# Original Condition Saddle Reference Thread



## rustjunkie (Sep 17, 2017)

As with all things old, saddles in good original condition are getting tougher to find as each day passes.
Post up pics of good origies here, and if you can 100% positively identify the bike it came on please note that as well. 
Catalog pages and adverts welcome too.


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## rustjunkie (Sep 17, 2017)

Here's a leather B-7 Mesinger that belongs to a bud.
The rails pierce the spring bracket, flat seat post clamp, and the springs are 2-piece.


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## Schwinn499 (Sep 17, 2017)

B-60 off an unequipped '41 Schwinn DX.


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## rustjunkie (Sep 22, 2017)

Here's a leather Mesinger B-1 De Luxe that I've been wondering about. Feels like it's felt padded, rods screw into pan, and the chassis rails are the same as 1930's long-springs with the ends bent and riveted to the spring bracket, 1" clamp
This good orig is here along with a rough one,  only two I've noticed.
Anyone have one on a bike?


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## rustjunkie (Oct 3, 2017)

Ladies leather B-4 De Luxe:




Cadmium plated side plates:







Deep stamp:




The leather isn't great on this one, but that lets us see the original construction of the upholstery:








This one is sponge rubber padded. These often collapse with age and heat, sticking to the pan and sometimes melting.
Upper pans weren't painted:




Enameled springs, not all B De Luxe saddles had chrome springs.




Enameled "chassis", clamp assembly (there are different designs, this one is prewar), and under pan with original decal. From what I've seen the enamel had a good gloss:







No paint or plating on upper pan:




Rails riveted under spring bracket.
Many chassis have this "ghosting" and runs here and there. Painted quickly I suppose, no primer:







Curved spring:




Painted spring rods thread into upper pan:


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## rustjunkie (Jan 11, 2019)

b-7 felt padded leather “youths” saddle. 
video shows how the upholstery “floats”.


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## rustjunkie (Jan 14, 2019)

Here's a super nice Gordon courtesy @ace 

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/very-nice-teens-gordon-1-saddle.145852/


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## TieDye (Jan 14, 2019)

A Mesinger foam rubber pad B Deluxe ladies model. Not sure of the model number or what it was originally on. It's all original and hasn't been messed with. If you can tell me the model # and what it was original too, and a catalog page showing it, I would be deeply grateful.
Deb


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## rustjunkie (Jan 14, 2019)

TieDye said:


> A Mesinger foam rubber pad B Deluxe ladies model. Not sure of the model number or what it was originally on. It's all original and hasn't been messed with. If you can tell me the model # and what it was original too, and a catalog page showing it, I would be deeply grateful.
> Deb
> 
> View attachment 933200
> ...





De Lux B-4, common to most manufacturers in the 1930s
nice saddle


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## TieDye (Jan 14, 2019)

rustjunkie said:


> B-4 DeLuxe, common to most manufacturers in the 1930s
> nice saddle



Thanks for helping me on that, as I've been wondering for a few years now.  It's currently on my 1939 Excelsior, which should have a shorter spring saddle on it.


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## rustjunkie (Jan 14, 2019)

TieDye said:


> Thanks for helping me on that, as I've been wondering for a few years now.  It's currently on my 1939 Excelsior, which should have a shorter spring saddle on it.




the De Luxe B-4 was available with "compound" springs, pre-and post-war, evidently available with conical springs as well.


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## rustjunkie (Jan 14, 2019)

Here's another interesting ad, from the invaluable "bicycle trinkets" book available from our gracious host:

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=303015584248


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## Jesse McCauley (Jan 29, 2019)

Here is an interesting saddle I would love to get some commentary on. 
Based on my experience with early men's racing saddles I believe this is a contemporary women's racing saddle from the Butler and Ward company ca. 1895/6. 
It is distinctly wider and shorter than the men's equivalent but the distinct high back and posture of the saddle is unmistakable as a racer. It could be a men's just of a different style/dimension but my gut says otherwise.


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## Jesse McCauley (Jan 29, 2019)

@rustjunkie sorry this took me a while to post, I snapped these when I was dismantling a great Colson loop tail women’s for shipping.


























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rustjunkie (Feb 23, 2019)

here's a conical spring B-2 De Luxe Mesinger from @airflo11
first B-2 i've seen, anyone seen another?
note the natural stretch marks from the cow showing in the full-grain leather.


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## rustjunkie (Jun 4, 2019)

Here's a 1930s mesinger long spring from an ebay listing.
note:
no side plates
stamp placement
fabric layer under between pad and top


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## cyclingday (Jun 4, 2019)

This rarely seen original condition Mesinger Flexible Champion saddle showed up on eBay tonight.





































Definitely an odd looking chassis.


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## rustjunkie (Jul 1, 2019)

Here's one from an ebay listing. Single-pan conical spring Mesinger B-1 De Lux.
Notice the pan has cleats to secure the leather.


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## rustjunkie (Jul 31, 2019)

From ebay
Mesinger B-10 juvenile
felt pad
side plates


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Jul 31, 2019)

My Garford saddle for my 1896 Columbia 40. Nearly 124 years of originality.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Jul 31, 2019)

My 1896 Kells saddle for my 1896 Crescent No.1


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Jul 31, 2019)

My 1901 Wheeler? on my 1901 Rambler
With Rambler script.


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## rustjunkie (Nov 28, 2020)

here's an uncommon one
post-war 1940s
pebbled synthetic top
made in usa mesinger pat applied for stamp, no model #
feels like felt pad
full-size mens


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## rustjunkie (Dec 5, 2020)

here’s a pre-wwii mesinger b-4, 
top orig, metal parts painted black long ago. 
note the deep stamp and heavy grain & natural stretch marks to the full-grain vegetable-tanned leather.


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## cyclingday (Dec 5, 2020)

Mesinger Auto Cushion Saddle.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Dec 5, 2020)

1896 Garford


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## rustjunkie (Dec 8, 2020)

ladies mesinger 1


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## rustjunkie (Dec 9, 2020)

okay this one may not seem to fit the theme but it has some interesting points of note for reference.
it’s an early compound spring mesinger, note the rails go thru the spring saddle.
the springs are split, as presumably they hadn’t yet figured out to flange the spring rods yet?
big front spring, pic'd showing a later pre-war as comparison. just noticed there's a washer under the front spring nut...?
the clamp is the v1 slider.
mesinger used gloss paint.
and what caught my attention is the decal placement.
oh btw i could use one of these chassis, another that's here is cracked.


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## rustjunkie (Dec 9, 2020)

mesinger b-8 conical spring “tornado”.
the saddles that have come to be called tornado are different from the more common flat-rail conical spring. 
wire chassis, tall conical springs with vertical mount, nose spring runs back to the rear spring mounts.


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## rustjunkie (Dec 9, 2020)

saw in another thread someone asking about the differences in the sliding clamps.

lemme say once again that i'm not an expert and what i don't know could just barely be squeezed into the grand canyon.
what's been noted is what's been noticed.

here are the sliding clamps i've seen, included is a twin wire-rail clamp to show the progression to the "v1" flat rail slider.
here's what i think:


the v1 is only on what i'm guessing to be the earliest split compound spring saddles. check out the comparison of the plates v1 to v2
v2 is 1930s(?).
v3 is 1940(?)-1949(?).
v4 used on what i'd guess to be the "value-priced" conical spring seats with springs riveted to the rails. post-war only? from what i've seen these are the least durable of the sliding clamps, they used a thinner gauge and apparently tried to make them sturdier by pressing beads into them....didn't work so well.

so whadya think?


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## rustjunkie (Dec 9, 2020)

a couple 1950s troxels


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## rustjunkie (Dec 9, 2020)

1930s BF Goodrich ladies long-spring


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## rustjunkie (Dec 9, 2020)

1930s ladies mead mesinger


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## New Mexico Brant (Dec 20, 2020)

Here are two rare birds: tops imprinted “Persons Peerless for Pedal Cycles,” the largest: Persons Puritan for Pedal Cycles.”  Both show up in early motorcycle literature.


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## rustjunkie (Dec 21, 2020)

came across this troxel saddle instruction tag today


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## rustjunkie (Jan 6, 2021)

question:

has anyone seen an original decal that differs from this?


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## cyclingday (Jan 6, 2021)

I had a Mesinger B1 Deluxe, that had that type of decal, but was Goodrich specific.
Unfortunately, I don’t have that saddle anymore, and I never took any photos of it.


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## cyclingday (Jan 6, 2021)

Another long spring Troxel.























Any help with its manufacture timeframe would be greatly appreciated.


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## Billythekid (Jan 7, 2021)

Old Dunlop rubber top


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## rustjunkie (Jan 15, 2021)

motor master milsco.
note the canvas layer visible in between the layers of leather at the edge.


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## rustjunkie (Jun 23, 2021)

troxel star from @lgrinnings :









						Superb TOC Troxel Star long spring leather saddle | Sell - Trade: Bicycle Parts, Accessories, Ephemera
					

Here's a superb, original, TOC/teens Troxel Star long spring leather saddle. Top is 10" x 7.75". The chassis features a long yoke with extension coils and single wire truss construction. The nickel shows some wear with most of the original finish remaining. The leather is soft, supple, and worn...




					thecabe.com


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## rustjunkie (Jun 23, 2021)

1930s persons from @lgrinnings 









						Sold - Exceptional 30s men's Persons leather moto bucket long spring saddle #1 | Archive (sold)
					

Here's an exceptional 30s prewar men's Persons moto bucket-style long spring saddle. Saddle cover measures 10" W x 11.5" L (13" total length including the nose spring). Persons stamp is clearly legible. Seat cover is incredible with a couple of very minor scuffs. Stitching is perfect. The...




					thecabe.com


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## rustjunkie (Jun 23, 2021)

another 30s persons from @lgrinnings 









						Sold - Sensational 30s men's Persons leather moto bucket long spring saddle #2 | Archive (sold)
					

Here's a sensational 30s prewar men's Persons moto bucket-style long spring saddle. Saddle cover measures 10" W x 11.5" L (13" total length including the nose spring). Persons stamp is clearly legible. Seat cover is beautiful with some slight scuffing along the back ridge. Stitching is perfect...




					thecabe.com


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## rustjunkie (Jun 23, 2021)

wheeler from @lgrinnings
note the spi









						Sold - Exceptional TOC Wheeler Leader short spring leather saddle | Archive (sold)
					

I'm going to regret selling this but here's an incredible, original, TOC Wheeler Leader short spring leather saddle. Top is 10.25" x 7.75". The saddle features short compression springs and single wire truss construction. One of the nose coil bolts has been replaced with a square blacksmith bolt...




					thecabe.com


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## rustjunkie (Dec 23, 2021)

here's a nice one that @Dave Stromberger has available, looks to be a juvenile size? not sure of the mfr....anyone know?


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## rustjunkie (Dec 23, 2021)

a nice womens troxel that @Hastings has available:


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## cyclingday (Jan 7, 2022)

Here’s an interesting one, that came on my 1917 Schwinn Excelsior.


I can’t quite make out the manufacturer’s name on it, but it does say, Auto Cushion underneath it.



Similar stamp from another saddle.
Mesinger had a line of saddles named, Auto-Cushion, so I’m guessing, it’s a Mesinger 6 Auto Cushion.



Interesting design, in that the conical springs are supported by the chassis, and the saddle support rods plunge through the bottom of the springs, so when it’s weighted, you only see the support rods moving up and down.


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## TieDye (Jan 7, 2022)

cyclingday said:


> Here’s an interesting one, that came on my 1917 Schwinn Excelsior.View attachment 1543824
> I can’t quite make out the manufacturer’s name on it, but it does say, Auto Cushion underneath it.View attachment 1543826View attachment 1543883Similar stamp from another saddle.
> Mesinger had a line of saddles named, Auto-Cushion, so I’m guessing, it’s a Mesinger 6 Auto Cushion.
> View attachment 1543825
> Interesting design, in that the conical springs are supported by the chassis, and the saddle support rods plunge through the bottom of the springs, so when it’s weighted, you only see the support rods moving up and down.



Mesinger.


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## dasberger (Jan 7, 2022)

Here's a nice Mesinger B1 as found on a '39/40 Iver Twin Loop Roadster


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