# TOC Victor (1895?)



## Robertriley (Jun 25, 2015)

I just picked this one up.  Now sure of the year but I'm thinking 1895 or so.


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi (Jun 25, 2015)

Very nice ride!
I feel the year is about right...


----------



## Joe Buffardi (Jun 25, 2015)

Killer!!


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi (Jun 25, 2015)

Me want one....


----------



## vastingray (Jun 25, 2015)

Amazing !!!


----------



## mike j (Jun 26, 2015)

Very nice bike, a lot of interesting features on it, congratulations. I have an 1895 bike, the spokes are wired together & soldered also. Any idea of the purpose & time frame that this was done?


----------



## Velo-dream (Jun 26, 2015)

nice bike

for sale ?


----------



## T-Mar (Jun 26, 2015)

mike j said:


> Very nice bike, a lot of interesting features on it, congratulations. I have an 1895 bike, the spokes are wired together & soldered also. Any idea of the purpose & time frame that this was done?




Wiring and soldering the spokes stiffens the wheel by decreasing spoke deflection. A spoke is a column and the bending/deflection in a column is a function of its length relative to its thickness. By wiring and soldering the two spokes at the point where they cross, you effectively turn each spoke into two shorter columns, which are stiffer. It was pretty much necessary on the old wheels due to the 1 and 2 cross spoke patterns. Once you got up into 3 and 4 cross patterns you could achieve the same effect, though not quite to the same degree, by lacing the spoke in and out of the spokes it crossed. Lacing the spokes though each other, took far less time than wiring and soldering, so eliminating the practice was a big cost reduction for the manufacturers. However, even then, the practice continued, typically on racing models and especially on track bicycles, for that slight extra stiffness. Even as late as the early 1970s, Peugeot still supplied it's top of the line PX10 with tied and soldered spokes and many track cyclists still continued to tie and solder their wheels until the advent of molded carbon fibre wheels.


----------



## T-Mar (Jun 26, 2015)

After going though some old literature, I'm fairly confident that it is no older than 1895. That appears to be the one piece, hollow version of the Victor crank spindle that was introduced for 1895. The earlier version apparently had the drive side arm socket and sprocket mounting flange forging pinned on the spindle. Now, the strange thing is that 1895 Overman advertisements were also pushing their hollow steel rims, so the wooden rims may indicate it slightly newer. I did find a 1897 article mentioning wooden rims, though on a ladies' model, and inferring that wooden rims were also available in 1896. It also illustrates a Victor Crown crankset with a dual set of sprocket holes and crankarms that are reminiscent of the old design. Maybe the new design gave them some issues and only lasted a couple of years? While this is circumstantial, it has me thinking that the OP's bicycle may be a circa 1896 model.


----------



## johnnybentwrench (Jun 26, 2015)

Where the hell do you find this stuff chris??


----------



## Robertriley (Jun 27, 2015)

I'm always looking Johnny.


----------



## ejlwheels (Jun 27, 2015)

I think the diagonal badge makes it later than 95 (diagonal starts in 96 or 97).  The seat post style is later also (or replacement) and the fork is more like 1897-8, it does not have the forward sweep and curve of 95 and earlier


----------



## T-Mar (Jun 27, 2015)

ejlwheels said:


> I think the diagonal badge makes it later than 95 (diagonal starts in 96 or 97).  The seat post style is later also (or replacement) and the fork is more like 1897-8, it does not have the forward sweep and curve of 95 and earlier




Good point on the forks. However, I don't think it is as late as 1898. While bicycles of this age have almost invariably been revised to some degree, this sample has several major features that are inconsistent with the 1898 models. Based on the spoke count, the wheels are pre-1898. The sprockets are not the Straight-Line style introduced by Overman in 1898. The spoon brake was used only on ladies' models in 1898.

While there is always the possibility that it was totally rebuilt from a bare frame using non-OEM parts, that possibility seems relatively low, given that both the hubs and sprocket are definitely Overman product and from just a very slightly earlier period, when the frame and fork design would still appear to be correct.


----------



## wasp3245 (Jun 29, 2015)

Hello world it appears your nice Victor is 1896
Per catalog. 95 and 97 have different 
Chain rings. Posting a photo of the catalog
Page from my phone seems beyond me. 
Happy riding
Cheers Carey


----------



## Robertriley (Jun 30, 2015)

I might be up for trading this for a chain-less rider


----------



## olderthandirt (Jul 12, 2015)

the front hub is the correct version used on the 1895 victor as i desperately need this hub to complete my bike also a 1895 victor ,i have a couple of chainless bikes ,maybe we could trade ? mine are columbia versions


----------



## olderthandirt (Jul 12, 2015)

anyone have a front hub like this one they will sell ? contact me at 1-336-608-0810 leave message or contact thru cabe


----------



## T-Mar (Jul 13, 2015)

olderthandirt said:


> the front hub is the correct version used on the 1895 victor as i desperately need this hub to complete my bike also a 1895 victor ,i have a couple of chainless bikes ,maybe we could trade ? mine are columbia versions




I been doing some more research and those do not appear to be 1895 hubs on the OP's bicycle. The hub barrel is a much larger diameter than those shown in the 1895 advertisment. It is obviously not a case of artistic license, as the illustration is a very good match for hubs on circa 1894 Victor and Victoria models (see photo). This further supports ejlwheels' suggestion that the bicycle is slightly newer than 1895, though the spoke count still suggests it is pre-1898.


----------



## bikejunk (Jul 13, 2015)

really beautiful details on that hub and chain!  is that their"self oiling" chain  ?


----------



## Wheeled Relics (Jul 15, 2015)

the patina on those hubs is priceless


----------

