Looking for info on a 30s potential Wastyn/Durkopp track bicycle.

[eyefrommn]

Hi I’ve just seen this post. Here’s what I can contribute. Ken Winkie was indeed a racer although I’ve never seen a program with his bio in it He was from the Chicago land area and I believe Ted Ernst may be the only one still living that knew him personally.
The bike is fabulous with all the right stuff. The color was a pretty common color in the 30s. Since this was a true racing bike it could be not the original color but that doesn’t matter so much if the bike was raced hard. We have a bunch of bikes that have been painted multiple times because off repairs etc
As to the maker it’s hard to determine but I can tell you what I think. The head lug design was used by a number of builders. Brennan, Wastyn, goosens, Sieber, torpado and more
Brennans work is the best treatment and these lugs are very close. The non Brennan detail is the rear drop outs. Brennan hand cut his lugs from brown and sharp steel. Bill Brennan gave me the template they always used and this does not match . The Brennans never used frame numbers as far as I know and from what Bill Brennan told me. Traditionally the Brennans had a notch in the head lugs at top and bottom and tin the fork crown window which was usually a much larger cut away. Brennan did phase out the knotch due to cracking in the later 30s on the head lugs. I can’t say for sure but I’ve never seen rear drop outs like these on any of the Brennans in our collection. Inmho it could be and regardless it is an amazing bike. It’s also possible the rear tips were replaced as the finish on the stay ends is rougher than the Brennans did

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Thanks Jeff. I did notice the pointed features on the head lugs and fork crown of Pop's frames and this frame has none of that. Interesting to know about the Brown and Sharp steel templates. Also, fact that there is a three digit serial number on the rear dropout kind of rules it out as a "Pop" frame. If Ken Winkie was from Chicago, it does make sense that the Wastyns could have built the frameset. The Wastyns would put a serial number on the frame if you wanted and I haven't seen a similar frame from the period with a 3 digit serial on the right rear dropout. History hunt goes on..

 

[nauseated]

I doubt it was built with a 77 degree head tube angle, but it has one now.

 

[Sixdayjeff]

Thanks a bunch for the info, every scrap of it helps!

So I’ve got a pretty extensive archive of fotos. Here are two of Ken. I actually have one of his Durkopp bikes. This was taken in Chicago I’d call Scott at the wastyn shop oscar jr knew Ken and will tell you if it’s a wastyn.

Thanks Jeff. I did notice the pointed features on the head lugs and fork crown of Pop's frames and this frame has none of that. Interesting to know about the Brown and Sharp steel templates. Also, fact that there is a three digit serial number on the rear dropout kind of rules it out as a "Pop" frame. If Ken Winkie was from Chicago, it does make sense that the Wastyns could have built the frameset. The Wastyns would put a serial number on the frame if you wanted and I haven't seen a similar frame from the period with a 3 digit serial on the right rear dropout. History hunt goes on..

 

[Sixdayjeff]

So I’ve got a pretty extensive archive of fotos. Here are two of Ken. I actually have one of his Durkopp bikes. This was taken in Chicago I’d call Scott at the wastyn shop oscar jr knew Ken and will tell you if

 

[Sixdayjeff]

So I’ve got a pretty extensive archive of fotos. Here are two of Ken. I actually have one of his Durkopp bikes. This was taken in Chicago I’d call Scott at the wastyn shop oscar jr knew Ken and will tell you if it’s a wastyn.


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Thanks Jeff. I did notice the pointed features on the head lugs and fork crown of Pop's frames and this frame has none of that. Interesting to know about the Brown and Sharp steel templates. Also, fact that there is a three digit serial number on the rear dropout kind of rules it out as a "Pop" frame. If Ken Winkie was from Chicago, it does make sense that the Wastyns could have built the frameset. The Wastyns would put a serial number on the frame if you wanted and I haven't seen a similar frame from the period with a 3 digit serial on the right rear dropout. History hunt goes on..

 

[St33lWh33ls]

Jeff has hands on experience with many famous Pop Brennan bikes so I defer to his expertise. Jeff’s website is probably the best online resource for bicycles of this type and I am thankful for it, the documentation and photos are very helpful researching these bikes. I would just say don’t totally rule out that the serial was stamped after the fact, maybe after a repair to the dropouts. I only have two of Pops bikes, I also have a Wastyn Special and a couple Wastyn built Paramounts from that era. That lug work looks like it was done by a chandelier maker.