# Dream Project



## Suppatime (Jul 22, 2011)

Hello all...

New to the site, and relatively new to the world of bicycles, though I used to own one as a kid. I am, however, a tinkerer of cars, and a lot of this passion is quickly making it over to this new field.

I'm looking into being more active and riding a bike around Los Angeles for simple errands (as opposed to driving around the truck I need for work) and I figure I might as well do it in style...

I'm very interested in owning an early 20th century Columbia or Peugeot chainless bicycle, and doing a complete restoration. I'm tempted to do some modifications pending some commentary from the purists of the group.

I'd like to find one in ridable condition and bringing it back to life with a new coat of glossy black paint, acquiring a set of wooden rims from the Amish, and upgrading the seat to a nice saddle leather one from Brooks or Murphy... with copper trim. I will most likely remove the poor-condition cork handles (I'd sell them if they were in decent condition) and replace with wood.  The goal is to convert all of the nickel-plated or chrome hardware to copper plating. I don't think I've ever seen it done before, and with the right set of tires, I think it could be a beautiful and tasteful one-off bicycle.

What are your thoughts on the project? And what would be a reasonable price to pay for such a bicycle?

I am interested in putting on some rims that can handle the Fat Frank tires... does anyone know if the forks (and the rest of the bike) can handle them?

Thanks ahead of time from a novice.


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## pelletman (Jul 23, 2011)

I would use the wood grained new 700C rims that velocity has.  Avoid the ball end spoke bikes.  Charlie Harper in Iowa sells them and you can find him and much more chainless info on the Wheelmen site


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## jpromo (Jul 23, 2011)

http://cgi.ebay.com/PREWAR-COLUMBIA-CHAINLESS-SHAFT-DRIVE-BICYCLE-PRE-WAR-/180697388825?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a12675719
This one looks in pretty exceptional condition though.

You're likely to pay a pretty penny for these but you might be able to latch onto a rough one, ripe for restoration, for a decent price. They are quite incredible. Keep us updated if you find something!


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## elginkid (Jul 24, 2011)

I would be skeptical of fitting the fat tires inside the forks.  They were set up for far narrower wheels originally.  If you go the wood route, see if you can find someone who will make you a set of wood clincher rims, so you're not stuck with the uber-expensive glue on tires.  I've seen the Velocity rims, and they look stunning, but I bought my set from CB Italia, and they are fantastic, but be VERY careful not to over-inflate them.  Don't listen to what the tire says, and please don't ask how I know.  The other manufacturer is Ghisallo, sold by Wheel Fanatyk, and they are exceptionally beautiful also.  

Chainless bicycles are fantastic when they are in good working order, and a pain in the rear end when they're not.

Wes


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## Suppatime (Jul 24, 2011)

jpromo said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/PREWAR-COLUMBIA-CHAINLESS-SHAFT-DRIVE-BICYCLE-PRE-WAR-/180697388825?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a12675719
> This one looks in pretty exceptional condition though.
> 
> You're likely to pay a pretty penny for these but you might be able to latch onto a rough one, ripe for restoration, for a decent price. They are quite incredible. Keep us updated if you find something!




That's the exact one at the moment... hope no one else here is bidding on it. With the prices I've seen for other ones, I'm prepared to spend about $1,000 on it.


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## Suppatime (Jul 24, 2011)

elginkid said:


> I would be skeptical of fitting the fat tires inside the forks.  They were set up for far narrower wheels originally.  If you go the wood route, see if you can find someone who will make you a set of wood clincher rims, so you're not stuck with the uber-expensive glue on tires.  I've seen the Velocity rims, and they look stunning, but I bought my set from CB Italia, and they are fantastic, but be VERY careful not to over-inflate them.  Don't listen to what the tire says, and please don't ask how I know.  The other manufacturer is Ghisallo, sold by Wheel Fanatyk, and they are exceptionally beautiful also.
> 
> Chainless bicycles are fantastic when they are in good working order, and a pain in the rear end when they're not.
> 
> Wes




Luckily there's a lot of bicycle shops around me here in SoCal... I'm being hopeful that they'll fit, but one shop has already agreed to a test fit before I purchase them. 

I'll ride on the factory rims before I go to the glue-on type. Too much hassle. Thanks for the info... I'll look into those wheel companies. Work is taking me to Indiana tomorrow, and there's a large Amish community there. I'll stop by and see if I can contact someone about making me a set regardless. If anyone else is interested, I'll try to get contact and business information for those skilled craftsmen still making the wooden rims.


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## pelletman (Jul 25, 2011)

You need to talk to Noah Stuzman in OH who is listed in the Wheelmen newsletter.  He is the only Amish guy out there making rims like this bike needs. If it were me and I were going to be building a rider I'd get the 700C rims and tires.  If it were me I would get a chain drive bike too.

The original tires are 1.5", I don't think you can or should fit the fatter tires in the fork.


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## Suppatime (Jul 27, 2011)

jpromo said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/PREWAR-COLUMBIA-CHAINLESS-SHAFT-DRIVE-BICYCLE-PRE-WAR-/180697388825?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a12675719
> This one looks in pretty exceptional condition though.
> 
> You're likely to pay a pretty penny for these but you might be able to latch onto a rough one, ripe for restoration, for a decent price. They are quite incredible. Keep us updated if you find something!




Aaaaand that Columbia is mine.


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## jpromo (Jul 27, 2011)

Excellent, congrats! That bike looks stunning. Such a lovely, clean look to it


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## DonChristie (Jul 27, 2011)

Thats gonna be cool when your done, post pics and come riding with the Cyclone Coaster boys on the 1st Sunday in the LBC. I have never seen a Copper plated bike and it should be expensive, lol. Artistic Chrome in Signal Hill should be able to handle the plating. Good luck!


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## Suppatime (Jul 28, 2011)

schwinndoggy said:


> Thats gonna be cool when your done, post pics and come riding with the Cyclone Coaster boys on the 1st Sunday in the LBC. I have never seen a Copper plated bike and it should be expensive, lol. Artistic Chrome in Signal Hill should be able to handle the plating. Good luck!




Well the whole bike isn't getting the copper treatment... just all the bits that are currently chrome. So handlebars, sprockets, pedals and spokes. Maybe a headlight, if I find an appropriate one.


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## oddball (Jul 30, 2011)

Why copper? nickel plate em'. And a Old Sol (or the like) carbide lamp would look great.
By the way,whats the diameter of the tubing on your bike? I have a 1905 which is 1 1/8"

Cliff


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## Suppatime (Aug 6, 2011)

I'm 50/50 about the copper plating; I've never seen it done and think it can be very elegant. Nickel is a close second.... rhodium is third. 

My tubes are 1 1/2" diameter. Just got the bicycle in the mail and assembled yesterday. The rims are not original, and seem smaller than what was listed (eBay find). Unless I'm measuring wrong (from the edge of the outer lip where the tire connects to the same thing on the other side), the rims are 23.5 inches. I've never heard of this size before. I'm hoping I can put a set of 26" on the bike, as that is the size I thought I was buying. I'm kind of tall (6'1"). 

The paint is good for a 100+ year old bike, but is not original. I'll be priming it and repainting it glossy black. I'll also be losing the reproduction seat (8/10 condition, just not good for where I need to sit) and the original handles, which need some work. The driveshaft and gearing is flawless. I'm quite impressed how well made it is and how it's held up. 

I'll post pictures later when I'm not working. 

Thanks for the words of encouragement!


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## Suppatime (Aug 8, 2011)

All right!

Here she is:






Driveshaft cranks smoothly, though some of the bearings are worn and will eventually need replacement. The 26" rims and spokes need to be replaced, and I've been told that 700C will fit in with some fatter tires. I can go up to 2", but the Fat Franks won't fit. After seeing them in person, they're too big anyway.

I'll be getting a new post and seat in the near future... most likely a honeycomb colored Brooks seat with copper rivets and springs. I was interested in raising the handlebars, which a gentleman from a custom bicycle shop says can be done fairly easily while retaining the original hardware. I'm debating on new handlebars, as the original ones are folded and brazed with brass to connect the gaps... the won't take to bending well, and I'll need a grip that's slightly farther apart.

When I stop pedaling, the bicycle slows down as result of the permanently-engaged gear... it's a bit of hell on my legs already, so I'm debating on a drum brake for the front.

The shop is willing to get me the 700C rims and copper plate the spokes for me... so after that, it'll be time for the new (or used) handlebars to be copper plated and clear coated (I don't think I want to have to polish them all the time).

Over all, it's a great bicycle that needs some work to get it to where I want it to be. I'll follow up with pictures along the way!


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## Suppatime (Aug 8, 2011)

All right!

Here she is:






Driveshaft cranks smoothly, though some of the bearings are worn and will eventually need replacement. The 26" rims and spokes need to be replaced, and I've been told that 700C will fit in with some fatter tires. I can go up to 2", but the Fat Franks won't fit. After seeing them in person, they're too big anyway.

I'll be getting a new post and seat in the near future... most likely a honeycomb colored Brooks seat with copper rivets and springs. I was interested in raising the handlebars, which a gentleman from a custom bicycle shop says can be done fairly easily while retaining the original hardware. I'm debating on new handlebars, as the original ones are folded and brazed with brass to connect the gaps... the won't take to bending well, and I'll need a grip that's slightly farther apart.

When I stop pedaling, the bicycle slows down as result of the permanently-engaged gear... it's a bit of hell on my legs already, so I'm debating on a drum brake for the front.

The shop is willing to get me the 700C rims and copper plate the spokes for me... so after that, it'll be time for the new (or used) handlebars to be copper plated and clear coated (I don't think I want to have to polish them all the time).

Over all, it's a great bicycle that needs some work to get it to where I want it to be. I'll follow up with pictures along the way!


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## twowheelfan (Aug 8, 2011)

*if you decide to get new bars...*

I might be interested in yours. Could you take some pics of the parts you are thinking about replacing? I might be able to help offset the cost of replating a little.


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## Larmo63 (Aug 8, 2011)

I feel that you have no idea what you are doing. You should start a "custom" project and try to restore this bike back to historically correct. IMHO.


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## Suppatime (Aug 8, 2011)

twowheelfan said:


> I might be interested in yours. Could you take some pics of the parts you are thinking about replacing? I might be able to help offset the cost of replating a little.




I'll be sure to let you know which parts I will be willing to sell. I'm still fairly early on in the process.


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## Suppatime (Aug 8, 2011)

Larmo63 said:


> I feel that you have no idea what you are doing. You should start a "custom" project and try to restore this bike back to historically correct. IMHO.




I don't have much experience with bicycles. That's why I'm here, spending most of my time reading and researching. Doing an all-original restoration was a very serious consideration when I decided to buy. It's very difficult to find a bicycle frame that is similar to this one with a driveshaft configuration. But one of my biggest concerns for returning this bicycle to original specifications was that I'd have to source a lot of original parts that would end up being difficult for me to ride with.

Specifically, I'm referring to the wooden grips that are simply too small for my hands, an original seat (as the one currently on this bicycle was a replacement) and wooden rims with glue-on tires. I simply have no desire to spend $250-300 on tires. I have a few contacts that are willing to make me wooden rims that will bite onto more modern tires, and I'm seriously considering that as an option. 

I don't see my project as a bastardization of a classic bicycle, but I can see where a purist might be concerned. The only thing I feel that might throw it into that territory would be the copper plating. But on the other hand, I see it as a relatively simple customization that's still elegant.

I'll be fully restoring it as is, and then customizing it as per my riding requirements... some of them just happen to be adjusting the positioning of the seat and handlebars, as this bicycle was an eBay find and I wasn't able to accurately assess the seating position from the photographs.


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## Iverider (Aug 8, 2011)

Neat bike, but do the next owner a favor and keep all of the parts you bought in a box and include it with the bike if/when you sell it. If you're not a bicycle person a "fixie" is a helluva place to start. I built one up from a little 500 bicycle I found in the trash and sold it a week later. It just wasn't enjoyable to ride daily. Whoever invented the freewheel is a saint in my book. I'm by no means saying you should lose any interest in the cool bike you bought, but consider making only changes that can be easily reversed. 

And if you're looking for modern rims with a bit of an old school profile, check out Velocity P35 700c rims. they have a similar profile to a 28" wood wheel and even come in a faux wood pattern (teak) although those are more expensive than the black or silver rims. I can't decide yet whether or not the faux wood is cheesy, or super cool. I know purists would probably sway to the cheesy side, but if it allows you to ride your bike so be it. You can probably also look at city bike tires or cyclocross tires and find something that rolls well but with a similar carcass size to a single-tube 28" tire for a lot less. I'm currently going through this whole decision making process with my newly acquired Iver Johnson and although I do have a rough set of wood wheels, I plan on shining them up and using them sparingly, but also having a daily driver type wheelset with some 38x700c tires for running around on country roads. My bike, however, is nowhere near as nice as this bike so I feel anything I do will be an improvement! It's cool, but it's going to need a lot of work before it ever pedals again. 

Good luck with your bike!


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## pelletman (Aug 9, 2011)

Some of the Columbia Chainless' came with black rims, so I think they certainly are appropriate.  Noah Stuzman in OH makes wood rims, but I'm not sure if he has done a clincher yet.  I think the fake wood look pretty good too.  If it were me, I'd probably pick black


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## Iverider (Aug 9, 2011)

I was TOLD that wood rims were originally painted in most if not all cases.


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## Suppatime (Aug 9, 2011)

Do any of you ride with modern wood wheels? I've been advised that they take to better abuse from potholes and such (not that it's my intent to ride into one) than the metal counterparts. I'd love to find a set of 700c clinchers, but would love some opinions first.

...and I'll use the search function.


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## DonChristie (Aug 9, 2011)

I ride my 28 inch Metal clad over wood rims alot! No problem!


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## DonChristie (Aug 9, 2011)

I ride my 28 inch Metal clad over wood rims alot! No problem! oops, you asked about modern rims, nevermind


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## pelletman (Aug 10, 2011)

Krautwaggen said:


> I was TOLD that wood rims were originally painted in most if not all cases.




You've been told wrong, plenty were natural, some were covered with other materials too


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## Suppatime (Aug 16, 2011)

So I've decided on getting 700c rims, as I took my bicycle to a classic shop in Pasadena, CA and the gentleman there says that they will fit. 

It's time for recommendations... I've already looked into the Velocity P35s, and they're at the top of my list so far. 

Looking for black rims and hubs that will work. My biggest concern right now are the hubs... should I reuse the ones that came with the bicycle? If so, what options are there for refurbishing the ball bearings?


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## Iverider (Aug 18, 2011)

Is the rear hub chainless specific? If so, you're stuck with that, or a direct replacement hub. As far as the bearings, have you taken the hubs apart yet? They may be in very good condition with lots of dried up grease packed around them. You won't know until you dissassemble them. You can probably find loose replacement bearings to fit your application from a hardware store should you have any pitted bearings. The bearing races and cones are another story, not so easily remedied if they're screwy.


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## Suppatime (Aug 18, 2011)

Krautwaggen said:


> Is the rear hub chainless specific? If so, you're stuck with that, or a direct replacement hub. As far as the bearings, have you taken the hubs apart yet? They may be in very good condition with lots of dried up grease packed around them. You won't know until you dissassemble them. You can probably find loose replacement bearings to fit your application from a hardware store should you have any pitted bearings. The bearing races and cones are another story, not so easily remedied if they're screwy.




I'm fairly certain that the rear hub is chinless specific. I don't know of anyone who makes replacement hubs for them, but both hubs are in very good shape and I'll reuse them as necessary.

I've taken the front hub apart (it's easy) and the grease could use replacement. There is a bit of a stutter (only way I can think to describe it) with the rear when I pedal with my left foot. I'm thinking that the bearings for the rear are worn. 

As for the cones... I won't know until the rear is disassembled, but I'm fortunate in that I have access to a few machine shops nearby.


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## Larmo63 (Aug 18, 2011)

*Check my thread on Antique Bicycles area; "Pinstriping new wood wheels"*

I have the blog address and email address listed for you to check out the Ghisallo wood wheels. They are quite elegant and sturdy. Pricey though. Sorry about my earlier harsh comments, but this bicycle needs to be kept historically intact. By the way, this Ranger is a fully rideable and functional motorbike.







Suppatime said:


> Do any of you ride with modern wood wheels? I've been advised that they take to better abuse from potholes and such (not that it's my intent to ride into one) than the metal counterparts. I'd love to find a set of 700c clinchers, but would love some opinions first.
> 
> ...and I'll use the search function.


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## Suppatime (Aug 23, 2011)

Larmo63 said:


> I have the blog address and email address listed for you to check out the Ghisallo wood wheels. They are quite elegant and sturdy. Pricey though. Sorry about my earlier harsh comments, but this bicycle needs to be kept historically intact. By the way, this Ranger is a fully rideable and functional motorbike.




I'd love to get that info from you.

As far as the restoration process, I understand your concerns, but I'm only changing things on this bicycle that aren't original to begin with. The seat was a reproduction... I purchased a vintage Brooks seat with a nice patina. The grips, though original, need repair, and they're too small for my hands. They're going in a box and I'm putting on a set of Abici Italia wood grips.

The rims will be wood and most likely the 700c size, and I'm retaining the original hubs that are still on the replacement rims that are on the bicycle now (which are 26"). The 700c's will fit and more closely resemble the original size wheel and tire on the bicycle... I highly doubt 26" rims were original, as the pedals are so low that I sometimes scrape the ground.

The only change I am considering is the Copper plating. But even so, Copper plating is a necessary step to electroplating other metals, such as Nickel. so in the future, if I sell her, all of the exposed metal pieces will be ready for the electroplating of another metal.


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