# Schwinn Varsity tourist question



## bikecrazy (Oct 23, 2022)

I picked up this barn find tourist with bar tape on the upright handlebars. It appears to have been there since new. Was this a factory install or a bike shop mod? Also, did all tourist Varsity’s have fenders. thanks!


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## juvela (Oct 23, 2022)

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bar wrap not OEM

the downtube controls show it to be a fairly early one


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## bikecrazy (Oct 23, 2022)

Thanks! Did all  Varsity tourists have fenders?


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## GTs58 (Oct 23, 2022)

It has rat traps and tourist levers. Frankvarschween. It's all mixed up.


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## bikecrazy (Oct 23, 2022)

Please be specific


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## Oilit (Oct 23, 2022)

The Tourist versions always had fenders as far as I know, and GTs58 is pointing out the rat traps because the Tourist Varsities usually had the bow pedals. This one may be a racing Varsity with tourist bars.


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## GTs58 (Oct 23, 2022)

bikecrazy said:


> Please be specific




Taking a quick glimps of the bike one would think that was a Tourist model. It's a 1964-66 model. After a closer look I think it started out as a sport model. Stem looks similar to the 1961 only stem that Schwinn used randomly in 61. Bars I can't tell if period correct. Brake levers look like mid 62 and earlier issue. A Tourist has bow pedals and a sport has rat traps. Since the Tourist equipment is not period correct, the fenders are missing and pedals rat traps, I'd assume that started out as a Sport model. 

*1965 Tourist.*


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## juvela (Oct 23, 2022)

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is the bag support an official Schwinn Approved item?



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the wrapped bar reminds me of a bike i had as a teenager

about age twelve or thirteen parents gave me a new english three-speed as a gift

as a fashion conscious teenager noticed that the sporty bikes had wrapped bars so got some Hunt Wilde tape and wrapped the machine's tourist bar

also removed the machine's mudguards to make it "racier"


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## bikecrazy (Oct 23, 2022)

Thanks everyone for your help. I paid 25$ Because of the Coppertone paint. It should clean up well. I think it will remain a homemade tourist for my riding cumfort.


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## Arnold Ziffel (Oct 24, 2022)

Juvela and GTs58  can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know that there is any definitive way to identify whether said Varsity began life as a tourist model or the typical racing handlebar model.   The serial number does not tell anything.    Often Schwinn dealers would make changes to existing floor stock bicycles to make sales to customers.     Often you will find that over the years, owners find that they might prefer rat trap pedals and doing without fenders.    There is no way to know for sure what configuration that it was with the original purchaser.    That color was available in the Varsity and the tourist Varsity.   As far as I am aware, there were no differences in the decal placement or markings between the Varsity and the tourist Varsity.   Even the  awful, awfully inconvenient downtube shifter levers were typical in 1966 and earlier.       Downtube shifters are terrible on an upright tourist style bicycle in my opinion,  but even the early Collegiates (1964-1966)  have  a poorly located shifter.

My eyes aren't that great, but the tourist brake levers on the coppertone bike in post #1 appear to be exactly like the 1964-1965 Weinmann tourist brake levers.   I am not seeing the difference that makes GTs58 think that they are mid '62 and earlier.
Certainly that creative bar tape wrap from some prior owner is backyard custom and never was seen on factory tourist bars.
.......Whatever it originated as, really does not matter.  Now most all museum collector types will want every component to be year-date correct for when manufactured.     The  upright Varsity  Tourist generally makes much more sense today, than the normal Varsity model that we typically think of.   The problem is that the Downtube Shifter location is horrible for anyone wanting to ride upright tourist style.    Thus,  one can  do much much better by simply acquiring a 1967 - 1982 Varsity and converting to Tourist  configuration-----or----- acquiring a 1967-1969 Varsity tourist  -OR- a 1970 - 1976 Suburban Ten Speed.     
Or  you  can  fit  Suntour stem mount shifters,  or the Schwinn Twin Stik stem mount shifters.....or something else that moves the shifters to either the stem location or the handlebars.
Schwinn introduced the great Twin Stik stem shifters with the 1967 model year.   

The mid sixties Varsity is a really good bicycle.  The large front chainring is smaller (at 50 teeth,  I think, instead of the 52 teeth that all of the late sixties - thru the seventies to the Chicago end have).
That 50 T   large front chainring may be more desireable for many people that want to ride upright and slow, city style because 50 teeth is more manageable  for  weaker,  less athletic people.      52 gives much greater top speed potential but realistically unless one is in good shape, having 52 teeth  is less practical when using the majority of gears with the big ring.
That is probably a plus for that vintage Varsity in upright tourist configuration.  By the same token, most folks wishing to ride an old Varsity  racing style in the drops,  would  want the 52 because Varsities are heavy and slow as is.
The one huge improvement that one can make to the rideablity of every Varsity is to install a  Maeda SUNTOUR rear derailleur instead of the factory schwinn approved Huret Allvit.    Doing that or installing a Shimano rear derailleur  will make the Varsity a great riding 10 speed, much better than it ever was out of Chicago,   unless of course you happen to own a seventies version that left the factory with a substituted  GT-100(shimano)  or GT-120(shimano) rear derailleur from the seventies era Collegiate-Suburban 5 speed.     Schwinn did market in 1977-1978  a  SUNTOUR equipped "varsity clones"  called the SPORTABOUT and RUNABOUT  which were better than the VARSITY because of  the Japanese derailleur instead of French rear derailleur.
The Huret Allvit is the most decent rear derailleur that Europe ever produced, but  the Japanese (Maeda SUNTOUR  and SHIMANO )  really took  operational quality, reliability, and durability to another level which which no European firm has ever come close to equalling.

Varsities  are great bicycles  despite  the fact the todays road-bike crowd  loves to make fun of them because of the really heavy, 40 pound weight.

Despite the fact that the vast majority of Varsity bikes have drop bars and left the Schwinn factory that way,  VARSITIES SHOULD BE CONVERTED TO UPRIGHT CITY-TOURIST STYLE BIKES,  TODAY IN THE 21st CENTURY, BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS THEM FOR RIDING IN THE "ROAD-BIKE" RACING POSITION, CROUCHED OVER STYLE   BECAUSE THEY ARE AT LEAST 15 POUNDS HEAVIER THAN THE TYPICAL "ROAD-BIKE"  OF TODAY.
The relaxed frame angle geometry of these old electroforged Schwinn frames, and their long wheelbase REALLY LENDS ITSELF TO VERY COMFORTABLE,  VERY STABLE & VERY PREDICTABLE RIDING/STEERING.
Look at the "slack angles":  See how both the headtube and the seat-tube almost both point to about 10:45  to 11:00  if you imagine a  clock or watch dial face.
You can probably ride for at least a 1/4 Mile with No Hands on the handlebars on any Varsity.  I don't recommend that you try doing this because an ER visit today in 2022 will cost you a fortune.   
My suggestion to anyone considering converting their Varsity to tourist configuration is:
Choose tourist handlebars that you like  ( I highly recommend the Schwinn 7881 handlebars, of 1967-1977 era, first seen on the '67 Breeze, and then Collegiates/Suburbans others)
The Black "Cushion Grip" handlebar grips that I think first appeared on the 1971 SUBURBANS are the most comfortable handlebar grip that Schwinn or anyone ever made in my opinion.
Choose the seat that you find to be most comfortable to you.
Remember that the 13"/16" inch diameter Schwinn seatpost has a 5/8" seat mount top portion and is approx about 9 inches long.  IF YOU NEED LONGER  Wald sells  13/16" diameter NEW POSTS in a variety of lengths with either the old-fashioned 5/8" top   or with a modern 7/8" top for today's new aftermarket seats.    Certainly you can typically swap the old timey 5/8 seat clamp from an ancient seat on to the seat frame rails of a new aftermkt seat after removing its 7/8 seat clamp.    Now,  new aftermkt 5/8" seat clamps aren't being reproduced,   as  7/8" seat clamps appear to be the only new aftmkt seat clamps that are currently available for such ancient bikes and beach cruiser type bicycles.     As you know, you can get away with flipping the original seat post upside down  in the seat-tube, but by doing this,  you lose some of the maximum available seat height extension because the tapered portion now in the seat-tube CANNOT count for any portion of the necessary minimum insertion length.    Yes, 13/16 is  1/16th smaller than  the 7/8  seat clamp of  new modern aftmkt  seats  but  you  can  tighten  the bolt down more than enough to account for this  very small 1/16th  difference,  such that everything will be fine.
Get the pedals that you like the best, and ride with those.
Consider swapping out the original equipment  French freewheel  28 to 14 gear cogs  FOR THE JAPANESE freewheel that has 32 to 14 gear  cogs  which is on all 1970 - 1977 Collegiate five speed models & is also on 1970 - 1976 SUBURBAN Five SPEED models  (***HOWEVER NOT ON Suburban 10 speeds which have the same 28 to 14 as the VARSITY/CONTINENTAL)
You want the MODEL J freewheel from the 1970-1977 Collegiate & 1970-1976 SUBURBAN 5 Speed.
1969 & earlier Collegiate has the same 28 to 14   as  Varsity/Continental,  so that won't do you any good.
IF YOU WANT TO UPGRADE YOUR VARSITY SUCH THAT IT EQUALS A SUBURBAN,  You would need to obtain a tubular front fork from the exact same size frame  SUBURBAN or CONTINENTAL of the seventies.
The forged Blade fork rides so good,  that I don't think that changing to the tubular front fork of the Suburban/Continental will improve it that much.

Ride them if you have them,  as they were built to last,  and  have a comfortable, stable ride,  though they aren't very fast because of their massive weight.   This makes them perfect candidates for upright-tourist style.


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## bikerbluz (Oct 25, 2022)

I have a very nice 67 Varsity that is similar in it’s conversion as the original post. Bars were also wrapped very nicely by perhaps the dealer? Stem and pedals look to be the sport model, but it has fenders present also. A Brooks B67 sits atop it. This pic was before clean up. The speedometer shows around 350 miles. Someone really loved this one. Paint is as perfect as any bike I have ever owned. Tires appear to be original. At some point I will get back to it and perhaps with new Panracers fitted, enjoy a nice relaxed ride.


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Oct 25, 2022)

I find it odd that so many drop bar 10 speeds were sold back in the 60's and 70's when the tourist models would have been a much better way to ride. all my buddies had Schwinn Continentals and Varsitys but me.  🙂


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## bikerbluz (Oct 25, 2022)

My first adult bike was a Kool Lemon 72 Continental


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## DrRumack80 (Oct 25, 2022)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> I find it odd that so many drop bar 10 speeds were sold back in the 60's and 70's when the tourist models would have been a much better way to ride. all my buddies had Schwinn Continentals and Varsitys but me.  🙂



I guess the drop bars were what was fashionable at the time. Honestly, I found that my '74 Varsity rode better after converting it to a tourist with the Schwinn #7881 bars and Weinmann gold dots.


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## bikerbluz (Oct 25, 2022)

I agree about it being fashionable. Also an element of too much testosterone and not enough common sense, yet, lol. As a 16 year old, the flashy drop bar kool lemon ride I am sure impressed my girlfriend tremendously as I ripped around town, hahahaha. Looking back,  a 71 Nova  which came a couple years later, would have been much more impressive. But I was still proud of that flashy Continental.


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## Eric Amlie (Oct 26, 2022)

Here's an ad for the '65 Varsity with Joe Kool impressing the girls.
They appear to be pretty impressed.


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## DrRumack80 (Oct 26, 2022)

A young Rick Springfield on his Varsity, but he lost the girl to some slick Continental dude.


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## bikerbluz (Oct 26, 2022)

Hahaha, nice ads. Thanks for posting.


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## 60sstuff (Oct 26, 2022)

bikerbluz said:


> I have a very nice 67 Varsity that is similar in it’s conversion as the original post. Bars were also wrapped very nicely by perhaps the dealer? Stem and pedals look to be the sport model, but it has fenders present also. A Brooks B67 sits atop it. This pic was before clean up. The speedometer shows around 350 miles. Someone really loved this one. Paint is as perfect as any bike I have ever owned. Tires appear to be original. At some point I will get back to it and perhaps with new Panracers fitted, enjoy a nice relaxed ride.
> 
> View attachment 1719375



That is a nice looking Varsity!
Love that color with the aged decals, very cool.


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## Arnold Ziffel (Oct 26, 2022)

You do realize that Rick Springfield grew up down under in Australia,  I think, where there were no Schwinns.

The 1969 model introduction of the safety levers (a.k.a. "Turkey Levers") was massively popular and was what probably prompted the tidal wave towards racing handlebar bikes,  because you could NOW RIDE THE TOPS and never have to go to the lower curved portion.       Every manufacturer in the world copied Schwinn and began offering Turkey Levers on at least some of their lineup of 10 speed offerings.         Most folks who bought 10 speeds during the BIKE BOOM specifically chose a ten speed model with racing bars and turkey levers.   They also by an overwhelming majority, specifically wanted their ten speed to have their shifters located on the stem,  rather than down low on the downtube.   This irritates most  younger  "road-bike" enthusiasts today that despise stem shifters, turkey levers, steel wheels, one piece cranks, and any bike heavier than 28 pounds.  They automatically associate stem shifters, turkey levers, steel wheels, and one piece cranks with undesireable, low rent bicycles that nobody should want to own and ride.    As you can see,  those youngsters haven't yet lived enough to know what a great riding old classic ten speed actually is.

The  great,  "COSMO's  FACTORY"    album  (released 1970) ,  one of the best rock and roll  albums of all-time,   probably helped a little bit in furthering the popularity and coolness of the 10 speed  as  you cannot miss Doug Clifford's  Schwinn on the cover.
That  "COSMO's FACTORY"    8 track tape ,  sold in massive quantities,   as  did the L.P..
You would see that 10 speed each and every time that you would insert that 8 track into the 8 track player in your Volkswagen Beetle!    Boon   Boop   Boop  Boon   bet  you're wonderin how I knew.........


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## bikerbluz (Oct 26, 2022)

I had Creedence Clearwaters Cosmos Factory on eight track. Definitely great jams to cruise to back in the day, and still great music today.


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## DrRumack80 (Oct 26, 2022)

Arnold Ziffel said:


> You do realize that Rick Springfield grew up down under in Australia,  I think, where there were no Schwinns.
> 
> The 1969 model introduction of the safety levers (a.k.a. "Turkey Levers") was massively popular and was what probably prompted the tidal wave towards racing handlebar bikes,  because you could NOW RIDE THE TOPS and never have to go to the lower curved portion.       Every manufacturer in the world copied Schwinn and began offering Turkey Levers on at least some of their lineup of 10 speed offerings.         Most folks who bought 10 speeds during the BIKE BOOM specifically chose a ten speed model with racing bars and turkey levers.   They also by an overwhelming majority, specifically wanted their ten speed to have their shifters located on the stem,  rather than down low on the downtube.   This irritates most  younger  "road-bike" enthusiasts today that despise stem shifters, turkey levers, steel wheels, one piece cranks, and any bike heavier than 28 pounds.  They automatically associate stem shifters, turkey levers, steel wheels, and one piece cranks with undesireable, low rent bicycles that nobody should want to own and ride.    As you can see,  those youngsters haven't yet lived enough to know what a great riding old classic ten speed actually is.
> 
> The  great,  "COSMO's  FACTORY"    album  (released 1970) ,  one of the best rock and roll  albums of all-time,   probably helped a little bit in furthering the popularity and coolness of the 10 speed  as  you cannot miss Doug Clifford's  Schwinn on the cover.



Mr. Ziffel, I believe you are correct. Excellent point! I couldn't resist, though. 😁

Yes,  the Varsity was no doubt disparaged by many serious cyclists. It's weight and one piece crankset made it an easy target. However, to label the Varsity a low rent bike is a mistake. The Schwinn one-piece crank was machined and finely crafted, and very likely lighter than the cottered cranks found on many low-end bikes in the 70's.  Also, Schwinn used alloy hubs vs the heavy steel hubs from other manufacturers. The Varsity was not a professional road bike, and it was not designed to be. It was (and is) fun to ride, reliable, tough, and versatile. It's the reason so many are in use to this day. I suspect they will still be in use after many of us are gone.

Back in the 90's early 2000's, my LBS owner(now retired), a Schwinn dealer since the late 60's, used to dread working on the department store Roadmasters, Huffys, etc that would come in for repair. However, he said that anytime a customer wheeled in a Varsity or Continental from the 70s that had sat for 20 or 30 years, it usually just needed some lube on the chain, new tires/brake pads, and out the door it went!

Tom Shaddox, in his excellent article archived on Sheldon Brown's site, stated that the Varsity is "the single most significant American bicycle."  I tend to agree with that statement.

I have to check out the album you mentioned!


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## MantonSmith (Oct 27, 2022)

I bought this one new when it came out in 1970. It's a little beat up but I played the heck out of it. Great album


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## bikerbluz (Oct 28, 2022)

That is a sweet album cover and so awesome that you have held on to it 52 years! Makes me want to pop on some Creedence!


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## DrRumack80 (Oct 28, 2022)

bikerbluz said:


> That is a sweet album cover and so awesome that you have held on to it 52 years! Makes me want to pop on some Creedence!



Agreed! I've never seen it before. It's a bit hard to make out details, but it looks like the bike has centerpull brakes, a quick release hub and a chrome fork. If that is a Schwinn, maybe a Super Sport?


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## bikerbluz (Oct 28, 2022)

I agree with the guess on Super Sport. Looks like maybe toe clips also? Not sure what Schwinns would have been offered in black during that time period? At any rate, Schwinn or not, pretty cool!


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## DrRumack80 (Oct 28, 2022)

bikerbluz said:


> I agree with the guess on Super Sport. Looks like maybe toe clips also? Not sure what Schwinns would have been offered in black during that time period? At any rate, Schwinn or not, pretty cool!



Definitely toe clips. Good question. The Paramounts were available in numerous colors. Maybe the bike on the cover is Sierra Brown and looks darker?


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## bikerbluz (Oct 28, 2022)

It sure looks like Schwinn stem shifters poking up by the handle bars. No black in anything but a Paramount in the late 60’s. 68-69 the Super sport was available in Sierra Brown and came with a full chrome fork……


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## Arnold Ziffel (Oct 29, 2022)

See the photo (post #115) of the album cover photo below in greater detail








						Fogerty's Factory
					

I don't agree. I've heard a fair amount of CCRevisited and they sound more to me like Creedence than does Forgery solo. Even the Don Harris track...




					forums.stevehoffman.tv
				




It is either a 1969 or 1970 Schwinn Super Sport.    The safety levers were new for '69 and were not on 1968 and earlier.

If you ever get the chance to see  J. F.  in your city,  you will not be disappointed.   He is great live.   
His voice still sounds the same.   I captured him on his 1969 tour in 2015  and  his vocals sound exactly like they do on Green River,  Willie & The Poorboys, Cosmo's Factory, The Concert(oakland jan 31, 1970),Live in Europe(ccr as 3 piece sept'71), Live at Woodstock august 1969  CD(released in 2019), and  just released less than one month ago, the APRIL 14th, 1970 LONDON Royal Albert Hall concert  CD (released in October 2022).     I listen to it in my car all the time, the sound quality is better than most live FM broadcasts  & most live LP's from 1969.
The  newly issued Royal Albert Hall  CD   is NOT THE SAME as the erroneous 1980 issued LP, titled  "Live at Royal Albert Hall", which proved to be the Oakland Coliseum Jan 31, 1970  tapes,  such that the LP was retitled  "The Concert" within a month of its release to reflect that it was actually from Oakland and not from Royal Albert in London as mistakenly issued originally in 1980.
BBC British television videotaped-filmed and recorded the concert for use on British television.   It the entire video was once up on youtube a number of years ago before it was forced off, signalling a possibilty that the recording might possibly be officially released in the future.      It is a fantastic performance.     The sound quality is better than  the The Concert (LP) and The Live in Europe (LP)  and the respective CD re-issues of those releases.    The reason is simple that you do not have the sound quality limitations of the  LP format to deal with when transferring a quality live tape recording.   You don't have to neuter the bass and other high end treble detail and other dynamics in order for the sound to become a playable LP.     If you don't make certain concessions when mastering for LP such a dynamic live tape,   the needle won't stay in the groove, and the LP would be unlistenable.     Releasing such content  on  say   CD,  or  SACD,   direct digital download,  or say on a TAPE ONLY release would allow you to not have to worry about neutering the content and then hoping that the RIAA Equalization Curve  built into magnetic phono pre-amps  will get it close enough to the actual  realistic sound.         Yes,  those two latest CCR live CD's  (woodstock '69  issued in 2019)  and  (London ROYAL ALBERT HALL April 14, 1970   issued just a few weeks ago in Oct 2022) 
are  also  available  in  LP  (long playing record) versions   but  why in the world  would you want such great music on such a vastly inferior sound reproduction format.     I don't dispute that there are some old recordings (LP era releases) that as presented, sometimes sound better on the original LP release but given the proper conditions where the highest quality source material is used and great care is taken to present it in the best  sonic quality attainable,  then  CD or digital does offer the best potential for doing so.
Having said that,  certainly,  it is possible to make a compact disc or other digital release sound like garbage, despite the vastly superior quality potential of any high resolution digital format over the primitive  pressed record.
Fogerty is a national treasure that puts on one helluva  top-notch rock n roll show.   You won't be disappointed if you get the chance to see him in concert.


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## kostnerave (Nov 1, 2022)

I think I'm more into the Camco drum kit than I am the bike!


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## Wheelee (Nov 7, 2022)

The bike was a '69 or '70 Sky Blue Super Sport. Doug Clifford said about the bike that he used to get to Cosmo's Factory in Berkeley, “I rode that bike to work every day, I lived up in the hills, seven and a half miles away. Coming to practice was all downhill, and going home after playing drums for hours, it was (uphill through the traffic).”


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## one-eyed sailor (Dec 9, 2022)

Mr Ziffel, this is both entertaining and educational. 👍


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