# 1935 Production CWC Bicycle Thread.



## CWCMAN (Feb 27, 2022)

The purpose of this thread is to document the different details of a 1935 production CWC bicycle compared to that of the 1936.

CWC started producing Bicycles around September 15, 1935. There was a yearly production estimate of 250,000 bikes per year or approximately 684 bikes per day.

My example pictured is serial A9082 which based on the production numbers above would make this bike build date in late September, early October of 1935.

Let's talk about the details which identify and separate these 1935 produced bikes from the 1936.

Both 35/36 bikes share the triple step rims, small paisley chain ring and the offset rear forks at the bottom bracket. However, where these 1935 production bikes differ is the use of the *snub nose front fender, one piece non riveted fender braces, Hexagon style seat clamp, riveted head badge and the non-drop out style front fork.* Also note that the paint scheme on these 1935 bikes is usually a solid base color with dual pins on the fenders. No fender darts were used.

Worth noting as well is the serial numbers. The CWC serial number chart lists X, A and Z as 1935-1936. I have seen many that were serialized as X and Z but none of those examples shared the early details. The two examples that I have are both "A" serial.

Please share and post your examples of the early 1935 production bicycles. No need to post any other years that do not have the details listed above. This thread is dedicated to 1935 CWC produced bicycles only.





Snub nose front fender



Riveted head badge



One piece non riveted fender braces. Rear



One piece non riveted fender braces. Front



Dual pins on fenders



Low production serial number A9082



Hexagon style seat clamp



Hexagon Seat clamp and nut


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## CWCMAN (Feb 27, 2022)

Another 1935 example. CWC Roadmaster shroud tank.



One piece non riveted fender braces



Snub nose front fender


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## mrg (Feb 27, 2022)

Ok, where does this bent tank frame ( you are familiar with it ), earlier that this model were supposed to be made, A612 # with offset BB, don't have any other parts to go by and not sure of the shimmed hex seat post clamp because they seem to differ a little in the 10 frames I looked at?


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## CWCMAN (Feb 28, 2022)

That’s the frame that I sold you. Yes very strange indeed that it’s very early production yet that bent tank model didn’t appear until 1937, at least in the sales catalogs.

I have seen the hexagon seat clamp into 1936, but I’m not sure when the cutoff was.
It is predominantly used in the 1935 produced bikes. By 1937 the seat clamp bolt was changed.

Mark, your early frame should be fitted with the same snub nose fenders and other parts as my roadster example above.


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## dogdart (Feb 28, 2022)

Early production would have been much less than your estimate.  It took over a year before the first 100,000 units,  and many of those went unsold till 1937.


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## CWCMAN (Feb 28, 2022)

*I am aware that the X,Z and A are basically the same as most 1936 models in terms of the off set forks at BB as well as the tripple step rims and small paisley chain ring.  However, as intended in this thread, I am trying to document the earliest of production bikes, 1935.

These bikes use the snub nose front fender as well as the one piece non rivet fender braces amongst other small details as outlined on post #1.

Your bike pictured does not share these early detail parts.

I am trying to document those bikes only.*


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## CWCMAN (Feb 28, 2022)

Please Folks, I would hate this thread to become like others that get muddied up with random bikes that don’t meet the criteria of the intent of this thread.

Again, this thread is to document only the earliest of production CWC bikes that share the same details as my examples on post #1 and 2.

Thank you


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## CWCMAN (Feb 28, 2022)

dogdart said:


> Early production would have been much less than your estimate. It took over a year before the first 100,000 units, and many of those went ynsold till 1937.



I’d like to know where you got that information. Please share your source.

The numbers that I posted are not my estimations but rather information that I retrieved from a printing announcing CWC’s entry into the bike manufacturing business.


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## dogdart (Feb 28, 2022)

CWCMAN said:


> I’d like to know where you got that information. Please share your source.



This chart , originally compiled by Phill Marshall has been widely excepted as the most accurate serial number chart. I have also studied Cleveland Welding bikes for many  years,  and have had a few dozen examples,  including  first series "A " bikes with hardware badges and 1937 equipment. This information is based upon observations , and intended to help understand Cleveland Welding bikes


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## CWCMAN (Feb 28, 2022)

I am aware of that chart, but that does not address the production number.


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## CWCMAN (Feb 28, 2022)

This document printed in American Bicyclist and Motorcyclist talked about the projected production numbers.


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## CWCMAN (Feb 28, 2022)

We can debate production numbers if you have any printed document that states otherwise.

What this thread needs are examples of bicycles, early 1935 examples that share the same fender and fender braces as my pictured examples above.


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## fordmike65 (Feb 28, 2022)

"The Cleveland Welding Company will make only ADULT sized bicycles for the present"  

Interesting..... 🤔


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## dogdart (Feb 28, 2022)

CWCMAN said:


> I am aware of that chart, but that does not address the production number.



With the exception of  an unknown number of 4 digit serial bikes, it is assumed that once they started with  the traditional numbering system,  that the first one may have been A00001 continuing through A99999 before starting with B00001. Each letter equates 100,000 units,  until after skipping "I" at K99999 and reaching one million units in late 1941 , they returned to "A". The chart shows the B series starting aprox 1937. The announcement in 1935 that the company was projected to produce 250,000 units annually,  is much exaggerated in hopes of promoting the new company.


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## CWCMAN (Feb 28, 2022)

Assumptions and conjecture is hardly gospel. But I get it.

This thread is specifically for the low 4 digit serial bikes and others with earlier serials.

Again, like my examples above. Please post any bikes that you have/had that meet this criteria.


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## dogdart (Apr 20, 2022)

I was perusing the CWC Wednesday thread,  when I came across this beautiful Speed King of @DonChristie , and thought it deserved a look


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## DonChristie (Apr 20, 2022)

dogdart said:


> I was perusing the CWC Wednesday thread,  when I came across this beautiful Speed King of @DonChristie , and thought it deserved a lookView attachment 1610314



I feel honored! Ha! The serial number on this one starts with “A”. I am a little confused what we are looking for on this bike?


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## dogdart (Apr 20, 2022)

DonChristie said:


> I feel honored! Ha! The serial number on this one starts with “A”. I am a little confused what we are looking for on this bike?



I can't  be sure by looking on my phone,  but it appears the front fender is shorter and the fender braces are lacking of rivets that attach the wheel mount end . The features noted in original post


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## CWCMAN (Apr 20, 2022)

It sure does look like the snub nose front fender. Don, does it have the non rivet one piece fender braces, also, does it have the four digit or lower serial number ?

The picture is kind of grainy to see the brace detail well.


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## CWCMAN (May 7, 2022)

?


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## DonChristie (May 7, 2022)

Hey @CWCMAN sorry it took so long to document my ride. Based on your post, mine appears to be a 35. All the specifics you pointed out are on mine, even the dual pins. Serial number is A2287.


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## CWCMAN (May 7, 2022)

Very nice. So far that makes two examples with the early characteristics.
With your four numeric digit serial, I’m wondering when the changes were made.


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## DonChristie (May 7, 2022)

So based on our numbers Eddie, @CWCMAN  ours could be months apart. Did they go to 5 digits after 9xxx? If so, are late 36s a 5 digit code?


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## CWCMAN (May 7, 2022)

Good question, the easy answer is, I don’t know.
Do you mean late 35? By late 36, I suspect that the early details would not be present.


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## dogdart (May 7, 2022)

DonChristie said:


> So based on our numbers Eddie, @CWCMAN  ours could be months apart. Did they go to 5 digits after 9xxx? If so, are late 36s a 5 digit code?



I have a theory based on Phil Marshall's findings,  that early production was possibly on 3 lines , X, Z, A, till they got to 10,000 or so units.  In the  CWC serial number thread,  he mentions that there were different changes that suggested the X and Z numbers were not predating A's but intermingled,  and I recall another post about not having A serials under 11000. That coupled with the known 4 numeral serial numbers has me thinking ....
Just a theory


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## szathmarig (Jun 4, 2022)

I have this early flat tank.


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## OSCAR...N... (Jun 4, 2022)

@ SZATHMARIG. 


Beautiful 😍 bike.!!!

Thanks.!!! for sharing 👍


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## szathmarig (Jun 4, 2022)




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## szathmarig (Jun 4, 2022)

Aside from the *snub nose front fender, one piece non riveted fender braces, Hexagon style seat clamp, riveted head badge and the non-drop out style front fork, *did anybody mention the truss rods on the earlier bikes? The "Flying V" fork had two different style truss rods, and the earlier just like on my green Flat Tank has the earlier style, and the later ones were curved.


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## szathmarig (Jun 4, 2022)

See the difference.


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## Billythekid (Jun 17, 2022)

I believe this fits here it’s on rat rod bikes if you want to look more he said it had red paint originally


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## CWCMAN (Jun 17, 2022)

I believe so too. Thanks for adding the pictures. Curious to know the serial number on this one


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