# What is a fair price for this 52 All origional Phantom



## bikeguy (Jun 5, 2014)

All horn internals excellent condition, new internals for front light lens perfect Schwinn script NOS OEM 50's Schwinn, rear lite internals rusty but complete with grounding wire, recovered by Bailey seat including orig tabs, rear reflector is new NOS 50's Schwinn, Completely services and all bearings and moving parts cleaned and lubed, even the chain (Diamond) was wire brush scrubbed soaked hot tanked then soaked in oil. Fenders orig with dents and all excellent hardware. Tank great, rack slight bend, chaion guard normal wear and tear for 62 -3 year old bike. Replacement typhoon tires and tubes, o orig s2 rims Schwinn script front hum and New depature rear hub. New clutch pack in new departure, new bearings and axle (long version for the speedo to allow lock nuts on the bearing cones) in front hub all NOS Schwinn 50's. Replacement used 50's oval grips here not installed yet.

It rides extremely smooth and stops very well. even the speedo which was installed when the bike was new) is still working perfectly.

Everything done to the bike to service and rebuild it was done to make it 100% orig and correct in every way except the tires and tubes.

The paint is chipped and scratched but shines nicely, the fenders are shiney with dents and minor pits, it could use an upgrade to a new hd whizzer front spring but it is 100% right now as it sits

The front fork locks and the key comes out very smoothly also.


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## bikeguy (Jun 5, 2014)

here is the speedometer with the orig mileage.





It even has orig wear tabs on the recovered seat


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## rhenning (Jun 5, 2014)

Not sure about price but would bet the seat has been replaced with one from the Centenial Phantoms.  Roger


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## bikeguy (Jun 5, 2014)

rhenning said:


> Not sure about price but would bet the seat has been replaced with one from the Centenial Phantoms.  Roger




You would lose the bet, it is the orig frame and springs recovered/repaired by Mr Bailey (sp) 

There are no reproduction parts on the bike anywhere. It was just completely disassembled, cleaned, low grit rubbed, waxed, and 100% overhauled. Even the screws that were bad were replaced by EUC used items from orig 50's Schwinns.


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## 41OLDSTEED (Jun 6, 2014)

*Nice 52 Phantom*

Hey ! Really Nice Phantom...I Been watching The Prices on these the Last Few years and Prices have Gone Down sadly...Not Sure Why...Maybe the Sluggish Economy or Too Many Schwinn Reproductions...I Would Venture to say your Bike Would sell for About $1200-$1500 on a Good Day...Up or Down a Little...Alot of these Original Phantoms Been Getting Parted out Too...Brings more $$$ in Parts I Guess...Good Luck...


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## Freqman1 (Jun 6, 2014)

That evaluation seems in line with current market conditions to me. V/r Shawn


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## dfa242 (Jun 6, 2014)

I'm not qualified to offer pricing advice, but I must say you did a really nice job cleaning that up - beautiful bike.


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## bikeguy (Jun 6, 2014)

41OLDSTEED said:


> Hey ! Really Nice Phantom...I Been watching The Prices on these the Last Few years and Prices have Gone Down sadly...Not Sure Why...Maybe the Sluggish Economy or Too Many Schwinn Reproductions...I Would Venture to say your Bike Would sell for About $1200-$1500 on a Good Day...Up or Down a Little...Alot of these Original Phantoms Been Getting Parted out Too...Brings more $$$ in Parts I Guess...Good Luck...





Owner was offered more than this, BEFORE it was rebuilt, by a large collector. I felt he was trying to low ball the owner.

I reread the other thread about Phantoms' valuation and this bike is at least a 1000% better than the one worth "$800" from f71.


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## petritl (Jun 6, 2014)

The is one way to get the fair market value. Take a bunch of really nice pictures and list it on eBay with a 500.00 starting price and unreasonably high reserve.


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## Freqman1 (Jun 6, 2014)

bikeguy said:


> Owner was offered more than this, BEFORE it was rebuilt, by a large collector. I felt he was trying to low ball the owner.
> 
> I reread the other thread about Phantoms' valuation and this bike is at least a 1000% better than the one worth "$800" from f71.




I've bought and sold Phantoms in this condition or better in the price range given. My experience is based on actual sales. V/r Shawn


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## vincev (Jun 6, 2014)

I would say $1400 would not be out of line.


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## old hotrod (Jun 6, 2014)

bikeguy said:


> Owner was offered more than this, BEFORE it was rebuilt, by a large collector. I felt he was trying to low ball the owner.
> 
> I reread the other thread about Phantoms' valuation and this bike is at least a 1000% better than the one worth "$800" from f71.




Owner should have sold it then...Shawn is spot on with current values...Phantoms in +- condition sell for 800-1200 max in my area, So Cal. If it had a drum brake, it would fetch a litlle more, 1200-1400 max...but there is not much demand.  I saw a mint green phantom in much, much better condition than this one work like hell to get 1000, had been asking 1200 and no takers so think what you will, you asked for value...


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## bikeguy (Jun 7, 2014)

Thanks guys I seem to be getting different pricing levels from potential buyers and "professional" sellers, I know that is normal. One mistake was made in the description, this is a very early 51, if that makes that much difference. That was one of primary factors in the offer the man made for it.

If that green bike had been brought to our attention it would have sold quicker. We are still looking for a nice one.

This thread seems to point out, to me, the pricing in the NE is a little higher than the rest of the country, even CA sometimes.


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## old hotrod (Jun 7, 2014)

That's funny because to me, it shows how prices from 10-20 years ago are still influencing sales today. The bike was worth more, before ebay, before the repops and before the flood of bad restos...and the prices from people here directly reflect todays prices, not the past and not just because this is a collector site. I didn't hear any serious offers to buy it, I read legitimate values from experienced sellers that have recently sold bikes as you had requested, whether you want to agree or not. As been already stated, put it on e$ay and see what it is worth...


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## scrubbinrims (Jun 7, 2014)

Frankly, I can not understand why the most common balloon tire bicycle ever made, similar to countless Schwinn canti frame iterations, is post-war, and has been repopped in whole and parts can break 1k.
Consider yourself lucky there is a strong market for whatcha got.
Chris


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## Nickinator (Jun 7, 2014)

41OLDSTEED said:


> ...I Would Venture to say your Bike Would sell for About $1200-$1500 on a Good Day...Up or Down a Little...




Ditto, that's what we've been seeing over the last year or so for similar condition bikes, on a good day.

Darcie


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## bikeguy (Jun 7, 2014)

old hotrod said:


> That's funny because to me, it shows how prices from 10-20 years ago are still influencing sales today. The bike was worth more, before ebay, before the repops and before the flood of bad restos...and the prices from people here directly reflect todays prices, not the past and not just because this is a collector site. I didn't hear any serious offers to buy it, I read legitimate values from experienced sellers that have recently sold bikes as you had requested, whether you want to agree or not. As been already stated, put it on e$ay and see what it is worth...





Offers are why PMs and private email addresses are used. I have 2 offers from people here. He is not offering to sell now,  just determine a "fair price" if he ever does decide to sell it.

The current offers sent from here and elsewhere, this week are in line with what he was offered, and higher then the prices "quoted" as value in the thread. That is not unexpected, as most transactions are not made public when he decides to sell to someone. 

He wrote his value number down 3 weeks ago when I started to work on it and the numbers he is being offered and what he wants are $150 different and way off (>$500) from these posted in this thread. As I stated, NE prices seem higher as the potential buyers are monied collectors not resellers.

JFYI
One of the "experienced members here" offered $400 when it was put up for sale late last year, because it was so rusty and dirty....so he kinda hahas as what he gets from most places on the internet. 

After riding it around all afternoon, he may never sell it, now. Thanks for all the input.


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## PCHiggin (Jun 8, 2014)

I sold a restored '51 Red Phantom with a couple years of riding wear for $2700 18 years ago.I did pretty good @ the time. Those bikes are MORE COMMON now do to the I-net,as posted above.They are a first generation collectable and most of  the guys that really drove up the prices in the first place are dead or  too old and are no longer interested. They just  DONT COMMAND the money they used to.I would  recommend your friend take that offer if he really was interested in selling.My $.02


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## Freqman1 (Jun 8, 2014)

PCHiggin said:


> I sold a restored '51 Red Phantom with a couple years of riding wear for $2700 18 years ago.I did pretty good @ the time. Those bikes are MORE COMMON now do to the I-net,as posted above.They are a first generation collectable and most of  the guys that really drove up the prices in the first place are dead or  too old and are no longer interested. They just  DONT COMMAND the money they used to.I would  recommend your friend take that offer if he really was interested in selling.My $.02




Don't get me wrong--I like Phantoms. Phantoms are still pretty popular the problem is there are a lot of them. I can buy an original Phantom just about any day of the week. If he got a solid offer above $1500 for the bike and he ever had any inclination of selling he shoulda took the money. It kinda gets me when people ask for a valuation but when they don't hear the number they wanted they imply or accuse people of low balling. Hell if you think the value of that Phantom is $2k more power to ya but I think you'll wait a good while before someone bites on that one. V/r Shawn


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## bikeguy (Jun 8, 2014)

I think he is going to trade it for a HK P7M13 NIB w/Trijicon nite sites. He collects those too. 

Those are supposed to be worth more than $2500 and nobody has to bite on anything.


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## Freqman1 (Jun 8, 2014)

I just hope the guy he trades for the gun doesn't come on here saying something like "hey I just traded a $2500 gun for this bike. Do you think I got a good deal?" V/r Shawn


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## jracerx426 (Jun 8, 2014)

*Selling?*

Are you selling this?  I am interested.   If you are, email me at jracerx426@gmail.com.


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## bikeguy (Jun 9, 2014)

Freqman1 said:


> I just hope the guy he trades for the gun doesn't come on here saying something like "hey I just traded a $2500 gun for this bike. Do you think I got a good deal?" V/r Shawn




No he is an old established collector FFL holder and got the HK(s) in the early eightys for 750-800 so he will be happy also....sarge


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## bikeguy (Jun 10, 2014)

Looks like a "resto mod" is testing the water as this thread is read......most of that bike is 95 parts according to the dealer that "resto modded" it. 

They burned the guy real good on what they charged for those 95 nos parts and $85 per hr labor to "do it up". 

HE SHOULD HAVE ABANDONED IT AND LET THEM SELL IT....NOW HE IS GOING TO GET BURNED AGAIN...

(A big hardy har har to those who have the testicles to charge that much and not expect to get shot.)


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## bikeguy (Jun 16, 2014)

This will add a couple of serious bucks to its value...nos spokes and nipples lacing a complete perfect condition Schwinn forebrake system into the orig S2 rim after extensive tweaking and straightening. 












Rides now even more like a dream ........


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## sfhschwinn (Jun 17, 2014)

i see why some value this about 1200 but a NOS 95 green phantom sold for over $3000 and restored ones sold for about $1000-1500. I would say a fully original one in excellent condition should be around $2500-3000. My 49' which is all original but needs the fenders rechromed and seat recovered would be in the $2000- 3000 range after the crank and lock are replace with originals and rechromed.


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## cyberpaull (Jun 17, 2014)

*Not all original*

I have never seen a all original vintage Phantom. NEVER. Every Phantom I have ever seen had a replacement part in one form or another. A Phantom that has been restored is far from original also.


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## Freqman1 (Jun 17, 2014)

sfhschwinn said:


> i see why some value this about 1200 but a NOS 95 green phantom sold for over $3000 and restored ones sold for about $1000-1500. I would say a fully original one in excellent condition should be around $2500-3000. My 49' which is all original but needs the fenders rechromed and seat recovered would be in the $2000- 3000 range after the crank and lock are replace with originals and rechromed




Keep telling yourself that but put it on the market and I don't think your expectations will be met. I've been tracking Phantoms pretty close the last few years and have bought and sold them as well. The NOS green you refer to is an anomaly and you can't use that as a benchmark. These conversations kinda remind me of what car guys call "bench racing". You can sit there and shoot the bull all day long but when the green flag drops the bullsh!t stops! V/r Shawn


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## Sped Man (Jun 17, 2014)

Phantom prices are all over the place. Sellers don't know what they have. Some will tell you that it is all original. Then when  you get to their homes you find out that most of the expensive parts are repop. I am afraid to buy one over  the internet because of that. One guy tried selling me a 1954 Phantom that had a 1998 frame! The serial numbers were completely wrong for a 1954. Another guy had an original frame but all the parts were repop. He still wanted a fortune for the bike! I use to own a Phantom. Mine was all tricked out. It looked and ran great. I sold it years ago. After becoming a member on the CABE my eyes were opened to all the other cool bikes manufacturers, besides Schwinn, who created pieces of rolling art.


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## bikeguy (Jun 17, 2014)

It has been my experience that the people who buy to resell anything seem to assign less value sometimes MUCH less, while the true collectors pay fair prices because they are not looking to resell and make a buck (or a few hundred). 

BTW: Nice looking 49, I think you are in the "range" because that is what the owner has been offered for this one.

You should get Mr Bailiey to repad and cover the seat and not overdue it.....I have seen some early 49s with a Persons rear marble reflector and with the large Schwinn glass jobber...both look real nice. 

I only saw and worked on the 40-50s Schwinns thru 58, both on the east coast and west coast, when they were being ridden and boasted about on the streets/sidewalks vrs getting info thru published reference. 

Schwinn would do anything, anyone wanted, to any bike for the cost of the Schwinn parts and published labor rates BEFORE THEY WERE DELIVERED, making them originals.... the more stuff the better the bike....


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## 2jakes (Jun 17, 2014)

cyberpaull said:


> I have never seen a all original vintage Phantom. NEVER. Every Phantom I have ever seen had a replacement part in one form or another. A Phantom that has been restored is far from original also.




In the past...

I have seen a Green Phantom & Western Flyer X-53  all original complete.

In the present...

I have seen & bought a complete all original vintage Red Phantom.... *but...*

tires,saddle,fenders,paint were in need of repair to make it rideable !


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## sfhschwinn (Jun 17, 2014)

bikeguy said:


> It has been my experience that the people who buy to resell anything seem to assign less value sometimes MUCH less, while the true collectors pay fair prices because they are not looking to resell and make a buck (or a few hundred).
> 
> BTW: Nice looking 49, I think you are in the "range" because that is what the owner has been offered for this one.
> 
> ...



thanks for saying how nice my 49 is. I desperately need the seat redone as well as another one for a phantom that I am restoring for a friend. how do I contact Mr Bailiey  for a quote on the job thanks


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## bikeguy (Jul 7, 2014)

In the last month or so 5 early 50's Schwinn Black Phantoms (within a year or 2) have been listed and sold both on craigslist and eBay for from $1650 w/o front brakes to $2350 for one with front brake. One real nice one sold for $2550.00. I talked to all 5 of the sellers and verified these selling prices. 

One lady even was told her husbands 2 bikes would not bring $1500-$1600 total MAX.  She actually sold them and got $3600.......

So it seems the owner/sellers are getting to the "collectors" and avoiding the middlemen. 

These "middlemen/pickers/scrounges/professional resellers etc" buy as low as possible then immediately attempt to resell or breakdown the bikes into parts for resale. 

It has been my experience that these same "people from the previous statement"  are the ones who post on the internet forums the lower pricing ranges for nefarious reasons.


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## Freqman1 (Jul 7, 2014)

bikeguy said:


> ...
> It has been my experience that these same "people from the previous statement"  are the ones who post on the internet forums the lower pricing ranges for nefarious reasons.




I hope you are not lumping me in this category simply because I offered an opinion based on actual experience. I am a true collector and rarely buy anything with the intention of reselling. Again throw it up on Ebay with a $9.99 start bid and we'll see what the value is on a given day. Just a week or so ago a beautiful red Phantom was offered, eventually, with a BIN of $1000 with no takers (local pickup only). Just sayin...V/r Shawn


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## Euphman06 (Jul 7, 2014)

And someone local to me snatched up a real nice red phantom for $200.


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## bikeguy (Jul 7, 2014)

Freqman1 said:


> I hope you are not lumping me in this category simply because I offered an opinion based on actual experience. I am a true collector and rarely buy anything with the intention of reselling. Again throw it up on Ebay with a $9.99 start bid and we'll see what the value is on a given day. Just a week or so ago a beautiful red Phantom was offered, eventually, with a BIN of $1000 with no takers (local pickup only). Just sayin...V/r Shawn




Did you see the Red Phantom on eBay Jun 27 in nice shape sold for $1650?  

Did you look at that bike (that did not sell) to see why it did not sell? If that seller had offered to take and have it shipped he probably would have sold it.

There are always bikes that are in poorer condition or that are a total PIA to get that do not sell. 

As for that $200 Phantom, yup the buyer was "real fair" with that seller....


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## Curtis68 (Jul 7, 2014)

*Why ask the question in the first place?*

I don't understand why people constantly post "what is it worth" posts and then argue about pricing. It you believe the bike is worth a certain amount and are willing to argue the point don't waste everyone's time putting a post up asking what it worth. You obviously already have your mind made up. Enough said.


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## Euphman06 (Jul 7, 2014)

bikeguy said:


> Did you see the Red Phantom on eBay Jun 27 in nice shape sold for $1650?
> 
> Did you look at that bike (that did not sell) to see why it did not sell? If that seller had offered to take and have it shipped he probably would have sold it.
> 
> ...





It's what the seller felt it was worth in his/her opinion and they were happy selling it for that price. Pricing is all about two parties agreeing to what they feel it's worth. You also have to worry about shill bidders on ebay driving up prices in hopes some sucker swoops in at the end and over pays for something that's not worth it. See the recent post about the torpedo light house painted that "sold" for something like 275 bones. Most likely shill bids by friends.


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## bikeguy (Jul 7, 2014)

"It's what the seller felt it was worth in his/her opinion and they were happy selling it for that price."

Here is an example of how I do business to stay in business. 

I had a very nice older person bring in some $50 US gold coins wanting to sell them. She showed me that they were 50 dollars as written on the coin and would not accept any less.  I did not give her $50 I explained they were 1 OZ gold coins and that I would give her 85% of what gold was selling for at the time (over $1450 per coin) and sell them on the open market.

That is honest dealing, not accepting what the seller thinks is fair, if they are unaware of the value.

Since then she has sent me 30-40 customers to sell me gold and silver.

The bike in PA that did not sell for 1K BIN had many many problems and was not worth 1K. I sent someone to look it over and the seller did not have the time to show it to him....nefarious ????


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## Euphman06 (Jul 7, 2014)

bikeguy said:


> "It's what the seller felt it was worth in his/her opinion and they were happy selling it for that price."
> 
> Here is an example of how I do business to stay in business.
> 
> ...





Gotcha.... did the bike sell yet?


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## Euphman06 (Jul 7, 2014)

Euphman06 said:


> Gotcha.... did the bike sell yet?




I read back.. traded it for a bunch of guns. Oh well, I guess we'll never know the value of a Phantom now


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## bikeguy (Jul 8, 2014)

No it did not sell, the bike pictured is not for sale.


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## videoranger (Jul 8, 2014)

I've seen over the years various attempts to print "Blue Book" values for antique and collectable bikes, cars and motorcycles that cannot predict "market" or sale prices  due to the variation in perceived condition, sale venue, bidding competition, etc.  These forum postings can help establish the range of prices recently or historically realized, but it becomes very noticable that a lot of factors influence the sale prices beside condition and desirability. Some folks like to be as fair as they can to both themselves and the other party to establish a "fair price" and this is a good practice. Letting someone know when they might be offering an item for sale at an unusually low price to be fair is a good ethical practice and it can be tempting not to say anything. This also works the other way when selling an item for a unusually high price because the buyer is a novice. Wheeling and dealing can also be like a poker game and players don't like to show their hand. Asking for a fair price appraisal depends on many factors that can cause some pretty big discrepencies in the responses from members of a forum like this.  A particular bike like the Phantom mentioned in the inquiry could bring a price range from maybe $1000 to $1600 on average (throwing out uncommonly high and low prices) but that is just my guess based on information that is second hand from the internet. Bikeman and Shawn and others have offered some good info based on their experience, but actual milage may vary.


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## bikeguy (Jul 8, 2014)

I agree with your statements the ones who trade fairly both ways always come out ahead in the long run. 

Since the first pictures were taken the fore brake system from a same year bike was laced into the orig rim with NOS spokes then installed on the bike. 

That increased the value of it more than anything else he could have done to it and he is now looking for a same year mate for it...thus asking values for the purpose of making reasonable offers.


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