# 195??? Phillips 3-Speed.. Questions



## liquidvibe (Aug 4, 2012)

I picked up this bike from a neighbor and am wondering if you all can help me further identify and value it. I'm pretty green when it comes to bikes before 1970 so any help is appreciated. The number on the Sturmey hub is 55 which I think means that it's a 1955 but not entirely sure. I'm wondering what it might be worth as-is or if I should consider restoring it and how much time and money that might involve. My intention is to re-sell it so looking for any advice from more experienced collectors and/or buyers-sellers. Thanks!


----------



## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 4, 2012)

Nice bike, don't see many of those for sale, looks like all the parts are original.

Cleaned and tuned $250-350.


----------



## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 4, 2012)

I should add that would be the price out here.


----------



## liquidvibe (Aug 6, 2012)

1) Any thoughts on whether or not I should try and sell as-is or should I go about cleaning it up and if so should I add new cables and re-grease stuff? Just not sure what vintage bike people would rather have, something cleaned, tuned and ready to ride or something in a mainly un-restored state. 

2) Is there any way to confirm the year or is the number off the Sturmey all I have to go from?

Thanks!


----------



## rhenning (Aug 8, 2012)

If you put money into the bike you will never get it back out.  If your plan is to flip the bike sell it as is.  Roger


----------



## liquidvibe (Aug 8, 2012)

Thanks Roger. That kinda was my thought as well but I wasn't sure if there would be interest in an unrestored version of this bike.


----------



## sailorbenjamin (Aug 8, 2012)

That date looks about right.  Phillips and Raleigh joined up in '59 or so and after that Phillipses look just like Raleighs.  You've got the Phillips style fenders with the unique contour and the recess for the metal logo in the rear fender.  The chainring is cool, too.  There are plenty of other differences if you start looking close.
Try just giving it a cood cleaning.  Buff the paint with lemon oil and then Kitt Scratchout or Mcguires Scratch X.  Rub the chrome and the spokes with some WD40 and some bronze wool (not steel wool, it scratches).  Then step back and see if you like it enough to open up the bearings and stuff.
Does it have the modern style brake cable ends or the old British style with the funny ends?


----------



## liquidvibe (Aug 8, 2012)

EXcellent suggestions, thank you. I will take a look at the brakes and maybe snap a pic. 

I have decided to sell it so if anyone is interested PM me and we can discuss it. I'll likely put an ad on the board after I've cleaned it.


----------



## liquidvibe (Aug 9, 2012)

Forgot to ask this earlier but is this the correct seat for the bike? Doesn't look like it to me but I have no idea. Toying with putting an old Brooks b77 on it but if this is the original seat then I'll probably leave it as is.


----------



## RMS37 (Aug 9, 2012)

That is not a correct seat for the bike. A Brooks would be generally correct and, provided it isn't dried out or torn at the rivets, a substantial upgrade over the seat currently on the bike. I don't think anyone has mentioned that the front fork is clearly bent and needs to be straightened or replaced.


----------



## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 9, 2012)

That's very likely the seat that came with the bike when it was bought.

Those two tone seat were an English thing to do. 

CCM copied it as did some American bikes


----------



## RMS37 (Aug 9, 2012)

I'm reading the seat as gold glitter? and smaller and later that what would be typical for an all black Phillips assumed to be circa 1955. The labeling on the back of the saddle might clear up it's source.


----------



## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 9, 2012)

I goggled Phillips, spent a few minutes, and a couple/ three from that era came up with the two tone seat.

You could get sparkle seats, after market, from that time, my 53 loop frame came with one.

It was bought by the original owner.


----------



## RMS37 (Aug 9, 2012)

Lawrence Ruskin said:


> I goggled Phillips, spent a few minutes, and a couple/ three from that era came up with the two tone seat.
> 
> You could get sparkle seats, after market, from that time, my 53 loop frame came with one.
> 
> It was bought by the original owner.




I bought in and checked to see what came up, of the couple hundred photographs I rolled by the predominant color was black with a small smattering of black and white saddles thrown in. I did see a blue and white saddle on a blue framed girl's model but that did not appear to be a glitter saddle and none had saddles that looked like the one on the bike this thread is about. I'm not interested enough to check out the first year for glitter impregnated vinyl, I imagine it was available by the mid fifties (and we haven't heard from the owner if the saddle is gold or tan.) 

I'm also not clear regarding your claim about the saddle on your bike. Are you saying  you believe the glitter saddle was factory original or that your understanding is that it was an aftermarket  saddle added by the original owner?

My opinion is that even if that saddle is from the same year as the bike, it is not the original factory saddle for that bike, I would need literature to convince me otherwise. And, as I noted earlier, the branding of the saddle may provide an answer to the question.


----------



## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 9, 2012)

having a bit of a problem


----------



## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 9, 2012)

OK that's better.I think you got a picture. The husband of the original owner repainted this bike to please his wife who had a terminal illness.

He told me the seat was stored with the bike for a bunch of years after she stopped riding it as a young woman, so I assumed it was about as old as the bike.

According to the husband, the bike was in good shape befor the repaint, it was redone because the chrome had light rust.


----------



## RMS37 (Aug 9, 2012)

From the photo it look like he did a very nice job repainting the bike. Does that Red Glitter saddle have a manufacturer's tag on the back or any other marks to determine who made it?


----------



## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 9, 2012)

It says Daarco on a tag at the back.


----------



## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 9, 2012)

Yep, I couldn't find anything on Daarco either.

CCM two tone seat


----------



## RMS37 (Aug 9, 2012)

That seems to be a google dead end. Any mention of country of origin on the saddle?


----------



## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 9, 2012)

Nope, It's unuasual to come up with almost nothing on a google. I think though the seat on that Phillips is a two tone English seat, time will tell.


----------



## SirMike1983 (Aug 9, 2012)

It's a Birmingham bike from before they were bought out by Raleigh and taken downscale in the early 1960s. Nice find. Phillips was high quality competition for Raleigh for many years. Finally TI came to own both firms in the early 1960s and turned Phillips into the low cost/economy version of the Raleigh Sports. It's very important to know whether you have a Birmingham (high quality usually) or a Nottingham (budget, lower line) Phillips. This one is a Birmingham.

Most basic Phillips from the '50s came with a Phillips branded black mattress saddle. One common upgrade was to a Brooks B66 type, which would also be correct. The Brooks is the better saddle. The Phillips mattress often had a little tag on the back that said "Phillips", in the fashion you seen a "Brooks" tag on a B66.


----------



## liquidvibe (Aug 10, 2012)

This should clear up the saddle issue.. Definitely NOT the original saddle. I also just realized that Phil mentioned the fork is bent. How hard is that to fix?








Anyone have an idea if these are original brakes? I know the brake pads say made in England


----------



## Lawrence Ruskin (Aug 10, 2012)

You have good eyes, Phil.


----------



## SirMike1983 (Aug 10, 2012)

They look right for Phillips cable brakes based on those photos. Phillips brakes actually became the prototype for a lot of different makers, like older Shimanos. But from what I can see those do look like Phillips brakes. Don't overly concern yourself with finding a Phillips mattress, the Brooks B66 is the better option.


----------



## sailorbenjamin (Aug 10, 2012)

Here's a '59 I flipped a few years back.  I think this is a "Terry" seat.  Might be an early form of vinyl but it looks just like painted canvas.



Here's another;


----------



## liquidvibe (Aug 13, 2012)

I just put it up on Ebay, PM me if you're interested and we can work out the details. Thanks again everyone for all the information and help, definitely appreciate it.

Click here to see the ebay listing


----------



## ricky123 (Sep 6, 2012)

The bike you are talking about is unique because of its past history. You can take it as being made in 1955 and you will benefit by making some restorations.


----------

