# Clincher wood rims



## MantonSmith (Dec 6, 2014)

This has probably been asked before but are there tires avalaible that wil fit 28" clincher style wood rims from the 1890s?


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## slcurts (Dec 8, 2014)

*700c*

Generally, 700C tires will fit the old clinchers. 700C x 35 is the best match for the original 28 x 1 1/2" size - Schwalbe makes a Delta Cruiser in that size, and Linus also offers a nice one. 

To be certain, you could measure the bead seat circumference with a tape measure and divide by pi to find the BCD of your rims. If it's somewhere near 622mm, which it probably is, then 700C should fit. There are some 28 x 1 1/2" tires advertised on eBay right now, but the description says they are made to fit 635mm rims and do not fit antique clinchers. If there's anything more confusing than bike tire sizes, I don't know what it is.


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## Duchess (Dec 8, 2014)

There are two kinds of "28 inch" wheels. One is the TOC style which should be the same as 700c, the other is the 635mm wheel which was on some British and colonial market bikes. Without looking at the ebay tires in question, I'd assume that when the seller says 635mm, that they are correct and those would be the wrong size. Wheel and tire sizes in bikes is incredibly confusing. It would be nice if everything just used ISO sizing as a default.


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## Iverider (Dec 8, 2014)

MantonSmith said:


> This has probably been asked before but are there tires avalaible that wil fit 28" clincher style wood rims from the 1890s?




You should measure your rims to be sure. It's hard for someone to tell you what fits your bike without actually having your rims in their possession. I've had early steel clinchers that fit a 27" road bike tire which is a 630mm beat seat diameter.

Sheldon Brown's info is forever helpful as he tells how to measure your rim AND provides a list of sizes based on ISO measurements. 

http://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html 

Let us know how it turns out!


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## Duchess (Dec 8, 2014)

Yeah I love this:

There are several different wheels listed as "24" or "26" inch that are no at all compatible.

A 700c is the same as a "28" inch (622mm) except when it's not (635mm).

A "29" inch is a 700c, just wider.

A "27" inch (630mm) is larger than the "28" and the "29" inch except for the English-style "28" inch!

I guess if this stuff made sense, fixing, restoring, and modifying bikes would be too easy.


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## Iverider (Dec 8, 2014)

That's why I recommended that he measure his rims. Then he can track down the tire. If you go around asking for 28" tires there is no telling what you'll get as English standards are different than the rest of Europe. I've seen tires on German and Dutch sites advertised as 28" but when checking the specs they're 622mm BSD.


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## MantonSmith (Dec 9, 2014)

slcurts said:


> Generally, 700C tires will fit the old clinchers. 700C x 35 is the best match for the original 28 x 1 1/2" size - Schwalbe makes a Delta Cruiser in that size, and Linus also offers a nice one.
> 
> To be certain, you could measure the bead seat circumference with a tape measure and divide by pi to find the BCD of your rims. If it's somewhere near 622mm, which it probably is, then 700C should fit. There are some 28 x 1 1/2" tires advertised on eBay right now, but the description says they are made to fit 635mm rims and do not fit antique clinchers. If there's anything more confusing than bike tire sizes, I don't know what it is.




Well I dont know what that pi and BCD stuff means as I am a old fart but I measured the bead seat circumference and got about    76and 5/8". 
Thanks guys for your input so far.


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## Iverider (Dec 9, 2014)

I got approximately 619mm diameter


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## filmonger (Dec 10, 2014)

As pointed out earlier by Krautwaggen ( He Knows through hands on experience ) 

......Sheldons thread ( http://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html )  really explains it well and in detail - also the charts are very helpful to most! I think keeping it simple is best. 

For those who might be a little lazy these Diag.'s from Sheldon's site should be of assistance in relation to Clinchers.







Tire width

Which tire fits safely on which rim?
[all dimensions in millimeters]
Tire width
Rim width
(interior)	18	20	23	25	28	32	35	37	40	44	47	50	54	57
13	X	X	X	X	 	 	 	 	 	 	 	 	 	 
15	 	 	X	X	X	X	 	 	 	 	 	 	 	 
17	 	 	 	X	X	X	X	X	 	 	 	 	 	 
19	 	 	 	 	X	X	X	X	X	X	 	 	 	 
21	 	 	 	 	 	 	X	X	X	X	X	X	 	 
23	 	 	 	 	 	 	 	 	X	X	X	X	 	 
25	 	 	 	 	 	 	 	 	 	X	X	X	X	X

Note: This chart may err a bit on the side of caution. Many cyclists exceed the recommended widths with no problem.


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## Lux Low (Dec 10, 2014)

*Your quick answer is NO*

It has been my experience that the old clincher do not match up with new tires, do all the math and all the mounting struggle and it leads to no. This is one of  the reasons Our new replacement wheels we sell are so extremely popular.
the old clinchers have no fudge room they are in the realm of 619mm and thats produces a goose egg on tires, i have seen it work when some one found some tires that were cheaply made and most likely were not the size that were labeled. Now 29"ers are basicly wide 700 c wheel and 622 tire  700 x 40 is close to and often considered 28 x 1 1/2" Then you have third world and english rims 28" x 1 1/2" that is a 635mm rim.  Lux Low is nor Dealers for Velocity, Wheelsmith,  and Schwalbe tires all innovative solutions for your bike, we are starting to list all the new product today, You may check our ebay store and pm we through here fore the cabe member minus ebay cut price. I am just listing the product so give me a few days 
Ebay store: LuxLow.Bikes Rims and wheels or LuxLowBikes Tires

I forgot to add this i think G&J wood covered clinchers can use a newer tire, so G&J wood covered clinchers i speculate is its own tire size.

tyler


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## filmonger (Dec 10, 2014)

Listen to LuxLow.....he has done so many restorations It boggles the mind - he too, talks from hands on experience. He also knows his wood wheels and is a fantastic researcher and photographer to boot. I have purchased antique bikes from him and have been very very pleased with my Bicycles. I find his products and solutions are top notch! Both Modern, antique and ratrod. You are in good hands with Tyler. 

Tyler was one of the first guys I talked to when I started making my own wood rims....

I only would like to add that there are.... a few guys here on the cabe that have had success with old clincher wood rims - never hurts to search the threads here on the cabe and see what pops up. Keep in mind though most of the guys do not have the experience that Tyler has.

 Never hurts to try though - as I say to myself everyday...there is a solution to every problem. Then again - no need to reinvent the wheel either!


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## slcurts (Dec 12, 2014)

Lux Low said:


> It has been my experience that the old clincher do not match up with new tires, do all the math and all the mounting struggle and it leads to no. This is one of  the reasons Our new replacement wheels we sell are so extremely popular.
> the old clinchers have no fudge room they are in the realm of 619mm and thats produces a goose egg on tires, i have seen it work when some one found some tires that were cheaply made and most likely were not the size that were labeled. Now 29"ers are basicly wide 700 c wheel and 622 tire  700 x 40 is close to and often considered 28 x 1 1/2" Then you have third world and english rims 28" x 1 1/2" that is a 635mm rim.  Lux Low is nor Dealers for Velocity, Wheelsmith,  and Schwalbe tires all innovative solutions for your bike, we are starting to list all the new product today, You may check our ebay store and pm we through here fore the cabe member minus ebay cut price. I am just listing the product so give me a few days
> Ebay store: LuxLow.Bikes Rims and wheels or LuxLowBikes Tires
> 
> ...




Man, just when I thought I had old wheel sizes figured out, I find out I didn't. I had not seen the 619 number before. So, the modern reproduction wood rims such as the CBITAs from Italy, are not in fact faithful reproductions but are 622 BCD (Bead Circle Diameter, for the OP) so they can conveniently use 700C tires. Clincher rims were patented by G&J in something like 1892, so it seems like most of the clinchers from the 1890's would have been from them, or at least licensed from them. Tyler, I'm not sure what you mean by wood covered clinchers - you mean metal-clad wood rims? I have a pair of G&J clincher rims from 1895 or so, and they are all wood. They're pretzeled, so I've never measured them or tried to put a tire on them, but it sounds like they should be some of the 619s we're talking about.

Stan


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## Lux Low (Dec 16, 2014)

I do mean what i say wood covered Clincher, and pretty sure it is called a G & J Rim, Has a Metal Clincher in side the Rim. They will also have a metal ring around the valve hole. I also Belive its not the same as the flat clincher just hands on observations.


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## barracuda (Dec 16, 2014)

I believe this is a wood covered clincher wheel:


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## filmonger (Jan 2, 2015)

G & J also produced these...just as an FYI





This is from 1911 Bicycling world & motorcycle review


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## Wheeled Relics (Jan 2, 2015)

The G&J cross section above shows why the iso would be slighlty different. Very good ref. thx

Here is an example of a steel lined wood rim (american wood rim ad above) for comparison, a wood hoop w steel lining,


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