rebirthbikes
I live for the CABE
A happy Saturday to all of you. I have a question regarding this bicycle. Before I begin, I would like to acknowledge that I have no claim to make about what this is and I'm not hoping to find out it's some uncovered gem. I am generally interested in learning more about it is all.
I bought this bicycle at an auction curated by one of our members in December of 2023. It was part of collection belonging to a long time collector. I will refrain from sharing this collector's name because my understanding was that he wished to remain anonymous. The provenance as it was told to me was that this bicycle was bought in the 90's at the Ann Arbor swap meet, it remained in the collectors basement until I bought it. As I understood it, it was an original paint late teens/early twenties Pope/Westfield built bicycle for the Charles William Stores in New York. I think it's easy to see why I fell in love with this machine from the get go. Until today, I've just had it on display in my studio.
Earlier today I was reading this posting: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/collection-of-complete-and-incomplete-bicycles.256807/
Specifically, posts #4 by @Bikermaniac and post #5 by @Freqman1 made me curious. My bicycle has quite a few of the same characteristics of the bicycle they reference as a possible Indian frame. I'm wondering if all of you could help. I assumed that the bicycle had been repainted at some point in its life. At least touched up here and there. Everything looks "too shiny" to me to be original, but I'm usually wrong. The chain ring clearly has the Pope script on it. The pedals are original Persons with OG Westfield blocks. There's a lot right with it!
BUT, where I began to question it today was in the front fork, the head badge, the bottom top bar, and the paint. The head badge screws are offset - the left side is higher than the right side, similar to Indian bikes and the fork on it does not match the catalog page I found, but @Archie Sturmer quickly diagnosed the 1918 catalog page as a Davis built Motor Bike Supreme for Charles Williams Stores. However, the front fork is the same fork found on some Indian bicycles. The bottom top bar also has a visible rear lug and the fish mouth joint in the front. When I flipped the bicycle over for the serial number I noticed some strange paint "spread" of the blue paint behind the serial numbers and I always thought that the red underneath was primer, but that got me curious, which is why I'm here. I used my fingernail to scratch away some buildup around the serial number to better identify the numbers and the blue easily flaked but the red remained.
Can someone help me understand more about this machine and whether or not it is an original Charles Williams Motor Bike Supreme or is it a repainted Indian?
To reiterate, I LOVE this machine whether it's an Motor Bike Supreme or an Indian. I just want to know more about it.
Serial Number appears to be: A67654
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
I bought this bicycle at an auction curated by one of our members in December of 2023. It was part of collection belonging to a long time collector. I will refrain from sharing this collector's name because my understanding was that he wished to remain anonymous. The provenance as it was told to me was that this bicycle was bought in the 90's at the Ann Arbor swap meet, it remained in the collectors basement until I bought it. As I understood it, it was an original paint late teens/early twenties Pope/Westfield built bicycle for the Charles William Stores in New York. I think it's easy to see why I fell in love with this machine from the get go. Until today, I've just had it on display in my studio.
Earlier today I was reading this posting: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/collection-of-complete-and-incomplete-bicycles.256807/
Specifically, posts #4 by @Bikermaniac and post #5 by @Freqman1 made me curious. My bicycle has quite a few of the same characteristics of the bicycle they reference as a possible Indian frame. I'm wondering if all of you could help. I assumed that the bicycle had been repainted at some point in its life. At least touched up here and there. Everything looks "too shiny" to me to be original, but I'm usually wrong. The chain ring clearly has the Pope script on it. The pedals are original Persons with OG Westfield blocks. There's a lot right with it!
BUT, where I began to question it today was in the front fork, the head badge, the bottom top bar, and the paint. The head badge screws are offset - the left side is higher than the right side, similar to Indian bikes and the fork on it does not match the catalog page I found, but @Archie Sturmer quickly diagnosed the 1918 catalog page as a Davis built Motor Bike Supreme for Charles Williams Stores. However, the front fork is the same fork found on some Indian bicycles. The bottom top bar also has a visible rear lug and the fish mouth joint in the front. When I flipped the bicycle over for the serial number I noticed some strange paint "spread" of the blue paint behind the serial numbers and I always thought that the red underneath was primer, but that got me curious, which is why I'm here. I used my fingernail to scratch away some buildup around the serial number to better identify the numbers and the blue easily flaked but the red remained.
Can someone help me understand more about this machine and whether or not it is an original Charles Williams Motor Bike Supreme or is it a repainted Indian?
To reiterate, I LOVE this machine whether it's an Motor Bike Supreme or an Indian. I just want to know more about it.
Serial Number appears to be: A67654
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
