# New Departure hub questions



## gregv (Mar 16, 2009)

hello all

putting together a wheel set for my Manton and Smith, and I'm thinking about running New Departure hubs front & rear along with some drop-center rims. Never having had or used a ND hub, I have a couple of questions:

a) the ND front hub looks like its almost identical to the same period (i.e. non-model 200) Schwinn front hub; are they related?

b) I see that Memory Lane sells brand new ND hubs; are these original, or did they make a run of these for the Western Flyer repros that came out some tme back? I guess I could always ask them, now that I think about it.....

c) how does a ND single-speed coatser rear hub compare to the same spec Bendix (I think the model is RB2)? I've run a few of the Bendix hubs, and I find them bullet-proof, with good braking; kind of important when you have no front brake I find.

And if anyone knows what a late 40's / early 50's M&S would have come with hub-wise I'd love to hear!

any info appreciated


greg v.


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## AntonyR (Mar 16, 2009)

gregv said:


> hello all
> 
> putting together a wheel set for my Manton and Smith, and I'm thinking about running New Departure hubs front & rear along with some drop-center rims. Never having had or used a ND hub, I have a couple of questions:
> 
> ...



Memory Lane sells rechromed ND hubs. There are no such repops. The front hubs vary in condition from them. The chrome is always good, but they rechrome anything that is servicable, regardless of outside condition. The last W hub I got from them was chromed over such badly pitted metal that you could hardly see the script. Another thing to watch for is the cones. They didn't have W cones so they just put WL cones on them. the WL cones are too small and will fail. Ask which cones they put on the hub before you order one. The rear ones are pretty much the standard on most ballooners. They work as well as anything else out there, plus if you burn up the discs, you just replace them, instead of replacing the whole hub like you'd have to do on others(the wearing surface on most hubs is the shell itself), which requires breaking down the wheel and re-lacing, etc.
They're easy to work on, and parts are readilly available. Plus the only service the rears require is once a year or so, topping up the oil in the filler with 20wt. 
With discs, they are a lot like automobiles- if you ride in areas with steep hills and you ride your brake a lot on the declines, they will fade and not work well until they cool down again. That's the only thing that I've ever noticed to watch for. Otherwise they're my favorite hub.


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## gregv (Mar 16, 2009)

AntonyR

thanks for the info, much appreciated.

So what is the difference between a model W, WD, and WL? Is there a particular type I should look for? I will more than likely end up running 14 or 15 gauge stainless spokes.

thanks!

greg v.


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## TigerCat (Mar 16, 2009)

I bought a front and rear a couple of weeks ago. The rear was a nice rechrome but the front had been chromed over some pits. I guess it's not as bad as some. I wish I'd known about the cone issue. Is it really obvious that they're too small ?


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## gregv (Mar 16, 2009)

AntonyR said:


> With discs, they are a lot like automobiles- if you ride in areas with steep hills and you ride your brake a lot on the declines, they will fade and not work well until they cool down again. That's the only thing that I've ever noticed to watch for. Otherwise they're my favorite hub.




hello again AntonyR

I was re-reading this, and just digested the whole fade issue you mention; this seems opposite to how my Bendix hubs work, as both the RB2 and the manually-shifted 2spd coaster I run get grippier and "snatchy" as they heat up, i.e. they actually start grabbing better as heat gets in them. They get a lot touchier as well though, you really have to use a carfeul foot pressure, and work them with a soft pulsing action or they lock and fry your tire. I remember heating up my RB2 on a very long and steep downhill to the point that the grease completely liquified and starting running out the various dust covers etc....

gv


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## AntonyR (Mar 16, 2009)

gregv said:


> AntonyR
> 
> thanks for the info, much appreciated.
> 
> ...



The W is the standard front hub, the WL is the lighter duty hub that was used on some base model bikes and what would be considered middle weights back then. The bearings and cones are smaller in the WL, and are not interchangeable with the W(the WL cone will thread onto the axle, but the outer dust cover doesn't cover the W bearing completely, and binds the ball carrier.). The WD has an integrated brake(front).
Stick with the W, unless you want a front brake, then go with the WD. 
Big spokes means drilling the spoke holes larger(unless you find a HD hub that's already sporting larger holes...).


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## AntonyR (Mar 16, 2009)

TigerCat said:


> I wish I'd known about the cone issue. Is it really obvious that they're too small ?




Definitely.


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## AntonyR (Mar 16, 2009)

gregv said:


> hello again AntonyR
> 
> I was re-reading this, and just digested the whole fade issue you mention; this seems opposite to how my Bendix hubs work, as both the RB2 and the manually-shifted 2spd coaster I run get grippier and "snatchy" as they heat up, i.e. they actually start grabbing better as heat gets in them. They get a lot touchier as well though, you really have to use a carfeul foot pressure, and work them with a soft pulsing action or they lock and fry your tire. I remember heating up my RB2 on a very long and steep downhill to the point that the grease completely liquified and starting running out the various dust covers etc....
> 
> gv



Heat expands, so that's the 'grabbing' reason. Of course, there will be people that swear that Bendix is the best, or Morrow is the best, etc. It's just personal preference...


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## gregv (Mar 16, 2009)

AntonyR

thanks again for all the info, you've helped me out a great deal.

Checking Sheldon Brown's site, 14 gauge works out to .080", and 15 gauge to .072"; I believe that these hubs will take 0.080", is this incorrect?

Again, thanks for all the info, I look forward to trying out a pair of these hubs!

cheers

greg v.


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## AntonyR (Mar 17, 2009)

95% are standard hubs, and take 80s.  The other 5% are heavy duty using  105 or more.(worksman or motorized). Just plan on buying 10 5/8 long, 80 gauge(a lot of people just refer to the .080 as "80 gauge" eventhough it's not the correct term)...


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## saxman (Mar 18, 2009)

Biggest problem with Bendix, as Antony points out, is once they are worn out, you have to buy a whole new hub. I prefer ND for that reason. As a kid, I discovered that, if you don't have any money, you can make discs from durn near anything that is the right thickness and flat, and it will more or less work.  I remember making discs from some old roofing copper and shoe soles. They didn't last very long, but they lasted long enough for me to mow some lawns and save up enough to get a replacement set of discs from my local bike shop.


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## AntonyR (Mar 18, 2009)

Dang Saxman, great story.


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## gregv (Mar 18, 2009)

*rims ahoy*

So looks like I got a pair of pre-war drop center rims coming that have ND hubs front & rear. I will need to switch the skip-tooth rear cog to a 1/2" pitch one; are these readily available for the model D? Should I get a new set of discs while I'm at it? Anything else I should consider getting at the same time, like bearings, or do those usually wear pretty tough as long as the grease is clean?

cheers

greg v.


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## AntonyR (Mar 18, 2009)

gregv said:


> So looks like I got a pair of pre-war drop center rims coming that have ND hubs front & rear. I will need to switch the skip-tooth rear cog to a 1/2" pitch one; are these readily available for the model D? Should I get a new set of discs while I'm at it? Anything else I should consider getting at the same time, like bearings, or do those usually wear pretty tough as long as the grease is clean?
> 
> cheers
> 
> greg v.



The cogs aren't 'readily' available. They're out there. Just gotta look. The bearings rarely wear to the point that they need to be replaced. A lot of times the discs are still good, especially if they came from a girl's bike. Look at the discs before you spend money on new ones. The only drawback is that the lock ring holding the cog on can be a real bear to loosen. (it's reverse thread too...)


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## gregv (Mar 19, 2009)

thanks Antony

got my eye on on on ebay right now.

cheers

gv


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## Parker (Mar 19, 2009)

I have a NOS half pitch sprocket attached to the driver with a good bearing inside the set nut. 
I'll sell it to yeah for cheap. Very shiny script set nut too. 

It was pulled out of a new hub to put a new triplspeed unit in.


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## gregv (Mar 19, 2009)

Parker

pm sent!

gv


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## AntonyR (Mar 19, 2009)

Awsome. Nice when things work out this easilly.


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