Kick back hub slipping

[razinhellcustomz]

We're getting there.
Worlds most expensive Resto, my first and last,,, lol!

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BEAUTIFUL Jaguar . Really nice job and happy you have the 2 speed sorted out. But that chain needs about 4 links taken out for proper slack. RideOn. Mark.

 

[Ron]

BEAUTIFUL Jaguar . Really nice job and happy you have the 2 speed sorted out. But that chain needs about 4 links taken out for proper slack. RideOn. Mark.

Yes sir,
Already done.

 

[Ron]

The spring you are talking about is called the Indexing Spring. It's purpose is to hold the drive clutch apart when reversing the pedals allowing it to shift. It is by far the most common failure part in any of the three Bendix Automatic versions.

But..........it does not cause slipping as the original poster outlined. Several things need to be checked. The hub could just need a good cleaning and some new (not heavy grease) lubrication. If the two drive clutches do not screw freely on the two drivers, the retarder springs will slip and not move the clutches "in and out", causing the slipping. You need to test the hub shell for wear. If the taper inside the hub shell is worn (there's actually two different drive tapers) no amount of new parts will fix the hub shell problem. Hub shell drive wear was a problem with this hub. You can hold the clutches in with one hand in a partially assembled hub and apply some torque with a chain whip to the sprocket to test for hub wear. It's easy to tell if it's worn beyond use.

You need to clean the hub first, then diagnose the actual problem, before you start tossing new parts blindly at it.

Dis-assembled the hub, the "break side" of the hub was very, very, dirty, looks like it was left alone, the "driver side" was nice and re greased. It looks like to me, the person I bought the hub from only went so deep to clean and re grease the driver side of the hub. The low speed driver and high speed driver's "threads" seem to have a little ware, the very middle of the hub seems to have wear also, kind of a concave?
As usual, any and all reply's, positive and negative always welcome. I just want to get this thing done.
Thanks again

 

[WillWork4Parts]

Have you finished cleaning the hub internals and reassembling outside of the shell?
You will be able to simulate shifting on the bench this way. The lock nuts only need to be snugged up a bit. Drive the sprocket in the forward direction while holding the brake arm still. Both clutches should always turn with the sprocket going forward. You will be able to tell if the clutches are swapping which is in control when you kick the sprocket back enough and start turning forward again. One position/gear will have all 3 of the index spring tines set in the 3 recesses of the clutch. The other gear will have the 3 raised parts on the driver pulled up and stopped against the 3 tines of the index spring. This is what keeps that clutch disengaged from the hub shell and let's the other clutch take over control. If all of these things happen and the left clutch moves close to the left driver when in control it's shifting, reinstall the assembly into the clean hub and try it out. If it still slips that's when you jump to the conclusion that the hub shell is worn out.
If the hub only wants to stay in the one position/gear, start checking for broken coupling spring "windows" not allowing the hub to shift or possibly weak retarder springs. Then check for broken tines and pawls on the index spring and for wear on the inside of the driver that index spring mates to. Please post pictures of what you find and we can assist.

This guy's video makes for a good visual. Neither of us are using 100% correct terms, but this will help get you started in the right direction learning the theory of the hub and you can start asking the right questions once you've looked the hub over. Then it will be on to the parts diagram to properly identify the part you may need. Hope this helps!

 

[Ron]

Have you finished cleaning the hub internals and reassembling outside of the shell?
You will be able to simulate shifting on the bench this way. The lock nuts only need to be snugged up a bit. Drive the sprocket in the forward direction while holding the brake arm still. Both clutches should always turn with the sprocket going forward. You will be able to tell if the clutches are swapping which is in control when you kick the sprocket back enough and start turning forward again. One position/gear will have all 3 of the index spring tines set in the 3 recesses of the clutch. The other gear will have the 3 raised parts on the driver pulled up and stopped against the 3 tines of the index spring. This is what keeps that clutch disengaged from the hub shell and let's the other clutch take over control. If all of these things happen and the left clutch moves close to the left driver when in control it's shifting, reinstall the assembly into the clean hub and try it out. If it still slips that's when you jump to the conclusion that the hub shell is worn out.
If the hub only wants to stay in the one position/gear, start checking for broken coupling spring "windows" not allowing the hub to shift or possibly weak retarder springs. Then check for broken tines and pawls on the index spring and for wear on the inside of the driver that index spring mates to. Please post pictures of what you find and we can assist.

This guy's video makes for a good visual. Neither of us are using 100% correct terms, but this will help get you started in the right direction learning the theory of the hub and you can start asking the right questions once you've looked the hub over. Then it will be on to the parts diagram to properly identify the part you may need. Hope this helps!

Good morning,
Greatly appreciated, I'll do that and keep you posted.
All the best,
Ron

 

[B607]

I have several loose red band hub shells. PM me if you need one.

 

[Ron]

I have several loose red band hub shells. PM me if you need one.

Thank you sir, will do

 

[Ron]

Have you finished cleaning the hub internals and reassembling outside of the shell?
You will be able to simulate shifting on the bench this way. The lock nuts only need to be snugged up a bit. Drive the sprocket in the forward direction while holding the brake arm still. Both clutches should always turn with the sprocket going forward. You will be able to tell if the clutches are swapping which is in control when you kick the sprocket back enough and start turning forward again. One position/gear will have all 3 of the index spring tines set in the 3 recesses of the clutch. The other gear will have the 3 raised parts on the driver pulled up and stopped against the 3 tines of the index spring. This is what keeps that clutch disengaged from the hub shell and let's the other clutch take over control. If all of these things happen and the left clutch moves close to the left driver when in control it's shifting, reinstall the assembly into the clean hub and try it out. If it still slips that's when you jump to the conclusion that the hub shell is worn out.
If the hub only wants to stay in the one position/gear, start checking for broken coupling spring "windows" not allowing the hub to shift or possibly weak retarder springs. Then check for broken tines and pawls on the index spring and for wear on the inside of the driver that index spring mates to. Please post pictures of what you find and we can assist.

This guy's video makes for a good visual. Neither of us are using 100% correct terms, but this will help get you started in the right direction learning the theory of the hub and you can start asking the right questions once you've looked the hub over. Then it will be on to the parts diagram to properly identify the part you may need. Hope this helps!

Recommendations for grease please.

 

[WillWork4Parts]

Recommendations for grease please.

Does that mean you got it shifting???

A lot of people swear by this product.

I say use anything that is Not White Lithium grease. I also oil the index spring and brake discs, only lightly grease the threads of the drivers. Then be sure to regularly clean and re-lube the hub whatever brand or weight of lube you choose.

 

[Ron]

Does that mean you got it shifting???

A lot of people swear by this product.

View attachment 2082334 I say use anything that is Not White Lithium grease. I also oil the index spring and brake discs, only lightly grease the threads of the drivers. Then be sure to regularly clean and re-lube the hub whatever brand or weight of lube you choose.

Thank you,
I'm glad I asked, I was going to go with white lithium grease. I have the internal parts broke down and cleaned really well. Hopefully I'll have time today to reassemble without grease and proceed with the test. Fingers crossed. I'll take pictures.
Thanks again for the help