# Cleveland Welding Co. Roadmaster



## Kscheel

I'm going to be starting the restoration of the bike pictured below in about a week and I can't wait! Its all original from what I can tell and appears to have color scheme of black/white/red. The tires are vintage Firestone, not sure if they're original. They are actually in good shape but, of course in need of tubes.

Basically I plan to preserve the original paint, tires, and chrome. The paint and chrome is in better shape than the pictures show so, it should turn out pretty well with some basic polishing and elbow grease. Also note that the rear reflector is broken and a grip is missing. I was lucky enough to find all the needed parts at the Ann Arbor Classic Bike Show today. I also picked up a period Delta fender light and mirror with real glass reflector. I honestly don't remember if the fender has holes for the light or not but, I guess I'll find out when I get home from college. If the fender is not drilled, what do you all think about adding the light? I think it will look cool but, if its not original to the bike I have mixed feelings... Also can anyone guess as to the production period of the light?


----------



## RMS37

Your bike is fairly complete and original but the fork has been replaced at some point and is not a match to the original. The form of the forged crown and width of the blades are quite different from a CWC fork.

If there are no holes in the fender for a headlight it is likely the bike originally was supplied with a fork with a built in headlight strut like the one on Phattcat’s girl’s bike in which case it would have had a version of the softball light like the one on that bike. The stem is also a replacement. Folded steel stems actually date back to about the period of this bike but were not used by Roadmaster until later.

There isn’t much color saturation in your photos but it appears that a maroon color is bleeding through from beneath the black on the frame. It may be that the original colors were maroon with ivory or gray trim, both common CWC colors.


----------



## Kscheel

Well I guess I got screwed...theres $25 I'll never get back


----------



## Boris

Kscheel said:


> Well I guess I got screwed...theres $25 I'll never get back




I wouldn't be too sure about that. I'd take that heap off of your hands for $25. Seriously you only had to give $25. for that bike? Again, GREAT bike and a great deal for you.


----------



## RMS37

The bike would have been a great deal for several times what you paid for it and it is a good candidate for a restoration, to clean up and use as is, or anything you choose between the two. I mentioned the presence of the non-original parts so you would know that about the bike going in and so you would be aware of what to replace if that is important to you.


----------



## Kscheel

Yep, I was pleased with the deal and still am. With the parts I got today I still have less than $75 invested in it. 

I'm surprised that the fork is not original as everything matches so well in patina and color. The pictures look washed out because they were taken with my crappy cellphone camera. I plan on leaving it as-is, its been together like that for most of its life I'd wager. I know it sat in garage for something like 30 years collecting dust and cobwebs until I got a hold of it last summer.


----------



## RMS37

I mentioned the color saturation because it may give me a false reading when I make a call based on seeing the photo on my monitor. The bike frame is convincingly black in the picture I see except for what I read as maroon under hues showing through in a couple of places. If my reading is correct you may find more maroon as you begin to polish the bike. Also, maroon and gray with orange pin stripes is a common factory combination on these bikes. Black bikes would generally have black fenders with white trim and red pinstripes.

It does look like the current fork has been with this bike for some time. Patina itself can hide a lot of changes that were made to a bike when it was relatively new and often parts tend to grow old together over time.

I have to say again that I have brought up these points first, because you are talking about restoration and asking for information about the bike, and secondly, because if the fork change were important to you, you would be better off knowing about it now. I am not insinuating that there is any reason or need to change the bike unless it is something you want to.


----------



## Kscheel

Thank you for the information and insight, I appreciate it. No insult taken.

What kind of bike do you think the current fork is off of?


----------



## Kscheel

Also I plan on taking some comprehensive photos before I begin work on the bike. Does anyone have any suggestions of things to be sure get photos of?


----------



## vincev

Heres a pic of my 48 Western Flyer that looks a lot like your bike.hope this helps a little


----------



## BWbiker

*Pics*



Kscheel said:


> Also I plan on taking some comprehensive photos before I begin work on the bike. Does anyone have any suggestions of things to be sure get photos of?



 Every angle you can, details of pin stripes and darts if doing the paint. Can you provide the serial number?


----------



## Kscheel

Thanks. I'll have serial number to post tomorrow. I just got home from college and I need to dig the bike out.


----------



## Kscheel

I located the serial number yesterday. It is: C04254

I also went over all the fasteners with PB Blaster to help everything get loosened up. Unfortunately I think I may have been remembering the bike through a rose colored lens as the chrome pieces are rougher than I remember. The rims are especially bad. I'm going to try a few things on them and see if if they can be saved. If not I'll start looking for a new set. Originally would the wheels be chromed or painted?


----------



## BWbiker

*Chrome cleaning*



Kscheel said:


> I located the serial number yesterday. It is: C04254
> 
> I also went over all the fasteners with PB Blaster to help everything get loosened up. Unfortunately I think I may have been remembering the bike through a rose colored lens as the chrome pieces are rougher than I remember. The rims are especially bad. I'm going to try a few things on them and see if if they can be saved. If not I'll start looking for a new set. Originally would the wheels be chromed or painted?



You can save some pretty nasty looking surface rusted parts and rims by using a light brass bristle brush and a rust killer. Once you have turned it into oxide with the rust killer go after it with 0000 steel wool and light oil. Same with the spokes and hubs. Last clean them up with solvent and wax 'em. If you think the rims are original to the bike look inside and see if painted or chrome. They are probable drop centers if original. Phil should be able to shed more light on this. 
Brad


----------



## Kscheel

Well yesterday I started to tear into the bike. The photos below are the starting point and where I ended up. Also note that the odometer is dated with an ink stamp that has somehow survived all these years. June 24, 1946! The handle bars and rods were darn rusty and looked terrible but, they actually cleaned up pretty well. It looks like there may be some hope for the the rims.


----------



## Kscheel




----------



## Kscheel




----------



## Kscheel




----------



## Kscheel

So far things are going smoothly. Only one screwed up bolt. The mounting bolt for the kick-stand is stripped out so, I'll have to locate a replacement. Later on today I'm going to tackle the front fender and chainguard and then pull off the rear fender and tray.


----------



## Uniblab

I noticed that the chain guard doesn't have an open back when viewed from the left side...nice touch.


----------



## Kscheel

Can anyone help me out on finding a date of manufacture for this bike?


----------



## RMS37

You reported a serial number of C04254, Cleveland Welding repeated their primary serial numbers many times so the presence (or lack of) a serial number suffix is important for dating postwar CWC and CWC/AMF bicycles. It is also important to view the bike or have photos to help date CWC bikes based on general production changes that were instituted through these years. 


  Based on the photographs of you bike alone without the serial number, the build date can be bracketed between late 1946 and late 1949. Adding the serial number, C04254 to the equation, tightens the constraints to approximately the summer of 1947 if there are no suffix numbers stamped in the crank hanger, and probably the spring of 1948 if there is a Cw symbol stamped in the hanger following the primary serial number.


  The above opinion is based on my reading of all the data I have seen and recorded for Cleveland Welding Bicycles. Dating CWC bicycles will always be something of an art rather than a science without full factory documentation of their serial numbers.  If you want to get a closer reading on the bike’s date, the NBHAA does have extensive CWC factory production record and may be able to pin the date down more closely than anyone else can.


----------



## Kscheel

Thanks for the info Phil!    I'll make sure I post some photos of the serial number when I get around to working on the frame. I do know that there was the CW symbol following the serial number.


----------



## Rambler

As long as we are dating Cleveland Welding bicycles, how about making an educated estimate at the year of this Western Flyer Serial number E59961 left side tank has horn button on top front end of tank and inside the tank there is a 4 D-cell battery horn. Oh and by the way that is the same bike before and after I finished restoration.


----------



## RMS37

This bike belongs in the 4-Gill thread Bob Charnley is moderating! The serial number puts it squarely in 1939. It looks like it is badged as a Western Flyer and only a few hundred numbers sequentially earlier than the outstanding original Western Flyer 4-Gill in Mark Phisterer's collection.


----------



## Rambler

RMS37,
Thanks so much for the information. I thought it might be 1940 but even better that it is 1939. I always admired the teardrop shape of this bike and just knew I had to have it the day I spotted it at a flea market.


----------



## bricycle

Rambler....Job WELL DONE!!!!!


----------



## RMS37

Unless he has been counting in private since his last post and/or has already counted your bike, it will bring the total to nineteen 4-Gill bikes known to Bob Charnley (once he sees it).  

  You should post it to that thread to keep the juices flowing…

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?27308-Cleveland-Welding-4-Gill-bikes

  The 4-Gill model is not a common CWC bike. It was introduced in the 1939 catalog and again shown in the 1940 catalog. Production probably ran from late 1938 into early 1941 for the model. There are small variations between the two catalog years and between the in-house and Western Flyer versions of the bike. To date, the Western flyers that have surfaced have been equipped with the Shockmaster Springer and dual Persons headlights mounted on a bracket that holds them side by side and outboard of the front fender.

  [FONT=&amp]Some CWC bikes did use a plate crown fork on some models so it is possible that the one on your bike is factory, but as the top of the line bike for WF, I am skeptical it is original[/FONT].


----------



## Rambler

I did post it on the 4-Gill bikes thread.

All I can say about the fork is that this is the way I purchase the bike as you can see from the before photos. During restoration I saw absolutely no evidence at all that the fork had ever been replaced. What little paint did remain among the rust showed that all parts matched perfectly so I personally believe the fork was factory original and have no reason to doubt otherwise.


----------



## Kscheel

Not too much to report on the bike. I started a new summer job this week so work on the bike has slowed down. I've disassembled the wheels and cleaned the hubs and rims. The spokes are nasty so I'm looking into getting new ones. Can anyone make any recommendations on new replacement spokes?

I still need to tackle the frame but I'm saving that for last. My next job will be the chain guard. Its got lots of rust staining and needs some serious attention. From there I plant to take on the rear fender and rack. They are in really nice shape so that should be quick.

The seat is in good shape but the original leather is gone. Anyone have any thoughts on getting it recovered? Does anyone perhaps make a seat covering kit? 


Thats all for now--


----------

