# Why does Black Phantom decal do this?



## crazyhawk (Nov 5, 2018)

I just got this 1953 Schwinn Black Phantom at the Memory Lane swap. The paint is original on the frame and, I think, on the tank as well.  I can't figure out how the tank decal seems to remain when the paint around it disappears.  It looks like the original decal, not a reproduction.  Does the clear part of the decal disintegrate and take the paint with it leaving just the lettering?  It seems as if the black paint is still under the Schwinn lettering. And the white pinstripe looks original.  Or is something else going on?  I've seen this before on Phantoms.  Maybe it's a dumb question, but I can't quite get a handle on it.  Anyone care to chime in?


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## GTs58 (Nov 5, 2018)

That is weird, don't remember ever seeing anything like this. No black paint under the clear showing the outline of were the clear decal base was or is. Crazy, and I can't explain it. 

By the way, your Phantom is probably a 57 model wearing a three year 52-53-57 serial number. Springer is 1955 or later.


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## kreika (Nov 5, 2018)

Back when they made real decals!


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## SJ_BIKER (Nov 5, 2018)

ill post a pic but i have a phantom with the same condition


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## stoney (Nov 5, 2018)

No explanation here. I have seem many Black Phantoms like many of us have and never seen that before. Huh


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## crazyhawk (Nov 5, 2018)

GTs58 said:


> That is weird, don't remember ever seeing anything like this. No black paint under the clear showing the outline of were the clear decal base was or is. Crazy, and I can't explain it.
> 
> By the way, your Phantom is probably a 57 model wearing a three year 52-53-57 serial number. Springer is 1955 or later.



I bet you're right.  I need to spend more time learning how to read serial numbers better.


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## rustystone2112 (Nov 5, 2018)

Simple explanation,
wrong decals for phantom , phantom tank decals don't have the speed lines or an 'S' with a loop at the top that your tank has , also the black speed lines wouldn't show up on the black paint backround. Those decals are later from 57, 58 , 59 Tornado


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## rustystone2112 (Nov 5, 2018)

GTs58 said:


> That is weird, don't remember ever seeing anything like this. No black paint under the clear showing the outline of were the clear decal base was or is. Crazy, and I can't explain it.
> 
> By the way, your Phantom is probably a 57 model wearing a three year 52-53-57 serial number. Springer is 1955 or later.




Also wearing 58-59 Tornado decals on that tank


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## SJ_BIKER (Nov 5, 2018)

Heres mine


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## GTs58 (Nov 5, 2018)

The decals might have been replaced at some point. I thought it was odd that the right side decal has the S way down over the white pin but the left does not but it is placed low at the tail end of Schwinn. I think some kid redid those decals, and I approve my thinking.  (lmao)

Here's an original and the S is not over the white pin.


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## GTs58 (Nov 5, 2018)

Maybe I'll have to disapprove my thinking. lol........ Another very sloppy placed tank decal.


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## bikecrazy (Nov 5, 2018)

I have a Jaguar middleweight with the same issue. Black paint under factory tank decal is fading and splitting.


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## Pantmaker (Nov 9, 2018)

I have seen paint under the clear portion of the decals here in Arizona fall off like this leaving the paint under the colored portions of the decals intact. My white Corvette's chainguard is a great example.  Possibly weather/climate dependent, but I always assumed that it was a function of the differential shrinkage/durability of the decal and the painted surface to which it is bonded. Over time, one goes this way and one goes that way and 3ventually both simply fall off.  The chainguard on the white Corvette that was just posted today is showing early signs of the same phenomenon.


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## crazyhawk (Nov 10, 2018)

Pantmaker said:


> I have seen paint under the clear portion of the decals here in Arizona fall off like this leaving the paint under the colored portions of the decals intact. My white Corvette's chainguard is a great example.  Possibly weather/climate dependent, but I always assumed that it was a function of the differential shrinkage/durability of the decal and the painted surface to which it is bonded. Over time, one goes this way and one goes that way and 3ventually both simply fall off.  The chainguard on the white Corvette that was just posted today is showing early signs of the same phenomenon.



I think you are right on with your assessment.  The paint on the the chrome tanks is always weaker and more vulnerable to damage.  The clear part of the decal gets crispy and flakes off, taking the weak paint with it.  Now, I'm still not 100% sure Schwinn didn't slap this "Tornado" style decal on at the factory at some point on Phantoms.  I have seen a few over the years that looked original and were from non-bike-guy owners. But, I'm going to consider it a replacement until I can prove otherwise, which may be impossible....


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## Pantmaker (Nov 11, 2018)

crazyhawk said:


> I think you are right on with your assessment.  The paint on the the chrome tanks is always weaker and more vulnerable to damage.  The clear part of the decal gets crispy and flakes off, taking the weak paint with it.  Now, I'm still not 100% sure Schwinn didn't slap this "Tornado" style decal on at the factory at some point on Phantoms.  I have seen a few over the years that looked original and were from non-bike-guy owners. But, I'm going to consider it a replacement until I can prove otherwise, which may be impossible....



I actually think both of these things are going on here.  I think the original phantom decal (which is a larger footprint) decayed and took the tank paint with it. The Tornado decal was put on later as a replacement.  The Tornado decal edges are cut close to the color portion of the graphics and follow the profile of the lettering. If you look closely you can see it in your photos.  I have a Deluxe Tornado and verified that it has the same decal shape. See below.


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## Rusty Klunker (Nov 11, 2018)

GTs58 said:


> Maybe I'll have to disapprove my thinking. lol........ Another very sloppy placed tank decal.
> 
> View attachment 896292





GT, the sticker in this pic sits farther back away from the horn button. Maybe that's why its over the line. Things I'm seeing different on the other stickers is the top of the S has a hole in it, the dot on the I and the last n.


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## GTs58 (Nov 11, 2018)

Rusty Klunker said:


> GT, the sticker in this pic sits farther back away from the horn button. Maybe that's why its over the line. Things I'm seeing different on the other stickers is the top of the S has a hole in it, the dot on the I and the last n.




You're right, we're dealing with two different decals here. Like rustystone said, the one with the hole in the S and other oddities is the 58 + Tornado decal. The OP's bike has had both decals replaced with these, or so it appears. Not sure why Schwinn would install the tank decals over the white pin though. Usually their placement of decals was right on when they had a tight fit. Maybe the others I've seen with the S over the pin have also been replaced at some point?  I can spot a Corvette 5 speed chain guard that has been redone just by looking at the placement of the letter T and the center of the 5 speed cross flags decal. Tight fit there too and the alignment of the actual screening has to be perfectly duplicated if new decals are installed.


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## crazyhawk (Nov 13, 2018)

Sorry, but I am not convinced. I know my decal is not the normal one you find on Phantoms, that is obvious.  I know it's the one found on Tornadoes. But I have now found only 2 other 1958 phantoms on the cabe and elsewhere that claim to be original and both have the "tornado" style lettering decal on the tank.  I've had other original Phantoms with the decal over the white outline.  I know they got sloppy at the factory that way sometimes.  Mine is a '58, serial #K843058 (Oct 13, 1958).  I know the '59 has the newer style decal on the tank, but I can't find pics of the original '58 Schwinn catalog showing a Phantom.  Does anyone out there own a known all-original Phantom who can verify what decal was put on the tank?  And it's the same year as the Tornado.  A coincidence, or did Schwinn use the same decal on both models?  Please keep an open mind.  I love a good mystery....lol        p.s.  Look at my original 2 pics. Both decal letters are placed within the missing clear decal outline in exactly the same position.


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## crazyhawk (Nov 13, 2018)

rustystone2112 said:


> Simple explanation,
> wrong decals for phantom , phantom tank decals don't have the speed lines or an 'S' with a loop at the top that your tank has , also the black speed lines wouldn't show up on the black paint backround. Those decals are later from 57, 58 , 59 Tornado



Not that simple really, IMO


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## C M Gerlach (Jan 29, 2022)

Good info.....one more.


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