# Serial Number Verification Military G-519 Straight Bar?



## Mountain Trail Andy (Aug 27, 2020)

Hello military bicycle fans.  I acquired this bicycle 7 weeks ago as a frame only, in gray primer.  I noticed that the welds were very excessive/ heavy duty,  compared to any bikes that i have ever owned presently or in the past.  Knowing that the frame looked like my 1937 Sterling Westfield, I researched the serial number first on the Cabe and Mr. Columbia's old site.  Then I started acquiring parts.  I hope that hasn't been vain.  I am looking to see if this is the real deal, or if it will become a clone.  My guess is a 1944, but I'm not the expert on military bikes.  I look forward to your answers.  Thank you







.


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## Whitey1736 (Aug 27, 2020)

Looks like junk to me, I’ll Pay for shipping and give you my address though to help you get rid of it...

Anyways, I’d have to agree 1944


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## Euphman06 (Aug 27, 2020)

No expert here... But I believe only the military serial numbers start with MG, so seems pretty certain to me. If you would consider selling let me know

Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk


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## Mercian (Aug 27, 2020)

Hi @Mountain Trail Andy

MG14250A, L1 is a G519 frame.

It was made in January 1944, and is (so far) the latest known surviving frame of all G519 production.

One feature of this frame would be that, although the majority of late production frames used 'Sweetheart' chainrings, the last few, like this ne, went back to the earlier 'Coffin' type.

The two surving bikes preceding yours are on this thread:









						G519 COLUMBIA MG 14197A | Military Bicycles
					

I started the restoration of my G519 COLUMBIA MG 14197A  found in December 2004 in Normandy. Disassembly was relatively easy, on the other hand very big work on the rear part of the frame which underwent the assaults of time. Found in Normandy 2 years ago a pair of fendres WESTFIELD, redo the...




					thecabe.com
				




A fantastic restoration of MG14197A by Serge  ( @blackcat ), and an even closer survivor MG14220A belonging to a friend of his. Both were found in France.

Very shortly after this frame was made, the last known batch of USMC bikes was started, first known number being MC14625A, about 2/3 down the page here:









						MILITARY BICYCLE & MANUALS - HANDCARTZ
					

M3A4 Utility Hand Cart




					handcartz.smugmug.com
				




Very nice frame to have found.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Mountain Trail Andy (Aug 28, 2020)

Mercian said:


> Hi @Mountain Trail Andy
> 
> MG14250A, L1 is a G519 frame.
> 
> ...



Thank you everyone for your replies.  The conformation of the serial number is what I was hoping that it would be.  The research by Adrian, the restoration by Serge, and all of the other valuable information on this forum is priceless.  

The day after I acquired this bike frame I researched the serial number and Serge's restoration here on the Cabe, and I gave myself the "Green Light" to start searching for parts.  Within two weeks I acquired two Westfield parts bikes, a 1942, and a 1946, traveled a total of 810 miles in two neighboring states to get them home, but it was worth it.  Now, with most of the parts that I need to make it a rider, I am going to start the slow restoration process, taking my time for the best result possible.  I will be documenting the process so that I will have a time line to share with the military bicycle community.

My wife thinks I should sell it.....Not going to happen...lol

Also, I am sure I will have many more questions going forward.

Thanks again to all of you for your comments and support.

Regards, 

Andy


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## Mercian (Aug 28, 2020)

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your kind words (-:

You should get a nice bike out of it. Though some of the parts are not so easy to find, it sounds like the chase is part of it for you. Best of Luck.

If you get the chance, I'd be interested in knowing the serial numbers and any other details of the 1942 parts bike to improve my records.

Thanks in anticipation.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Mountain Trail Andy (Aug 28, 2020)

Mercian said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> Thanks for your kind words (-:
> 
> ...



Hello Adrian,

The 1942 bicycle is a men's 26" "Columbia Superb".  I have attached some pictures with the serial number.  Hope this helps.  Let me know if I can assist in anything else.

Regards,

Andy


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## Mercian (Aug 29, 2020)

Hi Andy,

Thanks, very helpful (-:

G37135 J3 was built in March 1941 as one of the last civilian bikes produced by Westfield before they started building the MG series G519 bikes. The earliest I have recorded is MG41727, perhaps built the week after. The bikes are essentially the same, just this frame doesn't have an M stamped in front of the number. 

I see @Goldslinger 'liked' the post above, his MG42966 is another early, and similar frame.









						My 42 Westfield FB marketplace find. | Military Bicycles
					

I have been looking for a bike to do a ww2 tribute bike. All the junk I have looked at was too expensive. I found this couple hours away and the person was a picker and he just pulled it out of an old barn. He listed it as a 1950s Columbia. The pictures weren't real clear and I didn't want to...




					thecabe.com
				




Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Mountain Trail Andy (Aug 29, 2020)

Mercian said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> Thanks, very helpful (-:
> 
> ...



Hello Adrian, 

You state my serial number above, but you have it listed as J3, not a J2 as stamped on the bottom bracket.  I am assuming that the J code is the date code, correct?

Regards,

Andy


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## Mercian (Aug 29, 2020)

Sorry, Andy, you are correct, it should be a J2, February 1941 (-:

I was looking at some of the early G519 bottom bracket images (with J3), and lost track.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## HUFFMANBILL (Aug 29, 2020)

Hello Andy,

I see that you picked up as a parts bike a February 1942 built Columbia Superb.  Did you notice the remnants of a ''V'' painted on the rear fender just under the reflector and above what appears to be drop-stand rivet holes?  If you also look on the front fender about 3 or 4 inches in from the front tip there is usually another ''V'' painted the same color as the rear one.  The painted '' V '' signifies '' Victory '' and was factory applied by the Westfield Mgr. Co. as a way to visually show positive support for the war effort.  The painted '' V '' on these bikes seem to be very rare now.  Either not that many bikes received these markings prior to April 1942 when the War Production Board (WPB) imposed a 3 month freeze across the board on bicycle sales as well as weight and construction limits on all bicycles,  which was the beginnings of the first true '' Victory'' Bicycles during WWII.  Or the painted '' V '' markings on most of the Columbia bikes that received them  have worn off after 78 years of use and/or abuse.  At any rate an early 1942 Columbia that still has these markings on the fenders is quite rare today.  I have taken the liberty of placing this group of bicycles under the heading of Pre-Regulation ( that would be the L-52 regulations , which spelled out the restrictions imposed on bicycle regulations from April 1942 - Sept. 1944 ).  So that is Pre-Regulation '' V'' ( Victory ) Marked WWII Columbia Bicycles.  I personally know of only about 6 of these specially marked bicycles, which includes yours above and mine pictured with this post. Most of those few seem to date between Dec., 1941 and as I remember March 1942.  I have noticed that most of these '' V '' marked Columbia bikes are marked as a Superb model.

I understand that you plan to use this as a parts bike for your 1944 Columbia.  Personally, I would wait to find another parts bike and restore the Superb since with the '' V '' mark it is so rare.  However, I can also understand your desire to get as close to correct parts as possible for your military restoration so it is obviously your choice and good luck with the restoration.  

Just a word of caution,  the fender width on the Columbia military models is 4''.  The fenders on your Superb, which may be old stock from 1941 could be 4 3/4'' wide 3/4'' wider then correct military Columbia Gothic style fenders, which would make them very incorrect for use unless you were making a tribute bike.
Columbia called these wider fenders deep-sided and evidently used them on many of their models in 1941.


































My '' V '' marked Columbia Superb is Ser.# G27398  Frame date code J1, late January/early February 1942 manufacture.

Regards,
Bill


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## Mountain Trail Andy (Aug 29, 2020)

HUFFMANBILL said:


> Hello Andy,
> 
> I see that you picked up as a parts bike a February 1942 built Columbia Superb.  Did you notice the remnants of a ''V'' painted on the rear fender just under the reflector and above what appears to be drop-stand rivet holes?  If you also look on the front fender about 3 or 4 inches in from the front tip there is usually another ''V'' painted the same color as the rear one.  The painted '' V '' signifies '' Victory '' and was factory applied by the Westfield Mgr. Co. as a way to visually show positive support for the war effort.  The painted '' V '' on these bikes seem to be very rare now.  Either not that many bikes received these markings prior to April 1942 when the War Production Board (WPB) imposed a 3 month freeze across the board on bicycle sales as well as weight and construction limits on all bicycles,  which was the beginnings of the first true '' Victory'' Bicycles during WWII.  Or the painted '' V '' markings on most of the Columbia bikes that received them  have worn off after 78 years of use and/or abuse.  At any rate an early 1942 Columbia that still has these markings on the fenders is quite rare today.  I have taken the liberty of placing this group of bicycles under the heading of Pre-Regulation ( that would be the L-52 regulations , which spelled out the restrictions imposed on bicycle regulations from April 1942 - Sept. 1944 ).  So that is Pre-Regulation '' V'' ( Victory ) Marked WWII Columbia Bicycles.  I personally know of only about 6 of these specially marked bicycles, which includes yours above and mine pictured with this post. Most of those few seem to date between Dec., 1941 and as I remember March 1942.  I have noticed that most of these '' V '' marked Columbia bikes are marked as a Superb model.
> 
> ...



Hello Bill,

Thank you for all of the great information.  To put your mind at rest, I am not going to use the Superb as a parts bicycle with the exception of borrowing the coffin chain ring if need be for the G519, but only until I find another one.  And yes, my Superb does have the V on the front fender, same as yours.  My long term plan for the Superb is to reassemble it once it is cleaned and greased and keep it for a rider and a a piece of very important history.   Even though it had a somewhat hard life, I will definitely preserve it.  I currently have 3 other fender pairs to choose from, and two other parts bicycles with many of the needed parts.  

Attached is a picture of my 1945 Westfield that I had to explain to my better half of why I could not use it as a parts bicycle, and a photo of a 1937 Westfield Niagara that I had displayed at the Schoharie Valley Railroads Museum Depot for three years.  I'm all about history.  Thanks again, and your input is always welcome.

Regards, Andy

P.S.  Your bicycle is beautiful..!!!


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## HUFFMANBILL (Aug 29, 2020)

Andy, it sounds like you and I have similar thinking patterns in regards to the importance of bicycle history! Very nice bikes and the best of luck with the restorations.

Regards,
Bill


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## Mercian (Aug 30, 2020)

Hi @HUFFMANBILL and @Mountain Trail Andy 

I agree very much with the sentiments in the last few mails above. I'm pleased that both the 1942 and 1945  bikes will survive.

Andy, sorry to be a pain, but if the serial numbers for the 1945 and 1932 bikes become available (no urgency!) could you please let me know so I can update my listing further?

Thanks,

Best Regards,

Adrian


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