# Hawthorne All American Memory Lane Score



## Classicriders (Oct 30, 2010)

Just finished detialing this one out.  Original tail light lenses, wiring, and inside of tank looks like battery was never installed!  
This was the top of the line Hawthorne in 1941 with fork lock, thick paded leather seat with chrome chassis, springer, white wall tires, head and tail light operate off same switch.
I will gradually upgade the crank, bars, chainguard, and stem with nicer originals.


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## militarymonark (Oct 30, 2010)

that springer is the loudest one i have ever heard and it doesn't get any quieter


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## SailorMac (Oct 30, 2010)

Super sweet score!


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## old hotrod (Oct 30, 2010)

Very cool CR...


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## bricycle (Oct 30, 2010)

I think she's great just the way she is...


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## 37fleetwood (Oct 31, 2010)

very cool but maybe it would look better with a little less tungsten lighting.


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## PCHiggin (Oct 31, 2010)

Very nice find,the rack and peak fenders are sweet.Is it a CWC bike?


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## Adamtinkerer (Oct 31, 2010)

PCHiggin said:


> Very nice find,the rack and peak fenders are sweet.Is it a CWC bike?




That's a Snyder springer, and if I remember what Phil said correctly, some Snyder bikes used CWC shockmaster forks, but he'd never seen a cw frame w/a Snyder fork. Also, I've seen a few rechromed 'throwing star' chainrings on ebay, I picked up one for mine for $29, looks great!


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## RMS37 (Nov 1, 2010)

*Is it a Snyder or a CWC?*

First of all...another awesome bike! Second, I hope it is a Snyder built frame....

The Hawthorne All American is something of a bike unto itself. I’ve collected photographs of about a dozen All Americans from eBay sales and other bikes sites over the past few years. All of them are similar but there are small detail differences that beg questions about their production. The foremost question is; were the frames produced by both CWC and H.P. Snyder like the top-of-the-line Bent-Tank and 5-Bar Hawthorne Zep models that preceeded them.

Some of the features that would help answer the question are obscured in the photos I have studied and the only frame I have examined in person is one I own that is a CWC produced frame. Unfortunately, my bike was purchased as a bare frame with only a Shockmaster springer but no sheet metal to study. The other oddity about my frame is that it badged as a Western Flyer and has a serial number and tall strut Shockmaster that imply it is a 1942 bike. The best rational explanation is that at the time it was made, production and orders were in the throes of WW2 shutdown and a late frame ended up going out the door to Western Autos instead of MW, possibly as a diminished feature bike.

Anyway the only bike I have found to date that provides evidence that Snyder also produced these bikes is one that turned up as really only a frame on the Ratrod site several months back.

My assumption is that Snyder built frames will have a curved upper fender brace instead of the straight one used by CWC. This has proven true to date for all the other Hawthornes I have studied and is likely to hold true for the All American frames as well. Perhaps it is the fault of the airfoil rack used on these bikes but many of the bikes I have photographs of do not present clear views of this hallmark. The other piece of information that should divide the bikes into two camps is the serial number and that is what led me to categorize the Ratrod bike as a Snyder product.

That bike; 04 EH over 98452 over 446, a typical serial number for a Snyder frame, can be viewed here: 

http://ratrodbikes.com/forum/search.php?author_id=4106&sr=posts

I asked the person that posted the bike for a photograph of the fender bridge but he has dropped off the map and all I have are the frustrating photos that do not show the bridge. (It is also interesting to note that even when AA’s are shorn of their original seat, they seem to regenerate one of two layer chocolate cake proportions)

I promised myself I would limit the wordiness of this post before inquiring about the shape of the bridge and the nature of the serial number for this bike but I guess I blew that…..


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## Classicriders (Nov 1, 2010)

Based on the serial # this is a H.P. Snyder built frame.  The number is preceeded by the letters "EH".  There is only one rear fender brace at the bottom, the braces for the rack double as the top fender brace.  The interesting part is that the fork lock is "Cleveland Welding" and is marked as such.  So we have a Cleveland Welding fork lock on a Snyder fork.  This fork lock was in fact designed by Wise and I have the patent drawing for it in my files.  So it's a Wise designed lock, manufactured by Cleveland Welding, and installed on a H.P. Snyder built bike.  The discoveries never end!


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## RMS37 (Nov 1, 2010)

Actually I was asking if the upper rear frame bridge that runs from seat stay to seat stay is a straight tube or an arched one. There are several other CWC/Snyder things to look at on the frame but that is the one I am most curious about.


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## Classicriders (Nov 2, 2010)

The bridge is curved.


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## RMS37 (Nov 2, 2010)

YES! This, (and the unmistakable serial number pattern) confirm the answer to one of the questions I have been chasing for a long time. It also adds one more bike to the data that suggests CWC didn’t supply bikes with Snyder springers but Snyders can go either way.

I’ll toss out another interesting observation about the Hawthorne “Specials” that I have found. 

I’ve collected data on the original 36-37 Zeps, the 38-39 Bent tank Zeps, the 39½-40 5-Bar Zeps, and the 40-41 All Americans. These were the top-of-the-line Montgomery Ward steel offerings and with the exception of the first version, all were produced by both CWC and Snyder. I am confident that the easiest way to separate them is by the shape of the upper rear fender bridge; CWC used a straight tubular bridge and the Snyder built frames followed that companies practice and used an arched bridge. All of these premium models are different but in many cases, the frame is only one of the features that varies by manufacturer, and to restore one correctly from a bare frame you need to find the correct mix of parts. 

Obviously finding the correct parts is not a problem CR will have to deal with but another interesting thing I have found from the serial numbers I have been able to record is that the Snyder built versions have an additional three-digit serial number below the standard Snyder serial number. On the earliest Zeps that were only Snyder supplied, the three-digit number is the only BB stamping. I believe these are probably sequential serial numbers exclusive to these models and hint at the total production of them. CWC didn’t seem to care as much about their contributions as they do not have an extra serial stamping.

Again, this is a great find and while I suppose I could even be a bit more excited if it were my bike, the confirmation of the curved bridge is enough to keep me going for a while.

Best,

Phil


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## Vintage Velo (Nov 4, 2010)

CWC and Snyder must have had a good working relationship as I have a Snyder built zep that also has the CWC fork lock manufactured by wise for CWC. The keys say wise concentric lock, but the body says cleveland welding company. Vintage Velo


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## RMS37 (Nov 4, 2010)

The good working relationship might have been natural or it may be due to “good parenting” on the part of Montgomery Ward. Both companies sold a large percentage of their product through MW and it appears that many of the Hawthorne models were conceived as something that could be built by both companies working in unison and sharing parts were practical and using their own supply channels where that would be more efficient.


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## RMS37 (Nov 4, 2010)

This is a good place to add that I’ll have my 38 CWC Zep at the shop gathering next week. It’s in pieces but you’ll be able to see some of the frame and parts differences …especially if you are bringing your Zep for the ride or even just for show and tell comparison.


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