# Schwinn 20" tall prewar cycle truck ?



## looneymatthew

Anybody have some photos of this uncommon schwinn cycletruck?


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## widpanic02

*Oh my god!!!*

Where did you find this??? I actually have a prewar schwinn one if these!!! I have never seen another! I have looked for the past year and a half since I found it and this is the first one I have seen. Mine has the original market sign with the 3 digit phone number so I know it's around 1939 when they were first produced. Maybe even earlier as a prototype or something. Everyone says oh that's not a schwinn well yes it is !!! Mine has the original badge , sign, and early schwinn cycle truck decal. There has to be only a few of these out there. I don't know if stuff was changed on mine but the wheels were correct drop center morrow /nd w hubs. The prewar drop stand, basket, and basket holders . The handlebars were longhorn prewar torrington's, and the chainring was a wald Ashtabula . The seat was a prewar mesinger not the common cycle truck seat they you see in the prewar CT's. if someone knows what the deal is with these please speak up!!


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## widpanic02

*More pics*











Really long pull torrington's , the big razor AS stem, prewar big pan mesinger , etc


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## looneymatthew

*Yes its a schwinn*

Its early they called it a 20" tall frame /I think....  that is what i have been told . but definitely Schwinn and only prewar in that model.

MAYBE  some Schwinn historian can fill in the blanks on its history. I doubt there are any THE Cabe members that know anything about these on this forum?   schwinn forum go boom!




widpanic02 said:


> Where did you find this??? I actually have a prewar schwinn one if these!!! I have never seen another! I have looked for the past year and a half since I found it and this is the first one I have seen. Mine has the original market sign with the 3 digit phone number so I know it's around 1939 when they were first produced. Maybe even earlier as a prototype or something. Everyone says oh that's not a schwinn well yes it is !!! Mine has the original badge , sign, and early schwinn cycle truck decal. There has to be only a few of these out there. I don't know if stuff was changed on mine but the wheels were correct drop center morrow /nd w hubs. The prewar drop stand, basket, and basket holders . The handlebars were longhorn prewar torrington's, and the chainring was a wald Ashtabula . The seat was a prewar mesinger not the common cycle truck seat they you see in the prewar CT's. if someone knows what the deal is with these please speak up!!View attachment 91991View attachment 91992View attachment 91993View attachment 91994View attachment 91995View attachment 91996View attachment 91997


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## jpromo

looneymatthew said:


> Its early they called it a 20" tall frame /I think....  that is what i have been told . but definitely Schwinn and only prewar in that model.
> 
> MAYBE  some Schwinn historian can fill in the blanks on its history. I doubt there are any THE Cabe members that know anything about these on this forum?   schwinn forum go boom!




Never doubt the power of the Cabe! I know that 20" prewar frames are uncommon on any bike. One can assume that a 20" CT is even less common since CTs aren't your everyday DX or straightbar frame to start with.


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## jpromo

Post the serial and we can at least narrow down the year. But I did just find this from 1946 which specifies the option of an 18 or 20" frame:


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## widpanic02

*!*

From what I know about history alone, 3 digit phone numbers were changed right around 1940ish.


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## looneymatthew

*ser. #*

there is a pic of ser.# posted in begining of thread.  it starts wit a B which i believe is early 30s. the curb market must have gott ahold of it later on in its life . i would guess it is one of the earliest examples . maybe first or so year of the SCHWINN  CYCLE TRUCK.  GREAT FIND . I WOULD NOT DO ANYTHING BUT GET IT UP AND RUNNING O.G.

where did you find that thing?






widpanic02 said:


> From what I know about history alone, 3 digit phone numbers were changed right around 1940ish.


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## looneymatthew

*digits*

I would concentrate on the ser. # on the frame . not the stores phone#  they could have aquired the cycle used at a early cyclone coaster swap back in the day or a flee market and were early ride vintage geeks.

 i







widpanic02 said:


> From what I know about history alone, 3 digit phone numbers were changed right around 1940ish.


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## looneymatthew

*everybody is an expert.......*

I was being sarcastic.  trying to motivate some of the experts or longtimers to chime in.....





looneymatthew said:


> Its early they called it a 20" tall frame /I think....  that is what i have been told . but definitely Schwinn and only prewar in that model.
> 
> MAYBE  some Schwinn historian can fill in the blanks on its history. I doubt there are any THE Cabe members that know anything about these on this forum?   schwinn forum go boom!


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## REC

*20" Cycle-Truck*

Interesting..... 
I can't quite make out the last digit of your serial number WildPanic, but it looks kind of like an 8, possibly a 6 - let us know.

I also have one of these, it is about 1500 numbers earlier than this one, B86458. I just put the basket on it about two weeks ago after having it sitting here 2 & 1/2 years ago. I don't have a signplate for it yet (Hint hint - pattern time!)
Here it is before basket - no photos yet with the basket. I have a set of drop centers sitting in the little shed, but they need paint and assembly. 

Oh yeah... this would be late '39 or early '40, but I'd lean on late '39 based on the height of the head tube over the top bar. It is a little shorter than the normal tube on my 18" framed '39, and will not take the standard length steering tube on the fork. I looked at the one from this bike when it was lying on the table next to another one out of a '46. The '46 was longer, then compared it to the other residents and found the same thing. These are definitely interesting..

REC


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## jpromo

looneymatthew said:


> I was being sarcastic.  trying to motivate some of the experts or longtimers to chime in.....




Oops; sarcasm can be tough to discern on the interweb :o

The B serial leads me to say very early postwar--from what I know, 1946 saw the alphabet start over. And since that catalog page listed a 20" in 1946, I'd lean towards that, personally.


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## looneymatthew

*39-40*

I agree 
I would say 1939-1940  early  




REC said:


> Interesting.....
> I can't quite make out the last digit of your serial number WildPanic, but it looks kind of like an 8, possibly a 6 - let us know.
> 
> I also have one of these, it is about 1500 numbers earlier than this one, B86458. I just put the basket on it about two weeks ago after having it sitting here 2 & 1/2 years ago. I don't have a signplate for it yet (Hint hint - pattern time!)
> Here it is before basket - no photos yet with the basket. I have a set of drop centers sitting in the little shed, but they need paint and assembly.
> 
> Oh yeah... this would be late '39 or early '40, but I'd lean on late '39 based on the height of the head tube over the top bar. It is a little shorter than the normal tube on my 18" framed '39, and will not take the standard length steering tube on the fork. I looked at the one from this bike when it was lying on the table next to another one out of a '46. The '48 was longer, then compared it to the other residents and found the same thing. These are definitely interesting..
> 
> REC


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## widpanic02

*I agree*

I agree this is 39 or early 40 . No offense Jp but definitely not a 46 . From what I know about prewar Schwinns this has the look, plus in 46 schwinn switched over all there bikes to the front facing dropouts . I have a 46 Cycle truck and they look nothing alike. This bike has drop center wheel set with a morrow 1939/40 date coded hub . if it was a 46 it would of had Lobdell wheels and privably a new departure hub. I also have two prewar Schwinns they have B serial number so that really is a common letter in schwinn dating. REC do you think it's possible that these were equipped different than the regular cycle trucks? When I found this bike it had very long pull torrington's,a prewar mesinger, and a wald ashtabula chainring . Another thing is I actually pulled two out of a farm / hoarders place and its a prewar from the same market ! Red with black pinstripe lines. About 65 percent original paint remains.


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## widpanic02

*!*

By the way the 39 catalog offers the 20" as well. There are a few of the catalogs that offer it.


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## cds2323

My 39 DX has a serial # that starts with B, and I've seen at least 3 or 4 other 39 DXs' that also start with B.


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## jpromo

widpanic02 said:


> I agree this is 39 or early 40 . No offense Jp but definitely not a 46 . From what I know about prewar Schwinns this has the look, plus in 46 schwinn switched over all there bikes to the front facing dropouts .




None taken! That's what this community is for, right? I had just thought the CT was the only model which held onto the rear facing dropouts for a year or two afterwards. As well as the drop centers through '47 like the rest of the Schwinn line.


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## CycletruckLarry

*Tall prewar Cycletruck*

Here's a couple of pics


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## looneymatthew

*Welcome to the cabe*

BRILLIANT ORIG, PRE WAR CYCLE TRUCK. 
IF ITS FOR SALE I WOULD BE INTERESTED.

THANKS FOR SHARING.
EMAIL. matthewdaniel1@cox.net 




CycletruckLarry said:


> Here's a couple of pics
> 
> View attachment 116892View attachment 116893


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## REC

looneymatthew said:


> BRILLIANT ORIG, PRE WAR CYCLE TRUCK.
> IF ITS FOR SALE I WOULD BE INTERESTED.
> 
> THANKS FOR SHARING.
> EMAIL. matthewdaniel1@cox.net




Matt,
That's on ebay.... been droolin' - ad stated won't ship. Arrgh!
REC

PS: I'm still missing my signplate, but finally got a basket mounted. Looks a heckuva lot better with the basket! It now has a black longspring saddle too. Need to take it outside for pictures! I think the blue one would be right at home next to it.





REC


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## looneymatthew

*i saw it a few days ago*

thanks. yes i saw it. 
brilliant !

good luck on the sale .





REC said:


> Matt,
> That's on ebay.... been droolin' - ad stated won't ship. Arrgh!
> REC


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## willswares1220

Love that "Curb Market" panel sign!  

      ~ Adds a folksy touch ~


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## CycletruckLarry

*Tall Cycletruck*

This is on eBay right now....


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## CycletruckLarry

*Tall Cycletruck*

Anyone else notice the big basket nut? I don't ever recall seeing one on prewars....


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## kccomet

i have a tall frame with the big basket with the frame nut. i believe mines pre war


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## looneymatthew

*post some pictures*

[If possible please post some reference shots for us.
Any pics with orig paint/parts ect are great or anything is better than both. 
Thanks





IQUOTE=kccomet;276410]i have a tall frame with the big basket with the frame nut. i believe mines pre war[/QUOTE]


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## REC

So if the bike with the provision for the large basket is tough to find, how hard do ya think it will be to find the CORRECT basket?

I have that answer. And I knew what this was on first sight.... hence the drool fest.

I be in the hunt if it could be shipped. No shipping leaves me at the gate looking in. 

Note the triangular cut in the signplate - this is to allow the crossbar to pass from one side to the other. On the original basket, all four straps across the back have a bolt hole and there is a straight brace that attaches across the back of the basket, as well as the little bar from the nut on the top bar to the outer straps on the back of the basket.

I HAVE the correct basket. it isn't perfect, but it is repaired and usable. 

My tall one is not (but could be made into) one of the large basket models. I have given that much thought.... and the day ain't over yet, nor is my signplate cut...
Hmmmmm.

REC


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## kccomet

im your right about the cut out on the sign. i was wondering about the missing piece its for the bar. my basket has the bar that runs through the frame attaching to the basket, and a wire clip that goes to the screw and nut on the frame. i really dont know much about these cycletrucks but they sure are interesting.


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## kccomet

im your right about the cut out on the sign. i was wondering about the missing piece its for the bar. my basket has the bar that runs through the frame attaching to the basket, and a wire clip that goes to the screw and nut on the frame. i really dont know much about these cycletrucks but they sure are interesting.


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## REC

*$64000 Question*

Anyone here get this one?

REC


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## danilo1219

*schwinn cycle truck 1939*




Schwinn cycle truck 1939


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## Freqman1

The '39 should only have three clips holding the sign. Nice looking bike. V/r Shawn


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## JKT

if anyone is still reading this ..YES  I bought it !!! and have carefully stripped almost all the ugly blue paint off this bike so far to find almost all the original red paint in good condition underneath !!!


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## Ozark Flyer

Glad someone is taking care with it.  It would have been a shame to see someone pimp out such a nice rare original.


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## JKT

thanks!! I was lucky enough that the seller was coming up my way within 80 miles from me and offered to bring it with them. was advertised on eBay "no shipping" what a deal !! I have since acquired a very nice prewar large basket and a nice unrestored prewar mesinger seat that fits the patina very well. the rims are both lobdell  the front cleaned up fairly well but the rear needs replaced. I have a better one but could use even a better one yet..


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## looneymatthew

*post some before and after pics.*

lets see some pics of the bikes progress . and good job ,cool bike.





JKT said:


> thanks!! I was lucky enough that the seller was coming up my way within 80 miles from me and offered to bring it with them. was advertised on eBay "no shipping" what a deal !! I have since acquired a very nice prewar large basket and a nice unrestored prewar mesinger seat that fits the patina very well. the rims are both lobdell  the front cleaned up fairly well but the rear needs replaced. I have a better one but could use even a better one yet..


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## JKT

*schwinn 20" tall cycle truck ?*

it might take me a little time to get some on here. I will have to get some help from a friend, I don't know exactly how to put pics on here yet. yesterday I almost completed taking off all the blue paint. now I have to take off the wheels and maybe the fenders and turn the bike upside down to get to all the little nooks and cranny's I couldn't get to. I took Meguiars 7 show car glaze to part of the sign and it brought out quite a nice shine to the original paint !! I believe the rest will do the same.  I will try to get some pics soon.....


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## CycletruckLarry

*20" tall Cycle Truck*

I'd still like to see pics of how that clean up came out. I've been looking more at the long and short head tubes on prewar Cycle Truck frames; I'm suspecting, as someone else had mentioned, that the short headtube was the first 1-2 years of production (39-40). In a 1939 ad that mentions the 18" and 20" frames, it shows the bike with 3 straps on the sign board and the short head tube.  

I sure wish I could some production numbers for the 20" tall frames as well as the power CT frames.

Schwinn offered custom ordered options back in those days as well as the tall frames. Who knows what other variations or one-offs might exist.

And on the serial numbers...I fear the prewar numbers will never be reliably decoded. Even the postwar numbers were known to repeat themselves 2 or even 3 times. 

I've been into Schwinns all my life and into Cycle Trucks for 22+ years and I'm still learning. I'd never seen a 20" frame until last year. (I've owned a copy of Getrude Vorgang's book for 25 years with the '39 ad mentioning the 20" frame, so I knew they existed.) Then in the last year I've seen 3 tall CT's for sale on eBay. The complete blue one that a CABE member luckily got, the black frame/fork with the incorrect kidney bean sprocket and the primered bare frame with 'gussets added' which I snagged for a song and am currently repairing. (someone in the past had welded 5/8" steel plate between the seatpost clamp & the top fender bridge and the crank hanger & the bottom fender bridge!) 

Regarding prewar sign boards- those lucky enough to have originals with their bikes; has anyone come across an aluminum one or have they all been steel?  I've heard about thick aluminum boards on prewars.


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## JKT

*20" tall prewar cycle truck*



CycletruckLarry said:


> I'd still like to see pics of how that clean up came out. I've been looking more at the long and short head tubes on prewar Cycle Truck frames; I'm suspecting, as someone else had mentioned, that the short headtube was the first 1-2 years of production (39-40). In a 1939 ad that mentions the 18" and 20" frames, it shows the bike with 3 straps on the sign board and the short head tube.
> 
> I sure wish I could some production numbers for the 20" tall frames as well as the power CT frames.
> 
> Schwinn offered custom ordered options back in those days as well as the tall frames. Who knows what other variations or one-offs might exist.
> 
> And on the serial numbers...I fear the prewar numbers will never be reliably decoded. Even the postwar numbers were known to repeat themselves 2 or even 3 times.
> 
> I've been into Schwinns all my life and into Cycle Trucks for 22+ years and I'm still learning. I'd never seen a 20" frame until last year. (I've owned a copy of Getrude Vorgang's book for 25 years with the '39 ad mentioning the 20" frame, so I knew they existed.) Then in the last year I've seen 3 tall CT's for sale on eBay. The complete blue one that a CABE member luckily got, the black frame/fork with the incorrect kidney bean sprocket and the primered bare frame with 'gussets added' which I snagged for a song and am currently repairing. (someone in the past had welded 5/8" steel plate between the seatpost clamp & the top fender bridge and the crank hanger & the bottom fender bridge!)
> 
> Regarding prewar sign boards- those lucky enough to have originals with their bikes; has anyone come across an aluminum one or have they all been steel?  I've heard about thick aluminum boards on prewars.





Hi cycletrucklarry.. I'm the one that bought the blue one and all the blue paint is now gone. sorry for not posting pics yet, I got side tracked and now I'm working long hours . I just bought another tall frame and should have it later this week or next week. its a bit rougher then the blue one but still has the original sign board and only missing the chain guard and original sprocket. it is a small basket one where the blue one was originally a large basket one ( which it is again ) when I saw the small basket one I had to have it so I could have one of each. lol ..  both have the taller necks. I know of the other two frames you mentioned and I saw the short neck frame you bought. I wondered why someone welded those plates on it ??? hope you get them off okay .. every original sign board I have is steel but I have read in original advertising stateing that the sign boards were aluminum .


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## CycletruckLarry

*20" tal Cycle Trucks*

JKT, I'm glad you got that blue one. I hear you about working long hours. I'm packing to sell my house and have to pack up all my projects and tools. Although I am working on removing those gussets from that frame, (my fiancee will kill me if she knows I'm still working on a bike, let alone bought another one.) I'll post some pics of a before and after. I couldn't believe they used 5/8" solid steel plate. Where did you find another one? You're on the East coast, right?


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## JKT

*20" tall frame cycle truck*

Hi cycletrucklarry.. wow that's amazing what some people do to something not knowing how scarce this bikes are.. wonder just what they were trying to do. i'm in the mid-west, I found this one in Georgia waiting for delivery right now. once I get it I will try to get both out for pics when the overtime stops.


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## American Vintage Bicycle Supply

JKT said:


> Hi cycletrucklarry.. wow that's amazing what some people do to something not knowing how scarce this bikes are.. wonder just what they were trying to do. i'm in the mid-west, I found this one in Georgia waiting for delivery right now. once I get it I will try to get both out for pics when the overtime stops.




I saw the one you're getting in person. It's really cool. Good score.


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## bike

*20" ct I had once before megapixil cameras*


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## JKT

*20" tall frame cycle truck*



Double Nickle said:


> I saw the one you're getting in person. It's really cool. Good score.




Hi Double Nickel. I read that you were the first at the door that Morning !! I was on that truck from the time" Freqman1"  first posted the sale.. I knew what it was at first glance and called about it and was the first one to call. I bought it just from the one rather poor photo... its rougher then the one I have and I have a seat that will go very well with it, if I choose to leave it the way it is and I also have a better basket. I should have it next week. John


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## JKT

bike said:


> View attachment 177857




Hi bike, that's a great looking one.. I saw it in one of your photos in the back ground of your shop. I knew what it was and always wanted to see a better photo of it. I'm glad you posted it... how long ago did you sell it ??  John


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## bike

*12+*



JKT said:


> Hi bike, that's a great looking one.. I saw it in one of your photos in the back ground of your shop. I knew what it was and always wanted to see a better photo of it. I'm glad you posted it... how long ago did you sell it ??  John




Years ago...many bikes under the bridge since then! 

I have a million pictures on my hard drive in no special order- just happend to come across this one.


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## JKT

*20" tall frame cycle truck*



CycletruckLarry said:


> I'd still like to see pics of how that clean up came out. I've been looking more at the long and short head tubes on prewar Cycle Truck frames; I'm suspecting, as someone else had mentioned, that the short headtube was the first 1-2 years of production (39-40). In a 1939 ad that mentions the 18" and 20" frames, it shows the bike with 3 straps on the sign board and the short head tube.
> 
> I sure wish I could some production numbers for the 20" tall frames as well as the power CT frames.
> 
> Schwinn offered custom ordered options back in those days as well as the tall frames. Who knows what other variations or one-offs might exist.
> 
> And on the serial numbers...I fear the prewar numbers will never be reliably decoded. Even the postwar numbers were known to repeat themselves 2 or even 3 times.
> 
> I've been into Schwinns all my life and into Cycle Trucks for 22+ years and I'm still learning. I'd never seen a 20" frame until last year. (I've owned a copy of Getrude Vorgang's book for 25 years with the '39 ad mentioning the 20" frame, so I knew they existed.) Then in the last year I've seen 3 tall CT's for sale on eBay. The complete blue one that a CABE member luckily got, the black frame/fork with the incorrect kidney bean sprocket and the primered bare frame with 'gussets added' which I snagged for a song and am currently repairing. (someone in the past had welded 5/8" steel plate between the seatpost clamp & the top fender bridge and the crank hanger & the bottom fender bridge!)
> 
> Regarding prewar sign boards- those lucky enough to have originals with their bikes; has anyone come across an aluminum one or have they all been steel?  I've heard about thick aluminum boards on prewars.





here is a page from a 80 page 1940 genuine Schwinn built parts catalogue.. it says that the items crossed out or lined out in ink would not be in the 1941 catalogue. I suspect that the 20" short head was supposed to be lined out like the 18" short head,  not the 18" long head one.


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## volksboy57

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/20-inch-bf-goodrich-cycle-truck.166274/


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## biggermustache

just brought this one home.


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## biggermustache

Starting to come alive. Mock up with fenders


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## REC

biggermustache said:


> View attachment 1391753
> Starting to come alive. Mock up with fenders



what did the rear fender come from??


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## biggermustache

REC said:


> what did the rear fender come from??



Postwar B6. I have a red prewar fender that I might take the braces from to retro the green fender.


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## REC

biggermustache said:


> Postwar B6. I have a red prewar fender that I might take the braces from to retro the green fender.



If you do that and would let the fender go, I would take it off your hands... let me know please.
REC


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