# 1903? IVEL  , G.W. Shroyer & Co. , Dayton OH



## Kurt S. (Aug 23, 2019)

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/ivel-bicycle.84273/ 
The above is a terrific post started by "Flat Tire" a while back and wondering who made these bicycles.  

Yesterday, while looking over some estate sales I came across this out of focus image ( with no description ) of what appeared as a cushion frame bicycle?  Only an hour or so away & nothing better to do, I took a run over to see this bicycle for myself.  Happy I did, the sellers took a fair-good offer from me.  

Well this may prove to be the proverbial missing link, in our understandings of who actually made these Ivel bicycles for G.W. Shroyer & Co..  ( It took me a while to get a grip on the fact that this was not an English make of bicycle, kept thinking why the heck not.)    

So this photo is what they had posted.....


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## Kurt S. (Aug 23, 2019)

Now back at my camp, this is what a IVEL , Cushion Frame-Track Racer looks like.  Well, it does need some minor cleaning & some TLC.


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## Jesse McCauley (Aug 23, 2019)

Lovely bike, (that rubber, that hussey setup, dem wheels...phewwwww) what makes you say track racer though? 
Im learning every day but I would be surprised to see a cushion on a track bike, seems it would only serve loss of momentum on a smooth flat surface? 


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## Kurt S. (Aug 23, 2019)

So, who made this bicycle?  

This is a Sager Double Flexible (Cushion) Frame, prior to Pierce & Hygenic taking over the Sager Gear Co. business interests during the late part of 1903. 

I have only found in adverts that the Ivel began offering the cushion frame in 1903.


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## Kurt S. (Aug 23, 2019)

Jesse McCauley said:


> Lovely bike, what makes you say track racer though?
> Im learning every day but I would be surprised to see a cushion on a track bike, seems it would only serve loss of momentum on a smooth flat surface?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



This is how they advertised it and what I understand so far is they offed the Track Racer which was a lightweight  (for the  time of course) , I weighed it in at just a fuzz under 28 lbs


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## Jesse McCauley (Aug 23, 2019)

Killerbike Kurt, looks like the Ivel track racer model is rigid vs. cushioned but either way, amazing find for a morning of estate sale perusing. Many congratulations!!


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## Kurt S. (Aug 23, 2019)

Yes, I think your correct. I was looking at another advertisement for the Ivel during 1903, they offered the Ivel motorcycle & four bicycles.  A ladies model, a shaft drive, a track racer and a cushion frame.  The advertisement print is terrible quality & can barely make out the bicycles. 

None the less, it answered numerous questions.

I appreciate your observations Jessie, thanks.


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## Kurt S. (Aug 23, 2019)

I think that this a Persons saddle & the pinstriped wood rims are Fairbanks





printed Oct 10, 1903


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## Kurt S. (Aug 23, 2019)

The pedals I'm trying to identify, they are marked on the round cap.  However, both have minor scuffs over the top word.  There appear as two lines of text in bold stamping.

The last two letters of the first line are .....AL
the second line is D.S.M.C.


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## ZE52414 (Aug 23, 2019)

Pedals kinda look like IDEAL. Which I believe are the same pedals used on HD bicycles.


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## Kurt S. (Aug 23, 2019)

ZE52414 said:


> Pedals kinda look like IDEAL. Which I believe are the same pedals used on HD bicycles.





Did they have those bold letters stamped on theirs?  I've noticed a couple of mfg's refer to their pedals with some dissimilar letters, but just in advertising, haven't seen it like this on the cup of a pedal though.  Not that I've studied pedals of this era.


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## Jesse McCauley (Aug 23, 2019)

Kurt S. said:


> Did they have those bold letters stamped on theirs? I've noticed a couple of mfg's refer to their pedals with some dissimilar letters, but just in advertising, haven't seen it like this on the cup of a pedal though. Not that I've studied pedals of this era.




The pedals are likely a teens era replacement part, rat traps would be customary I believe 


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## Kurt S. (Aug 23, 2019)

Here are a couple of items that helped with the frame identification, the stamping on the cushion shock have been the key to the id and narrowing down the year (s).

However, I have to give the real credit to the folks here at the CABE, the prior posts on this subject helped so much, it would have taken much longer to see & grasp and understanding of it without this forum.  So huge thanks again!


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## Kurt S. (Aug 23, 2019)

Jesse McCauley said:


> The pedals are likely a teens era replacement part, rat traps would be customary I believe
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



pedals do seem odd for the style of this bicycle & from what I can glean from the ads, I have to agree.


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## Kurt S. (Aug 23, 2019)

Kurt S. said:


> The pedals I'm trying to identify, they are marked on the round cap.  However, both have minor scuffs over the top word.  There appear as two lines of text in bold stamping.
> 
> The last two letters of the first line are .....AL
> the second line is D.S.M.C.





Okay, I went back to the bicycle and cleaned a bit more.
The last two letters of the first line are .....AL
AND
the 2nd line reads D.S.M. Co.

that had me going......


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## Kurt S. (Aug 23, 2019)

How about;  Davis Sewing Machine Company


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## bentwoody66 (Aug 23, 2019)

Bet I could make those tires hold air!!!!!

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## Kurt S. (Aug 23, 2019)

Always listening, how would you soften them up and get them holding air?  

It's a good subject.


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## bentwoody66 (Aug 23, 2019)

Add a little air, just enough to take inflate so you can start working the flat spots out. There will be sections that will be stuck together on the inside, eventually they should become un-stuck. Add some Slime tire sealant and slowly add air to take shape, it's best to have the tire on an old rim so it takes it's natural shape back. This worked for me on my set of Kokomo Everlaster tires from the 20's. They had been hanging on a hook in a garage for years and they will hold low pressure for 2 to 3 months now. You will probably have to replace the valve cores also.

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## Kurt S. (Aug 24, 2019)

ZE52414 said:


> Pedals kinda look like IDEAL. Which I believe are the same pedals used on HD bicycles.




That is correct, took them off , cleaned up the other pedal a bit more as well, IDxxx & xxxAL  on the opposite pedal , just can't read th "E' on either one.  The rubber is also 3 3/4" long,  for what Harley would have used on theirs.


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## Kurt S. (Aug 25, 2019)

Right now i have a pressing question and that is of the serial number being located on the seat post tube. Both mine and the one Flat Tire posted are numerically in the 10's of thousands range.

I've looked at the production numbers published for the first few years and Shroyer didn't sell that many bicycles all together during the beginning years I've looked up.  That kind of bugged me and have speculated that number was stamped by Sager Gear Co. or factory in-which produced my frame. So I went back to mine and flipped it over and there appears to be a second serial number stamped on the bottom of the crank hanger, and find it more consistent with a make/brand that had only sold 3-4000 bicycles, in the first few years.

Anyone know of another Ivel owner that can be reached to verify if theirs are stamped like this as well?


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## JulieB (Aug 28, 2019)

In the UK we have a book called The Ivel Story by John Moffitt. John owned an Ivel tractor and he decided to write the Ivel history from push bike to tractor, including motor cycles and motor cars.
 Below are a few pages I have copied to give you an idea of what is in the book.  I will tell you that the book is mainly write about the tractor, but it dose contain a lot of information about cycles and Dan Albone, the inventor of the Ivel brand. 
 I believe the book is still available from Japonica Press in the UK or possibly on ebay.


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## Kurt S. (Aug 28, 2019)

JulieB said:


> In the UK we have a book called The Ivel Story by John Moffitt. John owned an Ivel tractor and he decided to write the Ivel history from push bike to tractor, including motor cycles and motor cars.
> Below are a few pages I have copied to give you an idea of what is in the book.  I will tell you that the book is mainly write about the tractor, but it dose contain a lot of information about cycles and Dan Albone, the inventor of the Ivel brand.
> I believe the book is still available from Japonica Press in the UK or possibly on ebay.
> 
> ...



The Ivel you posted of is an English bicycle not associated to the Ivel bicycles of G.W. Shroyer of Ohio.


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## JulieB (Aug 28, 2019)

Sorry my mistake.


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## Kurt S. (Aug 28, 2019)

JulieB said:


> Sorry my mistake.
> 
> 
> No problem,  took me a bit to get my head wrapped around the fact that it wasn't related.  It's an important piece of the puzzle to put into place, and most likely good you brought it up.  I've started adding a preemptive disclaimer to the English make to all my most recent inquiries, I guess I missed this one.


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## Kurt S. (Aug 31, 2019)

Kurt S. said:


> Right now i have a pressing question and that is of the serial number being located on the seat post tube. Both mine and the one Flat Tire posted are numerically in the 10's of thousands range.
> 
> I've looked at the production numbers published for the first few years and Shroyer didn't sell that many bicycles all together during the beginning years I've looked up.  That kind of bugged me and have speculated that number was stamped by Sager Gear Co. or factory in-which produced my frame. So I went back to mine and flipped it over and there appears to be a second serial number stamped on the bottom of the crank hanger, and find it more consistent with a make/brand that had only sold 3-4000 bicycles, in the first few years.
> 
> Anyone know of another Ivel owner that can be reached to verify if theirs are stamped like this as well?





Found this advertisement from G.W. Shroyer's Grand Opening in 1902, I hadn't seen this before & is a much better image than that of which I have seen for the IVEL Spring Frame bicycles.  

My most recent effort to create a comparative timeline between G.W. Shroyer and that of the Sager Gear Co. is going well and does indicate that they would have been able to offer the Spring Frame IVEL as a patent pending frame during 1902 & 1903.  Although still lacking any publications from either company leaves some room for further speculation especially in later years as the Ivel continued to be offered for many more years.  What I've not found so far is any indication of 1904 models of the Ivel Spring frame bicycle, but the research continues.


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## Kurt S. (Aug 31, 2019)

Surmising from a timeline I’ve been working on; I have found a number of key players involved.   The Sager Gear Co., & of course G.W. Shroyer are the main focus of my brief study, but I have to include others.  There appears to be a familiar relationship between a J. Harry Sager associated with a Regas Spring Frame bicycle & a Harry F. Sager associated to the Sager Gear Co. maker of the Double Flexible Spring frame.  All of whom offered motorcycles in addition to their bicycle lines.   

 Interestingly both bicycles (Ivel & Regas) were made at the Sager Gear Co. facilities, however ownership of each appear to be separate.  The Sager Gear Company, along with the line of saddles & gears for chainless bicycles (such as the Waltham - Orient), made a number of bicycle frames and motorcycle frames according to what I have been finding.  

The patent application date for Harry F. Sager {the Sager Gear Co.}, Patent# 714,571 having been filed in April of 1902, coincides with the Grand Opening of the G.W. Shroyer Co. & the introduction of their 1902 {Double Flexible} Spring Frame Bicycle.

Going forward to 1903, George N. Pierce, owner of the Hygenic Wheel Co. brought a law suit against the Sager Gear Co. & the Double Flexible Frame.  I did not find that it materialized in a judgement against the Sager Gear Co.

However, the Sager Gear Company whose history goes back to 1891 from a partnership of James Harry Sager & Willard G. Rich, known as Rich & Company, in 1895 became Sager Mfg. Co. and in 1899 was renamed the Sager Gear Company & about September of 1903 closed & liquidated it business operations.

 In September of 1903, George N. Pierce & the Hygenic Wheel Co. acquired the patent and property of the Sager Gear Co.       

G.W. Shroyer continued his business operations as a supplier of Ivel bicycles and motorcycles for many years after this; however no evidence has yet surfaced of another spring frame being offered after 1903.


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## Kurt S. (Aug 31, 2019)

For comparison &  reference to the two other spring/cushion frames indicated by the events in the timeline, The Regas with twin spring shocks  being that shown in the patent to the left and the Hygenic Wheel co. with a mono shock and a triple flat spring steel leaf;


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## olderthandirt (Nov 6, 2019)

soooo cooooool you gooooot tttttloooove it !


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## Kurt S. (Nov 7, 2019)

olderthandirt said:


> soooo cooooool you gooooot tttttloooove it !




Oh ya, nice look'in bicycle!

Now, I would love to get a piece of that cheese.


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