# Roadmaster 36-41?



## ColsonTwinbar (Mar 23, 2008)

Not sure on the exact date on this one. Anyone know what model it is and where I can get some pictures of the original so I can start tracking down the right parts. I'm just beginning to do restorations and I'm also wondering whether its kosher to JB weld the frame joints instead of rebraising since this one was rewelded at one time.
I don't have pictures of the whole frame now, I'll try and post some later. It has parallel curving top tubes, curved rear seatstays and rear facing dropouts with chain adjusters.


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## JOEL (Mar 24, 2008)

Hard to tell from the pictures but that looks like a Schwinn frame.


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## Aeropsycho (Mar 24, 2008)

*frame*

35-37... more pics!!!:o


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## ColsonTwinbar (Mar 24, 2008)

Its definitely a Roadmaster one of those last pictures showed whats left of the decals. I know I will only be able to narrow it down to a few years, but that will help me figure what the parts would be.


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## AntonyR (Mar 24, 2008)

*'39 Mens Special*

It was the basic model, no tank or other frills.


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## AntonyR (Mar 24, 2008)

I have a few things for it if you decide to go ahead with the restoration. PM me if you're interested.


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## ColsonTwinbar (Mar 25, 2008)

Awesome, I'm interested in a fork and truss rods, but I'm just a poor college kid so I might just put it together with the other parts I have until this summer


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## militarymonark (Mar 25, 2008)

dont you know we're all poor kids


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## ColsonTwinbar (Mar 27, 2008)

Can anyone get me a picture of the headtube welds of a similar roadmaster. I need to see how much they filled in with brazing.


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## AntonyR (Mar 27, 2008)

*alrighty*



ColsonTwinbar said:


> Can anyone get me a picture of the headtube welds of a similar roadmaster. I need to see how much they filled in with brazing.




For the most part, the welds are fairly clean, not anything like that weld at the hanger in your photo. :eek:

If the finish matters and you have an extra $50 or so bouncing around, take it to a welder/fabricator and clean up/fix the welds. Ground flat you may not need any brazing done, or maybe they also have a bit of brazing rod and can do that too.


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## ColsonTwinbar (Mar 27, 2008)

Awesome, thanks.
last night i just filed the spots that were rebraised with a 1/4 diameter round file. It gives it a little bit of that smooth look, I don't think its really worth getting it down to that hard angle in those pictures. http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/579.htm
theres a picture of the welds off of a 39 supreme, they are filled in alot, I thought they would be similar.


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## RMS37 (Mar 31, 2008)

Hi

A couple of additional points regarding your frame:

This style of frame with two arcing top tubes is generally referred to as a Double Bar Roadster.  

This was the bread and butter frame for Cleveland Welding from 1936 through 1939+. While it could be optioned up to a top line model in 1936, this style had become a price leader by the end of its run and was also the basis for 24? and 20? juvenile models.

The early frames (1936-37) have top tubes spaced closer together than the later frames (1938-39). 

Your frame is the later style. Placing the serial number in the sequence taken from my collection, I would estimate that your frame was produced in mid 1938.

Another difference between earlier and later versions of this frame is the amount of fillet welding at the joints.  CWC?s Master Weld frame process involved the use of electrically welded inner sleeve lugs that eliminated externally visible welding from all the joints except the connection points for the lower top bar.  

When your frame was repaired someone ran a weld bead externally to repair a break or crack. You are wise not to remove too much of this weld as it may be all that is holding the bike together.  A perfect restoration would be difficult and involve undoing the repairs and finding a way to duplicate the Master Weld process.

The 1939 catalog cut from Anthony represents the most likely original configuration for your bike.

However, there is a tank for the late version of this frame which was used on frames sold through Montgomery Ward , Western Autos and other distributors,  The tank looks like the Snyder tank used most famously on the 1937 Hawthorne Zep but the two are not interchegeable. I don?t believe the tank was offered by CWC on Roadmaster branded bicycles. But there is a hole in my literature collection large enough to slide one through. (Low-priced models ? 1938) 

I believe a picture of a Western Flyer with this tank appears on Dave Stromberger?s site and another (displayed as a Roadmaster, but obviously restored to taste) is pictured on page 108 of The Evolution of the Bicycle, volume one.

Also, I notice you are located in Bellingham. Our 20th Annual Old Bike Swap Meet will be held in Kent, WA. just south of Seattle, on Sunday, April 13th. 

It?s a great event, hope you can make it down. 

Phil Marshall


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## ColsonTwinbar (Apr 1, 2008)

Sweet Thanks for the info. I'll try and make it to that show. I've always wanted to check one out.
So this is a frame I got a year ago, Ive seen these exact frames under the Colson name, so were they pretty much interchangeable during that period?


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## RMS37 (Apr 1, 2008)

You seem to be a Cleveland Welding Magnet? the frame you found a year ago is the 1936-37 version of the CWC Double Bar Roadster. It should be easy to note some of the differences between the two frames, the most obvious being the smaller space between the top tubes on the earlier frame.  In addition you can see that the earlier frame has fillet welds at all the upper frame junctures.  These early Double Bar Roadster frames display more handwork than the later frames built after the automated Master Weld process spread to these joints. 

An aside is that while CWC touted the Master Weld process, it was used less on the upper range frames which were built in smaller numbers making automated assembly unprofitable. This, and the fact that the detail cuts in the catalogs were not always annually updated, is why large fillets are depicted in the 1939 catalog.

Back to your frame?

The front sprocket dates your bike as a 1936 as it sports the smaller 1936 secondary paisleys. These cutouts were enlarged for 1937.  The front fork with the forged V-crown was used in 1936 and 1937.  I would expect (and be curious to know) the serial number to be a Z or an A followed by 5 numbers.  I believe the ?Z? frames are the earliest, followed by ?A? frames.  The ?B? frames I have seen are all 1937 models. 

Fenders for 1936 are crescent shaped with flat braces and are unique to CWC. In 1937 CWC went to gothic fenders.  Fully equipped the bike would have the early strait fixed leg 6-hole rack (produced through at least 1938) and could have had a delta Silver Ray headlight and battery tube, a pancake horn, and speedometer.

With respect to the question about frames being interchangeable, this is only true to the extent that some frames look very similar.  At first glance all Double Bar roadster frames look alike but each one is a unique product of the factory that built it.  While fenders and racks, and cranks (sometimes even tanks) will fit another manufacturers frames, the specifics of the frame and the manufacturing processes that produced it are very discernable. Usually on two similar frames it is the small details like the shape of the tubes used in the stays, the fender bridge or the dropouts that are the tells as to who produced the frame and what components are correct for a restoration to replicate ?original condition?.

Happy to have an excuse to rant on CWC, let me know if you need/want any more info on the Kent Swap.  We will also be doing a garage crawl through a couple of collections on Saturday, April 12.

Phil Marshall


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## ColsonTwinbar (Apr 1, 2008)

Thanks a ton for all the info, I hope to get them back to original sometime, when I have a more disposable income. I have a 8 bike collection and I've never paid over 30 bucks any of them. That old bike I turned into a little motorized thing, it can be seen in the general bike discussion under the "did anyone else see this" thread. Its serial number is Z14439. And I will hopefully be able to make it to the swap, too soon to really tell though. What is this about the collection thing, because I would go mostly just to check out bikes. I've seen a few hoarders with nice collections, theres a bike shop in Oak Harbor with some, but he wasn't interested in selling.


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