# How old is it?



## wschellen (Feb 25, 2020)

This beautiful bike just fell into my hands last weekend and I am trying to find out more about it. The previous owner said it was from the 20s. I can not find much out about this Marque, but I can tell it is a quality bike by the light weight and beautiful workmanship. It also has many alloy components. It has a small decal on the seat tube which indicated maybe it was restored some time in the distant past. Let me know any guesses or info you might have. Thanks


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## sam (Feb 25, 2020)

Check the back side of the chainring for a date code. http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/builders/bertrand-builders-griffith.html


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## dweenk (Feb 25, 2020)

Guess at 1930.


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## fat tire trader (Feb 25, 2020)

Based upon the parts, the wheels, fenders, handlebar stem and seat post, my guess is that the bike is from the late 40s.


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## fat tire trader (Feb 25, 2020)

The stem looks like the Reynolds stem on my Higgins http://fattiretrading.com/higgins-ultralite.html maybe on the short reach stems, they did not have room for the logo.


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## Frank and Pam Skid Kings (Feb 25, 2020)

No idea of year, but I can tell you it's pretty darn cool !


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## dnc1 (Feb 25, 2020)

fat tire trader said:


> The stem looks like the Reynolds stem on my Higgins http://fattiretrading.com/higgins-ultralite.html maybe on the short reach stems, they did not have room for the logo.




You are right re. the 'Reynolds' girder stem, I think you're correct re. the lack of logo.
I'm also guessing late '40s, possibly early '50s.

There were so many small scale London framebuilders from this era.

@wschellen, I'll do a little more digging for you.

Fortunately, Mr Griffith (as mentioned in @sam's excellent link above) is a regular rider with me on V-CC runs over here, and he loves an obscure London marque.

I'll email him and see if he can help in anyway

Gorgeous bicycle!


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## wschellen (Feb 25, 2020)

fat tire trader said:


> The stem looks like the Reynolds stem on my Higgins http://fattiretrading.com/higgins-ultralite.html maybe on the short reach stems, they did not have room for the logo.



Yes, it does say reynolds on the stem.


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## bricycle (Feb 25, 2020)

Canadian? 40's? Definitely not 20's. Possibly a higher end cycle. Nice fall in lap!


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## Andrew Gorman (Feb 25, 2020)

My first thought was that the stem was an upgrade to get even more reach out of the long reach bars.  Mr. Kirby had some association with Holdworth:




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						Holdsworth
					





					www.nkilgariff.com
				



And C. Bertrand was a frame builder:




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						C. Bertrand & Co. - Cycling UK Forum
					





					forum.cyclinguk.org
				



I'm leaning towards a pre-war bike with post war renovations.


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## dnc1 (Feb 25, 2020)

Opinion is it is post '45.
Nothing much known of the Kirby shop, although they also made their own branded frames.
Their is also a link to 'Saxon' cycles being part founded by ex 'C. Bertrand' staff.
This is a lovely classic lightweight, ride it and enjoy!


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## juvela (Feb 25, 2020)

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Side note on the Reynolds stem -

another manufacturer who produced alloy stems with the distinctive double binder arrangement was Centrix of France.   Schwinn experts will know they came on the first year Continental ten speed of 1960.   they went out of business in 1962.


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## wschellen (Feb 25, 2020)

@sam  This is the only marking on the back of the chain ring. Is it some kind of date code?


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## sam (Feb 25, 2020)

AB = 1939  http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British_isles/Williams/Williams_nmbrs.htm


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## wschellen (Feb 25, 2020)

sam said:


> AB = 1939  http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British_isles/Williams/Williams_nmbrs.htm



Wow, how cool is that. The crank is probably orgional so the bike must be close to that year. Thanks


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## fat tire trader (Feb 26, 2020)

Yes, I still think your bike was made after WW2.


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## juvela (Feb 26, 2020)

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The more I look at this Reynolds stem the more it appears a dead ringer for one of the CENTRIX models.

Wonder if a case of licensing or somesuch...

One simple check which could be made would be to measure the thread of the two binder bolts and that of the expander bolt.  Also the size of the hex heads.

Somewhat suspect you will find them to be metric.

Have some CENTRIX images and adverts saved on the HD o' me home machine.

Will glue them in to the thread when I get back there next week.

Thanks to everyone for the fine detective work thus far!  


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## juvela (Mar 21, 2020)

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Two images of Centrix stems which resemble the Reynolds:









Centrix advert from the interwar years:





Centrix advert of 1952:





Daniel Rebour rendering of 1951:





Has anyone learned any more regarding the bicycle?

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## dnc1 (Mar 22, 2020)

Information regarding the bicycle is proving elusive.


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## Schwinny (Aug 30, 2021)

Zombie thread.
Was directed to and just tripped on this post since I found a Reynolds stem like this one and was searching for info about it. I thought it might be a centrix model at first but I had no idea.
One thing I've noticed about this bike and its stem is that it has the Reynolds stem which is a head clip style. The Centrix uses an expander bolt. Also the Reynolds stem has the bolt heads recessed.
The Reynolds is also a 2 piece aluminum stem similar to the old Schwinn Double adjustable except the top stem bolt holds the arm to the stem. 
The centrix looks to be brass?


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## dnc1 (Sep 3, 2021)

Schwinny said:


> Zombie thread.
> Was directed to and just tripped on this post since I found a Reynolds stem like this one and was searching for info about it. I thought it might be a centrix model at first but I had no idea.
> One thing I've noticed about this bike and its stem is that it has the Reynolds stem which is a head clip style. The Centrix uses an expander bolt. Also the Reynolds stem has the bolt heads recessed.
> The Reynolds is also a 2 piece aluminum stem similar to the old Schwinn Double adjustable except the top stem bolt holds the arm to the stem.
> The centrix looks to be brass?




Many high end French stems of this era are often made of some sort of cast bronze alloy.


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