# How would you 'restore' it?



## TexasDart (Jan 30, 2013)

I got this bike from my Dad about 20 years ago.   It was painted Ford blue, by the 'restorer' in Missouri.  I did a little sanding and I can see some John Deer green under that.   I'm thinking of progressing towards a Black Phantom type of restoration.   I've done cars and homes but not really messed with bikes in a long time.   I'm thinking of doing the paint, straighten out the fenders for now, go thru the mechanicals, new tires.   Then start buying parts as the budget allows.
I did decode the serial number and it was built 8/03/59.   But looks to have a 1940 chain guard.   

Any insight or comments are appreciated.


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## PeterScherer (Jan 30, 2013)

Chain guard is not a Phantom item, it appears to be off a Spitfire or such. As for building it into a Phantom replica, I'm going to estimate that you will spend in the neighborhood of $600-$1000 restoring it with NOS or new Phantom parts. When finished, it wouldn't be worth as much as a real Phantom since it's not an original Phantom. Best thing you could do is restore it back to original as a 1959 Spitfire and drive the wheels off of it! 

I recently refurbished a 1950 Black Phantom and I can testify that they are VERY expensive to assemble. Being this bike is from your dad, I'd suggest building the kind of bike that he would've liked.  

Whatever you do, have fun with it! Looks like a sweet project! 
Cheers,
~Peter


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## Freqman1 (Jan 30, 2013)

To 'restore' this might be a little difficult since you don't know what model it was originally. As Peter said going the Phantom route can become expensive because about all you would use would be the frame and fork--everything else isn't correct for a Phantom. Restoring this to a Phantom would cost at least $1200-1500 if you did paint yourself and you would a have a $1000 bike in the end. You might try to use a product like Goof Off or some acetone to slowly remove the blue to reveal the factory color/scheme which would clue you in on the model. I think the bike has more sentimental value than anything so I wouldn't worry too much about originality personally. Make it nice, make it yours, and enjoy it. V/r Shawn


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## Dan the bike man (Jan 30, 2013)

It looks like you can just get on it and ride it. Other than painting it a different color (if you don't like the blue) I'd just leave it and RIDE it. If you want a Phantom, buy one as close to original as you can.


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## rollfaster (Jan 30, 2013)

*how would you*

it looks to me like a hornet/spitfire,1957-58.just paint or not as you wish,recondition and ride.people love to see old bikes of any kind being ridden around.always a conversation piece.


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## TexasDart (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestions.   I didn't want to do anything to really hurt the value of a 'real' Phantom..since I didn't know what I had.   Doing a search on Phantom the chain guard looked like a 40 phantom chain guard.   So does the serial number give you a clue besides when it was manufactured as to what it was 'borned' as?   I already did a little sanding on the fenders and there is no chrome there.

Thought maybe someone had thrown a '40 model chain guard on there.


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## Rear Facing Drop Out (Jan 30, 2013)

*restore issue*

It is a middle weight bike with 1.75 tires and S7 rims. Phantoms are a heavy weight with wider fenders and fatter tires. Two different frames. The fact it never had a built in kickstand (unless it was torn off) points to a spitfire I think. They were a more basic bike with bolt on stand and non forged neck and a few other basic features. Try to look up a 59 schwinn catalog and see what they offered.


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## SirMike1983 (Jan 30, 2013)

I'd strip it down until I got to the original paint, if there is any left. Depending on the condition then either I'd clean up the original paint and ride it, or repaint in the original pattern. Often people just paint over layer after layer, so you may find you can actually determine what the original scheme was.


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## PeterScherer (Jan 30, 2013)

TexasDart said:


> Thanks for the suggestions.   I didn't want to do anything to really hurt the value of a 'real' Phantom..since I didn't know what I had.   Doing a search on Phantom the chain guard looked like a 40 phantom chain guard.   So does the serial number give you a clue besides when it was manufactured as to what it was 'borned' as?   I already did a little sanding on the fenders and there is no chrome there.
> 
> Thought maybe someone had thrown a '40 model chain guard on there.




Well, the Schwinn Phantom wasn't introduced until 1949, and even then, all Phantoms were 26X2.125 or Heavy-Weight Schwinns. Your Spitfire/Hornet is the Middle-Weight. So some Phantom parts (rims, etc...) wont fit on it. As for what your chain-guard is: Well, I just finished a 1952 Schwinn DX (Base-model) and it had that same guard. From my research, that chain-guard was the standard model for many years. Just to show you what an original Phantom-Style chain-guard is, here's mine on my 1950 Black Phantom.




Hope that helps some more!
~Peter


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## bricycle (Jan 30, 2013)

Sounds to me he just wants to give the "Illusion" of a Black Phantom.
he could:
Buy a....
Inexpensive set of chrome fenders
a $80-$110 chromed tank
tan saddle $15-20
Phantom guard $40-45
two quality decals and a Black Phantom decal set $30 ish
black Schwinn grips $10-15
repop rack $45-$55
rack light $50
repo white walls $35
so the bottom line is what......$335 or so. (plus paint)


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## TexasDart (Jan 30, 2013)

I look up hornet and spitfire....I think the phantoms are coool.   But I don't mind the painted fender look either.   Thanks for helping me out on what I have.


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## schwinnderella (Jan 30, 2013)

Clean it, grease it, wax it, change the seat, and ride it!


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## TexasDart (Jan 30, 2013)

I like the seat...it's nice and cushiony...


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## greenephantom (Jan 31, 2013)

If the fork is original, then it could have been a Deluxe Hornet.  But then the D. Hornet for 1959 used a different style of guard.  No telling how this was originally equipped unless there's original paint under the blue that would help you nail down a model.
At least you've got some decent pieces to work with.
Cheers, Geoff


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## TexasDart (Jan 31, 2013)

I did a little sanding on the fender and got down to green paint...after that it looked like red..but this could of been primer.


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## TexasDart (Feb 9, 2013)

Under the blue paint on the chainguard you can faintly see "Schwinn Deluxe Hornet".   Coool.   The wheel rims apear to be 'chrome'.  The spokes look grey...under the white.   The tires that are on it are 2.125x26.  I think someone supersized it.   I believe the correct size is 1 3/4x26.   I thought the back fender looked to big.  It's not for this bike and it's beat pretty bad, somebody hacked to fit between the frame.   I'll have to look for some good fenders for it.  There goes the budget build.    The frame needs a little welding.   Not too bad so far.
I'll probably soda blast it tomorrow and prime it.  

Oh the handle grips are Western Flyers.   They will have to be replaced...not the right color.   Any tricks to getting these off without ripping them.  They are in decent shape.   Somebody may need them.

Now how to take the pedel section out...

And how to rebuild the rear end.

Back to the garage.


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## TexasDart (Feb 10, 2013)

Alright the turkey has been plucked.   Removed the forks, pedal crank...it's ready to get blasted.....i'm going to sleep.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Feb 10, 2013)

*stripper!*

I had 55 Spitz painted all shades of 60s house  colors, I carefully took each layer of paint off with strip ez. As soon as the layer started to bubble id wipe away with a old towel. That old Schwinn paint is hard to remove after being baked in the sun for fifty years. Everybody gots a phantom, big woop... do a jaguar!! Or leave it a spitfire hornet! A mid weight Schwinn frame can be made into any mid weight model! Just remember, ounce you change what it was originally, you will have to inform the person buying it if you decide to ever sell it. Hell leave it blue, tape off some fender darts and call it a day! In other words ride the piss out of it my man!!!


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## MR D (Feb 10, 2013)

Trick to removing handle grips...

Shove a thin screwdriver under the grip and squirt a small amount of DW 40 in there. Wiggle the screwdriver around a bit then remove it, then start twisting the grip and it should slide right off. Dish soapy water works too.


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Feb 10, 2013)

*that works*

If they are crap, utility knife the bastards!


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Feb 10, 2013)

*fat tires*

If it has s2s on it, id leave em.. I think they look better and ride better then s7s.. But that's just my opinion and it's two less parts you will have to purchase!


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## Rivnut (Feb 10, 2013)

I'm going with a '58 Deluxe Hornet minus the tank and the rear carrier.

Your pictures and comments show/state:
Cantilever frame,
Springer fork,
Feather chain guard
Chrome wheels
"Deluxe Hornet" on chainguard
Detachable kickstand

Compare that with the picture and description in this link:

http://www.trfindley.com/flschwinn_1951_1960/1958_hornetdlx.html

At the bottom of the page are the colors available for that year.


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## Strings-n-Spokes (Feb 10, 2013)

I always use compressed air to remove handgrips, same with 5 gallon buckets that are stuck together


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## TexasDart (Feb 11, 2013)

Thanks for the info on the grips.  They are actually nice Western Flyer ones so I do want to save them.

Did some soda blasting this weekend.  Darn Sand was to wet to do any sandblasting.

Here are the wheels...the front and back do not match.

Front wheel cleaned up nicely.  Chrome rim but the spokes came out grey...almost galvanized looking what the heck are they made out of?

The Rear wheel didn't clean up so well it has some rust.   But the rim is more rounded on the edge where it goes from the spokes to the edge than the front rim.

So what rims do I have...S7...S2...the rear has Bendix on it?  The front I believe says Wald...as do the pedals.

Thanks for all the help.


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## cyberpaull (Feb 11, 2013)

*What are you thinking!*

Texasdart,  With all due respect, The world does not need another clone Phantom. What you have is a middle weight Hornet Not a Heavyweight. I hope you decide to restore it to its original condition and model. There are plenty of TRUE Phantoms out there to restore. When all is said and done the bike is yours and you can do whatever you wish. Just my two cents.  Paul


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## TexasDart (Feb 12, 2013)

I didn't know what I had initially now that I've seen the light it will be going the Hornet way.

The front rim only says 'MO MFG' on it on the side.   The back rim has no markings on it.  So what tires do I run on this cruiser?

I could not find S7 or S2 on the rims.


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## cyclebuster (Feb 12, 2013)

Murray Outdoor Manufacturing. A murray guy would love those.  but as for restoring, well the last guy probably snagged the S7s and tossed on the murrays. Do whatever you like. maybe a 7 speed nexxus hub with alloy rims, so you dont have to buy expensive s7 tires. Go buy a new wamart schwinn cruiser, and snag all the shiny stuff off it, and ride it while you hunt!
I say its an assembled vehicle, i think the frame is much newer then the rest of the stuff.


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## TexasDart (Feb 12, 2013)

Couldn't you just put 1.75 tires on these?  or are these considered expensive too.   Just trying to figure out what tires to buy.

Going home to Missouri in March may look around in the sheds to see what I can find.


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## TexasDart (Feb 14, 2013)

This has a Bendix rear-end...how do I tell if it's a single speed or a 2-speed kick back and what do I need to do to it as far as maintenance.   Disassemble it, clean it and grease it.   Trying to find some instructions.

Thanks.


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## fordmike65 (Feb 14, 2013)

Looks like a regular single speed. The 2spd kickbacks will be larger in diameter & have 3 grooves,usually painted red or yellow.


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## fordmike65 (Feb 14, 2013)

Here's a link to help with Bendix rear hub maintenance:

http://ratrodbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53878

Link to kickback pics & maint for referance:

http://ratrodbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21780


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## TexasDart (Feb 14, 2013)

thanks again...looks pretty straight forward.   I did find Elmira NY 36-13 on the Bendix hub.


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## stratelecaster (Feb 16, 2013)

I have a tendency to take certain liberties when "restoring" since restoration parts are so cost prohibitive if they can even be found.

 So, as a consequence, all my bikes are riders and they do get ridden hard every riding season.
 I hope this doesn't upset any of the purists.
My bikes are fun builds and fun rides.


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## TexasDart (Feb 18, 2013)

This one is gong to be a fun build too.   My favorite colors just so happen to be Red,Black and Chrome...so it looks like that's the colors it's going to be.   

Here it is all blasted and then primered.   Making progress, now I need to go thru all my bearings and such to see what all I need and clean up the 'bright work'.  But first I'm going to visit my Brother at the RV resort in Mission TX and go ride some bikes.


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## TexasDart (Jul 23, 2013)

Finally made some progress....Should have it riding in about a week.   Ordered new tires, decals and grips.  I'm ready to ride.


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## TexasDart (Jul 24, 2013)

Some assembly last night....may need a different seat...may need different fenders not sure yet.


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## Sped Man (Jul 24, 2013)

Nice paint job. It looks way better now. I also like what you did with those wheels. Nice!


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## TexasDart (Jul 24, 2013)

This is the bike those old tires came off of.


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## TexasDart (Jul 29, 2013)

Here it is...course they are never finished...


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