# Well, after several years of succesful transactions on E-bay, they finally stoled from me.



## MarkKBike (May 10, 2019)

I knew it was going to happen eventually, It seems there is nothing I could do as a seller to enforce ebays own policy.

A while back I sold a item, and got a very positive review for it. About a week later I then had a return request that simply stated that buyer changed there mind. I thought no problem, go ahead and return it. (My policy is that the buyer pays return shipping).

Once the buyer found that they were responcible they closed the return request, and opened a snad case, and still admighted fault by saying "it did not have all the features they were looking for., and no longer wanted it". At this point I was not worried because I have read the return policy and thought I was safe.

Before a official ebay decision was made I called ebay, and made sure they documented that the buyer was orriginally happy with the purchase, and then later changed there mind. I told them I have no problem with a return, but do to there own policy I should not have to pay for the return.

Then about 4 hours later I got a message that said the case was closed in the buyers favor, and I had to send them a prepaid return label, or give a complete refund and let them also keep the item.

It would have been cheaper for me to just issue a complete refund and be done with it, but I did not want to support the buyers behavior, so I sent them a return lablel. Once I recieve the Item I'm going to end up paying shipping both ways, and will also have to refund the buyer the purchase price.

Note: Shipping two dirrections exceeds the purchase price of the item itself. Also the buyer did not keep my orriginal packaging, so the item is being sent back in a larger and heavier box, so I had to pay more to ship it back to me, than I did to ship it out. The first lable sent by ebay was not satifactory for the buyer do to this. On top of that I shipped it out using a ground service, and ebay required me to ship it back to myself using priority mail.

In the big picture it was not a super expensive item and its not the end of the world.  I will continue selling there, but it is frustrating that they make no attempt to enforce there own policy.  I only lost about 45$ in shipping costs.  I just hope the item comes back in the same condition so I could re-sell it.

What kind of upsets me is this buyer never once even contacted me durring this whole process, and did everything behind the scene.

As a seller I would never list a really high dollar item on ebay that would cost alot to ship "Like a Bike", because there is way to much risk involved if they are not able to enforce there own return policy. As a e-bay buyer I would have no problem purchasing a bike, and I have done so a few times in the past without any issues.


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## MarkKBike (May 12, 2019)

Note: e-Bay will still allow me the opportunity to offer a review of the case once the item is recieved back before offering a complete refund. But if it comes back in perfect shape, I'd rather just be done with the transaction than to waste any more time on it. Once completed I will block the buyer from any future transactions.

The snad case was a complete fraud, as the additional features this item did not have are not even present in this product, and were not mentioned in the listing. The item in question is not even offered with those features, so they were never even mentioned in the listing.

He has still not shipped it back, but has 10 days to do so from the date he recieved the lable. There is still a possibilty he may choose to keep it. If he does not ship it within the next 8 days I will not be out any money, as the return shipping lable will be refunded. (At least that is what I'm being told).


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## catfish (May 12, 2019)

eBay went down the tubes a long time ago.


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## 5760rj (May 12, 2019)

MarkKBike said:


> Note: e-Bay will still allow me the opportunity to offer a review of the case once the item is recieved back before offering a complete refund. But if it comes back in perfect shape, I'd rather just be done with the transaction than to waste any more time on it. Once completed I will block the buyer from any future transactions.
> 
> He has still not shipped it back, but has 10 days to do so. There is still a possibilty he may choose to keep it.



what a bunch of crap! it has happened to me plus when I did call ebay to discuss the problem I had difficulty in understanding the person on the other end because the call was transferred to another country each time I called.....


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## MarkKBike (May 12, 2019)

At least everyone at ebay I did speak to was easily understood.

The only problem I had was when trying to figure out how to issue a return lable though ebay. The first person I talked to told me it had to be done though USPS. I then called USPS for help, and waited another 50 minutes on hold for the next available agent only to be told that I need to do it though e-bay.

I then called e-bay back, and the 2nd person I talked to was extreamly knowledgeable and very helpfull, They asked for details, and walked me though the process, and they did most of the work required for me. (Who you get when you call is hit or miss, as some people you get connected to are more proficient at their jobs than others). I guess thats to be expected, as I'm sure its a entry level position.

I have spent over 20+ years in IT support in various positions, and understand the deal when trying to figure out problems. There is always going to be new hires on the other end of the line that do not have a clue in how to get things done, but think they have all the answers. They can sometimes sound extreamly confident on the phone for the simple fact that they do not yet have any idea of what procedures they do not yet know.

I'm probably more understanding than others, as in the past I have also been in that same position myself when dealing in new area's of support.


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (May 12, 2019)

MarkKBike said:


> What kind of upsets me is this buyer never once even contacted me during this whole process, and did everything behind the scene.



I had the same type of buyer 'bout a year ago.....................in another country .   He said  "The Color was not the same as his SCREEN on his computer  showed "  Then was a complete D-BAG to EVERYONE involved.      I Was Reimbursed  ALL of the funds.   He was BANNED from using Ebay.   Sorry to hear about your sale going bad.   It's more common than any of us hear.


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## MarkKBike (May 12, 2019)

CURTIS L LINDGREN said:


> I had the same type of buyer 'bout a year ago.....................in another country .   He said  "The Color was not the same as his SCREEN on his computer  showed "  Then was a complete D-BAG to EVERYONE involved.      I Was Reimbursed  ALL of the funds.   He was BANNED from using Ebay.   Sorry to hear about your sale going bad.   It's more common than any of us hear.





I once had a similar complaint, and responded back with. "Sorrry, I take actual photos of all Items sold", If your monitor does not show the same colors as my camera, would a 5$ refund on the cost satisfy you". They accepted, and that was the end of that.


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## Jeff54 (May 12, 2019)

Actually, it's pretty easy to rip off sellers when the costs generate a loss to a seller on ebay.

I've had so many stupid items that were not as advertised, falsely, or lackadaisical warehousing sellers send junk only to turn around , refund and forget-about-it, 'keep the junk' It P's, me .O.

1st, the time wasted, and needing to find the right item again delayed longer to get another, then refund and driving to PO to send it back. And keeping it? I didn't want it in the dam 1st place, taking up space in my trash can.

However, given the frequency of junk one can get stuck with, it's not too difficult to understand how easy it would be, and probably is, for freeloaders to order low buck junk and complain for the free ride.

In your case Mark, I don't get that, it sounds like, except: did ebay create a policy change, competitive with amazon, like, 'No returns refused'?    Otherwise, you are completely in the right to refuse.  You can't just change your mind when what you ordered is exactly what you got. Including, if too dumb to read the entire ad, that's not seller's error, it aint no brick and mortar return department.


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## bobcycles (May 12, 2019)

Please let us know who the bidder was so we can all block them?

EBay blows in ways that are almost unimaginable....I logged on a week or to list some items and noticed I was "restricted" from 
selling....as in NO selling for some ridiculous random window of time like 3 days.   Why ?  I ask.  They instruct me to read my
"messages"  ...in doing so I see that They are accusing me of using UNRELATED Titles in the Title Description of a standard
40's-50's brass Schwinn oval headbadge.   I added.....  "for Hornet, Panther, Phantom etc"....   Nothing misleading....in fact
better detailed information to help buyers.   They said misleading unrelated brands.  Idiots!

I lost it.  I called them and raised holy hell.  Could not even maintain...ended up using 'choice language' at high volume
I was so pissed.  And all the while speaking to the broken English foreign dupe on the other end in ?  Philippines?  or some
god awful 3rd world armpit.   
Took me over 1/2 an hour to get them to realize they screwed up BIG time.   F eBay......  I use the site reluctantly.... 
I wish there were better world wide market places ...


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## piercer_99 (May 12, 2019)

my big poke on ebay was about 15 years ago, I sold a Craftsman Riding mower, disclosed all that was and could be wrong with it.  I guy from Austin TX bought it, paid through paypal,  drove up to where I live and picked it up.  He was happy as heck with it when he left.   About a week later, he filed a claim through ebay, I was puzzled.   Anyway, I could not prove that he ever got the tractor, because I did not have any proof that it was shipped.  So, he got the tractor and he got his 800.00 back and I got poked.

Now, if there is a local pickup on an item, I still send a letter with tracking on it, and it is proof of delivery.  I have had 2 times since, that the proof of delivery through the post office, of a letter with a receipt, showed that the item was delivered and got to keep my money.    

Of course, years ago, I had bought some software from someone in New York city, and they sent me a letter, with tracking on it, and nothing else.   As they had proof of delivery, I couldn't do anything about it and was out the money.


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## MarkKBike (May 12, 2019)

I do somtimes sell larger tems on ebay for local pickup only, When the buyer picks them up locally, as I fidget with my phone I somehow always manage to snap a picture of the buyer, and also there license plate without there concent. In addition to this I also print up paper work we both sign.

I never had a problem with a local buyer.

But if it ever hapens, I try to prepare myself.


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## MarkKBike (May 12, 2019)

*bobcycles:*

*This buyer was not a purchaser of Bike related components, but if you are interested I can send you his name after the entire deal is compleated. I do not want to send names out just yet. as its still a ongoing process until the item is shipped back and returned.*

*It was a purchaser of vintage photography related equipment.*


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## jimsbeercans (May 13, 2019)

I sold a nice 67 Slik Chik in 2014 with a beautiful white seat. Worth by itself the cost of the whole bike. 10 days later they opened a case saying " not as describded" 
got it shipped back with a purple seat!! Ebay / PP sided with them and basically and I got screwed. Had pics of before the deal and after the deal. Still the buyer is always right.BULL CRAP. Still pisses me off to this day.

keep us updated and other people comments.


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## PCHiggin (May 13, 2019)

Well, I havent sold but a few things via ebay over the years,I've given away a few things to members here in lieu of a few bucks.The only problem I've had with ebay was as a buyer. I bought a set of supposedly "Schwinn Classic" Cruiser fenders for a 26" m/w Schwinn. They were advertised with the "Schwinn Classic" tag in the pic. They show up without it which was kinda suspicious. I unrap the rear,try to install it. No way! Believe me,no way in hell were these Schwinn parts,LOL!! They werent even close,they were generic junk being passed off as good stuff. Same with the braces. I did get a refund but it wasnt without a bit of rangling. I still see these things once in a while when searching for other fenders.


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## crazyhawk (May 13, 2019)

Lately, buyers have been coming up with tiny little flaws or create a flaw on the items I sell them and immediately start shaking me down for refunds.  It's an easy way to get my item for half price.  It never happened for 18 years. Now, it's about every other item.  And my stuff is the same quality as always.


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## razinhellcustomz (May 13, 2019)

Ebay is such a SCAM!!!!! i don't buy unless i know the seller from past transactions. BUYER BEWARE!!!!!!


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## 49autocycledeluxe (May 13, 2019)

5760rj said:


> what a bunch of crap! it has happened to me plus when I did call ebay to discuss the problem I had difficulty in understanding the person on the other end because the call was transferred to another country each time I called.....




funny stuff! ebay IS in a foreign country known as the San Francisco Bay Area. if you call any tech company nearby the odds of an American answering the phone are slim.

my city in the East Bay is majority foreign born/first generation "American". when I move I have been asked to take the flag with me.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (May 13, 2019)

ebay has been sucking since 1998 when they changed everything and screwed up the search function. I sold for 5 years straight, probably 3000 transactions, car parts, my old stash of bike parts which I wish I never sold, antiques and assorted old junk. only had two transactions I can really complain about. one guy bought a Hot Wheel from me in mint condition. he emailed saying there was a crack in the windshield I guess not knowing I had huge pictures of the car still on my computer, he wanted 20 bucks back or something, I just ignored that one.  had another guy from the UK who bought a fancy pen I sold fro a friend. he emailed me twice saying to send it as a gift so he did not have to pay customs, then when I did not do that he claimed it never arrived but nice guy that he was he would split the loss and only requested 1/2 a refund.

I tell you one thing there are far fewer rip offs in the car parts - antiques- bicycles side of things than in electronics or other modern junk.


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## Artdaddi (May 13, 2019)

MarkKBike said:


> I knew it was going to happen eventually, It seems there is nothing I could do as a seller to enforce ebays own policy.
> 
> A while back I sold a item, and got a very positive review for it. About a week later I then had a return request that simply stated that buyer changed there mind. I thought no problem, go ahead and return it. (My policy is that the buyer pays return shipping).
> 
> ...


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## Artdaddi (May 13, 2019)

I had the same poop happen on a NOS leather Harley Davidson helmet I never wore was new in the box kept in a closet in my house its whole life. The buyer said the foam protective liner disintegrated to nothing when they opened the box. Not a trace of it left inside the helmet I demanded they return it for review. EBAY granted this silly head a full refund including shipping because item was not as described. There is NO SELLER protection programs or policies for sellers. All the buyer has to say its not as described. I ebbed up with a useless helmet returned with all the foam protective liner missing. This silly head ruined a helmet any true Harley guy would have loved to own. He stole the foam protective liner for his use and returned me a useless shell. There was NO trace of any piece of foam liner at all so that tells me it came out clean new all in one piece. I try to sell all my items on Craigslist if I can now, that soured me to EBAY. I lost a easy $250 in that deal.


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## Glenn Rhein (May 14, 2019)

I got an item back because the buyer said it was ugly . I had posted many pictures and he could see clearly what he’s was getting. I have a no return policy but eBay sided with the buyer and on top I got negative feedback.  I called eBay and blasted their rep,She did admit that they always side with the buyer. I’m sure she wasn’t supposed to say that and she did remove the negative feedback.
Ebay and now PayPal suck


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## OldSkipTooth (May 14, 2019)

You can play hard ball and when the item arrives, inspect it and claim it has been altered and or damaged by the buyer. It’s total hardball, but if he is screwing you and making stuff up...


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## Goldenrod (May 15, 2019)

Move these words to eBay com. service?


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## MarkKBike (May 15, 2019)

The orriginal buyer has not even started to ship the item back yet, but he still has 5 more days to do so.

Whats Funny, here is my orriginal feedback for the item in question:
*"Excellent transaction I'm 100% satisfied with this purchase great for traveling. "*

Then these are the steps that followed after some time had passed:

*1. Ebay Message Recieved May 8th:*

_"The buyer xxxxxx is returning xxxxxxxx. Per eBay's policy, this return has been automatically approved and we've asked the buyer to send the item back.  We've asked the buyer to send the item back. After the buyer ships the item, we'll share the tracking information with you. Please inspect the item before issuing a refund. You must issue a refund within 2 days of item being delivered.   _

*2. On May 9th he Closed the return, and opened a Snad case after finding he was respocible for shipping.*

*3. Ebay Message Recieved May 9th: (Note there systems caught the activity, and they reviewed it without even me having to ask)*

_"The case was placed on hold temporarily. We will get back to you with an update on May 14, 2019. "_

*4. Second ebay message recieved May  9th about 4 hours later: (The "Not as described reason" is compleately made up, as the buyer already said they simply changed there mind in the first return process). I think that is one of the options they get to select when opening a snad case, because in text the buyer never once said this. He just said it did not have features he desired, and changed his mind.*

_"Hello, I'm contacting you about the return request filed for xxxxxxx_

_I've reviewed the details of the request and found that the best resolution is to ask the buyer to return the item to you for a full refund. Because the item was not as described, we're asking you to pay for the return shipping.  Please note that if you don't resolve the issue by May 13, we'll issue the buyer a full refund on your behalf without requiring the item to be returned._

_You have 2 options:
Issue a pre-paid shipping label and upload it to eBay
Send the buyer a PayPal payment to cover the return shipping"_

*5. After I already paid for and sent the buyer a return lable, I recieved this message on May 10th*

_"Thanks for trying to work with the buyer. Unfortunately, it looks like the issue wasn't resolved. We reviewed this case and decided to ask the buyer to return the item. The buyer will pay the return shipping costs. Once tracking information confirms that the item has been delivered to you, the buyer will be issued a refund. The refund includes the purchase price plus original shipping. This amount will be debited from the payment method on your eBay account_

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

E-bays dates in these messages are all over the place, and make no sense. There must be mutiple departments that respond to this stuff that are to lazy to read what has already been documented and sent out.

After I allready payed for a return lable, eBay sends me a message the following day that states the buyer is respouncible for the return shipping lable. Who knows how this will end up, but I'm betting there is a 50% chance he never sends it back, and just decides to keep it.

I bet many sellers just issue a refund and say keep it, (I have done this once myself in the past), as sometimes its not worth risking a seller rating and it was also a low dollar item. Note that the other buyer worked with me dirrectly and sent photos of the item, and it was damaged in shipping. They never opened a case under false information.

If the item is not shipped back by May 20th, I should be able to call eBay back and have the case closed.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I don't think this particular buyer intended to be a bad a guy. I think he is a buyer who purchased a Item, and later changed his mind. He was then unhappy to pay return shipping, and then started a process with out a full understanding of what it might mean to a small time seller. From looking at his history, I don't see any indication that he is a serial scammer.

I also have my seller security measures set at max capacity, and can block most of the bad buyers who have had complaints.

I block buyers who:
Have received 2 Unpaid Item strike(s) within 12 Month(s)
Have a primary shipping address in a location I don't ship to
Have a feedback score of -1 or lower
Are currently winning or have bought 10 of my items in the last 10 days

He has never once contacted me, but once this process is over I will send him a polite message explaining what a open case means to a seller, and that he should contact them dirrectly before a case is opened. I will also ask him to read terms and conditions before purchasing another item.

My opinion may change if the item is recieved back missing parts or is damaged. Or if he never even decides to send it back. (Per policy he still has 5 more days to intiate the return process), Even though he has now had a pre-paid un-used return lable in his possesion for 5 days already.

USPS Priority Tracking #: 9405509699939950627671


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## phantom (May 15, 2019)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> funny stuff! ebay IS in a foreign country known as the San Francisco Bay Area. if you call any tech company nearby the odds of an American answering the phone are slim.
> 
> my city in the East Bay is majority foreign born/first generation "American". when I move I have been asked to take the flag with me.



Part of the reason unemployment in the US is at an all time low. There are no minimum standards or requirements to work in customer service any more.


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## MarkKBike (May 19, 2019)

Well yesterday I found the item is on its way back, and I will be stuck with the bill.

Once its recieved, I will open up polite communiction with the buyer, and express my view points, and hopefully give him another perspective to consider though respectfull comunication.

At the very least. I'm hoping to prevent him from opening another case, when he could just as easily worked with the seller to find a solution.

Once eveything is completed, He will indeed be blocked, as I like to keep my life as simple as possible, and I do not enjoy dealing with all this crap.


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## Sven (May 19, 2019)

Mark 
you are way to nice.
I'd send that balloon knot a box of dog sh#t


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## Frank and Pam Skid Kings (May 20, 2019)

All I can say is that I can't believe how cheap a$$ people are to go to all the trouble they do to get a free ride. Whether or not they had buyers remorse or trying to get it for free, it's bad karma to be such a d-bag for the sake of a few lousy bucks they will probably blow on something else anyway. Makes a person feel good that you yourself don't have that low life screwed up mentality.


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## MarkKBike (May 24, 2019)

The buyer has been compleatly refunded and got this message sent from me:

_"Hello, I accommodated your request, but if you change your mind with purchased items in the future, I ask that you please work with any other sellers you purchase from before opening a case._

_No seller on ebay likes to see a case opened. If you would have contacted me dirrectly before opening a case I would have been happy to work with you dirrectly as I always keep my buyers 100% happy. You really should have contacted me dirrectly._

_Please keep this in mind when dealing with future purchases from other sellers."_

He is now blocked, so I should not see his response.


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## Artdaddi (Aug 13, 2019)

jimsbeercans said:


> I sold a nice 67 Slik Chik in 2014 with a beautiful white seat. Worth by itself the cost of the whole bike. 10 days later they opened a case saying " not as describded"
> got it shipped back with a purple seat!! Ebay / PP sided with them and basically and I got screwed. Had pics of before the deal and after the deal. Still the buyer is always right.BULL CRAP. Still pisses me off to this day.
> 
> keep us updated and other people comments.



I had the same thing happen they sided with the buyer even if you have detailed pictures pissed me off too


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## Artdaddi (Aug 13, 2019)

piercer_99 said:


> my big poke on ebay was about 15 years ago, I sold a Craftsman Riding mower, disclosed all that was and could be wrong with it.  I guy from Austin TX bought it, paid through paypal,  drove up to where I live and picked it up.  He was happy as heck with it when he left.   About a week later, he filed a claim through ebay, I was puzzled.   Anyway, I could not prove that he ever got the tractor, because I did not have any proof that it was shipped.  So, he got the tractor and he got his 800.00 back and I got poked.
> 
> Now, if there is a local pickup on an item, I still send a letter with tracking on it, and it is proof of delivery.  I have had 2 times since, that the proof of delivery through the post office, of a letter with a receipt, showed that the item was delivered and got to keep my money.
> 
> Of course, years ago, I had bought some software from someone in New York city, and they sent me a letter, with tracking on it, and nothing else.   As they had proof of delivery, I couldn't do anything about it and was out the money.




Some people are such low life’s all I can say is they will get theirs one day karma will return the crap they do to good people


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## Artdaddi (Aug 13, 2019)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> ebay has been sucking since 1998 when they changed everything and screwed up the search function. I sold for 5 years straight, probably 3000 transactions, car parts, my old stash of bike parts which I wish I never sold, antiques and assorted old junk. only had two transactions I can really complain about. one guy bought a Hot Wheel from me in mint condition. he emailed saying there was a crack in the windshield I guess not knowing I had huge pictures of the car still on my computer, he wanted 20 bucks back or something, I just ignored that one.  had another guy from the UK who bought a fancy pen I sold fro a friend. he emailed me twice saying to send it as a gift so he did not have to pay customs, then when I did not do that he claimed it never arrived but nice guy that he was he would split the loss and only requested 1/2 a refund.
> 
> I tell you one thing there are far fewer rip offs in the car parts - antiques- bicycles side of things than in electronics or other modern junk.



There are scum bags in every category looking to get a refund plus the item for free they know the ebay system inside and out and know how to use it against you


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Aug 13, 2019)

eBay is no longer an antiques auction. They’re another Amazon retailer.


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## bikesnbuses (Aug 14, 2019)

I dont know if its lucky or unluckily ..Man..I had a BAD run of buying stuff..9 out of 10 would be SLOW shipping,packed POORLY or hidden damage!(FWIW..NO ONE on HERE ) MOSTLY comic books,toys etc..But then they wanted ME to pay for return shipping??Of half the cost of the item lets say?? SERIOUSLY?


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## razinhellcustomz (Aug 14, 2019)

Artdaddi said:


> Some people are such low life’s all I can say is they will get theirs one day karma will return the crap they do to good people



Leave it to SCREW bay. Razin.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Aug 14, 2019)

GiovanniLiCalsi said:


> eBay is no longer an antiques auction. They’re another Amazon retailer.




while I am sure there are many new items on ebay  you can get from Amazon I never see them.  I buy Wyandotte Toys on ebay, there are currently 1,370 items for sale in two categories.  I'd say those are all antique auctions.


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## Phattiremike (Aug 15, 2019)

While battling cancer, I was inactive for a period, e-bay claimed they contacted me but there was no record of that.  They DELETED my account and wouldn't restore it with over 950 positive feedbacks.  I will take years to build up another 900+ positive feedbacks.


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## razinhellcustomz (Aug 16, 2019)

Phattiremike said:


> While battling cancer, I was inactive for a period, e-bay claimed they contacted me but there was no record of that.  They DELETED my account and wouldn't restore it with over 950 positive feedbacks.  I will take years to build up another 900+ positive feedbacks.



eway


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## razinhellcustomz (Aug 16, 2019)

Screw bay at it's FINEST!!!  Razin.


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