# New Departure versus Bendix



## frankabr. (Aug 2, 2011)

I'm in my early 50's and pretty much grew up around bicycles.   Having two older brothers, they taught me alot about what they knew.   What they told me was that "Bendix makes the best coaster brakes."  Note, they didn't specifically mention other brands as being bad.    

As time went by, my own experience on bikes like a Schwinn Typhoon with a Bendix, bought at the flea market, verified what they said.  The coaster brake never failed. 

But Recently I got a hold of a 1952 Dial A Ride with an old New Departure coaster brake.   Going downhill, the brake and everything inside it went bad. (I ended up taking it apart and rebuilding it).   For riding purposes, I've replaced the rear wheel with a Bendix hub and have had no problems since  

I'd like to know what other people's experience has been.  Have they had problems with New Departure rear hubs and:o coaster brakes?  What about Sturmey Archer?

Lemme know.

Thanks,  Frank


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## jpromo (Aug 2, 2011)

I've never had a ND fail on me before but I don't think you can beat it for smoothness. If you got one that's well greased and oiled up, it's such a fantastic ride.

Bendix also ultimately borrowed the New Departure brake style for their redband kickback


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## slick (Aug 2, 2011)

As stated above, if the ND is rebuilt properly it will coast and stop like a dream. I have Bendix in 2 bikes and prefer the ND personally.


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## militarymonark (Aug 2, 2011)

i like new departure but I have had some issues with slipping and can't figure it out, i rebuild them the same way and just some have something wrong, I replace any known parts that have a little wear but seem to have some that like to slip. But then I'll have most that work flawlessly including on my whizzer.


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## PCHiggin (Aug 3, 2011)

*They're Both Fine....*

I've had both and still have 4 Red Band 2 speeds,2 RBs and and 3 RB2s.They all have worked and still work fine. The problem with either is crud build up after 40,50 or 60 years. They have to be taken apart and cleaned thoroughly then regreased and oiled.The brake disks are sometimes trashed because of the crud build up and they need replacing.That old grease makes them slip, the brakes won't work and the disks get chewed up by the abrasive crud or hard waxy greease. I also found that putting grease on the disks of a N/D or a Bendix Red Band is a bad idea. The service manuals for both specify putting oil on the brake disks. I serviced many of each and can't complain about either. My .02$.

Pat


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## tprjj49707 (Aug 27, 2011)

*New Departure D model R&R*

I have a pre war skip tooth D hub I just disassembled.  It has a remarkable dull gray finish under all the decades of dust.

Inside, there was black, hard grease AND schrapnel.  The non-sprocket end disc had battered ears.  I believe one of the round discs got
eaten.  Good to know oil not grease goes on discs.  Does anyone have an idea how many of each disc is in D hub?

More importantly, the order? I have, on the bad end, two eared discs side by side with no round one separating them...doesn't seem right.

Jerry


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## slick (Aug 27, 2011)

I want to say the number of discs is 18? I could be wrong because I don't count them. LOL!! The order I use is ears,washer, ears, washer. The key factor to rebuilding a ND D from what i've found is everything must be fully degreased. Regrease the bearings, 1-2 drops of oil on each disc, reassemble and it should lock the brakes for fun skids all day long! I just did a friend of mines 3 nights ago. It was stopping REALLY slow and when he left he was skidding down the street! Another satisfied customer!


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## tprjj49707 (Aug 27, 2011)

*Thanks*

Many, many thanks.

Lastly, is there an oil type recommendation?


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## slick (Aug 27, 2011)

I use your typical 10-30 car oil and it works fine for me? I'm sure someone will comment it's wrong but it works for me.


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## meteor (Aug 29, 2011)

My first and only hub rebuild was recently done, a ND D. Went well. No problems.  BTW I use Rubbing Alcohol to degrease, Any known drawbacks?  I just acquired a rim with a Bendix 18.  It was rough, obviously old grease, etc.  But, I have it disassembled, regreased, and I cannot get it back together in the hub.  Doesn't seem to all fit all of a sudden.  Is there a trick -- or is it just me?  Dru


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## PCHiggin (Aug 30, 2011)

meteor said:


> My first and only hub rebuild was recently done, a ND D. Went well. No problems.  BTW I use Rubbing Alcohol to degrease, Any known drawbacks?  I just acquired a rim with a Bendix 18.  It was rough, obviously old grease, etc.  But, I have it disassembled, regreased, and I cannot get it back together in the hub.  Doesn't seem to all fit all of a sudden.  Is there a trick -- or is it just me?  Dru



 You're probably trying to install everything from the wrong side of the hub.When you describe the hub as a bendix 18 are you referring to the teeth on the sprocket? 

Pat


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## meteor (Aug 30, 2011)

*Tandem?*

Thanks Pat. I'll take another look.  It didn't seem that way.  I don't have it in front of me but I think there are bearing cups on hub of differing size that allow for only 1 way to reinstall? But, yeah I did not make a good note of how I took it apart.  The brake arm has Bendix in big block letters and I think also the word Tandem (rusty).  Dru


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## Schweirdo (Aug 30, 2011)

*New Departure all day*

I rebuild New Departure model D hubs all the time. It is a preferred coaster of  mine. Every Bendix that I have has some little flaw to it. I had one RB2 go backwards 3 revolutions on me after being rebuilt. The number of brake discs  On New Departure is 19. I start with non-eared and end with non-eared. No problems to this date.


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## PCHiggin (Aug 30, 2011)

*Brake Arm*



meteor said:


> Thanks Pat. I'll take another look.  It didn't seem that way.  I don't have it in front of me but I think there are bearing cups on hub of differing size that allow for only 1 way to reinstall? But, yeah I did not make a good note of how I took it apart.  The brake arm has Bendix in big block letters and I think also the word Tandem (rusty).  Dru




Does the brake arm have an offset or bend in it? They made hubs specifically for tandems,the guts are the same but the arm was bent to fit a wider frame and the shells are drilled for larger spokes.You probably have an RB or RB2,both will have a red stripe in the middle. Take another look how you assembled everything,somethings probably in backwards or in the wrong order.Here's a link to some great info. on Bendix hubs,lots of exploded views. Scroll down 'till you find the right one. Good luck


http://www.trfindley.com/pgbndxhbs.html

Pat


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## chucksoldbikes (Aug 30, 2011)

*hello   here is my  2  cents*

when u take something    apart   take  it a piece at a  time  and lay  the parts  out on a tray  as u take them paart just as u took them off   put them back in  reverse it  works every time  for  me 
 chucksoldbikes


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## partsguy (Aug 30, 2011)

chucksoldbikes said:


> when u take something    apart   take  it a piece at a  time  and lay  the parts  out on a tray  as u take them paart just as u took them off   put them back in  reverse it  works every time  for  me
> chucksoldbikes




Very good advice. I do this as well. I was once told to use white grease or some kind of special oil, I forgot what it was. But I was told that automotive oil is not a good thing since it is made for much higher heat that what is produced from a bicycle.

I do need to check something on a Bendix I did about 2 years ago. The wheel has a bit more play in it than I would want although it works just fine. Thats me, I'm a perfectionist!

I have not ridden any ND bikes, but I have parted out a couple. Well-I take that back, I rode one through the garage. That one worked ok, but not great, the other one was a complete mess and needed completely rebuilt. I have a Sturmey-Archer single speed coaster on a Raleigh that I'm parting out. For a '74 model it works very nicely.


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## catfish (Feb 26, 2015)

You can't beat the New Departure model D hub. Easy to work on. Easy to get parts for. Easy to up grade to a two speed.


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## MrColumbia (Feb 27, 2015)

xxxx


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## rhenning (Feb 27, 2015)

Is there some reason other than being bored that this zombie thread was revived after 4 years????  Roger


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## catfish (Feb 27, 2015)

rhenning said:


> Is there some reason other than being bored that this zombie thread was revived after 4 years????  Roger




Good bike info never goes out of date.


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## buickmike (Jun 11, 2021)

Actually this topic has come up again  modern red band retro fitted to 36 cycleplane Excellent idea. I considered same thing while updating to triple drops on 36 flat tank. Original hub turned but clearly was pitted on brake arm side..I briefly considered lacing up the redband but it seemed to be larger OD. And the nd hubs off ebay seemed to replated worn hubs. I ended up using guts of og hub with rechromed hub I really dont see myselfoiling each disc individually.I want to test redband.hub  before install.what do I need to look for?


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## bloo (Jun 11, 2021)

IMHO there isn't anything to look for. You will need to overhaul it (clean it out and grease it, replace anything bad). Then lace it up and see how it works. Like almost all coaster brakes (except New Departure), the Bendix Red Band single speed coaster runs brake shoes against the inside of the hub, so eventually the bore in the hub will wear out, and then it's scrap. You might get a bad one. That's just how it is. If you do, buy another one, clean it out, grease it, and lace it up. Lacing up a wheel is not the big deal some people make it out to be. I don't think a Bendix red band coaster requires different spokes than a New Departure, but a triple-band 2 speed might.

The good news is those red band hubs were as popular in department store bikes as they were in anything else. Department store bikes have high production numbers but statistically don't get used much, so your chances of getting a good Bendix hub on the first try are in my opinion pretty good.

There's nothing magic about a red band by the way, except they are older and built at a time that just about everything was higher quality, so people seem to recommend them a lot. I don't think it was the most powerful coaster Bendix ever made. I wouldn't rule out other Bendix coasters just because there is no red stripe, They are all pretty close to the same, although some of the juvenile ones may have fewer shoes in them or something like that.

Me? I'll stick with New Departure.


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## Superman1984 (Jun 11, 2021)

Funny this came up because I was debating going back to a Bendix on the '64 Columbia Firebolt Rat Rod I have just because it Originally should have had 1 but also because I am Not Crazy about pouring oil into a tiny port or trying to assemble a New Departure on it's side & using 5w30 or 10w30 oil between greased parts. 

I have tore a ND D down, cleaned it, and lightly reassembled it but Never got around to oiling it for use. 

I was going to ask what's people's opinions on both from light braking to full on stomp skids because the ND D on my Columbia feels kinda soft with gentle braking but will skid if you hard stomp it. I try not to have to but tested it debating going to a single red band Bendix or RB2 both from Murray "Space" bikes. I kinda dislike the possible wear factor of the Bendix hub giving up the ghost but the disc from the New Departure are a pain in the ass due to age/1 breaks, and the oil factor 🤔


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## bloo (Jun 11, 2021)

Bendix locks easier. If you are going to do that thing kids used to do where you throw the back wheel out sideways and skid to a stop, Bendix does that better. It is a lot less controllable though, New Departure wins on control hands down. 

Whats the big deal about the oil? If you have one with an oiler, just squirt some in with an oil can now and then. If you don't have one with an oiler, get one with an oiler. 

The no oiler thing was from later when New Departure recommended grease. That was stupid. It drags horrible and doesn't stop well either. The one on my 41 is in a newer shell with no oiler and so back in the day I had to take it apart all the time. I was using Marvel Mystery Oil in it for low drag. It works great but doesn't stay in there long. Taking it apart all the time sounds like a pain in the ass, but there is such a goathead problem around here that the wheel was coming off for a tire patch more than once a week anyway back then, and so it was only a minor irritation. You can just back the cone off and squirt more oil in there. Still, most of them have the oil port so there's no good reason to fight with one that doesn't. 

I wore that bike completely out a couple of times back in the 70s-80s, and when I went through the hub a few months ago I used synthetic motor oil. It spins great and so far the oil seems to stay in there better. That hub has the same stack of discs in it that it did in the 70s, too and it still stops good.


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## Superman1984 (Jun 11, 2021)

bloo said:


> Bendix locks easier. If you are going to do that thing kids used to do where you throw the back wheel out sideways and skid to a stop, Bendix does that better. It is a lot less controllable though, New Departure wins on control hands down.
> 
> Whats the big deal about the oil? If you have one with an oiler, just squirt some in with an oil can now and then. If you don't have one with an oiler, get one with an oiler.
> 
> ...



That helps 👍🏻🍻


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