# Iver Johnson...damaged frame help!



## gwad1970 (Feb 26, 2014)

Hey Fellas, I bought the bike knowing there was an amateur repair done to the frame. There are crude mig welds behind the crank tube and near the seat post bolt. Someone welded all 4 bars then ground the welds down (very poorly) They also "eased" the inner tubes in with a hammer to accept ballon tires UUUHH. I was doing a bit of exploratory prodding and broke one of the welds. It would have never held up had I ridden the bike. I have disassembled the bike to get the parts off to the nickel plater. I suppose my question is...What would you do? 1) I can mig the frame back myself and grind it down using much more care that the previous owner. Just to get it on the road. 2) find someone to tig the break leaving the unsightly bent tubes.  3) Find someone that can cut the entire rear half of the bike off re-use the drop outs and fab it all up again$$$. I really want to save this bike I love it like a first born child lol. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I also attached some photos of the parts I intend to nickel plate I have set the parts out in an (Exploded view) the way they were removed. Whoever had it before me added some parts. I know one of head tube cups and bearing are wrong. If any one has one I'm your man! There is also a weird washer in the crank assembly that isn't jiving. Could some one just peek over the parts and give me an idea whats missing or wrong. I hope the experts are around on this one I would really love to get this one going again! Thanks Mike.


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## Iverider (Feb 26, 2014)

I don't see the tabbed washer that goes between the bottom bracket adjusting cone and lock nut. 

Are your headset cups the same inside diameter? If someone's hammered a larger sized cup in you will have to do some shrinking to get the original style to fit.

That weird looking stem is NOT Iver equipment. You should pack it up immediately and send it to me.

As far as the welds near the top go, here's a photo of the forged part that connects the seat stays to the seat tube





I don't know what your skill level is, but I suppose MIG welding would work if you're comfortable with doing so. You could take it to an experienced frame builder and have 

them put new stays in via brazing. The rear dropouts insert into the seat and chainstays like plugs. Media blast or strip the areas you need to repair and go a little further 

beyond to see where joints occur. You'll probably be able to see a little sliver of brazing at the joints.


Good luck!


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## HIGGINSFOREVER (Feb 26, 2014)

The first thing is you want it right.If you feel you can handle it from start to finish go for it.I cant see it costing more then $200. if you have someone just do what you dont feel comfortable with doing.Good luck


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## gwad1970 (Feb 26, 2014)

It only took me a year to find that weird stem! You should see the other one I got with it! Its amazing! not adjustable but has a long throw and is lugged very ornate. I found them both in the United Kingdom. I'll check on the cups tomorrow I know its a long shot but do you have any  idea who may have one lying around? I have an extremely nice 20's girls Iver with good paint and graphix. I just don't want to start cannibalizing good bikes. Besides I told the wife that ones hers..(Dumb why did I do that!) The problem I think I'm going to have replacing the back half of the bike is the taper in the tubes. I doubt I'll ever find the material.My welding skills arent too bad I just finished building a 72 vw (Lots of welding!) and 51 chevy truck I use it to haul around my bikes. Thanks for the imagery I was wondering how the frame was assembled. Now I understand the tabs. Thanks Krautwaggen


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## gwad1970 (Feb 26, 2014)

Thanks Gene If I cant find a professional I'll do it myself. I just want to do right by the bike and have something to be proud of.







HIGGINSFOREVER said:


> The first thing is you want it right.If you feel you can handle it from start to finish go for it.I cant see it costing more then $200. if you have someone just do what you dont feel comfortable with doing.Good luck


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## Iverider (Feb 26, 2014)

I have a ladies frame carcass that might have a good cup on it. I'll try to get it apart by the end of the week. The stem is rusted tight in the fork.

I'm not sure which cup you need. Top or bottom? They are slightly different. The bottom cup is a little taller. Let me know!


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## gwad1970 (Feb 26, 2014)

OK! i'll get a measurement of the one I have and fire it your way!







Krautwaggen said:


> I have a ladies frame carcass that might have a good cup on it. I'll try to get it apart by the end of the week. The stem is rusted tight in the fork.
> 
> I'm not sure which cup you need. Top or bottom? They are slightly different. The bottom cup is a little taller. Let me know!


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## fat tire trader (Feb 26, 2014)

Its hard to see the extent of the damage to your frame in your pictures. Start by removing all of the paint and get the damaged areas really clean. Then show us better pictures. A joint that was originally brazed should be repaired by brazing. You can braze over a weld, but you can't weld over brass. Maybe the dents in your tubes can be repaired, there are different methods. I would not spend any time or money restoring any part of the bike until the frame is done.


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## fordsnake (Feb 26, 2014)

Yeah, what Chris (fat tire trader) said, "you can't weld over braze". Here's a repair that was done a while ago.


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## fordsnake (Feb 26, 2014)

If the bottom of your stem has this stamping...its a Accles & Pollock quill out of Birmingham, England made for Major Taylor who once rode and endorsed IJ bicycles.


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## gwad1970 (Feb 27, 2014)

It does have that stamp. I tried to get it in a photo but it was proving difficult. I'll blast the frame and post some pictures of the frame. The damage in my opinion is quite extensive. as far as the rest of the parts my good friend is a chrome plater  Yessss! and weather I build this particular frame or not I will need the parts for future projects. I've got the bug pretty bad. Does having that stamp make that stem any more or less desirable?







fordsnake said:


> If the bottom of your stem has this stamping...its a Accles & Pollock quill out of Birmingham, England made for Major Taylor who once rode and endorsed IJ bicycles.


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## Handyman (Feb 27, 2014)

*Iver Frame Repair/Replace*

Hi gwad1970,

This is going to be one awsome bike when you get it back together.  I just love those handlebars!! Have you ever thought of replacing the frame, it may be easier and cost less than repairing the old one??  There may be Cabe members that have a bare Iver frame of the same vintage that they would part with. What is the serial # of the bike?  Pete in Fitchburg


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## Larmo63 (Feb 27, 2014)

Are you chrome plating or nickel plating? It seems as if these parts should be nickeled.

Don't chrome, nickel plate.


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## Iverider (Feb 27, 2014)

His first post says "Nickel Plater" 

So I'm guessing that's his plan already!

From what I've read in the Iver catalogs 1928/1929/1930 (seems to be the same catalog for all three years with pricing tipped in) still mentions Nickel. The 1932 pamphlet references "Chromium Plating"

I don't have the catalogs in between but maybe Ivrjhnsn can illuminate the year in which Nickel plating ended!

Replacement frame would be a last ditch effort, but an option nonetheless. A good frame builder could essentiall back-half the bike and likely reuse the dropouts. the stays would probably have to be fillet brazed if the interior fishmouths have been compromised from the earlier welding job.


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## fordsnake (Feb 27, 2014)

Taylor on an IJ with his bars


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## Iverider (Feb 27, 2014)

Very cool Mr. C!


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## gwad1970 (Feb 27, 2014)

Yes the plan is Nickel. Cant wait for that step..the instant gratification. I live in Cincinnati anyone know of a builder in Ohio? I have been told the bike is a 1920-1921 according to the #s. I'm pretty sure the fish-mouths have been compromised due to the fact the old welds are less than 1/2" from the end of the tube. I would love to know what happened what could have caused such damage?
So I'm guessing that's his plan already!


Krautwaggen said:


> His first post says "Nickel Plater"
> From what I've read in the Iver catalogs 1928/1929/1930 (seems to be the same catalog for all three years with pricing tipped in) still mentions Nickel. The 1932 pamphlet references "Chromium Plating"
> 
> I don't have the catalogs in between but maybe Ivrjhnsn can illuminate the year in which Nickel plating ended!
> ...


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