# Define Toc



## fat tire trader (Feb 12, 2016)

Hello,
Can we, as a group agree upon a time period for what we call TOC. I just saw a saddle in the for sale section described as TOC that is from the teens.

I'd like to see something like this

1890s = 1890-1899
TOC = 1900-1912
Teens = 1913-1919
Twenties = 1920-1929

Thanks,
Chris


----------



## bricycle (Feb 12, 2016)

In my mind (what a place to be)....
TOC pre 1905
tweens 1905-1912
teens 1913-1919
twenties 1920-1929


----------



## vincev (Feb 12, 2016)

What century??lol 2000-2010?


----------



## MrColumbia (Feb 12, 2016)

TOC for an antique bicycle is January 1st 1900 plain and simple. The spread is arbitrary so I say give or take 4 years. Possibly 5. We all know what everyone means. 
Every other decade is specific and self explanatory and needs no definition.


----------



## THE STIG (Feb 12, 2016)

YOU NEED TO DISCUSS WITH THE TOC WIZARD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Main Problem w The Cabe!!!!


----------



## scrubbinrims (Feb 12, 2016)

When was the motorbike/motobike era ushered in with a tank emulating motorcycles of the period?
I consider TOC to end at that point with a shift in style versus by a year cutoff in itself.
Chris


----------



## redline1968 (Feb 12, 2016)

It's 1900 to 10ish all the dealers I know use as a approximation


----------



## ivrjhnsn (Feb 12, 2016)

I always thought it meant pre 1900 ... Or now even 1990's as we are in a new century?


----------



## catfish (Feb 12, 2016)

As long as we agree the 30s are from 00:01 am Jan 1st 1930 to 11:59 pm Dec 31st 1939.


----------



## bricycle (Feb 12, 2016)

scrubbinrims said:


> When was the motorbike/motobike era ushered in with a tank emulating motorcycles of the period?
> I consider TOC to end at that point with a shift in style versus by a year cutoff in itself.
> Chris




1914


----------



## fat tire trader (Feb 13, 2016)

I like the idea of the period change to be when styles changed, even though this does not apply to racing and some other types of bikes. Since the motorbikes were first advertised around 1914, which is so close to 1913, can we agree to define TOC as 1900-1912? I don't like seeing the TOC term used to describe bikes and parts from the teens and calling the period 1900s is too inclusive of the whole century.


----------



## filmonger (Feb 13, 2016)

I agree with Fat Tire & redline.....But those slightly inclined for generalisation - I can see why they would use the term. Now - the big question is why does such a broad brush stroke matter? Those in the know - obviously know...Pedantic - possibly? Not a big fan of labels myself.....though, they are needed.


----------



## Wheeled Relics (Feb 15, 2016)

Is this an accurate timeline?

Velo
Bone shaker
Ordinary
Safety transition
HTS
Diamond & pneumatic tire transition
TOC
Teen's
Moto's
Balloon tire transition
Cruiser's


----------



## bricycle (Feb 15, 2016)

end TOC at 1908-9 when block chains and rat traps basically go away??? 1912 is too late to be called TOC in my opinion. My2cents


----------



## bricycle (Feb 15, 2016)

I'm sure some will think TOC should be pre internal hub brake.....


----------



## MrColumbia (Feb 16, 2016)

bricycle said:


> end TOC at 1908-9 when block chains and rat traps basically go away??? 1912 is too late to be called TOC in my opinion. My2cents





How about shaft drives? They started pre-1900 and lasted until the early 20's.


----------



## bombollis (Feb 16, 2016)

TOC in my mind = 1900-1912


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## squeedals (Feb 16, 2016)

I'd say TOC should encompass 1899 to 1901, period as that is when the "century turns". Pre 1899 bikes should be identified by the year or 1800's and post 1901 as 1900's. Teen bikes are well......teen bikes. The term TOC of course when selling or buying a bike is subjective and the buyer/seller will of course list/look at the specific date. Like ANY antique or collectible, the price is also subject to what someone is willing to pay. Condition, rarity, desirability all play a roll in pricing. 

Don


----------



## squeedals (Feb 16, 2016)

..........


----------



## bricycle (Feb 16, 2016)

MrColumbia said:


> How about shaft drives? They started pre-1900 and lasted until the early 20's.




another good point


----------



## bricycle (Feb 16, 2016)

maybe there should be no monikers. Labels are just an individuals interpretation anyway.


----------



## bikejunk (Feb 17, 2016)

How about 1892-1897 but not 1898 0r 1899 then onto 1900  .... TOC works for me heck it got me to click onto this topic


----------



## fordsnake (Feb 17, 2016)

I think Chris has made a valid suggestion…we’re at a point where the interest in Antique bicycles has grown exponentially. 10 years ago, there’s wasn’t a big interest in TOC’s, I think “redline1968” was one of the few collectors who had a nice stable of both TOC’s & Classic bicycles?

So back to Chris’s idea; why not review everything in 'decades' - every ten years? If you reflect back in time, almost everything is remembered by certain decades; for example, _the sixties_ are memories of the counterculture, flower power, civil rights and protests.

_My 2 cents: _
Gay Nineties = c. 1890-1899
Turn Of the Century = c. 1900-1912
Teens = c. 1913-1919
Twenties = c. 1920-1929
Thirties = c. 1930-1939
Forties= c. 1940-1949
Fifties= c. 1950-1959
Sixties = c. 1960-1969
Seventies = c. 1970-1979
Etc.

May I also suggest, the Wheelmen be invited to this discussion…they may already have a definition?


----------



## fordmike65 (Feb 18, 2016)

Looks like this CL seller has "TOC" all figured out.
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/bik/5441478578.html

TURN OF THE CENTURY BICYCLES. This model built from teens to mid 30's in early 20th century. World War I to depression era bike.


----------



## bricycle (Feb 18, 2016)

"TOC" (bicycle) adj,; a really old looking cycle with wood wheels, perforated pedals which should be offered to bricycle first before the general public.


----------



## Brian R. (Mar 2, 2018)

I was going to start a new thread on this topic and found this old one. Am I raising the dead here? ...I've been interpreting the term toc widely, from the start of the boom around 1896 'till the teens. The way I see it bounced around here and on Ebay I think others use a wide interpretation too. We often see this term used when buying or selling parts, so if parts like pedals, seat posts, seats, stems, bars, and wood rims didn't change much over these 15 or so years, then it makes sense to agree on a wide interpretation, right? In the teens, besides fenders becoming standard, there was a shift to rubber block pedals, large spring saddles, "Motorbike" frames, etc. so it makes sense to end the toc designation around 1910 or so (imo), doesn't it?


----------



## dnc1 (Mar 2, 2018)

Over on this side of the pond we have similar quandaries, re. labels. 
For example, this page, "Antique Bicycles Pre-1933" would be "Veteran Cycles Pre-1929" over here. The 1929 date is when Chrome superceded Nickel as a plating material.
I think we're all in pretty much the same ballpark here re. TOC, and someone will always correct you (usually politely, lol) if you get things wrong. 
Dating by design features can be difficult as someone can always point out an exception to the rule; and there almost always is an exception, ain't nothing new when it comes to bicycles!
"Turn of the Century" also sounds very evocative, a lovely turn of phrase conjuring up so much more than mere numbers ever can.


----------



## IngoMike (Mar 3, 2018)

I would hate to see "TOC" abused and end up as the next "Vintage" or "Antique", both of which are helplessly misrepresented on a regular basis.


----------



## gben (Mar 4, 2018)

A lot of people make good points, but most are missing a good points. 

Of course TOC means the era should be CENTERED around 1900, not after or before it.   And since it is the center it would be silly to include 1901 bikes as TOC and not those from 1899 for instance. 

 Another good point is the styling changes. If we center 20 years on 1900, then we have 1890 to 1910, or we could stretch it to when the "motorcycle" bikes come in and go 1888 to 1912. the the motorcycle bikes go from 1913 to 1933 and after that the fat-tires come up. Before 1888 call them antique or victorian or something. 

 And of course TOC would be for safety bicycles. 

  The TOC bikes were lean, mean fighting machines that put function before styling. The motorcycle frame bikes and the later fat-tire bikes sacrificed performance for marketing strategies, which is why I am not interested in the "motorbikes" or fat-tire things, bicycles did not get good again after TOC until the "racing" style lightweights came out in the 50s and 60s.


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi (Mar 4, 2018)

TOC bicycles were the NASCAR racing machines of the era. ‍


----------



## dubsey55 (Mar 4, 2018)

Words or phrases, like "TOC", pre-war, lightweight, track bike, cruiser, etc, etc.  Are generally  used when exact year , or possibly even maker of machine in question is unknown!  That's OK,  but,  Personally prefer , " unrestored", original paint, one family owner, or even rusty, is good, tho, for sale is the best!  I will look at anything even remotely  old with those descriptive words!  Because, to get the good stuff ya gotta Look!. And look, and look,,,,,,,,,,,


----------

