# Pre war rust bucket ID



## Pure Bikes (Aug 31, 2009)

I went to a guys house to pick up another bike and he had this laying against a shed. I asked him about it and he said I could have it. I didn't think it was repairable but I started taking it apart and to my amazement it came apart pretty easily(with a mallet, some freeze off and a torch).  The only thing wrong with the frame besides the rust is that the little bridge connecting the chain stays rusted through, but that is an easy fix. Now I am wondering what type of bike it is and what year? Any help? Thanks for looking.


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## eazywind (Aug 31, 2009)

*Cleveland welding make Hawthorne is my guess*

Cleveland welding made Hawthorne is my guess. Phil, Phil??


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## RMS37 (Aug 31, 2009)

Your bike was manufactured by the Cleveland Welding Company between 1940 and 1942. The curved down tube was introduced in late 1940 and was in production until early 1942 when bicycle production was halted for WW2. The fork was not produced after the war and the similar postwar frames do not have drop stand tangs on the rear dropouts. 

The generic name for the style of frame you have is the ?3-Gill? named for the tank that fits the frame although the bike was sold both with and without a tank.

The front sprocket would suggest that the bike was originally sold through Montgomery Ward but it may have been changed at some point. The ghost of the badge does not look like it is the shape of a M-W Hawthorne badge and that fork and chain guard were used on many CWC Roadmaster bikes (and other branded CWC bikes) but not on those supplied to M-W 

If you post the serial number that will help for pinning down the build year.


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## Adamtinkerer (Aug 31, 2009)

Phil to the rescue! I can only add that the winged "H" badges on 1936-42 Hawthornes had the rivets on the sides, and that maybe the 46-47 bikes had a revised version with vertical mounting holes. It's not clear in the Hawthorne book (copies of old catalog pages). You could make a neat rat rod out of that, or a very ambitious resto, with lots of filler in the rust pits! Kudos for saving vintage iron from totally rusting back to dust!


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## JLarkin (Aug 31, 2009)

Looks like a Roadmaster badge image to me but the fender braces look like Hawthorne.  Maybe it's a Roadthorne.  

You can have a real nice bike once sandblasted, one good wipe of putty and a heavy coat of primer.  The work will be worth it!


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## Pure Bikes (Aug 31, 2009)

*serial number*

The serial number is A19141


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## Pure Bikes (Aug 31, 2009)

Thanks for the help guys. I am not sure what I am going to do with it yet. I was thinking rat rod for now and then maybe do a little more correct restore later. 

I also saved a bunch of other bikes this guy had sitting under an open shed. Mostly 70's muscle bikes and a couple of old bmxers. Got a 78 motomag, 76 western flyer mx, another western flyer, a schwinn hollywood, a schwinn typhoon, and a schwinn suburban. All in all it was a good bike day. He also had a post war schwinn dx and a goodyear made by schwinn double bar that he wouldn't sell me, but I got him thinking about it so hopefully I get a phone call soon. 

It's amazing what you can find in a trailer park if you just stop and look around!


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## RMS37 (Aug 31, 2009)

The fender braces are of CWC origin. CWC curved braces were introduced for the 1939 model year. Like the earlier straight braces they were stamped from thick stock with a slight cross-sectional curvature and had axel eyes that were riveted to the ends of the braces. For 1940 the braces were changed to deeply pressed braces made from thinner metal and are one piece inclusive of the fender eyes. Both straight and curved versions of these later braces were available and used for several years.

Montgomery Ward sold similar models produced by both CWC and Snyder. The fenders and braces on the Snyder built bikes are different that the ones that CWC produced. When viewed from the side Snyder braces feature a bit less pronounced arc and are wider and not as deeply pressed. In addition Snyder favored a front brace that angled forward into the wind while the CWC braces attach to the fender directly (vertical, at 12 o?clock) over the axel

Regarding the serial number, I believe A19141 means your bike is very late 1941 or early 1942 production. (CWC halted bicycle production in February of 1942)

In 1935-36, when CWC first began bicycle production several letters were used to begin the serial numbers but most of the ?first year? bikes have serial numbers that begin with an ?A?.

Serial numbers ran sequentially to 99999 and then the next letter was introduced.

Judging by known bikes and features this sequence appears to progress to the letter ?K?, used during 1941. Instead of beginning the next sequence with the letter ?L??, CWC started over with the letter ?A?.

Your bike is the sixth late Prewar ?A? bike I have recorded. It appears that the truss rods on the bike may have originally been painted white, which is one of the measures that CWC used to conserve chrome on the last bikes produced before the wartime shut-down. The tall headlight strut is another feature that appears only on late prewar bikes.

Late prewar production might also explain the Hawthorne pattern sprocket on a bike that looks to have been Roadmaster badged. As the industry was shutting down to gear up for war production, some of the last bikes assembled were built from parts on hand rather than to standard model specifications.


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## RMS37 (Aug 31, 2009)

BWbiker was quick to notice an inaccuracy in my post and PM'ed me on it. To clarify my comment about the tall headlight strut, I should have said it "made it's _*first*_ apearance on late prewar bikes" The tall strut also appears on many postwar CWC bikes. I'm just comming out of my LeMay stupor and not writing at my best.


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## BWbiker (Aug 31, 2009)

*Beat down on Phil.....*



RMS37 said:


> BWbiker was quick to notice an inaccuracy in my post and PM'ed me on it. To clarify my comment about the tall headlight strut, I should have said it "made it's _*first*_ apearance on late prewar bikes" The tall strut also appears on many postwar CWC bikes. I'm just comming out of my LeMay stupor and not writing at my best.



Sorry I was not trying to beat you up Phil! :o I know you probably had a loooong weekend! Here is a pic of the post war version mount and fork. Brad


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## Pure Bikes (Sep 1, 2009)

*cwc*

Thanks for the info guys. I will let you know how it goes with the project. Do the headlights for these ever pop up, or is it a lost cause?


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## RMS37 (Sep 1, 2009)

Several different head lights were used on 1941-42 CWC bikes. It is most likely that your bike had a version of the ?Softball headlight.?  The Softball is a large spherical light that contain its own batteries so no external power source is required. The light has two metal tabs on the bottom that are used to mount it to the strut.

Variations of this light turn up on eBay with some frequency but versions were made by at least three different companies and it is not clear as of yet (to me at least) which one or ones were actually used by CWC.


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## Pure Bikes (Sep 1, 2009)

Alright I will keep an eye out. Thanks again.


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## Pure Bikes (Aug 15, 2010)

So I finally started to strip down this CWC 3 gill frame I have and underneath the black paint was this great orange. Is this the original paint? Or has it been repainted a couple of times? Also some of the brazing seems a little botched. Do you think it was repaired or just kind of sloppy because they were trying to get rid of frames before the war? Thanks for the help.


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