# Bike, Collectors, Investors and Hoarders



## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 14, 2022)

I know I am treading on sacred ground here and am not trying to make any new enemies here. But this has been on my mind for a long time and I need to get it off my chest. Thanks in advance for your understanding and courtesy in your answers.

I have built and repaired many of these bicycles in my life, as I remember most were for people who had a couple bikes and always wanted that particular one they never got as a child.

Unfortunately, that is not the case today. Now we have guys that own basements, garages and even pole barns full of bikes. I am putting that group into the above titled classes and explaining my view on these groups. Please be uderstanding and not too offended.

Bike Collectors.
This group I am sure is the largest here on The CABE, but not the largest of the three groups listed.
The Collector sets out to get one of each bike they ever wanted as a kid but could not afford. I understand this and have done this in the past myself. I still think it puts a bite on the hobby, because many people who want a particular bike cannot find one because they are all sitting in dealer style rows somewhere. Their owners had an abundance of cash and could buy ever increasingly expensive bikes most of us could never afford on the spot. Still, like I said I have been there although without the abundance of cash.
Worse to me is the collector of hard to find parts that they hang on the wall and dust occasionally when there are bike builders out there looking for that part. If they are lucky enough to find one it is usually ridiculously priced because there are hundreds of them hanging on walls doing nothing. 
I have always wanted a Violet Stingray, preferably a 3 speed bike but flexible there. I see threads where one wasn't perfect enough for their collection so they hang it up as wall art. 
Sell the thing man! When you can scour the country for near perfect original bikes and pay exorbitant amounts of money for them what is that frame or seat or fork to you? Another trophy nobody else can ever enjoy.

Then we have the Investor. Out of the three groups this is the one I like the least. I have seen this group destroy more dreams than the other groups combined. It happened in the musclecar market, the old motorcycle market and any other market one could desire something from.
They are there only to make money. They don't care about the product, only how many dollars it will bring. Parted or whole doesn't matter as long as they maximize their investment.
It's because of people like these that it is so ridiculously expensive to buy a nice bike or a part to finish a bike. I wanted to build a copy of my December 1971 Disc Brake Orange Krate.  I did about 12 years ago, but had to sell it to help my brother with his dad's funeral. The local investor guy came to buy it for an already lower than market price but insisted on whittling me down by pointing out all the (tiny) flaws the bike had. He knew I was in a bad position and instead of compassion he showed only greed. I ended up selling because funeral homes won't even move the body until they are paid in full with cash or a high interest loan. I did not even get enough for the bike 10 years ago to buy a rear wheel now. I know he parted the bike for a substantial profit or sold it for 4-5 times what he paid me.
Yes, it was my decision to sell but under very extenuating circumstances.
Now a disc brake wheel can cost as much as $2000+ for a nice one like I built from parts for about $300 12 years ago. A decent disc brake bike can bring double that or more. It has nothing to do with the hobby, (or lifestyle as I see it) only another stock in their portfolio.
These people have decimated every hobby or lifestyle or whatever you call it that exists. Hemi musclecars, old British, Japanese or American motorcycles, vintage toys, etc. 

The last but maybe not the least is the hoarder. The person who has to have every nut, bolt bracket seat etc of every bike he can find and puts them in a big pile to rot away. Then he hears that a disc brake Krate wheel can bring $2000 so he digs into a pile and pulls out a rusty, bent rim wit some of the pieces missing and Bam! It's on eBay for $2000. When you explain it isn't worth that much in that condition they get defensive or downright rude and violent. No poop, this really happened to me.
I saw a bike on eBay that, while nice enough for a rider was listed as something it wasn't.  I contacted the seller to try to explain what I meant nicely and by the 3rd message from him he was accusing me of molesting his child and said it was on camera and he was contacting the authorities. I had no idea who he was or where he lived but regardless I would never do that or allow it to be done while I still drew breath. I reported him to my local authorities and the County Sheriff and court subpoenaed eBay for the sellers name and address. I am sure when they found him they threatened him with prosecution if he filed his false report. I also contacted eBay but they of course did nothing. I probably still have the screenshots of the conversation.
All because he hoarded this stuff up from barns, garages, basements and back yards then saw a dollar sign on a turd.

The moral of my story?
This is a hobby or lifestyle. Nothing wrong with making some money but do it fairly. Consider the person you are dealing with. I am on disability, and probably shouldn't spend any money on old bikes but I cannot afford old cars and I need something to keep me busy. I enjoy building old bikes and always have.
I still want a Violet Stingray, preferably a 3 speed frame. I have a sandblasted (not by me) 1965 coaster frame but I want one with a reasonable amount of paint. I can be happy if I need to put non correct parts on it. I want to ride it while I still can.
If anyone knows of a frame at a reasonable cost you can PM me. 

All replies welcome, but please be at least as decent as I was and we can talk about our views like adults. Or very old teenagers.
Done whining now.


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## Freqman1 (Apr 14, 2022)

We would all like to buy stuff at our price. The market for certain bikes and items has got crazy in the last few years but I don't blame anyone. Very few of us have unlimited funds for our hobby so we buy what we can afford and have fun. Not having fun--time to find a new hobby. For some people having fun means having 10 fender bombs sitting in the showcase or having a piece of wall art. That is how they prefer to enjoy the hobby. I know a lot of people who collect bikes and don't even ride them-say whaaatt! My point is people enjoy the hobby in different ways and it isn't for me to say how they should conduct business. As far as selling stuff goes I would probably rather trade than sell but if I do I want market price. I've sold stuff to people in the past for a decent price only to see it on eBay a week later at a substantial mark-up. I'm no longer leaving meat on the bone! My 2c. V/r Shawn


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## PCHiggin (Apr 14, 2022)

Yep, Your money, your business. A guy on the old forum had a seemingly truckload of nos solo polo seats, plenty of duplicates and, to my understanding, wouldn’t let go of any. I thought it was silly  @ the time but thought of some things I wouldn’t part with and I understood him. None of my business what he had or what he did with it.


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## tacochris (Apr 14, 2022)

While some people might not believe it, even at 41 I have been in the hobby since the late 1980's when my dad got me into it as a way of bonding together, and have been building, riding and deeply loving bikes ever since.  Growing up my dad always had a thing for phantoms but it just wasnt something he could find (pre internet) very easily and sadly he passed away having never owned one.  To me, as was the scene in the 80's, phantoms were just about the top-dog of Schwinn bikes and that was before I even knew autocycles existed.  I spent at least 30 years of my life wanting one badly and never being able to pull it off.....but now, I have 5, and one of each color and that is something young me would have absolutely freaked out about.  ...funny enough, I ride the ones that are road worthy and I ride em HARD and treat them like my babies.  I have had local folks offer me double what I paid for them and I have turned down every buyer so far because the idea of having the bike outweighs my need to have the money.  After-all, money goes away....the bike is forever!  Might seem greedy that i have 5 of them at this point but I ride the hell out of them and half of mine are bikes most guys would part out so I consider myself doing a service to them like a person adopting an aggressive dog so they dont get put down.  
I DO understand what you're saying but its something that has been a thing since collecting things became a thing.  Its not something thats going away anytime soon so you kinda just grit your teeth when you see the vultures swarming and move on.  It does no good to bring it up or even mention it because it will fall on deaf ears in 100% of the cases.  

I have a 41 autocycle to finish at some point and Im just praying one of the hoarders has it in their heart to peel off the pieces I need and not rake me over the coals even though they totally could if they wanted to.  Free country being that as it may...

That being said, I am not rich, I am a normal middle class, single income, one kid family with an 8-5 job and serious health issues and by all accounts I should not own what I own but by the grace of God I do and if you really push and scrape and fight and stay on the grind, you too can own your dream bike even if the market tells you no.


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## Schwinny (Apr 14, 2022)

It's not the car, it's the person.
Not the house it's the person.
Not the motorcycle, it's the person.... Etc.

It's the very reason I have so much experience in so many subjects.
I get tired of the collective nonsense and move on...completely.
I'm hoping to balance bikes with experience.
When we start talking Campy, I move on.
I know what will show it's head next.
No "Bike Forums" for me.

Low self esteem and OCD aside...
Money is not the root of all evil. Selfishness is the root of all evil. Money is merely the favorite tool 
Lof our ego.

 Almost finished liquidating my life long hobby, never to return fo similar issue


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## Frank and Pam Skid Kings (Apr 14, 2022)

No different then any other hobby. Look at petroleum, oil and gas. How many signs and pumps do you need ? How many rolls of silver dollars does a coin collector need ? Answer: as many as make you happy, that is what a hobby is all about. And wouldn't we all love people to part with all the hard to find parts. Well in most cases that collection took them years and more money, road time and research then you can imagine. You buy it when you see it, cause you mite need it or trade or cash for something you do need or just enjoy it. There's no rules, just envy. So if you really want something you can't just buy, get out there and search for it. It'll  be rewarding when you find it, just like the guys that did that to build their collections, and you'll find the thrill of having a hobby you enjoy. If not, try scrap booking for a hobby.  😉


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## ian (Apr 14, 2022)

I have 4 "riders" , but don't consider myself a collector. Definitely NOT an investor......I guess it depends on what you want and if you can swing the cost.
I have gotten all my rides from willing sellers here on theCabe. I enjoy the hunt, enjoy the work  and sell them as I see fit. That way I have more $$ to spend here.
I'm easily amused. My .02 worth.
Ian


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## kreika (Apr 14, 2022)

The group that makes me sad are the ones that never let anything go. Then they die and it all gets thrown away by some annoyed relative who sees it all as junk. I hear vintage bike parts screaming in the metal crusher. “Save me”. 🤣


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 14, 2022)

I 







Freqman1 said:


> We would all like to buy stuff at our price. The market for certain bikes and items has got crazy in the last few years but I don't blame anyone. Very few of us have unlimited funds for our hobby so we buy what we can afford and have fun. Not having fun--time to find a new hobby. For some people having fun means having 10 fender bombs sitting in the showcase or having a piece of wall art. That is how they prefer to enjoy the hobby. I know a lot of people who collect bikes and don't even ride them-say whaaatt! My point is people enjoy the hobby in different ways and it isn't for me to say how they should conduct business. As far as selling stuff goes I would probably rather trade than sell but if I do I want market price. I've sold stuff to people in the past for a decent price only to see it on eBay a week later at a substantial mark-up. I'm no longer leaving meat on the bone! My 2c. V/r Shawn



I understand that man. I have had that happen to me as well as you can see by my rant.
Thanks for the courteous response man.
Rob


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## 3-speeder (Apr 14, 2022)

I'm not sure about the three kinds of collectors theory, infinite types really, as many types as there are people.
I am reminded of this thread with the same sorta thought..... maybe?  From my favorite user name ever









						You guys need to explain something to me. | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

Hi. I got a question for all you bike collectors. Before I get to the question, I will give some background.  I know nothing about collecting bikes. My new brother-in-law, who I think is a grade A A-hole, is into bikes and just will not shut the hell up about them. He has over thirty of these...




					thecabe.com


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Apr 14, 2022)

you have some odd ideas about other peoples motives in this bicycle hobby of ours.

""The Collector sets out to get one of each bike they ever wanted as a kid but could not afford""

I wanted an Apple Krate like my best buddy had when I was a kid. the only reason I would buy one now or any Stingray for that matter would be to resell for a profit to someone who likes them. (I like Stingrays, but just other peoples Stingrays) you complain that people collect the parts with no intention of putting them on a bike. parts, ephemera, books, pictures, everything bike related is part of collecting. the prices are not as high as they are because of this, they are high because these parts are all at least 50 years old and 97% of the population thinks they are garbage to be tossed out.

you are confused about investors. I would guess there are very few bicycle "investors" who are only adding to their portfolio, if there is such a person, they are not investing in anything I could afford and would have no effect on my hobby. investors would not be buying $1,000.00 bikes. (neither do I 😩 can't afford them.)

my favorite part is complaining about other peoples purchases. well, get up at 5:00 on a Sunday and get to every swap meet you can before 7:00 at the latest. know what you are looking for, don't go with buddies because you will miss half the stuff, search every box in a guys spot. I used to do this with 37-54 Chevrolet parts and resell on ebay. I also went estate sales and garage sales every weekend looking for just regular old stuff with some value.  buying and selling old junk is labor and time intensive, you have to invest more than just money to get the good deals, they won't be left on your doorstep by the bike fairy. buying and selling is a BIG part of the hobby for me. 

before my job blocked Craigslist on my work computer I was on there 3-4 times a day. missed a few great deals by one phone call but scored two post war B-6 Schwinns with a front brake and lever worth more than I paid for the whole bike among other good finds. I still look every day after work. 

you speak poorly of people who make money on this hobby and hoarders at the same time. I just bought out a hoarders stash of bikes and parts he had for 30 years doing nothing at all with them. they were all on his patio under covers rotting. so I will make some money and end up with a "free" Schwinn Phantom for my troubles. 19 bikes total and 5 tubs of parts. how many would still be around if this guy had not hoarded them when they were cheaper?

that's how I got it figured anyways.


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## ivrjhnsn (Apr 14, 2022)

Hi , my name is scott ,,,and yes I am a hoarder of Iver Johnson stuff  .. Just ask the fellow Caber's that have seen .👹
And no,,I wont sell anything . You'll have to wait for my estate sale . Decision made. So let it be written, so let it be done. (Yule Brynner)


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## dasberger (Apr 14, 2022)

ivrjhnsn said:


> Hi , my name is scott ,,,and yes I am a hoarder of Iver Johnson stuff  .. Just ask the fellow Caber's that have seen .👹
> And no,,I wont sell anything . You'll have to wait for my estate sale . Decision made. So let it be written, so let it be done. (Yule Brynner)



But... but... I need a teens nickel fork real bad!  Please??!! I've seen that rack of forks! 🤣  

Back on topic....My wife thinks I'm a hoarder, I guess it's starting to look like a collection at my warehouse and I certainly have bikes and parts worth more than I paid for them....  Oh Sh*t I just realized I'm hoarding a collection of investment grade bikes!  Could be worse...  I do ride (some of) them.  I may ride all off them if that teens Iver fork wasn't crimped


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## Rivnut (Apr 14, 2022)

I don’t classify myself as to fitting into any one of the three listed categories.  I like to tinker. Sometimes just getting a rusty hulk rideable, sometimes trying to bring them back to a semi-original form. Just stretching myself to the max of my skills.  No plans to sell just to sell, not a bunch of extra parts, nothing unique enough to be an investment.  I’m out of room for storing/working on anymore so I’ve quit looking for more.  I enjoy trying to fix problems caused by previous owners who just didn’t know proper techniques.  I like to ride down the street and have folks give me a thumbs up, sometimes asking me to stop so they can get a closer look. Am I alone out there? Am I the only one who is not in this as a money maker? 😎


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## Balloontyre (Apr 14, 2022)

I figure everyone is right to enjoy or dislike old bikes or junk and do or don't do with your property as you want.


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## ian (Apr 14, 2022)

Rivnut said:


> I don’t classify myself as to fitting into any one of the three listed categories.  I like to tinker. Sometimes just getting a rusty hulk rideable, sometimes trying to bring them back to a semi-original form. Just stretching myself to the max of my skills.  No plans to sell just to sell, not a bunch of extra parts, nothing unique enough to be an investment.  I’m out of room for storing/working on anymore so I’ve quit looking for more.  I enjoy trying to fix problems caused by previous owners who just didn’t know proper techniques.  I like to ride down the street and have folks give me a thumbs up, sometimes asking me to stop so they can get a closer look. Am I alone out there? Am I the only one who is not in this as a money maker? 😎



I'm definitely in the same place as you. It's fun to have an oldtimer ask about a bike and occasionally even humor me and take it for a spin. Fixing old parts piles into riders makes me happy. Riding old Colsons does too. Not trying to make any money,  just turning the few extra parts into $$ to buy more parts....
If it wasn't for all the help from theCabe,  I'd still be riding my '76 Free Spirit wanna-be.


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## dasberger (Apr 14, 2022)

Honestly, I kid... I really enjoy the hunt and then bringing them back.  There really is joy in digging a prewar bike out of a moldy basement or garage knowing you're the one who is going to go through it and get it back on the road.  I enjoy the researching the bikes and learning about new manufacturers, parts and having to learn to service different hubs etc. Each project I get more comfortable and there's always a challenge involved (the latest was a two week battle with a frozen stem on a 20's Moto) 

The CABE is such an amazing resource and great community and I've enjoyed the experience thus far.  I've found most people to be genuine and really good about trying to help you get the parts you need.  I try to pass on those that I know I won't need.  Amazing the hodge lodge of misc parts some of these bikes have after 80 years.   You can't blame folks for making a buck if they have something hard to come by.  I've also learned it can certainly be costly to piece together bikes so I wouldn't really call what I do an investment its just a labor of love.  Some of them I'm alright as they are  and just service others I'm trying to make whole.   I really have no specific goals for a collection I just keep the ones I enjoy and pass the others along hoping they put a smile on someone else's face!

I've got no beef with the hoarders, collectors, investors or flippers.  It takes all of us to make the hobby what it is and by no means I am going to tell someone else what they can or can't do with their $$$.

Anyhoo.... Yay Bikes!


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## Rivnut (Apr 14, 2022)

What bugs me is that I find a bike for $40 - $50 that’s missing one piece and the part you need costs you 3X what you paid for the entire bike so that if you did want to sell it, you’ll have more $ in the entire bike than you can sell it for. 🧐


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## catfish (Apr 14, 2022)

ivrjhnsn said:


> Hi , my name is scott ,,,and yes I am a hoarder of Iver Johnson stuff  .. Just ask the fellow Caber's that have seen .👹
> And no,,I wont sell anything . You'll have to wait for my estate sale . Decision made. So let it be written, so let it be done. (Yule Brynner)




I can attest to this.


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## coasterbrakejunkie1969 (Apr 14, 2022)

I did not get started to make money but I also lack endless storage so I often sell things I do not need. I do now buy items with the intention of selling them for profit when I know I will be on the + side. I have started to collect certain parts without ever planning on using them but it is an aesthetic thing like art to me. To each his own.


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## catfish (Apr 14, 2022)

The only way to make a little money in the bicycle hobby, is to start out with a lot of money.

   Catfish


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## Handle Bar Hoarder (Apr 14, 2022)

there is a reason why my cabe name  is what it is 🤓  why i don't know i am a hoarder by nature....... got any bike's for sale????


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## Nashman (Apr 14, 2022)

Yeah, people are going to do what they want in any walk of life or hobby, good or bad no matter what we say or think. (Those 3 bicycle related people categories fall in there).  Some peoples actions are annoying if you let it get to you. Best to focus on things (and people) you can change as opposed to things you can't. That starts at home ( you?). Be comfortable with why you do what *you* do, or change. Resentment and bitterness is negative energy. If your wishes/goals are not attainable, adjust them, or give them up.

Why frustrate yourself and be miserable when the bar is too high? Stewing over ( I'm not saying who is or isn't) how others are "spoiling" things for you or the hobby in general is fruitless. Don't add to it by enabling them if possible. I've sold ( mostly at losses) many hobby related items and hope it's gone to a good home, but it's gone, so I move on. If someone profits by it, so what. It bugs me a bit, but not for long. It was my choice to sell. Let it go.

If you are on the Cabe, chances are pretty good you are for some reason. There are many. Letting off steam is one. Laughing and enjoying things with "like minded people" is very important. If a hobby isn't fun, it's time for a change. We are lucky to have a hobby that is fun and as affordable as you can make it. You don't need to own, ride, wrench, or collect bikes to be in this hobby. It's not a contest either. Sure, there will be the good, the bad, and the ugly in any situation. Putting it in perspective is the key. Do I follow these words of advice? I try to. Do I succeed? Sometimes.....Ha!!


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## catfish (Apr 14, 2022)

I buy what I like.


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## Nashman (Apr 14, 2022)

catfish said:


> I buy what I like.



If I can afford to, I generally do too. Sometimes I wonder why, some times I don't? I quote another thread I contributed to. "I've got some Neanderthal DNA in me for sure. Logic and reason don't compute. I missed that class. I was out having a smoke. I quit smoking decades ago and I've never invented a thing."


			https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/are-we-that-important.207000/page-3#post-1415049


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## hzqw2l (Apr 14, 2022)

catfish said:


> I buy what I like.



Ditto.  When I get tired of it I sell it.

If I make a few $ good if not it's still good.


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## HEMI426 (Apr 14, 2022)

Addiction has many levels and comes in many categories. It's a hard thing to figure out but reading this thread is like therapy for some. The Cabe has given us a method to the madness with all the different views on this topic. Just do what makes you happy and don't worry about the rest.


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## Rivnut (Apr 14, 2022)

Handle Bar Hoarder said:


> there is a reason why my cabe name  is what it is 🤓  why i don't know i am a hoarder by nature....... got any bike's for sale????



Do you hoard anything besides handle bars?


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## Schwinny (Apr 14, 2022)

Yepp, we gonna do what we gonna do.
Indignation is building.
Folks put a lot of effort into this hobby. How they do it isn't up for open discussion or judgement.
And this forum site. Is the most tame I've seen, with the most reserved folks I've run into in the ether. I've proven it myself, there are still millions of old bikes to be found.
The answer is to concentrate on it and it will show up, as long as you leave your house
But... I think it was easier to find an old stingray yesterday.


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## vincev (Apr 14, 2022)

I guess I am a collector still.I buy bikes I buy them only because I like them. I dont resell or think of them as investments.I go to shows whenever I get there.I also spend more time talking to friends than trying to stress myself over a "deal" When you have been doing this as long as I have the swap meets are made for enjoyment not for competing with others. I also believe if something is meant to be for me it will happen so I dont go crazy at swap meets.


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## SJ_BIKER (Apr 14, 2022)

As for classic bikes are concerned they are out there still and many are still stuck in barns, basements, back yards, in the dump and swaps and garages, attics and storages..... just waiting to be rescued....Early bird with cash in hand gets the worm nuff said


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## Handle Bar Hoarder (Apr 14, 2022)

Rivnut said:


> Do you hoard anything besides handle bars?



well yes i do as a matter of fact.........


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## SirMike1983 (Apr 14, 2022)

I am in this hobby because I am a romantic at heart and enjoy well-made, old things. But even more than that, I enjoy rolling along a flat country road or conquering a hill, or coasting down hill on whatever old bike I'm riding at the time. One could be happy with just one old bike, but one can be miserable owning a million, if you allow a negative mindset to take hold. I think the mindset is getting the old bike on the road (even if it's a basic old junker) and putting it in motion. Persistence and ingenuity conquer all.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Apr 15, 2022)

...even if I had the cash to buy nice original bikes I'd still buy the crummy ones and fix them up. so the "bike mechanic" aspect of it has an appeal to me as well. I like taking junk and making it better. bikes, cars, furniture as well.


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## tacochris (Apr 15, 2022)

SJ_BIKER said:


> As for classic bikes are concerned they are out there still and many are still stuck in barns, basements, back yards, in the dump and swaps and garages, attics and storages..... just waiting to be rescued....Early bird with cash in hand gets the worm nuff said



This brings up an interesting point.  I used to get all hot and bothered about "flippers" and "vultures" back in the day battling for parts as a young collector but someone brought up an interesting point and I never forgot it.  In alot of cases, the flippers and such are bringing bikes back into the hobby that in alot of cases would have never seen the light of day so as annoying as they can be on occasion, they do serve a purpose to all of us even if they drive the cost of parts up.


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## tacochris (Apr 15, 2022)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> ...even if I had the cash to buy nice original bikes I'd still buy the crummy ones and fix them up. so the "bike mechanic" aspect of it has an appeal to me as well. I like taking junk and making it better. bikes, cars, furniture as well.



Im the same way....I love an original bike but to me, the "left for dead" bikes sure offer a larger feeling of satisfaction....A solid challenge....


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## BRad90 (Apr 15, 2022)

This hobby seems to have the same problem as all the other hobbies out there. I am a collector of many things from license plates to comics and bicycles. I have seen the same problems come up in each one of them but what can you do? I understand it's frustrating but you just got to shake your head and move on. I will admit, I have bought things with the intention to make money because that also is a hobby I have found to enjoy, as long as I don't get to attached to the item. 😅 Just my two cents.

Brandyn


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## Allrounderco (Apr 15, 2022)

I've got no right to comment on what others do, so long as it's not hurting anyone (and no, driving up the price of a niche collectible isn't keeping anyone from owning or riding a bicycle). It's simply none of my business.

I'm also secure enough in the way I live to not feel the desire to tell anyone they are "wrong" (as if anything discussed in this thread were a moral issue).

I'm not suggesting my way of thinking is suitable for anyone but myself, but I will say I've been a lot more content since I've decided to not concern myself with things that are out of my control - especially when they don't concern me. It pretty much makes news and social media irrelevant (so many hours reclaimed right there).

That said, I've committed all three "sins" here at various times. At this moment, all I really want to do is ride my bike, and admire the old bikes of others. That's why I'm here. Yeah, I still have some bikes, but it's a number that makes sense for me. And it's subject to change. Thanks to all here who are preserving bikes, bringing them to shows and swaps, and posting pics.


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## Rusthound (Apr 15, 2022)

"This hobby seems to have the same problem as all the other hobbies out there"    Yep they are all pretty much the same. Doesn't matter if  you collect salt and pepper shakers or Roll Royce's   Having numerous other bad habits and  I have noticed that the Bicycle collectors do inflate internally the prices of bike and parts.  You can out price your own hobby.  I see posted a thread of a decent sized bike auction, some have said only a couple of "good" bike. others comment that mostly entry level bikes.  well guys you need new entry level collector all the time to keep the hobby moving.  Instead comments like bike #  126 would be a great place to start your collection or #199 be a good place to move up a step from basic entry level because of this and give some real advice.. 
We all started someplace some how.


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## stezell (Apr 15, 2022)

I'm in the hobby due to the fact I like people, tinkering, and history. I know people in all 3 of those categories and I like them all. It's a free country, anyone can do as they please, and I'm one of the many on here who have fought for that right.


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## bikebozo (Apr 15, 2022)

I have lost money , made money , made life long friends ,and life long people who do not like me ,


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## catfish (Apr 15, 2022)

bikebozo said:


> I have lost money , made money , made life long friends ,and life long people who do not like me ,




Walter, you have also made friends that love you.


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## bikebozo (Apr 15, 2022)

Thank you , much appreciated


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 15, 2022)

Rivnut said:


> I don’t classify myself as to fitting into any one of the three listed categories.  I like to tinker. Sometimes just getting a rusty hulk rideable, sometimes trying to bring them back to a semi-original form. Just stretching myself to the max of my skills.  No plans to sell just to sell, not a bunch of extra parts, nothing unique enough to be an investment.  I’m out of room for storing/working on anymore so I’ve quit looking for more.  I enjoy trying to fix problems caused by previous owners who just didn’t know proper techniques.  I like to ride down the street and have folks give me a thumbs up, sometimes asking me to stop so they can get a closer look. Am I alone out there? Am I the only one who is not in this as a money maker? 😎



Thid is what I am talking about man! I have had more than a few condescending responses to this thread from people who seem to fit into one or more of my 3 main categories here.
I never said there were ONLY three types of people in this hobby. I said there are 3 types of people that are hurting this and other hobbies.
The 4th kind of person is like you and I feel. We are here for the bikes, not the money, or the bragging rights we get from posting photos of the latest conquest. 
Thanks for making the point I was trying for.
Rob


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 15, 2022)

Frank and Pam Skid Kings said:


> No different then any other hobby. Look at petroleum, oil and gas. How many signs and pumps do you need ? How many rolls of silver dollars does a coin collector need ? Answer: as many as make you happy, that is what a hobby is all about. And wouldn't we all love people to part with all the hard to find parts. Well in most cases that collection took them years and more money, road time and research then you can imagine. You buy it when you see it, cause you mite need it or trade or cash for something you do need or just enjoy it. There's no rules, just envy. So if you really want something you can't just buy, get out there and search for it. It'll  be rewarding when you find it, just like the guys that did that to build their collections, and you'll find the thrill of having a hobby you enjoy. If not, try scrap booking for a hobby.  😉



Scrapbooking?
Maybe I took you wrong, but I find that comment to be a little bit condescending. 
I don't know how old you are, but I am 61 and have been building, riding and restoring bikes since high school in 1974. I do enjoy this hobby. I also enjoy old motorcycles, musclecars and the company of close friends, all of which are getting more rare every day. 
I don't mean to sound envious, I am glad for anyone who can find things that make them happy. I said in the beginning that Collectors were not the main problem. Too many people didn't get that apparently.
Maybe there were points I should've made more clear, but I already wrote a small book here and thought most people would get the point with what I did write. I guess I was wrong.
Rob


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## Boris (Apr 15, 2022)

I've met Frank and he's at least 94 or 95. Pam was with him at the time, she's quite a bit younger. I've seen his scrapbook collection too, and I have to say, it's quite impressive.


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## Frank and Pam Skid Kings (Apr 15, 2022)

Oldbikeguy1960 said:


> Scrapbooking?
> Maybe I took you wrong, but I find that comment to be a little bit condescending.
> I don't know how old you are, but I am 61 and have been building, riding and restoring bikes since high school in 1974. I do enjoy this hobby. I also enjoy old motorcycles, musclecars and the company of close friends, all of which are getting more rare every day.
> I don't mean to sound envious, I am glad for anyone who can find things that make them happy. I said in the beginning that Collectors were not the main problem. Too many people didn't get that apparently.
> ...



 That comment was in no way directed at you. I just wanted to point out, in my opinion, most hobbies have a lot of competition and it's never easy being a collector in a big hobby. It was directed for the people who think everything is a gimme and there's been other posts about that. Everything I said was my point of view, not  what I thought yours should be. I apologize for the way you took it, which just furthers my point that in high profile hobbies there's always a lot of misunderstanding. Only way to avoid that is a mundane hobby, and neither one of us would be enjoying bikes and be on this site if we felt that way, right? A hobby should be fun for the person doing it and I bet everyone agrees on that. By the way I am not 95, but having met Boris I can understand that to a twelve year old it's hard to tell age. Hey everyone ! Have a great weekend !    😎


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 15, 2022)

Thanks for clarifying and sorry for misunderstanding. Have a great weekend.
Rob


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## oskisan (Apr 16, 2022)

It sounds to me like you were a happy collector/enthusiast enjoying the bike hobby around 10 - 15 years ago primarily working on stingray/muscle bikes. During those times Hyperformance Pete was repopping stringray parts and severely affecting the value of stingrays that should have increased in value, but stayed stagnant for a long period of time. I was very heavy into muscle bikes back during that time but could barely sell my bikes for anything. During those times I sold several manta rays for $500 ea., complete krates for $500-$600, etc. Disc wheels ran around $500 and there were plenty of repopped parts for spring forks, seat shocks, shifter parts, fenders, etc. Once Pete had a stroke and dropped out of the business, things really took off and the market went crazy. On top of all this Schwinn also repopped the krates and phantoms and that further hurt the market. The changes in the market have just caught up to where they should have been all along and it was a welcome thing to see. I completely stopped collecting postwar schwinns over 15 years ago and focused my attention on prewar bikes. I was also astounded when I recently revisited Stingrays only to see the market had finally corrected itself. It is important to note that while stingrays are getting expensive, they are still quite affordable and highly accessible bikes. At any day during the week, you can probably buy between 5-10 stingrays if you really wanted to.

Personally I love any/all bikes and "go with the flow" on them. While I still collect prewar bikes, I have also started delving into full suspension and hardtail vintage mountain bikes. This area of bike collecting is still fresh and (while is gaining in popularity) still affordable. BMX bikes have gained a lot of momentum and are also an area where you can find many at garage sales/flea markets.

-Ken


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## RPower (Apr 16, 2022)

Rivnut said:


> I don’t classify myself as to fitting into any one of the three listed categories.  I like to tinker. Sometimes just getting a rusty hulk rideable, sometimes trying to bring them back to a semi-original form. Just stretching myself to the max of my skills.  No plans to sell just to sell, not a bunch of extra parts, nothing unique enough to be an investment.  I’m out of room for storing/working on anymore so I’ve quit looking for more.  I enjoy trying to fix problems caused by previous owners who just didn’t know proper techniques.  I like to ride down the street and have folks give me a thumbs up, sometimes asking me to stop so they can get a closer look. Am I alone out there? Am I the only one who is not in this as a money maker? 😎



Same - build them, ride them, lose money, repeat.


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## J-wagon (Apr 16, 2022)

Hi my name is Jack and I'm a newbie collector. Main focus bikes in $0 to $100 range within one hour drive and make into franken klunkers to ride. I like visiting CABE because it's a virtual bike museum with good pics and sometime I can contribute assistance.


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## ian (Apr 16, 2022)

J-wagon said:


> Hi my name is Jack and I'm a newbie collector. Main focus bikes in $0 to $100 range within one hour drive and make into franken klunkers to ride. I like visiting CABE because it's a virtual bike museum with good pics and sometime I can contribute assistance.



I have a start to a $100 frankenclunker for ya, but it's a little more than an hour away. If you're ever in NW Oregon,  please look me up. 😀😃🙂 JK.......
Ian


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## Gully (Apr 16, 2022)

Oldbikeguy1960 said:


> I know I am treading on sacred ground here and am not trying to make any new enemies here. But this has been on my mind for a long time and I need to get it off my chest. Thanks in advance for your understanding and courtesy in your answers.
> 
> I have built and repaired many of these bicycles in my life, as I remember most were for people who had a couple bikes and always wanted that particular one they never got as a child.
> 
> ...



I guess I'm not any of your groups and it's just a hobby for me as well.  I currently have 3 old ones and a Trek DS.  I as well would like a old car or two in the garage but I cannot afford it.  Bicycles are fairly reasonable, considering, and I'll always have a few and one in the works.  I find it enjoyable, relaxing and fulfilling to put an 80 year old bike back on the road again.  I like your story and thanks for sharing your thoughts!


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 16, 2022)

Gully said:


> I guess I'm not any of your groups and it's just a hobby for me as well.  I currently have 3 old ones and a Trek DS.  I as well would like a old car or two in the garage but I cannot afford it.  Bicycles are fairly reasonable, considering, and I'll always have a few and one in the works.  I find it enjoyable, relaxing and fulfilling to put an 80 year old bike back on the road again.  I like your story and thanks for sharing your thoughts!



Thanks for yours as well! 
Rob


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## Monarkman (Apr 16, 2022)

Oldbikeguy1960 said:


> I know I am treading on sacred ground here and am not trying to make any new enemies here. But this has been on my mind for a long time and I need to get it off my chest. Thanks in advance for your understanding and courtesy in your answers.
> 
> I have built and repaired many of these bicycles in my life, as I remember most were for people who had a couple bikes and always wanted that particular one they never got as a child.
> 
> ...



Omg!!! So much whining!!! Why not just worry about yourself and stay out of others business. Life is too short!!!! It’s not your business or mine what anyone else wants to do with the hobby.Let it go, and go live your life.🤔🤔


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 16, 2022)

I did at the beginning of MY thread indicate it was an opinion. At the end I opened it to courteous comments and opinions.
Yours does not qualify as a courteous comment or useful opinion, therefore I must ask, if that is the best you can do please go find somewhere else to do it.
If you cannot have respect for another person's thread stay off of it man.
Rob


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 16, 2022)

By 







Monarkman said:


> Omg!!! So much whining!!! Why not just worry about yourself and stay out of others business. Life is too short!!!! It’s not your business or mine what anyone else wants to do with the hobby.Let it go, and go live your life.🤔🤔



the way, how I feel about the subject IS my business and you should practice what you preach.


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## Monarkman (Apr 16, 2022)

Oldbikeguy1960 said:


> I did at the beginning of MY thread indicate it was an opinion. At the end I opened it to courteous comments and opinions.
> Yours does not qualify as a courteous comment or useful opinion, therefore I must ask, if that is the best you can do please go find somewhere else to do it.
> If you cannot have respect for another person's thread stay off of it man.
> Rob



You are too easily offended. My response was simply responding to your whining, which you admitted to doing. Why is that so offensive?????


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## Nashman (Apr 16, 2022)

J-wagon said:


> Hi my name is Jack and I'm a newbie collector. Main focus bikes in $0 to $100 range within one hour drive and make into franken klunkers to ride. I like visiting CABE because it's a virtual bike museum with good pics and sometime I can contribute assistance.



Welcome to the Cabe. It can be whatever you want....well..almost.....


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## Jesper (Apr 16, 2022)

Hello all cyclists, restorers, refurbishers, repairers, customizers, collectors, hobbyists, investors, hoarders, conservators, etc.

I find that I fall into all of the above descriptors and not just a single one.

Least of all I am a restorer since I prefer a bike kept as original as possible within reason. Poor original paint is much more exciting to me than a gleaming new paint job. After hundreds of bikes passing through my hands, I believe that I have yet to restore one of them; even the very few that appear to be 100% perfect.

I am foremost a cyclist since I have ridden whatever I could ride, at any age, to satisfy a particular need; be it recreational, competition, commuting, commercial or personal on dirt, grass, pavement, and/or ice for trips from 1 mile to over a 1000 miles. Cycling was and still is freedom for me and one of my greatest guiltless pleasures. I have had a bike (road) with me nearly 100% of time when possible since I was in my 20s, and that allowed me to explore the world and meet more people in a way that was impossible by most other means. If I did not have a bike to ride I would find one and fix it; e.g. I worked out of town, found a $15 girl's mtb at a thrift shop and rebuilt it for 2 months use. Returned and donated the same and now fully functional bike to the same thrift shop weeks later and told them they could now sell the bike for a lot more if they desired.

Next I am most regularly a repairer; having started by fixing (with my dad) my old kid's bikes, and then my own personally purchased bikes. I have only used a service shop 10 ten times in my life (riding over 50 years); 4 of those experiences were negative and caused me to learn more and of course acquire more tools. Greatest joy comes from fixing and providing another individual with a safe, comfortable, and enjoyable bike to ride.

Next would be conservator. I find it interesting to have a bike (or part) that no one seems to have much information about and it seems has never been of any particular interest. Often the bike has no extreme intrinsic value or particular features that make it any different from most other bikes other than its general or specific history. Because of this interest my curiosity has enabled me to converse and correspond with folks from around the world (like on this site!). This happens much more frequently with European bikes due to the multitude of small volume local bike builders. I have gotten to know many cyclists and have been able to profit from their knowledge, some actually helping with procurement of parts and bikes which I would never find locally, or be able to afford if buying online.

Hoarder comes next, but not for the reasons one might assume. My bikes and parts are not thrown into a heap and allowed to deteriorate; they are, however, cataloged, labelled, and properly stored to avoid deterioration/damage. I amassed parts and frames early on and assumed prices for early road bikes would be increasing in 5 to 10 years; nevermind in 20 plus years (been actively rebuilding bikes for 30 yrs) so I bought more parts than needed at the time, and I now avoid paying the higher (often inflated) prices (10%-50% increase) for those same parts; nevermind the increased costs for shipping and taxes. It also allows me to sell inventory to find better or more appropriate and expensive parts without feeling the financial affect due to the higher resale cost of my earlier purchases. This has also allowed me to sell at lower prices and still be able to profit myself while still providing a reasonable cost to buyers.
To me true hoarding is merely the repetitive accumulation of something with no end goal in sight other than to add another item; especially if what you are amassing does not actually provide any real enjoyment, and only provides the continued complusion to add the next item.

I am certainly an investor since one retirement goal was to be able to have my prior and present interests provide a means (albeit limited) of support  for me while not receiving a standard flow of revenue income. I know that even with the selling of my parts and bikes at lower than present market values; I will still be able to subsist for years on that income. That being said, I only have 2 "investment" bikes I have never ridden (I essentially have duplicate copies of them to ride) be they 1 or 100 years old. Again, the joy of riding trumps having a bike sitting idle just gathering dust.

Although I have customized a couple bikes it has never involved frame or fork alteration other than minor "cold-setting" of the rear fork. My customizations are merely dreams I've put on paper without expectations of them becoming reality.
I merely fit parts that I feel are appropriate to the use of the bike, or provide a better period correct bike but with upgraded performamce.

I do believe, in general, that parts/bikes should not be wall art. Most of the beauty comes from the seeing and hearing the flawless (I hope!) operation of a bike, and feeling the knowledge that you are enjoying the same freedom of spirit that the very first user experienced on that same bike; as well as being able to provide that same joy to a future owner. I also have bikes willed for the return to the original shop since they no longer have a representative example of their own product.

I always provide a perspective buyer with as much provenance and history I know, but I also try to test their knowledge and "biking background" which often kills a sale since it becomes clear that a frame will be stripped of parts and just sold for "flipping" value. I may not know what you will do with the bike, but if you tell me it may be the last time we have a conversation pertaining to the purchase. If you want to melt it down for scrap then just keep it to yourself and I'll be none the wiser.

If one good thing came from COVID, it would be the revitalized interest in cycling amoung the general public. Many of whom bought a brand new department store or online bike, others purchasing bike shop brands, some who decided to buy an older used bike, as well as those who dusted off the old garage bike. Unfortunately, I believe that there will glut of those same bikes (many probably barely ridden whether bought new or used) hitting the resale market (probably happening already) in the coming months and years. It will be interesting to see what affect it has on the classic bike market since in many cases people were paying premium prices in some locations for bikes that usually would sell for much less, but due to the lack of the availability of new or newer used bikes allowed for a slight boom in the vintage bike market. Also, the vintage bike market might get a boost in inventory due to people selling their "antique" for a modern ride, or those realizing that they are never going to ride their old bike (or any bike) again; and are now wanting to just clear out the "junk".


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## Boris (Apr 16, 2022)




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## PlasticNerd (Apr 16, 2022)

I’m all of the categories plus more! And I have some very cool stuff hanging in my shop, my garage, my shed and in a couple of big display cases. You never know when you will need a part!!! I even display parts in my entryway sometimes. I take huge loads of parts to swap meets for others to buy, and come home with more than I came with sometimes! I have 3 violet stingrays and sent you a pm on a 3 speed I’d be willing to sell to you. Have a great day everyone.


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 16, 2022)

Monarkman said:


> You are too easily offended. My response was simply responding to your whining, which you admitted to doing. Why is that so offensive?????



I am easily offended by people like you that have nothing good to say on a thread, especially another members thread. Actually, I thought my response was more polite and couteous than your post but that could be debated since I don't always play nice. Maybe some other members can let me know if I am the bad guy here.

Personally, I thought my original post offended you by your response. Are you a bystander or do you fit into one or more of the categories I have described?

My whining comment, more than anything was to take the edge off of an otherwise long post. I do that.

I read a bit before posting this, and I am not the only member to voice their opinion on this subject. That means that the subject should be up for members opinions. I asked for courteous responses. Let me clarify that I expect courteous responses. If you can put words together into a differing opinion without being rude I welcome your response.

My second response stands. You told me to mind my own business, yet by your response to my post you were not minding yours so that is the basis for my "practice what you preach" comment.

I asked once for you to please respond to my thread courteously. I will ask again. If you don't feel you can do that I hope you find a thread more suited to your disposition.
Rob


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## catfish (Apr 16, 2022)




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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 16, 2022)

Not my fault man. I want a discussion and have no problem with differing points of view. We made 6 pages staying on the path, and I hope this is just a blown tire and not a broken axle if you get my drift man.


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## vincev (Apr 16, 2022)

I am probably the first type.I have too many really nice bikes and I like keeping them in buildings and look at them.All are in riding condition and I could ride any one I want. I am not hurting anyone by hoarding my bikes.I enjoy them and my old cars.They are paid for and not hurting the hobby,I enjoy the hunt for things.I consider those that buy a nice original and strip it down to be the bottom feeders of any hobby but they can do what they want with their bikes and they do serve a purpose in an odd sort of way. Without  them there would be no swap meets.


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## Jesper (Apr 16, 2022)

vincev said:


> I am probably the first type.I have too many really nice bikes and I like keeping them in buildings and look at them.All are in riding condition and I could ride any one I want. I am not hurting anyone by hoarding my bikes.I enjoy them and my old cars.They are paid for and not hurting the hobby,I enjoy the hunt for things.I consider those that buy a nice original and strip it down to be the bottom feeders of any hobby but they can do what they want with their bikes and they do serve a purpose in an odd sort of way. Without  them there would be no swap meets.



I agree with these statements. If you are to enjoy your collection/hoard than it serves a positive purpose. Finding certain parts (especially mint or rare parts) is always "hit or miss"; as I have just been witness to, and happily a "hit" (this time!). I do see the need for used parts replenishment. I primarily speak of road bikes with either OE parts, or upgrade components of the same model year/period. I know there are plenty of road bikes out there (at least in Europe) with great parts; but where the frames are damaged or overly worn relating to aesthetics, function, and/or repairability. There are various companies I have done business with in Europe that are essentially "chop shops" of classic road bikes, and are inflating the market value for parts and frames. The best deals are with small resellers that don't change out or remove parts because of the time, effort, and tools required; but who are a professional step above craigslist style average dealers and without the added costs for ebay type sales and account fees.
I don't know what the parts availability is for US roadsters, balloon tire, and other bikes; but I still hope nice looking frames are not stripped of parts. Always nice to have an original bike from decades ago that hasn't been changed except tires/tubes and functions well, but with signs of use.


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## Gully (Apr 16, 2022)

I smell a cowboy several posts back.


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## catfish (Apr 16, 2022)




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## DRCA (Apr 16, 2022)

The world just ain't fair kids.


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## Handle Bar Hoarder (Apr 16, 2022)




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## Dra (Apr 16, 2022)

I saw people if you can call them people back in the 80’s at auctions buy crate and store (mini warehouse) motorcycles and later see the bike sell for twice the price. Easy to store many. This people were wall street investors at the time. Tax easy. There’s not jack anyone can do. So disappointing. Maybe that’s the reason why kids have no interest in so many of our hobbies


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 16, 2022)

Jesper said:


> Hello all cyclists, restorers, refurbishers, repairers, customizers, collectors, hobbyists, investors, hoarders, conservators, etc.
> 
> I find that I fall into all of the above descriptors and not just a single one.
> 
> ...



You embosy the best qualities of the categories I listed, as well as a category or two I did not. Thank you for your post, it was a very interesting take on what I discussed. You are a person who moderates all of the best qualities of aspects of this or any hobby that too often get trampled in the rush to have it all, or make more money all the time without concern for the hobby or others or amass a huge collection no one else could ever have a chance to enjoy.
Thanks for your involvement in this lifestyle.
Rob


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 16, 2022)

Dra said:


> I saw people if you can call them people back in the 80’s at auctions buy crate and store (mini warehouse) motorcycles and later see the bike sell for twice the price. Easy to store many. This people were wall street investors at the time. Tax easy. There’s not jack anyone can do. So disappointing. Maybe that’s the reason why kids have no interest in so many of our hobbies



My point in a nutshell. Thank you.
Rob


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## Freqman1 (Apr 17, 2022)

I tend to be a glass half full type of guy and every time I see a post that talks about the demise of the hobby or what's ruining it I just shake my head. Come to Memory Lane and Monroe at the end of the month and tell me how you think the hobby is doing!


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 17, 2022)

Freqman1 said:


> I tend to be a glass half full type of guy and every time I see a post that talks about the demise of the hobby or what's ruining it I just shake my head. Come to Memory Lane and Monroe at the end of the month and tell me how you think the hobby is doing!



Thanks for the response and I understand your point man, but didn't mean the hobby is dying. The Mopar muscle car market hasn't died (yet). That happens when the last of the Era of people who originally owned or wanted to own them has passed.

Had the prices not skyrocketed into second mortgage range, or affluent class people investing in them for extra retirement money maybe a new generation of average Joes (or Josies) may have carried the torch so to speak. Two cases in point.
Before anyone makes a rude comment I would like to say yes, I do understand Supply and Demand, Free Market and the theory of Capitalism. I had Economics classes in high school when they still taught that subject. That is why I am so appalled at this not being understood by a good number of members here.

1). A couple in my hometown had a beautiful original 1927 Ford Model T (corrected) convertible. They bought it  over half my lifetime ago and rarely took it out. When they did they always had at least one offer to buy but they never felt the money was a good enough profit to sell. About 10 tears ago I saw it for sale at their home, but never saw anyone stop. The price finally got down to $2500 before I never saw it again. They owned it for 40 years and in the end sold it for probably less than they paid for it in the 1980s. Plus they stored it in a climate controlled garage and rarely took it out to enjoy it.

2). The Mopar market went crazy about 25 years ago when some members of my generation got into a position to buy one. Prices went thru the roof and suddenly the market went from finding running cars for $500 to buying rusty hulls that had been stripped bare for $5000. That was great for the sellers, and for a while the average guy was still hanging in there. Soon though it became like horse racing, a sport of Kings. 
A few years ago I was looking at a car sellers publication and I saw a listing that made me almost vomit on my waffles.

A seller had a 1972 Dodge DART 4 DOOR with a moderately built up 318, the Torqueflite 904 transmission and the gawdawful 7-1/4 rear end for sale at the princely sum of $18,000 American. When he built it you couldn't buy a 2 door and he wanted a Dart badly so he spent too much on a 4 door car and drove away a happy camper. Then when he tired of it and wanted to sell he saw 2 door Darts bringing $15-20k and thought his was worth that much as well
Everyone I knew made fun of the ad. I felt sorry for him in a way, he was the victim of his own desires for sure, but also of a market driven to unbelievable heights by ever increasing greed.
I don't know if it sold or what he got if it did. But I would bet my best pair of socks it was nowhere near $18,000 American.

Now it is bicycles, older stuff is going down in price. Musclebikes in particular have been making trips to the moon though. An earlier post commented on not being able to afford Musclecars anymore, but bikes for now are still reasonable in comparison. Those days are going away soon.  I am happy for all you guys who can afford a stable of awesome Krates, Super Deluxe Stingrays and other almost unobtainable bikes like almost NOS Sears Screamer 5 speeds or Huffy Rail 5 speed bikes.

Here is a deal you should not pass on since some of you think the current market is fair and affordable











But since not all of us can afford to pay $4000 to buy a pair of wheels to make our 1972 Disc Brake Krate roll again we can sit and look at our frames, repro forks and seats and dream. 

Once again, sport of Kings.

At that rate it will cost $10,000 American for a disc brake Krate soon. I looked on the Bay, I couldn't find a real Krate for sale with a disc brake at all and that is a rare thing. At the price of these wheels I am sure they are getting parted out since that is more profitable. Paying $10k for a child's bike that originally sold new for $120.00 is rather exorbitant in my mind.

I yield the floor to my illustrious club members.


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## HEMI426 (Apr 17, 2022)

I'm not usually one to correct something in a thread but a 1927 Ford is a Model T,  Model A's were 1928 - 31.


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 17, 2022)

You are right, I have a '27 T truck cab I have been meaning to build a street rod with for 10 years. I have most of what I need but metal skyrocketed so I am waiting on building the frame now.


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 17, 2022)

HEMI426 said:


> I'm not usually one to correct something in a thread but a 1927 Ford is a Model T,  Model A's were 1928 - 31.



I corrected it, and marked it corrected. Thanks man for not beating me up for my error. 😵🤛


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 17, 2022)

Here is an example of what I am talking about on parts and bikes. I know it will make someone mad, but it doesn't make me want to cheer and do backflips so here goes nothing-again.

The tire below was sold here at a very fair price a few days ago. This does not reflect badly on the seller. 
I cannot verify this but examining the two photos below, it would be hard to find 2 tires with identical cracking on the same letter.







Check the prices on this item.



Compared to this one






One of those deals I and probably a couple others missed by a minute or two.
Now someone can pay 4x as much plus shipping if they want it bad enough.

Like I said, I will probably get flak on this but I really don't care at this point. 
If someone did this on concert tickets it would be called scalping and a crime. In the hobby world it is just business as usual.
Rob


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## Freqman1 (Apr 17, 2022)

Showing a set of wheels that actually sold for that would be germane to the conversation. As far as ‘fair’ goes as long as a buyer and seller reach an agreement that both are happy with that is fair. Affordable is a separate issue. Seems like the real rub here is that you’re upset about being priced out of a market. I don’t lament the days of $4500 Autocycles and accept that I probably won’t own another. That’s just the way things is! V/r Shawn


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## Jimmy V (Apr 17, 2022)

You are entitled to your opinion, and yes, sometimes life doesn't seem fair. Many of us might feel the frustration of not being able to easily obtain a desired bike. Keep the hunt going, maybe someday you'll be blessed by a lucky find or a great deal. 
I don't let this stuff bother me. It doesn't keep me from enjoying the hobby. Much of what you mention is out of our individual control. 
At least the collectors and "hoarders" are preserving the bikes. I'm glad they are, maybe someday I'll be able to get one that I want..
And many of them are very knowledgeable people that have a lot to offer the hobby. 
Investors? I try to be smart and pay a fair price. Sometimes I'll make a little money to reinvest into the hobby.. I could be mad at them, or just choose not to pay those prices. And I enjoy seeing the rare and cool stuff. 

 I just play at a level that I can afford to (or am willing to pay) and have fun. I started in the hobby around 2010 with Schwinn Middleweights. I can have a lot of fun on a quality American made $50 bicycle and I've had many.  My first trip to Ann Arbor was in 2010 and I was blown away by all of the great stuff. I haven't missed one since, and eagerly await the meets this year. 

I have since learned a whole lot, and with some gained knowledge and exposure have evolved into collecting some pretty interesting bikes. There are a whole lot of bikes out there that I'd like to own but can't afford. And I'm ok with that. I'm glad for the people that do own them and share them by riding them or showing them here. And I've met a lot of good people that I'm thankful to know.


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## PCHiggin (Apr 17, 2022)

Oldbikeguy1960 said:


> Thanks for the response and I understand your point man, but didn't mean the hobby is dying. The Mopar muscle car market hasn't died (yet). That happens when the last of the Era of people who originally owned or wanted to own them has passed.
> 
> Had the prices not skyrocketed into second mortgage range, or affluent class people investing in them for extra retirement money maybe a new generation of average Joes (or Josies) may have carried the torch so to speak. Two cases in point.
> Before anyone makes a rude comment I would like to say yes, I do understand Supply and Demand, Free Market and the theory of Capitalism. I had Economics classes in high school when they still taught that subject. That is why I am so appalled at this not being understood by a good number of members here.
> ...



If somebody with deep pockets or their priorities are bikes first wants to pay a certain price all good. If a seller has 10 Areocycles and won’t sell any of them, that’s ok. I suspect you were taught different lessons in “fairness” than somebody my age (62)  And weren’t taught anything about free markets.  I was 60 before I could justify buying a car I really wanted. Being young with little money or middle age with a family set my priorities in a different direction. As time went on my hard work allowed me to do other things. Our  country,since I was 40, became much wealthier, for certain people, people willing to work harder, some  with a lot of education and some willing to take a chance starting  their own business and some both. This drove up the prices of lots of cool stuff. NOT EVERYBODY CAN AFFORD THE THINGS THEY WANT. If you don’t like the state of the hobby, work harder,make more money so you can afford the pricey stuff. I guarantee if you get there, you’ll think the prices and availability are just fine.


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 17, 2022)

PCHiggin said:


> If somebody with deep pockets or their priorities are bikes first wants to pay a certain price all good. If a seller has 10 Areocycles and won’t sell any of them, that’s ok. I suspect you were taught different lessons in “fairness” than somebody my age (62)  And weren’t taught anything about free markets.  I was 60 before I could justify buying a car I really wanted. Being young with little money or middle age with a family set my priorities in a different direction. As time went on my hard work allowed me to do other things. Our  country,since I was 40, became much wealthier, for certain people, people willing to work harder, some  with a lot of education and some willing to take a chance starting  their own business and some both. This drove up the prices of lots of cool stuff. NOT EVERYBODY CAN AFFORD THE THINGS THEY WANT. If you don’t like the state of the hobby, work harder,make more money so you can afford the pricey stuff. I guarantee if you get there, you’ll think the prices and availability are just fine.



Not to be rude but I feel some of you were a little bit so sue me.
You did not read this thread or even this post straight thru or you wouldn't have missed some key information.

1). I am 62 in June. 
2). I had at least 2 years of economics in high school
3). I grew up in the same era you did but apparently in a friendlier place
4). I am disabled, and on disability. I have not much hope of "working harder" to get what I want and disability has not kept pace with inflation.
Make $850 a month with no way to make much more and tell me how many bike parts you can afford once you pay your bills.
5). I should not even have to tell anyone my personal business here but I am damn tired of hearing that I could have more if I worked harder or looked harder or drove farther or whatever else the armchair quarterbacks think I should do.

Now that those points are cleared up, do you have anything constructive to say? I asked in the beginning for courtesy and respect in the comments and not too many of rhe people that disagree with my point of view here have done as I asked.
If I had this to do again I might have closed the thread to comments but that isn't how I think. I believe in allowing opposing points of view, but I expect people our age to respect others wishes and points of view, especially ones our age who grew up in a different climate.
I was making an observation, an observation with factual evidence to back up my observation. The point is that yes, we can't always get what we want. Hard work will make up for some of that if it is an option. I do not expect a handout, or for someone to feel sorry for me, but I also do not expect to be insulted, talked down to and berated by people because they don't like what I have to say.
Maybe a lot of the people I am getting this treatment from fit one or more of my profiles here and don't want to admit it to others or themselves. That is your choice. I am not telling anyone what they can or cannot do but I am trying to point out that sooner or later it will be time for you all to take your turns on the wheel of life. When that day comes and nobody wants to hear what you have to say, remember this conversation and your responses to my concerns.
Rob


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## razinhellcustomz (Apr 17, 2022)

kreika said:


> The group that makes me sad are the ones that never let anything go. Then they die and it all gets thrown away by some annoyed relative who sees it all as junk. I hear vintage bike parts screaming in the metal crusher. “Save me”. 🤣



I have a brother like that.. So DAMN cheap he SQUEAKS when he walks... He's got TONS of cool old stuff and won't sell, barter trade none of it.. Just sits their and rots dill Dooms day.. Really PISSES me off..


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Apr 17, 2022)




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## razinhellcustomz (Apr 17, 2022)

HEMI426 said:


> I'm not usually one to correct something in a thread but a 1927 Ford is a Model T,  Model A's were 1928 - 31.



He did say Model T although they never made convertibles.. They were known as "ROADSTERS"....


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 17, 2022)

razinhellcustomz said:


> He did say Model T although they never made convertibles.. They were known as "ROADSTERS"....



i made a correction, i meant Model T but for some reason typed Model A.


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## mr.cycleplane (Apr 18, 2022)

rob-your opening statement for this thread is an attack on about 85% of the people here on the c.a.b.e. and the hobby itself. there seems to be also an underlined tone of resentment for those more fortunate than yourself. you are trying to silence most of us by asking for praise only/courtesy on your comments-in other words you are trying to control the threads direction-to your favor. at almost every comment you have backpedaled and reclarified yourself-in some cases-almost a reversal of your original thought. it seems you have nothing to do but play a game of 'forum engage' instead of bringing something positive to the table about our hobby. if life hands you a lemon-make lemonade out of it. there will always be greater and lesser than yourself.


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## catfish (Apr 18, 2022)

mr.cycleplane said:


> rob-your opening statement for this thread is an attack on about 85% of the people here on the c.a.b.e. and the hobby itself. there seems to be also an underlined tone of resentment for those more fortunate than yourself. you are trying to silence most of us by asking for praise only/courtesy on your comments-in other words you are trying to control the threads direction-to your favor. at almost every comment you have backpedaled and reclarified yourself-in some cases-almost a reversal of your original thought. it seems you have nothing to do but play a game of 'forum engage' instead of bringing something positive to the table about our hobby. if life hands you a lemon-make lemonade out of it. there will always be greater and lesser than yourself.




Well said.


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## dasberger (Apr 18, 2022)




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## Frank and Pam Skid Kings (Apr 18, 2022)




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## catfish (Apr 18, 2022)




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## Rusty McNickel (Apr 18, 2022)

Stylishly late to the party, I realize but let me just say this about that. I don't fit into any of these pigeon holes. 

What's more, anyone that forks over the cash can do pretty much anything they want with the goods. They own it.

I've been fortunate to acquire some pretty cool stuff over the years.  I've always spent within my means and remained responsible.  And I can see that at some point it will be prudent to part with my stuff so as to not burden my family with that chore. I also heard that the tolls on the highway to hell are quite high and there is no easy pass. 

I envision the last piece I will have will be the duplicate of a used red 1961 26" JC Higgins my dad got me for xmas about 1968 or so when all the kids were rockin Schwinn sting rays, or those who could afford them. To his credit it was in very good condition but I was otherwise horrified. It was the base model, a 50's throwback, tank bike wanna-be, given to a kid who just wanted a sting ray and Chuck Taylor's instead of PF Flyers. 

I stripped the bike, painted it black and yellow, the colors of my future brother in laws racing Triumph and turned it into my sting ray. I never mastered the wheelie. The frame was too gangly for my undersized physique but it was no longer the embarrassment that I originally received.... or percieved. 

A few years after I caught the collecting bug, I stumbled upon the very Higgins from my childhood on ebay. It was a bit overpriced and a pick up only in Indiana so I passed it by. It kept popping up on my feed as if to haunt me. I looked up the town and it was only a few miles from my sis in Merrillville. Done deal. 

This time around, the bicycle will remain intact. It has been a life lesson for me in humility, appreciation and gratitude. None of which I can show towards my dad at this point.

All of our stuff has some kind of meaning to us and to do what we want with. We collect to the delight of ourselves and unfortunately at times to the disdain of others. If it's played out right, the Higgins will be the last in the stable. It's not worth a lot but it's value to me is treasurable. And if it goes to the curb after they are done cleaning up after me I'm pretty certain one of you CABERS will snatch it up.

There will come the day when we and our treasures must part. I think the chances of these treasures going to waste are very slim. And the cycle continues.


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 22, 2022)

dasberger said:


> View attachment 1609164



I guess it is my dead horse and I will flog it until I decide to stop or all of my sticks are broken.


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 22, 2022)

catfish said:


> View attachment 1609188



End? Hell, I am just getting started!


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## vincev (Apr 22, 2022)

Take a deep breathe and lets start this thread over,The horse came back to life


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## vincev (Apr 22, 2022)

i like when some people get angry when you wont sell or you ask too much. I feel that if I do all the legwork and pay up for what I want why would I sell the item for little or no profit,Most likely wont sell at all.


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 22, 2022)

I understand wanting to make a profit. on another thread we are talking about things our elders told us. An older guy i know had an automotive wrecking yard. when he died he was worth well over $1,000,000 not counting his Life Insurance.
He told me "You don't have to make a lot of money on one part as long as you make money on all your parts." He was a great friend, veteran,  business owner, and husband.
I figured if it worked for him it was good enough for me.
Amother more grumpy wrecking yard owner once said. "You can't go broke making a profit but you can go broke trying to."
basically similar info. Are all wrecking yard owners philosophers?

Yes, they are your parts, and you a
have time work and money in finding them. You can do what you want with them.
If you want a high price sooner or later someone will buy it. If the concept of fairness and courtesy are too radical to belong here, I fear there is no hope of meeting anywhere near the middle. 

I don't mind if you wish to share opinions, thats why I started it. But some of you seem to take offence to me believing that prices on bike parts have reached hyperinflated levels like musclecars and vintage bikes and I fear it is going to break the hobby one day. Maybe sooner than we want. 
Three Thousand dollar Disc Brake Krate rear wheels will be as valuable as the average paperweight. Thats what happens evert time you price the little guy out of the market.

I still remember when I started this thread I asked for everyone to be respectful and civil toward each other when responding. That concept seems to have gone out the window. 

Well, not always but more times than I want to admit. One or two of those may have even been me. You know what they say about prodding the bear.

If we can agree to discuss this matter respectfully that is great. If anyone wants an argument go somewhere else because i am not listening to any more rude comments.
Play Fair guys
Rob


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## Boris (Apr 23, 2022)

Oldbikeguy1960 said:


> If anyone wants an argument go somewhere else because i am not listening to any more rude comments.



Good call. For anyone wanting an argument or to make a rude comment, visit the attached thread and get it off your chest. 


			https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/the-vincev-and-boris-argument-thread.121632/


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## Rusty McNickel (Apr 23, 2022)

Boris said:


> Good call. For anyone wanting an argument or to make a rude comment, visit the attached thread and get it off your chest.
> 
> 
> https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/the-vincev-and-boris-argument-thread.121632/



I'm quite comfortable and happy to argue on this thread, thank you. I wont do it. I WON'T.


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## Lamont (Apr 27, 2022)

Just take Tumeric.

cures everything.  


This way , you can outlive 'em ....  Id make it a mission to  be there when one of those violet Ray hoarders gets divorced , or better yet , dies. 










They are out there....


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Apr 27, 2022)

Lamont said:


> Just take Tumeric.
> 
> cures everything.
> 
> ...



Thanks man, that photo woke up hope in me.
After seeing the 1968 Orange Krate I ordered a case of Tumeric.
Will that last more than a month?


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## Lamont (Apr 27, 2022)

Case is like a life supply .....  doenst take much ...

more than a enough to outlive those crank suckers biddin up Sting Rays and  S Ray disc wheels .....


Keep the faith !


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## sambo42xa (Apr 30, 2022)

Yep, it goes for all hobbies. I made the comment, “people waiting for it to turn to gold” frequently on a different forum and when I finally found the part/s the seller wouldn’t sell it to me because he didn’t like my comments….and He was one of the ones on your list.
I pretty much made The same observations as you did.
I was searching for old WWII motorcycle part/s at the time.
Recently I started selling off my bike/parts collection and folks were asking me “ why are you selling…”? I tell them, I’ve had my fun and now it’s time for someone else too. Now, these are not high end bikes or parts, but they have taken up room and it’s time to move on. Hell, I’m retired now and when I go to move I don’t plan on taking my collection of antiques, toys, etc. with me.
The Only bikes I’m keeping are my dads 1939 Roamer and my 1972 MantaRay. My kids know what they are worth, and I told them that when I’m gone they are yours to do whatever. 
I’m sure your “violet StingRay” is sitting in someone’s basement that they forgot entirely of because it’s buried in the corner somewhere (like my motorcycle part/s) or hanging on the wall waiting for it to turn into gold….Your list will always be there with every hobby. That’s just how ppl are. Move on and search elsewhere And you will find your bike. Good luck!


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## 62typhoon (Jun 14, 2022)

Every time I see that orange hoodie I know Rob will have something interesting to say...take it good or bad, controversial, stir the pot... I give Rob credit for saying what he thinks and throwing it out there ....makes for good discussion and to hear the many different views, that what's makes us human and who we are....Thanks Rob


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Jun 14, 2022)

62typhoon said:


> Every time I see that orange hoodie I know Rob will have something interesting to say...take it good or bad, controversial, stir the pot... I give Rob credit for saying what he thinks and throwing it out there ....makes for good discussion and to hear the many different views, that what's makes us human and who we are....Thanks Rob



Thanks to you as well for being in the minority of those who believe this is still a free society with the right to speak out about what's on your mind. Whether it is PC in that group or not.
I was considering changing the photo to me with my GT TeamRTS and my BC Rich Platinum Warlock guitar. Since I was told it was all about me and 5 pages long I figured that photo was ideal.
Now I am going to leave well enough alone since this is more visible.
The other photo is my avatar at RatRodBikes still the same name.
Thanks again, Rob


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## Vicious Cycle (Jun 14, 2022)

It's a fact, some people like to "hoard" things. Folks that think this is a bad thing are always two steps behind the deal.
I have never heard of someone that collected say Ferrari's,(insert any quality item here), for years, called a hoarder, he will be a "curator" at his estate auction.
Where would this hobby be if everything in basements, attics and man-caves, became available all at once ? What would become of the "the thrill of the hunt" ?
Dead boring.
Just remember, You can't have everything, where would you put it .


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## cyclingday (Jun 14, 2022)

George Carlin

“Stuff”

Check it out.


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## catfish (Jun 14, 2022)

Ultimately all of us are just caretakers. Yes I have a lot of stuff, but I sell just as much as I buy. I buy what I like. Sometimes my interests change and I want something different. Variety is the spice of life!  In the end, all of my stuff will be passed on to others with the same passion, and they will become caretakes until they pass an item on. 

 When I got into Bikes over 30 years ago, there were many huge collections. Some have been liquidated. Some have yet to be seen. I didn't complain because other people had those bikes. I went out and found my own. 

 This is a hobby. Not a competition. And not a job. 

 Buy what you like. 

    Catfish


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## Oldbikeguy1960 (Jun 14, 2022)

Vicious Cycle said:


> It's a fact, some people like to "hoard" things. Folks that think this is a bad thing are always two steps behind the deal.
> I have never heard of someone that collected say Ferrari's,(insert any quality item here), for years, called a hoarder, he will be a "curator" at his estate auction.
> Where would this hobby be if everything in basements, attics and man-caves, became available all at once ? What would become of the "the thrill of the hunt" ?
> Dead boring.
> Just remember, You can't have everything, where would you put it .



I don't want everything. To me there is no thrill of the hunt. The thrill to me comes when I have it.
A poor crazy person is called crazy, a rich crazy person is called eccentric. Hoarders or curators fall in the same parameters. Remember a few years back the rash of shows about hoarders, and people going in to clean their stuff out and free them from the burdens of all the stuff they accumulated but didnt need?
Not many reality shows about guys curating things though, at least in my world.
I am not saying anyone has to feel as I do, or dump all their stuff on the market to make me happy.  Here is the scenario as I see it. I use the term items as a generic term because all the hobbies and lifestyles are suffering from this same situation.

Before the investors got involved a person that wanted a particular item could usually find one in reasonable shape and mostly complete. It was not necessary to spend years and hundreds or thousands of dollars on hard to find parts that were being held until the prices were at the level needed to make a big profit.
 Then the investors stepped in and bought up all the items they could get their hands on, sold the best at much higher prices to other investors and parted everything else out eliminating all the excess in the market that would lower the prices of the items they were investing in.
Now there is a captive market on the item, and they can charge whatever they feel like and you can buy it or not.
Ten years ago I built an entire December 1971 Disc Brake Orange Krate from parts including a frame from a show bike and a complete 6-71 disc brake wheel. The whole bike cost less to build than the rear wheel sells for now.
Or what about the Cook Brothers cruiser bike on eBay? The last I saw I was over $60,000 and still had not hit reserve. For a bike that wasnt even that popular in its day.
I am not trying to make enemies here, although this and another thread has done so to the point one member and I had to be put on mutual ignore. Sometimes I guess I strike a nerve. If that is so bad I don't know what to say. It strikes my nerve to accept that a Krate disc wheel can be on the market for $2700 and the going rate for complete drum brake hubs is approaching $500. It seems like that's ok with a lot of people as long as nobody complains about it.
It isnt so much the hoarders, or collectors I am focused on herr, It is the Investors that drive up markets to unbeluevable prices and when the bottom falls out they take a lot of people with them that bought these items at hyperinflated prices and now are unable to get out of them and brake even. It is happening now in the A body Mopars and a couple other hobby items i have been involved in.
Hope this post doesn't go south on me.

My name is Rob, and I approve this rant


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## SirMike1983 (Jun 14, 2022)

Many of these parts and bikes are subject to a wider market now. Twenty-five years ago sales and trading were mostly in-person or perhaps by photos and paper mail. One had to cast about for parts, spending days looking for things. Today many parts are found many times faster just by going on the internet, which means more buyers have access to a limited supply of vintage parts. Thus higher accessible demand and a finite supply for many things.

Time being money, if one were to put a dollar value on the time saved cast about, mailing, driving around, it could be that in many cases the prices are much closer than the written tag would suggest. Yes, they cost more in terms of sticker price now, but you're also not driving 3 hours each way to a swap meet in 1997 where there's a 10% chance the part you need will even show up. How much is time worth to you? It could be a lot.

And add to that inflation, which has been steady over the years and worse recently. A dollar in May 2022 would only buy $0.55 in June 1997. 

Certainly some things are more valuable now and some things less valuable, but there's more to total value than a pure sticker-to-sticker comparison.

Time spent thinking about these things is better spent riding. I'm sure someone could study all this and make interesting findings, but it ultimately is time lost from other and better doings, I think.


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## catfish (Jun 14, 2022)

SirMike1983 said:


> Many of these parts and bikes are subject to a wider market now. Twenty-five years ago sales and trading were mostly in-person or perhaps by photos and paper mail. One had to cast about for parts, spending days looking for things. Today many parts are found many times faster just by going on the internet, which means more buyers have access to a limited supply of vintage parts. Thus higher accessible demand and a finite supply for many things.
> 
> Time being money, if one were to put a dollar value on the time saved cast about, mailing, driving around, it could be that in many cases the prices are much closer than the written tag would suggest. Yes, they cost more in terms of sticker price now, but you're also not driving 3 hours each way to a swap meet in 1997 where there's a 10% chance the part you need will even show up. How much is time worth to you? It could be a lot.
> 
> ...




Phone calls. Lots and lots of phone calls.....


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## tacochris (Jun 14, 2022)

catfish said:


> Phone calls. Lots and lots of phone calls.....



I think alot about the pre-internet parts hunting days with my dad.  I kinda miss it though because the adventure was kinda the memory as well as what you found if that makes sense.  We used to wake up before the sun every Saturday and hit all the local flea markets, then check all the ads we found in the paper during the week, drive thru neighborhoods on trash days, drive up into the country to flea markets....Some days you came home with something, some days you came home with nothing but I remember the adventures fondly.  One day you would go into a random neighborhood and spot a pile of bikes and BAM, best day ever.


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## Vicious Cycle (Jun 14, 2022)

Oldbikeguy1960 said:


> Ten years ago I built an entire December 1971 Disc Brake Orange Krate from parts including a frame from a show bike and a complete 6-71 disc brake wheel. The whole bike cost less to build than the rear wheel sells for now.



Then you made a very good investment, assuming you still have it.
I remember in high school, gold sold for $32 / oz. and a new Schwinn Paramount was just north of $200. About 7 oz. worth.
In todays $ what would you rather have a pile of ?
 I think this is more of a reflection on the buying power of the dollar these days, what seemed like alot 30 years ago is peanuts today.
Thank our lucky stars they haven't had a reality show about a bicycle hoarder that is found, alone, under a mountain of bikes, might create a stigma of the hobby.*

*apologies in advance if this has really happened to you or yours, any parallel to reality is purely coincidence.


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## Freqman1 (Jun 14, 2022)

Admittedly I've not been in this hobby as long as many of you but I have yet to run across one of these 'investors' of which you speak. I do know a few guys in the hobby who make a few dollars buying and selling but not what I would call investors so much as business people. Ten years is a long time ago and a lot of things have changed. Never thought I'd see $5 a gallon gasoline but its here. Complaining about the price of stuff won't change anything so either step up and pay or don't play. I collect within my means and do what makes me happy. That is what a hobby is supposed to be about. If you aren't happy then maybe its time to move onto something else. V/r Shawn


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## HEMI426 (Jun 14, 2022)

I don't know what today's gold price is but if you had the 7 ounces of gold now or the Paramount. The Paramount is worth about $300 give or take, the gold would be worth $12K- $14K give or take. If we knew then what we know now. We would all have a Bluebird or a '37 RM Supreme, (427 Cobra) etc.


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## catfish (Jun 14, 2022)

The only way to make a little money in the bicycle hobby is to start out with a lot of money....

 Every once in a while you can get lucky and make a good score and make some real money. But I prefer to invest in my 401k. All the bike stuff is for fun. If I can flip a few bikes to buy one that I want and not dip into my savings, all the better.


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