Schwinn Documentary ….No Hands

[SirMike1983]

The No Hands book was an entertaining read, but it freely mixed gossip and partial information so as to push a particular narrative. It seemed rather harsh on some of the management of the company in the later years, unduly so. I agree the choice of title for the documentary is a bit unfortunate. It would be nice if the film carved its own path, away from the baggage of the book. I'll give the film a chance. I do have a few concerns about accuracy based on what I have seen, but it's unfair to write it off without seeing it at least once.

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

The No Hands book was an entertaining read, but it freely mixed gossip and partial information so as to push a particular narrative. It seemed rather harsh on some of the management of the company in the later years, unduly so. I agree the choice of title for the documentary is a bit unfortunate. It would be nice if the film carved its own path, away from the baggage of the book. I'll give the film a chance. I do have a few concerns about accuracy based on what I have seen, but it's unfair to write it off without seeing it at least once.

Agreed, Let's review the movie after it comes out.

My concern is the closeness this movie has to a previous "tell all" book that was based on secondhand information because the key players at the time refused to be interviewed.

Only time will tell how much "new documented Schwinn history" they release.

John

 

[AS-1]

The No Hands book was an entertaining read, but it freely mixed gossip and partial information so as to push a particular narrative. It seemed rather harsh on some of the management of the company in the later years, unduly so. I agree the choice of title for the documentary is a bit unfortunate. It would be nice if the film carved its own path, away from the baggage of the book. I'll give the film a chance. I do have a few concerns about accuracy based on what I have seen, but it's unfair to write it off without seeing it at least once.

To my knowledge, not one single person has come forward to refute any of the information presented in the book. No other account has been written to correct an erroneous record. The book collected much of its information from person to person interviews with many of the primary characters who actively participated in the day to day events that led to the demise of a respected company. The balance of the information collected came from court records, accounting ledgers and other documents. The book had the full support of one of the most highly respected business publications in this country, Crain's Chicago Business, and large portions of the book were excerpts from its copyrighted articles on the subject which they published in 1993. Crain would have never exposed itself to the risks of printing and publishing libelous content. The book told the truth.

 

[Xlobsterman]

The No Hands book was an entertaining read, but it freely mixed gossip and partial information so as to push a particular narrative.

That sounds like a lot of the message threads in this forum! LOL

 

[SirMike1983]

That sounds like a lot of the message threads in this forum! LOL

I have a friend who half-jokingly defines an internet "forum" as a "self-corrupting database", which always makes me chuckle. Maybe a bit harsh at times, but some truth to it. People say what they say and I guess you give it the whatever weight you think it deserves. If you really want a fire, bring up black stingrays around here.

 

[Xlobsterman]

I have a friend who half-jokingly defines an internet "forum" as a "self-corrupting database", which always makes me chuckle. Maybe a bit harsh at times, but some truth to it. People say what they say and I guess you give it the whatever weight you think it deserves. If you really want a fire, bring up black stingrays around here.

YEP, there are a few topics that get a fire going around here. The Black Sting-Rays are one, and the "California Cruiser" seems to be another one! Neither of those bikes can be supported with any documentation from the Schwinn history books, but some people will defend certain examples of the bikes as being authentic factory produced examples, even when presented with strong logical theories on why they are not!

And it is even more hilarious that I have recently been restricted from posting in a thread about California Cruisers just because my opinion(s) and/or theories differ from the herd mentality on the topic!

 

[Freqman1]

I have a feeling that this will be one of those things that appeals more to the masses who have no clue. True bike nerds like us will pick it apart. Kind of reminds me of old soldiers watching a war movie and calling BS on every other scene.

 

[soddruntlestuntle]

Not sure I would completely agree with the "highly sourced, highly referenced" recommendation, for the No Hands Book.

The reason "not one of the key players has ever challenged" the No Hands Book is they did not want any part of it or the authors digging into their business and the Schwinn family. Most of the book's sources were from "B and C" level employees. I did not read any interviews from Edward Schwinn (P), or Richard Schwinn (VP), John Barker (Edwards "banker rep"), Ralph Murray COO, Mike McNamara (CFO), Byron Smith (product director), Ken Lesniack (national sales manager), Betty "Schwinn" Dembecki (Brownie's sister and headed the Schwinn family trust, Brownie's daughter Debbie "Schwinn" Bailey and lead the younger family trust members). These are the people that had knowledge of the inner workings and that made the business decisions that guided the Schwinn business. Even second tier employees that worked "outside of the Chicago building" like Al and Frank Durelli could have added key information. These are the key Schwinn people involved when the company collapsed; how many gave a "one on one" interview with the authors? At most they may have gotten a name mention.

How about adding George Garner the number one dealer in the nation to the list. A good addition to the list would have been Ray Burch, the former marketing VP, who was still alive and living in Rancho Bernardo at the time of the No Hands book.

The interviews in the book were from lower-level Schwinn employees that had just lost their employment. Heck, entire families lost their employment when Schwinn closed all of the operations. People were mad, upset, and had to make life choices. There was a "employee pride" at Schwinn Bicycle Company. This may sound weird, but the Schwinn employees showed more concern and pride for the company than the Schwinn Family Trust. The trust could care less about Bicycles, it was all about when the dividend payment would be mailed. It was the Schwinn Key Employees that ran the company, but the failure was the purse strings were controlled by the Family Trust, which knew nothing about the bicycle business.

How could any "good" documentary movie, or tell-all book not present "all the sides" of the story?

The No Hands Book is based on the best information they could scratch up, but it's mostly secondhand information. After 32 years to research, time to review, re-interview, make corrections, it looks like the movie will be the No Hands Book, WITH BACKGROUND MUSIC.

John.

Was about to buy a copy of No Hands, but after reading the comments here I'm having second thoughts; is there a good, honest biography of the company in circulation?

 

[AS-1]

Was about to buy a copy of No Hands, but after reading the comments here I'm having second thoughts; is there a good, honest biography of the company in circulation?

There is a possibility that all of the people who have made comments about the book haven't actually read it. Read it very closely and study the interactions and behaviors of the principal players. Pay particular attention to Tony Lo, Jerome Sze, John Barker and Nai-Wen Kiang. The book doesn't have an agenda. It simply explains the causes and effects which led to the death of an institution.

 

[Schwinn Sales West]

Was about to buy a copy of No Hands, but after reading the comments here I'm having second thoughts; is there a good, honest biography of the company in circulation?

If you have any interest in the history of the Schwinn Bicycle Company and the background of its business, you need to own a copy of No Hands for your library. It's unfortunate, but this is the most informative research effort so far, even after 32 years. It's just surprising that with today's love for the original Schwinn products, the amount of time CABE members scour the Schwinn catalogs, examine the old Schwinn products, no other group has taken on the project of analyzing the Schwinn Family Trust, Arnold, Schwinn and Company, Schwinn Bicycle Company, and Schwinn Cycling and Fitness. It was an American Icon Business that lasted almost a century and 32 years later no one has dug "deep" into it.

The faults with No Hands are not so much outright lies and untruths, but the lack of depth of research. If all of the key players were still alive today, they might have a different view on "telling their Schwinn Storey".

It's funny how No Hands credits Al Fritz as father of the Sting Ray, but the same people forget the mention who invented the Sting Ray Windshield, which was a flop. Al Fritz was one of the key Schwinn management people that pushed the Sting Ray concept along. You cannot talk about who was responsible for the Schwinn Sting Ray without mentioning Sig Mork. Sig and Al sold the idea to Ray Burch VP of marketing based on what was already happening in Southern California's Schwinn Dealerships. Sig was then a Schwinn Regional Manager and was in the shops every day, his ear was to the ground. The Sting ray was a product evolution "hand carried by Sig to Al Fritz Chicago". It was not a revolution in Al's mind. Al needs to be given full credit for jumping on the Fitness business which kept the Schwinn Company afloat for several additional years. The financial importance of the Fitness Business was many times greater to the Schwinn Bicycle Company than all of the Sting Rays ever sold.

Every Schwinn enthusiast needs to own or at least read No Hands. Just read it with the understanding that the research is pretty thin in some areas. The reason was the key employees did not choose to talk to the Crain reporters. Read it just like you read this forum, believe 50% of what you read, after you question if it's really true.

John