# Fresh from the barn, but what is it?



## Barkeep (Aug 21, 2011)

Traded an old .22 for this western flyer badged bike. I have a few classic bikes but this is my first skiptooth. Here are some as found pics im hoping can help some of the experts in identifiying my latest find.
Whats incorrect, year, model ect would be great....
First off the serial...







Side shot...





Front fender brace mount...





Neck and fork...





Peaked fenders...





Kick stand im not familier with...






Im currently uploading more pics, but the brake arm is stamped western flyer which I thought was odd.
Ill have more piccs up shortly


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## Barkeep (Aug 21, 2011)

Here are some more pics....

















 And you can barely see the western flyer stamped brake arm...


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## tony d. (Aug 21, 2011)

that kick stand has got to go  I don't know about the chain guard but the rest of it looks pritty O.G. it looks like a c.w.c. or roadmaster bike


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## Nirvana09 (Aug 22, 2011)

Lovely '65-'66 Beetle. Any more pics of that?


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## Barkeep (Aug 22, 2011)

Yeah the kickstands alittle much, but it is a wald with a pat# dating to 1935.
Im assumimg its a CWC made western flyer but if anyone can help me with year ect it would be appreciated.


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## scrubbinrims (Aug 22, 2011)

*kickstand*

I will buy that kickstand or trade you for a traditional vintage kickstand (mounts behind crank hanger)...I have about a dozen in a box to choose from.
Chris


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## twowheelfan (Aug 22, 2011)

*the stand is period.*

definately is an addition made early in the bike's life.


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## RMS37 (Aug 22, 2011)

Questions have come up on several fronts regarding these bikes recently. Regarding these two: 

(this one and  http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?17496-36-cwc )

Both are Cleveland Welding produced and the frame pattern is the later variation of their Double Bar Roadster model (DBR) which is what I refer to as a “rainbow” style balloon frame based on the parallel curved top tubes. 

The DBR style frames were among the first frames produced by CWC when they entered bicycle manufacturing in the fall of 1935 and variations of this design were produced by CWC at least as late as 1940. Using the model I developed, pairing serial numbers against projected build dates, I estimate that C94173 was produced in 1938.

There are a number of differences between the construction of the earliest and the later CWC DBR frames that can help date bikes even without knowing the serial number.

CWC redesigned the juncture of the seat stays and crank hanger for all their frames near the end of 1937 and this visually separates 1936 frames from 1937 frames. During 1937, the lower top tube was repositioned to allow more space between the two top tubes and a tank was manufactured to fit the new larger opening. The tank is hard to find. It is exclusive to CWC and to this frame and probably less than 5% of the DBR frames left the factory with a tank.

The swirl sprocket on both of these bikes was originally a CWC exclusive on the bicycles they produced for Western Autos, which was one of their largest clients. It is factory correct for the Western Flyer badged bike and was probably added to the other bike at some point in time. The horizontal placement of the holes on that frame suggest it may have originally been a Hawthorne but CWC marketed their bikes widely, especially in the early years so there are many other badges that might have been the original branding on the bike (I have an early DBR frame with a Ben Hur badge that has horizontal mounting holes.)

C94173 appears to be generally stock and original. The chain guard, the saddle, and the kickstand are all aftermarket additions. The bike would have originally used a CWC pattern braced dropstand and may not have been factory equipped with a chain guard.


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## DMNCLNR (Aug 22, 2011)

That kick stand is bad ass!!  My first car was a 66 Bahama blue beetle.. Nice bike and car


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## RMS37 (Aug 22, 2011)

I have a couple of those kickstands and I think they are cool. The one currently in use has worn detents so it is a bit hard to get it to lock positively in the down position. In general, function there always seems to be a trade off between kickstands and drop stands. The narrow base of drop stands makes them terrible in the grass (dropstand bikes tend to "faint" at LeMay if they aren't staked upright) and kickstands are choosy about finding a good setting on a slope. The biggest problem with these rear mount units is that the pivot point is not as near the center of the bicycle’s mass as it is with a standard kickstand so getting the bike to settle down takes a bit more work.


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## Boris (Aug 22, 2011)

Phil-
Gotta ask, will there ever be a book? I need some new reading material for the bathroom.


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## RMS37 (Aug 22, 2011)

That's what they said about the Sears Roebuck catalogs before indoor plumbing...And you know what happened to most of those!


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## Boris (Aug 22, 2011)

What? I've still got all my old ones. Anyhow, nice way to not answer the question. OR did you?


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## RMS37 (Aug 22, 2011)

I was just channeling my late mother’s stories about the fate of the Wishbook “down-home” (she grew up on a farm in Menlo WA without indoor plumbing or a ready supply of Charmin, the Sears Catalog was double duty not double ply.)

My next big undertaking in this hobby is going to building an annual “Virtual Vintage Bicycle Concours” on the back of the event we have held at LeMay for six years (as of next Saturday.) Between that, the actual Concours, the Seattle area Winter swap meet, and answering questions here and on the Rat site, my widely awaited book is still on a backburner and waiting for the right publishing advance to get me motivated!

In reality, I like answering questions because it makes me feel connected in the hobby. I have written a lot that I haven’t published but I find it harder to get motivated to finish and publish pieces that are written to an imaginary audience. It is also hard to put done to a piece on bicycle history because every day I learn something new and I am able to update and revise what I will write and have written, something that is much harder to do effectively when you produce a book in the classic paper and binding sense.


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## Barkeep (Aug 22, 2011)

Thank you so much for your wealth of knowledge and willingness to share it. Im also curious about the brake hub arm which is stamped western flyer and the hub which appears unmarked. Ill be updating this thread with more pictures ect as she gets cleaned up. Again, thank you for sharing your expertise.


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## Boris (Aug 22, 2011)

You'll notice, I didn't go into much detail about exactly how used my old catalogs were. Thank you for you honest explanation. I'm glad that you are enjoying what you are doing.


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## Barkeep (Aug 22, 2011)

Took a few things apart for cleaning and upon removal/cleaning of the rear hub I found this patent number on the brake arm...







Turns out to be a patent for a rear hub by musselman issued may 30 1933.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=dxZFAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&zoom=4&output=html


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## RMS37 (Aug 22, 2011)

The Western Flyer stamped brake arm is an interesting piece. Over time, several retailers had their names added to certain components including brake arms. Musselman hubs were closely linked to Racycle in the teens. During the thirties through the fifties they were generally standard issue on Murray built Elgins and in that application used special finned or spindle shells. Many of the ads for bicycle in the prewar years note that Morrow, Musselman and New Departure brand hubs were all optionally available, so this is likely a case of Western Autos arranging with both Musselman and CWC to include these hubs on the bikes they were selling at that time.


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## Barkeep (Aug 22, 2011)

That was my assumption as well. I like to put some associated pictures and whatnot for refrence in the thread. More to come as I dissassemble/clean.


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## scrubbinrims (Aug 22, 2011)

*Your hub is...*

Most likely a musselman if it is unmarked.
I have attached a pic from my Speigal Airman wheelset, with similar branding for a specific retailer.


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## Barkeep (Aug 24, 2011)

Bikes mostly dissassembled now, labeled, and a few "to be regreased" parts have been cleaned up. 









This bike is so caked up with barn dust/funk im in the prcess of cleaning. My plans are a clean up of the shiney bits that are peeking through, but the frame will just get a cleaning with no repaint. Its been painted once so ill let it keep its character for now. The rear rim has a small rust hole in the hoop so im figuring that out as id really like the matching dirty/dusty wheelset back on with the tires that I have for it. Any ideas for a hoop fix are welcomed. Also RMS37, if you happen to know the correct grips, seat and pedals that should be with the bike I would love to know. My goal for this one is for it to look as if it was leaned against the barn after its last ride, sat idle for 50+ years, then dusted off and ridden away. Photobucket is acting squirrley so I'll get some updated progress pics up tomorrow...


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## Barkeep (Sep 7, 2011)

Got everything apart and cleaned up. 









Frame ect came out great, still aged but clean. All my nice clean bearings awaiting reassembly.





Got a rear wheel without a chunk missing from a 39 cwc and some torringtons. Need a front wheel as mine is very bent if anyone has a surface rusted one they could part with.
Other than that reassembly will commence shortly.......


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## tony d. (Sep 8, 2011)

the back hub is a musselmen hub   

I'm going to put that front chain ring on my psyco truck if I can find a nice on


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## Barkeep (Sep 8, 2011)

Yeah, the hub that is og to the bike is a musselman. Ive found a 39 rear wheel with a new departure model d that I will run thats in the new wheel I picked up. Hopefully going to have some time today to put some things back together.

Also, how do I change the thread title? Would like to update it


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## Barkeep (Sep 9, 2011)

Progress thus far....











Temp front rim as im hoping to pick up a correct one soon. Also ill get some better pics up tom.


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