# First purchase / restoration / ID / gateway drug - I think this will be fun !



## spleeft

Hello all , 
 After buying tools and researching and learning to maintain my mountain bikes for the last 4 years ,  I've made my first old bike purchase and plan to restore and use this bike. I think it will be a gateway to many more restorations ! I'm seeking advice on first steps, ( do I disassemble- re grease- reassemble ), seek out original parts ( are they even available), try to keep original paint and chrome parts, etc? I want to ride this bike during our frequent surf trips to the beach ( instead of taking my high dollar mountain bike ) and use it as a learning tool for future restorations. 
Here is the sellers pic, I'm picking it up tonight and will add any other info to help ID


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## Two Wheeler

Go to the home page and scroll to the bottom. Read everything under Etc. that interests you.


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## Frank and Pam Skid Kings

Welcome and like Dan Shabel said all the info is on this site. You can use the search feature and find just about anything.


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## Lonestar

spleeft said:


> Hello all ,
> After buying tools and researching and learning to maintain my mountain bikes for the last 4 years ,  I've made my first old bike purchase and plan to restore and use this bike. I think it will be a gateway to many more restorations ! I'm seeking advice on first steps, ( do I disassemble- re grease- reassemble ), seek out original parts ( are they even available), try to keep original paint and chrome parts, etc? I want to ride this bike during our frequent surf trips to the beach ( instead of taking my high dollar mountain bike ) and use it as a learning tool for future restorations.
> Here is the sellers pic, I'm picking it up tonight and will add any other info to help ID
> View attachment 1313928



Cool bike! If it were me, I'd get some chrome BMX forks, Old School BMX stem & some wide BMX cruiser bars. Perfect surf bike!


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## catfish

Welcome to the addiction. Bikes are a great hobby.


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## Archie Sturmer

Looks like a gold A&S Chicago bike. 
For a beach cruiser, maybe replace the bumpy-ride tonight tires (at seat and handlebar) with Duro white-walls, Goodyear diamonds & Schwinn small-bricks; I see some also offered with stylish accent "stripes".
Maybe ride the bike for a while, to see what you might like to keep or change about features/parts, based on beach-path distances, hills, and speeds, etc.


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## spleeft

Thanks for all the tips , I will continue to comb through all of my search results and look into the chrome and tires!


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## Hammerhead

Good find and welcome.  Looks to be Typhoon to me. Lots of good information here. I would clean, grease and some new tires. Then ride to see what you may or may not want to change.  With no fenders some nice straight wheels and longer chain so the sits further back. You can get some wide tires on these middleweight bikes. Good luck with whichever you decide to do. Stay healthy,have fun and enjoy the ride.
Hammerhead


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## Lonestar

catfish said:


> Welcome to the addiction. Bikes are a great hobby.



Tell that to my wife!  She wants her dining room back!


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## Two Wheeler

Lonestar said:


> Tell that to my wife!  She wants her dining room back!



Lol, dining rooms are overrated!


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## Rivnut

Grease doesn't wash out of table cloths. Keep the wife happy or this my be you first and last vintage rebuild.  Schwinns are plentiful so you should have no problems finding what you're looking for. Carefully read the thread on tires for middleweight Schwinns before buying new ones.  In Schwinn's math book, 1-3/4" IS NOT equal to 1.75".  In other words, 26 x 1.75 tires will not fit Schwinn 26" S7 wheels.  You need 26 x 1-3/4" tires.  Sounds the same but they are not.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

Yes a typhoon in desirable coppertone only a few years of that color. I love my middleweights. What type of hub is on the rear wheel? Great bike to cut your teeth on. You will be surprised not much to go wrong you may not need anything but tires. Make sure you get the correct tires for S-7 wheels. good luck


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## MEKANIXFIX

Hello stay safe w the family! This Schwinn in copper tone, you will find info & parts here! As the other fellow cabers said, verify the tires & rims, they're S7 or S2 rims whit Schwinn tire sizes! Also you can scroll down the main page and find the middleweight forum whit more info! Also when you have the list for parts, post it at the want section to buy*! Good luck


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## spleeft

catfish said:


> Welcome to the addiction. Bikes are a great hobby.



Thansk CatF !
 P.S. this link leads to pic of John Candy


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## Swampthing

Careful. 
it all starts with a new wrench. 
then you are getting a better screwdriver. 
then a bigger wrench for those headsets, maybe a crank puller, rust away, paint, grease, oil, who knows where it stops. 
Do you ever look at Craig’s list fist thing in the morning for old “junk”?
Cruise the streets the night before trash pickup?
be afraid. 
enjoy the ride.


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## spleeft

Hammerhead said:


> Good find and welcome.  Looks to be Typhoon to me. Lots of good information here. I would clean, grease and some new tires. Then ride to see what you may or may not want to change.  With no fenders some nice straight wheels and longer chain so the sits further back. You can get some wide tires on these middleweight bikes. Good luck with whichever you decide to do. Stay healthy,have fun and enjoy the ride.
> Hammerhead





Hammerhead said:


> and longer chain so the sits further back



Thanks for the reply, HH  could you restate this?


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## spleeft

Rivnut said:


> Grease doesn't wash out of table cloths. Keep the wife happy or this my be you first and last vintage rebuild.  Schwinns are plentiful so you should have no problems finding what you're looking for. Carefully read the thread on tires for middleweight Schwinns before buying new ones.  In Schwinn's math book, 1-3/4" IS NOT equal to 1.75".  In other words, 26 x 1.75 tires will not fit Schwinn 26" S7 wheels.  You need 26 x 1-3/4" tires.  Sounds the same but they are not.



 Its funny that after wrenching on mountain bikes for 3 years, this bike ( and the idea of restoring old bikes to just meander around the beach/campsite on ) , seems to have really resonated with the wife ha ha !! She already wants one for her ! 
  Good tips on finding new tires, Also I can already see I def want a matching front rim and matching tires. Any tips on finding the rim?


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## spleeft

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Yes a typhoon in desirable coppertone only a few years of that color. I love my middleweights. What type of hub is on the rear wheel? Great bike to cut your teeth on. You will be surprised not much to go wrong you may not need anything but tires. Make sure you get the correct tires for S-7 wheels. good luck



 Thanks for the reply'69, I really like the color too. I was going back and forth over painting it or not, but I dont want to cover the "Swchinn" logos and badge on the seat tube so I think Ill try to just get rid of rust and touch up maybe?? 
Heres a pic of the rear hub, and stamp on rear triangle.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

Nice score that is a 2 speed hub you pedal backwards like you do for braking but it switches between regular gearing and low gear to go up hill. A little funky at first but you will get the hang of it. That is a real nice extra, as far as the front rim ask in wanted but there are some for sale on feebay. You can't match the durability of the original paint even though it is beat up most prefer original paint even if not perfect. I want a coppertone to go with my collection .I'm jealous. I have 2 speed on my '62 fleet I love it fun to ride.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

If you did decide to repaint all the correct water slide decals like the originals  are available.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

sorry about your steelers


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## davek

That chrome will clean up better than you might think. Schwinn used a very durable chrome. A little wood bleach bath and copper scrubbies then take another look


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## Goldenrod

Dan Shabel said:


> Lol, dining rooms are overrated!




You can always eat off of the bike.


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## spleeft

"69, Wow a 2-Speed eh?!!! Thats so cool, love the engineering. I was wondering what changed when I took it for a spin!  Ive watched a bunch of vids on servicing coaster brake hubs, is this 2 speed hub much diff? Any tips on the Dissemble / re grease process?


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

I haven't tried servicing mine yet that is a winter  project. I cant imagine its to much worse the traditional hub but I could be wrong. If you go to the workshop forum there should be some referrences for the hub repair and maintenance . I just picked up a '69 in campus green no 2 speed but as Davek stated the older chrome cleans up beautifully. Keep posting pics and progress.


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## spleeft

Thanks all for putting up with newb questions, I'll immerse for a while and be back with updates.
P.S.  '69, the Steelers def needed a loss to get their asses back in gear ! They are at their best on the heals ha ha !!!


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## Rivnut

The chrome on Schwinn bikes is very durable. That surface rust should come off easily. Make a ball of aluminum foil, wet it, and start rubbing on the rust. Same for the hubs, chain ring and any other chrome.  Look at some Schwinn brochures and have your wife pick a model.  The basic frame can be whatever model you want by adding extra bling.


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## MEKANIXFIX

Hi you can use steel wool medium & fine,also vinegar w a soft brush, then metal polish to finish! For the paint clean & buff w wax!


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## MEKANIXFIX

For the Bendix 2 speed automatic,be careful it's work very different than the regular Bendix 1 speed or other brands also the red,blue aren't the same inside! Here's photo in exploded view! Those 2 speed are tricky, if need to be service ask for help!


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## Rivnut

Same bike, same parts.  Lots of aluminum foil and elbow grease.  Repaint and new decal set. Correct seat.  This is the first one that I did.  There are a bunch of others since.


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## Rivnut

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> sorry about your steelers



The harder part for me is that I live in Kansas City amongst a family of Chiefs fans


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## Rivnut

Some of the "bunch of others."


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

Wow wow wow wow, really beautiful work Riv, how long ago did you do that first one?


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## MEKANIXFIX

Rivnut said:


> The harder part for me is that I live in Kansas City amongst a family of Chiefs fans
> View attachment 1314814



Your cap remember me when I visited the pirates baseball & the yellow bridge of Roberto Clemente,also Mr Craig Morrow & his bike museum,we take the river trail,& passed around that football stadium!


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## spleeft

WOW , nice collection RIv !
My serial Number is JD63982 found on the left rear drop out. research indicates this is Sept 1968 ? What do the remaining 5 number indicate?


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## GTs58

spleeft said:


> WOW , nice collection RIv !
> My serial Number is JD63982 found on the left rear drop out. research indicates this is Sept 1968 ? What do the remaining 5 number indicate?




The numbers after the letters in this particular serial system does not indicate anything. If you have an earlier number say C3xxxxx the letter is the month and the first digit after is the year. March 1963 is when the serial number was stamped on the drop out part.


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## spleeft

GTs58 said:


> The numbers after the letters in this particular serial system does not indicate anything. I you have an earlier number say C3xxxxx the letter is the month and the first digit after is the year. March 1963 is when the serial number was stamped on the drop out part.



Thanks GT,was just wondering.


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## Rivnut

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Wow wow wow wow, really beautiful work Riv, how long ago did you do that first one?



It's been at least 5 or 6 years. It took a long time to do.  Not because i didnt have time, but it took time reading through threads on this forum learning what the techniques were for everything.


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## Rivnut

My serial Number is JD63982 found on the left rear drop out. research indicates this is Sept 1968 ? What do the remaining 5 number indicate?
[/QUOTE]

If the years 65 and later followed patterns established earlier, the JD would indicate September of 1968. J is 10th letter of the alphabet, but Schwinn did not use an I fearing it could be interpreted as a 1. So J becomes the  9th letter which corresponds to September, the 9th month.  D = 1968.  (A =1965,  B = 1966, etc.) So JD is September 1968. The numbers following would be sequential production numbers.  Look at the Angelfire website for decoding Schwinn serial numbers.  The bikehistory.org site is prone to have errors because the same numbers may have been used twice, but once on the bottom bracket and then again on the drop out. The Angelfire site has you first determine where the stamp is located then proceeds.  

Going back. In April of 1958, a different format was adopted. The serial code started with a letter A,B,C, (etc except for I) which indicated the month. The the next number indicated the year, 8 for 1958, 9 for 1959, etc. until the new system was used in 1965 as stated above.  So D8xxxxx became April of 1958. D9xxxxx would be April of 1959.  M9xxxxx would have been December of 1959. G1xxxxx would be July 1961.  Pretty simple once you know the key.


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## spleeft

Rivnut said:


> Same bike, same parts.  Lots of aluminum foil and elbow grease.  Repaint and new decal set. Correct seat.  This is the first one that I did.  There are a bunch of others since.
> 
> View attachment 1314790
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> View attachment 1314789
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> View attachment 1314788
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> View attachment 1314787



Riv, DId you use Coppertone or Red paint ? The original looks coppertone like mine. Either way , killer restore bro !!!!!


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## Rivnut

When I pulled the fork, it was red.  Thanks for the comments.  I think on this one I used Duplicolor Metalcast Red without the silver base.  As  with most red Schwinn bikes that have a lot of exposure to the sun, the red tint fades away because of the UV light but the gold in the formula stays.  For whatever reason, and I read it once, red is affected by UV but gold isn't.  So if the original formula had both red and gold in it, the red will fade away and the gold will remain.   In the picture of the entire bike, you can see red on the bottom of the frame and on the inside of the fork.


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## 1817cent

Nice work and nice bikes!  Go Steelers!!


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

Your bike is coppertone not red


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

Sorry I misread your question to Rivnut


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## spleeft

Rivnut said:


> When I pulled the fork, it was red.  Thanks for the comments.  I think on this one I used Duplicolor Metalcast Red without the silver base.  As  with most red Schwinn bikes that have a lot of exposure to the sun, the red tint fades away because of the UV light but the gold in the formula stays.  For whatever reason, and I read it once, red is affected by UV but gold isn't.  So if the original formula had both red and gold in it, the red will fade away and the gold will remain.   In the picture of the entire bike, you can see red on the bottom of the frame and on the inside of the fork.
> View attachment 1315943



Ya I see that red now ! thnx for the great info, Not sure Ill repaint mine yet........


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## spleeft

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Your bike is coppertone not red



I love the Coppertone color...I watched a few vids and think I might try some products to just clean up the paint / , maybe bring out the white logo / fork stars , maybe paint the chain guard and add Typhoon sticker / get the chrome shining ( use Rivs tin foil method )....
 But first Im going to pull that 2 speed yellow band apart and service it. Id like to clean it up and repaint the yellow bands. Is there a specific yellow you know of or just try and match?


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## Rivnut

Just get close. You can't put two close enough together to tell that theyre not the same.  The color police are just a myth.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

Exactly , 3 stipe yellow band speaks for itself.


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## Rivnut

@spleeft Are you ready to remove all of the spokes in order to clean the hub and rims really well?  Might as well dive into the deep end and learn how to "lace" a wheel.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

If I want to build from scratch how do I figure out spoke length ? Is there a formula?


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## spleeft

Rivnut said:


> @spleeft Are you ready to remove all of the spokes in order to clean the hub and rims really well?  Might as well dive into the deep end and learn how to "lace" a wheel.



I am, actually looking at wheel lacing searches now. Im also going back and forth with a few guys over in the buy/sell forum to obtain an original S7 front wheel ( to replace the ARAYA wheel on there now ) , and a bare rim to  re-lace the rear wheel.... just need to source some spokes/ figure out length / etc.. Also probably getting the tires ( from the 3 sets at a time guy ).


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## bloo

So you are going to put S7s back on it? That is how Schwinn built it. It limits your tire choices, but those new "small brick" tires for S7 are really nice tires.

The spokes for an 26" S7 on a Bendix 2 speed rear hub are 10-5/16" or maybe a teeny bit longer, when laced in a cross 3 pattern, as many S7 bikes were.

The measurements from the spokes on my 61 Speedster are in the following thread. It has 26" S7 rims, a "Schwinn approved" front hub, and a Bendix 2 speed hub. Both wheels are laced cross 3. My hub has 3 red stripes instead of yellow, but that doesn't matter when choosing spokes. The differences between red and yellow striped 2-speed hubs are all internal.









						Found - I need some Schwinn s7 spokes | Wanted: Bikes, Trikes, Parts, Accessories, Etc.
					

Wanted: Spokes. They are double-butted and measure about .062 in the middle and .080 on the ends. 14-16 gauge I guess?  Need 10 for 26" S7 front rim with "Schwinn Approved" front hub. Cross 3 pattern. They measure 10-11/16"  Need 3 for  26" S7  rear rim with Bendix Red Triple Band kickback...




					thecabe.com
				




There are calculators for spoke length online. You need to take a bunch of measurements from the hub and rim to do it that way.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

Other wise do I set my rim and hub in a jig and measure?


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## bloo

There are a whole bunch of things you have to measure and know. Like the diameter inside the rim where the spoke nipple heads sit, whether the holes are in a line or offset, how far they are offset, the diameter of the circle of holes in the hub (both sides if they are different), how thick the flanges are, how far from the center of the hub the flanges are, both sides (not all hubs are symmetrical, freewheel hubs for instance usually have one flange out further than the other one). 

That's just so you can use the calculator. It probably still wouldn't work on something with unevenly spaced holes, like a Krate/Atom front wheel.

I have not seen a jig. I think you just have to do it all with straightedges, calipers, etc. 

People with new hubs and rims look up these numbers in a database. I have not seen such a database for antique stuff. 

If there is an easy way (other than just measuring the old spokes) I would like to hear about it.


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## spleeft

bloo said:


> So you are going to put S7s back on it? That is how Schwinn built it. It limits your tire choices, but those new "small brick" tires for S7 are really nice tires.
> 
> The spokes for an 26" S7 on a Bendix 2 speed rear hub are 10-5/16" or maybe a teeny bit longer, when laced in a cross 3 pattern, as many S7 bikes were.
> 
> The measurements from the spokes on my 61 Speedster are in the following thread. It has 26" S7 rims, a "Schwinn approved" front hub, and a Bendix 2 speed hub. Both wheels are laced cross 3. My hub has 3 red stripes instead of yellow, but that doesn't matter when choosing spokes. The differences between red and yellow striped 2-speed hubs are all internal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Found - I need some Schwinn s7 spokes | Wanted: Bikes, Trikes, Parts, Accessories, Etc.
> 
> 
> Wanted: Spokes. They are double-butted and measure about .062 in the middle and .080 on the ends. 14-16 gauge I guess?  Need 10 for 26" S7 front rim with "Schwinn Approved" front hub. Cross 3 pattern. They measure 10-11/16"  Need 3 for  26" S7  rear rim with Bendix Red Triple Band kickback...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thecabe.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are calculators for spoke length online. You need to take a bunch of measurements from the hub and rim to do it that way.



Yes was planning on going for as much OEM as possible for my first try at this and since Ill have three sets of tires. I read your thread, nice that it worked out ! If I find a nice shiny rim, would be best to try and find all new shiny spokes or just use the original? How difficult would new spoke be to find? Thanks for the great info !


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## bloo

Most bike shops have stainless spokes these days. It depends on how picky you want to be on "correct"

Example 1: On those original spokes in my thread (I only replaced the bad ones), they are double-butted. On the ones I bought as replacements the butts are a little bit longer, probably a different brand of vintage spoke. It's not noticeable because there are only a few.

Example 2: My local bike shop, like many (if not all) of them these days, can cut spokes to length and thread them, and that is how they do it. Double butted spokes are common now, but there is a catch. The new double-butted spokes have really long really tapered butts, and once laced you can't even tell by looking that they are double butted. So, that is going to look different than an original Schwinn wheel. My local shop only keeps Stainless spokes in stock, in either silver or black double butted, or silver straight spokes. No more plated steel. On the upside, they will stay shiny much better than old galvanized or cad-plated steel spokes would.

Example 3: If you relace only one wheel, bright stainless will stick out like a sore thumb, unless the other wheel has really nice shiny spokes.


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## Rivnut

Check some more threads re: spoke length.  I've re-laced five or six S-7 rims using a three cross pattern and each time I've used 10-5/8" (269mm) spokes on both the front and the back. I have one four cross rim and it uses 10-15/16" spokes. I'm enough to unlace it and re-lace it with a three cross pattern (It has 10 odd replacement spokes that stick out like a sore thumb, and I cannot find 10 used spokes to math the other 26.) There are a couple of good videos on YouTube to help you.  Except that in those videos the hole next to the valve stem hole is on the opposite side of the rim.  I found the easiest thing to was to have an already correctly laced rim sitting next to you as you start lacing yours, and just copy it.  Once you get it laced properly, then you can learn how to true it.


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## bloo

Rivnut said:


> I've re-laced five or six S-7 rims using a three cross pattern and each time I've used 10-5/8" (269mm) spokes on both the front and the back.




Did you have to cut or grind them off? It is hard to imagine how you could stuff another 5/16" in there. There has to be some detail one or both of us is missing.


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## Rivnut

The 10-5/8" spokes are 1/16" longer than the prescribed 10-9/16" spokes and I think that that 1/16" difference disappers inside the nipple.  The 10-5/8" spoke comes right up to the head of the nipple leaving little to no room for a screwdriver so you're left to finish with a spoke wrench.

Here's a copy and paste from another search of this forum, it's dated 12/16/2016.

BIG DIFF IF SPOKING 26 INCH RIMS WITH 3 CROSSOVER OR 4 CROSS OVER!
CORRECT CROSS OVER 4 FOR 10 5/8 IN S-2 FOR 26 INCH RIMS.
CROSS OVER 3 AND THE SPOKES WILL BE TOO LONG.

CORRECT CROSS OVER 3 FOR 10 5/8 IN S-7 FOR 26 INCH RIMS .
CROSS OVER 4 AND THE SPOKES WILL BE TOO SHORT.

THE DIAMETER OF THE HUB FLANGES WILL NOT REQUIRE CHANGE IN SPOKE LENGTH.


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## bloo

That chart shows 10-5/16" for an s7 middleweight with a 2 or 3 speed hub, and that is exactly what I found in my original Schwinn 2-speed rear wheel. 

My front wheel did not agree with the chart, having 10-11/16,instead of 10-9/16. 

I don't know where 10-5/8 for everything came from. The spokes really should come into the nipple heads, shouldn't they?. Otherwise, it's just the brass of hollow nipples holding your wheel together.


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## Rivnut

The 10-5/8 goes all the way into the nipple, it's 1/16" longer than Schwinn specifies in the chart. I made a WAG on the missing 1.5mm. All I know is that my wheels with the 10-5/8" spokes work fine.


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## MEKANIXFIX

spleeft said:


> I love the Coppertone color...I watched a few vids and think I might try some products to just clean up the paint / , maybe bring out the white logo / fork stars , maybe paint the chain guard and add Typhoon sticker / get the chrome shining ( use Rivs tin foil method )....
> But first Im going to pull that 2 speed yellow band apart and service it. Id like to clean it up and repaint the yellow bands. Is there a specific yellow you know of or just try and match?



Hello stay safe! If do you decide to disassemble the yellow band,prepare clean towel over the table! The tools need it grease/oil to lubricate also books or video! How to perform the process! Be careful some are loose! Keep tracking of the all ready parts removed to make the rebuild the yellow hub(please don't brake or lose parts and try to use another colors red/blue\ green hubs! For the spokes take the measures when remove all. Take the length! Good luck dont rush the internal gears! Good luck my book is here for references!


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## spleeft

MEKANIXFIX said:


> Hello stay safe! If do you decide to disassemble the yellow band,prepare clean towel over the table! The tools need it grease/oil to lubricate also books or video! How to perform the process! Be careful some are loose! Keep tracking of the all ready parts removed to make the rebuild the yellow hub(please don't brake or lose parts and try to use another colors red/blue\ green hubs! For the spokes take the measures when remove all. Take the length! Good luck dont rush the internal gears! Good luck my book is here for references!



Thnx Mek' ! 
 Ive downloaded the Schwinn Manual directions and the one found on Shelby page, where is your book? Also, what type of grease or lube to use for reassembly. I have all the greases used for modern mountain bikes.


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## MEKANIXFIX

Hi stay safe w the project! My book I bought time a long time!
Tha info in my & Schwinn manuals are the same! The online videos are good for references, but 1 thing is the video another in your hands! Always Schwinn recommends
the company grease/oil for the maintenance! For Bendix automatic hubs very light grease/oil* Not HD thick fiber grease! Good luck w your project!


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## spleeft

Update:
 After riding it for a few days I've started disassembly. I have not started on the Bendix overhaul, but coming soon...I guess I'm just gonna drop the $25-30 on the lock nut tool if I'm gonna do a few of these! 
 Its amazing how most of these components are coming apart pretty easy! Someone must have took care of this bike through its life or Schwinn just build awsum stuff. Ive started buffing the chrome with foil/water and 0000 steel wool...experimenting to see what working best. Soaking stuff in Evapo-rust too, seems to work pretty good on the forks, haven't tried polish on the paint yet. Looking at the color of the paint under the badge and unexposed paint on the forks  , the coppertone paintjob must have looked awsum on the whole bike when it was brand new ! 
 Ive made my first big mistake, hoping I can buff out the scratches I put in the chain ring when I first got the bike and didnt know I could scratch it like that with the drill brush..... live and learn !!


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

I might have a better chainring if you want me to look?


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## spleeft

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> I might have a better chainring if you want me to look?



Sure, thanks


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## MEKANIXFIX

Hola stay safe! Yes that color & others flamboyant from Schwinn looks nice when the sun touch them*! Keeps the good work*!


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## spleeft

Headset Bearings are falling out of retainer...... Ive read I can repack without retainers by adding extra balls, and that 5/32 is the size I need..... but when I measure the originals, I get 3/16....close enough????


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

You can put them back in to cage if real loose you can give a little squeeze with needle nose. The grease should hold them in as well. I believe you can add extra bearings as well but I have never done that. All the schwinns used that same head set and bearing


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## Rivnut

Change your digital read out to fractions. Did you convert 4.77mm to a fraction? There are only 3 H's in closeness. Hugs, horseshoes, and hand grenades. You're not dealing with any of the three. If 5/32" is called for, that's what you need.  A little pressure on the retainer between the balls will keep them in place.


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## spleeft

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> You can put them back in to cage if real loose you can give a little squeeze with needle nose. The grease should hold them in as well. I believe you can add extra bearings as well but I have never done that. All the schwinns used that same head set and bearing



They are actually missing, so can I use the 5/32 I m reading about?


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## spleeft

Rivnut said:


> Change your digital read out to fractions. Did you convert 4.77mm to a fraction? There are only 3 H's in closeness. Hugs, horseshoes, and hand grenades. You're not dealing with any of the three. If 5/32" is called for, that's what you need.  A little pressure on the retainer between the balls will keep them in place.



I did use the fraction read out , the ball bearings are def 3/16.    4.7625mm = 3/16" according to the web. So if all the literature is saying to use 5/32, why ar ethe ones I took out of this headset 3/16? 
 Sorry for the noob questions and thnx for all the help / replies !!


----------



## Rivnut

Steel ball bearings in bulk are cheap. Like $5 - $6 / 100.  50+ year old bearings might not be perfect. I've replaced many that I've found flat spots on.  I've also found out that the easiest way to measure a ball bearing is to use a cheap drill bit gauge. Start small and go big. The first hole the ball goes into is what you need. You probably need one anyway.


----------



## Rivnut

spleeft said:


> I did use the fraction read out , the ball bearings are def 3/16.    4.7625mm = 3/16" according to the web. So if all the literature is saying to use 5/32, why ar ethe ones I took out of this headset 3/16?
> Sorry for the noob questions and thnx for all the help / replies !!



What literature were you using? I found sites that called for both but I think the 5/32" retained may have been for use in a lightweight bike.  If you're confident with the 3/16" balls then that's the way to go.  How many balls? 15 or 17?  Retainers with 3/16" balls need 15; retainers with 5/16" balls use 17.


----------



## spleeft

Rivnut said:


> What literature were you using?



By literature, I mean forum post results from searches and google search results. I scrolled through the entire Schwinn manual I didnt see anything on headset bearings .  Looking the Sheldon Brown he says that 5/32 and 3/16 are used so I think I need to order some 3/16  and either reuse the retainers or go with the loose install. Great tip on the drill bit gauge ! thnx


----------



## GTs58

Schwinn had at least three different head sets that have different size ball bearings. The tandem head set takes 3/16" balls. The Deluxe head set takes 5/32 balls and the standard set, one with top and bottom cups, takes the 3/16 balls I believe. I personally would use a retainer on the head set, at least at the bottom so it's not a pain for someone that pulls the fork out.


----------



## MEKANIXFIX

Hi for those bearings you can apply little pressure w needle pliers and new grease to reuse them! The loose ball bearings are use in the lightweight models, if you use only loose balls can damage the inside cups! The bike shops sell replacement bearings, so you can buy and use the missing ones w the original Schwinn cage*! Good luck


----------



## spleeft

Rivnut said:


> What literature were you using? I found sites that called for both but I think the 5/32" retained may have been for use in a lightweight bike.  If you're confident with the 3/16" balls then that's the way to go.  How many balls? 15 or 17?  Retainers with 3/16" balls need 15; retainers with 5/16" balls use 17.



15 balls... thnx again!


----------



## coasterbrakejunkie1969

The couple members helping out really know a ton they are good to follow. I have been helped out a bunch on this site. A lot to learn and this is the place to do it.


----------



## Hammerhead

spleeft said:


> Thanks for the reply, HH  could you restate this?



So the wheel sits further back in the dropouts. Sorry for late reply. But I see it already sits far back. With the S-7 wheels.


----------



## bloo

spleeft said:


> Headset Bearings are falling out of retainer...... Ive read I can repack without retainers by adding extra balls, and that 5/32 is the size I need..... but when I measure the originals, I get 3/16....close enough????
> View attachment 1319241
> View attachment 1319242




Yes, you can convert a retainer bearing to loose balls by adding more bearings. I don't know where you read it, but I believe Sheldon Brown championed the idea online. Headsets are an extra-special PITA though, and I don't believe even Sheldon recommended doing that to a headset except in cases where the races had become dented at an even spacing where the bearings sat. Even then, in my opinion it would be better to just replace the bad parts. It's not like this is a low-production imported bike. Parts are available for postwar Chicago Schwinns, and easy.

From the picture you posted earlier your headset is the "standard" Schwinn headset. Ignoring prewar stuff because it doesn't apply here, a standard headset takes Schwinn "VSF" bearings, both top and bottom. The VSF bearing cage has a very uncharacteristic flat appearance.

A Schwinn "deluxe" headset takes a different bearing cage in the top only, with smaller balls, and more normal looking. That probably accounts for some of the contradictory information about the ball size.

Here is a picture from Ebay of some VSF bearing cages:






I don't have a VSF bearing out of a bike to measure, but I believe there are 15 balls in a VSF retainer, 3/16 in diameter. That jives with the 4.77mm you measured.

I wouldn't buy new cages. Loose balls are cheap. Pop new ones in your retainers. If the cage is flat, not bent, the new ones will probably stay in and if not, flatten the cage or bend the tabs ever so slightly as necessary. If you replace any balls in a retainer, replace all of them.

Get grade 25 balls, and they will be several grades better than you will find in replacement cages. I have bought this assortment of 500 a couple of times. Its a little under 10 bucks and has a bunch of common bicycle sizes:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018B7D05K/

Less than half the cost of a couple of VSF cages, and better. Also the sizes cover almost everything else in a Chicago Schwinn except the crank. If you want to stuff those, you will also need some 5/16" balls:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015RM7XKK/

.


----------



## gkeep

spleeft said:


> Update:
> After riding it for a few days I've started disassembly. I have not started on the Bendix overhaul, but coming soon...I guess I'm just gonna drop the $25-30 on the lock nut tool if I'm gonna do a few of these!
> Its amazing how most of these components are coming apart pretty easy! Someone must have took care of this bike through its life or Schwinn just build awsum stuff. Ive started buffing the chrome with foil/water and 0000 steel wool...experimenting to see what working best. Soaking stuff in Evapo-rust too, seems to work pretty good on the forks, haven't tried polish on the paint yet. Looking at the color of the paint under the badge and unexposed paint on the forks  , the coppertone paintjob must have looked awsum on the whole bike when it was brand new !
> Ive made my first big mistake, hoping I can buff out the scratches I put in the chain ring when I first got the bike and didnt know I could scratch it like that with the drill brush..... live and learn !!
> View attachment 1319156
> View attachment 1319157
> View attachment 1319159
> View attachment 1319161
> View attachment 1319165
> View attachment 1319167



I've also learned the hard way about being careful with chrome parts. Instead of steel wool use bronze wool and brass brushes. Combined with vinegar, Simple Green or chrome polish you'll get nice shiny chrome sans scratches. That copper tone paint is going to clean up nice with some cleaner wax and a topcoat of carnauba, it'll glow!


----------



## bloo

Live and learn. The good news is that "clover' chainring is super common and Schwinn used it for decades. If it doesn't shine up, you can probably find another for not much money. I recall someone on here posting a picture of a stack of about 30 of them but I don't remember who.


----------



## spleeft

gkeep said:


> I've also learned the hard way about being careful with chrome parts. Instead of steel wool use bronze wool and brass brushes. Combined with vinegar, Simple Green or chrome polish you'll get nice shiny chrome sans scratches. That copper tone paint is going to clean up nice with some cleaner wax and a topcoat of carnauba, it'll glow!



Finally will have a few days off work to get to it ! Thanks for the tips !


----------



## spleeft

bloo said:


> Live and learn. The good news is that "clover' chainring is super common and Schwinn used it for decades. If it doesn't shine up, you can probably find another for not much money. I recall someone on here posting a picture of a stack of about 30 of them but I don't remember who.



I searched and found a few but have not purchased anything, I will prolly try and buff this one out for practice and look for / purchase a nice shiny one.


----------



## coasterbrakejunkie1969

The parts you will need for that bike always available. I do like to have it  all nice when I assemble  but nothing is that difficult to swap out afterwards.


----------



## Goldenrod

Welcome.  The most important ingredient for this hobby is money and your first purchase will make a perfect get-a-way vehicle for your first bank robbery. You have a mask already but you will need a note and then a Moll.  This is a female babe, over 18 and no nudity but put her on that bike for a picture.  She rides on the back of the bike and throws tacks.  If she is like my moll, and can't keep her clothes on, there is a feature called a P.M..  It is for sending pictures of her to me and maybe Boris.   Females are the ones with two bumps in front.  These little cone shaped objects are a major distraction for many of us and a diversion from grease and rust or two major drugs of choice.


----------



## coasterbrakejunkie1969

Sounds like somebody is snowed in, "quick girly pics stat'


----------



## spleeft

Goldenrod said:


> Welcome.  The most important ingredient for this hobby is money and your first purchase will make a perfect get-a-way vehicle for your first bank robbery. You have a mask already but you will need a note and then a Moll.  This is a female babe, over 18 and no nudity but put her on that bike for a picture.  She rides on the back of the bike and throws tacks.  If she is like my moll, and can't keep her clothes on, there is a feature called a P.M..  It is for sending pictures of her to me and maybe Boris.   Females are the ones with two bumps in front.  These little cone shaped objects are a major distraction for many of us and a diversion from grease and rust or two major drugs of choice.



Got it, thnx.


----------



## spleeft

Elbow grease check........ I've used water / tin foil for a few hours and cant seem to get any further with these black spots.  Is it possible to buff/steel wool/foil this to shine??


----------



## spleeft

I just removed a spoke from the rear wheel. S7 w/ Bendix Yellow band on a 1968 Typhoon..........measured with a Park spoke gauge   





bloo said:


> Most bike shops have stainless spokes these days. It depends on how picky you want to be on "correct"
> 
> Example 1: On those original spokes in my thread (I only replaced the bad ones), they are double-butted. On the ones I bought as replacements the butts are a little bit longer, probably a different brand of vintage spoke. It's not noticeable because there are only a few.
> 
> Example 2: My local bike shop, like many (if not all) of them these days, can cut spokes to length and thread them, and that is how they do it. Double butted spokes are common now, but there is a catch. The new double-butted spokes have really long really tapered butts, and once laced you can't even tell by looking that they are double butted. So, that is going to look different than an original Schwinn wheel. My local shop only keeps Stainless spokes in stock, in either silver or black double butted, or silver straight spokes. No more plated steel. On the upside, they will stay shiny much better than old galvanized or cad-plated steel spokes would.
> 
> Example 3: If you relace only one wheel, bright stainless will stick out like a sore thumb, unless the other wheel has really nice shiny spokes.





bloo said:


> So you are going to put S7s back on it? That is how Schwinn built it. It limits your tire choices, but those new "small brick" tires for S7 are really nice tires.
> 
> The spokes for an 26" S7 on a Bendix 2 speed rear hub are 10-5/16" or maybe a teeny bit longer, when laced in a cross 3 pattern, as many S7 bikes were.
> 
> The measurements from the spokes on my 61 Speedster are in the following thread. It has 26" S7 rims, a "Schwinn approved" front hub, and a Bendix 2 speed hub. Both wheels are laced cross 3. My hub has 3 red stripes instead of yellow, but that doesn't matter when choosing spokes. The differences between red and yellow striped 2-speed hubs are all internal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Found - I need some Schwinn s7 spokes | Wanted: Bikes, Trikes, Parts, Accessories, Etc.
> 
> 
> Wanted: Spokes. They are double-butted and measure about .062 in the middle and .080 on the ends. 14-16 gauge I guess?  Need 10 for 26" S7 front rim with "Schwinn Approved" front hub. Cross 3 pattern. They measure 10-11/16"  Need 3 for  26" S7  rear rim with Bendix Red Triple Band kickback...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thecabe.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are calculators for spoke length online. You need to take a bunch of measurements from the hub and rim to do it that way.





Rivnut said:


> Check some more threads re: spoke length.  I've re-laced five or six S-7 rims using a three cross pattern and each time I've used 10-5/8" (269mm) spokes on both the front and the back. I have one four cross rim and it uses 10-15/16" spokes. I'm enough to unlace it and re-lace it with a three cross pattern (It has 10 odd replacement spokes that stick out like a sore thumb, and I cannot find 10 used spokes to math the other 26.) There are a couple of good videos on YouTube to help you.  Except that in those videos the hole next to the valve stem hole is on the opposite side of the rim.  I found the easiest thing to was to have an already correctly laced rim sitting next to you as you start lacing yours, and just copy it.  Once you get it laced properly, then you can learn how to true it.


----------



## GTs58

That spoke you are measuring is most likely a replacement spoke and shorter than the factory spokes. Here's a replacement spoke chart, the spokes are shorter for easier install for a replacement. Hope ya can read it. 10 5/16" for a replacement spoke on an S-7.


----------



## bloo

GTs58 said:


> That spoke you are measuring is most likely a replacement spoke and shorter than the factory spokes. Here's a replacement spoke chart, the spokes are shorter for easier install for a replacement. Hope ya can read it. 10 5/16" for a replacement spoke on an S-7.




It also appears to be a straight spoke. Was Schwinn using those in 68?


----------



## GTs58

bloo said:


> It also appears to be a straight spoke. Was Schwinn using those in 68?



They sure might have. I don't dabble with Schwinns that new so I can't say if they did from examples. Years ago I tried to put a rear fender from a 1961 middle weight on a 1957 middle weight and found out it didn't fit. Come to find out later Schwinn changed the Cantilever frame geometry starting with the 1959 models. I haven't come across a metric front axle either but it could have happened at some point on some hubs.


----------



## spleeft

Recap: I have a Bendix yellow band on a pretty rusty 26" rim and some of the spokes are rusty. I have a nicer S7 26" rim on the way to lace the YB Bedinx too.
I pulled a few more spokes off of my wheel and they are all definitely 10 1/4" straight or 260.35mm. Can I just buy any 260 mm spokes , straight or butted, and use them to lace up to another S7 rim? 260mm spokes seem to be pretty common.
Thanks for all of the replies and insight !!


----------



## bloo

If you took apart a solid wheel I don't see any reason why not. Get the same gauge so they will fit the hub holes. If you get straight ones, they just wont get smaller in the center. I think these are 14 gauge if I remember correctly.

Note whether it is cross 3 or cross 4 (and don't miss the first cross when you count, its in there tight right down by the elbow). 

For best strength the spokes should really get into the nipple head, but if you get them too long you will wind up grinding them all off when you make a wheel. If they are REALLY the perfect size, you might have to grind 2 or 3 spokes but most will get just into the head and fit right. Pay attention to the wheel you are taking apart and it will give you some idea.


----------



## GTs58

Are the kickback 2 speed hubs any larger at the flange than the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hubs? Or is that wheel 2 cross, kinda looks like it in that one picture?


----------



## bloo

2 cross?! Where did you see that?


----------



## Rivnut

I've replaced a few S7 wheels, all three lace with 10-5/8" spokes but they've all been Bensix RB coaster brakes using a 3 cross pattern. I do have one S7 front whhel that uses 11" spokes for a 4 cross lace.  The balloon wheels that I've laced use the same 10-1/4" spokes as your yellow band S7.

@spleeft New question. Why not use the nice coaster brake wheel from the one bike you picked up?


----------



## GTs58

bloo said:


> 2 cross?! Where did you see that?




Never seen a 2 cross before, but ------------------------------->


----------



## spleeft

Rivnut said:


> @spleeft New question. Why not use the nice coaster brake wheel from the one bike you picked up?



Great question, The wifey likes that bike for her to ride around at the beach / camping. I really like the yellow band 2 speed. Although the interest in creating a total klunker / modified cruiser out of different old bike parts in me is growing ,I think I want to keep everything as close to original for now. I also really want to start building / lacing wheels.


----------



## spleeft

Update: 
 I used the shop towel soaked in Evaporust method on the frame with mixed results. ( I also used it on the rest of the parts with great results ! ) I'm starting to see where the pantina look might be preferred in certain situations . The Evaporust treatment did not effect the paint except where there was rust _under_ the paint mainly on the head tube. I wrapped the frame with towels soaked in Evaporust then wrapped with Saran wrap and then put the whole frame in an industrial garbage bag in an effort to prevent the towels drying out over night. That worked great however most of the moister gravitated to the head tube. I should have laid it on its side maybe ?? And I dont know if that caused the paint removal on the headtube. 
The last two pics are before and after shots. After rinsing and drying the frame I used Meguiar's M2 Mirror Glaze Fine -Cut Cleaner as directed.
  Question is where do I go from here ...Linseed oil??


----------



## bloo

Trying to do Evaporust without submerging the parts doesn't go that well. I have sucessfully done it on auto parts with massive amounts of babysitiing, but it seems the only part that works well is at the bottom, no matter how wet you keep it. 

Evaporust when you can submerge the parts, on the other hand, is miraculous.

Also look into oxalic acid.....


----------



## GTs58

I'm leery soaking any painted part in something for any length of time. That old paint is very porous, and the candy colors more so.  

Opps!!!!


----------



## spleeft

Thanks for the replies, what do you'all think would be the best thing to do to the frame from here, Wax, Linseed oil?


----------



## Gordon

If you want to try and restore some of the luster, try polishing compound. Avoid the decals and follow up with wax.


----------



## spleeft

Thnx for the reply, G,
After rinsing and drying the frame I used Meguiar's M2 Mirror Glaze Fine -Cut Cleaner as directed, think I should do another round? An you recommend wax over the Linseed oil?


----------



## coasterbrakejunkie1969

Wax


----------



## coasterbrakejunkie1969

Wax , in my opinion


----------



## GTs58

Definitely wax on that one.


----------



## spleeft

Lonestar said:


> Cool bike! If it were me, I'd get some chrome BMX forks, Old School BMX stem & some wide BMX cruiser bars. Perfect surf bike!



The more I stare  at this bike I like this idea ! Ive browsed many diff brands and web sites with a variety of prices . Being this is my first venture, can you suggest any specific parts? thnx


----------



## spleeft

Ive taken the dive into the Yellow Band Bendix re build with a few different references to go by. Few pics .........


----------



## coasterbrakejunkie1969

Thank you ,keep the pictures coming , I have a yellow band that needs service, very helpful


----------



## Lonestar

spleeft said:


> The more I stare  at this bike I like this idea ! Ive browsed many diff brands and web sites with a variety of prices . Being this is my first venture, can you suggest any specific parts? thnx



How about some chrome 80's Sidewinder forks or old school Tange forks, some wide crossbar handlebars...like some S&M Husky High MX bars.


----------



## bloo

spleeft said:


> Ive taken the dive into the Yellow Band Bendix re build with a few different references to go by. Few pics .........




Does everything come off of the axle and if so, can you tell if there is anything special about it?

When rebuilding my triple red band, I noticed that it takes the same axle(s) as a Bendix single band one-speed coaster brake. That is a super common size and thread that fits a bunch of different coaster brakes. Mine had stripped threads. I replaced it with a cro-mo BMX part.

The axle for the yellow band and blue band hubs had a different part number that did not seem to cross to any single speed hubs. Just looking at your pics, it seems like an ordinary Bendix etc. axle might fit.


----------



## spleeft

bloo said:


> Does everything come off of the axle and if so, can you tell if there is anything special about it?
> 
> When rebuilding my triple red band, I noticed that it takes the same axle(s) as a Bendix single band one-speed coaster brake. That is a super common size and thread that fits a bunch of different coaster brakes. Mine had stripped threads. I replaced it with a cro-mo BMX part.
> 
> The axle for the yellow band and blue band hubs had a different part number that did not seem to cross to any single speed hubs. Just looking at your pics, it seems like an ordinary Bendix etc. axle might fit.



I will be working on it on Monday and will measure / post pics of the axle. Lemme know if you want any specifics, at this point in my Schwinn career I wouldn't know if its the same/diff from those other axles but we will find out !!


----------



## spleeft

Yellow band done ! Please critique, thanks ! 
 I used the Schwinn Manual , the Sheldon Brown Bendix guide ,  this cool article , and this video series for reference.
  Feels like I used too much grease but figured I can always partially disassemble and remove a little if needed. Pre loading bearings on these old bike is different than my mountainbikes so Ill just have to see when I put it on the bike, but it spins freely if I leave a little play in the axle and switches gears smoothly.
 I wiped away as much old grease as I could then brushed / picked old grease off all parts in diluted Simple Green concentrate, after rinsing in water I dried them , used a little alchohol ,and wiped them down before painting on new grease, ( what do you'll do ? ) .  I used Phil Wood on everything and ProGold EPX Cycle Grease ( Hi temp ) on the brake shoes,( What grease do you'all use)?.  Over all very satisfying few hours at the workbench, thinking about who did this to this hub the last time and when ? !!
  What type of paint should I use to freshen up the Yellow Bands ( last pick ) ??




Snapping the bearing retainer off and more so _on _the Anchor End Expander was difficult but using the Arm Side Dust Cap like the manual said was what got it done.






There was a retainer that I wasnt expecting that I could have damaged while removing the Indexing Spring from the 18 tooth High Speed Drive Assembley . There was so much grease I didnt see it and its not on any guides. Maybe I could have removed it safely..let me know  ??  



I finally took the advice of the manual  where it says " Only perform this step if there is significant wear or damage" and did not remove the Planet gears  / pins !! I tried but it was taking a really good wack....so I said F it !! They looked really good and spun freely after cleaning anyway......










The 11 1/4" loose ball bearings that go in the High / Low speed driving screws looked good but I replaced them anyway.













Interesting these Driving Clutches have a spiral pattern instead of gnarling ( is that the correct word??!! ) like the manuals .















Gordon sold/sent me a sweet rim that cleaned up really well that I want to lace this YB to ( Thanks G !! ) . I was thinking black spokes?? .....thats another post ha ha !


----------



## spleeft

bloo said:


> Does everything come off of the axle and if so, can you tell if there is anything special about it?
> 
> When rebuilding my triple red band, I noticed that it takes the same axle(s) as a Bendix single band one-speed coaster brake. That is a super common size and thread that fits a bunch of different coaster brakes. Mine had stripped threads. I replaced it with a cro-mo BMX part.
> 
> The axle for the yellow band and blue band hubs had a different part number that did not seem to cross to any single speed hubs. Just looking at your pics, it seems like an ordinary Bendix etc. axle might fit.



Looks pretty normal / common.......


----------



## Gordon

I would think some Testors yellow paint from a hobby shop would work to redo the hub bands.


----------



## bloo

Looks good! I've not used the Phil grease, but everybody seems to like it, you probably can't go wrong. I've been using Redline CV-2 grease lately. I've not tried it on brake shoes, only bearings. My 2-speeder is a red band, and has a stack of discs (like a New Departure) instead of the shoes. It wants oil on the discs and so thats what it got. I would not take the planet gears out of the carrier unless there was some problem with them, just clean really well and re-lubricate. Thanks for posting the axle pics.


----------



## coasterbrakejunkie1969

Is it ok to use the grease on planetary gears? Do they require just oil?


bloo said:


> Looks good! I've not used the Phil grease, but everybody seems to like it, you probably can't go wrong. I've been using Redline CV-2 grease lately. I've not tried it on brake shoes, only bearings. My 2-speeder is a red band, and has a stack of discs (like a New Departure) instead of the shoes. It wants oil on the discs and so thats what it got. I would not take the planet gears out of the carrier unless there was some problem with them, just clean really well and re-lubricate. Thanks for posting the axle pics.


----------



## spleeft

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Is it ok to use the grease on planetary gears? Do they require just oil?



Thats a good point.... I don't know ! that's why I posted all these pics Ha ha!! Trying to learn.
 Now that you mention , My Industry Nine mountain bike  hubs only take Dumond Freehub oil specifically. I should probably figure this out before I start riding it !


----------



## bloo

Grease on the planetaries says the manual. Oil on some other things. Yellow band Manual here:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/schwinn-service-manual-volume-1.81415/post-507633

Links for whole book: Note that each link has multiple pages.
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/schwinn-service-manual-volume-1.81415/
https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/schwinn-service-manual-volume-2.81579/

.


----------



## spleeft

bloo said:


> Grease on the planetaries says the manual. Oil on some other things. Yellow band Manual here:
> 
> https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/schwinn-service-manual-volume-1.81415/post-507633
> 
> Links for whole book: Note that each link has multiple pages.
> https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/schwinn-service-manual-volume-1.81415/
> https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/schwinn-service-manual-volume-2.81579/
> 
> .



I studied and went over those manuals like crazy. How I overlook that little paragraph I have no idea !!!


----------



## spleeft

spleeft said:


> I studied and went over those manuals like crazy. How I overlook that little paragraph I have no idea !!!



Well here's why I used grease on everything, I think the Schwinn manual suggests oil on clutch assemblies and what not.  From the Sheldon site...Sutherlands Manual. So which is it ?? Are we splitting hairs here??


----------



## bloo

spleeft said:


> Are we splitting hairs here??




Yes.


----------



## Rivnut

grease is the word - Google Search


----------



## spleeft

I had to throw her together just to test out the YellowBand rebuild, Works great ! Its still has that low speed purrrr, just a little softer, guess thats just how this one is. Still going to lace the rear to a much nicer rim supplied by Gordon ( thanks G ! ) Might use black spokes...thoughts?? If I do that , guess Ill do the front also with black spokes. I just received my truing stand !  I have some Sidewinder forks ( Black ) coming and a few different handle bars, apes and BMX with a 4 bolt stem to experiment with. Definitely not finished !! Will it ever be ha ha ??!! ( PS I just picked up a nice '63 Typhoon in black that I think Ill do a original restore on , paint is nice and all the parts are there so it leaves me freed up to do some klunker experiments with this one )


----------



## coasterbrakejunkie1969

Yes my 2 speed has the purr as well in low. I think I read somewhere that is normal. A great thing about typhoon is they are a less desirable bike then some others so going to a klunker from complete bike does not evoke the wrath of some of Schwinn faithful. I think as long as you keep original parts it can always go back. You mention making a klunker out of the wrong bike and you may receive death threats haha. Looking forward to updats as I'm working on a klunker of my own. What should I look to pay for forks and 4 bolt stem?


----------



## Rusty Klunker

Nice build up of the 2 speed. The axles, the yellow band is about 3/8" longer if I remember. Why idk. 
The retainer on the sprocket, I've had a few over the years that were crushed, the little tabs were mushroomed over. How or what caused it to be compressed idk. I didnt know it was available to replace had never seen it on any break down or even bendix's parts list. It comes on the sprocket when new. But I found some at a swap meet and have the part number somewhere.
 The spiral pieces, that is an updated part that came out in 67. Before that it had the knurl. The "AB" part number is the same for both and they interchange. The one part is also used in the red band.


----------



## spleeft

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Yes my 2 speed has the purr as well in low. I think I read somewhere that is normal. A great thing about typhoon is they are a less desirable bike then some others so going to a klunker from complete bike does not evoke the wrath of some of Schwinn faithful. I think as long as you keep original parts it can always go back. You mention making a klunker out of the wrong bike and you may receive death threats haha. Looking forward to updats as I'm working on a klunker of my own. What should I look to pay for forks and 4 bolt stem?





coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> Yes my 2 speed has the purr as well in low. I think I read somewhere that is normal. A great thing about typhoon is they are a less desirable bike then some others so going to a klunker from complete bike does not evoke the wrath of some of Schwinn faithful. I think as long as you keep original parts it can always go back. You mention making a klunker out of the wrong bike and you may receive death threats haha. Looking forward to updats as I'm working on a klunker of my own. What sho



My pricing searches results were all over the place and I really dont know the differences other than you usually get what you pay for. I was charged $125 for apparently very set of Sidewinder  forks that have been freshly powder coated in black by Danny the Swchinn Freak but I have not received them yet. $30 for a 4 bolt stem , and I got some cheap used handle bars just to check out how they feel / look.


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## spleeft

Rusty Klunker said:


> Nice build up of the 2 speed. The axles, the yellow band is about 3/8" longer if I remember. Why idk.
> The retainer on the sprocket, I've had a few over the years that were crushed, the little tabs were mushroomed over. How or what caused it to be compressed idk. I didnt know it was available to replace had never seen it on any break down or even bendix's parts list. It comes on the sprocket when new. But I found some at a swap meet and have the part number somewhere.
> The spiral pieces, that is an updated part that came out in 67. Before that it had the knurl. The "AB" part number is the same for both and they interchange. The one part is also used in the red band.



Thanks, that answers all those questions!!!


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## spleeft

Latest version, testing out the ape hangers, and some customized ( very crudely by me ! ) fenders . I want to shape those fenders by cutting them, what tool do you'all recommend using / thoughts / critique ? What a blast to ride around the hood! Thanks for all the help all !


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

Really sweet job enjoy the ride, much deserved. Don't brag to much about that 2 speed the neighbors will learn about it after a couple races haha. For now just think of the low speed whirr as warning to others. I build houses so always a reciprocating saw for me and some file work ,I do not recommend this method.


spleeft said:


> What a blast to ride around the hood


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## Gordon

I would think someone who does auto body work could give you some tips on how to flare those fenders. Bike is looking good!


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## spleeft

Update:
About to re-lace the back wheel with black spokes and a newer shiny rim. ( Front going to black spokes also ) . Repainting the "Yellow Bands" has proved to be the most time consuming. First, the Testors Yellow I ordered from Amazon finally showed " undeliverable"  on my account, then the local hobby shops are all out, say that yellow has been hard to come by... not wanting to wait any longer , I went with some Rust-oleum Enamel from Tractor Supply. For some reason Ive had to clean / start over on the left band because I think I globbed it on to much too fast....It kept "bubbling a little in spots.. Why am I so obsessed with the yellow bands ?? No one will ever notice ha ha ....


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## spleeft

Update: 
My first wheel build is in the can  
 I went with the same length spokes discussed earlier in the thread ,  new black 260mm 14g and same length nipples (16mm) in sliver purchased on eBay from a guy who makes them to order on a Phil Wood machine. ( had to google that , wow what a cool machine ). The spoke threads ended up just below the screwdriver slot so I guess the length was the right choice.
  It felt good to put it all together with the totally overhauled  Yellow Band, ( including repainting the yellow bands ha ha ! ) and a "in better shape " rim. No biggie for veteran wheel builders I'm sure , but still was fun. Cant wait to do the front and see them on the bike ! Thanks for all the help!


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## SKPC

Looks great!   Nothing more satisfying than building a functional wheel.  Nice job~!!!~


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## spleeft

Banana seat option-  What size seat and sissy bar is best for these bikes? Thought I would try one out just for fun.


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## B607

Back in 1968 I had a paper route and delivered papers on my Deluxe Typhoon with yellow band 2 speed.  Grey metal flake banana seat, bars like yours with 2 "spinners" to hold the paper bag strap, and a front carrier we called a "mouse trap".  It was the perfect paper delivery bike for my neighborhood.  It was black and I sure with I had a pic of it.  Your bike...the date, the 2-speed, brings back fond memories.  Gary


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

spleeft said:


> Banana seat option-  What size seat and sissy bar is best for these bikes? Thought I would try one out just for fun.




If you buy a new after market Schwinn style they come extra long and you can cut if need be. Most of the original stingray sissy bars are long enough most of them had the seat jacked way up.


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## spleeft

coasterbrakejunkie1969 said:


> If you buy a new after market Schwinn style they come extra long and you can cut if need be. Most of the original stingray sissy bars are long enough most of them had the seat jacked way up.



Thats exactly how I like the seat, high. It makes riding so much easier/fun. Should I be looking for the 26" seats?


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

spleeft said:


> Thats exactly how I like the seat, high. It makes riding so much easier/fun. Should I be looking for the 26" seats?




The seats are called 26 inch meaning they are larger for a 26" bike. They range from 12" to roughly 18" you want to go with a 16/18 at least they don't get much bigger then 18/19. Watch out for the position of the sissy bar mounting holes some seats have the mounting holes about 4 inches forward of the back of the seat. These need to have a different sissy bar to look correct. Most of the vintage seats have the holes 2 inches or less. Here pics, of a new seat with old style schwinn sissy bar I cant sit all the way back the bar hits your back. New products are limited I have had much better luck with vintage.


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## Lamont

Great find and and a good choice for a dip in the pool .

Random lessons I wish I knew before I got hooked :

1.  First and foremost : never abrate ... that is to say , dissolve with oils or acids , but always use the least abrasive scribed or polisher that the job calls for 


2. Really chewed up schwinn coppertone paint , preserved orig  , is vastly better than you think , or what you might do as you find your way ...  my sense is the same holds for gold if that what u have .

car cleaning wax , and the very least abrasive paint polishing product and are your friends and stay away from graphics with a polish ... car wax is essential for paint  , particularly if near beach or humid climate .

3. love your schwinn stem : Never toss or attempt to switch a vintage schwinn stem , before you understand the compatibility of and unique sizes / evolution of these ...
  ( for this bike ,  I’d shoot your stem and bars , all chrome for that matter with PB blaster or a similar and shoot the stem bolt / headset from top and well as from bottom with bike inverted shooting from fork crown ) 

The stem you have can be removed soaked and polished , clear coated and reinstalled ...  the forward side will be difficult , but tooth brush and patience. 

you will be amazed and how much chrome comes back with car and wash cloth rather than over a rate with brass brush steel wool etc.


4.  Pick your comfortable place when it comes to a level of original / correct versus what makes you happy , and what is practical . There’s a place for every degree of OCD here , and it depends on the bike.  for a rider , fun bike , Don’t be fear being canceled for not perfect orig spec ; the other side of the coin realm of bicycle compulsion is that sometimes you can monetize the scarce bits you don’t intend to keep orig , to partially fund the stuff you do .  

5 .  If you find yourself gratified and begin to enjoy the results of your projects ,  keep in mind that people here , generally are not opposed to having multiple projects in que, and so a way to modify your lifestyle accordingly is to go thru your living quarters and reprioritize / reallocate space :  ie .... many folks have in their homes spaces like linen closets ... formal dining rooms etc .... there is no reason these spaces can’t be dedicated to parts storage or bike hoarding , don’t doubt yourself , it’s ok to have fenders in your clothes closet where some folks would hang suits they only wear every few years .

6. Find a bike co op near you , and visit once in a while or volunteer if you have time ..... you will find that you can reduce their trash costs by hunting thru the scrap pile for vintage bikes of interest , and that small hardware bins and drawers will have bolts and bits at the bottom..
A lot of unique parts and particularly schwinn stuff can turn up , ideas and comraderie as well.


7. Always carefully evaluate the cost of solvents , paints products , greases and oils with perspective :  ask yourself “ am I about to lay out more per ounce of this product than the cost of makers mark 46?
If the answer is yes you may want to reconsider. 


8. Vintage bikes are a field of endeavor, so vast  , that no one person, if they did nothing else  over a lifetime , could possibly begin to master ... and the more you discover , the fun it is , to begin to learn what you don’t know. That’s what makes the Cabe so great , and what keeps us in the hobby .


Welcome and , please post a pic sometime before beach season ends so we can see how you’ve done


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## spleeft

Lamont said:


> Great find and and a good choice for a dip in the pool .
> 
> Random lessons I wish I knew before I got hooked :
> 
> 1.  First and foremost : never abrate ... that is to say , dissolve with oils or acids , but always use the least abrasive scribed or polisher that the job calls for
> 
> 
> 2. Really chewed up schwinn coppertone paint , preserved orig  , is vastly better than you think , or what you might do as you find your way ...  my sense is the same holds for gold if that what u have .
> 
> car cleaning wax , and the very least abrasive paint polishing product and are your friends and stay away from graphics with a polish ... car wax is essential for paint  , particularly if near beach or humid climate .
> 
> 3. love your schwinn stem : Never toss or attempt to switch a vintage schwinn stem , before you understand the compatibility of and unique sizes / evolution of these ...
> ( for this bike ,  I’d shoot your stem and bars , all chrome for that matter with PB blaster or a similar and shoot the stem bolt / headset from top and well as from bottom with bike inverted shooting from fork crown )
> 
> The stem you have can be removed soaked and polished , clear coated and reinstalled ...  the forward side will be difficult , but tooth brush and patience.
> 
> you will be amazed and how much chrome comes back with car and wash cloth rather than over a rate with brass brush steel wool etc.
> 
> 
> 4.  Pick your comfortable place when it comes to a level of original / correct versus what makes you happy , and what is practical . There’s a place for every degree of OCD here , and it depends on the bike.  for a rider , fun bike , Don’t be fear being canceled for not perfect orig spec ; the other side of the coin realm of bicycle compulsion is that sometimes you can monetize the scarce bits you don’t intend to keep orig , to partially fund the stuff you do .
> 
> 5 .  If you find yourself gratified and begin to enjoy the results of your projects ,  keep in mind that people here , generally are not opposed to having multiple projects in que, and so a way to modify your lifestyle accordingly is to go thru your living quarters and reprioritize / reallocate space :  ie .... many folks have in their homes spaces like linen closets ... formal dining rooms etc .... there is no reason these spaces can’t be dedicated to parts storage or bike hoarding , don’t doubt yourself , it’s ok to have fenders in your clothes closet where some folks would hang suits they only wear every few years .
> 
> 6. Find a bike co op near you , and visit once in a while or volunteer if you have time ..... you will find that you can reduce their trash costs by hunting thru the scrap pile for vintage bikes of interest , and that small hardware bins and drawers will have bolts and bits at the bottom..
> A lot of unique parts and particularly schwinn stuff can turn up , ideas and comraderie as well.
> 
> 
> 7. Always carefully evaluate the cost of solvents , paints products , greases and oils with perspective :  ask yourself “ am I about to lay out more per ounce of this product than the cost of makers mark 46?
> If the answer is yes you may want to reconsider.
> 
> 
> 8. Vintage bikes are a field of endeavor, so vast  , that no one person, if they did nothing else  over a lifetime , could possibly begin to master ... and the more you discover , the fun it is , to begin to learn what you don’t know. That’s what makes the Cabe so great , and what keeps us in the hobby .
> 
> 
> Welcome and , please post a pic sometime before beach season ends so we can see how you’ve done



Great post, Lamont ! Thanks !


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## spleeft

spleeft said:


> Latest version, testing out the ape hangers, and some customized ( very crudely by me ! ) fenders . I want to shape those fenders by cutting them, what tool do you'all recommend using / thoughts / critique ? What a blast to ride around the hood! Thanks for all the help all !
> View attachment 1340472View attachment 1340473View attachment 1340474



Update- I ve made a few changes that Ill post soon, mainly a new Brooks B66 saddle which I love, and waiting on some new apes. We've been camping a few times and geez what fun it is to ride this bike , ( and her '59 Hollywood ) around the campgrounds!! It's fun that a few select individuals will recognize the bike as somewhat special....a very few but still great conversations ensue !
  Even though I have two modern mountain bikes worth 17k combined I still find myself riding this bike around the neighborhood when taking the dog on shorter runs. The Bendix two speed makes the somewhat  steep gravel roads totally doable. Ill post an updated pic with deets soon.


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## spleeft

Update / latest rendition :
 Added a new Brooks saddle, powder coated 80's Sidewinder Forks, 4 point stem and new black apes w/ original Typhoon grips that where on the bike. Also I got my hands on a S2 rim that had a Bendix RB 2 speed so I shined her up , rebuilt the hub and added some new black spokes with red nips .
 The frame patina  is coming back nicely , I had originally used evaporust on the frame which worked great but left the frame with lots of bare clean steel that just didnt look right. ( pics somewhere earlier in this thread  ).
 Gonna ride her like this for a while but would love any suggestions / critiquing !!! 
 So fun tinkering and riding !!! Thanks to all who helped get me started here !


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969

I really like the original coppertone against the powder coated forks and black bars. Real nice clean up on the wheels. The dog seems to give its approval.


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## spleeft

Update: Finally bought a dremmel tool and reshaped the fenders. Did a quick disassemble/ regrease / clean-wax . Don't think Ill ever sell this one !!


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## WillWork4Parts

bloo said:


> Does everything come off of the axle and if so, can you tell if there is anything special about it?
> 
> When rebuilding my triple red band, I noticed that it takes the same axle(s) as a Bendix single band one-speed coaster brake. That is a super common size and thread that fits a bunch of different coaster brakes. Mine had stripped threads. I replaced it with a cro-mo BMX part.
> 
> The axle for the yellow band and blue band hubs had a different part number that did not seem to cross to any single speed hubs. Just looking at your pics, it seems like an ordinary Bendix etc. axle might fit.



Just saw this question about the axle and wanted to clarify. The main difference in the kickback axle is that it is heat treated. Hard to see in these pics because it's usually worn off, but you can spot NOS ones by their gold/cad coating. While the original can be replaced by any axle with the right threads and length, I have spotted several replacements with issues. Wald replacements have fairly soft threads and can strip out at the planetary gear/recessed lock nut area while under high pedal torque. I even had one not too long ago that had twisted and stretched the axle into a conical shape at the locknut. I was impressed and took a picture but would have to dig through my old phone. You'll notice wear in the center of the axle too where the whole setup flexes under weight and the driver rubs the axle. Soft fully threaded axles will wear a notch quicker than the original axle that is smooth and heat treated.


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## spleeft

WillWork4Parts said:


> Just saw this question about the axle and wanted to clarify. The main difference in the kickback axle is that it is heat treated. Hard to see in these pics because it's usually worn off, but you can spot NOS ones by their gold/cad coating. While the original can be replaced by any axle with the right threads and length, I have spotted several replacements with issues. Wald replacements have fairly soft threads and can strip out at the planetary gear/recessed lock nut area while under high pedal torque. I even had one not too long ago that had twisted and stretched the axle into a conical shape at the locknut. I was impressed and took a picture but would have to dig through my old phone. You'll notice wear in the center of the axle too where the whole setup flexes under weight and the driver rubs the axle. Soft fully threaded axles will wear a notch quicker than the original axle that is smooth and heat treated.



That's some very interesting  observations WW4P !!! You must have a lot of experience with Bendix Auto's !


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## WillWork4Parts

spleeft said:


> That's some very interesting  observations WW4P !!! You must have a lot of experience with Bendix Auto's !



You could say I've had more than a few apart...


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## 59bones

Just went thru the entire thread and just want to say that you are my new hero. Great job on everything!

I just picked up a very nice 26" yellow band S7 and now I need to find a bike to put it on.


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