# Schwinn Cool Lemon paint



## bikecrazy

I will be painting an old Sting Ray that is Cool Lemon (bright Yellow). Does anyone have any suggestions about obtaining the correct color paint. Do any big box spray cans match up? Any auto store colors? Thanks!


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## Metacortex

Here's the real deal: http://www.hyper-formance.com/paints.htm

Note that Kool Lemon goes over an aluminum basecoat.


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## GTs58

Metacortex said:


> Here's the real deal: http://www.hyper-formance.com/paints.htm
> 
> Note that Kool Lemon goes over an aluminum basecoat.




I wonder why the aluminum base coat for Kool Lemon. Is that just for Pete's paint only? I've never seen any traces of an aluminum base on original paint Lemon bikes, just the red oxide primer.


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## Metacortex

GTs58 said:


> I wonder why the aluminum base coat for Kool Lemon. Is that just for Pete's paint only? I've never seen any traces of an aluminum base on original paint Lemon bikes, just the red oxide primer.




Good observation, I was just going by what it says on the Hyper-Formance page. I just checked two original Kool Lemon bikes ('71 Super Sport, '75 Continental) and both of those were definitely sprayed over red oxide primer, no aluminum coat in sight. I would ask Pete about the aluminum basecoat he calls for before ordering any Kool Lemon paint.


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## Duck

Red Oxide is only used under "solid" colors- aluminum (silver) is only used under "candy" colors, has always been my experience.


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## DonChristie

Pete is the man! Give him a call if you have questions. I did a Cardinal red using his paint. It turns out to be a 4 step process- primer, metalic undercoat, color and a clear coat. Mine turned out nice! A little spendy tho. Not your typical krylon spray paint.


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## bikecrazy

Thanks for all the replys. I was hoping someone found a good match using something I could get locally and cheap. I have a can of Mopar "Lemon Twist" lacquer. but it is a few shades too light.


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## rideahiggins

Try Ford Zink yellow.


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## bikecrazy

Zink yellow is looking good!


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## momo608

Not only were ALL Chicago Schwinn electro forged frames painted with red oxide before any kind of top coat paint was applied, they were dipped in it. If you cut one of these bikes apart, you will find that the interior of the tubing is indeed coated with red oxide. This will also explain the the dripping paint, or more precisely, the painted over dripping primer found on the bottom brackets of so many of these. Schwinn really was all about quality in those days.


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## Pantmaker

Duck said:


> Red Oxide is only used under "solid" colors- aluminum (silver) is only used under "candy" colors, has always been my experience.




Good points. Some models (i.e. Ballooner Jag) used a metalic gold undercoat with the candy colors.


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## momo608

Pantmaker said:


> Good points. Some models (i.e. Ballooner Jag) used a metalic gold undercoat with the candy colors.




It's bad info.


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## GTs58

momo608 said:


> It's bad info.[/QUOTE
> 
> What's bad info, that sales pitch BS about baked on paint in the 70's with three plus coats? In 1963 1964 the Flamboyant colors were only two actual coats of paint. Acid dips/metal preps don't count as a coat of paint. The aluminum base/primer coat and the candy coat was it.


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## momo608

The "aluminum" base is not primer and there was red oxide primer used under it ALWAYS. 

It was said that there was no primer used under the translucent colors, this was false or bad information. What I would like to know is, why do guys put up information when they obviously do not know what they are talking about? Why do guys chime in in the defense of bad information when they obviously do not know what they are talking about either? Who does this help? It certainly does not help those that are trying to duplicate factory finishes. If someone tries to put a base coat over bare metal without a primer coat, it will fail in time. Is that what you want? or are you just looking to score some points to bolster your ego at any cost? 

I have stripped and repainted enough frames to have first hand experience that the Schwinn "sales pitch BS" as you call it, is absolutely true.


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## momo608

Here is an original paint 1959 radiant green Schwinn Jaguar frame. No that is not red steel under the silver base, you guessed it. It's red oxide primer. No, they did not have a separate line for un-primed frames that went straight to silver base coats. Yes, all frames must have been primed to prevent rusting before they received whatever colors they were destined for. Common sense would dictate that same color bikes would have been done in batches. Frames would have been in waiting for the equipment to be changed over to different colors. 

Not bad for a Newbie. You guys really need to get your acts together. You help no one with unfounded bogus information. This is primarily why I stay away from websites like this. People just throw anything up like they are experts when the exact opposite is true. It's frustrating and worse than useless. Who are you going to believe, which is the more reliable source, Schwinn or guys spouting off on websites?


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## Duck

..............


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## rideahiggins

I thought the "bad Info" was that they used a _metalic__ gold undercoat _. I'm not aware they did.


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## Duck

.................


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## GTs58

momo608 said:


> The "aluminum" base is not primer and there was red oxide primer used under it ALWAYS.
> 
> It was said that there was no primer used under the translucent colors, this was false or bad information. What I would like to know is, why do guys put up information when they obviously do not know what they are talking about? Why do guys chime in in the defense of bad information when they obviously do not know what they are talking about either? Who does this help? It certainly does not help those that are trying to duplicate factory finishes. If someone tries to put a base coat over bare metal without a primer coat, it will fail in time. Is that what you want? or are you just looking to score some points to bolster your ego at any cost?
> 
> I have stripped and repainted enough frames to have first hand experience that the Schwinn "sales pitch BS" as you call it, is absolutely true.




In 1963 Schwinn started using the aluminum base for a primer also. This started on the Flamboyant colors and there was no red oxide primer underneath. This is a proven fact so check out your frames from this time period, 1963 and on. I have stripped 63 and 64 frames and no red primer so the sales BS is wrong. I also own many 63's and none have the red primer.

The 50's gold base was not a metallic paint.


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## GTs58

momo608 said:


> Here is an original paint 1959 radiant green Schwinn Jaguar frame. No that is not red steel under the silver base, you guessed it. It's red oxide primer. No, they did not have a separate line for un-primed frames that went straight to silver base coats. Yes, all frames must have been primed to prevent rusting before they received whatever colors they were destined for. Common sense would dictate that same color bikes would have been done in batches. Frames would have been in waiting for the equipment to be changed over to different colors.
> 
> *Not bad for a Newbie. You guys really need to get your acts together. You help no one with unfounded bogus information. This is primarily why I stay away from websites like this. People just throw anything up like they are experts when the exact opposite is true. It's frustrating and worse than useless. Who are you going to believe, which is the more reliable source, Schwinn or guys spouting off on websites?[/*QUOTE]
> 
> 
> .


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## momo608

You mean like these? I think I made my case better than adequately. I'll let others decide.


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## momo608

GTs58 said:


> In 1963 Schwinn started using the aluminum base for a primer also. This started on the Flamboyant colors and there was no red oxide primer underneath. This is a proven fact so check out your frames from this time period, 1963 and on. I have stripped 63 and 64 frames and no red primer so the sales BS is wrong. I also own many 63's 64's 65's and 66's and none have the red primer.
> 
> The 50's gold base was not a metallic paint.




A proven fact? Then what is this stuff under the silver base on this coppertone 1967 Fastback? 

This is getting cruel already. I sure do not understand why people latch on to something when they are so obviously wrong and are embarrassing themselves. It will be amusing to see how you twist this.

I maybe a newbie to bicycles but I'm not a newbie to highest levels of restoration experience, I take it seriously and I don't suffer fools gladly. The tools in the background of that last photo should give you some idea.  

Since I had this horribly weathered frame laying around I just could not resist to post it. I fully understand that as a newcomer here, that when I start pushing the know it all's around that have over a thousand comments of apparently suspect content, I'm probably not making any friends. You can be as right as rain but still lose badly in the court of public opinion if the public does not like the cut of your jib. I can live with that.


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## bikecrazy

Beautiful paintwork on those frames. Are those for your collection or for customers?


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## Metacortex

momo608 said:


> A proven fact? Then what is this stuff under the silver base on this coppertone 1967 Fastback?




Well that sure looks like red oxide primer to me. To satisfy my curiosity I just examined no less than 15 Chicago built Schwinn frames/forks with Flamboyant paint dating from 1969 through '78 (including a '78 Twinn) and with few exceptions* all of them had red oxide primer under the aluminum basecoat. In fact all were dipped in the red oxide primer as you could see the coating line inside the frame seat mast tubes and fork steerers as well (prior to this topic I didn't realize the red oxide was a dip). 

*The only exceptions I found in the frames/forks I checked were the forks (only) on '71-'75 Sports Tourers. Those forks were fully chromed under the paint and consequently were not dipped in red oxide primer prior to painting. However in those specific cases the matching frames were dipped. Likewise I imagine that Paramount frames/forks with chromed lugs would also have been spared the red oxide dip.


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## GTs58

momo608 said:


> A proven fact? Then what is this stuff under the silver base on this coppertone 1967 Fastback?
> 
> I maybe a newbie to bicycles but I'm not a newbie to highest levels of restoration experience, I take it seriously and I don't suffer fools gladly. The This is getting cruel already. I sure do not understand why people latch on to something when they are so obviously wrong and are embarrassing themselves. It will be amusing to see how you twist this.
> 
> tools in the background of that last photo should give you some idea.
> 
> Since I had this horribly weathered frame laying around I just could not resist to post it. I fully understand that as a newcomer here, that when I start pushing the know it all's around that have over a thousand comments of apparently suspect content, I'm probably not making any friends. You can be as right as rain but still lose badly in the court of public opinion if the public does not like the cut of you jib. I can live with that.




You are the one that's wrong embarrassing yourself. After a few more years of research you'll know what I know and more about the facts. Send me your address and I'll ship you a few frames needing fresh paint, and they do not have any red oxide primer under the silver base coat.


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## sfhschwinn

momo608 said:


> You mean like these? I think I made my case better than adequately. I'll let others decide.






Is it just me or does it appear to anyone else that these frames were painted in a vat of skittle food coloring because they sure as hell don't appear to be original Schwinn colors.


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## Pantmaker

Another exception to the "everything gets red oxide primer" were the chrome chainguards.  The chrome was the metalic base for the candies. I also heard the difference in the reds as they changed over time was the elimination of pigs blood from the formula. Let the record show that Im not sure about this one, and I am asking the guy that strips all those bikes to show me a little mercy here. Me stupid...me pull all my hair out.


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## bikecrazy

I'm sure glad I didn't start this thread.


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## momo608

sfhschwinn said:


> View attachment 218791
> Is it just me or does it appear to anyone else that these frames were painted in a vat of skittle food coloring because they sure as hell don't appear to be original Schwinn colors.




Thanks! Tell that to Pete at hyper-formance

http://www.hyper-formance.com/paints.htm


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## momo608

bikecrazy said:


> Beautiful paintwork on those frames. Are those for your collection or for customers?




Thank you! I have just gone a little Schwinn crazy over the past year. These are for myself but I am thinking of offering a painting service in the near future. The problem is the materiel cost is in the $150 range per frame so adding on the labor I would have to ask for a total of about $400 per frame for a decal ready base coat clear coat frame and fork.. I just don't know if there would be any takers at that kind of money. I also do custom frame work and I will have that ready to show pretty soon as well. Waiting to get stuff back from the platers and it is taking forever.

Here are a few of my other just completed projects.


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## momo608

Metacortex said:


> Well that sure looks like red oxide primer to me. To satisfy my curiosity I just examined no less than 15 Chicago built Schwinn frames/forks with Flamboyant paint dating from 1969 through '78 (including a '78 Twinn) and with few exceptions* all of them had red oxide primer under the aluminum basecoat. In fact all were dipped in the red oxide primer as you could see the coating line inside the frame seat mast tubes and fork steerers as well (prior to this topic I didn't realize the red oxide was a dip).
> 
> *The only exceptions I found in the frames/forks I checked were the forks (only) on '71-'75 Sports Tourers. Those forks were fully chromed under the paint and consequently were not dipped in red oxide primer prior to painting. However in those specific cases the matching frames were dipped. Likewise I imagine that Paramount frames/forks with chromed lugs would also have been spared the red oxide dip.




Thanks! I knew there had to be someone looking at this thread that has a handle on reality. That is getting harder and harder to find these days on just about anything.


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## momo608

GTs58 said:


> You are the one that's wrong embarrassing yourself. After a few more years of research you'll know what I know and more about the facts. Send me your address and I'll ship you a few frames needing fresh paint, and they do not have any red oxide primer under the silver base coat.




You must be the guy that got all those Twilight Zone bikes.


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## sfhschwinn

momo608 said:


> Thanks! Tell that to Pete at hyper-formance
> 
> http://www.hyper-formance.com/paints.htm




The paint just looks way to shiny and bright compared to what they would have looked like coming out of the factory. If they weren't so glossy they would look right. I know Pete does good work as I have a bike with one of his restored apple krate seats


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## momo608

sfhschwinn said:


> The paint just looks way to shiny and bright compared to what they would have looked like coming out of the factory. If they weren't so glossy they would look right. I know Pete does good work as I have a bike with one of his restored apple krate seats




That's the effect of base coat clear coat paint jobs and why guys love it on cars. Alkyd base single stage paints are a relic of the past and no one is reproducing them to my knowledge. I wish they were because I would have gladly used it and saved a bunch of money. Another problem is Alkyd air dried paint is on the fragile side. Schwinn baked it on which adds greatly to the durability factor. Here is A bike I did with NOS Schwinn lime, It is duller than the B/C stuff no doubt.

I just thought you were being a ---- and taking sides?


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## Schwinn499

....


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## Schwinn499

When it comes to vintage bicycles, originality is king. Repainting/restoring bikes takes a big back seat to an original paint original parts refurbish and there is a huge difference between the two, monetarily if that's what your in it for, but also nostalgically. There is really no comparison. Repainted bikes will never be correct at they are not a factory job and never seem to look right IMO. We can all fuss about primers and paint all we want but when it comes down to it, a repaint it just that....a repaint. Some people are just bicycle restorers vs. actually being a true collector that is in it for their passion of bicycles..

To each is own


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## Freqman1

They never look right because they are too nice! Most factory jobs are pretty crappy when you really start looking at them--runs, drips, dry spots, jacked up pinstriping, etc... The ones I do restore I use a single stage enamel and not a BC/CC. V/r Shawn


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## bikecrazy

I love restoring bikes and I am very proud of my paintwork.My bikes look correct because I take the time to do it right.I am getting really tired of people bashing restored bicycles. This is my thread and here I will stand my ground.


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## momo608

bikecrazy said:


> I love restoring bikes and I am very proud of my paintwork.My bikes look correct because I take the time to do it right.I am getting really tired of people bashing restored bicycles. This is my thread and here I will stand my ground.




People bash it because they themselves can't do that level work. Instead of doing the hard work of learning new skills. They try and justify what they do or can't do as the superior method to make their shortcomings more acceptable to themselves. There is no shortage of people in the same boat so finding people who agree with that sentiment about restored bikes is a given. Once a bike is put all back together with a high quality paint job, there really is not much difference from a perfect original and a restored bike. Looking at freshly painted bare frames like I put up, is really not a good way to know what the bike will look like when it is finished. If we could go back in time and I had 1960's or 70's factory painted new frames hanging there instead of what I have, I do not think anyone would be able to spot the difference particularly in a photo. 

If any of this nonsense was true about restored vs worn out originals, car shows would be loaded with junkers and rat rods and their admirers, they are not. I can't help but notice in the tiny segment that the rat rods take up in the old car hobby, the quality level is also increasing because junky rods are wearing out their welcome, people like high quality work even if they can't do it themselves.

Be proud because you are doing work that few can do and most will never be able to do. It's just easier for them to tear down the work of other people instead of improving on their own skill set.


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## momo608

I put forward the idea on another website that if we had a more serious effort in raising the quality level of vintage road bikes, that this would be good for the hobby. More recognition, a better aftermarket and hopefully increased values. Since properly restored or refinished road bikes are an extreme rarity in the old bike hobby, there is nothing to go off of except intuition and seeing how other similar hobbies have evolved. I'm doing my part and I hope it catches on. I also pointed out the bargain prices on equipment like spray guns and compressors compared to the "old days, coupled with an abundance of cheap bikes and the internet. There really has been no better time for the novice to expand there horizons if they have the will. Except for very limited numbers of well preserved and seldom used vintage road bikes, the hobby is dominated by rat bikes that get little in the way of respect or interest from potential newcomers.


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## bikecrazy

Amen!


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## Pantmaker

Ok...thought I'd stir the old pot a bit with this one.  I stumled onto something interesting the other night. Lot's of cyber ink has been spilled over the correct process and order of the different layers of paint on these old schwinns...particularly in discussions about the candy colors that use a silver base coat under the translucent colors. Well here are two examples of original paint candy colors that seem to have been painted with two different processes. The red is a 65 KS Heavy Duti and the silver base coat seems to be shot directly over the bare metal...followed by the red color coat(s). The blue bike on the other hand is a 61 KS American and this photo clearly shows a red primer used, followed by the silver base which is then topped by the blue. Both candy colors, one with red primer...one without. Go figure. What say ye?


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## bikecrazy

I'm seeing red primer on both frames.


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## Pantmaker

bikecrazy said:


> I'm seeing red primer on both frames.



I should have mentioned, the darker red you see on the red bike that looks like primer in the photo is actually on the top layer and seems to be original paint that didn't get blasted out in the Arizona sun.


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## momo608

bikecrazy said:


> I'm seeing red primer on both frames.



Me three

By the way, Pete needs to use a silver base under his yellow base coat because you can see through it. Unless of course you lay on lots of coats. You should be able to use a white sealer and achieve the same results. Schwinn lemon yellow should be an easy color for any body shop supply store to match but you would have to buy a full pint of it. That makes Petes paint not that expensive after all.


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## fuzzyinpdx

bikecrazy said:


> I will be painting an old Sting Ray that is Cool Lemon (bright Yellow). Does anyone have any suggestions about obtaining the correct color paint. Do any big box spray cans match up? Any auto store colors? Thanks!



I just got o lemon that needs paint to.how did the ford sink color turn out ?


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## bikecrazy

Truthfully I ended up painting the bike a different color.


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