# early '70's Schwinn Paramount geometry



## dicktill (Nov 19, 2014)

Hi,

Sorry if this has been covered before. I'd like to know if the geometry of the early '70's Schwinn Paramount P10's & P15's is different than the P13's. And if so, is it just the chainstay length or also head angle and other stuff.

Thanks, Dick


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## rhenning (Nov 20, 2014)

Yes geometry is different.  P10/P15s are more relaxed and designed as a touring bikes.  I have a 1974 P10-9 and it is a very comfortable bike to ride.  My friend has a 1968 racing Paramount in the same frame size and it still a very nice bike but has quicker handling.  You do feel it when riding both one after the other.  What the exact differences are I am not sure.  Perhaps a phone call to Richard Schwinn at Waterford could give you the details.   He may know more about Paramounts than most anyone else.  Roger


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## Eric Amlie (Nov 20, 2014)

I've read that when the P10 & P15 were introduced that they retained the geometry of the former P13 model and that the "new" P13 got more "aggressive" geometry. I don't know the specific frame angles though. It's interesting to look at the fork curves of the models through the years. I've yet to get a handle on the what & when of them.


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## highwheel431 (Nov 20, 2014)

*diimensional changes*

I worked in the research department at Schwinn in the 70's.  At one time I had copies of many of the Paramount prints, but the old ammonia based blue prints have long faded away.  So I'm going from memory.  I believe that the P10/15 were built with 72 deg angles and 1 1/2" of trail on the forks.  The P13 was 74 degs and 1 1/4" of trail.  I'm pretty sure of the angle measurements, but I'm fuzzy on the fork trail.  Both characteristics of steeper angles and less trail will lead to a bike that handles quicker and rides harsher.  I'm not at home right know, but I'll try to measure the trail on my P13 and report back.


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## Metacortex (Nov 20, 2014)

The P10/P15 "touring" models had the same ('70 and earlier) or virtually the same ('71/'72 and later) geometry as the P13 "racing" model at the time. The most significant differences for '71/'72 and later were the fork rake (2" vs. 1-3/4" -  '72+) and a slightly longer wheelbase ('71+). There is a 1/4" difference in the forks which means there is only a 3/8" difference in the chainstays, the latter of which was apparently to accomodate 700c rims (P13) vs. 27" rims (P10/P15). The height of the brake bridge was also adjusted for the different rims. The 73 degree head and seat tube frame angles and even top tube lengths are the same. The following information is from 1975:






For '70 and earlier they were pretty much identical: http://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_schwinnparamount_models.html


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## dicktill (Nov 21, 2014)

*thanks!*

Thanks for all the replies, and especially the geometry chart and link.

Regards, Dick


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