# Buying A Bike Outside Of Usa.    !!! Help !!!



## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

Hey everybody!

I have been working on a bike purchase over seas and i am trying to work out everything with customs. Boy this is rough. Does anybody have any useful information on getting through something like this?

How did you chose what to declare the value as? Were you able to prove the vintage bike was made in the usa to be relieved of the insane duties they charge? Did you ship air or by water? 

One thing im looking for is any documentation that can prove to the customs a prewar elgin is made in usa. Made in usa items are duty free with adequate proof. They arent in business anymore so thats sorta tough. 

This is crazy 
Thanks for all the help. 

Amanda


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## Freqman1 (Aug 17, 2016)

Sears is still in business! You might want to contact babjesus (Marc). V/r Shawn


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

Shawn ive been emailing him a lot. He answers most emails but some seem to slip past. Hope we get it straightened out

Im gonna call sears corporate for sure thanks for the tip!


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## bikebozo (Aug 17, 2016)

assemble some ads , get a letter from Scott MaCasky-Catfish ,and others who are historians -Customs should not  give you any trouble , with documents like that.


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

Customs is telling me it has to be a signed letter from the manufacturer or no dice. Many people here have experienced the same thing and customs wont do anything. Its absolute garbage if you ask me that a piece of american history has to have duty paid on it. Especially at a high rate. Im really angry about it.


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## HIGGINSFOREVER (Aug 17, 2016)

How about taking it apart.


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## WetDogGraphix (Aug 17, 2016)




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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Aug 17, 2016)

azbug-i said:


> Customs is telling me it has to be a signed letter from the manufacturer or no dice. Many people here have experienced the same thing and customs wont do anything. Its absolute garbage if you ask me that a piece of american history has to have duty paid on it. Especially at a high rate. Im really angry about it.



Cool....find an old sears letter head or have 2jakes photo shop you one and just sign the thing... include what model it is, when it was manufactured and which plant yada yada... make it look legit but short. 

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## Freqman1 (Aug 17, 2016)

Are you buying a bike from Marc? If so I thought he was going to handle the overseas part? V/r Shawn


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## WetDogGraphix (Aug 17, 2016)

Where is it coming from?


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## the tinker (Aug 17, 2016)

I like the bribe idea.....




 
" Maybe you might care for a salami?'


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## CrazyDave (Aug 17, 2016)

Send it triple wrapped vacuum sealed and in coffee.


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

Freqman1 said:


> Are you buying a bike from Marc? If so I thought he was going to handle the overseas part? V/r Shawn



Shawn, 

He did say hed cover the overseas bit but i think he meant shipping only. This is all for me to get it through customs.


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## WetDogGraphix (Aug 17, 2016)

[


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

Switzerland 

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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

@Freqman1 
Shawn,
Do you know if bluebirds have a stamp or anything indicating made in USA? the customs website is saying a marking saying made in USA can also likely pass it through. if i can't get a letter, which i probably can't, a stamp on a frame would be killer. 

Thanks!


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

they're saying i can fill this form out too which I'm working on. i want to get the manufacturing details correct. location and company. 
https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/CBP Form 3311.pdf


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## WetDogGraphix (Aug 17, 2016)




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## fordmike65 (Aug 17, 2016)

WetDogGraphix said:


> I'm sorry, but buying things from other countries is not the same as buying from the USA....They want US, American Dollars....
> pay it, or walk away.....
> I have to ask..why  Switzerland?



Because that's where the bike she is purchasing is located


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

Why the hell would i be complaining about paying duties if the bike was indeed foreign. Im not trying to break laws here. 

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## WetDogGraphix (Aug 17, 2016)

......


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

Im going to pay the money if i have to but its worth trying to avoid the damn near 800 dollars in fees. This is a product of the usa and i shouldnt have to pay duties on it. 

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## Pantmaker (Aug 17, 2016)

Take it apart and ship,it as scrap metal. Boom...done.


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## Joe Buffardi (Aug 17, 2016)

Get a copy of the patent. It should be available here in a thread somewhere. Its a US patenet and its legit.


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

Andrew a dozen boxes from Switzerland would cost a fortune

Joe i saved all the patent images from nostalgic.net too . Im gonna submit all kinds of poop. 

Out of principle im just determined to do all i can to get them to accept it. And with some folks help. 

Sears has an archive and im going to try to contact their media department who runs it and see if i can get the legal form from them too. I know its a long shot. But ill put in the time and work to save fricken almost 800 bucks

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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

Does anyone have a high quality scan of the patent? The one on nostalgic.net is ok but a little small

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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

I mean shipping a dozen boxes would cost marc a fortune and certainly customs would know i was trying to beat the system haha

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## WetDogGraphix (Aug 17, 2016)

......


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

I got it when you said pay the money  the first time. And i just said i will if they dont grant the waiver. But im going to submit what i can when the bike gets here. And please dont repeat the words pay the money to me again. Im still getting a great bike. Even if i have to pay it.

This post is for constructive help and suggestions to help me prove it was made here. I understand that i will probably have to pay. But maybe ill be able to get it granted. Ok!

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## cds2323 (Aug 17, 2016)

I was looking for the patent and in the meantime Joe responded. Glad you already thought of it.


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

Make no mistake. Im extremely excited to be getting this bike. Even if i have to drop an unforeseen 1000 dollars in duties and customs fees. But im not lazy and im not a push over and if i can prove it was made here id like to and keep near 800 of that 1000.


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## WetDogGraphix (Aug 17, 2016)

......


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

What is your problem. Why can't you just let it go. I am tired of reading repeated words. Im gonna pay the fricken money if i have to!!!!!!!!

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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Aug 17, 2016)

azbug-i said:


> What is your problem. Why can't you just let it go. I am tired of reading repeated words. Im gonna pay the fricken money if i have to!!!!!!!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



Wait...yer getting a bluebird?...damn..they be popping up like phantoms lately....haha kidding.... I didn't see a bluebird in his listing?

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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

He didnt really make a listing per say. I just saw it in his lineup. And we made a deal. 

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## cds2323 (Aug 17, 2016)

Go to www.google/patents. Enter in the patent number 2,199,536 and you will get all 10 pages of the patent. Clear and legible.


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

You rock thank you!

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## cds2323 (Aug 17, 2016)

Might not help, but New Departure and Morrow hubs have USA stamped on them.


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## azbug-i (Aug 17, 2016)

Good call ill look for stamps on components to. The website says markings pass. I think i have a decent shot. 

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## the tinker (Aug 18, 2016)

"  Vee Vant Old  American bike!"


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## bicycle larry (Aug 18, 2016)

ha ha tinker what a guy you are ha ha !!!!!!!! from bicycle larry


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## 56 Vette (Aug 18, 2016)

Very elite club to join! The BB club that is, congratulations, hope you don't have too big of a pain in the a$$ to get it home. Sounds like you are on the track to save a few bucks, and who of wouldn't at least try to! Joe.


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## cyclingday (Aug 18, 2016)

Amanda, this whole thread reads like your spinning and there's no tomorrow.
Slow down, take a deep breath, and relax.
It's going to be fine. Ask all of the pertinent questions, and you'll get through all of the hoops necessary to get where you need to be.
Good luck with the transaction.


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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

I could just be in some big trouble with customs, and I dont want to pay duties. Or penalties especially. and im still waiting to hear from marc. 

Thanks for wishing me luck. I hope it works. 

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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

Im super excited to get a bb. I just hope it arrives safely and the shipping gets done correctly.  

Everyone should learn from this. As a buyer you have to do stuff with customs ahead of time. You cant just get a bike in the mail 

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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

Im feeling better i heard from marc  im glad he didnt ship yet so we can figure things out. 

Does anyone have any advice on what to declare bikes as. Is it best to declare it at the value youre paying? Or is there no benefit to valueing it at what you pay? Does it work as insurance? You cant very well insure something for 7k and declare it as 1k of course. But im just wondering. Should one just declare it low?

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## bricycle (Aug 18, 2016)

Does the saddle stamp say made in USA?


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## bricycle (Aug 18, 2016)

OG tires will say made in usa. Only some JC Higgins were made in other countries.


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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

It probably doesnt have og tires since its restored. But wheels and seat could maybe

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## bikewhorder (Aug 18, 2016)

azbug-i said:


> Im feeling better i heard from marc  im glad he didnt ship yet so we can figure things out.
> 
> Does anyone have any advice on what to declare bikes as. Is it best to declare it at the value youre paying? Or is there no benefit to valueing it at what you pay? Does it work as insurance? You cant very well insure something for 7k and declare it as 1k of course. But im just wondering. Should one just declare it low?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



This is just wild speculation on my part but its not at all insurance, more like a tax, Its hard to prove the value on something like this so try to get it as low as you can.  Any time I shipped to Marc he would have me declare the value at like $100.  It should be easy to prove this was made in USA so you shouldn't have to pay anything.


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## kccomet (Aug 18, 2016)

i dont know marc, but doesnt he have a handle on this, at least and idea on fees. i feel your pain, i had a bike shipped from the netherlands and i was trying to check this and call here and there customs etc, with little results or info. i believe almost every country is different on their fees. it cost me about 200 dollars, customs called after it was delivered to the airport and i had to pay before i picked it up.it was in a huge crate and i mean huge. i bought bikes from france twice came to my door in bike boxes and i had no fees or custom charges. its the unknowing that will spin you out or at least it did me. i was fine with 200, but if they said 2000, what are you going to do. its not knowing, i think some of its hit and miss on the duties and fees and least what i read when i was spinning. good luck, let us know what happens


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## catfish (Aug 18, 2016)

This is bureaucratic BS! Call and import / export house. They might charge you for their help, but it'll get taken care of. 



azbug-i said:


> Customs is telling me it has to be a signed letter from the manufacturer or no dice. Many people here have experienced the same thing and customs wont do anything. Its absolute garbage if you ask me that a piece of american history has to have duty paid on it. Especially at a high rate. Im really angry about it.


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## catfish (Aug 18, 2016)

Be careful about low balling it too much. The customs people know how to google stuff too. And there have been plenty of Bluebirds at auctions that will pop up in  a search. The last thing you want, is them coming down on you with a big fee or penalty for trying to save a little money. 



azbug-i said:


> Im feeling better i heard from marc  im glad he didnt ship yet so we can figure things out.
> 
> Does anyone have any advice on what to declare bikes as. Is it best to declare it at the value youre paying? Or is there no benefit to valueing it at what you pay? Does it work as insurance? You cant very well insure something for 7k and declare it as 1k of course. But im just wondering. Should one just declare it low?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## catfish (Aug 18, 2016)

http://thecabe.com/forum/media/_1.18668/


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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

Thats a good point. I might call who you recommend catfish. Ill try anything. 

Chris i feel you. I might have to value it low just because the only proof of value is something like ebay or a forum and maybe they wouldnt consider that adequate in the event of insurance needing to be paid. The type of documentation they require to prove it was made here is not simple. They only accept the forms i mentioned. Affidavit from the manufacturer or stamped markings. Thats it.

Now bikes from france im floored your fee was so low unless you declared them at little value. 

I have to pay 11% of whatever i declare the value as. According to customs. 

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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

I dont think marc should be responsible for duties. I wouldn't want to be as a seller. 

I just dont want to pay 1000 dollars in fees because thats just wrong. 

Im considering just valueing it at 1000 and calling it a day. Pay 110 dollars and be done with it. 

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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

Im still going to speak more with customs

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## the tinker (Aug 18, 2016)

"Nein Fraulein, Your papers are not in order.......explain again this......blue bird."


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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

catfish said:


> Be careful about low balling it too much. The customs people know how to google stuff too. And there have been plenty of Bluebirds at auctions that will pop up in  a search. The last thing you want, is them coming down on you with a big fee or penalty for trying to save a little money.



Good point!


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## bricycle (Aug 18, 2016)

11% x $7000?= $770 is a small price to pay (kidding) for becoming a BB owner, and being awed by most everyone.


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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

Im paying more like 1000 to 1200 in fees . Not 770

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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

Its still worth it but why pay it if i dont have to. I just want it to get here safe

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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

Between buying it, the duties, the bank fees, and the customs handling fees, customs broker fees. Docking fees. Its adding up. It wasnt just 7k plus duties.  It doesnt matter either

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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

I know im still getting a good deal 

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## bricycle (Aug 18, 2016)

hope it all works in your favor in the end.


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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

Me too

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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

Thank you

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## bikewhorder (Aug 18, 2016)

I don't know, for that much in fees I'd be considering buying a plane ticket to Switzerland and trying to smuggle it back in my body cavities.


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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

Hahahaha i know i was like between his shipping fees and my fees to have done all this i could have flown there hahaha

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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

Its just an awesome feeling to be getting an awesome deal and then feels like a bummer to add 1200 to 1500 on top because of customs

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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

Im just thankful i got a good deal on it so the fees dont bring it to not a good deal anymore. 

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## Awhipple (Aug 18, 2016)

Good luck with the bike! It's nice to see a bike like this come back to the states. Can't wait to see it at one of our rides!


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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

Im super excited 

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## Robertriley (Aug 18, 2016)

meh....it's just a bike and kind of ugly too!


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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

Hahahahaha nice try

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## azbug-i (Aug 18, 2016)

Things seem to going better with organizing this im feeling much better! Cant wait. Almost cant believe im getting a bb

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## mike j (Aug 19, 2016)

A little late, but I'll add my two cents. I believe that Catfish gave you the most on the point advise so far. Contacting a Customs broker house may cost you some money but should be far less than the fee estimate your getting. They know all the in's & out's. Also, have you talked to a
Customs official personally ?  They are pretty intelligent as far as what is owed exactly, which could be to your advantage, if you don't owe anything. If you can get in touch with the person in charge of the point of entry, where the bike is coming thru, may help. If it's a huge port, such as Newark, that may not be so easy. The few times that I've had to import certain items, & dealt with them personally, they've been very helpful & fair. Good luck with it, I'm sure it will be well worth it in the end. By the way, I have a nice Skylark I'll trade you for it.


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## azbug-i (Aug 19, 2016)

The customs broker at the port of entry here is who i was talking to and she basically said no iffs ands or buts ill be paying 1000 plus worth of duties, customs broker fees, handling fees, etc. 

We have a plan and i think its going better. We will see. I hope it works out.

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## Handle Bar Hoarder (Aug 19, 2016)

never buy out side  the us


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## filmonger (Aug 20, 2016)

OK, Guy's - I am a Freight Forwarder & Customs Broker...... I have agents all over the states and around the world. If it was declared as a Frame, Fork and parts thereof the US code HS 8714912000 Valued over 600 USD or Declared as Other 8714913000 .it is 3.9 percent duty. Keep in mind this calculation will include the cost of the Bike, Insurance & Freight ( CIF Value )...  It pays to get your paperwork right - If you give me your costings and location I'll ask my local agent for a quote for you.


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## the tinker (Aug 20, 2016)

"I will decide the fees on this ....bluebird."


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Aug 20, 2016)

filmonger said:


> OK, Guy's - I am a Freight Forwarder & Customs Broker...... I have agents all over the states and around the world. If it was declared as a Frame, Fork and parts thereof the US code HS 8714912000 Valued over 600 USD or Declared as Other 8714913000 .it is 3.9 percent duty. Keep in mind this calculation will include the cost of the Bike, Insurance & Freight ( CIF Value )...  It pays to get your paperwork right - If you give me your costings and location I'll ask my local agent for a quote for you.



Filmonger is da shiet! 

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## azbug-i (Aug 20, 2016)

Filmonger thank you, im not sure if hes made arrangements yet. Let me email him. I fully agree about getting paperwork right.

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## the tinker (Aug 20, 2016)

"Customs Agent ???...............We aint got no customs agent."




 

"We don't have no stinkin custom agent"!!!


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## 2jakes (Aug 20, 2016)

azbug-i said:


> Hey everybody!
> 
> I have been working on a bike purchase over seas and i am trying to work out everything with customs. Boy this is rough. Does anybody have any useful information on getting through something like this?
> 
> ...




HS tariff codes, import duty & taxes for Bicycle frame - DutyCalculator

Not sure if this helps or if you have already made arrangements.
There are several listings or categories.
Perhaps the way you list the bike may make for a lesser
fee since the company is no longer in business.
Good Luck Amanda.


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## the tinker (Aug 20, 2016)

"Arrangements have been made Fraulein........your papers are in order."


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## RUDY CONTRATTI (Aug 20, 2016)

WOW ..BEEN ON THE ROAD..BACK EAST NOW..AND AFTER FIVE PAGES OF ...WELL ..ALOT..I AM SURE THIS BIRD WILL BE SOMETHING TO SEE..AND CANT WAIT TO SEE IT ..COMING FROM A FAR OFF DISTANT LAND??? HOPE ITS GOT ALL ITS WINGS WHEN OR IF IT GETS HERE...GOOD LUCK LADY!!!MAKE US ALL PROUD OF ALL THE LEG WORK IT TOOK FOR YOU TO GET THIS BIKE BACK TO THE STATES WHERE IT CAME FROM ...AND BELONGS!!!!
YOUR TRUELY ...RUDY C . OUTER BANKS .....NORTH CAROLINA...


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## azbug-i (Aug 20, 2016)

Thank you !!!

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## 2jakes (Aug 20, 2016)

*Be careful tinker, there’s a new customs policy.*


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