# WW1 Columbia military bike resto questions.



## redline1968 (Dec 25, 2017)

well I just discovered that I had purchased a military bike by accident. Yep I really thought it was just a double bar.. to my surprise it’s not.   So now I’m reasearchng the historic info by reading blogs on this bike. It seams that they are kinda rare and there is not many original color pics of these bikes.. so I.. there are a few questions that I have. Should I resto it in military colors or not.. does it make a difference.. I’ve seen a USA xxx serial numbers with the military color. I don’t think it’s a color indicator... I found that they sent some to Europe during the war..could this USA prefix mean they were exports and not a indicator for color? What are your thoughts?  Here are a few pics of mine I put heavy duty spokes and saddle on it since it’s military... I got the crank and chain ring on its way..yes badge is gone but not forgotten...


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## hoofhearted (Dec 25, 2017)

*redline1968 ......

Type the following in, in the CABE search feature ...

''World War One Era --- OLIVE DRAB''

Read everything ... but especially ENTRY #7 
by rustjunkie.

..... patric

*


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## redline1968 (Dec 26, 2017)

Thanks I will


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## Mercian (Dec 26, 2017)

Hi Redline,

I have a 1917 one that I'm working on. Posts 3 and 4 below will give you a comparison that I made of colours found on the unexposed head of the fork.

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/ww1-westfield-columbia-military-model.109845/

That said, I think that yours is one of the ones made from and sold after the war using surplus frames, and it may be that it was always black. A good place to check for original colour would be inside the bb, or inside the headtube.

Hope this helps.,

Adrian


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## redline1968 (Dec 26, 2017)

Yep black it is.. but I think since it needs resto I'm going with the alternative after all its military even if it was assembled later. And who's to say there wasn't any olive drab bikes made after..lol.  . This one Just never saw bullets ...  And it will look cooler ...thanks for the info


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## redline1968 (Dec 30, 2017)

Got the chain ring and crank installed today looks better but needs bars and badge.. think it’s time to forget about it and wait till the parts show as usual...lol


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## Mercian (Dec 31, 2017)

That does look better. Is this the crank and ring from Hoofhearted? If so, it turned up at the right time for you, they are not easy to find.

Is that the WW2 toolbag on the back? I'm still looking for the WW1 one which is somewhat less egg shaped (-:

For the bars on mine, I used rechromed WW2 military bars, these are the same pattern as the WW1 bars, and easily available on Ebay. I discuss it on some posts here:

http://hmvf.co.uk/topic/37408-us-1917-westfield-columbia-quotmilitary-modelquot-bicycle/

The correct pattern grips I got from here:

http://www.vintageccm.com/content/corrugated-rubber-grips

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## sam (Dec 31, 2017)

For color I contacted Philip Eckman on his restoration and this was his reply:


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## redline1968 (Dec 31, 2017)

Thank you the info and yes that’s the chain ring.. the too bag was one I had laying around.  It will be addressed when I find one lol..  believe it or not I had the bars in the past I know what to look for for them.  I’ll bet the military color will make this thing pop hard! But as with everything projects it will have to wait it’s turn. I’m going into gas operated mode and start working on my Pontiac and a ww2 paratrooper military simplex bike and possibly my flying merkel bicycle etc etc etc.... :0


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## sam (Dec 31, 2017)




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## Mercian (Jan 1, 2018)

Hi sam,

I've found that the description you've posted is a good start point for details of the bicycle (and, as far as I'm aware, there is no known official Military specification surviving), but it is for the postwar bike, and certain items have been changed.

I think the biggest is the wheels/tyres. The spec. above gives "Steel cement rims. Morrow coaster brake. Pope concave front hub". As discussed in post s 44-46 here:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1918-dayton-military-bicycle.57698/page-3

the military wheels are single tube clinchers. The coaster brake is a Morrow, but I have only seen 'straight' front hubs on the military wheels, and so far been unable to identify them (does anyone here know? Pope? Eclipse?




 
http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/world-war-one/1918-ww1-columbia-military-model-u-s-army-issue-usa748/

There may be other changes too. Has anyone confirmed the White pedal rubbers, for example?

Also, there may have been variations in the WW1 Military Model as prewar civilian parts were used up and replaced by wartime parts.

Happy new year. (-:

Adrian


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## redline1968 (Jan 2, 2018)

I have both types of hubs one is concaved and the other is straight.  I never checked to see if there is a stamped name on them.  I can supply pics of them and check for the name if any.. the concaved is slightly larger in the shaft size then the straight. the spokes are the same size. As far as the pedals not sure. It seems that black seems to be the norm not sure also the pedal shafts for the bike are slightly larger in diam.


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## Mercian (Jan 3, 2018)

Hi Redline,

Thanks for your thoughts and the offer of checking. There is absolutely no urgency, but if you ever do get the chance to check the hubs, then I'd be interested to know your conclusions.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## redline1968 (Jan 4, 2018)

Here’s what your have none are marked.. two looked like it was originally painted and one nickeled.  The hour glass hubs you could park a truck on them.   The other is thinner but has the same gauge spokes.


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## Mercian (Jan 5, 2018)

Hi Redline,

Thanks for the photos. Interesting that none of them resemble the one from Oldbikes in my post, though I have no doubt all are original. 

I have also just privately received photos of another mostly complete Columbia Military Model which turned up in France late last year. This too has a straight front hub. The photo is not too clear, but seems similar to Redline's. I will see if I can get a clearer picture.

The Hourglass ones I imagine are the 'Pope Concave' mentioned in the advert Post 10. The straight ones, I have no idea, but get the feeling they may be earlier, if, as we know, the advert is circa 1920. At least I need not be so prescriptive in my search for a 'correct' front axle.

As an aside, what's with the front fork design that only has holes for the axle, not slots? Why did it take so long for them to figure this was a duff idea? It's not as if the rear wheel wasn't located in slots. I really don't like prising apart 100 year old forks to put the wheel on... (-:

Have a Good Weekend,

Adrian


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## redline1968 (Jan 5, 2018)

The hour glass is easier to remove its self contained and the shaft just pulls through the fork hole.  Yep removal is a pain if you don’t have the right axle shaft.  There is a trick to them. Seems like the Indian was earliest to use the standard forks slots we use today.   As far as the dates They are close.
 I’m betting m the straight hub that’s what I’m going with.


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## catfish (Jan 5, 2018)

Mercian said:


> There may be other changes too. Has anyone confirmed the White pedal rubbers, for example?




Mine has white Columbia pedals.


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## catfish (Jan 5, 2018)




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## Mercian (Jan 6, 2018)

Hi Catfish,

Interesting, and Thanks for the very informative photo, the first one I've seen of a white Columbia pedal block. Forgive me for asking, is yours a WW1 or postwar Military Model? (I tried searching, but I'm too short of time this morning to read all the conversations on CABE, I really should start listing the Military Models).

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## sam (Jan 8, 2018)

I think something that should be talked about is the handle bars---don't the WW1 differ from the WW2 bars at the center----I'm under the impression the WW1 bars used a sleeve  and the WW2 bars used a budge.


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## sam (Jan 8, 2018)

One other thing ,you can't readily see but the early Morrow hubs used a non-grooved brake sleeve


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## redline1968 (Jan 8, 2018)

Yep ww1 bars are sleeved no knurling. Knurling was a later style ww2..


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## Wing Your Heel (Jan 9, 2018)

Here's original unrestored one, found in France, used in WW1 (same model was sold in USA after 1918)

You can see serial number for reference, plus 'USA' military saddle, colour etc etc

http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/world-war-one/1918-ww1-columbia-military-model/


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## redline1968 (Jan 9, 2018)

Thanks nice score cool bike.


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## Mercian (Jan 10, 2018)

Hi Wing Your Heel,

Thanks for posting that up. I've used the photos of the Military Models on your excellent site as references whilst restoring mine. Nice, detailed pictures. (-:

On the subject of the USA serial number, it's nice when this is on the frame, but I've now seen three examples of army issued Militay Models from France where there is no number. Initially, I wondered if they'd been filed off when the bikes passed into civilian hands, but looking carefully at the paint on the bb, this doesn't seem to be the case.

It's probably not possible to tell, but does the USA number on the examples you've seen appear to be stamped on before (ie, by Westfield) or after manufacture (ie, by the army)?  

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Bozman (Apr 2, 2018)

redline1968 said:


> Got the chain ring and crank installed today looks better but needs bars and badge.. think it’s time to forget about it and wait till the parts show as usual...lolView attachment 730801 View attachment 730804 View attachment 730805 View attachment 730806



Looking at your bike, did the tool bag come with bike or did you add it on.  Looks like the same bag as the G519. Been in discussions with bike collectors to find out what type of tool bag was issued with the WWI GI bicycle.  Seems the the bicycle repair pouch at the Army Quartermaster Museum is really a repair pouch for the 1917 Browning Water Cooled Machine-gun.  

All the Best

Boz 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## redline1968 (Apr 2, 2018)

I added it on the bike. It’s a persons bag.


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## Bozman (Apr 2, 2018)

Thanks for the quick reply.  Trying to track down a correct example of the WWI GI bicycle tool bag. 

Boz

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## redline1968 (Apr 3, 2019)

Got original bars now. Amazing what a difference bars make....


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## catfish (Nov 25, 2020)

Mercian said:


> Hi Catfish,
> 
> Interesting, and Thanks for the very informative photo, the first one I've seen of a white Columbia pedal block. Forgive me for asking, is yours a WW1 or postwar Military Model? (I tried searching, but I'm too short of time this morning to read all the conversations on CABE, I really should start listing the Military Models).
> 
> ...



Sorry for the late reply. I just saw this.  

Mine is a wartime military bike.


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