# Ideale 90 damaged--is there a solution?



## LouB (Jul 29, 2017)

Saddle question?  Is there a way to repair this without damaging the Rebour etched leather top.  Top is perfect! Hate to lose it.


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## GTs58 (Jul 29, 2017)

Interesting. I've never noticed how those were attached originally. Compression fit like a rivet, brazed or what. The bubba way would be to clean it up real good with a Dremel and JB it making sure it fits all the way in the hole without applying any force. If it's bent then it will have to be bent back to where it sets in the hole all the way without using force to push it down or holding it to the original seating position.


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## LouB (Jul 29, 2017)

yup, thats my "last resort" fix.  Never used JB, but makes sense.


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## bulldog1935 (Jul 30, 2017)

I've used a lot of JBWeld, even drilled and tapped it, but that's one application I wouldn't trust it.  
A certain other brand of saddle had a tendency to bend the rails, and one bent on me - too much at stake.


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## Eric Amlie (Jul 30, 2017)

I'd try putting a number of small tack welds around it with a with wire feed welder.
Very short bursts won't make much heat.


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## rhenning (Jul 30, 2017)

Can you show a picture of the side that is still good.  If it was riveted you should be able to fix it with a 3/16 pop rivet.  I looked at the Ideal 90 I have and the frame is completly different than yours.  Roger


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## SirMike1983 (Jul 30, 2017)

Eric Amlie said:


> I'd try putting a number of small tack welds around it with a with wire feed welder.
> Very short bursts won't make much heat.




Yeah, my thought would be the same. Leather actually tends to be fairly heat resistant, at least good, heavy leather will be. It can dry out and crack with enough heat, but there are lots of applications where leather is used as a heat shield because it resists heat well (e.g., a blacksmith's apron or welder's gloves). 

I don't think JB will work here either - would look into a tack weld.


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## LouB (Jul 30, 2017)

Here is the top side and the Ideale rivets.


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## bulldog1935 (Jul 31, 2017)

Not directly related to Lou's question, but we talked about it on Saturday's ride - here is the reintroduction of Ideale saddles by Victoire cycles in France
Supposed to be available in September.
http://www.victoire-cycles.com/en/news/come-back-idéale-saddles.html
250€
handmade and likely under closer supervision than an equivalent Asian import. 

and for those who were asking on Lou's saddle, can't see the failed joint on the top of the frame - it's between the leather rivets.


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## rhenning (Jul 31, 2017)

I wanted the bottom side to see how it looks when unbroken.  Roger


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## LouB (Jul 31, 2017)

gottcha


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## rhenning (Jul 31, 2017)

The 90 I have is built different than that one.  The frame looks like what Brooks used.  Roger


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## WVBicycles (Aug 1, 2017)

I don't think JB weld would last in the long run I agree a few very small tack welds would fix it


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## GTs58 (Aug 1, 2017)

Since all the force is downward I see no reason why JB would not be sufficient. Doesn't look like it was welded originally, just a compressing fit between the rod and washer. You can see grooves where that washer was compressed and dug into frame rod.


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## mongeese (Aug 2, 2017)

What about welding some bracer rods in areas as to not conflict with the seat guts?


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## bulldog1935 (Aug 2, 2017)

GTs58 said:


> Since all the force is downward I see no reason why JB would not be sufficient. Doesn't look like it was welded originally, just a compressing fit between the rod and washer. You can see grooves where that washer was compressed and dug into frame rod.



it actually isn't, bro.
It broke in bending load from the combination of weight dynamics and shear loading from the clamp force on the rails.  There is a tension side to the failure.


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## LouB (Aug 2, 2017)

Ha, just got worse.  I was going to drill out the broken part of the support.  Tapped it with an awl and the washer--that I thought was welded to the frame --popped off.  I can now see that the support is milled to a smaller diameter (the piece is still there--now under the frame) and then inserted through the washer and into a hole in the frame.   Yes, some welding is in order!


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## bulldog1935 (Aug 3, 2017)

now with that washer gone, you could set up a decent fillet weld.
I have a buddy who's a welding engineer, works out of his house, and could knock it out - he always feels indebted to me because I give him access to lab equipment

He made a couple of similar welds on a VO front rack for me once



had to change the angle on the canti-bosses to get the fork crown stud inserted.


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## sam (Aug 3, 2017)

If your going to tack weld it , wet the leather first


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## LouB (Aug 3, 2017)

Yes. Makes sense.  Really don't want to have to remove the top and mess up those beautiful rivets.  Thanks to Ron I believe we have a skilled welder.   Let you know how it turns out.


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## 100bikes (Aug 5, 2017)

Did you contact Brooks of England?

They may be interested in fixing it, removing the rivets and replacing the undercarriage.

Might be worth a try.


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## vincev (Aug 5, 2017)

I would tack weld it.


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