# New Member Intro and a 1942? Snyder Built Black Beauty Ballooner



## the_undecider (Oct 2, 2022)

Hey all, I just picked up a bike yesterday and wanted to play show and tell as well as try to get a bit more info.

I've dabbled with a few 50's and 60's middleweights and ballooners, but this is certainly the oldest bike I've bought. I mostly mess with 80's-90's moubtain bikes because I'm a young-ish fellow in my early 40's. It was a Facespace Marketplace find and I wasn't really looking for something like this...just thought it was neat and it seemed to be relatively complete and original looking.

It has the D.P.H. Mfg Co. New York Black Beauty badge. From what I could gather, this is a H.P. Snyder built frame and has 24EH stamped on tge BB, so I believe that puts it at 1942 which seems to be the first year for the curved downtube frames. Rear facing drops, 5 arm chainwheel, and the general looks seem early 40's to me. It does have a 1950 El Paso locense tag, but that certainly could have been installed anytime after the built was built. Looks like it spent much of its life in El Paso as the seller is from there and had just brought it to my area of Texas.

I am thinking this is an original paint bike with original U.S. Royal Chain tires (totally roached) and the saddle looks original. Is it missing a tank? Seems odd to have the fancy springer fork and fender light without a tank or also a rear rack. I'm not planning to bring it back to factory original specs. 

Other than finding some grips and replacing the tires so it at least rolls, I like it as-is other than cleaning some of the rust and scale. Not planning on making it a rider, but I want it to more or less be rideable.

Other than tracking down some useable vintage tires, are there any reasonably priced repops worth looking into? I feel like this bike is worthy of more than some Kenda or Sunlite brand tire.


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## Freqman1 (Oct 2, 2022)

John’s repo Chain Treads are the go-to tires.


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## the_undecider (Oct 2, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> John’s repo Chain Treads are the go-to tires.



I saw some of those in an old thread, wonder if they're still available?


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## Freqman1 (Oct 2, 2022)

the_undecider said:


> I saw some of those in an old thread, wonder if they're still available?



Pretty sure they are.


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## HEMI426 (Oct 2, 2022)

That's the bike we were talking about in the thread Black Beauty what's it's value yesterday and this morning.


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## New Mexico Brant (Oct 2, 2022)

Welcome to the CABE.  Very cool Black Beauty.  Shawn is spot on, go with John's tires.


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## the_undecider (Oct 2, 2022)

HEMI426 said:


> That's the bike we were talking about in the thread Black Beauty what's it's value yesterday and this morning.



It is. I don't know if you saw my reply there. I feel bad for the guy if he was working on buying it, but I had no way of knowing about that.


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## the_undecider (Oct 2, 2022)

New Mexico Brant said:


> Welcome to the CABE.  Very cool Black Beauty.  Shawn is spot on, go with John's tires.



I found John's email in one of the tire sale threads, so I hope to hear back on the message I sent him. Those will be so much nicer than some cheap Kendas.


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## nightrider (Oct 2, 2022)

Why wouldn't you make it a rider? Or did I mis-read that. Beautiful bike, and I bet it would ride fantastic with a set of Johns tires!


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## the_undecider (Oct 2, 2022)

nightrider said:


> Why wouldn't you make it a rider? Or did I mis-read that. Beautiful bike, and I bet it would ride fantastic with a set of Johns tires!



Too small for me to comfortably ride, but I want it to be able to be rideable...short distances.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Oct 2, 2022)

how tall are you? the guy I bought this from was like 6' 3"...


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## the_undecider (Oct 2, 2022)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> how tall are you? the guy I bought this from was like 6' 3"...
> 
> View attachment 1705831







I'm 6'1". This is what I had to do to make a Typhoon fit me, baby ape hangers and a booger welded layback seatpost. That was a fun bike!

Even if I flipped the Lucky 7 post around, it wouldn't be long enough for me to have any decent leg extension.

There's a good chance this bike will end up hanging on my wall, anyway.


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## the_undecider (Oct 4, 2022)

Does anybody have any recommendation for what might have been an original style grip for this bike? I was thinking Coke bottle grips, but I am sure there are other styles that might work, but I am just not knowledgeable on where to go to find these other than classifieds here or ebay. Thanks!


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## 1817cent (Oct 4, 2022)

Welcome to the Cabe.  Great colors on that bike!  Very nice!!


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## fordmike65 (Oct 4, 2022)

the_undecider said:


> Too small for me to comfortably ride, but I want it to be able to be rideable...short distances.



That looks like the optional 20" frame. I had a '46 which I regret selling, but still have my '41 tall frame SamSco. Great riders for my 6'4" stature.


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## the_undecider (Oct 4, 2022)

fordmike65 said:


> That looks like the optional 20" frame. I had a '46 which I regret selling, but still have my '41 tall frame SamSco. Great riders for my 6'4" stature.
> 
> View attachment 1706613
> 
> View attachment 1706614




Well color me impressed by your keen eye! I assumed it was a regular size frame because it looks small compared to all my big 29er and 27.5" mountain bikes. Put a tape measure to it and, sure enough, 20 inch frame! 

Those bigger frames were probably a little less common, weren't they?


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## fordmike65 (Oct 4, 2022)

the_undecider said:


> Well color me impressed by your keen eye! I assumed it was a regular size frame because it looks small compared to all my big 29er and 27.5" mountain bikes. Put a tape measure to it and, sure enough, 20 inch frame!
> 
> Those bigger frames were probably a little less common, weren't they?



Not quite as common or popular, since the taller frames don't tend to have the sleek, streamlined lines of their shorter counterparts. For me it's a necessity, so I really have no choice. I collect taller framed ballooners almost exclusively.


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## the_undecider (Oct 5, 2022)

I love these before and after transformations. Can't wait to dig into more stuff!


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## Pedals Past (Oct 8, 2022)

I have some all red bf goodrich and some green ww chain tread left i have to
look to see if i have any of his ww or bw


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## the_undecider (Oct 9, 2022)

Pedals Past said:


> I have some all red bf goodrich and some green ww chain tread left i have to
> look to see if i have any of his ww or bw



I ordered some of Coker Tire's NOS Schwinn Typhoon Cords because they were pretty cheap, but I'd be interested in a set of chain tread black walls if you have any. Thanks!


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## razinhellcustomz (Oct 9, 2022)

the_undecider said:


> View attachment 1705840
> 
> I'm 6'1". This is what I had to do to make a Typhoon fit me, baby ape hangers and a booger welded layback seatpost. That was a fun bike!
> 
> ...



Do like I did and go buy some 5/8" round stock and make up a longer seat post... Easy fix... RideOn...Mark..


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## BF2485 (Oct 11, 2022)

the_undecider said:


> I love these before and after transformations. Can't wait to dig into more stuff!View attachment 1707423
> 
> View attachment 1707424
> 
> View attachment 1707425



what is the secret ? Evapo rust ??


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## the_undecider (Oct 11, 2022)

BF2485 said:


> what is the secret ? Evapo rust ??



Evaporust is no secret, right?


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## razinhellcustomz (Oct 11, 2022)

the_undecider said:


> Evaporust is no secret, right?



No, just expensive... My go to is apple cider vinegar, does the same thing and a gallon is a fraction of the price...


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## rustjunkie (Oct 11, 2022)

nice gearing on that.
if you want it to roll really quick & easy and ride well consider a pair of schwalbe fat frank tires


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## the_undecider (Oct 11, 2022)

razinhellcustomz said:


> No, just expensive... My go to is apple cider vinegar, does the same thing and a gallon is a fraction of the price...



I like the Evaporust because it's fast (and I'm impatient) and it lasts a long time, so I can reuse the same liquid on multiple items. A gallon jug is about $25, but it lasts a really long time for me.


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## fordmike65 (Oct 12, 2022)

I kinda dig the patina, so I would have just cleaned the bike & lubed the drivetrain. All the plating is gone, so now its obvious the pedal was stripped. Just my 2c.


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## razinhellcustomz (Oct 12, 2022)

the_undecider said:


> I like the Evaporust because it's fast (and I'm impatient) and it lasts a long time, so I can reuse the same liquid on multiple items. A gallon jug is about $25, but it lasts a really long time for me.



Wow, that's pretty cheap not as cheap as cider vinegar that iv'e had and been using for over 3 years at $4.99 a gallon .....


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## the_undecider (Oct 12, 2022)

fordmike65 said:


> I kinda dig the patina, so I would have just cleaned the bike & lubed the drivetrain. All the plating is gone, so now its obvious the pedal was stripped. Just my 2c.



I wanted all of the drivetrain to be clean. Still plenty of patina left. I think it's going to look  amazing when I am done.


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## the_undecider (Oct 12, 2022)

razinhellcustomz said:


> Wow, that's pretty cheap not as cheap as cider vinegar that iv'e had and been using for over 3 years at $4.99 a gallon .....



Time is money


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## razinhellcustomz (Oct 12, 2022)

the_undecider said:


> Time is money



Hey if you like that i got some artificial piss that i'll sell you for $60.00 a pint... Comes in handy for piss tests at work...


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## the_undecider (Oct 12, 2022)

razinhellcustomz said:


> Hey if you like that i got some artificial piss that i'll sell you for $60.00 a pint... Comes in handy for piss tests at work...



They sell that at the corner store...


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## the_undecider (Oct 12, 2022)

Some progress...got the rear hub cleaned and rebuilt and a new tire mounted. I'm a little bummed I haven't been able to find a set of the original chain tread tires, but I found some cool reproduction Schwinn Typhoon Cords from @cokertireco (these are fairly old new stock they still have in inventory). Waiting on a new axle and axle nuts for the front hub.


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## razinhellcustomz (Oct 12, 2022)

the_undecider said:


> Some progress...got the rear hub cleaned and rebuilt and a new tire mounted. I'm a little bummed I haven't been able to find a set of the original chain tread tires, but I found some cool reproduction Schwinn Typhoon Cords from @cokertireco (these are fairly old new stock they still have in inventory). Waiting on a new axle and axle nuts for the front hub.View attachment 1711265
> 
> View attachment 1711266
> 
> ...



I have 4 sets of these tires and have had one problem with one tire bead not seating properly that the tire blew out along the bead.. These tires seem to work best on s2 rims as the beads are dry and crumbly when mounting other wise these are really nice tires...


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## Freqman1 (Oct 12, 2022)

the_undecider said:


> Some progress...got the rear hub cleaned and rebuilt and a new tire mounted. I'm a little bummed I haven't been able to find a set of the original chain tread tires, but I found some cool reproduction Schwinn Typhoon Cords from @cokertireco (these are fairly old new stock they still have in inventory). Waiting on a new axle and axle nuts for the front hub.View attachment 1711265
> 
> View attachment 1711266
> 
> ...



John is out of Chain Treads?


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## the_undecider (Oct 12, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> John is out of Chain Treads?



Not sure. He hasn't responded to email or PM.


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## the_undecider (Oct 13, 2022)

razinhellcustomz said:


> I have 4 sets of these tires and have had one problem with one tire bead not seating properly that the tire blew out along the bead.. These tires seem to work best on s2 rims as the beads are dry and crumbly when mounting other wise these are really nice tires...



I noticed the same. I ended up swapping that tire to the front rim and it's holding. I was careful inflating them slowly and making sure the bead was even all the way around both sides. If I was going to ride this bike more than up and down the street, I'd probably find some different shoes for it. I won't put more than 25 psi in them.


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## the_undecider (Oct 13, 2022)

Inching closer...


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## the_undecider (Oct 13, 2022)

Signs of life!



Went up and down the street sice and slow, but I'm awaiting a couple bits of hardware to finish up the front end. To think, maybe this bike hasn't been ridden in 60-70 years, it's pretty nifty!


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## razinhellcustomz (Oct 14, 2022)

the_undecider said:


> I noticed the same. I ended up swapping that tire to the front rim and it's holding. I was careful inflating them slowly and making sure the bead was even all the way around both sides. If I was going to ride this bike more than up and down the street, I'd probably find some different shoes for it. I won't put more than 25 psi in them.



I put around 40-45 psi on my tires and they ride great.. I like a little firmer ride and they pedal alot easier too... Your Black Beauty is coming along ways since you started.. RideOn...


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## the_undecider (Oct 14, 2022)

razinhellcustomz said:


> I put around 40-45 psi on my tires and they ride great.. I like a little firmer ride and they pedal alot easier too... Your Black Beauty is coming along ways since you started.. RideOn...








I won't be running this one at 45 psi...

This is the same tire that blew off the rim. It seemed ok when I seapped it to the front rim. Last night, I had it at maybe 25 psi and saw the bead starting to creep off. Deflated  reseated, and inflated back to 20 psi. Noticed the casing separating this morning. Looks like this tire is only good for a display bike at low pressure. I did buy 2 sets of these, so I have spares, but it's a bummer. Wish I had the chain treads.


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## razinhellcustomz (Oct 14, 2022)

the_undecider said:


> View attachment 1712234
> I won't be running this one at 45 psi...
> 
> This is the same tire that blew off the rim. It seemed ok when I seapped it to the front rim. Last night, I had it at maybe 25 psi and saw the bead starting to creep off. Deflated  reseated, and inflated back to 20 psi. Noticed the casing separating this morning. Looks like this tire is only good for a display bike at low pressure. I did buy 2 sets of these, so I have spares, but it's a bummer. Wish I had the chain treads.



Wow, this is a new swipe on these tires that I have not seen before.. Would Coker make good on a replacement for this BADD tire or would you have to eat the cost? This really sucks man...


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## the_undecider (Oct 14, 2022)

razinhellcustomz said:


> Wow, this is a new swipe on these tires that I have not seen before.. Would Coker make good on a replacement for this BADD tire or would you have to eat the cost? This really sucks man...



They're pretty clear that these NOS tires aren't guaranteed and that they recommend them for display purposes. When I spoke to them on the phone, they reiterated that. I suspect this carcass damage may be been caused when the tire blew off the rim the first time when the tube exploded.


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## the_undecider (Oct 14, 2022)

Well, it's pretty dang close to being done. Took these pics this morning before I saw the split tire casing and before my NOS front axle and axle nuts showed up. The original axle was pretty chewed up on the ends from someone using incorrect bolts. Got the axle and nuts swapped and installed another one of my questionable Coker "NOS" repop Schwinn Typhoon treads. This one did feel like it fit the rim maybe just a tad better (or I'm just being optimistic).

All that is left is to swap some thinner jam nuts on the springer knee lever pivot. The outer nuts are only threaded halfway on and the nuts I ordered are going to be just what it needs. I grabbed what I could find in the hardware aisle to replace some missing bits just to get the springer functioning. Whoever messed with this thing however many years ago just threw a single bolt on top of the fender stay and truss rod end and jammed it down tight, so there was no pivot action at all. I'm just happy the pivot bolts and brass spacers that go between the knee levers and the forķ were still there. Who knows how hard those would have been to track down!


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