Cleveland Welding S/N Project...See Page 58 Post 576 for chart

[jd56]

This is a dual springer (not installed yet) Roadmaster.
From what I have read here, this "J" prefix places this on in 1951
But, the owner wants to be sure. I don't own this one but, would like to confirm the year.
Serial is J29615 ACw.

Was originally black and the son of the original owner decided these colors were cool. Nicely redone seat from the early 70s. Below is a file picture of the son with the bike in 1968.

Thx....JD

 

[Jeff54]

1945-6 Western flyer CWC built Lady's

Need main basic date of serial number 'best guessed' and replied with some quotes so peps can see answer later please, Thanks

Here's another of the fabled C letter Post or during (?) war. Original color appears to be (under all the top paints), a maroon-red, and white boarded with green striping. The maroon-red appears wherever the white has been washed off, a little on fenders and inside the chain guard where white is rubbed off a larger area showing it. It's a good strong maroon-red that's in no way comparable to the colors painted over original. Whoever painted this, 2 different times in the past, spared the main areas of white which is currently original, boarded by green striping. .

Serial # C20452 A Cw .... (has anybody figured out the date for a C letter yet?) Note: photo of serial number bottom original color is white.. that's different because, there's nothing out there in pictures illustrating a pattern with white on lower portion of frame. And the pattern on the head post and bars is typical, all red with white on head post/bars.

This little girl will be going to the parts market soon.

I have not found maker of rims, containing Benix 70, Made in USA hub and brake arm. 26 x 2.15, current tire Otasco Flying O, maybe orig. tires I don't know cept they have triangles on tread that seem period.

Fork is just like Schwinn's, fender screw hole in center like Schwinn and even the white dart on it looks like them too. (not exactly white dart of Schwinn but very close. Close enough to confuse.) It had a rear carrier but all that's left is a piece of mount bracket on seat post clamp. has a center ribbed seat post bracket. If there wasn't so much over paint on this, could say if or not horn tanked. Yet, with other specials like, curved fender brackets and flat area for light, best handle grips and rear carrier, odds are very high it had a tank.

The truss rods and fork clip/holder are the same as pre-war. The fender's are where the maroon/red is uncovered, and have cool curved fender brackets as seen on many other different CWC made bikes. They'll likely get a sex change in part out,, it's a shame girls ain't' around to protect this market. However it's why I'm listing it inside the serial number thread. At least, if the day ever comes, and girls get put back together again, there's a record of the rarer earlier "C" letter? post war. numbered, types. Which is also why I'm trying to document/detailed description.

The front fender has a diamond flat area for mounting light or? They are Peaked fenders. White diamond with green pin-stripe around them, One on very front and one on tip in rear.

Chain guard is a cool art deco, 4 rib, with white on one rib that's boarded with a green striping/piping that's deep in the channel separating the ribs, also seen pre-war without the white stripe


Rear drop outs are as mentioned in this thread previously: invisible spot welds and the end of the frame tubes have a clean end showing no weld bead."

. There is a hole for chain guard but not fenders and of course, no ears at bottom of drop-outs.

Post war- Western Flyer modernized Head badge.

And, I have to say, when it comes to big fat, hefty and cool designs in handle grips,, Western Flyer, gets an award. (I even recall them as a kid in 60's when building stingrays from scrap, they were 1st choice but, not used only cause they weren't Schwinn. And by the 60's western flyer's made by Murray or Huffy were crap, so,, not a good idea then too. .)

The Chain-ring/ drive sprocket appears to be lady's only. I've searched tons of photos but none on boy/men's bikes.. for lack of a name i'm going with: Skip tooth 'turbo or cyclone hearts' Chainring.

Typical Troxel lady's seat, appear both pre and post war. And the goose neck, I don't know who made it but looks like an 1940's Schwinn, go figure?

.

Bendix 70, made in USA hub, unknown rims, Otasco Flying O 26 x 2.125 tires

This is a stamped embossed letter badge, they seem to appear post war, whereas western flyer's later badge looks very similar in design , ca. 1954 but, is flat screen printed .

Who wouldn't love these grips?

 

[ratina]

ACw was only used 50-51. Your Serial # C20452 A Cw dates to 1950.

 

[Jeff54]

ACw was only used 50-51. Your Serial # C20452 A Cw dates to 1950.

That's very odd, as, before reviewing this thread, 3 or more times. 1 there's other with similar date codes but with later letters D,F,G etc. that are being dated before 1950.. the single thing that is consistent with 1950 and later is when letter followed with 5 diget has date 51-56 followed by Cw. inside this thread. I did not notice any post with the '50Cw', which would represent 1950. however there's 51-56 noted.



But most importantly also before, I dug through 100's and 100's of the different types of photographs CWC bikes they'd made, and could not find a single one with the same features this girls bike has beyond 1949.

Skip tooth seems to have becoming phased out by 1950, and this frame has the "transitional" spot welded and brass rounded joints. Noted earlier as an indicator of 2nd generation of post war beginning about 1944-49. I did not remark because it's obvious in the photograph. top bar spot wield cross bar brazed.

I might of considered this frame to be a left over, but, really not likely as it's indicating all of the bonus points of being girls 2nd too the top of the line, which would be having a springer the top of the line. . . Curved Fender braces, special feature flat fender mount spot for light, rear carrier rack, truss rods and grips. which means also most likely to have had a tank. Those features put it 2nd top of the line types sold, and it's very unlikely top of line would be made with out-dated frame/parts. (turbo heart skip-tooth, combo brazed-spot wielding, and pre-war chain guard.)

Also of note, is the transition from Morrow and new departure to a bendix, and back too new departure again.

Have you taken the position that the 'A Cw' is not made prior too 1950? Presuming that A indicates 1950, hence 1951 '51 Cw' is when year dating was stamped in?

If so then, a bunch of prior date estimating in this thread is all out of wack.

 

[jpromo]

It is indeed a 1950 frame. The particular dropouts on your frame didn't start until 1950. CWC used skiptooth drivetrains as late as 1956, with only the top deluxe bikes switching over to 1/2" around 1948. This bike has been assembled from several other bikes, which is why you haven't seen one exactly like it. The fenders are from an earlier CWC bike, due to the curved braces. There's one straight brace probably because the curved one would not fit correctly on the frame it wasn't designed for.

 

[Jeff54]

It is indeed a 1950 frame. The particular dropouts on your frame didn't start until 1950. CWC used skiptooth drivetrains as late as 1956, with only the top deluxe bikes switching over to 1/2" around 1948. This bike has been assembled from several other bikes, which is why you haven't seen one exactly like it. The fenders are from an earlier CWC bike, due to the curved braces. There's one straight brace probably because the curved one would not fit correctly on the frame it wasn't designed for.

OK so help me get this straight.

This thread is very confusing, plenty data, and for whatever reasons, primaries didn't finish,, or? but many did not put all the asked for photographs, plus several replies when answered did not quote for reference which bike they're talking about. would be very helpful if somebody created a new thread, that put all the jumbled up pieces of this pie in order.

Regardless Is this the known 1950 drop out You're referring too? , dated 1953 in this thread, with U shaped cut out and oval hole for rack and guard?

BTW, I did not say I could not find the same bike when searching photographs , I did, but didn't save the 100's of photographs I'd seen. But,, in those searches I managed to estimate pre-1950. and it was the single straight fender bracket which helped me find it. Unfortunately it's out there in cyber space cause I didn't save photos I'd hunted through. Clever me, I were thunking that once I had the bike in my possession all me had to do was track serial number and wa-la, no need for other photos, ..

Or is that one above 1951-6 ,, and which time frame was this, obviously before the U shaped cut out for rack. I was under the impression this was 46-49 no? ( my bad, I'd said it only had 1 hole, in prior message, the fender bracket was covering the rack hole,,) So, it's 1 round for rack and 1 oval for chain guard, which was only made in 1950? or 46-49? ( The Pacman drop-out [grin]),

 

[jd56]

One more roadmaster serial decipher.
Not sure what year "H" is or could be. Guessing late 40s or early 50s.
It's a 3 gill.

It's all about the Tanklights!!

How did I run out of room so fast?

 

[user has retired]

Not 100% on date on this western flyer, late 40s, is what I'm going with at this point, serial # J93084 Cw

 

[user has retired]

Damn Tapatalk.

 

[jd56]

Pinched Crown Fork?

Again another CWC serial number decipher that I'm guessing at.
Owner said this was a 1936.

Serial is J95284 ...no suffix stamping.

There are two additional separate stamped number (I haven't seen the stamped numbers yet), that are stamped sideways with the "5" above the serial and an "8" below the serial. Not clear if these separate numbers are of the same font as the serial.
I'll assume these are an owner registration number(s) such as the local police dept would do or maybe the factory assembler stamping from CW.

Has rear dropstand ears with no welding attachment process.
Earlier chainring.
Not sure about the rear rack, would this be a prewar rack?
Has teardrop pedals and possibly a "Jiffy" stand in lieu of the missing dropstand.
Screwed Roadmaster headbadge

Also has what I'm guessing is termed "Pinched Crown" front fork?

When were these "pinched crown forks produced and is it a clear prewar era identifier?

The attached picture isn't the best quality but it is all I have at this point.

Any help on deciphering the year is appreciated.