# Restoring 1950 Black Phantom,



## Paul M (Jan 22, 2022)

I have a 1950, all original Schwinn Black Phantom. It is in very nice condition other than light surface rust on the chrome.  After being stored for the last 70ish years in an attic the original US ROYAL MASTER tires have disintegrated. Does changing the tires affect the future value of the bike?


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## Freqman1 (Jan 22, 2022)

I don't think that will affect the value just don't put some cheap Chinese tires on it. V/r Shawn


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## mr.cycleplane (Jan 22, 2022)

Sounds like a nice bike! Do the bike justice and put some Schwinn white/wall Typhoon Cords on it (the tires it left the dealer with!).


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## mr.cycleplane (Jan 22, 2022)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333164937792?campid=5335809022


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## HEMI426 (Jan 22, 2022)

Paul post some pic's of your bike, I'm sure everyone would love to see it.


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## Nashman (Jan 22, 2022)

Hey Paul,

Welcome to the Cabe. The bike sounds great!! Yeah, post some pics if you want. It sounds like your bike deserves some quality tires. If you are on a tight budget, & plan to ride the wheels off it, reproductions are the way to go. You can ride it anywhere with ease ( repro's can take higher pressure/less friction/easier peddling) as opposed to original rubber that generally has a lower max inflation. You need more push for the ride.

Original tires, unless NOS ( New old stock) in great condition, Used/dry/cracked, chances of a rupture/blowout are always possible. That said, original vintage rubber is of a higher quality that repro's and I have 70+ year old tires ( NOS) that are supple and like new and I trust them on any ride, as long as not "off road". It's like Grandpa walks fine on pavement, not so well on an uphill rocky trail. Kinda like me.

As posted above by @mr.cycleplane , there are some Schwinn Typhoon repro's available from the reputable seller on that link. They are decent, but imported ( China if I recall) are not as "beefy" as the originals in my humble opinion. There are other choices as well. One being Caber John's repro U.S. chain link treads that are original mold tires that look sharp and are high pressure, ( affordable at about $90.00/same as a decent imported repop) and come in black, or colored tread whitewalls. I highly recommend them and have them on many of my bikes, riders and display. Not original to your bike, but in the correct era ( originals)

Alternately you could search out a pair of NOS genuine Schwinn Typhoons here on the Cabe ( or elsewhere). They are out there, but can be pricey. If you are a purist, this is the way to go. The look/reward will be worth it. Here are some pics of John's chain treads/some original Typhoons on my Hornet. We can steer you to some if you choose. Original Goodyears are a sharp tire too. ( see pic)

Good luck!

Bob


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## PCHiggin (Jan 22, 2022)

mr.cycleplane said:


> Sounds like a nice bike! Do the bike justice and put some Schwinn white/wall Typhoon Cords on it (the tires it left the dealer with!).



I don't think all had whitewalls. Remember the Duncan yoyo bike? I think it had black walls, maybe not, it was still in the box, sorta, the box was pretty chewed up by mice. That  Might be owned by a member here. I prefer black walls  on anything with wheels


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## PCHiggin (Jan 22, 2022)

Lets see some pics.


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## Nashman (Jan 22, 2022)

PCHiggin said:


> I don't think all had whitewalls. Remember the Duncan yoyo bike? I think it had black walls, maybe not, it was still in the box, sorta, the box was pretty chewed up by mice. That  Might be owned by a member here. I prefer black walls  on anything with wheels



Yeah, blackwalls suit many bicycles, especially earlier examples and non "glammed/blinged" to start with. Not all vintage bikes (40's thru 60's) came with w/w tires. Generally the fancier top end bicycles came from Factory with whitewalls, ( much like cars of that era) the Schwinn Black Phantom being one of them.

 Not to say what is right or wrong. It's a personal taste in part. I ( am into vintage cars/motorcycles too) am partial ( prefer) whitewalls on my bikes/cars, but that's generally what they came with.

To see a 1960's muscle car with wide whitewalls or a 1950's vintage ride with thin redlines is just WRONG. ( but not a big deal) The same goes for bicycles. There is a wealth of original and reprinted literature that can be used for reference. In the end, it's what makes you happy/you get the look you want. If a person wants "original" and to show it as, it's worth doing your home work and representing as such.

Lots of my bicycles are slightly "custom" but that's what people did back in the day too. My cars and vintage motorcycle are as close to stock as I could go. That's a personal choice.  

Cheers,

Bob


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## Paul M (Jan 22, 2022)




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## Freqman1 (Jan 22, 2022)

Actually I'd leave those tires on it unless you want to ride it. Other than a light cleaning I'd do nothing to this bicycle. V/r Shawn


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## phantom (Jan 22, 2022)

Paul, that is a great Phantom that just needs the begeezzus detailed out of it. Very nice.


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## HEMI426 (Jan 22, 2022)

WOW, That's a nice one!!!!!


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## hzqw2l (Jan 22, 2022)

I would leave as is unless you're going to keep it and possibly ride it.

The second you clean those minty chrome parts, someone will claim it's got repop parts.  Been there with one I used to own.

Awesome bike.


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## Nashman (Jan 22, 2022)

Paul M said:


> View attachment 1553753
> 
> View attachment 1553754
> 
> ...



Sweet!


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## phantom (Jan 22, 2022)

hzqw2l said:


> I would leave as is unless you're going to keep it and possibly ride it.
> 
> The second you clean those minty chrome parts, someone will claim it's got repop parts.  Been there with one I used to own.
> 
> Awesome bike.



As long as the owner knows it's original and anyone who knows Phantom's can tell original parts from aftermarket I would make it as clean as possible without damaging any finishes. Ever go to a car show and nothing there but dirty original cars, probably not.


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## Nashman (Jan 22, 2022)

hzqw2l said:


> I would leave as is unless you're going to keep it and possibly ride it.
> 
> The second you clean those minty chrome parts, someone will claim it's got repop parts.  Been there with one I used to own.
> 
> Awesome bike.



Personally, I'd take LOTS of good pictures as it sits ( like you have) and then decide to leave "patina" or polish/detail. Again, it's a personal choice. Me, ( if keeping) I'd source either suitable repop tires ( If I was going to ride LOTS) or NOS Schwinn w/w Typhoons, polish it up, and enjoy.

If you plan to sell, I'd leave it as is and let the prospective buyer make the choice so there will be no question as to originality/repop parts etc .What a GREAT score!  Congrats.


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## PCHiggin (Jan 22, 2022)

Nashman said:


> Yeah, blackwalls suit many bicycles, especially earlier examples and non "glammed/blinged" to start with. Not all vintage bikes (40's thru 60's) came with w/w tires. Generally the fancier top end bicycles came from Factory with whitewalls, ( much like cars of that era) the Schwinn Black Phantom being one of them.
> 
> Not to say what is right or wrong. It's a personal taste in part. I ( am into vintage cars/motorcycles too) am partial ( prefer) whitewalls on my bikes/cars, but that's generally what they came with.
> 
> ...











						1951 Schwinn BLACK PHANTOM bicycle ad page ~ Ride To School • $19.95
					

1951 SCHWINN BLACK PHANTOM bicycle ad page ~ Ride To School - $19.95. FOR SALE! This comic ad (which measures about 7x10 inches) has some discoloration from age and general wear, but is still a cool display! Not a photocopy or more recent reproduction. 353401583732




					picclick.com
				




Are you familiar with the Duncan yoyo Phantom? I hope somebody reading this is. I don’t believe it had whitewalls.


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## PCHiggin (Jan 22, 2022)

Nice find btw


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## phantom (Jan 22, 2022)

PCHiggin said:


> 1951 Schwinn BLACK PHANTOM bicycle ad page ~ Ride To School • $19.95
> 
> 
> 1951 SCHWINN BLACK PHANTOM bicycle ad page ~ Ride To School - $19.95. FOR SALE! This comic ad (which measures about 7x10 inches) has some discoloration from age and general wear, but is still a cool display! Not a photocopy or more recent reproduction. 353401583732
> ...



I sort of remember the Duncan Phantom story years ago. A huge name in the hobby Big John, can't remember last name, supposedly had it along with several other in the box Phantoms. This goes back to around 2006 or so.


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## GTs58 (Jan 22, 2022)

There was a time during the Korean war that white walls were not available. There's some Schwinn lit that states when the white walls were again available on their bikes.


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## Nashman (Jan 22, 2022)

PCHiggin said:


> 1951 Schwinn BLACK PHANTOM bicycle ad page ~ Ride To School • $19.95
> 
> 
> 1951 SCHWINN BLACK PHANTOM bicycle ad page ~ Ride To School - $19.95. FOR SALE! This comic ad (which measures about 7x10 inches) has some discoloration from age and general wear, but is still a cool display! Not a photocopy or more recent reproduction. 353401583732
> ...



Ha!!  I stand corrected. After almost 40 years in the hobby, I don't remember what I see. That's what getting old is all about!! I had that Schwinn original ad in my man cave bathroom for years, and yes, total blackwalls. Obviously came with either. Personally, I run clay's ( John's repops if I recall?) on my Red Phantom ( see pic), but that's my choice. I took a few pics of some original literature I have, and sure'enuff, they are pictured with both w/w and b/w. I included a couple of Panther pics too. Life is a learning curve. Too bad mine is curving downward LMAO........


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## Freqman1 (Jan 22, 2022)

PCHiggin said:


> 1951 Schwinn BLACK PHANTOM bicycle ad page ~ Ride To School • $19.95
> 
> 
> 1951 SCHWINN BLACK PHANTOM bicycle ad page ~ Ride To School - $19.95. FOR SALE! This comic ad (which measures about 7x10 inches) has some discoloration from age and general wear, but is still a cool display! Not a photocopy or more recent reproduction. 353401583732
> ...


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## Nashman (Jan 22, 2022)

Some nice B/W posted @furyus 

Schwinn Typhoon Cord Tires 26 x 2.125 Pair​


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## PCHiggin (Jan 22, 2022)

No big deal, I’m also a Deetroit made mini bike guy, been playing with and horse trading them for decades. A few guys around here  have theirs since new in the 60’s, so they consider themselves experts, as do I. Problem is, every now and then somebody else pops up with their “original” mini from childhood in a different color, wheels etc and tosses the conventional wisdom out the window. This stuff was made to sell, distributors, dealers  had lots of leeway in doing so.


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## PCHiggin (Jan 22, 2022)

Thank You. Would like to see that one assembled


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## PCHiggin (Jan 22, 2022)

Thank You!! I’d like to see that one again.


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## GTs58 (Jan 22, 2022)

Blackwalls on some specific brands were also an option.


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## Nashman (Jan 22, 2022)

PCHiggin said:


> No big deal, I’m also a Deetroit made mini bike guy, been playing with and horse trading them for decades. A few guys around here  have theirs since new in the 60’s, so they consider themselves experts, as do I. Problem is, every now and then somebody else pops up with their “original” mini from childhood in a different color, wheels etc and tosses the conventional wisdom out the window. This stuff was made to sell, distributors, dealers  had lots of leeway in doing so.



Right on!


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## Vicious Cycle (Jan 22, 2022)

phantom said:


> As long as the owner knows it's original and anyone who knows Phantom's can tell original parts from aftermarket I would make it as clean as possible without damaging any finishes. Ever go to a car show and nothing there but dirty original cars, probably not.



I agree, clean it as good as possible, someone will find fault no matter what you do. Stop the oxidation, clean, wax and ride it.


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## HEMI426 (Jan 22, 2022)

In the what dealers did to make a sale, my buddy bought a 69 Dodge Charger new and only to find out many years later it was a Daytona the dealer took the wing and nose off because it wasn't selling. When he found out he went back to the dealer and bought the take-offs. He still has the car, it even made the cover of a Mopar magazine.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Jan 22, 2022)

HEMI426 said:


> In the what dealers did to make a sale, my buddy bought a 69 Dodge Charger new and only to find out many years later it was a Daytona the dealer took the wing and nose off because it wasn't selling. When he found out he went back to the dealer and bought the take-offs. He still has the car, it even made the cover of a Mopar magazine.



but the big question is did it have whitewalls?


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## phantom (Jan 22, 2022)

PCHiggin said:


> 1951 Schwinn BLACK PHANTOM bicycle ad page ~ Ride To School • $19.95
> 
> 
> 1951 SCHWINN BLACK PHANTOM bicycle ad page ~ Ride To School - $19.95. FOR SALE! This comic ad (which measures about 7x10 inches) has some discoloration from age and general wear, but is still a cool display! Not a photocopy or more recent reproduction. 353401583732
> ...



I remembered his name. John Cellini from NJ.  On "that other sight" his user name was 69RS/SS. I remember a post where he found 23 Krates in the box at one time.


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## GTs58 (Jan 22, 2022)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> but the big question is did it have whitewalls?



Most likely it did.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Jan 22, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> Most likely it did.
> 
> View attachment 1553879



 I was asking about the Charger Daytona


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## phantom (Jan 22, 2022)

HEMI426 said:


> In the what dealers did to make a sale, my buddy bought a 69 Dodge Charger new and only to find out many years later it was a Daytona the dealer took the wing and nose off because it wasn't selling. When he found out he went back to the dealer and bought the take-offs. He still has the car, it even made the cover of a Mopar magazine.
> 
> View attachment 1553861
> 
> View attachment 1553862



They would have had to do a ton more than just the nose and tail. The roofline/rear deck and rear window are not interchangeable without some major body work.


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## HEMI426 (Jan 22, 2022)

They did none of that, pulled the wing and nose and sold it as a 69 Charger period.


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## GTs58 (Jan 22, 2022)

HEMI426 said:


> They did none of that, pulled the wing and nose and sold it as a 69 Charger period.




When those came out the local dealer here had two on the lot. When I saw those I thought they were the ugliest thing I've ever seen, and they sat on the lot for quite a while. They did draw a lot of attention though! And then the dealer sold a bunch of stripped down Road Runners.


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## PCHiggin (Jan 22, 2022)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> but the big question is did it have whitewalls?



Well, Now I’m way into the weeds. Our High School Librarian had a new ‘69 Charger R/T. S/E.  440 Magnum auto, Magnum 500
wheels and whitewallls lol


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## PCHiggin (Jan 22, 2022)

phantom said:


> I remembered his name. John Cellini from NJ.  On "that other sight" his user name was 69RS/SS. I remember a post where he found 23 Krates in the box at one time.



Yes! Now I remember his name from the old Schwinn Forums. I think He frequently traveled the country following leads. Wished I had the freedom to do it back then.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Jan 22, 2022)

they had Plymouth Superbirds at the Chrysler Plymouth dealer a block from my house with the wings facing the street back when I was 9 or so. rode our bikes to look at them. 

imagine, kids outside riding off to who knows where with no adult hovering over them and no phone in case of emergency. we were risk takers and daredevils back then.... until the streetlights came on.


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## nick tures (Jan 22, 2022)

what a find new grease tires and ride i wouldnt even clean it !


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## falconer (Jan 23, 2022)

That is one nice Phantom! What is the serial?


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## falconer (Jan 23, 2022)

Hello, you mention that your bike has US Royal Masters. Your bike appears to be an early no rivet model. I have a green one that is very similar and has same tires, they look original. Were these bikes sold with this tire? Just curious, any response appreciated. Thanks


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## Paul M (Jan 23, 2022)

falconer said:


> Hello, you mention that your bike has US Royal Masters. Your bike appears to be an early no rivet model. I have a green one that is very similar and has same tires, they look original. Were these bikes sold with this tire? Just curious, any response appreciated. Thanks



I wasn't born yet when these tires went on. I believe they are either original, or a modification made by the original owner when he was a kid. This is a one-family bike.


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## Paul M (Jan 23, 2022)

falconer said:


> That is one nice Phantom! What is the serial?



G239016


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## Freqman1 (Jan 23, 2022)

falconer said:


> Hello, you mention that your bike has US Royal Masters. Your bike appears to be an early no rivet model. I have a green one that is very similar and has same tires, they look original. Were these bikes sold with this tire? Just curious, any response appreciated. Thanks



Those are the original tires. My Dec ‘49 bike had the same tires on it when I got it and there is lit that backs this up. V/r Shawn


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## Paul M (Jan 23, 2022)

Based on the serial #, it is a 1950 B-17


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## Paul M (Jan 23, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> Those are the original tires. My Dec ‘49 bike had the same tires on it when I got it and there is lit that backs this up. V/r Shawn



That's what I figured, thank you.  Based on the model year, my father-in-law would have received this when he was about 14. How many years would he have ridden this before he got his driver's license? I think this is probably a pretty low mileage bike with its original rubber.


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## Nashman (Jan 23, 2022)

Paul M said:


> That's what I figured, thank you.  Based on the model year, my father-in-law would have received this when he was about 14. How many years would he have ridden this before he got his driver's license? I think this is probably a pretty low mileage bike with its original rubber.



You married the right girl!! I got my drivers license when I was 16. That is ONE low mileage bicycle. Right on..........


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## mickeyc (Jan 24, 2022)

HEMI426 said:


> They did none of that, pulled the wing and nose and sold it as a 69 Charger period.



And front fenders, annnd added the complete front end from a Charger (fenders, grille, bumper, etc.).  Don't forget the paint match.....


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## phantom (Jan 24, 2022)

mickeyc said:


> And front fenders, annnd added the complete front end from a Charger (fenders, grille, bumper, etc.).  Don't forget the paint match.....



And even a lot more than that !


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## HEMI426 (Jan 24, 2022)

I stand corrected and want to apologize, the dealer did put on a 69 front clip, a 68 grille, filled the wing holes and painted it red before selling it in 74. I talked to my buddy Paul, his brother Frank ( who helped me build my 426 hemi) bought the Charger new in 74. It sat on the dealers back lot for 5 years. First titled and sold to Frank in 74 for $1500, and he sold it to his brother Paul in 1980 for $700. Paul put it back to a Daytona. He is one of our local body and paint guys. The whole story is in the magazine. Mopar Muscle, Mar. 2017 VOL.3O, NO3. THANKS and again I'm sorry.


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## schwinnderella (Jan 28, 2022)

Schwinn Reporter March 1951



Schwinn Reporter May 1952


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## Paul M (Jan 28, 2022)

Thank you. Wow, what a different world!


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## PCHiggin (Jan 28, 2022)

Makes sense, The Korean War. I only heard of shortages during  WWII


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## razinhellcustomz (Jan 29, 2022)

mr.cycleplane said:


> Sounds like a nice bike! Do the bike justice and put some Schwinn white/wall Typhoon Cords on it (the tires it left the dealer with!).



I just bought 2 Schwinn Typhoon cord blackwalls for a very reasonable price and will put them on my 56 Black Phantom... Really clean bike.. RideOn.. Razin..


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## razinhellcustomz (Jan 29, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> There was a time during the Korean war that white walls were not available. There's some Schwinn lit that states when the white walls were again available on their bikes.



That's because the RUSSKIES were putting Wide whites on all their missile haulers back during the Cold War..


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## Freqman1 (Feb 4, 2022)

razinhellcustomz said:


> I just bought 2 Schwinn Typhoon cord blackwalls for a very reasonable price and will put them on my 56 Black Phantom... Really clean bike.. RideOn.. Razin..



Pic of the Phantom?


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## Paul M (Feb 4, 2022)




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## Freqman1 (Feb 4, 2022)

razinhellcustomz said:


> I just bought 2 Schwinn Typhoon cord blackwalls for a very reasonable price and will put them on my 56 Black Phantom... Really clean bike.. RideOn.. Razin..



Pic of your Phantom Mark?


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## razinhellcustomz (Feb 4, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> Pic of your Phantom Mark?



I'll text you some pix tomorrow as were getting dumped on right now.. Thanks for your interest Shawn..


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## phantom (Feb 4, 2022)

razinhellcustomz said:


> I'll text you some pix tomorrow as were getting dumped on right now.. Thanks for your interest Shawn..



Can't you just post here and share with all of us ?


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## PCHiggin (Feb 6, 2022)

Paul M said:


> View attachment 1563677
> 
> View attachment 1563678
> 
> ...



Man, That’s s beauty! Would love to find its twin


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## phantom (Feb 8, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> Pic of your Phantom Mark?


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## razinhellcustomz (Feb 8, 2022)

You gotta spare phone? My son took the phone i had that was attached to my account and here i sit.. I give UP...


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## Paul M (Mar 5, 2022)

Does anyone else remember the "Schwinn Shop"? Mine was on Taylor Rd in Cleveland Heights, Ohio. It was a regular stop on my way home from school in the late 60's/early 70's.  I spent my paper route money trading and buying up. I can still remember the smell of tires and oil. Yum.


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## razinhellcustomz (Mar 5, 2022)

Paul M said:


> Does anyone else remember the "Schwinn Shop"? Mine was on Taylor Rd in Cleveland Heights, Ohio. It was a regular stop on my way home from school in the late 60's/early 70's.  I spent my paper route money trading and buying up. I can still remember the smell of tires and oil. Yum.



Yep.. Spanglers Honda hut and the Schwinn store was one in the same.. Went in their lots of times to check out all the cool bikes and motorcycles in the late 60's-70's.. Never was really into bikes at the time , so never really had much money at the time cutting lawns..


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## GTs58 (Mar 5, 2022)

There was only one Schwinn shop in Mesa when I was a kid. Pat's was one door down from Websters Hobby House and I usually made multiple trips a week to both places during Summer break and Holiday days off from school. I grew up with the owners Son that was the same age as me.


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