# Autocycle off to the races on eBay



## squeedals

From $500........to over $5000 in a few hours.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schwinn-Aut...468?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c608a8b9c


   Don


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## Dave K

That make two complete nice original prewar Cantilever Autocycles on ebay at the same time.   Don't know if that has ever happen before.


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## meteor

*What a JERK!*

I'm glad that greedy/cheap "bike shop guy" ain't getting it.


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## sm2501

meteor said:


> I'm glad that greedy/cheap "bike shop guy" ain't getting it.




You're assuming the greedy bike shop guy was in the know what the bike was. Most bike shop guys would just see that as another old bike.


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## slick

The bike shop guy was an idiot. Should have at least offered $2k and he still could have made a hefty profit. Even though I would have kept it. The father who originally owned it is probably going nuts that his old $40 when new bike is up to $6k now!!! So let's do a survey and guess where it stops. I say $8,500?


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## hzqw2l

*Awesome Bike*

If I hit the lottery it's mine

Just nice to see that bikes like this are still out there in the hinterland waiting to be discovered.

As for the bike shop guy.  Missed the buy of a lifetime.  Ever heard of google?


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## sm2501

slick said:


> The bike shop guy was an idiot. Should have at least offered $2k and he still could have made a hefty profit. Even though I would have kept it. The father who originally owned it is probably going nuts that his old $40 when new bike is up to $6k now!!! So let's do a survey and guess where it stops. I say $8,500?




Again, you are assuming the guy was knowledgable about old bikes. I am a bike shop guy, and I am in the know...but I can tell you out of the 50 plus employees that I have in the stores,  NONE of them would have any idea what its worth.


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## scrubbinrims

Love that bike and not surprised in the least at the early action.

I bought a schwinn motorbike in excellent, never sold condition (from the warehouse) from a bicycle store owner that was used as a display for 550.00, and it had a 200.00 rooster headlight on it to boot.
The owner was not a jerk, just a businessman dealing in new bicycles.
I have walked into many a bicycle store with help truing and old wheel, needing a chainbreaker that would work on skiptooths, or struck up a vintage bicycle conversation while dumpster diving for a box, and every time, the staff looks at me like I was an alien.
This hobby is smaller than those consumed in it realize (including myself).
Chris


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## GenuineRides

*It just amazes me at times*

I search and search every nook and cranny, and these things keep popping up under our noses.  Reminds me of a prewar '36 Rollfast that was on a local Craigslist listing last year, I saw it maybe 6 hours after it was listed, and it was already sold of course (and I think I know who got it), but what I found out later was the killer, it was one block from my home, maybe 200 yards away for who knows how long!  Now this one is really close by too, and I missed it again...I give up, so I'm stepping up to plate...GenuineRides


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## cyclingday

The whole shuckster story sounds a little too fabricated to me.
 I'm thinking this guy is a very savvy collector who's been around for awhile, and that bike didn't just get pulled out of the barn.
 I'm sure he's sitting back and having a good laugh at the way you guys are all debating whether or not the greedy bike shop guy should be flogged.

 But! It is a fabulous bike, and I'm sure it will find a nice new home, if this auction is legit. Call me the skeptic, but I'm kind of thinking it will get pulled long before one of us gets to pop the Champagne.


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## VintageSchwinn.com

DING!  DING!  DING!!!!

Marty, you just phrased my thoughts EXACTLY!!!  Something is very, very fishy about it.

I find it really strange that the first four pics were completely out of focus and looked like a child took them.  Then the seller adds more pics highlighting EVERY detail that a person who knows these bikes would have highlighted.  The "Average Joe" would NEVER know to photograph the shorty lever, for instance.  

I'm a skeptic by nature and by profession, and this one is REALLY odd.




cyclingday said:


> The whole shuckster story sounds a little too fabricated to me.
> I'm thinking this guy is a very savvy collector who's been around for awhile, and that bike didn't just get pulled out of the barn.
> I'm sure he's sitting back and having a good laugh at the way you guys are all debating whether or not the greedy bike shop guy should be flogged.
> 
> But! It is a fabulous bike, and I'm sure it will find a nice new home, if this auction is legit. Call me the skeptic, but I'm kind of thinking it will get pulled long before one of us gets to pop the Champagne.


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## scrubbinrims

*shuckster or saavy*

Does it make a difference?
A discerning schwinn collector will know what they are looking at and bid appropriately.
It's on the open market... will it bring more somehow if the origin is real (or if the seller is posing)?
In my opinion, a bike like this separates the men from the boys and it's about the item and nothing else.
Chris


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## SJ_BIKER

*hmm lets analyse...*

Those pictures highlight all the right angles.  Look at the speedo...ohh. wow the fender bomb...OMG the tank...the red reflector...the key...either this seller did his/her homework or we are all going for a ride.....at any rate ...I'm in....its a bad @ss ride sure to break records....stay tuned gents.


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## cyclingday

Let's see,
 La Crosse, Wisconsin?

 My guess is, that if the Cabes own Xcelsior J.Z. doesn't already know this guy. Then I'm sure, he's about to become real good friends with him.
 In fact, I'll bet this guy has awoken each morning to find J.Z. camping out in a sleeping bag on his front lawn.
 At the very least, know one knows what the real story is better than J.Z.

 So come on Xcelsior, What's up with this bike?


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## Xcelsior

*Bad ass bike*



VintageSchwinn.com said:


> DING!  DING!  DING!!!!
> 
> Marty, you just phrased my thoughts EXACTLY!!!  Something is very, very fishy about it.
> 
> I find it really strange that the first four pics were completely out of focus and looked like a child took them.  Then the seller adds more pics highlighting EVERY detail that a person who knows these bikes would have highlighted.  The "Average Joe" would NEVER know to photograph the shorty lever, for instance.
> 
> I'm a skeptic by nature and by profession, and this one is REALLY odd.




I got in contact with the seller locally over the phone and he told me he has had millions of questions about it and at least 30 requests for better pics.  I would assume that he would have known by previous information what to take photos of by all of the requests.  But then again, it looks like he already had the photos.  The funny thing is everyone sits here and criticizes him or reticules him and bashes him and without even knowing anything.  I found it kind of strange and a little disappointing that the other cantilever Autocycle was never questioned or criticized when that was listed by a certain somebody, bid up by the same somebody, pulled by the same somebody, then with a bogus story claiming he purchased the bike (from himself), drove to pick it up from this imaginary seller, and now has the bike relisted again with the same high bids as before.  Two bogus stories to boot! I don't know, I guess this is why we have so many problem trusting each other.  The all mighty dollar has played its hand and won again.  I was told that the black autocylce has had a great offer, one that I surely cannot match, and was most likely going to be sold.  Too bad I didnt at least get to see the thing first hand and in the flesh.  That alone would have been satisfying enough for me.  I got some "bogus" grandpa's farm story.


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## Xcelsior

*Money hungry*



cyclingday said:


> Let's see,
> La Crosse, Wisconsin?
> 
> My guess is, that if the Cabes own Xcelsior J.Z. doesn't already know this guy. Then I'm sure, he's about to become real good friends with him.
> In fact, I'll bet this guy has awoken each morning to find J.Z. camping out in a sleeping bag on his front lawn.
> At the very least, know one knows what the real story is better than J.Z.
> 
> So come on Xcelsior, What's up with this bike?




Sorry man, too rich for my blood!   And besides, I'm a straightbar motorbike kind of guy who has a soft spot for the rare and unusual.  Maybe a plain Jane dx every now and then too.


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## squeedals

The first thing I did was look at the sellers feedback........and how long they've been on eBay. I do that with all larger transactions........we don't have that here people.......we buy basically "blind" from each other with nothing much to go on.......other than how long we've been members and how many posts.......some other tell tale signs of trustworthiness......so it's always a risk no matter where you buy.......but eBay and PayPal have some safety features too that will get you some money back if you are not happy of you are a victim of fraud. 

Look at this auction as a price guide........that's how prices for antiques are based on...........AUCTION PRICES!

And no.......it's not my bike 

   Don


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## webbikes

*pretty sure it's a hoax...*

I've exchanged emails with him, suggesting he should post better pictures.  He said he's been offered 8500 and 10k, and "will most likely be pulling it off to sell other ways or hold on to it at this point..."  I think the guy knows what he has - and knew what he had when he listed it.  Bet the grandpa story is fabricated.  Still a killer bike, though...


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## cyclingday

The Kenny Hungus/Teddy Dingleballs 41 Super Deluxe Was so obvious, that it didn't warrant much discussion.
In fact, my first thought on this auction, Was that it was in retaliation for the bogus 41 auction.
Most listings like this are for exposure to generate off line offers.
It sounds like this is the case.


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## squeedals

webbikes said:


> I've exchanged emails with him, suggesting he should post better pictures.  He said he's been offered 8500 and 10k, and "will most likely be pulling it off to sell other ways or hold on to it at this point..."  I think the guy knows what he has - and knew what he had when he listed it.  Bet the grandpa story is fabricated.  Still a killer bike, though...




Hoax as in story? Or as in not a real product? Who cares about the story if the bike is real? As long as you get the bike in the end.

How many times have you bought a car privately.......and the seller says " driven only on Sundays by a little old lady".......

Dealers will tell you anything.

   Don


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## meteor

*Cynical!*

What a cynical bunch. There is absolutely nothing to suggest the "story" is bogus except cynicism.  Gee, a hundred ebayers contact him -- of course he knows what he has at that point.  Funny that everyone wants the barn find and then when it happens no one believes it.


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## scrubbinrims

*I'll bet a 12 pack this bike ain't going to auction end!*

If we could all agree as collectors that we would not approach seller in advance of ebay auction closure it would be such a wonderful world to live in.
HOWEVER, that will never happen as strong desires on the part of a potential buyer or ebay fees (and shipping) have a big effect on yanking.

Not long ago, I placed an early bid to mark an item and waited patiently to snipe an item in the end, but far to many bicycles droped down to the bottom of my watch list prematurely.
I actually had to change my way of thinking and strategy, reluctantly.
It sucks, but if I really want something, chances are someone else is also on the line trying to procure it by any means necessary.

So now I am part of the problem, or is it a problem because one never knows if an offer would settle on the high or low end of actual hammer price...and if both parties are happy with the transaction?
Of course there is the ebay side of it, so if anyone wants to defend the broker...

Chris


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## squeedals

One last addition........eBay is a two edge sword. On one hand, it has opened up and made bikes available to all collectors with an ease that was not there years ago. You had to rely on being lucky in finding a bike locally.On the other hand, it makes a quest for a certain bike very competitive and there is the chance of fraud. 

Also.......it has sparked interest in the hobby........as some see all that is out there. The good......the bad......

   Don


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## SJ_BIKER

*This so called grandson*

Well it figures...with the bad economy why not cash out when the buying is good?  Its the American way.  I love the soad and water comment followed by I hope that is OK.   And grandfathers supposed comment...He believes it may be collectable.......I wish I could be a fly on the wall to hear and see what really was said to grandpa.  If this story is true why isn't grandson trying to keep it so it can stay in the family....I say we put grandfather on the stand and find out his story from his mouth.   With that being said the seller has a few feedbacks considering he's been on ebay since 2002...and if I had 10000 bucks id happily Hand over my loot and open a bicycle museum and display it along with other gems....imagine charge to see it and still keep it.....man what a concept


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## SJ_BIKER

*This so called grandson*

Well it figures...with the bad economy why not cash out when the buying is good?  Its the American way.  I love the soad and water comment followed by I hope that is OK.   And grandfathers supposed comment...He believes it may be collectable.......I wish I could be a fly on the wall to hear and see what really was said to grandpa.  If this story is true why isn't grandson trying to keep it so it can stay in the family....I say we put grandfather on the stand and find out his story from his mouth.   With that being said the seller has a few feedbacks considering he's been on ebay since 2002...and if I had 10000 bucks id happily Hand over my loot and open a bicycle museum and display it along with other gems....imagine charge to see it and still keep it.....man what a concept


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## VintageSchwinn.com

"In fact, my first thought on this auction, Was that it was in retaliation for the bogus 41 auction."

That is what I thought as well and immediately contacted "Kenny Hungus."  Kenny thought it was a retaliation as well.  I tend to agree.

Maybe we're all a bit cynical and jaded, but how many times have we seen this over the past 15 years?  Seriously.

I actually HOPE it is "the real deal" as it keeps the fires burning out there that there still ARE bikes like this buried out there waiting to be uncovered.  That bike is easily worth the $10k he's been offered.  I think he's making a mistake if he takes it, I think it's worth more.


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## VintageSchwinn.com

And I quote......

"My father and I were talking and after all the response, questions and feedback we have received( good and bad) might just hold on to it and if we decide to sell it down the road, there is a local people we know who will help us sell it. Fees alone will be astronomical and we never would have guessed getting 10,000 offers from many different people. Thank you for your comment and response. Bill"

Damn, I was genuinely looking forward to see what it would fetch.


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## scrubbinrims

*Get yo money grandpa!*

I have no idea what the mention of the bogus autocycle auction was/is regarding...I am out of that circle...whatcha talking about?

It makes no sense to uncover a bicycle (even if it was yours), find out that that is is worth exponentially what you thought after a gentle cleansing, then put it back in the garage.
The guy should sell what he ain't using to buy a bass boat or something he could use.

It makes no sense to hold onto something that is appreciated only in value.

Chris


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## VintageSchwinn.com

Thus further making it sound like it's a bogus listing to begin with.  I think some collectors get "bored" or for some reason want attention about their bikes and post these goofy bogus listings.  I'm the opposite, I keep mine rather private, so I guess I just don't "get it."


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## SJ_BIKER

*yesss...*

yEAH BUDDY... Why ship it to take a chance that'll get jacked up in the shipping process.  Aside from the faded og. paint...it looks straight and solid.  Some one with their phone number should advise them to post pics on this site so us flyweights can study and dream at least for a while what this gem looks like before it gets stashed away for a long long time....thanks...


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## Bicycle Belle

Ok I'm a bit confused here. I still see the listing as active and cannot see any questions or answers. VintageSchwinn are you posting email conversations you've had with the seller?


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## VintageSchwinn.com

Not conversations, just the response I got when I asked if he was going to end it early or let it ride.


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## Talewinds

I won't even comment on the Ebay auction/ ethics side of things, other comments above mirror my sentiments anyway.

I have an innocent question about the bike and these $10k offers that have supposedly been received. I went back and reviewed the new photos as the first ones were awful and can clearly see now that it's not the double-duty fork. I would not have guessed this bike without that fork could approach $10k. What does the presence, or absence of said double-duty do to the value of such a bike???


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## cyclingday

At ten K, I don't think the addition of a double duty fork changes much.
It would generate even grater interst, so I suppose the price could climb a bit.
But, what got my juices flowing was the fact that the bike appears to be a late 39.
It does still have the short lever, but it almost looks like the later style fore brake. The Seiss lights are the later screw top, and It has the low rear fender brace, so I was wondering if it's possible that this bike is late enough to become a Super Deluxe with the addition of a rear drum brake?
It does look like a transitional bike, but with the grainy pictures , I really have no idea what I' looking at.


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## 37fleetwood

I talked to Jerry Jr. at Chestnut Hollow and he claims that the Brown/Brown bike used to be one of his...
why are some of the Schwinn guys so sleazy? how do you guys swim with these sharks? why are these bikes with such chequered pasts holding any kind of value? to me the validity of the entire bike is in question!


Xcelsior said:


> I got in contact with the seller locally over the phone and he told me he has had millions of questions about it and at least 30 requests for better pics.  I would assume that he would have known by previous information what to take photos of by all of the requests.  But then again, it looks like he already had the photos.  The funny thing is everyone sits here and criticizes him or reticules him and bashes him and without even knowing anything.  I found it kind of strange and a little disappointing that the other cantilever Autocycle was never questioned or criticized when that was listed by a certain somebody, bid up by the same somebody, pulled by the same somebody, then with a bogus story claiming he purchased the bike (from himself), drove to pick it up from this imaginary seller, and now has the bike relisted again with the same high bids as before.  Two bogus stories to boot! I don't know, I guess this is why we have so many problem trusting each other.  The all mighty dollar has played its hand and won again.  I was told that the black autocylce has had a great offer, one that I surely cannot match, and was most likely going to be sold.  Too bad I didnt at least get to see the thing first hand and in the flesh.  That alone would have been satisfying enough for me.  I got some "bogus" grandpa's farm story.


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## 37fleetwood

I'd say it's likely the photos are bad so you don't see that it's built from a pile of mixed parts with mis-matched patina...


cyclingday said:


> At ten K, I don't think the addition of a double duty fork changes much.
> It would generate even grater interst, so I suppose the price could climb a bit.
> But, what got my juices flowing was the fact that the bike appears to be a late 39.
> It does still have the short lever, but it almost looks like the later style fore brake. The Seiss lights are the later screw top, and It has the low rear fender brace, so I was wondering if it's possible that this bike is late enough to become a Super Deluxe with the addition of a rear drum brake?
> It does look like a transitional bike, but with the grainy pictures , I really have no idea what I' looking at.


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## DonChristie

Wow! 4 pages of you guys complaining about 2 of the most sought after Holy grails on fleabay. I think you are all mad cuz you want it but cant afford it.


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## 37fleetwood

I'd like to clarify 2 things,
first, Jerry Jr. said he owned the brown bike in the semi-distant past but sold it. a legitimate sale. my point is that that bike isn't a grandpa find, that's simply untrue.
second, most people know that these two bikes aren't even in my top 50 list. to me you might as well go to Wal-mart and buy one, they still make the same basic bike. no jealousy, just amazed at the dishonest dealing in our hobby. this borders on illegal. at least one of these bikes is being grossly mis-represented.


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## VintageSchwinn.com

I can't speak for everyone, but there are more than a few of us that can "afford" them....lol.  When you are considering dropping $10k on a bike, it's a bit different than spending $500 on a bike.  
If that bike IS all original (and in my opinion, it is), it is a quite unique and very valuable bike.  A DD fork would make it worth a bit more, but I agree, it wouldn't make or break a deal on it.  I just think it is a bogus story and that it's a bike collector "showing off" what he has is all.  I haven't seen the bike before, but I'm sure there's more unknowns out there than probably the known Canti Autocycles buried deep in collections.  My guess is the auction will end and the bike won't resurface again simply because it will be re-buried into the guy's collection.

I'm not sure who said it was pieced together or whatever they said regarding that, but I'm not sure what they're seeing.  It looks quite original to me.



schwinndoggy said:


> Wow! 4 pages of you guys complaining about 2 of the most sought after Holy grails on fleabay. I think you are all mad cuz you want it but cant afford it.


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## VintageSchwinn.com

What is being "grossly misrepresented" ???  Both bikes ARE what they are.  The goofy stories aren't representations of what the bikes are.  I'm not sure what you are looking at or what you are talking about.  If one is to consummate a sale on either bike and are delivered either bike to complete the sale, one now possesses the bike.  Where is the "gross misrepresentation" ????


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## 37fleetwood

I see your point, however it is a bit shady that the story is not in line with the truth.
it matters because I have seen convincing faux jobs on supposedly original bikes.
if the history is known on this bike what is the point of hiding it? why the grandpa stories? only reason I see for them is so that when the bike turns out to not be what it is purported to be, the seller can simply say, I'm not an expert, it was my grandpas bike and that's all I know. if however it turns out to be a collectors bike, then questions should be answered honestly and openly. if the bike has been "upgraded" it should be disclosed, if it has been put together from parts it should be disclosed.
there is a difference between an unmolested bike that was grandpas, and a bike from a collector that has been passed around for years, there just is.
there's something wrong here, honest people don't act this way.


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## 37fleetwood

...so the brown bike isn't really for sale?
if a joke I hope he sees this and has a great laugh!


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## Xcelsior

*Story telling*

Reminds me of another story that used to be told to help sell a bicycle.  And I don't know how it helps but... Remember the boy who went off to war and never came back.  His bicycle was preserved in the attic or basement and that is where the seller has now found it.  I have heard of this story being true on one particular situation as well as someone using this story in a false state to help sell their bike.  How does the story help sell anything?  Really?  Who cares!   The damn things are what they are and you buy them either because you like it or you want to be the top collector in the hobby.   Are you an expert or a professional?  Experts think they know it all and have to tell it where as professionals actually do know it all and don't need to tell it.  I myself just like having fun with what I like to collect and buy and there's no stories to be told.  Keep the peace brothas!


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## cyclingday

Well, it's official.
 The auction is over!

 I was fantasizing about owning that bike. Literally the stuff dreams are made of.
 At least my dreams anyway.  


 Boo Hoo!


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## dave the wave

*sounds like Sam Phaff*



cyclingday said:


> The whole shuckster story sounds a little too fabricated to me.
> I'm thinking this guy is a very savvy collector who's been around for awhile, and that bike didn't just get pulled out of the barn.
> I'm sure he's sitting back and having a good laugh at the way you guys are all debating whether or not the greedy bike shop guy should be flogged.
> 
> But! It is a fabulous bike, and I'm sure it will find a nice new home, if this auction is legit. Call me the skeptic, but I'm kind of thinking it will get pulled long before one of us gets to pop the Champagne.




sounds like its Sam Phaff selling a bike.


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## VintageSchwinn.com

Geographically he's there along with a couple others, none of which have a black canti Autocycle that I've heard of.  I think if Sam had one, it would genuinely be for sale, though.  I only know of two people with that bike on the East Coast and it isn't either of theirs.


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## 37fleetwood

37fleetwood said:


> ...so the brown bike isn't really for sale?
> if a joke I hope he sees this and has a great laugh!



um...so...it's the black bike that's not for sale? and the brown bike...
oh, and which bike was Grandpa's?


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## VintageSchwinn.com

The brown '41 is being sold by Ted Turner, it is legitimately for sale and a SUPER NICE bike.  The black '39 was the "questionable" grandpa's bike and seems to not have been a legit sale.  You would think if you were listing something that you believed was worth in the "$500 range" and someone offered you $10k, you would sell it, not stick it back in "grandpa's barn," but who knows, people are weirdos.


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## SJ_BIKER

*So what are Aerocycles fetching these days if these late autocycles command so much?*

Call me crazy but werent Aerocycles all the rage along with the 36 bluebird a decade ago?  What are those mid 30s balloon bikes fetching these days?  I remember a bluebird sold for 10000 a little over a decade ago.  Just curious as i know two people in the San Francisco area that have an Aerocycle...one is all stock and the other was restored.....I really like the big tank on the Aerocycles.....even if it wasnt all deluxed out...less is more


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## fordsnake

From what I can tell Ted Turner bought the brown bike from Kenny Hungus (it was Kenny's grandfathers) http://www.ebay.com/itm/1940-1941-schwinn-deluxe-bicycle-/160676326433#ht_500wt_1413 Ted posted the bike on ebay in a matter of days after buying it to make a quick flip (i guess he added the cantilever brake). 

Turner also admits to buying the bike from Kenny Hungus in the first paragraph. http://www.ebay.com/itm/330637447339#ht_500wt_1245

The black bike's back story was very similar to Kenny's http://www.ebay.com/itm/190598253468#ht_1625wt_1398


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## SJ_BIKER

*By the way...*

Im feeling a little robbed here....the horse took a nose dive and the jockey is floating dream like... hovering for a bit, but we know that doesnt happen so here we are still talking about this auction.  Its like a landing seconds away from the moons surface for the first time and someone pushes the eject button...like Santa coming down the hatch and hes yelling for help cuz hes stuck and its 6am in the morning....like the roadrunner finally getting caught by wile E coyote....theres just something wrong....i feel a bit robbed


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## scrubbinrims

At least we had a dialogue going on here from those in direct contact with the seller and assume it sold for 10K or so cash in hand.
Some bicycles, I am having to find outside of an ebay frenzy, this being one of them.
I wonder if grandpa is still eligible for his social security benefit?
Chris


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## 37fleetwood

fordsnake said:


> From what I can tell Ted Turner bought the brown bike from Kenny Hungus (it was Kenny's grandfathers) http://www.ebay.com/itm/1940-1941-schwinn-deluxe-bicycle-/160676326433#ht_500wt_1413 Ted posted the bike on ebay in a matter of days after buying it to make a quick flip (i guess he added the cantilever brake).
> 
> Turner also admits to buying the bike from Kenny Hungus in the first paragraph. http://www.ebay.com/itm/330637447339#ht_500wt_1245
> 
> The black bike's back story was very similar to Kenny's http://www.ebay.com/itm/190598253468#ht_1625wt_1398




what about the claim that the brown bike rolled through Chestnut Hollow 8 or so years ago. Jerry hesitated in saying that it was that bike absolutely but I got the impression that he only avoided saying it out of formality. he put it at 98% the one he had. he had it for many years before it sold, and it was one of their show stoppers, I'd assume he'd recognize it.

if true, let the Turner bike be a cautionary tale for Grandpa. he should never have ended the auction for an offer. I hope they see it go over what they sold it for days earlier.
Mr. Turner may be a decent guy but I wouldn't have had the balls to snatch a bike out the side of an ebay auction and re-list it so soon after! that's brash!


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## cyclingday

The seller of the black bike sent me back a reply, in which he said that they have decided not to sell the bike afterall. Gee, what a suprise!
He also said that they absolutely got bombarded with inqueries from the good,the bad, and the ugly. The ugly being laced with threats of bodily harm.
I told him that we are a strange bunch, and that a bike like that will bring out the best in us and the worst in us. Kind of like a cute little Seal in a tank full of Sharks.


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## SJ_BIKER

*Bodily harm?? WOW*

Dang they got threatened?  Whats wrong with that picture?  Well I kind of get it.  Some people get pissed off at me when i end a listing early ...barking at me when I refuse to give away parts on the bay.  I know people tell me well put a reserve on your stuff then.  Regardless...it doesn't warrant getting belittled or getting an earfull of ill feelings.  Mental illness is what it is I suppose.  There are bullies in real life and cyberbullies make sense when they are free to go at it in the comfort of their their home behind a screen.  Sad state of affairs right there.  oh by the way GO SHARKS!  Relax gents the San Jose Sharks (the hockey team brothers)


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## 37fleetwood

cyclingday said:


> The whole shuckster story sounds a little too fabricated to me.
> I'm thinking this guy is a very savvy collector who's been around for awhile, and that bike didn't just get pulled out of the barn.
> I'm sure he's sitting back and having a good laugh at the way you guys are all debating whether or not the greedy bike shop guy should be flogged.
> 
> But! It is a fabulous bike, and I'm sure it will find a nice new home, if this auction is legit. Call me the skeptic, but I'm kind of thinking it will get pulled long before one of us gets to pop the Champagne.




I don't know what you win... but YOU WIN!!!

so what have we learned?
don't trust prewar Schwinns or the guys who make up stories about them? maybe
the only protection against getting taken to the cleaners is a good education? maybe
there are enough decent and knowledgeable guys here that if you ask, we'll eventually get to the bottom of things? definitely!

Bravo Marty, you were the first to point out the truth. I now have a few new names to add to my list of people in the old bike hobby who cannot be trusted!


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## scrubbinrims

cyclingday said:


> The seller of the black bike sent me back a reply, in which he said that they have decided not to sell the bike afterall



I have not been skeptical surrounding the details of this sale being from a family or non-collector, it happens and I didn't see anything in the listing to deduce it was a just a front.
I am skeptical that he didn't sell it though.
Hard to believe the owner put it on ebay to sell because he thought it had value (or would have donated it to Goodwill otherwise), finds out is is a rare, extremely valuable item and withdraws to stow away when money is probably more important.
This is illogical, but logical that he won't draw as much criticism (and ebay recourse) from his premature ending if the story goes he decided to keep it...that is the front in my opinion.
Just sayin', Chris


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## GenuineRides

*re-evaluate?*

I'm really not surprised, not that I believe this auction is a front, but because when something shoots the moon this fast, and attracts as much attention, the seller may have become gun shy of all the conflicting value "help" from so called collectors, shop owners, and "experts".  No different than any other collectable vintage item out there, it could have been an early winchester rifle, some tiffany jewelry, a gold coin or even a signed Cy Young baseball, whatever.  When the market value escalates to multiple thousands I would personally step back, say whoa, and re-evaluate what venue to sell it in, or even if I want to sell after it was determined to be worth more than they probably ever imagined.  And how does he know it's not worth $20K to the right person or in a different venue?  How do we know?  They may be just protecting themselves.  We could see this pop up again later, or somewhere else, and more than likely it will end up in the hands of a well connected collector.  GenuineRides

BTW Kenny Hungus sounds remotely familiar to the German porn character Karl Hungus from the movie The Big Lebowski....just saying, maybe....


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## VintageSchwinn.com

Tedd's brown/tan '41 is listed currently on eBay and is at $6,600 and ends tomorrow.  That one is NOT a joke, it's a legit listing.





GenuineRides said:


> I'm really not surprised, not that I believe this auction is a front, but because when something shoots the moon this fast, and attracts as much attention, the seller may have become gun shy of all the conflicting value "help" from so called collectors, shop owners, and "experts".  No different than any other collectable vintage item out there, it could have been an early winchester rifle, some tiffany jewelry, a gold coin or even a signed Cy Young baseball, whatever.  When the market value escalates to multiple thousands I would personally step back, say whoa, and re-evaluate what venue to sell it in, or even if I want to sell after it was determined to be worth more than they probably ever imagined.  And how does he know it's not worth $20K to the right person or in a different venue?  How do we know?  They may be just protecting themselves.  We could see this pop up again later, or somewhere else, and more than likely it will end up in the hands of a well connected collector.  GenuineRides
> 
> BTW Kenny Hungus sounds remotely familiar to the German porn character Karl Hungus from the movie The Big Lebowski....just saying, maybe....


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## Rust_Trader

*Another nice one just listed*

Is this another joke?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MID-1930s-S...aultDomain_0&hash=item19ca984c04#ht_528wt_922

Really nice original looks complete


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## VintageSchwinn.com

That bike is actually 100 PERCENT LEGIT.  That guy shopped that bike around a bit last month.  I offered $6k for it as did a few others.  That "story" is true as far as I can tell.  It was the guy's dad's bike.  He knows somewhat what it is.  It was missing one of the Seiss lenses which had been inadvertently cracked over the years, he was looking for a replacement which he has apparently found.  The bike was quite a bit dirtier when I initially saw it, but he's cleaned it a bit.  That's a hell of an original bike.  I suspect it will go the distance as an auction, too.


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## 37fleetwood

VintageSchwinn.com said:


> You guys DO realize that there was a "joke listing" (Kenny Hungus) for the tan '41 and then a responsive "joke listing" for the black '39 Canti, right????  The first one was a joke, the second one was in response to that joke.  I don't know how funny the jokes are, but that's what they were.  Neither one of those auctions were going to go to completion.
> 
> Tedd's brown/tan '41 is listed currently on eBay and is at $6,600 and ends tomorrow.  That one is NOT a joke, it's a legit listing.




I *Did* know both auctions were bogus. I spoke to Jerry Peters about the Brown one right after it was listed. as for it being a joke, it sounds more like criminal fraud to me. the Hungus listing has established the bike as a legitimate barn find, indicating that it came as it now is. you and I both know that it has been through several collectors hands and parts have been changed, or added. Jerry Jr. himself said that the bike isn't exactly as he sold it. I'm not a Schwinn guy but It has been intimated to me that the speedo housing may not even be the correct one for that bike! whoever buys it better go into this with his hip boots on, this bike is about as much a barn find as my Aunt Petunia's dentures!

ok, let's recap:
the brown Autocycle is listed as Grandpa's bike and then pulled. it is re-listed by a collector who claims he got it from the original seller who's Grandpa owned the bike. in the mean time the black bike which is also someones Grandpa's bike is listed while the brown bike is still running, reinforcing the idea that this is somehow the normal course of events. both bikes make it to the $6000.00 area. the black bike is pulled off the market, just as the brown bike was, while people fight it out over the rather dubious brown bike, possibly not knowing that it has passed through everyone in the hobby! what then happens to the black bike? where will it pop up? or was it just used as a tool, a red herring?

here's the deal people, if it was a joke you list the brown bike and then pull it at the last minute and let everyone gnash their teeth in upset over paradise lost, not funny in my view but maybe a joke. there is another perspective however. list the bike as a false owner, (Grandpa) let the bike bid up to a rather high price, then pull the auction. re-list the bike. the expectation is that the bike bid up to $6,000 or so therefore the off ebay price must have been higher right. so the collector must think it's worth more than the guessed at off ebay price the collector paid right? and the collector must know what the thing is worth and that it's higher than...what? $7000,?...$8000?... what are we to believe the off ebay price was that the knowledgeable collector paid for this jewel? what are we expected to pay for it now? if this type of misrepresentation isn't openly illegal, it's certainly close. if Mr. Turner isn't aware how this looks maybe someone should tell him. maybe he should change the auction to reflect the terms of the joke and reveal the bike as a bike that has been in collector hands and has been modified over the years.

Ha ha ha, that was funny, now go back and make it right, and let the bidders in on the joke.


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## markivpedalpusher

Greens07 said:


> Is this another joke?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/MID-1930s-SCHWINN-AUTOCYCLE-/110773160964?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ca984c04#ht_528wt_922
> 
> Really nice original looks complete




This is a real deal auction

 The problem and long lasting repercussions with the joke/fraud auctions is the sellers running honest real auctions will suffer the fall out especially if the bicycle or part is a true barn find etc.  People will contact them, question there integrity and even harass them. If there is any message to be sent to the hobby just be honest and remember you are representing more then just yourself as an individual. Your actions can impact the rest of us.


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## slick

I think ebay just needs to set some type of law binding contract about ending auctions early period. If you need to revise something like you forgot the reserve fine. Other than that, let it run. Guys don't pull cars out of Barrett Jackson because they lost their ass on the restoration and didn't make squat on the car right? If you want the bike bad enough you will pay for it. End all the competiton of low ballers who are on there every minute of the day who see an ad and low ball the guy who doesn't know what the item is really worth, then they turn the item for 3 times that. I want my fair share at buying stuff is all i'm saying. If I get outbid, fine, that's all I can afford or that's all I think it's worth to me. Plain and simple.


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## squeedals

When I first started this thread, who would know the strange chain of events that followed this auction. Seems like this rare bike (real or not) stirs emotions like no other bike and can turn the ordinary collector into some other animal like Dr. Jekyll Mr. Hyde. Did you guys read the emails the seller got? He posted some. If he was indeed defrauding folks, then OK.....I guess........but God help the poor sucker who actually might have one of these and decides to sell it. Like the Hope Diamond in a way.........a blessing and a curse.

   Don


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## 37fleetwood

my point exactly, i"m not interested in this Schwinn, or any other Schwinn for that matter, but this impacts the whole hobby. you can't sell a bike anymore without the buyers wondering if they're getting scammed.
let's all just hope that Mr. Turner sticks to Schwinns only, I'd hate it if he started playing around in the Huffman market!


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## Talewinds

These auctions mentioned in this thread, although I'm not implying a direct similarity, remind me of what's been going on in the classic Ferrari market over the past several years..... It took a few years for the market to figure out what was going on but essentially it boils down to the the big concours events each year such as Pebble Beach, Amelia, Greenwich, etc, the tight nit group of uber high dollar Ferrari collectors were putting up some of their cars each time around, the cars were being bought by their peers. This occurred year after year and the cars were simply revolving within the same tight circle of guys.
 It's not tough to guess what was going on. These guys were artificially inflating the market for collector Ferraris by continually bidding up and up their cars into the stratosphere. That's why you see these Daytonas and GTOs changing hands for $6 to $10 to $12 million dollars now. The market would not naturally be that high if it weren't for the high-dollar back-scratching.

Would not be too much of a stretch to see that happening in these circles as well.


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## cyclingday

Well, in the end, Tedd was the one who got hurt by it all.

 His bike sold today, for $6,600  and I'm sure he was hoping for quite a bit more than that.

 At that price, he got about what the individual parts would have brought. Normally you would make more by selling a bike in pieces, but with a Super Deluxe in good original condition, that bike should have brought more like $8,000 to $9,000

And I think without all of the shennanigans, it probably would have.

It just goes to show, that if you play with fire, then you might get burned.


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## VintageSchwinn.com

Marty

I think Tedd did fine.  Personally I valued that bike at $6k to $6,500.  Obviously it didn't come with that Pogo, so that can be saved for another project, traded, sold, etc.  I hope it ends up on the Bay myself!

Anyone know WHO bought Tedd's bike ??  I don't recognize the feedback on the blanked-out name.


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## GenuineRides

It may have been purchased by a relative of the Hungus family, the Underhills.
GenuineRides


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## VintageSchwinn.com

I heard the McCoys got it, but the Klampetts are feuding with them again over this.  It doesn't look good in Kentucky, just sayin'.......


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## squeedals

The drama this bike created made for some interesting thoughts and conversations. Maybe why I love collecting bikes. I think I'll stick to the more common rides and besides, I can't afford to pay that kind of $$$$$ for a bicycle. At my age.......I'm leaving enough "stuff" for the wife to deal with when I pass on 

   Don


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