# Correct is Correct... or is it? Catalogs vs...



## bike (Dec 14, 2017)

Most people go by catalogs and that is fine. Over the years I have found bikes that are original with different parts from the catalog- most would say WRONG..only to find them in sale flyer or regional ad etc.

I think period pics at the factory or dealer are the best, but here is a pic of a bike that seems unmolested and pretty fresh from new with a "wrong" Part

What say you?

(From ebay)


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## mike j (Dec 14, 2017)

Doesn't bother me, I'll take it.


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## cyclingday (Dec 14, 2017)

It looks to be a Louisville Cycle Supply bike, so I would say, some kind of a price point deal.
I'll bet 99% of us would change that out today.


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## Freqman1 (Dec 14, 2017)

On the other side of the coin its funny how many bikes get changed to catalog incorrect due to preferences to wit the Shelby Arrows and No-Noses all gussied up (including mine). V/r Shawn


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## cyclingday (Dec 14, 2017)

There's a period advertisement from Gillette that shows an Aerocycle with a Toolbox Troxel saddle on it.
I'm sure they used a new bike for the photo shoot, so, some Aerocycle were equipped with Toolbox Troxels.
So don't change it out, if you find one that way. Lol!
Pretty Cool!


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## vincev (Dec 14, 2017)

Can you post the catalog picture ??


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## mickeyc (Dec 14, 2017)

Care to enlighten this ignoramus as to what is "wrong" with the pictured bike?  Not everyone knows all the finer details of every bike.

Mike


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## Freqman1 (Dec 14, 2017)

mickeyc said:


> Care to enlighten this ignoramus as to what is "wrong" with the pictured bike?  Not everyone knows all the finer details of every bike.
> 
> Mike



The guard


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## fordmike65 (Dec 14, 2017)

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/what-the-bicycle-anomalies-lets-see-them.109123/


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## Balloontyre (Dec 14, 2017)

Baseball card mentality syndrome is the demise of the bicycle collecting world


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## bike (Dec 14, 2017)

mickeyc said:


> Care to enlighten this ignoramus as to what is "wrong" with the pictured bike?  Not everyone knows all the finer details of every bike.
> 
> Mike



I was trying to be coy


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## bike (Dec 14, 2017)

vincev said:


> Can you post the catalog picture ??



I sold all my catalogs, perhaps someone else could post


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## bike (Dec 14, 2017)

Freqman1 said:


> On the other side of the coin its funny how many bikes get changed to catalog incorrect due to preferences to wit the Shelby Arrows and No-Noses all gussied up (including mine). V/r Shawn




If it is ORIGINAL I would probably keep it but if resto go for it! DON'T FORGET these bikes could be custom ordered ORDER FORMS- remember the BUILD SHEETS:


https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/p...der-forms-so-we-can-know-what-is-right.64694/


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## partsguy (Dec 14, 2017)

Here is my take...

In 18__ or 19__ these were not collector's items. They were transportation. Like cars, motorcycles, etc. Get the things built, down the line, and sold. While the catalogs were ideal for marketers, there were some variances. I have owned and still own such oddballs. Some bikes had paint codes, or equipment, that was rarely advertised and you had to ask the bike shop to put in the request.

Some bikes also lacked certain features, depending on who they were built for. Huffman bicycles sold at regional stores, such as Belknap Bluegrass, Firestone, or independent stores (AMC or other buy-in brands) had chrome deleted, lesser hubs, or less-plush seats to meet the price point while the quality of the chassis stayed the same. Other manufacturers did this as well.

Things such as headlights, speedometers, racks, and tanks also got changed at the factory. If there was ever a mid-year model change or a parts shortage, you would see a bike with different parts from the factory, as long as they fit.


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## Dan the bike man (Dec 14, 2017)

I don't care on my bikes if it's "correct" or not. All I care about is being able to ride the bike. However change a bolt on a Schwinn and watch the purists freak out!!!


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## cyclingday (Dec 14, 2017)

I kind of enjoy, making the bike my own with period correct accessories.
A Wald #5 stem can dress up any bike, but all the guys will exclaim that you're an idiot for putting a Shelby stem on a Schwinn bike.
I got a kick out of seeing the original ad for Stewart Warners short coupled speedo kit, because everybody said that it was a Shelby thing, but the ad shows it on a lightweight Schwinn Superior with a Cadet speedo head.
Aftermarket meant the sky's the limit.
If you liked the way it made your bike different, go for it!


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## cds2323 (Dec 14, 2017)

cyclingday said:


> It looks to be a Louisville Cycle Supply bike, so I would say, some kind of a price point deal.
> I'll bet 99% of us would change that out today.




I agree that most would change that out today.  I have an old Xerox copy of a 36-37 Louisville Cycle Supply catalog that shows a Motorbike with the Rowdy horn, not the Gangway. I'm sure most would change that out today as well.


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## redline1968 (Dec 14, 2017)

I don’t rely on 100 yr old written info or catalog drawings.   That’s why I protest and detest them. I’m sure lots of things got changed and rearrange long before it hits the press and there was no way to find out if the info is real, second hand or made up.  A dealer was there to help the buyer and can change something to please.


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## bentwoody66 (Dec 14, 2017)

This topic always makes me giggle. I think period photos are the best guidelines as to the originality of our bikes. There really should be judged classes at bike shows for period "correct" transportation, after all that is what these bikes were. Mismatched tires, missing parts, "incorrect" parts as to catalog drawings.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## tech549 (Dec 14, 2017)

I could never understand this debate on bicycles,as to what is right or wrong,who decided to put what accessories on the bike?they advertise many different options in these catalogs,and does anyone know if you could order a specific bike with your preference of options?or it came this way and you had to change out the accessories they way you wanted.and if that was the case why would it be wrong,because it didn't match the catalog picture?if anybody has any input on this would like to hear your opinion.


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## Freqman1 (Dec 14, 2017)

I believe if you are restoring a bike then you need to do as much research as possible. The period ads, catalogs,and photos offer the best guides. Original, untouched bikes offer the best evidence of what was actually produced. I think using the "they just used whatever they had so it could have come like this" is over used and a lot of times used to rationalize something done incorrectly. Jus my 2c. V/r Shawn


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## partsguy (Dec 16, 2017)

Freqman1 said:


> I believe if you are restoring a bike then you need to do as much research as possible. The period ads, catalogs,and photos offer the best guides. Original, untouched bikes offer the best evidence of what was actually produced. I think using the "they just used whatever they had so it could have come like this" is over used and a lot of times used to rationalize something done incorrectly. Jus my 2c. V/r Shawn



I agree. There are variances, but still there is a common thread on a model that must be followed. In some cases, no literature exists at all, so you must research the options and features for that model year, from that manufacturer. In two instances, I carefully cleaned a bike frame to see which OEM parts it had, all parts from a bike company will leave wear marks - fossils if you will - on paint and metal.

Just takes a lot of patience.

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## GTs58 (Dec 16, 2017)

For years I always thought that the new two stage Mayweg front carrier on the Jags and Corvettes were first used on the 59 models. Over the years I saw a few 58 models with this style Mayweg and always assumed that someone changed out the carriers over the years. Then I came across this comic ad for Christmas 1958. Sometime as early as September 58 Schwinn started using the new carrier but not on all the last production Jags and Corvettes.


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## old hotrod (Dec 17, 2017)

Like others have said, a catalog is a reference for that particular vendor/distributor and applies to a small sliver of time, sometimes a small area of the country and is a sales tool only, not a build or engineering document. Bike sales were cyclical with Spring/Summer catalogs and models often differing from Fall/Winter models and not necessarily on a year to year cycle. As catalogs continue to pop up on the web, the variances are more obvious. But sometimes, a catalog is all we as collectors have to go by but still, have a little flexibility for period correctness.
For example, I have a 35 Rollfast V200 "Custom Built." There are no 35 catalogs, at least not found so far. I only have a couple of period original pictures, some as found pics and a faded copy of a page from a magazine showing an illustration of the bike only, no details. So I work to put the bike together roughly as pictured, not as found since all references are slightly different...but it's all I have to go by.
And as for the Schwinn guys, I had a Panther and put whitewalls on it to complete the 50s look. Got a little flack (more like teasing) that the Panther was not correct with whitewalls and would have been delivered with blackwalls which it had when I got it. At this point I popped out my pocket computer (smart phone) pulled up the Schwinn catalog cover page that clearly showed whitewalls and bam, mic drop...lol...catalog-schmatalog, lets go ride..


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## charnleybob (Dec 18, 2017)

Manufacturers weren't making collectibles, they were making products to sell.
I have known of and seen nice original bikes that the owners took parts/ head badges off because they didn't match a catalog.
Eddie Boros, who did work at Schwinn, was adamant that during some bike assembly runs, they would use parts that were available if they ran out of what was suppose to be stock.
I remember when my mother took me to a local Schwinn bike shop in 1957 to buy a bike.
The owner said he could put any part she wanted on the bike.
That practice has been standard practice at bike shops since bikes were invented.


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## Autocycleplane (Dec 19, 2017)

It is certainly much easier to believe all things in life are black and white, follow a linear progression, are catalog perfect, etc etc.

I see "errors" in the catalog pictures that don't jive with what has been found to have been produced, so what does "correct" mean? It has been well documented that the Schwinn factory did whatever it took (within reason) to move product out the door, not unlike other popular Americana brands of the time(Fender guitars comes to mind). It's not like they had the sophisticated supply chain management systems that exist today, it was very much a pen, paper, and snail mail operation. 

You can do all the research you want, the fact remains there isn't much real, hard data available about some of these bikes and manufacturers - mostly accounts of factory workers and shop owners of the day along with some catalogs and industry-related materials. That is certainly helpful for understanding the big picture and history, but doesn't always do that much for the production numbers and details many of us would love to have about these vintage bikes. I find many of the older hobby "references" to be full of folklore and misinformation anyway.

I agree the excuse of factory variance is likely over-used. My favorite bikes are the ones that have all original parts and are unique, I personally don't always care about what is "correct".


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## charnleybob (Dec 19, 2017)

Trying to be correct can drive you crazy!
Catalog bikes are a whole different puzzle.
If you lived west of the Mississippi, one manufacture would make a bike.
East of the Mississippi, another.
I have seen numerous Hawthornes, part Cleveland Welding, part Rollfast.
This endless variety of what you find makes this hobby interesting.


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## hellshotrods (Dec 19, 2017)

Some people "special ordered " their bikes with different or custom paint or accessories than anything the standard catalog would show. 

Nobody really cares .....


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## Nashman (Feb 22, 2019)

Good points all around. Variety is the spice of life. Non conformity is great.  Cookie cutter is boring.  Blatant misrepresentation is lying. It's fun to change certain things on a bicycle, people have done that since it was invented. Just be honest about it. That's where " Hot Rods" came from. I kinda shuddered as I put a set of Shelby/Hiawatha swept back handle bars on a "Custom 1938 CCM Flyte" last week as they never came that way from the factory. (It did come with a Troxel toolbox saddle at times though, and a tomahawk stem was an accessory available eventually, so why not?) I dig it. I'd say it deserves them. The lines are joined.


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## vincev (Feb 22, 2019)

Catalog pictures are really helpful but dont bet the farm on them being totally accurate.


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