# December-built Sting-Rays...



## Dbike (Mar 19, 2022)

Would a Sting-Ray with a December build date be considered a model of the following year? For example, a December, 1970 classified as a 1971 model? I have seen some such indications. Changes made beginning in December and continued through the next model year.


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## GTs58 (Mar 19, 2022)

Dbike said:


> Would a Sting-Ray with a December build date be considered a model of the following year? For example, a December, 1970 classified as a 1971 model? I have seen some such indications. Changes made beginning in December and continued through the next model year.




The serial dates are the date the numbers were stamped on the bikes component. Then that component was used to build a frame sometime later. So the serial stamping dates do not indicate any type of build, frame or otherwise. A December stamped serial would be on a bike that was built sometime early the next year.


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## Dbike (Mar 19, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> The serial dates are the date the numbers were stamped on the bikes component. Then that component was used to build a frame sometime later. So the serial stamping dates do not indicate any type of build, frame or otherwise. So a December stamped serial would be on a bike that was built sometime early the next year.



Oh, I didn't think of that. The serial stamping date on a bike that would not be built until a month or two later. Good point.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Mar 20, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> The serial dates are the date the numbers were stamped on the bikes component. Then that component was used to build a frame sometime later. So the serial stamping dates do not indicate any type of build, frame or otherwise. So a December stamped serial would be on a bike that was built sometime early the next year.



Was it determined that maybe as late as end of October was the cut off for some stamped parts to be used in the same year?


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## GTs58 (Mar 20, 2022)

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Was it determined that maybe as late as end of October was the cut off for some stamped parts to be used in the same year?




Yes, quite a few late October serial numbered pieces have actually been built in and for that year's model and I've noted some early November pieces. If they are models like the Phantom that had very few component changes from one year to the next it's hard to say but on a model that had changes for the next year's model, you can see that it was not built in and for that year. Crank dates, fork dates, new decals, new colors etc. are indications what year the bike was actually built. All the 1962 model November 27, 1961 Corvette 5 speeds that were original have been noted to have 1962 dated cranks. They also had the 1962 chrome fender braces, seat posts and kickstands, U cable guides, Pumpkin headlight, and 2 rivet Mesinger. Although the earlier seat has been known to appear on some of the 62 models. 

There was not a continuous daily or weekly production of any one model, they were built in batches at various times depending on orders and sales. The Sting Rays undoubtedly had the most frequent actual build days due to the volume of them that were sold. The Corvette 5 speed at times had months between build batches.


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## 60sstuff (Mar 20, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> So a December stamped serial would be on a bike that was built sometime early the next year.



GTs58,
So, according to your above sentence a December bike was built for the “next” year.

If a M4 (Dec. 1964) was manufactured in Red and that color was not available the next year (1965), how does that work if “M” was intended for the next years offerings?
I personally think Schwinn was much stricter/tighter with their “year stampings” on frames, forks, etc. than what’s been talked about.

In addition, when a person purchased an L4 or M4 coded frame the dealers receipt for that bike would show it to be a 1964, not the next year ‘65.

I value your knowledge on vintage bicycles, but what am I not understanding about your last several months of a year actually being the next year?

Thanks for any clarification, Chris.


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## GTs58 (Mar 20, 2022)

Of all the actual purchase receipts that I've come across, I never seen one that stated what year the bike was. Only the model and model number and the serial numbers were on the receipts, and maybe in some cases the dealers would add the color. 






If you make note of all the Schwinns, not just Sting Rays, you'll see that any December stamped serial was on the next year's model and the bike was actually built in the next year. If you check all the Schwinns that were produced from 1976 and later where the actual build dates are stamped in the head badge, you will see what the time spans are between the serial stamping dates and the actual build dates. From multiple examples that I've noted, I would say the average time gap between the two dates is just about two months. I have noted some with a month gap and some with more than a two month gap. December was a short production month with the holidays and the normal shut down for retooling. This is obvious if go thru the all the years on the serial list and note the number of December days the serial numbers were stamped. And that's just one phase of manufacturing the parts for the next year.  

Here are the details on my 79 Spitfire 5 speed. 

Frame Serial Number CQ577905 ..... March 1979
Head Badge # Build Date 1229 ..... May 2, 1979

Stem stamped……79
Crank #…… …… SA 6 4 79
Bars…………….. Schwinn 7836 14 79
Rear Derailleur… Positron II


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Mar 21, 2022)

I have a 1967 stamped Typhoon with '68 fork and '68 crank.


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## Rollo (Mar 21, 2022)

... I have a Sky Blue Collegiate with a Jan '67 date stamp, but the crank, stem and bars are from '66 ... so I guess Schwinn had no issues with using left over parts from the previous year ...


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## kostnerave (Mar 21, 2022)

I have a Violet Varsity tourist with a July '66 frame stamp and a Nov. '66 fork stamp. The frame has welded on cable bosses, an oval head badge, stem shifters, a chainguard, a color matched "S" seat and color matched grips. These features were all indicative of the '67 model year builds for the Varsity tourist. The Violet color option was not listed for the tourist in '67, so paint colors can't be used to refute GT58's next year theory. My bike has a five month span between the time the frame was stamped to when it was put into production!


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## 60sstuff (Mar 21, 2022)

Thanks guys for all your feedback!

I’m fully aware of the next years new components being applied onto the latter months of the previous year.
I have dealt with that on the muscle cars from the 60’s. Those are transitioning months.

The bicycles and/or automobiles will always go by what that manufacture stamped into that year frame.
L4 / M4 is a 1964 period, not a ‘65.
Let‘s say a worse case scenario in a court room involving a broken frame that resulted in injury in a bicycle or automobile.

Customer says I purchased this Schwinn in early 1965 because I like the new features so it must be a ‘65, but the factory stamp on the frame and warranty book clearly show a ‘64 year, not what someone thinks it is.

Also if I were to advertise an L4 or M4 on let’s say eBay, do I say it’s a 1965 ….. No.

This M4 Red Super Deluxe that I owned years ago is a 1964 and the last year for that color.

Again, Thanks for the everyone’s opinions on the factory stamped dates. Cheers 🍻.


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## mrg (Mar 21, 2022)

I can see both sides here but when it comes down to it, it was a toy and had to be shipped out, fill that order before you go home! ( mostly just hourly employees ),so I don't think everything is set in stone, seen too many weird things over the years!


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Mar 21, 2022)

Dbike said:


> Would a Sting-Ray with a December build date be considered a model of the following year? For example, a December, 1970 classified as a 1971 model? I have seen some such indications. Changes made beginning in December and continued through the next model year.



For all intensive purposes no it would be considered the year it was stamped. However if it was a model not offered the year previous you would need to say for instance it is a '66 model with a '65 Stamp date if you wanted to be correct. If you have a bike that was stamped '65 but not offered until '66 it would also be OK to call it a '66.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Mar 21, 2022)

I still do not know what to make of the '64 KS American with a '62 stamp date.


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## kostnerave (Mar 21, 2022)

60sstuff said:


> Thanks guys for all your feedback!
> 
> I’m fully aware of the next years new components being applied onto the latter months of the previous year.
> I have dealt with that on the muscle cars from the 60’s. Those are transitioning months.
> ...



It's been a long time since I messed with Sting-rays, but wasn't the tall loop saddle strut a '65 feature? It could be like my Violet Varsity, being a '65 build in a '64 paint color. I'm just wondering.


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## 60sstuff (Mar 21, 2022)

kostnerave said:


> It's been a long time since I messed with Sting-rays, but wasn't the tall loop saddle strut a '65 feature? It could be like my Violet Varsity, being a '65 build in a '64 paint color. I'm just wondering.



Been around since mid-year ‘64.


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## indycycling (Mar 21, 2022)

60sstuff said:


> Been around since mid-year ‘64.
> 
> View attachment 1593191
> 
> View attachment 1593192



Thanks Chris!  I have some friends with 64 SD's that are equipped with Persons square back struts and tufted solo polo seats - was this ever available?  thanks!


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## indycycling (Mar 21, 2022)

kostnerave said:


> I have a Violet Varsity tourist with a July '66 frame stamp and a Nov. '66 fork stamp. The frame has welded on cable bosses, an oval head badge, stem shifters, a chainguard, a color matched "S" seat and color matched grips. These features were all indicative of the '67 model year builds for the Varsity tourist. The Violet color option was not listed for the tourist in '67, so paint colors can't be used to refute GT58's next year theory. My bike has a five month span between the time the frame was stamped to when it was put into production!
> 
> View attachment 1592906
> 
> ...



great looking bike BTW!


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## GTs58 (Mar 21, 2022)

The serial number is just a serial number and it's nothing like a VIN on an automobile. Schwinn kept daily records of the numbers they stamped and that's it. The serial numbers didn't mean anything to Schwinn during the production, shipping and distribution. It was intended for future reference, proof of ownership on the bill of sale, identification for city, town, county registration or license. It's just a basic form of identification and that's all it was for. Let's take the MR serial numbers for an extreme example. During the last few months of 1980 and in early 1981 Schwinn workers were on strike for 13 weeks, so there was no bicycle production. But Schwinn was still manufacturing parts. During December of 1980 Schwinn made 900,000 + head tubes and the final stage of head tube construction was stamping the serial numbers and drilling the holes for the head badge. These December 1980 stamped head tubes were use throughout the 1981 production and some even ended up on some 1982 bikes. The pre stamped drop outs were tossed in a bucket and were later distributed to the frame builders when they needed them. The time span from the stamping to the time they were used to build a frame is a total unknown and it could be days, weeks or months later, and in one known case it was years on a specific 70's model light weight that used a special/different drop out that was use on a previous light weight model.


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## 60sstuff (Mar 21, 2022)

indycycling said:


> Thanks Chris!  I have some friends with 64 SD's that are equipped with Persons square back struts and tufted solo polo seats - was this ever available?  thanks!



Who equipped the ‘64 S/D with a square back strut and a polo seat is a mystery, as I’ve never seen one advertised that way.
Various dealers or owners will do their personal modifications.


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## indycycling (Mar 21, 2022)

60sstuff said:


> Who equipped the ‘64 S/D with a square back strut and a polo seat is a mystery, as I’ve never seen one advertised that way.
> Various dealers or owners will do their personal modifications.



Thanks Chris - same for J33 then too?


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