# Help identifying French frame



## gutholmj (Jul 7, 2019)

Hi, Found this forum while scouring the internet for clues about a french frame that I recently bought. Any thoughts on the identification would be greatly appreciated.

The headset and bottom bracket threading are both french. The whole bike has been repainted and there is chrome on both the stays and fork blades. I can't find any identifying marks on it other than the Campagnolo dropouts and fork ends. The only decals are the 531 decals but give that they are over the spray paint, I don't think they provide much help. Almost everything about it is a really good match for it being an early 70's Gitane Olympic/Super Corsa except one thing. The treatment at the attachment between the stays and dropouts is wedge shaped and every Gitane photo I can find always has a curved cut. Any help is greatly appreciated. No matter the origin, it's going to be built up and ridden but it would be nicety know.


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## juvela (Jul 7, 2019)

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Lugset NERVEX Professional

Shell Gargatte

Is steerer NERVOR?
Most french production frames which are nominally all Reynolds "cheat" and employ a NERVOR steerer for economy.  Gitane no exception in this regard.

Certainly presents as "production" rather than "artisan"

Regarding possible Gitane ID - there is a forum specifically for the marque and in English:

Forum - Gitane USAwww.gitaneusa.com/forum/

Head moderator there is "verktyg";  he will be able to give you solid detailed information regarding the frameset

Appears quite close to 1970

Hope you plan to give it a proper respray...  

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## gutholmj (Jul 7, 2019)

juvela said:


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> 
> Lugset NERVEX Professional
> 
> ...




Thanks. It will be getting a proper paint job. It's being realigned and coldest by a local frame builder. When he looked at it, he thought that the steerer might be 531. It has no markings.

The GitaneUSA forums seem pretty dead but I've been through all the catalogs and photos. The finishing where the stays join the dropouts and fork ends just don't match.


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## juvela (Jul 7, 2019)

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Have you been able to find any traces of original colour, perhaps in spots such as shell interior, head tube interior or steerer?
Appears in imagery that frame resprayed orange and subsequently touched up with brush.

Is head tube seamed?  The typical pattern on these is seamed head tube and NERVOR steerer.  Sould it exhibit a seamless head and Reynolds steerer that would be a surprise and a plus.

The presence of the pentagonal no-slide pibb on the downtube would tend to suggest against a possible Belgian origin,  leaving only Gaul for a homeland.

Have alerted our master frame detective, member @MauriceMoss.  He shall most certainly be able to enlighten...


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## gutholmj (Jul 7, 2019)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> Have you been able to find any traces of original colour, perhaps in spots such as shell interior, head tube interior or steerer?
> 
> ...




Good idea about looking for some traces of the original color. I'll get a change to look at it again early next week. I think that the head tube is seamed but I'll take a better look and try to grab some photos of the steerer.


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## juvela (Jul 7, 2019)

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with regard to head tube -

have you checked interior for any sign of headplate fastener holes being filled?

Gitane pretty much used transfers only on the head

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be aware that frame could be a MICMO product and not be a Gitane, at least nominally

company gained rights to Helyett badge in 1966

also owns Roger Riviere marque, there are probably some others as well...

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is rear spacing still the 120mm original?

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## HARPO (Jul 7, 2019)

I'm wondering why a blind monkey was given a can of orange paint and a brush...


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## juvela (Jul 7, 2019)

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...and i am wondering why the same monkey was subsequently given a can of white paint...


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## HARPO (Jul 7, 2019)

juvela said:


> ------
> 
> ...and i am wondering why the same monkey was subsequently given a can of white paint...
> 
> ...




Different monkey...smaller brush...


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## gutholmj (Jul 11, 2019)

It's hard to tell but it seems like the bike probably was originally orange. The head tube is seamed but there are no markings on the steerer to determine if it is NERVOR. There are no head plate mounting holes.

Everything about it seems Gitane. The one thing I couldn't reconcile was the treatment at the attachment between the stays and dropouts is wedge shaped and every Gitane photo I could find always has a curved cut. That has changed, someone on the Gitane Facebook group provided photos of a Gitane super corsa with Campagnolo dropouts with exactly the same treatment.

Thanks for your help unraveling the mystery.



juvela said:


> ------
> 
> with regard to head tube -
> 
> ...


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## juvela (Jul 11, 2019)

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Good to read you were able to get it sorted.

Have been in agreement right along.

As you probably learned from your researches the Super Corsa model was something created for the North American market and was current ~1968-73.

The parallel domestic model was termed the Olympic.  There was also something called the Super Olympic.

One idea I had was to check the francophone fora.

Unfortunately each example found had the "notched" treatment of the taper tube ends rather than the "chisel" exhibited by your frameset.

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Owned a bespoke built Urago whose constructeur was a builder by the name of "Brookie" (Brouquis? - have only heard his name and not seen it written).  It was quite something.  In about 1970 Nantes was able to lure him away from Nice with better compensation where he worked to construct the true MICMO team cycles.

He was likely building Roma machines right about the time yours was done.

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Keep in mind that while you are satisfied your frameset is a MICMO product it may have been otherwise badged because of the other marques the company owns.

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## corbettclassics (Jul 15, 2019)

I thought “Follis” when I first looked at it but that was just a guess.


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## HARPO (Jul 16, 2019)

Here's my Follis if this helps any...


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## gutholmj (Jul 16, 2019)

Thanks. I think I can rule out Follis due to the lack of any headbadge holes in the frame. Also the workmanship on all the Follis cycles I've seen in photos seems much nicer than my frame. 



HARPO said:


> Here's my Follis if this helps any...


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## corbettclassics (Jul 16, 2019)

I think Follis used a sticker at one time.  Maybe earlier.  I’ll have to search for my photos but may be a while.


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## juvela (Jul 16, 2019)

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Hope you are able to post additional fotos post-respray.

It is a bit of a decision as to whether or not to supply the period correct transfers as they were the awful foil ones.

Perhaps plain would be nicer.

For historicity sake, hope you do not have any braze-ons added - my _deux centimes.  _

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## gutholmj (Jul 16, 2019)

I will definitely post an update with photos when it's complete. Orange, with the foil decals. Looking all the old photos, the foil decals have kinda grown on me. 

I am have braze-ons added though - _désolé_. It's going to be fairly modernized with components coming off my ~75 Champion du Monde that has a cracked head tube. Long story short, I got the Champion du Monde 38 years ago after it sat around in a shop for years and used for parts. It's been through many lives/personalities and tens of thousands of miles. 







juvela said:


> ----
> 
> Hope you are able to post additional fotos post-respray.
> 
> ...


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## Mr.RED (Jul 20, 2019)

Crescent used the exact same orange. I wonder if it could the model below Pepita ?


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## gutholmj (Jul 20, 2019)

Interesting. I didn't think to look at Swedish bikes with possible french threads. I'll have to try and find more photos of different models/years.



Mr.RED said:


> Crescent used the exact same orange. I wonder if it could the model below Pepita ?
> 
> [QOTE]


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## harpon (Jul 20, 2019)

My first guess was also a Gitane Super Corsa- my first full Campy road bike in 1971.  But looking at it further than tube angles don't seem the same-  the seat tube is much more angled back than the steer tube.  It almost looks like a criterium frame with a short rear triangle and possibly a higher bottom bracket, but that was more of a mid-70's frame building thing. The Gitane Super Corsa frame was heavily chromed, in the fork and stay ends, and not likely to disappear without HEAVY removal.

Some Gitanes did come in orange.  Mine was purple and turquoise blue was popular.




'73-74-ish Gitane


The Swedish Crescent above may be more of a match there, but not sue they used French threading.

How about Mercier?  Not familiar with them all that much, but also a prominent French frame in that day.


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## juvela (Jul 22, 2019)

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wrt orange colour -

here are some pictures of an orange Roma lass of Nantes rom right about the time of subject frame.

note how the colour is lighter,  yellower & less saturated than that of the orange MCB 320 frameset posted above.



















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## gutholmj (Jul 22, 2019)

Thank you,

I think most of the angling is just distortion caused by using a cell phone camera. The seat tube and head tube are more parallel. Next time I get a chance I'm going to get a good zero distortion photo and see if I can determine the exact geometry which might allow me to compare with some catalogs. 

This one is chromed under the orange spray paint. I'm not 100% that it started out orange but I can't find any other color under the current orange or overspray inside the tubes other than orange.



harpon said:


> My first guess was also a Gitane Super Corsa- my first full Campy road bike in 1971.  But looking at it further than tube angles don't seem the same-  the seat tube is much more angled back than the steer tube.  It almost looks like a criterium frame with a short rear triangle and possibly a higher bottom bracket, but that was more of a mid-70's frame building thing. The Gitane Super Corsa frame was heavily chromed, in the fork and stay ends, and not likely to disappear without HEAVY removal.
> 
> Some Gitanes did come in orange.  Mine was purple and turquoise blue was popular.
> 
> ...


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## Mr.RED (Jul 26, 2019)

The Crescent frame I owned had a French thread BB not Swiss thread but some Crescents did come with Swiss BB threading I suppose it depends on year.


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## harpon (Jul 27, 2019)

One other thing I've now noticed- the 531 decals are not in French "conuit pourReynolds531" or something like that they read.  So the decals have possibly been reapplied later, and that might more indicate a repaint.  The Orange Interclub above above has the same decals my old Super Corsa had, except for the downtube denoting the model- and those foil decals were very fragile, so I'm amazed the interclub are still in that condition- after mine were fairly scratched from hard racing, I replaced them with the style of the then-current decals as seen on the turquoise bike- there was no internet then, and not sure how I even got ahold of those.

anyway, sorry.  No further clues as to the identity of your orange bike.


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## juvela (Jul 27, 2019)

Mr.RED said:


> The Crescent frame I owned had a French thread BB not Swiss thread but some Crescents did come with Swiss BB threading I suppose it depends on year.




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The MCB lugged road models were somewhat unusual with their employment of metric and swiss shells paired with BSC tubesets  Steerers always 25.4mm,  top tubes always 25.4mm, down and seat tubes always 28.6mm.

Subject frameset is _all_ metric:  25.0mm steerer, 26.0mm top tube, 28.0mm down and seat tubes.

It bears no relation to any MCB product.

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## hopkintonbike (Oct 9, 2019)

Did not see a stamped serial no on the frame, when you stripped the paint look for 2 holes filled with braze in the BB, and then check for Manufacturers who used a riveted on plate like Peugeot did for a while, also, measure the head and seat tube angles and compare to manufacturers specifications, that might tell you who built the frame, finally, with the hole in the tube joining the stays, this might be a nice rondo model, Todd


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## HPL (Oct 23, 2019)

gutholmj said:


> Hi, Found this forum while scouring the internet for clues about a french frame that I recently bought. Any thoughts on the identification would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> The headset and bottom bracket threading are both french. The whole bike has been repainted and there is chrome on both the stays and fork blades. I can't find any identifying marks on it other than the Campagnolo dropouts and fork ends. The only decals are the 531 decals but give that they are over the spray paint, I don't think they provide much help. Almost everything about it is a really good match for it being an early 70's Gitane Olympic/Super Corsa except one thing. The treatment at the attachment between the stays and dropouts is wedge shaped and every Gitane photo I can find always has a curved cut. Any help is greatly appreciated. No matter the origin, it's going to be built up and ridden but it would be nicety know.
> 
> ...



I will take a look at my Crescent Pepitas and see how they match up. I know my frames have Nervex Pro lugs on the head tube, but might be a lower model. They do have French threads. My only other French or French threaded bikes are a Cazenave and another Nervex frame, make unknown.


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## juvela (Oct 23, 2019)

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For any readers wishing to investigate a Gitane cycle, known or suspected, this catalogue archive may be a helpful resource.   Organized on a year-by-year basis -

https://labibleduvelocataloguesgitane.blogspot.com/p/gitane-1971.html


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