Identifying my Gambles Hiawatha

[Gearhead Kevin]

I got this Hiawatha out of a scrap pile and I can't get much traction pinning down which model it is, when it was made, or even which of the manufacturers made this bike for Gambles. I have searched and read all afternoon without learning much.

First, I apologize for a cluttered picture. I will get it outside for some better pictures tomorrow if needed.

Serial number is on the left rear dropout. No numbers under the bottom bracket.

Headbadge is faded but it's still legible enough to see that it's a Gambles Hiawatha.

Both front and rear fenders have a peaked profile rather than the typical round. Kind of neat.

I would appreciate any input that anyone could offer. I know that several different manufacturers served Gambles with their bikes over the years. I have about wore myself out with Google image searches today.

 

[ian]

Maybe AMF? Looks similar to a Skyrider I had a while back. Early '60's. I see a Komet Super hub. Or maybe Murray built.

 

[Oilit]

Definitely AMF. I believe the "M" serials were 1962. "J" - 1959, "K" - 1960 and so on up until 1963, when they evidently started using more than one letter per year.

 

[Gearhead Kevin]

Thank you both for the replies. I just googled 1962 AMF bicycles and it does appear to be a dead ringer for an AMF Western Flyer.

The sprocket and chain guard are both pretty recognizable.

 

[NBHAA]

What you actually have there is a 1963 Hiawatha made under contract as a private label for Gamble's stores and others. The "N" prefix was NOT used for AMF house brand bicycles like Roadmaster. It may look similar to a photo of some other bicycle found online, but this does not mean it is the same year.

Now the DIY-guess logic says to go by alphabetic order... and if it looks like a Roadmaster... it must be the same as a Roadmaster. Right? Wrong. And just because AMF Roadmasters don't appear to have certain letters in the masterfully done DIY serial number lists, this does not mean that AMF somehow boycotted these numbers or letter prefixes.

One needs to understand that private label serial number records are not always the same as house-brand serial number records. This would not be such a mystery if folks in the hobby would abandon the notion of thinking all bicycles made by a certain manufacturer, MUST somehow have the exact same numbering and ID system. I can assure you... they don't.

Hiawatha records DO exist. At National Bicycle History Archive of America. Had we been allowed to publish the bicycle book we had ready to go in 1982, this information would have been in there.

Leon Dixon
National Bicycle History Archive of America

 

[Oilit]

What you actually have there is a 1963 Hiawatha made under contract as a private label for Gamble's stores and others. The "N" prefix was NOT used for AMF house brand bicycles like Roadmaster. It may look similar to a photo of some other bicycle found online, but this does not mean it is the same year.

Now the DIY-guess logic says to go by alphabetic order... and if it looks like a Roadmaster... it must be the same as a Roadmaster. Right? Wrong. And just because AMF Roadmasters don't appear to have certain letters in the masterfully done DIY serial number lists, this does not mean that AMF somehow boycotted these numbers or letter prefixes.

One needs to understand that private label serial number records are not always the same as house-brand serial number records. This would not be such a mystery if folks in the hobby would abandon the notion of thinking all bicycles made by a certain manufacturer, MUST somehow have the exact same numbering and ID system. I can assure you... they don't.

Hiawatha records DO exist. At National Bicycle History Archive of America. Had we been allowed to publish the bicycle book we had ready to go in 1982, this information would have been in there.

Leon Dixon
National Bicycle History Archive of America

So an AMF with an "N" prefix was sold under another badge? I hadn't considered that possibility!

 

[Michigan Picker]

What you actually have there is a 1963 Hiawatha made under contract as a private label for Gamble's stores and others. The "N" prefix was NOT used for AMF house brand bicycles like Roadmaster. It may look similar to a photo of some other bicycle found online, but this does not mean it is the same year.

Now the DIY-guess logic says to go by alphabetic order... and if it looks like a Roadmaster... it must be the same as a Roadmaster. Right? Wrong. And just because AMF Roadmasters don't appear to have certain letters in the masterfully done DIY serial number lists, this does not mean that AMF somehow boycotted these numbers or letter prefixes.

One needs to understand that private label serial number records are not always the same as house-brand serial number records. This would not be such a mystery if folks in the hobby would abandon the notion of thinking all bicycles made by a certain manufacturer, MUST somehow have the exact same numbering and ID system. I can assure you... they don't.

Hiawatha records DO exist. At National Bicycle History Archive of America. Had we been allowed to publish the bicycle book we had ready to go in 1982, this information would have been in there.

Leon Dixon
National Bicycle History Archive of America

Why weren't you able to publish your book?

 

[NBHAA]

That is a very good question. My book was ready to go at the end of the 1970s. Back when nobody knew what a "Classic Bicycle" was... and there were no swap meets all over the country and internet. Why would a publisher lie to me and tell me they were not interested in doing anything but automotive books (yes, I still have the letter dated 1982)? And then 14 years later that same company published a bicycle book by someone obviously imitating me? Someone who had no collection, no archive, no writing experience, and no serious knowledge? A book talking about "classic bicycles" (a genre I established and first coined and copyrighted)... yet not even mention me? And then go on to publish many more on the same genre? WHY?

By the way... MY book was a real book with real history, real facts and real original photos no one has ever seen. Not repetitions of things I wrote years earlier or communal guesses, or Xerox copies of catalogues done at Kinko's.

Yes. A very good question to ask.

 

[Adamtinkerer]

That is a very good question. My book was ready to go at the end of the 1970s. Back when nobody knew what a "Classic Bicycle" was... and there were no swap meets all over the country and internet. Why would a publisher lie to me and tell me they were not interested in doing anything but automotive books (yes, I still have the letter dated 1982)? And then 14 years later that same company published a bicycle book by someone obviously imitating me? Someone who had no collection, no archive, no writing experience, and no serious knowledge? A book talking about "classic bicycles" (a genre I established and first coined and copyrighted)... yet not even mention me? And then go on to publish many more on the same genre? WHY?

By the way... MY book was a real book with real history, real facts and real original photos no one has ever seen. Not repetitions of things I wrote years earlier or communal guesses, or Xerox copies of catalogues done at Kinko's.

Yes. A very good question to ask.

I wonder if you would consider publishing it through the Cabe bookstore? I know Scott and co. have done a great job with the old NBJ books, replacing the grainy photocopies with original scanned ads. I, for one, would love to have accurate information! Also, I don't know if you have a plan for the future, regarding the NBHAA archives. I'd hope all the hard work put into acquiring such a large quantity of information would be saved in some way.

 

[NBHAA]

I wonder if you would consider publishing it through the Cabe bookstore? I know Scott and co. have done a great job with the old NBJ books, replacing the grainy photocopies with original scanned ads. I, for one, would love to have accurate information! Also, I don't know if you have a plan for the future, regarding the NBHAA archives. I'd hope all the hard work put into acquiring such a large quantity of information would be saved in some way.

CABE owner has done a magnificent job of cleaning up and continually revising all of the Xerox-copy "books" that were around in the hobby. The level of appearance and content has also been very much elevated... especially some cases where the original thingies were so horrifically b-a-d.

For instance, the original Colson "book" was a nice compendium done by Hal Bruce. No guessing and no dreamed-up "information" and connection and years. But that work has been completely forgotten and was not repopped by CABE. Instead came the "book" by the source you describe... with incredible "lists" and just ...well? Wow. SO? It had to be revised and revised and revised and revised and revised. I have purchased revisions... so yes, "great job"... kudos.

MY book? Thanks... but we're talking apples and oranges here. The NBJ thingies you refer to were not "books"... they were Kinko-style home-grown compendiums of brochures and printed matter done on photocopy machines. The originals were "written" either by consensus/communal guessing and gabbing... or by parroting something that someone else said and not crediting them. Like the business of "Monarch vs. Monark" lifted from old CBWN newsletters and presentations done at my old Balloonatic events. And other such stuff. I have the originals and they were the reason why the internet chat acronym "ROFLOL" was coined. So yes, CABE has done a great job revising this stuff. Kudos again.

If you have the original "J.C. Higgins...book" look at page 100... which claims to be THE "J.C. Higgins 100" model... which is total fiction. And then there is the statement that found its way in there about different Sears catalogue variations for different regions of the country– how and why. Guess where that came from?

When I say "book"... I really do mean BOOK... like you used to find in a good library or Barnes & Noble store. With real history and facts and photos. And not pics of Arkwar Farkwar's bike in a swap meet someplace. Or Vintar Peequar's garage with his "board track racer springer tribute" he built. Or bad copies of catalogue pages with mis-identified captions or no captions at all. Or some postwar thingie labeled the customary, "prewar"...

As for "plan regarding the future" for National Bicycle History Archive of America? Well...that's a tough one, huh? A few hundred of my bicycles including a prototype Bowden "300" and my J.C. Higgins "100" collection were stolen 22 years ago. This theft along with thousands and thousands of parts and all of my big parts cabinets (Schwinn, Higgins, Murray, New Departure, Morrow, Bendix, Musselman– and more). Most of my display hub collection was stolen (including EVERY Musselman hub and system ever made) were taken. A gold-plated New Departure Model D cutaway given to me by a president of a company was stolen. I know this all made some barbaric folks happy. Last I heard, my black Bowden "300" prototype (I STILL have some parts to it along with ALL of the factory photos and photo negatives, special assembly instructions, etc.) is now rattle-can red. Someone stole it ...and they were PROUD of having done so. And whoever got it after that bastardized it and was also proud of that! As the Mandolorian might say, "This is the way."

I had the very last American-made Carlisle whitewall balloon tire– WITH a letter of authentication to me from Carlise Tire & Rubber. Gone. I had a prototype Silver King hextube frame– never drilled for a headbadge, never coated... WITH a letter from Monark TO ME. Still have the letter, but the frame is heaven knows where. And my special aluminum 1930s Silver King Racer disappeared with it. My NOS 1942 Schwinn Cycletruck disappeared. Whizzers, Harley-Davidsons, Indians, and others were trucked away while I spent a month in the hospital battling a virus I picked up in the military while in Viet Nam. And... nobody knows nuthin'. That big theft combined with a smaller one before it took care of how to handle some of the massive amounts of hardware. I had three barns and two 42-foot shipping containers EMPTIED of their contents while I laid near death for a month in a SoCal hospital. Yes. At one time I owned over 3,000 vintage bicycles. I even had two extremely rare Japanese "Du-Jee" bicycles made out of aluminum from World War 2 Japanese Mitsubishi Zero fighter planes! AND the literature to go with them. Yes again.

Fortunately, not everything was located in one place. And 99% of the literature was never touched. And many of my most precious and NOS and prototype bicycles were still with me.

I also had vintage cars that disappeared. Among these were a 1956 Packard Caribbean convertible (needing only a paint job) and a 1941 Cadillac Sixty-Special. I won't tell you how rare either of these cars were (are). But again... nobody knows nuthin'.

Bottom line today? None of you out there in bicycle land even know what is in The Archive. There really are over 80,000 original bicycle catalogues, books, photos, publications. Yes. Betting that not more than a handful of people alive in this hobby today ever saw ANY of our over 600 original bicycle films– some of which were shown at my events years ago and at Interbike trade show years ago. We have one of just a handful of surviving original prints of comedian Joe E. Brown starring in "6 Day Bike Rider"– a feature length movie from 1934. I hear that some of my original Bowden films (yes I still have them all ) that I showed at one event were pirated (guy used a bad VHS cam) and being sold by somebody... but you never saw the real things.

So. What will happen "in the future" for NBHAA? Good question. One thing is for sure, as I said in a CBS-TV broadcast back in the late 1970s (yes, I still have the video copy), "I'm just a caretaker..."