# COPPI "DALLA LIBERA" FRAME ('60s?)



## Jesper (May 6, 2021)

I am looking for information regarding this frame (year & builder). "DALLA LIBERA" decals, Fausto Coppi fork medallions. Campagnolo dropouts, seat post 27.0mm. 1960s? No later than very late 60s with that style fork crown.

Thank you


----------



## bulldog1935 (May 7, 2021)

it's going to take larger photos for us to see anything, though the Raleigh-style tubing fork crown is interesting


----------



## Jesper (May 7, 2021)

bulldog1935 said:


> it's going to take larger photos for us to see anything, though the Raleigh-style tubing fork crown is interesting



Sorry, I imported the photos from another device. I'll try again! The fork crown is quite fetching in my opinion with excellent workmanship.


----------



## dnc1 (May 8, 2021)

Dalla Libera was a famous Italian bike shop.
They may be the manufacturers,  or possibly,  the refurbishers of this frameset. 
Coppi frames from around 1960 definitely used this fork crown design.....


----------



## Jesper (May 12, 2021)

dnc1 said:


> Dalla Libera was a famous Italian bike shop.
> They may be the manufacturers,  or possibly,  the refurbishers of this frameset.
> Coppi frames from around 1960 definitely used this fork crown design.....
> View attachment 1406702




Thank you for that information. I got later a response from an Italian forum that said essentially the same thing. I was informed that Dalla Libera received new frames without decals (maybe paint too) and put their marque on them to sell locally. I had never heard of that name before. I assume Fiorelli was still doing the building of the Coppi frames at the time since they had the contract rights to build frames using the Coppi brand name. The fork "medallions" are concave  and seem to be inserted into the crown as opposed to the convex ones in the example shown by dnc1 which appear more as a cap on the crown.

I had just purchased another Coppi frame set (below, repainted), but a much later edition (late '80s) that has the Columbus "ESA" 6 flute tubing as used for a couple years by Colnago for their "Regal" and "ESA Mexico" frames. It is very similar to the Columbus "Profil" tubing used on the Colnago Nuovo Mexicos and Supers. It was listed as a "GILCO" frame, but is definitely not that tubing.


----------



## juvela (May 13, 2021)

-----

Hello Jesper,

Thank you for sharing these two framesets.

There are at least two distinct Coppi marques.

Your red example is clearly a product of Fratelli Fiorelli who was a Coppi sponsor at one point.

Regarding the tubular crown -

have puzzled over this without coming to any conclusions.  during the period of its employment it seems to have only been seen on the better models, yet not all of the better models received it.

here is an image of the Luxembourg star Charly Gaul riding for the Gozzola-Fiorelli team during the Giro d'Italia of 1961-




[it's difficult to see clearly in the photo but his cycle exhibits the tubular crown]

crown cap closeups -








another Coppi marque is that of "Fausto Coppi" which belongs to Fratelli Masciaghi.  this launched ~1980 and looks to be the origin for your white example.

some Coppi badged cycles were also produced by Giovanni Pelizzoli (also encountered spelt Pellizioli, Pellizoli), founder of CIOCC.  in 1980 he sold the CIOCC entity to Fratelli Masciaghi.  other Masciaghi owned marques include Girardengo, Gloria, Maranello & Masciaghi.

---

Coppi-Fiorelli cycles in the U.S. -

one U.S. agent for both badges was the John W. Murphy Co. of San Francisco

John W., "Jack" Murphy was a machine tool fellow from Vallejo California who spoke fluent Italian so it was natural for his business to be an agent for Italian produce

as best have been able to make out he seems to have operated the enterprise from the late 1960's through the early 1980's.

-----


----------



## Jesper (May 13, 2021)

Thank you @juvela for the history and differentiation between users of the Coppi name. I knew that there had been a change in the '80s, but I did not know the year. Did Pelizzoli actually build the F. Coppi frames, or just design the frames (or both)? I know he did a few "one-off" brands (?"Gion", and "John the Star"? ) that were essentially his side projects after selling off the Ciocc name and building frames under his own name.

I can guarantee that the white Fausto Coppi frame (that was its original badging) is not made by Pelizzoli due to the lesser quality workmanship; I have another similar frame to the white Coppi (Bandiziol) that is pretty much identical both in design and workmanship utilizing the same fluted tube set. I will probably post the white frame on its own thread and include the Bandiziol as another reference for a frame with that tube set which I have seen on at least two other frames other than Colnagos. I assume it was a contract builder who made them for various marques at the time after Colnago stopped using those fluted tubes. I think the Bandiziol is from '89, but a guess only based on the serial number (the white Coppi has no serial number).
It would appear that the Fiorelli and Coppi forks from the 50s-early 60's utilized the convex "cap" style fork embellishment as opposed to the concave inserted one on my frame. I will take a closer look at it and see what it actually looks like closer up when I take and post better photos.


----------



## juvela (May 13, 2021)

-----

Hello again Jesper,

your knowledge of Italian artisianal constructors vastly greater than mine own

in me digging found two statements regarding Giovanni and Coppi marked frames:

a) a statement that he did _some _without giving model name(s) or date(s)

b) a statement that he began _designing _the Masciaghi Coppi marked frames in 1993

btw - forgot to mention above that if Giovanni be yet upstanding he would likely be retired today.  he gives his birth time as early 1942 so he would be seventy-nine years of age now.

---

white frame -

forum member      @MauriceMoss      , master frame detective,  will be able to give some very solid information when you begin a thread on it

---

will look forward to good images of the red frame

may be able to share some information there...

-----


----------



## Jesper (May 18, 2021)

Here are some photos showing the details on this presumably '60s frame set.









 


*Attached FilesImage(s)*


----------



## juvela (May 19, 2021)

-----

thank you for the new pictures

have you come to any conclusion as to whether or not present finish is original, any other colour traces visible in spots such as steerer, shell interior, seat tube interior?

things which could suggest a later date or post-manufacture modification are the absence of eyelets on the frame ends, the under BB cable routing, water bottle mounts, brake cable guides and the lack of a hole in the gear hanger for the spring of the Campag Sport gear mech

have you found any markings on steerer?
does it exhibit the five helical ridges of one from A.L. Colombo?

have you been able to determine an intended pillar size?

headset appears OFMEGA - if original to the cycle it would suggest a midliner sort of model, OTOH the work is certainly nice...

brake centres could be a possible clue.  if, for example, designed for Universal 61's centres would be 56/64.  if designed for Extras (model 51) centres would be 51/64. and if designed for Super 68 centres would be 49/57.

thank you again

-----


----------



## Jesper (May 19, 2021)

juvela said:


> have you come to any conclusion as to whether or not present finish is original, any other colour traces visible in spots such as steerer, shell interior, seat tube interior?
> 
> things which could suggest a later date or post-manufacture modification are the absence of eyelets on the frame ends, the under BB cable routing, water bottle mounts, brake cable guides and the lack of a hole in the gear hanger for the spring of the Campag Sport gear mech
> 
> ...



Hi Juvela,

The steerer is Columbus with the 5 helical ribs. As far as I can tell, the paint is original; no other colors seen on the steerer or any other areas. Chipped finish shows only the red with no previous coats under it (excepting primer). I have rechecked the seat pin fit, as mentioned prior it fits a 27.0mm (easily, but not excessively loose) and a 27.2mm was a hard fit on a newer post. Reshaped the clamp lug and now a 27.2mm fits properly with clamp tabs spread to give a straight slot; concluded that the seat tube clamp was misshaped from use of an undersized post. No other (visible) markings on the frame other than the "53" on the BB shell and  the Campy dropout stamps. The frame size is: ST 53mm c-c/54.5mm c-t; TT 54.5mm c-c, 70mm BB shell.

The headset is OFMEGA, but not original; although I hate to judge a frame by its components since I have some high end frames that were fit with entry level components for one model, but the manufacturer also used the same frame fit with high end components for the top model (Crescent "Pepita" ["Valentino" gruppo] and "Pepita Special" ["Nuovo Record" gruppo] immediately come to mind; both with DB 531 frames and Nervex Pro lugs).

I am curious if someone knows when Columbus introduced their "SL" tubing; certainly was available in the early-mid 70s, but I am unaware if you could get it in the 60s or earlier. A seat post of 27.2mm is generally indicative of an "SL" tubed frame on my early 80s frames and earlier. I will try to remember to weigh the frame & fork once I've pressed the headset out.

I will also check the brakes and see if I can determine anything about that based on your input. I have all of those Universal models handy so it should be easy (if I interpret your #'s correctly); I wanted to use Mod. 68 on it. I have one of those Campy "Sport" (single pulley; is that the one?) RDs, but I think this frame was a bit above that level. I have a "Gran Sport" (50s-60s), "Record" (60s), and "Nuovo Record" (68-69) for RDs to install. I will try (at this point) to build up with all 60s gear excepting the BB assy where I will put in a Campy cartridge type and a Campy square taper chromed steel double crank set.


----------



## juvela (May 20, 2021)

-----

thanks very much for your very thorough response

minor note on the sometimes encountered small hole in the Campag gear hanger to accommodate the spring of the Sport model rear mech:

an expert over at BF writes that its disappearance comes in 1973

have witnessed irregularities of this in both directions

have seen frames/bikes which were clearly earlier than '73 which did not exhibit it

have seen frames/bikes clearly later than '73 which did exhibit it

the later case could of course be makers using up old stock

---

do not recognise the frame's lugs or bottom bracket shell

if they are Agrati it is a model with which am unfamiliar

---

perhaps another pair of eyes will be along to give more and better information regarding the frame

will send a PM to member            @MauriceMoss      he is likely to be able to enlighten...

-----


----------



## Jesper (Jun 9, 2021)

Note: "LATINA" on the decals refers to the region in Italy where the Dalla Libera shop was located. I did some research because I did not think it had anything to do with Spain. An Italian forum member corroborated as to the same. 

I have received info about the frame being from later 70s-early 80s due to braze-ons (could have been custom requested by original owner, or by the bike distributor), but the fork does not agree with that assessment (fork is original to the frame). I have yet to see an example with that style fork crown from the 70s or later; only examples have been from the 60s or earlier.


----------

