# Is this a real Harley



## comet (Jan 28, 2020)

. What should I look for when I see it.  What is the value? Thanks.


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## fordmike65 (Jan 28, 2020)

Looks pretty convincing to me. I'll leave it to the experts tho...

@cyclingday
@New Mexico Brant 
@hoofhearted


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## stoney (Jan 28, 2020)

I believe so. Sort of had a maybe yes maybe no till I saw the Motorcyke on the tube. I hope it is for you.


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## cyclingday (Jan 28, 2020)

I would say, to carefully read the entire,
”Show your Davis built bicycle” 
thread at the top of the pre 33 forum.
Lots of really good information there by some of the hobbies finest and most learned.


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## redline1968 (Jan 28, 2020)

Frame numbers would give you help and frame construction too.  Up on the air till then


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## bikewhorder (Jan 28, 2020)

If its not, its an incredibly well done fake.  Painting the red over the green would have been a stroke of genius to throw off collectors.


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## hoofhearted (Jan 28, 2020)

@comet

Thank you for posting this.

comet … is it possible that you are able to use
a different camera and snap a few more pics
of the decal area ?

Whatever it is that is creating that screendoor
imagery is about as welcome as a sidecar on
a wheelchair.

Would like to see the paint layers.

Not believing that red is 'over' the green.
Believe that red is the Davis-type primer.

Although that was a brilliant consideration posted
by @bikewhorder in Entry #6, just above.

And, that 'silver' (could be white) in the decal
may be part of it's 'metallic' feature, with the gold
overlay long gone.

Would also enjoy seeing the stamping-directionality
of any numbers / letters that may appear at the
underside of the crankcase, please.

Thank you .….

….. patric







*EXAMPLE …..Model year 1917 Davis-Built made in 1916 …..*


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## Waffenrad (Jan 28, 2020)

I believe the "screen door imagery" is a moire pattern from taking live photographs of pictures on a computer screen.   If possible it would be better to post original digital photos, or at least proper screen captures.

Something that makes me cautious is that the patina is so even.  There is plenty of evident surface wear, but NO damage and NOTHING missing, and critical things like the head badge are nearly perfect.  Almost too perfect.  I have seen some amazing bikes assembled from parts but made to look "as found."   I don't know how much this one is worth but I'm guessing a lot--maybe enough for someone to have put some serious effort into it.


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## bike (Jan 29, 2020)

What pat said...


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## dfa242 (Jan 29, 2020)

1921 Harley-Davidson Bicycle  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 1921 Harley-Davidson Bicycle at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					rover.ebay.com


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## Freqman1 (Jan 29, 2020)

Bike looks legit. About the only thing I question is the drop stand and the front fender brace was replaced with a homemade piece. You would think for $15k would get more than an eight word description! Would be nice to see the serial number. Strong coin it will be interesting to see if someone pops. V/r Shawn


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## Freqman1 (Jan 29, 2020)

Anyone here know the seller?


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## stoney (Jan 29, 2020)

Not saying this means anything but. I always have a habit when someone is selling something pretty good on Ebay to look at their other items for sale and their completed items. In this case dresses, broken cell phones and parts, new HD license plate frames and poker chips. This makes my mind roam. They got pretty lucky if turns out legit. Bike still looks good to me.


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## bikewhorder (Jan 29, 2020)

The more I look the less convinced I am.  Luckily for me I don't want it so I don't have to worry about it.


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## cyclingday (Jan 29, 2020)

I heard, that an H-D was picked up at the Turlock meet over the weekend.
Yuba City is up that way.
Possibly that bike?
I don’t know.
This picture is interesting. Davis used a “Fishmouth” construction technique to build their frames.




These marks could be innocuous, maybe just remnants of the pinstripes, but if those are the frame joints peeking through, that I doubt that’s a Davis frame.
But, I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me if I’m just seeing things.


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## hoofhearted (Jan 29, 2020)

*Better foto …….*


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## gkeep (Jan 29, 2020)

From looking at the EBay pics it seems the khaki is slapped on over the red, and not done with a lot of prep or that decal would have been damaged by sanding. There is no sign of sanding on the old alligatored red paint and the red seems to have a fair amoutn of wear. I can see some 12 year old just wiping it down and brushing on a thin coat on a sunny afternoon.  If this is a teens bike and the original color was red some young man might have slapped on the khaki during the WWI years to make the bike the real McCoy. Then again, maybe this was done much later during WWII by a kid that wanted a bike in military colors? 

Is it me or does that price seem more appropriate for a mint condition museum bike than a rough barn find? Wish that bike could tell us it's story...cruising the dirt roads along the Yuba River with a cane pole strapped to the frame and a can of night crawlers.


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## bricycle (Jan 29, 2020)

red is over the olive drab


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Jan 29, 2020)

did you really take pictures of your computer screen to post here?


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## catfish (Jan 29, 2020)




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## 49autocycledeluxe (Jan 29, 2020)

so what is it worth?


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## bricycle (Jan 29, 2020)

not what they are asking.


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## kreika (Jan 29, 2020)

I don’t claim to have any expertise in this area but the badge keeps getting my attention. They usually just painted over the whole bike including the badge. I don’t see any residual paint on it at all. I suppose they taped it off? Cool none the less!


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## Frank and Pam Skid Kings (Jan 29, 2020)

Here's my 2 cents ( and believe me all it's worth). I have an original chain ring. This one looks good but a couple red flags. One is the "sharp" (worn?) teeth. Seen that on re-pops. They usually square off more. The other is all the "imperfections" in the letters that the originals have, are present, but look's like filed to produce those imperfections. Also the head badge looks  good, but the inner middle texture looks a little uneven in wear. If somebody did "fake" this bike they went to a lot of trouble, but for fifteen grand they mite have. I have seen vintage Fender guitars that were faked with patina and almost indistinguishable from a $30,000 original. It's a crazy world out there.


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## spomalley86 (Jan 29, 2020)

Here's the underside


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## bricycle (Jan 29, 2020)

looks like primer under the green


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## redline1968 (Jan 29, 2020)

Orig Davis red primer on my 1920..reinforced seat tube..


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## redline1968 (Jan 29, 2020)

Looks like orange paint to me


spomalley86 said:


> Here's the underside
> 
> View attachment 1131648


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## spomalley86 (Jan 29, 2020)

Fb marketplace


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## C M Gerlach (Jan 29, 2020)

Just my 2 cents as I have been working on and staring at one for a few months. It looks legit, but there's some little things that just don't make it feel like 15k, suppose it depends on how much you want one.
I'm having paint envy....looks like sun baked original....just my opinion.
I agree that if its it's fake then good job, but looks more correct than not.


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## BFGforme (Jan 29, 2020)

Hbh would probably pay 20 for it....


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## C M Gerlach (Jan 29, 2020)

For reference....my bb when painted over.


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## hoofhearted (Jan 29, 2020)

@frankandpam 


frankandpam said:


> Here's my 2 cents ( and believe me all it's worth). I have an original chain ring. This one looks good but a couple red flags. One is the "sharp" (worn?) teeth. Seen that on re-pops. They usually square off more. The other is all the "imperfections" in the letters that the originals have, are present, but look's like filed to produce those imperfections. Also the head badge looks  good, but the inner middle texture looks a little uneven in wear. If somebody did "fake" this bike they went to a lot of trouble, but for fifteen grand they mite have. I have seen vintage Fender guitars that were faked with patina and almost indistinguishable from a $30,000 original. It's a crazy world out there.







That ring is authentic ... compare to this other, Ethernet example

..... patric


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## hoofhearted (Jan 29, 2020)




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## hoofhearted (Jan 29, 2020)




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## gkeep (Jan 29, 2020)

Seeing the second frame showing red and blue over khaki make me wonder if the popularity of khaki bikes quickly died after WWI and dealers or the factory repainted frames still in stock with a nice red to appeal to the market? It does seem like the catalogs that show color illustrations often have motorbikes/motobikes/motocykes in red. Nice catchy color for advertising.


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## bricycle (Jan 29, 2020)

gkeep said:


> Seeing the second frame showing red and blue over khaki make me wonder if the popularity of khaki bikes quickly died after WWI and dealers or the factory repainted frames still in stock with a nice red to appeal to the market? It does seem like the catalogs that show color illustrations often have motorbikes/motobikes/motocykes in red. Nice catchy color for advertising.



Nothing against Olive drab green, but I'm guessing after either(any) War, that color was the last thing folks/kids wanted to see... reminded them of a horrible time in their lives... rationing, death, constant war ads, etc...


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## hoofhearted (Jan 29, 2020)

*This is a close-up of the same ''for sale'' H-D bicycle in this thread.*


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## redline1968 (Jan 29, 2020)

Mine davis.... :0..not the merkel effect?


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## redline1968 (Jan 29, 2020)

I have another davis frame that was  sold through another dealer that has its numbers virtually erased like the one for sale


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## stoney (Jan 29, 2020)

gkeep said:


> Seeing the second frame showing red and blue over khaki make me wonder if the popularity of khaki bikes quickly died after WWI and dealers or the factory repainted frames still in stock with a nice red to appeal to the market? It does seem like the catalogs that show color illustrations often have motorbikes/motobikes/motocykes in red. Nice catchy color for advertising.




To me sure looks like the red and the blue over the khaki/olive drab. The teeth on the chain ring just looked like nice worn originals.


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## bikewhorder (Jan 29, 2020)

bricycle said:


> Nothing against Olive drab green, but I'm guessing after either(any) War, that color was the last thing folks/kids wanted to see... reminded them of a horrible time in their lives... rationing, death, constant war ads, etc...



 Good point I never thought of that. it wasn't quite nostalgic yet.


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## prbowden (Apr 8, 2020)

Hello , Now for sale. EBAY.   Check no “Fishmount” 
On frame


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## New Mexico Brant (Apr 9, 2020)

hoofhearted said:


> *This is a close-up of the same ''for sale'' H-D bicycle in this thread.*
> View attachment 1131713





prbowden said:


> Hello , Now for sale. EBAY. Check no “Fishmount”
> On frame



Very good observation @prbowden , Patric Cafaro @hoofhearted has made it his lifetime pursuit to the study Davis built bicycles.  Please note his post number #38 in this thread stating some of the Harley built bicycle have a trumpet (fish) mouth and some do not.  Any theories why this is the case Patric?


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## hoofhearted (Apr 9, 2020)

@New Mexico Brant



New Mexico Brant said:


> Very good observation @prbowden , Patric Cafaro @hoofhearted has made it his lifetime pursuit to study Davis built bicycles.  Please note his post number #38 in this thread stating some of the Harley built bicycle have a trumpet (fish) mouth and some do not.
> 
> Any theories why this is the case Patric?




*No theories on this Davis-topic -- Brant.  

Am still consumed with the mysteries surrounding
the Davis ''windowed'' dropstand ears.  Two types 
were manufactured … the ''three-edge window'' and 
the ''four-edge window''.

Let me stipify just ''what'' is mysterious to my eye ….
There is not really enough of a design change between
either to warrant the manufacture of an alternate.  ( OPINION )

In addition … were both variations used concurrently ?

Which is the earlier design ?

While neither is found in abundance … either commands
top dollar ---  however … the ''four-edge'' appears to be 
preferred over the ''three-edge'' … as reflected in CABEr's
dropstand ''wants'' .. and sales figures.  ( OPINION )

….. patric*


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## prbowden (Apr 10, 2020)

Ok , this a Davis  stand part ????


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