# need help ID'ing Bike



## joecalvert1 (Apr 7, 2009)

please help me ID this bike, the Serial # is P500764  appears to be hand stamped(alignment off a little)  the sprocket has an H-D or D-H on it in three places.  the crank has  AS 35 cast into it. No other markings of any kind. the headbadge is gone with no outline  the distance between the two pins holding it on is approx 2 1/2" 
Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## Aeropsycho (Apr 8, 2009)

*Well I will start....*

This is a lot of bikes in one The Frame is weird it is not a Schwinn, Dayton, Colson, CWC, I think it is a 35-37 Shelby judging by the seat clamp and I have  the same frame with the 3 plated fork for 15 years I still am not sure  I hope RMS 37 chimes in on this frame as for the crank it sounds and looks like a 35 schwinn the spocket is for sure off of a Harley Davidson Bicycle!!! I would buy or trade it from you if you a interested...

So the wheels and fenders probably 1950s it depends on the hub brand and model along with the handlebars and rocket grips

Chain Guard is a McCully add on type a lot of bikes used these it is a Colson style...

It is not much as far as original but it has some cool stuff about it.
Let me know on the spocket if you want to part it out.


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## Aeropsycho (Apr 8, 2009)

*Yo Phil Check This Out!!!*

This frame is a real Mystery my guess is 36-37 Shelby made maybe for Hawthorne? I have the same frame/fork


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## RMS37 (Apr 8, 2009)

Hi Joe, Jamie, this frame throws me also. The frame has been posted already and while the parallel curved top tubes were used by several manufacturers there are features that eliminate most of them.

Jamie, I'm interested in seeing pictures of the frame you have, I haven't seen a Shelby built Hawthorne and that may solve the mystery. 

Here is my deduction processto date.

Triple plate fork crowns are the domain of Snyder and Cleveland Welding. As with many of the other parts, the fork may not be original to the frame so it is of little help.

The seat clamp that appears to consist of only ears with no strap (is this just a photographic illusion?) and the shape of the dropouts, are the best clues in the photos.

The serial number, coupled with the seat clamp, stay shape, and rear dropout shape eliminate Cleveland Welding. Combinations of these same features also seem to eliminate Colson and Dayton. 

I don?t know of a Shelby frame in this double parallel top tube (DPTT) configuration without the Airflo top tube/stay arrangement. I also don?t believe Shelby used drop stand ears at the time this frame appears to date to. (again, Jamie, can you post a picture of the frame you have?)

The Crank is likely a Schwinn crank but may not be original to the frame as the chain ring certainly is not. Schwinn offered a DPTT frame but again the seat clamp doesn?t look like a Schwinn and Schwinn dropouts rarely have ears. The ones I have seen with ears are shaped differently than those on this frame.

See:

http://www.thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4079&highlight=SCHWINN

The dropouts look most like Westfield or early Murray-Ohio but neither of these manufacturers produced a DPTT frame to my immediate knowledge. Snyder produced a DTTT frame but it looks nothing like this frame.

It certainly isn?t an Iver and there is not reason to blame CCM.

Evinrude? Alexander? Trying to act normal, I think not.

That leaves Monark, Manton, and poor little Emblem who was probably long gone by the time this frame was produced.

So...

We all love a mystery and that is where I am at with this frame. It would probably be easier to solve in the flesh but barring that crisp photos from several additional angles including tube junctures, the configuration of the upper rear stay area, and the crank hanger area and serial number might give enough evidence to solve this one.


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## Aeropsycho (Apr 8, 2009)

*Excited!!!*

Whooo Hoooo I have had my frame for 15+ years in the last 4 or so I have been comparing and comparing and I know I am NOT CRAZY!!!....yet, 
I found my bike at my local annual car swap in 1993 the reason I bought it was for the Aerocycle/Strawberry sprocket that was on it I knew it was not a Schwinn the crank is a Shelby the sprocket teeth were kind of worn so the spocket was reversed (ware marks on outside)... the frame and 3 plated fork I have never removed them or the nasty paint to see the original I am not sure if it has any it had no sheet metal or badge on it either...:o

I have been holding back waiting to release this to you so I guess the time is now!!!

Here is pic for reference I have studied off Dave's site...http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S=arc/bicycles/1937+Hawthorne+2.jpg

Still can't tell, I have a pic somewhere of a Aero flyer I thought was it...maybe. I will look for the pics...

The seat clamp on mine is Shelby for sure...

I am going to try and get it out of my basement pile tonight and take pics of it for you... there is a bee hive in the wall above the door so I may have to wait till it is safe....I Love a Mystery with suspence...:eek:


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## joecalvert1 (Apr 8, 2009)

RMS37
send me an email at joecalvert1@yahoo.com, I'll send pictures of this frame to you, I would like to do this bike up as a military bike for WW2 reenacting, I know its not the military bike, but could have possibly been like one that got grabbed up fixed for military use.
Thanks for your help,
Joe Calvert


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## redline1968 (Apr 8, 2009)

trade you a prewar schwinn rear drum for your sprocket. or?

mark


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## joecalvert1 (Apr 10, 2009)

Aeropsycho,
the rear brake and front hub say NEW DEPARTURE
Joe

I don't think at this time I'm going to part anything out just yet,


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## Classicriders (Apr 10, 2009)

What kind of speedo is that?


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## redline1968 (Apr 11, 2009)

let me know when you do.. thanks
mark


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## RMS37 (Apr 12, 2009)

I put the following picture together from the pictures of Joe?s bike (on the left) and Aeropsycho?s bike (which had been cut off from the outside world for some time by a wall of angry bees).  They obviously have the same frame from the same manufacturer and as Aeropsycho noted, the seat clamp is definitely the same pattern the Shelby used on some of their models. The rest of the construction also looks like Shelby with the exception of the dropouts which have ears. I don?t have reference to Shelby frames with ears, does anyone else? Interestingly both bikes as-found sported non-original rare chain rings and other ancillaries that are probably not factory originals. 

Whether or not other Shelby frames turn up with ears it appears that these frames were produced by Shelby. Both have holes for a vertical badge, but unfortunately no badge. Does anyone else have one of these frames or any information on them?

As far as dating the frames, my guess would be circa 1938, I found a piece of Shelby literature also circa 1938 that I will add to this post later. It depicts several similar frames.  

The serial numbers on these two frames are interesting; interpreted numerically they are almost 500,000 units apart which was probably about 2 years in Shelby time. 

I don?t know that anyone has taken on decoding Shelby serial numbers but the CWC serial number data base is growing constantly and has proved useful for generally dating CWC bikes. With that in mind I will start a thread for Shelby and see what we can do with those numbers.


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## JRE (Apr 12, 2009)

My 1937 Shelby Airflow frame has Drop stand Ears. It's the only yr the Airflows had the ears on the frame.


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## joecalvert1 (Apr 12, 2009)

JRE can you post a photo of your Shelby for us to look at and compare. I would in time like to do this bike as original as possible, my plan is to still go ahead with the militarization for WW2 .
Thanks for the assistance and I will continue to monitor the posts to check on updates, I will post the finished project when complete.
Thanks again
Joe Calvert


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## joecalvert1 (Apr 12, 2009)

Are there any sites or any references to the Shelby's hwere I can go for more info, such as correct sprockets, chain guards, and the like.
Joe Calvert


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## JRE (Apr 12, 2009)

I'll get some close ups this weekend. I have a couple of the bike but need to send them to someone to help me post them.


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## redline1968 (Apr 13, 2009)

heres a picture of my 1936 airflow.. ive have the original light now but not on it.

mark


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## joecalvert1 (Apr 13, 2009)

Nice, Thanks for the shot, and thanks for the help.
Joe Calvert


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## Aeropsycho (Apr 14, 2009)

*Different Frame...*

You Know Mr. Joe this frame is different in size and model I tryed the putting the Airflow type "Peanut" tank in it,...it won't fit...

I think making a war bike out of it would be cool

It is probably a basic model bike most of the parts on Redlines bike pic would probably be right but I don't think they had a tank anyway...

I might motorize mine...

Thanks for sharing I have had my frame for a long time I knew it was Shelby!


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## Aeropsycho (Apr 14, 2009)

*Ears...*



JRE said:


> My 1937 Shelby Airflow frame has Drop stand Ears. It's the only yr the Airflows had the ears on the frame.





I have heard about the one year only frame with ears...I would think it would be the first year produced 1936... but maybe Phil knows better...


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## joecalvert1 (Apr 14, 2009)

Thanks to all for helping ID this bike, As soon as I finish it in military colors I will post pictures.
Thanks again
Joe Calvert


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