Cycle truck rear drop out frame

[Schwinn Sales West]

I figure the frame is a 1939. The fenders a good . The stand an forks are post war .The wheels are from a 1951 or 1952 cycle truck. The rims are s2. They didn't start making them till 1948. So I'm going to need those parts. So If some one want to do some trading or sale .some parts I would be interested . Mike

The front fender is also likely a Post War part. It has the "semi tubular" fender braces, and not the "flat braces" like used on the early frames to allow them to work with the axle mounted center stand. It was normal for the Pre War CT's to have fender braces that did not match front to rear.

One thing to remember when discussing CT's is they were intended to be commercial vehicles; they lived a very long and harsh life. The Post Office CT's were serviced by Schwinn Dealers that bid on an annual service contract. They stocked repair service parts in their trucks and visited these local Post Offices and repaired the bikes "on site" by just exchanging the parts (then rebuilding the parts back in their shop). They had absolutely no concern about keeping the replacement parts "vintage correct", just stick on an available replacement and get the bike back on the road. If the Pre War fork was broken, no problem, just install a Post War fork, a new style Center Stand, and a new Front Fender that fit. This is why you find CT's with rim styles that do not match. In the Phoenix, AZ area Landis Cyclery held the Post Office Service Contract. In Modesto, CA Bob's Cyclery (Bob Boranian) on Yosemite did all of the CT repair work for the Gallo Winery Glass factory Cycle Trucks into the mid 1980's.

John

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

I just like to add that if Schwinn did build up in 45 and 46 they would have actual rear dropouts along with all their new electro forging joints.

I believe you are correct to question the large number of Cycle Trucks shown as manufactured during 1943 and 1944 (combined over 20,000). First materials were in very short supply during the war years. You would need 40,000 rubber tires, and 40,000 rubber inner tubes to hit that number. Let's not consider that Schwinn was under the very restricted Victory Model only rules. F.W. Schwinn was a very sharp and frugal businessman, and he would never speculate his money on building 20,000 "very special" models that had a very limited potential customer base. Nobody purchased Cycle Trucks except businesses with warehouses and special delivery needs.

Where would you hide 20,000 new Schwinn Cycle Trucks in 1943-44? Assuming that F.W. would never have special ordered the parts (hubs, spokes, steel) to build them without a bonified contract, I'd make my guess they were ordered "as a single contract" by the U.S. Government and shipped to a government storage facility like the massive Sharp Army Depot in Stockton, CA. When I was a kid growing up during the 1950's, every corner distribution mailbox was painted Olive Drab Green. Every Schwinn Cycle Truck that was chained to the mailbox was painted Olive Drab Green, just like the mailboxes. It was not until the post office adopted their MR. Zip (code) advertising that the mailboxes and the Cycle Trucks were repainted red and blue. This is why I have the belief that the U.S. Post Office never purchased their Cycle Trucks from Schwinn (or a Schwinn Dealer), but from a abundance of units liquidated in an Army Surplus Sale. When I called on Bob's Cyclery in Modesto during the early 1980's, Bob told me that Gallo's glass factory had 30-40 Schwinn Cycle Trucks and he had replaced some of them with Worksman units after Schwinn stopped production in 1967. Modesto is not located very far from the Sharp Army Depot.

Just my speculation until someone comes up with a more logical guess.

John

 

[Mike Kowal]

Thank you for all the info. You guy’s are a wealth of knowledge Just started to get into bicycles. I restore older motorcycles. Mike

 

[Mercian]

I believe you are correct to question the large number of Cycle Trucks shown as manufactured during 1943 and 1944 (combined over 20,000). First materials were in very short supply during the war years. You would need 40,000 rubber tires, and 40,000 rubber inner tubes to hit that number. Let's not consider that Schwinn was under the very restricted Victory Model only rules. F.W. Schwinn was a very sharp and frugal businessman, and he would never speculate his money on building 20,000 "very special" models that had a very limited potential customer base. Nobody purchased Cycle Trucks except businesses with warehouses and special delivery needs.

Where would you hide 20,000 new Schwinn Cycle Trucks in 1943-44? Assuming that F.W. would never have special ordered the parts (hubs, spokes, steel) to build them without a bonified contract, I'd make my guess they were ordered "as a single contract" by the U.S. Government and shipped to a government storage facility like the massive Sharp Army Depot in Stockton, CA. When I was a kid growing up during the 1950's, every corner distribution mailbox was painted Olive Drab Green. Every Schwinn Cycle Truck that was chained to the mailbox was painted Olive Drab Green, just like the mailboxes. It was not until the post office adopted their MR. Zip (code) advertising that the mailboxes and the Cycle Trucks were repainted red and blue. This is why I have the belief that the U.S. Post Office never purchased their Cycle Trucks from Schwinn (or a Schwinn Dealer), but from a abundance of units liquidated in an Army Surplus Sale. When I called on Bob's Cyclery in Modesto during the early 1980's, Bob told me that Gallo's glass factory had 30-40 Schwinn Cycle Trucks and he had replaced some of them with Worksman units after Schwinn stopped production in 1967. Modesto is not located very far from the Sharp Army Depot.

Just my speculation until someone comes up with a more logical guess.

John

Hi John,

I agree that the large quantity at that time is a difficult thing to explain, for the reasons you've given . Shortage of materials, difficulty in Schwinn producing and storing a niche model, etc.

However, I don't think it was done for the US Government (directly).

Post war in 1946 there was an accounting for all wartime contracts over $50000 published.

This covered all military and government purchases from the period.

Schwinn made major wartime contributions, but no bicycles purchases over $50000 are recorded for government contracts.
I would think that even a series of smaller contracts of, say, 8 x 2500 bikes would each be worth more than $50000 so I don't think that the production is hidden by it being less than $50000

But the bikes are recorded as produced, and in difficult times. So there must have been a major non government need for them.

We know they were used on some major industrial sites, so perhaps it's that? Private purchase in large numbers for factory/warehousing use?

Speculation on my part too, (-:

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

Hi John,

I agree that the large quantity at that time is a difficult thing to explain, for the reasons you've given . Shortage of materials, difficulty in Schwinn producing and storing a niche model, etc.

However, I don't think it was done for the US Government (directly).

Post war in 1946 there was an accounting for all wartime contracts over $50000 published.

View attachment 2374227

This covered all military and government purchases from the period.

View attachment 2374226

Schwinn made major wartime contributions, but no bicycles purchases over $50000 are recorded for government contracts.
I would think that even a series of smaller contracts of, say, 8 x 2500 bikes would each be worth more than $50000 so I don't think that the production is hidden by it being less than $50000

View attachment 2374232

View attachment 2374231

But the bikes are recorded as produced, and in difficult times. So there must have been a major non government need for them.

We know they were used on some major industrial sites, so perhaps it's that? Private purchase in large numbers for factory/warehousing use?

Speculation on my part too, (-:

Best Regards,

Adrian

Thanks, Adrian very interesting back up information, appreciated.

Maybe we will never know the real story behind the accounting numbers on the Schwinn documents. I think we all agree that over 20,000 units in the numbers of Pre War Cycle Trucks for 1943 and 1944 production stands out like a red flag compared to the 2,000 units per year in the other years listed. I believe the combined total is likely accurate based on the large number of prewar Cycle Trucks still riding the streets today after eighty years.

During this "restricted materials war time period" it would be difficult for any small privately owned company, or Schwinn distributor to place an order and have Schwinn build 20,000 of "any model" much less a "special use model" like the Cycle Trucks. Having a connection to the government seems like the most logical assumption. Until this topic is fully resolved and documented it will forever be known as:

THE SCHWINN CYCLE TRUCK WAR TIME PRODUCTION ACCOUNTING CONSPIRICY, don't ride your Pre War Cycle Truck without wearing your foil hats.

We will soon see Congress take up the issue and open congressional hearings to get at the bottom of this important story. Someone either embezzled the money or got 20,000 Cycle Trucks for free. The only thing we know for sure is that F. W. Schwinn did not ship 20,000 Cycle Trucks over a two-year period without getting paid for his work. F.W. Schwinn would have known if 20,000 washers were missing out of his factory.

Where else but on the CABE can life and death issues be dissected and resolved? It's no wonder we have members melting down when the CABE takes more than five minutes to reboot in the middle of the night while normal "non-bicycle" people are sleeping.

John