# IS this possibly an early Schwinn frame???



## bcdaddy (Feb 1, 2014)

Can anyone shed some light on this frame. Is it possibly a pre-war Schwinn? The stamp on the bottom bracket shows K 17 4404 (traced in pencil because its faint under the powder coat). I'd like to at least find a proper era head badge. Any guesses would be appreciated. Cheers!


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## jpromo (Feb 1, 2014)

Can you get a picture of the top side of the bottom bracket? Like picture 4 but dolly in on the BB. And which way are the headbadge holes oriented?


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## bcdaddy (Feb 1, 2014)

jpromo said:


> Can you get a picture of the top side of the bottom bracket? Like picture 4 but dolly in on the BB. And which way are the headbadge holes oriented?




do these pics help. The headbadge holes are vertical and about 2.5 inches apart. thanks for looking.


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## GTs58 (Feb 1, 2014)

There was/is an outfit that made a frame like that which resembles the prewar Schwinn. I'll be damned if I can remember the manufacturers name now. I bet Island Schwinn could tell you if that's one of their frames.


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## island schwinn (Feb 1, 2014)

the one GT is thinking about was made by maple island and was a cantilever style.this one doesn't look to be schwinn due to the welds on the frame.not sure what it is.


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## bcdaddy (Feb 2, 2014)

island schwinn said:


> the one GT is thinking about was made by maple island and was a cantilever style.this one doesn't look to be schwinn due to the welds on the frame.not sure what it is.




island Schwinn-  thanks for the input. Do the serial numbers: K 17 4044 eliminate the possibility of a Schwinn? I know old Schwinn records were destroyed but I thought the letter and numbering sequence might still indicate a Schwinn model. Any thoughts on the stamped numbers on the BB? Thanks!


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## rhenning (Feb 2, 2014)

That is the wrong kind of number sequence for a Schwinn number.  The way the tubes go into the bottom bracket is totally wrong for a Schwinn also.


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## Larmo63 (Feb 2, 2014)

BB looks like H.P. Snyder......


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## bcdaddy (Feb 3, 2014)

Larmo63 said:


> BB looks like H.P. Snyder......




Thanks for the feedback. Any suggestions on how to do more research or where to check the serial numbers? Are NBHAA reports a good idea for a frame like this with the limited information I have? Thanks


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## rhenning (Feb 4, 2014)

I doubt you will find what it is from the serial number.  Unlike cars they generally have no real meaning.  Even Schwinn numbers that have date codes don't tell you anything but when the frame may have been built.  In one case I have a Schwinn frame that was built in 1975 that didn't become a bike until 1977.  Schwinn serial numbers were also repeated from time to time.  Your best is to look at as many old pictures of old bicycles as you can until you see one with the same frame and then assume that is what you have.  In some cases that doesn't always help as most manufacturers made bikes and put other peoples names on them in addition to their own.  Roger


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## cyberpaull (Feb 4, 2014)

*not sure I agree.*



rhenning said:


> I doubt you will find what it is from the serial number.  Unlike cars they generally have no real meaning.  Even Schwinn numbers that have date codes don't tell you anything but when the frame may have been built.  In one case I have a Schwinn frame that was built in 1975 that didn't become a bike until 1977.  Schwinn serial numbers were also repeated from time to time.  Your best is to look at as many old pictures of old bicycles as you can until you see one with the same frame and then assume that is what you have.  In some cases that doesn't always help as most manufacturers made bikes and put other peoples names on them in addition to their own.  Roger




I disagree. For the most parts the frame dates and the assembly dates were pretty close to spot on in regarding to frame date and model year of bike. YES there are some exceptions and there are some years when serial numbers did overlap. In those cases for the most part if the bike has most of the original parts it can be determined the year. Exception of frame only viewing.


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## tailhole (Feb 4, 2014)

I vote no on Schwinn on this one.  The tube joins look wrong.  Cool bike, none the less.


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## bcdaddy (Feb 5, 2014)

tailhole said:


> I vote no on Schwinn on this one.  The tube joins look wrong.  Cool bike, none the less.




Thanks for all the feedback. Any guesses at all?? I'd like to at least try and narrow it down the proper decade of manufacture.


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## rhenning (Feb 6, 2014)

Generally but not always rear facing rear dropouts mean pre WW2.  Roger


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## tailhole (Feb 6, 2014)

*motorbike*

It's a motorbike style frame, my guess is mid 1930's since it looks to accept 26" wheels (likely making it post '32) and then this frame style pretty much disappeared by the early 1940's.


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## 2jakes (Feb 8, 2014)

bcdaddy said:


> Can anyone shed some light on this frame. Is it possibly a pre-war Schwinn? The stamp on the bottom bracket shows K 17 4404 (traced in pencil because its faint under the powder coat). I'd like to at least find a proper era head badge. Any guesses would be appreciated. Cheers!
> 
> View attachment 135086











 This is an early * Mead Ranger* frame on eBay which looks similar...


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## GTs58 (Feb 9, 2014)

2jakes said:


> This is an early * Mead Ranger* frame on eBay which looks similar...




Nice job in a comparison shot. It is similar but the frame in question has a much smaller diameter chainstay tubing. The quest continues!


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## 2jakes (Feb 9, 2014)

bcdaddy said:


> Thanks for all the feedback. Any guesses at all?? I'd like to at least try and narrow it down the proper decade of manufacture.




With what you have provided, my guess based on the similarities  to the
Mead, would be "prewar".


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## Larmo63 (Feb 9, 2014)

The frame in question is pre war, a motorbike style, and in most opinions here,

NOT Schwinn. The connections at the bottom bracket look similar to an H.P Snyder

framed bike I have. The fork looks later, like an Ashtabula style (maybe Schwinn)

and doesn't seem consistent with the age of the frame. Don't waste your time/money

and frustration with Mr. Dixon.


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## bcdaddy (Feb 10, 2014)

2jakes said:


> This is an early * Mead Ranger* frame on eBay which looks similar...




Awesome detective work with the comparison photo! That helps. Still working on it. The fork question is interesting also. Would this fork typically not be original to this frame? Is this a later style fork (post war)? Sorry for all the questions. Clearly a rookie here. Thanks !


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## 2jakes (Feb 10, 2014)

bcdaddy said:


> Awesome detective work with the comparison photo! That helps. Still working on it. The fork question is interesting also. Would this fork typically not be original to this frame? Is this a later style fork (post war)? Sorry for all the questions. Clearly a rookie here. Thanks !








Prewar Columbia



Prewar Iver Johnson.

These are some of my prewars & I would say that your 
fork leans to the prewar style.

btw: don't feel sorry about the questions...hell...I'm just a rookie too

Soon we'll get an expert & blow my answers to smithereens !   :o


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## Adamtinkerer (Feb 12, 2014)

I'd say Shelby, like mine.


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