# Bottom bracket noise.



## ian (Jul 4, 2022)

I replaced the BB bearings with new #66's.
Fresh grease, cleaned the cups. It makes almost constant noise pedaling uphill under load. Anybody have any tips?
'36 Rollfast.


----------



## rustjunkie (Jul 4, 2022)

sounds like chain & cog relationship troubles


----------



## J-wagon (Jul 4, 2022)

Maybe BB assembly is loose. Check crankarms for lateral play, tighten adjusting cone as needed, not overtight.


----------



## ian (Jul 4, 2022)

rustjunkie said:


> sounds like chain & cog relationship troubles



I was wondering about that. 96 year old chain could be a little tired.


----------



## ian (Jul 4, 2022)

J-wagon said:


> Maybe BB assembly is loose. Check crankarms for lateral play, tighten adjusting cone as needed, not overtight.



I cleaned and greased and replaced the BB bearings, but I should take a closer look at the cups.


----------



## Freqman1 (Jul 4, 2022)

ian said:


> I cleaned and greased and replaced the BB bearings, but I should take a closer look at the cups.



I'm with Scott--check chain. With a BB problem you usually 'feel' it more than a chain unless you have stiff links. V/r Shawn


----------



## 1817cent (Jul 4, 2022)

I also had that issue with a Morrow hub that had too much play in it.  After adjusting, the cog lined up with the sprocket better and the noise disappeared.


----------



## ian (Jul 4, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> I'm with Scott--check chain. With a BB problem you usually 'feel' it more than a chain unless you have stiff links. V/r Shawn



The chain seems pretty limber and smooth. Maybe it's stretched and too far gone. It seems like I can feel some friction or drag, and it's definitely noticeable and loud.


----------



## ian (Jul 4, 2022)

1817cent said:


> I also had that issue with a Morrow hub that had too much play in it.  After adjusting, the cog lined up with the sprocket better and the noise disappeared.



There is a bit of side to side play, maybe less than an eighth or so. I'll investigate more.  Thanks Jay.


----------



## rustjunkie (Jul 4, 2022)

can you post a side-shot pic the cog?
has the chain or rear wheel/cog been changed?







						Bicycle Chain and Sprocket Engagement and Wear
					

Maintenance of bicycle chains.



					www.sheldonbrown.com


----------



## ian (Jul 4, 2022)

Rear rim/hub/chainring changed out. Same chain it came with.


----------



## ian (Jul 4, 2022)

Could the cog be worn/stretched?
Sharktoothed?


----------



## Freqman1 (Jul 4, 2022)

ian said:


> Could the cog be worn/stretched?
> Sharktoothed?



Doesn't look sharktoothed to me.


----------



## Archie Sturmer (Jul 4, 2022)

Did you swap out the 26-tooth CWC chain ring front sprocket with a 24-tooth Murray sprocket? https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/what-bike-did-you-ride-today.61973/page-2424#post-1447152
Sprocket looks shiny in the center, like the side that might have been next to the bearing cone; (i.e., flipped inside-out?).


----------



## Jeff54 (Jul 4, 2022)

Ouch ooo, yikes~ while probably unrelated, get U some lock, biting washers on the axel nuts! Those drop-outs can be a real pain and worse without proper washers. 😉


----------



## rustjunkie (Jul 4, 2022)

ian said:


> Could the cog be worn/stretched?
> Sharktoothed?



can’t see the teeth, can’t  say
bet it’s that the chain and cog aren’t getting along and are complaining when they’re under load and forced to mesh.
chain and cog wear together, change one or the other and trouble often results


----------



## ian (Jul 4, 2022)

I'm thinking that could be the problem, or part of it. I'm gonna try Plan "B" and see if I can make it work. 
Thanks for the help. 
Ian


----------



## SKPC (Jul 4, 2022)

Ian, since nobody but you has heard this noise, what kind of "loud noise" is it?  Where does it seem to be emitted from?  The drivetrain in particular?  If it is a "creaking" noise it is most likely ungreased metal to metal like on pedal threads, pressed in cups. stem/steer tube, seat related or missing washers or adjustment screws.😎   Worst scenario is a cracked crank arm or frame ready to let go.  Have you "felt" for the noise while riding yet?  Creaks, pops and squeaks eminating with each pedal stroke can be located by feel/touch through vibrations they send through the frame.  While "just riding along" reach down with your fingers and find where the vibration is strongest.  You can also get a can of WD40 and start blasting suspected areas until it disappears.....just not all at once works best.


----------



## ian (Jul 4, 2022)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Did you swap out the 26-tooth CWC chain ring front sprocket with a 24-tooth Murray sprocket? https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/what-bike-did-you-ride-today.61973/page-2424#post-1447152
> Sprocket looks shiny in the center, like the side that might have been next to the bearing cone; (i.e., flipped inside-out?).



Yeppers.  I traded the chainring that came on it for a ladies one from a Higgins from the parts stash. I also traded the 15 tooth ND that came with it for a 20 tooth ND. I saw the shiny part you mentioned,  but the other side looked the same. I'm gonna hang it up for the foreseeable future and ride what I have. Thanks for the help.
Ian


----------



## ian (Jul 4, 2022)

SKPC said:


> Ian, since nobody but you has heard this noise, what kind of "loud noise" is it?  Where does it seem to be emitted from?  The drivetrain in particular?  If it is a "creaking" noise it is most likely ungreased metal to metal like on pedal threads, pressed in cups. stem/steer tube, seat related or missing washers or adjustment screws.😎   Worst scenario is a cracked crank arm or frame ready to let go.  Have you "felt" for the noise while riding yet?
> Squeaks can be located by feel/touch through vibrations sent through the frame.  'Do this while riding...You can also get a can of WD40 and start blasting everything until it disappears while never locating where it was..



It's a serious (to me ) creaking noise when I pedal uphill. I replaced the crankarms, bearings, races and all the washers etc. It's definitely not a squeak 😀. I tried making sure the races were clean and not pitted or galled. New #66 bearings. Fresh grease. I'll be back in the BB later on this Summer. Another project for sure. Thanks for the reply. 
Ian


----------



## ian (Jul 4, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> Doesn't look sharktoothed to me.



I didn't think so either, but I thought I'd ask anyway. There are untold amounts of experience on here that I refer to often, and someone on here prolly has an answer. 
Thanks for the help. 
Ian


----------



## ian (Jul 4, 2022)

Jeff54 said:


> Ouch ooo, yikes~ while probably unrelated, get U some lock, biting washers on the axel nuts! Those drop-outs can be a real pain and worse without proper washers. 😉



The dropouts are spread a bit, and when I use washers, the chain gets too tight. The washers contact where the axle adjusters are and pushes the axle/rim back. Does this make sense ?


----------



## Archie Sturmer (Jul 4, 2022)

Sometimes, I use 5/16” *USS* standard flat washers (versus SAE), that have a reduced OD (compared to 3/8”), and usually fit 3/8” axles.


----------



## lordscool (Jul 4, 2022)

Sounds more like the pedals making the noise have seen that before.


----------



## Jeff54 (Jul 5, 2022)

ian said:


> The dropouts are spread a bit, and when I use washers, the chain gets too tight. The washers contact where the axle adjusters are and pushes the axle/rim back. Does this make sense ?



When I was a kid, just big enough to ride a 26" bike with wood blocks on the pedals, my dad brought 3 bikes home from the junk yard or something -junk bikes. 2 were probably CWC and 1 was a Schwinn. I learned then and why I favored the Schwinn. On the CWC drop-outs, they were thinner and softer steel. ya gotta set the axel adjusters just right and without a thick and hard washer; As you squeeze it tight the nut can bend in the washer, spread the drop-out and push the axel out of adjustment.  I can't remember if I ever solved that where it didn't need constant adjusting.  Yet cheap 50-60's Murry and huffy with forward drop outs would spread easy too. Had to hammer them back which caused the metal to become weaker.  Schwinn lock washers are harder and thick so, usually will not become depressed and spread the drop-out again. They can bite the steel and help. As I have not played with this problem in many, many years , others may know a better solution but for me these worked:

.


----------



## ian (Jul 5, 2022)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Sometimes, I use 5/16” *USS* standard flat washers (versus SAE), that have a reduced OD (compared to 3/8”), and usually fit 3/8” axles.



I'll try that. Off to the hardware store. Again!!


----------



## ian (Jul 5, 2022)

Jeff54 said:


> When I was a kid, just big enough to ride a 26" bike with wood blocks on the pedals, my dad brought 3 bikes home from the junk yard or something -junk bikes. 2 were probably CWC and 1 was a Schwinn. I learned then and why I favored the Schwinn. On the CWC drop-outs, they were thinner and softer steel. ya gotta set the axel adjusters just right and without a thick and hard washer; As you squeeze it tight the nut can bend in the washer, spread the drop-out and push the axel out of adjustment.  I can't remember if I ever solved that where it didn't need constant adjusting.  Yet cheap 50-60's Murry and huffy with forward drop outs would spread easy too. Had to hammer them back which caused the metal to become weaker.  Schwinn lock washers are harder and thick so, usually will not become depressed and spread the drop-out again. They can bite the steel and help. As I have not played with this problem in many, many years , others may know a better solution but for me these worked:
> 
> .View attachment 1657307



I have a pair of these in my stash. And yes, the dropouts have spread a bit, enough so the cone nuts fit inside. Heat and a big hammer is next!


----------



## ian (Jul 5, 2022)

lordscool said:


> Sounds more like the pedals making the noise have seen that before.



 The pedals seem to spin freely without any noise, but I may trade them out and try that too. Good thing I have a big stash pile 😀


----------



## lordscool (Jul 5, 2022)

ian said:


> The pedals seem to spin freely without any noise, but I may trade them out and try that too. Good thing I have a big stash pile 😀



Change it to a 175mm 3 pc crankset with sealed bearings, nice conversion kits pretty reasonable. Way better, smoother and quieter than old ball bearings. you will be way happier. You can always put it back if you sell it. Also is you sprocket tight to the crank? That will also make bad creaking noises.


----------



## lordscool (Jul 5, 2022)

ian said:


> The pedals seem to spin freely without any noise, but I may trade them out and try that too. Good thing I have a big stash pile 😀



If it was the chain you would have had the issue before.


----------



## ian (Jul 5, 2022)

lordscool said:


> If it was the chain you would have had the issue before.



I just picked this ride up. No history with it at all. I do love a challenge though. 😀


----------



## Freqman1 (Jul 5, 2022)

Personally I wouldn’t convert the bottom bracket. Not worth the expense and detracts from the originality of the bike. A lot of us ride these bikes many miles with original components without problems. Unless this is your only bike and you plan on riding a thousand or more miles a year the original type components will work fine and please don’t put a crap repo seat on it. V/r Shawn


----------



## lordscool (Jul 5, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> Personally I wouldn’t convert the bottom bracket. Not worth the expense and detracts from the originality of the bike. A lot of us ride these bikes many miles with original components without problems. Unless this is your only bike and you plan on riding a thousand or more miles a year the original type components will work fine and please don’t put a crap repo seat on it. V/r Shawn



Whats your point about the seat. He didn't say anything about seat?


----------



## ian (Jul 5, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> Personally I wouldn’t convert the bottom bracket. Not worth the expense and detracts from the originality of the bike. A lot of us ride these bikes many miles with original components without problems. Unless this is your only bike and you plan on riding a thousand or more miles a year the original type components will work fine and please don’t put a crap repo seat on it. V/r Shawn



I plan to do as little as possible to this bike. I like the OG feel of them, and even though it's not my only one, I think it's worth getting back on the road. Not sure about a seat yet. 
Ian


----------



## ian (Jul 5, 2022)

lordscool said:


> Whats your point about the seat. He didn't say anything about seat?



No worries.  I'm gonna leave the seat alone. I did remove a mattress seat when I got it,  and put a bare metal longspring that I had on one of my Colsons.


----------



## Freqman1 (Jul 5, 2022)

lordscool said:


> Whats your point about the seat. He didn't say anything about seat?



I just hate to see vintage bikes with dorked up seats


----------



## Rivnut (Jul 8, 2022)

Check to see that the BB cups are seated properly.  I didn’t get one seated properly once and the retainer w/ ball bearings wouldn’t spin without a bind.


----------



## ian (Jul 9, 2022)

Rivnut said:


> Check to see that the BB cups are seated properly.  I didn’t get one seated properly once and the retainer w/ ball bearings wouldn’t spin without a bind.



Gonna check that for sure. I'm thinking the noise is coming from the rear cog and plan to change out the rim and hub/tire. I'll look at the cups and crankset too.
Thanks for the tip.


----------



## lordscool (Jul 9, 2022)

How long since the rear bearings have been serviced and adjusted?


----------



## ian (Jul 9, 2022)

lordscool said:


> How long since the rear bearings have been serviced and adjusted?



Not sure.  Gonna give it a look see....


----------



## lordscool (Jul 9, 2022)

Might be less hassle to just tear it all apart and check everything over, oil the chain and will probably fix the problem or you'll find it.


----------



## borgward (Jul 9, 2022)

ian said:


> I replaced the BB bearings with new #66's.
> Fresh grease, cleaned the cups. It makes almost constant noise pedaling uphill under load. Anybody have any tips?
> '36 Rollfast.



I thought I had same problem w/my late 80's Schwinn World Sport. Checked it out. Smooth action. Turned out it was the pedal bearings making the noise.


----------



## 62typhoon (Jul 12, 2022)

lordscool said:


> Sounds more like the pedals making the noise have seen that before.



YES,I had a squeak that I could not find...it was the peddle bearings...only under torque, try taking your foot off each peddle while peddling with only one foot and see if it goes away, that's how I found my squeak. I thought for sure the sound was coming from he bottom bearings. Also as mentioned the chain...I just replaced my mountain bike chain, bike guy measured with a gauge and he said it should be replaced at 90, mine was 190!..bike is 3 years old but ride everyday, even in winter.


----------



## ian (Jul 12, 2022)

62typhoon said:


> YES,I had a squeak that I could not find...it was the peddle bearings...only under torque, try taking your foot off each peddle while peddling with only one foot and see if it goes away, that's how I found my squeak. I thought for sure the sound was coming from he bottom bearings. Also as mentioned the chain...I just replaced my mountain bike chain, bike guy measured with a gauge and he said it should be replaced at 90, mine was 190!..bike is 3 years old but ride everyday, even in winter.



I'll try that! Thanks for the tip.


----------



## ian (Jul 12, 2022)

62typhoon said:


> YES,I had a squeak that I could not find...it was the peddle bearings...only under torque, try taking your foot off each peddle while peddling with only one foot and see if it goes away, that's how I found my squeak. I thought for sure the sound was coming from he bottom bearings. Also as mentioned the chain...I just replaced my mountain bike chain, bike guy measured with a gauge and he said it should be replaced at 90, mine was 190!..bike is 3 years old but ride everyday, even in winter.



I tried new pedals, but no success. I'm still thinking it's the BB. I replaced the rear rim and cog/brake assembly. Now it could be a stretched chain I guess.


----------



## rustjunkie (Jul 12, 2022)

ian said:


> I tried new pedals, but no success. I'm still thinking it's the BB. I replaced the rear rim and cog/brake assembly. Now it could be a stretched chain I guess.


----------



## SKPC (Jul 12, 2022)

Not so sure a bad chain and ring interface will "creak" as Ian claims, especially if slobbered with oil.  Worn chains "grind"& "groan" & "snap", not "creak".   Did you do the "touch" test yet to more closely locate the noise?    If not, why not?   Metal Interface NOT chain related I would bet on it.  Did you do the WD40/PBb test yet? If not why not?  C'mon may, it cannot be this hard!(twss)🤣


----------



## ian (Jul 12, 2022)

SKPC said:


> Not so sure a bad chain and ring interface will "creak" as Ian claims, especially if slobbered with oil.  Worn chains "grind"& "groan" & "snap", not "creak".   Did you do the "touch" test yet to more closely locate the noise?    If not, why not?   Metal Interface NOT chain related I would bet on it.  Did you do the WD40/PBb test yet? If not why not?  C'mon may, it cannot be this hard!(twss)🤣



Haha! I haven't even gotten close to any of my rides in a while. I'm gonna hit the BB and any questionable areas with WD and see what transpires. This particular one may just turn into a late summer/early fall project.


----------



## lordscool (Jul 12, 2022)

Just take out the bearings maybe one is not seated maybe wrong size that should be first place to check


----------



## GTs58 (Jul 12, 2022)

ian said:


> Haha! I haven't even gotten close to any of my rides in a while. I'm gonna hit the BB and any questionable areas with WD and see what transpires. This particular one may just turn into a late summer/early fall project.




Never ever squirt WD-40 on greased or oiled moving parts unless you're cleaning them.


----------



## ian (Jul 13, 2022)

lordscool said:


> Just take out the bearings maybe one is not seated maybe wrong size that should be first place to check



I replaced both bearings with new/unused #66 units.


----------



## berniebike (Jul 13, 2022)

ian said:


> I replaced the BB bearings with new #66's.
> Fresh grease, cleaned the cups. It makes almost constant noise pedaling uphill under load. Anybody have any tips?
> '36 Rollfast.



make sure the bearing race against the sprocket is tight.that can cause some hidden noise.


----------



## rustjunkie (Jul 13, 2022)

let’s put this one to bed 😂
pop the chain off and measure it, while it’s off take a pic of the cog,  from your earlier pic it sure looks like the teeth are done


----------



## 1817cent (Jul 13, 2022)

This is a very interesting thread and probably has garnered more ideas and tips than Ian ever wanted.  Just reading through this i learned alot and will use that knowledge to keep my riders in tip top shape.  Thanks Cabers!


----------



## GTs58 (Jul 13, 2022)

rustjunkie said:


> View attachment 1661589
> 
> let’s put this one to bed 😂
> pop the chain off and measure it, while it’s off take a pic of the cog,  from your earlier pic it sure looks like the teeth are done



But the top of the teeth look excellent!  🤣


----------



## SKPC (Jul 13, 2022)

The saga continues for Ian, who must be loving all the attention. 🤣


GTs58 said:


> Never ever squirt WD-40 on greased or oiled moving parts unless you're cleaning them.



"NEVER"?  He is trying to locate the noise @GTs58 , never would I encourage using these solvents as a lube.  It *is* though. in my experience the absolute simplest way to find "squeaks and pops".  Start with the seat. Still there?  Wipe the lube completely off and move to the next area of the bike. How about around the headtube areas. Cup/frame interface....stem/bar, bar cross-brace if present.  Still squeaking? Next the axle to frame contact points front and back. (MUST have washers) Still making noise?  Move on to the next suspect one by one till you find it. EVERYTHING on a bike flexes as you ride it so it could be anywhere.  We will have a huge party for you when you, or if you ever find it.


----------



## ian (Jul 13, 2022)

berniebike said:


> make sure the bearing race against the sprocket is tight.that can cause some hidden noise.



Will do. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## ian (Jul 13, 2022)

rustjunkie said:


> View attachment 1661589
> 
> let’s put this one to bed 😂
> pop the chain off and measure it, while it’s off take a pic of the cog,  from your earlier pic it sure looks like the teeth are done



I will, as soon as I can. Thanks,
Ian


----------



## ian (Jul 13, 2022)

SKPC said:


> The saga continues for Ian, who must be loving all the attention. 🤣
> 
> "NEVER"?  He is trying to locate the noise @GTs58 , never would I encourage using these solvents as a lube.  It *is* though. in my experience the absolute simplest way to find "squeaks and pops".  Start with the seat. Still there?  Wipe the lube completely off and move to the next area of the bike. How about around the headtube areas. Cup/frame interface....stem/bar, bar cross-brace if present.  Still squeaking? Next the axle to frame contact points front and back. (MUST have washers) Still making noise?  Move on to the next suspect one by one till you find it. EVERYTHING on a bike flexes as you ride it so it could be anywhere.  We will have a huge party for you when you, or if you ever find it.



I'll have to get an industrial size vessel of WD-40 😀.


----------



## ian (Jul 13, 2022)

Thanks to all the Cabers that came to assist me in my conundrum. Still gonna go after the squeak, pop, groan, click, or whatever noise comes up. Let's allow this post to sail into the sunset  🌇. 
Ian


----------



## ian (Jul 13, 2022)

rustjunkie said:


> View attachment 1661589
> 
> let’s put this one to bed 😂
> pop the chain off and measure it, while it’s off take a pic of the cog,  from your earlier pic it sure looks like the teeth are done


----------



## ian (Jul 13, 2022)

This is the 15 tooth cog that came with the ride. The chain as well. I replaced the chainring with a ladies one from  a Higgins.


----------



## rustjunkie (Jul 13, 2022)




----------



## ian (Jul 13, 2022)

??


----------



## ian (Jul 13, 2022)

Another rim/cog that was placed on the ride with the same noisy outcome.


----------



## rustjunkie (Jul 13, 2022)

so....lets see pics of the other cog too???

how many links is the chain?
chains need to be measured hanging or pulled tight.

Did you read the sheldon brown chain wear link?






						Bicycle Chain and Sprocket Engagement and Wear
					

Maintenance of bicycle chains.



					www.sheldonbrown.com
				




chains and cogs wear together, dollars to donuts the chain that was on that little cog with the warn out teeth is worn out too


----------



## ian (Jul 13, 2022)

ian said:


> Another rim/cog that was placed on the ride with the same noisy outcome.


----------



## rustjunkie (Jul 13, 2022)

that one's a goner too


----------



## ian (Jul 13, 2022)

rustjunkie said:


> that one's a goner too



Dang. They don't make 'em like they used to......


----------



## J-wagon (Jul 13, 2022)

If this were multispeed, I'd be more concerned worn cogs and chains affect shifting, as for me less issue on singlespoeds, can ride till cogs teeth are nubs, adjust tension as necessary


----------



## rustjunkie (Jul 13, 2022)

J-wagon said:


> If this were multispeed, I'd be more concerned worn cogs and chains affect shifting, as for me less issue on singlespoeds, can ride till cogs teeth are nubs, adjust tension as necessary




uuuhhhhh, nope...the problem @ian started this thread about proves that


----------



## Jeff54 (Jul 13, 2022)

Has anybody checked the bearing cups in bottom bracket? They or at least one can wobble and work the BB wider and so, wobbling or loose cups not good eh.


----------



## GTs58 (Jul 13, 2022)

J-wagon said:


> If this were multispeed, I'd be more concerned worn cogs and chains affect shifting, as for me less issue on singlespoeds, can ride till cogs teeth are nubs, adjust tension as necessary




Do they sound like a tank going over concrete?


----------



## ian (Jul 13, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> Do they sound like a tank going over concrete?



Not quite. More like ball bearings grinding againt the cups.


----------



## ian (Jul 13, 2022)

Okay Cabers. Enough already. Thanks for all the tips and suggestions. I think I'll drop this for now and ride my Colsons. Or Shelby.


----------



## lordscool (Jul 13, 2022)

ian said:


> I replaced both bearings with new/unused #66 units.



The bearings can still be in at an angle behind sprocket. Its not hard to remove the crank and double check. Like 5 minutes.


----------



## rustjunkie (Jul 13, 2022)




----------



## ian (Jul 13, 2022)

rustjunkie said:


> View attachment 1661968



🤙


----------



## J-wagon (Jul 13, 2022)

See 9 days ago post #3


----------



## ian (Jul 24, 2022)

So, I  discovered the noise problem. Chain was stretched,  cog was worn. I changed out the cog and driver, chainring and chain for 1/2 pitch parts. No more noise.
Thanks Cabers for all the tips and suggestions.


----------



## rustjunkie (Jul 24, 2022)

ian said:


> So, I  discovered the noise problem. Chain was stretched,  cog was worn. I changed out the cog and driver, chainring and chain for 1/2 pitch parts. No more noise.
> Thanks Cabers for all the tips and suggestions.









😂


----------

