# G&J Rambler w/ curved crankset



## Jesse McCauley (Oct 2, 2017)

Here's a stumper for you fellow TOC'ers-
Did G&J ever use this crankset in a factory capacity or was this an aftermarket addition to the frame?

I only recall seeing these cranks advertised on Ide bikes but I'm always learning!



















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## catfish (Oct 2, 2017)

Those are very cool!


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## catfish (Oct 2, 2017)




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## corbettclassics (Oct 2, 2017)

Luthy had curved crank arms.  I have a few pictures of that.


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## mongeese (Oct 2, 2017)

Sure looks like a G&J chainwheel and connection- are the arms seperated from the sprocket star with common connection?


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## lgrinnings (Oct 2, 2017)

corbettclassics said:


> Luthy had curved crank arms.  I have a few pictures of that.




The Luthy arms are double curved I believe. My dad has one.

-Lester


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## gtdohn (Oct 2, 2017)

I had an Ide and they looked just like that. My Ide was a 3 piece crank, so I'm actually leaning toward this being original ?


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## Jesse McCauley (Oct 2, 2017)

This Ide advert seems to shed a different light on the hardware though, not cottered and different bolt pattern but the bend of the arms is the same it seems?


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## mongeese (Oct 2, 2017)

I do not have proof but I think original G&J crank.


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## Jesse McCauley (Oct 2, 2017)

So this one is cottered but I'm told the chainbolt pattern & wheel is original G&J hardware, and the arms are factory set to that chainwheel setup so I'm thinking G&J must have dabbled in the same sexy curvy tech!


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## corbettclassics (Oct 2, 2017)

Here's the IDE - made to fit any bicycle!







Jesse McCauley said:


> So this one is cottered but I'm told the chainbolt pattern & wheel is original G&J hardware, and the arms are factory set to that chainwheel setup so I'm thinking G&J must have dabbled in the same sexy curvy tech!
> 
> View attachment 686047



This was the other ad I had Jesse but not at home to post it. I believe I have another one as well and will look for it tonight.


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## mongeese (Oct 2, 2017)

So G&J and so cool- so so cool.


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## carlitos60 (Oct 2, 2017)

My 2 Cents,,,,,Not an Original G&J Product; BUT, Was Made for G&J as an Experimental Trial Basis on the Model 26 Racer!!!
OR, Someone With Great Metal Working Skills Bent Them!!!


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## oldspoke (Oct 2, 2017)

Hello All

This style was popular in France in the 30's as well.

Chandez Cranks - http://bikeville.blogspot.com/2011/04/chandez-curved-cranks.html   - Thank You Via in Pa

Or this cycle equipped - http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/1930s/1931-2/21791-2/  - Thank You Colin in the UK

G


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## Jesse McCauley (Oct 3, 2017)

This bike really is a stumper, seems plausible that a G&J patron commissioned IDE to cast a one off-crankset designed for application with a G&J chainwheel & bottom bracket. IF that is the case, could be a truly unique bicycle! 

Sidenote- my 1000 Caber talkin message! I think I'll celebrate with a trip to Hershey!


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## Craig Allen (Oct 3, 2017)

Jesse, I looked through all of my G&J Rambler catalogs and they offered no options for cranks other than a 7-1/4" long throw. Just out of curiosity, what is the overall length of your cranks? I agree with the previous point that these cranks were probably bent after market. I seriously doubt G&J offered them like this unless they had patent rights to manufacture. Ide would have been all over them in lawsuits.


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## Jesse McCauley (Oct 3, 2017)

Craig Allen said:


> Jesse, I looked through all of my G&J Rambler catalogs and they offered no options for cranks other than a 7-1/4" long throw. Just out of curiosity, what is the overall length of your cranks? I agree with the previous point that these cranks were probably bent after market. I seriously doubt G&J offered them like this unless they had patent rights to manufacture. Ide would have been all over them in lawsuits.




Craig I'm conflicted, the lawsuit issue is obviously a real concern for the 19th c bicycle market but Ide seems to offer the service of furnishing curved cranks, albeit opposite curve, to suit any bicycle as per Bill's ad. 
The bends are so clean I can't imagine it was "amateurly" done but catalogs so rarely lie in this way.

It's a stumper! More detailed pics to come 


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## Craig Allen (Oct 3, 2017)

I understand the point you are making, but some of us are not amateurs but gifted professional master machinists. There were plenty of gifted master machinists 100+ years ago who could easily have made it look factory manufactured. I'm not trying to dogmatically state that it was bent after market, as there are always other possibilities, merely it would seem the most likely scenario based on G&J catalog information. It is entirely possible that Ide bent these cranks, but I doubt G&J did. Maybe some young fellow wanted these cranks for racing thinking they would provide more torque for that last spurt near the finish line.


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## fat tire trader (Oct 3, 2017)

Jesse McCauley said:


> Here's a stumper for you fellow TOC'ers-
> Did G&J ever use this crankset in a factory capacity or was this an aftermarket addition to the frame?
> 
> I only recall seeing these cranks advertised on Ide bikes but I'm always learning!
> ...



Hi Jesse,
Like I told you on FB, the cranks on your G&J are curved in the oposite direction that the Ide cranks are curved. The Ide theory is that under heavy forces, the cranks become longer, thus providing more leverage.
Chris


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## bikewhorder (Oct 3, 2017)

fat tire trader said:


> Hi Jesse,
> Like I told you on FB, the cranks on your G&J are curved in the oposite direction that the Ide cranks are curved. The Ide theory is that under heavy forces, the cranks become longer, thus providing more leverage.
> Chris



That seems theoretically plausible but the way these are curved would offer no benefits that I can see other than possibly shock absorption.


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## gtdohn (Oct 3, 2017)

If someone wanted the "style of the day" , any good blacksmith could reproduce the curve using the original arms.


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## carlitos60 (Oct 3, 2017)

gtdohn said:


> If someone wanted the "style of the day" , any good blacksmith could reproduce the curve using the original arms.




_*Who Said It 1st???*_
My 2 Cents,,,,,Not an Original G&J Product; BUT, Was Made for G&J as an Experimental Trial Basis on the Model 26 Racer!!!
OR, Someone With Great Metal Working Skills Bent Them!!!


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## filmonger (Oct 14, 2017)




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## filmonger (Oct 14, 2017)

Dec 1898...





1898





Jan 1899





Orig. Ide Patent


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## filmonger (Oct 14, 2017)

Interesting to speculate on this one..... I'd say due to the issues with Ide at the time - these may have been Ide related ( Just speculation ). They sold off much of the machinery - Possibly G & J bought some of it or hired a former Ide employee. To avoid a Patent issue they reversed the curve pattern ( ? ). Maybe the transition Ide factory operation jobbed this out?


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