# When did they forget how to make tubes that hold air?



## rustndust (Feb 12, 2022)

I've got a dozen bikes here, two of them are all original, tires and tubes and all from the early 1950's. 
One is a Columbia Newsboy bike that my dad owned since new.  Its well used, but still has its original tires with what's left of the tires. The funny thing is they never go flat.  The same goes for one old Schwinn Racer I've had since I was a kid. Its got its original tires, dryrot and all, they never go completely flat. 
I do have to ad air when I use them, but they never go completely flat, even if they sit for several years. 
The old Columbia hasn't been ridden in 10 years, its sitting in the basement in the same spot since the last time I got it out for ride. Meanwhile, I bought new tires for a newer Speedster and I put new tires and tubes on a 60's Typhoon I have and those go flat in a couple months. 
I even went so far as to buy thorn resistant tubes but it makes no difference. It seems all modern tubes loose air over time. 
I've gotten to the point now where I add slime to nearly all my tubes to slow the leakage. Even then they still loose air. The older tubes loose pressure but never go 'flat'.


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## GTs58 (Feb 12, 2022)

Years ago a picked up a 1965 Varsity that sat in an attic for 30 years. I put it in the stand and ran it thru the gears and everything worked fine. I decided to take it for a  quick spin and just squeezed the tires to see if I needed to pump them up. Cool, didn't have to add air, they seemed like they had the usual 60 PSI and stuck stiff to the rims.  I hopped on and got to the end of the driveway. The tires had no air, but they were hard as a rock, literally, and it sure fooled me! Even looking at the tires there were no flat spots, felt and appeared to be fully inflated. So some old tires get hard and they keep there inflated shape with 0 PSI and can even be rolled around as if they were inflated.   🤣


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## morton (Feb 12, 2022)

.
*When did they forget how to make tubes that hold air?*​.....one word   GHINA  ☹️


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## locomotion (Feb 12, 2022)

rustndust said:


> I've got a dozen bikes here, two of them are all original, tires and tubes and all from the early 1950's.
> One is a Columbia Newsboy bike that my dad owned since new.  Its well used, but still has its original tires with what's left of the tires. The funny thing is they never go flat.  The same goes for one old Schwinn Racer I've had since I was a kid. Its got its original tires, dryrot and all, they never go completely flat.
> I do have to ad air when I use them, but they never go completely flat, even if they sit for several years.
> The old Columbia hasn't been ridden in 10 years, its sitting in the basement in the same spot since the last time I got it out for ride. Meanwhile, I bought new tires for a newer Speedster and I put new tires and tubes on a 60's Typhoon I have and those go flat in a couple months.
> ...



buy the high end tubes that are NOT made in China
expect that when you pay for cheap tubes, they will be cheaply made
buy the little tool to check the valves also, sometimes the valve is a little loose


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## bloo (Feb 12, 2022)

Have you owned any recent production tubes of any type or price that held air? If so, which ones?


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Feb 12, 2022)

I have used close to 20 sets of various new tubes, bell,goodyear and a few no names and have had only one tube bad out of the box. Perhaps some of the tubes on bikes I sold didn't hold up but I have had no comments as to the fact. All products made today run a higher chance of failing out of the box because quality is out gone across the board. Once it is consumers hand good chance they will eat the bad product. Companies knowingly selling inferior goods banking on the majority of people not making returns due to cost and inconvinence. I see it in when remodeling homes. A bad $300 shower valve out of the box can kill your production time and bottom line. If tubes were $.50 apiece would not be such a big deal. That is not the case.


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## bloo (Feb 12, 2022)

Failures sure, but what of them going slowly flat over weeks, even when there is no hole, and even if you put sealer in them? Whats up with that? Seeping through the rubber maybe?


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Feb 12, 2022)

bloo said:


> Failures sure, but what of them going slowly flat over weeks, even when there is no hole, and even if you put sealer in them? Whats up with that? Seeping through the rubber maybe?



I would guess more so faulty valve.


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## J-wagon (Feb 12, 2022)

New tubes most often have a removable valve core, air will leak around seal, not airtight. Many my old tube, valve core integrated not removable. Hold air better


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## J-wagon (Feb 12, 2022)

Variety of removable valve cores for schrader. On fubar tubes, I remove core and save spare parts. Once in a while replace faulty core. Blue metal is core removal tool.


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## bloo (Feb 12, 2022)

But if you put a cap over the valve, a defective valve core shouldn't matter.


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## CWCMAN (Feb 12, 2022)

Not necessarily, the valve cap is merely just a dust cap if you will. It is not designed as an air-tight device.


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## rustndust (Feb 12, 2022)

I don't think its the valve leaking, I've tried swapping in old school American made valves and even using metal boiler type valve caps that have a top gasket. It doesn't help. 
Brand doesn't seem to matter. 
I'm not talking about a tube that leaks out over night, I'm talking about the fact that if I pump up the tire to 50 psi, and three days later its down to 30 psi, in a month its almost completely flat, and in two months its flat, the tube comes out flat as if it was never inflated. 
The tubes in my dads old bike are marked Firestone, the tires are Carlisle Lightening Darts, the tubes are double the size of a modern tube in diameter. The tires are badly dry rotted and have bits of tread missing showing cords but they still hold air and hold weight. I can pump up the tires on that bike for a ride, around 35 psi, and ride it, then park it and let it sit for years and the tires will still be up when I come back to it. I don't ride it regularly, never more than a up and street and back but the tires are never flat and never have so little air that the bike couldn't be ridden as found if needed.
The same with my all original '65 Racer in the basement. I also have a 1973 Speedster that has its original tubes but its front tire was replaced and the tube patched about 35 years ago. The front tube has two patches on it done in the 1980's yet it still holds air better than a new one. 

The tubes that loose air are just about anything in the past 25 or so years. 
Their made in China, Vietnam, Korea, and Taiwan. I've not seen an American made tube in 40 or more years. 
First we saw tubes that fit multiple sizes, now its one size to cover one ISO size.

I put two new Kenda tires on a Schwinn Traveler a few days ago, the tubes were in a box branded Specialized, the tubes were shrink wrapped inside and inked the same plus Taiwan on the inside. They came from a local bike shop. The rims were spot clean and the tires were a tight fit. I put 65 psi in them on Monday, they were down to 30 psi two days later. 
The tubes were a pain to install, they were small in diameter than the rim but not small enough to be for a differebt size rim. They don't fill the inside of the tire until about 35 psi. If I inflate the new tubes out of the tire just to the point they hold their shape, they're 1/2" smaller than the rim's spoke bed but they're marked 26x1 3/8". 
Getting the tubes to inflate inside the tire and not under the bead or pinched was tough.
I had to use talcum powder to get the them to inflate and seat property and if the pressure drops below 40 psi the tires slip down off the bead area on the S5 rims. The original tires, although dry rotted fit like a glove. They're also 1/4" wider and nearly 1/2" taller than the new Kenda 37-597 tires.  
At first I bought only one new tire because I had one older Kenda tire that I've had for years, but when I got he new tire it was 5mm narrower and shorter than the older tire. (The older tire fit the rim better though. 
I went with two newer tires because I couldn't find another older tire.


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## razinhellcustomz (Feb 12, 2022)

morton said:


> .
> *When did they forget how to make tubes that hold air?*​.....one word   GHINA  ☹️



I feel for Morton, I have Diabetic Nephropathy in my feet and it's spreading to my hands along with my side effects of a Concussion several years ago it gets a little harder every day.. On a lighter note, got all 26 of my skin tags removed thanks to the V.A.... RideOnn.. Razin...


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## bloo (Feb 12, 2022)

CWCMAN said:


> Not necessarily, the valve cap is merely just a dust cap if you will. It is not designed as an air-tight device




On cars, I have had the plastic caps hold air. I know they weren't designed to, but more than once I have "borrowed" a plastic cap from one of my cars and suddenly and suddenly had a slow leak that was solved by putting on another cap.

My older bikes have metal caps with rubber gaskets inside. They still lose air.


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## razinhellcustomz (Feb 12, 2022)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> I have used close to 20 sets of various new tubes, bell,goodyear and a few no names and have had only one tube bad out of the box. Perhaps some of the tubes on bikes I sold didn't hold up but I have had no comments as to the fact. All products made today run a higher chance of failing out of the box because quality is out gone across the board. Once it is consumers hand good chance they will eat the bad product. Companies knowingly selling inferior goods banking on the majority of people not making returns due to cost and inconvinence. I see it in when remodeling homes. A bad $300 shower valve out of the box can kill your production time and bottom line. If tubes were $.50 apiece would not be such a big deal. That is not the case.



Yeah, and whens the last time you bought a tube that included the rim strip? 40 or more years ago probably more.. Just bought a bunch of Red  Diamond And Firestone tubes from @ Locomotion and can't wait to get some decent tubes for once.. Thanks Max...


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## razinhellcustomz (Feb 12, 2022)

bloo said:


> Failures sure, but what of them going slowly flat over weeks, even when there is no hole, and even if you put sealer in them? Whats up with that? Seeping through the rubber maybe?



I heard some where that air molecules break down over time and that older  tubes that have thicker rubber hold the air longer than thin wall tubes so maybe this theory has some merit...


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## locomotion (Feb 12, 2022)

bloo said:


> Have you owned any recent production tubes of any type or price that held air? If so, which ones?




depends on your budget
i most often go with Schwalbe tubes with all metal valves for most of my wood rim builds
the Tubolito's and Pirelli's are extremely strong, but really expensive







						Schwalbe Downhill Schrader 40 mm Inner Tube, Black | Bikeinn
					

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						Pirelli Pzero Presta 60 mm Smart Inner Tube, Yellow | Bikeinn
					

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						Tubolito X-Tubo City/Tour Schrader 40 mm Inner Tube, Orange | Bikeinn
					

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## bloo (Feb 12, 2022)

Well, if anyone has some recent production tubes in their bike that aren't leaking like this, I would like to know which tubes they are.


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## bloo (Feb 12, 2022)

locomotion said:


> depends on your budget
> i most often go with Schwalbe tubes with all metal valves for most of my wood rim builds
> the Tubolito's and Pirelli's are extremely strong, but really expensive



How long do these stay up? I would mainly need 26x2.125 and/or S7 with 2" tires. I know Schwalbe makes metal stem tubes in that size. Not sure about the others, but I am googling as I type this.


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## locomotion (Feb 12, 2022)

bloo said:


> How long do these stay up? I would mainly need 26x2.125 and/or S7 with 2" tires. I know Schwalbe makes metal stem tubes in that size. Not sure about the others, but I am googling as I type this.



that is a very difficult question to answer!
it depends on a ton of conditions
-how often you ride
-where you ride
-type of riding (lots of turns, road, gravel, ect)
-type of tubes
-type of valves
-types of tires
-how you install your tubes (you can easily pinch a tube if not careful)
-material of tube
-temperature
-and most important, the condition of your rims and the type of rim tape your use
ect!


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## IngoMike (Feb 12, 2022)

Schraeder says use the cap......air-tight up to 250 lbs.......


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## vincev (Feb 12, 2022)

I usually check the valves and make sure I clean them well. I have road bikes that take 120 psi and need to be checked every time I ride them.


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## razinhellcustomz (Feb 12, 2022)

vincev said:


> I usually check the valves and make sure I clean them well. I have road bikes that take 120 psi and need to be checked every time I ride them.



Iv'e been hearing a lot about the Nitro Fill that some car dealers in my area have been saying is better than air but can cost about $30.00 and up for four tiers.. Not cheap by any means..


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## locomotion (Feb 12, 2022)

razinhellcustomz said:


> Iv'e been hearing a lot about the Nitro Fill that some car dealers in my area have been saying is better than air but can cost about $30.00 and up for four tiers.. Not cheap by any means..



IMO a waste of money for a car, and useless for a bike
no tubes in a car tire and rubber is permeable, but to what extent!
N2 is a larger molecule, but ...... I never put air in my tires between tire change anyways









						Are Nitrogen-Filled Tires Worth the Cost? - Les Schwab
					

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but the real question is, how hard is it to pump air into your tires anyways?


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## ozzie (Feb 12, 2022)

Schwalbe AV13 tubes are my choice of the new stuff. Rubber is quite thick, they have metal Schrader valves and are reasonably priced.


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## razinhellcustomz (Feb 12, 2022)

locomotion said:


> IMO a waste of money for a car, and useless for a bike
> no tubes in a car tire and rubber is permeable, but to what extent!
> N2 is a larger molecule, but ...... I never put air in my tires between tire change anyways
> 
> ...



WOW, Max what do run around on FLATS or what?


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## Nashman (Feb 12, 2022)

It's the " new rubber" if you want to call it that. The old tires and tubes were made from a far superior material ( part being natural rubber if I recall). I think most of us old timers can attest to that. Anyone who has original ( made in Canada, U.S. or Britain as examples) tires or tubes can clearly see 50-100 year old tires that are still pliable, especially compared to anything made in the last 25-30 years. The newer ones crack and leak within a few years. Of course there are external factors such as heat and weather, humidity, wear, use, weight etc. , but in a comparable situation, all factors even, the old school win 10 fold. It's all about the money and mass production and lack of quality. I have quite a few sets of original tires on some of my bikes that are 70+ years old and are still pliable/no cracks or checking, and some repops that are 2-3 years old and are getting hard, cracking and breaking down. A grim reflection on what is the norm now. That's why it's important we keep the history alive with groups like the Cabe!!


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## bloo (Feb 12, 2022)

The real reason for putting nitrogen in car tires is not leakage. It might help a little with that because the nitrogen molecule is bigger than oxygen, but it isn't really that much bigger, and air has more nitrogen than oxygen anyway.

The real reason is that nitrogen is DRY! Moisture in a car tire causes tire pressure to vary with heat a LOT more than it would with dry air. I can sure see why you might want to do it on a high performance car or a race car. 

I don't use nitrogen, but I do mount car tires with a mostly dry silicone lubricant, and use nice dry air. If they are mounting your tires with water-based tire mounting slime then yeah, probably no benefit at all. I cant imagine why nitrogen should cost $30 either, especially if they were already mounting your tires. Has anyone else experienced this?


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## razinhellcustomz (Feb 12, 2022)

ozzie said:


> Schwalbe AV13 tubes are my choice of the new stuff. Rubber is quite thick, they have metal Schrader valves and are reasonably priced.



Iv'e had pretty good luck with the thicker Goodyear tubes that you can get at Walmart for $6.96 a piece or $12.00 for a two pack..


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## rustndust (Feb 12, 2022)

I've got a bag of vintage stainless steel valve caps that are branded Schrader on the bag. Those have a soft rubber insert in the top of the cap. I think their actually meant for an industrial application as they came from a closed HVAC supplier where I bought a bunch of shelving a number of years ago.

I've tried inflating the tubes and putting them in water but they never show any leaks, but they won't hold air long term.
A few years ago I bought a 500 pack of tire valve cores and valve caps from a tire supplier locally. The valve cores and caps were cheap, less than $5 in all. They get used more on old tubes than new tubes.
I lean more toward the fact that since these tubes are so undersized they get stretched super thin and thus are more porous than a tube that's not so stretched.
I've got a few old Firestone branded tubes from the 50's, they're more than double the size of a new tube the same nominal size.

I've not tried Schwalbe tubes, they're not sold locally. The LBS has Specialized, Pyramid, Sunlite, Action, and Michelin in the road bike sizes. They have Schwinn branded thorn resistant tubes but those are even skinnier than the regular tubes.
Here's a comparison between a newer tube and one removed from a bike that's not seen the light of day in 50 years. 
Both are marked 26x1 3/8"
The smaller tube weighs 5.5 oz.  and has the size in silver ink, it says made in Thailand and came from the LBS.
The larger one weighs 15.9 oz. and the size is marked in raised letters, there is no country of origin and the brand is marked in white ink along with the size and the words Fits Schwinn Bikes. I took a pair of these from a 1968 Breeze I stripped for its chrome bits.
Neither is a 'thorn resistant' tube. Both are inflated just to the point they round out. Both continue to grow in diameter with more air. The smaller tube gains diameter and width, the larger one only gains width. Both want to flip when inflated out of the tire. 
The larger tube can be stuffed inside a tire with a little air and it stays in place, the smaller tube is smaller than the tire and has to be stretched into place over the rim's edge. If it weren't marked 26x1 3/8" I'd have thought it was a 24" tube. 
The smaller tube is the norm now, some are even smaller.


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## locomotion (Feb 12, 2022)

razinhellcustomz said:


> WOW, Max what do run around on FLATS or what?



i am no tire pro, I just go by what I experience
to be honest, i seriously never put air in my tires
but in Quebec, we have to change our tires in the winter, and in the summer
we can't use 4 season tires, so they get changed more often .... i guess that might make a difference
also, when I get an oil change at the dealership, maybe they also check the tire pressure! maybe not ..... never asked

it might also depend on the quality of tires you put on your car
I never buy low cost import tires ..... does it make a difference? I really don't know, but one thing that I am sure of, is that I have never put air in my tires


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## bloo (Feb 12, 2022)

I believe you. I leave mine on year round, and usually have to add air when the cold weather comes. I suspect it might have more to do with temperature than leakage. They do check them usually if you have your oil changed.

Either way, they are OK for 6 months. I wonder why we cant keep the air in a bike tire like that? In my case, I am not 100% sure the tubes are worse (for various reasons), but it sure seems like it. This gets posted all the time. Since so many others have noticed I am inclined to think I am not imagining it. Thanks for the pointer to the urethane tubes. Pirelli doesn't have any 26, but Tubolito has a 26" cargo bike tube with a schrader valve that looks interesting. I'll have to try them at some point.


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## bobcycles (Feb 12, 2022)

Like new tires, I refuse to ride on new tubes...a month or so? out of the box?  flat.
I save tubes that were holding air on orig bikes, old USA made tires..have a ton 
of them.  way better insurance policy than most new tubes I've wasted money on.
I refuse to ride on 'new' (china or where ever) repop tires mainly in keeping with
the authenticity of the bike.  Only had one vintage/antique tire blow out on a ride.
Sad that the world has come down to profit over quality...same in so many departments.

My washer unit crapped out a month or so back.  Was hitting Craigslist for a replacement and even
went to a shop that refurbs old washer and dryers.  Dude told me if I'm buying used..get one
20 years old or so.  The new $ are totally problematic junk.  He was even stoked to buy
my non working 20 year old (cheapie CL score for 40 bucks that lasted 11 years) one back
to fix and resell.  I ended up finding an older washer on Craigs for 50 bux locally... 
thing works great.  I am recycling and not contributing to the mass production of cheap
garbage selling for insane gouge the idiot consumer prices in retail outlets.


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## bloo (Feb 12, 2022)

rustndust said:


> I lean more toward the fact that since these tubes are so undersized they get stretched super thin and thus are more porous than a tube that's not so stretched.




I have wondered if that might be the reason. Your example is pretty extreme, but yes the new ones are smaller and are also expected to stretch into a range of sizes. 

They should be SLIGHTLY undersize to facilitate easy mounting without pinches, but now they are so small it is ridiculous.


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## J-wagon (Feb 12, 2022)

rustndust said:


> I lean more toward the fact that since these tubes are so undersized they get stretched super thin and thus are more porous than a tube that's not so stretched



This is interesting thread. I've noticed various thickness tubes so probly thin tubes stretch and at threshold psi air escapes faster via butyl pores. Sounds like the fast deflation not happen with the thick tubes.


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## rustndust (Feb 12, 2022)

Walmart here quit selling adult bike parts and bikes a few years ago, they ripped out the bike racks and put in five or six new racks for video games instead.

The last tires at Walmart here were branded either Bell or Goodyear.
Goodyear no longer makes bike tires here anymore, that may also hold true for most car tires too.  I was looking for car tires a few months ago and none of the GY tires I found were made in the USA. (Cooper was the only tire that said it was made in USA and they don't make bike tires). Cost makes no difference in where the tire comes from. Michelin, Uniroyal, and BF Goodrich were all Israel or Asian made, all Goodyear tires were marked China, as were most others. there were a few Korea and Taiwan branded tires. I also highly doubt the 'Goodyear' branded tires in Walmart have anything to do with Goodyear other than the name.

A few shops here offer Nitrogen fill for your tires, the price ranges from $45 to $90.  One RV dealer makes a big deal about the fact that they only sell tire/rim assemblies filled with nitrogen. 

I've never seen or heard of any of the bike shops offering nitrogen for bike tires. 
For what they charge for nitrogen, putting it into a tube that you know will loose pressure over time is a waste of money. 

We use nitrogen at work, its delivered in T size tanks, (330cf). They pay $109 for each refill. That price has more than doubled in the past year from just over $48 per tank.

None of which explains why tubes from 1950 hold air for years, while brand new tubes go dead flat in a few month and loose enough pressure to not be ridable in a few weeks.

If I can find Schwalbe tubes here, I'll give a pair a try but I mostly use 26x1 3/8" tubes and none of the local shops carry them. 
Most shops here don't even carry tires for the bikes they sell now let alone tires for bikes over 30 years old. The only sources I see for Schwalbe tubes are over seas making the total cost for the two listed above for me here $34 for two tubes. That's not acceptable. I can buy full size automobile size tubes for $12 each that don't leak that are made in Korea. Some brands though have started the same thing with automotive tubes. They list tubes in large and small sizes in each rim diameter. 
such as R12/13" and R13/14" (one larger 12" tires and small 13" sizes, the other for large 13" and smaller 14" sizes). What you end up with is a tube that's either too small or too large that don't fit either size well. 

Maybe I need to start buying old bikes for tires and tubes that don't leak. It seems that anything made in recent years are junk


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## rustndust (Feb 12, 2022)

Here's a few pics that put the newer tube size in perspective. 



The tire on the rim is an original Raleigh tire/tube from 1977, the rim is a Sturmey Archer 26x1 3/8" 
The tire is inflated to about 40 psi, the tube is inflated to the point where it just holds its shape, maybe a 2 or 3 psi or so.
Getting it to fit into a tire while your installing it is tough the tube tries to lay flat on the rim when its stretched around the rim.
Inflated as shown in the pic, its got too much air in it to install in a tire.



The size issue is even worse with Schwinn S5/S6 rims which are 7mm larger in diameter. 
The small diameter of the newer tube itself also means that when in a 37x590 tire its already double its 
original diameter before even filling the inside of the tire. The tube is stretched both around the rim, and 
in its overall diameter. 
The weight alone shows how much rubber they're saving making undersized tubes to fit all sizes. 
There's also no reason for this size to be undersized, they only fit two tire sizes, 35/37-590 and 37-597, 
and their small for either size. I'm almost wondering if they're not selling the same tube for 24" and 26" by 1 3/8".
The tubes are small enough to probably work in a 24" tire. but in those they're a bit too big and end up folded over inside the tire.


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## bloo (Feb 12, 2022)

Any fold, even a tiny one will be a quick failure. That is why the old ones were _slightly _undersize when new, for easier mounting. After they have been in a tire for years they are the same size as a tire. Standard procedure was the same as a car with inner tubes. Use talc, remove the valve, pump the tire up enough for the tube and bead to adjust themselves, and then let the air back out 2 or 3 times. That would get the wrinkles out unless the tube was actually oversize. In that case you were screwed. Talc is highly discouraged today. Corn starch might be a good substitute.


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## dnc1 (Feb 13, 2022)

Modern rubber just doesn't hold air very well or for as long but you do get what you pay for, especially with tubular tyres that I have on many bikes. 
Modern tubes are much thinner wall thickness and made of vastly different synthetic compounds to vintage ones as has been stated above; but they are also lighter, and any reduction  in wheel weight helps tired old legs like mine.

But at the end of the day, how long does it take to pump a bicycle tyre up?

I check tyres and use a track pump before every ride, a maximum of maybe two minutes every time, even when inflating tubs up to 130psi.

I think it's a small price to pay for the enjoyment of using a bicycle.


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## rustndust (Feb 13, 2022)

I've taken quite a few old bikes apart and found 26x1 3/8" tires with 27" tubes stuffed in them, with a huge fold at some point, they were most likely that way for years before I got them. 

Pumping up every bike tire in the fleet every few weeks is a pain, it becomes a day long ordeal. 
With some Schwinn rims, getting the tire to seat all the way around is also a pain, some take multiple inflate/deflate steps to get the tire to finally pop up on the rim properly. I fought with one for two hours the other day. It took nearly 100psi and countless tries to get a Kenda tire to fit right on an older S5 Schwinn rim. It took taking off both wheels to fiddle with the tires. The tubes and tires on that bike are only two years old, I pumped them up about 60 days ago, both were completely flat. Two brand new Kenda tires, two brand new Sunlite thorn resistant tubes that came out of the box inked the same as Kenda tubes. 
I did try a pair of Continental tubes once in 27" but they leaked out faster than any of the cheap tubes. I think the tubes in my two road bikes are both original from the late 70's, both hold reasonably well but I still need to pump them before every ride.


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## Oilit (Feb 13, 2022)

rustndust said:


> I've got a bag of vintage stainless steel valve caps that are branded Schrader on the bag. Those have a soft rubber insert in the top of the cap. I think their actually meant for an industrial application as they came from a closed HVAC supplier where I bought a bunch of shelving a number of years ago.
> 
> I've tried inflating the tubes and putting them in water but they never show any leaks, but they won't hold air long term.
> A few years ago I bought a 500 pack of tire valve cores and valve caps from a tire supplier locally. The valve cores and caps were cheap, less than $5 in all. They get used more on old tubes than new tubes.
> ...



There's enough difference in size that I'd guess your new "26" inch tube was actually a mis-stamped "24". You have to remember the Chinese don't use inches, it might as well be Greek to them!


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## 3-speeder (Feb 13, 2022)

I get tired of putting new tubes on to a rehabbed bike only to see them going flat in days.  I bought two Raleighs from the 60's over the Thanksgiving holiday and both bikes had fully inflated tires.  I had to let the air out in order to look at the insides of the rims. When I got them home I re-inflated them.  They are still holding air today in their old tubes and tires.

It makes it hard to feel good about flipping a bike that you know has slowly leaking tubes, considering you had put brand new ones in it, especially when you're advertising it as "new tubes and tires".


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## razinhellcustomz (Feb 13, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> Modern rubber just doesn't hold air very well or for as long but you do get what you pay for, especially with tubular tyres that I have on many bikes.
> Modern tubes are much thinner wall thickness and made of vastly different synthetic compounds to vintage ones as has been stated above; but they are also lighter, and any reduction  in wheel weight helps tired old legs like mine.
> 
> But at the end of the day, how long does it take to pump a bicycle tyre up?
> ...



No wonder it takes so long if your pumping up "TUBS"? Ha!! HAAA!!.


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## razinhellcustomz (Feb 13, 2022)

Oilit said:


> There's enough difference in size that I'd guess your new "26" inch tube was actually a mis-stamped "24". You have to remember the Chinese don't use inches, it might as well be Greek to them!



Hey Oilit, It's not greek to them, it's actually 🤓 to them!!!


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Feb 13, 2022)

just went and squeezed 20 tubes on my bikes and only one was flat, because it went flat right after a ride and have not fixed it. most were at ridable pressure, but I pump them up every time I ride if it has been a while. I have a combination of new Goodyear and Bell tubes in most of my tires, though a couple still have whatever tube they had when I bought the bike.


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## dnc1 (Feb 13, 2022)

razinhellcustomz said:


> No wonder it takes so long if your pumping up "TUBS"? Ha!! HAAA!!.



Apologies for using the common slang term for tubular tyres ("singletubes") as used by most people that have them,  not just us Brits.
One of the problems of speaking the same language,  but slightly differently I guess,  LOL.


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## rustndust (Feb 13, 2022)

The 24" theory doesn't work either, I dug out a 24x1 3/8" wheel, ISO 547, and the newer tube is way big to fit that size.  I don't have any 24x1 3/8" tubes here to compare to though.
I think 547 is the largest of the 24" sizes, I believe this rim is from an adult trike, the rim is marked 24x1 1/4 - 24x1 3/8 ISO 547 Japan.


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## PapaPengin (Feb 13, 2022)

I was listening in on a CABDA workshop (remotely during Covid 2020) and they said that 6psi loss per week in tubes today is the new standard. Everything is just made too cheaply now. Makes me sick!


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## fattyre (Feb 14, 2022)

My tires went flat in the time it took to read all this.


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## falconer (Feb 14, 2022)

Recently removed this from something, good tube!


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## razinhellcustomz (Feb 14, 2022)

falconer said:


> Recently removed this from something, good tube!
> 
> View attachment 1570372
> 
> View attachment 1570373



Looks to be an old Firestone war time tube.. Iv'e only seen a hand full of these ,so looks to be a RARE find.. Good tubes that still holds air... Cool beans.. 😎


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## Drosentreter (Feb 14, 2022)

razinhellcustomz said:


> I heard some where that air molecules break down over time and that older  tubes that have thicker rubber hold the air longer than thin wall tubes so maybe this theory has some merit...



I would have to agree. Have a 1944 Chevy fire truck on original BF Goodrich Tires, and had one bad tube when I first got it fired up. Would hold air for a day or 2 and then would be down a little. Decided to take all of the wheels apart and clean the rims so I knew that it wouldn’t be a problem down the road. All 6 original tubes were at least 3 times as thick and heavy as the new one. To quote everyone for the past 30ish years “They don’t make em like they used to”


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## razinhellcustomz (Feb 14, 2022)

Drosentreter said:


> I would have to agree. Have a 1944 Chevy fire truck on original BF Goodrich Tires, and had one bad tube when I first got it fired up. Would hold air for a day or 2 and then would be down a little. Decided to take all of the wheels apart and clean the rims so I knew that it wouldn’t be a problem down the road. All 6 original tubes were at least 3 times as thick and heavy as the new one. To quote everyone for the past 30ish years “They don’t make em like they used to”



I found an old Ford tire and wheel in a junk yard once for my 68 F100 truck that i used for a spare and it kept going flat, so i broke down the tire and found a Goodyear tube from the 60's and put a Bowes Seal Fast patch on it that i found in an old garage and put back together and it held air... Good tubes... 😝


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## cyclingday (Feb 16, 2022)

Ahh!
The good old days.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Feb 16, 2022)

here you go, you guys can borrow mine.


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## Nashman (Feb 16, 2022)

bobcycles said:


> Like new tires, I refuse to ride on new tubes...a month or so? out of the box?  flat.
> I save tubes that were holding air on orig bikes, old USA made tires..have a ton
> of them.  way better insurance policy than most new tubes I've wasted money on.
> I refuse to ride on 'new' (china or where ever) repop tires mainly in keeping with
> ...



*I agree 100%.* I prefer to use vintage tubes ( even if patched) where I can.
On appliances I agree also. We have a 1970's vintage gas dryer in our basement/man cave bathroom and an equally vintage frig in the main room that just keeps rocking. The belt went last year on the dryer so I called an "old school" appliance repair place/they sell new units too. Dude who came here has been repairing over 40 years. Big guy to get his arms/body into the job!.Went to the trade right after high school.

I usually leave them alone to do their trade, but offer to help if they need. He welcomed another set of arms. He ( it wasn't easy because it's in the back of the drum/very little arm room/need to install by braille) struggled to get his arms in the back. He replaced the guides too. He looked at the belt.....hmnnnn? Discontinued. He might have one in his truck or garage at home. He ran the number. Discontinued again. He went to his truck, found the exact belt/with a number change up. BINGO!! Amazing. Under a $$hun for the service call and part. I told the dude he was a hero and I admire the work ethic and history he provides. It should last another 50 years!


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Feb 16, 2022)

the air must be thicker here in the Bay Area. that's why it does not sneak out of my tubes.  🙂


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## Nashman (Feb 16, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> Apologies for using the common slang term for tubular tyres ("singletubes") as used by most people that have them,  not just us Brits.
> One of the problems of speaking the same language,  but slightly differently I guess,  LOL.



I'm a Canuck, so we are in between with our language.


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## A.S.BOLTNUT (Feb 16, 2022)

Apparently you can buy tires that hold air , I've often seen post here and ther where the seller post , Tires still hold air .. 🙄

Rafael


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## dnc1 (Feb 16, 2022)

Nashman said:


> I'm a Canuck, so we are in between with our language.



Somewhere between and also somewhere beyond if you take into account the 'Québécois' element.


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## razinhellcustomz (Feb 16, 2022)

Nashman said:


> I'm a Canuck, so we are in between with our language.



I just bought a bunch of Dominion Royal Canadian made and a couple Firestone tubes from Locomotion Max and boy o boy, these tubes are really THICK rubber.. I do believe these maybe from the 40's -50's and they still have the metal valve stem caps.. Really good quality that i plan on using on my Balloon tire bikes...


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## rustndust (Feb 17, 2022)

It seems that many of the really old tubes faired very well over time, but I did take a few tires off of old bikes that had the old orange/red color tubes melted into the something that resembled chewing gum. I spent the better part of a day trying to melt, scrape, and peel what remained of a pair of tubes from a pair of JC Higgins drop center rims from the late 30's. Since the tires were Allstate, there's a good chance the tubes were original. They were huge size wise, at least what was left of them. It was hard to tell if they just softened up and stretched out though. The tubes were sort of a red/orange color but the valve stem was black rubber. The stuff was melted all down around the spoke nipples too. Once I finally got the spokes loose, I ended up using a wire wheel to get the rest of the tube off the rim. I'm not sure what caused them to melt like that but the tires were just as gummy and sticky. Another bike sitting next to it was the same way. The grips, tires, and tubes were sticky/gummy like the rubber had melted and stayed melted.  The black valve stem portion of the melted tubes was fine though, other than being glued into the rim.


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## dnc1 (Feb 17, 2022)

rustndust said:


> It seems that many of the really old tubes faired very well over time, but I did take a few tires off of old bikes that had the old orange/red color tubes melted into the something that resembled chewing gum. I spent the better part of a day trying to melt, scrape, and peel what remained of a pair of tubes from a pair of JC Higgins drop center rims from the late 30's. Since the tires were Allstate, there's a good chance the tubes were original. They were huge size wise, at least what was left of them. It was hard to tell if they just softened up and stretched out though. The tubes were sort of a red/orange color but the valve stem was black rubber. The stuff was melted all down around the spoke nipples too. Once I finally got the spokes loose, I ended up using a wire wheel to get the rest of the tube off the rim. I'm not sure what caused them to melt like that but the tires were just as gummy and sticky. Another bike sitting next to it was the same way. The grips, tires, and tubes were sticky/gummy like the rubber had melted and stayed melted.  The black valve stem portion of the melted tubes was fine though, other than being glued into the rim.



I wonder if it's something to do with that red pigment that they used back then.
I've noticed it on old French bicycle tubes and tyres. They just turn into a gummy mess.


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## Girlbike (Feb 17, 2022)

Bontrager has treated me alright. The price wasn't too hateful, maybe a buck or or two more than the Goodyear offerings at Walmart's. They' lost about ten pounds since last fall.


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## razinhellcustomz (Feb 17, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> I wonder if it's something to do with that red pigment that they used back then.
> I've noticed it on old French bicycle tubes and tyres. They just turn into a gummy mess.



What's really cool about those Dominion tubes is they are a reddish brown color with the black valve stems with the metal caps that would probably out last these new JUNK ones they made now days by a HUNDRED years..


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## NormP (Mar 12, 2022)

Modern bikes seldom use tubes except low end bikes. Tubeless now. You could remove the valve stem, inject 4 ounces of Stans
's tubeless into the tube, put the valve back in, pump it up, slosh it around a bit and it should hold for a long time and resist getting flats.
On a different note, Check tire pressure before every ride and always bring a mini pump or Co2 filler and a patch kit.

I actually used Stan's on a single tube tire to fix a leaking tire/tube.


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## NormP (Mar 12, 2022)

I also read somewhere there are only 4 companies that make tubes. Not sure if that is true or not but the thorn proof ones are thicker and anything that says "race" is super light and fails quickly.


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## bloo (Mar 12, 2022)

NormP said:


> Modern bikes seldom use tubes except low end bikes. Tubeless now. You could remove the valve stem, inject 4 ounces of Stans
> 's tubeless into the tube, put the valve back in, pump it up, slosh it around a bit and it should hold for a long time and resist getting flats.
> On a different note, Check tire pressure before every ride and always bring a mini pump or Co2 filler and a patch kit.
> 
> I actually used Stan's on a single tube tire to fix a leaking tire/tube.




I'm using Stans in the tubes on one of my bikes as defense against goatheads. Oddly it doesn't seem to help with the problem the problem that stared this thread, the slow leakage. That bike seeps air just as fast as all the others, and was doing so before it ever hit the road.


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## Fritz Katzenjammer (Mar 12, 2022)

I use Michelin Airstop tubes on my bicycles and motorcycles, because they are thick as hell and I got sick of pumping up the junk that most other tubes seem to be.

most dealers seemed surprised that you want to take the time to order more expensive tubes but they’re worth it.

especially if you’ve ever pushed a motorcycle home on a 90 degree day because an inner tube has failed.


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## J-wagon (Mar 12, 2022)

I still think air leakage more commonly due to impaired valve and next due to thin rubber wall molecular density. If a tube holds air forever, it better quality valve mechanism and wall rubber.


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## NormP (Mar 17, 2022)

I have a war tube from an old Rollfast bike. It weighs a couple pounds and says "war tube" on it.


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## The Spokemaster (Mar 17, 2022)

Urge your congressman to vote for larger air molecules


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