# Lightweight locking fork question



## Schwinny (Jun 20, 2021)

I've got a locking lightweight fork I've been staring at for quite awhile. A few weeks ago I decided to start moving in the direction of getting it ready to put on a bike.
I sent the lock to Wes and he's got it all ready but brought up a point that I'll need to address.
I guess this question is for those that have a lightweight with a locking fork or someone with the parts lists.
Is there a special lightweight locking fork  bearing cup or are they all the same? I've noticed these special lower bearing cups listed as being for the springers but haven't seen them listed for standard type forks (or truss type for that matter) on the balooners. And since these forks are pretty rare on lightweights, If there is a special one for lightweights, its probably impossible to find.
I mocked it up to start with and it works to lock the pin into the downtube recess but there is a lot of play so I imagine these use a special lower bearing cup also.
Wes mentioned a pin inside the head tube to place the bearing cup which leads me to believe the frame head tubes are special made for locking forks also but I can deal with that I'm sure. I can even make a properly drilled bronze sleeve to drive up there if it comes to that, but proper parts in the first place are of course are better.
Anybody know?


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## GTs58 (Jun 20, 2021)

I hope this helps and is CORRECT.


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## Schwinny (Jun 20, 2021)

That is some great info and I'm going to file that away. Thank You.
"Except Continental" but no mention of the Continental otherwise.
The fork I have is most likely late 40's, early 50's but It was by itself, not on a bike when I got it.
Black with the handpainted white chevron with red trim. Didnt seem like a Conti paint scheme right off hand.
I'll have to look around. I've had it in my head that it came off an early 50's World Traveler because I've seen the same fork paint scheme on one of those.
I seem to remember a locking fork on other than Continental lightweight bikes.... Hmmm
Does that mean that Continentals dont need a special cup? Or that other lightweights do?
The muddy water has not cleared up... just swirling now...


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## GTs58 (Jun 20, 2021)

One has to consider that a bike with a front fork mounted caliper most likely didn't have the Cycelock.


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## juvela (Jun 21, 2021)

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here is one of these gadgets on a Peugeot from about 1954 -




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## Schwinny (Jun 21, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> One has to consider that a bike with a front fork mounted caliper most likely didn't have the Cycelock.



It's Kinda cool that there is such an array of configurations. Keeping things straight as they were being assembled must have been a chore in itself. Mine actually does have a front caliper. It's another issue to solve for since it mounts with a bolt that screws into the fork into a threaded boss rather than a bolt that goes all the way through having the fender mount clip attached to the rear. This one has to have the fender clip mounted directly behind the caliper itself which means there has to be a specific fender for this model type.
Also interesting is that there is not one iota of chrome on the caliper. Its like it was never chromed. I have seen a couple of these by now, both front and rear, and all have been chrome versions.
It was all together like it was just pulled off a bike when I first got it, grease, dirt and all. So I dont think someone started a stripping routine. I'm the one that has started to take the paint off the fork. Again interesting is that the fork is pretty rough textured. They used a lot of sanding primer to get the finish smooth.
The key cylinder is angled facing the left side of the bike and there is no caliper/ fender mounting hole coming out the rear of the crown head. Its pretty busy inside the steer tube in that area. It _must_ have a fender clip on it to screw the caliper down tight or the tip of the bolt hits the inside mechanism. I guess one could supplant a washer but you'd have to figure that one out first trial and error if a person were to just want to casually remove the fenders in the course of owning the original bike this was on.
The lock pin itself, the one that does the locking actually comes out both sides of the steer tube. I dont remember if it comes out both sides at the same time or if its action depends on which way you turn the key.
The whole thing is a puzzle.


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## Schwinny (Jun 21, 2021)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> here is one of these gadgets on a Peugeot from about 1954 -
> 
> ...



Thats very cool with a sprung cover to keep the dirt out.
That rings a bell, I think Ive seen one of those before....
Wes said that mine was especially filthy inside so a cover isn't such a bad idea.


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## juvela (Jun 21, 2021)

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very fine job with the description and photos here!   😉 

makes me glad you are the one embarking upon the project...

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another cycle producer who fitted steering locks to some of their models was Gnome Rhone of France

the frames of their products are of a unique bimetal construction with the three main tubes of dural paired with steel rear triangles and steel forks

this fuzzy image shows one of their steering locks.  appreciate it looks like it could be a bent pump peg but it is a real steering lock.  the pump pegs on this bicycle are on the back side of its seat tube.





here is an illustration of a complete machine of 1943 bearing one of these locks -





in this picture of the bottom bracket area the combination nature of the frame construction can be seen -





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## Schwinny (Jun 21, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> I hope this helps and is CORRECT.
> 
> View attachment 1433577



Shazaaam!
On this sheet is an answer to a question I asked a few weeks back !!
I was looking for a chrome (stainless) crown for a balloon tire fork and as people looked through their things and we looked through the catalogs looking for a pictured example, we came to the conclusion that the balloon tire models never came with a fork crown of this type.
This sheet shows Part #2604 as a crown for a balloon tire fork.
Apparently in the league with hens teeth.
Wonders never cease.


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## SirMike1983 (Jun 21, 2021)

I had one of the pre-war "flat top" type New World forks with both a lock and a caliper brake. I sold the bike quite awhile ago. I bought a new key and everything for it. The set up requires a different caliper bolt that has a blind mount to the front of the fork crown.


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## Schwinny (Jun 21, 2021)

SirMike1983 said:


> I had one of the pre-war "flat top" type New World forks with both a lock and a caliper brake. I sold the bike quite awhile ago. I bought a new key and everything for it. The set up requires a different caliper bolt that has a blind mount to the front of the fork crown.
> 
> View attachment 1433722



Interesting... more mud to the mix.
Mine has that same caliper set-up
Do you remember or know if it had any special type of lower head bearing cup?


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## SirMike1983 (Jun 21, 2021)

I don't recall what the bearing cup was on the fork. I didn't change the races, at least I don't recall doing that. It looks to me like you have the correct caliper bolt for the locking fork. It threads into the fork itself, and then a nut with splines on it locks the fork in place against the fork crown. It's a fiddly set up to get just right. The front fender also has a little different set up in that the bracket mounts to the front of the crown rather than the rear. A standard front brake set up is easier to set up and adjust correctly. The locking fork is interesting and probably a little more collectible, but I prefer the standard because I'm picky about brake feel and function, and it's easier to adjust the standard.


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## GTs58 (Jun 21, 2021)

Schwinny said:


> Shazaaam!
> On this sheet is an answer to a question I asked a few weeks back !!
> I was looking for a chrome (stainless) crown for a balloon tire fork and as people looked through their things and we looked through the catalogs looking for a pictured example, we came to the conclusion that the balloon tire models never came with a fork crown of this type.
> This sheet shows Part #2604 as a crown for a balloon tire fork.
> ...



Those fork crowns came about on the 1959 models and at that time the only balloon tire bikes were the Cycle Truck, Phantom and Wasp. The Phantom had a springer and I don't think the CT ever had them. The Wasp was first seen with them on the 1962 models so those balloon fork crowns are like hens teeth. I never checked the later 70's balloon Spits or Cruisers to see what size they have, but that's probably your only field to harvest.


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## GTs58 (Jun 21, 2021)

Schwinny said:


> I've got a locking lightweight fork I've been staring at for quite awhile. A few weeks ago I decided to start moving in the direction of getting it ready to put on a bike.
> I sent the lock to Wes and he's got it all ready but brought up a point that I'll need to address.
> I guess this question is for those that have a lightweight with a locking fork or someone with the parts lists.
> Is there a special lightweight locking fork  bearing cup or are they all the same? I've noticed these special lower bearing cups listed as being for the springers but haven't seen them listed for standard type forks (or truss type for that matter) on the balooners. And since these forks are pretty rare on lightweights, If there is a special one for lightweights, its probably impossible to find.
> ...



Schwinn had multiple types of head sets and the balls ranged from 1/8" to 3/16". The deluxe head set used 5/32" caged balls and there is a head set that takes 5/32" at the top and 3/16" at the bottom. If your mock up was sloppy see if the ball size was the 5/32".


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## Schwinny (Jun 21, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> Schwinn had multiple types of head sets and the balls ranged from 1/8" to 3/16". The deluxe head set used 5/32" caged balls and there is a head set that takes 5/32" at the top and 3/16" at the bottom. If your mock up was sloppy see if the ball size was the 5/32".



That would affect the vertical. 
The recess in the head tube that the lock pin enters, and extends to the downtube for welding together, is almost the size of a nickel. The movement is in the horizontal (back and forth). The 1/4" pin slopping around in a nickel size hole, creates a moment arm that turns into 3" of movement at the wheel and handlebars. The first couple times its janked back and forth will mess things up in the pin/lock mech.
If there isn't a special bearing cup then I imagine that this area is prepped beforehand on a lock equipped head tube.
The frame I'm going to use isn't one that came with a locking fork.
Or... maybe the Continental is the only head tube that is prepped for the lock pin before hand so it doesn't need the special bearing cup. Hmmmmm.
The head tubes are the same size.
I think maybe I'll get one of these special bearing cups and see where that gets me.
Thanks for all the prodding, it makes me think on it more.


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## Schwinny (Jun 21, 2021)

SirMike1983 said:


> I don't recall what the bearing cup was on the fork. I didn't change the races, at least I don't recall doing that. It looks to me like you have the correct caliper bolt for the locking fork. It threads into the fork itself, and then a nut with splines on it locks the fork in place against the fork crown. It's a fiddly set up to get just right. The front fender also has a little different set up in that the bracket mounts to the front of the crown rather than the rear. A standard front brake set up is easier to set up and adjust correctly. The locking fork is interesting and probably a little more collectible, but I prefer the standard because I'm picky about brake feel and function, and it's easier to adjust the standard.



Oh, yeah Im sure of that fiddling issue.
I even thought of putting one of the early Weinmann center pull calipers in place of the original caliper. I'd have to make  up a mounting stud situation for it though so I thought Id try the original one first.
I've planned on putting this on my FrankenLightweight that currently has a Tange on it.
I'll lose the smoothness but it will be a good display bike for all the coolest parts Schwinn has made that will fit.
The Tange is a 21mm i.d steer tube and this older one will also allow me to put the long stem dbl adjustable stem on that's been waiting. That stem will help get the bars up higher for me since I really need the grips about 3" above the seat for comfortable riding. I have a right arm issue that won't allow me to ride in too much of a bent over fashion for very long.
I'll never win any races. In a sit-up position I'm more like a quick rolling brick going down the road.


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