# A Favor To Ask



## 37fleetwood (Feb 18, 2013)

I've noticed that when there are those threads where someone is asking what they have, way too many people who don't know throw out guesses. the problem with this is that when someone comes along who does know, the guy asking takes it as another guess, and just gets more confused.
if you know, feel free to chime in, if not, maybe wait a bit and see if you were right.
I'm not trying to be a jerk to you guys guessing, but trying to help out those new guys trying to identify their bikes.
Thanks alot!


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## Balloontyre (Feb 18, 2013)

Agreed, great idea.


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## vincev (Feb 18, 2013)

Great observation.I have  noticed that also but didnt know a nice way to post it so it wouldn't start an argument .


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## jpromo (Feb 18, 2013)

Pretty sure I know which straw broke the camel's back.

Still.. not only is this a learning place for people who come with questions, but we're still all learning as established members. You can watch somebody ride a bike all day long but you won't really be able to do it until you get on and try yourself. Sure, there were a few incorrect guesses thrown around.. but that's why we have X,000 members--to pick up the others' slack


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## GTs58 (Feb 18, 2013)

I really don't think that was a big deal. Two said it was this and at least four said it was not. That's what makes the "What is this" guessing game on a pieced together mutt so fun.
There are many other misconceptions spread throughout the forums and that also misleads others. Example, the date coded serial numbers on a schwinn are said by the majority that the bike was built on that date. That is 100% false, but try to teach that to the ones that think they know. When someone guesses and they are wrong, then argues the fact and disagrees with someone that knows, then that is a big problem.


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## jkent (Feb 18, 2013)

Wow some people are so temperamental. Guess I got put in my place by the Expert! First of all I never said "this is EXACTLY what it is". Yep I said it. I was one of those dumb @*%# that got it wrong and should have just kept my keyboard shutup in the first place.  MG I'll just shut up right now before I go off!


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 18, 2013)

jkent said:


> Wow some people are so temperamental. Guess I got put in my place by the Expert! First of all I never said "this is EXACTLY what it is". Yep I said it. I was one of those dumb @*%# that got it wrong and should have just kept my keyboard shutup in the first place.  MG I'll just shut up right now before I go off!




You're taking this way to personal, this has been happening for all the years this forum has been going.
also this wasn't aimed at anyone, and was just by way of trying to help new guys out. it just gets confusing and hard to clear things up if too many people answer and all of the answers are different.
I'm also not trying to say you can't post a guess, just that maybe you guys could make it clear that it is a guess.
...and I'm not an expert, but I have had a few Monark Rockets in my day.


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## catfish (Feb 18, 2013)

Good call!    A little info can be a bad thing. Espeicaly if it's wrong info.  I had some one try to sell me a bike that the Wright Bros had worked on..... When I asked them to explain, and they did in great detail.... Every think they said was very worng. When it came down to it at the end, and I explained to them how wrong they were, they did not belive me..... Because the tag on the back of the seat said "Wright" on it.......... And than after I explained how the tag also said "Made in England" and how it was made in the 1950s. About 50 years after they had stopped working on bikes. And were dead. They were even more covinced that I was tring to con them out of a crapy English three speed.......





37fleetwood said:


> I've noticed that when there are those threads where someone is asking what they have, way too many people who don't know throw out guesses. the problem with this is that when someone comes along who does know, the guy asking takes it as another guess, and just gets more confused.
> if you know, feel free to chime in, if not, maybe wait a bit and see if you were right.
> I'm not trying to be a jerk to you guys guessing, but trying to help out those new guys trying to identify their bikes.
> Thanks alot!


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## slick (Feb 18, 2013)

Why don't we just nominate a bicycle "god" to do all of the I.D.'ing on here? Make it real easy. Everyone makes mistakes and everyones opinion should be taken into consideration. If the do happen to be wrong, no big deal. This site is a learning experience for everyone. Nobody is better then anyone else here. Better yet, the people guessing should post up a photo of the comparable bike or the original sales ad to back their guess. How about that? 

Oh, and just a guess but, this thread will be another 7 page thread........there is no "right" answer to it.


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## Rust_Trader (Feb 18, 2013)

What's happening to the CABE?


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## m_s_terry (Feb 18, 2013)

37fleetwood said:


> You're taking this way to personal, this has been happening for all the years this forum has been going.
> also this wasn't aimed at anyone, and was just by way of trying to help new guys out. it just gets confusing and hard to clear things up if too many people answer and all of the answers are different.
> I'm also not trying to say you can't post a guess, just that maybe you guys could make it clear that it is a guess.
> ...and I'm not an expert, but I have had a few Monark Rockets in my day.




I don't know...sometimes (Usually) I learn just as much from the wrong guesses as I do the correct answers.  i.e. "that can't be an (x), (x) had (y, z, a)", It's most likely a (b) made frame mutted with (specific parts).  Coming from a newbie, sometimes it actually helps to learn from others' mistakes, rather than make my own.


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## jpromo (Feb 18, 2013)

Oh no, not 7 pages! Let's not be the 12 year-olds somebody on RRB just claimed us to act like sometimes! :eek:

This must remain a place where we speak freely and try to offer help where help is beckoned. That said, "I think," "I believe," "it looks like," "my Spidey senses suggest": any of these are valid ways of offering help without definitively answering and possibly misleading someone. Helping, both, outsiders and members to expand the hobby is the main goal, eh? Oh, and to ride awesome bikes.


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 18, 2013)

forget I said anything, carry on...


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## oskisan (Feb 18, 2013)

*Interesting...*

I like this site (and other sites) for reference, but I don't take anything gospel at all. If you are one that takes what is said here (or any other forum) without doing your do diligence and doing a bit more research, then you are destined for disappointment. I take everything as a lead, then look into it further. BTW: if you don't have a lead, you do not even have anywhere to start from.

Many of us have been doing this for a very long time and just skim over the incorrect posts (at least I do) and they never both me at all... I think it is excellent that someone is trying to help, whether it is right or wrong, I appreciate the input.
Personally, I don't want to hear from only those who "know it all"


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Feb 18, 2013)

oskisan said:


> I like this site (and other sites) for reference, but I don't take anything gospel at all. If you are one that takes what is said here (or any other forum) without doing your do diligence and doing a bit more research, then you are destined for disappointment. I take everything as a lead, then look into it further. BTW: if you don't have a lead, you do not even have anywhere to start from.
> 
> Many of us have been doing this for a very long time and just skim over the incorrect posts (at least I do) and they never both me at all... I think it is excellent that someone is trying to help, whether it is right or wrong, I appreciate the input.
> Personally, I don't want to hear from only those who "know it all"




Don't skim over the incorrect posts!!.. Any input helps solve the problem. That's why people ask us!! If the latest post is incorrect, then add your two cents cause if you don't, then the wrong answers get used as a certainty and it just perpetuates more wrong answers in the future. Fleetwood has a point, but its good to see what others are saying wrong or right, cause thats what helps us learn as a group. Like in physics ....


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Feb 18, 2013)

*oskasian*

I agree with your post. It's not gospel.


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## jkent (Feb 18, 2013)

Who are the Experts on The Cabe? 
And what is The Cabe turning into? All these rules and regulations. I feel like everything has to be governed nowadays. People don't know how to loosen up and unbutton the top button on their white collars. I'm being choked to death by all these rules and people that feel like everything and everyone must be 100% correct with everything that comes out of their mouth. Loosen up people! So what if I’m wrong and your right, who cares if you know more than me. We are all brothers (and sisters) around here. I really like The Cabe for the knowledge and the interest we all share in the same thing. This is a place I like to get on my computer and spend hours on this site, and read practically every post hoping to learn more every time I’m on here. Let’s make this an enjoyable place for everyone. I'm entitled to my opinion and guesses just the same as you! Scott (37fleetwood) I don't think you did single anyone out. But did I take it personal? Yes, kinda hit a nerve. But I like you. Your very informative, someone I could probably learn alot from. Just the same people learn from mistakes and mistakes will be made. We are all human.


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 18, 2013)

this is getting really blown out of proportion.

I'm not in charge here, nor was this a new rule, more of favor to the new guys.

I'm also not an expert. I do know a few things and try to help out where I can.

this type of thing is nothing new here. just look back through the threads. all along, some of us have been trying our best to make this a place where everyone has a good time and gets what they need. it's only more recently that a few guys want there to be no rules at all, or want to abuse the few rules there are!

all I was asking was that when you see a guy who's first post is "what do I have" maybe it's not the best idea to give him a three page multiple choice answer. if a regular posts something, of course feel free to debate it to your hearts content.


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## jkent (Feb 18, 2013)

Will do! Scott


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## dougfisk (Feb 18, 2013)

One of my disappointments in this regard is that there are some, even many, experts as members who do not contribute when help is requested... (but they do suddenly appear when a rare bike or part might appear to be available for purchase.)  

Consequently the void is left to be filled by some of us less qualified.


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## OldRider (Feb 18, 2013)

dougfisk said:


> One of my disappointments in this regard is that there are some, even many, experts as members who do not contribute when help is requested... (but they do suddenly appear when a rare bike or part might appear to be available for purchase.)
> 
> Consequently the void is left to be filled by some of us less qualified.



I've noticed the exact same thing.........Its called the Leon Dixon Syndrome, "you don't know what I know and I'm not telling."


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## Balloontyre (Feb 18, 2013)

OldRider said:


> I've noticed the exact same thing.........Its called the Leon Dixon Syndrome, "you don't know what I know and I'm not telling."




Ya Man, if you don't share knowledge what value does it really have? Especially when it comes to selling a bike, it would be in the experts best interest to educate the masses so they can capitalize on what they're trying to authenticate and sell. I am not making my comment regarding Leon, don't know the dude.


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## Coaster Brake (Feb 18, 2013)

I guess I should weigh in on this, as it was my incorrect identification that set this whole thing off.
I realize that my guess was quite far off, in fact as soon as I was called on it, I looked closer at the bike frame and saw I was wrong. I did not know that misidentifying the bike in question upset anyone.
I have never implied that I have any idea of what I am doing when it comes to these old things.


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 18, 2013)

Coaster Brake said:


> I guess I should weigh in on this, as it was my incorrect identification that set this whole thing off.
> I realize that my guess was quite far off, in fact as soon as I was called on it, I looked closer at the bike frame and saw I was wrong. I did not know that misidentifying the bike in question upset anyone.
> I have never implied that I have any idea of what I am doing when it comes to these old things.




please everyone just stop and take a breath! no ones upset, I just thought it might be a good idea not to flood newbies with 3 pages of different answers.
I'm not trying to discourage people helping out, just trying to stop the confusion.

Coaster Brake, I'm really not upset at all, and it's not you, there are dozens of threads like this, this one was the most recent, but that's all.

I will say that the one thing that has been mentioned that does upset me a bit. when someone buys or is looking at buying a bike simply to resale and make a profit on and they come here and expect someone to do all the work for them. I really went postal on a guy who wanted me to identify his Huffman and kept asking for details and info, and then listed it for sale with all my info on the Ratrod site.

as a rule of thumb I'm really willing to try to help, but sometimes things wear on me. and today I'm in day 3 of a killer headache so I may be less patient than I usually am (not that I'm all that patient at the best of times).
so forgive me if you think I'm being a jerk, I'm not trying to, I'm just trying to simplify things for everyone.


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## Coaster Brake (Feb 18, 2013)

I see what you're getting at Scott, and I agree completely. Some of those identification threads drag on way too long, and the correct answer ends up being muddled by the bickering.
Zach


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## cyclebuster (Feb 18, 2013)

For one, anything supplied by me or anyone else here is an opinion. Myself i run a bicycle shop the last 16 years. I have spent hundred if not thousands of hours identifying bikes, many from word of mouth from collectors, and at this point i think that every thing i was ever told was wrong, with much of it coming from here. For every 1961 huffy with a schwinn badge there are 1000 people with a "rare" huffy built schwinn story. Like the 55 straight bar hornet issue. besides owning one at this time, almost every point i made on that bike was things told to me by  "experts" in here, Old Roads, the old Schwinn boards, Classic Rendevous, and a half dozen other sites. SO any more i take anything posted in here as an opinion. what ever trinket is on your 65 year old bike cannot ever be proven to be original. Period. Accesories, and repairs have been made to bikes since day one. If you could slap a rare badge on a common bike, well everyone did it. And not just last week, 50 years ago as well. 
Some of the old boards got so bad, a bunch of people, myself included went to a private unpublished board and we got along fine. There is 100 wrong "experts" for every one thats even close to correct. As for the Schwinn dates being completely wrong i disagree. The majority of the lists are made from the "Foremans daily log" which lists the bikes by the day, usually  in 2-3 day increments, of build. NOW was this the build of the bottom bracket, or the whole bike, or just the frame??  We will never know will we, but Schwinn dates are closer then you would beleive. Check the 3 speed bikes build dates vs the build date of the hub. Not a big difference unless its changed. You can dog Leon all you want, but one thing i know. HE did the legwork in the 70s. Nobody else did. If you dont think his time is worth anything dont bother him. 
SO the next time someone  comes in here with a question, i suggest you leave your attitude elsewhere and give your opinion, like everyone else


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## slick (Feb 18, 2013)

4 more pages to go! Told you!!!

I accept everyones opinion no matter what. You learn something new everyday. 

For instance, i thought they only made Mouselights in aluminum and boy was i corrected by a few examples. Am i upset? No. I'm happy to learn more about this hobby and wouldn't mind having one of the steel ones to go with my 2 aluminum ones. HA!


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## bikewhorder (Feb 18, 2013)

*The big picture*

Way to throw a match in puddle of gasoline Scott,  I think if the Cabe has a problem it's not that people are misidentifying bikes, Its that there are too many members who think they are "kind of a big deal".  There have been many occasions that I've been tempted to say "Dude, Your a BIKE COLLECTOR! Outside of this little world nobody gives a s*&t what you know, so ease up on the 'ol ego trip".  Sometimes the Cabe can be a caustic environment and I'll admit I've contributed occasionally to this hostile atmosphere.  I think its good to keep in mind that short of a personal attack that could damage your reputation, there is really no need to get upset about anything anyone posts. I would argue there's a good many of us who need to be reminded that this is supposed to be fun and we shouldn't take it quite so seriously.  Alas, cynic that I am, I'm pretty sure anytime you get a bunch of guys together, especially competing over a limited resource, there are going to be egos that swell and get bruised.  Just my $.02 and I'll probably regret hitting the submit reply button on this one.


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## Barry's Bikes (Feb 18, 2013)

*My Solution*

I fairly new to the CABE, so I can pretty much say I'm neither a expert or a big deal in my mind or anybody else's for that matter. A lot has been said in this thread on both sides of the discussion. after reading it all I have found a solution, at least for me. From this point on:

I will neither ask nor answer. 

Here's why. Cause if (by slim chance) I'm right I will be told I'm wrong by somebody, If I try to protect myself by saying I'm just guessing I will be labeled as one of them (guessers) not to be taken seriously, cause if we're guessing we don't really know do we.

So as I see it: It is better to sit in silence and be thought the fool, than to open one's mouth and confirm the fact. 

I joined the CABE to learn about and talk about vintage bikes, I will miss being a part of that. So I leave the CABE responses to the experts, the big deals, never been wrongers and the newbies who can't understand why they only get 1 reply that's says "I don't Know". Then at some point in the distant future when I too become Leon Dixon like, I will once again offer my opinion and maybe just maybe, help someone out. Which is all I ever wanted when I joined, to help and be helped by people who loved bikes just like I do.

Regards,
Barry


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 18, 2013)

Barry's Bikes said:


> I fairly new to the CABE, so I can pretty much say I'm neither a expert or a big deal in my mind or anybody else's for that matter. A lot has been said in this thread on both sides of the discussion. after reading it all I have found a solution, at least for me. From this point on:
> 
> I will neither ask nor answer.
> 
> ...


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## Boris (Feb 18, 2013)

37fleetwood said:


>




I don't see your headache getting better anytime soon, with that kind of behavior.


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## bikewhorder (Feb 18, 2013)

37fleetwood said:


>




 Damn it Dave, you beat me to it!


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## Boris (Feb 18, 2013)

bikewhorder said:


> Damn it Dave, you beat me to it!




Fear of the "submit" button will get you every time.


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## bikewhorder (Feb 18, 2013)

Dave Marko said:


> Fear of the "submit" button will get you every time.




I was thinking more along the lines of "smart asses think alike"


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## Boris (Feb 18, 2013)

bikewhorder said:


> I was thinking more along the lines of "smart asses think alike"




Is that your expert opinion, or are you just guessing?


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## Coaster Brake (Feb 18, 2013)




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## bikewhorder (Feb 18, 2013)

It think its a much better trajectory from where it started...


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## chitown (Feb 18, 2013)




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## bikewhorder (Feb 18, 2013)

Yeah kind of like that old expression about opinions and A/H's, I forget exactly how it goes, something like- "everyone who's opinion is different from mine is an A/H".  Wha Hoo page 5 here we come!


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## Coaster Brake (Feb 18, 2013)

chitown said:


>




There we go, the entire thread symmarized in one image.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Feb 18, 2013)

*thought id post a bike*




    hey look its a bike! Remember?? B I C Y C L E?haven't seen one of them on this thread for a while! Or ever!? what is this twitter?


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Feb 18, 2013)

*its a B6*

Just thought id add that... Its a B6 ....bingo!


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## GTs58 (Feb 18, 2013)

I couldn't wait to get home from work to see how this thread turned out. Good thing I didn't throw in an early guess. lol  

And if you want to believe the Schwinn serial numbers tell you the date the bike was built that's fine with me, but I know better. ; )


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Feb 18, 2013)

*haha*

Exactly... My 52 turned out to be a 46... Forman at a kids bike factory ....let that brew a bit...


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## bikewhorder (Feb 18, 2013)

fatbar said:


> Just thought id add that... Its a B6 ....bingo!




No your wrong its a '57 Elgin Wingbar! and the pedal blocks are upside down.


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## bikewhorder (Feb 18, 2013)

...and it's hard to tell but I think the one spoke nipple next to the valve stem on the front wheel is from a mercury.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Feb 18, 2013)

*are u sure?*

I thought the front fender was off a 48 Pontiac?


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## bikewhorder (Feb 18, 2013)

Dude, I've got over 600 more posts than you! How dare you question my authority!


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 18, 2013)

Oh the Huffmanity!!!
Ok, I'll admit I do start threads out of boredom sometimes just to get people talking, and it usually works, but this one was not one of those.
in fact, now that I think about it, it's about that time again isn't it? I'll try to think up something interesting to draw attention away from this one which shouldn't have gotten so much attention in the first place.
that and now that I've had a Dominoes Pizza and two Shock Tops, I feel a bit mellower...or is that more mellow? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 either way let's get back to arguing about which brand had the best front axle nuts.


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## chitown (Feb 18, 2013)

*Trolling has it's downside...*



37fleetwood said:


> Ok, I'll admit I do start threads out of boredom sometimes just to get people talking, and it usually works, but this one was not one of those.









OK, I think I'm out of meme's for this thread so back to calling every bike I see a Mead.. or Excelsior Cycle... or Schwinn.. or anything Chicago Built.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Feb 18, 2013)

*606*

To be exact o exalted one .......


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## vincev (Feb 18, 2013)

wow,I just read all 6 pages and I still like Scott banging his head against the brick wall the best.


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## Coaster Brake (Feb 18, 2013)

That was one of the high points.
Though I think the best part if this thread is when it gets forgotten, and sinks to the bottom.
Until a new member bumps it to the top and this starts all over again.


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## redline1968 (Feb 18, 2013)

Im done with it. I Took enough. so no posts picks help. Let the roosters fight.


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## slick (Feb 18, 2013)

Come on page 7...i predicted it well. Can i win a P.O.S bike at least for guessing 7 pages? How about a Huffman from the thread starter? LMAO!!!! 

Some bridges burn best when you "huff" and puff on the fire. LOL!!!!!!!! Get it? Huff? Huffman thrown on the fire? LOL!!


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## bikewhorder (Feb 18, 2013)

vincev said:


> wow,I just read all 6 pages and I still like Scott banging his head against the brick wall the best.




I liked all of my posts the best.


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## OldRider (Feb 18, 2013)

slick said:


> Come on page 7...i predicted it well. Can i win a P.O.S bike at least for guessing 7 pages? How about a Huffman from the thread starter? LMAO!!!!
> 
> Some bridges burn best when you "huff" and puff on the fire. LOL!!!!!!!! Get it? Huff? Huffman thrown on the fire? LOL!!




If your prediction is correct I'll offer you Larmo's new Ingo bike as the prize


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## slick (Feb 18, 2013)

OldRider said:


> If your prediction is correct I'll offer you Larmo's new Ingo bike as the prize




Sounds good to me!! I'll gladly take it.


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## Boris (Feb 19, 2013)

OldRider said:


> If your prediction is correct I'll offer you Larmo's new Ingo bike as the prize




Why not some of your empty egg cartons too? Or are you gonna just whord* them all. Almost there, I'm here to help.

*tip o' the hat to bikewhorder and for the fine work he's doing here.


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## sam (Feb 19, 2013)

37fleetwood said:


> I've noticed that when there are those threads where someone is asking what they have, way too many people who don't know throw out guesses. the problem with this is that when someone comes along who does know, the guy asking takes it as another guess, and just gets more confused.
> if you know, feel free to chime in, if not, maybe wait a bit and see if you were right.
> I'm not trying to be a jerk to you guys guessing, but trying to help out those new guys trying to identify their bikes.
> Thanks alot!




Sorry the best I can do is guess about wheather your idea is a good one or not---sam


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## silvertonguedevil (Feb 19, 2013)

Good God, I love these threads!!


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## silvertonguedevil (Feb 19, 2013)

bikewhorder said:


> Dude, I've got over 600 more posts than you! How dare you question my authority!





And by the way, I litterally laughed out loud at this!!

Oh, and you're welcome for page 7!!


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## PCHiggin (Feb 19, 2013)

*I think Its a '46*



fatbar said:


> View attachment 84809    hey look its a bike! Remember?? B I C Y C L E?haven't seen one of them on this thread for a while! Or ever!? what is this twitter?




I really like the color combo.


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## vincev (Feb 19, 2013)

Just because I am trying to get my 2000th post today doesn't mean i will do as D.M.[nincompoop] and make idiotic responses


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## vincev (Feb 19, 2013)

I repeat!!Just because I am trying to get my 2000th post today doesn't mean i will do as D.M.[nincompoop] and make idiotic responses


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## oskisan (Feb 19, 2013)

*Good call!*

who's the one who called 7 pages? Good call... I never thought it would continue this long!


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## oskisan (Feb 19, 2013)

*So Slick is the one*

Ahhh, but what if it goes over 7?? No prize then.. eh?



slick said:


> Come on page 7...i predicted it well. Can i win a P.O.S bike at least for guessing 7 pages? How about a Huffman from the thread starter? LMAO!!!!
> 
> Some bridges burn best when you "huff" and puff on the fire. LOL!!!!!!!! Get it? Huff? Huffman thrown on the fire? LOL!!


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## Boris (Feb 19, 2013)

vincev said:


> I repeat!!Just because I am trying to get my 2000th post today doesn't mean i will do as D.M.[nincompoop] and make idiotic responses




Your argument has just invalidated itself. Besides, I don't think you have it in you to get over 2000.


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## vincev (Feb 19, 2013)

Dave Marko said:


> Your argument has just invalidated itself. Besides, I don't think you have it in you to get over 2000.




I have what it takes but i wont stoop as low as you and OR and just post trash.I will take the high road and post informative facts.   Today I had a can of ravioli for lunch.:FACT


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## chitown (Feb 19, 2013)

vincev said:


> Today I had a can of ravioli for lunch.:FACT




Are you sure about that? Not that I doubt your grasp of reality, it's just that well... if that meal came from a can, many *true experts* will tell you that what you ate is the furthest thing from ravioli. Also, you may think it is ravioli because the can says so... amateurs. There are companies that re-badge or re-label those cans that come from every corner of the earth... often no more than horse meat, corn meal, various spices and some elaborate die-cutting/stamping machinery.

Just wait for a little and ignore the first few posts telling you what kind of pasta you may have ingested. The real experts are reading this and pondering when they will craft their response... hang in there... it may take a while but the truth is worth the wait.


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