# 1891-1895 Pneumatic & Crusty - Can Anyone ID?



## Brian R. (Mar 1, 2020)

I picked up this rusty critter ...It was cheap. Three questions:
1. What is it? Wide flat metal rim on rear, with radial spokes could be a good clue. The ratty tire on the back tells me the rear rim is original to the bike. There's a really low badge screw hole, near the bottom of the head tube.
2. Is it now in the lawn-ornament / boat anchor phase of life, with its functionality as a bicycle gone forever, or is it saveable? I'm afraid to touch it.
3. That tire looks significant. I read that Dunlop started encasing its tires in canvas from year 2. Is it a first generation pneumatic tire?


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## Rambler (Mar 1, 2020)

Probably not 1891 since pneumatic tires really were not widely available by most bicycle manufacturers until 1892.

1. What is it? Wide flat metal rim on rear, with radial spokes could be a good clue. The ratty tire on the back tells me the rear rim is original to the bike. There's a really low badge screw hole, near the bottom of the head tube. *Rear rim is most likely original to the bike, front wheel is most likely a replacement.*
2. Is it now in the lawn-ornament / boat anchor phase of life, with its functionality as a bicycle gone forever, or is it saveable? I'm afraid to touch it. *This is certainly still restoreable.*
3. That tire looks significant. I read that Dunlop started encasing its tires in canvas from year 2. Is it a first generation pneumatic tire? *The canvas you see now was originally covered by a coating of rubber which has deteriorated and flaked away. You probably will find some bits of the rubber where the tire was protected by the rim.*


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## oldspoke (Mar 1, 2020)

Hello Blue Streak
I would agree it can come back .
Soak it in a bath of Molasses to remove the rust.
If it's a lone hole in the lower area of the head tube could this be an oil hole for the lower head cup ? If so the perhaps the bike had a decal and not a badge .
Glenn


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## David Brown (Mar 1, 2020)

Hi Brian
 That might be a Goold Brantford. The fork crown and blades look Brantford.


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## piercer_99 (Mar 1, 2020)

In this Dunlop ad, it states "When first produced it was very crude 91 saw many improvements"


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## Craig Allen (Mar 1, 2020)

This bike can be saved. Spray weld the frame to build it back up. Afterwards, the inside of the tubing can be coated with a linseed oil/beeswax solution to protect from further rusting.


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## pelletman (Mar 2, 2020)

Anything can be saved.  How much you wanna spend?!  I would put it at 93/94 with the rear rim and style of the bike.  Any engraving on the ends of the pedals?  They look Victorish from where I sit.  But I can't see much and I am NOT saying I think the bike is a Victor


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## The Carolina Rambler (Mar 2, 2020)

Just like everyone above stated, this bicycle is very much savable and restore-able completely.  It will be a challenge and very time consuming, won't be cheap, but definitely worth it.  This will be a fine bike to ride once its finished.  Not too many of these left around still, and not easy to come by.  I would say if you say you got it cheap, like $100 or less cheap, then you really did get an excellent deal!  A lot of people, myself included, would envy such a deal as that!  If that was my bike, I think I could restore for under $1000 if I did everything myself, given that it is fairly complete and looks pretty solid.  I think even that chain could perhaps be saved and used, hard to say.  That's a hard to get chain.  Just my take on it;   Good Luck!


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## Brian R. (Mar 2, 2020)

Thanks everyone for the help! Just as Rambler said, there are little bits of rubber where the canvas meets the rim, so originally the canvas was on the inside of the tire under a layer of rubber which has flaked off.

I could not see any markings on the pedals. If it had end caps originally, they're gone now.

Dave Brown is going to help me explore the possibilty that it was made by Goold, in Brantford. It was found in a barn in south western Ontario, so it could be a Brantford. I'm keeping my fingers crossed because Canadian-made bikes is the main focus of my collecting. 

Even if it's an import, I will still see what I can do to resurrect it. I will leave the rear wheel untouched. If I try to get it back on the bike path I will build a different wheelset.

Thanks again. It's always fun to learn about a new find with help from fellow Cabers.


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## Brian R. (Apr 19, 2020)

I have an update: To my great surprise, I was able to completely dismantle the bike. I don't think I would have attempted it without the encouraging words from Cabers in this thread that it can be resurrected. Thank you for the feedback.

Everything threaded came unscrewed with help from sprays of Liquid Wrench. The handlebar is so thick and robust that it was able to withstand upward taps with a mini sledgehammer without the slightest dent. The only piece that caused grief was one of the crank arm cotter pins that had to be drilled out.

I think the chain can be saved. I got most of the links free. It's currently submerged in a bath of oil. I will need to find a very wide rear hub to span the width between the chainstays. Dave Brown is going to work his magic on the saddle.

I will post further updates as this project progresses.


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## Freqman1 (Apr 20, 2020)

Any clues to original color inside the head tube or bottom bracket areas? V/r Shawn


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## Brian R. (Apr 20, 2020)

Yes, black.


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## bricycle (Apr 20, 2020)

reminds me of mine... 1893-5 tops








						I got my baby back, baby back, baby back, baby back... | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					






					thecabe.com


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## The Carolina Rambler (Apr 20, 2020)

Lookin good, lookin good!  With a bike like that, the hard part is done once you get it taken apart.  Its mostly down hill and easier with restoration from this point.  Keep us posted with your progress, especially when it's road ready!  This is gonna be a good one when its finished.


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## Brian R. (May 6, 2020)

Some parts back from the plating shop. I'm truly amazed at what can be done with such badly rusted and pitted parts:


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## The Carolina Rambler (May 7, 2020)

That is fantastic!  I am so glad you are going the extra mile and getting her back on the road, the right way!  Just out of curiousity, if you don't mind me asking.  What did it run you in cost to get those parts replated like that?  I am in a similar position currently, considering having some plating done.


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## Brian R. (May 13, 2020)

The Carolina Rambler said:


> That is fantastic!  I am so glad you are going the extra mile and getting her back on the road, the right way!  Just out of curiousity, if you don't mind me asking.  What did it run you in cost to get those parts replated like that?  I am in a similar position currently, considering having some plating done.



Hi, sorry for the delay. No problem, it cost me $325 CDN, which at today's exchange rate works out to $230 US. This also included blasting the pedal axles (not shown). As plating shops go, this guy's very reasonable.

At the end of the project I'll post a list of all the expenses. I'm sure in the end it'll come out to more than what I could sell the bike for, but then we're not in it for the money, right?


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## Brian R. (May 13, 2020)

Here's the seat, ready to go to Dave Brown for the nose piece and leather.


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## locomotion (May 17, 2020)

David Brown said:


> Hi Brian
> That might be a Goold Brantford. The fork crown and blades look Brantford.




I like the construction of these old frames.

but are you certain this is the original fork to the bike? looks replaced like the front rim and hub ..... past head-on collision?
the fork looks built too "heavily" for the rest of the bike's delicate construction! IMO
also the crown of the fork would hit the frame pretty quickly when turning due to the massive crown
not the type of fork construction that I would expect to match the age of this frame

Also as far as the Brantford origin, I am not certain.
i own a few Brantfords (as Dave does), and the Brantford fork is somewhat similar but the construction is finer on a true Brantford
the side profile of a Brantford fork is wide but the front profile on a Brantford fork is pretty thin
also the spacing between the two crowns of a Brantford fork is wider
the Brantford forks that I have seen also have two oval pieces on the top of the fork crown
the top crown of your fork is flat!


the plater sure laid it thick on there to hide all the pitting ..... hopefully you will be able to reassemble all the parts, especially the cranks on the sprocket center shaft.
you lost all the delicate details of the junction where the stem is welded on the handlebars! that was my favorite detail on this bike.

the rear part of the seat was probably also nickel judging from the original pictures you posted.


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