# Pre '33 AS&CO Serial Number Project



## dasberger (Dec 13, 2021)

Greetings CABE Land and welcome to the Unofficial Pre '33 Schwinn Thread.  This has come up a number of times in other threads and mentioned again yesterday.  Let's get it done!

It's time to put together a collection of all things Pre '33 Schwinn and get a Serial # registry going.  

Please include year and any info used to determine, Model, Name badged under and of course pics, especially badges, decals, original equipment (pedals, seats, sprockets, wheels, hubs) , crank stamps, etc. 

Any catalogs, spec sheets or advertising encouraged!  

Here's a few who have been in on the conversation...  Please tag anyone else who may have knowledge or bikes to add

@SKPC @New Mexico Brant @onecatahula @cyclingday @Archie Sturmer @RustyHornet


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## dasberger (Dec 13, 2021)

I currently own 3 of these machines in varying states...  Here is the first:

It's a 1927 Motobike, Lincoln Badged.  It's a parts bike that was well loved and documented on the CABE by @rcole45.  It made it's way east and I picked it up a while back from @onecatahula 

It seems  Serial # 415,000 was struck in 1928...  The serial on this bike 404,860 thus putting it 1927.  I believe frame and badge are the only original parts and I have since pillaged a number of parts for other projects while collecting more correct parts for my build.


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## Archie Sturmer (Dec 13, 2021)

@dasberger Thank you for starting this thread, limited to the pre-1933 forum (actually to include 1933 and 1934).

Your A&S Lincoln bike from @rcole45 may have a very-good estimate, if based on the crank.








						1928 schwinn Lincoln motobike  for sale | Sell - Trade: Bicycle Parts, Accessories, Ephemera
					

Rare  1928 Schwinn lincoln 28" nice  project bike rare large Lincoln badge  Fenders original  paint and in great shape no dents or rust through paint shows its age  but  Very straight and nice , very large rare  front sprocket and large rare rear sprocket model a hub  Torrington crossbar...




					thecabe.com
				




We should be careful in using a list, if although we know where or who it came from, yet we do not understand the details on how it was estimated, or any confidence factor:



We see from the picture above that an arbitrary number of bikes per year (e.g. 10,000) was once postulated.  We have also seen odd figures of ~17,000 or ~46,000 or ~86,000 bikes per year, but how were those numbers obtained, and when, and did it involve computers or the internet(?).
Trust but verify.

We should encourage members to *share *how they estimate the years of their pre-1933 A&S built bikes— say, by using the date on the crank (preferred); expert opinion; what the seller hinted at; a group consensus or votes; special features; catalog information; and so on.  Perhaps such info may be provided by mere reference via a link to another thread with a discussion about a specific bike.

In the following thread, with *100+ posts* and a similar sounding title, we see only two early (1934) serial numbers from @Nick-theCut and @volksboy57 in the *12 pages*.
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/prewar-schwinn-serial-list.*49379*/

And there are more than a couple of other threads that we have seen with good info.
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/i-just-aquired-my-first-really-old-bike-hibbard-badged-schwinn.*55581*/

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/schwinn-b9-b10's.*190992*/

I plan to add my few A&S-built Mead *project *bikes, (serials ~141,000 to 189,000), when I get better pictures.  All have the post-war 1919-22 patent 1,435,611 chain tensioner; the oldest has the Mar. 14, 1922 patent decal, and one of the latest came to me with a repaired M-23 crank.  (They might all be the same year?).



Don't want this thread to go way-off on a _*Mead tangent*_ though!


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## Archie Sturmer (Dec 13, 2021)

A benchmark for *Pre-1933 A&S serial numbers* might be the one millionth bike, with a picture and commentary posted by @chitown








						Schwinn's 1,000,000th built bicycle! 1917 article via hathitrust.org online library | All Things Schwinn
					






					thecabe.com
				






And another _*potential*_ benchmark might be a two-millionth bike by 1925(?).  A few posts in the following thread so suggest, and an article used the plural “millions”.








						Arnold schwinn excelsior truss bar dating | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

Finally got this up on a stand and started cleaning.what I've come up with is red frame,short white darts,nickel plated fork.this is a odd bike with the lower tube smaller in diameter,and the built in dropstand stops chi town has helped a lot on this bike.anyone have any factory color pictures...




					thecabe.com
				



Thinking more-likely an excess of 1.5 million around 1934/35.


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## dasberger (Dec 13, 2021)

Archie Sturmer said:


> @dasberger Thank you for starting this thread, limited to the pre-1933 forum (actually to include 1933 and 1934).
> 
> Your A&S Lincoln bike from @rcole45 may have a very-good estimate based on the crank.
> 
> ...



Thanks for inserting those threads...  The crank on the Lincoln was long gone before I got the bike.  Here's what it used to look like.   Wish it still had that 60 tooth sprocket!  Thanks for the pics @Rust_Trader


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## volksboy57 (Dec 14, 2021)

I'm not sure of the date, but it is definitely a pre 1933 schwinn. Hope it helps in some way.


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## dasberger (Dec 14, 2021)

volksboy57 said:


> I'm not sure of the date, but it is definitely a pre 1933 schwinn. Hope it helps in some way.
> View attachment 1527214
> View attachment 1527215



Love this frame!  Designed for "short stout men or growing boys" with a serial that low my guess is teens...


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## HEMI426 (Dec 14, 2021)

I posted this bike before and ended up more confused dating it, but if it can help this registry here it is. I was told first teens then twenties. It's an Excelsior (Chicago)  You guys might be able to figure it out.


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## dasberger (Dec 14, 2021)

HEMI426 said:


> I posted this bike before and ended up more confused dating it, but if it can help this registry here it is. I was told first teens then twenties. It's an Excelsior (Chicago)  You guys might be able to figure it out.
> 
> View attachment 1527241
> 
> ...



Late 20's?  Have you ever pulled the crank on this bike?  An original crank with date stamps could nail it down.


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## HEMI426 (Dec 14, 2021)

No, I 've never even cleaned this bike since I got it.


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## dasberger (Dec 14, 2021)

HEMI426 said:


> No, I 've never even cleaned this bike since I got it.



Pull it!!!  Let's see those stamps!  Great bike BTW


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## HEMI426 (Dec 14, 2021)

When I can, It's in storage now. Thanks


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## dasberger (Dec 14, 2021)

No rush...  This thread is 100 years in the making!  Once there are a dozen or so bikes posted I will start working on a spreadsheet


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## Archie Sturmer (Dec 14, 2021)

volksboy57 said:


> I'm not sure of the *date*, but it is definitely a pre 1933 schwinn. Hope it helps in some way.
> View attachment 1527214
> View attachment 1527215



The rear fork ends on your bicycle look to be the pre-war style which @chitown once had indicated did continue for a _short_ _time_ post-war.
The *196*,*000* serial number is not that small (compared to zero), thinking maybe as late as 1923 (estimate), based on the other A&S-built Mead bicycles with lower serial numbers, yet with a Mar. 14,1922 patent printed on the seat tube mast decal.

We should be careful, in a serial numbers thread, to state that the date is based on a serial number alone; when we are really comparing those numbers to other actual bicycles with confident dates— from which a list might someday be *shared*.


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## Archie Sturmer (Dec 14, 2021)

HEMI426 said:


> I posted this bike before and ended up more confused dating it, but if it can help this registry here it is. I was told first *teens* then *twenties*. It's an Excelsior (Chicago)  You guys might be able to figure it out.
> 
> View attachment 1527243
> 
> View attachment 1527248



The A&S Excelsior with a *455*,*000* serial number might be a 1930-1931, based on @rcole45’s post #30 (page-3) in the Hibbard thread previously referred to, with two *1930* bicycles with 443,523 and 443,601 serial numbers.
Your bike is only ~22,500 off from a “_serial_” sent to @dasberger on a *1931* bike.


dasberger said:


> The closest “_serial_” to yours he (@rcole45) sent me was *478513* which was dated to *1931*.












						I just aquired my first really old bike - Hibbard badged Schwinn? | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

Thanks fordsnake!  Great old Hibbard article!  Thanks for the great photos!  Now to find a rear fender and a sweet tank/toolbox like yours.....looks great!!!  Just curious what your serial number is on your bike?  Just fun seeing how far apart they are.




					thecabe.com
				



Why were the teens and twenties first speculated(?); is there a link to a thread discussing the A&S Excelsior bicycle? 








						1915 ? Excelsior trying to looad pics | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					






					thecabe.com


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## dasberger (Dec 14, 2021)

Archie Sturmer said:


> The rear fork ends on your bicycle look to be the pre-war style which @chitown once indicated continued post-war.
> The *196*,*000* serial number is not that small (compared to zero), thinking maybe as late as 1923 (estimate), based on the other A&S-built Mead bicycles with lower serial numbers, yet with a Mar. 14,1922 patent printed on the seat tube mast decal.
> 
> We should be careful, in a serial numbers thread, to state that the date is based on a serial number alone; when we are really comparing those numbers to other actual bicycles with confident dates.



Now we're getting somewhere.  The point of this thread is to be able to establish a collection of bikes with both confident dates of manufacture and those without as well as supporting literature,  etc. so we can start filling in the blanks.

As for my bike being a '31?  @rcole45 told me though his research he determined it to be a '27...  Here are the serials of known bikes he sent me that were used to determine that.  One of them you mentioned above

"Serial number on your bike is 404860. Serial numbers were 6 numbers till about 34 then one letter and five numbers. In my search I FOUND BIKES 1931/478513 1930/443601 *1927/362230*"


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## Archie Sturmer (Dec 14, 2021)

dasberger said:


> @rcole45 told me though his research he determined...
> Here are the serials of known *bikes* *he* *sent* *me*….



*Oops, my mistake! *
I thought that maybe he had sent you the whole bicycle(s), and you mentioned having more than one.

I had visions of a “helpful thread” by the @the tinker on how to send serial numbers, (similar to “removing head badges easily” thread).

So, it seems that your *1927* bicycle with the *362*,*000* serial may have been the same one posted in the *Hibbard* thread by member @tech549?

We notice that the *1931* bike (not yours), has a *478*,*000* serial which does not align to the old list which indicates 1933; more than two years off?  I suspect the old list is off.


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## dasberger (Dec 14, 2021)

Archie Sturmer said:


> *Oops, my mistake! *
> I thought that maybe he had sent you the whole bicycle(s), and you mentioned having more than one.
> 
> I had visions of a “helpful thread” by the @the tinker on how to send serial numbers, (similar to “removing head badges easily” thread).
> ...



I misread that bit about the 1931 serial I didn't realize you were referencing a previous discussion... my mistake.  So anyway like I mentioned the Lincoln is well documented and seems to be a '27.  I got confirmation today there were no markings on the original crank and the bike was parted here on the CABE in 2012 after there were no takers.  Only the frame is original to the bike at this point....

I do have more than one I just started with the Lincoln.  I haven't had a chance to pull the crank on the second but as I understand it there are no markings on it and third I need to pick up but it has been well documented as well....

Let's see those Meads!


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## Archie Sturmer (Dec 14, 2021)

dasberger said:


> Let's see those Meads!



We hope that this thread should not become a Mead thread. And I agree that both known and unknown confidence examples of Pre-1933 A&S bicycles should be welcomed.
Below is a what I had thought was a 1922 Girl's Junior (24") Mead Ranger in honey-brown built by A&S; serial *141,531* from Long Beach; (I also received a boy's frame from the same person four years ago).




I figure that it could be slightly later since it has the Mead *decal *on the seat tube mast showing "*Mar. 14, 1922*" among several patent dates.  The font of the serial numbers does look peculiar.



No crankset came with this *project *frame only, and it accommodates balloon tires in the rear; the front fork is not original.



When looking at Mead catalog pictures, many of the Ladies/Girls bicycles appeared to have curved down tubes; maybe the Juniors' models did not receive such style improvements(?).

Make this one uncertain; but it still does exist, (in one form or another).


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## dasberger (Dec 14, 2021)

Is it possible AS used a different batch of serials for Mead that ran at the same time?  Say starting at 100,000?  Or did the frames just come off the line at the same time and were stamped as they came off.  The font above does look strange...  much thicker than others I have seen


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## Archie Sturmer (Dec 14, 2021)

The Mead serial number examples that I have seen look to be those of the makers, Davis, Miami, Westfield, etc., as well as A&S.  In the maker’s style and sequence.

We have seen some five-digits pre-1933 A&S serials, less than 100,000.  The serial number closest to zero and the one closest to the 1-millionth would both be sometime in 1917?

Not sure how A&S might have batched work, or blocks of numbers, for different customers.  In the pre-1933 timeframe, I would not expect any duplicate numbers.


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## RustyHornet (Dec 14, 2021)

Let me dig up pics of my 1933 crank dated balloon tire frame as a reference. I recently discovered my frame is trashed and have hung it up in disappointment… Not sure what I’m going to do with it yet…


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## RustyHornet (Dec 14, 2021)

500727 serial. 1933 crank date. Frame built for 26” wheels. Nothing else was original to the bike, so take it for what it is.


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## dasberger (Dec 28, 2021)

@Archie Sturmer in reference to the bike below

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1923-schwinn-motobike-motorbike-1-500.199967/#post-1358001

@dave laidacker provided me with the correct serial number and some pics of the head tube.  Story goes the original crank was damaged but was stamped '23.  Given the serial I think the bike is indeed a 1923. 

 #257754





Here is the head tube with halo of badge outlined and hole spacing





Kind of reminds of this Schwinn built hawthorne @Xcelsior owns.


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## dasberger (Dec 29, 2021)

Another one of mine...  Electric Badged Moto.  Haven't pulled the crank yet but It's my understanding its not dated.

Currently leaning '22/23.  In the process of breaking it down so will double check the crank.  The construction on this bike is different than most examples I have seen.  It has a shorter head tube with down tube starting a t head tube.  The others have down tube killing into the lower (straight) bar

#216730


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## SKPC (Dec 30, 2021)

Here is a pre-33 moto frame found with no cranks and only headset cups and crank cups. 18-3/4" seatpost.  3-1/16th"  badge spacing.


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## Archie Sturmer (Dec 31, 2021)

Below is an earlier 2012 thread with pictures by @chitown about his 478,500 series A&S motorbike dated to 1931.








						1931 Schwinn built | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

Just picked up this Schwinn built Motobike with a beautiful Mesinger saddle. It was painted red with white stripe on the fender many years ago. I saw a little color underneath and put some citrus based paint remover on and found the oddest of color combinations. "AS 31" on the crank, so I'm...




					thecabe.com


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## Vicious Cycle (Jan 1, 2022)

Several times in this thread the "Patent date" is used as a reference.  The Patent date is when an item was NOT made. It does put a floor on the date range (not made before then) but is not a good indication of year made. Patent dates are just that, the year a Patent was granted. The decal could be used for years afterwards.


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## dasberger (Jan 1, 2022)

Vicious Cycle said:


> Several times in this thread the "Patent date" is used as a reference.  The Patent date is when an item was NOT made. It does put a floor on the date range (not made before then) but is not a good indication of year made. Patent dates are just that, the year a Patent was granted. The decal could be used for years afterwards.



I think we are all in agreement the patent date does not indicate a date of manufacture.  When that decal was referenced by @Archie Sturmer he said his example would have been manufactured later than the patent date.

It's still plausible to me that the Mead batched cycles had their own serial numbers.  The tooling on the above referenced mead  serial looks nothing like any of the other examples in the thread.


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## Archie Sturmer (Jan 1, 2022)

dasberger said:


> When that decal was referenced by @Archie Sturmer he said his example would have been manufactured later than the patent date.



@dasberger has read correctly; and the patent date may indicate *about* *when* a bicycle was produced.

However, with the reproduction of decals, we might be especially careful when looking at those.

Bicycles with the decal listing the date of the A.D. *Meiselbach* patent 1,409,748 might not even possess that headset.


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## cyclingday (Jan 1, 2022)

I was working on this rig today, so I snapped a picture of the serial number for this thread.












It’s hard to tell, but it looks like it reads, 630
The crank is dated, 1916, but that low turnover serial number suggests early 1917?


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## JO BO (Jan 1, 2022)

Lots of incorrect parts (including crank) no badge but most guess mid twenties Schwinn. 
Wish it was more original. 327894 serial number


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## dasberger (Jan 1, 2022)

So after a fairly deep dive into the deep dark corners of the CABE this is what I have come up with.  This list is by no means an end all be all for dating early Schwinn but should serve as a decent guide.  If you have more info on any of the bikes listed please feel free to share and I will update the registry.  If you currently own any bikes listed and you would like to be named as "contributor" please send me a pm and I will make necessary changes.

As more examples surface I will do my best to keep the list updated


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## dasberger (Jan 3, 2022)

This should be a little easier....


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## Archie Sturmer (Jan 4, 2022)

Below is a Chicago Cycle Supply Co. thread by @CURTIS L LINDGREN with a "Spartan" bicycle and higher-end serial number.








						Need Help Here !       Chicago Cycle Supply Co,  Serial number. | Wanted: Bikes, Trikes, Parts, Accessories, Etc.
					

Hello to all here.      I'm new to the Cabe, but have messed with pre war bikes on and off for a while now.     I just got a 1934 ?    26"  Motorbike style  Bicycle   Made By  Chicago Cycle Supply Co.        It has a " Spartan"   badge         The Serial # is 550637      I haven't found a list...




					thecabe.com


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## dasberger (Jan 4, 2022)

I will continue to update my list and post updated versions as more bikes appear.  I highlighted the 1934 Excelsior in RED as stoping point seeing this is the Pre '33 registry.  However, I do think it would be interesting to see which bikes from '34 have 26" vs 28" wheels as there has been some discussion about frame sizes and the transitional period.


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## cyclingday (Jan 7, 2022)

Well, I finally got it rolling.
The 1917 Schwinn,“double arch”Excelsior rides again!


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## New Mexico Brant (Jan 8, 2022)

cyclingday said:


> View attachment 1543884
> Well, I finally got it rolling.
> The 1917 Schwinn,“double arch”Excelsior rides again!



Looks fabulous Marty!  Could you please post some close up detail shots of this stunner for us to study the build traits Schwinn was using at this time.  I would love to see the top of the fork crown, rear and front top lugging, and the rear fork area.  Kind thanks, Brant


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## New Mexico Brant (Jan 8, 2022)

dasberger said:


> This should be a little easier....
> 
> 
> View attachment 1540985
> View attachment 1540986




You may want to add Ron's @Oldnut 1916 truss frame Schwinn Excelsior with serial number: "Looks like 862653."  It has an AS-16 crank.








						Arnold schwinn excelsior truss bar dating | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

The plot thickens  Well popped the crank out to clean it.says as 16.cleaning the frame some found excelsior on the down tube real faint but there well no painting this one now




					thecabe.com


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## dasberger (Jan 8, 2022)

Wow Marty...  another fantastic survivor!!  Well done!  

Thanks Brant.  I'm not sure how I missed that one but what a great example.  Will add to the next update.


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## onecatahula (Jan 8, 2022)

Fantastic project, Josh.
Thank you for taking this on !
Here are two more for ya:

First,
Truss frame Schwinn, Serial 57387, purported to be 1917 (no crank to check)


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## onecatahula (Jan 8, 2022)

Second,
Motorbike Schwinn, Serial 442733, purported to be 1927 (again, no crank to check). However, now referring to your hand-dandy chart, perhaps it’s a 1928 !


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## OC_Rolling_Art (Jan 8, 2022)

cyclingday said:


> I was working on this rig today, so I snapped a picture of the serial number for this thread.View attachment 1538812
> View attachment 1538811
> View attachment 1538810
> View attachment 1538813
> ...



Way cool bike Marty, look at THAT serial number!


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## markivpedalpusher (Jan 8, 2022)

1916 dated crank on this project


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## cyclingday (Jan 8, 2022)

Thanks for posting your bike, Mark.
Our two bikes are a good example of the turnover period of 1916/17 when AS&Co. produced their one millionth bike.



At 961805, yours is just prior to the turnover.


At 630 mine is just after the turnover.
Both bikes are identical in construction technique, with one exception.



The drop stand/axel plate is interesting, in that it is just a scaled down version of what they were using on their motorcycles at the time.



Very unique drop stand.
If you’re missing this part, you’re in a world of hurt.















Here’s is where the pre one million 1916 type frames differ from the post one million 1917 frames.
The truss rods of the 1917 type frames were internally female threaded, and used bolts to secure them to the truss rod plate.



The trussrods on the 1916 type frames were external male threads and used jam nuts top and bottom the secure them to the truss rod plate.






Other than that, everything else about these two frames are identical.









Strangely, my frame had been painted Orange, before the Olive Drab color was applied.
It probably looked good when it was new, but after all these years, it sure makes for an ugly bike now.
It has been a real hurdle for me to wrap my head around, while working on this bike.



For some reason, only the frame got the Orange undercoat.



The rest of the bike looks to have been painted over bare metal.


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## Stu Pitt (Jan 9, 2022)

This is my Edwards & Crist Cadillac. The catalog states it is Schwinn built and the frame and fork features seem to confirm it. It didn't have a crank when I bought it, so I roughly dated it 1933 using New Departure hub types; front SM (1933 last year manufactured) and rear model D small arm (1933 first year manufactured IIRC). The bike had been accessorized along the way and the rear wheel & hub _might_ have been replaced. The serial numbers chart on page 4 and the serial number on my frame (390842) put it at 1927.

I built the wheels on it using the original hubs and added the chain guard, crank, and pedals. All else is as found and cleaned up.


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## onecatahula (Jan 9, 2022)

markivpedalpusher said:


> 1916 dated crank on this project
> View attachment 1544725





Mark,
This looks like you, yes ?  Model 207
(from the 1917 catalog)


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## onecatahula (Jan 9, 2022)

On closer inspection, maybe not.
Catalog artist taking liberties ?








Catalog looks closer to Marty’s. 
Frame size difference, perhaps ?


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## dasberger (Jan 9, 2022)

Hey @onecatahula it's my pleasure to take this on!  Really it takes a village and it's nice to finally see it come together.  Thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge and projects.  It's high time this period in Schwinn history gets a proper look.  These are fantastic machines and still so solid after a century of use and abuse.  

After an initial dive revealed so many motorbikes it's amazing to see all of these Truss and Double Arch bikes come out of the woodwork.  I will update the list when I get a chance.

@Stu Pitt let's see that badge....


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## New Mexico Brant (Jan 9, 2022)

onecatahula said:


> On closer inspection, maybe not.
> Catalog artist taking liberties ?
> View attachment 1545182
> 
> View attachment 1545183



Was there a long head tube version and a short head tube version?  Here are two Michigan City Excelsior motobikes with the exact same paint scheme; one has a long head tube, the other short, the battery tank with built in switch will fit both.  Please note: *These two Excelsiors are not Schwinn built but just being shown as an example of what was occurring at that time.*


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## dasberger (Jan 9, 2022)

New Mexico Brant said:


> Was there a long head tube version and a short head tube version?  Here are two Michigan City motobikes with the exact same paint scheme; one has a long head tube, the other short, the battery tank with built in switch will fit both.  *These two Excelsiors are not Schwinn built but just being shown as an example of what was occurring at that time*



I know there was a 3" and a 5" head tube on the motorbikes with the down tube meeting the head tube on the 5" and meeting the lower straight bar on 3"


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## Stu Pitt (Jan 9, 2022)

dasberger said:


> Hey @onecatahula it's my pleasure to take this on!  Really it takes a village and it's nice to finally see it come together.  Thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge and projects.  It's high time this period in Schwinn history gets a proper look.  These are fantastic machines and still so solid after a century of use and abuse.
> 
> After an initial dive revealed so many motorbikes it's amazing to see all of these Truss and Double Arch bikes come out of the woodwork.  I will update the list when I get a chance.
> 
> @Stu Pitt let's see that badge....




Headbadge as requested.

With the more reliable frame serial number year, as opposed to the hub date years, I have a serviceable ND model A hub I might lace into the rear wheel.


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## cyclingday (Jan 9, 2022)

Mark’s 1916 double arch bar frame was the smallest/shortest of the 28” wheel type frames, and my 1917 double arch bar frame was the biggest/tallest of the 28” wheel type frames made available by Schwinn at the time.
Interesting to see both of these frames in their different maximum/minimum sizes.


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## dasberger (Jan 9, 2022)

Stu Pitt said:


> Headbadge as requested.
> 
> With the more reliable frame serial number year, as opposed to the hub date years, I have a serviceable ND model A hub I might lace into the rear wheel.
> 
> View attachment 1545234



Nice badge!   @barneyguey I'm seeing a Pre '33 addendum in the works!  Didn't see Edwards and Crist in Vol 1 or 2


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## Stu Pitt (Jan 9, 2022)

dasberger said:


> Nice badge!   @barneyguey I'm seeing a Pre '33 addendum in the works!  Didn't see Edwards and Crist in Vol 1 or 2



The Edwards & Crist anchor store in Chicago was about 4 blocks away from the Schwinn factory.


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## dasberger (Jan 9, 2022)

After a long search I finally found a correct 28" fork for the Lincoln.  Its was a rat/rider with a 26" fork when I got it.  Thanks @Dave Stromberger for the assist.  There is too much OG paint on the frame for a repaint.  I think I'm going to try to clean the overspray on the head tube and see what I can bring back before deciding on the fork.  I think I may try my hand at matching the frame.

Looking better already!  Had a bit of a clown bike feel before...  fork is straight (now)... Just no bearings in this pic


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## markivpedalpusher (Jan 16, 2022)

Impossible badge to find in the DOND forum









						Teens Schwinn Square Excelisor Badge | Deal Or No Deal
					

For your consideration a DOND offering: Accepted offer will include shipping from Richmond, VA   Scarce original 1910’s Schwinn Excelsior square cross pattern badge in the earlier version of what I would call the “intaglio” vs. “relief” but I’ve also heard “innie” vs. “outie” -  Tough to find...




					thecabe.com


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## dasberger (Jan 28, 2022)

Here's the updated list....  Keep 'em coming fellas!  If anyone has more info on any of the bikes listed please help us fill in the blanks


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## Archie Sturmer (Jan 30, 2022)

Below is a link to what may be another one. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/mead-frame.203431/


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## dasberger (Jan 30, 2022)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Below is a link to what may be another one. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/mead-frame.203431/



Welds and serial don't look like Schwinn to me


----------



## dasberger (Feb 1, 2022)

Got a little time to work on the '27 Lincoln today.  Did a mock up with some of the parts I've acquired.  Correct 28" fork, stem, Troxel and a killer hard to find 60 tooth sprocket which is what this particular bike had originally.  Sitting on some 28" wheels for the first time in many years...  Still looking for bars and some other misc. parts but it's starting to feel like a bike again!


----------



## Rust_Trader (Feb 8, 2022)

1923 Schwinn-


----------



## dasberger (Feb 8, 2022)

Rust_Trader said:


> 1923 Schwinn-
> 
> View attachment 1566476
> 
> View attachment 1566477



24"?  What's the serial/is the crank dated?


----------



## Rust_Trader (Feb 8, 2022)

18” crank dated 23


----------



## Archie Sturmer (Feb 17, 2022)

Another thread with some A&S-built Mead bicycles and a A&S-built Shapleigh Hardware bicycle. 








						Mead Serial Numbers | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

Hello, I was organizing my old catalogs and saw this and thought it might help date Mead bikes. I searched for info like this but did not find any. So maybe we can start here  1925 #204285




					thecabe.com
				



Similar peculiar font that has been associated with A&S-built Mead products.


----------



## dasberger (Feb 17, 2022)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Another thread with some A&S-built Mead bicycles and a A&S-built Shapleigh Hardware bicycle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not convinced any of those are Schwinn Built...  @SKPC what say you regarding the Shapleigh??


----------



## dasberger (Feb 17, 2022)

Here's another one....









						Sold - 1924 Mead Built Shapleigh Hardware  Rugby $1600.00 plus shipping | Archive (sold)
					

Really hate to sell this, but times are tough in the Rollfaster household. Very nice original 28” wood rim bike. Crank is stamped M24, leads me to believe it’s a Schwinn Built Mead Cycle Chicago.  This bike spent most of its life in a Soulard( South St. Louis) basement and formerly owned by a...




					thecabe.com
				




My questions is this:  If Schwinn was building these for Mead, etc why don't they have the tell tale trumpet welds.  The Shapleigh bikes welds are much   cleaner and better looking than the trumpet welds...  why wouldn't Schwinn have transitioned to those earlier?  Doesn't make sense to be building the frames both ways.


----------



## Jon Olson (Feb 17, 2022)

1932-3 Schwinn “La Salle” 26” rims with light/battery and tank added.


----------



## chitown (Feb 17, 2022)

dasberger said:


> I'm not convinced any of those are Schwinn Built...  @SKPC what say you regarding the Shapleigh??



Those bikes are quiet the mystery. I have some clues but might need a whole thread on them as it's a deep rabbit hole of Mead,  AD Meiselbach & GS Lewis.. but I agree and am also not convinced those are Schwinn built.


----------



## SKPC (Feb 18, 2022)

No insight on whether Schwinn was building for Shapleigh Hardware/Rugby badge. That frame with Rugby badge was a frame sold by a Caber and had the fork missing unfortunately.  For the most part, when I see a potentially pieced together bikes it's tough to know as so many are so well done.  Of course, more examples that are less "complete" or "as found" need to emerge to gain more confidence.  What is the oldest AS crank year stamp known? Maybe start there?  But yea, the 20's were rocking it with so many players, bankruptcies and "mergers" as we know playing into the depression era.


----------



## dasberger (Feb 18, 2022)

SKPC said:


> No insight on whether Schwinn was building for Shapleigh Hardware/Rugby badge. That frame with Rugby badge was a frame sold by a Caber and had the fork missing unfortunately.  For the most part, when I see a potentially pieced together bikes it's tough to know as so many are so well done.  Of course, more examples that are less "complete" or "as found" need to emerge to gain more confidence.  What is the oldest AS crank year stamp known? Maybe start there?  But yea, the 20's were rocking it with so many players, bankruptcies and "mergers" as we know playing into the depression era.



The oldest crank date on the registry is an AS 15


----------



## Freqman1 (Apr 19, 2022)

1898 Schwinn "The World" Model 22 Gents Roadster.
First pic is in front of original Schwinn factory in Chicago where this bike was born! Serial is 13678 and I believe late 1898. V/r Shawn


----------



## dasberger (Apr 19, 2022)

Love that bike Shawn!  Curious if the cranks were dated that early?  It will certainly be added to the next update...  I've got about a half dozen or so to add when I get a chance


----------



## Freqman1 (Apr 19, 2022)

dasberger said:


> Love that bike Shawn!  Curious if the cranks were dated that early?  It will certainly be added to the next update...  I've got about a half dozen or so to add when I get a chance



Thanks. I've never had the crank out but I really doubt it (dating). Maybe @Jesse McCauley or @New Mexico Brant could answer that question. V/r Shawn


----------



## cyclingday (Apr 20, 2022)

I have one of those loose pre 1900 type Schwinn cranks, I’ll take a look at it, to see if it’s dated.


----------



## New Mexico Brant (Apr 30, 2022)

Teens period Henderson badge by Schwinn:


----------



## cyclingday (Apr 30, 2022)

Most likely,  a 1920’s period Henderson badge.
The company didn’t make the purchase of Henderson until 1917, with 1918 being the first year of production.
So, very late teens at the earliest.
The teens period Excelsior badges were different from the ones produced in the 20’s.
Then, they looked more like that Henderson badge, which is also what has me thinking, that badge is from the 20’s.
Just a thought.


----------



## New Mexico Brant (Apr 30, 2022)

cyclingday said:


> Most likely,  a 1920’s period Henderson badge.
> The company didn’t make the purchase of Henderson until 1917, with 1918 being the first year of production.
> So, very late teens at the earliest.
> The teens period Excelsior badges were different from the ones produced in the 20’s.
> ...



Sorry Marty, I have to respectfully disagree.  It is my belief Schwinn (masters of marketing) embraced the Henderson marque immediately and made it their top boutique offering sometime in 1917/early 1918.  Research and literature may prove me wrong; World War I considerations must also be thought about, but it doesn’t seem Schwinn slowed down during this period.

Here are two original catalogs from the large Schwinn literature group l purchased at Memory Lane.  The catalogs and offerings are virtually identical but the bicycle builds vary greatly. The World catalog is 1917; my gut feeling is the Henderson late 1917/early 1918.  Of note, the Hendersons where being fitted out mostly white with red tread Firestone non-skid tires, the Worlds with more cost effective alternatives.  Not a single black tire appears in either catalog. The Henderson's got a bit more flashy paint schemes as well. Much of the print copy is identical, word for word.


----------



## cyclingday (Apr 30, 2022)

I stand corrected,
But, as stated, in my previous post,
late 1917 at the very earliest.


----------



## lgrinnings (Apr 30, 2022)

I’ve got a couple teens Schwinn projects (sadly no original cranks). They’re both pre-1 million.

The first is a World Truss Frame model 1758 or Excelsior model 1708 badged Rutgers. Serial number is 954782.

The second is a diamond frame Mead Ranger. Serial number is 786671.

Teens Rutgers












Teens Mead Ranger


----------



## cyclingday (Apr 30, 2022)

I checked that 1890’s Schwinn Crankset today, and no date or script that I could see.






The chainring on this, is really thin at the center, and then gradually thickens up at the outer edge.


----------



## SKPC (May 1, 2022)

chitown said:


> Those bikes are quiet the mystery. I have some clues but might need a whole thread on them as it's a deep rabbit hole of Mead,  AD Meiselbach & GS Lewis.. but I agree and am also not convinced those are Schwinn built.



With a serial number font so specific as many mention and have noted,  Chitown asks a very good question....who was making these frames if not Schwinn?  The Mead specific discussion with serials should parallel this one as a connection may appear.


----------



## Archie Sturmer (May 1, 2022)

For comparative purposes, it would be nice to see side-by-side pictures of the (presumably) Chicago-built Mead cycles aligned to their numerically or contemporary A&S Chicago counterparts.
e.g.,  compare 190k serial stamps to 190k’s, (apples to apples); but it seems that they are too few and far between.


----------



## MrMonark13 (May 3, 2022)

I believe this is schwinn built. I just got it and I have no idea what it is.


----------



## dasberger (May 3, 2022)

MrMonark13 said:


> I believe this is schwinn built. I just got it and I have no idea what it is.View attachment 1619088View attachment 1619089View attachment 1619090



Looks like a '23 Schwinn built motorbike.  Nice find!


----------



## MrMonark13 (May 3, 2022)

dasberger said:


> Looks like a '23 Schwinn built motorbike.  Nice find!



Thanks! I’ve been looking for a 20’s motorbike for a while and I couldn’t pass up the chance to buy this one!


----------



## dasberger (May 4, 2022)

Looks like I've got enough new examples for an update....  Will work on it when I get a chance.  Thanks to everyone for your contributions!  Keep 'em coming


----------



## ccmerz (May 4, 2022)

had this one for 10 years. 1 9 3 3 ?   Serial number 4 8 3 3 5 7


----------



## dasberger (May 4, 2022)

ccmerz said:


> had this one for 10 years. 1 9 3 3 ?   Serial number 4 8 3 3 5 7View attachment 1619594
> 
> View attachment 1619595



I'm thinking '32.  Have you pulled the crank?  Date/markings?


----------



## New Mexico Brant (May 4, 2022)

Schwinn built, Toledo Rubber Company, Rex has serial number: 970106


----------



## RustyHornet (May 4, 2022)

MrMonark13 said:


> I believe this is schwinn built. I just got it and I have no idea what it is.View attachment 1619088View attachment 1619089View attachment 1619090



You lucky SOB! Beautiful!


----------



## MrMonark13 (May 4, 2022)

RustyHornet said:


> You lucky SOB! Beautiful!



Thank you!


----------



## SJ_BIKER (Jun 12, 2022)

Picked this up locally. Crank reads AS34.
Schwinn admiral badge. Cobalt blue? Came with a 28 inch wood/steel wheel. Purchased it to flip it however I'm beginning to like it.
Serial is:
H11641


----------



## RustyHornet (Jun 12, 2022)

SJ_BIKER said:


> Picked this up locally. Crank reads AS34.
> Schwinn admiral badge. Cobalt blue? Came with a 28 inch wood/steel wheel. Purchased it to flip it however I'm beginning to like it.
> Serial is:
> H11641
> View attachment 1645264



I find this one very interesting. The way the seat stay bridge is formed looks very much like a 28” wheel bike vs my ‘33 which looks very much like the later ballooners.


----------



## dasberger (Jun 12, 2022)

These were some interesting years for the Schwinn Motorbike.  There is a good deal of variation in sizing and welding/frame building techniques from '33-35.  I'm guessing retailers could order this style frame from Chicago cycle with their choice of 26" vs. 28" wheels as they transitioned to ballon tires which would explain some of the differences in the frame builds.

@SJ_BIKER I'm thinking with an H serial yours is a '35 and last year of production as aerocycle/cycleplane etc came own the scene.  

Here's a link to the '35 catalog









						1935 Arnold Schwinn & Co Catalog / Brochure Color | #23303743
					

1935 Catalog for Schwinn - Built Bicycles as manufactured by Arnold - Schwinn & Co., Chicago. This twelve page catalog / brochure displays Schwinn's full line of bicycles for 1935 complete with color




					www.worthpoint.com


----------



## SJ_BIKER (Jun 12, 2022)

dasberger said:


> These were some interesting years for the Schwinn Motorbike.  There is a good deal of variation in sizing and welding/frame building techniques from '33-35.  I'm guessing retailers could order this style frame from Chicago cycle with their choice of 26" vs. 28" wheels as they transitioned to ballon tires which would explain some of the differences in the frame builds.
> 
> @SJ_BIKER I'm thinking with an H serial yours is a '35 and last year of production as aerocycle/cycleplane etc came own the scene.
> 
> ...



I was thinking the same thing too as it has an H attached to the serial number. Kinda wish it was a balloon frame though....as I have a wheel set ready to go.  28" would be ok too ....I guess I need to speak to a good wheel building here on this site or maybe some one can reweld the rear fender mounting points to accept a balloon fender? These are not the wheels but a quick mount looked ok.


----------



## dasberger (Jun 12, 2022)

SJ_BIKER said:


> I was thinking the same thing too as it has an H attached to the serial number. Kinda wish it was a balloon frame though....as I have a wheel set ready to go.  28" would be ok too ....I guess I need to speak to a good wheel building here on this site or maybe some one can reweld the rear fender mounting points to accept a balloon fender? These are not the wheels but a quick mount looked ok.
> 
> View attachment 1645296



I actually think it looks pretty good with those wheels....  for a rider I may skip fenders.


----------



## oldmtrcyc (Jun 14, 2022)

SJ_BIKER said:


> Picked this up locally. Crank reads AS34.
> Schwinn admiral badge. Cobalt blue? Came with a 28 inch wood/steel wheel. Purchased it to flip it however I'm beginning to like it.
> Serial is:
> H11641



I don't think it is a schwinn from 1933-35.  The b9/b10 frame is much different where the front of the tank would go.


----------



## oldmtrcyc (Jun 14, 2022)

Put some of @KevinsBikes wheels on it.  They are killer.


----------



## SJ_BIKER (Jun 14, 2022)

oldmtrcyc said:


> I don't think it is a schwinn from 1933-35.  The b9/b10 frame is much different where the front of the tank would go.



Here's a reference pic


----------



## RustyHornet (Jun 15, 2022)

Some pictures of this one have been shared in here before, but it’s not formally been added to the registry. Took delivery of this one yesterday from a fellow caber. 1924 Schwinn built Hawthorne Deluxe. It shall fit my needs just fine.






















Serial number 294137





Plans are to do some soaking in a rust remover solution, clean up what’s left of the paint. I Am building a set of 700c wheels with a Shimano Nexus 8 speed coaster brake and a Sturmey Archer front drum brake. Wrapped in a pair of Schwalbe Marathon 44c tires.

I’m on the lookout for a proper period correct 1/2 pitch chain ring for this build. As well as correctish crossbars. Future plans include a tank, most likely repop. This will be my main rider/kid hauler.


----------



## KevinsBikes (Jun 16, 2022)

oldmtrcyc said:


> Put some of @KevinsBikes wheels on it.  They are killer.



I’m pretty much out of the game unless it’s something specific and pre-ordered.  All your faux wood wheels are now “rare” 😂


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## tacochris (Jun 16, 2022)

RustyHornet said:


> Some pictures of this one have been shared in here before, but it’s not formally been added to the registry. Took delivery of this one yesterday from a fellow caber. 1924 Schwinn built Hawthorne Deluxe. It shall fit my needs just fine.
> 
> View attachment 1647013
> 
> ...



The darts add a really awesome cherry on top to the bike, I look forward to seeing what you do with it!


----------



## RustyHornet (Jun 16, 2022)

tacochris said:


> The darts add a really awesome cherry on top to the bike, I look forward to seeing what you do with it!



This is the good side lol. Most of the rest is just crust. Working on degreasing parts and Rust911 soaking today at work in between restoring cars all day.

Not totally ruling out the possibility of a future nice repaint or potentially powder coat.


----------



## tacochris (Jun 16, 2022)

RustyHornet said:


> This is the good side lol. Most of the rest is just crust. Working on degreasing parts and Rust911 soaking today at work in between restoring cars all day.
> 
> Not totally ruling out the possibility of a future nice repaint or potentially powder coat.



Whatever you do Im sure it will be awesome.


----------



## RustyHornet (Jun 16, 2022)

tacochris said:


> Whatever you do Im sure it will be awesome.



Coming from you, that means a lot.😎


----------



## tacochris (Jun 16, 2022)

RustyHornet said:


> Coming from you, that means a lot.😎



Lol I aint nuffin.  I appreciate any bike that is given a new life and running the streets again!


----------



## pkleppert (Jun 16, 2022)

#491668 has a Morrow hub A4 (4th quarter 1931)  and a 1932 crank, The serial # makes it a 1933 Schwinn with 28" metal clad wooden wheels. Recently acquired this 3/4 restored bike. All major paint and chrome is done with Torrington cross bar handle bars & NOS solid tires. Needs spokes, seat recovered, pedal rubber & a S/T chain


----------



## RustyHornet (Jun 16, 2022)

pkleppert said:


> #491668 has a Morrow hub A4 (4th quarter 1931)  and a 1932 crank, The serial # makes it a 1933 Schwinn with 28" metal clad wooden wheels. Recently acquired this 3/4 restored bike. All major paint and chrome is done with Torrington cross bar handle bars & NOS solid tires. Needs spokes, seat recovered, pedal rubber & a S/T chain
> 
> View attachment 1647504
> 
> ...



I could be wrong, but I don’t believe this is a Schwinn. Have never come across a Schwinn with that kind of head tube construction.


----------



## dasberger (Jun 16, 2022)

RustyHornet said:


> I could be wrong, but I don’t believe this is a Schwinn. Have never come across a Schwinn with that kind of head tube construction.



Was going to say it looks like a repaired/replaced head tube.  From the pic inside of head tube looks a little new. A look at the rear welds and font/layout of the serial would help


----------



## RustyHornet (Jun 16, 2022)

dasberger said:


> Was going to say it looks like a repaired/replaced head tube.  From the pic inside of head tube looks a little new. A look at the rear welds and font/layout of the serial would help



I had wondered that too, but also looking at the top the rear triangle, it has a a more “pinched off” A shape to it. I’m not very familiar with Iver Johnsons, but I feel like I’ve seen some with that arrangement. Not sure on the head tube though.


----------



## pkleppert (Jun 17, 2022)

RustyHornet said:


> I could be wrong, but I don’t believe this is a Schwinn. Have never come across a Schwinn with that kind of head tube construction.



Here are some more photos. Serial number seems correct.


----------



## pkleppert (Jun 17, 2022)

dasberger said:


> Was going to say it looks like a repaired/replaced head tube.  From the pic inside of head tube looks a little new. A look at the rear welds and font/layout of the serial would help



Here are some more photos. Serial number seems correct. See response to Rusty's post Thanks


----------



## RustyHornet (Jun 24, 2022)

Been working away on my custom 1924 Hawthorne Deluxe. Got what’s left of the paint a little polished up. Hardware cleaned and de-rusted. Had a little kerfuffle with the new Velocity Blunts that I ordered, didn’t even realize it wasn’t specified on the website what the hole count was…. I didn’t even think about it when I ordered, never checked them when they showed up and didn’t notice till I sat down to lace them up… 32 hole….  After a back and forth with the company I bought them from (it took some work) I got them to finally take them back…  

Bars are temporary ones I made awhile back for my ‘33. I’m in the market for a correct set of crossbars for this 20’s Schwinn…


----------



## mickeyc (Jun 24, 2022)

Posted this Edwards & Crist here way back on Aug. 9, 2016.  Serial number was posted Sep. 22, 2016 (serial 462384)


----------



## dasberger (Jun 24, 2022)

mickeyc said:


> Posted this Edwards & Crist here way back on Aug. 9, 2016.  Serial number was posted Sep. 22, 2016 (serial 462384)  View attachment 1651050



I need to do an update to the list soon...  Thanks for posting.  Have you verified crank date on this one?


----------



## mickeyc (Jun 24, 2022)

dasberger said:


> I need to do an update to the list soon...  Thanks for posting.  Have you verified crank date on this one?



No, it got parted out as I couldn't get any interest in it whole.  Didn't think to get crank numbers but bike was completely original.  Take a look at the original posting on Aug. 9, 2016.


----------



## Archie Sturmer (Jun 24, 2022)

dasberger said:


> Have you verified crank date on this one?



The crank looked peculiarly *Emblem *Angola NY way back then.








						My New Cadillac....what Year? | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

Just picked this up today, no time to check serial number yet....




					thecabe.com
				



Emblem bicycles did have a six-digits serial number format.



mickeyc said:


> Edwards & Crist... maybe an Emblem.


----------



## dasberger (Jun 24, 2022)

Having a hard time seeing Schwinn on the Edward and Christ.  Fender profile and braces, stem as well as frame construction don't look to be Schwinn.  Also, the tail on the "2" of the serial is unlike any I've seen on early AS & CO


----------



## RustyHornet (Jun 24, 2022)

dasberger said:


> Having a hard time seeing Schwinn on the Edward and Christ.  Fender profile and braces, stem as well as frame construction don't look to be Schwinn.  Also, the tail on the "2" of the serial is unlike any I've seen on early AS & CO



Agreed. Not a Schwinn after looking at that thread. Top of the rear triangle is the tell tale.


----------



## RustyHornet (Jun 26, 2022)

Posting these randoms here for the project.

First I ran across this at a local swap meet. Unfortunately I screwed up and forgot to get the serial number…. But it’s been mentioned before about the transition from 28” to balloon and fender spacers. I had never seen any before myself. The owner was calling this one a B10E.














For the sake of comparison and discussion, a pic of the fender bridge on my ‘33 






This is a ‘39, the same as my ‘33





Then my ‘24.






And this one was posted on a Facebook group.





I can make out a 49750X, owner is working on getting the last digit.


----------



## SKPC (Jun 26, 2022)

Josh.  Found this example buried in a Davis thread...no mention of the Westfield crank date.😎..ciao!


----------



## Vdubber (Jun 26, 2022)

RustyHornet said:


> Posting these randoms here for the project.
> 
> First I ran across this at a local swap meet. Unfortunately I screwed up and forgot to get the serial number…. But it’s been mentioned before about the transition from 28” to balloon and fender spacers. I had never seen any before myself. The owner was calling this one a B10E.
> 
> ...



Here’s the rest of the serial #


----------



## mickeyc (Jun 28, 2022)

Archie Sturmer said:


> The crank looked peculiarly *Emblem *Angola NY way back then.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I did purchase the bike in N.Y. (Rochester area)


----------



## SKPC (Jun 28, 2022)

Yes, AS is correct regarding the womens Emblem-made Caddillac.  Emblem identifiers are~~ fish mouth joinery, 2" offset crankset, cap style headset (upper) and ribbed fenders....Emblem and Emblem built Pierce cycles had these fenders into the early 30's.  Emblem fonts below.
The womens Emblem.  https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/my-new-cadillac-what-year.94970/ 



Another Emblem serial number below.


----------



## Archie Sturmer (Jul 3, 2022)

Serial number 128,696 and repaired AS-16 crank on an orange refurbished Mead Ranger motorbike that was recently for sale. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/mead-ranger-teen-motorbike-28-frame-rat-rod.209162/
Perhaps the wrong sprocket was a swapped item, (to match the skip tooth 26” wheel set)?


----------



## RustyHornet (Jul 3, 2022)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Serial number 128,696 and repaired AS-16 crank on an orange refurbished Mead Ranger that was recently for sale. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/mead-ranger-teen-motorbike-28-frame-rat-rod.209162/
> Perhaps the wrong sprocket was a swapped item to match the skip tooth 26” wheel set?



I wondered who got that one. I was very interested.


----------



## Archie Sturmer (Jul 7, 2022)

A tribute bike to Harley Davidson looks like an A&S frame, SN 142,027.



https://www.ebay.com/itm/255613012361?campid=5335809022


----------



## Jim sciano (Sep 16, 2022)

Hey guys, I just picked up this guy and I’m hoping it could be a schwinn. The serial is 422210. I haven’t pulled the crank yet but I think I will this evening because I’m dying to know. This would fall into the 1928 bracket if you think it’s a schwinn. It has a model c nd which to my understanding ran from 27-33. I really want to make this a rider eventually. Any wheel and tire suggestions? Please let me know your thoughts about anything with this bike. Chicago HSB badge. Let me know if more pics would help. Thanks in advance


----------



## dasberger (Sep 16, 2022)

Jim sciano said:


> Hey guys, I just picked up this guy and I’m hoping it could be a schwinn. The serial is 422210. I haven’t pulled the crank yet but I think I will this evening because I’m dying to know. This would fall into the 1928 bracket if you think it’s a schwinn. It has a model c nd which to my understanding ran from 27-33. I really want to make this a rider eventually. Any wheel and tire suggestions? Please let me know your thoughts about anything with this bike. Chicago HSB badge. Let me know if more pics would help. Thanks in advance View attachment 1696768
> View attachment 1696769
> 
> View attachment 1696770
> ...



Looks like you're on the money...  '28 Schwinn.  Interested in crank date! 

Plenty of discussion about 28" wheels/tires.  The long and the short of it is if you want to use the OG wheels Robert Dean single tubes.  Other options for clinchers include Velocity blunt 29" which in this case you could get in silver and would look close to OG or any other 700c wheel set or European 28" you can dig up on the interwebs.  In general all options are fairly pricey unless you find a cheap 700c with a profile you like.

Nice bike good luck with the project!


----------



## Jim sciano (Sep 16, 2022)

dasberger said:


> Looks like you're on the money...  '28 Schwinn.  Interested in crank date!
> 
> Plenty of discussion about 28" wheels/tires.  The long and the short of it is if you want to use the OG wheels Robert Dean single tubes.  Other options for clinchers include Velocity blunt 29" which in this case you could get in silver and would look close to OG or any other 700c wheel set or European 28" you can dig up on the interwebs.  In general all options are fairly pricey unless you find a cheap 700c with a profile you like.
> 
> Nice bike good luck with the project!



Awesome, Thanks. I just pulled the crank and unfortunately the only stamping is “510”. Any thoughts on that?


----------



## dasberger (Sep 16, 2022)

Later replacement crank.  I thought 510 was Schwinn mens replacement code but just looked at catalog and it's 501...  Somebody knows who made it


----------



## PJ Fitz (Sep 16, 2022)

My Arnold & Schwinn "World" is stamped 1016 which I was told would likely be from early 1896. Is this a reasonable assumption?


----------



## dasberger (Sep 16, 2022)

PJ Fitz said:


> My Arnold & Schwinn "World" is stamped 1016 which I was told would likely be from early 1896. Is this a reasonable assumption?



If it's pre 1900 it would be one of only a few known examples and 1896 would be very early production.  More than likely it's 1917.  Pics would help tell the story


----------



## dasberger (Oct 30, 2022)

Adding this '27 Packard badged Double Arch Truss for reference....  Didn't get the serial # and kicking myself I didn't buy it when I had the chance.  😒Heard it went south to Mexico...  If anyone knows the serial please send it!


----------



## dasberger (Oct 30, 2022)

Working on the updated list...  if you have a Pre '33 Schwinn and it's not on the list or in the thread please let us see it!


----------



## New Mexico Brant (Oct 31, 2022)

PJ Fitz said:


> My Arnold & Schwinn "World" is stamped 1016 which I was told would likely be from early 1896. Is this a reasonable assumption?



Yes, your bicycle is from the first couple months of 1896.


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## PJ Fitz (Nov 1, 2022)

Thanks Brant, I really wasn't sure as there seem to be so few early Schwinns listed. I'd assume there are some in private collections that people don't choose to list but Schwinn claims to have made 5000 bicycles in his first year, and many more in the following years, so where did they all go?


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## HEMI426 (Nov 1, 2022)

War effort.


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## ALBreeze (Nov 8, 2022)

Schwinn B? I can not figure this one out? Has B10 like rack. Head badge screw holes at 3 3/16 for tall Lincoln badge.


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## dasberger (Nov 18, 2022)

Greetings my fellow CABER's and welcome back to the officially unofficial Pre '33 AS &CO thread...  After months of threatening I have finally buckled down and put pen to paper as they say.  I would like to thank everyone who has contributed thus far...  together we have been able to compile a solid reference for an often overlooked period in Schwinn History.  We still have a few notable gaps in serial/crank confirmed dates:  1898-1914, 1917-1923 and 1924-1927 If you have any examples from these periods please post them or PM me.

While searching for answers I have only raised more questions....  Why have the bikes from this era been overlooked by collectors?  Given the relatively high production numbers where are the bikes?  Are they relatively rare? Why is it so hard to find complete bikes or original paint bikes in good condition?  I have my own conclusions and I certainly welcome the continued conversation.... but without further ado, the updated registry


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## barneyguey (Dec 29, 2022)

Lawlor's motobike.  I saw some 33 & 34 motobikes on the list so I thought I'd post this one also


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## barneyguey (Dec 29, 2022)

I think this one is a 1933. It has the oval Excelsior badge. I don't know why I don't have a photo of it. Barry






Serial Number 555554


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