# Help date this Superior



## Phattiremike (Jul 29, 2020)

This may be coming my way, its a Schwinn Superior, serial # B176.  I didn't find much on Schwinn Superior on the CABE, the chainring is really cool.

-mike


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## lgrinnings (Jul 29, 2020)

Looks like it could be 1938. 1938-39 is my guess, but I'm no expert.


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## lgrinnings (Jul 29, 2020)

I have a similarly aged Superior although my serial is slightly more recent (B2049). I've seen a resource that places B serials in 1939, but the https://www.bicyclechronicles.com/serials data shows the following: 

*W60510 - B19181 = 1938

B22207 - D37747 = 1939*


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## rennfaron (Jul 29, 2020)

Nice one! 
If it was born a tourist model, it is missing the chain guard and front and rear fenders. The AS&CO chain ring is the superior style correct chain ring. The bars and grips are wrong. Questionable stem for that time period but could be correct.


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## cyclingday (Jul 29, 2020)

Yeah, that’s cool!
It looks to be a 1939 model.
It all looks pretty catalog correct to me.
There were quite a few options available for those bikes, and that stem was one of them.
Those pedals are the super righteous and elusive AS lightweight model, that were a Paramount/Superior exclusive.
Way cool, that those are still hanging in there.
Fenders and a chainguard, and your done!


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## rennfaron (Jul 29, 2020)

cyclingday said:


> Yeah, that’s cool!
> It looks to be a 1939 model.
> It all looks pretty catalog correct to me.
> There were quite a few options available for those bikes, and that stem was one of them.
> ...



Marty - this looks catalog correct to you...? Notice the flare out of the bars... The ones of that period on these bikes were the gull wing style and the grips were parallel as they swept back. Also, the grip style is one that started in the early 60s. Looks like the bars and grips were pulled off of something else.


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## GTs58 (Jul 29, 2020)

It's a 39. Hand stamped SN, I believe these are not included in DJ's serial number research on the bicycle chronicles.  

Here's Stephan's 39.  s/n B1739 






						Photobucket
					






					s1256.photobucket.com


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## rennfaron (Jul 29, 2020)

I am surprised photobucket is still a thing. I tried to view it earlier and it was all blurry. Now it works. A lot of nice photos in there. Looks like stem is correct @Phattiremike


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## GTs58 (Jul 29, 2020)

Stephan uploaded those pictures 10 years ago when Photobucket was *thee* place. lol


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## rennfaron (Jul 29, 2020)

Photobucket now looks like *THEE PLACE* to go to get all your information stolen. You are playing the operation game with all those ads trying to find where to click on an image. One wrong click and who knows where the ad takes you.


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## cyclingday (Jul 29, 2020)

rennfaron said:


> Marty - this looks catalog correct to you...? Notice the flare out of the bars... The ones of that period on these bikes were the gull wing style and the grips were parallel as they swept back. Also, the grip style is one that started in the early 60s. Looks like the bars and grips were pulled off of something else.
> View attachment 1238029View attachment 1238097



Agreed, bars and grips are a late addition.
Key word, “pretty” catalog correct.
I was mainly referring to the stem, being an original option for those bikes.


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## Phattiremike (Jul 30, 2020)

Thanks guys, I found a catalog page for the Superior, the bike shown for a 1939 had fenders, chainguard and a rear what looks like a brake?  Were there other versions?  Photo bucket shows the same so I guess this bike is missing those parts and the bars and stems been changed.
Thank you -mike


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## cyclingday (Jul 30, 2020)

There were many options.
Hubs
Coaster brakes
Rim type Webb Ten Spot brakes
Dural expander brakes
Stems
Handlebars
Rims
Cranks
Paint colors
Etc.
You could special order these bikes any way that you wanted.
The catalog picture was just a reference.
The little fender tabs and the geometry of the frame indicate that this bike is a Sports Tourist model.
So, it would’ve had color matched fenders and chainguard.


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## 1motime (Jul 30, 2020)

cyclingday said:


> There were many options.
> Hubs
> Coaster brake
> Rim type Webb Ten Spot brakes
> ...



Stainless fenders also as well as stainless rims


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## cyclingday (Jul 30, 2020)

Typically, the stainless fenders came on the Paramount, and the painted fenders came on the Superior, but you could special order any of the available options.


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## 1motime (Jul 30, 2020)

It was a platform bike.  Same as a New world to some degree.  Build it up to Paramount specs.  I wonder what the price differences would be.  No reason to order a Paramount and build down.  What was the base price of each model's frame?  Would all options be the same price for all models?   Did bike prices reflect parts that were removed for different parts?  Or did pricing depend on the dealer?


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## Phattiremike (Jul 30, 2020)

As this one sits what’s it worth, I’d like to make an offer.
-mike


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## rennfaron (Jul 30, 2020)

Phattiremike said:


> As this one sits what’s it worth, I’d like to make an offer.
> -mike



You'll most likely be looking for a long while to find the chain guard and fenders if that is the intent. Finding stainless fenders will be easier than painted, as I almost never see them pop up. The stainless ones do pop up from time to time. You can also find them on the later 40s continentals and I think they are essentially the same as found on this year Superior. Bars and grips will be easy to find.

Just based on ebay sales for these items:
Grips = $50-60
Bars = $50
Chain guard = $60
Stainless fenders = $100-125 (I saw a set pop up about a year or so ago for I think around $100).

Personally $400 might be an ok price on it knowing you could put in $400 and end up with a $900-1000 bike, but other guys may know more on end price on these (I like them but don't buy them). I do know that it has been said before that the superiors are far more rare than the paramounts that do seem to pop up ever now and then. Paramounts of the same era or slightly younger seem to go for around $1000-1500. Or at least did pre-COVID. Prices are crazy now.


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## ccdc.1 (Jul 30, 2020)

FWIW, this would be the second earliest Superior I have seen in over a decade, with only B171 being older. Nice find, even if it is incomplete. The pedals are correct, and those early AS versions can be harder to find than the fenders or chain guard.


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## detroitbike (Jul 30, 2020)

The last few Tourist Paramounts I have bought in the last year were 1200-2500 .
 Superiors ARE rarer in my estimation as I have found 1 for every 5 of the WW2 paramounts.
  Value on this bike is the pedals !
 As she sits I agree with 4-500 Max.

 Fenders are same style on  Conti's,  Paramounts, Superiors and T & C tandems altough braces may be of 
different lengths do to mounting tabs being closer to the axle.


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## cyclingday (Jul 30, 2020)

The “prewar” Paramount/Superior fenders are unique to these models.
The overall stamping was similar to the postwar Continentals, but they were unique in their brace location and mounting configuration.
The front fender was a two piece arrangement in having the tip or point of the fender riveted on to the mounting plate that emerged from the bottom of the fender.
The rear fender didn’t have the typical tongue attachment down at the chainstay as most fenders of the type did.
Instead, it had stamped indents to wrap around the chainstay with just a simple hole, for the mounting bolt.
The rear fender also only had one brace instead of two, so a postwar fender will have several extra holes where the seat stay bridge hole goes, and where the extra brace was removed.
The rear fenders were also much shorter than the postwar type.
Postwar fenders can be modified to make an acceptable replacement, but it definitely helps to have an original set of fenders to make copies from.
My prewar Sports Tourist Paramount was found without its original fenders, as most are.
So in my quest to find a set of original
“ prewar” stainless fenders, I found two sets of the painted steel Superior fenders, one of which I used as a pattern to make a set of stainless fenders out of postwar Continentals.
My search for an original set of prewar Paramount fenders, consisted of asking everyone I thought might be of help, but that turned out to be fairly fruitless until just recently, when a bike was found in a house renovation in Minnesota.
So, in my experience, the prewar Superior parts were way easier to find than the equivalent Paramount parts were.
Not that either are easy or plentiful, but in 3 years of looking, I was two for one on the fenders, Superior vs Paramount.
Either prewar 38/39 Sports Tourist models, are extremely rare, and so are their original parts.
None of us are getting any younger, so when one of these bikes or parts becomes available, do what ever you have to do to get it, if that’s what floats your boat.
But, just to reiterate, Postwar Continental fenders are not the same as Prewar Paramount/Superior fenders.
They are similar but different, in the same way that a set of Postwar B6 fenders could be used on a 1941 Prewar B6 model, but the modification would be readily apparent to anybody that was in the know.
Just my two cents on the subject, for what it’s worth.


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## rennfaron (Jul 30, 2020)

Real good info in that one @cyclingday (your $.02 are worth a lot) coming from someone that has gone down that road. That is interesting on your experience with finding superior fenders easier than paramount. What did you stick the fenders you found on?

Totally agree on getting these bikes when you can. You sometimes think you will get the next one and there is no next one...


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## Phattiremike (Jul 31, 2020)

Thanks guys for the information, I really dig that chain ring too, early serial #,  I will put in an offer on the bike!


cyclingday said:


> The “prewar” Paramount/Superior fenders are unique to these models.
> The overall stamping was similar to the postwar Continentals, but they were unique in their brace location and mounting configuration.
> The front fender was a two piece arrangement in having the tip or point of the fender riveted on to the mounting plate that emerged from the bottom of the fender.
> The rear fender didn’t have the typical tongue attachment down at the chainstay as most fenders of the type did.
> ...




-mike


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## Phattiremike (Jul 31, 2020)

Thanks everyone for the information/education, much appreciated! 

 Not sure he will let it go but I will put in an offer on the bike. Early serial # that''s hand stamped plus I really like that chain ring, decal on the down tube what does that say and would this have been a 3 speed?

-mike


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## GTs58 (Jul 31, 2020)

The down tube decal should be _*Schwinn Superior*_.


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## Miq (Jul 31, 2020)

1939 catalog showing the mudguards and handlebars:






Those little tabs on the frame for mounting the guards are funky!


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## Phattiremike (Aug 1, 2020)

Miq said:


> 1939 catalog showing the mudguards and handlebars:
> 
> View attachment 1239350
> 
> Those little tabs on the frame for mounting the guards are funky!



This is awesome thanks for sharing, great reference.  This was grandpas bike, but I will ask to see if he will sell.  I was wondering about those tabs/holes on the front fork were about.

-mike


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## 1motime (Aug 1, 2020)

$1 for the guard???  $2 for either style bars?????   Retail??????   Made in USA.


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## Oilit (Aug 2, 2020)

1motime said:


> $1 for the guard???  $2 for either style bars?????   Retail??????   Made in USA.



The Federal minimum wage in 1939 was $0.30 an hour.


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