# 19-teens Iver Johnson Truss bottom bracket nut removal help. Please.



## tailhole (May 31, 2012)

Hello,
I need to remove this bottom bracket nut so I can rebuild and grease the unit.  Unfortunately, I don't have a tool to remove the nut.  Does anyone have some advice on making a tool to remove it?  It's already been munched up a little by a previous owner, so I need to be careful.  If anyone has an extra nut in good shape, I'd be mighty interested.  Oh, these are reverse threaded, I assume?
I also added a pic of the bike.  I have an Iver Johnson bicycle wrench hanging from strong magnets above the left side of the truss, comes in real handy.
Thanks,
-Scott


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## bud poe (May 31, 2012)

tailhole said:


> Hello,
> I need to remove this bottom bracket nut so I can rebuild and grease the unit.  Unfortunately, I don't have a tool to remove the nut.  Does anyone have some advice on making a tool to remove it?  It's already been munched up a little by a previous owner, so I need to be careful.  If anyone has an extra nut in good shape, I'd be mighty interested.  Oh, these are reverse threaded, I assume?
> I also added a pic of the bike.  I have an Iver Johnson bicycle wrench hanging from strong magnets above the left side of the truss, comes in real handy.
> Thanks,
> -Scott




Its a left handed nut, use a flat headed screwdriver and carefully rapp in a clockwise direction...I asked this same question here a while ago but unfortunately learned the hard way and stripped the nut...good luck!


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## tailhole (May 31, 2012)

*got it, now what?!*

Hi, I tried it (worked great! - took a picture for future cabers) and figured I could tap on the axle with a rubber mallet and the crank arm would pop off, but it didn't and I don't wanna force it if there is another step in the process - is there? Or just gently pry it off? Thanks for the tip too!
-Scott


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## okozzy (May 31, 2012)

*sounds similar*

http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?27753-How


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## tailhole (May 31, 2012)

*Thanks!*



okozzy said:


> http://thecabe.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?27753-How




Thanks for the link.  I read some of that last week, but didn't check up on the process.  I like your 2x4 idea.  I'll try that in the morning (or in about 10 minutes - I have a hard time leaving a wounded bike in my shop).  Thanks again.
-Scott


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## okozzy (Jun 1, 2012)

*Be carful*

Be careful, we never did find out what worked for "Coaster Brake"....... at the end, he never did tell us? 




tailhole said:


> Thanks for the link.  I read some of that last week, but didn't check up on the process.  I like your 2x4 idea.  I'll try that in the morning (or in about 10 minutes - I have a hard time leaving a wounded bike in my shop).  Thanks again.
> -Scott


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## Iverider (Jun 1, 2012)

I fashioned a tool for this process out of a large washer with a slightly larger inside diameter than the threaded part of the spindle. I created a C-shaped piece of metal by cutting the washer in half with whatever suitable cutting device you have be it a dremel, hack saw, angle grinder with cutting wheel, wit etc. make sure whatever you use, that you keep the ends you cut off a nice straight flat cut (so it'll seat in the slot of the nut) 

Then I clamped the half washer in a pair of vice grips allowing the two ends of the "C" shape to protrude from the edge of the vice grips just enough to fully seat in the crank nut. If too much of the washer is sticking out, it may bend unless you've somehow found tool steel washers.





Tool worked well and didn't gouge up the nut any more than it already was.

I'm thinking about welding a piece of rod to the washer to make a more permanent tool, but the vicegrips work fine as a handle for now.

By the way, can you take a photo of all of the components of your crank while you have it apart? Kind of an exploded view if you will.


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## okozzy (Jun 1, 2012)

*MagGyver?*

Should we call you MagGyver??? I'll snap a few pics later today.




Krautwaggen said:


> I fashioned a tool for this process out of a large washer with a slightly larger inside diameter than the threaded part of the spindle. I created a C-shaped piece of metal by cutting the washer in half with whatever suitable cutting device you have be it a dremel, hack saw, angle grinder with cutting wheel, wit etc. make sure whatever you use, that you keep the ends you cut off a nice straight flat cut (so it'll seat in the slot of the nut)
> 
> Then I clamped the half washer in a pair of vice grips allowing the two ends of the "C" shape to protrude from the edge of the vice grips just enough to fully seat in the crank nut. If too much of the washer is sticking out, it may bend unless you've somehow found tool steel washers.
> 
> ...


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## Iverider (Jun 1, 2012)

Ha...I feel that would be lessening the name!


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## okozzy (Jun 1, 2012)

*this is for a crescent bike*



Krautwaggen said:


> I fashioned a tool for this process out of a large washer with a slightly larger inside diameter than the threaded part of the spindle. I created a C-shaped piece of metal by cutting the washer in half with whatever suitable cutting device you have be it a dremel, hack saw, angle grinder with cutting wheel, wit etc. make sure whatever you use, that you keep the ends you cut off a nice straight flat cut (so it'll seat in the slot of the nut)
> Then I clamped the half washer in a pair of vice grips allowing the two ends of the "C" shape to protrude from the edge of the vice grips just enough to fully seat in the crank nut. If too much of the washer is sticking out, it may bend unless you've somehow found tool steel washers.
> 
> View attachment 53585
> ...




*I hope this helps...... notice, the driver side bearings cup is press fit and the non drive is threaded.*


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## Iverider (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks for posting that, but your crank has evolved 

That's not the same one as in the pictures above, but is it an Iver crank???


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## tailhole (Jun 1, 2012)

*still won't budge*

Been using the 2x4 method, smacking the axle as hard as I accurately can and it is being stubborn as an old mule. I'm gonna try a 2 clawed puller. Hope it goes back together without a glitch. And I will definately post detailed photos of the crank when I get it cracked open.
I really like that washer trick, gonna make one of those for the re-assembly.
Thanks for all the input.


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## tailhole (Jun 3, 2012)

Krautwaggen said:


> I fashioned a tool for this process out of a large washer with a slightly larger inside diameter than the threaded part of the spindle. I created a C-shaped piece of metal by cutting the washer in half with whatever suitable cutting device you have be it a dremel, hack saw, angle grinder with cutting wheel, wit etc. make sure whatever you use, that you keep the ends you cut off a nice straight flat cut (so it'll seat in the slot of the nut)
> 
> Then I clamped the half washer in a pair of vice grips allowing the two ends of the "C" shape to protrude from the edge of the vice grips just enough to fully seat in the crank nut. If too much of the washer is sticking out, it may bend unless you've somehow found tool steel washers.
> 
> ...




I finally was able to remove the crank arm,  I had to borrow a gear puller from a BMW motorcycle mechanic friend.  Worked great, still had to add some torch heat, came off with a loud pop.
I took a photo of the parts laid out in an exploded type view (it is laid out in the order of reassembly), it's pretty straight forward but I will give add a few notes for anyone trying to put one of these together....
No need to remove pedals for the removal or re-assembly
Slide the chain ring (number 2) back on axle crank (number 1) 
Install washer (number 3), it goes on between the chainring and the normal or right hand threaded bearing seat (number 4)
Bearing (number 5) is installed 'balls in' - the open part of the bearing cage is facing in toward the center of the bike
Bearing (number 6) is also installed 'balls in' in the left bearing race
Threaded bearing seat (number 7) is reverse or left hand threaded and should be tightened to the point of eliminating wiggle in the bottom bracket, but allowing the crank arm to swing freely
Washer (number 8) has an indexing tab to correspond to a notched groove in axle (number 1)
Nut (number 9) is also reverse or left hand threaded
When installing this nut (number 9) make sure the bottom bracket is still tight, but the crank arm can still swing freely.  
When installing crank arm (number 10) onto the tapered portion of axle (number 1) make sure it and the axle are completely free of grease and oil, otherwise, damage can be done when the arm slips up too much onto the axle
Nut (number 11) is also reverse or left hand threaded, I used the above washer-tool trick for the re-assembly and it worked great

I know this is dumbed down, but I'd rather go that route than assume everyone already knows these things.

Got it back together and went for a quick 3 mile spin around a local lake, worked perfect.  Smooth, quiet and fast.  This bike can really hump.
I appreciate all the help to get here and hope this helps future cabers down the road.


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## scrubbinrims (Jun 3, 2012)

Nice job, tackling those cranks was like organic chemistry for me a long time ago, you labor through it, but a requisite to graduating from IJ school.

These machines are very precise and well made... what you would expect from a firearms manufacturer.
That's why I am fond of them.

Enjoy, Chris


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## Iverider (Jun 3, 2012)

Same here! Thanks for the photo of the dissassembled crank. I don't seem to be missing any parts, but I've got some play in mine where the bolt-on crank arm interfaces the crank spindle. I'm trying to figure out if I can adjust it in any way, but it doesn't seem that there's a procedure for that.

I like the deep section rims you have on there too. Looks like a nice rider!! Well done. That seatpost gives me a laugh though. Reminds me of when I used to ride my higgins Jetflow around with 8 inches of seatpost showing!


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## bud poe (Jun 3, 2012)

*Krautwagon,
This is the same "play" I am dealing with correcting.  My machinist friend at work had a pretty good suggestion, if you don't mind modifying the bolt-on crank arm.  I have begun this procedure but have not finished yet....
So, if you have access to a milling machine, secure the crank arm in a vice or otherwise appropriate holding fixture with the BB side facing up (this should be the larger opening of the 3-sided tapered hole).  Dial in the contact surface as close as you can to parallel with the table of the machine.  With the crank arm secure, take maybe .010" off of the contact surface at a time and keep checking it's fit with the rest of the assembly until the tapered hole seats tightly on the tapered shaft.  You will now need to make a washer to go under the nut as you have reduced the thickness of the crank arm, the washer will take up the space and allow the nut to fully press the arm onto the spindle...
I have a pic from the milling process I will post to help explain what is happening as I realize it's difficult to visualize, but I think this should work...*


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## Iverider (Jun 3, 2012)

I like the looks of that procedure! Seems like it would cure the problem. Let us know how it ends up.


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## lobsterboyx (Jun 4, 2012)

krautwaggen... whats going on with your IJ's 

While we are on the topic, I pulled apart the bottom bracket on my truss bridge and re-assembled it, now the sprocket rubs the frame, I realized along the way that i forgot a very greasy washer - ill take a pic tomorrow. but I thought I was on the right track, but... i cant figure out where it goes, all my other IJ's do not have this washer part. 

also... my star sprocket is larger on that bike than it is my other boys iver motorbike. does this indicate a racing model?


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## Iverider (Jun 4, 2012)

My Iver's are collecting dust at the moment. I'm going to have a painting day sometime soon for my VW beetle suspension and I'm going to prime the truss frame at the same time. The Streamliner is going to be built as a round town "Klunker" It'll never see any hardcore singletrack and it'll probably have fenders.

Which greasy washer are you talking about? Is it #3 in the photo above? If this washer was missing, it would make sense that it's rubbing the frame.

As far as the chainwheel being larger than most, I don't think that denotes a specific racing model as gearing was available in many combinations as far as the catalogs are concerned. http://oldbike.wordpress.com/1917-iver-johnson-catalogue/

Also under "Special Racer" Special Racing hubs are shown as spec. I figure this means a track rear hub at the very least, while the Road Racer has a coaster brake. My truss frame also has a huge gear, which I believe is the equivalent of a 52t 1/2" pitch ring but it also had a 20t rear cog (in terms of inch pitch that would be 26t and 10t) That's a big ring, but a big cog as well so the gearing isn't really that high.


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## lobsterboyx (Jun 4, 2012)

I think its closest to part 3, its just funny because none of my other bikes have this part in the BB. 

I cant wait to see that klunker. I really wish i could have kept that bike, but time and money are two things i dont have a lot of. 

My sprocket is weird because the teeth are pointed... now usually that denotes wear but I thought it was a standard IJ size until i bought another mens sprocket and put it up next to it. the sprocket on my truss bridge is about an inch bigger in circumference. It made me think twice about replacing the sprockets. Ill have to count the teeth when i get home, but there is just something perplexing about it. Also, I know the girls sprockets are way smaller, ive had a few of those too including one for the lovell diamond. however my early lovell has a fauber special 1 piece setup but still retains threaded bearing cups... 

Id email bill, but i need some time to put together a coherent email rather than "yo whats up with these sprockets, chief"


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## Coaster Brake (Jun 9, 2012)

okozzy said:


> Be careful, we never did find out what worked for "Coaster Brake"....... at the end, he never did tell us?




Ha,
I knew I forgot to tie up a loose end somewhere... Sorry about that.
I finally clamped the whole mess in a vise and gave the crankshaft a good solid whack, sending the drive gear flying out the other side.


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