# Need to ID this frame



## bleedingfingers (Jun 9, 2020)

Looking to Id this frame  has vertical and horizontal badge holes came with a vertical badge but does not line up right and holes are crooked and don't line up with each other .
Horizontal holes look good but were painted over by bad repaint .
Chain stays bottom bracket shell and head tube all had traces of orange paint after chemical stripping .
Forks are nickel plated with raised rib down the sides 
Not going to tell what the badge is that came with it    might bias the answer to my question but it does not fit right anyway 
serial number is E18XXX


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## gkeep (Jun 9, 2020)

Nice! the dropouts and collared lug look Westfield. That gives endless possibilities for badging, is there any ghost of the original badge?

I recall in the last few months there was a discussion about the ribbed forks. good luck with the search for origins.


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## ivrjhnsn (Jun 9, 2020)

Fork resembles one from a Ranger with the rib up the side.


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## bentwoody66 (Jun 9, 2020)

Could it be a Sears Chief?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Goldenindian (Jun 9, 2020)

The frame looks very teens Westfield to me. Almost like the Indian frame but not quite. Maybe be Columbia? .....And yes the fork looks ranger to me....but not sure...


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## Archie Sturmer (Jun 9, 2020)

1927-E Columbia built by Westfield (who else).


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## bleedingfingers (Jun 9, 2020)

Forks look just like  1922 Ranger  but then you have the collared lug  .
Goldenindian's photos have different seat stays that are lugged .
Also the Columbia rear toe piece is very similar but not the same
Will see if I can find a picture of a 1927-E Columbia


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## BatWaves (Jun 10, 2020)

What size Is the frame?


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## bleedingfingers (Jun 10, 2020)

I think you guys are hitten it pretty good saw  pics of a couple of Popes   Columbia and Westfield  frame is dead on drop outs and everything matches except forks .
As for size its at the powder coaters right now but didn't these things just come in 2 sizes regular and tall .
This one would be the regular with the short head tube .

I'm going to spill the beans now on the head badge it came with   It is a Hibbard badge but the badge hangs too low on the head tube and the holes are crooked and you could not even get the bottom screw to line up .  
The bottom of the badge goes halfway down the bottom bearing so too big .

The horizontal holes look perfect for a Columbia or Pope badge 
Can not find a picture of one with that fork though.


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## bleedingfingers (Jun 14, 2020)

Still can't find a picture of a Westfield with the fork I have .
Also I know some Hibbards had orange trim but not on the chain stays or bottom bracket shell like this bike had .
Have seen a picture on here of a 1928 Westfield built Miami that is orange but did not have the fork .
Also Archie Sturmer can you tell me what size bearings should be in the headset they are an odd size also are they in cages or loose the bottom bracket also takes an odd size but I have them .


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## SKPC (Jun 15, 2020)

Nice frame/fork!  I see remnants of red on both the fork steer tube and dropout seam.  Possible they were always together? When stripped of parts and paint and badge, it becomes a sleuthing contest as to the maker.


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## Archie Sturmer (Jun 15, 2020)

bleedingfingers said:


> Archie Sturmer can you tell me what size bearings should be in the headset they are an odd size also are they in cages or loose the bottom bracket also takes an odd size but I have them .





Goldenindian said:


> The frame looks very *teens *Westfield to me.



Like @Goldenindian said it may be earlier, teens; Westfield re-used serial number prefixes every ~12-13 years, or so.
Note the bridges in between the stays; they are curved; in the late 1920's they were straight; missed that before; and I am less familiar with earlier bikes.
[I believe what may be throwing me off track was the fork, but maybe because it is earlier than what I was originally thinking.  My 1927-E fork was also stamped with a date code letter, under the crown].

Pope Spun Head construction.
My 1927-E Westfield (straight bridges) did use an odd size headset.  Cups were about 31mm+ (maybe 1+1/4" eh).  The bearing cages were not like those offered as new today (not 30mm: 5/32 x 16).  If I recall, they were the smaller 5/32" x 17; I only find those today with the purchase of an old bike or old fork w/ bearings.  Also, my Westfield used an odd 26 threads per inch steerer tube; (26tpi threaded headset cone and nut).  The fixed cone was also an old size (like 1.00" or 25.4mm eh?).

Pope Anti-Weave hangar bracket.
My 1927-E Westfield used under-sized bottom bracket cups; I believe modern bearing cages will fit; I like the modern 5/16" x 12 sets, (came with 5/16 x 10).  The cones were an odd coarse thread, 20-tpi, to fit the Double-D drive crank.  If these 20tpi cones are worn, one may have to swap-out the whole crankset and DD sprocket to make-do, (at least temporarily, if used replacements cannot be found).

I had a relative (pioneer) who lived in Saskatchewan).  Another member from greater SK prairies posting recently, @225trike


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## SKPC (Jun 15, 2020)

"Still can't find a picture of a Westfield with the fork I have" 

Your fork may be a side-ribbed Mead.  See below confirmed Mead fork.  Also, yours looks to have a steer tube too long for the frame...


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## bleedingfingers (Jun 15, 2020)

Thank you Archie mine also has very fine threads and the bearing info will definitely help me ( yes I know we are the metric people eh)
crank bearing cups are very small and were difficult to find as I didn't buy them with the frame but had some help from some good guys on this site .
Ended up with a crankset off a Hawthorne works so all good .
No modern stuff fits .
225trike guy is pretty close to were I live saw he was looking for some stuff for a skip tooth bike very scarce around here .

Thanks SKPC that's definitely the same fork and truss rods I have seen them on a bunch of 20s Meads  but the frame is definitely some sort of Westfield .
And the pictures might be a little cockeyed as it is perfect length but can't find a good set of bearings .
I have a workaround  until I find some .
Also came with a really nice Hibbard badge but it just doesn't fit right and is much nicer than  the bike was .
Will make nice trade bait If I ever figure out what the frame is .
Should just find a badge that fits and call er done .

Also thanks to Goldenindian and everyone else who chimed in .


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## bleedingfingers (Jun 22, 2020)

Guess I'm going to call it a Hibbard for now but think I'ii find a Columbia badge for it .
I've finished what I'm going to do to it for now .
As you can see vertical holes don't line up and are larger than what they should be 
Horizontal holes look right.
Nice Badge though.


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## Archie Sturmer (Jun 22, 2020)

The chain ring sprocket which you have selected, 5-ovals, looks a lot like one once used on Montgomery Ward Hawthorne bicycles, at one time.
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1...ith-history-asking-1-250-plus-freight.114682/


Maybe something similar happened to the forks(?).


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## bleedingfingers (Jun 22, 2020)

You are correct on that one I did not get it with the frame and tried  another one but this was the only one that had the proper size bearings so that's what I put on .
I did see a picture of a Miami on here that had the same cranks and chain ring .
It's just those darn forks and maybe they are not original either but they are real nice .
I sent this same picture to a buddy of mine  a few minutes ago and he just sent me back a picture of a red Hawthhorne .


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