# Early 70's Motobecane Grand Record, Fresh Pick



## antque

Just bought this 70's Motobecane Grand Record form a picker who plucked it form a garage sale. The bike appears to be all original, Campy parts, Nervex lugs, 531 frame 7 fork,  bike is filthy dirty, Appears to be original tires, high flange Campy hubs, Any info on these bike would be appreciated, I'm a Schwinn person, but I couldn't pass this one up, Thanks for looking


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## bikecrazy

very nice bike that should clean up really well! Those bikes were very popular back in the day.


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## T-Mar

Motobecane Grand Record, 2nd from the top of the line. The main triangle is very desirable Reynolds 531 double butted tubing and it should have Campagnolo dropouts. Decals and head badge suggest pre-1974 while the combination of Weinmann brakes and Reynolds 531 forks suggest post 1970. So, it would appear to be circa 1971-1973. Motobecane appears to have used a sequential serial number format, with no year indicator, however based on the samples in my database we still be able to narrow it down. The rear derailleur should also have a patent date adjacent to the cable housing recess, which should be close to the build date.

This model was marketed as a upscale touring model but that was mainly due to the presence of clincher wheelset as opposed to tubulars. However those look like they may be tubular wheels, which would at least explain the atypical Campagnolo Tipo hubset. 

It's a nice model on the cusp between mid-range and high end and appears to be in good shape for it's age. The problem is that it also brings the idosyncrasies associated with French bicycles of the era. Stems and posts are slightly undersize compared to most lighweights. Most threading will be French. French sized/threaded replacement parts can harder to find and more expensive. The Stronglight crankset has a proprietary extractor threading and requires the proper remover. Aftermarket ones are still available but quite expensive. Still, this is a very desirable model and, for most owners, warrants the extra effort associate with the French heritage. Congratulations, it's a nice acquisition.


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## bulldog1935

those bikes are still popular, especially for building up rando bikes.  It's a great find and will make a sweet ride. Panaracer Paselas are very good 27" clinchers, available in 1", 1-1/8" or 1-1/4".  Probably all you need to do is service the bearings and replace the tires.  
yes, the crank threads are 23.35mm and people offering crank puller tools on ebay want about $100 for them (a couple are currently listed).  Otherwise, I don't see you need much for parts.  
Between this forum and CR, you might be able to find someone who will let you borrow one with a deposit.  

Sheldon has the details on French threading
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/velos.html
You can really improve those brakes by replacing the pads with Kool Stop Dura cartridges (based on my 40 years of high-load Weinmann use)


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## T-Mar

bulldog1935 said:


> ... Panaracer Paselas are very good 27" clinchers, available in 1", 1-1/8" or 1-1/4".  Probably all you need to do is service the bearings and replace the tires....
> yes, the crank threads are 23.35mm and people offering crank puller tools on ebay want about $100 for them...




Except that those may not be clinchers on the bicycle.  It appears that a previous owner may have converted from the OEM clinchers, as those look like Clement  tubular tires on Fiamme red label tubular rims. (Hence, the Campagnolo Tipo hubs versus the typical Normandy). Plus, the brake pads appear to be sitting lower than normal in the mounting slots, which would be indicative of the 4mm smaller bead seat radius of tubulars versus 27"clinchers. So, the owner may also have the decision of whether he wants the immediate expense of converting to an OEM clincher style wheelset or put up with the long term expense and relative fragility of tubulars. Given that THE owner is a Schwinn person, he may find the tubular experience to be frustrating, unless he's familiar with Paramounts.

As for Stronglight crank pullers, there is a far cheaper, though still expensive option. J.A. Stein manufactures Stronglight and TA pullers. You can purchase them through several mail order shops, such as Velo-Orange, for about $55.00 US.


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## bulldog1935

that is one hell of a lot of extrapolation - did THE owner ask you to speak for him?
when others are trying to be helpful, you're out of line to take exception with them


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## T-Mar

bulldog1935 said:


> that is one hell of a lot of extrapolation - did THE owner ask you to speak for him?
> when others are trying to be helpful, you're out of line to take exception with them




Sorry if you feel offended, but I do not feel it was out of line. I'm stating my opinion based on what I'm seeing. For the OP's sake I'd like to be wrong, but I think a cautionary note to further investigate the wheelset is warranted and proper.


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## antque

Thanks for all the response and information, T-Mar was not offensive and I appreciate all the good information and I agree about the wheels, after doing some research these wheels were not stock on this bike when ordered, this is the first French made bike I have come across and I'm learning, all information and discussion is welcome, thanks again everyone for your input


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## GiovanniLiCalsi

I have Fiamme red and yellow label sew-up tire rims on my 1971 Raleigh International.
Great rims! I would love to have an extra set.
The new tubular(sew-ups, in 1970's lingo)tires are really bullet-proof, with Kevlar construction.
All of the new carbon fiber rim business has caused a revival, to be sure....


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## antque

just checked and the rims are Fiamme red and yellow label tubular, with campy high flange hubs, I don't think these were  stock with the bike when made unless it was special ordered.


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## bulldog1935

T-Mar said:


> Sorry if you feel offended, but I do not feel it was out of line. I'm stating my opinion based on what I'm seeing. For the OP's sake I'd like to be wrong, but I think a cautionary note to further investigate the wheelset is warranted and proper.




then post your opinion, but leave me out of it  
I'm sure the owner can identify his wheel type - he can do it a lot better than you can do guessing from where you are.  
my post was for him, and never for you.  
_______

tubie rims are always 700c and there are a lot of tires being made today that are better than what you could buy then, and with careful shopping, you can find great tires for a reasonable price.   



 

That said, a 27-inch or a 700c clincher wheelset is a lot more practical if you plan to ride the bike a lot.  

Otherwise, you have to start by learning to clean rims  (several hours with solvent and many rags)




However, the ride quality of good tubulars for many of us make up for the trouble of learning to glue them.  
(still nice to have a clincher wheelset sitting around to swap)
There is also an easy flat kit that will get you home from a flat - a 2-oz bottle of Stan's plus 1/4-oz bottle of Zap-a-gap, and a valve core tool 
note that also requires removable valve cores, which are typical of higher-grade tires

the good news is it's not difficult to find a reasonably priced clincher wheelset with 120mm rear axle spacing, which will take a comparable freewheel.  
most new pre-built clincher wheelsets with that rear axle spacing and taking a 5-speed freewheel are going to be 27 inch (which would get you back to Panaracer tires).  
Most trouble and expense with best result would probably be building up a 700c clincher wheelset, because of the big range of modern tires available.


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## GiovanniLiCalsi

Perhaps if your message was only for him, you could have sent him a personal message, instead of telling everyone else, on the forum....


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## highwheel431

I purchased one of these new in 1972 or 73, I can't remember which anymore, but I would say most likely 72.  They came standard with clincher wheels and tires.  The hubs were Normandy but I can't remember if it had French rims.  For some reason Weinmann sticks out in my mind.  The bike was not totally French.  The tubing was Reynolds (English). Derailleurs and shifters Campagnolo (Italian) and brakes Weinmann (Swiss).


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## schwinnderella

T-Mar said:


> Sorry if you feel offended, but I do not feel it was out of line. I'm stating my opinion based on what I'm seeing. For the OP's sake I'd like to be wrong, but I think a cautionary note to further investigate the wheelset is warranted and proper.




T-Mar was not out of line at all, he can express his opinion just as everyone else can.
By the way if this is the same T-mar who used to post on the bike forums and I believe it is, he is very knowledgeable and would be a valuable asset to this forum. Let's not chase him off !


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## bikecrazy

Cleaning old glue off tubular rims goes a lot faster if you use a dull butter knife as a scraper.


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## Gasbag

schwinnderella said:


> T-Mar was not out of line at all, he can express his opinion just as everyone else can.
> By the way if this is the same T-mar who used to post on the bike forums and I believe it is, he is very knowledgeable and would be a valuable asset to this forum. Let's not chase him off !




I'll second that. If this is the one and same T-Mar from Bike Forums he is encyclopedic in bicycle knowledge and a very welcome addition to The Cabe. T-Mar has helped me in so many ways just from reading through old threads he has responded to.


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