# Pre-War Western Flyer



## SimplePleasures (Mar 30, 2008)

Hello!  I'm a newbie both to bikes and to the Cabe.  I got into ballooners this past fall when I picked up Schwinn Mark IV Jaguar.  Recently I found a Western Flyer and I have been trying to find more information about it.  Its a skip tooth so I assume it is pre-war.  From photo archives and ads it looks very similar to some of the 1940ish roadmasters as well as hawthorne americans.  The Chainguard (badly ripped), fenders and springer all look very similar to roadmaster parts.  But the straightbar looks more like that seen on Hawthorne Americans.  Somewhere along its journey it lost the rear rack as well as a light in between the springer.  Maybe it had a tank too?  Thanks!


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## militarymonark (Mar 30, 2008)

looks like alot of fun, have your ridden it yet?


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## SimplePleasures (Mar 30, 2008)

Thanks.  Yeah its a blast!  I broke it down and after trying and failing to bring much of its original paint back to life, I have started sanding it in preparation for something new and bright.  Gonna follow the lines of the original paint job though.  I also want to try to find a replacement chainguard and a nice ball light.  Hoping to be riding her again by the time it is nice and warm here (i'm in boston, so that gives me plenty of time).


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## militarymonark (Mar 30, 2008)

yeah it sure does give you plenty of time this winter has been way to long


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## 37fleetwood (Mar 30, 2008)

hey, cool bike! it was made by Cleveland Welding who also made alot of the Hawthornes and all the Roadmasters among others. that would explain it's family resemblance. try Mike the ol' tin bender for a chain guard I think he has one, or he did last time I looked.
Scott


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## SimplePleasures (Mar 31, 2008)

Thank you guys so much for the replies and encouragement! I appreciate it.  Looks like a came to the right place  

Mike: I will be sending you a PM about the chain guard shortly.  Thanks.


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## AntonyR (Mar 31, 2008)

Yeah you just missed the correct rear rack that was on ebay recently. I have the shoulder bolts for a drop stand if you wanted to go that route.


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## SimplePleasures (Mar 31, 2008)

What do you think the correct rack would have been?  Thanks


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## AntonyR (Mar 31, 2008)

I've never actually seen the WF version of that frame, so assuming that is the WF version of the American, that same rack with the lenses on the sides seems likely. Otherwise it was probably the standard CWC issue that came on same era Roadmaster, etc. It's just such an odd frame style for WF for that time. Up to now I thought only Hawthorne used that straight lower curved(not with a single obvious bend) upper bar scheme before the war. Later it became the Luxury Liner, promoted as the 'New improved style over prewar models'[Roadmaster '47 ad] so prewar would be fairly rare. I doubt that there were that many made of that frame style with a WF badge, or that survived the war effort scrap heap.


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## SimplePleasures (Mar 31, 2008)

Thanks for the info AntonyR.  Sounds like I have a fairly unique bike.  I will now have to decide which way to go with that rack.


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## RMS37 (Mar 31, 2008)

Hi,

You have a fairly uncommon bicycle.  It was manufactured by Cleveland Welding for Western Autos and uses a CWC frame that was only produced for the 1941 model year, physically; these frames were probably made as early as fall 1940 and were likely produced until bicycle production ended for WW2. 

While it is a straight-bar, like the Hawthorne ?All American? and several Post-war CWC models, the frame you have actually shares almost nothing with those models.

The CWC designation for Roadmaster version of the bicycle is: Model 5926-A, Men?s ?A? fully equipped.  This Model replaced the 4-Gill models offered in 1939 and 40 which in turn were the replacements for the Supreme models of 1937 and 38.

I do not know if Western Autos had a specific designation for this model

The most notable difference between ?A? model CWC frames and lesser models is the 6" tall head tube on the men?s frames (which is the same height used on standard and ?A? model girl?s frames and an inch taller than other men?s CWC frames).  The tank aperture is unique to this frame only the correct 1941 tank will fit the frame.  

The CWC ?All American? is a very different frame, the head tube is 5? tall, the chain stays are of the earlier non-rising style, and the down tube is virtually straight with a very fast bend close to the bottom bracket.  Postwar CWC straight-bar frames are very different again, all with 5? heads and a down tube with a more serpentine bend.

In the past 15+ years I have seen photos of less than 10 of these bicycles.  Interestingly, they have been badged about evenly between Roadmaster and Western Flyer.  The differences of note between the two are the chain ring, (1? pitch and patterned as yours for Western Flyer, and ?? pitch with 10 torqued hearts for Roadmaster) and the rack (Western Flyer used the Airfoil rack as used on the All American while Roadmaster used a version of the 37-40 rack with turn signal style tail lights.)

For photographic reference you can turn to the Evolution of the Bicycle, volumes one and two.  In volume one, on page 148, is a picture of Steve Castelli?s original. And in volume two on page 184, Brad Guilford?s Western Flyer is shown. (I believe the chain guard and headlight are not original.)  Unfortunately I don?t believe this model appears on Dave Stromberger?s site!

Regarding the tank and headlight;

1937, 38, and 39 CWC catalogs display ?A? models offered without tanks, the 1940 and 41 catalogs only list ?A? models with tanks.  This, along with the style of the paint darts on your frame leads me to believe that your bicycle originally had a tank. The correct tank is hard to find but I?m sure one will turn up if you persevere.

Upper line CWC models for 1940 used a fork mounted headlight which was wired to batteries and a headlight switch in the tank. In 1941 a larger headlight was used that holds its own batteries and switch.  This is the headlight you need.

I will try to find a suitable picture to post in the next few days

Enjoy your bike! It is a very nice find.

Philip Marshall

Also, as an aside on All Americans, I thought they were only sold through Ward?s until I scored a frame and fork on eBay a few years ago badged Western Flyer.


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## Classicriders (Apr 1, 2008)

If I am not mistaken, the correct tank for this frame had stamped horizontal lines(Ribs)along the sides.  I have only come across one of these tanks in the almost 15 yrs I have been involved in this hobby.


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## SimplePleasures (Apr 1, 2008)

Wow!  That was much more info than I possibly could have hoped for.  Thanks Philip.  Can't wait to see the pictures you are able to post.  From what Classicriders said it sounds like I certainly have my work cut out for me.   Where do you guys think I should begin if I want to track down one of those tanks (if its even possible to get one)  and the rack?


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## Aeropsycho (Apr 1, 2008)

*The Right Rack!*

He still has it!!!   and a front fender (Roadmaster) as well! 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=156523&item=350039919868

It is the same the only thing is that this is adjustable check it out I have a pic of the tank as well when I find it...:eek: 

33kong on the bay has the tank .... it did not sell! super rare and expensive but... you need it!

J...


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## SimplePleasures (Apr 1, 2008)

Thanks for the help Aeropsycho!  I think I am going to try to find the airfoil rack (like those seen on Hawthorne All Americans) instead of the roadmaster rack for my bike.  

The only roadmaster tank that 33Kong has that is for a straight bar CWC Bicycle is a luxury liner tank.  From what both RMS37 and Classicriders said, it sounds like I am looking for a slightly different tank that is very specific to my rather unusual frame.  Was there a different tank that 33Kong had for sale before? 

Thanks for you help!

-Alex


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## RMS37 (Apr 1, 2008)

Here is a photo of a restored Western Flyer that I believe Memory Lane advertised for sale a couple of years ago.  The bike has been assembled correctly with the airfoil rack, but I am not familiar with the orange hue.  It may be meant to represent the CWC color, Rust, which appears to be more brown in CWC literature. It is also possible that the color is not represented well in the photo, that orange was originally used, or that ?Rust? was brighter than it appears in the catalogs. The bike sports the 1941 CWC chainguard which may or may not have been offered on Western Flyers and has an incorrect sprocket

The Airfoil rack is correct for your Western Flyer.  The rack on eBay is not. With a non-adjustable seat connection it would be correct for certain Roadmasters, but not the 1941 A-model.  The adjustable end means it probably was originally mounted on a Snyder built Hawthorne.

The Airfoil rack is not all that hard to find (as it was use on several Hawthorne models in 1940-42) and turns up on eBay at least a couple times a year. 

The 41 A-model tank is hard to find, and the tank that Jerry Peters had (eBay, Kong33) has sold.  Broadcasting your needs on this site and the Ballooner forum on Yahoo, along with networking in the hobby and keeping a close eye on eBay are probably the best ways to find the parts you need. In the mean time I believe that Jim Frasier has reproduced the tank in fiberglass.

Finding a Rare bike with needs is a bit of a mixed blessing.  Your bike is an excellent candidate for restoration and I wish you luck sourcing the parts you need. 

Phil


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## Classicriders (Apr 1, 2008)

33kong sold that tank off ebay.  I emailed him about it when it was listed, but when I called him on the phone he said that it sold privately.


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## SimplePleasures (Apr 1, 2008)

Thanks for that picture Phil.  Its great to final see what she once looked like.


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## AntonyR (Apr 1, 2008)

Actually the correct rack should have had curved braces to match the fender braces like this one.


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## Rookie (Jun 23, 2010)

Does anyone know how much this bike would go for?


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## RMS37 (Jun 23, 2010)

The current fair market value in the hobby for a similar bike would depend on several factors including how complete and correct the bike is and if it is original or restored. Values on original bikes would obviously be based on condition while values on restored bikes would be based on the correctness and quality of the work done. 

While an actual transaction sale price has to meet somewhere on middle ground, the price asked by a seller and the price offered by a buyer are also often a distance apart to begin with.

Are you looking for one of these bikes or do you have one to sell?


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## Rookie (Jun 23, 2010)

This is my bike. It is an original, the only thing i see on the bike that needs work is missing a few spokes and back fender is deanted up some the bike rides fine. The frame is not pitted up and seems to be straight.


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## RMS37 (Jun 24, 2010)

Cleveland Welding produced two different pre-war straight bar frames of which the bike that started this post is one. Both of those bikes are uncommon to rare. The bike you have is a postwar straight bar (1950-early 1954) also built by Cleveland Welding but substantially different from either pre-war model and relatively common in the hobby.

The general price range in the hobby on the bike you have is about $50 to $150. With perfect original paint I still wouldn’t expect it to sell for more than $300.


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## rideon66 (Dec 9, 2011)

*CWC roadmaster*





Hi I was wondering if you anyone knew anything about this bike. The guy selling it said someone told him it was a 1941 CWC roadmaster. I want to find out more info on this particular bike. If the tank is correct or off of a Western flyer of same year. What it may be worth is the year correct ect. I actually bought it from him. I will be using it for my own riding pleasure. I want to fix anything that is really wrong as for as tank and frame go. Oh and if anyone knows where I could find the lens covers for the rear rack.

Here is a link to the ebay page.  With more info and details. 
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=330650401490


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