# Anyone here own a Miami / Flying Merkel Bicycle?



## American Vintage Bicycle Supply

*The FLYING MERKEL Thread.*

I love the Flying Merkel bicycles and motorcycles alike.

Post your Pictures and knowledge here.

Thanks,
Tyler


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## American Vintage Bicycle Supply

Awesome

http://luxlow.com/bicycles/llwoodwh...cycle-early-miami-cycle-wood-wheel-bike-1950/


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## fordsnake

There are a few out there


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## American Vintage Bicycle Supply

Awesome pictures!


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## 2jakes

*1917 Merkal Bicycle*



Double Nickle said:


> I've been looking around at some pictures on Google of the famous "FLYING MERKEL" motorcycle and came across a bicycle. The picture took me to nostalgic.net.
> 
> http://www.nostalgic.net/bicycle416
> 
> Any Cabers own one?
> 
> Tyler







_1917 Merkel Bicycle w /rear motor @ $13,000.00_
eBay


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## Coaster Brake

What is that spacelander-ish thing Carlton?


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## Nickinator

1964 bowden-300



Coaster Brake said:


> What is that spacelander-ish thing Carlton?


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## Coaster Brake

Nickinator said:


> 1964 bowden-300




Huh, I didn't know there was more than one model.
Thanks for cluing me in Nick/Darcie


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## American Vintage Bicycle Supply

Awesome stuff guys. Keep it coming


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## hoofhearted

*1912 Flying Merkel Motorbike*

My pride and Joy ......................... 





Acquired this speciman in the late 1990's ... earliest example known ... Miami Cycle Manuf. Co. 
acquired The Light Manuf. Co. and began producing the Flying Merkel Motorcycle in 1911.

..............  patric


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## fordsnake

hoofhearted said:


> Acquired this speciman in the late 1990's ... earliest example known ... Miami Cycle Manuf. Co.
> acquired The Light Manuf. Co. and began producing the Flying Merkel Motorcycle in 1911.
> 
> ..............  patric




Patric...very cool bike! I've spent the last few days studying this rare bike. Is it possible this is a Merkel built bike and not a Miami Cycle build? It doesn't have the Miami signature drop outs and the split bottom bracket. Yet it replicates the Flying Merkel motorcycle. 

Joseph Merkel was among the most innovative of the pioneer motorcycle designers developing a patented spring front fork and the monoshock rear suspension, and your bike certainly has those winning characteristics; the rear mono spring, the sandwich bottom spring, the front spring actioned fork, plus that unique seat post...these all replicate the Merkel motorcycle!     

_"Miami Cycle Mfg. Co. began producing the Flying Merkel Motorcycle in 1911" _

My research differs:   

*1900* Joseph Merkel started in the bicycle business manufacturing bicycle parts. 

*1901* Merkel began attaching small motors to the bicycles and the Merkel Motorcycle was born. 

*1902* Merkel set-up shop producing single cylinder motorcycles. 

*1905* Merkel engaged in competition and produced several racing machines.

*1909* The company was purchased by the Light Manufacturing Company and moved to Pottstown Pennsylvania, producing machines with the "Merkel Light" and subsequently "The Flying Merkel". 

*1911* The Miami Cycle Manufacturing Company purchased Merkel, and transferred all operations to its Middletown, Ohio headquarters and continued building the Flying Merkel motorcycles and bicycles


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## frankster41

Miami built motorcycles under their name until 1909. In 1909 they bought the Merkel-Light Motor Co. and produced The Flying Merkel Motorcycle Through 1913.


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## American Vintage Bicycle Supply

This has turned into an awesome thread


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## 2jakes

Double Nickle said:


> This has turned into an awesome thread




Bicycles from a century ago...

indeed it is truly "awesome"...

Thanks !


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## fordsnake

​


frankster41 said:


> Miami built motorcycles under their name until 1909. In 1909 they bought the Merkel-Light Motor Co. and produced The Flying Merkel Motorcycle Through 1913.




Respectfully I disagree, here's documented evidence that supports my suggested dates.

*1908 *–Joseph Merkel was manufacturing motorcycles.



*1909 *– Light Motorcycle partnered with the Merkel Company  






*1910* – The company is still under the name Merkel-Light Motor Co.





*1911 *– Note the name hasn't changed, not until September!


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## fordsnake

Then there's this 1911 article!


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## Iverider

I love the line, "Why is the spring frame Merkel the only motorcycle which does not increase the revenue of the dental profession?"

Great thread fellas, and great Bike Patric!


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## bricycle

I love dat line too. Thanks Carlton....


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## hoofhearted

Thank you all for those swell comments.  Carlton, the bicycle DOES have the split bottom bracket .. none of 
the fotos reveal the hardware.  There is enough info remaining on the headtube decal to indicate the bicycle 
is a Miami-Built Merkel.  Also .. there is a brass, Model Tag above the decal .. can't remember the model number.
Miami Cycle rides often .. but not always .. have threaded chain-adjusters as part of their construction ... AND ... 
Miami Cycle Rides often .. but not always .. have a split bottom bracket.

Here are a few more pics from the Cabe .. a few have been leaned-on with Paint.Net ... Scott Mc snapped the pics 
when he visited my home a half-dozen years ago.  Also, the Cabe Archives has this ride listed as a 1913 .. in reality 
it is a 1912 Model.  

Carlton .. thank you for all of the literature you posted .. Good Stuff !!!!!!

................  patric


Post Script ... The SHORT rear fender is made that way ... the port and starboard, edge under-bends are mitered at 45 degrees .. top and bottom.
An interesting footnote .. when I picked up the bicycle, (delivered to a Perrysburg, Ohio - MLC Spring Swap Meet in the late 1990's) .. I found an exact-
replacement, NOS, rear fender for this ride ... on the "fender-boneyard-shelf" inside MLC.  The newer-fender is intended to replace the original that had 
acquired a bunch of welds in the area between the fender bridges .. sometime during it's lifetime.  During the exact moment I spotted that NOS fender .. 
a big-bosom lady with a Dutch accent informed me I had a square of toilet-paper sticking to my shoe .. and I heard a bell ring.


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## fordsnake

Patric, I'm obsessed with your bike, maybe because it's just so unusual?  I found this ad but it's rather straight forward, lacks the uniqueness yours offers.


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## hoofhearted

Carlton ... I believe one source of that ad is from a 1913 Spokane Cycle Supply Catalog.

Thank YOU .. again !!!!!!!

...............  patric


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## Gary Mc

*Flying Merkel Dealership - Toledo, Ohio, 1912*

The Bicycling World & Motorcycle Review 
February 3, 1912

Can't quite make out what the bicycles are though.....


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## 2jakes

*Toc*

















circa 1912. Metzger Bicycle shop. Detroit City.
_(Shorpy Archives)_


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## bricycle

ahhh, a simpler time when stores and women were thin..........


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## dave the wave

*here's one on ebay*

http://www.ebay.com/itm/antique-Lig...742?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item338603c3ae


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## American Vintage Bicycle Supply

Someone tell me about this badge.


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## fordsnake

*In 1912 Orange was the new Black*

I found this in a trade book for advertisers, it appears the first orange Flying Merkel was Miami produced in 1911 (sadly, no catalog)


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## hoofhearted

*Is ORANGE The New BLACK ??*

HOLY CRAP .. CARLTON !!!  To my way of processing thought .. this particular article is the "Holy Grail" of 
motorcycle/bicycle related scripts !!!  Have read it three times now .. and it seems EVERY TIME I DO ...... 
the value of stocks I am holding has risen ... gasoline has dropped twelve-cents a gallon ... my wife calls 
me Studley Do-Right ... and to top it all off ... I heard a bell ring !!!

Thanks for posting !!!

....................  patric


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## chitown

hoofhearted said:


> Thanks for posting !!!



x2


*"Long live orange!"*


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## fordsnake

*Happy, happy, happy!*

Patric, yeah it was a cool find, I'm happy to have made a contribution. I'm still looking for more source material on the Miami Merkel.

It seems the Merkle's color was yellow before they landed on orange...or maybe this reporter was color blinded from snorting too much exhaust fumes at the motorcycle race track?


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## fordsnake

*A Merkel hybrid?*

Note the rear drop outs (tension bolts, not banjo bolts) and the Racycle 1/2" pitch sprocket. Also the child's bike appears to be painted and pinstriped the same?


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## Gary Mc

fordsnake said:


> Note the rear drop outs (tension bolts, not banjo bolts) and the Racycle 1/2" pitch sprocket. Also the child's bike appears to be painted and pinstriped the same?




Carlton, This bike has had me extremely curious ever since I first saw the photo a couple of years ago.  I would love to know what it is badged as, obviously built by Miami Cycles but what was it badged.


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## Gary Mc

Double Nickle said:


> Someone tell me about this badge.




Tyler, Miami Cycle and Manufacturing Company was around from from 1896 to 1922.  They built bikes badged a Racycle, Flying Merkel, Hudson, RAMI, & their own branded Miami.  Not sure on the date of any of the Miami badges but here are some others I own.  The Ray was a juvenile Racycle model.


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## American Vintage Bicycle Supply

Gary Mc said:


> Tyler, Miami Cycle and Manufacturing Company was around from from 1896 to 1922.  They built bikes badged a Racycle, Flying Merkel, Hudson, RAMI, & their own branded Miami.  Not sure on the date of any of the Miami badges but here are some others I own.  The Ray was a juvenile Racycle model.




Gary, what is the one I listed worth? I might have a chance to buy.


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## fordsnake

Gary, I wish I could say...but it's really hard to discern from the original photos. It looks like a decal, more than a head badge?  
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/kempland/4bikeshop.jpg
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/kempland/4bikeshop2.jpg

Here's the two-tone color scheme for that model.
http://www.nostalgic.net/bicycle416

We know for a short period the Flying Merkel's the new owner the Miami Cycle Mfg. Co., used decals on the bikes and motorcycles.


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## Gary Mc

Double Nickle said:


> Gary, what is the one I listed worth? I might have a chance to buy.




Sent you a PM.


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## hoofhearted

*Is Orange The New Black ???*

..............................


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## fordsnake

Funny Patric...looks like you got a Maynard Dixon thing going on there? Dixon was married to Dorothea Lange and I worked with their son for several years.


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## American Vintage Bicycle Supply

This needs to become a sticky


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## chitown

*Miami frame???*

_Arrow Cycle Co Chicago, ILL_ badged. Arrow may have just used Miami for the frames as the fork is English/Mead style with the rib (rib is also on some teens Sears bikes)??? Note the CCM locking stand same as Davis, Sears and Chicago Excelsior's of the era.

Dave the Wave has a beautiful example of this bike. Dave's almost looks like that cadmium orange tint Patric's Merkel has vs the more yellow/orange of the motorcycle.







And some more Merkel goodies (pre miami buy out)


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## fordsnake

chitown said:


> _Arrow Cycle Co Chicago, ILL_ badged. Arrow may have just used Miami for the frames as the fork is English/Mead style with the rib.






I saw this last night. I was going to email it to fattommy, that star chainring is another Miami rip off.


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## dave the wave

this one is davis.


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## dave the wave

this is davis or miami?


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## chitown

*Arrow*

Dave,

I didn't realize you had 2 of those... And with different frame/fork/sprocket/stands too. Those are now 2 of my favorite teen motobikes. Arrow was a mysterious jobber that was using similar ads to Mead in the teens. It would be wild if they used both Davis and Miami to source their frames. Do you have pics of the bottom bracket/serial #'s? What type of rear hub do they have.


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## dave the wave

the orange one has a atherton,the red one has ND model A


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## hoofhearted

Don't know if Davis ever made a motorbike with a 7-inch head THAT HAD UPPER AND LOWER BAR SPACING 
like the tall-frame Miami-Built Arrow .. SEE ENTRY #41 and #43 of this thread.  

The tallest frame I have ever seen as a Davis-Built motorbike THAT HAD UPPER AND LOWER BAR SPACING like 
the tall-frame Miami-Built Arrow is dave the wave's Davis-Built Arrow ... (first foto in this entry) ... AND IT MAY 
HAVE A 6-INCH HEAD  (minus cups) .. as opposed to the 7-inch head of the Miami-Built ARROW.

The  SECOND FOTO Thru The FIFTH FOTO of the motorbike below asks you to read their caption.  This is a true, 
tall-frame motorbike that is a Davis-Built ... having a 7-inch head.  The last model year these were made is 1918.  
These five fotos can be found in the "Show Your Davis" thread .. the bicycle herein does not belong to me.

This writer has seen (and owned) some Westfield-Built .. tall-frame motorbikes .. that look like the tall-frame 
Miami-Built Arrow (dave the wave) ... and in both instances .. each sported a rather-large badge .. the edge 
made of 4-semi circles (like that one unusual Schwinn Lincoln badge) ... this rather-large badge said MOTOR-
BIKE in the larger lettering .. while the smaller lettering indicated a hardware store as the point of purchase 
origin.  The badge was of the STAMPED variety.

........................  patric


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## fattommy

*Miami bike*

Here's a couple pictures.  I posted these on the forum before, but this seems like the right place for them.
 of http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx247/swordsandsuch/tommys star/tommysstar001.jpg
http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx247/swordsandsuch/tommys star/tommysstar007.jpg
http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/xx247/swordsandsuch/tommys star/tommysstar004.jpg


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## fordsnake

Tommy's (fattommy) sharing his bike because I helped him with ID'ing it. Although it has a Miami Cycle Mfg. Co., "Star" badge, it also has the DNA of a Flying Merkel...many similarities.


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## fattommy

The Flying Merkel pictured in Carlton's post above indicates the color to be orange with black, however I'm sure my bike was originally green with white.  Otherwise, I can't see any difference.  Do you?


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## dave the wave

dave the wave said:


> this is davis or miami?




so the red one is miami,cool that's good to know.i am learning more and more about miami built bicycles.


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## hoofhearted

*Wha ??? ....................  I am so C-O-R-N-F-U-Z-E-D*











??????????



??????????


..............................  patric 



Post Script   "..............(?) ... (!!!)"


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## hoofhearted

*fattommy's MIAMI Motorbike ............*

fattomy ... your Miami-Built Motorbike looks to be identical in manufacture to the 1917 Flying Merkel 
catalog-illustration posted by Carlton in entry #48 of this thread !!!  Very, very INTERESTING !!!

That STAR badge Is The Cherry Bomb !!!  Wow-Wee-WOW-WOW !!!  I wish I could un-see dat thing !!!

I Won't Be Able To Sleep For Days !!!           ..... AARRRGH !!!

........... patric


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## fattommy

fordsnake said:


> Funny Patric...looks like you got a Maynard Dixon thing going on there? Dixon was married to Dorothea Lange and I worked with their son for several years.




Carlton, did you work with Daniel Rhodes Dixon or John Eaglefeather Dixon?


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## hoofhearted

*Aeroplane 1912 ...Cicero Field, Illinois ... 1912*

While doing some research on the offspring of Maynard Dixon and his spouse, Dorothea Lange .. those being
Daniel Rhodes Dixon and John Eaglefeather Dixon ... I ran into some fotos of privately-owned ...  circa 1912 
aerocraft that flew at Cicero Field in Illinois.  Being that my city .. Fairborn .. is separated from Wright Patterson 
Air Force Base AND Huffman Prairie (utilized by the Wrights 1904-1916) ... by the thickness of a chain-link fence 
... it is natural for this typist and former-wingwalker  to have a fascination with early, heavier-than-air flight.

I am posting a few of these early aerocraft .. with the hopes that the reader might reflect on motorcycle / bicycle 
design circa 1912 in comparison AND contrast with aeroplanes of the day.

Look ... right now .. I have activated the 'whisper mode' on this keyboard.  I do like to brag ... but bragging is 
rarely in good form.  We all know this.  Forgive me .. just this once ---- Everytime I peep my 1912 Flying Merkel
Bicycle .. I can never get rid of "Aeroplane Visions 1912" ... and my mind begins to tingle ... I start to sense far-
away gasoline-engine exhaust notes around me .. and can smell oily-exhaust in the air.  And as I went to open 
foto number 5 ... I heard a bell ring.

.................  patric

















O-kay - O-kay .... I lied about being a former-wingwalker ......


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## 2jakes

hoofhearted said:


> While doing some research on the offspring of Maynard Dixon and his spouse, Dorothea Lange .. those being
> Daniel Rhodes Dixon and John Eaglefeather Dixon ... I ran into some fotos of privately-owned ...  circa 1912
> aerocraft that flew at Cicero Field in Illinois.  Being that my city .. Fairborn .. is separated from Wright Patterson
> Air Force Base AND Huffman Prairie (utilized by the Wrights 1904-1916) ... by the thickness of a chain-link fence
> ... it is natural for this typist and former-wingwalker  to have a fascination with early, heavier-than-air flight.
> 
> I am posting a few of these early aerocraft .. with the hopes that the reader might reflect on motorcycle / bicycle
> design circa 1912 in comparison AND contrast with aeroplanes of the day.
> 
> Look ... right now .. I have activated the 'whisper mode' on this keyboard.  I do like to brag ... but bragging is
> rarely in good form.  We all know this.  Forgive me .. just this once ---- Everytime I peep my 1912 Flying Merkel
> Bicycle .. I can never get rid of "Aeroplane Visions 1912" ... and my mind begins to tingle ... I start to sense far-
> away gasoline-engine exhaust notes around me .. and can smell oily-exhaust in the air.  And as I went to open
> foto number 5 ... I heard a bell ring.
> 
> .................  patric
> 
> View attachment 120320View attachment 120321View attachment 120322View attachment 120323View attachment 120324View attachment 120325View attachment 120326
> 
> O-kay - O-kay .... I lied about being a former-wingwalker ......





................. patric



Rummaging in an old trunk, I found these...










 

 
These "home-made" images of days from long ago .



 



_...always keep the visions active !_


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## hoofhearted

HEY TO 2jakes ... thank you for posting some of your old rummagings !!!  

Those images of FAMILY from days gone by are priceless !!!

..... Thank you ..................  patric


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## fattommy

Outstanding.  Is that your dad 2jakes?


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## Gary Mc

*What happens when you crossbreed a Miami Bulldog with a Flying Merkel….*

You get a 1914 Flying Merkel Model No. 400, that's what.  I Love Miami's unique designs.









The arch bar version





1915 Miami Bulldog


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## chitown

Does anyone know the details of when Westfield bought out the Miami Cycle Mfg? Did they close the Middletown plant? or did they operate as a Westfield branch, taking on the clients of Miami at the time.


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## 2jakes

fattommy said:


> Outstanding.  Is that your dad 2jakes?




_Yep....& I miss him very much ._


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## fattommy

fordsnake said:


> I saw this last night. I was going to email it to fattommy, that star chainring is another Miami rip off.






I think the Flying Merkel chain ring is a little bigger than the Arrow has. No?

EDIT TO POST    After counting teeth in the pictures, both the Flying Merkel and Arrow appear to have 60 teeth.  Shows what I know-- I guess that pretty much makes them the same size doesn't it.


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## fordsnake

Does everyone dream in color?


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## Gary Mc

fordsnake said:


> Does everyone dream in color?




Damn, that is BEAUTIFUL Carlton!!!!!!!!!!!


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## chitown




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## Gary Mc

chitown said:


>




That one is sweet too Chris but I like the patina'd original better.


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## fordsnake

Here's the same bike posted above...I think it's a tribute, not an original? The frame geometry behind the seat post looks short...more like a racer compared to the 1913 ad?


 






Here's a restored original with a tri-spring fork and a Miami star chain ring.


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## hoofhearted

I love this foto, CARLTON .. Thank You !!!  ..............  patric


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## fordsnake

Gary Mc said:


> Damn, that is BEAUTIFUL Carlton!!!!!!!!!!!




Gary and Patric, thanks it's an illustration I created in Photoshop.


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## Gary Mc

fordsnake said:


> Gary and Patric, thanks it's an illustration I created in Photoshop.




Great work in photoshop then!!!!!!  & it's still beautiful, love it!!!!!!


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## hoofhearted

Carlton ... YOU ARE SUPER with that Photoshop !!! Did you invent the bicycle or did you start with a foto of sorts ??

WAIT A MINIT !!! ... WAIT A MINIT !!! ... It don't matter .. i can dream about it ... maybe i'll ride it tonight !!!  

...............  patric


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## bricycle

Good eye Carlton re: frame geometry.... resto looks to be more pre' TOC appearing.


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## fordsnake

Patric, it's a manipulation of several pics...oh by the way, when digging through the online archives I found a photo of you with your Merkel...very cool!


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## hoofhearted

CARLTON ... Dood ... you are the Master Chef in the Foto-Illusion Café !!!  

i am digging' this foto .. Carlton ... You're The BEST !!! 

Thanks !!! ..................  patric


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## tailhole

fordsnake said:


> Patric, it's a manipulation of several pics...oh by the way, when digging through the online archives I found a photo of you with your Merkel...very cool!




That's awesome!  It would be fun to see a whole series of 'Patric' doing stuff.  I had a serious laugh out loud when I saw this.


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## Larmo63

None of the Merkels seem to have the unique Racycle bottom bracket. While on the subject of Racylce BB's, 

Blue and I have seen four different, distinct designs. The machining on them is second to none, really

nice. Anybody got pics? I'll post my style bottom bracket.


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## Larmo63

Six screws on either side, exposed, no dust cover....


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## bricycle

Larmo...now yer just bragg'n......


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## fordsnake

Larmo63 said:


> None of the Merkels seem to have the unique Racycle bottom bracket.




Lawrence, I'm sorry but what constitutes unique bottom bracket???


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## Larmo63

Sorry, Carlton, I meant the Racycle type with the bearings inside the crank arms.....

Not inside the frame.....


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## Larmo63

I should have started another thread......

%$&*!?&!!!!!!

(My bad)


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## hoofhearted

Larmo63 ... Only the Racycle has those outside bearings ... the Flying Merkel may or may not have a 'split' 
bottom bracket ... my 1912 does .. and lots of observation in the field will inform the observer that the Miami 
Cycle Co. stable consisted of the Racycle  (company's top o' the line marque) .. the Flying Merkel .. the Hudson 
and the Miami.

One can also find bicycles in the Flying Merkel .. Hudson and Miami Lines having a 'split' bottom bracket.  AND .. 
one can find bicycles (in these lines) having the casting for the split bottom bracket .. but that bottom bracket 
was never "split" (verb) ... nor were the pinch-bolt holes drilled for pinch-bolts and nuts.

In addition .. all marques EXCEPT the Miami were produced as full-on motorcycles.  The company planned on its 
bottom-end marque (comparative quality with other three -- just less expensive) .. to represent the motorized 
two-wheeler in the form of a Motorized Bicycle ... and the unit was marketed that way.

Sorry ... couldn't locate a Hudson Motorcycle ad.  But .. check out what feature Miami Cycle has installed within the 
Hudson bicycle that this ad (below) brags about. 

......................  patric


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## Larmo63

*My toe clips I produced....*


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## Larmo63

*Another Racycle Crank Design.....*

This may be the most common type?


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## fordsnake

Now that's a new one...I didn't know the Flying Merkels offered toe-clips?


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## hoofhearted

Larmo63 ... Wow-Wee-Wow-Wow !!! Those clips are beautiful to my eyes !!!  Can think of a couple of rides in my herd 
that could benefit with the appearance of those, cuddling-up to the track pedals !!!

YOU DONE GOOD !!!

...................  patric


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## hoofhearted

Out of respect for Double Nickle (Tyler) ... I am re-directing his original wishes that we post 
Fotos .. Images .. Thoughts and Comments about The FLYING MERKEL Bicycle or Motorcycle ...
to this thread.

........................  patric


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## American Vintage Bicycle Supply

hoofhearted said:


> View attachment 121895




Is this your tool? I saw one on eBay last week.


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## hoofhearted

Double Nickle ... it will be when it arrives ... it was a Buy It Now ... $100+ AND shipping ... 
there was another one running on e-b from a different seller ... maybe bid up to twice the price.

This is the third Flying Merkel wrench I've scored ... but wait ... there's more >>> am braggin' 
for a reason ... lettin' the readers know THEY (wrenches) ARE OUT THERE !!!  I'm done grabbin' 
these ... three is TWO too many ................. but I ain't sellin' any ... maybe trade ... one day.

................  patric


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## hoofhearted

Sorry ... that "other" one is also a B.I.N. ...................


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## catfish

Here's a badge decal.


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## fordsnake

I found this ad for the front fork suspension on Patric's Flying Merkel.


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## fordsnake

When you're the Miami Cycle Co's., you don't rest on your laurels, you look for the game changer. You curiously ask yourself...the what if's?  What if we take the company's top o' the line marque...the Racycle Pacemaker and marry it with our Flying Merkels' proprietary orange?  How cool would that be???


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## 2jakes

fordsnake said:


> When you're the Miami Cycle Co's., you don't rest on your laurels, you look for the game changer. You curiously ask yourself...the what if's?  What if we take the company's top o' the line marque...the Racycle Pacemaker and marry it with our Flying Merkels' proprietary orange?  How cool would that be???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ******************
> _ 1915 Racycle Catalog_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Pacemaker model RaCycle, Miami Cycle & Manufacturing Co. of Middleton, Ohio_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _This bicycle was originally owned by Harry Nettleton of Red Wing, Minnesota.
> Mr. Middleton raised the original $16.50 purchase price by collecting clam shells
> from the Minnesota river & selling them to a local button factory._
> (Classic Cycle Bainbridge Island)


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## Larmo63

Somebody recently spotted an original Merkel bicycle.......


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## dave the wave

lowered the price.  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221319368950


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## hoofhearted

DAVE THE WAVE ... what many readers do not know is that in 1909 Merkel merged with The Light Manuf. Co. 
... forming a company called Merkel Light. 

This company was the producer of the Flying Merkel Motorcycle BEFORE Miami Cycle & Manuf. Co stepped up 
and purchased everything related to The Flying Merkel Motorcycle (1911).

That Light bicycle is beautiful to behold ... the raw-ness of the bold design .. presented to our eyes thru original 
paint .. with that particular saddle and bar ... a Fauber, 'Fancy' chainring ... and wooden, clincher rims ...... 

I  Lust.

....... thank you dave the wave !!!!!!!!

..............  patric


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## fordsnake

Unlike the Merkel Motor (who was out of the business of making bicycles before the Turn of the Century) Light Mfg. & Foundry was still making bikes! However there's no evidence that Light ever produced a Merkel bike, even after they purchased Merkel Motors in 1909 and moving them to Pottstown Pennsylvania.

The only evidence found so far of a Flying Merkel bicycle ever manufactured is under the Miami Cycle Mfg. Co., banner, after they purchased the Merkel-Light Motor Co., in 1911.  

Miami's objective was to prevail in the motorcycle arena...hence them dumping the manufacturing of their "Racycle" motorcycle and pursuing the acquisition of the front runner the Flying Merkel motorcycle.


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## catfish

dave the wave said:


> lowered the price.  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221319368950




Is the frame of this bike bent? By the head tube?


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## fordsnake

Yes, both the top and down tube.


----------



## catfish

fordsnake said:


> Yes, both the top and down tube.




I thought so.


----------



## dfa242

*"Is the frame of this bike bent?"*

That's the only reason I haven't bought it.


----------



## catfish

dfa242 said:


> *"Is the frame of this bike bent?"*
> 
> That's the only reason I haven't bought it.




That's what's stopping me too.....


----------



## hoofhearted

*Adaption OR Variation ...............*

fordsnake ... here is a catalog variation ... no idea of publication date ............


----------



## snowmanss-s10

*Hello.*

I Figure i would get in on the action

Here is a recent find of mine.

I believe its a model 426  Not sure year but i think 1912-1917


----------



## bricycle

Dang, I want that....


----------



## Nickinator

WOW that is an amazing find!

Nick.



snowmanss-s10 said:


> I Figure i would get in on the action
> 
> Here is a recent find of mine.
> 
> I believe its a model 426  Not sure year but i think 1912-1917


----------



## Nickinator

seems I have finally figured out what frame I am after,  This should be a fun quest...






Nick.


----------



## dave the wave

Great Bike !! couple pics. of 1921 catalog.


----------



## hoofhearted

Good morning snowmanss-s10 ... Your Merkel is an absolute jewel ... clean wizely .. conserve always.

READERS ... am posting some pics at this time .. don't have time to type much of anything right now .. but will edit.

Have reversed color in some pics .. to add clarity to the graphics .........

............  patric


5:40 p.m. EST ... 12/05/13 ... am back at the keyboard ... assembled in the following fotos are some visual appetizers .. 
perhaps visual reminders of things many of us associate with The Flying Merkel Bicycle .. built by Miami Cycle & Manuf. Co. 
in Middletown, Ohio from 1912 thru 1921 .. possibly 1922.

Many of us can peep the pics below and see some kind of connectivity .. this is a good thing.  For those readers who prefer 
to NOT REALIZE any connections between the fotos ... please bail out now.  Your thoughts may become muddled .. your 
attitude could take a negative lean .. you might continue to dislike pre-balloon era bicycles .. and at best, you will hear a bell ring.

Tonite .. we are peepin' a few chunks o' Flying Merkel (FM) bicycles.  We're lookin' at two-different downtube decals from two 
different eras of FM (1912 and possibly 1917).  We're lookin' at a possible 1917 thru 1921 .. possibly 1922 FM chainring .. and we're 
lookin' at the MAIN FONT of a Badge from a FM of model-year 1917 (?) thru 1921 .. possibly 1922.

Please take a good look at all-eight fotos ... compare and contrast them ... i'm goin' outside to spark a mild cigar and run our two 
Schnauzers and the new rescue doggie - Baby Girl - a little cutie that some readers say looks like a chupacabra .. whatever that may be.

Back inna minit ............

Have returned ... so .. what did you notice ??   The decals presented on the two different bicycle-downtubes FEATURE TWO DIFFERENT 
FONTS in the words Flying Merkel.  You also noticed the main font used to indicate FM in the pic of the FM metallic badge is replicated 
on snowmanss-s10 FM bicycle-downtube decal.  And you noticed the 1921 FM catalogue page featuring a FM motorbike (thank you Dave 
The Wave).  You also noticed (on this catalog page) the chainring features a series of hopefully-spinning F's ... kinda like a Black Beauty 
chainring is repped by a series of hopefully-spinning B's.

But your biggest A-HA is directed at the TOTAL LACK OF THE LETTER "M" featured within the ring.  To me, it's similar to a H-D ring being 
repped by a series of six "H's" .. or .. six "D's" only.        ......  Do you find this aspect of the later-chainring somewhat mysterious ??

The American Motorcycle Association Motorcycle-Museum Hall Of Fame indicates many things regarding Joseph Merkel and his relationship 
with Miami Cycle & Manuf. Co.  

One of the least-known items is, that Joseph Merkel left Miami Cycle in 1914 .. having sold-off all or most of his holdings.  Another thing ... 
the final model-year for the production of Miami-built FM motorcycles is 1917.  Some sources say 1918 is the final model-year for the motorcycle.
You can research the matter yourself ... then make a decision.

Look ... it's way too late to make a long-story .. short ...... but i'll try.  The BIGGER MYSTERIES TO THIS TYPER TONITE ARE ....... 

1.   What model-year is snowmanss-s10's Flying Merkel Bicycle ??

2.   What model-year of FM bicycle was the last to use the 60-tooth, half-inch pitch Star chainring ??

3.   What model-year of FM bicycle carried the very-first FM metallic badge .. rather than a head-tube decal ?? 

4.   What model-year of FM bicycle first-carried the Six-F chainring ??

5.   What model year of FM bicycle first-carried BOTH the FM metallic badge ... AND the six-F chainring ??

6.   Was a FM bicycle ever produced that carried BOTH the FM metallic badge ... AND the 60-tooth, half-inch pitch Star chainring ??

7.   Was a FM bicycle ever produced that carried the FM metallic badge ... AND WAS HELD ON WITH RETAINING SCREWS .. rather than "bottle-cap" fixture ??


Signing Off now ... girls and boys ... WHAT ??! ... "I haven't presented you with any new information."  ??!!

If i had any NEW INFORMATION ... i wouldn't-have asked so many questions.  

Hoodya think i am .. Miss Cleo ???


----------



## hoofhearted

Hey All You Lads and Lasses out there connected to me thru the magic of the virtual-world 
of The CABE ...  Just posted Entry #109 ... and,  finished my diatribe of earlier today ............


----------



## dave the wave

*American Boy Mag. nov.1913*

here's a ad.


----------



## hoofhearted

*Just Noticed This Ad Was 100 Years Old this past October ......*

Great Ad .. DAVE !!!  Thank you !!!


----------



## chitown

hoofhearted said:


> Many of us can peep the pics below and see some kind of connectivity .. this is a good thing.  For those readers who prefer
> to NOT REALIZE any connections between the fotos ... please bail out now.
> 
> The American Motorcycle Association Motorcycle-Museum Hall Of Fame indicates many things regarding Joseph Merkel and his relationship
> with Miami Cycle & Manuf. Co.
> 
> One of the least-known items is, that Joseph Merkel left Miami Cycle in 1914 .. having sold-off all or most of his holdings.  Another thing ...
> the final model-year for the production of Miami-built FM motorcycles is 1917.  Some sources say 1918 is the final model-year for the motorcycle.
> You can research the matter yourself ... then make a decision.





Any info on W. Merkel and if there is any relation? He teamed up with A D Meiselbach and others to start the Shelby Cycle Frame Mfg company in 1922.


----------



## fordsnake

Patric, here's what I've found, in the absences of a 1913, 1914, 1915, 1918, 1922 catalogs. The Answers to your questions #6 & #7 would be purely speculation without any documented evidence? 

1. What model-year is snowmanss-s10 Flying Merkel Bicycle ?? It's a 1917 model, but it could be earlier? Hard to discern without ads or catalogs.





2. What model-year of FM bicycle was the last to use the 60-tooth, half-inch pitch Star chainring ??   From what I've discovered the 1917 model was the first year for the Star chainring and the 1921 model featured the 6-F chainring...so it has to be before 1921? 





Between 1913 and 1916 the Merkel used a "clover" chainring, both 1/2" and 1" pitch, the same as the Miami Hudson 






3. What model-year of FM bicycle carried the very-first FM metallic badge...rather than a head-tube decal  The 1917 model offered the decal, so I'm guessing between 1918-1921. The 1921 Merkel bicycle catalog features the metal badge 




4. What model-year of FM bicycle carried the Six-F chainring 1921 catalog features it
5. What model year of FM bicycle carried BOTH the FM metallic badge ... AND the six-F chainring again both chainring and badge were featured in the 1921 catalog


----------



## fordsnake

Other interesting things I've discovered about the Merkel

The Merkel spencerian font was used on all models between 1912-1922. The font on this 1917 down tube was also used on a 1921 catalog. 







Note the deep fenders on these models




Decals were used up to 1917, perhaps even after?





The inspiration for the Merkel icon was Mercury the Roman god. Note the second image: this 1909 artwork was produced for the Merkel Motorcycle (before "Flying" was added to the name). 
Notice the character is carrying a motorcycle and his feet are sans the wings! As the image evolved over the years, he's shown carrying two wheels to suggest both motorcycles & bikes?


----------



## chitown

*Great work Fordsnake!!!!!*



fordsnake said:


>




the 1906-07 Excelsior Supply Co Twin Truss has that pattern also except it is 1" pitch.


----------



## fordsnake

chitown said:


> the 1906-07 Excelsior Supply Co Twin Truss has that pattern also except it is 1" pitch.




A great find…I always thought the double bar bike in the window was a Merkel with that particular chainring? Now I see it’s an Excelsior!


----------



## fordsnake

Perhaps D&J was Miami's chainring supplier???


----------



## fordsnake

The Merkel had several iterations of the “clover” sprocket design


----------



## hoofhearted

Great Work .. CARLTON ... beautiful images !!!  

I'm posting those downtube decals, again.  There are major differences between the two 
that have recently been posted.

Have no idea how long the 1912 FM decal was used (my ride).  Have never seen any others 
of any kind.  

Snowmanss-s10's downtube decal on his 1917 ( + / - ) FM is only the second decal I have ever 
witnessed.

At one time, I had UNBELIEVABLE laser-copies of a 1914 FM catalogue .. made for me at the 
American Bicycle Museum in New Bremen, Ohio.  This was MANY moons ago ... different staff 
back then.  The 'main' ride for FM in 1914 was a Miami-Bulldog of sorts ... drop, top-rail ... 
straight 'undertank' bar (no tank offered) .. undertank bar parallel with top rail .. seat-mast 
curved maybe halfway down to allow rear wheel unit to be pulled forward .. effectively shortening 
the wheelbase from approximately 44-inches to 42-inches ..  compression-spring fork ... in lieu of 
the fork offered on other 1914 FM's in the catalog.  That short wheelbase allows for a very-quick 
steering response ... wonderful for the "scorcher" in that day .. but perhaps a bit 'twitchy' for 
a more-conservative, long-distance, road warrior.  

Yeah ... I still have those prints ... somewhere.

The chainring offered on the 1914 'big dog' was the 60-tooth, half-inch pitch, Star chainring.

Again, Carlton ... you've posted some visuals that .. I know .. have consumed a lotta time to produce.

Thanks, again !!!

................  patric


----------



## fordsnake

Patric, I assume this is the short wheel base Miami Bulldog you're referring to? I manipulated the underbar to match the advertisement. Click here to see the original, post #7 http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?11345-Miami-Cycle&highlight=Bulldog 








The Miami star chainring is featured in the ad below.


----------



## fordsnake

The Flying Merkel continues in the wake of the Westfield purchase of the Miami Cycle Mfg. Co.


----------



## fordsnake

*Now here’s one that boggles the mind...*

The top chainring is Patric’s Merkel. I can’t find any documented evidence that this is the correct chainring for a 1912 Merkel? Clearly this sprocket was used on other makes and models.

But everything about Patric’s bike is unique…it’s a beautiful anomaly!  






I particularly like the seat post stem…instead of the usual vertical position, this bike has a horizontal application, much like the Merkel motorcycles! Plus the bike has additional cues; the front and rear suspensions seen on its big brother, the Merkel Motorcycle!  This double springer suspension was highly praised amongst the motorcycle critics, and help to distant it from its competition. 

Although I can’t find any mentioning of these features in any advertisements or catalogs, leads me to believe that Patrics’ bike is definitely a one of a kind…perhaps a Merkle prototype?  Sweet!


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

Great photos!
Interesting details.


----------



## hoofhearted

Oh .. CARLTON ... great foto manipulation on my 1915 Miami Bulldog Tall Frame ... artfully showing 
a straight underbar ... like the featured bicycle in the 1914 Flying Merkel catalog !!!  Good Form !!!


----------



## fordsnake

hoofhearted said:


> There are major differences between the two downtube decals.




Patric, here’s a quick rendering of the two font decals to help see the visual difference.






The 1913 Spokane Cycle catalog shows the decal positioned on the sides of the Merkel down tube.


----------



## dave the wave

color photo of the 1913 bulldog.


----------



## fordsnake

Dave, thanks so much for the Bulldog ad, it's so cool to see the use of "spot" color in the early media.


----------



## hoofhearted

Dave The Wave ... AWESOME COLOR PRINT OF THE MIAMI BULLDOG !!! Thank You, Dave !!!!!

Also, Carlton .. WOW the so-called quick renderings are very, very special !!!  A person can now tell 
the difference between the two fonts easily.  Am going to take reference measurements and post 
them on this thread .. to aid in making an electro-cut sticky stencil for those that need one.  

(Sorry that I don't know the correct techno-term for whatever the reader gathered from my mission 
statement about those stencils ... at the very least .. i did not say "smalls" to describe anything in 
this Merkel thread ...)

Thanks to all that had input ... the back-story and things that be regarding The Flying Merkel Bicycle 
is now, much-less murky than it was.

We still have a long way to go before we rest ..........

.........  patric

Prolly coulda posted this somewhere else ... but this seems an appropriate venue ... monkeyed with 
paint.net on the print posted by davethewave .. those colors do look good. 

Carlton .. you have so much facility with the foto-manipulator mechanism you use ... I truly admire your work.


----------



## chitown

*1914*


----------



## hoofhearted

*Shazam ........ !!!!!!!!!!!*

EXCELLENT FIND chitown !!!!!!

That IS the Model 400 Flying Merkel of 1914 !!!

Never thought i'd be peepin' that this evening !!!

..... patric

Say ... did y'all just hear a bell ring ??


----------



## fordsnake

Here's a pic of that Miami fork, I found this recently on a Racycle posting here on the Cabe.


----------



## bricycle

Merkel?....


----------



## hoofhearted

Merkel if I blur my eyes, Bri ... how 'bout more frame pics, pul-eeeze !!

Thanks, Brian ......

........  patric


----------



## bricycle

hoofhearted said:


> Merkel if I blur my eyes, Bri ... how 'bout more frame pics, pul-eeeze !!
> 
> Thanks, Brian ......
> 
> ........  patric




...no da fork is from sumpt'n else


----------



## hoofhearted

Bri ... the ride in your post is earlier than 1912 ........... 

...............  patric


----------



## bricycle

hoofhearted said:


> Bri ... the ride in your post is earlier than 1912 ...........
> 
> ...............  patric
> 
> View attachment 127111View attachment 127112




Any idea of mfg? Did Miami use decals?


----------



## 2jakes

bricycle said:


> Merkel?....








Sprocket looks similar to the P. & B. 1903.



_1903 Fauber & P. & B. Chainring Catalog_
posted 10-31-2013 by Gary Mc in the Sprocket  Comp. thread. (Gen. Discussion about old bicycles)


----------



## hoofhearted

Hey to 2jakes ... thank you for posting the E. H. Hall Co. catalogue showing chainrings that 
match the one on the bicycle that Brian posted.  Good Eye .. 2jakes !!!

Brian .. thanks for posting that earlier than teen's-era ride.  That multi-leaf-spring, shock-
absorbing fork appears very Hendee Indian and Westfield.

Not sure of the frame on the ride you posted.  One of the things I really like on the earlier 
rides ... like in your picture ... is the way each company had a really "smoove" manner of 
finessing the aft section of the rear stays ... I love that stuff !!!

Don't really know what other bicycles besides the Merkel that appeared with decals (rather 
than a metallic badge) ... am referring to Miami Cycle.

Some of us find it very strange that The Flying Merkel was 'decaled-only' in 1912 .. 1913 .. 
1914 .. 1915 .. 1916 and 1917 ... then ... some time in mid to late 1917 .. the very-first Flying 
Merkel METALLIC (bronze) badge was introduced.  

_The 6-F chainring was introduced on the 1920 FM models._

Now, I realize I could easily be called to task on that very-last chunk of information I just 
typed.  This typer has absolutely no proof that there is any truth at all in what was just typed. 

I just know ..  _that_ chunk of knowledge is something that mystified me at the time I gathered 
the particular information ... and swore an oath to The Power Of The Holy Ghost .. that I would 
remember _that_ very chunk of knowledge ... long after I have forgotten the names of My Wife 
... and our First Born.

..............  patric




*EDIT  1-19-2016 ... Adding foto of original NOS F-M 
badge ... could be a factory discard, as the pop bottle 
feature has pulled off the solder join.*


Thanks, again ... CABE member _dmk411_ !!

......... patric


----------



## bud poe

Am I crazy or are the two FM downtube decals pictured earlier not only different fonts, but positioned 180 degrees from each other?  One would read "up" the downtube, the other "down" the downtube...Maybe someone already pointed this out but I thought it was worth noting in this study...
Thanks all for the wealth of pics, scans, and info, this is why I love this site....


----------



## fordsnake

How the hell did I miss that one? Great eye!


----------



## 2jakes

hoofhearted said:


> Hey to 2jakes ... thank you for posting the E. H. Hall Co. catalogue showing chainrings that
> match the one on the bicycle that Brian posted.  Good Eye .. 2jakes !!!
> 
> 
> 
> ..............  patric




patric...


I just checked post # 119 by fordsnake  .




 



What do you think ...


----------



## hoofhearted

2jakes ... I think the FM chainring posted by fordsnake (FM catalog illustration ??) is an 
attempt to convey the _appearance_ of a D&J chainring having a 'spider' feature ... 
at a time when producing a multi-piece crank-unit was .. perhaps, cost-prohibitive.

On the flip side ... the negative aspect that plagued the two-piece crank was it's tendency 
to loosen and get the wobbles ... felt at the pedal-ends of the crank arms.

One school of thought says, "We Love Multi-Piece Cranks !!"  ... the multi-piece with spider, 
could more-readily fit the needs of those riders who liked to 'futz' with their machines .. gear-
ratio changes were fairly, quickly done .. especially if a dialed-in length of chain was 'at-the-
ready' that matched a particular ring .. crying to be bolted to the spider.   

Consider modern bicycles ... that multi-piece, spider unit is hardly obsolete.  But it does 
remain pricey. 

Another school of thought says, "WE LOVES ONE-PIECE CRANKS !!!"

Now ... back to appearances ... it is this typer's opinion that the 1916 FM Chainring .. the one 
posted by fordsnake ... WAS NOT THE ONLY _Featured_ CHAINRING in the catalog.  This D&J 
Clone Chainring may have had more to do with marketing something "special" ... hoping to sell 
more bicycles with this feature.

Is this sales-tactic NOT evident in Racycle ads .. showing 'outboard' bearings ... OR .. in the 
Hudson ads ... really showboatin' a D&J Crank ??!!

I would bet the Miami, 60-tooth .. half-inch pitch, STAR ring was also presented in the catalog ... 
but maybe not put on a stage like the FM, D&J Clone Chainring.

Remember ... we are in the presence of individual opinions at the moment ... nothing written 
in stone.

And so .. gentle readers ... do you believe that much more research is indicated .. before any 
conclusions can be reached ??

.......  patric





Now, don't tell me y'all just heard a bell ring !!?


----------



## 2jakes

hoofhearted said:


> 2jakes ...
> 
> Now, don't tell me y'all just heard a bell ring !!?










Sometimes........ & other times......


.......2jakes


----------



## fordsnake

Patric, there are a few things that are indeed written in stone! All evidence points to D&J as Miami’s supplier of cranks and sprockets 












The 1913 FM’s offered a multi-piece D&J crank hanger with a 48 tooth, half - inch pitch chainring. 





By 1916, the FM catalog introduced and touted a “re-designed” – one-piece D&J crank; 1 inch, 30 tooth sprocket. I agree with Patric, this one-piece crank (pseudo spider) allowed for multiple chainring applications. This was implied in their catalog, “ the simplicity has proved a boon to repair men.”

_Sorry for the blurry image, but its was a low-resolution scan._


----------



## bricycle

hoofhearted said:


> Bri ... the ride in your post is earlier than 1912 ...........
> 
> ...............  patric
> 
> View attachment 127111View attachment 127112




...but doesn't this thread show that the 1" chainwheels are later...??


----------



## 2jakes

fordsnake said:


> Patric, there are a few things that are indeed written in stone! All evidence points to D&J as Miami’s supplier of cranks and sprockets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 1913 FM’s offered a multi-piece D&J crank hanger with a 48 tooth, half - inch pitch chainring.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By 1916, the FM catalog introduced and touted a “re-designed” – one-piece D&J crank; 1 inch, 30 tooth sprocket. I agree with Patric, this one-piece crank (pseudo spider) allowed for multiple chainring applications. This was implied in their catalog, “ the simplicity has proved a boon to repair men.”
> 
> _Sorry for the blurry image, but its was a low-resolution scan._




This is all great information from all of you. And although you are now dwelling in the realm
above my minuscule cap...



I am learning & enjoying this very much...

Thanks


----------



## bricycle

2jakes said:


> This is all great information from all of you. And although you are now dwelling in the realm
> above my minuscule cap...
> 
> 
> 
> I am learning & enjoying this very much...
> 
> Thanks




...love the eyebrow pencil.....


----------



## chitown

bricycle said:


> ...but doesn't this thread show that the 1" chainwheels are later...??




For what Miami used, YES. However the 1906 Excelsior used the 1" pitch, then come the 1/2" pitch in the early teens used by Miami, and back to the 1" in 1916.

Not sure why. Could have to do with WWI OR the chain manufacturers preference to 1" in the USA where the English were pretty much using 1/2" on most of their wheels.


----------



## bricycle

chitown said:


> For what Miami used, YES. However the 1906 Excelsior used the 1" pitch, then come the 1/2" pitch in the early teens used by Miami, and back to the 1" in 1916.
> 
> Not sure why. Could have to do with WWI OR the chain manufacturers preference to 1" in the USA where the English were pretty much using 1/2" on most of their wheels.




...so what do I have???


----------



## fordsnake

Here's another D&J crank.  






Looking at the slotted dust cover on bricycle's crank, it looks a lot like the one featured in the D&J article and advertisement I posted.


----------



## 2jakes

bricycle said:


> ...love the eyebrow pencil.....




The ring around Pete's eye was natural skin coloration for 3/4 of the circle.
Hollywood make-up enhanced the rest. This was certified by 
Ripley's Believe or Not.


----------



## chitown

*an early Hudson???*



bricycle said:


> ...so what do I have???










Well in 1904 the Park City Mfg co. (builders of the D&J Crank starting in 1898?, Chicago) was absorbed into the Hudson Mfg co from Hudson Michigan. Is it coincidental that these show up on a Hudson badged bicycle from Miami? 












[1] Automobile Trade Journal, Volume 9
Chilton Company, 1904


----------



## bricycle

fordsnake said:


> Here's another D&J crank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking at the slotted dust cover on bricycle's crank, it looks a lot like the one featured in the D&J article and advertisement I posted.




...OK, so according to that info, it's likely, but not certain Chicago area made, as early as 1899? and as late as 1911 according to frame dropouts (Patric). Getting closer....


----------



## chitown

bricycle said:


> ...OK, so according to that info, it's likely, but not certain Chicago area made, as early as 1899? and as late as 1911 according to frame dropouts (Patric). Getting closer....




Dropouts are Aurora Automatic Machinery/Thor. This style is used on many Columbia and other Pope/Westfield builds well past the teens. Aurora supplied MANY of the builders from 1900-1910 (or abouts). Pope may have bought from them when Pope bought out sooo many mfg's in the ABC at the toc. This is when you see Pope and others switch from the Armory technique of the East (like IverJ) and the Stamping revolution in Chicago with Western Wheel Works leading the way.

1904 Thor catalog


----------



## chitown

bricycle said:


> ...so what do I have???




A 1906-1911 Miami Hudson would be my guess???

The Hudson Fordsnake posted has the 1/2" pitch and I think those are post 1911.

Here is a 1909 ad talking about those dust covers!


----------



## bricycle

Thanks everyone!
"cone wedges between the balls" hurts jest think'n about it....


----------



## fordsnake

*..."Just one more thing".....*


----------



## 2jakes

bricycle said:


> Thanks everyone!
> "cone wedges between the balls" hurts jest think'n about it....




Bri...please don't go there...



you know what'll happen !!!!!


----------



## redline1968

Here are a few pics of my Hudson track bike. The bottom bracket, crank and sprocket. I thought it was close to the patent date.


----------



## redline1968

Here is a pic of my tandem sprocket. I assume it's Miami built. Not quite positive though


----------



## hoofhearted

*Sons of The Flying Merkel .......*

HOLY CRAP ... have any of you *Sons of The Flying Merkel* ... (and you acquired that title by 
posting in this thread) .. have any of you gone back and re-read this whole thread .. which 
was initiated by Double Nickle on Oct. 22, 2013 ???

THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS Mind / Thought Expanding ... WOW-WEE-WOW-WOW !!!  

At age sixty-six and a half .. it takes A LOT to thrill me ... it takes A LOT to make me happy ... 
but this thread has been makin' me slap-happy for some time now !!!  

Look ... it's a bit premature to list each of you as a co-recipient in MY WILL ... but .. i do wanna 
say that each of you contributors has injected a lotta horsepower into This Thread ...... WOW !!! 

Good Form !!!

..........  patric cafaro


----------



## fordsnake

Cool!


----------



## 2jakes

hoofhearted said:


> HOLY CRAP ... have any of you *Sons* *of **The **Flying Merkel* ... (and you acquired that title by
> posting in this thread) .. have any of you gone back and re-read this whole thread .. which
> was initiated by Double Nickle on Oct. 22, 2013 ???
> 
> THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS Mind / Thought Expanding ... WOW-WEE-WOW-WOW !!!
> 
> At age sixty-six and a half .. it takes A LOT to thrill me ... it takes A LOT to make me happy ...
> but this thread has been makin' me slap-happy for some time now !!!
> 
> Look ... it's a bit premature to list each of you as a co-recipient in MY WILL ... but .. i do wanna
> say that each of you contributors has injected a lotta horsepower into This Thread ...... WOW !!!
> 
> Good Form !!!
> 
> ..........  patric cafaro





.......patric
Never having own or will probably never see one in person these rare beauties...
all I have is this...




...would this suffice to at least having my faithful companion join the club...?



 

 


 as Sgt. at arms __________                                                       Security ______or as Chief Mascot

Thanks,
2jakes


----------



## hoofhearted

SHAZAM !!!.... woke up this mornin' ... punched the 'brew' button on my 'java-juicer' ... 
rattled th' door to The CABE ... peeped a 'knock-out' graphic posted by Carlton (fordsnake) 
... AND another by 2jakes ...... MIGHTY-GOOD STUFF .. i gots ta tell ya !!!

And what to my wondering eyes did appear ??   The ANNOINTED-MASCOT to the Sons of the 
Flying Merkel ----- *PETE* *The* *Dog* *!!!*  (faithful companion of 2jakes)

What a GREAT WAY to start the day !!!

..........  patric


----------



## mike j

Great logos, Patric, you said it all. My vote's for Pete, for all of the above.


----------



## 2jakes

hoofhearted said:


> SHAZAM !!!.... woke up this mornin' ... punched the 'brew' button on my 'java-juicer' ...
> rattled th' door to The CABE ... peeped a 'knock-out' graphic posted by Carlton (fordsnake)
> ... AND another by 2jakes ...... MIGHTY-GOOD STUFF .. i gots ta tell ya !!!
> 
> And what to my wondering eyes did appear ??   The ANNOINTED-MASCOT to the Sons of the
> Flying Merkel ----- *PETE* *The* *Dog* *!!!*  (faithful companion of 2jakes)
> 
> What a GREAT WAY to start the day !!!
> 
> ..........  patric








*And a good morning to you & mike j !*
.......2jakes


----------



## redline1968

Seems like the Miami bikes like me.  Here is another bike that screams Miami built. Even the sprocket looks like the merkel. The color is original dark blue. Appears to be in the teens.


----------



## hoofhearted

redline1968 ... very nice ... that blue is refreshing to see on a Miami.

How is this machine badged or decaled ??

May we see more pics ... fender bridges ... and, maybe a super, overall shot ??

Thanks ..... 

..............  patric


----------



## redline1968

I have to pull it out for some pics its packed in tight..It was a badged frame. I'll post in a few some new pics  you requested.


----------



## redline1968

Here are a few more picks.


----------



## hoofhearted

*And Jus' When Ya Think Ya Seen It All ......*

Presenting a few magnifications of redline1968's very-stunning Miami-Built Archbar ... Model-Year Unknown ....


----------



## Larmo63

I am a bit more into the Racycle part of Miami, as I have departed from reality, (and a lot of $$) to

try my hand at a faithful restoration of my 1913??ish Racycle. I love this thread and all of it's exploration,

serendipity, and scholarship. Good going guys!!! Blue Nelson has enough Racycles and stuff to sink the 

Queen Mary and we do this kibitzing on a regular basis with the Racycles. It seems as if Miami was on the top of 

their game for so long, what happened to the company that it had to be sold? Were the Flying Merkel bicycles 

sold alongside Racycles? The frames look dissimilar. The whats and whys on this company intrigue me. Keep

up the good work!!!!


----------



## redline1968

hoofhearted said:


> Presenting a few magnifications of redline1968's very-stunning Miami-Built Archbar ... Model-Year Unknown ....
> 
> View attachment 127491View attachment 127492View attachment 127493View attachment 127494View attachment 127495View attachment 127496




Ha so I get the booby prize.. .. So possibly late teens -  20?  The badge holes are vertical. Miami goes hand in hand wth racycle the lower hanger on my Hudson track is the identical as my racycle as is the rear dropouts. The forks are a bit beefier on the racycle.


----------



## Larmo63

YES!!! very close to the bottom bracket clamp set-up on the Racycle frames.....!



redline1968 said:


> Here are a few pics of my Hudson track bike. The bottom bracket, crank and sprocket. I thought it was close to the patent date.


----------



## hoofhearted

redline1968 ... hold on ... you aren't gettin' a 'booby' prize ... that Miami-Built Arch-Bar 
is FIRST CLASS as a piece of rolling sculpture !!!  For that .. your machine wins a First-
Place, Blue-Ribbon ... and rightly so ... the designers at Miami Cycle have bred not only 
QUICK .. into your machine ..but FAST .. as well !!!  

Go back and take a peep at that machine of yours !!!

Look .. I may type like I know a lot about this company.  Whew ... it's all an illusion !!!

Oh, sure ... the bicycles produced by Miami thrill the hell outa me ... but finding Miami 
literature and information is much more difficult that finding comparative literature from 
Davis.  

Not that I trip over Davis lit while walkin' the mean streets of Dayton, Ohio.  It has been 
my experience that Davis put out a heckuva lot more publications (than Miami) .. showing 
many, many variations thru the mid-teens to 1922 (+ /-).

I know a tiny amount of info about Miami Cycle ... but what I DO know ... fires me up 
on all cylinders ... and when I let the clutch out ..... Dooood ... I am carried away !!!

Everything about the bicycles of Miami Cycle stirs me ... even more than receiving a call 
on my cell fone from friends I encourage to call me.  Sure ... it's no secret that I have my 
cell dialed-in to VIBRATE ... and it's no secret that I carry it in that little Double-O Seven 
pocket in my tightie-whities ....... 

As i learn more and more about the offerings of Miami Cycle .. i will share with all concerned.

And ... am i wrong to expect you all to do the same ?!!

Now ... if you are the owner of a Miami-Built ... go out there, right now, and SHOW THE LOVE 
TO THAT LITTLE PONY !!!

........ patric


----------



## redline1968

Thank you.... Wow for that I will put a extra coat of wax on that original blue beast...  and tires.


----------



## fordsnake

redline1968 said:


> Ha so I get the booby prize.. .. So possibly late teens -  20?  The badge holes are vertical.



Hold up a minute, Kemosahbee! 

At a quick glance your bike certainly appears to be a Miami, with those beefy fender bridges? But what I’ve seen from Merkel and Miami, the double truss frame has a space bar between the top and the bottom bar.





Also in the 1921 Miami/ Merkel catalog that Patric referenced (supposedly the last one before Westfield’s acquisition) the body copy suggests all joints are flush or fish-mouth brazed, not lug or trumpet-mouth fitted...except for one model? 





I thought perhaps your bike is a Westfield, built after 1922?  But looking at the Westfield’s models, especially the 1928 Indian truss bars...that space bar is still present! 











So now I'm really perplexed. Maybe Patric or someone else, can enlighten me as to how we arrived at Miami and not another manufacturer? 

Mark, you also mentioned that the head tube has vertical holes for the badge...that should make it easy? Which Miami, Hudson, Racycle, badge has the vertical hole placement...I can't think of one?    

Regardless, its still a beautiful bike?


----------



## chitown

hoofhearted said:


> As i learn more and more about the offerings of Miami Cycle .. i will share with all concerned.
> 
> And ... am i wrong to expect you all to do the same ?!!




I think you may be surprised at what all Miami Cycle built before 1922. I was surprised to learn that Miami and Davis both apparently built for Arrow Cycle Co out of Chicago, with similar frames and year of production. What other accounts did they share?  At this point I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Miami built for Harley. :eek:


----------



## Larmo63

My Miami Racycle has a lugged frame and some of Blue Nelson's do too....only at the head tube.....

Why some do, and some don't? Hmmmm.......

I just went and hugged my pony.


----------



## fordsnake

chitown said:


> I was surprised to learn that Miami and Davis both apparently built for Arrow Cycle Co.




When did this become a fact, I recall early on it was your hypothesis? I swear to god, I'm falling asleep at the wheel!


----------



## fordsnake

Larmo63 said:


> My Miami Racycle has a lugged frame and some of Blue Nelson's do too....only at the head tube.....
> 
> Why some do, and some don't? Hmmmm.......





Cool, I know all Miami's didn't have the clam BB and some had built-in chain tensioners! But how about the trumpet mouth fitting and the chain tensioners on Mark's bike...looks more like Davis features?


----------



## redline1968

Lol....How about a Davis hd...merkel Miami clone... ..No one notice the frame is a smaller 20 in size with 28 in rims...nobody asked.  As far as the holes on the tube for the badge ..hell I don't know. The Hudson is horizontal so is the racycle there are a few other brands Miami built but I don't know. What's the hole spacing for the merkel? I know It's Miami ? Model ?.. Wish I knew. Special production order? Here is a Miami built bike


----------



## chitown

fordsnake said:


> When did this become a fact, I recall early on it was your hypothesis? I swear to god, I'm falling asleep at the wheel!




I did say "apparently" to give myself some wiggle room but mostly it's based on Patic's post #51 in this thread comparing Dave's two wonderful Arrow motobikes.

As far as hypothesis' go I am focusing on WWI, the socialist movement within manufacturing, cheep imports, the Cycle Trade Dictatorship and the _standardization_ movement they were trying to implement, jobbers, parts suppliers and mail order houses. All with the intention of pealing back some of the layers, misconceptions and misinterpretations of the physical bikes that were left for us to obsess and wonder so much about.


----------



## fordsnake

redline1968 said:


> I know It's Miami




I’m not knocking anyone…I’m just trying to understand the nuances of the makers and their models? For me, without documented evidence it just conjectures…it’s a lot like the story that Davis made Indians? How many people drank that Kool-Aid and for how many years were they the evangelists? Without comparative literature to deduce our findings, we are reduced to forensic conclusions...I'm just begging to learn more?

Carlton


----------



## hoofhearted

Say ... all of you *Sons* of the *FLYING MERKEL* were on your toes, y'day. !!!

redline1968 .. fordsnake .. Chief Chitown .. and Larmo63 ... you 'sons' are providin' 
a lotta food for thought ... each of your posts y'day contains more than mere snack food.

Am posting some Miami-Built brands ... Latonia .. Elco .. Ray .. Rami .. and Standard ... 
to mention a few.  There is no tellin' what features the particular Miami-Built Bicycle 
had when sporting one of these pre-mentioned badges.  Then there are the private-
labels like Arrow ......

There is more inconsistency among frame constructions from Miami-Cycle than from any 
bicycle manufacturer i have ever seen.  From the lack of built-in rear-axel adjusters ... 
some Miami-Built Rides have 'em .. some do not.  Lugs ... some do ... some do not.
Arch-Bar Connector Tubes ... some do .. some do not. 

redline1968's ride has the short headtube .. is it possible THIS FACTOR is what qualifies
his arch-bar TO BE WITHOUT a connector ??

A good friend o' mine has a tall-frame Miami-Built Motorized Bicycle ... same frame as the 
Miami-Built Arrow.  Maybe he will post it in this thread IF he sees this sentence.

There is NOT one of us who prefers to live by a _particular proclamation_ IN PLACE OF DOC-
UMENTED FACT.

But .. until those FACTS waltz into our lives ... i am happy to take notice of a particular company's 
manner of fabricating trumpet-mouth joins .. lugs .. drop-out plates .. bend-styles in particular 
frame tubes ... forks .. fender-bridges .. and so on.

And i very-much dislike typing this ... but .. Much More Research Is Indicated Before Conclusions 
Can Be Reached.

..........  patric

post script ... a few more comparative-in-nature fotos to be posted soon .....


----------



## chitown

fordsnake said:


> Without comparative literature to deduce our findings, we are reduced to forensic conclusions...


----------



## hoofhearted

*Miami / Davis Comparitive-In-Nature Fotos .....*

.............................


----------



## chitown

hoofhearted said:


> .............[comparison photos]................




Redlines mystery truss rod ride could be a Pierce. They have trumpet joints that are squarish also.


----------



## hoofhearted

*Good Call .. Chris* ... this warrants further investigation !!!

.......  thank you !!!!!!!

........  patric




ALSO .. am diggin' this foto .. chitown !!!  .... you done good to post it ....


----------



## hoofhearted

chitown ... found these fotos ... 1936 Pierce Motorbike  >>>>   nostalgic.net

Will continue search for an earlier model-year Pierce.


----------



## catfish

chitown said:


>




Now that's a headlight!


----------



## fordsnake

hoofhearted said:


> .............................View attachment 127652




Patric, my naive approach to learning is to compare apples to apples. If we are to assume your summation is correct, then the only thing left is to compare redline's bike to another Miami built frame: Latonia, Hudson, Elco, Rami, Ray, Racycle, Flying Merkel or Miami having a square trumpet fitting and a space bar between the top and bottom arch bar?

So far, I'm not having any luck with visual evidence!


----------



## redline1968

I too looked around.it seems that the fish mouth mounts were used on many brands.  I feel it should be ruled out on a identification process. My opinion of course. 25 yrs of antiques has shown me that there are variations to everything and something new shows up once in a while  that defies logic. Every time I look at my fully nickel plated iver reminds me of that.


----------



## GiovanniLiCalsi

Perhaps your frame was a show model?


----------



## fordsnake

redline1968 said:


> I too looked around.it seems that the fish mouth mounts were used on many brands.  I feel it should be ruled out on a identification process.




Well, that would be unfair...then all unbadged bikes could be left up to the owner's discretion... anything he or she wishes it to be? This is what happened with Davis building Indians?  No such animal, yet several experts adamantly came to this conclusion...based on what? We now know the truth!  

Your bike has been deemed a Miami...I'm asking questions for my edification...how was the "Miami" conclusion arrived?  

Many manufactures in the early and late teens had small visual signatures for their bikes, regardless of the fact that many procured their fittings from the same suppliers! Your particular frame has multiple visual signatures; dropouts, truss space bar, lugs and that square trumpet-mouth fitting. 

You are right about the trumpet- mouth fittings on many brands...but a square ones is very distinctive! With the process of elimination, finding others bikes under the Miami brand umbrella with that particulars square fitting or any of the other similar visual characteristics should make it rather easy...wouldn't you say?


----------



## 2jakes

hoofhearted said:


> chitown ... found these fotos ... 1936 Pierce Motorbike  >>>>   nostalgic.net
> 
> Will continue search for an earlier model-year Pierce.
> 
> View attachment 127657View attachment 127658View attachment 127659




patric...hope this helps ..... 

*Pierce bicycle boys 1920s 28'*



_Info & more pics on Cabe classifieds 10-09-2013...by fatbar_

I believe it sold for $700...whoopee-ti-ay-oo...just the thought ...that perhaps...I coulda owned one of dis...
or maybe I'll wake up...& it's only a dream....ZZZzzzzzzz


HMmmm...?



slight curve on the rods & Aurora head badge......
.....jake


----------



## redline1968

fordsnake said:


> Well, that would be unfair...then all unbadged bikes could be left up to the owner's discretion... anything he or she wishes it to be? This is what happened with Davis building Indians?  No such animal, yet several experts adamantly came to this conclusion...based on what? We now know the truth!
> 
> Your bike has been deemed a Miami...I'm asking questions for my edification...how was the "Miami" conclusion arrived?
> 
> Many manufactures in the early and late teens had small visual signatures for their bikes, regardless of the fact that many procured their fittings from the same suppliers! Your particular frame has multiple visual signatures; dropouts, truss space bar, lugs and that square trumpet-mouth fitting.
> 
> You are right about the trumpet- mouth fittings on many brands...but a square ones is very distinctive! With the process of elimination, finding others bikes under the Miami brand umbrella with that particulars square fitting or any of the other similar visual characteristics should make it rather easy...wouldn't you say?



Possibly or not. Not much seems to surface yet. I'm sure most company's have signature type processes that help indicate a particular brand.  The merkel has the same style that I found. If anything it's at least it definite Miami built. So  Why extra duty parts? Possibly the worker wanted it for himself? Special order or a company visual display of the type const parts they use.  This bike has more shelf wear than ride wear. Which is interesting in its self. The paint is 90 percent there. I just noticed the 10/25 merkel photo upon close up indicates 2 vertical holes covered up by a decal. This Could my imagination but it sure looks like 2 screw holes vertically placed. Could the head tube be predrilled for badges then just decaled for the metrical brand? I pads help.


----------



## fordsnake

*Sumptin mus a fallen thru the cracks?*

Maybe I should ask this a different way? If you concede there's no visual characteristics...then how do you know it's Miami made? What determines it as a Miami built bike?  When I look at the Davis made bikes, there are several subtle nuances to watch for...I get that and I would think the process would apply to Miami Cycles.  I'm just trying to learn something.

You mentioned in your last post, your bike has the same style as the Merkel? Are you referring to the style of the truss or the frames geometry? Also you elude to parts being extra duty...which parts?


----------



## Nickinator

I am also sure this black beauty is lugged although you can't clearly see it,  the pin-striping starts right after where the lugged frame would stop.

pretty sure that merkel is lugged as well.  another bike to mention in this thread is now one of my favorites the black beauty... in the 1918 ad and 1919 ad its frame was made by miami cycle. 





fordsnake said:


> Patric, my naive approach to learning is to compare apples to apples. If we are to assume your summation is correct, then the only thing left is to compare redline's bike to another Miami built frame: Latonia, Hudson, Elco, Rami, Ray, Racycle, Flying Merkel or Miami having a square trumpet fitting and a space bar between the top and bottom arch bar?
> 
> So far, I'm not having any luck with visual evidence!


----------



## fordsnake

Nickinator said:


> I am also sure this black beauty is lugged although you can't clearly see it,  the pin-striping starts right after where the lugged frame would stop.
> 
> pretty sure that merkel is lugged as well.  another bike to mention in this thread is now one of my favorites the black beauty... in the 1918 ad and 1919 ad its frame was made by miami cycle.




Nick, we've seen lugs on: Racycles, Hudsons, Miamis, and Merkels...in fact the middle pic is the lug Miami bike you just purchased from Scott...I assume you're going to convert this into a Black Beauty tribute bike? 

What I'm asking, what is the Miami DNA, what are the key physical features that determined it as a Miami built?


----------



## Nickinator

key features I have noticed is that the middle tube hits the bottom tube after the bottom tube has already  joined the headtube, meaning the middle tube attaches to the bottom tube,  my bike it was hit hard on the right hand side and made a C shape so just got my frame back.  I also have never seen the middle bar smaller then any other bike. (given I am also new to this era and giving my honest thoughts) The rear fender mounts are quite short so maybe the space between the seat tube and rear fender is a noticeable feature as well.














fordsnake said:


> Nick, we've seen lugs on: Racycles, Hudsons, Miamis, and Merkels...in fact the middle pic is the lug Miami bike you just purchased from Scott...I assume you're going to convert this into a Black Beauty tribute bike?
> 
> What I'm asking, what is the Miami DNA, what are the key physical features that determined it as a Miami built?


----------



## Nickinator

*pictures of a merkel*

also found this guy on craigslist that had a merkel and he sent a picture of it.




Nick.


----------



## chitown

fordsnake said:


> If you concede there's no visual characteristics...then how do you know it's Miami made? What determines it as a Miami built bike?





Because it would be cool to have a Miami truss frame like no other! So therefore because it is a cool frame, it must be Miami... Just like the Miami Black Beauty would be cool. 


Where is an ad saying Black Beauty built by Miami Cycle Mfg??? I think I'm asleep at the wheel also... good thing because I'm in a ditch and could use the rest anyhow!

BTW Fishmouth construction refers to the internal lugs _inside_ the frame. Trumpet and Volcano refer to outer construction techniques.


----------



## redline1968

There is one distinctive feature I found its the rear seat post clamp area. I found a patent made in 1919 and approved in 21 for that particular design by the Miami cycle co. Also the forks are very distinctive for Miami. My Hudson and racycle have similar but distinctive design feature. Sure there are catalogs to help with designs and color pallet. The badge holes are vertical and the only Miami  made badges that I have seen are all horizontal. The merkel badges shown (to me) are repops no badge holes are shown and they give a indication of a badge hole before repoped. Unless they are bottle capped in place. 1921 cat is the closest to the design on mine minus the added space connection.  Hey What do I know..


----------



## chitown

fordsnake said:


> You are right about the trumpet- mouth fittings on many brands...but a square ones is very distinctive!




[video=youtube_share;dFlOZFSIsMQ]http://youtu.be/dFlOZFSIsMQ[/video]


----------



## redline1968

chitown said:


> Because it would be cool to have a Miami truss frame like no other! So therefore because it is a cool frame, it must be Miami... Just like the Miami Black Beauty would be cool.
> 
> 
> Where is an ad saying Black Beauty built by Miami Cycle Mfg??? I think I'm asleep at the wheel also... good thing because I'm in a ditch and could use the rest anyhow!
> 
> BTW Fishmouth construction refers to the internal lugs _inside_ the frame. Trumpet and Volcano refer to outer construction techniques.




We'll What do you know. Not much.


----------



## chitown

redline1968 said:


> There is one distinctive feature I found its the rear seat post clamp area. I found a patent made in 1919 and approved in 21 for that particular design by the Miami cycle co.




Is this the one?









Does it have that inner sleeve? and tapered/notched lucky 7 post?


----------



## redline1968

chitown said:


> Is this the one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does it have that inner sleeve? and tapered/notched lucky 7 post?




Sorry... I let my temper get ahead of me I apologize.


----------



## chitown

redline1968 said:


> Well, what do you know. Not much.




This is a fact. I can back that up. But it hasn't stopped me from trying to figure this crap out. Show me a comparable Miami frame and then we will be making progress. It still looks Pierce to my noob eyes until then.


----------



## redline1968

Pics. More over.. you have to prove it's not. For those who are interested the pics ( hard to photo but is perceivable)  show a very close construction to the patent. The area is reinforced with a longer sleeved inner joint and has the split as indicated in the patent.  The rear seat stays are reinforced  at the neck as the patent indicated. Outer description of the joint bears a remarkable similarity to the patent. Only the 7 post is not the same as patent but my blue bird doesn't fit the patent exactly either. Only in similarities.


----------



## hoofhearted

There is more inconsistency among frame constructions from Miami-Cycle than from any 
bicycle manufacturer i have ever seen.  From the lack of built-in rear-axel adjusters ... 
some Miami-Built Rides have 'em .. some do not.  Lugs ... some do ... some do not.
Arch-Bar Connector Tubes ... some do .. some do not.

There is NOT one of us who prefers to live by a _particular proclamation_ IN PLACE OF DOC-
UMENTED FACT.

But .. until those FACTS waltz into our lives ... i am happy to take notice of a particular company's 
manner of fabricating trumpet-mouth joins .. lugs .. drop-out plates .. bend-styles in particular 
frame tubes ... forks .. fender-bridges .. and so on.

And i very-much dislike typing this ... but .. Much More Research Is Indicated Before Conclusions 
Can Be Reached.


*ALL of The Above Is A Re-Type Of A Previous Entry*... ( Entry # 186 of this thread )

Perhaps the ONE Miami Genetic-Marker that remains constant ... is the rather-thick fender bridge.


----------



## fordsnake

hoofhearted said:


> Perhaps the ONE Miami Genetic-Marker that remains constant ... is the rather-thick fender bridge.




Thank you Patric!  That's all I needed, a simple explanation...that's the nugget I was searching for! 

We now return you back to your regular programming.


----------



## chitown

fordsnake said:


> Thank you Patric!  That's all I needed, a simple explanation...that's the nugget I was searching for!
> 
> We now return you back to your regular programming.




Okay Miami/Merkel/Hudson folks... post your fender bridges here! Let's get more than a sample size to help see how consistently this feature shows up.


----------



## Larmo63

I just inspected my Racycle frame, YES, they are the thick ones we are discussing....


----------



## hoofhearted

*Say .. Do The Fender Bridges On Yer Hudson Have Trumpet Mouths .. Or Not ??*

Well ... i am happy, now ... now that everyone is satisfied !!!

But my happiness may be a bit premature ... i predict one of 
*The Sons of the FLYING MERKEL* will discover that the fender 
bridges on 'this' Hudson are drilled ... but the fender bridges 
on 'that' Hudson are not ... oh .. the mere thought of it all ...  Aarrrrgh !!!

Jus' playin' ... you ALL are the best !!!

..............  patric


----------



## mike j

Ah.. sometimes it's just the simple things in life.


----------



## ejlwheels

My frame was a questionably Miami-made Racycle because of built in chain adjusters.
It does seem to have beefy bridges, however.  
The upper is about 5/8" in diameter and the lower is about 3/4."
A typical bottom bridge seems to be about 1/2."


----------



## redline1968

Pics for the 1898 Hudson track bike.  No hole drilled for fenders. Interesting note on the rear dropouts design. Sorry let my temper get ahead of me. I apologize.


----------



## redline1968

Pics of the raycycle bridges all large. Rear drop out pic included. Again I apologize.


----------



## redline1968

Pics of the "unusual arch bar" Miami built.  Thick bridge also. Thank' s Patrick for your help.......
As a post note, I did some research I feel confident that it is a flying merkel. I found the same square fish mouth on the merkel motor cycles. Of course still going to get negative responses but that is life just look at a merkel motor cycles front fork... Still up for speculation.


----------



## hoofhearted

You are very welcome .. redline1968 .... thank you to You 
and Others for posting a documentation of what is what.

...............  patric cafaro


----------



## chitown

redline1968 said:


> Pics of the "unusual arch bar" Miami built.  Thick bridge also. Thank' s Patrick for your help.




I've learned sooo many things in this thread. Some things about bikes some things about people. Sorry redline if you felt I was doubting your bike was Miami, it's just I hate being told "...just because it is..." type explanations. I am glad Patric was able to refocus the hunt for identifying markers of the ever elusive Miami Built Bikes.

Now I'm ready for more twists and turns of unearthed evidence brought to the unruly arena known as thecabe.com. Pitting wit against halfwit, legend against fact and unbound, wild theory against a pragmatic search for knowledge.


----------



## fordsnake

I'll just hitch my wagon to chitown's comment and say...ditto!


----------



## Nickinator

fordsnake said:


> ..I assume you're going to convert this into a Black Beauty tribute bike?




Oh yeah meant to say- the way I look at it, if I hunt down each and every part that Haverford sourced to make 'my' specific Black Beauty- the Miami frame and fork, the Davis fenders, bars and stem, the stamped BB seat, the BB badge, hubs off another BB...if everything is exactly the same as what Haverford used, then it's more of a "pieced together" bike, not a "tribute" bike. Also, I have seen many bikes pieced together here, using correct (or even mostly correct) parts, and not a one of them has described it as a tribute bike.


...so just need the Davis front fender, double braces...last major part I need... Would love to have it done by Spring Memory Lane!

Nick


----------



## chitown

Nickinator said:


> ...every part that Haverford sourced to make 'my' specific Black Beauty- the Miami frame and fork, the Davis fenders, bars and stem, the stamped BB seat, the BB badge, hubs off another BB...




Nick,

I've never seen anything connecting Miami with Haverford let alone a Black Beauty. If I missed something, an ad or piece of literature, I'd love to see to clear that up. Know, documented builders for the Black Beauty are Schwinn and Rollfast in the later twenties.

As far as fenders, those are not specific to Davis, nor are they Davis built. They were built by International Stamping in Chicago. They were used by almost all the manufacturers at the time... Davis, Excelsior, Miami, HP Snyder (Rollfast/DP Harris), Schwinn and even Westfield used them on their Indians and other motobikes.

Chris


----------



## fordsnake

I have to agree with Chitown on the Miami connection and Haverford? I've just never seen any information...but like I said before, I'm here to learn!    

By the way, you are aware of the subtle difference between the Black Beauty and your Miami? The Black Beauty's rear stays were purposely designed to be much wider apart where they connect to the bottom bracket and the top of the seat post...additionally they are offset, this was a Haverford "amble room" design, touted in their catalog.





Speaking of catalogs, there's one currently on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-1919-Black-Beauty-Bicycle-Catalog-Brochure-Loaded-Illustrations-RARE-/141144512672?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20dcde58a0 

Best of luck with the project.  Carlton


----------



## Nickinator

These are the 1919 ads off nostalgic.  compare it side by side with the Miami made Merkel that sits in the stand.
I just have that itchy feeling it was Miami made in these pictures. notice how the single point truss rod set up is also a match, the fender brace set up matches,










Nick.




chitown said:


> Nick,
> 
> I've never seen anything connecting Miami with Haverford let alone a Black Beauty. If I missed something, an ad or piece of literature, I'd love to see to clear that up. Know, documented builders for the Black Beauty are Schwinn and Rollfast in the later twenties.
> 
> As far as fenders, those are not specific to Davis, nor are they Davis built. They were built by International Stamping in Chicago. They were used by almost all the manufacturers at the time... Davis, Excelsior, HP Snyder (Rollfast/DP Harris), Schwinn and even Westfield used them on their Indians and other motobikes.
> 
> Chris


----------



## hoofhearted

*Hmmmm .....*

..............................


----------



## hoofhearted

*Hmmmm .....*

*The Following Is Some Of The Dumbest Stuff I've Ever Posted ... 
but it represents 'how' I learn.    (Edited-in Sept. 9, 2014.)*


----------



## bricycle

hoofhearted said:


> ......................
> 
> View attachment 128262View attachment 128263




Patric, are you imitating a Hummingbird? or singing "Little bitty pretty one"?


----------



## hoofhearted

Good One ... Bri !!!


----------



## redline1968

I let my temper get ahead of me . I apologize.


----------



## hoofhearted

*redline1968 ...* great info !!  For the good of the order .. I would like
to see your information documented in this very-special thread .. some day.

Posted below are some pics of a 1915 Davis-Built Dayton Archbar. These were 
located at nostalgic.net.  Thank you, Dave !!

The only thing of importance with this ride appearing in this particular thread 
is the trumpet-mouth join at the aft section of the arching bar.  It has some 
visual similarities to that very thing on your Miami-Built archbar.

Davis-Dayton  enthusiasts may want to note the non-typical (for a Dayton) 
manner of design in the rear-axel adjuster-screw housing.  Very typical of a 
Davis .. but not a Dayton.  A Dayton rear-axel adjuster is posted below.

The very-flat Dayton chainring is something not-often observed .. as is the 
'full-on' leafspring-suspension / fork unit.  Wow ... those particular units are 
WAY Difficult To Find !!!  

.........  patric


----------



## redline1968

Thanks. Wow I first thought that I could not post pics from sites but I was wrong. The arch bar u pictured has some similarities but mine are larger around with a interesting shape like a D. I got to say... Wow great fork.!!!! Rare rare rare! Now I got a few pics of mine on closer inspection and couple pics of a merkel  cycle for references. I know it's a motor cycle but they have interesting similarities. Note the fork on the merkel the brace has similar fish mouth connection. The braces on the frame are similar also.


----------



## hoofhearted

*Hmmmm ........*

*More Thought Development* ... On an American-Built .. teen's era .. motorbike ... 
the top bar was .. more often than not .. 1-inch wide ... on a 28"- wheel.  

On a Schwinn of that period .. the under-bar was also 1-inch wide.

Other manufacturers had different-size tubing .. notably Davis .. with 1-inch wide top-bar ... 
AND 7/8"-wide under-bar.

But ... what about Miami Cycle ??? 

This typer has strong suspicion that Miami Cycle DID PRODUCE the Black Beauty Bicycle ... 
during several .. but not all .. model years.

This statement is made .. only as a development of my current thought and observation ... 
to be proved or disproved.  

The evidence indicates that more research is necessary .. before conclusions can be reached.

.............. patric


----------



## bricycle

fordsnake said:


> Here's another D&J crank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking at the slotted dust cover on bricycle's crank, it looks a lot like the one featured in the D&J article and advertisement I posted.




Ok, here's the stamping on mine.....  D&J patented Jan. 11 1898. Park City Mfg. Co. Chicago, IL.


----------



## fordsnake

I'm sorry, but the jury is still out on Miami making the Black Beauty for Haverford? I need further proof and not conjectures! We can start with the explanation of the different rear fork and rear stay styles between the two brands? From what I've read Haverford touted their unique rear forks being "wide and amble", different from all of the Miami's models, which were long and narrow.  Plus in a Racycle catalog, they frowned on the wide rear end geometry. Note the "beefy" 1/2" fender brace on both illustrations...the Black Beauty lacks the signature Miami arch!  



 





Regarding the top double bar tube sizes...many manufacturers and jobbers offered their motorbike frames with different size!


----------



## Nickinator

I am sure it's Miami made but, not sure all of the pictures in the 1919 ad are Miami built. Here is the Miami frame next to a true black beauty frame. Pretty close if you ask me but you have to remember also Miami wasn't a very consistent frame designing company


----------



## fordsnake

Nick,

Last week we conceded that the beefy arch fender brace was a Miami signature feature!  

The girls frame that you're comparing is inconsistent with the above hypothesis! 

Instead the Black Beauty's frame as seen here and in the Haverford catalog visually articulates the difference; smaller fender brace tubing, a more relaxed arch brace, lacks the semi-circular at the top and the bottom!

I’m sorry, but the more physical evidence you share, the more transparent it becomes (to me) that Haverford does not have Miami’s DNA.


----------



## Nickinator

To be honest I myself don't even know who manufactured the ladies model.  I could be comparing a Davis frame to a Miami frame but,  until a frame is found that closer matches the champion ad better then my Miami frame I'm going to say its Miami made.

Nick.



fordsnake said:


> Nick,
> 
> Last week we conceded that the beefy arch fender brace was a Miami signature feature!
> 
> The girls frame that you're comparing is inconsistent with the above hypothesis!
> 
> Instead the Black Beauty's frame as seen here and in the Haverford catalog visually articulates the difference; smaller fender brace tubing, a more relaxed arch brace, lacks the semi-circular at the top and the bottom!
> 
> I’m sorry, but the more physical evidence you share, the more transparent it becomes (to me) that Haverford does not have Miami’s DNA.


----------



## fordsnake

Nickinator said:


> Here is the Miami frame next to a true black beauty frame.]




SAY WHAT? Are you making this up as you go along? One minute you're adamant the frame is "a true black beauty", now you're backing off, "I could be comparing a Davis frame to a Miami frame?"  

This is how the water gets muddy with inaccuracies and misled information! 

I think we need to call a spade, a spade! In other words you have a Miami frame you'll convert into a Haverford Bicycle!


----------



## Nickinator

What I'm saying is the ladies frame could be made by a number of manufactures, I compared it to a Miami built showing differences,  remember that multiple companies made black beauty and even seen in different ads. In other words I could have been comparing a Davis, excelsior or a Haverford made bike to a Miami but, I don't know. I was simply trying to say that I believe that Miami also built some of the black beautys.
("true black beauty") means that's where I got my head badge.

Nick.



fordsnake said:


> SAY WHAT? Are you making this up as you go along? One minute you're adamant the frame is "a true black beauty", now you're backing off, "I could be comparing a Davis frame to a Miami frame?"
> 
> This is how the water gets muddy with inaccuracies and misled information!
> 
> I think we need to call a spade, a spade! In other words you have a Miami frame you'll convert into a Haverford Bicycle!


----------



## chitown

fordsnake said:


> Are you making this up as you go along?


----------



## fat tire trader

redline1968 said:


> Thanks. Wow I first thought that I could not post pics from sites but I was wrong. The arch bar u pictured has some similarities but mine are larger around with a interesting shape like a D. I got to say... Wow great fork.!!!! Rare rare rare! Now I got a few pics of mine on closer inspection and couple pics of a merkel  cycle for references. I know it's a motor cycle but they have interesting similarities. Note the fork on the merkel the brace has similar fish mouth connection. The braces on the frame are similar also.



You should not downloand and reproduce images from a website without having the webmaster's permission.
http://www.copyrightlaws.com/us/legally-using-images/


----------



## redline1968

What are you the web police? If you don't want to have pics posted don't post them. Some sites dont let you and that's fine. You throw your ass out for every one to see and expect it not to get attention look at Pinterest site my blue bird is on it and every one of the google sites with out my permission as a few pics on this site with out my permission. It's there and I'm alive no hurt too me. If you feel that is so secret stay off and don't post.


----------



## 2jakes

www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html


Happy Holidays...


----------



## redline1968

If you can't read it's for copy right on commercial use with out permission also no expressed disclaimer? Posted on the subject. Do you see any?


----------



## Larmo63

www.yurpics.are.viral.so.stfu.com.......


----------



## redline1968

Got to say I think ford snake is right on his examples. I'm convinced.


----------



## hoofhearted

.................................  i don't have words, yet ... but I will ... sayin' my prayers an' goin' t' bed ......

*Merry Christmas to All  ......*

.............  patric


----------



## fat tire trader

redline1968 said:


> What are you the web police? If you don't want to have pics posted don't post them. Some sites dont let you and that's fine. You throw your ass out for every one to see and expect it not to get attention look at Pinterest site my blue bird is on it and every one of the google sites with out my permission as a few pics on this site with out my permission. It's there and I'm alive no hurt too me. If you feel that is so secret stay off and don't post.




Not asking for permission to use someone's images shows your lack of respect and your ingratitude to the person who took the time to share them in the first place.


----------



## Nickinator

third and forth picture are excelsior made. I believe its a 1920 model.

Nick.

And Merry Christmas everyone!



hoofhearted said:


> .................................  i don't have words, yet ... but I will ... sayin' my prayers an' goin' t' bed ......
> 
> *Merry Christmas to All  ......*
> 
> .............  patric
> 
> View attachment 128680View attachment 128681View attachment 128682View attachment 128683View attachment 128684View attachment 128685


----------



## fordsnake

fat tire trader said:


> Not asking for permission to use someone's images shows your lack of respect and your ingratitude to the person who took the time to share them in the first place.




Chris, can we not digress from the topic of this thread and voice concerns about copy and photo infringements in the Break Room?

Thanks, Carlton


----------



## hoofhearted

Thank you .. CARLTON .......

Look ... fat tire trader ... I mean no disrespect to you.

But .. bogarting your way on to this thread to share your shoulds ... 
oughts and musts (about posting fotos from the Ethernet ) with those 
that are deep in thought comparing and contrasting subtle nuances 
regarding frame identification via tiny frame features ... hoping to 
isolate and i.d. a parent company ... well .. I know the fat-tire people 
don't do this so-much ........... so .. maybe you are not as sensitive to 
our needs as co-communicators as you *could* be ......

Some of us .. on this thread ... may hold beliefs that you .. yourself .. 
are showing a lack of respect to the very-few of us that are deep in 
concentration.

Maybe i am wrong .. but, perhaps you have had a foto .. that you authored .. 
ripped-off.  I can empathize with you.

Anyhow .. Merry Christmas to you !!!!!!

...........  patric


----------



## redline1968

Thank you patric couldn't have said it better my self. What bothers me about nicks frame is the over built areas. It looks like repairs rather than factory installed. Just my opinion.


----------



## 2jakes

redline1968 said:


> Thank you patric couldn't have said it better my self.




Way to go  patric.....


oh...by the way....you said earlier you wuz going to bed....

So ....go to sleep now...you have another long day tomorrow ...

& don't worry about us ...we know we can count on you to set us straight ...


 Best Regards,
    2jakes
>S.O.T.F.M.


----------



## redline1968

Wow. Case proven for you... 2????< an idea =nothing relevant for this site.


----------



## hoofhearted

The following is nothing more than a presentation.  It remains within the hopes of this typer ... 
that All Bicycle-Manufacturing Companies producing the Black-Beauty Bicycle for Haverford 
Cycle Co. can come to light and be recognized for their achievements. 

Have made a bunch of discoveries ........ 

The BB was Schwinn-Built for some Model Year(s). The Schwinn Motorbike of the mid-teens and 
twenties had a 1-inch diameter top bar AND a 1-inch diameter Undertank Bar.  A Double-Brace 
was used to help support BOTH the front and rear fenders.

The BB was Davis-Built for some Model Year(s).  The Davis Motorbike of the mid-teens thru 1922
(Davis had NO 1923 PRODUCTION of bicycles) .. to continue .. had a 1-inch diameter top bar AND 
a 7/8" Undertank Bar.  A single fender brace was used to help support the front fender WHILE a 
double fender brace was used to support the rear fender.

The BB .. also .. was made by an Unknown Builder .. whose frame-features are remarkably similar 
to those Motorbikes of the Miami-Cycle & Mfg. Co. from 1917 thru 1922 .. the final year Miami produced 
bicycles.  This '17 thru '22 Miami-Built Motorbike has a Drop-Top-Tube of 1-inch diameter -- as do
many motorbikes of the era AND ALSO has an Undertank Bar with an o.d. diameter of *11/16-inch *...
AND .. a double-brace was used to help support BOTH the front and rear fenders. 

Generally speaking .. it may be very-difficult for anyone to find a teen's-era bicycle with less that 1-inch 
main tubing.  Some of the exceptions are the Davis-Built Road-Racer ... the Davis-Built Track Racer (much 
shorter wheelbase) .. and the 20-inch and 26-inch wheel, juvenile line from Davis.  These rides all have 
main-tubing of 7/8-inch (o.d.) ... and it must be noted that some of the 20-inch wheel juvies from Davis 
have been seen with 3/4-inch main tubing.

Other manufacturing companies MAY HAVE ALSO PRODUCED similar, specialized bicycles ... to 'round-out' 
their-particular line of bicycles.

However .. this typer HAS NEVER SEEN a teen's-era motorbike with an 11/16-inch, o.d. diameter Underbar 
... as has been witnessed on those particular Miami-Built Motorbikes .. 1917 thru 1922.  If there is such an
example ... built by a company other that Miami Cycle & Manuf. Co. ... i would be delighted to look upon it.

It is important for this typer to indicate that i've owned a housepainted Davis-Built Black-Beauty Bicycle ... 
the frame ... a Davis, Model-Year 1920 ... '21 or a '22.  All that remains of that sad, tortured Black-Beauty 
is the badge and the heavy-duty truss-fork.  The Six-"B" chainring was gifted to Eddie Boros of Chicago ... 
who had amassed a remarkable collection of different Black-Beauty Badges. 

That particular frame was found damaged beyond recognition ... which isn't so bad .. after-all ......... 
that _particular_ 3-year period of Davis-Built Motorbikes were so very ugly in their design ... that Time Magazine 
voted Quasimodo .. to be the sexiest man of all-time ... during that 1920 thru 1922 period.

While I, personally, believe Miami-Cycle produced the Black-Beauty Bicycle during un-disclosed model years ... 
I certainly do not expect everyone and their first-grade teacher to be shouting from the tallest rooftops .. that 
very chunk of my belief.  To be sure ... much more research is indicated .. before a conclusion can be reached.

........ patric


----------



## Balloon Knot

Here is the standard answer form a well known collector.... "Wouldn't you like to know".


----------



## fordsnake

I also have some Black Beauty information I'd like to share...it's very lengthy and I don't want it to distract from this intended "Flying Merkel" thread!
So, if the S.O.T.F.M. brethren's don't object, I'll continue with my findings at http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?32151-Who-made-quot-Black-Beauty-quot-badged-bikes-and-Mont-Wards-quot-De-Luxe-quot

Carlton


----------



## catfish

Patric,     Great info, as always! Thanks for sharing your knowledge. 

   Catfish



hoofhearted said:


> .................................  i don't have words, yet ... but I will ... sayin' my prayers an' goin' t' bed ......
> 
> *Merry Christmas to All  ......*
> 
> ...


----------



## hoofhearted

Thank You .. *Catfish* .. my brother ... you and Paul G. (bike) have been encouraging 
me to lay down some info that I've picked up thru observation and the experience of 
having had the opportunity to learn from those that learned before me.

*Merry Christmas To You - Catfish ! ! !*

...............  patric


----------



## catfish

Merry Christmas to you too! I'll see you in the spring. 

  Catfish



hoofhearted said:


> Thank You .. *Catfish* .. my brother ... you and Paul G. (bike) have been encouraging
> me to lay down some info that I've picked up thru observation and the experience of
> having had the opportunity to learn from those that learned before me.
> 
> *Merry Christmas To You - Catfish ! ! !*
> 
> ...............  patric


----------



## oldwhizzer

*Miami - Hudson*

Miami - Hudson fender bridge. Patric Please feel free to repost,copy or tattoo the pictures of my Bike


----------



## fordsnake

Cool bike...I'd love to see more of this bike...perhaps a profile? I noticed it doesn't have the standard fender brace at the bottom, plus the seat tube looks curved? Is this bike similar to the Miami Bulldog with the short wheelbase. Share more pics...please????


----------



## hoofhearted

*oldwhizzer* ... nobody has your good-fortune OR your limited memory ........ 

Dood ..... the only-est foto my good eye has ever seen of yer Prize is by way of a blury, 
cell fone foto.  Just One Is All I Earned.

But things may be different.  Maybe you will consider some fotos that are not snapped in 
haste.  Oh .. that would be very, very nice.  Perhaps you will share the backstory of how 
this little BANSHEE came in to your life.   Fordsnake asked nicely ... patric asked nicely ...

...........  pul-eeeze ????


----------



## redline1968

Yes...please post pics. love the color Orange and green. Thank you.


----------



## hoofhearted

*redline1968* ... you are a genius ... i didn't see the green in the fender 
until i read your entry and adjusted my screen-angle.  Now i have a brick 
under my monitor and the colors are in high-def.

Could be a money-maker for ya !!!  

But the shipping for a brick could be fairly expensive.


Merry Christmas, redline1968 !!!

....  patric


----------



## redline1968

Thank you and merry Christmas to you too.


----------



## Flat Tire

I've had this frame on the wall for years and after reading this thread I pulled it down and I'm thinking it may be Miami made, horizontal headbadge holes, the beefy fender bridges with no holes. No chain adjusting...


----------



## hoofhearted

*Special Offer .......*

*Don* ... you got a Miami-Built Frame right there in your possession !!!

How Fortunate You Are Today ... Just Peep *My FREE Special Offer* .....

...............   patric


----------



## Flat Tire

Thanks Patric!  Already saved the headbadge pic and I'll add that soon....my lucky day to have a Miami built frame....heck its even got the 'Lucky Swastika' on the bottom:eek:


----------



## hoofhearted

*Holy Crap ... Don * ... it don't get no better than that !!!

Some people have ALL the Luck !!!

.............  p.


----------



## catfish

hoofhearted said:


> *Don* ... you got a Miami-Built Frame right there in your possession !!!
> 
> How Fortunate You Are Today ... Just Peep *My FREE Special Offer* .....
> 
> .............. patric
> 
> 
> View attachment 129031View attachment 129030




Now that's a deal !!!!


----------



## Larmo63

My Racycle frame's original paint color was the same color blue on that bottom bracket....


----------



## hoofhearted

*The Following Is An Extraction Of Info Typed In My Entry # 259 Of This Thread.*

The B-Beauty .. also .. was made by an Unknown Builder .. whose frame-features are remarkably similar 
to those Motorbikes of the Miami-Cycle & Mfg. Co. from 1917 thru 1922 .. the final year Miami produced 
bicycles.  This '17 thru '22 Miami-Built Motorbike has a Drop-Top-Tube of 1-inch diameter -- as do
many motorbikes of the era AND ALSO has an Undertank Bar with an o.d. diameter of *11/16-inch *...
AND .. a double-brace was used to help support BOTH the front and rear fenders. 

Generally speaking .. it may be very-difficult for anyone to find a teen's-era bicycle with less that 1-inch 
main tubing.  Some of the exceptions are the Davis-Built Road-Racer ... the Davis-Built Track Racer (much 
shorter wheelbase) .. and the 20-inch and 26-inch wheel, juvenile line from Davis.  These rides all have 
main-tubing of 7/8-inch (o.d.) ... and it must be noted that some of the 20-inch wheel juvies from Davis 
have been seen with 3/4-inch main tubing.

Other manufacturing companies MAY HAVE ALSO PRODUCED similar, specialized bicycles ... to 'round-out' 
their-particular line of bicycles.

However .. this typer HAS NEVER SEEN a teen's-era motorbike with an 11/16-inch, o.d. diameter Underbar 
... as has been witnessed on those particular Miami-Built Motorbikes .. 1917 thru 1922.  If there is such an
example ... built by a company other that Miami Cycle & Manuf. Co. ... i would be delighted to look upon it.


While I personally-believe _Miami-Cycle produced the Black-Beauty Bicycle during un-disclosed model years_ ... 
I certainly do not expect everyone and their first-grade teacher to be shouting from the tallest rooftops .. _that 
very chunk of my belief_.  To be sure ... much more research is indicated .. before a conclusion can be reached.

........ patric









REMOVED FEEBLE, TINY AD 12-28-2015 ... (Couldn't get this ad to magnify) Aarrrrgh !!


*======================================================================
======================================================================*


*My Purpose in typing this morning is to clarify info I posted in a previous entry within this thread.  i indicated 
the exact measure of the underbar on Nick's Miami-Built motorbike .. also re-posted above .. indicated 
the exact outside-diameter measure of that underbar * *to be 11/16".*

While the actual measure iS 11/16" O.D. on the underbar ... i could find no mention of such a number within any of the 
Miami-Built research done so far.  

It is my belief that Miami DID USE 11/16" O.D. tubing on the underbar of many of their builds .. and when it came to 
stating specs in documentation ... the 11/16" figure was rounded-off to 3/4".   The difference in 11/16" AND 3/4" 
is that 11/16 PLUS 1/16 does equal 12/16" ..OR ... 3/4".  I further believe the purpose in rounding-off was to facilitate 
communication ... much like many of us refer to a "One and One-Half BY Three and One-Half" as a Two-By-Four length 
of lumber.

Am gonna go change-out an image .. it's too small .. but have a replacement ... *I be BACH*.









Well ... did what I could with that Miami / FM ad .. and IT'S STILL SMALL.  Just wanted to show a reference to the Miami 3/4-inch 
frame _truss_ tube ... as Miami calls it .......

Will upgrade that ad when I can ..............  *Added 1917 ''spec'' sheet 12-28-2015 .. see below.*

.......  patric



 *

^^^ Frame ''specs'' indicate undertank bar is three-quarters inch o.d. tubing. ^^^*


----------



## ejlwheels

I took some measurements of my frames that have under bars which are smaller than the top bar.
Measurements not caliper precise.

All appear to have top bars at 1".

Under bars are:

3/4" on 1916 Iver Johnson Truss Arch
3/4" on 1923 Westfield Archbar
7/8" on 191x Davis-made "Napolean" (motorbike style frame)
7/8" on 192x Michigan City Excelsior "DeLuxe" (motorbike style frame)
7/8" on 192x mystery make "Black Beauty" (motorbike style frame)


----------



## hoofhearted

Thank you .. *ejlwheels* ... these measurements of under-bars have not 
been documented before (to my knowledge) .. as a group .. on The CABE !!

Here's somethin' for you ... 





................  patric


----------



## hoofhearted

*1923 Flying Merkel Catalog ...............*

Many THANKS to *Scott McCaskey* for e-mailing me HIS 1923 Flying Merkel Catalog 
for publication right here .. in The CABE !!!

..... patric


----------



## catfish

I had a couple of Flying Merkel catalogs years ago. Not the one shown. Sold them.... Or I would post them. 




hoofhearted said:


> Many THANKS to *Scott McCaskey* for e-mailing me HIS 1923 Flying Merkel Catalog
> for publication right here .. in The CABE !!!
> 
> ..... patric
> 
> View attachment 129172View attachment 129173View attachment 129174View attachment 129175View attachment 129176View attachment 129177


----------



## redline1968

Wow...thanks for the posting of the catalog pics. My suspicions on my arch bar are being realized. I'm thinking 1919 might be it. Very possibly a merkel!


----------



## hoofhearted

*redline1968* ... you might as well go all the way with your archbar ......

..... patric


----------



## 2jakes

hoofhearted said:


> *redline1968* ... you might as well go all the way with your archbar ......
> 
> ..... patric
> 
> View attachment 129222








patric......

Is this available for everyone  & how much
to use this image ?
I would like to make a brass badge from this.

Thanks,
jake


----------



## fordsnake

I have a couple of unidentified teen frames, let me know when you have that repro brass badge ready?


----------



## hoofhearted

*2jakes * ... Doood ... I gotta see one o' these brass badges you are gonna make ... 
No Charge to use my image ... go for it ... !!!

Would not mind receiving one of them .. and Carlton is already mentally-attaching them to 
a coupla teen's-era, orphan frames.   Have fun .. and be careful not to hurt yourself !!!

.................  patric


----------



## hoofhearted

*Carlton / fordsnake* ... can't remember if you received one of these ... 
but here it is ... use it 'til *2jakes* gets those brass ones made !!!

The originals were NEVER attached with screw-plate screws ... The Miami-
Flying Merkel Badge was always attached with a 'bottle-cap' fitting ...

Have Fun .....

...........patric


----------



## 2jakes

hoofhearted said:


> *Carlton / fordsnake* ... can't remember if you received one of these ...
> but here it is ... use it 'til *2jakes* gets those brass ones made !!!
> 
> The originals were NEVER attached with screw-plate screws ... The Miami-
> Flying Merkel Badge was always attached with a 'bottle-cap' fitting ...
> 
> Have Fun .....
> 
> ...........patric
> 
> View attachment 129270




patric.....

Not familiar with "bottle cap" style .

I was going for the screws (one on top & one on bottom.)

It may not be original...but so is the new head-badge.

And it might be more secured this way.

Thoughts ???


----------



## hoofhearted

*2jakes* ... when you get your brass repop made ... don't use screws ... 
rough up the reverse side .. clean with lacquer thinner ... do the same on the 
'receiving-area' on the head-tube.  Use a GOOD air-craft-grade epoxy as the 
connector.


----------



## 2jakes

hoofhearted said:


> *2jakes* ... when you get your brass repop made ... don't use screws ...
> rough up the reverse side .. clean with lacquer thinner ... do the same on the
> 'receiving-area' on the head-tube.  Use a GOOD air-craft-grade epoxy as the
> connector.




Thanks !

For all the "information"...which I didn't realize was that much.

Sincerely,

jake

oh...well...maybe someday I will see if I can go visit your nice treasures...


----------



## Crazybikelady

Saw this thread & thought I'd post this for you guys. Not sure if you've seen it yet or not, check it out!!

http://cleveland.craigslist.org/mcy/4233638792.html

If only I were rich!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hoofhearted

*MARIE (Crazybikelady)* ... my what a keen and discerning eye you have !!!  The little tribute ride in your 
send appears to be very-well crafted ... and the fork ... don't know if it actually has up and down movement .. 
suspension .. but it sure looks like a Joe Merkel design.

Oh, Marie ... this is very-kool stuff ...... wait a minit ... the lights on my Christmas Tree just lit up ... somehow my 
coffee cup just got a refill ... and i heard a bell ring !!!

Thank YOU, Marie ........

...........  patric






 These Next 2 Are Not The Same Machines .. 





........ *Something for YOU* .......


----------



## Crazybikelady

hoofhearted said:


> *MARIE (Crazybikelady)* ... my what a keen and discerning eye you have !!!  *Something for YOU* .......
> 
> View attachment 129319




Why, thank you so for the words and imaginary head badge!! I've been staring at that Merkel for 3 weeks on Craigslist!! 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 2jakes

Crazybikelady said:


> Why, thank you so for the words and imaginary head badge!! I've been staring at that Merkel for 3 weeks on Craigslist!!
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




.


 


Saw this on eBay...although not exactly in the same league as the one you posted...this
is something that I could afford...


----------



## hoofhearted

*There's NO Way ...............*

*Didn't see this coming ............* 







*more fotos in the envelope ..........*





*C'mon .. now !! ...............*








*Am slippin' out for a decent cuppa coffee ......*

.............  patric


----------



## 2jakes

*Early morning biking...*











 Member > S.O.T.F.M.
****************


----------



## chitown

*1918*


----------



## bricycle

Nice Chi!!!!!!


----------



## Larmo63

While we wait on the final verdict, has anyone seen this type of Racycle bottom bracket?

I may have asked before, but Miami used a few different methods here and I'd like some

opinions on the year of this six screw BB. I've never seen another one. One year only?


----------



## Dave Stromberger

Don't know if this pic was posted yet... maybe I missed it....





info on the pic here--->   http://memories.ne.gov/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/ts&CISOPTR=81&CISOBOX=1&REC=7

Dated 1916.

"Two bicycles, one motorized, are in a window display of the Frazier Cycle Company located at 231 S. 11th Street, Lincoln, Nebraska. Signs by the bikes say: "The Flying Merkel Bicycle, High Grade in Every Part, $35.00" and "The Miami Power Bicycle, Not a make shift or attachment but a Real Motor Equipped Wheel at $115.00, ask the riders." The display includes sand, leaves and a backdrop of an outdoor scene"


----------



## Dave Stromberger

And even more Merkel bicycles from Frazier Cycle Company....


----------



## bricycle

Must be the Irish Santa...looks like he has a red beard!!!?  not white!


----------



## catfish

Dave Stromberger said:


> And even more Merkel bicycles from Frazier Cycle Company....




Very cool photos.


----------



## fat tire trader

Larmo63 said:


> While we wait on the final verdict, has anyone seen this type of Racycle bottom bracket?
> 
> I may have asked before, but Miami used a few different methods here and I'd like some
> 
> opinions on the year of this six screw BB. I've never seen another one. One year only?



It is very similar if not identical to the one on my bike. My bike is equipped just like the pacemaker in the 1918 ad above. It is hard to tell in your picture, does your crank have a threaded hole in the center. That is where the dust cap screws in that I am looking for.


----------



## moparrecyclers

*Flying Merkel Seat*

I am rather new to the Cabe......Awesome by the way!
I ran across this thread this morning and can't put it down, WOW!

I have been sitting on this seat for a while...ha!, and thought this would be the perfect thread 
for it.


----------



## 2jakes

moparrecyclers said:


> I am rather new to the Cabe......Awesome by the way!
> I ran across this thread this morning and can't put it down, WOW!
> 
> I have been sitting on this seat for a while...ha!, and thought this would be the perfect thread
> for it.




*Welcome Aboard !

And ....some friendly advice...when you post & share...
you literally have to share....*





Hmmm...I'll take some trident..Thank you !  

*Keep us posted on your projects..!*


----------



## fordsnake

Your saddle is a stamped Racycle "Maximus" by Pearson, found on the Racycles.


----------



## moparrecyclers

*Age?*



fordsnake said:


> Your saddle is a stamped Racycle "Maximus" by Pearson, found on the Racycles.



I noticed that this one was most likely cadium or chrome plated when new as there is still some left on it.
Any idea of age?
I am sorry for posting this on the Flying Merkel thread, but I thought this may have been a seat from a Merkel. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Larmo63

My Racycle cranks have no dust covers.....just the six screws....very rare!

Last year Racycle?


----------



## fordsnake

moparrecyclers said:


> I noticed that this one was most likely cadium or chrome plated when new as there is still some left on it.
> Any idea of age?
> I am sorry for posting this on the Flying Merkel thread, but I thought this may have been a seat from a Merkel. Thanks for the help.




The Maltese cross is not Merkel, instead its proprietary to the Racycle. However both brands used either a Person or Troxel saddles.


----------



## ejlwheels

I apologize in advance = this is _not_ my bike

I was looking through some pics I had saved to put them in folders.
I thought this might be made by Great Western (or even Snyder) based on the style of the paint darts?

But then the lugs and fender bridges made me think it might be a child of Miami…?


----------



## fordsnake

Well I'm almost done with this Merkel project. Many thanks to Dave S. for the 60T chainring. I now need to find a Morrow rear sprocket...I'm working on the decals for the head tube, down tube and the tank.





















I need a 20, 22, or 24 tooth - 1/2 " rear sprocket for this hub.


----------



## chitown

*Nice!!!*

Beautiful job on a rare beauty! Museum worthy!


----------



## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

Wow...very awesome! !

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## hoofhearted

fordsnake said:


> Well I'm almost done with this Merkel project. Many thanks to Dave S. for the 60T chainring. I now need to find a Morrow rear sprocket...I'm working on the decals for the head tube, down tube and the tank.





*Carlton ... your Merkel is a joy to see ... PRIMO Craftsmanship !!! 

Oh Yeah ... Daddy Like !!!*

...........  patric


===============================================================
===============================================================


----------



## tailhole

totally amazing.  what a fine, well detailed machine.  Love that fork and bottom bracket too.  Wow!


----------



## Dave Stromberger

Kickarse! Outstanding work. So glad to see that chainring find a good home! I'll keep an eye open for a 1/2" pitch rear sprocket... probably one of those things where ya gotta find a parts hub to get it.


----------



## Dave Stromberger

*1920's Flying Merkel Motorbike*

Came out of PA, just arrived today. I put it back together as-found. It is "barn fresh"... pardon the cliché.


----------



## Dave Stromberger

Some detail shots of things before I put it back together....


----------



## Dave Stromberger




----------



## barracuda

Dave Stromberger said:


> Some detail shots of things before I put it back together....
> 
> View attachment 146791View attachment 146798View attachment 146799View attachment 146797View attachment 146800View attachment 146796View attachment 146795View attachment 146794View attachment 146793View attachment 146792




Absolutely stunning bike. Question: is that rear hub an armless Musselman?


----------



## Dave Stromberger

barracuda said:


> Absolutely stunning bike. Question: is that rear hub an armless Musselman?





Yes it is, with an oversize sprocket.  I wonder how late this hub was used? I've seen it on early 1900's stuff, but not on something from the 20's before.


----------



## fat tire trader

fordsnake said:


> I need a 20, 22, or 24 tooth - 1/2 " rear sprocket for this hub.




Are you planning on using that beautiful Morrow hub on your Merkel? Isn't it a lot older than the bike? I think that if it were to have a Morrow, that it should have the one with the oval brass badge on the brake arm.


----------



## rustyspoke66

I just laced that same hub into a P35.


----------



## fat tire trader

Dave Stromberger said:


> Some detail shots of things before I put it back together....
> 
> View attachment 146791View attachment 146798View attachment 146799View attachment 146797View attachment 146800



I've been thinking that the correct crankset for my 1918?-1923? Racycle is like the one on Dave's Merkel, but with an R in the sprocket. But now after seeing Dave's bottom bracket shell and how it is so much longer on the drive side, I'm puzzled. Does anyone know what the crank and sprocket should be like on my bike? Does anyone have a Racycle catalog from 1918 or later? 



More photos of my bike can be seen here 
http://www.fattiretrading.com/1918_racycle.html
Thanks,
Chris


----------



## hoofhearted

Dave Stromberger said:


> Some detail shots of things before I put it back together....






*DAVE ... what a great machine !!    Unusual to see a Merkel with darts on the frame ... as well as removable 
truss-rods ..... but the moneyshot is not just the new-style chainring, with the multiple-F feature ... checkout 
how the teeth are directly over the bearing-area ... very nice, that.  

If you get a chance .. can you pul-eeeze try to get a tiny feeler of sorts behind the badge via that portal that 
appears in this foto of yours.  Doood .. i gots to know if the badge is the type that has a stamped-reveal in the back 
(like H-D) ... or if the badge is the smooth variety, on the backside, that Miami also used to use.

Your Flying Merkel represents my first experience with the marque past 1917.

Thank you, Dave .............  patric*














=================================================================================================
=================================================================================================


----------



## Dave Stromberger

_"Doood .. i gots to know if the badge is the type that has a stamped-reveal in the back 
(like H-D) ... or if the badge is the smooth variety, on the backside, that Miami also used to use"_

Patric, the badge is stamped, like a HD badge. I did as you asked, and yep, not a smooth thick casting. Also sounds tinny and hollow when I tap on it.


----------



## hoofhearted

Dave Stromberger said:


> Patric, the badge is stamped, like a HD badge. I did as you asked, and yep, not a smooth thick casting. Also sounds tinny and hollow when I tap on it.





*Thank you for that quick response Dave !!  

I added one of your pics to my previous entry ... i.e., ring-teeth over bearing surface ......  

Damn, DAVE  .... i'm really excited for you .....  Good Form on this acquirement !!!*


...........  patric



===================================================================
===================================================================


----------



## Dave Stromberger

Thanks Patric, yes I agree, the bearing to chainring alignment is a pretty cool design. Someone, I think Fordsnake, posted a scan from the 1921 brochure illustrating the crankset. Did you notice the bearing cups with clearance notches machined into them, to make it possible to remove the crank with them installed? That extra wide crank hanger would be a bugger otherwise!


----------



## fordsnake

Dave, I'm still wiping away the drool!


----------



## hoofhearted

Dave Stromberger said:


> the bearing to chainring alignment is a pretty cool design. Someone, I think Fordsnake, posted a scan from the 1921 brochure illustrating the crankset. Did you notice the bearing cups with clearance notches machined into them, to make it possible to remove the crank with them installed? That extra wide crank hanger would be a bugger otherwise!





More of your fotos, Dave ..........





 *Added 7/3/2014*














===================================================================================================
===================================================================================================


----------



## Dave Stromberger

Any clue as to the date of this bike? There are certainly enough numbers stamped into the crank hanger! Any of that compare to other 20's Miami built bikes?


----------



## hoofhearted

Dave Stromberger said:


> Any clue as to the date of this bike? There are certainly enough numbers stamped into the crank hanger! Any of that compare to other 20's Miami built bikes?





*Because the 60-T Star ring was obsolete by late 1918 ... AND ... the 5-spoke ring (60-T) was used 1918 and 1919 ... 
your machine could be from ...........

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  1920

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  1921

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  1922*

Although there is a 1923 Flying Merkel Catalog posted by Scott McCaskey .. the reality of a FM bicycle from 1923 is shaky at best. (pure opinion)



=====================================================================================
=====================================================================================


----------



## Dave Stromberger

hoofhearted said:


> *Why do you believe from the 20's ...*



*

Is there any evidence that the "F" chainring existed prior to 1921?

Any other bikes known with this chainring?*


----------



## hoofhearted

Dave Stromberger said:


> Is there any evidence that the "F" chainring existed prior to 1921?
> 
> Any other bikes known with this chainring?






*The following chunks of belief have been committed to my memory ... although i still retain 
these useful chunks ... i cannot remember the actual-source of the information or reason for the retention.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  1917 ..... Spring ..... Last Quarter for the Use Of The DECAL For A Badge On The FM.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  1917  ..... Summer... .. First Quarter for the Use Of The Metal Badge On A FM.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  1917  ..... Is the LAST year for the Use of The Sixty-T STAR Chainring ... AND .. The Final Year For FM Motorcycle Production.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~   1918 .....  First Year for 5-Spoke, Sixty-T Chainring. * 

NOTE -- The Five-Spoke, Sixty-T Chainring was used on Miami-badged rides in 1915.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  1919  ..... 5-Spoke, Sixty-T Chainring continues .. at least at the beginning of 1919. *






Low-Information Readers may see the above as a signal to throw rocks at this writer.  High-Information Readers may 
see the above as a signal to do further research .. especially factory catalogs and advertising.

Who do you know that has a source of original or copied FM bicycle catalogs from 1918 thru 1923 .. that will share their 
info with us ?

Please post your findings within this thread (Anyone here own a Miami Flying Merkel Bicycle ?).  I welcome your findings 
and you won't get an argument outta me.*

This has gotta be a bunch of fun for some of us !!

..........  patric


***
_*  This Entry was amended 6/11/2014 to reflect information posted by fordsnake ( Entry # 336 ) ...
 AND chitown ( Entry # 338 ).*_

=====================================================================================
=====================================================================================


----------



## fordsnake

Dave, based on the attached images of the 1917 and 1918, your frame matches both of these models perfectly.  The 1921- 1923 has a slightly larger space between the top double bars near the seat tube. Also the fenders on the '21-'23 are deeper and have a double brace on the front fender.  I suspect your bike is either a 1919 or a 1920 Merkel...hard to know for sure without catalogs?


----------



## Dave Stromberger

Thanks Patric and Carlton,

I see the difference in the frames now, but also... and maybe It's just an illusion, it almost looks like perhaps the 21 and 23 frames illustrated have more rake to the head and seat tubes?  

My bike had a double brace on the front fender originally. The lower mounting point has been trimmed, and there is a hole in the fender too.

Notice the lack of a diamond painted on the seat tube of my bike. Also, the color combination of orange with maroon accent is not mentioned in the 21 or 23 catalog.


----------



## chitown

*1918 lit for 1919 models... no motorbike?*

the government material restrictions are mentioned in this ad limiting the number of models. So no motorbikes in early '19 at least. They may have reintroduced some after the restrictions weren't in place.


----------



## fordsnake

Chitown as always, another great find!!!



Dave Stromberger said:


> I see the difference in the frames now, but also... and maybe It's just an illusion, it almost looks like perhaps the 21 and 23 frames illustrated have more rake to the head and seat tubes?
> Notice the lack of a diamond painted on the seat tube of my bike. Also, the color combination of orange with maroon accent is not mentioned in the 21 or 23 catalog.




Yeah, it does appear there's more rake in the later models...almost like the Sears Chief? Regarding the seat tube dart and the colors of the 21 & 23, it's why I suggest your bike is a 1919 or 1920 model?


----------



## hoofhearted

*More Good Info From fordsnake (Carlton) and chitown(Chris) ... Good Form  !!!*

EXCELLENT !!!!!!!

........  patric




===============================================================
===============================================================


----------



## Dave Stromberger

Cool! Thanks Chitown... nice to see some illustrations for 1919!  Yep, I agree with your logic Fordsnake, it's gotta be '19 or '20. The 1919 Merkel ad illustrates the bikes with no seat-tube diamond, but still lacking the "F" chainring. Also, as Chitown points out, the lack of Motorbike models illustrated may (or may not) mean they didn't make them that year. Perhaps the "F" chainring was introduced later in 1919?


----------



## Dave Stromberger

Here's Miami proudly advertising the Musselman "Armless Wonder". July 1919. That is later than I though these hubs were being used. Makes sense now after seeing this, why my Merkel has one installed.

This catalog reprint, found here ---> http://www.proteanpaper.com/scart_r...eyall=&srkeywords=&srcateg=000000000000000254 shows again, Miami proudly pushing the Musselman hubs.


----------



## chitown

*1915*


----------



## fordsnake

chitown said:


> *1914*



1914 and 1915?  Cool!


----------



## hoofhearted

*Not the FM .. but it's brother Miami Bulldog for 1915...*


----------



## hoofhearted

*1917 Flying Merkel Chassis ...*

*Had my '17 chassis on display at MLC and AA for educational purposes.  Dave Stromberger took a 
buncha pics ... will post them with captions (where appropriate) when Dave forwards them to me.*

..........  patric


foto ... Dave Stromberger





The tires and wheelsets to the right of the machine are unassociated.



=================================================================================================
=================================================================================================


----------



## mike j

Oopps...sorry, disregard, I thought this was the "Anyone here wish they own a Flying Merkel Bicycle? thread.


----------



## catfish

Some nice Miami MFG badges I just picked up.


----------



## Wcben

Cool selection of badges Catfish!


----------



## catfish

Wcben said:


> Cool selection of badges Catfish!




Thanks! I'm glad I got them.


----------



## hoofhearted

*Spring 2014 -- Early 1917 Flying Merkel ... and Late 1917 Flying Merkel Motorbikes*

*Two FM motorbikes were displayed at Spring 2014 MLC and AA.  

The Early 1917 belongs to snowmanss-s10 (Vaughn) of The CABE.

The Late 1917, parallel-bar motorbike chassis, will appear in two-more 
entries from now ... it belongs to me.

Vaughn's Early-'17 takes two full entries.

Here we go with Vaughn's rock-steady machine .....*































The next entry also features the rest of Vaughn's Early-17 Flying Merkel.

Thanks to Dave Stromberger of The CABE for the fotos .....

..... patric 


================================================================
================================================================


----------



## hoofhearted

hoofhearted said:


> *Two FM motorbikes were displayed at Spring 2014 MLC and AA.
> 
> The Early 1917 belongs to snowmanss-s10 (Vaughn) of The CABE.
> 
> Vaughn's Early-'17 takes two full entries. THIS ENTRY IS THE SECOND ENTRY.
> 
> Here we go with Vaughn's rock-steady machine .....  LAST SET OF FOTOS.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to Dave Stromberger of The CABE for the fotos  .....
> 
> ..... patric





My Late '17 FM comin' up very next entry ...........

======================================================================
======================================================================


----------



## hoofhearted

hoofhearted said:


> *Two FM motorbikes were displayed at Spring 2014 MLC and AA.
> 
> The Early 1917 belongs to snowmanss-s10 (Vaughn) of The CABE.
> 
> The Late 1917, parallel-bar motorbike chassis, will appear now  ... it belongs to me.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to Dave Stromberger of The CABE for the fotos .....
> 
> ..... patric




POST SCRIPT ... just got back from Maysville KY .. grandson has a large package for me ... 
inside ... pair of matching (to the late '17 FM chassis) --- _set of Davis-type deep fenders AND 
a very-nice, choice original leather Tip-Top Saddle,  ... _not putting tillers on this machine ... 
low, North-American, bars that have an attitude for scorching are much-more appropriate.  

Son Of A Bisquit Eater .......  Daddy Like !!!!!!



======================================================
======================================================


----------



## 2jakes

hoofhearted said:


> *Two FM motorbikes were displayed at Spring 2014 MLC and AA.
> 
> The Early 1917 belongs to snowmanss-s10 (Vaughn) of The CABE.
> 
> The Late 1917, parallel-bar motorbike chassis, will appear in two-more
> entries from now ... it belongs to me.
> 
> Vaughn's Early-'17 takes two full entries.
> 
> Here we go with Vaughn's rock-steady machine .....*
> 
> View attachment 149701
> 
> View attachment 149702
> 
> View attachment 149703
> 
> View attachment 149704
> 
> View attachment 149705
> 
> View attachment 149706
> 
> View attachment 149707
> 
> 
> The next entry also features the rest of Vaughn's Early-17 Flying Merkel.
> 
> Thanks to Dave Stromberger of The CABE for the fotos .....
> 
> ..... patric
> 
> 
> ================================================================
> ================================================================




*Great bikes...*

patric...
Most of the rare bikes from the early era that I have seen here
are in their original condition even if not complete.

Others may feel different about this...but I like that they are
still "as is" in their original if faded colors...

*Thank You for sharing !*


----------



## snowmanss-s10

*Thanks*

Thank you patric for giving me more information on the merkel and thank you dave for taking great pictures of the merkel

I really enjoyed meeting everyone at the shows this year and hope to see you all at more shows.

Thanks vaughn


----------



## bikeyard

*Merkel*

There was an original paint Merkel motorcycle at the Keene swap meet in NH last year.


----------



## catfish

bikeyard said:


> There was an original paint Merkel motorcycle at the Keene swap meet in NH last year.




The Spring motorcycle swap at Keene was today. Did you go?


----------



## bikeyard

*Merkel*

I did not go.


----------



## hoofhearted

* Decals ......... *











Always Supposed To Be With A Silver Base Under Black Lines .... not the copper and gold stuff ........

.........  patric



============================
============================


----------



## bikeyard

*Merkel*

I tried to get a price out of the guy last year and all I got was "Bags of Money"  Since I was fresh out of those I moved on, but it was nice.


----------



## Dave Stromberger

Did some cleaning on my Merkel... didn't do a thorough job, because I'm not sure if I even should. Maybe leave it a little grimey? Added some white tires too.


----------



## Freqman1

Sweet bike Dave. I hope that you add these and the others you've taken recently to your site. V/r Shawn


----------



## Nickinator

I like it just the way it is now, A little grimy to show the age and clean enough to show its true colors.  wonderful job Dave, Bravo!

Nick.



Dave Stromberger said:


> Did some cleaning on my Merkel... didn't do a thorough job, because I'm not sure if I even should. Maybe leave it a little grimey? Added some white tires too.
> 
> View attachment 150753View attachment 150754


----------



## hoofhearted

Nickinator said:


> I like it just the way it is now, A little grimy to show the age and clean enough to show its true colors.  wonderful job Dave, Bravo!
> 
> Nick.





*Am with Nick on this one .. Dave.   Great Work !!*

............ patric


----------



## mick5cents

I really like that bike,nice job.


----------



## Nickinator

Here is a catalog ad that's on ebay at the moment, 



Nick.


----------



## bricycle

Thanks Dave/Nick etc...


----------



## American Vintage Bicycle Supply

love the white tires


----------



## hoofhearted

*Edit and Amend Notification .......*

*Entry # 335 Of This Thread Has Been Edited and Amended.*

*Page 34 of This Thread.*


........  patric cafaro





======================================
======================================


----------



## luckyfind

*Wow*

that bike is amazing. i love the way the original color popped out. Great work nice find


----------



## oldwhizzer

*Miami Built Bulldog Raycycle*

Not Sure of the year Original orange paint whats left of it with red over it. Thinking of putting 12 Coats of Clear Matt Finish cuz 8 just ain't enough! thats for patrick


----------



## hoofhearted

oldwhizzer said:


> Not Sure of the year Original orange paint whats left of it with red over it. Thinking of putting 12 Coats of Clear Matt Finish cuz 8 just ain't enough! thats for patric





*1914 / 1915.

oldwhizzer ... both you and that sweet machine ROCK !!!   Lay on that beautiful Clear Matt Spray !!

Also ... that IS red primer ... a Miami and Davis thang ... yours being Miami and having ORANGE over 
the red. 

P.K. ... I know you got all discombobulated because you are in the presence of that ride ...
it may look like red over orange ... but after downloading a few of your fotos .. and leaning on the 
magnification button ... soma-nah-beech ...  i got orange paint all over my forehead. 

Gentle readers ... I got no way to help you escape the heat of this way-kool-ass machine ... got no control .. 
but, just for  grins ... peep the lack of doglegs in the chainstays ...... oh, heck yeah ... can't fool you .... 
this is intentionally-done to bring that rear-axel as close as can be to the front axel ...

The Result ... Quick Steering.

So what do we have here ... up to the minit, friction-reduction in the crank bearings (the bearings are located
within the same plane as the chainring) ..... a very-rigid frame / fork combo .. allowing NO surplus energy from 
the pilot into the frame (the better part of the energy travels straight to the rear wheel) COMBINED WITH THAT 
QUICK-STEER FEATURE ......... a mid-teen's Scorcher garr-un-teed to be a menace to society and free-roaming 
animals wherever streets are paved.

Sweet Jesus, Mary  and Joseph ... air up the tires ... i'm goin' ta Heaven !!!*


...........  patric


=========================
=========================


----------



## Wcben

Love. That Bulldog! Very cool!!


----------



## hoofhearted

*1917 Flying Merkel at Fairborn's Links and Kinks Bike Show 2014*

*Bunch of CABErs attended the 2nd Annual Links and Kinks Bicycle Show and Swap Meet 
in Fairborn, Ohio ... Saturday .. June 28.

Ron M. (Oldnut) snapped some fotos of my 1917 Merk entered in the original class.*












 

*Pics were taken when the show was over by Oldnut.  Thank YOU - Ron *

.........  patric



==============
==============


----------



## hoofhearted

*Girl's FM For Sale .....*

*Just yesterday a fellow-collector and friend tipped me off as to the existence of a 
Girl's Flying Merkel bicycle for sale.  My fellow CABEr friend shall remain nameless, 
for now.  Maybe if he gives me permission, I will identify.*

Budget Bicycle Center has the machine.

Am documenting the info in fotos .. for historical-reference purposes.

Thank YOU - to my Friend.


............  patric

















============
============


----------



## dmk441

*Merkel girls bike*

Patric, I'm glad you posted this for the group. I should have thought of posting it when I first saw it. It is interesting reference material indeed. It would be a nice bike to own, with the original paint nature of it, but it is slightly more expensive than I could afford to spend on a girls bike. I'm curious how many of the girls merkels are even out there??

I appreciate everyone who has contributed to this thread so far, it has been very interesting material for those of us interested in the Miami/Merkel line. 

Patric, it has been great getting to correspond with you recently. We've had some very enthusiastic Merkel/Miami discussions! 

Dave


----------



## hoofhearted

dmk441 said:


> Patric, I'm glad you posted this for the group.  It is interesting reference material indeed. I'm curious how many of the girls merkels are even out there??
> 
> I appreciate everyone who has contributed to this thread so far, it has been very interesting material for those of us interested in the Miami/Merkel line.
> 
> Patric, it has been great getting to correspond with you recently. We've had some very enthusiastic Merkel/Miami discussions!
> 
> Dave




*Great chattin' with you - Brother Dave.  Until you told me about this machine, i had no idea a girl's machine was even out there.
Always enjoy talkin' with you, Dave !!!

Took the downtube foto and ... using paint.NET ... rotated it a few degrees so as to peep it in a legible manner.*


Thanks - Dave ...... 

.......  patric









========
========


----------



## dmk441

*Merkel Light*

Here's a few more Merkel photos, although Merkel Motorcycle related. I'm not sure if we captured them or not yet. Some of them are Merkel Light.  

Also Patric, I think we discussed the Merkel Light decal. I couldn't find a good picture, but here is what I found. Enjoy!

Dave


----------



## Nickinator

here is a picture of a 1917 frame next to a 1919 frame. same design with tiny differences

Nick.


----------



## hoofhearted

*Note differences in Chainring Design.*



















=================
=================


----------



## catfish

Brother Patric,    You are the Merkel Guru! Thanks for all the cool info.

    Catfish


----------



## hoofhearted

catfish said:


> Brother Patric,   Thanks for all the cool info.
> 
> Catfish




*Brother Catfish ... you are very welcome ... but I can't take credit for the initial-posting of those magazine cuts.

Am indebted to fordsnake (Carlton) .. and .. chitown (Chris) for those.

I did edit and modify some chronological information I had posted, earlier.  The entry now reflects info posted by 
way of those magazine cuts provided by fordsnake and chitown.

See Page 34 ... Entry #335 ... of this thread.*


.........  patric


==========
==========


----------



## Nickinator

I have been super lazy and just this morning decided to put my 1917 merkel project together for a photo or two. I have the correct saddle on its way and im only missing 1 correct fender brace along with the rack and pedals.

Nick.


----------



## catfish

Nickinator said:


> I have been super lazy and just this morning decided to put my 1917 merkel project together for a photo or two. I have the correct saddle on its way and im only missing 1 correct fender brace along with the rack and pedals.
> 
> Nick.
> View attachment 158581View attachment 158583View attachment 158582




Very cool Nick! Is that a Merkel badge too?


----------



## fordsnake

Here's a ML decal. As always great job Patric! I'm sorry for my absence, but I've been preoccupied with the RatRod build off.


----------



## Nickinator

Yup merkel badge and all 

Nick. 



catfish said:


> Very cool Nick! Is that a Merkel badge too?


----------



## catfish

Nickinator said:


> Yup merkel badge and all
> 
> Nick.




Very Cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## hoofhearted

Nickinator said:


> just this morning decided to put my 1917 merkel project together for a photo or two. I have the correct saddle on its way and im only missing 1 correct fender brace along with the rack and pedals.
> 
> Nick.




*I say -- I say ... That ain't no J.C. Higgins, son ... That Is A Flying Merkel !!*


Very PROUD of you Nick ... you done good !!!!!!!


..... patric


=================================
=================================


----------



## hoofhearted

fordsnake said:


> Here's a ML decal. As always great job Patric! I'm sorry for my absence, but I've been preoccupied with the RatRod build off.





*WELCOME BACK -- fordsnake ... seems like you've been away an eternity.  Hope things are going well on that build.

Great Merkel Light Decal ... have always wondered if that company in Pottstown, PA ever made bicycles ... along with 
the motorcycles they built.   For those of you readers who may not know, The Merkel-Light Motor Co. was purchased by 
The Miami Cycle & Manuf. Co. (Middletown, OH) in 1911.*

Thanks again -- Carlton !


....... patric













=============
=============


----------



## hoofhearted

*How'd You Do Dat ??*

*C'mon, now ... have had waaay too many good CABErs writin' me off the line ... patric ... what's the story on
those B-Tracker Bars ... How did you set up that saddle a-la B-Tracker ... What kinda saddle is that ??*









*The flat-drop bars were salvaged from the ass-end of a beater Colson trike frame.  7/8" OD with a 1" center sleeve.
Measured the exact INSIDE DISTANCE between the dropped ends.  

Vised them up ... sparked the torch ... cherry-red in the curve of the bar-end Not vised ... 3-Foot Solid Steel Rod in the 
bar-end makes a great lever .....that bar-end gets pulled exactly 7/8" away from the vised end.  Let 'er cool.

Place the modified end in the vise ... sparked the torch .. repeat.  If you are met with good fortune, those modded ends 
will lay flat on a granite countertop.  If not .. torch and tweak.

Balloontyre gifted me with a seat stem .. a seat stem that does it's job very-well .. all-the-while operating in stealth-mode ..
(the seat stem, not Ivo ...).  Are you wonderin' if this type of stem has a special name ??  At sometime in my life i heard a 
reference to a similar stem ... stooler ... (please keep your thoughts to yourself .. especially if those thoughts were generated 
by a mind that's been generating dirty thoughts since Noah first saw a billy-goat and a ... aw, never mind).

The saddle is a Sager ... very similar to BBC's Girl's Flying Merkel that he has for sale.  My saddle choice and the appearance 
of the girl's FM saddle are purely coincidental.

Now peep these pics .....*


...... patric


















=================
=================


----------



## fordsnake

Nick, I know I've been gone for a couple of months...but that Merkel looks very familiar to that lugged Miami you purchased, the one that had the split in the drive side chain stay?


----------



## Nickinator

Headbadge was shot, fork was shot front fender was shot, So it didn't leave me with much. Other then a rare frame. I have worked extremely hard to find all the parts. I have two of these frames I chose to use this one  this frame is identical to Vaughn's original paint merkel. 



fordsnake said:


> Nick, I know I've been gone for a couple of months...but that Merkel looks very familiar to that lugged Miami you purchased, the one that had the split in the drive side chain stay?


----------



## hoofhearted

Nickinator said:


> Headbadge was shot, fork was shot front fender was shot, So it didn't leave me with much. Other then a rare frame. I have worked extremely hard to find all the parts. I have two of these frames I chose to use this one  this frame is identical to Vaughn's original paint merkel.





*Nick ... if your experience in locating specific Miami-Built parts is similar to mine ... 
and you met with success ... you have earned for yourself a well-deserved vacation 
to The South of France.

Finding Miami-Built pieces is near impossible.  I applaud you for your efforts to build 
a complete and correct bicycle.  

Am always thinkin' ... where the heck are all the Miami pieces - that was a big company.  
Seems like i trip over Davis stuff .. but, Miami - that's another story.

You done good - Nick !!*


..... patric



===============
===============


----------



## chitown

*Grandma Ethel has a secret...*


----------



## hoofhearted

*Miami-Built Seat-Stem Attachment Variation .....*

*Whammo ...great foto of Ethel Roll on that Merkel, chitown !!!

While diggin' this Michigan-built Hudson ... noticed the manner of retaining the 
seat stem in the upper seat mast.

A few months later, grabbed these fotos (offa e-bay) of a girl's Miami with the 
same features.*

*There are very many variations of sections of Miami-Built frames and forks.  The 
lack of a seat-binder pinch bolt has been seen by a few collectors, but now we 
have some documentation.*


...........  patric














 
*Frame is a Miami-Built, Miami-Badged frame lacking a seat-binder pinch bolt.*









======================
======================


----------



## hoofhearted

*Dave S. ... thank you for attaching the last three fotos in entry #395 ... 
I could not get them to attach.  

Am nominating you for Time Magazine's, Computer Man of The Year !!

Good Form - Dave !!!*

.... patric



===================
===================


----------



## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

hoofhearted said:


> *Dave S. ... thank you for attaching the last three fotos in entry #395 ...
> I could not get them to attach.
> 
> Am nominating you for Time Magazine's, Computer Man of The Year !!
> 
> Good Form - Dave !!!*
> 
> .... patric
> 
> 
> 
> ===================
> ===================



Found a pic for you guys


----------



## hoofhearted

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> Found a pic for you guys.





*Thank YOU - Obi Wan Schwinnobi ... a very Kool pin-back, indeed.*


............  patric


----------



## bricycle

"F'n" Merkel! That could be the next catch-phraise... "You Fly'n Merkel!$#@*&!"


----------



## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi

bricycle said:


> "F'n" Merkel! That could be the next catch-phraise... "You Fly'n Merkel!$#@*&!"



You ok Brian?


----------



## bricycle

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> You ok Brian?




...sadly no, great pin pic OB!


----------



## hoofhearted

Obi-Wan Schwinnobi said:


> You ok Brian?





*Obi-Wan-Schwinnobi ... i do believe Bri has hit upon something here.  

He's usin' Fly'n' Merkel as an expletive.  For a while he was callin' some of us North 
American Spaghetti Swirlers ... or, in my case .. he called me a Willie Nelson Woo Woo 
in a PM once ... but said he meant it in a good way.  

I don't think Bri is fascinated with increasing his tally, of late.  Although he did suggest 
that one CABEr was a Tally-Whacker with little regard for bicycles that are still in 
one piece.  Methinks he is somewhat disappointed with the whole notion of parting out.*

...........  patric

*Obi-Wan ... am typing in Whisper-Mode, now ...... Once on the fone .. Bri called me a Fart Smeller .... 
then rapidly tried to play it off by changing it out ... calling me a Smart Feller.*



=================================
=================================


----------



## ace

*Miami Built New England Archbar*

Some more pics of said bike, sorry about close up shot. Now the $6000 question,,,, to restore or not? The bike was repainted when I got a few years ago. I brought it down to bare metal and discovered some bondo on one of the stays so I removed and filled it in with wire weld and ground it smooth. No harm done and should provide for a confident ride. I'm not much for restored bikes and prefer an original look. I value your opinion on these matters Patric. What do you think? Any










one?


----------



## Iverider

I would coat it with something be it paint or clear or a metal protectant.

I think I'd do it up! At this point, the only original finish you'd be retaining is the nickel (which you could leave as is, but might look funny with the shiny new paint)

There's always the distresstoration option which is a bit fake in my opinion.


----------



## hoofhearted

ace said:


> Some more pics of said bike, sorry about close up shot. Now the $6000 question,,,, to restore or not? The bike was repainted when I got a few years ago. I brought it down to bare metal and discovered some bondo on one of the stays so I removed and filled it in with wire weld and ground it smooth. No harm done and should provide for a confident ride. I'm not much for restored bikes and prefer an original look. I value your opinion on these matters Patric. What do you think? Anyone?





*ACE ... Hop back to PAGE 18 .. Entry #172 of this thread.  Very interesting.

Back to your questions, now.  Look, you have an almost-clean canvas.

Lose the New England badge and you will have a completely-clean  canvas.

Please consider doing this as a Miami ...... 

Not a Racycle, as these take special cranksets.  Not a Hudson as these take 
D. & J. cranksets (mostly).  Not a Merkel, as these take specific chainrings.

Let me say that I do agree with Krautwaggen to a point ... a dis-restoration option 
"is a bit fake" ... but no more fake than the application of new paint in correct colors 
... as a restoration.  

The only thing that is not fake is that which is original.  

Personally, I can see a dis-restoration in the case of your Miami ... you could use your 
brightwork as-is.  And, ace, after speaking with you at MLC in the Spring ... i remember 
how much you like 'character' in a bicycle.  Me, too.

BREATHE DEEP ... 

Now let's consider that archbar frame.  The earliest Miami-Built Archbar Frame I have 
seen is from a late 1914 article showing a 1915 Miami model ... below.

The 1915 Model Archbar has a small, visible, bridge between the top-bar and the archbar.

I do not know if Miami was using the Hercules Head, in 1915 (like on your machine) ... my thoughts 
are that they were not.  

But please do not trust my thoughts.   Do some research.  This includes Miami badge options 
... color .. and chainring options for a Miami ... that will fit your particular frame.

Right now you are running a 26-T, Four-Circle.  Other 26-T ring designs were also used.

It's possible you could run a 28-T or 30-T in your frame.  Do some research.*


...... patric
















*Note Differences In Chainring Design On A 1915 Miami Bulldog.*


















=====================================
=====================================


----------



## ace

Awesome info. Love the lit. pics. I'll enjoy it as is for now and will post pics when i decide which way to go. Thanks for all your help Patric and others!


----------



## Larmo63

*Racycle restoration is ongoing*

Here is a nice old saddle on my sometime-soon-to-be-never-finished Racycle roadster.....(teaser)


----------



## Dave Stromberger

Larmo63 said:


> Here is a nice old saddle on my sometime-soon-to-be-never-finished Racycle roadster.....(teaser)




Wow... very nice. Who did the leather?


----------



## Wcben

Lawrence, I'm convinced that you were previously employed in the adult entertainment industry as you're suuuuuch a tease......


----------



## Larmo63

That leather top is actually an original top..........Sager imprint


----------



## bike

*Remington ad*



dave the wave said:


> here's a ad.




rocks!!!!!

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showth...Flying-Merkel-Bicycle/page12&highlight=merkel


----------



## Nickinator

Got a few new parts on My Merkel. and took it out for a photo-shoot.

Nick.


----------



## pedal4416

*heres the original pictures*

A little clearer than Patrics original posting.
View attachment 171194
View attachment 171202View attachment 171201View attachment 171200View attachment 171199View attachment 171198View attachment 171197View attachment 171196View attachment 171195View attachment 171203


----------



## pedal4416




----------



## JO BO

*girls merkel*

So is this a 1917 as it had a decal? Thanks


----------



## Freqman1

*Merkel Scout*

So here's one that has been listed a coupled of times. Listed as 1916 Merkel Scout. Thoughts? V/r Shawn

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=251701050118


----------



## Nickinator

Here is a few pictures of an original 1916 to help us with decals i believe its a 16 or 17 

Nick


----------



## barracuda

Freqman1 said:


> So here's one that has been listed a coupled of times. Listed as 1916 Merkel Scout. Thoughts? V/r Shawn
> 
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=251701050118




I've been looking pretty hard at that one because it has some parts I need, specifically some of the bottom bracket hardware. But if you compare it to the catalogue, or to the '16 Scout sold by Nickinator here, there're some issues. Particularly the joints at the head tube, which appear to be externally lugged. That seems wrong. And it looks to me as if a grinder had been used in that area as well.The seller says the fork tube was split, but either that head tube lugging is a pretty extensive repair, or the frame isn't right.  





Anyway, I made him what I consider an extravagant offer on the parts I needed. He demurred, and it finally sold.


----------



## Dave Stromberger

Finally got some fresh pics of my Merkel after I'd done some light cleaning and changed the tires.  Posted to nostalgic.net here ->> http://www.nostalgic.net/1919-flying-merkel-motorbike


----------



## mike j

Nice photo of a great bike.


----------



## bikewhorder

Oh man, that is sah-weet.


----------



## catfish

Dave Stromberger said:


> Finally got some fresh pics of my Merkel after I'd done some light cleaning and changed the tires.  Posted to nostalgic.net here ->> http://www.nostalgic.net/1919-flying-merkel-motorbike
> 
> View attachment 207310




This bike ROCKS!


----------



## Nickinator

Thought I'd post some updated pics on this thread of my 1917 Flying Merkel done- took the Troxel Tip Top seat off and put a rider seat on so I can ride it 

Nick


----------



## mike j

Great bike & beautiful job. Much attention to detail, looks like it's ready to get up & go. Good riding.


----------



## Goldenindian

Saw it at Minneapolis show in person. Beautiful job. Will not soon forget it.


----------



## bombollis

Just picked up this frame, I was told it was a flying merkel. I can't decide if it's Miami built or not. Has threaded dropouts (I've seen these on FM's before, but not prevalent). Been professionally re-sprayed in the 90's, no headbadge holes.

Any thoughts?


----------



## bombollis




----------



## Cdollar4

We're most Merkel kind of lugged together. I'm not sure just asking a question.


----------



## bombollis

I believe they were Braised together by immersion process. Internally lugged head tubes, combined with fish mounts if they have a cross tube. 
I think some late frames had external lugs


----------



## barracuda

Somewhat random, I know, but I happened upon this picture of Von Dutch hisself kicking over a Merkel and I had to share...


----------



## Cdollar4

Right on I learn something every day. Thank you Colby


----------



## bombollis

bombollis said:


> Just picked up this frame, I was told it was a flying merkel. I can't decide if it's Miami built or not. Has threaded dropouts (I've seen these on FM's before, but not prevalent). Been professionally re-sprayed in the 90's, no headbadge holes.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> View attachment 242277View attachment 242278View attachment 242279View attachment 242280View attachment 242281




After some more research I'm thinking  "westfield" built Flying Merkel (because of the dropouts), correct me if I'm wrong but that would date it as post 1921. 
It also makes sense that the PO painted it white, according to the catalog FA1 double diamond frame was white with gold pinstriping (option black).


----------



## Cdollar4

White with gold pinstripe wow. Great color combo


----------



## redline1968

There two badges one decal and bottle cap hole. First doesn't yours because you have chain adjusters the second is not yours because you don't have the bottle cap hole and no chain adjusters.


----------



## bombollis

redline1968 said:


> There two badges one decal and bottle cap hole. First doesn't yours because you have chain adjusters the second is not yours because you don't have the bottle cap hole and no chain adjusters.




You lost me... What is a bottle cap?


----------



## Goldenindian

bombollis said:


> You lost me... What is a bottle cap?




The badge does not have screw holes. The back of the badge has a "bottle cap" looking attachment. 
Bicycles with this feature have one rather large hole for this bottle cap to fit into. The head tube will have one large hole, not two small screw hole.


----------



## redline1968

Goldenindian said:


> The badge does not have screw holes. The back of the badge has a "bottle cap" looking attachment.
> Bicycles with this feature have one rather large hole for this bottle cap to fit into. The head tube will have one large hole, not two small screw hole.



Couldn't  have said it any better my self.  Thanks hope you didn't pay much.


----------



## bombollis

So what year did they stop the decal badge?


----------



## bombollis

It was my understanding that not all FM had badges. Some bikes produced the same year had decals and some had badges (no real date to correspond with).
The tensioners on the dropouts seem to be when Westfield took over. But I've also seen Westfield built FM with no badges, regular screw hole badge, and bottle cap badge.

Mine is certainly a Westfield built frame with no badge holes. Did Westfield produce any brands other than FM without headbadges?


----------



## hoofhearted

bombollis said:


> So what year did they stop the decal badge?





*Bombollis ... looks like you've picked up a Miami-Built having 
infrequently-issued, rear-axel adjusters.

Now get into this thread, starting with the first entry.  It's loaded
with great information ... posted by members who have spent 
years digging thru literature vaults .. making copies of same ..
finally sorting thru to find some sort of sanity within all of it.

Then, a few of us made the decision to post the stuff.*

Personally, i never benefitted of the findings of others from 
the period of 1982 thru 1992 .. and it was a rare deal when
someone offered up printed knowledge (for free) 1993 thru 2003.

Whaaat ?   You haven't started digging yet ?  C'mon, now ........


....... patric


----------



## sm2501

hoofhearted said:


> HOLY CRAP ... have any of you *Sons of The Flying Merkel* ... (and you acquired that title by
> posting in this thread) .. have any of you gone back and re-read this whole thread .. which
> was initiated by Double Nickle on Oct. 22, 2013 ???
> 
> THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS Mind / Thought Expanding ... WOW-WEE-WOW-WOW !!!
> 
> 
> 
> At age sixty-six and a half .. it takes A LOT to thrill me ... it takes A LOT to make me happy ...
> but this thread has been makin' me slap-happy for some time now !!!
> 
> Look ... it's a bit premature to list each of you as a co-recipient in MY WILL ... but .. i do wanna
> say that each of you contributors has injected a lotta horsepower into This Thread ...... WOW !!!
> 
> Good Form !!!
> 
> ..........  patric cafaro




Hey Pat, at 68-1/2, are you still slap happy?


----------



## bombollis

hoofhearted said:


> *Bombollis ... looks like you've picked up a Miami-Built having
> infrequently-issued, rear-axel adjusters.
> 
> Now get into this thread, starting with the first entry.  It's loaded
> with great information ... posted by members who have spent
> years digging thru literature vaults .. making copies of same ..
> finally sorting thru to find some sort of sanity within all of it.
> 
> Then, a few of us made the decision to post the stuff.*
> 
> Personally, i never benefitted of the findings of others from
> the period of 1982 thru 1992 .. and it was a rare deal when
> someone offered up printed knowledge (for free) 1993 thru 2003.
> 
> Whaaat ?   You haven't started digging yet ?  C'mon, now ........
> 
> 
> ....... patric





Patric,

I just spent the last 2 hours reading every post in this thread (on my broken iPhone 5 screen no less!). Lots of priceless information on here.

If anybody has FM detailed frame construction photos (Bracing, Serial Numbers, Dropouts, Crimps, and Such)  please post!


----------



## hoofhearted

*Bombollis ... WOW ... You Caught the FIRE ......
and are now the latest member of S.O.T.F.M. !!

Welcome aboard ......*



....... patric


*For You - bombollis ......*


----------



## hoofhearted

sm2501 said:


> Hey Pat, at 68-1/2, are you still slap happy?





*Of Course i am, Big Daddy !!

An' i can still put the RAM in the Ramma Lamma Ding Dong ......*


............ patric


----------



## redline1968

Are you kidding me!  when did this arrive? Chain adjusters and badge holes?  I went through a lot of crap for this subject.  I posted my Miami and not one bit of this info came out. Why?
I don't get it. I see the chain adjusters...decal but a screw in badge?  Am I misinformed ? Westfield built? What? I don't get it?


----------



## hoofhearted

redline1968 said:


> Are you kidding me!  when did this arrive? Chain adjusters and badge holes?  I went through a lot of crap for this subject.  I posted my Miami and not one bit of this info came out. Why?
> I don't get it. I see the chain adjusters...decal but a screw in badge?  Am I misinformed ? Westfield built? What? I don't get it?













*Redline1968 ... am a bit cornfuzed ... where did this foto originate ?

Can you tell us more about how you acquired the foto ?

That specific archbar is a Miami-Built - having threaded, in-frame, axel adjusters.*


.......  patric


----------



## hoofhearted

*Posting a few Ethernet Fotos .... just for the good it'll do ya .....*


.........  patric






 *Said to be done in BLUE #7.*



 *Said to be done in BLUE #7.*



 *Said to be done in BLUE #7. *

*Bed NOT painted by same painter of 1912 F-M.*


----------



## hoofhearted

*ALL Ethernet Fotos .....*


....... patric


----------



## redline1968

hoofhearted said:


> View attachment 243119
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Redline1968 ... am a bit cornfuzed ... where did this foto originate ?
> 
> Can you tell us more about how you acquired the foto ?
> 
> That specific archbar is a Miami-Built - having threaded, in-frame, axel adjusters.*
> 
> Ha ...your just too funny. Still haven't answered my question? Westfield? screw in badges?
> Which is fake?


----------



## hoofhearted

> From hoofhearted .....
> 
> ''Redline1968 ... am a bit cornfuzed ... where did this foto originate ?
> Can you tell us more about how you acquired the foto ?
> That specific archbar is a Miami-Built - having threaded, in-frame, axel adjusters.''
> 
> ......... patric
> 
> 
> Quoting redline1968 --''Ha ...your just too funny. Still haven't answered my question? Westfield? screw in badges?
> Which is fake?''






*Redline1968 ... Most any Miami-Built could be a Westfield - after Westfield
purchased Miami in 1923 or 1924 (+/-).

Have seen several, Miami, non-screwhole badges that were re-used after '23 / '24 
by Westfield.  Some have had the Miami Cycle & Manuf. Co. identifier removed thru
abrasion (by Westfield) ... and each was drilled for screws (by Westfield).  

Cannot explain the F-M ''half badge''

Am posting an older foto of that F-M '' half badge".  Have never seen that particular
badge in person.

Also posting a Miami-Built, New England  bicycle owned by CABE Member, Ace.*

Have not seen any _fakes_ posted by you or me, regarding _these-recent_ images.


......... patric


----------



## redline1968

Thanks for your response. Mark


----------



## hoofhearted

redline1968 said:


> Thanks for your response. Mark





*Mark ... am glad to be able to be helpful.*


........ patric


----------



## Cdollar4

So that New England truss is a Miami Bicycle


----------



## hoofhearted

Cdollar4 said:


> So that New England truss is a Miami Bicycle






*Miami-Built it is.*



......... patric


----------



## hoofhearted

*POSTING these fotos for purpose of documentation.*


*CABE Member Frampton ... posted his very-tall frame
Miami-Bulldog, Savage, in the pre-1933 threads under 
the title, Savage.*



......... patric


----------



## hoofhearted

*POSTING this foto for purpose of documentation.*

*Very-tall, Miami-Built, Mead single rail, was purchased by
me from Dave Stromberger in late Summer, 2015.

Frame is designed to accept a chainring of up to 30-T Inch-Pitch
OR 60-T Half-Inch-Pitch.*

It Is Tall.


.......... patric


----------



## hoofhearted

*POSTING these fotos for purpose of documentation.


Miami-Built Forks (forged arch crown) of Same Design .......*



............ patric














*^^^......Foto via Nickinator...... ^^^*











* Just Above ...  Budget Bicycle Center ... and Just Below *









*^^^  FRAMPTON  ^^^*


----------



## bricycle

Anyone here own a Miami Flying Merkel Bicycle? 

..does anyone ever really own any classic bike? they are simply on loan until the next caretaker comes along.....


----------



## redline1968

I do.


----------



## catfish

I've got a few Flying Merkel badges.


----------



## Cdollar4

Awesome badge collection Catfish

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cdollar4

I just finish the entire thread. The knowledge you guys have is amazing. WOW. I WANT A MERKEL!!!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## catfish

Thanks!



Cdollar4 said:


> Awesome badge collection Catfish
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cdollar4

Hoofhearted can I get your email, I have some questions for you... thanks Colby

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## hoofhearted

Cdollar4 said:


> Hoofhearted can I get your email, I have some questions for you... thanks Colby






*Colby ... peep down in my signature area and tip 
the top of your screen away from you ......*


......... patric


----------



## oddball

Help me identify please, me thinks FM?

Cliff


----------



## oddball




----------



## oddball




----------



## Oldude13

*Merkel*

Built and sold this one
Thats as close as i get to owning one!


----------



## hoofhearted

oddball said:


> Help me identify please, me thinks FM?
> 
> Cliff





*Cliff ... go back and re-read entries #318 thru #341 of this thread.

Yours is a Flying Merkel ... as early as late-1919 (1920 model) ... 
AND .. as late as 1922.  I have no knowledge if the cataloged 
F-M 1923 models were ever built.*


......... patric


----------



## Goldenindian

I was waiting to see how that frame panned out. Good eye Patric, dropping knowledge as always!!... Congrats Cliff, good call on picking up that frame.


----------



## 1936Flyte

just like mine


----------



## Cdollar4

Anyone want one of my HORRIBLE merkel decals I have 3

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## fordsnake

hoofhearted said:


> *
> Yours is a Flying Merkel ... as early as late-1919 (1920 model) ...
> AND .. as late as 1922.  I have no knowledge if the cataloged
> F-M 1923 models were ever built. *




Patric, are you suggesting that the bikes in the 1923 Merkel catalog were never produced because of the Westfield acquisition?








If that’s the case…in the wake of the acquisition, wouldn’t it make sense for Westfield to deplete all existing inventory and rebadge existing frames before retooling? Therefore the Miami Motorbike frames were not proprietary or exclusive to just the Flying Merkel but also to other models?


----------



## barracuda

fordsnake said:


> Therefore the Miami Motorbike frames were not proprietary or exclusive to just the Flying Merkel but also to other models?




Beyond the lack of badge hole drillings between 1913 and 1917 or so, is there anything which distinguishes a bare Merkel frame from a corresponding Miami?


----------



## fordsnake

barracuda said:


> Beyond the lack of badge hole drillings between 1913 and 1917 or so, is there anything which distinguishes a bare Merkel frame from a corresponding Miami?



Are you referring to just the Motorbike frame?


----------



## barracuda

The later Merkel motorbike frames are distinguished by the "bottle cap" drill-out, isn't that right? Or are there other tells?

I would think the company must have produced 1923 models for sale, and I am doubtful that Westfield produced more than a few, if any, bicycles from Miami stock. 

August of 1923:





"...he has used the entire supply and inventory of the concern."


----------



## barracuda

November 21, 1923:





Walburg (Miami Cycle Co. Teasurer and receiver) sells to Boren who sells back to a Miami subsidiary. But by this time all bicycle stock has been used.


----------



## barracuda

November 23, 1923:


----------



## catfish

Cdollar4 said:


> Anyone want one of my HORRIBLE merkel decals I have 3
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk



Cool!


----------



## fordsnake

From everything I've seen and is documented in the Flying Merkel catalogs; the specification clearly mentions the Motorbike frame having an offset rear fork (more hanger metal on the drive side)!!!

In the absence of this unique design feature, its easy to assume you're viewing a common Miami marque motorbike frame and not an original early FM motorbike. Around 1921 FM featured the standard center hanger design.


----------



## fordsnake

Additionally, documented evidence clearly states the Flying Merkel Motorbike was offered as a 20” frame only – no optional size, this was up to 1918. 1919 models were limited…no motorbikes due to the government material restrictions of 1918-1919. Afterwards, between 1921-1923 the FM Motorbike was offered only in a 19” model!


----------



## redline1968

Nice info great reasearch.


----------



## hoofhearted

fordsnake said:


> Patric, are you suggesting that the bikes in the 1923 Merkel catalog were never produced because of the Westfield acquisition?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that’s the case…in the wake of the acquisition, wouldn’t it make sense for Westfield to deplete all existing inventory and rebadge existing frames before retooling? Therefore the Miami Motorbike frames were not proprietary or exclusive to just the Flying Merkel but also to other models?





*Carlton .. I am suggesting that Miami produced the 1923 model F-M sometime
in 1922 (as a '23 model).  But the production may have been cut short due to
the pending sale of Miami Manuf. Co. to Westfield .. perhaps begun in 1922.

Just my opinion.  





fordsnake said:



			If that’s the case…in the wake of the acquisition, wouldn’t it make sense for Westfield to deplete all existing inventory and rebadge existing frames before retooling? Therefore the Miami Motorbike frames were not proprietary or exclusive to just the Flying Merkel but also to other models?
		
Click to expand...




None of us really knows how many .. or which kinds of F-M frames Westfield
would acquire.

Certainly, any Miami-frame destined to become a F-M (by Miami) could become
any marque Westfield wanted it to become ... even the possibly-leftover frames
manufactured pre 1920 or '21.

Again, just my opinion.

But with the birth of the Miami, Center Drive Crank Hanger as applied to the
very-last outpourings of F-M bicycles (by Miami) .. and a possibly-limited but
appropriately-fitting chainring ... any use of the Center Drive frame by Westfield
... in hopes of using a badge differing from the Miami, F-M ... COULD have West-
field rebadging these frames to something other than F-M.

Just glad I didn't have to be a sales-rep in a retail-store ... having to explain  ......
''Why does this here, brand-new Hudson .. (or .. Miami .. Columbia .. Seminole ..
etc.) have an oversize front sprocket .. with all them ''F's'' in it ? 

..................  patric

*


----------



## redline1968

So this  arch bar bike is more than likely a Westfield built  post 1922.  And what year do you think is this double bar bike?


----------



## hoofhearted

barracuda said:


> Beyond the lack of badge hole drillings between 1913 and 1917 or so, is there anything which distinguishes a bare Merkel frame from a corresponding Miami?





*Barracuda ... Miami Cycle produced bicycles with variations in >>>>>

Please Note the list of variations found within
all marques built by Miami Cycle Co.

Head Tube Width ...    
(some racers had a head with narrower O.D.  ... observation.)

Frame Tube Construction ... 
(flush fit tubes .. trumpet-mouth fittings ..sleeved-lugs ... and Hercules Construction.)

Frame Tube Size         
(O.D. width variation.) ...

Fork Design ...

Crankcase Design ...  
(split ... undersize/split ... standard, one piece crank ..
and Center Drive on the late F-M machines.)

Seat Post ...                 
(pinch-bolt .. or expanding-bottom seat stem.)

Upper Seat Stays ...    
(either pinched-in above the fender bridge ... 
or semi-straight, dropping line for the duration of the seat stay.)

Fender Bridges ...       
(very stout ... some having both ends showing a trumpet-mouth fitting.)

Rear Axel Adjusters .. 
(some rear dropout plates have built-in {threaded} features ..
other dropout plates have no built-in feature.)

Lack Of Badge Screw Holes ... READ BELOW .....
* 
*A Flying Merkel bicycle .. model-year  between 1912 and
1917 ... will have no badge screw holes.  A decal was used.

Sometime in 1917 ... Miami introduced the metallic, F-M badge ... my opinion.

[These may have been placed on 1918 machines. (Sentence edited 
1-29-2016 @ 12:44 PM.)]
[having a ''bottlecap'' attachment feature.  No Screws Were Used.
(Last part added thru EDIT .. 1-29-2016 @ 12:08 AM.)]

However ... sometime after 1917 ... maybe going into '18 ... '19 ...
 '20 or '21 ... Miami-Built badges of the Racycle ... Hudson .. and 
Miami (having  a bottle-cap feature) ... have been observed as 
isolated relics, not attached to any particular frame.

Some of these bottle-cap badges were also found attached to a frame.

*
.......... patric
*
*


----------



## fordsnake

hoofhearted said:


> *Certainly, any Miami-frame destined to become a F-M (by Miami) could become
> any marque Westfield wanted it to become ... even the possibly-leftover frames
> manufactured pre 1920 or '21...................  patric *




No doubt...bikes that were marketed and cataloged for 1923 were produced in 1922!


----------



## fordsnake

hoofhearted said:


> Lack Of Badge Screw Holes ...
> A Flying Merkel bicycle .. model-year  between 1912 and
> Mid-1917 ... will have no badge screw holes.  A decal was used.
> *                                       During Mid-1917 ... Miami introduced the metallic, F-M badge *





Really Patric? I’m now confused…SCREW HOLES? I’ve never seen a FM badge with screw holes (plural). I think we’ve all seen this one bastardized badge


 
Its obvious it wasn’t factory produced...looking at the aesthetics and its design symmetry! The top's been butcher; sliced off and the bottom hole's drilled amateurish at best (not centered in the badge)!  

The earliest evidence we have of the metal badge was the 20's. But if you have evidence the metal badge was introduced in late 1917 then please shed your light on us with your proof…we would all appreciate it for our edification?


----------



## fordsnake

redline1968 said:


> What year do you think is this double bar bike?








1913???




Maybe you and Colby should compare notes?


----------



## barracuda

redline1968 said:


> And what year do you think is this double bar bike?View attachment 280903View attachment 280904




Here is a Miami Hudson (year unknown) based upon what appears to be an identical frame design. It was sold in the Rapoza auction here.


----------



## redline1968

Nice looks like that Miami took the merkel frame and stuck a Hudson badge on them also. Neat. Looking at the badge its later than my racer


----------



## fordsnake

Hudson was originally built by Bean – Chamberlain Mfg. Co (which owned the D&J cranks and hangers). Miami acquired Bean in late 1908, the reason why many of the early Miami's marques sport a D&J hanger!


----------



## redline1968

That's cool. Here is a pic of badges posted by catfish belonging to catfish. I noticed the holed merkel badge.  I wondered if it's real or a fake. It also looks different in the small descriptive area.above the lower hole.


----------



## fordsnake

redline1968 said:


> The holed merkel badge.  I wondered if it's real or a fake. It also looks different in the small descriptive area above the lower hole.




Hopefully Ed will chime in to give us clarity?


----------



## hoofhearted

^^


fordsnake said:


> Really Patric? I’m now confused…SCREW HOLES? I’ve never seen a FM badge with screw holes (plural). I think we’ve all seen this one bastardized badge
> 
> Its obvious it wasn’t factory produced...looking at the aesthetics and its design symmetry! The top's been butcher; sliced off and the bottom hole's drilled amateurish at best (not centered in the badge)!
> 
> *Carlton ... I never said F-M metallic badges had screw holes.*
> 
> The earliest evidence we have of the metal badge was the 20's. But if you have evidence the metal badge was introduced in late 1917 then please shed your light on us with your proof…we would all appreciate it for our edification?





*I maintain the late 1917 F-M's did have metallic badges.

Take a look at the Vaughn, early 1917 F-M.  As well as 
comparison ads for the 1917 and 1918 F-M.

If we understand that the parallel-doublebar F-M was
produced from 1912 thru 1916 (a 5-year production) ...
It may be easy for some of us to understand that when
an archaic, over-used frame style is found with a half-
inch hole in the headtube (no screw holes) -- the Company
may have wanted to rid itself of dinosaur-frames ... As The 
New, Drop-Top-Bar Motorbike Is Being Introduced.

Looks like the 60-T, Miami-Built ''Star'' chainring was also
antiquated by 1918.

This typer can not identify any Miami-Built badge ... ( having 
a bottlecap, attachment feature ) ... that was introduced earlier 
than the F-M metallic badge.

And to imagine my personal, B-Track Style (my conversion)
bicycle as being given a badge as late as the 1920's ... well,
that's a tough pill to swallow.

SEE THE LAST FOTO In This Run of Fotos ....

I am able to shed light, Carlton ... but offer little proof.


....................  patric


*





 

*^^^ The Vaughn F-M ^^^*




*


 









*




*

 

^^^^^^ Owner ... p. cafaro 2016   ^^^^^^*


----------



## fordsnake

Perhaps my confusion ls the word “metallic”; are you referring to the "Mercury Man" metallic ink decal or the metal "Flying Merkel" name badge?

 “Snowmass” Vaughn’s Motorbike is surely a 1917 model by all catalog referencing featuring the "Mercury Man" decal 




However I’m not sure how you determined the 1917 early or late production run, since the catalog does not refer to spring or fall models?


----------



## hoofhearted

fordsnake said:


> Perhaps my confusion ls the word “metallic”; are you referring to the "Mercury Man" metallic ink decal or the metal "Flying Merkel" name badge?
> 
> “Snowmass” Vaughn’s Motorbike is surely a 1917 model by all catalog referencing featuring the "Mercury Man" decal
> *
> 
> Am referring to the metallic, F-M name badge - not the F-M metallic decal.*
> 
> However I’m not sure how you determined the 1917 early or late production run, since the catalog does not refer to spring or fall models?





*Mid to late 1917 saw the production run of the 1918-models appear.

My beliefs (perhaps flawed) are given new perspective by your query.
The Vaughn F-M of 1917 is no longer considered (by me) to be ''early
1917''.   Will make future references to that machine as a ''1917''.

Regarding the F-M name badge ... my ''opinion'' of it being born in 1917 
(initially stated as ''late 1917'') ... is now modified, likewise.


*


----------



## catfish

redline1968 said:


> That's cool. Here is a pic of badges posted by catfish belonging to catfish. I noticed the holed merkel badge.  I wondered if it's real or a fake. It also looks different in the small descriptive area.above the lower hole.
> 
> View attachment 280972




Thanks for asking. All of these badges are real. The Merkel badge has holes because it was drilled to be put on a Westfield built bike after they bought out Miami.


----------



## redline1968

Dude your a god!  Great collection... You just set off a nuclear bomb on this discussion.. I thought it look too good to be a fake but you never know thanks for your response


----------



## catfish

redline1968 said:


> Dude your a god!  Great collection... You just set off a nuclear bomb on this discussion.. I thought it look too good to be a fake but you never know thanks for your response




Thanks.


----------



## fordsnake

FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND the production of the Miami Cycle Mfg. Co., or any other TOC bicycle manufacturer, I usually have to follow the breadcrumbs of documented evidence. So I’ll share my findings with you, if you disagree…its ok! You’re welcome to shoot holes in my findings with a friendly rebuttable...a healthy discourse often leads to successful results.

So with that said, lets begin with the social and economic landscape at the turn of the century.

*1901-1908;* Bicycles were taking a back seat to the proliferation of public interest in the nascent motorcycle and automobile industry. Young men especially were fascinated with these new machines that could offered unbridled exhilaration and personal freedom! Consequently, the bicycle manufacturers and jobbers were quickly gearing up for this new paradigm, via selling, consolidating, right sizing and merging their companies!

*1914 – 1918 * World War 1 occurred. The U.S. Government imposed mandates and restrictions on bicycle productions, limiting surplus waste and restricting metal consumption. Hence the stoppage of tooling and manufacturing unnecessary parts...tasking manufactureres to new challenges and to tactically pitch-in and assist in the war effort.

The Miami Cycle Mfg. Co., limited their production of their marques and contracted to produce thousands upon thousands of “Dutch Cleansers” (hand grenades) for the US government!






*Now here’s the "Ah Hah" moment…the gem that pieces the puzzle together. If The Miami Cycle Mfg. Co., was already compliant with using the Flying Merkel  decal on their head tubes…then why in the world would they defiantly thumb their nose up to US government and introduced a “metal badge” in 1917 in the mist of a war?*


----------



## fordsnake

Heres a 1918 Flying Merkel advertisement…it exhibits no display of a metal badge on the head tube!


----------



## fordsnake

This is a an ad for the 1919 models, announcing their compliance with the government's mandates.







Again, no metal badge on this 1919 Flying Merkel,  it appears to be a decal on the head tube!


----------



## fordsnake

The government's ban on the material and fabrication was finally lifted in late 1918. The Miami Cycle & Mfg. C., introduction of their 1919 models were warmed over 1918 models!  SO NOTHING NEW! Due to the late lift in the year and because manufacturers could not respond fast enough to produce new models to show to the trade…the annual Trade Show event was canceled and not held until late 1919!






*Which leads me to believe the “metallic badge” wasn’t introduced until late 1919 or early 1920?*


----------



## fordsnake

Just some interesting insights as to what occurred in the wake of the war and the government lifting its restrictions.


----------



## fordsnake

The early 20's were also an interesting time for The Miami Cycle & Mfg. Co. The company began selling inventory directly to the dealers, eliminating the middleman (the distributors) this was an unprecedented strategic move!


----------



## hoofhearted

fordsnake said:


> Heres a 1918 Flying Merkel advertisement…it exhibits no display of a metal badge on the head tube!



*

Carlton ... there is every possibility the above illustrations represent
a Flying Merkel ... or perhaps a Miami, which often used the Star chainring.

Am confused with the following ads .....
*

*

 




 



 *

*

 









 *


----------



## fordsnake

Confused? Yeah I know, I'm just following the bread crumbs (your previous submission #380). Remember Miami Cycles admitted their 1919 models were 1918 models…they didn't have the time to make changes due to the war restrictions.


----------



## chitown

Let's muddy these waters a bit more.

In December of 1917, this ad says 1918 models available in Olive Drab. Interesting points are the ad has 1/2" pitch chain so this image could have been re-used from 1916-17 originals because I think the Standardization Movement meant that most manufacturers were switching to the skip tooth chain and sprocket by 1918.





So then we come to this example posted by Patric in the Random Ads thread. Note the skip tooth and perhaps more important the badge. Questions on dating this would be "How long did Miami offer Olive Drab finish?" or "When did the switch to skip tooth chains occur exactly? ...and on was it for all models?"

Also a question for the badge brigade: Could this Olive Racycle have a bottle cap badge attachment or screws? This is the only pic of this bike I have seen and would love to see more. If so, 1918 could be a start of that feature.


----------



## hoofhearted

*


*


chitown said:


> Let's muddy these waters a bit more.
> 
> In December of 1917, this ad says 1918 models available in Olive Drab. Interesting points are the ad has 1/2" pitch chain so this image could have been re-used from 1916-17 originals because I think the Standardization Movement meant that most manufacturers were switching to the skip tooth chain and sprocket by 1918.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So then we come to this example posted by Patric in the Random Ads thread. Note the skip tooth and perhaps more important the badge. Questions on dating this would be "How long did Miami offer Olive Drab finish?" or "When did the switch to skip tooth chains occur exactly? ...and on was it for all models?"
> 
> Also a question for the badge brigade: Did Miami ever use a bottle cap badge for the Racycle line? If so could this Olive Racycle have such a badge? This is the only pic of this bike I have seen and would love to see more.








View attachment 281389 



*NOTE the Spencerian Font used in Racycle ....

........... patric*


----------



## catfish

As always! Great info! Thank you Brother Patric.


----------



## fordsnake

Don't you just love this…peeling back the layers and exchanging forensic information?  The bottle cap badge below was found here on the CABE and it was I.D. as a Canadian badge???  This is why its so important to do the homework and supply documented evidence and not conjectures.  So before I start stirring up the pot. I'm going to step off and investigate with more diligence as to the actual year of the FM badge vs the decal


----------



## Cdollar4

AWESOME

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## chitown

Looks like 1921 is when they went to flush joints.










So the Olive Drab bottlecap Racycle is either a 1918 or a 1920 imo. I'm leaning towards 1918. I can't find any evidence of olive drab being offered other than 1918. Also 1919 didn't even show a motobike model (due to implementation of war restrictions)
Still need some 1920 literature to put the nail in the coffin though.


----------



## fordsnake

A great find as always…yeah, it would be really cool if we could find a 1920 reference?  Reading the article above the paint color for the Flying Merkel mentions "drab with a blue head"…I always thought drab was a dull olive green color?  However the actual 1921 color catalog "drab" appears as the color "grey" … it makes sense and its still a nice color combo.


----------



## hoofhearted

fordsnake said:


> Don't you just love this…peeling back the layers and exchanging forensic information?  The bottle cap badge below was found here on the CABE and it was I.D. as a Canadian badge???  This is why its so important to do the homework and supply documented evidence and not conjectures.  So before I start stirring up the pot. I'm going to step off and investigate with more diligence as to the actual year of the FM badge vs the decal


----------



## hoofhearted

*Shown here is the 1921 Catalog page for the Flying Merkel Motorbike.

The color has been adjusted somewhat, to be as true as possible
(to my fading memory) to the catalog .. when the catalog was in my possession. 
*
......... patric

I believe Scott Mc. now owns this now.


----------



## fordsnake

chitown said:


> Racycle is either a 1918 or a 1920 imo. I'm leaning towards 1918. I can't find any evidence of olive drab being offered other than 1918. Also 1919 didn't even show a motobike model (due to implementation of war restrictions)
> Still need some 1920 literature to put the nail in the coffin though.




Yeah, you're right, Miami introduced the "olive drab" paint in their 1918 lineup for all models! The olive painted Racycle (Chitown featured) above is the missing link for me to connect the dots...I'll share my findings later.


----------



## chitown

*1915-16 Badges!!!*

*Flying Merkel still a decal!*

*

 *


----------



## catfish

Ouch!    I saw a guy destroy a Yale bottle cap badge once like this at a show. He thought he would just pull it off..... Eneded up with a big hole in the badge.  



fordsnake said:


> Don't you just love this…peeling back the layers and exchanging forensic information?  The bottle cap badge below was found here on the CABE and it was I.D. as a Canadian badge???  This is why its so important to do the homework and supply documented evidence and not conjectures.  So before I start stirring up the pot. I'm going to step off and investigate with more diligence as to the actual year of the FM badge vs the decal


----------



## chitown

*NO DOUBLE BAR OR ARCH BAR FOR 1917 MODELS!? *

"All these machines have a single top bar that embody the exclusive Hercules Four-Ply construction... The construction does away with the use of arch bars or double top tubes to reinforce the frame." _sept 14 1916 Motor Cycle Illustrated_

This directly contradicts the 1917 flying merkel catalog postings earlier in this thread. Could this be due to the war and the quickly changing market and pressures on the company? Was Miami on the leading edge of implementing the war restrictions? Most other companies didn't fully do away with double bars until late 1918 literature when all the lines announce compliance for the upcoming 1919 season. Could the Olive Drab been part of a small run anticipating building bikes for the war? 

They did bid on the Army contract for bicycles:


----------



## fordsnake

Thanks Chris (Chitown). This is another huge discovery.

A reminder that when we speak of bicycle manufacturers between 1916 -1919 we must not forget to include the relevance of WorldWarI.



In the wake of the Government's restrictions to reduce steel production...all of the bicycle manufacturers were strongly affected and had to rethink their game plan?

You can't sell something you don't have…I speculate the 1917 Spring Season catalogues were indeed printed, but instead were shelved until the 1917 Fall Season?  This often occurs in the marketing arena. The product and advertising departments must co-exist and work in tandem. If a product is not ready to go to market, the release of the marketing materials are delayed and the salesforce are asked to step up their game and do a tap dance to soften the sting of products "NA" to distributors and dealers!

The introduction of the "Olive Drab" inventory is an interesting theory Chitown and likely occur as you suspect. The article reveals that The Miami Cycle Mfg. Co. presented the government the lowest bid in Oct. 1917. And lets us not forget Miami was already producing hand grenades for the government which was impeding on their existing bicycle production! The following year the War ends with the armistice of 1918! The Government lifts its restrictions and Miami offers the public "Olive Drab "painted bikes on its entire 1918 line! That's an amazing coincidence  you can't ignore?


----------



## Cdollar4

HUB CYCLE COMPANY
I recently obtained a lot of old purchase orders I thought would share with you fine folks.











 Blue and White COOL

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## Cdollar4

Adding a few more!!!!


This one is cool, FLYING MERKEL TRUSS
        ON MY B-DAY April 20, 1918




And this one was ordered MINE

20"Merkel blue and white Double Bar and a 22" DB





Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Cdollar4

Sorry no clue why they flipped, I'm sorry for that

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## Nickinator

Those are very cool. On the first one, dated Apr 24, 1918, it lists Flying Merkel Bicycle *D.B. *22" *'17*, am I correct in assuming that's *Double Bar*, and a *1917*?
Darcie


----------



## Cdollar4

Yes it is Darcie.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Cdollar4

I would like to have A truss frame Merkel, the PO for that one was was bought on the 20th April which is my b-day

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Nickinator

Cdollar4 said:


> Yes it is Darcie.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk




The best thing about those receipts, they are proof of what was actually made, vs the various ads and articles that were published. Assuming they were written up correctly, but looks like they were fairly detailed.
Darcie


----------



## Cdollar4

Nickinator said:


> The best thing about those receipts, they are proof of what was actually made, vs the various ads and articles that were published. Assuming they were written up correctly, but looks like they were fairly detailed.
> Darcie



I'm really happy I was able to obtain, these little pieces of history Darcie. And yes you are right [emoji3] 

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----------



## barracuda

fordsnake said:


> It seems the Merkle's color was yellow before they landed on orange...or maybe this reporter was color blinded from snorting too much exhaust fumes at the motorcycle race track?




Here's a 1910 ad, parenthetically referring to the Merkel nickname:





And here's Merkel's most accomplished racer, Maldwyn Jones, photographed in Mansfield, Ohio, in 1913 and still wearing on his jersey what I suspect was the unofficial "mascot" of the Merkel non-team, the bumblebee insignia:





(Notice the similarity of the rear fender to Patric's unusual bike featured on the first page of this thread.)

_"Maldwyn Jones was another member of that group of turn-of-the-century boys whose lives revolved around motorcycles. Like Jim Davis who won a pair of rubber goggles and Otto Walker who brought home a turkey, Maldwyn never forgot his first prize: a .22 caliber repeating rifle which he won at an Ohio county fair in 1909. Jones continued to compete in amateur events, and in 1911 (when he was 20 years-old) he went to work for the motorcycle manufacturer Joseph Merkel, whose plant was just a few miles down the road from Maldwyn's hometown of Lebanon, Ohio.

At the time, Merkel did not have a factory team, but after Jones demonstrated an aptitude for winning races, Merkel gave his tacit approval for Maldwyn to work on racing machinery during working hours at the plant. Still, the Merkel company did not have a full-fledged race department or even a team, just Jones and a few others employed by the company, who rode either antiquated Merkel racing equipment (left over from as far back as 1905) or mostly stock examples of the road-going Flying Merkel that the company sold to the public.

Maldwyn was both resourceful and mechanically gifted.  In 1913, he adapted an over-head valve head from a Jefferson motorcycle to fit the Merkel cylinder and went racing on the 1/2-mile dirt tracks on which he was most adept.  Maldwyn's luck was not great in the longer races, however.  In 1913, an erroneous lap count deprived him of a win at the Savanna 300-mile road race, and in 1914, he was again in the lead at Savannah when his locally-hired pit crew allowed him to run out of gas at the far side of the track."_​_
http://www.statnekov.com/motorcycles/lives21.html_


----------



## oddball

A friend of mine took this pic, just one item that will probably be for sale in the near future, could it be a Merkel with that sprocket?


----------



## frankster41

1911 Twin boardtrack racer sold at the Las Vegas Mecum auction last March
$435,000 including buyers premium. It is in the J&P Cycles museum in Anamosa IA. The 1915 bicycle went for $10,000


----------



## catfish

oddball said:


> A friend of mine took this pic, just one item that will probably be for sale in the near future, could it be a Merkel with that sprocket?View attachment 284801




Nice! Would love to see more photos of these.


----------



## fordsnake

The "Star" Chainring wasn't proprietary to the Merkel…but used on several marques.

Example: three Miami Motorbikes but only one's a Merkel.


----------



## Cdollar4

I think your right Carlton! The frames look a bit different, are they?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## Nickinator

picture 1 and 2 are the same bikes.



fordsnake said:


> The "Star" Chainring wasn't proprietary to the Merkel…but used on several marques.
> 
> Example: three Miami Motorbikes but only one's a Merkel.


----------



## fordsnake

Cdollar4 said:


> I think your right Carlton! The frames look a bit different, are they?



Yes there are differences.


Nickinator said:


> picture 1 and 2 are the same bikes.



No, they appear to be the same bikes but they're different...picture 1 is a Miami "Star"







Picture 2 is a Miami "Miami"


----------



## Nickinator

fordsnake said:


> Yes there are differences.
> 
> No, they appear to be the same bikes but they're different...picture 1 is a Miami "Star"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picture 2 is a Miami "Miami"




I own/ed those two. I have pics of the frames side by side, believe that pic is posted in this thread....many posts ago....The other Merkel bike is Vaughn's, and I brought the frame that is shown in the 2nd pic, (on the bench) to Memory Lane 2014 and Patric, Vaughn and I compared them, they appear to be the same. That one is stamped '17. The Star one believe is a later frame '20 or '21. Pics sometimes appear different than in person.
Nick


----------



## barracuda

A few somewhat random images of Flying Merkel racers...

1914, Maldwyn Jones on the left, Cleo Pineau, center:





1913, Maldwyn Jones:



 

1914, Cleo Pineau:





_"Cleo Pineau was the son of Thomas L. and Adele Gstalder Pineau. He was a restless youth, and dropped out of school in sixth grade. He was a motorcycle racer before World War I. He raced Flying Merkel and Indian Motorcycles, once defeating Barney Oldfield. He also rode in the "Globe of Death" motordrome as a vaudeville performer.

He joined the Royal Flying Corps in December 1917, and trained at the Curtis Aviation School in Buffalo, New York. He was assigned to 210 Squadron on 2 June 1918. Between 6 September and 8 October 1918, he used a Sopwith Camel to destroy four Fokker D.VIIs and drive down two others. Following his sixth win, he was shot down by a Fokker Triplane near Roulers and fell into captivity as a prisoner of war.

Pineau went back to motorcycle racing in the 1920s, winning many world motordrome records. Pineau did not leave aviation behind. He was instrumental in founding the Williamsport-Lycoming County Airport, and fostered it through his connections in the aviation community, including a friendship with Wiley Post.

He began the Radiant Steel company in 1927 or 1928, as a spinoff from Darling Valve and Manufacturing Company. By 1948, he was its president; he served in this capacity until he retired in 1969. He died in 1972."_​
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleo_Francis_Pineau


----------



## American Vintage Bicycle Supply

Found this original ad today has some flying Merkel info. For sale if anyone is interested. 















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## barracuda

Two things about that nice ad:

- a great big *what the heck* on those awesome handlebars in the big pic? and,

- "Crimson Flyer"?? That's a new one. Anybody ever seen a badge?

Miami marques I know of:

Miami
Rami
Elco
Latonia
Star
Standard
Hudson
Flying Merkel
Racycle
and now Crimson Flyer.

Am I missing any?


----------



## American Vintage Bicycle Supply

barracuda said:


> Two things about that nice ad:
> 
> - a great big *what the heck* on those awesome handlebars in the big pic? and,
> 
> - "Crimson Flyer"?? That's a new one. Anybody ever seen a badge?
> 
> Miami marques I know of:
> 
> Miami
> Rami
> Elco
> Latonia
> Star
> Standard
> Hudson
> Flying Merkel
> Racycle
> and now Crimson Flyer.
> 
> Am I missing any?



Seller was asking $50 for the ad. Not sure if it was worth picking up or not. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bricycle

barracuda said:


> Two things about that nice ad:
> 
> - a great big *what the heck* on those awesome handlebars in the big pic? and,
> 
> - "Crimson Flyer"?? That's a new one. Anybody ever seen a badge?
> 
> Miami marques I know of:
> 
> Miami
> Rami
> Elco
> Latonia
> Star
> Standard
> Hudson
> Flying Merkel
> Racycle
> and now Crimson Flyer.
> 
> Am I missing any?



 Yes, Miami Sun I bought one but the seller never shipped


----------



## olderthandirt

i would like to place an order for two bikes in the 20 inch frame size are you able to take paypal ? what will be the shipping charges ? reply with the total 90.00 plus shipping ? i eagerly await delivery ! kindest regards


----------



## bombollis

fordsnake said:


> The Flying Merkel continues in the wake of the Westfield purchase of the Miami Cycle Mfg. Co.




I'm looking for details on this badge.
Does anybody know hole spacing? Or possibly have one for sale? 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Freqman1

American Vintage Bicycle Supply said:


> Found this original ad today has some flying Merkel info. For sale if anyone is interested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Did you happen to notice the what the year of this ad was? Say they have been making bicycles for over 22 years? V/r Shawn


----------



## American Vintage Bicycle Supply

Freqman1 said:


> Did you happen to notice the what the year of this ad was? Say they have been making bicycles for over 22 years? V/r Shawn




I didn't notice. I'll look tomorrow 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## barracuda

Freqman1 said:


> Did you happen to notice the what the year of this ad was? Say they have been making bicycles for over 22 years? V/r Shawn




That would be from 1916.


----------



## Freqman1

barracuda said:


> That would be from 1916.




So according to the history I have read the Miami Mfr Co. first started producing bicycles in 1895 which would make this at least a '17 model wouldn't it? V/r Shawn


----------



## barracuda

Freqman1 said:


> So according to the history I have read the Miami Mfr Co. first started producing bicycles in 1895 which would make this at least a '17 model wouldn't it? V/r Shawn




It's Christmas of 1916, so it's kind of a gimme. They're advertising their newest models for sale at the end of the year, so yes, likely what we would call 1917 models.

And while I'm here, how about a shot of a badass 1907 Merkel Light, just for kicks?


----------



## Freqman1

barracuda said:


> Two things about that nice ad:
> 
> - a great big *what the heck* on those awesome handlebars in the big pic? and,
> 
> - "Crimson Flyer"?? That's a new one. Anybody ever seen a badge?
> 
> Miami marques I know of:
> 
> Miami
> Rami
> Elco
> Latonia
> Star
> Standard
> Hudson
> Flying Merkel
> Racycle
> and now Crimson Flyer.
> 
> Am I missing any?





What about the private brands--Arrow, Black Beauty?, New England, Mead  V/r Shawn


----------



## Freqman1

As many of you reading this know I recently purchased Dave S. Flying Merkel. After reading through all 28 pages of this thread numerous times I have come to the conclusion the bike is likely a 1920 model. Now that I have a dog in the fight I have a serious interest in these bicycles and am working on arranging the material presented in this thread into an article to be posted here on the CABE.

Unfortunately some of the material (mostly pictures) in this thread have been removed by the poster for whatever reason. It seems catalogs are also lacking for the Miami built bikes. I see mostly ads for the various years or pages from a catalog but not the entire catalog. I would gladly pay for decent copies of any complete Miami/Merkel catalogs.

So here are some initial random thoughts/questions for the Sons of the Flying Merkel to ponder;
1.  1912 was the first year for the Flying Merkel. I say this because Miami buys Light about June 1911 and starts moving operations from Pottstown, PA to Middleton, OH. I think it is possible that they started production in late '11 for the '12 model year but likely very early '12.

2. 1923 was the last year for the Flying Merkel bicycle. This thread has the '23 catalog and it appears these bikes were built and sold before the sale to Westfield in 1923.

3. Chainrings: 1912-16 clover leaf design in both 1/2" and 1" pitch in about three different varieties. 1917-1919 star 60 tooth 1/2" pitch ring, and 1920-23 circle of "F"s ring.

4. Head badge: 1912-1917 decal, 1918-23 bottle cap steel badge? really need to see good 1917-19 catalogs to help sort this out.

5. Frame identification--most consistent feature seems to be thick fender bridges.

6. Identifying a Merkel--seems to me only a 1912-17 Miami frame without badge holes would be a for sure Merkel.

7. When did the down tube decal go away? 1918? 1919? 1920?

8. Even though 1913 literature shows down tube decals on the side I've yet to see any examples of real bikes decaled as such. I have noticed this with the Racycle literature as well and think maybe for the sake of illustrative purposes the catalogs depicted the decals on the side of the tubes but production models only had them on the top side of the down tube?

9. Models--it appears that all Miami frames could be had as a Flying Merkel?

10. 1918-19 no motorbike frames? I notice that the conversation in the thread centers on 1919 as not having offered any motorbike frames due to the war. If so I would think no 1918 motorbike as well. Frankly the literature presented doesn't convince me that motorbike frames were not offered in 1919.

Like I said food for thought and I welcome all comments--but especially documentation that positively answers the questions! V/r Shawn


----------



## barracuda

Freqman1 said:


> 1.  1912 was the first year for the Flying Merkel. I say this because Miami buys Light about June 1911 and starts moving operations from Pottstown, PA to Middleton, OH. I think it is possible that they started production in late '11 for the '12 model year but likely very early '12.




I'm gonna posit that the first Flying Merkel bicycles were sold in April-May of 1912. Here is an ad for Miami products from March of '12:





So, they are selling various Racycles, a Miami-badged model, a Ramie, as well as Flying Merkel motorcycles... but no Merkel bikes.

A month later, ads begin to appear in the record for Flying Merkel bicycles.

April of 1912, San Bernadino, CA:





Marion OH, May 1912:





That San Berdoo ad may be for motorcycles, but the Marion ad is definitely bikes.




Freqman1 said:


> 2. 1923 was the last year for the Flying Merkel bicycle. This thread has the '23 catalog and it appears these bikes were built and sold before the sale to Westfield in 1923.




Check out the documentation in the Latonia thread for definitive information on the demise of Miami Cycle Mfg. Co.



Freqman1 said:


> 3. Chainrings: 1912-16 clover leaf design in both 1/2" and 1" pitch in about three different varieties. 1917-1919 star 60 tooth 1/2" pitch ring, and 1920-23 circle of "F"s ring.




If you check the '23 catalog you'll notice Merkels equipped with a "sweetheart" ring:





...and I think they used a "five spoke" ring like this:





The "five spoke" goes back at least to 1919:







Freqman1 said:


> 8. Even though 1913 literature shows down tube decals on the side I've yet to see any examples of real bikes decaled as such. I have noticed this with the Racycle literature as well and think maybe for the sake of illustrative purposes the catalogs depicted the decals on the side of the tubes but production models only had them on the top side of the down tube?




It seems the positioning of the down tube decals is inconsistent at best. The one on my bike is sort of in a three-quarters position, with the swash underscore directly positioned on the center of the side of the tube.


----------



## barracuda

Freqman1 said:


> 7. When did the down tube decal go away? 1918? 1919? 1920?




I suspect the down tube decal went away once the paint got a little more fancy, with darts projecting out from the head tube. Just guessing, though.


----------



## catfish




----------



## catfish

Westfield also owned Miami, and Flying Merkel.


----------



## Freqman1

I'm concentrating strictly on the Miami made bicycles. To me these are like the Angola Pierce'--close but no cookie! V/r Shawn


----------



## Freqman1

So Barracuda and I are collaborating on writing the Flying Merkel monograph and have already got a rough outline for our approach. A picture is worth a thousand words and we need some pics to help us out. I have gleaned all of the pics from this thread that I could but still need good quality pics of complete, original Flying Merkel bicycles as well as individual components such as varieties of spring forks, rear drop outs, grips, bars, pedals, racks, the back side of a bottle cap badge, wheels, split bottom bracket, and fenders. Anything else that you might feel is useful or interesting either about the bikes or history to include catalog images or contemporary ads/articles. You can post here or send directly to my email at Oldbikeguy1@hotmail.com  Thanks, Shawn


----------



## 2jakes

HISTORY - The Flyingmerkel

Perhaps they can provide you information or photos for your project.
 Good Luck.


----------



## Freqman1

I think Robert (Barracuda) has a good handle on the history part. What we really need are good quality pics of bikes and parts so we can show readers what right looks like in regards to the Flying Merkel bicycle. I'm almost tempted to pack my camera and hop on the 'ol Road King to make a bonsai run to Fairborn, OH to a known Merkel sanctuary to get the shots I need! V/r Shawn


----------



## hoofhearted

Freqman1 said:


> I think Robert (Barracuda) has a good handle on the history part. What we really need are good quality pics of bikes and parts so we can show readers what right looks like in regards to the Flying Merkel bicycle. I'm almost tempted to pack my camera and hop on the 'ol Road King to make a bonsai run to Fairborn, OH to a known Merkel sanctuary to get the shots I need! V/r Shawn





*Hey* *Big* *Daddy* *... Am very happy you and Robert are taking-on
a much needed historical, reference document regarding the 
Flying Merkel.

Feel free to use any of my contributions within this thread ...
and, as Fairborn cools down .. I will take some clear snaps
of that 1912 F-M.

Thank you for taking on this huge task ......

........ patric






 

Aunt Bee ? ... well .... not really ............*


----------



## bricycle

barracuda said:


> View attachment 335543
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gonna posit that the first Flying Merkel bicycles were sold in April-May of 1912. Here is an ad for Miami products from March of '12:
> 
> View attachment 335542
> 
> So, they are selling various Racycles, a Miami-badged model, a Ramie, as well as Flying Merkel motorcycles... but no Merkel bikes.
> 
> A month later, ads begin to appear in the record for Flying Merkel bicycles.
> 
> April of 1912, San Bernadino, CA:
> 
> View attachment 335544
> 
> Marion OH, May 1912:
> 
> View attachment 335545
> 
> That San Berdoo ad may be for motorcycles, but the Marion ad is definitely bikes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check out the documentation in the Latonia thread for definitive information on the demise of Miami Cycle Mfg. Co.
> 
> 
> 
> If you check the '23 catalog you'll notice Merkels equipped with a "sweetheart" ring:
> 
> View attachment 335553
> 
> ...and I think they used a "five spoke" ring like this:
> 
> View attachment 335551
> 
> The "five spoke" goes back at least to 1919:
> 
> View attachment 335552
> 
> 
> 
> It seems the positioning of the down tube decals is inconsistent at best. The one on my bike is sort of in a three-quarters position, with the swash underscore directly positioned on the center of the side of the tube.




...where the term "JOY RIDER" came from???


----------



## 2jakes




----------



## Freqman1

2jakes said:


>





See post #20 of this thread--I need fresh stuff! V/r Shawn


----------



## 47jchiggins

catfish said:


> I've got a few Flying Merkel badges. View attachment 251246



Are the bottle cap badges a heavier gauge than the standard lightweight tin?

Todd


----------



## sm2501

Freqman1 said:


> I think Robert (Barracuda) has a good handle on the history part. What we really need are good quality pics of bikes and parts so we can show readers what right looks like in regards to the Flying Merkel bicycle. I'm almost tempted to pack my camera and hop on the 'ol Road King to make a bonsai run to Fairborn, OH to a known Merkel sanctuary to get the shots I need! V/r Shawn


----------



## catfish

47jchiggins said:


> Are the bottle cap badges a heavier gauge than the standard lightweight tin?
> 
> Todd




They are heavier.


----------



## Blue Streak

Flying Merkels at the National Motorcycle Museum in Anamosa, Iowa. Very nice museum. Well worth the drive.


----------



## Freqman1

Blue Streak said:


> Flying Merkels at the National Motorcycle Museum in Anamosa, Iowa. Very nice museum. Well worth the drive.
> 
> View attachment 404341
> 
> View attachment 404342




Did you get any better pics of the bicycles? V/r Shawn


----------



## Blue Streak

Shawn - That is the only photo I have of the Flying Merkel bicycles.


----------



## TBUCK59

I just aquired this 1913 20" Flying Merkel on a trade for a Sharps rifle. I have also purchased the American Boy 1913 November issue that shows the bike. Also if anyone has any other pics or advertisement on this model please let me know. 


 

 

 

 Head tube old repop. Thanks Tim


----------



## Freqman1

TBUCK59 said:


> I just aquired this 1913 20" Flying Merkel on a trade for a Sharps rifle. I have also purchased the American Boy 1913 November issue that shows the bike. Also if anyone has any other pics or advertisement on this model please let me know. View attachment 404433 View attachment 404435 View attachment 404436 View attachment 404438 Head tube old repop. Thanks Tim



Thanks for posting here Tim. Just curious if this is an original paint bike or an older repaint? V/r Shawn


----------



## TBUCK59

Freqman1 said:


> Thanks for posting here Tim. Just curious if this is an original paint bike or an older repaint? V/r Shawn




Older repaint


----------



## TBUCK59

TBUCK59 said:


> Older repaint




Found a couple of Merkel pics


----------



## ace

Anyone know what bike this would have been on? Thanks!


----------



## hoofhearted

*

Ace ... thank you for posting ...

First, let's do some conversions ......

An 11-Tooth, inch-pitch driven-gear is equivalent 
to a 22-Tooth, half-inch pitch driven-gear.

If the reader agrees so far ... continue to read.

If the reader disagrees ... nothing else will matter to
you in this article.  Walk on.

Using my 1915 Flying Merkel catalog as a reference,
PAGE 12 ... the top o' the line F-M double-parallel-bar 
motorbike of '15 ... The Flying Merkel Scout - Model 400 ... 
comes equipped with a 60-T .. half-inch pitch STAR chainring.

The cataloged rear gear options on the Model 400 are 
as follows ... 18-T ... 20-T or 22-T.  

Ace ... that 22-T is your 11-T, inch-pitch rear gear.


TAKE A BREAK THEN RETURN FOR MORE .......


PAGE 14 of the 1915 F-M catalog shows a single-bar bicycle ... 
The Flying Merkel - Light Roadster - Model 402.

This machine .. the Model 402 ... comes equipped with a
30-T ... one-inch-pitch STAR chainring.  This chainring
has the same diameter as the 60-T half-inch-pitch Miami,
STAR chainring.

The cataloged rear gear options on the model 402 are
as follows ... 10-T ... 11-T or 12-T.


TAKE A BREAK THEN RETURN FOR MORE .........


PAGE 16 of the 1915 F-M catalog shows another F-M 
double-parallel-bar motorbike ...  The Flying Merkel Special -  
Model 404 .

The Model 404 Flying Merkel Special does not come with 
a truss-rod-fork ... but rather the typical Miami-Built arch-
crown, drop-forged variety used on many of the bicycles
built by Miami Cycle.

This machine (Model 404) comes equipped with a 26-T ..
one-inch pitch four-leaf clover chainring ... having a very
dominating solid-steel circle, surrounding the crank, axel
hole.  This particular chainring is made of unobtainium.

The cataloged rear gear options on the Model 404 F-M 
are as follows ...... 9-T and 10-T.


.......... patric




 

Miami-Built .. 26-T .. waaay difficult to find ..
used on 1915 double-parallel-bar FLYING MERKEL SPECIAL .. Model 404.

ETHERNET FOTO


MODERATORS ... 

If at all possible ... I request that this entire thread initiated by CABE member, Ace ... be transferred and added to the ''Anyone Here Own A Miami Flying Merkel Bicycle ?'' thread.  I will not be reposting any information already typed here ... there are better than seven-hours of my time in the research and reporting of information just in Entry 2 of this thread. 

THANK YOU.


*


----------



## hoofhearted

*MODERATORS ... 

If at all possible ... I request that this entire thread initiated by CABE member, Ace ... be transferred and added to the ''Anyone Here Own A Miami Flying Merkel Bicycle ?'' thread.  I will not be reposting any information already typed here ... there are better than seven-hours of my time in the research and reporting of information just in Entry 2 of this thread. 

THANK YOU.
===========================================
Thank you - Scott (rustjunkie) for relocating
the Ace-initiated post to the Flying Merkel thread.

You are very-much appreciated !!

...... patric*


----------



## partsguy

hoofhearted said:


> *Hey* *Big* *Daddy* *... Am very happy you and Robert are taking-on
> a much needed historical, reference document regarding the
> Flying Merkel.
> 
> Feel free to use any of my contributions within this thread ...
> and, as Fairborn cools down .. I will take some clear snaps
> of that 1912 F-M.
> 
> Thank you for taking on this huge task ......
> 
> ........ patric
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 353189
> 
> Aunt Bee ? ... well .... not really ............*




I don't know about a Flying Merkel, but Aunt Bee did insist on always driving a Studebaker.


----------



## Freqman1

ace said:


> Anyone know what bike this would have been on? Thanks!View attachment 407420 View attachment 407421 View attachment 407422 View attachment 407423





This same 11T cog is on the back end of my machine. My bike has the 28T "F" chain ring. V/r Shawn


----------



## hoofhearted

*Here's that unusual 26-T Miami chainring, again.

I say ''unusual'' ... because it is just so plain-looking
compared to other Miami-Built rings.  This ring
design is my fave of all the ring-designs that rolled
outta Miami Cycle & Mfg. Co.*

*These were made as 26-T ... 28-T ... and 30-T.

Very possible, also as a 22-T and 24-T for juvi 
and girl's machines.

Bottom fotos are late-teen's Racycle in olive-
green.  Peep that 26-T chainring.

....... patric*


----------



## Freqman1

redline1968 said:


> That's cool. Here is a pic of badges posted by catfish belonging to catfish. I noticed the holed merkel badge.  I wondered if it's real or a fake. It also looks different in the small descriptive area.above the lower hole.
> 
> View attachment 280972




Ed,
    Can you post a pic of the back of the Flying Merkel badge without the screw holes? Thanks, Shawn


----------



## catfish

Freqman1 said:


> Ed,
> Can you post a pic of the back of the Flying Merkel badge without the screw holes? Thanks, Shawn




I'll see if I have that photo. I'm away from home right now.....


----------



## Freqman1

Ok I've been hitting it hard in trying to get the Merkel article together. The subject of chain rings seems to be a fairly large/complex subject. Below is a list of the rings I think were used for the Flying Merkel from 1912-1923.

Solid center clover leaf 26T
Solid center cloverleaf 28T
Cut out Cloverleaf 28T
Cut out Cloverleaf 30T
Cut out Cloverleaf 48T
Cut out Cloverleaf 60T
Star 30T
Star 60T
Five spoke 28?T
Five Spoke 60T
Circle of "F"s 28T (center drive)
Sweetheart 28T?

Other questions:
From the thread it says 1917 was the last year for the 60T Star chain ring yet some say the 1/2 drive stops in 1916 for the Merkel?
Were any chain rings besides the Circle of "F"s on a 'center drive' crank (offset bottom bracket)
Were any of these chain rings tied to specific models?

V/r Shawn


----------



## Freqman1

Pics I could use for article-should be nice, clear pics without shadows or other stuff!:
Regular bottom bracket when viewed with bike upside down
handlebars
grips
pedals
stems
deep and regular fenders
Vitalic tires
Any original, complete bicycles besides those already shown in the thread

Thanks, Shawn


----------



## catfish

Freqman1 said:


> Pics I could use for article-should be nice, clear pics without shadows or other stuff!:
> Thanks, Shawn




I'll bring all the badges to Memory Lane. You have a better camera than I do. And you can take the photos you want.   Catfish


----------



## Freqman1

catfish said:


> I'll bring all the badges to Memory Lane. You have a better camera than I do. And you can take the photos you want.   Catfish



Thanks--see ya there!


----------



## catfish

I also have these. I'll bring them too. I think I have a few Flying Merkel catalogs too, but I haven't cataloged my paper collection yet.... That's in the works.   Catfish


----------



## hoofhearted

Freqman1 said:


> Ok I've been hitting it hard in trying to get the Merkel article together. The subject of chain rings seems to be a fairly large/complex subject. Below is a list of the rings I think were used for the Flying Merkel from 1912-1923.
> *Right up front ... need to indicate the ring on
> my 1912 F-M is not a Miami-Built.  It appears
> to be a period, replacement item from a no-name
> manufacturer.  Am in the process of switching
> it out for a solid-center clover leaf w/30T.*
> Solid center clover leaf 26T
> Solid center cloverleaf 28T
> *A solid-center clover leaf w/30T is in my possession.*
> ===========================================
> *Is this what you mean by ''cut out'', Shawn ?
> 
> *
> 
> *A cut out clover of 22T ... (juvi) ... and a
> cut out clover of 24T ... (teen's racer) are
> in my possession.
> *
> Cut out Cloverleaf 28T
> Cut out Cloverleaf 30T
> Cut out Cloverleaf 48T
> Cut out Cloverleaf 60T
> *A cut out clover of 80T is in my possession.
> *
> ===========================================
> 
> *We must not leave out the ''D&J Crank Hanger'' .. see below ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> ===========================================
> 
> Star 30T
> Star 60T
> Five spoke 28?T
> Five Spoke 60T
> Circle of "F"s 28T (center drive)
> Sweetheart 28T?
> 
> Other questions:
> From the thread it says 1917 was the last year for the 60T Star chain ring yet some say the 1/2 drive stops in 1916 for the Merkel?
> Were any chain rings besides the Circle of "F"s on a 'center drive' crank (offset bottom bracket)
> Were any of these chain rings tied to specific models?
> 
> V/r Shawn


----------



## Freqman1

Thanks for the input Patric. As usual the deeper we dig the more questions that arise. Here's one; I've seen ads regarding the 'improved' D&J hanger in some ads from 1915 but in others the ad says Miami is making their own hanger (likely from a D&J patent). If you look at the lit for the 1915 bicycle it no longer mentions D&J. Thoughts? V/r Shawn


----------



## Freqman1

Freqman1 said:


> Thanks for the input Patric. As usual the deeper we dig the more questions that arise. Here's one; I've seen ads regarding the 'improved' D&J hanger in some ads from 1915 but in others the ad says Miami is making their own hanger (likely from a D&J patent). If you look at the lit for the 1915 bicycle it no longer mentions D&J. Thoughts? V/r Shawn





I'll answer my own question now that I have more literature. It appears Miami used D&J hangers until 1915 when they started producing their own crank hangers under the D&J patent. Later they produced their own proprietary cranks and hangers. V/r Shawn


----------



## Freqman1

catfish said:


> I also have these. I'll bring them too. I think I have a few Flying Merkel catalogs too, but I haven't cataloged my paper collection yet.... That's in the works.   CatfishView attachment 413638 View attachment 413639View attachment 413638 View attachment 413640





Thanks Ed these pics help. BTW if anyone has either a set of these white Vitalics or a set of balloon tire Vitalics (black wall) I would be interested in purchase. V/r Shawn


----------



## hoofhearted

*Big Mistake On My Part .....

In Entry 584 of this thread .. Shawn indicates a lot
of information about chainrings used on the F-M
... noting a bunch of variety.

Well done, I say, Shawn.

But now ... the Fit Hits The Shan.

I responded to Shawn ... happened to be in Entry 589.

Trouble is ... I did not respond to Shawn in an acceptable
way ... that is, I responded in a way that certainly does not
invite reading by those interested.

Rather than quote what Shawn wrote ... and replying below
the quote .......... I quoted Shawn -- then, typed my responses 
right in there -- among Shawn's quote.   

Entry 589, of this thread, shows my final product ... 
but surely this is not a good way to invite readers to
read my responses to Shawn.

At this time, I ask any and all interested readers to go back to
Entry 589 ... punch Click to expand .... and check out the visuals
I have included.

Thank you for your consideration ....

....... patric*


----------



## barracuda

Freqman1 said:


> Pics I could use for article-should be nice, clear pics without shadows or other stuff!:
> Regular bottom bracket when viewed with bike upside down
> handlebars
> grips
> pedals
> stems
> deep and regular fenders
> Vitalic tires
> Any original, complete bicycles besides those already shown in the thread
> 
> Thanks, Shawn




I have some of those things, Shawn - I'll try and dig them out for pics.

Regarding the chainring issue, I've noticed one consistent aspect of every 1-piece crank Miami/Merkel ring I've had the pleasure to hold, and that is a center to center measurement of 2 inches between the crank hole and the drive pin hole. This measurement makes the Miami cranks and rings generally proprietary, as I have yet to find another manufacturer using this distance. Though I welcome correction on this detail, should anyone have differing information!


----------



## Freqman1

Ok so after more than a few hours looking at all the catalogs and this thread here is where I'm at on the FM chain rings. Keep in mind some of these chain rings may be found on other Miami products in different years. I have not seen any ads showing the 1912 FMs but the 1912 Racycle cat shows the sweetheart rings for the juvenile models so an assumption on my part is that the earliest FM juveniles most likely used this ring as well. Dates followed by a question mark are my best guess and any evidence to support or refute these dates is welcomed. This goes for any other rings/tooth counts/drives that you feel are in error. Ok SOTFM did you just hear a bell ring?

Solid center clover leaf (1” pitch) 26T, 28T (1912?-1916)
Cut out Cloverleaf (1” pitch) 24T (1920-1923 Racer center drive), 28T, 30T (1916-1917)
Cut out Cloverleaf (1/2” pitch) 48T, 60T (1912?-1916)
Star (1” pitch) 30T (1914?-1917)
Star (1/2” pitch) 60T (1914?-1917)
Five spoke (1/2” pitch) 60T (1918-1919)
Circle of "F"s 28T (center drive) (1920-1923)
Sweetheart 22T (Juvenile 1912-1922), 24T, 26T (1914?-1923)


*Five spoke ½” pitch 26T not used on FM




 
Solid Center Cloverleaf



 
Cutout Cloverleaf



 
Star 



 
Five Spoke




Circle of "F"s



 
Sweetheart


----------



## fordsnake

Shawn…I just stopped by to see how things are going? Note you're missing the D&J chainring in your list. It's featured and mentioned in the 1913 Spokane Cycle Supply Catalog. I referenced it several times in this post as well as documented it in my D&J post. It looks somewhat like the "Clover" chainring but different and it takes the proprierty D&J hanger. I think I posted a photo of it on my FM somewhere on here?

Have fun…I'm in Brazil until the end of April.


----------



## Freqman1

fordsnake said:


> Shawn…I just stopped by to see how things are going? Note you're missing the D&J chainring in your list. It's featured and mentioned in the 1913 Spokane Cycle Supply Catalog. I referenced it several times in this post as well as documented it in my D&J post. It looks somewhat like the "Clover" chainring but different and it takes the proprierty D&J hanger. I think I posted a photo of it on my FM somewhere on here?
> 
> Have fun…I'm in Brazil until the end of April.




Hey Carlton glad to hear from you again! Hopefully you can stop in more as I try to nail down this article. I thought that ring was the 'cut out cloverleaf'?  V/r Shawn


----------



## fordsnake

Shawn…no worries. From the little images that have been shared it’s hard to discern the FM’s chainring particulars. Fortunately I was able to pick up a 1913 Spokane Cycle Supply catalog. There's only one page dedicated to the FM double bar. Attached are scans of that page. Note the listing for Cranks and Sprocket. Also the hand grips were Rough Riders same as the Indians.




When enlarged you can clearly see the unique D&J ½" pitch, plus notice the FM decal on the bottom tube it's placed on the side of the tube.







The only thing holding me back from completing my FM is finding that elusive 16T rear sprocket. If anyone has one for sale…I'll buy it!





Another unique feature of FM frames (post the D&J hanger) is the offset bottom bracket.


----------



## tripple3

fordsnake said:


> The only thing holding me back from completing my FM is finding that elusive 16T rear sprocket. If anyone has one for sale…I'll buy it!



Get 1 or 2 made... @John @hoofhearted may have 1 with more or less teeth for thread match??


----------



## Freqman1

Carlton,
     Thanks for the pic of the chain ring. I would think that ring was used from 1912-1914. The reason I say this is if you look at the '15 cat it mentions a new hanger made under the D&J patent but obviously different from the hanger you show. Interestingly the '15 catalog also says that spring fork is exclusive to the top model --404 I think which is the same frame as the Miami Bulldog (curved seat post). Going off the top-of-my-head here so I'll edit tonight if needed. It does not list this fork as an option on any other model nor does it allude to its availability as an a la carte item.

I'll post the exact language later of the catalog talking about non-standard configurations but it is confusing--at least to me.

Regarding the offset hangers; earlier in this thread it is postulated that these were motorbike only. I disagree with this because I believe the "center drive" was introduced in 1920 on all models except the ladies and juvenile models which used the standard crank and sweetheart rings. I believe only two chain rings used with the center drive were the circle of "F"s and the 24T sweetheart on the Racer model.

So the obvious question here is were any other Miami machines equipped with the center drive hangers? If so a bare frame with a  bottle cap opening would not necessarily indicate a FM.

V/r Shawn


----------



## hoofhearted

*Be careful in the identification of those ''cloverleaf cutout'' patterns.

Look closely at each of the following chainrings ... all from Miami Cycle & Manuf. Co.

Are they the same, regarding the ''cutout area'' ?

......... patric






 







*


----------



## Freqman1

hoofhearted said:


> *Be careful in the identification of those ''cloverleaf cutout'' patterns.
> 
> Look closely at each of the following chainrings ... all from Miami Cycle & Manuf. Co.
> 
> Are they the same, regarding the ''cutout area'' ?
> 
> ......... patric
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 416657
> 
> 
> View attachment 416658
> 
> 
> *
> View attachment 416660
> 
> 
> View attachment 416661




Patric I have noticed some differences in these rings. Even though they may all be Miami rings we need to determine which ones (ring and tooth count) were actually used on the Flying Merkel. V/r Shawn


----------



## hoofhearted

*
Let's clarify what ring is what ring.

Below is a variation-Hudson ring ...
and right below this first foto is the
Miami-Hudson machine with Miami
Cycle & Manuf. Co. badge

NOTE ... This ring may be what I call 
a variation ... in that the piercings (cut-
outs) are not narrow ... and almost look 
like they are morphing into actual Miami /
F-M rings featured in the 1915 .. 1916 .. 
and 1917 F-M catalogs. 



 




 








Here we have the slim-pierced (cutout) ring used on the Hudson .. from Miami Cycle.



 



 

*













*

Now we come to the FLYING MERKEL cutout ring ... 
shown in vignette in the 1915 .. 1916 .. and 1917 F-M catalog.  
The very-first .. here .. is a vignette from the 1916 F-M catalog.



 


You must commit information in the following pics ... to your memory ...  if you ever expect a successful-gathering in the field.





 



 



 



 



 



*


----------



## Freqman1

Dat be good stuff brother Patric. I show the 1" pitch ring as being used by FM in 28 and 30 tooth but not 26. Also 24T but as a center drive ring which would look different due to the way it mounts. Also would this same pattern used for the 1/2" pitch ring? V/r Shawn


----------



## hoofhearted

Freqman1 said:


> Dat be good stuff brother Patric. I show the 1" pitch ring as being used by FM in 28 and 30 tooth but not 26. Also 24T but as a center drive ring which would look different due to the way it mounts. Also would this same pattern used for the 1/2" pitch ring? V/r Shawn







*
Say boys and girls ... old Andy here ... 
them Flying Merkels  are bunches of fun 
if you can find them. You need to be a 
straight-shooter and pay attention or the
possibility of you finding a part .. or maybe 
even the whole bicycle --- may get dashed in the dirt.






The Sons Of The Flying Merkel need to consider something ... just 
because Miami Cycle put a foto of a particular model in a catalog .. 
or piece of advertising ... doesn't mean the actual machine sold to
a rider matched the literature.  Consider this ....



 




 




 


USE OF SOLID CENTER CHAINRING In 1915 ... Miami Cycle on the Flying Merkel


1915 .. Model 403 ... F-M Princess 24T
1915 .. Model 407 ... F-M Ladies Roadster 24T

1915 .. Model 404 ... F-M Special 26T ... (but appears 28T) This is the double, parallel-bar motorbike.
1915 .. Model 406 ... F-M  Roadster 26T
1915 .. No Racer Listed in 1915 ... the Racer was issued with 24T ring ... even the ''center drive'' from the 1920's.
ALL SOLID-CENTER CLOVER LEAF ..................  ALL ONE-INCH PITCH



1912
Ideally .. we need to begin at 1912 .. figuring the largest inch-pitch
ring .. that has a solid center.  There has been no literature available
for this machine.  The ring that is placed in my 1912 F-M right now
is not the correct ring for the machine.  The ring has alien origins ...
definitely not Miami Cycle.

Stopping for today .


*


 
*
Wrong ring on my 1912.  Ring is not a Miami 
Cycle & Manuf. Co. item.  Replacing this ring 
with a solid-center 30T ring.*
*

*


----------



## Freqman1

Had some FM patches made....


----------



## TBUCK59

Patches are awesome can't wait to display them with my bike.


----------



## Freqman1

Found this pic on the interwebs. What strikes me about this motorcycle is the head tube transfer? Is this the Light Motor Co. transfer? V/r Shawn


----------



## barracuda

Freqman1 said:


> Is this the Light Motor Co. transfer?




Yep.


----------



## catfish




----------



## redline1968

Patric.....I  think the chain ring is correct My Miami and has your exact chain ring.


----------



## hoofhearted

*
Redline1968 ... it's a close call ... 

Look closely at how the centralized cutout 
terminates in the chainring on your Miami.

Your Miami has a FLAT feature in the central-
ized area.  I believe this is a Miami feature.

Thank you - redline1968 !!

...... patric

This is a closeup of my 1912 F-M ring ....




 

*


----------



## oldwhizzer

Hudson


----------



## Goldenindian

O my goodness!! Thanks for sharing it!! that is a beautiful machine!!!


----------



## redline1968

hoofhearted said:


> *Redline1968 ... it's a close call ...
> 
> Look closely at how the centralized cutout
> terminates in the chainring on your Miami.
> 
> Your Miami has a FLAT feature in the central-
> ized area.  I believe this is a Miami feature.
> 
> Thank you - redline1968 !!
> 
> ...... patric
> 
> This is a closeup of my 1912 F-M ring ....
> 
> 
> View attachment 439712
> *





 I see... yours looks like it has a mushroom type cut out.. like this I think is super close.


----------



## TBUCK59

oldwhizzer said:


> HudsonView attachment 439767 View attachment 439770




Older whizzer is you Hudson for sale Thanks Tim


----------



## redline1968

TBUCK59 said:


> Older whizzer is you Hudson for sale Thanks Tim



I don't blame you for asking that's one fine bike.   I'd want it too that's a beauty I'd go nicely my Hudson track...


----------



## zephyrblau

spent parts of the last 3 days plowing through this inspiring thread. I've yet to see a more in depth exploration in all of my hobbies on any forum. 
gents... take a bow. 
oh...nice eye candy too


----------



## hoofhearted

zephyrblau said:


> spent parts of the last 3 days plowing through this inspiring thread. I've yet to see a more in depth exploration in all of my hobbies on any forum.
> gents... take a bow.
> oh...nice eye candy too




*Zephyrblau ... on behalf of each and every contributor
to this thread ... we appreciate your very-kind words.

The Special Offer (below) is for YOU !!

....... patric*


----------



## Clark58mx

I picked up this Arrow Archbar bike over the weekend.


----------



## Freqman1

There should probably be a thread for other Miami bikes. While they have the same DNA they aren't Flying Merkels! V/r Shawn


----------



## zephyrblau

committing this image to a somewhat feeble memory ...


----------



## zephyrblau

allowed me to score one...thanks AGAIN Patric


----------



## Freqman1

hoofhearted said:


> *Note differences in Chainring Design.*
> 
> 
> View attachment 158559
> 
> View attachment 158560
> 
> View attachment 158561
> 
> View attachment 158562
> 
> 
> =================
> =================



Trying to finish up the FM monograph. I am of the opinion that the Five Spoke ring (26T 1" or 60T 1/2") was NOT used on any FM bikes. The only place you see this ring is 1918/19 and not on any bike _labeled as a FM. _Anyone have evidence to the contrary? V/r Shawn


----------



## hoofhearted

Freqman1 said:


> Trying to finish up the FM monograph. I am of the opinion that the Five Spoke ring (26T 1" or 60T 1/2") was NOT used on any FM bikes. The only place you see this ring is 1918/19 and not on any bike _labeled as a FM. _Anyone have evidence to the contrary? V/r Shawn





*The use of the 5-spoke 60T, 1/2'' pitch goes back to 
1915 with the Miami Bulldog.  The fotos below show
three different rings used on the same model for
1915.

The same ring was first used in 1918/1919 with the 
F-M ... as per the advertising pages you include with 
your statement.

I know of no FM catalogs from those years ... and am
unable to support my statement.

Both Carlton and I believe that ring was used in '18 and
'19 ... possibly into very early 1920 ... on the F-M.

*















*This 1915, all original Miami Tallframe Bulldog 
is no longer in my stable.  It resides elsewhere where it can continue to be loved.
The new owner made me an offer I could not refuse.*


----------



## Freqman1

Patric the problem I have with the 1918/1919 literature shown in the thread is that the bike both you and Carlton refer to as a 1918 is simply labeled "Motorbike" unlike some of the other illustrations that call out the brand e.g. Flying Merkel. I see this ring in none of the FM catalogs. Not saying it didn't happen just don't see any evidence of it. If we make this leap then _any_ chain ring used by Miami could be fair game for a FM. V/r Shawn


----------



## hoofhearted

Freqman1 said:


> Patric the problem I have with the 1918/1919 literature shown in the thread is that the bike both you and Carlton refer to as a 1918 is simply labeled "Motorbike" unlike some of the other illustrations that call out the brand e.g. Flying Merkel. I see this ring in none of the FM catalogs. Not saying it didn't happen just don't see any evidence of it. If we make this leap then _any_ chain ring used by Miami could be fair game for a FM. V/r Shawn





*Shawn ... thank you for your clarification.

Totally see your point, and am agreeing with you.
Out of respect to the reader, need to add that I
added words (they show up in RED) to those same
ads.

Am at a loss for words .. but only temporarily.

Don't know if an accurate truth will ever be revealed,
in any catalog .. advertising .. or illustration provided
by Miami Cycle in 1918 and 1919 --- but am keenly-
aware that the knowledge we have (now) .. did not exist
for us, not that long ago.

I continue to walk having hope that more information 
will be revealed to us -- and I remind myself that much 
more research is indicated.* 

*....... patric*


----------



## Freqman1

Patric I agree that until we see the 'missing link' catalogs, literature, or bikes there will be many gaps and unknowns. I'm getting close to a final draft and have been dedicating a couple of hours each night to this endeavor. The one thing I am missing is a picture of a 60T "cloverleaf cutout" chain ring. I am not talking the D&J ring with the four attaching bolts (shown below)




but a 60T 1/2" pitch ring like this




Does one exist or is the D&J the only 60T "cloverleaf cutout" ring? V/r Shawn


----------



## hoofhearted

Freqman1 said:


> Patric I agree that until we see the 'missing link' catalogs, literature, or bikes there will be many gaps and unknowns. I'm getting close to a final draft and have been dedicating a couple of hours each night to this endeavor. The one thing I am missing is a picture of a 60T "cloverleaf cutout" chain ring. I am not talking the D&J ring with the four attaching bolts (shown below)
> View attachment 481656
> 
> but a 60T 1/2" pitch ring like this
> View attachment 481657
> 
> Does one exist or is the D&J the only 60T "cloverleaf cutout" ring? V/r Shawn




*Shawn ... I don't believe a 60T, ''cloverleaf cutout'' was ever available.
That ''cloverleaf cutout'' ring has been presented by Miami Cycle as
a 1''-inch pitch only.  Could be wrong .....

Tooth count would be 22T ... 24T ... 26T and 28T.  

...... patric







*


----------



## Freqman1

Thanks Patric--that's the conclusion I was reaching--I think I just heard the bell ring! Be looking for this to come your way soon.... V/r Shawn


----------



## redline1968

Freqman1 said:


> There should probably be a thread for other Miami bikes. While they have the same DNA they aren't Flying Merkels! V/r Shawn




Yes...Separate the riff from the raff.. it's the only way for world order....


----------



## Freqman1

Not trying to be a Richard but for the last year I've been dissecting and analyzing nearly every word in this thread to produce a monograph on Flying Merkels. When people veer off topic it only ads to the clutter and makes it difficult for people searching info related to the topic. Unfortunately this has ruined some good threads on the forum to which people quit contributing. V/r Shawn


----------



## redline1968

Quite right


----------



## Dave Stromberger

Having re-read this thread again, and again, and ag... absorbing all the info... I see that a bike posted by @redline1968 and commented on by @hoofhearted (CLICK HERE) has all the same frame build characteristics as my double-bar "New Falcon" that was suspected, but not confirmed to be Miami built (CLICK HERE). If we assume that the crankset (that doesn't even fit correctly!) and fork/headset are not original, this frame matches the construction of the bike owned and posted by @redline1968.  Can we safely call this "New Falcon" a Miami built bike?


----------



## redline1968

Not that I'm anywhere proficient in this area.(freqman seems to know more) but the fender arches are thicker on the Miami frame. Yours looks like the cups are too large for the frame.  I'd say it's quite possible the fork has been replace or the cups have been.  The patina looks the same on the fork. I'd look at the inside to see if there is color and see if it matchs.


----------



## Wcben

hoofhearted said:


> *Shawn ... I don't believe a 60T, ''cloverleaf cutout'' was ever available.
> That ''cloverleaf cutout'' ring has been presented by Miami Cycle as
> a 1''-inch pitch only.  Could be wrong .....
> 
> Tooth count would be 22T ... 24T ... 26T and 28T.
> 
> ...... patric
> 
> 
> View attachment 481676
> 
> *




The "rideabout" from the early teens had a big 1/2" cloverleaf chainwheel....


----------



## Freqman1

Wcben said:


> The "rideabout" from the early teens had a big 1/2" cloverleaf chainwheel....
> View attachment 647208 View attachment 647209 View attachment 647210




Yep but it ain't a Flying Merkel! I am concentrating solely on the Flying Merkel bicycles and how they were equipped. V/r Shawn


----------



## Freqman1

Interesting article discussing colors on the race motorcycles and a race in Savannah, GA. V/r Shawn

http://archivemoto.com/thearchive/2...-and-cleo-pineau-savannah-ga-december-27-1913


----------



## barracuda

Freqman1 said:


> Interesting article discussing colors on the race motorcycles and a race in Savannah, GA. V/r Shawn
> 
> http://archivemoto.com/thearchive/2...-and-cleo-pineau-savannah-ga-december-27-1913




More information on the Yellow Jackets here:

American Motorcyclist - Jan 1975, page 12


----------



## barracuda

Find a Grave obituary for Joseph Frederic Merkel

Birth:  Mar. 7, 1872
Manistee
Manistee County
Michigan, USA 

Death:  Jul. 5, 1958
Rochester
Monroe County
New York, USA 




Son of George Merkel & Mary Magdalen nee Huenekens

Rochester (NY) Democrat and Chronicle, Mon. July 7, 1958, p. 16:1. 
Joseph F. Merkel Mass Tomorrow; Cycle Inventor, 86. 

Requiem mass for Joseph F. Merkel, 86, of 1222 Genesee Park Blvd., a retired mechanical engineer and the inventor of a motorcycle and a motorbicycle, will be celebrated at 9 a.m. tomorrow in Our Lady of Good Counsel Church. Mr. Merkel, who retired from General Railway Signal Co. nine years ago after 35 years with the firm, died of stroke in St. Mary's Hospital Saturday, July 5, 1958. He designed and manufactured the Merkel Motorcycle in Milwaukee before coming here 41 years ago. In Rochester he patented and built the Evans Cycle Motor. The company was in Cady Street. Mr. Merkel also was a designer for the Ever Ready Corp. on Long Island for several years before joining the GRS engineering staff. He was a native of Manistee MI. Mr. Merkel was a life member of the Rochester Council of the Knights of St. John and a member of the Fourth Degree Assembly of the organization. He is survived by two daughters, Sr. Marie Margaret of the Sisters of St. Joseph, a teacher in St. Francis de Sales High School in Geneva, and Mrs. Elsie McIntyre of Rochester; a son, Richard L. Merkel of Houston TX, a public relations director for the Trans-Texas Airways. The prayer service will be held at 8:30 a.m. in the Joseph A. Murphy Funeral Home, 363 Chili Ave. Burial will be in Holy Sepulchre Cemetery.

MERKEL-Joseph F. Merkel, 1222 Genesee Park Blvd., entered into rest Sat. July 5, 1958 He is survived by two daughters, Sr. Marie Margaret, Sisters of St. Joseph, DeSales High School, Geneva NY, and Mrs. Elsie McIntyre, Rochester; one son, Richard L. Merkel, Houston TX. He was a member of Rochester Council #178 Knights of Columbus, and the Fourth Degree Assembly.

Joseph Merkel
INDUCTED: 1998 AMA Motorcycle Hall of Fame
Founder of Merkel Motorcycles, engineer

Joseph Merkel was the founder of Merkel Motorcycles, manufacturer of machines better known as the "Flying Merkel." The Flying Merkel was one of the leading racing and road machines of the 1910s, earning numerous victories in a variety of contests of the day. Joseph Merkel was considered to be one of the finest engineers in U.S. motorcycling. He came up with dozens of innovative designs, many of which were copied by other motorcycle makers.   Merkel was born in Manistee, Michigan, in 1872. His father was employed in the logging industry and like many boys of his era, young Joseph went to work at a young age. He worked as an engineer on a logging railroad in 1886 when he was just 14 years old. At 15 Merkel went to work at a machine shop and learned the particulars of making machined parts that were light and durable. The practical mechanical experience gained in machining gave him a desire to learn more. He enrolled at Michigan Agricultural College (now Michigan State University) to study mechanical engineering.   In 1897, Merkel accepted a draftsman position at E.P. Allis Co. (later to become Allis-Chalmers Co.) in Milwaukee. 

By the turn of the century, Merkel had opened his own business that manufactured bicycle parts. By 1901, Merkel was attaching small motors to bicycles and the Merkel Motorcycle was born. A motor-powered tricycle Merkel had built in 1900 was thought to be one of the first self-propelled vehicles built in Wisconsin.   Merkel didn't stop at motorcycles. In 1906, his company built 150 automobiles featuring a powerful 30-horsepower engine.   In 1908, Merkel merged his company with the Light Motor Co. and the new Merkel-Light Motor Co. moved activities to Pottstown, Pennsylvania.   Flying Merkels were known for having one of the finest rides in all of motorcycling and also as one of the most reliable motorcycles on the road. Merkels were more costly than many motorcycles of the time, but Merkel engines utilized the best German-made bearings and other high-quality materials, which led to excellent reliability.   Merkel also helped design a unique front and rear suspension system on his motorcycles. The rear suspension was a mono-shock design that proved to be decades ahead of its time. Yamaha would later make a similar single rear shock design popular again on racing machines of the 1970s and beyond. Even more impressive than the rear suspension was the front fork of the Flying Merkels. The fork was so good (telescopic in principle, using dual coil springs, yet looking like an unsprung trussed fork) that many other manufacturers put Merkel forks on their factory racing machines even through the 1920s, years after Merkel had ceased production.   Riders such as board track stars Morty Graves and Fred Whittler, and dirt track racers like Maldwyn Jones and Cleo Pineau, brought fame to the Flying Merkel through racing. Merkel rarely got directly involved in the racing end of his company, leaving that to other employees, but he attended many of races. With few exceptions, Merkel did not field full-fledged factory racing teams, but the company did pay many Merkel racers' expenses through its sales division. 

  Early in 1911, Miami Cycle and Mfg. Co. purchased Merkel-Light and transferred all operations to its Middletown, Ohio headquarters. Merkel came along with his company in the purchase. Merkel stayed with the company he founded until 1914 when he sold his interest in the company. Merkel went on to design and patent the Merkel Motor Wheel, which was later manufactured by Indian Motocycle Co.   By the 1920s, Merkel had moved to Rochester, New York, to take over experimental design for the Cyclemotor Corp. Merkel earned a lot of praise from the motorcycling industry in the early 1920s when he convinced the New York legislature to assess lower highway fees on motorcycles since they caused much less wear and tear to the road than automobiles.   The Flying Merkel continued on without Merkel at the helm until just before the onset of World War I. After the war, Miami Cycle Mfg., like dozens of other American manufacturers, did not return to the motorcycle business. The Flying Merkel was relegated to the history books.   Little is known about Merkel after his stint with Cyclemotor in the early 1920s. He was an avid golfer and secretary of the Genesee Golf Club near Rochester. He was also a prominent booster in the Knights of Columbus and was involved in many charities.  


Family links: 
 Spouse:
Mary Katherine Odenbrett Merkel (1875 - 1924)*

 Children:
Elizabeth Maria Merkel McIntyre (1907 - 1994)*
Mary Margaret Merkel (1912 - 2004)*
Richard Lawrence Merkel (1930 - 1987)*

Burial:
Holy Sepulchre Cemetery 
Rochester
Monroe County
New York, USA 

Created by: Michael J. Petrie
Record added: Jan 04, 2012 
Find A Grave Memorial# 82934111


----------



## barracuda

From Hatfield, Jerry - Antique American Motorcycle Buyer’s Guide, 1996, Motorbooks International

http://www.abebooks.com/book-search/isbn/0760301735/

The Minneapolis Journal
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Wed, Apr 1, 1903:







The Minneapolis Journal
Minneapolis, Minnesota
Wed, Aug 19, 1903:


----------



## barracuda




----------



## barracuda

1908, Merkel Motor Company joined with the Light Motor Company and moved to Pottstown Pennsylvania -

Reading Times
Reading, Pennsylvania
Fri, Oct 16, 1908:







First mention of the "Flying Merkel"? -

The San Francisco Call
San Francisco, California
Monday, August , 1909:


----------



## barracuda

Comparison of the circa 1910 Merkel Light and Racycle motorcycles:


----------



## barracuda

Merkel and Miami both exhibit at the New York Automobile Show, January 1910:






July, 1911:


----------



## Freqman1

I finally finished this! https://thecabe.com/forum/pages/the_flying_merkel_bicycle/  V/r Shawn


----------



## ejlwheels

is this a 26T miami ring?


----------



## Freqman1

ejlwheels said:


> is this a 26T miami ring?
> View attachment 690654



I do not think so. The triangles are too sharp and top of clover leafs are too round. V/r Shawn


----------



## ejlwheels




----------



## Freqman1

I stand corrected--I was thinking FM. There are a few Miami rings that weren't used on the FMs. I'm sure Patric will weigh in on this one. V/r Shawn


----------



## hoofhearted

Freqman1 said:


> I stand corrected--I was thinking FM. There are a few Miami rings that weren't used on the FMs. I'm sure Patric will weigh in on this one. V/r Shawn





*26-T ... four-circle, clover-leaf .....*





*
Same ring on a later, non-screwhole badge Racycle .....


 *


----------



## hoofhearted

ejlwheels said:


> is this a 26T miami ring?
> View attachment 690654




*Yes it is ... also used on some but not all F-M's.

..... patric*


----------



## bentwoody66

Freqman1 said:


> Had some FM patches made....
> 
> View attachment 424441 View attachment 424442 View attachment 424443



Do you have to be a Merkel owner to acquire a patch?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Freqman1

bentwoody66 said:


> Do you have to be a Merkel owner to acquire a patch?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



Nope--$5.50 post paid to lower 48.  First patch is free if you own one and send me pics of the bike and serial number. V/r Shawn


----------



## bentwoody66

Freqman1 said:


> Nope--$5.50 post paid to lower 48.  First patch is free if you own one and send me pics of the bike and serial number. V/r Shawn
> View attachment 711588



Don't own one, just started on a Racycle. Got a long way to go, but I'll buy a patch. Paypal F2F o.k.?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## filmonger

1903 model improvment - Merkel fork


















Another mention for the improved fork 1903








Another plug for the 1903 fork


----------



## Jesse McCauley

I don't want to clog up an otherwise impressive devoted thread, but I do want to drop this here in hopes that one of you FM owners appreciates the period rubber as much as I do. 

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/w...k-tread-single-tube-tires.122322/#post-817092


----------



## hoofhearted

*


 



*


----------



## hoofhearted

*OF  COURSE  MIAMI  CYCLE  BUILT  CUSTOM  ONE - OFFS ... 
Why would anyone believe otherwise ?*


----------



## Freqman1

Good info Patric. I would love to see the nugget that answers the head badge question definitively though. V/r Shawn


----------



## Goldenindian




----------



## barracuda

Archiving this 1917 Merkel Motor Wheel from the Mecum thread here:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/mecum-motorcycle-auction-in-vegas.124578/

and more pictures at the the Mecum website:

https://www.mecum.com/lots/LV0118-315199/1917-merkel-motorwheel/









Is that a Westfield tank under the top bar? Wonder what that's for? Just looks, maybe...

Those are some interesting lugs for a Merkel. And an unusual fork for late Miami.
So many questions. Like, "what kinda bike is that?"


----------



## redline1968

It looks like a original 1890’s orange painted bike with a new Merkel decal badge and did anyone notice the exhaust pipe is on backwards?


----------



## hoofhearted

redline1968 said:


> It looks like a original 1890’s orange painted bike with a new Merkel decal badge and did anyone notice the exhaust pipe is on backwards?




*Great catch on the pipe ......*


----------



## hoofhearted

barracuda said:


> Is that a Westfield tank under the top bar? Wonder what that's for? Just looks, maybe...
> 
> Those are some interesting lugs for a Merkel. And an unusual fork for late Miami.
> So many questions. Like, "what kinda bike is that?"




*Excellent Detective work, Robert !!
*
..... patric


----------



## hoofhearted

*These are two, different ads ...*


----------



## redline1968

Why is this being ignored?  Some one payed 48k for it.....I can’t stand looking at this p.o.s and saying it’s a flying Merkel.. this goes against logic.. the more I look the worse it gets.  These no nothing that come close to a Merkel on this bike except the motor/decal and even that is a mess.  Why is this acceptable? I thought this site was a informative process am I wrong?


----------



## hoofhearted

redline1968 said:


> It looks like a original 1890’s orange painted bike with a new Merkel decal badge and did anyone notice the exhaust pipe is on backwards?




*May be a variation .....  This document was posted by member Gary Mc back in 2013 ...



 *


----------



## redline1968

Here’s a pic of the extra long fish mouth joint on my Miami (merkel to be determined but pretty sure..lol)...


----------



## hoofhearted

*Miami - Built ... HUDSON  1915


 *


----------



## bentwoody66

hoofhearted said:


> *Miami - Built  HUDSON  1915
> View attachment 774820 *



Yours??

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## hoofhearted

bentwoody66 said:


> Yours??




*Sadly - No.

I have more info on this machine, but don't 
have a sense of comfort initiating a reveal, 
without permission of the current owner. 

Oh, that it were mine .......

..... patric*









*^^^^^ No Longer Mine ^^^^^                      .................................Aarrrgh !!*







*^^^^^ Similar ...... F-M Version ^^^^^*





 
​


----------



## hoofhearted




----------



## Foxclassics

Here's a picture of my grandmother and her niece in Middletown Ohio late teens early twenties. My grandmother was born in 1901.



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----------



## Freqman1

Foxclassics said:


> Here's a picture of my grandmother and her niece in Middletown Ohio late teens early twenties. My grandmother was born in 1901.View attachment 783873
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



That doesn't look like a Flying Merkel to me? V/r Shawn


----------



## hoofhearted

*I personally invited Foxclassics to post
that dear foto of a very-new Racycle.

There are members who have fotos of
wonderful Miami-Built machines,  and
would like a place of posting that does
not get lost in the multitude of threads.

That machine looks new !!
Thank you for posting, Mr. Fox.

...... patric*


----------



## Foxclassics

hoofhearted said:


> *I personally invited Foxclassics to post
> that dear foto of a very-new Racycle.
> 
> There are members who have fotos of
> wonderful Miami-Built machines,  and
> would like a place of posting that does
> not get lost in the multitude of threads.
> 
> That machine looks new !!
> Thank you for posting, Mr. Fox.
> 
> ...... patric*



Thanks Patric! 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Foxclassics

Here's some pictures of a Miami frame and fork I picked up a few weeks back. 











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----------



## hoofhearted

*
You are very-welcome, Tim.

Thank you for posting your diamond-frame
Miami-Built.  Your frame is of an era .. right
around 1918 (+ / -) where Miami may have 
been going thru a Design Renaissance.

The fender-bridges ... still very thick ... are now
very elegant, and beautiful, in and of themselves.

This was also the time when Miami introduced 
the F-M Badge.  

F-M used decals 1912 thru very-late 1917.

Other Miami badges were influenced and redesigned
during this ''Renaissance''.   No screw-holes, please.

There are many pics of Racycles that feature
a tall, diamond frame.  It's very unusual to find
an example as a motorbike.  The other one I 
can think of is from the same period as the one
you displayed -- this time olive drab.

...... patric



 *


----------



## Freqman1

Probably should have had a Miami thread to capture all the various Miami machines. Now that I've written the monograph it doesn't make a lot of difference to me but someone expecting to find FM stuff will wind up sifting through a bunch of unrelated material. V/r Shawn


----------



## hoofhearted

Freqman1 said:


> Probably should have had a Miami thread to capture all the various Miami machines. Now that I've written the monograph it doesn't make a lot of difference to me but someone expecting to find FM stuff will wind up sifting through a bunch of unrelated material. V/r Shawn




*This  particular thread was open for business in Fall of 2013.

Since that time, many contributors have posted
''Miami-Related'' material.

Some learners learn best when presented with what 
a teacher calls, ''single-focus'' material.

Other learners learn best when presented with what 
a teacher calls, ''compare and contrast'' material.

And more than a few learn best when presented
with a combination of both modalities.

It is unfortunate that a newbie expecting to find F-M
stuff will wind up sifting thru a bunch of other Miami
Cycle and Mfg. Co.  material ... but they will find their 
sifting to be, hopefully, more satisfying and fruitful 
than sifting out there on the Ethernet.

And I fully-expect these novice F-M sifters will find that 
they are rewarded with a far-richer learning experience ..
when sifting thru this thread.

Perhaps a moderator could modify the title of this thread
from Anyone here own a Miami Flying Merkel Bicycle?. by
slipping in a ''forward'' slash .. to read .... 

Anyone here own a Miami / Flying Merkel Bicycle?


*


----------



## bentwoody66

Foxclassics said:


> Here's some pictures of a Miami frame and fork I picked up a few weeks back. View attachment 783914View attachment 783915View attachment 783916View attachment 783917View attachment 783918
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



That backdrop looks familiar[emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Foxclassics

hoofhearted said:


> *This  particular thread was open for business in Fall of 2013.
> 
> Since that time, many contributors have posted
> ''Miami-Related'' material.
> 
> Some learners learn best when presented with what
> a teacher calls, ''single-focus'' material.
> 
> Other learners learn best when presented with what
> a teacher calls, ''compare and contrast'' material.
> 
> And more than a few learn best when presented
> with a combination of both modalities.
> 
> It is unfortunate that a newbie expecting to find F-M
> stuff will wind up sifting thru a bunch of other Miami
> Cycle and Mfg. Co.  material ... but they will find their
> sifting to be, hopefully, more satisfying and fruitful
> than sifting out there on the Ethernet.
> 
> And I fully-expect these novice F-M sifters will find that
> they are rewarded with a far-richer learning experience ..
> when sifting thru this thread.
> 
> Perhaps a moderator could modify the title of this thread
> from Anyone here own a Miami Flying Merkel Bicycle?. by
> slipping in a ''forward'' slash .. to read ....
> 
> Anyone here own a Miami / Flying Merkel Bicycle?
> 
> 
> *



Very well said Patric! Here's the deep wall raingutter fenders we talked about. Looks like the one's you posted above and mine is missing 1 of the 2 brace's for the front fender.












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----------



## hoofhearted

*MEMO From The Uh-Oh Department ....



 
@Freqman1 .... Shawn .. can you get us a measure from your F-M, please ?





 


DONE FOR 4/7 ... BACK WITHIN 24 HOURS.*


----------



## Freqman1

Here ya go! I'm contemplating bringing this one north in a few weeks. V/r Shawn


----------



## Freqman1

Foxclassics said:


> Very well said Patric! Here's the deep wall raingutter fenders we talked about. Looks like the one's you posted above and mine is missing 1 of the 2 brace's for the front fender.View attachment 784159View attachment 784160View attachment 784161View attachment 784162View attachment 784163
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



These fenders are not the same as mine and appear to be a lot more boxy. V/r Shawn


----------



## hoofhearted

*BRING YOUR F-M NORTH !!

Thank you, Shawn !!

They do look a bit boxy... 

Do you see any similarities or differences between the red 
fenders and the fenders on that olive, Racycle motorbike ?
Racycle fenders look to have less than one-inch dropsides.

Done for today ... waaay tired ...... zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzz  patric
*


----------



## Goldenindian

I have a set of international stamping fenders that have all the same traits as the olive green racycle. Shorter nose then Davis, double front brace, no nipple, and *1in deep drop sides.* Hope this helps...


----------



## bentwoody66

Goldenindian said:


> I have a set of international stamping fenders that have all the same traits as the olive green racycle. Shorter nose then Davis, double front brace, no nipple, and *1in deep drop sides.* Hope this helps...
> View attachment 784598View attachment 784599View attachment 784600
> 
> View attachment 784601



Just like mine on the archbar.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bentwoody66

My 1" fenders



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## redline1968

hoofhearted said:


> *MEMO From The Uh-Oh Department ....
> 
> View attachment 784236
> @Freqman1 .... Shawn .. can you get us a measure from your F-M, please ?
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 784257
> 
> 
> DONE FOR 4/7 ... BACK WITHIN 24 HOURS.*




By applying math you could use the measurement of a chain link in the photo along with the space between the link and get a very close approximation of the width.


----------



## Freqman1

Foxclassics said:


> Here's some pictures of a Miami frame and fork I picked up a few weeks back. View attachment 783914View attachment 783915View attachment 783916View attachment 783917View attachment 783918
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk



Can you post a pic of the serial number on this frame? V/r Shawn


----------



## Foxclassics

Freqman1 said:


> Can you post a pic of the serial number on this frame? V/r Shawn



Here ya go 




Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Freqman1

MLC Merkel photo op. So there I am minding my own business when Nick tells me Vaughan is there with his Merkel. Heck just happened to have mine in the trailer so we put'em together for a little Merkel magic.... @hoofhearted @fordsnake @chitown @barracuda @Nickinator @bentwoody66


----------



## hoofhearted

Freqman1 said:


> MLC Merkel photo op. So there I am minding my own business when Nick tells me Vaughan is there with his Merkel. Heck just happened to have mine in the trailer so we put 'em together for a little Merkel magic....



*
Shawn ......*
*
Am more than thrilled  that Nick .. You and Vaughn 
orchestrated this priceless foto-opportunity.

Two relics that are out standing in their field.

..... I salute everyone who was involved.

..... patric

*


----------



## fordsnake

Shawn...two diamonds in the rough...absolutely beautiful!


----------



## mongeese




----------



## Goldenindian

Thanks to Shawn and Vaughan for bringing the merkels to memory lane this year. I never thought I would see two flying merkels in one day. It made my trip!


----------



## Goldenindian




----------



## Foxclassics

Racycle chain ring and cog I picked up over the weekend. 





Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## hoofhearted

*@Dave Stromberger *

*Dave .... there is a request at the bottom of Entry #681 at the very 
top of page 35.  I know you can be very busy ... if you can find the
time, would you please give consideration to my request in #681 ?*

*Thank you in advance, Dave .....*

*..... patric*


----------



## Dave Stromberger

hoofhearted said:


> *@Dave Stromberger *
> 
> *Dave .... there is a request at the bottom of Entry #681 at the very
> top of page 35.  I know you can be very busy ... if you can find the
> time, would you please give consideration to my request in #681 ?*
> 
> *Thank you in advance, Dave .....*
> 
> *..... patric*




Done.


----------



## hoofhearted

Dave Stromberger said:


> *Done.*




*Well, I must say that .was quick, Dave !!*

*Quickest thing I've seen since the river took Emmy Lou .....*

*Thank you, Sir !*

..... patric.


----------



## hoofhearted

*The following is from a very-recent ebay auction
brought to my attention by the ever-so-aware
CABEr, * @mongeese  . *Thank you, mongeese !*

*The auction is no longer posted ... had an indicated
reserve of $11,500 ... @ $12,000 the auction, was over.  *

*The auction indicated a short vid on youtube ... Flying Merkel chassis.*

..... patric

Auction fotos are as follows .......


----------



## barracuda




----------



## hoofhearted

@barracuda ... _Robert ..._Thank you, Sir, for
posting the corresponding 1911 F-M you-
tube vid to this ''pictured'' frame.

I know I will not be the only CABEr who is
appreciative.

..... patric

There are CABErs among us that will want to
give me a ''like'' for typing what I just did.

*Do not give your ''like'' to me ...* give it to _bar-
racuda ... he's the one who posted the vid._


----------



## hoofhearted

*POSTCARD*

*

*


----------



## shoe3

hoofhearted said:


> *POSTCARD*
> 
> *View attachment 839947*
> 
> View attachment 839950


----------



## shoe3

Miami Rami minus badge,minus paint , minus tires.minus nickel.


----------



## shoe3

shoe3 said:


> Miami Rami minus badge,minus paint , minus tires.minus nickel.
> 
> View attachment 840015


----------



## Goldenindian

Found this in the 1916 motor cycle illustrated. 
Thought it was pretty cool.


----------



## Goldenindian




----------



## Freqman1

Now this is interesting. The ad comes from Feb 17, 1918. I've noticed a lot of newspaper ads recycled images--sometimes for years as with the Phantom. At first I though that's what this was except it just didn't look like the 1915 model. Notice the darts on the frame which would confirm this at least a '17+ model. Still researching-still learning! V/r Shawn
@hoofhearted @bentwoody66 @fordsnake


----------



## Freqman1

24 May 1918





Jul 8, 1918--sometimes the type setter makes mistakes!


----------



## bentwoody66

Freqman1 said:


> 24 May 1918
> 
> View attachment 906363
> 
> Jul 8, 1918--sometimes the type setter makes mistakes!
> 
> View attachment 906364



That IS a MISTAKE!!!!!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Freqman1

Mar 23, 1917  Notice the spring fork on the Racycle and the mention of the "New Hercules four-ply frame construction."  V/r Shawn


----------



## bentwoody66

Shawn has got the detectors going full bore tonight. Great info.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Goldenindian

These ads reminded me that Cabe member “bricycle”posted this...should be in this thread. 


Thanks bricycle!


----------



## Wcben

Lotsa inaccuracies there, images of FM’ and Racycles swapped, two different prices for Miami roadsters yet what is pictured is a Pacemaker


----------



## Goldenindian




----------



## bentwoody66

Goldenindian said:


> View attachment 908131



Is this your photo? If you ever sell it I'm interested.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Goldenindian

Just found it on the web search. Knew it was a Miami, had to share it.


----------



## Goldenindian

Scored this off eBay. Miami Powerbicycle postcard circa 1916.
“100 miles for 10 cents”


----------



## bombollis

Wondering if anyone can pinpoint a year on this miami?

 












Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hoofhearted

@bombollis

*Miami Cycle & Manufacturing Co. folded sometime in 1923 ..
maybe 1924.  I cannot provide documentation for the exact
date.*

*Westfield Manufacturing Co. purchased Miami Cycle sometime
within those dates.*

*Your Miami may be as early as 1923 or 1924.*


----------



## Freqman1

Like Patric says this is a Westfield built bike-not Miami Built. The serial would provide the year. It would likely be ‘24 or later. V/r Shawn


----------



## bombollis

hoofhearted said:


> @bombollis
> 
> *Miami Cycle & Manufacturing Co. folded sometime in 1923 ..
> maybe 1924. I cannot provide documentation for the exact
> date.*
> 
> *Westfield Manufacturing Co. purchased Miami Cycle sometime
> within those dates.*
> 
> *Your Miami may be as early as 1923 or 1924.*




I too thought Westfield built, but noticed sprocket and crank look Miami, 

Serial number is G6xxxx

I can’t seem to locate a Westfield serial number chart.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Archie Sturmer

G = 1929, a crash bike?


----------



## bentwoody66

I have a page on Facebook for Miami fanatics. Today a member of that page invited us to gather at his place to talk bikes. Enjoy the photos



















Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bentwoody66

More pics



















Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bentwoody66

More pics
















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----------



## Goldenindian

Wow thanks for sharing.  Amazing stuff!! What a cool idea. !!!!!!


----------



## catfish

Very nice gathering! Some very cool bikes and lit!


----------



## bentwoody66

catfish said:


> Very nice gathering! Some very cool bikes and lit!



That wasnt even the half of the literature there Ed!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## catfish

bentwoody66 said:


> That wasnt even the half of the literature there Ed!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk




Lets see the rest!


----------



## bentwoody66

catfish said:


> Lets see the rest!



We took the pics at the end of the meeting so most had been put away.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bentwoody66

That poster was the highlight of my day!!!! Along with that o.g. Racycle motorbike.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## catfish

bentwoody66 said:


> That poster was the highlight of my day!!!! Along with that o.g. Racycle motorbike.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk




I love the one that shows the four badges.


----------



## bentwoody66

catfish said:


> I love the one that shows the four badges.



That was a 2 sided poster with the original mailing envelope with the spectators on it. The address is somewhere in Massachusetts Fish. Any ideas of the dealer?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bentwoody66

Swank & Sons, Brunswick Maryland

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bentwoody66

bentwoody66 said:


> That was a 2 sided poster with the original mailing envelope with the spectators on it. The address is somewhere in Massachusetts Fish. Any ideas of the dealer?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



Sorry Maryland Mr. Fish. I showed them a pic of your Sam Sco badge.

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----------



## bentwoody66

Patric I wished you could have been there.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bentwoody66

By the way Patric, did the truss rod supports always break even like mine? These were on the Racycle motorbike. 




Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bentwoody66

And here is my Miami



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bentwoody66

Both are supposed to be from 1921

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## catfish

bentwoody66 said:


> Sorry Maryland Mr. Fish. I showed them a pic of your Sam Sco badge.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk




That is OK.


----------



## mongeese

Miami top echelon.


----------



## hoofhearted

@bentwoody66



bentwoody66 said:


> By the way Patric, did the truss rod supports always break even like mine? These were on the Racycle motorbike.




*Yarr !! ... Woulda liked to have been there ... *

*Ken ... here are some things for you ... below.*

*One thing is a ''fur shur'' ...... attaching dates
to Miami-Builts ... and considering all of the
features the company supposedly offered 
during certain years ... Well ... that company
is certainly confusing the heck out of us Sons 
of Biscuit Eaters ............*

Wonderful Machines ... ALL ... at that gathering !!

..... patric




















* Thank You to nostalgic.net for the use of the 1921 F-M catalog page*


----------



## ohmybike

wow the Miami motorbike looks awesome im pretty sure sounds awesome too. thanks for the pics


----------



## hoofhearted

@mongeese  and @bentwoody66  and @barracuda


----------



## Goldenindian

I noticed this the other day in this photo. Thanks hoofhearted and mongeese for showing a good “real” reference.


----------



## bentwoody66

Alot of great info coming to light, thanks hoofhearted, mongeese, and goldenindian.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## hoofhearted

@bentwoody66 

*Ken ... please consider asking a moderator (maybe rustjunkie) to
move this entire thread over to the ''Miami / Flying Merkel Thread'' ...
after activity on this thread slows a bit.*

*That is .. if you agree a consolidation may benefit the reader / researcher.*

*Thank you for your consideration, Ken ...*

*..... patric*


----------



## bentwoody66

Do agree Patric. As soon as it slows let's move it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## mongeese

Miami - the truth will be held in the masses eventually. It has been suppressed for covet means far too long. Let the light shine.


----------



## bentwoody66

mongeese said:


> Miami - the truth will be held in the masses eventually. It has been suppressed for covet means far too long. Let the light shine.



SHHHHH! We only want those in the know to KNOW.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## bentwoody66

Can a moderator move this to the Miami Merkel tread?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Wcben

Outstanding info and get together!


----------



## hoofhearted

*BUMP it up from the basement ....*

*This BUMP is for those members who have not*
*gone thru this grueling, thirty-seven page thread.*

*Yeah ... I know you went to Copake .. and you *
*missed some Miami stuff because you were *
*''unaware'' ...........*

*MLC and Ann Arbor coming up ..... Still lookin' for*
*Miami Stuff ?  Don't let the same dog bite you twice.*

*READ ................. *


----------



## Freqman1

Or if you want the synthesis of those 37 pages with some added horsepower you can go here https://thecabe.com/forum/pages/the_flying_merkel_bicycle/  or here https://vintageamericanbicycles.com/index.php/the-flying-merkel-bicycles/   V/r Shawn


----------



## hoofhearted

*Not mine .... was sold on ebay sometime in early 2019.*


----------



## John

Anyone have the catalog page for this model


----------



## hoofhearted




----------



## hoofhearted

*Horsepower added to Goldenindian's foto ...*

*This is a Miami-Built motorbike - pre 1918.*

*Thank you, again -- *@Goldenindian *  .....*

*..... patric*


----------



## hoofhearted

*This is what I wanted the reader to see ...*

*Bought a half-dozen of these from MLC ...
some twenty years ago ... NOS ... marked 
''Patent 1914'' - may have also said ''Pending''.*

*Fifteen Simoleons a copy ... did not know what 
they were at the time.  Who ever does ?*

*Now believe they are a Miami product .. but can't 
be sure.  Thoughts ?*

*And now I can't find a single one in my boneyard ...
Haven't seen any - since the river took Emy Lou.*

*Altho' .. *@sm2501 *Scott McC. may have them .......*


----------



## hoofhearted

*Uh-oh !! .....*

*

*


----------



## troy boy

Hi  Pat , do you think miami ,merkal ever made frames for mead ? Thanks Brian


----------



## hoofhearted

troy boy said:


> Hi  Pat , do you think miami ,merkal ever made frames for mead ? Thanks Brian




===========================================

*Well ..Brian ... Miami Cycle & Manuf. Co. did make bicycles
featuring their many badge names .. and many were made 
for numerous hardware companies -- sporting the hardware 
company's private badge design ... but I have seen no evi-
dence of a Mead connection.*

*Now, this does not mean there was never a connection .. it jusr
means I've personally never seen one.*

*But there are a bunch of things I've never seen ... antimatter ..
blackholes ... actual Megalodon Sharks living in the Mariana-
Trench ... Bigfoot ... and Padre Pio.*

..... patric


----------



## charnleybob

hoofhearted said:


> *This is what I wanted the reader to see ...*
> 
> *Bought a half-dozen of these from MLC ...
> some twenty years ago ... NOS ... marked
> ''Patent 1914'' - may have also said ''Pending''.*
> 
> *Fifteen Simoleons a copy ... did not know what
> they were at the time.  Who ever does ?*
> 
> *Now believe they are a Miami product .. but can't
> be sure.  Thoughts ?*
> 
> *And now I can't find a single one in my boneyard ...
> Haven't seen any - since the river took Emy Lou.*
> 
> *Altho' .. *@sm2501 *Scott McC. may have them .......*
> 
> View attachment 992529






This is so enhanced, my eyes are bleeding...


----------



## WFarm

Had no idea Flying Merkel bicycles existed. Saw several Flying Merkel motorcycles at the Wheels Thru Time museum in NC, a place I would recommend anybody to visit. Awesome.


----------



## Foxclassics

Here's one I picked up a month ago. Anyone know the year?














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----------



## hoofhearted

*Grateful …..*

*Learned this past week CABEr @Jesse McCauley had 
a wonderful D&J crank/ring set...  28 tooth / inch pitch ...
available for sale in the CABE Forum.*

*Unbelievable.*

*This is magic stuff that just does not show up in an 
open market.  *

*Furthermore … these units do not fit each and every 
wheel comin' down the pike.*

*The bicycle must be factory fitted with a split crankcase.
And … the distance of the dogleg .. on the chainstays ...
to the back of the crankcase ... limit the ring size.  *

*A large chainring just isn't going to waltz into any .old frame.*

*If we were talkin' balloon-era … and if these next two bicycles 
had a split crankcase … well .. this typer can think of only TWO ….
that may be able to carry a D&J having a big ring.  This run-on 
sentence is meant to be illustrative … for any post-1933 enthusiasts.*

*Talkin' 'bout the Paris, Texas Rocket bicycle … and a LWB Colson.  *

*In addition .. I had acquired a 60 tooth / half-inch pitch, NOS D&J ring 
… more than a few years ago.  NOS.  *

*That. was also a really tuff item. Tuffer than the correct bracket for a 
U.S.A.- stamped '' Neverout'' kero-lamp for the WWl Military bicycles.*

*The machine that will soon have the D&J unit installed within -- currently 
has a totally wrong chainring.  The ring is not appropriate for any Miami-
Built.  It was on the machine when i acquired it .. in maybe 1999.*

*The 1912 Flying-Merkel bulldog -- soon to have extra teeth.*

..... patric











*Thank You >> Jesse *_!!_


----------



## Jesse McCauley

hoofhearted said:


> *Grateful …..*
> 
> *Learned this past week CABEr @Jesse McCauley had
> a wonderful D&J crank/ring set... 28 tooth / inch pitch ...
> available for sale in the CABE Forum.*
> 
> *Unbelievable.*
> 
> *This is magic stuff that just does not show up in an
> open market. *
> 
> *Furthermore … these units do not fit each and every
> wheel comin' down the pike.*
> 
> *The bicycle must be factory fitted with a split crankcase.
> And … the distance of the dogleg .. on the chainstays ...
> to the back of the crankcase ... limit the ring size. *
> 
> *A large chainring just isn't going to waltz into any .old frame.*
> 
> *If we were talkin' balloon-era … and if these next two bicycles
> had a split crankcase … well .. this typer can think of only TWO ….
> that may be able to carry a D&J having a big ring. This run-on
> sentence is meant to be illustrative … for any post-1933 enthusiasts.*
> 
> *Talkin' 'bout the Paris, Texas Rocket bicycle … and a LWB Colson. *
> 
> *In addition .. I had acquired a 60 tooth / half-inch pitch, NOS D&J ring
> … more than a few years ago. NOS. *
> 
> *That. was also a really tuff item. Tuffer than the correct bracket for a
> U.S.A.- stamped '' Neverout'' kero-lamp for the WWl Military bicycles.*
> 
> *The machine that will soon have the D&J unit installed within -- currently
> has a totally wrong chainring. The ring is not appropriate for any Miami-
> Built. It was on the machine when i acquired it .. in maybe 1999.*
> 
> *The 1912 Flying-Merkel bulldog -- soon to have extra teeth.*
> 
> ..... patric
> 
> 
> View attachment 1077120
> 
> View attachment 1077122
> 
> 
> *Thank You >> Jesse *_!!_




Fated to be Patric, thank you for doing what you do! 


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## szathmarig

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/what-do-i-have-here-truss-frame-miami-built-flying-merkel.160103/


----------



## hoofhearted

*A Mystery Solved re: Entry #353 … May 4, 2014.*

*For some time now .. a few readers have contacted me *
*off the line as to the where-a-bouts of fotos of the late- *
*1917 FM chassis I had at MLC/AA Spring of 2014.*

*After MUCH digging within this thread .. I found them … *
*buried under a ''**Click To Expand'' **opportunity.*

*Had not seen them myself, in a while .. no matter how *
*many times I've reviewed this thread.*

*ANYHOO …..*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*

*


----------



## hoofhearted

.


----------



## bentwoody66

Freqman1 said:


> Ok so after more than a few hours looking at all the catalogs and this thread here is where I'm at on the FM chain rings. Keep in mind some of these chain rings may be found on other Miami products in different years. I have not seen any ads showing the 1912 FMs but the 1912 Racycle cat shows the sweetheart rings for the juvenile models so an assumption on my part is that the earliest FM juveniles most likely used this ring as well. Dates followed by a question mark are my best guess and any evidence to support or refute these dates is welcomed. This goes for any other rings/tooth counts/drives that you feel are in error. Ok SOTFM did you just hear a bell ring?
> 
> Solid center clover leaf (1” pitch) 26T, 28T (1912?-1916)
> Cut out Cloverleaf (1” pitch) 24T (1920-1923 Racer center drive), 28T, 30T (1916-1917)
> Cut out Cloverleaf (1/2” pitch) 48T, 60T (1912?-1916)
> Star (1” pitch) 30T (1914?-1917)
> Star (1/2” pitch) 60T (1914?-1917)
> Five spoke (1/2” pitch) 60T (1918-1919)
> Circle of "F"s 28T (center drive) (1920-1923)
> Sweetheart 22T (Juvenile 1912-1922), 24T, 26T (1914?-1923)
> 
> 
> *Five spoke ½” pitch 26T not used on FM
> 
> View attachment 416425
> Solid Center Cloverleaf
> 
> View attachment 416426
> Cutout Cloverleaf
> 
> View attachment 416428
> Star
> 
> View attachment 416429
> Five Spoke
> 
> View attachment 416430
> Circle of "F"s
> 
> View attachment 416431
> Sweetheart



What year or years was the 5 spoke used?

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----------



## Freqman1

bentwoody66 said:


> What year or years was the 5 spoke used?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk



Have you read the FM. article? I think I have dates for each ring. V/r Shawn


----------



## bentwoody66

Freqman1 said:


> Have you read the FM. article? I think I have dates for each ring. V/r Shawn



So 1918-1919, what is the consensus on this? Miami made or Davis made?



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----------



## New Mexico Brant

@bentwoody66 regarding your 5 spoke question:



Freqman1 said:


> Have you read the FM. article? I think I have dates for each ring. V/r Shawn



Shawn,
In your post #595 (in this thread) you have a more complete list of rings; the _five spoke_ is mentioned in you FM article but not illustrated.  For clarification, does the _five spoke_ show up in the Miami product line, but to date there is no print evidence they were used on the "Flying Merkel?"  Here is your an excerpt (and image) from you post number 595:



Freqman1 said:


> Solid center clover leaf (1” pitch) 26T, 28T (1912?-1916)
> Cut out Cloverleaf (1” pitch) 24T (1920-1923 Racer center drive), 28T, 30T (1916-1917)
> Cut out Cloverleaf (1/2” pitch) 48T, 60T (1912?-1916)
> Star (1” pitch) 30T (1914?-1917)
> Star (1/2” pitch) 60T (1914?-1917)
> Five spoke (1/2” pitch) 60T (1918-1919)
> Circle of "F"s 28T (center drive) (1920-1923)
> Sweetheart 22T (Juvenile 1912-1922), 24T, 26T (1914?-1923)




image credit: Shawn Sweeney (from post #595 of this thread).




The Oct. 4, 1917 trade journal: _Motorcycle and Bicycle Illustrated_ shows two models with the five spoke in use.  The "Motor Bike" and the "Miami Flyer" both are illustrated with a five spoke chain ring.  Reference Patric's post number: 658 in this thread to view the illustrations.


----------



## Freqman1

I’ll take a look tonight. On the road today. V/r Shawn


----------



## New Mexico Brant

John said:


> Anyone have the catalog page for this model
> View attachment 989426




@Goldenindian spotted it in this 1921 advertisement in: _Motorcycle and Bicycle Illustrated_.


----------



## New Mexico Brant

bentwoody66 said:


> So 1918-1919, what is the consensus on this? Miami made or Davis made?View attachment 1084793
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
> View attachment 1084794



Here are some frame detail images to better assist in identification, I can provide more specific images if needed:


----------



## hoofhearted

@bentwoody66

@New Mexico Brant



bentwoody66 said:


> So 1918-1919, what is the consensus on this?
> Miami-made or Davis-made ?




======================================

*Ken … am doing something I never do.*

*Taking a guess.*

*This a.m. you sent me a foto of the crank-
case with the serial number.*

*The numbers told me the machine is not a
Davis … and the crankcase told me the bicycle 
is not a Miami-Built. *

*Miami did not fit their machines with Fauber 
equipment.*

*However .. Fauber equipment may be fitted if 
the Miami has a ''split'' crankcase.*

*This machine does not have a split crankcase … 
but it is Fauber fitted.*

*It's now time to firmly grasp on to the lapels of
your leisure suit.*

*I believe the bicycle is of Indiana origin.  *

*Fauber was an Indiana manufacturer … and I've 
rarely seen any pre-1920 bicycle coming outta 
Indiana that was NOT fitted with Fauber components.*

*In truth … the only thing I know about Indiana Bicycles 
is that during WWl .. our government contracted with 
Great Western to build a batch of Military Bicycles.*

*There is a bunch of stuff I absolutely do not know.*

*Just yesterday .. I learned that Queen Elizabeth actually 
does have a last name -- ''Windsor''.*

*…. patric*




[/QUOTE]


----------



## bentwoody66

hoofhearted said:


> @bentwoody66
> 
> @New Mexico Brant
> 
> 
> 
> ======================================
> 
> *Ken … am doing something I never do.*
> 
> *Taking a guess.*
> 
> *This a.m. you sent me a foto of the crank-
> case with the serial number.*
> 
> *The numbers told me the machine is not a
> Davis … and the crankcase told me the bicycle
> is not a Miami-Built. *
> 
> *Miami did not fit their machines with Fauber
> equipment.*
> 
> *However .. Fauber equipment may be fitted if
> the Miami has a ''split'' crankcase.*
> 
> *This machine does not have a split crankcase …
> but it is Fauber fitted.*
> 
> *It's now time to firmly grasp on to the lapels of
> your leisure suit.*
> 
> *I believe the bicycle is of Indiana origin. *
> 
> *Fauber was an Indiana manufacturer … and I've
> rarely seen any pre-1920 bicycle coming outta
> Indiana that was NOT fitted with Fauber components.*
> 
> *In truth … the only thing I know about Indiana Bicycles
> is that during WWl .. our government contracted with
> Great Western to build a batch of Military Bicycles.*
> 
> *There is a bunch of stuff I absolutely do not know.*
> 
> *Just yesterday .. I learned that Queen Elizabeth actually
> does have a last name -- ''Windsor''.*
> 
> *…. patric*
> 
> 
> View attachment 1084994



[/QUOTE]Great Western built Reading Standard?

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----------



## hoofhearted

*Uh-Oh !! …..*

*


Image found inside the Ethernet.*


----------



## New Mexico Brant

hoofhearted said:


> Uh-Oh _!! ….._




Excellent find Patric!  When I bought this bike I was hoping it was a Crown WWI model, hence my post in the military section of the forum.  Regrettably no one was forthcoming with any details of what a Crown military bike really looks like expect for the image of the single at a distance (it was impossible to do proper comparison).  The frame construction really threw me for a loop when comparing it to the Crown I currently have for sale and another comp.


----------



## bentwoody66

Awesome Patric!!!! Now I'm sleuthing in a completely different direction.

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----------



## bentwoody66

Goldenindian said:


> View attachment 923913
> 
> View attachment 923914
> I noticed this the other day in this photo. Thanks hoofhearted and mongeese for showing a good “real” reference.



Does this picture belong to you Goldenindian?

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## Mark Mattei

Not a Miami Racycle, just a paper scrap.


----------



## bentwoody66

Mark Mattei said:


> Not a Miami Racycle, just a paper scrap.View attachment 1088197
> View attachment 1088198
> 
> View attachment 1088199



If this is scrap, go ahead and send it my way so I can dispose of it properly. LOL

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----------



## cyclingday




----------



## Dmar73

Just purchased this a few weeks back 1916, I believe ..


----------



## weebob

just for the love of it     






Dmar73 said:


> Just purchased this a few weeks back 1916, I believe ..
> 
> View attachment 1095804
> 
> View attachment 1095805


----------



## Jesse McCauley

For posterity - Miami built Rami frameset ready for rehab- 
I would guess ca. 1900 but I will default to @hoofhearted  to that point


----------



## vuniw

Picked up this tandem Flying Merkel track bike today. It is underneath the New Mail high wheel I also picked up (also picked up a shaft drive Rambler). I can’t find any picture of another Flying Merkel tandem so I was hoping somebody could share one. I will take better pictures when the bike finally makes it back to my house. It is in Kansas now and I live in Connecticut so it could be a while. I also threw in pictures of my 3 Racycles. I have been following this thread for a while and figured now is a good time to jump in


----------



## fordsnake

Shawn,

48T & 60T D&J ½ inch chainnrings were offered on the 1913 Flying Merkel.
I noticed the *6OT* D&J ½ inch chainring was omitted from your list! https://thecabe.com/forum/pages/the_flying_merkel_bicycle

Was there a reason you did not include it?


----------



## fordsnake

I just spent the last 3 hours rereading this post…good stuff! As a contributor to this robust post…I try my best and do my homework. I do not refer or present myself as an expert. I’m just a guy who enjoys researching, digging for the facts and evidence. I recall not long ago a CABE member referred to me as a "paper freak"! That’s a moniker, I proudly wear with honor.

So, was there really a 60T D&J ½ chainring on a Flying Merkel?  I’ll let the evidence speak for me.


----------



## fordsnake

Several CABE members have asked about my front fork, wanting to know if it was a Flying Merkel option? This particular spring fork is indeed a Miami Cycle Co. produced fork and period correct!  The tank is my addition, I had it fabricated for mere aesthetics .
.





Here the fork is seen on another Flying Merkel.  



...also a Racycle and a Racycle motorcycle.


----------



## New Mexico Brant

Did Miami ever use this skip tooth version of this chain ring or just the 1/2 pitch?  Where dog legged cranks used in their product lines?


----------



## fordsnake

Looking at the beefiness of the chainring and the dogleg...this might have been a setup for an early motor bicycle?






The 1" D&J drivetrain was used on multiple high end bicycles before Miami bought the company (theres a thread in the CABE's archive addressing the company). 

















Hudson exclusively used the D&J setup. Miami bought Hudson Bicycles, and subsequently bought Park City Mfg., which owned D&J.


----------



## cyclingday

WWI inspired, 1918 advertisement.


----------



## Freqman1




----------



## fordsnake

Hey Shawn...can you make the change in your article to include the D&J 60T https://thecabe.com/forum/pages/the_flying_merkel_bicycle   see my post #797 & 798?
Thanks


----------



## BatWaves

Sorry Gents....


----------



## bentwoody66

BatWaves said:


> Alright gents, here’s one for ya.... I believe this chainring is Miami built, but what does this look like to you..? My 1910 Racycle has the same triple crown forks. I sorta thought the frame looked very similar to the Excelsior. Hope this is worthy of the thread...
> View attachment 1184191
> View attachment 1184190
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1184193



Looks good so far, let's see some pics of the rear dropouts and the fender bridges.

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## ccmerz

Looks like a Schwinn Henderson chain ring?


----------



## New Mexico Brant

Fender brace observations from my 1921+/- Racycle:  When I purchased the bike it was missing part of the the rear fender brace.  With comparative research I found this type of brace (double rivets just below the fender) appears on a handful of other late teens/early 20's Racycles.  Fortunately I was able to locate a replacement.  Just before I mounted the brace I could make out an imprint that would be hidden after attachment to the fender.  It reads "Wald Mfr. Made in USA, Patented."  It seems Wald's proprietary idea with these braces is the two small side tabs that aid in securing a square nut in place.


----------



## Wilfredo

hoofhearted said:


> Thank you all for those swell comments.  Carlton, the bicycle DOES have the split bottom bracket .. none of
> the fotos reveal the hardware.  There is enough info remaining on the headtube decal to indicate the bicycle
> is a Miami-Built Merkel.  Also .. there is a brass, Model Tag above the decal .. can't remember the model number.
> Miami Cycle rides often .. but not always .. have threaded chain-adjusters as part of their construction ... AND ...
> Miami Cycle Rides often .. but not always .. have a split bottom bracket.
> 
> Here are a few more pics from the Cabe .. a few have been leaned-on with Paint.Net ... Scott Mc snapped the pics
> when he visited my home a half-dozen years ago.  Also, the Cabe Archives has this ride listed as a 1913 .. in reality
> it is a 1912 Model.
> 
> Carlton .. thank you for all of the literature you posted .. Good Stuff !!!!!!
> 
> ................  patric
> 
> 
> Post Script ... The SHORT rear fender is made that way ... the port and starboard, edge under-bends are mitered at 45 degrees .. top and bottom.
> An interesting footnote .. when I picked up the bicycle, (delivered to a Perrysburg, Ohio - MLC Spring Swap Meet in the late 1990's) .. I found an exact-
> replacement, NOS, rear fender for this ride ... on the "fender-boneyard-shelf" inside MLC.  The newer-fender is intended to replace the original that had
> acquired a bunch of welds in the area between the fender bridges .. sometime during it's lifetime.  During the exact moment I spotted that NOS fender ..
> a big-bosom lady with a Dutch accent informed me I had a square of toilet-paper sticking to my shoe .. and I heard a bell ring.
> 
> I want to see that fork! Wow
> 
> View attachment 119274View attachment 119275View attachment 119276View attachment 119277


----------



## saladshooter

Enjoy


----------



## fordmike65

saladshooter said:


> EnjoyView attachment 1232176
> 
> View attachment 1232177
> 
> View attachment 1232178


----------



## fordmike65

saladshooter said:


> EnjoyView attachment 1232176
> 
> View attachment 1232177
> 
> View attachment 1232178



Come on. We wanna see it all...


----------



## saladshooter

Sorry, I had no idea what I was taking pictures of 5 years ago and somehow forgot to take one of the whole bike.. I remember it being a diamond frame... maybe.


fordmike65 said:


> Come on. We wanna see it all...
> 
> View attachment 1232198


----------



## JO BO

New Mexico Brant said:


> Fender brace observations from my 1921+/- Racycle:  When I purchased the bike it was missing part of the the rear fender brace.  With comparative research I found this type of brace (double rivets just below the fender) appears on a handful of other late teens/early 20's Racycles.  Fortunately I was able to locate a replacement.  Just before I mounted the brace I could make out an imprint that would be hidden after attachment to the fender.  It reads "Wald Mfr. Made in USA, Patented."  It seems Wald's proprietary idea with these braces is the two small side tabs that aid in securing a square nut in place.
> 
> View attachment 1185702
> 
> View attachment 1185704View attachment 1185703
> View attachment 1185710
> View attachment 1185711



    Sent you a pm


----------



## catfish




----------



## New Mexico Brant

The elusive Sur-Plus pedals for certain year Flying Merkels and Racycles.  Anyone know who actually made these?  The Flying Mercury I just bought also has a pair.


----------



## szathmarig

Miami made Westminster Simmons Hardware


----------



## bentwoody66

szathmarig said:


> Miami made Westminster Simmons HardwareView attachment 1312625
> 
> View attachment 1312626
> 
> View attachment 1312627
> 
> View attachment 1312628
> 
> View attachment 1312629
> 
> View attachment 1312630
> 
> View attachment 1312631
> 
> View attachment 1312632
> 
> View attachment 1312633
> 
> View attachment 1312634
> 
> View attachment 1312635



That turned out really nice!!!!

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----------



## sm2501

Thoughts on this frame?


----------



## Goldenindian

Frame is interesting...the crank cup says “_*Hudson special*_” Right?


----------



## sm2501

Goldenindian said:


> Frame is interesting...the crank cup says “_*Hudson special*_” Right?
> View attachment 1320844




And Miami


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----------



## New Mexico Brant

Go Merkel!


----------



## Freqman1




----------



## bike




----------



## mikecuda

I missed one that was beautiful and it was a Truss frame bike at T Town.          The paint was very nice on it.  It still haunts me today.  Probably a member on here owns it.   I talked with the vendor who bought it at T Town.


----------



## New Mexico Brant

Some great literature I found on my Flying Merkel pendant:


----------



## mikecuda

I hope to own one someday.    My goodness.


----------



## mikecuda

fordsnake said:


> There are a few out there
> 
> View attachment 550847
> 
> View attachment 550848



Is Omaha orange the correct color for them?    I'm building a tribute.


----------



## bentwoody66

oddball said:


> View attachment 252242View attachment 252243View attachment 252244View attachment 252245



Where did this frame and fork ever end up?


----------



## mikecuda

barracuda said:


> View attachment 648964
> 
> Find a Grave obituary for Joseph Frederic Merkel
> 
> Birth:  Mar. 7, 1872
> Manistee
> Manistee County
> Michigan, USA
> 
> Death:  Jul. 5, 1958
> Rochester
> Monroe County
> New York, USA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Son of George Merkel & Mary Magdalen nee Huenekens
> 
> Rochester (NY) Democrat and Chronicle, Mon. July 7, 1958, p. 16:1.
> Joseph F. Merkel Mass Tomorrow; Cycle Inventor, 86.
> 
> Requiem mass for Joseph F. Merkel, 86, of 1222 Genesee Park Blvd., a retired mechanical engineer and the inventor of a motorcycle and a motorbicycle, will be celebrated at 9 a.m. tomorrow in Our Lady of Good Counsel Church. Mr. Merkel, who retired from General Railway Signal Co. nine years ago after 35 years with the firm, died of stroke in St. Mary's Hospital Saturday, July 5, 1958. He designed and manufactured the Merkel Motorcycle in Milwaukee before coming here 41 years ago. In Rochester he patented and built the Evans Cycle Motor. The company was in Cady Street. Mr. Merkel also was a designer for the Ever Ready Corp. on Long Island for several years before joining the GRS engineering staff. He was a native of Manistee MI. Mr. Merkel was a life member of the Rochester Council of the Knights of St. John and a member of the Fourth Degree Assembly of the organization. He is survived by two daughters, Sr. Marie Margaret of the Sisters of St. Joseph, a teacher in St. Francis de Sales High School in Geneva, and Mrs. Elsie McIntyre of Rochester; a son, Richard L. Merkel of Houston TX, a public relations director for the Trans-Texas Airways. The prayer service will be held at 8:30 a.m. in the Joseph A. Murphy Funeral Home, 363 Chili Ave. Burial will be in Holy Sepulchre Cemetery.
> 
> MERKEL-Joseph F. Merkel, 1222 Genesee Park Blvd., entered into rest Sat. July 5, 1958 He is survived by two daughters, Sr. Marie Margaret, Sisters of St. Joseph, DeSales High School, Geneva NY, and Mrs. Elsie McIntyre, Rochester; one son, Richard L. Merkel, Houston TX. He was a member of Rochester Council #178 Knights of Columbus, and the Fourth Degree Assembly.
> 
> Joseph Merkel
> INDUCTED: 1998 AMA Motorcycle Hall of Fame
> Founder of Merkel Motorcycles, engineer
> 
> Joseph Merkel was the founder of Merkel Motorcycles, manufacturer of machines better known as the "Flying Merkel." The Flying Merkel was one of the leading racing and road machines of the 1910s, earning numerous victories in a variety of contests of the day. Joseph Merkel was considered to be one of the finest engineers in U.S. motorcycling. He came up with dozens of innovative designs, many of which were copied by other motorcycle makers.   Merkel was born in Manistee, Michigan, in 1872. His father was employed in the logging industry and like many boys of his era, young Joseph went to work at a young age. He worked as an engineer on a logging railroad in 1886 when he was just 14 years old. At 15 Merkel went to work at a machine shop and learned the particulars of making machined parts that were light and durable. The practical mechanical experience gained in machining gave him a desire to learn more. He enrolled at Michigan Agricultural College (now Michigan State University) to study mechanical engineering.   In 1897, Merkel accepted a draftsman position at E.P. Allis Co. (later to become Allis-Chalmers Co.) in Milwaukee.
> 
> By the turn of the century, Merkel had opened his own business that manufactured bicycle parts. By 1901, Merkel was attaching small motors to bicycles and the Merkel Motorcycle was born. A motor-powered tricycle Merkel had built in 1900 was thought to be one of the first self-propelled vehicles built in Wisconsin.   Merkel didn't stop at motorcycles. In 1906, his company built 150 automobiles featuring a powerful 30-horsepower engine.   In 1908, Merkel merged his company with the Light Motor Co. and the new Merkel-Light Motor Co. moved activities to Pottstown, Pennsylvania.   Flying Merkels were known for having one of the finest rides in all of motorcycling and also as one of the most reliable motorcycles on the road. Merkels were more costly than many motorcycles of the time, but Merkel engines utilized the best German-made bearings and other high-quality materials, which led to excellent reliability.   Merkel also helped design a unique front and rear suspension system on his motorcycles. The rear suspension was a mono-shock design that proved to be decades ahead of its time. Yamaha would later make a similar single rear shock design popular again on racing machines of the 1970s and beyond. Even more impressive than the rear suspension was the front fork of the Flying Merkels. The fork was so good (telescopic in principle, using dual coil springs, yet looking like an unsprung trussed fork) that many other manufacturers put Merkel forks on their factory racing machines even through the 1920s, years after Merkel had ceased production.   Riders such as board track stars Morty Graves and Fred Whittler, and dirt track racers like Maldwyn Jones and Cleo Pineau, brought fame to the Flying Merkel through racing. Merkel rarely got directly involved in the racing end of his company, leaving that to other employees, but he attended many of races. With few exceptions, Merkel did not field full-fledged factory racing teams, but the company did pay many Merkel racers' expenses through its sales division.
> 
> Early in 1911, Miami Cycle and Mfg. Co. purchased Merkel-Light and transferred all operations to its Middletown, Ohio headquarters. Merkel came along with his company in the purchase. Merkel stayed with the company he founded until 1914 when he sold his interest in the company. Merkel went on to design and patent the Merkel Motor Wheel, which was later manufactured by Indian Motocycle Co.   By the 1920s, Merkel had moved to Rochester, New York, to take over experimental design for the Cyclemotor Corp. Merkel earned a lot of praise from the motorcycling industry in the early 1920s when he convinced the New York legislature to assess lower highway fees on motorcycles since they caused much less wear and tear to the road than automobiles.   The Flying Merkel continued on without Merkel at the helm until just before the onset of World War I. After the war, Miami Cycle Mfg., like dozens of other American manufacturers, did not return to the motorcycle business. The Flying Merkel was relegated to the history books.   Little is known about Merkel after his stint with Cyclemotor in the early 1920s. He was an avid golfer and secretary of the Genesee Golf Club near Rochester. He was also a prominent booster in the Knights of Columbus and was involved in many charities.
> 
> 
> Family links:
> Spouse:
> Mary Katherine Odenbrett Merkel (1875 - 1924)*
> 
> Children:
> Elizabeth Maria Merkel McIntyre (1907 - 1994)*
> Mary Margaret Merkel (1912 - 2004)*
> Richard Lawrence Merkel (1930 - 1987)*
> 
> Burial:
> Holy Sepulchre Cemetery
> Rochester
> Monroe County
> New York, USA
> 
> Created by: Michael J. Petrie
> Record added: Jan 04, 2012
> Find A Grave Memorial# 82934111
> 
> View attachment 648965
> 
> View attachment 648966



My goodness. That makes my heart pound.


----------



## JO BO

I am not sure but this saddle may be motorcycle instead of bicycle......Experts let me know please?


----------



## Sarge7

I may have a girls Miami? Not positive


----------



## Freqman1

Not sure of year but has an unusual seat post. V/r Shawn


----------



## Jesse McCauley

Traditionally seen on pacing and stayer bicycles, this ol Racycle has been so manhandled though in his restore its hard to say what is original and what was just added on along the way- that auction was the worst thing I have experienced in a while.


----------



## Freqman1

Jesse McCauley said:


> Traditionally seen on pacing and stayer bicycles, this ol Racycle has been so manhandled though in his restore its hard to say what is original and what was just added on along the way- that auction was the worst thing I have experienced in a while.



I agree about the auction. It was hard to navigate and with auctions closing two minutes apart I had both a laptop and my phone going at the same time and still lost out on a coupe due to the refresh rate. Not sure the timing was very accurate either. I was happy with the four lots I got but if the platform was better he woulda got more money out of me. I actually think this bike is pretty decent and for what I paid. Once I get it I'll decide if its a keeper. The Stearns will be at MLC this fall.  V/r Shawn


----------



## Jesse McCauley

Not a bad buy for sure, every one of those bikes would have brought much more if listed well and described in any sort of detail.


----------



## Freqman1

Jesse McCauley said:


> Not a bad buy for sure, every one of those bikes would have brought much more if listed well and described in any sort of detail.



So did you score any gems from this one? What about the chainless carcass that looked like a Rambler with the stirrup handlebars? V/r Shawn


----------



## Jesse McCauley

Freqman1 said:


> So did you score any gems from this one? What about the chainless carcass that looked like a Rambler with the stirrup handlebars? V/r Shawn



Brutal man, I was the back bidder on that frame, two speed Rambler chainless- those bars couldn't have worked with that frame as the frame needed a quilled stem and that bar required a collar....damn I wanted that setup!  
So in answer to your question, nope- came away empty handed.


----------



## Goldenindian

Miami Flying Merkel 400 scout model https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1915-flying-merkel-400-scout.194969/


----------



## Goldenindian

'The Thoroughbred of Bicycles' Miami 1917-1919 Black Beauty | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

1917-1919 Haverford Cycle Company (Miami made) Black Beauty Champion model . (Faux tank) Special thanks to Nick(nickanator), Paul(Oldwhizzer), Brant (New Mexico Brant) , Ivo (balloontyre),  also scored a very cool original catalog with original envelope and correspondence.




					thecabe.com


----------



## Goldenindian

Black beauty 'The thoroughbred of bicycles' catalog | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					






					thecabe.com


----------



## New Mexico Brant

For posterity; the Flying Merkel that sold a couple weeks ago.  An amazing completely unmolested machine.  Beautiful original paint, decal badge, and Vitalic tires.  Not mine so I can’t answer any questions about it.  Congratulations to the new caretaker!   It has landed with a most honorable gentleman. I hope to see this in person someday soon.


----------



## hoofhearted

*Only 26''- wheel, Flying Merkel  juvi 
this typer has ever heard of ... or seen.*

patric


----------



## New Mexico Brant

I don't mean to contradict you Patric but I am seeing 28" even with the "horsepower added."  I have new prescription reading glasses so maybe they got the script wrong.  26" would certainly make it a rare bird indeed!


----------



## New Mexico Brant

I have confirmed with the new owner the tires are 28”.


----------



## hoofhearted

Brant ... It is highly-possible i am totally wrong in my perception 
and resultant thinking / statement, in Entry #843 of _this _thread.

My judgement was (is) influenced by what appears to be a smaller
than full-size motorbike saddle AND that 26-T ring ... both of which
appear to me as being in scale with _this_ bicycle.

Just hopin' to know truth .. whatever it may be.

patric


----------



## SKPC

Beautiful! It may need this SH chain ring though....but I could also be wrong.  Yes, Sir Patrick, just looking for the truth: it's a tough task...


----------



## Freqman1

For posterity; the Flying Merkel that sold a couple weeks ago.  An amazing completely unmolested machine.  Beautiful original paint, decal badge, and Vitalic tires.  Not mine so I can’t answer any questions about it.  Congratulations to the new caretaker!   It has landed with a most honorable gentleman. I hope to see this in person someday soon.


New Mexico Brant said:


> View attachment 1456717
> 
> View attachment 1456718
> 
> View attachment 1456719
> 
> View attachment 1456720
> 
> View attachment 1456721
> 
> View attachment 1456722
> 
> View attachment 1456723
> 
> View attachment 1456724



An interesting machine for sure. 1918? I'd like to know what the seat tube measures. Seems like it has a short head tube and the frame just seems more compact than what I'm used to seeing. Just wondering if there was a 28" wheeled juvi? V/r Shawn


----------



## New Mexico Brant

Freqman1 said:


> For posterity; the Flying Merkel that sold a couple weeks ago.  An amazing completely unmolested machine.  Beautiful original paint, decal badge, and Vitalic tires.  Not mine so I can’t answer any questions about it.  Congratulations to the new caretaker!   It has landed with a most honorable gentleman. I hope to see this in person someday soon.
> 
> An interesting machine for sure. 1918? I'd like to know what the seat tube measures. Seems like it has a short head tube and the frame just seems more compact than what I'm used to seeing. Just wondering if there was a 28" wheeled juvi? V/r Shawn



According to a distinguished collector, a 28” wheeled camelback was offered between 1917-1919.  The frames measures out at 19”.


----------



## Goldenindian

In khaki


----------



## Freqman1

This kinda seems to answer another question about when the badge was introduced. If this is, in fact, a 1919 model then it appears 1920 is the first year for the badge. V/r Shawn


----------



## biker

New Mexico Brant said:


> For posterity; the Flying Merkel that sold a couple weeks ago.  An amazing completely unmolested machine.  Beautiful original paint, decal badge, and Vitalic tires.  Not mine so I can’t answer any questions about it.  Congratulations to the new caretaker!   It has landed with a most honorable gentleman. I hope to see this in person someday soon.
> 
> View attachment 1456717
> 
> View attachment 1456718
> 
> View attachment 1456719
> 
> View attachment 1456720
> 
> View attachment 1456721
> 
> View attachment 1456722
> 
> View attachment 1456723
> 
> View attachment 1456724



Did the Merkels come in other colors than orange and this olive drab green shown above?


----------



## fordmike65

biker said:


> Did the Merkels come in other colors than orange and this olive drab green shown above?












						Anyone here own a Miami / Flying Merkel Bicycle? | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/194972/




					thecabe.com
				









"Enameled in either black, blue ,red, orange or khaki".


----------



## Bullits

Here is a Flying Merkel that I bought 6 or so years ago at a Mecum auction. I believe that John Parham of the National Motorcycle Museum had 7 of them built by Felt because of his love for Flying Merkel motorcycles...Cheers Brian


----------



## New Mexico Brant

It seems this catalog ad resolves the mystery of who made the Sur-Plus pedals.  I believe we can now firmly say these were Miami produced.   Look closely at the inscription on the axle barrel.


----------



## New Mexico Brant

Anyone here get this pinback?  Just sold on Ebay.  Posting for future reference:


----------



## biker

New England decal.


----------



## biker

Did Miami make these New England bicycles?


----------



## SKPC

Sprocket seems not Miami but I would guess yours may be a Shelby-built Grady NE-badged using a _Davis frame_ from their remaining inventory post-purchase by Shelby.  Boy that's a guess for sure.  Not sure if Miami supplied them but for sure Shelby did. Can we see the whole bike, fork and the serial number on the BB?
   The examples and evidence that Shelby built some of the Grady & Co contracted bikes in the teens through the early 30's?..Yours may be one close to the time when Shelby bought out Davis in 1924/5?








						1915 J. W. Grady New Englander | Sell - Trade: Complete Bicycles
					

A 1915 or so J W Grady New Englander full bike all original parts except perhaps the tires. Original skip tooth chain crank new departure model C rear coaster hub. Original 28 inch wheels.  The bike has original patina and has not been refurbished at all the seat is actually almost perfect. The...




					thecabe.com
				












						G.W. Grady New England Motobike: Who built this frame? | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

As posted in this week’s show-and-tell, I just bought this teens/twenties period "New England" badged bike.  Please help me out with identification of the frame builder.  G.W. Grady was known to be both a bicycle jobber and a manufacturer as well.  Any thoughts?




					thecabe.com


----------



## BatWaves

biker said:


> Did Miami make these New England bicycles?
> 
> View attachment 1502449



That sprocket was used on this Schwinn World… frame looks very similar too…


----------



## Archie Sturmer

biker said:


> New England decal.





biker said:


> Did Miami make *these* New England _*bicycles*_?



These bicycles is plural, so I guess that the pictures might be from separate bikes(?).

The earlier post has a picture of what looks like an Excelsior Michigan City crankset; through all the dirt, it looks like a fairly nominal offset distance to the drive pin, within one of the six points, and not in between.  Or it could be just the dirt?

The later post we may have seen in the dark before, and the frame looks like an Emblem Angola; but for the chain ring sprocket, it is hard to see the drive pin location.  Almost looks way-out there in the first dark picture.
Like the Excelsior, an Emblem six point star chain ring sprocket would also have the drive pin within one of the six points, and not in between, but with an approximate 2” c-c offset.








						Miami Built New England | Stuff on eBay, Craigslist, Facebook etc.
					

Couldn't find the thread for this one--still at $5!  https://www.proxibid.com/Estate-Personal-Property/Personal-Property/Bicycle-Frame-England-Made-in-Worcester-Mass/lotInformation/64193146#topoflot




					thecabe.com
				



And it looks like there is a spare six-points crankset in the background of the first of the dark pictures.


----------



## New Mexico Brant

Hopefully we can get this thread back on track.  Isn’t there a couple Excelsior threads somewhere?!  1914 Merkel double bar ad:


----------



## Archie Sturmer

New Mexico Brant said:


> Hopefully we can get this thread back on track.
> Isn’t there a couple Excelsior threads *somewhere else*?!
> 1914 Merkel double bar ad:



Yes, we should remember to relegate those "*what-is-it*" questions to their other threads; and then only after confirmation (sometimes due to more better pictures) provide a link, and perhaps a single (more better) picture.

For example, @shoe3 once provided a nice 1911 Simmons catalog when (1910-1912?) the hardware store sold Miami-made cycles; (looks a lot like the 1914 double bar frame above).








						1911 Simmons Hardware cool bikes | Antique Bicycles Pre-1933
					

Simmons are tight bicycles. 1911 sweet.




					thecabe.com
				






It helps link other 3700-series catalog page numbers to that same year (e.g., when pages are sold individually online, or posted elsewhere on this site).


----------



## SKPC

Regarding the 5-spoke chainring possibly used by Miami on the FM's.  The 1918 and 19 ads show a Flying Merkel with the 5-spoke design but is hard to make out.   _My questions are:  W_ere there two types of 5-spoke rings Miami used?  One appears to have a later Westfield ladies look with the "bump" and one has the straight-sided design. Can anyone clear up which one is shown in the Advertising for the _Flying Merkel?


_
Two below from_ this thread _earlier...






I came across one with 2" drive pin spacing sprocket that fits both the Miami and Emblem cranks with 2" drive pin spacing and unique cranks.   The 2nd question is WHO provided Miami and Emblem this hardware since it seems only these two manufacturers used this design?


----------



## Freqman1

SKPC said:


> Regarding the 5-spoke chainring possibly used by Miami on the FM's.  The 1918 and 19 ads show a Flying Merkel with the 5-spoke design but is hard to make out.   _My questions are:  W_ere there two types of 5-spoke rings Miami used?  One appears to have a later Westfield ladies look with the "bump" and one has the straight-sided design. Can anyone clear up which one is shown in the Advertising for the _Flying Merkel?
> View attachment 1507272_
> Two below from_ this thread _earlier...
> View attachment 1507273
> View attachment 1507274
> I came across one with 2" drive pin spacing sprocket that fits both the Miami and Emblem cranks with 2" drive pin spacing and unique cranks.   The 2nd question is WHO provided Miami and Emblem this hardware since it seems only these two manufacturers used this design?
> View attachment 1507276



I could be wrong but the ad you show doesn't depict a FM bicycle. I also don't believe the FM used a chain ring like you show. V/r Shawn


----------



## Archie Sturmer

Just for clarification, the *1919* ad shows 4 product lines above 6 bicycle models, and probably should not be interpreted as only showing 3 Racycles (left) & 3 FM’s (right)?
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/a...ing-merkel-bicycle.48591/page-86#post-1323542


----------



## Freqman1

Archie Sturmer said:


> Just for clarification, the *1919* ad shows 4 product lines above 6 bicycle models, and probably should not be interpreted as only showing 3 Racycles (left) & 3 FM’s (right)?
> https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/a...ing-merkel-bicycle.48591/page-86#post-1323542



Correct. The ad only identifies two bikes by brand, a Racycle and a Hudson. V/r Shawn


----------



## SKPC

Thank you Mr. Sweeny for the clarification, I was somewhat confused.  The 2nd question is still open.  It appears that Merkels run both the two-piece crank/chainring setups (non D&J) with the 2" drive pin spacing on_ some_ crank/ring setups and shorter spacing on others with a variety of rings.  You had mentioned the Merkel-specific chainrings in your earlier post with some outstanding questions about them.   And were they made In-house or did they have a connection to the Emblem crank hardware supplier?


----------



## Freqman1

SKPC said:


> Thank you Mr. Sweeny for the clarification, I was somewhat confused.  The 2nd question is still open.  It appears that Merkels run both the two-piece crank/chainring setups (non D&J) with the 2" drive pin spacing on_ some_ crank/ring setups and shorter spacing on others with a variety of rings.  You had mentioned the Merkel-specific chainrings in your earlier post with some outstanding questions about them.   And were they made In-house or did they have a connection to the Emblem crank hardware supplier?
> View attachment 1507529



This pic is a made from two different ads and I suspect the 1918 pic is a non FM Miami product. I believe about 1916 Miami started making the D&J under license in-house but it really doesn't call out the chain ring mfr. I'm sure tucked away in some trade journal is the answer to this question. V/r Shawn


----------



## Archie Sturmer

There is a D&J thread and other posts about the D&J hanger rights moving from Bean & Chamberlain Chicago to Hudson Michigan and after a severe flood, to Miami.


----------



## catfish




----------



## SKPC

@Freqman1  So you are saying these 5-spoke rings were not on FM's?  Still confused as to your answer simply because of the below posts!

This below from post # 503 @fordsnake post...
_"Again, no metal badge on this 1919 Flying Merkel, it appears to be a decal on the head tube!"_






_Need more information please! @hoofhearted    Could you clarify? Regarding your #380 pg 38, & #405 pg 41 posts in terms of the 5-spoke ring?  Were you intimating (not sure one has surfaced yet) that the 5-spoke rings may have been on Merkels?

And from Post #502, pg. 51_
"Confused? Yeah I know, I'm just following the bread crumbs (your previous submission #380). Remember Miami Cycles admitted their 1919 models were 1918 models…they didn't have to time to make changes due to the war restrictions.




Last edited: Jan 30, 2016


     And some interesting posts deep in the thread begs the big question. _WHAT did the "center drive" actually refer to_. A  Westfield style DD or a 2" drive arm pin offset?   If the *"the pull is between the bearings" *as referred to, could it be the crankcase bearings and the pedal bearings, the "puller" being the pin?
Lastly re: 2" drive pin spacing. Below 28t shows Miami made theirs. Emblems?



*1923*


----------



## Freqman1

SKPC said:


> @Freqman1  So you are saying these 5-spoke rings were not on FM's?  Still confused as to your answer simply because of the below posts!
> 
> This below from post # 503 @fordsnake post...
> _"Again, no metal badge on this 1919 Flying Merkel, it appears to be a decal on the head tube!"_
> View attachment 1510331
> 
> 
> 
> _Need more information please! @hoofhearted    Could you clarify? Regarding your #380 pg 38, & #405 pg 41 posts in terms of the 5-spoke ring?  Were you intimating (not sure one has surfaced yet) that the 5-spoke rings may have been on Merkels?
> 
> And from Post #502, pg. 51_
> "Confused? Yeah I know, I'm just following the bread crumbs (your previous submission #380). Remember Miami Cycles admitted their 1919 models were 1918 models…they didn't have to time to make changes due to the war restrictions.
> 
> View attachment 1510350
> Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
> 
> 
> And some interesting posts deep in the thread begs the big question. _WHAT did the "center drive" actually refer to_. A  Westfield style DD or a 2" drive arm pin offset?   If the *"the pull is between the bearings" *as referred to, could it be the crankcase bearings and the pedal bearings, the "puller" being the pin?
> View attachment 1510335
> *1923*
> View attachment 1510336



Yep I believe if you look at those pics Carlton cropped them from the Miami ad shown previously. No where in that ad does it identify these bikes as FM. V/r Shawn


----------



## SKPC

This was confusing to me no doubt. It was shown over and over again on a few pages saying "Flying Merkel".  But again, on page 56 #554 post by @barracuda here we go again!
#554, pg 565.
"And I think they used a "five spoke" ring like this:




"The "five spoke" goes back at least to 1919:







> Freqman1 said:
> 8. Even though 1913 literature shows down tube decals on the side I've yet to see any examples of real bikes decaled as such. I have noticed this with the Racycle literature as well and think maybe for the sake of illustrative purposes the catalogs depicted the decals on the side of the tubes but production models only had them on the top side of the down tube?




"It seems the positioning of the down tube decals is inconsistent at best. The one on my bike is sort of in a three-quarters position, with the swash underscore directly positioned on the center of the side of the tube."
Should I go to _Miami Chainring Minutia _to discuss?  It is FM related...any other takers on this?


----------



## Freqman1

SKPC said:


> This was confusing to me no doubt. It was shown over and over again on a few pages saying "Flying Merkel".  But again, on page 56 #554 post by @barracuda here we go again!
> #554, pg 565.
> "And I think they used a "five spoke" ring like this:
> 
> View attachment 1510371
> "The "five spoke" goes back at least to 1919:
> View attachment 1510372
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "It seems the positioning of the down tube decals is inconsistent at best. The one on my bike is sort of in a three-quarters position, with the swash underscore directly positioned on the center of the side of the tube."
> Should I go to _Miami Chainring Minutia _to discuss?  It is FM related...any other takers on this?



I have copies of the’15,16,17, & 21 FM cats and no models have that chain ring. I would say find a definitive FM ad showing that chain ring and the question would be answered. V/r Shawn


----------



## SKPC

Ok, so the @New Mexico Brant question he also had about them on page 78 remains unanswered?
"Shawn,
In your post #595 (in this thread) you have a more complete list of rings; the _five spoke_ is mentioned in you FM article but not illustrated. For clarification, does the _five spoke_ show up in the Miami product line, but to date there is no print evidence they were used on the "Flying Merkel?" Here is your an excerpt (and image) from you post number 595"  (pg 60)
       Your answer to Brant's question was "I'll take a look tonight, I am on the road" but then never came back to it specifically.  The skippy you referenced is a  26-tooth?..



I am just as confused as ever and feel like I am driving down the "center" of the road!


And this tidbit from the 1921 advertising regarding what the "Center Drive Crank" "did"....hmmmm.......


----------



## SKPC

The 1923 literature also refers to the "Center Drive One Piece Crank Hanger".



^^^What does the above mean by "Center Drive" one piece hanger?  * What *is the "extra driving power" being "driven" "by", the *drive pin*? Or, is it a *human *riding the bike?  Maybe it's the_ sprocket *the hanger* is driving_, or in other words, _*the hanger* driving the sprocket with *the 2" spaced drive pin*_*?*
And then this 1916 ad below....could it be referring to the same thing,  "The One-Piece Flying Merkel Hanger" from 1916? Is it the same as the "center drive" nomenclature?   Look at the drive pin spacing below Shawn.  Forged one piece crank with 2" drive pin spacing,  "centered" between the inside and outside of the ring?
"The one piece Crank with the sprocket (teeth) between the bearings".... This is my question.  What does this mean?  A very slippery pig.




One question for all the experts....What is a "Center Drive Hanger"? And then what Shawn, do you refer to below as a "Center Drive Ring"?
.
Shawns' observations:  "I show the 1" pitch ring as being used by FM in 28 and 30 tooth but not 26. Also 24T but as a C_enter Drive Ring which would look different due to the way it mounts_. Also would this (be the) same pattern used for the 1/2" pitch ring?"   V/r Shawn


----------



## Freqman1

I can't remember whether I spoke to Brant about that or not but I have not seen that ring in any FM literature. Not sure what the center drive hanger has to do with the chain ring? V/r Shawn


----------



## SKPC

What I am speculating is that the* "Center Drive Hanger"* is actually the 2" drive pin spacing crankset made by them?.  I mean no disrespect, just want to clear it up.  Otherwise moving forward is meaningless.  The Merkel literature (IMO) is showing the* CDH* as early as the 1916 Merkel while not quite calling it that specifically? Continued until the sale of Miami during the depression post 1923. The 2" offset is still mentioned in the above Merkel ad: .  @Freqman1   You are as of today correct though in your statement that there is no "evidence" in the lit or in a survivor bike that other rings besides your examples were used on the Merkels.

      I quote you below if I may....from page 600 discussing D&J "offset cranks or BB shells"
_     " Carlton,  Thanks for the pic of the chain ring. I would think that ring was used from 1912-1914. The reason I say this is if you look at the '15 cat it mentions a new hanger made under the D&J patent but obviously different from the hanger you show. Interestingly the '15 catalog also says that spring fork is exclusive to the top model --404 I think which is the same frame as the Miami Bulldog (curved seat post). Going off the top-of-my-head here so I'll edit tonight if needed. It does not list this fork as an option on any other model nor does it allude to its availability as an a la carte item. I'll post the exact language later of the catalog talking about non-standard configurations but it is confusing--at least to me.
     Regarding the offset hangers; earlier in this thread it is postulated that these were motorbike only. I disagree with this because I believe the *"center drive"* was introduced in 1920 on all models except the ladies and juvenile models which used the standard crank and sweetheart rings. I believe only two chain rings used with the center drive were the circle of "F"s and the 24T sweetheart on the Racer model.
     So the obvious question here is were any other Miami machines equipped with the center drive hangers? If so a bare frame with a bottle cap opening would not necessarily indicate a FM."_
V/r Shawn
And your post #591, page 60.

"I'll answer my own question now that I have more literature. It appears Miami used D&J hangers until 1915 when they started producing their own crank hangers under the D&J patent. Later they produced their own proprietary cranks and hangers."   V/r Shawn
Good stuff here...how long?

Is this the one you are speaking of below?  If so, could it be the often used term....."Center Drive Hanger"? Again, I respectfully ask for those experts to weigh in and look forward to the discussion..



Shawn, did the Ladies/Juvi Merkels in 23 with 24t Sweetheart ring have the 2" spacing?


----------



## SKPC

A couple other mentions....below is a 26-tooth, non-2" drive pin spaced _Miami _ring...(when?) with traditional spacing. Not FM? Certainly a D&J (Miami)-made ring knowing that Miami was involved with D&J pre-1910 up until 1923 and understanding this drive pin location.


  And the 2" drive, 26t ring that I am speculating is a "Center Drive Sprocket"(wrong again!) ring below from a forged. one piece, oversized-cone crank arm seen on Emblems, Miami's, Pierces and maybe a few others. D&J?  The crank below is Emblem.  It is what I call THE "suspicious ring" shown in the not clear advertising that could some day be on a FM!



And this Miami machine's ring from an earlier post... (*not* known if specifically FM)....



  And this oddball found on an early 20's_ Shelby Cycle Frame Builders_ machine. What is that extra bump in the ring for, a 2"-spaced drive pin drilling?  Certainly Emblem nor Miami would have supplied these rings  undrilled to others in the business. (*if *Miami was making them) Or, they came from the Miami inventory sold to Westfield & maybe_ others?_  This ring was on my mid-20's Shelby Cycle Frame Builders bike & perhaps came on the bike.  Coincidence maybe.  In 23-25, it was a rough economic time and failed bike companies like Miami & Davis sold their remaining equipment and inventories that had to have been re-used, not melted down....



But WAIT!   Look below.  All the inventory is gone!   Or was it?  (the westfield made Miamis want to know.......


----------



## redline1968

Well I don't know if this will answer your question but I'm looking at my flying Merkel project..  I noticed the hanger is offset with the frame.. perhaps to center the chain ring  with the rear brake hub cog..


----------



## SKPC

Again, what do you mean by "hanger"?   In the Miami FM lit I posted, it refers to the "ONE PIECE HANGER" and shows the one piece arms.  So I see this as referring to the_ crank_, _*not* _the _BB shell_*.  *.I think this is why so much confusion remains...let's clear this up.
    EDIT:  Well this does!!  It was discussed at length early and I missed it three times!. Shawn keeps pointing out that other Merkel specific Arms and Rings that were used and the proof of them is still missing.  So it seems then that the _2" drive pin spacing_(and maybe other spacing?) on the early one-piece D&J _crank arm_ assemblies (_arms/rings)_ used on the Merkels as well as the other Miami models (all?) were provided up until 1916 by D&J.. After 1916, they appear to be made in-house (no mention of the rings though)      These in-house cranksets with 2" spacing appear to have been used on MIAMI rigs up until the all new Center Drive in 1921 below.     _Apologize for thinking out loud all.  It seems not all Merkel rings were 2" drive pin spaced using the one-piece crank arms?_


----------



## SKPC

.Getting myself back on track.....
Freqman/Barracuda......
      "Ok I've been hitting it hard in trying to get the Merkel article together. The subject of chain rings seems to be a fairly large/complex subject. Below is a list of the rings I think were used for the Flying Merkel from 1912-1923.
Solid center clover leaf 26T
Solid center cloverleaf 28T
Cut out Cloverleaf 28T
Cut out Cloverleaf 30T
Cut out Cloverleaf 48T
Cut out Cloverleaf 60T
Star 30T
Star 60T
Five spoke 28?T
Five Spoke 60T
Circle of "F"s 28T (center drive)
Sweetheart 28T?

Other questions:
From the thread it says 1917 was the last year for the 60T Star chain ring yet some say the 1/2 drive stops in 1916 for the Merkel?
_Were any chain rings besides the Circle of "F"s on a *'center drive' *crank (offset bottom bracket)
Were any of these chain rings tied to specific models?_
V/r Shawn

This is a great question by Freqman knowing ALL 1923 models(sans womens/juvi) came with the "Center Drive Hanger" with no mention of the rings..


----------



## barracuda

redline1968 said:


> Well I don't know if this will answer your question but I'm looking at my flying Merkel project..  I noticed the hanger is offset with the frame.. perhaps to center the chain ring  with the rear brake hub cog..



I think this is  correct, the CDH resides exclusively iin the  offset BBs of the later, early 20s Merkels.


----------



## redline1968

Yesss I'm actually smarts ..😮 at somethin...lol


barracuda said:


> I think this is  correct, the CDH resides exclusively iin the  offset BBs of the later, early 20s Merkels.
> 
> View attachment 1510729


----------



## SKPC

Uh oh!  Presenting the _1921* Miami Flying Merkel*  Racer_ Model.  _.Center Drive_ cranks and the proprietary 24t ("sweetheart") centerdrive ring in two colors. Well the ring may not actually be a sweetie(as prev. thought), but who would notice? Prefer the lettered ring. It probably rides the same way in Orange or Blue, with the 24t "Lettered" or "KB" as I believe it has been called. The often seen SH, 1"-pitch rings after Miami were everywhere. The "other rings" Merkel may have used. Will this 26t ring and maybe the "other rings", including the 5-spoke seen in the old ads be the next to surface?  Ride your FM and be a winner! @dnc1 your kind of rig.


----------



## SKPC

Is the FF center drive chain ring  in 21-23 exclusive to "Flying Merkels"?  Is the FS-1 model a lesser model?




Is this not a "Flying Merkel" catalog?



Would you think all the cycles in this catalog are NOT Merkels?
Or, could some or all of them be Merkels?  IDK....


----------



## Freqman1

SKPC said:


> View attachment 1511545



Busier than a one legged man in an azz kick’n contest right now. As soon as I get a little free time I’ll go through this and provide my thoughts. V/r Shawn


----------



## SKPC

Thank you Shawn...you are da man...
@barracuda * Your quote....*.


> redline1968 said:
> Well I don't know if this will answer your question but I'm looking at my flying Merkel project.. I noticed the hanger is offset with the frame.. perhaps to center the chain ring with the rear brake hub cog..



_*""I think this is correct, the CDH resides* exclusively* in the offset BBs of the later, early 20s Merkels.""*_
Or, in other words, ALL MERKELS in 21-23 had the Offset crankset hanger and Center Drive assembly?
Are you sure about this?  Or, did everyone blow by this statement?  Question the unquestionable....




And, you never followed up with your suspicions! (waaay back when discussing the 2" drive pin spacing) It just went undiscussed and ignored for too long.  It is important because this is key I believe in understanding the evolution of the Miami's and specifically Merkels.   My interest in the 2" spacing goes way back as ASturmer knows.   So many variants need to be vetted that are not.  Understanding the drivetrain battles that were going on then in the legal arena @fordsnake also forced me to look elsewhere for info and ask why the battle?...Miami drivetrains?  2" spacing?  Non-2"? Cones oversized?  Why...


----------



## barracuda

SKPC said:


> *Your quote....*.
> 
> _*""I think this is correct, the CDH resides* exclusively* in the offset BBs of the later, early 20s Merkels.""*_
> Or, in other words, ALL MERKELS in 21-23 had the Offset crankset hanger and Center Drive assembly?
> Are you sure about this?



Lord, no. I'm not sure there's anything in this life I'm sure about, and assuredly not within the arcanum of Flying Merkel production, especially in the early '20s. And no, I meant I think the CDH can _only_ be found on frames with offset BBs, a rather obvious observation. I have yet to see a posted example of an offset BB on a Merkel before the introduction of the metal badge. But it wouldn't surprise me if one arises - as has been noted many times before, production consistency was always seemingly less a focus in the factory than variety and innovation. The teens era FM and non-Merkel early 1920s Miamis I have had my hands on have all had standard, frame centered BBs. As have any  and all ladies frames I have seen posted. But catalog or no catalogue, a single definitive answer to some Miami questions just may not be entirely possible. The fun is in the chase.

Regarding the cones, I have also noticed the seeming impossibility of interchanging Miami widths and threadings with other manufacturers, to the point that I purchased a variety of crank assemblies in hopes of a match, including a Black Beauty that seemed promising. But no. The only match I ever found was, finally, another Miami crankset of the unembellished 5 arm type you referenced upthread.


----------



## redline1968

Mines pre badged decaled and it's offset hangar..I think it's teens.. awsome I'll check my badged model now and see. Post a pic of it too


----------



## redline1968

Thanks I'll take credit where credit is due..i'm glad I figured it out.. 😁 I measured mine it's approx  7/8 one side and 5/8 on the other side for the decal.. dido for the blue badge...😶


----------



## SKPC

1st., I hope I did not sever any toes here. My diatribe was necessary for me to_ confirm _what I was speculating on. Too much evidence I clearly saw as unvetted had to be called out. The cricket appeared as a challenge for all of us to think about it.   Just trying to help, that's all.   Some last thoughts on* Miami/Merkel*. If not for those determined historians, curious fact finders and preservationists here starting with Fordsnake, none of this comes out.  His historic bicycle interest and wealth of knowledge is deep and truly golden.  Because of this and his links, this issue would still have been dead in the water .  No matter what I _may have _found that could narrow some stuff down, much is missing.  Freqman is (fast fwd) the questioned expert and should have been pushing back, only relying on absolute proof to make an absolut-est statement. Only an intact bike hidden from idiots can insure you can make one.  We all tend to get stuck in the weeds regarding these bikes demanding this and that, relying on expert opinion: hoping we're right all the time. Then we all just move along because we have other more important stuff to do. Another possible Merkel moto just passed us by. Did you notice the drivetrain?  Drivetrains like that should not be buried.  _Sir Patric_, thanks for the ride! You conducted this grueling thread with masterful patience as usual and I enjoyed every single word.    You are something else!   Much more documentation of the actual hardware will open closed doors.



This badge made me thank the Native American Culture for their patience with our inability to look up or think clearly.


----------



## redline1968

Sorry for the Almighty Miami gods praise thee where they shall know everything and others shall  flee


----------



## SKPC

@barracuda @redline1968



Above an incredibly beautiful* Flying Merkel Truss Frame *in* Blue* with the_ Orange _option. Comes std. with the High Performance Center Drive assembly.  Optional (?)"Lettered" ring or "KB-d" ring for gents.  No longer a misunderstood "one piece hanger" "assembly" that Miami made at their pinnacle IMO. .....Merkel or otherwise.   It is simply a  "Center Drive" crankset assembly of the coolest design(look familiar?) requiring a wide frame BB housing(shell)(hanger) offset to the right allowing drive assembly clearance. Two ring styles right? But wait!  What "is" a "Lettered Ring"?  This CD assembly is remarkable, but it is NOT a Center Drive "one piece hanger" as mentioned in the Miami advertising, but an assembly with *many *pieces.  False advertising that points to another interesting question is also in plain sight.  It was supposed to "eliminate a two or three piece crank and "several" parts.  Hmmm....lawyers guns and money.
2" pin spacing? Super drive?     Center Drive arms. There is a drive pin you know on a center drive arm.  Does anyone see it?  Brant saw it.  He has one with a "Lettered" Center Drive ring with "R"'s.  Miami still used the std. width frame shells but offered all the gents models the option to run both of them? Certainly the "R" we can understand..... Wow.   Now this is a bike I would love to ride and know you both would as well!! wbdyrt
Long Live The Cabe


----------



## SKPC

So here we go ....look at the above rig.   Another *"Center Drive"*, offset BB-"hangered" frame in a Truss style.   Flying Merkel 100%? What is the badge?  Sure has those FFFFF rings. Sure seems like it and the image came from the same batch of watercolors  I found & watermarked..  Or, you may prefer an early Merkel Truss bike (1916) below with a 24?/_26? tooth, regular spaced drive pin,"*diamond faced*, tempered in oil_ sweetheart Miami-made universal(or is it?) "crankset"  running in a standard bottom bracket frame shell for a little less coin....feeling special?  I love this ring....SEE RING Top of prev. page!!!



.Who cares if one face of the arm is shaped like a diamond and the other side of the arms are round?  It doesn't matter that you have gold in hand, it's not a Merkel!   Hmmm,..lets see was that "Moto" or was the word "Merkel" we be talking about? Damn James, I am so confused about these "hangers".  What in the hell were they thinking? A simple 5-spoke ring secured to the 2" drive pin spaced Miami made crank arm. A hand worked piece of american steel carefully forged and tempered in oil that everyone blew right by. over and over again.  Like the one below in 1916. "Sorry, not Merkel", throw it out. Besides, it also has the pesky (frustrating)weird drive pin hole and stupid oversized cones. Look over there, forgetaboutit. Many Cabers just blew it off...



.


----------



## Freqman1

SKPC said:


> What I am speculating is that the* "Center Drive Hanger"* is actually the 2" drive pin spacing crankset made by them?.  I mean no disrespect, just want to clear it up.  Otherwise moving forward is meaningless.  The Merkel literature (IMO) is showing the* CDH* as early as the 1916 Merkel while not quite calling it that specifically? Continued until the sale of Miami during the depression post 1923. The 2" offset is still mentioned in the above Merkel ad: .  @Freqman1   You are as of today correct though in your statement that there is no "evidence" in the lit or in a survivor bike that other rings besides your examples were used on the Merkels.
> 
> I quote you below if I may....from page 600 discussing D&J "offset cranks or BB shells"
> _     " Carlton,  Thanks for the pic of the chain ring. I would think that ring was used from 1912-1914. The reason I say this is if you look at the '15 cat it mentions a new hanger made under the D&J patent but obviously different from the hanger you show. Interestingly the '15 catalog also says that spring fork is exclusive to the top model --404 I think which is the same frame as the Miami Bulldog (curved seat post). Going off the top-of-my-head here so I'll edit tonight if needed. It does not list this fork as an option on any other model nor does it allude to its availability as an a la carte item. I'll post the exact language later of the catalog talking about non-standard configurations but it is confusing--at least to me.
> Regarding the offset hangers; earlier in this thread it is postulated that these were motorbike only. I disagree with this because I believe the *"center drive"* was introduced in 1920 on all models except the ladies and juvenile models which used the standard crank and sweetheart rings. I believe only two chain rings used with the center drive were the circle of "F"s and the 24T sweetheart on the Racer model.
> So the obvious question here is were any other Miami machines equipped with the center drive hangers? If so a bare frame with a bottle cap opening would not necessarily indicate a FM."_
> V/r Shawn
> And your post #591, page 60.
> 
> "I'll answer my own question now that I have more literature. It appears Miami used D&J hangers until 1915 when they started producing their own crank hangers under the D&J patent. Later they produced their own proprietary cranks and hangers."   V/r Shawn
> Good stuff here...how long?
> 
> Is this the one you are speaking of below?  If so, could it be the often used term....."Center Drive Hanger"? Again, I respectfully ask for those experts to weigh in and look forward to the discussion..
> View attachment 1510686
> Shawn, did the Ladies/Juvi Merkels in 23 with 24t Sweetheart ring have the 2" spacing?



I'll go through the last couple of pages of this thread today and try to answer your questions. But, first, have you read this https://thecabe.com/articles/the-flying-merkel-bicycle/  As you can see my subtitle is "An Evolving Study". I claim to be an expert on nothing but I do try to learn as much as I can about some things including FMs. I keep notes and save pics and will update the article when I have enough significantly different info to warrant it. Like a lot of bicycle history much of it is lost to time and the population of original FMs isn't enough to draw conclusions from in many cases. 

What I will say is that Miami with both the FM and Racycle lines did do things to set these brands apart from their other brands e.g. Hudson, Miami, Crimson Flyer, etc... . Clouding the issue on the '23 and later bikes is exactly when Westfield took over production. Certainly some of these transitional Westfield bikes may have used Miami frames but other components will be strictly Westfield. 
V/r Shawn


----------



## biker

biker said:


> Did Miami make these New England bicycles?
> 
> View attachment 1502449
> 
> View attachment 1502450
> 
> View attachment 1502451



Thanks Ingomike for confirming the New England bicycle I had posted in my pictures is a Miami built bike. Also the frame looks very similar to the Miami made 1916 FM Roadster.


----------



## SKPC

*Page 41*  where I realized that *"All Miami's have THICK chain stay bridges"*..*.*_*Page 38 *_where we all blew past it...
Patricks thoughts.......
*"Back to your questions, *now. Look, you have an almost-clean canvas.  Lose the New England badge and you will have a _completely-clean _canvas.
Please consider doing this as a Miami ......Not a Racycle, as these take special cranksets. Not a Hudson as these take
D. & J. cranksets (mostly). Not a Merkel, as these take specific chainrings. Let me say that I do agree with Krautwaggen to a point ... a dis-restoration option _"is a bit fake"_ ... but no more fake than the application of new paint in correct colors ... as a _restoration_. The only thing that is not fake is that which is original. Personally, I can see a dis-restoration in the case of your Miami ... you could use your brightwork as-is. And, ace, after speaking with you at MLC in the Spring ... i remember how much you like '_character_' in a bicycle. Me, too.
_BREATHE DEEP ..._
Now let's consider that archbar frame. The earliest Miami-Built Archbar Frame I have seen is from a late 1914 article showing a 1915 Miami model ... below. The 1915 Model Archbar has a small, visible, bridge between the top-bar and the archbar.  I do not know if Miami was using the Hercules Head, in 1915 (like on your machine) ... my thoughts are that they were not. But please do not trust my thoughts. Do some research. This includes Miami badge options ... color .. and chainring options for a Miami ... that will fit your particular frame. Right now you are running a 26-T, Four-Circle. Other 26-T ring designs were also used.
_*"Gentle readers ... I got no way to help you escape the heat of this way-kool-ass machine ... got no control ..*_
_*but, just for grins ... peep the lack of doglegs in the chainstays ..*_*.*
Please, I would hope we all refrain from "liking" or not liking the prev. 78 pages of discovery after the fact.Pete


----------



## Archie Sturmer

Freqman1 said:


> I'll  try to answer your questions. But, ....
> V/r Shawn



If you can explain the questions too, in short sentences for the simple folk (people), and separate monographs (paragraphs) for separate topics, that would be great!


----------



## Freqman1

Some of this is kind of difficult for me to follow as far as the exact question being asked. If you are looking for FM specific info I would direct folks to start with this article https://thecabe.com/articles/the-flying-merkel-bicycle/

Regarding the one piece crank hanger; from the literature it appears to me Miami used D&J cranks prior to 1916 and then, likely under license, made these in-house. You are correct--no mention of who made the rings. Did Miami make their own rings or did they farm these out to be made exclusively for them?

The center drive hanger is a completely different animal and you show a couple pics. This arrangement requires a special ring and the '21 cat shows bikes with both flavors of cranks. I have never seen a '22 or '23 cat. I purposely stayed away from the Westfield FMs because they are not Miami made.

V/r Shawn


----------



## SKPC

Uh huh.  Hypocrates, father of medicine: "There are those who know and those who believe they know". We have all heard it.
Great link to some real information you missed earlier on!!  Thank you Pierce for the honor of commenting..thank you.








						Trailblazer, let's see how this develops. | Project Rides
					

It is starting with this.  (more to come) circa 1927 Hawthorne Trailblazer.    needs serious cleaning, a bit of metal fill on the chain stays, see how it looks after cleaning it, may just shoot a clear matte over what is left of the paint.  I have a set of mud guards to use on it, probably use a...




					thecabe.com


----------



## Freqman1

SKPC said:


> View attachment 1512528
> @barracuda @redline1968
> View attachment 1512529
> Above an incredibly beautiful* Flying Merkel Truss Frame *in* Blue* with the_ Orange _option. Comes std. with the High Performance Center Drive assembly.  Optional (?)"Lettered" ring or "KB-d" ring for gents.  No longer a misunderstood "one piece hanger" "assembly" that Miami made at their pinnacle IMO. .....Merkel or otherwise.   It is simply a  "Center Drive" crankset assembly of the coolest design(look familiar?) requiring a wide frame BB housing(shell)(hanger) offset to the right allowing drive assembly clearance. Two ring styles right? But wait!  What "is" a "Lettered Ring"?  This CD assembly is remarkable, but it is NOT a Center Drive "one piece hanger" as mentioned in the Miami advertising, but an assembly with *many *pieces.  False advertising that points to another interesting question is also in plain sight.  It was supposed to "eliminate a two or three piece crank and "several" parts.  Hmmm....lawyers guns and money.
> 2" pin spacing? Super drive?     Center Drive arms. There is a drive pin you know on a center drive arm.  Does anyone see it?  Brant saw it.  He has one with a "Lettered" Center Drive ring with "R"'s.  Miami still used the std. width frame shells but offered all the gents models the option to run both of them? Certainly the "R" we can understand..... Wow.   Now this is a bike I would love to ride and know you both would as well!! wbdyrt
> Long Live The Cabe



I


SKPC said:


> Uh huh.  Hypocrates: "There are those who know and those who believe they know".  Ever heard that one?
> Great link to some real information you misled us earlier on but who cares?  Thank you Pierce for the honor of commenting..thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trailblazer, let's see how this develops. | Project Rides
> 
> 
> It is starting with this.  (more to come) circa 1927 Hawthorne Trailblazer.    needs serious cleaning, a bit of metal fill on the chain stays, see how it looks after cleaning it, may just shoot a clear matte over what is left of the paint.  I have a set of mud guards to use on it, probably use a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thecabe.com



ok I’m lost here. I have had a hard time making out whether you are asking a question or postulating. Just ask the question simple and provide a clear pic of what you are asking about. V/r Shawn


----------



## SKPC

Fordsnakes unfinished post pg 16 you never followed up on.  You were not wondering.


----------



## barracuda

Courtesy National Motorcycle Museum, Anamosa, Iowa


----------



## Freqman1

Trying to sift through your post for questions is challenging to say the least. So are the questions being asked "what is a center drive?" and "what is a lettered chainring?" Again, if you would just ask a straightforward question without all the clutter it would be a lot easier to answer-help me help you.

Center drive and 'lettered' chain ring




The only 'lettered' rings I'm aware of that Miami made were the FM circle of "F"s and the Racycle circle of "R"s. V/r Shawn


----------



## barracuda

Freqman1 said:


> The only 'lettered' rings I'm aware of that Miami made were the FM circle of "F"s and the Racycle circle of "R"s. V/r Shawn



Are those rivets on the inner ring/collar, or can it come apart? I'd like to see a 24 tooth clover-type CDH ring like that on the FS3 in the catalog, or a Merkel racer of any kind, really.

I suspect production numbers of the early 20's may have been quite low, considering the dire financial straits haunting Miami MFG at that time.


----------



## SKPC

Shawn._ Did you notice what was being referred to_ in this obvious clue specifically (do not look at the ring)
Does it mention specifically anything about this ONE RING that is stuck on it or are you still stuck?


----------



## Freqman1

SKPC said:


> Fordsnakes post page 16 I think you never followed up on.  You're the expert shawn.
> View attachment 1513064
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1513048



Again, is there a question here?


----------



## Freqman1

SKPC said:


> Shawn. Did you notice what was being referred to in this obvious clue specifically (do not look at the ring)
> View attachment 1513083



That is referring to a one piece crank


----------



## Freqman1

Uncle--I'm out!


----------



## cr250mark

Were Flying Merkels typically sold with a front or rear basket ? Hmm
Mark


----------



## Freqman1

cr250mark said:


> Were Flying Merkels typically sold with a front or rear basket ?
> Mark



Not that I'm aware of. I don't see any in the literature. V/r Shawn


----------



## bentwoody66

cr250mark said:


> Were Flying Merkels typically sold with a front or rear basket ? Hmm
> Mark



I believe that Miami had a special delivery bike that may have had one?


----------



## New Mexico Brant

bentwoody66 said:


> I believe that Miami had a special delivery bike that may have had one?



The Miami Carryall, as offered in 1910, and possibly other years as well.


----------



## Freqman1

New Mexico Brant said:


> The Miami Carryall, as offered in 1910, and possibly other years as well.
> 
> View attachment 1521017



Yep but no FMs that I’m aware of. V/r Shawn


----------



## cr250mark

New Mexico Brant said:


> The Miami Carryall, as offered in 1910, and possibly other years as well.
> 
> View attachment 1521017



Great piece of solid literature , thanks Brant


----------



## 47jchiggins

Does anyone have any history on this badge, three holes ?
Thanks


----------



## Relic Racing

American Vintage Bicycle Supply said:


> Someone tell me about this badge.



Looks like what‘s on the bicycle, I just purchased. It’s a wooden wheeled model posted while asking a Hercules tire size question. It’s under the Classic Balloon Tire category.


----------



## catfish

47jchiggins said:


> Does anyone have any history on this badge, three holes ?
> Thanks
> 
> View attachment 1544475



When Westfield bought out Miami MFG, they got all the remaining Miami parts. Westfield used the parts at their Westfield plant to make bikes. Westfield was not set up or familiar with the Miami Bottle Cap style of badge mounting. So they drilled hole and used screws. The way they were use too.  I've seen this on several bicycles.


----------



## bentwoody66

Great photo of a 1916 or 17 Miami made Arrow in the wild. Note the Miami band coaster brake on the rear


----------



## Mercian

Hi,

the photo itself was probably taken in 1922, or after, when the 'Hinkey-Dee' was written for a popular dance.






Best Regards,

Adrian


----------



## hoofhearted

*Horse Power Boost*

Ken,  i can delete this -- your wish is my command .....

p.


----------



## tripple3

Funny to me; lines from past,
"your wish is my command" pretty sure is Jeannie.
"As you wish", really meant "I Love You" is Wesley & Dread Pirate Roberts...
and "3" Wishes is from the Genie of Aladdin's Lamp.
And Jiminy Cricket sings, "When You Wish upon a STAR, makes no difference Who You are."
Patric @hoofhearted posting was the lure to be here.😎


----------



## bentwoody66

Mercian said:


> Hi,
> 
> the photo itself was probably taken in 1922, or after, when the 'Hinkey-Dee' was written for a popular dance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Adrian



I tried to find this exact show and couldnt find any references to the performers listed.


----------



## bentwoody66

hoofhearted said:


> *Horse Power Boost*
> 
> Ken,  i can delete this -- your wish is my command .....
> 
> p.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1573704



I really like it when you add the extra "oooomph" to these old photos Patric


----------



## bentwoody66

Here is the back side of the Arrow postcard/photo


----------



## Freqman1

bentwoody66 said:


> Great photo of a 1916 or 17 Miami made Arrow in the wild. Note the Miami band coaster brake on the rear
> 
> View attachment 1573623



Does anyone have one of these brakes? I don't believe I've yet to see one. V/r Shawn


----------



## Kato

Based on info from others here is my Miami built Standard.
Not sure of the year - striking out on any type brochure etc type info.


----------



## Mercian

Hi @Kato 

If the brake is original (and, of course, it could have been changed long ago), the patent for it is dated July 16, 1907.













Best Regards,

Adrian


----------



## New Mexico Brant

Courtesy of Walt A:


----------



## New Mexico Brant

Unusual spring fork Racycle:
Previously owned by Mel Short: current whereabouts unknown.  Photo credits, unrestored image by Mel, restored by: Larkin Little.


----------



## New Mexico Brant

What the heck!! A Miami Special Motorbike Seatpost!  Great stuff, thanks Jesse.  More things in the world to search for.  Image courtesy of @Jesse McCauley


----------



## bentwoody66

New-found Racycle cabinet card circa 1900, I'm guessing on the age.


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## New Mexico Brant

Killer Flying Merkel swag just arrived in time for the swap season!  Greg Merkel is the great grandson of Joseph Merkel and has created these offerings and more.  Everything is high quality, the all wool ball cap is actually manufactured in the good ol’USA!  Visit www.flyingmerkelinc.com
Shipping is cheap and fast; prices are very fair, plus you are supporting a gent trying to preserve his family legacy.


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## hoofhearted




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## lgrinnings

Okay Miami mind trust, I'm looking for some info on what I believe is a Maimi motobike carcass. So I'm guessing the front fender is a replacement and the rear is original. The cranks and chainring look possibly Excelsior, but the frame and fork look Miami to me. Fender bridges are beefy as all get up. Bottom bracket is offset. There's a hole for a bottlecap badge. The fork truss braces appear to be Miami along with the small fender mount bolt placement on the front of the fork crown. Serial number is 13344 with an H below (Hudson, Hawthorne, ???). I'm wondering the basics: What year? What might it have been badged? What parts appear to be original? and anything else you'd like to add of course.

As always, you have my sincere thanks.

-Lester


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## SKPC

👆😎


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## bentwoody66

Lester, your frame is 100% Miami, I'll even go as far as saying it has a center drive crank hanger. My guess would be a bottle cap Merkel. I dont think the cranks or fork are correct unless.........this was used post buyout by Columbia. If I had it it would be a Flying Merkel all the way.


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## catfish




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## Dave Stromberger

A fresh one from Central Washington State!

24" double bar frame, 70 tooth "Racycle" chainring with special crank, since Racycles have the outboard bearings but this does not. Rear sprocket has 28 teeth.  Seat is a bit strange, the model stamped into it says "Troxel Eagle Diamond", yet the Diamond saddles shown in advertising don't have the deluxe spring chassis like this.  Tires are gray United States on steel lined wood clinchers. 

It fairly closely matches the one shown in the 1913 Spokane Cycle Supply catalog, but with the Racycle chainring. I suppose it could be a 1913?


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## Goldenindian

Wow….Hands-down one of the coolest teens wood rim bicycles I’ve ever seen! An amazing find. Thanks for sharing the pictures.


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## Archie Sturmer

Looks like a Corbin Duplex coaster brake hub.


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## Dave Stromberger

Archie Sturmer said:


> Looks like a Corbin Duplex coaster brake hub.



Yes, Model 8. I would have expected it to have a Musselman Armless.


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## Dave Stromberger

Another headtube decal pic, showing it's metallic'ness and detail a little better.


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## Rusty72

Amazing bike. Thanks for sharing.


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## geosbike

wow dave, that is bad ass


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## New Mexico Brant

Don’t be a quitter!  Help others quit! 1901 Advertisement:


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## dasberger

New Mexico Brant said:


> Don’t be a quitter!  Help others quit! 1901 Advertisement:
> 
> View attachment 1730334



So true eh Brant? Please excuse the brief interlude...  Doc J... GOAT


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## New Mexico Brant

Repost from a General section thread (where good posts go to be lost to time), credit to @piercer_99 .  Can someone please explain the DOGTAIL coming off the rear fender??  @hoofhearted ?  🙆‍♂️ 🦴🐶



For a second I thought it was "Baby Girl" after her post-op surgery.


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## piercer_99

as @New Mexico Brant  likes these old advertisements, and this one is in keeping with this thread.

1916 Miami ad.


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## New Mexico Brant

piercer_99 said:


> as @New Mexico Brant  likes these old advertisements, and this one is in keeping with this thread.
> 
> 1916 Miami ad.
> View attachment 1754491



Wow!  Look at those crazy squarish bars on the top bicycle!


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## piercer_99

1914


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## piercer_99

New Mexico Brant said:


> Wow!  Look at those crazy squarish bars on the top bicycle!


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## Jesse McCauley

New Mexico Brant said:


> Wow!  Look at those crazy squarish bars on the top bicycle!



I hadn't considered turning this set down but it does have a pretty cool look.


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## cyclingday

Torrington advertised a set of bars like that for riding in amongst cars in city traffic.
But, I can’t imagine there was much Gridlock back in those days?
Most of the various bends were designed with a purpose in mind.
So, what would be the purpose of such a narrow handlebar back then?


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## Jon Olson

Shoulder width of rider?


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## cr250mark

piercer_99 said:


> 1914
> View attachment 1754504



I’d like to see a model # associated with this
Ad .
My Model 152 shows up catalouged as 1910 with correct color scheme but fenderless bicycle advertisement shown . Originally seller thought it to be 1914 but haven’t seen anything to prove it . Mud guards may simply been optional and not shown .
Sorry for getting sidetracked of Merkel topic


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## Wilfredo

New Mexico Brant said:


> Repost from a General section thread (where good posts go to be lost to time), credit to @piercer_99 .  Can someone please explain the DOGTAIL coming off the rear fender?? @hoofhearted ?  🙆‍♂️ 🦴🐶
> View attachment 1754483
> For a second I thought it was "Baby Girl" after her post-op surgery.


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## Cdollar4




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