# Picked up this Old Armstrong Today...



## Schwinny (Jun 10, 2021)

Traded a few bike parts for this Armstrong today. Supposed to be a 31' but I dont know.
It rolls easily. the rear hub clicks away as it rolls. Armstrong marked hubs. The head badge is a decal though which seems to be later than 31' right off hand. Not in terrible shape all the way around but Im not sure whether it is worth spiffing up. I especially like the three speed derailleur situation. Parts might be a bugger to get here on this side of the pond.... in the desert.
Are there any Armstrong aficionado's that can give advice or help a little in education and prognosis?


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## all riders (Jun 10, 2021)

That's a nice bike. Flip-flop rear hub!


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## Freqman1 (Jun 11, 2021)

What sort of drivetrain is that? V/r Shawn


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## dnc1 (Jun 11, 2021)

Looks like an early 'Cyclo' Standard set up to me.
From the British offshoot ("The Cyclo Gear Co.") of the French "Cyclo" company.
UK patent.....






1931 UK ad




I'll have a look to see what catalogues the V-CC has from this era a bit later @Schwinny.
I know they sold just framesets as well as complete bikes throughout their history.


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## Schwinny (Jun 11, 2021)

I found a 1930 Armstrong Catalog on "threespeedhub" website but that site hasn't been updated since 2015 and is marked as a hacked site which can include terrible things for us to pass around so I'm not going to put anything on here, from there.
There was one model, #33 Tri-Velox sports model, that looked similar. It is the only one that showed or included this type of gear system. They called it the "Tri-Velox" but not who makes it for them. It also mentions "celluloid mudguards" and after I read that I went out to look, and these are actually the original celluloid fenders. Shrunk up as they should be after 90 years. At first I thought they were later plastic add-ons. I just tossed the bike on top of a load of branches in the back of my truck when I got it. Luckily, no damage to them. They are solid but shriveled. I guess being allowed to off-gas in the open kept them from melting themselves or spontaneously combusting as celluloid does. <corrected below>
I also thought that someone had flipped the bars as people do and probably spray painted them black, but the catalog shows all their bikes with these bars and many are painted black.
With the coolness of the drivetrain and the completeness of this bike, I may be in trouble...
I first thought I would pass it on or get parts to people that needed them but now... Im not sure of anything
I may be infatuated


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## Freqman1 (Jun 11, 2021)

It’s ok to go over to the dark side every now and then! V/r Shawn


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## dnc1 (Jun 11, 2021)

They look like 'Lauterwasser' or 'North Road' pattern bars. Typically quite shallow drops both of them.
On some of the 'Tri-Velox'  gear systems the rear gear cluster/cassette moves while the derailleur mechanism remains stationary, I don't think yours is one of that type.
Heading over to the V-CC library site now.


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## Schwinny (Jun 11, 2021)

Under further "un-embibbed" sunlit morning scrutiny that included more than a 60 watt overhead bulb, The fenders have the remnants of an Armstrong decal on the rear but they are not celluloid. They are super thin aluminum, Shark fin front. Perhaps added after the originals cracked up early on when Alum became widely used?
The derailleur reads "Cyclo B ham Patent" and the mount is bolted on the stay, not brazed. the derailleur moves, not the  cassete.
The rims are Dunlop EA1 that had a black 2cm wide stripe painted around the centers where the nipples go through it. And directly opposite the tube valve is one short spoke attached to a wheel weight attached to the rim.
All cables are cloth sheathed and freely work but are ratty.
Meteor #3 pedals
Fibrax brake shoes with Alum. buckets. later correct replacements I guess
Later Brooks cushion saddle
Original Black Paint, Remnants of a down-tube decal that is similar to a restoration decal I saw when searching. Block Letters but it is barely visible as an outline. The restoration one I saw read "ARMSTRONG - MOTH"
The wheels, crank, head, brake calipers and shifter/ derailleur all work freely
In the condition it is in, I think I could actually restore this bike with the one main issue being the cables.


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## 3-speeder (Jun 11, 2021)

Super cool. Definitely fix it up and ride it.  You got a keeper there.


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## sam (Jun 11, 2021)

Pre war cyclo gears had the large cut out the post war cut outs were in the "C" shape so definitely pre war.


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## dnc1 (Jun 11, 2021)

Can't find a 1931 catalogue.
1929 and 1936 are available. 
In the '36 catalogue,  as you mentioned earlier, the 'Tri-Velox' system was the only derailleur offered, on the 'Moth Sports' model.
I'm guessing your bike is an early '30's model with the period upgrade of a 'Cyclo' derailleur which would have been a top of the range conversion that would have been very desirable to any enthusiastic touring rider at the time.
There are quite a few 'Moth' models offered in '36 with variations in brake types, bars and colour schemes being the main differences.


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## Schwinny (Jun 12, 2021)

I've tried a couple different ways to pull this catalog off but it has been pdf'd and locked. I can put it on my computer but the file is too large to display here. If you just follow this link, it goes directly to the file. I wouldn't click into the site if I were you guys with a PC. There are ghost files and prompts there that aren't originals. I wonder if this is an old Sheldon Brown site. Somebody is paying to keep it hosted but is hasn't been updated since 2015 and is unsecure.
Looking at this catalog is fine though. I think the intro on the sight said its a 1930 catalog,  but inside the catalog itself there is a written buyers testimonial that starts off with "I bought my Moth in February 1933..." and in the front it states 1936 offerings, so I guess this is really a 1936 catalog. 
It's a pretty big file and won't display here.
I think this bike is as close to the model 33 as I can find.



			http://threespeedhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Armstrong-Catalog-1930-UK.pdf


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## dnc1 (Jun 13, 2021)

Schwinny said:


> I've tried a couple different ways to pull this catalog off but it has been pdf'd and locked. I can put it on my computer but the file is too large to display here. If you just follow this link, it goes directly to the file. I wouldn't click into the site if I were you guys with a PC. There are ghost files and prompts there that aren't originals. I wonder if this is an old Sheldon Brown site. Somebody is paying to keep it hosted but is hasn't been updated since 2015 and is unsecure.
> Looking at this catalog is fine though. I think the intro on the sight said its a 1930 catalog,  but inside the catalog itself there is a written buyers testimonial that starts off with "I bought my Moth in February 1933..." and in the front it states 1936 offerings, so I guess this is really a 1936 catalog.
> It's a pretty big file and won't display here.
> I think this bike is as close to the model 33 as I can find.
> ...



Yes, that is the same rider testimonial that is in the V-CC's 1936 catalogue.


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## Schwinny (Jun 13, 2021)

The guy I got it from was over today to go through some more stuff and mentioned he asked about it here so I dug into the search function and found his post. the heading wasn't Armstrong or Cyclo. Took a minute.
Other good stuff there.
The longer I look at it.......


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## Schwinny (Jun 16, 2021)

I've looked around for tidbits and have found the proper decals at H. lloyd in England. Other few parts I would need seem to be around also. I've looked quite a bit on the internet and cant find another bike like this one, none even close really.
If the war time metal drives of the 40's in America made pre-war bikes a rarity in the US, I would imagine pre-war English bikes are even scarcer for the same reason and more. Especially any that might have survived the Blitz in England.

So considering all this, I have decided that I will Restore this bike to its former glory.
Being as rare as it is, and seeing as the last few owners just let it sit, It seems to look at me harder than I look at it. I can understand though. Im sure all the previous owners were in a quandary as to how to restore it. Especially considering the time it spent hidden away pre-internet. It will be much easier to restore it today than it would have been 20 years ago.

So the first thing I did was get tires and tubes to ride it around a little.
I went to my favorite local bike store and got a pair of nice 590/37 tires and tubes.
Wrong.
The previous tires were American Goodyears from the 1960's and didn't have an ISO size on them so I assumed. 
Turns out its worse than I thought in the tire category. The 590 selection was surprisingly deep. the shop had 4 different kinds and styles. But the horn honked loud, when I brought a good pair home and after a minute of looking at them placed next to the rims it was obvious they weren't going to fit.
I now know that S5 and S6 Schwinn rims were patterned after the Dunlop EA1 rims, which is what I have on this bike. 
Knocks the tire choices down to one. 597/37
I thought to myself..... at least I have a grip of those hanging... outside... in Arizona.
Honk Again. As I looked at each one of the 6 different "good" older ones I had, including one I bought just 2 years ago and was on a rim... All cracked beyond use. A good reason to keep all this stuff inside the house... not.
So, two new tires and two new thorn proof tubes (a must around here) later, I scooted it down the street and ran it through a couple paces. Both hand brakes work and all 3 gears find their teeth. But if you overshoot 3rd, the chain binds between the frame and the derailleur. Hmmmm.

I've got a couple questions for pre-war bike enthusiasts, if there are any here in the International bike section.

#1 - The finish in the 36' catalog says it was dipped, in enamel I imagine. And then perhaps baked, I dont know.
So should I spray it black enamel, or have it powder coated? Paint is going to attract chips and scuffs. I've powder coated bikes before and although it still chips and scratches, it takes 4 times the effort to do it.
This bike is going to be ridden, I'm going to pimp it all over town.
Also, in the same vein, The decals, including the head badge decal are free standing and old timey thick. New ones will be water slide (super thin) or vinyl. Hopefully I can get 2mil vinyl. That willl look proper, but should I clear coat the paint and decals?

#2 - The bright parts. some look nickel and some look chrome. All are nearly completely chipped off and rusted. 
Chrome was new in the 30's. Should I have the bright parts nickel or chrome plated? The handlebars are factory painted black but could have been plated, per the 36' catalog.
Im leaning towards nickel, It's not cheaper, but it will look that era, more so than bright chrome.

I figure this will take till late in the fall to complete considering I have two others apart being restored and three for sale which I will divert the moneys to help pay the bills this will incur. I'm figuring around 1k. The bikes are piling up and Im forgiving my own bike owning rules a little to get this one squeezed in.

The hardest thing to find may be the cables. Can anyone point me towards bulk metal cased brake cable? These are black cloth sheathed but I'll bet that won't happen.....
Also will need a set of Phillips Rat traps, a 16" (closed) frame mounted bike pump. White plastic (celluloid) was original and a pair of hand grips. I saw a pair of repop period European grips for sale on the internet not too long ago but didn't bookmark them and now I can't find them again.
There will be a few other parts also Im sure. These are just off the top of my head.

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give.
M/


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## juvela (Jun 16, 2021)

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congratulations on deciding to take the thorough path

there shall be times of wait as you attend the arrival home of fittings from the plater and the sourcing of those "difficult to locate" bits

this will give you plenty of opportunity for cleaning a prepping the bits which do not have to go out, and for your build planning

the mention of "dipped and baked" finish makes me think of what Brits term "stoving" or "stove enamelling" - terms which do not refer to using a stove but rather creating a painted finish like that seen on stoves

"Phillips rat trap pedals" - the Celtonia might be a quite plausible model; well made and attractive too.  sort of item Hilary Stone might have on hand...

we had a set come through the forum on a bike a couple months back -









						30s British racer/tourer, not sure of brand | International Bicycles
					

Looks 30s to me, but honestly anything between 1925 and 1946 wouldn't really surprise me. Hansell or Mansell leather saddle, 'Made in England' on NDS crank, interested handbrake, fixed/free rear hub. Has faint shadow of a crown-shaped head badge or decal, and two faint logo or maker's emblem...




					thecabe.com
				




vinyl transfers - very much a second choice. can be adequate to pass the "five metre test" but not the "two metre" one...

wrt clear coating over replacement transfers - you really want to resource this.  perhaps getting advice from the transfer provider.  have read horror stories of replacement transfers being ruined by clear coating.


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## Schwinny (Jun 16, 2021)

Oh....
I've ruined a few things, and many decals both water slide and vinyl. Its not the clear coat, its me having only one hand to work with. My right arm doesn't work so well anymore. Its pretty much a hapless helper when I concentrate. But a destructive menace if not. 
I've gotten real good at clear coating decals. A small bit of temperance and then add a bit more patience. After many trials and errors, many, many, I have acrylic bike painting down to a science. I've done quite a few and re-done quite a few.
The coats meld when done right, including the clear over top. The end result is, as hard, if not harder than new bike original paint and is easily repaired with no notice if there is a scratch or chip. 
Modern acrylic paints are great as long as you'e gone through every way you can mess it up and have learned how not to and how they react under what conditions 
Enamels and water slide, not so much. Laquers... eh. they are ok but vinyls hate it if not done in a weeks time. Tedious.

Thanks for that Phillips pedal sheet, I'll be looking around for those or similar.


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## dnc1 (Jun 17, 2021)

Hi,
Enamelled bikes did pass through a paint oven to cure the paint .
Some frame restorers over here in the UK today still do this,but you are looking at the equivalent of $500 plus usd to get that kind of paintwork. 
As you say, powder coating is a very durable option, but it's so thick that you will lose a lot of distinction around the lugwork.

Chrome plating on bright parts appeared in the UK in late 1928, prior to that all parts were Nickel plated.

Many friends who have immaculate '30s/'40s classic lightweights invariably have black 'Lauterwasser' handlebars.  Originally these would have been celluloid covered,  but this is one area where they do go down the powder coated avenue.

Steve at Lloyd's usually includes advice on clear coating the transfers he supplies.

When you decide on a specific pump, grips etc. you can DM me and I could put you in touch with several people that could probably help you out over here.
Cloth covered cables are almost non existent at the moment, I don't know of anyone in Britain or Europe who supplies them.
You could probably search for decades before finding some.

Oh, by the way @juvela,  Hilary Stone has just got out of the bicycle business,  he's pursuing other avenues.
I believe "Golden Age Cycles" of Banbury, Oxfordshire have just purchased his entire stock.


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## juvela (Jun 17, 2021)

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@dnc1 -

thank you for the news of Hilary Stone

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cable casing -

recall that during the 1950's and early 1960's there was a type of casing widely employed in Britain which was of a clear plastic with a white fabric liner

if one purchased a new set of Gerry Burgess arrestors this is what came in the box

is anyone currently offering this sort of casing for restorers?

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## dnc1 (Jun 17, 2021)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> @dnc1 -
> 
> ...




I don't think so.
I'll enquire with them that use such things as brakes!


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## Schwinny (Jun 17, 2021)

Interesting and fun webpages to peruse. Hillary Stone and Golden Age. The models are in the top class and prices are quite high. Very dangerous stuff for me.
I woke this morning to a different idea about the cable, but one that will be set aside if I find the real thing.
Since the originals work, are not completely rusted, and my only complaints are the ends bent very slightly (which can be easily fixed,) and that the cloth sheathing is ratty in places and missing in others. I could strip the sheathing, clean the metal casing and paint it with a black textured paint....


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## jimbo53 (Jun 18, 2021)

Here's an old Armstrong that popped up on Facebook Marketplace. Pretty rough-looks to be single speed with trashed fork.


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## Schwinny (Jun 18, 2021)

jimbo53 said:


> Here's an old Armstrong that popped up on Facebook Marketplace. Pretty rough-looks to be single speed with trashed fork.
> View attachment 1431743



After researching Armstrong Bikes ad-nausem, That looks like a Raleigh made version from the 50's-60s.
When Raleigh bought them in the great consolidation of the 50's they took the Armstrong moniker of "the better bike" and turned them into one of their bottom wrung offerings. Maybe a slight to the brand, due to the competition they were getting from Armstrong pre-consolidation, I dunno. Thats what I've read. Considering what I've read on them, I wouldn't buy a Raleigh made model. No more panache'
Thanks for the eye out !!


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## Schwinny (Jun 22, 2021)

Update and a question.
I've gone full bore these past few days and done quite a lot on three or four projects.
One of them is of course this old Gentleman.
It is now completely disassembled except for the crank and BB. The whole bike came apart with ease. All except the crank. There was only two replacement nuts that Ive found and one missing. All others are originals.
The BB has been apart before, and the last monkey used a sledge for the crank pins. Not only are they roughed up real good, they are also in so tight I can't get them out.
In the past, right or wrong, when it came to removing crank pins, I have threaded the nut back on to the pin till it was flush with the top of the bolt/pin threads and used a center punch placed in the center of the pin, and hammer to tap the pin out. The nut being on so as to keep from mushrooming the bolt/pin. In leu of that, I would do the same with the nut except then use a wooden hammer handle on the nut (being flush with the pin/bolt) held vertically and smack the top of the hammer with a 2lb sledge.
Either of those have always worked.
Not this time. And they've been soaking in oil for two days.
First, are these pins in standard sizes to be replaced? I would want to do that anyway considering they were smacked in with a hammer last time and the heads are mangled. They are both also slightly bent. If I will have to re-use these, I will also have to re-shape the heads and have them re-plated with the rest. But first I will need to get them out without totally destroying them.
If they are easily replaceable, I willl take out a little negative energy on them.
Any recommendations along these lines?
The arms have obvious puller recesses so that should be easier.

and....
All bearings are micro... and loose, dozens of them. The headset has a BF load in it. I thought that everything might all be loose bearings so it was disassembled inside a plastic tote pan to keep everything together. Good thing too, they are no bigger than the head of a pin.
The frame and fork are very light. The fork rivals the lightness of modern ChroMo forks I have. The frame is not quite 8lbs right now and it still has the crank on it.
When researching dates, Ive noticed that the Armstrong bikes in the 36' catalog were touting Reynolds 531 steel. It cant be seen in the catalog pics, but if there were decals indicating that on the frame as there probably were, The first year for Reynolds 531 was 1935.  H. Llloyds has Reynolds pre-531 decals which indicate high manganese steel.
Considering this bike has a "Made with the highest quality British Steel" decal on the seat tube, I am going to say this is at least a 33' or 34. It may _actually_ be a 31' but I cant figure out how anyone would know.
UPDATE TO THE UPDATE
This paint laughs at stripper. And it is VERY thick. A couple applications later this showed up on the dropouts. To start with, you couldn't even see the nut scrapes
If that's a Jullian date serial Number, its May 3 1938. 123 seems a little convenient though. But who knows.
I can see pins on the stays going through the dropouts.
This frame is going to need to be blasted.


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## 3-speeder (Jun 22, 2021)

I like this cotter press and he has quality cotters too. Cotters likely to be 9.5mm.  Fairly standard size for brit bikes.
I have had to drill out a few cotter pins. Be careful to drill down the center if you do this and start small and work your way up regarding bit size.




__





						BikeSmith Design and Fabrication
					





					bikesmithdesign.com


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## Schwinny (Jun 22, 2021)

3-speeder said:


> I like this cotter press and he has quality cotters too. Cotters likely to be 9.5mm.  Fairly standard size for brit bikes.
> I have had to drill out a few cotter pins. Be careful to drill down the center if you do this and start small and work your way up regarding bit size.
> 
> 
> ...



PERFECT !!
Thank You.
I got them out. The rest came off by hand. go figure
Bayliss Wiley BB
The frame completely bare weighs 5lbs exactly.


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## 3-speeder (Jun 23, 2021)

I just started working on an old Brit bike myself.  Mine has a B W front hub.  So far so good on the disassembly.  I'll update my post as soon as I get some pictures.  https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/w...ies-royal-enfield-with-undated-sa-hub.191625/


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## Schwinny (Jul 8, 2021)

Light update on the progress and thought process.
I've found a pair of vintage Phillips Apollo Pedals that look pretty close to the ones in the picture that's in the 36' Catalog. Traded a CABE'r an old saddle for them. They were standard rusty funky but cleaned up real nice. Couldn't help myself though, so I have a NOS set of end caps coming for them since the end caps are a little scuffy.

After full disassembly, the only thing questionable I can see has been done to the bike over its lifetime is that some ham fisted bike "tech" gnarled up the BB Lock ring and cotter pins. The reason I had such a hard time with the cotter pins is that one had been hand ground using the wrong kind and then smacked in extra hard to force the fit. You can see the grinding done to one of them in the pic. They are of course the size and style that aren't readily available now but I may have a line on a new pair. They are just a bit long so Im continuing the search for the time being.

The handle bars are  a slight puzzle since although I can see that several models in the 36" catalog are black, but the depiction of my model, #33 Velox Sport is a little ambiguous. They could be natural or they could be black. Further, taking them off, there is no black under the grips but there is black under the stem clamp area. It turned out that the bike frame had 3 coats of black paint which is factory paint, and someone had done a little rattle can touch up long ago. The handle bars have at least one coat of rattle can on them.
I have found an acceptable pair of semi-period hand grips I will use.

In the Resto, considering there isn't a lot of early info on these bikes, I'm going with the manufacturing practices of the time period. All parts sourced as close to the factory as possible. Armstrong was in Birmingham, and Bluemels was also. So I have decided that the grips, air pump and mudguards should be Bluemels. The reason I chose these particular grips is that the same time period air pump seems to have the same handgrip style as these handlebar grips I found. In that day, the word "plastic" hadn't been coined yet. Plastic was "Celluloid" and of a different consistency than any of todays plastics. My mudguards have a correct, and time worn decal on them that is the Armstrong label but they are definitely Aluminum. Most likely impossible to find, but I have found a few early shape plastic Bluemels that may fit the bill. I wonder if Aluminum was the thing in 38' and they switched over from Celluloid or maybe these were correct replacements sometime later after the originals were crunched up. Either way, it looks like plastic it is.
A vintage set of Bluemels "No Weight" or "Featherweight" mudguards are still going to be hard to find. I've seen them in larger sizes for sale but none for the 26" tire as of yet.

I still haven't decided on whether to use a modern highly catalyzed Enamel for paint or to have it powder coated. Luckily, the powder coating would be straight forward and the cheapest cost of powder coating anything, since Gloss black is a standard color and there is no extra cost there. I'm pretty good at painting bikes but I also loathe scratches and chips on my newly restored bikes. When you are OCD like that, its like a magnet for what you dont want to happen....

I've settled on the bike being a 1938 model considering what looks to be the Julian date stamped into the LR dropout. I don't think its the serial number. (pictured in earlier post) A Julian date serial Number wouldn't make sense. But maybe its not a Julian date, Im not sure. Ending with 38 and no other reference anywhere else on the bike is what Im going with. The other stamp, which is on the outboard of the LR dropout AND the inboard of the RR dropout can be seen In the pic posted earlier. "AT No.372o. With the "o"s up high.
Although stamped lightly in both places, there is no sign on either stamping that it had a P in the front which is what I first thought would be a Patent stamp or the like. I think the little "o" after the N and after the number 372 are like start and stop identifiers. Maybe combined with the end it would be the old way people designated # "No." Again, hard to say. Perhaps it is Reynolds style 372 Dropouts?
But altogether I am thinking that this was bike 372 for the year and it was made on May 6, 1938. All together being the serial number. Or.... it could be the 123rd bike of the year 1938, and it actually is the serial number all together.
I am thinking the upside down stylized "R" is a mark for Reynolds steel, but again, I don't know. The dropouts are pinned and brazed to the stays.
Any help on this or any other part of this bike is greatly appreciated !!


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## juvela (Jul 8, 2021)

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thank you so much for this update

wonderful to see the machine moving forward with such care and thought on your part  👨‍🔧🚵‍♂️

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Phillips Apollo pedals -

this model enjoyed quite a lengthy production life

at some point during the 1960's the pedal dust cap changed from chrome plated steel to black plastic

have never known a specific date for this; likely some of our Brit experts will have it...

here is a late type set on this Raleigh built Triumph of 1969:













						Phillips | International Bicycles
					

is this what is considered a light weight?  any suggestions to treat the rust on frame without harming the paint?




					thecabe.com
				




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## Schwinny (Jul 8, 2021)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> thank you so much for this update
> 
> ...



Thats good to know, thank you.


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## dnc1 (Jul 9, 2021)

The bars have definitely been painted at some later point in time.
Celluloid covered ones would be black all the way to the ends. Powder coating the bars is something that people now do in place of the celluloid coating, it gives a very similar effect.
The aluminium mudguards are likely to be later replacements, aluminium components are pretty rare on pre war bicycles. 
Bluemels are what you generally see on British lightweights of the '30s and usually of 26" size.


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## SirMike1983 (Jul 9, 2021)

I would take the aluminum fenders over the celluloid ones any day of the week. Those old celluloid ones get really brittle. I have aluminum bluemels on my '51 Clubman and love them. A modern plastic substitute, I think, is a fair compromise to make as well. Personally, I would not spend big bucks on celluloid originals if you plan to ride the bike much. I'd go with aluminum or ones of a more modern plastic.


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## Schwinny (Jul 9, 2021)

dnc1 said:


> The bars have definitely been painted at some later point in time.
> Celluloid covered ones would be black all the way to the ends. Powder coating the bars is something that people now do in place of the celluloid coating, it gives a very similar effect.
> The aluminium mudguards are likely to be later replacements, aluminium components are pretty rare on pre war bicycles.
> Bluemels are what you generally see on British lightweights of the '30s and usually of 26" size.



Being that you probably have seen a couple of the Black bar style. Would the black color on the bars be a gloss similar to the frame? Satin, Flat?
Although a very good depiction, I can't tell by the drawing of the bike in the 36' catalog whether the stem was black or chromed. Some of the bikes in the catalog are definitely at least natural but some look black. My stem was the rustiest thing on the bike but I did detect what looked like  black color in places before I dipped it. It is very light tube steel with brazed on clamp nibs.


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## juvela (Jul 9, 2021)

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speaking of black finishes...

in this image the bottom bracket cups are clearly black oxide while the lockring shows a different finish

is it painted/dipped/other?






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## Schwinny (Jul 9, 2021)

SirMike1983 said:


> I would take the aluminum fenders over the celluloid ones any day of the week. Those old celluloid ones get really brittle. I have aluminum bluemels on my '51 Clubman and love them. A modern plastic substitute, I think, is a fair compromise to make as well. Personally, I would not spend big bucks on celluloid originals if you plan to ride the bike much. I'd go with aluminum or ones of a more modern plastic.



I've found a couple sets of  50's / 60's plastic versions but not stamped Bluemels. Most likely Britannia it seems, which I think was in league with Hercules company from what I read. Direct competition so Im standoffish on those. The older parts get, the more pricey things become and Ive been stuck with stuff before that I cant use so Im going to be a little picky. Id try and straighten the ones I have but there are pieces missing. Also they are/were white whereas the catalog states black w/ white safety rear piece. With modern paints I can change the color of plastic fenders so Im not stuck on a color. They just seem to be the parts that are the most often crunched. Mine probably are post war fenders They are shark fin front style whereas the catalog shows pointed front. I do have an early steel pointed front fender that may see a little service if it comes down to it.
Also found the correct Lycette Aero saddle but it will need some work if I want to ride on it.... and I do.


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## Schwinny (Jul 9, 2021)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> speaking of black finishes...
> 
> ...



Looks more like blued, similar to gun metal.
Im going to have to file down the dents and burrs. It took a couple hits from the previous mentioned long ago pin pounding and the notches are gnarled up so Im not sure what Im going to do with it yet.
The plater here in town I use does all kinds of metal finish so I"ll see what they can do for it.
Im going to do all the plating in three groups over 3 months and I'll be going there next week to take the first batch.


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## dnc1 (Jul 10, 2021)

SirMike1983 said:


> I would take the aluminum fenders over the celluloid ones any day of the week. Those old celluloid ones get really brittle. I have aluminum bluemels on my '51 Clubman and love them. A modern plastic substitute, I think, is a fair compromise to make as well. Personally, I would not spend big bucks on celluloid originals if you plan to ride the bike much. I'd go with aluminum or ones of a more modern plastic.



They do get very brittle and it's quite rare to see a bike that's regularly used with undamaged mudguards. 



Schwinny said:


> Being that you probably have seen a couple of the Black bar style. Would the black color on the bars be a gloss similar to the frame? Satin, Flat?
> Although a very good depiction, I can't tell by the drawing of the bike in the 36' catalog whether the stem was black or chromed. Some of the bikes in the catalog are definitely at least natural but some look black. My stem was the rustiest thing on the bike but I did detect what looked like  black color in places before I dipped it. It is very light tube steel with brazed on clamp nibs.



Usually a gloss black.


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## Schwinny (Jul 27, 2021)

More musings and updates....

After I took the frame, fork and handlebars to be stripped and powder coated. I woke up in the middle of the night with something I perhaps should have tried first on the handlebars.
The handlebars were "celluloid" covered to begin with, which I imagine was a plastic coating or sheath. I realized that I could have had them plated and then slid them into some properly sized black shrink tubing. Shrink tubing comes in dinky to huge sizes. A few minutes in the oven and it would shrink down fine to a soft rubber coating, a few more minutes and it becomes hard.... I imagine, to what the original celluloid would have been. I may still do that.
Waddya think about that?
After looking at the pics I took Ive decided to re-chrome the hubs, but at first, in hand, they don't look too bad. At least they arent destroyed. But The rest of the bike will be new, so those should be also I guess. Just looking for ways to cut a few corners monetarily. Im already up around the $800 mark and all the plating is going to put the bike into the 1500 range before its done.
Got a few more parts in from around the globe. So far Ive found parts in Greece, England, Canada and Thailand. Shipping is a MF though, it brings the price of the parts up quite a bit.
Since I had one front axle wing nut broke anyway and the cost of re-chroming or even polishing was about the same as new ones, I got a new set of exact matching wing nuts. Also got proper cable clamps as they were previously being held to the frame with hockey stick tape.
Another question I've been mulling around is what to do with the other wheel bits. Should I re-use the nipples, and if so, should I have the nipples re-chromed? Should I re-use the spokes? they are pretty rusty but will come clean to natural. And if I do, cad plate or natural. What about the rim strips? they are still usable and one of the coolest old things on the bike. Cotton strips with a metal buckle eyelet. very cool old stuff that survived.
Also found this vintage Bluemels frame pump in Bronze that I think I'll use. The two colors Armstrong was using then were black and bronze. Some of their models had the head center colored bronze. I think I might do that to match the pump. And maybe even color the fenders the same..
One point I found while pouring over the 36' catalog was that the celluloid mudguards were and option over "metal" ones. So perhaps my aluminum originals are just that.
I was amazed to find an actual Lycette Aero saddle. You dont see saddles like this very often. Its narrow like a regular racing saddle but padded and covered like a comfort saddle but with no spring action. I'm going to have to get it recovered though. Its it really good shape for its age but won't last long being sat on. One weird thing about it is that it has a patent number underneath and it shook out to be a Brooks patent Number.
Hmmm


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## 3-speeder (Jul 29, 2021)

I wouldn't bother trying to re-chrome spokes or spoke nipples.  Get yourself some shiny new stainless steel spokes and new chrome plated brass nipples and you'll be set.  Hubs look okay to me.  If the original rim strips were cloth I might go to rubber.  It seems when I take apart old wheels that had the cloth rim strips the inside can get very rusted because the cloth held the moisture right up against the rim.  Just my 2 cents.
Nice score on that pump!


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## Schwinny (Jul 30, 2021)

3-speeder said:


> I wouldn't bother trying to re-chrome spokes or spoke nipples.  Get yourself some shiny new stainless steel spokes and new chrome plated brass nipples and you'll be set.  Hubs look okay to me.  If the original rim strips were cloth I might go to rubber.  It seems when I take apart old wheels that had the cloth rim strips the inside can get very rusted because the cloth held the moisture right up against the rim.  Just my 2 cents.
> Nice score on that pump!



Thats a good point with the rim strips. These strips are proof that the bike saw little moisture in its life. The inside of the rims weren't near as rusty as I'd have thought. Just a little around some nipple heads, not even all of them. I'll have a few original parts I'll keep in a box to give to the new owner when I eventually sell it. I _am_ going to eventually sell it, so I'm a little worried about doing a proper restoration. 
I try not to "half-ass" _anything_ but one never knows what they dont know.


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## Schwinny (Oct 6, 2021)

Spent most of the day on this old guy. I think it will be done-ish in three weeks or so.
I picked up all the chrome plated parts today, they came out pretty nice.
The frame will be dry enough in about two weeks to start putting back together. It had some pocking from corrosion so I decided to paint it instead of powder coating. Nothing bad at all, but it would mess up a good powder coat finish. All it needed was a little glazing putty and sandable bonding primer.
In the pic of the bottom bracket bare, the paint was so thick there that you couldn't see the standing cast numbers. I read this sucker was dipped and baked 4 times. I thought I read 3 before, but the catalog definitely describes it as a phosphorous dip and then 4 dips of finish baked on.
Does that standing number on the BB reveal anything more?
If it can be all done by the 20th of November, I will ride it in the 27 mile part of the Tour de Tucson with other vintage bikes.


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## juvela (Oct 7, 2021)

-----

thanks so much for posting this update; wonderful to read that she is coming right along  😃

the raised number on the frame's bottom bracket shell is from the shell's manufacturer, Brampton

it is a stock number for the model of the shell and has no connection to the manufacturer of the cycle


-----


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## Schwinny (Dec 7, 2021)

Ran into a couple snafus so its been sitting a while.
The Spokes had to be ordered and I had to re-do the front mudguard due to some K-razy paint incompatibility. But other wise it's coming together nicely.
I have finally settled on this being a 1938 model 28 Moth Sport. To-which a Cyclo 3spd derailleur system was added later. The original chain was lengthened and the Cyclo gear set is dated 1941, which strikes a chord I me. Just think what was going on in Birmingham England in 1941, and here are hard parts for bicycles being manufactured there. Amazing.

This, and a peek under the covers gets me thinking.
I am going to need learned advice on this. @juvela , @GTs58  , @dnc1

After pouring over the 36' Armstrong Catalog until I can now recite it in my sleep, the identifying factor that makes this a Model 28 Moth Sport is the flip/flop rear hub. The Sports came with a fixed gear AND freewheel rear hub. That is exactly what this bike has. Stamped Armstrong and everything.
Also, stating in the back of the Catalog, all bikes can be had with many upgrades. The Cyclo system was one of these options.
So.
Considering that the Cyclo System is of a later manufacture and installation, Should I put the rear hub back to its original fixed/freewheel configuration?
Also to consider is that if I do put the Cyclo back on the bike, that is its home until the bike's next paint job. The clamps will divit the paint real good on the top bar and the chain stay. This lightly bothers me. Putting protectors underneath defeats the purpose of restored original and as you will see later when it is all together and getting its glamour shots, the paint is real good.

Any and all thoughts are welcome from anyone...

Heres a peek....


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## juvela (Dec 7, 2021)

-----

thanks so much for the update   😉 

image of cycle partially cloaked by blue plaid shirt is reminiscent of Tempest Storm performing a fan dance...

@dnc1 is sure to have some considerable illumination to shed here...


-----


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## Schwinny (Dec 7, 2021)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> thanks so much for the update   😉
> 
> ...



It's Two plaid shirts.... and and old t-shirt or two.  
Don't want to accidentally smudge all the fingerprints.....


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## Oilit (Dec 7, 2021)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> thanks so much for the update   😉
> 
> ...



Thanks Juvela! I looked up Tempest Storm and after reading about her then went on to read about about her fourth husband Herb Jeffries. Sometimes the people you've never heard of are more interesting than the ones you hear about every day.


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## juvela (Dec 7, 2021)

-----

Tempest Storm was fond of recounting her romantic evening spent with one Mr. Mickey Rooney

she spoke proudly of being able to coax "just one more," um, outburst from him quite late in their session...

oh that we should all experience such "difficulties"  😛


-----


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## juvela (Dec 7, 2021)

Schwinny said:


> It's Two plaid shirts.... and and old t-shirt or two.
> Don't want to accidentally smudge all the fingerprints.....




-----

ah, thank you for this clarification

they certainly do appear "veteran" and one would not wish to harm them in any manner or form...


-----


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## dnc1 (Dec 8, 2021)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> thanks so much for the update   😉
> 
> ...



Why @juvela thinks that I would be able to shed light on Ms. Tempest Storm and her considerable  fan dancing skills is beyond me!!!
But I jest, despite now wishing to investigate said ladies reputation a little further as @Oilit has done.

Personally @Schwinny this is a bit of a conundrum for me regarding your question on the choice of gearing.
As you may know I'm someone who is very keen on actually riding my bikes and therefore the period upgrade of the 'Cyclo' derailleur would these days be a most welcome addition.
I am also more fond of original patina and if that system was fitted to the bike when found that is how I would use it.

However,  the majority of my esteemed riding buddies and V-CC members would very much appreciate the high quality of your restoration work and would probably stick with the original fixed/free option that would have been the "clubman's" choice at the time.

If you're worried about damaging the paint, you can do what people did back in the day.   You often find on old bikes over here that when  period additions were fixed to frame tubing that a couple  of turns of cotton handlebar tape were used under the lever or derailleur clamp; you may still get a divot in the paint but it will be lessened.   And anyway this divot will only be visible when the clamp is eventually removed. 

So what I'm saying really is that either choice has its merits, both could be argued over as to which is more suitable "till the cows come home".
So whatever you decide will be the right decision.

All I ask is that you ultimately ride this lovely bicycle, and completely experience the pleasure of owning it.


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## Schwinny (Dec 21, 2021)

I have a question of correctness that I've been pondering and need input.

The bike is finished and together for the most part, but in line with my last question, I changed gears (so to speak).
I've decided to make this bike present as it was made. After-all, I've gone to all this trouble to bring back a pre-war bike that was basically intact. In line with that, the rear tire is still off and the flip/flop hub will soon have its original gearing.
I'm going to fully restore the Cyclo 3 speed kit separately and decide later wether to put it on or not. The shifter and bracketry is now a little jewel but the rest still needs help and shouldn't go back on the bike right now.
This is an un-usual thing for me in that my natural inclination is to make everything better, cooler and more "hi-performance." Thats all subjective though. This will be my first "correct" bike.

In-line with that, I've had a nag about the decals and its kind of an important question concerning originality.

The question is..... is this a Reynolds 531 frame and fork or not?
Important because there is a decal involved... or not.

The frame is obviously made of a high tensile alloy. That is evident by how thin the tubing is. At least half the thickness of a Schwinn regular mild steel tube frame I have here for comparison.
Comparison;
Schwinn 19" mens Racer frame and fork is almost 12 lbs (11.8)
This 22" frame and fork is 7.1 lbs.
A significant difference. Obviously different metals but is this 531?
531 officially launched in 1936. By the serial number, this bike is most likely a 38' (the Cyclo is a 41')

Consider the 36' Armstrong Catalog specifies that the models above the sport are made of Reynolds High Manganese "Super Steel," but does not mention material in the Sport description.
And the depictions of the bikes show some sort of decal under the seat. It says those bikes are delivered at 26 lbs. Also to consider is that the rest of the parts on the bike cannot be considered lightweight by any measure. Differences in the top level and the Sport models are fenders, brakes and saddles. There are weight differences in these parts for sure but "mud guards" are both celluloid.
The Sports are mentioned delivered at 29 pounds.
These are still VERY light bikes by lightweight 1930's standards.

Then there is the matter of the decal. Did my bike have it or not.
Here is a rub..... maaaayabe.

There were 3 decals still present. Head seat stay and rear fender. they were complete ruined of course and would flake off easily with a fingernail. The downtube Armstrong-Moth decal was completely gone on both sides. You could see the outline of where it was but until I found what it was supposed to look like I couldn't tell what was there.
when sandblasting the frame, this area cleaned off differently and you could easily see where the decal was but still couldn't tell what it might have said. The paint under had been protected for a longer time and was more solid.
The area under the seat at the seat tube was similar in that as it was sandblasted, you could tell that something had protected the paint under at some time but what it was could not bee seen. Hard to tell how big it was as one of the issues with the paint was a creeping moldy rust that was under nearly all the paint.
What was there could have been many things including a tax stamp, license sticker etc.
It was in the same area as depicted in the Armstrong Catalog being where the mystery decal would have been under the saddle.
So the real question is; Do I put a period correct 531 decal under the saddle?
The 36' Armstrong catalog was most likely printed up in 35' and didn't reflect Reynolds new # designation for their best steel. Before then would have been a "Best High Manganese" decal.

Tube sets and decals were most likely purchased in quantity and would be used up before new versions were purchased. Or at least marketed differently after the newer was available.
By 38' were they using 531 on the Sports also?
Were there still High Manganese frames along side 531 frames.... 2 years later...

Then....
As you go through the 36' catalog from the Sport models down, they all are listed at 29 pounds and don't mention the alloy. I didn't weigh this bike before disassembly.

My current idea is to have the correct decal on standby. Then when all together in original trim, weigh the bike. If it is significantly under 29 pounds, 531 decal. At or over, no decal.
Does that sound right?
Anyone have any other speculations or validations?

I think the reveal will be in January after the shakedown run.
Although H. LLoyd recommends it for their decals, I decide not to clear coat the bike/decals. It wasn't that way when new and this bike will only see sun occasionally. I think a thick coat of wax will be enough.


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## Oilit (Dec 21, 2021)

All I can tell you is the earliest Reynolds 531 decal I've seen is on this bike:








						CECIL WALKER 1939 - "S T A Y E R" | Vintage Lightweight Bicycles
					

Here's my old 1939 Cecil Walker Stayer bike which was the "only Stayer" bike that Walker ever built.  His own personal bike that I found out of Australia many yrs ago.  He sold it in 1956 to a couple of guys who assembled it and tried to do some high speed laps on the Velodrome there.  By the...




					thecabe.com
				



I've got a Hercules Kestrel with another decal, but I'm pretty sure it's post-war.








						Hercules Kestrel? | Vintage Lightweight Bicycles
					

I have $175.00 in this bike, which is more than I would usually put in an old English 3 speed, but this one has some features I haven't seen before. From what I've found on the internet, I think it's a Hercules Kestrel, and the date on the hub is 1951. It needs a lot of detail work, but I did...




					thecabe.com


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## Schwinny (Dec 21, 2021)

Oilit said:


> All I can tell you is the earliest Reynolds 531 decal I've seen is on this bike:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The first one on the Cecil Walker bike isn't even on H. LLoyd's site. They are the company with exclusive rights to reproduce Reynolds decals pre 85'. That was probably a custom decal just for that maker. Very CoolStuff.
The second is in their archive as being the Pre-war / Post war larger size, kind of square, and there is another size, smaller rectangle.
The decal isn't the issue though, they are all available from H. Lloyd, no matter which one
(except perhaps for that Cecil Walker Version).
H.Lloyd is about 531decals for bikes but 531 was used in many industries. Maybe the Cecil Walker bike is using an aircraft tubing decal ironically.


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## Oilit (Dec 21, 2021)

Schwinny said:


> The first one on the Cecil Walker bike isn't even on H. LLoyd's site. They are the company with exclusive rights to reproduce Reynolds decals pre 85'. That was probably a custom decal just for that maker. Very CoolStuff.
> The second is in their archive as being the Pre-war / Post war larger size, kind of square, and there is another size, smaller rectangle.
> The decal isn't the issue though, they are all available from H. Lloyd, no matter which one
> (except perhaps for that Cecil Walker Version).
> H.Lloyd is about 531decals for bikes but 531 was used in many industries. Maybe the Cecil Walker bike is using an aircraft tubing decal ironically.



I never thought about Reynolds using different decals depending on whether it was bikes or planes. Interesting!


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## dnc1 (Dec 22, 2021)

Oilit said:


> All I can tell you is the earliest Reynolds 531 decal I've seen is on this bike:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That decal featuring the airplane was only used on Australian bicycles. It is referencing the 'Reynolds' tubing made under licence by 'BTM', (British Tube Mills) of Australia .
They held licences to produce Reynolds tubing from 1938 onwards,  but production may not actually have started until 1939.
531 was originally developed as aircraft airframe tubing.
This decal was also used by other Australian cycle manufacturers such as 'Malvern Star'.


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## Oilit (Dec 22, 2021)

dnc1 said:


> That decal featuring the airplane was only used on Australian bicycles. It is referencing the 'Reynolds' tubing made under licence by 'BTM', (British Tube Mills) of Australia .
> They held licences to produce Reynolds tubing from 1938 onwards,  but production may not actually have started until 1939.
> 531 was originally developed as aircraft airframe tubing.
> This decal was also used by other Australian cycle manufacturers such as 'Malvern Star'.



I wondered what the "BTM" referred to, and I would have probably just kept on wondering. Thanks!


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## Goldenrod (Dec 22, 2021)

Great post.  I never payed attention in English class because I knew I would never go to England.  It now comes to us.


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## Schwinny (Jan 3, 2022)

Chomping at the bit.
This old guy is not bothered at all. It happily hangs in the corner and collects dust as if that was its main purpose. Looking across the glare, its real good at it.

Between the holidays and the Covid, my rims are in limbo somewhere behind the doors of a closed bike shop. I'll find out more about it today.
I recently found quite a bit more information on Armstrong and its bikes through an English enthusiast in the VCC. He wanted to add to his trove of Armstrong info, so I've been answering questions, taking pics and pouring through history and detail.
Once the rims and tires are back, all that is left is to wrap the brake cables, adjust the mud-guards and adjust the chain for a removable section with a 1/2" link. Then a good once over followed by cleaning and waxing. There will always be more to do, but at that point Im going to show this bike the town.

Cant post an update without pics... please excuse the dust and fingerprints.
As it hangs, it weighs 19lbs. The BB, Arms and chainwheel are 5lbs of it. I can't help think that with all modern parts, this could be a fully equipped 20lb bike. 
I have a great English leather tail bag and OG  grease gun for it also.


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## Schwinny (Feb 2, 2022)

Took a ride on my new bike today....

Actually I've been riding it for a week. It has even had its first smack from another bike.
There are a couple kinks to work out, and a rear fender to now repair and repaint, but all-together it is finished. The riding position is not bad, even with my one bad arm but I couldn't maintain it for more than a few miles. If Im going to ride this at all, it will have to have the bars flipped as a minimum. It will also need toe clips to keep my toes off the front fender.

Highlights of the build included finding out a lot about English bicycle histories, building techniques, features and parts.

I have conferred with the Veteran Cycle Club Armstrong marque' enthusiast and the model and year is not conclusive. There are no records for Armstrong bikes other than ownership and word of mouth.
I have settled on it most likely being a 1938 model and what was called a Moth Sport in the 1936 catalog, or, what may have been called a Moth Super Club as designated in the 1939 price update sheet that is available. The 39' price sheet no longer shows a Moth Sport.
The repro head badge and other transfers are close but not the same as the originals. That may also be a pre/post war thing.
Armstrong was a mid level handbuilt bike company from 1920 to the early 40's when they were bought by a company that also owned Phillips. They stagnated throughout the forties and were then used as trading fodder in the 50's as the English bike industry was integrated into fewer bicycle companies. 
Interesting to me was that Phillips was a parts and bike kits only company until 1939

Anyway here's the rundown.....
22" frame of chrome Moly Steel (not 531). The Fork is a Phillips "Super Club" model. Lugs are what is called chamfered fish tail lugs. This is the first rear facing dropout seen on an Armstrong, but of course there aren't many pre-war survivors. Actually none that Ive been able to glean from the internet. But then again, the owners of these are fairly old and not many are on the internet. More may show up in the future as they change hands to a younger crowd.

It started off as a flip flop 18/16t rear hub and that is the way I returned it. I was even able to find a period Bayliss Wiley Freewheel but it is one of the kinks to work out as it is growly in reverse movement. Almost no pawl sound as it freewheels, but something is not right in there.

The saddle bag came from England and contains a period Tecalemut hand grease gun as was supplied new. Also a link and a half for the flip/flop chain and a teeny crescent wrench named "weenie"

Period trends and fads are things like the clip style headset and stem (not recommended). The brake levers have a "mans' position hanging way out, and a black stripe in the middle of the rims was a fashion statement of the times.
Club riding was a big deal in England and these are the bikes that it circled around. 

Quite a difference from last June, don't you think?


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## jimbo53 (Feb 2, 2022)

Here’s a barnfind 1950 Armstrong Roadster as found. Headbadge almost looks like cloisenne.


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## juvela (Feb 2, 2022)

-----

thank you so much for this update

you have really done an outstanding job with the machine

looking very fine

was the marque enthusiast able to say anything as to what years this chainwheel pattern was employed?

did your research tell you if it would have come with a lighting system or was that a post-purchase option for owners?

is the white reflector on the front period correct?  it "appears" decades later than cycle but then have little knowledge of this era.

it may be just me auld eyes but it looks as though crank registration may be off by a degree or two.

thanks again for sharing it and congratulations on the wonderful job.

-----


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## dnc1 (Feb 3, 2022)

Fantastic job on the restoration. 
Would be very much appreciated on one of our local V-CC rides where it wouldn't look out of place at all. 
I think you need a nice small front battery lamp in place of that front reflector and a similar rear lamp and it would look straight out of the late 30's. 
I hope you have many hours of fun riding it!


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## Schwinny (Feb 3, 2022)

jimbo53 said:


> Here’s a barnfind 1950 Armstrong Roadster as found. Headbadge almost looks like cloisenne.
> View attachment 1562780View attachment 1562782
> 
> 
> ...



I think that decal on the seat post used to say "Peerless." 
This looks to be a late 40's early 50's Peerless version.


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## Schwinny (Feb 3, 2022)

juvela said:


> -----
> 
> thank you so much for this update
> 
> ...



Thank You for your kind words.
The only thing known about time lines for parts is what is shown in the catalogs and owned bikes. The ME considers this chainring a mid level fitment with Williams rings on the higher end models. In the 36' catalog, this ring is only on the Moth Sport models.
I personally like the Marque' specific chain ring. The bar strips that connects the tops of the "A's" used to have "Armstrong" stamped into them in an italic hatched style but it was a very light stamping and disappeared with re-finishing.
As far as the reflectors go....
These are the most expensive parts of this bikes restoration. The brackets and reflectors that are there are placeholders until I get a better job.
The two things that cost the most during this restoration was the chrome (no surprise) and anything still NOS or in good condition from England. And IF there is a part suitable, add a minimum of $30-60 more for shipping. Used English bike parts are generally rusty hunks that need a lot of attention. Find some NOS and bump the price of the rest into the ridiculous. But not the hard parts.... it's the accessories that are golden.
I Just can't spend a thousand dollars on an NOS front lamp. Especially when I cant find an Armstrong correct bracket to hang it on. A suitable NOS rear reflector hovers in the $3-400 range.
I'd settle for original reflectors and brackets. I haven't found any yet, but Im sure there are some waiting.
It would be great if the VCC had a site like the CABE. Its means of communication is comfortably nostalgic but is painful when trying to get information or parts before the year is out.

Prodded, I checked, the crank arms are straight.....


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## dnc1 (Feb 3, 2022)

I guess you are just unlucky with your experience with the 'Armstrong ME'. Many other 'ME's' are very fast acting. 
I appreciate your desire for NOS parts but considering you've rechromed many parts and repainted,  you could do the same with a lamp.
I've never heard of anyone paying anywhere near 20% of the prices you mention.


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## Schwinny (Feb 3, 2022)

Not sure what you mean by "fast acting"... 
He has been Johnny on the spot with the marque' information

Actually, I found the perfect lamp. A member that collects accessories. A Lucas 305 model, Integrated bracket and internal battery compartment. Right out of the 1939 catalog, NOS with box he priced at 600 pounds. Thats nearly 1k to me. And Im sure part of the "Yanks" special pricing.
Another suitable version was on Ebay UK but required a battery box. Easily modified to carry modern batteries within itself. My top bid was $250, and it would have cost another $60 in shipping. It went for 350 pounds, and no battery box.
Crusty ones I would throw away here in the US will cost $100. Im kinda tired of it now so I'll just let them be until I get another spark.
I will most likely get some old crusty pieces and re-do them eventually.
Im on a wind down now and putting things away.
Starting next month, bikes will be on the far back burner for a while.


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## jimbo53 (Feb 3, 2022)

Schwinny said:


> I think that decal on the seat post used to say "Peerless."
> This looks to be a late 40's early 50's Peerless version.



My hub is dated 1950 so that would be spot on. I would like to see what the original seat tube decal looked like. Here is a monograph of Armstrong bikes-I’m assuming it’s from the same era as mine because the headbadge shown is identical to mine. I really enjoy learning about all the backstories of old bikes.


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## Schwinny (Feb 23, 2022)

The Life of Moth.........
Hmmm...🤔

So the very first ride to the park to take pictures, I'm hit by a lady on an e-bike. Cracks the rear fender good.
I should take it easy, its just a bike..... I can fix that... again.
Took a couple pics and went home to brood.

A day or two later I went out again for a spin around the block and noticed a rear hub growl in freewheel. Moreso when pedaling backwards than when coasting. I played around trying to visualize what was going on and it got worse so I walked the bike home.
The freewheel was a score that started out on a bike store shelf perhaps. An original 30's-40's Bayliss Wiley 18 tooth freewheel, original equipment on this Moth. Then along the way, Hillary Stone wound up with it, and subsequently I bought it from Golden Age Cycles since they bought a lot of Hillary Stone's inventory.
"This is English Bike Jabber and I only know of it through the vine"

Anyway... it was delivered from the Mother Land in the original shelf worn box. Obviously NOS and never laid a tool upon.
Covered in dried flakey cosmoline, I imagined it full of caked 80yo. greasy mudd. I've gone over a few freewheels in my time and I didn't want to disassemble it, I'm one good hand short and they can be a pill to re-assemble with two good hands. so I submerged it in Synthetic gear oil for a couple days then drip dried it till I remembered it was there. It was put on the wheel a few weeks after that and its first break-in spins were VERY quiet and precise sounding. I never noticed a hitch in its action in hand.

I got around to it today and discovered the freewheel was going to have to come apart. I have another vintage period freewheel on hot standby but I really don't want to put a French Atom on there. At this point, that would be blasphemy.

This one was different from the couple others I've had apart. Took some pics because its kinda interesting.
I left it on the wheel and took off the cup/cover.
In the photo of the bearings and bars, when you lift up the cog at this point, there is another set of bearings and bars on the other side sitting in the back cup race. Once all apart, I found a piece of steel thread dangling that the bearings and bars were rolling over.
Lucky I didn't put a lot of weight on it. There were chatter marks in the dried olefin on the races but they were still smooth. Two springs, two pawls.
Back together and complete smoothness.
I like this bike.
It could use a 19 tooth freewheel though...


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## juvela (Feb 23, 2022)

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one good paw or two it's great to read that you got it sorted!   😃 

thanks so much for the update

btw - those _Drahtwerke Trefelreiss GMBH speichen _being worn by the wheel certainly did not originate in the United Kingdom 😉


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## Schwinny (Feb 28, 2022)

The spokes were the thing that actually took the longest. Trying to find original style etc.
I dont string my own wheels, I depend on my favorite family bike shop pro to do that. I dont know what efforts he took but after a month, he called and told me he couldn't find straight 15 gauge unplated spokes. Apparently spokes have advanced past being able to sell me the goods.
I'm sure they're out there, but I got increasingly more tired of the struggle so I settled.
Closest I could get was DT Swiss 16 gauge. And might as well go stainless. 
At least they are European.... 
No. don't tell me the truth.


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