# Can you identify this Hercules Bicycle?



## makeahat (Jun 9, 2013)

First post here, I have trawled the internet high and low to try and find out what model Hercules this bicycle is. It was originally owned by my Great Uncle Archie, he was a cycle scout for the Automobile Association in the UK and this was the bike he used for his job. We have a photograph of him around 1937 (we think) with this bicycle (I can post when I am next visiting my parents) and he looks as if he was around 35 in the photo (this makes sense as he was born in 1902.

I am planning on restoring it to it's original condition. I know there are various discussions about repainting etc, i'm not interesting in the value of repainting. This bicycle has been in my family for almost 80 years and I hope to pass it on to the next generation, so it will never be sold.

I can't find any numbers on the bicycle anywhere although the crankset is clearly a Hercules, as does the badge on the head tube indicate this.

Any indication on what model Hercules this maybe would be fantastic

I 
























Thanks in advance of any help

Makeahat


----------



## fat tire trader (Jun 9, 2013)

We can start to determine what year it is by the rear hub, if it is original. Can you provide pictures of the hub? Do you know what model it is? I have some Hercules catalogs which might be helpful. I also have a couple of Hercules bikes. You can see the catalogs here

http://www.fattiretrading.com/catalogs.html


----------



## SirMike1983 (Jun 9, 2013)

What size wheels/tires? Those handlebars (wide flat type with side-mount rods) with the 3 speed look like the 1930s Model U with the black finish and 23 inch frame. It has brazed-on seat stays as well, which is keeping with a Model U. The Model U would take 26 x 1 3/8 tires, so if you have that size, there's a very good chance it's a Model U. Use the rear hub date as a starting point for what year it was made.


----------



## Stinky_Sullivan (Jun 9, 2013)

I can't help with the date but I'd very much like to see more pictures of the handlebars with the rod brake components.


----------



## makeahat (Jun 10, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies



fat tire trader said:


> We can start to determine what year it is by the rear hub, if it is original. Can you provide pictures of the hub? Do you know what model it is? I have some Hercules catalogs which might be helpful. I also have a couple of Hercules bikes. You can see the catalogs here
> 
> http://www.fattiretrading.com/catalogs.html




I wont be able to post up a picture of the hub until Wednesday, but will do it needs a good clean!



SirMike1983 said:


> What size wheels/tires? Those handlebars (wide flat type with side-mount rods) with the 3 speed look like the 1930s Model U with the black finish and 23 inch frame. It has brazed-on seat stays as well, which is keeping with a Model U. The Model U would take 26 x 1 3/8 tires, so if you have that size, there's a very good chance it's a Model U. Use the rear hub date as a starting point for what year it was made.




The tyres are indeed 26 X 1 3/8



Stinky_Sullivan said:


> I can't help with the date but I'd very much like to see more pictures of the handlebars with the rod brake components.




Will also take photos along with the hub to show you this.

Thanks for all the help so far


----------



## SirMike1983 (Jun 10, 2013)

Great- would say a 1930s Hercules Model U.



makeahat said:


> Thanks for all the replies
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## makeahat (Jun 10, 2013)

I notice that all of the Hercules Model U's I have seen have a chain guard, is it likely that mine is either missing or possible that some Model U's didn't have chain guards?


----------



## SirMike1983 (Jun 10, 2013)

makeahat said:


> I notice that all of the Hercules Model U's I have seen have a chain guard, is it likely that mine is either missing or possible that some Model U's didn't have chain guards?




It likely was removed at some point, which was a pretty commonly done trick to lighten the bike and do away with many of the issues that come with chain cases. From the look of it, there still is a clamp for it attached to the down tube.


----------



## makeahat (Jun 13, 2013)

I have cleaned up the hub and it is a Sturmey Archer K7, this the only markings I can see on the hub? What year is this?


----------



## makeahat (Jun 13, 2013)

According to this article  the K7 denotes 1937.

This would figure with everything in the picture of Great Uncle Archie and his birthdate.


----------



## makeahat (Jun 13, 2013)

I have seen this bicycle on ebay and wonder if it's worth buying for donor parts? Or is it not worth it?


----------



## SirMike1983 (Jun 13, 2013)

makeahat said:


> According to this article  the K7 denotes 1937.
> 
> This would figure with everything in the picture of Great Uncle Archie and his birthdate.




Correct- 1937. It's a late model K hub. The AW gradually replaced it in 1936-37. I have a K 5 hub on my Model G. 

That bicycle you cite is awfully nice just to part it out. It would sort of be a shame for such a nice bike to end up that way. Moreover, that bicycle is an entirely different size from yours. What parts did you need for yours? The bike you linked to is a 24 inch frame with 28 inch wheels, so there may not be as much you can use from it as you think.


----------



## makeahat (Jun 14, 2013)

SirMike1983 said:


> Correct- 1937. It's a late model K hub. The AW gradually replaced it in 1936-37. I have a K 5 hub on my Model G.
> 
> That bicycle you cite is awfully nice just to part it out. It would sort of be a shame for such a nice bike to end up that way. Moreover, that bicycle is an entirely different size from yours. What parts did you need for yours? The bike you linked to is a 24 inch frame with 28 inch wheels, so there may not be as much you can use from it as you think.




I guess I need to decided on a level of finish that i'd like to achieve with the bicycle, I guess the fact that it is in a black finish is one of the challenges in restoring it. All the rod brakes etc are black finish but covered in rust. 

I am not sure how to approach getting them back to their original state?

Could the bicycle be stripped and all the parts cleaned (would this be sand blasting?) and repainted.

Parts of the frame have good paint, others have awful paint.

As for the rims, they look too far gone to provide any decent braking surface? Ad the spokes are completely covered in rust (hard to tell what colour they were originally!)

I think the wheels require new rims and spokes and a complete rebuild (I recently built a wheelset from scratch so am happy to do this!)

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## SirMike1983 (Jun 14, 2013)

makeahat said:


> I guess I need to decided on a level of finish that i'd like to achieve with the bicycle, I guess the fact that it is in a black finish is one of the challenges in restoring it. All the rod brakes etc are black finish but covered in rust.
> 
> I am not sure how to approach getting them back to their original state?
> 
> ...




The first step is to see if you can preserve the original paint. Try here: http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?32190-Old-paint-chrome-repair for some methods and ideas. The paint on these bikes was fairly good, so there may be more left there than first appears. Try doing it on the small parts too, including the rod brake hardware. If you find you have generally ok paint, but a couple bad spots, you could patch up the bad spots with a matching black paint, and leave original where you can. 

If you try to preserve it and you don't like the results, you can strip it and re-paint. The bicycle being black is a good thing. You won't have to carefully match hues, but instead can use a good quality, black automotive type paint. You could have it black powder coated too if you wanted.  Stripping can be done through abrasion (mediablasting or sandpaper) or checmically (Acetone or heavy duty oven cleaner). It's a matter of whether you want to rent a booth or have someone do it (blasting) or do it yourself (Acetone/oven cleaner spray or perhaps sandpaper).

The braking surface often goes on these rims. The plating being gone is fine. Look for holes, deep dings, or soft spots in the structure of the metal on the braking surface. Replace the rims if the structure is really bad. If you have just one hole or bad spot, you could have a welder weld it and then grind it down smooth. If you opt to replace, you have a couple options in the 26 x 1 3/8 rim size that work with rod brakes (far eastern production or perhaps vintage Raleigh Sports "Westrick" pattern). The spokes often go downhill too, being just thin wire. If you want to only display the bike, leave the rims and spokes. If you want to ride the bike, it's probably best to replace at least the spokes, and possibly the rims too (depending on the condition you find when you closely examine them).


----------



## makeahat (Jun 14, 2013)

SirMike1983 you are being most helpful, your information is invaluable and I appreciate the help

I want to ride this bicycle and I'd be more comfortable knowing the wheels were sound. 

Are these rims any good? 

Thanks

Makeahat


----------



## makeahat (Jun 15, 2013)

I have found this catalogue on eBay and after contacting the seller contains the 'Model U' do you think it's worth getting hold of? I have also found a 1937 catalogue that doesn't contain the 'Model U' which leads me to think the bicycle could be from 1938?


----------



## SirMike1983 (Jun 15, 2013)

I am not sure those rims will work with rod brakes. It's sort of difficult to tell what shape they are exactly. They look like a different shape than you want. You want to look for "Westwood" or Westrick/Raleigh pattern rims in 26 x 1 3/8 (ISO 590). I'm not sure if the bike will work with 26 x 1 1/2. It might, but I've never tried such a swap.

The shape with the ridge in the middle and flat areas around the ridge is what you want. The brake pads rub in the flat areas running alongside the center ridge.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ms_01_.png/200px-Bicycle_rim_diagrams_01_.png

http://sheldonbrown.com/images/ralpatrim-beige.gif

If your old rims are 26 x 1 3/8, then I'd try to match that rather than swapping sizes. Count the number of spokes on your wheels. They're probably 40 in back and 32 in front. Look for old "Raleigh Pattern" rims or old "Westwood" rims. You want to match those numbers as well (don't get 36 hole rims). A 26 x 1  1/2 rim might work too, but I've never tried such a swap.

I got a set of rims for my Model G from here:

http://stores.ebay.com/vcc4bikes?_trksid=p2047675.l2563




makeahat said:


> SirMike1983 you are being most helpful, your information is invaluable and I appreciate the help
> 
> I want to ride this bicycle and I'd be more comfortable knowing the wheels were sound.
> 
> ...


----------



## SirMike1983 (Jun 15, 2013)

makeahat said:


> I have found this catalogue on eBay and after contacting the seller contains the 'Model U' do you think it's worth getting hold of? I have also found a 1937 catalogue that doesn't contain the 'Model U' which leads me to think the bicycle could be from 1938?




I have some mid-1930s Hercules catalogs on my desktop computer. Send me your email address via private message here and I'll email you some catalogs. I believe the Model U is in one or all of them (from what I remember).


----------



## makeahat (Jun 16, 2013)

SirMike1983 you pm box is full! 

My email is nic . howett @ gmail . com without the spaces, I appreciate it if you could email me some catalogues, that would be most helpful. Thanks for all your help and advice so far!

Nic


----------



## SirMike1983 (Jun 16, 2013)

Sorry- it apparently doesn't notify you when it's full until someone tries to send something.

I've sent them to the email address you listed.


----------



## makeahat (Jun 16, 2013)

Sir Mike,

I need access to your google drive to download these files? Anyway you can send them as an attachment? I found the 1937 Hercules Catalogue online as a pdf would you be interested in receiving that?


----------



## SirMike1983 (Jun 16, 2013)

makeahat said:


> Sir Mike,
> 
> I need access to your google drive to download these files? Anyway you can send them as an attachment? I found the 1937 Hercules Catalogue online as a pdf would you be interested in receiving that?




You should be able to see them now, assuming I did it right.


----------



## makeahat (Jun 16, 2013)

SirMike1983 said:


> You should be able to see them now, assuming I did it right.




Thanks SirMike, did you want the pdf 1937 catalogue I had found?


----------



## makeahat (Jun 16, 2013)

Here is my great uncle with the bicycle, I think this must have been taken in 1937-38


----------



## SirMike1983 (Jun 16, 2013)

makeahat said:


> Thanks SirMike, did you want the pdf 1937 catalogue I had found?




Sure, I'll take a look at it. I appreciate it.

What service was he in? It's hard to tell from the photo. Looks British or Canadian to me.


----------



## makeahat (Jun 16, 2013)

SirMike1983 said:


> Sure, I'll take a look at it. I appreciate it.
> 
> What service was he in? It's hard to tell from the photo. Looks British or Canadian to me.




I'm from the UK he was British, well born in Aberdare in Wales, the Uniform he is wearing is for the Automobile Association, he was an AA scout, which meant that he would cycle out to cars that had broken down and attempt to repair them (a slightly ironic job in a way!)


----------

