# Anyone heard of a Super Eminent??



## The Junkologist (Jan 24, 2009)

I just picked up this bike with "Super Eminent" on the chainring. The bike has the metal clad wood rims for 28" tubular tires. The head badge is missing. If anyone can shed some light on this bike, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!


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## redline1968 (Jan 25, 2009)

put it on epay. you'll find out.


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## The Junkologist (Jan 25, 2009)

*Here's some photos*

I've figured out that this is a Roadmaster. It has the remnants of a decal where the head badge would normally be. After seeing a Roadmaster head badge, I can tell that it's a decal that is identical to the badge. The screw holes are there for a badge, but they are filled with the original paint. It also has pedals with original wooden blocks instead of hard rubber. I've never seen that before, but I don't have years of experience with antique bikes either. Would those pedals place it in a specific time period? 

I can't seem to find a photo of a Roadmaster with 28" metal clad wood wheels. Did such an animal exist, or do I have something that was pieced together years ago? It all looks original to me. I'm thinking it's early 1930's.


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## RMS37 (Jan 25, 2009)

I wish I could examine this frame more closely.

I have not seen the Super Eminant stamping on a chain ring before but the pattern is a common one used by Westfield Manufacturing.

CWC did offer 28? single tube and 27? clincher equipped bicycles in 1936. 
From the pictures though, the bike looks more like it was meant for balloon wheels.

But... the frame in the picture does not have characteristics of a CWC factory produced frame; it more closely resembles a double bar Schwinn roadster frame. From what I can see the remainder of the paint darts on the frame look like the stenciled darts used on Schwinn C model frames in 1936 and 1937. I can?t tell from the pictures what the exact configuration of the seat stay-fender bridge is. That area is one of the best details for frame identification.

To add a bit of mystery to it all, there is a story in the Hobby that Cleveland Welding announced a line of bicycles before they were actually ready to go to market in 1934 or 1935. As a stop-gap measure Schwinn supposedly was brought in to build frames or bicycles for CWC so they could get product to market. 

I have not yet come across a CWC bike that substantiates this story. The problem connecting this frame to the story is that the Schwinn double bar roadster and those paint darts were not in production until well after CWC was up and running at their own factory. 

On the other hand the decal on the head tube begs for an explanation. I have not seen a decal version of the Roadmaster headbadge so the idea that it was just a handy replacement for a lost headbadge is questionable. On the other hand if the decal was meant to be placed on the bike why would the frame have been drilled for a headbadge in the first place?

If you could post some pictures of the crank hanger and serial number, the seat stay/fender bridge juncture, and a complete view of the darts on the top tubes; perhaps the origin and meaning of this bike could be pinned down further.

Thanks

Phil


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## The Junkologist (Jan 25, 2009)

*More photos*

Here's the photos you requested. The serial number is M9015. This sounds like it may be a pretty interesting bike. Thanks for the info so far.

On the decal thing. Do you suppose that if Schwinn produced the frame, it could have been drilled for a Schwinn badge and since CWC was behind schedule, they just put easily produced decals on the bikes because the head badges weren't ready to go. The drill holes aren't even spaced right for a Roadmaster badge.


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## The Junkologist (Jan 26, 2009)

Two other things I'd like to add.
The rear hub is a ND model C. I think I read somewhere that the model D came out in 1933. Is that right??
I also saw a prewar Schwinn head badge on eBay and it said that the screw holes were 2-3/16" apart. The drill holes on this frame are the same distance apart. Like I said before, the holes were painted over and then the Roadmaster decal was applied.

This is the best part of fooling around with this junk! The detective work.


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## RMS37 (Jan 26, 2009)

I agree that a lot of the fascination and fun in this hobby is involved in trying to unravel the facts behind the who, what and when of bicycle production,

Here are my thoughts on your frame at this point.

I believe what you have is an assemblage of parts from several bicycles. The frame appears to be early balloon era, likely between 1935 and 1939. A New Departure Model C hub would predate the period of the frame so I believe the single tube wheels with the bike are not likely original to the frame. Still the bike may have originally had 28? single tube wheels (more on that below.)

The fork is a forged strap fork which is likely not earlier than 1937 so it may be later than the frame. 

Obviously the rack is also a later addition.

The pattern of the chain ring is generally attributed to Westfield Manufacturing but the frame is not in a pattern that Westfield is known to have produced.

Discounting the directions that all of those roads lead; we are left with the frame, its serial number, and the Roadmaster decal.

*Paint Questions? *

After studying the photos I have the following questions regarding the paint.

Was the bike originally black with a white head and darts?

Is the maroon a repaint (factory or otherwise) over the black?

Is the green a third repaint only over the head?

Which layer of paint is the Roadmaster decal on top of?

*The Frame and Serial number*

Back to the frame; the serial number does not relate to the sequences I have found on CWC frames. The frame also doesn?t look like a CWC produced frame considering the seat cluster, the fender bridge and stays, and the dropouts among other things.

*Schwinn Built?*

Considering the other manufacturers known to have made frames in the ?rainbow pattern? your frame reminds me most of a Schwinn frame (I am not a Schwinn expert) In addition to the badge hole spacing, the seat clamp looks similar to the early style 1935 double diamond Schwinn clamp and the drop outs also look like Schwinn. The stay configuration is not as pinched as I would expect it to be but this may denote a frame designed for 28? single tube wheels. The stenciled darts in their fullness are not the regular C model pattern but they have a similarity to other dart patterns used by Schwinn. 

Regarding the serial number as it relates to possible Schwinn origin, eljwheels posted this information about early Schwinn serial numbers 

The serial # format changes in 1936 from 6 numerals to 1 letter and 4 numerals.
I have a B10 from 1936, (serial# W5576) which is the last year they seem to show up in catalog.

This is excerpted from: 
http://www.thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3563&highlight=Schwinn+b10e
where there are also pictures of Schwinn bottom brackets and serial numbers.

*Date conclusions*

If the frame is a Schwinn frame the seat clamp suggests early 1935, the serial number suggests early 1936, and the rainbow frame configuration suggests 1936-1938.


*CWC by Schwinn?*

If Schwinn sold CWC surplus frames I would expect them to be standard Schwinn frames that were possibly repainted and decaled for CWC so the explanation of the covered badge holes is a reasonable possibility in that scenario. 

If CWC special ordered frames then the possibility of them being unlike standard Schwinn frames would increase while the likelihood of extraneous holes would decrease. Since Schwinn did produce frames badged and drilled in more than one configuration I wouldn?t expect that their head tubes were predrilled before frame assembly.

The key point of attributing it to being a pre Cleveland Welding Roadmaster frame (if such a thing exists) would be that it should be dateable to late 1934 through mid 1935. Much of the evidence at this point makes placing the frames production (if by Schwinn) possible but not conclusive.

Hopefully a resident Schwinn person will weigh in with their opinion or someone else will fight their way through this post and bring something else to light.

Phil


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## The Junkologist (Jan 26, 2009)

Thanks for all the info, Phil! You seem to be a walking bicycle encyclopedia, or should I say "pedaling". 

I gave the paint a closer look, and yes, it seems like the bike was black with the head tube being white with white points leading down the frame tubes. 

The maroon paint, which I believe is just age darkened red paint, is on top of the black. 

The green paint on the head was applied in a rather sloppy fashion, but it is definitely under the decal. I do see evidence of white under the green.

The only paint that looks unprofessional is the green on the head. It would seem unlikely to me that someone would repaint their bike themselves and put those blue darts on it. This bike may very well be an assemblage of parts, and if it is, it was done a long time ago. This was not some collector's leftover parts made into a bike.

I really like the look of this frame and will probably just make it into a balloon tire rat bike and save the wood wheels for the next oldie I find.


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