# Single Tube Tires



## scotch (Jul 12, 2012)

I need to pick up a pair of single tube tires for my 1902 Crawford. I've seen reproductions on ebay. I assume that it would be better, if not more expensive, to try to find original period tires. But, would reproductions be acceptable in the arena of restoring the bike on an amateur level?


----------



## scrubbinrims (Jul 12, 2012)

I have a nos set of chain tread 28 x 1.5 I would sell for what I have in them and that's 500.00
Chris


----------



## Freqman1 (Jul 12, 2012)

Thats what I really hate about the 28" bikes. To get a ridable wheel set costs more than 80% of the bikes out there are worth. I just bought one today and still can't figure out why I did it! I'll probably go the 700cc route with the widest white tires I can find. V/r Shawn


----------



## scotch (Jul 12, 2012)

Chris,
I'm sorry, can you educate me?
- what does nos mean?
- does chain thread mean anything significant?
- are these reproductions or would the be considered period originals?

thanks


----------



## scrubbinrims (Jul 12, 2012)

scrubbinrims don't do repop.

nos means new old stock as in never mounted on a bicycle or ridden...as new as it gets with storage wear.
They are not from 1902, but the 30's...not reproductions but sold to be ridden in that period.
the chain tread is the pattern, basically interlocking chains in the rubber.
these tires are relatively soft, pliable, without cracking...one has a slow leak which is probably the valve core.
of course I can get pics, but it will be tomorrow
they are expensive, but thats' what they go for and a set of fakes is what... 300?
chris


----------



## scotch (Jul 12, 2012)

thx Chris.
I don't need pics.
where are you located?


----------



## scrubbinrims (Jul 12, 2012)

I am in Richmond, VA, but travel around the mid-Atlantic in my job.
Chris


----------



## Rambler (Jul 13, 2012)

scotch said:


> I need to pick up a pair of single tube tires for my 1902 Crawford. I've seen reproductions on ebay. I assume that it would be better, if not more expensive, to try to find original period tires. But, would reproductions be acceptable in the arena of restoring the bike on an amateur level?




A word to the wise here. If you plan to ride the bicycle you want pnumatic tires as the bike was originally equipped with. Do not purchase the solid rubber 28" tires seen on ebay and other places unless your intention is only to display the bicycle. The solid rubber tires are heavy and stiff making the bike unplesent to ride. Either old production or new production Single tube pneumatic tires are what you want if you intend to ride the bike with the original wood rims. Otherwise converting the bicycle to 28" (700mm) modern tires and rims is an excellent option if you intend to make this a daily rider and reliability is more important to you than historic originality.

Here is a source for New production 28" single tube tires for your bicycle.

Bob Dean is now making the 28X1-1/2 "Harper" tire and will make the 28X1-3/4 in the future. He is charging $150 per 28X1-1/2 tire (by check), which includes shipping. Orders will be filled on a "first come, first served" basis.

Make checks payable and send payment to:
Robert Dean
628 Jefferson Street
St. Albans, WV 25177

Refer to this Wheelmen thread for more information about the Harper tires: http://thewheelmen.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3375&whichpage=3&SearchTerms=harper,tires

If you want to convert the bike to 28" (700mm) modern tires and rims here is information regarding that subject:

http://thewheelmen.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3458&SearchTerms=Charlie,Harper
http://thewheelmen.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4339&SearchTerms=velocity

Charlie Harper as mentioned in the above links is an excellent source for modern realistic looking wood grain rims and tires that at a glance look very close to the original wood rims.


----------



## chucksoldbikes (Jul 13, 2012)

*hello  i put  700*

hello i  spoked a nd   skiptooth rearend in a   700  rim  and  put   700    x   38   tires on them  they  work  great on  my   1886  flite  chucksoldbikes


----------



## Freqman1 (Jul 13, 2012)

Any pics of Bob's tires? I'd like to see a set of these in white/cream. V/r Shawn


----------



## redline1968 (Jul 13, 2012)

scotch said:


> Chris,
> I'm sorry, can you educate me?
> - what does nos mean?
> - does chain thread mean anything significant?
> ...




nos means new old stock... original (tires) that has not been used since new ie 100yr old tires.
chain means the tread on the tires are chain design....... some tires have a design that resembles chains interlocking and others have different designs.
period originals are not considered because they dont resemble what originals look like just the size for use and designs are generic.


----------



## Rambler (Jul 13, 2012)

Freqman1 said:


> Any pics of Bob's tires? I'd like to see a set of these in white/cream. V/r Shawn




In the links of my previous post there are photos of Bob's tires installed on a bike. His tires only come in black. The only option I currently know of for white/cream tires is to use the 28" (700mm) modern alloy rims from Charlie Harper and he sells a white/cream tire for that rim. I have a set on one of my bikes and they look really great! There should be photos in my previous post that also show this option from Charlie Harper.


----------



## scotch (Jul 13, 2012)

Rambler said:


> A word to the wise here. If you plan to ride the bicycle you want pnumatic tires as the bike was originally equipped with. Do not purchase the solid rubber 28" tires seen on ebay and other places unless your intention is only to display the bicycle. The solid rubber tires are heavy and stiff making the bike unplesent to ride. Either old production or new production Single tube pneumatic tires are what you want if you intend to ride the bike with the original wood rims. Otherwise converting the bicycle to 28" (700mm) modern tires and rims is an excellent option if you intend to make this a daily rider and reliability is more important to you than historic originality.
> 
> Here is a source for New production 28" single tube tires for your bicycle.
> 
> ...




Great info, Rambler.
My goal is to try to setup the bike to ride it. My issue is that it's a shaft-drive bike and my rear hub/axle is a little unconventional, see attached. I may have to contact Charlie Harper with some details to see what he can do.
I've also come across a wooden rim manufactured called Sacro Bosco...any comments? http://www.sacroboscorims.com


----------



## walter branche (Jul 13, 2012)

*bike shows/events*

If you go to a swap meet ,these tires can be found for reasonable prices,or buy a bike with a set of tires ,and part out the bike to get your expense back,. if the tires do not hold air very well, take them to a lawn mower shop and get them slimed with puncture proof foam . walter branche  todays tire know it all


----------



## scotch (Jul 13, 2012)

walter branche said:


> If you go to a swap meet ,these tires can be found for reasonable prices,or buy a bike with a set of tires ,and part out the bike to get your expense back,. if the tires do not hold air very well, take them to a lawn mower shop and get them slimed with puncture proof foam . walter branche  todays tire know it all




Hi Walter,
I did slime the one that leaked and it held long enough to get a short ride on it, but the sidewall is so bad the slime won't hold. I do like the swap meet idea, will look into it.


----------



## Rambler (Jul 13, 2012)

scotch said:


> My goal is to try to setup the bike to ride it. My issue is that it's a shaft-drive bike and my rear hub/axle is a little unconventional, see attached. I may have to contact Charlie Harper with some details to see what he can do.
> I've also come across a wooden rim manufactured called Sacro Bosco...any comments? http://www.sacroboscorims.com




You should be able to use Charlie Harper's rims or any other 28" (700mm) rim you choose with the correct number of spoke holes. Do as I did and reuse your spokes and hub in the new rim. If you don't know how to transfer the spokes and hub to a new rim than take it to a bike shop that does wheel work and they should be able to help you.

I have not used nor seen in person the Sacro Bosco rims so I cannot comment on them.


----------



## SirMike1983 (Jul 13, 2012)

I lean towards the conversion to a metal clincher rim side of the equation, at least for riding. The way I see it, you pay for the single tube tires or you pay for the rims. I see the rims as more of an investment because once you convert over, you have a supply of affordable and readily available tires. With the single tubes, you commit to maintaining them and going through the trouble of repairs when they are needed. It can be done, but I would feel more confident with the conversion for that particular part of the bike.


----------



## Rambler (Jul 13, 2012)

Examples of the tires I mentioned on the first page of this thread...

Charlie Harper's Alloy wood grain rims with white/cream tires...






Robert Dean's original style single tube tires...


----------



## Nick-theCut (Jul 13, 2012)

The first picture (Ranger w/ cream tires) is Larmo's '27 Ranger.  If I'm not mistaken those rims are pinstriped ghistallo clincher wood rims with Amsterdam tires.  

Not trying to burst any single tube bubbles... Just the facts.

I think I'm going to go the Robert dean route myself, but am really interested in a 700c X 38-40 tire that has a slick tread or period appropriate tread.
Unlike the cyclocross tread 28" sew ups that are on Memory Lane


----------



## Rambler (Jul 13, 2012)

Nick-theCut said:


> The first picture (Ranger w/ cream tires) is Larmo's '27 Ranger.  If I'm not mistaken those rims are pinstriped ghistallo clincher wood rims with Amsterdam tires.




Oops you are right, I changed the photo to one I know for sure is Velocity Alloy wood grain rims with white/cream Amsterdam tires, both sold by Charlie Harper.


----------



## DonChristie (Jul 13, 2012)

I went the Robert Dean route on my Iver Johnson. I couldn't be happier. Personally, I prefer to keep things original. If you go this route, use 3M glue (Yellow) for the rim and tire intersection and always have 51 PSI or more in your tires. They are marked "Display only" for liability issues. I have logged about 200 miles on them.


----------



## Rambler (Jul 13, 2012)

schwinndoggy said:


> I went the Robert Dean route on my Iver Johnson. I couldn't be happier. Personally, I prefer to keep things original. If you go this route, use 3M glue (Yellow) for the rim and tire intersection and always have 51 PSI or more in your tires. They are marked "Display only" for liability issues. I have logged about 200 miles on them.




I'm glad to hear that the Robert Dean tires work so well. If only he would make them in gray/white like the 1890 era bikes used I wouldn't hesitate to purchase several pair even at a slightly higher cost. I have a few bikes I would rather go the original route with.


----------



## bike (Jul 13, 2012)

*It is foolish to ride pre war tires with coton cords*

Ever seen a grown man cry-? When your $500 minty looking tires blow out cause the cotton (sp) has rotted inside the tires it is a very sad day. I have had lots of tires I bought where the person aired them up to 30 lbs and BAM! blow out- sometimes when riding sometimes when just sitting there- In the past I would  buy blown out color tread tires boot and glue them for display bikes--- ALL my pre war tires that mean anything I hand pump to shape 8-10 lbs and that is for display only.

Also post on the wheelman site to get info on harpers- they used to say for display only Not only have I seen several year old sets that never were used crack- but they do not wear very well as riders. if you must ride a 28" bike or pre war bike have og wheel set for display and use a wheel set with modern rims 700c I guess for 28" - pre war balloon can use post war tires for riding- nylon or polyester cord or modern tires- chen shin gts are pretty good copies of Goodyear double eagles.

I have ridden bikes with pre war tires that I do not care about and put many miles on them but you are playing roulette if you ride expensive tires- it is just a matter of time till you lose one. I am sure there are exceptions to this as every other rule but buyer beware.


Hope this helps to preserve at least one set of OG pre war tires.
-pg collecting and dealing old bikes + parts for over 25 years


----------



## Nick-theCut (Jul 13, 2012)

Those are awesome.  Where does Charlie sell these?


----------



## Larmo63 (Jul 14, 2012)

*Ghisallo wood rims....*

These are another option


----------



## bike (Jul 14, 2012)

*Some friends and I approached Harper and Coker years ago to do white*

easier to justify the money for white

they said 
not worth it cause too many blems- 
but coker does do mtc tires in white- go figure
maybe when the value of these bikes goes up enough they will see the demand


----------



## michaels (Jul 17, 2012)

Hey guys, great thread I am just about to embark on the same wheel tire problem. The bike's are my dads Elgin and grandfathers Pierce. I was hoping to stay original but the idea of the 700 swap is very appealing and will make the bikes usable for me and future generations to ride them. Neither bike has been ridden in over 50 years so getting them ridable is most important to me. Plus the wheels can always be swapped back. Thanks for the great info
-Michael S


----------



## Iverider (Jul 17, 2012)

michaels said:


> Hey guys, great thread I am just about to embark on the same wheel tire problem. The bike's are my dads Elgin and grandfathers Pierce. I was hoping to stay original but the idea of the 700 swap is very appealing and will make the bikes usable for me and future generations to ride them. Neither bike has been ridden in over 50 years so getting them ridable is most important to me. Plus the wheels can always be swapped back. Thanks for the great info
> -Michael S




Suppose we need to start a poll for those in favor of chain or button tread (or whatever period tread) in 700c size! 

White and black! I'm sure people would love to pair wood clinchers (Like Larmo's beautiful wheelset) with a period tread. I know I would! 

It's not like a cyclocross tire in 700-38c would require that much re-engineering to put a different tread on it. 
Market it as a "Classic Look" tire to use bike-addicts. Done.

I don't think it would hurt the current singletube market. Purists, and anyone with nice original rims, will still buy singletubes.


----------



## Nick-theCut (Jul 17, 2012)

I second your post Krautwaggon!
There are so many of us, a major manufacturer could totally make money on this demand.
In the mean time, I think Robert Dean is the period tread way to go.


----------



## michaels (Jul 18, 2012)

I would vote for the chain tread with white walls, only beacause thats what my Elgin has(had) on it. When I get to the Pierce I may need something different.


----------



## Iverider (Jul 18, 2012)

Place your vote for 700c repros here

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?29983-28-quot-Reproduction-Tire-for-700c-Clincher-Rim


----------



## Nick-theCut (Jul 18, 2012)

Can someone tell me what modern glue on single tube tires are out there that fit 28" metal clads?

700c X 38?
700c X 40? What is the 2nd # measurement... Rim width?
Which brand carriers these?


----------



## scrubbinrims (Jul 18, 2012)

There is something about the real thing that just feels right and looks right.




I almost bought some singletube tires from Harper WV at one time, but I could not get over the stamping of "display use only" and the non-period tread.
I understand they are a great service to many and I am not discouraging use as there are simply not enough surviving singleubes to meet demand.
Chris


----------



## Iverider (Jul 18, 2012)

But Chris, your photo proves fake can be fun. Even if it looks a little "off"


----------

