# Harley Motorcyke - sold quick on the bay!



## creebobby (Jan 5, 2011)

Listed last night, someone 'bought it now' this morning for $2350.  Too bad it wasn't me!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=230570157306&si=mX0qeI%252F2nOIEmbTyVG3XAwNUl00%253D&viewitem=#ht_500wt_1130


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## DonChristie (Jan 5, 2011)

I saw that, ridiculously expensive!


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## Adamtinkerer (Jan 5, 2011)

Rusty gold, man!!


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## redline1968 (Jan 5, 2011)

yes it is. here is mine.....


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## bricycle (Jan 5, 2011)

...yea, but that Rex cycle on here a few months back, made this small change...


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## redline1968 (Jan 5, 2011)

rex cycle?


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## dave the wave (Jan 5, 2011)

pics.are not very good quality.the fenders don't appear 1in.sided,the sprocket looks die cut.why would you take pics. in the shade? I wonder if people are starting to "antique look" bicycles now like they do to motorcycles.


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## bricycle (Jan 5, 2011)

redline1968 said:


> yes it is. here is mine.....




Hey, that's cool redline! Keep us updated on your progress....


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## redline1968 (Jan 6, 2011)

thank you bricycle.   that rex is on top  of rare for sure really cool bike.   it will be after my worlds fair paint work this summer.  I was thinking the same thing dave.  there are some fishy things with it.


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## chitown (Jan 6, 2011)

Totally looks bogus to me. Freshy painted on patina in my opinion. Sprocket was probably made on some water-jet auto-cad machine then thrown in the creek out back to get nice and rusty. You can see some dirt still in the sprocket, and that looks like 2010 vintage dirt to me. Fake patina is an art form and hard to tell sometimes, but this one looks freshly done. Just my 2 cents.


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## creebobby (Jan 6, 2011)

It might have all been rusted parts given an aged glaze of magical olive green hues (the color of money it seems.)
The third to last pic shows the rear fender clean and straight on - it looks like there are actual brush strokes in the different shades of color there.
A collection of parts forged together with a fake patina?
Not a bad collection of parts in any case.
Any other experts on these have two cents to throw in?
Any parts not correct?


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## chitown (Jan 6, 2011)

The brush strokes was what made me think painted patina. Kinda the opposite of parting out a bike. Parting together a bike maybe? I don't know about the specifics on correctness of the parts. But that sprocket has way too even a coating of rust to be vintage. Totally doesn't match the cranks patina.


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## bud poe (Jan 6, 2011)

Don't know if it's a fake or not (I agree the sprocket does not match the rest of the bike) but I think "distressing" can be cool if done right and NOT with the intention of passing it off as the real deal.  As maybe proven here, the "barn find" look is very difficult to re-create, mother nature has her own special way of treating these old beasts and you can tell the real McCoy when you see it up close.  
Bummer for the unknowing buyer i guess...


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## redline1968 (Jan 6, 2011)

fishy fishy.


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## slick (Jan 6, 2011)

I have a stupid question but isn't a Harley bike just a headbadge and sprocket essentially? The frame looks similar to most other motobikes of the era right? I can't see paying that cash for a headbadge and sprocket. Those sprockets can be done fairly easily on a waterjet and the badges have been popping up a lot lately on the bay. It would be different if it had distinct sheetmetal parts like rack, tank, fenders? I don't know? Just my dumb opinion.


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## redline1968 (Jan 7, 2011)

its not a stupid question. they are not the same. its is a completely different animal. frame construction is what sets them apart. just like the indian, elgin ect. they had distinct fenders and no tank except for one year only fork is different and the cranks are also. the one sold is not correct.  I did not know i had one till i compared it to a original. I found the correct colors hidden and asked a friend who has one which has a original that is not pictured in any web sites. he described the differences. this, along with the pictured models also some info on daves vintage bikes site and the flogging i got on this site.  and the original catalog i bought recently.   in essence alot of research.


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## creebobby (Jan 7, 2011)

There's some truth to Slick's question.
The HD Motocyke seems to be mostly a Davis built 'Sears Chief' bicycle repurposed for HD.  The major parts are all identical (to the non-connoisseur at least), and the Chief came out first.  The holes for the headbadge might have a different spacing - anyone know?
But I think Slick's question is 'What's in a name?  A Motobike by any other name would ride as sweet.'  Unless the name is Harley.  And then it rides sweeter.
I think it comes down to how much of the mysticism you buy into concerning the specialness of something having been originally sold out the doors of a Harley dealership in the late teens.  
It is frustrating that non-bonafide 'motocyke correct' imposters are so darn valuable.  Because I'd like to own and ride one!


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## redline1968 (Jan 7, 2011)

good question. I have the original sears catalog of the cheif moto bike.  they essentually the same but the cheif has a single peice construction where the seat tube clamp is connected  to the top tube. the harley has two peice.  the peerless and the master were two peice but they are only regular bike frames. seems using this construction helps separate the two brands.  also the drop stands are different because the adj screws are built different. the same applies to the dayton bikes except the head tubes have a large hole where the badges are applied.


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## bud poe (Jan 7, 2011)

Interesting stuff.  
The seller of this bike obviously knew about Harley bikes.  He refers to Harleys cast fork and truss rods, and how the sprocket had the "correct bevel" but no nickel left.  
I feel sorry for the poor individual who paid big bucks for this look-alike.  
Thanks everyone for all the helpful info...
PS.  To make matters more confusing, the Motorcyke illustration in the Harley catalog that Redline refers to shows a different frame geometry, where the straight part of the top tube is NOT parallel to the bottom horizontal tube....
www.blackdotmetalwerks.com


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## DonChristie (Jan 7, 2011)

And heres another...
http://cgi.ebay.com/HARLEY-DAVIDSON...836?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf4422bfc

only 7350.00


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## creebobby (Jan 7, 2011)

He ended the auction for the second one and the pictures are gone . . . .
I emailed him when it was still up asking if he had any other repro chainrings or headbadges or motocyke style frames and he said 'nope'. 

Redline1968, thanks for the info!  Those are subtle clues indeed.  Do you have any good close-up pics of the 2 piece seat clamp area and the drop stands you could post?  All the reference pics I have are low res-ish far away shots of complete bikes.
I saw that the original catalog page states both 20" and 22" frames.  Was it made in two sizes I wonder?


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## dave the wave (Jan 7, 2011)

*1920 Davis Bicycle*

here's a rare davis same as the 1920 motorcyke


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## dmk441 (Jan 8, 2011)

Great bike Dave, I love it, thanks for sharing.


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## chitown (Jan 9, 2011)

Seller took down ALL things for sale. I thought he had a ton of Harley stuff before. Weird stuff. And just to clarify, when I stated I thought it was "bogus" I was no way implying that the bike was being misrepresented somehow by the seller. Buyer beware is the rule I go by with ebay. If the pictures don't look right or the description is a little vague or missing important information then it's up to the buyer to do his or her research and base your bid on that info. It's those dang buy-it-now (regret-it-later) sales that make it tempting to just take the risk and buy it before someone else does. But because the ad said the pitch of the sprocket is correct but doesn't say it's original. This could cause some confusion for someone bidding on it. The pitch may very well be correct, doesn't make it original. Fine lines drawn fuzzy, lawyer talk, snake oil...buyer beware!


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## dave the wave (Jan 10, 2011)

*1920 H-D bicycle in H-D Museum*

here's the 1920 H-D bicycle they had in the traveling H-D Museum.


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## creebobby (Jan 14, 2011)

*1920 - Generation 2 Motorcyke*

That 1920 Motorcyke from the museum has the second type of frame with a lower truss bar on the frame and shorter head tube.  I can't tell if the metal on the seatpost area is double thick or not.
Does anyone know what year it switched to the later style, and if there were only the two styles of Motorcykes?


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## redline1968 (Jan 14, 2011)

according to my orig catalog (bud has copy) 1919 seems to be the last for that style the were produced in conjunction with the motocyke.  at the angle of the photo it is difficult to tell and their date would be wrong with my catalog 1920 date. should be 1919 or 1918


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## dave the wave (Jan 14, 2011)

you could be right.my bike and the one in the travl.museum could be 1918-19.what i like about the bike is that davis stamped made in U.S.America on the seat post down tube.i wish more H-D bicycle collectors would  chime in about this thread.


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## creebobby (Jan 15, 2011)

I've got the scans of the 1920 catalog that bud poe posted on his blog.  They're great!  Does anyone have any catalog scans of earlier or later HD bicycle catalogs or ads that they could share?
(The 1920 catalog is posted at www.blackdotmetalwerks.com)


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## redline1968 (Jan 15, 2011)

I think they sold bikes for 3-4yrs 18-21


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## kunzog (Jan 15, 2011)

I dont know what you consider the later style,  but Harley Davidson made bicycles in 1917, 1918, 1919, 1920 and 1921. Many different frame styles and the Motocycke had a few changes each year. Only the 1919 was made for a tank and the tank was extremely rare.


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## creebobby (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanks for the pics Kunzog!
Apparently the 1917 and 1919 bikes share a different frame style from the others (a lower frame truss bar and shorter head tube).  Looks like they went back and forth on which style was offered as the Motorcyke.  Question answered!
Does anyone have any pictures showing the tank, in catalog or real bicycle form?


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## kunzog (Jan 18, 2011)

only available for 1919 frame


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## bud poe (Jan 18, 2011)

Wow, never even seen a picture of one of those...Thanks for posting!
The whole Harley Davidson bicycle is such an interesting part of history because it embodies that ever-present dynamic between motorcycles and bicycles.  The bicycle "gave birth" to the mototcycle, and then spent several decades trying to emulate it's "child"...Fascinating stuff...
I can only hope to someday own a single part of a genuine HD bicycle, but you never know, right???


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## redline1968 (Jan 19, 2011)

you are a god.......


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## creebobby (Jan 21, 2011)

Those pictures made my day!
I think that tank is how we won WWI.


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## Talewinds (Jan 21, 2011)

I think there is a HD headbadge up on thE bay by the same guy...... $6,500???????


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## slick (Jan 21, 2011)

I thought the same thing about the badge but if you see his other pictures it's a whole bike.


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## Talewinds (Jan 21, 2011)

Ahhh, well at least there's a complete bike attached to it then.


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