# Another Schwinn World...But A Traveler...Rusty...1952...



## HARPO (Jan 15, 2021)

Just got back from picking this one up. Its been on Facebook Marketplace for almost 6 months after the guy kept lowering the price. I offered $50 and he turned me down, but I said "_you keep the incorrect seat and then how about $50_" and he said yes.

I'm going to assume early 1950's...possibly 1952... according to the hub and cool head badge. BUT...the rim on the rear wheel appears to be from a Raleigh. I don't think Schwinn used this type ever, did they?
Grips are newer, but brakes (not pads) and levers look original, even down to the cables.

Front, rusty rim has a bend in it like I've seen before. Looks like someone tried to fix a flat with a pair of pliers!
But, I like the fact that at least the AS seat bolt is still there. Usually they're swapped out for something from Home Depot.

Overall...questionable condition. I'm still happy to have it, especially if 1952 does turn out to be the year (I can't find a serial number) because then we share a birth year!

Tons of "as found" pics, as usual.


----------



## HARPO (Jan 15, 2021)

...and more... 

Seems like $50 is my go-to price lately when it comes to an old Schwinn


----------



## HARPO (Jan 15, 2021)

Judging from the cool looking Head Badge...I'm going with 1952...

@rennfaron  would you concur?


----------



## Oilit (Jan 15, 2021)

Your rear rim looks like a Schwinn S-5. Schwinn used these on a lot of lightweights, just not this early. It has the same bead seat diameter as the S-6, 597 mm, and it looks like it's got a Schwinn tire, which wouldn't fit a Raleigh rim. It will be interesting to see how well that bike cleans up. The finish might still be pretty nice under the dirt. And I heard somewhere that the vertical lines in the "wings" on your badge were only used the first year.


----------



## HARPO (Jan 15, 2021)

@Oilit I hope you're correct! And DUH, I never even looked at the tire to see if it was a Schwinn!! 

Happy to say, that if it is a '52, I'm in _much_ better shape!!!


----------



## Roger Henning (Jan 15, 2021)

This is a picture of mine which I believe is a 1952 or 3.  I also have a 1963 Traveler that is basically the same bike.  Roger


----------



## Oilit (Jan 15, 2021)

Off the top of my head, I think yours is a '53. I believe the '52's were still using the round "New World" badge. But I could be wrong. And are you looking for the serial under the bottom bracket or the left drop-out?


----------



## 3-speeder (Jan 15, 2021)

My '53 doesn't have the the small vertical lines in between the horizontal lines on the headbadge. Serial on left dropout on mine. I would think 53 with that hub date stamp but maybe not.


----------



## HARPO (Jan 15, 2021)

@Oilit @3-speeder


----------



## HARPO (Jan 15, 2021)

Looks like *C92974 *and according to the chart, 1952 it is!! And my Birthday, give or take, of June 28th...


----------



## rennfaron (Jan 15, 2021)

HARPO said:


> ...and more...
> 
> Seems like $50 is my go-to price lately when it comes to an old Schwinn



I just saw that one on FB yesterday (although listing said Listed 23 weeks ago...)! Yup, the vertical lines on the badge are consistent with '52 year only. See my head badge breakdown here.

Levers are original to the traveler of that time and also commonly found on raleighs at the time (you generally see these listed on ebay as raleigh levers). Stem, bars, shifter, pedals, hub, tires...everything else looks correct. And yes, that seat that was in the ad was just one of those crap schwinn cushion saddles you see for $15 on ebay. The rear rim kind of just appears to be a later S-5 rim, but can't really see it all that well. Those had the raise ridge down the center. (edit - grips are wrong and later 60s grips)

Nice grab for $50.


----------



## HARPO (Jan 15, 2021)

rennfaron said:


> I just saw that one on FB yesterday (although listing said Listed 23 weeks ago...)! Yup, the vertical lines are consistent with '52 year only. See my head badge breakdown here.
> 
> Levers are original to the traveler of that time and also commonly found on raleighs at the time. Stem, bars, shifter, pedals, hub, tires...everything else looks correct. And yes, that seat that was in the ad was just one of those crap schwinn cushion saddles you see for $15 on ebay. The rear rim kind of just appears to be a later S-5 rim, but can't really see it all that well. Those had the raise ridge down the center.
> 
> Nice grab for $50.



23 weeks is just 1 week short of 6 months...

And the bike was 4 1/2 miles from my house.


----------



## 3-speeder (Jan 15, 2021)

That is a cool bike. I love the black color and the decals really pop.  Another good score.  Seems you live in the center of the bike deal universe.


----------



## SirMike1983 (Jan 15, 2021)

As to the rear rim, if it's 36 hole drilling and fits the Schwinn ISO 597 tire, it's an S5 rim. If it's 40 hole and the Schwinn pattern tire is too big, it's a Raleigh. It looks like an S5 to me just from the pictures, but the numbers will tell the tale when you examine it. (If it turns out to be a Raleigh rim and you want to sell it, I might be interested in buying it as a spare.)

Schwinn used quite a few of the "alloy" shell hubs as upgrades over steel. You see a fair number of 36 hole alloys around. You will also see the 40-hole alloys, but it seems like Schwinn actively acquired the alloy hubs as an upgrade because they turn up with a fair amount of frequency.

It's a good buy. There's enough there to make a good project of it. Nice bike.


----------



## Oilit (Jan 15, 2021)

rennfaron said:


> I just saw that one on FB yesterday (although listing said Listed 23 weeks ago...)! Yup, the vertical lines on the badge are consistent with '52 year only. See my head badge breakdown here.
> 
> Levers are original to the traveler of that time and also commonly found on raleighs at the time (you generally see these listed on ebay as raleigh levers). Stem, bars, shifter, pedals, hub, tires...everything else looks correct. And yes, that seat that was in the ad was just one of those crap schwinn cushion saddles you see for $15 on ebay. The rear rim kind of just appears to be a later S-5 rim, but can't really see it all that well. Those had the raise ridge down the center. (edit - grips are wrong and later 60s grips)
> 
> Nice grab for $50.



I knew I saw that badge somewhere! Thanks for the refresher!


----------



## Oilit (Jan 15, 2021)

3-speeder said:


> My '53 doesn't have the the small vertical lines in between the horizontal lines on the headbadge. Serial on left dropout on mine. I would think 53 with that hub date stamp but maybe not.
> View attachment 1339413
> View attachment 1339414



The hub date threw me, too. They must have been rushing to catch the Christmas sales!


----------



## rennfaron (Jan 15, 2021)

3-speeder said:


> That is a cool bike. I love the black color and the decals really pop.  Another good score.  Seems you live in the center of the bike deal universe.



Totally agree on the black paint and these decals on the older ones. They have a really good look to them.

Here are two early black ones I had/have ('52 and '54 respectively). The first one I bought off ebay and discovered that the frame/fork/guard had a bunch of repainted areas and the decals had also been painted over in areas and had vinyl decals placed over the SCHWINN lettering, so I sold the frame. The second one (images 2 and 3) I still have. I think on the first one someone thought they were doing the right thing by sprucing it up but should have just left it alone because the original condition was not bad at all.

There is another bike out there on ebay where the guy did the same thing...  It was for sale on FB for $100 in really nice original condition and then this guy bought it, sprayed red over the entire bike even over the guard decal...and added $1,100 to the price to flip it (I am pretty sure it was originally listed at $1,200). Beware of that bike... It looks really nice but has been messed with.









bught


----------



## HARPO (Jan 15, 2021)

*Thanks guys for all the info!* 

And @Oilit you were right about checking the rear tire to begin with. @SirMike1983 Rim is an S5, so original it is.  

When the bike was listed months ago at $200, I actually offered him $100 and he turned me down. I kept it on my "Saved" listings, and when he lowered it to $100...well, here we are. Never hurts to ask! 

And I actually have the correct fenders for this bike on the Continental I have that needs the repaint. Maybe I'll switch them over at some point. 
But great bike @rennfaron !

And yes, the grips should be the Script version.


----------



## HARPO (Jan 15, 2021)

And I also found out that this head badge is one year only. Cool!


----------



## rennfaron (Jan 15, 2021)

HARPO said:


> And I also found out that this head badge is one year only. Cool!



Yep, those badges do not pop up that often. Most don't even know they exist out there and may think it is just a regular winged badge. It is a really cool 1 year ('52) only detail.

And those grips would be the script OVAL version.

The original saddle would be a badged Schwinn, Wrights or Brooks. They basically all look the same and came standard on the early Travelers.

Also, those fenders will work and look the part, but those you have are the early 60s versions and not the 50s version. They look exactly the same with just a small difference in the rear fender tab that attaches between the stays.


----------



## HARPO (Jan 15, 2021)

@rennfaron  Thank you for all your wisdom!! _MUCH appreciated!_


----------



## jimbo53 (Jan 16, 2021)

HARPO said:


> Just got back from picking this one up. Its been on Facebook Marketplace for almost 6 months after the guy kept lowering the price. I offered $50 and he turned me down, but I said "_you keep the incorrect seat and then how about $50_" and he said yes.
> 
> I'm going to assume early 1950's...possibly 1952... according to the hub and cool head badge. BUT...the rim on the rear wheel appears to be from a Raleigh. I don't think Schwinn used this type ever, did they?
> Grips are newer, but brakes (not pads) and levers look original, even down to the cables.
> ...



Beautiful bike! Love the Schwinn/Raleigh lightweight bikes. It seems Schwinn was lukewarm to its commitment to this postwar platform, instead concentrating on their marquee models; B6, Hornet, Panther and Phantom instead. They missed the adult recreation/commuter customer, concentrating on the youth market with its automobile-centric marketing of the day with chrome, fancy colors and accessories. 
The bike culture of postwar Britain and the US were totally different; in Britain a bike was a transportation necessity, in the US it was something for kids and teens to ride for fun, and the market followed the consumer. 
These New Worlds are a little appreciated aspect of American biking history and I appreciate Harpo’s and others dedication to preserve and study these bikes. Well done and I appreciate all the input to this post-a real history education!


----------



## HARPO (Jan 16, 2021)

@jimbo Since the bike and I share a birth date _(give a day or so)_, this is one that will remain with me. Who out there ever gets a chance for something like this to ever happen. 
Seems like the bike waited all those months for me to be the one to come and claim it.


----------



## Goldenrod (Jan 16, 2021)

The pliers fix proves that not all stupid people are living today.  Nice old rider that has just found by a skilled daddy.  It is safe from damaging tools and it will roll again.


----------



## Adamtinkerer (Jan 16, 2021)

If you decide to test the front brakes with that rim, please video it for us!


----------



## 49autocycledeluxe (Jan 16, 2021)

why can't I find a bike like that for cheap?  

I bet that would have sold for 2 bills here in the SF Bay Area.... either that or no vintage bikes sell at all here, because they are all grossly overpriced by what I see here on the CABE.


----------



## HARPO (Jan 17, 2021)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> why can't I find a bike like that for cheap?
> 
> I bet that would have sold for 2 bills here in the SF Bay Area.... either that or no vintage bikes sell at all here, because they are all grossly overpriced by what I see here on the CABE.




Around here on Long Island, the bikes either go quickly or languish for months (_like this one did_). 

I missed out on a couple of Phantoms a few months back, within a week or two of each other. One on ebay (I was sniped at the last few seconds and the bike was a pickup-only)...the other on Facebook that was listed wrong and sat for a week until I saw it. Got hold of the guy, but someone was on their way to get it.

I'm now so stuffed with projects my head is spinning!! Yet...I love the thrill of the hunt! So iI'm sure I'll be looking _again_ today for a good deal.


----------



## HARPO (Jan 17, 2021)

Adamtinkerer said:


> If you decide to test the front brakes with that rim, please video it for us!




The rim hit, yet passed through, the fork when I rolled it to my car. I didn't think it would even make it through!

And I wonder how many teeth were lost when some actually _tried_ to use the front brake, lol!!!


----------



## HARPO (Jan 18, 2021)

_Began the cleaning today!_ I think the grease around every part of the bike is original it's so thick. Thankfully the rear hub was easy to remove it from as I figured it would be.

And I guess my frame was made about 5 months earlier before it was assembled...hub date is 12  52. 

The rim is a Schwinn Tubular S-5 for sure. I had no idea that this far back rims were used that appeared to look like the Raleigh's. Learned something new!!


----------



## rennfaron (Jan 18, 2021)

There is no way the rim was used that far back and was replaced at some point. Never seen an early 50s/mid 50s all original lightweight with one on there. S-5 started late 50s (generally '59).


----------



## HARPO (Jan 18, 2021)

rennfaron said:


> There is no way the rim was used that far back and was replaced at some point. Never seen an early 50s/mid 50s all original lightweight with one on there. S-5 started late 50s (generally '59).




But then why would they lace it to a '52 hub? The hub was original and they wanted to keep it, but on a newer rim that was damaged??


----------



## rennfaron (Jan 18, 2021)

Who knows why past people do what they do to these bikes (or even today...). Hard to know the life of a bike. Parts get broken and swapped out with what they had at the time or what the Schwinn shop could get at the time. Some guys just had too much time on their hands. Others on here talk about the warranty program and they would just swap out old parts with the newer versions. Why would someone take a perfectly good original traveler and mask off the decals and spray over everything in red paint (what the bike looked like before they did that (below) - GREAT SURVIVOR CONDITION!)? Or why would someone take the time to put new decals over old ones when they could have easily have removed the old ones before they did that...? I’ve seen tons of stuff swapped and sometimes it makes no sense. Here are the rims offered in ‘53. I don't have a '52 catalog, but they would be the same for lightweights. S-6 with no raised ridge.


----------



## GTs58 (Jan 18, 2021)

rennfaron said:


> There is no way the rim was used that far back and was replaced at some point. Never seen an early 50s/mid 50s all original lightweight with one on there. S-5 started late 50s (generally '59).




Didn't the S-5 come about around 1968?


----------



## rennfaron (Jan 18, 2021)

There were different S-5s and S-5s. I don't know anything about those, only ones on lightweights during the 50s/early 60s. I think the later 26" S-5s are the same as when they first started, but might be stamped/knurled slightly differently. I have a '59 catalog, but it doesn't show parts and I can't find anywhere where it says the exact model of rim for traveler (I'll keep looking), but I do have a '61 and does say it (below). From all the travelers I have, '59 is the line where you saw some with S-6s and some with S-5s, so to me that is the year for the change. This was a super nice '59 for sale not long ago with S-5s.


----------



## HARPO (Jan 18, 2021)

@rennfaron  Thanks again for all of this! Extremely useful since lately its been my first foray in this time period lightweights from Schwinn. 

I've been looking more and more at the old Schwinn catalogs online to see the differences in them. You can go crazy at just some subtle changes and various offerings from one model year to the next!


----------



## rennfaron (Jan 18, 2021)

HARPO said:


> I've been looking more and more at the old Schwinn catalogs online to see the differences in them. You can go crazy at just some subtle changes and various offerings from one model year to the next!



Oh ya you can! I kind of like it and what makes it fun to dig into the 50s lightweights. So many small changes here and there. Also be careful on some of the catalogs because the images don't always match up to the real deal. The written specs are pretty dead on though.


----------



## GTs58 (Jan 18, 2021)

Let me throw this into the equation.   *C92974*

11/13 to 11/25/1953 --- C72581 --- C99143


----------



## rennfaron (Jan 18, 2021)

I see your equation add, and send you one


----------



## GTs58 (Jan 18, 2021)

Now IF that rear hub is original to that bike, the bike would undoubtedly be a 1953 model. Unless SA was postdating their hubs.


----------



## rennfaron (Jan 18, 2021)

Ya '53 as in hit the sales floor in '53 would/could make sense. '52/12 hub and a mid year '52 frame would still get all the '52 build components. Any chance you think it could make the sales floor Christmas of '52?


----------



## GTs58 (Jan 18, 2021)

rennfaron said:


> Ya '53 as in hit the sales floor in '53 would/could make sense. '52/12 hub and a mid year '52 frame would still get all the '52 build components. Any chance you think it could make the sales floor Christmas of '52?




No way would it be on the floor for Christmas in 52 with a 52-12 dated hub. The hub inscriptions were most likely done before the hub was even built. How many hubs does it take to fill a container before it's loaded on a boat and shipped across the pond? The serial dates are the dates when the numbers were stamped on the drop out. Not even God knows when that frame was actually built. Schwinn was still using MR (Dec. 80) serial stamped head tubes building frames with head badge build dates in 1982. I'm leaning towards the idea that the bike was actually built in and is a 52, but the rear wheel was built up by someone that located a 52 hub to supposidly match the so called build year and then blew the deal on the front wheel. 52 was a big sales year for lightweights. 

January 53 Reporter


----------



## SirMike1983 (Jan 19, 2021)

You might keep the original hub and have a shop replace the rim, especially if you were inclined to keep the alloy shell hub. If the bike was still under a bike shop warranty, you might also be able to get the work done at reduced cost.


----------



## HARPO (Jan 19, 2021)

@rennfaron @GTs58  The 1952 chart I posted earlier was from Angelfire (_same one apparently_), which was what had gotten me excited about the Date in the first place.

It didn't connect until I saw the "12" on the hub that the bike wasn't assembled until 6 months later (which really doesn't make sense). Why leave a frame hanging around that long and not build it up?
So, I'm leaning more towards a damaged rim years later. Might have been a lot cheaper than purchasing a new wheel from a bike shop.


----------



## Oilit (Jan 19, 2021)

HARPO said:


> @rennfaron @GTs58  The 1952 chart I posted earlier was from Angelfire (_same one apparently_), which was what had gotten me excited about the Date in the first place.
> 
> It didn't connect until I saw the "12" on the hub that the bike wasn't assembled until 6 months later (which really doesn't make sense). Why leave a frame hanging around that long and not build it up?
> So, I'm leaning more towards a damaged rim years later. Might have been a lot cheaper than purchasing a new wheel from a bike shop.



There's no doubt the rear rim was replaced and you need a new front, the hub is close but who knows? You  have the 1952 head badge, that clinches it for me.


----------



## HARPO (Jan 19, 2021)

Oilit said:


> There's no doubt the rear rim was replaced and you need a new front, the hub is close but who knows? You  have the 1952 head badge, that clinches it for me.




Frame number also tells the tale...


----------



## rennfaron (Jan 19, 2021)

There has been some discussion about the difference between frame dates and hub dates. Some guys think they should be very similar. If you have a bunch of original bikes you will find that that is rarely the case. @GTs58 has talked about this quite a bit. I typically see anywhere between 2-4 mos difference. They made the frames in one process and then built the bikes in another process. It is rare but I have seen a frame stamped in one year and should receive that year of components but it receives the next year. Like a frame '62/10 that has '63 stuff on it. 6 mo difference would be pretty abnormal but I am pretty sure I have seen that before and isn't out of the realm of possibilities with the bikes.


----------

