# Help identifying my circa 1900 Motorcycle built out of an old Tandem



## Jkoller1 (Mar 17, 2017)

I know this is motorcycle related... but I'm hoping you guys can help. I've been trying to determine the builder of this early motorcycle for almost 20 years now. I believe it to be a "jobber" build or one by a machinist and blacksmith for himself. 

I'm hoping you guys might be able to help me ID the frame, or what's left of the old courting tandem that it's built out of. I know it's a slim chance, but I figure it's worth a shot. It uses a fauber hangar and sprocket, and I believe there is the number 654 stamped on the bottom of the hangar. There may be more, but it's obstructed by an extra support for the engine 

I believe it to have been built in the St Louis area, possibly Alton Illinois if that  helps in any way? 

I believe they used the front habger and frame section from the girls portion of the frame, and then used the original front bicycle fork to make the upper section of the rear frame. The rest appears to be home made... and quite beautifully I might add. 

Thanks in advance!

Johnny


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## bricycle (Mar 17, 2017)

Yummy!
Welcome to the CABE!
try thehugheseum on here, he may know...
Save yourself the worry of tracking down information... just sell to me....


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## Jkoller1 (Mar 17, 2017)

Here are a few more pictures.


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## barracuda (Mar 17, 2017)

There's a large and very knowledgable Facebook group that may be able to assist your ID on this bitchen machine:

Motorcycles 1867-1930

https://www.facebook.com/groups/654324954604252/


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## Jkoller1 (Mar 18, 2017)

barracuda said:


> There's a large and very knowledgable Facebook group that may be able to assist your i.d. on this bitchen machine:
> 
> Motorcycles 1867-1930
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/654324954604252/




Yeah I belong to that one, really sharp guys. I figured out its made with a set of engine castings that a guy named Harry R Geer in St Louis bought wholesale from Glenn Curtiss and resold as his own engine called the Little Giant. 

I would just love to figure out what brand of bicycle the guy started with when he built it. The patent dates on the sprocket are 1898 so I have to figure it's probably 1898-1905 or so?


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## barracuda (Mar 18, 2017)

As far as I know, that distinctive Sager-type front springer came into use in 1902 - 1905, and was featured on early Indians of that period.


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## Jkoller1 (Jul 28, 2017)

Bumping this one back to the top...


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## bikejunk (Jul 28, 2017)

Not seeing how this started as as courting tandem with that solid top tube --I am thinking this is built with a series of stock lugs just for this bike - quiet a few one offs followed the very early European long wheel base designs     years ag I had a like period bike that was carved out of a tandem =this bike is a lot more of a talented build


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## Ed Minas (Jul 28, 2017)

That is tasty.  Would love to see it running.


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## Cowboy in NC (Jul 28, 2017)

Jkoller1 said:


> Here are a few more pictures.
> View attachment 437184 View attachment 437188 View attachment 437187 View attachment 437190 View attachment 437185 View attachment 437186 View attachment 437189



Sorry, couldn`t find the LOVE BUTTON---But I Love it... Fantastic Machine !!! You Lucky Joker... Tell us about how you found it...------Cowboy


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## Clayton (Aug 8, 2017)

Cowboy in NC said:


> Sorry, couldn`t find the LOVE BUTTON---But I Love it... Fantastic Machine !!! You Lucky Joker... Tell us about how you found it...------Cowboy



I have seen a picture 


Jkoller1 said:


> Bumping this one back to the top...



I have seen a picture of a tandem with a motor from right around 1900 by Patee Mfg , Peoria ,ill
Would like to talk to you about your bike,. Oly1212@msn.com


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## Jkoller1 (Jan 18, 2018)

I'm back on the hunt for more information on this oddball homebuilt motorcycle project. I did some handiwork on Ms Paint to help clarify exactly what I was hoping you guys may be able to help me with. 

I assume this dotted line section began life as a courting tandem? Combination tandem? Is that the correct nomenclature? I assume that this was the front/women's half of one of these tandems just based upon the capped off section of frame tubing just above the pedal hangars, as well as the use of the Fauber eccentric hangar with a fixed rear wheel, assuming that it would have been necessary to adjust the tension on the front chain section.

I realize it's very very little to go off of. I'm hoping that someone might recognize the particular shape of these tubes as they don't seem to have been kinked or bent. My star sprocket has a patent date of 1898 and I think the pedal crank shows 1893? its hard to tell because of corrosion. 

My other hope is someone may recognize the shape of the front bicycle fork, which i believe was used to make the upper rear frame section... I havent seen one with a nut on it like this. Is that common? I'm new to antique bicycles.


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## rustNspokes (Jan 18, 2018)

The seat-stay crown with the hex at the bottom could have been a rear steering tandem item.


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## Rambler (Jan 18, 2018)

Jkoller1 said:


> I assume this dotted line section began life as a courting tandem? Combination tandem? Is that the correct nomenclature? I assume that this was the front/women's half of one of these tandems just based upon the capped off section of frame tubing just above the pedal hangars, as well as the use of the Fauber eccentric hangar with a fixed rear wheel, assuming that it would have been necessary to adjust the tension on the front chain section.




Jkoller1,
I'm inclined to agree with bikejunk who stated: 







> Not seeing how this started as as courting tandem........I am thinking this is built with a series of stock lugs.....




The eccentric crank on this motorbike is required to adjust the chain tension because it has a fixed rear wheel.  Eccentric cranks were not necessarily exclusive to tandems alone.  Also the capped off lug above the crank is nothing of consequence, I have seen capped off lugs on other bicycles. I'm sure when stock lugs were used to build a frame and a lug could not be found that was exactly perfect for the application a suitable lug would be used and unused end capped off.

In my opinion; Your frame is a work of a skilled frame builder with all those nice curves and joining of tubes. This is not the work of someone repurposing a tandem frame.


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## oldspoke (Jan 18, 2018)

Rambler said:


> Jkoller1,
> I'm inclined to agree with bikejunk who stated:
> 
> The eccentric crank on this motorbike is required to adjust the chain tension because it has a fixed rear wheel.  Eccentric cranks were not necessarily exclusive to tandems alone.  Also the capped off lug above the crank is nothing of consequence, I have seen capped off lugs on other bicycles. I'm sure when stock lugs were used to build a frame and a lug could not be found that was exactly perfect for the application a suitable lug would be used and unused end capped off.
> ...




Hello jkoller1

I would agree with bikejunk and rambler. 

At the time your motor bike was built one could buy all kinds of custom lugs and tubing to create your own design. Many odd machines were tried out.

Here is an unusual tandem that sold at the Copake auction a few years back. Not motorized but well built. Item # 41

http://copakeauction.hibid.com/catalog/22609/april-21--2012-annual-bicycle-auction/?q=tandem


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Jan 19, 2018)

Jkoller1 said:


> Yeah I belong to that one, really sharp guys. I figured out its made with a set of engine castings that a guy named Harry R Geer in St Louis bought wholesale from Glenn Curtiss and resold as his own engine called the Little Giant.
> 
> I would just love to figure out what brand of bicycle the guy started with when he built it. The patent dates on the sprocket are 1898 so I have to figure it's probably 1898-1905 or so?



Looks similar to Fauber crank set


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## gben (Jan 25, 2018)

Curtis stuff is priceless. I wonder if the Curtis museum would like to end up with it someday.


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## skiptooth (Feb 27, 2018)

i have a rear steer tandem 1890's courting frame it has the exact same faber crank and lug set up dated 1894 pat. the adjustable one is in the front location and the rear wheel is adjustable its original you can call me if you have any questions ? Richard....in so.cal 661 822-5733 pst.


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## skiptooth (Feb 28, 2018)

Johnny,I believe there was 1 tandem and possibly 1 early 2 wheel bike that made this happen? I was looking at your pict. today the rear non dropout, was made out of rod heated bent to 65 degree angle then heated again & hammered flat to make the non dropout(both sides) very nicely done ! I can send you pict of the tandem if you want?ccontact me Richard...


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## skiptooth (Mar 6, 2018)

oldspoke; thanks for posting  auction site above ! item #676 was the same as my tandem , but they did not know the maker either, but helpful Richard....


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