# Zenith bicycle value



## liquidvibe (Aug 8, 2012)

Is a woman's Zenith that is in reasonably good shape (like a 6 out of 10) worth $150? Was thinking about picking one up but not sure if it's worth as much as they are asking. Sorry no pics yet. Thanks!


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## bricycle (Aug 8, 2012)

If it's pre 1910 or a full bells and whistle 50's bike maybe... Drop stands are worth $65-80.00


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## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 8, 2012)

Is the same Zenith that was made by CCM for Marshal Wells department store?


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## liquidvibe (Aug 8, 2012)

Yes I think it's a Marshal Wells Zenith. It has a skip-tooth so I'm guessing it's a pre 50s??


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## liquidvibe (Aug 8, 2012)

@bricycle - What do you mean "Drop stands" ??


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## bricycle (Aug 8, 2012)

liquidvibe said:


> @bricycle - What do you mean "Drop stands" ??




most pre- WWII bikes had a "long U" shaped rear stand that would drop down and around the rear wheel to support the bike. (before side "kick" stanks were used).


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## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 8, 2012)

I've never seen a CCM zenith with a skip tooth chain; doesn't mean it didn't happen. If it's Canadian it would have the serial numbers at the top of the seat tube, left hand side. the letter in the number would tell you the year.

The only difference between a regular CCM and the Zenith was a different head badge and chain ring.


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## liquidvibe (Aug 8, 2012)

Got ya, that's what I thought you were saying but didn't want to presume being I'm so new to classic bikes  So are you saying the bike itself would be $65-$80 or just the drop stand would be worth that much? My guess is that this bike isn't worth as much as they are asking but wanted to be sure especially considering the paint, crank and bars are relatively rust free and pretty decent looking. Thanks again for you help, greatly appreciated by this budding collector slash newbie.


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## bricycle (Aug 8, 2012)

liquidvibe said:


> Got ya, that's what I thought you were saying but didn't want to presume being I'm so new to classic bikes  So are you saying the bike itself would be $65-$80 or just the drop stand would be worth that much? My guess is that this bike isn't worth as much as they are asking but wanted to be sure especially considering the paint, crank and bars are relatively rust free and pretty decent looking. Thanks again for you help, greatly appreciated by this budding collector slash newbie.




Just a drop stand... If that bike is anything like a Raleigh...they hold value. (I know zip about inports).
I learn stuff on here every day...except how to stop buying stuff!!!


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## liquidvibe (Aug 8, 2012)

It definitely has a skip-tooth... That caught my eye right away. Not 100% sure about the Marshal Wells, will be taking another look at it this weekend hopefully.. Will work on pics and a serial number.


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## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 8, 2012)

$ 150 is not out of line depending on the paint.

If it has a skiptooth, it's old, If it has a loop frame, which means the upper bar is a loop not strait, then it's a nice old bike.


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## RMS37 (Aug 8, 2012)

If this bike is in the midwest chances are better that it is an American built Marshall Wells/Zenith bike than that it is a Canadian built one. The American versions were commonly built by H.P. Snyder and were similar to the Harris/Rollfast line. That would go a long way toward explaining the features of the bike noted so far. Unfortunately it is virtually impossible to value the bike without a photograph.


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## liquidvibe (Aug 8, 2012)

If I recall correctly the upper and lower bar aren't straight BUT I'm pretty sure both bars curved the exact same which seems to be different from the loop frames that I'm seeing when I google the term "loop bike frame"... A pic would solve so much for me right now! Thanks again for your help.


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## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 8, 2012)

yep needs a picture, If you google Marshal wells Zenith it looks like the Canadian version was made by CCM and in the US they used CWC frames.


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## RMS37 (Aug 8, 2012)

Lawrence Ruskin said:


> yep needs a picture, If you google Marshal wells Zenith it looks like the Canadian version was made by CCM and in the US they used CWC frames.



U.S. Bikes were typically H.P. Snyder, not CWC sourced.


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## liquidvibe (Aug 8, 2012)

It totally looked like this Hawthorne except it had a skiptooth, no rear rack and didn't have the crhome bars that go from the headset to the front axle. The condition overall and of the paint was pretty similar to this one as well. 

So is this considered a loop frame then?? This frame looks just like the one I've been talking about.


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## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 8, 2012)

Nice bike, I would buy that. As for me saying Marshal Wells  asked CWC to do their frames, I was just repeating what I read a moment before: doesn't mean the guy was right.

This is a CCM loop frame, the bottom tube is strait.


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## liquidvibe (Aug 8, 2012)

Lawrence Ruskin said:


> This is a CCM loop frame, the bottom tube is strait.View attachment 60448




Ahh yeah the frame pic you posted is what I was seeing when I googled looped frame thus I didn't think the frame I was talking about was in fact a loop. So what is the name for the Hawthorne frame in my previous post called? What does CCM mean again?? Thanks!


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## RMS37 (Aug 8, 2012)

Lawrence Ruskin said:


> doesn't mean the guy was right.




Yeah, it means the guy is wrong.


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## RMS37 (Aug 8, 2012)

The maroon bike in the picture is actually a Cleveland Welding built bike from the early postwar years. A U.S. built H.P. Snyder built girls bike from just before or after WW2 will indeed look quite similar to that bike though. 

You say the paint is about equal to this picture but note it is about a 6 out of 10 and from the photo I might grade the maroon bike a bit higher than that. The bike you are looking at is probably worth the $150 being asked for it, if not it obviously cannot be worth all that much less. As noted the things that might considerably add to the value, at least in parts, like drop stands, special sheet metal, headlights and accessories are very hard or impossible to judged from a just a verbal description.


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## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 8, 2012)

It stands for Canadian Cycle and Motor.It was a Canadian company formed to stop the American bicycle companies from flooding the Canadian market and it worked. CCM just put out solid men', woman's, kid's, and work bikes, in the British style. They even made a car for a while.
They never really got fancy like American bikes did, but they lasted a long time.
CCM went under in the Reagan recession in the 80s along with other long time Canadian companies.
The name CCM was sold and bikes under that name were produced in China for a while.
One of my ambitions is to get a picture of every CCM model ever made and post it on the net.


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## RMS37 (Aug 8, 2012)

liquidvibe said:


> So what is the name for the Hawthorne frame in my previous post called?




They were typically just called girl's bikes or girl's frames here in the U.S in the day. Head badges labeled most bikes for the company that made them and/or the chain that sold them. Most Head badges also carried a brand name chosen by the manufacturer, distributor or retailer. Large companies occasionally named their top of the line models in their consumer literature probably as an enticement to move up to a "Zep" for instance over a less expensive "standard model girl's bicycle" but  most bikes did not have an exotic model name beyond the labeling found on the bike itself.


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## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 8, 2012)

A bit more on the loop frame, it was the original woman's style. When those bikes were developed in the 1890s all the room that design has between the head tube and the seat tube, was to accommodate the very full dresses of the Victorian era.


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## liquidvibe (Aug 9, 2012)

Thanks for all the information guys, I really appreciate it! Hoping to be a real collector/restorer and/or bring-back-to-life/seller some day and all this historical information is really interesting and helpful  

But how about no more drama on this thread...


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## RMS37 (Aug 9, 2012)

liquidvibe said:


> But how about no more drama on this thread...




? What drama are you referring to?


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