# Model T of antique bikes?



## Balloonoob (Feb 18, 2020)

What would be considered the model t or Mustang of turn of the century bicycles? I'm guessing it would wear a Columbia badge? Just wondering if, as with cars, there are models with higher production numbers that can be had at a lower cost than others. Perhaps a more standard model without the bells and whistles.


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## Balloonoob (Feb 18, 2020)

I guess I should clarify I'm not talking high wheels. I have seen the phrase "standard of the world". Was the "standard" a model name? Was chain drive or gear driven toc bikes more common? Which are typically more reliable? I know.... So many questions.... Haha.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Feb 18, 2020)

the Model T put a car in the price range of regular folks. I don't think there was a bicycle like that.


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## Freqman1 (Feb 18, 2020)

To answer part of your question how many shaft drive bicycles do you see around? V/r Shawn


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## bentwoody66 (Feb 18, 2020)

I see more pictures of Crescent bikes from that time period than any other.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Cooper S. (Feb 18, 2020)

Probably a mead ranger or an Elgin moto


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## PCHiggin (Feb 18, 2020)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> the Model T put a car in the price range of regular folks. I don't think there was a bicycle like that.



X2,Bicycles were expensive back then


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## Balloonoob (Feb 18, 2020)

Cooper S. said:


> Probably a mead ranger or an Elgin moto



If Mead rangers or Elgin motobikes were produced post 1910i don't really consider them toc.


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## Balloonoob (Feb 18, 2020)

Freqman1 said:


> To answer part of your question how many shaft drive bicycles do you see around? V/r Shawn



That's a great question. I have seen none in the Denver area. Here are the oldest 2 i have seen. A truss frame iver Johnson owned by a bada$$ and somewhat lucky dude named Tony and an old hawthorne owned by an  even cooler and older dude named Blu.  And well.. A 1919? Truss frame bike owned by Eric which i don't have a picture of but is chain driven   .  So shaft drive equals rare.... Noted.


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## Cooper S. (Feb 18, 2020)

There’s just too much diversity in bike brands from the Toc to make a clear analogy to car brands. It’d be like asking what sneaker is the model t of sneakers, it’s completely apples and oranges


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## Andrew Gorman (Feb 18, 2020)

Sears sold Napoleon and Josephine bikes that were pretty nice and inexpensive.  But after the bicycle bust ca. 1900 it was a race to the bottom for US bike manufacturers. Iver Johnson seemed to be the last holdout making nice bikes for adults.


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## Freqman1 (Feb 18, 2020)

Balloonoob said:


> That's a great question. I have seen none in the Denver area. Here are the oldest 2 i have seen. A truss frame iver Johnson owned by a bada$$ and somewhat lucky dude named Tony and an old hawthorne owned by an  even cooler and older dude named Blu.  And well.. A 1919? Truss frame bike owned by Eric which i don't have a picture of but is chain driven   .  So shaft drive equals rare.... Noted.
> 
> View attachment 1142160
> 
> ...



Actually the point to my answer was that chain drive was both more common and more reliable. A chain drive system has more tolerance than a gear drive system. V/r Shawn


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## Balloonoob (Feb 18, 2020)

PCHiggin said:


> X2,Bicycles were expensive back then



Bicycles were expensive back then.... From wiki : At a time when Pope charged $125 for a Columbia, Overman Wheel Company was marketing a bicycle for wage workers, who might earn $1 per day. Instead of reducing cost and price on the Columbias, Pope decided to produce a separate line to compete with Overman.[16] Around 1890, Pope started another manufacturer, Hartford Cycle Company in order to create a new line with a mid-price niche.


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## Rambler (Feb 18, 2020)

Balloonoob, I agree with others that the analogy between bicycles and the Model T doesn't really work because they are just too different "apples & oranges". However if you want to consider just bicycle brand production numbers with no regard to model of bicycle, I would guess that you are correct, it's probably the Columbia nameplate that would hold title to the largest number of bicycles produced prior to 1900.


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## Balloonoob (Feb 18, 2020)

Freqman1 said:


> Actually the point to my answer was that chain drive was both more common and more reliable. A chain drive system has more tolerance than a gear drive system. V/r Shawn



Sounds like so long as a shaft/gear drive bike has good teeth that are not ground down it can be easily adjusted for good alignment and ridden reliably   . Given the tires are reliable. I could never own a bike i could not ride.  So what do you mean by tolerance? Thanks Shawn.


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## Freqman1 (Feb 18, 2020)

Balloonoob said:


> Sounds like so long as a shaft/gear drive bike has good teeth that are not ground down it can be easily adjusted for good alignment and ridden reliably   . Given the tires are reliable. I could never own a bike i could not ride.  So what do you mean by tolerance? Thanks Shawn.




I've never owned one myself but from those that have adjusting these can be a bit tricky. Flex from hitting bumps or really riding hard does not affect a chain drive bike the same way it does a gear drive bike which requires precise alignment to prevent binding or slop. Think about how critical it is to set up the ring and pinion on an automotive differential. V/r Shawn


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## Barnegatbicycles (Feb 18, 2020)

Freqman1 said:


> To answer part of your question how many shaft drive bicycles do you see around? V/r Shawn



Lol I was actually going to say Columbia shaft drive bikes. I don't know as I see so many because they were super common back in the day but I feel like many have been saved due to their uniqueness.


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## CURTIS L LINDGREN (Feb 18, 2020)

While I can't say that I have owned a T.O.C. Shaft Driven Bike - - - - - - -I CAN say..............I had one for over 15 years , and rode it a fair amount of times.   @Freqman1   is right about the tolerance with the gears ,  they need to "Mesh" properly under all forms of use.   My bet is most owners probably couldn't do a proper adjustment to their ( T.O.C. ) bikes , and eventually they went by the wayside or were just never ridden again . Darn near anyone can adjust a chain .   So maybe EARLY Shaft driven bikes are rarer ...........I don't know , but I don't see them very often.   Soooooo with that said............. Here's a few pic's of my old " Fendt Cardano "   a German made - MODERN ( 1982 ) Shaft drive Bicycle . 3 Speed , Rear Coaster Brake , Front Caliper Brake , Generator powered Front and rear lights and the clock in the headlight shell is a wind -up ( wound from under the shell )  By The Way @Balloonoob , not trying to hi jack your thread - - - - -but Dangit - - - - - - I think you opened up a pretty broad discussion here - - - - - I figured I'd add my 2c. and a few pic's as well.  Ride Safe Everyone !


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## Balloonoob (Feb 18, 2020)

CURTIS L LINDGREN said:


> While I can't say that I have owned a T.O.C. Shaft Driven Bike - - - - - - -I CAN say..............I had one for over 15 years , and rode it a fair amount of times.   @Freqman1   is right about the tolerance with the gears ,  they need to "Mesh" properly under all forms of use.   My bet is most owners probably couldn't do a proper adjustment to their ( T.O.C. ) bikes , and eventually they went by the wayside or were just never ridden again . Darn near anyone can adjust a chain .   So maybe EARLY Shaft driven bikes are rarer ...........I don't know , but I don't see them very often.   Soooooo with that said............. Here's a few pic's of my old " Fendt Cardano "   a German made - MODERN ( 1982 ) Shaft drive Bicycle . 3 Speed , Rear Coaster Brake , Front Caliper Brake , Generator powered Front and rear lights and the clock in the headlight shell is a wind -up ( wound from under the shell )  By The Way @Balloonoob , not trying to hi jack your thread - - - - -but Dangit - - - - - - I think you opened up a pretty broad discussion here - - - - - I figured I'd add my 2c. and a few pic's as well.  Ride Safe Everyone !
> 
> View attachment 1142274
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> ...



LOL  ... thanks Curt.   I get it.  Ask a bunch of questions...try to be specific...and still open up a pretty broad discussion.  That's the way it goes sometimes.  Hahaha.  Well I dig your old old Hitler youth bike.   Oh man...I try so hard not to sound like the other millennials.  Don't drink and cabe. You'll only get blocked.  Hahaha.


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## Archie Sturmer (Feb 18, 2020)

The premise of the question may have a flaw.
It asks about the model T affordable bike, but then places it in the wrong (expensive) decade.
I believe that the Chicago catalog answers of Mead and Sears was correct, and the ToC era was misplaced.


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## Duchess (Feb 18, 2020)

The 1901-07 curve dash Oldsmobile is often considered to be the first mass produced car. The Model T didn't really take off until after 1910, so even that isn't a TOC car. I'd even say that the Model T was a big reason there wasn't a "Model T" bicycle. Prior to Ford consolidating multiple ideas into the mature assembly line that built the T, most things were done by hand operation by cheap labor. Automation was not only in its infancy, but would have not made financial sense to a bicycle maker as the profits versus the cost weren't there without some kind of unprecedented volumes and the design itself didn't really leave a lot of options for the available automation to be employed to make high volumes for low-priced sales. However, none of that mattered because the assembly line and the efficiency that went with it was more or less brought to life for the T and then those cars were sold so cheaply that people figured they could buy a car instead of a few bicycles for the family. That shut the door on a cheap bicycle revolution.


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## jimbo53 (Feb 19, 2020)

Since a country wasn't referenced, I would like to nominate the venerable Raleigh DL1 Roadster. This style of bike was first produced in Nottingham, england by Raleigh in the 30's and had these common features: rod brakes, Sturmey Archer 3 speed hubs (which Raleigh owned), Brooks saddles (which Raleigh also owned) 26" or 28" wheels  with skinny but durable tires, narrow handlebars for navigating tight urban streets and sidewalks, relaxed frame geometry to deliver a comfortable ride, and on non-export models, a full chaincase cover. (Raleigh also owned Reynolds, a major producer of bicycle tubing.)
Export models had an abbreviated chainguard, which legend has it was needed to reduce weight to avoid a hefty tariff in the US. Like the model T, most were painted basic black. These models were in continuous production from the 30's into the 80's under Raleigh, but the same platform is made by the millions in China, India and Pakistan today. This is truly the ultimate world bike,  not produced for kids, but for adults needing a cheap, reliable mode of transportation. These style bikes were rugged beyond belief,  with a bulletproof, dependable and reliable 3 speed transmission, rod brakes; that, while offering less than steller stopping power, hardly ever need servicing save for changing the brake pads.

Raleigh ladies DL1 style bicycle from the 30's






Ad for 1940's mens bike with lights and front dynohub.




a Gazelle (a brand produced by Raleigh Industries Nottingham)  from the 50's






Raleigh export Tourist from the 70's




Chinese Phoenix still produced today


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## cyclingday (Feb 19, 2020)

^ Yep! ^

Back then, the Sun never set on the British Empire.

To civilize the World, they brought with them, the Railroad and the Bicycle.


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## PCHiggin (Feb 19, 2020)

And Tea of course


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## Blue Streak (Feb 19, 2020)

Interesting article listing production output by manufacturer from June 8, 1899 issue of _The Cycle Age and Trade Review. _Western Wheel Works of Chicago is by far the largest single producer of bicycles at the time.


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## Balloonoob (Feb 19, 2020)

jimbo53 said:


> Since a country wasn't referenced, I would like to nominate the venerable Raleigh DL1 Roadster. This style of bike was first produced by Raleigh in the 30's and had these common features: rod brakes, Sturmey Archer 3 speed hubs (which Raleigh owned), Brooks saddles (which Raleigh also owned) 26" or 28" wheels  with skinny but durable tires, narrow handlebars for navigating tight urban streets and sidewalks, relaxed frame geometry to deliver a comfortable ride, and on non-export models, a full chaincase cover. (Raleigh also owned Reynolds, a major producer of bicycle tubing.)
> Export models had an abbreviated chainguard, which legend has it was needed to reduce weight to avoid a hefty tariff in the US. Like the model T, most were painted basic black. These models were in continuous production from the 30's into the 80's under Raleigh, but the same platform is made by the millions in China, India and Pakistan today. This is truly the ultimate world bike,  not produced for kids, but for adults needing a cheap, reliable mode of transportation. These style bikes were rugged beyond belief,  with a bulletproof, dependable and reliable 3 speed transmission, rod brakes; that, while offering less than steller stopping power, hardly ever need servicing save for changing the brake pads.
> 
> Raleigh ladies DL1 style bicycle from the 30's
> ...



This was a darn good answer. I wasn't really looking for English bikes but I didn't specify country of origin. There were a ton of these Raleigh bikes made - i can tell cause they are all over Craigslist.... Wouldn't be surprised to find one locally at a reasonable price. It's kind of good that US bikes were produced by several different manufacturers and that the market wasn't monopolized. It would have allowed for competition, innovations, and varying styles. It's funny how the The Honda Super Cub is the most-produced motor vehicle in history at over 100 million units. Still being made today. I have not seen a single one pop up on my local Craigslist. Guess they just don't have a market in the US for them.


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## bricycle (Feb 19, 2020)

I'd have to say Sears Napoleon and Josephine bikes also, I had like 4 of them. Or at least Sears sold bikes: Elgin King, Acme King, Napoleon, etc.


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## PCHiggin (Feb 19, 2020)

Balloonoob said:


> This was a darn good answer. I wasn't really looking for English bikes but I didn't specify country of origin. There were a ton of these Raleigh bikes made - i can tell cause they are all over Craigslist.... Wouldn't be surprised to find one locally at a reasonable price. It's kind of good that US bikes were produced by several different manufacturers and that the market wasn't monopolized. It would have allowed for competition, innovations, and varying styles. It's funny how the The Honda Super Cub is the most-produced motor vehicle in history at over 100 million units. Still being made today. I have not seen a single one pop up on my local Craigslist. Guess they just don't have a market in the US for them.
> 
> View attachment 1142443



Bunch of them around back in the day,They were run into the ground and the throwaways in their day


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## piercer_99 (Feb 19, 2020)

Blue Streak said:


> Interesting article listing production output by manufacturer from June 8, 1899 issue of _The Cycle Age and Trade Review. _Western Wheel Works of Chicago is by far the largest single producer of bicycles at the time.
> 
> View attachment 1142440
> View attachment 1142441
> View attachment 1142442



well, with these numbers, Western Wheel Works of Chicago clearly produced the most.  Pope coming in second.

Western Wheel Works had some nice machines.  (1893 catalog)


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## Balloonoob (Feb 19, 2020)

piercer_99 said:


> well, with these numbers, Western Wheel Works of Chicago clearly produced the most.  Pope coming in second.
> 
> Western Wheel Works had some nice machines.  (1893 catalog)
> 
> ...



Wow that's an awesome catalog. Thanks for sharing Pierce!


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## barneyguey (Feb 19, 2020)

I don't know if this 1943 ad qualifies, but this was pretty cheap and bare bones. Barry


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## piercer_99 (Feb 19, 2020)

found some photos of the Victor Overman display at the 1893 Chicago World Fair.

cool stuff.


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## pelletman (Feb 26, 2020)

Columbia Model 40 & 41 I think I see the most of in the 1890's bikes, at least in the realm of what I look at.  Lots of Crescents and G & J's out there too


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## fordsnake (Mar 1, 2020)

The model T was successful because it was a bargain to buy! Becoming the first affordable automobile to owned. During that same time line and earlier, bicycles were also very expensive...high prices that most people could not afford.

Then in waltzed Sears & Roebuck, they neither owned a manufacturing plant or a retail store, and yet they dominated in bicycle volume and sales. Their mail order house single handedly changed the paradigm of bicycle prices. And for this, they were venomously hated in the bicycle community, viewed as being responsible for ruining the industry with their low pricing.

So, at the turn of the century and decades after, it was Sears that made affordable bikes for everyone!


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