# Need some Westfield Columbia bicycle help



## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 17, 2019)

Hey all, 
 I've come across a 1940 Westfield special deluxe for sale. Made by Columbia, has a Pope head badge on the front. It looks to be in original condition with original paint, no large dents anywhere. Has both fenders, chain guard, torpedo headlight. Without a tank. What are the prices on these bikes in original rust free patina condition?


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 17, 2019)

Pictures ?


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 17, 2019)




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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 17, 2019)

Beautiful !    That's Super nice !   Value is subjective.   It can be ALL over the board.   Enjoy that bad boy !      I got mine for less than $500.00    I added the rack , and seat afterwards.


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 17, 2019)

Pope I think might be a good one


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 17, 2019)

CURTIS L LINDGREN said:


> Pope I think might be a good one



The guy selling it wants $300 firm


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 17, 2019)

To me that seems reasonable.  It looks nice .   Give it a good lookover . See how " Solid" it feels .   That's a nice bike.


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 17, 2019)

Will do!


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## Mr. Monkeyarms (Apr 17, 2019)

I would be on that like stink on a yeti at $300! I don't recall seeing that color on a boys bike before.  Looks to be in great shape! Earlier Westfield built bikes had the coolest chainguards and that one is one of my faves. They ride good too!


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 18, 2019)

Haha yeah same for me, the chainguard really sets the look off. And the pinstriping as well. So this color is rare then? I tried finding one in this color on Google and couldnt. 
So $300 is a good price for it? I try really justifying spending the cash, in hopes If I sell it someday I'll get back what I spent or make money off it.


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 18, 2019)

I don't think you can go wrong with that bike.    offer $250.00     all they can say is no..............then give 'em their price         not sure about the colors being rare,  but  I don't ever see POPE bikes


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 18, 2019)

That's true I'm sure it's worth the 300. Cant wait to buy it and clean it up


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 18, 2019)

I wish I could find more information on these Pope Westfields


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 18, 2019)

The History of Pope/Westfield/columbia.........................and I think a few more names  were made by the same co. , at different times ......and by different "Owners"   .     It's very confusing. but there are people here that have some very well executed timelines and such , that is helpful.  There's a lot to it.  I'm confused , but I have fun with it all.   Gotta love the 'ol interweb................You can find darn near anything on it ! Here's my Head badge.     Ride Safe. .


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 18, 2019)

That's where I am with it too haha a little confused but it's a good time. Very cool


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## Two Wheeler (Apr 18, 2019)

Car&bikeguy555 said:


> Hey all,
> I've come across a 1940 Westfield special deluxe for sale. Made by Columbia, has a Pope head badge on the front. It looks to be in original condition with original paint, no large dents anywhere. Has both fenders, chain guard, torpedo headlight. Without a tank. What are the prices on these bikes in original rust free patina condition?



Buy it!


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 18, 2019)

Dan Shabel said:


> Buy it!



Right!? I know


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 18, 2019)

I know I'm a noob, but any reason why a lock would be under the seat?


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 18, 2019)

Or why there are two reflectors under a reflector?


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 18, 2019)

Hmmmmmm........3 Reflectors.    The Aluminum one is nice...............the other 2  added  AFTERWARDS ............. MAYBE.     People store locks all over the place....................probly lost the dern key !


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## Freqman1 (Apr 18, 2019)

1941


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 18, 2019)

Freqman1 said:


> 1941



You know?


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## Mercian (Apr 19, 2019)

Hi,

very easy to date with the two sets of letters/numbers stamped under the bottom of the crank tube (BB).

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 19, 2019)

I had the owner get back to me with a number. Its J1 -G35983


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## 3-speeder (Apr 19, 2019)

Maybe '42?  Sweet looking bike. Love to grab that one


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## Mercian (Apr 19, 2019)

Hi, and Thanks,

3-speeder is correct, 1942. But here's a link to a more accurate Westfield serial number listing (I know, I wrote it (-; )

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-frame-numbers-1933-1945.100743/



Car&bikeguy555 said:


> I had the owner get back to me with a number. Its J1 -G35983




J1, G35983 was made in January 1942, and was one of the last civillian bicycles before the war. It just predates manufacture of the Military model G519 bikes, based on the same frame.

Very Nice!

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## old hotrod (Apr 19, 2019)

Car&bikeguy555 said:


> View attachment 982758
> Or why there are two reflectors under a reflector?



it is common to find the bike lock latched to the seat, I guess the question is, where else would you put it that it won't rattle around or damage the paint. And the two reflectors are filling the two extra holes for a dropstand clip…common Westfield thing to have a kickstand and holes for a clip but no dropstand.


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 19, 2019)

Thanks for the useful information guys. Great to know


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 19, 2019)

Mercian said:


> Hi, and Thanks,
> 
> 3-speeder is correct, 1942. But here's a link to a more accurate Westfield serial number listing (I know, I wrote it (-; )
> 
> ...



Great work with the serial number guide! Is there any significance or rarity being a Pope Westfield over any of the other westfield makers of this era?


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## Mercian (Apr 19, 2019)

Car&bikeguy555 said:


> Great work with the serial number guide! Is there any significance or rarity being a Pope Westfield over any of the other westfield makers of this era?




No, there is no special significance. It may indicate a slightly different parts set up, or perhaps retail in a particular area, it's a bit like 'Badge Engineered' cars in that respect.

It is nice, and I personally think good value. But then I'm biased towards bikes of this particular era (-:

I should add that I am currently updating this list with a couple of hundred more bicycles, and thank you for supplying another example. 

The list will be published on CABE when done.


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 19, 2019)

Mercian said:


> No, there is no special significance. It may indicate a slightly different parts set up, or perhaps retail in a particular area, it's a bit like 'Badge Engineered' cars in that respect.
> 
> It is nice, and I personally think good value. But then I'm biased towards bikes of this particular era (-:
> 
> ...



You may use this , if you like.     Curt.


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## Mercian (Apr 19, 2019)

Hi Kurt,

Thanks for that - everything helps (-:

As you may know, it's J90786, which is late 1945 (probably Nov-Dec). This is wrong, sorry about that. It should be L90786, 1947. Please see my next post below.

Stamping J on the bb was a real problem because the tail of the J would go missing. It is also stamped with a new stamping tool, in comparison to previous bikes. I think the problem with the curved surface and this tool is why they moved the numbers onto the flat area of the rear dropout shortly after this.

The bike at the bottom of this page is badged the same, and is a similar date, but has the red/white colour scheme instead.

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-frame-numbers-1933-1945.100743/

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 19, 2019)

1st Off ,  THANKS for the info.    I thought '47     My bike has NO ears for a drop stand...............the Red/white bike has 'em.    Mine maybe a newer frame style ?      Love the knowledge here on the Cabe


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## Mercian (Apr 20, 2019)

Hi Curt,

Thanks for your kind reply, and so I must apologise for giving you the wrong information.

You are quite correct, it's a 1947, L90786.

After your comment about the frame, I went off and educated myself a bit better, here are some other 1947 examples:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/j-c-higgins.6247/#post-205061

It's also noticeable that the same badge shape with different designs on it is often used at this point.

It also reinforces what I said about the problems of stamping a J or L on the bb. I fell for it!

So again, sorry for that. .

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 20, 2019)

Thanks for the update Adrian.  It's all making more sense now .  Bike manufacturing ,and Timelines are SOOOOOOOO Confusing .  All the parts switching ,delays , using up old stock........Multiple brands/Names from the same Maker...........ALL OF IT..................I gotta tip my hat to EVERYONE who has spent the time to do this kind of research.  it must have been exhausting !   Heck..................I'm exhausted just thinking about doin' that.


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 20, 2019)

I got it! First prewar, first baloon tire for me. Definately worth the 1-1/2 hour drive. It is awesome in person


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 20, 2019)

Alright !!!!!!    You did it .    Lucky no one snagged it while you were contemplating.     That bike has a great look to it.   Great Color Combo. Great all around.   What Tires are on that ?    ALSO   I think you can get a lenze for your fender light from Cindi Vette or Cindy Vette ............can't remember  ( ON Ebay) Ya Dunn Good !


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 20, 2019)

Thanks!!! Yeah I'm really digging it haha. I was searching online to try to find a lense for the light just now actually. The front tire is "Allstate Crusader" and the rear tire is "Dave's Deluxe". Neither are in terrible condition, a few dry cracks here and there.


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 20, 2019)

Sounds like you lucked out with the tires as well.    No one ever seems to "Let on"  about what tires are on a bike.  They ARE important , for that Authentic Period Look .   If they can be ridden.................YEE HAW !!!!    Let's go ride !     Here's what came with mine.  It's a PLUS  your light works .


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 20, 2019)

Haha yeah I hear that, It was a plus to find out the tires looked original as they should look. Your tires look nice and fitting. 
Oh yeah, for the light, are there specific bulbs or volts/watts to be used with the D batteries? I think the one I have is a 4 watt light bulb. Would a 2 watt be brighter you think?


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 20, 2019)

2 Watt might be  brighter..................but may get a shortened  life.   2 "D" Cells , right ?     Try a   3 Volt one .    That matches the voltage from the batteries.    Bulbs ,   darn them.  I have such a mix going , I don't know what's what anymore.   They still have a good selection at our local Ace Hardware stores here in Wa. .    Try a few different ones........................you probably WILL see a difference.                 I'm betting you didn't get the key to that lock ...............huh ?


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 20, 2019)

Lol nope no key... I asked the guy (which was a consignor), any chance you have the key for that lock? He was like... "I didnt even know it was there" Haha.
 Then he told me the guy that found the bike, cleans out barns for a living, and the bike came from the original owners grandson. It had been sitting in the family's barn for however many years. 
I'll have to check my local Ace and see if they have those bulbs


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 20, 2019)

My "Barn find "  bike is not even in the same class as yours .   I came to the determination that, at some point (In the Barn) the bike fell over on it's side...............................THEN.....................a roof leak developed...................and dripped directly onto the Center of the bike.........so it rusts out in a circular pattern.    IT WAS ROUGH !     but I dig it.     It's a   1950  Monark  Silver King Super Deluxe    These were the 1st pictures I saw of it .


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## Two Wheeler (Apr 20, 2019)

Car&bikeguy555 said:


> View attachment 983723I got it! First prewar, first baloon tire for me. Definately worth the 1-1/2 hour drive. It is awesome in person



Here’s a 47 version that’s missing a few parts.


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 20, 2019)

Dan Shabel said:


> Here’s a 47 version that’s missing a few parts.
> 
> View attachment 983956



Those Tires look great on your bike.     Excellent choice on the background as well.   Your bike looks good all Barebones


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 21, 2019)

CURTIS L LINDGREN said:


> My "Barn find "  bike is not even in the same class as yours .   I came to the determination that, at some point (In the Barn) the bike fell over on it's side...............................THEN.....................a roof leak developed...................and dripped directly onto the Center of the bike.........so it rusts out in a circular pattern.    IT WAS ROUGH !     but I dig it.     It's a   1950  Monark  Silver King Super Deluxe    These were the 1st pictures I saw of it .
> 
> View attachment 983908
> 
> View attachment 983909



Wow yeah that's what it looks like happened. Cool centered bike rust look though


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## Mr. Monkeyarms (Apr 21, 2019)

Car&bikeguy555 said:


> View attachment 982757
> I know I'm a noob, but any reason why a lock would be under the seat?





Car&bikeguy555 said:


> That's a great place to put your lock without it beating up the paint and clanging around. Plus it's with the bike wherever you go.
> 
> View attachment 982758
> Or why there are two reflectors under a reflector?




The extra reflectors are filling holes where the drop stand clip was attached to the fender. This bike would have had a drop stand originally. 

Congrats on a sweet bike!!


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 21, 2019)

Thanks!!   
Hm wonder if I could find a drop stand for it. Idk if there are different sizes. Also I cant find a headlight lense even on ebay...  I think that's my next move if I could come across one


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 21, 2019)

You can find drop stands.   Their not cheap.   ALSO  ,  yes , different sizes and styles.   Search for one that is specific to Westfield/Columbia .  Others may work . You will also need the clip.  All clips do not fit all stands....................so get the two together if you can.     Measure your bike ahead of your search ( Hole behind the "Ears "  at rear dropout )  to farthest point back on rear fender .  this should get you in the ballpark for "length"        Not sure if your should be braced or not.   Maybe someone here has one you can see for the style , and measurements.   Be patient you will find one.       Almost forgot.............What diameter lenze do you need....................I have some spares layin' around .


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 21, 2019)

CURTIS L LINDGREN said:


> You can find drop stands.   Their not cheap.   ALSO  ,  yes , different sizes and styles.   Search for one that is specific to Westfield/Columbia .  Others may work . You will also need the clip.  All clips do not fit all stands....................so get the two together if you can.     Measure your bike ahead of your search ( Hole behind the "Ears "  at rear dropout )  to farthest point back on rear fender .  this should get you in the ballpark for "length"        Not sure if your should be braced or not.   Maybe someone here has one you can see for the style , and measurements.   Be patient you will find one.       Almost forgot.............What diameter lenze do you need....................I have some spares layin' around .



Thanks, I'll have to do a measurement on both, the drop stand and the light lense. I could hold off on the drop stand for now with the high prices. I do need a lense though! Do you know if you can take the headlight switch apart and clean the contacts? I have to find a point with the switch to where the light stays on. I cant turn it on by switching it all the way to the on position for the light to come on


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 21, 2019)

Try Some electrical contact spray (  I use CRC ,  QD Electronic Cleaner )  Red can with white labeling .   Also-----------corrosion can be a bitch.   CLEAN CONTACT IS THE KEY   Some switches are easily taken apart............others not easy.       I'm always goin' round and round with this kind of stuff.    Keep at it..............you will be successful !


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 21, 2019)

CURTIS L LINDGREN said:


> You can find drop stands.   Their not cheap.   ALSO  ,  yes , different sizes and styles.   Search for one that is specific to Westfield/Columbia .  Others may work . You will also need the clip.  All clips do not fit all stands....................so get the two together if you can.     Measure your bike ahead of your search ( Hole behind the "Ears "  at rear dropout )  to farthest point back on rear fender .  this should get you in the ballpark for "length"        Not sure if your should be braced or not.   Maybe someone here has one you can see for the style , and measurements.   Be patient you will find one.       Almost forgot.............What diameter lenze do you need....................I have some spares layin' around .



Also, is your bike the same as mine, but a 47'? Is yours a special deluxe too? I've seen with tank, without tank. And with a small thin chain guard and the guard I have. I'm still trying to make the connection between models


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 21, 2019)

CURTIS L LINDGREN said:


> Try Some electrical contact spray (  I use CRC ,  QD Electronic Cleaner )  Red can with white labeling .   Also-----------corrosion can be a bitch.   CLEAN CONTACT IS THE KEY   Some switches are easily taken apart............others not easy.       I'm always goin' round and round with this kind of stuff.    Keep at it..............you will be successful !
> 
> View attachment 984299



Yeah! I've got some crc electronic cleaner. Why didnt I think to use it. If that fails I'll try to carefully take the switch apart to brush the contacts. It looks like, if you bend the metal pins back the back of the switch should come off


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Apr 21, 2019)

Car&bikeguy555 said:


> Also, is your bike the same as mine, but a 47'? Is yours a special deluxe too? I've seen with tank, without tank. And with a small thin chain guard and the guard I have. I'm still trying to make the connection between models



Our bikes are similar , but not the same.    Yours is Pre War -----------Mine is Post War          I have NO ears for a drop Stand       Yours does have 'em    I don't know which model mine is .    The only markings are on the headbadge .


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 21, 2019)

CURTIS L LINDGREN said:


> Our bikes are similar , but not the same.    Yours is Pre War -----------Mine is Post War          I have NO ears for a drop Stand       Yours does have 'em    I don't know which model mine is .    The only markings are on the headbadge .



Ohh okay


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 25, 2019)

CURTIS L LINDGREN said:


> You can find drop stands.   Their not cheap.   ALSO  ,  yes , different sizes and styles.   Search for one that is specific to Westfield/Columbia .  Others may work . You will also need the clip.  All clips do not fit all stands....................so get the two together if you can.     Measure your bike ahead of your search ( Hole behind the "Ears "  at rear dropout )  to farthest point back on rear fender .  this should get you in the ballpark for "length"        Not sure if your should be braced or not.   Maybe someone here has one you can see for the style , and measurements.   Be patient you will find one.       Almost forgot.............What diameter lenze do you need....................I have some spares layin' around .



Just now getting back to you about the lense size. Looks like the opening is 1-5/8"


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## razinhellcustomz (Aug 1, 2020)

Car&bikeguy555 said:


> View attachment 982302View attachment 982303View attachment 982304View attachment 982305



I bought my Columbia Rambler for $250.00 and is not quite as nice as yours. Good luck and Ride on. Razin.


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## razinhellcustomz (Aug 1, 2020)

Car&bikeguy555 said:


> View attachment 982757
> I know I'm a noob, but any reason why a lock would be under the seat?



That's a really good question. Enquiring minds might wonder the same thing. Good place for it any ways. Razin.


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## razinhellcustomz (Aug 1, 2020)

Mr. Monkeyarms said:


> I would be on that like stink on a yeti at $300! I don't recall seeing that color on a boys bike before.  Looks to be in great shape! Earlier Westfield built bikes had the coolest chainguards and that one is one of my faves. They ride good too!



Unless you have one with a bent crank like mine. I have a replacement crank, but have'nt gotten to replace it yet
 The bike still rides just not that great. Ride On. Razin.


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## razinhellcustomz (Aug 1, 2020)

old hotrod said:


> it is common to find the bike lock latched to the seat, I guess the question is, where else would you put it that it won't rattle around or damage the paint. And the two reflectors are filling the two extra holes for a dropstand clip…common Westfield thing to have a kickstand and holes for a clip but no dropstand.



Interesting. I think my Rambler has the same two holes for the drop stand clip. Thanks for the info. Razin.


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## razinhellcustomz (Aug 1, 2020)

CURTIS L LINDGREN said:


> Thanks for the update Adrian.  It's all making more sense now .  Bike manufacturing ,and Timelines are SOOOOOOOO Confusing .  All the parts switching ,delays , using up old stock........Multiple brands/Names from the same Maker...........ALL OF IT..................I gotta tip my hat to EVERYONE who has spent the time to do this kind of research.  it must have been exhausting !   Heck..................I'm exhausted just thinking about doin' that.



Me too!! Great job every one. Thanks. Razin.


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## razinhellcustomz (Aug 1, 2020)

CURTIS L LINDGREN said:


> My "Barn find "  bike is not even in the same class as yours .   I came to the determination that, at some point (In the Barn) the bike fell over on it's side...............................THEN.....................a roof leak developed...................and dripped directly onto the Center of the bike.........so it rusts out in a circular pattern.    IT WAS ROUGH !     but I dig it.     It's a   1950  Monark  Silver King Super Deluxe    These were the 1st pictures I saw of it .
> 
> View attachment 983908
> 
> View attachment 983909



Really neat bike Curtis. Do you still have this bike? Really cool patina. Thanks for sharing. Razin.


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## razinhellcustomz (Aug 1, 2020)

CURTIS L LINDGREN said:


> You can find drop stands.   Their not cheap.   ALSO  ,  yes , different sizes and styles.   Search for one that is specific to Westfield/Columbia .  Others may work . You will also need the clip.  All clips do not fit all stands....................so get the two together if you can.     Measure your bike ahead of your search ( Hole behind the "Ears "  at rear dropout )  to farthest point back on rear fender .  this should get you in the ballpark for "length"        Not sure if your should be braced or not.   Maybe someone here has one you can see for the style , and measurements.   Be patient you will find one.       Almost forgot.............What diameter lenze do you need....................I have some spares layin' around .



Hey Curtis, just picked up a really nice 65 Schwinn Fiesta girls bike with the "S" logo head lite on the fender that needs a lens. I think the lens is around 3/4"in diameter. Thanks. Razin.


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## all riders (Aug 1, 2020)

Car&bikeguy555 said:


> Lol nope no key... I asked the guy (which was a consignor), any chance you have the key for that lock? He was like... "I didnt even know it was there" Haha.
> Then he told me the guy that found the bike, cleans out barns for a living, and the bike came from the original owners grandson. It had been sitting in the family's barn for however many years.
> I'll have to check my local Ace and see if they have those bulbs



There could be a spare key inside the handlebars--worth a look


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## razinhellcustomz (Aug 1, 2020)

razinhellcustomz said:


> Me too!! Great job every one. Thanks. Razin.





all riders said:


> There could be a spare key inside the handlebars--worth a look



That would be a good place to stash a spare key. Good luck. Razin.


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## bleedingfingers (Aug 1, 2020)

Get an led bulb for that headlight should be able to find a Chinese one on Ebay that's where I got mine super bright and batteries last a long time .
It will make it a more usable headlight .


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## Car&bikeguy555 (Apr 7, 2021)

bleedingfingers said:


> Get an led bulb for that headlight should be able to find a Chinese one on Ebay that's where I got mine super bright and batteries last a long time .
> It will make it a more usable headlight .



Waaaaaay late response on my part haha. I did get an led bulb. Works way better than a regular bulb


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