# Hiawatha is it a Shelby and or a CWC



## mac9lxx (Nov 20, 2020)

Got this Hiawatha the other day, can anyone help me identify it.  Serial # is C89183 which makes me thing CWC, but it has Shelby crank, but that might not be an original.  Thoughts.


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## 1817cent (Nov 20, 2020)

I vote Shelby but what do i know.  I'm a Schwinn guy.


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## JAF/CO (Nov 20, 2020)

Shelby


jfkiller53@aol.com
1 (209) 481-9464
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JRE (Nov 20, 2020)

Shelby.


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## SKPC (Nov 20, 2020)

Shelby with the older chain guard,(40's) Later sprocket and perhaps new wheels/fenders.  Maybe seat orig. but bars/stem look original. Krate Orange!
C89161 below, very very close to your number.


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## bike (Nov 20, 2020)

@blasterracing


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## mac9lxx (Nov 20, 2020)

SKPC said:


> Shelby with the older chain guard,(40's) Later sprocket and perhaps new wheels/fenders.  Maybe seat orig. but bars/stem look original. Krate Orange!
> C89161 below, very very close to your number.
> View attachment 1304652



Thank you for that info, I am thinking of doing the same with this one.  Can you tell a year by looking at the serial number, or is it a guessing game?


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## mrg (Nov 20, 2020)

Shelby all the way but Shelby ##'s don't mean a thing except they are 22 apart, man that's close!


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## SKPC (Nov 21, 2020)

Same bike, same badge, same frame, Same number with 12 numbers apart...Hmmm....some day clues like this will solve this big mystery of Shelby Serial #'s.


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## mac9lxx (Nov 21, 2020)

SKPC said:


> Same bike, same badge, same frame, Same number with 12 numbers apart...Hmmm....some day clues like this will solve this big mystery of Shelby Serial #'s.



I agree, so where is some food for thought.  from what I read and half remember, Shelby changed the letter every 100,000 bikes, A, B, C, D, so for example if H was 1st half of 1948 people could at least guestimate the year.  or if someone knows the production rate then it would be easy to date the rest.


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## Adamtinkerer (Nov 21, 2020)

I think the Shock-Ease fork narrows the range.


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## JRE (Nov 21, 2020)

Shock Ease Fork came out in 1939


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## Just Jeff (Nov 22, 2020)

SKPC said:


> Shelby with the older chain guard,(40's) Later sprocket and perhaps new wheels/fenders.  Maybe seat orig. but bars/stem look original. Krate Orange!
> C89161 below, very very close to your number.
> View attachment 1304652



I recognize that frame! Lol. And it also has a shock ease fork, the same style chain guard, and rack too!

Looks like yours will make a nice project

Also, mine is guesstimated as a 1940-41 for what that’s worth


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## SKPC (Nov 22, 2020)

@Just Jeff ....The Serial # for your frame JJ is correct?


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## Just Jeff (Nov 23, 2020)

SKPC said:


> @Just Jeff ....The Serial # for your frame JJ is correct?



My serial is very close to this one...


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## SKPC (Nov 23, 2020)

Middle "1" 1941?


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## mrg (Nov 23, 2020)

@Just Jeff, how close?


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## Just Jeff (Nov 23, 2020)

That picture of the bare metal bb is mine. And that number is close to the o.p. bikes serial number. So mine was 22 frames before his is. 

When I bought my Hiawatha some 15ish years ago at the LB Cycle Swap a gentleman out there guesstimated it was a 1940. So I’ve always gone with that assumption on the year.


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## mrg (Nov 23, 2020)

Oh, thought there was a 3rd bike sense @SKPC posted the bare metal frame.


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## mac9lxx (Nov 24, 2020)

Just Jeff said:


> That picture of the bare metal bb is mine. And that number is close to the o.p. bikes serial number. So mine was 22 frames before his is.
> 
> When I bought my Hiawatha some 15ish years ago at the LB Cycle Swap a gentleman out there guesstimated it was a 1940. So I’ve always gone with that assumption on the year.



LB Cycle Swap, lol, I used to live in San Pedro.  My bike comes from St. Louis area.  I bought it about 30 miles West of the city.


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## SKPC (Nov 24, 2020)

Been saving pics with serial #'s of Shelby bikes vetted here the last year or so and JJ's was one of them.  He posted his bikes' number when stripping it down. While I have not asked permission to post others numbers, I have assumed owners would be ok with it...If not, let me know. This one is significant because (I can't count-not 12 but 22 numbers off) they are so close it HAS to add some clarity to this mystery.  We need more like these two..


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## mac9lxx (Nov 24, 2020)

SKPC said:


> Been saving pics with serial #'s of Shelby bikes vetted here the last year or so and JJ's was one of them.  He posted his bikes' number when stripping it down. While I have not asked permission to post others numbers, I have assumed owners would be ok with it...If not, let me know. This one is significant because (I can't count-not 12 but 22 numbers off) they are so close it HAS to add some clarity to this mystery.  We need more like these two..



You are free to use mine


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## mac9lxx (Jan 15, 2021)

Just found this digging through some old computer files.  How accurate?  I don't know, but it seems legit


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## SKPC (Jan 15, 2021)

If this was accurate, then the bike in question would be a 1939, before it's fork was made available.  I have not seen any
"A frames.   "D"  "E" "I", "J", "O", "Q" or "S" frames YET either.  There are over-stamped anomalies and a few weird ones, but they are pretty consistent for the most part.  The above list claims  "A" is 1937 (A.Sturm...A=39?below). I have never seen an "A" frame. No examples yet.  If  "A" is 1937 or 6 or 8 for that matter, you should see many frames., right?   But no examples when Shelby was making nearly half of all the bikes sold?  Below is a link to my list by frame type.  Not shown on the linked list is whether the badge, fork or tank was intact although the complete list does include that info as well as whether the downtube was curved or straight.  If your frame serial number is not on the below linked list, feel free to provide it!

Shelby-badged Serial Numbers-Prewar | Classic Balloon Tire Bicycles 1933-1965 | The Classic and Antique Bicycle Exchange (thecabe.com)


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## Freqman1 (Jan 15, 2021)

mac9lxx said:


> Just found this digging through some old computer files.  How accurate?  I don't know, but it seems legit
> 
> View attachment 1339237



Except for '49 on this it is highly inaccurate and matches none of what I've seen. V/r Shawn


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## mac9lxx (Jan 15, 2021)

As I said earlier, I don't know how accurate, just something I found.


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## saladshooter (Jan 15, 2021)

SKPC said:


> If this was accurate, then the bike in question would be a 1939, before it's fork was made available.  I have not seen any
> "A frames.   "D"  "E" "I" or "J" frames either.    The above list claims  "A" is 1937. I have never seen an "A" frame. No examples yet.
> This suggests(so far) that no "A" frames were made during a time when Shelby was making nearly half of all the bikes sold?










However, the code is definitely bunk.


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## Freqman1 (Jan 15, 2021)

I think "C" is a '41 number. V/r Shawn


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## Archie Sturmer (Jan 15, 2021)

I believe that the 1st half of the Schwank list is way off; the 2nd half might be closer, if close is defined as within a few years?



And, if there are no A's or B's to reconcile, that may make the decoding easier.


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## SKPC (Jan 15, 2021)

There is debate seen here on the Cabe in other threads whether the Shock Ease was actually made available in 1940 or 39, and that 39 was the advertisement year and patent year but not so sure about actually delivering a bike with one in 39.  Somewhat unclear, just like the numbers.
While your claim may or may not be true about the exact minute the shock-ease fork landed on a bike/frame displayed on a dealer floor,
it is not the most relevant piece of the puzzle or discussion regarding Shelby frames and serial numbers sir Saladmaster! Many shockease forks are on many frame types with many different serial number letters.  I have this info on my more complete list.  It may or may not help crack the code.  Add your bikes to the list!
AS.  Interesting manipulation/interpretation of the Swank guess..


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## saladshooter (Jan 15, 2021)

Not sure how anyone could possibly argue with a 1939 dealer catalog showing the shockEase as an option, - when there is no bonified way of dating these bikes (yet). What's the point of contention with going along with the dated material?

Just trying to provide accurate information here and not spread individual theories is all. Sorry for the offense Pete.


SKPC said:


> There is debate seen here on the Cabe in other threads whether the Shock Ease was actually made available in 1940 or 39, and that 39 was the advertisement year and patent year but not so sure about actually delivering a bike with one in 39.  Somewhat unclear, just like the numbers.
> While your claim may or may not be true about the exact minute the shock-ease fork landed on a bike/frame displayed on a dealer floor,
> it is not the most relevant piece of the puzzle or discussion regarding Shelby frames and serial numbers sir Saladmaster! Many shockease forks are on many frame types with many different serial number letters.  I have this info on my more complete list.  It may or may not help crack the code.  Add your bikes to the list!
> AS.  Interesting manipulation/interpretation of the Swank guess..


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## SKPC (Jan 15, 2021)

I'm with ya SS, no offense taken!  Could be 39 for the se fork, and your dated paper ads certainly suggest this. Not opposed to a paper ad proving your point. The more important question to ask in terms of narrowing  down the serial number mystery has to look deeper than what fork style was originally on the bike.  The shock ease fork may not decode the mystery I believe but may give us clues for sure.     It has to be based on a combination of numbers and letters that are determined by many (or not) different factors.  If a fork was added to a frame then put on a list, it could pollute it with a bad info.  I've been making notes as to the originality of the bike paint, fork and badge in my spreadsheet as I add new bikes I run across. I do have pics of each bike) on the list.  The restored higher end more rare tank bikes could be amalgams and pieced together, but maybe not. Hard to tell, but the labor would know.  Listing the bikes that always have had the fork on it will/may help, but difficult to do to begin with.  Polluting the list with bad data is very possible so trying to avoid that.
@saladshooter   We all know the springer was 39-40 to start with on Shelby's, but it may not tell the whole story about the serial number question. No one really "knows" much yet about the numbers, only good guesses, which is a great long-running story!  Are yours on the list yet?
Not even  Biden or Trump know anything about this unsolved mystery.


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