# Seat pan paint color?



## Goldslinger (Apr 2, 2020)

42 g519 Columbia seat pan paint color? I thought I read they are black but I can’t seem to find it. Gloss, semi or flat?


----------



## ChadC (Apr 2, 2020)

My Dayton...I always wondered what was under my seat pan....thanks for making me go look!


----------



## Mercian (Apr 3, 2020)

Hi,

And they can be black too.

See the post from Thursday Nov 14th 2013.



			my debut in the world of G519... - G503 Military Vehicle Message Forums
		


Pierino (Maurizio) took some pictures of his 'as found' Huffman (mid 43 production). The pan is certainly black on that, a Persons produced seat. Remember too that we have established that Huffmans, at least, occasionally used Mesinger seats. You can see the discussion where @rustjunkie convinced me of this here:









						~ ~ ~ 1943 Huffman/Dayton Military Bike Found! ~ ~ ~ | Military Bicycles
					

Thanks to all for the responses so far.  Here are some more pictures of the frame & fender with the wheels off. The undersides of the fenders definitely are olive drab, and where the housepaint has flaked off the frame more of the same color. I certainly feel the housepaint should come off, but...




					thecabe.com
				




The other detail photos may be useful too. For example, they show green painted wood block Persons pedals. They could be replacements, but look quite original, and it seems unlikely, especially if the bike spent it's post war life in Italy. The same with the kick stand, not the one you would expect to see as standard, but  @HUFFMANBILL states that he has the same one on an unmolested 1943 Huffman, I'm not sure from his observation if he thinks this is correct for all Huffmans. I personally think not, since the standard issue type seems more common. But I do think that with Huffmans we see far more variation from the parts we consider as 'standard' on Columbias.

Another list I have slowly been compiling is these variations from the standard for both models. It's not yet ready, partly because of the difficulty in determining what was originally on a bike. I would welcome examples of original variations such as the pedals and kickstand mentioned above.

Best Regards,

Adrian.

PS, I'm on the lookout for a seat for my 1943 Huffman. I'd like a Mesinger, just to vary from the Persons on my Columbia, but would be happy with either.


----------



## bobcycles (Apr 3, 2020)

seems like the Persons Majestic bottom pans were black and chassis / springs etc were Olive Drab.
Mesinger possibly all Olive drab...


----------



## HUFFMANBILL (Apr 4, 2020)

Mercian said:


> Hi,
> 
> And they can be black too.
> 
> ...


----------



## HUFFMANBILL (Apr 4, 2020)

Attached are two pictures of what I believe to be the standard kickstand for the Huffman Military 1942-44 bicycles and the Columbia Military 1942- 45 ( including the Military Columbia Compax) bicycles.  Let me also say that while I believe that the preponderance of Huffman's came from the factory with the non-pancake ( my made up term) front plate and the Columbias came with the Pancake style front plate as with many manufactured items during that period you can never say never.  It is always possible that due to material shortages and/or delivery problems Huffman and/or Columbia could have been left in a situation at times where the use of a non-standard part ( ie; kickstands ) was the only option esp. if they were under government contract deadlines.  However, that would been an uncontrollable exception.  I also believe that at least some of the changes from the expected or usual parts we come across on these bikes were due to damage/breakage to parts and replacement with what parts were available.

The first picture is the standard Huffman kickstand (propped on a bevins bell) from my late 1943 Huffman, which was used in Egypt with the USAFIME in 1944-45.  The second picture is the standard Pancake front plate styled kickstand on my late 1942 Columbia.  If it is helpful, I can also post pictures of the Huffman kickstand broken down into it's various parts.  Let me know.              Regards,  Bill


----------



## Fred Green (Apr 5, 2020)

Here are some shots of my early kickstand removed from the bike.

Fred
Sparta


----------



## DaGasMan (Apr 5, 2020)

I’m not complaining, but somehow we went from seat pan paint schemes 
to kickstands. Nice. I’m glad you guys think like I do. All over the place.


----------



## rustjunkie (Apr 5, 2020)

fwiw the few mesinger g519 saddles with original paint i've had were primed yellow (zinc chromate?).
can be seen in the pic from @ChadC


----------



## Fred Green (Apr 5, 2020)

Stripping the rust off this one.

Fred
Sparta


----------



## DaGasMan (May 1, 2020)

The yellow zinc chromate primer is really showing in those last pictures.
Any other developments with the project Fred ?


----------



## Fred Green (May 1, 2020)

Hello,

     I just sent the saddle off to get rebuilt. I will be cleaning up the undercarriage on it a lot more prior to a repaint. The saddle needs to be totally restored. It did not weather well these last 70 years. The pedals did not either. I plan to strip the undercarriage, find some flat yellow primer and then a nice coat of O.D. Green. I hve the spokes and nipples painted and just put the first coat on the rims. I will be lacing rims in the next few weeks. I am back working full time so it will be a slow process. I am also rebuilding a 1947 Schwinn DX as my rider and a 1939 DX. My days are full.

Fred
Sparta


----------



## Fred Green (May 1, 2020)

Hello,

     Here are some pictures of what I have picked up and gotten ready for the bike. My biggest chore will be to relace the wheels and find a couple of internal parts for the rear hub. I picked up a pump and clamp(Iam working on a correct hose), Bevins bell, front light, replacement spokes, nipples, and rims. I also picked up some small hand tools and oilers. I got the fenders rolled out. By next week I can get the crank, pedals, fenders, chain guard ,light headset and handle bars back on. It is actually starting to take shape.

Fred
Sparta


----------



## Goldslinger (May 1, 2020)

Fred. When you get a chance, could you measure the front of the seat spring to the back of the spring . I don’t have a g519 saddle yet but I have a few prewar Persons but they seem to be long. Thanks 



Sam


----------



## Fred Green (May 2, 2020)

Hello Sam,

    Here you go.

Fred
Sparta


----------



## Goldslinger (May 2, 2020)

Thanks Fred. If you find any extra parts let me know. I need a bell , air pump & bracket. Enjoy seeing your progress.


----------



## Fred Green (May 2, 2020)

Sam,

     I got the bell off of ebay and gave it a coat of paint. The hard part was finding the bottom bracket for it All of $9. I got the pump and bracket from the CABE. I am working on building the correct hose for it. I have a repro bracket for the pump that I got from Bergerwerk.

Fred
Sparta


----------



## Goldslinger (May 2, 2020)

My civilian 41 seat spring is about 1” longer. The pan looks Identical to yours and my frame looks about 1/2 to 1” longer. I hope to find a g519 saddle one of these days. No bike funds right now. Living in Pa and being self employed not a good combination. No income for 6 weeks. The Emperor of Pa says I can go back to work the 8th.


----------



## Fred Green (May 2, 2020)

Sounds like it would work!!

Fred
Sparta


----------



## Fred Green (May 16, 2020)

Hello,

      Finally got the undercarriage for the saddle apart. Thank you Evapo-Rust!!! I have cleaned it up and will start repainting this weekend before it rains. A yellow primer first and then a nice lusterless O.D. Green.

Fred
Sparta


----------



## Fred Green (May 16, 2020)

Hello,

     While Bill is replacing the leather and redoing the pans, I am working on the undercarriage. I got it stripped and cleaned the other day and got it primed today. I still have some small nuts, bolts and washers to prime but I am getting there.

Fred
Sparta


----------



## DaGasMan (May 16, 2020)

Looking good Fred. I’m having a bit of a dilemma with my seat too. Trying to mix civilian and military parts and having fun. 
Could you measure the Frame bar ? I’m thinking put the two “fork” ends up against a flat surface, then measure the center line to the front bolt loop. 
Thanks.


----------



## DaGasMan (May 16, 2020)

Already notice a  - .25” difference in the seat spring length . 
Might be a problem for me down the road.


----------



## Fred Green (May 17, 2020)

I will get on that in just a bit. I purchased some seat parts off ebay that I thought I could use as replacements. The threads ended up being fine threads not course.

Fred
Sparta


----------



## Fred Green (May 17, 2020)

Here is the measurement.

Fred
Sparta


----------



## Goldslinger (May 17, 2020)

Fred where do you get the yellow primer?


----------



## DaGasMan (May 17, 2020)

Thanks Fred. This is what I’m contending with...
Pale green is civilian Persons, OD is from what 
I believe is/was either a WLA or a Simplex = very
big seat pan and bracket for big seat post. Actually
very similar to a Persons Whizzer seat, Except it
clearly had Military OD and yellow zinc primer paint. 

And where _did _you get that yellow primer ?


----------



## Fred Green (May 17, 2020)

Hello,

      The yellow is not a primer but a high gloss rustoleum. Cheapest thing on Walmart's shelves. I found a flat Aircraft grade yellow that was supposed to be a deep golden yellow but it was super pale. Totally wrong color. I went down to Walmart and found a yellow I liked, bought 3 different colors of, and painted it. The flat OD should cover it. If it doesn't I can always start over. I will get a picture of the can I used. I am very happy with the color. The original Yellow looked pretty glossy to. It definitely was not flat.

    I had the fenders rolled and have done a lot of small misc stuff to the bike. The color is original. I did not mess with that. I will touch up some paint loss where the paint came of due to the fender rolling. I purchased a head light which was NOS and mint. I aged it a bit so it did not look out of place. It is coming along. I straightened the chain guard and need to get new bolts, and nuts for it. I forgot to get a picture of the reflector but did get it on. Next weekend I will try my hand at lacing a wheel, 2 to be exact!!

Fred
Sparta


----------



## Fred Green (May 17, 2020)

Here is what I am using for paint.

Fred
Sparta


----------



## Fred Green (May 29, 2020)

Hello,

     Now lets get back to seat pan color!  I just had my saddle returned to me from a refurbishment. Bill Strong, HUFFMANBILL, did the job and I could not have been any more pleased. My bike is rather worn so I needed it to look used and dark. This was an awesome job!!!! If I ever have another seat to get redone I know where I am going!!! Thanks Bill! By Sunday I should have it reattached to the undercarriage and by next week the wheels should be done!!

Fred
Sparta


----------



## DaGasMan (May 30, 2020)

Looking good!


----------



## Fred Green (May 30, 2020)

Hello,

     Thank you @HUFFMANBILL ! The saddle is phenomenal!! I finally completed the undercarriage work and put the two together. This is not a new issue bike so it had to have some wear. The wheels should be done by next week and maybe on the road by next Sunday!!! Here is hoping we can get it done.

Fred
Sparta


----------



## HUFFMANBILL (May 30, 2020)

Fred, the seat and undercarriage look great together!!  I like how you aged the metal parts by allowing some of the yellow to show through.  The safety tabs that I made you turned out well with the 33070 shade OD you used.  Thank you for the kind words regarding my leather work.

Regards,
Bill


----------



## Fred Green (May 30, 2020)

Hello,

    I have both of my wheels at the local Bike shop getting laced. I just do not have the time. My bike guy is super interested in the bike. I went to the basement and slapped most of the parts back together. I have to straighten a truss rod out and paint a few screws but it is looking like a well ridden bike. The saddle makes the bike in my opinion and I can't thank @HUFFMANBILL enough!! By next Sunday I could be on the road!! Let's hope!! 

    This is how she is sitting now. I have well worn coke bottle grips for her.

Fred
Sparta


----------



## Fred Green (Jun 26, 2020)

Picked them up today. Hopefully riding by this afternoon.

Fred
Sparta


----------



## Fred Green (Jun 26, 2020)

Good tires and tubes now.


----------



## DaGasMan (Jun 26, 2020)

Those wheels came out great Fred.   I can’t make it out but I hope
thats a whistling emoji !


----------



## Fred Green (Jun 26, 2020)

Hello Guys,

      I am almost there. I need a chain, correct or not and some touch up on some nuts and bolts. I got the fenders rolled, the saddle redone, by none less the saddle expert HUFFMANBILL, picked up a bell, pump and front light. Looking pretty good!!

Fred
Sparta


----------



## DaGasMan (Jun 26, 2020)

Get a chain Fred ! You’re right there ! I really like the appeal of the 
original rustic look. Very nice comeback for this old war horse.


----------

