# Antique Schwinns where are they?



## Balloontyre (Aug 14, 2013)

Seems the Schwinn badge is not seen much prior to the ballooner era, where are they? Obviously they produced bikes under other badges, but where are the Schwinn badged bikes?


Does anyone have some pics to share?


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## MrColumbia (Aug 14, 2013)

Schwinn existed before 1933? I hadn't realized that. 

Just kidding but you are correct, you don't see a lot of pre-ballooner Schwinn badged bikes out there. Didn't they make many of the Mead bikes? I'm not that familiar with the details of AS history.


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## rhenning (Aug 14, 2013)

Before WW2 Schwinn was more of a wholesaler than a retailer.  This was especially true pre 1930.  They built many bikes with other peoples names on them similar to Giant in the 1980s before they started their own brand name after fighting with Schwinn.  Roger


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## bricycle (Aug 14, 2013)

I'm no expert, but I would think they could make a bigger footprint by selling to other companies (than just their own name) untill they became huge, and then reveal their own name. By then they would have(and did) corner the market.

...ok, Maybe by '33 they didn't have the lions share of the bike market, but by WW2 I would guess they had, NO?


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## MrColumbia (Aug 14, 2013)

bricycle said:


> I'm no expert, but I would think they could make a bigger footprint by selling to other companies (than just their own name) untill they became huge, and then reveal their own name. By then they would have(and did) corner the market.




History shows that this mentioned strategy can work for you or dead against you. I guess in the case of Schwinn it worked for them though I would hesitate to say they ever "_cornered_ the market". Columbia's strategy was equally sketchy. Exaggerate and claim you were America's First Bicycle. Then do an unbelievable media blitz that lasted for decades. It worked in the early years, in later years no one cared about anything but cheap bikes and Asia won the massed produced bicycle game. In the end all the big American bicycle company's lost. They each had their brief time in the sun. Schwinn's was the 1930's to early 70's. Not too bad.


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## bricycle (Aug 14, 2013)

"C" above revision, Mr C...


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## MrColumbia (Aug 14, 2013)

bricycle said:


> "C" above revision, Mr C...




Did they? Lions share? In WWII it was Huffman and Westfield who scored the big military contracts. Lots of Westfield made Elgin's too during the war. I don't have production numbers. I just think "Corner" which to me means _virtually all _or _almost all _is far beyond what they did in any era. Did they make more bikes than any of the other companies... probably and I'm sure they did by the 1950's. Corner...no. That was my take on the statement. If you notice I gave them credit for being successful in their strategy. 

In any case, the original question still remains...ware are all the pre-war Schwinn badged bikes??? I want to see them too. Despite my name I'm not a one trick pony. I've owned Schwinn's myself.


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## bricycle (Aug 14, 2013)

MrColumbia said:


> Did they? Lions share? In WWII it was Huffman and Westfield who scored the big military contracts. Lots of Westfield made Elgin's too during the war. I don't have production numbers. I just think "Corner" which to me means _virtually all _or _almost all _is far beyond what they did in any era. Did they make more bikes than any of the other companies... probably and I'm sure they did by the 1950's. Corner...no. That was my take on the statement. If you notice I gave them credit for being successful in their strategy.
> 
> In any case, the original question still remains...ware are all the pre-war Schwinn badged bikes??? I want to see them too. Despite my name I'm not a one trick pony. I've owned Schwinn's myself.




I wouldn't say I am or am not a Schwinn fan... by "corner" I simply meant majority. It just seems there happens to be "more" post 38 Schwinns than anything else out there, NO? Elgin(Westfield/Murray) sure gave 'em a rough time tho-


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## vincev (Aug 14, 2013)




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## bricycle (Aug 14, 2013)

vincev said:


>




....Vince, stop wasting $ on popcorn, you'll need it for my JCH.


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## cyclingday (Aug 14, 2013)

Even though Ignaz started out building bicycles, his primary focus was on the production of motorcycles. 
It's no coincidence, that when he retired in 1931, and his son Frank, (who had no interest in building motorcycles,) took over control, that the production of bicycles ramped up to the point, where they would eventually dominate the market.


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## fordsnake (Aug 14, 2013)

I have another thought...We know that Schwinn had a strong foothold as a jobber for big catalog retailers, and remember catalogs were like the internet back in the early days.

There's documented evidence that the bike manufactures back then resented and hated the catalog retailers i.e., Sears, Montgomery Wards, and the thousands of hardware enterprises. The bike industry felt their products were being undersold by catalog retailers who were selling an equivalent product for much much less. Similar to todays brick & mortar vs catalog & internet sales...it's all about the bottom line and profit margins.

I imagine Schwinn chose the gravy train; to manufactured for the big retailers (who bought in large quantity) as opposed to whole selling their bikes to the cluster of small independent bicycle shops?  

Just a theory?


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## slick (Aug 14, 2013)

Just from my own personal accounts....

A good chunk of the Schwinn population resides in the L.A. area and all seem to migrate to the city of Long Beach, Ca. on the 1st sunday of every month for some reason? 

That reason....the best vintage bicycle ride in the world. The gathering of ALL old bicycles that get ridden. The Cyclone Coaster vintage bicycle ride with the friendliest group of riders in the world. 

Ride VINTAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Karla and I miss our L.A. family. She's doing quite well btw. Recovering quickly and should be walking again in 2-3 months.


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## Balloontyre (Aug 15, 2013)

slick said:


> Just from my own personal accounts....
> 
> A good chunk of the Schwinn population resides in the L.A. area and all seem to migrate to the city of Long Beach, Ca. on the 1st sunday of every month for some reason?
> 
> ...




wow, very insightful and totally helpful to the subject at hand. I think I'll go dust my bikes.


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## JChapoton (Aug 15, 2013)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwinn_Bicycle_Company


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## MrColumbia (Aug 15, 2013)

JChapoton said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwinn_Bicycle_Company




And there is the answer. It was not until after 1950 that Schwinn decided to stop rebranding and build up their own dealer network.


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## Waterland (Aug 15, 2013)

They're out there, just not as plentiful as the post-33 Schwinns.  Here's a picture of my 1927 Juvenile model with an actual Schwinn badge ("Electric" badge, which isn't seen often on actual bikes).  This was taken right after I got it, the red spray paint has been stripped to reveal the original paint underneath and everything has been cleaned, just needs put back together.


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## Champy (Aug 15, 2013)

*What?*



cyclingday said:


> Even though Ignaz started out building bicycles, his primary focus was on the production of motorcycles.
> It's no coincidence, that when he retired in 1931, and his son Frank, (who had no interest in building motorcycles,) took over control, that the production of bicycles ramped up to the point, where they would eventually dominate the market.




Nonsense!!!!


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## chitown (Aug 16, 2013)

cyclingday said:


> Even though Ignaz started out building bicycles, his primary focus was on the production of motorcycles.
> It's no coincidence, that when he retired in 1931, and his son Frank, (who had no interest in building motorcycles,) took over control, that the production of bicycles ramped up to the point, where they would eventually dominate the market.




Ignaz is the one who made the call to switch to exclusive bicycle production and abandon the motorcycles.

As far as Ignaz' focus on the motorcycle, he stumbled onto motorcycles and was lucky when Excelsiors stock holders called for cash, just as Excelsiors were burning up the tracks and whooping some Indian ass on the tracks. Fred Robie had heavily invested in building motors and had invested more than the cash value of the company. Schwinn had the cash to buy the motor plant out and had no use for the sundries portion (Chicago Cycle Supply got that) and he already had bicycle production capabilities (Peter O'Horo's Excelsior Cycle Co got that part of the old Excelsior Supply Co). When Schwinn quite in '31 he was third behind Indian and Harley Davidson. Kids bikes were the next big craze and Schwinn made the right call I think in his refocus on the bicycle.

As far as branding. Selling blanks to jobbers was indeed lucrative enough to continue doing so throughout the 1st part of the 20th century. I come at this from the angle of world politics, namely WWI. One of Schwinn's top customers was probably James Mead. Mead was of blue blood English stock. Schwinn was German. Mead shipped their parts from England on the Lusitania. So Germany and England were at war and a German American and and English American were doing business with each other and not looking back. When the Lusitania was sunk... so were any chances of a German immigrate branding a cycle with his name on it. Rangers were much a safer bet to push to the American youth. Rangers were marketed as a Boy Scouts dream bike. And hardware badged bikes were really taking off in the late teens and twenties.


I had mentioned in the "nickel to chrome" date thread that I have never seen any Schwinn catalogs from '29-'32. Do they even exist? Are they being held captive with no chance of public viewing of knowledge? There are other huge gaps in the Schwinn pre-ballooner catalogs that I wonder if they were "trade only" publications and limited numbers produced... just as the Schwinn badged bikes of the early 1900's.


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## vanhook (Apr 19, 2022)

I have a pre war schwinn excelsior ladies bike made in chicago and I have not been able to find one other bike like it. The serial number under the bottom bracket is K 2832 and the number on the crank is M 36


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## Freqman1 (Apr 19, 2022)

vanhook said:


> I have a pre war schwinn excelsior ladies bike made in chicago and I have not been able to find one other bike like it. The serial number under the bottom bracket is K 2832 and the number on the crank is M 36
> 
> View attachment 1609717
> 
> ...



Looks a little frankenbiked to me. Let’s see a pic of the serial number.


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## HEMI426 (Apr 19, 2022)

I think your right Shawn, the fenders and rack don't look OG to that frame, the rear fender looks to have been bobed about 4 or 5 in. Grips, no guard and the sold tag on the bars. Maybe we could hear the story about the bike.


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## stezell (Apr 19, 2022)

He posted it under the Excelsior thread guys.

Sean


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## vanhook (Apr 19, 2022)

I can send the a picture of the serial number when I get home but its K 2382


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## brwstrmgmt (Apr 19, 2022)

Here's a couple of pics of a 1918 Henderson that once lived with me.


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## dasberger (Apr 19, 2022)

brwstrmgmt said:


> Here's a couple of pics of a 1918 Henderson that once lived with me.
> View attachment 1609864
> 
> 
> ...



Great bike! Any chance you have the serial from this bike or the crank date?  Love to add it to the Pre '33 Schwinn registry









						Pre '33 AS&CO Serial Number Project | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

Greetings CABE Land and welcome to the Unofficial Pre '33 Schwinn Thread.  This has come up a number of times in other threads and mentioned again yesterday.  Let's get it done!  It's time to put together a collection of all things Pre '33 Schwinn and get a Serial # registry going.    Please...




					thecabe.com


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## Freqman1 (Apr 19, 2022)

1898 Schwinn "The World" Model 22 Gents Roadster


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## dasberger (Apr 19, 2022)

@Freqman1 for the win... "The World" Champion!


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## Porkchop & Applesauce (Apr 19, 2022)

Here’s a 32


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## dasberger (Apr 19, 2022)

Porkchop & Applesauce said:


> Here’s a 32
> 
> View attachment 1610017
> 
> ...



Love the color on that badge! Send me serial and I'll add it to the next update


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## dasberger (Apr 19, 2022)

@barneyguey orange??  Was this a yellow badge that aged funky?  Possible looking at the paint on the frame


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## barneyguey (Apr 19, 2022)

dasberger said:


> @barneyguey orange??  Was this a yellow badge that aged funky?  Possible looking at the paint on the frame



The badge looks repainted to me.


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## vanhook (Apr 19, 2022)

To me while looking at the bike it looks like the bike was rusted over on the lower bar and so someone tried matching the top bar paint and then they 
Unfortunately  painted over the badge


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## vanhook (Apr 19, 2022)

I did clean up these parts


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## brwstrmgmt (Apr 20, 2022)

dasberger said:


> Great bike! Any chance you have the serial from this bike or the crank date?  Love to add it to the Pre '33 Schwinn registry
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, no.  Bike is long gone.


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## New Mexico Brant (Apr 30, 2022)

Teens period Schwinn Henderson badge:


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## cyclingday (Apr 30, 2022)

chitown said:


> Ignaz is the one who made the call to switch to exclusive bicycle production and abandon the motorcycles.
> 
> As far as Ignaz' focus on the motorcycle, he stumbled onto motorcycles and was lucky when Excelsiors stock holders called for cash, just as Excelsiors were burning up the tracks and whooping some Indian ass on the tracks. Fred Robie had heavily invested in building motors and had invested more than the cash value of the company. Schwinn had the cash to buy the motor plant out and had no use for the sundries portion (Chicago Cycle Supply got that) and he already had bicycle production capabilities (Peter O'Horo's Excelsior Cycle Co got that part of the old Excelsior Supply Co). When Schwinn quite in '31 he was third behind Indian and Harley Davidson. Kids bikes were the next big craze and Schwinn made the right call I think in his refocus on the bicycle.



 You make it sound like AS&Co. just bumbled along during the motorcycle production years.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
AS&Co invested heavily in both research and development between the prime years of 1912-1931.
Many of the innovations at Schwinn, were industry changers.
By 1929 they had developed the fastest, most advanced production motorcycle in America.
The crash of 29, and the Great Depression was what led Ignaz to the decision to hang it up and retire in 1931.
And yes, it was Ignaz that would make the call, but it was his son Frank that would guide the bicycle company from then on.
AS&Co. had become primarily a motorcycle manufacturer between the years 1912-1931.
That isn’t to say, that production at the bicycle manufacturing plant was non existent.
They cranked out over a million bicycles during that same time period.
But, it was after this time period that the big changes started happening over at the bicycle manufacturing plant.


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