Identified Please help positively ID this TOC to Teens Camelback frameset with undersized bottom bracket. Turns out to be Great Western Manufacturing!

[WillWork4Parts]

I've had this one for a bit, with no luck IDing at a couple swap meets. I put this one on the stand with the hopes of trying out the new headtube straightening tool. I managed to straighten part of the headtube damage with the little brute fork jack years ago. The fork partially came back to shape too, but I stopped while I was ahead, before bending the crown forward.

I've spotted a very similar sprocket in this thread. https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/sprocket-compilation-pic-heavy.41683/post-1645233 Identified on the shadow board as Fauber made, earlier in the thread there is an actual picture of one identified as being from a Great Western Manufacturing bike, but that one has a couple more rounded features. From what I've seen so far, GWM has a threaded bottom bracket with notches. This frame in question has undersized BB with press in cups. Not seeing the typical jam nut on the left side, or room for one. I'll work at tearing it all down today and post pictures as I go.

The more I look at it, this is a parts bike, but I'd like to properly ID the maker so I can move the crank and bottom bracket assembly on to the proper home where it is needed. Finding this crack at the seat tube yesterday seals the deal on parting it out.

It has a clad rim in the rear that spins Very freely. The hub is Morrow, but I can barely read the text in the middle, short of using developer and a magnifying glass...I can read the patent date starting with 190?, but nothing else.

Early wire brace fenders have been rigged on...

Finally, badge spacing...

Please let me know if you have any better info on what this is.
Thanks in advance!

 

[Archie Sturmer]

Great Western Mfg., La Porte, Ind. might be the best bet. It seems that in the early 1920’s, GWM dropped the threaded mess; but then adopted common 2” ID size.
The fork crown, badge fastener spacing, and fender details, all look GWM.

A Finnish site (Velobia, Helsinki?) once sold conversion adapters from (45-46 mm?) press-in to English (1.37”-24?) threaded.
They also offered the Fauber 45mm threaded to 36mm Italian adapters, (but maybe they sold-out of them both?).

We see 2 of the 3 notches (normally for a spanner tool to remove threaded cups), so maybe the press-in cups could be pictured after removal?

Is the head tube (and forks) an intermediate 4” size, (or other)? I believe that GWM headsets measured about 35mm or 1+3/8”.

 

[Iverider]

I believe those wire fenders are legit. I assume you mean the interesting method of fastening the wire brace to the flat stock that then attaches to the fender.
I have a set that are also fastened this way and was told they are commonly used on Great Western Bikes.

It also appears that the cup you have posted has some notches in it to accept a lockring spanner and there's also evidence of hamfisted use of channel locks to try to turn it out. If you clean that area up you'll be better able to tell what's going on. The Jamb nut will require a pin spanner to remove. There are two pieces to this. The outer one is very thin and the holes can deform easily so be careful with it.

Here is an exploded view of a Fauber bottom bracket from the early 1900s: https://www.flickr.com/photos/32224799@N02/albums/72157667513626216/

Here is a Great Western bike that uses the fender stays you have pictured on yours. (Photo Courtesy of Alan Mayes)

 

[WillWork4Parts]

Sure enough, the thick dirt deposits fooled me! Picked out the edges and the BB notches are there, as well as 3 notches on each cup.

I can already tell the pin holes on the cone for the spanner are going to be a problem.

 

[WillWork4Parts]

Notches and headset confirm it as GWM then.

and yes, one fender tab appears original with one side broken off and bailing wired on while the lower tab appears fabricated.

I can't believe the adjusters are coming out!

 

[Iverider]

Sure enough, the thick dirt deposits fooled me! Picked out the edges and the BB notches are there, as well as 3 notches on each cup.

View attachment 2081712 I can already tell the pin holes on the cone for the spanner are going to be a problem.

I recommend using the proper pin spanner if can. I learned the hard way and used a punch. it deformed the outer locknut a little, and I was able to tap it back into place, but it could have been avoided by using the right tool.

 

[WillWork4Parts]

Has the notched and welded seatpost like I've seen in the GWM documents. Took a bit to get the seat tube pinch bolt out since the stay is completely detached there.

I now see why the notches are there in the frame!

Everything else was going as planned...until I got a look at the drive side cone...it was all chunked out and the threads were almost non-existent.

Someone had even swaged the drive pin onto the sprocket. Hopefully once I clean the cups, they're ok at least. The crank is definitely a wall hanger!!!

 

[WillWork4Parts]

Thanks for the help and encouraging words guys!

 

[Archie Sturmer]

I believe that GWM had a 1916 patent for the seat post made by stamping.

So, can you verify the threading on the cups, left-side left-hand, right-side right-hand?

Some Fauber cups may have had (13) otherwise loose bearings held in place by a thin split-ring retaining washer.

 

[WillWork4Parts]

I believe that GWM had a 1916 patent for the seat post made by stamping.

So, can you verify the threading on the cups, left-side left-hand, right-side right-hand?

Some Fauber cups may have had (13) otherwise loose bearings held in place by a thin split-ring retaining washer.

Yes, LH threads on the left, the bearings were held in with cages that had the pockets on the outer edge. Pretty sure someone else had been in there before me to replace and rig things back to a semi-working condition.