# The Tale of Two Humbers



## 3-speeder (Sep 12, 2021)

I'll start by saying that this thread was a long time coming and I have a lot of pictures to add so it will take a few posts to fit it all in.  

In the summer of 2020 I found an old Humber Sports for sale on the local CL.  After reading about the bike in the thread linked below I had really taken a shine to the way these bikes looked,  loved the fork.  I picked up the CL bike and it had the larger 23" frame and was in pretty rough shape.  I thought if I picked up the antique shop bike I might be able to have enough good parts to make the 23" pretty nice so I made it a mission to get that bike.  The antique shop bike has a 21" frame so it's not my preferred size so not too important to keep it nice. Turns out that both bikes were in pretty bad shape but the 21" was actually a little worse.  

The owner of the UP antique shop was opening a second store in Houghton Lake MI, only a couple hours away from me, and agreed to bring the bike there if I wanted it.  I agreed and so I was committed to the purchase sight unseen and ended up paying too much but what the heck.  I loved it.  

I didn't get any more before shots of the 21" antique shop bike so you have to just view the ones in the thread.  The 23" before shots will be below along with the progression of each bike. 

Here's the link to the og post on the 21"








						Humber Sports 3-speed with tubular front fork. | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

I came across this English bicycle at an antique shop. Humber Sports bike with interesting tubular duplex front fork. Dyno generator front hub and Sturmey Archer 3-speed rear hub.   Anyone know what years it was produced? I'm guessing 1950's but I suspect someone else here is more knowledgeable...




					thecabe.com
				




And now for some before pictures of the 23".


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## 3-speeder (Sep 12, 2021)

I'll start with the work on the 21".  The tear down was not easy.  The bottom bracket adjustable cup was frozen in place with rust so after trying many other ways I decided to cut the cup along the raised area in order to get a better grip on it. I already had a replacement for it so why not.












I had to put it in a bench vise and rotate the frame to brake it loose and trust me even after soaking it with oil it was still tough.  The whole bench lifted off the floor in the process.  I did scuff up the BB opening but it filed smooth pretty well and is hidden by the lock ring any way.

I also had a helluva time getting the pedal out of the drive side crank.  I had already given up and put in a Raleigh crane head 44 tooth as a place keeper until I could get that pedal free.  The rear wheel was shot because the rim had been badly mis-shapen.  Looked like maybe water had frozen inside of it and pushed the area where the tire sits way out of wack.  I had a modern Raleigh rim but it was a 36 hole and the SA hub was 40 so what now?  Well I remembered that I had picked up a '56 Schwinn 3-speed wheel and that hub was 36 hole so.... back in business.  The rear wheel on the 21" would be a replacement, Raleigh rim with a former Schwinn SA hub.  The rest of the bike cleaned up with a lot of elbow grease, evaporust, 0000 steel wool and WD40.  I left this bike rough on the outside but fully rebuilt on the inside, preserving the crust on the frame, fenders, fork and such. Even left the crusty busted out reflector housing with no reflector.

This bike had been repainted but they did avoid painting over the tube and chaincase transfers.  It also has replacement fender braces up front.  I used the Raleigh style grips on the bars because I like how they feel and this bike is a RI build.  I had the B72 sitting around so on it went.  More pictures.

























































A sharp eye will notice that at one point I had a taller stem and deeper swept bars in place for easier riding.  It's back to the og now as you'll see below


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## 3-speeder (Sep 12, 2021)

I did end up getting the pedal out of the drive-side crank, er I should say my buddy got it out... with a torch and some vise grips, after dismantling the pedal down to a bare shaft.  I love the chainwheels on these bikes.  Looks like a bunch of hippies dancing around....  Haha....  Don't eat the brown acid.












Anyway.... the og chainwheel is cleaned and back in place inside the chaincase.  Tis' a shame to hide such a groovy chainwheel.

The front dynohub was cleaned and rehabbed and puts out the proper voltage but the lights do not work.  I think the switch plate inside the front light is too rusty and isn't making good contact.  All the components are in place though and it looks pretty cool.  The bike rides really nice and in fact I just put about 8 miles on it yesterday.  It operates quite silently other than the hum of the chain motion inside the case and the ticking of the SA hub.  No rubbing inside the chain-case thankfully because those things are tricky to work with.  More pics of the 21".


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## 3-speeder (Sep 12, 2021)

Look for the rehab of the 23" next


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## gkeep (Sep 12, 2021)

Those aren't hippies, they're Druids. 😆

Great rescue, really classy looking ride!


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## dubsey55 (Sep 12, 2021)

Nice work 3-speeder!,   I have owned many examples of vintage  british machinery. Bikes, cars , motorcycles, etc., and always felt they looked even better with some,  "use".   Adds to the charm, and they wear it well!   Of couse, who doesnt appreciate a great original condition, but I prefer maintained to restored anytime.  Lots of good work there, 3-speeder. bringing em' back, and attesting to how well these really were made. Back when the world was a different place.   Keep at it!!


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## jimbo53 (Sep 13, 2021)

That’s a lot of work 3-speeder and cudos for sticking to it to get that bottom bracket freed up. Like you, I like to keep my bikes original, and you did a great job saving this old girl. Looking forward to seeing the 23” get the same treatment. 
I collect non-Raleigh Brit bikes and a twin fork 23” Humber is one of my holy grail bikes. Here in the US it’s a challenge to find decent Brit roadster style bikes at all, let alone oddball marques that most people haven’t heard of. I have 7 so far per my signature and have a couple more in my sights. 
Keep up the good work!


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## Allrounderco (Sep 13, 2021)

Thanks - I have been looking forward to this thread since you mentioned you picked up the antique shop bike in the other thread. Thanks again for the advice about the grips, and also for the close-up on the reflector (I'm missing that as well).


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## SirMike1983 (Sep 13, 2021)

Rudge, Humber, and Raleigh represented the best brands of the Raleigh Industries lineup. I've seen it argued that the top was Rudge, then Humber, then Raleigh, but my experience has been that the quality of all three is about the same, which is to say, very good. They did not display the downmarket elements of some of the more budget brands in the RI lineup. All were offered in black, though each brand had its own characteristic "posh color" offering as well - Humber was dark blue, Rudge was a burgundy kind of color, and Raleigh was dark green. The posh colors tend to be more valuable than the black, but the bike itself is of no lesser quality.

And each brand had its own unique fork: Humber had the duplex; Rudge had heavy-duty, sloped shoulder; and Raleigh had the thimble. The Humber is the most unique fork, while the Rudge was arguably the strongest design (these forks also formed the basis for RI's "heavy duty" replacement fork line for a time). At some point in the 1960s, cust-cutting caused Humber and Rudge to lose their unique fork designs and go to a more standard design. The manner in which the fork blade dropouts were attached also changed to some degree.

So any pre-1960s Rudge or Humber is quite collectible today because they tend to have the quirky features of each brand. They are arguably more valuable and collectible than an equal condition Raleigh from the same year because of the different features. Extra value is given for a large 23 inch frame, intact chain case, rear rack, dynohub, etc. 

With the tall bike, I don't know exactly what should be done about the finish. I guess I would be inclined to try oxalic acid with that amount of rust. The usual mechanical removal of rust is good for a bike in better condition, but sometimes oxalic acid (properly applied) will do surprisingly well when you have more rust. The black paint is pretty durable. The white is more prone to chip, wear, and fade, but as old paint goes, it's also fairly good. Maybe try a smaller part in oxalic acid first and see how it goes. Otherwise, you can remove the rust manually, but with that much, it's going to be a lot of work.


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## 3-speeder (Sep 13, 2021)

Thank you.  I should have mentioned that I completed the rehab on these bikes in the fall and early winter of 2020 but never took the time to post this.


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## juvela (Sep 13, 2021)

-----

is it known who produced the crowns employed with the Humber quad bladed fork?


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## dnc1 (Sep 13, 2021)

Rudge were actually offering quite a range of colours,  as illustrated in this page from the '54/'55 French/Flemish version of their catalogue.....





...obviously not all of these may have been available on all models.  (Image from V-CC library).



juvela said:


> -----
> 
> is it known who produced the crowns employed with the Humber quad bladed fork?
> 
> ...



I'm guessing that they may have been produced in house in the vast Raleigh factory in Nottingham.
The original forks were dropped from the Humber line-up before 1910i(sh) I believe and subsequently reintroduced when Raleigh took them over, to act as a distinguishing feature as mentioned above by @SirMike1983 .


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## 3-speeder (Sep 13, 2021)

Looking back at the images I have noticed a couple of things.  The 21" received a replacement front dynohub wheel as indicated by the date stamp.  I just looked at the original in my basement with a date stamp of 7 53 which matches up pretty good to the og rear hub stamp of 53 6.  The og front wheel was toasted like the rear. Lukily I had some period correct pieces to put decent wheels underneath this bike.  The other thing is that the shifter currently on the 21" was the og shifter from the 23".  Hard to believe it but after a soak in evaporust, a good cleaning and some lube it actually functions quite well.


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## 3-speeder (Sep 13, 2021)

On to the 23".   Sir Mike should have said "spoiler alert"  hahaha.  The 23" definitely got an OA bath.  Every piece from the fenders to the fork to the bars and wheels.  The front dynohub was taken apart with all the guts cleaned separately and the wheel went in the soup. The back hoop was stripped off the wheel and in it went, later to be laced with new spokes.  The OA bath worked good but a few areas of the frame had additional derusting by applying an evaporust soaked papertowel sealed in plastic wrap (as described on the container).

One of the coolest things about this bike is the blackened chainwheel.  It is so cool looking that I really want to run without the pie-plate on the chaincase just to show it off.  I actually did for a while but the case squares up better with the pie plate in.  With this bike I had a harder time getting the chain not to rub inside the chaincase but it is about 95% good.  I noticed when I had the bikes apart that the chainwheel from the 21" was so straight that it didn't really have any wobble side to side as it went around.  The black one from the 23" would have about an 1/8" to maybe 3/16"  sway.  Likely why it was harder to align well.
I also like the nameplate on the downtube.  Tom was a local bicycling enthusiast. I never met him before he passed but his friend, the man who sold me the bike, said he would be happy with the rehab and cleanup of the bike.  Thanks Tom for hanging onto this beautiful machine.

I installed a shifter that I had set aside from another project that I knew was working well.  I cleaned and rebuilt the pedals and they are in pretty good shape. I like how the bike sits straight with the double kickstand so that will stay on in place of the original, which I think went onto the 21".  The front dynohub puts out good voltage but again the lights don't work.  I tested the rear light independently and that works, super cool, but I couldn't trouble shoot the problem.  That project goes on.  You will see that I had an old Brooks saddle in place that I think came on the bike.  It was nice and soft but kinda beat up.  I had a new B66 in my stock so that is what ended up on there.  I also started out with the original bars and stem, which cleaned up surprisingly well, but switched to the taller stem and deeper swept bars that I had on the 21" for a bit.  This bike fits me just right and is really fun to ride.  I even found a nice old bell for it but haven't got any pics of that yet.

Here are some Images of the 23"


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## 3-speeder (Sep 13, 2021)

I am just really glad that I could get both bikes on the road.  Here are more pics of the 23".  You'll see the original bars and stem and the replacement set.


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## SirMike1983 (Sep 14, 2021)

It's hard to tell how many of the other colors made it onto bikes that went to the US market. The catalogs have quite a few colors, but when a pre-1955 Raleigh turns up in the US, it's so often black.  Once in awhile, a burgundy Rudge or a blue Humber will turn up. A bit more frequently, a dark/superbe green Raleigh will turn up. People tend to call it "British Racing Green" here because it's a British bike and it's dark green, so those get tied up. It's a shame in that some of the catalog colors look like they would be really nice, but most of what seems to have come over to the US from that era was painted black.

I think that's about as good a job as could be done on the tall bike. Many of these were outdoor bikes or kept in places where there might be water or dampness all year (sheds, basements, dirt floor garages). I think most people tried to keep them up, but they were a utilitarian item still for going to school, riding around campus, or delivering newspapers.


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## Allrounderco (Sep 14, 2021)

3-speeder said:


> I am just really glad that I could get both bikes on the road.  Here are more pics of the 23".  You'll see the original bars and stem and the replacement set.
> 
> View attachment 1478022
> 
> ...





Whoa - that came out pretty nice! I have a Raleigh Sports Light Coaster (22L) in similar shape to this one's starting point. It's been the bike I've been telling myself I'll use as my foray into OA. Part of what's holding me back is if it comes out looking like yours, I won't want to leave it out in the weather anymore . Anyway, this is giving me food for thought...

Oh, and nice twin leg stand, too! Is there a maker's mark on it?


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## 3-speeder (Sep 14, 2021)

Thanks guys.  It was a bummer to finish up the tall one last winter and not be able to ride it until spring.  I even had to wait a while for a nice rain to wash away all the winter road salt.  Too much work on the rust removal to invite it back so easily.  I think the double stander was a Trogg?  I'll double check that.... no pun intended... haha


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## 3-speeder (Sep 14, 2021)

Well I was close.  I like the large clamping area of this stand.  Stays in place easily without crushing the chain stays.


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## SirMike1983 (Sep 14, 2021)

The Trygg is a well-made stand. I used to have a double-leg Trygg on my 1974 Raleigh Sports. The downsides of them are that the bodies sometimes crack at the center, where the stress of the two legs is, and the clamps tend to flatten the chainstays where you clamp them. They are one of the better-made stands, and a good choice if you like the two-leg style stand. I eventually converted my Sports over to an ESGE made specifically for Raleigh.


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## 3-speeder (Sep 14, 2021)

Something that I've learned about myself after several recent rehabs is that I really like bringing rusty abandoned wrecks back to life.  It's really rewarding for me. It is definitely more of a challenge to take a bike that may be a 3 or 4 and turn it into a 6 than it is to take a bike from a 7 to an 8 or equivalent.  I really enjoy riding a bike that at one point may have been looked at as nothing more than scrap metal.  I can kinda feel the bike purring underneath me as I ride.


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## Threespeedmafia (Sep 14, 2021)

Nice job! I found a rusty, step-through at a bike co-op in their “sell as is” pile.  They rehab and sell many bikes but anything requiring too much work is sold as is.  Of course I was enamored with the duplex fork, but when I pulled the door open on the chain case and saw that beautiful chain ring, I knew she was coming home with me.  She was a lot of work but she rides so easy and smooth.  I added the mudguards and my son was determined to use a quadrant shifter.


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## 3-speeder (Sep 14, 2021)

Threespeedmafia said:


> Nice job! I found a rusty, step-through at a bike co-op in their “sell as is” pile.  They rehab and sell many bikes but anything requiring too much work is sold as is.  Of course I was enamored with the duplex fork, but when I pulled the door open on the chain case and saw that beautiful chain ring, I knew she was coming home with me.  She was a lot of work but she rides so easy and smooth.  I added the mudguards and my son was determined to use a quadrant shifter.View attachment 1478796
> 
> View attachment 1478797



Awesome! Love that badge!  Look how well it's retained those colors.  Beautiful machine.


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## Threespeedmafia (Sep 15, 2021)

3-speeder said:


> Awesome! Love that badge!  Look how well it's retained those colors.  Beautiful machine.



Thanks, 3-speeder.


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## Oilit (Sep 15, 2021)

Threespeedmafia said:


> Nice job! I found a rusty, step-through at a bike co-op in their “sell as is” pile.  They rehab and sell many bikes but anything requiring too much work is sold as is.  Of course I was enamored with the duplex fork, but when I pulled the door open on the chain case and saw that beautiful chain ring, I knew she was coming home with me.  She was a lot of work but she rides so easy and smooth.  I added the mudguards and my son was determined to use a quadrant shifter.View attachment 1478796
> 
> View attachment 1478797



Is there a date on the hub? With the quadrant shifter, I'm guessing '40s maybe?


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## Threespeedmafia (Sep 16, 2021)

Oilit said:


> Is there a date on the hub? With the quadrant shifter, I'm guessing '40s maybe?



Sorry, it is a mid fifties.  The hub had mud in the oil port and the original trigger shifter was toast.  I rebuilt the hub and had a quadrant shifter laying around and my son insisted on using it instead of using a more modern trigger.  Even though we zig-zagged the cable, I think it still gives the bars a less cluttered look.


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## Oilit (Sep 16, 2021)

Threespeedmafia said:


> Sorry, it is a mid fifties.  The hub had mud in the oil port and the original trigger shifter was toast.  I rebuilt the hub and had a quadrant shifter laying around and my son insisted on using it instead of using a more modern trigger.  Even though we zig-zagged the cable, I think it still gives the bars a less cluttered look.



No need to apologize, you did an excellent job bringing that bike back.


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## JoNy (Sep 18, 2021)

Looking good!


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## jimbo53 (Nov 9, 2021)

3-speeder said:


> On to the 23".   Sir Mike should have said "spoiler alert"  hahaha.  The 23" definitely got an OA bath.  Every piece from the fenders to the fork to the bars and wheels.  The front dynohub was taken apart with all the guts cleaned separately and the wheel went in the soup. The back hoop was stripped off the wheel and in it went, later to be laced with new spokes.  The OA bath worked good but a few areas of the frame had additional derusting by applying an evaporust soaked papertowel sealed in plastic wrap (as described on the container).
> 
> One of the coolest things about this bike is the blackened chainwheel.  It is so cool looking that I really want to run without the pie-plate on the chaincase just to show it off.  I actually did for a while but the case squares up better with the pie plate in.  With this bike I had a harder time getting the chain not to rub inside the chaincase but it is about 95% good.  I noticed when I had the bikes apart that the chainwheel from the 21" was so straight that it didn't really have any wobble side to side as it went around.  The black one from the 23" would have about an 1/8" to maybe 3/16"  sway.  Likely why it was harder to align well.
> I also like the nameplate on the downtube.  Tom was a local bicycling enthusiast. I never met him before he passed but his friend, the man who sold me the bike, said he would be happy with the rehab and cleanup of the bike.  Thanks Tom for hanging onto this beautiful machine.
> ...




This is crazy, but I have a 1950 Armstrong with the EXACT same "Tom" decal/label as this bike. Wonder if they were owned by the same person? It's a small world, so who knows??


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## 3-speeder (Nov 9, 2021)

jimbo53 said:


> This is crazy, but I have a 1950 Armstrong with the EXACT same "Tom" decal/label as this bike. Wonder if they were owned by the same person? It's a small world, so who knows??
> View attachment 1509886
> 
> View attachment 1509888



You know I thought the same thing when I read your post but never logged in to reply.  The Tom that owned my Humber was a bicycling enthusiast.  If he kept this old Humber might he have had an old Armstrong?  There's a chance.  I also got a chill when I saw you decided to call your bike Tom,  that's what I'm calling my bike.  If it was the same Tom he's up there smiling about these two.


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## Dewane (Dec 5, 2021)

SirMike1983 said:


> Rudge, Humber, and Raleigh represented the best brands of the Raleigh Industries lineup. I've seen it argued that the top was Rudge, then Humber, then Raleigh, but my experience has been that the quality of all three is about the same, which is to say, very good. They did not display the downmarket elements of some of the more budget brands in the RI lineup. All were offered in black, though each brand had its own characteristic "posh color" offering as well - Humber was dark blue, Rudge was a burgundy kind of color, and Raleigh was dark green. The posh colors tend to be more valuable than the black, but the bike itself is of no lesser quality.
> 
> And each brand had its own unique fork: Humber had the duplex; Rudge had heavy-duty, sloped shoulder; and Raleigh had the thimble. The Humber is the most unique fork, while the Rudge was arguably the strongest design (these forks also formed the basis for RI's "heavy duty" replacement fork line for a time). At some point in the 1960s, cust-cutting caused Humber and Rudge to lose their unique fork designs and go to a more standard design. The manner in which the fork blade dropouts were attached also changed to some degree.
> 
> ...



I’d always heard the Humber fork described as “bifurcated”. This is some nice restoration work.


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## toco (Dec 28, 2021)

Nice job, fun to see. I love the Druid cranks. The license is from Ann Arbor Michigan and was probably sold by Beavers Bike Shop. In the 50, 60s there were racks and racks of Raleigh bikes on campus. By the mid seventies they were nearly all gone.


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