# CWC Frame to I.D. please!



## BWbiker (Jan 24, 2009)

*CWC/Shelby or Monark? Frame to I.D. please!*

This frame came to me with the Roadmaster Chain ring. It looks to have been a pale blue originally. The head tube hole centers for the badge line up with a prewar Roadmaster but I can not find any 39-41 pictures that show this frame with straight chain stays and drop stand ears in Roadmaster, Hawthorne or Western Flyer. Ser#G66419. Anyone know this frame? Have the whole bike? Please fill me in! I would really like to know. I was looking through the Evolution books and it looks like the only bike frame with all these characteristics is a 1941 Monark. Anyone know Monark's colors that year? Thank you, BW :eek:


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## militarymonark (Jan 24, 2009)

def looks like a prewar cwc frame


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## Brentville (Jan 24, 2009)

*Or a Shelby frame?*

Looks like my Shelby Hiawatha frame from late forties.


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## militarymonark (Jan 24, 2009)

I haven't seen a shelby frame that has the drop stand tabs like this frame. I've had two of the post war cwc frames and they are pretty much identical but without the tabs


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## Brentville (Jan 25, 2009)

*Sounds right*

My Shelby (?) Hiawatha doesn't have the tabs.  I thought the CWC frames often had a CW in a circle stamped in the underneath side of the bottom bracket?


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## RMS37 (Jan 25, 2009)

The frame in question is definitely one produced by Cleveland Welding.

The combination of characteristics embodied in this frame would place production between late 1940 and very early 1942.  The serial number is also in line with other frames from this time period. (The Cw mark only appears on CWC frames from the early 1950?s)

*The Front End*

From the seat tube forward it is identical to a 1941 3-Gill with the late 1940 through February 1942 shallow curve down tube, This front end combined with the upswept 1939-plus rear end is one of the most common prewar CWC frames out there. 

*The Rear End*

The rear end is the straight stay style that was introduced on the early (1937-plus and virtually identical to 1936 frames) CWC frames and offered in the catalogs until the end of prewar bicycle production. The 1941 CWC catalogs show the bent tank frame with the early straight rear stays and the curved down tube still in production. Substituting the 3-Gill lower top tube for the bent tank lower top tube would yield the frame pictured.

*Curved Front, Straight Rear 3-Gill*

Still, what is uncommon is to find the 3-gill front end combined with the early straight stay rear end. As I?ve stated before this is the least common variant of the 3-Gill. It does not appear in any CWC literature I know of or, for that matter, any other brand literature I have seen. 

While this frame configuration is uncommon I know of at least one more identical frame, also un-badged.  

Headbadge hole spacing varies on CWC frames. Hawthorne badges have horizontal holes; Western Flyers have vertical holes which are closer together than those used to mount Roadmaster and many other distributor badges. Badge hole spacing can lead to reasonable speculation but unfortunately in and of itself it will never be proof of what badge was originally mounted on a CWC bike. 

I believe the truth is that CWC produced a fleet of bicycles based on the varying jigs available to them. Some of these were cataloged Roadmaster models; others may have been produced in smaller numbers as Roadmasters or special order variants to suppliers and never made the annual catalogs.

For whatever reason this frame variant is uncommon and I am also interested if anyone else has one of these frames, a complete bicycle with this specific frame, or any literature that depicts it.

CWCfully yours

Phil


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## BWbiker (Jan 25, 2009)

*CWC frame...*

Thanks again Phil, you are really helpful! I bought this frame at the Iron Horse Ranch swap meet last summer. The guy was from Bend Oregon. I hope to track him down and hopefully he knows the details that are missing. Maybe he is reading this...If so please contact me! BW:eek:


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