# Schwinn frames with belt drive cut outs?



## jd56 (Feb 6, 2014)

I got a call the other day by a guy that has his childhood 1950 bike that has a frame with the cutout for a belt drive.
Out of my element here but, without looking at my catalogs, which type of heavyweight frame / model did Schwinn offer the belt drive cutout?
Was Simplex the only one? Was that frame from 1950?

As you can imagine I was excited to here that he wants me to buy the bike. But, knowledge is the key when trying to give a fair offer for the bike.
Unfortunately I have no pictures.
He did say it had a horn tank. No fender light. And I think he said no rear rack. And it was blue and white. Bought in 1950.

So, what do you gurus think he has? I know its an open ended question but what do you think it could be.
Pictures or catalog images would be helpful before I head that way.
Values would be nice too.

Thanks in advance.
JD......as always, always learning from you guys.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## mruiz (Feb 6, 2014)

Wizzer thier JD. Take a look at it?
 Mitch


----------



## bricycle (Feb 6, 2014)

Probably meant the fender was cut-out.....


----------



## jd56 (Feb 6, 2014)

I'm sure that is what he meant. Fender has cut out for the belt clearance.
I'm going to guess if this was a whizer frame the serial would have a WS prefix?
If it has a horn tank then there is no room for the fuel tank. 
Can't wait to see it.
Bit not knowing what I'm going to look at has the suspense building up.
I have no idea what value is and no one else would either if there are  no pictures.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bike (Feb 6, 2014)

*OK at least 4 HD frames*

were made for motor use- they either had the chain and seat stays flat on the inside, or they were pressed in so there was an indent. Never cut on the frame. Also many had a welded bung up on the chain stay to take the "standing" brake arm- this moved the pressure point of the brake arm from very near the drop out as on a typical bike (prone to bend under whizzer load) and moved it a few inches behind the crankset with the use of a special arm (stock arm aimed down.

Fenders that were factory were not really cut but stamped to clear the belt- if you see tin snip work this is a home instalation

search whizzer wz, s10, s4, and special

ALSO some b+6 frames had one or 2 stays pressed but were NOT whizzers- just a glitch on the production line I guess


----------



## jd56 (Feb 6, 2014)

Thanks guys...I'm guessing this might be a stamped rear fender...but you never know.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## greenephantom (Feb 8, 2014)

The factory indents in the left side stays are what you're looking for. Lots of kids added Whizzer kits onto existing bikes and chopped the rear fender up, no big whoop there (unless it's still got Whizzer bits still attached). A frame that left the factory intended for Whizzer use, that's something folks want.
Cheers, Geoff


----------



## jd56 (Feb 8, 2014)

*It's an S-4, I'm guessing*

So, I went to look at the bike today. First off, I was amazed of it's condition. Sure it has some wear but, where you would expect to see it.

It turns out this young man of 75 years received this bike for Christmas in 1952. At the age of 13, you have thought he would have rode it hard and put it away wet. He did love the bike and was the envy of the other farm boys in his neighborhood.
But, as it turns out the following year, he said he got his first car...a 1950 Chevy. He said that it wasn't rare to be in your early teens and driving. But riding the bike wasn't an option, so it was put away.
It does have the factory notched rear fender plus the 26" heavy duty spoked painted S2s, rear heavyduty brake arm (New Departure D), and the front brake hub. (my first front brake hub). Need to research the front brake assy to service it. More schooling, seems I'm always in need of more learning in this hobby. Even the Original Torrington pedals show very little wear on the blocks.
I'm not sure if I understand the feature of the recessed rear stays, as I don't see them on this frame.

As you can see this one was equipped with the springer front fork, horn tank, Gilette tires (these are pretty dryrotted unfortunately) and a messenger seat. Not the Deluxe seat I was hoping for but, the leather is in great shape for 62 years old. The 6 hole rear rack has some top paint damage but, it is straight. Missing the rear rack reflector. Grips are toast and not sure what happed to them to make then deteriorate like this. Maybe stored too close to a wood stove or something.
I did do a quick wipe down on the painted surfaces and was quite pleased with the preliminary results. This should clean up real well.

Still an amazing original owner find.

Serial is a May 1952.....C34942
Love the deep Blue and Ivory colors.  It would have been nice if it had a fender light but, I'll assume this would have been a special order fender with the trainlight.

I asked why his dad would have bought a Schwinn with motor option and he said that his dad was a motorhead.

As it looked before I bought it.









A little closer look once I got it home












After a mild wipe down


----------



## jd56 (Feb 8, 2014)

*4000 posts*

Dang, I just hit 4000 posts!!!
And now riding a 38 AutoCycle....I wish


Waxed the front fender a bit to see how much of the paint is still vibrant......not too bad




Anyone ever see grips this bad?


----------



## mruiz (Feb 8, 2014)

They look like melted marshmallows. Nice find JD. You are sure racking them up.
 Go easy on the wheels paint.
 Mitch


----------



## jd56 (Feb 8, 2014)

Melted marshmallows, great description.
Not much to do to these great conditioned rims, A little soap ought to do the job....just need warmer weather is all.
And have officially run out of room now. Wonder if the wife will allow a few to moved to the house.....NOT


----------



## mruiz (Feb 8, 2014)

That latest find sure is a keeper. Polish her up, should look great. Check the tank for battery leakage. 
 Mitch


----------



## jd56 (Feb 8, 2014)

Actually he said it only had batteries in it for a very short time.





Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## mruiz (Feb 8, 2014)

Nothing  else to say JD.


----------



## greenephantom (Feb 8, 2014)

Very nice find. If you need axle or cone bits for the front drum hub, bicyclebones on eBay has reproduction axle sets for these complete with cones and nuts and bearings. It's all a special thread size / pitch that is otherwise impossible to find.
Cheers, Geoff


----------



## fat tire trader (Feb 8, 2014)

Now you need a Whizzer motor for it...Those grips look like the windlace on my 47 GMC...


----------



## dynacycle (Feb 8, 2014)

*Whizzin*

Nice find!! I have one like it but no tank and fenders... 


















here's what those chainstays should look like



and brazed on extened brake arm clamp



and not all whizzer frames end with "wz"




I need a motor too, if you find 2 let me know lol!!
Fred


----------



## Boris (Feb 8, 2014)

Excellent JD, excellent! I see that yours has the "standing" brake arm and I'm assuming the welded bung that Paul was talking about. Grips would look great in your display cabinet if you could get them off in one piece!


----------



## bricycle (Feb 8, 2014)

Awesome JD!!!! Nice shape for sure!


----------



## vincev (Feb 9, 2014)

great find JD.


----------



## jd56 (Feb 12, 2014)

Some questions were presented about the year of this bike.
Given the location of the serial number that is on the bottom bracket led others to believe this was before the suspected 1952 assumption. 
Even though the serial number falls in the 1952 year database that many of us all refer to. But, if its a true 52 then it should be stamped on the dropout. Another clue was that it had the earlier non knurled S2 rims.

The owner was called again yesterday to try to jog his memory of the year he got it.
He recalls that in 1948, he had an uncle that had this very same model / color year bike. He fell in love with it and bugged his dad to get him one. So his dad spent a few years trying to find one. 
Someone mentioned that it could have been a hard to find color combo model and that it possibly was a showroom model that just didn't sell because of the specialty frame and higher price when it was new. 
Possibly a leftover from the stores stock that was now a reduced more affordable priced bike. Sounds like something my dad would have done....wait for the price to drop before buying.
He also vaguely remembers now, that he always thought it was a 48 Schwinn. But recently when he decided to let it go and find a new home for it, he researched the web to get values and more info on the model.
He found the serial number database and located the serial in the 1952 list....as I did. But in the back of his 75 year old mind, he still thought it was older than 1952.
But perhaps the addage that " if its on the internet it must be true" fell into play. Not that this serial number is incorrectly listed on those lists, just that not all the factors was at his disposal....ie....the 1948 Schwinn factory fire.

So possibly the mystery is solved.
It is not a 1952 but, a late post factory fire 1948 S4

Still a great looking bike and am excited to have it. 
OH and I asked him about the handlebars. He said that the bars were on the bike when he got it. He also said his uncles identical bike also had the same turned down shorter hbar.
So no modifications to the length as some presumed.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Mikeeebikey (Feb 12, 2014)

*sweet*

That is one sweet find! Ready to be restored...right?


----------



## wspeid (Feb 12, 2014)

Nicely done!


----------



## jd56 (Feb 12, 2014)

Mikeeebikey said:


> That is one sweet find! Ready to be restored...right?




For sure going to be cleaned up and hopefully if all goes as planned it will be ready for a summer of fun riding at the ocean front.
Fortunately there isn't much to restore on this all original. The paint is amazing and should shine up very nicely. 

Needs new grips which I think I have. Some new tires (thinking of some old blackwalled Goodyear Wingfoots I have. Even though finding a nice replacement Gillette that it came with would be cool too. As the front tire is in pretty good condition), a replacement rear reflector for the rear rack, maybe a dropstand and clip (even though it has the factory welded kickstand), some grease service and freeing up the tight forebrake cable. Add some batteries to the great condition horn and perhaps find a nice handlebar or stem mounted set of twin lights for it. 
I think it needs headlights, don't you?

I am partial to the larger chainrings of this era but, it was so equipped with the smaller one that is on the bike at present. So I may not change that.

And thanks for the comments guys. This truly may be the one find that tops all that I have acquired to date. And a great story from the owner, even if it had some mystery.


----------



## bike (Feb 12, 2014)

*All good*

I think it needs headlights, don't you?  WHIZZER OFFERED A GENERATOR LIGHT KIT RUN OFF THE MOTOR Or use a bar mount.. I personally would not drill holds in the fender for a light..

I am partial to the larger chainrings of this era but, it was so equipped with the smaller one that is on the bike at present. So I may not change that. PEDALING A HEAVY WHIZZER IS EASIER WITH THE SMALLER RING


----------



## Coaster Brake (Feb 12, 2014)

Absolutely killer find JD, what I would have done to get my hands on that when I was building my whizzer!


----------



## cyclebuster (Feb 13, 2014)

*I have one too...*

my serial number is within 300 of the fire restart... BEFORE. My Whizzer was likely IN the building as it burned. Mine has small sprocket, heavy springer, drum front brake, Plain flat rim S2ish, frame crimp, extended brake arm and brazed clamp, and no evidence of engine mounting.  I am going to use a Lincoln badge I took off a ladies 48.


----------



## Larmo63 (Feb 13, 2014)

Schwinn/Whizzer dedicated frames usually had smaller front sprockets to get the thing going

quicker. I had a women's size sweetheart sprocket on my Whizzer I built. You could do a standard

B-6 style or a regular size sweetheart. I have one of each available. The sweetheart is rusty tho.

Those are easy to find. Great bike, cool story, and good luck with it.!!!!!!!!


----------

