# I need some Schwinn frame tip/tricks



## Danny the schwinn freak (Dec 24, 2017)

Hello all and Merry Christmas! I have an old 1950 panther staightbar frame I recently bought. I’m trying to put fork bearing cups in it so I can start putting it together. But all of them fit a little loosely. Not majorly sloppy, just loose enough to spin freely in the frame. This is the same, top and bottom no matter how many different races I try. Does anyone have any home remedies for this that don’t involve welding or brazing the opening up to make it smaller? I’ve heard rumors of people having success using JBweld to build it up slightly, sanding it to fit and then tapping them in. Just wondered what you guys suggest. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you, 
Danny


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## barneyguey (Dec 24, 2017)

They always fit tight after they have been repainted. Maybe you can paint the inside of the headtube with several coats and give it a try? Barry


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## ZE52414 (Dec 24, 2017)

Throw them in, and clamp them down. Then tig weld all the way around them.  That should keep them in place


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## Danny the schwinn freak (Dec 24, 2017)

ZE52414 said:


> Throw them in, and clamp them down. Then tig weld all the way around them.  That should keep them in place



Spoken like a true welder!


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## Danny the schwinn freak (Dec 24, 2017)

barnyguey said:


> They always fit tight after they have been repainted. Maybe you can paint the inside of the headtube with several coats and give it a try? Barry



Ok that sounds logical, although it may take many coats of paint to work. It’s a possibility. Thank you.


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## barneyguey (Dec 24, 2017)

Danny the schwinn freak said:


> Ok that sounds logical, although it may take many coats of paint to work. It’s a possibility. Thank you.



You bet! 
You could do like me and over do it on the paint job! Then you won't be able to get them in! LOL


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## ZE52414 (Dec 24, 2017)

Why not use some super thin tape around the bearing cup to act like a shim.


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## Danny the schwinn freak (Dec 24, 2017)

barnyguey said:


> You bet!
> You could do like me and over do it on the paint job! Then you won't be able to get them in! LOL



Sounds like something I would do!


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## ZE52414 (Dec 24, 2017)

No this sounds like something you would do.....


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## Danny the schwinn freak (Dec 24, 2017)

ZE52414 said:


> Why not use some super thin tape around the bearing cup to act like a shim.



I thought about that. I thought about using some beer can material as a shim. Just didn’t know if that would work or not. As cheesy as it sounds, the idea of building it up a little with in weld and sanding it to fit sounds like it would work.


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## Danny the schwinn freak (Dec 24, 2017)

ZE52414 said:


> View attachment 728561 No this sounds like something you would do.....



@ZE52414 Can I ban you from this thread?! Lol. Yer killing me! Merry Christmas to you and your family, my brother!


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## ZE52414 (Dec 24, 2017)

Danny the schwinn freak said:


> I thought about that. I thought about using some beer can material as a shim. Just didn’t know if that would work or not. As cheesy as it sounds, the idea of building it up a little with in weld and sanding it to fit sounds like it would work.



lol I was saying put them in place and weld them to the frame lmao. Totally joking. Your idea of building them up would take to long. And no one likes to grind hahaha


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## ZE52414 (Dec 24, 2017)

Danny the schwinn freak said:


> @ZE52414 Can I ban you from this thread?! Lol. Yer killing me! Merry Christmas to you and your family, my brother!



Lmao!! Just trying to help you out!! Hahaha Merry Christmas to you and your family as well man! Hope you guys have a good one!! Im sure I'll get a text in about 2 min . 

Oh hope I helped you out lmao!!


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## barneyguey (Dec 24, 2017)

ZE52414 said:


> Throw them in, and clamp them down. Then tig weld all the way around them.  That should keep them in place



HA! HA! HA! HA! That cracks me up! Barry


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## RustySprockets (Dec 24, 2017)

On a more serious note, has anyone considered using frame blocks like these to slightly compress the tubing to a uniform, snug fit?  I know these are intended for dents, but it occurs to me that they might do the job.


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## Danny the schwinn freak (Dec 24, 2017)

RustySprockets said:


> On a more serious note, has anyone considered using frame blocks like these to slightly compress the tubing to a uniform, snug fit?  I know these are intended for dents, but it occurs to me that they might do the job.
> 
> View attachment 728568



Crazy! I’ve never even seen those before. Those would surely do the job. It’s just the slightest bit flared. Those are really cool. I’ll google them and see if that’s a possibility, thank you!


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## buickmike (Dec 24, 2017)

Hi.  Everybody. Merry Christmas.     What. I      did on my 48 was put a cup meant for locking fork. The increase in length often makes the difference. Now the cup locates into the part of the headtube unaffected by wear worked for me


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## barneyguey (Dec 24, 2017)

RustySprockets said:


> On a more serious note, has anyone considered using frame blocks like these to slightly compress the tubing to a uniform, snug fit?  I know these are intended for dents, but it occurs to me that they might do the job.
> 
> View attachment 728568



I like that the best of all! That's cool! Barry


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## Danny the schwinn freak (Dec 24, 2017)

buickmike said:


> Hi.  Everybody. Merry Christmas.     What. I      did on my 48 was put a cup meant for locking fork. The increase in length often makes the difference. Now the cup locates into the part of the headtube unaffected by wear worked for me



That’s a great idea. But finding two of those may prove to be a challenge and an expensive one at that. But I like the idea and will see if I can put my hands on a pair of those.


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## Danny the schwinn freak (Dec 24, 2017)

I wouldn’t even be opposed to buying some fancy aftermarket aluminum one from White industries or somebody like that if I could get an accurate measurement on the frame


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## GTs58 (Dec 24, 2017)

What's the easiest way? Just set the cup with bearing end down on the workbench and slightly flare out the bottom of the cup with the right size socket or flaring tool. Or as bubba G would do, just bend it out a wee bit with two sets of pliers/vice grips.


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## Cooper S. (Dec 24, 2017)

I'd just use some epoxy or really thick glue.


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## BWbiker (Dec 24, 2017)

I have an old Whizzer frame that had flared head tube ends. I was able to put a piece of solid stock inside for support, and tap it back in place with a small shot filled hammer. No paint loss using this method!


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## spoker (Dec 24, 2017)

hasnt anyone hear heard of locktite?


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## tryder (Dec 24, 2017)

spoker said:


> hasnt anyone hear heard of locktite?



Yes! Locktite Sleeve Retainer works great!


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## SJ_BIKER (Dec 24, 2017)

Maybe buy a set of repop cups??...that stuff never fit on original frames....maybe this time it will


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## bikemonkey (Dec 25, 2017)

In the shops I worked in back in the day (mid-70's - 1980s) if we had a Huffy, Murray, etc. that needed new bb bearings or head bearings and the cups fell out (as above) we did the following:

If the cups would fit somewhat tight but still too loose to leave the shop - we cut drink can shims (it was better metal back then) and they were usually the best fix.

If the cups were Really loose, we would take the cup and put the sleeve portion in a vise and slightly deform it (not the race) and then press it back in - voila!

In really bad cases involving third shift bikes, I have even known a frustrated mechanic to slightly deform the bb shell with a hammer...you want yer bike fixed or not?


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## frampton (Dec 25, 2017)

Beer can shim. Quick and easy.


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## Danny the schwinn freak (Dec 25, 2017)

frampton said:


> Beer can shim. Quick and easy.



I was thinking that might work. I mean I have beer cans, but they are all full. I guess I’ll have to empty 6 or 8 to make sure I have plenty of shim stock.


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## frampton (Dec 25, 2017)

Empty one before the job. Finish the rest while admiring your clever workmanship.


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## Dizzle Problems (Dec 25, 2017)

maybe a bmx headset? Most ‘American 1 inch’ headsets are 32.5, where as there are some bmx headsets out there that are 32.6 and 32.7. I have one where the cups were too big to press into a ‘57 Schwinn.

That being said, if I had cups on had that are just a little loose, I’d go beer can shim


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## Jeff54 (Dec 25, 2017)

GTs58 said:


> What's the easiest way? Just set the cup with bearing end down on the workbench and slightly flare out the bottom of the cup with the right size socket or flaring tool. Or as bubba G would do, just bend it out a wee bit with two sets of pliers/vice grips.




I'd prob do the same as this, flare em out a bit. but first i'd be carefully tapping the head tube in, with a light weight flat side and round side  ball peen hammer. gentle taps and patience. . use some leather and or  soft pine on the painted tube so ya won't knock or crack the paint. and as the head tube is thicker, harder to reshape,  knock the top side cylinder of cups into a slight oval then oval out the middle to get em balanced 4 sides and or 8.. Paints and glue might be the easy way out but  much weaker than metal against metal. Murphy likes that. (murphy's law) glue, epoxy and paints  as fillers on metals especially old just don't stick.   hot lead is better than that plus, you can sand or grind it back down wit wood pole to hoone it into right size. or just roughing it wit dremmel type tool to get the right shape.but kisa your paint good bye. 'bah, bah, bye,' bye!'.   Aluminum cans for shimming not good, aluminum and steel causes electrolysis,, eats both> refer to murphy.


Of course your best bet is to buy a perfect shaped  mold and squeeze em back, but that's if ya want to buy a tool you'll have to look at for the rest you life. but if ya finds some realy old, hardened wood, and a friggen drill bit that;s tough enough to drill all the way through it, then cut in half, wala!
*Wood Species* *Specific Gravity** *Compressive Strength (psi)*
Hickory -------------0.72 ------------------------9,210
Maple, ---------Hard 0.63 ----------------------7,830
Maple,----------- Soft 0.54--------------------- 6,540
Oak, Red--------- 0.63------------------------- 6,760


Alternitively  Practice with a ball pin hammer on sheet metal, you be surprised how many things you can reshape wit em.  I don't seem to have the patence or skill I did as a teen through my late 50's but dam I used to tap some sweet smooth into chrome fenders and stuff like that. Painted is much easier as not so much shine to see the tapping, and if done right, soft and gental  it'll retain it's sticking to the metal and you can buff out your marks. but chrome,, you had to get up real close to see my signature. But still I'd guess I could knock around t he head post some and flare the cups to fill the gaps and stick those puppies. Keep in mind that, when you bend steel back without hard steel behind it, which continues to temper/forged ( squish them crystals tighter) , , you've taken it's temper out,, it would require re-tempering or  forging  (squish crystalline tighter ) to harden it back, so, Murphy's in play.  So try and keep steel behind the metal you're screwing up.

I can remember NOT having a ball peen in my tool box, or my dad's since was a wee child, no craftsman/or wo, should be without em


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## mruiz (Dec 25, 2017)

Teflon tape, plumbers type.


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## Trout (Dec 28, 2017)

I have used the beer can shim. Cut a tube out of beer can to correct dia. and 1 inch longer then you need. Slather with anti-seeze and place inside tube, leave 1 inch sticking out. Cut from edge of protruding shim straight to head tube with scisors in 6-7 places. Now bend the strips of protruding shim over the head tube. This will help hold it from slipping, you can even put a hose clamp on it to hold even better. Install headset. 
With a vintage frame like yours I would do this as a last resort only. Now I have a toy lathe (Sherline) so I would turn down a BMX headset if I didn't care if it original.


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## old hotrod (Dec 31, 2017)

Leave the hammers alone, the tubing is stretched and damaged and hitting it will damage it more...albeit only a very slight amount. The simplest but not cheapest would be to use the cups for locking forks as previously explained. Try the beercan shim first, if it is too thick, thinner shim material is available from automotive machine shops if you can find one. There is also an old school fix, find a socket the size of the ID of the flange on the cup, the part that presses into the head tube. Put the socket with cup into a strong vice. Use a center punch to punch a series of indents all around the outside of the flange on the cup. When you center punch the steel, it creates a raised ring around the punch mark. Do it uniformly around the outside of the flange and this will make the flange fit a little tighter. This picture is to show the pattern of punch marks used to fix the inside of a wheel hub for example only, I do not recommend punching the inside of the head tube, punch the outside of the flange on the cup. Cups can always be replaced, screw up the headtube and the frame is done.


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## Danny the schwinn freak (Dec 31, 2017)

I ended up using the JB-weld method and built up the ID of the headtibe slightly with a thin coat top and bottom. Then, I sanded it to fit the cups tightly then pressed them in to the frame. They went in nice and snug. It worked like a charm and no hammers or beating were needed. It’s nice and tight and works perfectly.


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## Osterr (Jan 17, 2018)

Strips from an aluminum soda can works great!


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## Danny the schwinn freak (Jan 18, 2018)

Mine was a little beyond that. The in weld buildup method worked like a dream. I’ve been riding the bike since I finished it this last Monday and it’s perfect. Thanks for the info, though. I’ll remeber that next time I have one that’s a little loose.


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