# Proper width replacement 26x2.125 tires?



## dirtman (Mar 9, 2021)

I recently picked up a late 40's Columbia that's ridable except for the fact that the tires are likely original, or darn close to it. 
The tires on the bike are Carlisle Lightning and there's not much left of them, the rear tire is near bald and loosing tread with every ride, the front tire still has tread but has several blocks of tread missing. 

I picked up a pair of new blackwall Goodyear pattern tires but they're a good bit narrower then the original tires. (Almost a 3/8" narrower). 
They don't look right on the bike. They also have a square profile vs. the rounder shape of the old tires. 
The new tires look like they'd fit inside the old tires. 

Does anyone make a new tire that's true to size? In blackwall?


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## Archie Sturmer (Mar 9, 2021)

2.125” width is common.  Some *economy* tires are Duro, CST (Chen Sing?), among a few.  Others make 2.2” or 2.3” or 2.35” which are all wider, and may or may not fit.  Some tires sold in a box at like Walmart, may indicate that the tires will fit a size range, say 1.75” to 2.125” wide — that means that the tires are only 1.75” wide.
Tires are flexible, but they do not have a size range.


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## GTs58 (Mar 9, 2021)

Check out the chain tread tires John sells. 









						Clay U.S. Royal Chain tread tires, Pair, New | Sell - Trade: Bicycle Parts, Accessories, Ephemera
					

$70.00 Clay U.S. Royal Chain tread tires, Pair, New, Prewar Postwar balloon style white wall tires 26X2.125 Shipped. Order 2 pair and price is $65.00 a pair shipped  Free pair of tubes will go with the tires while supply lasts. This is for a pair of brand new tires and tubes.  Brand new modern...




					thecabe.com


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## dirtman (Mar 10, 2021)

The bike will easily take another 1/2" of actual width. 
The current Carlisle tires fill the fenders well, but when I tried the Taiwan made tires they looked small. 
They don't look that bad side by side but the overall diameter of the two tires is almost 1/2" with both inflated to 32 psi. 
The original tires grow far more than the new tires do. 





Goodyear knockoff on the left, Carlisle on the right. both on box shaped rims. 
The left tire is on a Schwinn S2 rim, the right tire on a stock 1949 Columbia rim. 
The tire on the left was bought back in 1996 from an LBS for about $8 each. 

The newer 'Goodyear' pattern tires from the LBS aren't as wide even though their marked the same way. 

The chain tires look great but do they come in black? The $70 is a lot though for a pair of bicycle tires though. 
The LBS has the Sunlite tires for $12.99 each, so about $47 with tubes out the door with tax for two tires and tubes.
In reality, I'd likely reuse the tubes since they don't leak, which would save about $18. With tax two new tires would only be about $28. 
The bike isn't a show piece, but I'd like to be able to ride it on occasion so new rubber is a must. The tire on it won't likely last more than few more miles.
In the pic the tire on the right has only about 10 psi on it, as I inflate it the cracks open up and the loose bits of tread become apparent. The rear tire is missing a few pretty good chunks of the tread exposing the cords. 
The tires grow quite a bit with more air. The Goodyear tread tire is at 45 psi, the max marked on the sidewall.


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## bloo (Mar 10, 2021)

Carlisle's look fat, and have a tread and sidewall design that makes them look older than they really are. I say look fat because I measured some tires last year, and it turns out things are not always as they seem.

Since I have seen Goodyear-copy-tread tires that look extremely fat, it begs the question, which brands of those tires are fat and which brands are not?

Another vote for chains if you want a period look. Small Brick (Schwinn-copy-tread) would probably roll nice since they are a round profile, and not so much rubber on the ground flexing. That part is speculation. If you just want fat, look into getting some bigger tires, like 26x2.35 or something. The tread probably wont be vintage, but you might be able to go even fatter than 2.35 if they will clear your fenders.
.


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## Superman1984 (Mar 10, 2021)

As for width on the Goodyear tires; run them at max psi when on the bike & the width of the bead seat determines their width. 


That is a 26x2.125 stretched on a 2"+  widened rim. Had it not been sanded to a slick it would have a more squared profile but loses some height since stretched width wise.


The flame tread tires & such seem to have a more squared side wall when max psi. 

My 3" Duro tires on Whizzer / Lobdell style flat /S2 type 26x1.75 wheels Never Look as fat as the 2.3 -2.5 -3" do on wider rims say in the 52mm+ range.

 If you fit a 2.3" - 2.5" tire it will be a close to zero tolerance with fenders on ballooner frames IF it clears at all. Best start with Really True wheels. Not fun trying to stop rubbing.


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## Superman1984 (Mar 10, 2021)

Those are what I bought for my '51 Columbia

$55 free shipping for 2 tires & 2 tubes + I think a remake/custom Columbia badge


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## dirtman (Mar 10, 2021)

I've got a finger's space on both sides of the tire both up front and at the seat stays, the closest point is the chainguard area on the rear fender. I trial fit a pair of 2.35 tires I had here but those were WTB knobby tires. They fit but had to be deflated to get the tire in the dropouts and the wheel had to be very centered in the fender.

I want a period correct looking tire in all black. 
The Goodyear tires in the pic above are Cheng Shin made and about 25-30 years old. 
The newer one's I've seen have been wider and thinner overall.

I can't believe the cost of some bike tires these days, I shouldn't be able to buy four tires for my car cheaper than for a pair of bicycles.

One thing I noticed is that the Carlisle Lightning tires are very soft and they deform more under rider weight even at higher pressure compared to the Goodyear style tires which have very stiff sidewalls. The Goodyear tires handle the weight better but ride a lot rougher. The Carlisle tires give a better feel when riding, they handle turns on sand and gravel better than the Goodyear style tires do. The Goodyear tread slides easier on turns if there's anything on the road but they do seem to roll easier. 


Someone must be making a Carlisle copy now because I saw brand new JC Higgins bikes with them at one of the hardware stores over the last Christmas holiday. But all had wide whitewalls.


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## srfndoc (Mar 10, 2021)

Johns Royal Chain tires are great and he does have all black.


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## dirtman (Mar 11, 2021)

I agree, they look great but I can't put $70 into a pair of tires for a bicycle.


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## Superman1984 (Mar 12, 2021)

I have been into a set for about $68 but they're 26x3". You'll pay more for anything over 2.125 automatically & the Vee Chicane tires I want to try are close to that for 1 tire. Cheapest tire bang for the buck is Duro. Just be aware there are some compound differences; some are more like a natural rubber & some of their slick styles have more of a plastic rubber feel.


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## Archie Sturmer (Mar 12, 2021)

Duro also makes or sells rounder and perhaps fatter looking tires HFT-120A, sometimes referred to as “small bricks” or another name (that I always forget).
I like to use those for a front tire.
Not sure if import restrictions are causing the price of even economy tires to increase?


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## Superman1984 (Mar 12, 2021)

Archie Sturmer said:


> Duro also makes or sells rounder and perhaps fatter looking tires HFT-120A, sometimes referred to as “small bricks” or another name (that I always forget).
> I like to use those for a front tire.



These ? https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/gkMAAOSwaXVe5uBi/s-l400.jpg 

If so the only thing I have that has those type of tires is a Cruiser 7 girls bike with the weather cracking Schwinn tires. Do the Duro tires ride Good in that tread? Have them in 26x3" slick style & the squared "thick birck" 2.125s; the 3" tires ride like a Cadillac but the 2.125 ride like well a firm brick.


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## dirtman (Mar 13, 2021)

I haven't seen any tires first hand that were branded Duro, but I see Sunlite tagged tires with Kenda on the sidewall.
The Goodyear tread tires I have here are marked Cheng Shin and they're a very heavy, stiff tire. Comparing them to an old Carlisle Lightning is like comparing a thin sidewall passenger car radial to a heavy truck tire. 
They don't look right on the bike and ride hard. The worn out, dry rotted old Carlisle tires roll better and ride smoother.

Several bike shops have told me that the price hasn't gone up, they just aren't getting what they ordered, or they don't stock that size and when they go to order them they don't show up. 
Walmart here looks like they aren't restocking bikes or parts, they clearanced out all the bikes and parts last year and now only have a few kids bikes on the rack.  Apparently someone bought up all the tires and are now listing them for crazy prices on Craigslist.
The wholesale prices went up a bit but only a few dollars, it looks to me like retailers are simply price gouging due to the pandemic.
Tires that were $24/pr are now $50+/pr. 

A few shops did have whitewall tires, but no blackwall tires. 

I keep hearing that bikes are in short demand but I'm an hour out of the city and I see bikes for sale for cheap all over that aren't moving and the local shops are dead, the department stores seem to be getting out of bikes altogether.
Not that I have any interest in a new bike or anything from Walmart, but it seemed odd to me that they dumped all their bikes and parts a before the holiday season started and then didn't put any back in stock for the holiday. 
A few years back Walmart had old school style Carlisle knobby copies with a wire bead but those were whitewall only and I've not seen them in about 5 years or more. 

The "Goodyear" style tires we see now aren't like the original Goodyear tires, the tread is slightly different, and the original sidewalls were more rounded, not at all like the tires being sold now.  They were rare back in the day where I grew up, that usually meant they were more money then the other brands.

The go-to tire when I was a kid, was usually from Sears, branded 'Allstate' and usually cheaper than others. Another tire was Cordovan, from Pep Boys. The Corovan tires had small diamond shaped tread blocks. I also remember seeing Firestone branded tires with a sawtooth tread but we didn't have a Firestone store in town. Carlisle was a tire that was preferred but they were hard to find even back then. It seemed that no one stocked them and those that did were always sold out. That was over 50 years ago when these bikes were still common place and when bike parts could still be bought locally.


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## Superman1984 (Mar 13, 2021)

dirtman said:


> I haven't seen any tires first hand that were branded Duro, but I see Sunlite tagged tires with Kenda on the sidewall.
> The Goodyear tread tires I have here are marked Cheng Shin and they're a very heavy, stiff tire. Comparing them to an old Carlisle Lightning is like comparing a thin sidewall passenger car radial to a heavy truck tire.
> They don't look right on the bike and ride hard. The worn out, dry rotted old Carlisle tires roll better and ride smoother.
> 
> ...



Those Cheng Shin tires are basically the Duro "thick bricks" or the "Goodyear" type tires. 

There's this Duro "slick" tire & they make them in
 2.125 - 3", BW, WW, Colored WW too & then there's the Schwinn brick pattern. These seem to have the least rolling resistance & aren't as squared until you go with wider rims into the 2" range


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## Superman1984 (Mar 13, 2021)

Wanna talk ridiculousness; tires have gone up, handle bars cost more to ship, & box store bikes are being jacked up price wise. Covid has drastically sent people to gouging + all the vintage junk bike stuff is now stupid prices. It's Only going to get worse due to those here in the know & those who see it without any knowledge. Like $2500 for a repop Phantom  & $2-300 for a paintes middle weight "space" bike


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## dirtman (Mar 14, 2021)

Last September I bought two Schwinn S7 tires from a dealer in a shore town, the place was like a ghost town. 
I asked if they had any tires for 26" and an S7 rim, and the guy came out with two Kenda tires, $10.99 each. 
I bought both tires. He told me he had two boxes of them, and that he got them by mistake a couple years ago. I got to thinking that I'll likely need two more for a bike I'm working on here so two days later I stopped by to get two more tires and he wanted $30 each.  I told him I just paid $11 each for the same tires two days earlier and he said he 'checked eBay' and realized he was selling them too cheap. I shook my head and walked out without the tires. The last time I was out that way I noticed that shop was gone. 
I had another shop tell me they didn't sell parts over the counter, only online, then handed me a business card with their ebay store address on it. That shop is also gone now. 
While down in FL over the winter, a neighbor asked me to take a look at a bike they bought off another neighbor. The headset was falling apart and the top nut was cracked. It was a very clean looking Vista three speed. I drove around all day trying to find a bike shop that had a Wald headset nut to sell me. After 9 shops I finally found one that had a bike outback that someone had abandoned that he took one off of. Two of the shops I stopped at asked me if I had bought a bike there before, when I said no, they told me they only sell parts to 'regular customers'.  That comment simply put a couple more shops on the list of places to never deal with. 
Many years ago I worked at a bike shop part time, I did new bike assembly, built wheels for inventory, and did some repairs. 
That shop kept a thorough stock of all parts for all the bikes they sold and some they didn't. All the shops in town kept at least basic repair parts. 
These days your lucky if a shop stocks tires let alone things like bearings or other parts. 

The blame doesn't fall completely on the retailer for price gouging as long as people keep paying those prices. 
If people keep buying no matter what the price, they'll keep raising the price.


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## rollfaster (Mar 14, 2021)

I’ve used Johns Royal Chain blackwall and whitewalls on my prewar bikes, they are great. But I also used the GT Cheng Shin square tread tires. Never had any issues with those at all, psi is 40-65 and I usually run them at 50psi. They have a great rolling resistance with higher pressure. I weigh 204, so I cannot ride 22-35
Psi tires, way too hard to ride!


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## Superman1984 (Mar 14, 2021)

rollfaster said:


> I’ve used Johns Royal Chain blackwall and whitewalls on my prewar bikes, they are great. But I also used the GT Cheng Shin square tread tires. Never had any issues with those at all, psi is 40-65 and I usually run them at 50psi. They have a great rolling resistance with higher pressure. I weigh 204, so I cannot ride 22-35
> Psi tires, way too hard to ride!



160 lbs here so I usually run most of my tires at the max psi but never above. Usually 35-38 always seems sufficient even on 3" tires with 2.125 tubes. Makes me nervous 'cause I am wondering how bad the tubes are nowadays about popping. So far I haven't busted any from pinch flats or anything. Old tubes have pin holed but I blame it on age or previous owners. Lol


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## dirtman (Mar 14, 2021)

I'm just over 6'3" and 300 lbs. The Carlisle tires say 32 psi max, with all the age showing on them I don't dare take them over that. 
The Cheng Shin GY tread tires on the Schwinn are 45 psi max. The Schwinn weighs a bit more than the Columbia with the Carlisle tires too. 
With the Cheng Shin tires at the same pressure, they don't squat nearly as much as the Carlisle tires. I run them at the max pressure though because I've had them drop down into the rim a bit at 32 psi. The soft, sagging Carlisle tires are easier to push down the road than the fully inflated 45 psi Cheng Shin tires. 
When I got the Schwinn, it had a set of never ridden on Carlisle knobby white walls from the late 70's or so. They had a max pressure of 32 psi on the sidewalls. 
Those things were like pedaling in mud. I had stuck a set of  modern tread flame tires on it after I first went through the whole bike and it rode great, but the flame tires looked bad out of place on an old Schwinn and I hated the white walls. They were also small for their marked 2.125" size. 
I bought the CS tires in black because it was all I could find that was black and not made for a mountain bike. They pedal harder than the old knobby Carlisle tires it came with. A buddy of mine has four similar Schwinn bikes, he has one with old Carlisle tires he bought new old stock, two with the newer brick tread tires he got online, and one with original Schwinn 'Westwind' brick tread tires he bought from someone who was repopping them 20 years ago. 
The Carlisle Lightning tires are the best ride, the newer brick tread tires are okay, but the original Westwind repops are the best all around. 

I don't think the Schwinn style brick tread would look right on my Columbia, its a plain black bike, no tank, no chrome, so it needs black period correct tires. 
The chain tires would be great but I'm not spending $70 for a pair of tires for a bike. 
It'll stay just the way it is with the old Carlisle tires until something better turns up for a price I can afford. If the GY tread tires were cheap, I'd probably throw a set on it just so it could be ridden without worrying about a tire splitting open.


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## Superman1984 (Mar 14, 2021)

dirtman said:


> I'm just over 6'3" and 300 lbs. The Carlisle tires say 32 psi max, with all the age showing on them I don't dare take them over that.
> The Cheng Shin GY tread tires on the Schwinn are 45 psi max. The Schwinn weighs a bit more than the Columbia with the Carlisle tires too.
> With the Cheng Shin tires at the same pressure, they don't squat nearly as much as the Carlisle tires. I run them at the max pressure though because I've had them drop down into the rim a bit at 32 psi. The soft, sagging Carlisle tires are easier to push down the road than the fully inflated 45 psi Cheng Shin tires.
> When I got the Schwinn, it had a set of never ridden on Carlisle knobby white walls from the late 70's or so. They had a max pressure of 32 psi on the sidewalls.
> ...



I was trying to help but I am going No Comment Silent on this topic.


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## dirtman (Mar 18, 2021)

This may be a dumb question after all this discussion as to tires for this bike, but since I was told that this bike is a 'Goodyear Highway Patrol' model, would that mean it would have come new with Goodyear tires back in 1949?


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## kunzog (Mar 18, 2021)

It's hard to find balloon tire tubes anymore. like tire manufactures keep making them narrower and narrower. just look at some old tubes, they were really fat!


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## bloo (Mar 23, 2021)

dirtman said:


> Someone must be making a Carlisle copy now because I saw brand new JC Higgins bikes with them at one of the hardware stores over the last Christmas holiday. But all had wide whitewalls.




That's interesting on a whole bunch of levels. Where did you see that?


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## dirtman (Mar 23, 2021)

They were on this model bike, this particular one had a different tread, something similar to one of the current Kenda tires but with Allstate scripting on the side. 
I've run across 5 or 6 of these in the past two years for sale at yardsales and flea markets here, all used but in fairly new looking shape. I'm pretty sure I saw something above Pacific Cycles on the seat post on one of them. 
It really didn't sink in when I saw the first one, but the use of the JC Higgins name, caught my eye, especially since they starting popping up quite a while after Sears closed up their last even somewhat local store. They've been gone from this area for about 5 years now, and haven't carried bicycles for 15 years here. 

Some of these have fenders, two that I saw had shorty chrome fenders, one had somewhat full length fenders that were speckled a bit with rust. None that I saw had any rust on the rims, bars, or stem, which is rare here especially if its used at the shore. 
Every one I saw was marked way too high to just buy it as a curiosity, most wanted $100 or so. If it were $50, I'd likely have brought it home just for a closer look. Being from Pacific it's not likely anything special but I'd like to know where they were getting the tires from.





This one was on CL, about a half hour out of Philly about a month or so ago.
The bike is nothing special but the old school tires got my attention, although I'm not after any
whitewall tires right now.
 The tires looked like Kenda K130's but with a bit more width and 'Allstate' on the side. 
A buddy of mine who collects old motorcycles said "Allstate" motorcycle tires are available again for vintage motorbikes, so maybe there's a connection there?  
Someone else said maybe they were sold in Kmart, but they too have been gone from here for quite a while, probably 10 years now. I only saw one with Allstate, the rest all had Carlisle Lightning Dart knockoffs. (I didn't notice if they had "Carlisle" on the sides or not, at a quick glance, I didn't see any sidewall brand. Those too were white sidewalls.


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## dirtman (Mar 24, 2021)

I should also note that the first one of these I saw was at one of the big box home centers, the one that sells Craftsman, right before Christmas one year. They had two or three chained up out front near the "Exit" door. I remember them because I thought it odd they were selling bikes, let alone bikes badges JC Higgins, but I didn't see any inside, at least no where I had been. The weather was cold and raining so I walked right by them thinking they were idiots for both leaving them outside and not putting them inside where folks would spot them BEFORE they checked out. I never saw bikes there again. It was around the time they were selling a few other 'retro' styled items from Sears, one being a tool box with the old Craftsman logo. I think it was their first Christmas with the Craftsman line on display.


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## SKPC (Mar 24, 2021)

In terms of looking correct, or that they must be "affordable" or for sure limits your options. If this dictates your decision,. then you are stuck with heavy, cheap tires and "the horror" of whitewalls.-did I say that?   Heavy tires slow you down considerably, but if just cruising along with zero hills or in the flats requiring little to no effort, then the heavier, cheaper(and heavy) tires will work just fine.  I would suggest looking for some lightweight (under 800 grams)  2.4 kevlar bead tires that may cost a bit of money, but you most likely will be happier if you saved a few more bucks and ponied up for some nice kevlar bead blackwalls.  Keith Bontrager said about bike components along the lines of...... "You can't have cheap, light and strong together at the same time".  But, you can have  "heavy,  weak and cheap", or "light, weak and cheap", "heavy, strong and cheap"  or alternatively  for the long run, "expensive, light, and strong"....This was said years ago and still holds true today!
   In terms of width....as fat as possible. Be aware nearly ALL 26"(559) tires have the width listed as total BS.


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## dirtman (Mar 25, 2021)

As I see it my only choices are either Duro/Kenda/Sunlite/Cheng Shin Goodyear diamond pattern blackwalls,  Schwinn bw "Westwind" style brick tread, or the reproduction chaintread tires available here. All others seam to only come in whitewall only or have a modern tread or style. 
I see three requirements in a balloon tire
1. Blackwall only
2. Look like it could of come on the bike when it was new
3. Price 

I consider bikes like these 'Occasional riders' and not a main source of transportation. On a retired income I can't justify spending more on the tires than I did on the bike. 
Once all the pandemic craze is over, if tires and other parts don't come down, I'll just part these out on fleabay. 

With what they want for tires, I'll just be using the new old stock Western Flyer tires on the CWC, Western Flyer, and maybe the Davis tires on the Westfield. The WF tires feel like new, their not hard or dry rotted at all. I'm not sure how old they are, but they say 
Western Auto Kansas City, MO on them. 
I unwrapped a set, the profile is alot like the Carlisle Lightning and they look super wide compared to the Asian made Goodyear tread tires.


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## bloo (Mar 25, 2021)

I don't know how old those Western Flyers are, but I bought a 26 inch set of them new in 1976 for my first 26 inch balooner. I was 11 years old and wanting fat balloon tires. I was extremely disappointed with them after mounting because I thought they looked too skinny. In my opinion they made the bike look almost like a middleweight parked next to my 24 inch Huffy ballooner with very old Allstate Safety Tread tires. In 1980, parked next to my best friend's beach cruiser with Lightning Darts, the difference was glaring. The good news or the bad news, depending on how you look at it, is that the tread never wore out. It wasn't for lack of trying.

I measured one of them last year, and they are not undersize so I guess it's all an optical illusion. Or, maybe they have grown due to all the cracking?




.


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## dirtman (Mar 25, 2021)

I had to go measure my Carlisle Lightning Darts on the Columbia. I get 58.28mm at about 25 psi, they're cracked a bit but mostly on the tread not so much on the sides. I don't have the WF tires on rims so taking a measurement wouldn't be a good comparison.
The WF tires are very similar in that they have a narrower tread band and huge sidewall area. The contact width is the same as the Carlisle tires, as are the 'corners'. They're so close in measurement that I'd venture to guess they used the same casing, or maybe the WF were made by Carlisle? They're the same tire that I took off the CWC wheels, but those were rotted beyond any chance of use, one tire was split on the corner and the tube had come out, the other had turned gummy in only one spot as if it had gotten soaked in oil or gas for a long time. 
Back in the day, around this area Carlisle tires were the most common, with Firestone or Allstate being the next most popular. Once in a while you would find a bike with something different on it. US Chain or Uniroyal tires were common on Schwinn's for some reason, I'm not sure why, and by the time I was old enough to mess with larger bikes, those tires were already old. 
I remember buying new Carlisle Lightnings as late as 1976 or so, but they were already hard to find. The knobby tread was more common for some reason. From what I remember, Carlisle, WF, Davis, and Firestone all had sort of a narrow tread but wide sidewalls. 
Funny thing is I never remember seeing any 'Goodyear' style tires back then, the local Goodyear dealer here sold Carlisle bike tires. 

For now, the way I see it is I already own the WF tires, so they'll get used on the '36? Western Flyer by CWC when I get the wheels done. I'll leave the Lightning Darts on the Columbia for now but need to find something period correct for the Westfield frame if I decide to build it. 
I was originally thinking of just selling the older WF tires and running only new tires so I could ride it without concern of ruining a vintage tire but for what tires are selling for, its cheaper to just run the tires I have.


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## bloo (Mar 25, 2021)

All I am saying is that the Western Flyers are going to look small next to Lightning Darts. It was hard to miss back in the day. Lightning Darts were still available here in the early 80s, whitewall or black. They were used on new reproduction bikes much more recently that that. The most recent runs had no Indian head, but were otherwise identical. The later runs may have been all whitewall, not sure about that. They were in production until the mid 90s at least.

Some time back a CABEr approached  Carlisle about having some made, and got nowhere. They had zero interest. The fact that you saw some on a brand new bike is very interesting and raises all sorts of questions, like "Who?" "Where?" "How? and "Can we get some?".


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## dirtman (Mar 25, 2021)

I know someone who inquired about having them resume making certain vintage tires and they were told that they sold out to the Chinese and they didn't have the molds, but I read elsewhere that as late as 2011, they still had the bike tire molds.
The problem is demand, even if they were to retool and start making just one version of the old tire, they'd likely sell a couple thousand and then the demand would be mostly satisfied. That's not enough to justify mass production. They would need to sell 100 times that many to make it worth while, and likely at a rather inflated price to cover he low volume.

These WF tires don't look that small to me, I can fit the Carlisle  inside one of the WF tires. Like the Carlisle, the tread band is narrow but the tire overall is wide and rounded. Looking at how these are designed, its likely why they ride so smooth.
On the Carlisle tires, with 25 psi, with me on the bike, its riding on the sidewalls. It takes nearly 50 psi, well over the limit to support my 300 or so and not sag or look flat.  Looking at the old nylon construction, I have little doubt they stretched some over the years.

I remember looking all over in the early 80's for a set of balloon tires and my only two choices were either Schwinn lug whitewalls or Carlisle lug whitewalls from another dealer, no one had blackwalls, the trend was 140 spoke lowrider bikes and they only stocked what those guys bought. I remember having to special order the Carlisle set back then. That was around 1983-84 or so. It wasn't until the later 90's when the Goodyear copies got common but by that time most of the local shops had closed up around here.


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## Superman1984 (Mar 29, 2021)

Ok I want to clarify something; at 300 lbs if you're running 2.125" tires at 25 psi that is stupid. I am 160 lbs & I don't run Any of my tires less than 30 psi because they're meant to support your weight. Not only that but generally bikes are meant for like 250 lb riders at max with the tires being inflated to recommended psi. I don't understand how you're trying to compare tires or your reasoning. Only fat bike tires should be run with low psi if you're on beach/desert sand or snow for the squish profile/foot print so they don't sink or as deep. Most tires can run 10 psi over max. I suggest lose some weight or rethink what you want/expect vs what you have


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## dirtman (Mar 29, 2021)

Your missing my point. 
The Carlisle tires are marked 30psi max, some of the Goodyear tread tires are marked 45 psi max. I can put 50 psi in the old Carlisle Lightnings and they still bulge under my weight. The Goodyear tread Duro tires don't bulge nearly as much. 
Its the tire and the way its made not just the weight. The Duro tires have thicker sidewalls, were as the Carlisle tires are like a rag. 
If I deflate the Duro or Cheng Shin tires they still support the weight of the bike when parked, yet if the Carlisle tires are flat, the tire folds over to one side and the rim hits the ground.  Yet the soft, spongy worn out Carlisle tires pedal obviously easier than the Asian made tires. At 45 psi the Cheng Shin tires bounce like a basket ball. In theory, the harder, less deformed tires should roll easier but its not the case.
I keep the Carlisles a 32 psi, in their condition, I don't dare go any higher. 

As to weight, I'm just over 6ft 3in tall, wear a size 17 boot, have a 42" waste and my 'ideal weight would be around 265 lbs. With boots and winter gear on I'm a bit over 300 lbs on the big scale down at the farm supply. My boots are probably 10 or 15 lbs of it, my Carharts are another 10 or so pounds, plus what ever is in my pockets at the time.
Its likely why I stick to heavier bikes, I've broken a few lightweights and a handful of cranks and such over the years.


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## Superman1984 (Mar 29, 2021)

dirtman said:


> Your missing my point.
> The Carlisle tires are marked 30psi max, some of the Goodyear tread tires are marked 45 psi max. I can put 50 psi in the old Carlisle Lightnings and they still bulge under my weight. The Goodyear tread Duro tires don't bulge nearly as much.
> Its the tire and the way its made not just the weight. The Duro tires have thicker sidewalls, were as the Carlisle tires are like a rag.
> If I deflate the Duro or Cheng Shin tires they still support the weight of the bike when parked, yet if the Carlisle tires are flat, the tire folds over to one side and the rim hits the ground.  Yet the soft, spongy worn out Carlisle tires pedal obviously easier than the Asian made tires. At 45 psi the Cheng Shin tires bounce like a basket ball. In theory, the harder, less deformed tires should roll easier but its not the case.
> ...



Ok so now I understand 100%. My apologies if I was coming off as a jerk. Wasn't meant that way.  I have never thought about bundling up like that for a ride & wouldn't think about the difference it makes. I normally wear converse all star chuck taylors when not in work boots. I guess I also assumed the Carlisle lightning darts were capable of the same psi when new. I am getting a middle weight that I intend to run the Columbia Superb white walls on if you'd like to see them once on? I never thought about looking to see how they foot print under weight. They seemed to have a softer sidewall but It has been a while since I rode on them. They kinda took a decent black set of flat lobdell style wheels off a huffy so I can BW vs WW. I find I like WWs more on my vintages. Not so much the clay & creme stuff. I wish I could find some lime green tires with WWs but so far nobody is making them in 26x2.125 or 3"


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## Superman1984 (Mar 29, 2021)

I want to do a 2 tone black & lime green build or a darker forrest/hunter green & lime green build with The Goodyear/Cheng Sheng WWs on a '46- late 50s ballooner.


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## dirtman (Mar 30, 2021)

One of the old tires I tossed, for some reason I think it was a Sears tire, was marked 25 psi max, it had a zig-zag tread down the center with 'diamond points' on the corners but it was as wide as the older Carlisle Lightnings on my Columbia. 
At first I had just figured those tires were just whooped from age and maybe being overinflated for a long time but they may just be a different generation of those tires. The inside of the tire casing on those is red, as are the tubes. I've seen that on a few other tires over the years but not recently. 
The bike is a 1949, so I have no idea how old those tires are, they could be original and just have survived all these years. 
Something else that gets me is that I always thought that the bike had lost its chrome over the years and the silver bits were just repainted but I slid one of the grips off the other day and the bars have no chrome at all, neither does the stem, cranks, or sprocket. Everything is just painted sort of a flat gray/tan color. 
with the worn areas showing bare steel. The rims are black with white pinstripes. The rims have been touched up but the fine pinstripe looks original, unlike the striping on the fenders and frame that looks to have been done by a 4 year old with whisk broom. 
What I intend to do is take it one part at a time and fix the issues. I likely won't repaint the bike but I will strip and refinish the bars and stem just to stop the rust that's coming through the paint from likely turning the bike upside down for service. 

The Western Flyer tires will get saved for the Western Flyer. Until I find something I like for the Columbia for the right price, then its keeping the old Carlisle tires. Its not and likely never be my daily rider so it doesn't really matter much. I did use it this morning to go to the store for a few things, but its not the most comfortable bike the way its set up now. I need to get a LONG seat post and deal with a bit of a pull to the right. But the thing rolls super easy for some reason, there's barely any hills here but even on the slight grade heading back to my place here its easy to get it going fast enough to the point where you have to really think about whether or not the old thing is going to be able to stop at the bottom of the hill down the road. (I turned the rear hub blue on my one bike a couple years ago but I was pushing it down the hill not just letting it coast). 
I didn't want to lockup the brake and skid the tire, or put a ton of force on the back wheel stopping so I sort of skipped the stop sign and took my chances around the turn without fully stopping. It was dark so I would have seen any headlights coming anyway. Going straight there means hitting a house, there is no right turn, just a guard rail, and the intersection is sand covered from the winter deicing. After I got home I thought about it and figured that wasn't the bike for that little trip. No lights, no reflectors, old spokes, old brakes, and tires with chunks missing and I had it cranked up to felt like 25 or 30 mph free rolling down a hill for a half mile and chose not to stop so as not to break anything or tear up the bike. Not to mention its 33° outside with 30-40 mile per hour wind gusts that were at my back. 
I'm glad it was dark, the thought of what it looks like to see an old gray hair man with a long white beard on a too small bike barreling down a hill with the look of concern on his face as the bike balks at slowing down under a 300lb rider. Every ride it looses a few more tread blocks off the rear tire and the spokes are paint over rust with a few that just aren't adjustable anymore. 
One thing that did come to mind is that if I did dump it, I'd probably scratch the brand new $14 saddle I put on it after getting tired of the vinyl covered steel pan that was on it. (It was nothing more than fake black leather glued to a formed steel pan with no springs.). I gave it a fresh black cruiser saddle for the time being while I fix up a vintage saddle for it. 

The rear tire has about 30 or so small blocks of tread missing now with casing threads showing. The sidewalls look like dried up desert. 
They hold air fine, infact they never need to be pumped  up, its sat for years and only lost a pound or two of air. I wish new tubes were that good. I did have the tires off it when I went through the bike for a relube, both tubes have more than 10 patches, of all sorts of styles and colors on the orange/red Miller branded inner tubes that are huge, at least as big as the tire, maybe a bit larger stuffed inside. They didn't leak, and I didn't have new tires for it so it all went back the way I found it for the time being. 

The bike actually makes an odd sound as it rolls, which I figure is the slightly crunchy tires over the asphalt road, its sort of like the sound a car makes over a grated bridge but not as pronounced. It gets really loud though free rolling downhill at night when all else is really quiet.


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## Superman1984 (Mar 30, 2021)

dirtman said:


> One of the old tires I tossed, for some reason I think it was a Sears tire, was marked 25 psi max, it had a zig-zag tread down the center with 'diamond points' on the corners but it was as wide as the older Carlisle Lightnings on my Columbia.
> At first I had just figured those tires were just whooped from age and maybe being overinflated for a long time but they may just be a different generation of those tires. The inside of the tire casing on those is red, as are the tubes. I've seen that on a few other tires over the years but not recently.
> The bike is a 1949, so I have no idea how old those tires are, they could be original and just have survived all these years.
> Something else that gets me is that I always thought that the bike had lost its chrome over the years and the silver bits were just repainted but I slid one of the grips off the other day and the bars have no chrome at all, neither does the stem, cranks, or sprocket. Everything is just painted sort of a flat gray/tan color.
> ...



Trust me I have been there with the exception of not that old, that gray & as long a beard. There is a hill in Ripley, W.V and you can probably hit 50 mph going down or close enough to make you clench up snug. I wore the bite off a coaster brake & a set of cheap rubber rear rim pads that were ghetto rigged. Stupid bet for a pack of cigs & beer at the bottom of the hill where the old bar used to be.  It goes into a curve with the guard rail & then about a 8 ft+ drop into some nasty briar patches/under brush. Scrawny teenage stupid fun


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Mar 30, 2021)

dirtman said:


> 6ft 3in tall, wear a size 17




Holy Crap, You must have quite the shoe budget. Of course you do not have a desk job rarely guys your size do. Im on my feet all day and I'm lucky to get a year out of my boots. Even quality mens pedals must get lost under your foot and a lot of toe rubs on the front tire  haha. Good luck with the tires and with shoe shopping.


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## dirtman (Mar 30, 2021)

Superman1984 said:


> Trust me I have been there with the exception of not that old, that gray & as long a beard. There is a hill in Ripley, W.V and you can probably hit 50 mph going down or close enough to make you clench up snug. I wore the bite off a coaster brake & a set of cheap rubber rear rim pads that were ghetto rigged. Stupid bet for a pack of cigs & beer at the bottom of the hill where the old bar used to be.  It goes into a curve with the guard rail & then about a 8 ft+ drop into some nasty briar patches/under brush. Scrawny teenage stupid fun



There's lots of those hills in WV, my family came from just east of Morgantown over near Bruceton Mills a while before I came about. 
I've spent time around Point Marion Pa and Morgantown myself some years ago myself. 
I did pass through Ripley once, we were all helping a buddy move from Columbus down to Beckley, I had borrowed a truck and trailer from work and he had a few beer drinking buddies to do the moving. He was originally from overseas, not at all familiar with W.V. We were on the old Turnpike and needed fuel, we got off on a side road, not even a proper exit, that had a sign saying "GAS" with an arrow. It was a dirt road off to the west of the southbound lane. The place was a 1/4 mile off the TP, sort of an old general store with two pumps out front. No pavement, just dirt and gravel. They had a small counter inside and they sold sandwiches. There were a few trucks parked outback. We pulled in, driving a 56 Mack with a pup trailer that burned gas. What I'll never forget is the truck ahead of us. It was an old Ford flat bed, with a guy sitting on the back facing backwards holding a huge chunk of wood with a chain attached. He was huge, bald and only wearing a pair of denim coveralls. The driver pulled up to the pump, hollered out the window, NOW!, and he swung that chunk of wood around and behind the rear tire. Apparently the truck didn't have any brakes and the place was on a steep hill. the whole time they were there the big guy didn't say a word, he just sat there staring back at us. The truck he was 'on', didn't have any back window and no sign of tail lights. It wasn't super old at the time but it was super rough. 
They filled up, went inside and paid and were off. As they turned to go back to the highway they sort of hopped up onto the stone road bouncing the truck out of the parking lot, in doing so they tossed the 'brake man' off the side, but they never stopped. He got up and just stood there like it was no big deal. We got our fuel, paid and headed back too, as we got back to the Turnpike we came across them driving real slow headed back to the fuel stop shouting out the window into the ditches looking for their lost passenger. I hollered that he's back at the store but they ignored me. We got back on the TP and went on our way. My buddy, who had moved here from West Germany only a few years prior, had a blank stare on his face and then kept asking what Beckley was like. He was going there to meet a  woman he had been writing to for a few months. He had just finished school and was heading to get married to someone he never met face to face. (As far as I know they're still together). 

I haven't been through that area in a long while, probably 20 years or so now.


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## Superman1984 (Mar 30, 2021)

dirtman said:


> There's lots of those hills in WV, my family came from just east of Morgantown over near Bruceton Mills a while before I came about.
> I've spent time around Point Marion Pa and Morgantown myself some years ago myself.
> I did pass through Ripley once, we were all helping a buddy move from Columbus down to Beckley, I had borrowed a truck and trailer from work and he had a few beer drinking buddies to do the moving. He was originally from overseas, not at all familiar with W.V. We were on the old Turnpike and needed fuel, we got off on a side road, not even a proper exit, that had a sign saying "GAS" with an arrow. It was a dirt road off to the west of the southbound lane. The place was a 1/4 mile off the TP, sort of an old general store with two pumps out front. No pavement, just dirt and gravel. They had a small counter inside and they sold sandwiches. There were a few trucks parked outback. We pulled in, driving a 56 Mack with a pup trailer that burned gas. What I'll never forget is the truck ahead of us. It was an old Ford flat bed, with a guy sitting on the back facing backwards holding a huge chunk of wood with a chain attached. He was huge, bald and only wearing a pair of denim coveralls. The driver pulled up to the pump, hollered out the window, NOW!, and he swung that chunk of wood around and behind the rear tire. Apparently the truck didn't have any brakes and the place was on a steep hill. the whole time they were there the big guy didn't say a word, he just sat there staring back at us. The truck he was 'on', didn't have any back window and no sign of tail lights. It wasn't super old at the time but it was super rough.
> They filled up, went inside and paid and were off. As they turned to go back to the highway they sort of hopped up onto the stone road bouncing the truck out of the parking lot, in doing so they tossed the 'brake man' off the side, but they never stopped. He got up and just stood there like it was no big deal. We got our fuel, paid and headed back too, as we got back to the Turnpike we came across them driving real slow headed back to the fuel stop shouting out the window into the ditches looking for their lost passenger. I hollered that he's back at the store but they ignored me. We got back on the TP and went on our way. My buddy, who had moved here from West Germany only a few years prior, had a blank stare on his face and then kept asking what Beckley was like. He was going there to meet a  woman he had been writing to for a few months. He had just finished school and was heading to get married to someone he never met face to face. (As far as I know they're still together).
> ...



Yeah we're a different breed in a lot of ways. Some better & some worse. I always try to think outside the box/be a problem solver when I can. I have seen Rednecks & I have seen Hillbillies. Being more of a Hillbilly those Rednecks got things to learn hahaha.


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