# Racycle Madness, Part 2



## scrubbinrims (May 5, 2013)

So the stage was set at a small rural Virginia college town, where a local auction was held yesterday... the kind of sale that featured many things pre-WW2 from numerous barns and outbuildings, the kind of sale most of us would want to be at on a brisk, but sunny Saturday morning.
I found out about the auction only a couple of days in advance and in the listing there was a 1895 Miami Cycle wood rimmed bicycle that was mentioned in bold it was just pulled out of the upper barn floor, yet no pictures.
So I speak to the auctioneer and he reluctantly had an assistant text me some pics I had requested (bars, cranks, headbadge, saddle) the day before the sale and mentioned he would not have the time to upload any photos on Auctionzip.
I forward these shots on to Blue Nelson who was very helpful in value and knowing what to look for.
Perfect!  
I had the info and some money and no proxybid or online bidding, no phone bidding, the bike was added late so likely few would see it, definitely off the beaten path away from the heavy hitters here, with only an absentee option based on a loose description without pics for those that could not attend live.
So I made the 2.5 hour roadtrip and patiently waited for the bidding to begin on this bike, eyeing those who went over to look at it.
The auctioneer really tried to drum up interest in the crowd like no other item that day, but at go time, there were no absentee bids in...just me and the mostly antique dealers that were there.
It all happened at a lightnin' pace of $100 dollar increments between my card and only one other fellow until at 1300.00 (plus 5% tax), I lowered my number in disbelief at what had happened.
I approached the winner of the bike afterwards to offer my congratulations and to get an idea of wtf just happened.
He was a watch dealer having a few bikes, none earlier than a 50's track bike, so I was not up against a seasoned bicycle collector, not against a Racycle or TOC collector, just some guy who happened to want the bike more than me, someone who said he always wanted an early bike... although I got no sense he really knew what he just bought and at this price, I was just shocked it wasn't going into the space I had set up in my van.
Anyway, that's the story and I did win a few other things to flip and recover my investment in gas and time, but still shaking my head this morning at this random occurrence...or was it?
Chris


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (May 5, 2013)

That was a very good deal !


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## npence (May 5, 2013)

I think it sold for retail value no money to be made on that one being just a roadster not a pacemaker. I didn't think you where into those early bikes Chris.


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## Larmo63 (May 5, 2013)

That wasn't really a very good deal in my humble opinion. Just look at

the prices the two Pacemaker Racycles made at Copake. Those prices

don't help the Racycle market at all. You were probably lucky you didn't

have to pay that much for that wreck. I know how much it takes dollar 

wise to do a proper restoration on one of these rare bicycles. I'm still not

done.


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## looneymatthew (May 5, 2013)

*Cool story*

You cant win them all. but theres a better one just around the corner. thanks for sharing the story. 






scrubbinrims said:


> So the stage was set at a small rural Virginia college town, where a local auction was held yesterday... the kind of sale that featured many things pre-WW2 from numerous barns and outbuildings, the kind of sale most of us would want to be at on a brisk, but sunny Saturday morning.
> I found out about the auction only a couple of days in advance and in the listing there was a 1895 Miami Cycle wood rimmed bicycle that was mentioned in bold it was just pulled out of the upper barn floor, yet no pictures.
> So I speak to the auctioneer and he reluctantly had an assistant text me some pics I had requested (bars, cranks, headbadge, saddle) the day before the sale and mentioned he would not have the time to upload any photos on Auctionzip.
> I forward these shots on to Blue Nelson who was very helpful in value and knowing what to look for.
> ...


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## Wcben (May 5, 2013)

Sorry you didn't get one, one will come along for you... be patient!  Look at that Pacemaker that didn't sell on ebay at the end of last year and as said earlier, the two at Copake, you'll find a better one....


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## vw00794 (May 7, 2013)

*the hits keep coming*

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/3790357197.html


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (May 7, 2013)

Very overpriced.


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## Wcben (May 8, 2013)

That's a different variant Blue!


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## Larmo63 (May 8, 2013)

One piece crank Racycle........hmmmmmmm.....


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## led (May 21, 2013)

Hi,

I'm the idiot that threw all the $ at the Racycle Scrubbinrims is talking about.

Obviously I was pretty much clueless and overly excited. Too bad one of us wasn't there 

Anyway I am now attempting to clean it up and start learning about it and hopefully do the right things to restore it over time.

Here are a few detail pics below. The serial no. is 107926. Any hope of dating it? Can I still get wooden rims made for this? 

Anything I should be very wary of doing / not doing?


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## Wcben (May 21, 2013)

That looks like an armless Mussleman hub!  It's rare and desirable amongst us Racycle nuts!! Yes, you can still get wood rims, you have the option of newly made or, holding out for original or, if you plan on riding....maybe go for a set of the Stutzmans with the metal inserts so you can use newer tires and higher pressures.... There's a pretty dedicated group of Racycle fans on here (me being one) we'll help as we can.  I'll defer to Blue for the accurate dating but I believe you're post 1908 with those cranks.

Congrats on your new Racycle!!


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## Oldnut (May 21, 2013)

I have a stock original crank for this that's in 9/10 condition if interested. 
It's that's very crank.


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## led (May 21, 2013)

Thanks for the replies!

I'd like to ride this ultimately. Considering I already spent an arm & leg on it I'm going to try to keep the original parts insofar as they are still usable. I know there are different schools of thought regarding restoration - I'd like to remove rust and neutralize it but not sure I want to get rid of all the patina. It appears to have been painted more than once too...I think I see some red remnants and of course all the black. The bottom bracket has a goldish look in places??


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (May 21, 2013)

Appears to have been silver soldered where the gold color is showing.


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## led (May 21, 2013)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> Appears to have been silver soldered where the gold color is showing.




Is that normal? 

L


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (May 21, 2013)

Looks like a repair, unless Racycle got sloppy. I wouldn't think so.
Well fellow relic collectors!


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## Wcben (May 21, 2013)

I'm not seeing the silver solder.... The area at the bottom of the crank is still pretty messy, I don't see anything that looks like a repair though.....


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## fat tire trader (May 22, 2013)

Wcben said:


> I'm not seeing the silver solder.... The area at the bottom of the crank is still pretty messy, I don't see anything that looks like a repair though.....



Its hard to tell from the picture, but to me it just looks like some of the paint is coming off the bottom bracket shell which was brazed, not silver soldered. Aside from paint loss, it does not look messy nor like a repair. In addition, the bottom side of a bottom bracket shell is an area that rarely gets damaged. I have had to repair a lot of frames that cracked on the top side of the bottom bracket shell where it connects to the seat tube.


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## Wcben (May 22, 2013)

Maybe I should have been more specific, when I wrote "messy", I meant that there was obvious paint missing, dirt, grease still covering some of the crank hanger but I did say that I didn't see any evidence of repair.  Sorry for not being so clear.


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## ADKBIKES (May 24, 2013)

*Racycle find*

was called today from a guy with a racycle in 80% green original paint  missing the seat  said rims are straight and tires look good  I'm waiting on pictures . right out of a barn .  Is Blue Nelson on the Cabe?


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (May 24, 2013)

Good luck with your barn find.
Hope to see some photos.


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## Wcben (May 24, 2013)

ADK.... Yes Blue is on the CABE, just not all the time.... I'll send him an email to chime in!


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## Larmo63 (May 25, 2013)

Neat Racycle....You could lace new clincher type wood hoops into these hubs and ride

it to your heart's content. A thorough restore would be nice too, but costly.


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## led (Nov 7, 2018)

Reviving this old thread...I never got around to doing anything with this bike. I have gotten others including this Motobecane recently that are more my speed. My wife insists if one comes in another has to go out - so I'll probably get rid of it soon. I did want to add a few more pics /questions...the saddle is marked 'Racycle' on the top (faint but there) and also has markings on the sides (even fainter). Some tears/cracks. Worth saving? How to preserve? The rear hub is marked for Musselman Coaster Brake. The crank turns fine. The hubs seem ok. Given the twisted old wooden rims - should I just cut spokes or should I try to salvage some and remove with care? Sorry for the ignorance!


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## Iverider (Nov 7, 2018)

If you're selling this bike do nothing more than take good photos and post it in the Classifieds section.


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## led (Nov 7, 2018)

You mean do no harm? I get that but I wouldn't want to ship the twisted old wheels - rather throw those out. So best way to remove would be helpful.


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## Iverider (Nov 7, 2018)

led said:


> You mean do no harm? I get that but I wouldn't want to ship the twisted old wheels - rather throw those out. So best way to remove would be helpful.




Leave them and let the new owner decide what to do with them. If they don't want them, you can always remove them to save on shipping and adjust the price accordingly. IF they do want them and you've already cut them out and thrown them away and there's no going back. I've known people who have straightened wood wheels using steam/hot water and a jig.


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## pedal4416 (Nov 8, 2018)

It’s worth more to the next guy/girl with the original wheels. It’ll cause them headaches trying to find original patina matched wheels if they are just going to display the bike as found.
If the Mona Lisa had a warped picture frame, would it be worth more with a new frame from Michaels Craft stores or the original from 1503?
And please don’t cut those original tires off!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## led (Nov 8, 2018)

pedal4416 said:


> It’s worth more to the next guy/girl with the original wheels. It’ll cause them headaches trying to find original patina matched wheels if they are just going to display the bike as found.
> If the Mona Lisa had a warped picture frame, would it be worth more with a new frame from Michaels Craft stores or the original from 1503?
> And please don’t cut those original tires off!!!!!!!!!!!!



 I do note one or two spokes are already broken - not by me - but rest seem still attached. I won't do anything!


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## Iverider (Nov 16, 2018)

Someone buy this bike complete! Parts of it are appearing in the for sale section.


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## led (Nov 16, 2018)

A number of folks seem angry at me over parting out this bike. I want to address that a little: I had a sale for the whole bike. That fell through after discoveries made about condition when disassembling. The sale fell through due to that. So I thought to sell the parts given the less than desirable state of the bike. Maybe a poor call to some but I need the money now, I need as much as I can get and I was told that I'd do best by parting it out. I'm not rich. I have bills to pay and this bike - I was in the hole on already. 

I had all kinds of people asking questions at the same time - many multiple private messages. I did the best I could responding but the bottom line is that someone quickly wanted the saddle at full price and the badge as well. I get the belief that the bike should remain whole but there were (are) many issues - soldered bars, damaged rear hub, crack in a crank, possible other repairs, rust, dings and so forth. Destroyed wheels, tires and spokes rusted to death. Non original stem. Non original pedals. Not a pristine example! You guys haven't parted out? I know some folks who talk it but don't walk it. I've tried to be transparent on this and as fair as possible. Difficult given the barrage of messages back and forth.


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## led (Nov 16, 2018)

Perhaps I made the assumption that others would not be interested in the whole bike given condition and recent discoveries. The folks that pm'd me about it and made offers...they weren't that high and got even lower after condition became more apparent. I know the original buyer passed on it. Once people started clamoring about saving the bike - I'd already received PP $ from someone for the saddle and badge. I do feel bad but nothing I can do now.


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## pedal4416 (Nov 16, 2018)




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