# Columbia Chainless Hubs



## highwheel431 (Dec 11, 2012)

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I am working on expanding the Columbia Chainless Identification document that was initially started by Walt Handlos many years ago and has been put on the internet by First Flight Bicycles. I am currently working though all the hub combinations. The Columbia catalogs are confusing at times to say the least, so I need some help. I need pictures of your Columbia Chainless bicycle hubs. If you know that your hubs are original to your bike I need pictures for every year from 1900 through 1922. I need to be able to see the flanges and the style of any coaster brakes with there stampings if possible. The front and rear may have different style flanges. Please identify model number and year if possible. Send pictures to highwheel431@att.net if posting on the board is to difficult.

Thanks
Ross


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## sm2501 (Dec 20, 2012)

Sounds like a fun (and challenging) project. Keep us updated!


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## Gary Mc (Dec 20, 2012)

Ross,

I started a thread here on the CABE called "Corbin & New Departure Hub Dating Project - Need everyone's help pre-1933" that may be of some help to you in your endeavor.  There is some Columbia documentation and pictures posted in the thread.  Posts #1 & #3 are updated with all new findings.  Here's what I have on Columbia's so far:

*Pope-New Departure Rear Coaster Brake Hubs:*
1898 Columbia, New Departure Controller brake , Posts #88 & 179
1899 Columbia Coaster Brake ??? Corbin/New Departure Automatic Coaster & Brake Post #219 & 240
1900 Columbia Brake is NOT New Departure. Post #236 (hub to tire brake)
1901 Columbia Coaster Brake eventually assigned to New Departure Mfg. in 1913, Post #238

The thread is at:

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showth...-Dating-Project-Need-everyone-s-help-pre-1933

I am very interested in your project and will enjoy following along and help where I can.  Thanks.

Gary Mc


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## highwheel431 (Dec 29, 2012)

*Where are all the Columbia chainless bicycles*

I know that many members of this site have Columbia chainless bicycles.  I can't accurately update the identification of all the models without your help.  I need pictures of your bikes.

Thanks

Ross


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## MrColumbia (Dec 31, 2012)

Here is the rear hub on my 1904 Model 138 Chainless Men's 2 speed.


















More to follow


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## MrColumbia (Dec 31, 2012)

Here is the rear hub from my 1914 Model 405 Ladies Chainless.


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## MrColumbia (Dec 31, 2012)

This is the rear hub on my 1921 Men's Model M1 Chainless. It was restored but is the original hub.


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## dfa242 (Dec 31, 2012)

Here's the one on my 1899 Model 60 ladies chainless.


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## highwheel431 (Dec 31, 2012)

*Thanks*

Thank you Ken and dfa242.  

The Corbin coaster is first described as such by the Columbia catalogs in 1911 and was a Model 8.  Ken's bikes show that this was the same model through 1921.  However I have seen a 1911 with the 1910 and earlier hub so they where using up the old inventory.

Ken what front hubs do you have?  The fronts become a real mishmash of parts as it appears that "Jacob's" ball seat spoked hubs were being used up on chainless production.

dfa242, your bike should have the "porcupine" style front hub.  If that is true I don't need any pictures.  However your bike is an 1899 ABC bike and not a Pope so changes might have occurred.  The "Columbia", "ABC", "Pope" coaster brake was available from 1901-1910. 1901-1906 should be with ball end spokes. 1907 through 1910 had standard flanged hubs like your pictures.  So now what does that make your bike? ABC did a lot of unusual things.  If the hub was ball spoked it might have been an 1899 that was sold in 1901 or '02.  I think it is a bit of a stretch to say that Pope in '07 was still selling 1899 bikes (Pope took over ABC/ACM in 1904).  So the next question is your bike correctly badged?  1899 was a one year only frame and can be easily Id .  The seat tube diameter is 1 1/4" and the seat post clamp is an internal expanding nut.  No pinch nut through the seat stays.


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## highwheel431 (Dec 31, 2012)

*Markings*

dfa242

Can you detect any markings on the face of the coaster brake like the "Pope" marking on Ken's hub?

Thanks

Ross


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## MrColumbia (Dec 31, 2012)

Ross
 The 1921 came with a Jacobs Hub (ball end spokes) on the front. The 1914 has a large flange hub with the keyhole type spoke holes. It also has an oil boss. The spokes are tied and soldered. There is no markings that I can find on the hub. The 1904 has a small flange hub (one piece machined) with a slight taper in the center. It also has a oiler hole in the center. This one does not have any markings I can find either.


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## dfa242 (Jan 1, 2013)

Hi Ross,
I wasn't able to find any markings on the coaster brake.  Here are pics showing the front hub as well as the top of the seat post, which does appear to match your description of the 1899 frame, measuring 1 1/4 inches in diameter.
Always interesting to hear analysis from someone with in-depth knowledge like yours.
Thanks,
Dean


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## dfa242 (Jan 1, 2013)

Hi Ken,
I noticed on your website that 1898 is the first mention of a chainless model - have you ever seen one from that year?
Thanks,
Dean


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## highwheel431 (Jan 1, 2013)

*1898 Columbia Chainless*

Dean,

1898 was the first production year for the Columbia chainless.  It must have had some major issues with the crank design as it was only used that year.  The basic system designed for 1899 was used until 1922 with only a small modification.  Each of the first three years of production had unique frame designs with the design being basically fixed from 1901 on.  Other then League none of the major manufacturers were making chainless bikes before 1898.

Ross


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## Gary Mc (Jan 1, 2013)

highwheel431 said:


> dfa242, your bike should have the "porcupine" style front hub.  If that is true I don't need any pictures.  However your bike is an 1899 ABC bike and not a Pope so changes might have occurred.  The "Columbia", "ABC", "Pope" coaster brake was available from 1901-1910. 1901-1906 should be with ball end spokes. 1907 through 1910 had standard flanged hubs like your pictures.  So now what does that make your bike? ABC did a lot of unusual things.  If the hub was ball spoked it might have been an 1899 that was sold in 1901 or '02.  I think it is a bit of a stretch to say that Pope in '07 was still selling 1899 bikes (Pope took over ABC/ACM in 1904).  So the next question is your bike correctly badged?  1899 was a one year only frame and can be easily Id .  The seat tube diameter is 1 1/4" and the seat post clamp is an internal expanding nut.  No pinch nut through the seat stays.




Ross,

From my hub research, I believe Dean's 1899 rear hub is a P.&F. Corbin "New Departure Automatic Coaster & Brake"" ND designed model and I believe it is associated with:

Patent #691,541
Inventor: C. Glover (later became President of Corbin Screw Corp.)
Assignor: P.&F. Corbin
Filed: June 11, 1901
Granted: June 21, 1902

You can throw the dates out on all these patents as they were often filed later and always granted later/much later. I suspect this is the P.&F. Corbin redesign of the "New Departure Automatic Coaster & Brake" that P.&F. Corbin did in 1899 making alterations to the Townsend patent version in order to sell their own version. They continued to call it the same name. The question is who made it, did they license Pope to make their own or did Corbin make it. I say this only because I do not see the usual stampings of P.&F. Corbin on it. *If I am correct I notice the coaster brake arm side spokes attach much higher than the drive side requiring longer spokes on the drive side, this is a feature I've only noted on this model. *


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## pelletman (Jan 1, 2013)

dfa242 said:


> Hi Ken,
> I noticed on your website that 1898 is the first mention of a chainless model - have you ever seen one from that year?
> Thanks,
> Dean




We have a few from 98 Dean.  They are out there...


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## pelletman (Jan 1, 2013)

Oh, I can tell you guys are gonna love each other.....!



Gary Mc said:


> Ross,
> 
> From my hub research, I believe Dean's 1899 rear hub is a P.&F. Corbin "New Departure Automatic Coaster & Brake"" ND designed model and I believe it is associated with:
> 
> ...


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## dfa242 (Jan 2, 2013)

Thanks for all the great info guys - lots to learn.


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## highwheel431 (Jan 2, 2013)

*No Coaster brake on 1899 Columbia Chainless*

Gary,

If you can believe the Columbia catalogs, a coaster brake was not available on the 1899 Columbia chainless.  A coaster brake was available on some of the chain drives.  Also all the Columbia bikes in 1898 and 1899 used direct pull spokes with the "porcupine" hubs.  So it is most likely that someone update Dean's 1899 over a hundred years ago with a coaster brake.  

Ross


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## olderthandirt (Jan 10, 2013)

*1899 chainless Columbia no 59*

My 1899 gear drive Columbia has a spoon that fly's up to rub the rear tire when you back pedal a bit .i hope to ride it this coming summer ,i am building a front wheel with a drum brake to actually stop the bike with but will keep the factory front wheel and yes the 3x spokes are soldered ,i purchased the bike from Nate Pence last year and i am looking for a decent pair of period correct pedals


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## pelletman (Jan 11, 2013)

olderthandirt said:


> My 1899 gear drive Columbia has a spoon that fly's up to rub the rear tire when you back pedal a bit .i hope to ride it this coming summer ,i am building a front wheel with a drum brake to actually stop the bike with but will keep the factory front wheel and yes the 3x spokes are soldered ,i purchased the bike from Nate Pence last year and i am looking for a decent pair of period correct pedals




I believe that bike would have Columbia script pedals originally


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## highwheel431 (Jan 11, 2013)

*Hartford Tire Coaster Brake*

olderthandirt

Your brake is known as a "Hartford Tire Coaster Brake".  Per the catalogs it was available in 1900 through 1902.  The hub of the 1900 & 1901 used ball end spokes and the 1902 used a standard flanged style hub.  1899 was a year that Pope over manufactured and many '99 bikes were sold by ABC in later years with updates installed.  So it will be impossible to tell if the rear wheel was installed as an update by a dealer or was updated by the factory.  It is easy to determine if your bike is an 1899 or later.  The 1899 was a one year only frame. 
The main tube diameters should be 1 1/4".  Your front wheel for a 1899 should have a "porcupine" style hub that uses direct pull spokes. See picture
Ball end spokes were used on front hubs from 1900 through 1922 on various models.

The pedals on the 1899 were also a one year only model.  see picture.


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## fat tire trader (Jan 23, 2013)

Here is one of my hubs. Can anyone identify it?







Thanks,
Chris


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## highwheel431 (Jan 24, 2013)

*Columbia Shaft Drive Coaster Brake*

Depending on the year this hub had different names:

1901 - Columbia Coaster
1902 & 1903 - ABC Coaster
1904 through 1910 - Pope Coaster

There may be stamping on the round face of the brake arm.  I have seen Pope stamped in this location. 

Starting in 1911 they used the Corbin Model 8.

Do you know the model or year of your bike?

Ross


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## fat tire trader (Jan 24, 2013)

Hi Ross,
I don't see any stamp on the hub. This hub came with an incomplete Cushion Frame Columbia. Do you know how to disassemble the hub?
Thanks,
Chris


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## highwheel431 (Jan 25, 2013)

*Coaster Brake*

Chris,

Sorry, but I have never taken one of these apart.

Ross


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## Girozoazn (May 27, 2013)

Hi Everyone,
Chain driven bicycles completely avoid the mess and noise of a typical bike chain by using a direct shaft drive system.... These bikes still have gears and all the features of a regular bike, but as an added bonus they have a lower maintenance requirement and much less potential mess and work.... It is a great technology that hasn't caught on like chains.


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## WheelmanGeorge (Apr 5, 2014)

*Hartford Tire Coaster Brake Hub in Columbia Shaft Drive Bicycle*



highwheel431 said:


> olderthandirt
> 
> Your brake is known as a "Hartford Tire Coaster Brake".  Per the catalogs it was available in 1900 through 1902.  The hub of the 1900 & 1901 used ball end spokes and the 1902 used a standard flanged style hub.  1899 was a year that Pope over manufactured and many '99 bikes were sold by ABC in later years with updates installed.  So it will be impossible to tell if the rear wheel was installed as an update by a dealer or was updated by the factory.  It is easy to determine if your bike is an 1899 or later.  The 1899 was a one year only frame.
> The main tube diameters should be 1 1/4".  Your front wheel for a 1899 should have a "porcupine" style hub that uses direct pull spokes. See picture
> ...




Can you direct me to detail drawings to aid in removal of a Hartford Tire Coaster Brake hub from a Columbia Shaft Drive bicycle? WheelmanGeorge or GWGPhila@aol.com


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## highwheel431 (Apr 6, 2014)

*PM*

George I sent you a PM in response to your request


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## olderthandirt (Apr 7, 2014)

*1900 ball end spokes on front and rear wheels*

my old bike must be a 1900 columbia ,its got ball end spokes on both wheels .


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## olderthandirt (Apr 7, 2014)

*ball end spokes ,still looking*

anyone have extra ball end spokes ? i'll be your huckleberry !


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## highwheel431 (Apr 7, 2014)

*Ball End Spokes*

The Columbia chainless models used ball end spokes from 1900 through 1913 on rear hubs and all the way through to the end of production in 1922 on front hubs.  This data is from the catalogs and varied by year and model, interspersed with flanged hubs.  Many bikes to keep them running got changed out to flanged hubs.  So you cannot date a bike just because it has ball end spokes.


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