# Monark Five Bar Four Bar Superframe 5 Bar 4 bar Thread



## Freqman1 (Aug 25, 2012)

Yea the title looks kinda crazy but the search feature of this forum needs all the help it can get. At the suggestion of another member I am going to start a thread on the discussion of these bikes whereby hopefully we can contribute to the shallow body of knowledge that exist on these bikes. This thread is for Monark superframe bikes built between approx 1939-41 (primarily Monark and Spiegel). There was tremendous variety as there are two different springers and several different frames between both girls and boys bikes. Please post pics if you have them. Areas where I see a need for info is serial # and location, seat post binders, chrome or painted chassis seat frames on which models, paint schemes/colors, handlebars and stems between models, and light variations among others. I will start adding my stuff this weekend and hopefully we can all learn a lot more about these unique and interesting bicycles. V/r Shawn


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## Freqman1 (Aug 26, 2012)

*Mens Frames*

OK lets start with the frame on these. First the reference I use is the revised (Jul 2012) Monark Book by John Pollizzi. 

It appears there are three types and I believe all are 19". The first is the tank frame used on Models M604, M604X, and GT495. A couple of notes here. First is serial # location. I have three of these frames. Two have the serial # (061476 and 088097) on the dropout and one has it underneath the crank hanger stamped into the tube (126590). The ones on the drop out are small regular spaced #s but the "0" looks like a "C" due to a week stamp on the right side of the zero. These #s do not agree with any serial # info I have for Monark. The second note regarding these frames is that the one with the number on the bottom does not have the built in seat post binder. 

The second style frame is found on models M602/600 which are the non-tank models. I do not have one of these so can't shed much light on them.

The third style is the non-tank loop tail frame found on both mens and ladies models. The book shows the 1940 Airman (Spiegel) models. I do not know if the mens model was built with a tank. The reason I mention this is I have a ladies (Monark badge) loop tail with tank. Does anyone have a mens looptail tank model? 

I would like to hear from others regarding the mens frames. Next time I'll cover the ladies frames. V/r Shawn


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## 1918 Ranger (Aug 27, 2012)

Hello

The below pics are before and after of my Monark 5 bar built for and badged Hawthorne. It is the other style 5 bar frame that the down tubes go into the crank housing instead of a wrap around bottom of housing like yours are. 

Seems to me that both especially your style of frame is pretty rare. They are beautiful frames. 









1918 Ranger


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## RMS37 (Aug 27, 2012)

This is the H.P. Snyder built version of the 5-Bar Hawthorne and it is not Monark built. All of the Monark built versions feature the cradled crank hanger. Both Snyder and Cleveland Welding (several differences also separate the 5-bar frames built by these two manufacturers) versions of the bike are constructed along more conventional lines. 



1918 Ranger said:


> Hello
> 
> The below pics are before and after of my Monark 5 bar built for and badged Hawthorne. It is the other style 5 bar frame that the down tubes go into the crank housing instead of a wrap around bottom of housing like yours are.
> 
> ...


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## Freqman1 (Aug 27, 2012)

Thanks Phil,
    I don't want to get into the other twinbar makes/frames out there to include Elgin-Westfield/Murray/Snyder. V/r Shawn


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## Rookie (Aug 27, 2012)

Please bare with me on the backdrop.

Newly acquired 1939 Monark 4-Bar.


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## fordsnake (Aug 27, 2012)

My Monark 5 bar is similar to yours, same color scheme (blue with red darts). The serial numbers are hand stamped underneath the crank hanger. The first character is hard to discern...but with a jewelers loupe, it reads A44295, it also has no seat post binder.


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## Andrew Gorman (Aug 27, 2012)

Here is a lousy picture of a tankless 5 bar with a Hawthorne badge:
http://s53.photobucket.com/albums/g72/gormanao/?action=view&current=5Bar.jpg
Aluminum bars,fenders and pie plate chainguard.


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## 10~18kustoms (Aug 27, 2012)

Shawn thanks for getting this thread started.  I don't know much, but here is my 3 cents on the Superframe 4 Bar/5bar subject.  The first is my girls, it's a  '41 or '42 I think.  As stated in the other thread it has the later style 2 spring Monark fork and a standard style seat post clamp.  S# is C83791 or could be a 083791.





the 2nd one I'm guessing is a '39 or '40 since it has the early fork w/ the horizontal spring and the seat post is a clincher style. S# is C59069.  We refer to it as the doner bike, it was someone elses project and is in parts and primer, but has most of the missing stuff we need to restore the Airman.







 

3rd, is the Airman.  It is late '39 I'm told and was called the Comet as shown in the '39 Spiegel Catalog.  I have yet to find a S# on it since it has the rare rear suspension and no numbers are stamped on the rear yoke/dropout area where most other numbers were found, and the under crank area where other numbers have been found is heavily coated with grease and dirt at this point.  We do plan to start a careful clean up and teardown for restoration next month, so I will post any numbers if found.


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## 1918 Ranger (Aug 27, 2012)

RMS37 said:


> This is the H.P. Snyder built version of the 5-Bar Hawthorne and it is not Monark built. All of the Monark built versions feature the cradled crank hanger. Both Snyder and Cleveland Welding (several differences also separate the 5-bar frames built by these two manufacturers) versions of the bike are constructed along more conventional lines.




You are correct.  This is a Snyder built frame made exclusively for Hawthorne and Montgomery Wards. I had forgotten this to be the case and I'm sure a frequent mistake made because of the similarities in the Monark and Snyder built frames. Thanks for the reminder. 


1918 Ranger


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## Freqman1 (Aug 28, 2012)

10~18kustoms said:


> Shawn thanks for getting this thread started.  I don't know much, but here is my 3 cents on the Superframe 4 Bar/5bar subject.  The first is my girls, it's a  '41 or '42 I think.  As stated in the other thread it has the later style 2 spring Monark fork and a standard style seat post clamp.  S# is C83791 or could be a 083791.
> 
> [the 2nd one I'm guessing is a '39 or '40 since it has the early fork w/ the horizontal spring and the seat post is a clincher style. S# is C59069.  We refer to it as the doner bike, it was someone elses project and is in parts and primer, but has most of the missing stuff we need to restore the Airman.
> 
> ...


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## Freqman1 (Aug 28, 2012)

*Girls Four Bar Frames*

There is even less literature on the girls bikes than the boys. Like the boys models it appears there are a few different varieties of frames to include non-tank, tank, and loop tail models with and without tank. The literature for '39 shows just the non-tank frame. The bike Rookie has (see his pics in previous post) appears to be a Model GT 496. In addition there was Model ML603X with the pencil springer and Model ML601 which was a non springer bike.  

Although I have no literature to back it up I think the tank frame wasn't introduced until '40. If anyone has an original pencil springer tank girls bike then this would probably invalidate that thought. I have a loop tail tank bike (serial # 11308 stamped on the bottom tube) with dual headlights which is a lot like the Airman Deluxe "Streamliner" which doesn't have a tank. I have a regular frame bike with the tank type frame although it is a truss rod bike so I don't think it ever had a tank (serial #C89615 on dropout). I believe the serial # on Rookie's bike is A33955 so I have no rhyme or reason on how the serial #s run. Maybe if we can get enough bikes some of this will fall into place. My last note on the frames which goes for boys as well is that all have the built in 'ears' for a dropstand even though there were three different types of stands used on these bikes. The stands (and other components) will be covered in a future post. V/r Shawn


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## Freqman1 (Aug 28, 2012)

Freqman1 said:


> OK lets start with the frame on these. First the reference I use is the revised (Jul 2012) Monark Book by John Pollizzi.
> 
> It appears there are three types and I believe all are 19". The first is the tank frame used on Models M604, M604X, and GT495. A couple of notes here. First is serial # location. I have three of these frames. Two have the serial # (061476 and 088097) on the dropout and one has it underneath the crank hanger stamped into the tube (126590). The ones on the drop out are small regular spaced #s but the "0" looks like a "C" due to a week stamp on the right side of the zero. These #s do not agree with any serial # info I have for Monark. The second note regarding these frames is that the one with the number on the bottom does not have the built in seat post binder.
> 
> ...




Oh yea I need to add the uber rare dual suspension frame to the mix--see Marty's bike.


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## 10~18kustoms (Aug 29, 2012)

Freqman1 said:


> I would like to see a close-up of a standard seat post binder--not the built in pinch binder. Lastly I would like to know how wide those handlebars measure on the dual suspension bike and are they marked anywhere?




Here are a few close up pictures of the two types of seat posts.  The first picts are the style on both the earlier mens 5 bar frames.  They do not have a split or bolt in the seat post tube and require the use of a clincher style post.  








the girls 4 bar uses a more standard split and bolt design. Sorry the pictures arn't the greatest.








The bars on the Airman are 30" wide at the grips, with a 12 inch pullback and about 2 1/2 inch rise.  I have not found any stamping on them yet as it is probably under the grips.  They do appear to be the same bars shown on the Comet in the 39 Spiegel catalog page, but our stem is not correct.  I will let you know if I find any markings when we start the teardown.


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## Freqman1 (Aug 29, 2012)

Thanks Marty,
    I guess I need to add that seat post and shim to my want list fo rmy build! So are those bars the same as used on other pre war bikes like the Schwinns? V/r Shawn


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## Adamtinkerer (Aug 29, 2012)

Here's mine, I don't know if the seat tube is cut off or supposed to look like that.


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## Freqman1 (Aug 29, 2012)

That one's been cut. It should have about an inch above the frame tubes. V/r Shawn


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## yeshoney (Aug 29, 2012)

*Here is mine*

I do not have the fenders, seat, rack or bars/stem.  There is no serial anywhere that I can find.  Been over it with a fine tooth comb and checked anywhere there might be thick repaint.  Nada, nothing, nil.


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## Freqman1 (Sep 4, 2012)

*Forks*

There were three forks used for the Four/Five Bars. A standard truss rod non-springer ('39-40), a horizontal 'pencil' springer ('39), and a dual spring vertical springer ('40). It appears to me they are interchangeable between the boys and girls as the deadtubes measure about 5" on both. For the lower trim and non-tank boys model a standard truss rod non-springer fork was used. The '39 springer models used what I call a 'pencil' springer. This arrangement has a fairly small horizantal spring coming staight out from the fork and the truss rods are only half length as they stop at the springer instead of continuing to the axle. From the book it appears that all the '39s used this type springer and with the introduction of the '40 models (or sometime in '40) Monark changed to the dual vertical springer they used through about 1953. The head tube on the postwar bikes is the same size as pre-wars so these springers would appear to be interchangeable. I don't have a postwar dual spring set-up so I'm not sure if there are differences between pre/post war dual springers. The book is pretty light on the '40/'41 models and it doesn't appear that the Four/Five bar frames were carried into '41. There is a "Superframe" model listed but htis appears to be a single bar frame. If anyone has '41 literature showing a Four/Five bar please share. V/r Shawn


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## BicycleBill (Sep 5, 2012)

*My 5 Bar*

Great subject, These bikes are so rare and under-appreciated. I thought I would upload photos of my 1939 (I think) Monark 5-Bar. It's all original and came out of a storage unit as a time capsule. Love the colors.


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## Freqman1 (Sep 9, 2012)

Bill,
    That's a fantastic survivor! Could you please provide the serial#? My guess is that is it stamped on the tube under the crank hanger and may start with an "A".  If its not there look on the left rear drop out. The handlebars kinda look like the girls bars? Thanks for sharing. I plan to add more soon and hopefully more folks will contribute as my well is a little shallow!


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## fordsnake (Sep 22, 2012)

I went down to my gargage to check on a seat clamp for Dave Marko, and I got side tracked looking through some of my boxes. Here's my 5 bar project I had boxed up, maybe one day I'll get around to working on it. 






















This was the frame used to illustrate the darts and pinstriping on Dave's Nostalgic Net
http://www.nostalgic.net/arclister.php?s=arc/Paint%20Layouts/Monark%205-bar/monark%205%20bar%20paint%20layout%206.jpg


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## Freqman1 (Oct 16, 2012)

For those of you that were following this thread I have not abandoned it but have been pretty busy with work and school. I am also currently away on business for two weeks. I do have some new info to share including a new frame variation and some observations on the badges as well as getting to the rest of the bike to include bars, stems, seats/posts, hubs, fenders, lighting, etc... Fordsnake that is a quite a nice project. I notice you have a set of the Musselman high flange hubs as well. My girls four bar has the front and I just acquired a set of front and rear for my project. The rear hub seems to be especially difficult to find. So far I have only seen the front hub used on four/five bars does anyone know what other bicycles these were used on? V/r Shawn


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## fordsnake (Oct 16, 2012)

Freqman1 said:


> ... Fordsnake that is a quite a nice project. I notice you have a set of the Musselman high flange hubs as well. My girls four bar has the front and I just acquired a set of front and rear for my project. The rear hub seems to be especially difficult to find. So far I have only seen the front hub used on four/five bars does anyone know what other bicycles these were used on? V/r Shawn




I was lucky to find 'em...I bought them last year from another CABE member. They're NOS and have never been installed on rims.


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## bike (Nov 13, 2012)

*5 bar resto Dave Stroberger*

http://www.nostalgic.net/bicycle289 vedddy nice


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## cyclonecoaster.com (Nov 13, 2012)

*Does anyone have a set of these high flange Olympic hubs for sale ??*



fordsnake said:


> I was lucky to find 'em...I bought them last year from another CABE member. They're NOS and have never been installed on rims.




Thought I would ask here - since this is the bike they are needed for -- if you have some for sale - I am looking for my 5 bar project -- RIDE VINTAGE -- Frank


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## Buster1 (Nov 13, 2012)

There was a 5-bar here for sale a while back, I wrote the seller and heard not much back.  I may still ping him again and see.

What kind of Value do these 5-bars have.  Complete and crusty vs fully fixed up?


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## catfish (Nov 16, 2012)

cyclonecoaster.com said:


> Thought I would ask here - since this is the bike they are needed for -- if you have some for sale - I am looking for my 5 bar project -- RIDE VINTAGE -- Frank




Musselman high flange hubs -------------

I have an NOS set. But they are not cheap.   Catfish


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## Freqman1 (Dec 13, 2012)

*Head set shrinkage*

Ok so not really shrinkage but if you ever deal with these frames--ladies or mens you will notice that no matter what headset you try they will all be too small in diameter for the headtube. I finally pulled my original girls bike apart to see what the deal was. Its kinda hard to see in the previous post of the bike in parts but if you look closely at the headset someone made some shims. This is exactly what the factory did. It appears these are about the thickness of a soup can which is exactly what I intend to use. I am attaching some pics of the factory bottom cup and you can see the shim which the factory spot welded to the cup. I'll probably just use a little JB Weld--it just needs to hold it in place enough to get it in the headtube. I hope this helps those of you that have faced this. I'll probably do some more posting on this thread over the holidays. V/r Shawn


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## yeshoney (Dec 13, 2012)

*Well*

That explains that.  Was gonna shim it as a last resort but I gotta little better idea.  I have an old set of Elgin square shoulder cups that have a lot of meat on them so I am gonna file them until they fit.  I think that this will be an easier fix from a permanency perspective, but both methods will certainly work.

THanks for the pics and research!

Joe


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## 10~18kustoms (Jan 23, 2013)

*Loop Tail*

I picked up this '40 or '41 Monark 4 bar Airman loop tail over the weekend from my friend Tim (65rat). It's a bit crusty and it didn't come easy, I had to let go of my Swing bike in trade but now I have 4 of the Monark 4 bar - 5 bar models. The mens Airman Comet twin suspention 5 bar, a regular mens Monark 5 bar, both 39's with the pencil front fork. A 41 girls Monark regular 4 bar w/the later Monark fork, and now this loop tail Airman 4 bar. Now just need to get them restored..ouch!


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## Freqman1 (Jan 24, 2013)

Thanks for the post Marty. I plan on updating this thread this weekend. Hopefully next week sometime I will have my new Five Bar (original paint). I'm still riding the fence on what to do with my project though. I may just go ahead and do the resto since I have all the parts now. Just not sure I need two Five Bars. Of course if you ever want to cut loose of the full suspension bike I'll kick something out of the house to make room! Congrats on a nice find. I believe earlier in theis post I show a pic of my girls tank loop tail. These are pretty rare bikes--would like to see a boys version in the thread as well. V/r Shawn


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## scrubbinrims (Jul 25, 2013)

"Superframe" Shawn,
This 6-hole skirted rack is from a Monark I believe and around the time of the 5-bars, 4-bars...is this correct on any of these models?
Chris


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## crazycrawler (Jul 25, 2013)

Hello, new to this site. I have a 5 bar I'm trying to restore and get info for. Does anyone know if these bikes were ever equipped with skip tooth sprockets from the factory?

Thanks,
Ed


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## Freqman1 (Jul 25, 2013)

crazycrawler said:


> Hello, new to this site. I have a 5 bar I'm trying to restore and get info for. Does anyone know if these bikes were ever equipped with skip tooth sprockets from the factory?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ed




Hey Ed,
    The answer to your question is no. All the Five/Four bars I have seen and the literature for these indicate 1/2 pitch chains. It sure would help if you could post a pic of your bike so I could see the frame to make sure we're talking about the same type of bike. Does yours have a Monark badge on it. What forks does it have?  V/r Shawn


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## Freqman1 (Jul 25, 2013)

scrubbinrims said:


> "Superframe" Shawn,
> This 6-hole skirted rack is from a Monark I believe and around the time of the 5-bars, 4-bars...is this correct on any of these models?
> Chris
> View attachment 105966View attachment 105967View attachment 105968




Hey Chris,
   I believe this rack was introduced about '41 and was used on most Monark models that year. Like it's predecessor I have seen it with both a reflector and with a canister taillight. The previous racks were the ubiquitous McCauley racks used on so many bikes of the era and I think this may be McCauley as well. Attached is a pic of a sweet '41 that Marc (eazywind) sold in April of this year--I believe this is the same rack. V/r Shawn


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## crazycrawler (Jul 25, 2013)

Hi, here is the frame. It has a 1/2" pitch sprocket, which I believe is original, but I thought I saw a picture of one, I think a 1939 model with a skip tooth arrangement.


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## tanno (Jul 27, 2013)

*Should it be possible to find a handlebar for my 5bar??*

I like to buy a handlebar for my Monark 5bar, the one you can mount on two ways, the one with the crossbar, that have the same measurement as the bars itself.
Impossible???
Got my bike almost done, but the bars....
Was it an accecoire or standard......
Thanks.....
Tanno


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## Freqman1 (Jul 27, 2013)

tanno said:


> I like to buy a handlebar for my Monark 5bar, the one you can mount on two ways, the one with the crossbar, that have the same measurement as the bars itself.
> Impossible???
> Got my bike almost done, but the bars....
> Was it an accecoire or standard......
> ...




These bars were standard on some Five Bars but not all but for some reason seem to be pretty scarce. I do not know of any for sale at the moment and there are a few people, including myself, looking for a pair of these. There were actually a couple other bars used besides these to include the scout and long horn bars. The "can't slip" stem was on most Five Bars but not all and was used with all styles of handlebars. The bottom line unless you just have to have a set of these bars you could go with one of the others and probably be ok. Could you post a picture of your bike? That may give me a better idea of what you could use. V/r Shawn


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## geech34-2nd (Jul 27, 2013)

*1940 5 bar*

Found this at a Fort Worth swap meet several years ago. Itsa 1940 I think.  Serial number is on the LH rear drop out but can't read it---too full of paint, very small digits. Pics before & after restoration. Took a while to find the 2 piece stem & the bars to fit the stem.


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## Freqman1 (Jul 27, 2013)

Nice bike! The stems can be a little hard to find but the two position bars are nearly impossible. I currently have three of these in various stages of restoration and all three will be different models. I also have an original paint bike as well. V/r Shawn


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## Freqman1 (Aug 10, 2013)

*Monograph*

I am in between semesters so I'm making a serious effort on the monograph I've been working on for the Five/Four Bars. I have already asked a couple of people for some additional photos--it will be pic heavy. I'm approaching this by breaking the bike down by component and explaining what parts/configurations are known to be used. If anyone has original paint bikes (boys or girls) I would be interested in overall pics as well as component pics such as seats/stems/racks/lights/etc... . This is only for the Monark built bikes and I'm excluding the tankless Monark boys Five Bar (most girls didn't have tanks). You can send images to Oldbikeguy1@hotmail.com. I will acknowledge all contributions that I use. I plan on asking Scott to post as an article on this site and will probably ask Dave S. to post on his site as well for the benefit of all. Thanks, Shawn


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## scrubbinrims (Aug 12, 2013)

My email bounced back as maybe the files were too large, resending without out the pics attached here.
Chris


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## widpanic02 (Aug 13, 2013)

*!*

I have a 1938 monark made Elgin that has that rack and the only other one I have seen buzz bomb bicycles has in their collection and it has the same rack. So I don't know about monark badged bikes but my 38' has that rack .


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## kingfish254 (Nov 17, 2013)

I have this Hawthorne version headed my way.
http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showth...r-5-Bar-Curved-Second-Bar-Meet-you-at-the-bar


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## Freqman1 (Nov 17, 2013)

kingfish254 said:


> I have this Hawthorne version headed my way.
> http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showth...r-5-Bar-Curved-Second-Bar-Meet-you-at-the-bar




This thread is about the Monark/Airman badged Five Bars which is a completely different frame than yours. V/r Shawn


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## fordsnake (Nov 17, 2013)

Shawn, your comment sounds like you're trying ostracize (i know you're not). Instead why not share with Kingfish and others the differences between the bikes?


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## Freqman1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Sorry didn't mean to be snippy. Please see post 4 of this thread where Phil points out the differences. In post 5 I'm trying to maintain this thread as strictly for the Monark/Airman Five Bars. V/r Shawn


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## kingfish254 (Nov 18, 2013)

No worries. No offense taken. 
Sorry for jumping in the wrong thread.  Lots of great info here.


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## Freqman1 (Jan 10, 2014)

*Five Bar Monograph*

Ok folks I finally finished my Five Bar monograph. I would like to thank all those that originally contributed to this thread as I incorporated most of the info into the paper. I noticed that I missed an acknowledgement in the paper and that is for the pics of the Wingbar butterfly stand provided by Chris (scrubbinrims). I also need to thank my girlfriend Heidi for helping me with a proofread and edit. Lastly I would like to thank Scott M. (CABE owner) and Dave Stromberger (site admin) for posting the article. The article is located on the home page  http://thecabe.com/monark-five-bar/  I hope this leads to others sharing their knowledge on other models of interest. V/r Shawn


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## Talewinds (Jan 10, 2014)

Terrific job! Looks great!


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## cyclonecoaster.com (Jan 10, 2014)

*Great Five Bar monograph Shawn ....*



Freqman1 said:


> Ok folks I finally finished my Five Bar monograph. I would like to thank all those that originally contributed to this thread as I incorporated most of the info into the paper. I noticed that I missed an acknowledgement in the paper and that is for the pics of the Wingbar butterfly stand provided by Chris (scrubbinrims). I also need to thank my girlfriend Heidi for helping me with a proofread and edit. Lastly I would like to thank Scott M. (CABE owner) and Dave Stromberger (site admin) for posting the article. The article is located on the home page  http://thecabe.com/monark-five-bar/  I hope this leads to others sharing their knowledge on other models of interest. V/r Shawn




Looks like you have set the bar with the information on the Monark 5 bars with a very thorough article on the model. Very informative & a great resource to the hobby & future generations. I will have to look into getting mine up & running this season. Now we need something like this for every model bicycle we ride  Thanks for all the hard work.

Below is a pic I had from what appears to be an all original bike from what looks to be Copake Auction from many years ago. If you don't have this bike in your files, I can forward you a bunch of pics I have of it. 

Ride Vintage - Frank


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## Freqman1 (Jan 10, 2014)

Thanks Frank. I agree I would like to see more information of this depth to help people who are either restoring a bike or considering the purchase to give folks an idea of what right looks like. There are a couple of good threads on here e.g. the Chief, Harley, and Super Streamline threads that would make good starting points for articles such as this. Regarding the bike you posted the owner posted this bike in the original Five Bar thread. If I were going to expand this mongraph to a book I would include pictures of all the original bikes I could find. For the boys Five Bars this is tough because originals are few and far between. V/r Shawn


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## fordmike65 (Jan 10, 2014)

Awesome article Shawn! Thanks so much for compiling all the known info on these bikes into one spot. An OG paint Super Frame is definitely on my list.


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## tanno (Jan 10, 2014)

*http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?31452-Monark-Five-Bar-Four-Bar-Superframe*

What are the correct rims used on '39 5 bars?  Triples ???
Thanks!
Tanno


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## fordmike65 (Jan 10, 2014)

tanno said:


> What are the correct rims used on '39 5 bars?  Triples ???
> Thanks!
> Tanno




The answer you seek lies here...

http://thecabe.com/monark-five-bar/


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## tanno (Jan 12, 2014)

*http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?31452-Monark-Five-Bar-Four-Bar-Superframe*

Thank you very much, great help!
Tanno


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## Neanderthal77 (May 11, 2014)

*Monark 4 bar*

Found this post when trying to find information about this bike.  Had to have it when I saw it.  Looking for any info on how old it is.  Serial # is c93128 and is located on the left dropout.  I have included pictures if you need one of something specific let me know.  Thank you.


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## Freqman1 (May 11, 2014)

The bike is a 1941. Appears largely complete/correct except for the headlight and paint. This model could have possibly had a tank and rack as well. Here is the link to the monograph I wrote on these. I need to make a couple minor revisions mostly regarding the Comet model and the '41 bikes. V/r Shawn

http://thecabe.com/monark-five-bar/


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## Neanderthal77 (May 12, 2014)

*Monark 4 bar*

Thank you so much for the information.  Definitely looking for the rack and tank for it.


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## Freqman1 (May 12, 2014)

Neanderthal77 said:


> Thank you so much for the information.  Definitely looking for the rack and tank for it.




Like I said it was _possible_ that this had a rack and tank. I had a girls bike similar to this with no tank or rack. I have noticed that '41s didn't always have a headlight either. My boys '41 has no holes in the fenders and there is a girls, ACE, badged bike on Ebay right now that doesn't have (never had) a headlight on it. This may have beeen the case with your bike and someone may have added the headlight to it because it is not correct for this model. V/r Shawn


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## 48b6 (Sep 23, 2014)

I'm currently restoring what I believe to be a late 39 5 bar ser# A48148. Pencil tip springer, delta torpedo front loader, semi-tubular fender braces and the butterfly park stand. Should be out on the streets in a few months!


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## Freqman1 (Sep 23, 2014)

48b6 said:


> I'm currently restoring what I believe to be a late 39 5 bar ser# A48148. Pencil tip springer, delta torpedo front loader, semi-tubular fender braces and the butterfly park stand. Should be out on the streets in a few months!




I've got like four or five of these at various stages of restoration. How about some in-progress photos? What color scheme are you going with? V/r Shawn


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## 48b6 (Sep 23, 2014)

Freqman1 said:


> I've got like four or five of these at various stages of restoration. How about some in-progress photos? What color scheme are you going with? V/r Shawn




I'm going with black and ivory, I'll try to get some pics up this weekend.


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## Freqman1 (Sep 23, 2014)

48b6 said:


> I'm going with black and ivory, I'll try to get some pics up this weekend.




Cool I have an original paint bike in those colors. V/r Shawn


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## 48b6 (Sep 28, 2014)

Freqman1 said:


> Cool I have an original paint bike in those colors. V/r Shawn
> 
> View attachment 170275





Yeah, I've seen pics of your bike before. That actually helped me decide on mine, it was originally blue with ivory but I don't really care for the blue. I prefer the later style rack so I went with that. Here's mine in it's current state, not much to look at but you get the idea. Great article by the way!!


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## Freqman1 (Sep 28, 2014)

Looks like progress to me! I don't know if it really matters to you but the factory painted the black first with the white over it. This kinda flys in the face of what we've all been taught that do painting but that's how they did it. Can't wait to see another Super Frame on the road again. V/r Shawn


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## 48b6 (Sep 28, 2014)

Freqman1 said:


> Looks like progress to me! I don't know if it really matters to you but the factory painted the black first with the white over it. This kinda flys in the face of what we've all been taught that do painting but that's how they did it. Can't wait to see another Super Frame on the road again. V/r Shawn




Yeah I'm aware of how they did it back then, but for me it's easier this way to just make stencils and then shoot the black, I still need to roll a few dings out of the fenders so I haven't sprayed any color on them yet. I was just anxious to get some ivory on the frame and fork for motivation, plus I still need to tinker with the horn a bit before I install it and spray the other tank half.


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## Crazy8 (Oct 1, 2014)

*On CL*

One posted on CL..
http://appleton.craigslist.org/bik/4692040907.html


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## fordmike65 (Oct 1, 2014)

Crazy8 said:


> One posted on CL..
> http://appleton.craigslist.org/bik/4692040907.html




Cool bike! Pretty much the same bike, tho it has a curved second bar and never had a tank. Technically a Hawthorne Twin Bar. Like this:


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## catfish (Oct 1, 2014)

Freqman1 said:


> Cool I have an original paint bike in those colors. V/r Shawn
> 
> View attachment 170275




That's a cool bike!


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## Monark52 (Nov 11, 2014)

*Fender wanted*

I need a peaked front fender for a 1940 Monark Airman. Doesn't have to be perfect, just no holes. Let me know what you have! Thanks.


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## Aerocycle36 (Jan 11, 2015)

ebay purchase from a pawn shop


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## Monark52 (Jan 11, 2015)

Nice original survivor. Good score.


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## Aerocycle36 (Jan 11, 2015)

I'm thinking about selling it but I don't have a clue what it's worth...


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## 48b6 (Jan 15, 2015)

Very nice! I've seen one similar on ebay for the last few months, I don't think anyone has touched it.




Aerocycle36 said:


> I'm thinking about selling it but I don't have a clue what it's worth...


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## bikecrazy (Jan 15, 2015)

*Hawthorne 5 bar "Super frame"*

Here are some pics of my Hawthorne 5 bar. My down tubes attach to the bottom bracket in a conventional way. Most I see have the bottom bracket sitting on frame loops. I picked this up at a Flea maret a few years ago for $125. It came with vintage ape hangers and the paint was a mess. There was enough there for me to duplicate the color and "spikes". The seat is origional.


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## Freqman1 (Jan 15, 2015)

Nice bike but not what this thread is about (Monark built only). Look at page 1 post #4 for information about this Snyder built bike. V/r Shawn


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## kingfish254 (Jan 15, 2015)

Here is the right thread for the Hawthorne Twin Bar bikes.  
http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?54711-Monark-Built-TANKLESS-5bar-thread(Hawthorne-Twin)


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## fordmike65 (Jan 15, 2015)

kingfish254 said:


> Here is the right thread for the Hawthorne Twin Bar bikes.
> http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?54711-Monark-Built-TANKLESS-5bar-thread(Hawthorne-Twin)




Thanks! Was just about to post a link to that thread. Thugh it is mostly about Monark built bikes, feel free to post your Snyder built bike. Looks great!


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## rustjunkie (Jan 20, 2015)

Freqman1 said:


> Nice bike but not what this thread is about (Monark built only). Look at page 1 post #4 for information about this Snyder built bike. V/r Shawn




This one doesn't look Snyder to me, compared to the ones I have here at least. The bottom bracket shells on mine have the typical Snyder flanges for the tubes, and the down tubes are straight not curved.


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## Nickinator (Jan 20, 2015)

the superframe version is specifically built for monark and is the frame style that takes the tank.


Nick.


rustjunkie said:


> This one doesn't look Snyder to me, compared to the ones I have here at least. The bottom bracket shells on mine have the typical Snyder flanges for the tubes, and the down tubes are straight not curved.


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## rustjunkie (Jan 20, 2015)

Nickinator said:


> the superframe version is specifically built for monark and is the frame style that takes the tank.
> 
> 
> Nick.





Yes, I understand and understood that.


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## rustjunkie (Jan 20, 2015)

rustjunkie said:


> Yes, I understand and understood that.




***edit***

I replied too quickly. I understand that this is a Monark thread, but actually no, not all Super frames took a tank:










What am I missing here?


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## fordmike65 (Jan 20, 2015)

Awesome find Scott!!!


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## rustjunkie (Jan 20, 2015)

fordmike65 said:


> Awesome find Scott!!!



Not much of a find really: there's more of them in the catalog, just trying to figure out why the "curved-bar" frames aren't recognized as super "five bar" 
It's okay: we all know tankless bikes rule


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## fordmike65 (Jan 20, 2015)

Well, I haven't been able to find my Monark book for some time now, so this is "news" to me. Very cool...


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## fordmike65 (Jan 20, 2015)

rustjunkie said:


>




Notice there is not much (if any)seat tube above the top tubes?? I don't believe the other tankless 5Bars posted here and other related threads have been molested in any way as previously commented.


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## rustjunkie (Jan 20, 2015)

fordmike65 said:


> Well, I haven't been able to find my Monark book for some time now...




http://thecabe.com/the-store/#!/Books/c/3240462/offset=9&sort=nameAsc


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## fordmike65 (Jan 20, 2015)

rustjunkie said:


> http://thecabe.com/the-store/#!/Books/c/3240462/offset=9&sort=nameAsc




Yeah, I know. Been hoping it'll pop up but seems it's been absorbed. With my luck I'll find it as soon as I buy another.


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## Freqman1 (Apr 21, 2017)

I know this is an old thread but recently Spedman posted a set of dual position bars on his Five Bar. I've asked whether these are the real deal but haven't received a response. These bars are featured prominently in early Monark advertising but are seldom seen today. My hypothesis on these is that they may have been difficult to produce and were only on offered for a very short time in 1939. I have only seen a few sets of these and I own a pair of originals that I got a few years back. Just curious if any other members have a genuine set of these. Are they being reproduced? Below are pics
 of mine and the pair on Spedman's bike. Is it just me or do these look different? V/r Shawn


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## WetDogGraphix (Apr 21, 2017)

Freqman1 said:


> I know this is an old thread but recently Spedman posted a set of dual position bars on his Five Bar. I've asked whether these are the real deal but haven't received a response. These bars are featured prominently in early Monark advertising but are seldom seen today. My hypothesis on these is that they may have been difficult to produce and were only on offered for a very short time in 1939. I have only seen a few sets of these and I own a pair of originals that I got a few years back. Just curious if any other members have a genuine set of these. Are they being reproduced? Below are pics
> of mine and the pair on Spedman's bike. Is it just me or do these look different? V/r Shawn
> 
> View attachment 454648 View attachment 454649 View attachment 454650 View attachment 454651
> View attachment 454653



They look different. Which one is original?


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## fordmike65 (Apr 21, 2017)

WetDogGraphix said:


> They look different. Which one is original?



I'd say Shawn's. Shallow bars like the one's on Frank's '39


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## Freqman1 (Apr 22, 2017)

My bars are original. I thought the bars on this bike looked deep which is why I asked. V/r Shawn


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## stezell (Apr 25, 2017)

Just finished my 39 Monark 5 bar with Colson aluminum fenders and OG paint. Before and after pics.


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## Vintage Paintworx (Apr 26, 2017)

Freqman1 said:


> I know this is an old thread but recently Spedman posted a set of dual position bars on his Five Bar. I've asked whether these are the real deal but haven't received a response. These bars are featured prominently in early Monark advertising but are seldom seen today. My hypothesis on these is that they may have been difficult to produce and were only on offered for a very short time in 1939. I have only seen a few sets of these and I own a pair of originals that I got a few years back. Just curious if any other members have a genuine set of these. Are they being reproduced? Below are pics
> of mine and the pair on Spedman's bike. Is it just me or do these look different? V/r Shawn
> 
> View attachment 454648 View attachment 454649 View attachment 454650 View attachment 454651
> View attachment 454653




 The second pair looks like something that was fabbed up, much longer, taller and wider. I have my set at a local fabricator right now being copied and should have a few sets done in the next few days. It was a challenge finding someone willing to give them a shot.


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## Freqman1 (Apr 26, 2017)

Vintage Paintworx said:


> The second pair looks like something that was fabbed up, much longer, taller and wider. I have my set at a local fabricator right now being copied and should have a few sets done in the next few days. It was a challenge finding someone willing to give them a shot.




Would love to see pics of the finished product. Will they have the correct knurling in both positions? V/r Shawn


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## Vintage Paintworx (Apr 26, 2017)

Freqman1 said:


> Would love to see pics of the finished product. Will they have the correct knurling in both positions? V/r Shawn



Yes, I should have them in my hands within a few days.


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## Oldbikes (Apr 26, 2017)

It's been a number of years now, but I had a set of original bars, wish I had never gotten rid of 'em!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rollfaster (Apr 27, 2017)

rustjunkie said:


> Not much of a find really: there's more of them in the catalog, just trying to figure out why the "curved-bar" frames aren't recognized as super "five bar"
> It's okay: we all know tankless bikes rule



Yes they do!


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## WetDogGraphix (Apr 27, 2017)

Vintage Paintworx said:


> The second pair looks like something that was fabbed up, much longer, taller and wider. I have my set at a local fabricator right now being copied and should have a few sets done in the next few days. It was a challenge finding someone willing to give them a shot.




@Vintage Paintworx


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## Mark Mattei (Apr 27, 2017)

Monark built Hawthorne 5 bar frame with pencil springer. Serial 14411.


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## fordmike65 (Apr 27, 2017)

Mark Mattei said:


> View attachment 457410 View attachment 457411 View attachment 457412 View attachment 457413 Monark built Hawthorne 5 bar frame with pencil springer. Serial 14411.



Looks like a tankless Hawthorne Twin Bar. Does the springer look original to that frame, or added at some point?
http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/monark-built-tankless-5bar-thread-hawthorne-twin.54711/


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## Mark Mattei (Apr 27, 2017)

fordmike65 said:


> Looks like a tankless Hawthorne Twin Bar. Does the springer look original to that frame, or added at some point?
> http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/monark-built-tankless-5bar-thread-hawthorne-twin.54711/



Good call, the fork looks added on. I believe the Monark badged version of this frame could have come with the pencil springer, anyone have that badge?


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## fordmike65 (Apr 27, 2017)

Mark Mattei said:


> Good call, the fork looks added on. I believe the Monark badged version of this frame could have come with the pencil springer, anyone have that badge?



According to the catalog, the tankless parallel version was indeed offered with a springer fork, though I've never seen one, in original paint anyway.


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## Kickstand3 (Aug 25, 2019)

Work in progress!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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