# Looking for information on 1938 Schwinn Paramount Team Bikes



## Dweber

Looking for photos or information on Schwinn Paramount Team bikes used in the Olympics and other races. Trying to find the difference between a Stock 1938 paramount and a team bike. Al Crossley raced a 1938 Paramount (A325) team bike. I have Harold Ade's (1932 Olympic rider) 1938 Paramount (A324) team bike. Any help appreciated.


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## Vicious Cycle

I own Al Crossley's A325 Team bike and his all-chrome Paramount training bike. Comparing it to other "A" Paramout's I have, the main visible difference is the team colors paint job, all-chrome fork (hollow on the head crown lug is painted white) and different treatment where paint and chrome meet in sharp points on the chrome tip stays, not square as other later Paramounts. Also noted is the flutes on crank arms are painted Red on inside faces and Blue on outside faces. The A325 bike is still in original paint and decals. This is also the only early painted one I have with chrome tipped rear stays. 
Hard to tell if there is any difference in tubing wall thickness without stripping it down and weighing.


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## ccdc.1

Would be terrific to see pics of your A325 Crossley bike!


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## rollfaster

A local friend has an early 38 serial A148. Beautiful bike!!


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## Dweber

Bike is  disassembled in process of restoration. Will post pictures when coming back together.


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## Dweber

Vicious Cycle, Are the front forks the same  style  on both the stock Paramount and the Team Paramount except for the finish?


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## Vicious Cycle

Dweber said:


> Vicious Cycle, Are the front forks the same  style  on both the stock Paramount and the Team Paramount except for the finish?



They look the same as the other Paramount Watsyn built road bikes I have from that era. but less rake than the Paramount Tourist models.


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## Dweber

Thanks


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## Vicious Cycle

ccdc.1 said:


> Would be terrific to see pics of your A325 Crossley bike!



The pic in my first post is it at speed, Crossley up giving a boost to teammate .
This is it in my shop with incorrect wheel set







Looking for two sets of "V" wood rims to complete builds, 36º.


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## Dweber

My bike (A324) was gifted to Daniel Patten by Harold Ade in the late 1950's. Daniel Patten went to high school with Harold Ade's two daughters.  Harold Ade and Daniel Patten were both members of the Oak Park, IL. Bicycling Club. Together they fixed up bikes, mapped out rides, recruited members, etc. Harold Ade became his mentor. Daniel Patten had basically no means of transportation and Ade gave the bike (A324) to Patten in the late 1950's for club rides and college transportation. In that time period the bike was sent back to Schwinn and refurbished so it could be a everyday rider. Daniel Patten also met his wife in the club also.  Daniel likely put a gentle 10k+ miles on the bike commuting from Oak Park to Evanston, IL. (17.5 miles) on rain free days for about 3-4 years before they saved enough for a car. Earlier this year the family had the bike detailed and took it to the home where their father resided. Their father saw the bike and whispered (My Old Friend!!!). The family regrettably was forced to sell the bike this year to help pay for his medical expenses. This information was provided to me by (Daniel Patten Jr.) 2019.


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## Trainman999

Vicious Cycle, Whats the story on the interesting ladys paramount with derailleur in the backgroung


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## Vicious Cycle

The womens bike is a custom ordered Paramount, circa '40-'41, with Cyclo 3 speed gear. It has the braze-on Cyclo mounting bracket on the chainstay and three gear freewheel on Paramount hub. It is only the second Paramount I have seen set up originally like this. It also features the very rare Webb brake system . This was in the collection of an old Schwinn distributer in the Sacramento valley, I am told he tracked it down in the '50's/'60's from the woman who had it built, she was supposed to be a well known cyclist from that era but sadly her name was lost. I got it from the grandson of the distributer. Also original paint in Team colors.


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## cyclingday

I just acquired this 1940’s model Paramount Racer, and although, I don’t know much about it, it does appear to have a special order geometry and in the team colors.



It’s unusual, in that the frame has a standard seat tube height, but with a very short top tube length.
The standard wheelbase for these models, was 40-1/2” axle to axle.
This one measures out at 38”
Because of the steep angle of the downtube, the fork has more rake than most track bikes of this type.
If a standard track fork had been used, the front wheel wouldn’t be able to clear the frame.
Someone’s personal preference?
It definitely seems to have been a custom order, maybe for a female rider, of a guy with a compact upper body?
Who knows?
I’ll add any additional information that I find out about it, in the future.
It looks like the team bikes that were used in the 48 London Olympics, so maybe a 48 model?









1948 US Olympic Team


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## cyclingday

One other thing to note, is that the flutes on the crankarms are painted red, as is the inside edges of the chainring.





The cotter pins are also painted white.



Possibly 1947/48 serial number?


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## St33lWh33ls

Nice bike! Anywhere from 48 to early 50’s would be a good guess based on serials of known bikes from that period. If it was a 47 it would most likely have a p*** serial, this is just my opinion mind you. My thinking is that they would not have changed serial naming convention mid year, but that’s just my opinion. I have 445.


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## cyclingday

I’m not sure how accurate this serial number list is.


But, it does suggest, that 308 could fall somewhere in 1948.


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## St33lWh33ls

cyclingday said:


> I’m not sure how accurate this serial number list is.View attachment 1302270
> But, it does suggest, that 308 could fall somewhere in 1948.



It’s accurate to the extent that there are bikes listed with known provenance, from the known bikes you can extrapolate the date of other bikes by their serial numbers position to the known bikes. Is it 100%, probably not, but it’s as close as you are going to get as the original records were lost in a fire.


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## cyclingday

Good to know.
Thanks for the confirmation.


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## kccomet

great looking bike cyclingday. thats about the nicest 40s paramount ive seen. it does look like a short wheel base. I love the paint scheme of the team colors, their my favorite.  here's mine in team colors, it has a red head tube, p serial number. I've had this bike 5 or 6 years, and I've never tried to clean it up. it seems like one that would look worse than better with cleaning.


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## olderthandirt

needs polish  and to live with me ! its my size


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## Trainman999

Vicious Cycle   Take a close look at the pict you posted above. [ The pic in my first post is it at speed, Crossley up giving a boost to teammate .] note that both Paramounts have Square head lugs. They can't be A325.  According to Jeff Groman pict is from Nov 1939


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## Vicious Cycle

Not sure what you are referring to, The bike on the track looks the same as the one in my shop, same head lugs and paint detail. It was purchased from Crossley's widow.
I also have his '39 Chrome trainer, still with original decals (A676). Richard Schwinn first told me they "did not do all chrome in '39" until he learned it's provinance. Even the "experts" can be a bit off sometimes.


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## Trainman999

Look at how square the bottom head lug looks ,compare with the bike in post 19 above where the Red head tube and White lug meet ,they come straight down goes straight across the lug and goes back up sreaight. Now look at your bikes they look like the red bike in post 4.  The lug looks like a oval from the front. Here is one to compare at close  to the same angle. Do you know what seasons he competed for Schwinn? Did they provide him with a new bike every year?


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## cyclingday

I just came across this ad from June 1947, and I thought it was interesting, that they referred to what we’ve been calling, the “Team Colors” as “White with 6 Day Trim.”


Pretty cool!


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## ccdc.1

cyclingday said:


> I just came across this ad from June 1947, and I thought it was interesting, that they referred to what we’ve been calling, the “Team Colors” as “White with 6 Day Trim.”



I think I may have seen this ad earlier, but hadn’t noted the date. In any event, for those who are into the minutiae of Paramount info, I think the text of the ad gives us three new Paramount datapoints (new to me, anyway).

1) The text talks about the rear hub cones being threaded for ease of adjustment…the early versions of the Paramount rear hubs had floating cones, which Schwinn touts in its pre-war ad literature…I have examples of both versions, but did not have any indication as to when the change came, until now.

2) The text also references the pedals being ‘best grade imported pedals.’ The pre-war Paramounts used the Torrington 4-star or 5-star/Professional pedals, which would have been domestically produced….I have a couple examples of post-war Union racing/track pedals, which would have been imported….and I have seen numerous other post-war Paramounts with these Union pedals, so it would seem the switch to Union from Torrington came in 1947 as well. Of course, some bikes probably had Torringtons for awhile as there was likely remaining stock on hand.

3) Reference to the option for Opalescent paints (red, blue or green) in addition to opaque colors…don’t recall if any of the A-series Paramounts had the opalescent paint….maybe I’ll look back through my photo collection later this evening.

FWIW...


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## cyclingday




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## cyclingday




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## cyclingday




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