# Hawthorne-what year?



## RPO469 (Jan 1, 2021)

Hello all-I am new to the Cabe.  Picked up this Hawthorne about 6 months ago.  It was repainted, so I will redo it to my liking.  I would like to know the year, if anyone can help.  I understand that there is no national serial number listing.  The number under the pedal crank is 84EH and the number on the seat tube is C343742.  See attached pics.  Thanks for any help you can give!


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## BWbiker (Jan 1, 2021)

I think it's a Schneider Built bike. You need someone who knows Schneider numbers and characteristics.


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## rusty.kirkpatrick (Jan 1, 2021)

Pretty sure you turn it around, it'd be a '48.


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## Archie Sturmer (Jan 1, 2021)

Interesting that some “C” prefix sequence numbers are stamped 74EH (for 1947); so perhaps there was a time delay between the bottom bracket being stamped, and the serial sequence number on the seat tube mast being stamped; or another explanation(?).
I would have thought that a 1948 bicycle (84EH) would _normally_ have a “D” prefix to the sequence number.


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## WetDogGraphix (Jan 2, 2021)

RPO469 said:


> Hello all-I am new to the Cabe.  Picked up this Hawthorne about 6 months ago.  It was repainted, so I will redo it to my liking.  I would like to know the year, if anyone can help.  I understand that there is no national serial number listing.  The number under the pedal crank is 84EH and the number on the seat tube is C343742.  See attached pics.  Thanks for any help you can give!
> 
> View attachment 1330905
> 
> ...



Nice bike, but the springer is put together wrong.....here is the right way..









						Dimensions of Rollfast/Hawthorne springer fork rocker plates and bushings? | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

Hi all.  Recently acquired a Rollfast springer fork with the help of this great forum.  Unfortunately, it's missing the rocker plates and bushings.  I have some experience with machine shops and plan to have these parts fabricated.  Would any one mind sharing dimensions of the rocker plates and...




					thecabe.com


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## RPO469 (Jan 2, 2021)

WetDogGraphix said:


> Nice bike, but the springer is put together wrong.....here is the right way..
> 
> 
> 
> ...






WetDogGraphix said:


> Nice bike, but the springer is put together wrong.....here is the right way..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks, but I am confused.  My bike has the rocker plates and bushings.  The bike in the thread you sent doesn't have them and the discussion in the thread shows them as "needed" to be correct.


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## RPO469 (Jan 2, 2021)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Interesting that some “C” prefix sequence numbers are stamped 74EH (for 1947); so perhaps there was a time delay between the bottom bracket being stamped, and the serial sequence number on the seat tube mast being stamped; or another explanation(?).
> I would have thought that a 1948 bicycle (84EH) would normally have a “D” prefix to the sequence number.



Reading some previous posts, I also assumed is a 1948.  I agree with you about the time delay between the stampings.  This was common in the automotive world with engines, parts and chassis, so I would think it makes sense for the bicycle as well.  Thank you!


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## RPO469 (Jan 2, 2021)

BWbiker said:


> I think it's a Schneider Built bike. You need someone who knows Schneider numbers and characteristics.



I assumed it was a Cleveland Welding Company bike.  Is there a way to tell which manufacturer made it other than the numbers?  Thanks for your input!


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## Archie Sturmer (Jan 2, 2021)

The intent of the post above, about the springer assembly, was not about missing parts in your case, but rather the incorrect assembly. The pivot or rocker plates should be on the inside; but are clearly visible on the outside. The link provided has very good exploded parts isometric diagrams depicting the order of the parts assembly. The assembly is challenging, even with all of the correct parts and the information.

Snyder built frames have characteristic joints at the bottom bracket; some call them “*volcanic*” joints.  Also, CWC had heftier rear stays, and the lower chain stays were curved, with a downward loop.  Also, the springer fork is Snyder built; [but that feature may be confusing, as M.Ward at one time (earlier), procured mismatched frames and springer forks].  And there are other details such as the seat post clamp and the forward-facing rear forks ends.


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## WetDogGraphix (Jan 2, 2021)

RPO469 said:


> Thanks, but I am confused.  My bike has the rocker plates and bushings.  The bike in the thread you sent doesn't have them and the discussion in the thread shows them as "needed" to be correct.



You obviously didn't read the whole thread......Go read my post #18....
The rocker plate goes on the inside, not the outside...
My bike came the same way as yours, I had to learn the right way....It is very unstable the way yours is done....
Trust me, it will ride like a dream when put together right.....


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## BWbiker (Jan 2, 2021)

RPO469 said:


> I assumed it was a Cleveland Welding Company bike.  Is there a way to tell which manufacturer made it other than the numbers?  Thanks for your input!



I have been schooled that CWC used a straight top brace, thed one below the seat tube, for the rear fender. Yours has a curved, and the serial numbers don't fit the chart Zenmaster Phil produced. See chart.


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## RPO469 (Jan 2, 2021)

BWbiker said:


> I have been schooled that CWC used a straight top brace, thed one below the seat tube, for the rear fender. Yours has a curved, and the serial numbers don't fit the chart Zenmaster Phil produced. See chart.
> 
> View attachment 1331231



Awesome!  Thank you for the information!


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## RPO469 (Jan 2, 2021)

WetDogGraphix said:


> You obviously didn't read the whole thread......Go read my post #18....
> The rocker plate goes on the inside, not the outside...
> My bike came the same way as yours, I had to learn the right way....It is very unstable the way yours is done....
> Trust me, it will ride like a dream when put together right.....
> ...



Thanks WetDog!  You are right, I didn't scroll all the way down to the sketch of the fork.  Here is the crazy thing....my bike has the rocker plates on the inside and outside both! There are four rocker plates on my bike.  Once I finish it, I will assemble per your instructions, unless somewhere along the line, they used four.  Maybe, for some reason, the previous owner added the additional two to the outside at some point.  Thanks again for your help!


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## WetDogGraphix (Jan 2, 2021)

RPO469 said:


> Thanks WetDog!  You are right, I didn't scroll all the way down to the sketch of the fork.  Here is the crazy thing....my bike has the rocker plates on the inside and outside both! There are four rocker plates on my bike.  Once I finish it, I will assemble per your instructions, unless somewhere along the line, they used four.  Maybe, for some reason, the previous owner added the additional two to the outside at some point.  Thanks again for your help!



You're welcome. Once you put it together right, you'll see how it works....
If you have any questions, fill free to ask.....


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## Adamtinkerer (Jan 9, 2021)

Snyder was the only co. to use reverse year codes, and only from '40-'58. The 'EH' is believed to be the Indiana "Excelsior" factory. 'SN' was the NY factory.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Jan 9, 2021)

I have a Snyder with a flat top rear fender brace it is a 52, are you saying only CWC had that? 


BWbiker said:


> CWC used a straight top brace, thed one below the seat tube, for the rear fender.


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## BWbiker (Jan 9, 2021)

I'd start your own post, get opinions in that specific frame from others more knowledgeable about it.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Jan 9, 2021)

I wasn't trying to hijack it, just asked question that pertained to this conversation is that not cool?


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Jan 9, 2021)

Sorry misunderstood you when you said you were schooled on it ,hoped you were the one to ask


BWbiker said:


> I'd start your own post, get opinions in that specific frame from others more knowledgeable about it.


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## BWbiker (Jan 9, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Sorry misunderstood you when you said you were schooled on it ,hoped you were the one to ask



I'm not a deep study like some collectors, just a general feature I was told to look for to distinguish between frames.


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## TieDye (Jan 10, 2021)

Snyder built Hawthorne looks like this, with what I call joint sleeves:


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## RPO469 (May 22, 2021)

WetDogGraphix said:


> You obviously didn't read the whole thread......Go read my post #18....
> The rocker plate goes on the inside, not the outside...
> My bike came the same way as yours, I had to learn the right way....It is very unstable the way yours is done....
> Trust me, it will ride like a dream when put together right.....
> ...



Thx WetDog!  Well the bike is completed & with your help regarding the springer fork, is now assembled correctly.  Thx again!


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## WetDogGraphix (May 22, 2021)

RPO469 said:


> Thx WetDog!  Well the bike is completed & with your help regarding the springer fork, is now assembled correctly.  Thx again!
> 
> View attachment 1416491
> 
> ...



I saw this earlier this morning, I'm sure it will ride better...Very nice, like it.... 
You're welcome...


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (May 22, 2021)

RPO469 said:


> Thx WetDog!  Well the bike is completed & with your help regarding the springer fork, is now assembled correctly.  Thx again!
> 
> View attachment 1416491
> 
> ...



That is smoking hot ,real nice job great bike enjoy it.


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