# 1910'ish Unknown Manufacturer...



## F4iGuy (Jun 5, 2011)

For those of you that may not be on bikeforums.net....I bought this bike back in January while on a trip to see family in MI. I drove 3 hours to the other side of the state to pick up this gem of history and couldn't believe my eyes! I believe this to be around a 1910, unfortunately there are two empty post holes on the front of the head tube and no badge in sight. However in one end of the handlebars was a small piece of paper which appears to be a corner off of a receipt and it's penciled in 1910, the words "Recieved", and
"Gruger & Son
MFR of
BRUSHES,
Mic"

Last month i finally had the chance to pull this frame back off the rack last night. Back in January i had pulled the seat and seat post out of the seat tube...I hung the bike upside down for a few months and when i retrieved the frame from the storage racks...I found another piece of newspaper partially protruding from the seat tube. This newly found piece of newspaper appears to be from a Detroit area newspaper and references Governor Osborn.
 Osborn served as official governor of Michigan from 1911 - 1913, so it's interesting in finding and possibly dating this bike a bit more.
Another part of this paper(not covered in grease) mentions the many homeless children in Oscoda and Au Sable after the fire. In researching this I was able to find that on June 11, 1911; there was a huge fire that completely engulfed both Au Sable and Oscoda, MI. http://www3.gendisasters.com/michiga...-fire-jul-1911

The wood rims are shot, both hubs turn but need to be rebuilt, the pedals need to be rebuilt or replaced. The forks turn without any amount of grinding. The crank easily turns however i would like to pull it apart and make sure she's street worthy. But there is a very strange large square bolt hole that I cant find a tool to fit it. I'm pretty much set on ordering up a new pair of wood rims/ rebuilding the hubs and riding it with it's current paint/patina.


----------



## F4iGuy (Jun 5, 2011)

A few more pictures...


----------



## 66TigerCat (Jun 5, 2011)

Can you post a few more pics ? Especially the fork crown, seat stay area and head tube. From the pics you posted it looks an awful lot like an Orient.

Jim


----------



## F4iGuy (Jun 5, 2011)

Sure! I hope these help.


----------



## F4iGuy (Jun 5, 2011)

Orient?? I do see the resemblance though the only picture i was able to pull up of an Orient was on a poster...
I hope some of these pictures help and thanks for your help thus far!


66TigerCat said:


> Can you post a few more pics ? Especially the fork crown, seat stay area and head tube. From the pics you posted it looks an awful lot like an Orient.
> 
> Jim


----------



## bricycle (Jun 5, 2011)

As far as that square piece you need to un do, you might be able to grind down an old extension drive piece from a socket set to fit the opening...


----------



## 66TigerCat (Jun 5, 2011)

F4iGuy said:


> Orient?? I do see the resemblance though the only picture i was able to pull up of an Orient was on a poster...
> I hope some of these pictures help and thanks for your help thus far!




The fork crown looks correct as does the chainring. I emailed the pics to my buddy who is compiling a database of serial numbers and models, he's been doing this for awhile and he should be able to identify it if it is an Orient. I'll let you know when I hear from him.


----------



## F4iGuy (Jun 5, 2011)

66TigerCat said:


> The fork crown looks correct as does the chainring. I emailed the pics to my buddy who is compiling a database of serial numbers and models, he's been doing this for awhile and he should be able to identify it if it is an Orient. I'll let you know when I hear from him.




T.C. Thank you! I did find a picture of an Orient bike on the Waltham Museum website and yes i agree that my bike looks nearly identical to the one they have on display!
Please let me know if you get any other information. As of now i may be planning a road trip from DC to the Waltham Museum.


----------



## F4iGuy (Jun 5, 2011)

Here's a picture of an Orient bike hanging in the Waltham musuem from http://metzauto.wordpress.com/category/orient-bicycle/

I agree the chainring and fork look exact!


----------



## 66TigerCat (Jun 6, 2011)

There are actually two museums in Waltham that have Orients in their collections. Besides the Waltham Museum there is the Charles River Museum of Industry and Innovation - crmi.org

They don't have any pics of the bikes on their site unfortunately.


----------



## F4iGuy (Jun 6, 2011)

Even better reason to roadtrip up!


----------



## F4iGuy (Jun 9, 2011)

*Recieved an email with more information on this Orient bike today!!*

I joined a Metz-Orient-Waltham yahoo group last night and posted about this bike. This morning i received this email from one of the group members..."Orient bikes were made from 1893 until 1903. We are certain this is the cutoff date. Unless your chain sprocket has a bunch of Os in it as a design it is NOT an Orient. Orient did buy grips and seats from several companies. I have owned several 1898-1903 Orients thru the years. The headbadges are sought after and frequently removed from the head. Hope this helps."

I replied to this gentleman's email and asked if he could help identify my Orient any further with the attached photos...I'll update as soon as i hear more!


----------



## 66TigerCat (Jun 10, 2011)

That was probably my buddy Bob from CRMI. I'm sure he'll contact you shortly. 

You should definitely make a trip up here this summer for Waltham on Wheels -

http://metzauto.wordpress.com/category/orient-bicycle/

CRMI is within walking distance of the Waltham Museum.

Jim


----------



## JOEL (Jun 10, 2011)

This badgeless Triple that belongs to a friend of mine has the same type chainring. Could this be an Orient?

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?11930-Help-ID-this-Triple&highlight=triple


----------



## 66TigerCat (Jun 10, 2011)

Orient didn't use a double top tube/seatstay arrangement like that frame. The crank has circular cut-outs that are similar but the Orient crank used a draw bolt and sleeve that joined the two arms inside the bottom bracket. Campagnolo uses an updated version of that design on their current 11 speed carbon cranks. 

That triple is super cool ! Has your friend cleaned it up and riding it ? 

Jim


----------



## F4iGuy (Jun 10, 2011)

66TigerCat said:


> That was probably my buddy Bob from CRMI. I'm sure he'll contact you shortly.
> 
> You should definitely make a trip up here this summer for Waltham on Wheels -
> 
> ...




Jim,
Haven't heard from Bob yet, but definitely looking forward to it!!! 

That email was from a guy in Florida that has owned several Orient bikes. Here's a followup email from him today after i sent him pictures. "Your bike is a later 1897-1903 model. Earlier ones were slightly cruder in appearance. Definitely Orient! Has correct sprocket and Orient fork. Obviously mens. I don't know anyone that has ever catalogued Orient bikes by serial #. You might join the Wheelmen,as I was a member a decade ago. Several Wheelmen are up on Orient models and years. I will try to dig out a copy of an Orient catalogue and email it to you."

I just saw that Waltham on Wheels planned for the 9th...may have to switch around my plans for that weekend and make a trip up there.
Thanks again for your expertise!
Curtis


----------



## F4iGuy (Jun 10, 2011)

66TigerCat said:


> Orient didn't use a double top tube/seatstay arrangement like that frame. The crank has circular cut-outs that are similar but the Orient crank used a draw bolt and sleeve that joined the two arms inside the bottom bracket. Campagnolo uses an updated version of that design on their current 11 speed carbon cranks.
> 
> That triple is super cool ! Has your friend cleaned it up and riding it ?
> 
> Jim




Jim, 
   Have any idea on how to pull apart the bottom bracket on the Orient? I can't find a tool to fit that large square bolt area.


----------



## 66TigerCat (Jun 11, 2011)

Heard back from Bob, here is what he said.

"Looks like Orient for sure. By SN it's probably a 97 but it is just before they completed the change  from a collet seat clamp to the split tube type. This seems to have the split tube clamp but still hasn't got the top of the stay tubes brazed in as part of the clamp. Also the chainwheel and rear sprocket show that this is not a pitchline chain model. You might want to tell the guy that in this period Orient often had a date on the seat post itself. The other tip off would be to look at the top of the front fork. It will be marked (stamped into the nickel plate) with a trademark notice after the trademark and patents were issued on the design in about 1896."

So there you have it. IDed by two Orient experts. Very cool as they're a pretty rare find, especially complete.

Getting the crank off is another matter. That draw bolt has to be loosened before the crank will come apart which will be quite a feat, it probably hasn't been turned in a hundred years. You'll probably have to make a tool to fit the square hole. Does it need to come apart ?


----------



## bricycle (Jun 11, 2011)

...read post #6 for info on how to remove...


----------



## F4iGuy (Jun 11, 2011)

66TigerCat said:


> Heard back from Bob, here is what he said.
> 
> "Looks like Orient for sure. By SN it's probably a 97 but it is just before they completed the change  from a collet seat clamp to the split tube type. This seems to have the split tube clamp but still hasn't got the top of the stay tubes brazed in as part of the clamp. Also the chainwheel and rear sprocket show that this is not a pitchline chain model. You might want to tell the guy that in this period Orient often had a date on the seat post itself. The other tip off would be to look at the top of the front fork. It will be marked (stamped into the nickel plate) with a trademark notice after the trademark and patents were issued on the design in about 1896."
> 
> ...




Awesome News! Please tell Bob thank you from me!! I am positive the fork was painted over at sometime. I will check the seat post as the nickel on it was pretty clean when i pulled it apart. BTW..Just booked my ticket for Boston on the 8th through the 11th. Also hooked my father up with a ticket from MI to Boston for the Waltham on Wheels event! He's pretty excited..I'm a sucker for bikes because of him! So far i am planning on bringing the Orient with me.


----------



## F4iGuy (Jun 11, 2011)

bricycle said:


> ...read post #6 for info on how to remove...




Sorry I did see that post! Thank you! 

Jim, I'm pondering a restoration project on the Orient. The crank is not in bad shape but if I do restore it, I'll need to take the crank apart to have it nickel plated.


----------



## 66TigerCat (Jun 12, 2011)

F4iGuy said:


> Awesome News! Please tell Bob thank you from me!! I am positive the fork was painted over at sometime. I will check the seat post as the nickel on it was pretty clean when i pulled it apart. BTW..Just booked my ticket for Boston on the 8th through the 11th. Also hooked my father up with a ticket from MI to Boston for the Waltham on Wheels event! He's pretty excited..I'm a sucker for bikes because of him! So far i am planning on bringing the Orient with me.





I sent you a PM.


----------



## ericbaker (Jun 14, 2011)

I went to the hardware store and found a piece of key stock the same size as the hole in my crankset, then just used a wrench on that to loosen the bolts for this crankset off a bike Ive been trying to ID for quite some time. Looks like it may be similar to yours, but i guess if it is an OPrient it should be a different.


----------



## F4iGuy (Jun 14, 2011)

Great Idea!! Yes that definitely is not an Orient chain wheel. Though it looks familiar! Post up a picture of the frame! There are a lot of knowledgeable folks on here!


----------

