# Newbie's Excelsior: What have I got here?



## GetOffMyLawn (Jun 16, 2010)

So one day in 1992, my brother calls me and says he's got an old bike I might be interested in, "...but it's rough. Really rough". Head badge says Excelsior by Arnold Schwinn, tank has "Motobike" decals, and inside the tank was a Twin Cities road map that seems to be from the '30s. I disassembled it at the time, assessed the mechanical situation & stored it since then. It's finally time to do something with it, but I'm not certain exactly what it is. It *seems to be* a B-10...

I haven't figured out embedding photos yet, so here's the address for 15 of 'em:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/51174266@N05/4706672825/in/set-72157624165670231/


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## DonChristie (Jun 16, 2010)

Is it still in pieces? It sure has potential. What ya gonna do with it? Im interested...


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## markivpedalpusher (Jun 16, 2010)

Nice Bike...For Sale?? Looks like a Schwinn B10E. And there is just enough paint to clean it up and leave it original


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## GetOffMyLawn (Jun 16, 2010)

I took the pictures yesterday, so yes, it's still in pieces. My inclination is to ride it on occasion - but not before restoring it considerably. Make a chrome plater rich, and paint the frame myself. This one's blown its chance at "it's only original once", but I'm pretty sure I could do a righteous enough paint job. The only horrendous metalwork would be on the tank - my instinct is to solder a piece of 30 gauge mild steel along the entire bottom. At this point the only pieces missing seem to be a drop stand, handlebar, and Klaxon horn. And decals.


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## 18622hunter (Jun 16, 2010)

markivpedalpusher said:


> Nice Bike...For Sale?? Looks like a Schwinn B10E. And there is just enough paint to clean it up and leave it original




I agree, nice bike.  If you decide to leave it as is, just be gentle in cleaning the paint and it would be a great rider.  Search this site and you'll get a bunch of great info on cleaning and preserving the original patina.


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## GetOffMyLawn (Jun 16, 2010)

Well, it's a NEAT bike - I'll agree - but it's not nice yet ( the chain's nice; the head badge is pretty nice... ). Bear in mind that the photos are of the "clean" side of the frame, fork & tank - the right side is not a pretty sight. It doesn't so much possess paint, as a splotchy pigmented layer that's loosely stuck to the beard of orange metal growing from the base metal. I'm skeptical that cleaning the paint would bring favorable results.

All that said, I'm not an old bike collector, but at least I know it. As tempting as it is to do a "nice" paint job, I think I'll just overhaul the works, reassemble & ride it a bit. Maybe "once" isn't done yet. That way if I decide not to keep it, it'll still be in original condition for somebody who'll appreciate it more than I'm capable of. When I got the bike I bought a couple of books on classics that suggested to me that it was a B-10E, but I couldn't be sure - and in 1992, the internet - the way we think of it these days - wasn't around. I'm only here because I started cleaning the basement  There are about a dozen old bikes down there, so the Flickr page should start getting more crowded soon.

As for selling it, I'm not outright opposed to the idea, but that's not my purpose here - I'm much more interested in learning some stuff, and putting it back together[1]:
- Is there consensus that this is a B-10E?
- Was it sold under various brand names ( that Liberty Flyer above sure looks like a B-10E, and there's an Admiral out there somewhere too )?
- Is the Schwinn B-10E different from the Excelsior B-10E?
- Is there any way to distinguish model year ( other than crank arm, which is a '51 )? Was the B-10 offered in any years other than 1933 & 34? I know it's relatively useless info, but the serial number is 6 digits: 546xxx.

And I guess my biggest curiosity is: I know it's the first balloon tire bike, but just how "special" is it among vintage bikes? My tastes previously ran more toward Black Phantoms as the ultimate coolest Schwinn[2].

[1] - Call it progress; before posting, I was interested in repainting & chroming it before reassembly.
[2] - Having once enjoyed owning & riding a tankless/fenderless/chainguardless/mainstream-saddled cantilever Schwinn with a springer fork ( can you say "Phantom Envy"? ) has *nothing* to do with it. Swear to God...


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## markivpedalpusher (Jun 17, 2010)

I can understand how you feel about the "A" or chainguard side of the bike. That side is almost always worse but that's normal. You still have quite a bit of color and graphics on the bike believe it or not. I do think "it's only original once" applies to this bike. But I also understand an owner is entitled to do whatever he/she sees fit with their bike. I think the color is less common than the black and red ones that pop up fairly often. 

Overhaul the works, reassemble & ride it a bit is a GREAT idea! Especially if this is not you're favorite style of bike. Enjoy it for awhile and pass it along when you're ready. 

Schwinn did sell the b10e with multiple badges and they sold it to Chicago Cycle Supply a bicycle chain for example with different badges. An Excelsior badged b10e is one in the same. You're crank arm is definitely not orginal to the bike. 

The catalog says the b10e came out in 1933 with balloon tires. In 1933 it had chromium fenders. In 1934/35 it had stainless steel fenders. In 1935 there was also a b10ec that had painted enamel fenders to match. With that said Schwinn was known from time to time to use left over parts, mix and match. I don't see a b10e in the catalog for 1936. The records of the early serial numbers were burned in a fire. But at least the year of your bike can be narrowed down. And I'm sure someone on here will be able to date your bike. 

Is your bike special? Yes it is a mostly complete original survivor. Is it valuable? In the last 12 months b10e's have been going for 500-1,000 depending on condition and completeness. Please keep us posted with your progress. If you need any advice on how to bring the paint back a little more without damaging it please shoot me an e-mail I'd be happy to help. 

If you decide to sell please keep me in mind!

Thanks
Mark 
markivpedalpusher@gmail.com


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## seekamoto (Jun 17, 2010)

I looked over your photos, and everything looks Schwinn B10E except the crank as you pointed out. The fender braces are correct (only one rivet on the front braces and the little bridge across the rear braces).  But I have reservations about the photo of the frame. Could that photo be squished horizontally or stretched vertically? The reason I ask is the opening between the top bars at the seat tube looks too wide.

I have four B10E frames (B9 is the same frame from what I know) all have five digit (one letter and four numbers) serial numbers, and are all confirmed to be from 1935 by Wes Pinchot. (Bulldog #C4404 1935, Admiral #F8133 1935, Blueboy #F6821 1935, and Planes/Trains #H7791 1935.) 
Here are some photos that show how the tank fits the bars where they meet the seat tube, and one that shows the bridge between the seat stays.

I believe 1935 was the last year for B10E, so maybe the bar opening was wider on the earlier models. How does the tank fit the opening?


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## seekamoto (Jun 17, 2010)

woops, here's that other photo of the bridge between the seat stays.
Rich


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## GetOffMyLawn (Jun 17, 2010)

Wow. Thanks for all the info - exactly the sort of flavor I was looking for.
The fenders certainly aren't stainless, unless there was a flaky-rusty alloy of stainless in use at the time. I also notice that the front fender of a lot of B-10s is flared, where mine is not, but more like in the '33 Schwinn catalog.
I'm acquainted with using polishing compound, so I spent a little quality time with the fork last night, and it came out "far less worse" than I expected. Now I'm off to get a bag of 0000 for the chrome bits, and tonight it's the frame's turn. I'm carefully measuring the dimensions of the accent points & pinstriping as I go - the pointy end of the fork pinstripe extends a full inch past the end of the triangle!
In a turn of good fortune, I confirmed that I've got a decent set of the proper pedals on another bike, so they'll be migrating a few hooks over...

Give me a week, and I'll have a rider to show off. Thanks again to all who responded!


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## Aeropsycho (Jun 17, 2010)

Nice Find, from the past!

If the serial number does Not have a letter in front of it it is before 1935.

I had the same bike in the 1980s but sold it, It too had the same added on second tube in the frame it had a 1932 code date morrow hub and a serial number without a letter

I have one now again in my garage I will check the serial number this week and add it here.

Pressed together/not welded rear dropouts that dates it before 1935!!!

The right pedal could be the ones it had as well I have seen a original B-10-E with thous pedals.

The front rim you have for it is newer rim might be the same but you need the older new departure hub the rear rim is correct it should have washers inside under the spoke nipples first balloon type clincher rims very thin steel!!!

The seat is the exact seat that comes with the bike!

I would just clean it up and ride it that color paint I have never seen on a B-10-E VERY RARE!!!


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## REC (Jun 20, 2010)

That is going to make a nice rider. I found this thread due to the weather holding me inside. 

I have two B10s that were sold to me as a '33 & a '34. Serial numbers are: (33) 13870 and (34) 504223. 

The only photos I have of them so far are the ones from which I bought the bikes. They're both pretty solid, with the '33 having been "re-done" by the previous owner. It is badged as a Packard, and has the Motobike decals on the tank. There were some things I noticed when I got it that were not correct based on photos and descriptions I've seen and read, and slowly I am trying to get the right pieces for it. I'm missing the front light for sure, but am in NO hurry to find one. (They'll both need one to be correct and complete - which most likely will not occur in my lifetime!) The '34, which is badged as "The World", I will be re-doing in the future, and it is presently residing in its' box. I like these frames, and think the cool factor is somewhere in the Ozone. 

The '33:




The '34:




The other side of the equation is that I ALSO like Cycle-Trucks, and they seem to get priority around here. They are followed by later ballooners middleweights, lightweights, and then those pesky little 20" things that came along in the '60s. Too many little projects sitting around.  

REC


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## MVHPV (Jul 12, 2010)

Hello, I hope I'm not one-too-many,

My search for Excelsior info landed me here. My 87 YO father has, what appears to be, a 1934 also. Except for the chainring, it's nearly identical to REC's '34 (pictured above). The serial is 28XXX, has "AS 34" cast in the crank and has stainless steel fenders. Unfortunately, it's missing the handle bars, stem, and one pedal. I see a lot of these without tanks and chain guards - were ALL factory equipt as such, or were any available without those two items? 

Dad also has an Arnold ACE frame & fork, bars and crank (w/serial W52961), and 2 or 3 other 40's - 50's misc frames and parts I have yet to fully assess and ID. He also has an early, (I'm guessing late 30's) springer which is an unrestored rider. -kenny-


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## Aeropsycho (Jul 13, 2010)

*Sweet!*

Well now were talkin!... Slap some pictures up on here!

The earlier 1933-34 Motorbike Type  Schwinns usually didn't have a chain  guard sometimes a hockey stick style but this was back when men were  MEN... and when you got caught in the chain,
you didn't cry... Right Strings and spokes?

Some had tanks some didn't the stainless fenders means a deluxe bike so  it might of had a tank look for strap marks on the top tube.

Keep going! :eek:


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## MVHPV (Aug 2, 2010)

Here's mine.  Flipping through some early Schwinn ads, I found a picture of a 1933 B9.  Apparently, the B9 had no tool/tank or lights - a 'plain Jane' B10 maybe? I looked, but saw no evidence of tank stramps, and I have no lights.  My serial # is also much closer to REC's '33 than his '34.


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## SirMike1983 (Aug 2, 2010)

If I had the cash a B10 would be my next project.


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## ratfink1962 (Dec 5, 2011)

REC said:


> That is going to make a nice rider. I found this thread due to the weather holding me inside.
> 
> I have two B10s that were sold to me as a '33 & a '34. Serial numbers are: (33) 13870 and (34) 504223.
> 
> ...




Here's a few pics of my Admiral...










I found the serial #21145 under the bottom bracket, based on what you said above... mine would fall somewhere between 1933 and 1934 right?

I know mine has a bunch of wrong parts, I have been trying to locate the parts I need so I can get started on it.

thanks!


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