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Old versus new bicycles

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I've been a bike mechanic for a decade working on mid-to-high end bikes new, and working on all levels and ages of bikes old. I will say I came into this profession preferring the older stuff, but oh my god have things improved in every conceivable way on modern bikes. Not EVERYTHING is to my liking, but the modern geometry on a lot of the steel touring and gravel bikes is designed for an actual human being unlike bikes of old. The ride quality is amazing, which is nothing new, but many new bikes ride like butter, especially when you add things like a tubeless setup and some nice cushy tires. A good set of hydraulic disc brakes or even V-brakes will stop on a dime whereas many older caliper brakes are merely a suggestion.

Now if we are talking strictly high end aluminum or carbon bikes, yeah the durability may not be up there if you're used to the absolute 50-pounds tanks like older Schwinns, etc, but performance-oriented riders who are paying $3000+ for a performance bike don't want that either. If you're in the industry long enough, you'll see which bikes are "for you" and which ones arent. There are way more flavors today than there were even in 1990. If you like the older steel bikes, there are many modern bikes that will float your boat. The setup for a lot of this stuff is really not that much different than setting a bike up in the early 90s aside from weird one-off stupid designs from Shimano that only last a single model year or two. At the moment most of the current generation stuff is great despite some design duds in the past few years. In my decade of working at the shop we have only had to warranty maybe 1 or 2 frames for failures, both of which were approaching 15-20 years. The durability is not anything to worry about.

The only real complaints I have are some of the notoriously bad designs where they take a decades-old existing, reliable standard and try to overhaul it for...reasons. But the designs require precise tolerances that can't be met by basic inexpensive production methods. Stuff like BB30 for example was the bane of my existence for a while. Thankfully we have sales reps who we can complain to and even if they do damage control and act like nothings wrong, we tend to see those stupid technologies go the way of the dodo within about 5 years once they can't hide their mistakes any longer. Cannondale for example have returned to good old fashioned english threaded bottom brackets on a lot of their formerly-pressfit bikes. Thank god.

A lot of engineering goes into making the new systems shift without error, and smoothly, which is something that certainly not be said about any derailleur bike prior to maybe 1989 or so. And all that technology has trickled down so even the low-end bikes have systems with millions of dollars of R&D that have been borrowed. If anything even the cheapest bikes are miles ahead than the department store bikes of old....as long as an actual shop goes through and assembles and adjusts them correctly. Realistically the stuff isn't hard to set up at all, but you have to be sure of certain things...smooth moving cables, straight derailleur hangers etc. Nothing new either...

Now I'm a car guy, and I HATE modern cars. Completely. The technology, the hand-holding, the bulkiness, etc. But remember that they are absolutely perfect for the modern consumer. That's what they want. I want a thing I can fix on the side of the road with a screwdriver and an adjustable wrench. They want a thing that never ever breaks in the 10 years they keep it before selling it. There's an element of that in any transportation industry and bicycles are no different, except I've really come to appreciate the improvements since they are still (mostly) fully mechanical machines that can be fixed with simple tools no matter how much money has been pumped into the technology. The hydraulic stuff is a bit of an exception, and don't even get me started on the electronic shifting systems....but you don't have to have that stuff if you dont want it. Yet.

Stick around for a while and you'll go from being the guy at the shop who hates setting up disc brakes to the guy at the shop who can dial them in in less than a minute. Trust me. Practice makes perfect.
Sounds like you and eye see eye to eye on cars... too many unneeded things going on, too much over complication. As for bikes, what bothers me is the poor quality of a lot of the small components and a lot of poor design on small fittings. After 30 plus years in engineering in the automotive industry, mostly in bearings, as well as 40 plus years of maintaining and repairing motorcycles for myself and a lot of my friends I see a lot of silly details on the bikes I’m working on that would make the overall package easier to set up and maintain as well as longer lasting if improved.

they are wonderful running machines and ridiculously light but I just think they could be so much better with a little more care in design. Easier to service and more robust.

now... back to automobiles.... don’t get me started on those... Oi!!!
 
The only advancement in the last 20 years I would be unhappy with losing is the clutched rear derailleur.

I got my first "real mountain bike" in 2004 which was a 2003 Trek 4500 with linear pull brakes. Nothing special, but chainsuck and chainslap was a real PITA. From there I got a brand new full suspension bike in 2005 which really upped the speed experience downhill with 5" of travel front and rear and mechanical disc brakes. Still sucky slappy chain but it stopped just as well as the linear pull rim brakes. It did do better in wet weather than the rubber on rim setup of the older style.

I sold that off and got a Rigid Steel Single speed 29er with disc brakes which was an absolute dream. No more skipping gears or missed shifts. Point up the hill and go. Old tech with new brakes. Point down the hill and hang on! Sometimes I had to walk, but so what, Sometimes I had to walk with the other bikes too.

Fast forward a 10 years and I upgraded to another steel framed multispeed bike with through-axles front and rear and a tapered head tube. What did those do for me? I don't know. I can't tell. But what I CAN appreciate, is I don't have missed shifts or chain slap anymore due to the rear derailleur using a clutch.

When I look at my 1935 Huffman, my modern bike is a metallurgical marvel. Nice TIG welds, great steel. It makes the Huffman look like a pile of scrap.

My Bike for Gravel is a 1997 Bontrager Privateer with smooth 26" x 2" tires. It's not super fast, but it'll climb anything and descend with confidence. Before that I had a 1986 Miyata 610 Sport/Touring bike. I still have it, and regularly ride road and single track using Cantiliver Brakes. They work fine.

The new "Standards" are what annoy me most. It's a cash grab to sell "newest/best" and keep the expected exponential growth of bicycle companies going strong. Plus, these "standards" change so frequently they should be called "fads" instead. Try finding a replacement 26" Suspension fork for a straight 1-1/8" steerer. They almost don't exist. for 1" steerer? Ha—whatever. Hubs? MTBs in particular have so many different axle spacings and hardware that it's hard to keep track of. Just throw it all away and buy a new one. The bicycle industry has worked planned obsolescence to the forefront their M.O. and it's not going to stop any time soon.
 
A few replies where I touched a nerve appear to have been deleted, so let me clarify:

If we are talking about a Bendix coaster brake, or 3-speed Sturmey Archer AW bicycle from say 1960 or so, compared to a department store full-suspension garbage bike from 2015, yes the old stuff is bulletproof and rebuildable and will never die. You'll never see me on a modern low-end bicycle. You WILL see me on one of my Schwinn cantilever frames. The 1960 bike will be able to be fixed forever and ever. Bulletproof. Modern dept store bike? Even with a proper assembly, it won't last. Plastic shifters, plastic derailleurs, some of which don't even work new out of the box. I will not defend those at all, they are truly disposable. We throw several away each year because if the repair cost is above $30, they aren't worth fixing.

If we are comparing a mid-to-low range modern bike to a department store 10-speed from say, 1974...I'd take the modern mid-range bike all day. THAT stuff was truly garbage, some of the worst-riding bicycles ever. We work on a lot of mid-range bikes from the 80s-90s however, and they still work great, compatible parts are effortless to find, and the quality is excellent. Most current stuff is on par with the offerings from that era. It's not "bulletproof" like a 1960 Schwinn, but it's also not disposable garbage either. With proper maintenance, they'll serve their purpose for decades no problem.

So what I'd say is: you want a bike that never ever needs much and just works and works, a very simple coaster-brake schwinn from the 60s will serve that purpose. If you want an extremely reliable multi-speed versatile bike for daily commuter duties or whatever, most mid-range bikes from 1990-today will work fine. You get what you pay for. But cyclists are finnicky and the companies wouldn't be doing themselves any favors putting out a $1000 bike that doesn't work or breaks after 200 miles of riding. That's exaggerating.

And I don't own our shop, I'm just a mechanic. and I love vintage bikes, that's our specialty!

Love the site, love old bikes. I wouldn't be here if I didn't. But it's ok to love old bikes and love modern bikes too. Trust me, it's allowed.
 
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The new "Standards" are what annoy me most. It's a cash grab to sell "newest/best" and keep the expected exponential growth of bicycle companies going strong. Plus, these "standards" change so frequently they should be called "fads" instead. Try finding a replacement 26" Suspension fork for a straight 1-1/8" steerer. They almost don't exist. for 1" steerer? Ha—whatever. Hubs? MTBs in particular have so many different axle spacings and hardware that it's hard to keep track of. Just throw it all away and buy a new one. The bicycle industry has worked planned obsolescence into their M.O. and it's not going to stop any time soon.
THIS is true. 100%. It's not so much the quality that suffers lately, it's the random changes to hub width, through-axles, headtube sizing, bottom bracket standards, cable-pull....yeah that's not fun to deal with at all.
 
I will chime in. It depends.😗 On many things right? How much do you actually ride high miles on your new gear? Most don't. How much to you weigh? Do you abuse in any way your bike off jumps or crashes alot then complain you broke your frame or crankset? Why? You can't expect it to not be affected.
Most everything can be broken regardless of when it was made. If you do actually ride high miles and it's a lifestyle, you weed out the BS stuff (new and vintage) that doesn't hold up. Most new Bicycle "improvements" are rammed down our throats with no real benefit IMO. As mentioned some new ideas are great, but how many actually enhance your riding experience? Depends. Do you race or ride 5-6 days a week? It matters in order to answer the OP's question. Alu vs Carbon vs Steel. New vs Old. There is a reason steel was used for all vintage frames/forks and still is: Always has been a proven, high flex cycle material
ideal for cycle frames and forks. Carbon frames/forks, seatposts and bars have come around full circle and now are quite high quality and dependable. These whiz-bang components and frames when they 1st appeared on the scene were breaking.....alot. Now, unless you abuse it or crash badly, a Carbon high end frame should outlast you, whoever you are. My Ibis Mojo SL has 5,000 hard technical, rough miles under my aggressive 200lb style, and it never flinched and is still going strong. I upgraded last year to a Mojo3 for good reason but kept the SL. Proven to be not disposable. Materials technology has advanced big time, creating lightweight and complicated machines that are impressive. For my fat ass, aluminum is not an option on MTB frames, as I was able to break every single one of them (all high end) JRA within 500 miles of normal MTB-ing. Never crashed, left the ground or abused the frame. Trek, GT, Supergo, Kona and Norco hated me....lost money replacing my frames all the time. My 150lb mtb buddies I ride with don't break their aluminum gear simply because of their weight. Modern bike companies design for the average Joe, not the hammerhead. Beware used aluminum mountain bikes. If riding is a lifestyle, something on your bike will fail or wear out, new or old, but so do steel skiptooth chains, chainrings, cones, races and cogs. Modern bikes are so different than Vintage it is like comparing apples & oranges. And lastly, I do think some old components(not all) are suberb-ly unsurpassable in materials quality and machine finish....a good example is the Sachs H3111 or 515 3-spd Coaster hub...or the Duomatic two speed kickback. Properly maintained IT will outlast you. Of course there are alot of the vintage steel frames still around for a reason and allows us to enjoy our scarce and cool machines in many different ways.

1645652612293.jpeg
 
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I've been a bike mechanic for a decade working on mid-to-high end bikes new, and working on all levels and ages of bikes old. I will say I came into this profession preferring the older stuff, but oh my god have things improved in every conceivable way on modern bikes. Not EVERYTHING is to my liking, but the modern geometry on a lot of the steel touring and gravel bikes is designed for an actual human being unlike bikes of old. The ride quality is amazing, which is nothing new, but many new bikes ride like butter, especially when you add things like a tubeless setup and some nice cushy tires. A good set of hydraulic disc brakes or even V-brakes will stop on a dime whereas many older caliper brakes are merely a suggestion.

Now if we are talking strictly high end aluminum or carbon bikes, yeah the durability may not be up there if you're used to the absolute 50-pounds tanks like older Schwinns, etc, but performance-oriented riders who are paying $3000+ for a performance bike don't want that either. If you're in the industry long enough, you'll see which bikes are "for you" and which ones arent. There are way more flavors today than there were even in 1990. If you like the older steel bikes, there are many modern bikes that will float your boat. The setup for a lot of this stuff is really not that much different than setting a bike up in the early 90s aside from weird one-off stupid designs from Shimano that only last a single model year or two. At the moment most of the current generation stuff is great despite some design duds in the past few years. In my decade of working at the shop we have only had to warranty maybe 1 or 2 frames for failures, both of which were approaching 15-20 years. The durability is not anything to worry about.

The only real complaints I have are some of the notoriously bad designs where they take a decades-old existing, reliable standard and try to overhaul it for...reasons. But the designs require precise tolerances that can't be met by basic inexpensive production methods. Stuff like BB30 for example was the bane of my existence for a while. Thankfully we have sales reps who we can complain to and even if they do damage control and act like nothings wrong, we tend to see those stupid technologies go the way of the dodo within about 5 years once they can't hide their mistakes any longer. Cannondale for example have returned to good old fashioned english threaded bottom brackets on a lot of their formerly-pressfit bikes. Thank god.

A lot of engineering goes into making the new systems shift without error, and smoothly, which is something that certainly not be said about any derailleur bike prior to maybe 1989 or so. And all that technology has trickled down so even the low-end bikes have systems with millions of dollars of R&D that have been borrowed. If anything even the cheapest bikes are miles ahead than the department store bikes of old....as long as an actual shop goes through and assembles and adjusts them correctly. Realistically the stuff isn't hard to set up at all, but you have to be sure of certain things...smooth moving cables, straight derailleur hangers etc. Nothing new either...

Now I'm a car guy, and I HATE modern cars. Completely. The technology, the hand-holding, the bulkiness, etc. But remember that they are absolutely perfect for the modern consumer. That's what they want. I want a thing I can fix on the side of the road with a screwdriver and an adjustable wrench. They want a thing that never ever breaks in the 10 years they keep it before selling it. There's an element of that in any transportation industry and bicycles are no different, except I've really come to appreciate the improvements since they are still (mostly) fully mechanical machines that can be fixed with simple tools no matter how much money has been pumped into the technology. The hydraulic stuff is a bit of an exception, and don't even get me started on the electronic shifting systems....but you don't have to have that stuff if you dont want it. Yet.

Stick around for a while and you'll go from being the guy at the shop who hates setting up disc brakes to the guy at the shop who can dial them in in less than a minute. Trust me. Practice makes perfect.
Most old bicycles weren't meant for humans they were for children, lol!

V/r,
Sean
 
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