# Schwinn Phantom wheel Question



## JOHN DANGER (Feb 4, 2018)

I picked up a beat up Red Phantom a while back which had a front brake drum but was missing all the other brake parts and after chasing front drum brake parts I realized the parts to complete it will be more than the cost of the whole rest of the bike , so I decided to just fit a non drum front wheel and be done with it. I picked up a schwinn script knurled S2 for 5 bucks at a swapmeet but when I got it home I discovered that the stock rims were not knurled or S2s but had a more curved edge on the rims. there is almost no doubt that the rims are original to the bike so I guess my question is what front wheel should go on this thing was this an earlier Phantom rim , I have heard some early S2s were polished in plating which hid the knurling but I think these are just something else what gives?  

Should I just lace my S2 script hub into the old matching rim?


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## island schwinn (Feb 4, 2018)

could be a Lobdell hoop.used from prewar up to about 47 on schwinn.


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## GTs58 (Feb 4, 2018)

Interesting. Is the front brake hub marked Schwinn? What's the serial number, the bike may be earlier than a Phantom. And are the rims Tubular?


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## barneyguey (Feb 4, 2018)

I agree on it maybe being a Lobdell because of the shape it is. Also, some of the first S2 rims had no knurling, I've seen it especially on the painted rims. I wonder if the wheels were changed at one time and that's why the rest of the brake stuff isn't there?


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## barneyguey (Feb 4, 2018)

Are you sure it's a phantom, or did someone put chrome fenders on it?


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## GTs58 (Feb 4, 2018)

barnyguey said:


> Are you sure it's a phantom, or did someone put chrome fenders on it?




Looks like someone added the nice chrome fenders and Phantom seat when it was restroyed. I'm betting the frame is older than the Phantoms and the wheels are OE.


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## barneyguey (Feb 4, 2018)

GTs58 said:


> Looks like someone added the nice chrome fenders and Phantom seat when it was restroyed. I'm betting the frame is older than the Phantoms and the wheels are OE.



HA! HA! HA!   I never heard restroyed  before! That's a pretty good description!  Barry


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## JOHN DANGER (Feb 4, 2018)

thanks for the replies, I should have mentioned the original front fender was missing and seat was just the pan , reissue fenders and seat I added until I can find some crusty replacements , under the green spray paint is a real red Phantom made on 2/7/1951 the rear coaster brake is a New Departure laced into the same rim as the front and yes the drum is Schwinn script marked


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## barneyguey (Feb 4, 2018)

It can't be very early with the serial number there! I guess that answers that questions. LOL


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## GTs58 (Feb 4, 2018)

JOHN DANGER said:


> thanks for the replies, I should have mentioned the original front fender was missing and seat was just the pan , reissue fenders and seat I added until I can find some crusty replacements , under the green spray paint is a real red Phantom made on 2/7/1951 the rear coaster brake is a New Departure laced into the same rim as the front and yes the drum is Schwinn script marked QUOTE]
> ​





Well that info opens up a whole new book. First thing is the serial number is on the drop out so it's not a 51 model since those numbers were under the crank. With that in mind, the factory issued rims would have been the tubular S-2's. I was just mentioning yesterday that there were errors on "all" of the serial number lists and I think your SN is in one of those error zones. Possibly the person that typed or transferred the list made a human error. *Notice the first line of SN's.* If that is in fact an error your Phantom's serial number was stamped at the beginning of 1953. I have a 53 Phantom and the rims are double knurled center stamped tubular S2's. New Departure rear hub and Schwinn script front hub.   
*1953
Date ------------- Serial #`s From -------------------- To 
01/12 to 01/14 ------- H60001 ----------------- H16956 
01/14 to 01/16 ------- H16957 ----------------- H26563 
01/16 to 01/19 ------- H26564 ----------------- H37436 
01/19 ------------------ H37437 ----------------- H37753 
01/28 to 01/29 ------- H37754 ----------------- H42355 
01/29 ------------------ H42356 ----------------- H44000*​


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## JOHN DANGER (Feb 4, 2018)

GTs58 said:


> Well that info opens up a whole new book. First thing is the serial number is on the drop out so it's not a 51 model since those numbers were under the crank. With that in mind, the factory issued rims would have been the tubular S-2's. I was just mentioning yesterday that there were errors on "all" of the serial number lists and I think your SN is in one of those error zones. Possibly the person that typed or transferred the list made a human error. *Notice the first line of SN's.* If that is in fact an error your Phantom's serial number was stamped at the beginning of 1953. I have a 53 Phantom and the rims are double knurled center stamped tubular S2's. New Departure rear hub and Schwinn script front hub.
> *1953
> Date ------------- Serial #`s From -------------------- To
> 01/12 to 01/14 ------- H60001 ----------------- H16956
> ...



I see what you mean


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## Jeff54 (Feb 5, 2018)

U odd-a get some goof off and take that spit green and gold off there for 1100% appearance improvement. track down who's rims they are as, they'd be awfully hard to find, potentially sell them for enough to get a nice set of 50's S-2's Don't know for sure but, if Schwinn then, they were formed from a tube,( 'Schwinn tubular' hint) 1946 and if Lobdell prewar-46 then not. Either way, hard to find, because of the brake, and they do look like Lobdell's  those are probably off of an prewar  Autocycle  

This should help get u started: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1941-schwinn-lobdell-wheel-set.119410/


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## JOHN DANGER (Feb 5, 2018)

Jeff54 said:


> U odd-a get some goof off and take that spit green and gold off there for 1100% appearance improvement. track down who's rims they are as, they'd be awfully hard to find, potentially sell them for enough to get a nice set of 50's S-2's Don't know for sure but, if Schwinn then, they were formed from a tube,( 'Schwinn tubular' hint) 1946 and if Lobdell prewar-46 then not. Either way, hard to find, because of the brake, and they do look like Lobdell's  those are probably off of an prewar  Autocycle
> 
> This should help get u started: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1941-schwinn-lobdell-wheel-set.119410/




Jeff, you are absolutely right, that was always the plan for this bike, get it down to see what the original paint looks like , not a restoration project the repro seat and fenders were picked up while I was looking for a crusty front fender and light , the plating on this thing is really poor and looks like it was never very good, I didn't consider the wheel set to be so much older than the bike as the rear wheel sprocket is not a skip tooth and front hub is schwinn script so I figured it was original to the bike as I have seen so many Phantoms fitted with the front drum, but this would indeed explain the lack of other braking parts up front , I guess this was a 53 that had the wheels switched out at some point, I will keep the wheel set together and find a rear S2 now that I have a front and start looking for clues on the rear hub , and start gently removing paint on the rest of the bike


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## JOHN DANGER (Feb 5, 2018)

I should also explain the reason I picked up this bike was that I never was a fan of the Phantom and after 30 years of messing around with old bikes I never owned one , I bought older stuff and Columbias or other brands, I have a great original paint DX and have had other Schwinns but never a Phantom, and when ever I rode an old bike everyone would ask me if it was a Schwinn Phantom and I would always say no, and when they came to the shop and saw all the bikes they would ask if I had a Schwinn Phantom, and I never did, so a few months ago a buddy in Texas found this thing at a barn sale and asked if I wanted it, it was so cheep I had to say yes, and it was so ugly I thought it would be funny to keep it just like this so when someone asked if I had a Phantom I could show them this. When it got home and I gave it a once over, I decided it was a pretty cool bike and that it deserves to be cleaned up a little bit but I promised myself I wasn't going to go overboard and do a restoration on it and spend 2 grand on phantom parts and plating to put together a bike that might be worth a thousand, but maybe a rustoration is in order, or at least collecting some missing parts and hosing it off.


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## rickyd (Feb 5, 2018)

Recently bought a 52 B6 with similar setup s2 rear, lobdell drum brake front. Wondered then if front rim had been replaced this make me wonder if some got out of the factory that way.


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## Jeff54 (Feb 6, 2018)

rickyd said:


> Recently bought a 52 B6 with similar setup s2 rear, lobdell drum brake front. Wondered then if front rim had been replaced this make me wonder if some got out of the factory that way.



In 47 maybe but by 52, I doubt it.


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## Schwinn Addiction 96 (Feb 11, 2018)

My 46 Wz507 had flat non knurl S-2 stamped rims, my 51 phantom was double knurled.S-2 centered stamped.


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