# Early style black muscle bike, huffy?



## Artweld

Found this frame with the rear wheel and tire, the frame is slightly different then other frames that I have such as 1/2" wider near the upper brake fender mounting area and has a plate instead of the round tubing, also looks almost identical to the the mid 60s  to late 60s frame but has a slightly different angle when it's put up next to the others, has a 36 hole rb2 hub with the older drop center rim that has that line along the edge with an almost disappearing edge, front chain guard mount in the hole in the bottom bracket, any ideas on the make. My plan is build a penguin style bike would this make a good candidate frame, thanks


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## madsapper

Could be a Columbia as well.  Cool find.


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## Jaxon

Looks like a Huffy frame. What is the serial number on the left rear drop out. Cool Project for a Penguin.


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## Artweld

Jaxon said:


> Looks like a Huffy frame. What is the serial number on the left rear drop out. Cool Project for a Penguin.



I am hoping it's a huffy frame, didn't see a serial number anywhere on the frame will have to check again I do have a drop center 28 hole front wheel, my research says a 42 tooth sprocket Wald, but I don't think that size works with the penguin style chain guard that I have  unless they make a bigger guard same style?  a 36 tooth seems right for it, more research on the guard area I guess, any clue, thanks


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## Jaxon

I am not sure on the sprocket. I am sure it is the smaller one. I built one of the Penguin bikes but with different wheels. If you clean the paint off the rear drop out there should be a number there. The guard you have is correct for it.


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## Artweld

Jaxon said:


> I am not sure on the sprocket. I am sure it is the smaller one. I built one of the Penguin bikes but with different wheels. If you clean the paint off the rear drop out there should be a number there. The guard you have is correct for it.



Thanks for your input, the smaller sprocket works better, I'll check that site that stated it takes a 42 tooth sprocket,  may have been something John brain wrote, i may be wrong but will look into it,  the only way I see a 42 working on it is if the front bracket was longer to clear the larger sprocket but then that may throw off the rear angle of the guard.


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## Artweld

Jaxon said:


> I am not sure on the sprocket. I am sure it is the smaller one. I built one of the Penguin bikes but with different wheels. If you clean the paint off the rear drop out there should be a number there. The guard you have is correct for it.


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## Artweld

Jaxon said:


> I am not sure on the sprocket. I am sure it is the smaller one. I built one of the Penguin bikes but with different wheels. If you clean the paint off the rear drop out there should be a number there. The guard you have is correct for it.



yup serial number was under the paint rear drop out black frame 2R017356,  gold frame B/Bracket W367289, green frame B/Bracket W200557, I'm thinking the black may be the oldest frame? It's definitely different as you can see in the pics


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## Jaxon

The black Frame I believe is a 62. The R is throwing me off. They used W and C in the serial numbers as far as I know. Have to do some more checking on it.


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## professor72

Did Huffy make any bikes  for a brand that starts with (R) from 1972? I know Huffy frames usually have an H prefix, Sears have S and Western Flyers have W from what I've seen. It looks like a huffy, but I don't think the short frame bikes before 1964 or 1965 would have the crimps in the frame behind the kickstand because I think they were made for the early slicks abu that time. I'll check my 1964 Dragster frame and my 50' western flyer frame to see what they have on the dropouts for crimps. Cool mystery.


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## madsapper

I have a 74-75 Spyder 5 speed that has the same drop outs.


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## Artweld

professor72 said:


> Did Huffy make any bikes  for a brand that starts with (R) from 1972? I know Huffy frames usually have an H prefix, Sears have S and Western Flyers have W from what I've seen. It looks like a huffy, but I don't think the short frame bikes before 1964 or 1965 would have the crimps in the frame behind the kickstand because I think they were made for the early slicks abu that time. I'll check my 1964 Dragster frame and my 50' western flyer frame to see what they have on the dropouts for crimps. Cool mystery.



More pics and  more clues to solving this mystery huffy? The black frame rear stays are 5/8" tubing top and bottom with a 7/8" flat style crimping at the rear drop outs both lower and upper, lower stay has a drain hole and the upper stay has a more smoother transition as it exits the drop out,, the gold frame has 5/8" tubing upper with 7/8" crimp, the bottom stay has 3/4" tubing with a 1 1/16"crimp no drain hole and has points just before the  crimping areas and the transition is not as smooth as the black frame. It's almost as if the black frame was perhaps an early experiment type also the serial number is stamped upside-down, also in the last picture which style fender/brake bracket is the early style the tubing or the metal plate


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## professor72

The mystery deepens. When I was talking about the crimping of the frame, I was talking about up by the kickstand in the inside of the frame where the rear fender attached. I didn't even notice the dropout differences.


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## Artweld

professor72 said:


> The mystery deepens. When I was talking about the crimping of the frame, I was talking about up by the kickstand in the inside of the frame where the rear fender attached. I didn't even notice the dropout differences.



Thought I was getting closer to I. D. the frame, ebay has a 65' dragster ll with almost the same drop out but without  the top ears with holes, and the dragster frame looks more like my green and gold frames with that same angle of flow, in the eBay pics both upper and lower rear stays look the same size 5/8" as my blk frame and again the blk frame has the plate fender /brake mounting bracket instead of the tube like that dragster.. Can anyone answer what is the earlier rear fender /brake mount the plate or the tube?  Also would help me if anyone knows the  years of these serial numbers W367289 W200557 and possibly later date 9W273155, is it possible that black frame is 1962 or 1963 the hole behind the seat post clamp area is not like any other huffys I seen after 1964


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## Artweld

1965 dragster ll with the small seat post hole same has the mystery frame instead of the slot like my other frames but after zooming in on the dragster may be a slot instead


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## madsapper




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## madsapper

above pics are the drop outs and rear seat post hole from a 74-75 Sears Spyder 5, which was made by huffy.  In the drop out pic, you can see a set of the same drop outs in the back ground.  Those are on a Huffy Cool Ghoul frame from the same vintage (top bars are different, it looks like a Red Hot or shorty rail frame).


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## Artweld

madsapper said:


> View attachment 464700 View attachment 464702





madsapper said:


> above pics are the drop outs and rear seat post hole from a 74-75 Sears Spyder 5, which was made by huffy.  In the drop out pic, you can see a set of the same drop outs in the back ground.  Those are on a Huffy Cool Ghoul frame from the same vintage (top bars are different, it looks like a Red Hot or shorty rail frame).



wow that's cool thanks for the info so what's the red hot or shorty rail frame yours or mine


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## madsapper

Neither.  they have two bars on the top instead of one like this pic of a Grants badged Huffy Rail.


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## Artweld

madsapper said:


> above pics are the drop outs and rear seat post hole from a 74-75 Sears Spyder 5, which was made by huffy.  In the drop out pic, you can see a set of the same drop outs in the back ground.  Those are on a Huffy Cool Ghoul frame from the same vintage (top bars are different, it looks like a Red Hot or shorty rail frame).



Again thanks for the info any chance you can get the information on the other two frames in the pics serial numbers are listed so I can decide how to build them up


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## Artweld

madsapper said:


> Neither.  they have two bars on the top instead of one like this pic of a Grants badged Huffy Rail.View attachment 464708



Damn love that frame is that hard to come by


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## Kramai88

I have two of these sure looks like a Huffy Rail


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Artweld

Kramai88 said:


> I have two of these sure looks like a Huffy Rail
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Sweet huffy rail,  man If I ever get my hands on one I'll do a mild mid 70s custom on it, that frame is a perfect candidate for a project I've been wanting to do, just after I do a clone penguin


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## professor72

I looked at my 1964 dragster and my 1966 cheater slick and each of them have very slight indents between the  stays right behind the kickstand, not like the deep ones on you black frame. Dropouts are the same as your black one.


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## Artweld

professor72 said:


> I looked at my 1964 dragster and my 1966 cheater slick and each of them have very slight crimps between the stys behind the kickstand, not like the deep ones on you black frame. Dropouts are the same as your black one.



I'm getting 2 messages from you concerning the drop outs., one says same as the others, and other message says same as black frame? Any idea why that black frame is starting with a #2Rxxxx,serial number seem to be a little confusing, any idea on the other serial numbers that I have listed sure would like to know the other years any help would be greatly appreciated thanks


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## professor72

What i'm saying is the dropouts on my 2 huffy's are the same as your black huffy, but the part of the frame where the rear wheel passes though just by the kickstand is not. your frame has deep indents in the stays on each side to clear the tires where as mine have very slight indents. The "R" is different though. Did you have a dept. store or other retailer in your area in the 60's and 70's that started with an R? I've never seen a huffy frame that has that. Regardless, I would buy parts and make yourself a Penguin replica. Who cares what others think?


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## Artweld

professor72 said:


> What i'm saying is the dropouts on my 2 huffy's are the same as your black huffy, but the part of the frame where the rear wheel passes though just by the kickstand is not. your frame has deep indents in the stays on each side to clear the tires where as mine have very slight indents. The "R" is different though. Did you have a dept. store or other retailer in your area in the 60's and 70's that started with an R? I've never seen a huffy frame that has that. Regardless, I would buy parts and make yourself a Penguin replica. Who cares what others think?



Thanks I'm going to stick with my original plan and build a penguin replica, that's interesting to know how different years used the drop outs on some early style huffys then stopped and used them again on later years, guess it all depends on what the buyer wanted on their order,  so I'm finding out now that are on 64 66 and 75 huffys and others I suppose, just a guess with the serial number starting with a 2 is it possible it's a 1962 frame I'm going to check that R again may be a P.


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## professor72

That's the way to be; don't worry about the purists and make what you want. I'll keep my eyes open for the R or P serial number stamping. Here's my 1964 dragster. I loved the look of these so I found a 1966 cheater slick and made it into a Dragster. Then I found an original 64 dragster black frame on eBay and swapped all the parts over from the 66. I'll post a picture of the 64 and 66 bikes together later. I made it into a mercury marauder themed bike.


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## Artweld

professor72 said:


> That's the way to be; don't worry about the purists and make what you want. I'll keep my eyes open for the R or P serial number stamping. Here's my 1964 dragster. I loved the look of these so I found a 1966 cheater slick and made it into a Dragster. Then I found an original 64 dragster black frame on eBay and swapped all the parts over from the 66. I'll post a picture of the 64 and 66 bikes together later. I made it into a mercury marauder themed bike.
> 
> View attachment 467890



Wow that's great work awesome looking bike that's a great resource for my project penguin down the road just takes time to locate the period correct parts, would really like to see those other bikes pics when you get a chance thanks


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## professor72

Thanks for the compliments. I tried to make it like the earliest photo from the catalog for the dragster. I'll post a newer picture with the correct grips I've since found along with the 66 marauder tribute. We just moved, so I know it's in a box somewhere


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## Artweld

Jaxon said:


> The black Frame I believe is a 62. The R is throwing me off. They used W and C in the serial numbers as far as I know. Have to do some more checking on it.



So are you assuming that it's a 62 frame because it starts with a # 2? That's kinda what I've been reading lately but sometimes it gets confusing on different sites, are you the Jaxon that was selling that hangman bar on ebay?


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## Jaxon

Artweld said:


> So are you assuming that it's a 62 frame because it starts with a # 2? That's kinda what I've been reading lately but sometimes it gets confusing on different sites, are you the Jaxon that was selling that hangman bar on ebay?





Yes and yes.  Huffy made bikes had a number then a letter then the serial number all together. So it is either a 62 or 72. The rear stays would help narrow down the year to 62 or 72. I think someone mentioned them. Yes that was me with the Hangman's sissy bar. It is a hard to find sissy bar in nice original shape. Price on it is crazy. I bought it to copy but someone else copied them for a short time. I bought 2 of his copies and they are really close to the originals. I also make the Top Fueler Drag forks.


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## Artweld

Jaxon said:


> View attachment 468709
> 
> 
> Yes and yes.  Huffy made bikes had a number then a letter then the serial number all together. So it is either a 62 or 72. The rear stays would help narrow down the year to 62 or 72. I think someone mentioned them. Yes that was me with the Hangman's sissy bar. It is a hard to find sissy bar in nice original shape. Price on it is crazy. I bought it to copy but someone else copied them for a short time. I bought 2 of his copies and they are really close to the originals. I also make the Top Fueler Drag forks.View attachment 468708



Those forks look absolutely Kool, are they almost identical to the original ones? What are you getting for the top fueler drag forks?


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## Jaxon

They are identical to the originals except I use stainless steel instead of steel. I only have to polish them no chrome plating costs. They will be 450 dollars plus shipping. They will be ready in a few weeks.


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## Artweld

Jaxon said:


> They are identical to the originals except I use stainless steel instead of steel. I only have to polish them no chrome plating costs. They will be 450 dollars plus shipping. They will be ready in a few weeks.



Will you let me know when your ready to send a pair of the forks and what would shipping cost be to stockton CA 95201 thanks


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## Jaxon

I will let you know when they are ready. Thanks !


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## professor72

Finally got a chance to take some pics after the move.
*1964 Huffy Dragster*. This is a real deal 64 black frame Dragster.




*1966 Dragster Super Marauder*. I made this up because the the Bill Stroppe shops made Mercury NASCAR racers in the 60's so I used a 65 Marauder air cleaner decal for the chainguard and a Bill Stroppe racing shop sticker on the seat so it looks like something they sold for kids out of their shop. I like it anyways...


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## Oldnut

Here's 2 64 Huffmans a sears and a western flyer


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## Jaxon

Very Cool Bikes! Nice to see first year bikes.


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## Chopper1

64, 65...?


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## 67Ramshorn

Very cool muscle bikes !!


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## partsguy

I know I am chiming in late here, but did you check the head tube for serial numbers? That is a Huffy frame, I am very sure of it. The serial numbers look odd to me. They changed their serial number format in the mid 1970s. There was a number on the dropout and the headtube. The headtube number started with "HC".


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