# Elgin Help



## recyclery2@aol.com (Sep 8, 2008)

Here I have a skip tooth elgin with aluminum fenders.  I would appreciate any help identifying it with precision.





















thanks in advance,

Nate


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## Aeropsycho (Sep 8, 2008)

*Elgin Oreol*

1936? 1937? Rare bike I have never seen a tank yours has very rare Aluminum fenders:eek: 

There is a frame on Ebay right now...

J A M I E


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## RMS37 (Sep 8, 2008)

Hi

Your bike is an Elgin Oriole which was made by Westfield Manufacturing (Columbia) for Sears. Variations of this bike were listed in the Sears Catalog from 1936 through 1938. 

While your bike has a bad case of rust, it is a desirable model and is restorable. The Aluminum fenders are especially hard to find in restorable condition as they were more prone to crash damage than steel fenders

These bikes turn up occasionally but are not common. The basic frame is very similar to a late Robin or a 1938 Bluebird with the addition of the lower top tube. While the Robin has a hanging tank and the 38 Bluebird has a full coverage tank that mimics the earlier Bluebird, no tank was produced for or to fit the Oriole model.  

There should be 2 serial numbers stamped on the bottom of the crank hanger which would help pin down when the bicycle was actually made.

Phil


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## recyclery2@aol.com (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks for your help.  Is this something that I should restore or just leave it hang in the rafters?  the chrome rims are pitted as well as the handle bars and all of the other chrome.  So I was thinking of a silver powder coat or paint. what do you think?  thanks again!


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## RMS37 (Sep 9, 2008)

Here is some information that might help with your decision. I may have overwritten my response, but I think the following sums up the areas to consider with regard to what to do with your Oriole.

*Sentimental Attachment*
The first thing to consider is your attachment to this particular bicycle. Often an old bicycle has sentimental value either due to being inherited from a family member or because the purchase of the bicycle is connected to a special event.

If you have the bicycle for sentimental reasons keeping it or restoring it might come down to those reasons above the actual value of the bicycle in monetary, collectible, aesthetic and usability terms.

If this isn’t the case then you might consider its value to you with respect to the other four factors.

*Monetary Value and Restoration*

If you base your decision on pure monetary terms, the first thing to do is determine the current market value of the bicycle as-is, calculate the cost of restoration, and compare those numbers to the potential market value of the finished product. Then determine what the bike is worth to you in dollars and cents as-is versus restored.

Judging from your photos, in the current collector bike market the value of your bike is in the frame and fenders. I would guess the frame and fork to be valued around $75-$100 and the fenders to be valued at about twice that amount provided there is no substantial damage beyond what is shown in the photographs. The rest of the parts have some value depending on how well they clean up, but none of them in general are rare enough to be worth restoring over the cost of finding exact replacements in better condition.

While Orioles are uncommon and significant members of the Prewar Elgin balloon tire family, they are not the most highly valued models. I would expect that an original Oriole in exceptional condition might be worth more than $1000.00 dollars to some collectors. On the other hand, it would not be easy to sell a perfectly restored Oriole for that much in today’s market. To restore an Oriole to “Perfect” condition would require that the bike and all its parts and finishes are returned to an exact match to their condition when the bike was new. Between research, gathering restorable parts, painting and plating, you could easily exceed an investment of $2000.00 attaining that level of accuracy in any bicycle restoration.

Many owners decrease the cost of restoration by doing all or part of it without out side help. Indeed many collectors are in the hobby because restoration is something they enjoy. If you are a professional plater or have skill painting you may be able reduce the cost of a high quality restoration substantially.  If these are skills you are interested in learning you may want to hone them on old bicycles.  

Regardless of skill, most amateur, and many “professional” restorations fall far short of nailing the look and feel of an original. This is one of the reasons that the market currently favors original bikes over restorations.  While a lesser level of restoration is not likely to devalue the frame and fenders, (unless the fenders are damaged during polishing or though exchanging the original stays for ones in better condition or incorrect replacements) an amateur restoration is unlikely to add any real money to the market value of the bicycle.

*Collectibility*

If you are a collector or considering collecting bicycles the bike could serve you well in as-is condition. Many bicycle collectors end up having large collections of bikes and develop a wish-list of particular models they would like to add to their collections. Most Elgin and many other Pre-war balloon collectors would like to have an Oriole in their collection. It is a desirable and uncommon bike and your original bike would make a good place holder in a collection or might clean-up or be amendable to present better than it does now. Some collectors have found and sold an uncommon bike early in their collecting only to later regret having let it go.  

*Aesthetics*

There is a lot of variation in the design of balloon bicycles which is one of the reasons collectors are drawn to them in the first place. As a collector becomes more involved in the hobby they often are drawn to extending their collections to bicycles based on the manufacturer and the look of the model. Elgins are very popular and the Oriole is a distinctive looking bicycle with a lot of style despite its lack of a tank or extreme accessories. If you are new to collecting you may not have seen enough balloon bicycles to have formed an opinion in this area. If you are considering collecting bicycles or even just having one, you might consider how you like the general look of the Oriole compared to other bikes that are available.

*Usability*

Old bikes can be enjoyable to look at, to display for others, and to ride. The fun of riding an old bicycle relates to the conditions of the ride and the condition of the bicycle. Unless you are very fit, riding an old bicycle is most fun on a slow, flat, short course. Typically pre-war balloon bicycle have only one gear ratio (which is somewhat high) and reasonable brakes as long as you are not in heavy traffic or going down a steep hill. The mechanicals of balloon bicycles are fairly simple and generally (barring frame damage) cleaning the hub internals and re-greasing all the bearing is all that is required to make an old bicycle ride-able.  


To summarize the above, there are several things to consider in making a decision to restore the bike, keep it as is, make it ride-able, or sell it. The Elgin Oriole is a distinctive bicycle and worth keeping if you are attracted to the design of the bicycle or if you have a sentimental attachment to it. With some gentle cleaning you could upgrade the condition and still have an original bike. 

A true restoration would be expensive and the money invested would not likely be recoverable in today’s market if you decide to sell the bike. 

As the Oriole is a complete original bike I would advise against powder coating or painting the original parts. If you are considering making the bike ride able but not interested in spending for a full restoration, you would be ahead to set aside any original parts that are in poor shape aside and find replacements. Both period and modern replacement parts can be had to make the bicycle ride-able for less than the cost of incorrectly restoring the original parts and you will still have the correct parts available if you decide to restore or sell the bike at a later date.

Lastly, if you are not attached to the bike sentimentally or aesthetically you might want to consider selling it or trading it for a less rare model in better condition.

I hope the above information is helpful to you in deciding which route to take.

Phil


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## Aeropsycho (Sep 9, 2008)

*Chain Guard!!!*

It looks like you have the very very rare "Wood Chuck Chuck" Chain Guard as well...He He.. 

Dr. Phil you need to write a book!!! 

I would just restore it the best way you can but don't.....powder coat! 

Start riding it because that is what was made for!!! 


J A M I E


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## recyclery2@aol.com (Sep 9, 2008)

Phil and Jamie I appreciate all of your help.  I think I will leave it as is and put some new tires on it and ride it!! I love the bike, it is a huge frame.  It has a top tube of 26.5 inches.  thanks again for the info.  peace,

Nate


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