# 1961 Coppertone Schwinn Continental



## Schwinn499

I picked this up the other day from the original owner. He was sad to let it go but happy to know it was going to a good home. These early 60s bikes are quite uncommon in the 24" frame. It was missing the og bars and levers and the original Ideale saddle, all of which I had in my parts stash so back to og spec. it went. Its gonna clean up great!


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## Metacortex

Wow that thing is going to turn out fantastic, can't wait to see it all detailed!

A couple of interesting data points on these: The '60-'62 Varsinentals had super layed-back 69 degree HT/ST angles, you should be able to ride that thing no handed sitting backwards.  According to the May '61 Reporter the Continental changed to Huret front and rear derailleurs starting on May 15th production and got a new paint/decal scheme at the same time, so this bike must have been built after that date. Continentals at that time used side-pull brakes (same as the Varsity), the Continental was upgraded to center-pull brakes mid-year 1962, but only on 21" and 23" models (July '62 Reporter). I think all sizes were center-pull for '63 and later.

What does that frame actually measure center to top? We know that the 19" and 21" frames were really 20" and 22" (the size designations were changed in '71), but supposedly at that time the 23" was changed to 24" in actual dimension. It would be interesting to know if that size did actually change or if it was 24" all-along.


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## Schwinn499

Metacortex said:


> Wow that thing is going to turn out fantastic, can't wait to see it all detailed!
> 
> A couple of interesting data points on these: The '60-'62 Varsinentals had super layed-back 69 degree HT/ST angles, you should be able to ride that thing no handed sitting backwards.  According to the May '61 Reporter the Continental changed to Huret front and rear derailleurs starting on May 15th production and got a new paint/decal scheme at the same time, so this bike must have been built after that date. Continentals at that time used side-pull brakes (same as the Varsity), the Continental was upgraded to center-pull brakes mid-year 1962, but only on 21" and 23" models (July '62 Reporter). I think all sizes were center-pull for '63 and later.
> 
> What does that frame actually measure center to top? We know that the 19" and 21" frames were really 20" and 22" (the size designations were changed in '71), but supposedly at that time the 23" was changed to 24" in actual dimension. It would be interesting to know if that size did actually change or if it was 24" all-along.



Thanks, ill measure when I get a chance.


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## momo608

It could not have ended up in better hands, a real time capsule. 

My 60 and 62 Conti both measure in at 23".


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## Metacortex

momo608 said:


> It could not have ended up in better hands, a real time capsule.




I could not agree more. 


> My 60 and 62 Conti both measure in at 23".




Duly noted, thanks for chiming in!


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## GTs58

Awesome acquisition! I have no idea what your serial number is, but looking at that rear derailleur I'll have to say an April or May SN and that is probably one of the very first built mid 61 Continentals. Never have I seen that derailleur on a Conti or a Varsity. Note the four tension prongs and the design/shape of the jockey cage. Also, that cosmetic design with the rounded arrow tip is hardly ever seen. Can't wait to see this one cleaned up!


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## Metacortex

GTs58 said:


> ...Never have I seen that derailleur on a Conti or a Varsity. Note the four tension prongs and the design/shape of the jockey cage.




That's how the early versions were built:


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## GTs58

Yes indeed, the very early versions. My Fall 61 Conti has the newer version Allvit that was used on the 62 and 63 models. .


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## Metacortex

GTs58 said:


> Yes indeed, the very early versions. My Fall 61 Conti has the newer version Alvitt that was used on the 62 and 63 models. .




Note that catalog page was dated April '62. You can see the same derailleur on this '62 Varsity: http://budgetbicyclectr.com/1962-schwinn-varsity-road-bicycle.html


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## GTs58

Metacortex said:


> Note that catalog page was dated April '62.




Yes I noted that and that old diagram sheet was obviously reused and re-dated. I've been researching these early Allvits for over 6 years now and Cody's example is more than likely one of the first Allvits shipped from France. The Corvette 5 speed also used this Allvit in the beginning, and it was later equipped with the piece were the arrow design changed, but still had the 4 prong jockey cage unlike the late 61 Conti and the 62 and 63 Continental, Varsity, Superior and Sierra. Here's the second 1961 issue for these early lightweights.


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## Metacortex

Interesting, so exactly what was the progression of changes on these early Allvit derailleurs? Do you believe the one on Cody's bike as well as the '62 Varsity from BBC are original? I noted one change where the Allvit name on the "arrow" was reversed:


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## GTs58

That picture sure looks like it's Jeff's, (Pedalsnostalgia) when he was fixing up his 61 Corvette 5. What was reversed is the word Allvit on the arrow, not the arrow itself.


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## GTs58

There is no putting faith in a diagram's date. Here is a diagram of the very first 1961 style Allvit outer cage housing with the *1966* issued Jockey Wheels and Jockey Cage. The 66 issue also had plastic wheels where this drawing appears to have all metal jockey wheels. Too funny.


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## schwinnman67

Nice Find!!


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## Schwinn499

Thanks for the nice comments guys. Ive been really lucky this year so far and have aquired some really nice bikes the last few months. Hope it keeps up, but have to let some bikes go here pretty soon. Ive revamped the garage 2 or 3 times now to make stuff fit but its just getting too much. Im nearing the 30 mark here pretty soon if this luck keeps up. 

So far this year ive found 4 complete or nearly complete originals which is what ive told myself I was going pursue from here on out... no more incomplete "project" bikes...they just ever materialize if I have a minty original to work on.

'75 sky blue sports tourer
'70 sky blue super sport
'72 opaque green sports tourer 
'61 coppertone continental

All in 3 months..

I cant recall exactly off the top of my head but it is a mid year serial from what remember.


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## schwinnman67

Schwinn499 said:


> Thanks for the nice comments guys. Ive been really lucky this year so far and have aquired some really nice bikes the last few months. Hope it keeps up, but have to let some bikes go here pretty soon. Ive revamped the garage 2 or 3 times now to make stuff fit but its just getting too much. Im nearing the 30 mark here pretty soon if this luck keeps up.
> 
> So far this year ive found 4 complete or nearly complete originals which is what ive told myself I was going pursue from here on out... no more incomplete "project" bikes...they just ever materialize if I have a minty original to work on.
> 
> '75 sky blue sports tourer
> '70 sky blue super sport
> '72 opaque green sports tourer
> '61 coppertone continental
> 
> All in 3 months..
> 
> I cant recall exactly off the top of my head but it is a mid year serial from what remember.








You sound like me.... I have a lot in the works also, but have sidelined a few to get a midweight done (66 Miss Teen) for my new lady.

Here's the project list right now

1966 Miss Teen
1966 Super Sport
1970 Super Sport
1964 Super Sport
1962 Racer (Rat Racer II)
1980 Continental


Can't wait to see some of yours get finished.


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## Schwinn499

F1, so June of '61

The frame is 23" seat tube center to top. Learn something new everyday.


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## Metacortex

Schwinn499 said:


> F1, so June of '61
> 
> The frame is 23" seat tube center to top. Learn something new everyday.




Thanks, so that means Schwinn built 23" frames up through '70 but for '71 and later they were redesigned as 24". The other sizes were always 20" and 22" even though for '70 and earlier they were listed as 19" and 21".


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## Schwinn499

I started poking around the garage looking for a project to start for myself now that I finished that Paramount. I have a choice between a few but I pulled this one down just to refresh my memory of what would be entailed in getting this beauty rolling. I started playing with the paint and decals a little bit, and cleaning up some of the chrome just to see how well things will clean up. It took a while because you have to be very gentle, but seat tube decal cleaned up near perfect. The blue and red surprise me, they are usually the first colors to go either by fading or rubbing off. It looks like the rest of the decals, pins, and paint will clean up very good as well. The only real plating issuses I see is the shifter hardware, its pretty shot, but luckily I do have some of those in the parts bin. Not sure its gonna be the next one up yet, I have a couple other really clean bikes that will just be a quick clean and overhaul so I might crank one of those out first, but I thought id share the update either way.


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## Eric Amlie

What do you use to clean up the decals?


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## Eric Amlie

Did you post about the Paramount that you just finished?
I don't recall it.


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## Schwinn499

Eric Amlie said:


> What do you use to clean up the decals?



Ancient Chinese Secret 


Eric Amlie said:


> Did you post about the Paramount that you just finished?
> I don't recall it.



http://thecabe.com/forum/index.php?posts/608394


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## Sigh1961

Sweet bike, I am sure it will look great when you get it done.  I was out and about today and saw a mid to late 70's Twinn that was in decent shape.  They had $500 on it. Does anyone know what the going price for these are?


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## Schwinn499

Sigh1961 said:


> Sweet bike, I am sure it will look great when you get it done.  I was out and about today and saw a mid to late 70's Twinn that was in decent shape.  They had $500 on it. Does anyone know what the going price for these are?



Thanks.

Not $500 dollars, thats for sure. Ive seen em listed for months on end at $200.


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## Schwinn499

Disassembled, cleaned, polished, and waxed. The paint, decals, and chrome are very nice. Got the head set reassembled and the shifters mocked up. 

I discovered something today. The headtube is brazed rather than electro forged. The joints are very nice and very smooth so it is hard to tell, but you can see the fillets in spots. There are no holes in the headtube like a stamped and welded head tube has. When I get a chance ill pull out my '60 and check it out also.


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## GTs58

Interesting find. I never caught that on my late 61 Conti when I had it torn apart.  

A Coppertone is going to look Bad Asp!


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## Metacortex

Schwinn499 said:


> I discovered something today. The headtube is brazed rather than electro forged. The joints are very nice and very smooth so it is hard to tell, but you can see the fillets in spots. There are no holes in the headtube like a stamped and welded head tube has.




Very interesting! It may be a lack of tooling for the 23" size thing, which would mean that 23" Varsities would be the same, Note that Schwinn also fillet-brazed the headtubes on the 25" Continentals in 1970, the early '72 26" Continentals (and Varsities), and the '82-'83 28" Continentals. 



> When I get a chance ill pull out my '60 and check it out also.




Is your '60 the same size as your '61? If so I bet it is also fillet-brazed as once they would have had tooling to stamp the headtubes they would have been electro-forged. If not then perhaps they had a problem with that tooling and temporarily fillet-brazed them until the tooling could be repaired?

It would be interesting to check '62 and '63 models since '63 was when they changed the frame geometry from 69 to 70 degree head and seat-tube angles, so all-new tooling would have been required.


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## Schwinn499

Some progress..


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## stoney

Eric Amlie said:


> What do you use to clean up the decals?




In the past I have sprayed Windex on a soft clean cloth. Just wipe GENTLY over and over and over and they come out white. The decal must be on solid though, no loose ends.


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## Schwinn499

My K0 (Oct 60) Continental is a 21" frame, it has an electro forged headtube.


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## Metacortex

Schwinn499 said:


> My K0 (Oct 60) Continental is a 21" frame, it has an electro forged headtube.




Thanks for the confirmation! It appears that the FB headtube construction may only be found on the early 23" frames. It was either done all throughout production of that specific frame version (up through '62, those frames were re-tooled for a different geometry in '63) or possibly was done for only a period of time due to a problem with the 23" headtube tooling. If anybody listening in has a 1960 through '62 Varsity, Continental or Sierra with a 23" frame I'd be interested to know if the headtube is fillet-brazed as well as the serial number date stamp on the frame.


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## GTs58

I'll be tearing down and checking out my 62 Conti in the morning. From looking at my 23" it appears to be fillet brazed.


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## Schwinn499

Progress this weekend. Finally got the chain rings apart, what a pain in the butt. Derailers overhauled. Rear wheel is overhauled and polished, just needs a rim strip tire and tube. Freewheel completely disassembled and overhauled. Nearing test and tune soon.


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## schwinnman67

Nice!


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## Eric Amlie

Wondering if anyone else has run across this.
I have a '61 Continental frameset that the routing for the rear derailleur cable over the bottom bracket shell uses a pulley similar to what was used with the 3 speed IGH bikes. This is instead of the cable housing & stops that are what you normally find on these bikes. I see Cody's '61 here does not have the pulley.


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## Schwinn499

Eric Amlie said:


> Wondering if anyone else has run across this.
> I have a '61 Continental frameset that the routing for the rear derailleur cable over the bottom bracket shell uses a pulley similar to what was used with the 3 speed IGH bikes. This is instead of the cable housing & stops that are what you normally find on these bikes. I see Cody's '61 here does not have the pulley.
> View attachment 430084
> 
> View attachment 430085
> 
> View attachment 430086
> 
> View attachment 430087




Eric, that is certainly odd. The tab looks to be a little different than a chain guard bracket. I wonder if they ran out braze on cable stops for a short while and used this to keep production running. That frameset looks to be in great shape, and your favorite color to boot.


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## Eric Amlie

Schwinn499 said:


> ...and your favorite color to boot.




Yes, it's Radiant Blue which I like even better than Sky Blue.
I wish Schwinn had made a '63 Superior in this color!


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## Schwinn499

Pulled a few late night hours in the garage and finished everything up. I always really enjoy cleaning up and overhauling those atom pedals, they always come out really nice and spin so smooth when you get them adjusted just right.


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## PCHiggin

Schwinn499 said:


> Pulled a few late night hours in the garage and finished everything up. I always really enjoy cleaning up and overhauling those atom pedals, they always come out really nice and spin so smooth when you get them adjusted just right.



Looks new, I'd like to find one


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## Eric Amlie

Super job, as usual Cody!
Always really like your lighting & photography as well.


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## schwinnman67

That came out great!!


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