# Can someone identify age and value of this Murray PaceMaker bicycle?



## Brew (Dec 1, 2013)

This bike belonged to my mother. Since she was born in 1930 I would assume the bike is from the early 40's, ie pre-war. I have some photos of my mother with this very bike somewhere, as far as provenance goes.

All I know is that it is a PaceMaker ladies bike.

It's in rusted condition due to it being stored many many years in the barn. But I think it would make for a great restoration job.

I am still trying to locate the seat. I saw it a month ago or so so I know it's around here somewhere.

Any help would be appreciated!


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## redline1968 (Dec 1, 2013)

Probably 39-40. Road master brand pacemaker.good candidate to restore. Or leave it like it is


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## Brew (Dec 1, 2013)

redline1968 said:


> Probably 39-40. Road master brand pacemaker.good candidate to restore. Or leave it like it is




Thanks redline 

Can you tell me if this bike would have a serial number?

I can't locate it on the frame.


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## poolboy1 (Dec 1, 2013)

Brew said:


> Thanks redline
> 
> Can you tell me if this bike would have a serial number?
> 
> I can't locate it on the frame.





Roadmaster not a Pacemaker.


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## bikewhorder (Dec 1, 2013)

poolboy1 said:


> Roadmaster not a Pacemaker.




Well the badge definitely says Pacemaker but that's a new one for me.  This is what most people think of when you say ladies pacemaker, Brew. http://www.bicyclebill.com/Bikecomppages/Mercury.html


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## Brew (Dec 1, 2013)

bikewhorder said:


> Well the badge definitely says Pacemaker but that's a new one for me.  This is what most people think of when you say ladies pacemaker, Brew. http://www.bicyclebill.com/Bikecomppages/Mercury.html




Not only the badge but the text above the box thing says PaceMaker.

I've been searching all over and I can not find another one like this....even using Google and the images in Google.

I was under the impression that this is a Murray bike until redline said it's a RoadMaster.

I need to know which it is in order to know the value and whether it's worth having restored.

I've seen the paceMakers in those images. Sorta like the World's Fair edition I think.


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## jpromo (Dec 1, 2013)

Build by Cleveland Welding Company, it's a Roadmaster that was just badged differently. Different than the Murray built Pacemaker. There were a lot of names used by several companies before the whole trademark wars began.. now, companies make sure to stamp MINE on everything.

If you look up a 1939-40 Roadmaster, you'll see similar bikes. I actually had an identical one last year in much rougher shape. The serial will be under the bottom bracket/crank and I expect it to start somewhere in the E, F, G range. Good bike, maybe not worth putting a whole restoration on but a good cleanup and reassembly would do it a world of good. The color scheme is great. Quite the deluxe bike, too.


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## poolboy1 (Dec 1, 2013)

Brew said:


> Not only the badge but the text above the box thing says PaceMaker.
> 
> I've been searching all over and I can not find another one like this....even using Google and the images in Google.
> 
> ...




I have had a few Worlds fair boys and girls and have never seen one look like that... Looks like a girls Roadmaster or Hawthorn? badge or not i think at some point someone put another one on there? I personally would not restore unless it means something to you.


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## Brew (Dec 1, 2013)

I don't understand because PaceMaker is not only on the badge but it's painted on the center bar too, as seen here:


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## poolboy1 (Dec 1, 2013)

Could be a bastard bike... i personally would put it together and clean it up and ride it but really not worth restoring IMO.


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## Boris (Dec 1, 2013)

I'm 100% in agreement with jpromo on this. This bike is Cleveland Welding all the way, right down to the Pacemaker headbadge. I too have an incomplete Cleveland Welding Pacemaker with this badge (wrong chainguard though). I was told by a Cleveland Welding expert that this Pacemaker Badge is plausible for this bike. Post your serial number which is on the underside of the bottom bracket.


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## Brew (Dec 1, 2013)

Dave Marko said:


> I'm 100% in agreement with jpromo on this. This bike is Cleveland Welding all the way, right down to the Pacemaker headbadge. I too have an incomplete Cleveland Welding Pacemaker with this badge (wrong chainguard though). I was told by a Cleveland Welding expert that this Pacemaker Badge is plausible for this bike. Post your serial number which is on the underside of the bottom bracket.
> 
> View attachment 125460 View attachment 125461




I will try again to find the serial number tomorrow.

It has a kick stand that I haven't seen on a bike this age too. It's a triangular affair that attaches to the rear axle.

You can see the kick stand here:


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## jpromo (Dec 1, 2013)

The strange kickstand you're talking about is period correct aftermarket but the dropstand which is on it is much more appropriate so forget about the axle mounted thing.

Definitely not a bastard bike. It actually looks all intact and mostly correct. The Roadmaster I pictured was badged Fleet Wing and it had that decal on the downtube just as yours has Pacemaker. It does get confusing but sometimes what the headbadge says means next to nothing about the maker or model of the bike. The shape of it, however, is the iconic CWC shield.


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## Brew (Dec 1, 2013)

I really appreciate everyone's help 

I meant the drop stand I guess. And after I look at the pics I see it's not attached to the axle, but rather to the frame. Also, the rear fender has the wiggley thing where the drop stand snaps into.

I'm still searching all over and now I've been searching Roadmaster bikes but I still can't find one exactly like this one. Like the headlight and shock absorber rods going down to the forks. And on the tank looking thing there is a button on the top and a switch on the bottom. I figure one must be for the headlight but what would the button be for and would that tell me more about who the manufacturer and date would be?


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## bikewhorder (Dec 1, 2013)

This may give you a sense as to what its worth. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/30s-Prewar-...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 

Granted yours has a tank and different light but I think if you could get that much for it you'd be doing pretty good. A proper restoration would set you back a couple grand at least, I'd just clean it up and replace the soft parts that have rotted away and keep it as original as possible.


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## slick (Dec 1, 2013)

bikewhorder said:


> This may give you a sense as to what its worth.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/30s-Prewar-...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> 
> Granted yours has a tank and different light but I think if you could get that much for it you'd be doing pretty good. A proper restoration would set you back a couple grand at least, I'd just clean it up and replace the soft parts that have rotted away and keep it as original as possible.






I agree with bikewhorder. The bike is great as is. Where else have you seen that Pacemaker decal still intact on a downtube? Pretty darn neat if you ask me. She needs a nice cleaning, a service job to all the bearings, true the rims, and add some nice vintage tires and ride her again. It even has the RARE U.S. Royal chain tread whitewalls on it. Too bad they are too far gone... Great bike and thanks for sharing. If she needs a new home, Karla could always add one more to her collection i'm sure. I sent you a Pm.


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## scrubbinrims (Dec 1, 2013)

Plenty of CWC models out there to reference similar to and like this...you needn't ask about the manufacturer anymore as it Cleveland Welding without question.
1940 is my opinion having the light attached to the prewar shockmaster fork and considering everything else.
The switch controlled the light, button the internal horn.
Chris


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## fordsnake (Dec 1, 2013)

What you need to do is reach out to Phil (RMS37) he's the CWC expert. Everyone else is making a guess as to your bike. Find your serial # and post it here…http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?2705-Cleveland-Welding-S-N-Project
then read that thread in depth to get a knowledgeable handle as to the Cleveland Welding Co. They made several models under different badge names 













That deco design was used on several CWC's models...it was also flipped upside down. 










Here are three Fleetwings, similar to your bike but with a flipped badge. http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?35374-Fleetwing-what-year 

http://www.deadcatz.com/1936_fleet_wing_pix.html 

http://www.prices4antiques.com/Bicycle-Cleveland-Welding-Fleetwing-Female-Frame-Original-circa-1940-D9795812.html


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## Hubs-n-Spokes (Dec 1, 2013)

As a few have said, your bicycle was made by the Cleveland Welding Company and without seeing the serial number I'm going to guess between 1939 and 1941.
I have seen your badge several times on several different styles of CWC bicycles. I have not seen your color combination too often though. You seem to have all the parts and I would suggest giving her a thorough careful cleaning and you may be surprised at the results! 
I think you have a very nice bicycle there.


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## jkent (Dec 2, 2013)

Would this not be the same as a CWC built Comet?


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## Brew (Dec 2, 2013)

I found the seat that I think belongs to this bike.

It looks pretty old and seems to be in very good condition.

Does this seat belong with my bike?


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## Freqman1 (Dec 2, 2013)

Nope. That seat is probably off of a 50s/60s bike. Look at the bike Jpromo posted--you need a seat like that. V/r Shawn


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## Brew (Dec 2, 2013)

Freqman1 said:


> Nope. That seat is probably off of a 50s/60s bike. Look at the bike Jpromo posted--you need a seat like that. V/r Shawn




Oh, ok

I remember seeing a seat like that. But it looked like new, IIRC, so I dismissed it as being part of this bike.

The issue I'm having is that everything is in boxes. It's gonna take a long time to figure out which box it would be in. The seat I pictured was near the bike in the barn. But I think there was another one there too, but put away in a box.

My wife says we don't have room to house the bike. Anyone have an idea what the value, as-is, would be for the bike?


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## fordsnake (Dec 2, 2013)

Brew said:


> I found the seat. It looks pretty old. Does this seat belong with my bike?




First, I'd like to welcome you to this forum...there's a wealth of knowledge that can be gained from the many members that visit here daily.  So far we've shared; your bike was mfg by CWC, we've supplied visual references and even narrowed down its possible years? Now it's incumbent on you to step up and participate in the process? Look closely at your found seat...then compare  it to any prewar bike saddle (remember your moms' bike is a late or early 1940's model) Then compare your saddle to a 50's or 60's light weight bike saddle...do you see any differences in the seat styles?  It's obvious your mom's saddle was switched out at some point?

The 3 common mistakes the neophyte makes when restoring or collecting a bike; the number ONE mistake, not doing the homework and understanding the nuances of their bike. The second and third mistakes...not understanding the importance of the first mistake!


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## Freqman1 (Dec 2, 2013)

Brew said:


> Oh, ok
> 
> I remember seeing a seat like that. But it looked like new, IIRC, so I dismissed it as being part of this bike.
> 
> ...




There's plenty of room in the house for the bike--just get rid of some of her crap! Just joking-kinda! V/r Shawn


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## Brew (Dec 2, 2013)

Freqman1 said:


> There's plenty of room in the house for the bike--just get rid of some of her crap! Just joking-kinda! V/r Shawn




The underlying issue is that my Mother passed away earlier this year. I have inherited so much stuff that most of it is still boxed up. So room is at a premium until we go through all the stuff,  I understand her position.

Even though I really want to fix up the bike there is neither room or money to do so 

I really appreciate everyone's help. I've learned a lot about old bikes. Maybe someday I'll get into this as a hobby or something.

I guess I'll put the bike up on eBay and see what happens.

Cheers!


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