# Info & history for "the Fowler"



## gtdohn (Jan 31, 2019)

Does anyone have any interesting history or information on the Fowler bicycle. This one is about 1896. There isn't much out there to study. I don't remember seeing any for sale either, at least in quite some time.
Anything you might have would be appreciated,
Thank you.


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## fordmike65 (Jan 31, 2019)

Similar seat tube
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1898-bike-up-for-discussion.111318/#post-734113


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## Jesse McCauley (Jan 31, 2019)

I've seen a handful of them, I think there is one on letgo right now for too much money. Cool bike, I imagine they rarely experience seat tube failure? Anyway the only contribution I can make to the conversation is that Fowler made a mark in the racing tandem world with their "sextuplet" and they seemed to use it for branding purposes.


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## bike (Jan 31, 2019)

I understood that Ignaz Schwinn worked there for a time.              http://re-cycle.com/History/Schwinn/Swn1_Ignaz.aspx


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## bentwoody66 (Jan 31, 2019)

There was a great story in one of the latest Wheelman magazines about the Fowler with the worlds heaviest racers. Cool story!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## cyclingday (Jan 31, 2019)




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## gtdohn (Jan 31, 2019)

Wow, keep it coming. So far this is great!


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## corbettclassics (Jan 31, 2019)

I’ve got tons of stuff on Fowler!

What exactly do you need?

Is that the bike that came from Reed a while back? Or maybe Glenn’s bike?


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## gtdohn (Jan 31, 2019)

Basically I just want to learn about them because they are never discussed. I find the design fascinating and wondered why it didn't continue. Did Fowler or America claim the design patent?
I'll take anything you want to share.


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## cyclingday (Jan 31, 2019)

It looks to me like Hill mfg/Fowler was the first to patent that frame design, and Ignaz Schwinn took it with him when he formed International/America.
Was Ignaz the designer?
It seems like he held the patent rights.


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## corbettclassics (Jan 31, 2019)

gtdohn said:


> Does anyone have any interesting history or information on the Fowler bicycle. This one is about 1896. There isn't much out there to study. I don't remember seeing any for sale either, at least in quite some time.
> Anything you might have would be appreciated,
> Thank you.
> 
> View attachment 940853


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## gtdohn (Jan 31, 2019)

Bill, that is exactly the model I have and the serial number is 14622. Neat to see it,
thank you.


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## fat tire trader (Feb 1, 2019)

cyclingday said:


> It looks to me like Hill mfg/Fowler was the first to patent that frame design, and Ignaz Schwinn took it with him when he formed International/America.
> Was Ignaz the designer?
> It seems like he held the patent rights.



So do the Fowlers with the split seat tube predate the Americas? Were they both made at the same time? I'm trying to confirm that my bike is an America.
Thanks,
Chris


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## corbettclassics (Feb 1, 2019)

I’m pretty sure that’s an America.  I have some info on that etc but won’t have access to that until tonight or tomorrow. I don’t believe that’s a Fowler.


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## cyclingday (Feb 1, 2019)

fat tire trader said:


> So do the Fowlers with the split seat tube predate the Americas? Were they both made at the same time? I'm trying to confirm that my bike is an America.
> Thanks,
> Chris




Yeah, I think by a couple of years.
It looks like the Hill Mfg./Fowler was being made in at least 1891 with the start up of the International Mfg./America in 1893.


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## cyclingday (Feb 1, 2019)

It's an interesting connection between the transient tradesmen of Fowler, to America, and then ultimately the formation of Arnold Schwinn & Co.


















It sounds like Ignaz Schwinn took the best of each company with him.
Snake moves all the way! Lol!


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## gtdohn (Feb 1, 2019)

The didn't have "non solicitation agreements" back then I guess 

Great stuff


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## dnc1 (Feb 1, 2019)

There's a photo of one on the UK V-CC library site described as a "Hill & Moffatt" Fowler from 1896.
But sadly no.further information other than an 1896 Fowler ladies model.


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## corbettclassics (Feb 2, 2019)

I believe this is a "Fowler".


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## corbettclassics (Feb 2, 2019)




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## gtdohn (Feb 2, 2019)

So the above seems to indicate that the America truss frame was patented first, even if the truss design was first used on the Fowler?
Sounds like there was a bit of a dispute over this whole thing. I still wonder who actually sat down and designed the wishbone frame. We may never know since they both claim it. I think that sneaky little Schwinn guy took the truth to his grave.


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## corbettclassics (Feb 3, 2019)

One other thing that is interesting to note between Fowler and America is that I have nothing on racers on an America built frame.  But, every time I research something on Fowler they seem to have many men who raced them and were champions!  Fowler seems to be the racing bike of choice and they did have a model called "The King Bee" racer.  I have many pictures of racers on a Fowler but I've never found a photo of a racer on any America.


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## cyclingday (Feb 3, 2019)

In the International mfg/America ad, it says that each wishbone truss frame is built under the supervision of its inventor, E.M.Graham.
In an earlier article, it said that when Schwinn left Hill mfg/Fowler, to start up International/America, that he designed all of their products.
So, it looks like Schwinn took the inventor/patent holder, marketing guy, and chief financial officer, to start up International/America, and then did it again, a couple of years later to start up AS&Co.
It would be interesting to see, 
(@Mark Mattei ) if Schwinn had any drawings of a wishbone truss type frame in the early days right after the formation of Arnold Schwinn and Company, or if he figured he had already squeezed all he could out of that gimmick. Lol!


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## corbettclassics (Feb 3, 2019)

Well then, speaking of gimmicks ...... who in the heck built this??  ( Fowler - America - or someone else )

Truss on seat tube and truss on down tube.  Center crank with a belt going to the outside of the rim itself.  Where is this bike today!!


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## cyclingday (Feb 3, 2019)

Wow! That sure is an interesting concept.
I wouldn't be surprised if E.M. Graham turned out to be the designer.
That one may have ended up in Schwinns archival collection.
@Mark Mattei would be the best source of knowledge for that possibility.
After thinking about this conversation, and the movement of intellectual property between companies.
With a signed no compete clause, I always wondered why Ignaz Schwinn didn't go after William Henderson when he left AS&Co. to start up Ace.
Now, I think I know why.
That's how Schwinn got his start, so turnabout was fair play.
He probably figured, if he could prove to be successful against the juggernaut that AS&Co. had become, then more power to him.
The funny thing is, that in a roundabout way, Bill Henderson did out last Schwinn in the American four cylinder motorcycle market.
The brand that Indian bought to get into that market was the Ace.
Interestingly enough, both of the designers of  the final examples of the Henderson and the Ace were by guys that Schwinn and Indian had lured from Harley Davidson.
Arthur Constantine and Arthur Lemon.
Cutthroat business practices right from the beginning. Lol!
Ok, and now back to the Fowler/America conversation.


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## gtdohn (Feb 3, 2019)

Which goes to show that the more things change, the more they stay the same. I am still in love with the wishbone design, whoever actually came up with it, and I think marketing the bike with a huge man riding it was genius, but can you imagine the reaction that would get these days


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## corbettclassics (Feb 3, 2019)

I also read that Fowler offered any color but white.  Yet, the Fowler purchased from the Schwinn collection many years ago was a white one and all original. My client bought the bike from that auction and I took many pictures of it.

I’m restoring mine in the Purple that was offered in their catalogue.


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## fat tire trader (Feb 5, 2019)

I have this bike too, a Royal Stella


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## cyclingday (Feb 6, 2019)




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## fat tire trader (Feb 6, 2019)

The forks on these bikes have a different crown than gtdohn's Fowler and my bike (America?). I have a fork that looks like the one in the picture. If I remember right it has a smaller than normal steerer diameter.


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## fordmike65 (Mar 6, 2019)

Nice project TOC steer-from-rear America on eBay right now.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=273747465939


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## bentwoody66 (Oct 13, 2022)

Fowler or America?


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## lgrinnings (Oct 13, 2022)

The fork would suggest Fowler to me as would the straight seat stays…

Here’s my 96 Fowler which will be available at Copake tomorrow…


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## corbettclassics (Oct 13, 2022)

I would say Fowler also as it appears he has the Fowler adjustable bar as seen in this ad.


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## Vintage racing (Dec 8, 2022)

corbettclassics said:


> I’ve got tons of stuff on Fowler!
> 
> What exactly do you need?
> 
> Is that the bike that came from Reed a while back? Or maybe Glenn’s bike?



Hello , do you have any advertising or brochures on the 1897 or 1898 Fowler racing model ? 
thank you, Jerry


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## Vintage racing (Dec 8, 2022)

lgrinnings said:


> The fork would suggest Fowler to me as would the straight seat stays…
> 
> Here’s my 96 Fowler which will be available at Copake tomorrow…
> 
> View attachment 1711433



Is it still available?


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## lgrinnings (Dec 8, 2022)

Vintage racing said:


> Is it still available?



It is indeed still available. I was unable to make the trip to Copake.


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## corbettclassics (Dec 9, 2022)

Vintage racing said:


> Hello , do you have any advertising or brochures on the 1897 or 1898 Fowler racing model ?
> thank you, Jerry



Jerry - so you're referring then to the "King B. Racer" model?


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## cr250mark (Dec 9, 2022)

Here is a very nice Original picture I acquired
Some time ago to reference .
Partial side Glance at killer badge ,Fowler ?
Based on size of boy hard to tell if this is a
Boys or Juvenile version.
















My


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## Vintage racing (Dec 9, 2022)

lgrinnings said:


> It is indeed still available. I was unable to make the trip to Copake.



They had a lot of very good deals this year at the auction. What are you asking for the Fowler?


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## mike cates (Dec 9, 2022)

CABERS, if you can't find original catalogs for your bicycles, I very well may have the rarity you need to compliment your bicycle.
Remember everyone to email me for the complete up to date PDF list of over 500 original catalogs for sale covering many many brands of bicycles.
Go over the list a few times as things pop out to your surprise.
A lot of literature here!
Regarding this particular FOWLER bicycle, I have the original catalogs and sales brochure for sale for years 1895, 1896, 1897 FOWLER so more can be learned.
Mike Cates, CA.
(760) 473-6201 Voice calls only and I do not text.
Email: cates0321@hotmail.com


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