# Where's the love???



## bricycle (Aug 8, 2012)

***SOLD***
Why doesn't antone want to buy this Shapleigh? It's really a cool looking bike, it's likely to have been built around the First World War was going on (metal was probably restricted to military usage) so is not common. You see lots of TOC and pre TOC bikes andmid -late 20's and 30's stuff, but how often do you see 1900's and teens bikes?
Let's break it down... Frame and fork, gotta be worth a hundie right?
Pope Star seat...ok, separating in the rear, but top and side leather good...easy hundie again...
straight wheels, pr....$100, no problem right?
bars and stem 75/25 ...there's another easy hundie....
chain wheelassy/chain ....easy 75 right?? total= $475   I didn't even mention the post and pedals.....
Still no body even wants it for $450 ?????  $490 shipped domestic...a bargain!!!!!
bri.


----------



## Balloontyre (Aug 8, 2012)

*I gots love man*

Cool bike, logic and reason are not enough to motivate a buyer, they gotta want it.
Maybe worth going to EBay on this one.


----------



## bricycle (Aug 8, 2012)

Heck, I love it, but somethings gotta go...
Anyone want to buy my trifecta ( Chief, Napoleon, Elginmoto, all same frame) Napoleon AND Elgin both have the coveted battery holder switched tanks!! all 3 with teacup lights! $3700 invested....$3300.00 pick-up only.


----------



## RMS37 (Aug 8, 2012)

Where is the love? I suppose if you are selling it, it’s not at the bikes current home. 

  I’ll also bite my tongue and not send you back to your last post for an answer, but I think that your low price is just clearly higher than anyone on this site who has seen the bike feels it is worth to them.

  My opinion is that the bike is not so much overpriced at your asking price but that as a whole it just does not have the cachet of some other bikes with more name recognition (Racycle for instance) and it does not have any unusual features that would catch your eye if it were in a crowd of it’s contemporaries. (Like a big chain ring) 

  I also think it is admirable if you are holding to keeping the bike together and not parting it but remember, people on here often make comments about a bike being worth 1/3 to ½ of the parts price so if the bike is worth roughly $500 in parts that means those people might be interested in the $150 to $250 range (you’ll cover the shipping on that won’t you?)

  That price range may be less than you value the bike and less than you have into it, but in a single venue everyone says something is ultimately worth what the next new owner is willing to pay (In dollars perhaps, intrinsically perhaps not) that means that you are asking more that it is worth…. in dollars…. here.  It may be that the added exposure on eBay would get the job done but where would the camaraderie be if I suggested that approach, and I still think you may be stuck with a house mate at a “reserve” a bit north of the so-long for sure price.


----------



## bricycle (Aug 8, 2012)

RMS37 said:


> Where is the love? I suppose if you are selling it, it’s not at the bikes current home.
> 
> I’ll also bite my tongue and not send you back to your last post for an answer, but I think that your low price is just clearly higher than anyone on this site who has seen the bike feels it is worth to them.
> 
> ...




Thanks for an honest reply...you're an OK guy!


----------



## RMS37 (Aug 8, 2012)

Just an OK guy? I was hoping to ascend to the level of Super OK guy! Oh well, I keep trying.


----------



## Boris (Aug 8, 2012)

RMS37 said:


> Just an OK guy? I was hoping to ascend to the level of Super OK guy! Oh well, I keep trying.




It's your itchy trigger finger on the boiling oil that keeps you at just OK.


----------



## Larmo63 (Aug 8, 2012)

Racycle = Way Sexier.........!

I guess I knew it all along, but we heard it from the master.


----------



## RMS37 (Aug 8, 2012)

Larmo63 said:


> Racycle = Way Sexier.........!
> 
> I guess I knew it all along, but we heard it from the master.




Well, No... you'll never here me referring to a bike as "Sexy", I guess I'm just not wired that way.


----------



## hotrod62 (Aug 12, 2012)

i think its all about the badge.  its badged as a shapleigh special some hardware store in st louis  that probably never made a bike but the actual mfg say is schwinn the bike would be sold in a snap  a lot of people have not heard of shapleigh so they think maybe its just a no name bike when it in real life is a quility made bicycle  i just bought a great looking original 1947 shapleigh special i plan on keeping the bike for myself to show it's obvious it was a Columbia westfield built bicycle badged for shapleigh so instead of countless people looking down at the badge and scratching their head head  saying shapleigh  never heard of them i re badged it as a well known Columbia that most every one is familiar with this should not be done if your reselling it maybe you should try selling under two names like   a 19xx Huffman built western flyer  just saying.....................


----------



## BlueTarp (Aug 12, 2012)

hotrod62 said:


> i think its all about the badge.  its badged as a shapleigh special some hardware store in st louis  that probably never made a bike but the actual mfg say is schwinn the bike would be sold in a snap  a lot of people have not heard of shapleigh so they think maybe its just a no name bike when it in real life is a quility made bicycle  i just bought a great looking original 1947 shapleigh special i plan on keeping the bike for myself to show it's obvious it was a Columbia westfield built bicycle badged for shapleigh so instead of countless people looking down at the badge and scratching their head head  saying shapleigh  never heard of them i re badged it as a well known Columbia that most every one is familiar with this should not be done if your reselling it maybe you should try selling under two names like   a 19xx Huffman built western flyer  just saying.....................




Or you could just rebadge it as a Harley for increased public interest and acceptance or a quick profitable flip! 

A bike is given it's identity when it is badged and once that has been removed by the head badge magpies or changed for an excruciatingly lame reason there is often no going back. While I can clearly understand the motivation in the creation of so many fake Harley Davidson bicycles, the laziness and ignorance that would have someone rebadge a bike to show it as something it is not so they can either deceive the public or so they won't need to waste time educating them is a new low in the notion of collectors as preservationists and curators of the past.

I'm about ready to turn in my card on this site and this is another serious black mark in my book.

I posted this while I was logged on as Bluetarp which was created for my friend Ron to facilitate selling his Colson collection, I need to make it clear that the above is to be attributed to me, RMS37 and in no way should it be construed as the opinion of my friend Ron.


----------



## hotrod62 (Aug 12, 2012)

so sorry you have took my response the wrong way I'm just simply saying if a bike is badged as a well known its more appealing    then a no name I'm not saying go change the badges on all your bikes to evinrude for a large profit resale  or was i suggesting for the seller to change it. maybe for him to mention it was mfg by xxx and badged as xxx  i have seen so many bikes modified and badly miss matched  and so on but yet i don't or wont put down or make neg comets about their bike. to each their own i do see where your coming from and understand your point.......... did not intend to open a can of worms


----------



## BlueTarp (Aug 12, 2012)

hotrod62 said:


> so sorry you have took my response the wrong way




I don't believe I in any way misconstrued what you said.



hotrod62 said:


> i just bought a great looking original 1947 shapleigh special i plan on keeping the bike for myself to show it's obvious it was a Columbia westfield built bicycle badged for shapleigh so instead of countless people looking down at the badge and scratching their head head  saying shapleigh  never heard of them i re badged it as a well known Columbia that most every one is familiar




You rebadged your bike. The problem as I see it is that whether you changed the badge for profit, personal taste, or because you want quick brand recognition at a show; the reason is ultimately immaterial. The result is another bike that has been striped of it's true identity and history. Your great looking original 1947 Shapleigh is no longer original and if you perpetuate a lie by showing it as something it is not then how are you a good steward of bicycle history. 

In this Hobby I think we are all worms trying to find our place in can of Bicycle History. We all wriggle our own way and if we value the the can, we need to be aware of how our actions impact it.


----------



## hotrod62 (Aug 12, 2012)

ok i see theirs no end to this this.here's a  good one for you this is my 1941 Schwinn built American flyer bicycle that I installed a Schwinn decal on the side of the tank did it come out like that probably not. do i like yep i have a cool 1940s Huffman built western flyer that i have skulls on the tank and brite non original orange paint did the devil mfg the bike no its just my taste 
 i think its time  for me to move on thanks for your opinion but  i will and any other bike guy will continue to modify their bikes as they see fit. i think i need a few cold ones and maybe a xanax i'll be ok i hope you will to


----------



## BlueTarp (Aug 12, 2012)

hotrod62 said:


> I'm just simply saying if a bike is badged as a well known its more appealing then a no name. I'm not saying go change the badges on all your bikes to evinrude for a large profit resale  or was i suggesting for the seller to change it. maybe for him to mention it was mfg by xxx and badged as xxx




I do agree that the identity of a bike as described by it's badge can make the bike more appealing to some people. In the case of a Harley the recognition brings a lot of people in from another arena. In the case of Schwinn (and to a lesser degree Columbia) it backs up what most people will think the bike is anyway. In the case of a lot of other brands the only people who have any knowledge of the name are probably people that are already in this hobby. 

If you intend on showing a bike as an historic artifact and value the actual history of our bicycles then I think it it very important to give people the actual history of what they are looking at rather than mislead them with intentionally rebadged examples for a revisionist show and tell. You may find the person scratching their head is more likely to ask a question that will lead to a good conversation than the person that walks by because they have seen one of those before. 



hotrod62 said:


> i have seen so many bikes modified and badly miss matched  and so on but yet i don't or wont put down or make neg comets about their bike. to each their own i do see where your coming from and understand your point




Nor do I, everyone is ultimately free to do what they want in this hobby and I find many ratrods, customs and replicas that I like and others that I don't, I spend a lot of my conversation identifying bikes and parts and I don't typically go out of my way to offer positive or negative comments about bikes themselves. I do find that the philosophical underbelly of the hobby interests me and I am more inclined to speak my mind on topics related to that aspect of our endeavors.


----------



## BlueTarp (Aug 12, 2012)

I’m OK

And I do hope you are east coast; I’d hate to think this brush-up got you triggered to have to med-up so early in the day.

I also have to say this is the second time this week someone has told me that I have misunderstood what they have written which is something I actually find insulting. 

I was not calling you out on the custom bikes you have built, are building or will build in the future; nor do I have any strong feelings about anyone else’s work in that field. In reality all bikes that are hotroded, customized, refurbished or restored are done to the owner’s taste and even in restorations there will always be fine points that are not true to the factory original. If all this hobby was about was preservation, everyone in the hobby would have a climate controlled room full of dirty bikes with one missing fender and petrified tires.

What I was pointing out is my incredulity that badges would be swapped apparently for no other reason than to have people believe the bike you are displaying is something it is not. If you are displaying your devil mfg bike in public it is likely the subtext that it is a personal creation built to your taste will be obvious. An otherwise original, but intentionally miss-badged bike, modified to misdirect the public seems to me a case of deliberate deception and I see that as a crime against the richness and breadth of true bicycle history as much as anything. 

Anyway, you're welcome, I know my opinion is not likely to reverse the rebadging of your Shapeigh but I thought the sentiment needed to be put forward.


----------



## Rookie (Aug 12, 2012)

hotrod62 said:


> i think its all about the badge.  its badged as a shapleigh special some hardware store in st louis  that probably never made a bike but the actual mfg say is schwinn the bike would be sold in a snap  a lot of people have not heard of shapleigh so they think maybe its just a no name bike when it in real life is a quility made bicycle  i just bought a great looking original 1947 shapleigh special i plan on keeping the bike for myself to show it's obvious it was a Columbia westfield built bicycle badged for shapleigh so instead of countless people looking down at the badge and scratching their head head  saying shapleigh  never heard of them i re badged it as a well known Columbia that most every one is familiar with this should not be done if your reselling it maybe you should try selling under two names like   a 19xx Huffman built western flyer  just saying.....................




hotrod, 

What color was the shapleigh special you just bought? Mind posting up a photo of it, I'm just curious...


----------



## bud poe (Aug 12, 2012)

*"If all this hobby was about was preservation, everyone in the hobby would have a climate controlled room full of dirty bikes with one missing fender and petrified tires."*

Well, I'm halfway there...I just need the climate controlled room...
Seriously though, I fully agree that changing the identity of a bike _*that is not obviously a custom*_ _*or rat *_is a mis-step and hurts the hobby as a whole.  I think it's more interesting and fun to have the conversation that begins with "what is a Shapleigh", and for the ones who will just walk by the bike, who cares?
Also, I just want to note that I think the original bike in question is an awesome specimen and I wish I could afford to purchase it at this time.  I have a period correct Shapleigh tire pump that would go great with it....


----------

