# Schwinn experts- Have you ever seen a drop out like this? '56 Corvette



## Nickinator (Dec 24, 2014)

In the 100's of middleweight Schwinns I have had, I have never seen this on a dropout. Nor have I seen what looks like a factory X at the end of the S/N. This X looks like a factory stamping. 

Does it have anything to do with the seam? crack? repair? on the dropout? The seam runs partially down the backside as well, but it seems solid-? 

Bike appears to be original paint, but still examining it in that regards, but even if it was a repaint, still doesn't explain the "X".....

FYI, have already shown this to GTs58, he has never seen it either, our guess is that it was a damaged during the S/N stamping, and perhaps they marked it with an X, and maybe it shouldn't have been used?

Anyone seen this before, or know what the deal is?

FYI there was a thread on this earlier this year, not sure it's the same deal...
http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?52873-1954-corvette&highlight=54+corvette

Thx,
Darcie


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## bikecrazy (Dec 24, 2014)

Gray primer tells me it is a repaint. I have never seen a dropout like that. I am going with a defect that was noted and built anyway.


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## Jeff54 (Dec 24, 2014)

Repaint agreed, plus it looks too orange for flamboyant red. But 1st coat should be red lead primer, then silver, gold and thick candy transparent red. 

looks like a wielded repair, x could mean rejected and it certifies quality control pass. or who ever repaired it signs his work.

pretty unusual fer 56 to be so sloppy. 

maybe the x also tells dealers it was discounted reject sales and for it, had no warranty privileges. .


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## Nickinator (Dec 24, 2014)

The color on this one matches exactly some early original ones I have (may be the lighting/camera) so that had me thinking about if/how/when it would have been repainted. I didn't think this was flamboyant red, but radiant red? Does not match a later flamboyant red one I have. Also, this does not look like a welded repair to me, way too clean, and no damage to the S/N right next to it. ?


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## Jeff54 (Dec 24, 2014)

Yeah sorry it's neither, they called it Opel red in 55 and  opalescent red in 56.. 

regardless, it's a 4 part paint job, no gray primer.

I got a sample of Opel red here. the red is richer and darker than your photo shows. 

blow it up and you can see the layers, coats of paint Schwinn used to make the color. .

with all the layers it's a nice deep color. Very cool


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## spoker (Dec 24, 2014)

hey Darcie,call down to the shop and asl Doug or Tony,youd be suprized what Doug will remember sometimes


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## Nickinator (Dec 24, 2014)

Yeah AJ that's a good idea, I was thinking about bringing it in, but bottom line to me is that this defect on the dropout affects it's value quite a bit, and if it's also a repaint...this is a parts bike. 

Darcie


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## island schwinn (Dec 24, 2014)

I would use that defect as a selling point.
Here we have the only one known to exist.be the only one in the world with this style dropout.
Seriously though,I remember reading something about the X being stamped on the end of a serial number,but memory doesn't work real good any more.


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## Pantmaker (Dec 24, 2014)

Here's a 55 original paint bike.


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## Nickinator (Dec 24, 2014)

I've got 3 '57's out in the shed, is the '57 paint the same?


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## Jeff54 (Dec 24, 2014)

55, 56, 57, 58 Opal, and 59: Radiant Red


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## spoker (Dec 24, 2014)

just my observation,ive painted a few things over theyears,first im gonna check some og bikes out,i dont know why schwinn would use a double base coat,ie gold over silver, painted alot of candy and cant see the advantage of covering silver with gold,i may be wrong ill know this summer,for what its worth and information only,it looks like a repaint,but a good one,the resone i say that is the paint build up at the ends of the tubes and in the serial numbers,the paint used is translucent and when done manually requiers multipul coats to get the right tint,its a very fine line beyween getting a run or paint build up around non-flat areas,so i may have given more info than your lookin for,if your goal is to find out about the x then the paint prolly isnt a big concern,thanks for listening


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## Evans200 (Dec 24, 2014)

For what it's worth, in the car world, an X in the VIN usually mean experimental.


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## GTs58 (Dec 24, 2014)

Very interesting Darcie. Now after seeing the dropout with the fender braces off I can verify that at least the dropout has been repainted. As said before, Schwinn used a Red Oxide primer, and I see gray primer at the mounting hole. Also, Schwinn only used one base coat under the candy, either gold in the mid fifties or the silver. Red will fade out making it look like it has a somewhat gold undercoat but both gold and silver together was never a painting process practiced by Schwinn. 

I still believe the dropout steel was compromised when the two ears were stamped being formed to match the stays for the EF welding. Your X does not match the X in alvi's thread and it for sure doesn't match the normal serial number X's that Schwinn used. Someone for some good reason added that old English X stamp after the serial was stamped. Also, alvi's X was obviously stamped after the bike was originally painted so it wasn't a factory stamping when the serial was stamped.


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## spoker (Dec 24, 2014)

yep the X is larger


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## Nickinator (Dec 26, 2014)

Ok with closer observation, what appears to be grey primer on the DO is actually bare metal and silver undercoat. No grey primer. 

I compared side by side, this bike with an original '57, and the paint is the same shade, nicks and scratches have the same characteristics- however the 56's paint is quite a bit shinier, which makes me think it was for sure clearcoated and re-decaled....


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## spoker (Dec 26, 2014)

yes the bike with the pedals has a clear coat,non-catalizted clear,just clear and reducer


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## allie.brinson (Dec 26, 2014)

Nickinator said:


> In the 100's of middleweight Schwinns I have had, I have never seen this on a dropout. Nor have I seen what looks like a factory X at the end of the S/N. This X looks like a factory stamping.
> 
> Does it have anything to do with the seam? crack? repair? on the dropout? The seam runs partially down the backside as well, but it seems solid-?
> 
> ...



Do you know anything about latonia model bikes made by boren bike company I can't find anything on them


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## GTs58 (Dec 26, 2014)

*No Gray Primer Or Red Primer?*

More tastes tests may be needed.   Is there any red oxide primer on the 56? Looking at that dropout picture I see no primer if that gray spot is bare steel. It wasn't until the 1963 models (Flamboyant Red) where Schwinn cut one coat of paint out of their process, the red oxide primer. This was only on the candy colors though. The solid colors still had just the red primer and then the color coat. The 63 and up models just had the aluminum primer/base coat and then the colored candy coat. All my 50's and early 60's, thru 1962 had the red primer under the silver base coat.


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## Nickinator (Dec 26, 2014)

I have not seen any red primer, yet, on either bike. Maybe it's harder to see with red paint? I can see it easily with black bikes.
Do you have any red painted bikes with red primer showing?


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## GTs58 (Dec 26, 2014)

The best places to check are inside and outside of all the dropouts, the chain stay drive side from chips caused by the chain or areas where there's some good scuff/rub marks. If a tire was rubbing the fork or inside the chainstays a good feathering of the paint layers will usually occur. It is harder to see the primer on the red bikes. I have some good pictures but I haven't loaded them on my new computer yet.


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## Nickinator (Dec 27, 2014)

Ok, seeing some red primer under the seat clamp. So possibly paint is orig, but has been clearcoated.....


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## Jeff54 (Dec 27, 2014)

perhaps clear coated but keep in mind, the last coat on Opal red was a clear' transparent red. it's a virtual clear coat but red, otherwise it wouldn't be red because it's not red under it. 

. 
some observations of your drop out, to the right where it's indented by the washer, there appears to be a couple indents that have paint inside of them at far right..

Also, while it looks like a crack repair but you say it's not, then it's just slag  from welding that dropped on it during manufacture..

But interestingly enough, if you look at bottom of the slag, near the washer indents , there appears to be a small 0 stamped in..

And what's that right angle, partial square and what looks like possibly a 5 in the center in the upper left of it?. looks like another stamped impression. 

Note: The red lead that Schwinn used as a primer sticks to the metal base, very, very well.


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## rhenning (Dec 27, 2014)

It seems I remember reading someplace years ago that the x means that the frame is a warranty frame and serial number doesn't indicate a year.  Roger


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## Rivnut (Dec 27, 2014)

allie.brinson said:


> Do you know anything about latonia model bikes made by boren bike company I can't find anything on them




When you hijack a thread for purposes other than the reason it was started, you'll get no responses.


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## Pantmaker (Dec 27, 2014)

Here's a cool example showing all of the layers on a 63 coppertone corvette.


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## Nickinator (Dec 28, 2014)

More interesting #'s....you can see the #'s 9113 on the backside of the dropout, and they are so small I had to get out my magnifying glass to read them....really odd. Also, the red primer is evident in several places on the Do now, and a better pic of the Do flaw itself, and what might be a partial stamping of a 5 in a box.  And look at all the slag! Someone's first day on the job?? 
Anyone interested in a weird frame?


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## Jeff54 (Dec 28, 2014)

Nickinator said:


> More interesting #'s....you can see the #'s 9113 on the backside of the dropout, and they are so small I had to get out my magnifying glass to read them....really odd. Also, the red primer is evident in several places on the Do now, and a better pic of the Do flaw itself, and what might be a partial stamping of a 5 in a box.  And look at all the slag! Someone's first day on the job??
> Anyone interested in a weird frame?




Yeah, you're right it has been clear coated, can see it on the red lead primer.. and with that prob is original paint albeit, faded closer to orange.. They'll go gold tone  when really badly faded. 


as far as the slag, forgetaboutit, unless ya repaint it, then I'd grind it off like should have been in first place.


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## spoker (Dec 28, 2014)

ya it looks like someone held the trigger and let the wire drop on the metal,also traslucen paint[candy]is clear with TONER added to it not solid pigment,was inventedby Gene Winfield and soon after bikes came with it on,it was supose to resemble a candied apple hence the name,i think schwinn used electro static to paint,thats why you dont see buildup around non flt areas like the ends of stays ands serial number stamps


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## Jeff54 (Dec 28, 2014)

GTs58 said:


> Very interesting Darcie. Now after seeing the dropout with the fender braces off I can verify that at least the dropout has been repainted. As said before, Schwinn used a Red Oxide primer, and I see gray primer at the mounting hole. Also, Schwinn only used one base coat under the candy, either gold in the mid fifties or the silver. Red will fade out making it look like it has a somewhat gold undercoat but both gold and silver together was never a painting process practiced by Schwinn.
> 
> .




OK I were, wro,,, wra, wroon,, you know that word that wives never use except on rare occasions.. that one. 

However, not as off base as one may tink..

Somebody told me some time ago that Schwinn had a 4 coat paint system for the Opal red, and from what I had it looked like red lead, silver, gold then transparent red..

But, me went and 200 grit sanded and then polished it with a auto paint scratch remover to a glassy sheen,  to thin out the layers more.. Because what is tough is getting the very thin silver to show. It appears white in photo in-between the gray and red. 

And here's what we got.. 4 coats is correct but not gold..

Red lead primer, and then a color that looks gray, on top of that a very thin coat of silver, and then transparent red.. 

When observing the original paint through the red, that silver, for lack of better word,  sort of crackles, although crackle doesn't describe properly as it is similar to an opalescence when the final red coat is applied. So, moreover, it's not your everyday silver, to be sure. . 

It's difficult to see the silver coat, but you can by noticing the different color separation between the red and gray is lighter, appears white in photo.
 A 8 meg micro shot but had to use the hand steady feature without having a tripod. micro works better without the steady hand feature but, this photo should do the trick. 

All that sand scratching is not my doing as it may appear in fact, I sanded in the direction which would have crisscrossed it, and then polished it all super shiny,   but, the original metal as finished by Schwinn. (good idea to get paint to stick well). However Schwinn's base sanding on metal makes it really tough when trying to get the coats to show. Now you can see how Schwinn's paint sticks too. Lucky fer the pure minded curious me just happens to have a girl 1955 opal red corvette that, the only red left on it is under the head badge.. .


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## Nickinator (Dec 28, 2014)

Yeah that does look like 4 coats...any extra numbers on your drop outs?


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## Jeff54 (Dec 28, 2014)

Yup I hadn't noticed before but just looked!!, after the serial numbers there's _like_ a little message that says: "fergetaboutit" [grin]

Consolation prize!!. there is a set of numbers on bottom of crank case, I discover yesterday when striping all parts off frame: 11004 and another which may be a 4 too, or an 3 stamped over an  A, or 5 over 4 or, who cares? LOL? Because, didn't Schwinn stamp  numbers on pre-assembled frame parts too? Part numbers.  Somebody's got to start hording girls bikes because, this Poor 24" girl is almost ready fer the salvage pile. And all that's wrong with it, besides a case of super fade to gold on top side  is two top coats of blue ugliness.


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## island schwinn (Dec 28, 2014)

The crank stamping is most likely a registration number from the local police or fire department.


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## Jeff54 (Dec 28, 2014)

island schwinn said:


> The crank stamping is most likely a registration number from the local police or fire department.


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## GTs58 (Dec 28, 2014)

Nickinator said:


> Yeah that does look like 4 coats...any extra numbers on your drop outs?




Nope, never four coats of paint on any Schwinn. Unless it was repainted. Schwinn advertised 4 coats at some point but that was misleading. The first so called coat was a *metal prep acid bath*, second coat was the red oxide primer, (is there really lead in that?) third coat was the silver or gold base and forth was the Candy color coat. Sooooo, there is actually only three coats of paint on the Opals and Radiants. Two coats on Black and the other solid colors. 

All the rear dropouts that I have ever looked at had a four digit part number on the insides. This was common when Schwinn started manufacturing more than two different types of frames since the dropouts were stamped out to mate up to the stays for the EF joints.


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## Nickinator (Dec 28, 2014)

GTs58 said:


> All the rear dropouts that I have ever looked at had a four digit part number on the insides. This was common when Schwinn started manufacturing more than two different types of frames since the dropouts were stamped out to mate up to the stays for the EF joints.




Funny I have never seen those! Guess I wasn't looking for them- they are very small.


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