# Junior Safety Identification Help Please!



## New Mexico Brant (Oct 8, 2017)

I am trying to identify the maker of this early pnuematic tire junior safety bicycle.  At the swap a couple people independently said 1894-95.  One person felt it was Pope/Columbia but a couple other people felt it maybe made by a different maker.  I haven't been able to find any Columbia bikes with the double bars at the bottom of the frame.  There is an interesting rubber block at the bottom of the seat mast - bottom bracket area.  My guess the thought behind this is that it would absorb vibration for a smoother ride?  I doubt this would have been very effective but so many ideas were being tried out at that time.  The rims are 24.75 inches in diameter (for 28 inch tires).  Thank you for any help.  Kindly, Brant


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## Ed Minas (Oct 8, 2017)

Interesting safety.  I wonder if it always had 26" inchers.  There is quite a gap between top of fork and rim even if tires were installed.  It is also interesting that there is no bar to tie the down stays together.  

Thanks fir sharing.


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## New Mexico Brant (Oct 8, 2017)

Ed Minas said:


> Interesting safety.  I wonder if it always had 26" inchers.  There is quite a gap between top of fork and rim even if tires were installed.  It is also interesting that there is no bar to tie the down stays together.
> 
> Thanks fir sharing.



I guess it is possible it had different wheels; these appear to have on the bicycle for ages.  I have included photos of an interesting rim feature; both rims have built-in hooks to secure the valve stems.  Has anyone ever seen this feature before?  I have added some other detail images as well.


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## Ed Minas (Oct 8, 2017)

What awesome rim detail.  Love the valve stem keepers.  Wouldn't it have been great to be alive in 1896 and see the amazing innovations as sold in the day.


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## fordmike65 (Oct 8, 2017)

New Mexico Brant said:


> I guess it is possible it had different wheels; these appear to have on the bicycle for ages.  I have included photos of an interesting rim feature; both rims have built-in hooks to secure the valve stems.  Has anyone ever seen this feature before?  I have added some other detail images as well.
> 
> View attachment 689172
> View attachment 689174
> ...



That is unreal!!!


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## Jesse McCauley (Oct 9, 2017)

I'm pretty confident this is a juvenile sized frame to fit the 26" wheels after looking at it in person for a perverse amount of time. Sexy bike. 

The tires were likely the larger variety of single tube filling out that gap well. 

Really looking forward to seeing this one cruising! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hoofhearted (Oct 9, 2017)

*Am lovin' this sassy li'l beast ........

Almost wish I had never seen it ... and now
it has become my White Whale.

Aarrrgh !!

.........  patric

*


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## New Mexico Brant (Oct 9, 2017)

hoofhearted said:


> *Am lovin' this sassy li'l beast ........
> 
> Almost wish I had never seen it ... and now
> it has become my White Whale.
> ...




Two days adrift, luffing about on the macadam seas.  Nothing but the occasional woggin amongst the iron & steel pack ice to satisfy the hunter’s thirst.  

And then, the horizon crested, behold...  It was as if I sighted a mighty Leviathan!

The harpoon flew.  The prize was taken, swift and clean.

Triumphant, I entered the Fiddler’s Green!


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## New Mexico Brant (Oct 20, 2017)

So yesterday I was examining my new toy and found "BX" stamped on the bottom bracket.  This bicycle is full of little surprises.  "Gimmicks were the rule of the day." quoting: _G. Donald Adams, __Collecting and Restoring Antique Bicycles _  The first images show details of the bottom bracket area with the rubber block which I am guessing is an idea to absorb vibrations.  The last photos show leather wrapped around the chain ring teeth; was this to reduce vibrations, prevent wear, or act as an oil delivery mechanism?  Any thoughts?  If anyone has a catalog showing a model similar to this please share.
Kindly,  Brant


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## Brian R. (Oct 20, 2017)

The area where the seat tube, top tube, and seat stays meet along with the seat post tightening bolt looks a lot like my 1896 Hartford (Pope product). However, when I was researching that bike I found many British and French bikes that looked very similar. I've spent at least an hour and a half looking through Hartford & Columbia images on Google hoping for that eureka moment when I find the double down tubes, but no luck, sorry.

It definitely has an early/mid '90s look to it. Although it has pneumatic rims, stay open to the possibility that it started life as a hard or cushion tire safety and was converted early on. Given the horizontal top tube I'm probably wrong but thought I'd mention it.


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## Brian R. (Oct 21, 2017)

The top tube is not horizontal, it just looks that way in the photo because of the stand under the rear wheel. I think a sloped top tube increases the possibility that it's from the early 1890s. Pope started up Hartford in 1890 I think.


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## carlitos60 (Oct 21, 2017)

That Beast is Out of This World!!!
Love the Whole Bike, But Specially the Seat!!
Was it for Sale??


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## New Mexico Brant (Oct 21, 2017)

Brian R. said:


> The top tube is not horizontal, it just looks that way in the photo because of the stand under the rear wheel. I think a sloped top tube increases the possibility that it's from the early 1890s. Pope started up Hartford in 1890 I think.



Thanks again for your insight Brian; you are correct, the top tube is angled down a bi.t when the bike is off the stand.  I share your frustration as I haven't found another example with the double down tubes.  How were the early Hartford's badged?  There are no holes for a badge but if you look at the sixth picture down, a halo/ghost shape is visible on the head tube; guessing the bike had a decal here?


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## New Mexico Brant (Oct 21, 2017)

carlitos60 said:


> That Beast is Out of This World!!!
> Love the Whole Bike, But Specially the Seat!!
> Was it for Sale??



Thank you for your kind words!  Sorry, it isn't for sale; I walked miles at the Hershey Swap, it was worth it to find this bicycle.


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## Brian R. (Oct 22, 2017)

Brant, I'm still working on it. Can you post some measurements please: seat tube, head tube, and pedal cranks?


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## New Mexico Brant (Oct 22, 2017)

Brian R. said:


> Brant, I'm still working on it. Can you post some measurements please: seat tube, head tube, and pedal cranks?



The head tube measures: 7 1/4 inches, the seat tube: 23 inches (from the very top, to the metal plate on the bottom just under the rubber block), the cranks: 8 1/8 inches (end to end), 7 " (from the center of the pedal axis to the crank axis).  The ghost label/badge outline is approx. 2 1/2 " tall (see drawing).  Thank you again for your time and interest in trying to identify this bicycle.  I ordered tires yesterday.


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## tripple3 (Oct 23, 2017)

New Mexico Brant said:


> I ordered tires yesterday.



Awesome!
I would like to see this out there being ridden; both feet on the coaster pegs bombing down a hill.....


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## bricycle (Oct 23, 2017)

looks like a Miller High Life bike (badge)
Awesome find!


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## New Mexico Brant (Oct 23, 2017)

tripple3 said:


> Awesome!
> I would like to see this out there being ridden; both feet on the coaster pegs bombing down a hill.....



Exactly!  That is my hope, as long as I can get some tires that work out with it.  The first pair were too big.


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## Jesse McCauley (Nov 2, 2017)

Found an original advert for that neeto leather strap wrapped around the chainwheel. 
Ad hails from 1898 Good Roads


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## Dan the bike man (Nov 2, 2017)

I found my first Junior size TOC bike this year. It's a  St. Nicholas. To me Some parts of it look kind of like yours @New Mexico Brant  what do you think? Only thing not original on mine is leather was redone.


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## New Mexico Brant (Nov 15, 2017)

So today I tried the Robert Dean 28 by 1 3/4 inch tires that arrived.  They fit the rims perfectly!   I need to work out some issues with the rear bearings and have a donor seat recovered and this bicycle will be ready for the road.


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## New Mexico Brant (May 10, 2019)




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