# Hawthorne ID



## M.Martian (Jun 22, 2010)

I've been looking here and around some of the other sites trying to figure out the age of a Hawthorne I just picked up.  It's mainly just for curiosity.  I would like to eventually throw a springer, fenders and maybe a rack on there.  I would like to keep it era correct but make and model is not important for this one.  I'm sure I will end up doing an accurate restore project some day as this vintage bike bug has sunk it's teeth in pretty deep. 

It's far from original and seems to be a mix of parts.  It had been listed as a pre-war.  It has definately been repainted at least one time as there appears to be a steel blue under the red.  This bike will not be restored other than a possible sand blast and powdercoat and riding it around.

I have more pictures of some other key areas on the frame if they are needed.

Thanks for any help on this.
Mark


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## Adamtinkerer (Jun 22, 2010)

The badge is a 1950-late 50s, but the frame looks like it was built by Murray. The brass screws in the badge also leads me to think it was added. Those rear dropouts are unusual too.


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## M.Martian (Jun 22, 2010)

I forgot to add the numbers on the bottom bracket.  Without removing any paint it appears that the stamping shows the following:
MUS-L (small text)
MOD 502 221 (small text)
56636 (large text)


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## Adamtinkerer (Jun 23, 2010)

'MOD 502' ID's this as a made for Sears bike by Murray. Usually, the middle # between 502 and the sequential serial # (56636) is a 4 or 5 digit catalog #. If it was prewar, it'd be a 5000 series #, and postwar 4500. So there might be additional numbers there, or it just has a weird number.


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## M.Martian (Jun 23, 2010)

Thanks,

I'll have to try and remove some of that paint and see what I can find in there.


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## RMS37 (Jun 23, 2010)

This is a good find and ties in with research I have been doing on the earliest postwar Murray frames of which this is one.

Briefly;

I have recorded two frames that I believe are from 1944-1945 with similar serial number stampings and MOS-J on them; they are earlier than this frame so the MOS-L makes sense with this frame being slightly later but it is premature to go much further regarding the interpretation of the J and L. I currently believe they relate to the bike’s build date but if the serial numbers run from 00001 to 99999 then one letter would not cover a full year of production so the letters may be consecutively stamped but may not mean these two frames are two year apart. 

I agree that MOD 502 can be interpreted loosely as “made by Murray for Sears”

The number 221 is the individual Sear model number. A model number was assigned to each different model of Sear bicycle sold before WW2 and was used in their parts literature for ordering replacement parts for the bicycles. Many of the prewar models had a decal on or near the seat binder clamp with the model number but at some point this number began being stamped into the bottom bracket and later yet seems to have been abandoned in favor of stamping a number in the bottom bracket that relates to the catalog order number for the bike. 

I don’t have anywhere near enough numbers to complete these chains but it looks like the 3 digit model number was stamped in bikes at least into the early 1950’s

Lastly, I do not believe the 56636 is a catalog number, on these early frames it is more likely the sequential serial number; in this case for the “L” series bikes.

Regarding the bike frames themselves, the earliest models I described are essentially the same as this bike and the frames used on later 40’s and 50’s J.C. Higgins bikes. The differences are the construction of the seat juncture, the dropouts and the fact that they are clearly labeled as Elgins rather than J.C. Higgins. These frames (of which two have surfaced with rumors of a third extant) have seat junctures that used formed sleeves and that can be dated by patent information to between 1944 and early 1945. The frame in this post has the same juncture as later frames with the bulged annular ring at the confluence of the tubes but has dropouts that face to the rear and are identical to those used on the earliest frames except the drop stand tangs have been removed from the drop out blank.

Anyway, I have been researching these bikes for about a year, since the first one turned up on eBay and your bike is the closest in design and serial number I have found. I would guess that your bike started life as an early post-war J.C. Higgins, likely from about 1946 or 1947 and as you can see I am excited to gain some additional information on this subject. If any one else has any early J.C. Higgins frames that can add to the knowledge about this period I would be very happy to hear from you.


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## Rookie (Jun 23, 2010)

Where do you guys find your bikes? Help im a rookie  ?


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## M.Martian (Jun 23, 2010)

Thanks for all that great info Phil.

Glad this frame can fill in a little bit more info for you.  Now that I know it's a Murray made in around 46-47 that gives me an idea of what parts I can keep an eye out for.  I guess that means the thread title should also change. 

One thing I noticed is that it has no bosses for any chain guard (rear stay or the bottom bracket).  It also looks like someone drilled out the fender mount hole on the drive side rear dropout.

As for finding these pre and early post war bikes.  I just got lucky and found this one on craigslist about a half hour from where I work.  After not finding much I found this one over the weekend and just picked up a possible pre-war Hawthorne frame on CL (now I need to figure out the date on that one).


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## M.Martian (Jun 23, 2010)

I just pulled the badge off to throw it on my Hawthorne frame and it's got another set of mounting holes under there (vertical centered pattern).  Unfortunately the hole pattern on the badge is wider than my Hawthorne's holes.

That frame has the following stamp on the bottom bracket.
I4 EH
127165

Is there any site out there that maps out the serial number on the Hawthorne similar to 
the one for Schwinn?


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## M.Martian (Jun 23, 2010)

fullshot of frame


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## RMS37 (Jun 24, 2010)

The grey frame is an H.P. Snyder built frame and could be a Hawthorne or a number of other brands that were produced by Snyder.

No one has successfully broken the code for Snyder serial numbers and there are no surviving lists in the public domain. Another one of my “for what it is worth” deductions is that the serial number pattern that Snyder started in 1940 has 2 lines of numbers; if you reverse the first two numbers on the first line you get 40 or 41 from 04 or 14. I believe this may represent the year of the bike which would make your bike a 1941; a year consistent with the style of the frame and the curved down tube which was introduced in 1941.


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