# Rust Bucket Autocycle At Close To $4000,  Am I Missing Something



## frankabr. (Oct 11, 2011)

There is a rust bucket Autocycle on Ebay that has about 6 days to for the auction to end.   It appears to a real rust bucket that would cost thousands to restore (if possible).   I've seen beautiful show winners that are original or have been perfectly restored for about the same price.   Why would someone bid so high for one that is in horrible shape?

F.A.


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## slick (Oct 11, 2011)

*Rust Bucket Autocycle At Close To $4000, Am I Missing Something*

Whatever you're missing i'm missing too. I totally agree! Total pile for what it's up to. I've seen quite a few nicer orginal paint ones go for less money.


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## Talewinds (Oct 11, 2011)

*This One?*

http://www.ebay.com/itm/fresh-barn-...ltDomain_0&hash=item4cfac50a22#ht_1738wt_1398


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## Freqman1 (Oct 11, 2011)

Personally I don't think that bike is as bad as it looks. Elginbike just sold a '38 on Ebay for $3950 that was restored by Bob Strucel. I think what this bike has going for it is that it is original, has the pogo seat and more importantly a genuine, albeit, rough crossbar speedo. You could spend years (and/or many thousands) trying to find the correct parts to replicate this bike. I do think if it goes much higher it would be tough to justify with a quality resto on top of the purchase price though. Jus my 2c. v/r Shawn


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## meteor (Oct 11, 2011)

*What you're missing...*

...is the allure of an all original discovery, an untouched, "uncollected virgin" bike with incredible character. it has provenance to boot. i wouldn't doubt if this bike could stay close to as is by new owner. isn't that crossbar with odometer worth a couple thousand? "Barn Fresh" is worth a lot, too.


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## squeedals (Oct 11, 2011)

Personally.....I would rather have a good condition not so rare original. Rare is one thing.......but that bike is a rust bucket any way you look at it. I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....and this beholder wouldn't fork over good money for it, I don't care how rare it is. Maybe this is an example of "obsession" we all discussed a while back.


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## serg (Oct 11, 2011)

Speedometer from a similar bicycle

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PREWAR-SCHWINN-BICYCLE-ODOMETER-SPEEDOMETER-VINTAGE-/120789733638?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1fa11106


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## Freqman1 (Oct 11, 2011)

Now throw in the tank, the seat, and the fender bomb and you can see why this thing is generating the interest (price) it is. v/r Shawn







serg said:


> Speedometer from a similar bicycle
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PREWAR-SCHWINN-BICYCLE-ODOMETER-SPEEDOMETER-VINTAGE-/120789733638?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1fa11106


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## Rust_Trader (Oct 11, 2011)

It looks like a nice bike that should clean up decent. So I contacted the seller wondering how much he wanted locally and also asking for more detailed pictures.

No pictures

He wants $9500 for it. :eek:


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## hzqw2l (Oct 11, 2011)

*Sandblaster?*



Greens07 said:


> It looks like a nice bike that should clean up decent.




Now That's Funny.


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## slick (Oct 11, 2011)

*Rust Bucket Autocycle At Close To $4000, Am I Missing Something*



Greens07 said:


> It looks like a nice bike that should clean up decent. So I contacted the seller wondering how much he wanted locally and also asking for more detailed pictures.
> 
> No pictures
> 
> He wants $9500 for it. :eek:





$9500!!!!!!!??? Now that's funny! Somebody has been watching too much Pickers. Yes it has rare parts but they are all in need of restoration. Once it's restored it loses it's character in my opinion. I just think the patina is a little too rough for the price that it's at already.


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## Xcelsior (Oct 11, 2011)

*Hate 2 burn your bridges buddy*

I got a nice bridge I would like to sell locally to anyone for 9500!  Who do these people think they are?  The thing is, somebody will be dumb enough to probably pay it.  Dont be stupid people! C'mon!


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## Larmo63 (Oct 11, 2011)

*Let the market say what it is worth*

I guess it's worth what someone will pay for it. I think the price it is at right now would be a fair FINAL purchase price. I wouldn't bid on it at all, too far gone for me.


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## rustyspoke66 (Oct 11, 2011)

Its hard to tell just how rough it is with some of the blurry pictures. Plus this one just listed looks like a great deal but not as deluxe.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1935-Schwin...ultDomain_0&hash=item4cfacdd8b7#ht_500wt_1361


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## schwinnderella (Oct 11, 2011)

This bike got 11 bids in the first couple of hours after it was posted and was up to around 4600.00.Now it only has three bids and the bid has dropped.Three bidders have cancelled bids all for the same reason. I suspect some shill bidding.


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## VintageSchwinn.com (Oct 11, 2011)

It is unfortunate for the seller as it's not his doing.  I am currently the high bidder.


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## squeedals (Oct 12, 2011)

Greens07 said:


> It looks like a nice bike that should clean up decent. So I contacted the seller wondering how much he wanted locally and also asking for more detailed pictures.
> 
> No pictures
> 
> He wants $9500 for it. :eek:



   Note that there are three bid cancellations on this too.........add the almost $10,000 wish price by the seller and you can see that this hobby can be an obsession to say the least. Like I said......I would rather have 10 more common bikes in nice condition and for $1000 each we are talking about some beauties. A CABE poster has 4 absolutely gorgeous bikes for $3500....all for one price. Now......to me,that is a good deal. If anyone insists on paying out a large amount of cash for this rust bucket, rare or not.....have at it. This is not a slam on the folks bidding on the bike.....to each his/her own......I just can't justify the price with what you end up with.


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## teisco (Oct 12, 2011)

Yes better to have your eggs in many baskets, and that was 5 bikes for one price


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## markivpedalpusher (Oct 12, 2011)

Obviously I'm chiming in late here...It's all relative the value here is in the cumulative parts. I would really like to see Santi get all the painted parts minus the tank!


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## squeedals (Oct 12, 2011)

teisco said:


> Yes better to have your eggs in many baskets, and that was 5 bikes for one price




That's right.....5..........even better!!! i can't believe someine has not jumped on that one yet. Like I said.....if I had the $$$ I would have. :o


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## VintageSchwinn.com (Oct 14, 2011)

I'm the high bidder.  DO NOT OUTBID ME!!!


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## J.C. (Oct 15, 2011)

VintageSchwinn.com said:


> I'm the high bidder.  DO NOT OUTBID ME!!!




*Have at it Mr. dot com.  That thing is junk!  That said, Santi (as the pedalpusher said) would be perfect for that bike.  Bid away....and try not to retract this time rusty-spokes*


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## VintageSchwinn.com (Oct 15, 2011)

Yes, bid away.


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## 1959firearrow (Oct 15, 2011)

Wow is all I have to say about this. I would never pay over $150 on initial purchase not including restoration/customization for any bike that way my hobby stays affordable and it doesn't turn into an obssesion. As for the asking price and current bid on this bike you guys can have it lol, I can think of way better things to spend $3500 on than that. Come to think of it 3500 is enough to redo every bike I have worth redoing and fix up my 54 ford f100 a good amount too lol. Happy bidding 8)


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## fatbike (Oct 15, 2011)

*Remember this a "hobby".*

I'm not personally bidding on the bike. But I do understand the rarity of complete high-end bicycles in any condition. Sometimes you need to jump on something when its available if thats your thing for what ever your willing to pay. You might not have another opportunity or cash on hand if you must have something in particular. High-end bicycles are few and far in between to come by. Some bikes circle around the hobby multiple times over the years making some models appear more available then they are. Everyone has different taste on what there after or willing to pay for any condition the bicycle may be in. There are some guys that love the challenge of bringing something completely rough back that is rare that have restoration skills, it gives them satisfaction and don't mind the cost. Remember this is a hobby. We pick and choose the level of what were after for different taste and reasons. Now there are different types of collectors in the hobby in it for different reasons. Some choose working man bicycles, non- deluxe. Some choose to have several of all kinds of bicycles at the lowest cost as possible it holds more value to them" more is better to the individual". Some have a few and choose each one to be a high-end deluxe bicycle where every part is worth as much as most mainstream easer to acquire bikes "less is more". Aaron I can understand why your after this particular bike.


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## PCHiggin (Oct 15, 2011)

*Not Worth It*

That bike wont be worth half what it takes to restore it. Look what similar ones in nicer condition have sold for lately.Look what the pickers sold theirs for,way nicer than this pos.I'm thinking a real amature is being told some bs about it to keep him bidding.Pat


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## VintageSchwinn.com (Oct 15, 2011)

I guess we all know the saying "Opinions are like......, and everyone has one."


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## VintageSchwinn.com (Oct 16, 2011)

Received 21 "additional pics" from seller.  Let's just say he has CLEARLY shown the best the bike has to offer in his eBay listing.  The door has literally fallen off the tank now,the other side of the tank without the door is completely rotten through.  Every item of chrome on the bike looks like it came out of the Titanic, that kind of rust that actually grows like a tumor, there is about 1/3 of the pogo seat pan remaining, I'd be amazed if it's even able to roll.  I've NEVER seen a ND hub with that much rust on it, ever.

Anyone who may be interested in the bike, feel free to shoot me your email, happy to forward the pics I got from the seller.


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## Bicycle Belle (Oct 16, 2011)

*Confused here*

Ok is schwinn.com the high bidder or not? Or was there a note of sarcasm that went right over my head?


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## prewarbikes4sale (Oct 16, 2011)

*$$$$$$$$$$$*

Lotsa parts dollars there.........


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## Talewinds (Oct 16, 2011)

WOW! Back to ZERO bids. No surprise though, anyone who's actually bought a VERY rusty bike knows that when it's in that condition it truly is worthless, bummer. 
 Seller should revise the listing to $.99 and see where it goes.


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## oldbikehome (Oct 16, 2011)

prewarbikes4sale said:


> Lotsa parts dollars there.........




True. It may be rough but there are some very rare parts on that bike. I am  not offering and opinion on the value just sayin' lots of HIGH BUCK parts.


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## VintageSchwinn.com (Oct 16, 2011)

I WAS the high bidder, but then the seller sent me 21 pics which he apparently sent the other bidder as they canceled their bid, too.  I respect the seller for being forthcoming and sending the additional pics (as they display the bike in a MUCHHHHHHH more accurate light).  It is an absolute DISASTER bike.  Apparently he's mad about the bid retractions, but I contacted him yesterday and asked what he'd like to do, cancel my bids or for me to cancel, as the pics shed a lot more light on the bike and I was no longer interested, a legitimate reason to cancel a bid according to eBay.

There are some nice parts on it (the aluminum ones), but the steel and iron and chrome is DESTROYED.


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## partsguy (Oct 16, 2011)

Sounds like it needs to be crushed and someone can have a nice foot stool! 

Yea, as crumbly and pitted as it is, its over!


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## squeedals (Oct 17, 2011)

Watched this saga from the start. The pics I saw were clear enough for me......the metal was too far gone for any reasonable resto job. The value WAS in the parts that could be salvaged. To me, all the drama on this thread was an eye opener on just how far we as collectors will go to get that Holy Grail bike. Also.......as one poster realized, more pics are worth a thousand words and if we are dishing out big bucks, more pics should be a given to really see what you might end up with. I have been burned by this on eBay......NOT asking for more pics and relying on what you see. This has been a good lesson for me and I now ask for more pics......depending on the item and the money involved. Nothing worse than opening up the box to a pig in a poke. 

All the girls look prettier at closing time..........  

    Don


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## nathanAGNEW (Oct 17, 2011)

Well its a pre-war Schwinn, so thats cool.
Everything is there also.
Sometimes its hard to find pre-war boys bikes in complete shape.
Other than that it looks like a pile of crap.

There might be some rich old man buying it to remind him of his childhood.
I couldn't (wouldn't) buy something in that shape.


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## fordsnake (Oct 17, 2011)

I mentioned this once before...that it is now possible to bring any rust bucket back to life by spraying new metal onto it's rusty metal, i.e., the frame, the tank, and fenders!  

It's a new technique that restores and repairs rusted metal by spraying on pure zinc. The zinc galvanizes to the old metal so it won’t ever rust again...and what’s amazing about this technique it can fill pinholes or holes up to a foot wide! The metal can be applied as fine as .001 thousands of an inch and can build up to one foot thick. So never say die to those old crusty rides…they still have life and can be recycle!


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## Talewinds (Oct 17, 2011)

Fordsnake, I remember you mentioning that before in the thread surrounding another absolute disaster, I believe it was that Shelby Airflow that had mostly returned to the earth. It's an intriguing option, but I have to imagine it costs a fortune, being so new and specialized a process. Just seems like one of those things that's more suitable to a rare Ferrari or Lotus race car from the 60's and very uneconomical for old bicycles. Can you shed some more light on the process???


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## OldRider (Oct 17, 2011)

Where was that zinc process 20 years ago when I had to deal with a rusted out floor pan in my 65 Cuda? This sounds amazing, albeit probably very pricey.


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## Andrew Gorman (Oct 17, 2011)

"metal spraying" has been around for a century- here is the first link I found:
http://www.metalspraysupplies.com/about/what-is-metal-spraying.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_spraying
http://www.sculptor.org/Foundries/MetalSpray.htm

I wouldn't really want to ride a zinc bike- honestly Bondo would do as good a job.


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## Talewinds (Oct 17, 2011)

Andrew Gorman said:


> "metal spraying" has been around for a century- here is the first link I found:
> http://www.metalspraysupplies.com/about/what-is-metal-spraying.htm
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_spraying
> http://www.sculptor.org/Foundries/MetalSpray.htm
> ...




Well that's the other thing. Sprayed zinc won't provide much real structural support, so it is no better than bondo or glazing on a bike frame. It WOULD do good to help recreate decayed tanks, but for example, in the case of this thread's topic, sprayed on zinc won't do anything to help restore the tank door and hinge mechanism that's rotted and fallen off.


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## fordsnake (Oct 17, 2011)

*Zinc Metalizing*



> Sprayed zinc won't provide much real structural support




Hmmmm, I guess that's why the company who does it, does it especially on hot rods and classic car restorations, and the last thing on their radar is structural integrity! The technique came to my attention when I was looking to repair my rod truck (see attachment). The driver side of the door was riddled from shot-gun pellets, and the roof had a puncture hole in it about the size of a baseball. My body man suggested that I buy another cab and door and he would replace the compound curves with the donor parts. Then I ran across this process...and it sounded like the perfect way to go, to "bond" metal to metal.


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## slick (Oct 17, 2011)

*Rust Bucket Autocycle At Close To $4000, Am I Missing Something*

Why don't they do a youtube video demo of this stuff? I do classic car restoration and I honestly won't believe that stuff until I see it. Nothing against you Mr. Fordsnake, i'm just saying. If it is sort of like liquid metal then what type of texture does it come out in? And how many hours will you have in sanding,filing,etc.... I'm assuming most of the details would be lost on intricate items? It's just like chrome work, ya they can get it to be plated after how many hours of sanding down pits and losing the detail of the item as well as rounding off sharp corners etc... I AM a FIRM believer on saving stuff form being scraped and preserving history in all shapes and forms but there is a point where money and value come into play. Not such a big deal for me if i'm doing it for myself but when the customer has to pay me to fix a POS and I have hundreds of hours into repair, take into consideration finding a cleaner part to start with even if it is a bit more money than the POS you started with and pay me less man hours to repair it. Ya, i'd be losing money but I also won't be killing myself to give you a perfect product and reinventing the wheel to bring it back up to shape in the end which every customer wants.


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## frankabr. (Oct 18, 2011)

*I Started This Post Out Of Curiousity . . .*

Hi.  I started this post out of curiousity but it is amazing where it went.  I did not know who the potential buyers were, or who the seller was.   But one thing I did know is that questions needed to be asked.   The bicycle collector world is still relatively small, but growing.  We need to look out for each other.

Further, when I later read that the seller was looking for $9500, that really raised some red flags.

Condition is 80 to 85 percent of the issue in most collector worlds.   Rarity is only a part of the equation. 
A few years back I used to collect vintage cameras.   At gatherings and camera shows, the first thing that any collector would look for is condition.   Marks, dents, etc., immediately reduced value by as much as 50 percent.

Originality and condition should be just as prized in the bicycle world.   Sure, a quality repaint or restoration job is nice (albeit expensive), but originality should be prized above all.    

My feeling,   F.A.


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## Talewinds (Oct 18, 2011)

fordsnake said:


> Hmmmm, I guess that's why the company who does it, does it especially on hot rods and classic car restorations, and the last thing on their radar is structural integrity! The technique came to my attention when I was looking to repair my rod truck (see attachment). The driver side of the door was riddled from shot-gun pellets, and the roof had a puncture hole in it about the size of a baseball. My body man suggested that I buy another cab and door and he would replace the compound curves with the donor parts. Then I ran across this process...and it sounded like the perfect way to go, to "bond" metal to metal.




Well that kinda confirms it.... good for body components, door skins, roof panels, even floor pans on cars and fenders, tanks and chain guards on bikes. 
  So was the process 30-40-50% less than acquiring replacement body parts?


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## squeedals (Oct 18, 2011)

frankabr. said:


> Hi.  I started this post out of curiousity but it is amazing where it went.  I did not know who the potential buyers were, or who the seller was.   But one thing I did know is that questions needed to be asked.   The bicycle collector world is still relatively small, but growing.  We need to look out for each other.
> 
> Further, when I later read that the seller was looking for $9500, that really raised some red flags.
> 
> ...





Frank, this is the best take I've seen. We can make excuses all day long why we pay what we pay for a bike, but there is a line of sensibility to collecting that SHOULD guide our purchasing decisions. When does emotion get in the way of common sense? Do we really need that bike no matter what the condition and the price? Price on ANY collectable is driven by three factors.....condition and rarity and how many want the same item. 

Now....I don't know the number of un-restored bikes like the one here, are left out there in barns and in attics....maybe someone does, but I would guess that there are some left in better shape than this rust pile and maybe you'll get lucky enough to find one.

eBay has changed the collecting world in good ways and bad ways........good that it makes more of what we collect available.......bad because it presents bidding wars and drives up prices (maybe) higher than they realistically and fairly should be........


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## bobcycles (Oct 18, 2011)

*1937 autocycle*

Autocycles were Schwinns most extravagant prewar effort, the opportunities to pick these bikes up are few and far between these days.  I can remember when very clean originals were 2500-4000 range in the late 80's early 90's.  Times have changed, and awareness is nationwide now regarding anything old, interesting and of potential value.  The ending price was very fair for a bicycle with complete crossbar speedo set up in relatively good shape... alone they have changed hands upwards of 2500.00.  Try and find a complete original autocycle console and see what you spend.  It's all about stepping up when the right project comes along.  Amusing foot note on that bicycle... With all the publicity of antique and collectibles these days, shows like pickers, pawnstars, storage wars and the like, it's surprising that anything changes hands for pennies on the dollar.  This bicycle was purchased at a storage auction along with 3 other balloon bikes.  The guy who bought it, bought ALL four bikes from the individual who bought the storage unit contents.  He paid the storage unit buyer FORTY DOLLARS for 4 bikes.  The autocycle was one of them.  He admitted he had no idea what it was until he poked around on the internet.  True story.


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## frankabr. (Oct 19, 2011)

*I Could Have Guessed*

I could have guessed that this was one of the "lucky find" type situations.   Clearly the seller should be very happy to receive over three thousand dollars for an investment of $40.00.   Why would the seller be unhappy with this result?

 It seems to me, however, that hunting for top dollar, for a bike in this condition, and by someone who is clearly not in the hobby but is out to make money from a storage unit find, is ???  (I'll let you fill in the blank).


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## squeedals (Oct 19, 2011)

All I can say is that I would not want to tackle a resto job on it........the time..........the money involved.......just a ton of work. I love old bikes but there is a limit on what I'm willing to take on when it comes to restoring......Holy Grail or not. When does collecting become an obsession? The buyer should ask themselves that question. I suppose if you have the extra money and the strong desire to posses something rare, then have a blast.



   Don


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## markivpedalpusher (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm sure it's been said in this thread it's doubtfull this bike will get a full resto but rather the parts will find new homes to complete other AUTO-CYCLES which will contribute greatly to number of complete AUTO-CYCLES in the hobby. So in the end it's all good


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## Larmo63 (Oct 19, 2011)

*Maket is market*

Just like that Airflow that was all the rage this summer on here and Ebay, whomever wants to step up to buy something, buy it. The market is the market and it finds it's own level. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, (Goodtime Charlie's got the blues?) 

'Nuff said....


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## GenuineRides (Oct 21, 2011)

*original and Genuine*

With the number of fakes and repops hitting the market today, and some of the mis-information that filters through the net, I believe a purchase of an intact example of an original bike like this is well worth the supposed "ridiculous" high price, even though it's far from "good" condition.  Value isn't in condition and rarity alone.  What a great reference piece!  And the buyer(s) can be confident they are receiving Genuine parts.  Plus some people don't have the time or can invest the effort to "get lucky" and find some of this stuff, let alone at a cheap cost, so they just buy it.  And what is wrong with hedging and investing...10 years from now a fender bomb could be worth???
GenuineRides


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## cyclingday (Oct 21, 2011)

One of the things, that amazed me most about this bike, was that at some point in its life, the double adjustable stem was replaced with a cheap pressed steel one, and the speedo console would have had to be removed to be able to do that.
The fact that the most valuable and desireable part of the bike found its way back on to the bike after that type of a change out, is nothing short of a miracle!


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