# Looking for info on Brampton 3 speed hubs.



## WillWork4Parts (Feb 6, 2022)

I have come across more than a few of these now and am curious about how to place a date on them, learn what the different stamped designations mean, or at the very least learn what years they started and stopped being used.
















I can't find much useful information about these 3 speed Sturmey clones....and Google seems to be getting less and less helpful by the day, especially when the keyword's spelling is so close to Brompton. "Did you mean Brompton? Yes, we're gonna sell the guy a Brompton!" 

If I understand right, these were made by Hercules, somewhere near the time Raleigh bought the company??
I think the earliest Schwinn I've had with one on it is a 52(with the vertical line winged badge) and then up to a 54* Traveler(correction*checked serial number again since this bike is still together, late 52). I've got a 49 World wheelset that has a Sturmey in it and I believe I've seen a Corvette with a 55 stamped Sturmey...
Please let me know if you have any info or literature about these hubs...or any examples on bikes that can help fill in the holes in their timeline. 
Thanks in advance!


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## juvela (Feb 7, 2022)

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@dnc1


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## dnc1 (Feb 8, 2022)

Man, this is a very murky business. 
There is much written on this by the Hercules Marque Enthusiast within the V-CC. 
Pages and pages of detailed discussion,  but it is all subject to copyright I believe, it is a very detailed piece of research.
It is a fascinating read, full of industry heavyweights (Hercules,  largest cycle manufacturer in the world) trying to bypass patents (held by Sturmey Archer, owned by Raleigh) and successfully negotiating very discounted prices for the supply of SA hubs (pre WW2) for a time before producing their own hubs (post WW2).

Broadly speaking, it is believed that the Brampton  badged hubs appeared in, or around, 1950.
They were made by Hercules at first, before being made by Brampton when T.I. possibly decided to spread the manufacturing work around amongst their subsidiaries.
The last model of hub produced was actually made by S.A. but still badge-engineered as a Brampton, in the early 60's.
It is believed that 5 successive models were made by Hercules/Brampton prior to that.

The trigger/shift lever used with your examples may further narrow the date range to 1950-53 @WillWork4Parts but beyond that it is very difficult to give you exact dates. 
The round bodied trigger assembly is pre '53, the S.A. style one is post '53.

I would thoroughly recommend joining the V-CC in the UK if you want to read the full story (shameless plug).....








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Here is an image from their library showing the parts diagram for the post '53 version hub.....






Sorry I can't say more.


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## dnc1 (Feb 8, 2022)

On further reading (there are 36 pages in the article!) it would seem that the last numbers on your hub shells in your photos may correspond to years of production,  but this is by no means definite.
For example 'A-type 9' could refer to 1949.
'140 B-2' could refer to 1952.

Can you remember exactly what bikes each hub was fitted to @WillWork4Parts?
This may be significant as it is believed that Brampton 3-speed hubs may only have been offered to UK export markets,  either to manufacturers such as Schwinn in the USA,  or as optional extras on Hercules models sold in export markets.

With your permission, I would like to pass on the information and your images to the V-CC M.E. as this may contribute significantly to his research.
Some of the hub stampings would appear to be interesting in relation to some of his musings.


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## WillWork4Parts (Feb 8, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> it would seem that the last numbers on your hub shells in your photos may correspond to years of production, but this is by no means definite.
> For example 'A-type 9' could refer to 1949.
> '140 B-2' could refer to 1952.



These were almost exactly the words I was looking for...just minus that not definite part. Ha
That was where I had arrived at with year markings on my sampling of the hubs. It will take some time, but let me find the frames that some of these hubs came off of, I'll get you more defined dates. That will be my project for the day. Most were ladies' Schwinn World Traveler bikes that had either been updated (cannibalized and put back together) or were hideously repainted. The trend here seemed to be replacing any and all trigger shifters with the 90s plastic cover SA replacements. I do have the 52 men's traveler with the round chrome shifter still on it though. I have a men's Hercules hanging up that had been sloppily repainted too, it came to me with a Schwinn 3sp Stik Shift on it, but I'm thinking there may have been a metal thumb shifter in the pile of parts that came from that place. The main bike I have in question is a Schwinn Continental Clubman, as its frame serial number is not printed in Schwinn's master list....or numbers were transposed out of order?? ...but the bike falls between a similar serial number range of 1949 or 50. The hub is a type 9 and the only dating feature I have to go off of. :-/

...and yes, by all means you have my full permission to pass the info along. Just let me get you some better dates from the serial numbers of their frames...maybe some better lit pictures from the Travelers if I can get them out for air today.


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## Threespeedmafia (Feb 8, 2022)

The way I understand it, these pretty much mirror the Hercules A Type and B Type hubs.  As stated, A Type 9 would have been 1949 and B Type 3 would have been 1953.  Similarly, you had the Hercumatic and Brampton 3 speed triggers. 

By the 50s, most of the Birmingham brands had been consolidated under the BCC (owned by Tube Investments) which was the main competition to Raleigh and all of the brands they had consolidated around Nottingham.  

They already had license to produce their version of the SA three speed, and producing a Brampton version allowed them to sell their hubs and shifters to other companies or even put them on their own brands where they did not want to put a Hercules badged product.  

By the 60s, TI had merged with Raleigh, with TI being the controlling interest, and they moved most of everything to Nottingham.


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## SirMike1983 (Feb 8, 2022)

The Bramptons appear on the early and mid 1950s Schwinns. From what I have seen, Schwinn was always hunting for better deals on parts in the 1950s. This applied to the brake parts (they changed calipers and levers a couple times), and to the transmissions (Sturmey AW, Brampton, Sturmey SW, and back to Sturmey AW finally). They traditionally used Sturmey Archer three speed hubs, but apparently were willing to purchase Bramptons if it saved them money and supplemented their parts stock. Eventually they went over to Sturmey SW hubs, with all the disaster that came therewith. 

The Bramptons are on the surface an AW copy, but I have found occasional  issues converting to splined drivers so you can modify the gear ratio easier. On some of the Bramptons the conversion is fine and on others the splined driver is prone to skipping out of gear. I suppose if one had a lot of time and a caliper, the origin on the trouble hubs could be found. They seem to be well-made overall, and better made than the cheaper copies from continental Europe.

One bike that comes to mind is a really nice 1954 Traveler I owned that had a Brampton hub. The frame was the basic welded sort, but the color was really nice.


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## Threespeedmafia (Feb 8, 2022)

SirMike1983 said:


> The Bramptons appear on the early and mid 1950s Schwinns. From what I have seen, Schwinn was always hunting for better deals on parts in the 1950s. This applied to the brake parts (they changed calipers and levers a couple times), and to the transmissions (Sturmey AW, Brampton, Sturmey SW, and back to Sturmey AW finally). They traditionally used Sturmey Archer three speed hubs, but apparently were willing to purchase Bramptons if it saved them money and supplemented their parts stock. Eventually they went over to Sturmey SW hubs, with all the disaster that came therewith.
> 
> The Bramptons are on the surface an AW copy, but I have found occasional  issues converting to splined drivers so you can modify the gear ratio easier. On some of the Bramptons the conversion is fine and on others the splined driver is prone to skipping out of gear. I suppose if one had a lot of time and a caliper, the origin on the trouble hubs could be found. They seem to be well-made overall, and better made than the cheaper copies from continental Europe.
> 
> ...



I don't have any experience taking a Brampton hub apart, but I have taken apart two of the Hercules hubs, both B Type, and 1 functions just like my SA AW hubs and one, will not. OK, it does function, but it is certainly not as smooth as my SAs.  Nothing appears rough or out of spec, but it just doesn't function as smooth.  
Beautiful Schwinn Traveler by the way.


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## WillWork4Parts (Feb 8, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> On further reading (there are 36 pages in the article!) it would seem that the last numbers on your hub shells in your photos may correspond to years of production,  but this is by no means definite.
> For example 'A-type 9' could refer to 1949.
> '140 B-2' could refer to 1952.
> 
> ...



Matched the hubs back up to their frames by the paint chips left on the no-turn washers...since I had swapped one after I found the hub malfunctioning and the rim had significant curb rash that ruined any hope for braking, ruptured cord and leaking tube put final nail in coffin for that wheel. Both of those were No.140B-2 hubs anyways. 







Bike had awful white paint over original Opalescent Red and overspray on parts. Shifter and cable had been replaced with late model SA, bike was parted out. 


















Bike is unmolested except for front tube and rear wheel/tire. Hub was swapped with same No.140B-2 Brampton, still has shifter or cable issues intermittently that I need to look at. 














Bike had some updates in the late 60s including SA shifter and cable. This one has sentimental value, considering we picked it up when I was about 10. When I first saw it I fell in love with the World decals...and well, here I am with an eye for them still. This bike was the neighborhood spare, if one of my friends or I got a flat, you would take the ride of shame on this Very dependable girls bike...it was deliberately left on the carport for this reason, nobody wanted to be caught dead on it...until the day it and my Schwinn Sting(with a flat) got stolen. We got the bikes back within a week or 2. I actually saw this one in someone's back yard as I was walking to school and repo-ed it! Lol In 2005 or so we moved and sold almost all of our collection. A couple of years ago I bought this one back from the guy that still lived in the neighborhood, it had stayed in his garage all that time. Sorry...rambling. Ha

And then we have the Sturmey Archer AW hubs as bookends to the Bramptons, 49 and 54









This bike had the same treatment as the first one listed here, bright yellow paint over original Opalescent Green. Remnants of World decal under seat tube, front wheel was shot, brakes bent, and some other issues I can't remember that lead to it being parted out. 














Nearly every part on this bike had been scuffed from where someone didn't know how to clean it and must have used #0 steel wool. Intentions were good but decals and chrome were ruined and the brakes, fenders, cable, seat, and shifter were updated in the 60s. Subsequently parted out, wheelset and New World badge were moved to my ragged out 46/7 Continental Clubman as better placeholders. 
Note, this is the only dated Sturmey hub I have seen with patent numbers stamped like this.


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## WillWork4Parts (Feb 8, 2022)

The hub with no spokes in it came in an eBay lot from the US too I believe.


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## dnc1 (Feb 10, 2022)

WillWork4Parts said:


> Matched the hubs back up to their frames by the paint chips left on the no-turn washers...since I had swapped one after I found the hub malfunctioning and the rim had significant curb rash that ruined any hope for braking, ruptured cord and leaking tube put final nail in coffin for that wheel. Both of those were No.140B-2 hubs anyways.
> View attachment 1566844
> 
> View attachment 1566845
> ...



Thanks for collating the info.
I will pass it on.


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## Oilit (Feb 13, 2022)

WillWork4Parts said:


> I have come across more than a few of these now and am curious about how to place a date on them, learn what the different stamped designations mean, or at the very least learn what years they started and stopped being used.View attachment 1565583
> 
> View attachment 1565584
> 
> ...



Most of the Brampton hubs I've seen are marked "No. 140B-_X_", with the "_X_" being 2, 3 or 4, from bikes made in the early '50's. That second one you've pictured is the first I've seen stamped "A Type 9" which is the same mark found on Hercules hubs from 1949. I'd say that proves that Brampton hubs were made by Hercules, or vice versa, or maybe I should say both were made by TI, since they owned both companies.


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## dnc1 (Feb 21, 2022)

Oilit said:


> Most of the Brampton hubs I've seen are marked "No. 140B-_X_", with the "_X_" being 2, 3 or 4, from bikes made in the early '50's. That second one you've pictured is the first I've seen stamped "A Type 9" which is the same mark found on Hercules hubs from 1949. I'd say that proves that Brampton hubs were made by Hercules, or vice versa, or maybe I should say both were made by TI, since they owned both companies.



That 'A Type 9' hub is the one that stood out for me too, it's not recorded in the 36 pages of research I mentioned previously. 
As I said it's a very murky business with Brampton, Hercules, TI, Sturmey Archer and Raleigh all involved.


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