# 1939 Hawthorne Twinbar Zep



## bairdco

Finally getting around to restoring/rebuilding my Zep.

Posted it up here a few times, and thanks to you guys, pretty much confirmed it's CWC-built, making it the third one known to exist (please prove me right or wrong, I can't find any others besides a rusty one and the blue one on Dave's site.

Serial number: E08804 with a 9C






I hate red bikes, so I was happy to find original blue paint in the bottom bracket:


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## bairdco

Got this bike from a friend, who's dad found it in an abandoned warehouse in Santa Ana, CA. Rusty and missing parts.



 

Front fender has holes for a light, so it might be the "standard twinbar model," but it has the horseshoe truss rod bracket for the twin lights. Fenders fit right, so probably original.


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## bairdco

Wheels were Lobdell drop centers with a Musselman coaster and a finned eclipse up front, but my buddy relaced the wheels with some different, modern wheels.

I had some rusty, bent, crappy drop centers so I straightened them, sandblasted and painted them blue with black pinstripes, and relaced them, using the Musselman coaster and a new departure up front. 



 



 

Down the road I may swap them out with a chrome pair with the correct ND coaster, but for now, I'm going with what I have.


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## bairdco

Sandblasted all the parts and painted them a deep blue. Need to make the pointy darts on the frame in white, and gonna do a thin black outline.


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## bairdco

Fenders are going to get the same treatment, white tips with black pinstripe. 

I hate the chevron arrow on the forks like the restored one on Dave's site,  so I'm gonna do a different Hawthorne dart for mine.

That's where I'm at so far. Rusty parts are going to the chromer's, and I'll be pinstriping and detailing while I wait.

Need a chainguard, rack, tank (wish me luck on that,) lights, seat, pedals... but it's a start...


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## bairdco

For reference, these are the only two I've seen, both on Dave's site (thanks Dave!) And the only ad I've seen.


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## fordmike65

Very nice start! Yes, these bikes are seldom seen....but there are more out there than you'd think. I personally know of at least 5 not including your find.


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## bairdco

Post 'em up if you have pics! 

On a side note, for a company called "Cleveland Welding," they're really lousy at brazing:



 

I had to repair the missing chunks (that are now rattling around in the tubes.)


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## 39zep

I know you don't like red, but here is the kingpin of all 39 Zep twinbars. You can PM or email if you need any further info/pics. Best of luck with your project. In my opinion, the most under appreciated deluxe bike of that era. guyer.jeff@yahoo.com


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## bairdco

Awesome bike! Thanks for posting it.

Are your bars original?  Mine has the flatter, streamlined torringtons like in the ad.


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## bairdco

Parts pile:


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## 39zep

When I acquired the bike, it did not have the handlebars. I did get a lesson about torrington bars from Walt Adams at the Coasters CWC ride last weekend. I did not know about the different profiles. Double checked mine and they seem to be the flat style.


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## bairdco

I was hoping to have mine at least rideable to make that CWC ride, but just didn't have the time. 

I wish there were some original photos or other ads for these bikes. All we have to go on is the drawings. 

In the ad, the red one has different fork darts, chainguard, looks like one straight fender brace (both mine are curved,) and other differences.

Maybe one of you hoarders out there (I mean that in a good way) have some other documentation laying around?


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## fordmike65




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## ohdeebee




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## fordmike65

ohdeebee said:


> View attachment 312134



Is that CWC built? Not questioning, just asking


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## ohdeebee




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## ohdeebee

fordmike65 said:


> Is that CWC built? Not questioning, just asking




I couldn't tell you. Showed up at ML.


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## 39zep




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## 39zep

Didn't notice any holes in the bottom center bar of your frame. Much like the 37RMS, tanked bikes had battery trays that screwed directly to the frame. Regards to Jerry at CNH for photos.


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## fordmike65

Could Bairdco's be a tankless version?


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## 39zep

If there were no holes originally in his frame. My guess would be that it was tankless. But there are a lot smarter Cabers than I to better answer that question.


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## bairdco

Nope. No holes. That would make mine a standard twinbar. Which goes along with the holes in the front fender for a light.

Oh well. Makes restoring it that much easier, since I don't have to find a tank.

The crusty one posted is monark built. And one of those black ones is Snyder built.


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## fordmike65

bairdco said:


> The crusty one posted is monark built. And one of those black ones is Snyder built.





Not Monark built. Most likely Snyder, but BB might be a clue. Possibly CWC


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## JAF/CO

fordmike65 said:


> Not Monark built. Most likely Snyder, but BB might be a clue. Possibly CWC



CWC built


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## fordmike65

JAF/CO said:


> CWC built




Good eye JIm. Thought it might be. Same frame as this bike


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## WetDogGraphix

39zep said:


> View attachment 312139View attachment 312140



Is anyone reproducing these tanks?
Thanks.


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## scrubbinrims

Of the few of these 39 Zeppelin full dress bikes known...and they are classified rare by Phill Marshall... most are Snyder built (like mine) but who cares?
What matters is if you have the tank #1 and #2 is it original?
Chris


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## JAF/CO

scrubbinrims said:


> Of the few of these 39 Zeppelin full dress bikes known...and they are classified rare by Phill Marshall... most are Snyder built (like mine) but who cares?
> What matters is if you have the tank #1 and #2 is it original?
> Chris



Post some pic Chris


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## Nickinator

I have a 39 as well, not sure who made mine snyder or cwc. But this is as far as mine has gotten so far, but still searching for parts, looking for fenders in rusty red (if possible) and a tank, I know that's like asking for the grail. 

Nick.


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## Jarod24

Nickinator said:


> I have a 39 as well, not sure who made mine snyder or cwc. But this is as far as mine has gotten so far, but still searching for parts, looking for fenders in rusty red (if possible) and a tank, I know that's like asking for the grail.
> 
> Nick.
> 
> View attachment 312211
> 
> View attachment 312212



I'm pretty sure this one is a CWC and the blue one is Snyder. If I'm wrong something correct me.


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## Jarod24

@Freqman1 would know


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## fordmike65

Let's see the BB & rear fender mounts.


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## Jarod24

fordmike65 said:


> Not Monark built. Most likely Snyder, but BB might be a clue. Possibly CWC



I think this is synder as well


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## JAF/CO

fordmike65 said:


> Let's see the BB & rear fender mounts.



What Mike said

A picture of the tear frame stay
Behind the seat
Straight  is cwc
Curved us snider


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## fordmike65

Jarod24 said:


> I think this is synder as well




I wasn't sure myself, but turns out it is indeed CWC. This is a different style frame than what is being discussed here tho. The OP's bike is a "Zep", manufactured by both Snyder & CWC.  The others, including this one that popped up at ML, are Hawthorne Twin Bars.


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## JAF/CO

That blue bike may even a monarch double bar


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## JAF/CO

Nick let us know if your is a cwc or snider


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## fordmike65

JAF/CO said:


> That blue bike may even a monarch double bar
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Pretty sure it's CWC


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## JAF/CO

More pis tell the real story


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## Nickinator

Heres a pic, guessing its snyder? 
Nick.






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## fordmike65

Nickinator said:


> Heres a pic, guessing its snyder?
> Nick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





BINGO!


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## Jarod24

fordmike65 said:


> BINGO!



What about the bowed stays? Wasn't that a CWC thing?


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## fordmike65

Jarod24 said:


> What about the bowed stays? Wasn't that a CWC thing?



Oh yeah...forgot about that lil detail. Ok, how bout a pic of the BB!


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## Jarod24

Monark is easy to tell, down tubes go under the BB. But on @Nickinator bike those seat and chain stays say CWC to me. I could be wrong though.


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## fordmike65

PHIL MARSHALL WHERE ARE YOU...............


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## Jarod24

So was this one restore wrong then? Cause it appears to have a curved rear cross brace but it has a CWC fork.


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## fordmike65

Jarod24 said:


> So was this one restore wrong then? Cause it appears to have a curved rear cross brace but it has a CWC fork.
> 
> View attachment 312236




I've seen many Snyder built bikes equipped with CWC springer forks. Most likely before Snyder came out with their own.
http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/ladies-curved-seatpost-snyder.89420/


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## Jarod24

fordmike65 said:


> I've seen many Snyder built bikes equipped with CWC springer forks. Most likely before Snyder came out with their own.
> http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/ladies-curved-seatpost-snyder.89420/



Is the only factor the curved cross brace that you are basing this on? Im not trying to argue with anyone here, just trying to learn


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## bairdco

Pic of the crusty bike looks like the tubes go under the bottom bracket.  That'd be monark. And straight chain/seat stays.


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## Jarod24

bairdco said:


> Pic of the crusty bike looks like the tubes go under the bottom bracket.  That'd be monark. And straight chain/seat stays.




To me the crusty bike doesn't appear to run under the BB.


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## Jarod24

fordmike65 said:


> I've seen many Snyder built bikes equipped with CWC springer forks. Most likely before Snyder came out with their own.
> http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/ladies-curved-seatpost-snyder.89420/



It's just so weird to me to have all these CWC frame qualities like the curved seat post like the RMS and then the 5 bars have the bowed seat and chain stays and they just happen to be equipped with a CWC fork but it's not a CWC.


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## fordmike65

bairdco said:


> Pic of the crusty bike looks like the tubes go under the bottom bracket.  That'd be monark. And straight chain/seat stays.



Which bike are you referring to?


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## fordmike65

We really need to see some serial numbers if we want to put this CWC vs Snyder thing to rest


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## Jarod24

fordmike65 said:


> Which bike are you referring to?




Referring to this one. Doesn't look to run under the crank housing


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## fordmike65

Jarod24 said:


> Referring to this one. Doesn't look to run under the crank housing
> 
> View attachment 312267
> 
> View attachment 312268



CWC


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## Jarod24

So the only difference in the synder and the CWC is the curved or straight cross brace?


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## Jarod24

So there bowed seat and chain stays model was made by both as well?


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## fordmike65

See, the problem is we're taking this poor Cabe'rs thread off on a tangent about a completely different frame. I'm going to start another thread about the "Non-Monark" Hawthorne Twin Bars where can compare those bikes. These two bikes you posted above are not the same bike bairdco is building up.


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## Jarod24

I think his frame is still involved in this thread. But I think I found a thread that may help answer our questions

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/hawthorne-comet-reference-thread.31512/


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## fordmike65

fordmike65 said:


> See, the problem is we're taking this poor Cabe'rs thread off on a tangent about a completely different frame. I'm going to start another thread about the "Non-Monark" Hawthorne Twin Bars where can compare those bikes. These two bikes you posted above are not the same bike bairdco is building up.



http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/non-monark-built-hawthorne-twin-bars-snyder-cwc-built.90207/


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## fordmike65

Jarod24 said:


> I think his frame is still involved in this thread. But I think I found a thread that may help answer our questions
> 
> http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/hawthorne-comet-reference-thread.31512/




Great info there. Thanks for posting the link. Phil was always a welcome wealth of knowledge & dearly missed... 
Yes, that thread does indeed help with bairdco's bike, Nick's bike, Jeff'd(39zep's),etc. Not so much the other Hawthorne Twin Bar frames that have been posted above.


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## scrubbinrims

The "Zep" was designated as Montgomery Ward's top end model in the catalogue.
By request , here's mine I scored from craiglist locally with one crappy cell phone picture not long after I got in the hobby . 450.00 later it was in my van, but priceless being local.
There is a factory tank cutout for the two speed but I haven't figured out yet how the wraparound chainguard fits a 12-tooth sprocket...
Chris


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## WetDogGraphix

I'm going to ask again, is anyone reproducing these tanks?


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## fordmike65

WetDogGraphix said:


> I'm going to ask again, is anyone reproducing these tanks?



Never seen them reproduced.


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## bairdco

The crusty one I thought was a monark is a completely different frame. Straight rear triangle, different downtubes. Looks like I'm wrong about the bb, though.

Both bikes posted by jarod24 are completely different than mine. Big obvious clue is the straight downtubes. Cwc or snyder, doesn't matter, no the same bikes.

Mine has the straight fender stay, swoopy rear end, and a CWC type serial number.

I don't mind this thread going off on different twinbars, but if it's obviously not the same frame as mine, there's a bunch of other threads devoted to twinbars of other makers and styles.


I just wanna get the damn thing rideable.


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## ram.1950

bairdco said:


> Post 'em up if you have pics!
> 
> On a side note, for a company called "Cleveland Welding," they're really lousy at brazing:
> 
> View attachment 312109
> 
> I had to repair the missing chunks (that are now rattling around in the tubes.)



I've owned 26 Cleveland Welding bikes and have never seen that kind of work. I'm very suspicious about how that joint got that way.


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## bairdco

I've owned four. The seat post clamp always has a ton of crap all over it to hold it to the frame, I've had bubbles in the brazing, and brazing spatter all around the tubes.

Maybe the reason they only made the twinbar zep one year was because all their experienced brazers quit and they hired a bunch of drunks.


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## ramjet70

bairdco said:


> The crusty one I thought was a monark is a completely different frame. Straight rear triangle, different downtubes. Looks like I'm wrong about the bb, though.
> 
> Both bikes posted by jarod24 are completely different than mine. Big obvious clue is the straight downtubes. Cwc or snyder, doesn't matter, no the same bikes.
> 
> Mine has the straight fender stay, swoopy rear end, and a CWC type serial number.
> 
> I don't mind this thread going off on different twinbars, but if it's obviously not the same frame as mine, there's a bunch of other threads devoted to twinbars of other makers and styles.
> 
> 
> I just wanna get the damn thing rideable.



Is this twin bar frame style a one year only frame.


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## bairdco

Can't believe it's been a year since I started messing with this thing.

It's going back to my buddy who came back from Belize a few months back, and he finally decided he didn't want to pay for the chrome, so the rusty stuff got a quick "polish," and he'll take care of chroming it in the future.

It's a pretty amateur restoration, or, low budget, since finding and buying undented parts is expensive and almost impossible. 

I also suck at pinstriping. I mask them out and spray paint them, and they always bleed. One of these days I'll learn to do it freehand.

Anyway, here it sits as of today...


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## mfhemi1969

bairdco said:


> Sandblasted all the parts and painted them a deep blue. Need to make the pointy darts on the frame in white, and gonna do a thin black outline.
> 
> View attachment 312098
> 
> View attachment 312099



Thats sweet, Really looking good.


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## Robertriley

ohdeebee said:


> View attachment 312135



Wow!  Who's is this?


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## Barto

I'm still learning and have always been interested in Zep's....do all Zeps have a lock mounted under the frame near the fork?


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## JAF/CO

Robertriley said:


> Wow!  Who's is this?




That is a picture of one of mine
Not sure if it's the snider or the cwc


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## Robertriley

JAF/CO said:


> That is a picture of one of mine
> Not sure if it's the snider or the cwc
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Jim, You need to give that to me


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## Robertriley

JAF/CO said:


> That is a picture of one of mine
> Not sure if it's the snider or the cwc
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



"One of yours"?????  How many do you have?


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## Robertriley

scrubbinrims said:


> The "Zep" was designated as Montgomery Ward's top end model in the catalogue.
> By request , here's mine I scored from craiglist locally with one crappy cell phone picture not long after I got in the hobby . 450.00 later it was in my van, but priceless being local.
> There is a factory tank cutout for the two speed but I haven't figured out yet how the wraparound chainguard fits a 12-tooth sprocket...
> Chris
> 
> View attachment 312312



Wow!


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## JAF/CO

Robertriley said:


> "One of yours"?????  How many do you have?




I am lucky I have 2  at this time
Not ready to let them go 


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## Robertriley

JAF/CO said:


> I am lucky I have 2  at this time
> Not ready to let them go
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Ready to let one go yet?


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## Kickstand3




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## Kickstand3

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## Oldbikes

This pic from the AA show is mine and it’s Snyder built...I don’t have access to the bike right now to take better pics...






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## Oldbikes

Those are my feet on the left! [emoji23]


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## Kickstand3

Oldbikes said:


> This pic from the AA show is mine and it’s Snyder built...I don’t have access to the bike right now to take better pics...
> 
> View attachment 813395
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I like it! Mine is CW


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## Kickstand3

I’m getting there! Thanks to all the good people on the Cabe 






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## Kickstand3

Better Pics 
  Theses Rides  had  a lot going on in 1939


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## Balloonoob

Great..... Now I want one  CWC built Hawthorne Zep. Were these one year only? 39? I noticed that some of these have double curved downtubes and some have a single curved downtube. Are they both the fully loaded deluxe CWC built Hawthorne Zep? Or is one a more basic and/or common model? I had also read that the lower top bar has holes drilled in it for mounting the tank. I'm guessing that the "Snyder/CWC built Hawthorne Twin Bars" discussed in a different thread that did not come with a tank would not have had the holes and therefore this ebay tank (or an original one for that matter) would not fit?http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=114342192998 @fordmike65


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## Kickstand3

Balloonoob said:


> Great..... Now I want one  CWC built Hawthorne Zep. Were these one year only? 39? I noticed that some of these have double curved downtubes and some have a single curved downtube. Are they both the fully loaded deluxe CWC built Hawthorne Zep? Or is one a more basic and/or common model? I had also read that the lower top bar has holes drilled in it for mounting the tank. I'm guessing that the "Snyder/CWC built Hawthorne Twin Bars" discussed in a different thread that did not come with a tank would not have had the holes and therefore this ebay tank (or an original one for that matter) would not fit?http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=114342192998 @fordmike65
> 
> View attachment 1356710
> 
> View attachment 1356711
> 
> View attachment 1356712
> 
> View attachment 1356713
> 
> View attachment 1356714



The lower bar holes are not necessarily for the tank to stabilize, but to mount the battery cage /light / horn unit
These brackets keep the tank from moving around. There’s a lot of moving parts to that tank ,not like most common tanks . Just ask @zep39  he’s the real king of these beauties


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## Balloonoob

Thanks @Kickstand3 good to know about the mounting hole.    @bairdco the bike on this project thread turned out pretty darn good.  Nice work.             @fordmike65 thanks for starting the thread on the Hawthorne twin bar. It was helpful.  Adding @39zep and @saladshooter and @JAF/CO just for fun .        Now after reading up a bit more I will attempt to answer a few of my own questions. 1. CWC built Hawthorne Zep.........yeah I will never own one of these. Picking one up on Craigslist for 450 bucks is a 1 in a million chance. 2. Were these one year only? 39? Yes sounds like it. 3. I noticed that some of these have double curved downtubes and some have a single curved downtube. I think that the rusty red one shown earlier on this thread looked like a single downtube from one angle but actually had two that went into the bottom bracket.              I hope that I didn't throw this thread off on a tangent too bad.  Congrats to anyone who owns a legit CWC built Hawthorne Zep. They are beautiful bikes. It sure seems to me that a Hawthorne twin bar built as a bit of a zep tribute (and perhaps the ebay tank I referenced above may fit) is far more within reach for those of us not lucky or connected enough to to end up with one of the few real CWC built Hawthorne Zep bicycles.


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## Balloonoob

@Nickinator whatever happened to this beauty? I'd love to see a picture of it cleaned up.


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## mrg

39 Zep in the wild!, looks CWC, check the windshield!, wish the pic was clearer, looks like another CWC next to it!


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