# Three speed Firestone Featherweight info



## Tomaso (May 30, 2019)

I picked up a Firestone Featherweight 3 speed at the Salvation army (20$) with the goal to restore it. The bike seems to be all there, looks cool and rides really well. I no nothing about the bike so any info from the guru's here about this old bird would be great. 
TIA
Tom

info that I could find:
-On the frame: SE in a circle then underneath it F236412

-Troxel seat "Made in Moscow Tenn USA Pat Pending"

-on the HUB:   333 
                         Three Speed Hub
                          PAT #3021728

-on  both grips: Pat Pending 3 speed hub 333


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## juvela (May 30, 2019)

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Hello Don Tomaso and welcome to the forum!  

The cycle's Shimano 3-speed hub may be marked with a date code.

Shimano date codes are discussed here -

http://www.vintage-trek.com/component_dates.htm#shimano

You might check also for a date code on the trigger...

Would think bicycle to date from the mid to late 1960's.

You could check as well the wheel rims for markings.

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## Tomaso (May 30, 2019)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> Hello Don Tomaso and welcome to the forum!
> 
> ...



Master of bicycles, Don Juvela
Thank you for the warm welcome and insight. I did not know it was a shimano hub and the link you provided has been helpful. So far I am not finding other numbers yet partly because of the rust and grime. I did a patent search on the shimano hub #3021728 and you are correct it looks to be so far from the mid-late sixties.  The Shimano patent was filed in 1959 and granted Feb 20, 1962:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3021728A/en 
Regards,
Tom


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## juvela (May 31, 2019)

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Here is a Shimano catalogue page from 1974 (closest date found) showing their 3-speed system -





The company first began offering a 3-speed internally geared hub in 1957.

Your machine is likely fitted with the second generation model.

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## Tomaso (May 31, 2019)

Again Thank you Juvela! My shimano system is identical to your1974 catalog:


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## juvela (May 31, 2019)

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Grazie Mille Don Tomaso,

Are you able to read the marking on the righthand dropout?

AVI?  TAT?  Other?

Have you been able to read the markings on the bicycle's wheel rims?

Thank you.

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## Tomaso (May 31, 2019)

Maestro di biciclette Don Juvela,
 Righthand dropout says TAT. Thank you as I missed that earlier. Started to clean the rims with WD-40 and #0000 that should hopefully reveal further markings. The hunt continues...
Regards,
Tom


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## juvela (Jun 1, 2019)

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Hello Tom,

Thank you for the additional information.  

I checked the bicycle's serial number and "SE" symbol with a serial numbers expert.

They report cycle supplied to Firestone by Rollfast and its frame supplied to Rollfast by H.P. Snyder.  The "SE" symbol is that of H.P. Snyder.

H.P. Snyder went out of business in the mid-1970's.

There does not seem to be any serial database for Rollfast products.  Company's records reported lost.

Hope this helps you a little bit.  

---

OT -

On the bookshelf behind the bicycle can be seen a framed photo of a two-holer biplane.

It looks like it may be a U.S. Navy Boeing-Stearman 75 Kaydet primary trainer.  Is that correct?






https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing-Stearman_Model_75

Me Dad was a flight instructor during the Second World War in the Army Air Corps and this was the trainer aircraft of the time.  We have some photos of them in family albums.

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## juvela (Jun 1, 2019)

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Possible means of narrowing date -

the machine's brake levers look to be Weinmann model Nr. 132

these are sometimes marked with a date code

if present, it is likely on the inside and would necessitate disassembly of lever

decoding information is located here:

http://www.vintage-trek.com/component_dates.htm#dia


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## Tomaso (Jun 2, 2019)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> Hello Tom,
> 
> ...




Hello Don Juvela Maestro di biciclette,
Thank you again for all the information. Your above and beyond the call of duty is much appreciated. You are correct and the right brake lever is marked with the Weinmann logo and  a 22. I am disassembling the bike currently but no other info I can find on the brake or the calipers yet. A thorough cleaning I'm certain will reveal more clues when the grime and rust is removed from them. 

OT
Fate plays its funny hand once again and that your father was a flight instructor during WWII. When I took the pic of the bike it was raining that day so I brought it inside to take a picture of it without thinking of the background. You are correct on the airplane. It's of me in a Boeing Stearman during the days when I had more hair. I flew many aircraft back in the day but she was my favorite. The straight long landing gear made it difficult to land though. I was told if you couldn't do 3 point landings well in it you went to bomber school. I would have been flying bombers...
The most memorable flight was my last one in it. It took 3 days to fly it from Florida to New Jersey at 200-500 feet along the coast for a new owner in the UK who then had it shipped over there. I believe she's still currently over in the UK hitting the airshow circuits:
https://www.facebook.com/elstreeaerodrome/photos/a.498676910534847/557516314650906/?type=3&theater 
Your father (thank you for his service) also probably flew the T-6 Texan advanced trainer as well. One of the best flying aircraft I had the privilege to fly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_T-6_Texan 
Tragically,  my grandfather and namesake Thomas of the RAF was KIA in 1941 in a Handley Page Hampden. It  was known as the "flying suitcase" and totally outclassed by the Luftwaffe. Impossible to bail out of it if one wanted to. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handley_Page_Hampden#UK_service 
Regards,
Tom


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## slowride (Jun 2, 2019)

Helll Tom,
From my experience if you want three speed internal gear hubs to work properly you have to do a proper disassembly and cleaning. I’ve only done Sturmey Archers so can not offer advice on how to do yours but RJ is knowledgeable and his videos thorough.




Cheers,
Steve


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## Tomaso (Jun 2, 2019)

slowride said:


> Helll Tom,
> From my experience if you want three speed internal gear hubs to work properly you have to do a proper disassembly and cleaning. I’ve only done Sturmey Archers so can not offer advice on how to do yours but RJ is knowledgeable and his videos thorough.
> 
> 
> ...




Your the man Steve! Thanks for looking that up. Youtube is a godsend. 
Regards,
Tom


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## juvela (Jun 2, 2019)

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Good day Tom,

your phrase "Fate plays its funny hand..."  reminded me of the opening voiceover by actor/announcer William Conrad for each episode of _The Fugitive _telly series where the phrase was "fate moves its huge hand..."         

OT -

regarding aviation - j

me father taught at two flight schools that i know of

one was located in Hemet California

the other was called Falcon Field and was located in Arizona

he taught British pilots who nicknamed him "binder" for being strict

...all he could do to try to keep them safe when sent into action was give the best training possible...

his students created a newsletter in later times as a means to stay in touch,  my dad received it for many years, was published intermittently whenever there was enough material for an issue.  it eventually stopped coming to the house about a dozen years back as even the youngest of his pupils dropped away...

yes, they flew the AT-6 Texan, an armed version was used for combat in the early part of the war in the Pacific.   The AT-6 also served "hack" duty at air bases for target towing and the like - where the pilots were distaffers.

this image illustrates four of the many liveries for the AT-6 -






we have some framed photos of them in the family memorabilia

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the Hampden also saw service in the Indo-Pacific theatre where rising sun pilots referred to the type as _The Whispering Death -_






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## Tomaso (Jun 7, 2019)

Maestro di aeroplani e biciclette Don Juvela,
Sorry for the delay responding, the old saying "when it rains it pours"... The bicycle is now completely broken down for cleaning before repainting her. I intend to tackle the rims today and will look for any other markings after removing the rust. The frame itself has yielded no other clues. The peddles however are "made in belgium". A fun project and now the wife is now claiming it as hers.

OT
Thank you for sharing the incredible story of your father. What a complement to be referred to as "binder" among the cadets. I envisioned them sticking like glue together later in combat. Your picture of the AT-6's, the yellow third one is a dead ringer to the navy version I flew. BTW I had no idea about the Hampden seeing combat in the Pacific as well as the T-6's. Thank you! 
Did your father ever mention accidents during startup on the Stearmans? The closest I got killed was doing just that...complacency after starting it countless times. Almost walked into the prop.


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## juvela (Jun 7, 2019)

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Thanks very much for the response, bicycle update and additional photo!

My father never spoke to me of his wartime experience so cannot comment on your question.

He had a background in recreational civilian aviation prior to the conflict so the Air Corps decided to make him an instructor.

He was thirty-one years old by the time the U.S. enjoined the festivities;  the Air Corps had plenty of twenty year old recruits...at least at the commencement of play...

AFAIK he spent his all of his military service stateside as an instructor.

VJ day came just in time for him as he had received orders for Burma to "fly the hump" in transports.

Hope you are having good fun with the Firestone.

Pedals - is there any sort of marking/logo on the dustcap?

Do not know of a Belgian pedal maker.  Something new for me to learn...

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## Tomaso (Jun 9, 2019)

Maestro Don Juvela,
Pictures of the peddles in question and highlighted markings:
Regards,
Tom


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## Adamtinkerer (Jun 9, 2019)

Snyder made Firestones from around '58 to '64.


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## juvela (Jun 9, 2019)

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Hello Don Tomaso,

what livery hath been selected by Mrs. Tomaso for her new mount?

front hub may be a product of Union Frondenberg (DBR)

some are marked with a symbol and some are plain

the likely symbol, if present, is a letter U inside a shield





Union a possibility for the cycle's drive chain as well,  if made by this manufacturer lateral sides of plates will be marked with the U in shield symbol

another part on the cycle which may be Union is the spokes.  check the head for a marking...

additional possible maker for front hub is Wald (US)

thank you for the pedal images, much appreciated

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## Tomaso (Jun 10, 2019)

Adamtinkerer said:


> Snyder made Firestones from around '58 to '64.



Thank you Adam!


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## Tomaso (Jun 10, 2019)

Maestro Don Juvela,
I'm in negotiations with Mrs. Tomaso over the outfit. We've narrowed it down to Milk Maid or Nurse outfit. 
The front hub is marked "Mark 60", Made in USA, Pat Pending
Below is a image from a EXCEL front hub ad  (please note its from Aug 1963 and is missing the Pat Pending below the Made in USA).
Also the chain both Medial and Lateral (your reminding me of me of my ortho rep days) are marked "SEDIS" then every 10 links or so "France"
The link below is from ebay with the closest match to the chain.
Regards,
Tom

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=283112025422 

Front hub:


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## juvela (Jun 13, 2019)

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Me small mind can picture what "Nurse" livery might look like...but not "Milk Maid"...   

Belgian cycle expert reports pedals likely JRC brand:






note the prominent barrel seam, as seen on yours...







Here are some on a Belgian tandem of the Cycles Levrier marque - roughly fifteen years senior to your machine -






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## Tomaso (Jun 19, 2019)

Maestro Don Juvela,
I stand corrected on the MilkMaid as now Vermeer keeps popping up in my mind more I think of it. I cant thank you enough with all the info provided so far.  I'm continuously amazed how you can track down the most minute markings markings in detail! Thank you.  Most of the bicycle is broken down and prepped for painting. I'm still working on the rims but they shall come out very nice. Unfortunately its been raining non stop here in CT so painting is on hold temporarily but at least I have the spectacle of bears raiding my garbage to help pass the time...


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## SirMike1983 (Jun 19, 2019)

We have plenty of that here in Litchfield County. Just another day with the bears.


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## Tomaso (Jun 19, 2019)

SirMike1983 said:


> We have plenty of that here in Litchfield County. Just another day with the bears.




Your correct. That bear is a repeat customer. BTW great pics of White Memorial on your blogspot. I go there often as its a stone throw from Harwinton. We live in a beautiful part of the world.
Regards,
Tom


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