# Schwinn DX (PreWar) 1940 "Pioneer" Model Complete



## dbelcher (Jun 23, 2010)

Any additional information is welcome!!!!


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## dbelcher (Jun 23, 2010)

5 more! One more left - Dylan


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## dbelcher (Jun 23, 2010)

*Does anyone have a badge similar?*

contact: dbelcher@sweetser.org or via forum


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## dbelcher (Jun 26, 2010)

Turns out the bike is a 41, anyone know if the rims are original to the bike?


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## chriscokid (Jun 26, 2010)

check to see if it's stamped with S7 or something like that.. nice ride though


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## dbelcher (Jun 26, 2010)

cant find S7, there is an "E" on the on the opposite side that reads 41 - does anyone know what the "E" Stands for?


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## cyclingday (Jun 26, 2010)

The Pioneer badge is one of the more obscure ones from Arnold Schwinn and Company.
It is always cool to see one in its original state on the bike that it came from.


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## DonChristie (Jun 27, 2010)

Nice! Never even seen a Pioneer badge. It appears those rims are later. I would assume they should be drop center rims. 1940 and before had a slightly different frame/tank graphics.


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## dbelcher (Jun 29, 2010)

Helpful information: Leon really knows his stuff, http://nbhaa.com is a great place to find information on classic bikes! 


re: 

Well... looks like you have wasted a lot of emails and time with the DIY guessers. We could have told you everything the first time out. And ANYONE worth his salt in classic bicycles should have immediately been able to tell you that this bicycle was NOT postwar- without ANY back & forth emails or guessing. Interesting that none of the DIY amateurs referred you to NBHAA.com.

Yes, what you have there is a 1941 DX model. It is missing the chainguard... and obviously the grips. The basket is not original. The rims are legit for 1941.

RE: the headbadge... no big deal. It is a private label and there were jillions of them.

Hope this helps.

Leon Dixon
NBHAA.com


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## cyclingday (Jun 29, 2010)

*A legend in his own mind!*

Yeah!
Maybe in 1941 there were jillions of Pioneer headbadges, but not anymore.
That bike also sold for about $25.00 brand new and there probably were jillions of them too, but not anymore.


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## partsguy (Jun 29, 2010)

cyclingday said:


> Yeah!
> Maybe in 1941 there were jillions of Pioneer headbadges, but not anymore.
> That bike also sold for about $25.00 brand new and there probably were jillions of them too, but not anymore.




Yep. Exactly. Not many survived.


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## mruiz (Jun 30, 2010)

First One I'd seen. Leon do you have any?


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## dbelcher (Jun 30, 2010)

From the research I have done thus far, I have been unable to find another serial # matching the one on the DX we have. Does anyone know where a more extensive list of 41 serial numbers are located?? (So far we have only found 3...) I would think for the amount that were manufactured there would have to be more in the market... Are serial numbers something usually not shared? 

Any idea's / guesses on the retailer that sold the "Pioneer Model???" I understand from Leon that there were Jillions made, but this brings the question of why reproduction badges are being sold for 140.00 alone? 

Someone from Schwinn Forums was nice enough to forward me the link below of a restored original Pioneer badge, this confuses me though because the paint remaining on our badge does not match the paint on the restored badge... Any ideas? 
http://cgi.ebay.com/RESTORED-ORIGINAL-PREWAR-SCHWINN-PIONEER-BADGE-/38024379074

I am also sorry to say we are no longer considering selling the bike, we have had a blast tinkering with it (for better or worse..) Prior to any real restoration efforts we are working on learning more about the "do's and do not's" of the restoration process any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Dylan


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## dbelcher (Jun 30, 2010)

Chain guards? Were there models with out chain guards? I ask this because there is no marks on paint or framing that would suggest this bike ever had a chain guard. Any thoughts?


dbelcher said:


> Helpful information: Leon really knows his stuff, http://nbhaa.com is a great place to find information on classic bikes!
> 
> 
> re:
> ...


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## RMS37 (Jun 30, 2010)

Few bikes left the factory without chain guards by 1941. Even most stripped down 1942 bicycles were so equipped. It is possible that the guard was removed early before it left an imprint.

My interpretation of Leon's statement regarding the badge is that there were jillions of different private labels of which Pioneer was one. While it could be read either way I doubt that Leon was suggesting it is a particularly common badge.  

Badges are a world unto themselves and obviously, in the case of standard etched brass badges on standard blanks, other than the hours spent creating the original artwork they all originally cost the same to make. 

Specific badges also typically were not indicative of the equipment level of the model they were affixed to; I imagine Pioneer badges went out the door on low-line and high-line models alike. I have no idea what the survival rate or the current count of Pioneer badges is in the Hobby but it is likely that other than trial or show badges any factory issued Schwinn badge used in production was made in numbers greater than 100.

To that end it is collectors today that have elevated some badges to high collector status for the combination of the specific qualities of their designs and their apparent rareness in the Hobby. While a Pioneer badge is not intrinsically “better” than a World badge you wouldn’t know that when you go to buy one.


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## flyroy (Jun 30, 2010)

*Nice Bike!*

Hi,  I like your bike.   I'm  currently restoring a DX of similar vintage.  Your front fender design interests me.  The chevron seems to be a bit shorter than others I've seen. Would you mind posting a photo of the chevron straight on?  How far does it extend from the front of the fender to the tip of the angle? Is there pinstriping on the front fender?
My bike doesn't have a badge but the holes are about 55mm apart.  Does this correspond with yours?  
Thanks


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## dbelcher (Jul 1, 2010)

Yes, there is pin stripes on both front and rear extending throughout both fenders. I will get the pics and measurments for you after work today. 

Dylan



flyroy said:


> Hi,  I like your bike.   I'm  currently restoring a DX of similar vintage.  Your front fender design interests me.  The chevron seems to be a bit shorter than others I've seen. Would you mind posting a photo of the chevron straight on?  How far does it extend from the front of the fender to the tip of the angle? Is there pinstriping on the front fender?
> My bike doesn't have a badge but the holes are about 55mm apart.  Does this correspond with yours?
> Thanks


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## J_Westy (Jul 1, 2010)

RMS37 said:


> My interpretation of Leon's statement regarding the badge is that there were jillions of different private labels of which Pioneer was one. While it could be read either way I doubt that Leon was suggesting it is a particularly common badge.
> 
> Badges are a world unto themselves and obviously, in the case of standard etched brass badges on standard blanks, other than the hours spent creating the original artwork they all originally cost the same to make.
> 
> ...




FWIW, that was my interpretation of "jillions" too.

When it comes to anything like this it's
- supply and demand
- condition
- timing -- whether or not someone wants it the same time as you do


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## dbelcher (Jul 1, 2010)

Just curious... What kind of market is out their for badges in general. Is it a common hobby, does anyone know someone that is passionate about collecting them? Maybe someone who know's alot about the subject could tell me more about the pioneer badge...


J_Westy said:


> FWIW, that was my interpretation of "jillions" too.
> 
> When it comes to anything like this it's
> - supply and demand
> ...


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## cyclingday (Jul 1, 2010)

I am not a headbadge expert by any means, but it is my understanding that the Pioneer badge is one of the hardest Schwinn labeled badges to find. And by Schwinn labeled, I mean the badge says Arnold Schwinn & Co. somewhere on the badge.The other Holy Grail badges so to speak are the Mission badge the Chicago badge and the Northwest Patrol badge. They are very rare indeed, and don't let some expert tell you they're not, because I'm sure that he will be the first one to offer you a low ball figure hoping that you will sell it before you get wise to what you have.  There is a reason that a lot of time and expense went into reproducing those badges recently. It is because they are very disireable and hard to come by. I am personally against reproducing something like a rare headbadge, because after all, it is, its antiquity and scarcity that makes it disireable.
 As for what the Pioneer badge signifies, Who knows? What Phil said was absolutely correct. The badge didn't label the bike as any particular model. It was used more as a dealers mark. Ace badged bikes were sold through hardware stores and B.F. Goodrich badged bikes were sold through tire stores etc. I was told of a theory once by an avid collector and picker who has scoured the countryside for bikes, that the Schwinn badged bikes seem to have had a regional quality about them. He has seen more World badged bikes turn up in the Pacific Northwest and more Excelsior badged bikes turn up in the Southwest. I thought that concept was interesting because it made sense. If gave Schwinn a way to know which bikes were destined for which segment of the marketplace. Whether that is true or not, who knows? That can only be verified by someone who has picked the country for original condition bikes that haven't been traded around, and they're not too many bikes found like that anymore.
 The value of the Pioneer badge is dependent on who wants it and when. If it is the only original badge that a collector does not have, then he or she will pay pretty well for it. On a good day, with several bidders vying for it, it could sell for upwards of 
$500.00 
 Now don't get excited! 
That takes a perfect set of circumstances for that to happen.
 But!
 It has been known to happen.


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## dbelcher (Jul 4, 2010)

Thank you for the information; very helpful! 

Anyone know good literature/information on proper restoration techinques/tips? I have been relativley conservative w/ any cleaning or restoring. I would appreciate any feedback on best practices


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## dbelcher (Jul 10, 2010)

*For Sale *

Hello Everyone, 

After much hesitation we have decided to move forward & sell the bike. The truth is neither one of us are collectors, and know virtually nothing about restoring the bike. We would rather sell it to some one who will enjoy it & bring it back to life : ) 

We thought about ebay, but the site requires payment for silly things ie. Posting more then one picture. 

Any advice on a good site to post the item (preferably free) would be greatly appreciated!! 

I should mention - The bike will be posted as one piece. We will not be parting the item out. We have had a blast learning about the bike and appreciate all the helpful feed back! 

Thanks as always -


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## dbelcher (Jul 10, 2010)

I have got a few emails on reserves - fyi: Reserve 300.00 will be minimum bid. Also, shipping will be responsibility of buyer. 

Thanks,



dbelcher said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> After much hesitation we have decided to move forward & sell the bike. The truth is neither one of us are collectors, and know virtually nothing about restoring the bike. We would rather sell it to some one who will enjoy it & bring it back to life : )
> 
> ...


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## dbelcher (Nov 5, 2010)

For Sale Now On Ebay!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260688112641


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## dbelcher (Nov 13, 2010)

For Sale now On Ebay 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=260688112641 

ONLY TWO DAYS LEFT. BID PRICE AS TONIGHT 137.5


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## dbelcher (Nov 13, 2010)

For Sale now On Ebay!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=260688112641 

ONLY TWO DAYS LEFT!!!!!!!!!!! BID PRICE AS TONIGHT *137.5 * Great Deal!!!!


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## old hotrod (Nov 13, 2010)

OK, so you post today and later-same day you pull the listing? Why waste everyones time? Not cool...


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## raidingclosets (Nov 13, 2010)

It's still for sale if you just search by the item number 260688112641 .  The link was apparently bad, not my bike,  just clearing up the confusion.


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## old hotrod (Nov 14, 2010)

Yeah, it is posted elsewhere with a good link...I appologize..


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## Larmo63 (Nov 15, 2010)

I still stand by what I said before that was probably taken down off of this site about a certain Bicycle Mr.-Know-It-All. He wants money to tell you what kind of bike you have and how much of it is wrong. I have known these kinds of guys in all sorts of collectibles; EVERYTHING they have is the sh*t, and EVERYTHING you have is crap. I LIKE everyone putting in their two cents, and I think that is how we all learn. I don't care if they are DIY people. Mr. Know-It-All must be a very unhappy individual. I like the guy here who gives his wonderful knowledge free and openly, and doesn't act holier than thou. (rms37) He is my hero.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Nov 22, 2013)

Larmo63 said:


> I still stand by what I said before that was probably taken down off of this site about a certain Bicycle Mr.-Know-It-All. He wants money to tell you what kind of bike you have and how much of it is wrong. I have known these kinds of guys in all sorts of collectibles; EVERYTHING they have is the sh*t, and EVERYTHING you have is crap. I LIKE everyone putting in their two cents, and I think that is how we all learn. I don't care if they are DIY people. Mr. Know-It-All must be a very unhappy individual. I like the guy here who gives his wonderful knowledge free and openly, and doesn't act holier than thou. (rms37) He is my hero.




Anybody ever notice they are arrow head shaped?.. Think Oregon trail and  pioneers.. The sportier badge same shape is from twin fall Idaho, the other arrow head one is some sporting goods store in Seattle. Maybe pioneer came from Oregon eh?.


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