# Yet A Nuther Professionally Restored Phantom



## GTs58

Good gawd, I'm speechless so I'll abbreviate. WTF is this? 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHWINN-BIC...864?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c47d27fa8


Good price though.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

GTs58 said:


> Good gawd, I'm speechless so I'll abbreviate. WTF is this?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHWINN-BIC...864?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c47d27fa8
> 
> 
> Good price though.



Yeah. ..saw that... you would think a phantom would be about the easiest bike to restore considering all the resources available. ...my favorite postwar resto screw up is on the front fender... how people continue the pin stripes over the hump in between the truss and Springer or fork indents....


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

And second. ..it's kinda a b6 now that the fenders are painted. .. I'm enjoying the completely wrong down tube dart... very Pantherish
Did he give up taping off darts?... Ho hum...I'll just paint the fork legs like a hornet. ..  completly authentic restored nos hornatherantomcycle


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## Freqman1

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> Yeah. ..saw that... you would think a phantom would be about the easiest bike to restore considering all the resources available. ...my favorite postwar resto screw up is on the front fender... how people continue the pin stripes over the hump in between the truss and Springer or fork indents....




Well if it had chrome fenders on it like it should have the pinstripes wouldn't be an issue. Another abomination....V/r Shawn


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

Freqman1 said:


> Well if it had chrome fenders on it like it should have the pinstripes wouldn't be an issue. Another abomination....V/r Shawn



And hey for 2500 you get a restored "phantom" without working headlight or horn......professional restoration by who..?..


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## GTs58

The high flange BMX hub, red band and seat post clamp and bolt are some small clues this abortion was restored by a professional. I wonder why the original jello bubbled Schwinn grips weren't used.


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## Schwinndemonium

Bike may be far from historically correct, but it still has mid 1950's style that Schwinn could have used for updating their "B-6" design for with an optional "Phantom" paint package. I'd ride it the way they did it, but not as a "restored" bike , but because I'll idmit, it looks cool, like the "mongrel mutt" Green Phantom I  did in 1973.

I'd ditch the reflectorized pedals, though.

Jim.

I consider it an "alternative timeline Phantom"!


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

Not for 2500 bux....


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

Couldn't get half that for the parts


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## bikecrazy

I get the fact that it is grossly inaccurate and overpriced, but you have to admit that the workmanship is first rate. Who knows, someone may fall in love with it and buy it for what it is, a Hot Rod!


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## Schwinndemonium

bikecrazy said:


> I get the fact that it is grossly inaccurate and overpriced, but you have to admit that the workmanship is first rate. Who knows, someone may fall in love with it and buy it for what it is, a Hot Rod!




That is my point exactly. It is still a gorgeous bike.

Jim.


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## GTs58

bikecrazy said:


> I get the fact that it is grossly inaccurate and overpriced, but you have to admit that the workmanship is first rate. Who knows, someone may fall in love with it and buy it for what it is, a Hot Rod!




I think the vinyl pin striping is atrocious and I personally would be ashamed to own something with crap on it. For the money he's asking it should have been done right.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

GTs58 said:


> I think the vinyl pin striping is atrocious and I personally would be ashamed to own something with crap on it. For the money he's asking it should have been done right.



Exactly. ...don't call it a restored 1950 black phantom when it's clearly not.... I didn't even notice the vinyl. .. ouch...-50 points


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## GTs58

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> Exactly. ...don't call it a restored 1950 black phantom when it's clearly not.... I didn't even notice the vinyl. .. ouch...-50 points




Did you notice the C shaped seat post clamp bolt? And isn't the AS D bolt supposed to be on the non drive side? If I was making a Hot Rod Phantom I could do a better job of F'g it up correctly.


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## syclesavage

*Hornatherantomcycle*

You bike pros (and I mean that in a REALLY positive way) are awesome in how you rip apart some thing you all know is just the wrong way in trying to restore something that if you don't know what your doing just leave the GD thing alone. I love it.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

syclesavage said:


> You bike pros (and I mean that in a REALLY positive way) are awesome in how you rip apart some thing you all know is just the wrong way in trying to restore something that if you don't know what your doing just leave the GD thing alone. I love it.



Well where I come from "to restore" means to put back to original as best you can....As close as "from the factory" as possible. .. This is a rat rod and he should have labeled it as such.... just cause I throw yenko decals and emblems on a 69 nova and have maaco paint it doesn't make it a professional restored yenko nova.... see what I did there
And...it's insulting to the people who actually do factory exact professional restorations in this hobby and who have spent a fair amount of time researching, energy and money perfecting the art of producing a correctly restored factory spec bicycle that when someone can come along with this pile and say professional restoration it's sad honestly...


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## GTs58

syclesavage said:


> You bike pros (and I mean that in a REALLY positive way) are awesome in how you rip apart some thing you all know is just the wrong way in trying to restore something that if you don't know what your doing just leave the GD thing alone. I love it.




If that was something someone just did for themselves there would be a whole different kind of ripping. Trying to pass this off (sell) as a professionally restored Phantom is just wrong no matter what bible you follow. The seller should call it what it is.


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## vincev

Really purdy !MFAO at that crap job.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

GTs58 said:


> If that was something someone just did for themselves there would be a whole different kind of ripping. Trying to pass this off (sell) as a professionally restored Phantom is just wrong no matter what bible you follow. The seller should call it what it is.



Good thing i didn't mention in my opinion a b6 restored into a phantom isn't a true phantom in my eyes... ....


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## GTs58

*A Nuther Cobbled Up Phantom Mess*

This one is a total mess and the price seems to be a couple bucks on the high side. Nice girls? saddle. 

Starting bid $1500, BIN $2200 and no reserve. You could get this for the $1500 if you're lucky!


http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=131332099111


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

GTs58 said:


> This one is a total mess and the price seems to be a couple bucks on the high side. Nice girls? saddle.
> 
> Starting bid $1500, BIN $2200 and no reserve. You could get this for the $1500 if you're lucky!
> 
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-SCH...111?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e9400cc27



Well here is the first problem besides the crap repop fenders....the serial starts with an E.... Pretty sure that is 48... and I'm unaware of a 48 phantom. ..


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## GTs58

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> Well here is the first problem besides the crap repop fenders....the serial starts with an E.... Pretty sure that is 48... and I'm unaware of a 48 phantom. ..




So you're saying this is a fake? And the riveted on headbadge could be original to the bike? ....


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## phantom

Good Gawd.......  I'm glad I startd looking around here again. It's like an old women's social club talking about aunt Bee's hat, that no one else paid for..... Gotta love how people will get upset at things they have absolutely no control over.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

phantom said:


> Good Gawd.......  I'm glad I startd looking around here again. It's like an old women's social club talking about aunt Bee's hat, that no one else paid for..... Gotta love how people will get upset at things they have absolutely no control over.



Oh my friend. ..we are not upset at all....it's humor to us...and that's all it is...
We get a kick out of people passing off a pinto for a corvette is all


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## phantom

Right......Sounds to me like you are more annoyed than humored. Whatever.



> it's insulting to the people who actually do factory exact professional restorations in this hobby and who have spent a fair amount of time researching, energy and money perfecting the art of producing a correctly restored factory spec bicycle that when someone can come along with this pile and say professional restoration it's sad honestly...


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## morton

*American Restorations job?*



GTs58 said:


> If that was something someone just did for themselves there would be a whole different kind of ripping. Trying to pass this off (sell) as a professionally restored Phantom is just wrong no matter what bible you follow. The seller should call it what it is.




At first I thought maybe it was done by American Restorations expert Rick and his crew but the price is too low.  They'd probably want $10,000 for a restoration (sic) as nice (sic) as that!


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## Coaster Brake

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> Yeah. ..saw that... you would think a phantom would be about the easiest bike to restore considering all the resources available. ...my favorite postwar resto screw up is on the front fender... how people continue the pin stripes over the hump in between the truss and Springer or fork indents....





Is the pin stripe supposed end for the truss rods or the fork?
I've seen them run continuously on original paint bikes..
Or maybe I just read this wrong.


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## GTs58

Surprisingly this restored Phantom sold, but not for the $2500. Someone here get a good deal? 

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=121464061864


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## bobcycles

*phantom ebola menace*

*Spreads and spreads....
Spreads because of all the repop parts that were made and remade....made again, then made some more.
So heinous.
I would say maybe 1 out of 50 "restored" phantoms is a close contender on ebay.
And of the 49 that aren't? 
Full disclosure regarding the parts/ build etc rarely if ever happens.

It's too bad.

Same with whizzers on ebay.  Most are horrible cobble jobs with maybe 1 in 100 being a genuine Whizzer.

pretty shameful.  either hucksters swindling, or the unknowing misdescribing.

Ebay at least is entertainment ......and occassionally goodies pop out of nowhere

Oh and......Regarding that auction..........Where the 'best offer' was accepted...   Why does Ebay keep the Accepted offer hidden from the public?  or does anyone out there know how to determine what price finally gets accepted and the item sells for?

*


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## raidingclosets

bobcycles said:


> *Spreads and spreads....
> Spreads because of all the repop parts that were made and remade....made again, then made some more.
> So heinous.
> I would say maybe 1 out of 50 "restored" phantoms is a close contender on ebay.
> And of the 49 that aren't?
> Full disclosure regarding the parts/ build etc rarely if ever happens.
> 
> It's too bad.
> 
> Same with whizzers on ebay.  Most are horrible cobble jobs with maybe 1 in 100 being a genuine Whizzer.
> 
> pretty shameful.  either hucksters swindling, or the unknowing misdescribing.
> 
> Ebay at least is entertainment ......and occassionally goodies pop out of nowhere
> 
> Oh and......Regarding that auction..........Where the 'best offer' was accepted...   Why does Ebay keep the Accepted offer hidden from the public?  or does anyone out there know how to determine what price finally gets accepted and the item sells for?
> 
> *





It's a little tedious, but if you do a completed search using a general word or two from the title and sort the results by price...then eBay places the accepted Best Offer price accordingly in the ranking.  
So if you make your search terms broad enough so there's a lot of results you can narrow down about what it sold for.


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## phantom

> I would say maybe 1 out of 50 "restored" phantoms is a close contender on ebay.
> And of the 49 that aren't?



  A lot depends on how people define the difference between: Restored, refurbished, rebuilt.


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## bikecrazy

In the case of the bike in question, it looks like the origional builder passed away and the bike went into estate liquidation. The seller doesn't know the neuances of how to correctly represent a collector type of bicycle. I still think the bike was well built and the origional owner was having fun expressing his ideas.


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## spoker

i was shown this bike years ado by the original owner when i was doing a service call on his garage door,he knew it wasnt done to original but he did it the way he liked it,and it was offerd in an estate sale for the aforemention resones,did you guys look at the number of sales listed by the seller?that may have given you a clue that it wasnt a single person selling the item,sometimes on the cabe the frenzy to show everyone what you know over rides checking out what is really happening,estate companies and aution houses normally dont know bikes as intimately as those of us in the hobby,the guy is gone and doesnt care what the tear apart ppl think,did anyone message and let them know that the bike was a phantom like bike?most all the ppl here already know the things that were pointed out,so what was the real motivation?it remindes me of throwing a bone into a pack of dogs who dont have much positive things goin on


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## phantom

> on the cabe the frenzy to show everyone what you know over rides checking out what is really happening. All the ppl here already know the things that were pointed out,so what was the real motivation?it remindes me of throwing a bone into a pack of dogs who dont have much positive things goin on



 Well said.


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## Wheeled Relics

*Such a thing as harmless counterfeiting?*

Maybe "tribute" would have been a more accurate way to list? Harmless dialog over a known "marketplace" and freedom of expression over a long line of "considerations" by others. Educational in the least, harmless at its worst. Like comparing catalogs at Christmas, the cabe heads actually need to speak up more and "consider" the sometimes fool heartiness of buyers/sellers less. Just because it has a high price doesn't make anyone care anymore or less. (intrinsic value) A safe place to discuss the meaning of value. I enjoyed learning a little something from this thread about paint details, at the "cost" of no one. Awesome hobbie well "spent"


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## GTs58

spoker said:


> i was shown this bike years ado by the original owner when i was doing a service call on his garage door,he knew it wasnt done to original but he did it the way he liked it,and it was offerd in an estate sale for the aforemention resones,did you guys look at the number of sales listed by the seller?that may have given you a clue that it wasnt a single person selling the item,sometimes on the cabe the frenzy to show everyone what you know over rides checking out what is really happening,estate companies and aution houses normally dont know bikes as intimately as those of us in the hobby,the guy is gone and doesnt care what the tear apart ppl think,did anyone message and let them know that the bike was a phantom like bike?most all the ppl here already know the things that were pointed out,so what was the real motivation?it remindes me of throwing a bone into a pack of dogs who dont have much positive things goin on





My biggest beef is the false advertising misleading the dumb. If you don't know what the hell it is that you are selling, don't make up a bunch of bull crap describing your sows ear as a silk purse. And I did notice the seller was a junk peddler.


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## Wheeled Relics

*This is the place*

Those who "defend" ignorance are usually themselves (knowingly or not) taking advantage or benefiting of the uninformed. It happens. Learn, move on, don't make the same mistakes. Stay moving, keep learning.


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## GTs58

Well, all is well that ends well. The first listing ended with a sold bike when the seller accepted an offer. It now appears the buyer who made the offer backed out of the deal and this "Professionally Restored" Phantom is up for sale again. I assume the unknowing buyer somehow found out this bike was not as advertised and decided to move on possibly looking for a real restored Phantom. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHWINN-BICYCLE-BLACK-PHANTOM-1950-RESTORED-/191410225355?#viTabs_0


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## Wheeled Relics

A "Real" Phantom


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## spoker

i was just going to let this go but i would like to say some things,as i said i met the previous owner years ago when i did a service cal at his home,he found out i liked bikes and asked if i wanted to see his phantom,when he brought it out my first knee jerk reaction was to tell him it was not done CORRECTLY,he said he knew it wasnt dont to correct specs but at that time was on a fixed low income and one of our local profeesional restore guy redid it the way you see it as the guy didnt have funds to make it original,i told him it looked good to me,i guess there maybe alot of reasons bikes get done a certain way,if the guy was still live and trin to promote it as a gennie thats one thing,but if you have some estate whore tryin to rip everyone thats somthing else,this was maby an opertunity to stop and think how this should have been handed,to me the flavor of alot of the posts seem to indicate that the guy was selling it himself,would one warning to the DUMB ppl been enough and perhaps the rest of the post been sent to the email seller?or was it more important to show everyone on the form what they prolly alredy know?loks like it was a great oppertunity to start the brain before wailing on the keyboard!thanks,somthing to consider......


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## morton

*Just Curious*

What would it cost to make this one authentic?  By that I mean replace non-original parts like fenders, etc.  Not thinking of buying it, just curious.


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## TJW

*I inquired about this bike.*

I sent an EBAY message about this bike when it first appeared on EBAY.

One of the questions I asked was "what is the serial number?".

This is the response that I received back on Oct 23:

_Im sorry there is no serial number we checked with the mechanic he assures us that he has two 1954 schwinns that also have no serial numbers 
The bike has been disassembled and boxed for shipping so questions and answers will be limited to visual photos online
Thanks Lee H_

Even being a total novice, I passed because I found it hard to believe that there was no serial number on this bike.


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## bikecrazy

The bike has a serial number when it was built. I have never seen a Schwinn without one.


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## GTs58

bikecrazy said:


> The bike has a serial number when it was built. I have never seen a Schwinn without one.





Quite a few years ago (08?) there was a black 1961 Corvette 5 speed for sale on ebay. The seller stated the bike was totally restored and that he has done many Corvette restorations and knew what was correct and not correct. The bike sold for $2200. In 2011 I believe, that Corvette popped back up on eBay for just over half of the original sell price. It was listed at least 10 times. No serial number on that Corvette and the seller had one hell of a time selling it. The person that did the half assed resto either powdered the frame or painted the bike with 30 coats of paint filling in the serial number. I assumed it was powdered since the decals were flaking off around the edges. Another so called professional restoration where the serial numbers are there but filled in. And seat cover was never touched. 

Here's the bike's first listing in 2011.
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=260737008188


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## spoker

$2200 for pos bike?and ppl wine about big box bikes,just me but i dont know how someone could get $2200 for a corvette?????? if it wasnt a 5 speed it would be the same as a 3 speed tiger with differant decals,i gave my 5 seed away after loosing interest so if you want change my registration to paul andrews,although he is not a menber,thanks


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## 56 Vette

*Getting correct info before looking at a bike*

I love reading threads like this, when it comes to the phantoms I bought, I made sure I looked them over in person before I made an offer. My bike disease started with a free bike, and I looked at forums, websites and talked with bike guys before I even touched it. When I couldn't stop buying them, I lurked here and actually got to go a swap meet in October at Memory Lane Classics, what a wealth of knowledge I am thankful for everyday! Back to the phantoms, both guys I bought the bikes from were not bike guys, going over them and explaining what I had learned by researching them they were both appreciative of the info I gave them, and I got a fair price based on what they had for sale and what I would pay, and I am no expert by any means but don't want to be taken on something that is not what they thought it was. Sorry so long but I really value opinions and info I get from here, and use that info to help my bike education and purchases. Glad I joined!


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## bushb2004

*Relisted*



GTs58 said:


> Surprisingly this restored Phantom sold, but not for the $2500. Someone here get a good deal?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHWINN-BIC...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557





http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHWINN-BICYCLE-BLACK-PHANTOM-1950-RESTORED-/191410225355?[/url]


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## GTs58

bushb2004 said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCHWINN-BICYCLE-BLACK-PHANTOM-1950-RESTORED-/191410225355?[/url]





The link. http://www.ebay.com/itm/19141022535...l?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=191410225355&_rdc=1

I posted the new listing on Nov. 16th so the seller must have gone with a 30 day listing.


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