# 1918 DAYTON Military Bicycle



## hoofhearted (May 5, 2014)

*HELP ... is there any scholarly-evidence that the '18 Dayton Military Bicycle 
was painted BLACK ... and / or .. any scholarly evidence this same model had 
it's brightwork also painted ... similar to the 1918 Great Western and the 1918 Col-
umbia .. that had the brightwork painted ??*


Thank you for any response ...........

...........  patric cafaro



==================================================================
==================================================================


----------



## Balloontyre (May 13, 2014)

*Request Permission to enter...*

Ooooh, the Military forum...This is serious stuff.
Boy it's very clean in here, everyone has tidy haircuts, spiffy trousers. 

I was directed by the gate guard to this thread in response to Captain Hoofhearted's request for information...

 Hand Salute!!

I present,
US troop postcard, sent from France, date unknown. There may be other images of different people from this photo session?

Lots of info in this pic, I hope it helps. I can't make out the maker of the bike. What does a Dayton military chain wheel look like?

Permission to stand at ease?


----------



## hoofhearted (May 13, 2014)

Balloontyre said:


> Ooooh, the Military forum...This is serious stuff.
> Boy it's very clean in here, everyone has tidy haircuts, spiffy trousers.
> 
> I was directed by the gate guard to this thread in response to Captain Hoofhearted's request for information...
> ...





*Permission granted Top-Gunner Balloontyre ... say .. that IS a rather loaded foto.  Any WWI Dayton, Military-
Bicycle info is appreciated.  The Dayton- military chainwheel has six, tapering to the outer ring, spokes.  At the base 
of each spoke will be found a crank, drive-pin-hole. The chainwheel was also used on the Snell,  and a few other 
models ... usually hardware-store labels*

Quite an informative foto, that.


...........  patric


















*Horsepower Added*







===================================================================
===================================================================


----------



## Balloontyre (May 14, 2014)

Does the post card photo look like a Dayton bike to anyone else? I can imagine a faint headbadge shadow or outline kinda like the common Iver Johnson shape, Dayton Wings maybe?


----------



## Balloontyre (May 30, 2014)

*3 bikes Sir!*

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/6...ntry-troops_soldiers-on-horses_bicycle-riders
playback full screen for better viewing. 
Awesome! !!!!!


----------



## bike (May 30, 2014)

*The bike in the photo*

seems to have the top tubes much closer than other examples in the thread


----------



## Oldnut (May 30, 2014)

*Dayton chainwheel*

Here's a picture of that chainwheel


----------



## Balloontyre (May 30, 2014)

bike said:


> seems to have the top tubes much closer than other examples in the thread




Yes, maybe a Columbia or GWM. What you think?
bikes in video look to have close bars.


----------



## bike (May 30, 2014)

*57 sec*



Balloontyre said:


> Yes, maybe a Columbia or GWM. What you think?
> bikes in video look to have close bars.




I was not able to see the bars in the vid


----------



## hoofhearted (May 30, 2014)

*Quotation from bike ..... "The bike in the photo seems to have the top tubes much closer than other examples in the thread."*




*With regards to WW I ... Great Western military bicycles AND Westfield-Columbia military bicycles 
have upper-tubing members closer together than some of the Davis-Dayton and Davis-Harley Davidson 
military bicycles.  

Both the Dayton and the H-D military models have been observed with a narrow-bar configuration  if the 
machine has a 3" [+/-] headtube.   The Dayton and the H-D machines having a 5" OR 7" [+/-] headtube have 
been observed with a wide-bar configuration.

The Great Western and the Columbia machines are painted in an olive-drab recipe for paint that could change 
from bicycle to bicycle.  The two, pigmented components of the OD paint on the GW and the Columbia were 
yellow-ochre AND black ... mixed in ever-changing ratios.

The paint on the Dayton military AND the H-D military has been observed to be lowered-gloss black.  A few Naval-
Yard specimens have been observed to have been over-painted in what the U.S. Navy calls Haze Grey (Gray ?).*


..... patric


Will edit this info this weekend and add fotos.   Also ... don't blame me for that _Haze Gray_ reference ... that is pure 
Admiral Balloontyre (Ivo) at his best.

And I must commend _bike_ (Paul G.) for having a good eye.

*HERE IS THAT EDIT ...  fotos attached ......*
































=====================================================================================
=====================================================================================


----------



## bike (May 30, 2014)

*Last summer i met an old guy that has a military surplus*

he gave me the code for wwi drab. 3 letters that had to do with gloss as well as color- he said it was a mix of whatever they could get for the batch and WAS NOT AT ALL UNIFORM....


----------



## hoofhearted (May 30, 2014)

bike said:


> he gave me the code for wwi drab. 3 letters that had to do with gloss as well as color- he said it was a mix of whatever they could get for the batch and WAS NOT AT ALL UNIFORM....






*Good Investigation, Paul !!!

Also .. do a CABE SEARCH ..... olive drab government standards ... just type in those four words .. then 
put your cursor on the magnifying-glass symbol and let em' know you are knockin' !!!

Wha' ?!! ... You're still reading this ? !! ............. go do that search ......*



==============================================================================
==============================================================================


----------



## hoofhearted (May 31, 2014)

*ENTRY # 10 of this thread now has fotos added.**

===============================*


----------



## Balloontyre (Jun 2, 2014)

*more moving picture footage*

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/6...s-troops_march_stand-with-donkeys_World-War-I


----------



## Balloontyre (Jun 2, 2014)

*Bicycle comes in view at 2 minutes*

Capt'n H sir,
Transmitting newly found recon in below link...
Does the bright work on bars in video and previously submitted b&w photo look bright to you ? Kinda looks like it to me.
http://www.criticalpast.com/video/6...-equipment_railroad-cars_tanks-pull-equipment


----------



## hoofhearted (Jun 3, 2014)

Balloontyre said:


> Does the bright work on bars in video and previously submitted b&w photo look bright to you ? Kinda looks like it to me.
> http://www.criticalpast.com/video/6...-equipment_railroad-cars_tanks-pull-equipment





*Top-Gunner Balloontyre ... the brightwork does look bright ... but so does the headtube in the vid ... 
tho' nothing appears to be reflective ..........

These are great films, Ivo ... and I like how they are programmed to show in real-time .. instead of the usual 
speeded-up stuff that comes out of a hand-cranked camera.*

..............  patric




------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## hoofhearted (Jun 3, 2014)

Balloontyre said:


> http://www.criticalpast.com/video/6...s-troops_march_stand-with-donkeys_World-War-I




*Jeez-Loo-Eeeze ... this is good stuff ... WOW !!*




---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## Balloontyre (Jun 12, 2014)

*More good stuff*

Cap'n  H,
Looks like some great stuff between min 6:25 - 8:45. 
gotta get back to my post.
Hand Salute!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qvhNvF_2c0


----------



## hoofhearted (Jun 12, 2014)

Balloontyre said:


> Cap'n  H,
> Looks like some great stuff between min 6:25 - 8:45.
> gotta get back to my post.
> Hand Salute!!!!
> ...





*Top-Gunner Balloontyre ... mighty good stuff, that ....... 

Believe the clearest fotos of those Military Bicycles gets 
underway at approximately 8:22-minutes ... lasts for maybe 
five seconds ... clear footage !!

Hand Salute !!!!!*



==========================
==========================


----------



## Balloontyre (Jun 12, 2014)

*bikes appear early in film*

any thoughts to these bicycles? 

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/6...d-Division-US-Army-Negro-march_bicycle_horses


----------



## Nick-theCut (Jun 12, 2014)

Hmmm.  Why is it when these gentleman focus there efforts on a thread, we get such amazing history lessons?  Patrick the teacher, Ivo the wizard and Captain Genero ...  True soldiers.  I salute you.
I need to watch more video, but what a time capsule!  Let's learn more!  May the drab green scheme team continue.  
Thanks.





~ Nick


----------



## Balloontyre (Sep 19, 2014)

*More 1918 Captain!*

Sir,
This picture(original photo) was delivered to me by some of our scouts.
Holy sis boom bah, ! Lots of details and questions arise. 
Captain H, can you please hold some training. 
Sniper I.


----------



## hoofhearted (Sep 24, 2014)

Balloontyre said:


> Sir,
> This picture(original photo) was delivered to me by some of our scouts.
> Holy sis boom bah, ! Lots of details and questions arise.
> Captain H, can you please hold some training.
> Sniper I.





*Master Sniper Ivo ... Wonderful catch - this foto.

Adding a "card" to the H-D ''collector-card'' stack that was never issued
with those that were.  There is factory-evidence of the production of 
these H-D Military-Machines ... formally referred  Model B-1.

Training to start end of next week .. Lord Willing ...........*

Captain H







*SPACER*


----------



## Balloontyre (Oct 6, 2014)

*Frame Bars Looks Wide Spaced*

photo is still frame from WW1 footage


----------



## Balloontyre (Oct 6, 2014)

*Close spaced frame bars*

Frame bars close spaced, frame pump, rear carrier, bell?(left side bar), mud guards, fork mount lamp.


----------



## hoofhearted (Oct 6, 2014)

*IVO .... am postin' the foto you sent me, today.  Am too pooped to pop .....  will comment tomorrow.
I believe this foto has better clarity than the similar-one an entry or two back ... Thank YOU - IVO !!!*

....... patric















==============================
==============================


----------



## hoofhearted (Oct 7, 2014)

*Thoughts ...........*

*THOUGHTS .........

In an effort to utilize parts and equipment that Davis may have had 
plenty of ... the company may have used the Racer-Only, Two-Piece
Crank ... and the Racer's Fixed-Gear Hub.  

My personal observation is that the company built / sold very-few Racing
Models compared to other models that the company produced.

My guess-ti-ment is based on the amount / type of Davis models found 
today as relics or survivors.

Most of the above is a personal opinion, formed using no real-world evidence.

Certainly, much more research is necessary before conclusions can be reached.*


................  patric



post script ..... This is a great foto - IVO !!   Thank YOU !!




















===============================
===============================


----------



## Balloontyre (Oct 12, 2014)

hoofhearted said:


> *HELP ... is there any scholarly-evidence that the '18 Dayton Military Bicycle
> was painted BLACK ... and / or .. any scholarly evidence this same model had
> it's brightwork also painted ... similar to the 1918 Great Western and the 1918 Col-
> umbia .. that had the brightwork painted ??*
> =




*See below photos
*


hoofhearted said:


> *Quotation from bike ..... "The bike in the photo seems to have the top tubes much closer than other examples in the thread."*
> 
> *With regards to WW I ... Great Western military bicycles AND Westfield-Columbia military bicycles
> have upper-tubing members closer together than some of the Davis-Dayton and Davis-Harley Davidson
> ...




Captain H,

Am submitting (now declassified) spy photos of NAVY *haze gray *overpainted bicycle. Of note: black under coat, chain ring in Nickle. Rims look euro to me. 
I.


----------



## chitown (Oct 13, 2014)

*Not an HD in my opinion*



Balloontyre said:


> haze gray overpainted bicycle. Of note: black under coat




It looks like the gray is painted over the spoke nipples too. Leading this reader to think the paint was added possibly decades later. The fork and frame do look more like the Westfield and Great Western built double bars.

The HD sprocket looks pretty flat as well.


----------



## Balloontyre (Oct 13, 2014)

chitown said:


> It looks like the gray is painted over the spoke nipples too. Leading this reader to think the paint was added possibly decades later. The fork and frame do look more like the Westfield and Great Western built double bars.
> 
> The HD sprocket looks pretty flat as well.




Yes, bike from Hartung auction. 

I can attest, (since I saw the bike in person and took these and several other photos) that the serial number stamp on bottom bracket is running with the bearings in true Davis fashion. 

The gray paint is a repaint, US Navy typical, if it isn't moving paint it motto.

The chain ring is as good as authentic as I've seen, I'll look for a better pic.


----------



## Balloontyre (Oct 13, 2014)

chitown said:


> It looks like the gray is painted over the spoke nipples too. Leading this reader to think the paint was added possibly decades later. The fork and frame do look more like the Westfield and Great Western built double bars.
> 
> The HD sprocket looks pretty flat as well.



The original photos of this bike are in billboard resolution, unfortunately I can't upload in that large size.
Here are the fork and chain ring, 
Hopefully Captain H can enlighten us.


----------



## hoofhearted (Oct 13, 2014)

*A short time after the 2011 Hartung Auction .. I was contacted by Bob Jameson of Troy, OH. (Bob is a wheelman.)
Bob called and asked me to "help" the winner of the H-D military bicycle (Hartung 2011) as Bob had zero
information to assist the winner when he called Bob.  Bob turned over some snapshots of this machine 
to me (can't currently lay hands on them .. but they are in my possession).

I called the winner ... offering assistance .. the winner did not pursue any info with any great display of excitement.*

...... patric




 














*Note .. Above foto shows a H-D bicycle ... NOT A MILITARY H-D BICYCLE.*







=========================================
=========================================


----------



## chitown (Oct 14, 2014)

*Adverts, Renderings and Pictures*

Horse power machine hard at work comparing renderings of the 1918 Dayton Military Model. This photo was sent to Motorcycle Illustrated to show the Dayton Military Model in action. It appears to have a triple crown truss fork. Common for many builders of the day including Davis (Yale had this style fork) . Yet the rendering looks more like a single crown variety.

Is it fair to assume what was drawn wasn't necessarily what went out the factory door? The fact that a photo sent from the Davis factory showing a gentleman in military dress riding a military model Davis with a standard sprocket and not a D-A-Y-T-O-N sprocket. Yet this third advert with the Dayton in the middle of a barrage and sporting the D-A-Y-T-O-N sprocket and cafe style bars instead of the box style. 

Interesting to note the finish being listed as olive drab for the frame, guards and hubs and "dull nickle" finish on sprocket and handlebars.


----------



## Balloontyre (Oct 15, 2014)

GREAT STUFF, Chitown!!!

The cafe bars on drawing VS the box bars in ad picture could very well be reality. If you have patience to sit through hours of war time footage, there are many clips of US Servicemen (Navy or Army) riding bikes. In a recent eye bleeding gaze at footage, there were 2 service men bikes riding together, one with box bars on military model bike, the other with cafe style bars on DIAMOND frame bike.
 I dismissed the diamond frame bike as spoils of war, but maybe not???


----------



## Balloontyre (Oct 15, 2014)

Notice the joint of lower bar as it connects to seat tube, this is different from the fitting on the Columbia and GWM military bikes.
My apologies for the image quality.


----------



## Balloontyre (Oct 19, 2014)

*US official photo*

Devil Dogs, 
More recon Capt'n H!
Salute


----------



## Balloontyre (Oct 21, 2014)

Another ad showing Kalifornia or café bars. Ad caption indicated 1918 Columbia


----------



## Balloontyre (Dec 8, 2014)

*Gun Collectors*

Cop, on military bike? 
A friend says to me " I have an old gun book somewhere, with a cop on a double bar bicycle like that with a mounted firearm"


I said   "☆☆☆WHAT☆☆☆"


He's looking for it though his collection of books.  

 Cop pic from web, Dealership pics Oshkosh WI


----------



## Nick-theCut (Dec 8, 2014)

Dealership pics are amazing. Motorcycle and Motorbike heaven.


----------



## hoofhearted (May 18, 2015)

*Ethernet Image ......*


----------



## hoofhearted (Mar 5, 2017)

*




 *


----------



## hoofhearted (Sep 24, 2017)

*Article courtesy of Scott Mc.  Thank you - Scott !!*


----------



## Goldenindian (Sep 24, 2017)

hoofhearted said:


> *Article courtesy of Scott Mc.  Thank you - Scott !!*
> 
> View attachment 681480



WOW that is an amazing picture/reference! thanks for sharing.


----------



## Mercian (Sep 25, 2017)

Hi All,

Please excuse my asking this on a Dayton thread. As some of you may know I'm working on a Columbia Military Model at the moment. The subject of tires is a bit of a problem for me, and that excellent Dayton ad. has raised the question again, showing what appears to be white tires.

I'm aware that the wheels/tyres on 'surplus' Columbias as advertised for sale to the public are not necessarily the same as those fitted to the 'in service' bike.

As an example, here is the advert for the immediate post war Columbia built up with surplus parts (Credit Mr Columbia's site

http://www.vintagecolumbiabikes.com...AtWar/1920MilitaryModel.jpg&target=tlx_picler

It appears to show the Vitalic tire tread, and states in the ad; that Vitalic De Luxe or Fisk Cord are the tire options on Steel Cement rims.

The rear rim (below) on my 1917 bike appears to be original (it still has the Morrow hub etc), but appears to be a 'Clincher' type rather than 'Steel Cement'. This leads me to think that not all of the options seen in post war advertising are correct for wartime bikes.





So, (bearing in mind I am still a beginner at this!),

Is the above Clincher rim for a tire with separate tube, or a single tube tire?

Were Vitalic treads available in both of these options?

Did wartime bikes have black or white tires (the ones in the Davis ad; look white)?

I'm getting to the point of buying the tires, so I'd like to be correct if possible.

Thanks for the help.

Best Regards,

Adrian


----------



## Goldenindian (Sep 28, 2017)

The rim is a clincher and it takes a single tube.
Vitalic came in white. And different tread colors. Red/blue. I have only ever seen a colored vitalic set once. White is the most common. I struggle to ever use the word "common" when talking vitalic. They are a rare find. Good luck 

The bottom picture is the clinch version.


----------



## Mercian (Sep 28, 2017)

Hi Goldenindian,

thanks for the comprehensive reply. The tyre that came off it was a very early and disintegrating black single tube made by Dunlop in France, 

OK, so it looks like I'll have to spend some time getting something near original, which means (since I want to use the bike) two wheel sets, something practical, and  (hopefully eventually ((Hope costs nothing)) something real. That's helped with that decision. Now to find a suitable wheelset with white tyres...

Have a Good Weekend,

Adrian


----------



## hoofhearted (Dec 31, 2017)

*Fork Bracket on this Military Model 
Neverout Lamp is positioned on the 
wrong side of this lamp.  The lamp 
itself and the bracket are manufac-
tured of very-high grade unobtainium.



 *

*






 
*


----------



## Mercian (Jan 1, 2018)

Thanks for the information, Hoofhearted. (-:

Now I have another bit to find (and I have a very nice Solar mounted on it at the moment!)

Happy New Year.

Adrian


----------



## johan willaert (Jan 1, 2018)

For reference only , from a friend's collection.... NOT FOR SALE


----------



## hoofhearted (Jan 2, 2018)

*






 *


----------



## hoofhearted (Jan 2, 2018)

*



 *


----------



## hoofhearted (Jan 2, 2018)




----------



## hoofhearted (Jan 2, 2018)




----------



## Mercian (Jan 11, 2018)

Hi All,

Following up the Neverout lamp discussion, I came across this catalogue page detailing the different types and brackets to go with them.

Interesting that the 'Bicycle' light was supplied with both brackets (types 3 and 4) to fit to the fork and the head tube, and that the Military clamp (type 66) is actually for a Motorcycle. This could be easily mistaken for the type 46 carriage dash bracket.

Best Regards,

Adrian.


----------



## Mercian (Jan 21, 2018)

Hi All,

I'm here to ask for a favour. (-:

I've bought a 'Neverout' lamp and clamp for my 1917 'Military Model' Columbia from the US, but can only get it shipped to addresses in the US. Would anyone be willing to receive it, and send it on to me in France? I would pay the postage by Paypal.

Thank you for your consideration.

Best Regards,

Adrian


----------



## hoofhearted (Jan 21, 2018)

Mercian said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I'm here to ask for a favour. (-:
> 
> ...




*Adrian ..... I can help.

Am contacting you off the line, thru CABE PM ...
with my Ohio address.

Don't worry about the Paypal stuff -- hoo nose ...
I may need a small favor in return one day.

..... patric*


----------



## Mercian (Jan 21, 2018)

Hi Patric,

Thank you for your kind offer. I have sent a PM with further details.

Best Regards,

Adrian


----------



## hoofhearted (Dec 1, 2018)

Mercian said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Please excuse my asking this on a Dayton thread. As some of you may know I'm working on a Columbia Military Model at the moment. The subject of tires is a bit of a problem for me, and that excellent Dayton ad. has raised the question again, showing what appears to be white tires.
> 
> ...





*Holy Crap, Adrian ... don't know how I glazed over your 
entry of September 25, 2017 .. but I did.  My apologies to you.*

*Not sure of tire color on the Columbia.  The Dayton is often 
shown with all-white tires.  The only pic I have of the H-D
has black, with whitewall tires.*








*Every original Military Model ... the Columbia, the Dayton,  the H-D ..
and the Great Western ...has steel clinchers ... just like you show 
in your entry.  *

*Sorry, but I can only site my visual experience as evidence.  I offer no 
scholarly support like documentation or an illustration.  If I could .... 
I would have done so.*

*These clincher wheels want a beaded-edge tire with a separate tube.*

*You are correct ... the post-WW l Columbia Military is offered with
steel, glue-on rims.*

*My tall frame Military H-D has steel clinchers.  As I have no clinchers
nice enough to place on my patinated machine .. am gonna run a
pair of all black, inflatable Universal's on those wheels.  It's a show
item .. am not ridin' it.  Am pretty sure there are a few readers that
are cringing at my decision.  *

*..... patric*

*

*


----------



## Mercian (Dec 1, 2018)

Hi Patric,

Thanks for the detailed reply (-:

The recently discovered archive photos of an MM Columbia in 1919 show it with white Vitalic tyres.

The photos are clear enough to read the sidewall details: VITALIC TIRES  DOUBLE CLINCHER  CONTINENTAL RUBBER WORKS  ERIE PA.





Best Regards,

Adrian


----------

