# You always remember your first time... 1916 Iver Roadster



## dasberger (Nov 5, 2019)

Hello All-

I'm a new member embarking on my first project.  I've posted a little more about myself and how I got here in the Antique Pre 1933 section under the post "New Member...Old Bike".  I've had this project waiting in the wings for a while and once I stumbled upon The CABE I was inspired!  Some really, really impressive work out there folks.  

So here's what I'm working with:

1916 Iver Truss Frame Roadster in as found condition







First step was to get out the compressor and blow off decades worth of dust... Serious dust!





Then I did some Lexol on the seat and did an initial WD-40 and steel wool wipe down

Here are some before and afters:



































Then I hit all the moving bits, bolts and nuts with Blaster and will do this a time or two again before I start wrenching on anything....  Any  pointers on how to loosen rusted parts(what to or not to do)  before I start greatly appreciated.

I'm surprised at how good the paint looks after just a few mins of light scrubbing.  My next steps will be to start breaking the bike down so I can attack the rust and get everything re-lubed and moving again.  I plan on taking off the non original parts which seem to be basket, chain guard and fenders... fenders are pretty beat up anyway.  Anyone know anything about the chain guard?

I also know I will be needing some parts as I go along.  So far I know I need a left crank arm (not sure if its a 6.5" or a 7" need to measure)  Also missing a left pedal so will be looking for one or a pair.  

Still undecided on the wheels whether I'm going to restore for show, try to restore to ride or buy a replacement set and leave originals as is...  but I guess thats a post for another time.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts, tips or parts.  More to come!


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## Balloonoob (Nov 5, 2019)

That's a pretty nice first old bike! ￼￼.  i believe the chain guard was used on late 30s rollfast / hawthorne bikes. Maybe others as well but there are definitely folks looking for them. Fenders might be original and salvageable too but I'm no expert ;someone here will likely know. I would spray penetrating oil on every nut before taking a wrench to it.  You may need someone who knows what they are doing to service and maybe straighten (true) the wheels unless you have experience with this. Decals are in great shape. Paint too. Congrats! Btw - 26 or 28 inch wheels?


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## dasberger (Nov 5, 2019)

Thanks!  I'm excited about it.  I'm going to set aside the parts as the come off and see what I'm working with.  Will probably pass on non original parts to those that need them.  The fenders could be saved  they're not really that bad I'm just not skilled in shaping metal... As for the wheels they are wood 28's.  They aren't actually that bad it's just the spokes I'm worried about.  I will dive into that once I can get them free!  Tomorrow more penetrating oil


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## Hammerhead (Nov 5, 2019)

Very nice bike. Keep us updated on the progress. Good luck with this project.
Hammerhead


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## DonChristie (Nov 5, 2019)

Holy cow! What a beauty! You seem to be going about the correct way! Chainguard is an aftermarket piece and so is the basket. Wheels are always an issue with these old 28” bikes. Using the wood wheels (assuming they are and original) is kind of sketchy! The seams in the wood seperate over time. Inspect them closely. There are many ways to overcome this! New wood hoops or using metal clad hoops is about your best coarse. Finding the crank arm and pedal will be difficult! She needs to be on the road again! This is part of the fun! Good luck!


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## dasberger (Nov 6, 2019)

Hey Don!
Yeah she's a beauty alright.  The wheels are painted black with no sign of pinstripes.  Judging from the "alligator" checking of the paint I would guess they are original.  Rear coaster is a Morrow haven't been able to get the front hub clean enough to identify. Bike was a wall hanger at an old  TGI Fridays so assumably they tossed left crank so it would sit against the wall and also drove some screws into the wheels...nice.  Guess that adds to the sketch factor.  Hmm...  set them aside as is or do I salvage the hubs and lace them to new wood?  Decisions, decisions....


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## Balloonoob (Nov 6, 2019)

dasberger said:


> Hey Don!
> Yeah she's a beauty alright.  The wheels are painted black with no sign of pinstripes.  Judging from the "alligator" checking of the paint I would guess they are original.  Rear coaster is a Morrow haven't been able to get the front hub clean enough to identify. Bike was a wall hanger at an old  TGI Fridays so assumably they tossed left crank so it would sit against the wall and also drove some screws into the wheels...nice.  Guess that adds to the sketch factor.  Hmm...  set them aside as is or do I salvage the hubs and lace them to new wood?  Decisions, decisions....



That bike came off a wall at tgi Friday's?   that is ridiculous. Did you buy it from the restaurant owner or something? That bike is phenomenal deserves more than that. Glad it was saved and good luck getting it back together.


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## dasberger (Nov 6, 2019)

Yeah about five years they were auctioning off all the "flair" on the walls of a location that had been around for years and my old man bought it along with a bunch of other great stuff...  Its been sitting in our office ever since.  I knew at some point I would get around to giving it some love so here I am.  The site has already been immensely helpful. Such an amazing archive


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## Balloonoob (Nov 6, 2019)

Wow that's awesome. Glad he was able to pick it up.


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## DonChristie (Nov 6, 2019)

You can date the Morrow hub by the numbers stamped on it. If the wheels are original, that would date the bike. The hub stamp is alpha-numeric, like d34 or something like that. Search the cabe for the coding, it is listed here several times!


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## dasberger (Nov 6, 2019)

Looks like they are original wheels.  The morrow alpha numeric codes seem to have started with 'A' in 1931.  Bike serial dates to 1916 and  the IJ catalog from 1916 lists morrow hub under regular equipment for the truss roadster.  Haven't been able to find a stamp aside from morrow on brake arm.  Anyone know if there are other stamps on morrow hubs from the teens?


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## Balloonoob (Nov 6, 2019)

dasberger said:


> Looks like they are original wheels.  The morrow alpha numeric codes seem to have started with 'A' in 1931.  Bike serial dates to 1916 and  the IJ catalog from 1916 lists morrow hub under regular equipment for the truss roadster.  Haven't been able to find a stamp aside from morrow on brake arm.  Anyone know if there are other stamps on morrow hubs from the teens?



I was shared this link on another thread just today . It's a page from the website @Freqman1 created and maintains. https://vintageamericanbicycles.com/index.php/hub-dating/


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## piercer_99 (Nov 6, 2019)

my 1918 Pierce and 1929 and 1930 Westfield bicycles both have stock Morrow hubs, without any script on the hub shell or date codes. 

I run modern rims on my bikes, with vintage hubs. It makes tire shopping easier as well as repair. I would much rather replace an eight dollar tube than a 150 dollar single tube tire.


The critter that removed the crank arm and tossed it, then screwed through the wheel set, needs to be horse whipped. just my humble opinion on that mortal sin.


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## dasberger (Nov 6, 2019)

piercer_99 said:


> my 1918 Pierce and 1929 and 1930 Westfield bicycles both have stock Morrow hubs, without any script on the hub shell or date codes.
> 
> I run modern rims on my bikes, with vintage hubs. It makes tire shopping easier as well as repair. I would much rather replace an eight dollar tube than a 150 dollar single tube tire.
> 
> ...




I'd wager an opinion shared by many around here!  Bike was probably picked roughly 35 years ago given they heyday of Fridays..whomever did at least had a decent eye!  Makes sense earlier versions had no other markings.  Seems to point to my wheels being original to the bike


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## olderthandirt (Nov 6, 2019)

i am up to my neck in ivers at the moment ,there nice bikes and i really like them ! you can tell they were built by a gun company by  the quality of the fasteners ,they used fine thread and very good quality fasteners thru out the bike !


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## dasberger (Nov 7, 2019)

olderthandirt said:


> i am up to my neck in ivers at the moment ,there nice bikes and i really like them ! you can tell they were built by a gun company by  the quality of the fasteners ,they used fine thread and very good quality fasteners thru out the bike !




Yeah they seem "bullet proof"  Let me know if you have an extra left  crank arm or any early waffle tread pedals falling out of that pile of Ivers!


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## Duchess (Nov 7, 2019)

Look like single tube rims. Finding something that doesn't look too modern and is an appropriate width will be expensive. It would be a lot easier to re-lace the hubs to modern rims. You can get wood clinchers if you want them. It's what I did with my 1912, though I kept the original wheels intact and got all new everything except for the front hub, which is a 1930s(?) ND Model W I got off ebay 2/$25. Used that because the front hubs are 90mm (or at least the Special Racers are) instead of the long-standard 100mm, so I recommend using the originals if you can.


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## dasberger (Nov 7, 2019)

Duchess said:


> Look like single tube rims. Finding something that doesn't look too modern and is an appropriate width will be expensive. It would be a lot easier to re-lace the hubs to modern rims. You can get wood clinchers if you want them. It's what I did with my 1912, though I kept the original wheels intact and got all new everything except for the front hub, which is a 1930s(?) ND Model W I got off ebay 2/$25. Used that because the front hubs are 90mm (or at least the Special Racers are) instead of the long-standard 100mm, so I recommend using the originals if you can.





I'm torn between keeping rims as is for display or using the hubs.  I'm thinking the Stutzman wood/metal clinchers and find another set of hubs probably my best bet as I'm a pretty big guy and have bent my fair share of rims over the years....  

Got any pics of yours with the wood clinchers?  Would love to see how they came out


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## Duchess (Nov 7, 2019)




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## dasberger (Nov 7, 2019)

Duchess said:


> View attachment 1092213





Looks Great!  Road or special racer?  Are those the CB Italia wheels?  Amsterdam Electra tires? Leaning toward keeping originals as is and getting some vintage hubs to lace new wood to


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## Duchess (Nov 8, 2019)

dasberger said:


> Looks Great!  Road or special racer?  Are those the CB Italia wheels?  Amsterdam Electra tires? Leaning toward keeping originals as is and getting some vintage hubs to lace new wood to




1912 Special Racer. CB Italia "vintage" finish IIRC, and Linus tires. I wanted something with a smooth tread that would look era-appropriate and these were what I found. They were absolute hell to get onto the rims. I don't know if it was the tires or rims that made it difficult, but I don't recommend the combination. They ride well, though, if it gets a flat, I may just not ride it again instead of wrestling and swearing and throwing tire levers and swearing some more.

These bikes were really well made and the quality shows even over 100 years later. All up with the heavier modern wheels (and maybe the bag, I can't remember), it weighs about 28 lbs.


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## dasberger (Nov 11, 2019)

So I was finally able to get going on this one...  I stripped the non original fenders, basket and chain guard as well as the old front tire that was hanging.  All into a box to sort out later.  Here's some pics and some of what I uncovered....

On the bench







Seat post marked Iver Johnson






Morrow rear...










Front Hub no marks.  Maker?  IJ?






That OG Green!






I thought the rims were black!   Looks like American Wood Wheel Co.  Color "H4"












Last week....






This Week!
















I was able to get everything hubs spin freely, brake works, bottom bracket spins smooth although there is a little wobble in the chainring.  After discovering the original pinstripes in the rims coupled with the screw holes in both front and rear I've decided to leave the wheels as is.  Possibly get a set of display tires  down the road and build a new set of wheels.  Looking to do vintage hubs laced to new wood. 

Fenders are pretty jacked so I'm going to leave them off until I can find someone to roll them or better yet find a set of early flat Iver fenders...

So parts I know I need:

6.5"  IJ left crank arm and lock washer/nut

Left Pedal or a set

Set of Hubs... Pre date code Morrow rear coaster, IJ or similar to my original 36h

Let me know what you guys have laying around!


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## dasberger (Jan 4, 2020)

Now that the holidays are over I had a chance to keep working on the roadster....

Been gathering parts.  Thanks to all the fellow CABERS who rummaged their parts bins and basements to help me out!





(Jeweled pedals for another project)





Look at that...  A full crankset and two pedals!





Added an oval stamped B-17 not sure exactly how old it is but it's got the patina to match.  The Mesinger that was on it wasn't original either so I figured I would throw it on for now.  Troxel Moto bike #31 would have been regular equipment but some others were optional.  (Not the brooks B-15 as it specifically states in the catalog) B-15 Was standard on the racers but some B-17's seem to have ended up on racers as well.






Leather wrapped Birch grips to match the Brooks.  Was trying to find a pair of stubby leather bulldog grips but was only able to find an original pair that I don't think would hold up to riding.  Would rather have a pair of repop if somebody has a pair.





So close!  Now all I need to do is clean these bad boys and lace 'em to some new wood hoops!  Decided to buy these keep original hoops and hubs for display...  Pre date code Morrow rear the same as mine...


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## stezell (Jan 4, 2020)

Looking good Josh, so close to riding man!


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## Balloonoob (Jan 22, 2020)

So close! That's gonna be awesome to ride.  A real time machine. Good job man!


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## dasberger (May 11, 2020)

Finally found a correct set of early Iver flat fenders... and some other goodies.  Took ta few pairs to get the right set!  If anyone is looking for early Iver fenders I have a rough set of early flat as well as an early pair of rain gutters that came on the bike....pictures in the beginning of this thread.... PM if in need and I can send pics.  





Fenders and Klaxon mounted.  Still need a mounting bracket for the lamp if anyone has one and I guess a drop stand since I've got a clip.  I think the Brooks looks pretty nice but would still love to get a Troxel on there.  Little by little it's coming together... now on to new hoops!


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (May 11, 2020)

dasberger said:


> Hey Don!
> Yeah she's a beauty alright.  The wheels are painted black with no sign of pinstripes.  Judging from the "alligator" checking of the paint I would guess they are original.  Rear coaster is a Morrow haven't been able to get the front hub clean enough to identify. Bike was a wall hanger at an old  TGI Fridays so assumably they tossed left crank so it would sit against the wall and also drove some screws into the wheels...nice.  Guess that adds to the sketch factor.  Hmm...  set them aside as is or do I salvage the hubs and lace them to new wood?  Decisions, decisions....



You can laminate carbon fiber tape on the rims, for strength.


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## dasberger (May 11, 2020)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> You can laminate carbon fiber tape on the rims, for strength.



Not a bad Idea.  I gave them a good look today and they're pretty true.  If i filled the screw holes and applied CF tape they would probably hold up.  I think I'm still leaning towards leaving them as is for display and a pair of Stutzman's with clincher insert for riding


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (May 11, 2020)

dasberger said:


> Not a bad Idea.  I gave them a good look today and they're pretty true.  If i filled the screw holes and applied CF tape they would probably hold up.  I think I'm still leaning towards leaving them as is for display and a pair of Stutzman's with clincher insert for riding



You laminate the CF tape over the spoke holes and tube stem hole, then let cure and use a Dremel tool to cut spoke holes and fill stem hole through the CF.


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## dasberger (May 11, 2020)

Yeah that makes sense.  I was talking about filling holes somebody put in rims when they hung the bike on the wall.  Each wheel has multiple holes through the side from 3 1/2" deck screws


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## DonChristie (May 11, 2020)

Oh man, shes looking good! Nice job!


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## fat tire trader (May 12, 2020)

You asked about dating your Morrow hub. In 1917,  the clutch parts in the hub were changed to finer teeth. This change lasted, so depending upon the teeth you can tell if it is from before 17 or after. The other internal parts in the hub did not change.


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## dasberger (May 12, 2020)

fat tire trader said:


> You asked about dating your Morrow hub. In 1917,  the clutch parts in the hub were changed to finer teeth. This change lasted, so depending upon the teeth you can tell if it is from before 17 or after. The other internal parts in the hub did not change.



Thats good to know.  The one on the bike is laced to original hoops so I assume it's pre 1917... haven't had it apart.  I bought another set of hubs to build wheels  to ride and it's pre date code as well.   Be interesting to see what the teeth look like.  I'm thinking it's 20's


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## fat tire trader (May 12, 2020)

How did you determine the year of your bike? Only by the serial number?


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## dasberger (May 12, 2020)

Honestly I thought it was a little bit older given serial number is 261xxx but if you look at the 1915 vs the 1916 catalogs the truss on my connects directly to top tube with a  full nickel fork.  In 1915 the roadster had the truss connected to top tube by a small piece of tubing. This was pointed out by @Handyman. If the 300,000th bike was produced in 1916 as per serial chart mine was probably early 1916.


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