# What defines a No-Nose?



## Stinky_Sullivan (Sep 9, 2013)

I know they are Shelby made and share a lot of characteristics with the Hiawatha's but that's it. What year range are they? How do you identify it in a crowd of other Shelby built bikes?


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## Freqman1 (Sep 9, 2013)

The No-nose is a model of both Shelby and Hiawatha branded bikes. It is a big tank bike just like the Speedlines/Arrows but the tank does not extend past the head tube as on a Speedline or Arrow.

No Nose


  Speedline


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## Nickinator (Sep 9, 2013)

Snub Nose



Nick.



Freqman1 said:


> The No-nose is a model of both Shelby and Hiawatha branded bikes. It is a big tank bike just like the Speedlines/Arrows but the tank does not extend past the head tube as on a Speedline or Arrow.
> 
> No NoseView attachment 112903  Speedline View attachment 112904


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## Freqman1 (Sep 9, 2013)

Nickinator said:


> Snub NoseView attachment 112915
> 
> Nick.




Actually that would be a Hiawatha Arrow. V/r Shawn


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## bricycle (Sep 9, 2013)

..a no nose is any bike that doesn't wear a $2000 tank....


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## Stinky_Sullivan (Sep 9, 2013)

Are those fender braces characteristic of a no-nose or are the flat braces on some?


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## Gary Mc (Sep 9, 2013)

Stinky_Sullivan said:


> Are those fender braces characteristic of a no-nose or are the flat braces on some?




Every Airflow/Arrow & No-Nose I've ever seen all had the curved braces.


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## Nickinator (Sep 9, 2013)

no, snub noses were fitted on shelbys too.




Nick.



Freqman1 said:


> Actually that would be a Hiawatha Arrow. V/r Shawn


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## Freqman1 (Sep 10, 2013)

Nickinator said:


> no, snub noses were fitted on shelbys too.
> View attachment 112965
> 
> Nick.




Some really strange bikes came out about late '40 through '41 regarding the big tank Airflos e.g. straight braces, guards, chainrings, seats, bars, racks, and frames. Generally speaking this is considered an Arrow tank while the one sloping the other way is a Speedline. Unfortunately Shelby seems to be a marque that lacks a true expert in the field? It gets me when I see a Schwinn thread and someone says "well it could have came like that because Schwinn just used whatever they had". This is pretty much total B.S. when it comes to Schwinns because of the supply lines they had. If this type of statement is applicable to any maker Shelby would probably win that prize because it does seem that they switched parts somewhat haphazardly. These are not facts merely my observations. Maybe after I finish my Five bar monograph I'll tackle the big tank Airflos but it would take a lot of work and a lot of help from my fellow CABErs to document these bikes. Also as I understand there is a certain person who is the keeper of the serial numbers and getting them would be near impossible. I would be interested to hear from anyone that may have insight into the pre war serial #s--Phil? V/r Shawn


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## z-bikes (Sep 11, 2013)

Gary Mc said:


> Every Airflow/Arrow & No-Nose I've ever seen all had the curved braces.




I had previously owned an original paint Hiawatha with the big Arrow tank but completely low end on everything else. It had the small guard, no fender ornament, plain flat carrier and straight fender braces. It did have the "optional" Stingray ape hanger handlebars!


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## Stinky_Sullivan (Sep 12, 2013)

Why are they called No-Nose?


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## Freqman1 (Sep 12, 2013)

Stinky_Sullivan said:


> Why are they called No-Nose?




I answered this in post #2 of this thread (see pics). The reason is because the tank does not extend beyond the head tube as on the Speedline or Arrow that have the headlight in the 'nose' of the tank. V/r Shawn


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## Stinky_Sullivan (Sep 12, 2013)

I assume this bike is not a no-nose because the fender braces are wrong.






Is there anything else that indicates it's not? The tank is right for a no-nose isn't it? All the no-nose tanks extend past the seat post, right?


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## cyclonecoaster.com (Sep 12, 2013)

*Thats not even a Shelby for one .....*



Stinky_Sullivan said:


> I assume this bike is not a no-nose because the fender braces are wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




At first glance the fenders are not Shelby ... at second glance the whole bike is not a Shelby .... The fork is not ... the frame should split up top before the seat tube ... the tank is not either ... chain ring could be ...


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 12, 2013)

cyclonecoaster.com said:


> Stinky_Sullivan said:
> 
> 
> > I assume this bike is not a no-nose because the fender braces are wrong.
> ...


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## Fltwd57 (Sep 12, 2013)

Stinky_Sullivan said:


> I assume this bike is not a no-nose because the fender braces are wrong.
> 
> Is there anything else that indicates it's not?




Everything indicates it's not... Different frame, fork, tank, fenders.. I'm no expert, but that appears to be D.P. Harris - at least the fork and truss rods are.

Check out the pic of Shawn's No-Nose again...


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 12, 2013)

this is getting over complicated. no-nose is a term for the Airflow tank without the nose. nothing to do with any other variation of Shelby tank, just the big Airflow tank, you know the big one that stays the same height all the way back with the insert in it. the green bike tapers at the rear of the tank and so isn't a no-nose at all.


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## Nickinator (Sep 12, 2013)

yet the bike has a dropstand clip?  so post war drop stand?

Nick.


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## Freqman1 (Sep 12, 2013)

Nickinator said:


> yet the bike has a dropstand clip?  so post war drop stand?
> 
> Nick.




Nick, wasn't this your bike at one time? V/r Shawn


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## dfa242 (Sep 12, 2013)

Let's just make it easier and go with this - Pic 1=Nose, Pic2=No-Nose


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## cyclonecoaster.com (Sep 12, 2013)

*Perfect --*



dfa242 said:


> Let's just make it easier and go with this - Pic 1=Nose, Pic2=No-Nose
> 
> View attachment 113357View attachment 113358




This will be the new standard ..... that being said - do we have to determine the bicycles age in dog years now ...  

Ride Vintage .. Frank


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## Gary Mc (Sep 12, 2013)

*Pics to simplify this*

Shelby Speedline Airflow with Light in nose of tank; tank extends around & past head tube






Shelby No-nose, Light on Fender, tank stops at head tube





Hiawatha Arrow with Light in nose of tank; tank extends around & past head tube





Hiawatha Arrow No-nose, Light goes on Fender although this bike doesn't have one, tank stops at head tube


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## dfa242 (Sep 12, 2013)

Oh, now there you go being sensible Gary - Man, I love that first pic!


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## cyclonecoaster.com (Sep 12, 2013)

*Mystery SOLVED ...*



Stinky_Sullivan said:


> I assume this bike is not a no-nose because the fender braces are wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*
That bike is probably a 1939 Rollfast ... not a Shelby ...*

A crusty one from online ... 




1 - 1939 Rollfast by CYCLONE FRANK, on Flickr

*HERE IS THE SPLIT around the seat tube on the Shelby big tank bikes *




1939 Shelby Super Airflo LARKIN 5 by CYCLONE FRANK, on Flickr


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 12, 2013)

that's not it Frank, the rear stays are flatter on the green bike. also there was a thread a couple years ago where we discussed these three tanks, the Huffman the Rollfast and the Shelby. the Rollfast tank is flatter on the side and thicker in the middle than this Shelby tank. the Shelby is closer in shape to the Huffman. you have to see them laying on the sidewalk together to really see the differences. I'll have to see if I can find the thread.


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## bricycle (Sep 12, 2013)

"What do you get when you cross a (no-nose dog, with a nose-nose dog)?........
...This: 
-English bull and Beagle mix-


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## cyclonecoaster.com (Sep 12, 2013)

*ALL I KNOW is that it is NOT a Shelby in the picture he provided .....*



37fleetwood said:


> that's not it Frank, the rear stays are flatter on the green bike. also there was a thread a couple years ago where we discussed these three tanks, the Huffman the Rollfast and the Shelby. the Rollfast tank is flatter on the side and thicker in the middle than this Shelby tank. the Shelby is closer in shape to the Huffman. you have to see them laying on the sidewalk together to really see the differences. I'll have to see if I can find the thread.




I found a closer example in my 5 minutes of research ... so that might be it Scott ...PLUS a Shelby tank ( No Nose ) has metal inserts as shown above on the tank sides .... close enough to me for now .... Frank


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## 37fleetwood (Sep 12, 2013)

ok, found it!

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?31909-Huffman-ID


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## RMS37 (Sep 12, 2013)

The bike in this thread is a prewar Shelby. There is a lot of confusion amongst collectors today about these bikes but I believe the easiest understanding comes from recognizing that Shelby produced two separate prewar full size (26”) boy’s frame lines or “families”. 


  From 1935 to 1941/42. The top tier models were built on the Airflow type frame which features the bifurcated top tube. The lower line models were built one of many variations of the frame/bike at the heart of this thread, which has one continuous top tube running from the head joint to a lugged joint at the seat tube juncture. 


  Each of these two lines had a number of variants constructed; probably more so for this second tier frame which is essentially a development of the earlier style frame construction used on the Shelby moto-balloon frames. I have seen several variations of this frame “family” including straight bars, rainbows, scimitars and more, and with a curved down tube, variations of this frame were also produced after the war.


  Regarding the tanks; the Snub-Nose, Shovel-Nose, and No-Nose names are all modern collector contrivances to describe variations of tanks designed to fit the top tier Airflow frames (and they do not fit the second tier line frames.) I don’t know if anyone has yet given names to the tanks used on the second tier lines.


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## Stinky_Sullivan (Sep 12, 2013)

cyclonecoaster.com said:


> *
> That bike is probably a 1939 Rollfast ... not a Shelby ...*




Head badge says Hiawatha.


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## dougfisk (Sep 12, 2013)

Stinky_Sullivan said:


> .





37fleetwood said:


> actually this one is a Shelby, just not a prewar one. being the Huffman guy you see these impostor Huffys every once in a while....




Scott:

1.  This model is pictured in Shelby 1939 sales literature... could that mean that the Huffys are actually Shelby imposters!  :eek:

2.  This model is Shelby's second tier, lower level, less expensive offering... why was Huffman aiming so low?


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## cyclonecoaster.com (Sep 12, 2013)

*ODD BIRD indeed ....*



37fleetwood said:


> ok, found it!
> 
> http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?31909-Huffman-ID




Well the headbadge was never mentioned until now either ... that is good information to have ... Just seeing all the incorrect parts on the example made me believe it was something else ... no expert as usual .. but fork & lack of parts made this a odd bird .. that OG Scott is great ... thanks for posting it .. Frank


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## RMS37 (Sep 12, 2013)

This bike has been up in several threads. I mentioned elsewhere that I would not discount the fork as original to this bike. I have collected several pictures of Shelby’s in original paint fitted with matching multi-plate crowned forks (Scrubbinrim’s Shelby Supreme for example). While the rust appears to have advanced faster on the fork that most of the rest of this bike, I would do some general forensic clean-up to look for matching green on the fork before I tossed it. For those still questioning the parentage of this bike I would recommend clear pictures of the upper fender bridge and of the seat binder and the seat joint cluster to clarify the Shelby pattern construction of this frame.


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## Nickinator (Sep 12, 2013)

that fork is 100% wrong, the threads on the fork are way higher then they should be if you notice it, this bike was mine originally. I had a good long look at it before i sold it 



RMS37 said:


> This bike has been up in several threads. I mentioned elsewhere that I would not discount the fork as original to this bike. I have collected several pictures of Shelby’s in original paint fitted with matching multi-plate crowned forks (Scrubbinrim’s Shelby Supreme for example). While the rust appears to have advanced faster on the fork that most of the rest of this bike, I would do some general forensic clean-up to look for matching green on the fork before I tossed it. For those still questioning the parentage of this bike I would recommend clear pictures of the upper fender bridge and of the seat binder and the seat joint cluster to clarify the Shelby pattern construction of this frame.


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## RMS37 (Sep 12, 2013)

Nickinator said:


> that fork is 100% wrong, the threads on the fork are way higher then they should be if you notice it, this bike was mine originally. I had a good long look at it before i sold it




There you have it, not original to this bike. Still the bike may have originally had a multi-plate crowned fork...or maybe not.


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## Stinky_Sullivan (Sep 12, 2013)

Those threads look like they're on the stem.


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## Freqman1 (Sep 12, 2013)

Stinky_Sullivan said:


> Those threads look like they're on the stem.




Is this your bike now? V/r Shawn


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## Fltwd57 (Sep 12, 2013)

Nickinator said:


> this bike was mine originally...




Come on Nick, you're not old enough to be the original owner


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## Stinky_Sullivan (Sep 12, 2013)

Yes, the bike is mine now.


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## Stinky_Sullivan (Sep 12, 2013)

I took a closer look at the stem and the fork and I see that the threads are NOT part of the stem. The fork definitely isn't right for this bike.


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## CeeBee (Sep 13, 2013)

Nickinator said:


> no, snub noses were fitted on shelbys too.
> View attachment 112965
> 
> Nick.




It is interesting to come here looking for more information on my bike, only to see my bike in my garage on my stand as an example of the bike I'm looking for information on!  Weird...
So I guess I have a Hiawatha Arrow tanked, nosed, no curve braced, non-swoopy barred Shelby.?.


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## Nickinator (Sep 13, 2013)

your bike is proof they didn't use that tank on only Hiawatha's  your bike is a shelby. just with weirder parts.

Nick.



CeeBee said:


> It is interesting to come here looking for more information on my bike, only to see my bike in my garage on my stand as an example of the bike I'm looking for information on!  Weird...
> So I guess I have a Hiawatha Arrow tanked, nosed, no curve braced, non-swoopy barred Shelby.?.


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## Stinky_Sullivan (Sep 13, 2013)

It's good to know I have options when I build my bike.


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