# what have I got



## legend (Feb 27, 2020)

Hi,
I am new here and have an old bike in the basement. I think it is a Black Phantom as one can see the ghost image on the side of the chain guard. How do I identify what the year of manufacture or whatever I can? I took a sloppy pic just a minute ago of the back of the seat...did black phantoms have concho stuff like that on the seat? I will get better images if you could tell me what to take pictures of.
 I can take it out to the sun for pics tomorrow...just got my first cell phone and learning how to take pictures
Thank You
William


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## legend (Feb 27, 2020)

did they use rivets on the fenders?


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## jacob9795 (Feb 27, 2020)

There will be a serial number under the bike or on the left side rear of the frame where the axle is, there are websites that will decode the Schwinn serial number. Yes, they had rivets


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## John G04 (Feb 27, 2020)

A picture from the side including the whole bike would be a good start. Welcome to the cabe!


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## legend (Feb 27, 2020)

I hope this is a better pic


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## 1motime (Feb 27, 2020)

Getting better.......


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## legend (Feb 27, 2020)

here is try at a side shot
How would you go about selling this on here? in parts? should I clean it?
I have a few more parts but no tank..
stuff like a front fender with light ...other stuff I will check


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## 1motime (Feb 27, 2020)

That is a nice bike!  Clean and lube it up.  Take it for a spin.  Then find the parts.  Everything you need is out there.  Take it slow and buy smart.  Front caliper brake is a nice part!


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## legend (Feb 27, 2020)

again, I am no computer wizzes so please pardon how I am doing this in pieces
Thank You for the help
William


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## legend (Feb 27, 2020)

what is a Bendix?


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## jacob9795 (Feb 27, 2020)

I bet  it’s a 1950


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## 1motime (Feb 27, 2020)

legend said:


> what is a Bendix?
> View attachment 1147199



Shifter for the rear hub


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## John G04 (Feb 27, 2020)

Looks like your bike has a front brake, and a bendix 2 speed. Bendix is a brand


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## legend (Feb 27, 2020)

one more side shot...is there something specific I photo or collect to identify? should I sell it in parts or whole?
Thanks for your advice


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## John G04 (Feb 27, 2020)

Those pics are pretty good, if you want a exact year there should be a serial number underneath the crank housing (bottom of frame)I’d try and sell it whole before parting, someone could build a nice bike out if that


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## rustjunkie (Feb 27, 2020)

valuable seat there


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## legend (Feb 27, 2020)

well is it safe assume it IS a Black Phantom?


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## Freqman1 (Feb 27, 2020)

legend said:


> well is it safe assume it IS a Black Phantom?



Yes it is a Black Phantom and I have a feeling it may be a '50 as well. Like Jacob said check for the serial which will give us the year. Just curious is there a reflector on the back? To sell on the forum you must list in the for sale section with a price, pics, and location. Determing the price should not be too hard as there have been a lot of Phantoms sold in all sorts of condition. V/r Shawn


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## legend (Feb 27, 2020)

I just looked for the serial number on the bottom of the bike..where the crank goes through...no number.
where else should I look?
Thank You for your help


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## Freqman1 (Feb 27, 2020)

legend said:


> I just looked for the serial number on the bottom of the bike..where the crank goes through...no number.
> where else should I look?
> Thank You for your help



At the rear axle on the left side on the frame--this is called the dropout. Reflector? V/r Shawn


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## legend (Feb 27, 2020)

Freqman1 said:


> Yes it is a Black Phantom and I have a feeling it may be a '50 as well. Like Jacob said check for the serial which will give us the year. Just curious is there a reflector on the back? To sell on the forum you must list in the for sale section with a price, pics, and location. Determing the price should not be too hard as there have been a lot of Phantoms sold in all sorts of condition. V/r Shawn



Thank you
I will only sell in that section..I am wanting to do this correctly. 
Your help is greatly appreciated
I tried finding the number on the bottom of the crank pass through but no number...how much difference does the year make in the price?


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## legend (Feb 27, 2020)

Freqman1 said:


> At the rear axle on the left side on the frame--this is called the dropout. Reflector? V/r Shawn



I might have a reflector I will do back down and check just now


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## Freqman1 (Feb 27, 2020)

legend said:


> I might have a reflector I will do back down and check just now



The year will not make a lot of difference on this bike. Mostly just curious. V/r Shawn


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## legend (Feb 27, 2020)

there is no number on the head swivel or the down tubes...I will continue to search
Yes it has two holes drilled in the fender for a reflector but it is gone..it might be in the garage ..I will check in the morning


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## legend (Feb 27, 2020)

We thank all of you for your help and will post more to this thread on this bike..we want to sell but will learn first
William


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## GTs58 (Feb 27, 2020)

If the serial number isn't under the crank it will be on the drop out above the left rear axle nut.


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## vincev (Feb 27, 2020)

Im sending you a message.


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## legend (Feb 27, 2020)

ok! got the number just a sec for the pic


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## legend (Feb 27, 2020)

the number was on the left side drop out....J5733
I do not know what this means please enlighten me
Thanks again


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## GTs58 (Feb 27, 2020)

legend said:


> the number was on the left side drop out....J5733
> I do not know what this means please enlighten me
> Thanks again
> View attachment 1147288





That serial number was stamped in April 1953, so the bike was built sometime shortly after and would be a 1953 model.


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## jacob9795 (Feb 27, 2020)

I didn’t see the rim brake. Are those S2 hoops?


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## legend (Feb 27, 2020)

Jacob,
I do not know what s2 hoops are or how to identify them


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## Freqman1 (Feb 28, 2020)

legend said:


> Jacob,
> I do not know what s2 hoops are or how to identify them



Look like this--have a set of 'railroad tracks' and say "SCHWINN TUBULAR S2". V/r Shawn


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## KingSized HD (Feb 28, 2020)

1motime said:


> That is a nice bike!  Clean and lube it up.




I’d say be very careful about cleaning it If you don’t know how to do it like a collector would, you may end up damaging the paint finish or chrome instead. Or breaking a rusted part.
If you’re planning on selling it just get the surface dust off with CLEAN rags or old tshirts, put it in good light outside and take pictures of it for your sale post from all angles. Avoid using chemicals and especially steel wool until you have had experience cleaning something less valuable. 
Folks here know what condition they’re looking at if you include some closeup pics of rusty areas along with your 5 ft sale shots.


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## legend (Feb 28, 2020)

Thanks Motime,
will do just wipe off with no chems or rough stuff and good pics...my pics have gotten better cause my wife took over! lol
I am going out to the garage to gather the other parts..not sure what is there


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## legend (Feb 28, 2020)

ok. if your still in for helping...here is the box of stuff from the smithy shop..
Did these come with a friction tire genset? I think all this stuff except for the headlight shroud is add on from over the years.


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## legend (Feb 28, 2020)

I have search the site for 2spd and handbrake and found nothing....is that a rare combination?
Thank You for your help


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## legend (Feb 28, 2020)

How do I know how many speeds the Bendix is without riding the bike, possible?


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## legend (Feb 28, 2020)

More pics duck bill fenders, s2 rims, front fender


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## 1motime (Feb 28, 2020)

Looks like you are building a complete bike right here!  Keep digging for the reflector!


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## legend (Feb 28, 2020)

I have a smith Warner speedometer with odometer..do you know if that is original?
So far I am missing the tail light, rear reflector, tank, etc
I am curious about the gear shift AND hand brake comb..it seems rare and found nothing from a search on this site..
Thank You for your help Motime


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## legend (Feb 28, 2020)

jacob9795 said:


> I didn’t see the rim brake. Are those S2 hoops?



yes they are


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## Rambler (Feb 28, 2020)

legend said:


> I have a smith Warner speedometer with odometer..do you know if that is original?
> So far I am missing the tail light, rear reflector, tank, etc
> I am curious about the gear shift AND hand brake comb..it seems rare and found nothing from a search on this site..
> Thank You for your help Motime




Speedometer/Odometer is "Stewart Warner" not "Smith Warner", it's a period correct accessory. Black Phantoms did not come equipped from the factory with them.
The Bendix 2-speed hub with shift lever was a pay extra option, so was the front caliper brakes. Both are not necessarily "RARE" but they are not necessarily common either. They do add to the value of your bike over what a base model would be worth. Nice bike you have there.


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## legend (Feb 28, 2020)

Rambler said:


> Speedometer/Odometer is "Stewart Warner" not "Smith Warner", it's a period correct accessory. Black Phantoms did not come equipped from the factory with them.
> The Bendix 2-speed hub with shift lever was a pay extra option, so was the front caliper brakes. Both are not necessarily "RARE" but they are not necessarily common either. They do add to the value of your bike over what a base model would be worth. Nice bike you have there.



Thank You, determining price is kinda difficult for me...not knowing the standards for condition, availability, etc...what is hot and what is not.
would cleaning it increase the price?


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## John G04 (Feb 28, 2020)

legend said:


> Thank You, determining price is kinda difficult for me...not knowing the standards for condition, availability, etc...what is hot and what is not.
> would cleaning it increase the price?




if you’re gonna sell it i’d just put the front fender on and the light cover and sell it. It’s a good project for sure!


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## Freqman1 (Feb 28, 2020)

Like the others said the Bendix 2 speed and rim brakes were added to the bike. I've bought these 2 speed set-ups for $100 or less. The rim brakes while not common are not particulalry valuable because they are not that popular. They look 'tacked' on to me and clutter up the front end. Again, do some searches on the site and you should get a feel for what this should go for. I wouldn't clean or service anythgin as that is time wasted on a sale like this. V/r Shawn


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## Rambler (Feb 28, 2020)

legend said:


> Thank You, determining price is kinda difficult for me...not knowing the standards for condition, availability, etc...what is hot and what is not.
> would cleaning it increase the price?




I would advise you to reassemble the bike as much as possible. As for cleaning, maybe very mild soap/water to remove some of the dust, wiping it down with damp soft rags, don't drown it with a garden hose. I would not advise you do much more unless you feel confidant in what you are doing. Probably better to leave that up to the next person if all you intend to do is sell it.

Regarding price, take your time researching unless you are desperate for the money and need to sell quickly. Search the sold section of the CABE and EBAY and past sales at Copake Auction house to determine a fair value. I would not want to make up a figure and toss that at you because it has been long time since I sold any Black Phantom parts so I am not sure what the going rate is. I do know I sold a complete Schwinn S-2 wheel with Bendix 2-speed hub and shift lever assembly a couple years ago and got $25 so not terribly valuable. I know the caliper brake assembly on the front with brake lever is probably worth around $100 but even there I am not absolutely sure of the current value. Do your research before you list it.


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## legend (Feb 28, 2020)

legend said:


> yes they are
> View attachment 1147408



here are the rim brakes Jacob
Thank You for the help


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## legend (Feb 28, 2020)

legend said:


> I hope this is a better picView attachment 1147185



here is the back of the saddle


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## Wanted33 (Feb 28, 2020)

legend, these folks that have given you advise has forgotten more about old bikes than I'll ever know. So, I won't pretend to give you any advise. But, I will say that you've got a great bike there. I do know that parting a bike out could give you more money sometimes, but IMHO a nice bike like that shouldn't be parted out unless the owner is starving. It's just too nice of a bike to chop it up. As someone said give it a clean up, grease it up, and ride that old boy. You'll be surprised at how much fun riding an old like that will bring you. Now of course this is just my opinions, and we know the old saying abut opinions. It is your bike, and your choice sir.


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## Wanted33 (Feb 28, 2020)

legend said:


> ok. if your still in for helping...here is the box of stuff from the smithy shop..
> Did these come with a friction tire genset? I think all this stuff except for the headlight shroud is add on from over the years.
> View attachment 1147367




You are correct, I feel the light cover is the only thing original to the bike. I'm gonna guess by the design the rear rack was an add on with the one in the full picture of the bike being the original rack, but there again as I said, at my point in old bike collecting (near a newbi) I'm more wrong than right.


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## spoker (Feb 28, 2020)

id buy the seat!


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## legend (Feb 28, 2020)

Wanted33 said:


> You are correct, I feel the light cover is the only thing original to the bike. I'm gonna guess by the design the rear rack was an add on with the one in the full picture of the bike being the original rack, but there again as I said, at my point in old bike collecting (near a newbi) I'm more wrong than right.



Understood..the assc rack has a mark from Germany and I was advised that the speedo is period correct but not factory


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## legend (Feb 28, 2020)

Wanted33 said:


> legend, these folks that have given you advise has forgotten more about old bikes than I'll ever know. So, I won't pretend to give you any advise. But, I will say that you've got a great bike there. I do know that parting a bike out could give you more money sometimes, but IMHO a nice bike like that shouldn't be parted out unless the owner is starving. It's just too nice of a bike to chop it up. As someone said give it a clean up, grease it up, and ride that old boy. You'll be surprised at how much fun riding an old like that will bring you. Now of course this is just my opinions, and we know the old saying abut opinions. It is your bike, and your choice sir.



I am agreeing with you wanted...but I won't ride, I will sell as soon as I can figure the price..I will keep it together
You have given me good advice
Thank You
I will do my best to sell to someone that intends to restore and ride not part out.
I would love it to be someone younger than me and that is not difficult to do.


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## legend (Feb 29, 2020)

Ok neighbors,
The Phantom is posted for sale.
Thank You one and all for your very kind help and sharing of your knowledge and history.
we will see what happens, Good Health to you all.


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## phantom (Jan 29, 2021)

Just came across this post....Did the bike ever sell or get parted out ?


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## ricobike (Jan 29, 2021)

phantom said:


> Just came across this post....Did the bike ever sell or get parted out ?








I don't think we'll ever know.


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## Goldenrod (Jan 30, 2021)

Sell it whole.  Those rim brakes should be valuable to Whizzer guys who need them to stop. a motorized bike.


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## Rivnut (Jan 31, 2021)

I went to Legend's home page and found his more recent posts. He sold the Phantom in one day for $1,000.


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