# Huffman aficionados chime in please... Need help with ID



## gtdohn (Feb 2, 2013)

Hello, I recently posted my questions and photos in a Huffman related thread, but my questions are more generic, so I thought they would get more attention by themselves. 
I bought this fine old Huffman years ago from the original owner. He has since passed away, so I can't ask him about it. I believe it is a 1939, but I want confirmation if possible. It has a non-horn long tank and the only photos I have ever found of  1939, show a tank with gills at the front edge and the gills on mine are "near" the front but not "at" the front. The other thing that one of the members mentioned is the fact that it does not have a welded on kickstand. It has a drop stand. The front loading fender light seems all original, as does the seat and everything else, except the grips which I replaced. The tires are Lightning Darts and still hold air just fine. The drop center wheels are silver with a red pinstripe. It has what appears to be its original head badge that says National and it looks like it is riveted on? I am posting some of the photos I have and if you would please take a look and jump on in if you have any information for me.

Thanks much

MikeView attachment 82279View attachment 82280View attachment 82281View attachment 82282View attachment 82283View attachment 82284View attachment 82285View attachment 82286


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## cyclingday (Feb 2, 2013)

Super nice bike!
 National was one of Huffmans top of the line brands.  
 39 seems about right to me. I'm sure that one of the Huffy gurus will chime in soon and give you a full account of what you've got there.


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## ohdeebee (Feb 2, 2013)

Odd combination to have that tank and that guard together. Original paint? Nice looking bike either way


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 2, 2013)

something just doesn't jive with this one...


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## Freqman1 (Feb 2, 2013)

37fleetwood said:


> something just doesn't jive with this one...




I was thinking the same thing as you guys. That tank and guard I don't think go together and that badge looks like the much later National badge? The morrow hub may give some clue to date if original to bike. What is the serial # underneath crank hanger? V/r Shawn


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## scrubbinrims (Feb 2, 2013)

Looks original to me guys and I would peg it as a late 39.
Never seen a 5-gill tank with a Crow's beak either, but this is not a Firestone issue, but a National and does anyone have a '39 National catalogue reference (or 40) to dispute what Huffman put together here?
Really nice bike!
Chris


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## gtdohn (Feb 2, 2013)

Yes, original paint on this one. Nothing appears to have ever been messed with from day one. I guess I gave you guys a mystery to solve, didn't I.


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## gtdohn (Feb 2, 2013)

Serial number under the frame reads 46351 and I am not sure, but there might be a "C" under that. Or it could just be a dent?


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 2, 2013)

no great mystery here. it's very clearly a 1941-42 Huffman. it's a cheaper model indicated by the silver painted wheels lack of rack and tank without the horn. at the same time it has the higher paint scheme which you would expect as a National. the badge looks fine. the only thing which isn't "right" is the chain guard. the guard is a 1938-1939 guard. you might convince me if this were a 1940 bike but it's a '41 or later. so the guard makes me think it was added later. Huffman used that same color for years, it is entirely possible that the guard from the bike was damaged and this one was a match and someone added it. Huffman was too small of a company when this bike was made that stuff just slipped out.
another question I have, is that cream paint on the headset nut? if so it doesn't bode well for it being original paint. is it just a trick of the photo?


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## gtdohn (Feb 2, 2013)

The Paint on the headset nut is just a reflection. The one thing that gets me is, wouldn't it have a welded on kickstand if it were 41 -42?


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 2, 2013)

another couple questions. is there no fender trim? I can't see any. I would expect darts of some sort. also it should have a side stand, the drop stands were long gone when this one was made.


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 2, 2013)

gtdohn said:


> The Paint on the headset nut is just a reflection. The one thing that gets me is, wouldn't it have a welded on kickstand if it were 41 -42?




the welded kickstand is 1940 only.


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## gtdohn (Feb 2, 2013)

On the fenders, I can only faintly make out some white pin-striping here and there. No obvious evidence of darts or pattern. No side stand either, and nothing welded on to accommodate one. One other thing, the pedals are made by a company named " CHAIR " if that helps at all.View attachment 82295View attachment 82296
Maybe the serial number will be found in someones catalog to help clear it up?

Thanks


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 2, 2013)

gtdohn said:


> On the fenders, I can only faintly make out some white pin-striping here and there. No obvious evidence of darts or pattern. No side stand either, and nothing welded on to accommodate one. One other thing, the pedals are made by a company named " CHAIR " if that helps at all.View attachment 82295View attachment 82296
> Maybe the serial number will be found in someones catalog to help clear it up?
> 
> Thanks




to me there's only one thing to be cleared up, and it may never be cleared up, and that's when the crow's beak guard was added.
the rest is solved, it's a very typical 1941/42 Huffman bike.
it should have a bolt on kick stand, the welded as mentioned was used in 1940 exclusively. the pedals have been replaced at sometime. these commonly had either a Torrington 8 or persons pedal. I suppose Wald pedals would also be acceptable.
I went through the photos I have and have found a bike similarly equipped to yours.


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## gtdohn (Feb 2, 2013)

Scott, you nailed it. That is definitely my bike. The color scheme and all. I can't thank you enough. I truly feel that you solved the mystery. I am a bit disappointed that is it not what I thought it might be, but it is still a nice old bike and can be made to be correct fairly easily. Would you happen to have a correct chain guard for it that you would part with? I know it might sound silly to some people, but originality and correctness are very important to me. Too bad it's not worth anything, I have a few projects that need funding and was hoping to maybe get some of it from this bike. Oh well, It does ride nicely!

Thanks again to everyone that jumped in.

Mike


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## Oldnut (Feb 2, 2013)

*Huffman*

Pm me I'm interested in the bike thanks,Ron


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## OldRider (Feb 2, 2013)

Its still worth a nice chunk of change. Just because its not exactly what you thought it was does not make it worthless, its beautiful


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 2, 2013)

I think everyone is going to be interested in the guard. the bike is a pretty nice looking bike as it sits, I wouldn't necessarily change it. the guard may have been changed years ago.
as it sits I would ask $1000 or so.


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## bike (Feb 2, 2013)

*entirely possible*

it was early wartime production and they used the guard that was on the shelf- I have seen alum fenders painted cause (I guess) that was what they needed that day and no steel ones were handy...


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 2, 2013)

bike said:


> it was early wartime production and they used the guard that was on the shelf- I have seen alum fenders painted cause (I guess) that was what they needed that day and no steel ones were handy...




perhaps, but Huffman was one of the two allowed to continue production during the war and may not have suffered the shortages the others faced.
I'm not going to say it's impossible that the bike came with that guard, it's just very improbable. I know it seems like a '39 guard on a '41 bike seems doable, and I would be less skeptical if the bike were a '40 with a '39 guard, but on a '41 it's a really big stretch. Huffman was fairly small, there probably wasn't as much laying around as you might expect from one of the bigger companies.


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## dfa242 (Feb 2, 2013)

37fleetwood said:


> perhaps, but Huffman was one of the two allowed to continue production during the war and may not have suffered the shortages the others faced.
> I'm not going to say it's impossible that the bike came with that guard, it's just very improbable. I know it seems like a '39 guard on a '41 bike seems doable, and I would be less skeptical if the bike were a '40 with a '39 guard, but on a '41 it's a really big stretch. Huffman was fairly small, there probably wasn't as much laying around as you might expect from one of the bigger companies.




That's interesting - why was Huffman allowed to continue production during the war and who was the other manufacturer?


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## bike (Feb 2, 2013)

*Perhaps*



37fleetwood said:


> perhaps, but Huffman was one of the two allowed to continue production during the war and may not have suffered the shortages the others faced.
> I'm not going to say it's impossible that the bike came with that guard, it's just very improbable. I know it seems like a '39 guard on a '41 bike seems doable, and I would be less skeptical if the bike were a '40 with a '39 guard, but on a '41 it's a really big stretch. Huffman was fairly small, there probably wasn't as much laying around as you might expect from one of the bigger companies.




some close inspection/fotos of the down tube and chain stay where another guard may have been attached is in order? Patina seems a bit off- but tween monitor and eyes...hard to tell


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 2, 2013)

with gasoline rationing and other items being in short supply the government determined that bicycles were going to be a necessity so they picked two companies to continue production. both companies were used to produce civilian models and all of the war bikes. Huffman and Columbia were chosen. I'm sure politics played into the decision, but they picked one big and one small company. Columbia was the large and Huffman the smaller.


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## dfa242 (Feb 2, 2013)

You really do learn something new every day - thanks.


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## bike (Feb 2, 2013)

*Love to see*



37fleetwood said:


> with gasoline rationing and other items being in short supply the government determined that bicycles were going to be a necessity so they picked two companies to continue production. both companies were used to produce civilian models and all of the war bikes. Huffman and Columbia were chosen. I'm sure politics played into the decision, but they picked one big and one small company. Columbia was the large and Huffman the smaller.




documentation on this- new to me- never really studied wartime- just looked in mar 42 american bicyclist and Westfield said they were making Victory bikes...





Cool pic of shelby ad with guy smoking:


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## cyclingday (Feb 2, 2013)

Schwinn continued to produce Cycletrucks and a standard Defense model during the war years as well.


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## Boris (Feb 2, 2013)

*This from the Whizzerusa Motorbike Site*

"With World War II in full swing, Whizzer had to lobby the United States government for the right to continue production of their motorbike engines. Martin Goldman visited Washington and convinced the government that the Whizzer was a great way for defense workers to travel to and from work."


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## bike (Feb 2, 2013)

*THanks to microsoft*

My scanner has no vista driver so I use my camera- the mar 42 issue of American bicyclist is mostly about the war- lots of interesting articles and ads from most companies - have not yet found Huffman..

here is a Schwinn ad- they seem to neglect the Cycle tuck although that may not have been retail like a victory bike, but built for government contract.





Sooo maybe folks with other wartime issues can find some info?


the bike that started this thread, if it came equipped this way, is certainly an interesting wrinkle...


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## 37fleetwood (Feb 2, 2013)




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## 37fleetwood (Feb 6, 2013)

dfa242 said:


> That's interesting - why was Huffman allowed to continue production during the war and who was the other manufacturer?




I knew I had this somewhere. actually I sold this issue and Marty, who bought it, was kind enough to let me borrow it back so I could do what I should have done before I sold it, and that's scan the most important bits!

I zoomed and highlighted the important article. this is September 1942.


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## 2jakes (Feb 7, 2013)

*WW2 bikes*





(_(Still from "Color of War",)_
*A GI on an early "curved frame" Columbia. Year is 1944*




_Westfield Columbia MG 138969 (late 1943)_

" These bikes were manufactured by both West Columbia & Huffman
with only minor differences in parts. Huffman fenders were rounded
as opposed to gothic ones on the Columbia, chain guards varied &
Huffman front sprockets had a unique whirlwind design. All parts were
inter-changable. Early rubber pedal blocks were replaced with wooden
ones later in the war. Early frames had a curved front tube but these
were replaced with straight tubes on later models."
_(from Bicycles pages ) www.theliberator.be_

Found it today & thought to share it with you all ... 


I just noticed the "sweetheart" sprocket on the above image....
was this original to these models ? Not sure but the '44 photo
looks like similar sprocket...but I'll leave it to those that know
more.
Also on this site is a "plethora" of vintage photos of GIs & their
bikes & the guy who thought he'd found one but wasn't & his
quest for an original Army bicycle ! Enjoy !


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