Westfield Columbia G519 Frame Numbers

[Mercian]

Dear All,

Below is the Version 1 of the Westfield Columbia G519 list. This is a twin with the previously published Huffman Dayton G519 list below:

http://thecabe.com/forum/threads/huffman-dayton-g519-frame-numbers.100336/

As before, I wold like to take the opportunity to thank those who have shared longer or shorter lists, which combined with my own make up the work here. I have had several very interesting conversations with these good people during the course of this research.

Notation: Most of the information has been taken from the internet, and other person's lists. This means that it was not always possible to get all the details of a bike; As a result, where it was not posssible to see a feature, or it was not reported, then I have put N/K (Not Known) even when it should be obvious what that feature is.

So, if your bike is listed, and has N/K fields and you would like me to add further information, or, if you would like me to correct the information, or, if your bike is not listed, and you would like me to add it, please answer below, or PM.

We still do not have a verified MF serial bike, if you have one it would be great. Currently, with 70 bikes listed, we have around 0.1%, or 1 in 1000 G519 bikes, so this is perhaps not surprising.

There should be a follow up version, shortly.

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

[Mercian]

So, a few conclusions at this point, based on this and the longer Westfield list I'm compiling.

- The BBFrame Numbernumber is the Year/month code for the frame manufacture.

H = 1941
J = 1942
K = 1943
L = 1944

- Because the Serial Number year blocks from Mr Columbia sometimes show BB Frame Numbers from November and December of the previous year, at the beginning of the next year, it took at this point 4 to 8 weeks for a frame to be processed to a point that the Serial Number was stamped on it (this was even longer and more random before 1940 with smaller sales and a larger model range).

- I'm unsure when the Serial Numbers were stmped. I thought when the bike was finished, but that makes no sense, since the frame is painted after the numbers are applied, so at some point during the fit up process.

- Bikes were not numbered in large blocks, this is more obvious in a list including civilian models, but, for example, MG154118 (coincidentally, mine) sits in a block of otherwise Women's bikes. It makes no sense for a production line to stock all the parts necessary to fit up a womens, and then a man's bike, so I'm guessing more than one line, each specialising in a model, but the serial numbers are stamped before they go for final fit up. Perhaps just before painting (the paint shop would not be worried about the different models).

- I would still like to know why the 'Sweetheart' chainring came in, I tought it was just late production, but then in 1944, they go back to Coffin chainrings for the late MC and MG bikes.

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

[MrColumbia]

When I worked there the serial numbers were stamped just before the frame went into the enamel department to be painted. They went straight from the stamping machine to the marshaling area where the frames go hung on the paint line.

I assume but don't know for sure that the process was the same years earlier. Of course the Letter/number code was not used when I was there so that could have been put on before the crank hanger was even welded to the rest of the frame.

 

[johan willaert]

Adrian,

MG138969 has a K6 code, which matches the others just above or below...

 

[johan willaert]

I owned the this bicycle below in the mid-90s....

I bought it as shown below from a Dutch seller at the British War&Peace show in 1997... He had imported it from the US.

This bike had a Columbia headbadge and an MF serial number, and was fitted with balloon tires on two different rims with narrow spokes and New Departure hubs...
Don't know if the number was genuine, or if it was a real Columbia or even a Military model...
I sold this one around 2002 when I found my first MG model and had too many doubts about it...

As this was in pre-digital times I don't have many pictures of this bike and I will look in my old photo boxes to see if I can find more...

 

[Mercian]

Hi Mr Columbia and Johan,

thanks for the additional information.

I would like to know the conclusions about this 'MF', which you were both involved with during the discussion, but there seems to have been no conclusion.

http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=200509

Please PM me if you would like to comment privately.

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

[Wackiforkhaki]

Hello, I have MG48766

Curved, Morrow, Coffin

 

[Mercian]

Hi Wackiforkhaki.

Thank you for your contribution, I've updated the list ready for the next publication.

It's interesting that it's exactly 300 off this one, so would be very similar:

http://www.bergerwerke.com/restorationG519.html

Do you know what the BB code is? J3 or J4 at a guess?

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

[Wackiforkhaki]

Hi Wackiforkhaki.

Thank you for your contribution, I've updated the list ready for the next publication.

It's interesting that it's exactly 300 off this one, so would be very similar:

http://www.bergerwerke.com/restorationG519.html

Do you know what the BB code is? J3 or J4 at a guess?

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

[Wackiforkhaki]

Where do I find the BB code?