# Restored 20 years ago Bluebird OC CL



## tripple3

Not mine:  https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/bik/d/dana-pointelgin-bluebird/6783102595.html
* 1937 1/2 Elgin Bluebird - $18000 (Dana Point)*
bicycle type: *cruiser* 
frame size: *62* 
make / manufacturer: *Sears Elgin* 
model name / number: *Bluebird* 
wheel size: *26 in* 
1937 1/2 Elgin Bluebird
I've owned for over 40 yrs. 
Yes, I have the peddle not shown. 
Light in horn not working but can be hooked up. Some minor body work, this paint is 35 yrs old
Serious only please
$18,000.


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## fordmike65




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## spoker

i think u can buy a mobile home for about the same price,a blue one of course!!


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## Jay81

I'm no Bluebird expert by any means, but the price seems at least 5 grand (or more) too high based on what we've seen sell here on the CABE and ebay in the past year.


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## 5760rj

Jay81 said:


> I'm no Bluebird expert by any means, but the price seems at least 5 grand (or more) too high based on what we've seen sell here on the CABE and ebay in the past year.



beautiful craftsmanship and style, real art, one of the first items on my list to buy after I win the powerball......wonderful color too.......


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## bobcycles

I would bet that was a Bailey restored saddle on the bike.  Although I think his craftsmanship
was outstanding... he used the 'veg tan" leather which is one of the oldest methods of
tanning leather.  Although I do like the looks of veg tan leather...which is typically soaked
so that it can be 'formed' to the contours of an object or seat pan, the inherent problems
with the process is the soaking.  The leather on bicycle seats at least has a tendency to
'rot' or decay from the inside out,  the side of the leather that comes in contact with the seat
padding etc.  I have seen a number of Jim Baileys saddles that have had the 'cracking from
within' occur.  bummer.  You are looking at  the result of the process when it goes south.  One thing
to keep in mind... there's really no way to avoid restoring a skirted saddle, like this Blue Bird one, going this route.
the side skirting needs to be formed using veg tan leather and soaking.  Thorough drying once covered is key to avoid the
potential for what you're seeing in the pix, but still no guarantee.  I wonder what the methods
used on the original saddles done at Troxel back in the day were. 
Looks like a nice bike...price is bonkers

any chance i can get ALLSTATE USA tires on this bike in lieu of the Chinese 10 dollar ones?


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## CWCMAN

Bailey seat and possibly a Kid Dean restoration ?

Nice bike but seems a bit high. Ya got to start somewhere I guess..........


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## rustjunkie

yes, the leather on that saddle is damaged.
However, from my experience, learning from and interaction with leather workers, reading books and articles on leather working in general and wet forming in particular, I do not believe the damage was caused by submerging or insufficient/incorrect drying.
Do your own research and make your own conclusion.


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## detroitbike

If it were my bike to sell I'd rather start high and negotiate down rather than 
   have it sell in 5 min because I priced it too cheap. Much harder to go up in price.
    We all want to get as much as possible for our stuff, At least I do!


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## spoker

$18000 is low for a fairly common bike?


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## morton

Maybe I just don't know enough about the high dollar bike market, but* "Light in horn not working but can be hooked up"? *

Gee, If I was trying to sell a bike for 18,000 large I would at least "hook up the light in horn".

Reminds me of the craigs list ads I see frequently like;  just needs air in the tires, or needs a $2 part to fix, easy fix, etc.


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## Balloonatic

For that price, I'd want to see an *original* fender ornament, the correct triple-step rims with the correct, plain ND hubs, the seat recovered, some vintage whitewalls, the correct pencil stand, original grips (or at least original grip rings) and confirmation that all the rare bits (buttons, headlight lens, eyebrow trim, horn, etc) are original and not reproductions. 

In its current configuration, my guess is it would struggle to sell for $9-11K if offered on ebay with no reserve and $9.99 opening bid. 

Good luck to the seller though, if this bike sells for $18K, I'm over the moon about the possible value of my bike!


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## prewarbikes4sale

The Bike is a Late 37 so the wheels hubs and kickstand are correct. Roller Speedometer also a 37. 
Mike


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## Balloonatic

prewarbikes4sale said:


> The Bike is a Late 37 so the wheels hubs and kickstand are correct. Roller Speedometer also a 37.
> Mike




This is why I LOVE the CABE! I learn so much.


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## 2jakes

Balloonatic said:


> For that price, I'd want to see an *original* fender ornament, the correct triple-step rims with the correct, plain ND hubs, the seat recovered, some vintage whitewalls, the correct pencil stand, original grips (or at least original grip rings) and confirmation that all the rare bits (buttons, headlight lens, eyebrow trim, horn, etc) are original and not reproductions.
> 
> In its current configuration, my guess is it would struggle to sell for $9-11K if offered on ebay with no reserve and $9.99 opening bid.
> 
> Good luck to the seller though, if this bike sells for $18K, I'm over the moon about the possible value of my bike!



I'm not sure that paint is 35 years old.


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## Balloonatic

detroitbike said:


> If it were my bike to sell I'd rather start high and negotiate down rather than
> have it sell in 5 min because I priced it too cheap. Much harder to go up in price.
> We all want to get as much as possible for our stuff, At least I do!




Definitely! Agreed 100%... but if it were _my bike;_, before putting a cat-ass high price on it like that I'm sure to offer the best for that money as I possibly can.... I'd get some proper whitewalls on there, even if they're postwar Allstates, fix that seat, and get horn/lights working, and make sure as many parts are orig./correct as possible... get it as pristine as possible, then hold my head up high and ask the moon, nothing to apologize for. To get top money, you need top product. Just sayin'.


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## 2jakes

*To get top money, you need top product*

This holds true in Baseball, Comics and other
hobbies.
The better condition the better results.
Here you have a valuable bicycle.
To offer such price in this condition
is not reasonsble.
Do as Balloonatic suggested.


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## Handyman

I could never (and still can't) understand all the hype behind these "Bluebirds"..............................Pete in Fitchburg


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## 2jakes

Like the Aerocycle only so many were made and just a few exist which make them rare and valuable.
I prefer Sears "Zepellin" which made the bluebird.


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## Balloonatic

Handyman said:


> I could never (and still can't) understand all the hype behind these "Bluebirds"..............................Pete in Fitchburg




There is no "hype" behind the Elgin Bluebird to understand... anymore than there is hype behind the popularity of the Porsche 356, or Ferrari 250 GTO, or any other desirable, valuable, vintage machine. When (some) people see the Elgin Bluebird, it elicits a visceral reaction... at least it does for me. It's so stunningly beautiful, so unusual, and so over the top in design, especially for the times in which it debuted, I simply wanted it the moment I first laid eyes on one. That same scenario has played out for countless collectors for years... that's not hype, my friend, that's instant devotion to a thing of beauty. This *thing* has ceased being an object of usefulness, and has become *art*.... art you can ride! Even if you don't appreciate the innovative, sultry art deco design of the Bluebird, it's chocked full of technical advances not seen on other bikes in 1935, or since. There are many reasons why the Bluebird is so coveted, sought after, and the #1 bike to get at the top of many collector's lists.... the least of which is hype. Not everyone understands or likes Picasso's paintings, but that's the nature of art, you don't have to understand it or like it -  just don't be confounded why so many others do.

The hype I don't understand is why people want to look at, or are interested in a single thing Kim Kardashian, or her family does. Now THAT is hype... no substance, no artistry, just pure hype.


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## Balloonatic

prewarbikes4sale said:


> The Bike is a Late 37 so the wheels hubs and kickstand are correct. Roller Speedometer also a 37.
> Mike




Looking at all the Sears Catalog pages for the Bluebird from 1935 to late 37 I'm not seeing that kickstand used at all, the catalog shows the "pencil" stand all the way through to 38 when they redesigned the bike. Same with the rims... they should be the Lobdell Emery "triple step" rims, not the ones on this BB for sale. According to the catalog, the cooling fin hubs are correct, but not the rims or stand.


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## prewarbikes4sale

I have and had complete originals that say otherwise. Witnessed at least 10 originals equipped that way. So I say poppycock on the literature.


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## Balloontyre

The Christmas Sale catalog, 1936.

Mike, Same ad from a few years ago that supported Red Robin sightings.

@prewarbikes4sale


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## fordmike65




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## Balloontyre

Lark

@Nickinator


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## fordmike65

Not to steer this thread away from the BB, but has anyone ever seen an original Lark?


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## Balloonatic

prewarbikes4sale said:


> I have and had complete originals that say otherwise. Witnessed at least 10 originals equipped that way. So I say poppycock on the literature.




It's fine to have your opinion based on your experience when discussing Elgin Bluebirds in general, but we're talking about THIS particular Bluebird, and it's lacking of correct parts, and it's condition. If you surveyed the 20 or so guys who actually own a complete 35-37 Bluebird, I'm fairly certain a majority of them would say those rims are wrong, and the bike should have the "pencil" stand to be correct. That stand was one of the earliest departures from the rear center stand; the side stand was an innovation on this bike, and was touted in all the ads. The bike collecting community at large only really has those catalog images and parts section to go by, many have never even seen a Bluebird in the flesh (or feathers I suppose), so saying definitely that the rims or stand on this bike are "correct" is really just your opinion.  

Personally, for $18K, I'd be looking for those rare parts on this bike... an original pencil stand with clip will set you back some $600, whereas you can pick up the stand that's on it for $20 at just about any bike meet, or in the for sale section here on the CABE... that's all I'm sayin'.


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## prewarbikes4sale

Well the 20 or so (more like 50 or 100) would be wrong. I have probably viewed more Bluebirds than anyone. Simple fact they came that way. 
The Bike in the Ad with the roller speedo and the rest of the parts (Wheels and Kickstand) is correct except for the Blackwalls.


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## prewarbikes4sale

I never said it was worth 18K


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## redline1968

One forgets that 20 or so bikes in the entire United States of America makes it pretty darn rare... for those who don’t understand what’s so special aren’t looking at the sculpture of this bike the uniqueness of the frame encorporated into a tank ...a innovation that has no comparison to any other since it’s conseption... once you ride one it’s smooth ride is amazing for its size...yes other rare bikes but none has more going for it than the bluebird in my opinion. I feel having one , the 18 k spent disappears as people notice the uniqueness of this bike a true investment..


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## Balloonatic

prewarbikes4sale said:


> Well the 20 or so (more like 50 or 100) would be wrong. I have probably viewed more Bluebirds than anyone. Simple fact they came that way.
> The Bike in the Ad with the roller speedo and the rest of the parts (Wheels and Kickstand) is correct except for the Blackwalls.




*Ah! I get it now.. you're either the seller of this bike, or Leon Dixon. (Just kidding ya here @prewarbikesforsale...)*

*It's NOT a "simple fact" at all that 35-37 Bluebirds came with the side stands like the one on this bike. In fact, you're not offering any facts at all here, only your conjecture and *_opinion_*. Unless you worked for Westfield assembling Bluebirds, or worked for Sears in their distribution center packing and shipping these bikes in 1935-1938,  or were the recipient of a brand new Bluebird from the catalog with this stand on it, it's simply your opinion, my friend. *

*The pencil stands have a pivot bolt holding them together, you can actually adjust the lean of the stand depending on how you mount it. The nut on them often comes loose, thus many probably fell off. They are also long and thin, and many probably bent or failed. It stands to reason many were likely replaced early on with the "kick up" stand shown in the accessories section of the catalog. This is likely why you have seen so many "original" bikes with that stand. It doesn't, **at all**, mean they came that way when new. I firmly believe no Bluebird left the Westfield factory, or Sears distribution center with that accessory stand, and I can back up my statement with virtually all catalog images of those year Bluebirds. And, in addition I'm sure other, very *knowledgeable* and **very** experienced collectors here will back me up. The "pencil" side stand was an advertised special feature of this bike along with the leaf spring saddle, on-board horn and light buttons, and built in headlight. What evidence do you have to back-up your *definitive* claim that Bluebirds actually came with the "kick-up" stand on the bike above? Evidence makes facts, not conjecture. Offering up you're opinion as fact with nothing to back it up?  THAT'S the real poppycock. Maybe yours are the "alternative facts" I hear so much about in the news? *

*I've seen probably 8 or 10 bluebirds with a long spring saddle, does that mean they came that way? 'Cause that's what you're saying about these kick stands. The same is true of the Shelby Speedline Airflo. Almost every one I have ever seen has the Wald Tomahawk stem on it. Using your logic, I could say that's how they came, but there's no evidence anywhere to back it up... virtually every ad or catalog image of that bike shows it with a standard/conventional handlebar stem. The photos of my Aerocycle when Tony Henkels got it 30+ years ago before restoring it show it with a cigar light on the front fender, and I've seen several original Aerocycles with a cigar light on the front fender... it doesn't at all mean they came that way from the factory.. not even a little bit. Faulty logic and reasoning are not fact.*

*There are enough blowhards pushing their opinion as fact these days... it's OK to say it's your *_opinion_, *but it's only that, not fact. *


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## Balloonatic

By the way; I have been collecting vintage bikes since 1978 and I have never seen, nor even heard of the Elgin Lark... therefore they do not exist. Sorry, just trying out @prewarbikesforsale's logic here.


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## prewarbikes4sale

Balloonatic said:


> *Ah! I get it now.. you're either the seller of this bike, or Leon Dixon. (Just kidding ya here @prewarbikesforsale...)*
> 
> *It's NOT a "simple fact" at all that 35-37 Bluebirds came with the side stands like the one on this bike. In fact, you're not offering any facts at all here, only your conjecture and *_opinion_*. Unless you worked for Westfield assembling Bluebirds, or worked for Sears in their distribution center packing and shipping these bikes in 1935-1938,  or were the recipient of a brand new Bluebird from the catalog with this stand on it, it's simply your opinion, my friend. *
> 
> *The pencil stands have a pivot bolt holding them together, you can actually adjust the lean of the stand depending on how you mount it. The nut on them often comes loose, thus many probably fell off. They are also long and thin, and many probably bent or failed. It stands to reason many were likely replaced early on with the "kick up" stand shown in the accessories section of the catalog. This is likely why you have seen so many "original" bikes with that stand. It doesn't, **at all**, mean they came that way when new. I firmly believe no Bluebird left the Westfield factory, or Sears distribution center with that accessory stand, and I can back up my statement with virtually all catalog images of those year Bluebirds. And, in addition I'm sure other, very *knowledgeable* and **very** experienced collectors here will back me up. The "pencil" side stand was an advertised special feature of this bike along with the leaf spring saddle, on-board horn and light buttons, and built in headlight. What evidence do you have to back-up your *definitive* claim that Bluebirds actually came with the "kick-up" stand on the bike above? Evidence makes facts, not conjecture. Offering up you're opinion as fact with nothing to back it up?  THAT'S the real poppycock. Maybe yours are the "alternative facts" I hear so much about in the news? *
> 
> *I've seen probably 8 or 10 bluebirds with a long spring saddle, does that mean they came that way? 'Cause that's what you're saying about these kick stands. The same is true of the Shelby Speedline Airflo. Almost every one I have ever seen has the Wald Tomahawk stem on it. Using your logic, I could say that's how they came, but there's no evidence anywhere to back it up... virtually every ad or catalog image of that bike shows it with a standard/conventional handlebar stem. The photos of my Aerocycle when Tony Henkels got it 30+ years ago before restoring it show it with a cigar light on the front fender, and I've seen several original Aerocycles with a cigar light on the front fender... it doesn't at all mean they came that way from the factory.. not even a little bit. Faulty logic and reasoning are not fact.*
> 
> *There are enough blowhards pushing their opinion as fact these days... it's OK to say it's your *_opinion_, *but it's only that, not fact. *



I’m waiting for the people to back you up.


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## WetDogGraphix




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## Robertriley

So....back to the Lark.  Have anyone seen one yet?


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## GiovanniLiCalsi

Kid Dean restored a Black Phantom for me, back in 1988. His chrome work sucked! He delivered it to a bike show and the chrome was flaking off the tank! I pointed it out to him and he got very pissed off! Guess he was having a bad day. Years later, the chrome on the rims started to flake and pit!! It also came with paint chips! It had  original, NOS parts and tires. It had every option, you could have ordered.
I like Jim Bailey’s work. My Phantom saddle was perfect and the leather looked new 24 years, later!


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## bikemonkey

What he said...

_It's so stunningly beautiful, so unusual, and so over the top in design, especially for the times in which it debuted, I simply wanted it the moment I first laid eyes on one..._


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## charnleybob

Robertriley said:


> So....back to the Lark.  Have anyone seen one yet?




Good question!
For a long time, nobody had ever seen an Elgin "Gull", yet they exist.
Elgin made a lot of bikes, and what was offered to you depended sometimes on where you lived in the country.
The old east of the Mississippi, west of the Mississippi production quandary.
Just when you think you've seen everything, something unusual pops up.


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## fordmike65

Robertriley said:


> So....back to the Lark.  Have anyone seen one yet?



Yes. Pics courtesy of @slick


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## Balloonatic

And, the EYES have it! Unicorn!


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## rustjunkie

photoshop


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## slick

Just because people say they haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That Lark is as real as can be. I thought it was just an artist's rendition, a concept if you will of what was being described to him to draw up for the catalog when I saw the sales ad, and then a 2 hour drive from me, showed me the light at the end of the tunnel. And of course I tried to buy it, with an offer that would blow most people's minds for a mens bike, let alone a womens bike, but, I would probably own the only one in existence, that we have seen so far...... for now though, she's just a priceless dream who resides not too far from home that I put a huge offer on that still stands if the owner decides to divorce her.


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## redline1968

I’ve seen one of them 30 yrs ago... while I was buying  a prewar men’s monarch from the neighbor.. the other neighbor brought it out asking 50 bucks....passed on it...ugly then ugly now ....no regrets. Probably around here somewhere..lol


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## bikewhorder

fordmike65 said:


> Yes. Pics courtesy of @slick
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Wow, If I hadn't seen the catalog page I would have assumed this was a pieced together Skylark.


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## BFGforme

This is same bike everyone is talking about on eBay! Everyone had there chance at$18000, guess you all blew it.... LMAO


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