# 56 Phantom Exploded in our garage



## Tristahn (Jun 4, 2020)

I am starting a new thread for the father son project now that we have properly identified the bike.  The dropout ID reads - V01684 which translates to a 2/13/56 manufacture date.  There are a slew of 1969's stamped on various parts and I'm not sure why and E496 is hand stamped on the lower BB.  I will attach some photos and welcome the groups feedback to a few questions.
It looks like someone did a very poor job of repainting this bike which means I probably need to strip it and repaint the thing, correct?  Sandbalst or stripper? Decals?
Crome pieces are pretty bad, especially the wheels and fenders, re-chrome them or just buy new pieces off eBay?
Rear coaster brake has a lot of slop, I'm not sure it's functioning correctly, probably why there were two other ones in the box.  Do I send the original out to be rebuilt or buy another one on eBay?  The two in the box are not period correct.
In the box there is a bunch of Schwinn light kit stuff, I just have no idea if I have all the parts to make it work.
By the way is that cork in my bar ends?


----------



## Tristahn (Jun 4, 2020)

More pics


----------



## Freqman1 (Jun 4, 2020)

Some of those parts are not for that bike e.g. pie guards. Rebuild the hub yourself--they are simple. It doesn't look like you have the correct fenders, seat, or stem. It depends on how accurate you want to be but you can get these parts repo or spend big money to have original stuff restored. I'd dig that crap out of the bars, blast the frame, and get ready for about a $1000 chrome bill. Hopefully you are capable of doing an accurate, quality paint job or that could be another $1k. Do not use that chrome fork. Looks like a good project for a father/son just keep in mind there is no pot of gold at the end of this rainbow other than the time spent with your son and the satisfaction of returning this bike to the road. Good luck. V/r Shawn


----------



## Oilit (Jun 4, 2020)

Tristahn said:


> More pics
> 
> View attachment 1205137
> 
> ...



Rechroming gets expensive, and you need solid parts to start with. To get a polished finish, the metal has to be polished smooth before plating, and if it has rust pits, they're either going to have to leave them or grind the surface down to clean them up. If it's just surface rust, you're o.k., but if it's worse than that, you probably want to look for better parts.


----------



## Jeff54 (Jun 4, 2020)

I Can see you're in a pickle trying to figure what's what in this puzzle pile. Basically @[U]Freqman1[/U] is correct. U do have most of the parts though. IDK what fenders ya got, but, the brackets appear to be Schwinn, maybe same bike the 69 sprocket and seat post clamp  came off of and a middle weight set verses heavy.. For your year most had the same smaller size as it and some have what is usually called but is on other models, 'The Phantom sprocket' which is larger, 52 tooth. And from about 1955 your springer changed, it's called "New style'. That makes things a bit tougher, getting the right fenders of it. The 'Old Style' which was reopped in 1995 is the pre-1955 and will not mount on Post 55  springer forks. I Hear that they were also reppoed in 95 but never seen any. Except another version with plastic light cover but no bucket for for light, rather, the plastic is flat can be mounted to any fender. Those fenders with plastic light cover can be wide enough, mount on your springer, and they built a little narrower sets too. So, that's tricky. It's not too hard to find a used rear fender as they're the same, but 'New Style post 55 too 59 front, used, is not easy. 

Rear rim is correct. Not as simple break apart and clean as a Bendix but, there's plenty instructions on net, for new departure,  it's not too difficult. Your front rim looks like the spokes are wider than rear. If so, Maybe, just maybe those fenders, and sprocket are off of a 69 Schwinn 'Heavy duty', otherwise it's a late 70's too 81 rim from a Schwinn Cruiser. 'If, they're fatter than your original rear rim, "If".  both will have a stamp near the valve hole and say S2. If front says S7 and spokes are fatter then it's from a Heavy-duty.

If money is an issue you don't dare repainting it B/C very few 'experts' can even get it right and not a chance in H are ya gonna come close. your 'collectible value' will hardly go up, if at all rather,  be about the same if you didn't B/C most collectors can spot it a 1/4 mile away. I mean, it's easy to get the red and black close but only a very, very few ever get them right and  the pin stripes are  much harder even fpr a pro  custom auto stripper to nail em correct. Not to leave out, of the reasons original paint is better is; it's baked and hardly any paints you can buy will be as hard, consequently, chips easy. 

Try some goof-off carefully and see how much original paint and pin strips you can get to come back and go from there. 

That receipt by Dan, is probably bicyclebones at ebay IDK if he's got the fenders ya need but do know the complete  sets he sells are not post 1955 so, front will not mount correctly without modifications. , yet, he should know the difference. 

You got plenty money in parts old and repop and most of what's not correct is mainly extra junk from a different bike  U gonna have packed in storage forever. Your Chain guard decal is B F Good rich and if  original then the badge should say it too. I Think there's a ghost hint under the Schwinn letters. However your tank should be black and so to the badge. You might be able to get that rattle can ((spray paint) off with goof and reveal the chain guard's Black Phantom decal under it, 'maybe'.


----------



## vincev (Jun 4, 2020)

I would first get rid of the parts that dont belong to the bike. Now see if you hve  complete bike.If not then get the correct missing parts.Before ya buy the correct parts decide how the finished bike is going to look.Buying a nice new shiny part looks out of place on a crusty bike and you can get the crusty piece cheaper than the shiny new one. Have a plan before you just dive in.


----------



## Tristahn (Jun 4, 2020)

vincev said:


> I would first get rid of the parts that dont belong to the bike. Now see if you hve  complete bike.If not then get the correcy missing parts.Before ya buy the correct parts decide how the finished bike is going to look.Buying a nice new shiny part looks out of place on a crusty bike and you can get the crusty piece cheaper than the shiny new one. Have a plan before you just dive in.



Amen


----------



## Tristahn (Jun 4, 2020)

Jeff54 said:


> I Can see you're in a pickle trying to figure what's what in this puzzle pile. Basically @[U]Freqman1[/U] is correct. U do have most of the parts though. IDK what fenders ya got, but, the brackets appear to be Schwinn, maybe same bike the 69 sprocket and seat post clamp  came off of and a middle weight set verses heavy.. For your year most had the same smaller size as it and some have what is usually called but is on other models, 'The Phantom sprocket' which is larger, 52 tooth. And from about 1955 your springer changed, it's called "New style'. That makes things a bit tougher, getting the right fenders of it. The 'Old Style' which was reopped in 1995 is the pre-1955 and will not mount on Post 55  springer forks. I Hear that they were also reppoed in 95 but never seen any. Except another version with plastic light cover but no bucket for for light, rather, the plastic is flat can be mounted to any fender. Those fenders with plastic light cover can be wide enough, mount on your springer, and they built a little narrower sets too. So, that's tricky. It's not too hard to find a used rear fender as they're the same, but 'New Style post 55 too 59 front, used, is not easy.
> 
> Rear rim is correct. Not as simple break apart and clean as a Bendix but, there's plenty instructions on net, for new departure,  it's not too difficult. Your front rim looks like the spokes are wider than rear. If so, Maybe, just maybe those fenders, and sprocket are off of a 69 Schwinn 'Heavy duty', otherwise it's a late 70's too 81 rim from a Schwinn Cruiser. 'If, they're fatter than your original rear rim, "If".  both will have a stamp near the valve hole and say S2. If front says S7 and spokes are fatter then it's from a Heavy-duty.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the feedback and this box of parts was certainly a mess to go through.  I love the idea of using some goof off to archaeologically remove the layers of poor restoration.


----------



## Tristahn (Jun 4, 2020)

Oilit said:


> Rechroming gets expensive, and you need solid parts to start with. To get a polished finish, the metal has to be polished smooth before plating, and if it has rust pits, they're either going to have to leave them or grind the surface down to clean them up. If it's just surface rust, you're o.k., but if it's worse than that, you probably want to look for better parts.



What are your feelings on stripping and smoothing to bare metal (Muriatic Acid HCl) and using chrome paint on things like the spring which are prone to flex?


----------



## bricycle (Jun 4, 2020)

If you so desire, I believe I still have a pretty nice 1959? springer fork (from a BP) I never used, and a more suitable saddle. reasonable... or say $165 shipped for both, domestic only


----------



## Oilit (Jun 4, 2020)

Tristahn said:


> What are your feelings on stripping and smoothing to bare metal (Muriatic Acid HCl) and using chrome paint on things like the spring which are prone to flex?



I've never tried chrome paint myself, but Jay Leno showed one that he said worked pretty well. It's worth a try, and if you aren't happy with the results you can always try something else. I was looking for the original video but according to this link it's no longer available.








						Watch Jay Leno's Garage: The Digital Series Web Exclusive: Spray-On Chrome - NBC.com
					

Watch Jay Leno's Garage: The Digital Series web exclusive 'Spray-On Chrome' on NBC.com




					www.nbc.com


----------



## Jeff54 (Jun 4, 2020)

Tristahn said:


> What are your feelings on stripping and smoothing to bare metal (Muriatic Acid HCl) and using chrome paint on things like the spring which are prone to flex?



Another good thing about older Schwinn chrome is their plating was about the best than any other manufacture. . For starters  and or trial run, get ya a piece of aluminum foil, dip in water and elbow grease, rub it as it gets gray/brown and begins dissolve the rust. . It also fills a bit of the pitting. You may be surprised on how much rust will come out and brighten em up.   Each rim will have a worst area. If rear leaked oil while sitting for years, it'll be better than front. But, you'll not find rims easily that has no storage issues where both sat, collected dust, water, moisture etc and eventually leave an area permanently marking where it sat all that time. Not unless you fork out premium cash. Re-plated rims don't come out well, you'll lose the luster and sparkle you get from center kurdling, lines that  get badly rusted,  ground down or filled in.

But whether you clean as is, home paint it or get Half butt painter, does not need new looking chrome. Rather just good enough to match paint  it as it is, plenty wear.

Once you get it cleaned up, put back together, you might want to up grade, like the frame, and recapture some money selling the old. Keep up grading reselling old parts, in time, you get plenty nice old bike. BTW  infin U ready to began., @bricycle , especially if his saddle is a deluxe for phantom and others from the 50's, and a nice springer,  is offering ya a pretty good deal.


----------



## Freqman1 (Jun 4, 2020)

I'd stay away from the chrome paint for a few reasons. First the good stuff is expensive, secondly it takes a little skill to apply correctly, lastly it still doesn't look as good as real chrome. Either clean what you have, buy better, or re-chrome. Like the others said you'd be really surprised how this stuff cleans up sometimes. V/r Shawn


----------



## BFGforme (Jun 4, 2020)

If you use tin foil to try to clean up the chrome, don't use water as it will just rust worse, instead use windex which is a good lubricant and won't make the rust worse!


----------



## Notagamerguy (Jun 4, 2020)

If you are stripping the other paint off and trying to keep the orginal paint i would recommend using citri strip. i just used it on a 63 panther and i came out very well. If you have a question or want some tip about it feel free to private me. This may not work for you because you dont have the correct fenders but if you media blast the fender and  go over with a clear coat it give you a very clean uniform mat finish that goes nicely with more rustic looking bikes.


----------



## Tristahn (Jun 4, 2020)

I have never heard of using tin foil to remove rust.  I was prepared to use 00 steel wool or scotch Bright but this sound intriguing and I'm game.  The Citri strip, I believe we have, my wife used it to strip cabinets so that sounds like a plan for the weekend as well.  Thanks for the advice on the rear hub, I will have to investigate further.  The fenders don't seem right, I see no way for the lights to attach to them without drilling holes.  I believe that's what you guys are referring to when you say I need different ones.

Bricycle - This seat is a duct taped hot mess, text me some pics 602-697-5223.  I really like the brown saddle, it looks so awesome on these.  Something didn't seem right with the front springer fork it has an upward angle to the spring where I believe it's supposed to sit more level.  It seems like the fork attachment should be longer to make it sit higher.


----------



## bricycle (Jun 5, 2020)

Tristahn said:


> I have never heard of using tin foil to remove rust.  I was prepared to use 00 steel wool or scotch Bright but this sound intriguing and I'm game.  The Citri strip, I believe we have, my wife used it to strip cabinets so that sounds like a plan for the weekend as well.  Thanks for the advice on the rear hub, I will have to investigate further.  The fenders don't seem right, I see no way for the lights to attach to them without drilling holes.  I believe that's what you guys are referring to when you say I need different ones.
> 
> Bricycle - This seat is a duct taped hot mess, text me some pics 602-697-5223.  I really like the brown saddle, it looks so awesome on these.  Something didn't seem right with the front springer fork it has an upward angle to the spring where I believe it's supposed to sit more level.  It seems like the fork attachment should be longer to make it sit higher.



Will tonight....


----------



## Notagamerguy (Jun 5, 2020)

0000 steel wool works best for light surface rust without harming the metal. Tin foilworks great for heavyer rust


----------



## Tristahn (Jun 11, 2020)

Update - I bought a seat and fork set from bricycle.  The rear coaster brake was disassembled and I could immediately see the problem which I fixed with some extra parts from another New Departure brake that was in the box.  Jeff54 was right and I am shocked at the quality of this old chrome.  I began with a scotch brite wheel and will soon throw them against the polishing wheel but holy cow this stuff cleans up amazingly well.  I am sharing some pics below to see the progress.  A few other items:

vincev mentioned some of these parts are not for this bike and he is correct.  Although the front wheel has the serrations on the rim like a Schwinn, it is not a schwinn front wheel.  I am able to clean it up and make it look great and functional BUT it's not original nor is it Schwinn.  What do I do here?  Really only someone who knows their stuff would probably bust us on that.  We will enjoy the bike but we plan to sell it in in a year or so.

Spokes - One by one we are sanding the rust off individual spokes, is it a problem if we just bought new ones?  Just curious.

Polishing - I love the clean and polished look of these chrome and steel parts but am I the only one?  Should these have more of a bare metal look to them and not such a beautiful high luster?

The frame - Ugh this one makes me nervous as it's such a hot mess of possibly a rattle can job AND somebody attempting to draw the pinstripe accents with a paint brush.  I am thinking goof-off on a rag and just slowly wiping away parts of the frame to see if I can go back in time to the original baked tin factory layer.  Is this the best approach?

Thanks for the help CABEers.


----------



## GTs58 (Jun 11, 2020)

Since the wheels are torn down I'd do new spokes along with getting another matching Schwinn S-2 rim. I'm all for really shiny bright parts but that may stick out like a sore thumb depending on the final outcome of the paint situation. Ahh heck, shine it up to the best it can be.  lol 
I remember seeing some kind of decal or sticker on the seat tube that was painted over. Was it a lick n stick on thing or something that's going to be a pain to remove? Not sure if Goof Off is the best thing for removing the rattle can paint but give it a shot. Have fun!


----------



## Tristahn (Jun 11, 2020)

GTs58 - I think you are from AZ as well.  You got a good spot to find a front wheel?  I say wheel because the rim, hub and spokes are not correct.  I see spokes on eBay and I see rims called Reproduction S-2 Rims.  I don't think that's what I want.  There's a rusty set of wheels I could spring for but I figure I should check with you first.


----------



## GTs58 (Jun 12, 2020)

Tristahn said:


> GTs58 - I think you are from AZ as well.  You got a good spot to find a front wheel?  I say wheel because the rim, hub and spokes are not correct.  I see spokes on eBay and I see rims called Reproduction S-2 Rims.  I don't think that's what I want.  There's a rusty set of wheels I could spring for but I figure I should check with you first.




Unfortunately I have no good source for parts here locally. Just Craigslist and offer up and that sometimes works out with a cheap donor bike with a few parts needed. If I remember right @Mark Johnston here in town had a set of wheels for sale not to long ago but they were black. He might have something that will work. I focus mostly on 50's and very early 60's middleweights so my Balloon parts pile is pretty bare.


----------



## Tristahn (Jun 19, 2020)

Look what we have here...  It is by no way Smithsonian worthy but a light rub of the surface with Goof Off removed the black overspray paint.  Getting closer, just need an S2 front wheel and hub.


----------



## GTs58 (Jun 19, 2020)

It really is a Phantom!  

Maybe post in the Wanted section for the front wheel set. Center stamped S-2 with the Schwinn script hub. Seems all the wheels have sold in parts section and nothing is available here locally that I can find.


----------



## Tristahn (Jun 19, 2020)

GTs58 said:


> It really is a Phantom!
> 
> Maybe post in the Wanted section for the front wheel set. Center stamped S-2 with the Schwinn script hub. Seems all the wheels have sold in parts section and nothing is available here locally that I can find.



Bricycle has been awesome.  Sourced me the legit brown seat, and is also sending me an S2 Wheel and script hub.  I'm thinking this thing may be done come July.


----------



## keithsbikes (Jun 19, 2020)

A project like this, I might build the best way I can but with what I have, cleaning but no painting. If parts aren’t correct but fit and look okay, just use them. Then see how the bike rides. If frame or fork are bent at all and bike pulls or doesn’t ride well, I have a whole different feeling about it. On the other hand it may ride like a dream. Then I’m motivated to gradually upgrade parts as needed. The last thing would be to paint and chrome - and cheaper to find a nicer bike to start with. 
I like the way the frame and tank look now - folk art!


----------

