# Hey Flying Merkel Guys! Time to get the Big Boy Wallet out!!!



## fordmike65 (Oct 3, 2018)

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5335809022&icep_item=183464119743


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Oct 3, 2018)

that is a bunch of money.


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## Jay81 (Oct 3, 2018)

Wow! :eek:


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## scrubbinrims (Oct 3, 2018)

I like them, just don't get the collector valuations at all.
And I say that regarding the other motorcycle branded bikes too, but what do I know, I am attracted to design and not a brand affiliation.
It's an orange teens motorbike...cool.
Chris


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## Frank and Pam Skid Kings (Oct 3, 2018)

Really nice, but so is $13,000 !


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## fordmike65 (Oct 3, 2018)

Oh Shawn(@Freqman1 ).....where are you.....


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## hoofhearted (Oct 3, 2018)

[QUOTE="49autocycledeluxe, post: 936324, member: 77294

that is a bunch of money.[/QUOTE]

*That IS a bunch of money.*

*But, it's priced no higher than some desirable sheet-
metal machines from the '30's and '40's.*

*And , if this F-M is something you really like .. you 
may put into play action that ends in ownership.*

*The authentic F-M bicycle will never be seen in droves.*

*Can't say the same is true for the loaded ballooner 
of a particular year.*

*Look ... i'll suggest a year ... you mentally. fill in the sheet-
metal machine, that asks the kind of cheese that comes 
close .. matches .. or exceeds the price of the machine
featured in this thread.     ...... Ready ?*

*1935 *

*1936*

*1937*

*1938*

*1939*

*1940*

*1941*

*Now consider how many of the particular sheet-metal
marques are out there.  *

*Yeah .. I know ... those pre-streamline bikes are as 
ugly as a hickey on a hemorhoid .  **This may be true for *
*some of us ... not everyone really enjoys the pre-streamline*
*bicycle.*

*In this instance, the F-M bicycle is an extension to a legendary
motorcycle, in it's day.  *

*Some day .. as your interest grows .. you may come around to 
reading some history of the design and behaviors of the Flying Merkel Motorcycle.*

*In addition .. this ebay example was built during. the time period
that the F-M motorcycle was being produced.*

*There will never be a time when a multitude of fellow CABErs
own F-M bicycles.   These machines are just not ''out there'' in
the way some bicycles are.*

*But I would bet .. that I can score any loaded sheet-metal machine
built between 1935 and 1941 ... dialing no more than three different
fone numbers.*

*I could be wrong.*

*..... patric*


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## kccomet (Oct 3, 2018)

I'm with scrubbinrims, I don't get the valuation on these bikes, indian, harley, included. would I like to have this bike...he'll yea. I get the motorcycle cross over. I'm not a cheap buyer but.... it is a very cool bike


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## bricycle (Oct 3, 2018)

Nice bike with solid rubber tires?


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## Freqman1 (Oct 3, 2018)

That was Vaughan's bike. Looks like someone may have bought it and trying to flip it for a chunk-o-change. Here is mine and his together at MLC last year. V/r Shawn


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## Freqman1 (Oct 3, 2018)

scrubbinrims said:


> I like them, just don't get the collector valuations at all.
> And I say that regarding the other motorcycle branded bikes too, but what do I know, I am attracted to design and not a brand affiliation.
> It's an orange teens motorbike...cool.
> Chris




Anytime you have a cross over item you are going to get action from two or more camps. That is what happens with the motorcycle related bicycles as well as bikes like the Donald Duck-Disney collectors. Patric kinda hit on something that is important too. There are stamp collectors and there are philatelists. The difference between the two is one is just after filling spaces in an album and the other studies the material as well as collects it. We don't have a word for that in bicycle collecting but some are just happy to have a cool bike to ride or look at and don't care too much about who made it, how many, different options, period of production, etc... . Those that value the history and affiliations have a much different appreciation and are willing to pay for that. Jus my 2c. V/r Shawn  @hoofhearted @cyclingday


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## hoofhearted (Oct 3, 2018)

Freqman1 said:


> Anytime you have a cross over item you are going to get action from two or more camps. That is what happens with the motorcycle related bicycles as well as bikes like the Donald Duck-Disney collectors. Patric kinda hit on something that is important too. There are stamp collectors and there are philatelists. The difference between the two is one is just after filling spaces in an album and the other studies the material as well as collects it. We don't have a word for that in bicycle collecting but some are just happy to have a cool bike to ride and don't care too much about who made it, how many, different options, period of production, etc... . Those that value the history and affiliations have a much different appreciation and are willing to pay for that. Jus my 2c. V/r Shawn  @hoofhearted @cyclingday





*Well said, Shawn.*

*In addition ... to the numerous camps of bicycle collectors ... that is .. 
those just wanting a cool bike .. and those that study a marque and
collect variations within the marque ...... there are those that collect
by era ... those that collect by ''type'' (racing vs motorbike, etc) ... 
those that collect to flip at a modest profit  ... and those that collect 
only from a single manufacturer.  *

*Bet you can come up with a variation of your own.*

*There is nothing wrong with the ideology in any of these camps.*

*Am happy there are numerous reasons ''why'' a bicycle ''hunter-
gatherer'' is willing to go to those places where a bicycle might be ...
nose out the relic ... and negotiate with the owner to purchase.*

*If this were never done ... each of us would be very-limited in
what we now call ''my collection''.*

*..... patric*


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## Autocycleplane (Oct 3, 2018)

Freqman1 said:


> Anytime you have a cross over item you are going to get action from two or more camps. That is what happens with the motorcycle related bicycles as well as bikes like the Donald Duck-Disney collectors. Patric kinda hit on something that is important too. There are stamp collectors and there are philatelists. The difference between the two is one is just after filling spaces in an album and the other studies the material as well as collects it. We don't have a word for that in bicycle collecting but some are just happy to have a cool bike to ride or look at and don't care too much about who made it, how many, different options, period of production, etc... . Those that value the history and affiliations have a much different appreciation and are willing to pay for that. Jus my 2c. V/r Shawn  @hoofhearted @cyclingday




Well put - this is pretty much the hobby progression is it not? Some may choose never to progress to the knowledge level that some of you on this thread and forum have attained, but many others eventually will over the years. I don't think many hobbyists go "all in" and start buying Merkels and the like from the start. Others like me have incomplete knowledge and/or limited interests despite being around old bikes long enough to know much more than we do. I don't have much time to "pick" for bikes and don't particularly enjoy selling/flipping so what's the point of learning about stuff I don't want to keep. (Plus I have @Dave K right up the road and that dude finds everything local first, hah.)

Although interesting for the value and discussion here, this bike is not my cup of tea. But I also don't have much interest in early motorcycles either so there you go. If that thing didn't say F-M or similar somewhere on it for me to know the potential value then I wouldn't think it was anything special or valuable because of ignorance and personal taste. I bet I'm not alone in that assessment. 

P.S. - the values of these F-Ms seem completely sane compared to the Cooks Bros BMX seatpost clamp......


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## 49autocycledeluxe (Oct 3, 2018)

hoofhearted said:


> [QUOTE="49autocycledeluxe, post: 936324, member: 77294
> 
> that is a bunch of money.




*That IS a bunch of money.*

*Yeah .. I know ... those pre-streamline bikes are as 
ugly as a hickey on a hemorhoid .  **This may be true for *
*some of us ... not everyone really enjoys the pre-streamline*
*bicycle.*

*I could be wrong.*

*..... patric*[/QUOTE]

the big difference between a 30's car and this bike is that there are many many many equally cool old bikes that are less than $1,000.00 that look and ride pretty much the same. 

I don't think these bikes are ugly, I like them and would like to have a bike in this style someday. I think people pay too much for a great many ballooners as well.

how much would that bike have sold for 10 or 20 years ago?


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## hoofhearted (Oct 3, 2018)

49autocycledeluxe said:


> I don't think these bikes are ugly, I like them and would like to have a bike in this style someday. I think people pay too much for a great many ballooners as well.
> 
> how much would that bike have sold for 10 or 20 years ago?





*Before I start ... there is a decent Miami / F-M thread on the CABE ... *
*Anyone here have a Miami / Flying Merkel Bicycle ?** ............About 37 pages ......*

_*49autocycledeluxe ... *_*10 or 20 years ago, F-M's were mostly unheard of.*

*Did have the opportunity to purchase an original 1912 by way of CABEr ...*
@bike* ... right around 1997.  *

*At the risk of being seen as a braggadocio ... I am posting a few pics ......
The saddle chassis is wrong .. as is the chainring.  I do have the proper
parts to do a correction.*

*1997 .... Five-Thousand Simoleons and a choice Hendee Indian badge.
(the tall one).*

*..... patric*


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*Got this design chainring from CABEr, bike, maybe ten years ago ... it has 30 teeth.*



*In addition, I own a 1917 / 1918 F-M ... have not placed a value on it ... fotos below .....*

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## Freqman1 (Oct 3, 2018)

Most people either miss, or are unaware of, the "Articles" tab at the top of the page. Here is a heap-o-info for those wanting to learn more about the Flying Merkel bicycles  https://thecabe.com/forum/pages/the_flying_merkel_bicycle/  V/r Shawn


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## hoofhearted (Oct 3, 2018)

*Your research ... Shawn ... The Flying Merkel Bicycle --  An Evolving Study*

*..........................PRICELESS !! *

..... patric


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## scrubbinrims (Oct 4, 2018)

I get the crossover appeal and the demand it plays in the equation as well as the more avid historical fan that is willing to pay more having a comprehensive context.
What I don't get is why this FM is worth 8-10 times more than basically the same motorbike design as it's counterpart because of the name.
Are collectors actually paying this kind of dough for these or are we debating asking prices?
FM motorcycle were made (or largely assembled) by FM and these bicycles were outsourced from various manufacturers to sell in the FM motorcycle shops...why not get a sale from someone who isn't old enough to ride or afford the real thing? 
Chris


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## Freqman1 (Oct 4, 2018)

I would offer that a comparable HD or Indian will bring 8-10 times (or more) than its Davis or Westfield kin as well. I'm not saying what I paid for mine but I did step up to get it. Like Patric said I can make a phone call, write a check, and get a full boogie Autocycle, Bluebird, Aerocycle, Speedline, etc... . These have an almost cult like following. I'm surprised that bike is still available. V/r Shawn


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## cyclingday (Oct 4, 2018)

It's all about the pedigree.


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## mickeyc (Oct 4, 2018)

Here's my take on this subject...maybe a bit off but pertinent I think.  If not...forget I said anything!
I worked with a couple of guys that went out and bought their wives new cars.  One bought his wife a Lincoln Versailles (1980).  I took one look at it and could immediately see it was a Ford Grenada- Mercury Monarch with a facelift.  However the cost was not in that ballpark at all.  Think he paid around $11,000 for it.  "But it's a Lincoln!"  
Couple of years later (1982) another guy buys HIS wife a Cadillac Cimarron,  OMG.....a not EVEN a glorified Chevy Cavalier at probably twice the price.  "But she wanted a Cadillac and this was the right size.".
I guess my point is if you want to buy a name, fine, but as far as I am concerned a Flying Merkle is no different than a same year Columbia as far as rideability, looks, etc.  Buying it for the "history" of it, OK, just not for me.

Mike


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## Oldnut (Oct 4, 2018)

hoofhearted said:


> *Before I start ... there is a decent Miami / F-M thread on the CABE ... *
> *Anyone here have a Miami / Flying Merkel Bicycle ?** ............About 37 pages ......*
> 
> _*49autocycledeluxe ... *_*10 or 20 years ago, F-M's were mostly unheard of.*
> ...



I like that last set of photos hmm memory serves ha


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## hoofhearted (Oct 4, 2018)

Oldnut said:


> I like that last set of photos hmm memory serves ha





*Oldnut,,snapped the foto of my '17 / '18 F-M 
b-tracker at Links and Kinks Swap .. Summer
of 2014.  Thank you Ronnie !!*

*..... patric*


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## hoofhearted (Oct 5, 2018)

scrubbinrims said:


> FM motorcycle were made (or largely assembled) by FM and these bicycles were outsourced from various manufacturers to sell in the FM motorcycle shops...why not get a sale from someone who isn't old enough to ride or afford the real thing?
> 
> Chris




@scrubbinrims


*Chris ... can you support your proclamation with
some follow-up information ?*

*Also .. I do not understand your meaning in, ''why not 
get a sale from someone who isn't old enough to ride 
or afford the real thing?''*

*Thank you ...*

..... patric


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## Oldnut (Oct 6, 2018)

hoofhearted said:


> *Oldnut,,snapped the foto of my '17 / '18 F-M
> b-tracker at Links and Kinks Swap .. Summer
> of 2014.  Thank you Ronnie !!*
> 
> *..... patric*



2014 time flys wow


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## fattyre (Oct 6, 2018)

Great patina.   Those tires could use a little weathering though, its like staring at the sun.


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## bobcycles (Oct 6, 2018)

scrubbinrims said:


> I like them, just don't get the collector valuations at all.
> And I say that regarding the other motorcycle branded bikes too, but what do I know, I am attracted to design and not a brand affiliation.
> It's an orange teens motorbike...cool.
> Chris





Agreed!  Boring teens-20s frame design and accessorizing... crazy prices for bikes that all look the same...
It's good that this stuff is collectible and significant....but when I see an auction like this and that bicycle?
I just gotta say....Realllllly?
Best bikes in the world....1934-41 US made streamlined 2 wheeled machines
Period
End of story...


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## OldSkipTooth (Oct 6, 2018)

Why is every Schwinn “Phantom” Nowadays automatically $1500 and up, even when it’s missing parts, Frankensteined, or a rust bucket? I think it’s the mystique of “Phantom”. Likewise, “ Flying Merkel” has a mystique, albeit different, but it gets people interested, and the association with board track racing adds to it all I think.
Also, for 10k you gotta have better detailed pictures, theres not even a straight pic of the head tube.


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