# For Sale:  1951 Schwinn Cruiser (Restored) with Springer Fork



## B-Rad (Nov 1, 2011)

Check out this classic 1951 Schwinn for sale.


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## panther boy (Nov 1, 2011)

*cruiser*

I love some people's definition of "Original"  It may have an original frame, fork, tank, and gooseneck. The rest is mix-n-match, and he forgot the truss rods.


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## ohdeebee (Nov 1, 2011)

*Restored?*

I don't think I could even categorize this as restored. Did Schwinn ever make a bike with Wald fenders, powdercoat, missing truss rods and a gold chain? Not to mention the wrong seat, wrong grips, missing chain guard, wrong pedals and wrong light. I don't mean to tear into a guy for building a bike, but I think this would be a custom built Schwinn, not "restored" or "original".


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## Freqman1 (Nov 1, 2011)

This post should have been put in the Ebay/CL part of the forum. BTW I agree with the previous comments regarding this bike-all wrong. v/r Shawn


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## Pantherboy (Nov 1, 2011)

*nice bike*

it looks like a nice bike. Maybe its restored to his definition of a restored bike?..I am looking for a bike kinda like that one or a panther..I will see were the price goes..as long as it has schwinn parts why would it not be a restored bike. I see people restore cars all the time, and paint them a different color than the car factory and they listed as restored..old parts taken off and new ones to replaced the non-usable ones..dont they do that with bikes.?


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## panther boy (Nov 2, 2011)

*Attacks*

THERE'S SUCH A THING AS MISREPRESENTATION. It's rampant in the Classic Bicycle business. If you choose to say a bike or a car is "original" in your ad to sell it, it better be "original" My reply to you was via PM to avoid embarrasing you in the forum, and i offered to help you identify a "Panther" if you wish. I also pointed out to you the obvious faults with your "Panther" in that it had a lot of parts that precluded it from having been a "Panther", and was missing "Panther " parts. If you take such constructive criticism personally, you need to grow up. 
Your bike is your bike, and in a free country you have the right to do anything you wish with it, but when you offer it to the unsuspecting public as 'Panther". that implies that it began life as such, and from what I can tell, you bike, which you represent as a "50 Panther" began life as something else. In any case, now that you brought it up, I'll be happy to make public the complete thread of my communication with you. 
I have no intention to continue this dispute with you. I joined this group because most folks here are nice people who are honest and ready to help. 
It appears that you are neither.


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## zcurves (Nov 2, 2011)

Pantherboy said:


> I see people restore cars all the time, and paint them a different color than the car factory and they listed as restored..old parts taken off and new ones to replaced the non-usable ones..dont they do that with bikes.?




I agree with you, but I believe what has the purists here all excited is the confusion between "Restored" and "Concours".  In my experience with other vehicles, "Restored" would be just as you described in your earlier post, whereas "Custom" would be the mix and match to ones own taste (e.g. low rider, chopper).  "Concours" is where every component and the application thereof is period correct to the vehicle or item.  The term "All Original" would infer that all of the components presently on said vehicle or item where the exact ones which the manufacturer installed.


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## panther boy (Nov 2, 2011)

*restore*

What boils me is the MISREPRESENTATION that goes on. Restore means to bring it to it's original condition. To modify or customize is entirely different, and perfectly ok, as long as the seller gives a true representation of what he's selling. To do otherwise is wrong, illegal, and could end up with someone in court. 
All I can say is  BUYER BEWARE, and do your homework before you pony up hundreds of dollars only to find out later that you bought a pile of mismatched parts.

AND as far as Timmy here goes, he represents on CL that Schwinn started selling bikes to be badged by other companies, before they started the "Schwinn" name. HE then claims he was trying to educate the public. I'd trust him as far as i can throw my pet water buffalo..


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## RMS37 (Nov 2, 2011)

Pantherboy said:


> Maybe its restored to his definition of a restored bike?..




I believe the definition of the word "restore" it to return something to an exact replica of its original condition. Taking a hard line, this means going even beyond sticking with the original color the factory painted it to the level of applying paint of the exact same chemical formula over primer that is of the exact same chemical composition as the factory used.  In that sense restoration is essentially an ideal that we can strive for but that realistically cannot be achieved. I think that restoration has become a hollow word in general today because people do restore objects to their personal definition of restored. The eBay ad is not outstanding against that backdrop and it looks like the seller has done a fair job of refurbishing much of the original bike and using modern parts to build a custom cruiser. The nature of communication is that you will often find yourself held to others contextual and  semantic interpretation of your words so choosing them carefully has payback.


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## twjensen (Nov 2, 2011)

panther boy said:


> What boils me is the MISREPRESENTATION that goes on. Restore means to bring it to it's original condition. To modify or customize is entirely different, and perfectly ok, as long as the seller gives a true representation of what he's selling. To do otherwise is wrong, illegal, and could end up with someone in court.
> All I can say is  BUYER BEWARE, and do your homework before you pony up hundreds of dollars only to find out later that you bought a pile of mismatched parts.
> 
> AND as far as Timmy here goes, he represents on CL that Schwinn started selling bikes to be badged by other companies, before they started the "Schwinn" name. HE then claims he was trying to educate the public. I'd trust him as far as i can throw my pet water buffalo..



Hey Tommy,
Is your water buffalo original condition, or restored?..
have a good day.


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## Pantherboy (Nov 2, 2011)

*whats the difference*



panther boy said:


> What boils me is the MISREPRESENTATION that goes on. Restore means to bring it to it's original condition. To modify or customize is entirely different, and perfectly ok, as long as the seller gives a true representation of what he's selling. To do otherwise is wrong, illegal, and could end up with someone in court.
> All I can say is  BUYER BEWARE, and do your homework before you pony up hundreds of dollars only to find out later that you bought a pile of mismatched parts.
> 
> AND as far as Timmy here goes, he represents on CL that Schwinn started selling bikes to be badged by other companies, before they started the "Schwinn" name. HE then claims he was trying to educate the public. I'd trust him as far as i can throw my pet water buffalo..




I may be new to the bike circle..but lets say you have a mustang..ok..over the years you have to replace a fender, back bumper, hood..and you go to sell it years down the road..what are you saying..its not a mustang?. Of course it is..As far as I can tell, after reading over most of these posts, for 1 reason or another parts are replaced..I can see from Schwinn factory booklets that options were available, on different models..so many Panthers or phantoms could and did have different options..
I like the photo that you sent me of your bike..its a  great story, that you saved money from your paper route to buy it..( thats what I am doing now.).But I have seen other panthers just as nice that dont have same options that yours has from the factory and depending what was ordered doesnt make yours any better than joe schomes..right?..its still just a panther, made my schwinn...From the books at the libarary at school. I dont see any bikes listed for sale on this site that say they are 100 % original..
.


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## panther boy (Nov 2, 2011)

*panther*

You still don't get it. As far as the restoration, parts replacement process goes, replacing parts is common and done often. But when you sell a bike and represent that it's something it isn't, then you have a problem. Kinda like buying a ford Falcon, putting a little horse emblem on the side and trying to sell it as a "Mustang". Then of course, there's the Fact of Tim's trying to rewrite the history of Schwinn to justify the headbadge on his other bike on CL, which he didn't have to do,   which points to his character, or lack thereof. In any case, I'm done with this thread.


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## vincev (Nov 3, 2011)

Not to add fuel to the fire but if you look at Stuff on ebay and craigslist section of the Cabeyou might read the post about the Hopalong cassidy bike.This is what some are refering to.always beware of high price models and ask for help if necessary.


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## snickle (Nov 3, 2011)

Well, while you guys were arguing over Boxers vs Breifs, someone bought that bike for $700! Plus shipping = $880! He is gonna be one pissed off mofo when he finds out he overpaid. The gold chain and pedals with reflectors are what killed it for me, AND he has to buy a chain guard. With that, he could have bought Tim's Panther and still had change! 

edit : nevermind, it looks like he just relisted it.


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## vincev (Nov 4, 2011)

LOL.The buyer should have been a forum member and he would have known what the lowdown was on the bike.Maybe he just liked it.lol


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## B-Rad (Nov 12, 2011)

*Sold*

Hey Guys,

This Lil' Knee Scuffer agrees with the semantic debate, and I certainly *wasn't intentionally trying to deceive potential buyers*.  That's why there's photographs, so folks can see for themselves, and then make their own decision to buy.

After reviewing the text in my ad, I agree that I should be more careful in my choice of words.  Next time, I'll use the word "custom" rather than "restored" or "original".  The only original parts were called out in the details (frame, fork, bars, stem), and I explicitly listed the parts that are new, which would indicate "not original".  So, my brad.

The bottom line is that the bike sold within a day at my Buy Now price, no questions asked.  Evidently, the buyer liked it enough and it held that value.

My apologies for raising a stink on the Forum, and thanks everyone for straightening me out for next time.  Lesson learned.


Cheers,
B-Rad


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## old hotrod (Nov 12, 2011)

The scary part now is when sellers absolutely misrepresent a bike, (intentional or not), the buyer has significant leverage with E$AY and Paypal and there is a good chance that he/she will get money back...and the seller will be out shipping (expensive on bikes) and maybe much more . So in this case, seller be forewarned. Choose your words carefully, use quality photos and do your research because E$AY doesn't recognize "as is,"no returns" or other blanket defense terms...


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