# Phantom Tail light issue



## Rich404 (Oct 20, 2015)

On my Black Phantom the light is constantly shorting out. When I turn the mounting screws slightly tightening or loosening the light it will either turn on or off. When the light is on I could go for a ride and it will suddenly turn off again. If I tap the rear rack just above the light unit the light will sometimes flicker. This has been ongoing for years and I do sometimes rely on my lights for night riding.

Does anyone know a fix for this?

-Rich.


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## bricycle (Oct 20, 2015)

Do you have the ball bearing switch (braking) or the on / off switch type?


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## Rich404 (Oct 20, 2015)

bricycle said:


> Do you have the ball bearing switch (braking) or the on / off switch type?




on/off lever switch.

it is the 1990's Schwinn Reproduction type.

-Rich.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Oct 20, 2015)

Rich404 said:


> on/off lever switch.
> 
> it is the 1990's Schwinn Reproduction type.
> 
> -Rich.



Check all your contacts and soder points. Then check the part the bulb screws into to see if it's loose. Take the unit off and screw the screws in to see if they are coming in contact with anything inside the unit and causing it to ground out. Maybe try some contact cleaner in the switch itself. Check all the insulated parts as well... taking it off the bike and messing with it a little you should be able to track it down.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## bricycle (Oct 20, 2015)

yea, prob just bulb contact.


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## 2jakes (Oct 21, 2015)

Rich404 said:


> On my Black Phantom the light is constantly shorting out. When I turn the mounting screws slightly tightening or loosening the light it will either turn on or off. When the light is on I could go for a ride and it will suddenly turn off again. If I tap the rear rack just above the light unit the light will sometimes flicker. This has been ongoing for years and I do sometimes rely on my lights for night riding.
> 
> Does anyone know a fix for this?
> 
> -Rich.




I also own a Schwinn 90s Phantom.  And as Brian pointed out, it’s probably just the contacts.


I took off the light unit to install new batteries,
before I put the light back under the bike rack, let me show you what I found. 

I have installed the new batteries & the switch is on, but no lights working.





I'm using the tool to act as the conductor simulating the metal bike rack to make the connection & the light is on.




The light will stay on consistently until I turn it off.

When I install the light back on to the bike rack, it will work, but the slightest jar when I’m riding will cause the
light to flicker or turn off.
 Pressing on the rack causes the light to turn back on sometimes.
Tightening the screws sometimes works.
And sometimes, the light will work fine with no adjustments.

I believe the light is working as it should but the set-up is 1950s . 
The same thing with the front fender light. But this is just my experience.
Others may not have this problem at all.


Edit: I have a 1900s kerosene bicycle lamp. I‘m working on installing a new lamp
light that is small enough to fit inside the lamp. It cannot be seen from the outside but 
it works great to light the front lens & the colorful green & red  lenses on the sides of this lamp.




It might not be 100% original lighting, 
but at night, who cares !


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Oct 21, 2015)

2jakes said:


> I also own a Schwinn 90s Phantom.  And as Brian pointed out, it’s probably just the contacts.
> 
> 
> I took off the light unit to install new batteries,
> ...



I was wondering if it needed the rack to complete the circuit. My ball bearing one didn't. ...ok well...take some sand paper and clean off some paint where the tabs mount to the underside of rack. This will give you a cleaner and better contact surface for the light to work properly. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## 2jakes (Oct 21, 2015)

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> I was wondering if it needed the rack to complete the circuit. My ball bearing one didn't. ...ok well...take some sand paper and clean off some paint where the tabs mount to the underside of rack. This will give you a cleaner and better contact surface for the light to work properly.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk




It’s probably not the rack directly that is needed to complete the circuit.
But pressing on the rack will cause the light to react.

So you need to check whatever is beneath that acts as the conductor.


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## OldHarley (Oct 21, 2015)

2jakes said:


> I also own a Schwinn 90s Phantom.  And as Brian pointed out, it’s probably just the contacts.
> 
> 
> I took off the light unit to install new batteries,
> ...


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## 2jakes (Oct 21, 2015)

OldHarley said:


> *​Glad you posted pictures, we all learn from others. I ‘m not trying to be a jerk with my comments, but I am aware that a lot of folks on this site...how can I say...some seem to not be willing to freely share their considerable knowledge/information. OH*



*



While I appreciate your comments outlined in red & if you state that you are not trying to be a jerk, I believe you.

But since you were not  present when I conducted this. You have no choice but to write:

 “I think - - I believe...."

Let me reassure you that the rear battery was not installed backwards. 

I know this for a fact !


**But I’m glad you took the time. 

One thing I will disagree with you is about the folks here on the C.A.B.E.
**
There are a lot of folks on this site that are more than willing to freely share their
considerable knowledge/information. 

This I also know for a fact ! 


  Welcome to the Forum !
*
jake


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## OldHarley (Oct 22, 2015)

2jakes, Thanks for the welcome!

It just appeared from your first photo that both batteries were installed with the + toward the rear of the light is why I said "I think"

BTW, I agree that many members are helpful, but I have noticed in my short time here that many questions posted never get a definitive answer.  Hopefully I am wrong about that, but it is just my observation so far.

OH


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## rustjunkie (Oct 22, 2015)

I'd check the wire that's coiled up in the taillight. That wire is for the stoplight switch. From what I remember these had a little piece of the insulation left on the end of that wire when they were new, maybe it's gone or there's enough wire showing to cause trouble. If you're getting contact there I doubt the light will work right.


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## Jeff54 (Oct 22, 2015)

rustjunkie said:


> I'd check the wire that's coiled up in the taillight. That wire is for the stoplight switch. From what I remember these had a little piece of the insulation left on the end of that wire when they were new, maybe it's gone or there's enough wire showing to cause trouble. If you're getting contact there I doubt the light will work right.
> 
> []




That would seem to me as most likely problem. As the front and rear connection brackets should be connected to the whole housing It does not require the body of bike to make ground so, if you shorted across them to connect the ground to side of bulb, then something between them is not making contact. A rivet or weld has oxidized from electrolysis, and slapping it makes a temporary contact.

Exposing metal on the rack may not be a good idea as that may create a constant electrolysis flow into the bike,, while very minor it can also create other oxidation whereever any contact, rivets, bolts or whatever have points of weak contact.

If can't get rivets or wield in the housing to contact, solder a wire across the front and rear bracket. DC is a funny critter verses AC as AC likes to run easier 'alternating the current while DC direct current will tap the weakest link and corrode until there's no contact.


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## greenephantom (Oct 22, 2015)

It also looks to me that both batteries are facing the same way, which would mean that one is facing the wrong way.  I've seen lights with the "+" and "-" markings stamped wrong in the metal.

Another thing to note, that applies to the Phantom front light, and may also apply to the rear light as well: Back in the day batteries were cardboard wrapped, but modern batteries have a metal shell with the thinnest film of plastic around them.  The metal bits on the old lights can sometimes cut through this thin plastic film and short out. A bit of electrical tape will solve this problem.

Cheers, Geoff


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## rustjunkie (Oct 23, 2015)

Looking again at your pictures I think I see the bare wire at the back of the battery tray:



 

Plz let us know


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## 2jakes (Oct 23, 2015)

rustjunkie said:


> Looking again at your pictures I think I see the bare wire at the back of the battery tray:
> 
> View attachment 245215
> 
> Plz let us know





Thanks for the reply.

I went & opened the tray to check it out. 

The wire is not bare but has a plastic covering with a connecting tab at the end.




First time, I had both batteries facing the same direction towards the light bulb. 
 I stated that they were not installed to the rear backwards. Which is true....
BUT the light was dim.

So I installed one battery up & one down. The light is brighter.



The black wire is not touching the unit .



The light switch works....but





There is the question of that black wire. I have inserted to the side to hold it in place
so I could take the photo. But anywhere this black wire touches the unit...the light
goes on & the switch will not turn it off.

Is this a ground wire ? And where to attach it without having the light on permanently?

I know there is something I’ve missed but not sure where .

But Thanks for your comments, I’m learning more each time.


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## rustjunkie (Oct 23, 2015)

Eureka! 
The black wire is for the stoplight switch at the hub. If it touches anything the light won't function correctly.
Tape up the contact and you'll be good, or add a stoplight switch and be the coolest kid in school


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## 2jakes (Oct 23, 2015)

rustjunkie said:


> Eureka!
> The black wire is for the stoplight switch at the hub. If it touches anything the light won't function correctly.
> Tape up the contact and you'll be good, or add a stoplight switch and be the coolest kid in school




I know what you are saying & what it can do.

*But have no idea how to go about it. 
But.... I won’t give up !  *:o*

Thanks !
*


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## rustjunkie (Oct 23, 2015)

The wire attaches to the switch plate:





The ring attaches to a groove in the cog lockring, or the adapter that came with the 1990s units so it would work on Shimano hubs.


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## 2jakes (Oct 24, 2015)

rustjunkie said:


> The wire attaches to the switch plate:
> 
> View attachment 245243
> 
> The ring attaches to a groove in the cog lockring, or the adapter that came with the 1990s units so it would work on Shimano hubs.




Is this right ?









But the instant I attach the wire to the switch plate, the light turns on permanently.

The light switch on the tail assembly by the rack will not turn it off or on .

How do you regulate the light to turn on & off when using the wire in this manner.

(I guessing that applying the brakes will activate it ?)


The other option is to coil this black wire inside the tail light  assembly, tape it so that it
won’t touch any part of the metal that will trigger the light .

By doing this, the light switch on the tail light assembly will now turn on & off the light.
But this means having to manually turn it on/off by hand.


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## spoker (Oct 24, 2015)

if this light has the black plastic scwitch there are 2 positions to have the swich in,one is for brakelight only and one is frtaillite and brake light


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## rustjunkie (Oct 24, 2015)

Rich404 said:


> Does anyone know a fix for this?
> 
> -Rich.




Did you get yours taken care of, Rich?


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## rustjunkie (Oct 24, 2015)

2jakes said:


> Is this right ?




Yes that's how it is set up, you can see the brass button on the clip peeking out at the right side.
Here's another pic of one installed on bike, wire not attached:



 



2jakes said:


> But the instant I attach the wire to the switch plate, the light turns on permanently.
> 
> The light switch on the tail assembly by the rack will not turn it off or on .
> 
> ...




Can't say what might be happening without seeing see how the plate is attached. 
Do you have the clip with brass stud attached to the hub and is it moving freely when going from coast to brake?
If so, were the brakes applied for this picture?
This is a simple light really. As spoker said, 2 position switch: 
Switch is "on-off" for taillight, brake light always functions. 
ON: light on, (should) get brighter when brake applied. 
OFF: light off, comes on when backpedaled.
IIRC: When ON these ~1995 lights did not have a large difference in brightness between tail- and brake-light.
The original units (Schwinn, Elgin, Higgins, others) I've seen sometimes had a resistor or a ~12" length of single-strand cloth-covered wire that acted as one. 
Both work well and have a distinct change in brightness from tail- to brake-light.

More links:

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?73487

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showth...lil-Light-question&highlight=stoplight+switch

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?31317-Schwinn-Phantom-Delta-hub-activated-brake-light

A separate thread detailing the TL unit by year for the Phantom run would be great.


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## 2jakes (Oct 24, 2015)

rustjunkie said:


> Yes that's how it is set up, you can see the brass button on the clip peeking out at the right side.
> Here's another pic of one installed on bike, wire not attached:
> 
> 
> ...





Actually I just held the wire to the area where the switch plate by the hub will be installed & the light turns on.

But your reply explains the process of how the light works when actually applying the brakes to regulate the light
once the wires are attached & riding the bike.


Not being familiar , I complicated a very simple operation.

Thanks for your help.


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## Rich404 (Oct 28, 2015)

Thanks all for the input!

 Today I tinkered with the light. I lined the battery holder with electrical tape and I also put electrical tape on the two metal joints where the light comes into contact with the rack. When the light is off the bike it turns on and off very nice. When I install the unit using the screw towards the front of the rack it is fine but when I install the second screw closer to the light, is when the issues begin. It seems that the screw near the light bulb continues to create the short. When that screw is out, all is fine but the more I screw it in the worse off the issue becomes. I wish I had a plastic screw to eliminate this. Any suggestions on this?

-Rich.


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## rustjunkie (Oct 28, 2015)

Can you post some pictures?


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## 2jakes (Oct 28, 2015)

Rich404 said:


> Thanks all for the input!
> 
> Today I tinkered with the light. I lined the battery holder with electrical tape and I also put electrical tape on the two metal joints where the light comes into contact with the rack. When the light is off the bike it turns on and off very nice. When I install the unit using the screw towards the front of the rack it is fine but when I install the second screw closer to the light, is when the issues begin. It seems that the screw near the light bulb continues to create the short. When that screw is out, all is fine but the more I screw it in the worse off the issue becomes. I wish I had a plastic screw to eliminate this. Any suggestions on this?
> 
> -Rich.









Installing the rear screw should not create a short. There must be something else
that the rear screw is touching that is automatically causing the issues.
I would take it to the hardware & locate a shorter metal screw that will fit or as
you pointed out  a plastic one.


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## Rich404 (Oct 30, 2015)

2jakes said:


> Installing the rear screw should not create a short. There must be something else
> that the rear screw is touching that is automatically causing the issues.
> I would take it to the hardware & locate a shorter metal screw that will fit or as
> you pointed out  a plastic one.




I agree, i'll do that!! It's that rear screw where the issue is.

I use my bicycles at night so I want to finally make it reliable.

-Rich.


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## 2jakes (Oct 30, 2015)

Rich404 said:


> I agree, i'll do that!! It's that rear screw where the issue is.
> 
> I use my bicycles at night so I want to finally make it reliable.
> 
> -Rich.





When I ride the bike in the evening---originality takes 2nd place ! 



There’s many varieties & are super brighter & reliable !


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