# Shelby built Hiawatha date code help??



## hcdsign (Nov 23, 2012)

Hello, I just purchased this mish-mash of a parts bike to build a rat bike based on the Shelby frame lines.  It has a serial #V12857.  From what I resarched, Shelby didnt date code in the serial#.  Is there any frame construction clues that can put a pre or post war date of construction??  The previous owner thought the bike was late 1930's to early 1940's.  I paid a post war mis-matched price for the bike, so either way, I think Im sitting good.  If it is indeed a pre-war frame I would try to find more correct-to-the-bike parts.  As compared to if it is a post war bike, then let the frankenstien build begin!!  Thank you for any input that you may have!!


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## OldRider (Nov 23, 2012)

I'm the furthest thing you ever saw from a Shelby expert but that chainring does not look Shelby....Monark maybe? Thats a cantilever frame, my guess is postwar. Good luck with your build!


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## hcdsign (Nov 23, 2012)

There is not a doubt in my mind that potentially everything on that frame is not correct to the frame, including the chain ring.  Hiawathas were made by several manufacturers, including Shelby for Gambles.  It would also appear that the late post war Hiawatha frames produced by Shelby have have more of a loop-tail look in the rear.  Not that I have researched it to death, but I have found what appears to be this frame called out as a 1940 Shelby Supreme over at nostalgic.net. (Thank you for the reference material!!!)  So there could be a slight shot of luck that it may be pre-war.  

http://www.nostalgic.net/bicycle141


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## 1918 Ranger (Nov 23, 2012)

Just for comparison. Here are 2 of my 55 Shelby Airflo's. 










1918 Ranger


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## 1918 Ranger (Nov 23, 2012)

Looks like the same frame but I've not researched Hiawatha badged Shelby frames like this. 


1918 Ranger


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## dougfisk (Nov 23, 2012)

A lot of ambiguity here... the frame was obviously used pre and post-war.  I think the answer will be found in the headbadge, the only part not easily or logically changed.  I THINK I have a headbadge like that on a clearly pre-war Murray-built.  Research the use of that headbadge is your best angle(?)


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## spoker (Nov 24, 2012)

*hiawatha date*

i have a 1942 gambles hiawatha with that head badge,later ones came with a native american head side view and gambles on it,your frame looks like a sheby saftey bike,my frame is more like a schwinn straight bar frame,mine alsohas a gill tank without a horn,serial number b38-053,under bottom bracket


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## dougfisk (Nov 24, 2012)

dougfisk said:


> ... the frame was obviously used pre and post-war.  I think the answer will be found in the headbadge, the only part not easily or logically changed.  I THINK I have a headbadge like that on a clearly pre-war Murray-built....




OK, I just went out and checked:  My 1938 Murray-built Hiawatha uses the same Headbadge.   So you've got 2 confirmed examples of this headbadge being used prewar.  If you can confirm Spokers opinion of its' last use, you have your range.


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## hcdsign (Nov 24, 2012)

*Wow!! Great sluething guys!!!*

I am very impressed with the knowledge of the members here on thecabe!  to narrow down the year range by head badge style is genius.  I did notice that my frame was not typical of most of the Shelby produced Hiawathas.  What is the Saftey Bike?  Is it worth recovery, rather than ratting out?  I would imagine that if it is worth recovering, it would be a forture to complete since all of the money parts are gone. (tank, light, guard, rack, ect)

Again a BIG THANK YOU!! to all that provided input thus far.  I hope that when I am a few more years into the hobby I can help people just like you all have helped me.

If anyone has input on the Saftey Bike, please let me know, because I dont have a clue.  (but I will try to due some investgating shortly)

HAPPY T-DAY everybody!
Howie.


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## spoker (Nov 24, 2012)

*saftey bike*

do a search on this site for shelby saftey bike ,u can also google itor search ebay ive seen alot of safty catalogs on ebay


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## hcdsign (Nov 24, 2012)

*Google search*

Started a search on Google, which pointed me right back at thecabe.  The link below is a coversation on the train head badge.  Basiclly the member says that the train emblem was used as early as 1939, if not earlier, but no later that WW2 that he knows of.  

This doesnt exactly lock me down as pre-war, but another member agreeing with our train of thought.  (lol, had to use it) 

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?4499-Curious-about-my-Hiawatha

Thanks, Howie.


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## hcdsign (Dec 31, 2012)

*Looks like the same frame but I've not researched Hiawatha badged Shelby frames like*

1918 Ranger, 

I have done some research into getting a tank for my bike, and it would appear that my frame is slightly different than yours.  Your bike has the bottom bar where the tank is, meeting the front bar of the frame at a 90 degree angle.  Where as mine keeps a more horizontal profile.  My bike also take the teardrop tank, aka the donald duck tank, aka safe-t-bike tank.

I am lead to believe that my frame is late prewar, or early post war.  This isnt much info, just some small subtle differences that i found in research.

Thanks again for everybodys input, it is much appreciated!!!
Howie.




1918 Ranger said:


> Looks like the same frame but I've not researched Hiawatha badged Shelby frames like this.
> 
> 
> 1918 Ranger


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