# Cadillac bicycle ID needed



## ratina (Sep 3, 2012)

I just picked up this ladies 28" Cadillac badged bicycle. From what I've gathered, I think its Shelby built? I can post the serial number tomorrow. Can anyone narrow down a year? 

Has metal clad wheels, rear chain tire is in pretty good shape, skip tooth. Mens long spring saddle with rotted pan. Seat tube is slightly bent and has a re weld, can this be fixed? 



























Any help is appreciated!


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## ratina (Sep 4, 2012)

anyone know anything?


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## Rambler (Sep 5, 2012)

I would say teen’s era roughly 1910-1920 maybe even into early 1920's. Front fork is bent back. I think the seat post weld looks suspiciously like someone was trying to shorten the frame by cutting out a section of the seat post tube to lower the height of the seat. Seat height looks low to me in relation to the height of the handle bars. Look very carefully at the rear fender for signs of modification, that will tell the story if my observation is correct or not. If there is an extra mounting hole in the rear fender or if the front end of the fender has been cut off or modified in some way I would guess this frame has been modified/shortened. Location of weld just seems a very strange place for a frame to break on its own and I have seen other bicycles modified in this way before. If it has been modified it does hurt the collectability of this bike some as it is no longer original and not valuable enough to bother trying to bring back to original state again.


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## Gary Mc (Sep 5, 2012)

On age, I think mid to late 1920's based on head badge.  Seat looks like a boys so probably not original.  Other than that bike looks original to me.  On the frame questions: anything can be fixed, if you can weld & bend tube yourself it can be done cheaply and it worth the effort.  If you have to pay someone else you are looking at some serious money invested.  Agree front fork is bent back too & will have to be addressed.  It is a girl's bike so restored value would be no where near what you would invest to get it back on the road.  Not fair but reality.  I hate to see complete bikes parted out but with the frame issues this might be a candidate.  There is value in that "seriously" COOL head badge, chain cover, hubs, etc.  If you can check to see what type hubs it has and post those as well as serial number that can help narrow year.  Great find but frame/fork issues may limit your potential to restore.


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## scrubbinrims (Sep 5, 2012)

It definitely a Shelby built, but the reality is that you have a good core troxel bucket seat for recovering, some decent wheels, and a cool early Cadillac badge...and little else.
Chris


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## ratina (Sep 5, 2012)

Rambler said:


> I would say teen’s era roughly 1910-1920 maybe even into early 1920's. Front fork is bent back. I think the seat post weld looks suspiciously like someone was trying to shorten the frame by cutting out a section of the seat post tube to lower the height of the seat. Seat height looks low to me in relation to the height of the handle bars. Look very carefully at the rear fender for signs of modification, that will tell the story if my observation is correct or not. If there is an extra mounting hole in the rear fender or if the front end of the fender has been cut off or modified in some way I would guess this frame has been modified/shortened. Location of weld just seems a very strange place for a frame to break on its own and I have seen other bicycles modified in this way before. If it has been modified it does hurt the collectability of this bike some as it is no longer original and not valuable enough to bother trying to bring back to original state again.




Wow its even older than I thought. I don't see any holes in the rear fender. The frame has a joint there (not sure of the proper name) Murray frames had these for a while in the 40's/50's in the same spot. I think the tube just broke there and was rewelded. I know a couple people who weld so hopefully someone can fix it. I hate parting bikes out.


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## ratina (Sep 5, 2012)

Gary Mc said:


> On age, I think mid to late 1920's based on head badge.  Seat looks like a boys so probably not original.  Other than that bike looks original to me.  On the frame questions: anything can be fixed, if you can weld & bend tube yourself it can be done cheaply and it worth the effort.  If you have to pay someone else you are looking at some serious money invested.  Agree front fork is bent back too & will have to be addressed.  It is a girl's bike so restored value would be no where near what you would invest to get it back on the road.  Not fair but reality.  I hate to see complete bikes parted out but with the frame issues this might be a candidate.  There is value in that "seriously" COOL head badge, chain cover, hubs, etc.  If you can check to see what type hubs it has and post those as well as serial number that can help narrow year.  Great find but frame/fork issues may limit your potential to restore.




Thanks for the response. I know a couple people who weld so I will ask them. I know the fork needs to be straightened, I know someone who can do that as well. Do you know the value of the bike or parts on it? Something this old is new to me. I know they don't make tires for these wheels anymore correct? Its a shame because I'm pretty sure the rear one is still good, it only has light cracking in some spots. The front wheel is pretty straight, needs a little truing. The rear wheels spokes are incredibly loose so I'm not sure on the condition yet.


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## Rambler (Sep 5, 2012)

Gary Mc may be correct about bike even being late 1920's, by this time period 1910's thru 1920's most average ordinary bicycles started to look alike (not distinctive from year to year) unless it was a unique bicycle in some way. Some detailed photos of wheel hubs, crank, frame joints, serial number would all help in narrowing that age range.

As for the tire question, yes you can still purchase original single tube glue on tires as this bicycle would have originally had, now for the bad news is those tires cost about $150 each.

I caution you on investing much money into this bike as it is not worth much, maybe $200-$300 tops, other than the value of the wheels and some of the components the frame being a damaged girls bike is not really worth repairing unless you can repair it nearly for free. I still think the frame looks oddly out of proportion with seat being so low in relation to the handlebars but if you cannot find any evidence at all of the rear fender ever being modified in some way than maybe it is correct the way it is. Just very unusual to have such a short frame.


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## Gary Mc (Sep 5, 2012)

I agree with Rambler on all he added & too say be careful on spending a lot on this bike.  Current value as sits maybe $200, parted out maybe $400-$600 dependent on condition of parts and rarity of items.  If you restored this bike just to riding condition I would think top value still less than sum of parts value as it sits at maybe $300-$400.  Fully restored probably same or less than that.  To restore it just to rideable condition you are going to have to spend probably at the minimum $550.  $300 on tires, $100 on a good condition correct seat or repairing the boys seat, $50 on correct repop grips or more for originals, minimum $100 in miscellaneous you WILL find wrong or broke.  Even if you swapped rims to 700c & modern tires you are at $300 min on tires & rims plus another $100 on having them built, still high dollar to get to rideable.

I would only restore this or get it to riding condition if you TRULY LOVE IT and plan to keeping it a long time.  It is a very cool girls bike as I said earlier but too many issues.  A perfect example is my current 1930 project bike I am restoring to original riding condition, no replating, no painting but was missing a lot of parts.  I have sunk $1800 into a bike worth maybe $600 tops when I'm done so I'll never recoup my investment but I LOVE the bike & plan on keeping it very long term.  I wanted it put back & that's the price I am willing to pay to do it but you need to understand correct parts for these old bikes are often hard to find & pricey.  Yours to do what you want but carefully consider it before you jump in and definitely price out what it would take to get it back on the road in total before you make that decision.


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## ratina (Sep 5, 2012)

Rambler said:


> Gary Mc may be correct about bike even being late 1920's, by this time period 1910's thru 1920's most average ordinary bicycles started to look alike (not distinctive from year to year) unless it was a unique bicycle in some way. Some detailed photos of wheel hubs, crank, frame joints, serial number would all help in narrowing that age range.
> 
> As for the tire question, yes you can still purchase original single tube glue on tires as this bicycle would have originally had, now for the bad news is those tires cost about $150 each.
> 
> I caution you on investing much money into this bike as it is not worth much, maybe $200-$300 tops, other than the value of the wheels and some of the components the frame being a damaged girls bike is not really worth repairing unless you can repair it nearly for free. I still think the frame looks oddly out of proportion with seat being so low in relation to the handlebars but if you cannot find any evidence at all of the rear fender ever being modified in some way than maybe it is correct the way it is. Just very unusual to have such a short frame.




I will try to get some nice close up shots of various parts of the bike tonight, including the serial number. I knew parts wouldn't be cheap. I couldn't justify spending that much on tires for a bike I would never ride. I would also hate to put modern wheels on it as well. I really don't want to part the bike out either. Guess I need to figure out what to do with it.


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## ratina (Sep 5, 2012)

Gary Mc said:


> I agree with Rambler on all he added & too say be careful on spending a lot on this bike.  Current value as sits maybe $200, parted out maybe $400-$600 dependent on condition of parts and rarity of items.  If you restored this bike just to riding condition I would think top value still less than sum of parts value as it sits at maybe $300-$400.  Fully restored probably same or less than that.  To restore it just to rideable condition you are going to have to spend probably at the minimum $550.  $300 on tires, $100 on a good condition correct seat or repairing the boys seat, $50 on correct repop grips or more for originals, minimum $100 in miscellaneous you WILL find wrong or broke.  Even if you swapped rims to 700c & modern tires you are at $300 min on tires & rims plus another $100 on having them built, still high dollar to get to rideable.
> 
> I would only restore this or get it to riding condition if you TRULY LOVE IT and plan to keeping it a long time.  It is a very cool girls bike as I said earlier but too many issues.  A perfect example is my current 1930 project bike I am restoring to original riding condition, no replating, no painting but was missing a lot of parts.  I have sunk $1800 into a bike worth maybe $600 tops when I'm done so I'll never recoup my investment but I LOVE the bike & plan on keeping it very long term.  I wanted it put back & that's the price I am willing to pay to do it but you need to understand correct parts for these old bikes are often hard to find & pricey.  Yours to do what you want but carefully consider it before you jump in and definitely price out what it would take to get it back on the road in total before you make that decision.




I couldn't justify spending that much money on any bike, especially a girls bike that I would never ride. Thankfully I didn't pay much for the bike. I picked it up with a few others and knew it had to have some value. If I did anything I would just clean it up and rebuild the hubs, bottom bracket, and headset. Too bad it doesn't have a front tire though. I think it looks cool as is, even if I just hung it on the wall. I'm going to have to think about what to do with it. Thanks again for the information, and I'll post some new pics and the serial number later.


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## ratina (Sep 5, 2012)

Here are some better pictures. I see no signs of alteration on the rear fender. Plus I think if the frame was shortened the rear stays would be bent down. The serial number is: H117417. The 1's appear to be upside down? 

I think the rear hub is a Morrow. Its hard to read the brake arm. Can't see anything on the front hub. Are the handlebars Torrington since there is a hole in the end?


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## ratina (Sep 5, 2012)

one more


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## Rambler (Sep 6, 2012)

Great photos! That helps. I do believe it looks mid to late 1920's maybe even very early 30's to me. I will dig through my archives this evening to see if I can come up with anything more conclusive. Hopefully someone has a serial number chart for this manufacturer which will help identify the year.


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## ratina (Sep 6, 2012)

Rambler said:


> Great photos! That helps. I do believe it looks mid to late 1920's maybe even very early 30's to me. I will dig through my archives this evening to see if I can come up with anything more conclusive. Hopefully someone has a serial number chart for this manufacturer which will help identify the year.




Thanks! I hope you find something


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## Rambler (Sep 6, 2012)

I referenced the Shelby Bicycle book published by John Polizzi. I'm absolutely convinced scrubbinrims's is correct, it is a Shelby built bicycle. Based on what information I could gather from the book, the frame, crank, and other features all point to confirmation it is a Shelby bicycle roughly about 1928 give or take a couple years.


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## ratina (Sep 7, 2012)

Rambler said:


> I referenced the Shelby Bicycle book published by John Polizzi. I'm absolutely convinced scrubbinrims's is correct, it is a Shelby built bicycle. Based on what information I could gather from the book, the frame, crank, and other features all point to confirmation it is a Shelby bicycle roughly about 1928 give or take a couple years.




Thank you for looking into that for me!


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## hoofhearted (Sep 10, 2012)

ratina ... i would like to purchase that girl's Shelby ... easy $$$ for you ... for my proposition 
e-m direct .... thank you .. patric cafaro

hoofhearted121@yahoo.com OR tela-fone 937-879-0861 ... calls accepted 6 a.m. to 8:59 p.m. EST .. any day.


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