# Identification question - prewar "Sentinal"



## EXP Jawa (Apr 28, 2012)

I found this bike at the Spring Carlisle swap meet yesterday. 




I don't know what it is, but a skiptooth balloon tire bike with a straight downtube ought to be interested either way, right?
The seller (who also didn't know what it was, but was sure it was prewar) wanted $75, I offered $50, we agreed to $65.  It seemed interesting at first, but I quickly found it wouldn't roll due the deformed tires hitting the fork.  When we got back to the car, I couldn't really break it down readily, since a lot of the hardware was rusted.  So, I was beginning to think buying it was a mistake.  But, we made it fit (good thing for station wagons).  Anyway, I got it home and started looking it over today.  Here's what it looked like:






Interesting sargent stripes on the fenders:






Clearly, from the fender holes and dropout shape, it had a drop stand once.  Too bad someone replaced it with a new-fangled kickstand...



The bike has a New Departure Model D hub:



And it had this headbadge taped to it:



However, the impression on the head tube from the original badge is rectangular, not round.  Plus, someone engrave "large tricycle" on the back of the Colson badge, so I'm sure that it's unrelated to the bike.


----------



## EXP Jawa (Apr 28, 2012)

So, I put it on the stand and started dousing it liberally with PB blaster.  To my surprise, most all of the hardware came free.  Also surprising, underneath the oxidization and rust staining, a lot of the original paint was still there.  I spent a few hours with steelwool, WD40 and even polishing compound and came up with this:









The only decaling on the bike is this on the seat tube:



There are numbers stamped on the BB shell, but not much:



It reads "735 FS" and below that, what appears to be "D8".  The last part isn't fully stamped, but it doesn't look like there are any other characters stamped anywhere.
Head tube up close:



There's enough of a difference in paint fade to make out the shape of the original badge.  It was rectangular, and it had scalloped out corners.  

The fenders had a white stripe along the length of the peak that terminated just before the stripes.  






Much of that is faded and gone now.  

And, where the chrome survived on the handle bars (from under the grips), there's a Torrington script still visible:




I was able to remove the seat post, take the seat mount apart, and turn it around so that it was offset rearward instead of forward.  It looks like someone had the forsight to grease the seat post, thankfully.  I was also able to get the chain to loosen up and (grudgingly) crank around several times.  I expect that with some work, it might actually be serviceable.  The only thing that's still a sticking point is the stem; I'm able to loosen the quill and I can turn it back and forth slightly inside the steer tube.  But that's it so far, I can't yet get it to move much or slide out.  But since it at least moves some, I have hope that PB Blaster and effort will solve the issue.  The stem is bent to one side, so the bars don't sit level.  But that appears to be the only real damaged or problematic component on the whole thing.

So all that's great, but I still have no idea what is.  I had the idea from a picture that I'd recently seen that it might be an early CWC bike, but again, I really have no idea.  I know that there are bits I've seen before, like the chainring, but I can't place off of the top of my head.


----------



## 41OLDSTEED (Apr 29, 2012)

Nice Score...The Cranks-Sprocket are for sure COLSON...Not sure on the Rest of the Bike...Experts chime In...


----------



## Boris (Apr 29, 2012)

It's a Colson! And it could be an economy model, which didn't come with a chainguard, tank or rack (according to my Colson book). The frame is the same as my Colson Imperial. The chain adjusters are distinctively Colson (round head). The serial number makes me want to say 1938 (D8). In my book, I don't see your chainring used before 1938. But, I don't see anywhere in my book that your style of fork goes on any bikes after 1936. So, I'm just as curious as you. hopefully an expert will be able to narrow it down. A very well spent $65. that's cleaning up amazingly well.


----------



## EXP Jawa (Apr 30, 2012)

Thanks for the info.  Regarding the fork, it doesn't have dropouts.  I had to spread the fork legs to get the axle out and back in again when I mounted new tires.  A little more clean up over the weekend....








I swapped out the bars, grips & stem for ones I had that were somewhat similar.  The original stem is bent, so I'll have to try to straighten it.  However, for the moment, I didn't want to remove the grips so I could take the bars out.  I also mounted new tires.  The original ones (were Firestones) had to be cut off.  The previous tubes and rim liner strips were a pinkish rubber, so they might even be original.  It appears that the rims were originally also painted red.  Both wheels ran fairly true, and all the spokes had reasonable tension on them.  They are small diameter spokes and rusty, I might want to respoke the wheels at some point.








I've had almost everything apart at this point, and all the hardware has come loose (a bit lucky there, I think), even the axle adjustment screws.  I've cleaned and regreased the bearings, save for the head bearings, as I haven't gotten into there yet.  There were no markings on the crank; I don't know if that's normal for a Colson.  Also, when I had the crank out, I expected to find dirt, dried old grease, etc.  I did not expect to find saw dust.  The source of it is a dowel inside the down tube, with is dry rotting.  The only way that could be in there is if it was done during manufacturing.  But I can't think of a reason why...


----------



## EXP Jawa (Apr 30, 2012)

One more thing that might be a clue: as I've said above, the badge shape impression in the paint does not match the Colson badge that came with it. It also does not match any of the Colson badges I've found googling it. It does match, however, Firestone badges of the era. There are several on eBay right now, such as:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Firestone-C...488?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ebdc2cb60

I've found no other brand badges that matched the shape. Also, that _could _tie into the serial number markings, with ended in the letters "FS". Maybe that designated a Firestone bike? So in the end, maybe I'm looking for info on a _Firestone _Sentinel and *not *a Colson Sentinel...


----------



## EXP Jawa (Nov 20, 2012)

Just updating with a few pictures from a recent ride...


----------



## Boris (Jan 11, 2013)

Just bumped into this thread again. I think your $65 "mistake?" turned out fantastic!


----------



## EXP Jawa (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks.  It certainly seemed questionable at the start, but I tend to look at these things with rose-colored goggles...  But yeah, it came out pretty well all things considered.  I have it in the back of my mind that I ought to respoke the wheels.  The original spokes are intact so far, but they are small gauge and I'm sure stress and corrosion have taken their toll.  I've been reluctant to venture too far, should I be out somewhere and they start breaking.  Should probably rebuild the coaster hub while I'm at it...


----------



## DonChristie (Jan 11, 2013)

Aww, another one saved! Nice job! Pics look great! Seat must be a ballbuster!


----------



## kccomet (Jan 12, 2013)

nice find,nice job on the clean up, ive bought quite a few bikes like this condition, just to see if i could make them come back some what. too many people want to sand blast and paint. its amazing what an sos pad, some oil , steel wool, etc can do to bring back some paint and patina. oh yea there were quite a few to that didnt come back as id hoped


----------



## 1918 Ranger (Jan 13, 2013)

Great job.  Beautiful bike!!!


1918 Ranger


----------



## fatbike (Jan 13, 2013)

Yep! April 1938 Colson standard...Probably a basic tankless models with out a chain-guard or perhaps it came with a 3 wing feather guard that was common on 37 and some 36s. A 38-39 peaked crown fork with early style 1936 trusses and truss plate. And the fenders do not have a front headlight stamped hole so defeintely a standard basic model. Maybe it originally had a hardware or private named head badge. Cool bike. It really cleaned up well for a rider. Good work!

The round C head badge will fit but did not come out until 1940 I believe. The saddle looks like Elgin troxel.


Excuse me if i I missed i few things. I scanned through the written info and bicycle quickly. The Girlfriend became a little impatient with me being on the cabe. Got to go!


----------

