# Is it possible to remove and replace the dropouts?



## fattommy (Sep 30, 2013)

I have an old motorbike that was made by the Miami Cycle Co.  It has a Musselman armless brake which ruined the dropout because the brake hub knurling didn't hold tight and it wore away the metal.  I tried building it up by welding steel back on and filing to shape, but I don't think I have the slot true enough because the wheel won't align.  I'm thinking maybe it would be better to just take the old part out and put another one in except they are locked in place due to the angles in the frame and the brazing.
Can this be done?  Anyone?
http://imgur.com/5YqBHYe


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## sam (Oct 1, 2013)

fattommy said:


> .
> Can this be done?  Anyone?
> http://imgur.com/5YqBHYe




Yes it can


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## fattommy (Oct 1, 2013)

Thanks Sam- got any tips on doing it?


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## partsguy (Oct 1, 2013)

That will be hard to do. Good luck with it!


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## 37fleetwood (Oct 1, 2013)

been there done that!

started with this frame:





made these









and built this


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## fattommy (Oct 2, 2013)

Really great Scott.  Question: do I have to cut the existing dropouts in half to remove them, or can they just be heated up real hot then driven out?  Also about putting the new ones in, how do you do that?


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## Iverider (Oct 2, 2013)

I think I would try to work with what you have. Is the wonky dropout bent upward? It looks like it from the pictures but I can't be certain. I think I would attempt heating it and bending it before I would tear the dropout out of the frame. Removal would be easiest if you cut it first as you'll be fighting the seat and chain stay tension along with however it is brazed or welded to the dropout. 

You may also be better off having a professional welder at it (if you're not one) 
I usually succumb to that option when things get tricky (like welding Aluminum). Reinstallation of the new dropout (should you choose that route) will be very tricky. 

Scott did a great job with the Huffman, but he relocated the seat stay allowing him to get everything in place before final brazing. If you're proficient with brazing and don't fear removing the seat stays you could do that in order to insert the new dropout. 

You could also cheat it and make a stepped washer that put the axle in the proper place in relation to where the wheel rides in the frame. Good luck and post progress when you figure out the puzzle!


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## 37fleetwood (Oct 2, 2013)

I'm going to say each manufacturer is going to be different.
Ideal would be to simply repair the original drop out. next would be to replace it with one from another frame (maybe someone has one that was damaged elsewhere). and finally, as in my case I had to recreate one.
one thing to keep in mind is that braze joints are easy to un-glue and re-glue without doing any other damage to the frame. on my Huffman I took the rear end completely off of the bike and grabbed the original drop out in the vise and rocked the seat and chain stays back and forth until the spot weld broke. if you don't weld, find someone who does.


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## bricycle (Oct 2, 2013)

Your repair looks pretty darn good.... Just modify it till wheel lines up.


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## sam (Oct 2, 2013)

fattommy said:


> Thanks Sam- got any tips on doing it?




Start by drilling out the spot welds.
http://www.eastwood.com/welders/spot-weld-cutters.html


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## fattommy (Oct 3, 2013)

sam said:


> Start by drilling out the spot welds.
> http://www.eastwood.com/welders/spot-weld-cutters.html




Thanks to all.  I've been thinking about this for quite a while now and realize there are lots of ways to get this wrong.  
I bought a Miami doner frame on Eee bay tonight to play with, but it's a girls bike, so the angles between the seat and chain stays might be different.  Don't know that yet.  I'll have to decide what to do when I get it.  I wanted to play around with it before hacking into the one I'm fixing.  
I don't see the spotwelds on mine.  Might be the dropouts are just brazed in place.  Looks like if I grind away a little of the top edge of the seat stay, the dropout could slide straight back for removal, if that's the way this goes.  
I'm becoming a little obsessed with this whole thing as usually happens, worried about screwing this up.
I'll post some pictures as I get into it.


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## Iverider (Oct 3, 2013)

This may sound stupid, but if the rear triangles ARE the same, it may be easier to replace the motorbike rear triangle with the drop frame rear triangle. The repair must be professionally done of course or you'll find riding the bike is dangerous! If you're a professional, then it can be done by YOU. If you are not, you can have it done. At least that way, the rear stays will remain in alignment since they'll be connected by bridges between them.


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## fordsnake (Oct 9, 2013)

Here's the way they use to do it. Note: the designs of the post-war dropouts, this was posted in 1896.


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## fattommy (Oct 12, 2013)

Today I decided to remove the dropouts from the donor frame I bought to see if I really want to try to replace them on my good bike.
Just as an aside, I discovered that the reason I was having so much trouble getting the wheel to line up wasn't due to the dropout, but rather the frame was slightly bent.  After I straightened it, the wheel went in just fine.  Changing the drop out at this point really isn't necessary, but I wanted to find out how difficult changing one would be.

http://imgur.com/5YqBHYe
Not knowing for sure if all bikes have spot welded attachments, I removed the paint to see if I could see any spot welds. 

http://i.imgur.com/I6kQiX9.jpg

Not real easy to see, but I discovered the welds were big and there were sometimes two real close to the end of the frame.  Drilling them out would take almost the whole end of the tube away leaving very little to install the replacements in.

http://i.imgur.com/0Uy8yH8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Ig3pQQz.jpg

I tried grinding away as much as I thought I could get away with and heated the joint to soften the metal.  Then using a heavy steel drift I pounded the dropout out of the frame.  It was hard to get out and deformed the frame tubes and tore away some of the tubes.

http://i.imgur.com/O6I2IXS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AOefOP5.jpg

After I had the part removed I compared it to my bike to see if it COULD work.  The replacement dropout was almost exactly the same shape, except it was quite a bit thicker.  With some benching, I think the part could be made to fit.  However, getting it to go back in and line up properly would require a lot of careful fitting and repair to the damaged frame.  One problem I thought I would have was getting the dropout to go back in, but I think the tubes would flex enough that it could be done.  Probably would want to round off the corners of the new part to help with that.

Soooooo... Decided to edit this post and give an update.  Today I had a little too much syrup on my pancakes and got all sugared up and started putting the dropouts back in the old bike I took them out of.  I took a few pics and will post them a little later.  Actually, I spent about 1/2 day doing it.  Really wasn't that hard.  What was hard was joining the seat stay I messed up so bad taking the first dropout out.  The lesson there is take your time and try to keep as much metal on the bike as possible.
After I tacked things together and lined them up things went pretty well I think.  Havn't put a wheel in yet so I say pretty well, maybe not that well, we'll see if it goes in right.  I probably did something you purists might object to.  After things were brazed in and ground down, I put some Bondo on to make things look better.  Pics coming soon.

The fun begins.

http://i.imgur.com/pywgc12.jpg

After tacking the dropouts in with weld to hold them in place, the joints were brazed together.

http://i.imgur.com/DjldFpR.jpg

Using a grinder and file excess brass removed.  Bondo applied to smooth things out.

http://i.imgur.com/fvlTd6y.jpg

Test fit.  Can't believe it, it works!  The wheel is in and centers up.

http://i.imgur.com/lZUyGnX.jpg


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## fattommy (Oct 13, 2013)

Bumping for interested parties.  I edited the last post to show how it finally turned out after the dropouts were reinstalled and brazed back in.


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