# just pcked up a early pierce bicycle today.... :)



## redline1968 (Mar 29, 2012)

just picked this up today  i cant date it but it looks like early 1900's with a few newer parts on it. the paint is excelent original  with the original decal on it.  it has great rims with the stripes and N.O.S YES!!! THATS ---N.O.S WHITE WALL SINGLE TUBE TIRES!!! how rare is that, not a crack and holds up great!!! the new departure hubs are in excelent original condition as are the grips. has all the nickel on it. the seat might be original? the peddals are #22 persons? the bars im not so sure about and the goose neck looks newer so are the peddals. any idea on the date and are these parts original to it.   it isn't a indian tank but compensates for one  thanks.


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## redline1968 (Mar 29, 2012)

more pics on the tires


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## Dave K (Mar 29, 2012)

Wow that bike is amazing.  Great find


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## bricycle (Mar 29, 2012)

VERY nice!!! I believe everything could be original but the stem and pedals?
I have a ladies version of that if you are interested...Decent black paint and same badge. bri.


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## redline1968 (Mar 29, 2012)

thanks i love it, its not the  most exciting in  frame design but the original condition really rocks. date? anybody?


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## bricycle (Mar 29, 2012)

redline1968 said:


> thanks i love it, its not the  most exciting in  frame design but the original condition really rocks. date? anybody?




I would say turn of century to 1908.  Maybe check The Wheelmen site.


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## redline1968 (Mar 29, 2012)

my thoughts excatly. i was thinking early 1900's. what kind of goose neck and i could not remove those grips to replace it anyhow.


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## dfa242 (Mar 29, 2012)

Does the badge say Buffalo or Angola?  I believe the Buffalo manufacturing runs were pre-1916 or so, but the Wheelmen could certainly confirm that.


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## redline1968 (Mar 29, 2012)

it says buffalo ny. i looked a little and found out the nd brake came out in 1899.  turns out to be more interesting than i thought.


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## chitown (Mar 29, 2012)

*Great Score!*

Beautiful condition. 

Here's a pic from 1915 catalog:

View attachment 47213

Fork should be all nickel. Does it look like the fork has been painted?

I thought those style rims came about in the early teens? not sure on that though.

Great find!

Add correct stem and pedals and you have one nice original ride there.


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## redline1968 (Mar 29, 2012)

thank you.  it has no repaints at all and never had fenders on it.  there are no provisions for them. this is all original.  im sure the neck and bars, peds are not right. i would like to replace the bars and neck but the grips are tight anybody know how to remove them safely?


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## chitown (Mar 29, 2012)

No fender mounts?... Light Roadster or Racer maybe?

View attachment 47223

1908 Racer with unreal racer tires.

View attachment 47224


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## redline1968 (Mar 29, 2012)

sweet racer...  the 08 racer looks dead on but no nickel fork and there is a lock nut for the seat tube.  it could be a light weight. the tires are larger than track but smaller than others ive seen could be earlier than 08.


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## dfa242 (Mar 30, 2012)

Very cool bike indeed.  Did you notice the serial number?  I've got an 1899 Pierce and it's stamped on the seat post like an Iver Johnson.  One of the Wheelmen should be able to narrow it down with that.


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## redline1968 (Mar 30, 2012)

i looked. its on the rear drop out an odd place to be? it is a X1462619 ON IT. thanks


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## dfa242 (Mar 30, 2012)

Interesting - seems odd to me but I'm no Pierce expert.



redline1968 said:


> i looked. its on the rear drop out an odd place to be? it is a X1462619 ON IT. thanks


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## redline1968 (Mar 30, 2012)

yes it is,  i did not know there was such a history with the company also.


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## dfa242 (Mar 30, 2012)

For some interesting reading, Chapter 6 of Carl Burgwardt's book "Buffalo's Bicycles" includes a nice history of Pierce and his bicycle business before he moved on to motorcycles and automobiles.  Here's the serial number on mine.


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## redline1968 (Mar 30, 2012)

thanks ill look that up.   the photo looks like a nice original paint. love the color.  let see the bike if you can.


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## dfa242 (Mar 30, 2012)

It's hard to get at right now but I'll dig it out and take some pics soon - it's a rear steering tandem.


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## scrubbinrims (Mar 30, 2012)

I know very little about this genre of bicycles, but I know a good one when I see it, and that's a good one with skins to die for.
Congrats, Chris


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## redline1968 (Mar 30, 2012)

thank you.  i agree . those tires are super cool and better in person .   i would love to see the tandem


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## dfa242 (Mar 30, 2012)

redline1968 said:


> thank you.  i agree . those tires are super cool and better in person .   i would love to see the tandem




Here are a few pics to give you the flavor of the original paint - I'll take some better ones when I get it down and out in the open.


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## redline1968 (Mar 30, 2012)

WOW! that one nice tandem and the stripes are awsome.  yes more pics that is a beaut!


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## filmonger (Mar 31, 2012)

*Fantastic find*

Wooooow ...... Lucky man.  I have been looking for a pierce for years now 







redline1968 said:


> just picked this up today  i cant date it but it looks like early 1900's with a few newer parts on it. the paint is excelent original  with the original decal on it.  it has great rims with the stripes and N.O.S YES!!! THATS ---N.O.S WHITE WALL SINGLE TUBE TIRES!!! how rare is that, not a crack and holds up great!!! the new departure hubs are in excelent original condition as are the grips. has all the nickel on it. the seat might be original? the peddals are #22 persons? the bars im not so sure about and the goose neck looks newer so are the peddals. any idea on the date and are these parts original to it.   it isn't a indian tank but compensates for one  thanks.


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## bricycle (Mar 31, 2012)

dfa242 said:


> Here are a few pics to give you the flavor of the original paint - I'll take some better ones when I get it down and out in the open.
> 
> View attachment 47291View attachment 47292View attachment 47293View attachment 47294View attachment 47295




That tandem is to die for...


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## redline1968 (Mar 31, 2012)

filmonger said:


> Wooooow ...... Lucky man.  I have been looking for a pierce for years now




thank you. it just showed up on thursday. i really thought it was later than the teens but now im sure its around 1900 and the light weight roadster with optional brake setup is a supprize to me. here's a couple of pics all cleaned and waxed up


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## vw00794 (Apr 1, 2012)

WOW what a great bike. It seems like the tires would be harder to find than the bike! I just finished restoring  a Pierce suspension fork which was hard to polish in between the leafs.
The logo on your  down tube is awesome! Go get em' tiger!


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## redline1968 (Apr 1, 2012)

thank you. definately, id say the tires are rare. ive seen them rotted all the time and this is the first for me all these years. im sure there are a few out there but not many. i wish the decal was a little better but it is cool.


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## Larmo63 (Apr 3, 2012)

We just cranked a set of wood grips off of some bars, penetrating oil and muscle power. 

The bike most likely had rat traps too.......?  Cool bike!


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## redline1968 (Apr 3, 2012)

thanks ill try it. scared to break them off. im going to try conditioning them also.


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## twowheelfan (May 14, 2012)

i cant seem to see pictures! i would love to see the pics of yours!
i came late to this thread! i have one pierce hygienic cushion, chain rive, rigid front fork, no serial number. and what i think is  Frank Kramer Special with serial number on the drop out.


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## redline1968 (May 15, 2012)

i mistakenly deleated all the photos and just been lazy to repost them but i will post them today. sorry.  well got them for you. they are better pics than the others anyhow. still like to see what the original goose neck and bars looks like.  i know they should look like the track bike but there are different styles.


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## redline1968 (May 15, 2012)

some more pics.  like to see yours also.


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## dfa242 (May 16, 2012)

Still can't believe how beautiful the condition is - _*man*, _that's a nice bike!


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## redline1968 (May 16, 2012)

i agree, the condition makes it hard to beleive its from 1898 to 00's and those tires are as soft like it was never outside.


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## twowheelfan (May 16, 2012)

*that really is a beaut!*

the serial number on my Frank Kramer Special is 178873. i cant really figure out the serial number thing on these. the emblem cycles(angola) for the most part have typical numbers on the BB. but the buffalo ones appear on the drop out, and that once (that ive seen online) on the seat tube like IJ or they just dont have one(my cushion, chain). yours is the first one that ive seen that has numberswhere mine are. however, they look to be a different stamp style. i dont understand. its funny, the pierce car guys bought all the records for them and have them archived, i wonder what they did with the cycle part of the records? here is a link to a 1916ish catalog if you dont already have it. 
https://proteanpaper.com/scart_resu...tall=&skey=&srkeyall=NEW&srkeywords=&srcateg=
it has dimsions and such so you might be able to narrow it down pretty good.
again, i'm chiming in pretty late, so.
real nice bike! and thanks for sharing.


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## redline1968 (May 16, 2012)

thank you, i'll look into it. i like to research these things they are cool bikes. well i looked at the catalog.  btw what a great catalog!  definately a racer/light roadster but the bars/neck are gone on mine.


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## twowheelfan (May 16, 2012)

*by this catalog,*



redline1968 said:


> thank you, i'll look into it. i like to research these things they are cool bikes. well i looked at the catalog.  btw what a great catalog!  definately a racer/light roadster but the bars/neck are gone on mine.




if the paint is all original, you have a two piece hanger roadster model, 20 , 21, 22, or 24 (depending on dimension of your frame) they are the ones with painted over nickel forks. the only difference is that you have an earlier threaded collar seat post and fender holes. i would say it most definately dates before this 1916 catalog. probably T.O.C.  if the chain and hub is original. check for a label on the rim. i know that there was a fire at the lobdell/american rim factory in 1926 and the address changed from Onaway to Alma. If the rims say lobdell or american rims Alma MI then they are replacements, or at least after 1926. 
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dunn/Onaway/lobdell.htm
the stem and bars were probably replaced/added for comfort riding around on the dirt roads when the kid finally had to use it to commute. (IMHO)


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## redline1968 (May 17, 2012)

yep everything is original including the paint. it's the model 21.  the seat post tube measures out to 21 inches. i think but not sure that is could be closer to 1898 to 1900 in date.  no fender holes or no places for fenders at all. i love to see what the goose neck would look like. it might be possible that the rims were added later but they match the bike. i googled frank kramer and there is  photo of a peirce track  bike with painted front fork.  interesting history on that dude.


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## twowheelfan (May 17, 2012)

*heres a picture of the one on my FKS*



redline1968 said:


> yep everything is original including the paint. it's the model 21.  the seat post tube measures out to 21 inches. i think but not sure that is could be closer to 1898 to 1900 in date.  no fender holes or no places for fenders at all. i love to see what the goose neck would look like. it might be possible that the rims were added later but they match the bike.









i posted some pics in the gallery of mine.
http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/album.php?albumid=924
the stem on my earlier cushion drive is similar to the columbia stem. it mounts the bars directly over the fork with no fwd or drop. the difference is that instead of the expanding portion splitting into two sections like the others ive seen, they split into three like some IJ stems that ive seen. i think most of the buffalo pierce bikes had all pure pierce parts except for hoops, pedals, seat and bars. i think they held a lot of patents.
the ND model A hub from the cushion chain drive says ND And Pierce on the brake arm, but i know from the literature that there were pierce hubs, which i suspect were on my FKS originally, but i think that somewhere in time mine were swapped for a coaster brake as the bars and wheels from my example seem of the same age and definately newer than the frame set. this is what i think might have happened to yours(?)


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## redline1968 (May 17, 2012)

wow cool goose neck. i think you are right they look replaced for comfort. the fit is tight for the tires. sh----t now i have to find the right parts!  never ends i tell ya... here are some pics of the hub and stuff. how the bb got in here i dont know


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## twowheelfan (May 17, 2012)

if you come across anything about the frank kramer bike or the story about our serial numbers in your research please fwd to me.
pictures, catalogs anything. i am looking for kind of the same things you are so you know, if you find TWO remember me!
Thanks!
if you wan any specific images of mine for reference  i would gladly take them for you.
T


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## redline1968 (May 17, 2012)

sure, funny thing is, i have some track parts (rims set) for early track bikes. im glad i kept them.


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## twowheelfan (May 17, 2012)

redline1968 said:


> sure, funny thing is, i have some track parts (rims set) for early track bikes. im glad i kept them.




i think i remember several pictures of old track bikes in that same back ground!


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## redline1968 (May 17, 2012)

just reposted them on my gallery page.


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## twowheelfan (May 17, 2012)

*thanks for reposting!*

im a big fan. you have a nice stable. some choice rides!


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## redline1968 (May 17, 2012)

thank you, but i've see better on this site.


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## redline1968 (May 18, 2012)

after some research i have discovered that the bike dates around 1900. and looking at a few bikes i feel that the rims and hubs are original to it.  they match it too well to be different.  I still have to find more information though.  i discovered that they used the most up to date componets and parts available at the time so could there be a change in the new departure using the only the nd logo instead of the pierce logo with it? like a transitional period for them.


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## Echo_Delta (Nov 17, 2012)

*Pierce Tandem*



dfa242 said:


> Here are a few pics to give you the flavor of the original paint - I'll take some better ones when I get it down and out in the open.
> 
> View attachment 47291View attachment 47292View attachment 47293View attachment 47294View attachment 47295




I own 2 Pierce Bicycles... A 1908 Cushion and a yet to be determined Angola Pierce.

Did you ever get time to take some Tandem pictures?  Your's looks like a nice one.


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