# Rudge Year & Model?



## wrongway

I bought this bike from someone here last year and I've been trying to nail down the model and what year it is. Any thoughts? The serial number is: 61826 AJ. I thought I read somewhere that bikes made in Ireland had a decal for a head badge? Any truth to that?


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## PCHiggin

Look for a 2 digit number on the rear hub shell,that will give you the year.


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## wrongway

PCHiggin said:


> Look for a 2 digit number on the rear hub shell,that will give you the year.



....I forgot to mention that....there isn't any numbers on the hub. The removable ends on the hub are black.


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## wrongway

The spokes aren't Stainless Steel so it might be possible that the wheels aren't correct?


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## Oilit

wrongway said:


> The spokes aren't Stainless Steel so it might be possible that the wheels aren't correct?



Have you got a picture of the hub? Is it a Sturmey - Archer? If it's not the original hub then I'm out of my depth.


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## wrongway

Some more photos.....


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## dnc1

AW Hub was introduced in 1936, so that would be your starting point.
Head tube transfer states it's built in Nottingham, so probably post Raleigh takeover, late 1940's at earliest.
Try the  Veteran Cycle Club Library for catalogue images:

www.veterancycleclublibrary.org.uk


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## SirMike1983

I would say late 1940s era, probably '46-49. Looks like it has fishmouth lugs and the 1940s-type black cable shifter stop. In 1949-50, the bikes started going over to a braze-on shifter pulley set up. Before that was the all-metal clamp, usually painted black like this one. The black-sided and black hardware on the AW is consistent with that. It's somewhat normal to find a no-date AW from the 1940s - they seem to have been  mostly made around WWII - just before and just after the war. 

What's a little confusing is that the front hub has a silver-side rather than the black center disc. 1940s-early 50s should have a black center disc on that front dynohub. Does the front hub have a date on it? The dynohubs often do, but this may be a slightly later replacement from the 1950s with that silver center disc at the terminals. The issue with the black disc is that an early plastic was used for the center disc around the terminal area. These often cracked, shrank or distorted with exposure to bad conditions. The solution was that Sturmey went to a silver-colored metal disc around the terminals to strengthen that area of the dynohub in the early 1950s.

Looks like the handlebars are also black (?) - that would be consistent with immediate post-war/late 1940s era. So my guess is this bike was made fairly shortly after WWII, but it has a few replacement parts on it.


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## mongeese




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## wrongway

SirMike1983 said:


> I would say late 1940s era, probably '46-49. Looks like it has fishmouth lugs and the 1940s-type black cable shifter stop. In 1949-50, the bikes started going over to a braze-on shifter pulley set up. Before that was the all-metal clamp, usually painted black like this one. The black-sided and black hardware on the AW is consistent with that. It's somewhat normal to find a no-date AW from the 1940s - they seem to have been  mostly made around WWII - just before and just after the war.
> 
> What's a little confusing is that the front hub has a silver-side rather than the black center disc. 1940s-early 50s should have a black center disc on that front dynohub. Does the front hub have a date on it? The dynohubs often do, but this may be a slightly later replacement from the 1950s with that silver center disc at the terminals. The issue with the black disc is that an early plastic was used for the center disc around the terminal area. These often cracked, shrank or distorted with exposure to bad conditions. The solution was that Sturmey went to a silver-colored metal disc around the terminals to strengthen that area of the dynohub in the early 1950s.
> 
> Looks like the handlebars are also black (?) - that would be consistent with immediate post-war/late 1940s era. So my guess is this bike was made fairly shortly after WWII, but it has a few replacement parts on it.



Yes, I was in a hurry and distracted when I posted this yesterday. The front wheel did not come with the bike. Neither did the light. The bike came with a Schwinn front rim. There is a ghosting of a 'RUDGE' decal on the seat tube and 'Rudge - Whitworth' on the chaincase. No other noticeable decals.


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## RidgeWalker

Great analysis Sir Mike!  Thank you for that.
Nice bike WrongWay!  I have an all original '52 Rudge (based on hub date) which has chrome, no black, and the brazed on pulley mount. It probably won't help you, but the serial number on mine is 317860 R.
I believe Raleigh acquired Rudge in 1943.
One source for Raleigh serial numbers indicates AJ as being used in 1948.  I would not assume that is 100% correct but it is another data point for you.
I have a '47 Raleigh with similar hub, black handlebars.  My Raleigh has the trigger with the long arm.
Could you provide a closeup of the trigger shifter and the patent number from it?


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## wrongway

I also have what I believe is a '59 Rudge that is in rough shape. It has the brazed-on pulley system. I could post a picture of the shifter, but it is the wrong one from the 60's. Let me know if you still want to see that. What does the original one look like?


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## RidgeWalker

Too bad the original shifter is missing, but newer ones will function fine.  I believe what it would have had originally is a GC3 with the long handle. But SA changed from the long handle to a shorter handle right around 1948; if your bike had the original shifter we'd be more confident in dating the bike. The photo below is the long handle version from http://genetics.mgh.harvard.edu/hanczyc/pdfs/satriggers.pdf.


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## wrongway

I'm certainly comfortable with the advice and the dating of the bike I've gotten. Thanks very much! It sure seems like a good fit. Here is as good of a shot as I can get of the one decal on it.


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## SirMike1983

wrongway said:


> I also have what I believe is a '59 Rudge that is in rough shape. It has the brazed-on pulley system. I could post a picture of the shifter, but it is the wrong one from the 60's. Let me know if you still want to see that. What does the original one look like?




1958 Raleigh Sports - braze-on pulley.


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## wrongway

SirMike1983 said:


> 1958 Raleigh Sports - braze-on pulley.
> 
> View attachment 800369



Yep, that's what my '59 has.


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