# Early Boardtrack Racer?



## nj_shore (Feb 13, 2018)

As I am going through the rafters, I came upon this early bicycle I bought a while ago.  
Any information would be appreciated..  No head badge.


----------



## fordmike65 (Feb 13, 2018)

I've seen these BB cutouts on Great Western built bikes. Maybe a clue?


----------



## hellobuddy (Feb 13, 2018)

Is there a reason why all unknown bikes are now "racers"?


----------



## nj_shore (Feb 13, 2018)

hellobuddy said:


> Is there a reason why all unknown bikes are now "racers"?




Let me know what I should put as the thread Title.  Would like something constructive.


----------



## carlitos60 (Feb 14, 2018)

It's a Columbia Made!!
Nothing Special,,,Roadster Maybe!!


----------



## gben (Feb 14, 2018)

hellobuddy said:


> Is there a reason why all unknown bikes are now "racers"?




    Yes there is a reason. It is because so many of the participants in collecting old bicycles are that desperate to own one because it means prestige for their ego and money in their wallet, which means that many of those into collecting things are in it because of prestige and money, which is sort of sad.  It is the same way for collectors of any material objects, cameras, motorcycles, automobiles, pocket-knives....

    The other reason would be ignorance. For instance in the thread I started about my circa-1900 Pierce I wondered out-loud if it was a racing bicycle because it was a "fixie", because I was not educated enough to know that it was normal for bicycles in 1900 to be fixed-gear and that a coaster rear-hub was a luxury or extra-cost option.

    So take your pick.....


----------



## mongeese (Feb 14, 2018)

Also what is possible is that it is a green mistake. Harmless actually. Should not offend anyone. Another idea is that a roadster could of been used to race (probably lost) because the bike rider could not afford an actual bike made to race competitively.


----------



## hoofhearted (Feb 14, 2018)

nj_shore said:


> Let me know what I should put as the thread Title.  Would like something constructive.




*I like your Thread Title, nj_shore .......

....... patric*

*

 



*

*

 




*


----------



## mongeese (Feb 14, 2018)

Warning : CLICHE ALERT

 A great way to learn is making mistakes if the people around accept and remember their own. 
 Also the best teachers are those who remember what it was like when they did not know what they know now. 
Great teachers go back to the time when they were not experts in their field and transfer the information as if they were learning it all over again. Then they learn more than they thought they knew.


----------



## hoofhearted (Feb 14, 2018)

gben said:


> *Yes there is a reason .... so many of the participants in collecting old bicycles are* *that desperate  *
> *to own one because it means prestige for their ego and money in their wallet,* which means that many of those into collecting things are in it because of prestige and money, which is sort of sad.  It is the same way for collectors of any material objects, cameras, motorcycles, automobiles, pocket-knives....
> 
> *The other reason would be ignorance.*  For instance in the thread I started about my circa-1900 Pierce I wondered out-loud if it was a racing bicycle because it was a "fixie", because I was not educated enough to know that it was normal for bicycles in 1900 to be fixed-gear and that a coaster rear-hub was a luxury or extra-cost option.
> ...




*Left out wisdom  ...... thinking and acting based on experience ... knowledge ... understanding ... insight and common sense...  *.... list could go on ......


----------



## nj_shore (Feb 14, 2018)

Hi Patric, wheel base is ~45".


----------



## Freqman1 (Feb 14, 2018)

gben said:


> Yes there is a reason. It is because so many of the participants in collecting old bicycles are that desperate to own one because it means prestige for their ego and money in their wallet, which means that many of those into collecting things are in it because of prestige and money, which is sort of sad.  It is the same way for collectors of any material objects, cameras, motorcycles, automobiles, pocket-knives....
> 
> The other reason would be ignorance. For instance in the thread I started about my circa-1900 Pierce I wondered out-loud if it was a racing bicycle because it was a "fixie", because I was not educated enough to know that it was normal for bicycles in 1900 to be fixed-gear and that a coaster rear-hub was a luxury or extra-cost option.
> 
> So take your pick.....



You forgot choice "C" Because they like it and have an aesthetic appreciation of these machines. V/r Shawn


----------



## sam (Feb 14, 2018)

Can't say what it is but if you need BB cups a 1970s low end Swedish Crescent will screw right in


----------



## nj_shore (Feb 14, 2018)

I rarely, rarely, strip these older bicycles but I can't see any original paint.  Blasting it tomorrow morning, and I'll post some better pictures

Any criticism is welcome.


----------



## bikejunk (Feb 14, 2018)

My first raceing bike was not even Columbus tubing let alone double butted Reynolds- lots of early road races were riders riding hard on really most anything ---track racing needed frames with close wheelbases (improves handling)   the rake of this frame excludes it from those designed for track work


----------



## hellobuddy (Feb 14, 2018)

hellobuddy said:


> Is there a reason why all unknown bikes are now "racers"?




I didn't mean anything negative about my comment, it's just something I have noticed as a pattern. I taught it was just an attention grabber. but I am sorry if it was an inappropriate comment on my part
might be a racer, might not, I personally don't know.
but the title did catch my attention, so I guess it is a good title


----------



## hoofhearted (Feb 14, 2018)

bikejunk said:


> My first raceing bike was not even Columbus tubing let alone double butted Reynolds- lots of early road races were riders riding hard on really most anything ---track racing needed frames with close wheelbases (improves handling)   the rake of this frame excludes it from those designed for track work




*bikejunk ... what I know about racing-frames ... road or track ... 
rolls around in my mind like a B.B. in a boxcar.

Thank you for your input !!

Any thoughts on the next manipulated foto ?
Original nj_shore  photo is re-presented as second document.     *

*Thank you - bikejunk ......*

*..... patric*


----------



## dnc1 (Feb 14, 2018)

hoofhearted said:


> *bikejunk ... what I know about racing-frames ... road or track ...
> rolls around in my mind like a B.B. in a boxcar.
> 
> Thank you for your input !!
> ...



I think you are correct re. the fork being "tweaked" Patric. 
Perhaps a little over enthusiastic straightening following a frontal impact?
Can't see any other reason for it being bent forwards. 
Reminds me of several bikes my friends and I had as kids after we'd attempted to fix them.


----------



## corbettclassics (Feb 15, 2018)

gben said:


> Yes there is a reason. It is because so many of the participants in collecting old bicycles are that desperate to own one because it means prestige for their ego and money in their wallet, which means that many of those into collecting things are in it because of prestige and money, which is sort of sad.  It is the same way for collectors of any material objects, cameras, motorcycles, automobiles, pocket-knives....
> 
> The other reason would be ignorance. For instance in the thread I started about my circa-1900 Pierce I wondered out-loud if it was a racing bicycle because it was a "fixie", because I was not educated enough to know that it was normal for bicycles in 1900 to be fixed-gear and that a coaster rear-hub was a luxury or extra-cost option.
> 
> So take your pick.....




I think that owning a Track Racer is about the purest form of a racing bike you can get.  They're simple and look incredibly fast just sitting there if they are presented properly for display.

I remember when I started to collect the track racers about 40 yrs ago.  I did it because I was time trialling and over in the U.K is where lots of time trialling was going on.  Guys like Martyn Pyn and many others were racing on Track bikes to do time trialling.  Even the hill climbers were using the fixed gear because they were light and fixed gear has a tendency to pull you up hill faster. 

I started to collect different bikes like Bob Jackson, Falcon, Butler, Carlton, Flying Scot and had about 35 or so in about a few years.  I sold almost all of them to come down here to Los Angeles from Canada and the feeling was still there to own more track bikes.  It's all I ever rode and I enjoyed displaying them at shows.  The track bike is always a head turner at any bike show.  Track racing is the most exciting venue to be in and it's a lot more fun than being at the Tour De France.  Ive been to the Tour and also the 6-Day races in Europe and I can tell you that track racing is by far the most exciting.

I think this might be why people all want to own a track machine because it's the purest form of speed.  I've owned about 140 track machines because I love the simplicity of some of these bikes. Some get kind of weird like the Flying Gate for instance but they are all beautiful.  Why wouldn't you want to own one because for me there's no better bike to own. 

So, I understand why people want to say they own a "Racer" and categorize their bike as a racer because they are the best .... hands down!!!  But many of these bikes aren't really Factory Racers but sort of resemble one.  Anyone can make the common mistake by calling their bike a racer when it's really a roadster.  Just like Mongese said that the longer you're in this game that you learn from mistakes.  The longer you do this the more you realize what you didn't know back then.  I've made mistakes and after 40 yrs I'm still learning.  What I did learn was that when you call something a Factory Racer ( like I do ) then you should have something to back it up to confirm it really is.  Model numbers on bikes are what will always tell you what you've got.

It can be fun having a small museum of bicycles like many of the guys here have.  I had a museum at my house but mine was to really show the evolution of 100 yrs of racing.  Mine went back to the 1870's with the Boneshakers, the Highwheel era and from there up to the 1970s to show how we evolved.  It wasn't really ego or prestige as said earlier but for me it was about the history of racing. All these bicycle manufacturers had their own idea how to make their racer faster. If Torchy Peden raced a CCM Flyer then I had to have one.  If Eddie Bald rode a Columbia Model 44 then I had to have one.  If Earl Kiser raced on a Stearns then I had to have one and on and on.  I've always liked the best racers.

Nothing wrong with calling your bike a racer to find out what it is, if it's a fixie for instance.  I think that's perfeclly fine like gben did by calling his Pierce a racer because it was fixed and everyone will jump in and help determine exactly what it is.  But some people love to call everything they find a racer and try to present it or, sell it that way with no documentation to back it up.  You don't want to sell something you're calling a racer to someone when you don't know yourself that it's really a racer.  That's not fair to the buyer who he gets it and it turns out not to be a real racer.  He has trust in you and your knowledge.

Well, I need to stop babbling here and get to work..

As always ... your friend in cycling
Cheers
corbettclassics


----------



## bikejunk (Feb 15, 2018)

wold like to see the frame and fork with wheels -to see how she sits - about a week ago I purchased a 1894 Victor flyer that was on ebay presented without the front wheel -it just looked like yet another 28 inch frame TOC bike ---with a front wheel it is a tall headstock short seatpost masterpiece - I will have some photos of it next week


----------



## dnc1 (Feb 16, 2018)

Didn't know you were an exponent of the dark and mysterious world of UK time trialling back in the day!
Many sporting clubs over here insisted on fixed gear machines for club rides, purely for the reason that no-one can brake suddenly in front of you when riding as a peloton.
I frequently ride "fixies", in fact I prefer it, the metronomic ease and rythym, like an endless mantra for your legs!
Couldn't agree more with your thoughts below.







corbettclassics said:


> I think that owning a Track Racer is about the purest form of a racing bike you can get.  They're simple and look incredibly fast just sitting there if they are presented properly for display.
> 
> I remember when I started to collect the track racers about 40 yrs ago.  I did it because I was time trialling and over in the U.K is where lots of time trialling was going on.  Guys like Martyn Pyn and many others were racing on Track bikes to do time trialling.  Even the hill climbers were using the fixed gear because they were light and fixed gear has a tendency to pull you up hill faster.
> 
> ...




"Looking fast when standing still", one of my favourite sayings.
I'm still looking for a genuine "racer", everyday is a school day when it comes to this subject, I'm still at kindergarten lol.


----------



## corbettclassics (Feb 16, 2018)

I have just what you’re looking for ... a “genuine racer”. Many actually!


----------



## gben (Feb 17, 2018)

corbettclassics said:


> I have just what you’re looking for ... a “genuine racer”. Many actually!




     It is interesting to look at how the 1890s roadsters were like the bikes sold as over-the-counter racers, the racers mainly differing in lighter frame tubes. After 1900 roadsters quickly got more and more equipment which changed their functionality and appearance, but track racing bicycles looked pretty much the same from the 1890s-on.

     Growing up with British motorcycles taught me things that apply to bicycles. With the old Norton motorcycles there were the roadsters, which may have had technology developed in racing, but they were mass-produced for the public and road use and showed it. Next there were over-the-counter racers which were made in batches of fifty to one-hundred and were sold to those who were actually going to race them as amateurs or to try and make money(LOL), and at the top of the heap were "works" racing bikes, which were custom-built for the factories own riders, which meant a half-dozen to a dozen were built in total. Works racers would have parts that were not available to anyone outside the factory, not for-sale period until maybe they escaped into the public domain after they were well-used or obsoleted by newer equipment.

      The percentage of over-the counter racers makes it unlikely that the bike you find laying at an estate or garage sale is going to be a racing bike, and it is almost impossible to find a "works" bike that was raced by the factory, all have been in the hands of collectors or museums for decades.


----------

