# New TOC Bike Emblem?



## Phattiremike (Feb 8, 2019)

I acquired this one a few months ago, it was delivered on Saturday to Concord.  It's badged "The Harvard" but @locomotion "Max" pointed out it appears to be a teens Emblem. Based on sprocket and hub.

This original bike has exceptionally clean and shiny paint, beautiful very fine pin strips on wooden rims, the plating is also in super fine condition!!  Bike was just dusted.   28" tires w/ the rear tire still holding air and a ND model A rear hub which spins freely and stops on a dime, front hub is a ND model M  This bike is so clean it must have been in a controlled environment forever...  The seat was there when I left but must have blown away at 75 mph on the highway I didn't realize it until I got home, son of a gun!  Down tube has a cool decal that says The Hub.  Check out the photos , if you have a seat or cover for it LMK.

Mike


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## gkeep (Feb 8, 2019)

Great bike! Sad about that seat. Somewhere this spring there will be baby birds hatching in a nest made out of ancient horse hair.


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## Craig Allen (Feb 8, 2019)

Manufactured by Washburne Cycle Co. They first started in 1892 but this bike is more likely late '90's.


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## abe lugo (Feb 8, 2019)

Beautiful bike! Sucks about the seat.  I recall a seat top similar to that one Ebay not to long ago. Maybe here in classifieds too.


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## locomotion (Feb 8, 2019)

Craig Allen said:


> Manufactured by Washburne Cycle Co. They first started in 1892 but this bike is more likely late '90's.




--- not likely ---
I would say teens Emblem
the badge seems replaced, badge holes are all messed up, and the bottom screw seems out of place!!!
the badge patina doesn't match the bike's patina ..... this is what first caught my eye.

if rear hub is original to the bike : page 1 - Oct 31, 2012 - post #1
more 1906 or later.
*"New Departure Model A - originally known as "1903 Model" 1902/03, "1904 Model" 1903/04, called Model A by 1906*"
source : https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/c...g-project-need-everyones-help-pre-1933.34160/

if the sprocket is original to the bike : page 2- May 25, 2013 - post #31
*"Miami, has been seen in a 1914ish Miami womans bike with wood wheels.  Has also been seen on an Emblem mens bike.  Also, there is a very similar version that is a bit smaller, without the four small holes and smaller teardrop holes positioned a bit farther from the outside that is on an Emblem womans bike.  Also been seen on a Mead, Cossagn 20's mens bicycle that was sold be Copak for the Pedaling History Museum. "*
source : https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/sprocket-compilation-pic-heavy.41683/page-2

if the bike is original to the bike : Emblem page 3 - Jun 30, 2013 - post #47
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/sprocket-compilation-pic-heavy.41683/page-3


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## 66TigerCat (Feb 9, 2019)

I love the hub decal on the seat tube. Oliver Wendell Holmes coined the term in 1858. He was referring to the State House in Boston as the hub of the solar system and then the hub of the universe. Boston has been known as the Hub ever since.


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## Phattiremike (Feb 9, 2019)

66TigerCat said:


> I love the hub decal on the seat tube. Oliver Wendell Holmes coined the term in 1858. He was referring to the State House in Boston as the hub of the solar system and then the hub of the universe. Boston has been known as the Hub ever since.




Thank you @66TigerCat very nice to learn the history of that decal!  I thought it was the bike shop decal...

Mike


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## Phattiremike (Feb 9, 2019)

locomotion said:


> --- not likely ---
> I would say teens Emblem
> the badge seems replaced, badge holes are all messed up, and the bottom screw seems out of place!!!
> the badge patina doesn't match the bike's patina ..... this is what first caught my eye.
> ...




Thank you Max, good eye to pick up the badge screws being messed up.  Now I need an Emblem badge.

Mike


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## locomotion (Feb 9, 2019)

Phattiremike said:


> Thank you Max, good eye to pick up the badge screws being messed up.  Now I need an Emblem badge.
> 
> Mike




More research on research for Emblem.

page 1 -Feb 19, 2018  - post #9
source : https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/emblem-manufacturing-info.125531/

seems that all Emblem badges on The Cabe have east-west badge holes, but most seem to be from the late teens, and twenties
can't find much info/pics on Emblems from 1906-1914
i am sure someone might come-up with info


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## DonChristie (Feb 9, 2019)

Nice score, Mike! That one caught my eye in the stash when I visited. The answer was nope, Mike got it! Good on you!


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## catfish (Feb 9, 2019)

Very nice.


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## fat tire trader (Feb 10, 2019)

locomotion said:


> --- not likely ---
> I would say teens Emblem
> the badge seems replaced, badge holes are all messed up, and the bottom screw seems out of place!!!
> the badge patina doesn't match the bike's patina ..... this is what first caught my eye.
> ...





  And a dog leg crank on a teens bike?


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## locomotion (Feb 10, 2019)

fat tire trader said:


> And a dog leg crank on a teens bike?




I really don't know when "dog leg" cranks appeared so I can't comment on that.


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## stezell (Feb 10, 2019)

Good looking bike Mike!
Sean


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## Phattiremike (Feb 11, 2019)

locomotion said:


> More research on research for Emblem.
> 
> page 1 -Feb 19, 2018  - post #9
> source : https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/emblem-manufacturing-info.125531/
> ...




Does anyone have early Emblem badge photos, in a link sent by Max there was reference to this sprocket being on an early Miami bike, photos of that badge would be helpful?  I pulled the badge off it had a touch of glue to hold in place, so it's confirmed the Harvard badge was added.  The badge outline looks perfect and no other holes were drilled the are 3" apart east - west.

Mike


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## locomotion (Feb 11, 2019)

Phattiremike said:


> Does anyone have early Emblem badge photos, in a link sent by Max there was reference to this sprocket being on an early Miami bike, photos of that badge would be helpful?  I pulled the badge off it had a touch of glue to hold in place, so it's confirmed the Harvard badge was added.  The badge outline looks perfect and no other holes were drilled the are 3" apart east - west.
> 
> Mike



So the bottom screw on the Harvard badge was not even screwed in?
Do you have a picture of the outline of the previous badge?
I have a few early Emblems, I will try to measure the holes tonight.


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## Phattiremike (Feb 11, 2019)

locomotion said:


> So the bottom screw on the Harvard badge was not even screwed in?
> Do you have a picture of the outline of the previous badge?
> I have a few early Emblems, I will try to measure the holes tonight.




The lower screw was screwed in Max but not tight, the rubber cement  had it better than the screw.  Looks like the same outline as the Harvard, I'll take it outside when I get home and look closely, an Emblem or a Miami badge should work based on the links you posted.  

Mike


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## locomotion (Feb 11, 2019)

Phattiremike said:


> The lower screw was screwed in Max but not tight, the rubber cement  had it better than the screw.  Looks like the same outline as the Harvard, I'll take it outside when I get home and look closely, an Emblem or a Miami badge should work based on the links you posted.
> 
> Mike




Mike. So you have 3 badge holes?
2 east/west (original holes)
and 1 south (extra for the lower screw on the Harvard)


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## Phattiremike (Feb 12, 2019)

NO just 2 holes about 3' apart east west. Here’s a picture of the outline, looks like a Columbia badge was on there or something similar. I’ll remove the glue later.


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## Jesse McCauley (Feb 19, 2019)

Interesting for sure! 
My only immediate insight comes from the fork crown, I believe I have seen Lovell Diamond built bicycles featuring the same fork? 
Can anyone confirm or deny that thought? 

I have seen a badge somewhere for a "Hub" bicycle, I like the Boston association with the term as explained above.


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## SKPC (Feb 19, 2019)

Emblem-early to late20's I think.  I have just acquired an Emblem motobike with Pierce-style dropouts that fits the 1918's-early 1930's era.    Diamond straight-leg crank similar to your dog-leg(dogged for the guard), same tapered headset cup, similar crown design on fork.  My frame sports two east-west badge holes 2" apart. Your badge holes appear to be Pierce-like on the diagonal, not 3-o'clock/9-o'clock, or "east west".....
      Your bike also sports ONE of the Emblem-used sprocket styles. The dropouts on your girls frame do not appear on teens or 20's Emblems that I have seen, but I could be wrong here.   Yours has both Pierce and Emblem characteristics.   It could even be an early Emblem before they took over Pierce in 1918, but I have not seen any pre-1918 Emblems with those style drop-outs.  These are some what I believe are Emblem Badges below.  I have seen MANY different Emblem badge styles, some are 3-d..


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## Phattiremike (Feb 19, 2019)

After removing the badge I took some close ups, see above pictures.  The outline of the badge matches the Harvard badge I found on the bike, no other outline visible?  Looks like someone attempted to remove the Harvard badge and muck up the upper screw hole and then glued it.  I got out the broken screw and reinstalled the Harvard badge after working it back into shape it looks way better.  I could use some period correct #2 screws (hint anyone) and leather for the seat cover.
I also cleaned up the bike and rims, added a lantern and a tire to the front that's holding air.

Thanks SKPC for the badge photos,2nd picture is similar to the Harvard but my screws are 3" apart.


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## cyclingday (Feb 20, 2019)

Nice bike and interesting discussion.

Just a helpful hint when transporting an old bike in an open vehicle.
Invest in shower caps guys.
They look stupid covering the seat of a classic old bicycle, but will save the top from getting wet or blowing off at 75 mph.
NEVER LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT!
The one I use has a fake cheetah pattern on it, so it looks especially tacky.
But, it's not as embarrassing as getting home and discovering that the 100+ year old saddle, didn't survive your 24 hours as caretaker.


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## SKPC (Feb 20, 2019)

Just a follow up on the aformentioned dropouts.   Dug around a bit and found that some pre-20's Emblems* do *have that style of rear axle dropout...


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Feb 20, 2019)

I have this saddle, that will fit your saddle chassis.


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## Phattiremike (Feb 20, 2019)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> I have this saddle, that will fit your saddle chassis.
> 
> View attachment 952165



Pm sent.


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## locomotion (Feb 20, 2019)

cyclingday said:


> Nice bike and interesting discussion.
> 
> Just a helpful hint when transporting an old bike in an open vehicle.
> Invest in shower caps guys.
> ...




I always bring a close trailer to carry bikes if they all don't fit in the bed of my pick-up.
But I still always remove the seat, pedals, grip (if it can be done), and turn the handlebars. Takes no time and saves a lot of problems!


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## Phattiremike (Feb 20, 2019)

cyclingday said:


> Nice bike and interesting discussion.
> 
> Just a helpful hint when transporting an old bike in an open vehicle.
> Invest in shower caps guys.
> ...



Thanks for that tip, I promise that will never happen again.


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## Balloontyre (Feb 22, 2019)

Dogleg cranks were around in late1890s already.


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## Wards Guy.. (Feb 22, 2019)

My capital made by Emblem bicycle has the same 2 half moon shapes.... screw holes are approximately 2 3/4” apart east to west. Don’t know if that helps..


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## Archie Sturmer (Feb 25, 2019)

SKPC said:


> These are some what I believe are Emblem Badges below



I believe that the Øverland badge might be Scandinavian, rather than Angolan, but they had ships didn't they.


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## SKPC (Feb 26, 2019)

Archie Sturmer said:


> I believe that the Øverland badge might be Scandinavian, rather than Angolan, but they had ships didn't they.



Yes, you are probably correct.  Badge holes are greater than 2" apart hole to hole.  Horizontal holed Emblems are 2" I believe.  After 1918, when Pierce was taken over by Emblem, were the Pierce-badged bikes that used traditional Pierce construction and pieces made at the Buffalo location or Angola?.  When was the Buffalo factory actually shut down and all the machinery and castings and raw materials moved to Angola?


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