# Bluebird Technical Discussion 1935-1937



## Freqman1 (Apr 12, 2016)

The Elgin Bluebird is perhaps the most iconic prewar bicycle there is. Yet, it seems, there is a lot we don't know about these bikes. This thread is for technical discussions to try and get at some of the nuances of these bikes. So I'll start off first by re-hashing some of what we went over in other threads. Below are pics of the underneath of both my original BB and Extra Crispy (EC) (my project bird). Joe B. theorizes that the first bikes had these two welds. Additionally both of my bikes have straight (not dogleg) crank arms, the early seat post design (not reinforced-a fatty), and neither have alemite fittings in the bottom bracket. The serial number on my original paint bike is N126869 and EC is 128124 and both have "B10" stamped separately. Redline1968's bike has the alemite fittings, evidently no welds underneath tank, and is a darker blue. Serial is N153133 with "B11". Obviously a later bike but does this represent a change somewhere in '35 or is it a '36 model?

At some point I hope we can gather enough information and reach consensus in order to produce a monograph on these bikes. Anyone having a '35-37 ONLY please feel free to share as much as you have on these bikes. V/r Shawn


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## redline1968 (Apr 12, 2016)

It's not later it's the same 1935. I have no neck reinforcements and  here evidence of N in the numbers indicates 35.  This blue was reapplied by the owner who bought the bike originally. It's quite Possibly yours  were built by another employee who used this technique of brazing since they were hand built. Just in case Here are some pics I previously posted to help you in your quest.


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## Freqman1 (Apr 12, 2016)

I've asked the mods to delete the post. Three posts in and already someone is trying to sidetrack the discussion by adding no value. Let's keep this about the '35-7 Bluebird. If you want to discuss the merits of another brand, model, etc... Please feel free to start your own thread. V/r Shawn


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## mike j (Apr 12, 2016)

Please refer to last sentence.


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## Freqman1 (Apr 12, 2016)

redline1968 said:


> View attachment 304801 View attachment 304800 View attachment 304798 View attachment 304795 View attachment 304792 It's not later it's the same 1935. I have no neck reinforcements and  here evidence of N in the numbers indicates 35.  This blue was reapplied by the owner who bought the bike originally. It's quite Possibly yours  were built by another employee who used this technique of brazing since they were hand built. Just in case Here are some pics I previously posted to help you in your quest.




I doubt this was an employee doing his own thing as my bikes are 1255 bikes apart  by serial #. This looks to have been a standard thing for the early bikes as Chris' features these same two welds according to Joe B. I would like to know what the serial on Chris' bike is? V/r Shawn


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## redline1968 (Apr 12, 2016)

In keeping with the technical features of the bike I've done some measurements in areas including the spposed reinforcement above the tank seat tube. This is what I found upper seat tube is 1 1/16 and the lower tube below the tank is also 1 1/16 inches. The front lower is 1 1/8"  pics for references.  based on my measurements there is no change for the fatty tube change over.


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## rustjunkie (Apr 12, 2016)

The blobs are brass, not welds, no?...if you're concerned with technical accuracy...


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## Joe Buffardi (Apr 12, 2016)

Im ready to learn! Ill go take some pics right now of all 3 birds. This is gonna be a great thread! Right on!


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## Joe Buffardi (Apr 12, 2016)

Robertriley's 1935 Bluebird

Head tube protrusion passed the stamped sheet metal
N prefix serial number
Non re-inforced seat tube junction
Brazed points at bottom of monocoque tank
Remnants of French Blue
No alemite kit installed on BB


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## Joe Buffardi (Apr 12, 2016)

Nates BB hints of red and cream possibly 37

No head tube protrusion
No braze points under monocoque tank
Has seat tube re-inforcement
Has alemite kit
B - prefix at serial number
No remnants of French Blue


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## Joe Buffardi (Apr 12, 2016)

My BB which may be a late 36 or early 37

No braze points under tank
Re-inforced seat post
Alemite kit installed
No headtube protrusion
Signs of gunmetal remnants on the bottom bracket
A -  prefix at serial number


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## Nickinator (Apr 12, 2016)

From what i have visually seen on the birds is on the SN B10 B12 B11 are all very close in age as i have come to the thought that A is the first year of Westfield made elgins B is year 2 and the digits after the letter is the month it was made in. So I think all these bikes were made in late 35 and sold in 36 due to the months they were made.    Nick. 


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## redline1968 (Apr 12, 2016)

Are you inferencing that the 36 all had no reinforcements and that the brazing is the ultimate sign for a 35. I have to disagree from other people which I know are very knowledgable have pointed out the color and reinforcement changes were a 36's  the brazing serves no purpose other than a assembly technique.  I have no explanation on the fittings other than they were installed on the late 35's due to the changes.  The n code prefix is 35.  Whith the alpha numeric change indicates a company change and points to a time after 35 say 36. The B-10 11 12 prefixes are interesting. probably wrong but I feel the represents the month of manufacture since it was introduced 3 months of 35. I.e.  B-10 could represent October 1935 and so on.


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## oldfart36 (Apr 13, 2016)

Lurking and learning. Still on the hunt for my 1st Bluebird. Thanks guys, great thread. Keep it going.


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## Freqman1 (Apr 13, 2016)

I'm inclined to agree with Redline here. "N" indicates 1935, "A" 1936, and "B" 1937 according to Mr. Columbia's (Ken) site. This said it would appear that somewhere late '35 Westfield stopped the welds/brazing on the bottom of the tank and added the alemite fittings to the bottom bracket. Joe thinks his is a late '36 which the "B12", if indicating month, would confirm. I would like to see some bikes with lower "B" markings so we could get a feel if this is a month indicator or maybe model? V/r Shawn


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## Hobo Bill (Apr 13, 2016)

Hey tanks for the tread...i've got 35 i do believe  and the serial number is B98 ( this number is on top of this other number) N11857...


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## Freqman1 (Apr 13, 2016)

Hobo Bill said:


> Hey tanks for the tread...i've got 35 i do believe  and the serial number is B98 ( this number is on top of this other number) N11857...View attachment 304883 View attachment 304884 View attachment 304885 View attachment 304886



Thanks for posting. Can we see pic of bottom of  tank and serial #? V/r Shawn


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## Hobo Bill (Apr 13, 2016)

Shawn....the frame is in storage at this moment in time...i can snap a pix when it begins to be a little lighter out and i'm finishing some cartooning that needs to go out the bathroom window to- daze...


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## Joe Buffardi (Apr 13, 2016)

Oh and dont forget about the head tube protrusion past the sheetmetal.  This may be a first production style considering all the later models dont have this feature.


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## THE STIG (Apr 13, 2016)

sweet.....


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## Hobo Bill (Apr 13, 2016)

Freqman1 said:


> Thanks for posting. Can we see pic of bottom of  tank and serial #? V/r Shawn



Shawn...here's few pix of me 35 frame


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## Freqman1 (Apr 13, 2016)

Thanks Bill! Looks like serial is N118578 and "B9". This would be in line with the theory the "B#" is the month as your serial precedes both of my "B10"s. V/r Shawn


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## Joe Buffardi (Apr 13, 2016)

Almost time to compile some serial numbers!!


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## Freqman1 (Apr 13, 2016)

Joe Buffardi said:


> Almost time to compile some serial numbers!!



I just completed a list based on what has been posted so far! V/r Shawn


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## Joe Buffardi (Apr 13, 2016)

Right on!!


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## scrubbinrims (Apr 13, 2016)

I rub it's underbelly later.
1936 only alternate color.
Keep in mind, Sears produced models seasonally, not annual cutoffs. 
As labor intensive as these are, I wouldn't be surprised if the hulls were made in batch and mated to the frames with hot lead later to fulfill order/contracted volumes (4k allegedly through the run).
Chris


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## fordmike65 (Apr 13, 2016)

scrubbinrims said:


> I rub it's underbelly later.
> 1936 only alternate color.
> Keep in mind, Sears produced models seasonally, not annual cutoffs.
> As labor intensive as these are, I wouldn't be surprised if the hulls were made in batch and mated to the frames with hot lead later to fulfill order/contracted volumes (4k allegedly through the run).
> ...



Am I seeing 2 separate serial #'s stamped on your BB? '35 & '36?


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## catfish (Apr 13, 2016)




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## Freqman1 (Apr 13, 2016)

scrubbinrims said:


> I rub it's underbelly later.
> 1936 only alternate color.
> Keep in mind, Sears produced models seasonally, not annual cutoffs.
> As labor intensive as these are, I wouldn't be surprised if the hulls were made in batch and mated to the frames with hot lead later to fulfill order/contracted volumes (4k allegedly through the run).
> ...




Thanks for posting Chris. That is pretty crazy to have both year serials on there. Does you bike have the alemite BB fittings? V/r Shawn


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## THE STIG (Apr 13, 2016)

Freqman1 said:


> I'm inclined to agree with Redline here. "N" indicates 1935, "A" 1936, and "B" 1937 according to Mr. Columbia's (Ken) site. This said it would appear that somewhere late '35 Westfield stopped the welds/brazing on the bottom of the tank and added the alemite fittings to the bottom bracket. Joe thinks his is a late '36 which the "B12", if indicating month, would confirm. I would like to see some bikes with lower "B" markings so we could get a feel if this is a month indicator or maybe model? V/r Shawn





minez is  D10   C73"X"O6 (can't make out 3rd numb) no BB fitting, stepped seat post, early fenders, flush head tube, no brass gobs


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## Freqman1 (Apr 13, 2016)

Would also like to see differences in speedos


THE STIG said:


> minez is  D10   C73"X"O6 (can't make out 3rd numb) no BB fitting, stepped seat post, early fenders, flush head tube, no brass gobs




Thanks Tarry but that serial does not follow any convention for what we've seen so far. Wander if maybe a late '37? V/r Shawn


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## THE STIG (Apr 13, 2016)

Freqman1 said:


> that serial does not follow any convention for what we've seen so far.


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## PREWAR ELGIN (Apr 13, 2016)

I just finish mine need to finish front fender im going to add pictures of my serial #















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## PREWAR ELGIN (Apr 13, 2016)

This is my serial # D-2 B25890





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## redline1968 (Apr 13, 2016)

Wow.. Double numbers. That's cool....I'd bet it's a 35 reissued in early 36 with  the new red color for its major debut. Nice.


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## Metacortex (Apr 13, 2016)

Link to the patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US2199536A


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## Freqman1 (Apr 13, 2016)

THE STIG said:


>



It looks like they may have carried the 37 style into early '38? Thoughts? V/r Shawn


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## cyclingday (Apr 13, 2016)

From what I can tell, I think mine is a 37 model for sure. Opalescent Blue paint, Alemite fittings, etc.
The only thing my bike has that is in the grey area between years, is that it had the dial speedometer instead of the roller type that was more typical of a 37 model.
So it may be an early 37.
I'll get some pictures of the serial number as soon as I can, and post them here.

P.S. If that patent drawing doesn't get your juices flowing, then you're in the wrong hobby.

Also, interesting to note, that a B.C. Jiffy stand is shown in the patent drawing.


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## scrubbinrims (Apr 13, 2016)

I find it interesting my bike has a couple of serial numbers, N131944 - 1935 and A191798 - 1936
I've always thought it was built in 1935 and released in 1936 with the new color, still do.
I wasn't expecting to see later N serial numbers without the A stamping or earlier A stamped bluebirds without the B stamping.  Goes to show not everything goes in sequence...
Technically, my bike is a 1936, but SN's that year went from A5429 to A266083 according to Mr. Columbia's records, but that's quite some time sitting around between build and release.
Yes, mine has the 2 brass spots underside and alemite fittings in the crank hanger (also in the hubs).
Chris


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## dfa242 (Apr 14, 2016)

That is one beautiful bird right there.

View attachment 304952


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## bikeyard (Apr 14, 2016)

I'm starting to think this is not all that rare of a bike


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## bricycle (Apr 14, 2016)

I dig this thread!


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## rustjunkie (Apr 14, 2016)

saddle with streamline trim to match the fender and headlight


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## catfish (Apr 14, 2016)

Not rare. Just expensive.


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## Freqman1 (Apr 14, 2016)

bikeyard said:


> I'm starting to think this is not all that rare of a bike



Compared to some of the Colsons e.g. early Imperials/Commanders, a Huffman Super Streamline, or a '37/8 Roadmaster Supreme they are downright plentiful. What they are is extremely _desirable_ which makes them expensive. V/r Shawn


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## THE STIG (Apr 14, 2016)

Freqman1 said:


> It looks like they may have carried the 37 style into early '38? Thoughts? V/r Shawn




my 38' wannabe Bluebird is a C


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## Velocipedist Co. (Apr 27, 2016)

My wannabe is also a C.  1938


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## duffcam (Jun 8, 2016)

Ijust found this thread, very interesting, stuff.  I have a 35 Bluebird, s/n N94281- A106716almost finished, retired now, got some time to spend to finish

Duff Campbell


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## duffcam (Jun 8, 2016)

correction on s/n  N94231  A106716 & got seat springs & hardware, on the hunt for saddle & pan


Duff


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## Freqman1 (Jun 8, 2016)

duffcam said:


> Ijust found this thread, very interesting, stuff.  I have a 35 Bluebird, s/n N94281- A106716almost finished, retired now, got some time to spend to finish
> 
> Duff Campbell
> 
> ...





That's interesting. This is the second bike in this thread with both the '35 & '36 serial numbers. It looks like there were left over '35 frames and they just re-stamped them for '36. The only thing I can think of was this was an accountability measure. Thanks for posting. Now if we could just get the guy in Maine to post up his number! V/r Shawn


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## duffcam (Jun 8, 2016)

Freqman1 said:


> That's interesting. This is the second bike in this thread with both the '35 & '36 serial numbers. It looks like there were left over '35 frames and they just re-stamped them for '36. The only thing I can think of was this was an accountability measure. Thanks for posting. Now if we could just get the guy in Maine to post up his number! V/r Shawn



Thanks, appreciate all the info I also have a 38 Bluebird it's as I found it no work done yet, may well sell.  see pics

Duff Campbell


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## Freqman1 (Jun 8, 2016)

duffcam said:


> Thanks, appreciate all the info I also have a 38 Bluebird it's as I found it no work done yet, may well sell.  see pics
> 
> Duff Campbell
> 
> ...





Well that should start some convos! The '38 is a different bird altogether which is why I didn't include it in this thread. V/r Shawn


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## duffcam (Jun 9, 2016)

Freqman1 said:


> Well that should start some convos! The '38 is a different bird altogether which is why I didn't include it in this thread. V/r Shawn





Freqman1 said:


> Well that should start some convos! The '38 is a different bird altogether which is why I didn't include it in this thread. V/r Shawn



Seems I heard once "birds of a feather should stick together", but it does make good sense to respect sticking to a thread

Duff


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## brwstrmgmt (Jun 9, 2016)

Here is another serial number, a daily rider!


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## Freqman1 (Jun 9, 2016)

brwstrmgmt said:


> Here is another serial number, a daily rider!
> 
> View attachment 326437




Is that a '37? Pics of the whole bike? V/r Shawn


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## brwstrmgmt (Jun 9, 2016)




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## Freqman1 (Jun 9, 2016)

Interesting to see a '38 serial number on a '37 model. From that it would seem they sold these into the '38 model year. Oh yea and that is one sweet bike! V/r Shawn


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## fordmike65 (Jun 27, 2016)

*Bluebird Technical Discussion 1935-1937*


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## Freqman1 (Jun 27, 2016)

When I said "sweet" I was referring to brwstrmgmt's '37 with a '38 serial. This thread is only for '35-37 Bluebirds. Please post for sale/Ebay/CL ads in the appropriate places. V/r Shawn


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## RUDY CONTRATTI (Jun 27, 2016)

THIS THREAD IS FOR HIGH FALUTING,,SCOOTING,SHOOTING GUYS AND GALS THAT HAVE THOSE DEEP POCKETS..SO LIL KNEE SCUFFERS,TRAINING WHEELS AND LIKE MYSELF SHOULD JUST READ,LEARN AND WEEP..AND ALWAYS REMEMBER ,,ITS GOTTA BE CORRECT ...OR YOU WILL HEAR FROM THOSE THAT KNOW ..GOOD LUCK .... RAGTIME COWBOY JOE


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## Freqman1 (Jun 27, 2016)

My intent for the thread was to inform and educate. There are a lot of bikes I will never own but that doesn't mean I don't want to learn about them. Unfortunately many of these threads become cluttered with stuff that does not contribute to the body of knowledge. Let's try to keep this one on track so that it can serve as a reference for those that want to study and learn about these beautiful bikes. V/r Shawn


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## Freqman1 (Jun 28, 2016)

My latest acquisition is another 1935. This one is restored. It does have the 'blob' welds underneath the tank and no alemite fittings. The serial # is N127493. V/r Shawn


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## Velocipedist Co. (Jul 20, 2016)

A216574


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## Robertriley (Jul 22, 2016)

Here's the one owner bird from the Detroit area.  B16093, Grey, it does not have the 'blob' welds underneath the tank but does have the alemite fittings.


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## Robertriley (Jul 26, 2016)

I just noticed that I haven't seen many original dark gray early Bluebirds.  If I'm not mistaken, it was a one year only color in 1937.  Do you guys have any insight on this?


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## Freqman1 (Jul 26, 2016)

Correct one year only. There is a member here who has an outstanding original example in that color. I have seen at least one other pretty nice one as well and have a friend with a Strucel restored gray bird that is gorgeous. V/r Shawn


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## Freqman1 (Jul 26, 2016)

I'll post some photos up tonight of the tank door on my original bird. The question was brought up by Cliff M. whether maybe there aren't two styles of doors on these. My original bird has a recess where the knob sits. My restored bird has a repo door but there is no recess. Does anyone have an original door that is just flat under the knob? It seem virtually every restored bike I've seen does not have the recess. I suspect this is because they are all repos. Because the door was not attached via a hinge or any other means it seems many of the original doors are lost to time. Thoughts? V/r Shawn


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## JAF/CO (Jul 26, 2016)

In regards to the door
I believe the nob is back from the edge more on the 35 models


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## Freqman1 (Jul 26, 2016)

Ok here is the tank door on my original 1935 bike. Notice the recess the knob sits in and the locating tabs underneath. I'd be interested to see other original doors especially from other years to see if they changed it up. V/r Shawn


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

hello everyone! I'm going to scour this page but i want to ask you bluebird buffs, do any of your early bluebirds (pre '38) have markings on it indicating made in USA? Im working on getting one through customs and the two ways to prove it was made here and to avoid paying duties, i need to show a marking on the bike saying made in USA, or have a legal document from the manufacturer. Im working on contacting sears and trying to get ahold of archives. but if these bikes have a stamp, some pictures of the whole bike and a stamp, to compare mine too, would be worth a shot to me! thanks in advance i will appreciate any and all help i get.

@Robertriley 
@Joe Buffardi 
@Freqman1 
@bikewhorder 
@npence


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

im a BB Newbie, how do you ID years? I don't have a catalog of my own yet.

These are the pics I got. Im super excited. Im just working so hard to get this thing here with as few problems with customs as possible. can anyone help me id year pretty please. I don't have a serial number handy.


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## Robertriley (Aug 17, 2016)

azbug-i said:


> hello everyone! I'm going to scour this page but i want to ask you bluebird buffs, do any of your early bluebirds (pre '38) have markings on it indicating made in USA? Im working on getting one through customs and the two ways to prove it was made here and to avoid paying duties, i need to show a marking on the bike saying made in USA, or have a legal document from the manufacturer. Im working on contacting sears and trying to get ahold of archives. but if these bikes have a stamp, some pictures of the whole bike and a stamp, to compare mine too, would be worth a shot to me! thanks in advance i will appreciate any and all help i get.
> 
> @Robertriley
> @Joe Buffardi
> ...


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

@Robertriley can you send me a pic of your whole bike too pretty please


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## Robertriley (Aug 17, 2016)

Hmmmmmm....maybe.  You can take your pick from my album?


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## Robertriley (Aug 17, 2016)

http://thecabe.com/forum/media/albums/1937-elgin-bluebird.1605/


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

Thanks chris 

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## cyclingday (Aug 17, 2016)

Does that Bluebird come with a block of Swiss Cheese?


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## Robertriley (Aug 17, 2016)

cyclingday said:


> Does that Bluebird come with a block of Swiss Cheese?



Lol....I'm not sure if she knows the story.


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

I dont

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## Freqman1 (Aug 18, 2016)

The U.S. Patent decal is the only thing that says U.S. on these bikes and it doesn't look like the one you are getting from Marc has that decal. The bike should have a '37 serial number (start with a "B") since its painted gray. V/r Shawn


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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

I agree shawn i dont think its going to have the decal on marcs/mine. Thanks for the year. I still havent heard from him. I hope that he hasnt preemptively put it on a boat or im in trouble 

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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 18, 2016)

Amanda, congrats! I have had stuff shipped to the Netherlands, cars and motorcycles. I have used California Shipping They ship to Rotterdam Netherlands. If you call them they may be able to find you another business to get your bike to California from Switzerland.  Its a slow boat but its worth it. California shipping  is in Stanton Ca. 714-590-1999.


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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

Thanks for the tip joe!! Marc and i seemed to have gotten a solid plan together but ill call them if we get stuck

Thanks im super excited!

I feel like Wayne and garth, im not worthy!

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## azbug-i (Dec 26, 2016)

My restored 37 bb seems to have lost its badge during shipping. Can anyone pt me to one i can buy? Im looking too!!

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## azbug-i (Dec 26, 2016)

false alarm 
sorry everyone


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## Velocipedist Co. (Nov 12, 2017)

1937 og color.  1937 "B" serial number.  But also a 1935 "N" serial number? And a "B11" any thoughts?


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## Freqman1 (Nov 13, 2017)

Velocipedist Co. said:


> View attachment 708341
> 1937 og color.  1937 "B" serial number.  But also a 1935 "N" serial number? And a "B11" any thoughts?



Steve look at post 26--Chris' red BB. It, too, has a dual set of numbers. Pure conjecture on my part but it certainly looks like Westfield used some leftover frames and re-stamped them. I think the "B11" may represent Bluebird and month as you see this on all three years. I haven't seen a number higher than 12 yet. V/r Shawn


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## tesch (Dec 4, 2017)

Wheel question on 35 bluebirds vs. later years. Did only the 35 have triple step wheels and the later years have the more basic wheel. Thx Andy


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## cyclingday (Dec 4, 2017)

tesch said:


> Wheel question on 35 bluebirds vs. later years. Did only the 35 have triple step wheels and the later years have the more basic wheel. Thx Andy



I think so, but by no means definitive.
The rim profile for the 36&37 model Elgin Bluebird, used the same Type that was used on the Schwinn Aerocycle.


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## Velocipedist Co. (Dec 5, 2017)

tesch said:


> Wheel question on 35 bluebirds vs. later years. Did only the 35 have triple step wheels and the later years have the more basic wheel. Thx Andy




I’ve been trying to wrap my head around the same question.  Here are few original bluebirds with the earlier triple-step profile...
The red ones I think are ‘36 and the blue is maybe a ‘37?


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## Mercian (Dec 7, 2017)

Velocipedist Co. said:


> View attachment 708341
> 1937 og color.  1937 "B" serial number.  But also a 1935 "N" serial number? And a "B11" any thoughts?




Hi, 

Below is a link to some work I did on dating Westfield made bicycles. Post 11 is the most useful here:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-frame-numbers-1933-1945.100743/

B11 is a BB code for a frame made in  November 1935

N162009 is a frame number from very late in 1935.

For some reason, several N 1935 'Bluebirds', were renumberd with later frame numbers (those in brackets in my table), normally A for 1936. These may have been 'spare' frames that never left the factory, or unsold dealer samples, returned and refurbished to the new year colour etc. This seems to have been a unique 'Bluebird' thing, I've not seen it on any other Westfields.

B22978 is the first from 1937 that I've seen this happen to.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## old hotrod (Jan 3, 2018)

And mike wolfes...https://www.facebook.com/AmericanPickerMikeWolfe/posts/2033591046667940:0

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## Rollo (Jan 3, 2018)

old hotrod said:


> And mike wolfes...https://www.facebook.com/AmericanPickerMikeWolfe/posts/2033591046667940:0
> 
> ... So .. what is this contraption hanging in the Picker's Nashville store? ...


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## then8j (Nov 4, 2018)

Thank you for documenting this Adrian.
















Mercian said:


> Dear All,
> 
> Please find below Version 1 of a listing of known serial numbers and details of around 200 Westfields built between 1933 and 1945.
> 
> ...


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## catfish (Nov 4, 2018)

Great info !!! Thanks for sharing !


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## then8j (Sep 15, 2019)

Great info


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## Whizzerpro (May 16, 2020)

Here is my bluebird project.  I need help trying to identify my bird serial number.  I see "A26761" but maybe i'm wrong.


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## Mercian (May 16, 2020)

Hi, @Whizzerpro

Wow, that's pretty chewed up!

We agree that the first letter is an A, and the first two numbers are 267

So, we know that A is 1936, and the last number issued in 1936 was A266083, therefore your number can't be a late 1936 number with six digits, since 267xxx would be higher than 266083. So it must be an early 1936 number with five digits,  A267xx.

A45510 is the nearest 1936 five digit Bluebird frame I have recorded to yours, Post 11 in the link below. The last photo is of the serial number, which is useful for comparison.









						Bluebird Technical Discussion 1935-1937 | Classic Balloon Tire Bicycles 1933-1965
					

The Elgin Bluebird is perhaps the most iconic prewar bicycle there is. Yet, it seems, there is a lot we don't know about these bikes. This thread is for technical discussions to try and get at some of the nuances of these bikes. So I'll start off first by re-hashing some of what we went over in...




					thecabe.com
				




To me, your fourth digit could be a 5 or 6. I personally think it's a 5, but you may be able to see better since you have the bike. The last number we agree is a 1.

The other thing the photo tells us is that Bluebirds had their frame manufacture date codes in an unusual place at this time, upside down, and to the lower right of the serial number. Comparing positions, we can see yours, which looks (to me) like B11, which would be in a reasonable sequence for Axxxxx.

So, my best guess is:

B11, frame made November 1935. A26751, frame built up very early 1936.

But maybe I'm wrong also (-:

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Freqman1 (May 16, 2020)

The bike is a '36 model as evidenced by the serial as well as the thicker seat tube (second design) frame. V/r Shawn

1935 seat tube




1936-7 seat tube


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## Whizzerpro (May 16, 2020)

Mercian said:


> Hi, @Whizzerpro
> 
> Wow, that's pretty chewed up!
> 
> ...



Hi Adrian.  Thank you for your information about this frame.  It's interesting and helpful.  I agree with you about the serial number A26751 but the other number looks to me like an upside down 10, with the zero over the top of the 5.  Maybe i'm wrong.


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## Whizzerpro (May 16, 2020)

Freqman1 said:


> The bike is a '36 model as evidenced by the serial as well as the thicker seat tube (second design) frame. V/r Shawn
> 
> 1935 seat tube
> View attachment 1195224
> ...



Hi Shawn.  I agree with you.  Thanks.


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## Whizzerpro (May 16, 2020)

Whizzerpro said:


> Here is my bluebird project.  I need help trying to identify my bird serial number.  I see "A26761" but maybe i'm wrong.
> 
> View attachment 1195155
> 
> View attachment 1195156



Here are more pictures


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## Whizzerpro (Jun 7, 2020)

Freqman1 said:


> The bike is a '36 model as evidenced by the serial as well as the thicker seat tube (second design) frame. V/r Shawn
> 
> 1935 seat tube
> View attachment 1195224
> ...



Thank you for the details.


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## Whizzerpro (Jun 7, 2020)

Freqman1 said:


> Ok here is the tank door on my original 1935 bike. Notice the recess the knob sits in and the locating tabs underneath. I'd be interested to see other original doors especially from other years to see if they changed it up. V/r Shawn
> 
> Hi Shawn.  I have this door but it’s missing the knob. I think this door is similar as yours.  My bluebird is a 1936 but I don’t know if this door is correct for the bicycle.  Is not going to be easy to find a knob like yours.
> 
> Regards,  Rudy


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## Velocipedist Co. (Jul 28, 2020)

N14099 0
B10
No spots under top tube
Narrow seat mast
No grease fittings on bottom bracket


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## Jesse McCauley (Aug 17, 2020)

I think this saddle warrants an entry here in the Bluebird Technical files - 
Discovered in a defunct TN hardware store. 
The outer edge leather stitching was likely done in conjunction with the recovered nose area possibly at the very same hardware store.


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## bikebozo (Aug 17, 2020)

Very nice ,


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## Dave Stromberger (Apr 26, 2021)

Adding to this informative thread, with more info.. and even more to come.  There's LOTS more that can be discussed here.. let's see what unique stuff you can share about Bluebirds!

Here's a "bent" New Departure Model D brake arm. Bent to clear the speedo basket on a '35.


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## Dave Stromberger (Apr 26, 2021)

Serial number for this one.... N136443  and B10.  Also notice a number 2, on its side superimposed on top of the 3 and 6.


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## Dave Stromberger (Apr 27, 2021)

Dave Stromberger said:


> Adding to this informative thread, with more info.. and even more to come.  There's LOTS more that can be discussed here.. let's see what unique stuff you can share about Bluebirds!
> 
> Here's a "bent" New Departure Model D brake arm. Bent to clear the speedo basket on a '35.



Has anyone else seen a brake arm bent to clear on a Bluebird? I am unsure if this is a factory thing, of if it's actually just bent! The reason for my confusion is that I vaguely recall having seen one like this before, but if I put a normal brake arm on the hub with the basket attached, it just BARELY clears... it would work.


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## Robertriley (Apr 27, 2021)

Dave Stromberger said:


> Has anyone else seen a brake arm bent to clear on a Bluebird? I am unsure if this is a factory thing, of if it's actually just bent! The reason for my confusion is that I vaguely recall having seen one like this before, but if I put a normal brake arm on the hub with the basket attached, it just BARELY clears... it would work.



I've seen one before but thought someone bent it up.


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