Andrew Gorman
Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
BSA made bicycle parts not complete bicycles. I agree with velootje. Still a very nice bike.
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BSA or not ?
- Thread starter redcub
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Wing Your Heel
Wore out three sets of tires already!
quote -they did make complete bicycles, motocycles, and guns
quote - BSA made bicycle parts not complete bicycles
Already answered - Before 1909 BSA did not make complete bicycles, but only sold components for people to build their own bicycles. The name we give such a bicycle is a 'BSA FITTINGS BIKE.' There are no records of numbers for early BSA bicycles, and in the era of your bicycle any frame could be used so a number is irrelevant. BSA Fittings were still sold even after 1909 - this enabled any small local bicycle shop to provide a bicycle with quality components to a customer for half the price of a regular quality bicycle. Your bicycle is quite similar to the one below, that I sold a few months ago to a customer in France -
http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/1912-2/...tern-fittings/
quote - BSA made bicycle parts not complete bicycles
Already answered - Before 1909 BSA did not make complete bicycles, but only sold components for people to build their own bicycles. The name we give such a bicycle is a 'BSA FITTINGS BIKE.' There are no records of numbers for early BSA bicycles, and in the era of your bicycle any frame could be used so a number is irrelevant. BSA Fittings were still sold even after 1909 - this enabled any small local bicycle shop to provide a bicycle with quality components to a customer for half the price of a regular quality bicycle. Your bicycle is quite similar to the one below, that I sold a few months ago to a customer in France -
http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/1912-2/...tern-fittings/
Andrew Gorman
Riding a '38 Autocycle Deluxe
Sheesh... BSA made high quality parts and some utility grade bikes. Calling a 1930's bike with BSA parts would be like calling a 1970's Falcon with the stickers peeled off a " Campanoglo". Look at the reprint 1938 Island Cycle Supply catalog and their top of the line bike had BSA bits but was not a BSA bike. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
Wing Your Heel
Wore out three sets of tires already!
Wilkepaedia says -
'Bicycle production ceased in 1887 as the company concentrated on producing the Lee-Metford magazine loading rifle for the War Office which was re-equipping the British Army with it. The order was for 1,200 rifles per week. BSA recommenced manufacturing bicycles on their own behalf from 1908'
Actually they announced it in 1909 for the 1910 season.
You will not see any genuine BSA safety bicycles. They made a few prototypes just before the first safety bike was launched in 1886, that's all. Copake will apparently have an ordinary in the next sale that the owner claims is a BSA, but it is not, it just has some BSA fittings.
As i said, most early bikes with BSA chainwheel are not BSA bicycles just fittings bicycles. You have to examine the frame carefully to see if that is a BSA too, eg headlock, rear dropouts, bb, lugs. All the info is easily accessible on the Bsabikes.co.uk website.
'Bicycle production ceased in 1887 as the company concentrated on producing the Lee-Metford magazine loading rifle for the War Office which was re-equipping the British Army with it. The order was for 1,200 rifles per week. BSA recommenced manufacturing bicycles on their own behalf from 1908'
Actually they announced it in 1909 for the 1910 season.
You will not see any genuine BSA safety bicycles. They made a few prototypes just before the first safety bike was launched in 1886, that's all. Copake will apparently have an ordinary in the next sale that the owner claims is a BSA, but it is not, it just has some BSA fittings.
As i said, most early bikes with BSA chainwheel are not BSA bicycles just fittings bicycles. You have to examine the frame carefully to see if that is a BSA too, eg headlock, rear dropouts, bb, lugs. All the info is easily accessible on the Bsabikes.co.uk website.
I saw a blank un-built frame HTS that is in a New York collection (about 10 years ago ) interesting you say prototypes do you know if any BSA labeled bikes were maketed just for the US in the 1880's -1890's ?
also I have learned not to trust fully wickepedia as a source a few years back I owned a lea-Francis motorcycle and their entry about it picturing my bike was so wrong it was wobbled the mind , but sometimes that all we have . thank you for the info
also I have learned not to trust fully wickepedia as a source a few years back I owned a lea-Francis motorcycle and their entry about it picturing my bike was so wrong it was wobbled the mind , but sometimes that all we have . thank you for the info
BSA made and sold over 1500 safety bicycles , Patented 21st nov 1884 , patn# 15342
Pryor to this the BSA factory had made some bicycles and tricycles under contract.
June 1888 decided to stop cycle manufacturing
again started in 1893 making parts
was decided to build complete cycles in the BSA factory in 1908.
From "Bartleet's Bicycle Book"
Just what Collin said---but it would be interesting to see an original BSA Safety---Was there one in the Bartleet collection? , which is now the British Museum of Transportation
Pryor to this the BSA factory had made some bicycles and tricycles under contract.
June 1888 decided to stop cycle manufacturing
again started in 1893 making parts
was decided to build complete cycles in the BSA factory in 1908.
From "Bartleet's Bicycle Book"
Just what Collin said---but it would be interesting to see an original BSA Safety---Was there one in the Bartleet collection? , which is now the British Museum of Transportation
Wing Your Heel
Wore out three sets of tires already!
Bartleet wrong quite often. I definitely would not depend on Wikipedia for facts, but they were just one of many sources showing BSA stopped making complete bikes.
Bsa produced an early history leaflet in 1918:
The output of B.S.A. safety bicycles and tricycles steadily increased during the next three years, but in 1887 the Government demand for rifles and ammunition rendered it incumbent upon the Company to temporarily discontinue the manufacture of bicycles and tricycles, and for six years nothing was done in this direction beyond the production of a limited quantity of Kelsey's Duplex Safety Bicycle Crank Axle Bearings. During those six years the Company manufactured not only rifles, but also large numbers of six-pounder and three-pounder cartridges for quick-firing guns.
A bit ambiguous, but they mean that parts manufacture recommenced: When the Government demand for rifles and ammunition somewhat declined, the Company once more was enabled to take up the manufacture of bicycles, and early in 1893 commenced the manufacture of safety bicycle hubs, examples of which were exhibited at the Crystal Palace Show that same year.
Remember that although they had stopped making bicycles in 1887, BSA components were still available from previous manufacture, so surviving bicycles (ordinaries) might exist with BSA parts.
It says that in 1908 they decided at a board meeting to start making complete bikes again. But they did not come onto the market in 1908.
In 1908, to meet the somewhat altered conditions of trade, it was considered advisable to manufacture complete B.S.A. Bicycles in the B.S.A. Factories. In announcing the new policy at the Annual Meeting the Chairman stated 'that the Company had decided to widen the policy in regard to the manufacture of complete bicycles. Hitherto only cycle agents were supplied with complete machines bearing an agent's transfer. In view of the somewhat altered conditions of the trade, it was considered advisable to manufacture a complete B.S.A. Bicycle, under the most rigid inspection, with the world-famed B.S.A. Fittings.
There would be one grade of machine-the highest possible quality only. The machine so offered to the public would be listed at a higher price than that at which bicycles built with B.S.A. Fittings had been sold by local agents and makers. The management believed that this would not only create a greater demand for B.S.A. productions, but that it would have a steadying effect on the cycle trade generally. Such a policy must tend to place the B.S.A. Fittings on a higher plane, and to a great extent prevent bicycles built with B.S.A. Fittings being sold at ridiculously low prices, showing little or no margin of profit to the retailer.' Although the new policy was severely criticised, events have proved that it not only helped the trade generally, but was much appreciated by the public. The complete B.S.A. Bicycle produced at The B.S.A. Company's works bears a special transfer.
The complete history leaflet reproduced here -
https://bsamuseum.wordpress.com/about/
Bear in mind that BSA Fittings provided customers with a much cheaper, but still top quality bicycle. BSA Fittings continued to be sold separately (alongside complete BSA bicycles), so Fittings bicycles continued to be made for many years after (particularly in Australia, where most manufacturers used BSA components)
Here's the 1900 BSA Fittings catalogue -
http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/1901-2/1900-bsa-fittings-catalogue/
Just to confuse matters, BSA did also make bicycle frames too in the early 20th century, which were BSA Spring-frames. These could be supplied By BSA as complete bicycles (in knock-down form). The idea of this was to provide the trade with a complete machine so they could fit an engine to create what was known at the time as a 'motor bicycle.' This was a particularly popular option in Australia.
A good example to understand the nature of a BSA Fittings Machine is this bike, which has a small local builder's decals, but is totally a BSA, i.e. all components plus the spring-frame made by BSA -
http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/1902-2/1904-bsa-spring-frame-roadster/
Bsa produced an early history leaflet in 1918:
The output of B.S.A. safety bicycles and tricycles steadily increased during the next three years, but in 1887 the Government demand for rifles and ammunition rendered it incumbent upon the Company to temporarily discontinue the manufacture of bicycles and tricycles, and for six years nothing was done in this direction beyond the production of a limited quantity of Kelsey's Duplex Safety Bicycle Crank Axle Bearings. During those six years the Company manufactured not only rifles, but also large numbers of six-pounder and three-pounder cartridges for quick-firing guns.
A bit ambiguous, but they mean that parts manufacture recommenced: When the Government demand for rifles and ammunition somewhat declined, the Company once more was enabled to take up the manufacture of bicycles, and early in 1893 commenced the manufacture of safety bicycle hubs, examples of which were exhibited at the Crystal Palace Show that same year.
Remember that although they had stopped making bicycles in 1887, BSA components were still available from previous manufacture, so surviving bicycles (ordinaries) might exist with BSA parts.
It says that in 1908 they decided at a board meeting to start making complete bikes again. But they did not come onto the market in 1908.
In 1908, to meet the somewhat altered conditions of trade, it was considered advisable to manufacture complete B.S.A. Bicycles in the B.S.A. Factories. In announcing the new policy at the Annual Meeting the Chairman stated 'that the Company had decided to widen the policy in regard to the manufacture of complete bicycles. Hitherto only cycle agents were supplied with complete machines bearing an agent's transfer. In view of the somewhat altered conditions of the trade, it was considered advisable to manufacture a complete B.S.A. Bicycle, under the most rigid inspection, with the world-famed B.S.A. Fittings.
There would be one grade of machine-the highest possible quality only. The machine so offered to the public would be listed at a higher price than that at which bicycles built with B.S.A. Fittings had been sold by local agents and makers. The management believed that this would not only create a greater demand for B.S.A. productions, but that it would have a steadying effect on the cycle trade generally. Such a policy must tend to place the B.S.A. Fittings on a higher plane, and to a great extent prevent bicycles built with B.S.A. Fittings being sold at ridiculously low prices, showing little or no margin of profit to the retailer.' Although the new policy was severely criticised, events have proved that it not only helped the trade generally, but was much appreciated by the public. The complete B.S.A. Bicycle produced at The B.S.A. Company's works bears a special transfer.
The complete history leaflet reproduced here -
https://bsamuseum.wordpress.com/about/
Bear in mind that BSA Fittings provided customers with a much cheaper, but still top quality bicycle. BSA Fittings continued to be sold separately (alongside complete BSA bicycles), so Fittings bicycles continued to be made for many years after (particularly in Australia, where most manufacturers used BSA components)
Here's the 1900 BSA Fittings catalogue -
http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/1901-2/1900-bsa-fittings-catalogue/
Just to confuse matters, BSA did also make bicycle frames too in the early 20th century, which were BSA Spring-frames. These could be supplied By BSA as complete bicycles (in knock-down form). The idea of this was to provide the trade with a complete machine so they could fit an engine to create what was known at the time as a 'motor bicycle.' This was a particularly popular option in Australia.
A good example to understand the nature of a BSA Fittings Machine is this bike, which has a small local builder's decals, but is totally a BSA, i.e. all components plus the spring-frame made by BSA -
http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/1902-2/1904-bsa-spring-frame-roadster/
oldbikejoe
On Training Wheels
Her crank is of the BSA third pattern 1904-1907. In 1908 they went to the BSA letters forming the crank frame structure.
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