# Greenville, MS Schwinn bicycles



## CCTiger

Can anyone point me to a list of which models (and years) were produced in Greenville, MS? I have tried searching with not much luck. TIA


----------



## Xlobsterman

CCTiger said:


> Can anyone point me to a list of which models (and years) were produced in Greenville, MS? I have tried searching with not much luck. TIA




There is not much info out there for Greenville, and it operated from 1983 to 1991


----------



## Eric Amlie

Here is some info for 1986.


----------



## cyclingday

Interesting read.
I couldn’t help thinking about the Mountain Bike boom that was brewing at the time that article was written.
Schwinn was investing heavily into a style of bike that was going to be all but dead for the next 15 years.
I remember during the MB boom, nobody even wanted to look at a road bike, much less buy one.
That Greenville plant should’ve been ramping up to build Mountain Bikes.


----------



## Xlobsterman

cyclingday said:


> Interesting read.
> I couldn’t help thinking about the Mountain Bike boom that was brewing at the time that article was written.
> Schwinn was investing heavily into a style of bike that was going to be all but dead for the next 15 years.
> I remember during the MB boom, nobody even wanted to look at a road bike, much less buy one.
> That Greenville plant should’ve been ramping up to build Mountain Bikes.




This is one of the reasons Schwinn "FAILED MISERABLY" during the 80's, and it was business decisions like this that ended up being their demise in the early 90's!


----------



## Oilit

Xlobsterman said:


> This is one of the reasons Schwinn "FAILED MISERABLY" during the 80's, and it was business decisions like this that ended up being their demise in the early 90's!



I get the impression that Ed Schwinn was proud of the family name and the company's reputation, but he didn't have much interest in actual bicycles. Has anybody seen a picture of him on a bike?


----------



## Roger Henning

Nope only Richard rode bikes and if he had been in charge we might still have a Schwinn.  Ed was interested in blondes and sports cars.  Roger


----------



## cyclingday

Keith Kingbay or Al Fritz should’ve been put in charge.
Those guys had their fingers on the pulse of the company.


----------



## SirMike1983

You also have to remember that hindsight has proven it became very difficult to manufacture bicycles in the U.S. in a large-volume setting the way Schwinn did in the 1950s-60s. Schwinn's partnership with Giant showed that the Taiwanese company was situated better to produce reasonably priced, reasonably decent bicycles in the mass-produced range. Schwinn was stuck with an aging plant in Chicago. The traditional notion was that raw materials went into one side of a massive plant, and a bicycle came out at the other end. That style of manufacturing proved too expensive in the US by the 1980s, at least if you're looking at a mass-produced, low or mid level bicycle.

What I could see succeeding would be to try to negotiate a deal with a foreign supplier for the lower-end line up and then Schwinn's USA operation would scale back to making just higher-end bikes (something akin to what Trek was doing or what Waterford became). But even then, you have to give up on the notion that a large plant will be operating in the U.S., with raw materials coming in at one end and bicycles leaving the other by the thousands and thousands. And this had to be done years earlier - basically you need to think several moves on the board ahead, that you're going to give up on large-scale manufacturing of US-made Schwinns and convert the US operation over to premium bikes, while having a foreign supplier work the lower end of your product line up. Not easy stuff to predict, and certainly many other companies in the US got caught by the same trap in the 1970s-90s.

In a way, Schwinn is still operating in the US as Waterford today. And Waterford seems to have better grasped the US-made bicycle as a premium product for a higher-level consumer.


----------



## Xlobsterman

SirMike1983 said:


> You also have to remember that hindsight has proven it became very difficult to manufacture bicycles in the U.S. in a large-volume setting the way Schwinn did in the 1950s-60s. Schwinn's partnership with Giant showed that the Taiwanese company was situated better to produce reasonably priced, reasonably decent bicycles in the mass-produced range. Schwinn was stuck with an aging plant in Chicago. The traditional notion was that raw materials went into one side of a massive plant, and a bicycle came out at the other end. That style of manufacturing proved too expensive in the US by the 1980s, at least if you're looking at a mass-produced, low or mid level bicycle.
> 
> What I could see succeeding would be to try to negotiate a deal with a foreign supplier for the lower-end line up and then Schwinn's USA operation would scale back to making just higher-end bikes (something akin to what Trek was doing or what Waterford became). But even then, you have to give up on the notion that a large plant will be operating in the U.S., with raw materials coming in at one end and bicycles leaving the other by the thousands and thousands. And this had to be done years earlier - basically you need to think several moves on the board ahead, that you're going to give up on large-scale manufacturing of US-made Schwinns and convert the US operation over to premium bikes, while having a foreign supplier work the lower end of your product line up. Not easy stuff to predict, and certainly many other companies in the US got caught by the same trap in the 1970s-90s.
> 
> In a way, Schwinn is still operating in the US as Waterford today. And Waterford seems to have better grasped the US-made bicycle as a premium product for a higher-level consumer.




One other thing that helped kill the Schwinn Company in the 80's was the labor strike, then subsequent unionizing of the labor force! This shot the cost of operating higher for the increased wages and benefits for the now unionized employees! Just one of the MANY nails in the Schwinn coffin that ultimately led to their demise in the early 90's.........!


----------



## GTs58

It seems the Greenville plant was in operation from 1981 to 1991. Another reason was mentioned in this article why Schwinn was losing the battle. Location location location.   

Sept. 28, 1991 Chicago Tribune article. 









						Chicago Tribune: Chicago news, sports, weather, entertainment
					

Chicago Tribune: Your source for Chicago breaking news, sports, business, entertainment, weather and traffic




					www.chicagotribune.com


----------



## Oilit

GTs58 said:


> It seems the Greenville plant was in operation from 1981 to 1991. Another reason was mentioned in this article why Schwinn was losing the battle. Location location location.
> 
> Sept. 28, 1991 Chicago Tribune article.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chicago Tribune: Chicago news, sports, weather, entertainment
> 
> 
> Chicago Tribune: Your source for Chicago breaking news, sports, business, entertainment, weather and traffic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.chicagotribune.com



Location indeed.
One point he doesn't mention is that the headquarters in Chicago were 600 miles from the plant in Greenville Mississippi, even though manufacturing in Chicago had ended 10 years earlier. I've read somewhere that Giant's headquarters are located right in front of the main plant.


----------



## CCTiger

Here is a 1986 review that says the Schwinn Circuit fills the gap in the upper-end line between the SuperSport and the Peloton, and that the Greenville plant "cover's most of the company's upper end." 

Later it says "the brazing and lugs on the Greenville frames are not yet up to the standards that the Japanese have set, but our bike certainly isn't sloppy looking."


----------



## schwinnlax

If you haven’t read it, most of these topics are covered in the “No Hands” book.  If you are a Schwinn fan it is a must read.

Richard Schwinn occasionally gives talks in Wisconsin about Waterford and Schwinn.  Someone I know asked him to sign the No Hands book after one of these talks, and he refused.  He said the book was propaganda by “the banks and newspapers.”  Take that for what you will.  Ed Schwinn and his wife ran a cheese gift shop in Lake Geneva, WI after the bankruptcy.  I believe they are retired now, but not certain.  Apparently he never talks publicly about his time at Schwinn.


----------



## Xlobsterman

One thing that I often wondered about the demise of the Schwinn Company with the younger generation at the helm during the 80's, I wonder if any of them ever got caught up in the over indulgence of the powdered party favors that were so popular in the 80's.......????.........LOL


----------



## CCTiger

schwinnlax said:


> If you haven’t read it, most of these topics are covered in the “No Hands” book.  If you are a Schwinn fan it is a must read.




I haven't read it, thanks for the recommendation. I will track down a copy.


----------



## SirMike1983

schwinnlax said:


> If you haven’t read it, most of these topics are covered in the “No Hands” book.  If you are a Schwinn fan it is a must read.
> 
> Richard Schwinn occasionally gives talks in Wisconsin about Waterford and Schwinn.  Someone I know asked him to sign the No Hands book after one of these talks, and he refused.  He said the book was propaganda by “the banks and newspapers.”  Take that for what you will.  Ed Schwinn and his wife ran a cheese gift shop in Lake Geneva, WI after the bankruptcy.  I believe they are retired now, but not certain.  Apparently he never talks publicly about his time at Schwinn.




Yeah, the book is a good read, but I agree it's a somewhat slanted account.


----------



## Xlobsterman

Here is a bike that most likely came out of the Greenville factory.

1984 Sidewinder


----------



## GTs58

Xlobsterman said:


> Here is a bike that most likely came out of the Greenville factory.
> 
> 1984 Sidewinder
> 
> View attachment 1210829
> 
> View attachment 1210830
> 
> View attachment 1210831




I'm thinking maybe a Murray factory? Wasn't the Greenville plant strictly a lightweight plant?


----------



## Xlobsterman

GTs58 said:


> I'm thinking maybe a Murray factory? Wasn't the Greenville plant strictly a lightweight plant?




Not 100% sure either way. But the Sidewinder frames were basically a modified Varsity frame.


----------



## GTs58

Xlobsterman said:


> Not 100% sure either way. But the Sidewinder frames were basically a modified Varsity frame.



 I'm pretty sure they didn't EF full frames at the Greenville plant. All the EF tooling was supposidly sold to Murray.


----------



## Xlobsterman

GTs58 said:


> I'm pretty sure they didn't EF full frames at the Greenville plant. All the EF tooling was supposidly sold to Murray.




Well taking into consideration that the frame was made in Feb. of 83, then finally assembled as a complete bike over a year later in March of 84, it is really hard to say where it was finally assembled?


----------



## bikemonkey

CCTiger said:


> Here is a 1986 review that says the Schwinn Circuit fills the gap in the upper-end line between the SuperSport and the Peloton, and that the Greenville plant "cover's most of the company's upper end."
> 
> Later it says "the brazing and lugs on the Greenville frames are not yet up to the standards that the Japanese have set, but our bike certainly isn't sloppy looking."



Pics of '87 Circuit I recently cleaned..


----------



## GTs58

Xlobsterman said:


> Well taking into consideration that the frame was made in Feb. of 83, then finally assembled as a complete bike over a year later in March of 84, it is really hard to say where it was finally assembled?
> 
> View attachment 1211023
> 
> View attachment 1211024





There is no recorded date when Schwinn's frames were made. The date associated to the serial numbers is the date that serial number was stamped on the bike component and this production process started way back in 1937 when the numbers were machine stamped. The frames were built sometime later and no records of the frame build were recorded. This is mentioned in a 1970's Schwinn Reporter.

I believe those Sidewinders and other EF frame models during this time were produced by Murray. Schwinn actually supplied the SN stamped head tubes but not the EF bottom bracket shells for Murray and this has been noted on many of the Murray made Schwinns including the Cruisers and EF lightweights. Do you have some shots of all the BB joints? The head tubes and bottom bracket joints on these will tell you were the bike was made.

The Reporter showing the the head tube being stamped with the serial number and the holes being drilled for the head badge.


----------



## Xlobsterman

GTs58 said:


> There is no recorded date when Schwinn's frames were made. The date associated to the serial numbers is the date that serial number was stamped on the bike component and this production process started way back in 1937 when the numbers were machine stamped. The frames were built sometime later and no records of the frame build were recorded. This is mentioned in a 1970's Schwinn Reporter.
> 
> I believe those Sidewinders and other EF frame models during this time were produced by Murray. Schwinn actually supplied the SN stamped head tubes but not the EF bottom bracket shells for Murray and this has been noted on many of the Murray made Schwinns including the Cruisers and EF lightweights. Do you have some shots of all the BB joints? The head tubes and bottom bracket joints on these will tell you were the bike was made.
> 
> The Reporter showing the the head tube being stamped with the serial number and the holes being drilled for the head badge.
> 
> View attachment 1211286




The stamping of the serial number into the head tube was the beginning of the frame building process, so most normal people consider this the frame build date! And that blurry pic is not readable or legible.

I have no clear shots showing the bottom bracket, and the bike is now all packed up for shipping because I sold it on Ebay, and then I canceled the transaction.


----------



## GTs58

I beg to differ on what your normal people think the frame build date is. Lets call the build date when Schwinn starts rolling the tubing for the top and down tubes.


----------



## Cooper S.

Oh I wouldn’t have guessed that my Madison was built in MS, I would’ve assumed Chicago or Wisconsin


----------



## Xlobsterman

GTs58 said:


> I beg to differ on what your normal people think the frame build date is. Lets call the build date when Schwinn starts rolling the tubing for the top and down tubes.




Well that is a totally irrational analogy, since they never date stamped the tubing.......


----------



## CCTiger

I just found an 87 Prelude in mint looking condition, not too far away. I guess it would be a Greenville bike, which is what I am looking for. Any way to be sure?


----------



## Oilit

This is from "Bicycles From Taiwan", a report published in August 1983 on the findings of The United States International Trade Commission on a suit filed under the Tariff Act of 1930. The suit was brought by the Bicycle Manufacturers Association of America (AMF, Huffy, Murray and Columbia) alleging that bicycles from Taiwan were being sold at less than fair market value. But Schwinn and Ross opposed the suit and the commission found that there was no material harm to the domestic industry. But the interesting part is that the report includes a long background section on the industry at the time. Going by this excerpt, the Greenville plant was for lugged frame bikes, at least when it was first opened. It also backs up what @GTs58 said, the electroforged production went to Murray in Tennessee after Chicago closed. If you want to look at this report for yourself, it's on Googlebooks and I found it by searching on "Schwinn operations 1982".


----------



## wheelbender6

My wife is from MS and a lot of her relatives still live there. It would be fun to freshen up a Greenville Schwinn for her. 
-She doesn't ride drop handle bars anymore, so I would  need to snag some bars, shifters and levers  from a Collegiate or something similar.


----------



## Xlobsterman

Oilit said:


> This is from "Bicycles From Taiwan", a report published in August 1983 on the findings of The United States International Trade Commission on a suit filed under the Tariff Act of 1930. The suit was brought by the Bicycle Manufacturers Association of America (AMF, Huffy, Murray and Columbia) alleging that bicycles from Taiwan were being sold at less than fair market value. But Schwinn and Ross opposed the suit and the commission found that there was no material harm to the domestic industry. But the interesting part is that the report includes a long background section on the industry at the time. Going by this excerpt, the Greenville plant was for lugged frame bikes, at least when it was first opened. It also backs up what @GTs58 said, the electroforged production went to Murray in Tennessee after Chicago closed. If you want to look at this report for yourself, it's on Googlebooks and I found it by searching on "Schwinn operations 1982".
> 
> View attachment 1211864




Well once again, taking into consideration that the serial number is from Feb of 83, this Sidewinder frame was most likely built in Chicago before it closed in June of that year. NOW, we have the mystery of where it may have been finally assembled as a complete bike since the actual build code date was over a year later......................?


----------



## CCTiger

wheelbender6 said:


> My wife is from MS and a lot of her relatives still live there. It would be fun to freshen up a Greenville Schwinn for her.
> -She doesn't ride drop handle bars anymore, so I would  need to snag some bars, shifters and levers  from a Collegiate or something similar.




She ABSOLUTELY needs one!


----------



## Oilit

Xlobsterman said:


> Well once again, taking into consideration that the serial number is from Feb of 83, this Sidewinder frame was most likely built in Chicago before it closed in June of that year. NOW, we have the mystery of where it may have been finally assembled as a complete bike since the actual build code date was over a year later......................?



I have a Sidewinder with a Feb. '83 serial and a Sierra with an April '83 serial and both have Chicago built frames, and I have a Varsity with a June '83 serial that's definitely Murray built. But I've also seen pictures of Schwinns with April serials that looked like Murray built frames. If Murray leased Schwinn's flash welding equipment, then I'm guessing they got parts and maybe even finished frames to assemble as well. One bike that @hm. posted here:








						My new 1983 Schwinn Cruiser | All Things Schwinn
					

After letting go of my patina "late" 83 Cruiser and a couple others, I picked up another 83 schwinn cruiser yesterday. Got it home and started looking it over..




					thecabe.com
				



has had me wondering ever since, because the decals don't exactly match anything else I've seen. But the "Bicycles From Taiwan" report gives the best information I've been able to find.


----------



## Oilit

Xlobsterman said:


> Well taking into consideration that the frame was made in Feb. of 83, then finally assembled as a complete bike over a year later in March of 84, it is really hard to say where it was finally assembled?
> 
> View attachment 1211023
> 
> View attachment 1211024



@Xlobsterman, I was looking back through this thread and I believe your count is off. "BU" would be Feb. 1983, "BV" is Feb. 1984. Have you got a picture of the bottom bracket?


----------



## SirMike1983

Interesting chapter in Schwinn's history, one that generated plenty of controversy. Is there an appreciable quality-of-workmanship difference in a Chicago frame versus a Murray frame versus a Mississippi frame? And then compared to the Taiwanese imports?


----------



## Xlobsterman

Oilit said:


> @Xlobsterman, I was looking back through this thread and I believe your count is off. "BU" would be Feb. 1983, "BV" is Feb. 1984. Have you got a picture of the bottom bracket?




You are 100% correct. BIG mistake on my part with the U & V. 

Unfortunately the bike is all packed up and ready for shipping, so I can't really check the other details easily. But now my curiosity is going to get the best of me, so I may take it out of the box this weekend to check it just so we can all know for sure!


----------



## GTs58

Xlobsterman said:


> You are 100% correct. BIG mistake on my part with the U & V.
> 
> Unfortunately the bike is all packed up and ready for shipping, so I can't really check the other details easily. But now my curiosity is going to get the best of me, so I may take it out of the box this weekend to check it just so we can all know for sure!
> 
> View attachment 1212597
> 
> View attachment 1212598





All you need to do is take a picture of the bottom of the bottom bracket. The joints and all will look nothing like a Schwinn BB if it's a Murray built bike. Schwinn supplied Murray with their stamped head tubes at the beginning of the transition and the later Schmurray's had the Murray head tubes.


----------



## Goldenrod

In "No Hands" the dealers wanted lighter bikes and Schwinn's answer was, "Are you going to ride them or carry them?"  The company could only be in the hands of one branch of the family.  Brownie Schwinn liked to drink so he was in charge of the dealer's conventions.


----------



## Goldenrod

Xlobsterman said:


> One other thing that helped kill the Schwinn Company in the 80's was the labor strike, then subsequent unionizing of the labor force! This shot the cost of operating higher for the increased wages and benefits for the now unionized employees! Just one of the MANY nails in the Schwinn coffin that ultimately led to their demise in the early 90's.........!




They were afraid of liability and the lifetime guarantee.


----------



## Xlobsterman

GTs58 said:


> All you need to do is take a picture of the bottom of the bottom bracket. The joints and all will look nothing like a Schwinn BB if it's a Murray built bike. Schwinn supplied Murray with their stamped head tubes at the beginning of the transition and the later Schmurray's had the Murray head tubes.




I am fully aware of what to look for on these bikes. But in all honesty, I never really looked it over that closely. I just knew the bike was not assembled in Chicago from the head badge code. If I decide to unpack it, I will take the pics so everyone can see the difference.

This is what it looked like when I got it.


----------



## Oilit

Xlobsterman said:


> I am fully aware of what to look for on these bikes. But in all honesty, I never really looked it over that closely. I just knew the bike was not assembled in Chicago from the head badge code. If I decide to unpack it, I will take the pics so everyone can see the difference.
> 
> This is what it looked like when I got it.
> 
> View attachment 1213008



I believe 1984 was the last year for the Sidewinder, wasn't it? At least of the first version. That's a nice example!


----------



## HARPO

This is the Le Tour I picked up the other day (_as purchased photos_). The badge says "Chicago" with a 1982 date. I can assume, though, that it was actually made in MS?


----------



## Oilit

HARPO said:


> This is the Le Tour I picked up the other day (_as purchased photos_). The badge says "Chicago" with a 1982 date. I can assume, though, that it was actually made in MS?
> 
> View attachment 1213028
> 
> View attachment 1213029



That would be my guess, but Schwinn had imported lugged-frame bikes from Japan from the early '70's, and may still have been at this time. If there's a distinguishing marker for the Greenville frames as opposed to the imported frames, I'd like to know. But the only lugged-frame bikes made in Chicago were the Paramounts, I think (about 70% sure). Come to think of it, I read somewhere there was a Super Le Tour made in the States for a year or two, but I don't know if that was before Chicago closed or not. I think they were getting clobbered on the high end by lugged frame bikes from Europe and Japan, so maybe they tried them in Chicago before they went to Greenville.


----------



## Oilit

HARPO said:


> This is the Le Tour I picked up the other day (_as purchased photos_). The badge says "Chicago" with a 1982 date. I can assume, though, that it was actually made in MS?
> 
> View attachment 1213028
> 
> View attachment 1213029



I went back and checked the 1979 catalog on T. R. Findley's site, and lo and behold....
I guess I've got to watch that 30%!


----------



## HARPO

Oilit said:


> I went back and checked the 1979 catalog on T. R. Findley's site, and lo and behold....
> I guess I've got to watch that 30%!
> 
> View attachment 1213084




The 1982 catalog does match it up, though. And here's the serial number on the rear, if this helps any...


----------



## Xlobsterman

HARPO said:


> The 1982 catalog does match it up, though. And here's the serial number on the rear, if this helps any...
> 
> View attachment 1213247




Most, if not all of the LeTours in the 70's and into the early 80's were made by Panasonic in Japan. The bike you have in the pic cleverly has a shop sticker over where it would say made in Japan for Schwinn. If you look closely at the catalog pic you posted, you can see lettering under the Schwinn Quality crest.

There is no serial number data base for the Japan and Taiwan bikes made for Schwinn!


----------



## Xlobsterman

Oilit said:


> I believe 1984 was the last year for the Sidewinder, wasn't it? At least of the first version. That's a nice example!




82 was the first year, and it had gold or blue anodized alloy parts/wheel sets on it with chrome forks. 83 & 84 they went to steel wheel sets, and non anodized parts, with painted forks.

My 82


----------



## HARPO

Xlobsterman said:


> Most, if not all of the LeTours in the 70's and into the early 80's were made by Panasonic in Japan. The bike you have in the pic cleverly has a shop sticker over where it would say made in Japan for Schwinn. If you look closely at the catalog pic you posted, you can see lettering under the Schwinn Quality crest.
> 
> There is no serial number data base for the Japan and Taiwan bikes made for Schwinn!




I was thinking that, but some I've had said it on a sticker at the bottom of the seat tube. I'll use a hair dyer and see if I can gently remove it anyway.  .


----------



## Oilit

SirMike1983 said:


> Interesting chapter in Schwinn's history, one that generated plenty of controversy. Is there an appreciable quality-of-workmanship difference in a Chicago frame versus a Murray frame versus a Mississippi frame? And then compared to the Taiwanese imports?



The alignment on the Murray-built frames is sometimes noticeably off. I'm guessing the tooling had enough wear that getting good results took practice.


----------



## Xlobsterman

HARPO said:


> I was thinking that, but some I've had said it on a sticker at the bottom of the seat tube. I'll use a hair dyer and see if I can gently remove it anyway.  .




I know the Taiwan Giant made bikes had a sticker on the right rear dropout with the date code on them, but never recall seeing any on the Panasonic bikes? But I am going 100% by memory from 40+ years ago, and never really paid that much attention to things like that, because I never thought I would be discussing this stuff on the internet 40+ years later......................

I think some of the earlier LeTours were made in Chicago, but not 100% sure of that?


----------



## GTs58

Oilit said:


> The alignment on the Murray-built frames is sometimes noticeably off. I'm guessing the tooling had enough wear that getting good results took practice.
> 
> View attachment 1213600
> 
> View attachment 1213601
> 
> View attachment 1213602
> 
> View attachment 1213603
> 
> View attachment 1213604
> 
> View attachment 1213605
> 
> View attachment 1213606
> 
> View attachment 1213607





Slanted top bar for the really short kid. lol  Bet that took the place of the Camelback frames. I find it hard to believe Schwinn Approved of that saddle.


----------



## wheelbender6

With all the economic rivalry between the North and South, I can't believe there were no distinguishing marks in Mississippi made Schwinns. It makes no sense.


----------



## Oilit

Schwinn started importing bikes during the '70's, and at first they were careful to indicate which were which. In the catalogs, the imported bikes were "Schwinn-Approved", while the U.S.-built bikes were just "Schwinn". But after they shut down production in Chicago, they almost never mentioned where their bikes came from. I've never heard why, but at least part may be that Greenville was just a small fraction of the total. According to "The Fall of Schwinn", a two-part article in Crain's Chicago Business (1993), Giant was producing over 80% of Schwinn's bikes by 1986.





						The fall of Schwinn (pt. 1 of 2)
					

Like the Chicago summer of 1992, Schwinn Bicycle Co.'s negotiations with prospective buyers had turned cold. On Aug. 26, Chief Operating Officer Ralph Day Murray delivered the prognosis to an advisory board that included several Schwinn family members and three outside businessmen. No savior was...




					www.chicagobusiness.com
				








						The fall of Schwinn (pt. 2 of 2)
					

Two distinct odors wafted across the rugged hills of California's Marin County in the 1970s. Marijuana. And burning grease. Both tainted the air when gonzo cyclists roared down Mount Tamalpais on remodeled bikes at speeds topping 40 mph. High from the thrill, and often the dope, they'd wear...




					www.chicagobusiness.com
				



Ed Schwinn may have been trying to do what @SirMike1983 suggested: import lower-end bikes from Giant and build high-end bikes in Greenville and Waterford. But from what I've read, Greenville was continuously plagued by problems, and lost money until it closed.


----------



## mrg

This is what Schwinn said to it’s customers that wanted quality control after Chicago!


----------



## wheelbender6

I think I found a  Mississippi Schwinn here in Houston.








						1980s Schwinn Le Tour - bicycles - by owner - bike sale
					

In perfectly working condition. Recently changed tubes. 55cm frame size (fit for someone around...



					houston.craigslist.org


----------



## Eric Amlie

'88 model.
I have one also that I upgraded a bit.
I like it.


----------



## Oilit

Eric Amlie said:


> '88 model.
> I have one also that I upgraded a bit.
> I like it.
> 
> 
> wheelbender6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I found a  Mississippi Schwinn here in Houston.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1980s Schwinn Le Tour - bicycles - by owner - bike sale
> 
> 
> In perfectly working condition. Recently changed tubes. 55cm frame size (fit for someone around...
> 
> 
> 
> houston.craigslist.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1285495
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An '88 model would be the right age, but how can you tell it's from Greenville?
Click to expand...


----------



## Oilit

wheelbender6 said:


> I think I found a  Mississippi Schwinn here in Houston.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1980s Schwinn Le Tour - bicycles - by owner - bike sale
> 
> 
> In perfectly working condition. Recently changed tubes. 55cm frame size (fit for someone around...
> 
> 
> 
> houston.craigslist.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1285495



I'm guessing that Greenville used different serial numbers than the imports, but I've never seen them documented. Is that what you're going by?


----------



## GTs58

Oilit said:


> I'm guessing that Greenville used different serial numbers than the imports, but I've never seen them documented. Is that what you're going by?




Did you happen to see this Insert when Eric post it a short time back?  I haven't come across any serial number info on the late 80's and up Schwinns that would give someone an idea where the bikes were made or if all the Schwinn tagged bikes followed any special serial numbering format. 









.


----------



## Oilit

GTs58 said:


> Did you happen to see this Insert when Eric post it a short time back?  I haven't come across any serial number info on the late 80's and up Schwinns that would give someone an idea where the bikes were made or if all the Schwinn tagged bikes followed any special serial numbering format.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1289216
> 
> 
> 
> .



No, I didn't see that. Thanks for re-posting it!


----------



## Eric Amlie

FWIW, here is some info on the numbers. It's from 1981 though, so things may have changed by the later 80's.


----------



## Tour De Luxe

I just joined this forum today.  At the start of the pandemic, I again started riding my old Le Tour Luxe that I bought new in 1984 at a bike shop in Eau Claire, WI.  It had been hanging in the garage for 10 years after I bought a modern aluminum hybrid in 2008.  I replaced the old gumwalls with Vittoria Zaffiro tires, put new brake pads on,  and other than cleaning it up a bit, nothing else.  It has been working really well.  Even though my 2008 Cannondale hybrid only weighs 23# and has index shifting, this old 28# Schwinn delivers a more compliant ride and is a faster road bike, even if it is just a mid-ranger tourer.  

I was researching the pedigree on this bike and it appears to be a Greenville Schwinn.  It has SD408379 on the BB and 0824 on the headbadge. It has the 4130 Cr-Mo lugged frame with Made in USA sticker, Suntour derailliers, Dia-Compe brakes and Weinnman wheels.  I thought about trying to upgrade it to a modern kit, but it works so well as built.  Just wish there were more tire selections.  On the hilly and rough back roads south of Charlotte, I can average 16-17 mph and keep up with other riders on their fancy modern bikes, so I think I will just keep it a while.


----------



## Oilit

Tour De Luxe said:


> I just joined this forum today.  At the start of the pandemic, I again started riding my old Le Tour Luxe that I bought new in 1984 at a bike shop in Eau Claire, WI.  It had been hanging in the garage for 10 years after I bought a modern aluminum hybrid in 2008.  I replaced the old gumwalls with Vittoria Zaffiro tires, put new brake pads on,  and other than cleaning it up a bit, nothing else.  It has been working really well.  Even though my 2008 Cannondale hybrid only weighs 23# and has index shifting, this old 28# Schwinn delivers a more compliant ride and is a faster road bike, even if it is just a mid-ranger tourer.
> 
> I was researching the pedigree on this bike and it appears to be a Greenville Schwinn.  It has SD408379 on the BB and 0824 on the headbadge. It has the 4130 Cr-Mo lugged frame with Made in USA sticker, Suntour derailliers, Dia-Compe brakes and Weinnman wheels.  I thought about trying to upgrade it to a modern kit, but it works so well as built.  Just wish there were more tire selections.  On the hilly and rough back roads south of Charlotte, I can average 16-17 mph and keep up with other riders on their fancy modern bikes, so I think I will just keep it a while.
> 
> View attachment 1299551



Interesting about the serial number. Does it look like the one in this thread?








						Decoding Schwinn serial number | All Things Schwinn
					

been riding this for years and thought I knew what I had, it’s a La Tour and at one time it had another word on the frame that faded out. the online decoder that I tried would not decode. anybody have further info. Also, about 35 years ago I had another La Tour that was stolen and I still have...




					thecabe.com


----------



## Tour De Luxe

By your chart, the BB serial number would indicate April 1984. The head badge 0824 would indicate March 23, 1984 final assembly. Interesting as you say.


----------



## john_e

Project KOM-10 and other high end mountain bikes of that era were made in Greenville.

Some bikes don't need no decorations for an Independence Day parade! Here grandpa is trying to keep up with grandson number two in his mommy-powered MiniCooper. I bought this red-white-and-blue 1988 Schwinn in the early-to-mid 1990s from a San Diego firefighter -- seemed appropriate.


----------



## drglinski

schwinnlax said:


> If you haven’t read it, most of these topics are covered in the “No Hands” book.  If you are a Schwinn fan it is a must read.
> 
> Richard Schwinn occasionally gives talks in Wisconsin about Waterford and Schwinn.  Someone I know asked him to sign the No Hands book after one of these talks, and he refused.  He said the book was propaganda by “the banks and newspapers.”  Take that for what you will.  Ed Schwinn and his wife ran a cheese gift shop in Lake Geneva, WI after the bankruptcy.  I believe they are retired now, but not certain.  Apparently he never talks publicly about his time at Schwinn.



I met him at a bike shop a few years back and when I asked him about autographing the book I got the same exact response.  The guy came across as an a***ole to me and I’m not surprised that he ended up where he did. Although I suppose that if a book was written about my brother and I and how we let a company go to crap I’d be offended by it as well. 


Anyone know where the physical plant was, like an address? Just wondering what it looks like now.


----------



## Tour De Luxe

drglinski said:


> I met him at a bike shop a few years back and when I asked him about autographing the book I got the same exact response.  The guy came across as an a***ole to me and I’m not surprised that he ended up where he did. Although I suppose that if a book was written about my brother and I and how we let a company go to crap I’d be offended by it as well.
> 
> 
> Anyone know where the physical plant was, like an address? Just wondering what it looks like now.



*Schwinn*Bicycle Co. 1265 Wasson St, *Greenville*, MS 38701

I believe it was demolished.


----------



## PCHiggin

Xlobsterman said:


> I know the Taiwan Giant made bikes had a sticker on the right rear dropout with the date code on them, but never recall seeing any on the Panasonic bikes? But I am going 100% by memory from 40+ years ago, and never really paid that much attention to things like that, because I never thought I would be discussing this stuff on the internet 40+ years later......................
> 
> I think some of the earlier LeTours were made in Chicago, but not 100% sure of that?



I believe Panasonic made the 1st LeTours,maybe others,World or Worldsport? The list above shows LeTours made in MS


----------



## Tour De Luxe

You are correct. The first Le Tours were built in Japan. I believe that some late 70’s early 80’s might have been built in Chicago, but the Greenville plant built them 1981-91 until it shut down.


----------



## PCHiggin

Tour De Luxe said:


> You are correct. The first Le Tours were built in Japan. I believe that some late 70’s early 80’s might have been built in Chicago, but the Greenville plant built them 1981-91 until it shut down.



I think the only lug frame Chicago Schwinns were Paramounts, not sure when they moved production to the current place


----------



## Tour De Luxe

PCHiggin said:


> I think the only lug frame Chicago Schwinns were Paramounts, not sure when they moved production to the current place





PCHiggin said:


> I think the only lug frame Chicago Schwinns were Paramounts, not sure when they moved production to the current place








						The Schwinn Letour | 1974 to 1988
					

This page provides year by year images and info quoted from Schwinn catalogs for the Le Tour from 1974 to 1988.



					bikehistory.org
				




check out this website. I believe the LeTours were built in Chicago 1979-1981 using 1020 steel and lugged torch braised frames. My understanding is that Chicago did not have the ability to make CroMoly lugged frames, except in the hand built shop used for Paramount.   Greenville started making the 4130 Cro-moly lugged frames in 1983. The next year I bought a new 1984 Le Tour Luxe and a 1984 Le Tour Mixte for my wife and I.

sheldon brown also has some history on Schwinn.


----------



## Robert Troub

Xlobsterman said:


> You are 100% correct. BIG mistake on my part with the U & V.
> 
> Unfortunately the bike is all packed up and ready for shipping, so I can't really check the other details easily. But now my curiosity is going to get the best of me, so I may take it out of the box this weekend to check it just so we can all know for sure!
> 
> View attachment 1212597
> 
> View attachment 1212598



Great packing job btw


----------



## Robert Troub

mrg said:


> This is what Schwinn said to it’s customers that wanted quality control after Chicago!View attachment 1216595View attachment 1216597



That seat would never have left the Chicago plant.....


----------

