# Shaw Engine Kit N.O.S. in the crate !!



## dave the wave (Aug 6, 2017)

I got a email from a gentleman last year wanting to sell his  shaw engine kit still in the crate and low and behold I gave Dave Bagne the tip and he took possession of it today.a very rare find indeed !!


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## Rusty2wheels (Aug 6, 2017)

All I can say is WOW!!


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## catfish (Aug 6, 2017)

WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mason_man (Aug 6, 2017)

Yes!  Wow!

Ray


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## cyclefreak13 (Aug 6, 2017)

So that's why it got pulled from ebay.


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## fordmike65 (Aug 7, 2017)

WOW!!!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek:


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## redline1968 (Aug 7, 2017)

Nice but it looks used to me.


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## toyman (Oct 4, 2017)

Trying to work out a deal with Dave on it now.Its a great piece


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## Nick-theCut (Oct 5, 2017)

Hubba hubba.  I got a modified frame from Dave, I think he forgot to add this with the bike.  I’ll contact him now that my parts have arrived 


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## DJF (Oct 29, 2017)

dave the wave said:


> I got a email from a gentleman last year wanting to sell his  shaw engine kit still in the crate and low and behold I gave Dave Bagne the tip and he took possession of it today.a very rare find indeed !!
> 
> View attachment 656541



I am the new owner of this getting if from Dave, great guy.
I can confirm it was used but only slightly and is in pretty good shape.
As well it is the Shaw H22 Super CD engine from 1922-25 with larger Kingston carb. As can be documented with the paperwork that came with it. It was sold to the original buyer in October 1923.

We did NOT get the clutch/crank it would have been shipped with from Shaw as we call all assume it was lost many many years ago.

1. Can some more educated people out there tell me what tall tool tank frames this would fit on from the same era? I was going to use my Henderson X I had been told was Shaw equipped but it is slightly to short a frame and don't want to make changes to it.

2. I am also looking for anyone with documentation of installation and pictures of a CD (chain drive), magneto Shaw these are the later H20 and H22 versions used in kits, or factory bikes.

3. We need a Shaw Clutch/crank hanger and the adjuster lever, later version, flat metal.

4. If anyone has contacts I can reach by email that have, make or supply any Shaw parts please let me know.

I will keep everyone up to date as to this getting back to running.

I also offer to anyone the information I have learned, as most of the pages are to big to scan in I will happily type out word for word from the pages. And I say happily but please keep in mind as I cant feel my fingers except for pain since chemo, so I will do this with love.

P.S. I would like to note ALL Shaw engines were tested before they left to the buyer so as this is slightly used it may simply be the factory use before shipping out. But whose to know.


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## dave the wave (Oct 29, 2017)

here ya go,you can mount it just like this Mead Ranger


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## DJF (Oct 29, 2017)

Ok I can see that, cool. Do you want to sell that one?


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## dave the wave (Oct 29, 2017)

not mine.someone that i know owns it.


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## AdvenJack (Aug 25, 2018)

Respectfully, may I ask the price range of these engines. I certainly am NOT expecting you to disclose your specific price.
I'm very new to this entire subject. Thank you.


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## DJF (Aug 25, 2018)

No problem, 

Full kits: crate, paperwork, engine, mounts, clutch, fuel and oil tank, plus their filters and petcocks, exhaust, coil/mag, wheel conversion parts, Shaw tool and controls (handlebar and tension control), grips, cables, and small pieces all Shaw produced parts will run you over 5000US. More complete "kit" higher value/price, less complete less cost.
However just an engine with none of the added items that were with every kit nor the connected parts should only bring less than 2000US. As the person to get the engine without the standard added items will be fighting for a very long time to find the missing "standard" included items. And less for an engine that is unknown to actually run.

All said about half the parts are reproduced in small numbers, this does NOT include the H-22 Super made after 1920. But add more cost for reproductions as they are made from original casting or molds. As well, paperwork, copies, is possibly available though a few people as well to help those that are starting with little. I have original instructions for engines and clutches after 1914. And frame bending instructions to allow for the the belt drive conversion that were the same from 1903 onward.

So getting less pay less, closer to complete higher cost. And something to think about early engines, Shaw, Gibbson, Merkle, Singer and so on built before 1910 have no standard to castings so beware of weak units and thin walls. Used briefly they will survive but truly building one back to standard is taking risk of blowing them apart as one rider found out last year. So many people upgrade the internals to modern but that again adds more cost.

If you love them then cost doesnt matter but on Shaws there is little if no return on investment due to not just money invested by uncountable hours.

D


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## bikiba (Aug 25, 2018)

DJF said:


> I also offer to anyone the information I have learned, as most of the pages are to big to scan in I will happily type out word for word from the pages. And I say happily but please keep in mind as I cant feel my fingers except for pain since chemo, so I will do this with love.




Just take some digital pics of all the parts and we can stitch them together in a program like photoshop or gimp. It is possible to even digitally "repair" or as they call it "heal" the images. If you post a few ill give it a stab for ya and post the finished product back.


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## DJF (Aug 25, 2018)

I have been trying to get ppl here and other places to at least share copies of paperwork I don't have to create a library that I would like to post here. I have the Shaw clutch info but missing eclipse clutch info and installation of either.

Will try to get some pics up later this week of a couple of pages to start the thought process of what we can do with them.

D


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## DJF (Aug 25, 2018)

Please if anyone has any Shaw items or paperwork, please, let me know. I am willing to pay fairly for these items.


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## bricycle (Aug 26, 2018)

AdvenJack said:


> Respectfully, may I ask the price range of these engines. I certainly am NOT expecting you to disclose your specific price.
> I'm very new to this entire subject. Thank you.




There's one on the bay I was bidding on, but being the crankcase was repaired and still has a hairline crack in it, I'm not going any higher.
let it be the next guys problem.


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## DJF (Aug 26, 2018)

If you find one throw a link here if you like. Or (wink) a pm to me lol.


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## DJF (Aug 26, 2018)

bricycle said:


> There's one on the bay I was bidding on, but being the crankcase was repaired and still has a hairline crack in it, I'm not going any higher.
> let it be the next guys problem.




OK heads up!
Yes the Shaw listing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/113214784113?ViewItem=&item=113214784113

Looks to have had a case edge repair after the customary bottom end blow out, buyer beware *but *as well if you really want it, be prepared and happy hunting.

As the case side numbers do not match and are over 5+ years apart we can guess this is a Frankenstein. 

Good catch!

As always before an auction ends is the only time you can remove your bids, so keep this in mind if the final bidder bails out and you are next and going to get stuck.


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## DJF (Aug 26, 2018)

AdvenJack said:


> Respectfully, may I ask the price range of these engines. I certainly am NOT expecting you to disclose your specific price.
> I'm very new to this entire subject. Thank you.




I had answered the question without taking in the fact of not everyone knowing most of these engines (WITHOUT KIT) are industrial engines, they look the same but they are usually set up to run backwards, than kit motors. And are mainly for early DU-ALL Shaw tractors, tillers and water pumps. Sadly over 50% of Shaw engines were industrial and not for the kits.

As well the "clutches" some people sell are from the tractor and cannot be used in the bikes without heavy modifications.

These engines have little to no value other than parts for the "kit" engines. There is NO list to separate the two and the engines no matter the final purpose were made side by side at the plant in Galesburg KS.

To help define the "backwards" it usually meant the mag was wired backwards relative to kit motors and some were mounted 180^ to what is found on a kit for motorbikes.

This is all prior to 1927 when these motors had pretty much been phased out and a standing plant like a craftsman motor was used.


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## bikejunk (Sep 2, 2018)

I wold say they have little to no value to you  but not engine collectors -running engines go for quite a few bucks in the antique engine world  ...


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## DJF (Sep 2, 2018)

bikejunk said:


> I wold say they have little to no value to you  but not engine collectors -running engines go for quite a few bucks in the antique engine world  ...



Absolutely, but my comment was to the people trying to build the Shaw "kit" Motobike.

One of the most beautiful tractors I have ever seen was at a 4th of July a few years ago right here in SE KS, it was a Shaw TRACK-TOR, where the little thing had tank treads.

Shaw items are great, however, for a person trying to build a bicycle with the correct engine for it, the industrials he created do not have value and is a waste of _specifically _their money.

For engine collectors, or farm enthusiast they do have a value but I dont deal with those people as even though those engines where built at the same plant in Galesburg, they are not always interchangeable, sadly.


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## DJF (Sep 2, 2018)

And to follow your good argument, if there was an auction here with a Shaw engine. And two men were looking down on it to decide how much to bid.

One restoring a Motorbike, the other a Du-All piece of farm equipment, the one that would pay more, or any at all, would be the one that figures it out its for their specific project.

So that said, my comments are for this forum, which is on bicycles and the Shaw kit built for them. But as my research has put my toe into the Du-all as well, I will try to answer any question on those if they come up.


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## Chiptosser (Sep 4, 2018)

Hi,  DJF
Which magneto does your engine have?
It looks like a base mount Dixie,  Mine has the face mount, National.


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## DJF (Sep 4, 2018)

That is correct, Dixie 11, mine is the last rendition of the Shaw motobike kit and has the standing mag, the side of my case is Shaw cast with the mounting base set in the casting. Which makes it unique and not interchangeable with prior models. As well, the gearing for my engine is slightly different which also means the casting for that is unique for my engine, cover, case side and so on.

It is unknown to the number of any certain Shaw "type" of engine but all are unique in thier own right. Mine the 1924 H-22 Super has only a few known examples. But that could be said for almost all the "types" as mid year or just when he felt like it, he made changes.


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## AdvenJack (Sep 8, 2018)

DJF, Prayers for your healing needs , and Thank You for your very informative answer.


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