# Early (PREWAR) Schwinn New World Lightweight Chain Guard Question??



## 1motime (Feb 26, 2020)

I have a question about the chain guard on my prewar Schwinn New World that I am trying to return to the living.  I am not an expert so go to the source!  This is a 1940 and was never taken apart. 
 Everything appears to be original.  It is all familiar and normal.  My question is the forward frame mount bracket.  It is different and more fragile than the normal heavy bracket that Schwinn used for decades.  It is 2 piece sheet metal and wraps around the tube.  Photos show that there is a long strip on the removable piece that is just floating in space.  Doesn't have a fastener hole and no sign of a spot weld on the bracket or guard.  Very strange!

My question!  What is this?  What does it do?  How is it attached?  If anyone knows  or can show a photo of similar guard I would appreciate it!  Thanks!


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## troy boy (Feb 26, 2020)

I think it was missing that bracket and someone fabbed a replacement and just did not cut the end off


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## 1motime (Feb 26, 2020)

I was wondering about that.  Same color and ageing to paint?


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## GTs58 (Feb 26, 2020)

troy boy said:


> I think it was missing that bracket and someone fabbed a replacement and just did not cut the end off




I think it's for extra support, tucks up in the top of the guard? @Miq would know. Here's a new repop prewar guard and hardware.


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## 1motime (Feb 26, 2020)

GTs58 said:


> I think it's for extra support, tucks up in the top of the guard? @Miq would know. Here's a new repop prewar guard and hardware.
> 
> View attachment 1146825



That makes more sense.  Those sheet metal brackets are flimsy.  Maybe Schwinn just made a longer support onto the piece to steady the guard.  Then they gave up and went to the thick one piece bracket that mounted to tab on frame.  Same thing as the wire fender brackets.  WAY TOO delicate!  Thanks for your reply!


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## GTs58 (Feb 26, 2020)

The other guard you showed is a post war piece. Totally different brackets since there were mounting tabs fixed to the frame post war.


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## 1motime (Feb 26, 2020)

GTs58 said:


> The other guard you showed is a post war piece. Totally different brackets since there were mounting tabs fixed to the frame post war.



I know.  I was showing the difference in brackets.  The other is what Schwinn used on later guards for decades.  Same rivet holes.  Rear bracket was made stronger and attached to frame tab  I always wondered why those guards had a raised strip in the pressed in center.  It was for the early rear bracket.  Not needed after the bracket change but Schwinn never changed the guard stamping!


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## rennfaron (Feb 26, 2020)

troy boy said:


> I think it was missing that bracket and someone fabbed a replacement and just did not cut the end off



No it was definitely made like that.

To answer the question - just bolt it on there. There really isn't a mystery to how it attaches, you just screw it in place. I don't really know what that extra length on the bracket does, but I will give it some thought. I have seen a few of these and they are always tucked under the guard like below. My initial thought is I agree with GT and it is stabilizing the guard. What is weird though, is why, because the mount to the frame is right there, what is there to stabilize...? I just went outside and took a pic of the inside of the guard on my NW '41.


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## Miq (Feb 26, 2020)

Not on my 41



and my guard twists a little over time and I have to push in the exact spot the longer strip is holding in toward the frame. It’s where the chainring side crank arm rubs against the outside of the guard.


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## rennfaron (Feb 26, 2020)

I have his / hers '41 NWs with the same guard type. Both have the smaller BB and superior AS & CO chainring. I also have a 41 that has the larger BB and regular ole clover chainring. It is in storage but I have a pic that I could kind of zoom in and noticed it has a different guard type and no extra length on bracket. OP has same AS & CO superior chainring setup and smaller BB. I wonder if that has something to do with it. Below is my 41 with larger BB.

Edit - I found a '39 with extended bracket, but clover style chainring (below - 2nd image).
Edit - here is also a '39 lincoln badged NW with same guard type as yours Miq. (3rd and 4th image)


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## SirMike1983 (Feb 27, 2020)

Right. The plain, pre-war guards are similar to the balloon guards except they mount using a little different clamp system. After the war, they went to a brazed-on boss on the frame and another mounting system. 

There's no single "correct" guard for a New World because they used several types - whatever the person buying it wanted. The plain hockey stick type, the feather type, and an art deco McCauley style (not sure if Schwinn or McCauley made it, but it looks a lot like a McCauley) all could be original. The pre-war bikes usually have the hockeystick style, just by numbers, but there are always exceptions with these bikes.

Think of the New World as a kind of "platform" where you could build a basic bicycle for an adult or a student for practical purposes like touring and commuting. That allowed shops and buyers to vary the parts used based on taste, function, and popularity at the time.

If you're having trouble with a slipping or twisting guard, try a piece of rubber rim strip or a strip of inner tube under the clamp for gripping. It also saves wear on the frame's paint under the clamp.


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## Miq (Feb 27, 2020)

@SirMike1983 I like the inner tube idea.  It reminds me of the piece on the Time Clock Bell we like.  

The 1940 Parts Catalog shows several styles of the guards available to choose from and also shows the longer clip (#463). 








Part numbers 631 and 684 at the bottom are listed as the Front Bracket parts for the New World.  Part Number 684 is also the part number for the front clip listed near the top with drawing #463.


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## 1motime (Feb 27, 2020)

rennfaron said:


> No it was definitely made like that.
> 
> To answer the question - just bolt it on there. There really isn't a mystery to how it attaches, you just screw it in place. I don't really know what that extra length on the bracket does, but I will give it some thought. I have seen a few of these and they are always tucked under the guard like below. My initial thought is I agree with GT and it is stabilizing the guard. What is weird though, is why, because the mount to the frame is right there, what is there to stabilize...? I just went outside and took a pic of the inside of the guard on my NW '41.
> View attachment 1146855



Thank you for your reply and especially the photo.  Makes sense even the whole set up does not make a lot of sense.  Flimsy sheetmetal.  The extension stabilizes the guard.  Schwinn had some experience with lightweights at this point and they were into common sense design but this is a quick fix.  They eventually solved the problem and it worked for decades!  Your  bracket extension looks to be cad plated.


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## 1motime (Feb 27, 2020)

Miq said:


> @SirMike1983 I like the inner tube idea.  It reminds me of the piece on the Time Clock Bell we like.
> 
> The 1940 Parts Catalog shows several styles of the guards available to choose from and also shows the longer clip (#463).
> View attachment 1146936
> ...





Miq said:


> @SirMike1983 I like the inner tube idea.  It reminds me of the piece on the Time Clock Bell we like.
> 
> The 1940 Parts Catalog shows several styles of the guards available to choose from and also shows the longer clip (#463).
> View attachment 1146936
> ...



Thanks!  There it is in the parts catalog.  Official.  Did you notice that part number 463 is shared for two parts?  Men's and women's.  Women's is 1/8" longer!  A Mystery!  Why?  Didn't  they both have the same 6 1/2" chain ring?  Might have made for some confusion during assembly........


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## SirMike1983 (Feb 27, 2020)

459 and 460 are the "art deco" ones I mentioned. I have no idea whether McCauley made them or whether Schwinn was copying a McCauley design. I've seen Westfields from the period that use them as well.


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## 1motime (Feb 27, 2020)

rennfaron said:


> I have his / hers '41 NWs with the same guard type. Both have the smaller BB and superior AS & CO chainring. I also have a 41 that has the larger BB and regular ole clover chainring. It is in storage but I have a pic that I could kind of zoom in and noticed it has a different guard type and no extra length on bracket. OP has same AS & CO superior chainring setup and smaller BB. I wonder if that has something to do with it. Below is my 41 with larger BB.
> 
> Edit - I found a '39 with extended bracket, but clover style chainring (below - 2nd image).
> Edit - here is also a '39 lincoln badged NW with same guard type as yours Miq. (3rd and 4th image)
> ...



Thanks for your reply and photos.  It helps.  The last photo of the black bike shows another set up.  The forward clamp is not held on with one screw and a tab instead of two screws.  Easier to attach.  No extension to stabilize the guard.  Loose clamp part is cad plated.  Nice bike!


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## 1motime (Feb 27, 2020)

SirMike1983 said:


> 459 and 460 are the "art deco" ones I mentioned. I have no idea whether McCauley made them or whether Schwinn was copying a McCauley design. I've seen Westfields from the period that use them as well.



Do youthink 459 and 460 were available on lightweights?  Or is catalog page just showing Schwinn guards for that year?


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## rennfaron (Feb 27, 2020)

1motime said:


> Do youthink 459 and 460 were available on lightweights?  Or is catalog page just showing Schwinn guards for that year?



Yes, available on lightweights.




__





						1945 Schwinn New World bicycle at Classic Cycle | Classic Cycle Bainbridge Island Kitsap County
					

1945 Schwinn New World bicycle on display at Classic Cycle, a bike shop and museum located on Bainbridge Island near the Seattle ferry terminal




					classiccycleus.com
				







GT hates that site so another for backup








						1940's Schwinn New World Info?? | Lightweight Schwinn Bicycles
					

I picked this up from the second owner and want to delve into it a bit....info. restoration. Im not sure if i want to keep it, sell it, possibly trade.  does anybody know the approximate year? Serial number is I35968




					thecabe.com
				







Also off @SirMike1983 site








						Schwinn New World and Evening Rides
					

A blog devoted to vintage bicycle repair and cycling in general.




					bikeshedva.blogspot.com


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## 1motime (Feb 27, 2020)

rennfaron said:


> Yes, available on lightweights.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





rennfaron said:


> Yes, available on lightweights.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I guess they were available.  Thanks for the photos.  I like the Deco guard better than the normal Hockey Stick.  Not going to change out for this bike.  Enough of the ghosts have been let out by trying to resurrect it. I am building another one and might try to find deco guard for that.  That first red bike has me wondering again.  Those fenders and braces are not the normal ones.  Bike looks to be original though.  Tires look to be middleweight.


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## SirMike1983 (Feb 27, 2020)

The hockey stick is a little more substantial than the deco, though the deco is certainly attractive. My favorite is the wing. I have the post-war version on a 1947 New World.


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## 1motime (Feb 27, 2020)

SirMike1983 said:


> The hockey stick is a little more substantial than the deco, though the deco is certainly attractive. My favorite is the wing. I have the post-war version on a 1947 New World.
> 
> View attachment 1146968



Nice bike!  That looks good also.  The decal area breaks it up nicely and covers the chain more.  Too many decisions.  The problem is my mind races to the next project before the one at hand gets finished.  Part of the fun I guess.  Thanks!


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## fatbike (Jun 21, 2020)

1motime said:


> I guess they were available.  Thanks for the photos.  I like the Deco guard better than the normal Hockey Stick.  Not going to change out for this bike.  Enough of the ghosts have been let out by trying to resurrect it. I am building another one and might try to find deco guard for that.  That first red bike has me wondering again.  Those fenders and braces are not the normal ones.  Bike looks to be original though.  Tires look to be middleweight.



They used that style fender also, a post war World I had has the deco guard and round none peak guards.


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## GTs58 (Jun 21, 2020)

The bike pictured above is a pre war model with fenders that aren't original to the bike.


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## rennfaron (Jun 21, 2020)

GTs58 said:


> The bike pictured above is a pre war model with fenders that aren't original to the bike.



Exactly.


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## 1motime (Jun 21, 2020)

fatbike said:


> They used that style fender also, a post war World I had has the deco guard and round none peak guards.
> 
> View attachment 1215910



Very nice bike.  There are those fenders again.  Flat braces also.   Is it possible that your bike is a Welterweight?  1.5" tires on S4 rims.  Very distinctive look


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## GTs58 (Jun 21, 2020)

1motime said:


> Very nice bike.  There are those fenders again.  Flat braces also.   Is it possible that your bike is a Welterweight?  1.5" tires on S4 rims.  Very distinctive look



Those flat fender braces were phased out before 1938.


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## fatbike (Jun 21, 2020)

1motime said:


> Very nice bike.  There are those fenders again.  Flat braces also.   Is it possible that your bike is a Welterweight?  1.5" tires on S4 rims.  Very distinctive look



I think you’re right. Bikes long gone now.


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## fatbike (Jun 21, 2020)

GTs58 said:


> The bike pictured above is a pre war model with fenders that aren't original to the bike.



If you are referring to the green girls world, it was dated 48.


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## 1motime (Jun 21, 2020)

GTs58 said:


> Those flat fender braces were phased out before 1938.



So those are not Schwinn fenders?  What about the red bike shown in post 18 in this thread.  Looks pretty original  Why was this done more than once?


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## GTs58 (Jun 21, 2020)

fatbike said:


> If you are referring to the green girls world, it was dated 48.




Yes, that green girls World. Not sure how you came to the conclusion it's a 48. It's prewar with no built in stand, no chain guard mounting tabs and a welded on seat post clamp. It was either a 1940 or a 41.


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## GTs58 (Jun 21, 2020)

1motime said:


> So those are not Schwinn fenders?  What about the red bike shown in post 18 in this thread.  Looks pretty original  Why was this done more than once?



That bike in post 18 is not what they say it is. The site where that is posted says that's a 1945 model but it's probably a put together piece and not factory built as you see it. One fact proves they are wrong and they don't know what that bike is. Schwinn was electro-forging their head tubes and top tube and down tubes to the head tube during war time, 1943 with the J serial numbered war time New Worlds. That so called 1945 New World was built in 1942 or earlier and it's clearly visible the top tube and down tubes were not electro-forged to the head tube. The flat fender braces were last seen on the 39 New Worlds before they had the rear drop outs that started with the 1940 models.





__





						1945 Schwinn New World bicycle at Classic Cycle | Classic Cycle Bainbridge Island Kitsap County
					

1945 Schwinn New World bicycle on display at Classic Cycle, a bike shop and museum located on Bainbridge Island near the Seattle ferry terminal




					classiccycleus.com


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## Autocycleplane (Jun 21, 2020)

Just a couple of clarifications on the prewar hardware. Ladies models used larger tubing so the clamp is 1/8” larger in diameter not length. Also the longer version shown was to keep pants/skirts from rubbing or getting caught in the sprocket from the left side and pops up on many/most models by 1940. Not sure when this change to the long clamp bracket was first introduced though, I probably have them on some bikes that shouldn’t.


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