# Real Phantom seat, no reserve auction on the swamp



## Balloonatic (Mar 1, 2018)

Ebay auction for a nice, orig. Phantom seat - no reserve too. Nice...

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=263524254376


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## Jay81 (Mar 2, 2018)

That is a repop, not an original.


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## tripple3 (Mar 2, 2018)

Jay81 said:


> That is a repop, not an original.



Are you sure??
What are the differences??


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## Jay81 (Mar 2, 2018)

tripple3 said:


> Are you sure??
> What are the differences??
> View attachment 762449 View attachment 762450 View attachment 762451 View attachment 762452 View attachment 762453




I guess I should have worded that differently. No, I'm not 100% sure, but I personally don't believe it's an original. It looks like a repop to me.


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## GTs58 (Mar 2, 2018)

I don't think that's real leather, (it's not) so............


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## KingSized HD (Mar 3, 2018)

But the title says 1950s Vintage NOS so it must be, right?!? The internet doesn’t lie would it??


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## rustjunkie (Mar 3, 2018)

GTs58 said:


> I don't think that's real leather, (it's not) so............




Why do you say it’s not leather?


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## KingSized HD (Mar 3, 2018)

If this helps here are pics of the bottom of the seat on my ‘95 Centennial Phantom. My bike is bone stock original.
The top of the seat doesn’t vary from the one shown; same stamp, rivet placement, Schwinn approved tabs. Only variation I see is the front carriage bolt on mine is all black, not silver on one side. But I’m not saying his isn’t original, I don’t have enough knowledge to know.
I know it matters as to how it’s represented for sale but does it really matter from the standpoint of using it if the knowledgeable people on the CABE can’t even tell the difference for sure?


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## rustjunkie (Mar 3, 2018)

Dollars to donuts this saddle was restored by Jim Bailey.


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## Balloonatic (Mar 3, 2018)

@rustjunkie, let's give a little context here - For those that don't know, Jim Bailey was THE guy to restore your vintage bike seat in the late 1970s and 80s when this hobby really took off. His work was legendary, and would be mentioned when you bought or sold a bike if it had a "Bailey saddle". Mention of his name gave extra value to the bike, or at least the saddle, much as a Scott Allison restoration does today. (Is my nose brown? ;o) Same with paint by Weider, who is still painting high-end vintage cars to this day, his work was widely accepted as the best. Unfortunately, rumor has it Bailey departed several years ago, and cannot confirm or deny he worked on this particular saddle. But if you're still alive Jim Bailey, please chime in, or if someone knows him, please let us know?

To my knowledge, Jim Bailey dropped off the face of the earth long before the 1995 reproduction Schwinn Phantom arrived on the scene, and to my knowledge there were no repro Phantom saddles made before its debut, so if this saddle was indeed restored by Bailey, it's extremely likely he started with an original, 1950s Phantom seat- upshot; this auction is likely not wrong that it's a 1950s Phantom saddle, it most definitely is not the '95 repro.

@Jay81, I'm glad you went back and corrected your first comment, I bristle when folks proffer their _*opinion*_ as *fact*. 

And @GTs58, this seat is most definitely leather. Seller says it passes the "sniff" test, and I can tell from just looking at it, I did leather work on antique band organs and calliopes for nearly 4 decades and can spot real leather a mile away. @rustjunkie will confirm as well. Another example of proffering an opinion as fact... sorry to call you guys on the carpet with this, but as CABE members I think we should all examine whether our statements here are actually fact, and can back them up as such, or just our _opinion_. Many people come to the CABE for information, so it's important to make the distinction. 

Soap box neatly put away now... let's go ride our bikes!!


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## WES PINCHOT (Mar 3, 2018)

THIS IS THE BEST WAY TO KNOW THAT YOU HAVE AN ORIGINAL PHANTOM SEAT!


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## bobcycles (Mar 3, 2018)

A beautifully preserved Bailey saddle indeed!  Some of the Phantom and B1 saddles
Bailey restored did not hold up through the ages due to the mold that occasionally occurs
when the vegi-tan leather is wet formed and dried.  Drying is key..... and maybe
due to the volume of work he produced, he was a bit hasty on some.
  This one looks like it dodged the 'mold bullet' nicely and should stand the test of time.
Pretty hard to out do the quality of work exhibited with this saddle resto, tho we all try.
If that doesn't hit 300 bux on the bay I'd be shocked!


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## Mike Hughes (Mar 3, 2018)

Let me just say, this is a very nice looking seat. Even if protected untreated leather will usually darken with age but not always. I have a Jim Bailey restored seat on my Black Phantom which is currently on E-Bay see ( SCHWINN BLACK PHANTOM 26" BICYCLE ) and it looks very similar to the one in question here. My seat has never been treated with anything and it was restored by Jim Bailey in Dec. of 1990, I have the receipt right here in front of me, that's 28 years ago. In conclusion my opinion is this is a real deal 1950's Phantom seat restored by Jim Bailey of Signal Hill Ca. ( PS ) "NOBODY WAS BETTER THAN BAILEY"


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## WES PINCHOT (Mar 4, 2018)

Mike Hughes said:


> Let me just say, this is a very nice looking seat. Even if protected untreated leather will usually darken with age but not always. I have a Jim Bailey restored seat on my Black Phantom which is currently on E-Bay see ( SCHWINN BLACK PHANTOM 26" BICYCLE ) and it looks very similar to the one in question here. My seat has never been treated with anything and it was restored by Jim Bailey in Dec. of 1990, I have the receipt right here in front of me, that's 28 years ago. In conclusion my opinion is this is a real deal 1950's Phantom seat restored by Jim Bailey of Signal Hill Ca. ( PS ) "NOBODY WAS BETTER THAN BAILEY"



I WOULD SAY BOB U. IS A STEP UP FROM BAILEY!
BOB YOU ARE TOO MODEST!


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## hellshotrods (Mar 4, 2018)

rustjunkie said:


> Dollars to donuts this saddle was restored by Jim Bailey.
> 
> View attachment 763252





How many donuts are we talking about here ????


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## WES PINCHOT (Mar 4, 2018)

bobcycles said:


> A beautifully preserved Bailey saddle indeed!  Some of the Phantom and B1 saddles
> Bailey restored did not hold up through the ages due to the mold that occasionally occurs
> when the vegi-tan leather is wet formed and dried.  Drying is key..... and maybe
> due to the volume of work he produced, he was a bit hasty on some.
> ...




IS THAT "vegi-tan leather" REAL LEATHER?


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## bobcycles (Mar 11, 2018)

Bummer that this auctions ran its course as an NOS saddle when it was not the case.

$ reflect NOS minded bidding....not restored.... 

No effort made on the listing to reflect the knowledge gained here on this forum...


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## fattyre (Mar 12, 2018)

Holy crap $537 dollars?!


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## Freqman1 (Mar 12, 2018)

fattyre said:


> Holy crap $537 dollars?!



That's going to be one expensive Phantom!


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## bobcycles (Mar 12, 2018)

Freqman1 said:


> That's going to be one expensive Phantom!





what are the odds the seller will let the winning bidder know it's restored and as far as it gets from NOS?

any wagers?


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## Freqman1 (Mar 13, 2018)

bobcycles said:


> what are the odds the seller will let the winning bidder know it's restored and as far as it gets from NOS?
> 
> any wagers?



If the seller was aware that this was a restored seat, regardless of who restored it, then that should have been disclosed. If that wasn't done then I believe the buyer would have recourse through Ebay for a refund. V/r Shawn


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