# PayPal Changes



## Freqman1 (Jul 4, 2022)

Like most I recieve notices and just click past or delete them. Yesterday I received one from PP and actually read it. Looks like they are cracking down on Friends and Family (FF) between businesses or to/from a business. I have a feeling it won't be much longer before FF either goes away or is very restrictive. Between the shipping and paying it's getting tougher to sell bikes/parts long distance. It's especially tough on entry level or low cost stuff--just ain't worth it. Looks like the money order business might pick up or some of the alternate payment methods such as Zelle may see more business if its someone you trust. That or start attending more swaps! V/r Shawn


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## catfish (Jul 4, 2022)

USPS Money Orders


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## cyclingday (Jul 4, 2022)

Yep!
Reverting back to the old way.
Polaroids, and USPS Money Orders.
Ahh!
The good old days, when it took six weeks to consummate a transaction.
Lol!


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## Billythekid (Jul 4, 2022)

Just to put it out there I paid $600 through a post office money order for a whizzer from San Francisco California never received the Whizzer in the mail I have the guys name and address because you have to put that on the post office money order the post office is zero help with the situation I called California police and they have told me that I have to first call my local police then call back and give them that reference number 

I currently have not went to my local police and filed the report just want to let anyone known that the post office is not much help when it comes to money orders gone bad


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## cyclingday (Jul 4, 2022)

I had a situation, where the post office on the other end wouldn’t cash the money order that was sent.
Everything eventually got worked out, but it took several trips to the post office, and several re issues to get it done.
I’m not sure what the problem was, but I suspect it was the small town post office on the other end.
That’s the only issue, I’ve ever had sending USPS money orders.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Jul 4, 2022)

if you want fewer sales, insist on USPS money orders. it would probably take an hour for me to get a USPS money order, and my post office is only 5 miles away.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Jul 4, 2022)

Billythekid said:


> Just to put it out there I paid $600 through a post office money order for a whizzer from San Francisco California never received the Whizzer in the mail



was that bike on here? I think I saw it and contacted the guy, told him I was local and he did not respond.


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## catfish (Jul 4, 2022)

Cash


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## phantom (Jul 4, 2022)

catfish said:


> Cash



I have done that a few times here as a seller and a buyer with signature required.


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## Billythekid (Jul 4, 2022)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> was that bike on here? I think I saw it and contacted the guy, told him I was local and he did not respond.



Yes it was in the forsale section it was weird he took the bike apart and packed it I got pics of all that but I guess that was part of his scam


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## Dave Stromberger (Jul 4, 2022)

catfish said:


> USPS Money Orders



But then I'd have to leave the house! The horror!


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## Darthvader (Jul 4, 2022)

Does anyone write down what they pay for stuff and keep it in a record for 20 years? I don't understand why if it's sold for a profit why it will be taxed while if it's sold for a loss it cant be taken as a full write off. Something seems criminal here.


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## Freqman1 (Jul 4, 2022)

Darthvader said:


> Does anyone write down what they pay for stuff and keep it in a record for 20 years? I don't understand why if it's sold for a profit why it will be taxed while if it's sold for a loss it cant be taken as a full write off. Something seems criminal here.



Yes I do keep a record. It isn’t that hard to maintain a spreadsheet


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## Darthvader (Jul 4, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> Yes I do keep a record. It isn’t that hard to maintain a spreadsheet



Well 300 bikes and countess parts and peices is a little to much for me unleass I hire someone. Plus many of the deals were bundled. A bit hard to unbundle for tax reporting.


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## koolbikes (Jul 4, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> Like most I recieve notices and just click past or delete them. Yesterday I received one from PP and actually read it. Looks like they are cracking down on Friends and Family (FF) between businesses or to/from a business. I have a feeling it won't be much longer before FF either goes away or is very restrictive. Between the shipping and paying it's getting tougher to sell bikes/parts long distance. It's especially tough on entry level or low cost stuff--just ain't worth it. Looks like the money order business might pick up or some of the alternate payment methods such as Zelle may see more business if its someone you trust. That or start attending more swaps! V/r Shawn



I'm for attending more Swap Meets, you get to actually see what your getting, haggle on a price, meet the seller, and pay CASH or SWAP! ... Some of my best finds are from Swap Meets ... No feedback, No Shipping Hassles, No Taxes. No Uncle Sam. etc....


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Jul 4, 2022)

Darthvader said:


> I don't understand why if it's sold for a profit why it will be taxed while if it's sold for a loss it cant be taken as a full write off. *Something seems criminal here.*



we ain't seen nothin' yet.


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## STRADALITE (Jul 4, 2022)

If PayPal becomes a problem there is always the option of writing a check. Occasionally I’ll send or accept a check. Wait until it clears then send the item. It sure beats going to the post office.


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## SirMike1983 (Jul 4, 2022)

Yes - if you keep a record of your basis in the item, you can prove level of profit or loss. I will say with the new Paypal 1099 limits, if you're dealing in higher value bikes and parts, you'll want to keep a record of your basis in the item. It may not be a big deal for a $20 3 speed hub, but if you're dealing in expensive parts and bikes, you want to know your basis in the item.


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## Jose 711 (Jul 5, 2022)

VenMo or zelle is the best for me.


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## koolbikes (Jul 5, 2022)

cyclingday said:


> Yep!
> Reverting back to the old way.
> Polaroids, and USPS Money Orders.
> Ahh!
> ...



Recently I have reverted back to using USPS or Bank {which are Free} Money Orders with success and are easy to track, I know it takes a little longer for a transaction and most don't mind getting them either. What I have been doing in sending a M.O. to seller is take a photo of M.O. filled out in sellers name and send them a picture with mailing date to assure that they know it has been sent.  Same goes for when the seller sends item to you, tracking numbers. Only took seven days on my last transaction.


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## bleedingfingers (Jul 5, 2022)

In Canada if you trust the person you are dealing with you just use Interac or e banking .
very small fee money comes from your bank and goes to your bank instantly  no waiting .
I don't think you can use it cross border though which  is too bad .

I have not had much faith in PayPal since I bought counterfeit merchandise on eBay and PayPal sided with the seller when I made a claim .
I shut the seller down buy contacting the company that made the real item and they made PayPal remove the item but the seller still is on eBay .

It was hard enough before for me to get stuff from the US. with exchange PayPal fee's and shipping (Canadian shipping rates are no joke now either ).
Paypal is also dinging us for taxes now on cross border transactions 🙁
Can only hope things get better until then guess I'll build up some CCM stuff.


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## bikesnbuses (Jul 6, 2022)

I believe this?;

*Effective July 28, 2022:*


U.S. business accounts will not be able to receive personal transactions from U.S. PayPal accounts.
U.S. PayPal accounts will not be able to send personal transactions to U.S. business accounts.
The rate for the “Send/Receive Money for Goods and Services” payment type will be 2.99% (with no fixed fee). This pricing change will result in fee increases for some transactions. You can preview the Merchant Fees page that will be effective on July 28, 2022, following such changes.


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## SirMike1983 (Jul 6, 2022)

bikesnbuses said:


> I believe this?;
> 
> *Effective July 28, 2022:*
> 
> ...




That sounds about right. I can understand their reasoning, but it's going to make life more expensive for some transactions while driving others to different payment venues. It's true that Friends and Family was not meant for a business sale of goods type transaction, and it certainly leaves the buyer unprotected. But people were doing it and may get frustrated just the same. There's theory and then there's practice, as they say. Perhaps the competition will take advantage of the change to capture more market share. That's not easy, but it can happen if people become frustrated enough.


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## gkeep (Jul 6, 2022)

PayPal marketing/legal department gave up on writing the next Shakespeare play?


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## cyclingday (Jul 6, 2022)

It’s Putin’s, PayPal Price Plan.


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## JimScott (Jul 9, 2022)

Portland Oregon post offices will steal you blind


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## Yates/ vintage (Jul 9, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> Like most I recieve notices and just click past or delete them. Yesterday I received one from PP and actually read it. Looks like they are cracking down on Friends and Family (FF) between businesses or to/from a business. I have a feeling it won't be much longer before FF either goes away or is very restrictive. Between the shipping and paying it's getting tougher to sell bikes/parts long distance. It's especially tough on entry level or low cost stuff--just ain't worth it. Looks like the money order business might pick up or some of the alternate payment methods such as Zelle may see more business if its someone you trust. That or start attending more swaps! V/r Shawn



I sold A bike and PayPal put my money on hold for 21 days


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## phantom (Jul 9, 2022)

Yates/ vintage said:


> I sold A bike and PayPal put my money on hold for 21 days



A private transaction or through E bay ?


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## Dra (Jul 9, 2022)

I’ve told that to a few cabe seller’s that they haven’t received any payment. Then when I check PayPal says that there waiting for the seller to claim the payment. Then nobody has heard of that happening so I’d have to cancel and try it all over again. Maybe if the sellers would include the fee in their price and stay away from FF it will go through?I’ve been using usps or cash both are the same. The money order way can be cashed at the same time the person is shipping your purchase but it’s a way to definitely get robbed. Once someone gets some easy coin it is shared with all there honest friends so it’s going to spread. I had one purchase rub me the wrong way so before I sent the mo off I looked up the address with realtor.com and found out that person has lived there for 18 years so I had no problem with sending it. Don’t you just love modern technology like I really knew how to spell that. Good luck to all


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## borgward (Jul 9, 2022)

I have diferent problem w/ PayPal. They will not let me login to my account that I have had for years because I do not have a Cell Phone. We can not get cell connection because house is in low place. Not going to pay for cell and have to walk up a hill to use it.


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## GTs58 (Jul 9, 2022)

borgward said:


> I have diferent problem w/ PayPal. They will not let me login to my account that I have had for years because I do not have a Cell Phone. We can not get cell connection because house is in low place. Not going to pay for cell and have to walk up a hill to use it.




Better get with today's devices! In a year or two there aren't going to be any physical banking facilities left so you won't be able to deposit your checks, you'll need to scan them with your phone. I have a flip phone, but Little Ceasars no longer takes call in orders, you have to order online with their app using your smartass phone.


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## phantom (Jul 10, 2022)

borgward said:


> I have diferent problem w/ PayPal. They will not let me login to my account that I have had for years because I do not have a Cell Phone. We can not get cell connection because house is in low place. Not going to pay for cell and have to walk up a hill to use it.



I think I saw that in one of the Snuffy Smith Sunday strips.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Jul 10, 2022)

Dave Stromberger said:


> But then I'd have to leave the house! The horror!



... for an *hour* when paypal takes 2 minutes.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Jul 10, 2022)

borgward said:


> I have diferent problem w/ PayPal. They will not let me login to my account that I have had for years because I do not have a Cell Phone. We can not get cell connection because house is in low place. Not going to pay for cell and have to walk up a hill to use it.



there must be another reason, I have a cell, but paypal will not accept the number when I put it in. I can buy no problem, but when I sell things here I have to send a money request to be paid.


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## piercer_99 (Jul 10, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> Better get with today's devices! In a year or two there aren't going to be any physical banking facilities left so you won't be able to deposit your checks, you'll need to scan them with your phone. I have a flip phone, but Little Ceasars no longer takes call in orders, you have to order online with their app using your smartass phone.



I don't know about financial centers going away, that is what we who build banks call them, as that is what the banks call them.

We have 3 years of starts for new buildings on our books now.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Jul 10, 2022)

the plan is a cashless society. there are many people who cash their paycheck at the liquor store and have no bank account. I have a buddy like that, nicest guy you will ever meet, but just not too bright. told me once he is "not good at mathematics" when I had a yard sale and he brought a few things over. he did not know how to give people change.

a cashless society allows the government to keep track of your spending, and to take your money away any time they want for any reason like posting facts online that are no approved.


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## GTs58 (Jul 10, 2022)

piercer_99 said:


> I don't know about financial centers going away, that is what we who build banks call them, as that is what the banks call them.
> 
> We have 3 years of starts for new buildings on our books now.




I was being somewhat facetious. The bank I use has/had multiple smaller facilities in the Valley for a quicker convenient access, but they are closing them down along with drastically cutting their staff down and their operating hours. During the last four years I've had countless issues doing banking transactions whereas before that time I've only had two issues during my entire lifetime. This is with the same bank account that I've had since 1983. Last week I tried to deposit three checks in the ATM. On the machine it says you can install up to 28 checks. The machine kicked out my three checks saying it couldn't process them. WTH. About two years ago I deposited a check in the ATM that was written out for 1600 + and after the machine took the check it went nuts going into a reboot and flashing all kinds of BS on the screen and then it just died. After calls talking to multiple different agents in India, my check was lost for 5 days and they still couldn't find it. I had to take off work to get this all straightened out, and it took the person 30 minutes on the phone to get it resolved and the funds put in my account. 
So I'm thinking of getting a smartass phone so I can scan/photo my checks and deposit them along with ordering my Pizza with their app on my phone since they don't answer their phone for orders any longer.  🤣


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## piercer_99 (Jul 10, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> I was being somewhat facetious. The bank I use has/had multiple smaller facilities in the Valley for a quicker convenient access, but they are closing them down along with drastically cutting their staff down and their operating hours. During the last four years I've had countless issues doing banking transactions whereas before that time I've only had two issues during my entire lifetime. This is with the same bank account that I've had since 1983. Last week I tried to deposit three checks in the ATM. On the machine it says you can install up to 28 checks. The machine kicked out my three checks saying it couldn't process them. WTH. About two years ago I deposited a check in the ATM that was written out for 1600 + and after the machine took the check it went nuts going into a reboot and flashing all kinds of BS on the screen and then it just died. After calls talking to multiple different agents in India, my check was lost for 5 days and they still couldn't find it. I had to take off work to get this all straightened out, and it took the person 30 minutes on the phone to get it resolved and the funds put in my account.
> So I'm thinking of getting a smartass phone so I can scan/photo my checks and deposit them along with ordering my Pizza with their app on my phone since they don't answer their phone for orders any longer.  🤣



there are quite a few financial institutions phasing out the role of teller, and automating most of the face to face transactions, yet for every front line job they get rid of, they add two administrative positions to support the automation.   It is insane.


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## This-nthat (Jul 10, 2022)

Billythekid said:


> Yes it was in the forsale section it was weird he took the bike apart and packed it I got pics of all that but I guess that was part of his scam



Yeah it was probably someone else’s pictures they stole. It’s a good idea to have them send a picture with their name on a piece of paper or something in front of the item being sold then you know it’s theirs.


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## partsguy (Jul 12, 2022)

If anything good comes of this, it will hopefully be more swaps, and people interacting face to face.


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## Yates/ vintage (Jul 16, 2022)

phantom said:


> A private transaction or through E bay ?



Private


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## kos22us (Sep 25, 2022)

my understanding is if you receive 600- or more through ebay/paypal you must file a tax form at the end of the year, if you sell here on the cabe and only take paypal as FF, does that get you out of the tax filing ?


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Sep 25, 2022)

kos22us said:


> my understanding is if you receive 600- or more through ebay/paypal you must file a tax form at the end of the year, if you sell here on the cabe and only take paypal as FF, does that get you out of the tax filing ?



I am pretty sure that is the case, we will all know better after this year's tax season.  😩


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## BatWaves (Sep 25, 2022)

Venmo


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## GTs58 (Sep 26, 2022)

BatWaves said:


> Venmo




I just read that venmo is also required to do the same as Pay Pal.


kos22us said:


> my understanding is if you receive 600- or more through ebay/paypal you must file a tax form at the end of the year, if you sell here on the cabe and only take paypal as FF, does that get you out of the tax filing ?




If you are selling on eBay and a buyer pays you thru Pay Pal, venmo etc. then that is recorded. After $600 in that year, they are required to send you a 1099 with that years gross amount that you have been given from buyers. I assume it's the gross amount before the ebay and Pay Pay fees are take out. Then you have to claim that amount as income when you file your income taxes, but you only have to pay taxes on your adjusted gross income. How much of that total income from selling on eBay that can be deducted off your total gross income is the issue here, and a PITA keeping all the records *of the things Uncle Sam will actually let you deduct *off your sales. Like eBay fees, Pay Pal fees, shipping costs, packing costs, your cost of item sold, overhead like paper, ink, office rent, coffee, asprin or anything else that cost you money that was involved in the sale that can actually be deducted. You will need have records to show that you did not make any profit on each and every sale if you want to be tax free on the amount that eBay has on that 1099. *If someone sends you money as friends and Family, then it is not recorded.* Back in the day some eBay sellers would take or require money orders and that money transaction had no third party involved, so there were no records of an actual transfer of funds. Those days are long gone. Finding out what all you can deduct doing an eBay sale might require some help from a tax man or someone that actually knows. Years ago I was really surprised at how little you could actually deduct and it's probably even less today.


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## catfish (Sep 26, 2022)

Personal checks are good too.


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## SirMike1983 (Sep 26, 2022)

The $600 1099-K threshold for goods/services also applies to Venmo and similar because the new ceiling was part of the ARPA law passed by Congress. Form 1099-K went from having a floor of $20,000 in aggregate payments and 200 transactions to a threshold of $600 in aggregate payments regardless of number of transactions. The new rule is effective beginning with payment transactions settled after December 31, 2021. The effect of the rule is you get $600 at Venmo, $600 at Paypal, and so on. The number of IRS agents on-staff to enforce these requirements also increased recently via the Inflation Reduction Act.

Personally, I think the changes are ridiculous and just grab the small-time hobbyist. The government is avaricious if nothing else.

That said, some people prefer to use creative payment methods to evade taxes, but in the grand scheme, that is not a good idea. If you prefer checks, cash, money orders, etc., that's fine for personal convenience or preference, but getting creative to evade taxes is not worth the trouble that is federal tax evasion. If you have substantial income from bike stuff, best to deal squarely and pay taxes.


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## JimScott (Sep 26, 2022)

All of this will be for not as the economy is being flipped to crypto by years end... USC (United States Crypto) already exists on the global currentcy exchange held at artifical strength @ $1USC=$1USD. This is not a Alex Jones conspiracy. 

Look at your change... this "change shortage" was nothing but a scrubbing and audit of what was in the market. They took all of the older coinage and minted all 2020 and 2021 coins instead. They even tried a paper money "shortage" for a short time also. Just watch what theyre doing, the warnings have come now for over 20 months. 
Pre 1982 pennies are worth 3.2 cents, pre 1995 nickles are 7 cents... typical electric car battery has: 25 pounds of lithium *60 pounds* of nickel 44 pounds of manganese 30 pounds cobalt 200 pounds of copper 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic The first 4 ingredients are from limited sources and will continue to rise in cost.

Chase bank is leading the way internally not only for USC but pushing the "no financing" on gas powered vehicles. If you cant finance it there will be no market.


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## kos22us (Sep 26, 2022)

thanks for the insight, anyone can say hey if you're doing business you have to pay tax ,but I say when the threshold goes from 19,999.99 down to 600- that is a radical change


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