# Excited about this Raleigh Lenton



## bikerbluz (Nov 28, 2018)

Picked up this project that was listed as a 1960’s Raleigh Grand Sport. After looking at it closely, I realized it was a Grand Prix, that is missing the Lenton part of the decal. Pretty complete and original, I think. I do not believe the derailleurs are original, though. Really cool bike that has set a long time. Got to reading everything I could find on these, I believe it was Bulldog, that recently redid one which came out fantastic. I think this one is either a 1960 or 1961. I am looking forward to getting some feedback from some members. I read after the Gran prix became the grand sport in 62, that they were not Reynolds 531 but were equipped with campy components. I wonder if this could be a late 61 and might explain the front derailleur?


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## LouB (Nov 28, 2018)

Very cool.  Yes 531 Reynolds tubing.  Classic example of the English club bicycle.  Mine came with all Cyclo-Benelux draileurs (half step crank), GB brakes, levers and handlebars.  Also a Brooks Swift B15 saddle.  Gotta have the coolest decal set ever!


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## bikerbluz (Nov 28, 2018)

Very nice!


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## rhm (Nov 28, 2018)

Congratulations Bikerbluz, that's a cool bike! Good condition all round.

These were the last Reynolds 531 frames built at the Nottingham plant. After the last Lenton Grand Prix left the building, Raleigh didn't build with 531.  When they started putting the Raleigh name on frames again, summer fine years later, they were made at the Carlton plant in Worksop.

I had one a Lenton Grand Prix as well, probably a 1958 one.  It was pretty tatty but I loved it.

The early ones (1958-?) had a lever operated Cyclo Benelux front derailleur, so only one brazed on shifter boss. I really liked the lever operated derailleur, in some ways one of the best front derailleurs I've ever used-- though of course it was shifting between 46t and 49t chain rings, and i really couldn't tell the difference. 

The original rear derailleur, a Cyclo Benelux four speed model, was trouble. They shift well if adjusted right, but no matter how stoutly built (a lot of steel!) they would bend if the bike fell on the right side. Once bent, the derailleur would shift into the spokes automatically. That's likely why you have a Frame rim and a Svelto derailleur!

The original rims were Dunlop Special Lightweight, 27". They were chromed steel but no heavier than most aluminum ones and really the nicest steel rims ever.  No matter how badly they got banged up, you could true then again. 

Looks like you have the original Racelite hubs, which are excellent.

The earlier ones had a Williams chainset (crankset) with Raleigh herons on the outer ring. I'm not knocking your crank, though. It is a Raleigh product, also quite nice. The Gran Sport you mentioned had the same crank.

I am puzzled by your brakes. I think those are the (very desirable) 1950-53 model. I believe the original brakes on your bike were more likely Weinmann 730's. Needless to say, I could be all wrong about that.


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## bulldog1935 (Nov 28, 2018)

Lenton Grand Prix were introduced in fall '56, and made the first catalog in '58.
I'm sure mine is a '57.
'61 was the last year, and they were replaced in the line with the '62 Gran Sport. 

I think Lou's '60 with 5-sp rear has the same brakes and definitely the same shifters, though Cyclo FD and RD.


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## bikerbluz (Nov 28, 2018)

Thanks everyone for the kind words and input. I had noticed that the brake levers on mine were different, more plain, then others I had seen. I wondered if the Fiame rims were replacements, and I remember reading somewhere that the 60, 61 models were supposed to have Weinmann 730’s on them. Although most I have seen still have had the GB brakes. Didn’t realize these were the last 531 frames built in Nottingham, pretty cool. I really enjoy digging into the history part of our hobby. Anyone know what year the campy front derailleur might be? The rear Huret is kind of strange and I’m not sure it is still usable.


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## anders1 (Nov 28, 2018)

Nice!!


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## bulldog1935 (Nov 29, 2018)

bikerbluz said:


> Thanks everyone for the kind words and input. I had noticed that the brake levers on mine were different, more plain, then others I had seen. I wondered if the Fiame rims were replacements, and I remember reading somewhere that the 60, 61 models were supposed to have Weinmann 730’s on them. Although most I have seen still have had the GB brakes. Didn’t realize these were the last 531 frames built in Nottingham, pretty cool. I really enjoy digging into the history part of our hobby. Anyone know what year the campy front derailleur might be? The rear Huret is kind of strange and I’m not sure it is still usable.



I would expect the Lenton to come with Dunlop steel rims - upgrade to alloy is a very typical and very smart move - really changes the nature of the bike.
Changing parts to make a bike better is a good thing - don't let the catalog-perfect mentality get you down.  Any bike that was loved and ridden was changed.
Velobase is always the first place to search parts - write the part and the word velobase in your google search
http://velobase.com/ListComponents.aspx?Category=113&BrandID=547f3aa0-e86c-41a3-b5a6-f75628ea75e7
Campy Gran Sport FD introduced in 1952.
Mine is a custom fast and versatile drivetrain, and attempt to make the top look correct.


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## bikerbluz (Nov 29, 2018)

Bulldog, thanks for all the info and advice. During the week I was waiting to get my bike I read everything I could find on the Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix. Your makeover of your splendid machine was an inspiration for me. Is that a Brooks Swallow on yours?


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## bulldog1935 (Nov 29, 2018)

yes, I love them for drop-bar bikes - most invisible saddle I've ever ridden.  Especially on the aggressive riding position of the Lenton.
Swallow (B15) was also the stock saddle on Lentons.  
btw, whatever you paid for the bike, the Campy FD is probably worth the full amount.


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## bikerbluz (Nov 29, 2018)

I fell in love with the Raleigh and probably paid too much, $275. Shipped. But I am ok with that. Are the Swallows still available new? I have a B-15 and tool bag I think is going on it. Good to know about the campy. Hey Bulldog would you be able to get me a year with the serial number? Sn# 31146 RA. I think it is probably a 61.


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## bulldog1935 (Nov 29, 2018)

here you go, Modern Bike - Andy is good people
https://www.modernbike.com/product-2126212940

I rode mine this morning




and my favorite BBQ stand along the greenway had poppers - these usually sell out - also, their ribs are award-winning, and better than Luling City Market.


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## juvela (Nov 29, 2018)

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Thanks very much for sharing this fascinating find.

Do our Tube Investments experts know the years/models on which this fork crown cap was employed?

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## bikerbluz (Nov 29, 2018)

Thanks for the link Bulldog, and that food is making my mouth water. Hey Juvela, I am by no means an expert, but from what I have read that fork crown cap was only on this model and only for 1960 and 1961.


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## bulldog1935 (Nov 29, 2018)

I'm pretty sure the use of 531 (straight gauge) in both this frame and the earlier Raleigh Record Ace (1947-54) are only in the main triangle.
Making the top-grade production frames of the 50s closer to the Super Course of the 70s rather than the Pro or International.



 



Certainly the forks are all-Raleigh, and the rear triangles are TI tubing (same with the Super Course).  The drop-outs, of course, are stamped (also Super Course).



 



There were a few examples of Raleigh Record Ace custom factory racers as late as 1956 that used butted 531, 531 forks and stays, Nervar lugs, and Campy dropouts.
You can also tell these RRA's because they're wearing chrome socks.


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## bikerbluz (Nov 29, 2018)

I have a 86 Grand Prix that is double butted 531, and has an upgraded set of wheels on it. Got it from a friend whom bought it new. One of my better riding and quicker bikes. And like the one I just bought, it will remain with me till I am gone.


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## bikerbluz (Nov 29, 2018)

Hey Bulldog, really like your water bottle cages, too.


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## bulldog1935 (Nov 29, 2018)

Those are Nitto T (for touring).  I found them on-line for half-price in a CA consignment shop.  
They copy the old Coloral cages, but with that top extension that makes them grab a modern bottle better.  



They're held on with king-cage universal support bolts, which are a stainless hose clamp with stud-welded M5s.


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## bulldog1935 (Dec 1, 2018)

I'm going to add again, whoever owned your Lenton loved it and rode it.
The upgrades he made to the derailleurs and rims were conscious choices to keep riding it while others were buying newer bikes.
The upgrade to alloy rims improved the response of the bike, its climbing ability, and especially the braking. 
His changes might have ruined the bike for some collectors, but you got a better bike for them. 

The catalog-perfect thing created the market for parting out historic bikes.  When I tackled my Lenton bare frame, I knew it would cost as much to hunt down the original Williams crank, wheels, derailleurs, etc. in the buy-back market, as it would to design and build my custom.  I ended up with a better bike for it.




@LouB a project for you might be to take the rims you just removed from your Charrel, and have them rebuilt on your Lenton hubs (you've already changed gearing and RD).
Those wide rims would go great with the reach and travel of the GB brakes.
Wheelbuilding charges at Howard's shop are much less than most, and the work quality is higher than most.  
Also, you can't simply swap out wheels, because the axles on the Charrel wheelset are too big to fit the Lenton dropouts.


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## rhm (Dec 1, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> I'm pretty sure the use of 531 (straight gauge) in both this frame and the earlier Raleigh Record Ace (1947-54) are only in the main triangle....
> You can also tell these RRA's because they're wearing chrome socks.




The post war RRA was full 531. Butted frame tubes, forks, stays. I used to have one, and the frame was one of the lightest frames in my size I've ever weighed. Specifically I have two that are lighter, which I believe to be Accles&Pollock "Kromo". They weigh 68 and 69 oz (bare frame, no fork). The RRA was 72 oz. Other 531 frames were in the 74-78 range.

As for the original rims on the Lenton Grand Prix, it's a moot point since this one doesn't have them. That said, aluminum rims are generally an upgrade over steel, but Dunlop Special Lightweight rims are really an exception, especially if we're taking about 27" aluminum rims from the early 60's. 

I grant you that aluminum gives better braking, especially in wet conditions, but that is really the only advantage they offered.


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## rhm (Dec 1, 2018)

bikerbluz said:


> ... Are the Swallows still available new? I have a B-15 and tool bag I think is going on it. ....




If you want an early 60's swallow, you might send me a private message. I have two, I think, that I restored. That is, they are early 60's frames with original hardware, but new leather.   Whether they are as good as recent production Brooks, I think I am not the one to judge. But I certainly try to make a better saddle than what Brooks is putting out these days.


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## bulldog1935 (Dec 1, 2018)

Postwar RRA's varied in weight from 19 lbs to 27-1/2 lbs.


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## Mr.RED (Dec 2, 2018)

Those poppers and all those beautiful Lentons look so awesome. Bulldogs Lenton is one my favorite bikes on this site.  Very nice find


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## rhm (Dec 3, 2018)

Did anyone provide a link to this article? Mr. Kohler knows a lot more about the Lenton series than I.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/lenton-kohler.html

One more note on the RRA and Lenton Grand Prix...  As I mentioned, I used to have a Lenton Grand Prix, but a friend liked it and I agreed to sell it.  As was mentioned above, it had straight gauge 531 tubing on the main triangle and thin taper seat stays; the fork was 2030 steel.  I don't have many photos of the bike...





I replaced it with a 1948 RRA that I bought as a bare frame.  I built it up as close to "correct" as I could, and really liked the way it rode.  I rode many centuries on it with a four speed (FW) hub.  But the RRA "should" have a lot of special parts made just for that model, made in-house at the Raleigh plant, and basically unobainable today.  I found it just too frustrating to not have the "correct" parts.  I don't mean to be obsessive about this kind of thing, but recognizing that tendency, I moved that bike on as well.

After I sold the RRA I decided to have a custom frame made, made specially to fit 26 x 2.3 road tires.  The builder asked for the geometry and measurements I wanted, so I just gave him all the measurements from my RRA frame.  So the custom frame I've been riding for the last two years, several thousand miles now, is in fact a copy of the RRA geometry. The Lenton Grand Prix geometry was very similar.


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## bulldog1935 (Dec 3, 2018)

that is worth a photo

It's kind of funny the way stashing bike parts works.  I bought the NOS Coloral bag support and found it wouldn't help for my purpose where I wanted to use it.
Immediate buyer's remorse.  Decided it was hideous, would never disgrace one of my bikes, and hid it on a shelf.
The bag on my Lenton is the recent Brooks Millbrook - I tried the earlier copy of the (faux) leather boxes, which didn't work at all with my saddle position - sold that to a happy Mike for what I paid.



After the Milbrook fabric bag began to sag under the weight of necessary tools, went to the shelf and pulled down the Coloral bag support.
Instant reconciliation and perfect touch on my Lenton. (there's extra-thick helicopter tape inside those clamps)



Also, that completely wrong LaPrade seatpost was on my '76 Grand Prix for 30+ years.  It was a 26.2mm that I turned on a lathe to 25.7 just to my ride height.
It felt good to fit it on the Lenton.

Not much stock on this bike, Sugino Mighty Comp crank (the original pressed crank stripped on Austin hills), Shimano 600 derailleurs, much narrower SunTour freewheel than stock, and the spirit-changing Zeus/Rigida wheelset - oh, and Zeus DT shifters for jewelry.  
This was only the first rebuild over its 40-years on the road.


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## rhm (Dec 3, 2018)

bulldog1935 said:


> that is worth a photo
> 
> It's kind of funny the way stashing bike parts works.  ...




Well, it's seriously off-topic (the bike is only two years old now!) but if you promise not to tell anyone I posted it here...
https://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2018/10/2018-french-fender-day-and-future-of.html








Speaking of stashing bike parts... are those Bluemels Lightweight mudguards on your bike?  At one point I bought three pairs of those on eBay and stashed them for a while.  I eventually used one pair and sold the other two.  I have a faint suspicion you ended up with one of them.


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## bulldog1935 (Dec 3, 2018)

_al dente_ touch with the wrap-around seatstay and seriously low-trail fork - looks like a cozy fast bike

Those are RW Clipper - Lou and I bought the last two pair a French ebay vendor had in stock.


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## mongeese (Dec 5, 2018)




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## bikerbluz (Dec 5, 2018)

Beautiful bike Mongeese. Great paint and decals. Do you know what year it is?


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## bulldog1935 (Dec 7, 2018)

before the Lenton, Raleigh made a tourist version RRA, as well.  I hadn't seen a Lenton tourist, but that's a beauty and what a collectible bike. 
These two ought to be the highest aspiration of tourist collectors
1948 catalog






Here you go, Model No. 27, cataloged 1952-58, so best guest is No. 29 to replace the earlier Lenton Tourist
Curious whether it has a Reynolds decal.
https://on-the-drops.blogspot.com/2016/12/raleigh-super-lenton-rra-moderne-1952.html

from available online catalogs, can only find the '51 Lenton Tourist - there's a dearth of online Raleigh catalogs from 1951 to '58 - maybe @dnc1  can find something in UK...


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## juvela (Dec 7, 2018)

bikerbluz said:


> Thanks everyone for the kind words and input. I had noticed that the brake levers on mine were different, more plain, then others I had seen. I wondered if the Fiame rims were replacements, and I remember reading somewhere that the 60, 61 models were supposed to have Weinmann 730’s on them. Although most I have seen still have had the GB brakes. Didn’t realize these were the last 531 frames built in Nottingham, pretty cool. I really enjoy digging into the history part of our hobby. Anyone know what year the campy front derailleur might be? The rear Huret is kind of strange and I’m not sure it is still usable.




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As regards machine's mechs -

front is Campag Gran Sport Nr. 1005/2 which was produced 1951-67.

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?i.d.=E74DA6A5-06D3-4994-8005-74B3BFE6FA68&Enum=113&AbsPos=25










it was succeeded during 1968 in a very slightly revised form by the Valentino Nr. 2050.

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?i.d.=9C598BF7-AED6-4081-8946-60F857838637&Enum=113&AbsPos=48








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the Huret Svelto rear mech is item Nr. 1965/1966 and launched 1963.




(1966 catalogue page illustrates the second generation version, as seen on your cycle)

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Huret_Svelto_derailleur_1st_style.html

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Huret_derailleurs.html

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## mongeese (Dec 7, 2018)

bikerbluz said:


> Beautiful bike Mongeese. Great paint and decals. Do you know what year it is?



1956 
Only to add to the confusion probably.


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## bulldog1935 (Dec 7, 2018)

no confusion, that fits just right


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