# 1945 Firestone Pilot



## Luckysbigadventure (Jun 27, 2021)

Hi there, I'm a newbie here. Just put this baby back on the road after years of sitting in my dad's basement. The rear hub by Morrow had old caked up grease that had to be torn down and cleaned and reassembled. After extensive homework I discerned the date code on the hub was April, 1945. I'm still working on the date code under the cranks. The bike was repainted (brushed on and wrong color) by the previous owner and I need to clean up the numbers before I can verify the date for the bike. Everything in the pics is how I got the bike back in the 80's. I'm pretty sure I still have the parts for the headlight in a box somewhere. I'll upload more pics later when I get a chance


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## Mercian (Jun 28, 2021)

Hi @Luckysbigadventure

Thanks for putting the frame number on your other post. (-:

H278882 is an Huffman produced Firestone Pilot from late 1945. I think the code on the Morrow you are reading is O4 (please could you check and confirm that? Thanks), which would be last quarter of 1945 (Oct-Dec)

Here is H277022 which is very similar to your bicycle.









						Help ID my new Huffy... | Classic Balloon Tire Bicycles 1933-1965
					

I picked up this bike today and is what I believe to be a Huffman made, Firestone branded Pilot in veeery nice shape. It does have some age spotting in the lighter maroon areas, but the wheels are what I dream about...and I haven't even touched them yet....black out Morrow rear hub and coaster...




					thecabe.com
				




Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Mercian (Jun 28, 2021)

PS, you might find a date stamp on the back of the fork bridge, maybe 95, 105 or 115, but this is right at the enf of Huffman doing this, so it may also be blank. If you can tell us whether there is one, and, if yes, what it is, that will help date it.

ATB, Adrian


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## Luckysbigadventure (Jun 28, 2021)

Luckysbigadventure said:


> Hi there, I'm a newbie here. Just put this baby back on the road after years of sitting in my dad's basement. The rear hub by Morrow had old caked up grease that had to be torn down and cleaned and reassembled. After extensive homework I discerned the date code on the hub was April, 1945. I'm still working on the date code under the cranks. The bike was repainted (brushed on and wrong color) by the previous owner and I need to clean up the numbers before I can verify the date for the bike. Everything in the pics is how I got the bike back in the 80's. I'm pretty sure I still have the parts for the headlight in a box somewhere. I'll upload more pics later when I get a chance View attachment 1437587View attachment 1437588View attachment 1437589View attachment 1437590View attachment 1437591View attachment 1437592View attachment 1437577View attachment 1437578View attachment 1437581






Mercian said:


> Hi @Luckysbigadventure
> 
> Thanks for putting the frame number on your other post. (-:
> 
> ...



Yes, O4. That is correct. I'll check for the other info as soon as I can. Thanks for your time, Jon


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## Luckysbigadventure (Jun 28, 2021)

Mercian said:


> PS, you might find a date stamp on the back of the fork bridge, maybe 95, 105 or 115, but this is right at the enf of Huffman doing this, so it may also be blank. If you can tell us whether there is one, and, if yes, what it is, that will help date it.
> 
> ATB, Adrian






Mercian said:


> PS, you might find a date stamp on the back of the fork bridge, maybe 95, 105 or 115, but this is right at the enf of Huffman doing this, so it may also be blank. If you can tell us whether there is one, and, if yes, what it is, that will help date it.
> 
> ATB, Adrian






Mercian said:


> Hi @Luckysbigadventure
> 
> Thanks for putting the frame number on your other post. (-:
> 
> ...





*Do you mean back here on the vertical tube that houses the fork? Forgive my ignore, I've worked on bikes for a long time, but don't know all of the names of everything (not a pro lol) I just want to be sure cause they put a lot of paint on and I don't want to scratch it off if that's not where you meant.*


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## Luckysbigadventure (Jun 28, 2021)

Luckysbigadventure said:


> Yes, O4. That is correct. I'll check for the other info as soon as I can. Thanks for your time, Jon



BTW I researched the date codes for Morrow hubs and it shows the letter O being for 1945 and the number 4 being for the month of April, so I know the age of the wheel, but not positive on the bike I don't have a link, but printed out the codes. Jeffrey Miller is the name on the bottom of the page.


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## Luckysbigadventure (Jun 28, 2021)

Mercian said:


> Hi @Luckysbigadventure
> 
> Thanks for putting the frame number on your other post. (-:
> 
> ...



The bike in the link is almost identical, and is the correct color for mine. I even downloaded the pics for future reference in case I ever want to restore it back to original. Thanks for that


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## Luckysbigadventure (Jun 28, 2021)

*It's a little hard to read, but the seat says LOBDELL MADE IN USA with a large V going through it. I'm assuming it's original equipment*


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## stezell (Jun 28, 2021)

Date stamp would be located in the area I circled. But it sounds like you might have to much paint to see it.

Sean


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## Luckysbigadventure (Jun 29, 2021)

stezell said:


> Date stamp would be located in the area I circled. But it sounds like you might have to much paint to see it.
> 
> Sean
> View attachment 1437976



Adrian was right, 9 5. Had to scratch off half a gallon of paint to get to it, but it's there. Whoever was using the punch tools that day must not have been eating their Wheaties cause all of the numbers are barely marked lol. Thanks so much for clarifying in the picture.


stezell said:


> Date stamp would be located in the area I circled. But it sounds like you might have to much paint to see it.
> 
> Sean
> View attachment 1437976



Adrian was right, 9 5. Had to scratch off half a gallon of paint to get to it, but it's there. Whoever was using

 the punch tools that day must not have been eating their Wheaties cause all of the numbers are barely marked lol. Thanks so much for clarifying in the picture.


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## Mercian (Jun 29, 2021)

Hi @Luckysbigadventure 

Scraping the paint off is certainly dedication (-: Thanks for sharing that. 95 means the fork was made in September 1945. This dating system existed from the late 1930's, but for some reason seems to have stopped in 1945, and so far I haven't seen one stamped later than 9 5 (though it's possible they exist), and this is one of the last dated like this.

Yes, the saddle is certainly the correct period for the bike, so probably original.

Dating the Morrow, I agree that several websites say that the number is the month, others say it is the quarter. Based on never seeing a number higher than 4, and a lot of other date corroboration when researching WW2 bicycles, I stand by my statement that O4 is Quarter 4 (Oct to Dec) 1945. This fits in with the fork date code quite well. But you're free to decide as you want, it's not, in the way of things, that important. Either way, it's a nice example of a mid to late 1945 Huffman.

Site saying that it's by the Quarter:









						Hub Dating -
					

New Departure Hubs                                                                                               Unlike the Morrow and Musselman…Read More




					vintageamericanbicycles.com
				




Site saying it's by the Month:





__





						Morrow Hub Dating
					





					www.strandcruisers.com
				




Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Luckysbigadventure (Jun 29, 2021)

Mercian said:


> Hi @Luckysbigadventure
> 
> Scraping the paint off is certainly dedication (-: Thanks for sharing that. 95 means the fork was made in September 1945. This dating system existed from the late 1930's, but for some reason seems to have stopped in 1945, and so far I haven't seen one stamped later than 9 5 (though it's possible they exist), and this is one of the last dated like this.
> 
> ...



Yes, dedicated to getting to the truth. Lol I didn't mind too much since it was a repaint and in an obscure spot. I figured that 9 5 was probably Sept 45. Thank you. As far as the rear hub, it's not as important to me as the bike itself. The Morrow hub page that you attached was the one that I went to for my info, but what you said makes sense. If I ever come across a higher month code or a very old person that used to work there and can tell me different, I'll let you know.  For now, I'll go with what you've given me. But at least now I know that the bike is a 9/45 build, and with that said, what with it being built during the war, I'm curious about the chrome rack on the back. I'm wondering if it was added later. The painted wheels and chrome rack always had me confused about if it was a wartime bike or not. Most of the racks I've seen are painted. It has a little rust on it now, but when I got the bike back in the 80s it was almost flawless. Almost as if someone had it rechromed. Also what should I look for in identifying the front hub if I can?  Thanks for the compliments, I'm certainly proud of her. Thanks for all of your help too. You've helped me solve a mystery of many years. Wish we had internet for stuff like this when I was growing up. Lol


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## Mercian (Jun 30, 2021)

Hi Again @Luckysbigadventure 

I'm afraid I can't help with the rack, but I would think it was an addition postwar. That's not to say it's a postwar rack (I really don't know), since these things can sit for sale in shops for years.

Statistically, the front hub is most likely to be a New Departure Model W, though other hubs were available. Wartime produced ones were 'Blacked out', black coated without chrome, but I'm not sure what type your bike has, I can't tell from the pictures.

You may still find other blacked out parts on your bike too.

ND-W hubs are either clearly marked, or not marked at all. 

Here's a Blackout one for sale at the moment for you to compare to, showing the markings. Photos from @justrust 









						Sold - War time New Departure 36 hole black out front hub | Archive (sold)
					

Up for sale is a prewar  New Departure  36 hole black out front hub




					thecabe.com
				




Christmas 1945 and for a couple of years after was a boom time for bicycle sales, Dad coming back from active service, not having seen his kids for a couple of years, and money in his pocket helped a lot. Also, there was still the idea that cycling was patriotic whilst the country transitioned to peace again.

Best Regards,

Adrian


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## Luckysbigadventure (Jul 2, 2021)

Mercian said:


> Hi Again @Luckysbigadventure
> 
> I'm afraid I can't help with the rack, but I would think it was an addition postwar. That's not to say it's a postwar rack (I really don't know), since these things can sit for sale in shops for years.
> 
> ...



Just a quick note, yes the front hub is a New Departure. Thanks


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