# To established CABE Members from a "concerned" CABE Member



## Gary Mc (Aug 24, 2013)

The recent & ongoing thread “FS Lobdell Horizontal Springs men's seat” prompted me to write this.  It is just the latest in an ongoing trend I see on the “Sell Trade” forum, where it is just ugly.  I don’t know why but when a seller doesn’t conform to the rules it is invariably going to end up in a 7-8 page thread of just pure UGLY, no other way to say it.  I refused to post on that thread and here are my thoughts on why and things we need to keep in mind.

This thread had it all:


A seller who refuses to follow / thinks he is above the rules
A seller who chose to go ugly
Established CABE members who view themselves as the CABE police
Established CABE members who got into pissing matches airing their own dirty laundry
Established CABE members going at each other way over the line
Established CABE members “attempting” humor keeping an ugly thread alive
Established CABE members with some well said posts all in all but in the end just keeping an UGLY thread going

This was just the latest in a trend I’ve been seeing on these threads, if it were the first, second, third, etc. (you get the idea) I’d keep this to myself.

*Guys & Girls, we need to keep in mind we are LUCKY.  Scott provides one of the best forums around we all use free of charge.  He has very few rules and has been very democratic in setting those rules he has chosen to add usually at our urging.  We pay NO FEES for the CABE or to buy & sell on the CABE.  When he weighed in I thought the thread would die but no we established CABE members kept it going.
*
We have had newbies come & go in a hurry due to threads like this.  I see way too many threads turning negative even not in the sell trade forum and it seems to me it is getting worse.  I know of many people who love antique bikes who will not come on the CABE due to the negativity they see at times.  They view US as negative, unfortunately they come on the site & see a few posts like this and are turned off to US.  There are RRBers who love antique bikes but WE turned them off rather than help educate them about the bikes they too love.

Maybe I am different, maybe I have a take most here don’t agree with, but I see the CABE as a place WE, particularly the 50 or so of US who are always on & posting need to:


Help each other out and help newbies to the site out
Help educate each other & newbies
Use this as a place to showcase our pride & joy bicycles and bike memorabilia including builds & restorations or original finds
Bring out items people have never seen that may be 50 to 150 years old
Showcase the rides, events, shows, & swaps taking place
Bring new people who are interested in old bikes into the hobby whether their interest lies in rides, show, restorations, educating themselves, etc.
And yes Buy & sell
Etc, you get the point

*We do all these things well most of the time but there are some things we don’t do so well in my eyes, these are my opinions.*


View ourselves as the CABE police, we members are NOT, there are moderators to do this.  We do need to gently remind sellers they need price & location.  If they do not conform, turn it over to a moderator, end of story.  Let it drop.  It’s up to the moderators to end that sell trade thread, not members.  This can keep these unending threads to a single page, not 7 or more pages of UGLY which invariably seems to happen.
Follow the “Sell-Trade” rules OURSELVES which means keep Items 7-9 in mind.  They are:
7- No hijacking items for sale. Make your own post.
8- Keep negative comments to yourself as far as the item goes. 
9- Watch your language. This a G rated site.

It is unbelievable to me we blast someone for not following rules 2-3 in particular (2-Prices required. The majority has spoken. We want to see prices of items. You know what you want for a given item. Tell us, we want to know as well.; 3-Location required. We want to know where the item is. This is pretty easy. You can put your location in your profile under settings.) and then I see people break rules 7-9.  It then becomes a case of who is NOT following the rules?​
Follow Rule 9- Watch your language. This a G rated site. – Guys keep in mind we have children who are members and non-member children coming on the site who love old bikes so keep the language G rated.
Again, Follow Rule 9- This a G rated site. – Scott asked nicely in ballontyre’s thread “babes and bicycles” thread to not put nudity on the site.  Let’s please comply with this.  Again, guys keep in mind we have children who are members and non-member children who love old bikes coming on the site so keep the content G rated or at least PG.
USE THE PM FEATURE - Quit airing so much dirty laundry, there are people hear who obviously don't like each other.  Use the PM feature if you are unhappy with each other.  Many of us do NOT want to see your grievances with each other, they are obvious, we get it, but keep it between the two of you, not putting it out there for all to see.

*Again we have a great site provided free of charge by Scott so we are a lucky group but there are some things we established members can do better.  I did not want to write this but felt compelled due to a trend I am seeing that is in my eyes ruining a great site we are lucky to have. I am NOT the CABE police either but as I feel an established member, I am concerned. Feel free to blast away at me, I have a thick skin.  I probably will not reply back as I’ve now had my say but needed to get this off my chest and not in someone else’s thread.  Love all my fellow CABE members but feel we need to lower the negativity level I am seeing lately.
*


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## josehuerta (Aug 24, 2013)

Amen...........


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## Greg M (Aug 24, 2013)

I couldn't agree more.  Thanks for putting into words what I'm sure many of us are feeling.


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## Iverider (Aug 24, 2013)

I would love to see more of this by CABE members!



Help each other out and help newbies to the site out
Help educate each other & newbies
*Use  this as a place to showcase our pride & joy bicycles and bike  memorabilia including builds & restorations or original finds*
*Bring out items people have never seen that may be 50 to 150 years old*
*Showcase the rides, events, shows, & swaps taking place*
Bring  new people who are interested in old bikes into the hobby whether their  interest lies in rides, show, restorations, educating themselves, etc.
And yes Buy & sell
Etc, you get the point

Lack of these items are what I hypothesize is killing thewheelmen site. I've witnessed none of the arguing over there, but notice members deleting all of their posts and not coming back which is bad! Their for sale section often doesn't include photos of anything and have more than too many links for eBay auctions. They've pretty much stagnated with 3 or 4 new posts A WEEK!

I hope this doesn't happen with theCABE as it is a very helpful place to find information.

With the Lobdell seat ad situation I think it should have been deleted after Scott's first communication with the seller and no action was taken. Negativity builds on negativity. Maybe the site needs more moderators to take care of the small stuff like this.


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## Boris (Aug 24, 2013)

I'm sorry Gary, but I don't agree. This is a site full of characters who need to voice their own opinions. If a thread is too much for you, don't read it and don't participate in it. Like it or not, it's threads like the one about horizontal spring saddle that keep the CABE lively. If a thread is too much for the moderator, I have every confidence in the world that it will be "handled".


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## bike (Aug 24, 2013)

*I like the idea*

but there is always the little red X up in the top right, too.


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## Freqman1 (Aug 24, 2013)

Gary,
     For the most part I agree with you. In this case I did 'gently' remind/inform the seller of the rules--he didn't even acknowledge. I did the same with the other posts of the high end bikes and informed one of the mods of the post. I think some sort of community policing needs to happen occasionally when we get people who show willful disregard for the rules. 

With the exception of these few bad apples I have a great time on here and  enjoy the exchange of information and sharing--free of charge as you mentioned! I've met some super folks through the site who have helped me tremendously with both information and parts. Heck today a member offered to send me a part I need for one of my bikes free (and it isn't a cheap, easy to find piece either!). I have sent stuff to folks who needed something that I either made (decals) or needed more than me to complete a project. That karma thing actually works! I know I can be a little opinionated sometimes--some call that being an A-hole-- at least you know where I stand. For those that have dealt with me either personally or through this site I can guarantee if I make a deal with you as a buyer or seller either the payment or part/bike is on its way. 

Lastly I agree with the points you made and enjoy it when guys like you and others share your catalogs so we can all learn. I also appreciate when people post pics of bikes/parts because invariably I learn or gain and appreciation of something. I don't collect a lot of peripheral stuff e.g. catalogs, displays, advertising, etc... but I do study a lot and am willing to share what I know. I enjoy this hobby immensely, as do a lot of you, and this is one hobby that has more passion than any other I've been involved in. This probably leads to the drama we occasionally encounter! I look forward to my continued enjoyment of the hobby....V/r Shawn


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## catfish (Aug 24, 2013)

I've never clicked on that. What does it do?????



bike said:


> but there is always the little red X up in the top right, too.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Aug 24, 2013)

catfish said:


> I've never clicked on that. What does it do?????



it sends a ripple through the space time continuum..


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## rustjunkie (Aug 24, 2013)

Thanks, Gary.


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## Boris (Aug 24, 2013)

Y'know what Gary, I just rethought my previous reply, and really do agree that there is an awful lot of negativity in a small minority of the threads. But for the most part, I do find that most of our members are quite willing to share their vast knowledge and experience, and the vast majority of threads are friendly and helpful. In truth, much of the reason that I haven't been posting recently, is because I too, was getting weary of all the arguing at the drop of a hat. Perhaps I should have just taken my own advice, and just not read the threads that were so mean spirited...but then I'd just be bored by the the nicey-niceness of it all. Ah, it's all so complicated. Guess I'll just go back in my shell now cause I just don't know what the heck I think (please note use of family friendly word). One thing that I do know for certain though is that all things considered, this site is my home base. But then again, do I really know this for certain? Hmmm.


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## rustyspoke66 (Aug 24, 2013)

Some rules are good and some are not so good. One thing to think about is if a rule keeps being broken then maybe the rule is broken and needs to be changed. Just a thought.


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## bikewhorder (Aug 24, 2013)

Why is the word attempting in quotes when you said _Established members "attempting" humor_?  That hurts, I was really proud of some of those comments!  That was some funny poopy. I know I was laughing. I thought Chris and Mikes  was dialog was brilliant although I didn't realize they might actually be upset with one another till later, but still, I was thoroughly entertained.


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## Nickinator (Aug 24, 2013)

I think respectful disagreements on stuff like values, rarity, collectibilty, brand loyalty, polls if a certain person should get their own screen name (ahem) etc., are great, and lend themselves to fun and lively discussions.

Attacking people on a thread is immature and *not ok,* and intentionally disregarding the rules (no matter what your personal feelings are), *is also not ok.* I feel like some people are just lacking in basic manners and respect. It sucks for those of us that are respectful, and play by the rules.

But as far as us not keeping the thread alive by continuing to post comments- I  actually find it very helpful to see what side people fall on an issue like this- like someone said earlier, it shows people's true colors, and that helps me decide who I buy and sell with. 
A couple more people were added to the Do Not Deal With list...who needs the trouble.

Darcie


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## vincev (Aug 24, 2013)

[[Attacking people on a thread is immature and *not ok,* and intentionally disregarding the rules (no matter what your personal feelings are), *is also not ok.* I feel like some people are just lacking in basic manners and respect. It sucks for those of us that are respectful, and play by the rules.]]


Dave,Old Rider.Come on over to my place so we can sit in a circle ,hug and kiss make up  and be friends. In the future I shall try refraining from calling you guys morons,nincompoops,idiots,jerks,buttheads,etc.
  I enjoy the occasional disagreements on the Cabe.This is like a big family and everyone knows NO family gets along 24/7. Let Scott decide what is getting out of hand.The Cabe would really be boring if everyone was all kum ba yah! YUP, There are different spellings of kum ba yah.Lets start a debate.


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## 37fleetwood (Aug 24, 2013)

Dave Marko said:


> Y'know what Gary, I just rethought my previous reply, and really do agree that there is an awful lot of negativity in a small minority of the threads. But for the most part, I do find that most of our members are quite willing to share their vast knowledge and experience, and the vast majority of threads are friendly and helpful. In truth, much of the reason that I haven't been posting recently, is because I too, was getting weary of all the arguing at the drop of a hat. Perhaps I should have just taken my own advice, and just not read the threads that were so mean spirited...but then I'd just be bored by the the nicey-niceness of it all. Ah, it's all so complicated. Guess I'll just go back in my shell now cause I just don't know what the heck I think (please note use of family friendly word). One thing that I do know for certain though is that all things considered, this site is my home base. But then again, do I really know this for certain? Hmmm.




Help us Dave Marko, you're our only hope!

but seriously...
I've been here a long time, and I've seen many great members leave over this stuff. I've also been involved in it. I've been called some really vile stuff! usually over me trying to get people not to pick on new members or trying to get people to tone down their rhetoric. you newer guys don't remember the blowup over me having a Christian fish in my sig line! amazing how much that upset a few people.

the way I see it, there are 4 basic types when it comes to the buy sell forum.
1 regular rule following members who wouldn't be a problem even if there were no rules.
2 the types who clamour for rules like we have hoping that it will force un-knowledgeable members to list things they don't know the value of too cheaply so they have a shot of picking it off.
3 sellers who want the furror and bidding and squabbling. they don't care about the forum, they just want their money, and as much of it as possible.
4 the Dave and Vinces of the world who try to diffuse as much of the tension as they can with their humour.

unfortunately there are those who will always buy from type 3 guys. whether they complain about the rules or not it's dog eat dog, and they will do whatever it takes.
I tend to go the other way, I wouldn't buy a gold bar from these guys even if it could be had for $1.00! there isn't any bike part in the world that I want that bad!

clearly we need to enforce the "G" rating rule, as many "Childish" members as we have here!

my opinion is that if you remove these rules these problems instantly vanish. people should be allowed to haggle over used parts to their hearts content...


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## El Roth (Aug 24, 2013)

member of many other fourms..i see this too often..i just choose to ignore it. have you rode your bike today?


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## mruiz (Aug 24, 2013)

It gets complicated.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Aug 24, 2013)

I was called a scammer when I first became a member of this forum!
Members here can be really something other than good fellows.
Leaving comments on forums are somewhat like being shielded behind a cloak and some members feel they can get away with rude insults. It happens a lot on The Wheelman forum, as well.


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## bike (Aug 24, 2013)

*Why not*

have FOR SALE PRICED forum
and for the more stout at heart
the FISHING FOR A GOOD OFFER forum- I will use it!
Other forums for clubs I am on you have to be a paying member to post.
they do not want spam.
they are missing the one time person who just wants to make a quick buck- have one open thread for spammers etc and buyer beware- personally I have done well with one timers and dont want to see them run off. I am ocd and NEED to buy EVERY DAY!


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## stoney (Aug 24, 2013)

I agree pretty much with Gary. I am a Cabe member from back in the late 80's, yes I'm an old man compared to some of you. I had a collection of about 40 bikes and traded and sold about 400 bikes. I came back to the Cabe to get in touch with some of the old timers and to find a Schwinn B10E, which I did. That was the only bike I wish I had kept out of my collection. Back when I joined the Cabe in the late 80's The Cabe was a printed monthly newsletter. We traded and sold by phone calls, word of mouth, and written ads. All seemed good, I'm sure we had our problems also. As some of you may have noticed I have only been back about a month. I did notice all the negativity and snide remarks. I was actually surprised. It didn't scare me away BUT I did say to myself, what the hell is this? I will keep reading and posting as I need, I will also not let those remarks bother me. I may want a few more bikes, I am paying attention to  peoples remarks about others. It may have an effect on who I would and would not want to buy from. I'm not perfect and I don't know it all. If anyone out there is perfect and does know it all, let me know who you are. You may be a person I would want to deal with. Good luck to all and be safe.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Aug 24, 2013)

I was a member in the 80's, as well.
Nothing like today. Fortunately this 63 year old has a son that is a good computer tutor and he is afflicted with the bicycle disease. I guess that is better than being a drug Zombie! :^)


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## Nickinator (Aug 24, 2013)

bike said:


> ... I am ocd and NEED to buy EVERY DAY!




You must be related to Nick!!

(oops forgot to note *Darcie* duh )


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## bike (Aug 24, 2013)

*Darcie*



Nickinator said:


> You must be related to Nick!!
> 
> (oops forgot to note *Darcie* duh )




I dont think I was in the area round that time....


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## OldRider (Aug 24, 2013)

vincev said:


> [[Attacking people on a thread is immature and *not ok,* and intentionally disregarding the rules (no matter what your personal feelings are), *is also not ok.* I feel like some people are just lacking in basic manners and respect. It sucks for those of us that are respectful, and play by the rules.]]
> 
> 
> Dave,Old Rider.Come on over to my place so we can sit in a circle ,hug and kiss make up  and be friends. In the future I shall try refraining from calling you guys morons,nincompoops,idiots,jerks,buttheads,etc.
> I enjoy the occasional disagreements on the Cabe.This is like a big family and everyone knows NO family gets along 24/7. Let Scott decide what is getting out of hand.The Cabe would really be boring if everyone was all kum ba yah! YUP, There are different spellings of kum ba yah.Lets start a debate.




I'm a lover of all things antique, especially bicycles......I know I'll never own the beautiful bikes I see here so I enjoy looking at the photos. I'm also guilty of letting the "parters" get under my skin and have been known to let it get the best of me in a post. But more then that I enjoy the banter with the two nincompoops, Dave and Vince and a few others. After a stress filled day at work its great to have a few laughs with likeminded folks.


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## bricycle (Aug 24, 2013)

Nickinator said:


> You must be related to Nick!!
> 
> (oops forgot to note *Darcie* duh )




Well, if anyone here really has "O C D" I'd love to start a Break room Thread and chat on length about my affliction.....


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## bikewhorder (Aug 24, 2013)

bike said:


> I dont think I was in the area round that time....




Ha Ha, that was pretty funny "Nick ,I am your Father"


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## dave the wave (Aug 25, 2013)

stoney said:


> I agree pretty much with Gary. I am a Cabe member from back in the late 80's, yes I'm an old man compared to some of you. I had a collection of about 40 bikes and traded and sold about 400 bikes. I came back to the Cabe to get in touch with some of the old timers and to find a Schwinn B10E, which I did. That was the only bike I wish I had kept out of my collection. Back when I joined the Cabe in the late 80's The Cabe was a printed monthly newsletter. We traded and sold by phone calls, word of mouth, and written ads. All seemed good, I'm sure we had our problems also. As some of you may have noticed I have only been back about a month. I did notice all the negativity and snide remarks. I was actually surprised. It didn't scare me away BUT I did say to myself, what the hell is this? I will keep reading and posting as I need, I will also not let those remarks bother me. I may want a few more bikes, I am paying attention to  peoples remarks about others. It may have an effect on who I would and would not want to buy from. I'm not perfect and I don't know it all. If anyone out there is perfect and does know it all, let me know who you are. You may be a person I would want to deal with. Good luck to all and be safe.



the cabe goes back to the 80's ? i didn't know that.i started getting the bike shopper back in 1989 and then the cabe when richard truitt had it or i think even before that?.a real good one was the one out of ann arbor michigan called Ant.& Classic bicycle news


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## bike (Aug 25, 2013)

*subtype*

"3 sellers who want the furror and bidding and squabbling. they don't care about the forum, they just want their money, and as much of it as possible."

3a sellers who want the furror and bidding and squabbling. they **DO*** care about the forum, they just want their money, and as much of it as possible.

more money = more toys =  =enabling me to say YES instead of wish I could...


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## filmonger (Aug 25, 2013)

*RE: rules*

I agree with Gary for the most part. 

I consider myself still rather new to the world of the cabe... Though, I have been a collector & seller for years of all things cool.

When I created my first listing I made the mistake of not reading the rules. It was pointed out fairly quickly - BUT some of the responses were rather scathing. Once it was pointed out I quickly resolved it by listing a price and location. Most members were quite polite and nice... But it turned into a big deal for some reason. 

I have to say I was slightly unhappy with the outcome of that thread. Something that was a simple oversight and corrected fairly quickly had left me with a feeling of guilt - like I had shoplifted or something and been wrongly accused....now I was tainted in some manner. I was bummed. 

There will always be those who like to bait others and create havoc at the same time. It is hard not to take the bait sometimes even when we know better. Like all the best things in life - lets just keep it simple & polite. (though, I like the guys who use humour to diffuse these situations or make a point.)

It's a small community and we have all been around the block a few times - lets play it cool.


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## HIGGINSFOREVER (Aug 25, 2013)

After you have been on here a while you will figure out the a--holes and trouble makers its human nature at its best.


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## Boris (Aug 25, 2013)

HIGGINSFOREVER said:


> After you have been on here a while you will figure out the a--holes and trouble makers its human nature at its best.




Yet somehow Gene, you're still endearing.


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## HIGGINSFOREVER (Aug 25, 2013)

Dave Marko said:


> Yet somehow Gene, you're still endearing.



Whats endearing mean,choose your words carefully.The difference is my coming to your house and sticking a ice pick in all your bike tires or sending you a gift certificate to star bucks


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## dave the wave (Aug 25, 2013)

*I like Starbucks.....*

I am sitting at one right now.


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## vincev (Aug 25, 2013)

HIGGINSFOREVER said:


> Whats endearing mean,choose your words carefully.The difference is my coming to your house and sticking a ice pick in all your bike tires or sending you a gift certificate to star bucks




Go with the ice pick Gene.


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## Boris (Aug 25, 2013)

vincev said:


> Go with the ice pick Gene.




Reply in Break Room.


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## reginald (Aug 26, 2013)

*Making Gary's point*

First......this thread is making Gary's point for him.  Second....Bricycle made the best comment when he said (paraphrased) that members have no problem buying a badly underpriced item and screwing a newbie, or mocking a badly overpriced item.  I believe certain "established members" react to unpriced items so angrily because they are combing the threads for a "steal of a deal".  I, for one, prefer to purchase on *bay.  The free market sets the prices, there are no "dibs", and if you don't see a thread here in the first three minutes, you are out of luck. Who has time for that.


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## fordmike65 (Mar 9, 2017)

Gary Mc said:


> The recent & ongoing thread “FS Lobdell Horizontal Springs men's seat” prompted me to write this.  It is just the latest in an ongoing trend I see on the “Sell Trade” forum, where it is just ugly.  I don’t know why but when a seller doesn’t conform to the rules it is invariably going to end up in a 7-8 page thread of just pure UGLY, no other way to say it.  I refused to post on that thread and here are my thoughts on why and things we need to keep in mind.
> 
> This thread had it all:
> 
> ...




This needs to be a sticky.


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## OhioJones (Mar 9, 2017)

Who?


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## bricycle (Mar 9, 2017)

I miss Gary Mc....


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## rustjunkie (Mar 9, 2017)

"

Help each other out and help newbies to the site out
Help educate each other & newbies
Use this as a place to showcase our pride & joy bicycles and bike memorabilia including builds & restorations or original finds
Bring out items people have never seen that may be 50 to 150 years old
Showcase the rides, events, shows, & swaps taking place
Bring new people who are interested in old bikes into the hobby whether their interest lies in rides, show, restorations, educating themselves, etc.
And yes Buy & sell
Etc, you get the point"
Thank you, and very well said @Gary Mc
Sounds like an excellent "mission statement" for The Cabe to adopt.





Ideally each of us is here because of _an interest in vintage bicycles_. Of course that interest is always changing in flavor and intensity, so balance is important. Reminding ourselves of the points above and remembering that this is _a site about vintage bicycles_ will help in maintaining that balance.
Many of us are primarily excited about fresh finds and adding new goodies to our pile, some like to share info and learn something new, others like to preserve and restore, still others are all about the ride, but our common ground is old bicycles 
The Cabe and all our comments are open for viewing to _anyone who visits, registered member or not_.
The likelihood of new enthusiasts becoming involved and fresh metal coming to market increases as folks visit the site,
_like what they see enough to join_, and are then welcomed and encouraged to participate and contribute.

Spring is just down the hill: March 20, 2017!
We're here because we like to have fun with old bikes, right? Howsabout we post a photo chronicle of a project or repair, crack open that file cabinet then scan and share some old catalogs, or take part in a local ride. Better still, *start *a local ride!
Get into that garage and then get that bike on the road see some new things and meet some new folks. Get out to the swaps, shows, and meets...and remember:
_*have fun and post lots of pictures!*_


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## catfish (Mar 9, 2017)




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## bikewhorder (Mar 12, 2017)

bricycle said:


> I miss Gary Mc....



It says he was on here 24 days ago.  Maybe there's hope!


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