# 1956 Streamliner "rustoration" (organic acid bath)



## Nos (Aug 20, 2020)

It's been a minute since I posted an oxalic acid bath before and after. I see a wealth of misinformation about them on the internet so I grabbed something out of the barn to clean up. I found a few more in there that are good candidates but I wanted to start with this one so I could video the entire thing from draw the water to rinse the frame. I theoretically have plenty of time to do it today but I need to grab some oven cleaner for the nickel and chrome parts and I don't have a correct front wheel here. I see so many people doing it wrong and frustrates the begeezes out of me.


----------



## Nos (Aug 20, 2020)

I'll do something crustier next. I went barnstorming today and there is no shortage of rust out there. I found a 38 Elgin I forgot to put in the truck I kinda got distracted.







and there is always this thing. I'd love to see how much original paint is left here


----------



## srfndoc (Aug 20, 2020)

Nice stash!  Ready to see some before/after photos.


----------



## Nos (Aug 20, 2020)

180 degree solution at 2 ph is the target. the trouble is you can throw a bicycle in a public pool and the rust will dissolve after about 24 hours. It will take too much detail with it though. I can make about 160 degrees here and i am going to fudge my ph somewhere in the upward curve. As long as i don't hit a lower number I am fine. Should take me half an hour.


----------



## Nos (Aug 20, 2020)

srfndoc said:


> Nice stash!  Ready to see some before/after photos.



Yeah I want to document this one though so there is just no question about it this time what actually happens.


----------



## Nos (Aug 20, 2020)

before and after photos just don't tell the time element story


----------



## Nos (Aug 20, 2020)

That and I need to finish this first before i start something else. the "shop" is a shambled wreck right now.


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Aug 21, 2020)

Still haven't figured out how to link my Tapatalk account to my desktop. I am just not going to worry about it. I am just shy of enough of this to be comfortable and these were on sale so I plan to tear down the bike today and bath tomorrow. I have to go all the way to Ace in Rockwall to find this stuff and I don't feel like it 





Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Aug 21, 2020)

I keep trying keep trying to explain this to people and they never want to listen so I just happened to have an app that calculates these numbers distributed by "Pirates love bacon". It's called pool pal. There is a free version for Android. I tell everyone who asks and everyone who asks always asks the same question, your water quality is going to determine acid demand. 





Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Aug 21, 2020)

I couldn't find a cork so I shoved a potato in the drain. I am using 50 gallons. I checked it at the street. 



Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Aug 21, 2020)

I might run to store anyway but I think it closes at five and I haven't tested my water yet. I know that the alkalinity is higher than 20. I can't think of z city that delivers it that low

Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Aug 21, 2020)

So when I say something like, you may need 4oz for fifty gallons and you may need four pounds stop looking at me like I have two heads. It's not my fault someone fed you the entire interwebs full off misinformation. 

Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Aug 21, 2020)

For the record: 
1. Cold water kills the reaction. Throwing ice in your solution will drop you acid out of suspension. The precipitation you see in so many tutorials is just that. A waste of chemistry. You might as well filter it out and start over. Yes you can actually do that. 
2. Throwing bicarb in the solution neutralizes it. Wait until you take your bike out. Basic solutions cause rust. Cold water with high alkalinity and an organic acid precipitated onto your frame is a basic solution with a hint of caustic snow. I see idgets warning People about damaging the paint. This is a recipe for destroyed paint

Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Aug 21, 2020)

The effectiveness of your solution is plotted on a sine wave where optimal heat and ph effect the length of time required. They peak at about 180° and 1.8 pH. After that they take a dive. There is a line before that it is a complete waste of time and wood bleach. Rust will eventually get soft enough you can wipe enough of it off it you leave it in the pool all day to lead the illiterate masses to praise the benefits of wasting a bunch of acid.




Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Aug 21, 2020)

Remove nickel, chromed, pot metal parts from your bath. You just made a Bagdad battery and you will wind up plating thing pink and green you did not want to happen


Brass will turn pink, spokes and some pedals will turn green

Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Aug 21, 2020)

I use oven cleaner and a stiff brush with a hardness equal to or lower than brass on nickel and chrome. Brass is a lower hardness than chrome so no scratches. A clean brush or a clean sponge.




Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Aug 21, 2020)

I haven't done one of these in forever so I am just going to follow my own instructions and see what happens. I trust me though and I remember reading too many published peer reviewed papers on effects of organic acids on oxidation



Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Aug 21, 2020)

Half an hour to an hour is a typical bath time for me so yes. I don't know what I am doing but that being said I don't know anyone else getting the same result in a lunch break instead of an entire day

Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Aug 21, 2020)

I legit sold the girls on letting me install two and a half times the gas instant hot water heater we need just so I could put bath house in the garden just for me and be able to make enough on demand water to do this. It has paid for itself in spades. Between lower utilities and the first dozen bicycles it is already running a positive balance




Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Aug 21, 2020)

This, this is perfect. I am going to throw this in there live so everyone knows I am not trying to trick people



Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## Nos (Sep 10, 2020)

i need to get this done, Kate cut a wall down inthe kitchen so I have to finish framing everything in there or she will make sleep in the Westfalia first


----------



## Nos (Sep 13, 2020)

here, i just stumbled on these while i was looking for something else


----------



## tacochris (Sep 13, 2020)

As hard as i tried (and i really tried) i may have to go back to college to understand all of this.  Im just a filthy greasemonkey artist and always sucked at chemistry and math other than automotive math which is a different animal.
Is there any way someone can explain this in a way that someone who doesnt understand chemistry can understand?  Respectfully speaking of course because i do respect your knowledge on the matter.  
I want to do it right and i have a few bikes to do....


----------



## Nos (Sep 13, 2020)

no worries man, translation is cold water is a waste of acid, I have to get both of these done in a couple days. I'll do them before i put stone on the fireplace and probably before I even frame the kitchen. It is honestly simpler than it looks. keep your water as hot as you can and it shouldn't take more than two hours. Too much acid is really hard to do so you don't have to worry that much about that. I'll actually establish a baseline when I do this one so I can get an idea about acid demand that would look more like a cookbook instructions. Using that poolpal app on an android makes it so easy it is almost cheating


----------



## tacochris (Sep 14, 2020)

Nos said:


> no worries man, translation is cold water is a waste of acid, I have to get both of these done in a couple days. I'll do them before i put stone on the fireplace and probably before I even frame the kitchen. It is honestly simpler than it looks. keep your water as hot as you can and it shouldn't take more than two hours. Too much acid is really hard to do so you don't have to worry that much about that. I'll actually establish a baseline when I do this one so I can get an idea about acid demand that would look more like a cookbook instructions. Using that poolpal app on an android makes it so easy it is almost cheating



Thanks!  Ive got a super crusty prewar Schwinn Ace ive gotta soak and im waiting till the right time to knock it out.  Its cruuuuusty.  Ill be lucky if there is ANY color left under the rust on this one but a man can hope.


----------



## Superman1984 (Sep 14, 2020)

@Nos don't bother dipping that deep fendered Monark ....jus' send it 29728 where it can live the rest of it's days as my prized bike & I'll OA bath it however you tell me


----------



## Uni-Bike Lou (Sep 26, 2020)

I'm in the middle of an oxalic acid bath. I'm learning the hard way that cold water doesn't remove paint. I used 10 cups of water and 2 cups of acid. It was hot when I started, but I didn't check the pH. It removed rust, but very little paint.

How do I filter the acid out of the water or should I just buy more? Or can I just had hot water until I get to 160 F? For a an entire bike how much acid do I need? Any help is appreciated.


----------



## Nos (Sep 29, 2020)

Uni-Bike Lou said:


> I'm in the middle of an oxalic acid bath. I'm learning the hard way that cold water doesn't remove paint. I used 10 cups of water and 2 cups of acid. It was hot when I started, but I didn't check the pH. It removed rust, but very little paint.
> 
> How do I filter the acid out of the water or should I just buy more? Or can I just had hot water until I get to 160 F? For a an entire bike how much acid do I need? Any help is appreciated.



that's a lot of acid for that little bit of water, the only way i know to explain it sounds like cutting chrystal meth so I would just buy some more


----------



## Nos (Sep 29, 2020)

i still haven't made time to do these two bikes. I keep getting distracted and I actually started remodeling the bath the garden tub is in. Kate promised to remind me to do that on her next day off and I just made myself a new helper for it.


----------



## Nos (Sep 29, 2020)

Uni-Bike Lou said:


> I'm in the middle of an oxalic acid bath. I'm learning the hard way that cold water doesn't remove paint. I used 10 cups of water and 2 cups of acid. It was hot when I started, but I didn't check the pH. It removed rust, but very little paint.
> 
> How do I filter the acid out of the water or should I just buy more? Or can I just had hot water until I get to 160 F? For a an entire bike how much acid do I need? Any help is appreciated.



three quart saucepan, wheeled relics David and i would do chain on the stove. I just my saladmaster cookware but you could buy a cheap pan from the thrift store or something. Mine are TP316L so I am not worried about whether I can get it out of the pan. boil it away and what is left will still be mostly viable acid


----------



## Nos (Sep 29, 2020)

tacochris said:


> Thanks!  Ive got a super crusty prewar Schwinn Ace ive gotta soak and im waiting till the right time to knock it out.  Its cruuuuusty.  Ill be lucky if there is ANY color left under the rust on this one but a man can hope.



I've done a few that even i couldn't believe still had paint


----------



## Uni-Bike Lou (Sep 29, 2020)

One more question, does an acid bath remove rattle can spray paint without removing the OG paint?

Thanks


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Sep 30, 2020)

Uni-Bike Lou said:


> One more question, does an acid bath remove rattle can spray paint without removing the OG paint?
> 
> Thanks



I use oven cleaner for that. I will stop at a car wash on my way home with a "house painted" bike and a couple cans of regular strength oven cleaner from the dollar store. It cleans the hubs whitewalls and also takes the rattle can paint right off. I've bought a few that had perfect original paint underneath the monochrome "garden" bike paint job. If I have my brass brush I'll knock the rust off the wheels and chrome fenders etc while I am there. Nothing beats oven cleaner for that. Brass is a lower hardness than chrome so no scratches. You have to find actually brass brushes though or I have even ordered brass wool. 

Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Sep 30, 2020)

A sponge with the blue nonscratch side is all I use for that. If I don't have a brush. I just spray it on and oven cleaner and a few other chemicals will actually digest the fat right out of your skin. It dissolves the oil based paints and leaves the hardened factory paint behind. There is no hardener in rattle can paint if you get my meaning. That really slippery feeling you get on your finger tips using oven cleaner is you own body fat

Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## Uni-Bike Lou (Sep 30, 2020)

Alright I’ll give it a try. How long should I keep the oven cleaner on the bike before I rinse it off?


----------



## PlasticNerd (Sep 30, 2020)

Great info @Nos and @joel.romeo.79


----------



## Pedaltherapy (Sep 30, 2020)

Time to bookmark this lesson- thanks!


----------



## Nos (Sep 30, 2020)

Uni-Bike Lou said:


> Alright I’ll give it a try. How long should I keep the oven cleaner on the bike before I rinse it off?



I spot test it with the sponge. When it all wipes off I hit it with the wand. Results may vary. Sometimes you just find a mess under that spay paint but at least you know what you have


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Sep 30, 2020)

PlasticNerd said:


> Great info @Nos and @joel.romeo.79



Technically they are both me. I never could get my Tapatalk account to work from a desk top and the last time I tried I got my old account booted from some forums. 

Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Sep 30, 2020)

Uni-Bike Lou said:


> One more question, does an acid bath remove rattle can spray paint without removing the OG paint?
> 
> Thanks



If you look earlier in the thread I post an app I use when I test the water to calculate acid demand. It is really dependant on the water volume and the dissolved solids in the water at delivery and what wind up in there from the bicycle. The benefit is the curve starts climbing rapidly at 5ph and 90° so you have a really big buffer area. That blue pool I posted I was just adding boiling water to keep the temperature up. It actually snowed that night. I don't think I kept it above 120° but I managed to finish three bicycles in there in about four hours.

Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk
My bad I thought that was the how much acid question


----------



## Marc's Classic Chrome (Oct 4, 2020)

Nos said:


> It's been a minute since I posted an oxalic acid bath before and after. I see a wealth of misinformation about them on the internet so I grabbed something out of the barn to clean up. I found a few more in there that are good candidates but I wanted to start with this one so I could video the entire thing from draw the water to rinse the frame. I theoretically have plenty of time to do it today but I need to grab some oven cleaner for the nickel and chrome parts and I don't have a correct front wheel here. I see so many people doing it wrong and frustrates the begeezes out of me.
> View attachment 1251441
> 
> View attachment 1251442



Any updates on this bike?


----------



## razinhellcustomz (Oct 30, 2020)

Nos said:


> I'll do something crustier next. I went barnstorming today and there is no shortage of rust out there. I found a 38 Elgin I forgot to put in the truck I kinda got distracted.
> View attachment 1251443
> 
> View attachment 1251444
> ...



The rustier the crusier the better. Good one mate.


----------



## Adamtinkerer (Nov 1, 2020)

Someone should compile all this info in a "De-ruster's Handbook", Scott could sell it in  the Cabe bookstore! (Not me, I've got more than a full plate already!)


----------



## Billythekid (Nov 1, 2020)

Following


----------



## Nos (Dec 23, 2020)

__





						Facebook
					






					www.facebook.com


----------



## Nos (Dec 23, 2020)

short version at four hours ago today I dropped the B-6 in a bath and followed my own instructions


----------



## Nos (Dec 23, 2020)

I tossed an old, 100 year old pope fender in there just for good measure and these are an hour later photos plus that before photo


----------



## Nos (Dec 23, 2020)

My silly mustached account is inaccessible again hang on


----------



## joel.romeo.79 (Dec 23, 2020)

Sorry best I can do. I'll figure it out tomorrow when I finish the chrome parts with oven cleaner. The bath took an hour

Sent from my S48c using Tapatalk


----------



## Nos (Dec 23, 2020)

awesome no photo from my tapatalk hang on I'll capture a screenshot. Whatever it worked just like my instructions. Look me up on Facebook if you need to ask a question about it
ask a


----------



## Nos (Dec 23, 2020)

the fender was ridiculous just for the record. Carmine red and dinosaur blue


----------



## Marc's Classic Chrome (Dec 24, 2020)

I just saw that on FB — so awesome!!


----------



## the tinker (Dec 24, 2020)

Holy moly! I don't know how I missed this whole thing! I can't believe you guys did this inside your house. I use the neighbor kid's pool. I want to add one thing to this: After your done, bottle what's left of the oxalic acid mix. It makes great mixer for tom collins and lime ricky's. My wife loves it.


----------



## kentercanyon (Mar 30, 2021)

cut the mystery.  where is the You Tube video, or the coherent version of this collection of random observations and great tips, minus the instructions?  I tried facebook and you tube.  How about a link to the single link that makes sense, please.


----------

