# Prewar metal finish?



## dirtman (Mar 3, 2021)

After getting some valuable info on these over in the main forum, I'll bring this here now since both of these bikes fit best in this forum.

I'm looking at putting two bikes together that I bought a part of a lot some time ago, one is mid to late 30's Cleveland Welding built Western Flyer, the other a Westfield, (possibly an Elgin), from either '39 or '40.  ( I found several Elgin Headbadges but none match the 2 7/8" vertical screw holes in my frame).

As I did through the boxes of parts, I'm slowly sorting out the parts for each, plus a few boxes of likely unrelated parts. 
For the WF, I seem to have everything but the handlebars and pedals, but do have a newer pair of cruiser type bars and a newer set of Union pedals. I have a new old stock set of both Davis and Western Flyer branded tires for this bike. 

For the Elgin, I have a frame and fork, crankset, a pair of wheels which have box style rims and an Elgin air cooled rear hub and unknown smooth front hub. This bike came with what appears to be generic painted fenders with individual braces.

The only parts that appear to have been chrome on the Westfield are the hubs. All else looks to have been painted black. The original bars and pedals are also missing for this bike. The tires on the rims are shot, rotted away to not much more than threads and bits of rubber. 

My question is, how were parts like cranks, stems, handlebars, and seat posts usually finished on these non-tank model bikes?





Both stems I have appear to be completely unplated, both were painted, the WF stem was painted gray/silver, the Elgin's stem was black.
Both were pretty well rusted and I've soaked off the rust with Evaporust, leaving basically bare steel stems. There's no sign of chrome or nickel plating anywhere on these. 

I also have a few other chrome plated stems but I suspect those are much newer, possibly from Schwinn bikes. 

Considering the year, I have my doubts as to whether or not the rims that are with the Elgin belong with it, but after 80 years anything is possible. 
The WF came from the original owner, and he swore all the parts with it are original except for the front hub and bars. His kid tore it down and gave it a rattle can paint job in the 1970's, he tore it back down to restore it 20 years after that and never went any further. I bought it along with all the other parts over 10 years ago. 


The cranks have been painted silver, but after removing the silver, they appear to be bare steel, with no sign of plating, even in between the bearings. 
The chrome bits in this pic look out of place. The sprocket on the bike is thinner than the chrome replacement it came with. 
None of the seat posts in this pic fit either bike, both likely had bent style 5/8" posts, with the WF using one of the adapters shown. 
I have truss rods, both are dull or galvanized looking, and several upper truss brackets that I believe are likely for the Westfield.


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## dirtman (Mar 3, 2021)

Here's a few of the boxes and bags of parts that came with the two frames I got.
It looks to me like the guy had stripped a handful of bikes, both pre and post war, of various brands.
There's also a trash barrel full of misc. chainguards, kickstands, and fender braces. 
He had the bottom bracket parts and headset parts sorted in ziplock bags. 
There's a dozen or so prewar seat posts, a box of skip link sprockets, and a box of 1/2" chain sprockets. 
Two boxes of chain, a bucket of 1/2" chain, and two boxes of bb cups. 
It was roughly a full pickup truck load in all. 



Seat posts



Master links and half links



New Departure hub parts



Milk crate full of small parts in bags



headsets



jars of small parts, bearings, and brackets
(Not sure what some of the bearing sizes fit? Some of those bearings are 3/8" balls. 


fender stays, rear racks. 
Some of the older fender braces are way too long to fit a 26" bike



chains
There are five types of 1" pitch chains, and a few even larger chains, possibly motorcycle?
There's also a box of very small link chain that doesn't match either 1/2" or 1" bike chain.



48 to 52 tooth Sprockets
There's another box of misc. skip link sprockets that hadn't been unloaded yet.


3/4" and 13/16" seat posts and shims



5/8" seat posts



wooden box full of small parts and bearings







several boxes of older BB cups



more bags of bearings


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## dirtman (Mar 3, 2021)

I almost forgot, there's four tubs full of headbadges that came with it all. 
The headbadges were what I was there to see in the first place when I ended up buying the two bikes.
The Highway Patrol badge below belongs on the one Columbia, which is a complete bike, circa 1949 or so.
Out of almost 7,000 headbadges, not a one fits the Westfield built frame with its 2 7/8" vertical hole spacing, including one that says 'Westfield'. 
The Roadmaster and Western Flyer badges fit the CWC frame.
A good many of the headbadges are imported as well, only about a quarter or so are American, with a good many of those likely being much older. 
The last lot is all British, he's got them sorted in tubs by country and age in small bags sorted in ziplock bags. 
There's one whole box with just Schwinn, and several bags of Columbia badges in brass and aluminum. 
The headbadge lot filled the back seat of my crew cab Ford.
The rest filled the bed with the tailgate down.







These are the two frames, as posted in the general forum before:
both have rather poor rattle can paint jobs, but that can be fixed.


1936-39? CWC /Wester Flyer 
(original color appears to be sort of a cranberry red color).




1940 Westfield
Original color appears to be White with a brown/red headtube, that was painted over first with green, then red, then blue, ....and finally black. 

This also came with the lot, I was told the headbadge read Highway Patrol


This one is a bit rough, but its ridable. The handlebars and stem are painted silver, most of the bike is repainted with a brush. 
The grips and pedals obviously don't belong but the tires are vintage Carlisle Lightnings and they still hold air despite missing a few chunks of tread here and there.
The guy I got it from said it belonged to his brother and that it originally had a Hiway Patrol headbadge, the one in the pic above. 
It was either that or a Columbia badge, either fit and match the paint scheme from what I found.


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## 1motime (Mar 4, 2021)

Quite a score!  At least most of it looks like it was sorted already!


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## dirtman (Mar 4, 2021)

Its sorted in that everything is separated in ziplock bags but the guy saved everything, good or bad. 
I've been slowly going one bag at a time and getting rid of the junk parts. There's lots of junk parts that he stored right along with the good parts. Sprockets with missing teeth, bad bearings, broken hubs, rusty spokes, etc. 

None of the parts are cleaned, he saved them as they came out off the bike. 
A lot of the parts were bagged but the majority of the boxes and bags are not labeled as to what they came from or what's in each box. He also had new parts boxed up with unrelated, old rusty parts.

He sorted things like bearings and other small parts but poured loose ball bearings all into one container. 
The good thing is that I'll likely never have to buy ball bearings again, there's about 20 Mayonaise jars full of new loose ball bearings, the down side is that every one is a combination of sizes ranging from 1/8" to 3/8". 

What bike used 3/8" ball bearings?


Any idea what headbadge for a Westfield frame had 2 7/8" screw hole spacing?


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## dirtman (Mar 5, 2021)

Here's a few more parts dug out of the boxes:


26t 5 point  (There are a few of these in green as well but those are well used or worn out)
Any idea what these were used on?



22t 6 point 
Any idea what these were used on?



48T Stars, AMF? Roadmaster? 
A few of these are marked in wax pencil '59 AMF and '58 Roadmaster.



22t green - There are a few of these, both in 22t and 26t, all are painted the same shade of green. One is black. 
They appear to be new. There are also several 26t sprockets that match the one on the black Westfield frame also in 
green. Along with several pair of handlebars, cranks, seat posts and stems all painted the same color.



Forged chrome stems, there are three or four versions of these, all are chrome. 
I'm guessing these are most likely Schwinn?


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## nightrider (Mar 5, 2021)

The solid one is Elgin, I believe. And the skiptooth star also. Are you selling any of the 26 tooth solid ones?
Johnny


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## dirtman (Mar 5, 2021)

Here's a few more I dug out today. The Schwinn rings are likely for a pair of 50's middleweight frames I also got from the same place. 
Am I right to think that all the 22t skiptooth rings are likely off ladies models? or are they off smaller bikes? Although there's a few smaller sprockets, I didn't find a lot of smaller bike parts. There is a few 24 and 28h hub shells but they've been gutted for parts. 


8 hole 52t - Unknown - Likely newer, chrome is not as good as the older stuff



Schwinn 46t



48t (Was tagged Rollfast LW)



48t



15t - 18t (18t was tagged Columbia)



20t


22t (Was tagged Rollfast)


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## dirtman (Mar 5, 2021)

So far this is the closest I've found to what my black frameset maybe should look like:
https://luxlow.com/bicycles/1940-41-sears-elgin-special-deluxe-hanging-tank-bike/
I have a headbadge that looks like the one on the red bike in the ad but it don't match the holes in my frame. 
Where there other brands made by Westfield that may have had a larger headbadge? 
Or have I just not found the right Elgin headbadge?


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## dirtman (Mar 6, 2021)

Found some more headbadges in another box packed away separately, these area all for a much larger diameter headtube than 
any of the others so far. They were in a plastic shoe box marked simply "Old".
Some of these are duplicates of what I found in one of the big tubs of badges. The 'Red Wing' badge looks very similar to another marked Iver Johnson. 
All of these except the 'The Liberty' badge are heavy brass.



Left to right from the top:
Row 1 > *American Standard* _Columbus Cycle & Sporting Goods Columbus, OH_  /  *Red Wing* _New England Bicycle Co. Worcester, Mass._  /  *Crescent*  /  *Rollfast*  /  *The Liberty Cycle* _NY_, _USA_  /  *Tribune* _Mod 28, Westfield Mfg. Co. Westfield, Mass_  /  *The Overland Special* 
Row 2 >* Century*, _Century Cycle Co_ / The Deluxe *Aero-Flyer* Roadster, _Cecil Walker_ / *Gray Hound* _FA Baker Co, NY_ / *Rollfast* / *North Star* _United Cycle Co Hartford, CT_ / *Peerless* / *Queen City* _FA Baker Co. NY_


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## ian (Mar 6, 2021)

dirtman said:


> Here's a few more parts dug out of the boxes:
> 
> View attachment 1367956
> 26t 5 point  (There are a few of these in green as well but those are well used or worn out)
> ...



The 48 tooth star ring is AMF. I have one on my '61 Skyrider.


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## dirtman (Mar 6, 2021)

Just noticed this on eBay, another sprocket painted the same shade of green as the one's I got here, (a few of mine are identical to the one for sale on eBay).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/353362135778?campid=5335809022
The eBay ad mentions US Army, but I've got quite a few parts that are in that same color. I've found bars, sprockets, cranks, stems, and wheels painted the same shade of green in this lot of parts. The guy who I got all this stuff from years ago had a military bike but it was a folder with a single tube frame.


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## dirtman (Mar 6, 2021)

Ian:  I think I have that chainguard too. Its yellow and white. I wish I had the whole bike, the only middleweight I've ever owned was a Schwinn Typhoon, which I still have, and one American that frame that came with this lot, but I'm missing a rim, chainguard, forks, and fenders for it.  It would be nice to have a middleweight that didn't use hard to find S7 tires.

Here's a few more things I found this afternoon.


Another green sprocket. So far I found two of these in green and one in black.
There's by far more 22t sprockets than any other. 
The green color these things are painted isn't the same green as say an old Army helmet from WWII, its a lighter, flat green color. 
I did just notice that the two metal buckets that most of the used chains were in are military buckets from Cosmoline solvent, and tarpoline water proof coating, and a few from some sort or oil. All of the buckets are green marked in bright yellow stenciling with two bung tops attached with metal tabs all around like an old paint bucket. I put some of the chains in a bucket of gasoline outside to soak, the grease on them was hard as stone.



3/8" square holes in the middle, no clue what these are from?
I was thinking maybe off a kiddie trike but most small trikes don't have sprockets, and the small size 
would make it near impossible to pedal. Maybe a pedal car? Some sort of idler?



New Departure Model D Cutaway display hub.  




Wald stems, nothing special but these things seem to be multiplying, there's one or two in every box I've opened so far. 
I counted over 40 of them so far. I didn't realize there are several models of these, there are three different part numbers in this lot, with those on the bottom row being marked Model 4. The Model 4 is thicker steel without the center rib on top.
I've been digging out box after box looking for the kickstands for the CWC and the Elgin, I know they're here somewhere. 
There's also a big box of brand new Model D hubs that I've not found yet.  I'm pretty sure they got brought inside and put on a shelf downstairs but so far, no luck but I've got a whole row of shelves I haven't gotten to yet, the whole isle is blocked with boxes yet and a dozen or so bikes.


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## dirtman (Mar 14, 2021)

I did some more digging today, found these, also the same flat green color.

They are a square profile rim with no markings anywhere.
They're roughly twice the weight of a Schwinn S2 rim.


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## 1motime (Mar 14, 2021)

dirtman said:


> I did some more digging today, found these, also the same flat green color.
> 
> They are a square profile rim with no markings anywhere.
> They're roughly twice the weight of a Schwinn S2 rim.
> ...



Heavy duty!


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## Superman1984 (Mar 14, 2021)

@dirtman those HD wheels are probably modern. If you check husky bicycles they sell them along with many others; usually 12g & 11g like a generic Worksman wheel kinda. Even box store Huffies have them a lot of time with standard 12g spokes & generic or Shimano CB stamped coaster hubs. You want a girl's late 50s-60s 26x1.75 project? Here ya go. 
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/amf-cwc-50s-silver-streak-fs-ft.188072/


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## dirtman (Mar 15, 2021)

I've seen the Husky and Worksman bikes, the Worksman rim is more like a moped rim, dimpled spoke holes and rolled edges, the Husky bikes I've seen all had super duty alloy rims. 
The rims on the 49 Columbia look pretty much the same as the green rims, but in black with pinstripes. 

The spoke holes aren't huge on the green rims, they may fit a 12ga spoke nipple but I'm guessing their for 14ga. They do make the Schwinn rims look light duty though. I don't doubt they could be newer, but I have my doubts as to how new they are. I've never run across anything like these on any modern bike, and not on any Huffy in the last 40 or so years. They're just too heavy made. I've had newer middle weight and balloon tire rims, including a few repop rims but these are not like those. They're also pretty wide, wider than a Schwinn S-2 but not as wide as a Worksman rim. 
I have a pair of wheels off a modern beach cruiser from the 80's, those rims are stout but they also have sharper corners on the box section, and they're destinctly marked Sun Products on the rim with a bunch of smaller text stamped in as well.

I'm still trying to figure out why all the green parts, most of the green parts look brand new, so I'm leaning toward it being maybe some sort of primer they shipped old painted parts in? But there's also some of the same parts in a somewhat shiny black paint. 
I'm guessing that the no chrome stuff is likely war time? I know the black ND hubs are WWII era production, but did they make other painted parts during the war? When did painted parts begin?

My Westfield was identified as a 1940 model, yet the cranks and sprocket are painted black, and don't appear to have been chromed before. The headset and BB cups look just galvanized vs chrome. 
The seat post is also painted. 

On the CWC, the original cranks, headset, and front sprocket were nickle or chrome plated, as are the hubs. 



Here's a set of wheels off a modern .105 spoked 'Newsboy' or warehouse type bike. These were off of a 'newsboy' bike sold by one of the industrial supply houses in the late 80's and 90's:
Note the square shoulder area of the rim and convex rims shape compared to the green rims I have. These are stout rims but no where close to the weight or thickness of the green rims. These rims are clearly marked Made in Taiwan and have the size stamped in them near the valve stem. The spokes are 12g. They were marketed as ".105 spoke rims".




I worked in a place for a number of years in the late 90's that had a handful of Worksman heavy duty cruisers and a few Worksman Mover Trikes. 
Those things were okay for around the building but they were not good bikes for any sort of distance or casual riding. When they were still new, I took one of the balloon tire bikes with me on vacation in the RV, along with a pair of older Schwinn middle weights I had. The Worksman was a strong bike but it moved as well as a row boat in mud on dirt trails and such. I had assembled that bike myself and gone over it to be sure it was all well adjusted right out of the box. It came with new Kevlar belted Goodyear tread 26x2.125 tires on Worksman dimpled 'moped' style rims with 10ga spokes. The cranks, bars, stem, and fenders were all Wald. The bike came with plastic pedals, which I swapped out for large aluminum KKT platform pedals. The rear hub was a three speed Shimano PPS with a trigger shifter. The front wheel had drum brakes. After set up, I made sure the wheels spun true and free, I even relubed the thing with good synthetic grease knowing I was going to 'borrow it' before putting it out for warehouse service. If I had really liked it, I'd have probably kept it and got them another one but I was so ready to get rid of that thing it wasn't funny. The fit and finish was pretty much on par with a later Schwinn or Columbia bike, nothing special but nothing horrible, the wheels were the star of the show but the thing rolled like it was going through deep sand even on smooth pavement and the gearing was all wrong. 1st gear was too high, and forget 2nd and 3rd for anything but downhill. 
Taking off from a standstill was like getting rolling on an old 10 speed stuck in high gear heading up hill. More than once I pulled the wheels to make sure something wasn't dragging on the bike but found nothing. 
Once back at work, I rode one of the lesser, year old models and it rode a lot better, that one a single speed with plain tires and no front brakes, just a Shimano Coaster brake. 
Those bikes got abused pretty bad once in use, the common failure mode was the forklift............. Which usually is what ran them over after someone left them sitting in an isle. The good part was that they were 'work' bikes and usually all it took was a new wheel and some creative hammer work to get them going again. The trikes faired better but most didn't use them unless they had too. The worst thing I remember happening to one was someone let one roll off a loading dock with a barrel or scrap shavings on the rear deck. The result was a bent fork and bent seat post, nothing else. I eventually straightened the fork and got a new seat post for it, and tossed the twisted front fender. 
They weren't cheap, back then we were paying $500 for the trikes and $250 for the two wheelers. 
They later started buying from a catalog company and the bikes were Schwinn DX clones with 105 spokes, and no more 'big' trikes.  Towards the end they were going with solid foam tires, but those would roll off the rim if someone got too aggressive on turns and they were costly to lose if one got damaged. Luckily we had a huge steam cleaner there for cleaning printing plates that I'd use to soften up the new solid tires. They would slide right on after a minute or two in the hot water bath at 220°F Right before I retired they had a few Segways but I don't think they lasted very long before they closed up.


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## Superman1984 (Mar 15, 2021)

1st pic is a Husky 11g, 2nd pic is 1 generic 11g & the zip tied wheels; Black Huffy Cranbrook 12g & the chrome was a wald hub also 12g


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## Superman1984 (Mar 15, 2021)

Trust me I doubt you found that many prewar green parts (likely flat or satin paint guessing) & if you did then I would suggest buying a few lottery tickets before putting a lot of them up for sale. No offense intended. Reason being is Not everything is branded when repopped due to having to pay up & patent rights etc. Some guys prime or paint everything to preserve the finish until they use it or figure what they're doing with it. Just my thoughts/experiences with some things


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## dirtman (Mar 16, 2021)

If they're not prewar, when or what are they from? 
I can't say what these parts were from or how the last owner got them, all I know is that they were all from the same guys basement about 10 years ago or so. 
The rims are not prewar style but they look to be the same rims as what's on the '49 Columbia but in some sort of flat green paint. They look like new rims, there's no rust, the spoke bed is perfectly flat, and there's no 'tool' marks on them anywhere. 
Your Cranbrook and Husky rims look like the newer newsboy bike rims I have here off the warehouse bike, the shape of the rim looks the same. They look to have a slightly rounded top surface with fairly sharp corners. 
The green rims, and the rims on the '49 Columbia are very rounded on the edges but flat across the top. 

The two chrome rims I posted came from a bike that was bought from an industrial supply catalog 20-25 years ago. They were common around here and the badging varied but they were all imported clones of a typical newsboy model bicycle with 105 spokes and balloon tires, using a Schwinn DX style frame.
They were bought through a catalog who sold Industrial and Janitorial Supplies, (not Granger, who sold Worksman back then). 
I have no idea who actually made them but all of those rims are clearly stamped Made in Taiwan which even if covered up on the surface shows through to the inside of the rim. I don't see any signs of any stamped lettering on these green rims, or on the rims on the Columbia.
I also can't say for sure if the rims on the Columbia are original or not, that bike has been repainted, but it does appear to have been black originally. 
The repaint isn't very recent. 

The green paint on these parts is completely flat but its not soft like a primer, more like some sort of finish coat but I'm not a paint expert. It don't seem to just be rattle can paint since it holds up to solvents. It is not military green, OD green is much darker, and I've got original samples here to compare to in some old military helmets and a WWII army shovel. OD green is 20 shades darker and more of an olive green, this green is more what I'd call pea green. 
All of the parts that are painted green are pretty much the same shade of green. There are some green parts that also have black versions in the same lot. 
The green paint doesn't come off easily, it holds up to acetone and solvents. I scratched a few used pieces to see if there was black paint or any plating underneath but there isn't, its bare smooth steel. 

When I moved this stuff years ago, I really didn't notice the green parts, most everything was boxed up or wrapped up. The rims were wrapped in brown paper, as were some of the older tires. (There were a lot of new old 26x1.375" Uniroyal tires). Things like the sprockets were boxed with other plated parts mixed in with the used sprockets, every grean sprocket was wrapped in a folded piece of brown waxy paper, a few were in thin boxes with other like sprockets. 
There is also two boxes of 22t galvanized 'Wald' sprockets and a few 26t Wald sprockets as well. Those are simple 5 solid spoke sprockets. 
The one box has is dated 2-19-1950 on it in pencil.  There are two unopened boxes of 1" pitch chain one Diamond Brand, the other is from Union, with a handful of Duckworth and other brand chains. Roughly two large shoe boxes of new skiptooth chains. There's also a bucket of used chain, plus a bunch of other types of chain, skiptooth but with solid middle links, and some single sided chain, which can't be used upside down due to the shape of the link plates. 
I think some of the parts likely are older than balloon tire, or at least are early 30's parts. 
I'm slowly digging out the boxes and trying to ID it all. My gut feeling is that a lot of the new parts were just generic repair parts available back then. 
The sellers  proximity to an old US Army Airbase does have me thinking if any of it did come from there. 
One of the things I'm finding is that boxes aren't sorted by part type but by what ever bike he took them from or when he acquired them. Boxes marked simply '1952' will have an assortment of parts in them, none being from 1952. Some boxes are marked with last names, or stuff like 'Jim's Bike' and then a date on the box. I also got the impression that some of the boxes may have been from someone before him, like he got them that way or he may have taken over someone else's collection at some point.

I've not seen any of the newer Huffy bikes around here, Walmart seems to have stopped selling bikes here, and when they did they only had those pink and light blue flowered beach cruisers and full suspension mountain bikes. I don't recall anything not being branded either Schwinn or Pacific in recent years. 
I've also not seen a Husky branded bike in person but they look on par with what most industrial supply houses are selling.
I have seen a few newer Schwinn Heavy Duti bikes by Pacific, one local factory bought a few and weren't too happy with them. I've not worked on one so I can't speak for the quality.  The newer Heavy Duti has morphed into a balloon tire model, most likely since they no longer run S7 rims but standard 26" or 559mm rims and can run an array of tire widths. (As far as I know, the S7 size was limited to 26x1 3/4"). 

What I do keep seeing is bikes branded JC Higgins, they are modern day steel wheel beach cruisers with a cantilever frame and chrome steel wheels. No fenders, or short fenders, and single speed with wide cruiser bars. I've run into a half dozen or so of them lately for sale used. We haven't had a Sears in 5 years, and before that they didn't carry bikes for at least 15 years, these bikes are newer. The tires are whitewall Carlisle Lightning Dart copies with no branding on them. I realize that JC Higgins was a Sears brand but I can't find anything showing where Sears marketed these, I also can't find any sign of them online, and the few I saw were all in near new condition.  None were cheap enough to buy, or likely would have. Everyone I saw for sale was over $100 used. I generally stay away from anything newer, especially department store brands. It would be nice to know where they got the tires for those bikes though. 
I've not seen anyone selling a similar tire, and if they made a whitewall, maybe they made it in black as well.


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## Superman1984 (Mar 16, 2021)

@dirtman that is weird if full strength acetone or a decent "paint remover" won't do anything but modern day Goof Off Graffiti remover is the harshest off the shelf stripper I know of that hasn't been "weakened" . Could it be powder coated? I mean it wouldn't be an original vintage process but powder is the only thing I know that seems to be that resilient/resistant. If the people were heavily into things it could have been acid stripped or sandblasted & that may explain the lack of plating? At this point I'm not saying anything is certain. Just what I could see. I have some 20" wheels that are the "square flat profile" but they rounded like the traditional S2. Only a few of these wheels in 20-24-26 I have are marked or stamped Taiwan. They all are probably made there but I was saying not all companies stamp them due to another cost/process. I do believe the Husky purchased 1is though. The Husky trike I  have is industrial made but Taiwan. I don't want to keep cluttering your thread but I can show you anything you may want to see. I would be interested in seeing those JC Higgins modern bikes ... even if 1 of your local ads. Like you said Sears has been gone for a while & they didn't sell much for bicycles. Walmart is out of everything due to Covid & people trying to get rich by doubling the box store bikes prices. I know I like going through stuff but it gets overwhelming or aggravating when you have so much or it's all mixed with "junk" that isn't any good. Good Luck


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## dirtman (Mar 16, 2021)

Here's one that was on CL for a bit, they were asking $325 for it. There were two at a local flea market a week ago for $125 each.
The headbadges are thick foil, a copy of the late 50's JC Higgins badge but in a decal. The seat tube also has a small round 'Made by JC Higgins' decal, and at the bottom of the seat tube there's a made in China decal.
The stem and bars are Wald or Wald copies, the saddle is the same as the one I have off a Worksman, the tires on this one were marked both Kenda and Allstate on the side. The frame was externally welded, with either a really smooth tig weld or a poor attempt at fillet brazing. Not at all like the pics I've seen of the Huffy bikes. The rims were a dark chrome, at first I thought they were stainless, but they appear either tinted or just a darker chrome. They're a flat top, rounded corner rim but not as wide as the older box rims I have. The rims were marked only with the size, 26x2.125 near the valve hole, with a small warning decal as well. The cranks were typical crude one piece models, the kind that look like the chopped the ends off with a bolt cutter. The chain ring looked good and was in the usual JC Higgins pattern with chrome similar to the rims.
A few I've seen had shorty fenders, I saw one ladies version with full chrome fenders, and another with full white fenders on a green bike. I've seen these in this green, in blue, and dark red. The few I looked at didn't look terrible. If it were under a $100, I'd have bought it just out of curiosity. The rear hub was a Shimano clone, with an unbranded brake arm. The spokes were 14g, and looked to be stainless steel.
I've seen these with two different chainguards, one like the bike below, and another that covers the entire front chain ring like on an old Columbia.
One thing that really cheapened the whole bike is that the chainguard is attached at the front with a self tapping sheetmetal screw driven right into the down tube. The CG bracket is spot welded to the CG and it bends upward not down, I suppose so the screw can be driven in from above the CG.

The color throws off the whole nostalgia thing, the paint is a modern metallic with obvious metal flakes. Something I've not seen on a 50's era bike. Back then it would likely have been either a candy finish or a solid color. 




Pic from CL ad from Feb 2021

I have a guy dropping off a pair of wheels from a warehouse bike that need the hubs serviced, I'm not sure if he's bringing me the just the wheels or the whole bike but they have a bunch of the same Taiwan built industrial bikes, most are generally fairly new as they go through them pretty quick. Most have solid or foam filled tires though to survive use there.
If I remember right, those rims were all black or dark chrome steel on safety yellow bikes. I don't recall the brand offhand though.
'


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## Superman1984 (Mar 16, 2021)

Ahhh the typical cantilever frame made by every manufacturer under the sun now. Nothing to be impressed with as you stated. Thanks


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## dirtman (Mar 16, 2021)

Here's the wheels they brought me off of an 'Atlas' bike, 26x2.125, no stampings but they're a convex rim with rather sharp corners, much like the chrome wheels I posted before but in black chrome with lighter spokes.
These are a Shimano coaster brake rear hub with a standard chrome steel front hub.  Both axles are 10mm. 
These have a solid tire insert in them, I'm told they've been out of true ever since they installed the inserts. 
(Its a hard foam rubber insert that gets cut to length with an inner sleeve to join the two ends, its then put into the tire and forced on the rim with a special installing tool. 
The tires on these are still in good shape on these, it must not see much use, the last pair they brought me to fix had a broken axle and the tire had burn spots all over it from running over molten glass. I've also had them with chunks of glass stuck through the solid tire and right through the rim. This is the first one I've seen with gumwall tires, which are marked Atlas but look like common Kenda All Terrain tires. Most of their bikes have solid blackwall old style knobby tires or Goodyear tread tires with the same inserts.






Typical Asian steel rim profile, round on top, with sharp corners.


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## dirtman (Mar 16, 2021)

Superman1984 said:


> Ahhh the typical cantilever frame made by every manufacturer under the sun now. Nothing to be impressed with as you stated. Thanks



I actually thought the frame looked pretty goo for a cheap bike, the external welds were significant an it looked like they attempted to do a fillet around the main tubes, they just didn't do it like a Schwinn. Most canti frames I've seen have either no visible weld or a sloppy mess with grapes hanging all over the weld. I read a few reviews on the Huffy Cranbrook and the way the welds looked was one of the big complaints. My biggest issue with the thing was that screw just jammed through the tube to hold the chainguard on. It should have either had a braze on there or wrap around clamp vs. a sheetmetal screw. I can see that screw eventually coming loose, or getting stripped, then some idiot shoving some giant self tapping screw in there. I think one of the worst things is to drill an unsupported hole in a main tube. Its going to rust if it gets wet, and that type of bike usually gets kept at someone's beach house outside on the porch or under the deck, or locked to a railing at the boat dock, so its going to see saltwater. A few of them I saw had rusty spoke nipples, but the rims and spokes were fine. The Wald bits will rust quickly too.


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## dirtman (Mar 16, 2021)

Here's a few more things I found this morning:


These are apparently new, they were wrapped up in brown paper in a box of 6 each.
There's a box of these in bare steel, a box of these in a green/gray color, and a box of these in black.
They are two parts welded together in the middle. There's two stamps in the metal, one looks like a shield,
the second looks like a round bomb with a fuse.





Plated rear rack with glass rear reflector. The reflector surround is made to fit the holes in the rack.
There are several of these, some in white, some in red, and two in chrome.




26t chainrings, there's a box of 6 of these in this finish, and a box in the green finish.
These were in both Wald brown envelopes, and in Dayton marked Envelopes.

There's a bigger box I didn't pull out yet marked misc. chainguards, the box is marked 'Dayton - Huffman Mfg Co. Dayton, Ohio'.
It full of early chainguards, some wrapped in original brown paper, some wrapped in old newspaper.

I'm still digging for the kickstands and boxes of hubs. They likely got put in the front of the trailer when we moved them so as not to overload the shelving in there. I did happen on a box of about 10 old Messinger sprung saddles, likely from the 50's or so.


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## 1motime (Mar 16, 2021)

dirtman said:


> Here's a few more things I found this morning:
> 
> View attachment 1373903
> These are apparently new, they were wrapped up in brown paper in a box of 6 each.
> ...



Your attachments are not coming through


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## Superman1984 (Mar 16, 2021)

You planning on selling anything @dirtman ?


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## dirtman (Mar 16, 2021)

I probably will but not till I'm sure of what I need for these five bikes.


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## dirtman (Mar 16, 2021)

Any idea what the chainguards or racks fit? 
The rack is straight front to back, it won't fit the Westfield, and I don't think It'll work on the Western Flyer either. 
When did glass reflectors become a thing of the past?


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## Superman1984 (Mar 16, 2021)

dirtman said:


> Any idea what the chainguards or racks fit?
> The rack is straight front to back, it won't fit the Westfield, and I don't think It'll work on the Western Flyer either.
> When did glass reflectors become a thing of the past?



When the bean counters decided they wanted to stick more & more into their pockets for lesser quality in mass quantity .... I imagine by late 40s plastic started to be the start of the norm. Jus' a guess


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## dirtman (Mar 17, 2021)

I think the plastic reflectors were actually an improvement, the old glass versions weren't that great and the mirror backing would fall off if it got wet too many times. A quick fix is to mold a piece of aluminum foil to the back of an old glass reflector to restore some of its function. Without the backing, its just red glass with bumps on it. 
The chrome rack has me puzzled, its got bright modern looking chrome yet its got a glass reflector. The reflector is special to the rack, its got three tabs that fit into the rack that are folded over rather than a nut and bolt. The painted versions have a single stud and nut, a few have rubber inserts. 
That rack is an odd fit, the front clamp area is level with the top of the rack, so it means that the seat clamp has to be above the highest point of the fender for it to work. It will not fit the Westfield since its seat clamp is part of the frame and very low, it may work on the CWC but it'll be against the fender.
The packaging is pretty non-descript on the racks, only one says Murray bicycles, another one is in a Wald package but those are different than these.

The chainguards give me the impression of maybe being older than balloon tire bikes or off a lightweight model of that time?
I've been looking at pictures but haven't seen a CG like these. 
The larger ones in the Dayton box look like most of the early 40's and wartime bikes. 
I also found another box of chainguards to match the star sprocket, I think I have all the colors covered now, there's four or five styles all in the same shape and stamping.


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## Superman1984 (Mar 17, 2021)

dirtman said:


> I think the plastic reflectors were actually an improvement, the old glass versions weren't that great and the mirror backing would fall off if it got wet too many times. A quick fix is to mold a piece of aluminum foil to the back of an old glass reflector to restore some of its function. Without the backing, its just red glass with bumps on it.
> The chrome rack has me puzzled, its got bright modern looking chrome yet its got a glass reflector. The reflector is special to the rack, its got three tabs that fit into the rack that are folded over rather than a nut and bolt. The painted versions have a single stud and nut, a few have rubber inserts.
> That rack is an odd fit, the front clamp area is level with the top of the rack, so it means that the seat clamp has to be above the highest point of the fender for it to work. It will not fit the Westfield since its seat clamp is part of the frame and very low, it may work on the CWC but it'll be against the fender.
> The packaging is pretty non-descript on the racks, only one says Murray bicycles, another one is in a Wald package but those are different than these.
> ...



I wish I could be of more help. Those star sprockets are awesome. If my '61 AMF doesn't sell then I'm using it to build somethin' Hellaciously Custom; star chain ring, guard, & clearing the fender mounts for balloon fenders. I am thinking TRM tank & some extreme craziness. You can easily sell them here or it seems


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## dirtman (Mar 18, 2021)

Here's a few more things I dug out of the boxes of parts last night.



unknown green rack



Unknown black rack - this one is very long, nearly 8 inches longer than the 
green rack above. (This one seems to have the same slobbered on paint job 
that the Westfield frame does but I don't see how it would have mounted 
given that the Westfield frame's seat clamp bolt is set so low).



The wooden box these were in was marked 'later model seat posts'.



Top bolt style posts



Out of two huge boxes of BB cups, and after cleaning them all to get 
a better idea of their condition, this is all that  was really worth keeping. 
The old guy saved everything, good or bad. I must say though, may of the 
wired together pairs he saved, many had one good cup, and one bad cup
thus after cleaning and matching up with other good 'like' bb cups, they made 
a usable set. I'm guessing these are likely from a kid's bike of some sort. 
They were boxed up with the American bottom brackets, which them selves 
vary between 50.5 and 53mm with depths varying by as much as a 1/4".

Note the three small press fit cups in the corner, which I assumed were for 
Thompson bottom brackets but it seems the three pair in the pic are all
different sizes, both in depth and diameter, one pair measures 39.9 mm, 
one pair is 42.6mm, and the other is 40.15 mm. The smaller pair is also 
5/16" shorter.


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## dirtman (Mar 18, 2021)

I'm starting to think someone was buying out war surplus. 
I found several boxes of these, most of the 28h stuff is bare, but more than two dozen of the black hubs are complete in 36h.
Maybe someone bought a bunch of black and green stuff after the war ended on some sort of closeout. 
There's 11 green rear hubs that look unused, but have been laced, you can see black where the spokes were but the hubs are sprayed green. One box has a few bundles of green spokes too. 


The assemble rear hub appears brand new, there's a flat wood box 
with a dozen hubs in it stacked on end like eggs in a carton. Another 
box, painted green like the parts, has 11 green hubs in it, all unlaced 
from wheels. The front hubs were just loose in a box marked 'ND parts'.


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## 1motime (Mar 18, 2021)

I think you are having fun!  Interesting that the writing on the hubs are white in order to read


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## dirtman (Mar 18, 2021)

The fun part was finding it all years ago, now its more like work digging through it all and cleaning stuff up as I sort through it. Mainly so I can gain some storage space and get all this stuff organized. I'm not even half way through what's in the trailer and what's in the basement. The bad part is that the first things to get put away back then was the parts for the red Western Flyer, so those parts are the most buried. I know there's a full box of brand new ND model D hubs that are plated, and a half box of plated front hubs, but I've not found those yet, nor have I found the kick stands for these. I did spot the one Schwinn frame, I'll see if I can get hold of that in a little bit. 

I didnt realize there was this much stuff, it didn't look like all that much when I loaded it in the truck, after all, it all fit in the back of my truck, with a TALL cap, and in the cab. I bought a few drawer cabinets, and those are taking the place of about half the boxes. 
Cardboard boxes waste a lot of space, so do plastic tubs.

Those that are painted green don't have the white letters, in fact, some of the lettering is completely filled by the green paint, as if it was just slobbered on real heavy. The spokes I found are the same way. The hubs are slightly darker green than the rest of the parts with the exception of a few stems and the handlebars that are painted green.


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## dirtman (Mar 18, 2021)

A few more:




There's a half dozen or more just like this one.



Not sure what to make of this, a Thompson bottom bracket to fit an American one piece BB frame. (It was mixed in with the Schwinn BB cups).


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## dirtman (Mar 18, 2021)

Here's another frame, I have everything but the fork front wheel, chainguard, and saddle.


1957?






Bendix 2 speed hub


Decals say its an American, but the serial number doesn't show up on any of the
Schwinn serial number charts.

There's also front and rear chrome racks for this, new old stock chrome fenders, a front hub, a stem, grips, a green Schwinn saddle, and a new old stock Westwind tire.


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## Daytonman (Mar 18, 2021)

Any Davis/Huffman/Huffy badges?


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## dirtman (Mar 19, 2021)

Daytonman said:


> Any Davis/Huffman/Huffy badges?



Don't know for sure, I really didn't go through all the badges, just a handful or so of them so far. There's at least one more tub of them plus a few shoe boxes full of sorted badges in this mess somewhere. I'll keep an eye out for them. I do seem to recall seeing a really old Dayton badge but I think its a lot older than most of the rest. (There's one tub marked Pre-34 or something like that which I didn't get to yet. 
What I'm dealing with is that the first to be unloaded got buried first, so a lot of the stuff in the cab got packed away in the front of the trailer or in the basement, then all the bikes, frames and heavy stuff got put in front of it. Which is why I'm just getting to the frames, stems, cranks, etc. 
I'm also trying not to make it all feel too much like work. I spent almost 20 hours today digging through boxes and cleaning up a few parts. 

I'm actually trying to make room for some more stuff I promised someone I'd go get and most of that is all similar to the lot of stuff I already have. Not that I need any more junk in the basement but I hate to see it end up getting trashed, especially if there's something in there I can use. 
I just don't want to bury the stuff I already have with another load of parts and bikes, it'll end up getting lost forever down there. I'd also like to clear out my car trailer so I can use it when I need it.


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## dirtman (Mar 19, 2021)

After digging out the Schwinn American, I had to see what I had so I pulled the crank, cleaned it all up real quick
and was quite surprised at the difference when I looked at the before/after shots.
Worst part is the top tube, about half the paint on top is gone, and there's a good bit of surface rust that needs to be removed yet.
I simply cleaned it and polished what good paint was left for now. It needs to go into a huge bath of Evaporust over night.
Most of the lower part of the frame was just dirt stuck to years of grease.
The BB is like new, the chainring isn't even worn through the chrome and the original bearings still looked perfect.
Now I suppose I need to find a matching front fork for it, the proper chainguard, an S7 rim and tire, and a blue/white S saddle.




Before



After



Cranks cleaned up far better than I had figured they would.



After a good cleaning and some light polish the original color came back.


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## dirtman (Mar 19, 2021)

I got to thinking last night and I went digging in a box this morning out in the trailer that was marked "MISC".
At the bottom I found the fork for the Schwinn American, plus another Bendix 2 speed, and a super minty '56' dated Schwinn stem. I also found a set of blue fenders with white stripes that appear to match this bike hanging up in the trailer, way out of reach so far. That leaves only an S7 chrome rim, a chainguard, and tires that I need to put this thing together. 
Anyone happen to know what hub is actually correct for one of these? The trigger shifted Bendix hubs look older than this bike, I would have expected a kickback 2 speed hub?



I remember the guy who I got this from telling me he thought he did have the fork but after going through all the boxes marked Schwinn and all the forks and not finding one, I guess I assumed it was missing. It was in a huge 100 gallon storage tub the whole time with a bunch of other unrelated parts.



Somehow the stem was in the trailer and the bars were in the basement on the shelf, and the grips were a Raleigh three speed, and the Raleigh's grips were in the storage tube with the Schwinn forks. 
I found a wooden cigar box marked 'Schwinn' with a new old stock headset, a new front hub, and a new rear reflector, and a 1957 bike lic. plate from Union NJ.



This makes three of these now, all complete with cables and shifters. 

One box I pulled out that was taped up and marked 'Misc. Bike parts" turned out to have an old artificial Christmas tree in it. 
A box marked 'mixed junk parts' had an old Schwinn branded generator light set and five boxes of very old Christmas bulbs and an Easter basket full of New Departure model A hubs. 




Several complete working hubs just like this one, and two old cookie tins full of Model A parts. .


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## dirtman (Apr 9, 2021)

Since I started posting pics here, I'll keep posting things I run across digging through that one lot of parts.
I got into the back shed a bit today, besides a bunch of Schwinn Adult trike parts, I found these:




Early 8 hole crankset, not much chrome left but presentable.






More New Departure Model A hubs



Prewar cranks, the first three have no pin. Any idea what these fit?
The one with the cones attached is 28tpi.



Delta generator



"Hercules B Type" 3 speed hub (Sturmey Archer)

There's a few more boxes of ND model A parts, probably enough to build 10 or more hubs. and enough internals for another dozen or so.
I also found two boxes of misc. BSA hubs and parts, plus two large milk crates full of Huret derailleurs.
I also have two more boxes of headbadges to sort through, maybe another 250 or so badges, maybe more. There was one shoe box full of just Schwinn badges.
What type of tires do wood rims take?


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## dirtman (Apr 9, 2021)

A few more pics:


Any idea what this was from?





This was in the bottom of a box full of racks, its marked 101L. I haven't seen anything that looks like a stand, or do I recall loading one back then. I wonder if I can buy just the receiver part for this? I don't suppose its very new.


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## GTs58 (Apr 9, 2021)

dirtman said:


> A few more pics:
> 
> View attachment 1388687
> Any idea what this was from?
> ...



 Looks like a Park Tool clamp. Older but probably not reeeeeal old. 









						Park Tool PRS 3.2-1 Deluxe Single Arm Repair Stand + 100-3C Clamp - Accessories
					

Buy the Park Tool PRS 3.2-1 Deluxe Single Arm Repair Stand + 100-3C Clamp online or shop all Accessories from Competitivecyclist.com.




					www.competitivecyclist.com


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## dirtman (Apr 10, 2021)

I figured the Park clamp is from the 70's or early 80's. 

Any idea about identifying some of the older rear racks? I've got about two dozen here in all, all different, all full size from what I can tell, (26" bikes). The black one I posted last is the only one that has fixed braces, the brace is one piece and riveted to the bottom.


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## GTs58 (Apr 10, 2021)

Never seen one like this, but I'm not big on bikes that are all dressed up with added sheet metal decor. Looks like the leg supports should have been attached further to the rear. Just too much unsupported sheet metal hanging out past the supports.


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## dirtman (Apr 10, 2021)

The black rack is pretty long, longer than any other's I've got. The bracket attaches with two rivets right through the bottom and the braces are bent square at the tops. There's no way to adjust them, which would make it far less universal. All the other racks have legs that swing fore and aft.  I set this atop the rear of my Typhoon here and its WAY too long for that bike extending out beyond the rear fender. I'm thinking the brace was meant to be vertical to account for someone maybe using it as a rear seat. The legs are pretty heavy duty. There's a small glass reflector in a paper envelope that was tied to it, but no writing or brand on it. 
It may be new, as in never installed, there's no paint loss around the ends of the brace and there was a $2.95 price tag stuck on the top.


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## 1motime (Apr 10, 2021)

It is a big long rack.  Nice lines though  Very streamlined


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## dirtman (Apr 10, 2021)

I've looked at hundreds of misc. pics of bikes from the 50's and early 60's and haven't seen any matches to any of the racks I've got here. 

Any idea on the one piece cranks without sprocket locator pins? There are two styles, one with the dogleg, and those with the straight arms. They're also pretty long. I seem to recall seeing a super sized front sprocket that matched those cranks too, something like 62t skip link. I forget which box it got put in, but I remember putting it in the bottom of one of the cardboard boxes back then because it wouldn't fit standing up in any of the other boxes. 
I came across about a hundred old generator lights today and a few battery style headlights and some more ND model A hubs. 

When did they stop using the ND Model A hub? All of the one's I've found appear to have been gone through and are in working order. In the last two days I've found three boxes of ND model A parts too.


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## volksboy57 (Apr 10, 2021)

Wow! What a neat bunch of parts! I love headbadges and am really curious to see what you find. Too bad I'm here in California, I'd love to help root through stuff with ya.


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## dirtman (Apr 11, 2021)

volksboy57 said:


> Wow! What a neat bunch of parts! I love headbadges and am really curious to see what you find. Too bad I'm here in California, I'd love to help root through stuff with ya.




I've only touched on a small part of all this stuff. Back when I first got it, when we removed it all from the guys basement, I took the shelving too, he had steel parts room shelves 20ft long in isles in his basement. In order to get it out of my trailer for the second load, we hurriedly put up about half of it in my basement at the house, and put the rest in tubs. Work, family, and other obligations then took precedent and it all just sat here. Some of it was disorganized when we found it, some of it we jumbled up in the name of space and speed of moving it. (If a tub was mostly cables, and there was room left, other items often got tossed in to fill the tub so we didn't have dead space in the truck or trailer). 
Now, years later I'm finally going through it all. a good bit of it is junk I suppose, nothing seems to sell here when it comes to bikes, I've listed perfectly good ridable bikes for $50 and gotten no response over months on CL or FB. I even listed a bunch of 20" bikes for free and got no takers, and every one was a ridable bike with good tires.  There were even a few Schwinn Fastbacks and Sting Rays but they got no replies other than one nasty letter from some woman asking if I'd be responsible if her son broke an arm or leg on one of my free bikes. At that point I just parted them out on eBay and junked what didn't sell in two weeks. 

To make the task of sorting this all out even worse, I bought 11 more bikes and a truck load of parts the other day for $20. A guy a few towns over had an All bicycle yard sale and pretty much it got no attention. I went there in the afternoon  and left with 
11 Schwinn, Raleigh, Robin Hood, and Dunelt bicycles, 40 complete wheels, and boxes of original saddles, handlebars, and cranksets. The guy said only four people showed up in two days, he had advertised it on CL and in the newspaper. A lot of it was junk, lots of torn apart box store bikes and kids bikes that he'll likely have to just scrap. He had over 60 ridable bikes there for $20 to $100 but got no takers at all.

The goal for me is to get the whole lot of stuff down to just what I'm interested in or bikes I can fix to ride for myself. I don't want to mess with kids bikes, no 20 or 24" stuff at all, and I don't care for road or mountain bikes much these days. I do like some of the English three speeds and that style bike, along with bikes like the Schwinn Racer, Speedster, and older Traveler. I'll slowly be weeding out the one's that don't fit me or those I just don't care to keep. 
Right now I've got half my basement full of bike parts on shelves and in storage tubs, one room upstairs is full, and my 20ft enclosed car trailer is full. At first I was just going to toss things like boxes of used cables and housings, all the used tires, and several boxes of used tubes but with tires getting so expensive, I've been using the used stuff vs. dumping the cash to buy new Chinese tires. The used cable tubs have more than once bailed me out on old bikes too.


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## dirtman (May 1, 2021)

A few more items that I found digging through all these boxes here, these were boxed up together, all bagged and tagged in a plastic shoe box buried in a larger tub full of fender braces, cables, and brake calipers.



More red band hubs



Sturmey Archer alloy flange front hub





Sachs Torpedo three speed hub and shifter


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## Billythekid (May 1, 2021)

I need a new departure model a sprocket and wouldn’t mind have info a couple complete model a rear hubs can u send me a pm with price if you’ll sell ?


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