# Heavy Duti questions



## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 25, 2021)

I recently completed a search for an early Heavy Duti with a successful purchase of a1965 Heavy duti from fellow Caber genesmachines Thanks Gene. I have yet to receive it but had some questions about the bike. I have read that the HD has a reinforced frame, what exactly does that mean? I think it has a HD kickstand,heavy guage spokes and front hub. Is there any other difference from regular mid weight frame and the HD. I can not be more pumped to get my hands on it , that will be soon. Any and all help is appreciated.


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## Xlobsterman (Apr 25, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> I recently completed a search for an early Heavy Duti with a successful purchase of a1965 Heavy duti from fellow Caber genesmachines Thanks Gene. I have yet to receive it but had some questions about the bike. I have read that the HD has a reinforced frame, what exactly does that mean? I think it has a HD kickstand,heavy guage spokes and front hub. Is there any other difference from regular mid weight frame and the HD. I can not be more pumped to get my hands on it , that will be soon. Any and all help is appreciated.




A Heavy Duty did not have any special frame. It was built on a standard middleweight frame with wheels that had .105ga spokes making the wheels stronger giving it the capacity to carry heavier loads like a paperboy would be carrying back in that era. They may have also been marketed more towards commercial institutions where a stronger bike may have been needed.






						The Schwinn Heavy Duti | 1965 to 1983
					

Vintage Schwinn Heavy Duti were made from 1965 to 1983. This page shows images and text from old catalogs of this classic bicycle.



					bikehistory.org


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## Kickstand3 (Apr 25, 2021)

here’s on I use as a warehouse bike


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 25, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> A Heavy Duty did not have any special frame. It was built on a standard middleweight frame with wheels that had .105ga spokes making the wheels stronger giving it the capacity to carry heavier loads like a paperboy would be carrying back in that era. They may have also been marketed more towards commercial institutions where a stronger bike may have been needed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I noticed some of the bikes posted had a CT forged crank and mentions forged stem. I see some cranks with CT marking are they different from regulal Scwinn cast crank? Is there a difference in the stem? I love that yellow but it was not an option in '65, I have taken to painted fenders as of late so I going to keep it red.


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## irideiam (Apr 25, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> A Heavy Duty did not have any special frame. It was built on a standard middleweight frame with wheels that had .105ga spokes making the wheels stronger giving it the capacity to carry heavier loads like a paperboy would be carrying back in that era. They may have also been marketed more towards commercial institutions where a stronger bike may have been needed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not correct. The HD frames starting in 1964 have extra welding where the cantilevers meet the frame at the seat tube(some years) and down tube. Around this time they also started using the CT stamped cranks which were heat treated for extra strength.


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## Xlobsterman (Apr 25, 2021)

irideiam said:


> Not correct. The HD frames starting in 1964 have extra welding where the cantilevers meet the frame at the seat tube and down tube. Around this time they also started using the CT stamped cranks which were heat treated for extra strength.




No special distinction on the frames in the dealer catalogs! The Typhoon, Heavy Duti, Klunker, and the Spitfire all used the same frames!

BTW, the cantilever frames themselves were considered to be a "HEAVY DUTY" frame!


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## irideiam (Apr 25, 2021)

If you look at the earlier dealer catalogs they have different part numbers.


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## Xlobsterman (Apr 25, 2021)

irideiam said:


> If you look at the earlier catalogs they have different part numbers.




And lets see the part number for the Typhoon from that same year.........


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## irideiam (Apr 25, 2021)

Just posted it! What's the point the frames are different. All the way up to the yellow ones in 80, which is the year of the one above I posted. *If you owned one you'd agree!* I have owned at least 20 over time and the only HDs without the extra welds were the '61-'63 American Heavy Duty's


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## Xlobsterman (Apr 25, 2021)

irideiam said:


> Just posted it! What's the point the frames are different. All the way up to the yellow ones in 80, which is the year of the one above I posted. *If you owned one you'd agree!* I have owned at least 20 over time and the only HDs without the extra welds were the '61-'63 American Heavy Duty's




I own one, and assembled many over the years when working at the shop. I see no physical difference in the frames on my Typhoon, Spitfire, Klunker, or Heavy duti.........!


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## irideiam (Apr 25, 2021)

Cool deal, the frames themselves are the same visually, I am just saying the HDs have the welds, look at the yellow one you have pictured and you'll see. It's even referenced in the consumer catalog from 80.


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## Xlobsterman (Apr 25, 2021)

irideiam said:


> Cool deal, the frames themselves are the same visually, I am just saying the HDs have the welds, look at the yellow one you have pictured and you'll see. It's even referenced in the consumer catalog from 80.




Well I am going to agree to disagree with you!

I see no difference in my 78 KLUNKER 5, and my 78 Heavy Duti, or my 79 Spitfire or my 79 Typhoon, they all have the same frames! And that is also clearly stated in the dealer catalog I posted.

Also, if you look at this 77 catalog description for the Spitfire, it states that the frame is "HEAVY DUTY".......!

Schwinn just marketed the Heavy Duti bikes differently and directed the marketing towards the commercial market.


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## irideiam (Apr 25, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> Well I am going to agree to disagree with you!
> 
> I see no difference in my 78 KLUNKER 5, and my 78 Heavy Duti, or my 79 Spitfire or my 79 Typhoon, they all have the same frames! And that is also clearly stated in the dealer catalog I posted.
> 
> ...



Did you check for the welds. It’s not by accident that every Heavy Duti from 1965-80 I have owned or friends of mine have owned have the extra welds. Please check the cantilever for the welds, they are on the bottom, as I pictured above.


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## irideiam (Apr 25, 2021)

irideiam said:


> Not correct. The HD frames starting in 1964 have extra welding where the cantilevers meet the frame at the seat tube and down tube. Around this time they also started using the CT stamped cranks which were heat treated for extra strength.



Like this


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## irideiam (Apr 25, 2021)

It's amazing to me that you insist on passing on bad info when the proof is here, the regular middle weight frames do not have the extra welds.

Please Caber's check your Heavy Duti frames from '65 -'80 and jump in here, the madness of this discussion must end. Thanks


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## Xlobsterman (Apr 25, 2021)

irideiam said:


> It's amazing to me that you insist on passing on bad info when the proof is here, the regular middle weight frames do not have the extra welds.
> 
> Please Caber's check your Heavy Duti frames from '65 -'80 and jump in here, the madness of this discussion must end. Thanks




The ONLY bad info I see here is what you insist on as being correct.....! I agreed to disagree with you!

So since you insisted on seeing more HD frames with this so-called extra weld, here is a pic I just took of my 78 HD with NO EXTRA WELD!

And since you insist on ignoring the the written proof from Schwinn's own dealer catalog showing that the middleweight frames are all the SAME, I will post that pic one more time for you!!!!!!!


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## Beamer (Apr 25, 2021)

Hi,  For what it matters..... me being a noob and all.  My Schwinn HD has welds on its cantilevers that my typhoon doesn't exhibit.  Just sayyin, hope this helps.  P B


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## irideiam (Apr 25, 2021)

Interesting, Do you have other HDs to check, I had 78s that had them. What about the front of the cantilever’s?


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 25, 2021)

Is there any chance Schwinn made HD's with both frames. They have always been known to piece together bikes. Usually parts but maybe they ran short on the frames and just used what they had. Near the end I'm sure they were starting to cut corners  where they could.


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## bloo (Apr 25, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> I noticed some of the bikes posted had a CT forged crank




What is different about the crank?


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## GTs58 (Apr 25, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Is there any chance Schwinn made HD's with both frames. They have always been known to piece together bikes. Usually parts but maybe they ran short on the frames and just used what they had. Near the end I'm sure they were starting to cut corners  where they could.




From what I'm seeing the HD's had the same frame as the standard middleweights but they (some) had extra joint reinforcing welds at the cantilever bars. Looks like they missed doing that on a few frames. Or at various points they decided to not go thru the extra work since they had a life time warranty. How many middleweight models were offered during the last decade of Chicago Schwinn, two? The HD and the Typhoon? Far cry from the earlier years! So out of all the HD's made during that time how many were actually used as a heavy use work bike that really required the extra reinforcing? I've seen cantilever frames were the down tubes were broken in half or cracked where the cantilever bars attach along with broken welds at the cantilever joints. 


bloo said:


> What is different about the crank?




Heat treated for tempering.


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## bloo (Apr 25, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> Heat treated for tempering.



How do you recognize one?


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 25, 2021)

Apparently at times the extra weld is the only way to tell. Otherwise  its the parts on it specifically  the chain guard ,he front hub and all spokes are heavy gauge,the earlier  mentioned stamped crank, seat. But those can be added to any middle weight.


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## bloo (Apr 25, 2021)

I was speaking of the crank. I did not realize there was a different one on Heavy-Duti. What and where is it stamped? How would you recognize one in a box of postwar Schwinn cranks?


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## Vicious Cycle (Apr 25, 2021)

My Coppertone HD has the extra welds.


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## Xlobsterman (Apr 25, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> How many middleweight models were offered during the last decade of Chicago Schwinn, two? The HD and the Typhoon?




YES, but the California Cruiser, the KLUNKER 5, and the Spitfires all used the same middleweight frame until the 1980 model year!


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## Xlobsterman (Apr 25, 2021)

Vicious Cycle said:


> My Coppertone HD has the extra welds.




And what model year may that be?


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 25, 2021)

bloo said:


> How do you recognize one?






bloo said:


> I was speaking of the crank. I did not realize there was a different one on Heavy-Duti. What and where is it stamped? How would you recognize one in a box of postwar Schwinn cranks?




A small CT marked on the one leg outside the BB. My understanding is it stands for cycle truck.


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## Superman1984 (Apr 25, 2021)

Well not to argue or start anything; Any Cantilever frame worth it's salt in a HD commercial state should be welded. Even the cheap box store Huffy is welded specifically in the canti bars usually 1/2 - 1" around the seat tube & around the rounded stub end going to the front.  I know because I have cut them loose for metal & extensions etc. Launch a HD or even jus' a canti lever frame off a commercial style dock with weight on it & you'll see why! @coasterbrakejunkie1969 same with heat treated cranks & possibly the CT stamp because Imagine a beast 6 ft tall 280+ lbs like some of the guys here basically left right left curb stomping you while hauling who knows what behind them. That is massive brute force on the; crank, the wheels (like Worksman) and forks/stems. Not all those factory working types were scrawny guys like myself. Hahaha


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## Superman1984 (Apr 25, 2021)

Technically the frames weren't drastically different; a lot of middle weights will clear 2.125" tires .... some fendered with fair space to spare & others a fender is a piece of metal waiting to be bent, dented, & not Really idea for a lot of HD Commercial use. Hence thicker or solid tires etc


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## Vicious Cycle (Apr 25, 2021)

When I worked at the Schwinn dealer it was common knowledge that the HD's were reinforced with a extra weld in the places shown in this discushion.
I don't think that using a spare parts catalog is a good basis for fact.  This is what Schwinn would sell you if you needed a replacement frame in the day, its what they had on the shelf.


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## irideiam (Apr 25, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Is there any chance Schwinn made HD's with both frames. They have always been known to piece together bikes. Usually parts but maybe they ran short on the frames and just used what they had. Near the end I'm sure they were starting to cut corners  where they could.



Certainly, could be the case. I have seen a couple 70-80s Heavy Duti frames that only had the extra welds at the ends of the cantilevers.


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## irideiam (Apr 25, 2021)

Vicious Cycle said:


> When I worked at the Schwinn dealer it was common knowledge that the HD's were reinforced with a extra weld in the places shown in this discussion.
> I don't think that using a spare parts catalog is a good basis for fact.  This is what Schwinn would sell you if you needed a replacement frame in the day, its what they had on the shelf.


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## Rusty Klunker (Apr 25, 2021)

Could it have stopped in the 60's? I've seen the welds on 60's bikes and there have been other posts and threads about it here.

Right now myself I have 3, 70's HD frames. 73, 74 and 76 and none have the extra welds.


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## Xlobsterman (Apr 25, 2021)

Rusty Klunker said:


> Right now myself I have 3, 70's HD frames. 73, 74 and 76 and none have the extra welds.




And the frames were all that way until 83 when the Chicago factory closed.


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## sworley (Apr 25, 2021)

‘65 KS HD with CT cranks and extra welds. I’ve had two 65 KS HDs and they’ve both been like this. My guess is by the late 70s or early 80s Schwinn stopped doing it?


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## GTs58 (Apr 25, 2021)

Just went thru catalogs from 1965 thru 1971. From the first HD in 65 they say special re-enforced cantilever frame and every year after that it was the same until 1970. For 70 is just says special cantilever frame, and then for 1971 nothing was mentioned. From that I'd have to assume the extra welds were omitted starting in 1971 or even 1970. Or maybe the 70 model just had the cantilever bars re-enforced at the down tube since it said "special" cantilever frame. For 72 is just says cantilever frame and it's painted yellow. I have to assume that definitely yellow models are no different than the regular middleweight frames. So the extra welds were totally omitted by 1971.


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## irideiam (Apr 25, 2021)

Rusty Klunker said:


> Could it have stopped in the 60's? I've seen the welds on 60's bikes and there have been other posts and threads about it here.
> 
> Right now myself I have 3, 70's HD frames. 73, 74 and 76 and none have the extra welds.



How about on the ends where they connect to the down tube?


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## irideiam (Apr 25, 2021)

irideiam said:


> How about on the ends where they connect to the down tube? The yellow one I posted above was an 80.


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## Xlobsterman (Apr 26, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> Just went thru catalogs from 1965 thru 1971. From the first HD in 65 they say special re-enforced cantilever frame and every year after that it was the same until 1970. For 70 is just says special cantilever frame, and then for 1971 nothing was mentioned. From that I'd have to assume the extra welds were omitted starting in 1971 or even 1970. Or maybe the 70 model just had the cantilever bars re-enforced at the down tube since it said "special" cantilever frame. For 72 is just says cantilever frame and it's painted yellow. I have to assume that definitely yellow models are no different than the regular middleweight frames. So the extra welds were totally omitted by 1971.




Lots of assumptions and maybes................!


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## Xlobsterman (Apr 26, 2021)

Vicious Cycle said:


> When I worked at the Schwinn dealer it was common knowledge that the HD's were reinforced with a extra weld in the places shown in this discushion.
> *I don't think that using a spare parts catalog is a good basis for fact.*  This is what Schwinn would sell you if you needed a replacement frame in the day, its what they had on the shelf.




The Schwinn dealer catalog I posted the picture of is not factual info? So the 3 Schwinn dealer catalogs I have must all contain the wrong information then.

If it was common knowledge as you say, then there should be lots of documentation to confirm it?


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 26, 2021)

Xlobsterman, I understand you have your info which I deem to be authentic. As well as the other info to be real. I know that your catalog does not mention it but others do. Why would they print it if it wasn't true? Your catalog is not  incorrect it just doesn't  mention the added welds. The fact that it is mentioned at all means it was applied to frames at some point. Lets face it Schwinn didn't represent everything completely correct in their catalogs as far as what is available. But why would they print something that was not true, I can't imagine a company built on their name and quality of bikes would then deceive the buyer and make a claim that was not true Just doesn't add up IMO.


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## Vicious Cycle (Apr 26, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> The Schwinn dealer catalog I posted the picture of is not factual info? So the 3 Schwinn dealer catalogs I have must all contain the wrong information then.
> 
> If it was common knowledge as you say, then there should be lots of documentation to confirm it?



Of course the catalog is "factual". It is what was available, as spares, at time of printing.

The confirmation is in all the pic's of the extra weld that have been shown by owners of these bikes.


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## Superman1984 (Apr 26, 2021)

Time will tell when @coasterbrakejunkie1969  receives his bike. I guess the 1st pic will be to see & show if it's welded in both the cantilever areas & then the follow up pics of serial etc in excitement or possible disappointments. No Sense in arguing or anyone getting pissed off; Strange stuff happens with bikes all the time & unless you or your family bought it new & keep a record of it from day 1 there's No Telling Why or What Happens. 

Y'all take Schwinns Too Seriously  

  In the words of Homer J Simpson "Jeebus"!


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 26, 2021)

yes extra welds, I don't care what the catalog says this bike is awesome.


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## sworley (Apr 26, 2021)

Whoa! Welcome to the King Size family! CT crank, too? You're right, that's a damn special rig!


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## Superman1984 (Apr 26, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> yes extra welds, I don't care what the catalog says this bike is awesome.
> 
> View attachment 1399140
> 
> ...



Nice Score buddy! Glad it floats ya boat & you have 1 of your desired bikes 

 Wanna sell it? Hahaha Joking; I own 3 too many Schwinns


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 26, 2021)

Superman1984 said:


> ; I own 3 too many Schwinns




Haha, I own a dozen to many.


sworley said:


> CT crank, too?



Yes CT crank


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 26, 2021)

Next to my 1969 Typhoon


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## bikebozo (Apr 26, 2021)

Hevy dudys for sale


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## GTs58 (Apr 26, 2021)

Went up a few years on the catalogs and the 1980 models. Special reinforced frames for this year. Anyone have a 1980 they can check?


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## GTs58 (Apr 26, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> Lots of assumptions and maybes................!




Yup! and it seems the first 4 years or so did get the extra welds assuming all the pictures aren't fake.


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## MP12965 (Apr 26, 2021)




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## Xlobsterman (Apr 27, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> Went up a few years on the catalogs and the 1980 models. Special reinforced frames for this year. Anyone have a 1980 they can check?
> 
> View attachment 1399319




The only things different for the 1980 model year was that Schwinn went back to painted fenders for that year only, and the front hub was changed to a large flange ACS for 80, 81 & 82!


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## Xlobsterman (Apr 27, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> Yup! and it seems the first 4 years or so did get the extra welds assuming all the pictures aren't fake.




I have no idea if the pics are fake or not? But I do know that if Schwinn made a special frame just for the Heavy Duti model, then they would have issued a TSB, or announced it in the Schwinn Reporter. So there should be some documentation out there, and I would love to see it.......!

But there is one thing for sure, the claim by some people that all the HD frames had the extra welds is false, as shown by the pic I posted of my bike, and of the pic taken directly out of the Schwinn dealer catalog showing the standard middleweight frame is the same frame as used on 4 models of bikes including the Heavy Duti.


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## GTs58 (Apr 27, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> I have no idea if the pics are fake or not? But I do know that if Schwinn made a special frame just for the Heavy Duti model, then they would have issued a TSB, or announced it in the Schwinn Reporter. So there should be some documentation out there, and I would love to see it.......!
> 
> But there is one thing for sure, the claim by some people that all the HD frames had the extra welds is false, as shown by the pic I posted of my bike, and of the pic taken directly out of the Schwinn dealer catalog showing the standard middleweight frame is the same frame as used on 4 models of bikes including the Heavy Duti.




The actual frame is no different than any of the other middleweights in the same year and all they did was add a few reinforcing welds on the cantilever bars. It's not a special made frame. And if it says "reinforced" in the catalog text, it most likely had the "extra" welds.


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## GTs58 (Apr 28, 2021)

Rusty Klunker said:


> Could it have stopped in the 60's? I've seen the welds on 60's bikes and there have been other posts and threads about it here.
> 
> Right now myself I have 3, 70's HD frames. 73, 74 and 76 and none have the extra welds.




I went thru a few more years of the catalogs and there was no mention the HD frames were being reinforced for the years 1971-72-73-74-75-76. And for 1977 they state the frame was reinforced once again. So that lets Schwinn off the hook if you complain that you didn't get the extra frame "reinforcing".  

This is all pretty damn interesting. Someone brought this up many years ago and I was a believer that there was no difference in the HD frames. Then someone showed me the added welds on their HD frame.  Now we're back to yes they're different but no they're not.


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## Xlobsterman (Apr 28, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> The actual frame is no different than any of the other middleweights in the same year and all they did was add a few reinforcing welds on the cantilever bars. It's not a special made frame. And if it says "reinforced" in the catalog text, it most likely had the "extra" welds.




IMO, if it had the extra welds, then it was a special made frame! And once again, if Schwinn was doing this for the Heavy Duti models, then they would have most likely issued a TSB, or wrote about it in the Reporter back in the day! So there should be some long lost documentation out there to confirm this?

Anyhow, we can keep going round and round on this, but the fact is that not all the HD frames had the extra welds as some claim them to have!


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## Superman1984 (Apr 28, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> IMO, if it had the extra welds, then it was a special made frame! And once again, if Schwinn was doing this for the Heavy Duti models, then they would have most likely issued a TSB, or wrote about it in the Reporter back in the day! So there should be some long lost documentation out there to confirm this?
> 
> Anyhow, we can keep going round and round on this, but the fact is that not all the HD frames had the extra welds as some claim them to have!
> 
> View attachment 1400246



Damn that bike has dimples! It needed to be welded


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## bloo (Apr 28, 2021)

MP12965 said:


> View attachment 1399479




What size tires and rims are those?


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## Superman1984 (Apr 28, 2021)

bloo said:


> What size tires and rims are those?



That back tire looks like a 26x3" but probably 26" x 2.125". Different tires, tread profiles & psi make a bike look different ....


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## bloo (Apr 28, 2021)

S2 rims then? Not S7?


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## Superman1984 (Apr 28, 2021)

bloo said:


> S2 rims then? Not S7?



That I can't say for sure but they look like S2/balloon tires. I was giving my opinion but @MP12965 will tell you. I'm Sure. Sorry


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## bloo (Apr 28, 2021)

I'm honestly trying to remember if the heavy-duti changed to S2/Balloon when S2's came back in the late 70s for the Klunker5 etc. I should know this, but I'm drawing a blank.


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## Superman1984 (Apr 28, 2021)

bloo said:


> I'm honestly trying to remember if the heavy-duti changed to S2/Balloon when S2's came back in the late 70s for the Klunker5 etc. I should know this, but I'm drawing a blank.



I would think a Heavy Duty would be a balloon tire bike using the S2/Lobdell style rims & thicker spokes; at least 12g - 10g. Worksman & usually every other industrial capable bike or trike usually is ....


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## Xlobsterman (Apr 28, 2021)

bloo said:


> I'm honestly trying to remember if the heavy-duti changed to S2/Balloon when S2's came back in the late 70s for the Klunker5 etc. I should know this, but I'm drawing a blank.




The HD never had S2 rims, and balloon tires! But they have always had .105ga spokes in the wheel sets, and that is the primary reason they were deemed a Heavy Duty bike!


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## irideiam (Apr 29, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> The actual frame is no different than any of the other middleweights in the same year and all they did was add a few reinforcing welds on the cantilever bars. It's not a special made frame. And if it says "reinforced" in the catalog text, it most likely had the "extra" welds.



Correct, no one said it was a different frame, just that they had extra welds......


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## irideiam (Apr 29, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> IMO, if it had the extra welds, then it was a special made frame! And once again, if Schwinn was doing this for the Heavy Duti models, then they would have most likely issued a TSB, or wrote about it in the Reporter back in the day! So there should be some long lost documentation out there to confirm this?
> 
> Anyhow, we can keep going round and round on this, but the fact is that not all the HD frames had the extra welds as some claim them to have!
> 
> View attachment 1400246



I'll ask you again to post a picture of the front of the cantilevers for this same frame.


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## irideiam (Apr 29, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> I have no idea if the pics are fake or not? But I do know that if Schwinn made a special frame just for the Heavy Duti model, then they would have issued a TSB, or announced it in the Schwinn Reporter. So there should be some documentation out there, and I would love to see it.......!
> 
> But there is one thing for sure, the claim by some people that all the HD frames had the extra welds is false, as shown by the pic I posted of my bike, and of the pic taken directly out of the Schwinn dealer catalog showing the standard middleweight frame is the same frame as used on 4 models of bikes including the Heavy Duti.



Seriously, why would someone post fake pictures, *from my experience* (roughly 20 HD frames) they all had the reinforcing welds starting in 1964-1980 at the end of the cantilevers where they meet the down tube and some of the later 70-80 frames did not have the extra welds at the seat tube cantilever joint, like yours.

*This is why I have ask you several times to post a picture of the cantilevers where they meet the down tube.*


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## Superman1984 (Apr 29, 2021)

I don't see what the big deal is ~shrugs~ are Schwinn Heavy Duties being faked or middle weights that passed off as such? If so damn I should be worried. I thought of owning 1 someday


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 29, 2021)

Superman1984 said:


> I don't see what the big deal is ~shrugs~ are Schwinn Heavy Duties being faked or middle weights that passed off as such? If so damn I should be worried. I thought of owning 1 someday




Listen superman you already sunk your boat knocking cantilevers and red bikes. Your not wanted around here haha. I think the concern is the latter , later middleweight s bing passed off as something different. I will be honest the only people I know who broke a middleweight frame did it delivering a million papers over many years and my buddy who was 6'6" and 275 lbs and would not accept he was abnormally large and rode like he was a normal person. Do not  be discouraged find you Heavy Duti and ride with confidence.


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## Superman1984 (Apr 29, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Listen superman you already sunk your boat knocking cantilevers and red bikes. Your not wanted around here haha. I think the concern is the latter , later middleweight s bing passed off as something different. I will be honest the only people I know who broke a middleweight frame did it delivering a million papers over many years and my buddy who was 6'6" and 275 lbs and would not accept he was abnormally large and rode like he was a normal person. Do not  be discouraged find you Heavy Duti and ride with confidence.



Hahaha I will take my red Columbia straight bar bike painted black & ride off with that being said!  I'm in No Hurry but I think a Scwhinn or a HD Commercial frame could be Nice to own. I almost bought a Husky frame



That I wanted to build a rugged "All Purpose" horse out of


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## Xlobsterman (Apr 29, 2021)

irideiam said:


> Seriously, why would someone post fake pictures, *from my experience* (roughly 20 HD frames) they all had the reinforcing welds starting in 1964-1980 at the end of the cantilevers where they meet the down tube and some of the later 70-80 frames did not have the extra welds at the seat tube cantilever joint, like yours.
> 
> *This is why I have ask you several times to post a picture of the cantilevers where they meet the down tube.*




The statement about the fake pictures was originally posted by Gary, so if you if you have an issue with that statement, then you need to direct your response to him directly, *not me*!

I have already agreed to disagree with you once already earlier in this thread, and I have already proven you wrong with your statement that all HD frames had the extra welds through 1980 with the pic of my bike, and my dealer catalog that shows the same part number for 4 different middleweight bikes including the *"HEAVY DUTI" *that all used the *SAME FRAME*.........!

Anyhow, if you have owned so many of them, then you should have lots of pictures of these frames with the extra welds!


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## Xlobsterman (Apr 29, 2021)

irideiam said:


> If you look at the earlier dealer catalogs they have different part numbers.
> View attachment 1398050
> 
> View attachment 1398051




So I found this page from a dealer catalog, and according to what I see, is that the "King Sized Heavy Duti" is the one with a reinforced frame as designated by the letter R after the part number, and the frame number 1920 in the pic you posted is just a standard cantilever frame!


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## irideiam (Apr 29, 2021)

Done!


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (May 2, 2021)

Hey , I wanted to thank everyone for the help with my questions , unfortunately it also created a lot more questions. It ended up a little like an Ali vs. Frazier heavyweight fight with some real haymakers getting thrown. When the dust settled both men were still standing and ready to go few more rounds. As with a lot of old bike info it is hard to really get definitive answers. I would appreciate if anyone and everyone who owns a HD /KSHD/ KSHDA could post a pic of the bike and a shot of extra welds or not. I made a earlier statement that Schwinn would not put something in print and not provide it , I'm starting to wonder if they stopped with the process and just continued to call the frame HD. Either way I hope everyone who can joins in. If we can not get an answer at least we can check out some killer bikes. DING DING round 2 haha pleas play nice and remember we are all here for the same thing entertainment and info.


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## Xlobsterman (May 2, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Hey , I wanted to thank everyone for the help with my questions , unfortunately it also created a lot more questions. It ended up a little like an Ali vs. Frazier heavyweight fight with some real haymakers getting thrown. When the dust settled both men were still standing and ready to go few more rounds. As with a lot of old bike info it is hard to really get definitive answers. I would appreciate if anyone and everyone who owns a HD /KSHD/ KSHDA could post a pic of the bike and a shot of extra welds or not. I made a earlier statement that Schwinn would not put something in print and not provide it , I'm starting to wonder if they stopped with the process and just continued to call the frame HD. Either way I hope everyone who can joins in. If we can not get an answer at least we can check out some killer bikes. DING DING round 2 haha pleas play nice and remember we are all here for the same thing entertainment and info.




Like I said in previous posts, there has to be some documentation out there for these earlier bikes with the extra welds. In doing my research I did find the dealer info from 1965 for the King Sized frame. But I would like to see the Schwinn TSB, or an article from the Schwinn Reporter where they discussed this for their dealers! Schwinn was very good at keeping their dealers in the loop on the latest trends or changes they made, and I would think this would be no different.


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## Rusty Klunker (May 2, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> And the frames were all that way until 83 when the Chicago factory closed.






irideiam said:


> How about on the ends where they connect to the down tube?




Easiest one I can get my hands on.
Here is a 74 I have next to an 81 cruiser frame. Was going to build this up a few years ago but it has some issues I dont want to deal with.
No extra welds but they are different. The seat stays at the fender brace are different widths. The HD is about 2.25 and the cruiser is about 2.75 like a ballooner.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (May 2, 2021)

Rusty Klunker said:


> The HD is about 2.25 and the cruiser is about 2.75.




Interesting, is that because the cruiser came with 2.125 tires and the HD was only middle weight?


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## Rusty Klunker (May 2, 2021)

Somewhere around here I have a 66, 68 dealer catalog. When I find it we'll see if it lists different numbers back then.


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## Rusty Klunker (May 2, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Interesting, is that because the cruiser came with 2.125 tires and the HD was only middle weight?




I'll guess probably. But pretty sure the spitfire was narrow too.


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## Xlobsterman (May 2, 2021)

Rusty Klunker said:


> Easiest one I can get my hands on.
> Here is a 74 I have next to an 81 cruiser frame. Was going to build this up a few years ago but it has some issues I dont want to deal with.
> No extra welds but they are different. The seat stays at the fender brace are different widths. The HD is about 2.25 and the cruiser is about 2.75 like a ballooner.
> 
> ...




YES, the frames are different. 1980 is when Schwinn changed the frame used on the Cruiser model, it had a different model number and that can be seen in the dealer catalog pic I posted on page one in this thread.


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## GTs58 (May 2, 2021)

Rusty Klunker said:


> Easiest one I can get my hands on.
> Here is a 74 I have next to an 81 cruiser frame. Was going to build this up a few years ago but it has some issues I dont want to deal with.
> No extra welds but they are different. The seat stays at the fender brace are different widths. The HD is about 2.25 and the cruiser is about 2.75 like a ballooner.
> 
> ...





Looks like you have the extra welds on the cantilever to down tube joints. Also, the cantilever bars on both look different with the crimping of the cantilever tubing. Having the cantilever bars flattened will make for more surface contact needed for extra electro forging. This is just a different method but it appears they have "extra" welds, or extended electro welds.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (May 2, 2021)

What is the deal with my HD Bendix  coaster hub, I know it has heavy duty spokes but other then larger holes on the hub itself made differently then my other single red bands? On the same note are there 2 and 3 speed HD hubs?


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## Xlobsterman (May 2, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> What is the deal with my HD Bendix  coaster hub, I know it has heavy duty spokes but other then larger holes on the hub itself made differently then my other single red bands? On the same note are there 2 and 3 speed HD hubs?




No difference in the hubs except for the holes for the .105ga spokes!

All Heavy Duti's came with single speed bendix hubs from the factory.


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## Rusty Klunker (May 2, 2021)

I dont think the HD's ever came with 2 or 3 speed hubs. But the bendix kickbacks had 3 or 4 different hub shells for different size spokes. The largest spoke hole ones I've seen have been found on reighley tandems.


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## Rusty Klunker (May 2, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> Looks like you have the extra welds on the cantilever to down tube joints. Also, the cantilever bars on both look different with the crimping of the cantilever tubing. Having the cantilever bars flattened will make for more surface contact needed for extra electro forging. This is just a different method but it appears they have "extra" welds, or extended electro welds.





They both have welds to the down tubes just the black isn't showing up that well in the pic.

Something else that isn't showing well in the pic is the canti bars are miss aligned and different lenghts on the HD. One is about 5/8ths shorter and sits about halfway on the downtube, the other is past the downtube. The shorter one is also about 3/4 lower with a different arch. Was going to cut them free and make them match then noticed the seat tube cracked at the BB. Another frame came up and this one went in the pile instead. I need a rear triangle for a cycle truck frame and I think this is going to be its donor.


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## GTs58 (May 2, 2021)

I would think a HD could have a 2-speed since my 1962 HD American was fully loaded and it had the 2-speed auto. Checking out the Dealers options list for the different models might show something that could be added to the HD's.


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## Danny the schwinn freak (May 4, 2021)

Here’s a pic of my 72 HD. Not sure about the additional welds, but I was curious about the brake bridge. To my knowledge, all HD’s were single speed coasters, so I wonder why mine (and many others I’ve seen) have a brake bridge. Any ideas?


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (May 4, 2021)

Danny the schwinn freak said:


> Here’s a pic of my 72 HD. Not sure about the additional welds, but I was curious about the brake bridge. To my knowledge, all HD’s were single speed coasters, so I wonder why mine (and many others I’ve sent) have a brake bridge. Any ideas?
> View attachment 1404220



This is exactly why this thread needed to be opened back up. Again maybe no definitive answers at least we can see the variations that were out there.Real sharp bike Danny.


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## Xlobsterman (May 4, 2021)

Danny the schwinn freak said:


> Here’s a pic of my 72 HD. Not sure about the additional welds, but I was curious about the brake bridge. To my knowledge, all HD’s were single speed coasters, so I wonder why mine (and many others I’ve sent) have a brake bridge. Any ideas?
> View attachment 1404220




I would assume, and I hate to assume, but I would say it is because the frames were used on many different models in the 60's, and that may have just carried over into the early 70's? But in 72, the only middleweights were the HD, and the Typhoon, and neither came with rear brakes! So it is a good question. The same can be asked about the 80 to 83 Cruisers since they used that style of frame on the single speeds, and the 5 speeds with the drum brake!

If you look at this pic I posted from the 65 dealer catalog, you will see the different frame styles in the pic. But there were quite a few different models of middleweights that year.


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## Xlobsterman (May 4, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> This is exactly why this thread needed to be opened back up. Again maybe no definitive answers at least we can see the variations that were out there.Real sharp bike Danny.




YES, and thanks for unlocking the thread!

I believe there is documentation out there in reference to these issues, we just need to dig into the older dealer catalogs, TSB's, or the old issues of the Schwinn reporter for the correct info.


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## Rusty Klunker (May 4, 2021)

Danny the schwinn freak said:


> Here’s a pic of my 72 HD. Not sure about the additional welds, but I was curious about the brake bridge. To my knowledge, all HD’s were single speed coasters, so I wonder why mine (and many others I’ve sent) have a brake bridge. Any ideas?
> View attachment 1404220




My 73 and 74 frames have the brake bridge bracket but the 76 has just a regular fender brace. None of the three have provisions for a front fork caliper brake.


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## Xlobsterman (May 5, 2021)

Rusty Klunker said:


> My 73 and 74 frames have the brake bridge bracket but the 76 has just a regular fender brace. None of the three have provisions for a front fork caliper brake.




How about the extra welds? Do your bikes have any?


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## Rusty Klunker (May 5, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> How about the extra welds? Do your bikes have any?




Nope, at least not around the seat post. Had posted that back in the beginning of this thread. Have seen it on 60's bikes but not 70's.


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## Xlobsterman (May 5, 2021)

In doing some investigation into this topic, and looking for copies of documentation relating to it, I came across this copy of the Schwinn Reporter from 1980. It didn't have any of the info I was looking for, but it did have the dates ( June 9-13th ) listed for the Schwinn Service School I attended at Schwinn Sales West, in the city of Industry, California. It's not related to this topic, but I thought it was pretty cool stumbling across it as it relates to my history of working at a Schwinn dealer back in the day!


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## Goldenrod1 (May 5, 2021)

Thanks to all of you.  I learned a lot.  One of my Heavy Weights is a yellow one from Hungary.  I bought it because my friend said," That is a cheap Whizzer set up with thick spokes.  I had it pin striped as the Yellow Jacket and I beat it around _as a rider.  I later put a spring fork on it.  I bought others as custom parade trick bikes with off set wheels done with little cash.  I think that they were used as rental bikes and could be kept out in the rain with the stainless fenders.  _


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## Oilit (May 5, 2021)

Goldenrod1 said:


> Thanks to all of you.  I learned a lot.  One of my Heavy Weights is a yellow one from Hungary.  I bought it because my friend said," That is a cheap Whizzer set up with thick spokes.  I had it pin striped as the Yellow Jacket and I beat it around _as a rider.  I later put a spring fork on it.  I bought others as custom parade trick bikes with off set wheels done with little cash.  I think that they were used as rental bikes and could be kept out in the rain with the stainless fenders.  _
> 
> View attachment 1404796



By offset I take it you mean off-center. At first I couldn't figure out why there was so much clearance between the wheel and the fender. I don't know whether to laugh or cry, but I've got to give you credit for the effort.


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## Xlobsterman (May 7, 2021)

So in doing a bit more online research on this topic this morning, I found this previous message on this topic.









						were all heavy duti's mens frame and made the same | All Things Schwinn
					

i was wandering were all hd's mens frames? Any women's? and for example my 1976 made in the 4th week of July was it created the same as non heavy duti frames and then endowed with big spokes or was it made better?




					thecabe.com


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## Jeff54 (May 8, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> IMO, if it had the extra welds, then it was a special made frame! And once again, if Schwinn was doing this for the Heavy Duti models, then they would have most likely issued a TSB, or wrote about it in the Reporter back in the day! So there should be some long lost documentation out there to confirm this?
> 
> Anyhow, we can keep going round and round on this, but the fact is that not all the HD frames had the extra welds as some claim them to have!
> 
> View attachment 1400246



If it's any consolation, out of curiosity I just flipped my 24" 1980 Cruiser 81 badged, over, just to have a looky at the welds.

And well yeah no extra welds but surprisingly the jointing/welding is so tight, smooth, well done it is definitely remarkable. It's not just tacked as I've seen on standard Schwinns or how your HD appears. U can see on yours for all the visual tubing the weld is just under where it meets the tube, like a tack.  Mine couldn't have been cut to form. U know, notched to fit the tube at each weld point here at the seat tube, and connections at head post,  but but it's so nice, it  looks like it.

It looks better than these HD photos where also appears, joints at seat post, as tacked and then a glob is melted on em.

Mine is so well done, it must be a fluke B/C it looks so professional, as if a master welder did it custom vs factory run and electro welds, and really, actually b/c welds are full across and filled full, upper and lower so nicely, like a custom made heavy duty.

IDK so strange, I have nothing to compare it too except maybe Juniors are built better. B/C comparatively, nothing personal, yours looks like crap.

That being said, I didn't want to fool wit what I have B/C friggen pandemic, my wife has not been working, cleaned and organized MY garage.  Spit! great looking organization but has to fight to get anything out. So anyways, it took a while but just had to check B/C I have a 1954 24" Canti.   frame And, it isn't as nicely welded as my 80 frame but the welds are similar and filled better than your HD is. Connections on all  underside points are filled quite well, just a little more sloppy than the 80. junior and, do not seem as they were notched in like my 80 does. The 80 24" has to be a fluke, it's just too dam good,  lol

So, I also realized that, with a finger nail, could just stick it in, under the weld spots without digging it all out. 26"inchers Are not HD but  55, 61 and 63 just are like my 54 junior.

I think U got screwed man. Yet, moreover, in your frame, and any others tacked like yours,  I think that Schwinn did pull one over on the HD pitch. Certainly yours is unique as far as quality goes. Now, I wonder as, I've since sold my 2, 26" 80 cruisers so,, nothing to check but, I wonder when and how many Cruisers, Spits, Klunks, Americans, Typhoons etc,  gots that crap done, underside too? And then, if mostly like my 80 Jr. then, yours Must have been hangover Monday's production line.   Or, TGIF party began before the bell rang


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## Xlobsterman (May 8, 2021)

Jeff54 said:


> If it's any consolation, out of curiosity I just flipped my 24" 1980 Cruiser 81 badged, over, just to have a looky at the welds.
> 
> And well yeah no extra welds but surprisingly the jointing/welding is so tight, smooth, well done it is definitely remarkable. It's not just tacked as I've seen on standard Schwinns or how your HD appears. U can see on yours for all the visual tubing the weld is just under where it meets the tube, like a tack.  Mine couldn't have been cut to form. U know, notched to fit the tube at each weld point here at the seat tube, and connections at head post,  but but it's so nice, it  looks like it.
> 
> ...




Post pics please........


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## MP12965 (May 8, 2021)




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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (May 9, 2021)

MP12965 said:


> View attachment 1407158



Any extra welds on that one? Love and need a yellow boys bike. My wife's breeze is OK for now. Killer bike, is it a repaint?


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## Goldenrod1 (May 9, 2021)

Oilit said:


> By offset I take it you mean off-center. At first I couldn't figure out why there was so much clearance between the wheel and the fender. I don't know whether to laugh or cry, but I've got to give you credit for the effort.



You missed an important detail.  Note the 1 to1 ratio of the sprockets.  It is easy to turn and runs itself if you push the bars on the down stroke like an 1938 Ingo scooter-bike that you jump up and down.  We are making a video for the CABE soon.


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## Jeff54 (May 9, 2021)

Jeff54 said:


> If it's any consolation, out of curiosity I just flipped my 24" 1980 Cruiser 81 badged, over, just to have a looky at the welds.
> 
> And well yeah no extra welds but surprisingly the jointing/welding is so tight, smooth, well done it is definitely remarkable. It's not just tacked as I've seen on standard Schwinns or how your HD appears. U can see on yours for all the visual tubing the weld is just under where it meets the tube, like a tack.  Mine couldn't have been cut to form. U know, notched to fit the tube at each weld point here at the seat tube, and connections at head post,  but but it's so nice, it  looks like it.
> 
> ...






Xlobsterman said:


> Post pics please........



Yeah, I knew U'd do that, knew better than to get into this pile. . Was hoping a billion words would do it. So, I had to go put my waders on to play more on this subject, charge camera not used in 2 year, blah, blah, blah

So, the 1st are the 54 24"er. you can really see that, it's not brazing filling the gaps moreover looks like mig or tig welding and every point is thick, longer  and a little sloppy vs yours.  It's rattle can crap blue but was originally Opal Blue. Regardless, the paint is not filling up the area it's all weld and I exposed an area to see the color of it and, sort of sloppy wire or stick an MIG/TIG would do.  I believe Schwinn never intended to wipe their butts on the underside as, U no can see and give em extra strength.

Next be the 80, 24"er. Photos didn't come out as swell as the blue did. and it's going to take a bit to show it B/C black is a lot tougher to get good shots so maybe later today. Of course it's not the same type of welding but the more I look at it,, I'm thinking that the reason it looks like it's notched is because they might be pressed together during the electro forging and it's more of a fluke to flex in a little deeper than intended. .

For the time being though the topic of 'Heavy duty' Schwinn bikes verses standard I think came about as Schwinn shifted  higher advancements in electro forging that  decreased the frames strength.  So, apparently they stuck a few tacks, MIG or TIG to strengthen it. I.E. I think that, most everything prior is Heavy-duty, minus a C Crank.

Canti bars, attached are imbalanced on top of photo bar has near twice the amount of weld vs bottom. I do not believe  this this is any more different than a 26" would be. I just do not have other than the the two 24"-ers accessible currently.


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## Xlobsterman (May 9, 2021)

Jeff54 said:


> Yeah, I knew U'd do that, knew better than to get into this pile. . Was hoping a billion words would do it. So, I had to go put my waders on to play more on this subject, charge camera not used in 2 year, blah, blah, blah
> 
> So, the 1st are the 54 24"er. you can really see that, it's not brazing filling the gaps moreover looks like mig or tig welding and every point is thick, longer  and a little sloppy vs yours.  It's rattle can crap blue but was originally Opal Blue. Regardless, the paint is not filling up the area it's all weld and I exposed an area to see the color of it and, sort of sloppy wire or stick an MIG/TIG would do.  I believe Schwinn never intended to wipe their butts on the underside as, U no can see and give em extra strength.
> 
> ...




I only see 2 pics of a blue bike!


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## Xlobsterman (May 9, 2021)

So I found another Dealer Catalog page from 1967. Once again, it shows ONLY the King Sized frame as being reinforced.


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## GTs58 (May 9, 2021)

There was a change in Schwinn's frame building at some point and maybe that is mentioned somewhere in your books. Like I said earlier the cantilever bars are crimped so there is extra contact area for the EF process making the joints stronger at the seat tube. Notice your frame and the one Jeff posted of that 1954 frame. I believe this crimping started in the late 60's but I have no examples to verify when it actually started. All my Corvette frames are like that 54 frame's cantilever bars, but they don't have the added welds done by someone at some point.


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## Xlobsterman (May 10, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> There was a change in Schwinn's frame building at some point and maybe that is mentioned somewhere in your books. Like I said earlier the cantilever bars are crimped so there is extra contact area for the EF process making the joints stronger at the seat tube. Notice your frame and the one Jeff posted of that 1954 frame. I believe this crimping started in the late 60's but I have no examples to verify when it actually started. All my Corvette frames are like that 54 frame's cantilever bars, but they don't have the added welds done by someone at some point.
> 
> View attachment 1407755
> 
> View attachment 1407762




The frame styles of other models is not really relevant to the original topic of the "Heavy Duti" and how it's frames may, or may not have all been reinforced in some way shape or form as some may claim!

So far, from the documentation I have found, it seems like the only frames that were reinforced were the earlier King Sized frames! And it would still be nice to see any documentation from Schwinn stating just how those frames were reinforced?


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## Jeff54 (May 10, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> I only see 2 pics of a blue bike!



Yeah, as said, difficult to shoot and get the angles I need with the black. But Been looking closer and inspecting, it's just like your yellow, only a little tighter on one side. At first, I thought it's  tighter but got to looking more at yours and stuck a flashlight into mine, under, over, and around, and it's actually about the same.  That nice bright yellow is a lot easier to shoot. One side is just slight welded tighter than the other and your looks like it may be too. So, once I realized I could see this from above without flipping the frame, my 26"  63 (black)  Hornet is near identical to the 80. However, the 80,,  its forward canti connections look like they were pressed together while hot and become flexible so, added pressure can form the tube tighter into the bar. It's a real good looking joint on canti too front of bar. And I mean, better than a bead or wraparound weld to reinforce them.

It might be the same in newer frames, around 1980 vs older 60-70's B/C my 80 canti-tubes are open at the tips, a hole- air breather or moisture out let. While the 63 is caped and spot joined; weaker than 54. . That air hole could be allowing the top canti- tubes to flex tighter into the bar. That would be, like, a double improvement to element moisture and strengthen the connection.

As GT mentioned, about the change in frame manufacturing, well, at least it' happened before 63 and I'm thinking 59 sounds like a good spot. .  Since the name 'Heavy-Duty showed up in 65 catalog, probably 1st production is summer -fall 64.

Upon seeing these catalogs or order sheets from 67 and 80, I was surprised to note the use of 'Middleweight' at least for the 80 cruiser. " middleweight?'  Yet it actually, appears to be what really happened, not in as much as 1954, just because of S7 wheels but at the time This more automated EF machinery system began.  I mean, Electro forging wasn't new but, the frames and apparent system , less manpower and increased  automation was. I.E. it's not really the wheel sizes but the actual frames in all scales became weaker and lighter. To the extent that, that a full sized cruiser, ballooner became a 'Middleweight' at the same time the factory completely reengineered the system's frame shops, before 1963 to wit..

IDK but maybe that difference we see in earlier frames being stronger, the newer frames, which are basically near same until Chicago closed, were breaking and so, Schwinn beefed em up for 65, 'Heavy-Duti. A neglect had to be solved to entertain  a machine suitable as industrial purpose.

It's gone now, a little off topic, subject yet an clearer understanding of what's heavy and the evolution to simplify, less man power and increased automation too achieve the strength and durability Schwinn has been known for.

Understanding this, which I've understood for decades. The faster production moves the greater odds of error slipping through human inspection.

Comparatively, considering the difference of 54-when?, the 'heavy duty', in my opinion, is not as strong as prior.

I think, in your case, Lobster dude, retired, Either Schwinn, cheeped out or it slipped through inspection.

So, ya got a handle of where I can get some, local to me,  5 bucks a pound; yum, yum Lobsters please.

.


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## Xlobsterman (May 11, 2021)

Jeff54 said:


> Yeah, as said, difficult to shoot and get the angles I need with the black. But Been looking closer and inspecting, it's just like your yellow, only a little tighter on one side. At first, I thought it's  tighter but got to looking more at yours and stuck a flashlight into mine, under, over, and around, and it's actually about the same.  That nice bright yellow is a lot easier to shoot. One side is just slight welded tighter than the other and your looks like it may be too. So, once I realized I could see this from above without flipping the frame, my 26"  63 (black)  Hornet is near identical to the 80. However, the 80,,  its forward canti connections look like they were pressed together while hot and become flexible so, added pressure can form the tube tighter into the bar. It's a real good looking joint on canti too front of bar. And I mean, better than a bead or wraparound weld to reinforce them.
> 
> It might be the same in newer frames, around 1980 vs older 60-70's B/C my 80 canti-tubes are open at the tips, a hole- air breather or moisture out let. While the 63 is caped and spot joined; weaker than 54. . That air hole could be allowing the top canti- tubes to flex tighter into the bar. That would be, like, a double improvement to element moisture and strengthen the connection.
> 
> ...




Nothing slipped through the cracks with my bike! And here is another pic of a Heavy Duty with NO extra welds.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (May 11, 2021)

Th


Xlobsterman said:


> Nothing slipped through the cracks with my bike! And here is another pic of a Heavy Duty with NO extra welds.
> 
> View attachment 1409371
> 
> View attachment 1409372



That ain't  no  LOBSTA where are the claws haha


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## Xlobsterman (May 11, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> That ain't  no  LOBSTA where are the claws haha


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## Jeff54 (May 11, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> Nothing slipped through the cracks with my bike! And here is another pic of a Heavy Duty with NO extra welds.
> 
> View attachment 1409371
> 
> View attachment 1409372



Yup, I gotta go with the thought that Schwinn was pulling a screwy advisement on the 'Hevy-Duty' pitch. And it was right about 71-2 that was when I became discouraged over all  "Schwinn Quality". It wasn't this bike though, all of the brand new bikes in dealer's shops looked crapy because of the rims. I literally thought; because VW did it, rims and chrome parts were being made in Mexico and They'd joined the Huff and Murray death walk. After that period I never stopped in Schwinn shops again in over 25 years.

Aside, a 25 pound tail? Dam never seen that before, deal, 5 bucks a pound, cash or bikes pick up at local dock  today!


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## fatbike (May 17, 2021)

Rusty Klunker said:


> I dont think the HD's ever came with 2 or 3 speed hubs. But the bendix kickbacks had 3 or 4 different hub shells for different size spokes. The largest spoke hole ones I've seen have been found on reighley tandems.



I’ve had and seen HD yellow band 2spd heavy spoked Bendix before; they do exist


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## Rusty Klunker (May 17, 2021)

fatbike said:


> I’ve had and seen HD yellow band 2spd heavy spoked Bendix before; they do exist




Me too, I have two built. But were the bendix 2sp an option on a schwinn HD.


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## fatbike (May 17, 2021)

Rusty Klunker said:


> Me too, I have two built. But were the bendix 2sp an option on a schwinn HD.



I’m sure they were an option. I would have to dig into details with litterateur to have a real answer.


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## Rusty Klunker (May 17, 2021)

The two I have came off of Raleigh tandems. They both came with the optional offset brake arms. I guess that was something Raleigh used.


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## Xlobsterman (May 18, 2021)

fatbike said:


> I’m sure they were an option. I would have to dig into details with litterateur to have a real answer.




The standard "Heavy Duti" was never offered with a 2 speed from the factory, if any exist they were custom built by the dealer, or owner of the bike!

As previously posted, some of the earlier "American's" were offered in the heavy duty option with the 2 speeds. But that is before Schwinn offered the Heavy Duti as a model by itself.






						The Schwinn Heavy Duti | 1965 to 1983
					

Vintage Schwinn Heavy Duti were made from 1965 to 1983. This page shows images and text from old catalogs of this classic bicycle.



					bikehistory.org


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (May 18, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> The standard "Heavy Duti" was never offered with a 2 speed from the factory, if any exist they were custom built by the dealer, or owner of the bike!
> 
> As previously posted, some of the earlier "American's" were offered in the heavy duty option with the 2 speeds. But that is before Schwinn offered the Heavy Duti as a model by itself.



Did the tandems of the time come in 2 speed with heavy duty spokes?  The dealer or someone at some time could just swap out those wheels.


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## Xlobsterman (May 18, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Did the tandems of the time come in 2 speed with heavy duty spokes?  The dealer or someone at some time could just swap out those wheels.




Yes, that is possible since the Twinn's were available some years with the 2 speed kickback hubs!






						The Schwinn Twinn | 1964 to 1982
					

Vintage Schwinn Twinn were made from 1964 to 1982. This page shows images and text from old catalogs of this classic bicycle.



					bikehistory.org


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (May 18, 2021)

Can a regular hub be drilled to accept the larger spoke?


Xlobsterman said:


> Yes, that is possible since the Twinn's were available some years with the 2 speed kickback hubs!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Xlobsterman (May 18, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Can a regular hub be drilled to accept the larger spoke?




YES, if done properly.


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## BOB LOBLAW (May 18, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> YES, if done properly.



That's what _she_ said.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (May 18, 2021)

BOB LOBLAW said:


> That's what _she_ said.



No soup for you!


Xlobsterman said:


> YES, if done properly.



I was just wondering for the future, my brother is like a jeweler with a drill press but still unnecessary.


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## bloo (May 19, 2021)

The trouble with drilling out hubs is they may (or may not) have drilled too close to the edge with the smaller holes. You might not have enough metal left after you drill for any strength. That sort of has to be checked on a hub by hub basis, and if nobody else has done it you might have to buy one just to measure it and see.


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## Jeff54 (May 19, 2021)

I wouldn't drill spoke holes larger unless U have a drill press and set up to dead nail center of hole and, if only for short term use and trash it. Because, you'll be cutting the chrome off and raw steal no likes rust in a big hurry.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (May 20, 2021)

Jeff54 said:


> I wouldn't drill spoke holes larger unless U have a drill press and set up to dead nail center of hole and, if only for short term use and trash it. Because, you'll be cutting the chrome off and raw steal no likes rust in a big hurry.



Yea , I was just asking seemed like a real pain in the a$$. I didn't think about the chrome, good point.


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## Jeff54 (May 20, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Yea , I was just asking seemed like a real pain in the a$$. I didn't think about the chrome, good point.



Whelp, and but as in butt head and you didn't care about the rust factor there's this. I imagine a fully tooled bike shop could, should or might know of a specially designed drill bit that would be a breeze to use. Otherwise, he who patents one need only split the rights wit me. So, on this bit the tip would not have blades but only a hard tempered rod about 1/4"  long that is the exact size of current hole. From there the cutting, boring blade is enlarged to the size of the spokes you want or need to enlarge the new hole. The hardened tip should, would, could guide you dead center and wa-la!

Alternately Get a bit the size you want to enlarge it too and lightly, to avoid heating and ruining its temper,  grind about 1/4" down to the size of current hole. Recut, that is, sharpen the blades at new edges  and go. 

I mean, B/C, it would be more of A PIA to freaken set up a drill press and align each hole, flip over and do it again.

So, I can imagine that, there's been a  boring bit made over 100 year ago and a really good shop, could, should or ought to know a source to beg, borrow or not steel but buy, fer pretty fricken darned cheap, verse a danged drill press template/platform.


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## Xlobsterman (May 21, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Yea , I was just asking seemed like a real pain in the a$$. I didn't think about the chrome, good point.




The chrome loss is minimal. Just drill the hub properly, and you shouldn't have any issues!

BTW, if it wasn't for the guys doing stuff like this, and customizing the bikes back in the 70's, we would not have the billion dollar MTB industry we have today!!!!!


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## Jeff54 (May 26, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> The chrome loss is minimal. Just drill the hub properly, and you shouldn't have any issues!
> 
> BTW, if it wasn't for the guys doing stuff like this, and customizing the bikes back in the 70's, we would not have the billion dollar MTB industry we have today!!!!!



If it's any consolation prize then, if it wasn't for kids like me, in the 60's, Ya'll wouldn't have the stink-rat Krate either. I.E. Schwinn, better built in the day, a zillion year ago, but;  is such a copy-cat.


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## Xlobsterman (Jun 3, 2021)

irideiam said:


> It's amazing to me that you insist on passing on bad info when the proof is here, the regular middle weight frames do not have the extra welds.
> 
> Please Caber's check your Heavy Duti frames from '65 -'80 and jump in here, the madness of this discussion must end. Thanks




I guess from the lack of the Caber's posting pics of these HD frames with the extra welds, we have debunked your misconception that all HD frames had extra welds!


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Jun 3, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> I guess from the lack of the Caber's posting pics of these HD frames with the extra welds, we have debunked your misconception that all HD frames had extra welds!



You boys play nice. We are all here for the same thing, information. This is a very useful thread if it does not turn into a heavy weight sparring match. The TRUTH is what a person BELIEVES , two people can have the same facts and two different  different truths. Nothing is true, but all is true. It is up to the individual to determine for themselves.


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## SLM (Jun 3, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> I own one, and assembled many over the years when working at the shop. I see no physical difference in the frames on my Typhoon, Spitfire, Klunker, or Heavy duti.........!
> 
> View attachment 1398066



agree !  My spouse worked in many Schwinn shops and at Schwinn (engineer) ..he confirmed frames are the same... the filing around the welds might make them look different.....


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## cyclingday (Jun 3, 2021)

There is only one truth!
It either is, or it isn’t.
You can choose to accept it or not.
That is up to the individual, but the facts of the matter do not change what the actual truth is.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Jun 3, 2021)

Truth is only what an individual believes. 


cyclingday said:


> There is only one truth!



What do you believe in this case?


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## cyclingday (Jun 3, 2021)

Truth!
You want the truth?
You can’t handle the truth!
Lt. Col. Jessup.


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## cyclingday (Jun 3, 2021)

Sorry to be flippant, but I just have to laugh when someone says the truth is what you believe it to be.
The truth is what the facts say it is, based on scientific study or consensus amongst the foremost experts in the field of study.
Case in point.
You go to the doctor, and the doctor takes a biopsy sample and sends it in for analysis.
The prognosis comes back as cancer, so they do an MRI and a PT scan.
Yep!
You’ve got cancer.
You can believe what ever you want to believe, but the truth/facts/ scientific analysis says you’ve got cancer.
That’s the cold hard truth, whether you choose to believe it or not.
Plain and simple.
As for the Schwinn Heavy Duty?
I’d look at the period literature and source as much promotional information for that model as possible, and run with that, regardless of what the guy down the street says, unless he can zap you with the facts, ie, period factory literature on that specific model.


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## Xlobsterman (Jun 3, 2021)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> The TRUTH is what a person BELIEVES , two people can have the same facts and two different  different truths. Nothing is true, but all is true. It is up to the individual to determine for themselves.




DUDE..............what were you smoking when you wrote that? LOL


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Jun 3, 2021)

cyclingday said:


> The truth is what the facts say it is, based on scientific study or consensus amongst the foremost experts in the field of study.



There has been no scientific study in this case. We all have what  ever data has been provided by the participants. There has been valid arguments to both sides and at this point we must take what we have and decide  what is the truth. That is what I was saying , that when there is not solid proof like a biopsy to persuade your thinking it goes to the individual to decide what they want to believe. In this case I believe that the truth is Schwinn  originally  added extra welds to the HD well at least the 1965 KSHD because I own one. They may have added them to regular HD's as well. At some point they realized there was no reason to build two different frames with the same guarantee so they stopped the practice of the extra welds and continued to advertise it as a heavy duty frame. After all the regular frame was  heavy duty, so they weren't really misleading anyone. That is what I believe so it is the truth.


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## Xlobsterman (Jun 4, 2021)

cyclingday said:


> I’d look at the period literature and source as much promotional information for that model as possible, and run with that, regardless of what the guy down the street says, unless he can zap you with the facts, ie, period factory literature on that specific model.




That is correct. And so far with the documentation I have found and posted, it appears to be that the only HD's with the reinforced frames were the earlier King Sized models.

I would still like to see any documentation as it relates to the HD's having extra welds! So if anyone has it, please post it.


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## irideiam (Jun 4, 2021)

I am staying out of it this time around!


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## Xlobsterman (Jun 7, 2021)

irideiam said:


> I am staying out of it this time around!




That's probably best, that is unless you have any documentation to substantiate your claims?


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