# HD Motorcyke



## Canuck (Jun 28, 2019)

Hi all,

So my grandmother recently passed away and as another family member and I were going through a barn at one of her properties which contained items that had belonged to my great grandfather, I found a number of bikes. One of which was hung from a back wall and which I could not get a good look at. What  caught my eye on this bike was the dust covered, yet still shiny, chainring appeared to have letters stamped into it. This week a family member was finally able to access the bike. He told me the letters in the Chain ring were “H”s and “D”s, and the model name on the frame was “Motorcyke”.  Obviously, this is a Harley Davidson Motorcyke from 1918 to early 1920s. The bike has likely hung on the wall since long before I existed and apparently appears to be in relatively decent condition. Original paint doesn’t appear to have been eaten away by rust, at least from what he could tell once he wiped away the inch of dust that had built up on the bike. It even has the leather seat bag that came with the bike, and which appears in the HD catalog. Whether parts or missing or have been replaced I don’t know, and won’t until I see it and take a look at it.

I suspect my great grandfather picked this bike up, maybe even as original owner, and then parked it in the barn. He did that sort of thing a lot.

My plan, once I am able to pick the bike up is to service it and ride it. My family is a cycling family and between the four of us we probably have over 10 bikes in our garage - road, mountain bike, cyclocross/gravel. Although most of our current bikes are carbon. So this new addition will be a little different.

So thoughts on what I may have, and whether it is a good idea to intend to ride a bike like this? 

Tim


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## redline1968 (Jun 28, 2019)

Post some pics sounds like a rare bike.. if it’s for sale/trade let me know....I preserve them and don’t ride them but you can ride it without any problems tires are available at 300+/-  for 28’s


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## Rust_Trader (Jun 28, 2019)

Post pictures, I would be interested if it becomes available. I have at least 7k for you, for a nice original.


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## catfish (Jun 29, 2019)

Would love to see some photos.


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## ZE52414 (Jun 29, 2019)

Be prepared for your Inbox to fill up with messages. Your about to be the most popular guy on the cabe.


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## Freqman1 (Jun 29, 2019)

Tim bikes can be ridden and preserved. Provided the rims are not warped, dry rotted, or split you can buy some tires to fit these rims and enjoy the bike. Another alternative is to save the old wheelset and buy a readily available set on EBay for about $600 with modern clinchers and a good service you should be able to ride all day. The only other part I may set aside would be the seat. You never mentioned selling but if this is as nice as you describe an auction would probably be the better route to avoid leaving money on the table. V/r Shawn


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## Euphman06 (Jun 29, 2019)

Can't wait for the pictures!


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## DonChristie (Jun 29, 2019)

Sorry about your grandmother, Tim! Sounds like grampa was a cool guy! You have a solid plan to keep and ride it! We all want to see pics! It would be classic if you found a pic of gramps on the bike!


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## Canuck (Jun 29, 2019)

Thanks for the replies everyone. I think I get the idea from these responses and the numerous private messages and there is some potential that this is a pretty special and valuable bike. Only way to find out is for me to get a relative to take some  pictures for me so I can post or to drive down and get the bike myself. 

My interest is not in selling, but in riding and enjoying the bike. I am a bike guy, just until now it was modern bikes!

It may be a while before I post again as it may take a while to get pictures or the bike itself. But I will do so once I have additional information as I can tell there is a lot of interest.


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## cyclingday (Jun 29, 2019)

There’s an old bike in a barn, you say?



It’s got an H-D on the sprocket you say?
$20,000 in untouched decent original condition!
I’ll be back, I’m going to fill up the canteens.


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## OldSkipTooth (Jun 29, 2019)

This has all been one big hallucination.


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## cyclingday (Jun 29, 2019)

On a serious note, please try to not have your relatives clean or alter the bike too much from it’s as found condition.
Take that process very slow, and let your initial enthusiasm subside a bit before you do anything to the bike.
And if the bike has to be hauled in an open bed truck, cover the saddle with a shower cap, and strap it upright like you would a motorcycle.
I would love to see it in its as found condition if possible.
Plus, it would be good for a family album down the road.
This may be a tangible legacy of your family history.
Pretty cool way to remember those who’ve passed and to give to those yet born.


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## bikebozo (Jun 29, 2019)

I have a great set of chain tread tires for 250.00


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## SKPC (Jun 29, 2019)

Maybe this guy? Way slick profile..


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## GenuineRides (Jul 1, 2019)

Please let this be a real untouched original bike, then the rest of us can maintain our motivation to continue to look for others...they are still out there aren't they!


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## fordmike65 (Jul 1, 2019)

Pics leaked of this untouched original...


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## catfish (Jul 1, 2019)

https://www.thedrive.com/news/21644/you-can-now-buy-a-4200-bicycle-from-harley-davidson


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## Canuck (Jul 1, 2019)

My understanding is that it looks like the first of the three pictures above. Remember, all I could see of it was part of a  dusty dark coloured frame and the front crankset.  I have now been told it’s an olive green and the paint is in excellent condition. Weathered and faded a little, but all there, even on the fenders.

If it is what it appears to be, is it it’s rarity that makes it a special and valuable bike? Or is it simply that it’s a part of HD history? Or combination of both?

And how rare are these? Are their hundreds still in existence?


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## Allrounderco (Jul 1, 2019)

Nice! I like the idea of using it. Sounds like you should notify your insurance agent


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## Freqman1 (Jul 1, 2019)

Its hard to say how many originals are left. These are one of those cross-over items that is sought by both bicycle and motorcycle folks. I suspect there are more of these than we realize due to that fact. We know in the bicycle community that they are scarce but I suspect that more than a few originals are tucked away with some motorcycle guys. You will find the same kind of thing with Flying Merkels and Indians. What I can tell you is that there are a lot of fake HD bicycles out there as both the badge and chainring have been reproduced. As you may or may not know HD did not build these bikes. They were made by Davis Sewing Machine so if you get a Davis bike you can change the badge and ring and have a HD. If you really want to learn the story here is the CABE thread https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/show-your-davis-built-bicycles.20560/  V/r Shawn


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## rusty.kirkpatrick (Jul 1, 2019)

Let’s go with the pics!


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## cyclingday (Jul 1, 2019)

Yeah, my feeling with most of the really desirable bikes, is that if it’s be redone/repainted/restored, then, it’s a fake bike.
Now, I know that doesn’t sit well with the people with restored bikes, but the only way to truly tell of a bikes authenticity, is if it’s still in its factory original condition.
So that holds a tremendous amount of value to the type of collector willing to spend a substantial amount on an old bike.
The Motorcyke was the flagship model for the bicycles that Harley Davidson had consigned the Davis Sewing Machine company to build for them.
These bicycles were some of the finest made at the time, so quite a few other brands also consigned with Davis to build the bikes that would carry their name.
Davis was owned and operated by George Huffman, who was the patriarch of the family that would eventually be Huffman Mfg. and then the Huffy corporation that we remember as kids.


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## gkeep (Jul 1, 2019)

Congratulations on your family heirloom. Like everyone here I'm looking forward to your photos, this bike would be a great rider and real conversation starter.

If it has 28" steel clincher rims and not wood single tube rims you can get tires from a bike shop in Australia that will fit. Check these 37x642 tires/tyres made by Vee Rubber. http://www.moruyabicycles.com.au/contents/en-uk/d973_28-inch-tyre.html. The old 28" tire size is still used in Southeast Asia and common up into the 70s in Australia. The tires are about $20 US each but shipping will be $70 for up to 3 tires. My last order I bought 3 to have a spare. They work great on my circa 1916 Pierce and I've put a few hundred miles on them.

Best of luck with your project and have a great time riding it!

Gary


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## ZE52414 (Jul 1, 2019)

Probably 98% of people use camera phones. Why not have your relative snap a photo, then send it to you, so you can show us.


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## SKPC (Jul 1, 2019)

If you are on the up and up(pics or not true) and it is an unmolested Davis HD Motorcyke with original parts, then good for your family.
If I were you Sir Canuck, I would barely wipe the dust off with a soft cotton cloth and then stare at it for awhile and behold hand made history.
You would regret selling it..


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## Archie Sturmer (Jul 1, 2019)

The H-D could actually be a D-H, of the Delancy P. Harris fame, (e.g., Rollfast); a common mistake by barn stormers.


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## frankster41 (Jul 2, 2019)

Here are the two I have


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## Canuck (Jul 5, 2019)

Pictures


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## Canuck (Jul 5, 2019)

Still has wood rims in good looking condition, but rims look to have been painted as they appear to be silverfish in colour. Maybe


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## ZE52414 (Jul 5, 2019)

Whooooa!! Looks awesome!! To bad it has the 2 gnarly frame repairs. Thank you for the pics!! Congrats on the find.


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## fordmike65 (Jul 5, 2019)

Canuck said:


> Pictures
> 
> View attachment 1025870
> 
> ...



@cyclingday


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## OldSkipTooth (Jul 5, 2019)

Nice bike. Let’s not embarrass the old boy by mentioning the battle scars, let’s revel in the delight of what has been preserved! With some patience and skill it could be returned to quite presentable, and as you have said, rideable condition!


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## Canuck (Jul 5, 2019)

Yes noticed the bad repair. May look into having that redone.


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## SKPC (Jul 5, 2019)

The bad repair(2 spots)  doesn't really hurt the bike.  Find someone who cares who can re-do it better. It will cost you but will be worth it.  The spray-bombed black paint can be carefully removed from over the light green paint when you have the two bad welds re-done.  Carefully.  Beautiful bike and lucky your family still has it...so nice!  Wonderful to see something like this.  You_ must_  hang onto it.  Thanks for sharing and stick around to provide more pics as you clean it up.


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## Canuck (Jul 5, 2019)

Neither this one or the Pierce i mentioned in my other post will be for sale. Goal is to ride them. They will be our neighbourhood bikes and will hang on wall in our family room when not in use.


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## cyclingday (Jul 5, 2019)

Yeah!
That is fantastic!
Ask, how many people have your great grandpa’s old Harley Davidson bicycle, and you’ll be lucky if one person raises their hand.
That bike looks magnificent, and it’s very likely that Gramp’s made those frame repairs, and if he didn’t, then I’ll bet one of his best buddies did.
If you choose to clean those up, then treat it like the Mona Lisa, and have them done forensically.
Meaning, take it slow and be methodical in your approach.
But, since your plan is to keep and enjoy, that really isn’t necessary, unless it’s just something that you feel should be done for peace of mind.
My guess is, that your bike is a 1918 model, which is very similar to the model 418 that I own.
They ride very nicely once you’ve serviced and adjusted everything.
I was fortunate, that my bike came with steel clincher rims that allowed me the ease of mounting modern tires, which made setting it up for riding that much easier.
As cool as the wood rims are, it does make finding a suitable modern tire much more difficult.
Any way, good luck in which direction you choose to take, and good luck with it.
Thank you very much for sharing it with us.
I for one, am very impressed!
Take care,

Cyclingday


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## cyclingday (Jul 5, 2019)

Here’s an art shot of my H-D model 418


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## cyclingday (Jul 5, 2019)




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## cyclingday (Jul 5, 2019)




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## Canuck (Jul 5, 2019)

Thanks for the pictures and scans of the manual. Will be helpful n deciding how to approach this and what to do.


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## Goldenindian (Jul 5, 2019)

Thanks for sharing the pictures of that beautiful HD!! Glad it got out to see the light of day. The heavy duty fork is a special bit on that machine, not to many Harley’s have the heavy duty fork. Which also points to an earlier model like 1918. Would love to see more pictures....please add to the https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/show-your-davis-built-bicycles.20560/page-36#post-1026433 thread when you get a chance. Thanks for sharing with the cabe community.


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## redline1968 (Jul 5, 2019)

Wow nice.. those repairs are knarly    I’d leave it alone. Repairs might not be a possibility but who knows...


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## New Mexico Brant (Jul 5, 2019)

Canuck said:


> Thanks for the pictures and scans of the manual. Will be helpful n deciding how to approach this and what to do.



It is your bicycle and you can do with it what you wish but please don't restore/repaint it!  Even with the fug'ly frame repairs, overall the bicycle still retains much of the original paint which makes it very valuable.  If you have those frame breaks repaired and then completely repaint the bike it'll be worth only a fraction of what it would sell for as it now sits.  The best solution would be to have someone experience with period bicycles repair the frame areas and have a paint conservation person in-paint the affected areas to match the original paint.
Another option would be to keep this as a show piece and built a tribute Harley to ride in honor of your grandfather.


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## Canuck (Jul 5, 2019)

We have a shop up here in Ottawa that specializes in retro rides. I have heard a lot of good things about them so I may stop in and have a chat with them. However I suspect this is a little more retro than they are used to.

I don’t want to repaint. I want it to stay looking how it does. I would be curious if that repair could be undone, and then Redone properly, with only the repaired area subject to paint.


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty (Jul 5, 2019)

Awesome bike !






PS, it can be redone !


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## Freqman1 (Jul 5, 2019)

Canuck said:


> We have a shop up here in Ottawa that specializes in retro rides. I have heard a lot of good things about them so I may stop in and have a chat with them. However I suspect this is a little more retro than they are used to.
> 
> I don’t want to repaint. I want it to stay looking how it does. I would be curious if that repair could be undone, and then Redone properly, with only the repaired area subject to paint.



It can but needs to be someone that specializes in this kind of work. It probably won't be cheap but then again a machine like this only deserves the best. I would ask for references and examples of past work because if someone screws this up there is no going back. Congrats on a fantastic piece of history. V/r Shawn


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## redline1968 (Jul 5, 2019)

Might as well restore it ....it will never be the same after you try to fix it...value will always be at a “ repaired  restored bike” mind set...


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty (Jul 5, 2019)

Question for the experts. This Harley looks exactly like the same frame and forks as my 1918 Elgin -








I was led to believe my Elgin was an Excelsior built bike so the question I have is did Harley build bikes from Excelsior sourced frames ?


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## stoney (Jul 5, 2019)

Thanks for the pics and GREAT find, congrats. Don't think of those repairs as bad or crap repairs. Think of them as good repairs, that someone way back when thought enough of the bike to do the repairs and save it. Rather than to the trash pile with it. I would leave them, as many say, they are part of the bikes history. If that were mine I would not be selling it and I pretty sell anything. Again, congratulations.


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## Goldenindian (Jul 5, 2019)

ThegoodThebad&Therusty said:


> Question for the experts. This Harley looks exactly like the same frame and forks as my 1918 Elgin -
> 
> View attachment 1025986
> View attachment 1025983
> ...



Tho small...there is one difference that never crosses manufactures. The Michigan city (excelsior) built bicycles have a “volcano” joint.. the bar comes out of a hole. NO Davis built bicycle has this feature. The Davis has a “fish mouth” joint. Tho the “tank space” is visionally the same the frame are not(in construction)  
Michigan city 


Davis


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## Canuck (Jul 5, 2019)

Okay, if I leave the repair as is, is it a bad idea to try to remove the black spray paint? On the head tube one would think there is still olive green paint u see the black spray paint.


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## cyclingday (Jul 5, 2019)

There’s a guy named Dave Stromberger that would be your man on this dilemma.
He knows what to do and how to only remove what’s needed, and to only replace what’s needed.
He can be contacted here at The Cabe.
I can’t say, whether he would want to take this project on, but my gut feeling, is that he would be a good place to start.
Your local retro shop sounds like a bad idea.
They don’t have any experience with this type of heirloom.
Dave has the background and experience, this wouldn’t be his first rodeo.
@Dave Stromberger
You would not regret this route.


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty (Jul 5, 2019)

Canuck said:


> Okay, if I leave the repair as is, is it a bad idea to try to remove the black spray paint? On the head tube one would think there is still olive green paint u see the black spray paint.




Honestly if you're leaning towards leaving the repairs as is, I wouldn't worry about the black paint right now. Break the bike all the way down, clean all the bearings and inspect the hubs/bottom bracket bearing cups and cones for damage then re-grease and reassemble. From the images you provided the chain looks good.  While you're going through the bike figure out what you're going to do regarding tires and rims. By then the bike will have grown on you and those cosmetic issues may not seem so important. You can always deal with the cosmetics later.


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty (Jul 5, 2019)

If you are willing to spend the money, here is a source for some period correct single tube tires that would work on those wood rims - http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=121118220290


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## rusty.kirkpatrick (Jul 5, 2019)

Put it on Ebay and get paid,  you can buy a few awesome bikes for what you'll get.


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## piercer_99 (Jul 5, 2019)

your bike is pretty sweet just as it is.

I am with the ones saying that the repair may be ugly, but they have lasted through time.   For what it is worth, I would just clean it up, service it and ride it as is, it is all part of the bikes story and history.      I have  a bike with a wicked repair at the head from the bottom tube, it rides great and I am not going to change it.

Your Grandfather left you part of his memories to treasure.   Enjoy them and someday pass them on to your grandkids.

congratulations.


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 5, 2019)

Euphman06 said:


> Can't wait for the pictures!



Me neither.


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 5, 2019)

rusty.kirkpatrick said:


> Put it on Ebay and get paid,  you can buy a few awesome bikes for what you'll get.



Screw ebay. Who needs the stupid ass fees!!


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## Euphman06 (Jul 6, 2019)

You don't have to wait... scroll up


razinhellcustomz said:


> Me neither.


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## jimbo53 (Jul 6, 2019)

Beautiful bike! Very nice seat stay rear carrier mount. Have not seen this before, but I don’t get around much...
Any info on this carrier is appreciated.


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## ZE52414 (Jul 6, 2019)

Isn’t the rack and dropstand all in one? I feel like I’ve seen one before on here. Guessing, but most likely Davis specific.


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## cyclingday (Jul 6, 2019)

The parts catalog shows this one.
It has the seat stay type attachment, but it looks a little different than the one on your bike.
I’ve been keeping a casual eye out for the one shown in the catalog, but still haven’t ever seen one exactly like what is shown.


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## stezell (Jul 6, 2019)

I had the rack/dropstand combo for sale a while back.


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## SKPC (Jul 6, 2019)

Sir Canuck, could you provide better pics of your Rack/Stand especially near the rear axle?   And of the bend area in the frame top?  Also the bend in one of the slats: it appears the slat is bent from downward pressure of gear or people onto the fender,(the frame attachments may have slipped down a bit)  but the fender looks unaffected.  It's so different than the other similar looking teens racks. Marty?


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## PCHiggin (Jul 6, 2019)

Cool oldie,Pre '37 not really my interest but I'd like to ride it. Wonder if the brakes work better than their motorcycles?


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## redline1968 (Jul 6, 2019)

I’d leave alone too.. no sense in doing anything but display it.. those welds are all over on the tubes he probably paint black on it for the paint underneath was burnt by the torch...and if he used  a torch it probably changed the structure of the tubes.. so I’d leave it alone looks like it was used after the welds....or in a long shot....it would look nice next to my indian...lol :0........that rack is interesting .. not connected to the stand..


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## Canuck (Jul 6, 2019)

I will take some addition pictures of the stand this evening for you.

On another note, I am more convinced my great grandfather was original owner. He would have been early to mid teens 1918. When I got home I Noticed another set of letters on down tube after “Motorcyke”.    Very very faint only visible in bright light.  At first I thought it was the remnants of another bicycle name and  my great grandpa was making knock offs. But in better light I could tell it wasn’t a brand name, instead it was his name. From what I can tell he even tried to use a similar colour as Motorcyke was written in. Adults don’t write their names on their bikes, but a 13 or 14 year old might.  Also, you would write your name on a shiny new bike because you wouldn’t want it to be stolen. You wouldn’t write it on a bike that was in used condition as the threat of theft would not be high. 

I will be having old family pictures checked to see if I can find one of him on this as teen.


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## Canuck (Jul 6, 2019)

SKPC, hope these help.
Also upon closer inspection the rack appears to have been painted black at some point in its life. Some of the black paint has been chipped away and under that it appears to be he same colour olive green as the rest of the bike.


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 8, 2019)

ThegoodThebad&Therusty said:


> Question for the experts. This Harley looks exactly like the same frame and forks as my 1918 Elgin -
> 
> View attachment 1025986
> View attachment 1025983
> ...



It's not! These wre  made by the Davis sewing machine manufacturing company. Good luck. Razin.


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 8, 2019)

jimbo53 said:


> Beautiful bike! Very nice seat stay rear carrier mount. Have not seen this before, but I don’t get around much...
> Any info on this carrier is appreciated.
> 
> View attachment 1026111



It's o.e.m. I have seen this on an early h-d bike that hung from the rafters at mischlers h-d in beaver dam wisconsin. Very rare bike. Razin.


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 8, 2019)

Canuck said:


> I will take some addition pictures of the stand this evening for you.
> 
> On another note, I am more convinced my great grandfather was original owner. He would have been early to mid teens 1918. When I got home I Noticed another set of letters on down tube after “Motorcyke”.    Very very faint only visible in bright light.  At first I thought it was the remnants of another bicycle name and  my great grandpa was making knock offs. But in better light I could tell it wasn’t a brand name, instead it was his name. From what I can tell he even tried to use a similar colour as Motorcyke was written in. Adults don’t write their names on their bikes, but a 13 or 14 year old might.  Also, you would write your name on a shiny new bike because you wouldn’t want it to be stolen. You wouldn’t write it on a bike that was in used condition as the threat of theft would not be high.
> 
> I will be having old family pictures checked to see if I can find one of him on this as teen.



My grand father would have been 19 in 1918. So he might have had his name on a bike this rare. Thievery was rampant in the early part of the last century. These bikes probably sold for one months pay or more. My grand parents were married in the early twenties, so this might have been like a motorcycle now days. A luxury item. Razin.


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 8, 2019)

ThegoodThebad&Therusty said:


> If you are willing to spend the money, here is a source for some period correct single tube tires that would work on those wood rims - https://www.ebay.com/itm/BICYCLE-WO...068798&hash=item1c33356002:g:9UAAAOSwW6BZ7m2Z
> 
> View attachment 1026009



Yeah, but for how much money?  Iv'e seen these go for insane amounts of money. (450.00 + each} Razin.


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty (Jul 9, 2019)

razinhellcustomz said:


> Yeah, but for how much money?  Iv'e seen these go for insane amounts of money. (450.00 + each} Razin.




He's asking $495 for a pair with free shipping. When you consider the historical significance of this bike and the fact that I believe the new caretaker inherited it, (doesn't have a ton of money invested in it already) that's a small price to pay for keeping the bike as period correct as possible and still be able to ride it. For this rare of a bike, I personally think that's a better option than going the Velosity Blunt direction like I did with my Elgin to get it back on the road. This of course is dependent on how true the OG wooden wheels are.


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## Canuck (Jul 9, 2019)

no idea whether they are the original wood rims. They appear to have been painted an off silver at some point in their life. Once I have time I will take a closer look to see if their is any army green paint ( I think the original colour the rims would have been painted) hiding under that silver. 

I currently have 8 road/cyclocross bikes, 5 mountain bikes, and 2 bmx, that my family of four rides on an ongoing basis, that I maintain and replace tires on every few years. So in the grand scheme of things, it’s not a big deal to add a couple antique bikes to the rotation. Tires may cost more, but I suspect their lifespan will be a lot longer than the ones that get daily use.


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty (Jul 9, 2019)

Canuck said:


> no idea whether they are the original wood rims. They appear to have been painted an off silver at some point in their life. Once I have time I will take a closer look to see if their is any army green paint ( I think the original colour the rims would have been painted) hiding under that silver.
> 
> I currently have 8 road/cyclocross bikes, 5 mountain bikes, and 2 bmx, that my family of four rides on an ongoing basis, that I maintain and replace tires on every few years. So in the grand scheme of things, it’s not a big deal to add a couple antique bikes to the rotation. Tires may cost more, but I suspect their lifespan will be a lot longer than the ones that get daily use.




Oh yeah, they've been painted over. One thing You haven't elaborated on yet that could add a piece to the puzzle is what is the rear hub ? Back in 1918 it should have been a ND model A or possibly an Eclipse Machine or another more exotic brand like a Corbin or Atherton,  something along those lines. I imagine the front hub is a ND model M.


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## Canuck (Jul 9, 2019)

Will name/brand of hub be stamped on hub? Or will people in this board be able to tell from a picture of the hubs?


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## Euphman06 (Jul 9, 2019)

Both.. It should be stamped, maybe even on the brake arm. 

Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty (Jul 9, 2019)

Canuck said:


> Will name/brand of hub be stamped on hub? Or will people in this board be able to tell from a picture of the hubs?




Yes, on the barrel of the hub and or the brake arm. You can also tell by the shape of the barrel if you can't see any stampings. New Departure model A's have an hourglass profile. When they transitioned to the model C and later they had a straight profile with an oil port in the middle.


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty (Jul 9, 2019)

Euphman06 said:


> Both.. It should be stamped, maybe even on the brake arm.




You know in that closeup of the rear dropouts there appears to be a shoulder on the flanges just below the spoke holes. That doesn't look very New Departureish to me.


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 9, 2019)

Canuck said:


> no idea whether they are the original wood rims. They appear to have been painted an off silver at some point in their life. Once I have time I will take a closer look to see if their is any army green paint ( I think the original colour the rims would have been painted) hiding under that silver.
> 
> I currently have 8 road/cyclocross bikes, 5 mountain bikes, and 2 bmx, that my family of four rides on an ongoing basis, that I maintain and replace tires on every few years. So in the grand scheme of things, it’s not a big deal to add a couple antique bikes to the rotation. Tires may cost more, but I suspect their lifespan will be a lot longer than the ones that get daily use.



A cheaper route would be to go to a later clincher style rim with 28" or the 700cc rims and tires. A lot cheaper in the long run. Razin.


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 9, 2019)

PCHiggin said:


> Cool oldie,Pre '37 not really my interest but I'd like to ride it. Wonder if the brakes work better than their motorcycles?



Probably not. HANG ON AND FEET DON'T FAIL ME NOW!! Hee!! Hee!! Razin.


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 9, 2019)

cyclingday said:


> The parts catalog shows this one.
> It has the seat stay type attachment, but it looks a little different than the one on your bike.
> I’ve been keeping a casual eye out for the one shown in the catalog, but still haven’t ever seen one exactly like what is shown.View attachment 1026240



Could be a later style rack, Maybe 20's era. Razin.


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 9, 2019)

redline1968 said:


> I’d leave alone too.. no sense in doing anything but display it.. those welds are all over on the tubes he probably paint black on it for the paint underneath was burnt by the torch...and if he used  a torch it probably changed the structure of the tubes.. so I’d leave it alone looks like it was used after the welds....or in a long shot....it would look nice next to my indian...lol :0........that rack is interesting .. not connected to the stand..View attachment 1026254



Is this a Davis model by chance? What year? This is one of the nicer ones iv'e seen. Beautiful bike. Enjoy. Razin.


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty (Jul 9, 2019)

razinhellcustomz said:


> A cheaper route would be to go to a later clincher style rim with 28" or the 700cc rims and tires. A lot cheaper in the long run. Razin.




Still going to cost over $400 with new spokes and a set of McCasky's 1" nipples and that's if you lace the wheels yourself. Don't even think about suggesting he goes with those Walmart 29'ers on that bike.
There was a fellow CABER who listed and sold a real nice looking 28" steel clincher wheel set last Sunday for $350 but they had blackout hubs laced in that would have been out of place on that Harley.
Also luxlobikes has a nice steel clincher set listed on ebay for $425 including shipping but you would have to add the cost of tires spokes and nipples to that which would bring the total to around $625+-


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 9, 2019)

It's his money. I was just suggesting a cheaper route.


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty (Jul 9, 2019)

razinhellcustomz said:


> It's his money. I was just suggesting a cheaper route.




You don't cheap out on a 1918 mostly unmolested Harley Davidson bicycle, you go for it and do everything you can to preserve the historical accuracy of the bike. My same vintage Elgin on the other hand, not such a big deal. Besides my bike had mismatched wheels (one steel and one wooden) and a rear hub swapped out from a later year when I bought it.


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 9, 2019)

You want to help this guy out or  throw cheap shots at me? Make your point now or keep your STUPID comments to your Self. Don't take every thing out context. Some of you guys make no sense at all!! Take a BREATH!!!!


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty (Jul 10, 2019)

razinhellcustomz said:


> You want to help this guy out or  throw cheap shots at me? Make your point now or keep your STUPID comments to your Self. Don't take every thing out context. Some of you guys make no sense at all!! Take a BREATH!!!!




Dude...really ? I have been helping this guy out. Let's not buzzkill this thread OK.


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## Rambler (Jul 10, 2019)

@Canuck If your desire is to preserve this HD bike as original as possible and be able to ride it, I don't understand why are people suggesting changing rims. Assuming there is nothing wrong with the rims currently on this HD there would be no reason to change them. Simply purchase Robert Dean tires which glue on the rims and air up exactly like the original tires. No swapping of rims or other modifications to this otherwise very original HD required.

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/reproduction-28-tires.143402/page-2#post-997151

Be sure to carefully remove the original tires because they may still have value as display tires if you choose to sell them or keep them because they are the tires your grandfather rode the bike on. Either way good luck to you, nice HD bike you have there.


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## bike (Jul 10, 2019)

The all white tires from schwinnstore on ebay are heavy cause they are solid and do not hold air - not ride-able in my opinion. Bonus for display bikes you do not have to air them up


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## Canuck (Jul 10, 2019)

Pictures of hubs:


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty (Jul 10, 2019)

Front hub is a New Departure model M and the rear I'm pretty sure is a Morrow, formerly Eclipse Machine. I don't know if that Morrow is period correct for 1918. May be some date code stamped in the barrel of the hub shell when it's cleaned off.


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty (Jul 10, 2019)




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## bikebozo (Jul 10, 2019)

I have a beautiful set of steel clad wheels with like new ,pneumatic chain tread tires , if anyone is interested


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 10, 2019)

ThegoodThebad&Therusty said:


> Dude...really ? I have been helping this guy out. Let's not buzzkill this thread OK.



No DUDE here!! Your the buzz kill!! ADIOS!!


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## razinhellcustomz (Jul 10, 2019)

Canuck said:


> Pictures of hubs:
> 
> View attachment 1028624
> 
> View attachment 1028625



Are these metal clad wheels? Very unusual for this bike. COOOOL!! Razin.


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## Canuck (Jul 11, 2019)

Not metal clad. Wood painted silver.


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## SKPC (Jul 11, 2019)

As you can see, your bicycle foments much interest from us enthusiastic watchers.  As and avid daily cyclist myself, I am thrilled to see that so far you have done nothing until you gather all the pertinent information to see where you go with it .  This gives me and others I am sure great confidence you will do the right thing.  I ride a bunch of modified old bikes for fun and daily on modern MTB's but if I had this particular one I most likely would not ride it or modify it to ride really at all,  new wheels or not.   You will be mostly unimpressed with it's riding characteristics and as you can imagine, it could become a curse to expose it too much to us nutty old-bike-heads.  Fun and unique, but if you looked away for 10 seconds, it would be gone.  Attention you have not asked for I am sure is piling on and you and will feel the strain for sure.  Keep us posted on your conservation efforts and reach out to those who you deem can give you solid advice...skpc


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## redline1968 (Jul 11, 2019)

rear hub is a replacement should be a hour glass style New departure  ......makes sense since it looks like he rode the h--ll out of it..


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## fattyre (Jul 11, 2019)

SKPC said:


> You will be mostly unimpressed with it's riding characteristics





BOOM! 

  These bikes look way cool, but the ride is generally less than desirable.   Super soft old metal, very slack geometry, long wheel base and a rather unusual fit by todays standards.   And if you have any significant elevation changes forget it.   Fine for short rides a couple of miles here and there, but not a very remarkable ride in many ways.


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty (Jul 11, 2019)

They're parade/show bikes now, not cross trainer fitness marathon bikes. Those 28" wheels cover a lot of ground on relatively flat surfaces like the So Cal coast ride from Newport to Long beach. I could imagine quite a crowd gathered around if you rolled up and dropped the parking stand in front of the stadium steps by the HB pier.

Not to mention the feeling you get when you ride a bike that's a hundred years old


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## Canuck (Jul 11, 2019)

Parade bike??? Pfft, I have a 85 km gravel race I’m riding this bad boy in around middle of August. Do they make HD spandex?

But yes, in all seriousness, no rush to do anything to the bike at this point. Wife has agreed it can be art in our living room for now.  I will probably pick up a wheelset built around the velocity rims I have seen mentioned on here, just so I can get riding it out of my system. Then slowly continue to educate myself and come up with a game plan.


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty (Jul 11, 2019)

Heh...getting the wifey on board to allow the bike in the house is a major hurdle. As far as riding it, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that 90% of the bikes the people on this blog collect and post images of themselves riding all over Hell's half acre were designed for and marketed to...pre-teen kids ! The TOC (Turn Of the Century) bikes were more designed for adults to ride.

At any rate, you know what you are now don't cha ? You're a brother of the wheel my friend !


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## bikewhorder (Jul 11, 2019)

Nice bike!


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## Canuck (Aug 2, 2019)

Thought I would post some updates pictures. Wife was complaining that bike and living room smelled dusty and old. After being kicked out of house due to my suggestion that her complaint likely resulted from her poor attempt at vacuuming the previous weekend, I agreed to at least wipe the bike down. Wd-40 and a soft rag. Clearly something slightly more aggressive would be needed to remove some of the crud, but I’m okay with it as is. Also noticed when whipping the head tube that some of the black paint was coming off and revealing some green underneath. Might explore that further at some point.

Also took the rack off as it was pretty clear to me that it did not fit the bike. One of the cross bars needed to be bent up to fit the bike.


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty (Aug 2, 2019)

Looking good ! The next time the wife tells you that bike smells 'dusty and old' just tell her that's the smell of money !


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## jwages (Aug 2, 2019)

That Motorcyke [emoji2956]


John | East Sac CA
What’s in your barn?


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## cyclingday (Aug 2, 2019)

Fabulous!


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## Brutuskend (Aug 2, 2019)

That is one FINE looking piece of history!

I was hoping to inherent MY grandfathers HD ( the gas powered version) but some lowlife stole it and ran it off of a cliff at the Oregon coast.  

Stolen from my cousins facebook page. https://m.facebook.com/kathy.huntgr...n.50:story_attachment_style.album&__tn__=EH-R

I suck at stealing stuff. The link dosn't work...


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## Brutuskend (Aug 6, 2019)

My grand father on his HD


With my cuz on the back.


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## stoney (Aug 6, 2019)

Brutuskend said:


> That is one FINE looking piece of history!
> 
> I was hoping to inherent MY grandfathers HD ( the gas powered version) but some lowlife stole it and ran it off of a cliff at the Oregon coast.
> 
> ...




Hopefully the lowlife went over the cliff with the bike. Sorry it had to happen with your grandfather's bike though.


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## Brutuskend (Aug 6, 2019)

I did end up with his jacket.
Until another low life stole that....


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## Rust_Trader (Jun 14, 2020)




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## razinhellcustomz (Jun 14, 2020)

Canuck said:


> Thought I would post some updates pictures. Wife was complaining that bike and living room smelled dusty and old. After being kicked out of house due to my suggestion that her complaint likely resulted from her poor attempt at vacuuming the previous weekend, I agreed to at least wipe the bike down. Wd-40 and a soft rag. Clearly something slightly more aggressive would be needed to remove some of the crud, but I’m okay with it as is. Also noticed when whipping the head tube that some of the black paint was coming off and revealing some green underneath. Might explore that further at some point.
> 
> Also took the rack off as it was pretty clear to me that it did not fit the bike. One of the cross bars needed to be bent up to fit the bike.
> 
> ...



Beautifull bike and a rare one at that. Any idea what year it is? Thanks for sharing and Ride On. Razin.


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## Balloonoob (Jun 14, 2020)

catfish said:


> https://www.thedrive.com/news/21644/you-can-now-buy-a-4200-bicycle-from-harley-davidson
> 
> View attachment 1024087



"In classic Harley-Davidson fashion, this newest model is loaded with outdated technology and doesn’t come close to what its competitors offer for a fraction of the price."


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## razinhellcustomz (Jun 14, 2020)

Brutuskend said:


> My grand father on his HDView attachment 1042273
> With my cuz on the back.



Nice old Harley. Do you happen to know if it was a Knucklehead or a 45? Cool bike. Thanks for sharing. Razin. P.S..It really sucks about your grandpa's bike's untimely demise. God's speed.


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## razinhellcustomz (Jun 14, 2020)

Balloonoob said:


> "In classic Harley-Davidson fashion, this newest model is loaded with outdated technology and doesn’t come close to what its competitors offer for a fraction of the price."



Are you talking about bicycles or motorcycles? Having been a fan of the motor company for 50+ years, nothing could be further from the truth. Check out the new Live Wire. Very cool bike. Razin.


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## bleedingfingers (Jun 15, 2020)

I am currently working on a 1920s bike and I am going to use readily available in Canada set of vintage CCM wheels with a nice set of Schwalbe tires.
You can find skip tooth chain wheels  for them and they are not expensive .
That would make your bike a good rider and you have the original wheels for display .
There are tons of them in Ontario.
You have a very fine bike there  enjoy it


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## JO BO (Jun 21, 2020)

ThegoodThebad&Therusty said:


> Question for the experts. This Harley looks exactly like the same frame and forks as my 1918 Elgin -
> 
> View attachment 1025986
> View attachment 1025983
> ...


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