1943 Schwinn Wartime New World - 23" large frame w/ lots of black out parts

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rennfaron

Wore out three sets of tires already!
I just picked this NW up because of the wartime connection and have yet to have one in this time period with black out parts. Serial number is J07596, which I think is 1943 but have not looked too hard into that yet. I am hoping to start collecting some parts (I like to have all parts ready for the project before I start) and then tackle the break down, cleanup and reassembly. I basically just pulled this guy out of the box and gave it a once over to make sure Fedex didn't bang it up too bad...

Images shown are from seller. When I get more time I will upload more. I just wanted to throw this up there for sake of conversation (and to motivate me to tackle this one sooner than later... :)) and because his photos were pretty darn good.

First impressions:
  • Noted by the seller, the rear hub had been swapped out at some point for this large flange hub. I can only assume at this time it would have originally been a ND black out coaster hub.
  • Black out parts are: Levers, calipers, crank cones, wald pedals, seat clamp bolt, fender braces, seat post (hard to tell but the black coating looks to be there), front schwinn hub.
  • Parts not original to bike: large flange rear hub, chain ring, crank (maybe?), chain (maybe?).
  • Missing: miller kickstand (wonder if it would have been blacked out?)
  • Interesting observations:
    • It has a really cool persons tourist saddle on it from that time period. It makes me think that per supply issues, maybe Persons is what they could get (if original to the bike, which it looks to be). It could provide some more insight into supply chain issues at the time and who was making what.
    • It has the painted white rims which I have seen on some wartime NWs.
    • @GTs58 had noted to me that it is one of a couple/few he has seen with the rear caliper mounted on the inside of the stays
  • Still has the original "WAR TIRE" tires on there.
Also - Looking for swap blackout parts if you got them.

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rennfaron

Wore out three sets of tires already!
That rear hub may not be original, but it looks like it's been on there a long time. Interesting bike, thanks for posting!
For sure. The seller said he thought the change happened in the 50s, but I assumed that was a guess since he didn’t have the bike long. He could be right.
 
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Oilit

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
It may have been changed in the '60's, but I'd guess that hub is older. I wonder what years were those hubs produced? (Edit: '60's? I mis-read the year).
 
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rennfaron

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Don't quote me, far from an expert, but that looks like a Schwinn high flange free wheel rear hub. I know they were an option for my 41' so should be an option for yours too.
That's a good question. I am fairly sure there are different versions of the high flange hub that are associated with different points in time. Those type hubs are beyond me and it is the first one I have owned. Maybe someone that knows these well and the types/timelines can chime in on what they think. I added two more pics that show the hub a bit better. It has stamped "Schwinn" in script and "PAT. PENDING". Someone could have not wanted the coaster but did want to put parts that were of the age of the bike and put that on there, so not original, but period correct. Hard to know.

Per the age of the overall rust of the bike versus the rust on the chain ring, rear hub and crank it does seem like those parts are not original. Per @Oilit those parts were still on there a long time though.
 

1motime

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Why can't the rear hub be original? No reason for a coaster with caliper brakes. This is a platform bike so anything in the catalog was available?
Great bike. Probably not a lot of use. Looks like the atmosphere and time made the patina. Even with that the Persons seat has held up better than most Mesingers.
 
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rennfaron

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Why can't the rear hub be original? No reason for a coaster with caliper brakes. This is a platform bike so anything in the catalog was available?
Great bike. Probably not a lot of use. Looks like the atmosphere and time made the patina. Even than that the Persons seat has held up better than most Mesingers.
I agree, but don't know much about those hub types. I most likely would have thought that the rear hub was original if the seller had not said it was updated in his listing info and followed up and said the same again after I reached out. I reached back out to the seller just now and he said he got it around 10 years ago (I thought he flipped it quick) and the person he bought it from had it in the family for a long time. I can only assume that was information somewhat passed on to him from the previous long time owner or else he would not have brought it up and made such a point about it. The patina is from an outdoors life right off the coast of SoCal.

The listing said this, "The bike is original except that the original coaster-brake rear wheel was at some point swapped for a Schwinn single-speed freewheel, with a nice very high-flange hub. The change also required the change of the chainring to 1/2" pitch, from the original 1" pitch. Given these upgrade parts are also quite vintage, I suspect the change was made in the 1950s."
 

rennfaron

Wore out three sets of tires already!
Is it a tall frame? That would be an impressive score indeed, if it were.
You know what Mike... your question just now (cause I know you know these NWs well and wouldn't ask if you didn't question something) prompted me to reevaluate my eyeballing last night and take a tape out there and get some real measurements. I generally have these frame sizes locked in per a quick glance, but I unpacked this last night, basically in the dark with a head lamp on, and put it away today and was just leaning on my recollection of first impressions during the unboxing.

So when I initially saw the bike in the listing (first image), I was about 99% sure it was a large frame. I even took the image and overlaid it over other large frames I have on file. The geometry and sizing matched up. I was then 100% sure and pulled the trigger and had a large frame coming my way. When I pulled it out of the box last night, I eyeballed the gap on the head tube and then was 100% sure I had screwed up the frame size, got my wires crossed on the image and I bought a 21" frame... UNTIL you just asked that question. I ran outside and luckily have another NW up in the stand right now and it is a 21" frame. I took both measurements and waddya know, you're right and my initial instincts were right and it is a large frame. I am sure I would have realized my mistake at some point, but glad it happened now! On left is the other NW I have and measurement from center of crank top of seat post and on right is this bike.

...started a new job two weeks ago...need more sleep...haha

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