# ID Help  Double straight bar frame



## sqrly (Jul 20, 2013)

I just aquired this frame, for and crank.  The sprocket is bent up pretty good and will be entering my sprocket collection, but the frame and fork I intend to use for a rider.  I kept the sprocket on to help with ID.  I have a photo of the same sprocket that I have marked as "Shapleigh Special 1911-1920" but I cant find where I originally got the pic from.  The badge is missing but used screws on the sides, not the top and bottom.  The fork was nickel plated all the way to the steering tube.  The front half of the frame is pretty long (I can measure if needed).  It takes a 13/16" (.812") seatpost.  Appears to be sized for 28x1.5" wheels.  Both the chainstay and seatstay have curved bridges.  

*Edit* I forgot to include the serial number, it is, J over top of 69646

I cant find much info or photos of double straight bar frames other than the camelback style.


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## sam (Jul 20, 2013)

I think just about every one sold this type frame
here's a Schwinn:
http://schwinncruisers.com/catalogs/1917.html#model-1758
Mead also sold a double straight bar.
Great Western/Dayton/and Columbia all sold them


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## sqrly (Jul 20, 2013)

I know alot of Mfg made them, but for some reason I cant find anything.  I'm thinking the sprocket and crank should help narrow it down and the badge would have the screw holes on the sides rather than on the top like a Schwinn would have.

What are the common names for this frame design?  I see that Schwinn called it a truss frame, but I always thought the arched type were truss frames like the Iver Johnson.


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## sqrly (Jul 21, 2013)

This is the closest I have found.  Very similar frame and sprocket, hard to tell in such a low res photo.  But I also notice the fork is different.  The photo I found on a car forum and they found it on the cabe.  So somebody around here ether does or did own this bike and might be able to help me.


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## tommydale1950 (Jul 21, 2013)

*Shapleigh Special*

This is my crank and chain ring from teens Shapleigh Special ... Tom


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## Larmo63 (Jul 21, 2013)

Slotted seat bolt hole looks Iver Johnson......


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## Iverider (Jul 21, 2013)

Rear dropouts are wrong for Iver. So is crank and chainring.

Chainring kind of reminds me of something Great Western Manufacturing would have used on their bikes.


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## sqrly (Jul 21, 2013)

tommydale1950 said:


> This is my crank and chain ring from teens Shapleigh Special ... Tom




Where are your badge holes on your shapleigh?  I have tried google searching Shapleigh and dont find much.  Can you post a pic of you badge so I know what to look for?


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## JChapoton (Jul 21, 2013)

The crank is from a Schwinn World Model No.1756 and the frame is Schwinn World Truss Frame Model No. 1758.

http://schwinncruisers.com/catalogs/1917.html#model-1758


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## sam (Jul 21, 2013)

Mead did sell double bar bikes and the BB looks like the one on my Mead. Schwinn made a triple plate fork--but so did others. Columbia used a Patn. reinforcing rings brazed in the head tube.


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## sqrly (Jul 21, 2013)

sam said:


> Mead did sell double bar bikes and the BB looks like the one on my Mead. Schwinn made a triple plate fork--but so did others. Columbia used a Patn. reinforcing rings brazed in the head tube.




The Columbia rings you talk about.  You say they are inside the head tube.  The fork may or may not be orignal.  The crown race is missing and has been for a while, as told by the deep groves worn into the top of the crown from the lower bearing cup.  So ether it was apart and the crown race was lost, or the fork was replaced, hard to tell.




> JChapoton
> 
> The crank is from a Schwinn World Model No.1756 and the frame is Schwinn World Truss Frame Model No. 1758.
> 
> http://schwinncruisers.com/catalogs/...tml#model-1758



That sprocket on the 1756 is different and the truss frame 1758 was made for 26" wheels and had a drop stand, nether attributes does my frame have.


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## bikewhorder (Jul 21, 2013)

I don't know what it is but looks like Dean had the same frame and the same question http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?41380-What-s-this


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## sam (Jul 21, 2013)

sqrly said:


> The Columbia rings you talk about.  You say they are inside the head tube.
> Yes when you have the fork out take a close look at the head tube. Columbia brazed a ring at the top and Bottom of their head tube to re-enforce it.


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## sqrly (Jul 21, 2013)

bikewhorder said:


> I don't know what it is but looks like Dean had the same frame and the same question http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?41380-What-s-this




Yep, but in the time he had it, to the time I got it, somebody stole (said in jest) my pedals.  I would be interested in buying those pedals from the thief.






sam said:


> sqrly said:
> 
> 
> > The Columbia rings you talk about.  You say they are inside the head tube.
> ...




I will look at it in the morning.  I never did look inside the head tube.  Would all Columbia's from this time period have said rings?


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## dfa242 (Jul 22, 2013)

Yes indeed - that's the same frame.



bikewhorder said:


> I don't know what it is but looks like Dean had the same frame and the same question http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?41380-What-s-this


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## sqrly (Jul 22, 2013)

dfa242 said:


> Yes indeed - that's the same frame.




Would you still happen to have the pedals???


I am probable wrong, but from what I have read and the parts that were on the frame, I'm thinking it is a Davis built Shapleigh, possibly with a replacement fork.  I cant find any good advertisements or even photos of Shapleigh Hardware bikes.  Just a couple here and there, and the ones I have found are of no help.  But Davis built has merrit because of the way the serial number is stamped.


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## dfa242 (Jul 22, 2013)

sqrly said:


> Would you still happen to have the pedals???




Sorry but no - I sold it with the pedals so they went missing some time after that.  And I can't really help with identification - still a mystery to me.


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## sqrly (Jul 27, 2013)

sam said:


> Mead did sell double bar bikes and the BB looks like the one on my Mead. Schwinn made a triple plate fork--but so did others. Columbia used a Patn. reinforcing rings brazed in the head tube.






sam said:


> sqrly said:
> 
> 
> > The Columbia rings you talk about.  You say they are inside the head tube.
> ...




I looked inside the head tube and there are no rings.


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## sqrly (Jul 27, 2013)

What i did find inside the head tube were tabs bent over at the end of the top and down tubes to prevent the the tubes from pulling out of the frame.  I pulled the crank out, and the seat and down tubes are pinned about 1/2" from the BB shell.

The black paint is extremely thick in places and I thought it was brushed on, but I found the same black paint inside the head tube and BB shell.  So, where I was thinking to was originally a red frame, I am now wondering it it was red primer and dipped in black paint because the black is far more covering inside than any sloppy brush paint could be.  And I note there is no paint on the headset or BB bearing cups.  Another thing I notice, it where the paint was really thick in BB area and flaked off, it is clean bare metal and no other color found.

The fork was entirely nickel plated and has a strong resemblance to an ad for a Mead replacement fork, but that ad was small and not very detailed.

The BB bearing locknut is stamped with two spanner holes.  The sprocket side cone has a very large bevel on the face that mates the sprocket.

I would really like to know for sure what the sprocket is.  I think that will help narrow my search alot.  I still feel it could be a Shapleigh Hardware bike, as it quite possible/probable they bought from different manufacturers.

The frame does not appear to have lugs, but must have internal BB lug if it is pinned.  The badge holes are on the sides and spaced 2-1/16" (measured by wrapping a tape measure around the head tube).  Frame may have been dip painted originally.  Interesting note, the seat stay and chain stay bridges do not have holes for mounting fenders and they are both slightly curved with no flair at ends.  The serial number is stamped around the BB shell, underneath, on the non-drive side, instead of across like most are stamped.

All measurements are to center line and done with a tape measure.  Next week when I have more time in the garage, I will get more accurate measurements
Head tube, 3-1/2" OAL
top tube, 24"
Down tube, 24-1/2"
Seat tube 19-3/4", 20-3/8" to top
Seatstays, 20-1/4"
Chainstays, 18-5/8"

http://s218.photobucket.com/user/sqrly715/library/Double Bar Bicycle Frame?sort=3&page=1
^^^ Photos ^^^


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## sam (Jul 28, 2013)

sqrly said:


> What i did find inside the head tube were tabs bent over at the end of the top and down tubes to prevent the the tubes from pulling out of the frame.
> These are "internal" lugs. Used by a lot of manufactures of that era.


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## sqrly (Jul 28, 2013)

sam said:


> sqrly said:
> 
> 
> > What i did find inside the head tube were tabs bent over at the end of the top and down tubes to prevent the the tubes from pulling out of the frame.
> ...




Thanks fro the reply, but darn it, I dont like hearing the a "lot" of mfg's used the internal lugs...  Makes tracking down the maker much harder. 

At least I know it is pre 1928 due to the nickel on everything.  And the BB lock nut seems to be mostly in the 1916-1920 range. Any ideas where to get Shapleigh catalogs from that time period?  I think I am going to find out for sure who the sprocket is attributed to and restore it to that.  But I need to know what kind of striping should be done if it were black or red.  Also what kind of stem and handlebars would be correct.  

Another general question is mounting fenders.  I have seen a few that the chainstay mount was like a clip and I have used modern fender on my commuter bike that had a clip for the seatstay bridge, but I dont know if there is anything like that on teen's bikes.  Or maybe mine never had fenders which would save money in the restoration. lol


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## sam (Jul 28, 2013)

My mead has that BB with the spanner holes and Black with red head was the early Mead colors before Ranger Brown.
 really need to find a photo showing that chainring.


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## sam (Jul 28, 2013)

I can't see the sprocket too good but looks to be same as yours
http://www.nostalgic.net/bicycle737/picture2946


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## sqrly (Jul 28, 2013)

That rugby does look very similar.  I will sent him a message and see if I can get a better scan of that page.  Interesting note, every reference to Rugby is that it was a name associated with Shapleigh hardware.  

Thank you for your help sam.


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