# Colson Commander Thread



## 37fleetwood (Apr 5, 2013)

*This is the official Colson Commander Thread.*




​


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## 37fleetwood (Apr 5, 2013)

*Please feel free to post photos of your bike, your friends bike or any information you'd like to share here.
This is also the place to discuss this amazing Art Deco classic.*​


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## 37fleetwood (Apr 5, 2013)

Since Marty doesn't do photos I'll post a few of the ones I have for him.
First though I'd like to say all the nay saying and accusations of snobbery are totally out of place here. this is all about the bikes.


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## 37fleetwood (Apr 5, 2013)

For anyone interested, the train in the ad was the Union Pacific M-10005. another very popular example of 1930's streamlining. every kid back then knew these trains.





Louis Marx made millions of these M-10005 streamline passenger trains.


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## fordmike65 (Apr 5, 2013)

*I'm already drooling.*

Since I don't have one to take pics of(and probably never will), can I just stare at these & drool??


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## cyclingday (Apr 5, 2013)

Thanks Scott, for posting the pictures of the bike.

The Colson Commander is a very elegant design, that is notable in it's total lack of ornamentation that was so prevalent in it's day. No truss rods, no rack, and seat springs that disappear under the pan.  

It was un like any other bike design at that time. It is very easy to see where the concept for the Elgin twin series bikes came from, but where the Colson design was light and dainty, the Elgin bikes would be heavy and bulky.

One of my absolute favorite features of the Colson, is the continuous curve fender braces. They are not one sided separate pieces like the later Shelby curve braces would be. But, one continuous piece from one hub axle to the other.

Very subtle graceful and beautiful.

The battery compartment is also amazingly smart and cool. again unlike anything else from any other manufacturer.

To look at that bike, you have to put yourself back in 1936 and think about what everyone else was doing, and then take a long look at this bike, and only then can you really appreciate its simplicity of design.


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## Freqman1 (Apr 5, 2013)

More pics of Marty's amazing machine


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## OldRider (Apr 5, 2013)

fordmike65 said:


> Since I don't have one to take pics of(and probably never will), can I just stare at these & drool??




I'm with Mike on this one.......oh so cool but WAY outta my league.


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## Gary Mc (Apr 5, 2013)

I'm right there with Mike & Old Rider drooling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Amazing bikes in their simple streamlined design.


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## dfa242 (Apr 5, 2013)

It would be interesting to hear some insight into what caused this model to be as rare as it is - did they just make very few of them?  Was it a flop in the market?


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## rockabillyjay (Apr 5, 2013)

...And what was it's sale price compared to other deluxe bikes of the era?


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## babyjesus (Apr 6, 2013)

*Also*

...I'm also drooling.  Totally unique bike with tons of model specific parts. Very special indeed. Best of the best and incredibly individual. Even if that did make it less successful it stand alone and I respect that more because it's sort of brave and risky in a world of tank bikes. 

I want one!


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## OldRider (Apr 6, 2013)

Scott and I were talking last night about the eery similarities between the Commander and the CCM Flyte, look at the rear of the frame, its almost identical.I believe the Flyte and Commander were both new for 1936, the Colson plant Aleyria Ohio and the CCM plant in Weston Ontario Canada were within a few hundred miles of each other.......could someone have copied the other? Interesting to think about and definitely not taking anything away from the Commander, its still unique and beautiful !


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## bike (Apr 6, 2013)

*High price during depression and 36 CW Roadmaster battery tray*



cyclingday said:


> ....
> 
> The battery compartment is also amazingly smart and cool. again unlike anything else from any other manufacturer.
> 
> ....




Pretty sure the 36 CW bike with the "aristocrat" style tank had a similar battery tray.

Most deluxe bikes in the 30s were low production as the depression was in full swing. Look at og schoolyard photos -pre war NO tanks to be seen- post war- lots of tanks....Schwinn pedaled backwards after the Aerocycle- innovative design is not necessarily appreciated at its introduction...


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## scrubbinrims (Apr 6, 2013)

Scott thank for initiating this thread, but it will be a several weeks before my '36 Commander will be here and ready to post after detailing and upgrading chrome.

One bicycle I like to post is one from brwstrmgmt "basement dwellers" gallery page as it has the black/ivory color scheme I have only seen once (it is in the foreground ).




As to the rarity of the Commander series:
After searching ebay and CL for "Colson" one is likely to find relatively very few hits, mostly tricycles and after years of looking, it is hard not to come to the conclusion that Colson was a small shop operation producing less than it's contemporaries.
I would only consider the ribbed rainbow tank series "common" for its numerous years in prewar production and the fact that it was a base model for Firestone.

Also, distribution was also probably low as well and I do not believe the Firestone contract was inked in '36 for the Commander to have an appearance, so probably few outlets for sale.

Typically, to be truly "rare" there has to be low production, a short run as a single season, but also sales and survivability.
It would not surprise me if the '36 Commander was a sales flop being radically different from the norm, but also it was mentioned that these were $90 in another thread which seems to be a whopper of a price...maybe the cost of having to hire industrial designer Wilbur Henry Adams.

So this bicycle is truly rare by at least my definition, but probably for many reasons in supply/demand we are left to speculate.

Chris


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## biker (Apr 9, 2013)

*Measurments*

Does anyone know what size OD tubing was used for the frame and does anyone have any dimensions on the bike? Some say it was built for adults as opposed to being a boys bike as were the later built ballooners.


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## scrubbinrims (Apr 9, 2013)

ronbug said:


> Does anyone know what size OD tubing was used for the frame and does anyone have any dimensions on the bike? Some say it was built for adults as opposed to being a boys bike as were the later built ballooners.




The specs on page one of this thread that 37fleetwood provided has the frame at 20" which I would consider on the larger size comparably speaking.
One thing is for sure though...you have to "man up" to own one.
Chris


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## babyjesus (Apr 9, 2013)

scrubbinrims said:


> Scott thank for initiating this thread, but it will be a several weeks before my '36 Commander will be here and ready to post after detailing and upgrading chrome.
> 
> One bicycle I like to post is one from brwstrmgmt "basement dwellers" gallery page as it has the black/ivory color scheme I have only seen once (it is in the foreground ).
> View attachment 91144
> ...




Is the bike next to it (second one in) the same model but incomplete/without the head shroud piece and with added truss rods? It has the same incredible stem. Gotta love those stems they are amazing. I saw one on a twin cushion once - they are impressive.


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## Hobo Bill (Apr 10, 2013)

*faster miles per hour eh!*

This bike is treat to ride..i've had my commander for about 3 years and i ride it most every where...it's a big boys bike...this bike is just 'FLAMBASTIC".................................


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## charnleybob (Apr 18, 2013)




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## charnleybob (Apr 18, 2013)




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## charnleybob (Apr 18, 2013)




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## charnleybob (Apr 18, 2013)




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## charnleybob (Apr 18, 2013)




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## Nickinator (Apr 18, 2013)

what ever happened to that one? looks like some one punched it in the stomach, owch.

Nick.


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## charnleybob (Apr 18, 2013)

It got fixed and restored.
Will send those pictures later...


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## Freqman1 (Apr 18, 2013)

Dang I thought maybe it was a project that you could throw in on the Monark deal! Would like to see the "after" pics. V/r Shawn


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## fatbike (Apr 18, 2013)

This is a great thread. Thanks Scott S. 36 Commander is on e of my favorite Colson's. Chris I know where that bike came, the owner was not ready to let it go when I inquired. Lucky! 



My theory with these that they were small number of them produced and also possible breaks or cracks with the tubing. 

Love the 1st Commander posted, Ive seen photos of it before. Great original with the special Commander handlebar and the correct early Lobdel and ever so hard to find seat-post diameter for Colson specifically. 

The 37, 38 and 39 never came in a 18 1/2 only at least 21" and had a long wheel-base unlike the 36. So anything resembling the 1936 frame size would be an Impostor. I do not have this one anymore, it went to a good home when times were tough for me.

Beware of several Imitation 37,38 and 39 impostors, there are several that have been passed on as the real deal in past years. They most likely have been restored  And possible 36 ones... The later years were copied after the 36 Commander and so again if you were to copy those I'm sure the 36 was too. There are things to tell if there are real looking up inside the flat tank that is a dead give away if you know what it is. 



Bill I have yet to see your bike in person. Great bike and patina!




I will have one someday... I know it! I would trade a couple rare Colson for one for sure. Simple great looking bicycles. I believe there are about 9-10 known in the hobby.


I have only had the 37 version of this bike, extremely rare! It was a project. There were a couple cracks on the front part of the tubing near the head tube on both tubes. I suspect this was part of the disaster of these ever surviving long term. This one is the only real dated one known in the hobby that I know of.  And also one 38 dated one as well and from what I know the 39 is yet to be found, the same with no flat tank.



Bob thanks for posting your Commanders as well. Did your maroon Commander have a battery tank lid or the pin holes for one? Curious...


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## charnleybob (Apr 18, 2013)

The tank is complete with door, etc.
It was found in southern Colorado 20+ years ago and with the same collector since then.
These frames, like the Elgin Twin bars, seem to suffer from stress fractures and "male rider" abuse.
This could explain why these bikes are so rare, they just broke.
Will do the pictures when I get time.


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## Nickinator (Apr 18, 2013)

but unlike the elgin twin bar, colson did not make many commanders and of these even fewer monark x-26 steel versions were made. 
They broke a lot, cool design but in the long run stupid design.

Nick.



charnleybob said:


> The tank is complete with door, etc.
> It was found in southern Colorado 20+ years ago and with the same collector since then.
> These frames, like the Elgin Twin bars, seem to suffer from stress fractures and "male rider" abuse.
> This could explain why these bikes are so rare, they just broke.
> Will do the pictures when I get time.


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## charnleybob (Apr 18, 2013)

Going thru a box of old pictures, here is the elusive '38.
On the back of picture;  3-07-95, as found. Castelli now owns, is restored.
[Interesting thing about Colsons, they changed their forks every year on these bikes, especially the waterfall models. The '37 has the widest across at 3.5" (truss rod to truss rod), with the '38 is 3" wide.]


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## babyjesus (Apr 18, 2013)

fatbike said:


> from what I know the 39 is yet to be found, the same with no flat tank.








Isn't the second one in the one you mention from '39 with no flat tank?


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## fatbike (Apr 18, 2013)

The 2nd one inline is a 39 replica behind the yellow and black one.


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## fatbike (Apr 18, 2013)

Yes Bob correct It is a 38 and was found by Castelli originally. It has changed hands a few times since Castelli. Chuck Rosa owned and restored it  "from what I heard". The bike was in super rough shape and the tank was partially built back on one side. Half the bike was rusted out from what I understand. Amazing that the original water fall nameplate was still attached to the bike. Than owned by someone else after Chuck I do not recall who and now owned by ours truly Scott McCasky which purchased it about two years ago and now also owns my 37 Commander. 

Photo attached of the 38 and what the bike has been restored too. For someone holding onto to one of rarest bicycles in the hobby and getting a plaque... had a very serious look on him... 

So what the hobby knows of that actually exist as far as 37 and 38 goes... Scott owns them folks. 39 has yet be found. Examine the flow of the frame lines and the top of the seat post mass. Hardly protruding past the top bar. Unlike the 36... replicas do not resemble the same and copy the 36 along with the crank case. Completely different...   


Colson forks do change every year into the 1940s. Not one fork on their fleet models are the same or the same width. They tend to get narrower along with the fender every year plus the peak on the crown appears in 1937.

Derek



charnleybob said:


> Going thru a box of old pictures, here is the elusive '38.
> On the back of picture;  3-07-95, as found. Castelli now owns, is restored.
> [Interesting thing about Colsons, they changed their forks every year on these bikes, especially the waterfall models. The '37 has the widest across at 3.5" (truss rod to truss rod), with the '38 is 3" wide.]


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## fatbike (Apr 18, 2013)

Very cool Bob. Neat Commander, Different from the rest... The design didn't make it is my guess too.







charnleybob said:


> The tank is complete with door, etc.
> It was found in southern Colorado 20+ years ago and with the same collector since then.
> These frames, like the Elgin Twin bars, seem to suffer from stress fractures and "male rider" abuse.
> This could explain why these bikes are so rare, they just broke.
> Will do the pictures when I get time.


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## supper15fiets (Apr 19, 2013)

fatbike said:


> Yes Bob correct It is a 38 and was found by Castelli originally. It has changed hands a few times since Castelli. Chuck Rosa owned and restored it  "from what I heard". The bike was in super rough shape and the tank was partially built back on one side. Half the bike was rusted out from what I understand. Amazing that the original water fall nameplate was still attached to the bike. Than owned by someone else after Chuck I do not recall who and now owned by ours truly Scott McCasky which purchased it about two years ago and now also owns my 37 Commander.
> 
> Photo attached of the 38 and what the bike has been restored too. For someone holding onto to one of rarest bicycles in the hobby and getting a plaque... had a very serious look on him...
> 
> ...




Very nice design! Love these! Very nice restoration to!


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## charnleybob (Apr 19, 2013)

This is another design from September,1937, (American Bicylist Magazine)
Check out the design on the tank with the 3 raised ridges on the tank matching the 3 tips on the chainguard. This one has never been found, to my knowledge, either.
I love the '39 minimalist style. Never seen that one either.


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## charnleybob (Apr 19, 2013)

1939


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## Freqman1 (Apr 19, 2013)

That bike looks a lot like the Monark "Speedster" which I beleive was only '39 as well. I notice Bill Triplett has a few realy nice Colsons and wonder what the thoughts are on those. V/r Shawn


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## fatbike (Apr 19, 2013)

39 is really neat and simple. I would love to know what the actual WF nameplate looks like and how its set up. The same waterfall badge was also the same for the 39 grill tank model.


Three rib Commander has yet to be found from what I understand. I know where an imitation is.


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## Oldbikes (Apr 19, 2013)

"Chuck Rosa owned and restored it "from what I heard"."  
Chuck did not restore it, Castelli had it restored, but do not know who restored it.  It was in a collection that Chuck bought.  I saw the before pics that Chuck also had.  
Killer rare bike though for sure!

The waterfall badge on the '38 is STUNNING in and of itself!


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## fatbike (Apr 19, 2013)

Thanks for clarifying the resto... The nameplate is amazing!!! It Is a killer bicycle.


Well... back to the original thread of this post. Scott thanks for starting this with such an amazing bicycle the 36 commander in incredible original condition. Wow! If I were so lucky to have my hands such a bike.









Oldbikes said:


> "Chuck Rosa owned and restored it "from what I heard"."
> Chuck did not restore it, Castelli had it restored, but do not know who restored it.  It was in a collection that Chuck bought.  I saw the before pics that Chuck also had.
> Killer rare bike though for sure!
> 
> The waterfall badge on the '38 is STUNNING in and of itself!


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## mike j (Jun 4, 2013)

*1953 ? Colson Commander*

This bike has been hanging in my garage for the past twenty five years. Rescued from the trash, put back together,& did some paint touch ups back then. Fenders were originally chrome and poor condition. Unknown if wheels were chrome or painted. Tires are Good Year All weather, seem to be original, but thinking of a new similar tire to ride it. Serial # 3K 1398 Any info. would be appreciated. Mike J


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## 37fleetwood (Apr 18, 2014)

Here are a couple more of Marty's Commander. it's neat reading and looking at the photos of the progression of this model.


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## 37fleetwood (Apr 20, 2014)

More photos of Marty's Colson


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## outsider13 (Jun 9, 2016)

Hello, new here . But been on the RRB site for a while..so anyway here is my new acquisition
any info would be appreciated


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## fordmike65 (Jun 9, 2016)

outsider13 said:


> Hello, new here . But been on the RRB site for a while..so anyway here is my new acquisition
> any info would be appreciated
> View attachment 326396 View attachment 326397 View attachment 326398 View attachment 326399 View attachment 326400 View attachment 326401



:eek::eek::eek:


Been wondering when you were gonna make it over here. Welcome to The Cabe. Hell of a first post there!


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## Joe Buffardi (Jun 9, 2016)

Neat!


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## fordmike65 (Jun 9, 2016)

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=262354591206


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Jun 9, 2016)

fordmike65 said:


> :eek::eek::eek:
> 
> 
> Been wondering when you were gonna make it over here. Welcome to The Cabe. Hell of a first post there!



Eek eek?.... 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## DonChristie (Jun 9, 2016)

Welcome Outsider 13! Nice Colson! Is that the imfamous garage sale score posted on FB last week? We are all jealous! Ha!
Don Christie


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## fordmike65 (Jun 9, 2016)

schwinndoggy said:


> Welcome Outsider 13! Nice Colson! Is that the imfamous garage sale score posted on FB last week? We are all jealous! Ha!
> Don Christie




Believe it or not...it's _another_ one.


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## bikewhorder (Jun 9, 2016)

Yee Ha!


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## DonChristie (Jun 9, 2016)

Another Commander? Are these gonna be like the dime a dozen bluebirds now? Ha!


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## outsider13 (Jun 9, 2016)

fordmike65 said:


> :eek::eek::eek:
> 
> 
> Been wondering when you were gonna make it over here. Welcome to The Cabe. Hell of a first post there!



 Thanks fordmike, I figured with this frame I'd better get in here
here is a cool vid on the designer, That horsefarmer posted on RRB

http://erieartmuseum.org/exhibits/exhibits2014/WilburHenryAdams/WilburHenryAdams.html


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## outsider13 (Jun 9, 2016)

schwinndoggy said:


> Another Commander? Are these gonna be like the dime a dozen bluebirds now? Ha!




.................Hope Not.........


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## Obi-Wan Schwinnobi (Jun 9, 2016)

fordmike65 said:


> Believe it or not...it's a _another_ one.



I don't understand why you are all excited about this colson... you love schwinns remember?!

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## 37fleetwood (Jun 9, 2016)

luckily you have the hard part, the rest of it is going to be fairly straight forward. I've talked to John and he says he made the braces, the only other really difficult piece, so it's time to gather parts and start fauxing in fork and fenders.


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## American Vintage Bicycle Supply (Jun 12, 2016)

charnleybob said:


> This is another design from September,1937, (American Bicylist Magazine)
> Check out the design on the tank with the 3 raised ridges on the tank matching the 3 tips on the chainguard. This one has never been found, to my knowledge, either.
> I love the '39 minimalist style. Never seen that one either.




I've seen one of these commanders before and it is for sale. Is there technically still not one known?


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## fordmike65 (Apr 25, 2017)

outsider13 said:


> Hello, new here . But been on the RRB site for a while..so anyway here is my new acquisition
> any info would be appreciated
> View attachment 326396 View attachment 326397 View attachment 326398 View attachment 326399 View attachment 326400 View attachment 326401



Don't know why or how....but the stars aligned just right this past weekend & I ended up with this 1936 Colson Commander in my yard.


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## scrubbinrims (Apr 25, 2017)

fordmike65 said:


> Don't know why or how....but the stars aligned just right this past weekend & I ended up with this 1936 Colson Commander in my yard.



So for those of us keeping tabs on this model, is this the same frame as the one posted on this page by "outsider 13?"
Chris


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## fordmike65 (Apr 25, 2017)

scrubbinrims said:


> So for those of us keeping tabs on this model, is this the same frame as the one posted on this page by "outsider 13?"
> Chris





fordmike65 said:


> Don't know why or how....but the stars aligned just right this past weekend & I ended up with this 1936 Colson Commander in my yard.



Yes sir. That's precisely why I quoted his post


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## fordmike65 (Apr 25, 2017)

Any pics of the Commander you picked up a while back Chris? @scrubbinrims


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## cyclingday (Apr 25, 2017)

It's good to see this thread back up for discussion.
With a 36 Commander project surfacing at the Copake swap meet this past weekend, and Mikes recent acquisition, its pretty exciting to see a few more examples joining the ranks.
Congratulations, Mike!


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## Robertriley (Apr 25, 2017)

These this are popping up almost as much as those damn Bluebirds


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## Robertriley (Apr 25, 2017)

Robertriley said:


> These this are popping up almost as much as those damn Bluebirds



I was reading the thread from most recent back and saw I wasn't the only one that thought this.


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## Fltwd57 (Apr 25, 2017)

Naaaaa, they'll never be as common as Bluebirds..


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## scrubbinrims (Apr 25, 2017)

There still is probably less than 15 frames out there IMO, maybe less.
Count'em up.
Chris


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## Freqman1 (Apr 25, 2017)

There was one that popped up last year at MLC as well--but extremely rough--and don't bother Ed he was neither the buyer or seller of this machine. V/r Shawn


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## Autocycleplane (Apr 25, 2017)

fordmike65 said:


> Don't know why or how....but the stars aligned just right this past weekend & I ended up with this 1936 Colson Commander in my yard.




I'll give you $100 for the seat


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## fordmike65 (Apr 25, 2017)

Autocycleplane said:


> I'll give you $100 for the seat



PM your address. It'll be in the mail tomorrow.


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## fordmike65 (Apr 25, 2017)

Autocycleplane said:


> I'll give you $100 for the seat






fordmike65 said:


> PM your address. It'll be in the mail tomorrow.




Wait...when did Schwine use a saddle this cool???


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## Autocycleplane (Apr 26, 2017)

fordmike65 said:


> Wait...when did Schwine use a saddle this cool???




I'll take the hornlite if you part it out.


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## Joe Buffardi (Apr 27, 2017)

Im very stoked that you finally found your grail! Cant wait to see it in person! Congrats man!


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## None (Apr 27, 2017)




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## John (Nov 21, 2018)




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## fordmike65 (Nov 21, 2018)

John said:


> View attachment 905728



What bars are those John?


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## John (Nov 21, 2018)

The ones that were on it when I got it.


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## Kickstand3 (Nov 23, 2018)

fordmike65 said:


> Yes sir. That's precisely why I quoted his post










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Pedals Past (Nov 23, 2018)

babyjesus said:


> Is the bike next to it (second one in) the same model but incomplete/without the head shroud piece and with added truss rods? It has the same incredible stem. Gotta love those stems they are amazing. I saw one on a twin cushion once - they are impressive.



So having owned more than one of these including both the bikes in the line up photo the one your referring to is a 1938 Commander the 37 having flat sheetmetal coverings tank style battery box where the 36 was more a head shroud. Both those bikes originally belonged to Don Vaughn and there is a great dispute he made the 38 frame and that there are very few 37 models and I have seen about eight 36 with owning the original wheat and red shown by Steve Castelli originally found by Bill Weakly. In 2006 a second wheat and red showed up at Copake swap meet .  I sold 















both the bikes I owned recently buying. ack the wheat and black original as a tribute to Don who passed away on my birthday.


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## Pedals Past (Nov 23, 2018)

The Castelli Wheat and Red bike had special bars as shown in the literature all these other bikes have steer horn bars Mick in Oregon owns the Castelli bike 

The two hardest bars to find are the 36 Commander and tge 36 Safety aluminum bars on my old safery owned by Marty now. They were very close in shape.


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## SKIDKINGSVBC (Nov 23, 2018)

Such an AWESOME BICYCLE !


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## Pedals Past (Nov 23, 2018)

Ron Summer has a restored one that Dave Stromberger painted pretty close to u as wel ad Mick


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## John (Dec 4, 2018)




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## fordmike65 (Dec 4, 2018)

John said:


> View attachment 913448
> View attachment 913451



Awesome. Thanks for posting @John


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## rustjunkie (Dec 4, 2018)




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## fordmike65 (Dec 4, 2018)

rustjunkie said:


> View attachment 913562


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## A.S.BOLTNUT (Dec 4, 2018)

Keeler pic. !


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## fordmike65 (Feb 15, 2019)

So I came across this pic posted yesterday. Needless to say I scrambled to contact the poster while trying not to mess myself. I didn't hear back for several tense hours...only to be told it was an old pic and bike was long gone. I'm still pretty excited he shared a pic of what looks to be a legit untouched original. Notice the Texas bars and Troxel Autocycle type saddle? Pretty cool! Looks like one can be built up a lil cheaper without having to use a Lobdell Horizontal spring saddle or impossible to find Commander bars.


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## Pedals Past (Feb 15, 2019)

the bars are cirrect not sure that exact seat but the five originals I know of all had long spring seats and only two had the j style bar  this bike i believe belonged to a guy near seattle and originally showed up at copake around 2005


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## Pedals Past (Feb 15, 2019)

The one i have now Don  Vaughn addeded the torrington teardrops and horz spring seat ....


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## OhioJones (Feb 27, 2019)

I need one of these taking up non existent space within my home. I would punch my boss right in the throat for a chance to own one of these puppies.


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## Scribble (Mar 8, 2019)

Beautiful frame design !


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## Krakatoa (Mar 11, 2019)

Be still my heart!


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## SKPC (Mar 12, 2019)

Skippity-Bumpity heart arythmia...….Wowza…..avert your eyes and try not to stare at these bikes...impossible..


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## SKIDKINGSVBC (Mar 12, 2019)

fordmike65 said:


> View attachment 615056
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Bic...son-Commander-/262354591206?campid=5335809022



That was an incredible show ..


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## OhioJones (Sep 27, 2019)

I will never grow tired of visiting this thread. <3


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## cyclingday (Sep 28, 2019)

fordmike65 said:


> So I came across this pic posted yesterday. Needless to say I scrambled to contact the poster while trying not to mess myself. I didn't hear back for several tense hours...only to be told it was an old pic and bike was long gone. I'm still pretty excited he shared a pic of what looks to be a legit untouched original. Notice the Texas bars and Troxel Autocycle type saddle? Pretty cool! Looks like one can be built up a lil cheaper without having to use a Lobdell Horizontal spring saddle or impossible to find Commander bars.
> 
> View attachment 949565




I’m not too sure, but I think this might be the same bike, after it got all cleaned up and collectorized.



This bike had a bullet hole through the rear fender, that was repaired by Don Vaughn.
The bike in the as found picture, looks like it has a hole in just about the same spot on the back fender.
Maybe?


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## Pedals Past (Aug 7, 2020)

scrubbinrims said:


> Scott thank for initiating this thread, but it will be a several weeks before my '36 Commander will be here and ready to post after detailing and upgrading chrome.
> 
> One bicycle I like to post is one from brwstrmgmt "basement dwellers" gallery page as it has the black/ivory color scheme I have only seen once (it is in the foreground
> View attachment 91144
> ...



I own it now I bought it from him took serious money belonged to Don Vaughn ..... for real serious cash i could be talked out of it ...... you be buying the girls 36 deluxe battery bar with it because they are mates you can pm me thanks


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## Pedals Past (Sep 5, 2020)

Pedals Past said:


> So having owned more than one of these including both the bikes in the line up photo the one your referring to is a 1938 Commander the 37 having flat sheetmetal coverings tank style battery box where the 36 was more a head shroud. Both those bikes originally belonged to Don Vaughn and there is a great dispute he made the 38 frame and that there are very few 37 models and I have seen about eight 36 with owning the original wheat and red shown by Steve Castelli originally found by Bill Weakly. In 2006 a second wheat and red showed up at Copake swap meet .  I sold [both the bikes I owned recently buying. ack the wheat and black original as a tribute to Don who passed away on my birthday.



So this bike is for sale however the 1936 ls plate will not be going with it . No i am not posting it in bijes for sale you have to contact me off line about it


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## Pedals Past (Sep 5, 2020)

Pedals Past said:


> So this bike is for sale however the 1936 ls plate will not be going with it . No i am not posting it in bijes for sale you have to contact me off line about it



It sold and will be picked up soon the girls battery bar bike will be available at jafco meet 9/26 your chance to pair up colsons deluxe bikes sorry guys


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## Pedals Past (Sep 5, 2020)

cyclingday said:


> Thanks Scott, for posting the pictures of the bike.
> 
> The Colson Commander is a very elegant design, that is notable in it's total lack of ornamentation that was so prevalent in it's day. No truss rods, no rack, and seat springs that disappear under the pan.
> 
> ...



Question is has anyone ever found one with that hidden spring seat every one i know of that has been added they had aerocycle style longspring seats even though the patent/literature showed the lobdell horz spring seat another bike the 37 rms cwc bikes all were found with lobdells. Although the patent for that seat may say 1936 the only bike i have ever seen found with it wss the 38 Shelby airflow so was it not released until 1938  unfotunately all the expert opinions may not truely know..... here we have another case of faux or fake bikes?  Its a case of customization upgrade or exactly what we are doing now playing with dresing undressing painting our own version ...... waiting for V/R chime in a soanking a scolding by the illustrious i know more tgan u debate .... fueling the fire stirring the pot .... cannt wait to see the facts


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## cyclingday (Sep 6, 2020)

Don’t know what’s been collectorized since the, 1930’s,40’s,’50’s,60’s,70’,80’s,90’s,’00’s,10’s,
20’s.
The catalog spec sheet tells the story now.


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## Pedals Past (Sep 6, 2020)

cyclingday said:


> Don’t know what’s been collectorized since the, 1930’s,40’s,’50’s,60’s,70’,80’s,90’s,’00’s,10’s,
> 20’s.
> The catalog spec sheet tells the story now.



I know what it says I supplied that literature to john when he did his book but i never seen one found with that Lobdell, my castelli bike had long spring when weakly sold it to steve.  i sold Don Vaughn the seat for this black one Sams bikes had long springs. the rms u had originlly had a long spring, so fid tge Bernie Bounce bikes Rosa had i saw pictures of it before it got restored the atkinsons blue bike did as well as my maroon .... the patent and catalog both showed it on both bikes hard to say if they got changed or if they came with them we all changed/upfraded them just like the pearsons tear drop pedals tomahawk goose necks or if they were just custom ordered know one will ever know the real story Don had torrington 15’s on his commander spec says 10’s another blunder this bs that thisbis correct thats not you put it on it wa wa wa is all for a bunch of chest pounding. I build them how i like them you own a couple now maybe u know maybe u dont when i sold them i disclosed it whether it was passed along thats on someone else's conscience but a major portion of the today players are hypocrits or just dont want to admit their stuff has been changed around I agree the commander is maybe #3 on my list because like u said it’s simple..... there also was a rack available for it Ron Summer owned the only one i ever saw ..... the legs were different ....... its all a mute debate .... the stuff is just old all of it even tge repoos old technology old styling just fascinating eye sparkling art .... even changed


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## fatbike (Sep 7, 2020)

It's not real.







babyjesus said:


> View attachment 92787
> 
> Isn't the second one in the one you mention from '39 with no flat tank?


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## scrubbinrims (Sep 7, 2020)

Of all the prewar bikes I’ve collected, I’ve gone through them all, cleaning to the bearings, except my 36 Colson Commander. 
Not sure the reason...but it remains in the state I bought it in from a Massachusetts auction, pulled down from the attic “unmolested.”. 
I’ve even found the rare checkerboard sidewall Royal Chain tires to replace the crusty originals, but haven’t swapped them.
Yes it does have the lobdell horizontal spring saddle, and my understanding the first edition is different than later years although I cannot recall why.
There’s no debate really, just such a small sample size and since the known bikes have changed hands among collectors, some skepticism.
Chris


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## Pedals Past (Sep 7, 2020)

scrubbinrims said:


> Of all the prewar bikes I’ve collected, I’ve gone through them all, cleaning to the bearings, except my 36 Colson Commander.
> Not sure the reason...but it remains in the state I bought it in from a Massachusetts auction, pulled down from the attic “unmolested.”.
> I’ve even found the rare checkerboard sidewall Royal Chain tires to replace the crusty originals, but haven’t swapped them.
> Yes it does have the lobdell horizontal spring saddle, and my understanding the first edition is different than later years although I cannot recall why.
> ...



I agree and dont doubt it respect whatever u want to do and like you have bikes i just like with the spider webs and dont move them even. 

But the lobdell seat might have been the second run of the 36 sold as a left over with rhe seat when it was finally produced. When did the 37 come out spring of 37 now didnt it have a lobdell? So like the troxel tool box the patent is 1936 but did it really appear on the silverkings before 38 and the wingbar? i got a 37 Hawthorne Silverking flocycle and girls L1 from a brother and sister in 1999 at museum and girls had the non tool box style and boys a toolbox, they said they got  them  for xmas 1937 i had photos of them from xmas 37 but i passed them to the new owner when i sold them.

Like cars i think some bikes models carried over until they were gone the next year,  even though the new model came out in October, what they just throw away that inventory? Its just  an interesting debate but time has passed we werent there and is all we can do is surmise because the literature is not photos but artist drawings.... specs are what they drew too but not necessarily what they had access too until the supplier worked out the product and kinks... so they get dressed by use collectors....

.The bars on that 36 changed also so thats a good reference to the assumption. the Castelli bike had j styled bars and long soring the Vaughn had steer horn and long soring the patent shows j bar style and lobdell seat. Which item was first and which bike first ... i guess maybe serial numbers help but frames were probabely made bulk and did they build them in serial number order so will we ever know .... dress them how you like

if you notice in the literature/patent there was a custom hib cap i never saw it Don and I tgrew it around for him to make them but everyone dooned on him about those Commander he got pissed  and said screw it the hobby can do without when he made colson racks i remember the conversation between him and Harry Ward by the front door of ML i thought Don was goung to deck him .... then Harry bought one of his racks from me for his Vogue ....

so do what you like buy what you want take off what you dont want but keep your critisim about what is done to ourselves is all i have ever said ..... they are all great examples and what we do to them more often than not just shows how much the guys love  these things or they all be  spinach cans by now!


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## Pedals Past (Sep 7, 2020)

not to stir the pot but maybe that was the case with the 37 Rms also seat and stem and the left over run if the cushioner was used on the 39-40 ms america and sold as an accessory in 39 by wards..... So why did Sears change it in 4o-41 because i assume the inventory was gone so they went to the new suspension product in the floating hub.... I once had a patent copy and a nos cushioner in box the box had a 1937 date,  i bought it from Mike Fitzsimmons .... i guess he made the box too

Now however i have preached that bellows stem is not correct everyone can relax i am stubborn but not ignorant and i bought teo from Scott if they werent  chrome they be on my bikes but i woyldnt be selling my cushioners i just trafe them back and forth and admire tgem like when i buy my gf a new swimsuit i still like her in the one she had when i drooled over her at the first look .........

I want and will do that with the badge on the girls 37 hawthorne i bought and when i sell it i give them both just like the stems you just have to  pay me for that second set of underwear for her ....

So Ken if you want the Colson script pedals i have and put back and forth on that Vaughn commander i havent listed them until you pu bike and i offer you them either way I would publicly disclose it if i
listed it with them on it rather than try and say i found it that way.

 So  2/3 of the hobby will think i am trying to retire on getting back what i had to give Joe Potts to get it. Like Don told me once I want to pass these bikes onto the next guy in the hobby who thinks like me so i used it in choosing Ken to get the bike .....


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## fatbike (Sep 7, 2020)

Pedals Past said:


> I agree and dont doubt it respect whatever u want to do and like you have bikes i just like with the spider webs and dont move them even.
> 
> But the lobdell seat might have been the second run of the 36 sold as a left over with rhe seat when it was finally produced. When did the 37 come out spring of 37 now didnt it have a lobdell? So like the troxel tool box the patent is 1936 but did it really appear on the silverkings before 38 and the wingbar? i got a 37 Hawthorne Silverking flocycle and girls L1 from a brother and sister in 1999 at museum and girls had the non tool box style and boys a toolbox, they said they got  them  for xmas 1937 i had photos of them from xmas 37 but i passed them to the new owner when i sold them.
> 
> ...



37 Commander had the 2nd gen Lobdel, the 37 Imperial used the 1st gen Lobdel. Left over parts from previous years and older deluxe models did carry down their parts. I should have sold my ultra rare 37 Commander to Lusher, I did sell my 37 Imperial to him; I had all three deluxe line up 1937 Colson’s with all long stems. Should have kept them.The Commander, Imperial, and the deluxe Double bar. None had factory head badge holes” waterfall nameplates, , and all were tall long wheelbase frames.


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## biker (Sep 8, 2020)

scrubbinrims said:


> Of all the prewar bikes I’ve collected, I’ve gone through them all, cleaning to the bearings, except my 36 Colson Commander.
> Not sure the reason...but it remains in the state I bought it in from a Massachusetts auction, pulled down from the attic “unmolested.”.
> I’ve even found the rare checkerboard sidewall Royal Chain tires to replace the crusty originals, but haven’t swapped them.
> Yes it does have the lobdell horizontal spring saddle, and my understanding the first edition is different than later years although I cannot recall why.
> ...



This one?


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## fordmike65 (Sep 8, 2020)

ronbug said:


> This one?
> 
> View attachment 1263053



No

This one. @scrubbinrims


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## biker (Sep 8, 2020)

fordmike65 said:


> No
> 
> This one. @scrubbinrims
> View attachment 1263058



Ah yes. Has it been that long already? April 2013. Time flies.






My first foray into antique prewar bikes was doing a search on the internet back in 2013 finding the Colson Commander thought it was a neat design and doing a search on it and imagine this auction coming up. I bid on it $2875 but had no idea what its true value was since I was a few week old novice.


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## oskisan (Sep 8, 2020)

Pedals Past said:


> So Ken if you want the Colson script pedals i have and put back and forth on that Vaughn commander i havent listed them until you pu bike and i offer you them either way I would publicly disclose it if i
> listed it with them on it rather than try and say i found it that way.
> 
> So  2/3 of the hobby will think i am trying to retire on getting back what i had to give Joe Potts to get it. Like Don told me once I want to pass these bikes onto the next guy in the hobby who thinks like me so i used it in choosing Ken to get the bike .....




Thanks for the kind words Jerry...  I'll treat it like it was my first born and I am thrilled to be the new caretaker of such an awesome bike.
-Ken


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## saladshooter (Nov 2, 2020)

My newly acquired contribution.


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## fordmike65 (Nov 2, 2020)

saladshooter said:


> My newly acquired contribution.View attachment 1295514
> 
> View attachment 1295515
> 
> ...


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## Mr. Monkeyarms (Nov 3, 2020)

Congrats Chad!! That thing is awesome!!


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## bikesnbuses (Nov 3, 2020)

Saladshooter >>>ONE of my few grails! PHENOMINAL!!!!


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## oskisan (Nov 3, 2020)

Super nice Chad!  Congrats man!!


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## mrg (Nov 3, 2020)

Great color!


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## fordmike65 (Nov 3, 2020)

The black & creme is by far my favorite! Seems there are less out there than the wheat/red. Wish I could find one to fit a poor boy from SoCal's budget one of these days...


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## srfndoc (Nov 3, 2020)

fordmike65 said:


> The black & creme is by far my favorite! Seems there are less out there than the wheat/red. Wish I could find one to fit a poor boy from SoCal's budget one of these days...




Agreed, black & creme look amazing.  What happened to this gem:


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## fordmike65 (Nov 3, 2020)

srfndoc said:


> Agreed, black & creme look amazing.  What happened to this gem:
> 
> View attachment 1295917



Yard art


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## mrg (Nov 3, 2020)

I wonder if there was a black/red version?


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## fordmike65 (Nov 3, 2020)

mrg said:


> I wonder if there was a black/red version?



That would be badass


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## fordmike65 (Nov 3, 2020)

mrg said:


> I wonder if there was a black/red version?



I wondered about this one


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## saladshooter (Nov 3, 2020)

mrg said:


> I wonder if there was a black/red version?










fordmike65 said:


> I wondered about this one
> 
> View attachment 1295922



Yeah, this one has me puzzled as to it's original color..


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## mrg (Nov 3, 2020)

Ouu, Silver/Red!, any OG examples?


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## srfndoc (Nov 3, 2020)

Did they ever offer the Commander as a non-Colson badged model (like my Delmar badged Simmons Hardware Co. Colson)?  If they did than any color combination is possible since off label bikes didn't always follow Colson color schemes.


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## fordmike65 (Nov 3, 2020)

srfndoc said:


> Did they ever offer the Commander as a non-Colson badged model (like my Delmar badged Simmons Hardware Co. Colson)?  If they did than any color combination is possible since off label bikes didn't always follow Colson color schemes.



Suppose it's possible, but I don't believe one has surfaced. That badge is pretty unique. Not sure Colson would have gone through the trouble of stamping one? Who knows...


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## Mr. Monkeyarms (Nov 3, 2020)

fordmike65 said:


> I wondered about this one
> 
> View attachment 1295922




Of the known examples of the Commander, this one makes me stop breathing.......    

Absolutely amazing!!!


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## srfndoc (Nov 3, 2020)

fordmike65 said:


> Suppose it's possible, but I don't believe one has surfaced. That badge is pretty unique. Not sure Colson would have gone through the trouble of stamping one? Who knows...



What about this one?  Looks like original paint.  Interesting to note that Colson move the rear mount further back on the Commander vs. their other bikes that used the came chainguard.


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## fordmike65 (Nov 3, 2020)

srfndoc said:


> What about this one?  Looks like original paint.  Interesting to note that Colson move the rear mount further back on the Commander vs. their other bikes that used the came chainguard.
> 
> View attachment 1295937



That does not appear to be original paint. Fork is wrong. 5/8" Lobdell post has been shimmed to fit.


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## srfndoc (Nov 3, 2020)

fordmike65 said:


> That does not appear to be original paint. Fork is wrong. 5/8" Lobdell post has been shimmed to fit.



See different color paint on inside of battery box.


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## Freqman1 (Apr 9, 2021)

So being an overworked and underpaid government employee I was going to try and low ball Scott @sm2501 on the Commander he listed because it appears to have a cut rear fender. Then I reviewed this thread. So did anyone else notice that it looks like they used two different versions of the rear fender on this bike? @fordmike65 @fatbike  V/r Shawn


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## Freqman1 (Apr 10, 2021)

saladshooter said:


> View attachment 1295923
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, this one has me puzzled as to it's original color..



That bike seems to have traces of black hanging on the guard and it doesn't look like the frame was ivory. The ad says "...offered in  three _standard_ color combinations..." implying that there are non-standard combinations. If you look back at post #75 it shows the '36 ad for the regular bikes and says you can get cream frames with the standard colors as an option. Wonder what's the possibility someone ordered a Commander with ivory frame and green head-now that would be awesome! V/r Shawn


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## fatbike (Apr 10, 2021)

Another example with the rear fender like most all the ones posted. That style fender is wide, mostly need to be cut to fit the guard in. Maybe correct fender for it but perhaps off something else. Who knows, these bikes are so old that anything can be possible. But of you notice the front chain guard tips, they appear I think different, perhaps two different guard types and maybe they are different widths. Maybe my eyes are playing tricks with the photos. Maybe rear stay is drilled in a different spot which positions the fender lower with a tighter to chain guard look. 

 There were a few paint options in the catalog, but I remember reading about paint schemes, Colson offered them in any version or reverse schemes, so odd paint work and colors doesn’t surprise me if original.


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## bikewhorder (Jun 9, 2021)

fordmike65 said:


> No
> 
> This one. @scrubbinrims
> View attachment 1263058



I remember stumbling upon that listing a week or so before the auction and totally freaking out.  I had never heard of a Colson Commander before but I was prepared to go big, like 2000 big ones. It turned out to be a pretty sad day when the bidding started over my max.


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## mrg (Jun 10, 2021)

Not one of Those Commander but my 38 Commander.


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## poolboy1 (Nov 21, 2021)

Anyone have one for sale?...LOL  I know


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## poolboy1 (Jan 9, 2022)

fatbike said:


> Another example with the rear fender like most all the ones posted. That style fender is wide, mostly need to be cut to fit the guard in. Maybe correct fender for it but perhaps off something else. Who knows, these bikes are so old that anything can be possible. But of you notice the front chain guard tips, they appear I think different, perhaps two different guard types and maybe they are different widths. Maybe my eyes are playing tricks with the photos. Maybe rear stay is drilled in a different spot which positions the fender lower with a tighter to chain guard look.
> 
> There were a few paint options in the catalog, but I remember reading about paint schemes, Colson offered them in any version or reverse schemes, so odd paint work and colors doesn’t surprise me if original.
> 
> View attachment 1388802



Is this Ron S ?


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## fatbike (Jan 10, 2022)

poolboy1 said:


> Is this Ron S ?



Yes


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## fatbike (Jan 10, 2022)

babyjesus said:


> View attachment 92787
> 
> Isn't the second one in the one you mention from '39 with no flat tank?



it's not real.


----------

