picked up an iver track bike today, crusty, broken top tube. my question its red paint, a really old crusty red paint. could this be original   color. the forks also painted red which is chrome,nickel underneath. ive owned a couple of ivers that were true racers, they were both green with nickel forks, and maybe nickel head tubes, i cant remember... old age. first look thought definite repaint, its red.no decal. did they chrome or nickel the complete frames on these bikes. oh yea its got a chater lea crank. i love chater lea. ive got the bike apart already, but ill mock it up for a pic if any interest . i know theres some knowledgeable iver geeks on here. i dont want to sell the bike just like to learn....thanks


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Dec 5, 2013)

I would love to see it!
Probably could have had a chrome head post.
It most likely was Rajah Red frame color with a chrome fork.


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## redline1968 (Dec 5, 2013)

Never seen a full nickel plate frame and fork. They don't exist. Head tube and fork are to be nickel for special racer and the chatter lea is on the 21 in frame.


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## ivrjhnsn (Dec 5, 2013)

Most repaints never removed original colors from inside the frame tubes , best way to check original colors unless painter was extremely
thorough .


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## kccomet (Dec 5, 2013)

so should the fork be painted,along with the head tube, they are. its a crusty one,and im not looking to restore it, but i know i can make it look a little better. ill post a couple of pics tomorrow


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## ivrjhnsn (Dec 5, 2013)

kccomet said:


> so should the fork be painted,along with the head tube, they are. its a crusty one,and im not looking to restore it, but i know i can make it look a little better. ill post a couple of pics tomorrow




 Gotta pull fork and cups to get an accurate look . Nickel or chrome head / fork should not have paint in the head-tube . All comes down to how sure you want to be . Would enjoy seeing pics  .


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Dec 5, 2013)

Here is a mint original 1921 Diamond frame that a friend of mine detailed.
It was purchased new from an Oakland bicycle shop and was found in Alameda, Ca. and purchased from the original owner.


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## ivrjhnsn (Dec 5, 2013)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> Here is a mint original 1921 Diamond frame that a friend of mine detailed.
> It was purchased new from an Oakland bicycle shop and was found in Alameda, Ca. and purchased from the original owner.




  Is that one of yours ? THAT IS SWEEEET ! Beautiful ...


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Dec 5, 2013)

No. My friend, Gary, sold it to someone. Not sure who owns it, now.
He is one of the best bicycle restorers in the world. He has since moved to Oxnard, Ca.
The Radio Flyer Co. has his restored items.


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## Handyman (Dec 6, 2013)

*Iver Track Bike*

Love to see some pics...............................If this Iver has an original Chater Lea bottom bracket then its a model 90B Chater Lea Special Racer.  It should have a nickel plated head and fork and the frame should be either 21" or 23".  Does the Chater Lea chainring on the bike look like this pic that I have attached?  This is "Barney Winters" 1920 Iver Chater Lea Racer.


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## kccomet (Dec 6, 2013)

nope thats not the chain ring. i forgot iver had a chater lea model. i thought someone added the sprocket,were some what serious about go fast, and thats prob the case. id like to see a full pic of your chater lea model. i love true racers esp with some history. pics of my beast in the next hour


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## kccomet (Dec 6, 2013)

ok heres a few poor pics. serial number is 471621 which makes it...... its a 23 inch frame. my original question at the start of this post was, is, the fork and head tube. i can see the forks chrome or nickel and the head tube also. at first look thought poor red repaint, now im not sure if its old original paint. was going to strip the fork. i know i cant hurt this bike much but i like original crusty over shiny. good story on this bike, it was in a fairly high end estate sale. knew about it all week was planning to go a couple hours early like the pros do. talked myself out of going early because i thought the bike would be priced crazy. got there 5 minutes after it opened about 75 people already there. a guy i know had just bought the bike cheap,bought it from him for double plus, broken frame and all. it had this great rack on the back that really drew me to the bike,pics of what the rims looked like. thanks for any info iver collectors


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Dec 6, 2013)

Not mine.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Dec 6, 2013)

Impressive!


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Dec 6, 2013)

kccomet said:


> ok heres a few poor pics. serial number is 471621 which makes it...... its a 23 inch frame. my original question at the start of this post was, is, the fork and head tube. i can see the forks chrome or nickel and the head tube also. at first look thought poor red repaint, now im not sure if its old original paint. was going to strip the fork. i know i cant hurt this bike much but i like original crusty over shiny. good story on this bike, it was in a fairly high end estate sale. knew about it all week was planning to go a couple hours early like the pros do. talked myself out of going early because i thought the bike would be priced crazy. got there 5 minutes after it opened about 75 people already there. a guy i know had just bought the bike cheap,bought it from him for double plus, broken frame and all. it had this great rack on the back that really drew me to the bike,pics of what the rims looked like. thanks for any info iver collectors




You cannot devalue this IJ racer with a proper restoration.
It is so rare, desirable and is so gorgeous restored.
I would keep it original if it had decals on it, so you may as well restore it.


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## corbettclassics (Dec 6, 2013)

Here's my Iver Johnson "Special Racer" Chater-Lea model that is all original.  Sold it to a guy and he decided it was too patina original
and decided to change spokes ( put new ones in), changed bars, changed stem, changed seat etc.  It was his first bike and he
decided he didn't like the original look!!!!!!!!! I nearly had a heart attack …. ( bike is as raced back in the day! )


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## Velo-dream (Dec 6, 2013)

you should have sold it to me ....)


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Dec 6, 2013)

Too nice to restore!


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Dec 6, 2013)

It would be interesting to build a clone with a nickel-plated aluminum Chater Lea crankset.
Of course the crankset would be machined from billet aluminum with titanium crank pins.


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## Iverider (Dec 6, 2013)

kccomet said:


> ok heres a few poor pics. serial number is 471621 which makes it...... its a 23 inch frame. my original question at the start of this post was, is, the fork and head tube. i can see the forks chrome or nickel and the head tube also. at first look thought poor red repaint, now im not sure if its old original paint. was going to strip the fork. i know i cant hurt this bike much but i like original crusty over shiny. good story on this bike, it was in a fairly high end estate sale. knew about it all week was planning to go a couple hours early like the pros do. talked myself out of going early because i thought the bike would be priced crazy. got there 5 minutes after it opened about 75 people already there. a guy i know had just bought the bike cheap,bought it from him for double plus, broken frame and all. it had this great rack on the back that really drew me to the bike,pics of what the rims looked like. thanks for any info iver collectors




That Stem is NOT Iver...Probably just some cheap junk someone put on there for fun...

Or NOT!


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## Larmo63 (Dec 6, 2013)

So, the clear "C" and "L" on the sprocket HAVE to be Chatter Lea....right?

This bike is SICK.....I like it. The rack is junk, get it gone....Love the bike!


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## Handyman (Dec 6, 2013)

*Chater Lea Racer*

This bike is still a little puzzling to me.  If it is a 23" frame (only the 90A and 90B racer) and if it has an original Chater Lea bottom bracket (looks like it does) although its not the same CL chainring that's on the pics that were posted, then that tells me its a model 90B Chater Lea racer.  The one part that is still slightly questionable is the fork.  The fork looks like an IJ "Airlight" fork although I'm not sure.  I believe the racing fork was slightly more "flat" looking along its length and not as "rounded" as the one pictured.  KCComet, is it possible to see any stampings on the hubs??  A Chater Lea racer would have had Chater Lea hubs and the wood wheels would have a very high "V" shaped profile.


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## kccomet (Dec 6, 2013)

its definite a 23 inch frame. when i saw the chater lea got a little pumped, although i forgot iver even made a cl racer. chater lea was the the campy of the day. bsa was used a lot, but i think chater lea was a little more exotic. as stated ive got a couple of early racers with this chain ring which is different than ij cl racer pics being shown. would the year of the bike change with the cl chain ring. will one of you ij nuts answer my question should the fork and head tube be painted,or do we have to determine the model first. the fork i thought looked a little different than i remember my other ijs. i thought some one early put some serious cranks cl on the bike. it would be cool to find out its a chater l racer. the hubs along with everything else could have been changed, was hoping they were ij s. rear is a new departure, front is a bendix. heres a close up of the fork


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## ivrjhnsn (Dec 6, 2013)

kccomet said:


> its definite a 23 inch frame. when i saw the chater lea got a little pumped, although i forgot iver even made a cl racer. chater lea was the the campy of the day. bsa was used a lot, but i think chater lea was a little more exotic. as stated ive got a couple of early racers with this chain ring which is different than ij cl racer pics being shown. would the year of the bike change with the cl chain ring. will one of you ij nuts answer my question should the fork and head tube be painted,or do we have to determine the model first. the fork i thought looked a little different than i remember my other ijs. i thought some one early put some serious cranks cl on the bike. it would be cool to find out its a chater l racer. the hubs along with everything else could have been changed, was hoping they were ij s. rear is a new departure, front is a bendix. heres a close up of the fork




  Well , the fork could have been replaced . It is an Iver fork  , but possibly newer year . The bike is circa 1929  with a circa 1934 fork .  My opinion .
With the frame repair , could have crashed a few times when racing .


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## kccomet (Dec 6, 2013)

thanks for the year so is it the chater lea model or who knows what


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## ivrjhnsn (Dec 6, 2013)

kccomet said:


> thanks for the year so is it the chater lea model or who knows what




  If it has the Chater Lea crank  , then yes . They had a different bottom bracket size for that model .


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Dec 6, 2013)

Fork looks original.
Measure the bottom bracket on frame.
The BB should be threaded for Chater Lea.


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## Handyman (Dec 7, 2013)

*Head Tube and Fork Finish*

I can only find one page of a brochure that shows the  "racers" and it describes chromium plating, I'm assuming it's 30's vintage.  This brochure, says under the "color" post that all racers had a chromium head and fork. I would guess that earlier they were nickel plated.  Its very possible that earlier models were painted the frame color.  Does anyone have any earlier racer specs to post or can anyone post a pic of a racer with a painted head tube?


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## ivrjhnsn (Dec 7, 2013)

Here's the bike from a 1925 catalog  . Specs on their bikes didn't change much if at all over the years .   Gotta get these copied and over to Brian for referencing  . So much to do ,so little time  .


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## Handyman (Dec 16, 2013)

*Chater Lea Hubs*

kccomet,
Probably the most difficult part to find if you plan on restoring this Iver Racer will be the Chater Lea hubs.  There is a set on eBay right now and although they are a little "newer" than your bike, they are Chater Lea and would work.  They are also 40/32 spoke as the Iver specs say they should be.  If I were you, I'd grab them. Pete in Fitchburg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-194...035?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c346c96b


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## kccomet (Dec 16, 2013)

thanks for the heads up on the hubs. im not sure yet what ill do with this bike. i collect old racers and dont have an iver anymore besides this one. finding out its a chater lea makes it more interesting to me, but im not much on restored bikes. after looking at it closer its been repainted, the fork is nickel, not sure about the head tube. if i did restore it would be copper. i love the copper color on ivers.i guess the sprocket is wrong on this bike, im asking....thanks for all the interest and information


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## Handyman (Feb 17, 2014)

*Iver Johnson 90B Chater Lea Racer*

kccomet,

The chainring is not wrong on that bike.  It is a Chater Lea chainring and  I've seen other Iver Johnson racers with that identical chainring.  Just to stick my neck out here, I believe the Iver Johnson company may have used different Chater Lea chainrings during different years.  So far I've seen two different Chater Lea chainrings on Ivers. The frame size is correct (23") and as far as I know 21" and 23" were unique to the Chater Lea model 90B Ivers. I still think I'd go the restoration route on this bike, it's got a lot going for it.   Pete in Fitchburg


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## Velo-dream (Feb 18, 2014)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> Not mine.




 for sale somewhere.... ?

grtz

kris, antwerp


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## Duchess (Feb 18, 2014)

Just went through this thread and it answers a great question for me about my own ~1909 Special Racer: where did the 2 annoying seatstay dents in an otherwise beautifully kept frame come from? The bracket on that interesting rack you have that was made to match the exact angle of the seatstays would fit in the same place that I have the dents on mine. Is that an IJ rack or were seatstay angles that close among manufacturers back then?

I'm not sure if this helps, but mine has the nickel head tube and a fork painted black with gold pinstripe to match the frame over a nickel plated base. However, it's not a standard IJ fork that I've seen, but I have seen the same fork on an ad for a contemporary Peerless, so I don't know if it was a very early replacement for damage (which seems odd to me as it's in otherwise such good shape), an option from the factory or customer order, or a substitute by IJ perhaps due to some disorganization resulting in a shortage of forks.


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## Handyman (Mar 9, 2014)

*Iver Johnson Model 90 Road Racer with "Airlite" Fork*

I believe, although I'm not 100% sure, that an Iver Johnson, model 90 Road Racer just came up on ebay.  We have been discussing the racer in this thread and the issue seems to be the fork.  Well, I believe the "racer" in this eBay listing also has the "Airlite" fork and it appears to be original.  The chainring is also a 1/2" pitch which leads me to believe this was very late in production.  I'm beginning to believe (just guessing) that late in Iver Johnson's production, that "Airlite" frames and forks were used for the model 90 Road Racers.
Check it out: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1927-1929-V...575&&clkid=5369774260990175616&_qi=RTM1562569


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## kccomet (Apr 9, 2014)

been tinkering with the iver with my limited skills. this bike deserves a full restoration, but im not the one to do it. filed down the nasty weld, stripped some of the fork and head tube. replaced the sprocket,cleaned up the rims some what. i was ready to throw in the towel on this one. i mocked it together today, and its kind of growin on me. the nickel has quite a bit of rust,,ideas on making it look better. it needs a lot more hours and a lot more love


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