# Excelsior bicycles



## chitown

There are lot's of different Excelsior's out there and hopefully I can document some of these different companies and fill in the time lines of the what they built and or sold.

Excelsior Supply Co of Chicago was the founded by George Robie. Here are some clips from a 1903 Motor Magazine article:










They were exclusive distributors of several products including Continental Tires and Shelby Seamless Tubing

Here are some interior shots from that same 1903 article:


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## chitown

They moved into manufacturing sometime around 1905-06 and were listed as one of the bicycle manufacturers in a tariff hearing in 1908

Here is the 1st ad of the "Original Design" Twinn-Truss in *1906*:





Copy of the Tariff Hearings list of manufacturers in 1908


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## chitown

George Robie's son Fred was the one who pushed to get into manufacturing. They formed the Excelsior Motor & Mfg Co and built a huge plant at 22nd and Union to build engines, motorcycles, bicycles and Franks prototype cycle car.

Fred Robie is the one who contracted Frank Loyd Wright to build his house. This would become to be know as the Robie house. One of the most important of Wrights homes, it was built near the University of Chicago where Franks wife attended and had strong connections.






Here he is in his prototype car:


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## chitown

The plant at 22nd and Union was pretty massive and drained the company dry. The permit to build was done in Sept of 1910 (clip from Tribune









Here are some notes from Frank on manufacturing aspect:


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## Talewinds

I'm a big "Wright Style" fan and I never knew there was a connection between the Robie house and Excelsior. Cool! Thanks for the info Chitown!


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## chitown

The manufacturing drained the company and was turned over to creditors hands in Nov of 1910:









Not because it did not do enough business but because it did too much the Excelsior Supply Co of Chicago and with it the Excelsior Motor & Mfg Co which helped drain the supply company's resources literally are in the hands of their creditors. The fact that the companies had over reached themselves and had become embarrassed by lack of ready cash has been a matter of trade knowledge for several months but until last week it was hoped that efforts that were making to bridge the gap would prove successful then, however it became apparent that the best interests of all concerned would be served by turning over the business to the creditors who hastily were called into conference. The investigation of the creditors committee showed that during the past year the Excelsior Supply Co had done a business of more than $3,500,000 and that while the assets exceed the liabilities of $1,000,000 by fully $400,000 careful handling would be necessary to conserve and make the most of the situation. The offer of the Excelsior principals to turn over the control and direction of the business to the creditors was therefore accepted the officers of the company placing their resignations at the disposal of the committee. It is evident that this case is a case for extension is the statement subscribed to by a group of the larger creditors whose claims aggregate $650,000 and we recommend to all creditors to join with us in accepting the Excelsior Supply Co s notes for the amount now due with interest at 6 per cent per annual payable January 1, 1912. With this extension there would seem to be no occasion for alarm or concern. 

The creditors committee which according to the plan submitted is to take the entire management and control consists of:
John F Alvord of the Standard Co 
Excelsior Needle Co and National Needle Co JE Maass 
Corn Exchange National Bank of Chicago 
G.E. Benson National Tube Co 
F.E. Semal Morgan & Wright 
G & J Tire Co Hartford Rubber Works Co and Continental Caoutchouc Co 
F..L Watters Chicago Handle Bar Co 
C.C. Boynton A.R. Mosler & Co W.E. Diehl Corbin Screw Corporation.

 The original business of the Excelsior Supply Co was the sale of sewing machine supplies not the machines themselves which attained huge proportions to it were successively added the manufacture of bicycles and motorcycles and the jobbing of bicycle and automobile accessories and in each respective field the company has been a factor to be reckoned with at all times Last year under the style the Excelsior Motor & Mfg Co it took up the manufacture of automobile engines which involved such heavy outlays of cash and such large obligations that the other and firmly established and flourishing departments felt the drain and consequently were crippled.


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## chitown

Before the company was put into creditors hands, Frank may have sold to sundries portion of the business.

This is from a Feb 1909 Bicycling and Motorcycle review in the classified section:





I wonder who bought out his sundries business... I'm thinking either Mead or Chicago Cycle Supply would be the most likely. I'll have to do more digging to find that one out.


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## WES PINCHOT

*Excelsior*

Thanks for all the information and pictues on the 
excelsior company and robie house!


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## chitown

Ignaz Schwinn bought the motor plant but had no use for the bicycle manufacturing as he had his own huge facility by then. According to the buyout, Schwinn bought ALL the assets and names of Excelsior Manufacturing & Supply. But he may have made a deal to sell the name rights and old jig equipment that he didn't need anyhow.

So starting in Jan of 1912 there are two names and companies that exist in Chicago:

*Excelsior Cycle Co* (Peter O'Horo, president and general manager who would in 1916 move the company from Chicago to Michigan City Indiana. He also brought 50 families of workers to the Michigan City plant also. It was to leave the troubled labor relations.)

*Excelsior Motor & Manufacturing Co *(Schwinn bought this portion and stayed there until his new plant was built on Cortland ave in 1914)

From Jan 1912 Bicycling and Motorcycle Review industry news clip:





Followed in the same issue with this ad to distinguish the new company.





In 1913 the Schwinn owned factory and office are listed at the 22nd and Union address.


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## catfish

Very cool info! Thanks for posting it.


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## fat tire trader

chitown said:


> They moved into manufacturing sometime around 1905-06 and were listed as one of the bicycle manufacturers in a tariff hearing in 1908
> 
> Here is the 1st ad of the "Original Design" Twinn-Truss in *1906*:




 Does anyone have an example of the Twinn Truss model with the crankset shown in the ad? It looks like the cranks that came in a bike that I am trying to identify.
Thanks,
Chris


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## chitown

Things happened pretty fast with Fred Robie running Excelsior and expanding so quickly. They moved from their 223-227 Randolph st address briefly to this spot (400 w Randolph) right on the river with a dock that would transport directly from the factory down the river at the 22nd st slip. The other side had rail access across from Chicago's main train stations. Not sure what happened to this building or the contents inside but it is almost across the street from where the Mead retail/warehouse would be located.

This is taken from a Cycling and Automobile Trade mag June 1910:


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## bricycle

Wow, love the info!!!! thanks for sharing, you rock! Looks like they may have built cycles for Elgin/Sears?


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## chitown

I showed these in the Gary Mc thread of the treasure trove of bike links. I had mistakenly referred to them as Schwinn ads (with no objections to the contrary).

So I think these are important ads. The fact that these are not Schwinn is huge! Even more intriguing is the drop-stand on the "Model A" that is so often attributed to the early Chiefs.

1914 ad showing the 1915 line-up:













This got me thinking... maybe Sears and Mead had a frame builder more local than Dayton, Ohio that they could get moto-bike style frames built quick and cheep by experienced bicycle men. Maybe Sears used the same company for their bicycle frames as they did for their motorcycle frames... Excelsior Cycle Co.


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## chitown

bricycle said:


> Looks like they may have built cycles for Elgin/Sears?




Only thing I see different is Sears/Elgins show the triple plate fork crown which I attribute to Mead (1910-1920's) and later Westfield (1920's forward)

Mead was know for buying stripped down frames. He was also know for importing English components such as the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hubs and 1/2" pitch chains and sprockets.

Excelsior's original business plan was to build frames for people that wanted to assemble bicycles and motorcycles. Seams like a perfect match.

Now here is where I am going to stretch a little and make some more wild theories. Some based on real events.

Schwinn and Mead form a bank in 1915.
Excelsior Cycle show large jump in stock valuation in 1915 *
Excelsior Cycle Co no longer making motorcycles
Excelsior Cycle Co makes plans to move to Michigan City and just build bicycles, no more motorcycles... (Sounds like Mead and Schwinn bought them out... or bullied them out of town)
1916 Arrow Cycle Co shows up with Mead, Schwinn and Sears Chief features


* June 1915 Chicago Tribune


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## chitown

http://archive.org/stream/bicyclingworldmo00leag#page/n807/mode/2up

This is a great couple of pages that lists all the parts manufacturers and jobbers etc.

Going back to the unique drop-stands on the '15 Excelsior Cycle Co, they are listed as stand suppliers in 1914:

*STANDS*
Aera Mfg. Co., 410 Siegel St., Chicago, 111.
Adams & Co., Henrv T., 6823 So. Chicago Ave., Chicago, 111.
Ero Mfg. Co., Chicago, III.
EXCELSIOR CYCLE CO., 166 N. Sangamon St., Chicago. 111.
International Stamping Co., 1852 W. Austin Ave., Chicago. III.
JOHNSON'S ARMS & CYCLE WORKS, IVER, Fitchburg, Mass.
Maiestic Mfg. Co., Worcester. Mass.
Wald Mfg. Co., Sheboygan, Wis.


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## chitown

*Here we have a 1912 Excelsior Cycle built De Luxe next to a 1914 Sears De Luxe*


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## rustyspoke66

Great work, thanks for all your time!


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## chitown

Thanks guys for the compliments. The web of manufacturers, jobbers and retailers is a crazy one in those times. I think it's important to say that Sears bought frames and bikes from many sources over the years. They even bought some from Colonel Pope's American Bicycle Company sometime around 1902-3 (contract was for 20,000 bicycles with an option for 20,000 more). This came out when Pope had his law suits for bottom bracket patent infringement against Schwinn that included Sears, Wards and tons of hardware branded machines. Sears then counter sued Pope for not delivering the additional 20,000 that was optioned in their contract. This must have been embarrassing for Pope as he was so harsh in his criticism of the mail order business, yet was selling to them at the same time.  Pope countered back and said they never requested the additional 20,000 so they weren't delivered. 

I will be posting on one of the Davis threads to show how it may have been Sears that helped get Davis Sewing Machine back into bike manufacturing after 1909-11 range. They were absent from the Tariff hearings as listed in 1908. Not sure if this was due to their relationship with a mail order house such a Sears or that they weren't a large producer at the time.

Sears had used Minneapolis Motor Co for some of their 1st motorcycles, after that it was Thor and then possibly Greyhound motors too. So Excelsior wasn't an exclusive supplier for Sears as far as motorcycles. I would assume that is true for bicycles as well. I'm more focused on those early motobike Sears models like the Chief and Napoleon. I'm sticking with my theory that Sears used Mead to assemble or at least source for the forks, chains, and other English goodies equipped on the Sears models of the teens.


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## chitown

*Turning focus back to pre-buyout and liquidation in Dec 1911*

Excelsior's English connections. George Robie was the first person to import the James Safety bicycle and continued to import bicycles from Coventry England (Home to English built Excelsior and Triumph bicycles and later motorcycles until tariffs in early part of 1900's made it less profitable). And to add some crosstown connections with Mead Cycle, James Mead was setting up his connections in England around 1900-1905 and had advertisements for selling Coventry bicycles for below factory cost.

Here are the American built Excelsiors and Triumphs advertised in 1908:







In July 1907 it became public that they were entering into the Motorcycle market. 





Their first offering was the "Triumph" This is described as a very "foreign looking machine." And it does share some features with it's English cousin. The motor mounting directly to the frame instead of a loop frame that was used by others. The other is the motor (De Dion copy by Thor and the same as Indian first used to build their engines and several other makers used that year). Robie surprised the 1908 New York trade show by debuting the Excelsior with a Motor built in house! Another key feature was the double truss design to house the fuel tanks. This would become the industry standard... as would the low-far-back saddle placement.


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## chitown

chitown said:


> I wonder who bought out his sundries business... I'm thinking either Mead or Chicago Cycle Supply would be the most likely. I'll have to do more digging to find that one out.




Just found this as to who was in on the liquidation of the Sundries portion of the business.

1911 clip:


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## chitown

And as far as manufacturing talent, Robie had a good core crew who could make anything you needed. This is another clip from the 1905 article which states they often will make a part if it is discontinued and not available in a floor with all the lathes and stamping equipment to do so. (looks like they are making chain rings... or copying some)


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## chitown

*1905 was booming for Excelsior*

Robie sent Pope packing east with a suitcase full of cash.



Chicago, ILL. -

An enormous deal in the sundry line was consummated this month when 
the Excelsior Supply Company 233 237 Randolph Street acquired the 
entire bicycle and automobile sundry stock of the Western business of 
the Pope Manufacturing Co. The above firm is now the Western distributor 
for everything of the best in the auto supply line all the well known makers 
of sundries and accessories being represented in its immense stock.

Clip from g00gle b00ks:


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## hoofhearted

CHRIS (chitown) ... your documentation and presentation is wonderful to see !!!  
Thank you for your efforts and endurance !!! 

 ....  patric


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## chitown

hoofhearted said:


> Thank you for your efforts and endurance !!!




I'm enjoying this research kick I've been on and am glad to share it here on the cabe. The whole multiple Excelsior brands always bugged the bajeezus out of me and I wanted to know how separate or related these firms were. There is yet another Excelsior company from Chicago that is separate from what would become the Michigan City company (Excelsior Cycle Co) and the Schwinn company (Excelsior Motor & Manufacturing Co). The name was "Excelsior General Supply Co." and they existed after the Schwinn buyout until the late teens. But I'll have to post that stuff later. My endurance from shoveling snow all day has me in the mood to replenish some liquid carbohydrates and call it a night... but I did post this one picture from the Excelsior General Supply Co's booth at the 1914 Cycle Trade Show on another thread.


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## chitown

*Excelsior Badges*

*Pre-1912 Excelsior Supply Co, Chicago
*






*1912-1916 Excelsior Cycle Co, Chicago
*






*1916-1930's? Excelsior Cycle Co, Michigan City
*







*Unknown year... Early Teens? modified badge? Arnold Schwinn Excelsior*





Wonderful early Schwinn badged beast found here:

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?51556-Need-help-with-a-teens-20s-Chicago-exclesior


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## hoofhearted

*chitown (Chris)* ... Excellent documentation of those Excelsior badges !!!

Am still confuzed .. but in a more knowledgeable way.  Good form ..... 

..........  patric


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## chitown

*1918*





Here is an interesting ad from 1918 showing the narrow snowflake ring mostly associated with Snyder or Westfield (?) Elgins of the late twenties to early thirties.


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## chitown

Here is a clip stating they moved to the Michigan City plant on March 15, 1916.


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## kdietz

*information on this Excelsior*

any info would be helpful. only pic i have till the bike arrives next week. 
dont know much about it except it has one wooden wheel the other is steel?? 
thanks


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## cyclingday

chitown;303441  

  


 

[B said:
			
		

> Unknown year... Early Teens? modified badge? Arnold Schwinn Excelsior[/B]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wonderful early Schwinn badged beast found here:
> 
> http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?51556-Need-help-with-a-teens-20s-Chicago-exclesior




 I've got an Arnold Schwinn & Co. (E) badge just like the one shown here.
 I've always been curious about it, because what Schwinn bought, was the Excelsior Motor Manufacturing and Supply Company of Chicago. Which I thought was completely unrelated to the Michigan City Indiana Excelsior.
 The stylized (E) badge is clearly a Michigan City Excelsior badge, so what gives with the AS&Co. version?


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## chitown

cyclingday said:


> I've got an Arnold Schwinn & Co. (E) badge just like the one shown here.
> I've always been curious about it, because what Schwinn bought, was the Excelsior Motor Manufacturing and Supply Company of Chicago. Which I thought was completely unrelated to the Michigan City Indiana Excelsior.
> The stylized (E) badge is clearly a Michigan City Excelsior badge, so what gives with the AS&Co. version?




The Schwinn badge is closer to the early pre-1912. If you look at under the "Mfg by" there are some little dashes and dots that don't show up on the 2 *Excelsior Cycle Co* (Mich city & Chicago) versions.

So I think Ignaz got the leftover stock and maybe re-stamped??? with Schwinn etched into the die stamp??? The Schwinn script is suspiciously raised and not well defined so it looks altered???


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## chitown

kdietz said:


> any info would be helpful. only pic i have till the bike arrives next week.
> dont know much about it except it has one wooden wheel the other is steel??
> thanks




Looks like a mid to late twenties Michigan City built... possibly earlier. Based on the fenders and saddle mostly. Hard to tell though. If you can post serial numbers and detail pics that would be awesome. Great bike!!!


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## Jarod24

*Have a couple frame*

So I originally posted these to a Davis thread cause I thought that's what both these frame were. But I was informed they look like they are Excelsior built frames. Definitely doesn't help that the complete one has all after market stuff ha. You have a lot of helpful info here! Just curious is there any way to date them off of the codes? The red one say LB; the B is backwards and then under that it says 008?3 I cant make out the 4th number in and the 3 looks like it was almost triple stamped. Any info is appreciated thanks.

















Bare Frame:


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## Joe Hargis

*Excelsior / original*

I just figured out what the frame I have is ... just before I ran across this post and read through it today ... Fantastic info ! In the pic it has an incorrect CWC Trail Blazer badge on it ... I happened to have a 1916 Excelsior style badge and it lines up with the mounting holes perfect . The steer tube is brass also .... I will re-read to try an estimate the date on it , thanks for the post , cool stuff . I have the fenders and most other parts too ....


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## G.Wool




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## G.Wool

found this gem in laporte indiana not far from the factory in michigan city


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## G.Wool

View attachment 295657 found this gem in laporte indiana not far from the factory in michigan city


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## G.Wool




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## G.Wool

the local historical society shared some of their photos....pretty cool


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## G.Wool




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## G.Wool




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## G.Wool

View attachment 295714


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## G.Wool

chitown said:


> Here is a clip stating they moved to the Michigan City plant on March 15, 1916.



so tomorrow 100 years ago the michigan city plant opened. i live a couple miles from it i will prob go take couple pics, thanks for posting this pic!!


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## G.Wool

so michigan city badges that say excelsior cycle co were produced here between 1916 and 1934 and then changing badges to excelsior mfg co after 1934


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## mongeese

I have a very early Excelsior bicycle from Chicago. Any who wish to see it send me a message.


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## G.Wool




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## mongeese




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## mongeese




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## G.Wool




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## IronBrass&Steel

Does anyone have any idea how many different head badges were used? It seems like every Excelsior I have seen has a different head badge! Also, does anyone know when or if Excelsior used non-skip-tooth sprockets on pre-balloon tire bikes? I hope this is an alright area to ask. I found what seems to be a Chicago built Excelsior, with a non-skip-tooth sweetheart sprocket, and what was left of the 28" wheel had a non skip tooth hub (I can't remember the brand off hand). I assumed this was a modification made sometime years ago, but after talking to a knowledgeable friend, he seemed to think it could have been original. I honestly don't know, and I haven't been able to find out on the interwebs thus far. Please don't judge me for the 26" rollers I through on! Haha.


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## ace

IronBrass&Steel said:


> Does anyone have any idea how many different head badges were used? It seems like every Excelsior I have seen has a different head badge! Also, does anyone know when or if Excelsior used non-skip-tooth sprockets on pre-balloon tire bikes? I hope this is an alright area to ask. I found what seems to be a Chicago built Excelsior, with a non-skip-tooth sweetheart sprocket, and what was left of the 28" wheel had a non skip tooth hub (I can't remember the brand off hand). I assumed this was a modification made sometime years ago, but after talking to a knowledgeable friend, he seemed to think it could have been original. I honestly don't know, and I haven't been able to find out on the interwebs thus far. Please don't judge me for the 26" rollers I through on! Haha.
> View attachment 328015 View attachment 328016




My teens Excelsior


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## stoney

ace said:


> My teens Excelsior
> View attachment 328025 View attachment 328026




Love the color combo on your teens Excelsior


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## G.Wool

Found this one over the summer. If anyone has pics of complete ones please share. Gotta love the patina on this one...


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## G.Wool




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## G.Wool




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## dfa242

Here's one from 1923 or '24 -


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## Champ

Still have this ad? Would you sell it? 







chitown said:


> Here is a clip stating they moved to the Michigan City plant on March 15, 1916.


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## Champ

Still have this ad? Would you sell it?







chitown said:


> Here is a clip stating they moved to the Michigan City plant on March 15, 1916.


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## chitown

Champ said:


> Still have this ad? Would you sell it?




Can't sell what I don't own. I can track down the original scan and see if it's higher resolution than what I've posted. Most of the stuff I've posted is from various internet data bases (found with many hours of scouring and searching). I can email you a higher resolution one if I can find it.

Chris


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## G.Wool

There's some original paint left on this one but it really needs some work...


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## G.Wool

Almost complete...


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## Champ

Has anyone seen a badge like this before?!


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## G.Wool

Just in ads I've found....







Champ said:


> Has anyone seen a badge like this before?!  View attachment 399396


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## theterrym

I have seen several large red  E badge Excelsiors that say they are deluxe models. Whats the difference between my blue badge with a D for deluxe and red that says E for Excelsior?


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## G.Wool

Another excelsior possibly 20's early thirties maybe...still rides great!


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## G.Wool

theterrym said:


> I have seen several large red  E badge Excelsiors that say they are deluxe models. Whats the difference between my blue badge with a D for deluxe and red that says E for Excelsior?
> 
> View attachment 401367



That's a great question I have only seen a handful of the badges you have with the"D". That's a pretty amazing restoration you've done by the way! i will get back with you if I find anything out


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## barracuda

Great thread. I'd like to add that the Excelsior was not the only bicycle marque produced by the Excelsior Supply Company in Chicago. Before the turn of the century, they also manufactured the Thistle, made famous by world six-day champion Tillie Anderson.


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## G.Wool

G.Wool said:


> That's a great question I have only seen a handful of the badges you have with the"D". That's a pretty amazing restoration you've done by the way! i will get back with you if I find anything out


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## IronBrass&Steel

I finally put some wheels on my Chicago Excelsior! It rides great, even though the seat is pretty rough. It goes well with my 1917 Maxwell, and the girlfriend's colorful pants! Speaking of color, I believe the bright green is original!


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## Robertriley

IronBrass&Steel said:


> I finally put some wheels on my Chicago Excelsior! It rides great, even though the seat is pretty rough. It goes well with my 1917 Maxwell, and the girlfriend's colorful pants! Speaking of color, I believe the bright green is original!
> View attachment 432913 View attachment 432914 View attachment 432915
> View attachment 432917



What year is yours?


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## OldSkipTooth

very nice!


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## OldSkipTooth

1918. The badge is repop with patina.


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## OldSkipTooth

Need funds to build her out!


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## OldSkipTooth




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## OldSkipTooth




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## Woody78

I have no idea what year this bike is I'll post some pictures maybe somebody can tell me, I don't want to give it away and if I put it up on the internet without knowing what it is I'll probably give it away, it appears to be all original everything works on it with the exception of the coaster brake and the tires are a little bad no Tire in the front and the back one has probably been dead for 80 years. Spokes are tight and everything turns thank you for any information you can give me


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## G.Wool

OldSkipTooth said:


> View attachment 637388



That's an old one there I've only seen that frame in ads. It would have had the cycle co badge not the manufacturing co. Nice bike man!!


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## G.Wool

OldSkipTooth said:


> View attachment 637388


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## anders1

G.Wool said:


> View attachment 712781
> That's an old one there I've only seen that frame in ads. It would have had the cycle co badge not the manufacturing co. Nice bike man!!



I would love to find out what age this one is, maybe one of you can help,,, please. Just picked it up, thanks


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## anders1

anders1 said:


> View attachment 829566 View attachment 829567 View attachment 829568 View attachment 829569 View attachment 829570
> I would love to find out what age this one is, maybe one of you can help,,, please. Just picked it up, thanks
> 
> View attachment 829571


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## anders1




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## Champ

chitown said:


> *Excelsior Badges*
> 
> *Pre-1912 Excelsior Supply Co, Chicago*
> 
> View attachment 556985
> 
> 
> 
> *1912-1916 Excelsior Cycle Co, Chicago*
> 
> View attachment 556986
> 
> 
> 
> *1916-1930's? Excelsior Cycle Co, Michigan City*
> 
> 
> View attachment 556987
> 
> 
> 
> *Unknown year... Early Teens? modified badge? Arnold Schwinn Excelsior*
> 
> View attachment 556988
> 
> Wonderful early Schwinn badged beast found here:
> 
> http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?51556-Need-help-with-a-teens-20s-Chicago-exclesior



Ever seen this one before?!


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## Champ

chitown said:


> Just found this as to who was in on the liquidation of the Sundries portion of the business.
> 
> 1911 clip:
> 
> View attachment 535639



.   Can you tell me what’s going on here with these two headbadges?! Excelsior Cycle Supply Co. and Excelsior Supply Co. headbadges. Similar style. Different companies?


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## cyclingday

The upper badge in your photo, is from the Chicago Cycle Supply.
They were a well known and established retail supply house.


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## cyclingday

Since this wonderful thread got re booted, I thought I’d add this one for posterity.


This 1918 Excelsior Cycle Co. Auto-Bike,
Is the same frame from post #73 on page #4 by Old Skip Tooth.


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## frank 81

G.Wool said:


> View attachment 296040



 What Year is your bike??


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## Champ

If they are two different companies, why would they have very similar headbadges? Excelsior Supply Co. and Excelsior Cycle Supply Co. Was there an overlap in ownership of companies?


cyclingday said:


> The upper badge in your photo, is from the Chicago Cycle Supply.
> They were a well known and established retail supply house.


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## Champ

Love your bike!


cyclingday said:


> Since this wonderful thread got re booted, I thought I’d add this one for posterity.View attachment 1057987


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## cyclingday

Champ said:


> If they are two different companies, why would they have very similar headbadges? Excelsior Supply Co. and Excelsior Cycle Supply Co. Was there an overlap in ownership of companies?




I think, it’s probably more of a rights to the name timeline issue than an ownership overlap.
It’s confusing, all these years later, but when Frederic Robie sold the assets from the Excelsior Motor Manufacturing and Supply Company, he sold off separate assets to separately interested parties.
Arnold Schwinn and Company only bought the rights and tooling that pertained to the motorcycle business,
They didn’t need or want the bicycle rights and tooling, so that was sold to what would become, the Excelsior Cycle Company.
They continued to operate in Chicago for a few years, before moving to Michigan City Indiana, and a close relationship had been established with the retail outfit, Chicago Cycle Supply.
When Robie sold the company, all three entities bought the bits and pieces.
So, it’s possible, that the name Triumph, was something that Chicago Cycle Supply picked up in the process.
They never actually manufactured bicycles, so the bike it’s self, would’ve been made by one of their suppliers, and they would’ve just put that badge on it, for sale out of their supply house.
Because they all came from the same origin, there were similarities between the various outlets and manufacturers who sold the wares afterward.
It is odd, that there weren’t any legal disputes between the joint use of the Excelsior brand, but it may have been that both companies bought the rights to the name, and there wasn’t ever any contractual difference established between the Motorcycles and the Bicycles, so they both had a legal right to use the name, and that’s just the way it is?


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## decotriumph

This is a wonderful thread. Thanks!


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## Champ

Wow! Thank you so much for your in-depth explanation!


cyclingday said:


> I think, it’s probably more of a rights to the name timeline issue than an ownership overlap.
> It’s confusing, all these years later, but when Frederic Robie sold the assets from the Excelsior Motor Manufacturing and Supply Company, he sold off separate assets to separately interested parties.
> Arnold Schwinn and Company only bought the rights and tooling that pertained to the motorcycle business,
> They didn’t need or want the bicycle rights and tooling, so that was sold to what would become, the Excelsior Cycle Company.
> They continued to operate in Chicago for a few years, before moving to Michigan City Indiana, and a close relationship had been established with the retail outfit, Chicago Cycle Supply.
> When Robie sold the company, all three entities bought the bits and pieces.
> So, it’s possible, that the name Triumph, was something that Chicago Cycle Supply picked up in the process.
> They never actually manufactured bicycles, so the bike it’s self, would’ve been made by one of their suppliers, and they would’ve just put that badge on it, for sale out of their supply house.
> Because they all came from the same origin, there were similarities between the various outlets and manufacturers who sold the wares afterward.
> It is odd, that there weren’t any legal disputes between the joint use of the Excelsior brand, but it may have been that both companies bought the rights to the name, and there wasn’t ever any contractual difference established between the Motorcycles and the Bicycles, so they both had a legal right to use the name, and that’s just the way it is?



!


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## ssum2

Great thread so thought I would post some pics of my 1922 excelsior almost done with build


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## ssum2

She rides excellent just a fun bike to ride


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## G.Wool

frank 71 said:


> What Year is your bike??



I'm not sure of the year possibly late 40's


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## frank 81

G.Wool said:


> I'm not sure of the year possibly late 40's



 Thanks


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## Champ

Would you sell the Excelsior chainring?


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## cyclingday

1927 Schwinn built, Excelsior.


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## New Mexico Brant

An Excelsior Triumph:


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## cyclingday

Nice!
Cool headbadge.
Are the rims clinchers or single tube?


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## New Mexico Brant

cyclingday said:


> Nice!
> Cool headbadge.
> Are the rims clinchers or single tube?



Marty,
The rims appear to be the Crescent "Beaded Edge" type "H" or possibly the older Williams type referenced here.  The bike in transit now and is due to arrive to me on Friday so I will know more then.


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## Dc76

Great read thanks for posting


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## vanhook

I have a prewar schwinn excelsior ladies bike made in chicago and I have not been able to find one other bike like it. The serial number under the bottom bracket is K 2832 and the number on the crank is M 36


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## catfish




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## stezell

vanhook said:


> I have a prewar schwinn excelsior ladies bike made in chicago and I have not been able to find one other bike like it. The serial number under the bottom bracket is K 2832 and the number on the crank is M 36
> 
> View attachment 1609661
> 
> View attachment 1609662
> 
> View attachment 1609663
> 
> The chainring isn't Schwinn it reminds me of a Hawthorne and the rear rack is an Elgin or some other manufacturer. Welcome to the group and it looks like you have a good start.
> 
> V/r
> Sean
> 
> View attachment 1609664
> 
> View attachment 1609665


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## Archie Sturmer

The refurbished red bike looks like an A&S, but with a Excelsior Michigan City chain ring front sprocket.  The M-crank may have been from a Mead Chicago bike?


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