# F Moser Forma



## bulldog1935

got a good deal on this classic lugged steel frame and finished it a few weeks ago - enough to already pedal 100 miles.  
It doesn't count as vintage, but it counts as instant classic.  
Graphics on the frame and 1996 Olympics badge date it to the late 90s.  I call it the brewpub racer, because if my buddy and I can land at a brewpub in a ride, we will.
I have six decades of parts represented on it.  It's a Frankengruppe, but it all works together great.  



 


 


 


 


 
I was given a used cross tubular wheelset, so this gave me a lot of room, including good tires
While the wheels show wear, they're perfectly true and hubs are as smooth and efficient as new hubs.  
I build this bike for $650, and was very happy with the price and the result.  

1960s, almost don't count, are my straight-lever Grand Sport quick release skewers.  
From the 70s I used my rebuilt Shimano 600 EX RD, KKT pedals, NOS Dia Compe levers
80s are the Triomphe friction shifters, alloy Cinelli clips and yellow Ale straps
90s are the wheelset (American Classic/Sun), Mirage BB, Rudelli HS, and the frame itself
Naughties are NOS Chorus brakes, NOS Centaur crankset, and used Daytona FD
Teens are the remaining new parts, Cinelli 64 bar, Nitto long Pearl stem, Thomson Masterpiece seatpost, Yokozuna cables, SRAM hollow-pin chain, and Selle Anatomica (titanicoX) saddle.  

In the top photo, the freewheel is a 7-speed IRD 13-28, but I managed to get a Zenith 8-speed 13-24 from SJS in the UK and it shifts wonderfully on the DT friction shifters.  
It seems like the RD, Shimano 600 EX Arabesque, could still shift a 9th cog.  
On the 39T chainring, the gears are 5-inch steps from 43 inches to 80 inches.  It's a joy to ride.  
Love the Challenge tubulars, 27mm Parigi in rear and 25mm Strada in front - at 110 psi they're like riding soft butter, and out-roll everything around.  The AnAtomica is the most invisible saddle I've ever ridden, and the dual-pivot Chorus brakes are the best side-pulls I've ever squeezed.  
Also came in at 21 lbs, which is not bad with a 64cm steel frame

I had previously converted my '76 Raleigh into a randonneur with a Cyclotouriste triple (and NOS Cyclone GT RD), and had hoped to use the Nuovo Record crankset I removed from it on the Moser.  But Q was too low on the older crank, and it wouldn't clear the chainstays, so I needed either either a wider BB or a new crank, and I got a great unopposed ebay bid on the NOS Centaur.  
My daughter will use the Nuovo Record crank on a '86 Team Fuji she's building during summer break.


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## bulldog1935

you guys are a tough audience
here's a good photo from today's ride
we're on top of the divide between the Guadalupe and Pedernales rivers.  Closest town is Luchenbach.  
From his MIL's ranch on Muesebach creek, it was only a 10-mi one way, and a 700' climb over the last 5 miles.



it was fast going back


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## haschebrown

Wow man thats one sweet ride, And you must be fricken 6'5 or something! haha I love the collage of parts but without making it obvious. And personally looking at and buying classic road bikes gets my blood going more than just about any bike does. lol they're just so clean and sexy... plus very efficient and practical with pieces of over indulgence. lol great bike man.


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## Wcben

What a beauty!  Your ride reminds me of home.... Riding those hils was a great way to apperciate Mother Earth!!


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## bulldog1935

Thanks guys, actually I'm 6'3" but all limbs - 36" inseam.  
Here's the current form of the bike - I changed the RD and shifters to Campy Chorus (had to change the shift levers for the large travel needed by the Campy RD), really like the Modolo brake levers.  
I couldn't get the SA saddles to ever stop stretching, so I've gone to Rivet.  Picked up a nice wheelset, Moskva clinchers on C-Record hubs.  
I've ridden over 3000 mi on her and love it - I call her Francesca.


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## haschebrown

Very high end components! Still loving this thing man! Those modolo levers drilled?


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## bulldog1935

made me look - yes, they are partially drilled - these have the Moser hour record pantograph and when the guy in Hungary still had a bunch, I got them for a realistic price 


 
what I like about them, aside from the Very Cozy hoods, is that they have no wobble or free-play - they have such positive function, and I have about 1/16" travel to full brake - they're dialed in tight.


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## haschebrown

Sweet. .I wonder if that guy has any more? Lol


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## bulldog1935

no, the price kept creeping up (I paid $45) and some of the people who bought them up are trying to re-sell them at $135.


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## haschebrown

Wow! That's Crazy


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## indigoba

Really lovely looking bike!

I recently built up one of these, got a mix of components from the 90s mostly Ultegra and some nice Mavic Classics Wheels I found on ebay.

I have to say I love it. The Deda Zero steel is really comfortable and soaks up the bumps, i also handles very nicely.

Not the lightest i think it came in a shade under 10kg but I'll take that in exchange for comfort.

All in all really pleased with it. Stumbled on your post whilst trying to find a bit of information on the frame.

I'll post a picture when I get a chance


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## bulldog1935

Looking forward to seeing it - I love this bike.  I rode it two weeks ago, chasing my friends on their tandem for 30 mi , which is a chore, especially downhill.  (beat them by two blocks at the end).
The bike lunges up grades in high gears at a comfortable mash.  It really has that thing they call planing, where frame flex launches you forward.
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/11/23/what-is-planing/
(My Viner cross frame does it, too)

I had some seatpost squat issues, which I solved with a Super Record quill post (Moser Leader requires a quill seatpost, but the Forma is not supposed to).  Found a lucky and reasonable ebay buy.




Also recently replaced my floppy Ale toe straps, which kept turning around on me when I'd insert my foot, requiring me to slide my foot back and forth until they straightened out.
I bought the laminated Binda repros from Gran Bois and they are fantastic - foot goes in and out mindlessly now.
http://www.cyclesgrandbois.com/SHOP/binda_old.html
$62 delivered from japan, but should be the last I'll ever buy.



btw, anybody looking for Modolo 919 anatomic hoods for non-aero brakes, Yellow Jersey has a good supply of them

ps - indigoba, if you haven't found this, here is a 1994 Moser catalog in a flicker album
https://www.flickr.com/photos/mrjohan/sets/72157625543647538/with/5239017520/
Note the Forma has a steel stem - my frame came with the original ITM steel stem, but I needed taller and went with Nitto.
(also note the Leader, Gara and Carbon models have quill seatpost and the Forma doesn't, but the addition really improved mine)


 

Italian blog, Ray's history has a great abridged Moser library
http://www.raggidistoria.com/p/libreria.html
and his tee-shirt graphic is brilliant - I ordered one from across the pond.
http://raggidistoria.spreadshirt.it/

At least at the age of my bike, Mirage 8sp is the Campy gruppo they typically came with.  My frame came with a well-ridden Mirage sealed-bearing bottom bracket, which I pedaled out the seals in a few hundred miles and replaced with SKF (who makes bearings for Campy, anyway)
33pp pdf http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/d/118842-2/1998+Campagnolo+Catalog.pdf
though they didn't come with the bike, my Moskva rims were also offered that year (and they look great)

had some other odds-and-ends Moser listings, but most are past - one was a complete bike listed in the UK for $1500.
From those, and my graphics, I've been able to date my Forma as a '98, likely the last year they made lugged steel
(TiG-welded Leader continued in steel for a few more years)
http://www.retrodicorsa.cc/Retro_di_Corsa/archive/Pages/Moser_Forma_Yellow.html

Also, if you like my Rivet saddle, Carradice has begun importing them to the UK
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rivet-shoprivet/?geoc=us
from Debra in California
http://rivetcycleworks.com/
They have developed a following among folks who want to replace their Brooks with a better fit


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## bulldog1935

topper to show Ray's cool, deco, and very on topic tee shirt graphic


 
https://raggidistoria.spreadshirt.it/


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## Bikerider007

Super clean and great work!


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## bulldog1935

thank you, friend


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## bulldog1935

My black Ale toeclip broke on my last ride - damn Italians. 




so I found the green anodized OS from Italy on ebay for 1/3 price of black OS - if I had the inkling, I'd replace the yellow Binda straps with white, but they're Binda and are here to stay. 
Lights up the tire stripes, and I stashed a half-dozen of these tires on closeout.


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## bulldog1935

Decided to add to my old thread. 
The frame, btw, which I paid $175 on ebay, is actually a DeRosa Primato with Moser graphics - quite a steal at my price.  The DeRosa-marked frame would sell for a lot more than I have total in the bike. 
Since my photo above, finally gave up on the Rivet saddle, and have been totally happy on a Brooks Swallow. 
More changes I've made along the way, swapping the Shimano 600 RD I first used from my parts bin for the 2nd-generation Campy Chorus - Campy's SunTour copy, and with miles, IMO, the best RD ever made by anybody. 


 


Every Campy RD since Croce d'Aune requires a long-cable-pull shifter, and I solved that with the first Record/Chorus friction DT shifters - you can see the rear shifter has a larger sheave diameter to get the longer cable pull. 

When I first found my used Record/Moskva clincher wheelset on ebay from Germany, I tried loose ceramic balls in the front hub, and at the same time let a bike shop rebuild the rear freehub, since they had the tool.  The logic of ceramic balls (Si-N Gr5) is less the fact they're one-third the weight of steel, but are microscopically smoother than steel.  You can find the loose balls cheap enough from vendors on ebay and Amazon. 

What I've worked out about the wheelset, the hubs are the Record first "Ultra-drive" 8-sp from 1994-96. 



They show 3 different part numbers for the loose balls, I searched the part numbers and found wrong information on other bike forums - both the front hub bearing balls (RE008) and one side of the rear (RE004) are the same size 7/32" balls.
I've been rolling on them for over 5 years, and easily have 7000+ mi on them.  BTW, this is the fastest wheelset I've ever ridden on any bike, including older Campy and Zeus hubs, and newer sealed bearing hubs, AC and Phil. 

I was hearing a whir coming from the front hub, and decided it was time to look into it, expecting to find pieces of ceramic and wasted cups and cones. 
Instead, all I found was white lithium grease turned to wax - the whir was the ceramic balls bouncing together. 
Pristine race. 



equally good cones and balls - these haven't been solvent-cleaned yet, just wiped down with Boeshield



Instead of using white lithium grease again, this time went to the same grease I use in my antique fly reels - Quantum Hot Sauce - it never turns to wax, even exposed to water - Zebco salt-spray tested it for the equivalent of decades. 



You can do the best job final-adjusting front hub cones with the wheel in the fork
(though this shot is finished with dust caps back in place)



And since I can remove the freehub without disassembling it, I'm going to do a similar rebuild on the rear hub bearings sometime this winter.


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## sarmisluters

Great job on the ceramic ball bearings and thanks for sharing your story !


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## bulldog1935

thanks - and the last good photo I took of the bike, sporting her winter bar bag for peeling and stuffing layers as the day warms, taken on a last-March bluebonnet greenway foray.




also due for a new handlebar wrap, which I have some white leather bar wrap stashed away


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## HPL

bulldog1935 said:


> thanks - and the last good photo I took of the bike, sporting her winter bar bag for peeling and stuffing layers as the day warms, taken on a last-March bluebonnet greenway foray.




A very fine looking "Moser" indeed. You say that it's actually a De Rosa; were they building the lugged frames for Moser at that time? I love the fact that you have a quill post on that bike, what is the size? Many folks have modified the Leader seat tube to allow use of a collar clamp seat binder, but I think that takes a clean looking frame design and mucks it up a bit. Maybe your post will fit my Leader (HA!), I had a heck of a time finding a quill for it in the right size without breaking the bank. I'm glad you gave some feedback with your saddles through the years; it might not apply to my 140 lb body, but I had not really heard of (nor was I watching for) anything on the "Rivet" saddle. I've never ridden on one. Did it end up stretching too much like the Anatomica? It looks like a nice saddle, fairly similar to the "Swallow" except the center cut-out. I don't know your weight, but even I have noticed some these leather saddles with the cut out feel a little too "flexy". I've busted a fake "Swallow" ("cut down" Fujita "Belt" leather saddle) due to there not being enough material to maintain proper stiffness/support, especially on a used saddle. I now modify saddles to have those "tabs" extending from the sides and lacing them together to maintain stiffness and durability as well giving a means of adjustment due to stretching. I'll be breaking in a modified "Fake Brooks B.17" that has been cut like a "Swallow" model, but with the "tabs". Looks almost like the real thing; I could slap a "Brooks" badge on it and most folks wouldn't know. I got it as an extra on a bike purchase a few years back so I wasn't too concerned about messing it up. That bike came with a new real Brooks saddle anyways.
So good to see another "old" steel frame out there still going strong and looking good doing it!


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## bulldog1935

HPL said:


> A very fine looking "Moser" indeed. You say that it's actually a De Rosa; were they building the lugged frames for Moser at that time? I love the fact that you have a quill post on that bike, what is the size? Many folks have modified the Leader seat tube to allow use of a collar clamp seat binder, but I think that takes a clean looking frame design and mucks it up a bit. Maybe your post will fit my Leader (HA!), I had a heck of a time finding a quill for it in the right size without breaking the bank. I'm glad you gave some feedback with your saddles through the years; it might not apply to my 140 lb body, but I had not really heard of (nor was I watching for) anything on the "Rivet" saddle. I've never ridden on one. Did it end up stretching too much like the Anatomica? It looks like a nice saddle, fairly similar to the "Swallow" except the center cut-out. I don't know your weight, but even I have noticed some these leather saddles with the cut out feel a little too "flexy". I've busted a fake "Swallow" ("cut down" Fujita "Belt" leather saddle) due to there not being enough material to maintain proper stiffness/support, especially on a used saddle. I now modify saddles to have those "tabs" extending from the sides and lacing them together to maintain stiffness and durability as well giving a means of adjustment due to stretching. I'll be breaking in a modified "Fake Brooks B.17" that has been cut like a "Swallow" model, but with the "tabs". Looks almost like the real thing; I could slap a "Brooks" badge on it and most folks wouldn't know. I got it as an extra on a bike purchase a few years back so I wasn't too concerned about messing it up. That bike came with a new real Brooks saddle anyways.
> So good to see another "old" steel frame out there still going strong and looking good doing it!



a lot of questions without paragraph breaks, bro.
I love my Moser, and it's silky, quiet, fast above every other bike I've ever been around (including OPs much newer bikes).
Yes, just the last few years' Formas were marked-for-Moser Primatos.  TiG-welded Leaders were made at home.
The first few Moser lugged frames from c. '84 were also built by DeRosa.

I was forced to the quill stem - which isn't supposed to be required - by saddle/stem squat.  I had tightened the clamp to the point of fear.  Found a great ebay buy I could live with on a Super Record quill stem, and problem solved.

I didn't get more than a few months from an Anatomica - they stretched to the end of the stretch bolt.
The Rivet saddle - and Debra is a great person - developed a sharp crown behind the rear cut radius, which was kind of rude - I kept it trimmed with my best knife.
But when I put a Brooks Swallow Select on the bike, it was instant _*what was I thinking?*_  - for this riding position, the Swallow is the most invisible saddle I've ever ridden.

I think a lot of people have misapplied B17s to drop-bar road bikes, which created the whole break-in internet myth.  B17s belong on a semi-upright touring position.
('74 International)


In order to fit me, my '57 Lenton ended up with an even more aggressive riding position, and ditto on Swallow here.


I'll also add the Cinelli 44 Dream Bar on the Moser makes for a useful and comfortable drop - much more so than pista bars that were delivered on way too many Italians, and bike boom bikes in general.


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