# 1947? Dx



## EXP Jawa (Feb 17, 2012)

I bought this last summer for cheap, but its pretty rough.  It's a 26" DX, but I'm not sure about a specific model.  The chain ring & crank has apparently been swapped for a big 52t set, so the crank stamping isn't helpful in dating this thing.  Obviously, everything has been sprayed with flat black, but the original paint was red.  The serial under the BB is shown below.  My best guess has been that it's a '47, since the serial doesn't match the known '48 and up records, but it has the built-in kickstand and forward dropouts.  The kickstand isn't tapered, so it isn't a '46 (so I've been told).  


















It had truss rods once, the bracket is still on the steer tube, and there are dimples for them in the fender.  I'm not convinced that the rear fender is OEM.  I think the front wheel is original (Schwinn script on the hub) but the rear may not be.  Has a Bendix hub.  Both rims are rusted through, though.  If the sprocket and rear wheel have been changed, it could be that someone wanted to ditch a skiptooth chain at some point...  Thoughts?


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## snickle (Feb 17, 2012)

August 8, 1951 is what I came up with based on the serial. Not to mention, drop center wheels were used until 1948 I believe that is when they started using S2 rims, if those are indeed S2's


08/08 ------------------ H286398 --------------- H298404 


http://www.angelfire.com/rant/allday101/SchwinnCodes2.html

Well upon further review, I see there is only 5 numbers there for the serial.. I am curious now as well. It looks like I am wrong.

1948 was the last year for 5 numbers, then it looks like they moved to 6 digits on Sept 26? 1948


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## EXP Jawa (Feb 17, 2012)

Thanks for looking.  The 5-digit serial is why I'm stumped as well.  That was why I thought it didn't match the post-fire records, so I'm assuming that was built prior to that.  Is there anything else I can show that would be helpful?


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## snickle (Feb 17, 2012)

Not sure, its kind of hard to tell without being all original. Here is the thread that has some good information from REC regarding a bike I have with a similar issue. He may also want to add your number to his database.

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?23209-My-latest-addition-what-year


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## Terry66 (Feb 17, 2012)

I think the forward facing drops, location of the serial number pretty much mean it is a 46 or 47. I have a BXXXXX number, which I believe is a '46. My guess is that yours is a '47


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## REC (Feb 17, 2012)

I've added your bike to the list, and placed it based on sequence as a '47. I have a "G" numbered documented one slightly ahead of it.

REC


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## EXP Jawa (Feb 17, 2012)

REC said:


> I've added your bike to the list, and placed it based on sequence as a '47. I have a "G" numbered documented one slightly ahead of it.
> 
> REC




Alright, great.  That's about as close to a confirmation of my suspicion as I can expect.


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## Eric Bidinger (Feb 17, 2012)

*How about 1945????*

Ok just a few thoughts...
According to the charts on angelfire Schwinn made over 98,000 bikes in 1945.
The charts say that the last serial numbers from 1941 to early 1942 could be A thru I.
What if it was A thru H?
As soon as WWII was over Schwinn may have started up right where they left off...
Letter H. 
Early 1946 may have I and J, wouldn't 1945 be H? Or even G?
Schwinn followed a pattern. You can interpolate a little forward and backward.
Your bike could be a 1945.
My two cents

Eric


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## REC (Feb 18, 2012)

Eric Bidinger said:


> Ok just a few thoughts...
> According to the charts on angelfire Schwinn made over 98,000 bikes in 1945.
> The charts say that the last serial numbers from 1941 to early 1942 could be A thru I.
> What if it was A thru H?
> ...




Points taken.
The angelfire charts are only _one_ source of information, and a lot of what I have done for the last few years is based on the production numbers found there for the years that are missing in the sequential area, or known and posted lists. Those lists were transcribed into where they are from written lists from years ago and are a wonderful tool. Looking at them raises some intersting points when you're talking "patterns"  regarding serial numbers. You'll note that there are sequential numbers from one day to the next that match, but the letter code is not the same as the day before. The number sequence also fails to carry from one day to the next on occasion too. I (being a Cycle Truck nut, and which is how I got started into this "project") noted that there are supposedly codes for CT production numbers that I have so far failed to see on the roughly 20 or so Cycle Trucks I own or have owned over a period of time.

There are several other references found that both confirm and dispute those charts, and it does become an interesting question. 

Post-war production started (according to quite a few reference sources) with serial numbers starting with an A followed by five digits. Yes, there were some mis-stamped frames that came up in the early post war with "I" and "J" serial numbers. The key word in those references is _some_. No one knows how many, but using that as a guide you start look at other things on the bike itself. I have not found any other references to letters in early post-war production indicative of other stampings than the I & J being thrown in out of sequence. 

I have a running list that goes from '39 through the 8/18/48 time frame that I have been working on for several years now, and a lot of the stuff in the list is documented through either paper, owner history, or through using parts on the bike to validate the year. Does that make this an absolute? No. It is only the result of a lot of time spent trying to figure this out.

What is the most odd part of this? Every once in a while, someone will come up with a documented bike that helps to make the time spent worthwhile.

In looking at this over the last 5 to 6 years and adding to this list constantly, there are things that start to make sense, and the largest of those is that yes, there was a pattern used. In the post war stuff, I am seeing it fall more and more into place. The pre-war is still largely uncharted territory to me, as I have yet to see a lot of similar patterns there. I do know that 1933 had one less number than 1934, 5 & 6 respectively, and I believe '35 serials started with a letter and 5 digits - but this is the only knowledge of that area, and it is based on thetwo B10s that are sitting about 6 feet behind me right now. Wartime producton shows a bit of a pattern as well. 

Reading into this, there is a LOT of published data out there in books, articles and on the internet. What I've also found is that a lot of this data conflicts with each other. What I am using as a base comes from the places I feel are more consistent in data, and seem to back each other as opposed to not. I also have taken a "common sense" approach to it using the production numbers referred to above, and the idea that post war production started over with A.  

I noted in another forum yesterday that this is not an exact science, as there is little to back it. 
What I have to back what I've done is a pile of serial numbers in a list, that some of which have been documented in different ways, and others inserted into what appears to be the appropriate place.

Your mileage may vary!
REC


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## EXP Jawa (Feb 18, 2012)

REC, the work that you've done thus far - this just deals with the "normal" production Schwinns?  Or have you looked into sequencing of the Paramount, Superior, etc models as well?  Not to derail the topic, but I've got a postwar tandem (in this thread http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?24118-Help-identifying-a-Schwinn-tandem) that seems to be an early Paramount, with the serial X003.  Is that something that your research could shed light on?


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## REC (Feb 18, 2012)

It started with Cycle-Trucks and went into balloners. I have NO clue on the lighter end of the spectrum! I have a buddy here who is into the lightweight stuff and we have compared some of his bikes to the list - he has several - and they were able to be approximated. Oddly, one of them actually proved the number by the hub date. Could work. 

Paramounts had their own system I thought. There are a lot of Paramount numbers in a site I have marked: 
http://www.theheadbadge.com/
Maybe that would be abetter help. I have a '74 P14 Paramount track bike that eventually I'll get around to sending the info to the site on. 
REC

PS: Just looked through that post again. That has some really nice welds on it. Maybe it was a factory team bike? Sure is nice!


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## EXP Jawa (Feb 18, 2012)

Thanks for the info.  That bike should be, I think, fillet brazed rather than welded.  The Paramount singles were always lugged, but the Superiors and New Worlds were fillet brazed, as were the Paramount tandems.


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## Eric Bidinger (Feb 18, 2012)

*Here is what I have....*

I have four DXs and one B6.

Prewar DX blk/wht Pullman head badge. Ser is B25048 under the BB.
Dogleg crank skip tooth sprocket drop stand.
Straight down tube make this a 1939. First year of the DX model.

Post war

Red/tan DX. Packard head badge. Ser is H12380 under the BB.
Dogleg crank skip tooth sprocket tapered kick stand.
Cycle lock AN 160. I believe this is a 1945 or 1946.

Red/cream DX. BFGoodrich head badge. See is B50919 under the BB.
Non-dogleg crank skip tooth sprocket straight kick stand.
I believe this is a 1947 or 1948.

Green/cream DX. Schwinn plane train and auto head badge. Ser is E35630 on left dropout.
I know this is a 1952.

The B 6 is blue/cream red pinstripe. Ser is B49464 under the BB.
52 tooth sprocket straight kick stand.
I think this bike is a 1947 or 1948.

Let me know if this helps and where you think my bikes fit into your records.
Eric


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## REC (Feb 18, 2012)

Eric Bidinger said:


> I have four DXs and one B6.
> 
> Post war = Red/tan DX. Packard head badge. Ser is H12380 under the BB.
> Dogleg crank skip tooth sprocket tapered kick stand.
> ...




I snipped the 39 and the 52 out, as they are not involved. (easily identified!)
To begin - you may not agree with what I am going to say here. Looking at the serial numbers and your descriptions (I am a visual kind of guy - I like pictures) - this is a blind eye view.

DX #1 - You note above - H12380 - falls sequentially into 47. Description falls into 46. 

DX #2 - B50919 - This is one that I have a similar mate to, complete with BFG badging when bought as well. Mine is listed as a 46 due to sequence. BFG badged bikes were sometimes a little different in parts (kickstands perhaps, I had another one that had a bolt on!) than the Schwinn badged ones - not always, sometimes. I believe (and I've read) also that a lot of the tapered kickstands were replaced due to the ease with which they bent. Put someone my size on one leaning on the stand and it took a new shape. Still - looking at the sequential number, it sits in 46.

B-6  -  B49464 - This one ALSO fits sequentially into 46. In fact, it precedes my B-6 by approximately 8000 frames. Again you mention a straight stand - mine is tapered, but with a caveat - it was bent when I got it. I have straightened it as it wasn't bent too badly. 

To put this into perspective - yes, there were odd letters thrown in here and there - what about the post war "X" numbers? I have several on the list. (There were also pre-war X numbers!) They have not begun to fall into place yet, and both of the most recent ones had no other indication of date, just a serial number as they were frames (and both were used) that were bare. Could they have been warrantied frames? I don't know, I wasn't there. Looking at the production numbers with A starting into post war production, and 98,175 units, A should be indicative of 45. 46 shows 302,071, so that would cover the rest of A, then B, C, & D. 47 shows 486,793, and following a pattern here, that would cover E, F, G, H, & some of I. 1948 had 602,408, and with approximately 200,000 made after the fire (oddly enough starting off again with "D" serial numbers), the pre-fire stuff would have covered the remainder of I, J, K, and perhaps an L or two. (The highest letter code I have listed presently is K, I thought for some reason I a
had an L listed, but don't see it.) It is noted that there were "S10" frames that carried their own sequence too, and perhaps some other oddball stuff - say tandems? So maybe K is the last. 

Now - using the mis-cues - there could have been some oddball letters thrown in at any point. They could have started each year with A, who knows? BUT - looking at the numbers as increments of 100,000 per letter code, this would lead to this direction of thought. 

Now - As I said to begin with, I am no expert, nor do I play one on TV, But I had developed an interest in this due to my passion for Cycle-Trucks and having some that I could not get a read on the production year. I use about six different sources for information as it seems that there is some congruency between them in specific areas - though none of them agree fully with each other.  What I do know is what I posted earlier today, and that is that after the years I've spent compiling this list, some of this is starting to fall into place and look pretty much as (I think) it should. Odd stuff still comes along and adjustments get made, but the big picture has held fairly true for the last couple of years. Eventually, I hope to see the records that are known to exist from a shop's sales register that was in business for MANY years - both before and after the fire at the factory. That will clear a LOT of speculation and may well prove that I have wasted an immense amount of time for no reason. It may also prove that I may have been on to something.

Your mileage may vary, and this was probably a $0.02 worth. 
I would love to see some photos of your bikes, particularly the BFG DX, but the others as well. Have you posted them here at any point?

Thanks for reading this long winded post.
REC


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