# Paglioli Cambio Corsa Bike



## Jesper (Aug 23, 2022)

After starting negotiations on this bike in January, paying in March, and having it shipped in July, it has finally arrived!






Sorry for the psyche out photo, but I need to get home before I break the box open. Apparently there are some surprises enclosed with the bike.
I should have detailed photos of it by the weekend since I would like to take it out for a spin ASAP!


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## dnc1 (Aug 24, 2022)

Welcome to the crazy club @Jesper.
Looking forward to the updates.


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## Freqman1 (Aug 24, 2022)

Looking forward to seeing another one of these! V/r Shawn


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## Jesper (Aug 25, 2022)

Starting to unwrap parts. The bike was completely disassembled except for removal of headset pressed-in parts, and hubs. Saves me some work, and saved a lot of cash related to shipping (about $120 from Italy) a complete bike.
Everything was individually wrapped so taking a bit of time, but happy for the diligence used in packing.

Here are the rods and axle releases. I'm not sure if the front and rear QR adjustment nuts are of the same vintage unless those gripping bolts were intended as different styles or the bolts on the front are replacements for lost originals. I would prefer the rear adjustment nut bolt style if anyone has some (functional condition is OK).
I also know there are different rod lengths (Corsa, and [later post '48?] Sport versions), but no reference as to a year, or which size was specific to each model (I assume the Corsa was shorter rods, but just a guess). I don't believe the Campy catalogs make any mention of the two versions.
I have measured both rods, and the axle release rod is approx. 28.4cm from upper bend at handle to the center of the QR rod assy. The shifter rod is approx. 14cm from bend to bend. Now we have some sort of length reference for one of the versions. I ask others to measure their rod lengths and see what sizes are out there, as well as providing the approx. year of the bike it is mounted on (if applicable).
I have not checked the drop-out tooth count yet so I don't know if it is the 17 or 19 tooth style.
All hardware thus far has been in very good condition; no rust except very little on the lower part of the shifter rod, the front QR lever and adjustment nut grip bolts.


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## Jake1 (Aug 25, 2022)

I was just reading this post when you updated; thanks for the detailed photos. I have never seen the Campagnolo quick releases with those nuts on them. Any idea when they changed to the "D" ring?
Really looking forward to seeing this all together; very intrigued!


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## Jesper (Aug 26, 2022)

Brake calipers are both Universal, but are different models and also of different reach (about 25mm); different return springs, etc. Front caliper stamped "UNIVERSAL BREV"; rear caliper stamped "UNIVERSAL BREV361666" or "361556" (not a great stamp!). I guess the rear may be a model 39; the front I have no idea (some pivot bolt hardware not OE). Hodge-podge of pads installed.
Calipers are quite lightweight, but the arms seem thin in crossection. I have not used an alloy Universal brake with that long of a reach, but I don't think it would be a great feel when braking hard.
The Ambrosio rims are old, but not sure if they are OE or period correct (unable to date decals; suspect '70s) so I'll see which caliper is most appropriate regarding reach. I have a very nice Mod. 51 set that would look good if reach is correct, and they would be relatively correct for the bike's age if I can't match up a proper pair.


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## Freqman1 (Aug 26, 2022)

Just off the top of my head I believe the front QRis of a newer vintage. I thought we had the measurements of the shifter rods in the Cambio thread? Lastly I believe the correct brakes for these bikes are the Model 39 (361666). V/r Shawn


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## Jesper (Aug 26, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> Just off the top of my head I believe the front QRis of a newer vintage. I thought we had the measurements of the shifter rods in the Cambio thread? Lastly I believe the correct brakes for these bikes are the Model 39 (361666). V/r Shawn



Thanks Shawn,
I'll check the "cambio" thread for length info. I might have a loose mod. 39 caliper, but it may not be the front. Maybe the pivot bolt from the short reach caliper could be used. I do have a Universal steel set (calipers and levers) that have the 361666 pat.# on them. They look quite good, but are heavy.

Edit: I now have been educated by the "Cambio Corsa Community" as to the specifics regarding differences between 2 lever system using short and long handles/levers but still having the same effective rod length for "Corsa" and "Sport" variants. The "Paris-Roubaix" single rod system employs long and short rod versions, but the handle/lever length remained the same.


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## dnc1 (Aug 26, 2022)

Jake1 said:


> I was just reading this post when you updated; thanks for the detailed photos. I have never seen the Campagnolo quick releases with those nuts on them. Any idea when they changed to the "D" ring?
> Really looking forward to seeing this all together; very intrigued!



The first catalogue with the 'D-ring' is the 1951 edition I believe.....


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## dnc1 (Aug 26, 2022)

In the 1950 'Bozzi' catalogue they were still offering the "dog-bone" version.....





In 1950 it seems that the style of "dog-bone" screw was still the same as the very first examples.
I'm wondering if your front hub @Jesper has simply had the original bolts replaced with those flatter versions at some point by a previous owner,  for whatever reason.


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## Jesper (Aug 26, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> In the 1950 'Bozzi' catalogue they were still offering the "dog-bone" version.....
> View attachment 1685791
> 
> 
> ...



The bolts on the front QR nut are the same as many Campy bolts used on other components (clamps, etc.).
I think they are actual Campy hardware, but were just used as replacements for lost OE hardware.
I have only seen the "dog bone" style before.
I think the front and rear hubs are original, but laced to much newer rims (post early 60s). Steel barrel and alloy flange; need to verify if they are Campy, or F.B. branded as Campy which would get us closer to an age range due to the change over to Campy making their own hubs.
Any idea as to the age of the rims? Two Ambrosio "High Pressure" examples shown on velobase site: red/silver decal, and yellow/red decal; but no reference to any year or decade.


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## Jesper (Aug 27, 2022)

Sorry for getting frame photo'd last. It was entombed in bubble wrap amd a whole roll of packing tape!

Enclosed with the frame were some original Paglioli decals, but I don't think they would be able to be transfered to another surface without possible disintegration.
The frame isn't really rusty, but there has been extensive wear to the finish resulting in bare metal.
I would love to make this bike more aethetically pleasing, but I would hate to lose the original livery decals which have survived better than the paint surprisingly. My head badge is being sent with the Giuletta frameset and some other misc. parts so it may be some time before badge and frame are "remarried".


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## cyclingday (Aug 27, 2022)

Oh, yeah!
No need to do anything cosmetically.
It shows it’s wonderful age beautifully.
Just a little 3in1 oil to breath some life back into the paint/decals and protect the bare areas, and you’re good.


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## Jesper (Aug 27, 2022)

Here are the "decals". 2 (F LLI PAGLIOLI) appear to be for stays or maybe top tube. The large "PAGLIOLI" seems to be a printed logo on standard paper, and is not a decal. The "Fabb. Art. Decalcomanie" I would assume to be the printer, but I could not find it online.


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## Jesper (Aug 27, 2022)

Some measurements: seat post (steel) 26.8mm, seat tube 53cm c-c, top tube 55.5cm c-c, head tube 12cm, rear fork 125mm, BB shell 70mm.

Original parts: Campy Cambio Corsa shifting system (d-o's have 15 teeth in slot, and 4 in front I assume for the installion purposes), F.B. hubs (with Campy logo barrels, very smooth function), Campy TT clamp-on cable guides, unknown seat post binder clamp (Agrati?; clamp hardware is replacement).

Replacement parts: cranks & BB (Sugino), pedals (cheap block; left them in Italy to reduce shipping weight),  leather & plastic saddle (unknown brand, but probably Italian; and interesting because it has a tensioner in the nose of a plastic shell saddle), Regina "Extra" 4 speed block 16-18-20-22 (has "82" stamped on it; bevelled teeth), KMC "Z" chain (ex. condition, narrow), Ambrosio "High Pressure" rims (I assume they are "3t" made Ambrosios circa 70s), handlebar (3t Mod. Gran Prix, latter model w/center sleeve; late 70s-80s? Bar looks nearly new!), 70mm stem (old "3ttt" logo, Record?; late 70s- early 80s), one Universal brake caliper (a member here states Universal mod. 39 should be correct model).
Not sure what the headset is yet, but it is in good condition.

The wear on the freewheel is only on one cog. I assume this is a common occurrence due to folks not wanting to shift very often (smallest gear unused). I do believe having a bevelled tooth FW would be of great benefit by providing smoother and quicker shifting, and allow you to get your hand back in place on the bar. Also, the KMC chain should be more quiet with the shallow pin profile; but I should use a standard width chain for the 4 speed. I won't know until I try it out.


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## Jesper (Aug 27, 2022)

I have nothing to install as far as a period crankset goes. My early Campy 151 bcd sets are double rings. I'd be curious to see what would happen with a fairly close ratio ring pairing (52/48). Would the chain slack be able to be removed when riding on the smaller ring? Could a chain tensioner be employed?
My immediate plan is to put in a cartridge BB if I have an Italian unit of the proper spindle length. I'll see where the chainline sits with the Sugino BB (114mm) installed to verify proper spindle length since with it being a replacement there is no guarantee that the proper length was used upon replacing the previous BB.


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## dnc1 (Aug 28, 2022)

cyclingday said:


> Oh, yeah!
> No need to do anything cosmetically.
> It shows it’s wonderful age beautifully.
> Just a little 3in1 oil to breath some life back into the paint/decals and protect the bare areas, and you’re good.



I agree, wonderful patina, but no rust issues, just carefully clean.



Jesper said:


> I have nothing to install as far as a period crankset goes. My early Campy 151 bcd sets are double rings. I'd be curious to see what would happen with a fairly close ratio ring pairing (52/48). Would the chain slack be able to be removed when riding on the smaller ring? Could a chain tensioner be employed?
> My immediate plan is to put in a cartridge BB if I have an Italian unit of the proper spindle length. I'll see where the chainline sits with the Sugino BB (114mm) installed to verify proper spindle length since with it being a replacement there is no guarantee that the proper length was used upon replacing the previous BB.



I don't think it would be able to take up the slack on the smaller ring to be useable. 
I'm sure you'll be able to find a suitable Magistroni,  Way-Assauto,  Gnutti or other chainset from Italy; a Campagnolo chainset probably wasn't available anyway when your bicycle was manufactured.


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## Jesper (Aug 28, 2022)

I have a NOS Veloce BB measuring 115.5mm so that should work if the chainline is good.
I'll still look for a period correct crankset, but need something reliable without the fuss right now.
I suppose I could use a double spider, but mount only the out ring.


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## Jesper (Aug 28, 2022)

A little more research relating to bike's age yielded that Campy dropped F.B. as maker of the 2 piece alloy/steel hubs in '52 (referenced from "The Original  CAMPAGNOLO Timeline").
Knowing this I would guess that the bike is no older than 1953 ('54 at absolute latest); but I tend to think it would more than likely to be from '52 or earlier. There isn't much to date it without some more original parts.
The Mod. 39 brake caliper was used through the 40s into the 50s so no help with dating there, and that assumes it to be the original part.
Possibly the lugs can be put into a time frame when commonly used by builders.
This brings into question as to the history behind the brand. It's from Modena, but I don't know if the Paglioli name relates to a shop brand, a framebuilder's name, and/or a small artisan framebuilding/bicycle company. On the decals that came with it, I would assume that the "F LLI PAGLIOLI" is for Fratelli Paglioli; but again that doesn't give any indication as to who made the frame.
 I can't make any sense of the BB shell and fork steerer stamps other than as a way to match a frame with its fork during painting/assembly.


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## Jesper (Aug 28, 2022)

May as well put this image in since I should be receiving it shortly with more parts.


I'll just mount it as is since I don't know what the colors are, and it would blend in better with the rest of the bike's patina.


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## Jesper (Aug 28, 2022)

Xxx


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## Jesper (Sep 4, 2022)

Does anyone know if the Campy spoke guard rings for Cambio Corsa and Paris-Roubaix are interchangeable? Are the 4 spd and 5 spd rings interchangeable for the "CC"? Is there any difference between the diameters of 4 and 5 spd versions; are they dished differently?
I have a 4 spd FW and I can get the Campy 6 spoke (5 spd stamped on outer ring) version, Campy 6 spoke (no spec's stamped on it) version, and a REG variant that is not specified as per the rear cluster size. Has anyone used the REG substitute guard? I am not above using a non-Campy brand guard (chromed steel, alloy, but no plastic unless no other option) as long as it fits well, and the RD cage can't catch on it.
 I am entertaining installing a chain tensioner idler pulley to see how it shifts without worrying about releasing the hub. I would also be curious to try a double ring on the front with a rod actuated FD and utilizing the tensioner either with or without having to release the hub. 
I would not necessarily leave any modifications in place, but it would be nice to know the limitations of the shifting system in partnership with a front changer, and if a basic tensioner can relieve one of having to release your hub when shifting.

The tensioner unit is from the 60s (?) and is made for mopeds. It has about 4mm of lateral play; not sure it that is enough combined with chain flex to provide smooth and fairly quiet operation. I might replace the OE smooth steel pulley with a plastic toothed pulley to improve performance and quiet it down even more.


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## dnc1 (Sep 5, 2022)

I've recently installed the 'REG' guard on my 3-speed  Cambio Corsa 'Cicli Vecchi' it fitted very well and kind of suits the early 3-speed type. 
The 4-speed or 5-speed stamped Campagnolo type wouldn't be right for mine.....




...it works well, protecting the spokes if th chain derails off the low gear sprocket, which is vary easily done on a Cambio Corsa system.
It doesn't look too large in size either with the 21 tooth low gear sprocket on this W. A. cluster.


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## Jesper (Sep 5, 2022)

@dnc1 thanks for the info. I wonder if the unmarked Campy one I saw was a 3 spd part. It was the most expensive one anyways ($175), compared with the Campy 5 spd and REGs which were $70-$90. Now I wonder if the REG would still work for the 4 speed if the 3 spd Campy won't, but the REG works for your 3 spd. 
Do you know why the 4 or 5 speed Campy versions would not work for your application? 
Not being able to see it, is your REG their 5 (or 10 I guess) spoke design?


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## dnc1 (Sep 6, 2022)

Jesper said:


> @dnc1 thanks for the info. I wonder if the unmarked Campy one I saw was a 3 spd part. It was the most expensive one anyways ($175), compared with the Campy 5 spd and REGs which were $70-$90. Now I wonder if the REG would still work for the 4 speed if the 3 spd Campy won't, but the REG works for your 3 spd.
> Do you know why the 4 or 5 speed Campy versions would not work for your application?
> Not being able to see it, is your REG their 5 (or 10 I guess) spoke design?



I didn't say they wouldn't work.
What I meant when I said the 4 & 5-speed versions wouldn't be right for mine is purely the fact that they have inappropriate wording on them in relation to my 3-speed cluster.
I think they are all pretty similar in dimensions,  but I can't say this for definite. 
This is my version.....











...it's the 5 (or 10) spoke version as you can see.


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## Jesper (Sep 6, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> SI didn't say they wouldn't work.
> What I meant when I said the 4 & 5-speed versions wouldn't be right for mine is purely the fact that they have inappropriate wording on them in relation to my 3-speed cluster.
> I think they are all pretty similar in dimensions,  but I can't say this for definite.



Sorry for misinterpreting, and thanks for the dimensions! I just found some NOS REGs like yours for $20 stateside so shipping is low. My FW low gear is 22t. I'll measure the diameter shortly and see what the difference is. I would personally like a guard that reaches the RD cage, but it would need to be quite large- 6"-7" ('70s 10 spd touring styles). I might also get one of those just to check it out since they only run $5-$10 for decent chromed guards. Still will keep an eye out for a lesser cost Campy one for future build-up with more OE/period parts. I need another REG for my '36 with the Simplex (Super Champion/Osgear style) rear changer.
Yours looks like it would be fine for my gear size.


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## Jesper (Sep 8, 2022)

I ended up getting a Sun Tour spoke guard circa '70s; 4.75" diameter. When installed it won't look much different than the OE Campy or the REG. Cost $8 so no real loss if it doesn't work out.




Edit: photo credit: from velobase entry-eBay Seller coffeeride (side note: good seller!)


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## Jesper (Sep 18, 2022)

So no sooner did I receive my Sun Tour spoke guard, and one of my Italian suppliers found me a very nice Campy guard stamped for 5 speeds at a killer price compared to what I saw elsewhere. Now it is enroute from Italy with some drilled NOS Universal levers to spice up the cockpit a bit.

My freewheel is 4 speed; but given the fact that my frame has the longer d-o's I am curious if I can use a 5 spd FW or was that only possible with the "P-R" single rod model.  changer? My guy has an NOS in box "P-R" unit complete, but no guard. I assumed the guard I got may have been from that NIB unit if the guard was supposed to be included with the set-up.


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## Freqman1 (Sep 18, 2022)

I'll try to get pics of the spoke guards on mine. I know I have at least two different styles and possibly more. V/r Shawn


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## Jesper (Sep 18, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> I'll try to get pics of the spoke guards on mine. I know I have at least two different styles and possibly more. V/r Shawn



Thanks Shawn! Do you have a longer d-o equipped bike with a 5 spd using the cambio corsa (2 rod)? I'm not trying to push the limits of operation just curious because it would be nice to match the guard with the a 5spd FW.
An odd thing about my ring being delivered is that it has no Campagnolo stamp, only the 5 spd designation. I am thinking that it is significantly later in its year of manufacture. Later 50s or 60s maybe?


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## Freqman1 (Sep 18, 2022)

Jesper said:


> Thanks Shawn! Do you have a longer d-o equipped bike with a 5 spd using the cambio corsa (2 rod)? I'm not trying to push the limits of operation just curious because it would be nice to match the guard with the a 5spd FW.
> An odd thing about my ring being delivered is that it has no Campagnolo stamp, only the 5 spd designation. I am thinking that it is significantly later in its year of manufacture. Later 50s or 60s maybe?



Jesper I believe all of my Cambio bikes are four speeds and the levers are all the same. I'll have to check my P-R bikes to see how many speeds they are. It will be the end of the month before I get to it though-I have two cars I'm trying to get situated right now. V/r Shawn


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## Jesper (Oct 2, 2022)

Here is the spoke guard I got that is purported to be Campagnolo. It matches the 6 spoke design, but has no manufacturer marks other than being designated for 5 gears ("PER 5 PIGNONI"). 
Looking at catalogues from the 50s shows markings for gear and company; catalogues from the 60s show no markings at all, and 70s catalogues do not show the item listed anymore. No rust and low cost so if it is a Campagnolo clone it'a good one, and it won't be obvious when mounted.

120mm diameter, 35mm bore diameter


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