# Help me date this New World please



## rollfaster

Looks like 48 by the SN, but not sure. A friend picked this up yesterday. Appreciate any thoughts on this being an original paint bike also. @SirMike1983 @rennfaron @Eric Amlie 
@


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## SirMike1983

I think the serial number is a fair indicator on this one. Certainly looks post-war and if we go by the chart, 1948 would be right.


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## jpromo

Seatpost clamp and chainring (without 4 small holes) would make me think '48 is correct.


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## rollfaster

Thanks guys!! Should look nice after cleanup and service!


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## Scout Evans

From the 48 catalog:


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## 49autocycledeluxe

great bike. I'd love to find something like that for cheap. until then I will ride my cheap 1960 _RACER. _


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## rollfaster

Close as I can come is my 53 New World.


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## rennfaron

rollfaster said:


> Close as I can come is my 53 New World.



No such thing as a 1953 new world. It’s a 1953 world.


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## rollfaster

Something cool here is the 48 has a tapered kickstand!


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## rollfaster

rennfaron said:


> No such thing as a 1953 new world. It’s a 1953 world.



Ok.


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## GTs58

rollfaster said:


> Something cool here is the 48 has a tapered kickstand!
> 
> View attachment 1199834




That's just so cool!  And we have people dating bikes to *1946* just because their bike has a (pencil tip) tapered kickstand. Surprise Surprise.


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## SirMike1983

The conventional wisdom as to tapered stands is that they were a 1946 item. But I've seen the tapered stands on some of the 1947 lightweights. This may be the first tapered I've seen on a '48. They are common enough on the lightweights that I sort of don't pay attention to it.


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## rollfaster

I forgot to mention also..it has stamped stainless rims.


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## SirMike1983

The Schwinn-branded "stainless" rims are excellent - they're a notch above basic steel straight-sided tourist or S6 (though those are not bad at all). It's a big plus for these bikes, in my book.


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## Miq

We've been guessing that the other post war E serial New Worlds are 1948 or 49.  I'm going to add it to the chart.


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## GTs58

Miq said:


> We've been guessing that the other post war E serial New Worlds are 1948 or 49.  I'm going to add it to the chart.
> 
> View attachment 1209041




The post war E series started and ended in 1948. Since Schwinn pre-stamped the serial numbers on the components and it's known that their model year change over started with the November's and all of December's stamped serials, those bikes were most likely the early 49 models and built in 49.   Any 48 stamping starting with E133800 would be questionable as 1948 models.


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## Miq

@GTs58 That seems to make sense with the New Worlds we've collected.  I'd roll the early 49 E series stamped component use-up back to Harpo's E41183 with Marrow 49-1 hub.  How about this updated chart?


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## GTs58

Miq said:


> @GTs58 That seems to make sense with the New Worlds we've collected.  I'd roll the early 49 E series stamped component use-up back to Harpo's E41183 with Marrow 49-1 hub.  How about this updated chart?
> 
> View attachment 1209321




I'm not sure about HARPO's with the 49 dated hub. Could it possibly be original to the bike or not. A chance the BB shells were poorly organized and it sat around for long period before his frame was built?  His and Arf's serial numbers were earlier numbers, a mid and late Sept stamping with 5 digits. I've seen this happen in the later years with few late Oct serials but not Sept numbers unless they were all new models being introduced early for sales before Christmas like the Phantom or the middleweight Jaguar. I'm up in the air on those two being 49's, but it is possible.


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## 3-speeder

rennfaron said:


> No such thing as a 1953 new world. It’s a 1953 world.



So New World to World was when? I'm thinking 1950.....  Is that correct?


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## Miq

Maybe we should roll back a little earlier for some of the World vs New World vs World name usage.


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## Miq

@GTs58  This is more like it then.


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## Miq

1917 vvvv






1925  vvvv




1939  vvvv  (NEW WORLD)








1941 New World  vvvv




1942 War Model New Worlds (VW1M)  vvvv







Sometime during the war the mudguard stays got changed from the round wire type seen on the early 40s bikes to the flat bar type, like on your friend's bike.

1948 New World


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## rennfaron

3-speeder said:


> So New World to World was when? I'm thinking 1950.....  Is that correct?



Well IMO I think the "New World" turned into the "World Traveler" in 1950. The "World" was the cheaper model and it seems more correct to me that the "World Traveler" was more in line with the "New World." However, I don't really think that one turned into other as the "World Traveler" was a completely different look and feel than the "New World." But I guess if you had to pick it would be "New World" to "World Traveler." I think @SirMike1983 told me once that there might be some straggler 1950 NWs but I haven't come across them. There might be a couple out there... And I don't think @Miq has any in his list.


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## rollfaster

rennfaron said:


> Well IMO I think the "New World" turned into the "World Traveler" in 1950. The "World" was the cheaper model and it seems more correct to me that the "World Traveler" was more in line with the "New World." However, I don't really think that one turned into other as the "World Traveler" was a completely different look and feel than the "New World." But I guess if you had to pick it would be "New World" to "World Traveler." I think @SirMike1983 told me once that there might be some straggler 1950 NWs but I haven't come across them. There might be a couple out there... And I don't think @Miq has any in his list.



So why did they use New World decals on a World model?


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## rennfaron

rollfaster said:


> So why did they use New World decals on a World model?



Can you explain? 
There are NO "NEW WORLD" script decals on any World model schwinn. Or are you talking about the seat post "hat in the ring" decal? Those aren't specific to NWs as they show up on 30s/40s paramounts / superiors (and on the paramounts through the 50s, I think until '59, but don't know much about paramounts). They also show up again when the racers started in the mid-to-late 50s (after the world died off). They did use the "New World" round head badge on the '50 and '51 "World Travelers" and "World" models.


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## rollfaster

rennfaron said:


> Can you explain?
> There are NO "NEW WORLD" script decals on any World model schwinn. Or are you talking about the seat post "hat in the ring" decal? Those aren't specific to NWs as they show up on 30s/40s paramounts / superiors (and on the paramounts through the 50s, I think until '59, but don't know much about paramounts). They also show up again when the racers started in the mid-to-late 50s (after the world died off). They did use the "New World" round head badge on the '50 and '51 "World Travelers" and "World" models.



Never mind.


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## rollfaster

I was wrong about this, decals say World. Badge says New World. Guess I’ll have to edit all my posts on the bikes I’ve posted over the years. All to confusing to me.


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## rollfaster

My 53 Schwinn World.


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## rollfaster

My other 53 Schwinn World.


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## rollfaster

My 51 Schwinn World.


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## GTs58

rollfaster said:


> I was wrong about this, decals say World. Badge says New World. Guess I’ll have to edit all my posts on the bikes I’ve posted over the years. All to confusing to me.




At the beginning of the 50's Schwinn started mixing up and changing things around. Bikes with just model numbers were given names and then doing weird things like putting Spitfire head badges on Hornets and the old model numbers were also changed. It's like you came home from work one day and the Wife completely rearranged the Living Room.


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## Miq

@rollfaster Your collection is sweet! I love the 51 especially.  Evil.  Great decals and paint on your 53's.  



rennfaron said:


> And I don't think @Miq has any in his list.




I don't have anything past Bozman's 1949 Ladies Blue E Serial bike.  But I would love to add the serial numbers and pics from @rollfaster 's Worlds and any other World/New Worlds people collect to the list.  PM me the serial info and any other shots you can share or post them over in the thread.  New World Chart


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## rennfaron

Add them to the list but WORLDs are not NEW WORLDs. Only relation is because they both have "world" in the model name. I think you will just add to the confusion by doing this.


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## Miq

Seems too strict to me @rennfaron   My 41 New World is just as much a “New World” as one with a tool bag, 3 piece crank, hand brakes, and multi-gear hub.  To say that the simple 50s lightweight “World” bikes are in a different spirit from the earlier New World bikes seems limiting.  Can we agree that New World lightweights are a platform that can be equipped to different tastes?  

If some of the 50 and 51 World bikes came with ”New World“ head badges, it’s hard to make a case to exclude those just because Schwinn rearranged the furniture.  Especially since the 3 bikes pictured above look almost identical to my 41.





With that said I’d like to stop any confusion on there being different models in the 50s like World and Traveler bikes.  Similar to pre war vs war time and post war charts, I would separate these 50s World bikes and any Traveler bikes we collect in different tables.  Does that make sense?


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## rennfaron

Miq said:


> Seems too strict to me @rennfaron   My 41 New World is just as much a “New World” as one with a tool bag, 3 piece crank, hand brakes, and multi-gear hub.  To say that the simple 50s lightweight “World” bikes are in a different spirit from the earlier New World bikes seems limiting.  Can we agree that New World lightweights are a platform that can be equipped to different tastes?
> 
> If some of the 50 and 51 World bikes came with ”New World“ head badges, it’s hard to make a case to exclude those just because Schwinn rearranged the furniture.  Especially since the 3 bikes pictured above look almost identical to my 41.
> 
> With that said I’d like to stop any confusion on there being different models in the 50s like World and Traveler bikes.  Similar to pre war vs war time and post war charts, I would separate these 50s World bikes and any Traveler bikes we collect in different tables.  Does that make sense?



This "spirit" thing is strange to me because if you look at a lot of the cantilever schwinn models they are all very similar except for an added light kit here, an added rack there, swap out saddle here, decal changes there and a couple swapped components. No one over in that forum calls an american or tiger a corvette just because they look very similar (they have a lot more interest and people scrutinizing details). Rearrange furniture? That is just the way schwinn did things. That is the way they met certain price points and the way they could reuse without having to recreate an entirely new thing. Cheapest way to do that is new paint colors and new decals (almost the same parts) and then call the bike "ALL NEW" on all the advertisements. The car industry has done that constantly over time. The lightweight tourists of the 50s were all very similar. To that point, all the diamond frame lightweight tourist bikes of this period by all manufacturers basically "looked" the same. And to that point, many of the parts found on the very early travelers were english parts (the brake levers can be found on same period raleighs; the saddle bag can also be found on same year raleighs; many of the early travelers can be found with OEM wrights / brooks saddles; I am sure there are more but don't know enough about other manufacturers - I do know that the 50s columbia lightweight tourists looked so similar to the traveler - check out "the lexington" attached - look at it side-by-side to the traveler ad below). Under this "spirit" lens you need to start calling the 40s paramount / superior tourists, "worlds" too then...

It is easy to make a case - Just because you like a certain model doesn't mean you can broadly define them all the same. By "world bikes" I assume you are referring to world, traveler and varsity models because the traveler and varsity also said "WORLD" on their decals? Schwinn was not strict to call the traveler and varsity models "world traveler" and "world varsity" in all literature. I picked that up by @SirMike1983 to help define the early travelers from the later travelers and it made sense. In some literature they say "world traveler" but not all. In the price lists and bicycles parts accessories catalogs they just call them traveler and varsity. When Schwinn moved into 50s the "world" term started to die off when used with the traveler and varsity models. Obviously the world model was always referred to as world, as that is what the model was called. All of the examples I have seen of the early 50s world and world traveler models had NW head badges. I don't know the reasoning by Schwinn to keep those NWs head badges on new models of a different name. And reusing the head badge didn't mean they were trying to apply NW value to the new models because they never mentioned the the NWs in any traveler or world ads. It wasn't like they said, hey folks, check out this reimagined NW, now called the traveler. Schwinn was always trying to promote NEW. Attached is an early 50s traveler ad. Notice the round head badge. They don't speak of NW in the ad. They don't care. They also don't call it the "world traveler" in this ad. That was then, this is now. The term "world" has been around with Schwinn since the very beginning. That was something the founders obviously saw value in and I assume liked the thought of expedition and discovery (some of this stuff is really old) (they also liked to say "world's finest" in just about every advertisement). (edit) Most if not all of the Schwinn's bikes were "world" bikes back in the late 1800s and early 1900s, as I understand that back then that was their offering - "world bicycles" (I don't know enough about the early days - but I think there was a world line and an excelsior line as their offering later on). Schwinn has used and reused and reapplied the term "world" throughout their history on many bikes (world (late 1800s / early 1900s); the world (30s / 40s / 50s?); world imperial (40s / 40s / 40s / 50s?); world motorbike; new world (30s/40s); world traveler (50s / 70s); world (50s); world varsity (50s); world tourist (80s / 90s); world sport (80s); world voyageur (70s); I am sure there are more. Many of the head badges featuring the word "world" look very similar too (attached - the first one shown is very early 1900s). Schwinn just reused stuff. That doesn't mean they were the same bikes or in the "spirit" of the NWs.

Part of what I think makes this site great is the enthusiasm of many trying to understand Schwinn's thought process by digging through the catalogs, finding original examples and then determining what is correct and not correct for certain years. It is also the reason I think many come to the site to better understand what they have and don't have. I think it is a disservice to blur lines. I have spent a considerable amount of time and money trying to document and understand all of these 50s lightweights. I really enjoy trying to understand why Schwinn did certain things and equally enjoy trying to track down period correct parts and original bikes.

If you want to make a list, great, it will be good to see things in the same way you have done with NWs, but don't lump models together just because you think they visually look the same. If you want to make separate lists, cool. I thought what you did with the NWs was long overdue and someone needed to collect all the information that was out there into a quick guide. It would be interesting to find some 50s NWs to see them dated side-by-side with "world" and "traveler" models.

Also - Rollfaster's world looks similar because it is either a repaint or the decals have been rubbed off, so it appears more similar. As stated above, sure it looks similar. The differences in the lightweights are small. Same with the differences in the cantilever bikes of the 50s (as @GTs58 will tell you).


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## Miq

It is indeed more complicated than I ever imagined.  Thanks for the pics and explanation above, clearly the 50s bikes are more difficult to differentiate and relying on the World markings won't work.  I think you are right in the fact that Schwinn marketing people liked the words World and New and New World and applied them in all kinds of ways to all kinds of bikes.  It only has to make sense to the people using it at that moment in time.  Trying to make it mean the same thing across decades is fruitless.

I'd be happy to keep the different 50s models grouped correctly.  I'm sure I would need guidance, but it would be useful to understand how these models differed over the years.


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## 1motime

rollfaster said:


> My other 53 Schwi
> 
> 
> rollfaster said:
> 
> 
> 
> My other 53 Schwinn World.View attachment 1210507
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great collection!  If both of your bikes are 1953's why are the front fender fins are different?  The painted early style is angled rearwards.  The shiny (stainless?) one is angled forward with a more blunt look.  I have both styles and wonder when they changed and why.  Same stamping process.
Click to expand...


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## rollfaster

Yes, the stainless fenders are later. When I got the red ones, it was fenderless. A friend donated the fenders.


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## GTs58

Didn't they go from chrome in 53 to painted in 54?


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## rennfaron

GTs58 said:


> Didn't they go from chrome in 53 to painted in 54?



1954 the World stopped and the Collegiate popped up for one year (see price list - see discontinued models). The Collegiate had painted fenders (unique white with red striping). The 24" world model was still offered in '54.


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## GTs58

rennfaron said:


> 1954 the World stopped and the Collegiate popped up for one year (see price list - see discontinued models). The Collegiate had painted fenders (unique white with red striping). The 24" world model was still offered in '54.
> View attachment 1211679






This is so confusing. Not only did the wife rearrange the living room while I was at work, she got rid of my beer fridge!


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## 1motime

rollfaster said:


> Yes, the stainless fenders are later. When I got the red ones, it was fenderless. A friend donated the fenders.



That explains it!  My 63 Racer has a painted blunt one.  My 40 the more swept back. .Not sure when the different shaped front was introduced.


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## rennfaron

1motime said:


> That explains it!  My 63 Racer has a painted blunt one.  My 40 the more swept back. .Not sure when the different shaped front was introduced.



Should be peaked fenders in '63 and the scoop / rounded ones in '64 (same year the collegiate picked back up in the 5 speed - same type fenders). I see many "63" racers with scoop fenders so maybe they were late year?


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## schwinnlax

There were also other bikes in the early '50s not mentioned here such as the "Clubman," which I believe was also a one year model.  I'ts clear Schwinn was trying a lot of variations, probably to help the lightweight line catch on.  F. W. Schwinn really wanted to compete and win against the Europeans in the light weight category, but it was an uphill climb for Schwinn until the '60s boom.


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