Cleveland Welding or Elgin?

[1936PEDALER]

Definitely a mut.
They may have cut down girls forks and just didn’t leave enough threads.
The frame looks like my CWC which is similar to the Colson. Even the forks are similar. My fork tab holds the truss bracket, but my Colson forks are peaked at the top?

 

[dirtman]

The forks are smooth, much like a Schwinn.
They don't look cut, if they were, its been a long time and a lot of use since, and the steer tube matches the color inside the BB shell.

There's some old headset parts in the box on which the top cone is very thin, and the lock ring has only a key tab on it, when assembled, the bearing, cone, and lock keyed plate are all below the level of the cup. With the Wald, the cone is thick, and incorporates a thumb ring, then a keyed washer, then the nut. Only about 1/3 of the nut engages the threads. The crown race is also not original, its thinner than the original by half but they got spacers under it so the cup doesn't drag the fork crown I suppose. If the crown race was any lower the cup would hit the fender tab. Its pretty close even with the shims.
I think the bottom line is that I need to find some original parts, the modern Wald stuff just don't work on this.
I don't want to turn it into a full restoration though, its certainly not that kind of bike, but I will make it ride able again with as many original parts as I can find in my junk drawers here.
Was Western Flyer the only badge to go on this type of frame?

 

[fordmike65]

Definitely a mut.
They may have cut down girls forks and just didn’t leave enough threads.
The frame looks like my CWC which is similar to the Colson. Even the forks are similar. My fork tab holds the truss bracket, but my Colson forks are peaked at the top?

'36 Colson fork crown is smooth. '37 and on have a slight ridge(peak)

 

[Archie Sturmer]

I believe that Colson (lug frames), Westfield (earlier), and Iver Johnson may have all used undersized bottom bracket cups and hardware, (but different sizes from each other).

 

[dirtman]

The bb on this bike is larger than most. It large enough that a standard Wald BB almost falls in.

A few things stick in my mind about this bike.
The steer tube and the inside of the bb shell have the same color paint, sort of a burgundy purple color.
I was thinking that the wheels were off a different bike because of the Musselman/Elgin finned hubs, but when I removed the tires, the inside of the rims are also the same color as the steer tube and bb, the cg is black under the red, so it came from a different bike, and there's no way to make it fit the frame with the given holes and brackets. The way it sits on the bike in the pic is the lowest possible position.
The headbadge screws are 2 5/8" spacing.

The frame shape does match up to many other CW frames with the closer top tubes.
I've been over this thing with a fine tooth comb and here's no numbers, but the bottom of the bottom bracket has a bunch of small punch marks all over the bottom, but it don't spell out anything and the marks appear to be just random.
What I'm seeing so far is:
The frame and sprocket appear to be CWC/ Western Flyer
The wheels both have Elgin hubs but they were painted the same color as the rest of the frame and forks.
The seat could also be from an old Elgin.
The bars and stem are both newer and don't belong,

The part I'm having trouble getting past is the fact that the rims, frame and forks all have the same original wine color.
If the wheels came from the other bike, what are the chances they were painted the right color to match the CWC frame and fork?
If the bike is CW, what are the chances it would have had finned Musselman hubs?
If the wheels were a different color, then the thought that they came from another bike but they match. The red paint came off pretty easy, the base paint was wine colored with white pinstripes. I stripped the rims down and started to fill in all the rust pitting.
I'm thinking that the whole thing is going to need new paint in order to make it all match.

 

[J-wagon]

The part I'm having trouble getting past is the fact that the rims, frame and forks all have the same original wine color.
If the wheels came from the other bike, what are the chances they were painted the right color to match the CWC frame and fork?

Maybe finned hubs were swapped onto rims? Should be a date code on musselman rear hub shell non drive side.

 

[dirtman]

Maybe finned hubs were swapped onto rims? Should be a date code on musselman rear hub shell non drive side.

It possible but if they were, its been a long time ago judging by how rusty the spokes were.
When I took the front wheel apart, the already cracked hub pretty much crumbled in my hands. The pot metal was so badly broken down it crumbled like stale bread. It was originally broke both in the middle, between the left two fins, and both flanges had lost several spoke holes in a cluster that had been epoxied back in place. The wheel bearing turned it was so messed up. The tires still had their flashing nipples on the tread but the rear tire was yellowed badly on the left side. The tires, rear rack, and bars have found a new home already, the cg will get saved for a Colson in the shed.
Its hard to tell what shape the bike was in when the former owner got it, but by the look of the work done on it he wasn't likely capable of swapping hubs. The spokes were rusted to the point of being thread thin some areas.

 

[Adamtinkerer]

Another possibility, the bike could've been cobbled together in the '50s from then-junk parts. No connections between CWC and Sears, those hubs were swapped in, when they were likely in much better condition! And CWC built under many badges, their house brand being Road Master, but also Speed King, Hawthorne, etc.

 

[Rivnut]

A Riviera friend of mine just gave me a bunch of bicycle stuff (30# worth) from his late father’s shop. Two large coffee cans full of BB cups and bearings. Send me some dimensions and I’ll send you a set ( for the cost of shipping) if I have any that match.

Ed

 

[dirtman]

Anything is possible I suppose, but if it were done early on, why swap what was likely ND hubs for a pair of Elgin hubs? I don't see the benefit, and the front was definitely a downgrade considering how it broke apart.
Were these finned Musselman hubs only used on Elgin/JC Higgins bikes? I found it odd that its got a Musselman brake arm, not 'Elgin'. Most that I've seen all had Elgin or JCH scripted brake arms.

I did find a Roadmaster badge in the one box but didn't equate it to this bike because its got blue paint on the back of it, and this bike doesn't show any signs of every being blue. The screw spacing fits though.