# I have a Question For The Collectors Concerning Decals On A Higher End 80's Road Bike



## MarkKBike (Mar 18, 2018)

I was talking to a friend of mine who owns a vintage 1986 Pinarello Montello. He has owned the bike since it was new, and he never rode it very much. He always babied it, and It has never even been loaded on a car rack. The bike is in mint condition, except for the decals..

In High School, I remember when he saved up and purchased it. We used to ride together, but would always ride around his neighborhood. He did not even like to load the bike up inside his vehicle.

At the time his father had a mid 60's Schwinn Paramont, and another vintage racing bike. He would usually ride his dads bike, instead of his.

He told me that for the first time ever, he over wintered the Pinarello in the garage, and recently noticed that the cold air must have messed with his decals, and they started to crack and flake a little bit. He was upset when he saw this.

He was researching replacement decals, and went into a bike shop. The shop told him they would leave it as is, since its all original, and that most Pinarello Montello's of that age have the same issue since the decals were placed on top of the paint, and not in it.

He is primarily interested in maintaining its collectors value.

He asked me what I thought, and told him I would check with the members here to get a solid opinion on whether or not it would be wise to replace them, or leave the bike as is.

Does any one have any thoughts on what he should do?


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## HARPO (Mar 18, 2018)

IMHO...get the decals, but don't attach them. 
If the bike is being kept for value, well,  it's only original once. When he decides to sell it the next owner can apply them. This way, the bike remains all original.


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## MarkKBike (Mar 18, 2018)

Thanks for the reply, I will let him know. He was already leaning towards leaving them as is, but said he hates to look at it now. Purchasing the replacements, but not applying them sounds like a good idea.

He was told the originals are not being made for that bike anymore, but reproductions are available.


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## MarkKBike (Mar 18, 2018)

I just spoke to the owner of the bike, and he said he will send me photos to post here in the next day or two. He has his kids today, and they are out.

He also told me That it might be a 87.  He said after I post the photos of his bike, if anyone has access to the original decals he would be interested in purchasing them (he does not want reproductions).


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## GTs58 (Mar 18, 2018)

Schwinn had the same decal problem in their last years. As far as I know, all decals are applied on top of the paint and I have no idea how anyone could apply them in the paint. If the new decals are exact duplicates and can be applied as original, I personally would replace them if the degrading originals bothered me. On a used bike that is well taken care of _maintained_ and ridden I'm sure the tires, tubes, brake pads, cables and casings, chains etc. would be replaced at some point. Does that devalue the bike and it's now considered non original? If your buddy wants an untouched 100% original wall hanger then keep it in damp garage and let it naturally _deteriorate._


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## MarkKBike (Mar 18, 2018)

I think what I had meant to say was was that they do not have a clear coat over them. and are on top of the paint. My terminology used may have not been correct.


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## bikecrazy (Mar 18, 2018)

My Pinarello track bike had the same problem. The decals looked miserable. I replaced them with graphics I got from Velocals and the bike looks great.I don’t see how having peeling decals enhances the value of a bike when it didn’t leave the factory like that.


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## bulldog1935 (Mar 18, 2018)

bikecrazy said:


> My Pinarello track bike had the same problem. The decals looked miserable. I replaced them with graphics I got from Velocals and the bike looks great.I don’t see how having peeling decals enhances the value of a bike when it didn’t leave the factory like that.



I have to agree with this.  My bikes have a mix of decals - what's left of the originals where they're okay, and Velocals or Cyclomondo reproductions where they're needed.
They're easy enough to peel off again and replace if you do find the originals.
I don't see a problem with taking Goof Off to a shot decal, removing the peeling original, polishing the paint with Meguiar's, and sticking a Velocal over the spot.
Though more expensive, Velocals will also offer any of their reproductions in waterslide.
If you can find the originals, great, but good reproductions are better than peeling original waterslides.

The one exception is my original condition '57  Lenton frame, because the ghost original decals just look too cool.
and just a few of them are still really sharp



 





 



I'll also have to admit I don't collect bikes, but build comfortable, reliable and practical bikes for me, family, and friends from classic steel frames.
I've never agreed with catalog-perfect, because even when they were new, we went to work on our classic bikes right away to  improve them and meet those same 3 priorities - comfortable, reliable, practical.  Unless you were there, you can't imagine how many Nuovo Record RD's were removed to replace with SunTour Cyclones in 1976 (it's still the best RD ever made until Campy themselves began copying the design on all their RD's in 1988).
The need to be catalog perfect is the same mentality that drives whole classic bikes to be parted out, because somebody is willing to pay too much for those parts to make their old frame catalog perfect.
While it may be a collector's dream, there's nothing sadder than a bike never ridden. (and in my case, may take liberties with the decals).


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## MarkKBike (Mar 19, 2018)

Well he sent me the photos and the bike looks to be in really nice condition. He was also wondering what it might be worth.


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## bulldog1935 (Mar 19, 2018)

1st-gen Chorus with delta brakes, 1988  - nice bike and my size, but I'm not in the market.  Hope Lou sees this.


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## dnc1 (Mar 20, 2018)

Those decals look pretty fine to me, lovely bike!
If you are ever looking for decals/waterslide transfers for some obscure British and other stuff, check out:

https://h-lloyd-cycles.myshopify.com

Biggest selection in the world, or so they claim!
Just got this one for my '30s James tandem project, lovely!


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## Bikerider007 (Mar 24, 2018)

Leave the decals if legible. If changed the originality of the bike is questioned as anyone that collects high end road will all but expect the cracking and crazing of the decals in those years. I'm on phone but appears at least crank is C-Rec as well.

I would say quick sale $800. Could go upwards of $1500+ depending on how long he waits on a local sale or if he wants to eBay it. The condition will get a good price. The downside is it appears it may have tubulars which many end up changing out of buying to ride.


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## MarkKBike (Mar 25, 2018)

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I shared the information with my friend.

The bike does have tubular tires, It was originally moved out to the garage for the first time last winter because he welcomed a new daughter into his family and the extra bedroom he was storing it in was setup for her.

He plans to keep the bike and hang it up somewhere in the house for display, he would still like to find a set of original decals if they ever come available for purchase (Just so has them, He is not planning to apply the decals, and wants to keep the bike original).

Just talking to him about his old bike has started to renew his interest in riding again. He is currently in the market for a new road bike and has been shopping around this last week, it looks like next summer I may have a new (old) riding partner. We have not rode together since the 90's, but have remained friends. Around that time I started riding mountain bikes, and his interests stuck with road bikes. Over the last couple years I have have found myself riding road bikes more than ever. (All my mountain biking friends have either moved away, or given up on the hobby years ago). So our interests in biking have sort of collided back together all these years later. I like the older bikes, and he still wants the latest and greatest he can afford.

His father still has the old 60's Schwinn Paramount, and he said he will send me some pictures of that next time he visits, I might try to pry that one away from him, if his dad is willing to sell it.

I have told him multiple times, he should just ride this Pinarello,  but he wants to keep it as nice as possible as he built it with his father years ago.

If anyone ever runs across a original set of decals for his bike, send me a message and I will let him know. (He would definitely be interested in purchase them). He is still not interested in reproductions.


.


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## dnc1 (Mar 28, 2018)

MarkKBike said:


> Thanks to everyone for the replies. I shared the information with my friend.
> 
> The bike does have tubular tires, It was originally moved out to the garage for the first time last winter because he welcomed a new daughter into his family and the extra bedroom he was storing it in was setup for her.
> 
> ...



Why not try Pinarello themselves? You never know what old stuff they may have laying around.


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## DoggieDodaac (Apr 3, 2018)

I want to find the Dick Power logo decals as well as a set of decals for my 1984 Team Fuji.


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## MarkKBike (Apr 21, 2018)

My friend who owns the Pinarello in the pictures just purchased a new crazy expensive top of the line Campy equipped Trek Madone. We were talking earlier tonight, and he asked me if I think I might be able to keep up with him on his new bike.

I had to sit though a conversation about all the advantages of carbon fiber, aerodynamics, and how his headset has flaps for the fancy brakes.

Back in the 90's he used to always destroy me on our rides together. I'm not sure what the outcome will be on first (Ride / Race),  but considering he has not ridden consistently in years, I'm hoping I might have a bit of a edge in conditioning.

I'd love to be able to leave him in the dust behind my old Schwinn Le tour, but we will have to wait and see what happens next.

He already though the challenge out there, and said he has been ridding stationary bikes in the gym this last month, and said he is ready to take me on.

Regardless of what happens, It will be good to have a old ridding partner back in the game.


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 22, 2018)

it's never the bike, it's always the motor

If he doesn't ride 50 mi/wk or more, I'd bet your friend can't keep up with me on my '57 Raleigh





or my '74 International, or '92 Viner, or '98 Moser

where the subtleties  of all that modern weight weenie tech come into play is in racing, riders all pushing the limit of human power, and any edge is needed


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## bulldog1935 (Apr 23, 2018)

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/what-bike-did-you-ride-today.61973/page-445#post-872299



MarkKBike said:


> My friend who owns the Pinarello in the pictures just purchased a new crazy expensive top of the line Campy equipped Trek Madone. We were talking earlier tonight, and he asked me if I think I might be able to keep up with him on his new bike.
> 
> I had to sit though a conversation about all the advantages of carbon fiber, aerodynamics, and how his headset has flaps for the fancy brakes.
> 
> ...



Then there's the disadvantage of carbon fiber.
If he rides the carbon fiber Madone as long as the Pinarello has been rolling, it will become a deathtrap.
Steel is the only material ever used for bike frames that has an endurance limit - a stress value below which no damage occurs under repetitive cycling loads, so that cracking and catastrophic failure will never occur.



aluminum, too




As far as speedy (spendy) electronic shifting goes - again, it's one of those fine edges that may help a racer with milliseconds, but the reason racers use it is the weight it adds to their uberlightweight carbon frame to meet homologation weight, and more so, because it gives their sponsor the exposure to sell the expensive stuff to air-, oops, I mean gearheads.
For the rest of us, when you reach that short bluff climb, why change gears when you can change attitude.


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## MarkKBike (Apr 23, 2018)

I have been partial to steel for a long time now. I have already destroyed a carbon fiber bike myself,  it was not a fault of the bike (I crashed into a tree and shattered the top tube). I once tried to be a weight weenie and used to always try to build the lightest bikes possible. I have broken a carbon frame, a carbon seat post, and some carbon handle bars. I have snapped a light weight stem, and destroyed a fancy expensive lightweight racing fork. I have found the lightest components are just not made for me.

I don't ride very aggressively of-road anymore, but one thing I have learned is I don't need the lightest stuff and have become a huge fan of steel framed bikes. I love both there ride quality, and also there durability. When I need to save a pound, I can just drink one less beer. I learned my lessons the hard way, and about 20 years ago blew a lot of cash in the process. My last several bike purchases have been for much less then I used to sometimes spend on a single component.

Once I purchased my first steel framed bike in my adult years, it just felt right.

I treat my letour pretty badly. When ridding on the street I still hop curbs, and if I see a little dirt trail off the path its often the direction I go. I consider it a ugly bike do to its condition, but it works well and Its usually the one I grab now for a quick ride. I also now have a miyata that might replace it as my favorite go to ride but since I purchased it this winter I have not yet determined which one fits me best.

I personally would no longer want a bike that I feel I would have to be careful with. You would just miss out on so many great opportunity's to explore new areas when out on a ride.

To each there own, everyone has there own thing. My friend grew up on race bikes, his grandfather raced, his dad raced, and although he never got involved in it as much as his father. His dad had him racing as a child.

Honestly he may still be able to beat me, as he naturally has a racers body type, and I have a stockier build. But I will be able to cheat and take shortcuts though the grass . There are some really well maintained winding paved bike paths in my area, and I already know all the little shortcuts. If you get out on them early enough you can beat the crowds and pretty much have them to yourself.


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