# Elgin Help!!!



## carlitos60 (Jun 12, 2013)

Fellow CABE Old Timers, I Do Consider Some of You Experts!

I'm wondering what did I Just Purchase?

Any Help would be Nice!

SN: L16241
















I Hope I didn't Mess Up Too Much!


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## fordmike65 (Jun 12, 2013)

Looks like a bent Blackhawk to me.

http://www.nostalgic.net/bicycle939


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## jkent (Jun 12, 2013)

Looks to be a 1935 Elgin Black Hawk missing the tank and rack.


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## carlitos60 (Jun 12, 2013)

fordmike65 said:


> Looks like a bent Blackhawk to me.
> 
> http://www.nostalgic.net/bicycle939





Thanks!!

I know is in Rough Condition but:

What seems Original or Other Brands!

Is The Serial # Right for 1935?


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## catfish (Jun 12, 2013)

Yea that's a Blackhawk. Or a Falcon. You need these parts.


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## carlitos60 (Jun 12, 2013)

catfish said:


> Yea that's a Blackhawk. Or a Falcon. You need these parts.






LOL!

I know,,,,,,but I just can't Afford them!

I'm keeping it a Rusty Rat so If you can find me something more Rough Condition;
that I might be able to buy; we're in business!

Hey!! Are the Only things Original:  The Frame and Crank????

Thanks!


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## scrubbinrims (Jun 12, 2013)

It's a Blackhawk, but the frame is jacked up...headtube is almost perpendicular to the ground and the downtube is bent.
Sorry, straighten it out before you buy parts that won't fit.
Chris


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## carlitos60 (Jun 12, 2013)

*What????*



scrubbinrims said:


> It's a Blackhawk, but the frame is jacked up...headtube is almost perpendicular to the ground and the downtube is bent.
> Sorry, straighten it out before you buy parts that won't fit.
> Chris





What!!!!!

Are You Kidding Me!!!!

Should I Ask for My Money Back!

Did I Screwed Up Badly?

LMK:o


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## fordmike65 (Jun 12, 2013)

fordmike65 said:


> Looks like a bent Blackhawk to me.
> 
> http://www.nostalgic.net/bicycle939






That's why I posted above that you had a *BENT* Blackhawk. It looks pretty bad actually. I'd be pissed too.


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## carlitos60 (Jun 12, 2013)

fordmike65 said:


> That's why I posted above that you had a *BENT* Blackhawk. It looks pretty bad actually. I'd be pissed too.




I'll just place a Claim thru Paypal and request my money!!

Thanks Guy!!!!


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## fordmike65 (Jun 12, 2013)

See the difference in the headtube angle and how close the rear of the tire is to the downtube. I think these may be different years or manufacturers,but you get the idea. No bueno


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## carlitos60 (Jun 12, 2013)

fordmike65 said:


> See the difference in the headtube angle and how close the rear of the tire is to the downtube. I think these may be different years or manufacturers,but you get the idea. No bueno






I get It!

Thanks for the Help!

I'll get on it tomorrow!


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## carlitos60 (Jun 13, 2013)

*Why?????*

I'm just wondering "WHY" No One said anything "Positive" about the:

Wheels / Tires

Fork

Drop Stand

Seat (Lobdell)

Crank

I had to Ask!!!!

Thanks!


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## RMS37 (Jun 13, 2013)

carlitos60 said:


> I'm just wondering "WHY" No One said anything "Positive" about the: Wheels / Tires, Fork, Drop Stand, Seat (Lobdell), Crank
> 
> I had to Ask!!!!
> 
> Thanks!




The most significant thing about this bike to most collectors is the frame, and much of the rest of the package is not original to that frame.

  The upside of this bike/frame is that the serial number, L16241, indicates the frame was produced in 1933 which makes it one of the earliest Westfield built, Twinbar type frames produced. That makes the frame worth the cost/time involved to repair it properly in my opinion. Realistically though, the cost to rebuild it properly (just the frame!) will outstrip the market value the work would add to the unit.    

   These frames are less triangulated than most common balloon frames and are therefore more susceptible to visible and extreme distortion when crashed. This frame has been heavily foreshortened from a front end impact and it also looks like the joint between the top tubes and the headtube has been welded to repair a break that probably resulted from the same crash. The other area that looks like it will need work is the seat tube and seat clamp. It looks like the original binder and an inch or more of the tube has been cut out and a replacement clamp has been substituted.

   The drop stand and the crank/chainring both look like potentially original fitting for the bike (and are sought after items) but the fork is actually a Schwinn unit. Most of the rest of the parts on the bike have been added to the frame to produce a "bike" but are not original to it.

   The damage to this frame is relatively common to these frames in general, though somewhat more pronounced than what you usually see. I obviously don’t know who you got the frame from or if any assertions were made about its condition but the damage looks “vintage” and, as likely as not, the seller probably was no more aware of the problem than you were as a purchaser.

  Knowing the frame is damaged there are many options open to you. 

  As is, the bike will probably ride oddly and you could not physically fit an original tank or a front fender. Still, the serial number shows the frame to be an early issue of the Twinbar frame and it retains that significance without any further investment in time or money.  

  With some work the front end can likely be pulled back to a semblance of the normal geometry and you could use it that way as a rat ride or you could put in a more Herculean effort to actually restore this frame and gather the parts to replicate a very early Blackhawk/Falcon. 

  Lastly (and especially if you did not spend too much for it) you could sell it on to someone who either likes it as is or is looking to take on a challenging restoration.


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## scrubbinrims (Jun 13, 2013)

carlitos60 said:


> I'm just wondering "WHY" No One said anything "Positive" about the:
> 
> Wheels / Tires
> 
> ...




I never meant to be negative and on the contrary was trying to help you in spending more resources before correcting a core problem I didn't think you were aware of.

I am making an assumption you are new to the hobby, but my advice would be to get your money back if that were an available option, unless your total investment was less than a few hundred dollars.
Best to save your money and move on the right bike that is more complete and rideable  and you'll be glad you did.

Chris


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## carlitos60 (Jun 13, 2013)

*The Happy CABE Way!!!*

Good Morning!

Although, I Do Appreciate Everyone's Comments; because I am New to This Hubby and that is why I tend to ask many questions!

**RMS37 (Phil Marshall); You Hit a Home Run with All Bases Full!!!!

**Chris; No hard Feelings, is just that I Felt Stomped On!

I did Spend a Few $$$ on the Whole Bike!

Now, I Feel that there is Still Some Hope for the Bike! 

I Will Keep It!
Thanks Everyone!


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## scrubbinrims (Jun 13, 2013)

Well, if that is the case, I have the right fork and fenders (although the rear fender bridge hole is not spaced right and has 2 stays instead of 1) from this '34 balloon tire I picked up I might sell once I can get some attention to it.
Not cheap, not expensive.
Chris


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## carlitos60 (Jun 13, 2013)

*Cool!*



scrubbinrims said:


> Well, if that is the case, I have the right fork and fenders (although the rear fender bridge hole is not spaced right and has 2 stays instead of 1) from this '34 balloon tire I picked up I might sell once I can get some attention to it.
> Not cheap, not expensive.
> Chris
> View attachment 100226




I'll Keep That in Mind!!

For Now, I have to find someone to work on the Frame First!

Thanks!


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## RMS37 (Jun 13, 2013)

scrubbinrims said:


> Well, if that is the case, I have the right fork and fenders (although the rear fender bridge hole is not spaced right and has 2 stays instead of 1) from this '34 balloon tire I picked up I might sell once I can get some attention to it.
> Not cheap, not expensive.
> Chris
> View attachment 100226




Those parts could be made to match the correct original parts and work on the Twinbar frame but the donor fork's steerer tube and the truss rods would have to be lengthened


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## scrubbinrims (Jun 13, 2013)

RMS37 said:


> Those parts could be made to match the correct original parts and work on the Twinbar frame but the donor fork's steerer tube and the truss rods would have to be lengthened




Yep, that's right...a Blackhawk has a 5 inch headtube and my donor has a 3 3/4 inch headtube.
For some reason, I thought this would have been seamless.
Chris


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## bikewhorder (Jun 13, 2013)

I bought some 1" o.d. steel tubing a while back to make a frame with the dramatically curved Elgin style down tube.  If I succeed in bending it up correctly I could probably fix this one too.  But I've got way to many projects that take precedence over this sort of thing (i.e. home repairs) to get to it any time soon, but if you still need it fixed this winter, I might be able to hook you up. -Chris


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## carlitos60 (Jun 13, 2013)

*Cool Offer!!!*



bikewhorder said:


> I bought some 1" o.d. steel tubing a while back to make a frame with the dramatically curved Elgin style down tube.  If I succeed in bending it up correctly I could probably fix this one too.  But I've got way to many projects that take precedence over this sort of thing (i.e. home repairs) to get to it any time soon, but if you still need it fixed this winter, I might be able to hook you up. -Chris







Thanks for the Offer!  But I'm in Puerto Rico!!!

You know; this has turned out to be an Interesting Post for Me!!!!!

Tomorrow I will be on the road to see if some one can help me Down Here!

Thanks Anyways!


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