# Advice On Building A Touring Bike



## bikiba

hi guys

I have been planning a 350 mile ride and wanted to build a custom bike for the trip. The roads will go from pavement to hard dirt to POSSIBLY some loose dirt. But it will all be small towns or villages.

So I have been thinking about buying a new bike like a surly or something else, but I was thinking maybe using an old frame, with newer components.

I was thinking:
- ill need about 10 speeds
- 2.25 - 3" tires
- the ability to put on panniers on the back, maybe a roll on the front. I am not planning on taking any more than some tools, clothes which I will wash every couple of days
- ill be staying in a hotel each night along the way. about 50miles a day
- id like the frame to be strong, comfy ... not break on me!
- able to add those small plastic fender shields
- able to dodge monkeys, cows, street dogs 

so the advice I need is:
is there a classic touring frame that would be able to fit newer components? do you think I shld just go with a new frame given I will be in another country?

I have a 1940s new world frame that I was eyeballing as a potential candidate. I have a 70s Raleigh and the 50s dutch bike I never sold, but had posted on the cabe months back for sale.

any advice would be a help and appreciated 

-Steve


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## Iverider

I have a Surly Disc Trucker that I use for bike camping/touring that I like quite a bit. It'll fit a 700x42 tire which is about all you would need even if you're riding offroad. I've ridden swampy single track with my bike on 700x40 tires with great results. Picking a bike that fits you well is the most important part of longer distance riding. Of the three bikes you listed, are any of them the perfect fit for your leg length and torso length (seat tube and top tube)?


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## bikiba

Krautwaggen said:


> I have a Surly Disc Trucker that I use for bike camping/touring that I like quite a bit. It'll fit a 700x42 tire which is about all you would need even if you're riding offroad. I've ridden swampy single track with my bike on 700x40 tires with great results. Picking a bike that fits you well is the most important part of longer distance riding. Of the three bikes you listed, are any of them the perfect fit for your leg length and torso length (seat tube and top tube)?




thanks for the reply.

They are all ok, but I have never put in 50miles at a stretch on them and they are all single gear coaster brakes. This spring summer I am thinking of outfitting them with some larger tires and taking them for a stretch to see how the frame holds up. I don't expect any stump jumping. I just need a comfy ride given the overall distance.


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## Iverider

My current setup uses a 2x11 speed drivetrain although I'm going to shift to 3x9 just because it's cheap and easy. If you're carrying more than 20 pounds and will encounter any hills, having multiple speeds will be nice. I rode a single speed coaster brake bike around 160 miles over a three day period with 40 pounds of gear. I was in rolling hills and a good amount of flat land, but the last day was through some tougher hills and that was murder.


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## bikiba

Krautwaggen said:


> My current setup uses a 2x11 speed drivetrain although I'm going to shift to 3x9 just because it's cheap and easy. If you're carrying more than 20 pounds and will encounter any hills, having multiple speeds will be nice. I rode a single speed coaster brake bike around 160 miles over a three day period with 40 pounds of gear. I was in rolling hills and a good amount of flat land, but the last day was through some tougher hills and that was murder.




wow! 160 miles on a coaster brake bike... was it an oldie? You have given me some confidence that my trip ahead is possible. 

I think max I will have 50lbs plus me at 200lbs. I was thinking of a 1x9 honestly. I think I will only need about 4 gears and wanted to keep everything simple as possible


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## Iverider

It was on my 1915 Iver Johnson Truss Bridge Roadster 




Culberston Mansion by VW Sightings, on Flickr

Rest of the trip was sort of documented here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/32224799@N02/albums/72157634486674563


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## bikiba

Krautwaggen said:


> It was on my 1915 Iver Johnson Truss Bridge Roadster
> 
> Rest of the trip was sort of documented here:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/32224799@N02/albums/72157634486674563




trust the truss!

how big were the tires?


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## Iverider

Those are the same WTB Pathway 700-38c tires I have on my Disc Trucker now. On the sidewall it also says 700x40 which is closer to what they really are I believe.



1915 Iver Johnson Truss Bridge Roadster by VW Sightings, on Flickr


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## fattyre

New Bike!  Heres my thoughts-


  Mixing and matching new parts on an old frame might not be that easy.  Especially durable modern derailleur parts and shifters.  Headsets and cranksets are also way better and easier to service compared to old stuff.   Finding parts that properly retro fit to an old frame could be real time consuming.  It's do-able, but there is going to be some trail and error.  350 miles is not a good time to be monkeying around when you want to be enjoying the trip.

    Surly makes some really nice versatile bikes of good quality at an entry price level.  I know people who have ridden across Iowa (Trans-Iowa race) on a stock Cross Checks and had no issues. Although with a new bike, you'll have to spend more money.  I'm sure there are other brands that offer similar bikes, but Surly defiantly leads the pack in affordable and versatile bikes.

  Two more benefits to new bikes-   More modern frame geometry.  A new frame compared to the New world and the dutch bike will be way different.  Find a shop and test ride a few.  I think you'll notice and immediate difference.  Also weight.   Night and day difference.  New bikes are light and extremely durable.  Alloy wheels, alloy bars, stem, post, hubs , and on and on.  Especially when you are looking at bikes that are 1500 dollars and up. There is a reason people like lightweight bikes.  They are way easier and more fun to ride.


Being comfortable on your bike is also really really important as previously mentioned.  Don't skip on having the right size bike.  Day after day, a poor fitting bike will wear you down faster than you can put miles on.  The most important thing above all is to be comfortable.  If your bike makes you hurt, than your probably not going to want to use it.

I also agree that no more than a 40c tire is necessary.  Anything after that is just unnecessary friction for the terrain you described..  Modern tires with nice sidewalls and good rubber compounds are no comparison to old tires of even 15 years ago.


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## bikiba

fattyre said:


> New Bike!  Heres my thoughts-
> 
> 
> Mixing and matching new parts on an old frame might not be that easy.  Especially durable modern derailleur parts and shifters.  Headsets and cranksets are also way better and easier to service compared to old stuff.   Finding parts that properly retro fit to an old frame could be real time consuming.  It's do-able, but there is going to be some trail and error.  350 miles is not a good time to be monkeying around when you want to be enjoying the trip.
> 
> Surly makes some really nice versatile bikes of good quality at an entry price level.  I know people who have ridden across Iowa (Trans-Iowa race) on a stock Cross Checks and had no issues. Although with a new bike, you'll have to spend more money.  I'm sure there are other brands that offer similar bikes, but Surly defiantly leads the pack in affordable and versatile bikes.
> 
> Two more benefits to new bikes-   More modern frame geometry.  A new frame compared to the New world and the dutch bike will be way different.  Find a shop and test ride a few.  I think you'll notice and immediate difference.  Also weight.   Night and day difference.  New bikes are light and extremely durable.  Alloy wheels, alloy bars, stem, post, hubs , and on and on.  Especially when you are looking at bikes that are 1500 dollars and up. There is a reason people like lightweight bikes.  They are way easier and more fun to ride.
> 
> Being comfortable on your bike is also really really important as previously mentioned.  Don't skip on having the right size bike.  Day after day, a poor fitting bike will wear you down faster than you can put miles on.  The most important thing above all is to be comfortable.  If your bike makes you hurt, than your probably not going to want to use it.
> 
> I also agree that no more than a 40c tire is necessary.  Anything after that is just unnecessary friction for the terrain you described..  Modern tires with nice sidewalls and good rubber compounds are no comparison to old tires of even 15 years ago.




Thanks for the reply. I agree with everything you are suggesting. My issue was that I didn't want to buy ANOTHER bike 

Key for me is comfort as you mention and I am going to make my way to the shop this weekend.


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## Iverider

I just picked up this Steel framed 80s Novara for $150 in time warp condition. It was a "Wife-bike" So it mostly sat in the garage. With the addition of bar-end shifters and a rack or two this bike would ride comfortably all day long as long as the rider and the bike fit each other.




 


bikiba said:


> Thanks for the reply. I agree with everything you are suggesting. My issue was that I didn't want to buy ANOTHER bike
> 
> Key for me is comfort as you mention and I am going to make my way to the shop this weekend.


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## bikiba

i took the rattley front fender off of my 40s RF and put in 12 miles in about 65mins [ and found a $20 bill  ] If i had a tad bigger tires, some hand breaks, 3 speeds and some aero bars i think i would be fine honestly.


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## bulldog1935

check out my 2 x 9 compact double here 
the semi-log graph is good for visualizing the gear spacing, as well as the speed graph

this is a really good long-distance loaded drivetrain
It functions like a 1x in the cruising gears, and like a separate, shorter 1x when you're climbing serious grades



This outfit is in Germany, but it's worth the effort.
Their prices on pre-made Miche custom cassettes are cheap enough that shipping costs are irrelevant.
http://www.probikeshop.com/en/us/ro...#t=36&typeSearch=1&manId=225&page=1&search=13
Look at these choices in pre-made 10-sp cassettes
11/21 : 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21
11/23 : 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23
11/25 : 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25
11/30 : 11-12-13-15-17-19-21-24-27-30
12/21 : 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21
12/23 : 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23
12/25 : 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25
12/27 : 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-27
12/30 : 12-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-27-30 - I would get rid of the 25 & 27 and add a 16 & 26
13/23 : 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-23
13/24 : 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-22-24
13/26 : 13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-26
13/28 : 13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-28
13/29 : 13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29
13/30 : 13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-27-30
14/23 : 14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23
14/25 : 14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-23-25
14/28 : 14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25-28
14/29 : 14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-27-29
14/30 : 14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-27-30
16/25 : 16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25


Good FD will make the 25T to 42T step easy - this is a new Ultegra CX70,  but my old Shimano 600EX FD from '78 will do it just as well.


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## bulldog1935

above is a modern frame ('92 Viner - 130mm rear dropout spacing)

This is a '77 Raleigh (I cold-set the rear triangles to 126mm to fit 7 gears)
If you're limiting yourself to 122mm or 126mm rear dropout spacing with a 5- to 7sp freewheel,
the best approach is go wide on the freewheel, and use a cyclotouriste triple crank with half-steps and granny ring



this gives you the same kind of range and narrow gear-steps as the newer compact double above, and also uses a road double FD (here's my Shimano 600EX Arabesque FD)
What you do need is a very wide BB spindle (122mm)
Sun XCD makes the crank arms (best price in Japan), and TA still makes the Pro5Vis chainrings (expensive everywhere, but a little cheaper across the pond).
I have a really nice triple ringset 47/42/26 (bolted up sans crank arms) - with wear but very usable - hanging on the pegboard and would entertain selling it. 
The two big rings split the steps between the rear cogs, and here's the gear analysis 
you'll note there are a lot more gear overlaps, but wide range and close steps are there


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## Iverider

I don't understand the want for larger tires. They'll sap your power and require more effort to go forward. I like a cushy tire, but anything more than a 700x38 is overkill even if you're doing a few short single track offroad section. Good start to a bike though!!!


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## bulldog1935

bulldog1935 said:


> I have a really nice triple ringset 47/42/26 (bolted up sans crank arms) - with wear but very usable - hanging on the pegboard and would entertain selling it.



Come to think of it, I have crank arms, too - they don't quite match - the drive is a TA Cyltouriste and the left is a Nervar, both 170mm.


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## bulldog1935

Krautwaggen said:


> I don't understand the want for  larger tires. They'll sap your power and require more effort to go forward. I like a cushy tire, but anything more than a 700x38 is overkill even if you're doing a few short single track offroad section. Good start to a bike though!!!



38s are wonderful on any surface except sand or mud, bigger knobbies will get you into the sand and mud OK.
Even my rated 30mm (measure 33) Strada Biancas are great gravel tires and run very well below 60 psi.
I agree with you, even on 26" tour bikes, most people go anywhere on 1.75" tires.
Here's an active discussion of Thorn Sherpa on iBob
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/internet-bob/TOMj1rt--Uc
and a review of that $1500 tour bike
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/gear/category/bikes/touring/product/review-thorn-cycles-sherpa-09-33983/

ps - the one big advantage to even bigger tires is you can run them at much lower pressures, which makes them less prone to flats 


bulldog1935 said:


> Something to say about soft tires and low pressures. I rode 40 miles today on The Italian Huffy, with the 38mm Compass Barlow Pass.  These tires don't even have a puncture belt.  I picked up a thumbtack in my front tire (40 psi) and heard it going around 1xR. I stopped - it wasn't completely planted, but it was deep. I was spooked pulling it out expecting to hear the air come with it. But it didn't puncture the latex tube.  I've always read that latex would stretch around sharp objects without puncturing.  I made it home, and it's still holding pressure tonight. (Might not have been so kind on the 60psi rear with more of my weight).


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## bikiba

So i settled on the bike. My 1957 Dutch. Been putting about 15miles on it every few days. Tomorrow i am going to take it on a 25miler. Really comfy. Orig everything.

The only changes i am going to make are:
- fix the 3 speed sturmey
- add a back caliper brake off of my 69 raleigh
- fix/cover the seat
- add some racks

i think tht is it...


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## bulldog1935

beauty of a bike.  As long as your ride is peaceful and relatively flat, should do what you're asking.

In the Great Escape, James Coburn made it to Spain 



(this is my favorite mental image of cycling)

of course my gear sets are for hauling load with spin on any terrain where you can keep a bike moving
here's the rest of my Raleigh:


 

 



In the early days of derailleurs, when they were 3- or 4-sp, front double rings were narrow and shifted by a suicide rod  - or stop and shift by hand with no front derailleur (I have friends who still build occasional doubles without FD today).  


alpine tourers would often mix Sturmey hubs with rear derailleurs to get hybrid gearsets with more gear options
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/hybrid-hd.html


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## bikiba

bulldog1935 said:


> beauty of a bike.  As long as your ride is peaceful and relatively flat, should do what you're asking.




the bike looks great. what year is it? And i am assuming the wheelset is new?

i discovered late last night that my bike above is rocking a Sturmey archer TWC. If you read up on these... the short version is they are complete crap-tastic. So i was testing the bike on the bench, shifting gears, braking... and ........ something happened internal and the hub seized... i havent had the time to open it up today, BUT i think i am going to have to upgrade my drive train/gears/crank before my trip


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## bulldog1935

hi bro, frame was made in May'76, I bought in fall '76 in college - bought at Cumberland Transit in Nashville -  though the model is designated '77.
Cutting to the chase, yes, that is a very nice 700c Phil/Synergy freewheel wheelset, 126mm rear axle spacing, that someone had built up a half-dozen years ago for an '80s touring frame project that never took off (he ended up selling frame and wheels to do something different) - brand new and never used, I got a great deal on it.  So yes, I cold-set the rear triangles to fit these wheels (permanently spread from 120mm axle to 126mm).  This was the third rebuild of this bike.  Since new, I've ridden the bike well over 30,000 mi, if not 40,000.
I love the bike, and knocked out 25 hilly miles this morning.





at the same time as the new wheels, the bike got Honjo 43mm fenders, and the 7-sp cyclotouriste drivetrain detailed above
____________________
The bike came with steel rims, and even a steel pan saddle (though that never left the shop - it left the shop new with a suede-covered Unicanitor, which I could ride then, but certainly not now)



If you don't mind the full history, the rebuild process began in '78 when the original splined crank stripped out under me on Austin hills.
First rebuild centered around a new Sugino Mighty crankset, and within the year, I had replaced the steel rims with a new Zeus/Rigida wheelset - alloy, skinny rims, with narrower freewheel (still 5-sp), and Shimano 600 derailleurs (since I didn't need the wide VGT RD, anymore). Other Zeus odds/ends, brake levers and shifters.
In Austin '78 I was buying parts at the UT Co-op bike shop, where the employees were racers, won parts and sold them cheap in the shop
It was basically this form for 25 years, though this is 'the 90s saddle.




Second rebuild still used the same 27-inch Zeus/Rigida wheels 120mm axle from '78
(When I retired the '78 wheels for the new set, they had somewhere 25,000-30,000 mi on them, and at least a half-dozen hub rebuilds, including a set of cones - the Zeus parts interchange with Campagnolo).
The second rebuild centered around cozy Moustache bars with tall stem.  I also went to half-steps on the Sugino crank (46/41T), and a Suntour Ultra 6-sp freewheel (which fits the original 70s axle space).  Nitto front mini rack, and Berthoud decaleur to hold the big front bag.



Point here is you can improve your basic 70s 10-speed simply with chainrings and freewheel.
However, while this was great for cruising on rolling hills, it's still not low enough to comfortably make the steep 400' climb to my house after a long ride, hence the further drivetrain work toward the granny ring.

There's a 2-1/2 Version in there, too, where I went with a used TA crank from ebay and a new wide-spindle SKF BB (these are warrantied for 10 years, so I won't be needing another bottom bracket)



But the used (who knows how used) TA left-side crank eventually broke on me, so I went with the full new drivetrain and new Sun XCD crank + chainrings on the third rebuild around the new wheels and fenders.  Except I've kept the Shimano 600 front derailleur from '78, which is the best front derailleur I have ever used on any bike (Campy included).



The drive-side TA crank is good - I dye-checked it for cracks in the lab (I'm a metallurgist), picked up the NOS left side Nervar arm on ebay and have these (and few other) parts around...
The only original parts left on the bike frame are the Weinmann brake calipers (been through every possible brake pad on these, and found the best brakes ever in Kool Stop Dura cartridges)



But a long history and many miles - I have have two newer bikes I ride hard, also.
(I currently ride at least 60 mi/week, and that's 3000+/yr, and I know I was over 4000 last year)

That nice Sugino crank from '78 ended up on my daughter's go-fast project a few years ago
http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/daughters-modern-build-on-a-vintage-team-fuji.89366/


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## Meekstapher

Very interesting topic and right up my alley. I've got a newer Schwinn Cruiser 7 and I've done some work to specifically for touring. Modern drive train and with the seven speed I'm cruising just fine. I've got frame bags for it and a Brooks saddle. In all honesty it's probably my favorite bike. I'll get some pictures of it and post then up.


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## bulldog1935

looking forward to your photos...

My daughter's upright is a Nexus-8, and this bike would do the job perfectly.
I adjusted the gearing on the bike from city bike to touring bike by changing the front ring from 44T to 42T, and changed the drive cog from 20t to 22t, so it even kept the same chain length.




This gives it 8 gears of 27" (1:1) to 84" - perfect for long-distance touring
Sheldon's gear calculator already has planetary-gear hubs built into it
http://sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html




(Jack Browns in this photo - my daughter hated these tires)
Femders are SKS 50mm
Rear rack is Tubus Vega, front rack is Velo-Orange pass hunter
It currently has Fyxation flat pedals and 42mm Soma SV tires (new tires are not in this photo but small, fast Challenge P-R).


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## Meekstapher

That's a great looking rig. I'm pretty excited I was at the community bike shop here in Tucson yesterday and was able to find a complete thumb shifter and cable for my seven speed so I'll be doing that here in a bit.


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## bulldog1935

take some photos when you get there - we'd like to see it.  
also I am a really good online shopper if you're looking for more outfitting stuff...


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## videoranger

Here's a '85 Raleigh I set up for my son to ride. Polished Campy Victory cranks and Suntour Superbe Pro deraileurs and brakes. It also has clamp-on drop bar ends mounted towards the center of the bars now which work great for hill climbs or going fast. A nice riding touring bike.


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## bulldog1935

looks like a joy to ride


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## bikiba

just completed my 2nd tour. THis time I took a trek antelope with some obvious modicifactions on tires, bars, rack etc. He went 802miles in spain. Just got back Sunday

I started bloggin the adventure. Up to day 3 
http://bombayscorchers.blogspot.com/2018/01/s2-day-3-we-lose-another-one.html


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## Dbubbleguy

I haven't done any touring in a long time but when I did I used my custom 1993 Bike Friday (early model with the double down tubes, frame# 58). Still use the bike for putzing around town and to the park on the Delaware River. Photo is when the bike was new....


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## scooter_trasher

Here's how they built them in 62, oh the fenders are in the attic, I guess it's a rat, bought it to take the Miller generator light off.


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