# Bluebird paint codes?



## WillyD (Jan 25, 2013)

Hey everyone,
This is my first post and this site seems like a great resource.  Thanks for that.

Wondering if there's any information out there on repainting a 1935 Elgin Bluebird.  French Blue seems to correspond to a fairly specific color code, but "red accent" is vague.  Does anyone here have any tips for finding appropriate paint?


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## silvertonguedevil (Jan 25, 2013)

This is a good question/topic. Is there anywhere out there that lists the paint codes for classic bicycles?


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## cl222 (Jan 25, 2013)

You have a blue bird?!?! If you do would you mind telling how you got it? found, bought or a gift?
That is my favorite bike ever made and i am sure i am not the only one that thinks that.


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## Freqman1 (Jan 25, 2013)

This happens to be an area that I've found fellow collectors/restorers reluctant or just flat out won't share the info. I've asked this question a number of times and have never received any information. The only guy who tried to help me was Evan Hatcher--he just didn't have the info due to someone absconding with his paint code book he loaned them. I've hit some of the big guys up for info and I guess they think this may cut into their livlihood by offering up this info. Bob Strucel had a world class french blue BB at Ann Arbor last year he did so if anyone has the info he should. You may try contacting him to see if he can help. V/r Shawn


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## sm2501 (Feb 1, 2013)

Freqman1 said:


> This happens to be an area that I've found fellow collectors/restorers reluctant or just flat out won't share the info. I've asked this question a number of times and have never received any information. The only guy who tried to help me was Evan Hatcher--he just didn't have the info due to someone absconding with his paint code book he loaned them. I've hit some of the big guys up for info and I guess they think this may cut into their livlihood by offering up this info. Bob Strucel had a world class french blue BB at Ann Arbor last year he did so if anyone has the info he should. You may try contacting him to see if he can help. V/r Shawn




It's not like you can say Elgin French blue is Dupont #xxxx. It is something that is typically color matched to an original color sample. These samples and this knowledge takes years to master.  If you talk to a professional bike painter, it certainly is not in their best interest to divulge too much info, as this is the way they earn their livings. This is where the hobby lines get merky. We consider these professional painters to be our friends (I have at least 4 that I consider good friends) and fellow hobbiests, but when it comes to how they put food on their table, that becomes a different deal, as it should. It then reverts to a business relationship, as again, it should. I do not expect them to give me their secrets, color codes (if there is such a thing), etc. I hope that they can do a great job on my next project.


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## sm2501 (Feb 1, 2013)

sm2501 said:


> It's not like you can say Elgin French blue is Dupont #xxxx. It is something that is typically color matched to an original color sample. These samples and this knowledge takes years to master.  If you talk to a professional bike painter, it certainly is not in their best interest to divulge too much info, as this is the way they earn their livings. This is where the hobby lines get merky. We consider these professional painters to be our friends (I have at least 4 that I consider good friends) and fellow hobbiests, but when it comes to how they put food on their table, that becomes a different deal, as it should. It then reverts to a business relationship, as again, it should. I do not expect them to give me their secrets, color codes (if there is such a thing), etc. I hope that they can do a great job on my next project.




One of my painter friends shared a color sample to a collector that was taken off an original bike, only to be told that the color was wrong.


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## SirMike1983 (Feb 1, 2013)

Would it be possible to reverse engineer it from a high quality photograph with a known exposure and F-stop setting? Perhaps take a picture of a bike with the color you want while noting the amount of light and exposure you've set the camera to. Then load the digital image into your computer and open up Photoshop. Photoshop has a tool that allows you to view the color content of a color displayed in the picture. You would then sample a high number of places all over the picture and average them, this would control for bright sunny spots vs. shade. The composite average you have would give the color content controlled for light and shade spots.


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## Freqman1 (Feb 3, 2013)

sm2501 said:


> One of my painter friends shared a color sample to a collector that was taken off an original bike, only to be told that the color was wrong.




I am gonna have to disagree with the logic on this one. Many of the bike companies used automotive colors although some did use proprietary colors. The thing is the guys that are going to send their bikes out for a high end resto will still go to these guys. I will paint any bike that I restore myself so they wouldn't be losing my business anyway. Most better paint jobbers now have the ability to color match any color using a spectrophotmeter. You just have to have enough of the original color. Of course if your working with something that was stripped long this isn't going to help. Most of the other hobbies I'm involved in people share information much more freely regardless if they do it for a living or not. By not providing the info misinformation is perpetuated and bikes wind up getting painted the wrong color(s). Of course that's jus my 2c. V/r Shawn


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## MrColumbia (Feb 4, 2013)

I'm going to jump into this thread not because I know much about it but because I am asked this question about 5 times a day. On my area of interest, Columbia/Westfield I have just about every year catalog there is. I have never seen any paint codes listed. There is some paint charts I have but the samples are labeled with Westfield's own name for the color, not the paint manufacturers code. My question is even if there was a paint manufacturers # code say back in the 30's or 40's would that even mean anything to an automotive paint supplier now? As was already stated any automotive paint supplier can scan a paint sample (under the headbadge works best) and recreate the color as accurate as anyone will ever get. I'm not sure if it is much a question of being a secret as much of paint "codes" for antique bikes simply not existing in most cases. 
 Please correct me or fill me in more completely because I'm in the dark on this one. I'd love to give people a number so they could paint their bike correctly.


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## JAF/CO (Feb 4, 2013)

*match the original paint on the bike don't forget it is faded 
after 70  + years*


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## Freqman1 (Feb 4, 2013)

A little quick background here--my Dad was a body/paint man for 50 years and I was raised with sandpaper in my hands. I have painted more than a few cars to include streetrods and special interest autos. Yes, paint does fade or oxidize which results in a color change. As Ken said you try to find paint under a head badge or underneath a fender, guard, or rack. 

Regarding the early paint codes I'm providing a link to a site and using this I have been able to get paint mixed by my local jobber. While some of the bicycle colors may not have 'codes' those that have had them mixed certainly have the formula that any paint supplier could mix. I suppose part of the problem with this hobby is that few have taken the time to document or do scholarly research on the more technical aspects of the hobby-to include paint. Hampering this is the reluctance or refusal of some  folks to share their knowledge. As an example I called the Bicycle Museum of America for some info and was rather rudely told they do not share their archives with anyone. That's kinda weird since I thought the purpose of a_ real _museum was to provide learning and access so that the body of knowledge could be expanded? 

If I get some time this year I will make an effort to research and provide some of the codes for the more popular stuff e.g. Phantom greens, reds, and blues. My Dad also has the original Schwinn post war chips he found in the seat tube of his '47 straight bar. Also for the bikes I have I can take them to my local jobber and get a spectrophotometer read and provide the formulas. This should at least help a few folks out there. I know that those that make their living restoring bicycles may disagree with my position and I certainly don't want to upset anyone and mean no malice towards anyone. For the most part I've found the people in the bicycle hobby to be friendly, enthusiastic, if not sometimes a little eccentric--but who am I to talk? V/r Shawn

http://www.tcpglobal.com/autocolorlibrary/


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## slick (Feb 4, 2013)

I do body and paint for a living also and i would much rather give someone the paint code to something instead of let them paint it the wrong color. What would you rather see, a bluebird painted the right color or it being the wrong color and being ridiculed at the show with everyone talking bad about the bike since it's the wrong color? The other thing to consider is that not everyone can afford a proffesional restoration on a bike that i have heard cost in upwards of $5k??? That in my opinion is insane. $2k is more realistic for the paint and chrome work. If parts are missing, that's a different story.


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## Nickinator (Feb 4, 2013)

I used to own a body/repair shop that restored classic cars (as well as late-model collision stuff) for 20+ years, and I can't understand the reluctance to share paint codes. We never had any issues with sharing codes, whether we had a factory code to go by, or had to scan and color match, or I'd spent 2 hours looking through chip books.

 Try going to an older well-established paint shop and ask to look thru their paint chip books. Different decades were known for specific colors, so you will want to be able to go back 50-60 years. I choose a lot of old colors this way. Just keep in mind some chips age better than others- red is the weakest pigment and prone to fading and color change the most.

But dang, I would think you could find someone to share their codes with you eventually?   BFD.

Darcie


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 5, 2013)

Sorry, I couldn't help myself...


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## Nickinator (Feb 5, 2013)

37fleetwood said:


> Sorry, I couldn't help myself...




It burns!!!!!!! IT BURNS!!!!!!!!!


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## npence (Feb 5, 2013)

What are the trophies for I hope not for best of show. But is the first ratted out bluebird I've ever seen.


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## Nickinator (Feb 5, 2013)

npence said:


> What are the trophies for I hope not for best of show. But is the first ratted out bluebird I've ever seen.




Some bluebirds are left naked because others need parts.


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## silvertonguedevil (Feb 5, 2013)

First of all, I just threw up a little bit so thank you for that.

Secondly, I don't understand the big deal in providing paint codes either. Having paint codes doesn't make you a good painter. If someone doesn't know how to or have the facility to produce a quality paint job, they're still going to seek help from a professional. I'm the Larry Watson of rattle can paint jobs but I would still have my bike painted by a professional if I was working on a high-end restoration.


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## Freqman1 (Feb 5, 2013)

Someone should be banished from ever touching another bicycle! V/r Shawn


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## OldSkipTooth (Apr 11, 2018)

37fleetwood said:


> Sorry, I couldn't help myself...
> 
> View attachment 534829




Old post, but that poor bird...


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