"1x, is better than 2-by". Hype and fad or fact?


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fattyre

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Oct 22, 2014
864
2,234
Chicagoland
#4
It's all about unitizing bicycles, making old product obsolete and sales. Don't believe the hype.

The industry loves 1X! Talk about a way to increase sales and service-

Smaller alloy front ring = increased war? Yes!
Ever narrowing chains with tighter tolerances that don't like increased lateral load? Yes!
400 dollar cassettes? Yes!
Frames that are not interchangeable with older components? Yes!!!!!

There are certain applications where 1X makes sense, but those are generally areas where companies won't make as much money, so there is less hype.

It saddens me that a big part of the bike industry is now profit driven by large corporations. Some of these companies are even taking a page from the Schwinn book and running factory owned or "concept" stores. Cutting out the middle man and limiting product selection all while offering free Kool Aid.
 

tripple3

Riding Miles; Collecting Smiles
Sep 25, 2012
7,293
41,136
Beach Cities, CA 92708
#5
if you ride a lot.....
I ride often, for awhile.
I'm still just getting started. the ride-a-lot guys probably aren't looking at theCABE.
link articulation and the resulting friction would be a large variable
This stuff sounds awesome.
I think this is my 1st post in this section because I don't know much.
I read for a while, try to learn, end up clicking on something else, then go for a ride.:)
Here's my 1X: 1 Inch pitch, 1 gear, keep pedaling.:D
IMG_9169.jpg
IMG_9557.JPG

I rode my Western Flyer up to the Foothill Flyer Ride 50 miles one-way.
My feet were wet from this point where I crossed the river.
Fun Times. Enjoy the ride!
Tom @fattyre I love what you post above; and seeing your ride pics.:)
 

SKPC

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Feb 2, 2018
999
5,622
62
Utah - United States
#6
We all like 1x1 for sure. So simple. I would love to see a durable, easy-to-maintain, sealed-from-the-elements 3-5spd internal gear rear hub in the back combined with a two or three-spd mechanism in the Bottom Bracket area like the old Colson Hi-Lo's…and one ring in front and one cog in back…. but that will never happen if the "Bike Companies" continue to have their way with us and tell us what we need.

The article for sure confirmed what I was thinking with the radical chain lines caused by the one-by design with the giant cassettes. Fattyre, don't forget the weakened rear wheel because of more and more dish because of the increasing number of rear cogs. Oh, and now you need a new rear hub to carry all the cogs... They do not speak about all the required rear wheel dish required by the increasing number of rear cassette cogs which compromises the strength of the wheel that FAILS under my aggressive riding..
 
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fattyre

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Oct 22, 2014
864
2,234
Chicagoland
#7
Super boost plus it bro! Oh wait, now I need a new frame to fit my new hub standard. Also, don't forget to buy a wheel with some obscure 22H spoke pattern with propriety spokes.

Screen Shot 2019-05-03 at 3.53.31 PM.png


@SKPC

I would love to see a durable, easy-to-maintain, sealed-from-the-elements 3-5spd internal gear rear hub in the back combined with a two or three-spd mechanism in the Bottom Bracket area like the old Colson Hi-Lo's…and one ring in front and one cog in back
I've been really interested in a Pinion gear box bike.

1556917241308.png
 
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SKPC

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Feb 2, 2018
999
5,622
62
Utah - United States
#8
Cool setup above!!:p:p I went and checked out their website..

Super Duper Pooper Boostmaster Expert hubs and spacing is coming next in order to take the dish out of the wheel caused by the monster cassettes needed with only one chainring in front! Oh I forgot, that's right I have to get a new frame now and everything else that goes with it.
 
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99 bikes

Look Ma, No Hands!
Dec 22, 2017
44
105
48
Washington, United States
#9
Just thought i'd offer some input on this matter because i've been running a 1X system for a number of years now. I typically ride 40-60 dirt miles a week so YMMV.

In the past one of the most difficult discussions to have with new riders on modern bikes are the proper use of a 3x system (2x is a little easier to explain); how to avoid cross over gears to keep proper chain tension, not to mention the opposite action of a front and rear shifters. After a few minutes the rider looks at you with a baffled look and typically just avoids using the front derailleur.

The 1x system simplified all of this and makes shifting a no-brainer, not to mention quicker, and with the clutch engaged on the derailleur very quiet. Also when you add a dropper it all makes sense. Shift with the right hand, drop the seat with the left. Super easy, and after a 30 miler on the dirt easy is best. Also with a 2x or 3x you end up with a number of duplicate gears so the gear range is nearly the same.

I would also argue that the system is much less expensive than a 2x and 3x. You don't have the extra expense of the other 2 chainrings, front derailleur, and front shifter. You can purchase a wide range cassette with 10 speeds for around $50, I run 11 spd XT and usually spend about $80. As it's always been with bikes you can buy the top of the line for big $, or go reasonable like I do and spend what you are comfortable with.

If somebody was considering a 1x I would strongly recommend trying it out.
 

SKPC

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Feb 2, 2018
999
5,622
62
Utah - United States
#10
Fair enough...but what if you don't "need" or "want" a dropper post? Are you not just adding "more weight" and "more heavy un-needed controls" that you just eliminated by getting rid of the 2nd shifter and ring but then you add it back again with an even heavier dropper post/lever and cable? What if you ride long open gravel road sections but you spin out like a squirrel stuck in a cage cause you do not have another ring up front? Why struggle with only one ring up front that is never low enough or high enough, which is a constant complaint with 1-by systems and non-sponsored riders?
The "clutch" derailleurs with long cages were invented because the cassette spread was getting too wide to begin with when they forced one-by on us, which then makes us use a chain tensioner(more weight) or "narrow/wide" rings. "Boost" spacing was also forced upon us because of the one ring evolution up front and of course 29-er wheels. A wider dropout spacing in back has nothing to do with being able to run fat tires on a bike, (which is commonly claimed). The chain and seat stays if designed wider allows fat tires, not "boost spacing" people! One ring in front was forced onto us because of the 29-er wheel size which compromised frame design. A longer-travel Full Suspension Frame could not be made to work for 29-ers without getting rid of the front derailleur to make room for the bigger wheels, which happens to run into the BB area and that pesky front shifter darnit.
What if you are a seasoned rider and you never have to think about cross-chaining cause you know better? What if you want a wider range of gears? Yes, you can run a 1x10 with a large-spread cassette, but you need a derailleur adapter to be able to allow the old derailleur to work, which also weakens the frame/derailleur connection but it still does not give you a wide enough range....the #1 complaint besides cassette costs. And now the cross-chaining gets worse because of the one ring up front and the wide-range cassette in back..(see article link)
And finally, with all due respect, if a rider looks at me with a "baffled look" when talking about cross-chaining or what gear to use, then prob won't be riding much with them(small percentage.:sunglasses:) Funny, I can't tell the difference between qr or 15mm thru-axle front ends nor can I feel much difference between a 29er, 27 .5er or a 26er to be honest......if you spend $6000 on a new carbon 29er FS bike, then you are forced to hit the easy button and support "one-by" because that is all you can have. It may be good for some riders, but it's not for me or the terrain I ride..skpc
 
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Captain Awesome

Finally riding a big boys bike
Mar 29, 2019
276
651
SC
#11
Funny, I can't tell the difference between qr or 15mm thru-axle front ends nor can I feel much difference between a 29er, 27 .5er or a 26er to be honest......
I can feel a definite difference between 26 and 29, and certain Strava segments show that my "seatpantsometer" is relatively accurate. I know my rock garden and root wall sections get way more float on one of my 29ers, but the 26 is all about those descents baby!! Axles though.............meh. If they aren't breaking, then I'm satisfied
 

99 bikes

Look Ma, No Hands!
Dec 22, 2017
44
105
48
Washington, United States
#12
Wow what a great response. Thanks i'll lend my opinion, once again it's just my opinion and what works for me.

Fair enough...but what if you don't "need" or "want" a dropper post? Are you not just adding "more weight" and "more heavy un-needed controls" that you just eliminated by getting rid of the 2nd shifter and ring but then you add it back again with an even heavier dropper post/lever and cable?

Nobody needs to have a dropper post. I resisted for years but finally decided to take the plunge and now I can't imagine going back. It's just nice when i'm on unfamiliar trails, cruise around a corner to see a big rock drop. Being able to instantly drop the seat and shift my weight back makes it much safer and fun, for me.

What if you ride long open gravel road sections but you spin out like a squirrel stuck in a cage cause you do not have another ring up front? Why struggle with only one ring up front that is never low enough or high enough, which is a constant complaint with 1-by systems and non-sponsored riders?

This I have no experience with. I only ride gravel or pavement when I have no other options. I would agree that chances are many people would spin out on those surfaces. Or they go with a much larger front chainring and adjust the gearing in the back to suit. 2x or 3x might be a better option though.

The "clutch" derailleurs with long cages were invented because the cassette spread was getting too wide to begin with when they forced one-by on us, which then makes us use a chain tensioner(more weight) or "narrow/wide" rings. "Boost" spacing was also forced upon us because of the one ring evolution up front and of course 29-er wheels. A wider dropout spacing in back has nothing to do with being able to run fat tires on a bike, (which is commonly claimed). The chain and seat stays if designed wider allows fat tires, not "boost spacing" people! One ring in front was forced onto us because of the 29-er wheel size which compromised frame design. A longer-travel Full Suspension Frame could not be made to work for 29-ers without getting rid of the front derailleur to make room for the bigger wheels, which happens to run into the BB area and that pesky front shifter darnit.

The only way a 1x system can work properly is with a clutch derailleur and a narrow wide up front, otherwise you'd be dropping chains constantly. The adjustable clutch keeps the chain nice and tight so you don't drop chains. It's a very reliable system and works well.

All of my 1x bikes are not boost and use a standard Shimano hyperglide cassette freehub which has been in production since the 80's. My main ride is a hard tail steel 29", 2.25 wide tires and it weighs 26lbs with a dropper and a 140mm DVO up front. All of my drivetrain parts would work just as well on older bikes (with the addition of a Goat Link in the back), the hyperglide hub shell is identical.

What if you are a seasoned rider and you never have to think about cross-chaining cause you know better? What if you want a wider range of gears? Yes, you can run a 1x10 with a large-spread cassette, but you need a derailleur adapter to be able to allow the old derailleur to work, which also weakens the frame/derailleur connection but it still does not give you a wide enough range....the #1 complaint besides cassette costs. And now the cross-chaining gets worse because of the one ring up front and the wide-range cassette in back..(see article link)

Agreed, once you learn riding a triple it becomes second nature. Saying that, what happens when you go around a blind corner at speed to see a granny gear climb. With a triple you have to click the front derailleur down (sometimes twice), then also click the rear all the way. Compare that with a 1x and it's just easier, and perhaps quicker for some.

And finally, with all due respect, if a rider looks at me with a "baffled look" when talking about cross-chaining or what gear to use, then I probably won't be riding with them to begin with.:sunglasses: Funny, I can't tell the difference between qr or 15mm thru-axle front ends nor can I feel much difference between a 29er, 27 .5er or a 26er to be honest......if you spend $6000 on a new carbon 29er FS bike, then you are forced to hit the easy button and support "one-by" because that is all you can have. It may be good for some riders, but it's not for me or the terrain I ride..skpc[/QUOTE]

Totally agree with you! When I mentioned baffled look i'm talking spouses and people that are new to the sport.

View attachment 990799 [/QUOTE]
Pinion gearboxes are really cool, but until they sync the gearing

Once again I totally agree with you. Who wants a bike you can't shift under power. Not me!
 
Likes: SKPC

99 bikes

Look Ma, No Hands!
Dec 22, 2017
44
105
48
Washington, United States
#13
One additional comment. I think the focus on 1x came about because of the popularity of full suspension. Being able to eliminate the front derailleur has freed up that area to suit different designs.

I think the fd will always be with us, it works and works well.
 

SKPC

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Feb 2, 2018
999
5,622
62
Utah - United States
#14
Agreed to both good comments. Everything high end is super cool and rides deluxely these days, both road and mtb. It's all good..
 

fattyre

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Oct 22, 2014
864
2,234
Chicagoland
#15
One additional comment. I think the focus on 1x came about because of the popularity of full suspension. Being able to eliminate the front derailleur has freed up that area to suit different designs.
And tire width too. That doesn’t leave much for a front derailleur and more than one chainring. Especially if you want short chain stays so your bike doesn’t turn like a truck.
1557407843702.jpeg
 
Likes: SKPC

SKPC

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Feb 2, 2018
999
5,622
62
Utah - United States
#16
Mtb candy^^^ Personal wish: 1 or 2 rings optional....7-11 spd cassettes(take your pick) with std hub carrier (any gear/ring combo).....wide stays......any wheel/tire size, standard drops. My perfect world dream. Bicycles for the most part go fundamentally unchanged....A frame & fork, two wheels chain driven by pedals and a crankset.
Long live the almighty bicycle...
 
Likes: 99 bikes

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