# Zep project



## Jose (Mar 3, 2014)

Is the only difference from Zep to Zep the head badge? How could you tell? I'm 90% sure this one's a Rollfast. The Harvard crankset came with frame.


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## rustjunkie (Mar 3, 2014)

What I don't know could just barely be squeezed into Candlestick Park, but I think there are lots of differences.
Locking fork, different tank, frame is different: ears for drop stand are on the fender braces, not the dropouts.
Bars should be cross-braced, but with removable brace.
Hawthorne Zep would have chainring different than that DP Harris.
The Rollfast lit I've seen calls these frames Motobike.


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## Jose (Mar 3, 2014)

alw said:


> What I don't know could just barely be squeezed into Candlestick Park, but I think there are lots of differences.
> Locking fork, different tank, frame is different: ears for drop stand are on the fender braces, not the dropouts.
> Bars should be cross-braced, but with removable brace.
> Hawthorne Zep would have chainring different than that DP Harris.
> The Rollfast lit I've seen calls these frames Motobike.



Wow....Thanks


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## rustjunkie (Mar 3, 2014)

Jose said:


> Wow....Thanks




de nada. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEWLY-REVIS...NS-HAWTHORNE-Bicycles-Reference-/291075473211

http://www.ebay.com/itm/classic-ROL...ris-HP-Snyder-for-antique-bikes-/301086983285


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## Freqman1 (Mar 3, 2014)

There have been several threads on the forum discussing these frames/bikes. This is not a "Zep". The Zep was a Hawthorned model. The early ones were made by HP Snyder and some of the later ones by both Snyder and CWC (I believe). All true Zeps will have a locking fork as far as I know. But then again everything I know about these would probably fit in a thmble! You might want to spend a little time searching the forum because I believe RMS37 provided some good info on these. V/r Shawn

PS found a link that may be helpful.  

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?22009-True-Zep-for-sale-on-Ratrod&highlight=hawthorne


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## rollfaster (Mar 3, 2014)

*Listen to this guy*



alw said:


> What I don't know could just barely be squeezed into Candlestick Park, but I think there are lots of differences.
> Locking fork, different tank, frame is different: ears for drop stand are on the fender braces, not the dropouts.
> Bars should be cross-braced, but with removable brace.
> Hawthorne Zep would have chainring different than that DP Harris.
> The Rollfast lit I've seen calls these frames Motobike.




He has one or two or ten of these bikes. And very well educated on them too!


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## jpromo (Mar 3, 2014)

The Zep name has become synonymous with this frame, when, in reality, Zep was the name of a specific deluxe model. Fastback is the moniker that seems to make more sense to describe the frame, but Zep has just been ingrained in the bicycle lexicon for a while.


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## fordsnake (Mar 3, 2014)

I encourage you to read the many past threads on the "Zep"...Phil (RMS37) has explained the nuances in great detail several times.  




The Hawthorne "ZEP" 













A curved down tube??


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## rustjunkie (Mar 3, 2014)

alw said:


> *What I don't know could just barely be squeezed into Candlestick Park*...frame is different: ears for drop stand are on the fender braces, not the dropouts.
> Bars should be cross-braced, but with removable brace....


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## rollfaster (Mar 3, 2014)

*What to I call this old rollfast heap?*

I guess I fell into this catagory, been calling it a zep because of the frame style.rob.


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## rustjunkie (Mar 3, 2014)

To be fair to the OP, searching "zep" in the search box at top right, or via the advanced search yields this:

The following words are either very common, too long, or too short and were not included in your search: 
zep

If a user ID is added, the result is the same.


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## fordsnake (Mar 3, 2014)

The Rollfast and Snyder "Fastback" .


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## fat tire trader (Mar 3, 2014)

Jose said:


> Is the only difference from Zep to Zep the head badge? How could you tell? I'm 90% sure this one's a Rollfast. The Harvard crankset came with frame.



The "H" in the sprocket stands for D. P. Harris, the company that made Rollfast, Harvard, may Hawthornes, etc...


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## jpromo (Mar 3, 2014)

fat tire trader said:


> The "H" in the sprocket stands for D. P. Harris, the company that made Rollfast, Harvard, may Hawthornes, etc...




DP Harris has proved a tricky point. The conclusion I've drawn is that the hardware chain did not build bicycles themselves, but rather, they outfitted Snyder-built frames with their own equipment variations, like the chainring and some other items. The lug where the top bar meets the seat tube is a distinct Snyder frame feature on these fastback frames. So what they become is DP Harris outfitted, HP Snyder-built Rollfast bicycles. Not confusing at all..!

Any other thoughts? This is just educated conjecture.


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## rustjunkie (Mar 3, 2014)

jpromo said:


> ...the hardware chain did not build bicycles themselves, but rather, they outfitted Snyder-built frames with their own equipment variations, like the chainring and some other items. The lug where the top bar meets the seat tube is a distinct Snyder frame feature on these fastback frames.




yup.
I've heard folks say these frames were made by 2 different mf'rs, but I've only seen one type. As of now: IMO they were only Snyder.


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## Jose (Mar 7, 2014)

All these bikes are awesome. Thanks for all the pics.


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## fordsnake (Mar 7, 2014)

Read Phil's (RMS37) wonderful description #3 http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?22009-True-Zep-for-sale-on-Ratrod&p=112772#post112772


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## rollfaster (Mar 8, 2014)

*My old heap*



57 spitfire said:


> I guess I fell into this catagory, been calling it a zep because of the frame style.rob.




I'm now calling it by its proper name I think, 1937 rollfast fastback sport.


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## rustjunkie (Mar 8, 2014)

57 spitfire said:


> I'm now calling it by its proper name I think, 1937 rollfast fastback sport.




Since "fastback" was not originally used as a descriptor, IMO a proper name would be 1937 Rollfast Motobike.


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## rollfaster (Mar 8, 2014)

*Great!*

My 1937 rollfast motobike old heap.


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## Jose (Mar 8, 2014)

57 spitfire said:


> I'm now calling it by its proper name I think, 1937 rollfast fastback sport.



Thanks for the info....I called a it a Zep just because cause of the frame and tank style. The bars in picture are actually to a elgin think I grab by mistake. I have the bars but No cross brace and the neck is one with the 3 grooves in it almost like all Rollfast bikes.


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## rustjunkie (Mar 8, 2014)

Jose said:


> ...the neck is one with the 3 grooves in it almost like all Rollfast bikes.


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## Jose (Mar 8, 2014)

My bad....But as for options on bike like locking forks and tank. Those were options that could be added to the bike like what you do with a car Correct! Só you could have bought a stripped versión of a Zep back in the 30's or am I wrong. Or does that make it a entirely different bike.


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## Jose (Mar 8, 2014)

Jose said:


> My bad....But as for options on bike like locking forks and tank. Those were options that could be added to the bike like what you do with a car Correct! Só you could have bought a stripped versión of a Zep back in the 30's or am I wrong. Or does that make it a entirely different bike.



I'm gonna re-titled this page my ratrod Rollfast


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## Barto (Oct 31, 2016)

I recently bought a Hawthorne that has the basic "Fastback" frame.  When I first was on the prowl for it I too called them Zep's, I quickly found that not only was mine not a Zep, many whom I asked didn't know the details either.  I'm going to go back and re-read these thread to find out more.  one this I do know is "real" Zeps are out of my bike price range.  I love my Prewar Hawthorn but want to eventually  make a partial trade for a Colson with a tank , carrier and the famous turkey wing...love those bikes...


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