# Professional vs Amateur restoration



## Stinky_Sullivan (May 28, 2013)

These terms have always bothered me. What is the distinction between the two? I don't see any reason why anyone with patience and minimum space and equipment can't do a full and proper restoration of a bike, car, or anything else. It would be more difficult but not impossible. Should the distinction be about quality and not the profession of the craftsman? Doesn't "amateur restoration" really mean "crappy restoration"?


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## Nick-theCut (May 28, 2013)

I see where your going with this.
I to think an amateur can do a professional restoration.  Just that most don't... I would assume.  
Pros do it right and pay attention to the romantic details.  With time, anyone with the knowledge can do the same work.  You're probably outsourcing the work as a amateur a lot more, raising the price of the process.
It's good to be a pro in my opinion.  Done faster and cheaper.  Please disagree, that's my thought.
-    Nick


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## slick (May 28, 2013)

An amateur resto in my opinion goes like this:
Rattle can paint
Just rough up the paint and shoot
Graphics and colors of them are not correct
chrome was not redone. Just cleaned up or swapped for some better original chrome
incorrect parts
seat was recovered in vinyl
new made in taiwan tires, etc........

A proffesional restoration is:
Automotive 2 stage paint shot out of a gun in a spray booth
All the parts get sandblasted down and metal finished to the best ability
Correct and accurate colors and placement on the tins
fully rechromed parts
original NOS tires 
And last but not least, a Bob U restored seat

Just my .02


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## old hotrod (May 28, 2013)

I am far too critical but in my opinion, it is mostly a matter of semantics...most of the "restorations" (amatuer or pro) I have seen have been nothing more than refurbishes with incorrect plating, parts, pins, colors etc...and this is the collector hobby wide and the same with cars, boats, clocks, etc...you get the idea. Typically, it takes a devoted individual (pro=paid or whatever) to properly research what truly needs to be done to do a correct restoration. And in the end, it is still up to the end user-customer to be happy regardless of what we sticklers call it or the title given to those that do the actual work...


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## Freqman1 (May 29, 2013)

old hotrod said:


> I am far too critical but in my opinion, it is mostly a matter of semantics...most of the "restorations" (amatuer or pro) I have seen have been nothing more than refurbishes with incorrect plating, parts, pins, colors etc...and this is the collector hobby wide and the same with cars, boats, clocks, etc...you get the idea. Typically, it takes a devoted individual (pro=paid or whatever) to properly research what truly needs to be done to do a correct restoration. And in the end, it is still up to the end user-customer to be happy regardless of what we sticklers call it or the title given to those that do the actual work...




I agree. At MLC this year there was a high end resto done by a "pro" that was lacking details to make the bike accurate. A lot of a proper resto is research and not cutting corners. V/r Shawn


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## MrColumbia (May 29, 2013)

The old expression is "the devil is in the details". Strictly speaking "professional" is a term that means someone who is paid for their trade. I have seen plenty of paid for restorations that are all wrong. Yes, they have 2 stage automotive paint and are very dazzling to the eye but as a "restoration" goes, they have failed to replicate what the bike would have looked like out of the factory.

As has been said previously, correct color schemes, proper plating where it should be done and correct parts all go into an exceptional restoration. Many paid restorers can get all of these things wrong.  Research is where it needs to start. 

After the research is done skills need to be employed to ensure good results. Often armatures don't have these skills but sometimes they do. If so, an armature can combine all of what is said here and do a proper and exceptional restoration.  

One thing I would like to note is paint. I often see the opinion that only a 2 stage automotive paint is correct for a professional restoration. Correct me if I'm wrong but most to not all bikes we are talking about on this site never had the benefit of such a painting system. Many had a single stage oven baked enamel. It is possible to "over restore" a bike with too elaborate finishes. If we get into the antiques paint was even more primitive. The old Columbia's had enamel that was brushed on, oven baked then hand rubbed to a smooth luster. This process was repeated several times on each bike. In the late 40's they even went through a period of dipping the frame in a vat of paint and letting them drip dry. Restorers, don't try that at home! Also, the paint in a rattle can now is far better than the old enamels from say 80 years ago. I think a good paint job is part period correct and part ascetically pleasing to the modernly trained eye.


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## partsguy (May 29, 2013)

slick said:


> An amateur resto in my opinion goes like this:
> Rattle can paint
> Just rough up the paint and shoot
> Graphics and colors of them are not correct
> ...




I ride the bikes I rebuild, refurbish, and the ones I restore ground-up. I never half-ass anything, so when I get ahold of something, it's done right. The only half-ass job I did was my first, which was a 1963 Colmbia Torpedo. Many lessons were learned the hard way on that and I'm going to soon do it over again correctly. So are you saying now that no matter what I do to a bike, it's not considered a restoration unless I park it on a bike stand for God knows how long to find NOS tires from the 50s or 60s?


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## Freqman1 (May 29, 2013)

By the technical definition of the word-yes it would have to have original tires. That said I think most of us are happy with a bike that please us and are done to our own individual standard of correctness/quality. I ride all my bikes so a concession is modern tires. I'm about done with my '37 Dayton Super Streamline and was going to put Cornell Clippers on it for the initial photos but at 20lbs the sidewall spit on the first one! I've got a set of U.S. Royal Master Centipede Grips on for now but will change to modern tires after I get pics. Because restorations are generally a compromise--every pro paint job I've seen is better than factory--heck even mine is--I think this is why most of us generally prefer original bikes. Besides it seems to be a heck of a lot cheaper in the long run! V/r Shawn


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## wspeid (May 29, 2013)

To me the difference is between a person who is hired or makes some portion of his income doing a service - a professional, vs. someone who does it for a hobby or the love of the craft - amateur.   It's similar to the difference between professional athletes and Olympic athletes... they each have the potential to be great or to have an off day.


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## HIGGINSFOREVER (May 29, 2013)

If you take your bike to someone who makes his living restoring bikes and you give him a blank check that is a professorial.If you do you own work in your back yard in a garage or under a tarp hanging from a apple tree thats a amateur.What do you take the most pride in Telling everyone you paid to have it done or you did it in your back yard.


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## Freqman1 (May 29, 2013)

Going back to the original intent of this post I would say there should be no difference between a quality amateur resto or a pro one. I disagree with the athlete analogy--I'll never have a pro hoops day but, taking my time, can do pro quality prep and paint. We've seen a few posts in this forum where someone has posted a "professionally restored" bike that has wrong paint and wrong parts. Most of the time either done by a local body shop or bike shop who took zero time doing any research but just made it shiny and new looking. A great example of a pro quality amateur resto is Nate's Super Cruiser. The pics don't do the bike justice and it won "Best Restored" at Ann Arbor in 2012. The bottom line is a poor resto is a poor resto regardless of who did it or how much they were/were not paid. V/r Shawn


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## Iverider (May 29, 2013)

I wouldn't say that an individual restoring their bike on their own time can't achieve a professional restoration.

I looked up the word in the dictionary (yeah) and one of the definitions is "a calling requiring specialized knowledge and often long and intensive academic preparation" 

If any individual takes the time to learn everything about the way a certain bike was made, they too could perform a professional restoration, short of some of the equipment intensive procedures like plating, but even some of that can be done at home.

Of course the individual then has to do everything WELL. Those who restore bikes as a vocation generally know a few tricks that not everyone know and can therefore do things faster. Of course with the number of bicycles and differences between manufacturer's they don't always have information on every make and model (who could?)

I would never hand a bike over and say "Restore this" unless I knew for a fact that person had a lot of experience in that certain make and model. Hell I don't have the money to do that anyway, and I enjoy learning how to do things on my own. That's half the fun of this hobby.

I've been researching T.O.C. Enameling ovens and paint recipes as of late!

NOS tires are for display restorations. If I can't ride it...it's just a beautiful boat anchor.


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## npence (May 29, 2013)

Would you say this is a amateur or professional restoration. Won bike of the year in Ann Arbor 2012.


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## bricycle (May 29, 2013)

It is not the terms themselves that are at times incorrect, but often who uses them.
The "Proper" terms that probably should be used are "Correct or Incorrect" restoration.
Often a (professional resto) was not properly researched, and incorrect parts and or an OVER RESTORED item was the end result. 
Sellers should just say, "here it is" like it or not, and let the buyer decide if it was done to their satisfaction. Saying it is a professional resto when it is not simply makes the seller appear STUPID!


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## bricycle (May 29, 2013)

Personally, I, like many, are no way qualified to make a decision if something was done properly or not. I leave that up to the "experienced folks" (noticed I refrained from saying the "professionals").....


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## Iverider (May 29, 2013)

^ What he said! (2 posts up)

Maybe telling the methods used in the 'professional' restoration would be a good way to do things. If someone advertised an early 1900s bike as a professional restoration with 2 stage paint I'd laugh my ass off. Most people don't take the time to document things that well. Next time YOU restore a bike, make a build sheet. Tell what kind of paint you used, who did the plating, etc. Then when time comes to sell, you can hand it over to the new owner.


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## bricycle (May 29, 2013)

Krautwaggen said:


> ^ What he said!
> 
> Maybe telling the methods used in the 'professional' restoration would be a good way to do things. If someone advertised an early 1900s bike as a professional restoration with 2 stage paint I'd laugh my ass off. Most people don't take the time to document things that well. Next time YOU restore a bike, make a build sheet. Tell what kind of paint you used, who did the plating, etc. Then when time comes to sell, you can hand it over to the new owner.




^ and what he said!


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## bricycle (May 29, 2013)

....ok, now I can't stop.....
Actually, a "showroom" quality bike SHOULD have fingerprints on painted and chrome areas, traces of lube and a hair or two on the bike somewhere, because that is HOW THEY REALLY WERE!


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## Iverider (May 29, 2013)

And at least one good gouge where someone knocked it over!


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## bricycle (May 29, 2013)

Ok, example:
A friend of mine bought a "show" '68 Camaro. It was a "show car because it had a new WILD paint job and fancy options.
He (never done this before) did a full resto on it.
With the guidance of a paid restorer, he did 95% or more himself.
From repairing cracks in the steering wheel to completely cleaning the sub-frame.
Only the best and correct parts ($$$$) were used. Paint pencil markings, codes, etc. were applied to the underpendings, firewalls and such as needed. Years later, it was finished.... yea, but it was so nice and correct, he wouldn't use it, which was his his original intention. Oh well....


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## Stinky_Sullivan (May 29, 2013)

Freqman1 said:


> Going back to the original intent of this post I would say there should be no difference between a quality amateur resto or a pro one.





You are correct. I think when we use those terms, we leave out a critical word, "quality."

Professional Quality Restoration vs Amateur Quality Restoration.

 Even a paid craftsman can do a crappy job. If you buy a restored bike from someone, you probably won't know who did the work unless they tell you. However, you can tell the difference between a crappy restoration and a quality restoration just by looking at it.


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## partsguy (May 29, 2013)

Freqman1 said:


> By the technical definition of the word-yes it would have to have original tires. That said I think most of us are happy with a bike that please us and are done to our own individual standard of correctness/quality. I ride all my bikes so a concession is modern tires. I'm about done with my '37 Dayton Super Streamline and was going to put Cornell Clippers on it for the initial photos but at 20lbs the sidewall spit on the first one!




I think bicycle people and car people have two very different ways of classifying things. I mean, I haven't seen a restored '57 Chevy or '68 Ford with original tires sell at Barrett-Jackson, unless they were babied and moth balled with 500 miles on them. At the very least they will have reproductions of the originals.


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## Stinky_Sullivan (May 29, 2013)

I'd bet that '57 had original reproduction Coker tires if it was billed as fully restored. Unfortunately, no one makes original reproduction tires for bikes. In most cases, it's just not possible to have original brand tires.


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## Freqman1 (May 29, 2013)

Stinky_Sullivan said:


> Unfortunately, no one makes original reproduction tires for bikes. QUOTE]
> 
> Besides the B.F. Goodrich Silvertowns...but...I think there is something brewing and I'm hoping by late summer us bike collectors have an alternative! V/r Shawn


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## bricycle (May 29, 2013)

Freqman1 said:


> Stinky_Sullivan said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately, no one makes original reproduction tires for bikes. QUOTE]
> ...


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## partsguy (May 29, 2013)

Really? Where does one obtain these reproduction Silvertowns? I have a set of old Silvertown trailer or tractor tires. Are they worth anything?


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## bricycle (May 29, 2013)

classicfan1 said:


> Really? Where does one obtain these reproduction Silvertowns? I have a set of old Silvertown trailer or tractor tires. Are they worth anything?




I believe bicyclebones has them...and reasonable. I bought a pair, and you know how cheap I am...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SALE-Two-Pr...ultDomain_0&hash=item5656bbbc94#ht_1382wt_924


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## OldRider (May 29, 2013)

Freqman1 said:


> Stinky_Sullivan said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately, no one makes original reproduction tires for bikes. QUOTE]
> ...


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## bricycle (May 29, 2013)

OldRider said:


> Freqman1 said:
> 
> 
> > I think I know whats brewing too and its going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread
> ...


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## catfish (May 29, 2013)

Mr Columbia makes some good points. I've seen good and bad restos done both ways. 




MrColumbia said:


> The old expression is "the devil is in the details". Strictly speaking "professional" is a term that means someone who is paid for their trade. I have seen plenty of paid for restorations that are all wrong. Yes, they have 2 stage automotive paint and are very dazzling to the eye but as a "restoration" goes, they have failed to replicate what the bike would have looked like out of the factory.
> 
> As has been said previously, correct color schemes, proper plating where it should be done and correct parts all go into an exceptional restoration. Many paid restorers can get all of these things wrong.  Research is where it needs to start.
> 
> ...


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## catfish (May 29, 2013)

bricycle said:


> Freqman1 said:
> 
> 
> > Do tell.....
> ...


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## Sped Man (May 29, 2013)

I sent out a bike to have it professionally painted. The individual has 20 years experience painting cars, motorcycles and bikes. He held on to it for over a month. When I got it back I was speechless. I could have done a better job with several cans of spray paint. Even pros make mistakes! One day when my blood pressure comes back down, I'll post a photo of the nightmare. Right now the wound is too new!


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## dxmadman (May 29, 2013)

*The Differance*

Yes you have to have skill,experience but what balances out is that it's a correct restoration! Over restored things look fake! Under restored is the sign of amatures and laziness, not over not under but correct. And most of all its not about $$$$$$, it's patience.


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## 1959firearrow (May 29, 2013)

Over restoring runs rampant in both the car and the bike world. If you find a real untouched by anyone since the factory 1969 Camaro SS there is bound to be an odd panel gap or two, a few paint imperfections, and the graphics will not line up perfectly from side to side. These cars were mass produced by factory workers who wanted nothing more than to go home as soon as they stepped in the door. I work in a factory now and can tell you there are some not so %100 perfect parts on some new hondas. What passed for ok then probably hasn't changed in the present. I think rattle can is the way to go for a correct resto. It's not perfect but it has just enough imperfections to be right! Every pro was at one time an amateur.  I think a really talented individual will put a lot more love and care into something than a paid professional any day.


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## vincev (May 29, 2013)

Actually I think I would rather spend the money on an original.A truly restored bike will run a lot of money,probably more than an original at times.I like originals with character marks on them.An amateur can do a really nice job if he is very talented.I'm not so I go for really clean originals.
 Now would be a good time for Dave to make a stupid comment.


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## Stinky_Sullivan (May 29, 2013)

Fortunately, with bikes, original but not pristine is desirable. Only the basket cases need restoring. Rattle can paint CAN produce a great paint job if the proper prep and finish work are done.


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## slick (May 29, 2013)

Well, I have done automotive body and paint on everything from high end mercedes and bmw's to classic cars such as real steel 32 ford roadsters for the past 15 years and have used all different types of materials,Glasurit,Dupont,PPG,House of Color,Nason,laquer,enamel,urethanes, and even the new Water borne paint systems just to name a few. The fact of 2 stage vs. single stage goes like this. All of the "green" people have ruined all of the materials we have to use which in turn raises the price immensely due to paint being banned because it is unsafe for the environment. Many of you from back east may still be able to get these materials but here in sunny california, we can't. So yes, we use the best of the best. The materials i use for a bike complete alone cost more then some of you have into your whole bike. On average is roughly $400 in materials. 

Now sure, you may want single stage enamel or laquer which i can get shipped to me from out of state. Fine but the color will die back with no UV protection like the original paints had back when they were new on the bike in the 1930's since the materials have changed since then. So if you plan to actually ride the bike, the sun will kill the paint. it will dull and get chalky with age. That sounds like money foolishly spent if you ask me? 

As far as a bike being a show piece because it has NOS or original tires??? I call bullpoop. All of my vintage bikes have original or NOS tires and every single bike gets ridden on them. Cracks in the sidewalls or not. We ride a good 20 miles per month every month of the year. My Speedline has NOS US Royal chain treads on it and rides just fine with nearly 1k miles on it now. Trust me, the NOS chain treads make a nice loud squel when I lock up the ND rear hub up on a long skid. OH NO!! There goes some tires!!! More can be found. Live a little and ride your original,restored, or show bike. They were designed to be ridden. Not talked about in front of the fire place when friends are over.


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## babyjesus (May 30, 2013)

Freqman1 said:


> By the technical definition of the word-yes it would have to have original tires. That said I think most of us are happy with a bike that please us and are done to our own individual standard of correctness/quality. I ride all my bikes so a concession is modern tires. I'm about done with my '37 Dayton Super Streamline and was going to put Cornell Clippers on it for the initial photos but at 20lbs the sidewall spit on the first one! I've got a set of U.S. Royal Master Centipede Grips on for now but will change to modern tires after I get pics. Because restorations are generally a compromise--every pro paint job I've seen is better than factory--heck even mine is--I think this is why most of us generally prefer original bikes. Besides it seems to be a heck of a lot cheaper in the long run! V/r Shawn




Shawn I had Cornell Clippers on one of my SS bikes and they have a flat profile and are absolutely horrible to ride on. No point in even riding with them. As soon as I put cheapo new tires on it rode great - the only issue is the new ones look too white on the sides until they get old and faded. Many of the prewar tires have a flat profile - I think that is just dumb - it slows you down to no end and is generally horrible to ride on.

As for restos this is more about the meaning of the word pro versus amateur - the main difference usually being that a pro has access to equipment most of us don't have. Otherwise it just comes down to who researches and takes the time to do it right at all costs.


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## babyjesus (May 30, 2013)

OldRider said:


> Freqman1 said:
> 
> 
> > I think I know whats brewing too and its going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread
> ...


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## scrubbinrims (May 30, 2013)

OldRider said:


> I know what's brewing - and in both BW and WW. BWs look great




I hope these tires are molded with "Reproduction," "Fake" or "Made in Taiwan" on the sidewalls to distinguish from originals.

I lot of good points and opinions on this thread and I restore only in extreme circumstances of rarity and there are only a few people I would trust not only technically, but accurately which is worth the expense...I could have a local painter with skills put an image of one on my daughters on the tank, but that's not my point.

I think I am a little different in that I only have the painted parts redone, which I re-assemble with the best metal finished original parts I can find...not being cheap (or impatient), but I like to have somewhat of a vintage look.
I just don't like shiny re-chrome and with repop grips and new tires, yuck!

Chris


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## bricycle (May 30, 2013)

"I hope these tires are molded with "Reproduction," "Fake" or "Made in Taiwan" on the sidewalls to distinguish from originals."

Or have an extra letter or mis-spell in a word.... Maid in U.S.A.


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## rustyspoke66 (May 30, 2013)

I think the tires should be exact reproductions and made in the U.S.A. I also like a refurbished bike over a restored bike. However if repainting I also like single stage paint due to the fact that it will show age and fading over time. The chrome work is another touchy subject, most guys go for the super show chrome which seems to be the only thing most chrome shops know how to do. I think if wanting to be correct the chrome should be done to factory spec which would most likely have sanding and grinding marks in it. Like said in a earlier post these bikes were mass produced and did not get the attention detail. So if we want to get worked up about using repop tires then we should also be worried about the accuracy of paint and chrome finishes. Also money is a object for most people and it seems stupid to go overboard crazy restoring a bicycle that will be worth a fraction of its restoration cost when done. I also think the term restoration is simply abused because most restored bikes should be considered custom restored due to the overly finished chrome and paint.


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## scrubbinrims (May 30, 2013)

I am worked up about reproduction parts, always will be being conservative in this regard and spending accordingly for the real deal.

ALL reproduction parts should have some designation to protect the values of the originals and assure that folks down the line don't get duped...there should be the responsibility of the repoppers to do this , but they don't for the most part to keep sales rolling and because most buyers want an indistinguishable fake.

So it is win-win except for the minority who don't cut corners.

Chris


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## MrColumbia (May 30, 2013)

There is always going to be a fine balancing act between accurate reproduction parts and those who wish they did not exists. On the one hand some feel they ruin the value of the original parts. But then again, many here are adamant that no bike be parted out anyway*...ever*! Even so, if there is no affordable reproduction parts collecting many bikes becomes an elitist activity with only the very wealthy being able to participate. Many old bikes would never be ridden again. Tires are a great example of this. There is _not_ an inexhaustible supply of old tires out there that are rideable. Sooner or later they are all going to turn to stone. We then have the option of new tires, hatred has already been expressed about that here. We can put accurate reproduction tires but that ruins the value of an original tire. We could have reproductions made with misspelled words or REPRODUCTION on them but that is not an accurate representation of what the bike was when new. I can picture the future when collectors have a bike with a tire *maid* in the USA. Will they think that *maid* was the correct spelling for 1936?


I have seen little proof that reproduction parts ruin values of the originals. There is still those who will only go with originals and if they have the money to spend, the prices will remain stable. If they don't then the part is not going to sell at that price anyway.


In a free market, supply and demand is supposed to set prices and availability. It seems that there is a demand for all levels of bicycles and parts from 100% factory original to completely cloned repops and everything in-between. The important thing is we have resources like the CABE so people can do research and know what they are buying. We can also debate this issue freely and each come to our own decisions on what we want. Many of my opinions have shifted as a result of this open form of discussion/debate.


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## scrubbinrims (May 30, 2013)

It is one thing to say no reproduction parts should exist for the collectors with less to spend or in areas without the supply barns, etc.., but it another to say reproductions are cool if they carry some distinction as such (and it can be subtle and not at the forefront).
The latter is all I am sayin', I don't hate much and kudos to the fiberglass tanks and I wouldn't mind one bit if my replacement headlight lenses had "Classicriders" in the mold.
I view wanting a reproduction part as accurate as the original as cheating and disrespectful to the owners of originals and rewrites their context in history.
Who will know what is rare if their are not clear lines, who will collect old bicycles if the parts are as plentiful as going to WalMart or the LBS?
Who cares? Me.
Chris


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## Djshakes (May 30, 2013)

I read this thread and there is a lot of talk about if you do it full time or not, where it is done (garage, backyard), what type of material, etc.  This is all BS.

From my experience 90% of all bike collectors couldn't distinguish between a professional restoration or not. Sorry, it is the truth. Everyone thinks they are expert but they are not. Unless it is blatant they can't tell.  Half the time they hear the name of the person who painted the bike and assume it is correct and preach so. I have seen lots of "professional" jobs with specs so out of whack it isn't funny.   However, the blame might not lay entirely on the painter.  If the painter doesn't have a nice original to work from or he is using pictures, you can't expect exact specs. On the flip side, I have also seen bikes where a hobbyist or maybe someone that owns one bike restored it and it is perfect.

The fact that most people can't distinguish between professional and amateur jobs makes it difficult for a painter.  For example, I repainted some Higgins and had original examples to work from.  It was funny because some of the pin stripping was so far off of the two tone divide it looked like a drunk guy did it at the factory.  Could I replicate that, easily. However, you almost have to tailor your bikes to an uneducated audience. If I pinstriped it that way 90% of the collectors would scoff at it not knowing the difference but assuming and it is my reputation on the line.  This applies to a lot of other specs, especially when masks were used at the factory (underside of tanks, etc). These bikes weren't perfect but when you see a restored one done that way it looks wrong.  The politics of painting.  

In my opinion a professional paint job will exhibit the following traits:

1: Single stage paint.  They didn't use clear coat from the factory unless it was a rare instance.
2. Exact or near exact specs in regards darts, spears and pin stripping. 
3. Clearly the correct parts but parts can be changed if they are not painted.  I am focusing on paint because that is the base and can't be changed.   

Can the painted bike be thrown in a barn for ten years and after aging look original?  If yes, then you have a professional restoration.  It doesn't matter who did it or where they did it. If it fools you, it is professional grade.


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## bricycle (May 30, 2013)

*"If it fools you, it is professional grade."*..... this the best line I have EVER heard!!!!!


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## dxmadman (May 30, 2013)

*True*



bricycle said:


> *"If it fools you, it is professional grade."*..... this the best line I have EVER heard!!!!!






That also true with Women.


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## Freqman1 (May 30, 2013)

I agree with Tim regarding 'fixing' the factory flaws. I'm using my '37 Dayton Motorbike as the reference for my Super Streamline. The darts and striping on the front forks looks like a kid did it they are so far off. I did use a single stage but couldn't resist color sanding and hand rubbing/buffing to get a better gloss. When I had the chrome done I asked Proctors to just give me the "slightly better than factory" but not "show" chrome so there are still a few imperfections. I have taken great pains researching the bike to get it as close to factory while still making it as nice as I want. 

I also agree that if a bike was accurately restored most collectors would not be happy with the results due to blemishes and factory tolerance for less than perfect. Regarding cost I have over $1500 just in paint/chrome/cad/zinc and untold hours in research and prep (and I spent another $1600 for a printer to make my own decals) so unless a bike is significant or holds sentimental value a quality restoration simply doesn't make economic sense. 

Another thing is not everyone has the same level of talent or resources so they will refurbish within the limits of their abilities. I'm sure someone will find something wrong with my bike but I built it to ride and enjoy so that really doensn't matter too much to me. Hopefully within the next week or so I'll get pics posted of my amateur restoration! V/r Shawn


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## bricycle (May 30, 2013)

Freqman1 said:


> I agree with Tim regarding 'fixing' the factory flaws. I'm using my '37 Dayton Motorbike as the reference for my Super Streamline. The darts and striping on the front forks looks like a kid did it they are so far off. I did use a single stage but couldn't resist color sanding and hand rubbing/buffing to get a better gloss. When I had the chrome done I asked Proctors to just give me the "slightly better than factory" but not "show" chrome so there are still a few imperfections. I have taken great pains researching the bike to get it as close to factory while still making it as nice as I want.
> 
> I also agree that if a bike was accurately restored most collectors would not be happy with the results due to blemishes and factory tolerance for less than perfect. Regarding cost I have over $1500 just in paint/chrome/cad/zinc and untold hours in research and prep (and I spent another $1600 for a printer to make my own decals) so unless a bike is significant or holds sentimental value a quality restoration simply doesn't make economic sense.
> 
> Another thing is not everyone has the same level of talent or resources so they will refurbish within the limits of their abilities. I'm sure someone will find something wrong with my bike but I built it to ride and enjoy so that really doensn't matter too much to me. Hopefully within the next week or so I'll get pics posted of my amateur restoration! V/r Shawn




"Printer"?  wilst thou make decals for anyone?


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## Freqman1 (May 30, 2013)

The graphics are the real trick here. You can't just scan an image and expect to get a quality decal. I am not a graphics person by trade and it takes me a long time to get an image to decal level quality plus I'm using  MS Paint as my graphics program which has severe limitations. If I start to do more of this I need to install Corel or a similar program and spend some time. See the restoration thread (Making Dayton/Huffman Decals) for the examples I've done so far. I've since tweaked the "Dayton" downtube decal (silver/black outline) to get better registration. If someone has a quality image ready to print I could do a test run but I really don't have time right now to start from scratch on any projects. V/r Shawn


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## bricycle (May 30, 2013)

Freqman1 said:


> The graphics are the real trick here. You can't just scan an image and expect to get a quality decal. I am not a graphics person by trade and it takes me a long time to get an image to decal level quality plus I'm using  MS Paint as my graphics program which has severe limitations. If I start to do more of this I need to install Corel or a similar program and spend some time. See the restoration thread (Making Dayton/Huffman Decals) for the examples I've done so far. I've since tweaked the "Dayton" downtube decal (silver/black outline) to get better registration. If someone has a quality image ready to print I could do a test run but I really don't have time right now to start from scratch on any projects. V/r Shawn




Thanks ma man!


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## Djshakes (May 30, 2013)

Freqman1 said:


> I did use a single stage but couldn't resist color sanding and hand rubbing/buffing to get a better gloss.




This is 100% acceptable and everyone I know that shoots single stage cuts and buffs it.  You should.  Single stage is easily prone to imperfections that are more distinguishable then factory bike imperfections. Why?....because years ago the composition of the paint had a key ingredient called lead that smoothed out the surface.  Ever shoot old paint from an enamel can from back in the day after you stir it for an hour to blend it?  It goes on like glass.  I have actually shot paint out of an old Schwinn can and it sprayed beautifully.  

Recently I have been able to get my paint to the point of almost not having to color sand.  I broke down and bought a Sata which I should have done long ago.  It is like driving a go cart your whole life and then jumping in a Ferrari.   Also you have to make sure your mixtures are as close to the spec sheets as possible.  You will always have the issue of having to color sand between the two tone to knock down the ledge. So for consistency I use my rubbing compounds on the rest of the bike.


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