# Is this cracked frame repairable?



## fire_strom (Nov 20, 2013)

I just got this frame and found there appears to be a crack at the head tube / down tube junction. The frame is a Columbia RX5 (80's repop). Is this rideable, repairable? Normal wire weld? Braze? I don't have the skill set to do it but I could find someone. 

Anyone know a source for the ivory touch up paint?

Thanks-
Scott


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## Muleman121 (Nov 20, 2013)

*Crack*

I think brazing would be best for that joint. I have had success many times. Get someone that is patient. The repop frames are not made of as good of materials as the originals. As for paint; a airbrush works great for touchups. It works great for blending new to old paint. You may get lucky and find a color ready matched, but most of the time you or your paint guy will have to do a match.
   In the picture; it looks like the joint needs to be repaired. The rack in the paint must have started because there was movement in the joint.
  Hope this helps.


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## bike (Nov 21, 2013)

*In general*

If a joint has been brazed it cannot be welded well because the residue will contaminate the weld- welded joints can be brazed.


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## fire_strom (Nov 26, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback. I think the joint was welded originally and I can definitely find a good welder much easier than a brazer. So I'll plan on that. 

I am not sure what I'll end up doing for repaint. I guess it will depend on how much the repair effects it. The paint is pretty thin on the whole cream section and the rest of the bike though decent is pretty scratched. 

I have to say that when I look at the details of the frame it fits with the history. That being the efforts of a dying company groping to rekindle consumer interest by launching a repop. 

It is fine for my needs though so I hope I can make it usable. 

Scott


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Nov 26, 2013)

A silver soldered joint is much cleaner looking than a welded joint.


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## SirMike1983 (Nov 26, 2013)

I would clear the area of paint, braze it, file smooth, then airbrush it with matching paint, level, polish and blend. I usually take this sort of work to a local guy who builds frames for brazing.


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## Iverider (Nov 26, 2013)

Can you build silver up to a fillet? I know you can use Brass and then file it and sand it all back down purdy-like.

I thought Silver was a better capillary brazing medium for lugs and things of that nature. Don't know enough about it yet, but I have the Paterek Manual and DVD set. Might be building some Arch Truss 29er Mountain bikes soon!


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## GiovanniLiCalsi (Nov 26, 2013)

What is the difference between brazing and soldering?
Brazing - The AWS defines brazing as a group of joining processes that produce coalescence of materials by heating them to the brazing temperature and by using a filler metal (solder) having a liquidus above 840°F (450°C), and below the solidus of the base metals.


Soldering - Soldering has the same definition as brazing except for the fact that the filler metal used has a liquidus below 840°F (450°C) and below the solidus of the base metals. 

You just need to choose the correct silver solder.


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## Mybluevw (Nov 26, 2013)

If it were me I would ride it and keep an eye on the crack to see if it worsens.
As long as you don't get too extreme and avoid curb hopping...carrying large objects on your handlebars etc.

Another thing that would interesting to see is how the joint looks inside the headtube. How far does the downtube project into the headtube and how much would the top tube have to deflect in order for the downtube to pop out.


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## pedaling pete (Nov 26, 2013)

*Mig or Tig*

Braze or silver braze is a torch application and frame would be heated cherry causing its own problems.Silver app would be 45% alloy $25 oz. Migwith 023 steel wire Best would tig with silicon bronze .030


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Nov 26, 2013)

pedaling pete said:


> Braze or silver braze is a torch application and frame would be heated cherry causing its own problems.Silver app would be 45% alloy $25 oz. Migwith 023 steel wire Best would tig with silicon bronze .030




Couldn't you wirefeed it?


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Nov 26, 2013)

pedaling pete said:


> Braze or silver braze is a torch application and frame would be heated cherry causing its own problems.Silver app would be 45% alloy $25 oz. Migwith 023 steel wire Best would tig with silicon bronze .030




Couldn't you tig it?


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## fire_strom (Dec 2, 2013)

Hi All:
Thanks again for replying. I am learning here.

I just started stripping the paint and all the joints appear brazed with brass, at least they are goldish in color. That means pretty much no weld? I doubt i can find a brazer to do it and the cost is probably prohibitive. 

Is the weld over braze a for sure no go?

Scott


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## bricycle (Dec 2, 2013)

fire_strom said:


> Hi All:
> Thanks again for replying. I am learning here.
> 
> I just started stripping the paint and all the joints appear brazed with brass, at least they are goldish in color. That means pretty much no weld? I doubt i can find a brazer to do it and the cost is probably prohibitive.
> ...




old radiator repair shop might braze it....


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## Andrew Gorman (Dec 2, 2013)

Anyone who does torch welding should be able to braze it together, even a plumber.  It's not a lost art at all. I'd get it fixed,  Mybluevw must have very good dental insurance....


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## DWmonarksuperdeluxe (Dec 2, 2013)

Braze it and put wet rags on the area next to where it is being brazed. As for the paint a local paint shop could probably custom mix that ivory color.


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## fire_strom (Dec 5, 2013)

I found a guy at work who should is going to look at it. He has a ton of experience with the torch. Great idea on the wet rags, I will mention that.
Thanks again for everybody's ideas. I will post up when something happens.
Scott


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## fire_strom (Dec 6, 2013)

Game on.


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## fire_strom (Dec 6, 2013)

I don't know much about this but it think I've got some filing to do. I think the steel got hot. He's confident it is solid. 

Any of you out there with experience see anything I should know about? I expected it to look more like the other joints.  



Thanks
G


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## greenephantom (Dec 6, 2013)

Well, it sure looks solid. It would have been possible to use less brass and have a joint that looked more like the other joints, but at least it's together again. I've done a fair amount of brazing, and the technique that would have yielded similar joint would be to use less brass and use the flame to move the molten brass around the curve of the joint. Anyway.  You can certainly work it down with files and strips of emery cloth.
Cheers, Geoff


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## oquinn (Dec 7, 2013)

*I think I would have tried to electro braze it with a tig torch..*

But you don't see anyone doing it that much


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## old hotrod (Dec 7, 2013)

It didn't look like the factory joint because the method was production and done a completely different way...your finish work will make it like new again...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPLRF5F5SZY&feature=player_embedded


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## scrubbinrims (Dec 7, 2013)

Looks like it had nice paint and the seam at the joint didn't detract as much as it would somewhere else.
I might be in the minority, but I would have just left it alone and used another vintage bicycle(s) as a rider.
Welding is a last resort for me like the ladies wingbar I have when it had 3 independent complete tube severs.
Chris


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## fire_strom (Dec 7, 2013)

Thanks for the input. I started cleaning it up today and I think I can make it look nice. The chucks of flux seem harder than the brass. I will try to bring it down to a nice filet looking mass. If I can get it nice I might polish the front and clear coat it. Leave the green and pinstripe or tape the intersection.
We'll see.

Thanks again-
Scott


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## fire_strom (Dec 7, 2013)

A little filing, dremeling, sanding and it is starting to look much better.


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## geech34 (Dec 8, 2013)

*Filet*

Try a small rotary file in a drill motor.


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## fire_strom (Dec 8, 2013)

That would be good. I'll probably pick something up today.
G


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## scrubbinrims (Dec 9, 2013)

fire_strom said:


> A little filing, dremeling, sanding and it is starting to look much better.




So is there a certification process or some sort of exam to become a welder?
Pass the torch.
Chris


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## rhenning (Dec 9, 2013)

There are certifications for being a welder.  For example if you want to have something welded on an aircraft you have to have it done by a Government Certified welder.  For the welder it is an involved process of schooling and testing to get the certificate but the monetary rewards are well worth having.  Roger


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## Nickinator (Dec 9, 2013)

NASCAR also certifies their welders, we are lucky to have one in our neighborhood (the only one in MN) - he's done a fantastic job on all the frame brazing and tig welding we've throw at him....better than some factory jobs 

Darcie


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## bricycle (Dec 9, 2013)

Nickinator said:


> NASCAR also certifies their welders, we are lucky to have one in our neighborhood (the only one in MN) - he's done a fantastic job on all the frame brazing and tig welding we've throw at him....better than some factory jobs
> 
> Darcie




He'd probably do an even better job if you'd stop "throwing" stuff at him.......lol.


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## fire_strom (Dec 9, 2013)

Playing with stripes. It's flat black. All I had was a touch up pen. Will add some brass stripes on either end of each of these and cover the remaining flat with gloss. Then the whole front end gets rattle can clear to seal out rust. Unless I think of something else I want to try. Any ideas?



y


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## fire_strom (Dec 13, 2013)

And done... As much as any of my projects can be done anyway. 
Thanks for everybody's help-
G


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