Can you tell me the year of this Hiawatha/Gambles?

[PaulWR]

I am guessing an early 1960's, perhaps a 1963. The serial number is WG 3.808A 877366. I just picked it up for parts, namely the tank, but it really does not fit on my 1964. Of well, I could waste my time, money and energy on refurbishing this one. Thank you in advance. Here are some pics.

 

[Archie Sturmer]

Looks a lot like my WG-3 808A Murray-built Gambles Hiawatha; except that all the parts and accessories look to be present.

The 6-digits serial sequence numbers on my bike were about 600,000 lower than yours, but the same color black, and the same “three bar cantilever” frame design.

Not sure if the higher numbers mean later years, or if Murray restarted the numbering sequence periodically.

 

[PaulWR]

Looks a lot like my WG-3 808A Murray-built Gambles Hiawatha; except that all the parts and accessories look to be present.

Thanks, but do you know the year of your similar bike? I got this one Saturday from a bike shop down the street. It was outside at the bottom of his old bikes wall hangings display, unlocked. I guess this hulk does not look to be too tempting to steal anyways. It does ride real well, even with the broken spokes and bad tires. I did try to clean a few areas just to see what I have. The brushed over painted silver removes with Easy-Off oven cleaner. Also the wheel chrome cleans up nice.

 

[Adamtinkerer]

Well, it's an early '60s Murray built Hiawatha, sold at Gambles Dept. stores. These all seem to have the 'WG 3' prefix, so I don't think it specifically means '63. Murray's serial #s between '60-'63 aren't decoded yet, as they're not in an obvious pattern, like the older letter system, or the later numbering (MO-5 = 1965).

 

[PaulWR]

Well, it's an early '60s Murray built Hiawatha, sold at Gambles Dept. stores. These all seem to have the 'WG 3' prefix, so I don't think it specifically means '63. Murray's serial #s between '60-'63 aren't decoded yet, as they're not in an obvious pattern, like the older letter system, or the later numbering (MO-5 = 1965).

I was cleaning up the rear reflector on this bike and noticed the cast letters and numbers on the outer surface. It reads " SAE-B63 STRATOLITE 52". Which leads me to believe it is a 1963 model because of the SAE identification code. All automotive, cycle lighting and apparently also reflectors are certified to be made to DOT standards. The 63 on this reflector would indicate the year 1963. Like on my 1964 Chevrolet Corvair "SAE DOT 64", or something like that, is cast into the outer surface of the tail and reverse light lenses. I believe that this reflector is original to the bicycle judging from it's size and style. Anyone out there have anything to add or even dispute my theory?

 

[GTs58]

It’s not a theory it’s a fact. I have two 1963 varsities with the same thing molded in on the lens. I hope this is the right picture I’m on my phone and I can’t see the numbers.

 

[PaulWR]

It’s not a theory it’s a fact. I have two 1963 varsities with the same thing molded in on the lens. I hope this is the right picture I’m on my phone and I can’t see the numbers.

View attachment 1795606

You are the Wiz! And yes, that is the correct picture. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[GTs58]

The earliest bike reflector that I’ve seen with the SAE was 1960. My earlier bikes just had the number 10 on them.

 

[NBHAA]

Well, it's an early '60s Murray built Hiawatha, sold at Gambles Dept. stores. These all seem to have the 'WG 3' prefix, so I don't think it specifically means '63. Murray's serial #s between '60-'63 aren't decoded yet, as they're not in an obvious pattern, like the older letter system, or the later numbering (MO-5 = 1965).

"WG" or "WG-3" designations on Hiawatha brand bicycles have absolutely no connection to Murray-Ohio or to years. These are Gambles stores prefixes. They relate more directly to model numbers than to serial numbers or specific years. And... these are an area all their own.

And Murray serial numbers are indeed very, very well understood– even if not on this online forum. Most of the guesses and suppositions about these numbers on DIY sites are just plain incorrect. NBHAA has the Gambles bicycle records, although missing a few items. NBHAA also has Murray's serial records and has had them since the 1970s– direct from the company. Yours truly was once a historical consultant for Murray-Ohio. This was decades ago.

Just because Murray made certain brands of bicycles for certain retailers or wholesale/distributors does not mean that the serial numbers on those private-label brands (such as Hiawatha) are using Murray's factory serial numbers as a universal generic. Private-label brands often had their own numbering systems and the two will often not mix at all. Nor will they be generic and comparable to some other private-label brand– even if the same company made them.

As for fresnelling and SAE mold markings on these bicycle reflectors, one cannot use them as a reference for the model year of a vehicle– whether car or bicycle. Bad idea. And I say this as a bonafide actual member of SAE. Markings, for instance on 1961 Mercury Monterey tail lights mean nothing in reference to the model year of the car. Why? Because the tail lights in question were originally made for 1960 Continental Mark V. The tail light assemblies just found a new home on the 1961 Mercury. Yes. This is not the only example. And things got wayyyy more complicated in the bicycle biz... and double the complication today when looking back at bicycles that may or may not have had the reflectors swapped out. Or bicycles that went to market via wholesale/distributors or private-label retailers who could have (and often did) change anything or specify equipment that varied from the factory-installed items.

 

[Adamtinkerer]

"WG" or "WG-3" designations on Hiawatha brand bicycles have absolutely no connection to Murray-Ohio or to years. These are Gambles stores prefixes. They relate more directly to model numbers than to serial numbers or specific years. And... these are an area all their own.

And Murray serial numbers are indeed very, very well understood– even if not on this online forum. Most of the guesses and suppositions about these numbers on DIY sites are just plain incorrect. NBHAA has the Gambles bicycle records, although missing a few items. NBHAA also has Murray's serial records and has had them since the 1970s– direct from the company. Yours truly was once a historical consultant for Murray-Ohio. This was decades ago.

Just because Murray made certain brands of bicycles for certain retailers or wholesale/distributors does not mean that the serial numbers on those private-label brands (such as Hiawatha) are using Murray's factory serial numbers as a universal generic. Private-label brands often had their own numbering systems and the two will often not mix at all. Nor will they be generic and comparable to some other private-label brand– even if the same company made them.

As for fresnelling and SAE mold markings on these bicycle reflectors, one cannot use them as a reference for the model year of a vehicle– whether car or bicycle. Bad idea. And I say this as a bonafide actual member of SAE. Markings, for instance on 1961 Mercury Monterey tail lights mean nothing in reference to the model year of the car. Why? Because the tail lights in question were originally made for 1960 Continental Mark V. The tail light assemblies just found a new home on the 1961 Mercury. Yes. This is not the only example. And things got wayyyy more complicated in the bicycle biz... and double the complication today when looking back at bicycles that may or may not have had the reflectors swapped out. Or bicycles that went to market via wholesale/distributors or private-label retailers who could have (and often did) change anything or specify equipment that varied from the factory-installed items.

Thank you for shedding some light on this! Proprietary coding would explain most of the confusion over the '60-'64 period. I'm thinking Western Flyers of that era were as well, with only an 'X' as a clue. We've been relying on the chart from ABC Service's reprint of a 1959 Western Auto parts manual for their Murray chart (below). One detail I've noticed is that most JC Higgins are stamped 'MOS-', and then the year letter, as opposed to other Murray built bikes being 'MO-'.