# Noted differences in Mercury Pacemaker Run '39-'41



## fordmike65 (Sep 23, 2014)

When I first picked up my Pacemaker project, I was told that the chainring was incorrect. I believed this to be true since just about every one had a chainring with only 2 rows of slots. I also noticed that it looked like my bike also had the incorrect fenders. Now I'm getting a lil ticked cuz I figured I only needed to get a few lil bits like the headset & crank nuts and I'd be good to go & get it repainted/chromed. I thought I'd better do as much research as I can before starting the resto, cuz the worst thing is spending $1,000's of dollars on a full out resto just to find out you did it WRONG! I've been compiling pics of several Pacemakers, both of what look to be original & of obviously restored bikes. I've found that more than a few of these bikes indeed have the 3 row chainrings. Both restored & what seem to be untouched OG bikes. Maybe my chainring is correct after all??? Then I started to notice the fenders. Some of these same 3 row bikes have what seem to be Twin Bar style "pinched" fenders! Wait...could my bike have had the correct fenders after all?? Well, I still have more research to do, which is good cuz I don't have the $$$ to restore my bike yet anyway. If anyone would like to add any info,findings or even better pics to either confirm what I _think_ may be going on here or prove my hunch wrong & put me on the right track, I would be forever grateful! Thanks so much guys. Guess I'll share my findings now.

Three rows of slots on what I believe are OG paint bikes:


















Restored or at least project bikes:

















Now look at the fenders as well. Can't seem to get clear pics, but it seems they are pinched?? Could this be a late run? Say 41's? Or am I just seeing things? I have a set of the flat style Pacemaker fenders should they be correct for my bike. Jut wanna find out what is right. I should have gotten the serial number off mine before even starting this thread. I will add it later tonight.


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## redline1968 (Sep 23, 2014)

Elgin's fenders are much more pronounced where they were pinched. The mercury are softer in the pinched areas.


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## fordmike65 (Sep 23, 2014)

So is there a Mercury pinched fender? Here is a pic of my girl's with the usual flat fenders:


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## fordmike65 (Sep 23, 2014)

Here's another view of a bike above. Belongs to a fellow member who unfortunately doesn't frequent the site much. Was hoping he'd respond to my PM's. If you look closely, it almost looks like the front fender is pinched.


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## fordmike65 (Sep 23, 2014)

*Seat tube length?*

I just noticed that there seems to be 2 different length seat tubes(above top tube). Excuse my ignorance, but did both Murray & Westfield build these bikes? Maybe this would explain the different carrier seatclamp mounts that were discussed briefly in another thread. Note how some come straight back while others drop down?


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## rustjunkie (Sep 23, 2014)

The pics show 2 different types of seat post clamp areas used by Murray: one with a clamp tack-welded on and using shims, the other w/o separate clamp and no shims. From what I've seen the type with the shims is earlier, up until maybe early 1940?


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## fordmike65 (Sep 23, 2014)

Yes, saw that too. Thanks for the info Scott! Always a wealth of knowledge

Seems that at least in the OG bikes pictured, the bikes without the seatpost clamp do indeed have a 3 slotted chainring. If that is true, then I do have the incorrect one


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## rustjunkie (Sep 23, 2014)

Could it be that the non-shimmed seatpost bikes take the "Elgin"-type fenders with the pinch?


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## fordsnake (Sep 23, 2014)

Mike, outside of the chainring (which I installed) I don't believe your bike was pieced together? I bought the bike in the early 80's; it was painted with red house paint for almost twenty years, when I primed it grey. As far as I know those fenders were original.


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## fordmike65 (Sep 23, 2014)

fordsnake said:


> Mike, outside of the chainring (which I installed) I don't believe your bike was pieced together? I bought the bike in the early 80's; it was painted with red house paint for almost twenty years, when I primed it grey. As far as I know those fenders were original.




Thanks for chiming in Carlton. A lot could have happened in the 40+ years before you picked it up, so anything is possible. I hope they are correct, but I do have a set of the flatter style should I find they aren't. I'm in no real rush to get it redone, so I have plenty of time to keep researching.


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## fordsnake (Sep 23, 2014)

I recently stumbled across (3) quill head tube nuts...if you're still looking?


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## fordmike65 (Sep 24, 2014)

fordsnake said:


> I recently stumbled across (3) quill head tube nuts...if you're still looking?




PM sent...


Anyone else wanna share they're findings? OG paint bikes? Pics?


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## Freqman1 (Sep 24, 2014)

I eventually plan on owning one of the lit tank bikes so thanks for blazing the trail here Mike. This is one of the best things about the site when people collaborate and make new discoveries. V/r Shawn


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## rustjunkie (Jan 5, 2017)

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/mercury-pacemaker-frame-question.102625/page-2#post-669737


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## azbug-i (Jan 15, 2017)

Ill post pics of mine too . I love reading posts like this


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## None (Jan 18, 2017)

Still trying to finish my Pacemaker project. This is helpful. Anyone know what year I might have? After reading this, I realize I definitely purchased the wrong fenders. Pinched and all...  @kreika kind of already broke that bad news to me on Saturday. I've got a tank, not lit though.


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## None (Jan 18, 2017)




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## Freqman1 (Jan 19, 2017)

I don't know if we've collected enough info concerning serial #s to determine year from that. The way you are equipping your bike would be like the Model 10 and as far as paint goes I think either the green, red, or blue and white would probably be correct. You've got the Merc experts out there to steer you in the right direction! V/r Shawn


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## fordmike65 (Dec 16, 2019)

Long overdue bump!!!

While going back and forth with Chris @kreika about my Pacemaker, we've figured it's pretty legit. The MG serial makes it a one of the last, built in 1942. Pinched fenders are correct (thank you Jebus!) Now all I need is the correct chainring and I'm in business. I now have a nicely repaired original headshroud as well as a couple different original fender ornaments. Its about 3rd in line, so it'll remain in primer until its turn or a nice orignal pops up when I'm not bike-broke.


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## mrg (Dec 16, 2019)

The correct chainring on the late ones are the same as standard Mercury/Elgin 3 row so grab one at the next swap and move it up to the front of the line, can’t wait to see it at Mercury March!


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## fordmike65 (Dec 16, 2019)

mrg said:


> The correct chainring on the late ones are the same as standard Mercury/Elgin 3 row so grab one at the next swap and move it up to the front of the line, can’t wait to see it at Mercury March!



So is this one correct?


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## mrg (Dec 16, 2019)

seems like if it has pinched fenders it has that sprocket and later seat clamp but yours looks like it has the earlier seat clamp so that throws it all up in the air?


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## kreika (Dec 17, 2019)

From what I’ve seen I agree with Mark. In theory that frame should not have the peaked end fenders. With that being said it is a 42 model so they may have used what was left In stock before turning to the war effort? You definitely have late model fenders because of the fender clip being attached to the fender as opposed to the earlier mounted to the fender stay. There are three different Mercury racks as well. Lit rack were not discussing. As the frames had two different seat clamps. The racks had different width at the attachment point to the frame. Wider for the earlier style. Narrow for the pinched fender end style. That’s where I may disagree on early or late. I’ve seen 40’s with the pinched end and 41’s with the original style. Look at mikes 41 ad. It depicts the girls bike with the metal band around the seat post tube clamp style. I had a theory perhaps they weren’t selling as well as the hoped. They shifted to this other ”later style” because Murray was already producing successful components for Elgin’s. Similar chainrings and fenders? Just a theory of course but less tooling and production saves money.  Whatever the case Mike your bike is awesome! Enjoy that ol boy as is.


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## Kickstand3 (Dec 17, 2019)

So I’m also seeing 2 different seats on these rides


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## fordmike65 (Dec 17, 2019)

kreika said:


> From what I’ve seen I agree with Mark. In theory that frame should not have the peaked end fenders. With that being said it is a 42 model so they may have used what was left In stock before turning to the war effort? You definitely have late model fenders because of the fender clip being attached to the fender as opposed to the earlier mounted to the fender stay. There are three different Mercury racks as well. Lit rack were not discussing. As the frames had two different seat clamps. The racks had different width at the attachment point to the frame. Wider for the earlier style. Narrow for the pinched fender end style. That’s where I may disagree on early or late. I’ve seen 40’s with the pinched end and 41’s with the original style. Look at mikes 41 ad. It depicts the girls bike with the metal band around the seat post tube clamp style. I had a theory perhaps they weren’t selling as well as the hoped. They shifted to this other ”later style” because Murray was already producing successful components for Elgin’s. Similar chainrings and fenders? Just a theory of course but less tooling and production saves money.  Whatever the case Mike your bike is awesome! Enjoy that ol boy as is.



Here's another strange detail about my bike. Its a lit tank with lenses....but no guts! I initially figured the battery tray had rotted out and someone removed the remains. Guess not! @kreika has one just like it!!! WTF is going on Murray???


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## kreika (Dec 18, 2019)

fordmike65 said:


> Here's another strange detail about my bike. Its a lit tank with lenses....but no guts! I initially figured the battery tray had rotted out and someone removed the remains. Guess not! @kreika has one just like it!!! WTF is going on Murray???
> 
> View attachment 1111746
> 
> ...



Another Murray mystery for sure. Maybe kids wanted the look but not pay the price of a lit model? Perhaps they realized the lights offered no real illuminating purpose for riding so to save money left that part out? Produced too many lit model tanks but with low demand they just used them as they saw fit?


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## kreika (Dec 18, 2019)

Kickstand3 said:


> So I’m also seeing 2 different seats on these rides




I know the top of the line model used the Messinger sliding rail saddle. My all original girls has a Persons on it. It seems each level of bike came equipped with different seats.


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## kreika (Dec 18, 2019)

Love reading the ads closely. What we call the head shroud. Murray called the head tank or Die cast head.


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## mrg (Dec 18, 2019)

I think it came down to war was coming and they were just using up what they had on the shelves to get bikes out ( Elgin style fenders & standard sprocket were probably more plentiful ), after all they were just bikes and they didn't think they would be around in 80 yrs. much less getting picked apart for accuracy. Think it was like It's Friday, get those bikes loaded on the train!, I bought my 39 ( by serial #'s ) 25 yrs. ago and had factory holes for fender lite ( but a lit tank ), 3 row sprocket and a chrome shroud , It was restored ( ? ) so tried to make it what I thought it should be!, I think the very first bikes and last bikes might have more variations in alot of bikes.


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## mrg (Dec 23, 2019)

I have noticed sometimes in the ads ( all brands ) they will have a seat or pedal model listed then say or equivalent/similar so supply & demand ( or best deal ) sometimes dictated what parts came stock.


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## Kickstand3 (Sep 10, 2020)

fordmike65 said:


> PM sent...
> 
> 
> Anyone else wanna share they're findings? OG paint bikes? Pics?


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