# Big wheel ID help.



## Crawlin40 (Jan 8, 2018)

Looking for any info On these 2 big wheeled bikes.  Thanks.


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## Rambler (Jan 9, 2018)

Crawlin40 said:


> Looking for any info On these 2 big wheeled bikes.  Thanks.




First is a Columbia Expert 1886ish give or take a year and missing the front brake hardware.

Second looks to be either an Otto child's high wheel bicycle or possibly a blacksmith made copy.


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## Crawlin40 (Jan 9, 2018)

Rambler said:


> First is a Columbia Expert 1886ish give or take a year and missing the front brake hardware.
> 
> Second looks to be either an Otto child's high wheel bicycle or possibly a blacksmith made copy.




Thanks for the info.  Any ideas on the value?


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## Rambler (Jan 9, 2018)

Crawlin40 said:


> Thanks for the info.  Any ideas on the value?




Value depends on condition. Best thing to do is look them over carefully for conditional issues and then consult past Copake Auction results of similar machines to form an educated opinion of value.

Columbia Expert appears to be in decent condition aside from missing brake hardware and incorrect rear wheel. Though I can't tell in photos if wheel rims are straight or if other conditional issues lurk under the paint as it has been repainted. From what I can see in the photos, generally a Columbia Expert in this condition sells for somewhere in the $3000-$5000 area but could be less if other issues (beyond those I listed) are apparent upon physical inspection.

As for the Otto child's bike or blacksmith copy. At first glance I see the right crank arm is broken off and missing. Seat spring is cracked where it touches the frame backbone and there are some larger holes drilled in the frame backbone. If this is truly an Otto I believe some items are incorrect such as the wheels look suspicious to me. If it’s a blacksmith copy than anything goes because the blacksmith built it out of whatever they had. Wheels appear to be wagon wheels not bicycle wheels due to the fact that the spokes have no offset at the hub. This is what leads me to believe it may be a blacksmith copy because this is a terrible way to build a bicycle wheel as it has no side strength. As for value, I would again look at past Copake Auction sales for Otto's. I know a few sold there and that would give you a ballpark value of this bike.

This is how an Otto wheel spokes should look. So I am fairly certain the bicycle above is a blacksmith copy.


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## Rambler (Jan 9, 2018)

By The Way, I see a tag hanging from the Blacksmith Bike that appears to state the year to be 1863-1865. That date is not correct. This bike would be no earlier than 1870 and more likely late 1870's early 1880's.


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## TR6SC (Jan 9, 2018)

I think Rambler has nailed it perfectly. The Columbia Expert was probably the most popular bike of the era, so the brake parts have been reproduced. Nice bars, grips, and pedals by the way. Check the wheelsize. Most common was 50" and 52". 
If you're over 6" tall, those sizes will feel a bit cramped. 56" and larger bikes have a bit more value do to rarity. People back then tended to be shorter. If you are serious about the Ordinary bikes, join The Wheelmen.


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## Craig Allen (Jan 9, 2018)

The handlebars are replacements but the double grips are original.


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