# LBS wheel building questions



## schwinnduke (Jun 25, 2020)

Hi,
I've just taken a pair of rims, hubs etc to be laced at a local to me bike shop and rather than intrigue I was greeted with negativity! The bike shop has a fairly decent reputation so I've left them with the wheels whilst they wait for answers to their issues:
Is it correct front and rear spokes are the same size/length?
How is the rear cog removed to be able to thread the spokes?
What spoke pattern is required?
I'm using 80s repop chrome S2s, New Departure DD, front Schwinn hub, and bicylebones 14g 10 5/8 spokes.
Any help appreciated to the above questions


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## Freqman1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Get your stuff back and do it yourself. They obviously have no clue. There are plenty of posts here for removing the hub guts and videos/post for lacing. V/r Shawn


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## schwinnduke (Jun 25, 2020)

Freqman1 said:


> Get your stuff back and do it yourself. They obviously have no clue. There are plenty of posts here for removing the hub guts and videos/post for lacing. V/r Shawn



This is typical of my luck! I've spent the last three months with time on my hands, I start back to work this week and bang! No spare time!!
Am I at least on the right track that my spokes are correct and 4x would be the pattern?
Removing the cog  - do I require special tools and/or a skip tooth chain whip?
Huge thanks


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## Freqman1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Your spokes are correct for this build and yes front and rear are the same. Four across--plenty of info to show you how to do this. On the sprocket side take off the locknut and cone nut and the sprocket side will unwind off the driver. This isn't rocket science even though the first couple of times will be a little trying. A skill, once learned, that will save you a lot of time and money down the road if you mess with this stuff very much. V/r Shawn


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## lounging (Jun 25, 2020)

get some of these.  If you can find a used truing stand it would save you money








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						Electronics, Cars, Fashion, Collectibles & More | eBay
					

Buy & sell electronics, cars, clothes, collectibles & more on eBay, the world's online marketplace. Top brands, low prices & free shipping on many items.



					rover.ebay.com


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## AndyA (Jun 25, 2020)

Shawn:
I agree completely with your post. However, you used a term that I fight to remove from the English language. There is no such thing as "rocket science." When you are designing, building, and launching rockets, that is not science; it is engineering. Amielle Major of the The Museum of Science, Boston provides these definitions: "Science is the body of knowledge that explores the physical and natural world. Engineering is the application of knowledge in order to design, build and maintain a product or a process that solves a problem and fulfills a need (i.e. a technology)." Wernher von Braun and the other Germans who came to the US after WW2 and started the US space program called themselves aerospace engineers. Note that scientists can do engineering and engineers can do science, but the focus of the activities is different.

Thank you for your attention. I feel better.


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## Freqman1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Sorry Andy—ok it’s not brain surgery!


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## AndyA (Jun 25, 2020)

Freqman1 said:


> Sorry Andy—ok it’s not brain surgery!



Well put! Thanks!


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## 100bikes (Jun 25, 2020)

So here are a couple things-
1- Different diameter flanges will use different length spokes for build- smaller flanges require 
    longer spokes for the same rim.
            1a- any two 26 rims will not necessarily use the same spoke lengths for a given hub.
2- More crosses mean longer spokes.
3- A hub with a lockring over the cog and no spokes is going to be more difficult to get the cog off off.

Generally, you can use the leverage of the wheel and a hook spanner to aid in removing the lockring 
and a chain whip to remove the threaded cog. Without spokes, it is tough to hold the hub and remove 
the lockring and cog.
           3a- Bendix with a snap ring is not an issue.

4- 10 5/8 are a pretty common length spokes, but you could use the spoke calculator(see 1 above)

Also- while there is something to be said for professionalism, in the US  most bicycle stores(LBS) are 
swamped with repairs. They are working long days just keeping up with mundane repairs. 
While we all think classic stuff is extremely cool, and our needs are no different - to most stores they 
create a challenge as it is stuff they don't see and work with on a regular basis. 
Please cut them a little slack.

rusty


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## Freqman1 (Jun 25, 2020)

Just to make sure you are straight--based on the info you supplied above concerning hubs, wheels, and spokes you are good with standard four across pattern. V/r Shawn


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## schwinnduke (Jun 25, 2020)

Freqman1 said:


> Just to make sure you are straight--based on the info you supplied above concerning hubs, wheels, and spokes you are good with standard four across pattern. V/r Shawn



Thanks Shawn,
You've put my mind to rest. Thanks so much for your help today,
Martin


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## FSH (Jun 26, 2020)

AndyA said:


> Shawn:
> I agree completely with your post. However, you used a term that I fight to remove from the English language. There is no such thing as "rocket science." When you are designing, building, and launching rockets, that is not science; it is engineering. Amielle Major of the The Museum of Science, Boston provides these definitions: "Science is the body of knowledge that explores the physical and natural world. Engineering is the application of knowledge in order to design, build and maintain a product or a process that solves a problem and fulfills a need (i.e. a technology)." Wernher von Braun and the other Germans who came to the US after WW2 and started the US space program called themselves aerospace engineers. Note that scientists can do engineering and engineers can do science, but the focus of the activities is different.
> 
> Thank you for your attention. I feel better.



Rockets are designed, in large part, by physicist.  Physicist are scientist.  Also, "rocket science" is in the Merriam Webster dictionary.  You might want to call them up and make your case.


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## FSH (Jun 26, 2020)

This video is easy to follow and it's fun.


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## Freqman1 (Jun 26, 2020)

Now I'm just waiting for a surgeon to chime in! V/r Shawn


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## Rivnut (Jun 26, 2020)

Wb67 said:


> I have a Murray possibly from late 70s or 80s? Some stickers removed but excellent condition. I would love help finding out what model etc this is. See pictures. Thanks so much.View attachment 1215124
> 
> View attachment 1215124View attachment 1215128
> 
> ...





FSH said:


> Rockets are designed, in large part, by physicist.  Physicist are scientist.  Also, "rocket science" is in the Miriam Webster dictionary.  You might want to call them up and make your case.



Just because we're getting so nit picky here, it's the "Merriam-Webster" dictionary.


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## FSH (Jun 26, 2020)

Rivnut said:


> Just because we're getting so nit picky here, it's the "Merriam-Webster" dictionary.



Thanks, swipe to text, you get the picture


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## Rivnut (Jun 26, 2020)

Some things that I learned about lacing wheels:
Save the old spokes - use them to measure for purchasing new ones. Keep the backs separate from the fronts in case they are different lengths
It helps if you count the number of crosses BEFORE unlacing.
Some factory lacings are just over-over-over; no under. Makes lacing a lot faster.
The Schwinn wheels I've done are opposite left and right of the stem hole as is shown in the referenced video.
It really helps if you have another like wheel to use as a reference.
It takes practice to get the valve stem hole between two parallel spokes. This is where having a like wheel comes in handy.
Be ready to unlace and restart
Don't get frustrated. It's not rocket science, or something best left for for a physicist, or a brain surgeon.


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## FSH (Jun 26, 2020)

Rivnut said:


> Some things that I learned about lacing wheels:
> Save the old spokes - use them to measure for purchasing new ones. Keep the backs separate from the fronts in case they are different lengths
> It helps if you count the number of crosses BEFORE unlacing.
> Some factory lacings are just over-over-over; no under. Makes lacing a lot faster.
> ...



You are a true rocket scientist of words my friend.


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## piercer_99 (Jun 27, 2020)

FSH said:


> Rockets are designed, in large part, by physicist.  Physicist are scientist.  Also, "rocket science" is in the Merriam Webster dictionary.  You might want to call them up and make your case.



Going to have to agree here 100%, my oldest brother, a now retired Astro-physicist, worked for NASA for 20- years, designing rockets.   He is a scientist, and designed rockets for a living, successfully.   I would never even broach the subject of telling him there is no such thing as rocket science although I would be willing to ask him if there is.  His job before that was 28 years in the Marine Corps. Started out looking through a sniper scope, finished up looking through large telescopes.


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## FSH (Jun 27, 2020)

piercer_99 said:


> Going to have to agree here 100%, my oldest brother, a now retired Astro-physicist, worked for NASA for 20- years, designing rockets.   He is a scientist, and designed rockets for a living, successfully.   I would never even broach the subject of telling him there is no such thing as rocket science although I would be willing to ask him if there is.  His job before that was 28 years in the Marine Corps. Started out looking through a sniper scope, finished up looking through large telescopes.



Imagine the stuff he has seen!  I would be interested on his take.  Either way "rocket scientist" is just a euphemism.  Tangentially, I have a few casting patterns from the Atlas rocket program.  And I worked in aerospace for about 15 years.  There is some cool stuff out there.  Thanks for sharing.


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## AndyA (Jun 27, 2020)

Ok, I have to wade in again to clarify. Piercer's brother is an astrophysicist (which means he is a scientist), but when he is designing rockets, the activity he is engaged in is rocket engineering, that is, applying scientific principles to design, build, and fly rockets. When he is exploring the nature of stars and other celestial bodies, and not designing rockets, he is engaged in the science of astrophysics. As I wrote earlier, scientists can do engineering and engineers can do science, but the focus of the activities is different. Science creates questions. Engineering creates solutions. The two approaches complement each other but shouldn't be confused.


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