# Looking for help in identifying bike from 1935....



## bbell98138 (May 18, 2020)

When my dad died in 1993 I took ownership of a bicycle of his that he had kept his entire life.
He repainted it when he retired in 1987 but it’s in very rough shape and I’d like to return it to some semblance of its former glory.
I do know that he bought it when he was 10 years old (1935, probably with his own money).
They were country folks so I always assumed he ordered it from the Sears catalog, but that may not be correct. Additionally I always remembered it has being a garbage can grey, but my dad repainted it red and white in 87 and I think I’m seeing some bright red original paint.
I have access to old Sears catalogs and it kind of looks like a Sears/Elgin Oriole except the kickstand is different. I know the bike once had a crossbar on the handlebars that is now missing, but I don’t think it ever had a chain guard or other accessories like light or tank, etc.  Recently I saw a picture of a Shapleigh Rugby which actually looks as much or more similar to this bike than the Oriole does.   
I believe the serial number is 5D3099 (see picture), but unfortunately the badge is missing from the front.

I've been so impressed by reading through the forums on this site I was hopeful that someone could help me identify it.
Thank you!


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## SKPC (May 18, 2020)

35 Colson I think by serial number with wrong pedals, fenders and stand.Could have had 3 or 4 different badges so you can still find them.


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## bbell98138 (May 18, 2020)

Thank you for the lead, I'll try researching into Colson.  I'm certain however that the fenders are the originals and equally as certain that the pedals are not.
The kickstand I'm not sure about as he might have replaced that before my time.
Thanks again.


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## stezell (May 18, 2020)

It would've had a dropstand with a clip on the rear fender, It has ears on the rear dropouts so the dropstand wouldn't have had any.

Sean


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## The Carolina Rambler (May 18, 2020)

I would have to agree with SKPC, I think you have a Colson.  The front fork and the chainring are the tell tale signs.  Yours could have been a Flyer, a Rover, which are the most commen, or it could have been a number of other badges.  A lot of it has to do with the position of the badge mounting holes.  I think everything you have there is original to it except for your pedals, kik stand, and the paint of course.  You might also appear to have 2 different rims on you bike, both are period to the 1930s.  A lot of the Colsons they built at that time were of a paint scheme similar to that which your father gave it.  I have also seen red and black, and usually with 2 bands of color on the fenders.  Also often with golden pinstripes between the colors.  If you look at my profile image, I have a 1935 Colson Rover I restored, possibly the same model as yours but with a number of accessories installed.  Mine also has the New Departure Model D brake like yours has.  That might help give you some ideas with your bike's restoration.   The biggest thing to be sure of is to have fun and relive the memories!


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## bbell98138 (May 18, 2020)

Thank you!!!!!!


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## The Carolina Rambler (May 18, 2020)

bbell98138 said:


> Thank you!!!!!!



Another thing I'll mention.  Your bike could take a nice chrome accessory chaingaurd, if it has a "dogleg" type crank arm.  If it has the older style staight crank arms, a chaingaurd of any kind won't fit.  My has straight cranks, so I couldn't put a chain gaurd on mine.


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## The Carolina Rambler (May 18, 2020)

bbell98138 said:


> Thank you!!!!!!



Here is a link to the post I did on this bike.  Although the paint colors I chose may or may not have been ones used by the Colson Company, they're not too far from it, but the patterns of the paint used I think is accurate.  Colson used a good many different variations in paints on these earlier models, so you have a good deal of choices to decide on.









						1935 Colson Rover- Fully Restored Before & After | General Discussion About Old Bicycles
					

Hello everybody, this is something I have been wanting to complete, and show ya'll for a long time, and I have finally finished it.  This is my "new" 1935 Colson Rover, Balloon Tire Bicycle.  My favorite things and time period in history is perhaps the 1920s and 30s, and I really wanted a nice...




					thecabe.com
				




Another good thing to try is simply googling pictures of these early colsons, and you can see those owned by others, many of which do have original good paint!


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## tjkajecj (May 18, 2020)

Here's a picture of a couple of original paint Colsons of the same vintage.
The burgundy bike has gold pins as @The Carolina Rambler stated
These are 28" wheel models.
Lots of Colson information here on thecabe, good luck with your project.

Tim


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## The Carolina Rambler (May 18, 2020)

tjkajecj said:


> Here's a picture of a couple of original paint Colsons of the same vintage.
> The burgundy bike has gold pins as @The Carolina Rambler stated
> These are 28" wheel models.
> Lots of Colson information here on thecabe, good luck with your project.
> ...



These are excellent!


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## bbell98138 (May 18, 2020)

You guys are the best!!!
Thank you!


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## Rivnut (May 18, 2020)

I wonder if the wheels were originally 28" as well.  Might have been easier to switch to 26" wheels and tires than to find 28" tires.  Your bike shows a lot of space between the tire and fender when compared to the bikes posted.  A dropstand and clip shouldn't be too difficult to find.


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## bbell98138 (May 19, 2020)

Thanks for the comment, I think you may be right.
You guys are an astute bunch.  
Thank you.


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## bbell98138 (May 22, 2020)

Training wheels back again. Earlier in this thread it was suggested that my original wheels may have been replaced with 26" ones which is a very real possibility. I doubt my Dad would have built the wheels so I'm assuming the time period of the New Departure Model D hub will help me determine an approximate year of the rear wheel at least. And while I've seen a lot of posts on the subject my window seems to be a very large one  (between 1933-1950s).
It appears to be nickel plated, is 36 hole with a 10 tooth sprocket. Also has the lube fitting. 
Can anyone help me zero in a little closer on a date? 
Thank you


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## SKPC (May 22, 2020)

April, or "D" of 1935; "5" .. Looks like a lot of repaints to cut through if looking for original color if any left. Truss rods should be metal and not painted you could start there after tuning it up and getting it riding again..


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## bbell98138 (May 22, 2020)

Thank you!!!


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## bbell98138 (May 22, 2020)

SKPC said:


> April, or "D" of 1935; "5" .. Looks like a lot of repaints to cut through if looking for original color if any left. Truss rods should be metal and not painted you could start there after tuning it up and getting it riding again..



Thank you SKPC.
So you're thinking that is the original rear wheel?


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## Rivnut (May 22, 2020)

I think that SKPC is referring to the "D" and the "5" that are stamped into the bottom bracket.  I don't think the rear hub is dated.


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## Rivnut (May 22, 2020)

I found an internet article on Hub Dating and copied and pasted a couple of pictures.
The first is a picture of what looks like your brake arm.  It says "BRAKE" under the New Departure.  It's dates the brake arm from  "1938 to 1941" The R in the word brake is under the A in departure. I have a feeling that if yours is fully exposed, it looks like this one.




This next picture show the brake arm from a "1934 to 1938?"  You'll notice that the arm does not have the word BRAKE on it. It has Model D on it instead.





This 3rd picture shows a brake arm from the years 1941 - 1949.  It's called a "big arm".  It does not have the loop around the hole in the end and it it thicker where it connects to the hub.  In the picture that you posted, it's hard to tell what the entire arm looks like.  In this one, the B is between the A and R.





1950 - 1959 does not have the word BRAKE cast into it.


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## bbell98138 (May 22, 2020)

This is fantastic Rivnut, thank you so much!!!!
Exactly what I needed!
Thanks again.


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## Balloonoob (May 22, 2020)

See below for Colson serial number thread. Add yours to it if you'd like.https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/pre-1937-colson-serial-number-project.128901/page-2#post-944838 Here is the badge that I put on my 34. I was told it came off a 35 model though. My bike has mostly non-original parts ; some are period though. Now has an old model d hub laced to mo












dern 28"wheels. I like your ride. Very cool to have your dad's old bike.


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## Balloonoob (May 22, 2020)

Here's a good Colson thread. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/who-likes-colson-bikes.108213/page-10#post-1146761


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## bbell98138 (May 22, 2020)

I had to run out back to get another picture but although the "loop" isn't present on mine I think it does most closely resemble your picture #1.
Bottom line, I think it's close enough if not exact to what originally came on the bike, that I'll feel comfortable restoring it as opposed to replacing it. 
Thanks for your help!


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## Balloonoob (May 22, 2020)

These Colson badges are all from classifieds ads. Had to dig pretty far back but as you can see they do pop up from time to time Some might still be available. 1 is marked sold. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/colson-head-badge.164743/. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/pre-war-badges-whizzer-head-light.145220/#post-972035.       I like this rover badge too. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/5-head-badges-for-60-shipped.144939/


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## bbell98138 (May 22, 2020)

Thanks Balloonoob for your posts and the links.
Much appreciated and I love your ride!


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## SKPC (May 27, 2020)

Colson, in the mid-1933 year, joined the 26" clincher bandwagon, but continued to make the 28' wheeled cycles as well during this year.  I wonder when they stopped making the 28" frames?  @Phattiremike 's 1933 bike above is a 28-er and my 1933 bike is a 26-er,  and the serial numbers are very close.  When measuring the frame specs, we discovered that the chain stay length and fork length are longer on the 28" frames.   I have posted these measurements in the Colson serial number thread. 
        Other makers of motorbike straight-bar frames through the late 30's(38?) like Snyder and Elgin, were also making these frames that ran both
26 or 28-er wheels, but they used one frame for both wheel sizes and simply provided a fender spacer to use if you put 26" wheels on it.  Not Colson though, they made two different spec'd frame sizes specific to wheel size.   What do your chain-stay and fork lengths measure? (see Colson serial number thread for measurement comparison.)  This will tell you whether your frame is 26 or 28..


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## bbell98138 (May 27, 2020)

SKPC said:


> Colson, in the mid-1933 year, joined the 26" clincher bandwagon, but continued to make the 28' wheeled cycles as well during this year.  I wonder when they stopped making the 28" frames?  @Phattiremike 's 1933 bike above is a 28-er and my 1933 bike is a 26-er,  and the serial numbers are very close.  When measuring the frame specs, we discovered that the chain stay length and fork length are longer on the 28" frames.   I have posted these measurements in the Colson serial number thread.
> Other makers of motorbike straight-bar frames through the late 30's(38?) like Snyder and Elgin, were also making these frames that ran both
> 26 or 28-er wheels, but they used one frame for both wheel sizes and simply provided a fender spacer to use if you put 26" wheels on it.  Not Colson though, they made two different spec'd frame sizes specific to wheel size.   What do your chain-stay and fork lengths measure? (see Colson serial number thread for measurement comparison.)  This will tell you whether your frame is 26 or 28..



Thank you. I'll check out the thread and measure my fork length tomorrow.  Pardon my ignorance but how do I measure the chain-stay? Or is that discussed in the serial number thread?


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## SKPC (May 27, 2020)

Yes, there are two hand-drawn diagrams showing how and where to measure both...


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## fordmike65 (May 27, 2020)

SKPC said:


> Colson, in the mid-1933 year, joined the 26" clincher bandwagon, but continued to make the 28' wheeled cycles as well during this year.  I wonder when they stopped making the 28" frames?  @Phattiremike 's 1933 bike above is a 28-er and my 1933 bike is a 26-er,  and the serial numbers are very close.  When measuring the frame specs, we discovered that the chain stay length and fork length are longer on the 28" frames.   I have posted these measurements in the Colson serial number thread.
> Other makers of motorbike straight-bar frames through the late 30's(38?) like Snyder and Elgin, were also making these frames that ran both
> 26 or 28-er wheels, but they used one frame for both wheel sizes and simply provided a fender spacer to use if you put 26" wheels on it.  Not Colson though, they made two different spec'd frame sizes specific to wheel size.   What do your chain-stay and fork lengths measure? (see Colson serial number thread for measurement comparison.)  This will tell you whether your frame is 26 or 28..



I've seen the option for a 28" Colson frame at least into 1937.


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## bbell98138 (May 27, 2020)

SKPC said:


> Yes, there are two hand-drawn diagrams showing how and where to measure both...



Excellent,  thank you!


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## bbell98138 (May 28, 2020)

SKPC said:


> Colson, in the mid-1933 year, joined the 26" clincher bandwagon, but continued to make the 28' wheeled cycles as well during this year.  I wonder when they stopped making the 28" frames?  @Phattiremike 's 1933 bike above is a 28-er and my 1933 bike is a 26-er,  and the serial numbers are very close.  When measuring the frame specs, we discovered that the chain stay length and fork length are longer on the 28" frames.   I have posted these measurements in the Colson serial number thread.
> Other makers of motorbike straight-bar frames through the late 30's(38?) like Snyder and Elgin, were also making these frames that ran both
> 26 or 28-er wheels, but they used one frame for both wheel sizes and simply provided a fender spacer to use if you put 26" wheels on it.  Not Colson though, they made two different spec'd frame sizes specific to wheel size.   What do your chain-stay and fork lengths measure? (see Colson serial number thread for measurement comparison.)  This will tell you whether your frame is 26 or 28..



Perhaps due to the way I took my measurements (see attached pictures) but oddly enough my forks seem to be longer like the 28" but the chain-stay in line with the 26".


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## SKPC (May 28, 2020)

If your fork measures 14.5" which it seems to read on your tape(center of axle to lower truss plate) then it looks like a 26"-er.  Your seat tube measurement is spot on 19" like my 26"er.    Your other measurement(chain stay) should be from the Bottom bracket (crankset) shell center back towards the rear axle exactly as shown below..*.16.5"*   I will predict that yours will also measure 16.5"....if it measures 17" I will be suprised...see below.


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## bbell98138 (May 28, 2020)

SKPC said:


> If your fork measures 14.5" which it seems to read on your tape(center of axle to lower truss plate) then it looks like a 26"-er.  Your seat tube measurement is spot on 19" like my 26"er.    Your other measurement(chain stay) should be from the Bottom bracket (crankset) shell center back towards the rear axle exactly as shown below..*.16.5"*   I will predict that yours will also measure 16.5"....if it measures 17" I will be suprised...see below.
> View attachment 1202422



Gotcha, thanks. I'll take that measurement tomorrow.  I appreciate your tolerance of my nube-ness.


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## fordmike65 (May 29, 2020)

LWB Colson 26" vs 28" differences | Classic Balloon Tire Bicycles 1933-1965
					

I recently picked up a LWB Colson single bar that was equipped with 28" singletubes. At first I thought maybe they had been swapped in place of the original 26's for some odd reason. When I saw the ND D and Colson hub, I was pretty sure they were factory. The 36 catalog even lists the option for...




					thecabe.com
				




Tho not about motorbike Colsons, maybe this can help a bit?


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## bbell98138 (May 29, 2020)

Thank you for sharing!


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## bbell98138 (May 29, 2020)

I think you nailed it, 16 1/2.
Thank you!


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## Balloonoob (Aug 12, 2020)

Need a badge? https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/colson-badge.176360/


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