# Oxalic Acid



## rickyd

Looking for advice, comments, having attempted several WD40 and steel wool makeovers I am wondering about OA for this bike. It is loaded with beautiful pinstripes and I know what happens when I get to rubbing. What amount acid to water? Does warm water make a difference? Does the acid dull paint that waxing will not bring back? I've had one guy here caution me about that on rims he done. I would just like to bring this back with og paint. Thanks for any reply, Rick


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## the tinker

*bar keepers friend*

Now I have a question here. I heard this bar keepers pal stuff is basically oxalic acid .
 no ingredients listed on can.  what amounts do I mix this to water for de rusting solution?
Help me ...please. tink.


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## jpromo

I filled a kiddie pool for the only complete frame I've done. I didn't measure how much powder I used, but it was probably under a cup for the whole pool. Warm water does make a big difference in how quickly it works. So I'd make it warm to cut the time it's in the water down. If the paint is far enough gone that you're leaning towards an OA bath, then you've probably already lost the luster in the paint anyway. There are solutions to try afterward.

As you pull pieces out, dry them out right away, air compressor, make sure to dry out the frame tubes, then hit it with WD-40. This is actually what WD-40 is made to do is Water Displacement. Run it all over, then you can later coat it in boiled linseed oil which will make the color pop back out.


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## the tinker

jpromo said:


> I filled a kiddie pool for the only complete frame I've done. I didn't measure how much powder I used, but it was probably under a cup for the whole pool.
> 
> Thank you jpromo, should I take the kids outta the pool first?  tink


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## Duck

I did a frame & fork + a set of fenders last winter. Winters here in MI rule out a pool to soak things, unless you want to set it up in the basement- not an option, for me. What I ended up doing was finding a couple plastic bags large enough to hold the stuff, mixed the OA and then wrapped the parts in wet paper toweling I soaked with the solution making sure everything was well covered ( at least 2 layers) Then I carefully put everything in the plastic bags and tied them tightly shut. Next day, I took it all apart and rinsed everything well in the laundry tub followed by a thorough  dry and WD-40 spray. I used less than a gallon of solution, and it worked just as well as a soak.


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## the tinker

*acid bath*

OK, here we go..... before I take the X 53 apart and stick it in this bar keepers pal stuff I figured I  would try it on some other junk first.  















  this junk is pretty rusty. 
we will see if one cup of Bar keepers mixed with hot water works.
The only container big enough to fit the fenders in was one she had her Christmas junk in so you see what I had to do. I will let this sit to about noon tomorrow. Its 8 pm. now.
lets just hope she dont go down to the junk room for anything before then.  If she does you guys can come over and get all my bikes for free cause tinker will be dead.   
lets hope I live to post pictures tomorrow  afternoon.


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## the tinker

Ok, tried the bar keepers friend.  dont work. If there is Oxalic acid in this stuff its too small of an amount to do anything.  glad I did not put the X53 in this stuff without trying it out first. I will be buying the full strength stuff through the mail as no one carries even the wood bleach anymore.   I think the E.P.A. might be behind this. 
lots of stuff seems to have been" reformulated " lately,  especially paints.    sure glad the government is protecting me.


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## chitown

*Go Green!*





I've had incredible results using 100% Lime Juice. No joke. Not sure how cost effective it is against oxalic acid but you don't have to worry about ratios. Just soak for 2-3 days and you will have white metal only showing. I've done several rusty chrome rims, lots of bars, cranks, bolts... the works... if it's rusty it gets the juice. I have a special way to make it go a long way and not need gallons to do the work.


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty

The juice method works because of citric acid. You can get it in powdered form on ebay ~ http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R1.TR12.TRC2.A0.H1.Xcitric+.TRS0&_nkw=citric+acid&_sacat=0

I can't tell you what it might/could do to paint and decals but it would probably be way safer than using something like muriatic acid which I have used before on small steel and brass items.

pap
.


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## the tinker

Last night I tried the bar keepers friend stuff in the bin pictured, very hot water, cup or so of powder.  very strong odor, not pleasant .  after all night soak 0 rust removed. Broke a few of the wifes christmas ornaments, but thankful that no harm to the bike stuff I soaked . I see oxalic acid is really cheap on line so I will order some.  like duck stated I will not use this inside. not supposed to get this stuff on you, and not  to good on the lungs.  best to do outside come spring. I bought a quart of this stuff called ACID MAGIC and this stuff will take a badly rusted rim and with only a parts brush going back and forth for a bit the rust was gone.  the stuff is re usable costs $8 a quart and hardly any fumes or smell.   I did use it outside. I submerged some rusty rocket ray lights in it and it cleaned them up nice. HOWEVER... it eats the aluminum light shield out so remove it. I soaked the lights 1 minute. I put a schwinn springer yoke submerged in it, and kind of forgot about it for a while. when I removed it the chrome was gone. so no long soaks for acid magic, but great on rims. not sure about the plating on spoke nipples. gets the rust off around them with no effort.  I intend to try the lime juice . Hey, I like the smell, and can strain the stuff after i am done, add some sugar and I can serve" green river" drinks to the kids and maybe the wife can make a key lime pie too.    
Thats the great thing about our hobby..... the whole family benefits.     I would like to hear everyones de rusting  stories, the good ones and the experments that didnt go too well.  
most of all what every ones favorite de rusting stuff is and why you like it.


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## bikiba

rickyd said:


> Looking for advice, comments, having attempted several WD40 and steel wool makeovers I am wondering about OA for this bike. It is loaded with beautiful pinstripes and I know what happens when I get to rubbing. What amount acid to water? Does warm water make a difference? Does the acid dull paint that waxing will not bring back? I've had one guy here caution me about that on rims he done. I would just like to bring this back with og paint. Thanks for any reply, Rick




I love this bikes colors

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## SirMike1983

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?32190-Old-paint-chrome-repair&p=173526#post173526

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?32190-Old-paint-chrome-repair&p=173691#post173691


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## mike j

I like Muriatic acid myself. Probably has to do with the need for instant gratification & lack of patience. Just slather it on, wipe, sand w/ fine steel wool,wait a few minutes, neutralize w/ water. Dry,  WD 40 & call it a day. Here are a couple of victims, before & after. Downside is, you don't want to get it on or in you, & use outdoors.


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## GTs58

Also use a respirator, kinda hard on your lungs. It also works great for dissolving the cement in your concrete.


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## ThegoodThebad&Therusty

We're sitting here discussing how to get rid of rust while these guys are discussing how to add it with "real rust powder coat" ~ http://forum.caswellplating.com/powder-coating-questions/8154-simulated-rust-powder-coat.html



pap
.


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## GTs58

I think SirMike's findings on OA that he posted in his link are pretty dang accurate and the same as mine. Only use OA on steel parts, a chrome plated alloy or any raw alloy along with galvanized metal will suffer in OA. As for Muriatic acid, I've never even thought about using that for rust removal. My friend that lived across the street owned a wrought iron business and he used Muriatic acid to rust metal. It's highly corrosive and it may cause you grief down the road. Here's a quote to save me the time. 

_Obviously you are determined to do this but just as with body work if you do you will in all likelyhood regret it. The problem is that although it will remove the rust you see (actually what you see is NOT rust, it is the already oxidized byproduct of the rusting process which you can not see) it will set in motion a process that will lead to more damage than you have now. Once the acid contaminates the iron (ESPECIALLY iron castings which tend to be somewhat porous) the chemical reaction that starts will be nearly impossible to stop. Some will say you simply need to neutralize the acid, much easier said than done, and while steps to do this will slow the damage it hardly ever stops it completely. The rust solutions both dissolve the oxide on the surface and convert it to a phosphate that tends to stop the rusting process, the Hydrochloric (Muriatic) acid on the other hand will dissolve the oxides but as far as stopping the rusting process it will be like throwing gasoline on a fire! I have battled this for years on mining equipment that was exposed to Sulfuric acid and I can tell you that once the metal is contaminated it can really make a mess. It is not as simple as removing the iron oxides that you can see you must take into account the chemical process that you are about to start, and this is one that you don't want any part of! Do yourself a favor and use Phosphoric acid because it will remove the oxides also but it will start the right chemical reaction that will leave the phosphate coating that will inhibit rust instead of accelerating it. The Phosphoric acid may take a little longer but it is definitely the better way to go, usually the fastest way out of something just leads right back in!  _

So has anyone ever used Turtle Wax's Chrome Polish and rust remover on their paint, or am I the only one?


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## the tinker

Back about 30 years ago I sanded down a car to re paint.  the hood and roof was bare metal , I could not finish it for a month or so and even though it was in the garage the surface got covered in a thin coating of rust because of the humidity in the damp garage. A buddy told me to "try muriatic acid, it works great "  I used it and all the rust came right off, however the next day it was right back, only it seemed to be "IN" the metal rather then on top of the metal like the fine coating of surface rust I removed in the first place.  I had to re sand the hood and roof to get rid of it.  had the car over 25 years , and never had any problems with the paint.
that acid is pretty rough though,as I recall the fumes were really bad.  Its really powerful stuff, Personally since my bad experience I wont use it again.    now I am wondering if this ACID MAGIC stuff is any better?    It says on the bottle "the safer replacement for muriatic acid "


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## Jeff54

About the same time you were sanding I were sand blasting a 41 Chevy and couldn't get a coating on it for about 4 days, so, it was exposed outside dry but out. . It didn't have must rust to begin with, a tad under the trunk lid needed to be blasted out. regardless, the paint company I'd consulted with advised me to use an acid, was a blend of muriatic. The idea seemed completely nutz, but I did. Accordingly,  Because I'd exposed the bare metal for any period of time,, 1 minute etc., for sure, microscopic rust was occurring so, washed it with the acid then  rinse heavily, dry ASAP and then primer. I watched for several years for that trunk lid rust to reappear but,, never did. In fact, it was years down the road before I could afford to finish painting it,, sat outside and I drove it in primer for 3-4 years. 2-3 year after I finished painting it, I needed to store it cheap. It sat exposed in a storage yard unkept, untouched, without protection No rust return. Then, THEN! I returned to transport/drive it 1,500 miles. At 2AM a drunk killed the trunk, rear ending me on the freeway. I was driving 55, and she was passed out, no lights and  pedal to the metal, who knows how fast, but FAST! .. Back to a different out door storage for litigation. a few years later,, even with the trunk smashed,, no rust return. 

Other times, before I did that bare metal acid etch,  on other cars, when trying to stop rust, those always rusted back. 

It was a long time ago but, If I recall correctly although, I don't remember  who made it or what however,  that acid treatment was suppose-to have etched and neutralized the metal at the same time. It worked!


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## Duck

FWIW; Apparently I'm getting apathetic to removing rust from chrome parts- what was once enjoyed, is now a dread. I finally broke down and bought a jug of EvapoRust. While it's far too spendy to fill a pool with, it's perfect for smaller parts, and reusable for quite a while, if recycled. I've found it to be very favorable to chromed parts- and overnight soak and parts are as bright as they'll ever again be,  I just hit 'em quick w/ Neverdull and they're ready to go, without all the polishing my fingers have come to hate. I bought it a China Freight...


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## GTs58

the tinker said:


> Back about 30 years ago I sanded down a car to re paint.  the hood and roof was bare metal , I could not finish it for a month or so and even though it was in the garage the surface got covered in a thin coating of rust because of the humidity in the damp garage. A buddy told me to "try muriatic acid, it works great "  I used it and all the rust came right off, however the next day it was right back, only it seemed to be "IN" the metal rather then on top of the metal like the fine coating of surface rust I removed in the first place.  I had to re sand the hood and roof to get rid of it.  had the car over 25 years , and never had any problems with the paint.
> that acid is pretty rough though,as I recall the fumes were really bad.  Its really powerful stuff, Personally since my bad experience I wont use it again.    now I am wondering if this ACID MAGIC stuff is any better?    It says on the bottle "the safer replacement for muriatic acid "




You should have used a Phosphoric Acid solution instead of Muriatic acid. After I strip frames, sand blast and sand the frames their are always spots of rust you cannot get to. When I'm done cleaning up the frames I hit them with Jasco metal prep an primer. Some body shops use a Phosphoric Acid solution that is/was made/sold by DuPont if the metal is really pitted. I'm pretty sure Schwinn's first coat of 4 advertised coats of paint was a coat of Phosphoric Acid.


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## rickyd

Thanks to all who posted, commented, advised. She is about 4 back but I will post pics when I'm done. Rick


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