Looking for pics of 1938 Ladies Elgin...

[toby weidner]

I just scoured 40,41,42 all seasons Sears catalogs and this thing doesn't fit anywhere! I know it was sold in one of those years and I'm ok with calling it a 1940 but catalogs show all curved bar bicycles, so I don't know how to choose a correct color and scheme , I do like the sound of the maroon and brown/tan, ivory and light blue, dark blue and teal blue with white trim, or dark green and light green with white, I like the less common color combinations, but it bothers me that none will likely be correct

 

[Freqman1]

From about 1936 until the war both Westfield and Murray were building the same model of bike for Sears and they will vary. As was mentioned before not all models/variations are shown in the catalog. There were promotional models and others never shown in national catalogs.

 

[Mercian]

Hi @toby weidner

It may be time to turn detective.

Have you looked at some of the areas of the bike that may still contain original paint?

Common places include inside the bb, and on the fork above the shoulders, where it fits into the head tube. Also, perhaps lightly sanding, scraping or paint stripping a small area on the frame to see if the original paint survives?

This may not give you a full scheme, but if the paint survives, will give you a base colour to work on.

I will have another look at surviving examples I have listed tomorrow, and see if I can pull up some better matches for you.

Best regards,

Adrian

 

[Mercian]

This is what I've noticed before.... The bracing is different in the down tubes on those '40 models, and on most claimed '40 models the fender is on top of the fork, that's what I've been seeing consistently, now I understand the fender could be incorrect but the bracing difference can't be argued and suggests '38 or '39, I'm still confused

Hi @toby weidner

I'm just doing a little more work on this. To clarify, when you say 'The bracing is diffeent in the down tubes' do you mean the truss rods, or something else. Thanks.

Again, these bikes are not exactly to your specification (mainly a different chainwheel), but it gives an idea of colour schemes, and the variations available at that time.

So, here is a July 39 with truss rods: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-wednesday-show-your-bikes-here.88774/page-62

Then this March 1940 with Truss rods: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/i-found-this-vintage-bicycle-during-a-clean-out-does-anyone-know-the-model-name-and-year-of-this-elgin-it’s-very-solid-and-seems-complete.147253/#post-987923

Post 137 is another March 1940 with truss rods: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-frame-numbers-1933-1945.100743/page-14#post-1358322

A May 1940 frame, not built up until November 1940: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/columbia-superb.180898/

And that's all I have of late 1939 to 1940 girls bikes with truss rods.

I hope it helps.

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

[toby weidner]

Hi @toby weidner

I'm just doing a little more work on this. To clarify, when you say 'The bracing is diffeent in the down tubes' do you mean the truss rods, or something else. Thanks.

Again, these bikes are not exactly to your specification (mainly a different chainwheel), but it gives an idea of colour schemes, and the variations available at that time.

So, here is a July 39 with truss rods: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-wednesday-show-your-bikes-here.88774/page-62

Then this March 1940 with Truss rods: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/i-found-this-vintage-bicycle-during-a-clean-out-does-anyone-know-the-model-name-and-year-of-this-elgin-it’s-very-solid-and-seems-complete.147253/#post-987923

Post 137 is another March 1940 with truss rods: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-frame-numbers-1933-1945.100743/page-14#post-1358322

A May 1940 frame, not built up until November 1940: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/columbia-superb.180898/

And that's all I have of late 1939 to 1940 girls bikes with truss rods.

I hope it helps.

Best Regards,

Adrian

Hi Adrian, no, not the truss rods, the bracing that's welded between the two frame down tubes, mine has two braces that are welded in square with the down tubes, more commonly I see the frame with a single brace in it that's welded in on an angle making it look horizontal to the bike lengthwise, this difference in the bracing goes with a much shorter tank for the models I've seen with two braces

 

[toby weidner]

Hi @toby weidner

It may be time to turn detective.

Have you looked at some of the areas of the bike that may still contain original paint?

Common places include inside the bb, and on the fork above the shoulders, where it fits into the head tube. Also, perhaps lightly sanding, scraping or paint stripping a small area on the frame to see if the original paint survives?

This may not give you a full scheme, but if the paint survives, will give you a base colour to work on.

I will have another look at surviving examples I have listed tomorrow, and see if I can pull up some better matches for you.

Best regards,

Adrian

Hey Adrian, on the paint issue, I've been looking at some scratches and a few other areas, turns out it's looking like this may have actually been maroon, I've received another blessing!

 

[toby weidner]

Hi @toby weidner

I'm just doing a little more work on this. To clarify, when you say 'The bracing is diffeent in the down tubes' do you mean the truss rods, or something else. Thanks.

Again, these bikes are not exactly to your specification (mainly a different chainwheel), but it gives an idea of colour schemes, and the variations available at that time.

So, here is a July 39 with truss rods: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-wednesday-show-your-bikes-here.88774/page-62

Then this March 1940 with Truss rods: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/i-found-this-vintage-bicycle-during-a-clean-out-does-anyone-know-the-model-name-and-year-of-this-elgin-it’s-very-solid-and-seems-complete.147253/#post-987923

Post 137 is another March 1940 with truss rods: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/westfield-frame-numbers-1933-1945.100743/page-14#post-1358322

A May 1940 frame, not built up until November 1940: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/columbia-superb.180898/

And that's all I have of late 1939 to 1940 girls bikes with truss rods.

I hope it helps.

Best Regards,

Adrian

Adrian, other than the chain rings all of those appear to have the same frame as mine except the black and red one(looks like a curved bar), I'll look again
No, looked again, it's also the same, just the way it looked in that picture at first glance

 

[toby weidner]

That frame is different than the one in the catalog illustration, I too am looking to identify a ladies Elgin so I'm noticing every detail

View attachment 2118481

Archie, post a picture, all the researching I've done and information I've received trying to figure this one out, maybe I could help you