# 1940 Umberto Dei resurrection thread



## petritl (Jan 8, 2018)

I’m beginning the process of bringing back a frame set I purchased a couple of months ago.

Bike will be a 4spd with an early Cyclo derailleur .

The frame and fenders were dropped off to be painted (RAL 5013)


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## bulldog1935 (Jan 9, 2018)

Nice frame and gorgeous chainset.  

looking forward to progress, Tad.  Can you show photos of bars and parts you have collected?


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## dnc1 (Jan 10, 2018)

I purchased an early, 2-speed Cyclo standard model derailleur at the weekend. How many speeds is your example for?
It will be good to see how your project progresses. That's a lovely frame, even the pump pegs are a work of art! True quality.


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## bulldog1935 (Mar 3, 2018)

petritl said:


> ...
> View attachment 735361
> ...



Progress report on the Mussolini bike?  Have you sized up your shifter boss to determine if it's French or English?  I can bring a Huret shifter to check.
If it's English, French will be too tight - if it's French, Cyclo shifter will rattle free.  
The RD will only care the number of cables required to operate it.


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## petritl (Mar 3, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> Progress report on the Mussolini bike?  Have you sized up your shifter boss to determine if it's French or English?  I can bring a Huret shifter to check.
> If it's English, French will be too tight - if it's French, Cyclo shifter will rattle free.
> The RD will only care the number of cables required to operate it.




This project has been at a stand still since the frame and fenders are in IL waiting on me to come after them on 3/12.

My friend who picked up the parts for me said the dark blue looks great; I’m anxious to see it for myself


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## juvela (Mar 4, 2018)

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You mention a plan to build with Cyclo four speed drive train. 

Will it be 1/8" or 3/32"?

Chainwheel teeth will be the guide here...

Does the integral headset employ floating U races?  

These usually take 1/8" ball.

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## 99 bikes (Mar 5, 2018)

Fantastic! Please post photos when you can, especially setting up the Cyclo. I'm getting ready to dig into my Cyclo equipped touring machine very soon and I could use the inspiration.


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## bulldog1935 (Mar 6, 2018)

That bike would be the ultimate Condorino with the right bars


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## petritl (Mar 11, 2018)

I picked up my frame and fenders today. I can’t wait to get it back home and start building it.


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## petritl (Mar 20, 2018)

I purchase a chaincase off of an older Umberto Dei frame last weekend, it came with me to Peoria, I received same day service at the powdercoater that did the frame and fenders, I delivered the case to a pinstriper to apply the copper metallic to the ribbed section to match the fenders.


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## juvela (Mar 21, 2018)

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There is a good possibility that the cycle's chainguard was manufactured by Mazzucchelli.


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## non-fixie (Mar 22, 2018)

Wonderful project. Great color. Looking forward to the result.


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## petritl (Mar 22, 2018)

A little tinkering today.

The interval run cable were a pain, I hope to never have to do that again. I was hoping to upgrade to a 4 spd freewheel but I don’t think it is going to fit.

Long term a set wheels with FB or early Campagnolo hubs with clincher rims would be nice but for now these Pryor high flange double lightened hubs with tubular tires will have to work.


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## petritl (Mar 22, 2018)

Additional pics


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## bulldog1935 (Mar 22, 2018)

what's the OLD (dropout spacing) on your frame/ rear axle?

My custom Phil hub on my Lenton - 115mm OLD - lets me use a 5sp freewheel on my Lenton (could fit an Ultra6 in there, as well)




It's the standard Phil freewheel hub - the custom part was the axle stubs I needed with 8mm bolts to fit my dropout slots - the axle stubs could be made to whatever width you need.
8mm are also your bolt size (or close enough to 3/8" - but the point being smaller than the 10-11mm axle ends on every other modern hub)



this way, could make the rear whatever you want with one custom hub, and keep the stock hub in front.

Not perfect perspective, but you can kind of see here I have big air between the freewheel and drive-side dropout


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## bulldog1935 (Mar 24, 2018)

petritl said:


> ...View attachment 775280



between these two, I'd definitely go with the Cyclo


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## petritl (Apr 1, 2018)

Work has been slow; my friend Ed came by today with his artistic eye and applied the logos.

I decided to go with function over form and ordered a Campagnolo claw to use a Nouvo Record rear derailleur.

The fenders have been a challenge, a fender stay broke when I removed them from the fenders before powder coating. I couldn’t find replacement so I purchase a set of 380mm stainless stays then cut and threaded them; still need a bunch of adjusting.


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## juvela (Apr 1, 2018)

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Thanks very much for the update.

Great to see she is moving right along.

Paint and transfers quite nice.

See she wears a mixed hub set, at least for now, of Nuovo Tipo large flange front paired with Record small flange rear.

Was it necessary to open the axle slots in the fork ends to accept the hollow axle?

The asian steel brake mounting washer looks slightly out of place there on the rear.  Appears caliper's pivot bolt has been replaced with a low end asian one such as Cherry or Chang Star in order to get rid of the corrosion.

Good work with the project.  Look forward to next update.

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## bulldog1935 (Apr 1, 2018)

Tad, measure your pump pegs - I have a beautiful silver Tornado pump that may fit.

ps - I think I talked Tad into the condorino bars...


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## petritl (Apr 1, 2018)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> Thanks very much for the update.
> 
> ...



You have a good eye; the bike has different wheels, I was figuring out which set to run. The small flange Record wheel has a 700C rim and a 36mm tire; the large flange has a 27” rim with a 1.25” tire, both QR axles fit in the dropouts without modification, I prefer the look of the high flange hubs with 27” rim and the brakes fit better; will most likely run them and considering a solid axle conversion.

The universal calipers were missing the hardware, the Asian washer came out of a spare parts bin, I felt it was better than running a flat washer against the round bridge.


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## juvela (Apr 1, 2018)

petritl said:


> You have a good eye; the bike has different wheels, I was figuring out which set to run. The small flange Record wheel has a 700C rim and a 36mm tire; the large flange has a 27” rim with a 1.25” tire, both QR axles fit in the dropouts without modification, I prefer the look of the high flange hubs with 27” rim and the brakes fit better; will most likely run them and considering a solid axle conversion.
> 
> The universal calipers were missing the hardware, the Asian washer came out of a spare parts bin, I felt it was better than running a flat washer against the round bridge.




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Thanks very much for the response.

Are you confident of the bicycle's original wheel size?

I apologize, do not recall if you got wheels with the frame.

Going by its condorino type I had assumed it would have been built for 650B.

In any case it is good to read there is room to run 27's with mudguards.  Gives you options for tyre size.

And wheels easily changed out if you wish to experiment with another size down the road.

One wheel size indication would be where the brake pads are in the adjustment slots when perfectly fitted.

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@bulldog1935 -

Is your frame pump marked Torpado or is it marked Tornado?  Only asking because there is a brand of frame pump called Tornado.  It is one of several badges belonging to the french firm AFA, makers of Zefal products.




 
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## petritl (Apr 1, 2018)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> Thanks very much for the response.
> 
> ...




I don’t know what the original wheel was;!it had a set of FB track hubs with tubular wheels when I purchased it.


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 1, 2018)

definitely Tornado, the original Zefal - mind burp - it's also Mint.

Most condorinos were made 28".








I have the Afa pump on my Lenton, because it was the only correct size I could find - it's also a very good pump


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## juvela (Apr 1, 2018)

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The lugset on the Doniselli is the Agrati "ROMA"  pattern - good looking bicycle!

Purchased one of their truing stands back when I first got into cycle work.

They were a large distributor of parts, accessories and tools at one time.

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## petritl (Apr 1, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> Tad, measure your pump pegs - I have a beautiful silver Tornado pump that may fit.
> 
> ps - I think I talked Tad into the condorino bars...




point of braze-on to point is 39.5cm


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 1, 2018)

petritl said:


> point of braze-on to point is 39.5cm



Perfection, 42cm, compresses to 39.0 including stored presta tube boss (all NOS).
I'll sell it to you for what I paid, and I'll eat shipping cost from Europe.
@juvela
Doniselli (like Umberto Dei) is still making very nice bikes, including this 28" rod-brake roadster, Afline hub, 1300euros


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 2, 2018)

petritl said:


> ...
> 
> 
> ...]



Tad, I can give you a tip on shaping compound curves in your fenders.  To get a tighter radius, spread the sides - work your way down every inch .
To get a larger radius, the opposite - squeeze the sides in.


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## petritl (Apr 2, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> Tad, I can give you a tip on shaping compound curves in your fenders.  To get a tighter radius, spread the sides - work your way down ever inch .
> To get a larger radius, the opposite - squeeze the sides in.




Thank You!


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 2, 2018)

the front fender on my International was the S-shaped fender removed from my wrecked Grand Prix.
Of course, it's aluminum rather than steel.  But I was happy to shape it enough to work.





I've done the same shaping with the plastic fenders on my Lenton, but they're easier in a way - you heat them with a blow drier.  The tricky part there is hitting the working temperature but not heating all the way to the liquidus.


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## petritl (Apr 2, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> the front fender on my International was the S-shaped fender removed from my wrecked Grand Prix.
> Of course, it's aluminum rather than steel.  But I was happy to shape it enough to work.
> 
> View attachment 781506
> ...



Ron,
It sounds like you are applying for the job of fitting the fenders in which you are more than qualified


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 2, 2018)

I was trying to give you encouragement - it can be done right


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## petritl (Apr 15, 2018)

I’ve been on the road with work for the last couple of weeks but was able to pickup the chaincase from a pinstriper in IL; he got a little fancier than I had wanted but it looks ok.

Now I just need to assemble the collected parts


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 15, 2018)

yee-haw - get that bike pedaling


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## juvela (Apr 15, 2018)

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Thanks for this update!

Great to see Umbi moving right along - won't be long now.

Have you been able to determine the maker of his chainset, found any markings?

Presently leaning toward Way-Assauto.

Learned recently that Prior was a badge belonging to Maillard.  Pedals were also produced under this name.

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## petritl (Apr 21, 2018)

I had a little time to tinker on the bike this evening. The fender stays still need some attention as well as the chain case because the chain rubs when in the top gear.


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 22, 2018)

outstanding


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## petritl (Apr 22, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> Tad, measure your pump pegs - I have a beautiful silver Tornado pump that may fit.
> 
> ps - I think I talked Tad into the condorino bars...




Ron,

Thanks for selling me the aluminum pump; it looks great on the bike.


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 22, 2018)

petritl said:


> ...View attachment 793481



like that beauty mark you added - I need a small Raleigh decal to put on the back of my white plastic fenders on the Lenton


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## LouB (Apr 25, 2018)

Ron. I have some.  If they are right, you asre welcome to them.


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## LouB (Apr 25, 2018)

petritl said:


> Ron,
> 
> Thanks for selling me the aluminum pump; it looks great on the bike.
> 
> ...



That is as pretty a city bike as I have seen.  Beautiful.


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## petritl (Apr 26, 2018)

The Campagnolo NR derailleur didn’t prefer the 1/8 chain, it skipped under load ( I thought the freewheel was failing).

I had this age appropriate 3spd derailleur sitting in a box and decided to figure out out to set it up. It handles the 1/8 chain well.


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 26, 2018)

how does it cover the range?  Looks great.

Are you bringing it this Sunday?


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## petritl (Apr 26, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> how does it cover the range?  Looks great.
> 
> Are you bringing it this Sunday?




I need to get a 3 spd freewheel but for now it handles top 3 gears on a 4spd freewheel.

The plan is to bring it on Sunday


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 26, 2018)

petritl said:


> I need to get a 3 spd freewheel but for now it handles top 3 gears on a 4spd freewheel.
> 
> The plan is to bring it on Sunday



another choice for down the road is hunt down a later Magistroni (or even Williams) chainset that will let you use a narrow chain and the Campy x5


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Apr 26, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> the front fender on my International was the S-shaped fender removed from my wrecked Grand Prix.
> Of course, it's aluminum rather than steel.  But I was happy to shape it enough to work.
> 
> View attachment 781506
> ...




I still own my 1971 Raleigh International.
Love the way they ride.
I bought it when it was new.
I installed, when purchased, a Cinelli fork, stem and handlebars.
Also high flange Campy hubs, brakes. I cut the center pull arc off the seat stays.
Put on a top of the line Campy seat post, Campy handlebar shift levers, Campy Strada crankset, Regina road gear cluster rear, Fiammi Red label and Yellow  label rims. I used to ride on Campeonato Del Mundo singletube tires. Best tires, so durable.
I want to find someone to repaint the frame and I need the Brooks saddle.


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## petritl (Apr 29, 2018)

This morning was the first ride. I’m pretty happy with the project and how the bike ended up looking, it was nice to save a frameset.


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## kentercanyon (May 14, 2021)

I realize this is neither here nor there, but there is a famous Italian Neo-realist movie from 1952 called "Umberto D." made by Vittorio De Sica, the director of BICYCLE THIEVES.  Unlike Bicycle Thieves, it's not about bikes at all but the lead character is named Umberto D. Ferrari and he's meant to be a somewhat universal aging Italian post-war worker, who is struggling along poorly on his meager pension and has no real friends but his dog, whom he cannot support.  I wonder if the writer and director were making a little reference to the bicycle brand from Milan?  I've always loved the movie  - it's unforgettable -  but didn't realize until today there was a bike called the Umberto Die.  (Umberto means Bright Warrior, and is the Italian version of Humbert.)  Die is as in diety, a name for a god, so it's ironic that a bright, god-like warrior is reduced to being a pensioner in the film.  

Cool build, always great to see an old frame get the appreciation it deserves, carry on!


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