# Schwinn S2 Respoke...am I doing this right???



## Mondo (Mar 17, 2021)

The first couple of photos are of a 26" S2 before cleaning and polishing the hub. I bought new stainless steel spokes to put on but noticed they were a bit longer than the originals. The bike shop owner said, "These are the right ones, they’ll work". So as I start to respoke, I realize they are gonna be way too long. The original pattern looks like a 2-cross pattern but to make the new spokes work I had to use a 4-cross pattern. My questions are: 1) Should I just take them back and get the same length spokes?  2) Or does this spoke pattern look better in the follow up photos? My concern are the spokes that lay on top of the upspokes. Is that not right? Any and all advice and discussions are welcome. Thanks in advance guys.


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## GTs58 (Mar 18, 2021)

The old S-2's were laced 4 cross with 269 mm spokes. My eyes are tired, and I'm having a hard time following that pattern.


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## Mondo (Mar 18, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> The old S-2's were laced 4 cross with 269 mm spokes. My eyes are tired, and I'm having a hard time following that pattern.



Okay, I think I know what you mean by a 4 cross pattern now. Thanks GTs58.


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## GTs58 (Mar 18, 2021)

Looks like you got it.


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## 1817cent (Mar 18, 2021)

Looks good!


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## Mondo (Mar 18, 2021)

So it’s okay that the spokes lays on top of the up spokes? As in where #3 is? Would that be an issue or should I just get the same length as before.


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## Bendix (Mar 18, 2021)

Worst case it will be a very minor annoyance if you ever have to replace a broken spoke that's underneath. And that's unlikely. 

You had the smarts to lace it without the internals! 

Bravo.


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## Mondo (Mar 18, 2021)

Bendix said:


> Worst case it will be a very minor annoyance if you ever have to replace a broken spoke that's underneath. And that's unlikely.
> 
> You had the smarts to lace it without the internals!
> 
> Bravo.



Thank you for bringing that up, I havent thought about that, if one breaks. That’s what I like about this group, people having positive input and a learnable discussion.


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## Rivnut (Mar 18, 2021)

Looks like the original 3 cross I have on a 52 Hornet.  Over, over, over. Over, over, under may create a stronger wheel but you're not a kid hopping curbs on a daily basis.


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## Mondo (Mar 18, 2021)

Rivnut said:


> Looks like the original 3 cross I have on a 52 Hornet.  Over, over, over. Over, over, under may create a stronger wheel but you're not a kid hopping curbs on a daily basis.



I’m still learning what 3 cross is compared to a 4 cross. The front wheel looks different obviously because the circumference of the front wheel hub is greater than the rear wheel hub.


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## Mondo (Mar 18, 2021)

I’ll post more pictures tomorrow of the 2 wheels before cleaning.


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## Mondo (Mar 18, 2021)

I’ll post pictures tomorrow of the wheels before they were cleaned.


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## GTs58 (Mar 18, 2021)

The number of crosses is where one spoke crosses over spokes that are going the opposite direction. Two cross is insane! Most all of the old S-2 wheels before  some 60's and later were 4 cross. The first middleweights were 4 cross and that shortly changed and they went to 3 cross. If you go from a 4 cross to 3 cross you'll need shorter spokes. Basically changing the # of crosses changes the radius point. 

And yes, the spoke on the outside of the flange crosses over the spokes on the inside of the flange.


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## Vicious Cycle (Mar 18, 2021)

When I worked for Schwinn I laced wheels and the way I was taught is the 1st upper spoke to the right of the valve hole (top side of hub) was always head up in the hub and swung to the left (counter clock wise). It looks like your pattern is right but your 1st spoke is head down. It should make little difference in strength, but if you look at a original untouched Schwinn wheel they are laced the way I was taught. Also the last cross (furthest from the hub) should be under-laced to the spoke it crosses.
If you look at a rear wheel, the driven direction (of the sprocket) the CCW spoke (head up) has a straighter path to the rim and this theoretically is a stronger wheel.


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## bloo (Mar 19, 2021)

Vicious Cycle said:


> When I worked for Schwinn I laced wheels and the way I was taught is the 1st upper spoke to the right of the valve hole (top side of hub) was always head up in the hub and swung to the left (counter clock wise). It looks like your pattern is right but your 1st spoke is head down. It should make little difference in strength, but if you look at a original untouched Schwinn wheel they are laced the way I was taught. Also the last cross (furthest from the hub) should be under-laced to the spoke it crosses.
> If you look at a rear wheel, the driven direction (of the sprocket) the CCW spoke (head up) has a straighter path to the rim and this theoretically is a stronger wheel.




Thanks for posting that. What period did you work for them in? I'll have to look at the wheels I recently relaced for a Schwinn and see if that spoke is head up or not.

I underlace the last cross because I learned lacing from some book in the 70s. I never knew Schwinn advocated that.


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## Mondo (Mar 19, 2021)

bloo said:


> Thanks for posting that. What period did you work for them in? I'll have to look at the wheels I recently relaced for a Schwinn and see if that spoke is head up or not.
> 
> I underlace the last cross because I learned lacing from some book in the 70s. I never knew Schwinn advocated that.



Every Schwinn S2 I’ve seen so far doesn’t have the under lace on the last cross.


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## Bendix (Mar 19, 2021)

Mondo said:


> Every Schwinn S2 I’ve seen so far doesn’t have the under lace on the last cross.




I most often see old Schwinns not literally 'crossed'. Always throws me for a loop when I replace one spoke the 'now-normal' way! 

Would have been hard for the old-time Schwinn School guys to have wheel lacing races if they had to overlap them. 

FWIW several years ago Mavic laced a bunch of neutral support wheels different ways in regards to 'leading'/'trailing'/symmetrical/asymmetrical/etc and found no practical difference in strength. 

If you want to drive yourself insane with arcane wheel building minutiae that doesn't really apply here visit www.wheelfanatyk.com. Oddly enough there is also a link there to what I consider the best beginning wheel building tutorial- from Bicycling magazine in the 80s, written by Eric Hjertberg of Wheelsmith. That was the first one that made sense to me, before that I tried following the instructions in the old Eugene Sloane book and ended up with a rim and mass of spokes that looked like a Russian sattelite!


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## Mondo (Mar 19, 2021)

Bendix said:


> I most often see old Schwinns not literally 'crossed'. Always throws me for a loop when I replace one spoke the 'now-normal' way!
> 
> Would have been hard for the old-time Schwinn School guys to have wheel lacing races if they had to overlap them.
> 
> ...



You make a good point there, and thanks for your input.


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## Vicious Cycle (Mar 20, 2021)

Mondo said:


> Every Schwinn S2 I’ve seen so far doesn’t have the under lace on the last cross.



OOOP's, I stand corrected, S-2 was not under-laced,  I learned on 27" wheels (Varsity Continental Paramount ) , they are under-laced. Everything else I mentioned apply's to most Schwinn wheels.


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## Rivnut (Mar 20, 2021)

Here are some pictures of different S7 rims with different lacings.
An original 3 cross. The spoke with the yellow marker crosses over the three spokes with the orange markers.









This is a wheel that I relaced. 3 crosses. Over, over, under










Here's a factory 4 cross. Over, over, over, under









The 3 cross uses a 10-5/8” (269 mm) spoke. The 4 cross uses a 10-15/16” (279 mm) spoke

Hope this helps


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Mar 20, 2021)

Rivnut said:


> Here are some pictures of different S7 rims with different lacings.
> An original 3 cross. The spoke with the yellow marker crosses over the three spokes with the orange markers.
> View attachment 1376460
> 
> ...




You are awesome that is fantastic, thank you


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## WES PINCHOT (Mar 20, 2021)

MY TWO CENTS!
10 5/8 INCH SPOKES!
4 CROSS OVER ON S-2'S.
3 CROSS OVER ON S-7'S.


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## 84Tigers (Jul 29, 2021)

GTs58 said:


> The old S-2's were laced 4 cross with 269 mm spokes. My eyes are tired, and I'm having a hard time following that pattern.



How generic is this statement?  I have a black wide flange hub off from my Schwinn Scrambler that I want to lace up to a 1978 set up 26" S2 off from a spitfire 5 for the front and the same Bendix 76 shown above for the rear.  When I plug all of the values into the spoke length calculator it gives me a bunch of gibberish.


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## Boris (Jul 29, 2021)

Looks good to me. and you don't have spokes criss-crossing over the valve stem hole, which is a good thing because you won't have trouble accessing the stem when you go to put air in the tube.


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