# Early Schwinn S-6 Rims



## Oilit (Aug 14, 2021)

I picked up this (1947?) Continental a while back and after I got it I noticed some details that cooled my initial enthusiasm - there are stress cracks in the paint behind the steering head that probably came from a front-end impact, and while mostly original some of the parts have obviously been replaced. My first impression was that the rims looked newer than the bike, they're chrome while most of the early Continentals posted here have stainless rims. Even the post-war New Worlds often have stainless rims. On the other hand, I have a 1953 Traveler that has rims with a diamond knurl, while by 1955 the rims used a straight knurl which they carried to the end of the line. But the stainless rims don't have any knurling at all, and the 1945/46 Continental that @Jim sciano found has chrome rims with a straight knurl, but with very light and crisp tool marks, that look a lot like what's on this Continental. So maybe I'm just not seeing the whole picture.
The S-2 rims were introduced in 1948, but it looks like the S-6 was earlier, although catalogs from that period are scarce. And I've never seen any Schwinn literature mention the stainless rims, although they were never shy about advertising stainless fenders. And there are at least a few stainless S-2 rims, although they're even less common than the stainless S-6. All of which leaves me with more questions than answers.
One more observation - from pictures the pre-war rims have the spoke holes offset to either side of the centerline, while S-6 rims always have the spoke holes nearly on center, with just a slight offset. I'm guessing the pre-war rims were bought in from an outside supplier, but again, I don't really know.
So if you have an early post-war (or late pre-war) lightweight with chrome rims that may be original and you have some good close ups, post them up. With enough examples, maybe this will start to make sense.
My Continental (with a few black-out parts and an undated Sturmey hub:


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## Oilit (Aug 14, 2021)

A 1949 (by the hub) New World with stainless rims:








						1949 New World with Stainless S-6 Rims | Lightweight Schwinn Bicycles
					

Reading some of the threads on here got me interested in the Schwinn New Worlds, and then this one showed up on Ebay, so you can guess the rest. I paid full retail, and then I spent as much again taking Amtrak to go pick it up, so I'm already in the hole on this one, but luckily I've still got...




					thecabe.com


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## Oilit (Aug 14, 2021)

And the 1953 (green) and 1955 (gold) Travelers:


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## juvela (Aug 14, 2021)

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sad to see that collision damage - these frames are so doggone strong that it must have taken a pretty good wallop to do that   😱

the early S-6 you picture appears to be built to a higher standard than the later chrome ones

have built and also trued wheels with the later S-6 and their welds and trueness is less than ideal;  a bit frustrating when one is trying to do a good job but must accept a rather imperfect result...

will look forward to following along as you work with this machine; thank you for sharing it with the forum    😉 

congratulations on a picture taking session without crashing by the explosives experts   😼

-----


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## Oilit (Aug 14, 2021)

The frame is still straight enough it will make a good rider, but not as nice as I first thought. Luckily, I didn't pay an outrageous price, I could sell it for parts and get my money back.
And you're right, Schwinn really made an effort on these early lightweights and it shows. The later bikes are still solid machines, but the detail work isn't the same.
As for the bombers, it was pretty hot and humid taking these pictures, I think they were all stretched out in the shade. They're smart that way.


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## GTs58 (Aug 14, 2021)

Are the stainless S-6's tubular or single wall?


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## Oilit (Aug 14, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> Are the stainless S-6's tubular or single wall?



Before I say anything I'm going to pull the tire off one and check.


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 14, 2021)

Before calling it front end damage, check the top tube and down tube to see if they are all consistent with front end damage. I see the ripples in the paint there, but ripples like that can have a couple of causes and can be superficial rather than conclusive evidence of frame damage. But as you say, it could be frame damage that was slight as well. Only a full check of the frame could tell.

The other place to look for cracks on a Continental frame is where the seat stays join the seat tube. A substantial minority of the Continentals I've seen had small stress cracks in the braze joint where the seat stay joins the seat tube. It may or may not be an issue, depending on the size of the crack, and what kind of rider and riding is going on.

The rims on my pair of post-war New Worlds one 1946 and one 1947 were box-pattern, no-label rims similar to pre-war. The chrome was badly worn on all of them. They are of a tubular construction. They take the 597mm tires without issue. There is no knurling on them. The one set I have left is in a storage box at the moment in my basement. I went with a set of Stainless S6 Continental wheels on my 1947 New World. There is little comparison to be done - the Stainless S6 wheelsets are all around better wheels than standard.


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## GTs58 (Aug 14, 2021)

I've seen a couple of the early S-2 rims that were smooth on the outside but had the knurling on the inside. Did the smooth tubular S-6's have markings on the inside?

Here's a stainless S-6 that does have some knurling. Owner says it's a 1946 but has the later graphics and components as the 47 models. 













						1946 Scwhinn Continental with stainless steel rims ? | All Things Schwinn
					

Just picked up a 1946 Schwinn Continental, once I had it on my stand realized it has stainless steel rims. I have never heard of or seen this before. There is no question they are the original rims either, the bike is complete and untouched. The rims of course are almost perfect. They are made...




					thecabe.com


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## Oilit (Aug 16, 2021)

SirMike1983 said:


> Before calling it front end damage, check the top tube and down tube to see if they are all consistent with front end damage. I see the ripples in the paint there, but ripples like that can have a couple of causes and can be superficial rather than conclusive evidence of frame damage. But as you say, it could be frame damage that was slight as well. Only a full check of the frame could tell.
> 
> The other place to look for cracks on a Continental frame is where the seat stays join the seat tube. A substantial minority of the Continentals I've seen had small stress cracks in the braze joint where the seat stay joins the seat tube. It may or may not be an issue, depending on the size of the crack, and what kind of rider and riding is going on.
> 
> The rims on my pair of post-war New Worlds one 1946 and one 1947 were box-pattern, no-label rims similar to pre-war. The chrome was badly worn on all of them. They are of a tubular construction. They take the 597mm tires without issue. There is no knurling on them. The one set I have left is in a storage box at the moment in my basement. I went with a set of Stainless S6 Continental wheels on my 1947 New World. There is little comparison to be done - the Stainless S6 wheelsets are all around better wheels than standard.



I've never seen a pair of the earlier rims up close. If you get a chance to get some pictures, I would love to see them. Do you think the rims on my Continental are original or replacements?


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## Oilit (Aug 16, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> I've seen a couple of the early S-2 rims that were smooth on the outside but had the knurling on the inside. Did the smooth tubular S-6's have markings on the inside?
> 
> Here's a stainless S-6 that does have some knurling. Owner says it's a 1946 but has the later graphics and components as the 47 models.
> 
> ...



Interesting! Thanks for the link!


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 16, 2021)

There's a fold inside where the metal folds over, but I don't see any machine marks in there. The outside is pretty worn, but I don't see any center marks there either. One of the rims has a couple pin holes inside from rust and the center of the rim is hollow.


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## Oilit (Aug 18, 2021)

SirMike1983 said:


> There's a fold inside where the metal folds over, but I don't see any machine marks in there. The outside is pretty worn, but I don't see any center marks there either. One of the rims has a couple pin holes inside from rust and the center of the rim is hollow.
> 
> View attachment 1463755
> 
> ...



You're right, the inside is a different profile than the outside so it's tubular construction, and the offset on the spoke holes looks right, so that's got to be an early S-6. It looks like they almost had to move the holes towards center to clear the shoulders inside the rim, and I'm guessing the shoulders are for the beads of the (straight sided?) tires. And it sure doesn't look like there's any knurling, any sign of a stamp?
And it sounds like you would expect the Continental to originally have the better, stainless rims, so mine are probably replacements. Looking at your rims, that looks more likely to me, too. Thanks for posting!


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 18, 2021)

I do think the ladder knurl rims you have are replacements. One would expect Stainless S6 rims on a late 1940s Continental, but I suppose someone could order chrome S6 rims instead of stainless if they really wanted to. It would go against the upscale nature of the Continental to then downgrade to chrome steel rims. The wheelset is one place where you don't want to do your cost-cutting if you're trying to squeeze a little extra performance out of a bike. But if someone beats up the rims and you need replacements, you might opt for the more common S6 for a repair.

Did you ever check over the frame for more evidence of damage? Even if you have mild front end damage, there is one more chance for the frame: the Park HTS tool. The HTS married what is basically a bumper jack to a metal bar on an angle. The bar and clamps would be fitted through the headtube, and then the bumper jack portion of the tool would go against the bottom bracket shell. The screw of the jack was then turned, pushing the bar outward and straightening the frame, effectively cancelling out whatever front end bend was there. If the rest of the frame is clean, I'd be inclined to look for someone with the HTS tool or equivalent (one could make the HTS if talented enough) and try to fix it. The HTS won't work on severe damage, but if it's mild, I'd actually try to straighten the frame with the proper tool.









						HTS-1 Head Tube Straightener
					

The HTS-1 is designed to quickly correct the angle of head tubes. Tremendous leverage is generated with this tool, straightening frames with little physical effort.




					www.parktool.com


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## Oilit (Aug 18, 2021)

When you sight down the frame tubes, it actually looks pretty straight. My first impression was that the rims were replaced and the frame had already been straightened. I think I see a slight bow in the top tube, although it could possibly be uneven brazing where the tubes are joined, it's hard to tell. But you might be able to see in this picture, both top and down tubes have the stress cracks in the paint. On the other hand, the fork looks straight as an arrow.
The rims have no stamping, like some I've seen from the '70's, and if one got damaged in an accident, finding stainless rims would have been next to impossible by then. The only thing that made me wonder is why you would replace both, but maybe both were damaged. 
The bike doesn't look in bad shape, I just wish I had noticed that paint before I bought it. Oh well.


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 18, 2021)

Ah, I see what you mean. That's front end damage. Both the top and down tube have some bending. I would also be concerned about what appears ot be a buckle in the bottom surface of the top tube. Those braze joints were solid enough that they held while the tubs behind them bent.


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## GTs58 (Aug 18, 2021)

Has anyone seen the specs stating the Continentals standard issue rims were stainless? I haven't come across any that state stainless. If they were standard issue, wouldn't the Clubman use them? 





1948 spec but doesn't say chrome or stainless. 

Schwinn Breeze 26" x 1 1/4": Schwinn Whirlwind 26" x 1 3/8" optional, both on Schwinn S-6 Tubular Rim. Schwinn Puff 26" x 1" high pressure road racing tire on Schwinn S-8 "Extruded Dural" rim available at extra cost.


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## Oilit (Aug 19, 2021)

SirMike1983 said:


> Ah, I see what you mean. That's front end damage. Both the top and down tube have some bending. I would also be concerned about what appears ot be a buckle in the bottom surface of the top tube. Those braze joints were solid enough that they held while the tubs behind them bent.



That bulge worried me too, but as far as I can tell it's a blob of paint or brazing that ran down and hardened under the tube. Until I can find a better one, this one will do for a rider.


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## Oilit (Aug 19, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> Has anyone seen the specs stating the Continentals standard issue rims were stainless? I haven't come across any that state stainless. If they were standard issue, wouldn't the Clubman use them?
> 
> View attachment 1464572
> 
> ...



Schwinn never failed to advertise stainless fenders, so I can only guess that the stainless rims were only made for a short time and I just haven't seen an ad from the right period. But the 1948 catalog on bikehistory.org puzzles me. That seems to be just when the stainless rims turn up, and the balloon tire models are all specified as having S-2's either chrome plated or painted, but I can't find any description of the material or finish for the S-6. I believe the S-2 was a new introduction for 1948, so maybe they got the spotlight, but why would Schwinn make stainless rims and not advertise it? There's got to be something out there somewhere.





						1948 Schwinn Catalog
					

1948 Schwinn Catalog online



					bikehistory.org


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 19, 2021)

The stainless rims are more likely correct by simply an odds basis, but you can never say "never" with these. I'd just go with what you have. The chrome S6 is a good rim usually. My guess would be probably replacements, just based on the odds, but it's hard to conclusively say they are wrong as well. We always find exceptions turning up. They're ballpark for the bike. If they were 1970s Rigidas or the like, then it's way off, for example. 

I like the catalogs, but puffery sometimes clouds it. They give guidance but we keep finding exceptions to the basic rules. Yeah, you'd think it would mention "stainless" among all that.  But who knows what is or is not true sometimes with the catalogs. For example, page 16 would have you believe it was the Continental and not the Superior that was the mid-range bike starting in 1938. It also would mislead one into thinking that "high grade" adult bicycles were not made between something like 1900 and 1938 in the US, when we know today that some very good bicycles were built for adults in the courier, delivery, and military service fields by several companies (who wouldn't want a nice WW1 Columbia military model in their collection today?). I recall seeing an ad talking about how the New World had front-facing dropouts starting in 1938. The New World serial number chart and study here at the CABE shows it's probably more like 1940. It's puffery on some level or another - selling bikes rather than running a documentary for Schwinn.

I have a post-war Superior with a "T" series serial number. One would think T is a tandem by the basic rule, but I guess the Superiors and Tandems were drawing from the same bin of bottom bracket shells in 1949 or 50. I know of at least one other post-war Superior with a "T" series number, but I wouldn't be surprised if other numbers existed.


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## Oilit (Aug 19, 2021)

@SJ_BIKER, looking at the thread @GTs58 posted above (from 2011) you mention you have a 1946 New World with stainless rims. Have you got any good pictures? I didn't see it on Miq's list.


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## SJ_BIKER (Aug 19, 2021)

Sold them long ago but yes...did have a set


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## Oilit (Aug 20, 2021)

SJ_BIKER said:


> Sold them long ago but yes...did have a set



I figured it was a long shot, but thanks anyway.


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## 3-speeder (Aug 21, 2021)

The wheel set that was found on my 1950 Schwinn World.  Project linked below.








						My  1950  Schwinn  World  Rescue | Project Rides
					

I picked up this bike from a friends massive bike lot buy. See my post linked below. This bike is definitely crusty and needs some serious help but I feel it's  worthy of the effort. I imagine some parts aren't original and I'm not sure what's up with the blue paint on the guard and other spots...




					thecabe.com


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 22, 2021)

Interesting, those look like they have both ladder tracks inside and knurling outside. Looks like a nice condition set of  rims overall.


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## Oilit (Aug 22, 2021)

Somebody has a front wheel with the Schwinn Superior rim for sale on Ebay, with a good set of pictures. It looks like the Superior was single wall construction, not tubular. The seller calls it late 1940's, but I don't think I've ever seen a post-war bike with this rim.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133325264926?campid=5335809022


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## GTs58 (Aug 23, 2021)

Pretty common rim for prewar. Didn't Jim's 46 Continental have S-6's?


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 23, 2021)

Those Superior rims look similar to the pre-war Lobdell endrick style rims I've had on a couple of bikes. That simple, flat style with wide-set spoke holes seems to have been common in the late 1930s and early 1940s. The Lobdells had ink-type stamps inside indicating the type of tire that was intended.


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## Oilit (Aug 23, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> Pretty common rim for prewar. Didn't Jim's 46 Continental have S-6's?



The rims on Jim's bike are S-6's, with pretty clear stampings. His bike was a big part of the motive behind this thread, along with the stainless rims. For the record, his pictures are in Post #76 of this thread:








						Old Continentals, what do I do with them. | Lightweight Schwinn Bicycles
					

I have a brochure from the mid 40s time period (don't know exact year, assumed 1946). I guess I glanced over it because I thought these were NWs. I don't think I have seen a tandem with that guard type.




					thecabe.com


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## 3-speeder (Aug 24, 2021)

SirMike1983 said:


> Interesting, those look like they have both ladder tracks inside and knurling outside. Looks like a nice condition set of  rims overall.



These wheels had the guts removed from the hubs and then went in the OA bath after the rest of the bike.  The rebuilt hubs spin great but I will respoke when it comes time to use them.


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## Oilit (Aug 25, 2021)

3-speeder said:


> These wheels had the guts removed from the hubs and then went in the OA bath after the rest of the bike.  The rebuilt hubs spin great but I will respoke when it comes time to use them.



Those will make a nice set of the early rims. Thanks for posting!


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 25, 2021)

The biggest worry I have with these rims is the future availability of tires. I don't see old stock tires as a long-term solution, especially if you have more than one of these bikes and you ride a lot. For new tires we have just the Kendas, and those now are limited due to COVID (the white walls were always somewhat limited, the black and the gum a little more available). If Kenda discontinues the tires and we're down to only old stock finds, then conversion to something like a 590mm Sun CR-18 starts to become appealing. English Westricks or Endricks might also be an option. But the tires in this Schwinn size are what worry me going forward. I think there will be a stock of rims (whether Stainless or Chrome S-6) for awhile yet, but we're relying on a single manufacturer for new tires.


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## 3-speeder (Aug 25, 2021)

I checked a few of the LBSs and bought up as many tires as were available, which was three.  One of those went on a friends '71 Collegiate and I had a hard time getting that one to seat well.  It is unfortunate that the Kendas are the only option as it seems most of them aren't quite round but where would we be without em. Suddenly they'd be looking pretty good.


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## Oilit (Aug 28, 2021)

@SirMike1983, your comment about the similarity between Lobdell rims and the Schwinn Superior rims got me thinking. I posted a 1942 CWC-built "Fleet Wing" victory bike a while back, but I never saw any marking on the rims. This morning I got out my reading glasses and did some gentle cleaning and the CWC's rims are marked (it's faint, but it's there), and they are _very_ similar to the Superiors. For comparison:








						War Time CWC Lightweight | Vintage Lightweight Bicycles
					

I picked this up last weekend. Looking at Phil Marshall's chart, 1942? And what is the 42 V on the U.S. Chain Tread tires?




					thecabe.com


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## GTs58 (Aug 28, 2021)

Oilit said:


> @SirMike1983, your comment about the similarity between Lobdell rims and the Schwinn Superior rims got me thinking. I posted a 1942 CWC-built "Fleet Wing" victory bike a while back, but I never saw any marking on the rims. This morning I got out my reading glasses and did some gentle cleaning and the CWC's rims are marked (it's faint, but it's there), and they are _very_ similar to the Superiors. For comparison:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Did Schwinn actually make any of their rims prior to post war times? Or were they all outsourced and just had the markings changed (Superior) specifically for them?


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 28, 2021)

The two pre-war type rims are very similar, though I can't say as I have definitive proof they actually are the same. It's a basic enough design to stamp out that it is possible for several makers to produce very similar rims. But you're right that if you have one in each hand, it's a similar rim. It would be interesting if someone could prove Lobdell made the pre-war Schwinn endrick rims and they just had different markings.


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## Oilit (Sep 11, 2021)

I finally got around to pulling the front wheel (off of a women's Continental), and the stainless rims are indeed tubular. Why Schwinn didn't stamp "Tubular" on them is beyond me. I was going to snap some pictures and put the tire back on the rim, but the rim band has turned into something like old tar and glued itself on in a couple of spots. Anybody got any bright ideas for getting it off?
Also, the stainless wheel seems to be pretty light but I didn't have a chrome S-6 handy to compare. Has anyone ever checked the weight of a chrome rim against a stainless one? I'm wondering what gauge sheet metal was used for the stainless.
About all I know about the Continental is it's a late '40's single speed, and I put a damaged S-5 front wheel on until I finish cleaning the original. My supervisor seemed to be o.k. with that.


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## GTs58 (Sep 11, 2021)

I don't think the new S-2's had tubular stamped on them either. Try rubbing alcohol on the rim tape. I have it in a spray bottle at work and use it to clean off old gasket material among other things.


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## Oilit (Sep 11, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> I don't think the new S-2's had tubular stamped on them either. Try rubbing alcohol on the rim tape. I have it in a spray bottle at work and use it to clean off old gasket material among other things.



If it works on gasket material it should loosen this stuff. Thanks!


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