# Schwinn brand has yet another new owner!



## Xlobsterman (Oct 15, 2021)

Dorel Sports bought by Pon Holdings in $810 million deal
					

Dorel Industries has offloaded its Dorel Sports division in an $810 million cash deal with Pon Holdings, creating a new industry bohemoth.




					cyclingindustry.news


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## Freqman1 (Oct 15, 2021)

A Schwinn in name only. Everything made after they left Chicago/bankruptcy was pretty much crap with the possible exception of the Anniversary Phantoms.


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## Eric Amlie (Oct 15, 2021)

Freqman1 said:


> Everything made after they left Chicago/bankruptcy was pretty much crap with the possible exception of the Anniversary Phantoms.



I've got a couple of 60th anniversary Paramounts that I like pretty well.
One is made of lugged Reynolds 853, made by Match Cycles.
The other is made of Titanium, made by Serotta


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## fattyre (Oct 15, 2021)

Freqman1 said:


> A Schwinn in name only. Everything made after they left Chicago/bankruptcy was pretty much crap with the possible exception of the Anniversary Phantoms.



That’s an impressive feat, examining and reviewing the last 25+ years of Schwinn’s products.  I’d be interested if you could elaborate on some of the highs and lows.  Perhaps put together a list or guide so others can at least begin to have the knowledge you’ve personally obtained.


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## SirMike1983 (Oct 15, 2021)

It's a name to be bundled with others and to be applied to various lines of foreign-made bicycles. Mongoose and Cannondale are involved as well. These are now all just names to be passed around in the bowels of large holding companies, and to be applied to a bike made in a foreign factory with others. Pacific did this with the Schwinn name, then Dorel, and now Pon. "Goodwill" make the name retain a value even after falling into the claws of vulture capital, and the product has since been debased. The Columbia bicycle brand is still kicking around as well, years after it fell into the hands of larger holding companies that just put the brand on a foreign-made product. We have what we have, as they say. If you're looking at a newly made bike, look for quality and ignore old-style branding because a 1950 Chicago Schwinn is not a 1985 Taiwanese Giant/Schwinn, and that 1985 Giant/Schwinn is not the same as a big box Chinese Schwinn. The name is the same but the products are otherwise unrelated. You end up having to go for quality on a case-by-case basis.


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## tacochris (Oct 15, 2021)

Original Schwinn Chicago quality speaks for itself......


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## ozzie (Oct 15, 2021)

I have to agree with Freqman1 that many of the bikes offered under former great brand names are of poor quality. The companies which own these brands could offer better quality bikes but they have to be price competitive and choose profit instead of making a quality bike the brand name on the bike deserves.

 I have American bikes, a number of Taiwanese bikes and 2 Chinese made bikes. One of Chinese made bikes I got free and was junk but the other is a killer SE Fast ripper, is well made and has top quality parts. I don’t think I will ever destroy its over built aluminum frame as i have so many bikes sharing my riding dities.

As far as I understand the best USA made bikes were pre 1950’s. The only USA made bike I own which was bought as a complete bike is a 53 Roadmaster Pleasure liner. Being an AMF built bike I understand quality dropped but I was still surprised it was assembled with so many poor fitting parts. I can honestly say I have never seen similar issues with any of the 4 Taiwanese built bikes I own.

My 98 Trek classic cruiser has a beautiful tig welded steel frame and was assembled with quality parts. It was left outside for years and after new tires and a simple service rode perfectly.

My 89 Shogun mtb was ridden into the ground around the city by the overweight guy i sold it to and the cromoly frame and fork were in perfect condition when i got it back a few years ago.

My 2012 Mongoos Kos kruiser has a double butted cromoly frame, excellent parts and is the most amazing 26” cruiser bike I have ever ridden. It is light, soaks up the bumps like a cruiser but accelerates like a racing bike. I run a 40/16 gear combination on that bike and can still climb the steep hills around town with my half century old knees. It was built under Dorel’s rule but it is probably only the bike it is because Jeff Kosmala wouldn’t let Dorel reissue a crap bike with his name on it and a lot of thought went into the design.

I was the product manager for a musical instrument distributor for almost 30 years. I travelled throughout Asia visiting factories and know the decent ones from the bad ones, particularly those making guitars.

We had exclusive distribution with the best guiltar manufacturer in Asia and that company made incredible, affordable guitars at many price points. The prices didn’t reflect the quality you got. The quality you got was more in line with a guitar sometimes at 3-4 times the price. They played well out of the box and stayed that way. The same company also made guitars for famous brand names but as production costs increase the parent companies move production to cheaper lower quality factories to stay in the game.

The bike conglomerates are only able to sell so many low quality bikes because many of those bikes get very little use unlike the bikes many of us on this site cherish.

I am of the opinion putting an established brand on a product is ok if the quality is good. Most people who buy a new Schwinn, Mongoose or Columbia don’t understand the history behind the brands, so why do these brands still sell? With my experience in the music industry, it is the stores who are to blame as they believe the brand names are easier to sell. Many of the sales people are just lazy and store owners care little about getting the best quality product to the end user.


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## Freqman1 (Oct 15, 2021)

fattyre said:


> That’s an impressive feat, examining and reviewing the last 25+ years of Schwinn’s products.  I’d be interested if you could elaborate on some of the highs and lows.  Perhaps put together a list or guide so others can at least begin to have the knowledge you’ve personally obtained.



Impressive is what I do! Pretty simple really-last Schwinn tools off Chicago assembly line 1982 pretty much everything after that is a low. I give the Anniversary Phantom a little above simply because they make good parts bikes for people restoring Phantoms on a budget or just cutting corners. Your welcome!


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## ozzie (Oct 15, 2021)

I wouldn’t say everything was a low after 82. I have a 2012 Taiwanese heavy duti and it was a very good bike in its original form. Many of the Schwinns out of Japan and Taiwan were decent bikes. I had a panasonic tourer similar to a model they built for Schwinn and it was a beautiful bike.


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## phantom (Oct 15, 2021)

ozzie said:


> I have to agree with Freqman1 that many of the bikes offered under former great brand names are of poor quality. The companies which own these brands could offer better quality bikes but they have to be price competitive and choose profit instead of making a quality bike the brand name on the bike deserves.
> 
> I have American bikes, a number of Taiwanese bikes and 2 Chinese made bikes. One of Chinese made bikes I got free and was junk but the other is a killer SE Fast ripper, is well made and has top quality parts. I don’t think I will ever destroy its over built aluminum frame as i have so many bikes sharing my riding dities.
> 
> ...



No critique here. Post # 7.  I can sit on the porch and read a book for hours but when I come across a thread this lengthy I can't get past the first paragraph.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Oct 15, 2021)

🍿


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Oct 15, 2021)

what would Captain Kangaroo have to say about all this?

while everything with a Schwinn decal on it may not have been crap, they definitely were not Schwinn. who was it that said "rolls of flat steel come in one end of the factory and bikes come out the other"

when the company that owns the name does not even build the frame the name becomes meaningless.

Schwinn built their own tubing.


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## Xlobsterman (Oct 16, 2021)

phantom said:


> *No critique here.* Post # 7.  I can sit on the porch and read a book for hours but when I come across a thread this lengthy I can't get past the first paragraph.




But yet here you are criticizing a post that has some good subject matter related the original topic!

This is a website for discussions, if you don't like the content of what someone posted, then why not just scroll on by if you don't have the cognitive ability to read past the first paragraph?


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## Xlobsterman (Oct 16, 2021)

Freqman1 said:


> A Schwinn in name only. Everything made after they left Chicago/bankruptcy was pretty much crap with the possible exception of the Anniversary Phantoms.




There were almost 10 years between when the Chicago factory closed, and when the company finally filed for bankruptcy.

I disagree that everything made after the Chicago years was crap. I own a couple of later Taiwan imports, and they are very good quality.

Anyhow, we all have our opinions as it related to the Schwinn brand. The fall of the original Schwinn Company was a sad day in history, but I am just glad I was a part of that history for the years I worked at the Schwinn dealer during the 70's & 80's before the closing of the Chicago factory!


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## Goldenrod (Oct 16, 2021)

If you haven't read the book, 'No Hands" the rise and fall of Schwinn it is the story of what happened to America in one example of collapse.


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## Xlobsterman (Oct 16, 2021)

Goldenrod said:


> If you haven't read the book, 'No Hands" the rise and fall of Schwinn it is the story of what happened to America in one example of collapse.




I will have to get a copy of it.









						No Hands: The Rise and Fall of the Schwinn Bicycle Company, an American Institution by Judith Crown and Glenn Coleman
					

No Hands: The Rise and Fall of the Schwinn Bicycle Company, An American Institution by Judith Crown and Glenn Coleman (350 pages, Henry Holt & Company, 1996)




					www.strategy-business.com


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## HARPO (Oct 16, 2021)

Goldenrod said:


> If you haven't read the book, 'No Hands" the rise and fall of Schwinn it is the story of what happened to America in one example of collapse.




I managed to get a copy years ago. VERY interesting reading! I had no idea just how wealthy the Schwinn family was earlier on!! Ignaz probably turned over in his grave when he saw what happened to his company.


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## Eric Amlie (Oct 16, 2021)

No one has mentioned the Greenville bikes yet.
I own quite a few of them and like all the ones that I own.
This is one of my favorites.


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## phantom (Oct 16, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> But yet here you are criticizing a post that has some good subject matter related the original topic!
> 
> This is a website for discussions, if you don't like the content of what someone posted, then why not just scroll on by if you don't have the cognitive ability to read past the first paragraph?
> 
> ...



I believe the first two words were "NO Critique " Oh  I have the ability, just not the desire. Like when I see one of your posts and the picture of where you worked for the 34th time I usually just blow by it.


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## Xlobsterman (Oct 16, 2021)

phantom said:


> I believe the first two words were "NO Critique " Oh  I have the ability, just not the desire. Like when I see one of your posts and the picture of where you worked for the 34th time I usually just blow by it.




Yep, you clearly stated you were no critique, but then went on to criticize another members post........!

Why not just scroll on by if you didn't like the message he posted? Why even engage in this message thread if you don't have anything positive to say, or ad to the discussion?

So why don't you post a pic of the Schwinn dealer you worked for back in the day??????

Lets make it 35 from a different angle and time in history...........


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## ozzie (Oct 16, 2021)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> what would Captain Kangaroo have to say about all this?
> 
> while everything with a Schwinn decal on it may not have been crap, they definitely were not Schwinn. who was it that said "rolls of flat steel come in one end of the factory and bikes come out the other"
> 
> ...





49autocycledeluxe said:


> what would Captain Kangaroo have to say about all this?
> 
> while everything with a Schwinn decal on it may not have been crap, they definitely were not Schwinn. who was it that said "rolls of flat steel come in one end of the factory and bikes come out the other"
> 
> ...



Agreed, my point is there are plenty of decent riding bikes out there bearing names of defunct manufacturers. They are not all crap and I’ve yet to break one. I own 2 Chicago built Schwinn bikes and my first Schwinn was a Greenville built cruiser 5 I bought 12 years ago.  I regret selling that bike because it was barely ridden by the original owner and still had its original tyres. It was a private import and also the only American built Schwinn balloon tire bike I have ever seen for sale downunder.


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## GTs58 (Oct 16, 2021)

ozzie said:


> Agreed, my point is there are plenty of decent riding bikes out there bearing names of defunct manufacturers. They are not all crap and I’ve yet to break one. I own 2 Chicago built Schwinn bikes and my first Schwinn was a Greenville built cruiser 5 I bought 12 years ago.  I regret selling that bike because it was barely ridden by the original owner and still had its original tyres. It was a private import and also the only American built Schwinn balloon tire bike I have ever seen for sale downunder.




I don't think Schwinn ever produced that model at Greenville. They didn't do electro-forged cantilever frames there. What year is your Cruiser 5? Schwinn produced a few of the first 1983 models and then the production went to Murray for around 300,000 units and then Giant started producing them.


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## razinhellcustomz (Oct 16, 2021)

fattyre said:


> That’s an impressive feat, examining and reviewing the last 25+ years of Schwinn’s products.  I’d be interested if you could elaborate on some of the highs and lows.  Perhaps put together a list or guide so others can at least begin to have the knowledge you’ve personally obtained.



Try reading "No hands the rise and fall of the Schwinn Bicycle Company, An American Institution" book.. I'm reading it now and find it quite an informative read..


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## Archie Sturmer (Oct 16, 2021)

Cool pictures of Aviation Cyclery; (I had to zoom in to see that part of the signage).
The Aviation address made me curious, so I googled it:
https://www.hermosacyclery.com/aviation-cyclery/
Thinking that the thread might be placed in a more *general* forum to include GT Dyno, and other equal brands formerly owned by Dorel Canada.


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## Xlobsterman (Oct 16, 2021)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Cool pictures of Aviation Cyclery; (I had to zoom in to see that part of the signage).
> The Aviation address made me curious, so I googled it:
> https://www.hermosacyclery.com/aviation-cyclery/
> Thinking that the thread might be placed in a more *general* forum to include GT Dyno, and other equal brands formerly owned by Dorel Canada.




Did you frequent my shop back in the day? 

Hermosa Cyclery has the aviationcyclery.com domain name that they purchased with the remaining inventory when the store closed in Oct. of 2017

I visited the area again back in the summer of 2019, and went for a bike ride on the strand with a couple of the owners pictured in that link you posted. Also on that ride, we had the pleasure of having local cycling legend Ted Ernst along for the ride that day. https://easyreadernews.com/ted-ernst/

Here is a pic of us in front of their shop in Hermosa after the ride.


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## Archie Sturmer (Oct 16, 2021)

Aviation & Arbor Vitae, those “A” streets, (and East of Sepulveda), are so confusing; maybe I was thinking of Mac’s Bike Shop 220 E. Arbor Vitae, Inglewood.


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## phantom (Oct 16, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> Did you frequent my shop back in the day?
> 
> Hermosa Cyclery has the aviationcyclery.com domain name that they purchased with the remaining inventory when the store closed in Oct. of 2017
> 
> ...



That's you in the middle correct ?


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## Xlobsterman (Oct 16, 2021)

phantom said:


> That's you in the middle correct ?




Nope...........that's Ted


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## Xlobsterman (Oct 16, 2021)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Aviation & Arbor Vitae, those A streets are so confusing; maybe I was thinking of Mac’s Bike Shop 220 E. Arbor Vitae, Inglewood.




There were quite a few small bike shops around back in the day, and a large percentage of them were Schwinn Dealers.

My old shop is now a Rack Starz store.


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## ozzie (Oct 16, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> I don't think Schwinn ever produced that model at Greenville. They didn't do electro-forged cantilever frames there. What year is your Cruiser 5? Schwinn produced a few of the first 1983 models and then the production went to Murray for around 300,000 units and then Giant started producing them.



I sold that bike a few years back and it may have not been named the cruiser 5. It was black, had an electro forged canti frame, tubular front forks, steel chrome rims, Schwinn studded tyres, stem mounted shifter,  low road type stem, French hubs, Weinmann caliper brakes and a Messinger saddle. The serial number was on the head tube. I’m quite sure when I checked the serial number, it came up as a Greenville bike. It definitely wasn’t a tig welded Giant bike. The first owner bought it from a dealer in Long Beach. The dealer sticker was on the seat tube. I must search for a photo on the web as it is not a model you see often.


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## Xlobsterman (Oct 16, 2021)

ozzie said:


> I sold that bike a few years back and it may have not been named the cruiser 5. It was black, had an electro forged canti frame, tubular front forks, steel chrome rims, Schwinn studded tyres, stem mounted shifter,  low road type stem, French hubs, Weinmann caliper brakes and a Messinger saddle. The serial number was on the head tube. I’m quite sure when I checked the serial number, it came up as a Greenville bike. It definitely wasn’t a tig welded Giant bike. The first owner bought it from a dealer in Long Beach. The dealer sticker was on the seat tube. I must search for a photo on the web as it is not a model you see often.




It was most likely an 84 model made by Murray. After that it was all Taiwan!


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## ozzie (Oct 16, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> I don't think Schwinn ever produced that model at Greenville. They didn't do electro-forged cantilever frames there. What year is your Cruiser 5? Schwinn produced a few of the first 1983 models and then the production went to Murray for around 300,000 units and then Giant started producing them.



Sorry, I am probably mistaken the frame was electro-forged. It was the model as in the advertisement below on the right.


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## ozzie (Oct 16, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> It was most likely an 84 model made by Murray. After that it was all Taiwan!
> 
> View attachment 1497021
> 
> View attachment 1497022



You got to it before I did.


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## GTs58 (Oct 16, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> It was most likely an 84 model made by Murray. After that it was all Taiwan!
> 
> View attachment 1497021
> 
> View attachment 1497022





Lets not forget about the Hungarian pieces! The made some of the same models as Taiwan for a few years.


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## ozzie (Oct 16, 2021)

The article says the frames were built by Schwinn and sent to Murray for finishing.  Were they electro forged?


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## GTs58 (Oct 16, 2021)

ozzie said:


> The article says the frames were built by Schwinn and sent to Murray for finishing.  Were they electro forged?




I believe Schwinn sent the parts to Murray but not complete frames. Or maybe both for a short time. An electro-forged Murray frame did not have the electro-forged bottom bracket shell but did have the Schwinn stamped EF head tubes.


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## ozzie (Oct 16, 2021)

It was like this one listed on the cabe last year.


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## ozzie (Oct 16, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> I believe Schwinn sent the parts to Murray but not complete frames. Or maybe both for a short time. An electro-forged Murray frame did not have the electro-forged bottom bracket shell but did have the Schwinn stamped EF head tubes.



Thanks.


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## Xlobsterman (Oct 17, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> Lets not forget about the Hungarian pieces! The made some of the same models as Taiwan for a few years.




That is correct, but a few one offs were made in the USA over the years like this 91 Cruiser Supreme.


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## Xlobsterman (Oct 17, 2021)

ozzie said:


> You got to it before I did.




They are a good quality bike also, I have one in my Cruiser collection!


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## ozzie (Oct 17, 2021)

Xlobsterman said:


> They are a good quality bike also, I have one in my Cruiser collection!
> 
> View attachment 1497198



Yours is exactly the model i had. Does it have the electro forged bottom bracket? The brake levers look to be dia-compe.


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## Xlobsterman (Oct 17, 2021)

ozzie said:


> Yours is exactly the model i had. Does it have the electro forged bottom bracket? The brake levers look to be dia-compe.




It is a Murray built frame without the seams like the Chicago frames had.


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