# Military Columbia -  WWII



## frampton (Oct 13, 2014)

Just found this bike and after doing a little research I believe it to be a legitimate WWII example. I know there are members that are well versed on this topic. Any input is welcome and appreciated.

Both hubs are Eclipse / Morrow. Rear is date coded M-3. Third quarter of 1943.

Serial number is:  MG89652.

Frame welds look unfinished to speed production?

Bottom bracket area is reinforced.

One pedal has wood blocks.

Whatcha  think?


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## frampton (Oct 13, 2014)

More pictures.


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## jkent (Oct 13, 2014)

I am far from an expert but I have never seen that reinforced bottom bracket like that on a military bike before.
And I have never seen that sprocket used on a military bike. The sprocket looks like a mid fifties Columbia bicycle.
There are parts of the bike that do look right but there are other issues I see tat would kind of concern me. 
Both fenders I believe are incorrect. It should have the gothic / peaked fenders as I have never seen the curved or rounded off fenders on a military bike.
Can you post better pictures of the rear drop out area / chain adjusters. and a picture of the serial # 
The seat is also incorrect.
JKent


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## dave the wave (Oct 13, 2014)

check the tires and see if they say "War" on them


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## frampton (Oct 13, 2014)

Tires do not say "war".


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## MrColumbia (Oct 13, 2014)

It's an intriguing bike. A lot looks legit but some that looks out of place as previously stated. Sprocket not one I've ever seen on a Columbia of any era let alone a military model. Some parts may have been replaced over time but one would think if continuously used it would have been "civilianized" over the years. Could be an older very good "fake but my gut says real. I would not worry about tires as those are commonly replaced, war tires were made of inferior rubber and did not last. They were also used on civilian wartime bikes so that would not prove anything anyway. 

Johan will chime in and let us know for sure.


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## MrColumbia (Oct 13, 2014)

Looking more at the pictures and a key may be the grips. Definitely not WWII Military. Are they painted exactly like the bars and the rest of the bike? Painted at all suggests a complete paint over on the bike at some time. Still could be a WWII bike that someone tried to keep military even after going into civilian use. 


It also could be a 1942 "G" civilian bike that has been faked and an "M" was added to the serial number.


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## frampton (Oct 13, 2014)

MrColumbia said:


> Looking more at the pictures and a key may be the grips. Definitely not WWII Military. Are they painted exactly like the bars and the rest of the bike? Painted at all suggests a complete paint over on the bike at some time. Still could be a WWII bike that someone tried to keep military even after going into civilian use.
> 
> 
> It also could be a 1942 "G" civilian bike that has been faked and an "M" was added to the serial number.




The grips are black rubber. They are very dirty.  The "M" and "G" font look the same and of equal depth.


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## frampton (Oct 13, 2014)

I found this picture on the net of another WWII Columbia. Looks like the "MG" is more lightly stamped then the serial number. As it is on my frame.


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## MrColumbia (Oct 13, 2014)

The serial number looks right. Numbers out of alignment is the way it should be. The welded on frame plate is interesting. A faker probably would bolt one on but the military did too. Just not sure but my gut still says real.


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## stingrayjoe (Oct 13, 2014)

*Fender braces*

It is indeed a very interesting bike with what appears to be legit parts on. It has the flat fender braces. Has the very front one been replaced? Can't tell from the photo but it looks like a Wald? Are the braces factory riveted to the fenders?  Either way I like it! (If anyone cares about my 2 cents...LOL!)


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## frampton (Oct 13, 2014)

stingrayjoe said:


> It is indeed a very interesting bike with what appears to be legit parts on. It has the flat fender braces. Has the very front one been replaced? Can't tell from the photo but it looks like a Wald? Are the braces factory riveted to the fenders?  Either way I like it! (If anyone cares about my 2 cents...LOL!)





Yes, the front brace differs from the other 3 flat braces. It is riveted on but not with the normal type rivets. It looks like the rivets were hand peened. The rear flat brace has been welded to the inside of the fender. She had a hard life.


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## izee2 (Oct 13, 2014)

Now ya got me thinkin....

   Early 42' bikes had a curved down tube. Not sure when they went to the straight one but it was sometime late in 42'. Johan has the break in the serial numbers somewhere where this occurred. So this might be ok.  The rims look to be from a Huffman..I believe that the Columbias used a drop center rim. The fenders should be peaked. Perhaps they are Huffman also?  The bottom bracket repair.... Military? who knows. There is a couple of truly non original parts...crank, ring.   After 70 years ya can expect repairs and swapped parts.  I would say im about 85% as to being original but still have a couple questions. Hopefully the experts can fill in the blanks. With all that said. If you were to sell it, let me know. I would be interested. 

  My 2 cents.   
  Tom


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## frampton (Oct 13, 2014)

izee2 said:


> Now ya got me thinkin....
> 
> Early 42' bikes had a curved down tube. Not sure when they went to the straight one but it was sometime late in 42'. Johan has the break in the serial numbers somewhere where this occurred. So this might be ok.  The rims look to be from a Huffman..I believe that the Columbias used a drop center rim. The fenders should be peaked. Perhaps they are Huffman also?  The bottom bracket repair.... Military? who knows. There is a couple of truly non original parts...crank, ring.   After 70 years ya can expect repairs and swapped parts.  I would say im about 85% as to being original but still have a couple questions. Hopefully the experts can fill in the blanks. With all that said. If you were to sell it, let me know. I would be interested.
> 
> ...





Quite possible that parts were interchanged if these bikes were used on base. Years ago I would visit Boeing Surplus in Washington. They always had a large amount of beat up Worksman bikes and parts that were used in the assembly plant for sale. It was apparent that some of the carcasses were parts doners to keep other bikes rideable.


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## johan willaert (Oct 14, 2014)

At first glance I would say an original WW2 Columbia Army model, number looks OK!

The re-inforcement is interesting and was added later on, no doubt...

Front fender looks like a Huffman model, which is possible as parts got mixed up along the way...

Chainring is not military and a replacement, as are the handlebar grips.

Pedal with wooden block is WW2, other one I don't know

Nice bike!!


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## frampton (Oct 14, 2014)

Thank you everyone for your insight and information.


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## MrColumbia (Oct 14, 2014)

Personally I would look for a correct front sprocket to replace the one on it now that detracts from the overall appearance. Correct original military grips are going for stupid money right now but are nearly identical to the prewar Elgin style that is reproduced and available for cheap money. Just a different color. Get  a pair of black ones or paint a pair od green. Just two changes and this will look so much better. The rest may be period alterations and are now part of the bike. Leave those alone. 

Its a great bike, have fun with it.


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