# Tutorial Prewar Schwinn rack reflectors



## mr.cycleplane (May 11, 2022)

This tutorial will be brief as a picture is worth a thousand words or so! Its pretty simple but there is some confusion and also there are some......unscrupulous sellers. Just because someone is selling an item and states it is 'the correct part'....don't take things at face value. Do a little research-this tutorial is part of that research. This tutorial applies only to prewar Schwinn rack reflectors. As you know Schwinn had different levels based on quality and the 'deluxe-ness' of their bikes. The top bikes got the best equipment and as the next 'lower' bike-had lesser equipment. You can easily see this if you are a prewar Schwinn collector in almost all their models.  This also applies to the rear rack reflectors. Documentation is weak and the first time much is actually documented for the dealers and customers alike was the 1940 Schwinn Dealer parts catalog. This catalog was probably one of the biggest undertakings by Arnold Schwinn Company and has never had another undertaking like this awesome piece of literature -taking years to complete.  It was at the bequest from the dealer network. Prior to that the briefest mention of such details in sales catalogs-basically letting you know 'something was there'.....period. The first two reflectors came out in 1936 but first listed in 1940 catalog creating confusion as to when they came out. The dx reflector came out before but was being used for other things and makes of bike-date unknown. What I want to talk about are the three main racks found on the prewar Schwinns that took reflectors. The first is the 6 hole deluxe rack-available with chrome top(with painted legs) and also a 6 hole painted/enamel finish version. Respectively these are the chromed rack-part number 2104 and the painted version-part number 2110. the third rack I would mention is the 9 hole 'dx' rack-part number 2108. Each has there own specific(correct!) reflector. The chromed top rack 2104 comes with reflector 487(first picture on the left). The next is for the painted rack 2110-the 'marble' reflector-part number 500(first picture in the middle). Last is the 480 'dx' reflector (third in the picture)for rack 2108. All these have glass-not plastic. I know there are plastic versions-especially the 'dx' version found on bikes-but the original is glass(has internal honey comb look). Please note in the second picture the correct attachment hardware for each. The biggest confusion comes on the deluxe rack reflector-please look at picture three. Note that one has a nice nickeled trim piece on it and the other seems rather plain(pot metal casting). Both are made by the same company(introduced circa 1935)












 but when supplied to the Arnold Schwinn Company they kicked it up a notch by adding the trim piece. Other than that it is just a road sign reflector. The road sign reflector is not the correct reflector-close but no cigar! Pretty basic-study pictures-chromed/deluxe(first) the painted version rack(second) the 'dx' version(third).


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## bobcycles (May 11, 2022)

ok ...for the record Schwinn opted for the standard non-chrome bezel #1,  To date have never found a factory installed chrome bezel cat-eye on an original bike...just the more generic stop sign.  I have however seen the chrome version on either buick or Plymouth taillight frames.  Schwinn also used the #3 
cut glass faceted one on 6 hole carriers ...most 9 hole carriers (prewar) I've seen were plastic jewel cut.  The Owl Eye (middle) was a 1940 feature up through
1941.... although a 1941 SuperDeluxe with chrome carrier would have gotten the #1 cat eye as would a 1940 cantilever superdeluxe....not the owl eye.  Imagine the board meetings deciding which goes where.


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## mr.cycleplane (May 11, 2022)

WOW-for the record-sounds impressive! 'opted for the non-chrome bezel #1'=hogwash! like you said...YOU have never found a chrome bezel cat eye on an original bike! i have had several-seen many others. the plymouth-buick-cadillac type mounts differently-seen those-i think the rear of body is also different/different clasp(same maker!). owned way too many of the marble type also-many without the marble and crushed to put that in dispute. your response is typical of those reading the 1940 catalog for the first time-these parts had been out for several years. finding the small faceted reflector on the rack is a great and cheap replacement-even back in the day-but is totally wrong! your statements are typical 'schwinn myth' in nature. you disagree and condemn. the purpose of this tutorial is to educate prospective/unaware buyers of those trying to pass similar looking pieces as 'the correct' part. not trying to cut into any ones sales!


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## PlasticNerd (May 11, 2022)

Wait.....................now I have to know the animal kingdom also? Cats eyes, Owls eyes? Great, whats next I'll have to study up on my Jaguars, Panthers,and StingRays!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the info guys ! I still learn more and more. 🤣 🤣 😎


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## mr.cycleplane (May 11, 2022)

what's needed here are more 'eagle eyes'!


PlasticNerd said:


> Wait.....................now I have to know the animal kingdom also? Cats eyes, Owls eyes? Great, whats next I'll have to study up on my Jaguars, Panthers,and StingRays!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the info guys ! I still learn more and more. 🤣 🤣 😎


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## Dave Stromberger (May 11, 2022)

bobcycles said:


> ok ...for the record Schwinn opted for the standard non-chrome bezel #1,  To date have never found a factory installed chrome bezel cat-eye on an original bike...just the more generic stop sign.  I have however seen the chrome version on either buick or Plymouth taillight frames.  Schwinn also used the #3
> cut glass faceted one on 6 hole carriers ...most 9 hole carriers (prewar) I've seen were plastic jewel cut.  The Owl Eye (middle) was a 1940 feature up through
> 1941.... although a 1941 SuperDeluxe with chrome carrier would have gotten the #1 cat eye as would a 1940 cantilever superdeluxe....not the owl eye.  Imagine the board meetings deciding which goes where.



I've pulled one with the chrome bezel from the tail light chrome off a '41 Cadillac.  Car versions always had the chrome bez, but othwerise same as the railroad sign versions. The retainer cups on the back varied based on application. The Caddy had it's own unique retainer.


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## mr.cycleplane (May 11, 2022)

agreed-the caddy-plymouth or whatever it was on the car taillight was chromed-no doubt the chromed version was offered to schwinn-they always went for the nicer stuff.


Dave Stromberger said:


> I've pulled one with the chrome bezel from the tail light chrome off a '41 Cadillac.  Car versions always had the chrome bez, but othwerise same as the railroad sign versions. The retainer cups on the back varied based on application. The Caddy had it's own unique retainer.


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## mr.cycleplane (May 11, 2022)

Restoring a bike is an expensive venture. Finding the absolute correct parts is sometimes impossible and substitute parts are often used. i can see the roadsign reflectors making great 'place-holders' i get it! or for the glass dx version a plastic version works great also-i get it. sometimes a $15-20 reflector sounds better than $75-85 for something.....do i dare say it-nobody really looks at? this tutorial sheds light on the subject for the preservationist!


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## bobcycles (May 11, 2022)

mr.cycleplane said:


> WOW-for the record-sounds impressive! 'opted for the non-chrome bezel #1'=hogwash! like you said...YOU have never found a chrome bezel cat eye on an original bike! i have had several-seen many others. the plymouth type mounts differently-seen those-i think the rear of body is also different/different clasp(same maker!). owned way too many of the marble type also-many without the marble and crushed to put that in dispute. your response is typical of those reading the 1940 catalog for the first time-these parts had been out for several years. finding the small faceted reflector on the rack is a great and cheap replacement-even back in the day-but is totally wrong! your statements are typical 'schwinn myth' in nature. you disagree and condemn. the purpose of this tutorial is to educate prospective/unaware buyers of those trying to pass similar looking pieces as 'the correct' part. not trying to cut into any ones sales!



 No I wasn't condemning....just observations from 100's of bikes I've seen and owned over the years. I don't believe Schwinn used the chrome framed
"Signal" type RR reflector....just the version with no trim.  And the owl eye was a 1940 and up thang.  Also had plenty of stock original never tampered
with Motorbikes with 6 hole carriers sporting the faceted jewel in there since day one.  remember... Schwinn like all mfgs did all kinds of stuff.  But one thing I will bet money on is Owl eye 1940 and up...and no chrome on the bezels of the autocycle type reflectors.


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## mr.cycleplane (May 11, 2022)

although i do not agree with your assessment of the cat eye reflector not having the nickeled bezel-think about it this way.....the year is 1936......'the design 
engineer approaches frank schwinn and asks him his opinion of which reflector should we put on the new 1936 autocycle-(the bike bearing his name)?  see picture below to help you out! i am not even gonna answer that because if you are a true prewar schwinn aficionado-the answer is obvious! as for 'never tampered with'! unless the item has been in your possession for the last 80 years its hard to make that statement-sounds like a 'salesmanship' gimmick! parts get replaced over time-there is no shame in that. but keeping it straight-historically is getting blurred over time. saying the schwinn factory did strange things with their bikes-i don't agree. schwinn was in the business of building bikes-all sales(99.9+%) went thru chicago cycle supply-who distributed and 'modified' from original factory specs!


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## PlasticNerd (May 11, 2022)

Is this a deal or no deal? I’ll go $45 on the chrome bezel one


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## mr.cycleplane (May 11, 2022)

uhhhhh....no dice!


PlasticNerd said:


> Is this a deal or no deal? I’ll go $45 on the chrome bezel one


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## Rust_Trader (May 11, 2022)

mr.cycleplane said:


> although i do not agree with your assessment of the cat eye reflector not having the nickeled bezel-think about it this way.....the year is 1936......'the design
> engineer approaches frank schwinn and asks him his opinion of which reflector should we put on the new 1936 autocycle-(the bike bearing his name)?  see picture below to help you out! i am not even gonna answer that because if you are a true prewar schwinn aficionado-the answer is obvious! as for 'never tampered with'! unless the item has been in your possession for the last 80 years its hard to make that statement-sounds like a 'salesmanship' gimmick! parts get replaced over time-there is no shame in that. but keeping it straight-historically is getting blurred over time. saying the schwinn factory did strange things with their bikes-i don't agree. schwinn was in the business of building bikes-all sales(99.9+%) went thru chicago cycle supply-who distributed and 'modified' from original factory specs!
> 
> View attachment 1624938



LOL @cyclonecoaster.com FRANK which one did you really pick???


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## cyclonecoaster.com (May 12, 2022)

I'll stand by my choice @Rust_Trader ... Frank think alike


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## mr.cycleplane (May 12, 2022)

Actually its not a debate! Worse things than being cancelled


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## danfitz1 (May 14, 2022)

Believe what you want. I believe with great certainty that this one on my 1939, that came from the original owner 2 years ago, is correct. It is exactly the same as the one on my blue 1937 Deluxe A/C that I got from the original owner in 1987.


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## bobcycles (May 14, 2022)

for the 'record' ....yep...no chrome bezels on the Schwinn version of those reflectors...
...nicer touch for sure...just not a Schwinn thang.   Frank decided to save the 4cents by
opting out of that additional bling factor


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## mr.cycleplane (May 14, 2022)

has that rack been replated? i too have seen many 'original' but different reflectors on these racks -from 'original owners' too! i am merely pointing out what the schwinn catalog says so we have some sort of guidance and not a free-for-all use whatever you want! you are certainly not the first or will be the last to challenge my somewhat rigid thinking!


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## mr.cycleplane (May 14, 2022)

bobcycles said:


> for the 'record' ....yep...no chrome bezels on the Schwinn version of those reflectors...
> ...nicer touch for sure...just not a Schwinn thang.   Frank decided to save the 4cents by
> opting out of that additional bling factor




'for the record'.....impressive! i can't tell you the number of "_________" i have come back with irrefutable evidence on a particular topic and put it in their face-instead of an apology or at least admit an error had been made they come back with...'so what'.


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## danfitz1 (May 14, 2022)

mr.cycleplane said:


> has that rack been replated? i too have seen many 'original' but different reflectors on these racks -from 'original owners' too! i am merely pointing out what the schwinn catalog says so we have some sort of guidance and not a free-for-all use whatever you want! you are certainly not the first or will be the last to challenge my somewhat rigid thinking!



No, nothing has been replated, repainted or altered…on either bike. Can’t get photo of the ‘37 right now. I’m moving and it went into deep storage. I don’t know enough to say chrome was never used, but it wasn’t used on either of mine.


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## mr.cycleplane (May 14, 2022)

.


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## buickmike (May 14, 2022)

Tyler, lock your threads down so peeps can't interfere  then add a disclaimer that they can do as they see fit.  Can't wait for the next lesson. In your series of infomercials.


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## mr.cycleplane (May 14, 2022)

thanks mike for your encouragement-appreciate it!


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## Billythekid (May 15, 2022)

I like threads like this I learn something everyday


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## Two Wheeler (May 15, 2022)

mr.cycleplane said:


> This tutorial will be brief as a picture is worth a thousand words or so! Its pretty simple but there is some confusion and also there are some......unscrupulous sellers. Just because someone is selling an item and states it is 'the correct part'....don't take things at face value. Do a little research-this tutorial is part of that research. This tutorial applies only to prewar Schwinn rack reflectors. As you know Schwinn had different levels based on quality and the 'deluxe-ness' of their bikes. The top bikes got the best equipment and as the next 'lower' bike-had lesser equipment. You can easily see this if you are a prewar Schwinn collector in almost all their models.  This also applies to the rear rack reflectors. Documentation is weak and the first time much is actually documented for the dealers and customers alike was the 1940 Schwinn Dealer parts catalog. This catalog was probably one of the biggest undertakings by Arnold Schwinn Company and has never had another undertaking like this awesome piece of literature -taking years to complete.  It was at the bequest from the dealer network. Prior to that the briefest mention of such details in sales catalogs-basically letting you know 'something was there'.....period. The first two reflectors came out in 1936 but first listed in 1940 catalog creating confusion as to when they came out. The dx reflector came out before but was being used for other things and makes of bike-date unknown. What I want to talk about are the three main racks found on the prewar Schwinns that took reflectors. The first is the 6 hole deluxe rack-available with chrome top(with painted legs) and also a 6 hole painted/enamel finish version. Respectively these are the chromed rack-part number 2104 and the painted version-part number 2110. the third rack I would mention is the 9 hole 'dx' rack-part number 2108. Each has there own specific(correct!) reflector. The chromed top rack 2104 comes with reflector 487(first picture on the left). The next is for the painted rack 2110-the 'marble' reflector-part number 500(first picture in the middle). Last is the 480 'dx' reflector (third in the picture)for rack 2108. All these have glass-not plastic. I know there are plastic versions-especially the 'dx' version found on bikes-but the original is glass(has internal honey comb look). Please note in the second picture the correct attachment hardware for each. The biggest confusion comes on the deluxe rack reflector-please look at picture three. Note that one has a nice nickeled trim piece on it and the other seems rather plain(pot metal casting). Both are made by the same company(introduced circa 1935)View attachment 1624820
> 
> View attachment 1624821
> 
> ...



I recently picked up what I believe to be a 39 Motorbike. It has this reflector on it. Comparing it to your picture it is slightly different. I have no way to know if it is original or not.


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## 1817cent (May 15, 2022)

Not original but i would use it in a pinch!


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## mr.cycleplane (May 15, 2022)

thanks dan for sharing-that reflector has been on there a long-long time! there are many reflectors-color-size-shapes that have been found on these racks-i have had a wild assortment of them myself over the years. this tutorial is just a starting/reference point. although my tutorial has an air of absoluteness to it i do recognize many other reflectors show up on these bikes!


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## danfitz1 (May 15, 2022)

mr.cycleplane said:


> thanks dan for sharing-that reflector has been on there a long-long time! there are many reflectors-color-size-shapes that have been found on these racks-i have had a wild assortment of them myself over the years. this tutorial is just a starting/reference point. although my tutorial has an air of absoluteness to it i do recognize many other reflectors show up on these bikes!



Yes, and chrome on occasion apparently.


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## bobcycles (May 16, 2022)

danfitz1 said:


> Yes, and chrome on occasion apparently.




Chrome on 'collectorized' bikes... once some one gets their hands on one of these racks they do as they see fit.
over 40 years of seeing, owning, buying, selling hundreds.... zero original unmolested bikes with a chrome bezel.  I'd say
as close to gospel as it gets.


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## mr.cycleplane (May 16, 2022)

OMG!  the creature that won't die......please someone-turn him into the new disinformation czar!


bobcycles said:


> Chrome on 'collectorized' bikes... once some one gets their hands on one of these racks they do as they see fit.
> over 40 years of seeing, owning, buying, selling hundreds.... zero original unmolested bikes with a chrome bezel.  I'd say
> as close to gospel as it gets.



in your own words....'once someone gets their hands on one of these racks they do as they see fit'.......now leave it there and keep quiet! please.

BTW- you haven't been in the hobby over 40 years. 
you should perhaps run a tutorial on 'collectorized' bikes as you do know a lot about that aspect of this hobby. maybe one on painting and another of seat restorations!


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## mr.cycleplane (May 16, 2022)

i think the guy is trying to bust your 'ball bearings!'


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## Rust_Trader (May 16, 2022)

I have owed tons of racks and some original unmolested bikes and have never had one of those chrome bezel reflectors on them.

I did and do to buy them single here and there from eBay because everyone wants them $$$ Shinny sells.

A few racks, in my opinion the black rack has the reflector Arnold Frank and Juan Schwinn picked. 🤪


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## mr.cycleplane (May 16, 2022)

did you ever stop to think that the correct and expensive (not because they are shiny) reflectors have been removed before they sold the racks to you? most of the racks you show have a wild assortment of post war crap on them-maybe as place holders! "...never had one of those chrome bezel reflectors on them'....hummm....i know you do have a deluxe rack with the correct reflector i can verify!!!! an interesting rack in your line-up shows a maroon rack(painted) with the marble reflector aluminum trim in very typical original condition-smashed/marble missing. had quite a few like that. but thanks for sharing!


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## Rust_Trader (May 16, 2022)

Good looking reflector, find it soon at DOND.


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## bobcycles (May 16, 2022)

And Cheers to that Santi!

ok...here's some straight forward info that might help new collectors wondering about prewar 6 hole reflectors

36' came the 'cat eye' reflector from the company that made RR sign and street sign reflectors in a variety of colors..Schwinn opted for red
it went on the only 36' chrome 6 hole carrier...that debuted on the 1st year autocycle.
Pot metal bezel "cat eye" reflector continued to be used up through 1941 on all Autocycle 6 hole chrome racks and often on Motorbike and others.
At some point...a faceted jewel was an option as well...maybe showing up in 37' or 38' through 40 on Motorbikes and others.
In 1940 The "owl eye" red marble became the common sight on Standard Autocycles and most Straightbar 40's I have 
seen, occasionally also Cantilever bikes 1940 and 41.
The only time you will see a chrome bezel 36 style "cat eye" on a bike is when a collector adds it for 'bling' factor
or they just think it looks cool.  The post erroneously stated that the chrome bezel reflector was factory installed.
I'm out....last post on this.....no personal attacks....just clarifying muddy water


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## Rust_Trader (May 16, 2022)

bobcycles said:


> And Cheers to that Santi!
> 
> ok...here's some straight forward info that might help new collectors wondering about prewar 6 hole reflectors
> 
> ...


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## mr.cycleplane (May 17, 2022)

thanks for sharing guys! i want to make a small correction to a comment i made about bob only being in the hobby for just so many years. I BELIEVE I MET BOB LATER after he had really got into the hobby very heavily-(maybe in the mid/late 1980's)after he had sold his original collection and decided to come back in and go full bore-as he is still doing. anyway just wanted to amend/clarify that comment!


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## mr.cycleplane (May 17, 2022)

in conclusion....build your bike anyway you want as there seems to be so many ways to do just that-who can say what is right and wrong.


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## slick (May 23, 2022)

Aaaaaaannnddd this is why I'm not a schwinn guy. All this hubbub over a reflector? News flash. These reflectors originated on cars. I have a 1934 Cadillac in my shop right now that I'm restoring for a customer.... low and behold, it has these reflectors on the taillight housings. Same exact ones. Two on each bracket. As far as correct on a bike rack? None of us were there or worked for the actual company, so in my opinion, it doesn't really matter. How many people have swapped something out on. Anything they've bought in the first ten minutes of ownership? Especially bikes and cars. So I'd guarantee, it's been screwed with. Especially if it's a schwinn. Every one I've seen has been collectorized. Deluxed, parts added to increase the value of a base model bike. But I'll end with this, at the ride, nobody will even notice. They just see a kool old bike being ridden, not hidden.


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