Morrow hub identification?

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Ricollector

Finally riding a big boys bike
Sep 17, 2018
123
50
Clio
What does the S stamped into the brake arm signify? Also, why wouldn't this hub be chromed? I think it is nickel plating?
Thank you for any information.

IMG_5423.JPG
 

fordmike65

Riding a '37 Colson Imperial
Mar 4, 2012
19,587
East Los
Because it's a Wartime"Blackout" hub & the surface has either worn away or been stripped.

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/serial-number-and-date-code-information.71542/#post-441223
Morrow Coaster Brake Hub:

Letter and number note the year and quarter of production.
Example: I 3 = produced 1939 July-September

Note: many hubs are marked 36-13, this is not the date code, it notes the # spoke holes and size.

A - 1931
B - 1932
C - 1933
D - 1934
E - 1935
F - 1936
G - 1937
H - 1938
I - 1939
J - 1940
K - 1941
L - 1942
M - 1943
N - 1944
O - 1945
P - 1946
Q - 1947
R - 1948
S - 1949
T - 1950
 

Ricollector

Finally riding a big boys bike
Sep 17, 2018
123
50
Clio
Thank you for the information. Still wondering about the "s" stamped into the brake arm? I think I will just clean the hub as is and not replate it for my restoration.
 

fordmike65

Riding a '37 Colson Imperial
Mar 4, 2012
19,587
East Los
Thank you for the information. Still wondering about the "s" stamped into the brake arm? I think I will just clean the hub as is and not replate it for my restoration.
No idea what that S means. Interesting...
 

Krakatoa

Cruisin' on my Bluebird
Oct 12, 2016
3,709
Warren, RI, United States
I don't think it's a blackout hub Mike. If the last number is 10 then it's a heavy duty hub and would be correct for G519 military bikes and also service bikes and cycletrucks. These hubs had a Parkerized finish which has a dull sheen.

At some point during the war Morrow started doing the blackout finishes on next hubs to come down the supply chain. Shaun's example he has for sale doesn't note the date coding or spoke gauge. I have had three or four Morrow blackout hubs and they were all dated 45 and none of them had the 10 gauge spokes they were 13 gauge.

@Mercian
 

Ricollector

Finally riding a big boys bike
Sep 17, 2018
123
50
Clio
Yes, I would agree with you. The hub I have is as a M4.....36....10 marking. This hub came off of a prewar cycle-truck. I am guessing that the dull finish plating is nickle only. Because of the war, they didn't chrome because of cost. Nickle plating is a step in the process before chrome. The blackout is paint over nickle for the later hubs.
 

fordmike65

Riding a '37 Colson Imperial
Mar 4, 2012
19,587
East Los
I don't think it's a blackout hub Mike. If the last number is 10 then it's a heavy duty hub and would be correct for G519 military bikes and also service bikes and cycletrucks. These hubs had a Parkerized finish which has a dull sheen.

At some point during the war Morrow started doing the blackout finishes on next hubs to come down the supply chain. Shaun's example he has for sale doesn't note the date coding or spoke gauge. I have had three or four Morrow blackout hubs and they were all dated 45 and none of them had the 10 gauge spokes they were 13 gauge.

@Mercian
My mistake then. I was under the impression that "blackout" hubs were indeed Parkerized? I hope I'm not cornfusing anyone.
 

Mercian

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jul 1, 2016
471
52
France
Hi, late to the party, but I agree with Krakatoa and Mike,

M4, last quarter of 1943, 36 10, heavy duty spokes. Since only Military G519 bikes from Huffman or Westfield were getting these at this point, it's either off one of these, or a spare produced at the time. M4 would have been used on bikes at the very end of production.

They were originally Parkerised, and these has generally lasted better than plating. Here's some shots of mine from quarter 2 1943.

Photo A802A.jpg


Photo A804A.jpg


Below is the original arm, not marked S, but, as you can see, unplated. I have seen the S on other arms, but never thought about it.

Photo A811A.jpg


I hope this helps,

Best regards,

Adrian

PS, pm'd too.
 
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rustjunkie

Moderator
Staff member
Jul 11, 2012
13,329
Monrovia, CA 91016
www.rustjunkies.com
Note the difference in the Morrow "script"

1542397701987.png


1542397723075.png


A theory is that the type shown marked with "S" are replacements. Over the years many boxes of NOS replacement arms have surfaced, every one I've seen has been filled with that type of script. I don't recall if any or all were marked with a letter.
 

Mercian

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jul 1, 2016
471
52
France
Hi Rustjunkie,

I hate you, I'm going to be looking at Morrow arm script now ! (-:

You are right, the S marked one has a plain line under the script.

My ww2 one has a outlined thicker underline, cut off square at the end.

I've just looked at my WW1 one (the only other example I have here), it has an outlined thicker underline, but tapered to a point at the end.

Perhaps S is for subcontracted pieces (based on total guesswork?)

Best Regards,

Adrian
 
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Mercian

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jul 1, 2016
471
52
France
= Rustjunkie
or perhaps a date code? s=1949?

just looked at some nos arms on eBay, non-stylized script, no extra letter
As good a theory as mine, that's for certain. Some 1949 dated hubs with these arms would help corroborate this.

Best Regards,

Adrian
 

Mercian

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jul 1, 2016
471
52
France
And just to add to the complication, here is a nice 1949 one currently for sale by Mr.cycleplane.

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1949-morrow-hub-excellant.142495/

No way of knowing if the arm is original, but always a good chance. It has the stylised script close to the 1943 example, but the shape of the arm is different to either the WW1, 1943 or S marked ones.

S could be as simple as Spare, but why would you do that? Dating, or indicating subcontracted pieces makes sense for quality control.

Best Regards,

Adrian
 

blackcat

Finally riding a big boys bike
Apr 4, 2017
163
54
Le Raincy, France
Because it's a Wartime"Blackout" hub & the surface has either worn away or been stripped.

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/serial-number-and-date-code-information.71542/#post-441223
Morrow Coaster Brake Hub:

Letter and number note the year and quarter of production.
Example: I 3 = produced 1939 July-September

Note: many hubs are marked 36-13, this is not the date code, it notes the # spoke holes and size.

A - 1931
B - 1932
C - 1933
D - 1934
E - 1935
F - 1936
G - 1937
H - 1938
I - 1939
J - 1940
K - 1941
L - 1942
M - 1943
N - 1944
O - 1945
P - 1946
Q - 1947
R - 1948
S - 1949
T - 1950

Hello;
Here my G519 NOS MORROW hub U3, after Bozman 1952.
20180403_120644.jpg

20181117_161200.jpg



I just got a rear wheel G519 M4 36-10 for my COLUMBIA in restoration with S stamped on the brake arm.
I think it is not original because there are 1939 and 1946 parts inside.
20181117_153502.jpg

Regards;
Serge
 
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Mercian

Finally riding a big boys bike
Jul 1, 2016
471
52
France
Hi All,

Serge, thanks for reminding me about your green hub. It also has the 'straight arm seen on the post war Morrows (and, I think, on the Bendix hubs which followed). Here is anther example of a straight arm from 1947 Q4. This helps support the 1952 date of your green hub.

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/nos-morrow-hub-in-box.142990/#post-954608

Your G519 arm is interesting, because it has the ornate script and an S, the other S types so far are simple script.

And here is a just prewar 1939 with the necked arm, and ornate script, without an S.

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/morrow-eclipse-machine-pre-war-heavy-duty-spokes-skip-9-tooth-hub-whizzer.142977/

Best Regards,

Adrian
 
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blackcat

Finally riding a big boys bike
Apr 4, 2017
163
54
Le Raincy, France
Hello;
To complete, going back the wheel of my M306, i noticed the S stamped on the original brake arm of the hub M3 but on the inside.
20190519_174431.jpg

20190518_182029.jpg


Regards;
Serge
 
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Vintage-Whizzer

Finally riding a big boys bike
Apr 2, 2017
215
Portland, United States
Anybody have one of these heavy duty Morrow hubs that they would sell or partial trade for a standard prewar Morrow hub?
 
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