# Service help needed for my Spaceliner I'm at my whits end!!



## skamatt23 (Feb 22, 2022)

My Spaceliner has failed to launch...

I'm starting this new post to hopefully find som help getting my two speed kickback fixed or advice on how to move forward...

In my other thread the CABE has been indispensable with photos/links/resources and advice on servicing my Bendix kickback but I am at a dead end and don't want to keep throwing money at it. Replaced a new index spring and I still can't get it to shift despite a complete teardown.

OPTION 1 - Anyone/a shop in the tri-state area I can meet with to fix this? Someone who may have parts/donor I may need despite not seeing damage internally? Hub is currently built into a newly laced wheel. All my shops have closed up permanently that previously could have handled this. Is mailing this to Bicycle Heaven my only rebuild option from a shop that can work with this? 

OPTION 2- Find another kickback hub that has already been tested/rebuilt/ known working condition 100% and lace it to my wheel? 

OPTION 3 - Cut my losses and go back to the spokes/original one speed hub I started with.

It is killing me that I assembled it fine but it won't shift. New indexing spring, no gunk inside etc. I really want to ride this next season to the Unisphere for the World's Fair and have a cool period correct ride for the landmark. 

I'm willing to pay to have this properly set up and shipped if needed.

Thanks in advance!


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## J-wagon (Feb 22, 2022)

Sounds very exasperating. So you mounted the wheel onto the bike and hand pedaled / rode it, and shifting still doesn't work?


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## skamatt23 (Feb 22, 2022)

Yep.
No idea why. Every internally is lined up, new index spring, brake plates lined up to hub, tabs where they need to be and I only have one gear.


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## skamatt23 (Feb 22, 2022)

Frustrating yes. It's simple enough.


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## vincev (Feb 22, 2022)

i rebuilt a kick back and it worked perfectly on the bench but when I assembled it I only had 1 speed.I packed it with grease which prevented the mechanism from working,I took it apart and cleand everything and lightly oiled instead of using grease and it still works great.


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## bloo (Feb 22, 2022)

Op 1). If you are going to mail it somewhere, I suspect there are pros right here on the forum who can help.

Op 2). Not likely to go well in my opinion. Most of these need to be torn down, working or not. This sounds like throwing money out the window. There are brand new ones made in India, but it seems like a lot of money when you already have what you have.

Op 3). Mechanically there's nothing wrong with the idea, but I think it would be a shame.

P.S. you should be able to watch this thing shift with the parts out of the hub. Tabs dropping in and out of a notch on that new spring of yours.

Best of luck whatever you do.


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## PCHiggin (Feb 23, 2022)

Frustrating but  They’re really not overly complex. Good luck finding a local bike shop that even heard of a Bendix hub let alone one which  hasn’t been made since 1964 or ‘65. Only one anywhere near me. YOU CAN FIGURE IT OUT.  Do the brakes work? Take it apart again, check the condition and positions of the clutch retarder couplings, Items 11 and 13 in the manual. The clutch/s should still work but not very well if these are really worn, you might have somehow have them on wrong. Seems to me the clutch/s aren’t working. Wish I had it in front of me,at least I could tell you  the problem. Only ones I couldn’t fix with a good cleaning and tweaking of the index spring had broken or missing parts.


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## PCHiggin (Feb 23, 2022)

If you think you really can’t fix it and are willing to  ship it, Call Denny @ East Side Bike Shop
in Centerline Mi. He’s an old certified Schwinn guy and knows these well. I’d tackle it for you gratis but I no longer have any parts other than index springs and discs


			Eastside Bike Shop


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## Kickstand3 (Feb 23, 2022)

skamatt23 said:


> My Spaceliner has failed to launch...
> 
> I'm starting this new post to hopefully find som help getting my two speed kickback fixed or advice on how to move forward...
> 
> ...



@Krakatoa


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## skamatt23 (Feb 23, 2022)

Yeah I did think about that but other than the races and loose balls I was super careful where I oiled and where I greased.


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## skamatt23 (Feb 23, 2022)

bloo said:


> Op 1). If you are going to mail it somewhere, I suspect there are pros right here on the forum who can help.
> 
> Op 2). Not likely to go well in my opinion. Most of these need to be torn down, working or not. This sounds like throwing money out the window. There are brand new ones made in India, but it seems like a lot of money when you already have what you have.
> 
> ...



In my hand it is not working properly or returning despite the new index spring. The videos I have seen on line seem to behave a little differently but I can't find anything else worn or gummed up. It is clean as a whistle and lubed properly but something else is not working.


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## skamatt23 (Feb 23, 2022)

PCHiggin said:


> If you think you really can’t fix it and are willing to  ship it, Call Denny @ East Side Bike Shop
> in Centerline Mi. He’s an old certified Schwinn guy and knows these well. I’d tackle it for you gratis but I no longer have any parts other than index springs and discs
> 
> 
> Eastside Bike Shop



No I appreciate it and am prepared to compensate with cash or ipa lol but all the local OG shops near me have evidently closed their doors.


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## skamatt23 (Feb 23, 2022)

PCHiggin said:


> Frustrating but  They’re really not overly complex. Good luck finding a local bike shop that even heard of a Bendix hub let alone one which  hasn’t been made since 1964 or ‘65. Only one anywhere near me. YOU CAN FIGURE IT OUT.  Do the brakes work? Take it apart again, check the condition and positions of the clutch retarder couplings, Items 11 and 13 in the manual. The clutch/s should still work but not very well if these are really worn, you might have somehow have them on wrong. Seems to me the clutch/s aren’t working. Wish I had it in front of me,at least I could tell you  the problem. Only ones I couldn’t fix with a good cleaning and tweaking of the index spring had broken or missing parts.



I am positive I followed the instructions to the T for both Sheldon Brown and Schwinn. I reassembled it properly as far as I can tell I just need another set of eyes.


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## skamatt23 (Feb 23, 2022)

Guys sometimes as simple as something can be a step gets in the way. I'm plenty confident but this needs to be in the hands of someone with experience.


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## J-wagon (Feb 23, 2022)

Mayberry someone can video call with you like zoom FaceTime or similar


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## PCHiggin (Feb 23, 2022)

Ok, Take it apart again, Reassemble it OUTSIDE OF THE SHELL best you can on white background and take some pics. Lets see whatcha have


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## skamatt23 (Feb 23, 2022)

I'll try to get a video up tomorrow night sounds good.


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## partsguy (Feb 23, 2022)

I don’t know where you live, but Tipp Cyclery in Tipp City, OH rebuilt the transmission for my ‘55 Radiobike and did a phenomenal job. It is a Bendix 2-speed manual. They also ordered the correct spokes and did all the assembly work. Top notch.


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## piercer_99 (Feb 23, 2022)




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## J-wagon (Feb 23, 2022)

Some pics of my bendix red band kickback assembled various angles


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## Solo Rider (Feb 23, 2022)

Been there before didn't work out well . I live in a small town in Texas no bike shops only Walmart . A family member told me of a place called Village cycle out of Arlington Heights IL. I sent him my red band 24" wheels for a total overhaul & laced in stainless. 
Unbelievable !!! Talk to Joe


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## Jeff54 (Feb 23, 2022)

skamatt23 said:


> Yeah I did think about that but other than the races and loose balls I was super careful where I oiled and where I greased.



There's something you missed and I understand your frustration B/C it's got to be simple and Simple can can get your goat.. These are not very difficult to take apart and reassemble. Heck I did it as a kid and had 1 rule: "It's mind against metal. Mind created metal so, metal loses every time."

Back then I had no help, books or diagrams just determination.   That's all you need: "Determination".

And wish I had what you can get now, jeez. Use these two videos Bendix 2 speed disassembly part I and II, repair and rebuild:

Part I : 




Part II assembly:


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## Goldenrod (Feb 24, 2022)

Solo Rider said:


> Been there before didn't work out well . I live in a small town in Texas no bike shops only Walmart . A family member told me of a place called Village cycle out of Arlington Heights IL. I sent him my red band 24" wheels for a total overhaul & laced in stainless.
> Unbelievable !!! Talk to Joe



Try Village CycleSport, Barrington, Illinois for Joe on Northwest Highway.  I'm a buddy.


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## skamatt23 (Feb 24, 2022)

Bear with me this is my first YouTube videos and they are unedited for length.

Video 1 - Operation on the bike 





Video 2- Disassembled





Video 3- Assembled


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## skamatt23 (Feb 24, 2022)

Jeff54 said:


> There's something you missed and I understand your frustration B/C it's got to be simple and Simple can can get your goat.. These are not very difficult to take apart and reassemble. Heck I did it as a kid and had 1 rule: "It's mind against metal. Mind created metal so, metal loses every time."
> 
> Back then I had no help, books or diagrams just determination.   That's all you need: "Determination".
> 
> ...



I needed his videos to go a step further putting it in the hub shell but yes these were very helpful


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## Jeff54 (Feb 24, 2022)

skamatt23 said:


> I needed his videos to go a step further putting it in the hub shell but yes these were very helpful



Yeah, sorry bout that, I presumed or Ass-U-N-Me-d he completed assembly. However I'd reverse taking it apart.

Also just noticed he's got 4 parts albeit numbered funky. Certainly worth attention are the extra two showing how it works: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3n0ffUd1sKOxrUMZB2vA6na1EZS3lnuE

I can't tell what's going wrong in your video except it wants to fight. Maybe do a practice run assembling all the guts out of the hub exactly reverse of what he does, including the side he's doing it.
Man, I mean, I can only remember that there was a trick I'd explain to other kids in the hood but, we're talking, like, 1966 or somting. I guess I did what the video guy does; Figure it out without the hub. If you haven't seen  the other two maybe, they'll help.

And IDK but the one brake I disliked was New Departure, a Pain in the butt getting the rings aligned as inserting. Little did I know then, was to grease it up enough to make them stick. Too simple; I fought and fought wit ND's but thanks to you tube 4 year ago, a piece of cake.
Regardless, after seeing this guy's videos , the slots inner hub and similar rings on brake side, I wonder if these need to be aligned before inserting too.


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## Rusty Klunker (Feb 24, 2022)

From the start there shouldn't be that much drag while spinning and certainly not with the bearings that loose. You shouldn't have anywhere near that much play.
Getting to the problem, you assemble from the brake end first. Hard to see on my phone but something is not right with the clutch assembly. I cant see the tangs but the ab-21 should hold it all together. Install that as one piece along with the brakes. Then screw the sprocket on. Kinda hard to see but the outer bearing race on the sprocket side might be upside down too.

Give us a good shot of the ab-21 and that assembly together.

Good job with the video, lets make this thing work.


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## skamatt23 (Feb 24, 2022)

Let me look up what am AB 21 is and I'll repost later today or tomorrow.


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## Rusty Klunker (Feb 24, 2022)

Bad pic but I have it. The AB-21, AB-23 and AB-3 go in as one piece. The AB-21 holds it together. It needs to have both tangs and both windows for the detents have to be complete and not broken out


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## skamatt23 (Feb 24, 2022)

I'll double check that. If it goes in as one piece those little nips would attach AB23-AB3. I'm pretty sure I did that let me see again.


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## J-wagon (Feb 24, 2022)

Page 1 and 2 have parts names for red band 



			https://www.sheldonbrown.com/sutherland/CB-IGH-3-bendix.pdf


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## skamatt23 (Feb 24, 2022)

Folks...I'm speechless except for this video lol. Anyone who chimed in for my various threads on this mini nightmare please watch for the thrilling conclusion!


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## skamatt23 (Feb 24, 2022)

J-Wagon, Rusty and the other contributors THANK YOU!
I had to deconstruct the order I put it together. I needed a video that doesn't exist just showing me what was assembled going into the hub and I would have been home free.
That being said when I was able to assemble on the BRAKE side as one unit with all the little nipples and fingers inserted where they needed to be and then putting the drive side on it went together PERFECTLY!
I had a low gear!
After kickback you feel low for a second and then HIGH GEAR WHOAAAA!

It's alive! Thanks for helping me get this girl out the door with all her gears! I feel like a dummy for not thinking about the assembly a little more "outside the hub" so to speak lol.

Tears right now finally conquering this stupidly simple design. Now I can be the guy to help assist others with their hubs!


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## Livmojoe (Feb 24, 2022)

Ha, just stumbled across this thread.  Matt, that's awesome news, and your last video had me in tears.  I've so been there before with similar bike/hub struggles, and glad you were able to persevere, figure it out, and get it to the finish line.  Congrats.


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## skamatt23 (Feb 24, 2022)

I am not too proud to admit I missed something but I beat myself up over it for I think 4 total hours. What the heck is wrong with me? Everyone is saying it's easy? I needed to visualize that critical step and a bunch of folks just got me on the right path and my face just lit up when it came together in my hands. To feel that second gear finally hit was like winning the lottery.


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## nightrider (Feb 24, 2022)

So glad you figured it out! I was going to suggest you de- lace the hub and send it to me. I would have got it working and sent it back on my dime.  But, you would have still felt defeated. You now have the satisfaction that you were able to conquer it on your own!  Happy for you!
Big smile!!


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## skamatt23 (Feb 24, 2022)

Listen I was ready to give my first child to get this going. I felt like I should have left well enough alone with the original setup. I hate when I can't fix something and worse when I can't pay someone in a local bike shop to just get me out of a tough spot.


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## nightrider (Feb 24, 2022)

I also must say, if you were competent enough to disassemble and reassemble to that point. You would definitely be able to figure it out.


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## Rusty Klunker (Feb 24, 2022)

I couldnt see it in your video other then the 23 and the 3 weren't connected and just flopping around.

Here is a broken AB-21. The 23 and 3  (23 and 303 on a yellow) work together but needs the 21 to do it. This one is no good. With the window being open they dont stay linked. 
The way you put it together and screwed the 23 tight the AB-3 probably couldn't clip in. 

I find these broken by being forced apart, taken apart from the brake side and trying to pull it out. Once that window is broken its done!


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## Rusty Klunker (Feb 24, 2022)

Now go enjoy your ride!!👍👏


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## Rusty Klunker (Feb 24, 2022)

nightrider said:


> So glad you figured it out! I was going to suggest you de- lace the hub and send it to me. I would have got it working and sent it back on my dime.  But, you would have still felt defeated. You now have the satisfaction that you were able to conquer it on your own!  Happy for you!
> Big smile!!



I was thinking the same thing. Shipping a wheel back and forth isn't cheap. He had already done the hard part... he cleaned it. LOL


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## PCHiggin (Feb 24, 2022)

Figured it was the clutch retarders. Happy for you man!! Enjoy!!


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## Rusty Klunker (Feb 24, 2022)

J-wagon said:


> Some pics of my bendix red band kickback assembled various angles
> View attachment 1576424
> 
> View attachment 1576425
> ...




Hey J, just going through this and looking at your pictures I see flat spots ground into the AB-23. Is this something you did or did you get it this way? What is the purpose?


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## J-wagon (Feb 24, 2022)

Rusty Klunker said:


> Hey J, just going through this and looking at your pictures I see flat spots ground into the AB-23. Is this something you did or did you get it this way? What is the purpose?



Wow. I didn't notice before. This is untested hub I serviced. Once I mount it and ride, will see what happens! 🤞
It seemed ok on stand hand pedaling...


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## Rusty Klunker (Feb 24, 2022)

They are the teeth that bite into the hub shell engaging 2nd gear. Not sure what they were thinking? Those early splined versions came on red bands and the early yellow and blue bands. In 66-67 bendix changed it to what looks like a screw. Same part number and they interchange.


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## Jeff54 (Feb 25, 2022)

Yeah me too. Expected and hoping you could solve it because, giving up your first child to _Rumpelstiltskin_ only works out in fairy tales.


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## skamatt23 (Feb 25, 2022)

nightrider said:


> I also must say, if you were competent enough to disassemble and reassemble to that point. You would definitely be able to figure it out.



But the critical issue here is I completed the incorrect step a dozen times convinced I was right when I wasn't.


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## skamatt23 (Feb 25, 2022)

Jeff54 said:


> Yeah me too. Expected and hoping you could solve it because, giving up your first child to _Rumpelstiltskin_ only works out in fairy tales.



Sometimes when you want something bad enough and you put in the time and keep failing you are motivated to overpay to make things right


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## razinhellcustomz (Feb 26, 2022)

skamatt23 said:


> Folks...I'm speechless except for this video lol. Anyone who chimed in for my various threads on this mini nightmare please watch for the thrilling conclusion!



Congrats Matt and great job with your Spaceliner.. RideOnn.. Razin..


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## skamatt23 (Feb 26, 2022)

Thanks will do!


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## Trilobite (Feb 26, 2022)

Hey Matt, that was a moving video; we’ve all in been there in some way, shape, or form, in whatever sphere. So glad you were successful in taking it “to the next level.” Knew you would, and it has a fitting home with you. Cheers. 🍾


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## piercer_99 (Feb 27, 2022)

glad you got it going.

I knew I had this instruction manual from Bendix, just forget where.

anyway, better late than never.


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## J-wagon (Feb 28, 2022)

Rusty Klunker said:


> They are the teeth that bite into the hub shell engaging 2nd gear. Not sure what they were thinking?



Not sure why either. But I mounted wheel and pedaled around, shifts fine and brakes good!


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