# Assistance in solving a mystery.



## palepainter (Aug 7, 2022)

I purchased this bike this past weekend with the information that it was an HD.  It has been posted elsewhere in the forum under fake HD thread.  The previous owner didn’t likely know it wasn’t an HD.   I certainly didn’t pay what a true HD bike would have commanded.   Anyway, during my investigation I removed the badge, it was siliconed on as the effort to get the rivets in poorly drilled holes was a failure.   As I was sanding to reveal the old location, I noticed a white oval appearing As well as the location of the original badge mounting holes.  You can see in progression of photos.  Anyhow, the seller also had a bunch of other stuff I got from him, of of which was a deluxe flyer badge.   Strangely enough, it fit perfectly after I punched the old rivet remnants into the head tube.   Is this bike a prewar Schwinn built Deluxe Flyer?   Any input appreciated.  I’m really trying to make lemonade out of lemons here.  😀🤘🤘


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## palepainter (Aug 7, 2022)

Im sure it’s obvious, but it is not the correct fork as the frame this fork came from must have had a taller tube in order for truss bracket to mount properly.  Looks like a Davis fork.


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## palepainter (Aug 7, 2022)

Also found this AS Henderson ad with same graphics and color.


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## Drosentreter (Aug 7, 2022)

I think you’ve solved your own mystery, but I’m sure someone more educated on the subject than me will chime in.


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## palepainter (Aug 7, 2022)

It wasn’t as difficult as the last motorbike I had to identify.   Strangely, it turned out to be a Hawthorne built by GWM.  Everyone here was quite helpful with the information needed.  But it did take a but load of time to figure it out.   I’m hoping this AS bike will be a bit faster as I only have a month to build it out for a contest on another forum.


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## hoofhearted (Aug 8, 2022)




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## New Mexico Brant (Aug 8, 2022)

palepainter said:


> Also found this AS Henderson ad with same graphics and color.
> View attachment 1676638



Unlikely it was ever badged Henderson.  The Henderson (square version) badge holes do not align with the Deluxe Flyer.
I am excited to see what you do with the bike.  Congratulations!  It is also good to know one less faux-Harley is out there in the World making mischief.


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## New Mexico Brant (Aug 8, 2022)

Here is the Henderson badge:


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## palepainter (Aug 8, 2022)

New Mexico Brant said:


> Here is the Henderson badge:
> 
> View attachment 1676726



Thanks Brant,  I suspected the badge wouldn't fit.  But is it possible that this Deluxe Flyer badge is correct.  I have never seen an AS Flyer.  Really, what are the odds that I happened to buy the correct badge for this fake HD.  Would Schwinn plant use the same schemes on frames with different branding?  It doesnt seem out of the realm of possibility.


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## New Mexico Brant (Aug 8, 2022)

I think it would be very possible.  I never really paid much attention to who built my Deluxe Flyer as it was too beaten down after it arrived and I turned it in a sign; "lemons to lemonade" thread.  I will take a look when I go back to Hershey next.


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## palepainter (Aug 8, 2022)

hoofhearted said:


> View attachment 1676683



Yes Sir, 1 inch.


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## palepainter (Aug 8, 2022)

New Mexico Brant said:


> I think it would be very possible.  I never really paid much attention to who built my Deluxe Flyer as it was too beaten down after it arrived and I turned it in a sign; "lemons to lemonade" thread.  I will take a look when I go back to Hershey next.



Much appreciated.   Im going to go with it then.


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## palepainter (Aug 8, 2022)

So this is the breakdown on the real story of this bike.   1919 Schwinn built Deluxe Flyer.   Ironically, I purchased the badge prior to buying the fake HD Bicycle itself at the same swap meet and same seller.  What are the odds of getting that lucky.   The bike has a Davis fork apparently.  Will likely find a home with someone who needs it.    The head tube on the Davis must have been about a half of an inch longer than the Schwinn built frame. This research went faster than I anticipated.  I will likely restore the frame and fenders and build a daily retro klunker of sorts. I will do it some justice and post pics later.   Thank you all for your time and expertise.


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## dasberger (Aug 8, 2022)

I think it's more likely a 1922/23 Schwinn built.  Possibly a Hawthorne Flyer.  I think the Schwinn Built Deluxe Flyers were earlier although it's all a little fuzzy in the early AS days.  There are a couple in the Pre '33 AS & CO thread that haven't made the updated list.  Knowing the year may help you nail down how it was badged.  If I remember correctly the Hawthorne badged Schwinns I've seen were '24.  Nice project and if the badge fits rock it!

I'll add it when I get around to the next update









						Pre '33 AS&CO Serial Number Project | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

Greetings CABE Land and welcome to the Unofficial Pre '33 Schwinn Thread.  This has come up a number of times in other threads and mentioned again yesterday.  Let's get it done!  It's time to put together a collection of all things Pre '33 Schwinn and get a Serial # registry going.    Please...




					thecabe.com


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## palepainter (Aug 8, 2022)

From the 1919 Hawthorne catalog.  Exact match.  











						1919 Hawthorne dealer catalogue (32 pages) | Sell - Trade: Bicycle Parts, Accessories, Ephemera
					

1919 Hawthorne dealer catalogue (32 pages) also has all the available accessories pictures tell the condition, ask me questions or request for more pics in PM  sold as-is, as seen please check pictures and ask questions payment by cash, check or money order I do NOT accept Paypal anymore  USD$80...




					thecabe.com


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## dasberger (Aug 8, 2022)

Admittedly there is a pretty big gap in verified examples from 1918-23.  Yours does have the built in drop stand ears.  It's certainly earlier than '23 but I still think it's a little later than '19.  Wish we had a better grasp on annual production numbers for those years.  It will be interesting to see where it falls as more examples pop up.  I'd like to see a known 1919 Hawthorne serial # and font.

What's up with the crank that was on yours?  I know most likely not original


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## palepainter (Aug 8, 2022)

dasberger said:


> Admittedly there is a pretty big gap in verified examples from 1918-23.  Yours does have the built in drop stand ears.  It's certainly earlier than '23 but I still think it's a little later than '19.  Wish we had a better grasp on annual production numbers for those years.  It will be interesting to see where it falls as more examples pop up.  I'd like to see a known 1919 Hawthorne serial # and font.
> 
> What's up with the crank that was on yours?  I know most likely not original



it’s likely not original.   I have something else going on it.


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## Archie Sturmer (Sep 2, 2022)

Similar badge, frame, and 140k A&S serial number on a Colorado bike in thread below. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/help-identifying.190720/
What are the odds?


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