# Nervous in Suburbia - 1973 Suburban



## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 21, 2022)

Even though I really shouldn't be spending any more money, lately I've had the itch to buy another bike (crazy, huh?).  Middleweights, lightweights, even a flamingo Sierra, but there was one thing that kept stymieing my search efforts-- the current price of gasoline.  I was _this_ close to pulling the trigger on a nice, completely original '62 American with two-speed hub, until I realized the tank of gas it would take to drive the three hours each way to fetch it would cost as much as the bike.  Nuts.

I was getting tempted to call about the pink Sierra, when this particular bike popped up on my local Offerup page.  There was no description, just a couple of crappy pictures, but I realized then and there that I had to pull the trigger.  And it was only fifteen minutes away!  Oh joy!  Here she is, in all her seventies glory.  A damn time capsule.  This is how she came from the garage I pulled her out of, I hadn't yet run so much as a microfibre cloth across her yet.

Oh, and I AM listening to Gordon Lightfoot as I compose this.  Seemed appropriate.






























It's so stinkin' CLEAN.  I doubt it was ridden more than a couple of times and then put away.  A little corrosion on the light frames, a couple of scratches to the paint, but other than that, it just glistens.  I don't know what the hell I'm going to do with it, but at least I scratched that itch and came away rather happy for a change.


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## GTs58 (Oct 21, 2022)

That's a real clean one, congrats! 
Only one problem that I can see. You said that you had really short legs so it's going to be a real chore getting on and off of it. You can add wood blocks to the pedals if you can't reach them, but that doesn't make it any easier mounting or dismounting. 😜


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 21, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> That's a real clean one, congrats!
> Only one problem that I can see. You said that you had really short legs so it's going to be a real chore getting on and off of it. You can add wood blocks to the pedals if you can't reach them, but that doesn't make it any easier mounting or dismounting. 😜


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 21, 2022)




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## Arnold Ziffel (Oct 22, 2022)

Thats a biggie  24" inch frame.
It (Suburban 10 speed) is exactly the same as the Varsity,  EXCEPT THAT THE SUBURBAN HAS THE CONTINENTAL'S FRONT FORK.      The Suburban has the same exact  L.S. 2.4  weinmann sidepulls as the Varsity, while the Conti. has centerpulls.

You can significantly upgrade the SUBURBAN 10 speed   by  changing out it's freewheel and rear derailler  for the better freewheel and far better rear derailleur that appears on the SUBURBAN 5 speed and 1970 and later Collegiate  (before the FFS came in 1977-1978).

The 5 speed SUBURBAN (1970 - 1976)  and COLLEGIATE of (1970 - 1977)   have  far superior Shimano built (model J) freewheels with a 32 teeth cog (1st gear, LOW GEAR)  compared to the 28 teeth cog (1st gear, LOW GEAR) of the French made (model F) freewheel seen on Suburban 10 speed, the Varsity, and on the Continental.
       The  5 speed SUBURBAN  &  Collegiate of 1970-1977   also have Shimano built for Schwinn rear derailleurs which are light years better than the  Huret Allvit that   VARSITY-CONTINENTAL & SUBURBAN 10 SPEED  came with.*
            *  unless the Chicago production line was out of Allvits, then the Varsity...etc  would temporarily receive the far superior Shimano built rear derailleur that went on the seventies era Collegiates & 5 speed Suburbans.
Shimano built GT-100 (1970 through 1973, and into Feb 1974)............Shimano built GT-120 (1974-1977)
These Shimano rear derailleurs  reliably shift a 32 teeth cog.   None of the European rear derailleurs can reliably shift anything beyond a 28 teeth cog.

If it ain't broke, there is no need to swap it out,  as the Huret Allvit is Europe's best overall rear derailleur, although it is not even close to the quality of anything from Shimano from 1968 onward or Maeda SUNTOUR 1970 onward.
I'd rather have the reliabilty and shift quality of a Japanese rear derailleur,  but then I ride longer distances on rides than most people do.    European front derailleur is fine, but you won't catch me riding any multi speed, derailleured bicycle with a European made rear derailleur.     Here comes the Sun tour......european is Do Do.........for more than fifty years this has been clear.


To find a perfect fit RED fender reflector:
Go to Ebay and search all categories for:   41mm reflector
You should see about eight or more different Chinese vendors that carry these generic round red 41mm reflectors with an integral threaded stud and nut.     These are the exact size to replace the missing original  assuming that original stamped steel chromed mounting bezel still remains on the fender (YOURS STILL HAS IT).   What you do is simply remove the existing Schwinn carriage bolt holding this bezel in place......there is a square flat steel retaining "nut" than can be screwed off with needle nose pliers.     THE INTEGRAL STUD ON THE 41mm CHINESE REFLECTOR IS THE PERFECT DIAMETER TO FIT IN PLACE OF THE ORIGINAL SCHWINN CARRIAGE BOLT.
*******THE ONLY THING IS THIS INTEGRAL STUD IS APPROXIMATELY  about 4mm  TOO LONG, IN MY OPINION.
Here is how to cut down this threaded integral stud on this CHINESE REFLECTOR to the perfect length for your application.
*TEST THE FIT LENGTH BEFORE DETERMINING HOW MUCH TO CUT OFF**
You need a piece of metal scrap  like   a  lid  from a  vegetable or bean can.......the lid that your can opener removes from the can.     WHY DO YOU NEED THIS SCRAP?   Well,  you need it because you punch a hole in the scrap metal piece (here we use a can lid...but anything similar or wood scrap like piece of a wooden yardstick etc will do..)
You punch a hole in the scrap  big enough to mount the reflector to the piece of scrap,  so then you can clamp the scrap piece securely in your vise SO THAT YOU CAN CUT A LITTLE BIT AS NECESSARY FROM THE LENGTH of the integral stud.
You do it this way BECAUSE if you attempt to just clamp the reflector in the vice, you will destroy the reflector as it will get marred up........Just bolt the 41mm chinese reflector  securely/firmly to a scrap piece so that you can mount the scrap between the jaws of the vice.    IF YOU ARE USING  A  HAND HACKSAW, YOU MAY NEED A  VERY STIFF CAN LID OR MULTIPLE STACKED CAN LIDS,  or  a more rigid-stiffer piece of metal scrap.........
****Don't risk your fingers by trying to cut off the small amount while holding the reflector with one hand and  having the other hand working the Dremel tool with cut off wheel.   The extra five minutes that it takes to scrounge up a piece of scrap to have your vice hold the Reflector  is  good insurance that you don't lose the use of a finger.   
     You'll see the 41mm  Red reflector that I'm talking about that is a near perfect match.
I have replaced a bunch of them on fenders that had the reflector gone.
These chinese vendors typically sell them in at least a quantity of two reflectors.
Be sure to get the proper red ones with a silver perimeter outer just like how the originals are because these Chinese vendors offer these reflectors in ORANGE too,  and  sometimes they have them packaged for sale as two reds. or one red and one orange.     All of them will comply with selling you both reds,  or whatever multiple qty that you wish IF YOU DON'T READILY SEE A LISTING ALREADY THERE. 
You should find them for somewhere around five bucks total for a qty of two with free shipping to the usa.
I got them a few years ago for about four bucks total,  so they should not be too much more today.
They are great quality reflectors and are perfect once you address the extra length on the integral stud.
My practice is to put a tiny drop of mixed 5 minute clear epoxy on the threads/nut so as not to worry about needing a lockwasher.
It ain't comin' off, or ever getting loose and rattling back there with a little tiny bit of epoxy there.
   You can probably if you wanted to, just use the 41mm Chinese reflector as is ,  and it probably might give ya enough clearance between the tire,  but it will look like a really half-baked attempt if someone sees  that part  of the inner rear fender.  The person seeing an otherwise great bike will wonder why on earth did they leave it poking out like that when they could have easily trimmed it to appear like the factory might have done it.


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 22, 2022)

Took her out for a brief spin this morning.  Tubes held air!  Needs new brake pads, stat.  Boy, she’s tall.


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## GTs58 (Oct 22, 2022)

Is rear derailleur working properly? Are those the original Schwinn tires?


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 22, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> Is rear derailleur working properly? Are those the original Schwinn tires?



It took some lubricant, but it is now.  I’m guessing they are, but the sidewalls are so crispy it’s hard to tell.


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 22, 2022)

Wow, my local bike shop actually came through with tires for me.  Their website said they didn’t carry 27s, but I called and sure enough they had a set.  NEVER TRUST THE INTERNETZ


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 22, 2022)

Removed the rims.  This is the underside of the front fender.  Did I say this bike was CLEAN?


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## Arnold Ziffel (Oct 22, 2022)

Those Kenda K-35  27 x 1 1/4  32-630mm  tires are Excellent.   
I have them on a couple of SUBURBANS.
The gumwall on that K-35 holds up decently.   (the gumwall on the 26" 597mm Schwinn collegiate tire DOES NOT as it degrades )
Of course, the 27"  kenda K-35  mounts easily.................where the collegiate's tire has always been a bear to mount.


Here are two random vendors of that new REPLACEMENT  Red Reflector for your Fender:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/333766374933?campid=5335809022https://www.ebay.com/itm/174503624061?campid=5335809022----those Chinese vendors have good visual photographs that you can zoom and see exactly that all of the Chinese vendors do in fact carry this EXACTLY THE SAME  41mm red universal motorcycle generic reflector---
THE ONES THAT YOU SEE IN THESE TWO RANDOMLY SELECTED LISTINGS ARE EXACTLY THE ONE THAT YOU WANT.
Now,  I have no  endorsement  as to what Chinese vendor is the best choice.   There  are plenty of other potential Chinese vendors besides these two randomly chosen examples listed above.
As I mention previously,  I have ordered more than twenty of these exact 41mm red reflectors from different Chinese vendors.
The last time was during 2019.      Though, ordered from several different vendors,  the reflectors all were EXACTLY the same with the exact same markings on them.   They are quality parts.    None of them took longer than 21 days to reach me in the USA, but that was several years ago before the Pandemic when things were normal.


You may also wish to consider INSTALLING A WATER BOTTLE  cage   on YOUR Suburban.
             I highly recommend the UPC code 7 68661 55039 4     (Zefal part # 5039 CONE Universal Cage Plastic)
*ZEFAL pulse UNIVERSAL MOUNT Bottle Cage with VELCRO STRAP**
++ USE  3m  Super Weatherstripping Adhesive   TO SECURE THE Rubber Block that the VELCRO alone is supposed to secure.       ----Failure to USE   3m Super Weatherstripping Adhesive  WILL RESULT IN POOR RESULTS as this Zefal pulse Universal Mount Bottle Cage with Velcro Strap  WILL  MOVE/SLIDE AROUND on electroforged Schwinn frame  without using 3M Super Weatherstripping Adhesive !!!
          *** USE  the 3m Super Weatherstripping Adhesive  (available at Auto Parts stores & Online & Amazon etc), and your Zefal bottle cage  WILL REMAIN ROCK SOLID IN PLACE as you'd want it to be.
Both  TARGET  &  WALMART did recently carry this item from at least 2018 to present day,  however I don't know whether you'll find it  today in your local store or not.
*******THE HUGE ADVANTAGE OF THIS SPECIFIC  Zefal pulse Universal Mount Bottle Cage with Velcro Strap   IS THAT YOU WILL NOT NEED TO DRILL ANY  HOLES,   AND  IT WILL NOT SCRATCH OR SCAR THE PAINT. 
It comes from Zefal in all black,  but you can choose to attach your own supplied colored plastic or carbon fiber cage instead.  You could probably attach a chrome metal or aluminum cage instead of the  supplied black Zefal cage.
I'd suggest possibly choosing the lower portion or lower middle portion of  seat-tube-perpendicular-portion-OF THE FRAME.


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## Oilit (Oct 22, 2022)

I saw a rider about 5' 6" ride a tall frame Continental one time. He leaned it over until he could throw one leg over, then rode it in a tight arc until he got it upright. Sometimes when you think someone can't do something, it just makes them that much more determined to prove you wrong.


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## GTs58 (Oct 22, 2022)

I'm two thumbs down on Kenda's gum wall tires and two thumbs and two big toes down on their tubes. Pure garbage by any standards and my experience with them. Go black or white, no gum walls.


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 22, 2022)

Figured things were going too well.  There’s no easy way to get this back together, is there?  I’ve been fighting with this for a good twenty minutes and I’m stuck.


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## GTs58 (Oct 22, 2022)

Ha! I knew that would throw you. You need to situate the deraileur with the jockey wheel cage in the position it's in when the chain and wheel are installed. Then slip the wheel in. The spring always rotates the jockey wheel cage so you need to un-rotate it for the install. And doing that will load the spring.


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 22, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> I'm two thumbs down on Kenda's gum wall tires and two thumbs and two big toes down on their tubes. Pure garbage by any standards and my experience with them. Go black or white, no gum walls.
> 
> View attachment 1717787



Well, hopefully they will hold up, keep your fingers crossed.


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## GTs58 (Oct 22, 2022)

soddruntlestuntle said:


> Well, hopefully they will hold up, keep your fingers crossed.



Their shelflife is minimal, so hopefully you got a recent production set. They’re like those cheap rubber bands. They do look nice when they’re new!


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 22, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> Ha! I knew that would throw you. You need to situate the deraileur with the jockey wheel cage in the position it's in when the chain and wheel are installed. Then slip the wheel in. The spring always rotates the jockey wheel cage so you need to un-rotate it for the install. And doing that will load the spring.



Got it refitted.  Boy, I used to take my Schwinn Homegrown mountain bike apart all the time and never had this kind of trouble.  Though I'm now going to need to do some finagling with the derailleur, as it's not shifting correctly.


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## GTs58 (Oct 22, 2022)

I can't see to much with that picture. The jockey wheel cage should be inline with the gear the chain is on and derailleur should be straight vertically. Removing and installing a wheel shouldn't affect the derailleur unless something happened or changed. Here's what the chain routing and jokey wheel cage should look like from the face view.


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## SirMike1983 (Oct 22, 2022)

I've never been a big fan of the Kendas or Duros in a 27 inch tire. I would go right for Panaracer Paselas.


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 22, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> I can't see to much with that picture. The jockey wheel cage should be inline with the gear the chain is on and derailleur should be straight vertically. Removing and installing a wheel shouldn't affect the derailleur unless something happened or changed. Here's what the chain routing and jokey wheel cage should look like from the face view.
> 
> View attachment 1717823



It's okay now, just needed some additional lubrication.  I took it back out and ran through the gears, and each time it shifted more smoothly.  And both lights work, joy!


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## GTs58 (Oct 22, 2022)

Just a quick tip. Do not use WD-40 for any kind of lubricant. If something did have a lubricant and after many years things started getting a little bound up, spraying WD on it will loosen the parts up for a short time then they will bind up even worse than before. This is a proven fact.


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 22, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> Just a quick tip. Do not use WD-40 for any kind of lubricant. If something did have a lubricant and after many years things started getting a little bound up, spraying WD on it will loosen the parts up for a short time then they will bind up even worse than before. This is a proven fact.
> 
> 
> View attachment 1717966



I try never to use WD-40 as a lubricant, but I appreciate the reminder, always good to remember.


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## GTs58 (Oct 22, 2022)

soddruntlestuntle said:


> I try never to use WD-40 as a lubricant, but I appreciate the reminder, always good to remember.



I doubt that Suburban has been touched since it left the show room floor. On all these geared bikes the Dealers informed the buyers to bring the bike back to the shop for a checkup and adjustment if needed after a few months. The cables will be stretched out a little so it was a good idea to do that. I've seen some derailleurs where someone cranked the pivot bolt up to where there was no movement. Everything should work easily and pivot smoothly when doing a dry run on a stand. You can manually hand check the pivoting of the rear derailleur and jockey cage. If it's a little tight it's pretty easy to back off the pivot bolt just a touch. The derailleurs sometimes get slightly bent out of line and that can cause shifting issues.

Looks like the 73 Suburban was still using the Huret Allvit. Here's a diagram for adjusting the movement.


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 22, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> I doubt that Suburban has been touched since it left the show room floor. On all these geared bikes the Dealers informed the buyers to bring the bike back to the shop for a checkup and adjustment if needed after a few months. The cables will be stretched out a little so it was a good idea to do that. I've seen some derailleurs where someone cranked the pivot bolt up to where there was no movement. Everything should work easily and pivot smoothly when doing a dry run on a stand. You can manually hand check the pivoting of the rear derailleur and jockey cage. If it's a little tight it's pretty easy to back off the pivot bolt just a touch. The derailleurs sometimes get slightly bent out of line and that can cause shifting issues.
> 
> Looks like the 73 Suburban was still using the Huret Allvit. Here's a diagram for adjusting the movement.
> 
> View attachment 1717974



Oh, that’s a very handy diagram, thank you!


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## Tim s (Oct 23, 2022)

A neighbor gave me his Suburban that had been sitting in their basement for over 20 years in similar condition. After I detailed it I took it back to show he and his wife and they were amazed at how it turned out. Tim


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## DrRumack80 (Oct 23, 2022)

Nice! You would have to time travel back to 1973 to find cleaner examples. You bought a 24" that is too big and I bought a '71 that is kind of small for me. Mine is nowhere near as clean as either of these bikes.

I've been using the Kendas with good results. The previous owner installed Kendas on the bike below about 2 years ago. They still look new. Also have a Kenda for a rear tire on my '77 Ross Gran Eurosport. Still holding up after 5 years.


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 24, 2022)

Great, now the brand new rear tube won’t hold air, which means I get to fight with the derailleur again, FFSFFSFFS


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## GTs58 (Oct 25, 2022)

soddruntlestuntle said:


> Great, now the brand new rear tube won’t hold air, which means I get to fight with the derailleur again, FFSFFSFFS
> 
> View attachment 1719300




I take it you used new chinese tubes? If so, there is a very special secret method of installing those POS. If they are the originals, it's probably now leaking at the valve stem area next to the tube. It'll be good practice removing and reinstalling the rear wheel though.  🤣 Then you'll be ready for the NASCAR pit crew throwing on some wheels.


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 25, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> I take it you used new chinese tubes? If so, there is a very special secret method of installing those POS. If they are the originals, it's probably now leaking at the valve stem area next to the tube. It'll be good practice removing and reinstalling the rear wheel though.  🤣 Then you'll be ready for the NASCAR pit crew throwing on some wheels.




_GROAN_


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## DrRumack80 (Oct 25, 2022)

soddruntlestuntle said:


> _GROAN_



Were you able to reinstall the rear wheel with the tire fully inflated? When I reseated the tire on mine, reinstalling the rear wheel with a fully inflated tire proved a bit difficult due to it hitting the fender. I would not want to do a rear flat repair on a Suburban out on the road.


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 25, 2022)

GTs58 said:


> I take it you used new chinese tubes? If so, there is a very special secret method of installing those POS. If they are the originals, it's probably now leaking at the valve stem area next to the tube. It'll be good practice removing and reinstalling the rear wheel though.  🤣 Then you'll be ready for the NASCAR pit crew throwing on some wheels.




That's a question I should've asked ahead of time, what's a GOOD brand of tubes for these skinny little tires?


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 25, 2022)

DrRumack80 said:


> Were you able to reinstall the rear wheel with the tire fully inflated? When I reseated the tire on mine, reinstalling the rear wheel with a fully inflated tire proved a bit difficult due to it hitting the fender. I would not want to do a rear flat repair on a Suburban out on the road.



I did, but I think I'll follow your lead next time and deflate the tire, at least give an inch or two of additional room to work with.


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## Thee (Oct 25, 2022)

soddruntlestuntle said:


> Even though I really shouldn't be spending any more money, lately I've had the itch to buy another bike (crazy, huh?).  Middleweights, lightweights, even a flamingo Sierra, but there was one thing that kept stymieing my search efforts-- the current price of gasoline.  I was _this_ close to pulling the trigger on a nice, completely original '62 American with two-speed hub, until I realized the tank of gas it would take to drive the three hours each way to fetch it would cost as much as the bike.  Nuts.
> 
> I was getting tempted to call about the pink Sierra, when this particular bike popped up on my local Offerup page.  There was no description, just a couple of crappy pictures, but I realized then and there that I had to pull the trigger.  And it was only fifteen minutes away!  Oh joy!  Here she is, in all her seventies glory.  A damn time capsule.  This is how she came from the garage I pulled her out of, I hadn't yet run so much as a microfibre cloth across her yet.
> 
> ...



Gordon! Nice! Carefree highway or Sundown ? 😂🤣😆


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 25, 2022)

Thee said:


> Gordon! Nice! Carefree highway or Sundown ? 😂🤣😆



BOTH


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## GTs58 (Oct 25, 2022)

soddruntlestuntle said:


> I did, but I think I'll follow your lead next time and deflate the tire, at least give an inch or two of additional room to work with.




Someone mentioned just the other day that Schwinn's brake pads have an open end in the retainer. (Placed at the rear) He thought that was strange and unsafe but if your smart enough to install them correctly there's nothing wrong or unsafe about them. Now the reason for the open end is for easy pad replacement without unbolting them. And the second good reason is some bikes like the middleweights and bikes with the Tourist levers do not have a quick release for the calipers to open them up when changing a tire or fixing a flat. Take out one or both brake pads and you'll have plenty of room to remove the wheel. I learned this when I was 12 on my Varsity when changing out the front pads. With the bike in the rolling position, apply the brake slightly on the wheel that you want to remove the pads and then roll the bike backwards to aid in sliding the brake pad out of the retainer. I was usually sitting on the bike also. Just remember the placement of the pads if you're going to reuse them. I'm not sure if the Dia-Compe calipers came with the open back pad retainer.


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## GTs58 (Oct 25, 2022)

soddruntlestuntle said:


> That's a question I should've asked ahead of time, what's a GOOD brand of tubes for these skinny little tires?




I can't recommend a brand, I haven't tried them all. Just get some that are Heavy Duty or say Puncture Resistant/Thorn Resistant.  They are thicker, and I just read a listing saying the Kenda Thorn Resistant is thicker at the bottom. WTH!
Some have said they have had issues with Goodyears valve stem when they came out a few years ago, but they didn't mention a size. I have a pair in the 26 X 1 3/4" size and they're pretty good with no issues as of yet. They are thicker and better than then the cheap tubes that come with a new pair of tires. I will not spend $15-$20 on just "one" tube that I know nothing about, and no specifications mentioned. 



			Robot or human?
		


Well that link showed up funny! But it still works when clicking on it.


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 26, 2022)

Alright, I’m completely effing confused now— I went out and bought a new tube, installed the tube on the rear wheel, and as I’m adjusting the derailleur and tightening up the nuts on the axle, I can hear air escaping from the brand new tube before it had even hit the ground.  Then I look over at the new tube I installed on Saturday, and I see that it is not completely flat, it’s still holding air; in fact, when I squeeze it, I hear no air escaping at all. I even went so far as to put it in the sink full of water, and I saw no air bubbles rising to the surface. So what the hell is going on? Why won’t these tubes hold air? I’ll admit, this is my first experience with the skinny tire road bikes, and I’m completely at my wits end.


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 26, 2022)

Upon further reflection, I Put more air in that first new tube, and now I do hear a leak; Could there be a burr inside the rim, or one of the spoke ends have a sharp edge?  I stupidly didn’t put tire liners in ( I’ve never needed them before), but I guess I’m going to have to try them.


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## DrRumack80 (Oct 26, 2022)

soddruntlestuntle said:


> Alright, I’m completely effing confused now— I went out and bought a new tube, installed the tube on the rear wheel, and as I’m adjusting the derailleur and tightening up the nuts on the axle, I can hear air escaping from the brand new tube before it had even hit the ground.  Then I look over at the new tube I installed on Saturday, and I see that it is not completely flat, it’s still holding air; in fact, when I squeeze it, I hear no air escaping at all. I even went so far as to put it in the sink full of water, and I saw no air bubbles rising to the surface. So what the hell is going on? Why won’t these tubes hold air? I’ll admit, this is my first experience with the skinny tire road bikes, and I’m completely at my wits end.



Is the new tube the same brand? You may have ended up with two defective tubes.  It could be that the air is escaping through a loose/defective valve stem. My LBS used to encounter this often enough, and would sometimes succeed in fixing the tube by tightening the valve (schraeder). It escapes me now how the mechanic did it. Perhaps someone else will know.


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## soddruntlestuntle (Oct 26, 2022)

DrRumack80 said:


> Is the new tube the same brand? You may have ended up with two defective tubes.  It could be that the air is escaping through a loose/defective valve stem. My LBS used to encounter this often enough, and would sometimes succeed in fixing the tube by tightening the valve (schraeder). It escapes me now how the mechanic did it. Perhaps someone else will know.



Different brand tubes; and the leak unfortunately is nowhere near the valve stem.


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## DrRumack80 (Oct 26, 2022)

soddruntlestuntle said:


> Upon further reflection, I Put more air in that first new tube, and now I do hear a leak; Could there be a burr inside the rim, or one of the spoke ends have a sharp edge?  I stupidly didn’t put tire liners in ( I’ve never needed them before), but I guess I’m going to have to try them.



If one of the spoke heads punctured the tube, it's doubtful that it would now start holding air. Unless.. is one of the tubes a "Slime" brand? The valve is a more likely culprit. But, yes, put some tire liners in, or a few turns of electrical tape in a pinch. 😀


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## Arnold Ziffel (Oct 26, 2022)

As to your QUESTION about the Schrader Valve:

DO YOU REMEMBER THOSE old metal valve stem caps,  that can UNSCREW & REMOVE the schrader valve assembly from the Valve Stem?

All schrader valve assemblies interchange.
Those old metal valve stem caps  WERE ESSENTIALLY THE  Tool  TO UNSCREW the schrader valve assembly,  so that you can instantly deflate for example  truck tire innertubes that you might take to the beach or to the lake.
I still use them to deflate the big truck tire innertubes that we use at the beach or at the lake house.
You just UNSCREW  completely and remove the schrader valve assembly from within the protruding black rubber stem and you can fully deflate the truck tire innertubes in less than a minute.    It would take you a long time if you just used something like a BIC PEN or Match Stick to press on the valve and deflate the tube by going SISS, SISS, SISS, SISS...
        Removing the schrader valve assembly ( they are all exactly the same, and they easily UNSCREW as they are threaded..) is super simple.      In the old days,  50 years ago,  we would  UNSCREW the valve assembly  and then would install NEVERLEAK into the tube...............NEVERLEAK essentially was the sealant stuff of ancient times,  like SLIME is today.    NEVERLEAK came in a  metal toothpaste like tube that you'd squeeze and roll up after you screwed it to the now hollowed valve stem.   Then you'd spin the bicycletube and tire to get the NEVERLEAK which essentially was a sort of liquified contact-rubber cement,  to distribute itself throughout the bicycle tube.       You gotta do the same thing for putting SLIME into a bicycle tube or lawn tractor tube.  etc.      You gotta UNSCREW & REMOVE the schrader valve assembly.   SLIME supplies a plastic tool which does exactly the same thing as the old antique Metal automobile valve stem caps that had the "tool" as the top of the cap.   It is nothing but two parallel flat tweezer like protrusions that work as a tool to UNSCREW the schrader valve assembly, just like a watchrepairman's tool unscrews the back off a diver's watch.     
You can check the integrity of the valve assembly,  by unscrewing it and screwing in another one.   They are all interchangeable.
If you need any for FREE,  go to any Automobile Service Station, or Automobile Tire Store,  they routinely throw away the old valve stems when installing NEW car tires.    Yes, cars haven't had tubes since the 1950's but every wheel still have a rubber valve stem with the same exact schrader valve assembly that will UNSCREW.     It is highly doubtful that there will be anything wrong with the schrader valve assembly from a USED throwaway automobile wheel's valvestem.   You can also UNSCREW the schrader valve assembly from  punctured or cut innertubes that you were gonna throw away.      
I have a small  container  think an old SUCRETS or ALTOID container with at least a dozen or more unscrewed schrader valve assemblies.     Most of them go to the  truck tire inner tubes that we use at the lake and the beach.
If your innertube  is losing air out of the valve,  just screw in another one, as its as easy as screwing in a light bulb.....if another one solves the air loss issue,  you're good to go.

As for not getting your NEW replacement bicycle tube  to get an immediate puncture,  YOU NEED TO GO CAREFULLY WITH YOUR INDEX FINGER AND FEEL EVERYWHERE ALONG THE INNER WHEEL.    Go lightly because there might be sharp areas that can slit your finger tip like a razor blade if it is poppin' your innertubes.      IF YOU SEE ANY ROUGH SPOTS, OR RUST BUILD UP THAT ISN'T SMOOTH AS A CUE BALL,   You Need to Use some very Fine  (1000 grit) emery paper/sand paper  to make it such that you can slide your finger across anywhere inside the inner rim  where it is Smooth .  IT IS OKAY TO NOT BE VISUALLY SMOOTH AND PERFECT LIKE THE PAINT & BODY EXTERIOR OF YOUR CAR.   You Don't Care If the inner wheel looks like a cast iron surface, as you don't care what the heck it looks like as long as its smooth enough so that it doesn't have any sharpness that might slice the skin on the tip of your finger.   If you can glide your finger over everywhere along the inner wheel rim without cutting up or slicing your finger, than you should have no problems with the NEW innertube getting sliced from grit or corrosion.

I am not a fan of commercially available bicycle tire liners.    They do work when properly installed,  but you don't need them unless you're always riding in goat-head city.
When I said they do work, I mean that they do add another layer of bulk between the tire itself and the tube BUT THERE IS A TRADEOFF SOMETIMES IN RIDE QUALITY  AND IF THEY AREN'T PERFECTLY INSTALLED OR IF THEY SHIFT(MOVE) AFTER SAY THE BIKE TIRE GETS LOW ON AIR FROM NON-USE OR WHATEVER,  THE RIDE QUALITY WILL SUFFER AND THEY COULD POSSIBLY WEAR THE INNER STRUCTURE OF THE TIRE CARCASS FASTER IF THAT OCCURS.

Heck,  you won't need Thorn Resistant tubes IF YOU JUST DO THE Finger Slide Around Test OF THE INNER WHEEL BEFORE YOU INSTALL  A NEW INNERTUBE/or and tire.      THORN RESISTANT tubes are made with thicker better quality rubber.    You can find fresh NEW THORN RESISTANT tubes if you search online web/amazon/ebay.  Local Bike Shops Will Not Typically   Carry The Heavy Duty Thorn Resistant Tubes because too many idiots in the bikeworld think they weigh too much.   You must remember that the "weight weenies" in the bike world began to impact even the Innertubes more than 40 years ago.   Light weight means less thick rubber but that is the way it has been since at least 1979-1980 when the 27 inch(630mm) wheel still dominated the road bike world.    Now, certainly the quality control of todays' Chinese tubes may not be as good as what you'd have expected thirty years ago.   The 27" (630mm) wheel has been antique history since 1985 when the 700C (622mm) wheel finally became the norm on all road bikes.     Heavy duty means heavy as in weight, and weight is something that "weight weenies" go beezerk about as they were known to react to 100 grams as if it were heavier than a bowling ball.


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## GTs58 (Oct 26, 2022)

Back in the 60's the local Schwinn dealership in Mesa ordered all his inventory with Thorn-Resisting tubes. A $2.00 option back in 1964 when I purchased my 64 Varsity. That bike was taken to its limits doing wheelies, riding on desert paths, BMX'g in the old Hohokam canals and riding on dirt and gravel canal roads to get there. I wore out the original tires, three sets of bar tape, front brake pads, broke a brake cable when I used the bike delivering newspapers, but I swear I don't remember ever having a flat tire. When the bull heads or what some call goat heads got stuck in the tires, I'd just scrap them off with my foot while rolling down the street. When I was cleaning up a 1961 Continental that I picked up from the original owners Grandson I installed new tires and tubes, and when I compared the new chinese tubes to the original Schwinn tubes it was like night and day. An innertube next to a condom came to mind. By the way, tire liners and rim strips are two different things.


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## DrRumack80 (Oct 27, 2022)

Yes, they are. I meant to say rim strips.  I've used electrical tape too. It's better than nothing and a good temp fix to get back on the road when an old rim strip breaks.


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## DesmoDog (Oct 27, 2022)

When checking tires for nasty sharp stuff before replacing a tube, you will only use your bare finger until you find that first special hidden sliver of sharpness. After that you will use a rag. Rags don't hurt nearly as much when they catch that little piece of safety wire or whatever it is you didn't see sticking in there. 

I do still use a finger for finding exposed spoke ends in the wheel, but even that is risky with old chrome plated rims. Flaking chrome is evil.


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## SirMike1983 (Oct 28, 2022)

soddruntlestuntle said:


> Upon further reflection, I Put more air in that first new tube, and now I do hear a leak; Could there be a burr inside the rim, or one of the spoke ends have a sharp edge?  I stupidly didn’t put tire liners in ( I’ve never needed them before), but I guess I’m going to have to try them.




Yes, there can be a burr, and yes, use rim strips when you assemble. The rim welds occasionally need to be filed smooth inside the rim. The welds on some of the later Schwinn rims from the 1970s and onward can be particularly messy. A file or dremel tool will clean them up. A rim strip is needed to cover the spoke nipples. If, after you true the wheel, a spoke begins to protrude from the nipple, file it flush with the top of the nipple and then place the rim strip.


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## Barto (Oct 29, 2022)

soddruntlestuntle said:


> View attachment 1717367



Hilarious!   I’m still cracking up!


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