# 65 years old



## TR6SC (Apr 20, 2018)

Got this this morning from a guy who bought it when he was 15. It was for his Raleigh. 



It's still usable. On my way home to try it out.


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 20, 2018)

I hunt down the Mucilin tins that old on ebay for fly fishing braided butt leaders.  They're made from real mucilin - deer tallow - and do the job of floating the leader butt much better than the newer synthetic replacement.


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## TR6SC (Apr 20, 2018)

Mucilaginous: 15th century Latin word for mucus, gelatinous.


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## GTs58 (Apr 20, 2018)

TR6SC said:


> Mucilaginous: 15th century Latin word for mucus, gelatinous.




Ya, put that stuff on your saddle and sit on it.


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 21, 2018)

bringing the IQ of this thread back up a little (and removed from jail showers), Proofide is not the best choice for your leather saddles (Years of sweat experience on leather saddles).

Obenauf's LP is the stuff - it has a Much higher ratio of beeswax than Proofide - so much so that it smells like honey instead of neatsfoot oil.


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## TR6SC (Apr 21, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> bringing the IQ of this thread back up a little, Proofide is not the best choice for your leather saddles (Years of sweat experience on leather saddles).
> 
> Obenauf's LP is the stuff - it has a Much higher ratio of beeswax than Proofide - so much so that it smells like honey instead of neatsfood oil.
> 
> View attachment 792384



Well let's hear more about this. Here's a stiff, dry, brittle leather pouch. I can't open it due to the probability that it will crumble. Obenauf makes an oil in addition to their wax. This might be the ticket. Any thoughts?


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 21, 2018)

TR6SC said:


> Well let's hear more about this. Here's a stiff, dry, brittle leather pouch. I can't open it due to the probability that it will crumble. Obenauf makes an oil in addition to their wax. This might be the ticket. Any thoughts?
> View attachment 792398



My thought is you to begin with the oil for restoration - you have to make what's left of the leather soft (and tough) again. 
Next application, though, should be the LP with more beeswax for sealing.


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## harpon (Apr 21, 2018)

Hate to be the rote internet naysayer, but IMHO Brooks saddles, and all leather saddles from that unfortunate butt hurt era, are over rated and really suck quite a bit, and no proof here about the fide thing seabiscuit.


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 21, 2018)

not so, the proof is in distance riding, and my 6000+ mi/yr says it's so
It only takes a few minutes hanging around groups of cyclists to hear tales of need to try another new saddle, diaper, chaffing cream.
There's an entire industry built up around support for ill effects of padded saddles.
Every cross-multiple-states supported distance ride stops in any bike shop in every town for people to buy a different new saddle, diaper, chaffing cream.

People who ride distance on Brooks saddles can wear their canvas shorts, because they're not sitting on a (soggy) blanket that moves to press against every soft tissue that you're actually not sitting on - - even (especially) gel is a huge heat reservoir.
What makes Brooks work is cooling - your sweat evaporates so chaffing is never an issue, and the saddle only supports your sit-bones - it doesn't touch anywhere else, and even deflects away from your soft tissue.

All my Brooks saddles are completely invisible, and interestingly, my narrow Swallows are the most invisible of all






on my more upright bikes, B17




the whole break-in rumor is wild-ass internet extrapolation from people who have picked the wrong model for their riding position, and/or improperly adjusted the saddle position and horn angle
(B17 is the Wrong saddle for a drop-bar road bike, try a Swallow, Pro, B17N, Swift)

Brooks hammock leather saddles are a 120-y-o design that was never broken

they're even lighter than modern saddles when you add a pound of diaper and sweat


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## dnc1 (Apr 23, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> not so, the proof is in distance riding, and my 6000+ mi/yr says it's so
> It only takes a few minutes hanging around groups of cyclists to hear tales of need to try another new saddle, diaper, chaffing cream.
> There's an entire industry built up around support for ill effects of padded saddles.
> Every cross-multiple-states supported distance ride stops in any bike shop in every town for people to buy a different new saddle, diaper, chaffing cream.
> ...



Ditto and Ditto etc. But I am in no way displaying any national bias on this, they are often made in Italy these days after all, they are simply very good at what they do. @bulldog1935 is right too re. the breaking in, a salacious rumour in my humble opinion!
And remember, "Proofide" is predominantly for applying to the underside of a saddle, and should only be applied sparingly/occasionally to the upper surface.
Nice find.


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 23, 2018)

a ps on Obenauf's LP.  At least once on your new leather saddle, coat it sloppy with Obenauf's, and take a hair drier to it - it will soak in deep.  After it cools, maybe the next day, buff it out slick.
You may be able then to go a long time without using it again - just take a chamois to shine up the saddle after you ride.


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## 2jakes (Apr 23, 2018)

@bulldog1935 
I have a couple of '50s bikes. The saddles are in good condition, but I've never have applied anything
to the leather.
Your thoughts on what to use to keep them in good condition.
Thanks


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 23, 2018)

Hi friend, Obenauf's LP is still my choice.  If they're Really Dry, probably ok to begin with Proofide or Obenauf leather oil to get more of that oil content.
After it changes color from the oil it takes up, switch to Obenauf's LP.
Also, any time you apply anything, buff it out slick, even if you wait to the next day to do it.
Don't apply anything too frequently - wait at least a week, and decrease frequency with life - never apply anything to a wet (with water or sweat) saddle.
Found this macro of my 15,000+ mi Brooks - the veins in the leather are alive, or at least well-preserved.




I have major mildew allergies, and can smell mildew at a distance, am wary of the whole biofilm-affected corrosion that can destroy expensive antique fishing reels. But I have actually recovered some mildly mildewed leather items with Obenauf's.
Beeswax is a natural antibiotic. (Honey is the only food on the planet that doesn't rot)

Also, with your saddles in good shape, Obenauf's to the top with the blow drier may be just the ticket.
I also use Obenauf's on the bottom of a new saddle, but as @dnc1 mentioned, the bottom of the saddle is also the best place to use the higher oil-content treatments.

I have a Brooks Swallow Select stashed in reserve - found it for $99 close-out, and grabbed it at that price.  It's there when I need it, and I give it a light coat of Obenauf's inside and out about once/yr


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## 2jakes (Apr 23, 2018)

My apologies to TR6SC for going off topic. I hope the info that my friend has provided will help
others as well.
Bulldog, thank you.


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## TR6SC (Apr 23, 2018)

2jakes said:


> My apologies to TR6SC for going off topic. I hope the info that my friend has provided will help
> others as well.
> Bulldog, thank you.



Jake and Jake, I can't seem to understand what the topic is other than people having good times sharing info. Everything I've heard so far makes me and my friend (the tin donor) pleased. He's an old man and is excited to see his childhood relic the cause of great discussion. Thank you all for expanding the topic.


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## 2jakes (Apr 23, 2018)

TR6SC said:


> Jake and Jake, I can't seem to understand what the topic is ....


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## TR6SC (Apr 23, 2018)

2jakes said:


> View attachment 794265
> 
> View attachment 794266


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 24, 2018)

My buddy the machinist (who built the telescopes at McDonald Observatory) had a 100-pt Tiger he restored (that he parked in his breakfast nook) - even the Smith's gauges worked.
Fenders and tank were the original olive with black pin-striping - he re-painted the whole bike with Krylon, but his skill was over the top, and of course rubbed it.  He used to take the engine cases into the machine shop, rouge them on a buffing wheel, then spray them with clear Krylon.
He found it low mileage, original condition in the storage shed of a sailing buddy, and went to work making it better than new.
He also had a 500cc 1C BSA 4-stroke thumper that in his youth he raced hill-climb and motocross.

As a machinist, it was a mistake to give him a detailed drawing, because that's what he would build.  But if you gave him a sketch and hand-waving, he would build you something better than you asked for.


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## PCHiggin (Apr 24, 2018)

Have you tried the old Proofide? My latest tin  seems weak compared to my last one. I think they changed their formula.


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 24, 2018)

leather bar wrap - cheap wrap came from Trip Machine on Etsy, and 15 days from India (I think it's somebody's grandfather)
But these got the Obenauf's + hair drier treatment.  


 
Added 2 hand positions to the bar with the mod, and don't know how I lived without it before.  


 
unbelievable difference in a headwind - upright bar went from being my worst headwind bike to my best


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## HARPO (Apr 24, 2018)

Maybe it's just me, but I've been using the same leather conditioner on my Brooks saddles on my Raleigh's that I use on the leather seats in my cars. All the saddles look great. Have I been lucky all these years?? (_Oh, and I never knew that Proofhide was made for using on the bottom of the saddle_. _Learned something new!_)

I must confess, that on my road bikes I use the Specialized Body Geometry saddles. I've been riding on them for years and find them extremely comfortable. Usually I don't ride any more than 20 miles or so at a time, so maybe that's why...


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 24, 2018)

I'm sure it's fine.  The worst thing you can do is use a leather conditioner too often.
OK, not quite the worst thing - the worst thing is using olive oil, boiling water soak, oven - following some idiot's leather saddle "break-in" procedure on the internet.

My daughter couldn't get set with a Brooks saddle on her road bike, and we finally got her set with Fabric Radius. (the Specialized saddle was a no-go for her)



 



here's her upright with a B68S


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## RidgeWalker (Apr 30, 2018)

PCHiggin said:


> Have you tried the old Proofide? My latest tin  seems weak compared to my last one. I think they changed their formula.




They did.


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 30, 2018)

my daughter racked out some serious aggressive miles yesterday and loved the Fabric Radius.
They made a really smart design - flexible pan like Brooks but with minimal padding added, and the fabric surface breathes.
It will still never be as thermally cool as a Brooks, but whatever gets you back on the bike is what's best.



It's kind of cute, first reaction to driving is who needs a bike.
But after the driving becomes a rote chore, the bikes become escape again.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Apr 30, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> bringing the IQ of this thread back up a little (and removed from jail showers), Proofide is not the best choice for your leather saddles (Years of sweat experience on leather saddles).
> 
> Obenauf's LP is the stuff - it has a Much higher ratio of beeswax than Proofide - so much so that it smells like honey instead of neatsfoot oil.
> 
> View attachment 792384




The trick is to warm up the leather and melt the hide food over a burner and the leather will soften, much better....


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 30, 2018)

There's nothing about leather that needs to soften (unless it's dried out from age).  I want my saddles to last forever.  Unfortunately they don't, but I do have a Select with over 15,000 mi.
The advantage of the unfortunately discontinued Select grade was the leather was 1mm thicker.

Unfortunately, they are going to soften, they're going to stretch, they're going to need the stretch bolt tightened, they're going to ridge, they're going to need lacing, then they're going to need replacing, before they rot and tear at the rivets or at the frame creases.
The idea is to slow the process as much as possible, so they will last as long as possible.
The break-in poultice rumor causes the opposite result - make the saddle live the shortest possible life, by stealing it up front.



Heat helps get the preservative deeper into the leather, where it can battle the effects of water, sweat, weather, mildew.

The bad signs of seeing the leather stretch are the frame at either end creasing the leather (seeing the shape of the frame in the leather), or the narrow ridge that develops in the center of the saddle when you use the stretch bolt, and the sides flaring.  Lacing to take out the side flares helps to counter the center ridge, but all these signs are a leather saddle stretching and on its way out. 
Also note in my photo above, the place to lace is right under the label. 
YMMV may apply - your mileage Will vary.  I deal with the sweat of south Texas summers, and I'm a pretty large individual to begin with, 6'3", 210 lbs.



(be careful with this leather awl, it will awl your finger)
At the end of it's usefulness for me, the laced B17 just above I sold cheaply to a small individual who wanted it for an infrequent light use bike.

center ridge:




some people claim to like their saddles like this - I'm not one of them




I've been through a bunch of saddle brands, Selle Anatomica (worst for stretching),
Rivet - decent saddle, but I always come back to Brooks, and keep lacing them when needed and replacing them when needed.
Debra at Rivet also runs a rent to try program - that worked well, because my daughter couldn't live with the saddle.

Here's my Rivet Indy - over maybe 8000 mi, it developed the most obtrusive ridge around that back of the cooling hole that I cut away with my best sharp knife.  Ended up replacing it with Swallow Select, which I adore.


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## SKPC (May 1, 2018)

Xln't information here on the leather saddles....  Seat buckets are sooo important for those doing a lot of riding...


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## bulldog1935 (May 4, 2018)

We got our first steam-breathing week of summer riding this week, and I've been attacking it to get in shape for what follows.
This, my highest mileage saddle was on a heavy sweat ride earlier in the week.
Of course it stays inside, and after drying out, gave it the Obenauf's + blow drier treatment last night, and just finished buffing it out.
I haven't treated this saddle since the beginning of last summer, and for the rest of this year, it will just get buffing with a chamois.
I may have to lace this one before the summer is over - we'll see. Leather saddles definitely stretch more in sweat riding.
Also tricky lighting - we're under a 50,000' thunderstorm this morning, so I had to cast an LED lamp on the saddle to get true color.




as I said, high-mileage B17 Select.  Years ago, it began the same natural leather as the Swallow below.
All the color it has now are the oils and dirt it's picked up along the way.




the Swallow, now, is showing its miles, too, in a good way



The photos show what's best about the top-grade not-dyed Brooks.  They just look better and better with age, and the thicker leather lets them live longer.

good thing to do on a rainy Friday afternoon - get saddles ready for summer


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## bulldog1935 (Jul 1, 2018)

Good week for riding (finished up a big project at work), and finished 130 miles for the week this morning (and won the sprint, but only by passing Daniel at the last traffic signal - he should have had me by a block - 4 of us in the lead group were 3 minutes ahead of the next group).
Brutal sun this afternoon, and a good afternoon for an indoor project.

My highest-mileage Brooks was showing front frame through the leather, and needed a rare stretch bolt tighten (quarter-turn).
Expected, and accumulated stretch from this summer's sweat.
So I laced it this afternoon to get that last 5000 or so miles before I replace it with the new (closeout) saddle I have stashed - it's essentially back to new shape, with just a little pucker around the rivets.
This isn't a good back-lit photo, with the exception it shows the smooth lift you get in place of a center ridge when you lace a stretched Brooks.
and yes, I cut my finger with the leather awl (nothing bad)


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Jul 2, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> not so, the proof is in distance riding, and my 6000+ mi/yr says it's so
> It only takes a few minutes hanging around groups of cyclists to hear tales of need to try another new saddle, diaper, chaffing cream.
> There's an entire industry built up around support for ill effects of padded saddles.
> Every cross-multiple-states supported distance ride stops in any bike shop in every town for people to buy a different new saddle, diaper, chaffing cream.
> ...




Here is my Brooks Pro, for my Raleigh International.


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## Kickstand3 (Jul 2, 2018)

2jakes said:


> @bulldog1935
> I have a couple of '50s bikes. The saddles are in good condition, but I've never have applied anything
> to the leather.
> Your thoughts on what to use to keep them in good condition.
> Thanks




This is interesting! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Kickstand3 (Jul 2, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> There's nothing about leather that needs to soften (unless it's dried out from age).  I want my saddles to last forever.  Unfortunately they don't, but I do have a Select with over 15,000 mi.
> The advantage of the unfortunately discontinued Select grade was the leather was 1mm thicker.
> 
> Unfortunately, they are going to soften, they're going to stretch, they're going to need the stretch bolt tightened, they're going to ridge, they're going to need lacing, then they're going to need replacing, before they rot and tear at the rivets or at the frame creases.
> ...




They look great 


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## bulldog1935 (Jul 2, 2018)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> View attachment 833253
> 
> Here is my Brooks Pro, for my Raleigh International.



here's my stashed B17 Select 2012 LE (bought for half-price) that will eventually replace the saddle I just laced yesterday.


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## Kickstand3 (Jul 2, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> Hi friend, Obenauf's LP is still my choice.  If they're Really Dry, probably ok to begin with Proofide or Obenauf leather oil to get more of that oil content.
> After it changes color from the oil it takes up, switch to Obenauf's LP.
> Also, any time you apply anything, buff it out slick, even if you wait to the next day to do it.
> Don't apply anything too frequently - wait at least a week, and decrease frequency with life - never apply anything to a wet (with water or sweat) saddle.
> ...




I’m going to try this I really like a nice saddle 


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## bulldog1935 (Jul 3, 2018)

one more demonstration for you.
I rode 30 mi on my newly-laced highest-mileage B-17 today, and it was great - so much spring has been restored to the leather.

But the demonstration is again how to prevent the hateful center ridge because of rain exposure or sweat rides.



The combination of stretch and the sides flaring is what creates the dreaded center ridge.

If your saddle is wet with sweat or rain, after you ride, you can use a toe strap behind your seatpost and squeeze out the flare.
You see an instant result with the rear of the saddle lifting and the center ridge disappearing.



Leave it for the saddle to dry in this position, at least overnight (better, several days), and when you release the toe strap it will still keep the basic correct shape.
I did this after most sweat rides last summer to keep this saddle humming, but again, this year, decided it was time to lace it.
I'm very happy with the lace result.


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## Kickstand3 (Jul 7, 2018)

Kickstand3 said:


> I’m going to try this I really like a nice saddle
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro












Thanks for the good advice 
Enjoy the Ride!



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