# 1938 Elgin Special Ladies Bicycle???



## holly roberts (Aug 25, 2016)

Hi,

I have finally decided to restore this vintage bicycle. I have been trying to find info about it and from what i can see its a 1938 Elgin Special which was not featured in the Sears catalog (not sure how people knew about it then) Am I at least correct in that fact? This bike belonged to my aunt Joan and it was given to her for her High School graduation. It has been sitting out in the yard ( as you can see) and most if not all of the paint is gone along with several of its original parts. I would like to restore to "new" condition to ride so looking for any help from the experts out there that might have access to original or replica parts. I was able to find what i believe to be the correct handlebar grips on Ebay (basically following the look from pictures) but that's it so far. Can anyone help me with front fender light, rear rack, saddle and kickstand? I would be willing to purchase replica or parts bike if one is out there. I plan to spend this winter totally disassembling and fully cleaning, painting and reassembling for riding next spring 2017.


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## Awhipple (Aug 25, 2016)

I would just clean it up and service it and ride it. Some of that paint might come out with a good cleaning.


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## holly roberts (Aug 25, 2016)

Awhipple said:


> I would just clean it up and service it and ride it. Some of that paint might come out with a good cleaning.



Thank you for the reply... any info on the missing parts or year?


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## rustjunkie (Aug 25, 2016)

Neat bike Holly, and welcome to The Cabe! 
Your bike was made for Sears by Westfield, thanks to @MrColumbia you can find the year the frame was made by looking up the serial #, it's on the frame under the crank:
http://www.vintagecolumbiabikes.com/id79.html
It's gonna be really tough to substantially improve this bike. Painting a bicycle is not easy, introduce a second color and pinstripes and then it's even tougher. It'll be pretty expensive too, especially adding in headlight and saddle (this one looks pretty good actually).
You might consider practicing cleaning and overhaul on this bike. You'll gain some experience and end up with a bike that wears her history proudly.
In the meantime keep your eyes out for a similar bike that's in better condition if you want something that's has less "character".


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## Awhipple (Aug 25, 2016)

I don't know much about these bikes so I couldn't tell you what's missing or not.  As far as age my best guess would be 40's. Somebody here will chim in with a closer age. I like rust and patina.


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## Freqman1 (Aug 25, 2016)

I think the reason the others are trying to dissuade you is because to truly restore this bike you are in for an easy $2k. By the time you get chrome done, cad plating, seat restored, rack, light, drop/kick stand (depends on year), pedals restored, grips, tires, spokes, etc... and a quality, correct, paint job (don't let the local body shop do this) that's what you are looking at. The bike will be worth about $500 - 600 after you do all this. If money is no object and the sentimental attachment is strong then go for it. If you don't have the money, time, or skills necessary then a careful cleaning (tips can be found on this site) and a good service to put it back on the road are better that an attempt to "make it pretty" which will destroy any collectible value. V/r Shawn


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## Euphman06 (Aug 26, 2016)

I might have a replacement tank in better shape if you're interested...


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## mickeyc (Aug 26, 2016)

I have a very similar bike and I just serviced all the bearings, put on a better seat and tires and it's one of my best riding bikes.  As others have said, restorations are VERY expensive.

Mike


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## Nickinator (Aug 26, 2016)

Yours looks like a 40/41 to me. I restored this 1940 Elgin Sport model a few years ago, did the paint and body myself, but fenders weren't as bad as yours. My seat was also good. My wheels/hubs had already been restored by PO. I think I spent about $1200 on it, with a few NOS parts, so 2k - 2,500 a good estimate depending on the deals you can get on parts/labor.

Sounds like that one has some sentimental value tho', not too many people have a prewar bike that belonged to a family member. For sure don't let it sit outside anymore.  Good luck.

Darcie


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## holly roberts (Aug 26, 2016)

WOW, so much awesome advise and feedback, this is my first step into forums and I am very impressed. Thanks everyone who replied. The bike does have sentimental value but because its not really rare enough to be worth anything once restored, I wanted to take a stab at trying it myself. If i don't get it in good working/riding condition, with new seat and tires, grips It will still continue to sit with Christmas lights by the tree in my yard. I am going to take your advise and see if I can at least clean it up, remove as much rust as possible, replace grips, tires, seat and give it a ride. I will post pictures as soon as I have completed that task. Don't think i will need a new tank but any other advise on missing parts is greatly appreciated. As well as link to "cleaning" the bike. Thanks EVERYONE!


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## holly roberts (Aug 26, 2016)

Freqman1 said:


> I think the reason the others are trying to dissuade you is because to truly restore this bike you are in for an easy $2k. By the time you get chrome done, cad plating, seat restored, rack, light, drop/kick stand (depends on year), pedals restored, grips, tires, spokes, etc... and a quality, correct, paint job (don't let the local body shop do this) that's what you are looking at. The bike will be worth about $500 - 600 after you do all this. If money is no object and the sentimental attachment is strong then go for it. If you don't have the money, time, or skills necessary then a careful cleaning (tips can be found on this site) and a good service to put it back on the road are better that an attempt to "make it pretty" which will destroy any collectible value. V/r Shawn



Can you give me the link to the "clean up site" it doesn't seem to be showing here?


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## Freqman1 (Aug 26, 2016)

There isn't a "clean up site" but you can search in the restoration section for tips on various things such as removing rust, cleaning the paint and chrome, etc... V/r Shawn


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## holly roberts (Aug 26, 2016)

Nickinator said:


> Yours looks like a 40/41 to me. I restored this 1940 Elgin Sport model a few years ago, did the paint and body myself, but fenders weren't as bad as yours. My seat was also good. My wheels/hubs had already been restored by PO. I think I spent about $1200 on it, with a few NOS parts, so 2k - 2,500 a good estimate depending on the deals you can get on parts/labor.
> 
> Sounds like that one has some sentimental value tho', not too many people have a prewar bike that belonged to a family member. For sure don't let it sit outside anymore.  Good luck.
> 
> ...



Can you help me with some of the items you have replaced on this Elgin, like seat, light, tires? Were they replica new? Did they all come from a single location? Your restoration looks like something I could handle with cleaning up my bike and replacing some missing parts. thanks


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## holly roberts (Aug 26, 2016)

Freqman1 said:


> There isn't a "clean up site" but you can search in the restoration section for tips on various things such as removing rust, cleaning the paint and chrome, etc... V/r Shawn



got IT!! thank you


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## Nickinator (Aug 26, 2016)

holly roberts said:


> Can you help me with some of the items you have replaced on this Elgin, like seat, light, tires? Were they replica new? Did they all come from a single location? Your restoration looks like something I could handle with cleaning up my bike and replacing some missing parts. thanks




Finding missing/better parts is part of the challenge (and fun? lol). Before you replace, see if the old part can be repaired/rechromed, as it may be easier, just as cheap, and then you've kept an original part.

Watch the For Sale ads here, post a Wanted ad (and bump it frequently), message members off their posts and ask for referrals. Check ebay often and save your searches. Call Memory Lane Classics in Ohio 419-832-3040 and see if they have anything (keep checking back as they're always getting more stuff in.)

Do your research- on that model and similar models (and Elgins in general)- so you know what to look for, and you know a decent price. Lots of threads here on Elgins, use the search feature. It will take some time so be patient, it's part of the process and pride of owning a great prewar bike- may not be "rare" to us here, but you definitely don't see them everyday, and I think it's definitely worth preserving, if not restoring. Lastly.... find an old 60's Schwinn for the tree haha.

Darcie


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## holly roberts (Aug 26, 2016)

Nickinator said:


> Finding missing/better parts is part of the challenge (and fun? lol). Before you replace, see if the old part can be repaired/rechromed, as it may be easier, just as cheap, and then you've kept an original part.
> 
> Watch the For Sale ads here, post a Wanted ad (and bump it frequently), message members off their posts and ask for referrals. Check ebay often and save your searches. Call Memory Lane Classics in Ohio 419-832-3040 and see if they have anything (keep checking back as they're always getting more stuff in.)
> 
> ...




thanks Darcie,

I will definitely follow your wonderful advise. Just getting used to "forums" so once I get the hang of it I know I will find cool stuff to buy.  Will post a pic of my restoration for sure!!


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## holly roberts (Aug 26, 2016)

holly roberts said:


> thanks Darcie,
> 
> I will definitely follow your wonderful advise. Just getting used to "forums" so once I get the hang of it I know I will find cool stuff to buy.  Will post a pic of my restoration for sure!!




Oh and love the idea of a "new" bike for the tree...maybe an old BMW motorcycle this time.


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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 26, 2016)

Cha cha likes it!!


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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 26, 2016)

My girlfriend Daisy has the older version of your bike.


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## rustjunkie (Aug 26, 2016)

Joe Buffardi said:


> View attachment 353782 My girlfriend Daisy has the older version of your bike.




Maybe! would be cool to compare the serial #'s.
Just noticed something interesting about the fork on Holly's bike


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## Nickinator (Aug 26, 2016)

According to the catalogs, for the girl's bikes, the over the fork fenders show up in '39, the half moon bars don't show up till '40 for the more deluxe bikes (Miss America) and 1941 for the rest of the girl's line. By '41 the bell spring seats are being used, so based on that the bike looks most likely to be a '40.
Darcie


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## rustjunkie (Aug 26, 2016)

look closely at the fork


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## Nickinator (Aug 26, 2016)

What's your thoughts then?


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## rustjunkie (Aug 26, 2016)

Fork changed?


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## Euphman06 (Aug 26, 2016)

Could be? Seems like the hole in the fender was enlarged at one point. lack of screw could mean the fork isn't drilled for the screw.


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## rustjunkie (Aug 26, 2016)

Fork is tubular as well, anyone seen a tubular fork with OTF fenders?


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## Euphman06 (Aug 26, 2016)

Don't think so...


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## XBPete (Aug 26, 2016)

Are they growing out of the ground? Found this one today


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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 26, 2016)

The tubular design and fork crown design would not accommodate the over the fender shape.


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## rustjunkie (Aug 26, 2016)

Joe Buffardi said:


> The tubular design and fork crown design would not accommodate the over the fender shape.




'zactly, zoom in on the pics


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## Nickinator (Aug 26, 2016)

rustjunkie said:


> Fork changed?



Good eye, the fender is pinched up to accommodate it, it is also a bit more aqua in color. Fun to find that fork....
Darcie


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## cyclingday (Aug 26, 2016)

An old BMW motorcycle!
Say it ain't so!


holly roberts said:


> Oh and love the idea of a "new" bike for the tree...maybe an old BMW motorcycle this time.


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## Adamtinkerer (Aug 27, 2016)

I have a same color bike w/the junior Collegiate badge. The 'Elgin' tank was a lucky ebay find!!


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## Nickinator (Aug 27, 2016)

rustjunkie said:


> Fork changed?




Nick said he says seen this style fork with those fenders before.....?


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## mrg (Aug 27, 2016)

Here is another similar Westfield version. somethings not right with that fork, isn't mostly Murry built that have a OTF fender?


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## rustjunkie (Aug 27, 2016)

mrg said:


> Here is another similar Westfield version. somethings not right with that fork, isn't mostly Murry built that have a OTF fender?




Many Westfield built bikes had the OTF fenders, and the ones I've had used a fork that was slightly different from the Murray.


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## GTs58 (Aug 27, 2016)

rustjunkie said:


> look closely at the fork




I took a close look and it appears that the fender has had a DIHS (Do It Her Self) modification. The hole for the steer tube was obviously cut out by someone, looks jacked up, and then the fender was formed over the fork.


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## holly roberts (Aug 29, 2016)

Spent about 5 hours last night disassembling the old bike. I am having trouble getting the rear rim off. The little screws that hold the back axle in place so chain won't fall off are so rusty they just wont turn, anyone have any idea on how to loosen them? Attached a picture here of long screw Last I need some help getting the front fork off, I bought a book online but its not really giving me details on how to remove the fork. Anyone have good advise on how to remove the fork so I can get the front fender off and clean it up? Here are some pics of my first day. Appreciate any help you call can give me.


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## Freqman1 (Aug 29, 2016)

To get the fork off you first have to remove the handlebar stem (goose neck). Once you do that remove the large crown nut on top and underneath that is the bearing cone. Once these are off the fork will come off. Those axle adjusters don't look too bad. Hit 'em with some PB Blaster or something similar and let them soak a day. The crank has a reverse threaded nut on it (just like your left side pedal is reverse threaded). Same procedure as fork removal on crank. V/r Shawn


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## tripple3 (Aug 29, 2016)

Great pics. Very "artsy"
Loosen the neck stem bolt and hit it down with a hammer.
The only time its ok to hit your bike with a hammer.
Keep reading. Have fun.


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## Nickinator (Aug 29, 2016)

The stem is the hardest part of disassembling an old bike thats been sitting outside. I hope it comes out ok for you- yeah you have to loosen the long nut a couple turns then hit the bolt down with a good smack to loosen it. May need some PB Blaster on that part too. Its one of those things that once you know how to do it you're good, but a bit hard to explain.  The adjuster screws may need some aggressive wire brushing and oil to remove any rust, so they come out, but sometimes they're not salvageable. We get a lot of parts bikes that have sat outside....Nick does those ones lol. 
Darcie





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## holly roberts (Aug 29, 2016)

tripple3 said:


> Great pics. Very "artsy"
> Loosen the neck stem bolt and hit it down with a hammer.
> The only time its ok to hit your bike with a hammer.
> Keep reading. Have fun.



My art studio is doing double duty as a "bike restoration" area ") thanks for all the help.


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## rustjunkie (Aug 29, 2016)

On the screws that hold the back axle: there's 2 nuts that are locked together, get in there with a little wrench and loosen the first one, then the one closest to the axle, then you'll probably be able to turn the long screw with a 1/4" socket.
If something doesn't want to give, try nudging it each way, tight and loose, that often helps free a nut or bolt.
A little tri-flow or penetrating oil on the threads over night or at least just before putting a wrench on something really helps.

A block of wood between the stem binder bolt and hammer might be a good idea too.


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## Freqman1 (Aug 29, 2016)

Usually on one that I know has been subjected to the elements I spray the crap out of the bike with PB Blaster. Liquid Wrench, or something similar and just let it sit for a week and then get after it. Also please remember that the crank nut and cone as well as the left pedal are reverse threaded so righty-loosy on these. V/r Shawn


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## rustjunkie (Aug 29, 2016)

@holly roberts :
Are you planning to take the spokes out of the wheels?


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## Nickinator (Aug 29, 2016)

rustjunkie said:


> @holly roberts :
> Are you planning to take the spokes out of the wheels?




Yeah, as rusty as they look, they may be unsafe to ride on. Better check them carefully, if they're loose may be tough to get them true or tightened, or they may be too rusted or brittle ~ don't chance it.
Darcie


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## mike j (Aug 30, 2016)

Bike Mike, owner of the Dudley Do Right flea market in Dudley, Mass. should be hosting  a bicycle swap meet there within the next month. He has re-popped drop center chrome rims (like yours) & spokes. Chances are that you may be able to pick up a lot of what you need from the venders that show up there. Good luck w/ it. Take your time & use plenty of penetrating oil. I think that you may be right on the year.


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## rickyd (Aug 30, 2016)

Picture of a stem that is probably similar to yours at the bottom they get rusted stuck inside fork. Soak with pb blaster, sometimes fork also has hole in underside to allow pb in from that direction. After soak install bars for a handle, place fork in something secure loosen bolt tap down then hopefully remove stem with a few twists on bars, cannot overemphasis soak. Find master link on chain and if there is enough slack press inward it comes off toward you. Wheel will then come off. You got lucky on seat post as they often are stuck. Nice old bike show us pics as it comes along. Rick ps scroll through "Project rides" section for examples of bikes brought back without full blown restoration costs.


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## holly roberts (Aug 31, 2016)

rustjunkie said:


> @holly roberts :
> Are you planning to take the spokes out of the wheels?



I wasnt planning on removing the spokes, but was going to clean them up really good and take to bike shop to ensure they are ok to ride on. If they say no then I will have to purchase new ones.


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## rustjunkie (Aug 31, 2016)

holly roberts said:


> I wasnt planning on removing the spokes, but was going to clean them up really good and take to bike shop to ensure they are ok to ride on. If they say no then I will have to purchase new ones.




From what I can see in the pics I've removed and reused worse. New spokes will stick out like a sore thumb: they'll likely be stainless and not double-butted like the orig. You'll probably be fine cleaning up the wheels w/o removing the spokes. Leave that as a very last resort and you'll be way ahead in time and money.


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