# What is the Rarest Phantom?



## npence

Ive been wondering what the rarest color Phantom is beside the blue christmas one in 55. I have seen a lot of Black Phantoms. So any ideas what Phantom Color is the hardest one to find in Original condition. If I would have to guess I would say the Red Phantoms just because I have seen the fewest of those. Then the Green. and the black is the most common. Let me know what you think. Thanks


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## island schwinn

i would agree on the red phantom.seems like there are more green phantoms available.jmo.


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## Freqman1

I would agree that red seems to be the rarest color as far as the boys bikes go. I have been watching Phantoms pretty closely for the last two years. It seems the girls bike in any color is fairly rare but of course it was only a one year bike. v/r Shawn


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## hzqw2l

*Green or Red toss up.*

Since I own a completely original 1952 Green Phantom purchased from the original owner's widow, I'd vote Green.

Year has some bearing on which color is rarer than another.  The later years with metallic Red or Green are quite common.

Black Phantoms were most common since that was the focus of most of Schwinn's magazine advertising.  I'd bet most Green or Red Phantoms were sold when a dealer had sold out of the more common Black.

I have a really nice completely original 1950 Black Phantom too.  I'm inclined to think it is rarer than the Green one I own.


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## Larmo63

*Maybe we could do a count of the members here?*

We could do a head count as to how many we have and of what colors....? I have a red '53....


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## bricycle

Good idea Lawrence! Maybe I'm way off base here but, I see way more reds than greens. I mean, if you were a boy in the fifties, what color was associated with cool? Red of course!!! (unless you liked the "Green Lantern" or "Green Hornet"), but then you'd have the folks get you a Green Schwinn Hornet, No?......Ha!


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## Freqman1

OK here's mine: 1954 black boys, 1955 green girls, 1956 green boys, 1959 green boys. BTW I think we need to only count original bikes. I have a red Phantom project but think it may have started as a Black Phantom. I also plan on doing a blue boys bike. Speaking of that I was the under bidder a couple of years ago on the one that went on Ebay. I tried to get the seller to give up the buyers name but he said the person that bought it wanted to remain anonymous. He did tell me it went somewhere in So. Cal. If anyone knows the whereabouts of this bike I would be very interested. v/r Shawn


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## jpromo

hzqw2l said:


> Since I own a completely original 1952 Green Phantom purchased from the original owner's widow, I'd vote Green.




Wow, that is one beautiful Phantom. They're usually a bit out of my taste but that green is phenomenal  I think the blackwalls really set it apart.


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## npence

I have a 1954 Original red Phantom. One reason way I started this thread.


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## Larmo63

*1953 Schwinn Red (rider) Phantom*

rider with a beautifully restored seat, original key, nice old Typhoons, might be on the market soon.....


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## Freqman1

Is this bike badged as a Schwinn or BF Goodrich? Correct pedals? Grips? do the lights and horn work/condition of battery trays? Thanks, Shawn







Larmo63 said:


> rider with a beautifully restored seat, original key, nice old Typhoons, might be on the market soon.....


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## Larmo63

*Schwinn bike*

This is a "rider condition" bike and that is what I like about it...... A bit of a beater, I don't have to worry too much about it. I have an NOS high flange front hub that is going onto the front rim.


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## Rear Facing Drop Out

*Super rare 59 phantoms...*

Not many of them around, if anyone has a pic they are alot different... fun/sad to look at the end of an era...


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## Freqman1

Both the first year and last year have differences but the '59 has some very noticeable differences including all of the decals, the seat, and the pedals. Here is a pic of my greeen '59. v/r Shawn







Rear Facing Drop Out said:


> Not many of them around, if anyone has a pic they are alot different... fun/sad to look at the end of an era...


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## Larmo63

*Looks better with vintage whitewalls*

Put these OLD white wall tires on today, I like it!


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## bricycle

Larry, are those my grips?...looks good.


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## sm2501

I would say blue is the rarest!


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## 59corvette

*blue phantom*

what year is your blue phantom? also what years was the blue available?


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## npence

I believe the blue is Christmas of 1955 only. and I would say blue is the rarest hands down that is why I was wondering about just the other 3 colors.


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## Freqman1

Scott,
   Did you buy this bike? I really wanted that one bad and should have stepped up and threw down on it. I believe it went for about $2500 if memory serves. v/r Shawn







sm2501 said:


> I would say blue is the rarest!


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## sm2501

Freqman1 said:


> Scott,
> Did you buy this bike? I really wanted that one bad and should have stepped up and threw down on it. I believe it went for about $2500 if memory serves. v/r Shawn




Nope, not me. I gave it some thought, but just didn't man up!


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## bricycle

That must have been right before they went to the new fork leg style!


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## vintagebikenewbie

newbie here.

can you guys lead me to a site that shows the official colors of all the phantoms released and when they were released?  Am eyeing a phantom but don't know what color to restore it to.

I'm from the Philippines, and it seems that there are thousands upon thousands of vintage bikes here, brought by American soldiers during WWII, and they are now making a presence again..

ciao!


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## Freqman1

Boys bikes--Black '49-'59, red and green '50-53, red and green opalescent (candy) '54-'59, blue '55 only (not an official color). Girls bikes-black, opalescent red and green, blue '55 only. v/r Shawn


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## Larmo63

*All of a sudden..*

I asked here what year my Red Phantom is, and it is a '51, not a '53 as it was sold to me. Cool.


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## Larmo63

Bump it up.....


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## axsepul

Awesome thread! I posted a few questions over at RRB about the black phantom but have not received any answers yet. Let's try here. I see somebody posted already the years the phantoms were made. I want to know how can you tell an old phantom from the 1995 replica. Do they both have that welded seamed on the bb shell? I've seen one here with a front drum brake, where all the old ones like that? Where is the serial number on the 1995 and what does it look like? I read somewhere on the net (don't have the link handy) that the fork crown(don't know what is that)  could not be made identical on the 1995. Is this true? Pictures will help if you can. 

The reason I want to know is because I went to a bike show early this year and a guy there had two black phantoms, one boy and one girl. The thing is that both bikes looked brand new like right out of the box and they didn't look like they where restored.


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## Freqman1

The girls bikes were not repod so I would guess you were looking at a pair of restored bikes. I don't have one of the 95s but there are numerous subtle differences and some rather obvious. I believe the brake arm is one give away but I'm sure someone here has one of these that they could share all the differences with us. v/r Shawn


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## axsepul

here is where i asked

http://www.ratrodbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45509

and the two articles i found

http://www.cyclorama.net/blog/ramblings/my-1995-schwinn-black-phantom/

http://bicycles38.110mb.com/Schwinn_Black_Phantom_100th_Anniversary_Model_New.html


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## _cy_

very helpful info... should be getting a Blue boys Phantom soon


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## J.C.

*Simple*

*Mens- Blue
Wonens- Blue

Got Blue?

Simple*


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## J.C.

*What's not simple is the way I spell "womens".  Ugh.  *


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## Freqman1

I sure would like to see pics when you get it. Is this a 'restored' bike or the real deal? v/r Shawn







_cy_ said:


> very helpful info... should be getting a Blue boys Phantom soon


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## teisco

Freqman1 said:


> I sure would like to see pics when you get it. Is this a 'restored' bike or the real deal? v/r Shawn




Restored or the real deal? I thought it was still real if it was restored. I am new to bikes and in the car world a 37 Packard Roadster was just as real if it was restored or not.


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## Freqman1

I'm a car guy too but comparing bicycles to cars is not exactly the same. When I first started collecting bicycles I was naive enough to think that, like cars, I could find a reference to tell me how many were made, options such as colors, various models for every year, proper finish on all parts for a resto, etc... . Even for something as ubiquitous as the Phantom there is not a wealth of information available although there is a lot more for them than a Goodyear Double Eagle Clipper. I'm not even going to go down the road of the meaning of the word 'restored' but what I was alluding to is that I've only seen one legitimate boy's blue Phantom and that was the one on Ebay last year that Scott and I were talking about earlier in this post. I have seen 'restored' blue Phantoms but doubt they ever started as a blue Phantom or even a Phantom at all for that matter. Going back to the car thing-I have a real 1972 SS 454 El Camino. How do I know its real? The fifth letter of the VIN is a "W" which indicates the 454 motor and in '72 this could only be ordered with the SS (Z16) option. The serial number on a Schwinn frame tells me nothing except when the frame was made. I can take any cantilever frame between '49 and '59, add the appropriate parts, and make a Phantom (any color). Of course if I want to be accurate I have to be careful with colors e.g. blue on anything other than a '55 frame is wrong and it should probably have a Nov frame to be accurate. For most restored bikes unless you have the documentation to prove that it came a certain way there is no way of really telling. How many Elgin Twin 20s are now 40-50-60s? Just my observations. v/r Shawn


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## _cy_

it's blue not a Phantom ... not an expert, but doesn't gap tooth indicate 40's, predating a Phantom? 
key lock springer front end and other details very similar to a Phantom. 
again not an expert, but sure looks in original un-molested condition. 

note cut-out on left side of fender and rear brake lever arm transferring braking forces near bottom bracket. 
this bike appears to have features allowing mounting an engine. 

Serial # D 33422 (1948?) please help identify ... 
http://www.angelfire.com/rant/allday101/SchwinnCodes2.html


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## PCHiggin

Blue Boys Phantom


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## PCHiggin

*Blue Boys? It's possible...*

But I know of a few collector/restorers that have  been in the hobby forever and have never seen an original one.Some guys made their own Boys blue Phantoms back in the 70's-80's to match the Girls '55 Christmas ones they found. I know the one on e-bay looked very old and original but I've seen a couple of '95 replicas that were made to look the same. I guess it could be like that family special ordering a yellow B-6 for their sick son,the dealer just spec'd the color when he ordered it.Somebody here bought it from the original family.


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## hzqw2l

*B6 Whizzer*



_cy_ said:


> it's blue not a Phantom ... not an expert, but doesn't gap tooth indicate 40's, predating a Phantom?
> key lock springer front end and other details very similar to a Phantom.
> again not an expert, but sure looks in original un-molested condition.
> 
> note cut-out on left side of fender and rear brake lever arm transferring braking forces near bottom bracket.
> this bike appears to have features allowing mounting an engine.
> 
> Serial # D 33422 (1948?) please help identify ...




That's a B6 with Whizzer rear Fender and chain guard.  Nice bike.

Find a motor and you're in business...


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## dxmadman

*Brake Arm?*

Never seen a brake arm like that, Whats the story on those? Whizzer Wizards.


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## spoker

*bike info*

thats 1947 one year only wz made to be a wizzer,brake point extnded to stop rear brake damage,prolly has the big spokes as well,heavy spring on springer,serial no. with aD would be 47


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## _cy_

thanks folks... looks like I've got a Schwinn WZ made to accept a Wizzer motor
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/whizzermotorbike/Pbbikes.html

here's the 24in S-10


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## _cy_

spoker said:


> thats 1947 one year only wz made to be a wizzer,brake point extnded to stop rear brake damage,prolly has the big spokes as well,heavy spring on springer,serial no. with aD would be 47




thanks, as predicted spokes measures .1030 instead of .0850. front springs are noticeably stiffer than my Phantom front end.  
someone could easily convert this WZ into a blue boys Phantom and look correct. 
could easily fool someone, unless serial number was checked. 

what's a Blue 47 Schwinn WZ in above condition worth?


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## Freqman1

I don't think so. The biggest thing is it doesn't have the right color paint on it. The blue Phantom was a light blue/dark metallic blue bike. Besides this has the wrong seat, chainguard, fenders, chainring, and would need the correct lights and rack. This would not be cheap or easy. v/r Shawn







_cy_ said:


> thanks, as predicted spokes measures .1030 instead of .0850. front springs are noticeably stiffer than my Phantom front end.
> someone could easily convert this WZ into a blue boys Phantom and look correct.
> could easily fool someone, unless serial number was checked.
> 
> what's a Blue 47 Schwinn WZ in above condition worth?


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## _cy_

Freqman1 said:


> I don't think so. The biggest thing is it doesn't have the right color paint on it. The blue Phantom was a light blue/dark metallic blue bike. Besides this has the wrong seat, chainguard, fenders, chainring, and would need the correct lights and rack. This would not be cheap or easy. v/r Shawn




I stand corrected... didn't even notice the baby blue color. 

so what's a fair selling price for my 47 WZ?


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## mybike1

*Green 52*

I have a green 1952. Add that to the list


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## Larmo63

*Whizzer frame*

That frame deserves a motor! It should also have indentations on the rear fender stays for a Whizzer belt drive clearance. My Whizzer frame had that feature. This frame is a bit valuable. I would love to have it.


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## _cy_

Larmo63 said:


> That frame deserves a motor! It should also have indentations on the rear fender stays for a Whizzer belt drive clearance. My Whizzer frame had that feature. This frame is a bit valuable. I would love to have it.




yup this frame's fender has the correct cutouts for a Whizzer belt. Please email if you are interested in this bike


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## axsepul

So any info on the differences between a 1996 phantom and the old ones


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## PCHiggin

*Differences*



axsepul said:


> So any info on the differences between a 1996 phantom and the old ones




Frame construction,chrome quality,rear hub quality and the 100 Year Anniversary script. The new owners of Schwinn after the bancruptcy really did a great job of replicating the looks of the gennie Phantom,they just priced them outta site to cover the  huge cost of making them. The paint looked great to me but they cut corners on the chrome and most I've seen had peeling or rust and they've never been in the weather.


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## axsepul

Thanks! What brand is the rear hub on the new one


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## greenephantom

Getting back to the original topic, relative rarity of Phantoms. The '54 Reds and Greens are interesting.  First year of the Opalescent on Phantoms, last year for the old-style locking sprig fork, so a neat intersect of paint and parts.

Not nearly as rare as the Blue, but still neat.

Cheers, Geoff


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## StevieZ

I have this Green Phantom. Needs fenders. The fenders are straight. but the chrome is ruff.


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## cyclebuster

This is the same as my bike, mine is repainted red, but has that brake arm, 105 spoked front wheel with a drum brake, on an S2 rim, i need the 105 spoked rear wheel. 




_cy_ said:


> it's blue not a Phantom ... not an expert, but doesn't gap tooth indicate 40's, predating a Phantom?
> key lock springer front end and other details very similar to a Phantom.
> again not an expert, but sure looks in original un-molested condition.
> 
> note cut-out on left side of fender and rear brake lever arm transferring braking forces near bottom bracket.
> this bike appears to have features allowing mounting an engine.
> 
> Serial # D 33422 (1948?) please help identify ...
> http://www.angelfire.com/rant/allday101/SchwinnCodes2.html


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## STUPIDILLO

*Rarest Phantom*

I guess, it would all depend on what era you look at. About 1869-1871 there was also a bike produced that was called a Phantom.This would be during the transitional period, from velocoped to high wheel or "Penny Farthing". This would mean that it might be rarer, when compared to the more widely known Schwinn Phantoms. I would have to say that of the Schwinn Phantoms, my choice wuold be red as well, though.


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## antque

*My 59 and 55 Red Phantoms*

These are my two red phantoms, all original, same color , four years apart


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