# 1938 Racer, Liberty badged.



## s1b (Nov 6, 2019)

What is everyone’s thoughts on this?
Appears to be a 1938 Racer, but Liberty badged.


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## SJ_BIKER (Nov 6, 2019)

For sale?


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## 1motime (Nov 6, 2019)

Lots of potential! Nice!


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## s1b (Nov 6, 2019)

SJ_BIKER said:


> For sale?



I’m trying to find out more info and such at the moment


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## cyclingday (Nov 6, 2019)

I love it!


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## SJ_BIKER (Nov 6, 2019)

Could be superior or racer


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## s1b (Nov 6, 2019)

SJ_BIKER said:


> Could be superior or racer
> 
> View attachment 1091754
> 
> View attachment 1091755



All the parts match up to the Racer. But the hubs are Dural instead of ND and the chainring is that if the Superior.
I’m guessing they put that chainring on to show it roots being Schwinn since the headbadge is Liberty.


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## 1motime (Nov 6, 2019)

3 piece chain ring could be ordered on New World also.  What size are the wheels?  Do they fit the fork and frame?  Superior shows weld on tabs on fork for fender.  Does your fork have those or would the fender be mounted to axle?


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## s1b (Nov 6, 2019)

1motime said:


> 3 piece chain ring could be ordered on New World also.  What size are the wheels?  Do they fit the fork and frame?  Superior shows weld on tabs on fork for fender.  Does your fork have those or would the fender be mounted to axle?



If it had fenders, which I doubt. They would’ve been mounted to the axle. They bike definitely looks like the racer.


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## s1b (Nov 6, 2019)

I also believe the rear dropouts on the Superior are different.


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## 1motime (Nov 6, 2019)

New Worlds had both style rear drop outs depending on year of manufacture  Early prewar had the rears.  Later prewars had front facing


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## s1b (Nov 6, 2019)

1motime said:


> New Worlds had both style rear drop outs depending on year of manufacture  Early prewar had the rears.  Later prewars had front facing



They also had rear facing without tensioners/adjusters. Which I believe the Superiors had.


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## GTs58 (Nov 6, 2019)

1motime said:


> New Worlds had both style rear drop outs depending on year of manufacture  Early prewar had the rears.  Later prewars had front facing




Sorry, they did not have two styles of *rear drop outs* with one being forward and one being "backwards".  A rear drop out is always facing forward and if it doesn't, it's not considered a drop out! There is a reason why the new post war rear fork end was called a drop out. I can't believe how many long time collectors have no idea what's what.


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## GTs58 (Nov 6, 2019)

What is the letter in your serial number? I can't make it out since someone tried to re stamp it. Looks like the 1940 NW Racer had a rear dropout so yours is earlier with the rear fork end.


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## GTs58 (Nov 7, 2019)

If the letter is a C, it's probably a 1939 model. Chicago Cycle Supply had special or deleted Schwinn graphics on their pieces so your's is minus the decals. Here's the full on Schwinn decaled 39 NW Racer.









						Schwinn New World | All Things Schwinn
					

Can anyone tell me a year and value on this?  Is this a lower model than the Paramount?  Any info is appreciated.




					thecabe.com
				




The 39 catalog with specs that match your bike. BB could be upgraded at extra cost.


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## 1motime (Nov 7, 2019)

GTs58 said:


> Sorry, they did not have two styles of *rear drop outs* with one being forward and one being "backwards".  A rear drop out is always facing forward and if it doesn't, it's not considered a drop out! There is a reason why the new post war rear fork end was called a drop out. I can't believe how many long time collectors have no idea what's what.
> 
> View attachment 1091814



I stand totally corrected.  When I used the word "rear" I was referring to the dropouts on the rear of the frame.  I need to be more mindful.  Thanks!


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## s1b (Nov 7, 2019)

1motime said:


> I stand totally corrected.  When I used the word "rear" I was referring to the dropouts on the rear of the frame.  I need to be more mindful.  Thanks!



I don’t want to get too far off track here, but........
I agree with GTs58 is pointing out. Yet I think “dropout” has become the standard name.
Much like many people call a wheel, a rim.


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## 1motime (Nov 7, 2019)

A rim is a part of a wheel.  Same as spokes and a hub. Those are not a wheel.  A bit too early in the morning for me to watch my wording.  Maybe I should get on my wheels and go for a ride!


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## s1b (Nov 7, 2019)

1motime said:


> A rim is a part of a wheel.  Same as spokes and a hub. Those are not a wheel.  A bit too early in the morning for me to watch my wording.  Maybe I should get on my wheels and go for a ride!



Not picking. Just pointing out how names start to become normal for certain things they are not.

I call them all dropouts. Why? Because when you call them rear forks, many people get confused. 
Remember, it’s a hobby!


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## Jeff54 (Nov 10, 2019)

:eek:







s1b said:


> Not picking. Just pointing out how names start to become normal for certain things they are not.
> 
> I call them all dropouts. Why? Because when you call them rear forks, many people get confused.
> Remember, it’s a hobby!



And when people call a fork; "forks" that's not simply confusing but dumb too.

  Fork is self descriptive  as a common noun  or pronoun (I'm no English major by far) but "forks require two  individual  forks.  A  front fork and rear fork? Buy one get and 1 free? Buy 1 get 1,000, a billion? 

"*Definition* of *fork*. (Entry 1 of 2) 1 : an implement with two or more prongs used especially for taking up (as in eating), pitching, or digging. 2 : a forked part, tool, or piece of equipment. 3a : a division into branches or the place where something divides into branches. "

>>> Racer smacer, It's White!
And that forward drop-out set on it, as me learned my ignorance to fact, the hard way right here too, was introduced about 1938 on Schwinn lightweights, so, so, pre or post war can be the case.


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## fordmike65 (Nov 10, 2019)

Jeff54 said:


> :eek:
> And when people call a fork; "forks" that's not simply confusing but dumb too.
> 
> Fork is self descriptive  as a common noun but "forks require two  individual  forks.  A  front fork and rear fork? Buy one get and 1 free? Buy 1 get 1,000, a billion?
> ...



How about "pants"...


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## Jeff54 (Nov 10, 2019)

fordmike65 said:


> How about "pants"...



 Ma, ah ha ha ha! yeah think my 4th grade teacher didn't wanna play that game :eek:


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## piercer_99 (Nov 10, 2019)

How about....

Handlebar.


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## Miq (Nov 23, 2019)

I'd guess 1939-1940.  That serial is super funky, like a lot of the other 1940 New Worlds, with only 4 digits after the letter and that fact that the letter part is whack with a sideways zero.  





Here's where I'm putting it on the New World Chart, it's the dividing line between rear fork ends and dropouts  :


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## Gary Eye (Jan 14, 2020)

s1b said:


> What is everyone’s thoughts on this?
> Appears to be a 1938 Racer, but Liberty badged.
> 
> View attachment 1091731
> ...



Reminds me of the orphan I'm working on now,  serial #C3700, no badge and different chainring but rear facing tips and a straighter than normal fork.


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## 1motime (Jan 14, 2020)

Gary Eye said:


> Reminds me of the orphan I'm working on now,  serial #C3700, no badge and different chainring but rear facing tips and a straighter than normal fork.
> 
> View attachment 1123907



Is that derailleur original?  How many gears on the cluster?


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## Gary Eye (Jan 14, 2020)

1motime said:


> Is that derailleur original?  How many gears on the cluster?



That Cyclo 'Oppy' derailleur was on it when recieved. Soaked in Evaporust for a night and it works again. 3-speed cluster on S/A drum hub is how its going together. Front brake to be as shown.


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## 1motime (Jan 14, 2020)

Thanks  Very interesting.  Do you think it is an add on?  I have a prewar New World 3 speed.  I am not an expert but never seen a set up like yours.  The parts are cleaning up nicely. Hopefully you keep us lightweight guys updated!


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## Gary Eye (Jan 14, 2020)

1motime said:


> Thanks  Very interesting.  Do you think it is an add on?  I have a prewar New World 3 speed.  I am not an expert but never seen a set up like yours.  The parts are cleaning up nicely. Hopefully you keep us lightweight guys updated!



I doubt that it was as sold but it came with the frameset so I'm  calling it 'period'. I was not willing to go the flip-flop hub route 'cause I'm lazy or the internal geared hub route 'cause they are too common.
The wheels and that front brake are new as are the stem, bars, and seat. It should be commentably odd when completed. Stay tuned.


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## ccdc.1 (Jan 15, 2020)

You might take a look at this one, New World C3181, as a good example of an early New World Racer. Not mine, but you can view it on the collector's Flickr site: https://www.flickr.com/photos/8379107@N03/albums/72157625405263750
According to the collector (Bob Freeman) the New World Racer was loaned out for display, and is now lost!


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## 1motime (Jan 15, 2020)

ccdc.1 said:


> You might take a look at this one, New World C3181, as a good example of an early New World Racer. Not mine, but you can view it on the collector's Flickr site: https://www.flickr.com/photos/8379107@N03/albums/72157625405263750
> According to the collector (Bob Freeman) the New World Racer was loaned out for display, and is now lost!
> 
> View attachment 1124272



Beautiful original New World.  Too bad.  Cautionary tale about lending...........


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