# 1909 Cycles Gladiator racer - Questions



## JHRIII (Nov 4, 2019)

I posted in the pre 1933 section but thought I'd have a little better luck here.

Outside from scouring the internet on every continent and purchasing an original 1909 catalog (that was sadly lost in the mail) that confirmed everything outside of one tire was original... I am coming up with little information on this bike.

I'm guessing many of the drivetrains back then were produced in house as there are few if any markings I've found so far. There was what appears to be a BB repair at some point (brass welding and a shim) so it's surprising how good of shape the bike is in considering how hard it was ridden.
Has anyone seen this particular brake before? It does not fit well on the stays so I assume there used to be some sort of shim or leather it could be tightened against.

Regardless of it missing most of its paint, I'm leaning towards keeping it as is BUT I would like to get it mechanically sound so looking for sources for a BB, (close to original white) tires, and wire wrapped cable housing. Can anyone here point me in the right direction?


----------



## redline1968 (Nov 4, 2019)

You might have a problem replacing that threaded cup.. it might be cross threaded. Or damaged that’s why it brazed...


----------



## JHRIII (Nov 4, 2019)

redline1968 said:


> You might have a problem replacing that threaded cup.. it might be cross threaded. Or damaged that’s why it brazed...



 I was thinking it might have kept coming loose but you could be right. Back then repairing things with brass seemed the easy/ugly fix. I'm not going to try too hard so not to damage anything (former long time bike wrench) but I'd like to get at least one side out to see what I'm dealing with. (They're super crunchy so not much I could harm)


----------



## STEVE NUTT (Dec 17, 2019)

I have 2 x Gladiators in my collection a c. 1900 & c. 1914, for pics and details have a look at my Facebook page "Nuttys Australian Bicycle Collection", look in photos, Albums, a have a Album for each bike i have posted there. The 2 Aussies that raced the 1914 TDF raced for CLEMENT cycles whom made Gladiator & Phebus...


----------



## JHRIII (Dec 20, 2019)

STEVE NUTT said:


> I have 2 x Gladiators in my collection a c. 1900 & c. 1914, for pics and details have a look at my Facebook page "Nuttys Australian Bicycle Collection", look in photos, Albums, a have a Album for each bike i have posted there. The 2 Aussies that raced the 1914 TDF raced for CLEMENT cycles whom made Gladiator & Phebus...



That's great! I have not been able to find many of the Cycles Gladiator bikes out there and no other racers. I luckily snagged an original catalog and am glad to have some actual documentation to go with it.


----------



## corbettclassics (Dec 20, 2019)

Cycles Gladiator was popularized in and around 1896/97 when the big names raced them like the Linton brothers, Jimmy Michael and others including woman ( Madame Lisette ).   Choppy Warburton coached many racers for the Gladiator team.  It's also when they were running the Simpson Chain.  I have lots and lots of photos in my archives from this time period of racers on the Gladiator cycle.  I even have in my collection an original large 1896 poster ( linen backed ) of the Gladiator Racing team - pics attached.

If one wants to learn more about the racers on the Gladiator racer then I suggest reading the book "The Little Black Bottle".  .  . pic attached of the book.


----------



## JHRIII (Dec 20, 2019)

I have read bits and pieces about Choppy and some not so shining stories about their methods. I would love to find a Simpson chain system but have only ever seen one on a bike being displayed (online, not in person) in recent years. 

Here is a pic from my 1910 CG catalog (I actually purchased a 1909 catalog but it was apparently lost in the mail so I settled for the 1910 I found). It is the same exact spec as the 1909 except in 1909 it was only offered in black. In 1910, it was offered in green with black as an option, so I am 75% sure it's a 1909... I mean, who wouldn't want it in green over that boring black? (your blue looks incredible btw).


----------



## dnc1 (Dec 31, 2019)

A Simpson Chain bicycle sold in England quite recently I believe. Not sure of the final price, but you can bet it wasn't cheap!


----------



## bulldog1935 (Dec 31, 2019)

sent me to google, and I found this


----------

