# New pics for Id help.



## eureka1 (Feb 20, 2020)

Here are some new pics of yesterdays find . I did a little cleaning and assembling of parts that came with bike frame . Has a Morrow hub. I have been looking at a lot of pictures of prewar Colson and CWC double bar frames on the cabe and have yet to see this chainring pattern...is that unusual to not find any similar .chainrings, Any more guesses on what who made this or how it might be badged ?
thx, martin


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## bike (Feb 20, 2020)

Westfield chainring?


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## JLF (Feb 20, 2020)

Nice find!  Wish I could help!


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## Freqman1 (Feb 20, 2020)

There should be a letter/number on the Morrow hub e.g. "F3". Can you tell us what it is? V/r Shawn


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## eureka1 (Feb 20, 2020)

Hi Shawn,
hub is pretty rough but i took some pics , here they are .
thx!


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## Krakatoa (Feb 20, 2020)

Q serial on Morrow is 1947 means hub is a later addition.

What is the dimension between the bb and the lower fender stay?


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## eureka1 (Feb 20, 2020)

the mystery deepens ...
thnx!


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## eureka1 (Feb 20, 2020)

Krakatoa said:


> Q serial on Morrow is 1947 means hub is a later addition.
> 
> What is the dimension between the bb and the lower fender stay?



sorry, what is bb?


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## Krakatoa (Feb 20, 2020)

Bottom bracket. It might be good to have as a reference measurement. It appears that this is a standard wheelbase frame not a long wheel base frame.









						Need Help to i.d.. Some chainrings please | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

Hi guys ! I need some help to ID. Some chainrings, any help will be appreciated thank you.                                                                              Manny




					thecabe.com


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## eureka1 (Feb 20, 2020)

Krakatoa said:


> Bottom bracket. It might be good to have as a reference measurement. It appears that this is a standard wheelbase frame not a long wheel base frame.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



looks to be 3 & 1/8 in.


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## Archie Sturmer (Feb 20, 2020)

Looks like a later *Colson *(edit: as others identified on 2 threads yesterday) model 04X68 snap-tank, as the truss tube front is lower and joins the down tube only.  Not sure about the "R" serial suffix.




The coffee grinder (or meat grinder) chain ring sprocket looks more like *Pierce*?
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/p...e-to-bring-another-back-from-the-dead.159673/
I believe that cranks had an offset dogleg for chain guards by that timeframe.

The offset for the crank drive pin may be a wide 1+5/8" non-standard, with a 1" shaft hole (vs. 15/16" 23.8mm); recommend keeping the crank, sprocket and oversize cones together.  Two (2 or more) nice sets of bicycle parts there.


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## Rambler (Feb 20, 2020)

@eureka1 I think your Colson looks quite a bit like this 1938 Colson Commander aside from the sprocket and handlebars.


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## fordmike65 (Feb 20, 2020)

As I stated here in BOTH your other threads, I believe it is indeed a prewar double bar Colson.








						Old frame I D help please ! | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

I found this frame and some bike parts in an old truck shop today and need some with I D , ANYBODY ? THE FENDERS WERE ON IT AND HANDLEBARS AS WELL , i FOUND A REAR WHEEL NEARBY WITH A STRANGE LOOKING BRAKE ARM THAT  I am not sure what the script says on the arm. did it belong to this bike...




					thecabe.com
				











						Help I D old bike frame . | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

I found this frame and some bike parts in an old truck shop today and need some with I D , ANYBODY ? THE FENDERS WERE ON IT AND HANDLEBARS AS WELL , I found a wheel with Morrow hub nearby .  . the serial numbers on the bottom are there . Cost me 20.00 for the bike and two more old fenders and...




					thecabe.com


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## eureka1 (Feb 20, 2020)

Rambler said:


> @eureka1 I think your Colson looks quite a bit like this 1938 Colson Commander aside from the sprocket and handlebars.View attachment 1143175



This is why I love the CABE! Big thank you to everyone who helped me solve this mystery.This is a local bike that I got from the son of the original owner here in Arcata cal.The son remembers riding it when he was a kid .
The bike and other bike parts were  stuffed in an attic crawl space of an old truck/machine shop that was run by the family for 3 generations.I paid 25 bucks for it with a bunch of bike parts as well  as other rusty junk. I don't think the family threw anything away in all of those 3 generations!
regards ,
Martin
PS, Looking for some struts for this bike.


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## fat tire trader (Feb 21, 2020)

You can date your Colson with the serial number.


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## fordmike65 (Feb 21, 2020)

If those fenders are original, it most likely is a '38. Forks are a carryover from mid-level '37's. I don't believe the crankset is original to the bike.


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## fat tire trader (Feb 21, 2020)

If it is a 38' @onecatahula had a set of truss rods.


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## eureka1 (Feb 21, 2020)

fat tire trader said:


> If it is a 38' @onecatahula had a set of truss rods.



thank you for the tip . 
martin


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## eureka1 (Feb 21, 2020)

fordmike65 said:


> If those fenders are original, it most likely is a '38. Forks are a carryover from mid-level '37's. I don't believe the crankset is original to the bike.



the bike came with a second set of fenders and will post a pick them later to see if you recognize them as colson as well.
thanks!


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## eureka1 (Feb 21, 2020)

the rear whitewall tire says Goodyear u.s. chain and has a chain pattern tread . what years were those tires ?


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## eureka1 (Feb 22, 2020)

eureka1 said:


> the bike came with a second set of fenders and will post a pick them later to see if you recognize them as colson as well.
> thanks!



her


e 

is the spare set of fenders that came along with the colson . Any idea of make and year ?
thx


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## piercer_99 (Feb 22, 2020)

eureka1 said:


> Hi Shawn,
> hub is pretty rough but i took some pics , here they are .
> thx!
> 
> ...



I would wager that chain wheel is not original to that bicycle.
If you want to sell it, the chain wheel that is, let me know.


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## eureka1 (Feb 22, 2020)

fat tire trader said:


> You can date your Colson with the serial number.





fat tire trader said:


> You can date your Colson with the serial number.





piercer_99 said:


> I would wager that chain wheel is not original to that bicycle.
> If you want to sell it, the chain wheel that is, let me know.
> 
> View attachment 1143936



any ideas on where/when the chainring is from ?


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## eureka1 (Feb 22, 2020)

eureka1 said:


> any ideas on where/when the chainring is from ?



what bike is the chainring on in your pic ?


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## Archie Sturmer (Feb 22, 2020)

See my previous post #11, (*Pierce*).

If Piercer does not want the *Pierce* crank and cones (discontinued long time ago), and they are still for sale, then let me know.


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## eureka1 (Feb 22, 2020)

I think I found my chainring on this 1920's  pierce arrow.


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## Archie Sturmer (Feb 22, 2020)

> I think I found my chainring on this 1920's  *pierce* *arrow*.



“Pierce Arrow” - I like the sound of that!


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## Schwinn lover (Feb 22, 2020)

Nice find!  Man, anyone know were i can find handlebars like on the first picture?  Those are super long handles.
Need a pair for a special build.


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## Adamtinkerer (Feb 22, 2020)

Difference between the long and short wheelbase Colsons. Usually, there's a two digit stamp offset and away from the serial # which is the date code, a letter & a number. "D 8" would be April '38.


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## fordmike65 (Feb 22, 2020)

eureka1 said:


> herView attachment 1143875
> 
> e View attachment 1143877
> 
> ...



Got a magnet handy? These puppies might be aluminum.


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## fordmike65 (Feb 22, 2020)

I might have an appropriate crankset if you plan to swap it out.


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## eureka1 (Feb 22, 2020)

fordmike65 said:


> Got a magnet handy? These puppies might be aluminum.





fordmike65 said:


> Got a magnet handy? These puppies might be aluminum.



i have to wait til i get home to check that out


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## eureka1 (Feb 22, 2020)

Adamtinkerer said:


> View attachment 1144054
> Difference between the long and short wheelbase Colsons. Usually, there's a two digit stamp offset and away from the serial # which is the date code, a letter & a number. "D 8" would be April '38.



I measure the distance between the bb and rear fender stay at 3 1/8 in and that looks like the regular wheelbase distance in the picture you supplied.


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## fordmike65 (Feb 22, 2020)

eureka1 said:


> I measure the distance between the bb and rear fender stay at 3 1/8 in and that looks like the regular wheelbase distance in the picture you supplied.



It's not a long wheelbase frame. They were only offered 36-37, tho a couple '38 dated singlebar frames have surfaced.


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## eureka1 (Feb 22, 2020)

fordmike65 said:


> Got a magnet handy? These puppies might be aluminum.



what would those have been original too if they are aluminum?


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## fordmike65 (Feb 22, 2020)

eureka1 said:


> what would those have been original too if they are aluminum?



Looks like the braces have been replaced. Looking at the slotted front fender mount hole, I don't believe they are Colson. The fenders on your bike are probably original.


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## eureka1 (Feb 22, 2020)

fordmike65 said:


> Looks like the braces have been replaced. Looking at the slotted front fender mount hole, I don't believe they are Colson. The fenders on your bike are probably original.



thanks!


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## piercer_99 (Feb 22, 2020)

eureka1 said:


> I think I found my chainring on this 1920's  pierce arrow.
> 
> View attachment 1143966



well it is a Pierce, no arrow about it.  The arrow was just a trademark that Pierced the name.


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## piercer_99 (Feb 22, 2020)

eureka1 said:


> what bike is the chainring on in your pic ?



As @Archie Sturmer mentioned, it is a chain wheel for a 1 piece Pierce crank set,

I have been searching for that set up.









						Found - iso Pierce 1 piece crank... | Wanted: Bikes, Trikes, Parts, Accessories, Etc.
					

Looking for a one piece crank, chain wheel, bearings and races for a Pierce / Emblem.  I have the cups, just need the rest of the important parts.  Thanks in advance.  Pierce




					thecabe.com


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## piercer_99 (Feb 22, 2020)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Looks like a later *Colson *(edit: as others identified on 2 threads yesterday) model 04X68 snap-tank, as the truss tube front is lower and joins the down tube only.  Not sure about the "R" serial suffix.
> View attachment 1143199
> The coffee grinder (or meat grinder) chain ring sprocket looks more like *Pierce*?
> https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/p...e-to-bring-another-back-from-the-dead.159673/
> ...



This pictured chain wheel at the bottom is not a Pierce, it is a Columbia chain wheel, very similar, but you can see how much it flares out at the center, the Pierce wheel is a consistant size to the center ring.


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## piercer_99 (Feb 22, 2020)

eureka1 said:


> the rear whitewall tire says Goodyear u.s. chain and has a chain pattern tread . what years were those tires ?



through the early 1950's


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## Archie Sturmer (Feb 22, 2020)

piercer_99 said:


> This pictured chain wheel at the bottom is not a Pierce, it is a Columbia chain wheel, very similar, but you can see how much it flares out at the center, the Pierce wheel is a consistant size to the center ring.



Did Pierce ever use reduced size sprockets, say with 22 teeth, (like the one in post#11), say for ladies, juveniles, or youths bikes, if so how might that have changed the geometry in some way.  Did Westfield ever use oversize 1" cranks, with an odd 1+5/8" offset to the drive pin.


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## piercer_99 (Feb 22, 2020)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Did Pierce ever use reduced size sprockets, say with 22 teeth, (like the one in post#11), say for ladies, juveniles, or youths bikes, if so how might that have changed the geometry in some way.  Did Westfield ever use oversize 1" cranks, with an odd 1+5/8" offset to the drive pin.



regarding the Pierce question, I believe they all looked similar, it is very difficult in my experience to find catalog photos of the ladies models.

In this image, you can see the upper right regular model has a slightly different style, and the lower right special is just a smaller diameter.






On the Westfield question, I don't know.   All of my Westfield cranks are from the 20's and none of them have drive pins on them.


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## eureka1 (Feb 23, 2020)

eureka1 said:


> i have to wait til i get home to check that out



Yes , they are aluminum fenders .


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## eureka1 (Feb 25, 2020)

fordmike65 said:


> I might have an appropriate crankset if you plan to swap it out.



i think I would like to swap it out .


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