# European Bike



## Tall (Jan 1, 2022)

I saw this bike on a Facebook page that belonged to a man in Ireland.  I asked what he had and am waiting for a response.  I thought I would ask the group here if anyone recognizes it?  To me, the frame looks older than the wheelset and peddles, but I could be completely wrong.


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## Blue Streak (Jan 1, 2022)

Dursley Pedersen Bicycle - circa 1899-1917





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						Dursley Pedersen Bicycle Homepage - The ultimate site of Dursley Pedersen cycles
					






					www.dursley-pedersen.net


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## Tall (Jan 1, 2022)

Blue Streak said:


> Dursley Pedersen Bicycle - circa 1899-1917
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> ...



Wow, that was a quick ID.  Thanks Blue Streak.  Crazy cool bike


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## Schwinny (Jan 1, 2022)

There is one for sale here right now in the sale section.









						Sold - Dursley Pedersen 1910 Circa Cantilever Standard 3 -Speed Bicycle | Archive (sold)
					

Up for consideration is this rare antique 1910 circa Dursley Pedersen Cantilever Standard 3 speed bicycle... Condition Repainted at some point, Frame is straight... No visible cracks, damage or repair's... Bike has surface scratches / blemishes as well as cracks on hand grips, All parts appears...




					thecabe.com


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## Tall (Jan 1, 2022)

Schwinny said:


> There is one for sale here right now in the sale section.
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> 
> ...



Ah.  Thanks for sharing Schwinny!  A bit pricey


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## gkeep (Jan 1, 2022)

Here's a website with the history and lots of other references. I've met a few riders on modern ones here in the San Francisco Bay Area, https://www.dursley-pedersen.net/index.html.

Information on the modern Pedersens being produced. http://www.pedersenbicycles.com/specifications.htm.


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## Tall (Jan 1, 2022)

Wow, thats interesting.  Thanks gkeep!


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## bikejunk (Jan 1, 2022)

Tall said:


> Ah.  Thanks for sharing Schwinny!  A bit pricey



they still make a form of this bike today - the one you are saying g is a lot is kind of early and has the really rare multi speed hub -that you just never see - also the shipping from Europe will make you say GOSH


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## Tall (Jan 1, 2022)

bikejunk said:


> they still make a form of this bike today - the one you are saying g is a lot is kind of early and has the really rare multi speed hub -that you just never see - also the shipping from Europe will make you say GOSH



I am not interested in buying it.  I was interested in id'ing it.  The men and women of the CABE are terrific!  Thanks @bikejunk


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## Schwinny (Jan 1, 2022)

I notice that the newer one has the bars at the top of the..... whatever they call it. Whereas the one for sale here looks like the bars are down lower and you're gonna get a "whatever" in the eye.


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## Tall (Jan 1, 2022)

Schwinny said:


> I notice that the newer one has the bars at the top of the..... whatever they call it. Whereas the earlier ones look like the bars are down lower and you're gonna get a "whatever" in the eye.



I think the lower bars were considered the racing bikes


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## dnc1 (Jan 2, 2022)

The example in the original post looks to be a singlespeed example.
The Pedersen 3-speed hub is quite a distinctive beast and requires considerable wheel-lacing skills.....





...it's a layshaft type gearbox, not planetary gears as in a Sturmey Archer hub.

The bar positions actually vary quite considerably over the years they were in production.
Fun bikes to ride, but if you are a slightly heavier than normal rider the frames can flex a little bit when pushing hard uphill.
The saddle is very comfortable in use.
Here is my friend Bob's 1910 example that he was out riding with us just before Christmas.....








...you'll see that the bars are low-mounted, but more like mini 'apehangers' compared to some.


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## New Mexico Brant (Jan 2, 2022)

Here is the three speed version I own, it is a 1909 or 1910.


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## Huguenot (Jan 4, 2022)

Here are the two I have built from scratch, because they look cool and originals are hard to find. Both were built from pics I found on the web and scaled up. Tons of work, no existing fixture (or even work stand, for that matter) is adequate. While quite odd looking they are surprisingly comfortable to ride and mine actually gets used more than other bikes I own.
There was a 3 speed Pedersen hub sold on fleabay about 6 months back for $500 as a buy-it-now. Building a wheel will be challenging as there are a large number of different spoke lengths due to the oval-ish flanges.
Finding an original to ride will be difficult as there were at least 6 different frame sizes. Mine have about 3' of seat height adjustment but eventually the angle of the seat support strap becomes an issue. Someone above mentioned flex, something I have not noticed, in fact if anything these seem extra rigid to me.
The "patina" one is made from 5/8 (16mm) cromoly and the orange one from 1/2" (12mm).


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## dnc1 (Jan 5, 2022)

The construction of yours is slightly different to the originals which probably accounts for the lack of flexing, particularly around the top of the 'headstock' area; you can see this most clearly in Brant's final photo above. Your example has a more conventional headtube style.
Your brazing skills look pretty fantastic by the way. 
The originals were  built using a type of silver solder that melts at a relatively low temperature.
I have heard tales of these original frames falling apart when being put in a paint oven!
Much to an acquaintances annoyance.


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## Huguenot (Jan 5, 2022)

These were built from photos of the Copenhagen/Solling built bikes currently coming out of Denmark. Those frames use a unique design where the head tube has a flange welded along it's length and the down and mixtie tubes are flattened at their upper ends. All are then joined with a single bolt, which also supports the seat strap shackle. Clever, but in my view, ugly, and clear pics of originals that include these details are scarce.
A question for those of you familiar with originals regarding the junction of the seat stays and "brake bridge"junction. I have seen references that indicate this area is -not- brazed where they cross. In fact I was recently provided with a bootleg drawing of the Cech(?) manufactured version that includes a printed note that this is not to be connected. Can anyone confirm how this was done on an original frame? Seems that would have a direct bearing on stiffness as well. Mine are brazed here, it just seemed to make sense to do so.
Here is a pic of that head joint before brazing, the cross tube is for the strap attachment. It was a challenge to miter and the second frame just got a couple of ears brazed on in this location.
Thank you also for the kind words about brazing, btw.


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## dnc1 (Jan 5, 2022)

Hopefully Brant can provide you with a photo.
I'll ask my friend Bob too.
That would definitely account for the flexing!


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## dnc1 (Jan 5, 2022)

There is an article in 'Cycling' magazine of 1956 written by a member of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers that is a very technical study of all of the stresses imposed on all.parts of the frame under different riding conditions/situations. 
It does mention the importance of the rear 'wires' (that run down from the seat to the rear hub axle)  in resisting flexing/bending of the seat tubes.

Some of you may be aware of the famous image of Mr. and Mrs. Pedersen astride the tandem version of one of these machines,  but I wonder how many have seen the 'Quadruplet' track pacing version.
You can find an image of it by following the excellent link by @Blue Streak on the previous page of this thread to the "Dursley Pedersen Bicycle Homepage".
What a beast!


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## Huguenot (Jan 5, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> There is an article in 'Cycling' magazine of 1956 written by a member of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers that is a very technical study of all of the stresses imposed on all.parts of the frame under different riding conditions/situations.
> It does mention the importance of the rear 'wires' (that run down from the seat to the rear hub axle)  in resisting flexing/bending of the seat tubes.



The goal of the design seems to be that all loads are "straight-line", meaning all are either tension or compression with no bending moment. Rather elegant, but a real chore to produce in quantity and it was soon eclipsed by the diamond frame. 
The cables are one of the tension elements and look (again, I have only a few pics for reference) to have originally been very long spokes that engage in notches at the bottom bracket. A bit crude for my taste so I used aircraft cable and a turnbuckle-type of construction for size adjustment.
Looking forward to some input from those lucky enough to own an original one.
Also, I realize that vintage European bikes are a bit of an orphan here on the Cabe, but there are very few sites on the web that do discuss them which is why I am here. That home page referenced above has had several admins but zero updating in about 10 years.
At some point I hope to build a similar frame from wood, just for grins. 
Meanwhile, triangles galore...


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## dnc1 (Jan 5, 2022)

I would recommend that you join the V-CC here in the UK.
The Pedersen reference material alone would make it worth your while.
Here's a link:








						Join
					

Membership of the Club is open to anyone with an interest in cycle history. Although there is no obligation to take part in club events, or even to own a cycle, there are many advantages to be gain…




					v-cc.org.uk
				




The study guide with the article I mentioned above does mention that all of the tubes are in compression.


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## New Mexico Brant (Jan 5, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> Hopefully Brant can provide you with a photo.
> I'll ask my friend Bob too.
> That would definitely account for the flexing!



Sorry, mine was loaded yesterday and is heading to Santa Fe, New Mexico.  I can provide images next week.


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## New Mexico Brant (Jan 5, 2022)

dnc1 said:


> I would recommend that you join the V-CC here in the UK.
> The Pedersen reference material alone would make it worth your while.
> Here's a link:
> 
> ...



And if you are not already a member, please join the Facebook NVCC Dursley Pedersen group


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## Huguenot (Jan 8, 2022)

Thanks for the suggestions re: V-CC, I will look into that. 
As for the Faceborg group, I do realize I am missing out on a lot here but I still refuse to sign up or have anything to do with them. Cutting off my nose to spite my face...etc. -I get it, but IHMO the bad there outweighs the good.
Again, thanks to you both for the responses.


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