# Pre War Elgin?



## Cornelius00 (May 29, 2019)

I just picked what I was told a prewar Elgin. I’ve looked at the bottom bracket serial number and I really could not find any information that could help me out to determine it. But I really love the frame, the front forks look to be roached and there seems to be a poor welding job as well as they are bent. The frame seems pretty fine, there is no head badge. Does anybody have any clue of what year exactly this could be? Thanks.


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## SKPC (May 29, 2019)

Looks similar to this Great Western Manufacturing Hawthorne..


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## Cornelius00 (May 29, 2019)

I wish I could find a complete bike like that, its beautiful and it does look pretty similar, the only really notable differences I see is the crank and the distance between the two top tubes where the tank would be .. it looks like the great western might be about an inch or so lower


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## Archie Sturmer (Jun 2, 2019)

I am also thinking GWM.  Seen the other Elgin post; does the head tube have holes for fastening a badge, (or the badge itself).
Often the top 3 areas to check might be the badge, serial number, and chain ring.
GWM had the 8-point snowflake chain ring, (from Reading Standard), used letters in its serial numbers, and often had 2-3/4” spacing between the badge holes.
The top tube on the frame also appears to have a gradual bend, instead of a distinct kink at one point, suggesting GWM.

Sears had various bike manufacturers supply their Elgin bicycles.  GWM was closed about 10 years before that other thread’s middle 1930’s Elgin bike was built.
Montgomery Ward also sold Hawthorne bikes with the 8-point snowflake.


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## Brutuskend (Jun 2, 2019)

The good news is (other than it's a cool old frame) the older NOS tanks being sold here and on Ebay should fit right on there. I bought one for my elgin, but the frame is different and I will have to modify it pretty extensively to get it to work and look right on my frame. 


http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=143235783779


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## Cornelius00 (Jun 2, 2019)

Well..I have to say..you guys are a great help..it looks almost identical in frame geometry and shape, rear stays, crank and tank height and length to the early 1930s Hawthorne’s..so the other question is this..is it a 28”? Or 26”..I think 1935 was a transition year for a lot of bicycles to balloon tire..here a pic of the seat tube length ..


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## Archie Sturmer (Jun 2, 2019)

Yes, 26” reflects later— and in the early 1930s, Montgomery Ward had a 26” balloon tire bike.  Not sure who made them, perhaps HP Snyder or Shelby?


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## Archie Sturmer (Jun 5, 2019)

Looks a lot like this unknown "I" serial red frame; with badge holes a 32nd over 2-5/16" (were Shelby bikes ever about 2-5/16"?).



Maybe check for 1/4-26tpi British thread chain adjusters used on some pre-war bikes.


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## Cornelius00 (Jun 5, 2019)

I’m going to be selling the bike and post it in the for sale section..thanks to all who’ve helped identify the bike..


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## Archie Sturmer (Jun 9, 2019)

Another method of measuring, may be at the front fork; a 28" tire/wheel needs a good 15" between the fork crown and the axle holes.
A 26" balloon tire/wheel needs a good 1/4" minimum clearance on both sides, for about 2-3/4" unbent fork width, at about 12" from axle.
Similar clearance is required on the frame, at the seat stays., tire fully inflated, and axle fully inserted in the fork.

Also, your bike looks like both this GWM "Adlake" and a (smaller-frame) 1927 H.P. Snyder bike.



Not sure if Homer Peter Snyder acquired GWM in the 1920's.



Hope these help, rather than add to the uncertainty.


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