# Help identifying barn finds - Iver Johnson & Unknown



## mglmrgn (Feb 22, 2014)

Hi everyone,

A bought a house and found a few bikes in a barn on the property. I know little to nothing about them. One of them is an Iver Johnson and the other has no markings that I can find though it seems interesting and has a skip link chain. I posted on another bike forum and it was suggested I post here. Any information you can give me - year, model, value - would be greatly appreciated! If you need more pictures I'd be happy to take and post them.

Thanks!


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## bikewhorder (Feb 22, 2014)

How do people get so lucky!


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## willswares1220 (Feb 22, 2014)

Hi mglmrgn,

I have interest in purchasing one of them. Bike # 1   ( PM sent )


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## Coaster Brake (Feb 22, 2014)

bikewhorder said:


> How do people get so lucky!




I wish I knew...


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## mercrod (Feb 22, 2014)

Good looking bikes!!!!

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk


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## scrubbinrims (Feb 22, 2014)

You are now in the lead for the find of the year!
I cannot tell you the value of machine #1, but I can say you'll be excited about it.
Chris


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## jkent (Feb 22, 2014)

Very nice bikes both of them!


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## Wheeled Relics (Feb 22, 2014)

*Beautiful*

Looks similar to a Lovell Diamond. Remarkable condition for their age!


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## TINYuproar (Feb 22, 2014)

Bike 1 = Safety bike.  Likely preteen or even late 19th century.  Value in that condition between 2k-3k.  It's a true and very beautiful museum piece.  I/J Arch bar probably $1500-2K.  That's why everyone's falling all over themselves, but no one seems to be able to list value.  They are both very lovely and I am very jealous of your luck.  As an artist and someone extremely interested in transportational industrial design, I would love nothing more than to simply photograph the Turn of the Century Safety Bike.  I LOVE the unusual curves in the frame.  Of course value does fluctuate with some missing components.  The pedals are not original on either bike.  PM me if you have any questions.   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kccomet (Feb 22, 2014)

what great finds, ive sent you a pm under notifications


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## okozzy (Feb 22, 2014)

*Wow....*

First bike, hard tire safety came right after high wheel bike era; most likely late 1880's to very early 1890's. Folks spend years searching for bikes like these.

What ever you do, please treat them respectfully.

Cheers.


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## olderthandirt (Feb 22, 2014)

*Wow*

WOW two hundred times


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## walter branche (Feb 23, 2014)

*my offer is 2,000*



mglmrgn said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> A bought a house and found a few bikes in a barn on the property. I know little to nothing about them. One of them is an Iver Johnson and the other has no markings that I can find though it seems interesting and has a skip link chain. I posted on another bike forum and it was suggested I post here. Any information you can give me - year, model, value - would be greatly appreciated! If you need more pictures I'd be happy to take and post them.
> 
> Thanks!




2,000 for the 1st example .  407 697 3999   branchewalter@yahoo.comhere are mine ,


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## bike (Feb 23, 2014)

*Do not clean your bikes*

any cleaning will devalue the bikes- do not even wash them with water.

You got very lucky - bide your time and do your research.


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## mike j (Feb 23, 2014)

Holy Hotcakes!!! Anything else in that barn?


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## Handyman (Feb 23, 2014)

*Iver Johnson Truss Bridge Roadster*

WOW!!!  What A Find!!  That Iver is a very collectable bike.  I'd say it's somewhere between 1916 and 1921ish as it has the early style fenders and badge.  Even in its "as found"condition, I believe it would bring somewhere around $800 to $1000 on eBay. Great example of an original and untouched bike.  Pete in Fitchburg


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## OldRider (Feb 23, 2014)

Stunning barn finds! I love that seat on the first one, and that wild seat tube. This gives us hope that not everything has been found yet, they're still out there.


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## mre straightbar (Feb 23, 2014)

*it looks like a hard tired bike*



TINYuproar said:


> Bike 1 = Safety bike.  Likely preteen or even late 19th century.  Value in that condition between 2k-3k.  It's a true and very beautiful museum piece.  I/J Arch bar probably $1500-2K.  That's why everyone's falling all over themselves, but no one seems to be able to list value.  They are both very lovely and I am very jealous of your luck.  As an artist and someone extremely interested in transportational industrial design, I would love nothing more than to simply photograph the Turn of the Century Safety Bike.  I LOVE the unusual curves in the frame.  Of course valueearly does fluctuate with some missing components.  The pedals are not original on either bike.  PM me if you have any questions.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



earlier then what you think


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## mre straightbar (Feb 23, 2014)

*it looks like a hard tired bike*



TINYuproar said:


> Bike 1 = Safety bike.  Likely preteen or even late 19th century.  Value in that condition between 2k-3k.  It's a true and very beautiful museum piece.  I/J Arch bar probably $1500-2K.  That's why everyone's falling all over themselves, but no one seems to be able to list value.  They are both very lovely and I am very jealous of your luck.  As an artist and someone extremely interested in transportational industrial design, I would love nothing more than to simply photograph the Turn of the Century Safety Bike.  I LOVE the unusual curves in the frame.  Of course valueearly does fluctuate with some missing components.  The pedals are not original on either bikemi.  PM me if you have any questions.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



earlier then what you think
earlier than you think


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## mre straightbar (Feb 23, 2014)

*wtf?*

I need  computer
Not ghttro pcs


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## MOTOmike (Feb 23, 2014)

*What a Find!!!*

You are very lucky to have "found" these bikes.  
I do not know much about bike #1 (looks 1890's-ish to me), but I do know enough to say that this is the kind of bike you would see in a museum.

For the Iver Johnson, with the exception of the seat missing, it does look to be complete and original, including the pedals (my opinion).  If you provide the six digit serial number (likely located on the frame near the seat post), the year of manufacture can probably be tied down to within a year, give or take one year.  Because the seat is missing, I would place a value of $950 to $1,150 on bike #2 if everything is straight and there is no serious damage.

Mike


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## Duchess (Feb 23, 2014)

WOW, that 1890's bike is gorgeous! I would have been excited just to find a 1970s Peugeot or something, never mind a very nice Iver Johnson and that museum-quality 19th Century bike! If I wasn't still rebuilding savings, I'd make you an offer on #1. That bike is a real work of art.


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## mglmrgn (Feb 23, 2014)

Hi everyone,
First I just want to say THANK YOU for all of the messages, information, and offers I've received on these bikes. It's truly been overwhelming. I'm still replying to messages, but it's taking a while to get through them all. Meanwhile, I'm also trying to find out more information about the bikes. The good news is that from everything I've read and been told, it's all original including the pedals. In the mean time I'm basically not touching them, and definitely not cleaning them! I'll update this thread when I have more information, or if you'd like me to contact you about the bicycles, send me your contact information in a PM! Thanks again!


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## Duchess (Feb 23, 2014)

And I don't like to speak for everyone else, but it's probably pretty safe to say it would be great to see even more pictures!


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## dave the wave (Feb 23, 2014)

*do your research first*

here ya go use this link  http://www.copakeauction.com/bicycles/pages/catalogs.html     and go through the past sales catalogs and see if you can find one that looks like your bike.and then you will get a value of it.  and try here   http://www.thewheelmen.org/    and as always my advice is free of charge.i do take canned food donations tho.


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## tailhole (Feb 23, 2014)

Those are fantastic finds!  Good luck with whatever you decide to do with them!


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## Lawrence Ruskin (Feb 23, 2014)

Yep, do your research, find out what you have. Take a year or so.   I am fairly sure I saw a very early Rover, which is where bicycling came from, in other words the first modern bicycle snatched up on this site. 

The guy that had it was from Russia.

Do your research. You are swimming in a pool of sharks.


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## walter branche (Feb 23, 2014)

*2,000*

my offer is only to keep everyone on track , I will buy the bike as soon as a fair price is found , there is no set price , copake is an auction environment,where you will pay a price for the exposure , i will travel to pick the machine up ,and keep it from needing shipping ,, if I do not get the bike ,, I have the tires and the brake system for whoever ends up with the bike . they are not rare to people who have knowledge of these early bikes , . the situation of how this machine is found or discovered is rare,,. I am not trying to take advantage of anyone , . I look forward to hearing the rest of the story ..  walter branche ,,searching and selecting


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## Balloontyre (Feb 23, 2014)

Lawrence Ruskin said:


> You are swimming in a pool of sharks.



Seems $2000lb test line is being used. Should land a big one.


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## olderthandirt (Feb 25, 2014)

*early bike*

i made a couple of offers on two early bikes last year in similar condition , two very early Iver Johnson,s  $8000.00 would not do the deal ,i wonder if it would today ? seems the bike market is a little cooler l,K_P)


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## walter branche (Feb 25, 2014)

*what*

what type of bikes ??, that seems like a thread ,written to try and upset the karma, you must have been trying to purchase bikes that were not for sale to begin with , . walter branche


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## willswares1220 (Feb 25, 2014)

It always comes down to  " If I can't have it, nobody can "   
The "monkey wrench" is always thrown in to upset any potential sale to a fellow collector that would treasure the bicycle........
It never changes.


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## jkent (Feb 25, 2014)

$8,000 would be way over the top on these bike and I think anyone in there right mind would know that. With the exception of the owner (Unless the owner has really done there homework )and this I feel is just an attempt to sabotage the chance of anyone else ever getting these bikes. 
If your willing to throw down $8k on these 2 bikes your an idiot. 
No doubt they are 2 very fine bikes but  for that kind of money I think ANYONE could walk into a museum and buy 2 bikes of equal or better quality straight off the floor. 
Come on man really????? 
Yes sure you can go back and look at past auctions like Copake but you really need to keep in mind. Auctions like this bring in people from all over the world and also have online bidders fighting over these bikes. An auction that numbers buy the thousands and has bikes by the hundreds. Not just 2 bikes that where pulled from a garage and put a few pictures up on a forum asking for peoples opinions. You also have the opportunity to see in person, what your going to be bidding on in advance.


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## willswares1220 (Feb 25, 2014)

Thanks jkent!

You make sense out of all this..

By the way, your avatar is fitting to your reply!


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## olderthandirt (Feb 25, 2014)

*early over johnson and columbia*

Geez guys never said these two bicycles and don't have a clue as to what there worth. the two bikes i tried to purchase were owned by two different folks and they were for sale and have been sold but my offer was not enough <even thou i thought i would own at least one of them >i wonder what they sold for ? and like i said this was a year ago and i think the market has cooled off a bit ,i did buy some other bikes 3 old  Ivers a mead and two toc Columbia"s  a chainless and a1890,s mens chain drive  a 70's Schwinn Paramount and a 60,s Frejus , so at the time i was chomping at the bits for a nice early bike and i bought a few .and a lot of other old bicycle rims, hubs ,kerosene lamps ,cyclometers ,tires tubes sew ups Cinelli track stems and track bars several sets of nos pedal's , head badges ,tire levers a case of latex adhesive ,several nos campagnolo headsets a complete Campagnolo group nos super record and a lot of rare and valuable stuff ,Walter i am not trying to rock anyones boat.i do this for fun


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## willswares1220 (Feb 25, 2014)

You are forgiven!!


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## Wheeled Relics (Feb 25, 2014)

*Wheeled Relics*

American bicycle history

View attachment 139443


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## walter branche (Feb 25, 2014)

*thanks*

nice ,thanks for the view ,,is it a tin type photo??


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## Wayne Adam (Feb 25, 2014)

*where?*

I'm not asking for your exact location, just wondering what State these were found in..............Wayne


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## jkent (Feb 25, 2014)

The bikes are located in New England


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## PatTheSlat (Feb 26, 2014)

Wheeled Relics said:


> American bicycle history
> 
> View attachment 139443




File name "1889ColumbiaTinType.jpg".  That looks exactly like the OP's bike to me, looks like we have a winner.  OP, the guy who runs vintagecolumbiabikes.com may be interested in seeing some pictures of your bike.  He has catalogs all the way back to 1879 (though not posted online), he may be able to find the original catalog page for yours.


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## walter branche (Feb 26, 2014)

*1889 columbia it is not*

not a 1889 columbia , ,i know the correct i d , columbia did not use that sprocket , columbia did not use rollar block chain, columbia never had a frame like what is shown ,, branchewalter@yahoo.com


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## oldspoke (Feb 26, 2014)

*The "Chicago" Safety*

Hello All,
The odd framed HTS is the "Chicago" sold by Von Lengerke and Antione, 246 Wabash Ave. Chicago Ill. 1891. V.L. and A. were sporting goods dealers on par and competing with Abercrombe and Fitch .V.L. and A. sold the New Mail as well. Another of their models was the "Courier" also a mens HTS. If anyone happened to see a fine cycle offered at the flea market at Copake this past Spring by Via it may have been the "Courier". V.L. and A. were also gun dealers. They are said to have indirectly supplied many depression era gangsters with guns like the Thompson Sub-machine Gun. One customer was Alphonse Capone and in one article the weapons used in the St, Valentines Day Massacre were said to have come from Von Lengerke and Antioine. I don't think that they manufactured bikes but may have bought these as frames/parts and private labeled them. Just speculation on my part though.
The I.J. looks like a 1910's to mid teens machine but I am not sure. Both are nice original bikes.
Cool tin type !
Glenn


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## dfa242 (Feb 26, 2014)

Hey Glenn,
Thanks for this great info - can always count on you.
See you in Copake,
Dean


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## willswares1220 (Feb 26, 2014)

Oldspoke,

Thanks for sharing the information on what brand "HTS bicycle" that barn find is..
That's whats nice about The Cabe forum. The wealth of information from the members!


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## dave the wave (Feb 26, 2014)

I thought Walter  knew what it was,it just goes to show that there are all kinds of nice people willing to HELP OUT FOR FREE ON THE CABE.


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## walter branche (Feb 26, 2014)

*yes,*

yes we have messages about the bikes , i am trying to find an original ad for her ,, i have been looking through a bunch of books and such , . these type bikes represent an era of transportation , and they are difficult to ride or should i say uncomfortable , .. The company that sold these bikes also were selling bikes like I ride ,,my 1891 new mail hard tired safety ,, thanks .. whoever gets the bike should get in touch with me ,, i can help with the tires and the brake system , .. the reason this bike does not show much wear ,, is because they are not easy to ride , ,and whoever bought it back in 91 found out ,..  walter branche when i say uncomfortable or difficult to ride , i was not trying to manipulate the final sale price , ,my offer of 2,000 ,was a fare price in my thinking , as always there will be someone who will offer more , i was giving a fare amount ,so other would not be offering 500.00 or 1,000 so forth so on , good luck to the new owner ,.. wpb


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## oldspoke (Feb 27, 2014)

*Chicago - Images*

Hello All,
Here are some images from the 1891 V.L. and A. catalog. I was wrong about the possibility of the Copake swap bike being the Courier model. They were different but here is the "Chicago".


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## willswares1220 (Feb 27, 2014)

oldspoke,

Thanks for sharing the catalog information on that 1891 Chicago HTS.
Interesting stuff!!


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## walter branche (Feb 27, 2014)

*thank you*

Thanks to Glenn for revealing the information,. looking forward to hearing how this machine rides ,,  walter branche


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## willswares1220 (Feb 27, 2014)

A "Courier/Tornado" bare-bones frame just sold on ebay recently for a very cheap price.
An exact match to that one in the ad.


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