# please Help ID my childhood Klunker



## Sportyworty (Nov 25, 2022)

I took this pic in 1975. It was a banana seat bike conversion and I was 10 at the time. I have been looking at frames and so far unable to recognize anything similar. The twin tube seems pretty straight with a downward angle. I would sure appreciate you guys weighing in on any distinguishable parts at all. This is also Vancouver Island Canada and I’m sorry it’s a pic of an old photograph but it’s all I have to work from. There are a couple more pics in the Birds of a feather introductions. I would like to build a very similar bike starting today.
Kerry


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Nov 26, 2022)

Sportyworty said:


> I took this pic in 1975. It was a banana seat bike conversion and I was 10 at the time. I have been looking at frames and so far unable to recognize anything similar. The twin tube seems pretty straight with a downward angle. I would sure appreciate you guys weighing in on any distinguishable parts at all. This is also Vancouver Island Canada and I’m sorry it’s a pic of an old photograph but it’s all I have to work from. There are a couple more pics in the Birds of a feather introductions. I would like to build a very similar bike starting today.
> Kerry
> 
> View attachment 1739468



Welcome, your bike had a 3 piece crank which would  indicate a European made bike. Maybe try looking at some Raligh's or maybe a Stelber. Maybe someone will have a more positive ID. Good luck on your hunt.


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## bikemonkey (Nov 26, 2022)

Try looking at CCM muscle bikes. Here is an example.








						See 50 vintage banana seat bikes for kids from the 60s & 70s - Click Americana
					

50 years ago, the coolest vintage banana seat bikes for kids also had bright colors, high handlebars and slick rear tires. Check 'em out here!




					clickamericana.com


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Nov 26, 2022)

bikemonkey said:


> Try looking at CCM muscle bikes. Here is an example.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good call, the sprocket looks like a CCM


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## juvela (Nov 26, 2022)

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Hello Kerry and welcome to the forum!

Your two images give three clues to suggest a possible european origin.

The frame is constructed with a lugged head - fairly complex looking lugs.

The chainwheel pattern is one used very widely for generations by manufacturers in a number of countries.

The cycle's chainset appears to be of the cottered three-piece type.

The stamped aluminum sheet fork crown cap is something common on German and Dutch cycles.
Note that none of the CCM cycles posted above exhibit such a cap.  Their frames show simple bulge-formed heads rather than the ornate lugged head of your frame.

One possibility might be that the cycle was contract manufactured by a foreign company for a chainstore such as Eaton's.

If the bicycle were of european origin the most likely nations for it to have come from would have been Germany, The Netherlands & Austria.  A possible German producer would be Bauer and a possible Dutch one would be Batavus.  The only Austrian candidate would be Steyr. 

You make no mention of a brand name for the bicycle.

At that age it is likely to have been a gift from an adult.

If relatives of your parents generation are yet about you could ask if they know what store it may have come from.

At the time of the photos you had a wonderful resource for cycle lore right there in the heart of Victoria in the form of The Ace Bicycle Shop.  You could check the social media web sites to see if there is a group for the shop.  Former workers there would have an intimate knowledge of the Canada cycle market at this time.

This forum has members who are specialists in Canadian market cycles; they may be able to give some valuable information regarding your bicycle.


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## Sportyworty (Nov 26, 2022)

Thank you all so much! This provides me with a good foundation to work from. The bike was a hand me down from a friends older brother. I recognized it was a better bike than my new Huffy previously mentioned in the Birds of a Feather intro. I had always remembered the bike as a BRC but it does not appear to be the case. There were a lot of European bikes on the island as you recognize above. I have been studying frames as far as the bar shapes and angles. The only bikes my amateur eyes see with somewhat straight double lower tubes in the late 60-70’s are the BRC Jaguar, Iverson drag stripper, Rollfast, and AMF Renegade. Today after reading everyone’s posts I will try to research the CCM, Bauer, Batavus, and Steyr. I think I read that Stelber was pre BRC or an affiliation. Maybe not as BRC later we’re Korean based on previous posts here. These are all excellent leads and likely candidates over my guesses. The Bike was Gold with Green grips. I had just rattle canned it Black and added the BMX bars. I’m excited about hanging around and learning about bikes from this era. I intend to start collecting now that my car restoration life is winding down. 
coasterbrakejunky69
bikemonkey
Juvela

have made my day!

here’s the other pics in case they help


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## Sportyworty (Nov 26, 2022)

I was able to whittle away at identifying the bike. The frame style is common to a few distributors in 1970 to include bikes badged President and Executive. I see this made in West Germany and Austria. Someone stated the Executive was sold at Canadian Tire 70/71. Other bikes with lugged frames, cottered cranks, ornate caps and same sprocket similar to CCM without letter call outs are Steyr, Stebler, and Push. The Iverson has a different crank but same frame shape and I see a relation between Stelber and Iverson manufacturing.
There seems to be a link to Royce Union here as well? And then comes the detailed head lug on my bike that matches up to Raleigh possibly?
The issue with Raleigh Hi-Riser and Fireball is the top bar is a dual with a single lower cross bar. This is the only one of the lot with the head detailing. The
Steyr Push Daimler Co may be a parent company to a lot of these offerings.
I am excited to locate a frame with those almost straight double lower cross tubes. I can source the rest here on The Cabe. Here are the frames I was able to locate. However they all have smooth non lug head stocks without the detail like Raleigh and my bike. I have to be over the target now. This Purple Executive appears like the closest match so far.
The first pic is the Executive in Purple








						Vintage 60's/70's Executive Bicycle - May 14, 2019 | Elite Auction Co. LLC in PA
					

Up for auction is a 1960's/70's era Executive Bicycle made in Austria. This bike is in overall good condition with sm... on May 14, 2019




					www.liveauctioneers.com
				



The second pic is an Iverson
The third pic is a Royce Union ad
The Fourth pic is Wards Xmas catalog
The Fifth pic is a Raleigh stem which looks like mine? Open to new direction and dismissing anything here from members as I’m freelancing and looking to narrow this way down ha

I have looked at 100’s of bikes online this Thanksgiving weekend ! It would have been many more if not for the help provided by Cabe members. Thanks again now find me some parts ha fun


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## juvela (Nov 27, 2022)

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Fine pick and shovel work on your part!   😉

Noticed that both the purple and yellow machines pictured exhibit fork crown caps similar to the one on your machine.

Note on the Executive marque -

have no knowledge of the Canada market but here in the U.S. this marque seems to belong to an importer/distributor who has their bicycles contract produced overseas

products have been variously contract produced in Europe and in Asia

some of the european examples have been done by Puch/Steyr of Graz Austria

we have had threads on them here at the forum

posters have written of them being stocked by specific chain stores









						Executive bicycle | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

I picked this up last weekend. It's an "Executive" it was made in Japan. Unlike other bikes I have,I think I might try to do something more like an according to Hoyle restoration on this one. The wheels are true and spin freely. When I got it home, I adjusted the cable and the three speed and...




					thecabe.com
				












						Looking for info on another bike | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

Age  Maker Anything you can tell me :)  Thank you  What I know is it says executive , made in austria and its blue . lol




					thecabe.com
				









						Any ideas what this is? Executive 3 speed? - Bike Forums
					

Classic & Vintage - Any ideas what this is? Executive 3 speed? - A friend in upstate New York is looking to sell this and is curious what it is.



					www.bikeforums.net
				









						Bike Forums - View Single Post -  West German Bike? What is this?
					

Post 17191303 - BikeForums is the leading online discussion site for avid cyclists.



					www.bikeforums.net
				




Executive badged Steyr produced five-speed machine from Austria -








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## Sportyworty (Nov 27, 2022)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> Hello Kerry and welcome to the forum!
> 
> ...


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## Sportyworty (Nov 27, 2022)

High compliment from juvela 
I tried to send you mail but unable to locate the option in one’s profile. Taking the time to help newbies is what I do as well on the 428 Cobra Jet Registry. They are the life blood of the revolving door. I posted in the wanted section so game is officially at play now.


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## Sportyworty (Nov 27, 2022)

Here is an actual Puch label Muscle bike


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## WillWork4Parts (Nov 27, 2022)

I wish I had pictures of the girls bike I have with very similar features. I believe it has the same cranks that I have yet to be able to remove, and the same stem. It's badged "Standard" made in Germany. Unfortunately searching for Standard bicycle on Google returns pretty crap results so I couldn't find much info on the brand.


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## juvela (Nov 27, 2022)

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The forum has had prior thread or two on Standard of Germany examples.

Just to confuse things a bit there is also a Jaguar Standard badge from that nation.















						Sweet Original Standard (Goebel) | Vintage Lightweight Bicycles
					

Picked up this sweet looking bike last week... can't find any info on the web.  I was told there were only 18 sold in the US?  Do I have anything here?  I'm not really wanting to sell the bike, my wife loves the ride so all is good either way.  It's just killing us to not have any idea what we...




					thecabe.com
				












						West german, standard, | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

Cant seem to find anything on this 20inch hard rubber tire , any ideas?




					thecabe.com
				




There was also a Standard marque manufactured in the low countries and one in Australia as well.

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## juvela (Nov 27, 2022)

Sportyworty said:


> Here is an actual Puch label Muscle bike
> 
> View attachment 1740788




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Thank you.

Unfortunate that head cannot be seen more clearly.

Unable to tell if it is lugless, bulge-formed or truly lugged.

The prominent complex lugs on the head of your machine are a very good clue for you to keep an eye out for in the effort to locate a match...


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## Sportyworty (Nov 27, 2022)

I just need to figure out exactly your definition of complex lugs. The reason being it is very unclear to me. I know this is often the case with unfamiliarity. You can see the “ghost” lines on my bike that I cannot. If there was an existing lug head that was clear it would be very helpful. Did any of the bikes above look to have this detail juvela?
Here is a cheat sheet of archived EBay sales. Tap in your favorite item and start the clock ha








						Vintage Standard bicycle - page 4 | WorthPoint
					

Vintage Standard bicycle in the WorthPoint Worthopedia® Price Guide, page 4 of 1031




					www.worthpoint.com


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## Sportyworty (Nov 27, 2022)

crank set








						VINTAGE BICYCLE SEARS AUSTRIA PUCH STEYR CRANKSET 60s SPROCKET 44T 3 SPEED CRANK | #4567937874
					

PEPPERED CHROME... FITS SEARS ADULT LIGHTWEIGHT SINGLE AND 3 SPEED BIKES...PLEASE ALLOW 7-10 DAYS SHIPPING...THANKS!ALL BIKE PARTS, JEWELRY, COINS & CURRENCY PICTURED ARE ACTUAL ITEMS BEING SOLD, AS I




					www.worthpoint.com


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## juvela (Nov 27, 2022)

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wrt chainset posted immediately above -

The Styria/Steyr/Puch/Austro-Daimler entity is certainly large eno' that it is within conceivability that they might make some of the own chainsets but doubt it to be the case.  One possible maker of the set in the citation is Thun.  Do not question that the set listed may have come off of a Steyr product.


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## Andrew Gorman (Nov 27, 2022)

German manufacturers were pretty obsessive about at least labeling/stamping parts with their name.  I can't say they made all of their parts in house but they liked to give that impression.


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## bikemonkey (Nov 28, 2022)

This is a Scheuer "Aristocrat" kid's bike I cleaned up a few years ago (disregard the Schwinn saddle)  - it has the same chainwheel as OP's. This is a note I made in the customer's digital album, "Designed and marketed by American entrepreneur William Scheuer, this model bicycle was constructed in W. Germany and imported into the USA during the 1960's for the growing American trade."

No markings on the crankset but included is a pic during the cleaning.


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## Sportyworty (Nov 28, 2022)

Here is a non lug frame President. The branding has no bearing on features but you guys already knew that !
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304719250978?campid=5335809022


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## juvela (Nov 28, 2022)

Sportyworty said:


> Here is a non lug frame President. The branding has no bearing on features but you guys already knew that !
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/304719250978?campid=5335809022




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chainset of machine in listing is Thun/Thompson type

the spindle is permanently affixed to the drive side crank arm

in this design the bottom bracket threads are not employed, although they are likely to be present

it has been established in other forum threads that German produced cycles done for Scheuer were done by Bauer

the Bert Scheuer Co. launched 1931

here is a photo of a Thompson type chainset where both sides are cottered; posted to illustrate bottom bracket assembly:





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## Sportyworty (Nov 28, 2022)

Great detail.
The one on my machine   (as you like to say) was troublesome. The memories are a bit foggy but this one not so much.
I like the rules here regarding not deleting prices and pics as they serve a historical purpose. This is opposite of rare muscle car forums where the good stuff is kept secret often times from public convo. Perhaps this thread will eventually be a “catch all” for European Muscle Bikes from this small era.
I am excited about finding a frame. Next stop is Europe itself. The collective knowledge and willingness to give time to others on The Cabe is impressive. I’m going to hang around. I have the mini road bike to figure out and my Grandfather passed away in 1949 and I have pics of 2 of his bikes to share soon. These were in Victoria as well so could be obscure too.


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## juvela (Nov 29, 2022)

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Kerry,

note regarding frame head on your cycle's frame -

as you look at examples of "muscle"/Stingray type bicycles you will notice that most of their frames are constructed with either lugless ("welded" in Brit terminology) or bulge-formed heads, as with the CCM models posted earlier in the discussion

for readers unfamiliar with bulge-forming here is the web site of the company which has produced millions of frame heads on cycles imported into North America from Japan






						Nikko Sangyo Co.,Ltd.
					

Nikko Sangyo Co.,Ltd.



					www.nikko-bulgeform.co.jp
				




the apparent head lugs of your steed are a helpful clue toward narrowing down the possible suspects

am open to the possibility that it may have been manufactured by Steyr but can see nothing conclusive in the details visible in the images provided

here is a closeup view of the head of a Steyr produced cycle done for the Sears & Roebuck company to illustrated the sort of lugs used





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## Sportyworty (Nov 29, 2022)

Excellent pic and beautiful lines. I can now see the lines better on previous bikes we discussed. The Puch on the previous page while ornate is different than the above example. The Raleigh example is lugged but not as ornate and their symmetrical  pattern is consistent to their brand. Lastly my machine’s head now appears very much like your newly provided example. I’m going to hold out for the right frame. I can shuffle through prospects much better, starting now. The hunt in retrospect is often the fondest part of the find.
thanks so much


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## Sportyworty (Nov 29, 2022)

Sears was Simpson Sears in Canada at that time. Helps with searching the era


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## Andrew Gorman (Nov 29, 2022)

A good forum for German bikes is at:


			altesrad.net - Foren-Übersicht
		

They are always interested in the swoopy styled export bikes.  Domestic market German muscle bikes were called "bonanzarad" and there are some forums devoted to them out there, but I don't know where.








						Bonanzarad – Wikipedia
					






					de.wikipedia.org
				




And for what it's worth, a translation site called DeepL does a much better job of machine translation than google translate!


			https://www.deepl.com/translator


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## juvela (Nov 29, 2022)

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Hello again Kerry,

wrt your local B.C. cycle importer/distributors -

you mentioned BRC above

this is the marque of Boyes & Rosser located in Richmond

at least some of their product was produced in Japan by Maruishi

another local name is that of Deelite & its cousin Apollo

these badges come from the firm of Fred Deeley Cycles Ltd. of Vancouver

this firm launched in 1914 offering motorcycles

in the late 1960's they began doing bicycles which were produced in Japan by Kuwahara

then there is Norco with their subsidiary badge Fiori

most products from this importer were done in Japan by MIKI and by Yamaguchi although other vendors were employed as well...

---

side note on Thompson type chainsets -

as you have likely sussed by now there are several varieties of these

one not as yet mentioned is the type where the spindle is permanently affixed to the drive side arm and non-drive side arm mounts with a combination of splines & a pinchbolt

the chainset on your bicycle "appears" it may have a cotter on the drive side but it is difficult to be sure...













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## Sportyworty (Nov 29, 2022)

Andrew this is very good intel. I have made a good friend in Germany through a car restoration. We have emailed one another almost daily for 10 yrs. He does everything with online translation. We have navigated extremely detailed sub assemblies etc. We have a shipper exporter for parts based in NY as well. Point being connects are available here if comes to that. I look forward to checking this new lead out. thank you.
Hello mister juvela,
I am glad to keep you engaged as you are accelerating my needed bike 101 and it’s appreciated. There are far more interesting species out there to pontificate. 
We have a positive ID on my drive side cotter. I came here with some confidence the bike was in fact a BRC head badged  piece. It was an older bike by at least 5 years by 1976. I read by a former employee  that some BRC were Korean and perhaps a connect to Kia. The missing head badge makes it tough but it did help my memory. The ornate lines came around to the front of the head as an outline to a actual badge not decal. Not sure why I am remembering this but perhaps had seen what my bike was at that time on other kids.
Once again new search directions provided by Cabers ! back to the quarry


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## Sportyworty (Nov 29, 2022)

I am unsure the year of this BRC road bike but possibly in the era of interest. BRC did offer an ornate lugged head at one point. If the parent manufacturer of road bike also had a Stingray type offering it could be a contender. This head looks the part juvela?








						Vintage BRC 30" Yellow Road Bicycle - B | #3896949392
					

Vintage BRC 30  Yellow Bicycle.This is a vintage/antique/used item(s) and should be expected in used condition with some wear commensurate with age unless otherwise stated. Please see all pictures bef




					www.worthpoint.com


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## juvela (Nov 29, 2022)

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Good afternoon Kerry,

Unable to tell very much from the Worthpoint linque...

page loaded balkily for me; may be a browser issue at my end

lugs on yeller feller look like they may issue from Takahashi Press

one avenue of inquiry you might wish to explore would be to search if there are any back Boyes & Rosson catalogues posted online

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## Sportyworty (Nov 29, 2022)

I think the BRC link on Worth is good. It’s a great example but will not let me save individual pics. Trying again 








						Vintage BRC 30" Yellow Road Bicycle - B | #3896949392
					

Vintage BRC 30  Yellow Bicycle.This is a vintage/antique/used item(s) and should be expected in used condition with some wear commensurate with age unless otherwise stated. Please see all pictures bef




					www.worthpoint.com
				



Ornate Deeley Head

__
		https://flic.kr/p/hVGRrq


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## juvela (Nov 29, 2022)

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soytainleigh luuks urley sebentees...


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## Sportyworty (Nov 30, 2022)

So the Deeley dealio was a fun rabbit hole. It would be great to have that historic affiliation. Now that we are dialing in regional brands with my bikes features it leans towards being just that. BRC and Deeley offerings seem to be turning up great results. There are several discussions of bikeforums.net but it will not allow me to view pics and the text is strange. I may need to join in order to review the archived convos. They reference the subject as Deeley Apollos.
i recently relocated from So Cal relatively close to Victoria but state side. It was an enjoyable 33 year adventure but also glad to be “home” again. I can turn Vancouver and Victoria upside down scouting for my youth.

Slick 26” Triumph Rodeo sold by Deeley









						Late 1960's bicycle - bicycles - by owner
					

Late 60's Triumph Rodeo by Raleigh England. Coaster brake.All original except tires, front fender and saddle. Pretty cool piece.Sold by Fred Deeley Cycles of Vancouver



					vancouver.craigslist.org
				




Deeley road bike of the vintage?









						1980’s Centurion Delite Fred Deeley Cycles Ltd 10-Speed - bicycles -...
					

Vintage 10-Speed, 25” frame, 27” wheels, vintage Dia-Compe and Suntour components. Original. The company is the origins of Trev Deeley Harley Davidson Motorcycles of Vancouver. A piece of history....



					whistler.craigslist.org
				





The Purple Deelite Hustler. click on contact seller for a great run down on Deeley.









						Vintage Deelite Hustler Kids 14
					

Bicycle for sale, Vintage Trev Deeley Deelite Hustler Kids 14Banana Seat Bike, Unrestored.  14 h. CanadianListed.com has classifieds in Vancouver, British Columbia for new and used bicycles.




					vancouver.canadianlisted.com
				




The Orange Deelite Hustler









						FRED DEELEY DEELITE HUSTLER ORANGE BICYCLE - Able Auctions
					

FRED DEELEY DEELITE HUSTLER ORANGE BICYCLE - Able Auctions




					bid.ableauctions.ca
				




The Purple Hustler and this Raleigh look to have my bars prior to installing the Black BMX ones.


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## juvela (Nov 30, 2022)

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Have had a 19" red Deelite road frame the same as your orange and green examples hanging in me racks for about forty yar.   It looks to date from ~1971.

Centurion is a badge created by a distributor located in Los Angeles.  The subject cycle shown in the listing is the base model road termed Le Mans.  If one were to peel away the Deelite transfer on the top tube they might discover the Le Mans transfer beneath it.  Appears to date from near to 1971.

Information found on Boyes & Rosser suggests that many/most of their products were manufactured by Maruishi so you might want to look online to see if you can find any back catalogues from this maker.  Most of their product which reached North America was private labelled rather than self badged.

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						CRUISER, A Canada Trademark of BOYES & ROSSER LTD.,. Application Number: 680912 :: Trademark Elite Trademarks
					

CRUISER is a canadian trademark and brand of BOYES & ROSSER LTD.,, RICHMOND,,BRITISH COLUMBIA V6X2T3,CANADA. This trademark was filed to the Canadian Intellectual Property Office on Friday, April 26, 1991. The CRUISER is under the trademark classification: Vehicles; Locomotion Product by Land...




					www.trademarkelite.com
				









						Any older guys remember BRC bikes? - Bike Forums
					

Mountain Biking - Any older guys remember BRC bikes? - After a few too many years off, I pulled my old bike down from the garage rafters and blew the cobwebs off. I gave it a little tune up, and it's back on the road. I bought the bike about 15 years ago, and I've put tons of miles on it through...



					www.bikeforums.net
				








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## Sportyworty (Dec 1, 2022)

Is there a shared relationship of common designs? In other words can an identical design lug frame be found from Japanese and German manufacturers or are they different lugged designs. Can a Puch with Stumey Archer components share the same frame design as a Kuwahara with Shimano 333. Seems like a dumb question perhaps but the cross over between frame designs and components makes the search perhaps larger than needed.

My bike had a Shimano 333 coaster hub and it was part of the cool factor. Perhaps not merited since I have no fail report on hubs but as kids we looked at bikes for this marque on other kids bikes. The European offerings have stumey archer. The Japanese have Shimano. Is this correct ? Is there a time line for the Shimano 333 Type A Coaster? I still think they they look coolio

If I could draw a frame from either European origin or Japanese it would open up the possibilities. If my bike is a 68-72 vintage and Japanese origin it will be importer branded. If it’s European it could be either factory branded or importer branded.

I’m finding every combo of features but not all together at once. The Frame Lugging combined with straighter than most lower double tubes is scarce thus far. I can dress the desired frame with Shimano.

Bikes that I would like to see more examples of include:

BRC Jaguar

Deeley Hustler

Raleigh Mountie

Stelber Indie

Royce Union Sport Hi-Riser

On a different note… admiring bikes and reading stories from Cabers is captivating. I literally avoided bikes knowing I would fall hard. Its always been in the works. There are several avenues I intend to explore but will keep my powder dry until this little time piece is back in the fold ha. Back to the quarry


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## juvela (Dec 1, 2022)

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regarding frame construction materials across national borders

in general, a frame produced in Japan will use only materials from that nation

in general, European constructed bicycles do not usually employ any asian frame materials, Belgium is one striking exception to this general rule

within Europe there is a great deal of cross border use of frame construction materials

with respect to 3-speed hubs it is fairly common to find non-Japan cycles which employ the Shimano 3-speed

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## Sportyworty (Dec 1, 2022)

Good morning @juvela notes taken Ty 

Here we have the lugged Executive vs the non lugged President with matching components. Both appear to have the straighter than stingray double lower cross tube I’m smitten with !


			https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/vintage-60s-70s-executive-bicycle-90-c-00e4f6b934
		


https://www.ebay.com/itm/304719250978?campid=5335809022


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## juvela (Dec 1, 2022)

Sportyworty said:


> Good morning @juvela notes taken Ty
> 
> Here we have the lugged Executive vs the non lugged President with matching components. Both appear to have the straighter than stingray double lower cross tube I’m smitten with !
> 
> ...





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note that both machines exhibit Thun type chainsets and stamped aluminum sheet fork crown caps

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me last visitation to your town was on twenty september Anno Domini MMI

one thing recalled was a blue birdbath in the front yard of a gift shoppe

it was so beautifully made wondered if ceramic or metal - had a majolica look

a very nice shopkeeper saw me and stepped out to explain who and how it was made

was staying with some friends in Langley

---

Vancouver Island -

me parents honeymooned there in august of Anno Domini MCMXXXVI at Ladysmith

[and yes they had automobiles with 'lectric startin' back then...]


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## ADKBIKES (Dec 1, 2022)

I have this frame that looks close , could be a good starting point for a replica


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## Sportyworty (Dec 1, 2022)

I appreciate that you would take the time to follow and offer me this frame. The lower bars look very good. The top bar bend is exaggerated closer to the seat post on yours and mine is mid point or even closer to head before the kick up. My intent is to recreate the exact bike based on the blurry pics and memories. I have the time and it’s only my second week on the job


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## Sportyworty (Dec 1, 2022)

juvela my birth place is Victoria 65 vintage. The city is whimsical charming mysterious and acts older than it really is imho. I had to leave in 77. Growing up on bikes in Victoria in the 70s are some of my fondest memories. I had finally worked my way up from a walking basket to front bike rack to a news paper stand outside the old McGill and Orme Pharmacy. It was a cash cow on the weekends. I would play in the arcade until I figured it was time to go get more papers. We would decorate our bikes for the Victoria Day parade and try to get on the evening news ha. One year i rode beside the wax Queen Victoria on her carriage and made the grade. Victoria has become much busier but it was and still is a bike city. I’m in Tulip town La Conner. 33 miles as the crow flies from downtown Victoria.


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## juvela (Dec 1, 2022)

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La Conner was what was writing of in reference to the blue birdbath.

Oak Harbor was about as far N as ventured in me last visit to Whidbey.



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## Sportyworty (Dec 3, 2022)

Good day juvela,  I have a hunch where that fountain is.
The surroundings are still fresh and new so will need to verify.
Ok I believe the mystery has been solved on my childhood Klunker ID. However still searching for the replacement.
After researching Sears Roebuck and eliminating the 1970’s line of Spyders and Spirit bikes it became apparent that the 60s offerings were lugged bikes. I was unable to locate a “stingray” style but the 3 speed bikes had the same lugging and head as the Puch muscle bike which in turn was the same as the Executive.
Here are the Puch Sears bikes that helped identify the lugging and and head style.









						Fully Restored, Antique, Sears-Roebuck Free Spirit Bicycle | #4548889189
					

Fully Restored, Antique, Sears-Roebuck Free Spirit Bicycle. This ten speed Austrian cruiser, made by Sears in the mid 60's, was a must-have for the growing suburban family. Today, although very common




					www.worthpoint.com
				












						VINTAGE SEARS AUSTRIAN MADE 3 SPEED MENS BICYCLE & RACK | #74789632
					

UP FOR BID IS A VINTAGE SEARS LITE WEIGHT AUSTRIAN MADE 3-SPEED MENS BICYCLE WITH BOOK RACK. FROM THE STYLING CUES IT LOOKS TO BE MADE MADE IN THE EARLY TO MID 1960'S.BEING ELDERLY DRIVEN AND HAVING O




					www.worthpoint.com
				












						68 Sears 3 Speed Bicycle Austria Space Age Logo Orig. | #42603838
					

This is a very nice original Sears Roebuck 3 Speed Bicycle made in Austria. The Sears 3 speed hub is dated 1968. Sears Hub Model - 503.21 Made in Austria. The hub shifts very nicely. Nice original Sea




					www.worthpoint.com
				












						Vintage Sears Bicycle | #4178742602
					

Vintage Sears and Roebuck Co. bicycle made in Austria




					www.worthpoint.com
				




These tin fork caps appear correct








						1960s Green Sears Austrian Built Fork 5.5" Steer Tube 27 Inch Wheel 5 Speed | #3932991866
					

Description1960s Sears Green Fork 27  WheelsIn good conditionSee PicsOur Vibe and and Our GuaranteeAt Whistle Bikes we are always looking for great merchandise to bring back into circulation. We belie




					www.worthpoint.com
				




I am relatively convinced this 1971 Puch branded muscle bike





						Puch Muscle Bike - Bike Forums
					

Classic & Vintage - Puch Muscle Bike - I had one of these when I was a kid, my parents sold it when I was a late teenager without telling me. I've never seen another in the flesh, and struggled to find a picture of exactly this even online, so you can imagine my surprise when I found one on eBay...



					www.bikeforums.net
				




and this 1971 Executive branded muscle bike are in fact of my bikes origin.


			https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/vintage-60s-70s-executive-bicycle-90-c-00e4f6b934
		


It appears the Steyr line was non lug and Puch line was lug. I have seen many of the Steyr non lug rebranded to Royce Union, Iverson and several others.

In conclusion these 2 bikes appear to be the same as my original machine.
The Shimano 333 hub was added by me or it was a wish not yet realized. It’s been 45 years and I have been as honest with myself about the details as possible.

I am always open to critique or comment if anyone has anything to add or question. My eyes are burnt out of my head from looking at bikes. Thanks for the messages and allowing me to throw all these reference links up on your site. I am enjoying several sections of this forum and will be showing up hopefully on other threads now that this one is coming to a conclusion. I look forward to future posts on European muscle bikes being added to this thread. If anyone has a lead on a bike or frame it will be rewarded and very much appreciated. As a new Caber (lil knee scuffed)  I tried to share the search in hope it may help others in the future rather than glean and go

Today I’m off to pick up a 88 Panasonic Mountain Cat because my Nishiki Colorado is getting gifted. My wife still has here 88 Rock Hopper Comp so we do ride a little bit but up to Caber snuff yet ! I’m going make commuter/cruisers out of the non suspension Mountain Bikes.
thanks for the space Cabers
Kerry


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## juvela (Dec 3, 2022)

-----

G'Day Kerry,

Looks like you have been giving ye olde deerstalker chapeau a good bit o' exercise.

Unclear to me if you yet think your machine a BRC branded cycle which was manufactured in Graz or if you now think it must have been a Simpsons which was constructed there.  Have never heard of any Graz built cycles done for BRC.

The purple Scheuer you found is the first have heard tell of to be made by Steyr.  Had thought their euro-source products limited to German made cycles done by Bauer and Dutch ones done by Batavus.

Note that the Scheuer examples you have cited all appear to exhibit Thompson type chainsets while your childhood machine appears to have a cottered drive side crank arm.

One simple check you can make when doing an in person exam is to check the diameter of the frame's steerer.  A Steyr product will have one of 26.0mm diameter and no other makers employ this size.

Styria/Steyr/Puch & Austro-Daimler all emanate from a single source.

Happy explorin'!


-----


----------



## Sportyworty (Dec 3, 2022)

Hello juvela,
Your review makes apparent that I have not come up with an exact match yet. I am happy to satisfy the frame shape to include lugging and ornate head. Now are these examples exact to my frame ? Unsure but odds are very good. The Puch and Executive do not have the same cotter drive side arm like my bike but rather the Thompson type. I am yet to source a banana seat style bike with frame features AND the crank arm and chain set of my bike as you have noted juvela 
I am thinking that Sears brought in a lot of this manufacturers bikes and even though Sears does not seem to have carried the European banana seat bikes some stores did like Canadian tire with the Executive. So my unclear answer is yes still believe BRC may have the complete package in the form of their boys Jaguar but I have yet to see one like the Executive and Puch for a frame design comparison. Here are a couple of bikes if interest.. a Deeley cruiser and BRC example but again we have a larger? Cruiser bike frame and girls Jaguar banana seat. I need a little dialing in me thinks ha. Feel free
If it’s a scratch build I’ll just need the frame and then can source the cottered drive side crank chain system. It would be nice to find the exact whole bike no doubt !

Triumph/Raleigh sold by Deeley https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/bik/7561074499.html

BRC boys banana seat no lug








						Boyes & Rosser Cycles 60-70's ? Jaguar 5 speed                065
					






					thecabe.com
				




BRC girls banana seat with lug


			https://www.liveauctionworld.com/BRC-JAGUAR-BIKE_i3149036
		


The upright cruiser type  3 speed bikes for Sears Roebuck and BRC seem to be lugged consistently. If there was a boys version of this lug frame Gold girls BRC banana seat bike it would be the same as my bike by process of elimination ? Make sense or not so much ha

This Gold BRC cruiser is likely to be the same manufacturer as the above girls banana seat bike. These look like the Sears Roebuck to me ?


----------



## Sportyworty (Dec 8, 2022)

It appears that some of the BRC are Raleigh bikes based on some matches on the head lugging. The girls Jaguar above is an example. The boys Jaguar example I have in the same color is Stelber type non lug head. The Japanese connection seems to be after 1972.
This Hercules banana seat bike made by Raleigh has the tin fork caps as opposed to the eye hole style on the Rodeos.
The lugging on my bike and in particular the head appears more like the Raleigh than the Steyr Daimler Puch types now.
Here is another candidate. Terrible pics but the frame and head should be lugged like the other Raleigh and made by Raleigh bikes 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/154316186398?campid=5335809022


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## Sportyworty (Dec 8, 2022)

And back to the drawing board based on the curved lower double tubes.  I was willing to pay waaaay too much for that Hercules.


----------



## juvela (Dec 8, 2022)

-----

shape of fork crown and fork crown cap on your cycle pretty much eliminates any Raleigh Industries origin, regardless of how badged



-----


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## Sportyworty (Dec 8, 2022)

Good afternoon juvela,
Thanks so much on the redirect and weigh in. 
The Raleigh’s were popular on the island. You have repeatedly indicated the answer to search is the head and it’s unique ornate lugging. I was unable to find any Raleigh, BCR or CCM bikes with my machines frame shape. I continue to read about Steyr and your many contributions to Cabe archives on the subject. I researched the Japanese connection as you suggested. If Sears had a late 60’s boys cruiser sourced from their Steyr line it would be a candidate. The Spyder and Spirit line are non lugged. I’m going to look into Eatons and possibly the Hudson’s Bay to see if they had a line of Steyr/Puch/Daimler Banana seat or cruiser bicycles. I ruled out the Canadian Tire bikes after looking at all the catalogues. The Executive sold at Belkin in the USA and the Puch badged banana seat bikes remain the only likely candidates to date.
This thread is serving as scratch notes as I plunder the internet ha


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## Sportyworty (Dec 8, 2022)

It appears that not all of the Steyr and Puch offerings were lugged late 60-early 70’s. This bike appears to be the frame design as my machine and previous posted Purple Executive and Green Puch with Thompson Cranks.








						Puch Mini Sprint Highriser Rahmen, € 120,- (3441 Judenau) - willhaben
					

Puch Mini Sprint Highriser Rahmen. 10.869.015 Angebote. Günstig kaufen und gratis inserieren auf willhaben - der größte Marktplatz Österreichs.




					www.willhaben.at
				









						Cruiser - Fahrräder | willhaben
					

289 Angebote in Cruiser - Fahrräder. Günstig kaufen und gratis inserieren auf willhaben - der größte Marktplatz Österreichs.




					www.willhaben.at
				




Green Puch with lugged frame






						Puch Muscle Bike - Bike Forums
					

Classic & Vintage - Puch Muscle Bike - I had one of these when I was a kid, my parents sold it when I was a late teenager without telling me. I've never seen another in the flesh, and struggled to find a picture of exactly this even online, so you can imagine my surprise when I found one on eBay...



					www.bikeforums.net


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## juvela (Dec 8, 2022)

-----

by the early 1970's there were a number of Sears Steyr models which were lugless

adult three-speed, five-speed and tenspeed models

have not checked to see how far back lugless Steyr produced Sears bikes may go

have no experience with the juvenile models



-----


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## Sportyworty (Dec 8, 2022)

I am finding Puch and Steyr Highrisers lugged and no lugged. 
Locating a bike or frame is going to be challenging


----------



## juvela (Dec 8, 2022)

-----

bottom bracket assembly on gold example appears normal three-piece, non-Thun

brakes are Altenburger

verdurous machine appears some years later


-----


----------



## Sportyworty (Dec 8, 2022)

juvela perhaps the Purple Executive example is not Steyr. I am reading Executive is W German. Any insight by chance? I am seeing them lug and non lug as well.
I would like to know more about this steed. It’s my closest find to date


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## Sportyworty (Dec 8, 2022)

President is Scheuer company perhaps after all. It had been referenced as Steyr online in several places.
The stem on this Black Bauer bike looks like mine.









						Scheuer President 26" | Wanted: Bikes, Trikes, Parts, Accessories, Etc.
					

I'm trying to locate a 26" Scheuer President in any condition for a friend.   His dad received one as a Christmas present in 1959 and we'd like to find one and restore (unless we can get our hands on a nice original, then we'd just leave as-is) it for him as a surprise.  If you have one...




					thecabe.com
				







This is very interesting









						Help! Information needed on this German Bauer | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




					thecabe.com


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## juvela (Dec 8, 2022)

-----

in case it was not clear to you the Bert Scheuer Co. was an importer of cycles rather than a manufacturer

marques such as Executive, President & The Londoner were their property

as one walks through the decades from the firm's 1931 launch going forward it is possible to find examples manufactured by an assortment of companies in several different lands


-----


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## Sportyworty (Dec 8, 2022)

It was not clear thank you


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## Sportyworty (Dec 8, 2022)

Same stands for Stelber. Several branded bikes and some with lugs but bulged heads.


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## Sportyworty (Dec 9, 2022)

I found this bike while searching for “German Banana Seat Bike”
No mention of brand.
The bike has a nice ornate head and is in the same geographical location as my bike.









						Vintage Brentwood Banana Bicycle
					

Excellent vintage condition  Brentwood bicycle  Girls frame Hard to find these vintage banana bikes * needs new rear tube*




					www.usedvictoria.com


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## Sportyworty (Dec 9, 2022)

I hand drew what appears to be the shape of my head lugging pattern and this bike matches up.
Mr. juvela if you see this your opinion is desired and if you could ID it would be amazing !


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## juvela (Dec 9, 2022)

-----

not eno' rez in images to write with confidence

head of subject machine "appears" to be bulge-formed

note how thick are the sockets for the top and down tubes vs "those" for the "head tube"

cycle "appears" to be of asian manufacture

if asian with a bulge-formed head then head will be a Nikko Sangyo product as previously mentioned


-----


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## Sportyworty (Dec 10, 2022)

I am going to put together a Victoria bike scrounging trip here. Time to return to the scene of the crime for clues.
Also will contact the Brentwood bike shop that sold the above girls bike to see if they have a note on the branding. If not the pics should toggle the memory. 
You are an immense help to me juvela and it’s very much appreciated. 
The bikes out there and I’m willing to offer Stingray money for a frame or complete bike.


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## juvela (Dec 10, 2022)

-----

Which Brentwood was it which sold the bike?

BC, WA, CA, other?

There be lots o' 'em.   😉

---

One thing you could do whilst in Victoria would be to look up the address for the Ace Bicycle Shop to see what is in that location today - probably something such as a nail salon!   😱 

Maybe you could grab an image...


-----


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## Sportyworty (Dec 10, 2022)

Brentwood is a bike my error juvela









						How do I know the value of my bike? | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

Hello!  I have a 1969 Mod Rod. Made by Brentwood in Japan. She is in excellent shape and have had some offers on it.   What I'd like to know is who is the trusted source to value this bike. She is in mint condition, no rust, all original parts. I last licenced her in 1972 as per the photo...




					thecabe.com
				




Will snap a pic of the original Ace location and I owe you a fountain snap as well. That one does not ring a bell but some that do are Russ Hayes and Robinsons Sporting Goods, and Macs. The Hudson’s Bay line of bikes have lugged road frames but yet to see a banana seat style Baycrest.
Some of the less common retails were Eatons, Woolco and Zellers.


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## juvela (Dec 14, 2022)

-----

Eaton's -

in case you would like to explore the velos sold under this name through the decades there have been a good number of discussion threads on them over at bf -






						Bike Forums
					

BikeForums is the leading online discussion site for avid cyclists.



					www.bikeforums.net
				





---

La Conner -

recall store being on N side of an E-W street with a small yard in front

seems like it was just W of a main N-S street in the downtown (to the extent La Conner can be said to have a "downtown"  😉 ) - cannot recall if Maple or Reservation

---

Victoria -

looks like me aged "braine" played one of its frequent tricks and The Ace is located in 'couver rather than Victoria. 🤨 






						Ace Cycles • Vancouver Heritage Foundation
					






					placesthatmatter.ca
				





-----


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## Sportyworty (Dec 14, 2022)

we have a stand in Fountain only
with the coordinates a Blue one of a unique material may still be found juvela

My great aunt worked at Eatons In the early 70’s. My Grandma ( her sister) used to take me there occasionally to visit and have a treat at the cafe on the top floor. The Velo mark will be helpful. It’s amazing what a line or model can add to an internet search. 

talked the owner of Vibe bikes in Nanaimo about bike. He said it had been about 8 yrs since he had seen a frame like mine and that guys want them. The first part is believable, the second part is suspect ha


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## Sportyworty (Dec 24, 2022)

The Eatons lead is a good one. The Road King manufactured in Hungary by Csepel.
I have not located an exact example but have found lug frame bikes with tin fork crowns and 3 piece cranks.





						Vintage CCM | forum | Urgent! What Do Banana Seat Bikes Go For?
					






					www.vintageccm.com
				




The Steyr/Daimler/Puch search had also yielded some results. I have my friend checking in Germany to see if anything pops up. I suspect the museum in Graz may have an example. There is mention here where the lug construction ended by 1970 and perhaps the Puch branded bikes were lower line than the Daimler and Steyr line.








						Steyr-Daimler-Puch Highriser - HIGHRISER
					

Steyr-Daimler-Puch Highriser - Alles über Highriser, Bonanzarad aus den 60s - 70s. Informationen, Fotos, Berichte, Bilder von Ausfahrten und Events.




					highriser.at
				




The last tidbit of interesting search material I came across was the Czechoslovakian produced banana seat bike Velamos Rapido deluxe. The bars are not the same shape but they were sold in Canada and had lug construction with ornate head stocks and 3 piece crank sets. I am curious if different years and models could have had different frame shapes. 
Hopefully in the new year a promising lead will come from this search and allow me to build the bike again as it was.


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## Sportyworty (Dec 25, 2022)

I am feeling pretty good about this one. It’s got a cool vibe as it rolls too ! Think mine did as well. My bike was Gold as well before the Rembrandt rattle can paint job.
@juvela would recognize these better pics and hope will also see this update. The bike is for sale and I can only hope the seller will ship or can find some help close to Archbold Ohio


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## juvela (Dec 27, 2022)

-----

definitely european; either Deutschland or Nederland

likely either Bauer or Batavus

cyclometer appears it may be1960's era Huret

Thun type chainset

true three-piece head

pedals likely to be either Union Frondenberg or WECO

rear hub likely Torpedo

threading of steerer and bottom bracket shell BSC

looks like you are continuing to enjoy lots of good pfun  😉


-----


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## Sportyworty (Dec 27, 2022)

@juvela in your personal opinion is this Gold bike different in some ways than my bike. Its unfortunate that the old photos are poor quality/condition.  Just a hunch is better than mine admittedly


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## juvela (Dec 29, 2022)

-----

gold example certainly looks a good candidate
can see nothing on it which would rule it out

its frame is fully lugged

not enough detail in images of your two-wheeler to tell if its frame was fully lugged as well

[not unusual for  european manufacturers to build frames which have true lugged heads paired with lugless seat and bottom bracket junctions]

good possibility front hub is from Union Frondenberg
barrel may be marked with a U or the full Union name

at first glance thought cyclometer Huret but but its drive unit looks more like a Stewart Warner

here is a May 1965 advert showing a Huret cyclometer of the day -





Huret cyclometer catalogue pages of 1966 -











quality points for gold cycle -

a) fully lugged frame including true three-piece head

b) forged stem rather than stamped

Union front hub marked with Union shield logo -





gold cycle's Thun pattern chainset is the type where left crank arm mounts with a wedgebolt

-----


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## Sportyworty (Dec 29, 2022)

Ah @juvela with a complete component breakdown. I can tell you this, all the posts in this thread have been re read and used as source for my searches. It takes time to put pen to paper our most precious commodity and it’s appreciated very much.
I can bring a couple of items into clearer view. The Speedo is a Capri 20. I can see the racing flags.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/265898231786?campid=5335809022
 The front fender Wynn racing sticker and suspect small seat conversion from a previous banana seat and bar config is reminiscent of my machines conversion in 1975.  It is kids department store brand BMX conversion in the early to mid 70’s out of a mid to late 60’s bicycle. The speedo was great for gauging the speed of a jump. The term in the muscle car world is the piece has been day 2‘d. In other words it has period correct  aftermarket parts ha !
Anyway back to the more important nuts and bolts. The Chain Guard and fenders are the same on these Executive bikes. We have:
The non lugged in Gold.
The lugged in Purple.
The current bike of discussion in Gold fully lugged, with cove shapes and very ornate head.
I highly suspect the rotted chain guard says executive based on the location of the faint outline of a decal. Perhaps lining them up here will show other details and differences to the eagle eyes. I’m giving it a heck of a go here and hope to at least figure out what branding and components and region to look for and get a bike in the new year.


----------



## juvela (Dec 30, 2022)

-----

Capri is a marketing name for bicycle accessories

in this case it is a rebadging (private labelling) of Stewart Warner products

---

if you should purchase gold bicycle will be interested to see crown

it may be a large rough looking sandcast fellow with socket walls for the blades in the vicinity of five or six mm thick

---

forgot to mention earlier -

wheel rims may be Marcel Schurmann


-----


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## Sportyworty (Dec 30, 2022)

Good morning @juvela, 
Gold bike owner is not going to work with me zero chance at this point. Strange ordeal. Couldn’t even buy my way.
Searching for more Executive badged bikes and came across this very good example of a girls non lug example. The photos are the best yet. I am curious if the lug construction stopped and we are simply witnessing a running production change related to time. That fact is mentioned regarding the Steyr/Puch in one of the Bonanzarad articles. Some of the Executive labels say made in Portugal, others W.Germany.





						Vintage Executive Bicycle | EBTH
					

A vintage Executive girl’s purple bicycle. The bike has a metal tube frame in a purple tone with a floral print banana seat, large handlebar basket, and left handlebar brakes. from EBTH.com




					www.ebth.com


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## juvela (Dec 30, 2022)

-----

the bulge-formed head tube on the purple distaffer is something commonly seen on folders (_depliants_) where the head tube is oversize in the middle and necks down at the ends to accommodate standard head fittings

do not recall seeing it previously on a muscle velo...








here is a similar head tube on an Graziella folder as manufactured by the Teodoro Carnielli company -









---

unable to suggest specific Lusitanian maker for contract builds

the list of cycle manufacturers in that land is a loooong one

here is a partial alphabetical list






						Bike Forums - View Single Post -  Newbie Portugal
					

Post 21735457 - BikeForums is the leading online discussion site for avid cyclists.



					www.bikeforums.net
				





-----


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## Sportyworty (Jan 1, 2023)

Here is another example. This one has great detail of the head. They are scarce but do exist out there. The Eaton Roadking was using this frame for a short time based on another complete bike pic found online. I am curious if this is the design you thought we would see @juvela

https://ratrodbikes.com/threads/what-is-it.113533/#post-1172707


----------



## juvela (Jan 1, 2023)

-----

thanks for the good image

this lug pattern looks like it would be a BOCAMA product

let me check...

(subsequently) closest match found is BOCAMA pattern 30/I





some of the posts in the discussion cited are sad/comical due to poster ignorance/misguided assumptions

evidently numerous readers unfamiliar with Thompson/Thun type chainsets...

---

head lugs on gold cycle located in Ohio bear a family resemblance but ar not a match

they may be a BOCAMA pattern not shown in me materials...





---

Czech products mentioned a few pages back:

forgot to reply to this post

the badges Favorit, Jawa, Pioneer, Rapido & Velamos issue from a factory located in Rokycany

the export group for these, along with some other non-bicycle products, for the era under discussion, was an entity called Motokov Praha

"in general" the Favorit badge is primarily seen for sports bicycles, the Jawa and Rapido badges primarily seen for practical adult transportation machines (one-speed coaster, three-speed planetary (IGH) & five-speed derailleur) and the Pioneer badge for juvenile models; although there is a good deal of badge crossover.  the U.S. agent for these products at the time of your machine was called American Jawa.  there was separate distribution for the Canada market.

this forum had a thread on a Pioneer last January -









						Any idea what bicycle this is? | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

I found this bike in my backyard buried under leaves. I was curious what it was. I tried to ID it with the serial number and frame badge ,but no luck. I’m way more familiar with vintage motorcycles than bicycles. Thanks!




					thecabe.com
				




-----


----------



## Sportyworty (Jan 2, 2023)

Lots of good stuff to explore here @juvela thanks for remaining engaged.  I am already imagining polishing the lugs so they stand out ! We have made progress and these are unique little bikes. 
Here is a later non lug Roadking from Eatons. The non lug frames retain the basic profile of the earlier lug version. It appears that I am seeking a late 60s Roadking sold in Canada or an Executive sold at Belk in the US. Also other branding like Pioneer sold by … yet to be determined. 





						Road King banana bike
					

Got home from bartending late last night (actually 6am lol) and did a little CL browsing and came across this little late 70's? banana bike. From what I can tell it is an Eaton's store brand bicycle, but couldn't find out much more. In my neighbourhood when a musclebike is listed they are always...




					ratrodbikes.com


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## juvela (Jan 2, 2023)

-----

wroseate wroad king appeareth clearly non-occidental

octagonal headset adjustable race is one only infrequently encountered

fork crown cap may cover two rectangular vent holds in fork crown top; possible fork may be an "off-the-shelf" item from someone such as Akisu


-----


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## Sportyworty (Jan 2, 2023)

The owner of the Yellow bike here is going to work with me. It appears that finally a machine is out there with my name on it !
Never would have happened without the Cabe and a special credit and thank you to @juvela 
The bike hails from Central Alberta and likely rolled between there and the closest Eatons.


----------



## GTs58 (Jan 2, 2023)

Glad to hear you're making progress with your project. When I got the idea to recreate my childhood bike it started out with a thud, not a bang. After bidding against someone for the right frame and paying too much for everything, I finally finished it in less than a year. What was funny, I later found out the person I was bidding against was a friend of mine!


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## juvela (Jan 2, 2023)

Sportyworty said:


> The owner of the Yellow bike here is going to work with me. It appears that finally a machine is out there with my name on it !
> Never would have happened without the Cabe and a special credit and thank you to @juvela
> The bike hails from Central Alberta and likely rolled between there and the closest Eatons.
> 
> ...





-----

congratulations

appears there remains the vestige of a head transfer beneath the respray

suggest use of non-acetone nail polish remover to see if there remaineth any legibility...

chain stay bridge is ESGE plate style
appears seat stay bridge may be ESGE plate style as well

expect steerer to be BSC dimension
you can check it for possible markings

possible that chainguard and mudguards pictured are Schiffer-Klut ("SKS") products

original pedals would have been either Union Frondenberg or WECO

shall be interested to see how crown appears with removal of bauxite cap... 

me guess, and it is only a guess at this point, is that perpetrator shall turn out to be Bauer...


-----


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## Sportyworty (Jan 2, 2023)

I will be referencing this thread for some time into the future sorting out the details. Really looking forward to stripping the frame and cleaning the head foil for better recognition. I’ve never taken a bike completely apart but have been wrenching and restoring cars and parts for a few decades now. I’m sure some items while simple to most will be perplexing at times ha.
The search became much more entailed than I could have ever imagined. I’m thankful for the pics I had taken myself in the day. It was fun GTs58 until my thud came. The guy with the Gold bike just went strange and blocked me. I was offering 200 for the 60 dollar bike boxed. He comes back with 100 plus actual freight. Then he says if you want to pay 200 that’s fine but the freight will still be actual cost. So I think about that and said how about we call it 150 then and he says think I’ll pass and blocks me. I always intended to pay freight separate as I have a FedEx account and can provide labels. I was in no way trying to negotiate down. Anyhoo twilight zone moment but I was very disappointed knowing it was going to be a big lift to the next example and even my time was becoming apparent at this point. I actually started using the Duck Duck Go search and it opened up more leads. These bikes were sold in Australia through Woolworths as well. Not the best reputation with the lads down under but mine will be dialed in. The crankset may be interesting but I see there are options.
As stated previously I plan on sticking around and tried not to buy any bikes, parts or projects until my childhood Klunker was located. I did not succeed entirely but did enjoy opening and assembling the 98’ Orange Krate for Christmas. The 75’ Sunset Orange Scrambler from my new friend and first Caber meet frampton for New Years was a fun adventure as well.
Happy New Year to all the Caber Crew


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## Sportyworty (Yesterday at 7:33 PM)

I can see a scrolled letter H or K on the seat  post bar on this Gold bike. Thinking it is either K for Kalkhoff or perhaps Herclues (German) based on researching these brands.
This Green bike was a great find and the accompanying story proves very insightful. The Head detail is great. A bike sold at MacLeods Hardware. Same ownership as the Gambles stores and the Hiawatha connection. This bike was also in Edmonton Alberta which is the same region the Yellow bike here was sourced. I am now confident that the decals on the Yellow bike once the paint is removed will finally solve the retail outlet. The component breakdown  will tell the tale and I hope  @juvela will help me date the frame. Its on its way !






						2 thrift shop finds
					

This one was from the thrift shop in my home town, was definitely a farm bike, I've seen some farm machinery in the area with that same Ninja Turtles green color. The banana seat is in really good shape, it's kinda weird though it has styrofoam underneath it, it looks well formed to it did...




					ratrodbikes.com


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## juvela (Today at 5:36 AM)

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my goodness, it must have taken much searching to find this verdurous cycle!  the three frames certainly do all appear to be the same.

any remaining transfers on the yellow cycle you have coming are more likely to indicate the chain retailer for whom it was fabricated rather than information indicating a specific manufacturer.

first thing to do when you have the yellow to hand is to search out the serial.  its location and format can provide a helpful clue as to the maker.  

the german language forum cited by herr gorman above might be a good place to check for information on reading the serials of specific german producers.

checked for you over at bf to see if there had ever been a discussion of bauer serials.  unfortuantely there has not. searching on the bauer name, at least in english, is problematic as there is a steve bauer brand of two-wheeler based in australia.  most of their products are contract manufactured on honshu by maruishi.

am i correct in thinking that the fittings for the yellow machine shown in your posted images are everything which comes with the frame?  if this is the case you will be doing some fittings search as well...

you are fortuante that the chainset seen on your childhood machine exhibits a chainwheel pattern employed by many manufacturers at least through three generations so finding a chainset should not be too difficult.  you will need to decide on a crank arm length.  this would have varied with wheel size for this pattern of cycle.  an adult set with 170mm (6 3/4") arms might be too long for ground clearance depending on wheel size.  juvenile "tenspeed" road models with 600A/24 X 1 3/8" wheels usually employ a length of 150mm or 152mm.  possibly one compromise length you could try as an experiment would be 165mm (6 1/2").

in case it may be of help posted an assortment of kalkhoff headplates in this forum message -









						Tricycle ID please | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					






					thecabe.com
				




possible that monogram you found does not refer to maker but may be from a tubing supplier or it could be an inspector's mark.

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## Sportyworty (Today at 8:16 AM)

can you see it as well? There is a transfer on the bar in this pic of the Gold bike In my last post above. The vertical seat post bar. There is a transfer (decal) on the chain guard as well but cant make it out. It’s faded Red or Pink. I would like to acquire a head badge representative of the manufacturer rather than the supplier or retailer.

The Yellow bike is coming with frame, forks, stem, crankset, pedals and rear wheel.
Seller did not want to mess with sissy bar, seat, fenders, handle bars, or front wheel.

Once everything is identified and graded for serviceability the plan is to start a nice build. It would be nice to install a new Thun Thompson  BB or possibly upgrade to a cartridge style cotter set up. There are similar looking chain gears in cotter with 145 mm cranks but unsure on compatibility yet. Perhaps too short based on your description.
I am again thankful that you check in on my thread @juvela. My leg work and your feathering through the tailings has resulted in an exact match and it’s rewarding and makes me happy. It’s been a crash course in non Schwinn stingray style bikes. I had 3 bikes at Thanksgiving and joined the Cabe. I have 9 now. How can a person look at literally 1000’s of bikes online searching for just that exact one you had as a kid and not buy a few  along the way lol. I literally found a car buddy’s childhood bike for him in minty condition as well. It was a Columbia Playbike 88 with a chopper style fork setup.


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## Sportyworty (Today at 8:29 AM)

New NOS Cottered Crankset with 44T Chainring 140mm Vintage Bike VRC  | eBay
					

I believe they are 140mm in length.



					www.ebay.com
				












						Vintage Thun Thompson Cottered  Bottom Bracket Axle Set 35mm Press Cup Size  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Vintage Thun Thompson Cottered  Bottom Bracket Axle Set 35mm Press Cup Size at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


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## juvela (Today at 8:47 AM)

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https://www.ebay.com/itm/3942303774...d=link&campid=5335809022&toolid=20001&mkevt=1

chainwheel pattern here similar to but differing from that of your childhood cycle

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rear wheel -

if original hub will be a Fichtel & Sachs product marked either Centrix or Torpedo

beginning in 1958 they carry a letter date code -





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am able to see the white transfer on the seat tube of gold example

appears to begin with a capital letter H but cannot read the word

from what can be read of word do not think it Kalkhoff

one can almost, kinda-sorta, read the pink transfer on the chainguard but not quite...


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## Sportyworty (Today at 11:27 AM)

Here is a Kalkhoff with a head badge like one of the examples in your above link @juvela. Interestingly it is similar vintage with same fenders as my machine but different guard and lugging. I sus both being German and of same ish era would share parts with other mfg in Germany and possibly Austria as well. So Bauer, Standard and Kalkhoff were all separate entities producing bikes in the late 60’s is a fact?









						Kulknuff German vintage bicycle, Project Bike  | eBay
					

Kulknuff German vintage bicycle, Project Bike.



					www.ebay.com


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## juvela (Today at 11:55 AM)

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yes, all separate entities producing cycles at that epoch

interesting to see the similar chainwheel pattern and aluminum fork crown cap on the Kalkhoff vs the three frames you discovered earlier

likely that its chainset actually produced by Thun itself


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## Sportyworty (Today at 2:18 PM)

Finally, exactly as you surmised much much earlier. The Bauer Marque with the matching lug pattern of the 3 bikes. Unless my eyes are missing something @juvela this is the matchup 2AT
BOCAMA pattern 30/I Still the closest match?


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## juvela (49 minutes ago)

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does not appear a match to my eye

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background on german production cycles and lug patterns:

"usually" with cycles produced in france, italy, belgium, netherlands & switzerland can identify lug pattern and if not exact pattern at least manufacturer

with german production see patterns "somewhat similar" to those known but do not recognise a maker

suspect there to be one or more german lug manufacturers unknown to me


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