# another hercules but different.



## redline1968

i found a hercules bike the sturmy says 53 i guess 1953.  its different with a chrome fork and fenders and has lugs also the chain ring is marked hercules.  is it worth fixing? is this a deluxe version? any value to it? any input is appreciated.


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## sailorbenjamin

That's a cool bike.  When did Raleigh buy out Herculese?
Here's a good website for that kind of thing (in case you haven't already found it);
http://sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/index.html
Those fenders look more like schwinn.


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## Brentville

*Some things don't match for me*

It's a nice bike for sure.  And the S/A is mark is a year so it would be 1953 hub and the chain ring is the right time frame too.  But the chrome forks are kind of odd as I don't recall those on bikes from that time period.  The real surprise is what looks like a plastic cable guide on the frame for the shifter.  That should be a metal guide if it's a 1953 bike.  Maybe some parts have been swapped out or replaced?


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## redline1968

yes its cool.  the fork is strainge but fits perfectly. there is some parts on it that are stingray i.e. the hand brakes and the rear caliper and the cable guide also.   Im not too well informed on this type of bike. it rides good. it came with a 53 dyno hub and rim for the front also. the tires are 26 X 1 1/4 in size. the original color was black.


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## zuissjw1

Interesting.  I have a couple of 53/54 Hercules bikes (badged as Churchill Deluxe) and they have the "expected" Hercumatic 3 speed rear hub and shifter (versus Sturmey Archer).  I think I may have heard that the Hercumatic was just a licensed design of the Sturmey hub.  Mine both came with Sturmey front dynohubs so this leads me to believe that Hercules was not "against" using Sturmey parts as again I think this was before any type of merger between Raleigh and Sturmey.  It was well before the Raleigh purchase of Hercules.

My Hercules are 26" wheels with the rod brake profile rims.  They were fitted with the 26 x 1 3/8 standard tires.

With the lack of original paint and missing chainguard and general condition I wouldn't think it would be worth a whole lot.  With the mixture of parts on the bike and the extra wheels this is one bike that might make sense to part out.  I don't generally give this advice to others or myself, but might be the right thing to do here.  If so, wish you lived closer as I'd like to attend that swap meet.   Best of luck, John


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## sailorbenjamin

Hmm.  26x1 1/4?  Sounds like schwinn stuff.  The brits did use this size some but mostly prewar.  Is there a stamp on those rims?
The fenders are definately Schwinn.
Zuissjw1 is right about the value.  I just got a similar Phillips for $50.  The fenders are worth something.
I'd still fix it up though.


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## redline1968

I won't part it out. it has a grease fitting on the hangar for the crank. there are markings on the rim is says dunlop 26X1/14.    here is another bike that came with it. its badged in portland called champion and looks like a schwinn with the same gaurds but its prewar. most companys copied the euro style fenders.


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## redline1968

is it possible that its earlier than 1953. the  sturmy might  be replaced  zuissjw1 could be right with the hercumatic hub.  also i assumed that the rear dropouts indicate the era of the bike. hooked ones are in the 30's


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## zuissjw1

Is the rim on the 53 Sturmey dynohub front wheel a 26 x 1 1/4 too?  I doubt it, but if so, it's possible someone relaced different rims onto the hubs at some point in history.  Maybe they thought they would go "faster".


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## sailorbenjamin

zuissjw1 said:


> Is the rim on the 53 Sturmey dynohub front wheel a 26 x 1 1/4 too?  I doubt it, but if so, it's possible someone relaced different rims onto the hubs at some point in history.  Maybe they thought they would go "faster".




Yup.  26x1 1/4 was the low profile racing wheel of the day.  26x1 3/8 was for cruisers (at least english ones).


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## redline1968

looked at the rear rim.  its a schwinn.  i researched around and from what i seen, its a track frame with the correct front wheel. i could be wrong? the dyno is 1 3/8.  it came separate from the bike. the date purly accident?


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## sailorbenjamin

Try posting over at Bike Forums;
http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=181&daysprune=1
There's some guys there who really know their english bikes.


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## zuissjw1

Now that you mention the Schwinn rear rim and I "count spokes" I see it's a 36 spoke wheel.  All the english 26" 3 speeds of the earlier years (pre 70's) that I know of were 40 spokes.  Counting the front spokes I get a "correct" 32 spoke wheel.  That would tend to support your original front wheel thesis.

As to the frame, the lugs are just like my Hercules produced Churchill Deluxe models.  They are dated in early 50's.  I therefore think the 50's is a reasonable estimation for your example too.  Another forum with some pretty knowledgeable english 3 speed folks is over at oldroads.com .  They have a forum devoted to english 3 speeds.  I hope it's not frowned upon behavior to mention another site here.  I use both myself.

I would be interested in seeing a picture of your "spare" front wheel.  I'm interested in one with a rod brake rim setup (lower rim sidewalls as there are no brake calipers using that surface).  I assume it's a 32 spoke wheel?


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## redline1968

here is the photo of the extra rim.  can you show me a photo of the churchill bike.


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## zuissjw1

Here goes nothing!  New camera (Friday) and first photo postings.  I guess the worst I can do is come up blank.  I intend to put up some photos of both womens and mens bikes, primarily frame and lug details.  

The mens bike is dated 4/53, at least by the Sturmey dynohub on it.  The serial number for this bike is 7532PU.  The womens bike was dated in 1954.  The serial number for it (as possibly shown in one photo) is 10303RS.  I have never seen a Hercules/Hercules family serial number dating scheme/chart.

These are to be 800 x 600.  Is this the "normal" size people upload?  My camera certainly has more capability but don't know what is excessive.  Ah, I find each posting is limited to 4 pictures.  If this is successful I can add last three photos later.


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## zuissjw1

Don't know why my pictures are in my reply versus as attachments to click to view (like most other posts).  I followed the instructions on How to Post Pics in the general forum.  I'll post the other three requested photo's of my Churchill deluxe for the frame lugs and fork leg details but feel free to help me if I'm doing this wrong.  That's how us new guys learn.  On photobucket link options one is fullsize and the other is clickable link.  My default is full size.  Would clickable link make my pictures look like everyone elses?


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## redline1968

nice pictures for a first time.  i cant seem to have pictures out like that. i would not complain about how your photos turn out they seem great to me.   mine has to be  800 x 650 only  i notice that the numbers on yours are on the dropouts.  mine are there but where the brace attaches to it. the head tube is smaller than yours and so is my headbadge. the lugs are the same. i wonder  if they had another model with the same lugs but different options? i think that i have a older model.


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## zuissjw1

The headtube size (length) is primarily determined by the size of the bicycle frame.  Both my mens and womens are large size frames.  

People just seem to be bigger these days and within reason the larger the frame the more collectible.  Most of what I find available are the small or medium sized models so I tend to act more quickly when I find a larger frame.  I am over 6' myself so I pretty much need the largest frame in these old bikes to be very comfortable at all riding them.


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## crank

Here's a circa 53 Hercules club racer that came with EA1 or 26 X 1 1/4 wheels. It also came with the 3 speed Herailleur drivetrain, released in 49. I suspect your Herc has replacement forks or it's a later model with older wheels...your bike would likely have had EA3 rims. I'm thinking the forks are replacements and the mudguards look a little big, maybe?


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## redline1968

thats it.   your right, lots of parts are gone off mine.  thanks for the photo and info.

mark


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## partsguy

What is the difference between this and all the other mountain bikes? I would have mistaken that as a modern bike, parted it out, and scrapped it. It looks so much like the new mountain or racer bikes. This is why I stick to Cruisers and Muscle Bikes.


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## partsguy

oh look! page 3


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