# If Everyone Paid Retail?????



## jkent (Mar 1, 2014)

I have a question that I guess is in my head because I'm just a "Dumb Newbie" at this.
But I have seen Several threads lately on rare items : Red Good Year Tires, Motorbike Tank, Putter stem, HTS & Iver Johnson found in barn. 

I can understand that tensions get high when a rare item comes out of the wood work and people get there hopes up that they will be the one walking away with the item. It's a rare item for a reason and people are always on the look out for these items. So who set the market on these items? If you can't go by what you have seen them sell for on Ebay or The Cabe? Which is what I would consider the open market. 
I felt like I was prosecuted for saying that I had seen Motorbike tanks priced for as much as $1500-$2000. Now in the 4 years I have been Collecting bikes I have only seen a hand full of these tanks come up for sale. I was never asked how low have I seen them sell for. The lowest I have seen them sell for was probably around $800. And if the majority of rare items being sold are only amongst friends behind the scenes, How is someone like myself supposed to take those transactions into consideration? 
Is there a rule here on The Cabe that if you don't have 10+ years in the hobby, Your knowledge is worthless and considered a useless? 
I was informed by someone that didn't agree with what I had to say that the majority of Cabe members Didn't like my attitude.? 
And wanted me gone from the Forum Completely. 
Is this because I'm not as informed as other members? Or because I think like this? 



If everyone Pays retail for every item they buy how is this a progressive hobby? 
Take the Red Good year tires for example. Do you think the seller gave over $500 ( which is what was offered out loud) for the tires?
He probably gave a couple hundred for the whole bike and this is just the parts. 
and lets just say that he was selling these tires and wheels at a swap meet and 2 people walk up and one person picks the tires up and pays for them and person #2 says man I would have gave you $500 for those.  What is person #1 supposed to do Walk away or hand the tires back to the seller????  Person #1 has already paid for the tires and he knows what he has and he knows he got a good deal. He could take the tires straight to his booth and resell them for $500 and this would pay for his trip. 
Or is person #1 supposed to tell the seller.. Hey man!!! Do you know what you have here? You have these priced way to cheap you should price these at $500.... Hmmmmm what a dilemma! 
Everyone is just trying to do one of 2 things.
#1 buy things like rare items at a real good deal.
#2 trying to find items they can make a few dollars off of.
How is this hobby supposed to grow if everyone pays Top retail on everything they buy? 
The way I see it is if both parties are good with the price. Then they both got what they wanted.
It way clearly stated on the thread the tires where sold but people still felt the need to jump in and offer a higher price and it ended up in a sour deal. 
The seller may have made some money but he also has a bad seller feed back.
The same thing nearly happened to me on a Rocket Ray light. 
I bought the light, paid for it, and it was marked paid for and the seller continued getting PM's from other members trying to buy the light that was already sold at a higher price.
Luckily the seller was a stand up person and sold the light as was stated.
There have been a lot of high tensions lately over these rare items.
Some more knowledgeable people feel that, Less knowledgeable people are some how trying to set the market.
How does one item selling, Set the market? 
The Motorbike tank wasn't even my tank. I had no dog in that race. But because I didn't have 10+ years experience in the field I have no right giving my opinion? 
I understand I will probably get a lot of backlash about this but who cares? I feel it is something that needs to be said and I do have a right. It's called freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech is the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas using one's body and property to anyone who is willing to receive them.
The right to freedom of expression this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice".
JKent


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## Hubs-n-Spokes (Mar 1, 2014)

Don't listen to what one person says. You are entitled to voice your opinion. I laugh when I see the phrase "retail". What does that mean exactly? Prices are only determined by what someone is willing to pay and that same item that went for $1500 today may not even fetch $800 tomorrow. Members themselves generate feeding frenzies and have no one but themselves to blame when certain items go through the roof. I've gotten some pretty rare items for next to nothing and have had to pay considerably more for others. As far as retail goes, there is no such thing for me in this hobby.


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## jkent (Mar 1, 2014)

Hubs-n-Spokes said:


> Don't listen to what one person says. You are entitled to voice your opinion. I laugh when I see the phrase "retail". What does that mean exactly? Prices are only determined by what someone is willing to pay and that same item that went for $1500 today may not even fetch $800 tomorrow. Members themselves generate feeding frenzies and have no one but themselves to blame when certain items go through the roof. *I've gotten some pretty rare items for next to nothing *and have had to pay considerably more for others. As far as retail goes, there is no such thing for me in this hobby.




Do you feel you took advantage of the people you bought these items from?
Do you feel you should have educated them about the item? be it before or after the sale?
JKent


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## bikewhorder (Mar 1, 2014)

I've found that the "experts" are often wrong.  The values of this stuff are not static and seem like they might be a little bubblelicious lately.  Might be a good time to cash out.


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## Hubs-n-Spokes (Mar 1, 2014)

jkent said:


> Do you feel you took advantage of the people you bought these items from?
> Do you feel you should have educated them about the item? be it before or after the sale?
> JKent



No I don't. They were on ebay and anyone could have bid on them but didn't. It all evens out when you pay more for an item than you really wanted to. Quite frankly I don't feel it's my job to educate ANY seller. I will always pay the fair price but if they determine a price and I agree to it then the deal is done. ANYONE who says they haven't gotten a dream deal on something or other is lying through their teeth.


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## Hubs-n-Spokes (Mar 1, 2014)

One other thing jkent. Old bicycles and old parts values are completely subjective. I've seen members pay a fortune for something I wouldn't even look twice at and therefore isn't worth anything to me. I don't buy to resell, I buy to keep for my own collection so it's only my value I'm concerned about.


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## Rusty2wheels (Mar 1, 2014)

From what I know the term retail means what an item sells for new that is still manufactured and available. If it is not still manufactured then it is considered obsolete.  Then there is no "retail price" for it.  It will sell for what someone is willing to pay.  There is another term used, "end user". That is also a crock, how do you know who the end user is?  Are you going to submerge the item in a concrete tomb or bury it or melt it down?  There will probably be someone else that ends up with all these tanks, putter stems, double-duty forks etc...  If you like and want something buy it, good deal or not so great of a deal.


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## rustjunkie (Mar 1, 2014)

Hubs-n-Spokes said:


> One other thing jkent. Old bicycles and old parts values are completely subjective. I've seen members pay a fortune for something I wouldn't even look twice at and therefore isn't worth anything to me....




qft, plus what is "a fortune"?
lunch money to some is big bux to others


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## Hubs-n-Spokes (Mar 1, 2014)

A fortune to me would be several thousand dollars for a Schwinn. No offense to Schwinn lovers but they are nothing I'm interested in with the exception of a select few. What does GFT mean?


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## Rusty2wheels (Mar 1, 2014)

Hubs-n-Spokes said:


> No I don't. They were on ebay and anyone could have bid on them but didn't. It all evens out when you pay more for an item than you really wanted to. Quite frankly I don't feel it's my job to educate ANY seller. I will always pay the fair price but if they determine a price and I agree to it then the deal is done. ANYONE who says they haven't gotten a dream deal on something or other is lying through their teeth.




I agree. People should either do their homework if they want to get the most out of something or not worry about it. I bought items from people who just want the stuff gone and dont care about waiting for the top dollar. I traded a pedal tractor for a jeweled tank mead ranger and got $50 to boot.  Do I care I got the better end of the deal, no.  The guy was happy he got a pedal tractor, he had no interest in the bike.  We both won in my opinion.


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## rustjunkie (Mar 1, 2014)

Hubs-n-Spokes said:


> What does GFT mean?




QFT: quoted for truth


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## Hubs-n-Spokes (Mar 1, 2014)

Whoops I need to put on my reading glasses. I misread the Q as a G.


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## hoofhearted (Mar 1, 2014)

jkent said:


> I have a question that I guess is in my head because I'm just a "Dumb Newbie" at this.
> But I have seen Several threads lately on rear items : Red Good Year Tires, Motorbike Tank, Putter stem, HTS & Iver Johnson found in barn.
> 
> I can understand that tensions get high when a rare item comes out of the wood work and people get there hopes up that they will be the one walking away with the item. It's a rare item for a reason and people are always on the look out for these items. So who set the market on these items? If you can't go by what you have seen them sell for on Ebay or The Cabe? Which is what I would consider the open market.
> ...




*JKent ... no matter how this particular event cooks out ... I am in TOTAL agreement with YOU ....  although I have no knowledge about anyone 
wanting you 'off' ... if you are tellin' me this .. I believe you ... you have been a straight shooter and have never gotten up in somebody's grill and
provoked an issue just because you could. 

JKent ... sometimes i cannot believe the amount of bike-stabbing i see on the forum .. it is totally unnecessary .. and in bad form.

Now ... if i go under the knife for having an opinion .. and a reader does not agree with me about that opinion .. tell me about it ... 
don't behave like i attacked you personally and now you need to retaliate.  I taught junior-high, public-school in Ohio .. thirty years in the 
same classroom ... that was 15 years ago ... and now .. i am seeing parallel, questionable behavior that shows a lack of respect for a fellow 
CABEr ... and .. sadly .. a lack of self respect for oneself.

.........  patric cafaro *


post script ... *TERM ... "bike-stabbing" .. originated by Leon Dixon.*


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## chitown (Mar 1, 2014)

hoofhearted said:


> post script ... *TERM ... "bike-stabbing" .. originated by Leon Dixon.*




Now THAT is good form!


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## bike (Mar 1, 2014)

*When someone offeres me someting cheap*

I do not chop them - I just say "thank you" and hand over the cash- I had a good day- why shouldn't they? I know  lot of people ALWAYS CHOP

No one needs this junk- anything above scrap is what 2 people can agree on.  If it is taking food out of your kids mouth you can't afford it.

That is why I do not have kids. (one of the myriad reasons)

MAYBE there is a "retail" (or wholesale0 but I have not found it.


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## spoker (Mar 1, 2014)

How about a milk and cookies thread,there is a weekly thread on what stuff ya found last week,how about a weekly thread that had us sharing 1 or more positive experiances that happened to you the orevious week,nothing todo with sales,could be as siple as pics of a great place you found to ride,or when you stopped somewhere and a non-bike oerson had a nice conversation about your bike,any ideas?


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## rustjunkie (Mar 1, 2014)

spoker said:


> How about a milk and cookies thread,there is a weekly thread on what stuff ya found last week,how about a weekly thread that had us sharing 1 or more positive experiances that happened to you the orevious week,nothing todo with sales,could be as siple as pics of a great place you found to ride,or when you stopped somewhere and a non-bike person had a nice conversation about your bike,any ideas?




luvit, preferable to the obverse which seems unfortunately common


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## spoker (Mar 1, 2014)

*milk and cookies*

i will put somthing on sunday eve


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## bike (Mar 1, 2014)

*Get to postin!*



spoker said:


> How about a milk and cookies thread,there is a weekly thread on what stuff ya found last week,how about a weekly thread that had us sharing 1 or more positive experiances that happened to you the orevious week,nothing todo with sales,could be as siple as pics of a great place you found to ride,or when you stopped somewhere and a non-bike oerson had a nice conversation about your bike,any ideas?




break room


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Mar 1, 2014)

I think people should take things said with a grain of salt or wit


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## Boris (Mar 1, 2014)

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> I think people should take things said with a grain of salt. ..




Two, if using low-sodium.


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## chitown (Mar 1, 2014)

Dave Marko said:


> Two, if using low-sodium.




What about himalayan salt?


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## rustjunkie (Mar 1, 2014)

chitown said:


> What about himalayan salt?




mas fina, gotta be Tibetan tho.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Mar 1, 2014)

alw said:


> mas fina, gotta be Tibetan tho.




Oh don't get me started on finishing salts......


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## bike (Mar 1, 2014)

*I save the stuff*



Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> Oh don't get me started on finishing salts......




that falls off my Penna Sour dough prezels.


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## rustjunkie (Mar 1, 2014)

Just had some Spice Lab applewood smoked no. 7 sprinkled into a bowl of soup
deee-lish


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## vincev (Mar 1, 2014)

Actually I purchased "ghost" sea salt today.It is the hottest salt on the planet.It is very hot and only a few granules should be used on food.


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## willswares1220 (Mar 1, 2014)

Vincev, I'll have to try that ghost salt sometime! A little dab'll do ya...

  Most of the time I will not pay retail for my items. I usually like some"meat on the bone" , so if I ever decide to sell in the future there will be some profit $$ there. Usually I don't collect those items anyway.
The one thread that came up recently that I would have paid retail for a certain early bicycle was the barn find thread.
That Chicago HTS that was pictured was the era I actually collect and I would have paid up handsomely for it "thousands $$$$$"
I collect and ride those early machines and fancied that bike a great deal and wanted it! 
The way things are going, I don't really think anyone here is really ever going to get any chance of purchasing it anyway. 
I think it was a case of "show & tell"


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## bikewhorder (Mar 1, 2014)

willswares1220 said:


> The way things are going, I don't really think anyone here is really ever going to get any chance of purchasing it anyway.
> I think it was a case of "show & tell"




The rumor I heard was that it was going to be included in a popular antique bicycle auction here on the east coast in April, but I have no facts to back that up.


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## jkent (Mar 1, 2014)

And the "SALT" hits the wound. Hmmm


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## willswares1220 (Mar 1, 2014)

That's what I kinda figured! Copake city.............Anyone got a Kleenex?? My eyes are watering so bad, I can't see the computer screen anymore.Ha Ha :o
On an open forums, etc. , too many collectors are able to view the item and eventually the owner is told to go to one of those high priced auctions to get that "top dollar" from those people with mucha mola $$$$$
It's only material things anyway and there's always more out there like they say!
I guess it's one way to save from overspending and keeping your money in the bank........
It's also nice to know that I can still become excited once in a while about certain bicycles that may come along and get me out of my "zombie" funk.
Most of bicycles usually come and go and I only end up keeping a few here and there. The ones I love the most. 
Oh well.....that's the way the ball bounces.......................


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## scrubbinrims (Mar 1, 2014)

I think you need a beer jkent.
If you go to MLC, I'll provide one and we'll chat over these things.
Chris


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## bike (Mar 1, 2014)

*what is*



willswares1220 said:


> ...keeping your money in the bank)



???????????!!?? I am keeping my money in the bikes (parts) I know not of which you speak (type)


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## willswares1220 (Mar 1, 2014)

Bike, that also sounds like a good investment to me!! 
At least you can see where your money goes and think of all that enjoyment that you get by looking your treasures over!


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## cyclingday (Mar 1, 2014)

I say, to each his own.
 Some guys only buy for the resale value, and that is their only equation in whether to buy or not.
 Some guys are sitting on projects they've had for years, just waiting for that elusive part to show up.
 Some guys will buy a bike no matter what it is, just to part it out to double their investment.
 I tend to be the get er done type. You know, drop the A bomb and get the F out.
 If you see something you like, and you know there are at least three other guys out there with the same part on their mind, then offer enough to shut out the speculators and stun the ones who might be willing to step up pretty strong.
Resale, has nothing to do with it for me. If at some point, the item becomes redundant, and somebody else really needs it for their bike, then I would just as soon give it to the guy than sell it. Of course some return must be achieved just to make it seem legit, but in the end, I'm not really concerned with getting every penny back. I've had some fun conversations, and made some good friends along the way, so in the end, it all evens out.


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## jkent (Mar 1, 2014)

scrubbinrims said:


> I think you need a beer jkent.
> If you go to MLC, I'll provide one and we'll chat over these things.
> Chris




I think I'll start with a cold 12 pack tonight.
JKent


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## rustystone2112 (Mar 1, 2014)

*Retail ???????????*

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS RETAIL IN THIS HOBBY, THERE CAN'T BE BY DEFINITION [retail]  REQUIRES A STORE FRONT,OR ON LINE BUSINESS THERE REALLY AREN'T ANY. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN SUPPLY AND DEMAND,AND NOBODY NEEEEEDS! ANY OF THIS STUFF. PRICES HAVE ALWAYS AND WILL ALWAYS BE DRIVEN BY THE " WANT" NOT BY THE "NEED" SO LIKE I'VE BEEN SAYING FOR THE LAST 35 YEARS IN THIS HOBBY HOW BADLY DO YOU WANT IT


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