# Raleigh 3 speed help



## stezell (Nov 26, 2016)

Just picked up this Raleigh today and not up on English road bikes. Tried to see if I could find the year on the rear hub and I'm sure the handlebars are wrong. So any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Sean


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## bulldog1935 (Nov 26, 2016)

can you find a serial number? 

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_raleigh_serials.html

check seat lug and bottom bracket shell


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## stezell (Nov 26, 2016)

bulldog1935 said:


> can you find a serial number?
> 
> http://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_raleigh_serials.html
> 
> check seat lug and bottom bracket shell



Thanks bulldog1935, will do. I'll have to wait until tomorrow.  Sean


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## Lawrence Ruskin (Nov 27, 2016)

looks like a Rudge head badge


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## bulldog1935 (Nov 27, 2016)

it absolutely is, Rudge Whitworth.  - good eye.  The fenders have the Raleigh heron.


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## SirMike1983 (Nov 27, 2016)

Looks late 1940s to me, Raleigh-made Rudge seems right.  That would be a relatively early Raleigh-made Rudge after they merged those brands. Some parts have been changed.


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## sam (Nov 27, 2016)

Sturmey archer hubs are date coded.


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## stezell (Nov 27, 2016)

That's why I enclosed the pic of the Rudge decal. I wasn't sure if it was put on by someone or it was original, since the Raleigh was on it as well. I didn't get to the bike serial number today, sorry.


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## SirMike1983 (Nov 27, 2016)

Raleigh and Rudge merged in the early 1940s. Rudge was produced in Nottingham alongside Raleigh after that, with Rudge being a premium bike line. There was indeed a Rudge fender decal as well, with the red hand of Ulster on it, and these went on the Rudge bikes. I'm inclined to say the fenders might be Raleigh replacements rather than original, but there is always the chance they had Raleigh fenders on hand in these years and used those on this particular bike. As soon as you think you know a rule for sure with these bikes, an exception suddenly appears.


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## stezell (Nov 28, 2016)

Well here's what I got for the serial # on the seat lug and I'll have to wait another day when it's not raining to clean the rear hub for the year stamp. Looks like C1826AJ


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## stezell (Nov 28, 2016)

bulldog1935 said:


> can you find a serial number?
> 
> http://www.kurtkaminer.com/TH_raleigh_serials.html
> 
> check seat lug and bottom bracket shell



I tried the link you sent to me bulldog1935 and it's kind of vague, but I understand being so many bikes built.


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## bulldog1935 (Nov 28, 2016)

and I doubt if Rudge would be represented in any of the Raleigh date windows.

but if you find your s/n, post it anyway - maybe we can learn something....


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## stezell (Nov 28, 2016)

[QUOTE="bulldog1935, pserial 54050, member: 49Thank and I doubt if Rudge would be represented in any of the Raleigh date windows.

but if you find your s/n, post it anyway - maybe we can learn something....[/QUOTE]
I posted a pic of the serial # I took today. Thank you, Sean


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## bulldog1935 (Nov 28, 2016)

from the BSA bike museum, Raleigh bought Rudge in 1943, and not surprising those numbers don't match earlier sequential serial nos.  
http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/frame-number-bicycle-dating-guide/ 

I've been through every google link I can find and Kurt Kaminer's Raleigh system, and it doesn't match any of them.  

Your best bet at dating it will be the SA date code on the hub


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## SirMike1983 (Nov 28, 2016)

I stopped bothering with frame serials. I go off the decals, lugs, and equipment.


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## stezell (Nov 28, 2016)

bulldog1935 said:


> from the BSA bike museum, Raleigh bought Rudge in 1943, and not surprising those numbers don't match earlier sequential serial nos.
> http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/frame-number-bicycle-dating-guide/
> 
> I've been through every google link I can find and Kurt Kaminer's Raleigh system, and it doesn't match any of them.
> ...




I sure do appreciate your help bulldog and I'll let you know what the date code on the rear hub is when I clean it up. Thank you, Sean


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## bulldog1935 (Nov 28, 2016)

we're looking forward to it Sean. 
Regards, 
Ron Mc


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## stezell (Nov 29, 2016)

Well guys I cleaned the rear hub and all that's left is the usual Sturmey Archer AW patent and nothing else, believe me I went around several times with readers and magnifying glass.  I got a few Reg numbers 831383 from front and rear brake calipers, then the rear wheel is 832297. That's all I can find for now. Thanks, Sean


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## wrongway (Nov 29, 2016)

Somewhere I read that the pre-war hubs weren't dated.


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## wrongway (Nov 29, 2016)

Oh, great catch, Stezell! A full chain case bike is on my bucket list! Someday.....


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## stezell (Nov 30, 2016)

I hate to do it, but I'm going to try and sell this bike. I'm in to cruiser bikes and picked this one up with a few. I'm not sure about the value of it and I know the front wheel is a Schwinn S5. I know I can't do this bike justice due to the fact I don't know anything about English bikes.  So if you guys could give me an idea of the value I would really appreciate it. I'm going to check with the previous owner to see if I can track down the front wheel, slim chance but you never know. Thank you, Sean


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## SirMike1983 (Nov 30, 2016)

stezell said:


> Well guys I cleaned the rear hub and all that's left is the usual Sturmey Archer AW patent and nothing else, believe me I went around several times with readers and magnifying glass.  I got a few Reg numbers 831383 from front and rear brake calipers, then the rear wheel is 832297. That's all I can find for now. Thanks, Sean




That is consistent with 1940s era. Some of the late pre-war and very early post-war hubs did not have date codes on them. My view is that it is a very early post-war bike, say 1946-48 era.


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## stezell (Nov 30, 2016)

Thanks SirMike I appreciate the info. I know on the down tube it says Rudge, other than that and the Reg #'s, serial number that's all I can find. Do you have an idea of what it's worth in the condition it is? There is no damage, missing front wheel, and I think the T8 pedals are incorrect. Just trying to get an idea. Thanks, Sean


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## wrongway (Dec 1, 2016)

stezell said:


> I hate to do it, but I'm going to try and sell this bike. I'm in to cruiser bikes and picked this one up with a few. I'm not sure about the value of it and I know the front wheel is a Schwinn S5. I know I can't do this bike justice due to the fact I don't know anything about English bikes.  So if you guys could give me an idea of the value I would really appreciate it. I'm going to check with the previous owner to see if I can track down the front wheel, slim chance but you never know. Thank you, Sean



Darn.....I wish I had seen this before I bought your other one. I've always wanted one of these. lol


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## blackhawknj (Jan 29, 2017)

I suspect that after the War there was a lot of  using up parts on hand to assemble bikes.


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## bulldog1935 (Jan 30, 2017)

certainly no bike parts were made during the war, unless they were going to paratroopers, but after the war with the economy ramping up, England wanted to manufacture and export everything they possibly could, and bikes were at the top.

During the war, they also exported everything they possibly could sell made from existing prewar parts.
I have many examples of fly reels sold here during the war that they couldn't get at home.
http://bulldog1935.u.yuku.com/



   Many of these have internal mods to extend existing stores of parts from critical materials 



Manufacturing went in every direction to support the war.  The maker who built these reel examples during the war (my specific collecting bent) was making aircraft control system components, including the firing trigger mechanisms for Hurricanes and Spitfires.

Also very typically, prewar models were extended in immediate postwar production until new models could be designed and tooling revised.  I also have 1947 examples of prewar designs that only lasted a year or so postwar.


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