# Odd lug tubing connections- anyone seen this before?



## mongeese (Feb 27, 2017)




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## Joe Buffardi (Feb 27, 2017)

Miami


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## Joe Buffardi (Feb 27, 2017)

Hercules construction. Cool!


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## Goldenindian (Feb 27, 2017)

Yes yes. Sweet find. Congrats. Miami


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## Goldenindian (Feb 27, 2017)

Does it have chain adjusters?


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## mongeese (Feb 27, 2017)




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## mongeese (Feb 27, 2017)

Hoofhearted has been called upon to diagnose. I have been informed he is the informer on such things.


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## redline1968 (Feb 27, 2017)

Lugging on the lower hangar doesn't look like Miami nor does the second bar fitted to the seat tube. IMO. I don't think Miami or possibly some early repairs.


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## mongeese (Mar 8, 2017)

redline1968 fast to past " judgement "without offering any alternative.  Seems to be a common issue these days. Hoofhearted has yet to respond. Bump thread----


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## mongeese (Mar 8, 2017)

We must be weary of fake bike news as it has plagued us before.


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## redline1968 (Mar 8, 2017)

Ok........here are a few pics of some Miami bikes.... two  merkels,raycycle, and Hudson. You know.......you actually can check out the Miami blogs and can learn more and see what the Miami bikes look like in there construction.... :0!!!!


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## mongeese (Mar 8, 2017)

That sets record straight. I'm convinced - wiretapped factory recordings from the teens says they never did anything different than the pictures you show.


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## mongeese (Mar 8, 2017)

Can you show the rear drop out chain adjusters of those bicycles please ?


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## Goldenindian (Mar 8, 2017)

Mongeese, can you show the fork crown of your fork. That may help to compare to other machines.


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## redline1968 (Mar 8, 2017)

3 out of 4 of mine don't have them.. but that doesn't necessarily mean that they did not have them. I added some other pics of the construction of the bikes.


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## mongeese (Mar 9, 2017)

Here is the fork crown.


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## barracuda (Mar 9, 2017)

mongeese said:


> View attachment 433441 View attachment 433440 Here is the fork crown.




That appears to be a typical Miami fork. Hard to say why the bottom bracket lugs look that way, or what the stepping is on the other lugs. It could be a repair, but then Miami did some weird, one-off stuff, too. Let's see a picture of the whole bike all at once, please.


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## mongeese (Mar 9, 2017)




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## fordmike65 (Mar 9, 2017)

mongeese said:


>




Oh Boy!


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## barracuda (Mar 9, 2017)

ooo000OOO000ooo


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## redline1968 (Mar 9, 2017)

I gess so


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## Joe Buffardi (Mar 9, 2017)

Miami front chainwheel,  pinched seat stays with Miami fender mount braces, Hercules construction. There has been a repair at the lower tube to seat tube junction, forks look Miami to me.


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## mongeese (Mar 9, 2017)

How sure are you of the repair in bottom bracket area? What should I look for and post pictures of? Sure doesn't look repaired to me. Maybe you have seen other bikes repaired in this manner?


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## Joe Buffardi (Mar 9, 2017)

The lower top tube to seat tube junction looks brazed and the fork looks brazed also at right leg.


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## Joe Buffardi (Mar 9, 2017)

Not sure if the brace between the top bars is original. I have seen braces on arch bar Miami frames but not so much on parallel bar type frames. Im no expert but I love to research and a lot of Cabe members here have done thei research and it is easily obtained in Miami topic threads. Search hard and dont leave any leaf unturned. Im still sticking with Miami built but not a Merkel, no offset bottom bracket.


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## Joe Buffardi (Mar 9, 2017)

But again we are still learning about these bikes.


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## mongeese (Mar 9, 2017)

The bar between the two top bars is exactly parrallel to the seat tube. Precise geometry if added after .


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## hoofhearted (Mar 9, 2017)

*
Am leaning toward Miami-Built on this one.

Still have reservations about the undertank bar ...

It appears to be in place via fillet-brazing rather
than the usual fore-end trumpet-join AND the
''sleeve over the seat mast'' join at the aft-end
of that undertank bar.

One thing is certain ... very few of us have seen
catalogs from the company from 1918 .. 1919 ..
and 1920 .... hoo nose what was being fabricated
during that time ... or by what methods ?

The machine looks more Miami than from any other
manufacturer of the day.   My opinion.

....... patric*


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## hoofhearted (Mar 9, 2017)

*
Also ... here is a girl's Air Pilot .. a Westfield-Built ...
that started out as a boy's model - at the factory.

All of a sudden this machine is factory-converted
to a girl's model.  It sports factory gender-conversion.

I would know -- I used to own it.

That sleeve-lug on the seatmast is a residual reminder 
of where the undertank bar used to attach .. when this
machine was a motorbike.

Now .. thinking on this conversion ... is it possible that
Miami also did a conversion ? 

Is it possible that Miami added that undertank bar AND
vertical-support between the top bars AFTER the machine
was built ... perhaps before paint ?



 




 




 




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