# Paypal vs Money Orders



## Monarky (May 15, 2014)

As a CABE member I'm seeking everyone's help or advice with members that don't come through with their sales here on the CABE and dishonor the hobby that we all love.  As a buyer I prefer to pay instantly through paypal knowing that it's secure and if something goes wrong I have the protection and recourse of action to settle the manner.  A few weeks ago I purchased a wheelset from another member here on the CABE and paid him with a Money Order due to him not having a paypal account.  I hesitated at first but trusted him on his word of honor.  Since then I have not received my items and have attempted to get a response from him via private messages with no response at all.  Now I am out some seriousness money and trying to see how I can recoup my money... That's why I hate to pay with money orders.  Any words of advice before I put this guy on blast, to prevent others from getting ripped off by him?  Please let me know what you think?  Monarky


----------



## fordmike65 (May 15, 2014)

You say you've attempted to resolve the issue via PM and no response?? I say let Scott know what's going on. If the member still doesnt remedy the situation, call him out! No need for him/her to swindle another member!


----------



## Monarky (May 15, 2014)

fordmike65 said:


> You say you've attempted to resolve the issue via PM and no response?? I say let Scott know what's going on. If the member still doesnt remedy the situation, call him out! No need for him/her to swindle another member!




Yeah you are right Mike.. I'm trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt but I seem to be getting no where and time is just passing.  I didn't know that Scott can help,  I will let him know.  Thanks for your help there Mike


----------



## island schwinn (May 15, 2014)

i would also check with the issuer of the money order.pretty sure you can put a stop payment just like a bank check,then the issuer goes after the other party.
but not as exciting as calling them out on here.hope it works out so the boat doesn't get rocked.


----------



## Monarky (May 15, 2014)

island schwinn said:


> i would also check with the issuer of the money order.pretty sure you can put a stop payment just like a bank check,then the issuer goes after the other party.
> but not as exciting as calling them out on here.hope it works out so the boat doesn't get rocked.




Right on Island Schwinn... I got the money order at the USPS as the seller requested since he didn't have paypal.  Thanks for the tip and your support.  Monarky


----------



## Oldnut (May 16, 2014)

*PayPal*

Why wouldn't a seller use paypal? If the seller doesn't like the charge for using it add it too to cost of the item? It's saved me from getting boinked more than once.


----------



## HIGGINSFOREVER (May 16, 2014)

Just curious are they a new member,what is there post count.Call then out see if any body else had any thing to do with then good or bad.Sometime things happen that a seller cant respond as quick as a buyer would like.If it is a problem and they want to buy or sell from members again here is there chance to set it right.Also the way to call him out would be like hey ------when can I expect my wheel set.


----------



## Crazy8 (May 16, 2014)

Oldnut said:


> Why wouldn't a seller use paypal? If the seller doesn't like the charge for using it add it too to cost of the item? It's saved me from getting boinked more than once.




The reason for not using paypal probably has to do with 'taxes'.  Once you go over the $20,000 mark for the year you are considered a business and paypal sends your totals to the IRS.  Just more political bs that we have to deal with.  Don't know many businesses that can survive on $20,000 a year.  Yet if you are a cash business, like landscaper, construction, restaurant, etc..., you can hide all your cash sales, and the added bonus of keeping the state sales tax you collect as well.  It also gives you the ability to hire illegal aliens and pay them insanely low wages under the table, a problem that prevents American CITIZEN tax payers from finding jobs.

I made Pizza's on Sundays at a local pizza joint a few years back.  The owner told me that the Guatemalan illegal who was working the other 6 days needed more money so he had to give him my Sunday hours.  He sends most of his money home to family in Guatemala.  I have a mortgage, 2 cars, 2 kids, and plenty of other bills.  And he needed the money more than me?


----------



## Nickinator (May 16, 2014)

I have heard you can cancel USPS mo's pretty easily, but maybe only if they are lost, I'd do some quick internet research or call before filing paperwork on it so you know what your story needs to be. 

Also, you can post messages on that CABErs profile, so that he, and everyone else, will see it when they visit his page. A better first action than creating a public post, due to the recent notice of discouraging negative or contentious posts, as it may be removed by a mod.....good luck on it, hope it gets resolved, if it doesn't I'd appreciate a PM with the members name!

Darcie


----------



## HIGGINSFOREVER (May 16, 2014)

Nickinator said:


> I have heard you can cancel USPS mo's pretty easily, but maybe only if they are lost, I'd do some quick internet research or call before filing paperwork on it so you know what your story needs to be.
> 
> Also, you can post messages on that CABErs profile, so that he, and everyone else, will see it when they visit his page. A better first action than creating a public post, due to the recent notice of discouraging negative or contentious posts, as it may be removed by a mod.....good luck on it, hope it gets resolved, if it doesn't I'd appreciate a PM with the members name!
> 
> Darcie



I cant see asking a seller on a public post about something all ready paid for is a negative post.


----------



## Nickinator (May 16, 2014)

HIGGINSFOREVER said:


> I cant see asking a seller on a public post about something all ready paid for is a negative post.




I agree, if it can be done respectfully, it should not be a problem and should be allowed.

Darcie


----------



## bricycle (May 16, 2014)

I prefer to give and recieve via PP. If folks don't mind waiting for $ then m.o.'s is fine by me too...
What often ends up happening is, I transfer PP funds back into my bank acct and it takes 3-4 days before I can even withdraw for a m.o. And on top of that, if that happens on monday, the waiting party has to wait till the FOLLOWING Saturday so I can get to the post office. So if they don't mind waiting 2 weeks for their $, that's ok with me. 
*PS;* I do not send m.o.'s over $75-100 unless I trust the person, as I WANT the protection of PP on larger sums of $.


----------



## rustjunkie (May 16, 2014)

IMO when payment is received thru paypal the added convenience of "Multi-Order Shipping" right from the desk, plus discounted postage rate (saving time thus $, and saving $ on postage) should a sufficient discount for sellers to stop insisting that the buyer pay an extra 3%.
Sort of off-topic I know, but there it is


----------



## bricycle (May 16, 2014)

alw said:


> IMO when payment is received thru paypal the added convenience of "Multi-Order Shipping" right from the desk, plus discounted postage rate (saving time thus $, and saving $ on postage) should a sufficient discount for sellers to stop insisting that the buyer pay an extra 3%.
> Sort of off-topic I know, but there it is




As a buyer, I can't remember the last time I let a seller pay the fees. I have, but it's been a good while.


----------



## rustjunkie (May 16, 2014)

bricycle said:


> As a buyer, I can't remember the last time I let a seller pay the fees. I have, but it's been a good while.




My point: Some sellers complain about fees, but they're already saving the $ as noted above.
Double-dipping.


----------



## Monarky (May 16, 2014)

Monarky said:


> As a CABE member I'm seeking everyone's help or advice with members that don't come through with their sales here on the CABE and dishonor the hobby that we all love.  As a buyer I prefer to pay instantly through paypal knowing that it's secure and if something goes wrong I have the protection and recourse of action to settle the manner.  A few weeks ago I purchased a wheelset from another member here on the CABE and paid him with a Money Order due to him not having a paypal account.  I hesitated at first but trusted him on his word of honor.  Since then I have not received my items and have attempted to get a response from him via private messages with no response at all.  Now I am out some seriousness money and trying to see how I can recoup my money... That's why I hate to pay with money orders.  Any words of advice before I put this guy on blast, to prevent others from getting ripped off by him?  Please let me know what you think?  Monarky




Just wanted to thank everyone for their support and advice. I have already contacted Scott and he is in the process of helping me out with this issue.  I am hoping that with his influence he can resolve it and if not I'm sure we will put him on blast to protect our fellow CABE members.  I will keep you all posted with the outcome.  Thanks Monarky


----------



## Mybluevw (May 16, 2014)

If you paid for goods using a USPS money order and did not receive them then that constitutes mail fraud.
It can be viewed as a felony depending on the value of the goods. Hopefully it won't come to this but if you need to start the mail fraud process I attached a form.

http://ehome.uspis.gov/FCSExternal/pdf/ps8165.pdf

I have gotten a couple of sellers off dead center when I informed them that I was filing a mail fraud claim.


----------



## Nickinator (May 16, 2014)

alw said:


> My point: Some sellers complain about fees, but they're already saving the $ as noted above.
> Double-dipping.




Sorry that I am contributing to this thread going off the rails a bit, but I would like to respond to this beaten to death issue-- I already know what the "discounted" rate of shipping will be thru PP, so if I'm selling say, a $50 fork, I will ask for shipping of $12, tho I will be probably already in the red because the shipping will likely cost more than that once it's boxed and weighed- because it's probably going to ship to California (8 out of 10 items we sell go the West Coast), and it will cost me $15 on postage.

Then there are the costs you forget about- the box, the packing materials, the tape, and the ink and paper for printing. My costs on an item can run as much $12 if I'm having to buy the box, in addition to the postage. That is a direct cost to me, and I'm not charging anyone for it. 

So, PP will charge me 2.7% + .30 per transaction = $1.65 on a $50 Goods payment, my 3% for PP fees from the buyers nets me $1.50. 
Didn't quite cover it, and by no stretch of the imagination am I "double dipping" and profiting from asking for the PP fees. Just trying to recover some of the costs of shipping. 

Darcie


----------



## Nickinator (May 16, 2014)

Mybluevw said:


> If you paid for goods using a USPS money order and did not receive them then that constitutes mail fraud.
> It can be viewed as a felony depending on the value of the goods. Hopefully it won't come to this but if you need to start the mail fraud process I attached a form.
> 
> http://ehome.uspis.gov/FCSExternal/pdf/ps8165.pdf
> ...




That is a great incentive! Good to know.

Darcie


----------



## redline1968 (May 16, 2014)

Since this is a choice I made to sell some stuff. I feel I should input. Why I went this way. First paypal sees it as a business at now 5k.  That's  Fine. but as a hobby, some times I sell at my cost or less.  Getting a 1099 and fee'd for stuff I bought and sold at the same for what I payed for is not fun. Also if some one disagrees when I'm in the right can cause a lock up on the account till it gets settled.   This could take weeks.  So I went with a USPS money order.  The person ( me for example) can be held for fraud. Dealing with the government is worse then paypal. So I choose postal money order for the buyers security. It can be traced and serious problems can arise if something happens.


----------



## rustjunkie (May 16, 2014)

1:... I already know what the "discounted" rate of shipping will be thru PP, so if I'm selling say, a $50 fork, I will ask for shipping of $12, tho I will be probably already in the red because the shipping will likely cost more than that once it's boxed and weighed- because it's probably going to ship to California (8 out of 10 items we sell go the West Coast), and it will cost me $15 on postage.

An issue with postage estimation/charging, not related to paypal.

2: Then there are the costs you forget about- the box, the packing materials, the tape, and the ink and paper for printing. My costs on an item can run as much $12 if I'm having to buy the box, in addition to the postage. That is a direct cost to me, and I'm not charging anyone for it. 

I'm not forgetting this, and am not new to selling online and shipping all over the planet.

3: So, PP will charge me 2.7% + .30 per transaction = $1.65 on a $50 Goods payment, my 3% for PP fees from the buyers nets me $1.50. 
Didn't quite cover it, and by no stretch of the imagination am I "double dipping" and profiting from asking for the PP fees. Just trying to recover some of the costs of shipping. 

Nothing to do with paypal. With the wonderful www all the tools are at our fingertips to quickly and accurately determine a shipping cost.


----------



## catfish (May 16, 2014)

alw said:


> 1:... I already know what the "discounted" rate of shipping will be thru PP, so if I'm selling say, a $50 fork, I will ask for shipping of $12, tho I will be probably already in the red because the shipping will likely cost more than that once it's boxed and weighed- because it's probably going to ship to California (8 out of 10 items we sell go the West Coast), and it will cost me $15 on postage.
> 
> An issue with postage estimation/charging, not related to paypal.
> 
> ...





All good points.


----------



## Nickinator (May 16, 2014)

alw said:


> 1:... I already know what the "discounted" rate of shipping will be thru PP, so if I'm selling say, a $50 fork, I will ask for shipping of $12, tho I will be probably already in the red because the shipping will likely cost more than that once it's boxed and weighed- because it's probably going to ship to California (8 out of 10 items we sell go the West Coast), and it will cost me $15 on postage.
> 
> An issue with postage estimation/charging, not related to paypal.
> 
> ...




Don't want to get into an argument here, we obviously see this very differently; I was just making the point that with all the costs associated in selling bikes and parts, there is no profit for us in simply getting the PP fees covered.  

You'd mentioned the PP discounted shipping as double dipping, so that's why I related it to PP and shipping. Sorry I took offense to that term and inference.

Darcie


----------



## rustjunkie (May 16, 2014)

Nickinator said:


> Don't want to get into an argument here, we obviously see this very differently; I was just making the point that with all the costs associated in selling bikes and parts, there is no profit for us in simply getting the PP fees covered.
> 
> You'd mentioned the PP discounted shipping as double dipping, so that's why I related it to PP and shipping. Sorry I took offense to that term and inference.
> 
> Darcie




Seller gets a monetary and time (for many very valuable) discount when purchasing postage thru paypal.
To ask for an extra 3% in addition to the savings seems like 2 trips to the trough to me


----------



## Monarky (Jun 9, 2014)

Monarky said:


> As a CABE member I'm seeking everyone's help or advice with members that don't come through with their sales here on the CABE and dishonor the hobby that we all love.  As a buyer I prefer to pay instantly through paypal knowing that it's secure and if something goes wrong I have the protection and recourse of action to settle the manner.  A few weeks ago I purchased a wheelset from another member here on the CABE and paid him with a Money Order due to him not having a paypal account.  I hesitated at first but trusted him on his word of honor.  Since then I have not received my items and have attempted to get a response from him via private messages with no response at all.  Now I am out some seriousness money and trying to see how I can recoup my money... That's why I hate to pay with money orders.  Any words of advice before I put this guy on blast, to prevent others from getting ripped off by him?  Please let me know what you think?  Monarky





Update:  after two months I still haven't received my parts or refund from a CABE member that does not accept paypal.  I finally called upon Scott (the CABE administrator) who has offered to help me out by calling this CABE.  I will keep you post on any progress. Thanks.


----------



## Mungthetard (Jun 11, 2014)

After reading this and taking advice from paypal(to contact the FBI) that was effen stupid I feel I've gone over the top with trying to get my funds back , but that doesn't mean I'm gonna stop besmirching a person who's taking money with no intent of sending me my item so with that said I would like to know the outcome of your situation best of luck  
loop


----------



## catfish (Jun 11, 2014)

Mungthetard said:


> After reading this and taking advice from paypal(to contact the FBI) that was effen stupid I feel I've gone over the top with trying to get my funds back , but that doesn't mean I'm gonna stop besmirching a person who's taking money with no intent of sending me my item so with that said I would like to know the outcome of your situation best of luck
> loop




If you pay with a USPS money order and the person stiffs for on the item, I think you can go after them for mail fraud.


----------



## Boris (Jun 11, 2014)

Oldnut said:


> Why wouldn't a seller use paypal?




I know one person who doesn't use credit cards. And even if he did, despite all the claims on how safe Paypal is, doesn't believe a word of it.


----------



## bikeyard (Jun 11, 2014)

*Why people wouldn't use pay pal.*

If you sell enough items and hit the mark you get a big IRS bill.  Simple enough.


----------



## catfish (Jun 11, 2014)

bikeyard said:


> If you sell enough items and hit the mark you get a big IRS bill.  Simple enough.




A lot of people have a hard time understanding that. And every so often it gets brought up again on here. And it just causes more confusion.....


----------



## bike (Jun 11, 2014)

*You can take a posal money order to the post office and get cash that day*

If you do not feel comfortable sending a draft that the us postmaster investgates frauds. By all means buy another item.
There is a maxim in law that says SELLER IS THE MASTER OF HIS OFFER. I you dont like it, move on.

I have never had a problem with a postal money order since I started mail ordering skateboards when I was 10- now 50-
100% payment- cannot say that for paypal

Just this am had a Canadian ebay buyer say if I did not lower the tarrif (totally out of my control) he would not pay- BEANS!


----------



## Nickinator (Jun 11, 2014)

Must be $20,000 AND 200 transactions. Also, anything sent as Gift does not count towards that total. But don't Gift send it if you don't know/trust them, no protection from PP on monies paid as Gift.

Also, if you could PM me the name of the person in question I'd appreciate it. I don't have any patience for that kind of business!

Darcie


----------



## bikeyard (Jun 11, 2014)

*PP*

Both of those numbers are easy to hit if you hustle.


----------



## vincev (Jun 12, 2014)

Dave Marko said:


> I know one person who doesn't use credit cards. And even if he did, despite all the claims on how safe Paypal is, doesn't believe a word of it.




Dave,do you accept Pay Pal??


----------



## Honestherman (Jul 25, 2014)

*PayPal give the Buyer Safety.*

PayPal gives the Buyer Safety on making payments to the seller. Buyers on these sites is being Pushed into thinking that it is NORMAL for the Buyer to pay the Petty 2.8 percent that PayPal charges the seller. 
I Never buy anything from anyone who asks a Buyer to pay the 3 percent to give them the money for something they are selling.
Thank about it.
a 50.00 item for example. Paypal charges the SELLER 1.46 cents to process the payment thru Their account.  
So they ask you to pay them 51.46
Hmmmm


----------



## bike (Jul 25, 2014)

*problem with most "new" people*



Honestherman said:


> PayPal gives the Buyer Safety on making payments to the seller. Buyers on these sites is being Pushed into thinking that it is NORMAL for the Buyer to pay the Petty 2.8 percent that PayPal charges the seller.
> I Never buy anything from anyone who asks a Buyer to pay the 3 percent to give them the money for something they are selling.
> Thank about it.
> a 50.00 item for example. Paypal charges the SELLER 1.46 cents to process the payment thru Their account.
> ...




They dont know how to buy vintage that is AS IS =-thanks is how I bought it and how I sell it- I have had to fight chargebacks because the person found a cheaper one or their wife did not like it or it did not fit their application - all bs wallmart return policy thining that does not work on antiques.


----------



## RustyK (Jul 25, 2014)

Honestherman said:


> PayPal gives the Buyer Safety on making payments to the seller. Buyers on these sites is being Pushed into thinking that it is NORMAL for the Buyer to pay the Petty 2.8 percent that PayPal charges the seller.
> I Never buy anything from anyone who asks a Buyer to pay the 3 percent to give them the money for something they are selling.
> Thank about it.
> a 50.00 item for example. Paypal charges the SELLER 1.46 cents to process the payment thru Their account.
> ...




Most sellers accept offers that are lower than the asking price, sometimes even losing money to sell something. They also have to package the item, and wait in line at the post office or ups to ship it. If I really want something I'll pay the 3% all day long.


----------



## Nickinator (Jul 25, 2014)

RustyK said:


> Most sellers accept offers that are lower than the asking price, sometimes even losing money to sell something. They also have to package the item, and wait in line at the post office or ups to ship it. If I really want something I'll pay the 3% all day long.




Ditto. Have no problem paying the extra 3%.


----------



## bricycle (Jul 25, 2014)

Nickinator said:


> Ditto. Have no problem paying the extra 3%.




Ditto2, unless it is over $3000.00 er so


----------



## chucksoldbikes (Jul 25, 2014)

*hello*

well i had pay pal ones  they scrued me  big  time   i do  business with  postal money orders only  only had  one get lost  it  cost u  5.00m to recover your money  so i say   fxxxx   pay pal ther  crooks  and ebay sucks to  i am allready   trying to get    ebay and amazon  shut  down  called my congress  man and senator  there  crooks to  did every  body pay taxes opn  every  thibnng they sell   chucksoldbikes  
 ha ha ha


----------



## Honestherman (Jul 25, 2014)

*Price*

If the 50.00 item is 51.46 just say you want 51.46 for it.
If its a good item all buyers would be happy.

Straight forward honesty is the best policy. 
I have purchased a lot of stuff. Only once did I find a person who lost money on the shipping. Most make money on shipping. I ship other products every day for another company. The standing in line is true, But we are the ones selling the products. (not bike parts)


Call it Shipping and Handling.

Cant argue with the truth.  Truth and straight forward stuff always feels better for both selling and buyer on selling items.


----------



## bricycle (Jul 25, 2014)

Honestherman said:


> If the 50.00 item is 51.46 just say you want 51.46 for it.
> If its a good item all buyers would be happy.
> 
> Straight forward honesty is the best policy.
> ...




...I agree with this....(but) you'd be surprised how many people here will pay $50, but not a penny more...


----------

