# The Potential of a 2020 Orange Krate: An Evaluation of Original Condition and Potential



## cbustapeck (Oct 22, 2020)

TL;DR: Build quality is cheaper than vintage Krates, but for $500, you definitely get $500 of Krate. The post also contains details of how I modified mine.

To begin,
Before:





After:




As it sits, the 2020 Orange Krate is a decent bike. As I see it, it's not about copying a Krate but being the _idea _of being a Krate. It's about the Krate _experience_, and that it does quite well. Yes, there are a good few issues, which I will detail, but I still think that you are getting your money's worth.





For $500, you have a running Krate with bright chrome and paint and solid new tires. While it doesn't look exactly like a 1970 Krate, it also doesn't have the liabilities of a 1970 Krate in this condition. Take it out in the rain without worry. Install accessories without worrying that they might scratch it. Modify it, even, as you see fit.

Yes, there are a few people who will see that it isn't a 1970 bike, most will just see a 40 year old guy riding a really fun bike with a huge grin on his face.

I've done a good bit of work to modify this bike to look more like a vintage Orange Krate. The most glaring issues have been addressed via common, readily available vintage Schwinn parts.

Her name, by the way, is Gloria, because she is almost Day-Glo orange.

The Build:

An Orange Krate with a warehouse damaged box showed up on Amazon at a price that I just could not refuse. While I was awaiting the delivery, I began planning, figuring out issues, and setting aside parts that I had sitting around, almost all of which had come from a couple circa 1970 Schwinn road bikes.






The chainring and the neck bugged me the most, and were the first to be swapped out. One could go with a Schwinn "Mag" sprocket, if one really wanted to, but the price doesn't seem worth it. That said, if I can find a cheap one at Memory Lane, I'll probably jump on it. I also went with Krate* pedals. Because of the shape of the chainring, I did have to use a washer as a spacer to move it away from the frame a little bit. The stem was swapped without issue.

*I am not sure if they are actually Krate correct or just close, and I really don't care to go down that rabbit hole. They look correct, and for me, that's good enough.

Hardware:

The Philips-head screws, bolts, and some other fasteners came next on the list. To me, they really stand out, and are an easy fix. The biggest challenge here is that the fasteners on the 2020 Krate are all metric. The easiest swap was to replace the screws on the fenders with rivet screws. The chain guard was a bit more difficult, as both of the holes were threaded. I tapped both of them out to the correct size and installed vintage screws.

I replaced the bolt on the seat clamp, and intend to replace the seat clamp itself, but because of size differences, that is going to require some quality time with a Dremel and file. The bolts that hold the sissy bar bracket and fender to the frame were replaced with modern ones.

The front wheel nuts are next on the agenda. To my surprise, none of the obvious places - not even McMaster-Carr - have straight M9x1 nuts! (They're all either flared or domed or lock nuts.) I'm going to see what lurks at the swap meet tomorrow. I may just go with flared nuts.

Wheels and brakes:

Both wheels feature somewhat polished aluminum rims, 28 hole in the rear and 36 hole in the front. The rear uses a coaster brake. The front wheel has a Sturmey Archer drum brake. Curiously, rather than the brake arm attaching to the frame via a strap, a piece has been welded to the fork for it to slide into. I presume that this is to make assembly easier for the lay person.

I really really really thought that I wanted a Schwinn Stik Shift. It's, like, the coolest, right? So I needed gears to shift. I had a couple Sturmey Archer three speed hubs, but they were all for 36 spoke rims.

On eBay, in the UK, I stumbled upon a 28 hole Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub with a drum brake, made in 1970! It's not quite the level of cool of a disc brake, but it's getting there.

When I built the rear wheel with the new hub, I polished it beforehand. While it is more shiny, it's worth remembering that aluminum shows marks far more readily than chrome.

The brake levers were replaced with period Weinmann yellow dot levers.

The gears are to be shifted by a thumb shifter, because the stik shift is too expensive and I like having the clear space on the top tube.

The next step is to get the cables installed. The big challenge there is figuring out the routing of the drum brake cable. I really don't want to run it along the bottom tube, because I don't like that aesthetic.

More to follow in the next post. For now, enjoy some images of the best 2020 Orange Krate around. (I'd love to see a better example. I'd be curious about what they did.)


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## phantom (Oct 22, 2020)

Here is a cheap Wal Mart BFK that I spent some money on and put it on CL a few years ago. Made a wad on it.


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## cbustapeck (Oct 22, 2020)

phantom said:


> Here is a cheap Wal Mart BFK that I spent some money on and put it on CL a few years ago. Made a wad on it.View attachment 1288956



Nice build. I think you may have convinced me that I need orange and white cable wraps for my bike.


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## kostnerave (Oct 22, 2020)

I really like the spirit of your bike. It totally embodies the attitude we took with our bikes as kids. We used to take junked bikes, take them apart, swap parts and rattle can them in crazy model paint colors. Then, with paper route and allowance money in hand, we'd head down to the Western Auto for a cool headlight, sparkle saddle or a slick tire. I learned a lot about bikes, things that I use to this day! Please post pictures of your progress and thanks for sparking some great memories.


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## GTs58 (Oct 22, 2020)

Tuff looking ride. Thanks for posting your unbiased evaluation.


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## Mr. Monkeyarms (Oct 23, 2020)

Very cool thread! Nice job on the bike!


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## Jasruy (Oct 23, 2020)

Great job, I always enjoy reading about your projects.


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## cbustapeck (Oct 24, 2020)

kostnerave said:


> I really like the spirit of your bike. It totally embodies the attitude we took with our bikes as kids. We used to take junked bikes, take them apart, swap parts and rattle can them in crazy model paint colors. Then, with paper route and allowance money in hand, we'd head down to the Western Auto for a cool headlight, sparkle saddle or a slick tire. I learned a lot about bikes, things that I use to this day! Please post pictures of your progress and thanks for sparking some great memories.



I hadn't thought about it that way. Thank you for that insight!


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## OZ1972 (Oct 30, 2020)

Nice work man , ride it enjoy it with a big smile , nicely said & done !!!!!!!


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Oct 31, 2020)

Really Nicely done, I would love a crate but the new ones are the only ones in my price range. Your right the huge grin is a good gage of a bikes intrinsic value. I'm reconsidering buying a repo then i will have one in my collection.


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## cbustapeck (Oct 31, 2020)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Really Nicely done, I would love a crate but the new ones are the only ones in my price range. Your right the huge grin is a good gage of a bikes intrinsic value. I'm reconsidering buying a repo then i will have one in my collection.




My big thought from all of this is to not go into it expecting to get a copy of a 1970 (or whatever) Krate. What you are getting is a great embodiment of the *idea* and *feel* of what a Krate is supposed to be. 

Do it!


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## gben (Nov 5, 2020)

How many of you had an Orange Krate Schwinn 40 or more years ago before they were collectors items?  I did and I gave it away when I moved out of my parents house. It was heavy and the springer front was not as stable at high-speed as a standard front fork. Kids don't need five-speeds like that Krate had either, just one more thing to break and ad weight. But it is the "American Way" to always want more of anything and participate in fashion trends, and that is all the Krate is here for now and the only reason it was here in the 60s.


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## cbustapeck (Nov 5, 2020)

Additional thoughts:

The hand grips are really sticky, not like the hard, smooth surface that 1960s have. They pick up grease marks from dirty hands really easily. If you aren't regularly working on your bike, it may not be an issue, but for me, it's almost enough to make me want to replace them.
I ride my old bikes cautiously. There's something really nice about being able to ride a bike, well, like a new bike with a warranty. I realized this when I pulled hard on the handlebars the other day and they flexed a little. Rather than thinking "Shoot, how much are similar bars going to cost to obtain, if I can find them", I thought "They shouldn't be so flimsy - but that's what the warranty is for." It's a lot less stress, which makes for a more fun ride - which is what this is all about, I think.


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## Bman212 (Nov 8, 2020)

Regarding the drum cable routing... why not route it as if running a disc brake cable?


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## cbustapeck (Nov 10, 2020)

Bman212 said:


> Regarding the drum cable routing... why not route it as if running a disc brake cable?



I like that idea, but running it on the upper stay would require attaching the arm to the upper stay, which, visually, feels really weird to me.

Or, I could be totally misunderstanding what you are saying. Here's where I am:






Here's the drum arm as installed. Note that I am missing the return spring (and am actively looking for one) and that I used the axle nut I used because it was the only one I had handy that fit!





Illustration of the intended cable routing, detail of this document, from Hadland's Blog. 




From what I can tell, the cable is going to have to pull, approximately, on the line illustrated below, in order for there to be enough leverage.





I appreciate any and all thoughts on this matter. Thank you.


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## Bman212 (Nov 15, 2020)

I honestly forgot that the disc is a vertical pull back there. I also agree that moving the lever to the upper stay is a bad visual.


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## Bman212 (Nov 15, 2020)

I bet you could route the cable into the mechanism as shown in the illustration but backwards with some adaptation. Put the adjustment screw pointing rear wards so that the cable housing lops out the back and up the rear stay. The cable would mount statically at the front of the brake lever and the housing would move dynamically at the rear... not sure if that makes any sense?


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## cbustapeck (Nov 16, 2020)

Bman212 said:


> I bet you could route the cable into the mechanism as shown in the illustration but backwards with some adaptation. Put the adjustment screw pointing rear wards so that the cable housing lops out the back and up the rear stay. The cable would mount statically at the front of the brake lever and the housing would move dynamically at the rear... not sure if that makes any sense?



I don't think I'm understanding. Are you thinking something like this?


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## cbustapeck (Nov 18, 2020)

Major note: 
The Orange Krate comes with plain orange paint and a metallic seat.
The Grape Krate comes with a lovely metallic paint and a flat purple seat.


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## sambo42xa (Nov 20, 2020)

Great job on Your project. Would love to see the finished bike!
amazon got them now at $800.


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## Bman212 (Nov 20, 2020)

Thinking more like this where the orange line is the sleeved cable with the pink being exposed cable. The orange cable would move forward when the brake is pulled, hence the largish loop to get it into position.


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## cbustapeck (Nov 21, 2020)

Bman212 said:


> View attachment 1304678Thinking more like this where the orange line is the sleeved cable with the pink being exposed cable. The orange cable would move forward when the brake is pulled, hence the largish loop to get it into position.



I understand the concept behind what you are saying.

However, there's one thing I need help with. How do you make the 180 degree turn between the sleeved (orange) and unsleeved (pink) portion?




Were you thinking a pulley like one often finds with a three speed shifter, but with a custom mount to fit on the chain stay? (I cannot find any with brackets designed to fit on that small of a tube.)

I really like the idea, I'm just trying to understand how to make it work. Thank you!


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## Rollfast4T1 (Nov 21, 2020)

Fun post!  Enjoying a fun little machine is what it’s all about. 
All this joy so close to the merriest of holidays!  Hoping some Schwinn-kid gets one under the tree and rolls with Big Pappa!


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## Bman212 (Nov 21, 2020)

More like this. The cable is now anchored in the forward position and the brake arm still moves forward but the threaded sleeve end/adjuster goes into a pivot barrel at the location where the cable used to terminate.


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## Bman212 (Nov 21, 2020)

The screw at the terminus of the cable can be your run of the mill brake caliper screw off any normal handbrake setup. The cable sleeve terminator at the barrel nut could also come from the same brake caliper.the threaded piece is in the factory drawing you posted with the note of “b”.


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## cbustapeck (Nov 21, 2020)

Bman212 said:


> View attachment 1305022
> More like this. The cable is now anchored in the forward position and the brake arm still moves forward but the threaded sleeve end/adjuster goes into a pivot barrel at the location where the cable used to terminate.



Thank you so much for drawing this out! I really really appreciate it, and so would not have understood it otherwise. 

I still don't understand the mechanics of it, I must confess, but I understand the setup, and I have a strong feeling that once I have it in my hands, it will make sense. (I'm just waiting for the parts to arrive.)


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## Bman212 (Nov 21, 2020)

If you post pix once it shows up I’m sure we can come up with something that will work and look good.


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## cbustapeck (Nov 24, 2020)

Some updates on the build, and some notes about the merits and lack thereof of this bicycle.

In my replacement of the sprocket, I had put one of the bottom bracket bearings in backwards. (Say that five times fast!) I ordered a replacement bearing set, with new cups, etc. Note: this crank is 24tpi.

I thought it was really cool the way the metal stretched.









The new bearings are on the right.






Remember the 1968 Fastback that I had on offer? I swapped the Mag sprocket and pedals over onto this bike, then sold the remainder and broke even on that project. It's important to note that this frame and the stock sprocket, which is flat, were meant to fit each other. A sprocket such as this one needs to be bumped out a bit.

I used two crank lock washer-sized washers, which provide just enough clearance. I think a third wouldn't be a bad idea, as it is awfully close. The washers are between the bearing cone and the sprocket, so I would hope that this isn't an exceedingly bad idea, but this is really outside my knowledge set. My concern is that the washers are moving the center of motion away from the stability of the bottom bracket. Hivemind, what do you think?





I didn't realize it, but the "Mag" sprocket is a bit bigger than the previous one, so I am going to need a bit more chain.

Totally unrelated, but came to mind with this picture: I found some clear purple dice valve caps for the Grape Krate I am selling, but I haven't been able to find any orange ones at a similar price point. Has anyone seen them?









What holds my umbrella? Why, a Campagnolo "umbrella" pump bracket.

I saw the baseball bat holders that some people have installed on their Stingrays, and while very cool, I thought that not quite my style. I was looking for interesting brackets and bits to use on this project, and came across this. Such a fun little bit of metal, a perfect fit, and what better to hold with it than an umbrella?





Wing-type nuts for bicycle axles are available in a wide variety of styles, though almost all seem to be for standard, rather than metric threads. These are some of the few that are out there for M9x1, and had to be ordered from France.

Yes, I am kind of thrilled by the look.









Opposite the Campagnolo pump bracket sits this Shimano one, ordered from Portugal. It was just so cool that I could not resist. It will be solely decorative.





I've finally arrived on a speedometer that feels right. Big surprise as to what it is, eh? I liked the Clipper, but I could never get it to sit properly in place.

The stock axle does not have enough space to fit a Schwinn speedometer drive. I tried an older gear-driven one, but the cable didn't match up with this speedo head.





I have a plastic speedometer drive that is designed to roll against the wheel. It's cute, but would require fabricating a mounting bracket and a new drive cable. I'm not sure that it fits well enough to justify the cost, and I'm not 100% convinced that it would work visually once done.

I think that the speedometer is more about looks than anything, so I've decided I am totally content to just have it sit there.





Next step: Waiting on some NOS Sturmey Archer hardware to be delivered from Belgium.






As well as a really cute little bicycle license plate.




Once I have that all together, I'll work with the very kind @Bman212 to figure out the cable routing for the drum brake.

I found a $30 metallic purple with white "S" stripe seat cover for the Grape Krate and ordered it. If it's as good as I expect, I will be ordering a metallic orange one for this bike and hopefully install it.

With that done, it's off to the shop.

I already have the cable on hand for the brakes and hopefully derailleur. It's the visual effect that I've always had in mind, and I think the slightly vintage look will help. It only cost 2.5 times the cost of new plain cable and seemed worth it for the effect. Note: I have a third, not pictured here.





I picked up this bicycle for the Shimano Nexus 7 hub, shifter, and wheel set. It's my hope to trade the remainder of the bicycle, at the shop, for: balancing the rear wheel (I did a bad job of building it); cable finishing and calibration; the remainder of the chain, and whatever else needs to be done. Maybe there will be a little bit of cash involved and they will handle the seat cover.


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## cbustapeck (Dec 3, 2020)

I added a couple links to the chain for the Schwinn "Mag" sprocket, and, having seen it, I'm starting to think I may want to switch back to the Mag-style one. I've been modeling this after a 1970 Krate, and the genuine "Mag" sprocket was an obvious upgrade that I really wanted, and jumped on when I had a chance to get one at the right price, but I'm not 100% sure that it's right at this point. 

The Schwinn "Mag" sprocket that I am using came from a 1968 Fastback, and it's slightly larger than the Mag-style one I had previously. To my eyes, it's obviously bigger, and it puts the chain guard at slightly more of an angle. I think it may be too big for the space. 

As an artist, I am kind of torn: Do I go for the sprocket where the proportions feel just right or do I go for the one that is more "cool"? I'm going to start with the question below:

Were the genuine "Mag" sprockets available in multiple sizes? 

Thanks as always.


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## daverup (Dec 14, 2020)

@cbustapeck ,
Thanks for inspiration in this thread. I just modded up a Coal Krate similar to what you have done.
I don't have good pictures, as it is snowy here now. I'll share one small image.


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## cbustapeck (Dec 14, 2020)

daverup said:


> @cbustapeck ,
> Thanks for inspiration in this thread. I just modded up a Coal Krate similar to what you have done.
> I don't have good pictures, as it is snowy here now. I'll share one small image.
> 
> View attachment 1319779



Those chrome parts suit the bike well. I especially like the pedals - they really look good.


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