# Dunelt 5 Speed



## Oilit (Nov 27, 2017)

Here's a curiosity, or at least I've never seen one before. A Raleigh-built Dunelt with 5 speeds, a Hercules chain guard, a center stand with no markings and Schwinn "Spitfire" tires. Does anyone know who built the center stand and does anybody have an idea where the serial number might be? I've checked the bottom bracket and the top of the seat post, but no luck. From the general style, maybe late 60's?


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## dnc1 (Nov 27, 2017)

Have you checked the non gear side rear dropout, or the top of the bottom bracket for number?


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## SirMike1983 (Nov 27, 2017)

It is a Raleigh-made Dunelt with a Trygg type center stand. Looks mid to late 1960s to me. Raleigh called this a Sprite model, with 5 speed derailler instead of the S5 Sturmey internal gear hub. Three places to check for a serial in this era: on the top side of the lug near the seat post, on the back side of the seat tube, and on the rear drops. The 1960s were a transitional time for serial numbers and serial locations at Raleigh. I dont see one on the bottom bracket in these pictures, but that is a possibility too. Raleigh was messing with a lot of its conventions in the 60s.

By top of the seat lug, I mean the upward facing surface- Raleigh started putting them there in about 1970.

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_raleigh_serials.html


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## juvela (Nov 28, 2017)

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Thanks for sharing this find!

Had not seen this pattern of tubular crown previously.

Red plastic "tyres" on the Allvit pulleys are another dating aid.  Earlier Allvits had all metal pulleys.  You could check the various iterations with their respective dates at VB.  Model is called 1900.

Could the Trygg pattern propstand be made by Shuresta?

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## Oilit (Nov 29, 2017)

So I got this bike back out and took another look, (with my reading glasses) and the serial number is on top of the seat lug, but thanks to a light stamp and some crud, I can only read three numbers. I took a rag to the crud, but it's tenacious. There's a smear of something that looks like roofing tar on the front fender (visible in the 7th picture) and the spot on the seat lug may be the more of the same. According to Kurt Kaminer's Head Badge webpage (thanks @SirMike1983!) the top of the seat lug was used between 1970 and 1972 or 73, so that narrows it down. While I was looking, I also noticed that the front wheel has 32 spokes and the rear has 40, which Sheldon Brown said was used on the three speeds up until the early seventies.


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## Oilit (Nov 29, 2017)

Sir Mike, you are also correct about the Trygg centerstand. There are some markings on the top clamp plate that I first thought were numbers, but on closer look, it actually spells "Trygg". Thanks @dnc1 and @SirMike1983  for the suggestions!


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## Oilit (Dec 7, 2017)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> Thanks for sharing this find!
> 
> ...



"VB" is VeloBase? I had not heard of that site before. Looks interesting!


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## bulldog1935 (Dec 7, 2017)

Oilit said:


> "VB" is VeloBase? I had not heard of that site before. Looks interesting!



Velobase is extremely useful for dating components and finding good photos


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## Johnny spaghetti (Jan 20, 2018)

It is a 1968 or newer. as 3-SPEED bike English were falling out of popularity to open gear ten speeds the open gear 5-speed  was offered to as an option choice to the Internal gear Strumey Archer S5 5-speed hub that is some what rare. Raleigh produced the 1967-70 or so Sprite 5-speed with the same open gear & IGH SA  S5 hub option.


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## Johnny spaghetti (Jan 20, 2018)




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## Goldenrod (Mar 30, 2020)

Wow! Did I get taken to school.  This is what it must have been like to sit with Plato as a teacher.  Down in the dirt with antique art.


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## juvela (Aug 28, 2020)

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Hello Oilit,

Have you done any more with this find?

Clean up?  Use? New information?

Is gear block T.D. Cross?

Are wheel rims Dunlop?

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 BTW - if you have an fun pictures of your feline overseers you might think about posting them to the "show us your cat" thread at The Lounge.

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## Oilit (Aug 28, 2020)

Juvela,
I still have this one, but it's still waiting for attention. The rims are Sturmey-Archer if memory serves, and I think the goop on the fender is pine tar. I haven't seen any Sturmey-Archer rims earlier than the '60's, and I wonder if these were made from the tooling the British Cycle Corp. used for the BCC rims, introduced just before the merger with Raleigh. The chrome isn't as good but the form is very similar. But aside from the timing, I haven't seen any hard evidence one way or the other, so it's just speculation for now.
I'll have to check the gear block and see what I can find out.
And I need to quit picking up projects and spend more time on the ones I already have!


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## juvela (Aug 28, 2020)

Oilit said:


> And I need to quit picking up projects and spend more time on the ones I already have!




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Now *there *is a sentiment we all know only too well! 

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Thanks very much for the additional information.

Evidently the wheels on these are 26" so I would expect the front spacing to be 89mm rather than the 100mm one usually encounters on a derailleur geared machine.

Would assume headset and bottom bracket thread to be 26TPI.  Of course if shell is 71mm there is no need to check further...

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## SirMike1983 (Aug 28, 2020)

By the time of this bike, the Raleigh/TI conglomerate owned the Sturmey Archer name and applied it to a variety of "house" type products. So it's not uncommon to see rims with the name. They're usually good, basic and utilitarian rims. They're heavy but they do the job. Wet condition braking stinks, but that's the nature of the beast.

The older generation of Raleigh and Dunlop rims from before 1960 were generally a bit better. The Dunlop Special Lightweights in particular were nice. The Raleigh "stainless" types with matte grey center ridge were nice too. Unfortunately the market for higher quality, steel rims gradually eroded as aluminum became the choice for higher performing bikes and steel was basically low-end or utilitarian.


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## Allrounderco (Aug 28, 2020)

Are the wheels on these older 5 speeds 26" originally? My (much newer) Sprite has 27"s.


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 28, 2020)

The older ones had 26 x 1 3/8 (ISO 590) wheels. There was a 26" Sprite with S5 Sturmey hub, 26" Sprite with 5 speed derailler, and finally a 27" Sprite with derailler (usually seen as a 10-speed, but sometimes as a 5; sometimes you see "Sprite 27" as the model name). The S5 internal gear hub version is my favorite (especially if it's the 23 inch "tall" frame).


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## Allrounderco (Aug 29, 2020)

SirMike1983 said:


> The older ones had 26 x 1 3/8 (ISO 590) wheels. There was a 26" Sprite with S5 Sturmey hub, 26" Sprite with 5 speed derailler, and finally a 27" Sprite with derailler (usually seen as a 10-speed, but sometimes as a 5; sometimes you see "Sprite 27" as the model name). The S5 internal gear hub version is my favorite (especially if it's the 23 inch "tall" frame).



Thanks!


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## Oilit (Aug 29, 2020)

There was also an earlier Sprite (late '50's? early '60's?) This example was recently on Facebook Marketplace in Dayton TN for $125.00. Unfortunately I was too slow, so the only pictures I have are the ones from the ad. But somebody got a smoking deal!


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## juvela (Aug 29, 2020)

Oilit said:


> There was also an earlier Sprite (late '50's? early '60's?) This example was recently on Facebook Marketplace in Dayton TN for $125.00. Unfortunately I was too slow, so the only pictures I have are the ones from the ad. But somebody got a smoking deal!
> 
> View attachment 1256965
> 
> ...




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Thanks very much for gluing this in Oilit!

That Swallow alone is probably worth the price of the whole cycle.

With all of this renewed activity on the thread maybe we can encourage you to put the Dunelt on the front burner    

PS - thanks for posting Bob, is that short for Roberta?

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## Oilit (Aug 29, 2020)

"Bob" is from bobtail. Truthfully, I was surprised by the reaction she got. I post a war-time CWC lightweight and it hasn't gotten one comment in a week, but I post a picture of a cat and she gets 7 likes and a love in the first day! But thanks for the suggestion, I didn't realize there were so many cat-lovers on the CABE!


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## juvela (Aug 29, 2020)

Oilit said:


> "Bob" is from bobtail. Truthfully, I was surprised by the reaction she got. I post a war-time CWC lightweight and it hasn't gotten one comment in a week, but I post a picture of a cat and she gets 7 likes and a love in the first day! But thanks for the suggestion, I didn't realize there were so many cat-lovers on the CABE!




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Ah dunno Oilit...

...ye must ha' one peculiar perception iffin' ye thimketh that the lady resembles a truck.    

Not very flattering.

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Know whatcha mean anent yer CWC post.

Ah kin spend a lot o' temporal units composing a message on something technical with explanations, illustrations and links only to have it generate little or no responda.

"BUT" iffin' Ah posts on something wheech moyte be considered "cultural" or "human interest" *that *generates good response. 

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## SirMike1983 (Aug 29, 2020)

Correct - though the early road bike type Sprite was a level up from the later utility type Sprites. That was more of a performance model and would fetch more at market for a complete example. The utility Sprite was founded on the Sports model, with a few upgrades but basically just a sportier utility bike. If you have the even older, road bike type Sprite, then you're lucky because they're pretty uncommon in the US today.


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## slowride (Aug 29, 2020)

Hello everyone,
The gear block on my ‘69 Sprite is an Atom (the one that takes small dia freewheel tool). Rims are SA but does have Dunlop tires and tubes. Sadly front tire has flat spot ( from sitting over many years?). I tried removing and remounting w/o success. You can see flat spot near bottom where double lines come closer to rim.


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## juvela (Aug 29, 2020)

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Wow!

Thanks very much for posting.

She sure looks like she is ready for a concours.

That model of Huret shift lever is one not oft encountered.

Huret catalogue pages of 1969 -









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## slowride (Aug 30, 2020)

Thank you very much for the “manette”brochure excerpt. I have seen Identical ladies versions of this bike but they did not have the end piece/handle on the shifter.


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## juvela (Aug 30, 2020)

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the long version of the Huret shift levers seems to end about the 1971-72 time.

a rubber end cover, part nr. 1851,  was also offered for these levers.  fits both the long and the short versions. two colours observed are "natural" (off-white/light greyish) and blue.












the short levers of this pattern end about 1974

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## Oilit (Aug 31, 2020)

slowride said:


> Hello everyone,
> The gear block on my ‘69 Sprite is an Atom (the one that takes small dia freewheel tool). Rims are SA but does have Dunlop tires and tubes. Sadly front tire has flat spot ( from sitting over many years?). I tried removing and remounting w/o success. You can see flat spot near bottom where double lines come closer to rim.
> 
> View attachment 1257232
> ...



Wow! That looks like it was bought off the showroom floor just last week!


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## Oilit (Sep 1, 2020)

SirMike1983 said:


> Correct - though the early road bike type Sprite was a level up from the later utility type Sprites. That was more of a performance model and would fetch more at market for a complete example. The utility Sprite was founded on the Sports model, with a few upgrades but basically just a sportier utility bike. If you have the even older, road bike type Sprite, then you're lucky because they're pretty uncommon in the US today.



Thanks SirMike! You have re-confirmed that I need to kick myself for letting that one get by!


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## SirMike1983 (Sep 1, 2020)

It's hard to get deals like those because you usually have to see it right when the ad goes up, and you have to jump right on it. You have to be willing to see the bike, and immediately move in on buying it, which isn't the way some people are. I don't get deals like that either, because I'm usually too busy or want to look over what it is first. By the time I get to it, the bike is gone.


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## sykerocker (Sep 18, 2020)

SirMike1983 said:


> It is a Raleigh-made Dunelt with a Trygg type center stand. Looks mid to late 1960s to me. Raleigh called this a Sprite model, with 5 speed derailler instead of the S5 Sturmey internal gear hub. Three places to check for a serial in this era: on the top side of the lug near the seat post, on the back side of the seat tube, and on the rear drops. The 1960s were a transitional time for serial numbers and serial locations at Raleigh. I dont see one on the bottom bracket in these pictures, but that is a possibility too. Raleigh was messing with a lot of its conventions in the 60s.
> 
> By top of the seat lug, I mean the upward facing surface- Raleigh started putting them there in about 1970.
> 
> http://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_raleigh_serials.html




Regarding vintage: Dunelt (and Triumph) being the cheaper "B" line bike (that's what my boss at the bike shop I worked at 50 years ago called them) normally got any components a year or so after the parent brand.  Raleigh Sprites thru the '69 model year were still using S-A S-5 hubs and 26" wheels, went to Huret Allvit, 5-speed freewheel and 27" wheels starting in 1970.  Well, that's at least what was coming thru A.R. Adams Cycle in Erie, PA back in the day.  I'm certainly not disputing the catalog pictures, but I've never seen that chain guard on a derailleur equipped 5-speed Sprite.  Once they replaced the S-A version, they were coming thru with a regular hockey stick style chainguard, and the 10-speed version were essentially Raleigh Record's with fenders, flat bars and mattress saddle.

One thing I'm finding amusing is that the "5 speed" decal on the downtube is identical to the one on my S-A powered '69 Sprite.

We carried Triumph and Dunelt at the shop, but they were all 3-speed downmarket versions of the Raleigh Sports.  Occasionally, we'd get in a 10-speed version of those brands, bikes that the boss would really get pissed off receiving because they used a lot of Raleigh Record components, but were obviously cheaper than the Record so we sure couldn't sell them for the Record's $100.00 . . . . . . . . . . . and we were dying for any Raleigh 10-speeds we could get in.  I do remember them having those long Huret levers mounted on the downtube, while the Raleigh derailleur bikes had the more normal length levers.

I often wonder just what Raleigh's distribution channels were like.  In the Richmond, VA  area, I've owned a number of Raleigh variants that are majorly different from the bikes of the same model names we were getting in northwestern PA.


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## sykerocker (Sep 19, 2020)

slowride said:


> Hello everyone,
> The gear block on my ‘69 Sprite is an Atom (the one that takes small dia freewheel tool). Rims are SA but does have Dunlop tires and tubes. Sadly front tire has flat spot ( from sitting over many years?). I tried removing and remounting w/o success. You can see flat spot near bottom where double lines come closer to rim.
> 
> View attachment 1257232
> ...




Yeah, this is definitely a version of the Sprite that we never saw at the shop. Now, whether that was due to regional distribution patterns, or just because the owner never bothered ordering any is a good question.  I worked for an odd guy who succeeded in running a bicycle shop during the Bike Boom despite himself.  He was a firm believer in the Raleigh Sports and had a passionate love for the Raleigh Tourist (that was his personal ride) which he imparted on me.  He hated derailleur bikes, thought 10-speeds were incredibly dumb for most riders, and absolutely refused to carry anything higher in the line than a Raleigh Super Course because he couldn't comprehend anyone willingly paying more than $150.00 for a bicycle.

It was a Schwinn/Raleigh/Columbia dealership with lots of other brands added just trying to have 10-speeds in stock to sell.  In retrospect, he was actually quite smart in what the average bicycle consumer needed to ride around the neighborhood after dinner every evening, but was incredibly obtuse as to what the average bicycle consumer wanted back then.

We never saw a 5-speed derailleur Sprite at the shop until the 70's when Raleigh had discontinued the S-5 model.


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## Oilit (Sep 20, 2020)

sykerocker said:


> Yeah, this is definitely a version of the Sprite that we never saw at the shop. Now, whether that was due to regional distribution patterns, or just because the owner never bothered ordering any is a good question.  I worked for an odd guy who succeeded in running a bicycle shop during the Bike Boom despite himself.  He was a firm believer in the Raleigh Sports and had a passionate love for the Raleigh Tourist (that was his personal ride) which he imparted on me.  He hated derailleur bikes, thought 10-speeds were incredibly dumb for most riders, and absolutely refused to carry anything higher in the line than a Raleigh Super Course because he couldn't comprehend anyone willingly paying more than $150.00 for a bicycle.
> 
> It was a Schwinn/Raleigh/Columbia dealership with lots of other brands added just trying to have 10-speeds in stock to sell.  In retrospect, he was actually quite smart in what the average bicycle consumer needed to ride around the neighborhood after dinner every evening, but was incredibly obtuse as to what the average bicycle consumer wanted back then.
> 
> We never saw a 5-speed derailleur Sprite at the shop until the 70's when Raleigh had discontinued the S-5 model.



I love these kind of stories. They add flavor that you just don't get from reading the catalogs.


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