# '61 Traveler 23" frame, should I jump at this?



## schwinnlax (May 30, 2019)

Found this on a nearby CL.  I have not worked on a Bendix two speed red band hub before.  I have worked on the manual two speed hub and the yellow band two speed hub.  I found the manual hub much easier to work on.  The automatic hub is much more complicated because of the "kick back" shifting mechanism.  The challenge I had was not so much the complexity, but rather the subtle details, which are not in a manual.   On the 2 speed yellow band, the exact position of the spring tabs was the key issue for the hub working properly.  Only an experienced bike mechanic was able to tell me the proper setting.  The red band has this same spring.  The difference between red and yellow band hubs appears to be in the brake mechanism.

I've been looking for a 23 inch frame Traveler for a couple of years.  They just don't show up.  I'd prefer one from the early/mid '50s with the winged badges, but those are likely exceedingly rare.  Next option would be one from '59-'62 with the fancy gold/red/white/blue decals (which the one on CL has).  These decals really pop on a red bike.  The one on CL is black.  I'd prefer a 3-speed.  So, even though this bike on CL is a black 2-speed, I'm thinking about picking it up because 23" Travelers are really scarce.   The seller also has a three speed '63 Traveler, but by then Schwinn switched to the routine and not very interesting decal set.  Also notice the bikes have a custom stem and incorrect seat.  Both missing the saddle bag, '63 missing the light, '61 looks like light wiring is broken.  Seller has each listed for $160.

Thoughts?  I know I can overhaul the hub (very good local mechanic who is always helpful), but switching it for a 3 speed is not an option, since the fork/frame would not be equipped for caliper brakes.


----------



## PCHiggin (May 30, 2019)

Looks like your search is over? Buy it. Bendix 2 speed kickbacks are easy to fix. Its usually old hard grease and the index spring being worn. You will need a lock nut removal tool. Check out this link....http://www.trfindley.com/pgbndxhbs.html
Heres a lock ring tool.........https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bendix-Coa...4oAAOSwilBZmIBq:sc:USPSFirstClass!48316!US!-1


----------



## Roger Henning (May 30, 2019)

This is my Traveler is basically the same bike but is a 1962 with a 3 speed.  Very nice riding bikes.  Roger


----------



## schwinnlax (May 30, 2019)

Roger Henning said:


> This is my Traveler is basically the same bike but is a 1962 with a 3 speed.  Very nice riding bikes.  Roger
> 
> View attachment 1006555



Yes, I agree Roger, they are really nice bikes.  The top Schwinn three speed from the early '50s through 1966.  My main concern is the two speed hub.  If that bike had a three speed hub, I would have bought it by now since 23" frame lightweights from that era are very scarce.

I had a '66 Panther that had the yellow band kickback.  I put a lot of work into that and adjusted the shifting spring a couple of times.  It worked fine, but in low gear, you could really "feel" the gears.  In Normal, it was fine since no gears are engaged.  It was a bike I thought about keeping, but I did not care for the feel of the hub when riding, so I sold that bike.  It's amazing how much better the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub is.  Maybe the reason Bendix stopped making the two speed hub in 1970?


----------



## Oilit (Jun 3, 2019)

schwinnlax said:


> Found this on a nearby CL.  I have not worked on a Bendix two speed red band hub before.  I have worked on the manual two speed hub and the yellow band two speed hub.  I found the manual hub much easier to work on.  The automatic hub is much more complicated because of the "kick back" shifting mechanism.  The challenge I had was not so much the complexity, but rather the subtle details, which are not in a manual.   On the 2 speed yellow band, the exact position of the spring tabs was the key issue for the hub working properly.  Only an experienced bike mechanic was able to tell me the proper setting.  The red band has this same spring.  The difference between red and yellow band hubs appears to be in the brake mechanism.
> 
> I've been looking for a 23 inch frame Traveler for a couple of years.  They just don't show up.  I'd prefer one from the early/mid '50s with the winged badges, but those are likely exceedingly rare.  Next option would be one from '59-'62 with the fancy gold/red/white/blue decals (which the one on CL has).  These decals really pop on a red bike.  The one on CL is black.  I'd prefer a 3-speed.  So, even though this bike on CL is a black 2-speed, I'm thinking about picking it up because 23" Travelers are really scarce.   The seller also has a three speed '63 Traveler, but by then Schwinn switched to the routine and not very interesting decal set.  Also notice the bikes have a custom stem and incorrect seat.  Both missing the saddle bag, '63 missing the light, '61 looks like light wiring is broken.  Seller has each listed for $160.
> 
> ...



I can't tell from the picture, but I would check the frames before I made any decision. I've seen two speed lightweights that had the hole in the fork and rear bracket for calipers, Schwinn just left them off.


----------



## SirMike1983 (Jun 3, 2019)

The older of those two bikes may have fork and rear bridge holes to allow for calipers. The rear bridge looks like it will take a caliper. The front also looks like it from the pictures. But check to be sure. The older frame appears to be missing mount for the Sturmey Archer pulley boss so you'd need to mount a Sturmey clamp pulley. So I think you are correct that this is a factory 2-speed bike. If the caliper mount holes will work, then it's not too hard to convert it to a three speed. Getting a correct wheel set built is probably the only tricky part. If you don't mind stock steel rims, buying a second set of wheels is probably fastest.

The newer frame has the pulley mount and the calipers already. This appears to be a factory three speed. The saddle is from the 1970s and is not great on the newer bike, but passable. The older bike has the better saddle.

Both saddles are probably better than the stock Schwinn saddles, especially the leather Brooks B66 looking saddle on the older bike. A Brooks will blow away a stock Schwinn saddle any day on these. The stock two-tone Schwinn saddles from this era don't impress me.

The earlier 1950s bikes are a little bit better in terms of having a tubular fork rather than a flat blade fork. The tubular is a little more consistent in my experience, whereas the flat blade tends to have a little more flex when leaning sharply into a turn.

The stem set ups are weird. I'd look at replacing them with stock stems, or at least something that fits better.

Either bike looks good to me at $160. If you have a cushy bike fund, buy both and keep the one you like better. Sell the one you don't care for as much. They'd be borderline if 21 inch frames, but the 23 inch frames are much less common. If you buy both, pursue a package deal discount  if you can get one.

They're generally not hard or too expensive to fix because parts are usually plentiful, perhaps with the exception of period correct calipers and brake levers. The muscle bike crowd has driven prices on brake calipers and levers (especially the levers) up.

https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/p/a-short-field-guide-to-schwinn-3-speed.html


----------



## schwinnlax (Jun 4, 2019)

Thanks for the comments.  I did take some time and look at other pictures of 2 speed Travelers from the early '60s, and it does appear they all have drilled forks and a drilled tube for mounting rear brakes and the rear fender.  So, it appears Schwinn used standard frame/forks for the 3/2/1 speed lightweights, with only the bracket for mounting the 3 speed cable pulley being the difference (which is what's missing from the '61, as Mike mentioned.)  I am tempted to buy both bikes at a discount deal - maybe $250 for the pair.  But, these are a bit of a drive for me, so it will be a matter of when I could get there.  Seller says he has the original seat for the '61 and original stem for both.

These were originally listed for sale on CL in early May, and are still for sale and these are near a major city (maybe not much collector interest?)  As Mike said, 23" frame lightweights are scarce from mid-early 60s, and rare earlier than that (from my 2 years of looking).  When you look at the catalogs, 23" frames were one of the options (along with 19" and 21"), but generally there was a surcharge for the 23" frame.  I assume most bike dealers only provided these as a special order and didn't carry any in stock, or at most just one or two?


----------



## Eric Amlie (Jun 5, 2019)

Another thing missing from the 1-2 speed frame are the cable housing stops under the top tube for the rear caliper brake.
You can run cable housing all the way back, but IMHO, it looks terrible, as with this otherwise fabulous looking bicycle.


----------



## PCHiggin (Jun 5, 2019)

You’ll like the 2 speed, I like it more than a 3 speed. No cables,other than a possible front brake


----------



## SirMike1983 (Jun 5, 2019)

Eric Amlie said:


> Another thing missing from the 1-2 speed frame are the cable housing stops under the top tube for the rear caliper brake.
> You can run cable housing all the way back, but IMHO, it looks terrible, as with this otherwise fabulous looking bicycle.
> 
> View attachment 1010087




The English ran full-length cable housings and it can be made to work and look clean, provided the cable routing is good. There are competing views on whether the open or closed brake cable set up is better. The open potentially reduces friction, but the closed offers more weather protection to the cables. 

The other option is a cable stop clamp and ferrule to substitute for the frame bosses, but I tend to think the closed cable system is a little better than adding more clamps to the frame.

I guess if I had the choice of the two bikes and really wanted a 3-speed, I'd go with the later bike that is already set up. But maybe I'm at the point where I'm doing fewer conversions of bikes to 3-speed these days and more just preservation of what's already there. A package deal on both sounds good. The Bendix 2-speed is a great hub if you're not dealing with big hills. Those Bendix brakes can lock a wheel up tight too.


----------



## schwinnlax (Jun 5, 2019)

Thanks, didn't think about the brake cables.  My '53 Varsity doesn't have any brazed on parts for any of the cables.  Everything is just clamped to the top tube:






Since it is a 21" frame and I'm 6'2", I have to have the seat jacked up a bit.  The Brooks sure is nice, though.  I lean toward your thinking, Mike.  I'm more into preserving than changing things around.  I don't really see myself converting the '61 to a 3 speed.  So, that's probably the dilemma right now.  Don't really need another 23" 3 speed any way, as I have a '59 Racer (black) and '65 Deluxe racer (coppertone, 23" frames).  Found both locally for under $100.









I'm interested in the '61 mostly for the different decals.  I checked the Schwinn catalogs, '62 and earlier a 23" frame was a $2 surcharge.  From '63 forward they were the same price as the 21" and 19" frames.  I can only assume that is one reason tall frames are more common from the mid-60s forward.  I think the 2 speed would be ok.  I do like the clean look (no cables), and that bike has the original light set (missing on the '63).  However, I don't think I'd ride it a lot (already have two tall frame Racers).  I'm weighing that bike against saving my bike $$ for that early '50s Traveler or '40s Continental tall frame - wouldn't that be nice!!!

Mike, thanks for the link to your blogspot.  I found lots of interesting reading there!


----------



## schwinnlax (Jun 5, 2019)

Eric Amlie said:


> Another thing missing from the 1-2 speed frame are the cable housing stops under the top tube for the rear caliper brake.
> You can run cable housing all the way back, but IMHO, it looks terrible, as with this otherwise fabulous looking bicycle.
> 
> View attachment 1010087



That bike has some interesting cable routing.  I'm thinking the clamp-on 3 speed cable stop is missing on the top tube.  The 3 speed cable should go to that cable stop, then the bare cable goes around the cable pulley and down to the hub.  The way it is, the cable pulley is not being used at all, and there is a clamp-on cable stop on the seat stay.  Odd...


----------



## SirMike1983 (Jun 5, 2019)

What you have already is nicer than what is for sale. I think the price is on the higher end, given the missing parts, but if local, I'd probably end up buying the later bike just because I don't have a 23 inch Schwinn 3-speed. I'm down to just one 21 inch New World from the 1940s. The rest are English bikes of various years. I had to really downsize when I moved a few months ago.


----------



## schwinnlax (Jun 5, 2019)

SirMike1983 said:


> What you have already is nicer than what is for sale. I think the price is on the higher end, given the missing parts, but if local, I'd probably end up buying the later bike just because I don't have a 23 inch Schwinn 3-speed. I'm down to just one 21 inch New World from the 1940s. The rest are English bikes of various years. I had to really downsize when I moved a few months ago.



Thanks, and I agree with your assessment.  I'm really only interested in the '61 because of those decals they used only on the Traveler from '59-'62 along with the "starburst" head badge.  Since these bikes are not close, I think I'm going to wait and see.

Sorry you had to downsize so much.  I have one 23" frame Raleigh LTD from early 70s.  Picked it up so that I could ride the ABCE in Minneapolis.  It needed (and received) a total overhaul.  For me, I like the feel of the Schwinns better, but it's just a personal preference.  Also love the Schwinn history - especially the era when F.W. was in charge - that was their pinnacle.


----------



## schwinnlax (Jun 30, 2019)

Ended up buying both bikes Friday.  He came down $20 on each bike.  

Got the ‘63 mostly set up with correct parts.  He had a black/white S seat, but I don’t think this is correct for either bike.  ‘63 catalog shows black single color seat on the Traveler, and I think the ‘61 should have a black/white S seat with a crash rail.  Any insights on this?  He did not have any lights on the ‘63 in the ad, but he did have a Miller double head light generator set that he said came with the bike.  Pretty cool.  Any info on when these were made and if they came on any Schwinn bikes?  These were never shown in the Schwinn catalogs as far as I am aware.  Also think the handle bars are not correct.  They are larger than what is on my ‘59 Racer.  Will post pictures of the ‘61 when I get it set up correct.  Here are some pics of the ‘63.


----------



## schwinnlax (Jul 4, 2019)

Finished setting up the '63.  Now has correct bars.  Light set is date stamped 11/62, likely a dealer upgrade.  Found info on these on the Schwinn Bike Forum.  Decided to put the Wrights seat on this one, don't have a correct original but the Wrights is comfortable.  Should be a good rider.  New brakes & cleaned up.


----------



## Eric Amlie (Jul 5, 2019)

It's too bad that Schwinn didn't make a version of this bike using the fillet brazed chrome moly frame of the Superior/Super Sport.
I love this model, but they are SO heavy!
I have a couple of Super Sport frame sets laying around and have had the idea of making my own out of one of them but haven't gotten a "round tuit" yet.


----------



## Roger Henning (Jul 5, 2019)

If you went into the Paramount line you could get the 3 speed version of a Paramount .  That is what the companies owner rode.  Roger


----------



## schwinnlax (Jul 6, 2019)

Finished the '61 Traveler.  Seat is not correct (should have a crash bar, I believe) but close enough.  Not sure if grips were the "chubby" type or the regular teardrop '60s style.  I had a spare set of chubbys, like those better for riding.


----------



## 49autocycledeluxe (Jul 6, 2019)

these are such cool bikes. I have a 1960 Racer. it was $20.00 and worth every penny. incorrect wheels, rusty handlebars and bad paint. I put S-7's on  it because that was what I had along with some shiny handlebars and stem. I have the small frame and really like the geometry and handling of these bikes. plan on painting it black with the decals some time in the future.


----------



## GTs58 (Jul 6, 2019)

Very nice 61. One of the cool years with that decal package and the star burst badge. The seat might be correct for a newer model, no rivets? but the Traveler didn't have a crash rail. And nothing better than stainless fenders!


----------



## schwinnlax (Jul 6, 2019)

Interesting about the seat.  '61 Catalog picture looks like there is no crash rail.  I just assumed there should be.  The '61 women's Traveler I bought a few years ago has a crash rail seat.  It was a trade-in at the local dealer at some point.  He sold off his collection a few years ago.  I ended up getting several bikes from him.


----------



## GTs58 (Jul 6, 2019)

I don't think the Travels came with a crash rail since they all had the bag attached to the seat.


----------



## schwinnlax (Jul 25, 2019)

Realized the '63 did not have the chrome "crown" at the top of the forks.  Wonder how that went missing?  Anyway, I have a donor '63 Co-Ed I've been harvesting parts off for projects, so I pulled the part from that bike.  Figured it was a good chance to clean up and re-lube the head set bearings.  I serviced the 3 speed hub and front hub last weekend.  Pretty dirty in there and not a lot of lube left, so those were worth while projects.  Pedals were a bit dirty/rusty, but they cleaned up really well in my oxalic acid bath.  All that is left is the crank bearings.  Will get to that next.  It's subtle, but that chrome piece on the forks makes it look right.





In the process of cleaning the head tube parts, I noticed the bearings in the top cage started falling out in the cleaning solution.  Here's what I found:





I've never seen this before.  Can't quite figure out what would make the bearing cage just fall apart like that.  Anyone seen this before?  Any thoughts?

Needless to say I didn't put that back in.  Another part harvested from the Co-Ed.


----------



## Roger Henning (Jul 25, 2019)

When I have seen that it was because sometime in the bikes life someone had used it over time with the headset to loose.  The balls can then try to roll over each other and ruin the cage. Roger


----------



## schwinnlax (Jul 27, 2019)

Roger Henning said:


> When I have seen that it was because sometime in the bikes life someone had used it over time with the headset to loose.  The balls can then try to roll over each other and ruin the cage. Roger



Interesting, thanks for the insight, Roger.


----------

