# New Departure Model D Dating



## scrubbinrims (Feb 4, 2014)

Probably most of you have noticed the both the brake arm and perhaps the cog securing nut are different is the span of New Departure Model D production and since there is a lack of date coding, I thought it would be a good idea to document some of these details and enlist your assistance in placing their context.
This could help folks date their bicycles +/- a year if there is a logical progression to it.

I am not sure of the exact year the Model D first appeared (following the Model C), but I do not believe it was before the balloon period of 1933 or it was about that time.

There are 4 different styles of brake arms and I list them in order of appearance...

-Little arm "New Departure=Model D"





-Little arm "New Departure=Brake"




-Big arm (1940-41) "New Departure = Brake" I also believe during this transition, some were cad/zonc plated versus the earlier chrome)




-Big arm (postwar only, all cad/zinc plated) "NEW DEPARTURE"


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## fordmike65 (Feb 4, 2014)

Thanks for posting all these side by side for comparison. Will definately help get the right arm on the right bike. Noticed the first one posted has the Alemite fitting.


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## scrubbinrims (Feb 4, 2014)

The cog nuts had more variety and I don't have a clear break point on these, but the earliest were smooth.
-First generation (I think) was a 3-indent




-Second generation had a 2-indent




-I do not believe there was a 1-indent smooth cog nut


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## rustjunkie (Feb 4, 2014)

The 40-49 was also in black.


Here's one I was wondering about the other day:


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## scrubbinrims (Feb 4, 2014)

The second cog nut iteration was the textured style (I think).
It had either a 1-indent or 2-indent and possibly coexisted together, but not sure why.

- 1-indent (forgot to snap a pic, but it exists).

- 2-indent


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## scrubbinrims (Feb 4, 2014)

The third iteration was also textured, but had a valley.
These were late prewar and had a 1-indent or a 2-indent.
At least in my stash, the 1-indent had "New Departure" stamped in the nut consistently.

- 1-indent




- 2-indent


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## scrubbinrims (Feb 4, 2014)

The 4th cog nut style was the one that Scott posted which has 3-indents, is stamped "New Departure," smooth and a layered appearance.
I believe this is postwar, but I am not sure since I don't have many postwar bikes to reference.


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## scrubbinrims (Feb 4, 2014)

Besides the typical oil port with hinged cover, I have noted a new departure Model D without any oil port at all and they also did not have writing, so my thought are that they are the very earliest.
Also, for Elgins from roughly 1936-1938 an alemite port was used in place of the typical port and I am not aware of any other manufacturer advertising or using this alemite specialized fitting on their hubs.


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## scrubbinrims (Feb 4, 2014)

So that's what I have to post.
If you have an original bike with its original New Departure Model D wheels and certain of its year, please feel free to add what brake arm is present and what cog nut is used.
Thanks, Chris


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## rustjunkie (Feb 4, 2014)

A little more info:
The little brake arm hubs use a different disc support sleeve.
The knurled & grooved sprocket set nut was used pre- and well into post-war: part of the Delta stoplight switch rides in the groove.
DD sprocket set nut is different than D: the center hole is ~2mm smaller.


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## TammyN (Feb 4, 2014)

I have a 1939 with the smooth 2-indent nut and the small New Departure = Brake arm. Girls's Schwinn DX.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Feb 4, 2014)

scrubbinrims said:


> The second cog nut iteration was the textured style (I think).
> It had either a 1-indent or 2-indent and possibly coexisted together, but not sure why.
> 
> - 1-indent (forgot to snap a pic, but it exists).
> ...




I have this style on a 39 wheel set.. Also wl front hub.. All original off a 39 dx


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## Miq (Jan 16, 2019)

Big Arm New Departure=Brake D Coaster pics from my 1941 Goodrich Schwinn New World







 Two indent textured nut


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## Miq (Jan 16, 2019)

24 tooth rear sprocket.  Looks like zinc galvanized coating. ??






Partial axle assemby (discs not shown - still soaking) 







I ordered a NOS little cone for it and NOS bearings.


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## Miq (Jan 16, 2019)

Original Bearings


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## Miq (Jan 16, 2019)

Front hub is a New Departure WL.


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## Miq (Jan 16, 2019)




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## bike (Jan 16, 2019)

Can anyone post an exploded view so those of us who are not bike mechanics can have the right name for the parts...
Thanks


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## TieDye (Jan 16, 2019)

@bike   Maybe this will help:


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## TieDye (Jan 16, 2019)

@bike


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## rustjunkie (Jan 16, 2019)

lots of info here:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/p...tions-schematics-non-discussion-thread.70318/

and here, plus service instructions:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/schwinn-service-manual-volume-1-2.96855/


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## Miq (Jan 16, 2019)




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## cyclingday (Jan 16, 2019)

This is good stuff!
That's to all of the contributors.
Maybe this thread should be a sticky in the service forum or somewhere easy to find for future reference.
I can do these hubs in my sleep now, but I remember how challenging it was, the first time I took one apart.


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## Miq (Jan 16, 2019)

Challenging was getting that D-5 textured sprocket set nut loose.    Marred it up a little with the channel locks.  Wish I'd have been a bit more careful or had the correct tool.


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## Autocycleplane (Jan 16, 2019)

I also always replace all the ball bearings with new ones using the old retainers. It makes a big difference.


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## Miq (Jan 16, 2019)

Last night I was able to quickly find a NOS bearing set and NOS D-7 Axle Adjustment Cone on ebay for reasonable cost.  On their way...


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## Miq (Jan 16, 2019)

Same with the WL front hub.  NOS Axle assembly ordered.


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## Miq (Jan 16, 2019)

rustjunkie said:


> plus service instructions:
> 
> https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/schwinn-service-manual-volume-1-2.96855/




Rustjunkie that's an impressive set of service center info.  Thank you for sharing it with me!  Page 199 is the start of the New Departure coaster brake.    It's a staggering breadth of info with recommendations on how to price labor to laying out the shop floor plan for efficient work flow.  That's insane!  Thanks again.

Miq


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## Miq (Jan 17, 2019)

Disks from the Big Arm = Brake Model D cleaned up


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## Miq (Jan 17, 2019)

There were 11 bronze discs and 12 steel discs for a total of 23 discs.


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## SKPC (Jan 18, 2019)

^^^Too much!  You should move your maintenance job to a thread on "maintenance".  We can all see how clean your discs are...sorry to come after you, but this thread is specifically for identification and dates, right?

Below is a wheelset I found on a late 1933 Colson motobike:refurbished.  Rear 36hole, mod D scripted is without the oiler, and was paired with an hourglass ND "M" style unmarked front...TYVM..


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## rustjunkie (Jan 18, 2019)

SKPC said:


> ^^^Too much!  You should move your maintenance job to a thread on "maintenance".  We can all see how clean your discs are...sorry to come after you, but this thread is specifically for identification and dates, right?
> 
> Below is a wheelset I found on a late 1933 Colson motobike.  Rear 36hole, mod D scripted is without the oiler, and was paired with an hourglass ND "M" style unmarked front...TYVM..
> View attachment 934817




It'd be interesting to get measurements of the disc support sleeve and shell if you overhaul it.
pic of the brake arm?


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## TieDye (Jan 18, 2019)

Miq said:


> There were 11 bronze discs and 12 steel discs for a total of 23 discs.



In one of the model D breakdown diagrams I have says 23 total discs.


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## Miq (Jan 18, 2019)

SKPC said:


> ^^^Too much!  You should move your maintenance job to a thread on "maintenance".  We can all see how clean your discs are...sorry to come after you, but this thread is specifically for identification and dates, right?




If that's how you "come after" people here, I think I can take it.  

The intent was to show what the disks look like and how many there are in the big arm = brake version I'm restoring, not "how clean your discs are".  I think other folks looking at the thread on identification for ND D coasters might find that useful.  I believe there are variations of these coasters with NO bronze discs and different combinations of round and toothed discs.  Why not talk about it and show pics of that in this thread?

I guess the thread starter and moderators can decide if it's not appropriate for identification and dating.  This is a forum for people who love old bikes and want to see pics of this stuff right?...  I intentionally did not include the many other pics I took of the coaster restoration.  I am showing that in the thread I started in Vintage Schwinn Lightweights about this bike.

-Miq


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## Miq (Jan 18, 2019)

Thanks TieDye!  Most of the documentation I've seen shows only 21.  Good to see the dwg with 23!


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## TieDye (Jan 18, 2019)

@Miq  I have seen, and maybe have, other documentation showing less disks.  I think the brass ones were earlier, maybe thicker?  Which might account for a need for less?  And, I am sure as the hubs evolved, parts were made stronger, revised, etc.  It's all part of the knowledge we come here to learn and share so we can keep this hobby alive for future generations.


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## SKPC (Jan 18, 2019)

rustjunkie said:


> It'd be interesting to get measurements of the disc support sleeve and shell if you overhaul it.
> pic of the brake arm?



When I get a chance I would be happy to do that @rustjunkie !!     Oh, and @Miq …..No worries man, I hear ya bud, but just one post and two or three pics would have provided all this info.  There are very usefull and informative overhauling and friction disc threads if you search "New Departure Model D" in the thread titles.
No disrespect.  Peace.


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## Miq (Mar 29, 2019)

Nice pic of the black version big arm = brake from @bikiba last Sept.  Black 2 indent cog nut and sprocket.




@rustjunkie You wrote that the black version was available from 40-49 right?  With the big arm I'm thinking this one is early to mid 40's war era...?


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## rustjunkie (Mar 29, 2019)

Miq said:


> Nice pic of the black version big arm = brake from @bikiba last Sept.  Black 2 indent cog nut and sprocket.
> View attachment 972086
> 
> @rustjunkie You wrote that the black version was available from 40-49 right?  With the big arm I'm thinking this one is early to mid 40's war era...?




That is the only arm I’ve ever seen on a black hub.
to clarify: i dont know the exact years that blackout hubs were produced, but given that afaik there’s none known with the 1930s or 1950s brake arm we can narrow it to 1940 start and theoretically 1949 end, although i suspect they were stopped soon after wwii at the latest.


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## bikiba (Mar 29, 2019)

rustjunkie said:


> That is the only arm I’ve ever seen on a black hub.
> to clarify: i dont know the exact years that blackout hubs were produced, but given that afaik there’s none known with the 1930s or 1950s brake arm we can narrow it to 1940 start and theoretically 1949 end, although i suspect they were stopped soon after wwii at the latest.




i watch ND stuff very carefully [ not that i am an expert by any means ] but i have only seen that style arm on a black hub as well


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## Miq (Mar 29, 2019)

rustjunkie said:


> That is the only arm I’ve ever seen on a black hub.
> to clarify: i dont know the exact years that blackout hubs were produced, but given that afaik there’s none known with the 1930s or 1950s brake arm we can narrow it to 1940 start and theoretically 1949 end, although i suspect they were stopped soon after wwii at the latest.




Yea I think you're right, they probably didn't continue after WWII, so maybe late 45-46 they stopped.  Do people see blackout parts used on prewar bikes 40-41? 

@mickeyc has a couple of New Worlds from what I think is the war era and they have the black big arm = brake parts.  Lightweight Experts





Just trying to figure out how to date war era bikes.  Serial number info is a mess so 42-45 is tough right???


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